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CCP Fallout	Posted - 2008.10.28 23:17:00 - [1] Quantum Rise, the upcoming expansion to EVE Online, isnÆt just about shiny new weapons and improved economy features. Quantum Rise will also bring improvements to existing ships. In his latest dev blog, CCP Chronotis takes a look at blockade runners, deep space transports, and other ships and outlines some of the proposed changes to their focuses and roles in the game. You can read ChronotisÆ dev blog, ôRollinÆ RollinÆ RollinÆ,ö here. Fallout Associate Community Manager CCP Hf, EVE Online

Ricky1989 Caldari State Protectorate	Posted - 2008.10.28 23:30:00 - [2] Very good changes CCP! btw first!
Bo Kantrel	Posted - 2008.10.28 23:30:00 - [3] Edited by: Bo Kantrel on 28/10/2008 23:30:04 most excellent
Loth'nwenar Caldari The Bastards	Posted - 2008.10.28 23:31:00 - [4] Lookin' good, real good. Givin' the Cov Ops cloak to the Blockade Runners is such a good plan. :)
Akima Jarka Caldari Universalis Imperium	Posted - 2008.10.28 23:31:00 - [5] I really like the blockade runner change. Not so hot on the deep space transport. overall looks good. --- "It does the sheep no good to preach the goodness of a diet of grass, if the wolves are of a different mind." - Nathan Rahl
Crewman Jenkins	Posted - 2008.10.28 23:34:00 - [6] A+
SIR PRIME An Tir Libertas Fidelitas	Posted - 2008.10.28 23:34:00 - [7] Eye opening ideas on the blockade runners. LFA Liaison
Brka H A V O C Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.10.28 23:42:00 - [8] Edited by: Brka on 28/10/2008 23:42:08 If you look at pirate groups, few of them fly without a hictor these days so the +2 makes a hictor required to catch them. Or three points. Love the blockade runner stuff. Gives Black Ops even more of a role. Waiting for more improvements on them but that coupled with this could make Black Ops very worthy especially fun.
Loth'nwenar Caldari The Bastards	Posted - 2008.10.28 23:48:00 - [9] Just thought, you could very literally ninja-moon-mine, with the Blockade Runner changes, if you take the time and can find an overlooked system with a good moon. With a Cov Ops, a Black Ops, and an updated Blockade Runner, the hauler never need go near Stargates again!
Mr Linderman Amarr Veto. Academy Veto Corp	Posted - 2008.10.28 23:50:00 - [10] Seems like some solid and worthy changes. "They will gain the ability to equip covert ops cloaking devices and therefore can warp whilst cloaked" Nice Idea "They will also gain the ability to utilize the black ops jump portals." I'm guessing this means they can jump with the blackops through the gateway they open, but can't ships already do that ? or was it only specific ships ? slightly confused on that one, if they couldn't before and now can then that is an awesome way of bringing along a cloakable fuel reserve for black op missions. Mr L "In conflict, straightforward actions generally lead to engagement, surprising actions generally lead to victory." - Sun Tzu
Zikka Hematite Rose Bionic Dawn	Posted - 2008.10.28 23:54:00 - [11] When updating transport ships there is one subtle but very big unbalance that should be looked at. Viator with cargo expanders and rigs gets just over 10k. Certain other blockade runners also do. Some don't... The 10k mark is significent though as it's the amount you need to cary a repackaged cruiser. In other words only some blockade runners can transport a repackaged cruiser into low sec and the others its impossible to fit them so that you can do so - even though you can get close. All blockade runners should get 10k space with a full set of expanders in the lows and 2 tech 1 expanded cargo rigs. Other than that the changes look good.
Batolemaeus Caldari Athanasius Inc.	Posted - 2008.10.28 23:54:00 - [12] Quote: It might also be good for you all to know the Skiff has always had a +2 warp strength bonus but this was never detailed in the description so we have updated the description to highlight this rather powerful bonus as a good selling point. Wait What? Anyways, looks pretty interesting to me. I like the changes. ---------------------------------------------- Originally by: CCP Prism X In New Eden, EVE wins you.
Shard Merchant Minmatar	Posted - 2008.10.28 23:57:00 - [13] Blockade Runners - Covert ops thing is a really poor idea. You're essentially making the ship more viable in 0.0, a place where most people would rather take the complete safety of jumpdrive logistics, at the expense of making it impossible to catch in empire. I have a feeling this change was more motivated by the empire suicide ganking than anything else. Deep Space Indies - While the repair bonus did little on transport ships, an HP isn't going to change that much. The +2 WC strength bonus also means little on a ship that can't warp as fast as the blockade runners (which is as fast as a frigate). More HP, more cargo, the ability to fit MWD, and tech 2 resistances - that's a solid upgrade over T1. I don't see why they need special tricks or bonuses. Again, the HP thing was probably motivated more by empire suicide ganking than anything else. Exhumers - Don't care about the changes overall, but if you wanted to make the Skiff more useful, why don't you remove trace Morphite from drone compounds. There are so many rogue drones killed, that it drives prices down for the real DCM miners. You also overlooked the largest issues with industrial ships today, and that is Tier 1/2 Indies being rather crap. And in the process of changing industrial ships that needed the least amount of change, we see even more feature proliferation.
gordon cain Minmatar x13 X13 Alliance	Posted - 2008.10.28 23:57:00 - [14] This still doesnt fully do the black ops ships justice. Even with cargo filled with fuel you can only jump 1-2 recons before you have to take from a can and refuel. Its a step in the right direction. Oh and its only cloaking recons, SB, covert ops that can go through the covert jump portal as it is now. G Never argue with idiots, they will just drag you down to their level, and beat you with experience.
Sexface	Posted - 2008.10.28 23:58:00 - [15] Originally by: Mr Linderman I'm guessing this means they can jump with the blackops through the gateway they open, but can't ships already do that ? or was it only specific ships ? slightly confused on that one, if they couldn't before and now can then that is an awesome way of bringing along a cloakable fuel reserve for black op missions. Only certain ships currently can use the Black Ops bridge when it's active, and they are Cov Ops frigates, Stealth Bombers, Force Recons, and maybe Black Ops themselves, but I doubt that last one.
RAGE QUIT	Posted - 2008.10.29 00:01:00 - [16] OMG YOU ARE NERFING GATE CAMPING STOP RUINING MY GAME CCP FAILBOAT!
Princess Kristie Caldari ANZAC ALLIANCE Southern Cross Alliance	Posted - 2008.10.29 00:08:00 - [17] Thumbs UP for blockade runners... Anything for the T1 industrial ships???
Caiman Graystock Comrades in Construction Anarchy.	Posted - 2008.10.29 00:09:00 - [18] Welcome changes, being able to equip the improved cloak on blockade runner is going to be a very welcome change. Native warp strength on DST is great too, many trips through low sec I have been hampered by a small camp with no HIC but a couple of points on me.
Evlyna	Posted - 2008.10.29 00:10:00 - [19] Originally by: RAGE QUIT OMG YOU ARE NERFING GATE CAMPING STOP RUINING MY GAME CCP FAILBOAT! Aw Cool change... let's see it in application if the BO gets just a tiny bit of luv!
Shaddam V Ars ex Discordia	Posted - 2008.10.29 00:12:00 - [20] Great changes. I spend far too much of my time in these ships, and this will make that time much more interesting. ------------------- Go then - there are other worlds than these.
Chaos Incarnate Faceless Logistics	Posted - 2008.10.29 00:12:00 - [21] Edited by: Chaos Incarnate on 29/10/2008 00:14:11 I do like the benefits; are the blockade runners going to maintain their agility, however? Also, if the active tank bonuses haven't seen much love, why not give the blockade runners a similar buffertank ability rather than having them rely on active tank still? Edit: Also also, is there more rorqual love coming? _____________________ The unofficial faceless Achura alt of EVE Online
MuffinsRevenger EmpiresMod	Posted - 2008.10.29 00:13:00 - [22] Usefull changes?! THIS IS MADNESS!!!! Keep it up by the way :D
Jason Edwards	Posted - 2008.10.29 00:14:00 - [23] Changes to the macknaw is pretty good. 2 expanded cargo 2 cargo rigs 2 ice miners Gistii b-type small booster 2 hardeners couldnt be fit before. Now it can :) and if my maths are correct... it also has over 12,000m3 which means 3 cycles until full. ------------------------ "There was this bright flash of light - and now this egg shaped thing is on my screen - did I level up?"
Marcus Druallis Quantum Industries RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.10.29 00:17:00 - [24] Originally by: Chaos Incarnate Edited by: Chaos Incarnate on 29/10/2008 00:14:11 I do like the benefits; are the blockade runners going to maintain their agility, however? Also, if the active tank bonuses haven't seen much love, why not give the blockade runners a similar buffertank ability rather than having them rely on active tank still? Edit: Also also, is there more rorqual love coming? Because they will be very very very very hard to catch as it is, no need for more. --
Wollari D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.10.29 00:19:00 - [25] Blockade Runner Changes: A+ I already see guys that're placing towers in hostile jammed system. Covert Cyno gets opened in a jammed system (when this change comes true) you jump a bunch of cloaked blockade runners in the system behind the enemies lines and placing towers. But a cool idea, even if i don't fly t2 haulers. Perhabs it makes it a viable option to train for them.
Daan Sai Polytrope	Posted - 2008.10.29 00:19:00 - [26] Awesome changes. Especially the indirect support for balck ops. Thumbs up for thinking laterally.
Evlyna	Posted - 2008.10.29 00:22:00 - [27] Edited by: Evlyna on 29/10/2008 00:36:23 Edited by: Evlyna on 29/10/2008 00:22:53 Originally by: Wollari Blockade Runner Changes: A+ I already see guys that're placing towers in hostile jammed system. Covert Cyno gets opened in a jammed system (when this change comes true) you jump a bunch of cloaked blockade runners in the system behind the enemies lines and placing towers. But a cool idea, even if i don't fly t2 haulers. Perhabs it makes it a viable option to train for them. Doesn't say you'll be able to cyno in jammed systems (covert or not - or I missed it). EDIT: nvm, yea I missed it.
EyeCeeYou Caldari Goat Killers Incorporated	Posted - 2008.10.29 00:24:00 - [28] Originally by: gordon cain This still doesnt fully do the black ops ships justice. Even with cargo filled with fuel you can only jump 1-2 recons before you have to take from a can and refuel. kinda nub here, but does giving the haulers the ability to follow the blackop thru its gate, with a load of fuel, increase teh value of the blackops? Seems like now the blackops has a stealth refueling option?
Princess Kristie Caldari ANZAC ALLIANCE Southern Cross Alliance	Posted - 2008.10.29 00:26:00 - [29] Edited by: Princess Kristie on 29/10/2008 00:32:10 Oh one more thing: Mastodon + Bustard as shield tankers??? with 3 mid slots??? (compared to 6/7 low slots for armor tanking occator/impel)??? Maybe swap 1 low for 1 mid and increase cargohold by 150??? ... not too many though.. need to fit those cargohold expanders...
Hoshi Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2008.10.29 00:30:00 - [30] While you are at it maybe you could give the Crane a few more powergrid so it can actually fit a T1 MicroWarpdrive and fill up the rest of its mid slots with 1pg mods at least without a fitting mod. All the other blockade runners can do that. ---------------------------------------- A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations
Chaos Incarnate Faceless Logistics	Posted - 2008.10.29 00:30:00 - [31] Originally by: Marcus Druallis Because they will be very very very very hard to catch as it is, no need for more. While true, I'm just more pointing out that for the longest time, it's been useless to train transports above level 1 because of the active tank bonuses, so just seeing if they're phasing them out completely or not _____________________ The unofficial faceless Achura alt of EVE Online
Dsnakes Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2008.10.29 00:33:00 - [32] Originally by: Hoshi While you are at it maybe you could give the Crane a few more powergrid so it can actually fit a T1 MicroWarpdrive and fill up the rest of its mid slots with 1pg mods at least without a fitting mod. All the other blockade runners can do that. This, plz, mwd is needed to get a fast boos before cloaking
Altaree Eve University Ivy League	Posted - 2008.10.29 00:41:00 - [33] [Viator, Cargo] Expanded Cargohold II Expanded Cargohold II [empty low slot] [empty med slot] [empty med slot] [empty med slot] [empty high slot] Cargohold Optimization I Cargohold Optimization I cargohold 8062m^3 A large control tower is 8000m^3 NICE JOB CCP!!!! Blue Sky
Trypho Minmatar Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.10.29 00:46:00 - [34] Nice idea on the blockade runners, I think these changes will justify the high prices of these ships now. ---
Sanfrey Statolomy Gallente Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2008.10.29 00:53:00 - [35] Outstanding. Corp members who's put up with my ranting about the need for a covops transport will be pleased, until I find a new obsession.
hsv557	Posted - 2008.10.29 00:53:00 - [36] Blockade runner ideas are awsome, thank you CCP, Deep space transport idea equally welcome but maybe you could also give them the ability to use black opps jump portals, and is there any mining barge that can moon mine, i didnt think there was but i have seen a few coments here about it. if not can we introdue a barge that can moon mine as the whole setting up a pos thing for me is something i dont think i will ever do as i like many of your subscribers dont spend every waking minute in the game, would be nice to ninja moon mine some of the really nice materials. all in all great changes keep the good ideas coming CCP
Chiralos Epitoth Fleetyards	Posted - 2008.10.29 00:54:00 - [37] Excellent ideas on the blockade runners and transport ships. Some of the best fun I've had in EVE was trying to crawl out of a bubbled gate in a covops with 20+ hostile ships buzzing around like hornets. Trying that in an indy would be awesome. Amarr Victor.
Avalira Caldari Tau Ceti Green Card Free Trade Zone.	Posted - 2008.10.29 00:55:00 - [38] Quote: It might also be good for you all to know the Skiff has always had a +2 warp strength bonus but this was never detailed in the description so we have updated the description to highlight this rather powerful bonus as a good selling point. Does this +2 warp strength currently work on NPC's? I recently lost a skiff due to scrambeling frigs preventing my warp. I'll bug report it just incase. Originally by: CCP Tuxford Its been fixed. All in all its one of the more embarrassing mistakes I made, but it made game design laugh. Now lets never speak of this again.
Human Testing	Posted - 2008.10.29 01:02:00 - [39] Really nice changes but the prowler being the only blockade runner with two highs is reminiscent of stealth bombers when one had more launchers. Either remove the prowlers extra high or give them all two high slots.
Electric Fox IMPERIAL SENATE Pure.	Posted - 2008.10.29 01:09:00 - [40] I'd like some more discussion on the shield/armor tanking split on the deep space transports. Fitting plates reduces manuverability and fitting shields increases sig radius which bring their own drawbacks. Reduced manuverablilty means it takes longer to warp, providing more time for a tackle and increased sig raduis means you get locked faster. The former affects you for every jump allowing people to try and catch up with you or organise a trip down the pipe. The latter only affects you when you're engaged. Secondly, the Occator and Impel respectively have 6 and 7 low slots whilst the Mastodon and Bustard each have 5. Using up lowslots for armor plates reduces the Occator and Impel's capacity to fit warp core stabs, cargo expanders, nanos or inertia stabs. The respective 1 and 2 mid slots on the Occator and Impel can only be used for afterburner, MWD, cap chargers, cap batteries - basically less useful stuff. Meanwhile, the Mastodon and Bustard, while only having 3 mid slots providing less slots for shield extenders have 5 free low slots for the aformentioned usefulness. The bottom line to this point is that if you're only going to give these ships the power grid to fit up to 2 battlships sized shield extenders/plates then it won't make much difference. Otherwise, the Armor tanking ships are going to have to juggle the balence of their low slots whilst the mid slots don't get used for very much. Oh, fantastic change to the blockade runners by the way. I no longer regret that Viator purchase! I used to do complexes in a Viator as it was allowed through the acceleration gate whilst t1 indies weren't. It now also fills the role of cloaking loot/salvage storage to accompany mates on complexes. Warp in, cloak, wait for all the rats to be killed, have someone else salvage, decloak, scoop jettisoned salvage, recloak, onto the next acceleration gate.
Tessen Stellar Tide	Posted - 2008.10.29 01:35:00 - [41] Awesome changes. Quote: the Skiff has always had a +2 warp strength bonus Give love and +1 warp strength bonus to Procurer and it will be perfect.
Signati	Posted - 2008.10.29 01:36:00 - [42] Are these changes on sisi yet? If so ill give em a run around when I get home. Love the change to the maki, very good. Blockade runner changes are very nice aswell, will give me more use out of one of my favorite haulers to fly. The crane! I would like to see more powergrid on it tho, so I can fit a MWD. Also a second high would be nice for a small/assault laucher (attack or defenders).
Stretchmeat Crotchquake GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.10.29 01:40:00 - [43] So basically, you couldn't figure out how to make DSTs useful beyond the tank, so you made them more useful at uh... blockade-running. Somehow I think improving their align times and increasing their tractor beam range would have been a more useful buff.
Myra2007 24th Imperial Crusade	Posted - 2008.10.29 01:40:00 - [44] Edited by: Myra2007 on 29/10/2008 01:45:09 Just FYI: blockade runners didn't have much problems at all running blockades. I'll assume you've never flown one so duh. Now they are just uncatchable under any and all circumstances. And that is a bad mechanic but who cares anymore?
Letrange Minmatar Valklear Guard	Posted - 2008.10.29 01:50:00 - [45] A+ for both modifications The companion cargo ship to the stealthy set is finally here, when combined with the fuel bay modifications that have been hinted at for the black-ops, this should render real black-ops operations feasable. The DSTs can now be saved when they are escorted by repping capable ships now that they can fit proper buffer tanks. More to the point this makes them worth escorting since they can be repped.
BlackHorizon Dark Knights of Deneb Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2008.10.29 01:50:00 - [46] Who uses these ships anyway over jump freighters and carriers for actual blockade running? And in empire, it's still always better to use an alt in a freighter to avoid wars. The only use real use these ships have are tractoring wrecks/cans from mining and missioning. The entire class is somewhat obsolete, and the changes outlined in the blog do not address the real problems that make them roleless.
Battlecheese Caldari Black Knight Buccaneers Strength in Numbers.	Posted - 2008.10.29 01:52:00 - [47] Originally by: Hoshi While you are at it maybe you could give the Crane a few more powergrid so it can actually fit a T1 MicroWarpdrive and fill up the rest of its mid slots with 1pg mods at least without a fitting mod. All the other blockade runners can do that. Get yourself some 10MN Digital Booster Rockets -> Crane becomes uber.
Ris Dnalor Minmatar Ex Cruoris Libertas	Posted - 2008.10.29 02:01:00 - [48] excellent changes all.
Alz Shado Ever Flow Axiom Empire	Posted - 2008.10.29 02:02:00 - [49] Edited by: Alz Shado on 29/10/2008 02:05:24 This is the most USELESS change I've ever seen. Boosting tank on haulers? Really? Who in their right mind looked at the Blockade Runner and thought, "Even thought it aligns like a shuttle, can fit a MWD, and has an innate stab boost, this ship just ain't survivable enough. Lets give it a Covops cloak, instead of the extra points which is pretty useless anyway." And THEN looked at the DST and thought "Hmm, I think this will be an uber ship if it just got a slight tank boost. Oh, and +2 WCS, because it'll NEVER run into a gate camp bigger than two people that doesn't have a heavy interdictor or a warp bubble." Really? With the massive disparity in cargo capacity between the T2 Haulers and freighters and, according to Zulupark: "We are not currently working on a specific mini-freighter." I really hope you didn't waste more than a coffee break discussing these changes. You want a REAL fix? Change the Blockade runner so that it is immune to bubbles, and give the DST +10% Cargo Capacity per Transport Ships level. //// ---------=== []= ---------=== \\\\ Rifter(RedBad) "Kill a man one is a murderer; kill a million, a conqueror; kill them all, a God." -- Jean Rostand
Warrio Southern Cross Incorporated Southern Cross Alliance	Posted - 2008.10.29 02:03:00 - [50] Pure win. sXe
xaja	Posted - 2008.10.29 02:20:00 - [51] this is pretty great! People will actually start blockade running, instead of just paying the carrier / rorqual service to move their stuff in GTC's... Cause right now, I don't know anybody in my corp who uses T2 haulers for anything but picking up hauler spawn minerals, or do a few hops within their space to fuel towers. even though some complain about it getting harder to catch them, at least there will be some flying, so you actually get to try :P Lastly, the suicide ganking was getting all too easy anyway. If your spotter could calculate the value of the cargo fast enough, it was a slam dunk with no risk of failure. ... _____________________________________ I'm Paper; Rock's fine, nerf Scissors
Haffrage Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams	Posted - 2008.10.29 02:21:00 - [52] Decent ideas - better than deep space transports using covert portals by miles. But I'm curious, is there any specific reason you can't do PG reduction on both shield extenders AND plates for all DST's? Some of my favorite setups use both, I'd love to be able to fit a nice speed mod at the same time.
Aggrod Circle of Flames	Posted - 2008.10.29 02:21:00 - [53] Originally by: Alz Shado You want a REAL fix? Change the Blockade runner so that it is immune to bubbles, and give the DST +10% Cargo Capacity per Transport Ships level. no issue with that idea for a DST change, but runners immune to bubbles? So nothing could stop them... you have no issue with that at all? As it stands right now, a runner in 0.0 is dead if it finds a bubble. After CCP's change, it will stand a chance, if the player uses his head. with your idea for a change, it would survive. 99.9% of the time. Dont tell me ceptors could get it cause ive ran past ceptors in my crane before. Seems to be missing the Risk factor of running blockades. ---------- I devise my own demise
Kalissa D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.10.29 02:26:00 - [54] Very good changes CCP, especially on the Blockade runners.
Bellum Eternus Gallente Death of Virtue	Posted - 2008.10.29 02:27:00 - [55] Edited by: Bellum Eternus on 29/10/2008 02:36:18 This is the dumbest ideas CCP has come up with yet. And I'm skilled up to use both Caldari and Gallente T2 haulers. The ships are hard enough to catch already. And now you just want them to be able to be used with impunity? Does CCP just want everyone except those in combat ships to operate in complete safety? I know that the developers and game design guys aren't idiots, so that must mean that they're doing this on purpose, just to **** us off. WTF is wrong with you people? Trying to be constructive: Now when anyone (me) wants to move high value cargo (billions in officer mods) through empire, or anywhere else for that matter, I just hop in my Crane or Viator and go. Nothing can stop me, you can't see me, I fit a couple stabs for good measure, unless I lag out on a session change, I'm unstoppable. How is this good gameplay CCP? Eve wasn't safe enough for the moron Carebears that couldn't figure out how to not be killed, so you had to hand them a solution on a plate? The dev team doesn't make any sense anymore. Bellum Eternus Inveniam viam aut faciam. [Vid] I M M O R T A L
Wrayeth Trans Eve Organization	Posted - 2008.10.29 02:30:00 - [56] Originally by: CCP Fallout Quantum Rise will also bring improvements to existing ships. If, by "improvements", you mean "make them useless" (see: battleships), then yes. -Wrayeth n00b Extraordinaire "Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!"
demonfurbie Minmatar 20th Legion Southern Cross Alliance	Posted - 2008.10.29 02:33:00 - [57] well done
1Miner Girl The Scope	Posted - 2008.10.29 02:34:00 - [58] Edited by: 1Miner Girl on 29/10/2008 02:40:13 lol... hugs her viator and here I thought the ship was already pimp enough really don't know what to say, coolest change ever, never thought it would be something so uber Somebody say ninja small pos with a fleet of recons? Not so sure about the heavy transport changes. Now its like a reject blockade runner? The thing is already slow enough, slapping plates on the armor tankers are just going to make them even slower. And honestly, what camp doesn't have a bubble, or 3 or more points, especially since warp srams are going to be coming back into popularity.
