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New Dev Blog: Speed Rebalanced by Nozh

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 15 post(s)
Murina The Scope	Posted - 2008.07.25 14:46:00 - [421] Originally by: Lui Kai Firstly - CCP's already explained it in the dev blog. When a particular fitting style leads to being so strong that it's considered silly to do anything else, when 80% of pvp-folks fit a particular way, when entire alliances are built around that style of fitting - it's a tad bit overpowered, and something needs to change. Its used by 80% or more of the gangs in eve because its fun and removing it so two blobs can sit opposite each other and shoot until the one side with the most ships left over is considered the winner is not. If i spend 5 billion fitting out my hac for speed id expect it to be as fast as a ceptor that cost 20 mil including fittings, how the **** is that imbalance or overpowered?.
Borasatar	Posted - 2008.07.25 14:47:00 - [422] Originally by: Apertotes i am not against nerfing speed at all, but i want to ask a question. to achieve that ludicruous speed, a pilot needs to dedicate almost all of its low and rig slots to that goal, thus leaving almost no room for damage mods or tanking. No tanking mods are needed with ludicrous speed since you can't be hit. Quote: my question is, why didnt CCP provide a way for missile spammers or drone users to devote 5,6 or 9 slots to missile speed so that missiles also achieve that ludicruous speed? of course, this should also be possible with guns' tracking. Because such speeds cause problems with the game engine.
Astria Tiphareth Caldari 24th Imperial Crusade	Posted - 2008.07.25 14:48:00 - [423] Edited by: Astria Tiphareth on 25/07/2008 14:49:29 Originally by: KingCappo Originally by: Astria Tiphareth Originally by: KingCappo - small gang approaches blob - small gang engages blob - small gang turns on MWD to flee from blob - blob fires missiles at targets that have no speedtank and massive sig radius - blob kills small gang So explain to me again how this change preserves guerilla warfare? Explain to me why you feel you should be able to avoid committing to a fight when they changed WCS so those without lots of money couldn't? Guerilla warfare isn't about small gang facing down big blob. Read up on what it is. from: Originally by: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guerrilla_warfare Guerrilla warfare is the unconventional warfare and combat with which a small group of combatants use mobile tactics (ambushes, raids, etc.) to combat a larger and less mobile formal army. The guerrilla army uses ambush (draw enemy forces to terrain unsuited to them) and mobility (advantage and surprise) in attacking vulnerable targets in enemy territory. Please think before you post. I did, you are misreading. Nowhere will you find guerilla warfare applied directly force on force. That is what you are promoting. Note the very important line here: 'attacking vulnerable targets in enemy territory.'. Since when is a blob a vulnerable target? You are alleging that the Swedish navy can engage the US navy force on force and win because they can orbit them faster and run away. I think the US navy might disagree. On the other hand a small force can cause disruption and kill stragglers or vulnerable targets avoiding the main force. That is guerilla warfare. ___ My views may not represent those of my corporation or alliance, which is why I never get invited to those diplomatic parties...
KingCappo Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2008.07.25 14:48:00 - [424] Originally by: Borasatar No tanking mods are needed with ludicrous speed since you can't be hit. Speed is the tank.
Veldya Caldari Guristari Freedom Fighters	Posted - 2008.07.25 14:48:00 - [425] Originally by: Astria Tiphareth Edited by: Astria Tiphareth on 25/07/2008 14:38:29 Originally by: KingCappo - small gang approaches blob - small gang engages blob - small gang turns on MWD to flee from blob - blob fires missiles at targets that have no speedtank and massive sig radius - blob kills small gang So explain to me again how this change preserves guerilla warfare? Explain to me why you feel you should be able to avoid committing to a fight when they changed WCS so those without lots of money couldn't? Guerilla warfare isn't about small gang facing down big blob. Read up on what it is. "Boosters Although these arenÆt consumed a whole lot (D.A.R.E. at work?), we need to reduce the number of independent systems that affect maximum velocity. We propose to have the X-Instinct boosters cause a reduction in signature radius, rather than an increased base velocity." They will have mechanics to reduce signature radius and am sure they will tweak the base mechanics so it is not unreasonable. But, the days are soon to be numbered when you could just ignore any Caldari ship just because you can travel at a speed which renders all missiles ineffective.
Cutesmile	Posted - 2008.07.25 14:48:00 - [426] Originally by: KayO Originally by: Ikvar DO NOT RUIN BLASTER SHIPS! No, we need another Sci-fi mmo and leave this sinking boat.
