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Taius Pax
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Posted - 2008.11.12 00:24:00 -
[1]
I picked up Blockade lvl 4, and I've been shooting non stop for 30 minutes and I'm barely through the first spawn. 7X CN Launchers with 3X CN BCU. What kind of bull**** is this?
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Allora Lyn
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Posted - 2008.11.12 00:27:00 -
[2]
Amarr, train'em
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Dirk Magnum
Royal Hiigaran Navy
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Posted - 2008.11.12 00:27:00 -
[3]
Use 5X CN Light Drones or something I dunno
This could be the mission running nerf a lot of us (including many who need missions for income) have been hoping for. Personally I only really care about how well missiles do in PvP.
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Nadarius Chrome
Celestial Industrial Alliance
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Posted - 2008.11.12 00:27:00 -
[4]
you're running a mission? On patch day? Are you insane?!? 
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Scardin
Minmatar
Malum Crusis
IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2008.11.12 00:30:00 -
[5]
 Originally by: Taius Pax
I picked up Blockade lvl 4, and I've been shooting non stop for 30 minutes and I'm barely through the first spawn. 7X CN Launchers with 3X CN BCU. What kind of bull**** is this?
Aw boo hoo, now u have to actually do something different
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Taius Pax
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Posted - 2008.11.12 00:34:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Taius Pax on 12/11/2008 00:34:45
Originally by: Nadarius Chrome
you're running a mission? On patch day? Are you insane?!?
Apparently...
Even against BSes cruise missiles appear less effective. I really hope this is a bug. If this is working as intended and the future direction of Eve is several hour long missions, I think EVE's subscriber base is going to shrink...
@Dirk: Even if PvP is all you do, you have to realize even those shiny things you get off those player controlled ships you blew up also came from... missions.
But I won't derail my own post with PvP vs Carebear. Back on topic: What's up with missiles?
edit: spelling.
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Oktacon
Caldari
Exiled.
Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2008.11.12 00:36:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Taius Pax
Originally by: Nadarius Chrome
you're running a mission? On patch day? Are you insane?!?
Apparently...
Even against BS they're cruise missiles appear less effective. I really hope this is a bug. If this is working as intended and the future direction of Eve is several hour long missions, I think they're subscriber base is going to shrink...
@Dirk: Even if PvP is all you do, you have to realize even those shiny things you get off those player controlled ships you blew up also came from... missions.
But I won't derail my own post with PvP vs Carebare. Back on topic: What's up with missiles?
Have you not been following the multitude of threads explaining the missiles changes on this board, or been on the test server at all? Or even the Game Development Forum where there are always discussions on game changes?
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Cpt Branko
Surge.
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Posted - 2008.11.12 00:37:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Taius Pax
I picked up Blockade lvl 4, and I've been shooting non stop for 30 minutes and I'm barely through the first spawn. 7X CN Launchers with 3X CN BCU. What kind of bull**** is this?
Enjoy your nano nerf, Caldari pigs.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Taius Pax
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Posted - 2008.11.12 00:38:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Oktacon
Have you not been following the multitude of threads explaining the missiles changes on this board, or been on the test server at all? Or even the Game Development Forum where there are always discussions on game changes?
I remember the part about making them somewhat effective against tiny fast ships (i.e. speed tanking would never reduce the damage to zero). I don't remember the part about making them significantly less effective against slow moving NPC battleships and slow NPC moving cruisers...
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Deva Blackfire
D00M.
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Posted - 2008.11.12 00:43:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Taius Pax
Originally by: Oktacon
Have you not been following the multitude of threads explaining the missiles changes on this board, or been on the test server at all? Or even the Game Development Forum where there are always discussions on game changes?
I remember the part about making them somewhat effective against tiny fast ships (i.e. speed tanking would never reduce the damage to zero). I don't remember the part about making them significantly less effective against slow moving NPC battleships and slow NPC moving cruisers...
Yes - battleships speedtank you now. You deal damage to small ships (crap damage but "better than 0.0") but on other hand you lose damage vs BS. Welcome to nano nerf age.
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Drunken Fury
Minmatar
It's A Trap
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Posted - 2008.11.12 00:43:00 -
[11]
First, READ PATCH NOTES.
Second. Train webbers.
Third. Train target painters.
Fourth. Switch to light drones.
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Deva Blackfire
D00M.
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Posted - 2008.11.12 00:48:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Drunken Fury
First, READ PATCH NOTES.
Second. Train webbers.
Third. Train target painters.
Fourth. Switch to light drones.
Fifth. Bring a friend
Sixth. Or even two
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Farrellus Cameron
Sturmgrenadier Inc
Cosmic Anomalies
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Posted - 2008.11.12 00:52:00 -
[13]
Yup, Raven no longer the mission pwnmobile of the ages.
Your damage against the BS is reduced because they are powering toward you. Part of the speed nerf was allowing afterburners to be a viable speed tank against missiles.
----------------------------------------------------
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Blastil
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Posted - 2008.11.12 00:53:00 -
[14]
they fixed them.
/thread
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Val Erian
Gallente
Azure Horizon Federate Militia
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Posted - 2008.11.12 00:54:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Cpt Branko
Originally by: Taius Pax
I picked up Blockade lvl 4, and I've been shooting non stop for 30 minutes and I'm barely through the first spawn. 7X CN Launchers with 3X CN BCU. What kind of bull**** is this?
Enjoy your nano nerf, Caldari pigs.
LOL....have to love it :)
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Bohoba
Caldari
HolyKnights
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Posted - 2008.11.12 00:57:00 -
[16]
hehe charicter Bohoba can be recycled in 10 hours 55 min
another 70mill sp char bites the dust...
training an ammar noob now
10.5 hours a day do you have what it takes ?
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Kingwood
Amarr
Emos and Cowboys
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Posted - 2008.11.12 00:58:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Cpt Branko
Enjoy your nano nerf, Caldari pigs.
/thread
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Blastil
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Posted - 2008.11.12 00:58:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Bohoba
hehe charicter Bohoba can be recycled in 10 hours 55 min
another 70mill sp char bites the dust...
training an ammar noob now
about ur stuffs, can I haz?
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Terror Rising
Death Of Fallen Angels
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Posted - 2008.11.12 01:00:00 -
[19]
Ah it is only now that the vast majority of the EVE community (mission runners or 0.0 mains with mission runner alts for cash) are going to realise what impact this will have on the economy ..
I am looking forward to this ...
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Fungus Amongus
Caldari
Globo Gym
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Posted - 2008.11.12 01:02:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Bohoba
hehe charicter Bohoba can be recycled in 10 hours 55 min
another 70mill sp char bites the dust...
training an ammar noob now
So starting fresh is faster than cross-training?
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Nadarius Chrome
Celestial Industrial Alliance
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Posted - 2008.11.12 01:03:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Bohoba
hehe charicter Boohoo can be recycled in 10 hours 55 min
another 70mill sp char bites the dust...
training an ammar noob now
Fix't. 
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Caiman Graystock
Comrades in Construction
Anarchy.
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Posted - 2008.11.12 01:03:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Caiman Graystock on 12/11/2008 01:03:26
I just did Pirate Invasion lvl4, CNR versus Sansha... It took me about the same amount of time it took before the expansion, 7 CN Launchers, 5 Hammerhead II. Damage versus cruisers was less but at worst added an extra salvo.
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Darkie82
ICE is Coming to EVE
Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2008.11.12 01:05:00 -
[23]
In fact this velocity explosion nerf isn't understandable... perhaps CCP should have deleted all mmissiles/launchers items instead, it would be a more clear message to launcher users than nerfing them like hell.
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Taius Pax
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Posted - 2008.11.12 01:06:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Terror Rising
Ah it is only now that the vast majority of the EVE community (mission runners or 0.0 mains with mission runner alts for cash) are going to realise what impact this will have on the economy ..
I am looking forward to this ...
Missions after the patch are truly the most boring thing I've ever done in Eve and I've spent days mining / probing. Going on an hour and 20 minutes on this mission... It feels like a chore. If this is really what the developers intended it's definitely going to impact the economy, at least as far as their monthly income is concerned.
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Gojyu
Ever Flow
Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2008.11.12 01:06:00 -
[25]
1) Afterburners (which rats use) are now an effective way of tanking missiles
2) Missiles, like all battleship weapons, now have difficulties damaging cruisers, and extreme difficulty damaging frigates
3) Medium drones, like all cruiser weapons, now have difficulties damaging frigates
Thus, the raven is now in line with other battleships
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soldieroffortune 258
Gallente
Trinity Council
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Posted - 2008.11.12 01:07:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Cpt Branko
Enjoy your nano nerf, Caldari pigs.
i endorse this product / and or service
they might be powerful in the movies / trailers ( i mean, seriously, taking Caldari prime (the gallente's CAPITOL system) would be like simply allowing russia to walk on D.C. or something, its pathetic
Originally by: soldieroffortune 258
"Eve is about making yourself richer while making the other guy poorer"
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DreadedHunter
Caldari
ANZAC ALLIANCE
Southern Cross Alliance
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Posted - 2008.11.12 01:07:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Bohoba
hehe charicter Bohoba can be recycled in 10 hours 55 min
another 70mill sp char bites the dust...
training an ammar noob now
And this is quicker than cross training because...
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Ankhesentapemkah
Gallente
Aliastra
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Posted - 2008.11.12 01:08:00 -
[28]
Target painters and/or tracking computers (for turret ships) are a must now it seems.
Originally by: Cpt Branko
Enjoy your nano nerf, Caldari pigs.
Subtile
---
NEW MOVIE! CSM Campaign Thread |
Terror Rising
Death Of Fallen Angels
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Posted - 2008.11.12 01:08:00 -
[29]
Originally by: soldieroffortune 258
Originally by: Cpt Branko
Enjoy your nano nerf, Caldari pigs.
i endorse this product / and or service
they might be powerful in the movies / trailers ( i mean, seriously, taking Caldari prime (the gallente's CAPITOL system) would be like simply allowing russia to walk on D.C. or something, its pathetic
Get out role player boy ... 
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Tiirae
The New Era
HUZZAH FEDERATION
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Posted - 2008.11.12 01:11:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Bohoba
hehe charicter Bohoba can be recycled in 10 hours 55 min
another 70mill sp char bites the dust...
training an ammar noob now
Ha Ha, thats possibly the dumbest thing I've ever read. I am hoping like hell you really did this. Oh no! I've sprained my ankle... better take the whole leg off doc!
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DreadedHunter
Caldari
ANZAC ALLIANCE
Southern Cross Alliance
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Posted - 2008.11.12 01:12:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Tiirae
Originally by: Bohoba
hehe charicter Bohoba can be recycled in 10 hours 55 min
another 70mill sp char bites the dust...
training an ammar noob now
Ha Ha, thats possibly the dumbest thing I've ever read. I am hoping like hell you really did this. Oh no! I've sprained my ankle... better take the whole leg off doc!
And while your at it, do the other one as well so It's all nice and even...
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Jacob Mei
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Posted - 2008.11.12 01:14:00 -
[32]
When I used some Arb Cruise Missile launchers on the test server I didnt notice any problems, course I use them as a complimentry weapon now as opposed to the primary, thank god I switched to a mach towards the end of the summer instead of stayin in the raven.
--------------------------------
To borrow a phrase:
Players who post are like stars, there are bright ones and those who are dim.
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Demonic Sentiment
Caldari
Dissonance Corp
Libertas Fidelitas
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Posted - 2008.11.12 01:15:00 -
[33]
so they nerfed torps to hell idk how long ago.. i wasnt playing... im getting to my 1 yr playing.. and what do they do... completely destroy my missiles : /.. btw wont drones be overpowered now becuase they can switch out at any time.. thats like switching between standar missiles, heavy missiles, and cruises w/o having to dock
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Senmia
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Posted - 2008.11.12 01:22:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Bohoba
hehe charicter Bohoba can be recycled in 10 hours 55 min
another 70mill sp char bites the dust...
training an ammar noob now
Be sure they will nerf Amarr until you get there. Just crosstrain or stick to what you have and adapt. Big deal...
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Jacob Mei
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Posted - 2008.11.12 01:24:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Demonic Sentiment
so they nerfed torps to hell idk how long ago.. i wasnt playing... im getting to my 1 yr playing.. and what do they do... completely destroy my missiles : /.. btw wont drones be overpowered now becuase they can switch out at any time.. thats like switching between standar missiles, heavy missiles, and cruises w/o having to dock
You have always been able to have several sizes of drones in your hold at once, its just that many ships that arnt drone boats only have enough room for 5 med drones.
--------------------------------
To borrow a phrase:
Players who post are like stars, there are bright ones and those who are dim.
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Miss Marketing
University of Caille
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Posted - 2008.11.12 01:29:00 -
[36]
So carebears was nerfing speed ships worth you ability to make money easily?
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ZW Dewitt
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Posted - 2008.11.12 01:31:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Miss Marketing
So carebears was nerfing speed ships worth you ability to make money easily?
Yes.
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Jacob Mei
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Posted - 2008.11.12 01:32:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Miss Marketing
So carebears was nerfing speed ships worth you ability to make money easily?
For your tears, yes, yes it was.
--------------------------------
To borrow a phrase:
Players who post are like stars, there are bright ones and those who are dim.
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Demonic Sentiment
Caldari
Dissonance Corp
Libertas Fidelitas
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Posted - 2008.11.12 01:33:00 -
[39]
well i see the domi possably passing the raven as mission king.. with that drone bay
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Dirk Magnum
Royal Hiigaran Navy
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Posted - 2008.11.12 01:34:00 -
[40]
I dunno if Bohoba is EBay'd or bought legitimately, but the fact that at 70 million SPs his owner is ready to biomass and start fresh with Amarr instead of cross-training just SCREAMS purchased character. The inanity of it all makes me want to think EBay'd character but I'd hate to accuse someone openly of that 
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Gort
Storm Guard Elite
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Posted - 2008.11.12 01:38:00 -
[41]
Been reading these kinda patch day threads since they ****d the Stain region with Castor....
--
When in doubt, empty the magazine. |
Troye
Gallente
Independant Enterprises
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Posted - 2008.11.12 01:40:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Taius Pax
Apparently...
If this is working as intended and the future direction of Eve is several hour long missions, I think EVE's subscriber base is going to shrink...
Several Hour long missions? Thats not good for anyone, I know CCP want more ISK sinks but thats gunna put up the price of everything surely.
Maybe if the missions where actualy exciting it might be a worthy change but missioning just sounds even more mind numbingly boring now.
_______________________________________
"Arguing on the internet is like running in the Special Olympics...Even if you win, you're still ******ed. " |
Megan Maynard
Minmatar
Out of Order
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Posted - 2008.11.12 01:46:00 -
[43]
LMAO.
Total troll. I've seen the results and there is hardly any difference against large BS's.
But to feed the hungry troll.
I can see angels being a bigger problem, so get a target painter u noob.
Big ass sig radius means big ass hits. New motto of caldari navy.
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Demonic Sentiment
Caldari
Dissonance Corp
Libertas Fidelitas
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Posted - 2008.11.12 01:48:00 -
[44]
Big ass sig radius means big ass hits. New motto of caldari navy.
lol i like it... but how are cruise missiles hitting cruisers now.. am i not gonna see the single volley cruisers anymore : (
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Joss Sparq
Caldari
ANZAC ALLIANCE
Southern Cross Alliance
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Posted - 2008.11.12 01:48:00 -
[45]
Edited by: Joss Sparq on 12/11/2008 01:49:17
Originally by: Taius Pax
If this is working as intended and the future direction of Eve is several hour long missions, I think EVE's subscriber base is going to shrink...
Yes, those who don't adapt will die ... of even more tedium 
Originally by: Cpt Branko
Enjoy your nano nerf, Caldari pigs.
I'm sorry, I couldn't hear your racial epithet over the sound of the Blaster-nerf whines originating from the Gallente cowards.
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FeriIuce
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Posted - 2008.11.12 01:51:00 -
[46]
I'm damn ****ed over this nerf to SB's.
They reduce their mass so they are more agile and can warp longer, and then they make frigs able to speedtank their cruise missiles at the huge speed of 300 m/s
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Miranicla
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Posted - 2008.11.12 01:52:00 -
[47]
missiles were actuly boosted, look here
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dr doooo
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Posted - 2008.11.12 01:54:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Tiirae
Originally by: Bohoba
hehe charicter Bohoba can be recycled in 10 hours 55 min
another 70mill sp char bites the dust...
training an ammar noob now
Ha Ha, thats possibly the dumbest thing I've ever read. I am hoping like hell you really did this. Oh no! I've sprained my ankle... better take the whole leg off doc!
He better have, otherwise I'm going to feel really stupid when my 60mil sp char has finished biomass, and it turns out I'm the only one! Oh well, at least I will have made my point to ccp.
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Eternum Praetorian
Tupperware Party
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Posted - 2008.11.12 01:54:00 -
[49]
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Megan Maynard
Minmatar
Out of Order
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Posted - 2008.11.12 01:56:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Demonic Sentiment
Big ass sig radius means big ass hits. New motto of caldari navy.
lol i like it... but how are cruise missiles hitting cruisers now.. am i not gonna see the single volley cruisers anymore : (
You will if you have a bellicose sitting there making his sig radius huge.
OR if you have a target painter and they are MWD'ing.
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Kiotsu Adler
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Posted - 2008.11.12 01:59:00 -
[51]
lol at ravenfggs. it's called: nighthawk, cerberus, drake. pick one.
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Emeline Cabernet
Amarr
Amarr Border Defense Consortium
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2008.11.12 02:01:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Bohoba
hehe charicter Bohoba can be recycled in 10 hours 55 min
another 70mill sp char bites the dust...
training an ammar noob now
most stupid thing ive ever seen.
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Khamal Jolstien
Caldari
Product Number 3
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Posted - 2008.11.12 02:04:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Kiotsu Adler
lol at ravenfggs. it's called: nighthawk, cerberus, drake. pick one.
Those are also awful at the moment.
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Lochmar Fiendhiem
Caldari
Quicksilver Industries and Painful Effects Inc.
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Posted - 2008.11.12 02:08:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Bohoba
hehe charicter Bohoba can be recycled in 10 hours 55 min
another 70mill sp char bites the dust...
training an ammar noob now
thats just ******ed.
so in two months when you've trained all your learning skills for your "amarr noob" you'll be able to run lvl 1 missions.
Or you could train amarr cruiser 5 and medium beam/pulse laser to 5 for an amarr hac and lasers.
Originally by: Halkin
bob is dead, goons are great, cheese is cheesy, there we go no need for any more threads
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Megan Maynard
Minmatar
Out of Order
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Posted - 2008.11.12 02:08:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Khamal Jolstien
Originally by: Kiotsu Adler
lol at ravenfggs. it's called: nighthawk, cerberus, drake. pick one.
Those are also awful at the moment.
Ur funny. Cerb got a huge boost. Get skillz and target painter. Go to town.
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Demonic Sentiment
Caldari
Dissonance Corp
Libertas Fidelitas
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Posted - 2008.11.12 02:09:00 -
[56]
my cerb is a P.O.S. for pvp now.. i mean how the hell are two hacs sapost to kill each other when they can bearly kill each other
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Dartauw
Surge.
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Posted - 2008.11.12 02:11:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Cpt Branko
Enjoy your nano nerf, Caldari pigs.
♥♥♥
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Khamal Jolstien
Caldari
Product Number 3
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Posted - 2008.11.12 02:12:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Megan Maynard
Originally by: Khamal Jolstien
Originally by: Kiotsu Adler
lol at ravenfggs. it's called: nighthawk, cerberus, drake. pick one.
Those are also awful at the moment.
Ur funny. Cerb got a huge boost. Get skillz and target painter. Go to town.
Oh, I'm sorry, I almost thought you were serious. Didn't know target painters had any serious range to them, or that with all the required items to use in mid slots a cerb could survive close fights.
Be realistic.
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Sidus Isaacs
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Posted - 2008.11.12 02:12:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Nadarius Chrome
you're running a mission? On patch day? Are you insane?!?
So am I, I already did a few :).
And for the record, my cruises perform about the same actually. Bit more effecte at larger stuff, little less at smaller.
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Vitrael
Reaper Industries
Eternal Rapture
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Posted - 2008.11.12 02:13:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Taius Pax
I picked up Blockade lvl 4, and I've been shooting non stop for 30 minutes and I'm barely through the first spawn. 7X CN Launchers with 3X CN BCU. What kind of bull**** is this?
Lemme guess, you were all Ra-ra nano nerf until just now?
Enjoy the "nano nerf" (aka nerf everything patch) sucker!
-----
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Pr1ncess Alia
Caldari
Perkone
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 02:14:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Kiotsu Adler
lol at ravenfggs. it's called: nighthawk, cerberus, drake. pick one.
this sums up the voices for the changes.
how articulate and thought out. i'm guessing thats also your main
yeah, anyone that didn't think this was a direct nerf at missions to increase the grind is joking AND/OR drive people into getting a maurader (hey, isk and skill sink all in one) is crazy.
now you HAVE to leave highsec to make any isk. good or bad, people will leave.
ahem. *cough*
I TOLD YOU SO
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jdok
Gallente
Reaper Industries
Eternal Rapture
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Posted - 2008.11.12 02:16:00 -
[62]
YO SHIP IS TOO UBER! NERF NERF NERF RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
HAH YOU NOW GET NERFED! SLOW FOR YOU! RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
NO WAI MY RAVEN GOTZ NERFED TOO?!!?! NOOO!!! NO MAH SHIP WAS NOTZ TOO UBER?>! WHY YOU NERF?! RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
your carebear tears. they sustain me.
___________________________
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Chaos Incarnate
Faceless Logistics
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Posted - 2008.11.12 02:18:00 -
[63]
Golem is still fine, I don't understand the epic whine
_____________________
My opinions plus a tablespoon of water may be substituted for your own. |
Gunner Chick
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Posted - 2008.11.12 02:19:00 -
[64]
hey deva, tell me how satan and wildcat are doing in their 4 billion isk ravens
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ramification
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Posted - 2008.11.12 02:19:00 -
[65]
Edited by: ramification on 12/11/2008 02:22:20
Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah
Target painters and/or tracking computers (for turret ships) are a must now it seems.
Or perhaps the choice of modules will actually be a choice now, instead of there being maybe one viable PvP fit for every ship. That would be nice.
Quote:
now you HAVE to leave highsec to make any isk. good or bad, people will leave.
Sounds good to me.
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Megan Maynard
Minmatar
Out of Order
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Posted - 2008.11.12 02:20:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Khamal Jolstien
Originally by: Megan Maynard
Originally by: Khamal Jolstien
Originally by: Kiotsu Adler
lol at ravenfggs. it's called: nighthawk, cerberus, drake. pick one.
Those are also awful at the moment.
Ur funny. Cerb got a huge boost. Get skillz and target painter. Go to town.
Oh, I'm sorry, I almost thought you were serious. Didn't know target painters had any serious range to them, or that with all the required items to use in mid slots a cerb could survive close fights.
Be realistic.
135 km seems pretty good to me.
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Pr1ncess Alia
Caldari
Perkone
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Posted - 2008.11.12 02:21:00 -
[67]
Edited by: Pr1ncess Alia on 12/11/2008 02:21:19
Originally by: Chaos Incarnate
Golem is still fine, I don't understand the epic whine
thats cool
want to mission? well your going to need something that runs over a half billion and is uninsurable... AND DO WE HAVE A SHIP FOR YOU!
Just made it as of last patch as a matter of fact...still has that new car smell!
nerfing stuff to increase grind and sinks and calling it a patch.
you dont understand the epic whine?
"fit a painter newb"
no kidding, let me just get rid of that shield tank i had... no problem
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Demonic Sentiment
Caldari
Dissonance Corp
Libertas Fidelitas
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Posted - 2008.11.12 02:22:00 -
[68]
cerb vs zealot... cerb missiles can barely touch zealot.. but o look out.. zealot still ****en that cerb up lol
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Megan Maynard
Minmatar
Out of Order
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Posted - 2008.11.12 02:22:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Pr1ncess Alia
Edited by: Pr1ncess Alia on 12/11/2008 02:21:19
Originally by: Chaos Incarnate
Golem is still fine, I don't understand the epic whine
thats cool
want to mission? well your going to need something that runs over a half billion and is uninsurable... AND DO WE HAVE A SHIP FOR YOU!
Just made it as of last patch as a matter of fact...still has that new car smell!
nerfing stuff to increase grind and sinks and calling it a patch.
you dont understand the epic whine?
"fit a painter newb"
no kidding, let me just get rid of that shield tank i had... no problem
No I understand, the caldari, in their most primeval form must whine in order to sustain their "lifeforce". With out a way to get rid of their inner whine they will die a slow painful death.
|
Megan Maynard
Minmatar
Out of Order
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 02:24:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Demonic Sentiment
cerb vs zealot... cerb missiles can barely touch zealot.. but o look out.. zealot still ****en that cerb up lol
Precisions, target painter, use thermal missiles, watch zealot cry or both of you sit there tanking the other.
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Pr1ncess Alia
Caldari
Perkone
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 02:24:00 -
[71]
i like how the as the topic progresses across all the threads it isn't one actually regarding the changes but instead degenerates into more of an 'us vs them' attitude flame fest.
thats always a good sign
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Eternum Praetorian
Tupperware Party
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 02:26:00 -
[72]
Gimme a break....
This is the day that the nano pilots get back at all the whiners that cost them there ships.
I am Minmatar and I enjoyed my CNR. I also didn't give a **** about nano's cause I was just about to train for them. Now both are gone....
Time for Abaddon I guess....
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Demonic Sentiment
Caldari
Dissonance Corp
Libertas Fidelitas
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 02:26:00 -
[73]
Precisions, target painter, use thermal missiles, watch zealot cry or both of you sit there tanking the other.
o wait.. but have u looked the range of percision missiles has been ****d.. ntm the mwds are screwed over and my cerb has what a base speed of like 210m/s with a increased mass...
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Wendat Huron
Stellar Solutions
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 02:27:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Nadarius Chrome
you're running a mission? On patch day? Are you insane?!?
Better him than you. This is the man mommy told you to watch and watch out for, see how he burns.
These forums are FUBAR, upgrade this decade! |
Chaos Incarnate
Faceless Logistics
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 02:27:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Pr1ncess Alia
want to mission? well your going to need something that runs over a half billion and is uninsurable... AND DO WE HAVE A SHIP FOR YOU!
Keyword bolded. You don't need a golem to run missions, you're being overdramatic
Can I have your stuff, by the way?
_____________________
My opinions plus a tablespoon of water may be substituted for your own. |
Atherin Gaius
Caldari
Domini Umbrus
R.U.R.
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 02:28:00 -
[76]
this is a bunch of hooey. My cruise and torps hit for more against BCs than they do against BS rats. Isn't that completely opposite of how it should work?
|
Megan Maynard
Minmatar
Out of Order
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 02:28:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Demonic Sentiment
Precisions, target painter, use thermal missiles, watch zealot cry or both of you sit there tanking the other.
o wait.. but have u looked the range of percision missiles has been ****d.. ntm the mwds are screwed over and my cerb has what a base speed of like 210m/s with a increased mass...
So if he is out of precision range then he has beams.
WARP AWAY or use target painter and normal heavies as he probably isn't using a MWD? And if he is you will still hit him well since his sig radius will be huge.
OH NOES!
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MMXMMX
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 02:32:00 -
[78]
OMG max cruise skils and can hit the frigs any more lol
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Megan Maynard
Minmatar
Out of Order
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 02:32:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Atherin Gaius
this is a bunch of hooey. My cruise and torps hit for more against BCs than they do against BS rats. Isn't that completely opposite of how it should work?
Are said BC's MWD'ing in a astroid belt? If so it makes perfect sense, they are bigger targets.
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Centra Spike
Reaper Industries
Eternal Rapture
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 02:33:00 -
[80]
------
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Demonic Sentiment
Caldari
Dissonance Corp
Libertas Fidelitas
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 02:33:00 -
[81]
Edited by: Demonic Sentiment on 12/11/2008 02:33:18
Originally by: Megan Maynard
Originally by: Demonic Sentiment
Precisions, target painter, use thermal missiles, watch zealot cry or both of you sit there tanking the other.
o wait.. but have u looked the range of percision missiles has been ****d.. ntm the mwds are screwed over and my cerb has what a base speed of like 210m/s with a increased mass...
So if he is out of precision range then he has beams.
WARP AWAY or use target painter and normal heavies as he probably isn't using a MWD? And if he is you will still hit him well since his sig radius will be huge.