El'essar Viocragh Minmatar Meltd0wn iPOD Alliance	Posted - 2008.10.29 02:37:00 - [59] The barge changes look nice. I'm no miner though. The Blockade Runner changes are awesome. The DST... if you really want to show them some love, give them the 4.5au/s warpspeed of their T1 counterparts. I used my Mastodon during the heigth of suicide ganking with my "Fort Nocx" fitting (Invul II/2x LSE II/DC II/4x PDS II/2x CDFE I) for low volume valueables, but ever since? They warp just too slow for my taste. The maximum cargo difference between Mammoth and Mastodon in a reasonable fitting (= no T2 rigs) is below 1000m3, if you get caught, you are dead anyway, and the Mammoth is aligning and warping a lot faster. If I want to read a book during hauling, I take the Fenrir. Also, 2x LSE, 1x Invul II, 5x ExpCargo II + some random 1mw PG highslot module can already be fitted on the Mastodon, so I'm not exactly sure what the point of this fitting bonus is supposed to be? With it, I assume (wasn't on Sisi yet), you can fit a third LSE II, but an Invul II gives better effective HP and more effective shield transfers while also not blowing up your signature another 25m. The +2 warpstrength is nice for 0.0 operations though. You're still screwed if the other side of that belt encounter is prepared, but you're not a sitting duck per default. -- [17:47] <Mephysto> its dead, jim
Alz Shado Ever Flow Axiom Empire	Posted - 2008.10.29 02:41:00 - [60] Originally by: Aggrod no issue with that idea for a DST change, but runners immune to bubbles? So nothing could stop them... you have no issue with that at all? As it stands right now, a runner in 0.0 is dead if it finds a bubble. After CCP's change, it will stand a chance, if the player uses his head. with your idea for a change, it would survive. 99.9% of the time. Dont tell me ceptors could get it cause ive ran past ceptors in my crane before. Seems to be missing the Risk factor of running blockades. No, eliminate the +2 WCS and just make it immune to bubbles. Right now the agility of the Blockade runner will make or break it's escape, because just about any gate camp in nullsec will have at one interdictor or bubble anyway. The WCS is primarily a highsec feature, where ships are protected by WTZ anyway. Change the +2 WCS to bubble immunity and it's still vulnerable to an insta-locking Arazu or even a frig with a 24km scram. I think that using covert cynos add an awesome role to the blockade runner in nullsec combat. Giving it a covops cloak is overkill, imho. The DST is the biggest loser here. The Orca is no answer to the glaring need for a 75-120km3 mini-freighter. //// ---------=== []= ---------=== \\\\ Rifter(RedBad) "Kill a man one is a murderer; kill a million, a conqueror; kill them all, a God." -- Jean Rostand
Battlecheese Caldari Black Knight Buccaneers Strength in Numbers.	Posted - 2008.10.29 02:41:00 - [61] Edited by: Battlecheese on 29/10/2008 02:46:06 Originally by: Bellum Eternus Now when anyone (me) wants to move high value cargo (billions in officer mods) through empire, or anywhere else for that matter, I just hop in my Crane or Viator and go. Nothing can stop me, you can't see me, I fit a couple stabs for good measure, unless I lag out on a session change, I'm unstoppable. Erm, this behavior is simple to duplicate on tq currently, with the minor exception that wartargets have a chance to see you as you warp away from a gate. All they have done is reduce the substantial tackle-window which the agility debuffs introduced. Edit: Personally, I would have preferred to keep the agility, but oh well. We'll see how it shakes out.
Jei'son Bladesmith The Storm Knights The Cool Kids Club	Posted - 2008.10.29 02:45:00 - [62] i think i just orgasmed in my pants a little Blockade Runner + Covert Ops Cloak = zweeeeeeeeeeeeeeee! CCP, can i haz ur babiez?
El'essar Viocragh Minmatar Meltd0wn iPOD Alliance	Posted - 2008.10.29 02:46:00 - [63] Originally by: Bellum Eternus Now when anyone (me) wants to move high value cargo (billions in officer mods) through empire, or anywhere else for that matter, I just hop in my Crane or Viator and go. Nothing can stop me, you can't see me, I fit a couple stabs for good measure, unless I lag out on a session change, I'm unstoppable. How is this good gameplay CCP? Eve wasn't safe enough for the moron Carebears that couldn't figure out how to not be killed, so you had to hand them a solution on a plate? The dev team doesn't make any sense anymore. In all honesty, a manually fown polycarbon Prowler is practically uncatchable in empire space already, which may or may not be a good thing, but the status quo isn't really changed that much, considering they will have slower align times with QuantumR. It surely is no summoning of the end of eve pvp. -- [17:47] <Mephysto> its dead, jim
Ezekiel Sulastin Gallente Art of War Exalted.	Posted - 2008.10.29 02:47:00 - [64] . . . except DSTs are still pretty much useless except as harder-to-suicide really really slow big haulers. +2 WCS isn't enough to stop all but the smallest camps from tackling you in the time they take to align, and the plate bonus is Not Very Good for the Occator because it makes it align even SLOWER, hence me shield-buffering mine. Oops. At least I'll have fun with the blockade runners while they last in their newfound somewhat overpoweredness - sure as hell beats what you lot are doing to the rest of what I fly. ----
Atari Sakura Minmatar INTERNET HARBLRAGE	Posted - 2008.10.29 02:50:00 - [65] Edited by: Atari Sakura on 29/10/2008 02:54:59 Ok seriously? You guys think this is a good idea? Most 0.0 Gate camps prepare for cloakers in that they are spread out and have a 'net' of drones out. Cans and wrecks and debris is everywhere, I've lost buzzards trying to sneak out of a bubble because I got unlucky, if something the size of a frigate can be decloaked then why not a blockade runner? Jumpdrives are MUCH more viable in 0.0 I don't think anyone but a fool hauls something valuable through 0.0 in any ship with no jump drive. This is another suicide gank nerf. The transport ships get a HP buffer? I don't care if they have as much health as a freighter, the gate camps I'm in have a HICtor and 5 Battleships remote sensor boosting it, as soon as that ship shows up at our gate it is infinipointed and webbed. And then we proceed to kill it, doesn't matter if it has more health, all it means is it will just last a bit longer. Which makes me think that this is just another suicide gank deterrent. Which would be fine, IF you didn't nerf suicide ganking. Summary of points * This is only a cheap suicide gank nerf in disguise, they may have intended these ships to have better roles in there field, but they won't it will only help carebears be even more safe, and more lazy. * If Suicide ganking wasn't nerfed it would be a good idea, because that way there is something that has better protection from it, but at a higher cost and would be concurrent with EVEs Risk vs Reward system. * No comment on the Mackinaw, because I don't know about mining. * The more the whiners and carebears come first, the more the hardcore audience will leave, eventually EVE will be Lvl 4 missions online. --- This forum is problematic. Desu Sigs
Ren Hanxue Gallente Duragon Pioneer Group GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.10.29 02:54:00 - [66] Edited by: Ren Hanxue on 29/10/2008 02:54:39 Originally by: Shard Merchant Blockade Runners - Covert ops thing is a really poor idea. You're essentially making the ship more viable in 0.0, a place where most people would rather take the complete safety of jumpdrive logistics, at the expense of making it impossible to catch in empire. I have a feeling this change was more motivated by the empire suicide ganking than anything else. A properly fitted and piloted blockade runner is already practically impossible to catch in empire. You can get it to align so fast that with lag and reaction times factored in there's nothing in the game that can lock you and activate a module on you fast enough to catch you before you warp off, not even a remote sensorboosted hictor. There's also the fact that you can already fit improved cloaks on blockade runners, so if you don't feel confident about your align speed you can always pull the align for celestial object -> immediately hit cloak and then immediately the mwd -> wait for mwd cycle to end -> when it does immediately decloak and instawarp off trick.
El'essar Viocragh Minmatar Meltd0wn iPOD Alliance	Posted - 2008.10.29 02:55:00 - [67] Oh, and while we're at it: GIVE THE PROWLER ITS BLUE DISCO ENGINE BACK! Seriously. -- [17:47] <Mephysto> its dead, jim
VicturusTeSaluto Metafarmers	Posted - 2008.10.29 02:58:00 - [68] Worst idea I've ever heard, CCP. You are trying to reward people for being stupid rather than for doing things properly. CCP, have you ever even used a cov ops ship? Do you know how transports already work and how fast they align? How is it a good idea to put those two together? It's nearly impossible to lose a transport as it stands. If one properly executes MWD+cloak+align+decloak+warp they are damned safe as it is. No matter how much sensor boosting you use, you really never get the chance to lock them. You can hope to get a lucky bump or decloak every great once in a while- but they execute this maneuver so quickly that the chance of killing them is very small. This is all part of a larger problem. CCP intends to make combat highly unlikely to ever occur and damned near impossible for non-consensual combat to ever occur. Changes like this and the suicide gank nerf are just symptomatic of a larger problem. It was only possible to get suicide ganked if YOU made a MISTAKE. Currently, it's only possible to lose a transport ship if YOU make a MISTAKE. They work fine and are damn-near uncatchable. Even most bubble camps wouldn't have a chance of catching a transport with a cov ops cloak. Just MWD +cloak and burn out of the bubble and warp. On top of that you want them to use jump portals because using a cov ops cloak isn't enough? It's almost impossible to lose a ship while using a cov ops cloak. We already have carriers, dreads, rorquals and jump freighters to move stuff around with near-invulnerability. We don't need invincible ships that warp like an interceptor while cloaked. Other changes in this direction? The "speed nerf" which makes tackling much less likely to occur- tackling is 99% of the game. So much for EVE being a harsh, unforgiving world. You are going the wrong way.
Ren Hanxue Gallente Duragon Pioneer Group GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.10.29 03:02:00 - [69] Originally by: Myra2007 Edited by: Myra2007 on 29/10/2008 01:45:09 Just FYI: blockade runners didn't have much problems at all running blockades. I'll assume you've never flown one so duh. Now they are just uncatchable under any and all circumstances. And that is a bad mechanic but who cares anymore? The speed nerf will make them them a good bit easier to catch since their agility and speed will be reduced. Something was needed to replace it and this is it.
Bellum Eternus Gallente Death of Virtue	Posted - 2008.10.29 03:04:00 - [70] Originally by: Battlecheese Edited by: Battlecheese on 29/10/2008 02:46:06 Originally by: Bellum Eternus Now when anyone (me) wants to move high value cargo (billions in officer mods) through empire, or anywhere else for that matter, I just hop in my Crane or Viator and go. Nothing can stop me, you can't see me, I fit a couple stabs for good measure, unless I lag out on a session change, I'm unstoppable. Erm, this behavior is simple to duplicate on tq currently, with the minor exception that wartargets have a chance to see you as you warp away from a gate. All they have done is reduce the substantial tackle-window which the agility debuffs introduced. Edit: Personally, I would have preferred to keep the agility, but oh well. We'll see how it shakes out. Yes, but that takes some effort and some minor skill on the part of the pilot to accomplish. All CCP has done is hand idiot carebears a get out of jail free card. Bellum Eternus Inveniam viam aut faciam. [Vid] I M M O R T A L
Ren Hanxue Gallente Duragon Pioneer Group GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.10.29 03:06:00 - [71] Originally by: Battlecheese Erm, this behavior is simple to duplicate on tq currently, with the minor exception that wartargets have a chance to see you as you warp away from a gate. All they have done is reduce the substantial tackle-window which the agility debuffs introduced. Edit: Personally, I would have preferred to keep the agility, but oh well. We'll see how it shakes out. This man knows his stuff and you would do well to listen to him.
VicturusTeSaluto Metafarmers	Posted - 2008.10.29 03:13:00 - [72] Originally by: Bellum Eternus Originally by: Battlecheese Edited by: Battlecheese on 29/10/2008 02:46:06 Originally by: Bellum Eternus Now when anyone (me) wants to move high value cargo (billions in officer mods) through empire, or anywhere else for that matter, I just hop in my Crane or Viator and go. Nothing can stop me, you can't see me, I fit a couple stabs for good measure, unless I lag out on a session change, I'm unstoppable. Erm, this behavior is simple to duplicate on tq currently, with the minor exception that wartargets have a chance to see you as you warp away from a gate. All they have done is reduce the substantial tackle-window which the agility debuffs introduced. Edit: Personally, I would have preferred to keep the agility, but oh well. We'll see how it shakes out. Yes, but that takes some effort and some minor skill on the part of the pilot to accomplish. All CCP has done is hand idiot carebears a get out of jail free card. This. They intend to make every carebear safe no matter how many mistakes they make or how little they know about the game. I don't see it being long before non-consensual combat is removed entirely.
Atari Sakura Minmatar INTERNET HARBLRAGE	Posted - 2008.10.29 03:22:00 - [73] Originally by: VicturusTeSaluto This. They intend to make every carebear safe no matter how many mistakes they make or how little they know about the game. I don't see it being long before non-consensual combat is removed entirely. Couldn't agree more buddy. I fear soon even locking someone in high sec will be dis allowed, and there will be 'safe' zones. Normally I always dislike what Zulupark has to say, but he did say he wanted more Lvl 4's moved to low sec, which, would be amazing, considering you can get minerals only available through mining in lowsec, by looting and refining crap from lvl 4s... --- This forum is problematic. Desu Sigs
Regat Kozovv Caldari E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2008.10.29 03:23:00 - [74] I also like these changes. It gives Blockade runners a role in moving small items from empire to 0.0 when you really don't want to wait for the next jump freighter, not to mention more survivability when out and about fueling towers and there are roaming gangs about. Definitively makes me glad I trained transports. Keep up the great work!
Battlecheese Caldari Black Knight Buccaneers Strength in Numbers.	Posted - 2008.10.29 03:26:00 - [75] Edited by: Battlecheese on 29/10/2008 03:27:43 Originally by: Atari Sakura Originally by: VicturusTeSaluto This. They intend to make every carebear safe no matter how many mistakes they make or how little they know about the game. I don't see it being long before non-consensual combat is removed entirely. Couldn't agree more buddy. I fear soon even locking someone in high sec will be dis allowed, and there will be 'safe' zones. Normally I always dislike what Zulupark has to say, but he did say he wanted more Lvl 4's moved to low sec, which, would be amazing, considering you can get minerals only available through mining in lowsec, by looting and refining crap from lvl 4s... I think that in a few months you will look back and see that you are being over-dramatic. My experience has been that most people who put up with the expense, SP investment, and small cargo of a blockade-runner have a fair idea of how to use them effectively anyway. The idiots you want to gank will still be in their iteronVs. Edit: and the sooner loot refining is brutally nerfed the better imo.
Ren Hanxue Gallente Duragon Pioneer Group GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.10.29 03:28:00 - [76] Edited by: Ren Hanxue on 29/10/2008 03:29:46 Edited by: Ren Hanxue on 29/10/2008 03:29:12 Originally by: VicturusTeSaluto This. They intend to make every carebear safe no matter how many mistakes they make or how little they know about the game. I don't see it being long before non-consensual combat is removed entirely. Oh get ahold of yourself, the sky isn't falling. In fact as far as blockade runners go this really doesn't change their survivability all that much when you factor the speed nerf in. Yeah, you can cloak and warp off now, whereas before you had do the MWD trick or rely on your extreme agility to warp off before someone pointed you, but the problem is that now you're both slower and less agile than before so if you get module lag so the cloak doesn't activate, or a fast inty manages to decloak you before you warp off, you're well and truly ****ed. The only situation that this change plus the speed nerf really changes is the one where a blockade runner warps into a bubble camp. Previously this always meant a guaranteed death unless you were both extremely fast and extremely lucky, now you at least have a chance that there won't be anything that decloaks you on the warpin. In pretty much every other situation the blockade runner survivability should probably be about the same, or at least that's what my theorycrafting sense tells me.
Iog Krugar The Rising Stars Cosmic Anomalies	Posted - 2008.10.29 03:30:00 - [77] i really really like where the whole black ops stuff is headed. --- i suposse everyone rolls around stations in pods
ComDS	Posted - 2008.10.29 03:38:00 - [78] This is awsome! The changes to the Blockade Runners is now nominated for the best change to a ship this year award. Finally I can get past those annoying gatecamps with an acceptable chance of success. Not to mention If it is really hot I can just jump past the whole thing with my black ops alt. This makes me an happy carebear.
Hi Lo Faulty Solutions	Posted - 2008.10.29 03:42:00 - [79] Edited by: Hi Lo on 29/10/2008 03:46:12 Anything i say will just be redundant. but, i will say this: i do like these non-nerf changes and the info and openness to feedback from the devs. :) And I am thinking that keeping the agility would be far more effective at keeping my transport ships alive then a covert ops device. Jamming bubbles need to be taken into great consideration. ithink they are the most on-sided, unbalanced thing in eve when you jump and you land in a bubble. no cloaking device can save you from that. Karl Kopalnia > omg Hi Lo is the name I use for all my gaming characters for 15 years--you're the one that took it :*(
Alz Shado Ever Flow Axiom Empire	Posted - 2008.10.29 03:54:00 - [80] Originally by: El'essar Viocragh Oh, and while we're at it: GIVE THE PROWLER ITS BLUE DISCO ENGINE BACK! Seriously. Run the classic client. I do, because 2xTrinity clients crashes my box. True story: I use my prowler like a shuttle. Warping at 9.0 au/s ftw. //// ---------=== []= ---------=== \\\\ Rifter(RedBad) "Kill a man one is a murderer; kill a million, a conqueror; kill them all, a God." -- Jean Rostand
Ren Hanxue Gallente Duragon Pioneer Group GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.10.29 04:04:00 - [81] Edited by: Ren Hanxue on 29/10/2008 04:05:01 Originally by: Alz Shado Originally by: El'essar Viocragh Oh, and while we're at it: GIVE THE PROWLER ITS BLUE DISCO ENGINE BACK! Seriously. Run the classic client. I do, because 2xTrinity clients crashes my box. It's true, when using the new graphics I kinda miss looking like a flying disco. :[
Clansworth Burning Sky Labs Libertas Fidelitas	Posted - 2008.10.29 04:06:00 - [82] Edited by: Clansworth on 29/10/2008 04:08:50 And just when I'd given up my training plan for Black Ops! Blockade Runner Changes: Excellent! Deep Space Transport Changes: Not Game Changing, but Nice! Procurer/Skiff Changes: Still won't be used (well, Skiff for Mercoxit, rarely, when drone drops aren't enough) Mackinaw Changes: Hard to congratulate, as this should have been fixed as a bug the week after they were released! Rorqual Change: We'll see Whether this becomes useful. Losing the SMA's ship type restriction would be nice, especially with the Orca lacking such restrictions. Would allow a place for the miners to stash their frigs/shuttles/whatever got them to the op, and don't say Clone's got them there, because that's just ridiculous with the practically useless clone bay mechanics. Excellent changes all around! POS Personal Storage
Pizza Delivery	Posted - 2008.10.29 04:13:00 - [83] LOVE the blackade runner changes, Well overdue, good to see that they are now getting an appropriate role. Only 1 thing ic an see that wcould use tweaking on them over current plans, that is the ability for a black ops to drag direct from a blockade runners cargo directly into its own cargo bay. This will remove the need of jetting refuel cans. May require a rethink on intended game dynamics, but is something that i believe to be worthwhile given this kind of role. Once again, LOVE the changes, wish they were implemented when Black OPs were first released.
Sylthi Minmatar Coreward Pan-Galactic	Posted - 2008.10.29 04:25:00 - [84] Really great changes all around. Congratulations. I am glad to see there are still some good people working in the balancing department. Now, if you could just do something about the severity (not the existance) of the speed and missile nerf, that would be uber. Still, good on ya. Cheers! * *
ChronoLynx Caldari Federation of Freedom Fighters Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2008.10.29 04:49:00 - [85] Spell Check!! Spell check your dev blogs. Spell check is your friend. Do it... Now!!! Sometimes I wish I could remember; Sometimes I wish I could forget.
Evanda Char Minmatar Re-Awakened Technologies Inc Electus Matari	Posted - 2008.10.29 05:15:00 - [86] I very much like the sound of these changes. The Prowler's active tanking bonus seems to belong to a day of smaller gangs - most gate camps now seem to feature HICs, their associated remote sensor boosting friend, and their cluster of associated battleships. The bonus to resists and shield boosting makes minimal difference against the two hundred and forty bajillion dps - it's still death within 2 seconds. So when there's a camp, I don't generally try to run it. I just find something else to do and put off the indy chores til later. I don't know whether a cov ops cloak would really give me a better chance of getting past a large, organised camp (my main problem being my poor, laggy middle-of-nowhere broadband line), but it would certainly inspire me to try. And it would definitely, definitely make me want to buy and fly a Black Ops just so I could porter a fleet of Prowlers through, get the chores out of the way, and I could go jump on that camp afterwards :) Hmm... the cov ops on the Prowler would also mean I could answer the phone or get a drink or move around during long shipping runs. A humane bonus. How soon can this go live? -Eva- Electus Matari - taking it one bad guy at a time
Orb Lati Minmatar ANZAC ALLIANCE Southern Cross Alliance	Posted - 2008.10.29 05:54:00 - [87] Apart from 1 area these changes seem like a good improvement. The only issue I have is the covert ops on a blockade runner. These ships are already very good at evading most forms of gate camps. And while a bubble camp is tricky, the golden rule in 0.0 is always have intel/scout. With the positive ability to use a covert jump bridge being proposed, this should elevate getting around bubble camps without giving them a covert ops ability. FYI there is already a lot of support for having covert cynos disregard cyno jammers. I would prefer not to have a blockade running being used as a covert ops/recon "We worship Strength because it is through strength that all other values are made possible"
Vaal Erit Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2008.10.29 06:08:00 - [88] Blockade runners getting cov ops cloaks essentially makes it easy mode to do the instawarp trick. I don't like it, but cloaking instawarp is a dumb mechanic. When you go through low sec, you should be at risk. Being invincible just because you have a cloak, bah. Making a ship designed to be a cloaking transport is a good idea. I don't like it that killing enemy logistics is getting harder and harder (jump freighters/rorqs/cov ops haulers) but logistics is boring. I'd rather make logistics less soul destroying but that is just me. I really wish you'd let these cov ops transport ships use the black ops jump portal, that'd be very interesting I think? -- http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html
Roemy Schneider BINFORD	Posted - 2008.10.29 06:08:00 - [89] do ice miners still stop immediately if the cargo is completely full? like... not even starting the next cycle - putting the gist back into logistics
White eyed	Posted - 2008.10.29 07:02:00 - [90] Finnaly some love to the mackinaw. Can actually fit all t2 items relating to ice mining on there and some sort of tank. On a side note: now fix ghost training which now so convientely got pushed of the dev blog main page. And with fix I mean make it a bug again.
Shirrath	Posted - 2008.10.29 07:07:00 - [91] Edited by: Shirrath on 29/10/2008 07:09:48 Blockade runner changes are right on the money, and the new bonuses reinforce the way runners are used now. The runners are currently decent in evading small gatecamps in lowsec, but are quite vulnerable in a bubble. A good interceptor pilot will still be able to catch a blockade runner after these changes, which is as it should be. If you get caught, you're dead. The ability to use jump portals made by black ops battleships sounds interesting, but it depends on the black ops getting looked at as well. Being able to resupply guerrilla operations in enemy cynojammed systems would be fun. I'm not too sure about the deep space transport changes, though. Those are too vulnerable now to be used in lowsec without sacrificing the main benefit of extra cargo space. It should be difficult, but not impossible for a determined pirate to take down a deep space transport before it warps away. It's hard to evaluate whether that is the case here without seeing some numbers. Edit: Quote: GIVE THE PROWLER ITS BLUE DISCO ENGINE BACK! Seriously. That, or more rust.
Mad Ilya Erasers inc. Bionic Dawn	Posted - 2008.10.29 07:12:00 - [92] Good changes (for a change). Nice to see them getting more of a real role and useful bonuses. Tho, as said Quote: To improve them we refocused on stealth rather than agility. - The agility of a BR was a great thing for most hauling things, I really hope you don't put them into another extreme. - As mentioned somewhere, take a look how propulsion mods are used with these ships; can they fit MWD or are they even supposed to?
Oasio	Posted - 2008.10.29 07:34:00 - [93] -Blockade runner. Very very good. Those and covops are the ships i enjoy flying the most, this is great, fun, and usefull. To those who say they will become ever more hard to catch. Remenber this is going alongside the speed/agility remapping. They can now and will in the future be caught, but it is and will be hard, as it should be. I may ' have to' train for black ops now :) -Deep space transport Small changes, but usefull. The only time i lost a DST (beside a rather stupid mistake-induced loss) was when a bc jumped right after me from high-sec to low-sec. My scout was useless in that situation, 2 point of warp core and a bit more buffer would probably have saved me. -mining barge: I haven't mined in a while, but those changes seems nice. Oasio

Chribba Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire	Posted - 2008.10.29 07:38:00 - [94] ooO This is something I very much look forward to! Covert covert covert! Secure 3rd party service ■ Veldspar

Dibsi Dei Salamyhkaisten kilta	Posted - 2008.10.29 07:41:00 - [95] Originally by: VicturusTeSaluto Worst idea I've ever heard, CCP. You are trying to reward people for being stupid rather than for doing things properly. CCP, have you ever even used a cov ops ship? Do you know how transports already work and how fast they align? How is it a good idea to put those two together? It's nearly impossible to lose a transport as it stands. If one properly executes MWD+cloak+align+decloak+warp they are damned safe as it is. No matter how much sensor boosting you use, you really never get the chance to lock them. You can hope to get a lucky bump or decloak every great once in a while- but they execute this maneuver so quickly that the chance of killing them is very small. This is all part of a larger problem. CCP intends to make combat highly unlikely to ever occur and damned near impossible for non-consensual combat to ever occur. Changes like this and the suicide gank nerf are just symptomatic of a larger problem. It was only possible to get suicide ganked if YOU made a MISTAKE. Currently, it's only possible to lose a transport ship if YOU make a MISTAKE. They work fine and are damn-near uncatchable. Even most bubble camps wouldn't have a chance of catching a transport with a cov ops cloak. Just MWD +cloak and burn out of the bubble and warp. On top of that you want them to use jump portals because using a cov ops cloak isn't enough? It's almost impossible to lose a ship while using a cov ops cloak. We already have carriers, dreads, rorquals and jump freighters to move stuff around with near-invulnerability. We don't need invincible ships that warp like an interceptor while cloaked. Other changes in this direction? The "speed nerf" which makes tackling much less likely to occur- tackling is 99% of the game. So much for EVE being a harsh, unforgiving world. You are going the wrong way. This post right here. Remove stupid things like jump portals and jump freighters. Just imagine how much more lively eve would be without these Effort 0% Safety 100% iWin buttons.