Lorna Loot Caldari Nox Eternus	Posted - 2008.07.25 14:48:00 - [427] Originally by: Hoshino Rika the proble will be that the mwd bonus on deimos is loosing it importance >_> i now like the proposed change form half year ago >_> Its not just the Deimos, its most of the Gallente blaster ships. Sure we can fit an AB instead but the speed increase will be so much smaller a single web will slow you down to barely above none AB speed.
Bfoster Minmatar Rising Federation	Posted - 2008.07.25 14:48:00 - [428] Ok nerf web's? U do know the effective range of most T1 AC's is about 1400m right? So I am trying to shoot a frig with a AB that is webbed, but he is still getting out of range, because A.) I have AB and I am still slower than him in my BC or Crusier and B.) I have MWD to catch him but he is scramming me and my MWD is dead.. But my Web is doing nothing to him cause it is nerfed.. Although u did nerf the speed's of ships, but he is still faster... So basicly he can get out of range of both my web and my scrammer if he wants at any time?
Typhado3 Minmatar Ashen Lion Mining and Production Consortium Axiom Empire	Posted - 2008.07.25 14:48:00 - [429] I don't nano I don't like nano's and I think they needed a nerf... but I like minmatar ships and we seem to betting a lot of love from the nerf bat lately. One thing that ****es me off is why ccp are intent on giving our ew bonuses too the marauders and then making them better at it than our ships... we only have target painters and webs and your making marauders the better webber and giving our target painters to the golem. minmatar ew is beyond poor, it doesn't really exist. Instead of giving minmatar ew you give us tacklers (huggin etc.) and token target painters which can be used by anyone easily and are pretty useless all round. So if the minmatar specialization is completely speed/tackle at the cost of no ew and average other areas why do you keep creating ships that make our specialization useless? with bubbles, hactors, interceptors, marauders being as good or better at tackling than the average minmatar ship what is our race gonna be useful for anymore? Seriously I love this nerf as it will stop the ludicrous speeds but you need to give minmatar a few boosts or bring back one of our old racial strengths (alpha strikes pretty please). Typhado
Grarr Dexx Amarr Naval Protection Corp Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2008.07.25 14:49:00 - [430] Originally by: Lorna Loot Originally by: Astria Tiphareth Guerilla warfare isn't about small gang facing down big blob. Read up on what it is. Lol are you stupid? That is exactly what guerilla warfare is. So small gang meets large gang and now dies instead of being able to run away? How does this not make sense?

Riho Gallente Mercenary Forces	Posted - 2008.07.25 14:49:00 - [431] Edited by: Riho on 25/07/2008 14:50:06 Originally by: Ikvar DO NOT RUIN BLASTER SHIPS! ---------------------------------- Fighting for Minmatar o7 Yes... this is my main. Extreme Troll Slayer...
THRASHER23 Gallente Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2008.07.25 14:49:00 - [432] Originally by: Lorna Loot Originally by: Highpriest Sylvia Originally by: Lorna Loot I love the way all the shit alliances and the alts are the ones supporting this. Oh and thanks, almost every blaster ship is now pretty useless. Warp in, target is 10km away. MWD towards them, webbed, scrammed and MWD deactivates.... Sit at 8km. Die. Because Gallente needed nerfing again. oh because your corp/ally is so great? deal with the incoming changes or don't, either way I don't care! If you don't care then what you doing replying? I can deal with speed reducing but killing off an entire race is shit Lets see now, blaster boats. Domi, Mega, Hype, Astarte, Kronos, Eos, Brutix, Myrm, Phobos, Deimos, Thorax, Vexor, Taranis. All will have issues ever reaching their targets against another gang due to having their MWD's off-line all the time. what do you mean? Fit an afterburner on the boat and no worries. There is no CONUNDRUM with solving that problem. For death and glory
KingCappo Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2008.07.25 14:50:00 - [433] Originally by: Astria Tiphareth Note the very important line here: 'attacking vulnerable targets in enemy territory.'. Since when is a blob a vulnerable target? The are vulnerable because they are slow. Ambush is about attacking a larger force, picking off a few targets, then retreating. Its not about taking on the entire body of the enemy fleet.
A Sinner Logical Progression	Posted - 2008.07.25 14:50:00 - [434] Originally by: Cutesmile Originally by: KayO Originally by: Ikvar DO NOT RUIN BLASTER SHIPS! ----------------------- "There are no ugly women, just men who didn't have enough to drink"
Stab Wounds Caldari	Posted - 2008.07.25 14:50:00 - [435] Originally by: KayO Originally by: Ikvar BLASTER SHIPS ARE NOW BALANCED.