OH NOES!
o im sry didnt u hear.. u dont need a mwd to tank missiles now.. u can do it with a afterburner
|
Khamal Jolstien
Caldari
Product Number 3
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 02:39:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Megan Maynard
Originally by: Demonic Sentiment
cerb vs zealot... cerb missiles can barely touch zealot.. but o look out.. zealot still ****en that cerb up lol
Precisions, target painter, use thermal missiles, watch zealot cry or both of you sit there tanking the other.
Okay I was just going to ignore you but the amount of ignorance here is approaching the point where it's starting to hurt.
Target painter = less tank, cerberus melts.
Percision missiles: Range nerfed, hard. Brings them in much closer than the platform is designed for (assured death).
I actually went and tested out Cerberus on SiSi. It fails, hard.
|
Megan Maynard
Minmatar
Out of Order
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 02:40:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Demonic Sentiment
Edited by: Demonic Sentiment on 12/11/2008 02:33:18
Originally by: Megan Maynard
Originally by: Demonic Sentiment
Precisions, target painter, use thermal missiles, watch zealot cry or both of you sit there tanking the other.
o wait.. but have u looked the range of percision missiles has been ****d.. ntm the mwds are screwed over and my cerb has what a base speed of like 210m/s with a increased mass...
So if he is out of precision range then he has beams.
WARP AWAY or use target painter and normal heavies as he probably isn't using a MWD? And if he is you will still hit him well since his sig radius will be huge.
OH NOES!
o im sry didnt u hear.. u dont need a mwd to tank missiles now.. u can do it with a afterburner
HAHAHA this is like the commercial with the old lady in the car.
"I can't see"
"Raise the seat"
"I can't reach the pedels"
"Lower the seat"
Seriously, if he's using a AB, then he probably has beams, use t1 heavies with a target painter and you will hit him.
If he's using a MWD use Precisions and watch your missiles hit him.
Think about it.
MWD makes sig large and speed higher then anything AB can provide, and you hit for better damage.
Target fit an AB and goes slower and suddenly you CAN'T hit him......
What's missing there? Oh yeah he has a small sig radius, you need to make him larger.
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Kylar Renpurs
Dusk Blade
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 02:42:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Chaos Incarnate
Golem is still fine, I don't understand the epic whine
This :)
Improve Market Competition! |
Colonel Bloodtide
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 02:47:00 -
[85]
As an Amarr who runs missions, uses ABs and hates NPCs who use missiles, im very happy at the sound of this.
If im understanding the issue correctly that is.
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Demonic Sentiment
Caldari
Dissonance Corp
Libertas Fidelitas
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 02:48:00 -
[86]
Originally by: Megan Maynard
Originally by: Demonic Sentiment
Edited by: Demonic Sentiment on 12/11/2008 02:33:18
Originally by: Megan Maynard
Originally by: Demonic Sentiment
Precisions, target painter, use thermal missiles, watch zealot cry or both of you sit there tanking the other.
o wait.. but have u looked the range of percision missiles has been ****d.. ntm the mwds are screwed over and my cerb has what a base speed of like 210m/s with a increased mass...
So if he is out of precision range then he has beams.
WARP AWAY or use target painter and normal heavies as he probably isn't using a MWD? And if he is you will still hit him well since his sig radius will be huge.
OH NOES!
o im sry didnt u hear.. u dont need a mwd to tank missiles now.. u can do it with a afterburner
HAHAHA this is like the commercial with the old lady in the car.
"I can't see"
"Raise the seat"
"I can't reach the pedels"
"Lower the seat"
Seriously, if he's using a AB, then he probably has beams, use t1 heavies with a target painter and you will hit him.
If he's using a MWD use Precisions and watch your missiles hit him.
Think about it.
MWD makes sig large and speed higher then anything AB can provide, and you hit for better damage.
Target fit an AB and goes slower and suddenly you CAN'T hit him......
What's missing there? Oh yeah he has a small sig radius, you need to make him larger.
if he is runnign a mwd im not gonna be able to keep him in range to use my newly range nerfed percision missiles qith a target painter and ab or mwd in mids.. btw how am i sapost to be tanking him all this time...
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MMXMMX
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 02:48:00 -
[87]
Originally by: Kylar Renpurs
Originally by: Chaos Incarnate
Golem is still fine, I don't understand the epic whine
This :)
My Golem is hitting a frig for 30 dmg and that is with max cruise skils and 5 hardwire 5% missile implants and faction missiles and the frig is armor rapping faster then i can shoot in my Golem i cant hit **** .
We need a fix lol
|
Raigir
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 03:02:00 -
[88]
Edited by: Raigir on 12/11/2008 03:02:11
Missles are already getting some bad dps at times than compared to some turrents.
Why nerf them further.
They need more of a buff just to keep up with turrents. Sure blasters are very limited in range but pack a crap load of dps and sure missles are more versitle and have no such thing as tracking.(maybe explo velocity and sig radius)
But what good is it if it can't do squat to anything.
|
ArmyOfMe
4S Corporation
Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 03:09:00 -
[89]
oh the sweet sweet tears from the missile spammers that once whined about nanos
Originally by: deadmaus
Because by the time we had calmed Plague down after he heard BoB were back in the vicinity it was too late to do anything |
Demonic Sentiment
Caldari
Dissonance Corp
Libertas Fidelitas
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 03:14:00 -
[90]
i nvr thought i'd say it lol.. but bring back nano and bring back the old missiles : P...
|
Megan Maynard
Minmatar
Out of Order
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 03:15:00 -
[91]
STUFF
DUDE FFS you don't need precisions to hit a MWD'ing ship any more.
If you want a nano fit, fit the same damn thing and swap a Target painter for a web.
If you want more tank, fit a ab and a target painter and have someone tackle for you.
The zealot has to deal with the fact that if he has a MWD you WILL HIT HIM. If he doesn't you can dictate range and, gasp, hit him with a TP fit since his small sig radius will be negated.
Look at your missiles stats, if you can get his sig radius near yours then you are in business now. Before you could forget every having your missiles hit at all with the MWD speeds.
|
Vikarion
Caldari
White Rose Society
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 03:15:00 -
[92]
Originally by: Raigir
Edited by: Raigir on 12/11/2008 03:02:11
Missles are already getting some bad dps at times than compared to some turrents.
Why nerf them further.
They need more of a buff just to keep up with turrents. Sure blasters are very limited in range but pack a crap load of dps and sure missles are more versitle and have no such thing as tracking.(maybe explo velocity and sig radius)
But what good is it if it can't do squat to anything.
The reason I switched to guns early on is because missiles sucked. That was before all of this. Missiles, except for torpedoes after a certain expansion, have always sucked.
They hit for less DPS, they take too long to arrive at their target, they are easily avoided or outrun...so on and so forth. They were only really useful in PvE, or special circumstances. Guns were almost always better.
Obviously, this led CCP to decide that they were far too useful.
|
Demonic Sentiment
Caldari
Dissonance Corp
Libertas Fidelitas
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 03:19:00 -
[93]
Originally by: Vikarion
Originally by: Raigir
Edited by: Raigir on 12/11/2008 03:02:11
Missles are already getting some bad dps at times than compared to some turrents.
Why nerf them further.
They need more of a buff just to keep up with turrents. Sure blasters are very limited in range but pack a crap load of dps and sure missles are more versitle and have no such thing as tracking.(maybe explo velocity and sig radius)
But what good is it if it can't do squat to anything.
The reason I switched to guns early on is because missiles sucked. That was before all of this. Missiles, except for torpedoes after a certain expansion, have always sucked.
They hit for less DPS, they take too long to arrive at their target, they are easily avoided or outrun...so on and so forth. They were only really useful in PvE, or special circumstances. Guns were almost always better.
Obviously, this led CCP to decide that they were far too useful.
i really dont understand the last part of that lol..
|
Nadarius Chrome
Celestial Industrial Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 03:19:00 -
[94]
Originally by: MMXMMX
Originally by: Kylar Renpurs
Originally by: Chaos Incarnate
Golem is still fine, I don't understand the epic whine
This :)
My Golem is hitting a frig for 30 dmg and that is with max cruise skils and 5 hardwire 5% missile implants and faction missiles and the frig is armor rapping faster then i can shoot in my Golem i cant hit **** .
We need a fix lol
No, you need to put 5 light drones in your drone bay and shoot the big missiles at the big targets.
|
Malcanis
RuffRyders
Eradication Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 03:20:00 -
[95]
Originally by: Troye
Originally by: Taius Pax
Apparently...
If this is working as intended and the future direction of Eve is several hour long missions, I think EVE's subscriber base is going to shrink...
Several Hour long missions? Thats not good for anyone, I know CCP want more ISK sinks but thats gunna put up the price of everything surely.
Maybe if the missions where actualy exciting it might be a worthy change but missioning just sounds even more mind numbingly boring now.
How will reducing riskless income raise prices? Mission runners produce ISK, not goods and materials.
|
Raigir
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 03:20:00 -
[96]
Edited by: Raigir on 12/11/2008 03:24:10
Originally by: ArmyOfMe
oh the sweet sweet tears from the missile spammers that once whined about nanos
btw, I am gallente, and when it now comes down to use either the thorax as opposed to the caracal for something like pvp. Won't take a rocket scientist to figure that out. (oh wait the rocket scientists are out of buisness anyway)
edit:
@Malcanis - They produce isk by filling those buy orders of traders. Traders = affect economy.
|
Jason Edwards
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 03:23:00 -
[97]
Originally by: Colonel Bloodtide
As an Amarr who runs missions, uses ABs and hates NPCs who use missiles, im very happy at the sound of this.
If im understanding the issue correctly that is.
Npcs havent been changed in years. Your ab wont be any tank vs npcs.
------------------------
Have you fed your slaves recently?
-BRB Rens |
Lone Hitman
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 03:25:00 -
[98]
The only problem is that it's still taking 3 times as long to do a mission no matter what solution you offer.
|
Szent AdamKiraly
Reikoku
Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 03:26:00 -
[99]
lol reap what you sow fukwits.
|
Jason Edwards
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 03:27:00 -
[100]
Originally by: Nadarius Chrome
No, you need to put 5 light drones in your drone bay and shoot the big missiles at the big targets.
Except before the patch... the mwd npc frigs were killable with those BIG missiles. Now because of a totally unrelated nerf and balance. This has changed.
I do hope you realize the threadnaught that has just jumped in the forum. Whose whine module just activated. The longer this takes... the more the threadnaughts jump in. All sieging the hell out of the forums.
------------------------
Have you fed your slaves recently?
-BRB Rens |
Megan Maynard
Minmatar
Out of Order
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 03:27:00 -
[101]
Originally by: Lone Hitman
The only problem is that it's still taking 3 times as long to do a mission no matter what solution you offer.
Then clearly you aren't using a solution at all since I know for a fact the missions don't take any longer.
|
Rhaegor Stormborn
Omega Fleet Enterprises
Executive Outcomes
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 03:28:00 -
[102]
I am happy to see Caldari tears. It has been Caldari Online for far too long now. I wish I was Amarr, but I guess it isn't terrible being Minmatar right now.
|
Jason Edwards
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 03:29:00 -
[103]
Originally by: Szent AdamKiraly
lol reap what you sow fukwits.
carebears had nothing to do with the nano*** nerf.
Carebears are unable to use mwd. Meaning carebears have no interaction with 40km/s ships.
------------------------
Have you fed your slaves recently?
-BRB Rens |
Megan Maynard
Minmatar
Out of Order
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 03:29:00 -
[104]
Originally by: Jason Edwards
Originally by: Nadarius Chrome
No, you need to put 5 light drones in your drone bay and shoot the big missiles at the big targets.
Except before the patch... the mwd npc frigs were killable with those BIG missiles. Now because of a totally unrelated nerf and balance. This has changed.
I do hope you realize the threadnaught that has just jumped in the forum. Whose whine module just activated. The longer this takes... the more the threadnaughts jump in. All sieging the hell out of the forums.
And this is different from the nano nerf how?
I have to completely re think the way I fit ships now.
Join the club.
Caldari are really going for biggest whiners in the universe aren't they?
|
Demonic Sentiment
Caldari
Dissonance Corp
Libertas Fidelitas
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 03:30:00 -
[105]
umm.. when your weapons cant do enough dmg to break a frigs tank.. come back and talk to me about whining...
|
Lone Hitman
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 03:30:00 -
[106]
Originally by: Megan Maynard
Originally by: Lone Hitman
The only problem is that it's still taking 3 times as long to do a mission no matter what solution you offer.
Then clearly you aren't using a solution at all since I know for a fact the missions don't take any longer.
We at least have to wait for them to get into range of any solutions such as drones, webbers or painters, and all the while our shields are being dissipated a huge amount compared to before.
|
Anonymous Troll
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 03:31:00 -
[107]
Originally by: Demonic Sentiment
umm.. when your weapons cant do enough dmg to break a frigs tank.. come back and talk to me about whining...
I think you need to train more skills and check your ship setup. Either that or you are terrible and should quit Eve.
|
Taius Pax
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 03:33:00 -
[108]
Originally by: Megan Maynard
Originally by: Lone Hitman
The only problem is that it's still taking 3 times as long to do a mission no matter what solution you offer.
Then clearly you aren't using a solution at all since I know for a fact the missions don't take any longer.
Empirical evidence disagrees with your "facts." I did a check of my logs and against identical BS target shields (one example) damage has gone from 298 to 224. That's nearly 25% decrease and that's on a BS. I've checked quite a few and it's more or less in the range of 20-30% decrease on all of them. Cruisers and Frigs are far worse.
|
Demonic Sentiment
Caldari
Dissonance Corp
Libertas Fidelitas
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 03:34:00 -
[109]
Originally by: Anonymous Troll
Originally by: Demonic Sentiment
umm.. when your weapons cant do enough dmg to break a frigs tank.. come back and talk to me about whining...
I think you need to train more skills and check your ship setup. Either that or you are terrible and should quit Eve.
have u tried to use heavy missiles on a cerb yet? not like i can use hams.. now that there range has been nerfed to ****
|
Lone Hitman
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 03:34:00 -
[110]
Originally by: Anonymous Troll
Originally by: Demonic Sentiment
umm.. when your weapons cant do enough dmg to break a frigs tank.. come back and talk to me about whining...
I think you need to train more skills and check your ship setup. Either that or you are terrible and should quit Eve.
I have nearly max siege / marauder skills and the difference with this new patch is stupid.
|
Szent AdamKiraly
Reikoku
Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 03:34:00 -
[111]
Originally by: Jason Edwards
Originally by: Szent AdamKiraly
lol reap what you sow fukwits.
carebears had nothing to do with the nano*** nerf.
Carebears are unable to use mwd. Meaning carebears have no interaction with 40km/s ships.
Carebears had nothing to do with the nerf? That is quite possibly the dumbest thing i have heard all year.
|
Vikarion
Caldari
White Rose Society
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 03:35:00 -
[112]
Edited by: Vikarion on 12/11/2008 03:35:57
Originally by: Demonic Sentiment
Originally by: Anonymous Troll
Originally by: Demonic Sentiment
umm.. when your weapons cant do enough dmg to break a frigs tank.. come back and talk to me about whining...
I think you need to train more skills and check your ship setup. Either that or you are terrible and should quit Eve.
have u tried to use heavy missiles on a cerb yet? not like i can use hams.. now that there range has been nerfed to ****
Also, fitting HAMS on a Cerb is pretty much suicide by stupidity, since they die so easily.
|
Megan Maynard
Minmatar
Out of Order
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 03:37:00 -
[113]
Originally by: Vikarion
Edited by: Vikarion on 12/11/2008 03:35:57
Originally by: Demonic Sentiment
Originally by: Anonymous Troll
Originally by: Demonic Sentiment
umm.. when your weapons cant do enough dmg to break a frigs tank.. come back and talk to me about whining...
I think you need to train more skills and check your ship setup. Either that or you are terrible and should quit Eve.
have u tried to use heavy missiles on a cerb yet? not like i can use hams.. now that there range has been nerfed to ****
Also, fitting HAMS on a Cerb is pretty much suicide by stupidity, since they die so easily.
Lawl. Seriously, I love all the crying from people who really haven't tried this patch out at all yet.
|
Raigir
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 03:37:00 -
[114]
Originally by: Szent AdamKiraly
Originally by: Jason Edwards
Originally by: Szent AdamKiraly
lol reap what you sow fukwits.
carebears had nothing to do with the nano*** nerf.
Carebears are unable to use mwd. Meaning carebears have no interaction with 40km/s ships.
Carebears had nothing to do with the nerf? That is quite possibly the dumbest thing i have heard all year.
Nanoing involves being untouchable in a pvp setting, if this is what happens to something completely unrelated to pvp, this seriously needs to be rethinked.
|
Demonic Sentiment
Caldari
Dissonance Corp
Libertas Fidelitas
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 03:38:00 -
[115]
Originally by: Vikarion
Edited by: Vikarion on 12/11/2008 03:35:57
Originally by: Demonic Sentiment
Originally by: Anonymous Troll
Originally by: Demonic Sentiment
umm.. when your weapons cant do enough dmg to break a frigs tank.. come back and talk to me about whining...
I think you need to train more skills and check your ship setup. Either that or you are terrible and should quit Eve.
have u tried to use heavy missiles on a cerb yet? not like i can use hams.. now that there range has been nerfed to ****
Also, fitting HAMS on a Cerb is pretty much suicide by stupidity, since they die so easily.
explain.. the cerb gets a descent range bonus so u could shot em out to a decent range.. and get some actual dps
|
Megan Maynard
Minmatar
Out of Order
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 03:38:00 -
[116]
Demonic is starting to see the light.......
Keep running dude you are almost there!
|
Vikarion
Caldari
White Rose Society
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 03:39:00 -
[117]
Originally by: Megan Maynard
Lawl. Seriously, I love all the crying from people who really haven't tried this patch out at all yet.
Have you ever actually flown a Cerberus in combat?
For that matter, have you used Caldari ships for anything besides ratting?
|
Vikarion
Caldari
White Rose Society
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 03:42:00 -
[118]
Originally by: Demonic Sentiment
explain.. the cerb gets a descent range bonus so u could shot em out to a decent range.. and get some actual dps
Simple. Cerberus has very weak shields and can't nano effectively, especially now. It either needs its mids to hold a target down (if using HAMS), or is better employed sniping at range.
If you are going to go up close, use a Drake or a Caracal. At least the Drake is insurable.
The whole role of the Cerb was as a sniping ship. using it up close is throwing good ISK after bad.
|
HankMurphy
Minmatar
Pelennor Enterprises
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 03:42:00 -
[119]
sounds like everyone is shocked SHOCKED at the changes?
what did you expect?
lol at people screaming at mission runners "LOLOL this is what you get for nerfing my nanos"
i'm going to go out on a limb here and say it wasn't mission runners that did that. it was incompetent pvpers
sounds like an increase to grind? omg i'm shocked
you guys are really surprised by all this?
here is how i see quantum rise coming to be. imagine a sculptor trying to create his masterpiece. but every time he looks at it it's a bit unsymmetrical. so he shaves a bit off the left, and then a bit more off the right, until the final product is NOTHING like what the museum was expecting.
they didn't really nerf anything. a nerf is a calculated change to one aspect of the game. with quantum rise they completely changed the game foundations. subtle tweaks that have been made over several years were wiped and we started from zero.
the real question is, is this best in the long run??
well, i'll leave that judgement to time and you fine people.
i never did see what was wrong with the game to begin with, have been against every nerf they have thought up in the last 2 years....
------------------------------
everybody be cool this is a threadjack! just lay face down on the ground and no one will get hurt! |
Mattk50
Caldari
House Maadiah
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 03:43:00 -
[120]
oh, so gallente get to keep their drones, but we lose the advantage our missels give us huh? this is crap. gallente should have bad dps period but their drones should make up for it.
|
Bohoba
Caldari
HolyKnights
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 03:45:00 -
[121]
Originally by: Dirk Magnum
I dunno if Bohoba is EBay'd or bought legitimately, but the fact that at 70 million SPs his owner is ready to biomass and start fresh with Amarr instead of cross-training just SCREAMS purchased character. The inanity of it all makes me want to think EBay'd character but I'd hate to accuse someone openly of that
nope ccp can confirm OEM here :) almost 5 years of cald.
sp training adapting after nerf after nerf after nerf for 12 straight patches.
easier to train a noob up rather than look at all them wasted skill points....
I am adapting all new :) well if I can get the game to work patch didn't take lol had to head to work so somthing to do when I get off work
10.5 hours a day do you have what it takes ?
|
Vikarion
Caldari
White Rose Society
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 03:46:00 -
[122]
Originally by: HankMurphy
i'm going to go out on a limb here and say it wasn't mission runners that did that. it was incompetent pvpers
No kidding.
I just never saw the need to argue for more than a reduction to HAC speeds. I don't understand why it was necessary to re-invent the wheel, and less why the new wheel should be a square.
|
Cpt Branko
Surge.
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 03:46:00 -
[123]
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 12/11/2008 03:47:02
Originally by: Mattk50
oh, so gallente get to keep their drones, but we lose the advantage our missels give us huh? this is crap. gallente should have bad dps period but their drones should make up for it.
Well, now turret tracking has been nerfed by 400% in webrange, what do you want? Free lunch?
It's not like they didn't nerf medium drones too.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
EnslaverOfMinmatar
Yarsk Hunters
DeaDSpace Coalition
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 03:47:00 -
[124]
Edited by: EnslaverOfMinmatar on 12/11/2008 03:47:56
carebear tears!!!
\......./
.\...../
..\__/
fill mah bucket
uʍop ǝpısdn ǝɹnʇɐuƃıs ʎɯ ƃuıpɐǝɹ ǝɹɐ noʎ
|
Vikarion
Caldari
White Rose Society
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 03:47:00 -
[125]
Originally by: Bohoba
Originally by: Dirk Magnum
I dunno if Bohoba is EBay'd or bought legitimately, but the fact that at 70 million SPs his owner is ready to biomass and start fresh with Amarr instead of cross-training just SCREAMS purchased character. The inanity of it all makes me want to think EBay'd character but I'd hate to accuse someone openly of that
nope ccp can confirm OEM here :) almost 5 years of cald.
sp training adapting after nerf after nerf after nerf for 12 straight patches.
easier to train a noob up rather than look at all them wasted skill points....
I am adapting all new :) well if I can get the game to work patch didn't take lol had to head to work so somthing to do when I get off work
I still wouldn't do that. The shield skills aren't wasted, even if you armor tank (they give you a significant edge), and the learning skills sure aren't.
|
Vikarion
Caldari
White Rose Society
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 03:48:00 -
[126]
Originally by: Cpt Branko
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 12/11/2008 03:47:02
Originally by: Mattk50
oh, so gallente get to keep their drones, but we lose the advantage our missels give us huh? this is crap. gallente should have bad dps period but their drones should make up for it.
Well, now turret tracking has been nerfed by 400% in webrange, what do you want? Free lunch?
It's not like they didn't nerf medium drones too.
And I honestly don't understand the logic behind that.
|
Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 03:50:00 -
[127]
Originally by: Cpt Branko
Originally by: Taius Pax
I picked up Blockade lvl 4, and I've been shooting non stop for 30 minutes and I'm barely through the first spawn. 7X CN Launchers with 3X CN BCU. What kind of bull**** is this?
Enjoy your nano nerf, Caldari pigs.
ROAR
Originally by: CCP Navigator
People who think I am joking or talking big are going to understand very quickly that there will be order
|
Megan Maynard
Minmatar
Out of Order
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 03:50:00 -
[128]
Originally by: Vikarion
Originally by: Megan Maynard
Lawl. Seriously, I love all the crying from people who really haven't tried this patch out at all yet.
Have you ever actually flown a Cerberus in combat?
For that matter, have you used Caldari ships for anything besides ratting?
I've fought my fair share with the current patch and know you are all full of crap.
Missiles hit for good damage against a MWD'ing pilot unless that missile is in a class above the ship. IE: cruises against cruisers.
Even still they hit well as a MWD'ing pilot's sig will be HUGE.
The bigger the sig the harder they fall.
And I use missiles on all my ships and no they are not caldari. You aren't the only ones who use them after all.
In addition, the cerb is now faster, can hit any ship fit with a MWD pretty damn well, and with the addition of a target painter can make a AB'ing ships life miserable.
|
Sacul
Wreckless Abandon
G00DFELLAS
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 03:51:00 -
[129]
Its called balancing. You wanted nano's to go slower well... it all slows down including your missiles
ow also...
nano's still work in pvp as another WI massacre can testify (this after 4 days of local spam saying after tuesday we are all nothing in those speed boats teeheee)
|
Demonic Sentiment
Caldari
Dissonance Corp
Libertas Fidelitas
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 03:53:00 -
[130]
Originally by: Vikarion
Originally by: Demonic Sentiment
explain.. the cerb gets a descent range bonus so u could shot em out to a decent range.. and get some actual dps
Simple. Cerberus has very weak shields and can't nano effectively, especially now. It either needs its mids to hold a target down (if using HAMS), or is better employed sniping at range.
If you are going to go up close, use a Drake or a Caracal. At least the Drake is insurable.
The whole role of the Cerb was as a sniping ship. using it up close is throwing good ISK after bad.
i want to be able to get up on the kill mials.. not at the very bottum lol
|
I SoStoned
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 03:53:00 -
[131]
Edited by: I SoStoned on 12/11/2008 03:53:47
Originally by: Raigir
Edited by: Raigir on 12/11/2008 03:24:10
Originally by: ArmyOfMe
oh the sweet sweet tears from the missile spammers that once whined about nanos
btw, I am gallente, and when it now comes down to use either the thorax as opposed to the caracal for something like pvp. Won't take a rocket scientist to figure that out. (oh wait the rocket scientists are out of buisness anyway)
Incorrect... rocket scientists are still in business because that's the only missile system that still does a decent bit of DPS under the new system. Rage rockets no longer gimp cap regen (sig increase) and rockets can catch up with & do almost full damage to an AB'ing frig. Against a cruiser rage rockets do some pretty nice damage compared to light missiles.
Originally by: Raigir
edit:
@Malcanis - They produce isk by filling those buy orders of traders. Traders = affect economy.
Traders define the entire economy. Without them the market has no goods to buy. Mission runners generate ISK but their item recovery is too low to really impact the market. PvP pilots invest ISK, they seldom both produce goods and/or ISK unless they follow subspecializations in the market/industry side or hunt Rats.
|
Viper ShizzIe
The Illuminati.
Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 03:55:00 -
[132]
ADAPT OR DIE NANO*****S
|
Vikarion
Caldari
White Rose Society
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 03:56:00 -
[133]
Originally by: Megan Maynard
Originally by: Vikarion
Originally by: Megan Maynard
Lawl. Seriously, I love all the crying from people who really haven't tried this patch out at all yet.
Have you ever actually flown a Cerberus in combat?
For that matter, have you used Caldari ships for anything besides ratting?
I've fought my fair share with the current patch and know you are all full of crap.
Missiles hit for good damage against a MWD'ing pilot unless that missile is in a class above the ship. IE: cruises against cruisers.
Even still they hit well as a MWD'ing pilot's sig will be HUGE.
The bigger the sig the harder they fall.
And I use missiles on all my ships and no they are not caldari. You aren't the only ones who use them after all.
In addition, the cerb is now faster, can hit any ship fit with a MWD pretty damn well, and with the addition of a target painter can make a AB'ing ships life miserable.
I think you missed the part where:
1. They don't hit anyone else nearly as hard.
2. The Cerb isn't THAT much faster.
3. An AB reduces already reduced DPS further.
4. You don't fly the Cerb., so your opinions about it aren't really relevant, are they, unless you can state numbers.
With the reduction to the effectiveness of many missiles' sniping abilities (precision, anyone?) why not just use a Drake?
|
Berious
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 03:58:00 -
[134]
Originally by: Cpt Branko
[
Enjoy your nano nerf, Caldari pigs.
Quoting dis
|
Szent AdamKiraly
Reikoku
Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 03:59:00 -
[135]
God the irony is sweet hahahahah.
|
Nifan
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 04:02:00 -
[136]
Originally by: Allora Lyn
Amarr, train'em
what?
i just lost a paladin
|
Vikarion
Caldari
White Rose Society
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 04:03:00 -
[137]
Edited by: Vikarion on 12/11/2008 04:03:21
Originally by: Nifan
Originally by: Allora Lyn
Amarr, train'em
what?
i just lost a paladin
All battleships have been nerfed. Not really worth it to fly them except in fleet fights now, IMO. Unless you have gangmates and drones.
EDIT: Agility, speed, ability to hit, drones, etc.
|
Dianeces
The Illuminati.
Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 04:03:00 -
[138]
Epic ****ing karma.
BAWWWW, MY MISSILES DON'T THE UBEREREER OVER 9000km/s NANO-HACS!!!!
|
Cpt Branko
Surge.