Sathrai No Quarter. Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2008.10.29 08:03:00 - [96] Blockade runners are now insane. This is pretty awesome, but I vaguely feel that it is almost too good. They were already fantastically nimble little things which could survive all kinds of havoc. With a covops cloak...brrrr. On the other hand, I kinda feel sorry for the Occator and Impel in regards to getting a fitting bonus for armor plates. Those plates will have to fight with cargo expanders and agility mods for low slots, while the Bustard and Mastodon will be slapping on their oversized shield extenders without a second thought - the only other things going in those mids would be hardeners and propulsion mods anyways. Unless we're going for a "Bustard and Mastodon are more survivable; Impel and Occator carry more" dynamic?
Ishina Fel Caldari Synergy. Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2008.10.29 08:04:00 - [97] Edited by: Ishina Fel on 29/10/2008 08:05:09 Nice blog Chronotis. While I despise cloaking in all forms (can't gank what I can't see ), the DST and Mackinaw changes are good. There is however one concern left unaddressed... ...the fact that the Procurer is matched, if not outclassed, by ships which require much less skillpoint investment, namely the Caldari and Minmatar mining cruisers. Is this by design? If so, the Procurer could really use some form of added perk that might make it useful, such as sharing the Skiff's +2 warp strength bonus. In fact, considering the Skiff isn't meant to mine anything but Mercoxit in deep 0.0, I would say the warp strength bonus is actually /less/ justified on it. The Procurer would be a classical low SP vessel for first forays into lowsec, therefore getting a lot of mileage out of such a bonus. (Also, the Crane really needs one or two extra base powergrid )
Hirana Yoshida Behavioral Affront	Posted - 2008.10.29 08:14:00 - [98] Wow, you are really pulling out all the stops for this one, you promised a carebear expansion and one must say you are doing the damnedest for it to be the most caring of all. You are not going to reduce the blockade runners speed/agility or some such nonsense when you add th cloak are you? And are you sure the +2 WarpCore on the Transports will help them navigate bubbles, they are already slugs without plating?
Shirrath	Posted - 2008.10.29 08:20:00 - [99] Originally by: Dibsi Dei This post right here. Remove stupid things like jump portals and jump freighters. Just imagine how much more lively eve would be without these Effort 0% Safety 100% iWin buttons. I think I see where you're going with this: You want convoys, right? Unfortunately, the risk/reward ratio makes hiring protection for a hauler rather unprofitable, and carriers/rorquals/dreads/jfs do indeed skew the ratio even further. However, increasing the risk by making haulers more vulnerable is only a part of the solution. The reward needs to change as well. Otherwise long-distance hauling will simply.. stop and tradeable goods are manufactured in-house. The life of a pirate/privateer would be even more boring then. One possible solution to this would be to increase the differences in raw materials acquired in different regions. Moving L4 agents to lowsec would be a start.
Elissen Amarr Serenity Inc	Posted - 2008.10.29 08:22:00 - [100] Seems like I have to update the Jumpplanner soon(tm) ---- Jumpplanner 3rd anniversary: giveaway Jumpplanner
Serenity2005 Gallente Jem ' Haddar	Posted - 2008.10.29 08:28:00 - [101] One of you better day's in thinking of improving ships! Cheers, very good.
Rastafari 08	Posted - 2008.10.29 08:31:00 - [102] Originally by: Battlecheese Get yourself some 10MN Digital Booster Rockets -> Crane becomes uber. 3 on contract 180 mil buyout 200 mil buyout 400 mil buy now idiot And as HIC's have been mentioned in all this, how about fixing the graphic of when they have thier bubble running, as its not visable even with all effects turned on.
Darth Felin	Posted - 2008.10.29 08:31:00 - [103] Excellent blog and, and great changes. Still I am unsure about exact DST changes, are you sure that they need this +2 bonus, also it will be great for Shield based DST to have more than 3 medium slots, even at the expense of valuable low slot, maybe small increase in cargo will be apropriate for it as well.
Helison Gallente GREY COUNCIL Imorral Dragons	Posted - 2008.10.29 08:40:00 - [104] Blockade Runner: Nice boost, but they were already good ships. Deep Space Transports: Hmmm, don¦t know. Armor tanked DSTs are losing in this. Either you¦re splitting your lowslots for a mediocre armor-tank/buffer or you stay with a shield-tank/buffer. None is really useable. The +2 warpcore is pretty useless, specially in 0.0. Mackinaw: needed fix Skiff: won¦t change much in their low popularity Rorq: don¦t see any numbers, but nice anyway. Generally the changes are much smaller like I expected. Nothing really exceptional. I would have loved to see a general change to cargo-expander and cargo-rigs. They stack much too good. On the other side I would have loved a massive boost in base cargo-capacity of most industrials (except blockade runners). Furthermore a HP-boost for T1 industrials (on structure?) would have been great to improve their changes against suicide-attacks a bit. Let¦s see if the Orca fills the current hole between industrials and freighters, but I think that their is still place for another ship (can also be a boosted and transformed deep space transport).
Una D Ex Coelis The Bantam Menace	Posted - 2008.10.29 08:43:00 - [105] Originally by: Sathrai Blockade runners are now insane. This is pretty awesome, but I vaguely feel that it is almost too good. They were already fantastically nimble little things which could survive all kinds of havoc. With a covops cloak...brrrr. On the other hand, I kinda feel sorry for the Occator and Impel in regards to getting a fitting bonus for armor plates. Those plates will have to fight with cargo expanders and agility mods for low slots, while the Bustard and Mastodon will be slapping on their oversized shield extenders without a second thought - the only other things going in those mids would be hardeners and propulsion mods anyways. Unless we're going for a "Bustard and Mastodon are more survivable; Impel and Occator carry more" dynamic? Well it would be one of the few times shield tank is prefered. Usually it's armor tank or shut up.
IR Scoutar Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2008.10.29 08:44:00 - [106] certainly interesting but very very unrefined i think change to blockade runners would potentialy make it too overpowered id look for alternate ways to make it allmost imune from sensor boosted HIC's in lowsec and bubbles in 0.0 as for transports if you go for maximum cargo capacity and maximum possible buffertank with whats already possible the shield "tanking" transports already win because they can fit tanking mods in the first place and if you where to fit an aproximate buffertank (ignoring that its currently not possible : eft to the rescue) your cargo capacity is cut in half and according to eft arround 10k less than their shield tanking brothers its good to know that your activly playing with the idea of giving those ships a buff but you still have lots of work to do on the drawing bord
Shadowsword COLSUP Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2008.10.29 08:50:00 - [107] Great changes. ------------------------------------------
Mikal Drey Minmatar ORIGIN SYSTEMS Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2008.10.29 08:54:00 - [108] Originally by: someone above this post somewhere Mastodon + Bustard as shield tankers??? with 3 mid slots??? (compared to 6/7 low slots for armor tanking occator/impel)??? apart from this everything looks good. Prowler still keeps its agility so should indeed benefit from the cloak and the stabby bonus might not be missed. weirdly my prowler had 3x shield extenders on her to help provide a buffer should it get shot at before warping :/ Mastodon kinda becomes the new blockade runner if you add extenders and then crank in istabs in the lows. but certainly /signed for the lacking mids for it though overall little change but more constructive is the way forward. what i was actually looking forward to was changes to industrials to have a more balanced cargo bay. the mammoth/mastodon gap isnt worth the jump even with the shiny new bonuses. and the jump to JF/F is extreme and not cost effective. seemingly the whole mini freighter idea has been completely overlooked in favor of "specialized bays" which will most likely be the usual SoonÖ it seems a shame that this industrial patch wasnt more focused on actually having industrial shininess. if you guys look at the orcas layout and cargo abilities new industrial changes should be along those lines as its kinda perfect for a high tiered hauler without the need to go capital sized.
Sathrai No Quarter. Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2008.10.29 08:54:00 - [109] Originally by: Una D Originally by: Sathrai Blockade runners are now insane. This is pretty awesome, but I vaguely feel that it is almost too good. They were already fantastically nimble little things which could survive all kinds of havoc. With a covops cloak...brrrr. On the other hand, I kinda feel sorry for the Occator and Impel in regards to getting a fitting bonus for armor plates. Those plates will have to fight with cargo expanders and agility mods for low slots, while the Bustard and Mastodon will be slapping on their oversized shield extenders without a second thought - the only other things going in those mids would be hardeners and propulsion mods anyways. Unless we're going for a "Bustard and Mastodon are more survivable; Impel and Occator carry more" dynamic? Well it would be one of the few times shield tank is prefered. Usually it's armor tank or shut up. Most nano ships use shield buffer tanks! Oh wait, they won't exist anymore after the patch.
Garia666 Amarr T.H.U.G L.I.F.E White Core	Posted - 2008.10.29 08:55:00 - [110] Its already almost impossible to kill a viator already.. let alone have it cloacked.. i realy dont think this is an good change. as it now becomes the iwin button for hauling.. www.garia.net
FireFoxx80 Caldari E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2008.10.29 08:55:00 - [111] Originally by: DevBlog ...they gain a significant edge in being able to cloak and move away fast if within a bubble... Rly? I cba to look up the BR's stats this morning, but I suspect they are a lot slower and less agile than traditional cloaking ships (covops, bombers, recons; I won't include blackops as they arent meant to use gates). Considering that an average sized gatecamp (5+) can usually decloak a ship without too much effort, I suspect we'll be seeing a lot more dead BRs. The suggestion of making then negate an interdiction bubble (not MobileWD), is the best alternative so far. What I do the rest of the time - Vote for a Jita bypass!
Louis deGuerre Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2008.10.29 08:56:00 - [112] I think the changes are good but they do nothing for me. What I need is a hauler with five times the cargo size at least without having to spend 1 billion on a freighter. But of course, everyone gets their second account for hauling so this will never happen sigh. -------------------------------------------------- If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles - Sun Tzu
Alex Harumichi Gallente Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2008.10.29 08:58:00 - [113] Originally by: Sathrai On the other hand, I kinda feel sorry for the Occator and Impel in regards to getting a fitting bonus for armor plates. Those plates will have to fight with cargo expanders and agility mods for low slots, while the Bustard and Mastodon will be slapping on their oversized shield extenders without a second thought - the only other things going in those mids would be hardeners and propulsion mods anyways. Love these changes (my Transports 4 might actually now be useful, gasp :), but the above point is a valid one: the armor tanking DSTs are at a severe disadvantage here. The only reason to fly a DST over a blockade runner is cargo cap -- and here you'll have plates competing for the extremely valuable lows that you'd normally fill with expanders. The shield tankers can fill their mids with tank with no harm to cargo cap. Haven't done the maths on these with regards to max capacity with or without a plate / extender, so can't say what the balance is right now... but it should checked, at least. Anyway, nice changes (not optimal, but nice). As every t2 indy pilot knows, up to now training Transports above 1 has been pretty useless (yeah, I have it higher "just because", but there's no sense in that :).
Una D Ex Coelis The Bantam Menace	Posted - 2008.10.29 08:59:00 - [114] Originally by: Sathrai Originally by: Una D Originally by: Sathrai Blockade runners are now insane. This is pretty awesome, but I vaguely feel that it is almost too good. They were already fantastically nimble little things which could survive all kinds of havoc. With a covops cloak...brrrr. On the other hand, I kinda feel sorry for the Occator and Impel in regards to getting a fitting bonus for armor plates. Those plates will have to fight with cargo expanders and agility mods for low slots, while the Bustard and Mastodon will be slapping on their oversized shield extenders without a second thought - the only other things going in those mids would be hardeners and propulsion mods anyways. Unless we're going for a "Bustard and Mastodon are more survivable; Impel and Occator carry more" dynamic? Well it would be one of the few times shield tank is prefered. Usually it's armor tank or shut up. Most nano ships use shield buffer tanks! Oh wait, they won't exist anymore after the patch. Even without nerf I didn't say it's always armour tank or shut up ;) I like the new changes but if agility gets ganked for BRs I'll be very sad. I enjoy traveling in one at all times and making it less agile is going to hurt. Still it's a boost to black ops and they really need it so I could probably live with that :)
Alex Harumichi Gallente Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2008.10.29 09:04:00 - [115] Originally by: Garia666 Its already almost impossible to kill a viator already.. let alone have it cloacked.. i realy dont think this is an good change. as it now becomes the iwin button for hauling.. Well, it's already pretty impossible to catch a competent blockade runner (at least without a bubble), so I don't see this changing all too much. As for "iwin button"... well, yes, but only for very small cargoes. Remember that the things have a tiny cargo cap, compared to other industrials. So now you can choose to move small amounts of cargo with max safety -- but it will take you forever and a day to move large amounts that way. So for anything with volume, you'll need to use t1 indies, DSTs, freighters or other much-easier-to-catch things. That sounds balanced to me. You choose either near-zero risk but tons of work, or higher risk but much, much less work (as a hauler).
Alex Harumichi Gallente Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2008.10.29 09:20:00 - [116] Another thing occurs to me about the new DST bonus. There are two things you always want to fit on a DST: a proto/impro cloak and an MWD. All hauler pilots should know why that is, so I won't expand on it any more here, but just state it as a fact: you always, always, always want a cloak and an mwd. Now, given that fact... can you really fit a shield extender or a plate on the things in addition to the mwd, gridwise, even with the new fitting bonus? If yes, then things are fine. If not, then the new bonus is just as worthless as the old one. An MWD is worth more than a slightly bigger buffer in almost all cases, when we're talking lowsec hauling, for several reasons. If fitting a decent plate + mwd requires Transports V then so be it. I just want to know if it's possible.
Thraxon Black-Sun Frontal Impact	Posted - 2008.10.29 09:41:00 - [117] Hmmm, I not really fond of the changes to the blockade runners. I'll explain why. I use my blockade runner (viator) a lot to move stuff from empire to 0.0 and back, when I need to move it immediately. I always fit my blockade runner with a cloaking device and a microwarpdrive. The rest of mids I usually fill up with shield extenders and the lows have cargo expanders or agility mods, depending on the amount of cargo I need to move. Now I do find myself in a gatecamp every now and then. The way I traverse this gatecamp allways work as follows: I align to some point, hit the cloak then hit the microwarpdrive. Now I will get a single burst of the mwd while cloaked. This is usually enough to coast out of a bubble if there are any. Now when I'm coasted out of the bubble I decloak, and because I'm aligned, I insta-warp to my destination. This works well most of the time. The only problem that can occur, is when a ship is able to decloak me before I coast out of the bubble. When this happens I re-spank the mwd again to get me out of the bubble asap. When this situation occurs fast ships like interceptors are usually able to lock me up and scramble me. The +2 warp strength can save your ass lot's of times in this situation, where you have one or two interceptors tackling you. So in my opionion being able to warp cloaked doesn't help much in survivabilty, while the +2 warp strength does.
Cailais Amarr VITOC	Posted - 2008.10.29 10:06:00 - [118] Some excellent changes - especially for the blockade runners. It will be very interesting to see the impact on the low sec market if these changes make it to TQ. Potentially the blockade runners make trading in low sec, and .0 a really viable proposition. The Blockade runners ability to utilise the black ops jump portal again is a really useful addition. Didnt realise the skiff had a +2 scram strength, I think Ill get one of those now! C. Originally by: Tarminic Your continued whining is somewhat diminished by your continued willingness to give your money to CCP.
doesnotcompute	Posted - 2008.10.29 10:08:00 - [119] Originally by: Alex Harumichi There are two things you always want to fit on a DST: a proto/impro cloak and an MWD. All hauler pilots should know why that is, so I won't expand on it any more here, but just state it as a fact: you always, always, always want a cloak and an mwd. Why? Don't have either on my bustard - just went with passive insane hp tank for afk hauling. Just don't expensive stuff with warp-to-zeroing.
Alex Harumichi Gallente Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2008.10.29 10:17:00 - [120] Originally by: doesnotcompute Originally by: Alex Harumichi There are two things you always want to fit on a DST: a proto/impro cloak and an MWD. All hauler pilots should know why that is, so I won't expand on it any more here, but just state it as a fact: you always, always, always want a cloak and an mwd. Why? Don't have either on my bustard - just went with passive insane hp tank for afk hauling. Just don't expensive stuff with warp-to-zeroing. I was talking about lowsec / 0.0 hauling. In highsec, sure, you need neither of those and a big buffer is best to help vs suicide gankers. But in lowsec or 0.0, which is the intended use case for these ships, things are different. You need MWD for two things: 1) getting a fast align & warp, with the cloak + MWD trick. That's your best bet for surviving a (non-bubble) gate camp. 2) if option (1) isn't viable, sometimes running back to the gate is an option. In that case, an MWD gives you much better chances of survival than some extra buffer would. Without an MWD, your only hope is to cloak and slowboat away. Since a DST with cloak is slow (as in: freighter-class slow), any competent gate camp will catch you via one of several methods. But it can work, now and then. Not all gate camps are competent.
DFox31 North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2008.10.29 10:31:00 - [121] Sweet, so ships designed to transport stuff can warp while cloaked but a STEALTH bomber cannot.
Mikal Drey Minmatar ORIGIN SYSTEMS Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2008.10.29 10:35:00 - [122] Originally by: DFox31 Sweet, so ships designed to transport stuff can warp while cloaked but a STEALTH bomber cannot. dont worry. one day ccp will see the light and make everything thats actually a covert ship use a covert cloak. then proceed to nerf protos and improved to make them scannable. but then i digress . . . nice changes :)
Col Callahan Caldari Oberon Incorporated Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2008.10.29 10:39:00 - [123] Good marks across all the boards....couldn't be happier. _
zzbooks	Posted - 2008.10.29 10:47:00 - [124] " bonus to the power needs of shield extenders (Bustard and Mastodon) or armor plates (Impel and Occator)" Low slots usually have Istabs and cargo expanders in, so the armor tankers will not see much benifit from this, I shield tank my Occator. A shield bonus or armour amount/resistance bonus would be more useful.
Waxau Mortis Angelus The Church.	Posted - 2008.10.29 11:04:00 - [125] Personally, im against this change. Dont get me wrong, id love a boost to black ops, and this is needed. However, there is no reason why a blockade runner should get a cov ops cloak, when not even a black ops has a cov ops cloak. Blockade runners atm are near enough invincible, if fitted correctly. For example, i was in low sec in the last 2 mins of downtime. And an RA Prorator just got past my onyx, with a scan res of 1.5k. Combined with this, is the 'cloaking' trick, where any ship can warp past a lowsec gatecamp with zero effort, and 100% survivability. All this change will do, is make logistics easier. Heck, if you're in 0.0, you just jumpbridge your hauler to low sec, and move him through. You're invincible in low sec, so no worry there. Black ops need these ships imo to have a slight boost to their role (make no mistake, it doesnt fix black ops to ANY extent). However, a covvert cloak is not needed. An improved cloak, with a speed bonus perhaps (like black ops, stealth bombers, sure). But this change will remove ANY logistics disruption/hauler kills pirates get.
Jack Mancetti Minmatar Rennfeuer	Posted - 2008.10.29 11:06:00 - [126] Macro Iceminer are be happy to push their Cargo and the agility from T2 cargoships looks like a Turtle,there the problem with this ships and i think +2 warpstrength will do it not very better.
AL GHAZI	Posted - 2008.10.29 11:12:00 - [127] OMG, woot, yippy skippy, and hooray a blockade runner with cloaking and covert cyno'ing. That is some hot sext time goodness. +++
Orgell Evaan Minmatar Meridian Dynamics Violent-Tendencies	Posted - 2008.10.29 11:27:00 - [128] Originally by: El'essar Viocragh Oh, and while we're at it: GIVE THE PROWLER ITS BLUE DISCO ENGINE BACK! Seriously. QFT (In polyester suit and platform shoes)
Rude Bwoy	Posted - 2008.10.29 12:02:00 - [129] with the blockade runner equiping a cloak i can see getting through gates much easier (even if bubbled). What about when leaving stations - because you will be 0km from station for some time before you can cloak up. Is there a time period you can't be locked that is enough to warp off? Who's the rudest of them all!
Waxau Mortis Angelus The Church.	Posted - 2008.10.29 12:08:00 - [130] I think its been mentioned already btw, but why is it blockade runners can fit covert cloaks, yet black ops cant? I cant see the 'actual' logic in that, when one is MADE to be stealthy, and the other is meant to haul.
Kastal British Legion	Posted - 2008.10.29 12:39:00 - [131] Good work! Though i do like the idea of ninja can jacking! :P _ Ordinarily he was insane, but he had lucid moments when he was merely stupid. GBR is Recruiting!
Garia666 Amarr T.H.U.G L.I.F.E White Core	Posted - 2008.10.29 12:57:00 - [132] Edited by: Garia666 on 29/10/2008 12:58:42 Originally by: Alex Harumichi Originally by: Garia666 Its already almost impossible to kill a viator already.. let alone have it cloacked.. i realy dont think this is an good change. as it now becomes the iwin button for hauling.. Well, it's already pretty impossible to catch a competent blockade runner (at least without a bubble), so I don't see this changing all too much. As for "iwin button"... well, yes, but only for very small cargoes. Remember that the things have a tiny cargo cap, compared to other industrials. So now you can choose to move small amounts of cargo with max safety -- but it will take you forever and a day to move large amounts that way. So for anything with volume, you'll need to use t1 indies, DSTs, freighters or other much-easier-to-catch things. That sounds balanced to me. You choose either near-zero risk but tons of work, or higher risk but much, much less work (as a hauler). I agree but you shouldnt have an i win ship if u ask meh.. It took me over 2 weeks to finaly get this guy.. http://www.whitecore.org/killboard/index.php?a=kill_detail&kll_id=1788 He got a way every single time.. finaly with an bubble a dictor and an alt with 4 webs i managed to kill this guy.. If they can warp cloacked now it will be nearly impossible. www.garia.net
Darth Felin	Posted - 2008.10.29 13:03:00 - [133] Edited by: Darth Felin on 29/10/2008 13:04:41 Originally by: Garia666 Edited by: Garia666 on 29/10/2008 12:58:42 Originally by: Alex Harumichi Originally by: Garia666 Its already almost impossible to kill a viator already.. let alone have it cloacked.. i realy dont think this is an good change. as it now becomes the iwin button for hauling.. Well, it's already pretty impossible to catch a competent blockade runner (at least without a bubble), so I don't see this changing all too much. As for "iwin button"... well, yes, but only for very small cargoes. Remember that the things have a tiny cargo cap, compared to other industrials. So now you can choose to move small amounts of cargo with max safety -- but it will take you forever and a day to move large amounts that way. So for anything with volume, you'll need to use t1 indies, DSTs, freighters or other much-easier-to-catch things. That sounds balanced to me. You choose either near-zero risk but tons of work, or higher risk but much, much less work (as a hauler). I agree but you shouldnt have an i win ship if u ask meh.. It took me over 2 weeks to finaly get this guy.. http://www.whitecore.org/killboard/index.php?a=kill_detail&kll_id=1788 He got a way every single time.. finaly with an bubble a dictor and an alt with 4 webs i managed to kill this guy.. If they can warp cloacked now it will be nearly impossible. It is hard to catch them with 1-2 pilots for sure, but usually gatecamps have more people and things looks different then )
roq deelim	Posted - 2008.10.29 13:23:00 - [134] well the blockade runners are a+ BUT the deep space indys still need tweaking. you argumented that nearly nobody used tanking bonuses...while shield extender may be ok since you still can have maximum number of cargo extenders in your lowslots, armorplates are a completely another story. first you have to sacrifice lowslots used for cargo extenders. second thingy is that with armor plates the dst-ships that allready are agile as a wallbrick will be glued in a spot with plates fitted. and btw. once you are in a bubble an extender/plate won't save you. it just may taken 5-10 seconds loger till you die. remember that the only arguments wich apply to dst are their ability for mwd and their big cargohold. so if you try to maximize the cargohold you won't fit armor plates. a thingy that is not mentioned in the blog. my oppinion is that a t2 indy should be superior in cargohold capacity to their t1 counterparts. this is not allways the matter. i don't have exact numbers atm. but i.e. iteron mk5 and occator. with all lowslots fitted t2 cargo expanders + cargohold optimization rigs the iteron mk5 has about 38,5k cargohold and the occator about 35k m¦. in most cases the difference is not really that important, but with my understanding of t2 ships they should be better than t1 counterparts when comparing their key abilities - in this case cargohold capacity. ps: sorry for my bad english..
