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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 15 post(s) |
Astria Tiphareth
Caldari
24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2008.07.25 14:37:00 -
[391]
 Originally by: THRASHER23
"For those of you who consider yourself to be Speedy Gonzales and enjoy travelling in Ludicrous speed this blog may come as a bit of a shock."
Next time you want feed back on a controversial nerf that you obviously are bias to try not to come off so condescending.
You call that condescending? You spent much time on these forums? Believe me that's polite and pleasant and businesslike. If you want condescending it can be arranged.
Originally by: THRASHER23
Anyway your nerf here seems to advocate a way of gaming that your servers are not able to efficiently support, blobage. And how exactly is guerilla warfare suppose to be a viable tactic if speed is nerfed? It's a FACT that if want to have a chance at winning against an overwhelming larger enemy, smaller and faster is the way to go. This nerf if an obvious contradiction to your goal to keep guerrilla warfare a useful tactic.
Small and fast guerilla warfare is a useful tactic and doesn't need nano-ships to do it. It's just a matter of what you do and how you do it. Over in Factional Warfare, those of us outnumbered on the Amarr side have had no choice but to use it, and we're not using nano-ships. Since when did we prohibit thinking outside the status quo in EVE?
I would agree laggy blobs aren't the way to go, but that's virtually impossible to fix because people always flock together, it's natural.
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My views may not represent those of my corporation or alliance, which is why I never get invited to those diplomatic parties... |
Cutesmile
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Posted - 2008.07.25 14:37:00 -
[392]
Originally by: Hoshino Rika
hmm most of poeple dont see that the MWD will be affected only by scramblers, the 7.5km ones >_> vagas still orbit at 20 >_>
Really ? An Arazu can scrambling to 22500m with domi scrambler. Now the CCP will killing lot of minamatar ship.
U try to use a Hyena or Matar recons with 50% str. webs.
Ridiculous. 5000 m/s will slow to 1250 m/s.
Another crap balancing, which will make unuseable many shiptypes. (Vagabond,hyena,rapier,huginn) Long live the Caldari CP.
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Lui Kai
Perkone
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Posted - 2008.07.25 14:37:00 -
[393]
Originally by: Odre Echee
Has anyone else noticed?
Pro-change : apparently does this out of spite, "lol tears sweet", "lol serves you right"
Anti-change : apparently finds time to explain why it's a bad idea.
Disclaimer - I'm a mission running carebear. This change has no effect on me, one way or the naught.
I think the reason you're not seeing a lot of "explination" on the pro-change side is fairly obvious.
Firstly - CCP's already explained it in the dev blog. When a particular fitting style leads to being so strong that it's considered silly to do anything else, when 80% of pvp-folks fit a particular way, when entire alliances are built around that style of fitting - it's a tad bit overpowered, and something needs to change.
Secondly - fail tears are f-in hillarious, and spite is fun.
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Ambulation Answers
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Hoshino Rika
Caldari
GBTeam
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Posted - 2008.07.25 14:37:00 -
[394]
Originally by: Pushtan
Originally by: Chaeidras
Arazus don't get a bonus to warp scrams ...
''Recon Ships Skill Bonus: 20% bonus to warp disruptor range and -96% to -100% reduction in Cloaking Device CPU use per level''
just because it says DISRUPTOR doesnt mean it only applies to them....lurk moar/play the game/etc etc
tested on lachesis. 16km scram on t2 scrambler
"Wellcome to Rivendell... Mr Anderson"
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rgreat
Gallente
OEG
Red Alliance
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Posted - 2008.07.25 14:37:00 -
[395]
Originally by: BuIIseye
Carebear Raven Pilot > help i lost another raven ganked by a vagabond
CCP > roger, nerfing them
Seriously CCP, i don't even fly nanoships, yet i see this nerf affecting everyone.
 Arazu/Lachesis will be way better than Rapier/Huginn.
Missile boats get a stealth boost, because missiles don't need tracking (Drake's/Cerb's/Raven's + Arazu's combo is the new FOTM for medium sized gangs).
Solo Pvp becomes ever more harder because, now, a solo shortrange fitted battleship moves ever more slower, you need a tackler (can't call that solo pvp anymore now can I).
Encourages blobbing even more as people that used to travel alone, or roam, now go with bigger gangs to be safer.