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 04:06:00 -
[139]
Originally by: Vikarion
Originally by: Cpt Branko
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 12/11/2008 03:47:02
Originally by: Mattk50
oh, so gallente get to keep their drones, but we lose the advantage our missels give us huh? this is crap. gallente should have bad dps period but their drones should make up for it.
Well, now turret tracking has been nerfed by 400% in webrange, what do you want? Free lunch?
It's not like they didn't nerf medium drones too.
And I honestly don't understand the logic behind that.
That's because Caldari don't know jack about game mechanics.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Thorian Baalnorn
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 04:06:00 -
[140]
I got an idea how about we make missles completely useless? Oh wait just did that. I got another idea ... how about we make stealth bombers completely useless? Oh wait did that too. i got an idea how about we make it so you need a fleet of BS to do a level 4 mission in less than 6 hours? wait done that too..
I dont typically complain about anything. IM use to devs making patches that constantly require me to change both my toons and in this case my loadouts. but you might as well give us a bow and arrows to shoot.
I just went out to play in my NEW stealth bomber which i spent 18 mil on to find out now instead of being a glass cannon raven its now effectively an overpriced kessy that can fire bigger( and less effective) missles. i went from 650 dam per hit to 180 on the same ship type. That is a reduction to almost 25% of the original damage. you didnt nerf missles you completely ****d them... 1/4 damage is not a nerf 75% damage is a nerf. 25% is making it a long range rocket.
Missles have never really been a "great" pvp weapon since i have started playing. Some ships make them a good pvp weapon such as the manticore which is a good long range heavy dps frigate. but up close its as fragile a its 300k isk counter part.
..... Right before this patch i read , from a dev, that ccp wanted to change things so their would be more viable options for players. So that we didnt go with the FOTD and cookiecutter builds and made a varity of ships.
Lets think about this CCP, you effectly just wiped a whole weapon class and basically a whole role out of "viable builds" . Missles werent often used in pvp before now it will next to 0 for missle use in pvp after this patch.
you just contradicted yourself, CCP. your not improving the game , your making it worse. your giving us less options to use instead of more. now everyones going to use basically long range guns for long range fighting.
I have an idea... since we pay you why dont you fix what we say needs fixing? personally, and i dont visit boards much but in game, i have not heard one thing about missles needing nerfed that they were to powerful. Speed their has been complaints about but never about missles.
you should of left the missle nerf alone and just use the speed nerf which would of made missles ALOT MORE VIABLE thus instead of everyone using guns for pvp people might actually start doing missle boat builds.
Do you guys actually think about logic behind these changes before you incorperate them into the game. do you get drunk/wasted and say " hey, it would be a cool idea if we made missles do the same damage as rockets" or hey think we should nerf missles so they arent overpowered when they hit slower moving targets?".... wasnt the point so they could be a viable weapon against speed tanks?
So CCP I have one question for you... when you though of this missle nerf to give us "more viable options" so their would be more of a "variety of loadouts" ... WERE YOU F***ING HIGH when you thought of this ingenius plan?
|
Pedro Snachez
Revolution Holdings
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 04:07:00 -
[141]
I fly a Kronos with pretty much maxed out gunnery and I needed to fit 2 Shadow Serp tracking comps and a domination web to be able to hit cruisers and frigs orbiting me. Let me just say that the whines about your max-dps Ravens/Golems having issues killing smaller ships warms me inside. Welcome to how the rest of the mission-running world does things. And by does things, I mean "uses their brains".
1. Use drones.
2. Use Target painters.
3. Go a little lighter on the unnecessary perma-run booster setups.
4. Profit.
Sorry you can't do missions on braindead afk mode anymore.
|
Vikarion
Caldari
White Rose Society
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 04:11:00 -
[142]
Originally by: Cpt Branko
That's because Caldari don't know jack about game mechanics.
No, it's because it was a stupid decision.
And I have about 15 million SP in Amarr, about 1.8 in Caldari. What does that tell you?
|
Bohoba
Caldari
HolyKnights
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 04:11:00 -
[143]
Originally by: Szent AdamKiraly
God the irony is sweet hahahahah.
lol we are just back to square 1 :) nano will still be there we still won't be able to hit them or catch them just everything got slowed down so changeded nothing.
took a lot of brain power on this patch I just hope the new code and hardware preform better than this speed decrease of eve.
10.5 hours a day do you have what it takes ?
|
Mr Banzai
Caldari Rogue Squadron
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 04:12:00 -
[144]
Cute, it's the trollfest time. Must be empty and lonely under all those bridges now.
In other news, dear Megan, i'm calling BS (no, not the battleship) on your claim of trying missiles out there and getting good results. Go get a clue on what difference is there between explosion radius (which is the same as before the patch) and explosion velocity (which is the one nerfed to kingdom come and which doesn't have to do ANYTHING with ship size).
CCP, you've made a mistake, fix it please.
|
Cpt Branko
Surge.
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 04:13:00 -
[145]
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 12/11/2008 04:14:47
Originally by: Vikarion
Originally by: Cpt Branko
That's because Caldari don't know jack about game mechanics.
No, it's because it was a stupid decision.
And I have about 15 million SP in Amarr, about 1.8 in Caldari. What does that tell you?
You know how badly Amarr with 1.8M SP suck?
Oh, wait you want easymode without any SP, or fitting challenges? Ohwait.
That said, the patch, as a whole, sucks. But pretending like missiles are the broken thing is laughable.
Originally by: Mr Banzai
Cute, it's the trollfest time. Must be empty and lonely under all those bridges now.
In other news, dear Megan, i'm calling BS (no, not the battleship) on your claim of trying missiles out there and getting good results. Go get a clue on what difference is there between explosion radius (which is the same as before the patch) and explosion velocity (which is the one nerfed to kingdom come and which doesn't have to do ANYTHING with ship size).
CCP, you've made a mistake, fix it please.
Get a clue. The missile damage formula has been found and posted (and yes, you need to web targets to do full DPS, but target painting also works depending on target size as large sig now counteracts targets outrunning explosion velocity). You just haven't been paying attention and were going 'lol, nano whiners' when people said 'SISI sucks'. Well, enjoy.
Have fun with it now.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Viper ShizzIe
The Illuminati.
Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 04:13:00 -
[146]
|
Szent AdamKiraly
Reikoku
Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 04:14:00 -
[147]
Originally by: Viper ****zIe
Oh quotin dis.
|
Vikarion
Caldari
White Rose Society
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 04:15:00 -
[148]
Originally by: Pedro Snachez
1. Use drones.
Kronos drone bay: 125 m3
Raven drone bay: 75 m3
Originally by: Pedro Snachez
2. Use Target painters.
Shield tank.
Originally by: Pedro Snachez
3. Go a little lighter on the unnecessary perma-run booster setups.
That's a Dominix you're thinking of. Ravens don't perma-tank well without really expensive dead-space/officer gear.
Originally by: Pedro Snachez
4. Profit.
Not anymore.
Originally by: Pedro Snachez
Sorry you can't do missions on braindead afk mode anymore.
Again, you are thinking of a Dominix. In a Raven, it's literally impossible to AFK mission. Someone has to fire the missiles.
|
Thorian Baalnorn
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 04:16:00 -
[149]
Originally by: Pedro Snachez
I fly a Kronos with pretty much maxed out gunnery and I needed to fit 2 Shadow Serp tracking comps and a domination web to be able to hit cruisers and frigs orbiting me. Let me just say that the whines about your max-dps Ravens/Golems having issues killing smaller ships warms me inside. Welcome to how the rest of the mission-running world does things. And by does things, I mean "uses their brains".
1. Use drones.
2. Use Target painters.
3. Go a little lighter on the unnecessary perma-run booster setups.
4. Profit.
Sorry you can't do missions on braindead afk mode anymore.
UM as far as i know target painters dont work with missles. at least they never have with my ships.
|
Khamal Jolstien
Caldari
Product Number 3
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 04:17:00 -
[150]
Originally by: Thorian Baalnorn
Originally by: Pedro Snachez
I fly a Kronos with pretty much maxed out gunnery and I needed to fit 2 Shadow Serp tracking comps and a domination web to be able to hit cruisers and frigs orbiting me. Let me just say that the whines about your max-dps Ravens/Golems having issues killing smaller ships warms me inside. Welcome to how the rest of the mission-running world does things. And by does things, I mean "uses their brains".
1. Use drones.
2. Use Target painters.
3. Go a little lighter on the unnecessary perma-run booster setups.
4. Profit.
Sorry you can't do missions on braindead afk mode anymore.
UM as far as i know target painters dont work with missles. at least they never have with my ships.
They do now kinda. Unfortunately you have to reduce your tank even further by losing yet another midslot. It still doesn't return it to full effectiveness unfortunately.
|
Vikarion
Caldari
White Rose Society
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 04:17:00 -
[151]
Originally by: Cpt Branko
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 12/11/2008 04:14:47
Originally by: Vikarion
Originally by: Cpt Branko
That's because Caldari don't know jack about game mechanics.
No, it's because it was a stupid decision.
And I have about 15 million SP in Amarr, about 1.8 in Caldari. What does that tell you?
You know how badly Amarr with 1.8M SP suck?
Oh, wait you want easymode without any SP, or fitting challenges? Ohwait.
That said, the patch, as a whole, sucks. But pretending like missiles are the broken thing is laughable.
You're missing the point. I don't have a huge personal stake in this, and it's my opinion that the whole system is now practically destroyed.
|
Dianeces
The Illuminati.
Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 04:18:00 -
[152]
Originally by: Vikarion
Kronos drone bay: 125 m3
Raven drone bay: 75 m3
Turns out five light drones only take up 25m3. Which conveniently leaves 50m3 for a flight of five medium drones. It's amazing how that works.
|
GO MaZ
The Illuminati.
Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 04:21:00 -
[153]
I have a claymore. It goes 8k/sec with an oversized mwd on, after the patch. Cruise from a manticore STILL hit it for 200 a pop (even though they're too slow to catch it haha). I severely doubt they suck that ****ing bad against cruisers, and you should be using drones against frigs anyway. As with any major balancing patch, you have to work around the new issues that the balancing creates. Missile users have to find new ways of achieving the same damage, nano users have to find new ways of achieving the same damage avoidance / tanking ability. Adapt or die!
---
|
Vikarion
Caldari
White Rose Society
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 04:21:00 -
[154]
Originally by: Dianeces
Originally by: Vikarion
Kronos drone bay: 125 m3
Raven drone bay: 75 m3
Turns out five light drones only take up 25m3. Which conveniently leaves 50m3 for a flight of five medium drones. It's amazing how that works.
Did you read the patch notes? Drones got nerfed. And, unless you're packing drone links, good luck getting Guristas to get close enough to hit.
Also, many players are complaining that their missiles aren't doing very much damage to BS, either.
|
Pr1ncess Alia
Caldari
Perkone
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 04:22:00 -
[155]
Originally by: Dianeces
Originally by: Vikarion
Kronos drone bay: 125 m3
Raven drone bay: 75 m3
Turns out five light drones only take up 25m3. Which conveniently leaves 50m3 for a flight of five medium drones. It's amazing how that works.
and we all know medium drones ROCK vs cruisers
i know, i'll go fit a target painter and ignore my tank.
they didn't really nerf the uber rich mission runners. but Joe Anyone expecting to go out there in a t1 raven will be having a rough time of it.
|
Vikarion
Caldari
White Rose Society
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 04:22:00 -
[156]
Originally by: GO MaZ
I have a claymore. It goes 8k/sec with an oversized mwd on, after the patch. Cruise from a manticore STILL hit it for 200 a pop (even though they're too slow to catch it haha). I severely doubt they suck that ****ing bad against cruisers, and you should be using drones against frigs anyway. As with any major balancing patch, you have to work around the new issues that the balancing creates. Missile users have to find new ways of achieving the same damage, nano users have to find new ways of achieving the same damage avoidance / tanking ability. Adapt or die!
Try using an AB. Should cut down that incoming damage a bit.
|
GO MaZ
The Illuminati.
Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 04:23:00 -
[157]
Originally by: Pr1ncess Alia
Joe Anyone expecting to go out there in a t1 raven will be having a rough time of it.
Joe anyone should train some more skills or stick to doing level 3's until he has enough SP to use missiles properly (they still work surprisingly!)
---
|
Taius Pax
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 04:25:00 -
[158]
Edited by: Taius Pax on 12/11/2008 04:25:54
Originally by: Pedro Snachez
I fly a Kronos with pretty much maxed out gunnery and I needed to fit 2 Shadow Serp tracking comps and a domination web to be able to hit cruisers and frigs orbiting me. Let me just say that the whines about your max-dps Ravens/Golems having issues killing smaller ships warms me inside. Welcome to how the rest of the mission-running world does things. And by does things, I mean "uses their brains".
1. Use drones.
2. Use Target painters.
3. Go a little lighter on the unnecessary perma-run booster setups.
4. Profit.
Sorry you can't do missions on braindead afk mode anymore.
1. Use drones. Check!
2. Use Target painters. OH CRAP, RAVENS SHIELD TANK AND KIND OF NEED THAT MID SLOT
3. Go a little lighter on the unnecessary perma-run booster setups.
- OK Pedro, you just lost your cred. It's nearly impossible to perma tank an active shield set up and have it do any kind of damage. I've never known anyone who uses a perma tank Raven to mission.
|
Thorian Baalnorn
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 04:28:00 -
[159]
OK, correct me if im wrong, But they nerfed missles so you do less damage to speeding ships( speed tanks) but they nerfed ship speeds so you could actually hit them with missles. This is how i am understanding it.
So they nerfed one thing( speed tanking) so missles were useable against speed tanks( amoung other reasons) then they nerfed missles so speed tanking was once again viable tanking for missles.
So in short the actual change is they ****ed twice as many people off yet everything in a fight will play out exactly the same way between a missleboat and speed tank....
|
Dianeces
The Illuminati.
Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 04:29:00 -
[160]
Edited by: Dianeces on 12/11/2008 04:31:41
Originally by: Vikarion
Did you read the patch notes? Drones got nerfed.
Medium drones got nerfed.....against frigate sized targets.
Furthermore,
Originally by: Vikarion
And, unless you're packing drone links, good luck getting Guristas to get close enough to hit.
And, unless then changed the Raven, it has two utility high slots to fit drone links.
Edit:
Originally by: Pr1ncess Alia
and we all know medium drones ROCK vs cruisers
I'm sure if you let the medium drones work on the cruisers and BCs while you're shooting the BS with your cruises you'll be fine. Of course, this would require using proper sized weapons for proper sized targets. I know that's a tough concept to get used to, I'm sure you'll adapt though. Or die. Either way.
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Pr1ncess Alia
Caldari
Perkone
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 04:30:00 -
[161]
Originally by: GO MaZ
Originally by: Pr1ncess Alia
Joe Anyone expecting to go out there in a t1 raven will be having a rough time of it.
Joe anyone should train some more skills or stick to doing level 3's until he has enough SP to use missiles properly (they still work surprisingly!)
i dont disagree with you
but notice how they never really went out and said 'level 4 missions are too profitable for empire, the difficulty of these have been brought in line" or whatever in patch notes.
I'm not naive, i think they knew full well what they were doing. Either you are going to go back to level 3's or you are going to invest in their uninsurable golem isksink designed for one thing and one thing only, level 4 missions.
either way, its a crappy and needless thing to do in my opinion, that makes it a valid ***ch (not something i need educated on, which this thread seems more than abundant of people willing to 'educate' those voicing their complaints (aka trolling and rubbing it in w/ obvious information).
If they want to continue to increase grind and isk sinks they need to come out and say it.
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Vikarion
Caldari
White Rose Society
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 04:30:00 -
[162]
Originally by: Thorian Baalnorn
OK, correct me if im wrong, But they nerfed missles so you do less damage to speeding ships( speed tanks) but they nerfed ship speeds so you could actually hit them with missles. This is how i am understanding it.
So they nerfed one thing( speed tanking) so missles were useable against speed tanks( amoung other reasons) then they nerfed missles so speed tanking was once again viable tanking for missles.
So in short the actual change is they ****ed twice as many people off yet everything in a fight will play out exactly the same way between a missleboat and speed tank....
It's a little more complex than that...
Missiles were generally nerfed - less DPS, less ability to hit smaller ships.
MWDs were nerfed. Missiles are still good against MWD-using ships.
Net result? Missiles suck against anything not using an MWD or a size catergory larger (in which case they still suck, because they don't do enough DPS).
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Pedro Snachez
Revolution Holdings
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 04:31:00 -
[163]
Originally by: Vikarion
Originally by: Pedro Snachez
1. Use drones.
Kronos drone bay: 125 m3
Raven drone bay: 75 m3
Originally by: Pedro Snachez
2. Use Target painters.
Shield tank.
Originally by: Pedro Snachez
3. Go a little lighter on the unnecessary perma-run booster setups.
That's a Dominix you're thinking of. Ravens don't perma-tank well without really expensive dead-space/officer gear.
Originally by: Pedro Snachez
4. Profit.
Not anymore.
Originally by: Pedro Snachez
Sorry you can't do missions on braindead afk mode anymore.
Again, you are thinking of a Dominix. In a Raven, it's literally impossible to AFK mission. Someone has to fire the missiles.
True to an extent. I was really addressing the OP who was complaining that his Uber DPS fit didn't work so well anymore. But Some of your points aren't totally accurate either.
1. Yes, the Kronos bay is bigger. However, bay size =/= bandwidth. The Raven can carry a flight of lights and mediums and that's all you should be using on cruisers/frigs anyway, so what's the point?
2. Shield Tank. You seriously can't sacrifice 1 slot to use a target painter? I've flown a Raven and 95% of missions won't even come close to pushing your tank as long as you don't aggro the whole room. If you need to use all of your mids and rigs for tank then you're doing something wrong. This expansion seems to be all about sig radius, so why is it such blasphemy that you might need to sacrifice some tank for gank? Before this patch the Raven had it both ways: Uncontested lows for BCUs and mids for tank. Now you'll have to balance it.
3. Again, I was aimed more at the OP. If he's got highs full of faction launchers, my guess would be that he has a faction tank too.
4. As for the profit, we'll see. My guess is that people are unwilling to break out of their old ways of thinking about CNRs and Golems. There are people that are figuring out that nano still works to a certain degree, just without all the polycarbon rigs. This probably won't be any different.
5. I wasn't meaning true walk away from keyboard. Sorry. I just meant the F1-F7, try not to fall asleep way of doing missions.
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GO MaZ
The Illuminati.
Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 04:31:00 -
[164]
Originally by: Vikarion
Try using an AB. Should cut down that incoming damage a bit.
I had a poke about with missiles on sisi a couple of days ago. The only problem I had hitting with a cruise raven on a cruiser sized ship was with a haloed ab vaga going full speed (~1300m/s). Your mission cruiser rats are definitely not going 1300m/s on ab and I can almost guarantee you they have a bigger sig than the vaga. Target painters also made a massive difference to damage in that case, more so than a web.
You could always try target painting drones if you're not willing to replace tank with a TP, but you have so many options available to you to improve your damage output vs. small targets it isn't even funny - web drones, target painter drones, explosion velocity rigs, explosion radius rigs, damage drones, better skills, hardwirings, the list goes on. You could even team up with someone else and run missions with a friend with a target painter on, but god forbid people play multiplayer in an MMO right?
---
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Pr1ncess Alia
Caldari
Perkone
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 04:31:00 -
[165]
Originally by: Thorian Baalnorn
OK, correct me if im wrong, But they nerfed missles so you do less damage to speeding ships( speed tanks) but they nerfed ship speeds so you could actually hit them with missles. This is how i am understanding it.
So they nerfed one thing( speed tanking) so missles were useable against speed tanks( amoung other reasons) then they nerfed missles so speed tanking was once again viable tanking for missles.
So in short the actual change is they ****ed twice as many people off yet everything in a fight will play out exactly the same way between a missleboat and speed tank....
see my last post.
i think it evolved that way yes... but then they realized they had more to gain than looking at just those 2 variables of the equation.
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Khamal Jolstien
Caldari
Product Number 3
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 04:32:00 -
[166]
Originally by: Vikarion
Originally by: Thorian Baalnorn
OK, correct me if im wrong, But they nerfed missles so you do less damage to speeding ships( speed tanks) but they nerfed ship speeds so you could actually hit them with missles. This is how i am understanding it.
So they nerfed one thing( speed tanking) so missles were useable against speed tanks( amoung other reasons) then they nerfed missles so speed tanking was once again viable tanking for missles.
So in short the actual change is they ****ed twice as many people off yet everything in a fight will play out exactly the same way between a missleboat and speed tank....
It's a little more complex than that...
Missiles were generally nerfed - less DPS, less ability to hit smaller ships.
MWDs were nerfed. Missiles are still good against MWD-using ships.
Net result? Missiles suck against anything not using an MWD or a size catergory larger (in which case they still suck, because they don't do enough DPS).
This is definitely the problem. Missiles have a ton of drawbacks, compensated by ease of use.
Now it has all those drawbacks and no good points about them.
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Aeo IV
Amarr
Xomic OmniCorporation
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 04:33:00 -
[167]
This seems to happen every time CCP makes a change to the game balance, they try to make some fix in the game's pvp, which may or may not be broken, but manage to hit everyone with the nerf bat, it's stupid, and it needs to stop.
CCP really needs to stop listening to goddamn whiny pvpers out there, because it's a PVEers who are paying a greater percentile of the total income from this game, not the average PVPer. I'm not suggesting that CCP should carter to the PVEer at the expense of the PVPer, but CCP really shouldn't be catering to the PVPer at the expense of the PVEer.
Yes, Nanos where a problem, yes, CCP tried to fix the problem, but Missiles, being already crap for PVP, but very good for PVE, should not have been hit with the nerf bat.
There are many ways that the nano problem could have been solved, but this isn't it, and I don't know who in CCP thought this would solve the problem.
As I identified months ago, the problem with Nanos is that Webbers simply don't work well against them-- you need often times, more then one webber to slow it down enough to hit it, and often times they'd slip out of range. All CCP needed to do is realize that the problem with the webber is that it simply doesn't have the range to do it's job, and simply cannot slow the target down enough, or fast enough, to make a difference.
Like I said a long while ago, the problem has to do with the way the game handles modifies, as always a percent, which means if you move fast enough, I can take away 99% of your speed, and still have you moving faster then a ship can hit. This is a fundamental underlying problem. I suspect it causes other problems with the game we're not aware of as of yet, and it will cause future problems.
But CCP choice not to realize this problem, in favor of a series of nerfs that ends up hurting everyone, including people who aren't even using nanos, and ultimately benefits few to none.
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Pr1ncess Alia
Caldari
Perkone
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 04:37:00 -
[168]
Originally by: Pedro Snachez
1. Yes, the Kronos bay is bigger. However, bay size =/= bandwidth. The Raven can carry a flight of lights and mediums and that's all you should be using on cruisers/frigs anyway, so what's the point?
2. Shield Tank. You seriously can't sacrifice 1 slot to use a target painter? I've flown a Raven and 95% of missions won't even come close to pushing your tank as long as you don't aggro the whole room. If you need to use all of your mids and rigs for tank then you're doing something wrong. This expansion seems to be all about sig radius, so why is it such blasphemy that you might need to sacrifice some tank for gank? Before this patch the Raven had it both ways: Uncontested lows for BCUs and mids for tank. Now you'll have to balance it.
3. Again, I was aimed more at the OP. If he's got highs full of faction launchers, my guess would be that he has a faction tank too.
4. As for the profit, we'll see. My guess is that people are unwilling to break out of their old ways of thinking about CNRs and Golems. There are people that are figuring out that nano still works to a certain degree, just without all the polycarbon rigs. This probably won't be any different.
5. I wasn't meaning true walk away from keyboard. Sorry. I just meant the F1-F7, try not to fall asleep way of doing missions.
1. mediums vs cruisers = fail
2. flat out false. plenty of missions can push a standard tank over the line when you take one mid out of the equation. even w/o full room aggro (the assault, mordus anything, the larger angel missions etc etc)
3. so your comments only apply to the super rich. ok to recognize they intentionally screwed over the average joe shmoe
4. fair enough. ppl expecting to still play the game somewhat similar to how they have been playing it the past few years? fair complaint as well.
5. i think the very idea of needing to pay attention to spawns/triggers and damage types is good enough dont you? or should every mission be a gladiatorial event testing your capabilities to the brink? i think there are many false assumptions to the ease and skill required of a lot of missions.
oh, and obligatory 'fit a TP, screw caldari, caldari suck, thats what you get for crying bout nanos rabblerabblerabble!!'
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GO MaZ
The Illuminati.
Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 04:41:00 -
[169]
Originally by: Pr1ncess Alia
1. mediums vs cruisers = fail
Just a quick one I dunno if you've tested them after the patch but they're ****ing **** vs. cruisers and above
---
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Nameless Soldier
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 04:41:00 -
[170]
Originally by: Aeo IV
CCP really needs to stop listening to goddamn whiny pvpers out there, because it's a PVEers who are paying a greater percentile of the total income from this game, not the average PVPer. I'm not suggesting that CCP should carter to the PVEer at the expense of the PVPer, but CCP really shouldn't be catering to the PVPer at the expense of the PVEer.
Here's a really big tip: No REAL PvPers were leading the charge on the nano nerf. Wannabe PvPers and poseurs, yes they whined and cried their littles eyes out. The REAL PvPers, though they agreed that some of the nano setups were way out of hand and needed to be tweaked, also knew how to easily counter and handle nanos.
To paraphrase from a middling movie: "After the first half hour if you haven't spotted the sucker, then YOU are the sucker."
If you didn't know how to counter, deal with and/or kill nanos before this patch then guess what, you weren't a real PvPer anyways. |
Khamal Jolstien
Caldari
Product Number 3
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 04:43:00 -
[171]
Originally by: Nameless Soldier
Originally by: Aeo IV
CCP really needs to stop listening to goddamn whiny pvpers out there, because it's a PVEers who are paying a greater percentile of the total income from this game, not the average PVPer. I'm not suggesting that CCP should carter to the PVEer at the expense of the PVPer, but CCP really shouldn't be catering to the PVPer at the expense of the PVEer.
Here's a really big tip: No REAL PvPers were leading the charge on the nano nerf. Wannabe PvPers and poseurs, yes they whined and cried their littles eyes out. The REAL PvPers, though they agreed that some of the nano setups were way out of hand and needed to be tweaked, also knew how to easily counter and handle nanos.
To paraphrase from a middling movie: "After the first half hour if you haven't spotted the sucker, then YOU are the sucker."
If you didn't know how to counter, deal with and/or kill nanos before this patch then guess what, you weren't a real PvPer anyways.
Using broken mechanics, does not a PVPer make. Unfortunately, CCP broke the rest of the game's mechanics. Oops.
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Malcanis
RuffRyders
Eradication Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 04:46:00 -
[172]
Originally by: Aeo IV
CCP really needs to stop listening to goddamn whiny pvpers out there,
Quoted for extreme irony.
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Szent AdamKiraly
Reikoku
Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 04:47:00 -
[173]
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Aeo IV
CCP really needs to stop listening to goddamn whiny pvpers out there,
Quoted for extreme irony.
ooo quotin dis.
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Thorian Baalnorn
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 04:49:00 -
[174]
Originally by: GO MaZ
Originally by: Pr1ncess Alia
Joe Anyone expecting to go out there in a t1 raven will be having a rough time of it.
Joe anyone should train some more skills or stick to doing level 3's until he has enough SP to use missiles properly (they still work surprisingly!)
I heard this same arguement with T2 mods on a Raven." you shouldnt fly a raven until you can fit all T2 mods on it." Have anyone of you even flown a raven? I can fly and tank in a raven perfectly ... well could on level 4s with t1 mods.
Arguements on " you should fly a more expansive ship" are ridiculous at best in missioning. spending more money isnt always the solution to doing better. I shouldnt need a CNR or Golem to tank a level 4 mission.
Not only that but the fact is we are talking about missle damage. their are many level 4 npc ships that require a decent DPS to overcome their tank.
A golem may be a better tank and better for mission running but by no means necessary. Your taking away alot of peoples income( level 3s dont pay crap and personally im in no hurry to train for a golem just so i can make decent cash on a mission. it would take me 25 plus missions just to make the cost back. ) by making it hard for them to complete missions. lower income from mission runners means less money going into the market which means ... well take a look at the US economy.
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Nameless Soldier
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 04:51:00 -
[175]
Originally by: Khamal Jolstien
Originally by: Nameless Soldier
Originally by: Aeo IV
CCP really needs to stop listening to goddamn whiny pvpers out there, because it's a PVEers who are paying a greater percentile of the total income from this game, not the average PVPer. I'm not suggesting that CCP should carter to the PVEer at the expense of the PVPer, but CCP really shouldn't be catering to the PVPer at the expense of the PVEer.