Jacque Custeau Knights of the Minmatar Republic	Posted - 2008.10.29 13:35:00 - [135] Edited by: Jacque Custeau on 29/10/2008 13:39:06 Originally by: El'essar Viocragh Oh, and while we're at it: GIVE THE PROWLER ITS BLUE DISCO ENGINE BACK! Seriously. QFT. The Neon lights are a MUST! I use blockade runners all the time, I can't say that I like the changes. I would have preferred the following: 1. Blockade runner speed, agility and mass stay the same after the patch (i.e they dont get nerfed) 2. Blockade runners get the stealth bomber cloak velocity bonus, not the cov ops II cloak. -------------------
Maraleith Gallente The Culture Holding Corporation	Posted - 2008.10.29 13:47:00 - [136] So if I understand this correctly - Blockade Runners will get an agility NERF but become covert ops ships? If so, then the quick warp away will not be as simple as I would expect the current exceptional agility/speed will get a big nerf to make up for the cloak. Is that right? If so, the best use of these ships will be to haul fuel and PoS's in contested systems...... Now Black Ops really gets a buff....it will become very important to have a black ops logistics squad ready to ninja tower spam.
Maraleith Gallente The Culture Holding Corporation	Posted - 2008.10.29 13:47:00 - [137] Edited by: Maraleith on 29/10/2008 13:47:38 oops
Matrix Skye Caldari	Posted - 2008.10.29 13:50:00 - [138] Originally by: Bellum Eternus Edited by: Bellum Eternus on 29/10/2008 02:36:18 This is the dumbest ideas CCP has come up with yet. And I'm skilled up to use both Caldari and Gallente T2 haulers. The ships are hard enough to catch already. And now you just want them to be able to be used with impunity? Does CCP just want everyone except those in combat ships to operate in complete safety? I know that the developers and game design guys aren't idiots, so that must mean that they're doing this on purpose, just to ** us off. WTF is wrong with you people? Trying to be constructive: Now when anyone (me) wants to move high value cargo (billions in officer mods) through empire, or anywhere else for that matter, I just hop in my Crane or Viator and go. Nothing can stop me, you can't see me, I fit a couple stabs for good measure, unless I lag out on a session change, I'm unstoppable. How is this good gameplay CCP? Eve wasn't safe enough for the moron Carebears that couldn't figure out how to not be killed, so you had to hand them a solution on a plate? The dev team doesn't make any sense anymore. Typical of you really. For someone who hates carebears as much as you, you certainly whine as much as one, if not more. To CCP: 2 thumbs way up! Originally by:** Ki An PS. You're full of vitrol and hate... You're socially inept... You're so completely impotent in game... spewing venom over everyone... ^^ One of my "fans" .
Talurit	Posted - 2008.10.29 13:50:00 - [139] First off, beautiful changes, CCP. Thank you for working on a problem that has been a big issue for a long time. Secondly, while you're working, please look at the Crane. It's the only BR that can't fit a MWD. There are plenty of threads already about this. Originally by: CCP Chronotis Deep Space Transports To revamp their role we gave them the +2 warp strength of the Blockade Runners... With these changes we hope that the extra warp strength and HP tank will greatly aid their use in all areas of space especially in empire where they have less to worry about with no bubbled camps to have to run through and only the heavy interdictors as their nemesis. I'm confused. In what way does +2 warp strength help against the lowsec HID with a focused point?
Evlyna	Posted - 2008.10.29 13:56:00 - [140] Originally by: Chribba ooO This is something I very much look forward to! Covert covert covert! Chribba likes it... so it must be good!
Iosue Eve University Ivy League	Posted - 2008.10.29 13:58:00 - [141] Great changes CCP! Especially like the plans for the blockade runners. Actually starting to look foward to QR now.
TimGascoigne The Graduates Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2008.10.29 14:18:00 - [142] Edited by: TimGascoigne on 29/10/2008 14:20:48 these changes will give the Black Ops battleship the boost it desperately needed. now that enough fuel can be provided for thanks to the blockade runner. The DST ships it's now perfect for sovereignty attacking fleets. As they have enough cargo capacity to set up large POS towers and have enough hit points to be used in conjunction with Logistics ships and RR BSs to survive jumping through a gate and getting out of the fight to that precious strategic moon.
Zaknussem Caldari The Ironbreakers	Posted - 2008.10.29 14:18:00 - [143] Mackinaw changes are good. Blockade Runner changes are...interesting, but they puzzle me. They certainly make the Black Ops ships more feasible. Beyond that, I don't really see the point in making this change. Blockade Runners are hard to catch by design. After this change they're still hard to catch, but for different reasons. Deep Space Transports, however, only get a marginal gain from this change. They're more likely to survive a gate camp, but not by much. Sadly, I still don't see a reason to train Transport Ships beyond Level 1. The reasons have been mentioned in this thread: Other, safer means of hauling are available. Granted, I still haven't seen the actual numbers for the Shield Extender/Armour Plating fittings, but regardless...
Vigilant Gallente Vigilant's Vigilante's	Posted - 2008.10.29 14:27:00 - [144] Like the changes, see blockade runners being the ship of choice for carebears. Also, buy orders in low security will increase a lot, which means at least there will be more traffic, more cloaked traffic though.
Lord Flux	Posted - 2008.10.29 14:43:00 - [145] Wow! great job CCP, way to take some more adventure out of the game. We the balance! shall balance everything! to be balanced! for the greater balancing of the balance.......Balance <---CCP???
Zhula Guixgrixks Increasing Success by Lowering Expectations Vanguard.	Posted - 2008.10.29 14:44:00 - [146] Originally by: Waxau Blockade runners atm are near enough invincible, if fitted correctly. For example, i was in low sec in the last 2 mins of downtime. And an RA Prorator just got past my onyx, with a scan res of 1.5k. Yes you are right. I'm succesfully using a Prorator (poly) for ages. Never had problems in Low-Sec. So not very much changes for low-sec atm. Deep Space changes: Good idea to swap active repair bonus to +2 wcs. More place for cargo expander now \o/ Overall: For 0.0 it is a nice boost. Not a overkill, but nice. @CCP , BIG logistics: when we can hope for a capital size giant interdictor to "camp" cyno/bridge routes ???
Moon Dogg Gallente The Arrow Project Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2008.10.29 14:45:00 - [147] Originally by: DFox31 Sweet, so ships designed to transport stuff can warp while cloaked but a STEALTH bomber cannot. This. I'm fine with the changes, but the fact that a hauler gets the ability to use a covert ops cloak before a stealth bomber is just...odd. *********************************** "Burn the land, boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me..."
Great Smirnov	Posted - 2008.10.29 14:56:00 - [148] Edited by: Great Smirnov on 29/10/2008 14:59:46 Blockade runners - good overall idea. Still the low slots will be used for expanders and cloaked ship can be easily decloaked, so speed bonus to accelerate in to warp faster or agility bonus to align in to warp faster should help or bonus to reducing the signature like interceptors which would extend the locking time. Deep Space Transports - also good overall, but overall resistance bonus would be more usefull. No one will ever fit in lowslots anything else but expanders, so even amarr and gallente transporters have to rely on the shield tank, so bonus resistance like 5% per level on both armor and shield will at least give more chance to survive suicide attacks. Mackinaw - good, at least now should be no mandatory needs for +CPU implants. Skiff - ship still to be too specialized, it need boost for mining yield given the fact that it can only fit 1 harvester, which makes him far less useful than other exhumers. I am still missing highsec carrier that can transport ships. My major concern is that changing area of operations like switching corps or agents means to haul whole the stuff i own from one region to another. I would like to have a ship, that is like mobile base, big hanger able to carry several rigged battle ships and whole the junk you need while having no offensive capabilities at all. Kinda mix of a carrier and freighter. Orca is not an option since it will not be able to carry battleships. I am also still missing dedicated salvager ship. Loot and salvage from a mission can be up to 4k and also it need speed of at least a cruiser since many missions are big. Also bonuses for salvager or tractor range would be useful. And it need at least 6 at best 8 highslots for tractors and salvagers.
Miyamoto Uroki Caldari Katsu Corporation	Posted - 2008.10.29 15:03:00 - [149] Nice changes. Though Blockade runner seems to be a bit too powerful now. Please add more powergrid to the Crane, for the mandatory mwd.
Shard Merchant Minmatar	Posted - 2008.10.29 15:08:00 - [150] Sigh, why do we even have a thread for comments, when everybody knows there is zero chance of retracting a statement like "covert ops cloak for blockade runners". Zero chance. Users of these ships are getting boosted, getting new functionality, and there are no nerfs here. Just plain old boosting. The people who try to argue against it are simply going to get ignored. Because we all know that if CCP removed that ability, they'd get flogged over it, and people would be bringing up the idea of covert ops cloak on blockade runners as the ultimate solution to life's problems.. for years. Lack of bubbles combined with warp to zero and these ships are effectively invincible. And having that in EVE is a bigger problem than whatever issue you're trying to fix with industrials here. We already have that in other cloaking ships, but never for a huge logistics capability. Either way, you're giving people what they want at the expense of game quality.
Lore Varan Caltech Shipyards	Posted - 2008.10.29 15:08:00 - [151] Crane badly needs more grid to fit a mwd. Was ok before with the +2 warp and good agility. But for 0.0 bubble camp gate running it must use mwd which atm is a major pain to fit.
Rev Russ Caldari Nanoprints	Posted - 2008.10.29 15:27:00 - [152] Love the changes!! I think I am going to wet myself
Lili Lu Purveyors of Uber Research Valuables and Ships	Posted - 2008.10.29 15:45:00 - [153] Originally by: Electric Fox I'd like some more discussion on the shield/armor tanking split on the deep space transports. Fitting plates reduces manuverability and fitting shields increases sig radius which bring their own drawbacks. Reduced manuverablilty means it takes longer to warp, providing more time for a tackle and increased sig raduis means you get locked faster. The former affects you for every jump allowing people to try and catch up with you or organise a trip down the pipe. The latter only affects you when you're engaged. Secondly, the Occator and Impel respectively have 6 and 7 low slots whilst the Mastodon and Bustard each have 5. Using up lowslots for armor plates reduces the Occator and Impel's capacity to fit warp core stabs, cargo expanders, nanos or inertia stabs. The respective 1 and 2 mid slots on the Occator and Impel can only be used for afterburner, MWD, cap chargers, cap batteries - basically less useful stuff. Meanwhile, the Mastodon and Bustard, while only having 3 mid slots providing less slots for shield extenders have 5 free low slots for the aformentioned usefulness. The bottom line to this point is that if you're only going to give these ships the power grid to fit up to 2 battlships sized shield extenders/plates then it won't make much difference. Otherwise, the Armor tanking ships are going to have to juggle the balence of their low slots whilst the mid slots don't get used for very much. Oh, fantastic change to the blockade runners by the way. I no longer regret that Viator purchase! I used to do complexes in a Viator as it was allowed through the acceleration gate whilst t1 indies weren't. It now also fills the role of cloaking loot/salvage storage to accompany mates on complexes. Warp in, cloak, wait for all the rats to be killed, have someone else salvage, decloak, scoop jettisoned salvage, recloak, onto the next acceleration gate. This. The way things are now the smart thing to do with the low slots and rig slots on the blockade runners is to fill them with agility, speed, fitting, and mass reduction mods. The mids are always filled with a shield hp buffer or resists. CCP, after your changes the slots will still be used that way. Do any of you fly these things. Do you seriously expect peeps flying the "armor tankers" to make their blockade "runners" bricks by fitting plates in the lows? As to the give more pg to the Caldari Blockade Runner crowd, just fit a MAPC ffs. I have to fit a PDS on my Viator to squeeze a mwd on it. At least you have more slots to supplement your shield tank. Each of the blockade runners has a disability to overcome when you look at them. The Amarr blockade runner has two gaping shield resists and very few mids with which to tank. The Minmatar has fewer non-high slots and a largely useless extra high slot as well as not much pg. You have to be creative and adaptable to overcome each ships drawback. As to the Deep Space Transports, I have not used them. Not sure exactly what the idea is with them. Considering their lack of agility, is the +2 warp strength even worth anything (HIC out-moded that for them too). Don't see them being used as alternate blockade runners. Don't need tanking hauler in 0.0 as the belt will already be tanked. Impel if it's being used is simply stuffed with expanded cargos since it will overtake an Itty V. Don't really care much for them. But if I did I surely would not be fitting plates to the "armor tanking" ones. If you really expect and believe people will fit plates on an Impel, you might want to give it some more agility and speed as the "shield tankers" will not suffer as much from a slight sig radius increase from shield expanders. You need to examine and analyze more how these ships are used and will be used instead of stubbornly insisting on unrealistic backstory ideas of racial differences in ships.
Bellum Eternus Gallente Death of Virtue	Posted - 2008.10.29 15:49:00 - [154] Originally by: Matrix Skye Originally by: Bellum Eternus Edited by: Bellum Eternus on 29/10/2008 02:36:18 This is the dumbest ideas CCP has come up with yet. And I'm skilled up to use both Caldari and Gallente T2 haulers. The ships are hard enough to catch already. And now you just want them to be able to be used with impunity? Does CCP just want everyone except those in combat ships to operate in complete safety? I know that the developers and game design guys aren't idiots, so that must mean that they're doing this on purpose, just to **** us off. WTF is wrong with you people? Trying to be constructive: Now when anyone (me) wants to move high value cargo (billions in officer mods) through empire, or anywhere else for that matter, I just hop in my Crane or Viator and go. Nothing can stop me, you can't see me, I fit a couple stabs for good measure, unless I lag out on a session change, I'm unstoppable. How is this good gameplay CCP? Eve wasn't safe enough for the moron Carebears that couldn't figure out how to not be killed, so you had to hand them a solution on a plate? The dev team doesn't make any sense anymore. Typical of you really. For someone who hates carebears as much as you, you certainly whine as much as one, if not more. To CCP: 2 thumbs way up! I find it amusing that all the seasoned PVPers are against this change, while all of the incompetent carebears (Caldari?) are all for it. Removing risk from Eve is always bad. This is no exception. It further mitigates risk and makes everything easier for the stupid and inept, and this directly hurts those that are smart and imaginative. But I'm sure you wouldn't know what that's like, now would you? Bellum Eternus Inveniam viam aut faciam. [Vid] I M M O R T A L
Miss Marketing University of Caille	Posted - 2008.10.29 15:54:00 - [155] MMMMOAR Carebears Online. Seriously CCP did you fire everyone that worked on the game 2-3 years ago and replaced them with people from Hello Kitty?
Astria Tiphareth Caldari 24th Imperial Crusade	Posted - 2008.10.29 16:02:00 - [156] Originally by: Bellum Eternus I find it amusing that all the seasoned PVPers are against this change, while all of the incompetent carebears (Caldari?) are all for it. Removing risk from Eve is always bad. This is no exception. It further mitigates risk and makes everything easier for the stupid and inept, and this directly hurts those that are smart and imaginative. But I'm sure you wouldn't know what that's like, now would you? Your childish taunting isn't helping your point. Did it ever occur to you that if you acted like an adult, people might listen? Oh and gee thanks for tarring all and sundry (anyone who disagrees with you) as incompetent carebears and especially anyone who's Caldari. What do you do for an encore, call those of a given race stupid in real life? Grow up. Talk sensibly. Someone might listen. ___ My views may not represent those of my corporation, which is why I never get invited to those diplomatic parties... Environmental Effects
Lili Lu Purveyors of Uber Research Valuables and Ships	Posted - 2008.10.29 16:10:00 - [157] CCP, sorry for tone of last post. Overall I do like the addition of the cov ops cloak to replace the largely useless +2 wcs bonus for the blockade runners (because of HICs). It will need to be tested. Cov ops frigs still die to proper and skilled gate camps in 0.0. Expect the same or more will happen to cov ops blockade runners. On the whole there is an advantage (as there probably should be, although whether it should be so pronounced? meh) to the cov ops ship in 0.0 due to it's agility and speed. However, in low sec no bubbles increase that advantage for the cloaker. The yarr crowd needs to wait for testing. I doubt the new blockade runner will be as fast as a cov ops frig. But I do agree the Blockade Runner while having an advatage should not get a free pass in low sec. For the record, I've worked both sides of the gate equation, so don't flame me, piwates pwease
Jin So Red Mercury Incorporated Equilibrium.	Posted - 2008.10.29 16:12:00 - [158] Very Nice, some industry love
Jogvan coracao ardente Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.10.29 16:13:00 - [159] Originally by: Bellum Eternus I find it amusing that all the seasoned PVPers are against this change, while all of the incompetent carebears (Caldari?) are all for it. Removing risk from Eve is always bad. This is no exception. It further mitigates risk and makes everything easier for the stupid and inept, and this directly hurts those that are smart and imaginative. But I'm sure you wouldn't know what that's like, now would you? You racist bastard! Anyway, I enjoy pirating and blowing up haulers but honestly 99% of the time blockade runners get through losec camps and the +2 warp core strength to DST wont change anything because everyone has HICs. Love these changes, especially the ability to use BO bridge
Lili Lu Purveyors of Uber Research Valuables and Ships	Posted - 2008.10.29 16:23:00 - [160] Originally by: Jacque Custeau Edited by: Jacque Custeau on 29/10/2008 13:39:06 Originally by: El'essar Viocragh Oh, and while we're at it: GIVE THE PROWLER ITS BLUE DISCO ENGINE BACK! Seriously. QFT. The Neon lights are a MUST! I use blockade runners all the time, I can't say that I like the changes. I would have preferred the following: 1. Blockade runner speed, agility and mass stay the same after the patch (i.e they dont get nerfed) 2. Blockade runners get the stealth bomber cloak velocity bonus, not the cov ops II cloak. Might be a solution. Would have to keep the +2 wcs bonus though. BR needs something more. Cov ops cloak swap may be too powerful. But as things are now BR trading the useless tanking bonus for the stealth bomber speed bonus and keeping the wcs bonus might be just the fix.
Astria Tiphareth Caldari 24th Imperial Crusade	Posted - 2008.10.29 16:26:00 - [161] Edited by: Astria Tiphareth on 29/10/2008 16:29:52 As to the original topic, the changes are certainly interesting and worth playing out on Sisi to see what works and what doesn't. However, it seems to me that this continued balancing act between hauling and gatecamps is symptomatic of a deeper problem. We have empire, with vast low-end mineral supplies, a massive trade network, and a heavy manufacturing/research base. We have 0.0 with demand for that which empire produces, and 0.0 and low-sec providing moon minerals and reactions for that production. We have haulers trying to move items around, and pirates/enemies trying to stop them. Both sides are playing to win, and a good system will allow, on average across EVE, both sides to win around 50% of the time (over-simplified). We have cloaks and probes, gatecamps and gatecamp runners, blockade runners and heavy interdictors, all of which seem to be all-or-nothing ventures. There's no gradation, no continuum, no tech- or skill-based way to vary one's chances. The cry of the gatecamper is often 'use scouts' which misses a fundamental issue - scouting and finding a gatecamp is different from going through it, which, if the gatecamp is sensibly placed, is often the only choice. What I'd really like to see is going back to the drawing board and asking some fundamental questions: 'what should pirates prey on in low-sec/enemies prey on in 0.0' 'how should haulers/miners avoid pirates' 'how should pirates find haulers/miners'. Listen to the replies in this thread: it's all about extremes - do X and you're invulnerable, do Y and you can always catch them, change Z will make A impossible etc. I'm not seeing an overall result that implies there is player or even EVE-skill involved. I don't mind, indeed I approve of, systems where player thought in advance determines your chances of survival (how you fit your ship, what route you take, whether you've scouted) but I think what is lacking are any ways to vary the outcome at all. We've plumbed the depths of player ingenuity and come up with 'cloak+MWD coasting' along with 'lots of points or interdictor, and huge gatecamps'. Now I think players can be quite ingenious which implies we're lacking real flexibility and tools to be ingenious. Edit: Oh and a fairly obvious point - whilstever the really rich & organised can jump-freighter goods around, this rather makes any hauling changes a tad redundant in terms of really affecting logistics. ___ My views may not represent those of my corporation, which is why I never get invited to those diplomatic parties... Environmental Effects
DrAtomic Atomic Heroes Arcane Alliance	Posted - 2008.10.29 16:27:00 - [162] I think I like the blokkade runner changes. Whilst I welcome the DST buffer changes i'd like to see some added agility, the main issue with using them in 0.0/lowsec is the huge support requirement (if done properly 2 scouts in front, 2 scouts in the back, mobile scout team to keep eye on adjacent systems, websupport to help get into warp, logistics and regular protection), this all boils down to the long time they take clearing a gate. Right now it's far safer and easier to do capjumps then using a DST. - - - Originally by: CCP Wrangler If you can understand our goal, disagree with our solution and offer a solution that is equal or better your opinion has a better chance of being heard...
Matrix Skye Caldari	Posted - 2008.10.29 16:34:00 - [163] Originally by: Bellum Eternus I find it amusing that all the seasoned PVPers are against this change, while all of the incompetent carebears (Caldari?) are all for it. Removing risk from Eve is always bad. This is no exception. It further mitigates risk and makes everything easier for the stupid and inept, and this directly hurts those that are smart and imaginative. But I'm sure you wouldn't know what that's like, now would you? I'm sorry but aren't you the same guy ****ing, screaming and kicking that your "BLASTERS WON'T WTFPWN ANYMORE!!!11! OMG!!1? Not that I think yours is illegitimate, just that it's funny how it's a rightful complaint when it's your own whine, but when it's teh eevil carebearz* "it's a stupid moronic whine from idiots who can't play". Your circular reasoning is simply, ****ed. Good day :). Originally by:** Ki An PS. You're full of vitrol and hate... You're socially inept... You're so completely impotent in game... spewing venom over everyone... ^^ One of my "fans" .
Esmenet	Posted - 2008.10.29 16:43:00 - [164] Now you are invulnerable while hauling in empire/low sec.....
Waxau Mortis Angelus The Church.	Posted - 2008.10.29 16:49:00 - [165] Originally by: Jogvan Originally by: Bellum Eternus I find it amusing that all the seasoned PVPers are against this change, while all of the incompetent carebears (Caldari?) are all for it. Removing risk from Eve is always bad. This is no exception. It further mitigates risk and makes everything easier for the stupid and inept, and this directly hurts those that are smart and imaginative. But I'm sure you wouldn't know what that's like, now would you? You racist bastard! Anyway, I enjoy pirating and blowing up haulers but honestly 99% of the time blockade runners get through losec camps and the +2 warp core strength to DST wont change anything because everyone has HICs. Love these changes, especially the ability to use BO bridge Im looking forward to the bridge ability too tbh, but it truly is dampened by allowing carebears another 'warp to zero' or 'concord buff'. The game is a game of risk, and these ships are currently a real challenge to catch. With these changes, all that will happen, is a challenge is removed, aswell as risk. Might not break eve as such, but certainly changing it from what its currently based on. It being a "cold, harsh evironment"
Aarin Wrath Caldari	Posted - 2008.10.29 16:55:00 - [166] Edited by: Aarin Wrath on 29/10/2008 16:59:43 Wow great changes CCP. I love the BR changes. They will become very hard to kill now. (Even though with their current agility they are just as hard to kill) The skiff and Procurer changes are very good. I would recommend perhaps +1 Warp Core strength on the Procurer. That may make it abit more usefull for ninja miners. Good job ccp. Keep it up! Edit: I would like to add that added utility bonus of Blackops ships is very nice to see. This will make logistics through enemy lines much easier.
Jada Ronin	Posted - 2008.10.29 17:01:00 - [167] all looks good for the indy players ... how about some mining riggs? now that we can move rigged ships about in the orca some good riggs for a hulk would be great
Signati	Posted - 2008.10.29 17:06:00 - [168] Originally by: Esmenet Now you are invulnerable while hauling in empire/low sec..... We already were. No one has EVER killed my crane, and ive done runs thru low sec weekly, and runs thru Null sec quite often. Anyone who says a bubble wont catch them now tho... wrong. Ive seen Cov ops frigs get killed in large bubbles because they couldn't get out before getting found. a BR is gonna be easier to find thats for sure.
Gnulpie Minmatar Miner Tech	Posted - 2008.10.29 17:11:00 - [169] Great news! Especially the changes on the blockade runners plus their ability to use covert ops portals now. Excellent idea.
