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wth did you do to my missiles?

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Antraxx Caldari Deviance Inc	Posted - 2008.11.13 08:03:00 - [481] Tried to resist joining the threadnaught phnomonen..but..meh :D tbh i think the changes QR brought to Eve have not exactly improved the game for the majority of players,not just caldari. Drone nerfs...Speed nerfs...Missile nerfs... sigh Eve was WAAAY more fun back in "Ye Good Olde Days"... Geddons stacking dmg mods...Dual MWD Ravens...Tempests actually made scary snipers etc :D Was it well balanced?-Probably not...But heck it was FUN! (And far less whinefests!) Balance is fine until you get to the point where ship roles become very indistinct.. (Cerb Heavy Assault Cruiser....Err-What happened to the Heavy? :D) While Gunboat pilots are happy to dit and say "Well at least your m issiles used to always hit",Sure...But for what dmg? At least gunboats,while missing lots...compensated for it a little with the ability to go over their "Normal" dps with wrecking shots etc.. (And before anyone says "Train skillz!-Adapt or die!"...I fly all but Amarr-with highly trained skills in majority of ship types...So am not Pro-Missile....or Pro-Gunnery...Both have their pro's and cons.) Missiles doing FULL damage after speed reduction was a problem?..I mean...God Forbid a weapon should hit for its full potential... Seems these days a lot of ships no longer quite match their in game descriptions,as their abilitys have been hampered so much its getting a little silly.. Would have been better to simply put a cap on maximum achievable speed if Nano's were such a problem,rather than the current chain of ner*e that has been applied. Ooh..One other thing that REALLY saddens me tbh-Is the depths the Eve community has sunk to regarding its avg player maturity.Its getting like Playground Politics in here..Many constructive posts are flamed with "Carebear tears!..Muahaha!" "Can i have your stuffz?" "Adapt noob!-haha!" etc. People fell in love with a very harsh Eve Online-Where combat was fast and brutal..CCP-Please give it back ^^. (WTS:-Rigged Ships:-Navy Megathron...Crow...Sleipnir..Raven.. WTB:-Abaddon. :D) ---------- ---------- Deviance Inc. is recruiting!-Eve mail me :) Originally by:** CCP Sharkbait we are screwed. delaying startup again.
Mu Yaling Caldari Navy Runners	Posted - 2008.11.13 08:05:00 - [482] Some of you guys makes me wonder if youre able to tie your own shoe laces. I have 9mill SP in missiles, 500k in drones. Its true killing a frigate with cruise missiles arent viable anymore. But even without a target painter, my drones kills frigates with no problems at all. Adding a tp makes it almost more effective than killing them with cruise missiles before the patch. My main is (or was before i sold him) a 50mill sp minmatarr. Doing missions now with my CNR are still way more effective than with his Vargur. I guess the problem is that Caldaris are not used to think about their setups or how to use the ships. For them its allways been F1-F6- activate shield booster. Now they have to F1-activate TP-Launch drones-Activate shield booster Thats two more steps for them. Anyway, missiles are fine. Stop crying.
Khamal Jolstien Caldari Product Number 3	Posted - 2008.11.13 11:12:00 - [483] Originally by: Aieran Originally by: Kedrich OMFG PRECISSION heavy missile 130 m/sec explosion velocity. What kind of frigate I can shoot with such crap? AFK one? From what I read heavy missiles are to be used now to take out cruisers, for frigates they say use standard missiles. Ah, but only if it actually worked that way. Heavies do pathetic damage against cruisers. Cruises do pathetic damage against battleships. God help you if they're moving.
Ultrakorne	Posted - 2008.11.13 11:20:00 - [484] rockets explosion velocity... 80 m/s wanna talk about that? i just started to play and i use rockets / light missile and are useless agains my targets (frigates)
Tsotha lanti	Posted - 2008.11.13 11:22:00 - [485] rockets weren't useless before?