Here's a really big tip: No REAL PvPers were leading the charge on the nano nerf. Wannabe PvPers and poseurs, yes they whined and cried their littles eyes out. The REAL PvPers, though they agreed that some of the nano setups were way out of hand and needed to be tweaked, also knew how to easily counter and handle nanos.
To paraphrase from a middling movie: "After the first half hour if you haven't spotted the sucker, then YOU are the sucker."
If you didn't know how to counter, deal with and/or kill nanos before this patch then guess what, you weren't a real PvPer anyways.
Using broken mechanics, does not a PVPer make. Unfortunately, CCP broke the rest of the game's mechanics. Oops.
To paraphrase from a middling movie: "After the first half hour if you haven't spotted the sucker, then YOU are the sucker."
If you didn't know how to counter, deal with and/or kill nanos before this patch then guess what, you weren't a real PvPer anyways.
Sup sucker? |
Aeo IV
Amarr
Xomic OmniCorporation
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 04:51:00 -
[176]
Originally by: Nameless Soldier
Originally by: Aeo IV
CCP really needs to stop listening to goddamn whiny pvpers out there, because it's a PVEers who are paying a greater percentile of the total income from this game, not the average PVPer. I'm not suggesting that CCP should carter to the PVEer at the expense of the PVPer, but CCP really shouldn't be catering to the PVPer at the expense of the PVEer.
Here's a really big tip: No REAL PvPers were leading the charge on the nano nerf. Wannabe PvPers and poseurs, yes they whined and cried their littles eyes out. The REAL PvPers, though they agreed that some of the nano setups were way out of hand and needed to be tweaked, also knew how to easily counter and handle nanos.
To paraphrase from a middling movie: "After the first half hour if you haven't spotted the sucker, then YOU are the sucker."
If you didn't know how to counter, deal with and/or kill nanos before this patch then guess what, you weren't a real PvPer anyways.
Here's a bigger tip.
The whole "no true scotsman" is a logical fallacy. If they engage in PVP regularly, they're PVPers, even if the hard core "I have a 25 man fleet with someone specialized to handle anything anyone could throw at us" ***** and moan about how they're not.
And again, I don't care, all I know is somehow between Nanos broken, and Nanos fixed, someone broke my Raven. And my Abaddon. And my SB. And probably a good host of other things I haven't realized.
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Cpt Branko
Surge.
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 04:51:00 -
[177]
Originally by: Thorian Baalnorn
I heard this same arguement with T2 mods on a Raven." you shouldnt fly a raven until you can fit all T2 mods on it." Have anyone of you even flown a raven? I can fly and tank in a raven perfectly ... well could on level 4s with t1 mods.
Arguements on " you should fly a more expansive ship" are ridiculous at best in missioning. spending more money isnt always the solution to doing better. I shouldnt need a CNR or Golem to tank a level 4 mission.
But CCP decided to nerf solo PVP, so why not nerf solo L4 farming too?
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Szent AdamKiraly
Reikoku
Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 04:53:00 -
[178]
I'd love to say nanoes were never broken, it was just the players but i would probably get ****d
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Spiritsister Ayala
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 04:53:00 -
[179]
Guys, guys, guys... stop whining...missiles are just perfect now.
I have just seen my cruise missiles hit a BS npc for 22! damage... UBER, isnt it?
Wait, here is more: a HAC npc tanked 26 volley of cruise missiles. - These guys were 6 volley before the "expansion".
So yes, these are the facts that prove missiles are working perfectly now.
BTW: all you guys saying "adapt or die", "fit TP", "now all caldari got what he deserves" "train more" now can see the actual difference between how it was and how it is now. you might get some idea why we missile users dont like this aspect of the "expansion"
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Khamal Jolstien
Caldari
Product Number 3
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 04:55:00 -
[180]
Originally by: Aeo IV
Originally by: Nameless Soldier
Originally by: Aeo IV
CCP really needs to stop listening to goddamn whiny pvpers out there, because it's a PVEers who are paying a greater percentile of the total income from this game, not the average PVPer. I'm not suggesting that CCP should carter to the PVEer at the expense of the PVPer, but CCP really shouldn't be catering to the PVPer at the expense of the PVEer.
Here's a really big tip: No REAL PvPers were leading the charge on the nano nerf. Wannabe PvPers and poseurs, yes they whined and cried their littles eyes out. The REAL PvPers, though they agreed that some of the nano setups were way out of hand and needed to be tweaked, also knew how to easily counter and handle nanos.
To paraphrase from a middling movie: "After the first half hour if you haven't spotted the sucker, then YOU are the sucker."
If you didn't know how to counter, deal with and/or kill nanos before this patch then guess what, you weren't a real PvPer anyways.
Here's a bigger tip.
The whole "no true scotsman" is a logical fallacy. If they engage in PVP regularly, they're PVPers, even if the hard core "I have a 25 man fleet with someone specialized to handle anything anyone could throw at us" ***** and moan about how they're not.
And again, I don't care, all I know is somehow between Nanos broken, and Nanos fixed, someone broke my Raven. And my Abaddon. And my SB. And probably a good host of other things I haven't realized.
Another good point that many people have been missing.
They fixed nanos with a sledge hammer, and the missile users are the collateral damage.
Also, for the next troll, just b ecause I use Missiles does not mean I'm a carebear.
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Pr1ncess Alia
Caldari
Perkone
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 04:56:00 -
[181]
Originally by: Nameless Soldier
To paraphrase from a middling movie: "After the first half hour if you haven't spotted the sucker, then YOU are the sucker."
If you didn't know how to counter, deal with and/or kill nanos before this patch then guess what, you weren't a real PvPer anyways.
Sup sucker?
could you use that quote in another post again. i think it really helps get your point across.
you could just put it in there as your sig and avoid having to type any reply at all.
i'm not sure what the point is your trying to get across. a pvper isn't a pvper if he is dumb, but is actually a pve'er by default? thats kinda how i read that first response.
the second response is equally as fail. he suggests just because someone is really fast they aren't a good pvper. you say if they cant counter a fast ship they are fail. you guys are each discussing separate things.
i think if you want to be accurate, just say there are 2 elements
#1 - dumb pvpers cried and got teh nano nerf done
#2 - ccp saw an oppurtunity to nerf 90% of missioners / increase grind in the same swing
i dont think there is really much of a correlation between pve'ers and the nanonerf.
i also think your poasting is terrible and poorly thought out
|
Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 04:57:00 -
[182]
Originally by: Cpt Branko
Get a clue. The missile damage formula has been found and posted (and yes, you need to web targets to do full DPS, but target painting also works depending on target size as large sig now counteracts targets outrunning explosion velocity). You just haven't been paying attention and were going 'lol, nano whiners' when people said 'SISI sucks'. Well, enjoy.
Have fun with it now.
LOL so true... :)))
SKUNK
Originally by: CCP Navigator
People who think I am joking or talking big are going to understand very quickly that there will be order
|
Vikarion
Caldari
White Rose Society
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 04:58:00 -
[183]
Edited by: Vikarion on 12/11/2008 04:59:34
Originally by: Aeo IV
And again, I don't care, all I know is somehow between Nanos broken, and Nanos fixed, someone broke my Raven. And my Abaddon. And my SB. And probably a good host of other things I haven't realized.
This. THISTHISTHISTHISTHIS.
Why should everything I enjoy flying be penalized because I didn't pay much attention to what other players were politicking about? Oh, right, because CCP uses a sledgehammer to swat gnats.
|
Khamal Jolstien
Caldari
Product Number 3
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 05:00:00 -
[184]
Originally by: Le Skunk
Originally by: Cpt Branko
Get a clue. The missile damage formula has been found and posted (and yes, you need to web targets to do full DPS, but target painting also works depending on target size as large sig now counteracts targets outrunning explosion velocity). You just haven't been paying attention and were going 'lol, nano whiners' when people said 'SISI sucks'. Well, enjoy.
Have fun with it now.
LOL so true... :)))
SKUNK
Yes. It's also true that players feel they shouldnt pay for the right to do QA's job on SiSi just so they'll have a working game.
QA should have done their job, balancing should have done their job. They failed.
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Nameless Soldier
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 05:00:00 -
[185]
Cry more please. Delicious tears. |
Szent AdamKiraly
Reikoku
Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 05:00:00 -
[186]
Flying nanoes was actually rather hard and required a modi****of skill at times when coupled with lag.
Just sayin.
|
Vikarion
Caldari
White Rose Society
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 05:02:00 -
[187]
Originally by: Khamal Jolstien
Yes. It's also true that players feel they shouldnt pay for the right to do QA's job on SiSi just so they'll have a working game.
QA should have done their job, balancing should have done their job. They failed.
Come to think of it, they seem to fail a rather large percentage of the time.
See, here I understood the Nano-nerf to be a mild scaling-down of MWD speeds and snake bonuses. Somehow that morphed into a draconian campaign against all speed mods, battleship tracking, drones, and missiles.
I think I can be forgiven for being unpleasantly surprised.
|
Anig Browl
Caldari
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 05:02:00 -
[188]
Originally by: Miss Marketing
So carebears was nerfing speed ships worth you ability to make money easily?
It's not that bad...(level 4s in a Raven with t1 weapons)...somewhat slower, maybe 10%? Salvaging was sorta tedious since the Raven now flies about 120m/s rather than 140m/s. DPS hit wasn't as bad as I expected really, though I definitely needed to use more ammo.
Not that I was complaining about speed/dps ratios to begin with. It does make me want to bring along someone to help out more often though.
|
GO MaZ
The Illuminati.
Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 05:03:00 -
[189]
Originally by: Szent AdamKiraly
Flying nanoes was actually rather hard and required a modi****of skill at times when coupled with lag.
Just sayin.
Stupid bob, nano***s are all noskill pvpers who fit their ships to do one thing, run away when they get shot at
---
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Anig Browl
Caldari
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 05:03:00 -
[190]
Originally by: Demonic Sentiment
lol i like it... but how are cruise missiles hitting cruisers now.. am i not gonna see the single volley cruisers anymore : (
Noticeably slower, but not crushingly so.
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Khamal Jolstien
Caldari
Product Number 3
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 05:04:00 -
[191]
Originally by: Anig Browl
Originally by: Demonic Sentiment
lol i like it... but how are cruise missiles hitting cruisers now.. am i not gonna see the single volley cruisers anymore : (
Noticeably slower, but not crushingly so.
A bit more than noticeably friend.
|
Mihali
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 05:05:00 -
[192]
Originally by: GO MaZ
Originally by: Szent AdamKiraly
Flying nanoes was actually rather hard and required a modi****of skill at times when coupled with lag.
Just sayin.
Stupid PL, nano***s are all noskill pvpers who fit their ships to do one thing, run away when they get shot at
Fixed for ya
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Szent AdamKiraly
Reikoku
Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 05:05:00 -
[193]
Originally by: GO MaZ
Originally by: Szent AdamKiraly
Flying nanoes was actually rather hard and required a modi****of skill at times when coupled with lag.
Just sayin.
Stupid bob, nano***s are all noskill pvpers who fit their ships to do one thing, run away when they get shot at
Fuk Maz of course, please beat me for ever suggesting such a thing 
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GO MaZ
The Illuminati.
Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 05:07:00 -
[194]
Originally by: Vikarion
Originally by: Khamal Jolstien
Yes. It's also true that players feel they shouldnt pay for the right to do QA's job on SiSi just so they'll have a working game.
QA should have done their job, balancing should have done their job. They failed.
Come to think of it, they seem to fail a rather large percentage of the time.
See, here I understood the Nano-nerf to be a mild scaling-down of MWD speeds and snake bonuses. Somehow that morphed into a draconian campaign against all speed mods, battleship tracking, drones, and missiles.
I think I can be forgiven for being unpleasantly surprised.
It wasn't a nano nerf, it was a speed re-adjustment, and along with that comes changes to everything affected by speed changes which INCLUDES missile damage and gun / drone tracking.
I have to say I'm pleasantly surprised by CCP this time, viva la Quantum Rise!
---
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Corwain
Gallente
Aliastra
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 05:07:00 -
[195]
Corwain reporting in! Everything seems to be working adequately. Perhaps a few more missiles need to be slung towards cruiser hulls and time to kill a frigate with battleship class missiles went from "forever" to "infinity" but drones seem to still be a flash with good done skills (and I've got like 10mil sp in drones, so...no problems there!)
I'm almost done with Silence the Informant lvl4 now.
--
Distortion| Distortion 2 Preview |
Anig Browl
Caldari
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 05:08:00 -
[196]
Originally by: Megan Maynard
No I understand, the caldari, in their most primeval form must whine in order to sustain their "lifeforce". With out a way to get rid of their inner whine they will die a slow painful death.
Well it stops us falling victim to the Jove disease. If the Jove had had online forums they'd still be a power to be reckoned with.
Really, I don't mind too much, it's not as bad as I thought it would be. Does make me want to improve my weak gunnery skills and fly a Rokh more often than just the Raven.
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Dracborne
H A V O C
Triumvirate.
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 05:20:00 -
[197]
I just finished up a Level 4 Guristas Extravaganza with an alt in about 5-10mins longer than normal. Once I started using light drones on the frigs instead of mediums the pace picked up. Mediums really do chew through cruiser/battlecruiser sized npc's but the lights are now needed on the frigs. I run these missions in a T2 raven, no faction, nothing fancy. The only thing I did notice is that I used all 3k of the wrath cruise missiles i brought along. First time going home with empty launchers after an Extravaganza.
The minmatar ships I fly for pvp on the other got the royal shaft....guess it's time to train Amarr.
-----------------------------------
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Haakelen
Gallente
Fire Mandrill
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 05:31:00 -
[198]
Originally by: Dracborne
I just finished up a Level 4 Guristas Extravaganza with an alt in about 5-10mins longer than normal. Once I started using light drones on the frigs instead of mediums the pace picked up. Mediums really do chew through cruiser/battlecruiser sized npc's but the lights are now needed on the frigs. I run these missions in a T2 raven, no faction, nothing fancy. The only thing I did notice is that I used all 3k of the wrath cruise missiles i brought along. First time going home with empty launchers after an Extravaganza.
The minmatar ships I fly for pvp on the other got the royal shaft....guess it's time to train Amarr.
This. Having no problems with my Raven or CNR here, methinks people are overreacting.
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Kylar Renpurs
Dusk Blade
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 05:37:00 -
[199]
I saw this before in reply to my last statement,
Quote:
My Golem is hitting a frig for 30 dmg and that is with max cruise skils and 5 hardwire 5% missile implants and faction missiles and the frig is armor rapping faster then i can shoot in my Golem i cant hit **** .
We need a fix lol
You shoot at frigates? God gave you drones for a reason.
If not being able to swat frigates is your concern, remember your raven has a drone bay for a reason.
Cruise missiles are anti cruiser, and they still seem to be. And torps are stil king of knocking BS down.
Disclaimer for this is I've *always* fitted a target painter. It's your missile's best friend. If you don't fit one, it's like going out without tracking computers on a turret boat.
Improve Market Competition! |
Pesky LaRue
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 05:42:00 -
[200]
Originally by: Haakelen
Originally by: Dracborne
I just finished up a Level 4 Guristas Extravaganza with an alt in about 5-10mins longer than normal. Once I started using light drones on the frigs instead of mediums the pace picked up. Mediums really do chew through cruiser/battlecruiser sized npc's but the lights are now needed on the frigs. I run these missions in a T2 raven, no faction, nothing fancy. The only thing I did notice is that I used all 3k of the wrath cruise missiles i brought along. First time going home with empty launchers after an Extravaganza.
The minmatar ships I fly for pvp on the other got the royal shaft....guess it's time to train Amarr.
This. Having no problems with my Raven or CNR here, methinks people are overreacting.
gamers?
overreacting?
on the EVE forums?
man, anyone would think it was a patch day or something
++ ++ ++ ++ ++ ++ ++
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Blastil
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 05:44:00 -
[201]
CCP has finally done it right! Now Caldari are on par with the rest of us when it comes to PVP, and PVE.
hey, atleast you still have the ONLY VIABLE FORM OF COMBAT EWAR. oh and lets not forget RIDICULOUS TANKS. the ability to perma run PVP setups is just plain offensive.
To the Stealth bombers. You know, the subtle DROP IN BOMB PRICES, + the LACK OF USE A CRUISE MISSLE BOMBER DOES, kind of HINTS at SOMETHING, If you get my drift. *COUGH* USE BOMBS *COUGH, COUGH*
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Khamal Jolstien
Caldari
Product Number 3
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 05:51:00 -
[202]
Originally by: Blastil
CCP has finally done it right! Now Caldari are on par with the rest of us when it comes to PVP, and PVE.
hey, atleast you still have the ONLY VIABLE FORM OF COMBAT EWAR. oh and lets not forget RIDICULOUS TANKS. the ability to perma run PVP setups is just plain offensive.
To the Stealth bombers. You know, the subtle DROP IN BOMB PRICES, + the LACK OF USE A CRUISE MISSLE BOMBER DOES, kind of HINTS at SOMETHING, If you get my drift. *COUGH* USE BOMBS *COUGH, COUGH*
Quoting for ignorance.
Ridic tanks were only achieved by sacrificing everything else.
Bombs still won't be used most likely.
The bombers purpose outside of bombs was to kill small targets, now it cant. So it's broken mmk?
Ewar ships tank like a wet paper bag, and there are plenty more coutners to them than nanos had.
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Aeo IV
Amarr
Xomic OmniCorporation
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 05:53:00 -
[203]
Originally by: Blastil
CCP has finally done it right! Now Caldari are on par with the rest of us when it comes to PVP, and PVE.
hey, atleast you still have the ONLY VIABLE FORM OF COMBAT EWAR. oh and lets not forget RIDICULOUS TANKS. the ability to perma run PVP setups is just plain offensive.
To the Stealth bombers. You know, the subtle DROP IN BOMB PRICES, + the LACK OF USE A CRUISE MISSLE BOMBER DOES, kind of HINTS at SOMETHING, If you get my drift. *COUGH* USE BOMBS *COUGH, COUGH*
You can't use bombs outside of nullsec.
So...
No.
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Lethos Aranis
THE BLACK RAGE
FOUNDATI0N
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 05:53:00 -
[204]
Edited by: Lethos Aranis on 12/11/2008 05:53:19
Interesting discussion (apart from the trolls )
Using TPs is a good idea, but there is one inherent flaw. Their range. Even at max skills their range isn't that amazing. Sure 100km might be good for some of you but not at times when you need to hit someone from far away.
To be honest, I can't comment too much until I've tested it myself and all this crap has died down a bit. Then we'll get some nice feedback.
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Terry Daktyl
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 05:53:00 -
[205]
I only bought a Raven last week, my patch is still applying, but if CCP have messed up my missiles, I'm gonna come back here and do some serious whining.
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Muad' Dib
Gallente
Beyond Divinity Inc
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 06:01:00 -
[206]
Edited by: Muad'' Dib on 12/11/2008 06:05:12
Originally by: Taius Pax
Edited by: Taius Pax on 12/11/2008 04:25:54
Originally by: Pedro Snachez
I fly a Kronos with pretty much maxed out gunnery and I needed to fit 2 Shadow Serp tracking comps and a domination web to be able to hit cruisers and frigs orbiting me. Let me just say that the whines about your max-dps Ravens/Golems having issues killing smaller ships warms me inside. Welcome to how the rest of the mission-running world does things. And by does things, I mean "uses their brains".
1. Use drones.
2. Use Target painters.
3. Go a little lighter on the unnecessary perma-run booster setups.
4. Profit.
Sorry you can't do missions on braindead afk mode anymore.
1. Use drones. Check!
2. Use Target painters. OH CRAP, RAVENS SHIELD TANK AND KIND OF NEED THAT MID SLOT
3. Go a little lighter on the unnecessary perma-run booster setups.
- OK Pedro, you just lost your cred. It's nearly impossible to perma tank an active shield set up and have it do any kind of damage. I've never known anyone who uses a perma tank Raven to mission.
Dual Pithi B-Type small sb's with 4 damage mods. Large t2 sb with 2-3 faction damage mods and hardwirings might be possible too. You were saying what ?
Also, CCP nerfed the solo bs, you thought you would get away mission runners ?
---
I smack just for myself.
[orange]Your signature is too large. Please resi |
Anig Browl
Caldari
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 06:10:00 -
[207]
Originally by: Malcanis
How will reducing riskless income raise prices? Mission runners produce ISK, not goods and materials.
Not so. Besides minerals or small items (depending on whether you melt or sell), a lot of named modules come from missions, and they are certainly the best source for salvage. I make part of my income by building rigs and accumulating the necessary salvage from ratting, plexes or PvP would take forever.
I don't keep careful track of the amounts, but probably every 7 or 8 missions I run provides enough for me to manufacture a couple of rigs and a cruiser for later sale. So I'd say it's quite likely you'll see the cost of salvage items and thus rigs rise somewhat, as well as certain named items.
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Malcanis
RuffRyders
Eradication Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 06:12:00 -
[208]
Originally by: Anig Browl
Originally by: Malcanis
How will reducing riskless income raise prices? Mission runners produce ISK, not goods and materials.
Not so. Besides minerals or small items (depending on whether you melt or sell), a lot of named modules come from missions, and they are certainly the best source for salvage. I make part of my income by building rigs and accumulating the necessary salvage from ratting, plexes or PvP would take forever.
I don't keep careful track of the amounts, but probably every 7 or 8 missions I run provides enough for me to manufacture a couple of rigs and a cruiser for later sale. So I'd say it's quite likely you'll see the cost of salvage items and thus rigs rise somewhat, as well as certain named items.
OK I'll rephrase: missioning produces far more ISK than the ISK value of items produced by missioning.
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Minsc
Gallente
A.W.M
Libertas Fidelitas
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 06:47:00 -
[209]
Originally by: Anig Browl
Originally by: Malcanis
How will reducing riskless income raise prices? Mission runners produce ISK, not goods and materials.
Not so. Besides minerals or small items (depending on whether you melt or sell), a lot of named modules come from missions, and they are certainly the best source for salvage. I make part of my income by building rigs and accumulating the necessary salvage from ratting, plexes or PvP would take forever.
I don't keep careful track of the amounts, but probably every 7 or 8 missions I run provides enough for me to manufacture a couple of rigs and a cruiser for later sale. So I'd say it's quite likely you'll see the cost of salvage items and thus rigs rise somewhat, as well as certain named items.
The salvage you get from a level 4 mission is a fraction of what you'd get from ratting in low-sec or 0.0 in the same amount of time.
Originally by: Sharkbait
please for the love of god read the dam stickies
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Khamal Jolstien
Caldari
Product Number 3
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 06:48:00 -
[210]
Originally by: Muad' Dib
Edited by: Muad'' Dib on 12/11/2008 06:05:12
Also, CCP nerfed the solo bs, you thought you would get away mission runners ?
Not all caldari are mission running carebears. Much more than mission runners are hurt from the patch.
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Diabolyc
Amarr
A.N.A.R.C.H.I.C.A
G00DFELLAS
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 06:53:00 -
[211]
Originally by: Pedro Snachez
2. Shield Tank. You seriously can't sacrifice 1 slot to use a target painter? I've flown a Raven and 95% of missions won't even come close to pushing your tank as long as you don't aggro the whole room. If you need to use all of your mids and rigs for tank then you're doing something wrong. This expansion seems to be all about sig radius, so why is it such blasphemy that you might need to sacrifice some tank for gank? Before this patch the Raven had it both ways: Uncontested lows for BCUs and mids for tank. Now you'll have to balance it.
good one
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Dirtee Girl
Omega Enterprises
0mega Factor
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 06:59:00 -
[212]
um wait there was this great quote that kept comming up what was it ....?
oh yeah adapt or die right ?
*
* |
Illwill Bill
Genos Occidere
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 07:01:00 -
[213]
Time for the mission runners to adapt or go cashless?
WoW in space. Yes, that's it!
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Wayson
Minmatar
Trans Nebula Inc.
FOUNDATI0N
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 07:11:00 -
[214]
I still do not know, and never will understand, why missiles had to be nerfed. Were they destroying PvP? Hahahahaha. Were they breaking PvE by making missions ridiculously easy? ... not really, as NPCs vomit defenders and there are swarms of small ships even in L4s. Blargh.
*continues training Gallente Frigate III, onward to the Dominix!*
___
Originally by: Tishlin Veredici
CONCORD is like the UN. Their entire job is to do nothing until its too late.
Originally by: Ranger 1
It finally happened, even lag has been nerfed.
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Anig Browl
Caldari
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 07:13:00 -
[215]
Originally by: Pr1ncess Alia
I'm not naive, i think they knew full well what they were doing. Either you are going to go back to level 3's or you are going to invest in their uninsurable golem isksink designed for one thing and one thing only, level 4 missions.
Grief, it's not that bad. Flying a Raven with just so-so skills (like 8m sp; t1 damage, t2 tank) it's just slower, not undoable. I took on the Vengeance mission right after the patch and though I only had time to do the first pocket today I got through it with my tank intact and made a quick 5m for 8 battleships and about 25 cruisers and frigs. This was using my existing cruise/medium drone fit rather than switching out for target painters or webbers.
In one of the harder missions I'd have to warp out more often and yeah it felt slow and rather boring as a result. My main gripe was that I went through quite a lot more ammo than I normally use...like it's taking me 100+ missiles to bring down a battleship that used to take about 60-70. Not so much 'oh noes I can't fly missions nao' as 'ugh, this is even more boring' (not least since my ship is also 15% slower).
I dunno, I'm going to try out some alternative fits, eg afterburner and torpedoes or something besides the obvious things like target painters. But level 3 vs. Golem are not the only choices. I'm less than thrilled since I haven't been doing level 4s all that long but it still pays a lot better than mining.
|
Thorian Baalnorn
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 07:28:00 -
[216]
Ok i just did an "easy" level 4 mission. My raven doesnt hit for crap( unless a BS is moving at less than 200m/s or less i get damage reduction on even those) it took two ravens 8 drones to do the mission. i actually used more missles on a 30k isk frigate than i did on a 500isk battle ship. a mission i normally run in 20 minutes in 2 ravens now takes 1 hour.
I also hear, in game, gunships are having problems hitting npc targets.
Given my recent experience i have concluded a couple of things.
1)missioning is now as profitable as mining in a rookie ship in hisec
2) i can effectively tank most battleships in a t1 frigate.
3) this is just a different version of nano***gery. the smaller the ship the better. 4 frigate can neutralize and kill all but a heavily tanked BS.
So tell me in what universe can a frigate easily tank a battleship?...ahhh the eve universe.
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Kusotarre
Cutting Edge Incorporated
RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 07:34:00 -
[217]
Originally by: Cpt Branko
Enjoy your nano nerf, Caldari pigs.
Am I too late to quote this?
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apock21
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 07:35:00 -
[218]
Originally by: Vikarion
Edited by: Vikarion on 12/11/2008 04:59:34
Originally by: Aeo IV
And again, I don't care, all I know is somehow between Nanos broken, and Nanos fixed, someone broke my Raven. And my Abaddon. And my SB. And probably a good host of other things I haven't realized.
This. THISTHISTHISTHISTHIS.
Why should everything I enjoy flying be penalized because I didn't pay much attention to what other players were politicking about? Oh, right, because CCP uses a sledgehammer to swat gnats.
THIS made me chuckle.
Completely correct, this patch was an absolute epic fail. I love how half the people screaming "adapt or die" dont use ravens.
Its funny to think that a ship type can influence the market, however i predict inflated prices on everything for the next couple of months, until they fix the patch or mission runners cross train a competent level 4 boat. I have no interest in saving up for a golem and spending 1bil plus to run missions, and I doubt very many other people will either.
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Thorian Baalnorn
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 07:37:00 -
[219]
Originally by: Anig Browl
Originally by: Pr1ncess Alia
I'm not naive, i think they knew full well what they were doing. Either you are going to go back to level 3's or you are going to invest in their uninsurable golem isksink designed for one thing and one thing only, level 4 missions.
Grief, it's not that bad. Flying a Raven with just so-so skills (like 8m sp; t1 damage, t2 tank) it's just slower, not undoable. I took on the Vengeance mission right after the patch and though I only had time to do the first pocket today I got through it with my tank intact and made a quick 5m for 8 battleships and about 25 cruisers and frigs. This was using my existing cruise/medium drone fit rather than switching out for target painters or webbers.
In one of the harder missions I'd have to warp out more often and yeah it felt slow and rather boring as a result. My main gripe was that I went through quite a lot more ammo than I normally use...like it's taking me 100+ missiles to bring down a battleship that used to take about 60-70. Not so much 'oh noes I can't fly missions nao' as 'ugh, this is even more boring' (not least since my ship is also 15% slower).