Meiyang Lee Gallente Azteca Transportation Unlimited Gunboat Diplomacy	Posted - 2008.10.29 17:12:00 - [170] Lovely changes, love my blockade runner now, will love it with those changes. Hopefully the align time won't be nerfed that much, since I quite like its speedy warping. The DST changes might make it useful too, if it gets a little help with its agility (because they are very slow to align already, those plates won't help)
Jamaican Herbsman	Posted - 2008.10.29 17:21:00 - [171] Finally! Ty ccp I wonder if any player knew that skiff already had a hidden +2 warp strenght. But now that i think of it, i've managed to warp away once or twice while npc's had scramble already on me. Thought it was bug or desynch
Cailais Amarr VITOC	Posted - 2008.10.29 17:58:00 - [172] Originally by: Bellum Eternus Originally by: Matrix Skye Originally by: Bellum Eternus Edited by: Bellum Eternus on 29/10/2008 02:36:18 This is the dumbest ideas CCP has come up with yet. And I'm skilled up to use both Caldari and Gallente T2 haulers. The ships are hard enough to catch already. And now you just want them to be able to be used with impunity? Does CCP just want everyone except those in combat ships to operate in complete safety? I know that the developers and game design guys aren't idiots, so that must mean that they're doing this on purpose, just to **** us off. WTF is wrong with you people? Trying to be constructive: Now when anyone (me) wants to move high value cargo (billions in officer mods) through empire, or anywhere else for that matter, I just hop in my Crane or Viator and go. Nothing can stop me, you can't see me, I fit a couple stabs for good measure, unless I lag out on a session change, I'm unstoppable. How is this good gameplay CCP? Eve wasn't safe enough for the moron Carebears that couldn't figure out how to not be killed, so you had to hand them a solution on a plate? The dev team doesn't make any sense anymore. Typical of you really. For someone who hates carebears as much as you, you certainly whine as much as one, if not more. To CCP: 2 thumbs way up! I find it amusing that all the seasoned PVPers are against this change, while all of the incompetent carebears (Caldari?) are all for it. Removing risk from Eve is always bad. This is no exception. It further mitigates risk and makes everything easier for the stupid and inept, and this directly hurts those that are smart and imaginative. But I'm sure you wouldn't know what that's like, now would you? Well its always been possible to move materials with minimum risk - capitals, jump bridges, stabs, jump freighters - heck a pilgrim with some cargo expanders! I wouldn't call any of these particularly imaginative. If anything a blockade runner with the proposed changes are MORE likely to encourage risk taking by using these vessels rather than alternatives - not less. C. Originally by: Tarminic Your continued whining is somewhat diminished by your continued willingness to give your money to CCP.
Kweel Nakashyn Minmatar Aeden	Posted - 2008.10.29 17:59:00 - [173] AAA changes CCP !!!! Fetchez la vache !
Jehovah Cooper H A V O C Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.10.29 18:15:00 - [174] I love these changes. This definitely gives the blockade runner AND the black-ops a whole new role related to (low-volume) logistics capability. I do see the downside for low-sec gate campers, block-runners are now completely untouchable. Maybe the ship shouldn't be able to warp cloaked for a couple of minutes after engaging the cloak? The other transports I still don't really see the use of. Yes 2 pts is nice and this does begin to make a compelling case for using it over an itty 5 (even though its still smaller) but its still totally busted by a HIC. The tanking bonus is meaningless unless you are facing a total fail camp you will never be able to get back to the gate before you pop. I guess it does provide some protection against hi-sec ganking though there has already been a lot of ner***e on that front.
Anig Browl Caldari	Posted - 2008.10.29 18:16:00 - [175] Originally by: Ishina Fel ...the fact that the Procurer is matched, if not outclassed, by ships which require much less skillpoint investment, namely the Caldari and Minmatar mining cruisers. Is this by design? If so, the Procurer could really use some form of added perk that might make it useful, such as sharing the Skiff's +2 warp strength bonus. Good point. I just picked up a Procurer out of curiosity (I started training for the Orca and figured I might as well look at mining barges) and it's pretty weak. Maybe a touch extra cargo space or something? I think the mining barges in general are slightly unbalanced. You need Mining Barge 1, III and V coupled with Astrogeology III, IV and V respectively to fly the Procurer, Retriever, and Covetor. Which is fair enough by itself, but once you've got the Covetor you can train for the Hulk (Exhumers III) in less than a day - obviously the latter ship/skill cost more ISK, but you get 2x the cargo space, 3 more medium slots, a fat tank (2 x HP + 37.5% to all shield resists) and 10% better yields...it'll pay for itself within 24 hours or so. Seems like the Covetor has no reason to exist - you might as well just use your Retriever one more day and then buy a Hulk, assuming you're not in pursuit of Mercoxit or Ice. This seems harsh on 'junior' miners - it takes about a month to go from the Tier 2 to Tier 3 mining barge, but there's no real payoff - just mining Veld for a couple of hours per day will yield enough for the Exhumers skillbook and the Hulk. As for the transport ship changes, they sound pretty good...definitely more role-focused and better balanced, making the the transport ships skill more desirable by far. Not so much fun for gankers, but smart solo pilots had ways to protect themselves in an industrial already. One weak point: once you've trained transport ships I, there's no reason to train farther unless you want a little extra cargo, especially now that the active tanking bonus is gone. How about requiring Transport Ships III or IV to get into the Freighters, and giving those ships a couple of slots in return?
Carniflex Caldari StarHunt Fallout Project	Posted - 2008.10.29 18:19:00 - [176] Pretty good. The new bonuses for tech 2 industrials make a lot more sense than old active tanking ones that were never used anyway. With those changes it would even make sense to train the skill above level 1. However - I can understand the reasoning of giving 2 deep space transport shield and 2 armor hp bonuses - but perhaps it might make sense to give them all shield extender bonus or perhaps to them all both bonuses, as in most situations low slots in those ships are used for extenders.
Anig Browl Caldari	Posted - 2008.10.29 18:21:00 - [177] Originally by: Helison Let¦s see if the Orca fills the current hole between industrials and freighters, but I think that their is still place for another ship (can also be a boosted and transformed deep space transport). I'm optimistic, although I'd happily lose all the command (mining link) bonuses in exchange for the ability to carry a BS or fit a little more offense/defense.
SugarFr33 Warped Mining	Posted - 2008.10.29 18:24:00 - [178] Looks good to me
Kyoko Sakoda Caldari Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2008.10.29 18:33:00 - [179] Really good changes tbh!
Tabare Vazquez Uruguay Forever	Posted - 2008.10.29 18:43:00 - [180] The Crane has been given five more powergrid on sisi.
Alex Harumichi Gallente Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2008.10.29 18:47:00 - [181] Edited by: Alex Harumichi on 29/10/2008 18:53:21 Edited by: Alex Harumichi on 29/10/2008 18:51:49 Originally by: Jehovah Cooper I do see the downside for low-sec gate campers, block-runners are now completely untouchable. Maybe the ship shouldn't be able to warp cloaked for a couple of minutes after engaging the cloak? Look, this needs repeating: blockade runners already are untouchable in lowsec, if you know what you are doing. Properly fitted and flown, you will not get a lock on them before they warp away from your gate camp. They'll only die to lag or to massive bad luck or a mistake. Just like recons and other stealthers. I fly blockade runners a lot in lowsec, had a lot of gate camps try to kill me. Number of successes so far: zero. This new change does nothing in that regard. They win some (covops cloak), they lose some (you just need one point to hold them now). Either way, no normal lowsec gate camp will catch one unless they are very, very good or the BR pilot screws up. Both are possible, of course.
Lili Lu Purveyors of Uber Research Valuables and Ships	Posted - 2008.10.29 19:05:00 - [182] Originally by: Tabare Vazquez The Crane has been given five more powergrid on sisi. Do the other races get any buff to compensate for their weaknesses? Did it lose any shield tanking advantages it presently has? Wait don't tell me, probably not. Only Caldari gets buffed. Meanwhile, Pilgrim is crap. Arty still is crap. Hey while your at it CCP why not just buff all Caldari ships some more. Already often best in class, but not totally. Let's go for totally. Being the most prevalent race of ships is not enough. We should all fly Caldari.
Waxau Mortis Angelus The Church.	Posted - 2008.10.29 19:26:00 - [183] Originally by: Lili Lu Originally by: Tabare Vazquez The Crane has been given five more powergrid on sisi. Do the other races get any buff to compensate for their weaknesses? Did it lose any shield tanking advantages it presently has? Wait don't tell me, probably not. Only Caldari gets buffed. Meanwhile, Pilgrim is crap. Arty still is crap. Hey while your at it CCP why not just buff all Caldari ships some more. Already often best in class, but not totally. Let's go for totally. Being the most prevalent race of ships is not enough. We should all fly Caldari. How many low slots do your haulers have to tank with? compared to the cranes 3?
El'essar Viocragh Minmatar Meltd0wn iPOD Alliance	Posted - 2008.10.29 19:26:00 - [184] Originally by: Carniflex Pretty good. The new bonuses for tech 2 industrials make a lot more sense than old active tanking ones that were never used anyway. With those changes it would even make sense to train the skill above level 1. However - I can understand the reasoning of giving 2 deep space transport shield and 2 armor hp bonuses - but perhaps it might make sense to give them all shield extender bonus or perhaps to them all both bonuses, as in most situations low slots in those ships are used for extenders. I'm not convinced people would be very happy about a 3 med / 5 low Impel so that a shield bonus could be utilized. -- [17:47] <Mephysto> its dead, jim
YouGotRipped Ewigkeit	Posted - 2008.10.29 19:35:00 - [185] Please add the option to hitch a ride with a carrier when depositing ship in ship bay. Scams compilation
Lili Lu Purveyors of Uber Research Valuables and Ships	Posted - 2008.10.29 19:47:00 - [186] Originally by: Waxau Originally by: Lili Lu Originally by: Tabare Vazquez The Crane has been given five more powergrid on sisi. Do the other races get any buff to compensate for their weaknesses? Did it lose any shield tanking advantages it presently has? Wait don't tell me, probably not. Only Caldari gets buffed. Meanwhile, Pilgrim is crap. Arty still is crap. Hey while your at it CCP why not just buff all Caldari ships some more. Already often best in class, but not totally. Let's go for totally. Being the most prevalent race of ships is not enough. We should all fly Caldari. How many low slots do your haulers have to tank with? compared to the cranes 3? Tank?! Tell me you would fly a plated blockade runner Woo, look at me I can tankzors as I align like a brick in sand . . .
Waxau Mortis Angelus The Church.	Posted - 2008.10.29 20:06:00 - [187] Originally by: Lili Lu Originally by: Waxau Originally by: Lili Lu Originally by: Tabare Vazquez The Crane has been given five more powergrid on sisi. Do the other races get any buff to compensate for their weaknesses? Did it lose any shield tanking advantages it presently has? Wait don't tell me, probably not. Only Caldari gets buffed. Meanwhile, Pilgrim is crap. Arty still is crap. Hey while your at it CCP why not just buff all Caldari ships some more. Already often best in class, but not totally. Let's go for totally. Being the most prevalent race of ships is not enough. We should all fly Caldari. How many low slots do your haulers have to tank with? compared to the cranes 3? Tank?! Tell me you would fly a plated blockade runner Woo, look at me I can tankzors as I align like a brick in sand . . . Since when are HP tanks the only tanks in game?
Lili Lu Purveyors of Uber Research Valuables and Ships	Posted - 2008.10.29 20:14:00 - [188] Originally by: Waxau Since when are HP tanks the only tanks in game? You're right. I think a Blockade Runner should sit in the fight long enough to use a repper bonus. Gate campers will say, oh look a lone blockade runner, You ten guys don't shoot, we want to give this poor pilot more time and a chance to use the ship's active tanking bonus. Now I'm starting to think you are pulling my leg
SnoopDizzle	Posted - 2008.10.29 20:22:00 - [189] Excellant changes in the next release so far. MY main problem with changes are often that they are for solo players or help super large corps/. These changes really help the medium sized corps in terms of logistics the Orca and the changes to the transport ships are most welcome. With regards to the covert ops cloaking hauler.... its not that hard to catch in 0.0 space as a bubble and a good inty pilot will easily decloak a very slow hauler also in low sec it will still take time to align and with no tank you will pop it really fast. Its good for empire as solo players can at least warp items around without fear of having one of those ...... suicide ganking thier assets. I actually think at first pirates will suffer a little but will overall benefit from increased hauling traffic in low sec when they practice and get good at declaoking the ship in low sec with thier inties instead of relying on one HIC to scramble all. I dont say this often enough in the years ive been playing but excellant ideas CCP good job
Shadowsword COLSUP Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2008.10.29 20:46:00 - [190] Originally by: Bellum Eternus I find it amusing that all the seasoned PVPers are against this change, while all of the incompetent carebears (Caldari?) are all for it. Removing risk from Eve is always bad. This is no exception. It further mitigates risk and makes everything easier for the stupid and inept, and this directly hurts those that are smart and imaginative. But I'm sure you wouldn't know what that's like, now would you? I find it amusing that you're complaining these changes will make hauling in high-sec safe while it's already the case. Officer mods to carry? A single interceptor and you're good to go. No one will have time to scan you before you jump, so you're safe. Even scanned, good luck catching a non-afk interceptor. For bulk cargo a freighter do the same thing. ------------------------------------------

CCP Chronotis	Posted - 2008.10.29 20:58:00 - [191] a quick note to say we are reading the feedback. I did neglect to mention that we had increased the crane's powergrid following fittings tests with this changes which some of you were looking for. The split bonus between the active and HP tank of the deep space transports does create some question as to whether it can do either effectively but we believe it can do both reasonably well (even the shield based mastodon with its slot layout) to an extent that a single ship can absorb DoT or volley damage of differing scenarios. As mentioned, we are not ruling out further changes in the future which move them distinctly one way or the other with tank type preference. We will see how these changes pan out and tweak them again based on that. To the question of "what about the other industrial ships?" - the issue with those and something that is an issue in other classes is that it becomes extremely difficult to provide flavour to the industrial ships as only a few abilities or attributes are key to whether the ship is good or not. One area that could be ventured far into is the additional support of special cargoholds for example which will open up a lot of good opportunities on all ships in the future which may be used for those perhaps.

Waxau Mortis Angelus The Church.	Posted - 2008.10.29 21:16:00 - [192] Originally by: CCP Chronotis a quick note to say we are reading the feedback. I did neglect to mention that we had increased the crane's powergrid following fittings tests with this changes which some of you were looking for. The split bonus between the active and HP tank of the deep space transports does create some question as to whether it can do either effectively but we believe it can do both reasonably well (even the shield based mastodon with its slot layout) to an extent that a single ship can absorb DoT or volley damage of differing scenarios. As mentioned, we are not ruling out further changes in the future which move them distinctly one way or the other with tank type preference. We will see how these changes pan out and tweak them again based on that. To the question of "what about the other industrial ships?" - the issue with those and something that is an issue in other classes is that it becomes extremely difficult to provide flavour to the industrial ships as only a few abilities or attributes are key to whether the ship is good or not. One area that could be ventured far into is the additional support of special cargoholds for example which will open up a lot of good opportunities on all ships in the future which may be used for those perhaps. Any info on your decision with the cov ops cloak? As stated, i personally see no reason why a cov ops cloak should be used, instead of an improved cloak, with the same bonuses of lets say a Black ops or bomber. They'll still be invulnerable to an extent, and warp fast. I just cant see how on earth (and yes...black ops post here) a black ops cant fit a covert cloak, and a hauler can.
SnoopDizzle	Posted - 2008.10.29 21:28:00 - [193] Originally by: Waxau Originally by: CCP Chronotis a quick note to say we are reading the feedback. I did neglect to mention that we had increased the crane's powergrid following fittings tests with this changes which some of you were looking for. The split bonus between the active and HP tank of the deep space transports does create some question as to whether it can do either effectively but we believe it can do both reasonably well (even the shield based mastodon with its slot layout) to an extent that a single ship can absorb DoT or volley damage of differing scenarios. As mentioned, we are not ruling out further changes in the future which move them distinctly one way or the other with tank type preference. We will see how these changes pan out and tweak them again based on that. To the question of "what about the other industrial ships?" - the issue with those and something that is an issue in other classes is that it becomes extremely difficult to provide flavour to the industrial ships as only a few abilities or attributes are key to whether the ship is good or not. One area that could be ventured far into is the additional support of special cargoholds for example which will open up a lot of good opportunities on all ships in the future which may be used for those perhaps. Any info on your decision with the cov ops cloak? As stated, i personally see no reason why a cov ops cloak should be used, instead of an improved cloak, with the same bonuses of lets say a Black ops or bomber. They'll still be invulnerable to an extent, and warp fast. I just cant see how on earth (and yes...black ops post here) a black ops cant fit a covert cloak, and a hauler can. They will NOT be impossible to catch ................. a bubble and an inty will easily catch the slow moving ship in 0.0 even if its cloaked also in low sec it will still be slow to align meaning u have time to decloak it with an inty ..... you will just not be able to rely on one heavy interdictor to do all the work.
Hugh Ruka Exploratio et Industria Morispatia	Posted - 2008.10.29 21:32:00 - [194] I won't comment the changes on blockade runners and DSTs ... But I have a beef with the Procurer. It is outmined by Scythe, Osprey and Vexor with less training involved. All 3 ships tank and defend better too. There is one option however, give the Procurer a large cargo bay, so it does not need to empty for longer time. 3000m3 or so will be enough. It can also double as a small transport. 20m3 drobne bay and 20mbit bandwith will also help ... --- SIG --- CSM: your support is needed !
Waxau Mortis Angelus The Church.	Posted - 2008.10.29 21:44:00 - [195] Originally by: SnoopDizzle Originally by: Waxau Originally by: CCP Chronotis a quick note to say we are reading the feedback. I did neglect to mention that we had increased the crane's powergrid following fittings tests with this changes which some of you were looking for. The split bonus between the active and HP tank of the deep space transports does create some question as to whether it can do either effectively but we believe it can do both reasonably well (even the shield based mastodon with its slot layout) to an extent that a single ship can absorb DoT or volley damage of differing scenarios. As mentioned, we are not ruling out further changes in the future which move them distinctly one way or the other with tank type preference. We will see how these changes pan out and tweak them again based on that. To the question of "what about the other industrial ships?" - the issue with those and something that is an issue in other classes is that it becomes extremely difficult to provide flavour to the industrial ships as only a few abilities or attributes are key to whether the ship is good or not. One area that could be ventured far into is the additional support of special cargoholds for example which will open up a lot of good opportunities on all ships in the future which may be used for those perhaps. Any info on your decision with the cov ops cloak? As stated, i personally see no reason why a cov ops cloak should be used, instead of an improved cloak, with the same bonuses of lets say a Black ops or bomber. They'll still be invulnerable to an extent, and warp fast. I just cant see how on earth (and yes...black ops post here) a black ops cant fit a covert cloak, and a hauler can. They will NOT be impossible to catch ................. a bubble and an inty will easily catch the slow moving ship in 0.0 even if its cloaked also in low sec it will still be slow to align meaning u have time to decloak it with an inty ..... you will just not be able to rely on one heavy interdictor to do all the work. If you read the previous pages, im referring to Low sec. Im a pirate, and as such, my 'pvp' revolves around needing a lock. And sitting on a low sec gate in an interceptor, does not equal 'fun'. Its not a viable means of playing Eve, as pirates will tell you. The changes are absurd, to put it in its crudest form.
Charmin Point-Zero	Posted - 2008.10.29 21:50:00 - [196] Blockade runner high slots Is it just me, or is devoting your one and only high slot in a blockade runner to a cloak a sad moment? For pure blockade running, granted, the high slot has few other uses, but as a fast-ish cargo ship, the blockade runners also came into use for salvaging, probing, and other tertiary uses. Taking up the only high slot on my blockade runner with a cloak instead of the automatic +2 WCS means less flexibility in what I can do with this toy. :(
SnoopDizzle	Posted - 2008.10.29 21:56:00 - [197] Originally by: Waxau Originally by: SnoopDizzle Originally by: Waxau Originally by: CCP Chronotis a quick note to say we are reading the feedback. I did neglect to mention that we had increased the crane's powergrid following fittings tests with this changes which some of you were looking for. The split bonus between the active and HP tank of the deep space transports does create some question as to whether it can do either effectively but we believe it can do both reasonably well (even the shield based mastodon with its slot layout) to an extent that a single ship can absorb DoT or volley damage of differing scenarios. As mentioned, we are not ruling out further changes in the future which move them distinctly one way or the other with tank type preference. We will see how these changes pan out and tweak them again based on that. To the question of "what about the other industrial ships?" - the issue with those and something that is an issue in other classes is that it becomes extremely difficult to provide flavour to the industrial ships as only a few abilities or attributes are key to whether the ship is good or not. One area that could be ventured far into is the additional support of special cargoholds for example which will open up a lot of good opportunities on all ships in the future which may be used for those perhaps. Any info on your decision with the cov ops cloak? As stated, i personally see no reason why a cov ops cloak should be used, instead of an improved cloak, with the same bonuses of lets say a Black ops or bomber. They'll still be invulnerable to an extent, and warp fast. I just cant see how on earth (and yes...black ops post here) a black ops cant fit a covert cloak, and a hauler can. They will NOT be impossible to catch ................. a bubble and an inty will easily catch the slow moving ship in 0.0 even if its cloaked also in low sec it will still be slow to align meaning u have time to decloak it with an inty ..... you will just not be able to rely on one heavy interdictor to do all the work. If you read the previous pages, im referring to Low sec. Im a pirate, and as such, my 'pvp' revolves around needing a lock. And sitting on a low sec gate in an interceptor, does not equal 'fun'. Its not a viable means of playing Eve, as pirates will tell you. The changes are absurd, to put it in its crudest form. check the bold mate nuff said to a guy that referes to reading previous pages lol
Alz Shado Ever Flow Axiom Empire	Posted - 2008.10.29 21:59:00 - [198] Originally by: CCP Chronotis a quick note to say we are reading the feedback. I did neglect to mention that we had increased the crane's powergrid following fittings tests with this changes which some of you were looking for. The split bonus between the active and HP tank of the deep space transports does create some question as to whether it can do either effectively but we believe it can do both reasonably well (even the shield based mastodon with its slot layout) to an extent that a single ship can absorb DoT or volley damage of differing scenarios. As mentioned, we are not ruling out further changes in the future which move them distinctly one way or the other with tank type preference. We will see how these changes pan out and tweak them again based on that. To the question of "what about the other industrial ships?" - the issue with those and something that is an issue in other classes is that it becomes extremely difficult to provide flavour to the industrial ships as only a few abilities or attributes are key to whether the ship is good or not. One area that could be ventured far into is the additional support of special cargoholds for example which will open up a lot of good opportunities on all ships in the future which may be used for those perhaps. 98% of haulers that find themselves in a situation where they need to tank will die. The other 2% were probably caught undocking from one of "those" stations and just made it back to range before they popped. As for "Those other Industrial ships?" the only one that interests me is the mythological Minifreighter. The Orca is NOT it. 120km3 hold, all access restrictions similar to a freighter. 1/1/1 slot layout Maneuvers like an exhumer Warps at 1.5-2 au/s Transport ships IV, Freighters III required. 250m base cost. It's not that hard. It shouldn't take 5 years to put these numbers into the database, do a 75% reduction on a freighter model, and slap a texture on it. //// ---------=== []= ---------=== \\\\ Rifter(RedBad) "Kill a man one is a murderer; kill a million, a conqueror; kill them all, a God." -- Jean Rostand
SnoopDizzle	Posted - 2008.10.29 22:14:00 - [199] Originally by: Waxau If you read the previous pages, im referring to Low sec. Im a pirate, and as such, my 'pvp' revolves around needing a lock. And sitting on a low sec gate in an interceptor, does not equal 'fun'. Its not a viable means of playing Eve, as pirates will tell you. The changes are absurd, to put it in its crudest form. hehehe its meant to be a game that requires teamwork when u see the increased traffic in low sec and practice and declaok the slow aligning claok ship thats a HELL of a lot more fun than just lock shoot loot but i dunno maybe ppl find a really easy gank once in a blue moon more fun than a slightly more challenging targets regularly coming through the point is it wont be a solo job. The hunter and the hunted there should some challenge and skill to both.
