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New Dev Blog: Speed Rebalanced by Nozh

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 15 post(s)
Kerfira University of Caille	Posted - 2008.07.25 22:39:00 - [1351] Edited by: Kerfira on 25/07/2008 22:44:06 Originally by: Cerui Tarshiel Ok, now I'm going to call you out on this, do you actually pvp and use those things? A) not every ship has missile launcher hardpoints nor is there much of an incentive to fit one even if there is b) defenders just don't work and even if they did they are not going to shoot down 7 missiles from a drake, 5 missiles from a cerb or whatever. Of.c. I don't use defenders Neither does anyone else afaik. I don't use TD's either even though I can. Same reason: They're in general useless compared to other things in the slots they use. Guerilla warfare is perfectly feasible with non-nano'ed ships. However, next to no risk guerilla warfare isn't. It shouldn't be either, no matter how much ISK you spend! Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
J Kunjeh Gallente	Posted - 2008.07.25 22:39:00 - [1352] Man, the amount of nerd-rage in this thread is just ridiculous. Where's the love for CCP? Have they not generally made excellent game design decisions when it comes to Eve? Have they not made a brilliant game that we all love? I mean please, do you think they don't have a deep understanding of the mechanics in Eve? The problems, the things that work perfectly, etc? Remember, they're not just developers, they're also every bit the dedicated players the rest of us are. Give them the benefit of the doubt, provide constructive criticism and not just nerd-rage, test out the changes in SiSi, and then provide more constructive feedback. They want Eve to be as good as the rest of us do. Help them, don't just ***** and threaten to quit!
Ephemeron Retribution Corp.	Posted - 2008.07.25 22:40:00 - [1353] So far nobody has emphasized the lack of data mining results from EVE database. EVE database is full of information on who is flying what ship, who's using snakes and other implants, how many people use boosters. EVE records combat kills and losses, recording setups used on dead ships. There is a huge amount of information available that can be data mined for useful conclusions. Why do we need it? Consider the statement: "nano-Ishtar's flying at 3500 m/s are completely overpowered and broken!" What exactly does it mean? Without any additional information, we can only base our judgement of that statement on personal experience. People with different experience will disagree on that statement. There seems to be no way to tell who's wrong or right.. but there is a way! EVE database has the answers. It may not have clear cut answers to that particular statement, but it can provide solid foundations on which to rely on. We CAN know how many nano-Ishtars are out there, we can know how many people they "pwn" and how many (or few) of them end up dying because of their "invulnerability". We can find out just how well this speed invulnerability argument holds up in practice. We can also find out the costs involved in ships destroyed. We can learn how much damage in isk a 4 billion nanoship causes to other players before it is destroyed. We can compare the costs. We can compare the ship numbers. From all that data, we can work out a set of facts and based on them we can guide our judgements on specific issues, such as "the nanoships are broken". People could interpret the facts in different ways, the is no clear cut logic, but at least it will be based on something solid. CCP, if you are going to do something this drastic, at least dignify us with some real data analysis.
OVERCOPES 1 Amarr Amarr Secret Service	Posted - 2008.07.25 22:40:00 - [1354] I find it amusing that all the people that are crying foul of these changes are the likes of pandemic legion,EXCEED AMD TRI. They have made there name from this broken game mechanic and are now bleating like stuffed pigs about it getting BALANCED. Good move CCP dont sway on this one. Technolisa>those yellow things work better than platinum insurance :P
Trojanman190 D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.07.25 22:41:00 - [1355] Originally by: VoiceInTheDesert Nanos are nerfed....and they're not even dead (since webs got nerfed as well), but nano pilots are sill whining. Nano is still a viable option IMO. Just not as good as before (read "best"). The nerf and changes should make this game more interesting. Any of those pilots who are claiming that this will become "drakes online" have obviously been in their nano ships so long that they their minds fell out in mid-warp somewhere (running away from a fight no doubt). Or running from dudes like you who only come out when you out number us 10 to 1. Sure, you stick around for that fight. We routinely jump into gangs larger than us only to have larger gangs of assorted battle cruisers and battleships and cruisers bugger the hell out leaving one or two alliance mates to die without a fight.
Markas Crais House of Dying Laggers	Posted - 2008.07.25 22:41:00 - [1356] Originally by: Velvet69 Originally by: DeadDuck I believe that DEVS know how the game is played, ...... How can you say that after a dev posted this ? o/ Velve That's so amazing lol.
Straife North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2008.07.25 22:42:00 - [1357] Originally by: OVERCOPES 1 I find it amusing that all the people that are crying foul of these changes are the likes of pandemic legion,EXCEED AMD TRI. They have made there name from this broken game mechanic and are now bleating like stuffed pigs about it getting BALANCED. Good move CCP dont sway on this one. Yet we will still be better than you will ever dream, even after we change (or don't change since 90% of our ships only use a MWD as our sole speed mod).
