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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 15 post(s) |
sophisticatedlimabean
Gallente Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.07.26 21:50:00 -
[2131]
Originally by: Motaka
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean
Originally by: Mashie Saldana For those of you against this change, I'm curious how you would kill the following little gang using 12 ships:
3 x 6km/s Rapiers 3 x 6km/s Curses 3 x 6km/s Ishtars 3 x Falcons
This sort of question is posed by paper tigers and proves nothing tbh cos if those ships are piloted by morons they will be ineffectual while a highly skilled gang of fewer ships could kick there butts.
The fact is that it in a lot if not all cases of gang fights it comes down to individual pilot skill, the skill and effectiveness off how each of the gangs work together and even a little luck for the jammers as falcons can be quite hard to jam.
Yet you answer without actually answering the bloody question.
That is because as i said the question only has relevance to EVE fitting tool warriors who have spent most of their life in eve in missions or spinning their ship watching their skill training tick over.
Piloting and in gang teamwork skill + a little luck when both gangs are skilled is virtually always the deciding factor in a fight.
My views may reflect those of my corp/alliance, but if you wanna know for sure ask em for gods sake. |
Boz Well
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.07.26 21:51:00 -
[2132]
Originally by: Mashie Saldana
Originally by: Otellus 3 tanked scimitars. 3 damage fitted muninns with a shield tank 3 scorpions 3 ceptors to web anything coming close.
All ships stay close together to get reps from the scimitars. Muninns snipe the drones of the ishtars, scorpions (or other EWAR specced ships) keep the falcons at bay. Once you killed the drones the nanogang has to flee because they have the DPS of a wet paper bag. Anyone getting primaried but not repped quickly enough can warp out because the rapiers wont be scrambling anyone since that would make them get too close to the ceptors who would web them so the muninns would wipe them out. In fact, any gang could just warp out from your nanogang right away if they so choose since there is no real tackling ability there.
Tactics are very simple. EWAR the nasty nanoships, ceptors screen your fleet but stay close so anyone trying to web them needs to get close and gets killed. Its easy to drive a nanogang off beyond scrambling range so you can warp out when you get under heavy fire. Ishtars, always shoot the drones and ignore the ships. Once the drones are dead, Ishtars are expensive paperweights.
Most common mistake is sending ceptors directly at the nanogang, so they then get webbed and killed in short order by the nanofleet.
That sounds like a nice tactic but the result is just a stalement where the nanogang just won't engage and move along. To actually catch and kill them you need a bigger nanogang yourself, and even then they are likely to get away unless caught during jump in (unlikely with a competent scout).
To be honest I don't mind that they're making changes to nano's, slowing them down, etc. But I just can't say I like that they're throwing this MANY changes into the game all at once. Why not implement a choice few of this list, and then see how that changes things? Putting 5 hours of work into brainstorming, basing changes off a lolvaga fit (casual hg snake set), and then throwing in a ton of changes just doesn't seem like a good idea to me.
Nano's had a nerf coming, but CCP doesn't have to take a sledgehammer approach to it. Nerf polycarbs a bit, maybe implement stacking, and then see how things are balanced. Or throw some extra nano counters into the game, i.e. scramblers like proposed (except use a script) or go with the suggestion that webbers get scripts to work at range at reduced effectiveness. Make it so there are more counters to nano's (although there already are a decent number of counters) and then see how it balances out. But don't just nerf it all to hell and change everything around.
Meh, just my $0.02.
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Cosy
Gallente Porandor
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Posted - 2008.07.26 21:52:00 -
[2133]
Originally by: Suitonia The thing that ****es me off the most is the fact that CCP are balancing the game around pirate implants, max skilled commandship pilots, tech II rigs and drugs.