Annaphera Minmatar Super Green Industries	Posted - 2008.10.29 22:15:00 - [200] Originally by: VicturusTeSaluto Originally by: Bellum Eternus Originally by: Battlecheese Edited by: Battlecheese on 29/10/2008 02:46:06 Originally by: Bellum Eternus Now when anyone (me) wants to move high value cargo (billions in officer mods) through empire, or anywhere else for that matter, I just hop in my Crane or Viator and go. Nothing can stop me, you can't see me, I fit a couple stabs for good measure, unless I lag out on a session change, I'm unstoppable. Erm, this behavior is simple to duplicate on tq currently, with the minor exception that wartargets have a chance to see you as you warp away from a gate. All they have done is reduce the substantial tackle-window which the agility debuffs introduced. Edit: Personally, I would have preferred to keep the agility, but oh well. We'll see how it shakes out. Yes, but that takes some effort and some minor skill on the part of the pilot to accomplish. All CCP has done is hand idiot carebears a get out of jail free card. This. They intend to make every carebear safe no matter how many mistakes they make or how little they know about the game. I don't see it being long before non-consensual combat is removed entirely. Sounds to me like another gankbear whine that the targets that can't fight back are going to get harder to pick off. Sorry, but making the T2 Indy's hard to catch is hardly the end of non-consensual PvP. Might mean that something besides jump-capable ships have a chance in low and null sec, though. This will not, I repeat NOT, make fools that much harder to swat out in null; the smart ones with real resources tend to use jump portals, anyway. You're just upset that it means the easiest ships to catch in non-consensual are those that might be ready to fight back. As far as my opinions of the changes... LOVE the T2 indy changes, both of them. The BR becomes a deep-space tramp micro-freighter, while the DST's become almost perfect high-risk mining haulers, a role I've seen very few mention but which they will now fit very well. The higher hp buffer to keep them alive and +2 warp strength will make a great defense against roaming pirates; almost enough to make me consider trying to mine in low sec! Which brings me to... Huzzah on the Procurer change! And double for the Skiff! I think you're headed in the perfect direction with both, turning them into ninja-miners to match the new DST's. The only thing I'd ask is for a +1 warp strength boost to the Procurer to give it a little better odds, but with the changes and it's already cheap price-tag I view it as somewhat disposable in any case. Mac - I'll have to see what that cpu boost changes in the fit, but the cargo space is good...always wondered why it could hold an odd number of ice... Rorqual - lol - I can't fly one, don't know anyone who does, so I really don't have an opinion. Keep it up, CCP!
Abrazzar	Posted - 2008.10.29 22:23:00 - [201] With the passive tank bonus on the DSTs the active tank bonus becomes quite obsolete. You basically never do both, active and passive tank on the same ship. Maybe use this bonus slot to diversify the DSTs between the races and give every one a different bonus fitting to the race. For example, Amarr get armor resist bonus, making them the toughest, Gallente get cargo amount bonus making them the biggest, Minmatar get a agility bonus making them the fastest and Caldari get a signature radius, making them the slickest Deep Space Transport. Sure balancing ships by usability and not by stats is more difficult than just comparing numbers, but making the choice of race more significant is something that would enrich EVE as a whole, IMHO. -------- Ideas for: Mining
Serenity Steele Dynamic Data Distribution Ministry of Information	Posted - 2008.10.29 22:31:00 - [202] Nice Issue. It was raised by the CSM - please flag it as such. Also a little punctuation would help enormously in interpretation. Quote: The Procurer and Skiff both received minor boosts to their agility as we wanted the smallest barges to be at least agile if completely outclassed by their larger cousins in most scenarios and nudge them towards more of a ninja mining role a little. Reads a clearer as Quote: The Procurer and Skiff both received minor boosts to their agility, as we wanted the smallest barges to be at least agile, even if completely outclassed by their larger cousins in most scenarios and nudging them towards more of a ninja mining role a little. ≡v≡ Strategic Maps in Eve-Online Store \| eve-maps.com
Carl Marcus Gallente Galactic Waste Management	Posted - 2008.10.29 22:34:00 - [203] Thank you CCP these are very nice changes for us industrialists..and just a side not it is not impossiblre to uncloak and / or kill a cov ops or even aRecon at a gate..i've had plenty of encounters (on another character)where i got caught in bubble and died so that will be even more possible for a blockade runner..only uncertainty for me is the jump drive thing..seriously putting a cov ops cloak on a indy but not on the black ops..hmmm..
Battlecheese Caldari Black Knight Buccaneers Strength in Numbers.	Posted - 2008.10.29 22:42:00 - [204] Originally by: Jacque Custeau 1. Blockade runner speed, agility and mass stay the same after the patch (i.e they dont get nerfed) 2. Blockade runners get the stealth bomber cloak velocity bonus, not the cov ops II cloak. Yup. I'd been hoping for this too. Oh well.
Relatyve Mynd	Posted - 2008.10.29 22:43:00 - [205] Looking at the way mastodons are slotted and such, giving them a pg bonus isn't going to change a thing. At the moment, a mastodon can only fit x2 LSE 2's. I'm assuming that the changes will allow them to use a 3rd. With 3 midslots, maxskills in EFT shows: x3LSE 2's-->42.3k EFT hp with kinetic and explosive rigs you get: 49.6k EFT hp However, fitting an Invuln 2 I get: x2 LSE 2's, x1 invul 2-->45.k and rigged we get: 51.7k EFT hp The outcome remains the same if you use defense field extenders: the invul field setups outperform the x3 LSE setups. So....this change basically just kills the active tank options (a mastodon could be setup for nearly 1000dps tanking atm, if you're feeling silly) without providing any worthwhile bonus. And like others said, encouraging the amarr and gall DST's to fit plates just makes incredibly slow ships even slower... I suggest either increasing their warp speed back to 4.5 like the t1 models, increasing their inherent hp buffers, or making them align quicker. A final amazing option would be to make them immune to HIC's. With everyone and their mother flying a phobos or onyx in lowsec, it's pretty suicidal to take these out of highsec as a solo courier. So all they are now is suicide-gank proof---but any mammoth can already be fitted towards that role already with some skills.
Dr Aryandi	Posted - 2008.10.29 22:56:00 - [206] Originally by: CCP Chronotis a quick note to say we are reading the feedback. I did neglect to mention that we had increased the crane's powergrid following fittings tests with this changes which some of you were looking for. The split bonus between the active and HP tank of the deep space transports does create some question as to whether it can do either effectively but we believe it can do both reasonably well (even the shield based mastodon with its slot layout) to an extent that a single ship can absorb DoT or volley damage of differing scenarios. As mentioned, we are not ruling out further changes in the future which move them distinctly one way or the other with tank type preference. We will see how these changes pan out and tweak them again based on that. To the question of "what about the other industrial ships?" - the issue with those and something that is an issue in other classes is that it becomes extremely difficult to provide flavour to the industrial ships as only a few abilities or attributes are key to whether the ship is good or not. One area that could be ventured far into is the additional support of special cargoholds for example which will open up a lot of good opportunities on all ships in the future which may be used for those perhaps. Any comment on the 10k space 'threshhold' It doesn't effect me as I fly a Viator but it causes problems for several people I know who fly Minmatar.
Battlecheese Caldari Black Knight Buccaneers Strength in Numbers.	Posted - 2008.10.29 22:59:00 - [207] Originally by: CCP Chronotis a quick note to say we are reading the feedback. I did neglect to mention that we had increased the crane's powergrid following fittings tests with this changes which some of you were looking for. :( So what exactly was the point of the 10MN digital booster rockets fitting so perfectly? This change is far more significant than any of the cloaking rubbish that you actually publicised.... Yet another step to us all flying identical ships with the same fittings.
Felysta Sandorn coracao ardente Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.10.29 23:03:00 - [208] Ah, so you're making Blockade Runners indestructable in lowsec and empire then? Yeah, that's a great idea, CCP... Considering the only thing fast enough to decloak a ship that can warped cloaked before it warps is an Interceptor, a ship that can be instapopped by sentries, this makes lowsec hauling completely 100% safe. Considering these ships are already agile enough to fit all istabs and insta-warp, this change just makes them ridiculously overpowered... Another great way to destroy lowsec piracy. .: A Vagabond's Requiem (Blog) :.
Kris'IN'Night	Posted - 2008.10.29 23:06:00 - [209] I've made some calculations and I'm still not pleased with Mack changes. My fit is optimised to maximum efficiency and looks like 2xT2 ice harvesters and 2xT2 ice harvester upgrades, that's all, sortage of CPU I compensate with imp. Cargohold have 5000m3 and is enought for 1 cycle witch gives 4 ice dices = 4000m3 Now, when we will have 6000m3 of cargo space my first thought was hmm... with 2xT1 cargo optimization rig it should be enought for 2 cycles hmmm.... NOT TRUE!!! 2 cargo optimization gives 7935m3 And there is no imp to compensate this damn 65m3 shortage, so I still have to dump cargo after every cycle like before or I lost 1 ice dice or buy T2 rig with is no option becouse T1 rig is expensive far enought. Isn't this damn annoying? Mayby if CCP will change T1 cargohold optimization rig bonus from 15% to 16%, then I will be real happy of this improvements, becouse now it really changes almost nothing to me.
Waxau Mortis Angelus The Church.	Posted - 2008.10.29 23:10:00 - [210] Originally by: SnoopDizzle They will NOT be impossible to catch ................. a bubble and an inty will easily catch the slow moving ship in 0.0 even if its cloaked also in low sec it will still be slow to align meaning u have time to decloak it with an inty ..... you will just not be able to rely on one heavy interdictor to do all the work. If you read the previous pages, im referring to Low sec. Im a pirate, and as such, my 'pvp' revolves around needing a lock. And sitting on a low sec gate in an interceptor, does not equal 'fun'. Its not a viable means of playing Eve, as pirates will tell you. The changes are absurd, to put it in its crudest form. check the bold mate nuff said to a guy that referes to reading previous pages lol Well if we're doing the Bolding game, ive had my turn now then. And can i just point out....Have you ever flown an inty on a low sec gate, as a pirate? With sentryguns barring down on you? All these 'tips' from nubs who say 'have a swarm of drones follow you'. Yeah...nice. And watch them as theyre popped by sentries, for the 'flukey' attempt to catch a viator...which...is already near impossible to catch.
Makko Gray Gallente Nexus Aerospace Corporation Leather Rose Syndicate	Posted - 2008.10.29 23:14:00 - [211] Seems to me that gate campers should be expected to adopt different tactics for different ships. What could make things interesting is maybe giving drones the ability to patrol between 2 points such as 2 ships or a ship and can. Maybe then you could have a hic and a couple of interceptors all with drones patrolling between them trying to bump the covert ops out of cloak. Either way - the more clever and sneaky you have to be the more fun it could be. It does make sense though that a blockade runner should be next to impossible for a solo player to catch, as that is it's purpose in life. It should take teamwork and tactics to catch a ship that specialises in not being caught.
Lynn Yi	Posted - 2008.10.29 23:29:00 - [212] Great idea in theory... except for one little thing... the whole cloaked while in warp business is a tad bit broken. Its a bit stupid that you have to come uncloaked in order to cloak again and warp away. I've discovered through experience, that you can very easily be caught because of this. When you switch, you show up for an instant on the tactical layout, and when you cloak again, you're last location is visible. And if they're heavy interdictor has a MWD, and it very likely will, it will be on top of you with its drones out before you get anywhere at all. So giving T2 transports the ability to warp while cloaked does no good if they have to uncloak to do it. Why gate campers are constantly being given more tools than those who are trying to escape them seems almost intentional, as if CCP is cheering for the badguys and making it as easy for them as possible to exploit your mission runners and industrialist. The heavy interdictor has made this game less than fun for everyone except gate campers since its debut. This lack of balance is in desperate need of review. -- Lynn Yi
Abrazzar	Posted - 2008.10.29 23:36:00 - [213] Originally by: Lynn Yi Great idea in theory... except for one little thing... the whole cloaked while in warp business is a tad bit broken. Its a bit stupid that you have to come uncloaked in order to cloak again and warp away. I've discovered through experience, that you can very easily be caught because of this. When you switch, you show up for an instant on the tactical layout, and when you cloak again, you're last location is visible. And if they're heavy interdictor has a MWD, and it very likely will, it will be on top of you with its drones out before you get anywhere at all. So giving T2 transports the ability to warp while cloaked does no good if they have to uncloak to do it. Why gate campers are constantly being given more tools than those who are trying to escape them seems almost intentional, as if CCP is cheering for the badguys and making it as easy for them as possible to exploit your mission runners and industrialist. The heavy interdictor has made this game less than fun for everyone except gate campers since its debut. This lack of balance is in desperate need of review. -- Lynn Yi If you don't know how to use a covops cloak properly to run through a gatecamp, you deserve to die. The one and only pvp skill a carebear needs to know is how to GTFO. It's not that difficult. Hint: It involves a MWD burst the moment before you cloak to have your last known position not being the position you are in. -------- Ideas for: Mining
Liang Nuren No Salvation	Posted - 2008.10.30 00:06:00 - [214] Nice changes! GJ to whoever thought these up - but I have to admit that it doesn't make up for the rest of the changes. ;-) -Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire Liang/Vanesca - Order/Iron Rock@WAR www.kwikdeath.org
Selexim Caldari	Posted - 2008.10.30 00:18:00 - [215] Originally by: Lili Lu Originally by: Tabare Vazquez The Crane has been given five more powergrid on sisi. Do the other races get any buff to compensate for their weaknesses? Did it lose any shield tanking advantages it presently has? Wait don't tell me, probably not. Only Caldari gets buffed. Meanwhile, Pilgrim is crap. Arty still is crap. Hey while your at it CCP why not just buff all Caldari ships some more. Already often best in class, but not totally. Let's go for totally. Being the most prevalent race of ships is not enough. We should all fly Caldari. Are you... comparing the crane to a pilgrim? Pilgrim = crap? then you sir, are flying it wrong. Caldari best in class? are you mad? The only class where Caldari win hands down is the Recons. the crane has been the ONLY blockade runner that has been sub par when compared to all the others. Every other BR has been better than the crane till now. Now, they are about even in my books. --- There is no cure for death
FT Diomedes Gallente Ductus Exemplo	Posted - 2008.10.30 00:22:00 - [216] Excellent changes. ------------ Improvize. Adapt. Overcome. Selling Gallente, Minmatar and SoE faction goodies (including Virtue implants). I am looking for a good 0.0 corp/alliance. Convo if interested.
Lynn Yi Minmatar Revered Mining Corp CryoGenesis Mining Syndicate	Posted - 2008.10.30 00:28:00 - [217] Originally by: Abrazzar If you don't know how to use a covops cloak properly to run through a gatecamp, you deserve to die. The one and only pvp skill a carebear needs to know is how to GTFO. It's not that difficult. Hint: It involves a MWD burst the moment before you cloak to have your last known position not being the position you are in. Well aware of how to use it, but a MWD will not always fit on one's setup (which others were complaining about as well on their t2 industrials). And that's not the point. You shouldn't have to cheat and use a MWD burst before re-applying the cloak. This applies not just to covert ops, but to any cloak. The cloak serves no purpose when they know exactly where you are. I'm not here to make judgments as to who should or should not die. I'm discussing game mechanics, not egos.
Esmenet	Posted - 2008.10.30 00:44:00 - [218] Edited by: Esmenet on 30/10/2008 00:45:31 Originally by: Signati Anyone who says a bubble wont catch them now tho... wrong. Ive seen Cov ops frigs get killed in large bubbles because they couldn't get out before getting found. a BR is gonna be easier to find thats for sure. Once in a blue moon yes. I've never lost my cov ops frig, and have gone through lots of gatecamps with up to 100ish people and even some with multiple large bubbles anchored. Not that invulnerable haulers will make that much difference in a place were we already got jumpcapable ships.
Jurgen Cartis Caldari Interstellar Corporation of Exploration	Posted - 2008.10.30 02:16:00 - [219] C-c-c-cloaking haulers? BRs using BO portals: good. DST love: good, though the ships are still going to be slower than molasses, which makes them rather poor at getting away. BRs with Covops Cloaks: not sure, but it means I'd better start making Proto Cloak BPCs. I hope this does not mean that BRs will lose their current agility though. Crane +5 PG: MWD at last for the thing. As for the Skiff, it's always been a niche boat. So goes Morphite, so goes the Skiff. The Procurer has one use: parts for Skiffs. I have known one person, ever, to use a Procurer for it's intended purpose of mining. This is probably because a Frigate V pilot can mine more in their racial mining frig with T2 lasers and an MLU I, barring Barge IV/V and full T2 kit on the Procurer. I wish I was kidding. However, this is mostly just because of the way the barges work: Bigger = Better, and if you have the skills to use a specialized one, you're probably already in an Exhumer. As for the Mack, I was hoping for a bit more than 10 CPU, at least boost it to 200 base (198 base just looks weird). It's fitting a whole second 66 CPU turret over the Skiff with identical fittings elsewhere, it's CPU should reflect this. However, thank you for at least giving us the choice between a moderate tank and good yield or great yield and no tank, without needing an implant. That's something at least. -------------------- Originally by: Crumplecorn I prefer launching bathtubs of antimatter at my opponents over pointing an open DVD player at them, even if the bathtubs do miss a lot. So no.
Kylar Renpurs Dusk Blade	Posted - 2008.10.30 03:18:00 - [220] All I gotta say about the Covert Ops vs the Pirate whine, it sounds very familiar to the "Shut up and deal with it" carebears got when the HIC came out. Good changes CCP. Improve Market Competition!
Relatyve Mynd	Posted - 2008.10.30 03:24:00 - [221] Originally by: concerning mastodons/bustards With 3 midslots, maxskills in EFT shows: x3LSE 2's-->42.3k EFT hp with kinetic and explosive rigs you get: 49.6k EFT hp However, fitting an Invuln 2 I get: x2 LSE 2's, x1 invul 2-->45.k and rigged we get: 51.7k EFT hp The outcome remains the same if you use defense field extenders: the invul field setups outperform the x3 LSE setups. You people might want to see this: the DST buffs do diddly squat.
Chomapuraku Caldari Phantasmal Collective Sylph Alliance	Posted - 2008.10.30 05:01:00 - [222] i already love flying the crane, and this is just icing on the cake. no fitting mods, so i can fit an mwd, cloak, ecm, and two nanos in the lows (with my two agility rigs ) AND a cov-ops cloak AND use blackops gates? hot damn, this sounds too good to be true. and if the only balancing is to remove the useless tanking bonus and the rarely-useful WCS bonus, i think we might be facing some balance issues here. insane align time, HAC resistance package, cruiser-sized buffer, cov-ops cloak, can be fit without compromise or fitting mods, decent cargo, black-ops portal capability.... a little excesive if you ask me. i'd say for the sake of balance, cut their resistance bonuses to marauder level, give them no additional HP over their t1 counterparts, and gimp their align time to t1 levels (maybe a little shorter). that way, someone that's quick to approach them with a swarm of drones has a chance of bumping and decloaking them before they warp off, when in low-sec.
Aki Achura	Posted - 2008.10.30 06:56:00 - [223] Overall I like the changes. Eve has always been a thinking person's game, and occasionally having to reconfigure our tactics keeps things from stagnating. I find it amazing that so many of my "hard core" brethren are screaming so loudly; as someone mentioned earlier "the sky is not falling." As we all know "carebears" do need some extra love, they are the backbone of Eve. If they lose interest then the pirates can only play with themselves (no pun intended) and the vaunted "pvp elite" will have no ships to fly. So let's keep the industrial-minded folk engaged in the game and if one or two more ships get past our gate camps so be it. Along that train of thought why not give the Skiff the same kind of love you just gave the BR's. True ninja mining with a cloaked skiff, extra high slot, no turret. Negligible impact due to only one strip miner, but allowing miners to experience a bit more of sense of adventure. Might put more players into low-sec and null-sec, and being the highly intelligent, hardcore, players that we are, we can then invent new ways to get at them. Win/win I think.
Amarr Holymight Ultrapolite Socialites GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.10.30 07:03:00 - [224] The DST bonus sounds wrong active shield tanking bonus mixed with a passive shield tanking bonus it should have another cargo bonus so it can fulfil it's role as the largest sub cap cargo ship, instead of the Itty V.
Mika Meroko Minmatar Crayon Posting Inc	Posted - 2008.10.30 08:33:00 - [225] Edited by: Mika Meroko on 30/10/2008 08:34:24 no worries, I believe the devs arent gonna be affected by arguments that insults other people (Carebear, caldari, blah blah...) as for BR using covet op cloaks...background story hmmm well, they dont have weapons XD.. maybe they re-route more power to be able to support the field? self-proclaimed <-(key)pvpers and their leet club... cant add anything that give them an handicap that they dont poo poo over. (yes, for the record, the carebears been nerfed to hell and back already... IE: being probed now vs the old probing) but yeah, glad they are buffing it. edit: for those who whine, you should REALLY look at the speed/agility nerf thats coming before saying. "OMG, they be invincible" Originally by:* CCP Atropos I pod people because there's money to be made in selling tears.
Zhula Guixgrixks Increasing Success by Lowering Expectations Vanguard.	Posted - 2008.10.30 11:06:00 - [226] Edited by: Zhula Guixgrixks on 30/10/2008 11:06:22 Originally by: Felysta Sandorn Considering the only thing fast enough to decloak a ship that can warped cloaked before it warps is an Interceptor, a ship that can be instapopped by sentries, this makes lowsec hauling completely 100% safe. Considering these ships are already agile enough to fit all istabs and insta-warp, this change just makes them ridiculously overpowered... Agreed. Question is , it is intended or only poor balancing ?? Cov-Op cloak is a good thing for 0.0 hauling where you can use bubbles and fast locking ships. In low-sec it means a 99.99999% security guarantee. How about downgrading CPU bonus of BRs for cov-op cloaks ? Scenario: if BR pilot really wants a cov-op cloak, he has to sacrifice 2-3 low slots for cpu upgrades. This means no additional expander and no agility mods when using a cov-op. For those complaining about whining pirates, guys it's a really though job today.
hybridundertaker Amarr coracao ardente Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.10.30 12:02:00 - [227] nice change for black ops but in general its just another carebear victory... EvE +NLINE - T+TALHELLDEATH SUPPORTER
Bado Sten Minmatar Dead poets society	Posted - 2008.10.30 12:57:00 - [228] Originally by: Kylar Renpurs All I gotta say about the Covert Ops vs the Pirate whine, it sounds very familiar to the "Shut up and deal with it" carebears got when the HIC came out. Good changes CCP. /thread winner!
Slinkus Gallentus Gallente Infinite Order	Posted - 2008.10.30 13:07:00 - [229] Ive havent read through the entire thread so if someone has already said this then I apologise. Would've been nice to see some drone bay capacity introduced on these. It's not like they don't have the space. Other than that these changes seem ok in light of other nerfs that have been introduced. cheers "Life is not one big joke. Life is 40,000 little jokes all lined up"
Slinkus Gallentus Gallente Infinite Order	Posted - 2008.10.30 13:24:00 - [230] Originally by: hybridundertaker nice change for black ops but in general its just another carebear victory... Ofc, pirates never move things about and never use blockade runners or DSTs. Right? Sounds like another standard whine to me..... cheers "Life is not one big joke. Life is 40,000 little jokes all lined up"
Aarin Wrath Caldari	Posted - 2008.10.30 13:41:00 - [231] Originally by: Hugh Ruka I won't comment the changes on blockade runners and DSTs ... But I have a beef with the Procurer. It is outmined by Scythe, Osprey and Vexor with less training involved. All 3 ships tank and defend better too. There is one option however, give the Procurer a large cargo bay, so it does not need to empty for longer time. 3000m3 or so will be enough. It can also double as a small transport. 20m3 drobne bay and 20mbit bandwith will also help ... Actually yeah that is a very good idea. If the Proc had a larger cargo bay, and +1 WCS, good agility, ... it would be an excellent ninja miner. (3k sounds pretty good to be honest) Although if you do that, you may have to bump up the cargo on the Covertor and Retriever as well.
Aarin Wrath Caldari	Posted - 2008.10.30 13:46:00 - [232] Originally by: Bado Sten Originally by: Kylar Renpurs All I gotta say about the Covert Ops vs the Pirate whine, it sounds very familiar to the "Shut up and deal with it" carebears got when the HIC came out. Good changes CCP. /thread winner! yeah quoted for truth. I lol'd :)
Ranger 1 Amarr Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2008.10.30 14:07:00 - [233] Edited by: Ranger 1 on 30/10/2008 14:08:41 Originally by: Lynn Yi Originally by: Abrazzar If you don't know how to use a covops cloak properly to run through a gatecamp, you deserve to die. The one and only pvp skill a carebear needs to know is how to GTFO. It's not that difficult. Hint: It involves a MWD burst the moment before you cloak to have your last known position not being the position you are in. Well aware of how to use it, but a MWD will not always fit on one's setup (which others were complaining about as well on their t2 industrials). And that's not the point. You shouldn't have to cheat and use a MWD burst before re-applying the cloak. This applies not just to covert ops, but to any cloak. The cloak serves no purpose when they know exactly where you are. I'm not here to make judgments as to who should or should not die. I'm discussing game mechanics, not egos. Apparently I missed the memo that stated using a MWD on a transport was cheating. Or is it only cheating to put a MWD on a cloaking vessel? If you are going to comment on the "proper" fitting for a covert ops class ship that will be used to get past gate camps, and the correct tactics for using them successfully, then you should make some small attempt at actually understanding them.