GateScout	Posted - 2008.07.25 22:42:00 - [1358] All in all, not too bad.... Personally, I would have liked to see a more gradual approach... I would have liked to see a range increase in webs...to something like 25-30km. That would still allow nanos to disengage, but without crushing speed mods... Staking penalty...is great..and needed.
Tomic The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2008.07.25 22:43:00 - [1359] Originally by: OVERCOPES 1 I find it amusing that all the people that are crying foul of these changes are the likes of pandemic legion,EXCEED AMD TRI. They enjoy themselves using this perfectly acceptable game mechanic and are now bleating like stuffed pigs about it getting BALANCED. Good move CCP. fixed for ya
Markas Crais House of Dying Laggers	Posted - 2008.07.25 22:43:00 - [1360] Originally by: OVERCOPES 1 I find it amusing that all the people that are crying foul of these changes are the likes of pandemic legion,EXCEED AMD TRI. They have made there name from this broken game mechanic and are now bleating like stuffed pigs about it getting BALANCED. Good move CCP dont sway on this one. And the fact that the large alliances who blob are going "good job". Go figure.
RDevz GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.07.25 22:44:00 - [1361] Adapt or die. Cry some more. Would you like a tissue? [Insert demeaning catchphrase that was used when torps/drones/nos/ECM was nerfed here]. The tears. Keep them coming. It's so wonderful to watch.
Ksea Vholdor	Posted - 2008.07.25 22:46:00 - [1362] Originally by: The Mach Edited by: The Mach on 25/07/2008 16:07:38 CCP, no offensebut..... you kinda missed the water when you fell out of the nano ship. hahahaha, made my day so true ...
Viper ShizzIe The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2008.07.25 22:46:00 - [1363] Originally by: OVERCOPES 1 I find it amusing that all the people that are crying foul of these changes are the likes of pandemic legion,EXCEED AMD TRI. They have made there name from this broken game mechanic and are now bleating like stuffed pigs about it getting BALANCED. Good move CCP dont sway on this one. I agree with this poster.
Markas Crais House of Dying Laggers	Posted - 2008.07.25 22:48:00 - [1364] Edited by: Markas Crais on 25/07/2008 22:49:47 Originally by: Markas Crais Originally by: OVERCOPES 1 I find it amusing that all the people that are crying foul of these changes are the likes of pandemic legion,EXCEED AMD TRI. They have made there name from this broken game mechanic and are now bleating like stuffed pigs about it getting BALANCED. Good move CCP dont sway on this one. And the fact that the large alliances who blob are going "good job". Go figure. Originally by: RDevz Adapt or die. Cry some more. Would you like a tissue? [Insert demeaning catchphrase that was used when torps/drones/nos/ECM was nerfed here]. The tears. Keep them coming. It's so wonderful to watch. ^ thanks for proving my point. It was even better that a Goon proved it.
Tomic The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2008.07.25 22:49:00 - [1365] Originally by: Militis Kolosok As an inty pilot, I fail 95% of the time :) fixed for ya
Ituralde Stimulus	Posted - 2008.07.25 22:49:00 - [1366] Originally by: OVERCOPES 1 I find it amusing that all the people that are crying foul of these changes are the likes of pandemic legion,EXCEED AMD TRI. They have made there name from this broken game mechanic and are now bleating like stuffed pigs about it getting BALANCED. Good move CCP dont sway on this one. Care to explain how nanos were broken? _____________________________ Fear is the mind-killer.
Omega Bloodstone Battlestars GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.07.25 22:50:00 - [1367] Whats everyone going on about? I'll focus on matar pvp with relying on my superior weapon tracking, dps, and amazing slot layouts for tanking If CCP has learned anything from nerfing it is that they are terrible at it. Work on the servers... How is speed a factor in 5 minute grid loads? Work on the servers... Skirmish is a screwed concept now? I thought it was the better form of pvp in EVE. Anything larger then a skirmish fleet fight is lagtacular. Work on the servers... Eve game mechanics and servers "best tackler in Eve". Work on the servers... Moral to the story, stop trying to think CCP, it doesn't work out like you intend. Hire someone to fix your hardware, let the ships do their thing. If someone wants to invest in a Capital ship's value in implants to go fast, screw it, let em, its the price of a Capital class ship. Oh, and please don't turn the Arazu into a Arazurapier, there wont be any room for the rapier if an Arazu effectively webs harder then a rapier sporting a 50% web, scrams, and effects targeting...tisk tisk...