/qft
Originally by: CCP Mitnal Any complaints can be directed towards our Music Director
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Smokie McLottapot
Caldari Keepers Of The Gate
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Posted - 2008.07.26 21:52:00 -
[2134]
Originally by: Motaka
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean
Originally by: Mashie Saldana For those of you against this change, I'm curious how you would kill the following little gang using 12 ships:
3 x 6km/s Rapiers 3 x 6km/s Curses 3 x 6km/s Ishtars 3 x Falcons
This sort of question is posed by paper tigers and proves nothing tbh cos if those ships are piloted by morons they will be ineffectual while a highly skilled gang of fewer ships could kick there butts.
The fact is that it in a lot if not all cases of gang fights it comes down to individual pilot skill, the skill and effectiveness off how each of the gangs work together and even a little luck for the jammers as falcons can be quite hard to jam.
Yet you answer without actually answering the bloody question.
Maybe your not smart enough to see the answer.
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean
The fact is that it in a lot if not all cases of gang fights it comes down to individual pilot skill, the skill and effectiveness off how each of the gangs work together.
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Malachon Draco
eXceed Inc. eXceed.
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Posted - 2008.07.26 21:53:00 -
[2135]
Originally by: Mashie Saldana
Originally by: Otellus 3 tanked scimitars. 3 damage fitted muninns with a shield tank 3 scorpions 3 ceptors to web anything coming close.
All ships stay close together to get reps from the scimitars. Muninns snipe the drones of the ishtars, scorpions (or other EWAR specced ships) keep the falcons at bay. Once you killed the drones the nanogang has to flee because they have the DPS of a wet paper bag. Anyone getting primaried but not repped quickly enough can warp out because the rapiers wont be scrambling anyone since that would make them get too close to the ceptors who would web them so the muninns would wipe them out. In fact, any gang could just warp out from your nanogang right away if they so choose since there is no real tackling ability there.
Tactics are very simple. EWAR the nasty nanoships, ceptors screen your fleet but stay close so anyone trying to web them needs to get close and gets killed. Its easy to drive a nanogang off beyond scrambling range so you can warp out when you get under heavy fire. Ishtars, always shoot the drones and ignore the ships. Once the drones are dead, Ishtars are expensive paperweights.
Most common mistake is sending ceptors directly at the nanogang, so they then get webbed and killed in short order by the nanofleet.
That sounds like a nice tactic but the result is just a stalement where the nanogang just won't engage and move along. To actually catch and kill them you need a bigger nanogang yourself, and even then they are likely to get away unless caught during jump in (unlikely with a competent scout).
Yes, its a stalemate. That nanogang is a shoddy gang anyway and can hardly kill anything. Actual fights always depend on tactics. If that nanogang makes a mistake, the ceptors will catch 1 or 2 of them and kill them. But if the nanogang is careful, they wont lose ships, but they wont kill anything either. Quite similar with a lot of other types of gangs. If it was 10 sniper battleships and 2 covops, you would have a hell of a time finding a 12 man gang capable of killing any of them as well if the snipergang doesnt want to get killed.
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DefJam101
Gallente Aliastra
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Posted - 2008.07.26 21:53:00 -
[2136]
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean That is because as i said the question only has relevance to EVE fitting tool warriors
Irony alert!
Originally by: Destiny Calling Edited by: Destiny Calling on 27/12/2006 14:40:19 edited for simplicity your idea is bad |
Smokie McLottapot
Caldari Keepers Of The Gate
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Posted - 2008.07.26 21:55:00 -
[2137]
Originally by: Mashie Saldana For those of you against this change, I'm curious how you would kill the following little gang using 12 ships:
3 x 6km/s Rapiers 3 x 6km/s Curses 3 x 6km/s Ishtars 3 x Falcons
12 curse/pilgram
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Matrix Skye
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.07.26 21:55:00 -
[2138]
Originally by: Smokie McLottapot
Originally by: Matrix Skye The nano ho's defense:
"If you can't catch and kill nanos it's because you're an idiot and you suck! Now don't take my precious nano away because I don't want to die! But YOU are the cowards anyway!"