Rawr Cristina Caldari Naqam Exalted.	Posted - 2008.10.30 15:13:00 - [234] Wait, Blockade Runners arn't already hard enough to catch? - Infectious -
Lili Lu Purveyors of Uber Research Valuables and Ships	Posted - 2008.10.30 16:09:00 - [235] Originally by: Selexim Originally by: Lili Lu Do the other races get any buff to compensate for their weaknesses? Did it lose any shield tanking advantages it presently has? Wait don't tell me, probably not. Only Caldari gets buffed. Meanwhile, Pilgrim is crap. Arty still is crap. Hey while your at it CCP why not just buff all Caldari ships some more. Already often best in class, but not totally. Let's go for totally. Being the most prevalent race of ships is not enough. We should all fly Caldari. Are you... comparing the crane to a pilgrim? Pilgrim = crap? then you sir, are flying it wrong. Caldari best in class? are you mad? The only class where Caldari win hands down is the Recons. the crane has been the ONLY blockade runner that has been sub par when compared to all the others. Every other BR has been better than the crane till now. Now, they are about even in my books. Ok do you read? I was not comparing the crane to a pilgrim. I was moaning over the fact that anytime there is a Caldari ship that has a problem the devs get right on fixing it. The Pilgrim (btw show me your oodles of recent kills in it) is still tied with the Arazu for most useless recon. The Arazu is getting a little buff with the scrambler and mwd changes coming. Meanwhile the Pilgrim has had the nos nerf and the reduction in drone bandwidth hit it hard, and there is not any dev it seems considering giving it neut range instead of strength and a larger cargo hold for neuting. I have toons that can fly all the recons. Do you? The Falcon so outshines all the other recons if it weren't for the entirely different role for the Rapier CCP might as well delete the class from the game and just say Caldari gets a thing called an ew cruiser but noone else does. Oh btw a heavy web nerf is coming, and no talk of a buff to webbing on Minmatar recons, scratch the Rapier and Hugin. Caldari has the only ew BS. The Raven is the best PVE BS. And, the Rokh is the best ranged sniper BS. For BC you have the Drake. No other BC can tank a level 4 and still deal enough damage to complete one because it would have to sacrifice so much grid to tank it wouldn't be able to use heavy enough guns. For Cruisers the Blackbird is better than the other races ew tech 1 cruisers. Since the damp nerf there has been no buff on the damping ability of the Celestis class. However, when ecm was nerfed the devs came back very quickly with an over the top buff to the blackbird class ecm boats. The only other ew cruiser that is any good now is the Arbitrator. Ditto for EW frigs. Cerb will be king of HACs when the speed nerf hits. Sacrilege will have no range option because javelin HAMs will have a worthless range bonus. It will be restricted to being a Diesecondmost. The Eagle beats the Munnin and Zealot for range by a long way. Not sure about the Ishtar being set up for sentry drone sniping, haven't tried that yet. However, your compatriot Zulupark thinks the Ishtar needs a nerf (as if the speed nerf will not hit it hard enough and it has always had a grid problem). The Crow doesn't have to worry about tracking unlike many of the turret ceptors. There is a reason why it is the most prevalently seen ceptor. I could go on. So you had one hair-pulling ship to fit. Can't have that. I say again to CCP. Do you want to have everyone flying Caldari? Could you not leave Caldari teh suk for some class of ships? Every other race has to endure this. And please, please pull your heads out of your collective arse and realize that noone with a brain wants to "plate" an "armor-tanking" blockade runner. Blockade runners want agility and speed which leaves the only meaningful tank a shield hp buffer for being shot before hitting warp. The cov ops cloak is too much. Best suggestion i've seen in this thread is give BRs a cloaked speed boost like stealth bombers have w/ an improved cloak. Then shave the wcs buff to +1.
Charlie Luciano The Administration Cosa Nostra.	Posted - 2008.10.30 17:31:00 - [236] Changes seem ok, however I can't help fearing that the changes to the blockade runners is more a way of getting easily away from the current issues with Black Ops and the fuel needed for them. It's been said again and again that Black Ops needs a boost, and I sure as hell hope you're not gonna start saying bring a blockade runner for Black Ops-stuff. _____________________________ A Parola d'onuri vali sangu
NightAngel	Posted - 2008.10.30 17:31:00 - [237] i didnt read peoples posts.. 8 pages is to much crap i did read the changes that might be happening and because its carebear changes its obviously will happen.. anyways.. my comments is why can a hauler warp cloaked yet a stealth bomber cant.. the hauler is more stealth then a stealth bomber, dont know about anyone else but to me thats ****ed.. and anyone who disagrees is clearly just a carebear so go F* yourself anyways =) night
Anig Browl Caldari	Posted - 2008.10.30 17:38:00 - [238] Originally by: Alz Shado As for "Those other Industrial ships?" the only one that interests me is the mythological Minifreighter. The Orca is NOT it. ... Transport ships IV, Freighters III required. Well, you can fly an actual freighter for less than that - you need Advanced Spaceship Command I and Freighter I. I guess you could trade ASC for Transports (which seems a much more appropriate skill requirement for freighters anyway). Quote: It's not that hard. It shouldn't take 5 years to put these numbers into the database, do a 75% reduction on a freighter model, and slap a texture on it. True that. I think CCP worry more about how the introduction of a new ship rebalances the game economy etc., which isn't really predictable and which doesn't show up on SiSi very well because people don't play to win there, just to experiment and have fun. Having said that, I'm definitely considering the Orca as a hauling/support vessel and have only peripheral interest in mining with it. A version with a new texture, minus the mining bonuses and with slightly increased cargo/resists/whatever would be awesome, but I can still see a lot of potential for the ship as-is. I predict right now you'll see a surprising number of them in low and even nullsec. Hauling, pirate support, battlefield logistics...
Dav Varan	Posted - 2008.10.30 17:44:00 - [239] Originally by: Lili Lu Massive Ill-informed off topic ramble The point in increasing the grid on a crane is so it can fit a mwd which will become a pre-req for the kind of work the ship is being steered towards. You can't currently fit mwd to a crane without completelly gimping the rest of the setup a problem that no other blockade runner suffers from.
Anig Browl Caldari	Posted - 2008.10.30 17:49:00 - [240] Originally by: NightAngel my comments is why can a hauler warp cloaked yet a stealth bomber cant.. the hauler is more stealth then a stealth bomber, dont know about anyone else but to me thats ******ed.. Speaking as a hauler that often uses a proto cloak already, I completely agree. Of course I like the new toys being offered, but something is Very Wrong with the stealth bomber. OK, you can fly at full speed while cloaked etc., so if you're smart the only time you appear in people's overviews is from 150km as you decloak and warp after dropping your payload of doom, but still...and as always, bombs = too expensive to be useful.
Dav Varan	Posted - 2008.10.30 17:56:00 - [241] Edited by: Dav Varan on 30/10/2008 17:59:54 Originally by: Rawr Cristina Wait, Blockade Runners arn't already hard enough to catch? 5 ships will catch any current blockade runner at a gate camp. 1 any hic with top slot scram and sensor booster 2 anything with rsb on hic 3 anything with rsb on hic 4 anything with rsb on hic 5 huggin doin it with less ships is difficult hence we can say that blockade runners fill there function. when it comes to 0 that changes of course because of bubbles. These are some smart moves by ccp. Gives the blockade runners a fighting chance of survival in 0 while opening up uses for the dst's in low sec with there increased cargo holds and increased survivability. Remember that to make a ship balanced it needs to be able to run many camps before it gets caught. Campers only have to get it right once to destroy a ship. Pilot of runner has to get it right every time or else he dies. Its not like they can shoot back. of course theres allways the mwd cloak trick , but any ship can do that so its kind of irrelevant in a discussion of br's and dst's so I wont mention it
Kin Dolan	Posted - 2008.10.30 18:10:00 - [242] So far it's got the bonuses of flying a covert ops and a Black Ops ship lets finish it off by giving it a doomsday or maybe 90% resists you can't be to careful with a hauler. By god what are you guys thinking at CCP, you've made the thing almost unkillable this is the kinda crap that annoy's PVPers.
Lili Lu Purveyors of Uber Research Valuables and Ships	Posted - 2008.10.30 18:20:00 - [243] Edited by: Lili Lu on 30/10/2008 18:26:19 Originally by: Dav Varan Originally by: Lili Lu Massive Ill-informed off topic ramble The point in increasing the grid on a crane is so it can fit a mwd which will become a pre-req for the kind of work the ship is being steered towards. You can't currently fit mwd to a crane without completelly gimping the rest of the setup a problem that no other blockade runner suffers from. Yes, because youe say it is ill-informed it must be. Obviously any Caldari ship that has fitting problems must be buffed. The minority races with many more suck ships can ****-off and wait in vain. Short form, since you couldn't be bothered to respond to each point - With speed nerf range will be even more important. Massive Caldari buff therefore, even with all the crazy missile, gun and drone changes being implemented. Edit- And if you want on-topic. This cov ops blockade runner buff is op (and i'm not a pirate). The best solution to buff slightly the blockade runners would be to leave ship stats as are, reduce wcs bonus to +1, and give a cloaked speed bonus like the stealth bomber gets. Will necessitate that gates camps use ceptors with assigned drones to try to decloak, lock and scram before the BR decloaks on own and warps.
NightAngel	Posted - 2008.10.30 18:45:00 - [244] I agree with Lili Lu
Slinkus Gallentus Gallente Infinite Order	Posted - 2008.10.30 19:05:00 - [245] Originally by: Kin Dolan Edited by: Kin Dolan on 30/10/2008 18:32:32 Edited by: Kin Dolan on 30/10/2008 18:29:44 So far it's got the bonuses of flying a covert ops and a Black Ops cyno lets finish it off by giving it a doomsday or maybe 90% resists you can't be to careful with a hauler. Pirate whine #908274875385345 cheers "Life is not one big joke. Life is 40,000 little jokes all lined up"
Deva Blackfire D00M.	Posted - 2008.10.30 20:01:00 - [246] covops + blockade runner = stupid idea
Jei'son Bladesmith The Storm Knights The Cool Kids Club	Posted - 2008.10.30 20:14:00 - [247] Originally by: Deva Blackfire covops + blockade runner = stupid idea But stupid idea + blockade runner /=/ covops, therefore your argument has no merit
Eve Goetterdaemmerung	Posted - 2008.10.31 00:36:00 - [248] Nice changes I really would like to hear more about these specialized cargo ships As a Capital Producer I face the problem that all the freighters are much too small I need to fly 1.5 times to haul the materials to build one freighter (that consists 99% of empty cargo space!)... and that is one of the smaller Capital Ships (if it is even considered as such). So you can think how this scales if you try to build a Dread, Carrier, ... So what I would like to see is either a much bigger freighter (T2 worth some billion - fine!) or a freighter specialized for Minerals (or Raw/Processed/Advanced Materials). And for the "normal" Ship Producers there should also be the "Ship" Freighter, that is capable of carring lots of ships (not only a hand full) or maybe even one or two capitals Regards, Eve G.
Lynn Yi Minmatar Revered Mining Corp CryoGenesis Mining Syndicate	Posted - 2008.10.31 00:56:00 - [249] Originally by: Ranger 1 Edited by: Ranger 1 on 30/10/2008 14:08:41 Originally by: Lynn Yi Originally by: Abrazzar If you don't know how to use a covops cloak properly to run through a gatecamp, you deserve to die. The one and only pvp skill a carebear needs to know is how to GTFO. It's not that difficult. Hint: It involves a MWD burst the moment before you cloak to have your last known position not being the position you are in. Well aware of how to use it, but a MWD will not always fit on one's setup (which others were complaining about as well on their t2 industrials). And that's not the point. You shouldn't have to cheat and use a MWD burst before re-applying the cloak. This applies not just to covert ops, but to any cloak. The cloak serves no purpose when they know exactly where you are. I'm not here to make judgments as to who should or should not die. I'm discussing game mechanics, not egos. Apparently I missed the memo that stated using a MWD on a transport was cheating. Or is it only cheating to put a MWD on a cloaking vessel? If you are going to comment on the "proper" fitting for a covert ops class ship that will be used to get past gate camps, and the correct tactics for using them successfully, then you should make some small attempt at actually understanding them. I was not in anyway saying that fitting a MWD was cheating. I considered using the MWD while cloaked was taking advantage of the cloaking module that was not intended to be used that way. If they were intended to be used at the same time, the MWD would not shut down after the first cycle (along with any other module that you have running). Mostly what doing this accomplishes in the first place is simply to make you even more obvious to your previous location, as you have to take the time to activate another module before re-applying the cloak. If you have even the smallest amount of lag, you will be targeted by your instant target heavy interdictor before you have an opportunity to recloak. Its the weak link in the chain at the most crucial point, and it likes to fail. The last time this happened to me, I ended up sitting at my pod at the next gate (as it warped me once I was no longer in a ship) and left me sitting there with the message "Boarding Ship" and wouldn't let me do anything. 3 minutes later, the 3 ships guarding the gate followed me and casually destroyed my pod as well - nothing I could do (Still had the message up). I'd been hitting jump, trying to double click space, anything to change my location. Attempted to report the issue to CCP, but they found nothing unusual in their logs, so could do nothing. I was returning for a low security hidden radar site in a Hound (also considered covert op) and lost most of the loot that I'd spent the day looking for. I still have kill rights, and certainly wouldn't mind going back to say hello with some friends. Not that kill rights matter to those 3, as they all had -10 status. I am not in anyway complaining about playing a game that advocates PvP. I enjoy PvP. The Hound would not be my favorite vessel otherwise. This is simply about a broken game mechanic.
Balcura	Posted - 2008.10.31 01:06:00 - [250] I like the changes for the most part, but I would like to add a little to the barge part of the equation. Skiff +2 warp str is great Procurer - The goal of this little guy should be ninja mining and a little hauling with that main goal in mind how bout this for a ship change? Special ability: can fit strip miners and ice harvesters Role Bonus: +1 warp core strength Bonus#1: 20% Increased mining yeild per mining barge level (at level 3 and 4 the retreiver still out preforms the ship on yield while at level 5 they are even... kinda) Bonus#2: 25% increase to cargo capacity per mining barge level (at level 5, 1000 * 2.25 * 1.275 * 1.275 = 3657 m3 cargo capacity) Drone capacity: 15m3, bandwidth 15m3 This will allow the ship to actually be useful in yeild by making it caomaprable to the retreiver at level 5 (it will be 15% less due to the 3% per level missing bonus). It will also allow the use of 3 light drones, a little more in line with the retreiver's 5 and give the ship enough cargo capicity that it'll fill the role of ninja mining as it would take more then 1.5 cycles to fill it.
Marlona Sky Caldari Astroglide X	Posted - 2008.10.31 02:44:00 - [251] Some sweet changes. For all the pirates, just have a ceptor with a couple sensor boosters to lock the blockade runner when he uncloakes. If your locked, you cant cloak. So enough with the cry baby tears. Nice job CCP.
Arwenithia Gallente Azteca Transportation Unlimited Gunboat Diplomacy	Posted - 2008.10.31 04:43:00 - [252] I am one who says what your planning to do to the blockade runners is Stupid and will make the blockade runner a piece of junk, so what about the added cloaking don't use it now in 95% of the cases, Taking the +2 warp strength out just so the cry babies in eve can now stop a ship that was designed to do the very thing it does successfully. and if the gate campers had a brain they would figure out how to stop one it is possible. CCP stop catering to the crying babies in eve. Just because they can't figure out how to do something you change the rules for those of us who are the quiet majority. You destroy the agility and the +2 warp and you make the blockade runner a useless transport ship!
MellaRinn Gallente Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2008.10.31 05:50:00 - [253] absolutely sweet changes :D ✖Veto Corp. Officer✖ Click the sig 4 my vids
Tornikey	Posted - 2008.10.31 09:15:00 - [254] I like the changes as well.
Grant Smith Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2008.10.31 10:04:00 - [255] Having followed this thread from when it was created, reading some of the replies given do infact make me cry. It makes me beg the question as to whether any of the non-pirate BR pilots have ever actually tried to catch a BR even with a sensor boosted HIC. Yes, it's true that (in 99% of situations) a HIC is a BR's only nemesis... but even at that, it is very unlikely that a BR is actually caught. A few things: 1) Cov Ops cloaks I appreciate are a very useful tool, infact too useful, the fact that you can activate the cov op's cloak within 0.1s of "uncloaking" (the graphics still represents the ship as cloaked when you can activate the damn thing for god sake) after jumping through a gate, gives it the uber ability of no-one in the history of all sensor boosted and remote sensor boosted HIC's never mind any other ship getting a lock on it ever. 2) As for those telling pirates to use an Inty. You're mainly BR pilots your self I feel, if you're not, you know equally as well as the rest of us as to how quickly they enter warp. Now I'm afraid to point out to those of you who seem to think that using an inty is a viable option, that it is infact not. Let's imaagine it for 30 seconds, thats all we need because that's maximum uncloak time. Know BR jumps through, as it uncloaks, it instantaniously enters warp and recloaks at the same time. Said inty pilot now has to MWD ~13km (of which is long enough for the BR to have entered warp in the first place), but also will have had to have been zoomed out far enough to have noticed the direction in which the BR uncloaked on the gate. The inty pilot can't click approach because when a target cloaks approach doesn't work, so he'd have to zoom in, double click in the direction, hopethat there is some way in hell that he hasn't actually got to warp by this point, which is extremely unlikely knowing what the ship is like. Proceeded by the "sensor boosted HIC" getting a lock on the target, further hope being required that you don't get a delay of point activation inbetween having your target locked and it actually activating, all seems to reduce the chance of anything, including sensor boosted HICs!!!111 being able to catch a CovOpsBR. Not even the saying "Slowly slowly catch a monkey" applies here. If BR's get CovOps, they'll end up being used for anything but hauling, they'll out perform Covert frigs, just like the Falcon has rendered the Scorpion useless, people will fit tackle gear to BR's. Just trying to figure out how this is not going to make BR's 100% invulnerable (lesser the pilots own ****ed mistakes) makes me curious and hurts my mind. Cov Op's and Force recons are impossible to catch, unless they don't have a cloak fitted. Everyone will tell you that, and that is their exact purpose... they do my head in as it is... but a cloaking scouting tackling recon hauling invulnerable god like industrial ship... that's taking the . Feel free to respond to what I've said! I'd love to argue back. I feel very strongly about this ****ed decision.
Clansworth Burning Sky Labs Libertas Fidelitas	Posted - 2008.10.31 10:19:00 - [256] Originally by: Balcura I like the changes for the most part, but I would like to add a little to the barge part of the equation. Skiff +2 warp str is great Procurer - The goal of this little guy should be ninja mining and a little hauling with that main goal in mind how bout this for a ship change? Special ability: can fit strip miners and ice harvesters Role Bonus: +1 warp core strength Bonus#1: 20% Increased mining yeild per mining barge level (at level 3 and 4 the retreiver still out preforms the ship on yield while at level 5 they are even... kinda) Bonus#2: 25% increase to cargo capacity per mining barge level (at level 5, 1000 * 2.25 * 1.275 * 1.275 = 3657 m3 cargo capacity) Drone capacity: 15m3, bandwidth 15m3 This will allow the ship to actually be useful in yeild by making it caomaprable to the retreiver at level 5 (it will be 15% less due to the 3% per level missing bonus). It will also allow the use of 3 light drones, a little more in line with the retreiver's 5 and give the ship enough cargo capicity that it'll fill the role of ninja mining as it would take more then 1.5 cycles to fill it. I actually really like this idea, and I think it might actually make the ratio of procurers to skiffs produced go greater than 1. The 20% at 1 and 40% at two would make them approach the level of the cruisers, so they would actually be a decent option for the budding young miners out there. (yay for lower cost than a retreiver.) Of course, this coupled with the possible Cloaking ability would REALLY make this ship a useful ninja! POS Personal Storage
5amm The Archaeological Squirrel Society	Posted - 2008.10.31 11:20:00 - [257] Edited by: 5amm on 31/10/2008 11:21:33 Good show CCP..... let the crying begin Raiders of the Lost Nut
Eva YaMing	Posted - 2008.10.31 11:53:00 - [258] Comment to Blockade Runner changes: Well i guess the Cloaking upgrade itself wont change much, because you still have to show yourself once before cloaking at a gatecamp. And big ships are not very fast in Warp. Well but its nice too see that you guys are looking at those things.
Lynn Yi Minmatar Revered Mining Corp CryoGenesis Mining Syndicate	Posted - 2008.10.31 12:38:00 - [259] Originally by: Grant Smith Having followed this thread from when it was created, 1) Cov Ops cloaks I appreciate are a very useful tool, infact too useful, the fact that you can activate the cov op's cloak within 0.1s of "uncloaking" (the graphics still represents the ship as cloaked when you can activate the damn thing for god sake) after jumping through a gate, gives it the uber ability of no-one in the history of all sensor boosted and remote sensor boosted HIC's never mind any other ship getting a lock on it ever. You must be doing something wrong... In theory, you are correct, however... First, the human response time to any visual stimulus to a physical reaction is a minimum of 0.5 seconds. And that's with anticipation. Secondly, exactly when you are able to press that cloaking module and have it work after decloaking is not very obvious. There is no instant visual stimulus to react to. Coming uncloaked appears gradual to you, you can't see yourself in the overview. They can. You're likely to end up recloaking and decloaking yourself when the first attempt did not appear to work because it was complaining that you are still cloaked even though you've already clicked "Align to" the next gate. Great in theory, sucks bad in practice. I spent a lot of time playing with it in high security before attempting it in low security, but have no idea as to how much they are able to see exactly. But given my track record of getting blown up at gates after having trained up Covert Ops IV, and Electronics to V, and Cloaking to IV, I'm a little frustrated that they can still see exactly where I am, and destroy my ship within seconds. It didn't take 3 ships to do it. He could have got away with using just the Heavy Interdictor and all of its drones. So not being able to be caught ever can certainly be argued. You also seem to be missing the point of a Covert Ops vessel. You aren't supposed to be able to catch them, much less with ease. That's what they're for, slipping through undetected. That's why they're trying to do what they are with the so called "Blockade Runners".Saying they're too good at what they do is first incorrect given the above, and secondly, a bit prejudiced from a gate camper's point of view. The Heavy Interdictor completely took away their advantage, and now they're trying to give it back - albeit I believe without much success. There are some pretty ingenious ways to bring a ship out of cloak using only 1 vessel to do it. It takes a little time to set up, but someone serious to do it can make it impossible for any cloaked vessel to slip by just anchoring items around a gate at the appropriate distance to prevent them from being able to cloak.
Poreuomai Minmatar Mirkur Draug'Tyr Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2008.10.31 13:22:00 - [260] Posting in support of covert ops cloak on blockade runners. *Let My People Go*
zeho Amarr DIVINE DIVIDE	Posted - 2008.10.31 14:23:00 - [261] Stealth Blockade Runner - nice idea, but it's gonna be very easily countered by the rather annoying anti-stealth "tactic" of can/drone spam. Tank Transport - shield extenders will increase sig radius = higher potential damage/faster locks. Armour plated transports will suffer from increased mass, slower aligns, reduced speed etc. (plus loss of cargo as low slot used) It does'nt appear to be any form of buff or improvement - rather a change from one set of shortcommings to another. If you're going to change these ships - make it a change for the better. Blockade Runner - EVASION Stealth, Speed, WarpStab Transport - SURVIVABILITY Cargo Capacity, Shield Buffer Tank, increased cpu/grid to allow more options/variations Personally i'd like to see the Amarr DST gain +2 mid slots so it can fit a tolken shield buffer as using low slot tank on a DTS has many more drawbacks. +2Mid/-1Low but will need to tweak the base cargo to retain its max expanded cargo cap - don't wanna nerf it do we.

CCP Chronotis	Posted - 2008.10.31 16:59:00 - [262] an update on Deep Space Transport changes: Based on feedback and testing, we have changed the bonus to powerneed of extenders or armor plates to a 5% bonus to either shield (mastodon, bustard) or armor (impel or occator) hitpoints instead. This change will be hitting singularity over the next few days.

El'essar Viocragh Minmatar Meltd0wn iPOD Alliance	Posted - 2008.10.31 22:53:00 - [263] Originally by: CCP Chronotis an update on Deep Space Transport changes: Based on feedback and testing, we have changed the bonus to powerneed of extenders or armor plates to a 5% bonus to either shield (mastodon, bustard) or armor (impel or occator) hitpoints instead. This change will be hitting singularity over the next few days. :thumbs up: Absolutely nice. -- [17:47] <Mephysto> its dead, jim
Lili Lu Purveyors of Uber Research Valuables and Ships	Posted - 2008.10.31 22:58:00 - [264] Edited by: Lili Lu on 31/10/2008 22:59:20 Originally by: CCP Chronotis an update on Deep Space Transport changes: Based on feedback and testing, we have changed the bonus to powerneed of extenders or armor plates to a 5% bonus to either shield (mastodon, bustard) or armor (impel or occator) hitpoints instead. This change will be hitting singularity over the next few days. Much better. Now how about reconsidering the blockade runners. Leave the agility and speed as they presently are on tranquility, shave the wcs bonus to +1, and give them a stealth bomber speed bonus with an improved cloak instead of a cov ops cloak as a replacement to any tanking bonus. Do these things and people might actually train transport ships past 1. Edit- They will be worth risking past gate camps but hunters will still have a chance.