Hul'ka Minmatar MicroFunks	Posted - 2008.07.25 22:51:00 - [1368] Originally by: Asero Originally by: Sakura Nihil So, since I can't get on SISI until that patch deploys, help me out here. Say a max-skilled Vagabond, with 2 speed rigs and 3 lowslot speed modules. 10MN MWD II, with say the 10% bonus from gangskills and baseline no implants or hardwirings in - what would I get? i actually get 5,654m/s with 2 polycarbs(t1 ofc) 2 overdrives and 1 nano. thats with hac5 and accel control 4. is it bad that i beat the dev fit by 1500m/s at 1/40th the cost? đ /me pats on the shoulder... I know m8, i know.. --------- I want to phew phew
Nemesor Gallente Stimulus	Posted - 2008.07.25 22:52:00 - [1369] Originally by: RDevz Adapt or die. Cry some more. Would you like a tissue? [Insert demeaning catchphrase that was used when torps/drones/nos/ECM was nerfed here]. The tears. Keep them coming. It's so wonderful to watch. Blobbers love the nano-nerf. Small gang people hate it. Case and point in the quoted post above. CCP, please don't make all these changes. It will effect Matari ships like your last BIG nerf hit the Lachesis. Seriously, it is that bad.
sophisticatedlimabean Gallente Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2008.07.25 22:53:00 - [1370] Originally by: Ituralde Originally by: OVERCOPES 1 I find it amusing that all the people that are crying foul of these changes are the likes of pandemic legion,EXCEED AMD TRI. They have made there name from this broken game mechanic and are now bleating like stuffed pigs about it getting BALANCED. Good move CCP dont sway on this one. Care to explain how nanos were broken? If you spent 6 bil on implants and mods then fitted them to a hac you could go as fast as a t2 fitted interceptor and drake pilots could not solo kill you. My views may reflect those of my corp/alliance, but if you wanna know for sure ask em for gods sake.
Kerfira University of Caille	Posted - 2008.07.25 22:53:00 - [1371] Originally by: Omega Bloodstone Whats everyone going on about? I'll focus on matar pvp with relying on my superior weapon tracking, dps, and amazing slot layouts for tanking If CCP has learned anything from nerfing it is that they are terrible at it. Work on the servers... How is speed a factor in 5 minute grid loads? Work on the servers... Skirmish is a screwed concept now? I thought it was the better form of pvp in EVE. Anything larger then a skirmish fleet fight is lagtacular. Work on the servers... Eve game mechanics and servers "best tackler in Eve". Work on the servers... Lag only really became a major issue after a certain alliance made it their tactic to outblob their opponents..... Makes your post deliciously ironic Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
Kerfira University of Caille	Posted - 2008.07.25 22:56:00 - [1372] Edited by: Kerfira on 25/07/2008 22:56:57 Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean If you spent 6 bil on implants and mods then fitted them to a hac you could go as fast as a t2 fitted interceptor and drake pilots could not solo kill you. So basically you're arguing that ISK should buy you I-Win buttons? Strangely enough, your alliance has always been an outspoken opponent of people with ISK having titans and caps.... I think I read the terms 'I-Win' and 'ISK' quite a lot from your guys in various discussions. Ironic, isn't it? EDIT: Damn. Thread is slowing down. 3 minutes without a post! Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
Ituralde Stimulus	Posted - 2008.07.25 22:56:00 - [1373] From: The Blog Quote: Speed must never reach ludicrous speed, which is defined as speeds where missiles and drones don't intercept the class of ship they were intended for. Basically, this is an argument that speed tanking should not be viable. And that is a faulty premise from the start. _____________________________ Fear is the mind-killer.
Malachon Draco eXceed Inc. eXceed.	Posted - 2008.07.25 22:58:00 - [1374] Originally by: Kerfira Originally by: Omega Bloodstone Whats everyone going on about? I'll focus on matar pvp with relying on my superior weapon tracking, dps, and amazing slot layouts for tanking If CCP has learned anything from nerfing it is that they are terrible at it. Work on the servers... How is speed a factor in 5 minute grid loads? Work on the servers... Skirmish is a screwed concept now? I thought it was the better form of pvp in EVE. Anything larger then a skirmish fleet fight is lagtacular. Work on the servers... Eve game mechanics and servers "best tackler in Eve". Work on the servers... Lag only really became a major issue after a certain alliance made it their tactic to outblob their opponents..... Makes your post deliciously ironic Yah, BoB/ASCN in EC- was pretty pathetic, I agree.