Maybe it's "Your taking away the only viable anti-blob tactic in game" thing that some don't like? And once again, post with your main Mr. Nutless
i'll tell you what, let's exchange address and phone numbers and let neither of us hide behind this internet bullshit. k? oh? that's not what you meant? dont have the balls? give me your info and i promise to send you mine. that way we're at it to men with a pair of balls each.
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Red Thunder
Most Wanted INC G00DFELLAS
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Posted - 2008.07.26 21:56:00 -
[2139]
84 pages now....lets hope ccp gets their head straight and stops ****ing with the game while its still fun
Eagles may soar, but weasels dont get sucked into jet engines |
Smokie McLottapot
Caldari Keepers Of The Gate
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Posted - 2008.07.26 21:57:00 -
[2140]
Edited by: Smokie McLottapot on 26/07/2008 21:59:07
Originally by: Matrix Skye Edited by: Matrix Skye on 26/07/2008 21:55:40
Originally by: Smokie McLottapot
Originally by: Matrix Skye The nano ho's defense:
"If you can't catch and kill nanos it's because you're an idiot and you suck! Now don't take my precious nano away because I don't want to die! But YOU are the cowards anyway!"
Maybe it's "Your taking away the only viable anti-blob tactic in game" thing that some don't like? And once again, post with your main Mr. Nutless
i'll tell you what, let's exchange address and phone numbers and let neither of us hide behind this internet bullshit. k? oh? that's not what you meant? dont have the balls? give me your info and i promise to send you mine. that way we're at it men to men with a pair of balls each.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA someone needs a nap
Edit: but if you really want it, eve-mail me :) and fyi, there like bowling balls, but heavier
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Druadan
Aristotle Enterprises
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Posted - 2008.07.26 21:58:00 -
[2141]
Edited by: Druadan on 26/07/2008 21:58:14 For the most part this nerf is good. The speed rebalances are good, but I think that gang bonuses should be left close to how they are currently, and I think that the MWD-killing 7.5km scrams is just ridiculous, as it doesn't come close to effecting a change upon the prime nano offenders, while killing blasterboats outright.
Sig removed, inappropriate content. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Abernathy Wallace
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Posted - 2008.07.26 21:58:00 -
[2142]
Originally by: Matrixcvd
And BTW Dionysus, I couldn't have proved my theory about CCP Dev's using EFT to figure out changes to game mechanics any better than your full snake set. Bravo chap you clearly fall into the "give them enough rope to hang themselves with" routine. Full snake set braking 4k/s now thats GENIUS! Cause god knows, appartlety with all the divine references in the dev poast you all think you are the gods of this game, EVERYONES GOT SNAKES. Theres a snake there, and a snake over there, oh look snakes it Jita, snakes EVERYWHERE... idiots.
QFT
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Red Thunder
Most Wanted INC G00DFELLAS
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Posted - 2008.07.26 21:59:00 -
[2143]
Originally by: Mashie Saldana For those of you against this change, I'm curious how you would kill the following little gang using 12 ships:
3 x 6km/s Rapiers 3 x 6km/s Curses 3 x 6km/s Ishtars 3 x Falcons
dont you think that 9 people with over a billion isk of implants each deserve to stand a fair good chance in a fight? ****ing idiot
Eagles may soar, but weasels dont get sucked into jet engines |
Matrix Skye
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.07.26 21:59:00 -
[2144]
Edited by: Matrix Skye on 26/07/2008 22:02:52
Originally by: Smokie McLottapot
Originally by: Matrix Skye Edited by: Matrix Skye on 26/07/2008 21:55:40
Originally by: Smokie McLottapot
Originally by: Matrix Skye The nano ho's defense:
"If you can't catch and kill nanos it's because you're an idiot and you suck! Now don't take my precious nano away because I don't want to die! But YOU are the cowards anyway!"
