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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 15 post(s) |
Mashie Saldana
Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams
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Posted - 2008.07.26 20:32:00 -
[2101]
For those of you against this change, I'm curious how you would kill the following little gang using 12 ships:
3 x 6km/s Rapiers 3 x 6km/s Curses 3 x 6km/s Ishtars 3 x Falcons
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DefJam101
Gallente Aliastra
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Posted - 2008.07.26 20:32:00 -
[2102]
Originally by: Destiny Calling Edited by: Destiny Calling on 27/12/2006 14:40:19 edited for simplicity your idea is bad |
Pinkranger
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Posted - 2008.07.26 20:36:00 -
[2103]
Originally by: Mashie Saldana For those of you against this change, I'm curious how you would kill the following little gang using 12 ships:
3 x 6km/s Rapiers 3 x 6km/s Curses 3 x 6km/s Ishtars 3 x Falcons
1 by 1
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techzer0
Minmatar Mafia
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Posted - 2008.07.26 20:42:00 -
[2104]
Originally by: Mashie Saldana For those of you against this change, I'm curious how you would kill the following little gang using 12 ships:
3 x 6km/s Rapiers 3 x 6km/s Curses 3 x 6km/s Ishtars 3 x Falcons
Fit ECCM and snipe the falcons. Smartbomb the drones.
Not even all that hard... ------------ CCP > Let's play the nerf a race game! Next up minmatar! |
Cutesmile
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Posted - 2008.07.26 20:45:00 -
[2105]
Originally by: Cailais
Originally by: Tobias Sjodin I wonder if Nozh expected 80+ pages of criticism.
Oh it'll easily hit the 160 mark. Mind you I think about half of it is just random mud slinging between alliances, and the rest is about 50/50 split in favour/against.
C.
See it the petitions: 25/75%
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Archetype02
Gallente Comply Or Die
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Posted - 2008.07.26 20:46:00 -
[2106]
Originally by: Mashie Saldana For those of you against this change, I'm curious how you would kill the following little gang using 12 ships:
3 x 6km/s Rapiers 3 x 6km/s Curses 3 x 6km/s Ishtars 3 x Falcons
wait 6k ishtars ? what polycarb II's ishtars? lol.. i dont see any CS so im scrapping CS bonuses.. he must be using 3 billion in snakes too.. or overheating. wich wont last him long..
common nano ishtars travel at 3.8km/sec get your facts straight
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Zadren Radek
Gallente Ghost in the Machine Tygris Alliance
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Posted - 2008.07.26 20:48:00 -
[2107]
Nice to see something being done to tone down the speed. But the nerfs may be a little too extensive.
From a purely personal perspective, I see big problems with the likes of the Blasterthron, Hyperion and Deimos. These ships NEED a functioning MWD to be able to close to combat range quickly, and the low tracking on blasters is going to make the reduction in web effectiveness even more painful.
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Mashie Saldana
Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams
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Posted - 2008.07.26 21:00:00 -
[2108]
Originally by: techzer0 Fit ECCM and snipe the falcons. Smartbomb the drones.
Not even all that hard...
You have succesfully reduced some of their dps and EW, still 9 ships left to tackle and kill.
Originally by: Archetype02
wait 6k ishtars ? what polycarb II's ishtars? lol.. i dont see any CS so im scrapping CS bonuses.. he must be using 3 billion in snakes too.. or overheating. wich wont last him long..
common nano ishtars travel at 3.8km/sec get your facts straight
True, typo there, should be 5k/s ishtars.
CS is off grid so all you have to deal with are those 12.
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
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Posted - 2008.07.26 21:02:00 -
[2109]
Edited by: MotherMoon on 26/07/2008 21:05:35
Originally by: Haakelen
Originally by: MotherMoon
so going 45,000 m/s isn't overpowered or game breaking?
What ****ing ship in this game can go 45,000m/s? A completely maxed out, snaked, mindlinked claymore boosted gistii a-type t2 poly rigged stiletto overheating the MWD? You are throwing around strawmen like the ****** you are. That does not apply to 99.9% of situations in this game, and you know it.
no duh it doesn't, didn't you read the blog?
Quote: Speed must never reach ludicrous speed, which is defined as speeds where missiles and drones don't intercept the class of ship they were intended for.
also more importantly a cruiser shouldn't be an interceptor.
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Nas Xafat
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Posted - 2008.07.26 21:03:00 -
[2110]
I WILL CANCEL MY 2 ACCOUNTS IF THAT STUPID PATCH BECOMES REALLITY
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Smokie McLottapot
Caldari Keepers Of The Gate
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Posted - 2008.07.26 21:06:00 -
[2111]
Originally by: Mashie Saldana
Originally by: techzer0 Fit ECCM and snipe the falcons. Smartbomb the drones.