I dunno, I'm going to try out some alternative fits, eg afterburner and torpedoes or something besides the obvious things like target painters. But level 3 vs. Golem are not the only choices. I'm less than thrilled since I haven't been doing level 4s all that long but it still pays a lot better than mining.
I ve never had to warp out of a level 4( normally) and given the amount of time it takes to kill npcs now figure a reduction in bounty/per hour of about 50%( if your lucky) i tried a level 4 in a drake and my drake does better damage to all targets but battleships ... a drake out DPS a BS a frigate can outtank ( yay nano***gery) a BS using its speed and size... and all missle based ships basically becoming obsolete
|
Vikarion
Caldari
White Rose Society
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 07:43:00 -
[220]
Edited by: Vikarion on 12/11/2008 07:43:39
Originally by: apock21
Originally by: Vikarion
Edited by: Vikarion on 12/11/2008 04:59:34
Originally by: Aeo IV
And again, I don't care, all I know is somehow between Nanos broken, and Nanos fixed, someone broke my Raven. And my Abaddon. And my SB. And probably a good host of other things I haven't realized.
This. THISTHISTHISTHISTHIS.
Why should everything I enjoy flying be penalized because I didn't pay much attention to what other players were politicking about? Oh, right, because CCP uses a sledgehammer to swat gnats.
THIS made me chuckle.
Completely correct, this patch was an absolute epic fail. I love how half the people screaming "adapt or die" dont use ravens.
Its funny to think that a ship type can influence the market, however i predict inflated prices on everything for the next couple of months, until they fix the patch or mission runners cross train a competent level 4 boat. I have no interest in saving up for a golem and spending 1bil plus to run missions, and I doubt very many other people will either.
I'm not even majorly specced for Caldari. I fly Amarr. I'm unhappy about EVERY large ship getting nerfed. -400% close range tracking is bad. Very bad. That missiles are worth less than the pixels they use is also bad. But frankly, I'm more concerned about the fact that battleships have basically been turned into miniature capital ships - unable to hit anything, too slow to be dangerous, and generally about as fun to fly as scrubbing your dishes.
Apparently the only people who deserve to have fun in Eve are those who fly cruisers or smaller.
What really bugs me is that I keep almost quitting, then I find something fun to do, and then CCP nerfs it.
|
Anig Browl
Caldari
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 07:43:00 -
[221]
Originally by: Minsc
The salvage you get from a level 4 mission is a fraction of what you'd get from ratting in low-sec or 0.0 in the same amount of time.
Hmmm, I haven't been out to 0.0 for over a month, but I don't remember it being that profitable. Lowsec certainly isn't...though maybe it's different following the patch. My point is that in a mission you get maybe 15-20 battleships plus twice that number of smaller ships to pick over for salvage items...plus nobody's gonna pop you while you're running your salvager 
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Spyra Gryra
Cruoris Seraphim
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 07:44:00 -
[222]
Edited by: Spyra Gryra on 12/11/2008 07:43:59
hahaha adapt or die nubs
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Araxmas
The Blue Dagger Mercenery Agency
The Covenant Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 07:45:00 -
[223]
With exception to precisions my missiles pretty much work as usual.
Granted I took the time time to max my missile skills.
--------
derek |
Kerfira
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 07:55:00 -
[224]
It seems to me that CCP has made a pretty good first attempt at a game balance here.
1. Speed was nerfed, but speed-tanking is still useful.
2. Missiles was nerfed, but are still useful against bigger/mwd'ing ships.
3. Target painters are made relevant again.
4. AB's are made relevant again.
5. Mission income nerfed. Ravens were way too good at missioning.
There'll probably be tweaks needed down the line (hard not to when changes are this big), but a decently good first shot...
FYI, I fly a missile boat for my money-making (L4 high-sec)
I'm adapting
Seen from a game balance perspective, this is pretty damn good....
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
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Lucas Avignon
Avignon Associates Inc.
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 07:56:00 -
[225]
It sounds like CCP didn't nerf them enough, turret bs's can't hit frigates, why should cruise ravens?
Originally by: CCP Prism X
Yeah, and while we're at it we can create a controlled environment around account hacking and credit card fraud and all the other EULA breaches..
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Vikarion
Caldari
White Rose Society
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 07:58:00 -
[226]
Originally by: Lucas Avignon
It sounds like CCP didn't nerf them enough, turret bs's can't hit frigates, why should cruise ravens?
Maybe because it's the only thing that cruise missiles are good for?
Oops...were good for.
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Muad' Dib
Gallente
Beyond Divinity Inc
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 08:00:00 -
[227]
Originally by: Khamal Jolstien
Originally by: Muad' Dib
Edited by: Muad'' Dib on 12/11/2008 06:05:12
Also, CCP nerfed the solo bs, you thought you would get away mission runners ?
Not all caldari are mission running carebears. Much more than mission runners are hurt from the patch.
You are questioning my supposed misconceptions about all caldari being mission runners, when it says nothing in my paragraph about caldari, while you assume from the fact that we are talking about mission runners that we are talking about caldari mission runners.
Your post is very badly thought, the fact that i said 'the solo bs', could mean anything from mission runner to pvp-er, but i guess this never crossed your mind.
---
I smack just for myself.
[orange]Your signature is too large. Please resi |
Vikarion
Caldari
White Rose Society
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 08:01:00 -
[228]
Originally by: Muad' Dib
Your post is very badly thought, the fact that i said 'the solo bs', could mean anything from mission runner to pvp-er, but i guess this never crossed your mind.
Solo BS PvPers needed a nerf like low-sec needs a nerf.
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Amartius
ANZAC ALLIANCE
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 08:01:00 -
[229]
I did some research on explosion radius/damage with various T2 and faction Launchers. Checks it out.
Data
|
Viper ShizzIe
The Illuminati.
Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 08:06:00 -
[230]
I, for one, think they should have left missiles alone after slowing everything in EVE to a snail's pace. This would have made it much easier for Caldari ships to PvP, as they already had to give up their midslots for things like tackle and EWAR, making their tanks almost useless.
As for missions, a single ship should be able to run a level 4 mission in hisec nearly AFK, and there's no way that this concept should have ever been nerfed whatsoever. Having to take a long time, or god forbid use multiple ships to complete an NPC driven storyline goes against everything EVE is about. Changing missiles so they're ineffective at utterly destroying anything they're fired at is a downright slap in the face for the entire EVE community.
To conclude this message, I will be canceling 12 of my accounts and demanding reimbursement from CCP for the last five years of my life they've wasted while I've trained my characters to run missions nearly risk-free while doing other, more important things.
|
Kerfira
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 08:06:00 -
[231]
Originally by: Vikarion
Solo BS PvPers needed a nerf like low-sec needs a nerf.
As some CCP guy said a long time ago (Oveur or Wrangler I think):
"The battleship isn't, nor was it ever intended to be, a solo wtfpwnmobile!"
If smaller ships are relevant again, EVE will be a better game. Variety is good!
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
|
Khamal Jolstien
Caldari
Product Number 3
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 08:06:00 -
[232]
Originally by: Muad' Dib
Originally by: Khamal Jolstien
Originally by: Muad' Dib
Edited by: Muad'' Dib on 12/11/2008 06:05:12
Also, CCP nerfed the solo bs, you thought you would get away mission runners ?
Not all caldari are mission running carebears. Much more than mission runners are hurt from the patch.
You are questioning my supposed misconceptions about all caldari being mission runners, when it says nothing in my paragraph about caldari, while you assume from the fact that we are talking about mission runners that we are talking about caldari mission runners.
Your post is very badly thought, the fact that i said 'the solo bs', could mean anything from mission runner to pvp-er, but i guess this never crossed your mind.
Nope not at all.
Just pointing out that missiles are worthless in all aspects, not just limited to mission running. Aimed directly at your "thought you could get away" comment.
|
Lexx Phoebus
Caldari
Reikoku
Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 08:10:00 -
[233]
Originally by: Vikarion
Originally by: Muad' Dib
Your post is very badly thought, the fact that i said 'the solo bs', could mean anything from mission runner to pvp-er, but i guess this never crossed your mind.
Solo BS PvPers needed a nerf like low-sec needs a nerf.
solo bs pvpers need a nerf? My god you are stupid - do you have any idea how hard it is to solo and even break even these days? Especially in a BS.
|
Vikarion
Caldari
White Rose Society
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 08:14:00 -
[234]
Originally by: Lexx Phoebus
Originally by: Vikarion
Originally by: Muad' Dib
Your post is very badly thought, the fact that i said 'the solo bs', could mean anything from mission runner to pvp-er, but i guess this never crossed your mind.
Solo BS PvPers needed a nerf like low-sec needs a nerf.
solo bs pvpers need a nerf? My god you are stupid - do you have any idea how hard it is to solo and even break even these days? Especially in a BS.
I weep for the human race.
...
It's called sarcasm.
Low-sec badly needs a buff.
Solo-PvP needs a buff.
Neither needed a nerf.
|
Szent AdamKiraly
Reikoku
Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 08:15:00 -
[235]
Originally by: Vikarion
Originally by: Lexx Phoebus
Originally by: Vikarion
Originally by: Muad' Dib
Your post is very badly thought, the fact that i said 'the solo bs', could mean anything from mission runner to pvp-er, but i guess this never crossed your mind.
Solo BS PvPers needed a nerf like low-sec needs a nerf.
solo bs pvpers need a nerf? My god you are stupid - do you have any idea how hard it is to solo and even break even these days? Especially in a BS.
I weep for the human race.
...
It's called sarcasm.
Low-sec badly needs a buff.
Solo-PvP needs a buff.
Neither needed a nerf.
Thank god for that we are in agreement, i thought you were serious lol.
|
Vikarion
Caldari
White Rose Society
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 08:16:00 -
[236]
I guess there is such a thing as being too subtle. 
|
Thenoran
Caldari
Hegemony Enterprises
E L I T E Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 08:17:00 -
[237]
Originally by: Cpt Branko
Originally by: Taius Pax
I picked up Blockade lvl 4, and I've been shooting non stop for 30 minutes and I'm barely through the first spawn. 7X CN Launchers with 3X CN BCU. What kind of bull**** is this?
Enjoy your nano nerf, Caldari pigs.
*hugs his Ferox and Rokh*
Okay so maybe Caldari gunboats didn't get a buff, but atleast missiles have downsides now in missions aside from travel time
------------------------
Ship Yield Calc
Improve Mining |
Malcanis
RuffRyders
Eradication Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 08:18:00 -
[238]
Originally by: Dirtee Girl
um wait there was this great quote that kept comming up what was it ....?
oh yeah adapt or die right ?
I seem to remember a few mission runners saying something along those lines on this forum yes...
|
Vikarion
Caldari
White Rose Society
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 08:20:00 -
[239]
Edited by: Vikarion on 12/11/2008 08:20:18
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Dirtee Girl
um wait there was this great quote that kept comming up what was it ....?
oh yeah adapt or die right ?
I seem to remember a few mission runners saying something along those lines on this forum yes...
It's relatively easy for the mission-runners to adapt to this.
The effect it is going to have on PvP and PvPing BS pilots will be pretty nasty.
Oh, and I don't see Caldari PvP pilots being really happy either.
|
Taradis
Amarr
The Imperial Assassins
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 08:26:00 -
[240]
Originally by: Lochmar Fiendhiem
Originally by: Bohoba
hehe charicter Bohoba can be recycled in 10 hours 55 min
another 70mill sp char bites the dust...
training an ammar noob now
thats just ******ed.
so in two months when you've trained all your learning skills for your "amarr noob" you'll be able to run lvl 1 missions.
Or you could train amarr cruiser 5 and medium beam/pulse laser to 5 for an amarr hac and lasers.
He won't do it cuz he's too ****ing stupid to go that route why not just buy another ebay'd toon. If i was in that position I would cross train cuz their's no point in losin a 70mil sp toon imo
|
Malcanis
RuffRyders
Eradication Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 08:29:00 -
[241]
Edited by: Malcanis on 12/11/2008 08:29:30
Originally by: Vikarion
Edited by: Vikarion on 12/11/2008 08:20:18
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Dirtee Girl
um wait there was this great quote that kept comming up what was it ....?
oh yeah adapt or die right ?
I seem to remember a few mission runners saying something along those lines on this forum yes...
It's relatively easy for the mission-runners to adapt to this.
Hey, it would have been even easier for these people to have warped to 0Km but they still whined and cried and wailed for suicide gank nerfs. Asking them to fit a module as well - that's way over the line, mister. You're insane, why would anyone do that when they can just cancel their account?
|
Vikarion
Caldari
White Rose Society
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 08:33:00 -
[242]
Originally by: Malcanis
Hey, it would have been even easier for these people to have warped to 0Km but they still whined and cried and wailed for suicide gank nerfs. Asking them to fit a module as well - that's way over the line, mister. You're insane, why would anyone do that when they can just cancel their account?
Beats me. 
Still, I think in the whining over missiles, everyone is missing the fact that CCP JUST PUT ANOTHER NAIL IN THE COFFIN OF SOLO PVP!
Oh, and that they effectively ruined another weapons system, nerfed a whole class of ships, and etc. All because HACs were too fast.
|
Oftherocks
Caldari
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 08:36:00 -
[243]
Guided missiles have been totally nerfed to uselessness.
Yes, people should have figured this out before the patch was deployed. But then again customers aren't required to help test new things and help with game balancing; this is a developers job.
To those who don't see this as a major over nerf either, a.) you are a non-missile user suffering from a major case of schadenfreude or, b.) you are totally delusional and or misinformed.
The explosion velocity on a small missile has gone from 1750 m/sec to 170 m/sec, a decrease of 90.3%.
The explosion velocity of heavy missiles has gone from 750 m/sec to 81 m/sec, a decrease of 89.2%.
The explosion velocity of cruise missiles has gone from 500 m/sec to 69 m/sec, a decrease of 86.2%.
With these changes you don't need any speed mods at all (not even an ab) to speed tank against a missile ship.
To add insult to injury they even reduced the Golems bonus of 10% increased explosion velocity to 5%, even though the Golems bonuses are supposed to be designed to allow it to easily destroy smaller ships.
So yeah, missile users are screwed.... time to train rails or lasers.
|
Lady Aja
Caldari
Ore Mongers
Black Hand.
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 08:37:00 -
[244]
Originally by: Taius Pax
I picked up Blockade lvl 4, and I've been shooting non stop for 30 minutes and I'm barely through the first spawn. 7X CN Launchers with 3X CN BCU. What kind of bull**** is this?
CCP adapted instead of emoragequiting...
Many kudos to Foulque for my sig.. |
Barton Foley
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 08:38:00 -
[245]
Originally by: Lady Aja
Originally by: Taius Pax
I picked up Blockade lvl 4, and I've been shooting non stop for 30 minutes and I'm barely through the first spawn. 7X CN Launchers with 3X CN BCU. What kind of bull**** is this?
CCP adapted instead of emoragequiting...
I lol'd.
|
Raguun
LDK
Kraftwerk.
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 08:39:00 -
[246]
Is this trait or some Role playing of Caldari ship pilots? Whine all the time?
Now you face same problems as all other BS users had to face for years.
|
Tippia
Caldari
School of Applied Knowledge
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 08:39:00 -
[247]
Originally by: Wayson
I still do not know, and never will understand, why missiles had to be nerfed. Were they destroying PvP? Hahahahaha. Were they breaking PvE by making missions ridiculously easy? ... not really, as NPCs vomit defenders and there are swarms of small ships even in L4s. Blargh.
They would have broken the tweaked role for small, AB-using ships. This brings missiles in line with turret guns against small fast targets. Quote:
*continues training Gallente Frigate III, onward to the Dominix!*
May I suggest stopping at Gallente cruisers and BCs — they eat L4s for breakfast, just like before
|
Vikarion
Caldari
White Rose Society
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 08:41:00 -
[248]
Originally by: Oftherocks
So yeah, missile users are screwed.... time to train rails or lasers.
Now that webs have been nerfed, you'll be lucky to hit a battleship with guns.
|
GeneralMartok
the united
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 08:43:00 -
[249]
why can't raven pilots use TP drones and save that mid slot 
Hab SoSlI' Quch! |
Oftherocks
Caldari
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 08:43:00 -
[250]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Wayson
I still do not know, and never will understand, why missiles had to be nerfed. Were they destroying PvP? Hahahahaha. Were they breaking PvE by making missions ridiculously easy? ... not really, as NPCs vomit defenders and there are swarms of small ships even in L4s. Blargh.
They would have broken the tweaked role for small, AB-using ships. This brings missiles in line with turret guns against small fast targets
No, it doesn't, not even close.
Originally by: Raguun
Is this trait or some Role playing of Caldari ship pilots? Whine all the time?
Now you face same problems as all other BS users had to face for years.
You haven't even looked at the numbers have you?
|
Hyveres
Caldari
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 08:45:00 -
[251]
Originally by: Blastil
CCP has finally done it right! Now Caldari are on par with the rest of us when it comes to PVP, and PVE.
hey, atleast you still have the ONLY VIABLE FORM OF COMBAT EWAR. oh and lets not forget RIDICULOUS TANKS. the ability to perma run PVP setups is just plain offensive.
To the Stealth bombers. You know, the subtle DROP IN BOMB PRICES, + the LACK OF USE A CRUISE MISSLE BOMBER DOES, kind of HINTS at SOMETHING, If you get my drift. *COUGH* USE BOMBS *COUGH, COUGH*
So what ship do we have that can one volley cruisers or frigs at range , and do 1k+ dps vs battleships?
A normal CNR setup assuming maxed out missile and drone skills is just under 800 dps. Unless you are overloading or using faction ammo ofcourse. This assumes a webbed & painted battleship.
|
Lethos Aranis
THE BLACK RAGE
FOUNDATI0N
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 08:46:00 -
[252]
Originally by: Raguun
Is this trait or some Role playing of Caldari ship pilots? Whine all the time?
Now you face same problems as all other BS users had to face for years.
I don't get this attitude. How is something that nerfs some people yet benefits no one a funny thing? Fact is that this patch has made the game worse for pretty much everyone. The game suffers because of this, nano nerf and God knows what else. Instead of tweaking speed and tweaking missiles, they have used the sledge hammer and bye bye PvP & PvE, read: Bye bye Eve.
Adapt or die is a good motto, and no doubt most of us will be doing it but it's no excuse for what is essentially a bad patch, benefiting no one.
Oh and another thing, so we fly Caldari. What's your point? Ever thought about the fact that we also have other characters of different races so know all too well what the other problems are?
|
Raguun
LDK
Kraftwerk.
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 08:49:00 -
[253]
Edited by: Raguun on 12/11/2008 08:53:05
Originally by: Oftherocks
Originally by: Raguun
Is this trait or some Role playing of Caldari ship pilots? Whine all the time?
Now you face same problems as all other BS users had to face for years.
You haven't even looked at the numbers have you?
What numbers? What 90% of mission runners are Caldari Raven pilots. This contingent whined the most while not being able to hit nanoes with their uber PVE ratting Ravens (PVE ship in pvp, lol). Asked for nerf. Here it is ppl!! Now you whine for consequence. What you expected CCP will do? Make your Ravens uber in pvp too, so noone would fly other races at all? They balanced things in the way you asked.
Edit: So what Raven is no doubt best PVE ship is not outbalanced? And if you are stupid to take other race you had to face drawbacks in mission running?
|
Pesadel0
Minmatar
Vagabundos
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 08:51:00 -
[254]
Originally by: Cpt Branko
Originally by: Taius Pax
I picked up Blockade lvl 4, and I've been shooting non stop for 30 minutes and I'm barely through the first spawn. 7X CN Launchers with 3X CN BCU. What kind of bull**** is this?
Enjoy your nano nerf, Caldari pigs.
I loled hard :)
|
viuva
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 08:55:00 -
[255]
vai mamar na quinta pata = pesa
|
Oftherocks
Caldari
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 08:57:00 -
[256]
Originally by: Raguun
Originally by: Oftherocks
Originally by: Raguun
Is this trait or some Role playing of Caldari ship pilots? Whine all the time?
Now you face same problems as all other BS users had to face for years.
You haven't even looked at the numbers have you?
What numbers? What 90% of mission runners are Caldari Raven pilots. This contingent whined the most while not being able to hit nanoes with their uber PVE ratting Ravens (PVE ship in pvp, lol). Asked for nerf. Here it is ppl!! Now you whine for consequence. What you expected CCP will do? Make your Ravens uber in pvp too, so noone would fly other races at all? They balanced things in the way you asked.
You are totally clueless.
This isn't about Ravens and PvE, this is about all missiles getting royally screwed.
Please, do some damn homework before you come in here spilling your ignorant views.
And by the way, I have never ever complained about nano's or asked for nano nerfs. I think the whole SpeedRebalance thing is awful.
|
Hyveres
Caldari
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 09:01:00 -
[257]
Edited by: Hyveres on 12/11/2008 09:01:51
Who cared about nano's anyway.
As proven by quite a few engagements all you needed to do was land a bit of tackle and the nanoships went poof. A good nanogang would ofcourse avoid engagements where that could happen but then no fight = no KM.
|
Chris Liath
Gallente
Red Dwarf Mining Corporation
space weaponry and trade
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 09:02:00 -
[258]
Originally by: Lethos Aranis
Originally by: Raguun
Is this trait or some Role playing of Caldari ship pilots? Whine all the time?
Now you face same problems as all other BS users had to face for years.
I don't get this attitude. How is something that nerfs some people yet benefits no one a funny thing? Fact is that this patch has made the game worse for pretty much everyone. The game suffers because of this, nano nerf and God knows what else. Instead of tweaking speed and tweaking missiles, they have used the sledge hammer and bye bye PvP & PvE, read: Bye bye Eve.
Adapt or die is a good motto, and no doubt most of us will be doing it but it's no excuse for what is essentially a bad patch, benefiting no one.
Oh and another thing, so we fly Caldari. What's your point? Ever thought about the fact that we also have other characters of different races so know all too well what the other problems are?
Nerf benefits no one? Made the game worse for everyone?
I love this patch. I welcome it with all my heart. I've been waiting ages for this patch, and I will enjoy your salty tears to the fullest.
Now there will be other ships to pvp in, other ships to pve in, and strategy and tactics will actually matter. Not just speed and missile damage.
Meh, you're caldari. You wouldn't understand.
"Oh dear," says God, "I hadn't thought of that," and promptly vanishes in a puff of logic. |
Tippia
Caldari
School of Applied Knowledge
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 09:03:00 -
[259]
Originally by: Oftherocks
Originally by: Tippia
They would have broken the tweaked role for small, AB-using ships. This brings missiles in line with turret guns against small fast targets
No, it doesn't, not even close.
Turrets = zero damage; missiles = zero damage— how is that "not even close"?
|
Hyveres
Caldari
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 09:05:00 -
[260]
Originally by: Chris Liath
Nerf benefits no one? Made the game worse for everyone?
I love this patch. I welcome it with all my heart. I've been waiting ages for this patch, and I will enjoy your salty tears to the fullest.
Now there will be other ships to pvp in, other ships to pve in, and strategy and tactics will actually matter. Not just speed and missile damage.
Meh, you're caldari. You wouldn't understand.
Tbh missiletactics in PvP has changed from , anti support to one option only.
Bring heavy tacklers & ewar , land 2-3 webs , and dualpaint target , let missiles rip it apart. Ofcourse a target sitting like that dies even faster to guns.
|
Oftherocks
Caldari
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 09:06:00 -
[261]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Oftherocks
Originally by: Tippia
They would have broken the tweaked role for small, AB-using ships. This brings missiles in line with turret guns against small fast targets
No, it doesn't, not even close.
Turrets = zero damage; missiles = zero damageù how is that "not even close"?
You aren't getting it. This isn't that Cruise missiles can't hit frigs for crap, it is that a BS with NO speed mods can now speed tank a cruise missile ship.
|
Berious
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 09:08:00 -
[262]
Originally by: Hyveres
Edited by: Hyveres on 12/11/2008 09:01:51
Who cared about nano's anyway.
As proven by quite a few engagements all you needed to do was land a bit of tackle and the nanoships went poof. A good nanogang would ofcourse avoid engagements where that could happen but then no fight = no KM.
Caldari Militia in their Drake blobs whined endlessly for a speed nerf. Even after various nano counters were explained they whined some more. That's why you see people who got nerfed even harder laughing at a missile changes.
|
Cat Molina
Minmatar
Psychotic Inc.
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 09:09:00 -
[263]
As an envoy of the Minmatar Republic, I have been commanded by my superiors to offer this message to the heads of the Caldari State:
"Welcome to our world."
|
Hyveres
Caldari
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 09:11:00 -
[264]
Originally by: Cat Molina
As an envoy of the Minmatar Republic, I have been commanded by my superiors to offer this message to the heads of the Caldari State:
"Welcome to our world."
Hmm never noticed the caldari BC or CS that could break 1k dps.
We wont be in that world untill we got one :)
|
Lethos Aranis
THE BLACK RAGE
FOUNDATI0N
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 09:11:00 -
[265]
Originally by: Lethos Aranis
Oh and another thing, so we fly Caldari. What's your point? Ever thought about the fact that we also have other characters of different races so know all too well what the other problems are?
Originally by: Chris Liath
Meh, you're caldari. You wouldn't understand.
Read again. This character is Caldari. The others are not
|
Stork DK
Minmatar
Synthetic Frontiers
Privateer Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 09:11:00 -
[266]
I love it how the carebears whined for a nerf to nanos and ended up getting hit by the rebounce of the bat
|
Tippia
Caldari
School of Applied Knowledge
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 09:14:00 -
[267]
Originally by: Oftherocks
You aren't getting it. This isn't that Cruise missiles can't hit frigs for crap, it is that a BS with NO speed mods can now speed tank a cruise missile ship.
No, that's not what this is about. Or, rather, if that's what you wanted to discuss, then maybe you shouldn't have answered my post. You see, I wrote: Originally by: Tippia
They would have broken the tweaked role for small, AB-using ships. This brings missiles in line with turret guns against small fast targets
Non-modded battleships are not "small, AB-using ships." Read before posting — tip of the day.
|
MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 09:15:00 -
[268]
Originally by: Oftherocks
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Oftherocks
Originally by: Tippia
They would have broken the tweaked role for small, AB-using ships. This brings missiles in line with turret guns against small fast targets
No, it doesn't, not even close.
Turrets = zero damage; missiles = zero damageù how is that "not even close"?
You aren't getting it. This isn't that Cruise missiles can't hit frigs for crap, it is that a BS with NO speed mods can now speed tank a cruise missile ship.
I agree with this.
I think the speed nerf and missle changes were needed, but not for class on class combat.
|
Szent AdamKiraly
Reikoku
Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 09:16:00 -
[269]
bleed carebears bleed mwuhahahhaah.
|
Terror Rising
Death Of Fallen Angels
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 09:17:00 -
[270]
Me strokes his maxed out Nighthawk ..
Hmm lovely ...
I think that Golem is going in storage for a while ..
|
FlameGlow
Legio Octae
Rebellion Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 09:18:00 -
[271]
Originally by: Stork DK
I love it how the carebears whined for a nerf to nanos and ended up getting hit by the rebounce of the bat
I'll be seeng you in your ECM whine topics, as ECMing is pretty much all the remaining options for caldari -speced ppl (well that or rail-sniping) now that anti-support and damage-dealing with missiles were screwed
_____________
I don't care what is nerfed, as long as it's not my "undock" button. |
Oftherocks
Caldari
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 09:18:00 -
[272]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Oftherocks
You aren't getting it. This isn't that Cruise missiles can't hit frigs for crap, it is that a BS with NO speed mods can now speed tank a cruise missile ship.
No, that's not what this is about. Or, rather, if that's what you wanted to discuss, then maybe you shouldn't have answered my post. You see, I wrote: Originally by: Tippia
They would have broken the tweaked role for small, AB-using ships. This brings missiles in line with turret guns against small fast targets
Non-modded battleships are not "small, AB-using ships." Read before posting ù tip of the day.
Here is how it is different. You can hit a ab using frig with small guns, small missiles won't do jack squat against the same target. So yeah, a BS can't take out a frig with ease, but it should be able to hit a BS for full damage, no?
|
Liberator 1
Gallente
Remnants of the Flame
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 09:20:00 -
[273]
A friend and I were shooting at each other this morning and we reached the conclusion that the adjustments to missiles and webs and speed have gone a bit too far. I think describing them as an "adjustment" is inaccurate, "major change" is more accurate. I've only been playing since January and given the nature of the game, I am deeply uncomfortable when the rules get changed like this.
How am I supposed to exploit the variety of ships and weapons if the skill training takes so long and is so expensive, only to have the goalposts moved?