Jumping into bubble camps are now signing your death warrent, even with superior tactics or firepower, you end up dieing to a much inferior defender, increaseing the already stupid ammout of whines about titans and cynojammers.
People will go back to chokepoint camping instead of roaming since it's much more comfortable and easy.
Basicaly EVE becomes slower and boreing.
Don't get me wrong thou, I can understand the need to nerf ships with ludicrous speeds, but can't it be done just by adding stack penalty's to mwd + speed modules/snake implants/gang bonus's and replacing the effect of the X-Instinct Booster to sig radius reduction. The scrambler boost is also a nice thing but it shouldn't affect battleships in my opinion, the stack nerf should be enough to make sure battleships never pass the 1.5km/s which is enough to bypass interdictor or mobile disruptor fields.
So instead of nerfing stuff that didn't needed it, just to be on the safe side, how about dedicating more time to figuring ways of discouraging blobs, in a way that actually works.
This man know what he talking about.
+1.
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Richard Angevian
The Crusaders.
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Posted - 2008.07.25 14:38:00 -
[396]
Originally by: Deva Blackfire
Originally by: Species 3758
Don't you mix sth up here? warp scrams are the close range ones, arazus don't get a bonus on warp scrams only disruptors
they get to both
Which is my biggest objection in the proposed changes. That is WAY WAY too much power to give to a single module, it's so overpowered that you are going to see them literally every single engagement on every sort of ship.
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Ezekiel Sulastin
Gallente
Central Research Nexus
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Posted - 2008.07.25 14:38:00 -
[397]
Hi, I'm a Thorax, just trying to get into range of the enemy before dying ... oh damn did my MWD just get shut off 24 km from the enemy? Surely I can make it in with an AB ... oh wait 500 m/s, I'm dead, especially when I hit web range. And I haven't even considered the rest of the crap.
ARE YOU OUT OF YOUR DAMN SKULL, CCP?
This isn't a nanoship nerf, this is yet another screw shortrange, i.e. Gallente, nerf. Remove your head from your hindquarters and think about the whole damn gamge.
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WTB Armor Nerf Hardener II, 10^100 isk OBO |
ApaKaka
Lone Starr Corporation
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Posted - 2008.07.25 14:38:00 -
[398]
Edited by: ApaKaka on 25/07/2008 14:40:31
Originally by: Hoshino Rika
Originally by: Lorna Loot
Actually, get a gellente recon, scram range is 20-30Km
Additionally yeah, vagas orbit at 20km, doing what 100DPS max?
Lrn2play.
Scramble not distupt. True sansha warp scrambler-> 10km, 100% bonus with Galente recon V -> 20km warp disruptor II - 24km
learn to orbit at 20100metres?
As far as I know, recons also give bonus to warp scramblers, could be a mispelling in the info, been known to happen.
Also CCP is boosting the scrambler range from lowest 7.5km to highest 15 km in the same patch.
TBH, this isn't even about nano-hacs and stuff. I like what the other guy said about MWD's INTENDED USAGE, which is a short speed burst. That should have been what they concentrated on, because it's just as important for big BS fleets to get a short burst to reapproach gates or tackle quickly to use MWD.
Just nerf MWDs and add an activation delay and problem solved, no more perma MWD "haha you can't touch me" gangs.
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Archetype02
Gallente
Comply Or Die
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Posted - 2008.07.25 14:38:00 -
[399]
Edited by: Archetype02 on 25/07/2008 14:41:13
Nano's do not need more countermeasures..
http://www.eve-tribune.com/index.php?no=3_9&page=1
instead fix drone orbit speed.
reduce missile hit ration and increase missile speed.
i have a thousand other suggestions i can make to make life a little harder for us nano's i would never EVER vouch for any of these.
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Astria Tiphareth
Caldari
24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2008.07.25 14:38:00 -
[400]
Edited by: Astria Tiphareth on 25/07/2008 14:38:29
Originally by: KingCappo
- small gang approaches blob
- small gang engages blob
- small gang turns on MWD to flee from blob
- blob fires missiles at targets that have no speedtank and massive sig radius
- blob kills small gang
So explain to me again how this change preserves guerilla warfare?
Explain to me why you feel you should be able to avoid committing to a fight when they changed WCS so those without lots of money couldn't?