Not even all that hard...
You have succesfully reduced some of their dps and EW, still 9 ships left to tackle and kill.
Originally by: Archetype02
wait 6k ishtars ? what polycarb II's ishtars? lol.. i dont see any CS so im scrapping CS bonuses.. he must be using 3 billion in snakes too.. or overheating. wich wont last him long..
common nano ishtars travel at 3.8km/sec get your facts straight
True, typo there, should be 5k/s ishtars.
CS is off grid so all you have to deal with are those 12.
OHHHH so theres a CS now?? Lemme guess, when you get proven wrong again theres a nano-titan that decloaks right??? RIGHT???
Oh no nano-titan, it already popped
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Otellus
Imperial Shipment
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Posted - 2008.07.26 21:06:00 -
[2112]
Edited by: Otellus on 26/07/2008 21:08:18 Edited by: Otellus on 26/07/2008 21:07:41
Originally by: Mashie Saldana For those of you against this change, I'm curious how you would kill the following little gang using 12 ships:
3 x 6km/s Rapiers 3 x 6km/s Curses 3 x 6km/s Ishtars 3 x Falcons
3 tanked scimitars. 3 damage fitted muninns with a shield tank 3 scorpions 3 ceptors to web anything coming close.
All ships stay close together to get reps from the scimitars. Muninns snipe the drones of the ishtars, scorpions (or other EWAR specced ships) keep the falcons at bay. Once you killed the drones the nanogang has to flee because they have the DPS of a wet paper bag. Anyone getting primaried but not repped quickly enough can warp out because the rapiers wont be scrambling anyone since that would make them get too close to the ceptors who would web them so the muninns would wipe them out. In fact, any gang could just warp out from your nanogang right away if they so choose since there is no real tackling ability there.
Tactics are very simple. EWAR the nasty nanoships, ceptors screen your fleet but stay close so anyone trying to web them needs to get close and gets killed. Its easy to drive a nanogang off beyond scrambling range so you can warp out when you get under heavy fire. Ishtars, always shoot the drones and ignore the ships. Once the drones are dead, Ishtars are expensive paperweights.
Most common mistake is sending ceptors directly at the nanogang, so they then get webbed and killed in short order by the nanofleet.
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Smokie McLottapot
Caldari Keepers Of The Gate
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Posted - 2008.07.26 21:12:00 -
[2113]
Originally by: MotherMoon Edited by: MotherMoon on 26/07/2008 21:06:52 Edited by: MotherMoon on 26/07/2008 21:05:35
Originally by: Haakelen
Originally by: MotherMoon
so going 45,000 m/s isn't overpowered or game breaking?
What ****ing ship in this game can go 45,000m/s? A completely maxed out, snaked, mindlinked claymore boosted gistii a-type t2 poly rigged stiletto overheating the MWD? You are throwing around strawmen like the ****** you are. That does not apply to 99.9% of situations in this game, and you know it.
no duh it doesn't, didn't you read the blog?
Quote: Speed must never reach ludicrous speed, which is defined as speeds where missiles and drones don't intercept the class of ship they were intended for.
also more importantly a cruiser shouldn't be an interceptor.
Quote: Combining all of the above with a faction MWD results in as much as an eightfold increase in speed over what a vessel can reach with a normal tech2 MWD. If one then takes a look at the max velocity on missiles and drones, it is readily apparent that our combat system was never designed for such speeds.
Well we know 2 things about you, you fly in a blob and don't have enough balls to post with your main.
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Brzhk
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Posted - 2008.07.26 21:16:00 -
[2114]
to all the 'new blob era prophets':
today, it's just getting a bigger nano blob than the other.
Is this what you call skirmish warfare?
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Mioelnir
Minmatar Meltd0wn Atrum Tempestas Foedus
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Posted - 2008.07.26 21:18:00 -
[2115]
Edited by: Mioelnir on 26/07/2008 21:18:57 @Otellus: He's talking about killing, not driving off. Driving off a tackler is fine in a fleet fight, since it keeps him from doing his job, but killing is something else.
Constructive criticism at the dev department: at least make the 7.5km scram use scripts. no script = 10km, 1 point warpcore destabilistation amplifier script = 7.5km, 2 points local warpfield inversion script = 7.5km, disables MWD
OR
undo the scripts for Sensor Boosters, Tracking Computers etc. Because after all, you know, 2 distinct bonuses from one module is overpowered.