Maybe it's "Your taking away the only viable anti-blob tactic in game" thing that some don't like? And once again, post with your main Mr. Nutless
i'll tell you what, let's exchange address and phone numbers and let neither of us hide behind this internet bullshit. k? oh? that's not what you meant? dont have the balls? give me your info and i promise to send you mine. that way we're at it men to men with a pair of balls each.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA someone needs a nap
oh? what happened? i'm waiting? if you dont trust me we can use chribba to exchange info :) lets swap info so we can discuss this on a more man to man level. this is what you wanted, isn't it? :)
will the REAL Mr. Nutless please stand up :)
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Smokie McLottapot
Caldari Keepers Of The Gate
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Posted - 2008.07.26 22:01:00 -
[2145]
Edited by: Smokie McLottapot on 26/07/2008 22:01:48 /quote CCP Nozh Get these motherfarking snakes of this motherfarking server!
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Red Thunder
Most Wanted INC G00DFELLAS
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Posted - 2008.07.26 22:02:00 -
[2146]
Originally by: Matrix Skye
Originally by: Smokie McLottapot
Originally by: Matrix Skye Edited by: Matrix Skye on 26/07/2008 21:55:40
Originally by: Smokie McLottapot
Originally by: Matrix Skye The nano ho's defense:
"If you can't catch and kill nanos it's because you're an idiot and you suck! Now don't take my precious nano away because I don't want to die! But YOU are the cowards anyway!"
Maybe it's "Your taking away the only viable anti-blob tactic in game" thing that some don't like? And once again, post with your main Mr. Nutless
i'll tell you what, let's exchange address and phone numbers and let neither of us hide behind this internet bullshit. k? oh? that's not what you meant? dont have the balls? give me your info and i promise to send you mine. that way we're at it men to men with a pair of balls each.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA someone needs a nap
oh? what happened? i'm waiting? if you dont trust me we can use chribba to exchange info :) lets swap info so we can discuss this on a more man to man level. this is what you wanted, isn't it? :)
well u certainly sound like one ****head who needs to be knocked down a notch
37 thornbury rise darlington england
Eagles may soar, but weasels dont get sucked into jet engines |
Smokie McLottapot
Caldari Keepers Of The Gate
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Posted - 2008.07.26 22:03:00 -
[2147]
Originally by: Smokie McLottapot
Edit: but if you really want it, eve-mail me :) and fyi, there like bowling balls, but heavier
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Matrix Skye
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.07.26 22:06:00 -
[2148]
Edited by: Matrix Skye on 26/07/2008 22:06:56
Originally by: Red Thunder well u certainly sound like one ****head who needs to be knocked down a notch
37 thornbury rise darlington england
i need a number since i dont live in darlington, england :)
my address is:
7400 Stirling Rd Apt 121 Davie, Florida
id like to call you :)
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Matrix Skye
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.07.26 22:09:00 -
[2149]
smokie,
i've sent you an evemail. now show me what those bowling balls of yours are made out of
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Smokie McLottapot
Caldari Keepers Of The Gate
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Posted - 2008.07.26 22:09:00 -
[2150]
Edited by: Smokie McLottapot on 26/07/2008 22:10:06
Originally by: Matrix Skye Edited by: Matrix Skye on 26/07/2008 22:06:56
Originally by: Red Thunder well u certainly sound like one ****head who needs to be knocked down a notch
37 thornbury rise darlington england
i need a number since i dont live in darlington, england :)
my address is:
7400 Stirling Rd Apt 121 Davie, Florida
id like to call you :)
(+354) 540 9100 - call and emo your heart out Mr. I'm tough over the phone.
Oh and this nerf sucks :)
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DefJam101
Gallente Aliastra
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Posted - 2008.07.26 22:09:00 -
[2151]
Originally by: Red Thunder well u certainly sound like one ****head who needs to be knocked down a notch
37 thornbury rise darlington england
Originally by: Matrix Skye i need a number since i dont live in darlington, england :)
my address is:
7400 Stirling Rd Apt 121 Davie, Florida
id like to call you :)
Originally by: Destiny Calling Edited by: Destiny Calling on 27/12/2006 14:40:19 edited for simplicity your idea is bad |
DelboyTrotter
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Posted - 2008.07.26 22:10:00 -
[2152]
Originally by: Mashie Saldana For those of you against this change, I'm curious how you would kill the following little gang using 12 ships:
3 x 6km/s Rapiers 3 x 6km/s Curses 3 x 6km/s Ishtars 3 x Falcons
Spending the same amount of isk that those ships cost would give you roughly 50 Drakes (including the insurance)
50x Drakes armed with FoFs for the 12 or so that get jammed. Before the nerf the recon gang would be decimated if they were stupid enough to engage.