Ultrakorne	Posted - 2008.11.13 11:30:00 - [486] Originally by: Tsotha lanti rockets weren't useless before? they had good damage on small targets because of high rof... but the problem is also light missile are useless agains frigates.. so what should do one with a small ship trying to do L1 quests?
Mallikan Gallente Plundering Penguins Anarchy.	Posted - 2008.11.13 11:31:00 - [487] Fail topic is still fail. Adapt? --- For great justice. Or something.
Gypsio III Dirty Filthy Perverts	Posted - 2008.11.13 11:34:00 - [488] Originally by: Khamal Jolstien Originally by: Aieran Originally by: Kedrich OMFG PRECISSION heavy missile 130 m/sec explosion velocity. What kind of frigate I can shoot with such crap? AFK one? From what I read heavy missiles are to be used now to take out cruisers, for frigates they say use standard missiles. Ah, but only if it actually worked that way. Heavies do pathetic damage against cruisers. Cruises do pathetic damage against battleships. God help you if they're moving. Stop spouting rubbish, Khamal...
Tanya Stritner	Posted - 2008.11.13 11:52:00 - [489] CAN I HAZ YoUr StUfF, NuBz?
KwaLevu Caldari SentBySatan	Posted - 2008.11.13 11:58:00 - [490] I havent used anything but missiles and after the new patch they still hit hard as before , the frigates and cruisers and BCs take an extra salvo or drones but all in all still love missiles for missions.

AccesiViale	Posted - 2008.11.13 12:13:00 - [491] Originally by: HankMurphy sounds like everyone is shocked SHOCKED at the changes? what did you expect? lol at people screaming at mission runners "LOLOL this is what you get for nerfing my nanos" i'm going to go out on a limb here and say it wasn't mission runners that did that. it was incompetent pvpers sounds like an increase to grind? omg i'm shocked you guys are really surprised by all this? here is how i see quantum rise coming to be. imagine a sculptor trying to create his masterpiece. but every time he looks at it it's a bit unsymmetrical. so he shaves a bit off the left, and then a bit more off the right, until the final product is NOTHING like what the museum was expecting. they didn't really nerf anything. a nerf is a calculated change to one aspect of the game. with quantum rise they completely changed the game foundations. subtle tweaks that have been made over several years were wiped and we started from zero. the real question is, is this best in the long run?? well, i'll leave that judgement to time and you fine people. i never did see what was wrong with the game to begin with, have been against every nerf they have thought up in the last 2 years.... i totally agree, the people upset w/ the missle changes are definetly not the people who cared about the nanos. Bottom line is that the devs wasted their time on the trivial w/ this patch and put off the stuff that would actually have given new life and a bit more fun into the game. Store fronts, product branding, sounds like a good start right? nope, we think we'll focus more on certs...thats where the real fun is at. You're drone window stays put when you dock....your welcome. They win because ill just keep giving them money hoping they do something productive with the next patch. Ive wasted to much time training to give up now and i look forward to spending the rest of my time waiting for eve, waiting for features, waiting for skills, waiting, always waiting...indefinetly
Zackalwe Gallente Thundercats RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.11.13 12:44:00 - [492] Originally by: Austex II Our corp did a test yesterday after the release and the results were hilarious. A Raven verses a Frigate between two players in a corp. With the frigate using an AB, and using the four different types of Heavy Cruise Missles, I had a damage range between 4.5 and 9.3. I unloaded 6 cruise missles at the same time, and I barely dented the frigate's shield. This was also without the use of hardeners. The only way for my BS to take out the frigate was to use drones. I can understand the difference in size and the need to help new players entering the game, but the numbers are unjustifiable. In lvl 3 and lvl 4 solo missions, with frigates, again it was next to impossible to destroy them without the use of drones. I suppose one could re-look at the ship configuration, but if you end up needing 2 small to medium size missle launchers out of say 6 high slots, the remaining 4 slots are going to have a hell of a time taking out a 1M bounty NPC. My two cents worth, change is fine, but this is completely over the top. After this, I am seriously considering my subscription. Is it me or are some of you guys completely missing the point of these changes. Battleships ARENT SUPPOSED to be able to kill fast light AB frigs in close range using just BS sized weapons. THATS THE POINT. No other battelship can why should a raven be so special? Did you use a webber, a point, a heavy neutraliser and light drones? No? Try your test again with the above and watch the frig die. Welcome to the the rest of Eve battleship combat. To solo light tacklers in PvP it requires a fitting beyond "standard raven tank and cruise missiles". Just like every other damn battleship.