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Smokie McLottapot
Caldari Keepers Of The Gate
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Posted - 2008.07.26 21:20:00 -
[2116]
Originally by: Brzhk to all the 'new blob era prophets':
today, it's just getting a bigger nano blob than the other.
Is this what you call skirmish warfare?
No, apperently "skirmish warfare" means bring the bigger blob. Now I totally understand FW, train the noobs to blob.
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DelboyTrotter
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Posted - 2008.07.26 21:23:00 -
[2117]
Originally by: Z3r0n
Imo CCP is trying to nerf the speeds on EVERYTHING because thex want to reduce the speed of all ships.... that sorta makes sense wouldn't you agree? I really don't see the problem... CCP said their engine is broken when the speeds go above "ludicrous" level so they try and scale all the speeds down a bit. I don't understand why everyone is whining so much just because all ships are going slower including nanos, missile boats, blaster boats and even haulers with an MWD... so instead of charging a BS flying 1,3km/s in your blaster boat doing 3km/s you now will charge him flying 2,2km/s but he will also only be able to fly 800m/s so you will still catch up.
The problem is that they are not changing the speed of missiles and drones along with the speeds of the ships, and that most minmatar ships only advantage currently of ships of the same class is speed, or in the case of the recons, the ability to stop ships speed and target paint (lol).
If they reduced the effect of missiles and drones somehow, like rail and projectile guns have to deal with tracking, optimals, and faloffs, and gave minmatar ships some other benefit other than speed, I would be perfectly happy to accept their changes.
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Joakim Wasyl
Caldari Perkone
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Posted - 2008.07.26 21:24:00 -
[2118]
Nano vagabond still looks viable ?, 4Km/s is fast enough to take almost no damage from drones / light missiles.
Of course, my main just finished training for am Ishtar, which may be a (cough) *little* (cough) compromised.
Ho hum.
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Kretin Arnon
Amarr Path of the Immortals
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Posted - 2008.07.26 21:25:00 -
[2119]
Originally by: Otellus Edited by: Otellus on 26/07/2008 21:08:18 Edited by: Otellus on 26/07/2008 21:07:41
Originally by: Mashie Saldana For those of you against this change, I'm curious how you would kill the following little gang using 12 ships:
3 x 6km/s Rapiers 3 x 6km/s Curses 3 x 6km/s Ishtars 3 x Falcons
3 tanked scimitars. 3 damage fitted muninns with a shield tank 3 scorpions 3 ceptors to web anything coming close.
All ships stay close together to get reps from the scimitars. Muninns snipe the drones of the ishtars, scorpions (or other EWAR specced ships) keep the falcons at bay. Once you killed the drones the nanogang has to flee because they have the DPS of a wet paper bag. Anyone getting primaried but not repped quickly enough can warp out because the rapiers wont be scrambling anyone since that would make them get too close to the ceptors who would web them so the muninns would wipe them out. In fact, any gang could just warp out from your nanogang right away if they so choose since there is no real tackling ability there.
Tactics are very simple. EWAR the nasty nanoships, ceptors screen your fleet but stay close so anyone trying to web them needs to get close and gets killed. Its easy to drive a nanogang off beyond scrambling range so you can warp out when you get under heavy fire. Ishtars, always shoot the drones and ignore the ships. Once the drones are dead, Ishtars are expensive paperweights.
Most common mistake is sending ceptors directly at the nanogang, so they then get webbed and killed in short order by the nanofleet.
You don't find it a bit odd that your "success" criteria depends on if your ships stand a chance of surviving the nano fleets attack without a loss, and not on how well your chance of annihilating the nano fleet? +--------------------------+ For now I sleep and watch |
DefJam101
Gallente Aliastra
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Posted - 2008.07.26 21:28:00 -
[2120]
Originally by: Kretin Arnon
Originally by: Otellus Edited by: Otellus on 26/07/2008 21:08:18 Edited by: Otellus on 26/07/2008 21:07:41
Originally by: Mashie Saldana For those of you against this change, I'm curious how you would kill the following little gang using 12 ships:
3 x 6km/s Rapiers 3 x 6km/s Curses 3 x 6km/s Ishtars 3 x Falcons
3 tanked scimitars. 3 damage fitted muninns with a shield tank 3 scorpions 3 ceptors to web anything coming close.
All ships stay close together to get reps from the scimitars. Muninns snipe the drones of the ishtars, scorpions (or other EWAR specced ships) keep the falcons at bay. Once you killed the drones the nanogang has to flee because they have the DPS of a wet paper bag. Anyone getting primaried but not repped quickly enough can warp out because the rapiers wont be scrambling anyone since that would make them get too close to the ceptors who would web them so the muninns would wipe them out. In fact, any gang could just warp out from your nanogang right away if they so choose since there is no real tackling ability there.