I think it could have been more subtle.
-------------------------------------------
ôIf you are in a spaceship that is traveling at the speed of light, and you turn on the headlights, does anything happen?ö
------------------------- |
Whineroy
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 09:21:00 -
[274]
Originally by: Szent AdamKiraly
bleed carebears bleed mwuhahahhaah.
You know, losers who make fortunes ratting at 0.0 while their butt-buddies ensure that they have zero risk doing so shouldn't exactly talk about "carebears" unless they really want to show themselves to be the f-ing nerds they are.
|
Lethos Aranis
THE BLACK RAGE
FOUNDATI0N
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 09:22:00 -
[275]
Originally by: Whineroy
Originally by: Szent AdamKiraly
bleed carebears bleed mwuhahahhaah.
You know, losers who make fortunes ratting at 0.0 while their butt-buddies ensure that they have zero risk doing so shouldn't exactly talk about "carebears" unless they really want to show themselves to be the f-ing nerds they are.
Just leave him. He's by far the biggest Eve-O troll I've seen recently.
|
Raguun
LDK
Kraftwerk.
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 09:23:00 -
[276]
Originally by: Stork DK
I love it how the carebears whined for a nerf to nanos and ended up getting hit by the rebounce of the bat
Oh yeah I am too :) Missiles used to suck in pvp but dominated in PVE. Now they are balanced to suck in both, but less :D Just like guns. Ever tried to hit frigs whitch is disrupting, webbing you in belt? Even medium guns had problems with that. And if you were dumb to rat in hac you could actualy die NPC tackled :) Or ever chased belt rats with turret ship, while they run from you faster then you go? Not to mention missions. While ravens could just warp to belt sit aligned and wtfpwnd all around, kilometers away. Fair? Dont seams so.
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Hyveres
Caldari
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 09:27:00 -
[277]
Originally by: Raguun
Originally by: Stork DK
I love it how the carebears whined for a nerf to nanos and ended up getting hit by the rebounce of the bat
Oh yeah I am too :) Missiles used to suck in pvp but dominated in PVE. Now they are balanced to suck in both, but less :D Just like guns. Ever tried to hit frigs whitch is disrupting, webbing you in belt? Even medium guns had problems with that. And if you were dumb to rat in hac you could actualy die NPC tackled :) Or ever chased belt rats with turret ship, while they run from you faster then you go? Not to mention missions. While ravens could just warp to belt sit aligned and wtfpwnd all around, kilometers away. Fair? Dont seams so.
Ever seen how a good missionrunner in a turretboat handled stuff?
All about utilizing transversal and dropping your targets before they could close with you. Ofcourse that might be a tad complicated for someone who usually blobs their targets.
|
Chris Liath
Gallente
Red Dwarf Mining Corporation
space weaponry and trade
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 09:28:00 -
[278]
Edited by: Chris Liath on 12/11/2008 09:28:23
Originally by: Lethos Aranis
Originally by: Lethos Aranis
Oh and another thing, so we fly Caldari. What's your point? Ever thought about the fact that we also have other characters of different races so know all too well what the other problems are?
Originally by: Chris Liath
Meh, you're caldari. You wouldn't understand.
Read again. This character is Caldari. The others are not
And it was your character I referred to.
"Oh dear," says God, "I hadn't thought of that," and promptly vanishes in a puff of logic. |
Szent AdamKiraly
Reikoku
Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 09:36:00 -
[279]
Originally by: Lethos Aranis
Originally by: Whineroy
Originally by: Szent AdamKiraly
bleed carebears bleed mwuhahahhaah.
You know, losers who make fortunes ratting at 0.0 while their butt-buddies ensure that they have zero risk doing so shouldn't exactly talk about "carebears" unless they really want to show themselves to be the f-ing nerds they are.
Just leave him. He's by far the biggest Eve-O troll I've seen recently.
And you know, you should get a clue about how i make my ISK
Please, whine more it is healing the wounds left by the nano nerf.
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Pr1ncess Alia
Caldari
Perkone
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 09:37:00 -
[280]
Originally by: Szent AdamKiraly
Originally by: Lethos Aranis
Originally by: Whineroy
Originally by: Szent AdamKiraly
bleed carebears bleed mwuhahahhaah.
You know, losers who make fortunes ratting at 0.0 while their butt-buddies ensure that they have zero risk doing so shouldn't exactly talk about "carebears" unless they really want to show themselves to be the f-ing nerds they are.
Just leave him. He's by far the biggest Eve-O troll I've seen recently.
And you know, you should get a clue about how i make my ISK
Please, whine more it is healing the wounds left by the nano nerf.
let me guess, you get paid 10isk for every terrible troll post you make on the forums?
|
Raguun
LDK
Kraftwerk.
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 09:46:00 -
[281]
Originally by: Hyveres
Ever seen how a good missionrunner in a turretboat handled stuff?
All about utilizing transversal and dropping your targets before they could close with you. Ofcourse that might be a tad complicated for someone who usually blobs their targets.
So basicly you have to run all ways around in you turret ship, while Raven pilot can just mindless fly one direction killing all around? Good balance e?
Missiles - no tracking, long range, always hits for same damage.
Turrets - tracking problems, short range, hits for random damage.
Always thought what missile dmg should be raduced for such lucrative thing as "always hit for same dmg"
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Szent AdamKiraly
Reikoku
Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 09:49:00 -
[282]
Please, whine more it is healing the wounds left by the nano nerf.
let me guess, you get paid 10isk for every terrible troll post you make on the forums?
That's the funny part! It isn't a troll i am genuinly happy
|
Hyveres
Caldari
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 09:50:00 -
[283]
Originally by: Raguun
Originally by: Hyveres
Ever seen how a good missionrunner in a turretboat handled stuff?
All about utilizing transversal and dropping your targets before they could close with you. Ofcourse that might be a tad complicated for someone who usually blobs their targets.
So basicly you have to run all ways around in you turret ship, while Raven pilot can just mindless fly one direction killing all around? Good balance e?
Missiles - no tracking, long range, always hits for same damage.
Turrets - tracking problems, short range, hits for random damage.
Always thought what missile dmg should be raduced for such lucrative thing as "always hit for same dmg"
Well you do ignore that ravens had half the DPS of comparable turretships?
Ofcourse that lower dps isnt something that should be factored in when balancing from your point of view.
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C4LYP50
The Sky Is The Limit
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 09:52:00 -
[284]
Edited by: C4LYP50 on 12/11/2008 09:56:40
Originally by: Raguun
What numbers? What 90% of mission runners are Caldari Raven pilots. This contingent whined the most while not being able to hit nanoes with their uber PVE ratting Ravens (PVE ship in pvp, lol). Asked for nerf. Here it is ppl!! Now you whine for consequence. What you expected CCP will do? Make your Ravens uber in pvp too, so noone would fly other races at all? They balanced things in the way you asked.
Edit: So what Raven is no doubt best PVE ship is not outbalanced? And if you are stupid to take other race you had to face drawbacks in mission running?
This is an utter lie, and I call BS. Go back to the nano nerf thread and re read it (or maybe even read it for the first time!) No mission runner uses their moneymaker to pvp with. You said this in order to facilitate your second lie. Why on earth would a full time PVE pilot, who never uses, let alone SEES a nano'd ship, chime in begging for a nerf that has no effect on them? The people who complained about nanos being overpowered were their adverseries in low and nullsec. And only them.
Missiles aren't just worthless against nano's in PVP, they are pretty much the least preferred weapons system in the game, prepatch, which is why people tend to create Caldari mission runners, because that was the ONLY method of using missiles cost effectively for low skillpoints. And to get the bonuses to make that worthwhile, you had to go Caldari. A "hint" for people considering what they are gonna do at character creation, echoed a thousand times by people such as yourself.
I think you should maybe take a deep breath, think about what type of debater you want to be seen as, and reconsider your "arguement".
FYI, the nano storm hit right about the time I was training into interceptors, and for all the screaming on both sides, it never changed my training plan at all. I never took part in that discussion because I felt 1) I had already made up my mind to train up 'ceptors, and 2) I was in no position to take sides one way or the other, due to inexperience with what was being discussed. I think you'l find most "Carebear Caldari" agreed with me, a perusal over the nano thread(s) certainly seems to support this.
On Topic: Remember this, my brothers and sisters: We STILL have the best starting stats in the game, if missiles are nerfed, we are in the best position to retrain for something else. Rails are still a great option, and we do get ships for that. /pulls out Rokh-N-Roll, and heads for mission space!
Brunette By Birth...........Blonde By Nature.
------------------------------------------------
"Your suffering will be legendary, even in Hell."
"No tears, please; it's a waste of good suffering." |
Alex Harumichi
Gallente
Gradient
Electus Matari
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 09:57:00 -
[285]
Originally by: Hyveres
Well you do ignore that ravens had half the DPS of comparable turretships?
Absolute bull****.
A torp Raven does equal-or-better dps than a blaster Megathron, ffs, at vastly better ranges.
|
Raguun
LDK
Kraftwerk.
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 10:01:00 -
[286]
Edited by: Raguun on 12/11/2008 10:06:01
Originally by: C4LYP50
Edited by: C4LYP50 on 12/11/2008 09:56:40
Missiles aren't just worthless against nano's in PVP, they are pretty much the least preferred weapons system in the game, prepatch, which is why people tend to create Caldari mission runners, because that was the ONLY method of using missiles cost effectively for low skillpoints. And to get the bonuses to make that worthwhile, you had to go Caldari. A "hint" for people considering what they are gonna do at character creation, echoed a thousand times by people such as yourself.
You know lots of ppl cant afford to have misison runner alt, let alone recent increse in cost to play this game.
So they ARE force to run missions in inferior ship, just to be able o fly pvp in thei favorite race.
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C4LYP50
The Sky Is The Limit
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 10:13:00 -
[287]
Originally by: Raguun
You know lots of ppl cant afford to have misison runner alt, let alone recent increse in cost to play this game.
So they ARE force to run missions in inferior ship, just to be able o fly pvp in thei favorite race.
Again, untrue. If you pay for 1 account, you have 2 alts, either of which could be used as a mission runner. What, you object to having to take valuable training time away fronm your main? Then your main has no reason not to invest in the skills and ships if he wants to PVE. Using the "OMG its a worldwide financial CRISIS!" line would be more effective if you had a point to make. It has nothing to do with # of accounts held by a player, or what those accounts are used for, it's about you being pulled up for a misleading rant and now , embarrased. trying to garner sympathy. No dice.
Brunette By Birth...........Blonde By Nature.
------------------------------------------------
"Your suffering will be legendary, even in Hell."
"No tears, please; it's a waste of good suffering." |
Feriluce
Caldari
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 10:22:00 -
[288]
One thing is that big missiles do barely any dmg to small ships.
But another thing is light missiles dong 1/3 dmg against a target with an AB on.
They went way too far with missiles.
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Hermiat
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 10:24:00 -
[289]
Originally by: Nameless Soldier
Cry more please. Delicious tears.
Oh, oh, how VERY original. No one has said this yet! OK nameless soldier, i'll give u a name...... how about....... brainless fukwit?
Oh, oh, i know i'll use the very tired "Tears" line once again shall i?
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Vicious Salvo
Caldari
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 10:27:00 -
[290]
I think both missile carebears and caldari haters have it all wrong.
I agree that missiles should have been brought in line with other weapon systems, (would have saved me alot of sp if they did sooner, but I'm nitpicking  ) they were seriously overpowered, cruise missiles in particular. Though, as a raven pilot I've had no problem adjusting to it, does take much longer having to wait for drones to pop webber frigates. Now longer since they also nerfed hammerheads . The problem lies with more with the fact that caldari ships have misconfigured slot layouts that make them difficult to serve their roles.
It's funny to see people scream 'FIT WEB!; PAINTER!; AFTERBURNER!, now shut up' as if they were fitting an mega or armageddon, where you have mid-slots to give without having to worry about sacrificing a considerable amount of tank. Just fitting a web to serve its purpose would make an afterburner mandatory. You can just forget about fitting all three. I haven't seen a raven setup thats viable on just 3 slot tank, ignoring possible cap issues which would probably crop up for those who don't have high skill points in all applicable areas.
It would be far more reasonable just to reconfigure raven hulls with more midslots and drop a few of the lows, ravens don't really need that many low slots anyways. There is just no real use for them, apart from BCU's and even then you don't fit more than 3. Many I'm sure, myself included just fit power diagnostics, or a damage control.
An 8H/8M/3L (think reversed armageddon), or even a 8/7/3 (8/8/3 for a golem) layout would make a raven not just more viable for mission running, but make it more useful for BS vs BS pvp than an 8/6/5 slot ever could. Possible to at least bring it close to par with similar class battleships.
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Artelmis
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 10:29:00 -
[291]
Edited by: Artelmis on 12/11/2008 10:31:20
Originally by: Oftherocks
Guided missiles have been totally nerfed to uselessness.
The explosion velocity on a small missile has gone from 1750 m/sec to 170 m/sec, a decrease of 90.3%.
The explosion velocity of heavy missiles has gone from 750 m/sec to 81 m/sec, a decrease of 89.2%.
The explosion velocity of cruise missiles has gone from 500 m/sec to 69 m/sec, a decrease of 86.2%.
With these changes you don't need any speed mods at all (not even an ab) to speed tank against a missile ship.
the whole explosion nerf would be OK if they KEPT IT IN LINE WITH OVERALL SPEED DECREASES. however, since ships are going around 30% ish slower, and missile blasts are 80% slower... i fail to see any sort of balance. I mean, what do i know, i'm just a caldari pilot with a chip on his shoulder cause his CNR, a ship basically made for missioning, now does significantly less damage to everything, even against ships that are its own ship class... not like this is anything new to this topic mind you...
I would think that heavy missiles would do better versus larger class targets, and the sad part is their blast speed is still slow enough that many NPC BATTLESHIPS can reduce the damage taken as well. And good luck killing spider drones in your Cerberus! damned spider drones still orbit at freakish speeds and without small drones it took me almost 25 volleys with heavy missiles 5 and a full CN fit and a 4.5 second rate of fire whereas they used to only take 10-15 and were still irritating to take out. I've noticed a few other NPC ships that i used to be able to keep up with in my CNR as opposed to now where they're running rings around me.
so. in short. missioning has lost what little pleasure it had and ratting with missiles hasn't really gained any awards from this "expansion" either, and for those of us who relied on our stealth bombers, caracals, and Cerberus's for pvp are basically SOL. thank you CCP for helping me realize all this extra time I've taken training missiles to where i could blow things apart in lvl4's to where they take long enough for me to get burnt out after maybe one or two missions done solo.
of course, we did get that "cool" little certification system... that makes everything better for us because those are actually useful for... umm.. what ARE they useful for apart from a way to say "hey, i'm either not specialized or have so many skillpoints that I've started training things i'll never use" but thats a rant for a less missile-nerf-induced headache day.
edit: afterthought
BESIDES! who uses micro warp drives in missions anyways, so how does the missile effectiveness versus micro warp drives help in any way in missions?
|
Gneeznow
Minmatar
North Eastern Swat
Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 10:29:00 -
[292]
Originally by: Cpt Branko
Originally by: Taius Pax
I picked up Blockade lvl 4, and I've been shooting non stop for 30 minutes and I'm barely through the first spawn. 7X CN Launchers with 3X CN BCU. What kind of bull**** is this?
Enjoy your nano nerf, Caldari pigs.
:awesome:
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spinarax
Privateers
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 10:31:00 -
[293]
Edited by: spinarax on 12/11/2008 10:35:31
The way i see it,
Missile got nerfed : lower exp velocity
Guns got nerfed : less effective web
Close range ships : MWD shutdown on scram
Nano ships : speed nerf
sniper ships(kinda): Locus rigs stacking penalty
... so basically almost everybody got nerfed which mean nobody is really at a disadvantage, no? PVP-wise at least. I think all this just make combat a bit more challenging which is always welcome, IMO
EDIT: to caldari mission runners, try doing using long range gunships maybe? , its a lot more fun when u blow BCs in one voley with an arty
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Cat Molina
Minmatar
Psychotic Inc.
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 10:33:00 -
[294]
Originally by: Vicious Salvo
It's funny to see people scream 'FIT WEB!; PAINTER!; AFTERBURNER!, now shut up' as if they were fitting an mega or armageddon, where you have mid-slots to give without having to worry about sacrificing a considerable amount of tank. Just fitting a web to serve its purpose would make an afterburner mandatory. You can just forget about fitting all three. I haven't seen a raven setup thats viable on just 3 slot tank, ignoring possible cap issues which would probably crop up for those who don't have high skill points in all applicable areas.
You mean like a mission Maelstrom?.
You think missiles are bad? Try artillery. Yeah... tracking took a hit too. There's a reason Ravens were number one in PvE for so long.
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Pr1ncess Alia
Caldari
Perkone
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 10:36:00 -
[295]
Originally by: spinarax
The way i see it,
Missile got nerfed : lower exp velocity
Guns got nerfed : less effective web
Close range ships : MWD shutdown on scram
Nano ships : speed nerf
sniper ships(kinda): Locus rigs stacking penalty
... so basically almost everybody got nerfed which mean nobody is really at a disadvantage, no? PVP-wise at least. I think all this just make combat a bit more challenging which is always welcome, IMO
true
also makes pve more challenging.
this is aka loooonger and more time consuming
this is aka increasing the grind. which is awsomely packaged as an EXPANSION
|
Vicious Salvo
Caldari
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 10:36:00 -
[296]
Don't know much about artillery, but as long as you can kill battleships whats the problem?
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Malcanis
RuffRyders
Eradication Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 10:38:00 -
[297]
Originally by: Stork DK
I love it how the carebears whined for a nerf to nanos and ended up getting hit by the rebounce of the bat
Well I did try and warn them...
|
Berious
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 10:41:00 -
[298]
Originally by: spinarax
Edited by: spinarax on 12/11/2008 10:35:31
The way i see it,
Missile got nerfed : lower exp velocity
Guns got nerfed : less effective web
Close range ships : MWD shutdown on scram
Nano ships : speed nerf
sniper ships(kinda): Locus rigs stacking penalty
... so basically almost everybody got nerfed which mean nobody is really at a disadvantage, no? PVP-wise at least. I think all this just make combat a bit more challenging which is always welcome, IMO
EDIT: to caldari mission runners, try doing using long range gunships maybe? , its a lot more fun when u blow BCs in one voley with an arty
Pretty much, though looks like it was a shock to the system for Caldari as they expected to be WTFPWNing after this patch. The rest of us resigned ourselves to a nerfing weeks ago.
|
Vicious Salvo
Caldari
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 10:42:00 -
[299]
OWWWWW MY FACE!  Didn't know Iceland were big fans of baseball. Playing it in the snow explains all the bat related casualties.
|
Squably
Minmatar
Republic Military School
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 10:44:00 -
[300]
Torpedoes n Drones!
Signature removed. Please do not imply profanity in your signature. Navigator
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dontmindme justhauling
Amarr
Imperial Academy
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 10:45:00 -
[301]
Originally by: Pr1ncess Alia
Originally by: spinarax
snip..
true
also makes pve more challenging.
this is aka loooonger and more time consuming
this is aka increasing the grind. which is awsomely packaged as an EXPANSION
caldari whined about nanos, CCP gave QR, now they whine about missions... lets just wait for the next expension, im sure CCP will think of sumthing to to fix that, maybe try mining (the new Orca is here WOOT)while CCP figure out how to help caldari... again
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Snuggles Corpselove
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 10:46:00 -
[302]
The unthinking masses who cried years of tears to get a mostly unecessary nano nerf are learning that they should have just taken the advice offered to them by people who PVP full time.
Instead of fitting neuts and overloading webs, you're now getting hit by the same nerfbat.
GG.
And yes.
Your tears are delicious. This thread gave me a bit of a chubby.
|
Esmenet
Gallente
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 10:48:00 -
[303]
Originally by: Stork DK
I love it how the carebears whined for a nerf to nanos and ended up getting hit by the rebounce of the bat
Its the only positive thing in this patch.
|
bitters much
Nekkid Inc.
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 10:56:00 -
[304]
|
Maulith
DEATH'S LEGION
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 11:25:00 -
[305]
Maybe you carebears might have to find someone to help you with your "tricky" level 4 missions? Now where on earth you going to find someone to help you in an MMO game?!?!
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Aioa
Planetary Assault Systems
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 11:31:00 -
[306]
Originally by: Cpt Branko
Enjoy your nano nerf, Caldari pigs.
I dislike "/thread" posts but this really is about as much as needs to be said
--
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Plave Okice
Mercenary Forces
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 11:33:00 -
[307]
Originally by: Taius Pax
I picked up Blockade lvl 4, and I've been shooting non stop for 30 minutes and I'm barely through the first spawn. 7X CN Launchers with 3X CN BCU. What kind of bull**** is this?
How's that nano nerf working out for you?
|
AkRoYeR
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 11:46:00 -
[308]
Would you like some help on missions?
Solo missile game just got flushed.
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Ghoest
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 11:47:00 -
[309]
Originally by: Cpt Branko
Enjoy your nano nerf, Caldari pigs.
Best quote this year.
If you think corp is different than a guild or clan you have some insecurity issues.
|
NeoTheo
The Maverick Navy
Pupule 'Ohana
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 11:52:00 -
[310]
Originally by: Ghoest
Originally by: Cpt Branko
Enjoy your nano nerf, Caldari pigs.
Best quote this year.
no quote of a idiot who thinks that the nano nerf was all the caldari's fault.
or in otherwords, someones who unable to recall eve history.
anyhow, i am reserving judgement for now, but it appears that "flight time" is no longer a good enough down side for missiles and now 2x painter skills are going to be 100% needed to even put a missile in a launcher unless your shooting something bigger than you.
- MVN - Pupula 'Ohana
If you dont know, well, you dont know!
|
Iva Soreass
Black Plague.
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 12:03:00 -
[311]
What i find funny is, the 'carebears' who well...pve for a living are suddenly to blame for a 'pvp' nano nerf which in all honesty was sweet fa to do with 'carebears' and more to do with incompantant 'pvpers' who didn't know what to do with you 'leetest' nano 'pvpers'.
Quit the nano moaning and stop trying to pass the buck, its your own fault mr 'leetest pvpers' that your precious nano got nerf'd not the 'carebears' fault.
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Lady Farah
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 12:09:00 -
[312]
Whining about nanos drops my average isk/min income. If I pvp and gate camp i have more time to whine ....
Duh how many of these pointless "pvp vs carebear" posts do we need to post until you get over patchday?
Give it some more time, servers are not even up for one day!!
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Furb Killer
Gallente
The Scope
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 12:11:00 -
[313]
Does anyone know if i group 4 missiles and shoot it at a serpentis rat. Will it fire on average 1 defender missile per group, or 0.25?
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Quazal Atreides
Gallente
Indictus Commeatus
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 12:12:00 -
[314]
Originally by: Lady Farah
Whining about nanos drops my average isk/min income. If I pvp and gate camp i have more time to whine ....
Duh how many of these pointless "pvp vs carebear" posts do we need to post until you get over patchday?
Give it some more time, servers are not even up for one day!!
/nods agreement...
Geez..... personally i think the pvp's and the carebeasr shold just slap their **** on the table and see who's is the smallest after the patch.. there you go smallest is most nerfed post patch
[/url] |
Cat Molina
Minmatar
Psychotic Inc.
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 12:14:00 -
[315]
The actual truth (as I see it) is that CCP was going to make the changes it wanted, no matter who was complaining about what. Only in a single case have I seen public outcry effectively change their minds (the cap-ship disaster). This 'blame game' going on is wasted effort.
I still maintain that somewhere in the bowels of CCP sits a wheel which has all the races on it. Once a year it gets a spin. That race gets a boost, and the others get nerfed.
That's how they keep the game fresh year after year... and how they keep people training; forever running after that carrot just out of reach.
Having lagged behind for years, I just (last week) finished my missile training. No big deal. Competent pilots will always find a way to make things work.
|
Alia Xii
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 12:20:00 -
[316]
Originally by: Snuggles Corpselove
The unthinking masses who cried years of tears to get a mostly unecessary nano nerf are learning that they should have just taken the advice offered to them by people who PVP full time.
Instead of fitting neuts and overloading webs, you're now getting hit by the same nerfbat.
GG.
And yes.
Your tears are delicious. This thread gave me a bit of a chubby.
^^ This!
Maybe now all the whiners will learn to SHUT THE F**K UP! If you didn't like nano's or they gave you a problem - find a solution. Or as the old saying goes... Fight fire WITH fire!
Congrats on getting everyone hit with the biggest nerf stick in the history of nerf sticks.
Back to you in the studio.... f**kers! o/
|
Furb Killer
Gallente
The Scope
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 12:21:00 -
[317]
Originally by: Alia Xii
Originally by: Snuggles Corpselove
The unthinking masses who cried years of tears to get a mostly unecessary nano nerf are learning that they should have just taken the advice offered to them by people who PVP full time.
Instead of fitting neuts and overloading webs, you're now getting hit by the same nerfbat.
GG.
And yes.
Your tears are delicious. This thread gave me a bit of a chubby.
^^ This!
Maybe now all the whiners will learn to SHUT THE F**K UP! If you didn't like nano's or they gave you a problem - find a solution. Or as the old saying goes... Fight fire WITH fire!
Congrats on getting everyone hit with the biggest nerf stick in the history of nerf sticks.
Back to you in the studio.... f**kers! o/
Delicious nano tears.
Still i wonder why nano'ers redirect their anger to mission runners.
|
Obsidian Dagger
Weak and Fee-bile
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 12:29:00 -
[318]
Ahem. The entire thread is TL:DR, but I caught the first couple of pages, and have this thought on matters. (Have yet to test it out, but bear with me)
The bog-standard raven has six Missile slots, four turret slots. (Raven is an ugly POS, but it was effective, so i used it)
Now, AFAIK most missionrunners have the habit of slapping a tractor/salvager in those last two slots... Fair enough. I've always stuck rails in there since a passive tank uses no cap, and I thought it was a bit of a waste being 100% cap stable. (Am using 350mm rails the now, was training AWU so i could use 425's, but no more).
Instead, I am going to plop a couple medium or small blasters in there, and actually hit frigs. Because thats what you are supposed to use on frigs I thought? previously i never wasted time shooting frigs, Drones did the bulk of the close in work, and i only bothered wasting missiles on the small crap once the BS's were dead.
So.
Why the whining? A minor adjustment to the useless slots on my raven, and boom, effective raven again.
|
Phenomena X
Galactic PeaceMaking
Talon Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 12:29:00 -
[319]
Originally by: Furb Killer
Originally by: Alia Xii
Originally by: Snuggles Corpselove
The unthinking masses who cried years of tears to get a mostly unecessary nano nerf are learning that they should have just taken the advice offered to them by people who PVP full time.
Instead of fitting neuts and overloading webs, you're now getting hit by the same nerfbat.
GG.
And yes.
Your tears are delicious. This thread gave me a bit of a chubby.
^^ This!
Maybe now all the whiners will learn to SHUT THE F**K UP! If you didn't like nano's or they gave you a problem - find a solution. Or as the old saying goes... Fight fire WITH fire!
Congrats on getting everyone hit with the biggest nerf stick in the history of nerf sticks.
Back to you in the studio.... f**kers! o/
Delicious nano tears.
Still i wonder why nano'ers redirect their anger to mission runners.
It's not really about redirected anger, but more laughing about people who cried about nano ships and getting screwed by the "fix"
In every single nano whine thread there was 50+ posts about missile spammers crying "HOW IS IT POSSIBLE FOR A SHIP TO OUT RUN MISSILES!! whhaaaaaaa"
And for now I can say with the biggest smile on my face... "Adapt or die"
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAH ---- how do u like them apples!
|
Esmenet
Gallente
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 12:33:00 -
[320]
Originally by: Iva Soreass
What i find funny is, the 'carebears' who well...pve for a living are suddenly to blame for a 'pvp' nano nerf which in all honesty was sweet fa to do with 'carebears' and more to do with incompantant 'pvpers' who didn't know what to do with you 'leetest' nano 'pvpers'.
Quit the nano moaning and stop trying to pass the buck, its your own fault mr 'leetest pvpers' that your precious nano got nerf'd not the 'carebears' fault.