Le Cardinal Black Plague.	Posted - 2008.11.13 12:56:00 - [493] Nice to be generalized as a carebear for being caldari race. Brainlag is strong in this thread. I dont give a rats ass about the pve perspective in this. I focus on pvp. Note: I never complained about nanos, on the contrary, it was fun. When i nanoed i rarely used Caldari hacs tho. Mostly minamatar. But back to the pvp perspective with missiles. Prepatch: You couldnt hit anything else then slow ass cruisers and battleships. Everything else pretty much outran missiles. Postpatch: You can hit most ships, but dont do much dmg (is the general assumption). So now you are forced to let go of parts of tank to give better dmg. This being said: I tried my cerb vs a zealot yesterday and did very good dmg. However. Nighthawk vs abso = fail. Abso was better prepatch and is better postpatch. The dmgoutput from a nighhawk simply sucks vs a tanked abso. (i have maxed oout missileskills). As for tank: The only sensible on a NH is passive tank. Works decently, but as soon as you hit armor ur toast. Comparing to an abso i have to chew through the shield (with pre and postpatch ****ty dmg output) and then face a very good tank. Prepatch i was screwed, postpatch im screwed. Nothing has changed As for the "caldari was uber before" lollers. It was uber for pve. Not pvp. Fleetbattles: Geddon = instahit. Raven: Go and eat dinner while waiting for missiles to hit. As for nanoships: Your only chance to hit anything with missiles was to web ur target. Im not whining tho. I was very surprised with the dmg output on my cerb. I used faction missiles. Presicion missiles suxors.
Taius Pax	Posted - 2008.11.13 14:55:00 - [494] Originally by: Crackzilla Originally by: Thuia Today i was unable to make a lvl 4 mission with my friend... 2 days ago i have no problem to do it alone... The game should be funny... if nothing changes it will be not funny for me... Yet, isn't it more entertaining when something is difficult? This isn't a nerf...this is a boost to fun! No it's just longer and boring... It's like pushing a car with a dead battery up a hill, is it more fun with a steeper hill?
Serinao Caldari TYR.	Posted - 2008.11.13 15:56:00 - [495] just did an test on blockade (level2) using an TargetPainter and 4 x heavy missile + 1 assault + 1 light launcher (1m sp in missile launcher skills) took me 5 minutes to kill off an frigate boy what a fun :/ carebear? well i killed some russians from solar fleet in their space on an char with less then 2 million sp with 5 people, in non nano ships guess that make me more an pvp'er then 80% off the people claiming to be one. I am convinced that people with sp will adapt, as for genuine new caldari players? they prolly quit when they reach level 2 missions.
Khamal Jolstien Caldari Product Number 3	Posted - 2008.11.13 20:02:00 - [496] Originally by: Taius Pax Originally by: Crackzilla Originally by: Thuia Today i was unable to make a lvl 4 mission with my friend... 2 days ago i have no problem to do it alone... The game should be funny... if nothing changes it will be not funny for me... Yet, isn't it more entertaining when something is difficult? This isn't a nerf...this is a boost to fun! No it's just longer and boring... It's like pushing a car with a dead battery up a hill, is it more fun with a steeper hill? This right here folks. Caldari are allowed to have fun too! Not just the mission runners suffering, all Caldari. It is not fun to have the same, already subpar weapons become even more useless.