Guerilla warfare isn't about small gang facing down big blob. Read up on what it is.
___
My views may not represent those of my corporation or alliance, which is why I never get invited to those diplomatic parties... |
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Veldya
Caldari
Guristari Freedom Fighters
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Posted - 2008.07.25 14:39:00 -
[401]
Originally by: BuIIseye
Missile boats get a stealth boost, because missiles don't need tracking (Drake's/Cerb's/Raven's + Arazu's combo is the new FOTM for medium sized gangs).
Yeah, because hitting nano ships with rockets and light missiles for 0 damage doesn't need fixing, does it? Missiles didn't need a stealth boost, they needed a loud freaking bandwagon boost.
Missile damage is reduced based on speed and target painters don't really help because they don't address the speed element while you have more options to improve the tracking difficulties.
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silken mouth
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Posted - 2008.07.25 14:39:00 -
[402]
some suggestions here
posted before knowing about the new dev blog...
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Malena Panic
Veto.
Veto Corp
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Posted - 2008.07.25 14:40:00 -
[403]
Originally by: Tob'ias Sjodin
Except there will be an arazu at every gatecamp now making you dead in the water. ^^
Oh please, server + module lag means you will always get at least one MWD pulse, which will get you back to the gate or let you coast out of bubble range - and more importantly out of the Zoo's anemic 15km scram range.
Change is good, the sky isn't falling, and PvPers will still dominate the weekend warriors.
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Crumplecorn
Gallente
Eve Cluster Explorations
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Posted - 2008.07.25 14:40:00 -
[404]
Originally by: Ikvar
DO NOT RUIN BLASTER SHIPS!
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DesuSigs |
Lorna Loot
Caldari
Nox Eternus
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Posted - 2008.07.25 14:40:00 -
[405]
Originally by: Astria Tiphareth
Guerilla warfare isn't about small gang facing down big blob. Read up on what it is.
Lol are you stupid? That is exactly what guerilla warfare is.
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BlackHorizon
Caldari
Dark Knights of Deneb
Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2008.07.25 14:40:00 -
[406]
Love this change CCP and Nozh. <3
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Riho
Gallente
Mercenary Forces
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Posted - 2008.07.25 14:41:00 -
[407]
Originally by: Astria Tiphareth
Originally by: Riho
lol.. show me a proper thread ... all i have seen for the last year is...."whaaaaaaaa i got killed by nanoz.... nerf nerf nerf because im to stupid to think and adapt"
Strange, all I've seen is 'wahhhhh I can't kill anything unless I nano and am too stupid to try something else'.
i dont fly nano anymore.... i solo around in blaster ships and other type of tanked/plated ships.
this hurts me as much as the nano ppl.
and yes i USED to nano alot... but cba anymore
----------------------------------
Fighting for Minmatar o7
Yes... this is my main.
Extreme Troll Slayer...
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Hoshino Rika
Caldari
GBTeam
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Posted - 2008.07.25 14:41:00 -
[408]
Originally by: Ezekiel Sulastin
Hi, I'm a Thorax, just trying to get into range of the enemy before dying ... oh damn did my MWD just get shut off 24 km from the enemy? Surely I can make it in with an AB ... oh wait 500 m/s, I'm dead, especially when I hit web range. And I haven't even considered the rest of the crap.
ARE YOU OUT OF YOUR DAMN SKULL, CCP?
This isn't a nanoship nerf, this is yet another screw shortrange, i.e. Gallente, nerf. Remove your head from your hindquarters and think about the whole damn gamge.
heh your mewd omn rax shut down 7.5km from target, excep for domination fited arazu with skill V which shut down at 22kms, still, still fit domination disruptor and you get 28km >_>and i dont believe lot of people will fit scrablers >_> still distu and web looks more effective
"Wellcome to Rivendell... Mr Anderson"
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Crumplecorn
Gallente
Eve Cluster Explorations
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Posted - 2008.07.25 14:42:00 -
[409]
Edited by: Crumplecorn on 25/07/2008 14:42:02
Originally by: Richard Angevian
Which is my biggest objection in the proposed changes. That is WAY WAY too much power to give to a single module, it's so overpowered that you are going to see them literally every single engagement on every sort of ship.