The two main groups of whiners were the caldari FW noob blobs of pve fit ships, and the 0.0 carebears that dont pay attention to local while ratting.
|
Furb Killer
Gallente
The Scope
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 12:35:00 -
[321]
Originally by: Phenomena XIt's not really about redirected anger, but more laughing about people who cried about nano ships and getting screwed by the "fix"
In every single nano whine thread there was 50+ posts about missile spammers crying "HOW IS IT POSSIBLE FOR A SHIP TO OUT RUN MISSILES!! whhaaaaaaa"
And for now I can say with the biggest smile on my face... "Adapt or die"
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAH ---- how do u like them apples![/quote
So why would mission runners care about your nano ship (which was ridiculous overpowered btw, killed solo combat).
|
Alia Xii
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 12:35:00 -
[322]
Originally by: Phenomena X
It's not really about redirected anger, but more laughing about people who cried about nano ships and getting screwed by the "fix"
In every single nano whine thread there was 50+ posts about missile spammers crying "HOW IS IT POSSIBLE FOR A SHIP TO OUT RUN MISSILES!! whhaaaaaaa"
And for now I can say with the biggest smile on my face... "Adapt or die"
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAH ---- how do u like them apples!
^^ This - also.
It's just poetic justice that the whiners now find themselves at a "disadvantage" because of the screaming they did for years.
I'm not directing it at one particular group pvp/pve, etc - just the people who whined for ages. You know who you are
Another quote - Better the devil you know!
Hope you've learned your lesson now???
|
Tippia
Caldari
School of Applied Knowledge
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 12:39:00 -
[323]
Originally by: Maulith
Maybe you carebears might have to find someone to help you with your "tricky" level 4 missions? Now where on earth you going to find someone to help you in an MMO game?!?!
Nah… My L4s are easier than ever, and they were entirely solo:able before the patch
Then again, I fly a Battlecruiser.
|
Furb Killer
Gallente
The Scope
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 12:41:00 -
[324]
Originally by: Alia Xii
Originally by: Phenomena X
It's not really about redirected anger, but more laughing about people who cried about nano ships and getting screwed by the "fix"
In every single nano whine thread there was 50+ posts about missile spammers crying "HOW IS IT POSSIBLE FOR A SHIP TO OUT RUN MISSILES!! whhaaaaaaa"
And for now I can say with the biggest smile on my face... "Adapt or die"
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAH ---- how do u like them apples!
^^ This - also.
It's just poetic justice that the whiners now find themselves at a "disadvantage" because of the screaming they did for years.
I'm not directing it at one particular group pvp/pve, etc - just the people who whined for ages. You know who you are
Another quote - Better the devil you know!
Hope you've learned your lesson now???
Stays fascinating to see pvp'ers telling themselves so often that carebears whine more than pvp'ers, they actually start to believe it.
|
Hyveres
Caldari
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 12:44:00 -
[325]
Originally by: Phenomena X
It's not really about redirected anger, but more laughing about people who cried about nano ships and getting screwed by the "fix"
In every single nano whine thread there was 50+ posts about missile spammers crying "HOW IS IT POSSIBLE FOR A SHIP TO OUT RUN MISSILES!! whhaaaaaaa"
And for now I can say with the biggest smile on my face... "Adapt or die"
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAH ---- how do u like them apples!
Who cares :)
This just means more time on my PvP alt while my PvE alt finishes getting T2 Beams and starts on T2 Hybrids :)
Rails , Beams & Drones baby , gallente + amarr + caldari(for when missiles get usefull again) means everything is covered.
Just a bit annoying to have 4-6 weeks downtime on this alt while I finish T2 gunnery skills
|
Sidrat Flush
Caldari
Life is Experience
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 12:46:00 -
[326]
I have only two items.
First of all let's congratulate CCP for getting the expansion done earlier than expected and more stable than ever. I think it's the first extended downtime that has gone without a hiccup (in full view of the public at any rate).
Secondly as a mission runner I now feel it's a good idea to take the right ship (and launchers) to the right "party". However I just want to ask which missiles go in the hull types? Confused? I'll make a list and you can correct/flame me as appropriate.
Rockets/light missiles = frigs, interceptors, assault frigs.
Heavy Missiles = Cruisers, Battle Cruisers, Heavy Assault Cruisers.
Cruise Missiles = Battleships, and other large sig radius holding ships.
Torpedoes = I've always assumed they were originally used for taking down pos's or very very big ships, like cap ships and stuff.
So there you have it, if I'm right that should indicated you'll do a level 3 mission faster if you take a heavy missile ship out and leave your Cruise Missile Spewing Demon at home.
However on Level 4 missions where you have more of a range of targets, would it be better to take Target Painting Drones or a group of small/medium combat drones?
By the way, I'm not blaming any one for the game changes, it's what CCP likes to do and will make the game more interesting until the next cookie cutter level 4 afk-mission-fit comes along.
--------------------------
Life is about memories the more the better.
|
Hyveres
Caldari
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 12:49:00 -
[327]
Originally by: Sidrat Flush
I have only two items.
First of all let's congratulate CCP for getting the expansion done earlier than expected and more stable than ever. I think it's the first extended downtime that has gone without a hiccup (in full view of the public at any rate).
Secondly as a mission runner I now feel it's a good idea to take the right ship (and launchers) to the right "party". However I just want to ask which missiles go in the hull types? Confused? I'll make a list and you can correct/flame me as appropriate.
Rockets/light missiles = frigs, interceptors, assault frigs.
Heavy Missiles = Cruisers, Battle Cruisers, Heavy Assault Cruisers.
Cruise Missiles = Battleships, and other large sig radius holding ships.
Torpedoes = I've always assumed they were originally used for taking down pos's or very very big ships, like cap ships and stuff.
So there you have it, if I'm right that should indicated you'll do a level 3 mission faster if you take a heavy missile ship out and leave your Cruise Missile Spewing Demon at home.
However on Level 4 missions where you have more of a range of targets, would it be better to take Target Painting Drones or a group of small/medium combat drones?
By the way, I'm not blaming any one for the game changes, it's what CCP likes to do and will make the game more interesting until the next cookie cutter level 4 afk-mission-fit comes along.
You are wrong
Light missiles = cruisers(unless you got web + painter)
Heavy missiles = Battlecruisers & larger(unless you got web + painter)
Cruise missiles = Capital ships(unless you got web + painter)
|
Drufus Gallius
Gallente
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 12:54:00 -
[328]
Edited by: Drufus Gallius on 12/11/2008 12:55:54
I won't join or comment on the "who was the reason for what politics BS" as I simply don't care. As much as some people that don't fly Caldari ships (or trolls) won't care about my neutral post.
The post is merely typed as the experience of somebody who uses the Caldari race.
I have never whined about the nano's. I joined EVE this year and nano's were simply a part of the game.
Something one knew was a threat and you needed to be carefull of.
Neither did I ask for the speed nerf which doesn't effect me at all since my skills were going towards the Falcon and missile boats. Sure they were a tough bunch to fight, but if u gotten yourself into a fight with them while ratting or solo in certain ships that aren't good at dealing with them then you already failed the first part of the tactic against nano's(my personal opinion).
I simply like missile warfare due to the fact that I was an anti tank missile shooter in the army for 12 years. And the fact that I like RL combat aircraft and missile tactics. Hence why I chose for the Caldari race when I joined the Eve adventure.
In general I think we can and will adapt after this patch...and I will definetly test out drones to attack any frigate types that attack me. Usually there is a solution for everything.
In a certain way I would understand that CCP would try to keep the missile damage on the small and fast frigate type craft relatively the same as before the nerf.
It is merely a fact that missiles have a harder time tracking (guiding towards) faster and very agile targets in comparing to tracking slow flying targets.
So keeping that damage equal like before the nerf would've been only fair.
The thing I don't like is that they made it far worse then before the nerf.
But hey...live goes on and if I shut down the PC I still have a life and a wife that nags my head off because of the time I spent on EVE again. There things won't change ;)
"Loyalty and dedication" |
Gamer4liff
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 12:57:00 -
[329]
So do precision cruise missiles still work fine on the lower rats?
|
Tharukan Desm'ar
Gallente
The Ninth Circle
Accord Corporate Enterprise Syndicate
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 12:59:00 -
[330]
Originally by: Gamer4liff
So do precision cruise missiles still work fine on the lower rats?
Yes. they're more effective than normal cruise missiles on smaller class ships.
|
Gamer4liff
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 13:03:00 -
[331]
Originally by: Tharukan Desm'ar
Originally by: Gamer4liff
So do precision cruise missiles still work fine on the lower rats?
Yes. they're more effective than normal cruise missiles on smaller class ships.
Well yes, I wouldn't imagine CCP nerfing them so that they wouldn't be, but I haven't been out to check if it takes more than 1 precision cruise to down a sansha's minion for example.
|
Epidemis
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 13:11:00 -
[332]
My first response after testing: overkill
|
Sidrat Flush
Caldari
Life is Experience
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 13:11:00 -
[333]
Originally by: Hyveres
Originally by: Sidrat Flush
Rockets/light missiles = frigs, interceptors, assault frigs.
Heavy Missiles = Cruisers, Battle Cruisers, Heavy Assault Cruisers.
Cruise Missiles = Battleships, and other large sig radius holding ships.
Torpedoes = I've always assumed they were originally used for taking down pos's or very very big ships, like cap ships and stuff.
You are wrong
Light missiles = cruisers(unless you got web + painter)
Heavy missiles = Battlecruisers & larger(unless you got web + painter)
Cruise missiles = Capital ships(unless you got web + painter)
I think we need a list including the T2 variants listing the missile to target hull class, without mid-slot bonus's.
I'm going to take out a drake and do a level 3 combat mission see what real difference it makes. If it means I'm going to have to mix things up slightly then so be it, small drones instead of mediums or a target painter instead of a second expander. Level 3 missions aren't that difficult to tank passive or active anyway.
I think I'm going to like this new patch, it's breathing new life in to Eve.
--------------------------
Life is about memories the more the better.
|
Rhaegor Stormborn
Omega Fleet Enterprises
Executive Outcomes
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 13:24:00 -
[334]
This thread delivers!
|
Epidemis
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 13:29:00 -
[335]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Maulith
Maybe you carebears might have to find someone to help you with your "tricky" level 4 missions? Now where on earth you going to find someone to help you in an MMO game?!?!
Nahà My L4s are easier than ever, and they were entirely solo:able before the patch
Then again, I fly a Battlecruiser.
No, it's more boring than ever due to these drastic changes which slows you down.
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Sidrat Flush
Caldari
Life is Experience
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 13:29:00 -
[336]
Originally by: Rhaegor Stormborn
This thread delivers!
Hopefully it will deliver solutions rather than the very very old pve vs pvp player attacks. We all know what we want to get out of the game so let's play.
--------------------------
Life is about memories the more the better.
|
Ice Moon
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 13:30:00 -
[337]
This thread's great.
One aspect of its greatness is the awesomely delusional mental state which seems to characterise "PVPers".
By repeatedly banging their heads against a wall, or sticking fingers in their eyeballs, or chewing their own elbows, or by some other similar means, some PVPers appear to have convinced themselves that a huge % of the playerbase who have no interest in PvP and who pootle around contentedly in Ravens doing missions actually:
a) understood what a nanoship was
b) had ever encountered one
c) did any PvP
d) cared enough about something which wasn't mission running
... to whine and moan about nanoships.
Eh?
The only people who whined about nanoships were PVPers.
That's been conveniently forgotten by the other PVPers who had nanoships.
However, PVPers have always hated mission runners because they (the PVPers) can't blow them (the mission runners) up, and that's what they enjoy doing.
Hence, this whole "PVPers putting the mosh on mission runners" thing. It's wild!
What I'd actually like to know is: how much slower is a Raven or CNR that has 1x PWNAGE and light and medium drones in its drone bay at running missions? In my (very limited) experience, only a fractional % of L4 missions needed a 6-slot tank in a CNR; I run most with a 5-slot tank and an PWNAGE and some with a 4-slot tank (with a teddy bear mascot in the last slot as I never had any use for it).
|
ArmyOfMe
4S Corporation
Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 13:31:00 -
[338]
Originally by: Cpt Branko
Originally by: Thorian Baalnorn
I heard this same arguement with T2 mods on a Raven." you shouldnt fly a raven until you can fit all T2 mods on it." Have anyone of you even flown a raven? I can fly and tank in a raven perfectly ... well could on level 4s with t1 mods.
Arguements on " you should fly a more expansive ship" are ridiculous at best in missioning. spending more money isnt always the solution to doing better. I shouldnt need a CNR or Golem to tank a level 4 mission.
But CCP decided to nerf solo PVP, so why not nerf solo L4 farming too?
^^ this
Originally by: deadmaus
Because by the time we had calmed Plague down after he heard BoB were back in the vicinity it was too late to do anything |
Jukhta Mein
Domini Umbrus
R.U.R.
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 13:32:00 -
[339]
Originally by: Taius Pax
Edited by: Taius Pax on 12/11/2008 00:34:45
Originally by: Nadarius Chrome
you're running a mission? On patch day? Are you insane?!?
Apparently...
Even against BSes cruise missiles appear less effective. I really hope this is a bug. If this is working as intended and the future direction of Eve is several hour long missions, I think EVE's subscriber base is going to shrink...
@Dirk: Even if PvP is all you do, you have to realize even those shiny things you get off those player controlled ships you blew up also came from... missions.
But I won't derail my own post with PvP vs Carebear. Back on topic: What's up with missiles?
edit: spelling.
You guys had it easy for so long.
|
mad27k
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 13:50:00 -
[340]
Edited by: mad27k on 12/11/2008 13:52:15
hahahha the carebears whine, and get nerfed themselves :D
HAHHAAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA
/edit
HAHHAAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAAHHAHAHHAHAHAH
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Another Forum'Alt
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 13:56:00 -
[341]
Originally by: mad27k
Edited by: mad27k on 12/11/2008 13:52:15
hahahha the carebears whine, and get nerfed themselves :D
Only the 'PVPers' whined, 95% of mission runners couldn't give a **** about how blobs in 0.0 are formed.
Nerf Zulupark. NOW. |
Gumpy Nighthawk
Amarr
Octavian Vanguard
RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 14:08:00 -
[342]
Originally by: Another Forum'Alt
Originally by: mad27k
Edited by: mad27k on 12/11/2008 13:52:15
hahahha the carebears whine, and get nerfed themselves :D
Only the 'PVPers' whined, 95% of mission runners couldn't give a **** about how blobs in 0.0 are formed.
We have to adept and you have to adept, big f'ing deal, i like it, we always are hit the hardest with the nerf bat, now you feel what it's like we have to cope with after every patch, even though i'm already missing my fast ship :(
Signature Locked. Please refrain from amending a moderated warning. Navigator |
Iva Soreass
Black Plague.
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 14:11:00 -
[343]
Originally by: mad27k
WTS Clue.
|
Matrix Skye
Caldari
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 14:13:00 -
[344]
Edited by: Matrix Skye on 12/11/2008 14:15:02
Originally by: Gumpy Nighthawk
Originally by: Another Forum'Alt
Originally by: mad27k
Edited by: mad27k on 12/11/2008 13:52:15
hahahha the carebears whine, and get nerfed themselves :D
Only the 'PVPers' whined, 95% of mission runners couldn't give a **** about how blobs in 0.0 are formed.
We have to adept and you have to adept, big f'ing deal, i like it, we always are hit the hardest with the nerf bat, now you feel what it's like we have to cope with after every patch, even though i'm already missing my fast ship :(
^^ THIS. So true HAHAHAHA. NAH NAH NAH-NAH NAH. I'm glad they nerfed too because US PVPers get nerfed all the time. But EVE is Mature players only like us. CAREBEars shouLD LIeave game. because they not MAture like us. so BOOYAKKA SUCKAS!!1
Edit: In case someone misses them, there are invisible sarcasm tags attached to my above statement.
Originally by: Ki An
PS. You're full of vitrol and hate... You're socially inept... You're so completely impotent in game... spewing venom over everyone...
^^ One of my "fans"  |
Iva Soreass
Black Plague.
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 14:16:00 -
[345]
Originally by: Matrix Skye
^^ THIS. So true HAHAHAHA. NAH NAH NAH-NAH NAH. I'm glad they nerfed too because US PVPers get nerfed all the time. But EVE is Mature players only like us. CAREBEars shouLD LIeave game. because they not MAture like us. so BOOYAKKA SUCKAS!!1
Quoteing and Bolding this for pure comedy value.
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Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
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Posted - 2008.11.12 14:17:00 -
[346]
Drama queen thread title wrecks forum for 12 pages. News at noon, tune in to scope.
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Matrix Skye
Caldari
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 14:17:00 -
[347]
Originally by: Iva Soreass
Originally by: Matrix Skye
^^ THIS. So true HAHAHAHA. NAH NAH NAH-NAH NAH. I'm glad they nerfed too because US PVPers get nerfed all the time. But EVE is Mature players only like us. CAREBEars shouLD LIeave game. because they not MAture like us. so BOOYAKKA SUCKAS!!1
Quoteing and Bolding this for pure comedy value.
SWOOSH! Read my edit .
Originally by: Ki An
PS. You're full of vitrol and hate... You're socially inept... You're so completely impotent in game... spewing venom over everyone...
^^ One of my "fans" |
Taius Pax
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 14:25:00 -
[348]
Edited by: Taius Pax on 12/11/2008 14:26:46
Originally by: Raguun
Is this trait or some Role playing of Caldari ship pilots? Whine all the time?
Now you face same problems as all other BS users had to face for years.
I really just don't understand this attitude. Is everyone here some sadomasochist? Must everything in this game be such a boring chore that only the most "hardcore" (this is a sarcastic insult) have enough perseverance to suffer through it?
Really? You're pleased we get to suffer? How about instead getting up and demanding CCP fix a broken game so it's fun instead?
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Ethaet
Gallente
Aliastra
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 14:25:00 -
[349]
Account cancelled.
Still got 1 month left unfortunately.
No, you can't have my stuff.
--------------------------------------------------------------
Seriously, we need some kind of separation between the post and signature.
There you go. Now that wasn't so hard |
Arikanaiz
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 14:26:00 -
[350]
Originally by: soldieroffortune 258
Originally by: Cpt Branko
Enjoy your nano nerf, Caldari pigs.
i endorse this product / and or service
they might be powerful in the movies / trailers ( i mean, seriously, taking Caldari prime (the gallente's CAPITOL system) would be like simply allowing russia to walk on D.C. or something, its pathetic
Wonder why they call it Caldari Prime... Kinda odd for a Gallente Capital don't ya think?
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Another Forum'Alt
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Posted - 2008.11.12 14:30:00 -
[351]
Originally by: Arikanaiz
Originally by: soldieroffortune 258
Originally by: Cpt Branko
Enjoy your nano nerf, Caldari pigs.
i endorse this product / and or service
they might be powerful in the movies / trailers ( i mean, seriously, taking Caldari prime (the gallente's CAPITOL system) would be like simply allowing russia to walk on D.C. or something, its pathetic
Wonder why they call it Caldari Prime... Kinda odd for a Gallente Capital don't ya think?
Technically, it is a planet in the main system, the entire point was that originally, the gallente and caldari each originated from different planets in the same system
lrn2readfluff.
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Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 14:31:00 -
[352]
The funniest thing about this thread is that missiles and missileboats (well apart from Cruise) have actually been boosted in PVP.
And the clueless Caldari noobs posting here haven't even noticed...
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Taius Pax
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 14:33:00 -
[353]
Originally by: Obsidian Dagger
Ahem. The entire thread is TL:DR, but I caught the first couple of pages, and have this thought on matters. (Have yet to test it out, but bear with me)
The bog-standard raven has six Missile slots, four turret slots. (Raven is an ugly POS, but it was effective, so i used it)
Now, AFAIK most missionrunners have the habit of slapping a tractor/salvager in those last two slots... Fair enough. I've always stuck rails in there since a passive tank uses no cap, and I thought it was a bit of a waste being 100% cap stable. (Am using 350mm rails the now, was training AWU so i could use 425's, but no more).
Instead, I am going to plop a couple medium or small blasters in there, and actually hit frigs. Because thats what you are supposed to use on frigs I thought? previously i never wasted time shooting frigs, Drones did the bulk of the close in work, and i only bothered wasting missiles on the small crap once the BS's were dead.
So.
Why the whining? A minor adjustment to the useless slots on my raven, and boom, effective raven again.
Slapping two medium blasters on the Raven won't reduce the ~140-170 missiles it now takes (using a reasonably pimped raven with very good skills) to take out a BS.
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Tippia
Caldari
School of Applied Knowledge
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 14:33:00 -
[354]
Originally by: Ethaet
No, you can't have my stuff.
Scrooge.
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Nolan Dempsey
H A V O C
Triumvirate.
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 14:34:00 -
[355]
Is this the part where people finally realize just how badly CCP screwed up?
Welcome to Amarr frigates online, enjoy your stay.
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Gumpy Nighthawk
Amarr
Octavian Vanguard
RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 14:36:00 -
[356]
Edited by: Gumpy Nighthawk on 12/11/2008 14:36:17
Originally by: Gumpy Nighthawk
Originally by: Another Forum'Alt
Originally by: mad27k
Edited by: mad27k on 12/11/2008 13:52:15
We have to adept and you have to adept, big f'ing deal, i like it, we always are hit the hardest with the nerf bat, now you feel what it's like we have to cope with after every patch, even though i'm already missing my fast ship :(
^^ THIS. So true HAHAHAHA. NAH NAH NAH-NAH NAH. I'm glad they nerfed too because US PVPers get nerfed all the time. But EVE is Mature players only like us. CAREBEars shouLD LIeave game. because they not MAture like us. so BOOYAKKA SUCKAS!!1
Edit: In case someone misses them, there are invisible sarcasm tags attached to my above statement.
WTS how to reading comprehension 101, i never said anywhere you guys are not mature, but seeing the response, i'm just assuming you are. Anyway truth hurts and keep on crying ;)
Signature Locked. Please refrain from amending a moderated warning. Navigator |
Matrix Skye
Caldari
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 14:36:00 -
[357]
Originally by: Gypsio III
The funniest thing about this thread is that missiles and missileboats (well apart from Cruise) have actually been boosted in PVP.
And the clueless Caldari noobs posting here haven't even noticed...
QFT^^^ I know HAHAHAHAHA!!1! caLDari no0bs are clueless, unlike US pPVPrs. hahahHAHAJHA. onLY us PVPPers are smart like us. ANd they DONt PVP but stiLL misiles got boosTED for Pvp. and PVeRS havnt realized it yet bcuz... wELL i don't WHY but all I KNOW they CLULESS.
Originally by: Ki An
PS. You're full of vitrol and hate... You're socially inept... You're so completely impotent in game... spewing venom over everyone...
^^ One of my "fans" |
Matrix Skye
Caldari
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 14:41:00 -
[358]
Edited by: Matrix Skye on 12/11/2008 14:41:03
Originally by: Gumpy Nighthawk
WTS how to reading comprehension 101, i never said anywhere you guys are not mature, but seeing the response, i'm just assuming you are. Anyway truth hurts and keep on crying ;)
and
Originally by: Gumpy Nighthawk
We have to adept and you have to adept, big f'ing deal, i like it, we always are hit the hardest with the nerf bat, now you feel what it's like we have to cope with after every patch, even though i'm already missing my fast ship :(
Emphasis on bold.
Originally by: Ki An
PS. You're full of vitrol and hate... You're socially inept... You're so completely impotent in game... spewing venom over everyone...
^^ One of my "fans" |
Glassback
Body Count Inc.
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 14:41:00 -
[359]
Ive just run a mission using the same CNR Cruise setup and it's no different.
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Taius Pax
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 14:42:00 -
[360]
Originally by: Glassback
Ive just run a mission using the same CNR Cruise setup and it's no different.
Run a cargo mission?
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Valan
The Fated
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 14:46:00 -
[361]
I feel the noob pain.
From a personal view I couldn't care less. Level 5 skills across the board means a vet can jump into the next FOTM. While more skills come out forcing the new guy to specialise the nerf stings even more.
I'll nerf myself and terminate the char so I can feel whats its like to be shafted every 6 months lol
/start sig
I love old characters that post 'I've beeen playing the game four years' when I know their account has been sold on.
/end sig |
Another Forum'Alt
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 14:46:00 -
[362]
Originally by: Taius Pax
Originally by: Glassback
Ive just run a mission using the same CNR Cruise setup and it's no different.
Run a cargo mission?
It's even worse at cargo missions now.
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Doctor Remulak
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 14:51:00 -
[363]
Originally by: Tiirae
Originally by: Bohoba
hehe charicter Bohoba can be recycled in 10 hours 55 min
another 70mill sp char bites the dust...
training an ammar noob now
Ha Ha, thats possibly the dumbest thing I've ever read. I am hoping like hell you really did this. Oh no! I've sprained my ankle... better take the whole leg off doc!
qft
|
Welp Welp
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 14:52:00 -
[364]
i lolled at this thread
be carefull what you whine about you might get more than you bargain for.
ohh well have fun the next year
Finally we get a mission running nerf
|
Bish Ounen
Gallente
Omni-Core Freedom Fighters
Ethereal Dawn
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 15:00:00 -
[365]
Edited by: Bish Ounen on 12/11/2008 15:01:13
Dear Caldari Mission runners;
I, as a mixed-type player (sometimes missions, sometimes ratting, sometimes PVP) do indeed feel bad for you. it does seem that CCP overstepped a bit when adjusting missiles to make Assault Frigates more viable (and this was the real reason for the missile nerf, it's not directly related to nanos). However, May I humbly suggest that you have, within your own Empire's ship stable, a viable, useful alternative.
The Rokh. (You can't stop it! )
I would imagine that many (if not most) of you have already cross-trained some Hybrid turrets already, so making the step over to the Rokh shouldn't be that difficult. Try fitting out your rokh with T2 425mm railguns and some Faction Antimatter ammo (with some extra Faction Iron ammo in there for those really far away targets) You will do plenty of damage, and will once again be able to rip through missions to your heart's content.
Best of luck to you!
A Gallente friend.
Tactical Logistics using the last T1 Frigate hull!
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Donkee Punch
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 15:06:00 -
[366]
Interesting... the amount of carebear bashing in this thread. Lest we forget children.. CAREBEARS make up a HUGE component of Eve. Their subscriptions form a substantial part of CCP revenue stream.
Carebears truly don't give a rats azz about PvP'ers they just want to noodle around Empire running missions and feel like they can be a terror by soloing lvl4 missions.
This has now been made much more difficult for them, Missiles were never the PvP WTFPWNOMGBBQSAUCE weapon anyway, yet with the abuse of nanosetups (rightfully complained about by PvP'rs I might add) the ability to reach "Ludicrous Speed" was addressed. Sadly this has also had the effect of further limiting Missiles usefullness.
Once again a samll vocal minority has caused a major shift in gameplay for the majority, Eve is rapidly becoming much akin to having a "second job" .. here is a newsflash.... 99.00% of the Carebears play Eve to HAVE FUN.. not get ganked.. not to work like a dog for little "apparent" reward. Hopefully this won't cause the playerbase to reduce too much, but this Missile nerf / adjustment was, I believe, poorly thought out at best.
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imnakid
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 15:09:00 -
[367]
lol best to watch what you whine about in the future |
Hyveres
Caldari
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 15:12:00 -
[368]
Edited by: Hyveres on 12/11/2008 15:12:10
Originally by: imnakid
lol best to watch what you whine about in the future
You mean what you whine about?
PvPers whined about nano's.
Carebears on the other hand do a mission or 2(or more) then log out and rarely visit the forums.
So whiners like you caused the missilenerf.
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Reennor
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 15:16:00 -
[369]
Can you please fix my missiles so I can run missions again, thank you CCP.
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Ethaet
Gallente
Aliastra
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 15:17:00 -
[370]
Originally by: Hyveres
Edited by: Hyveres on 12/11/2008 15:12:10
Originally by: imnakid
lol best to watch what you whine about in the future
You mean what you whine about?
PvPers whined about nano's.
Carebears on the other hand do a mission or 2(or more) then log out and rarely visit the forums.
So whiners like you caused the missilenerf.
This.
--------------------------------------------------------------
Seriously, we need some kind of separation between the post and signature.
There you go. Now that wasn't so hard |
Mistress Evita
Caldari
Booze and Hookers
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 15:22:00 -
[371]
Use a Nighthawk or cross train to use guns. What's so hard about that?
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Depopulo
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 15:30:00 -
[372]
WTF did they do to T2 cruise missiles???
Wrath precision Cruise missile
71 m/sec base exp velocity
3.5 damage reduction factor-what does this mean....??
Wrath Fury Cruise mssile
58 m/sec base exp velocity
4.7 damage reduction factor
4.5% sig radius penalty
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Lance Dragmire
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 15:30:00 -
[373]
I don't understand the whining.
I saw the numbers that had changed for the cruise missiles and was worried. My explosion velocity and radius were both nerfed, and I was worried that I wouldn't be able to do **** against mission rats.
Then I actually logged on and TRIED it... and I was surprisingly still able to run missions just as quickly as I did before in my Raven.