Karentaki Gallente Fighting While Intoxicated Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2008.11.13 20:11:00 - [497] Originally by: Khamal Jolstien Originally by: Taius Pax Originally by: Crackzilla Originally by: Thuia Today i was unable to make a lvl 4 mission with my friend... 2 days ago i have no problem to do it alone... The game should be funny... if nothing changes it will be not funny for me... Yet, isn't it more entertaining when something is difficult? This isn't a nerf...this is a boost to fun! No it's just longer and boring... It's like pushing a car with a dead battery up a hill, is it more fun with a steeper hill? This right here folks. Caldari are allowed to have fun too! Not just the mission farmers suffering, all Calamari. It is not fun to have the same, currently overpowered weapons become slightly more balanced. Fixed Quote: EVE is like a sandbox with landmines. Deal with it.
Becq Starforged Minmatar Ship Construction Services Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2008.11.13 21:52:00 - [498] "Yeah, but battleships are supposed to suck against frigates lolol" Fine, but what about cruiser and frigate weaponry? Look, any chance we can agree that a stealth bomber (a frigate) ought to perform reasonably well against frigates and cruisers? Last night I ran some tests against a corp mate and found that against a frigate (with a signature larger than the explosion radius of the missile) moving at standard maximum speed (no nanos, ODs, AB or MWD) the bomber was reduced to about a third of the damage it inflicted against the same target stationary. And with an AB running, the damage was reduced to about a seventh. The bomber even lost a significant amount of damage against a T1 cruiser with an AB but no other speed mods. Likewise, heavy missile should be expected to have reasonable effectiveness against cruiser targets, right? Wrong! Even when using precision heavy or HAM missiles against a T1 cruiser with an AB and no other speed mods/rigs, damage was reduced to near uselessness. And for missiles, of course, the target doesn't even need to keep the lateral speed up; charging straight in provides full damage reduction. This really makes no sense. I enjoyed the effectiveness of the Raven in missions, and it's sad to lose that, but I understand the reasoning behind balancing missiles to reduce effectiveness against undersized targets. But now missiles appear useless against even the targets they are intended to work against. -- Becq Starforged Ushra'Khan The Flame of Freedom Burns On!
AkRoYeR Amarr	Posted - 2008.11.13 22:13:00 - [499] Originally by: Becq Starforged "Yeah, but battleships are supposed to suck against frigates lolol" Fine, but what about cruiser and frigate weaponry? Look, any chance we can agree that a stealth bomber (a frigate) ought to perform reasonably well against frigates and cruisers? Last night I ran some tests against a corp mate and found that against a frigate (with a signature larger than the explosion radius of the missile) moving at standard maximum speed (no nanos, ODs, AB or MWD) the bomber was reduced to about a third of the damage it inflicted against the same target stationary. And with an AB running, the damage was reduced to about a seventh. The bomber even lost a significant amount of damage against a T1 cruiser with an AB but no other speed mods. Likewise, heavy missile should be expected to have reasonable effectiveness against cruiser targets, right? Wrong! Even when using precision heavy or HAM missiles against a T1 cruiser with an AB and no other speed mods/rigs, damage was reduced to near uselessness. And for missiles, of course, the target doesn't even need to keep the lateral speed up; charging straight in provides full damage reduction. This really makes no sense. I enjoyed the effectiveness of the Raven in missions, and it's sad to lose that, but I understand the reasoning behind balancing missiles to reduce effectiveness against undersized targets. But now missiles appear useless against even the targets they are intended to work against. I don't get the problem with Ravens. Post patch my Gravy Naven does excellent in level 4s. Yeah okay, so I have to actually micromanage my drones now and sick them on the frigs...big deal.
Fekkerov U	Posted - 2008.11.13 22:49:00 - [500] Look at all the broken stuff on this patch and the long needed I win Caldari Ratting Raven is nerfed to be in line with the other races and look at all the posts!