The irony is that part of this rebalance is supposed to be about getting rid of 'must have' modules.
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DesuSigs |
Astria Tiphareth
Caldari
24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2008.07.25 14:42:00 -
[410]
Originally by: Odre Echee
Has anyone else noticed?
Pro-change : apparently does this out of spite, "lol tears sweet", "lol serves you right"
Anti-change : apparently finds time to explain why it's a bad idea.
Rubbish. People have spent months explaining why nano's cause problems, even nano-pilots themselves, but those against the notion of losing their massive advantage in the ability to run away have spent the entire time going 'la-la-la it's working fine, adapt, learn to play' and I think understandably everyone else is now saying 'hah, now it's your turn to adapt you arrogant asses'. Whilst somewhat childish, it's perfectly human.
___
My views may not represent those of my corporation or alliance, which is why I never get invited to those diplomatic parties... |
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Pushtan
Ministry of Destruction
Southern Cross Alliance
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Posted - 2008.07.25 14:44:00 -
[411]
Originally by: Ezekiel Sulastin
Hi, I'm a Thorax, just trying to get into range of the enemy before dying ... oh damn did my MWD just get shut off 24 km from the enemy? Surely I can make it in with an AB ... oh wait 500 m/s, I'm dead, especially when I hit web range. And I haven't even considered the rest of the crap.
ARE YOU OUT OF YOUR DAMN SKULL, CCP?
This isn't a nanoship nerf, this is yet another screw shortrange, i.e. Gallente, nerf. Remove your head from your hindquarters and think about the whole damn gamge.
lrn2read
SCRAMS NOT DISRUPTORS...Jesus..
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Crazdale
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Posted - 2008.07.25 14:44:00 -
[412]
I'm glad to hear the dev's are addressin' these problems and changes are underway. It has always seemed wrong to have one or two classes (ship types) in a game be able to completely ravage all they come across without anyone else standing a fair chance.
Well, I'm sure those out there with no skill who rely on these cheap speed tactics are gonna be complaining, but IMO, I feel this is a great move and hopefully will restore more of a balance to PvP. As the dev says, each ship should have a speed which is suitable for the size and type of ship to be able to play its part.
Also, it's about time webs got a nerf! 90% really did take away all your options once caught... ;-/
Great job CCP!
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Astria Tiphareth
Caldari
24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2008.07.25 14:44:00 -
[413]
Originally by: Riho
Originally by: Astria Tiphareth
Originally by: Riho
lol.. show me a proper thread ... all i have seen for the last year is...."whaaaaaaaa i got killed by nanoz.... nerf nerf nerf because im to stupid to think and adapt"
Strange, all I've seen is 'wahhhhh I can't kill anything unless I nano and am too stupid to try something else'.
i dont fly nano anymore.... i solo around in blaster ships and other type of tanked/plated ships.
this hurts me as much as the nano ppl.
and yes i USED to nano alot... but cba anymore
Didn't say it applied to you personally; I echoed my alternate view of noticing a trend. If you're taking offence, you're either subconsciously aware that you might have been wrong, or reading far too much into what I posted.
___
My views may not represent those of my corporation or alliance, which is why I never get invited to those diplomatic parties... |
Trojanman190
D00M.
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.07.25 14:44:00 -
[414]
Wow this is awful. Eve is becoming more about numbers numbers numbers every single day. Why couldn't you guys introduce something good, you know, like a boost instead of completely changing a style of gameplay that a core player base has come to rely on to keep us safe from blobs and play the game that we pay for?
A lot of us don't have the numbers to try to blob / brute force all the time.... + it's not fun at all.
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Sid Zero
Perkone
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Posted - 2008.07.25 14:44:00 -
[415]
Originally by: Ikvar
DO NOT RUIN BLASTER SHIPS!
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KingCappo
Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2008.07.25 14:44:00 -
[416]
Originally by: Astria Tiphareth
Originally by: KingCappo
- small gang approaches blob
- small gang engages blob
- small gang turns on MWD to flee from blob
- blob fires missiles at targets that have no speedtank and massive sig radius
- blob kills small gang
So explain to me again how this change preserves guerilla warfare?
Explain to me why you feel you should be able to avoid committing to a fight when they changed WCS so those without lots of money couldn't?