Tactics are very simple. EWAR the nasty nanoships, ceptors screen your fleet but stay close so anyone trying to web them needs to get close and gets killed. Its easy to drive a nanogang off beyond scrambling range so you can warp out when you get under heavy fire. Ishtars, always shoot the drones and ignore the ships. Once the drones are dead, Ishtars are expensive paperweights.
Most common mistake is sending ceptors directly at the nanogang, so they then get webbed and killed in short order by the nanofleet.
You don't find it a bit odd that your "success" criteria depends on if your ships stand a chance of surviving the nano fleets attack without a loss, and not on how well your chance of annihilating the nano fleet?
This.
Originally by: Destiny Calling Edited by: Destiny Calling on 27/12/2006 14:40:19 edited for simplicity your idea is bad |
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Matrix Skye
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.07.26 21:29:00 -
[2121]
The nano ho's defense:
"If you can't catch and kill nanos it's because you're an idiot and you suck! Now don't take my precious nano away because I don't want to die! But YOU are the cowards anyway!"
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Smokie McLottapot
Caldari Keepers Of The Gate
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Posted - 2008.07.26 21:30:00 -
[2122]
Oh and nevermind the impact this will have on the eve markets. Angel rats are now worthless as salvage. Good luck for those running minnie missions as half of your lp store is now worthless. Oh and lets not forget the hugin/rapier builders, who now find themself with one of the most usless products in the game.
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Tobias Lee
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.07.26 21:31:00 -
[2123]
Why not just give any nano module a lock range penalty similar to the current warp core stab penalty but per module ie overdrive 1 penalty polycarb 2 penalties. Still means u can nano for travel but not for pvp.
From speaking to people in channel the only disrupter that stops an mwd are the short range around 10km ones. How many ceptor pilots or hac pilots for that matter fight at that range? urrrr none cause they like to stay out of web nos and neut range.If your gonna make disrupters turn off an mwd at least make it the 20km ones:)
Nano gangs are laughing at these changes as we speak cause all your doing is making it easier for em by nerfing webs? why? dont make sense. even if you make the ships slower but still nanoable all the nanos will do is switch hams for heavies and fly long range ishtars and still carrying on running away.
On the flip side people might think oh well we cant nano so lets urrrrm blob yeah great jump into system and die in a blob battle before your overview even loads epic fail :P
Oh yeah on a final note i do fly a vaga but mine does 4km a sec not 12km and i can fly alot of stuff that aint nano but i dont wanna b trying to pvp in 600 man blob gangs , may as well right click and self destruct cause thats about all i will b able to achieve with the extremely laggy servers.
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Malachon Draco
eXceed Inc. eXceed.
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Posted - 2008.07.26 21:31:00 -
[2124]
Originally by: DefJam101
Originally by: Kretin Arnon
Originally by: Otellus Edited by: Otellus on 26/07/2008 21:08:18 Edited by: Otellus on 26/07/2008 21:07:41
Originally by: Mashie Saldana For those of you against this change, I'm curious how you would kill the following little gang using 12 ships:
3 x 6km/s Rapiers 3 x 6km/s Curses 3 x 6km/s Ishtars 3 x Falcons
3 tanked scimitars. 3 damage fitted muninns with a shield tank 3 scorpions 3 ceptors to web anything coming close.
All ships stay close together to get reps from the scimitars. Muninns snipe the drones of the ishtars, scorpions (or other EWAR specced ships) keep the falcons at bay. Once you killed the drones the nanogang has to flee because they have the DPS of a wet paper bag. Anyone getting primaried but not repped quickly enough can warp out because the rapiers wont be scrambling anyone since that would make them get too close to the ceptors who would web them so the muninns would wipe them out. In fact, any gang could just warp out from your nanogang right away if they so choose since there is no real tackling ability there.
Tactics are very simple. EWAR the nasty nanoships, ceptors screen your fleet but stay close so anyone trying to web them needs to get close and gets killed. Its easy to drive a nanogang off beyond scrambling range so you can warp out when you get under heavy fire. Ishtars, always shoot the drones and ignore the ships. Once the drones are dead, Ishtars are expensive paperweights.
Most common mistake is sending ceptors directly at the nanogang, so they then get webbed and killed in short order by the nanofleet.
You don't find it a bit odd that your "success" criteria depends on if your ships stand a chance of surviving the nano fleets attack without a loss, and not on how well your chance of annihilating the nano fleet?
This.