MirrorGod Heretic Militia	Posted - 2008.07.25 14:51:00 - [436] LEAVE NANO'S ALONE! :crocker: Recruitment: [ANTI]
rgreat Gallente OEG Red Alliance	Posted - 2008.07.25 14:51:00 - [437] Originally by: Astria Tiphareth Guerilla warfare isn't about small gang facing down big blob. Read up on what it is. And why not? You want to make the only way to counter big blob by even bigger blob? Say hello to even greater lag monster then. Also there are no fun in blobs. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Shadowsword COLSUP Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2008.07.25 14:51:00 - [438] Originally by: Lorna Loot Originally by: Astria Tiphareth Guerilla warfare isn't about small gang facing down big blob. Read up on what it is. Lol are you stupid? That is exactly what guerilla warfare is. You are stupid. Guerilla warfare is about hitting where the enemy isn't in strength. It's NOT a frontal charge against overwhelming numbers. ------------------------------------------
Zikka Hematite Rose Bionic Dawn	Posted - 2008.07.25 14:51:00 - [439] Originally by: Riho Originally by: Zikka Originally by: Odre Echee Has anyone else noticed? Pro-change : apparently does this out of spite, "lol tears sweet", "lol serves you right" Anti-change : apparently finds time to explain why it's a bad idea. That's because pro-change have been arguing for something like this and making the case very well for the past 6 months. There is nothing more to add, the case has been made. lol.. show me a proper thread ... all i have seen for the last year is...."whaaaaaaaa i got killed by nanoz.... nerf nerf nerf because im to stupid to think and adapt" http://eve-tribune.com/index.php?no=3_29&page=3 http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=597162 http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=798420 There are a few to get you started. It's beside the point though, as even if you haven't seen the arguments and understood them it is quite clear that the devs have.
Saint Lucifer The Illuminati.	Posted - 2008.07.25 14:51:00 - [440] I think a fair few people are over reacting slightly, its not like all nano hacs are going to suddenly be nerfed to 1k/s, and getting a battleship gang out of a bubble isnt going to be much different from before.. it would take a shitload of tacklers to catch a significant number before they got out of any (now slightly smaller) bubble. However i agree that one or two of these changes would be preferable to all of them. Such a reduction of webber effecitveness simply screws everybody over, and unless it is combined with some sort of range boost, it is a foolish change to make. I also think the scrambler deactivating mwds is a bit stupid... you're basically nerfing webs and then adding a new, different type of web, once again limiting the amount of midslots many people have for a shield tank or regular EW. Essentially you are making what we know as a web now, into a web requiring two midslots. There wouldnt be much difference in simply using two webs, apart from it working on those people who start using AfterBurners instead of MWDs. Its quite hard to see how things will unfold until we all play it on the test server. Although the whole thing seems a little unneccessary (as was previously quoted, people should just learn to use neuts or train for nano countering ships), i welcome the change if it introduce a wider spectrum of viable ship setups and tactics. What i would hate to see is for people to all suddenly start using one or two types of ship setup after the changes. (cerb+falcon fleets ftw?) Finally, all those guys who are like OMGZ ARAZU BUFF, you're pretty stupid. Its basically like being able to stick a shitty web on something at 15-20km... once you've done that, congratulations, if you engaged anybody with half a brain you'll be dead because the arazu sucks at everything.

Lorna Loot Caldari Nox Eternus	Posted - 2008.07.25 14:52:00 - [441] Originally by: THRASHER23 Originally by: Lorna Loot Originally by: Highpriest Sylvia Originally by: Lorna Loot I love the way all the shit alliances and the alts are the ones supporting this. Oh and thanks, almost every blaster ship is now pretty useless. Warp in, target is 10km away. MWD towards them, webbed, scrammed and MWD deactivates.... Sit at 8km. Die. Because Gallente needed nerfing again. oh because your corp/ally is so great? deal with the incoming changes or don't, either way I don't care! If you don't care then what you doing replying? I can deal with speed reducing but killing off an entire race is shit Lets see now, blaster boats. Domi, Mega, Hype, Astarte, Kronos, Eos, Brutix, Myrm, Phobos, Deimos, Thorax, Vexor, Taranis. All will have issues ever reaching their targets against another gang due to having their MWD's off-line all the time. what do you mean? Fit an afterburner on the boat and no worries. There is no CONUNDRUM with solving that problem. AB + web = slightly above standard none AB speed. But it doesn't matter I'm sure my armour rigged ships will be able to c........ wait no they wont. Dont worry.