Guerilla warfare isn't about small gang facing down big blob. Read up on what it is.
from:
Originally by: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guerrilla_warfare
Guerrilla warfare is the unconventional warfare and combat with which a small group of combatants use mobile tactics (ambushes, raids, etc.) to combat a larger and less mobile formal army. The guerrilla army uses ambush (draw enemy forces to terrain unsuited to them) and mobility (advantage and surprise) in attacking vulnerable targets in enemy territory.
Please think before you post.
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Hoshino Rika
Caldari
GBTeam
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Posted - 2008.07.25 14:44:00 -
[417]
the proble will be that the mwd bonus on deimos is loosing it importance >_> i now like the proposed change form half year ago >_>
"Wellcome to Rivendell... Mr Anderson"
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KayO
Rionnag Alba
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.07.25 14:45:00 -
[418]
Originally by: Ikvar
DO NOT RUIN BLASTER SHIPS!
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Astria Tiphareth
Caldari
24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2008.07.25 14:46:00 -
[419]
Originally by: Crumplecorn
Edited by: Crumplecorn on 25/07/2008 14:42:02
Originally by: Richard Angevian
Which is my biggest objection in the proposed changes. That is WAY WAY too much power to give to a single module, it's so overpowered that you are going to see them literally every single engagement on every sort of ship.
The irony is that part of this rebalance is supposed to be about getting rid of 'must have' modules.
You're not thinking outside the box. A warp scrambler will have zero effect on an afterburner. Propose that ABs get a small increase if you feel they're too slow.
___
My views may not represent those of my corporation or alliance, which is why I never get invited to those diplomatic parties... |
Korinn
The Illuminati.
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.07.25 14:46:00 -
[420]
Originally by: Ikoras
The mods and rigs aren't the problem. The problem lies in the implants and command ship bonuses added to it. Snakes are overpowered. but they also cost a whole lot of isk.
I can see where you're coming from, but as someone whos flown a claymore pretty much solidly for the last 3/4 of a year, I disagree with you about the gang bonuses.
It is indeed a big boost, and doesn't cost much compared to buying a snake set, but it also comes with its own set of issues which don't affect implant sets at all:
- Skills - Gang bonuses really only come into their own once you have the mindlink; which needs cybernetics, the basic and the warfare spec skills to 5, along with being able to fly command ships in the first place. Since most characters get rolled with relatively low charisma nowadays, sorting a character out to provide gang mod bonuses is generally a 6+ month job (add to that wing command 4 at minimum for any decent fleet)
- Fleet Bonus System - If you're in a fleet providing bonuses as wing commander, you _must_ have at least (in system with you) a squad commander with leadership 5 before either of you receive the bonuses, and both wing commander and squad commander must be in the same system as you (if you're a squad member) to receive the bonuses. If your gang gets at all split up (eg. by fighting both sides of a gate camp) your gang bonuses are useless.
- Ship - The gang mods rely on a single ship staying alive; in a nanogang, it is very likely that the claymore itself is the slowest ship in the gang BY FAR, meaning it's the most likely to get caught and die and you lose your gang bonuses.
- Gang Mods - They dont work in warp. Jesus christ, if there's 1 thing I wish CCP would fix it's making them work in warp. They already have a load of downsides and the fact that you can't have them on 85% of the time while you're roaming is pretty damn frustrating (eg. someone needs your gang bonuses to survive and you're still in warp because you're the fattest, slowest ship in the gang )
Basically my point is - all that snakes require, is a lot of isk. Gang mods require a shitload of training time, a load of ballache, and rely on your beloved claymore pilot not dying (this in itself is difficult given the fact it's the most likely to get caught by a big gatecamp).
There is still (I'd guess at least) relatively few max specced claymore pilots in the game, and it is still a very niche role; just off the top of my head I can think of only 3-4 claymore pilots (of the 650 in PL) who use it regularly, including myself.
I don't think it's fair to nerf gang mods (speed gang mods only) given their generally limited use (they are a specialized tool after all) and the fact they suffer from the problems listed above, when a HG snake set can be bought & paid for, suffers from none of the problems and gives you a bigger speed bonus.
Also what's stopping say... a big blob of battleships (like the ones we usually fight in nanos) from fitting their own gang mods for web range, armour / shield resists and the like? If one side has the option, why doesn't the other?
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