Now think what it would be like after, when all the missiles are hitting for full damage as the recons are moving at 2-3km/s
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Smokie McLottapot
Caldari Keepers Of The Gate
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Posted - 2008.07.26 22:12:00 -
[2153]
Originally by: DefJam101
The funniest thing ever posted
We have a winner!
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Mioelnir
Minmatar Meltd0wn Atrum Tempestas Foedus
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Posted - 2008.07.26 22:12:00 -
[2154]
Edited by: Mioelnir on 26/07/2008 22:12:57
Originally by: Mashie Saldana For those of you against this change, I'm curious how you would kill the following little gang using 12 ships:
3 x 6km/s Rapiers 3 x 6km/s Curses 3 x 6km/s Ishtars 3 x Falcons
First of all, as you generously didn't specify the place, lets say:
this is in 0.0 space, the 12 hac/recon + 1 cs are a regularly visiting roaming gang with some nice bookmarks, the falcons are 220km off a gate not in line to anything celestial (but still idiots) and the other 9 hug the gate.
Now, Phase #1: - warp in a cloaked Cheetah using your awesome bookmarks too and position it to provide a warpin spot on top of the falcons (remember, they were established as idiots, so, sitting on top of each other and not cloaked) - warp in a plated bait discophoon on the gate and start the john travolta lightshow
Phase #2: - the 9 recon/hacs at the gate draw aggression
Phase #3: - warp a cap injected passive tank onyx to the gate and activate ze bubb0l - warp a disco raven on top of the falcons - warp in 8 200km optimal-range sniper Maelstrom, each to one of 8 different radial bookmarks surrounding the gate at 100km
Info-Mindlinked max skill Eos with all 3 information warfare, shield and armor resistance and signature reduction ganglinks is ofc offgrid parked at a pos (they get one too!)
\o/ Yes, I tried hard to come up with about as theoretical an answer as the question was.
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Matrix Skye
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.07.26 22:14:00 -
[2155]
Edited by: Matrix Skye on 26/07/2008 22:15:14
Originally by: Smokie McLottapot (+354) 540 9100 - call and emo your heart out Mr. I'm tough over the phone.
Oh and this nerf sucks :)
i see you punked out. nice try next time you call someone out to face you it would be nice if you didn't hide like the spineless creature you are! now hush
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Smokie McLottapot
Caldari Keepers Of The Gate
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Posted - 2008.07.26 22:20:00 -
[2156]
Originally by: Matrix Skye Edited by: Matrix Skye on 26/07/2008 22:17:33
Originally by: Smokie McLottapot (+354) 540 9100 - call and emo your heart out Mr. I'm tough over the phone.
Oh and this nerf sucks :)
i see you punked out. nice try next time you call someone out to face you it would be nice if you didn't hide like the spineless creature you are! now hush
you're a work of art first you say i hide behind an alt and i'm nutless. when i call you out so we can be a bit more personal about it without hiding behind avatars you punk out like a girl. now you try and play it like "im tough". dood, i just did what you wanted and you *****ed out. :)
Yup, because giving personal info to a model mentaly stable person such as yourself is a great idea!
HIGH FIVE! o/\o
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Haakelen
Gallente Genesis Rising
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Posted - 2008.07.26 22:21:00 -
[2157]
itt idiot nano whiners are called idiots and prove it by posting their addresses onto an internet spaceship forum
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Matrix Skye
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.07.26 22:23:00 -
[2158]
Originally by: Smokie McLottapot Yup, because giving personal info to a model mentaly stable person such as yourself is a great idea!