Zikka Hematite Rose Bionic Dawn	Posted - 2008.07.25 14:53:00 - [442] Originally by: Myra2007 I have a question that may sound a little stupid: would these warp scramblers still warp scramble? So will the shutdown of mwds be an additional feature or a substitution for the current +2 warp scrambling ability? The blog definitely implies they will as one of the examples is of a ship fitting a single scrambler instead of both a disrupter and a web. (Stealth nerf for people short on mid slots!)
whisk The Scope	Posted - 2008.07.25 14:53:00 - [443] Originally by: Murina Originally by: Lui Kai Firstly - CCP's already explained it in the dev blog. When a particular fitting style leads to being so strong that it's considered silly to do anything else, when 80% of pvp-folks fit a particular way, when entire alliances are built around that style of fitting - it's a tad bit overpowered, and something needs to change. Its used by 80% or more of the gangs in eve because its fun and removing it so two blobs can sit opposite each other and shoot until the one side with the most ships left over is considered the winner is not. If i spend 5 billion fitting out my hac for speed id expect it to be as fast as a ceptor that cost 20 mil including fittings, how the **** is that imbalance or overpowered?. owned
Borasatar	Posted - 2008.07.25 14:54:00 - [444] Originally by: Ruoska May the age of nanowhoring finally come to end :) ...however, your goals state that gorillawarfare should remain viable, and speed has been alarmingly large factor in that, yet the blog makes no mention on how this will be made up for that kind of fighting. I demand gorillawarfare buffs! So... that's like a chestbeating mod and banana guns?
Cpt Cosmic	Posted - 2008.07.25 14:54:00 - [445] warp scrambler disabling mwd sux, if ccp does this, it should not stop ship from warping, I mean it is not like every ship has 7 mids for MWD/AB/DISRUPTOR/SCRAM/WEB/CAP BOOSTER/WEB because this will be all mandatory for pvp then and it will cripple some ships even more like erm, Assault ships. adjusting speeds would be enough but this is just crazy.
Lorna Loot Caldari Nox Eternus	Posted - 2008.07.25 14:54:00 - [446] Edited by: Lorna Loot on 25/07/2008 14:54:35 Originally by: Stab Wounds I AM IN IDIOT AND SHOULD STOP POSTING ABOUT THINGS I DON'T UNDERSTAND There, I fixed that for you.
walterwheasle	Posted - 2008.07.25 14:54:00 - [447] Edited by: walterwheasle on 25/07/2008 14:55:20 Personally if this goes ahead u will loose my 4 accounts straight away, to make it worse my nav skills and cybernetics 5 for snakes become useless can u give me time back.

CCP Nozh C C P	Posted - 2008.07.25 14:55:00 - [448] Answering a few common questions: Do WCS counter the Warp Scramblers ability to disable MWD's? - No, not in our current implementation. We've thought about it, but as is, they don't. Do Warp Scramblers still disable your warp drive? - Yupp. Will my MWD be affected by Bubbles? - No, it won't. Close range tracking, blasters, webbies, etc. - Disabling the MWD + -60% speed reduction is far more effective than the old -90% webifier. This of course only applies to MWD targets. Afterburner targets will be less vulnerable to close range damage dealing ships, but that's part of the change, the verity. Smaller faster moving targets will have a better chance of evading death, but I'm sure drones on blaster boats will come in handy here. We're also considering on removing the stacking penalty from stasis webifiers, but that really comes down to testing. We'll keep a close eye on this when it hits SISI. Specialized webifing & MWD ships have dated bonsues. - We'll keep a close eye on these ships once the changes hit SISI. Death to small roaming gangs - Small roaming gangs existed long before polycarbon engine housings and snake sets. Sure we're reducing the maximum speed achievable but you'll still be able to go a lot faster than a standard MWD fit with various speed mods.

Hul'ka Minmatar MicroFunks	Posted - 2008.07.25 14:55:00 - [449] Originally by: SetInEdill CCP, minmatars ships after this fix will be trash. Can you change all minmatar-profile skills to galent-profile skills? well, our ships are ment to look like they are made of trash.. maybe they just bringing them in line with their inteded "feels and looks" also, i second your profile skills change, but i would like amarr skils.. --------- I want to phew phew
Big Al Stoat's Ultimate Carebear Adventure	Posted - 2008.07.25 14:55:00 - [450] Originally by: Ikoras the nano nerf i can understand to a certain extent. The mods and rigs aren't the problem. The problem lies in the implants and command ship bonuses added to it. Snakes are overpowered. WTS 1 overpowered maxed claymore pilot.



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