Markas Crais House of Dying Laggers	Posted - 2008.07.25 22:58:00 - [1375] Originally by: Kerfira Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean If you spent 6 bil on implants and mods then fitted them to a hac you could go as fast as a t2 fitted interceptor and drake pilots could not solo kill you. So basically you're arguing that ISK should buy you I-Win buttons? Strangely enough, your alliance has always been an outspoken opponent of people with ISK having titans and caps.... I think I read the terms 'I-Win' and 'ISK' quite a lot from your guys in various discussions. Ironic, isn't it? Like I've mentioned before. What's the point in making isk and pvping if you don't plan on outspending your opponent on better ships/mods to give you an advantage?
Ituralde Stimulus	Posted - 2008.07.25 22:58:00 - [1376] Originally by: Kerfira Edited by: Kerfira on 25/07/2008 22:56:57 Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean If you spent 6 bil on implants and mods then fitted them to a hac you could go as fast as a t2 fitted interceptor and drake pilots could not solo kill you. So basically you're arguing that ISK should buy you I-Win buttons? Strangely enough, your alliance has always been an outspoken opponent of people with ISK having titans and caps.... I think I read the terms 'I-Win' and 'ISK' quite a lot from your guys in various discussions. Ironic, isn't it? EDIT: Damn. Thread is slowing down. 3 minutes without a post! Wait, how does nanoing a ship make in an I-win button? Please explain. _____________________________ Fear is the mind-killer.
Omega Bloodstone Battlestars GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.07.25 22:59:00 - [1377] Edited by: Omega Bloodstone on 25/07/2008 22:59:13 Originally by: Kerfira Originally by: Omega Bloodstone Whats everyone going on about? I'll focus on matar pvp with relying on my superior weapon tracking, dps, and amazing slot layouts for tanking If CCP has learned anything from nerfing it is that they are terrible at it. Work on the servers... How is speed a factor in 5 minute grid loads? Work on the servers... Skirmish is a screwed concept now? I thought it was the better form of pvp in EVE. Anything larger then a skirmish fleet fight is lagtacular. Work on the servers... Eve game mechanics and servers "best tackler in Eve". Work on the servers... Lag only really became a major issue after a certain alliance made it their tactic to outblob their opponents..... Makes your post deliciously ironic Your post is deliciously rediculous giving the fact that 120 (60 v 60) ships in local lags the system to hell and back. Its not a matter of blobbing, its lagging before there is a real blob to lag it.
Tomic The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2008.07.25 22:59:00 - [1378] Originally by: Kerfira Lag only really became a major issue after a certain alliance made it their tactic to outblob their opponents..... Makes your post deliciously ironic Funny, a lot of alliances have been out blobbing their opponents since before goons were even around. Afaik bob invented the B(l)OB
sophisticatedlimabean Gallente Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2008.07.25 22:59:00 - [1379] Edited by: sophisticatedlimabean on 25/07/2008 23:01:24 Originally by: Kerfira Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean If you spent 6 bil on implants and mods then fitted them to a hac you could go as fast as a t2 fitted interceptor and drake pilots could not solo kill you. The fact is that most pvpers fly nano ships because its great fun and adds levels of skill to the game that sitting opposite another fleet and plugging away like morons until one side runs out of ships will never achieve. Who the hell do ccp think they are to remove a fun but harmless form of pvp from the game that many ppl enjoy. So basically you're arguing that ISK should buy you I-Win buttons? Strangely enough, your alliance has always been an outspoken opponent of people with ISK having titans and caps.... I think I read the terms 'I-Win' and 'ISK' quite a lot from your guys in various discussions. Ironic, isn't it? EDIT: Damn. Thread is slowing down. 3 minutes without a post! Nano is not a i-win button its a i have a lot of fun style of pvp instead of a turkey shoot thats eventually decided by who has the most ships to begin with and so has some left at the end of the battle. My views may reflect those of my corp/alliance, but if you wanna know for sure ask em for gods sake.
Malachon Draco eXceed Inc. eXceed.	Posted - 2008.07.25 23:01:00 - [1380] Originally by: Kerfira Edited by: Kerfira on 25/07/2008 22:56:57 Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean If you spent 6 bil on implants and mods then fitted them to a hac you could go as fast as a t2 fitted interceptor and drake pilots could not solo kill you. So basically you're arguing that ISK should buy you I-Win buttons? Strangely enough, your alliance has always been an outspoken opponent of people with ISK having titans and caps.... I think I read the terms 'I-Win' and 'ISK' quite a lot from your guys in various discussions. Ironic, isn't it? EDIT: Damn. Thread is slowing down. 3 minutes without a post! Nerfing I win buttons is always good. I don't think anyone complains about a reduction in speed for the 25kms interceptor or even the 15kms vagabond. But why does a 4-5kms HAC need to be nerfed? They are certainly killable, even a simple T2 fitted ceptor can chase them down easily. But it does generally require some planning and thought to kill a nanogang doing 5kms. Having been in those nanogangs, there are enough opponents who can take on a nanogang like that.

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