HIGH FIVE! o/\o
Here's a tip:
If you don't want crazy unstable people showing up to your face (and I am a bit unstable I admit ) STOP asking them to :) And especially don't call them nutless when they don't, and crazy when they do.
It makes you look a little like the nutless one.
real simple, no?
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Pattern Clarc
Invicta.
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Posted - 2008.07.26 22:35:00 -
[2159]
Some quotes the CCP should take into consideration.
Quote: 1) The nerf doesn't fix anything, ships will still be able to go beyond the magic number and receive no damage, it's just a little harder. The mechanics is broken, hit effects and missiles are heavily simplified, instead of motion predictive effects, acceleration or deltaV, you have raw speed and transversal vs range determine the damage you receive. Until you fix this, you will not receive a fair mechanic for either side.
2) Most of the PvP'ers who you see as for nano's, are really just against the ******s you can't figure out how to deal with a tactic in the game. The real question is how do you deal with neuts and ECM?
3) 100mill ISK Cruisers flying at 2-3kms (before gang mods) did actually make sense, they where not immune to all damage, just stupid caldari HAM spammers (lasers really hurt Sad) and had a use/role outside that of what battlecruisers and frigs did.
4) People just can't seem to grasp the fact that you cant kill what you can't catch, it's a fundamental law of nature, if it's faster than you, it's going to get away, just as people will blob or go home when faced with an objective. It's just sheer pandering and idiocy that suggests we should be able to 'force engagements' magically, against anything that we are unable to out manoeuvre.
5) And what happens when we force an engagement???? The magical holy grail of PvP???? You either tank and gank, die, get ECM'ed or lag strikes and your left with the role of a dice... 80% of tactics and strategy in EvE revolves around starting a fight, unfortunately, it's like masturbating with sandpaper with a pay-off less pleasant than a poke in the eye with a rusty stick. Until there are more real time tactics in eve you shouldn't be touting that OMG, we cant force engagements bullcrap.
6) Most of EvE's problems fundamentally revolves around the laziness/ineptitude of the dev's, it took them 1 year to write that dev blog, jesusteddy****ingchrist, someone give them a noble prize.
Quote: the nerfing of nanos only serves to strengthen the DEFENSIVE side of EVE even more. The defense already has an undeniable advantage in large-scale gameplay, thus REDUCING fights. Nerfing nanos brings the scale even more in favor of a defensive style of play, thus REDUCING fights.
CCP needs to learn that they need to facilitate OFFENSIVE play, to make ATTACKING the normal mode of play. Offense is dynamic, defense is static and boring. Do they want to turn the game into a feudal contest where nobody leaves their borders except to siege a POS?
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DefJam101
Gallente Aliastra
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Posted - 2008.07.26 22:39:00 -
[2160]
Originally by: Mioelnir Edited by: Mioelnir on 26/07/2008 22:12:57
Originally by: Mashie Saldana *snip*
First of all, as you generously didn't specify the place, lets say: the 12 hac/recon + 1 cs are a regularly visiting roaming gang with some nice bookmarks,
lol
Quote: the falcons are 220km off a gate not in line to anything celestial (but still idiots) and the other 9 hug the gate.
lol.
Quote: remember, they were established as idiots, so, sitting on top of each other and not cloaked
lol!
Quote: each to one of 8 different radial bookmarks surrounding the gate at 100km
lol!!!
Quote: Info-Mindlinked max skill Eos with all 3 information warfare, shield and armor resistance and signature reduction ganglinks is ofc offgrid parked at a pos (they get one too!)
LOL!
Quote: \o/ Yes, I tried hard to come up with about as theoretical an answer as the question was.
Yes that is quite obvious m8. :P Even assuming all of these things this still doesn't really prevent them from running away as soon as shit goes down. Which is some very complicated shit to counter a single gang of idiots. (Idiots with nice bookmarks?)
Originally by: Destiny Calling Edited by: Destiny Calling on 27/12/2006 14:40:19 edited for simplicity your idea is bad |
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