Not at all. Since your nanofleet is incapable of killing anyone except for a lone ratter, for which a single vagabond, or perhaps a vaga and a falcon are sufficient, why would I set a higher standard needed for the fleet to counter it.
If I follow your line of thought, single force recons and covops and interceptors really need to be nerfed to hell. Because, tell me, what could ever hope to kill a crow who doesn't want to get killed. He can run back to gates at infinitum or warp around safespots. You would not catch him in a million years. For covops and force recons that can warp cloaked, the best you could ever hope for is driving them off if they don't want to get caught.
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Smokie McLottapot
Caldari Keepers Of The Gate
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Posted - 2008.07.26 21:32:00 -
[2125]
Originally by: Matrix Skye The nano ho's defense:
"If you can't catch and kill nanos it's because you're an idiot and you suck! Now don't take my precious nano away because I don't want to die! But YOU are the cowards anyway!"
Maybe it's "Your taking away the only viable anti-blob tactic in game" thing that some don't like? And once again, post with your main Mr. Nutless
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Malachon Draco
eXceed Inc. eXceed.
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Posted - 2008.07.26 21:32:00 -
[2126]
Oh, Otellus is me. My computer seems to decide on a case by case basis which character I am gonna post with it this time.
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sophisticatedlimabean
Gallente Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.07.26 21:34:00 -
[2127]
Originally by: Mashie Saldana For those of you against this change, I'm curious how you would kill the following little gang using 12 ships:
3 x 6km/s Rapiers 3 x 6km/s Curses 3 x 6km/s Ishtars 3 x Falcons
This sort of question is posed by paper tigers and proves nothing tbh cos if those ships are piloted by morons they will be ineffectual while a highly skilled gang of fewer ships could kick there butts.
The fact is that it in a lot if not all cases of gang fights it comes down to individual pilot skill, the skill and effectiveness off how each of the gangs work together and even a little luck for the jammers as falcons can be quite hard to jam.
My views may reflect those of my corp/alliance, but if you wanna know for sure ask em for gods sake. |
DefJam101
Gallente Aliastra
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Posted - 2008.07.26 21:37:00 -
[2128]
Originally by: Malachon Draco Not at all. Since your nanofleet is incapable of killing anyone except for a lone ratter,
Originally by: Destiny Calling Edited by: Destiny Calling on 27/12/2006 14:40:19 edited for simplicity your idea is bad |
Motaka
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.07.26 21:43:00 -
[2129]
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean
Originally by: Mashie Saldana For those of you against this change, I'm curious how you would kill the following little gang using 12 ships:
3 x 6km/s Rapiers 3 x 6km/s Curses 3 x 6km/s Ishtars 3 x Falcons
This sort of question is posed by paper tigers and proves nothing tbh cos if those ships are piloted by morons they will be ineffectual while a highly skilled gang of fewer ships could kick there butts.
The fact is that it in a lot if not all cases of gang fights it comes down to individual pilot skill, the skill and effectiveness off how each of the gangs work together and even a little luck for the jammers as falcons can be quite hard to jam.
Yet you answer without actually answering the bloody question. _______________________________________________ Motaka ~ DirtyHarry ~ Original F-E Material |
Mashie Saldana
Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams
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Posted - 2008.07.26 21:43:00 -
[2130]
Originally by: Otellus 3 tanked scimitars. 3 damage fitted muninns with a shield tank 3 scorpions 3 ceptors to web anything coming close.
All ships stay close together to get reps from the scimitars. Muninns snipe the drones of the ishtars, scorpions (or other EWAR specced ships) keep the falcons at bay. Once you killed the drones the nanogang has to flee because they have the DPS of a wet paper bag. Anyone getting primaried but not repped quickly enough can warp out because the rapiers wont be scrambling anyone since that would make them get too close to the ceptors who would web them so the muninns would wipe them out. In fact, any gang could just warp out from your nanogang right away if they so choose since there is no real tackling ability there.
Tactics are very simple. EWAR the nasty nanoships, ceptors screen your fleet but stay close so anyone trying to web them needs to get close and gets killed. Its easy to drive a nanogang off beyond scrambling range so you can warp out when you get under heavy fire. Ishtars, always shoot the drones and ignore the ships. Once the drones are dead, Ishtars are expensive paperweights.
Most common mistake is sending ceptors directly at the nanogang, so they then get webbed and killed in short order by the nanofleet.
That sounds like a nice tactic but the result is just a stalement where the nanogang just won't engage and move along. To actually catch and kill them you need a bigger nanogang yourself, and even then they are likely to get away unless caught during jump in (unlikely with a competent scout).
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