Arwenithia Gallente Azteca Transportation Unlimited Gunboat Diplomacy	Posted - 2008.10.31 23:59:00 - [265] After looking at the changes to the transport ships I have one question, why are you reversing the roles of the blockade runners and the deep space transports. Also for all the players that currently have a blockade runner you are now going to make them have to train more skills in a ship most will not keep using but change over to a Deep space transport since it will become a blockade runner with the added agility and +2 warp strength and more cargo. I really think CCP needs to rethink the proposed changes and see that all your doing is making the blockade runners into deep space refuellers and the deep space transports into blockade runners. Seems a total waste of energy.
Lili Lu Purveyors of Uber Research Valuables and Ships	Posted - 2008.11.01 00:04:00 - [266] hmm another good reason why stealth bomber speed while cloaked is better than cov ops cloak for blockade runners. however, if you haven't trained any cloaking you need to rethink your training priorities.
Darkdood	Posted - 2008.11.01 04:29:00 - [267] Edited by: Darkdood on 01/11/2008 04:32:12 I'm impressed. I like these changes. The blockade runners will probably need a bit of tweaking after the changes. Maybe +1 high slot??? Other that that I love the Blockade and mack changes. I'm not sure about the DST. The +2 warp stab is great but its not that hard to get 3 points on a ship that takes a really long time to warp. Just a crazy idea but why not give them the immunity to Ewar like a mom/titan? The jamming and weapon disruption stuff means nothing sense they can't use guns anyway. It gives the DST the feel it seems like it should have. Slow as hell, but unstoppable. It forces the pilot (if you tweek the PG and CPU right) to decide between bigger tank or AB/MWD for better speed. It also gives them a serious chance to get past a bubble. Without webbing or a hic its purely a race to see if the 2-300 m/s AB speed is fast enough to get out of the bubble before the tank breaks etc etc... With webs its just suicide. The moment you hit a bubble you get swarmed and poped 0 chance of escape. Even with a HIC and a massive camp you can still try to make a run back to the gate you just came from etc etc...
Quayzen Oldumrak	Posted - 2008.11.01 04:52:00 - [268] I like the idea of a % armor boost to the DST instead of a probematic bonus to extenders or plates. 5% per level isn't much, even at transports 5, its only 25%. How does this 25% boost compare to the previous idea of using extenders or plates? I haven't done the math, but doesn't this new idea amount to less protection? I think CCP needs to decide if the DST ships are intended to be able to bulldoze their way thru a gate camp, yes or no? They are so slow they can't run like a BR, so they have to just tank so strong that they can survive the attacks until going to warp. As it stands now, it seems to me that even with the 25% armor/shield boost, a DST has 0% chance of getting thru even a weak camp. The +2 warp strength is useless with HIC's around. Webs, or bumping can render the already slow DST mostly immobile. If they are intended to be a very hardy ship to use in high sec, and be resistant to suicide ganks, thats one thing. But using them in low sec, and charging thru a bubbled/HIC'd gate camp are very different. Regardless of what the ship description says, their role in high sec seems fine now, but in any low sec operation, its complete fail.
Marlenus Caldari Ironfleet Towing And Salvage	Posted - 2008.11.01 07:47:00 - [269] Ironfleet Towing and Salvage gives all thumbs up to these changes! Any salvager has got to love a hauler-sized ship that can warp around cloaked. The loss of warp strength and reduction in tanking is going to reduce the combat power of my beloved Cranes in their "battle badger" mode, but the cloak will so dramatically improve my ability to scout and choose those battles, that I cheerfully accept the tradeoff. And with the warp strength bonus on by Bustards, I can risk bringing them out to clean up juicy piles of jet cans in the asteroid belts. Awesome awesome woot woot. Love it! ------------------ Ironfleet.com
Arwenithia Gallente Azteca Transportation Unlimited Gunboat Diplomacy	Posted - 2008.11.01 12:16:00 - [270] After playing with both the DST and the BR on Sisi i have come to make this judgment removing the wcs completely from the BR is not a good idea since all the BR's do not have enough low slots to compensate the lose, kinda interesting warping while cloaked however having to cloak at every jump is a pain. With Polycarbon Engine Housing you can gain some of the lost agility back which I still say removing it all cripples the ship. Removing the 10% shield and armor kinetic and removing the 5% shield and armor thermal is also going to far with crippling the BR's. Your idea of making them more stealthy is nice but falls oh so short with what they have to give up. On the DST even with the added agility it still is a lumbering target even if you use ploycarbon engine housing rigs and fill all low slots with I stabs. We all know all you have to keep a ship from going into warp is to bump it and the DST still will be a victim every time. I think CCP is trying to cause more team work in game and force everyone to have to opperate in a fleet. Not that I am against the thought pattern but I think crippling the transports to accomplish this is the wrong idea. BR's were doing there designed role just fine, would have not ruined them. Should have given the DST the covert ops cloak in my opinion which would make that ship more useful and it has the amour to sustain it in a fleet battle should the fleet get caught. I applaud CCP for attempting to cause more players to work together but still think they are using the wrong ships and hope they can see this and use the DST instead of crippling the BR's.
IonKnight	Posted - 2008.11.01 15:17:00 - [271] Edited by: IonKnight on 01/11/2008 15:18:39 Well done CCP great job im a pvp pilot and even i have to say this is a good idea. Firstly transport ships having a covert ops cloak is going to make the prowler crazy but fun :D (along with making all blockade runners more viaable). The reason why i say this is better is really the warp stregth isnt really useful for these kinda ships as really it more that they are very agile that saves them (well unless a lone pirate comes unless in a hic). Also its so much better giving the bigger ship the warp stregth cause quite simply takes longer to warp. So from me u get a thumbs up there. Also even thought im not a miner i think these changes are better than the introduction of the orca. However was slightly disappointed that the hulk didnt get anymore love but hey. However making the mack better is a great idea as it was a really hard decision to buy one because it was only just better than the hulk. However i feel that the hulk should get a bonus for mining minerals. But apart from that thumbs up there hehe its probably the first dev blog i've read that i've actually have said yes i agree with everything there. Come on bring on the cloaking blockade runners.
Lance Bolvic Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2008.11.01 18:45:00 - [272] Deep Space Transport: Making it take more people to tackle is great, but I think it just reinforces the need for more pilots in a gang for killing, if the point is for these ships to endure the hostilities of space, it would need either an escort, or a way to defend itself, perhaps take a note from the orca command ship, and give special bonuses to the escorting party, or being defensive with teeth and giving it a way to fight back, perhaps small guns with a tracking bonus to kill off light tackles before the heavies get close. Deep Space Transport Idea: Potentially the ability to kill light tacklers, giving the deep space hauler a chance to warp off, or give benefits to the much needed escort.
Auk Monnan Minmatar Hidden Industrial Group Independent Faction	Posted - 2008.11.02 00:03:00 - [273] Good Job. Just one thought, how about a dedicated salvaging ship like was mentioned, oh, about a year ago. Auk Monnan, Chief of Industry
Rawr Cristina Caldari Naqam Exalted.	Posted - 2008.11.02 00:38:00 - [274] Edited by: Rawr Cristina on 02/11/2008 00:38:29 Originally by: Dav Varan 5 ships will catch any current blockade runner at a gate camp. 1 any hic with top slot scram and sensor booster 2 anything with rsb on hic 3 anything with rsb on hic 4 anything with rsb on hic 5 huggin Any decent BR pilot can get past camps even 5 times that size perfectly fine right now thanks to the wonderful MWD+Cloak. - Infectious -
Thevlyn	Posted - 2008.11.02 03:20:00 - [275] love the changes so far, and i have not read the whole post just yet. but seeing as you are changing the industrials, please look over the coventor. as it is it is less useful then it has potential for. with the prereq of astrology 5, once you can fly one, you need only wait 1 more day for a hulk. even at 1/4th the price of a hulk, its better to save the money and get a hulk. Astrology 4 for the covetor would make it more of a stepping stone to the hulk at this point. This would give it a lot more use without reducing the retriever any, since barge 5 takes 15-25 days.
Sharinni	Posted - 2008.11.02 06:22:00 - [276] Originally by: Thevlyn love the changes so far, and i have not read the whole post just yet. but seeing as you are changing the industrials, please look over the coventor. as it is it is less useful then it has potential for. with the prereq of astrology 5, once you can fly one, you need only wait 1 more day for a hulk. even at 1/4th the price of a hulk, its better to save the money and get a hulk. Astrology 4 for the covetor would make it more of a stepping stone to the hulk at this point. This would give it a lot more use without reducing the retriever any, since barge 5 takes 15-25 days. +1 for this
Queeck	Posted - 2008.11.02 07:24:00 - [277] This is actually a really good time to increase the size of the DST's cargo hold to about 30-35k unexpanded. This would give a total cargo size with expanders of about 100k or so. Meets the request of a mid sized hauler and is already a T2 hull. Relatively well rounded ship with the new bonuses being proposed yet still killable in low sec if you are not that careful in how it is flown. If you want carebears to start moving out into low sec space they have to have some way of getting their goods out there relatively safely.
Kasmir Mars Industrial Twilight Imperium	Posted - 2008.11.02 07:37:00 - [278] not sure if i like the changes, maybe i'm not understanding it? 1. blockade runner turns into a black ops hauler. (blockade avoider, not runner) 2. DST turns into the blockade runner without the speed or agility. ... ummmmmm what makes the BR so great is that it can gtfo before gate campers can get scramble it. the wcs is nice but without the speed your just giving more time for more points. Making it invulnerable to bubbles would be better. i guess the BR runner change will be great for black ops and other 0.0 stuff but its not a blockade runner anymore. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Moggy TheCat Minmatar Arte et Labore	Posted - 2008.11.02 09:11:00 - [279] Originally by: Sharinni Originally by: Thevlyn love the changes so far, and i have not read the whole post just yet. but seeing as you are changing the industrials, please look over the coventor. as it is it is less useful then it has potential for. with the prereq of astrology 5, once you can fly one, you need only wait 1 more day for a hulk. even at 1/4th the price of a hulk, its better to save the money and get a hulk. Astrology 4 for the covetor would make it more of a stepping stone to the hulk at this point. This would give it a lot more use without reducing the retriever any, since barge 5 takes 15-25 days. +1 for this to reduce the requirement for the covetor from astrogeologie 5 to 4 is a great idea also a +1 from me for that the other changes are not to bad, a bit balancing in the cargohold for the deepspace transports threw out the races would be great, if i compare the impel with the mastodon impel can hold up to 12 Giant secure and the Mastodon only 9 ( this is a big diff.) only bad thing of the changes to be afraid of is that the ore thief's get a new toy... and they will take it cos u cant see they coming, while mining
Space Wanderer	Posted - 2008.11.02 13:07:00 - [280] Mmmhhh... I fly a viator pretty often, in high, low and null sec, and I am not sure the covop change is a good one. Not because I don't like being harder to catch at camps, but because I am not really sure that the changes improve the survivability of the blockade runner, there is also the possibility that thay could be counterproductive. Let's have an in-depth analysis: In both cases: 1) Highsec: non-afk blockade runners have nothing to worry. Now: 2a) Low-sec: non-afk blockade runners with competent pilots have nothing to worry. With covop: 2b) Low-sec: non-afk blockade runners have nothing to worry. So I suppose that what the change really wants to address is blockade runners in nullsec. Flying one in highsec or lowsec is already easy. Now, the question is: is the covop cloak better than agility and +2 core to survive in 0.0? I am not sure. Let's consider the 4 nullsec situations in which a hauler is at risk: 1) Warping from a stargate. Here typically the hauler will find a bubble. The covop cloak might be of help since the ship moves much faster and the mwd + cloak trick is much more effective. However also the WCS and agility bonuses are good since they protect you when you are out of the bubble and get locked by an inty while entering warp. Note that the stealth bomber cloak would be almost equally effective. 2) Warping to a stargate. The only advantage given by a cloak in this case is that the hauler can find the camp at the stargate without being immediately blown up and has time enough to warp away. But a half competent hauler pilot will have already scouted the stargate with the directional scanner, thus making the need for covop in this phase useless. 3) Warping to a station. Exactly the same issues for warping to a stargate apply. In this case the covop is mainly useless, if the pilot can use the directional scanner. 4) Warping from a station. Can't cloak due to distance, so covop cloak is useless. Conversely the +2 bonus and the agility are both VERY useful because they allow to escape at least from the occasional roamer. With covop you won't be able to escape even them. Conclusion: the covop cloak on a hauler is mainly useless for a competent pilot, except in case 1. On the other hand the agility and +2 WCS bonuses are useful in more cases. My suggestion is to retain at least one f the original bonuses and give them the stealth bomebr cloak instead of the covop cloak, more in line with the original "speed/agility" attribute of the blockade runner, and almost equally useful. tl;dr: keep at least one of the agility and +2 core bonuses of blockade runners, and put on it the stealth bomber cloak, instead of the covop cloak.
Vladimir Ilych Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2008.11.02 14:40:00 - [281] Like it. I am not a transport pilot but some in my corp are. They will love these changes. In addition for the times when I do need to shift stuff around these changes make the ships concerned much more attractive.
Naran Darkmood Gallente MC Cubed 101010 Alliance	Posted - 2008.11.02 18:18:00 - [282] Originally by: CCP Chronotis To the question of "what about the other industrial ships?" - the issue with those and something that is an issue in other classes is that it becomes extremely difficult to provide flavour to the industrial ships as only a few abilities or attributes are key to whether the ship is good or not. One area that could be ventured far into is the additional support of special cargoholds for example which will open up a lot of good opportunities on all ships in the future which may be used for those perhaps. There is one thing, that quiete a few people have been waiting for since ages: A true, dedicated salvage/loot ship - besides the Marauders. An industrial hull, highslots for fitting trator beams and salvagers and a native cargo hold of 1000 m3. No Hardpoints for turrets or launchers. If you feel really generous, a tractor range bonus and a salvage cycle time bonus would make these ships loved by all salvagers. Last point is enough Powergrid and CPU to fit an MWD. It would give a t1 industrial a role besides maximum cargo space with a full extended cargohold fit. Originally by: DroneCommander MMORPG: Many Men Online Role Playing Girls.
Jurgen Cartis Caldari Interstellar Corporation of Exploration	Posted - 2008.11.03 01:24:00 - [283] Originally by: Balcura I like the changes for the most part, but I would like to add a little to the barge part of the equation. Skiff +2 warp str is great Procurer - The goal of this little guy should be ninja mining and a little hauling with that main goal in mind how bout this for a ship change? Special ability: can fit strip miners and ice harvesters Role Bonus: +1 warp core strength Bonus#1: 20% Increased mining yeild per mining barge level (at level 3 and 4 the retreiver still out preforms the ship on yield while at level 5 they are even... kinda) Bonus#2: 25% increase to cargo capacity per mining barge level (at level 5, 1000 * 2.25 * 1.275 * 1.275 = 3657 m3 cargo capacity) Drone capacity: 15m3, bandwidth 15m3 This will allow the ship to actually be useful in yeild by making it caomaprable to the retreiver at level 5 (it will be 15% less due to the 3% per level missing bonus). It will also allow the use of 3 light drones, a little more in line with the retreiver's 5 and give the ship enough cargo capicity that it'll fill the role of ninja mining as it would take more then 1.5 cycles to fill it. I like this idea. It might make my thoughts when I see a Procurer be something other than 'aww, how cute. . . a Procurer'. -------------------- Originally by: Crumplecorn I prefer launching bathtubs of antimatter at my opponents over pointing an open DVD player at them, even if the bathtubs do miss a lot. So no.
Poreuomai Minmatar Mirkur Draug'Tyr Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2008.11.03 09:27:00 - [284] Originally by: Naran Darkmood There is one thing, that quiete a few people have been waiting for since ages: A true, dedicated salvage/loot ship - besides the Marauders. Yes please. Yes please. Yes please. *Let My People Go*
Yunii Gallente Black Serpent Technologies Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2008.11.03 09:59:00 - [285] Excellent ideas on the changes. The Mack upgrade is long over due. \o/ ------------------------------------------- Originally by: CCP Arkanon I think this thread also illustrates perfectly that we neither censor nor do we try to silence our customers.
Kel Dario Amarr Blue Sky Inc	Posted - 2008.11.03 11:41:00 - [286] I think these changes are bad. The blockade runners in its current versions can already avoid most camps in low-sec since they are incredible difficult to catch. With a covert ops cloak the risk will be removed completely. Good for the carebears who cringe at the thought of a pirate even getting close to lock them before they get away but bad for the spirit of EVE when risk gets removed. Giving it enough cpu and grid to fit a improved cloak II like a stealth bomber with its known limitations is as far as I would go.
Evan Batarr	Posted - 2008.11.03 12:41:00 - [287] Why in hell did'nt you remove the shield boosting boni from the Prowler completely? Nobody in his right mind would EVER use a shield booster on a Prowler. A MWD is mandatory as well as a cloak - and if you fit these there's no room for a shield booster anyway (except for a small one). So we have a completely useless bonus again. Exchange it for some resistances or whatever - nothing special but nothing completely useless either.
Eluhaf	Posted - 2008.11.03 16:39:00 - [288] The net effect of these changes will be minimal. In high-sec and low-sec many people have pointed out that the changes will not result in any difference of surviability, the current BR mechanics makes them impossible to catch already. All cov-ops cloak does is make it so the speed nerf doesn't make BRs useless again. In null sec logisitics is all via jump drives, etc with the exception of the near empire NPC regions of 0.0 (like syndicate). Want to make Blockade runners a required part of 0.0 life? Then eliminate or modify what can be jumped in, significantly reduce the cargo capacity of carriers, make freighters unable to use jump portals, remove the jump freighter, or even make certain items unable to be jumped in cargo. When 0.0 was fun, logisitics were hard. But 0.0 pvpbears wanted to have 0.0 on easy mode so logisitics became easy and 0.0 stopped being fun. Difficult logisitcs breaks up mega alliances and leads to more small scale engagements, logistics on easy leads to stagnant 0.0 situation we have now. Which is more fun situation for a game, the feudal system of the medieval days with hundreds of warring factions, or the world sitatuion of 2-3 superpowers?
Jazzebella	Posted - 2008.11.03 18:55:00 - [289] Edited by: Jazzebella on 03/11/2008 18:58:17 I am happy with the changes overall. I do find all the people complaining about the covert ops cloak really funny. They pretty much all the time make their complaints null and void, pointing out that the BR is already pretty impossible to stop unless you do something stupid so the covert ops cloak really does not change that. And the fact that the cloak will come as the cost of agility actually hurts more then the cloak helps. The DSTs need to be looked at a little more with regards to how each race tanks (extenders/plates) and the type of slots available. Mining ships: There's no good reason to get a Procurer a Osprey or similar will do better and can be used for other roles. The Retriever is alright its a decent stepping stone if your going for a Hulk and cant use/afford a BS already. The Covetor is rather pointless you're just a few days away from using a Hulk that is much better and if its a matter if ISK then your just wasting that ISK that could have been put to use towards a Hulk. The Skiff I have not used personally so I cannot say how good/bad it is. The Mackinaw I would have rather had more CPU then cargo capacity, if I want to AFK Ice mine I'll use a Hulk. If I am going to use a Mackinaw I was the highest yield/hour. I would like to be able to use 2 Ice Harvester Upgrade IIs as it is now I don't see this as being possible with the current or proposed CPU of the ship. But maybe I am wrong. As it stands right now each cycle miner brings in 2k so the additional 1km3 just buys me 1/2 laser cycle with the two lasers staggered or a just few min before I have to move them to a container for pickup. The Hulk is pretty much good as is, though an extra slot here or there never hurts.
hybridNet	Posted - 2008.11.03 20:20:00 - [290] Thank You CCP - I think the Blockade Runner is going to life so much easier in 0.0. In stead of being almost impossible to get through gate camps with haulers, now even hauler pilots can have some fun whilst hauling in to hot zones. I don't think it is over powered at all as there is still a chance that interceptors and other fast ships can still decloak and lock down the Blockade Runner with a skilled pilot at the controls. The addition of +2 warp stabilizers to the other transport ship will help its ability to avoid trouble, its nice that you haven't removed this bonus completely from the transport ship range. But I feel this is an improvement for high/low sec systems only, +2 warp stabs mean nothing in bubbles...Its a matter of picking the right ship I guess!!
Relatyve Mynd	Posted - 2008.11.04 18:08:00 - [291] Thanks for fixing the DST change. You have now indeed made these ships much more uber <3 The tank on these babies is gonna get pretty unholy
Fergus Runkle Minmatar Truth and Reconciliation Council	Posted - 2008.11.04 18:43:00 - [292] Originally by: CCP Chronotis an update on Deep Space Transport changes: Based on feedback and testing, we have changed the bonus to powerneed of extenders or armor plates to a 5% bonus to either shield (mastodon, bustard) or armor (impel or occator) hitpoints instead. This change will be hitting singularity over the next few days. Is this still going to happen ? From what I see the DST's are unchanged and still have the bonus to power requirements.
Nyphur Pillowsoft	Posted - 2008.11.05 14:24:00 - [293] Edited by: Nyphur on 05/11/2008 14:25:06 Shame on me for only now getting around to reading this. These are fantastic changes, I'm particularly liking the covert ops cloak on blockade runners as they will help people haul stuff into lowsec and somewhat reduce the barrier to entry for stocking lowsec markets. It makes them suited to their actual role, to haul stuff into dangerous areas. The HP bonus on the transport ship is interesting but not very useful when the **** hits the fan. I can't help but feel it also needs some kind of agility bonus to let it mwd back to a gate if it jumps into a camp. It probably doesn't need it though, we'll see when it goes live. Very good changes, I like them. EVE-Tanking.com - Helping you keep your hull in-tact.
JanSVK	Posted - 2008.11.06 14:02:00 - [294] Thank you CCP. Finally I can start using my transports outside empire.
abaris'ium	Posted - 2008.11.09 02:23:00 - [295] Edited by: abaris''ium on 09/11/2008 02:25:05 While I'm partial to the changes mentioned, I would like to point out a couple of ships that were not looked into in this blog. If we are looking at improving the mining barges can you please look at the T1 mining barges more closely. While it does not effect myself i see people using procurers and retrievers. when you crunch the numbers they are irrelevant. I'll explain with maxed skills and optimized setups for yield using ,t2 mods and no drones. Procurer t1 strip miners - 384m3/min t2 strip miners - 416m3/min Retriever t1 strip miners - 705m3/min t2 strip miners - 764m3/min Compare this to the following : Bantum - t2 Miners - 375m3/min (no mining upgrades) Osprey - t2 miners - 668m3/min Rokh - t2 miners - 971m3/min (put in just for a laugh) Its easy to see that you are capable being on par to the mining barges with cheaper ships (expect rokh) not entirely built for the job. If your gunna modify the mining barges at all you really should focus on its role and weather its really worth having. The procurer may well be moved towards a "ninja miner" but the osprey is twice what the procurer can ever do and can ninja better. Then again why buy a retriever if you have the osprey. If anyone asks me what ship to get for mining i normally just say get and Osprey then train for the Covetor or Hulk. Barges are such a demanding skill path that the little wait to get there osprey and t2 mining equipment makes them more money while training to get there Covetor. I cant believe CCP missed this one. lets see a boost or a a strip mining rate increase so these mining barges are actually useful to the newbies.
Slym Pikins	Posted - 2008.11.15 12:11:00 - [296] Anyone tried fitting a Cov Ops clooaking device to a Viator yet; requires 10,000 CPU, did CCP think of that?
Knathraq Drugahnij Gallente Overlook Corp	Posted - 2008.11.15 12:49:00 - [297] Originally by: Slym Pikins Anyone tried fitting a Cov Ops clooaking device to a Viator yet; requires 10,000 CPU, did CCP think of that? I have the same question! The Viator only have a bonus of 10% per lvl to cpu of covert ops making it impossible to fit a covert ops cloaking device, believe it is a woupser
Slym Pikins	Posted - 2008.11.15 13:06:00 - [298] Originally by: Knathraq Drugahnij Originally by: Slym Pikins Anyone tried fitting a Cov Ops clooaking device to a Viator yet; requires 10,000 CPU, did CCP think of that? I have the same question! The Viator only have a bonus of 10% per lvl to cpu of covert ops making it impossible to fit a covert ops cloaking device, believe it is a woupser Have decided to Petition it so CCP get to know about it quicker; it's not working as advertised.
Morgenrei House of Stark FOUNDATI0N	Posted - 2008.11.16 03:50:00 - [299] There should be clarified something in the description. With transport II the cov ops takes 120 cpu in my prowler, guess that will be further reduced with higher skill level. But with which base for the 10%?

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