FluterEx Caldari 22nd Black Rise Defensive Unit	Posted - 2008.11.13 22:58:00 - [501] Personally i totally understand why ppl are crying. Nobody likes it if his/her ships performance has been beaton down into the basement. I dont like the missile nerf, i didnt like the speed nerf, i dont like nerfing stuff at all no matter what it is. I think nerfing everything like CCP has done now is just a really bad way to balance a game. I think instead of nerfing everything the could have improved the performances of the ships and modules that were not performing very well. If they would start improving the weak ships and modules instead of nerfing the strong ones they could bring everything in line without making the ppl angry because they wasted SP again for things that have been made useless becaus of all the nerfs. --------------------------------------- CCP Teara, we will all miss you.
Opertone Caldari SIEGE. United Legion	Posted - 2008.11.13 23:00:00 - [502] Originally by: Mu Yaling Some of you guys makes me wonder if youre able to tie your own shoe laces. I have 9mill SP in missiles, 500k in drones. Its true killing a frigate with cruise missiles arent viable anymore. But even without a target painter, my drones kills frigates with no problems at all. Adding a tp makes it almost more effective than killing them with cruise missiles before the patch. My main is (or was before i sold him) a 50mill sp minmatarr. Doing missions now with my CNR are still way more effective than with his Vargur. I guess the problem is that Caldaris are not used to think about their setups or how to use the ships. For them its allways been F1-F6- activate shield booster. Now they have to F1-activate TP-Launch drones-Activate shield booster Thats two more steps for them. Anyway, missiles are fine. Stop crying. please, make a separate thread that supports missile nerf, here we gather to show the bad sides of the new system, we do not want argue that you may like it in fact.
Nikolae Varius Amarr Exiled. Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2008.11.13 23:00:00 - [503] Oh god pants I love the tears licks tears of carebears Oh its so delicious ==================================== Looking for a 0.0 PvP corp? Check me out.
Opertone Caldari SIEGE. United Legion	Posted - 2008.11.13 23:01:00 - [504] Originally by: Mallikan Fail topic is still fail. Adapt? fail poster is a joke gone wrong, we want CCP to adapt to us, we are the most numerous race
Opertone Caldari SIEGE. United Legion	Posted - 2008.11.13 23:02:00 - [505] Originally by: Nikolae Varius Oh god pants I love the tears licks tears of carebears Oh its so delicious perverts this way >>> *move along
Opertone Caldari SIEGE. United Legion	Posted - 2008.11.13 23:05:00 - [506] Edited by: Opertone on 13/11/2008 23:05:47 Originally by: Becq Starforged "Yeah, but battleships are supposed to suck against frigates lolol" This really makes no sense. I enjoyed the effectiveness of the Raven in missions, and it's sad to lose that, but I understand the reasoning behind balancing missiles to reduce effectiveness against undersized targets. But now missiles appear useless against even the targets they are intended to work against. QFT
Dr NAthan	Posted - 2008.11.13 23:05:00 - [507] Originally by: Tiirae Originally by: Bohoba hehe charicter Bohoba can be recycled in 10 hours 55 min another 70mill sp char bites the dust... training an ammar noob now Ha Ha, thats possibly the dumbest thing I've ever read. I am hoping like hell you really did this. Oh no! I've sprained my ankle... better take the whole leg off doc! Haha, I know, anyone with 70 mil SP in this game must know it would be better to use the current character even if they had 18 IQ....
Dirk Mortice	Posted - 2008.11.13 23:08:00 - [508] Originally by: Opertone we want CCP to adapt to us, we are the most numerous race and this is why I hope CCP leaves you to rot enjoy the nano nerf! muhahahaha
Opertone Caldari SIEGE. United Legion	Posted - 2008.11.13 23:08:00 - [509] can't you understand his frustration? don't laugh at him, his showing us the right way of protest! on his ashes will burn the flame of revolution! The revolt against the old system and a new system to come...
Opertone Caldari SIEGE. United Legion	Posted - 2008.11.13 23:10:00 - [510] Originally by: Dirk Mortice Originally by: Opertone we want CCP to adapt to us, we are the most numerous race and this is why I hope CCP leaves you to rot enjoy the nano nerf! muhahahaha we can make the things better together, why do you want me to rot? Rise up! Overthrow the nano nerf!



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