Now... I'm not running these missions using crappy skills at level 1 for the raven. Most are at level 4 for the missile and missile support skills. This no doubt helps.
Also, I field a flight of mediums AND a flight of light drones for dealing with frigates. The only major change I noticed is my medium drones have a lot more trouble hitting frigates. Ok fine, that's what lights are for.
The other change I noticed is I cannot one-volley destroyers anymore. Ok, fair enough, it was fun while it lasted, but I can take them out with 2 volleys or have my drones **** them.
Frigs are a pain to kill with missiles now. Oh no? They're hard to kill with guns too... light drones ftw.
Cruisers take me maybe 1, maybe 2 more volleys than normal to kill. No biggy, just more missiles I have to use. Certainly not the "doom and gloom" everyone is spewing.
Battleships? No change. I **** them the same as I did before.
Don't know what everyone is complaining about tbh. I even tried it with my room-mates torp raven and the damage #s seemed about the same (a little nerfed for cruisers and below but still viable).
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HankMurphy
Minmatar
Pelennor Enterprises
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 15:35:00 -
[374]
Originally by: Lance Dragmire
I don't understand the whining.
I saw the numbers that had changed for the cruise missiles and was worried. My explosion velocity and radius were both nerfed, and I was worried that I wouldn't be able to do **** against mission rats.
Then I actually logged on and TRIED it... and I was surprisingly still able to run missions just as quickly as I did before in my Raven.
Now... I'm not running these missions using crappy skills at level 1 for the raven. Most are at level 4 for the missile and missile support skills. This no doubt helps.
Also, I field a flight of mediums AND a flight of light drones for dealing with frigates. The only major change I noticed is my medium drones have a lot more trouble hitting frigates. Ok fine, that's what lights are for.
The other change I noticed is I cannot one-volley destroyers anymore. Ok, fair enough, it was fun while it lasted, but I can take them out with 2 volleys or have my drones **** them.
Frigs are a pain to kill with missiles now. Oh no? They're hard to kill with guns too... light drones ftw.
Cruisers take me maybe 1, maybe 2 more volleys than normal to kill. No biggy, just more missiles I have to use. Certainly not the "doom and gloom" everyone is spewing.
Battleships? No change. I **** them the same as I did before.
Don't know what everyone is complaining about tbh. I even tried it with my room-mates torp raven and the damage #s seemed about the same (a little nerfed for cruisers and below but still viable).
THIS
Wasn't sure what to think of the "OMG SKY IS FALLING" threads I saw at work, but now that i got home and tried a l4 out out w/ my trusty cruise cnr (t1 missiles) I didn't even notice a difference.
Did another, dropped my AB i fit for convenience and fit a painter just for the hell of it and even faster. Unless they did a rollback (lol), i think ppl should complain less and try patch first.
I'm not saying 'its not so bad of a nerf', 'i can accept the compromise of the changes', 'i will adapt' i'm saying "I DONT EVEN NOTICE A DIFFERENCE"
Not that i'm happy about the speed changes what so ever (i want to be clear about that) but missioners will be just fine.
------------------------------
everybody be cool this is a threadjack! just lay face down on the ground and no one will get hurt! |
Blastil
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 15:40:00 -
[375]
Quoting for ignorance.
Originally by: Khamal Jolstien
Ridic tanks were only achieved by sacrificing everything else.
Bombs still won't be used most likely.
The bombers purpose outside of bombs was to kill small targets, now it cant. So it's broken mmk?
Ewar ships tank like a wet paper bag, and there are plenty more coutners to them than nanos had.
I have a mate who has a Cerb which can tank a ****ing DOOMSDAY DEVICE, POINT, AND DOES DPS COMPERABLE TO MY THORAX. That ship is ****ing nuts.
If you don't use bombs after this missile nerf, your a ******.
The bomber was NOT designed to one-pop frigs. It was built as an ANTI FLEET nullsec blob killer, and if fails at that since no one USES THE DAMN BOMBS.
Ewar may tank like a wet paper bag, but it is STILL the only VIABLE form of combat Ewar. Damps come CLOSE, but really have no place in anything but the occasional gank, and only then by a skilled and knowledgeable Arazu pilot. Your whine about Caldari being overpowered is just plain dumb, and captain Picard facepalms for you.
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Taius Pax
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 15:41:00 -
[376]
Originally by: Lance Dragmire
I don't understand the whining.
I saw the numbers that had changed for the cruise missiles and was worried. My explosion velocity and radius were both nerfed, and I was worried that I wouldn't be able to do **** against mission rats.
Then I actually logged on and TRIED it... and I was surprisingly still able to run missions just as quickly as I did before in my Raven.
Now... I'm not running these missions using crappy skills at level 1 for the raven. Most are at level 4 for the missile and missile support skills. This no doubt helps.
Also, I field a flight of mediums AND a flight of light drones for dealing with frigates. The only major change I noticed is my medium drones have a lot more trouble hitting frigates. Ok fine, that's what lights are for.
The other change I noticed is I cannot one-volley destroyers anymore. Ok, fair enough, it was fun while it lasted, but I can take them out with 2 volleys or have my drones **** them.
Frigs are a pain to kill with missiles now. Oh no? They're hard to kill with guns too... light drones ftw.
Cruisers take me maybe 1, maybe 2 more volleys than normal to kill. No biggy, just more missiles I have to use. Certainly not the "doom and gloom" everyone is spewing.
Battleships? No change. I **** them the same as I did before.
Don't know what everyone is complaining about tbh. I even tried it with my room-mates torp raven and the damage #s seemed about the same (a little nerfed for cruisers and below but still viable).
Bull****.
Cruisers take nearly twice the missiles as before, and light drones cannot effectively kill them. (Certainly not in Blockade or Assault). Light drones will take out frigs just fine as before.
My post is based on actual usage on QR Tranquility. My missile skills are all IV or V. Caldari BS V. There is definitely an average 20-30% damage reduction against mission BS.
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Hul'ka
Minmatar
MicroFunks
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 15:41:00 -
[377]
Originally by: Darkie82
In fact this velocity explosion nerf isn't understandable... perhaps CCP should have deleted all mmissiles/launchers items instead, it would be a more clear message to launcher users than nerfing them like hell.
sure it's understandable. After they slowed down every ship out there missiles ware doing too much damage to them, so they needed to nerf them too.
They had to do at least something so Raven wouldn't become The Ship. But like nanonerf, they overnerfed missiles too. It's related.
---------
phew phew
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Taius Pax
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 15:42:00 -
[378]
Originally by: HankMurphy
I'm not saying 'its not so bad of a nerf', 'i can accept the compromise of the changes', 'i will adapt' i'm saying "I DONT EVEN NOTICE A DIFFERENCE"
Then you were a pretty poor Raven pilot and you were slow in the first place...
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Taius Pax
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 15:45:00 -
[379]
Originally by: HankMurphy
Did another, dropped my AB i fit for convenience and fit a painter just for the hell of it and even faster. Unless they did a rollback (lol), i think ppl should complain less and try patch first.
Sorry, I missed this before. You are definitely not a good Raven pilot (or one at all) if you stuck an AB on it for missions in the first place. You need all the mids for the shield tank.
|
HankMurphy
Minmatar
Pelennor Enterprises
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 15:46:00 -
[380]
Edited by: HankMurphy on 12/11/2008 15:49:40
Originally by: Taius Pax
Originally by: HankMurphy
I'm not saying 'its not so bad of a nerf', 'i can accept the compromise of the changes', 'i will adapt' i'm saying "I DONT EVEN NOTICE A DIFFERENCE"
Then you were a pretty poor Raven pilot and you were slow in the first place...
keep telling yourself that.
Originally by: Taius Pax
Sorry, I missed this before. You are definitely not a good Raven pilot (or one at all) if you stuck an AB on it for missions in the first place. You need all the mids for the shield tank.
OR... i'm not **** stupid and do just fine with a 5 slot tank
------------------------------
everybody be cool this is a threadjack! just lay face down on the ground and no one will get hurt! |
Feriluce
Caldari
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 15:49:00 -
[381]
Let me say this again for emphasis.
My LIGHT MISSILES does about 2/3 dmg to a frig moving WITHOUT AB OR SPEEDMODS.
I dont get how this huge nerf was waranted.
I can now also permatank 2 950k BS's in my caracal with a single T1 Shield extender on. Their torps do 25 dmg to while moving at 500 m/s.
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Dravius Luxor
Minmatar
Phoibe Enterprises
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 15:49:00 -
[382]
Edited by: Dravius Luxor on 12/11/2008 15:51:30
Originally by: Drunken Fury
First, READ PATCH NOTES.
Second. Train webbers.
Third. Train target painters.
Fourth. Switch to light drones.
I do love it when people save me the trouble of thinking what to write.
EDIT: It has just occurred to me after reading the entire thread that this is in fact a great boost for some of my favourite ships... ie: small ships... woohoo!
Now AF's have a purpose!
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Haakelen
Gallente
Fire Mandrill
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 15:53:00 -
[383]
Edited by: Haakelen on 12/11/2008 15:56:37
Originally by: HankMurphy
Edited by: HankMurphy on 12/11/2008 15:49:40
Originally by: Taius Pax
Originally by: HankMurphy
I'm not saying 'its not so bad of a nerf', 'i can accept the compromise of the changes', 'i will adapt' i'm saying "I DONT EVEN NOTICE A DIFFERENCE"
Then you were a pretty poor Raven pilot and you were slow in the first place...
keep telling yourself that.
Originally by: Taius Pax
Sorry, I missed this before. You are definitely not a good Raven pilot (or one at all) if you stuck an AB on it for missions in the first place. You need all the mids for the shield tank.
OR... i'm not **** stupid and do just fine with a 5 slot tank
Quoting this to confirm HankMurphy's assertion that Cruise Ravens still work fine in missions for people who aren't farmers.
e: vv L4s aren't nerfed at all, don't kid yourself
|
Solomon XI
Hoist The Colors.
Pirate Coalition
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 15:56:00 -
[384]
Originally by: Taius Pax
I picked up Blockade lvl 4, and I've been shooting non stop for 30 minutes and I'm barely through the first spawn. 7X CN Launchers with 3X CN BCU. What kind of bull**** is this?
Carebears whined about nano.
So nano was nerfed.
We whined about how you can make so much ISK via lvl-4's.
Carebears were nerfed.
Tit-for-tat.
|
Blastil
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 15:59:00 -
[385]
Originally by: Donkee Punch
This has now been made much more difficult for them, Missiles were never the PvP WTFPWNOMGBBQSAUCE weapon anyway, yet with the abuse of nanosetups (rightfully complained about by PvP'rs I might add) the ability to reach "Ludicrous Speed" was addressed. Sadly this has also had the effect of further limiting Missiles usefullness.
Missles may not always have been WTFPWNOMGBBQSAUCE, but shall I point out that the only weapon that ever HAS been were Pulse lasers a long long time ago, in a galaxy far far away. While missiles aren't the best at DPS, or at taking down big targets, the have ALWAYS been the most flexible weapon. A torp raven could pop frigate sized ships, while a Blaster Mega couldn't hit a barn flying that close and fast. Pre patch, a caldari ship of any kind could engage any other ship of any size and successfully kill it, regardless. In truth, Caldari ships ENCOURAGE the Blobbing BS gangs in 0.0 and lowsec, because its stupid for you to have a swarm of smaller ships. The drake you ran across will just switch over to faction F.O.F's and smoke the **** out of your small ships. However, you CAN gank minmatar amarr and galente ships in smaller ships thanks to blaster tracking.
This nerf adressed a serious problem with Caldari, in that their ships, while not WTFPWNAGE ships, they were FAR to flexible. With this change, we might see more mixed fleets. Caldari still have serious advantages in certain combat aspects, including F.O.F's, EWAR, the best shield tanks in the game, and moderate DPS combined with the largest selection of different ammo's. Do Galente get 40 different flavors of ammo, designed to deliver a specific kind of damage? No, the get two, and it's Iron or Antimater. You STILL have a viable race.
As for carebears, its not like your profession doesn't exist, which is better than we could say for the interceptor pilot, or the Assault frig Pilot.
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Irida Mershkov
Gallente
War is Bliss
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 16:01:00 -
[386]
Originally by: Vikarion
Edited by: Vikarion on 12/11/2008 04:59:34
Originally by: Aeo IV
And again, I don't care, all I know is somehow between Nanos broken, and Nanos fixed, someone broke my Raven. And my Abaddon. And my SB. And probably a good host of other things I haven't realized.
This. THISTHISTHISTHISTHIS.
Why should everything I enjoy flying be penalized because I didn't pay much attention to what other players were politicking about? Oh, right, because CCP uses a sledgehammer to swat gnats.
CCP needs a Terry Tate IMO
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Taram Caldar
Noir.
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 16:06:00 -
[387]
Edited by: Taram Caldar on 12/11/2008 16:06:40
Originally by: Jacob Mei
Originally by: Demonic Sentiment
so they nerfed torps to hell idk how long ago.. i wasnt playing... im getting to my 1 yr playing.. and what do they do... completely destroy my missiles : /.. btw wont drones be overpowered now becuase they can switch out at any time.. thats like switching between standar missiles, heavy missiles, and cruises w/o having to dock
You have always been able to have several sizes of drones in your hold at once, its just that many ships that arnt drone boats only have enough room for 5 med drones.
Adapt.. I swear raven pilots **** me off when they post this crap
75m3 drone bay
Carry 5 lights and 5 meds, train for T2 drones and use them.
Fit 1 target painter
Problem fkn solved.
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Malcanis
RuffRyders
Eradication Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 16:09:00 -
[388]
Originally by: Donkee Punch
Interesting... the amount of carebear bashing in this thread. Lest we forget children.. CAREBEARS make up a HUGE component of Eve. Their subscriptions form a substantial part of CCP revenue stream.
.
Meaning what? That they should never have to do a bit of adapting and surviving? That PvPers ú & $ should be discounted because we have nowhere else to go, whereas carebears will ditch EvE if the sugar-teat is cut off... or just reduced to a mere perky C-cup?
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Ticondrius
Southern Cross Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 16:24:00 -
[389]
ZOMG! Missiles are now a secondary weapon like all the other secondary weapons! OH NOEZ! I need to train turret skillz lyke everyone else! OMGZ!
It's pretty simple and has been said since the first missile nerf in the depths of time: The Caldari primary weapon is NOT missiles. It is Railguns.
To say otherwise is like saying the primary Gallente weapons are drones, where our real main weapon are blasters, and to a lesser extent, missiles/railguns.
So, go train up gunnery skills and learn about guns. They work about as well as missiles do now, but have better ship bonuses available IMO. Just see the Rokh.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
RABBLE! RABBLERABBLE!!
MMORPG: Many Men Online Role Playing Girls |
Marlorn Aeon
Caldari
Lone Starr Corporation
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Posted - 2008.11.12 16:42:00 -
[390]
This thread makes me laugh. Careful what you wish for carebears!
Next up! NERF L4 mission!
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Leeluvv
Federation of Freedom Fighters
Executive Outcomes
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 16:50:00 -
[391]
Originally by: Marlorn Aeon
This thread makes me laugh. Careful what you wish for carebears!
Next up! NERF L4 mission!
Why do all the idiots think the carebears wished for any of this? I wasn't aware that NPCs nanoing all over the missions was whined about so much....
Lee
==
Sig to follow |
maddmaxx III
Caldari
Middleton and Mercer LLP
Sylph Alliance
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Posted - 2008.11.12 16:54:00 -
[392]
Edited by: maddmaxx III on 12/11/2008 17:06:52
Edited by: maddmaxx III on 12/11/2008 17:05:09
Originally by: Ticondrius
ZOMG! Missiles are now a secondary weapon like all the other secondary weapons! OH NOEZ! I need to train turret skillz lyke everyone else! OMGZ!
It's pretty simple and has been said since the first missile nerf in the depths of time: The Caldari primary weapon is NOT missiles. It is Railguns.
To say otherwise is like saying the primary Gallente weapons are drones, where our real main weapon are blasters, and to a lesser extent, missiles/railguns.
So, go train up gunnery skills and learn about guns. They work about as well as missiles do now, but have better ship bonuses available IMO. Just see the Rokh.
I think what determines your primary weapons are the bonuses that your ship gives to that particular weapon, in the case of caldari, most ships have missile bonuses fella.
On a side note, I just finished up with extensive missile training last week, only to find that they get nerfed right after I finish, I now do the same amount of dmg to a BS with cruise missiles as I did with faction heavy missiles, seems silly to me but whatever.
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Verx Interis
Amarr
Aurora Security
Sc0rched Earth
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Posted - 2008.11.12 17:06:00 -
[393]
My Purifier is still fine... I think.
As for other missiles, hell with them. And missionrunners. The economy can survive without the massive injection of stale ISK.
---------
Your bad loan management perfectly strikes the stock market, wrecking for -777.68 points.
Eve job list |
maddmaxx III
Caldari
Middleton and Mercer LLP
Sylph Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 17:10:00 -
[394]
I did one mission, only once, they are the most repetitive thing in the game, my funding for pvp is mainly ratting and salvage, now I need to cross train or something, which is something I don't think you should have to do because of a nerf.
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Rylet VanDorn
Q3 HOLDING CORP
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Posted - 2008.11.12 17:16:00 -
[395]
The solution to the problem is simple:
QUIT. Don't try to sell your accounts or characters off to someone else to start a new character that won't be woefully gimped. Don't just keep training skills because you have faith that CCP will actually balance things. Just CANCEL YOUR ACCOUNT.
People need to start realizing there are games out there that are actually FUN TO PLAY. The dev teams behind them actually give a damn about the game being fun for their subscribers. The dev & GM teams for those games don't abuse GM powers in order to give themselves advantages, and they don't arbitrarily silence people blowing the whistle on these types of activities.
Seriously... if anything, Eve will always be here. The European Fanbois alone will provide them enough revenue to keep the game going. In that effect, Eve Online is basically just a really popular private server with everyone "donating" monthly to support it. My brother has 5 accounts only because he likes to play the market instead of the actual game, so nerfs don't really affect him much. I suspect more than 50% of Eve's subscription count can be account for by people with 2nd accounts.
Whatever the case... if you really don't like it, hit CCP where it hurts: Their subscriber base / Wallet. Just CANCEL YOUR ACCOUNT. Let the fanbois drink the Kool-aid until they drown in it.
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Donkee Punch
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Posted - 2008.11.12 17:22:00 -
[396]
Originally by: Marlorn Aeon
This thread makes me laugh. Careful what you wish for carebears!
Next up! NERF L4 mission!
Ummm.... in what thread did Carebears ever whine about Nanoships? Do you even read the forums or just flame post?
The whole point to this thread was that missiles as they stand now have been hit rather hard... harder than necessaery IMO.. but that's just the opinion of apparently a minority of us.. both carebear and non-carebear.
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maddmaxx III
Caldari
Middleton and Mercer LLP
Sylph Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 17:22:00 -
[397]
Originally by: Rylet VanDorn
The solution to the problem is simple:
QUIT. Don't try to sell your accounts or characters off to someone else to start a new character that won't be woefully gimped. Don't just keep training skills because you have faith that CCP will actually balance things. Just CANCEL YOUR ACCOUNT.
People need to start realizing there are games out there that are actually FUN TO PLAY. The dev teams behind them actually give a damn about the game being fun for their subscribers. The dev & GM teams for those games don't abuse GM powers in order to give themselves advantages, and they don't arbitrarily silence people blowing the whistle on these types of activities.
Seriously... if anything, Eve will always be here. The European Fanbois alone will provide them enough revenue to keep the game going. In that effect, Eve Online is basically just a really popular private server with everyone "donating" monthly to support it. My brother has 5 accounts only because he likes to play the market instead of the actual game, so nerfs don't really affect him much. I suspect more than 50% of Eve's subscription count can be account for by people with 2nd accounts.
Whatever the case... if you really don't like it, hit CCP where it hurts: Their subscriber base / Wallet. Just CANCEL YOUR ACCOUNT. Let the fanbois drink the Kool-aid until they drown in it.
This is prolly the route that I will take, having stuff nerfed right after training in that specific area is just very unattractive to me. And Im not talking about not being able to hit frigs with giant missiles, But when It effects my ability to kill npc rats efficiently it in turn affects my ability to fund pvp efficiently.
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Riga Mortiss
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 17:24:00 -
[398]
Originally by: Rylet VanDorn
The solution to the problem is simple:
QUIT. Don't try to sell your accounts or characters off to someone else to start a new character that won't be woefully gimped. Don't just keep training skills because you have faith that CCP will actually balance things. Just CANCEL YOUR ACCOUNT.
People need to start realizing there are games out there that are actually FUN TO PLAY. The dev teams behind them actually give a damn about the game being fun for their subscribers. The dev & GM teams for those games don't abuse GM powers in order to give themselves advantages, and they don't arbitrarily silence people blowing the whistle on these types of activities.
Seriously... if anything, Eve will always be here. The European Fanbois alone will provide them enough revenue to keep the game going. In that effect, Eve Online is basically just a really popular private server with everyone "donating" monthly to support it. My brother has 5 accounts only because he likes to play the market instead of the actual game, so nerfs don't really affect him much. I suspect more than 50% of Eve's subscription count can be account for by people with 2nd accounts.
Whatever the case... if you really don't like it, hit CCP where it hurts: Their subscriber base / Wallet. Just CANCEL YOUR ACCOUNT. Let the fanbois drink the Kool-aid until they drown in it.
One of the Top Ten best responses so far
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Lady Karma
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 17:45:00 -
[399]
Originally by: Rylet VanDorn
Whatever the case... if you really don't like it, hit CCP where it hurts: Their subscriber base / Wallet. Just CANCEL YOUR ACCOUNT. Let the fanbois drink the Kool-aid until they drown in it.
Awesome, looks like this patch will fix the lag as well.
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Zora
Gallente
Concealed Intentions
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 17:46:00 -
[400]
I'm sorry, I eated them :(
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RedSplat
Suddenly Ninjas
Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 17:49:00 -
[401]
Originally by: Zora
I'm sorry, I eated them :(
Accidentally an entire munitions stockpile
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Voin
Caldari
School of Applied Knowledge
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 17:54:00 -
[402]
To those bravery damn pilot's who think their bloody weapon`s wouldn't be nerfed in a future, my recommend - come down from the sky...
When CCP accomplishing to fuck Caldarians, they will turn over to others...
So be ready to be fucked in near future...
Amen...
My E.T.
1. English is not my native language
2. You can have my stuff in a Hell in your next life
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Feriluce
Caldari
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 17:56:00 -
[403]
Originally by: Rylet VanDorn
The solution to the problem is simple:
QUIT. Don't try to sell your accounts or characters off to someone else to start a new character that won't be woefully gimped. Don't just keep training skills because you have faith that CCP will actually balance things. Just CANCEL YOUR ACCOUNT.
People need to start realizing there are games out there that are actually FUN TO PLAY. The dev teams behind them actually give a damn about the game being fun for their subscribers. The dev & GM teams for those games don't abuse GM powers in order to give themselves advantages, and they don't arbitrarily silence people blowing the whistle on these types of activities.
Seriously... if anything, Eve will always be here. The European Fanbois alone will provide them enough revenue to keep the game going. In that effect, Eve Online is basically just a really popular private server with everyone "donating" monthly to support it. My brother has 5 accounts only because he likes to play the market instead of the actual game, so nerfs don't really affect him much. I suspect more than 50% of Eve's subscription count can be account for by people with 2nd accounts.
Whatever the case... if you really don't like it, hit CCP where it hurts: Their subscriber base / Wallet. Just CANCEL YOUR ACCOUNT. Let the fanbois drink the Kool-aid until they drown in it.
Funny how you dont follow your own advice.
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Heather Drauls
Rabies Inc.
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Posted - 2008.11.12 17:58:00 -
[404]
Originally by: Rylet VanDorn
The European Fanbois alone
It's all our fault. Now, please finish your emoquitrage thingy.
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Tippia
Caldari
School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2008.11.12 18:06:00 -
[405]
Originally by: Taius Pax
You are definitely not a good Raven pilot (or one at all) if you stuck an AB on it for missions in the first place. You need all the mids for the shield tank.
If you need all mids on a Raven for tank, then maybe you should increase your skills and/or rethink your fitting. It's certainly not needed.
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Ultrakorne
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 18:08:00 -
[406]
i am just a noob, and with mi caracal with missile i cannot do quests anymore.
lvl 2 quest are umbalanced, i have NO chance. is just frustrating.. i am playing this quest for 6 hours now, and i wear 3x LARGE shield extenders ...
its this normal? what should i do?
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Norwood Franskly
Minmatar
Fleet of the Damned
Dark Trinity Alliance
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Posted - 2008.11.12 18:23:00 -
[407]
Originally by: HankMurphy
OR... i'm not **** stupid and do just fine with a 5 slot tank
Even a 5 slot tank is probably bit of overkill. The change brings the Caldari in line with other races. As a Minmatar player who shield tanks for pve (Sleipnir, Maelstrom and I've been known to shield tank the tempest too  ) I've managed to do every level 4 I've come across with a 4 slot shield tank (XL Booster, Boost amp and 2 inv-fields) we need our other mids for stuff like AB's and tracking computers, glad you guys know what thats like too now.
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Malcanis
RuffRyders
Eradication Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 18:38:00 -
[408]
Took my Cerb out ratting for an hour.
Works exactly as it did before as far as I could tell.
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frsd
Caldari
Red Dwarf Mining Corporation
space weaponry and trade
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Posted - 2008.11.12 18:41:00 -
[409]
Originally by: Leeluvv
Originally by: Marlorn Aeon
This thread makes me laugh. Careful what you wish for carebears!
Next up! NERF L4 mission!
Why do all the idiots think the carebears wished for any of this? I wasn't aware that NPCs nanoing all over the missions was whined about so much....
Lee
This..
Carebears never ever whined about nano's..most of them dont even know what a "Nano" is..
blame yourselves for flying something overpowered..if you wouldnt have nano'ed in the first place nothing of this would have happened. But yeah, some people just cant accept that they sometimes have to lose, so they find something that gives them massive advantages at the costs of players who actually want to have fun PvP'ing and not always getting ganked. And the only counter to nano's was nano'ing... i never knew that Energy Neutrilizars and Webs did damage
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Malcanis
RuffRyders
Eradication Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 18:43:00 -
[410]
Originally by: Ultrakorne
i am just a noob, and with mi caracal with missile i cannot do quests anymore.
lvl 2 quest are umbalanced, i have NO chance. is just frustrating.. i am playing this quest for 6 hours now, and i wear 3x LARGE shield extenders ...
its this normal? what should i do?
Train target navigation prediction and guided missile precision.
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Khamal Jolstien
Caldari
Product Number 3
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 18:45:00 -
[411]
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Ultrakorne
i am just a noob, and with mi caracal with missile i cannot do quests anymore.
lvl 2 quest are umbalanced, i have NO chance. is just frustrating.. i am playing this quest for 6 hours now, and i wear 3x LARGE shield extenders ...
its this normal? what should i do?
Train target navigation prediction and guided missile precision.
Effects are nominal, unfortunately. I had trained these to counter nanos pre-ccp-f-up, and the difference was not noticeable, and it certainly doesn't help much now.
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Disteeler
Moritso Technologies
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 18:47:00 -
[412]
My God, It's full of emoragequits!
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frsd
Caldari
Red Dwarf Mining Corporation
space weaponry and trade
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 18:48:00 -
[413]
Or maybe CCP just wanted to reduce the playerbase so that the people who stay have more fun
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Malcanis
RuffRyders
Eradication Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 18:50:00 -
[414]
Originally by: Khamal Jolstien
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Ultrakorne
i am just a noob, and with mi caracal with missile i cannot do quests anymore.
lvl 2 quest are umbalanced, i have NO chance. is just frustrating.. i am playing this quest for 6 hours now, and i wear 3x LARGE shield extenders ...
its this normal? what should i do?
Train target navigation prediction and guided missile precision.
Effects are nominal, unfortunately. I had trained these to counter nanos pre-ccp-f-up, and the difference was not noticeable, and it certainly doesn't help much now.
They should work well enough vs rats.
Alternatively, he should fit assault launchers on his caracal.
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Circle
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 18:58:00 -
[415]
I dont notice any changes, maybe im to newb to notice yet
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Laechyd Eldgorn
Caldari
Art of War
Exalted.
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 19:15:00 -
[416]
Edited by: Laechyd Eldgorn on 12/11/2008 19:18:18
Answering before reading 9 pages.
Anyway. For what I've tested they did nerf BS sized missiles too much at least. I don't give a crap about missioning, but when apparently you can speed tank torpedoes with a bs it's a bit too much. :P
Also everyone who posted before me is a carebear.
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Kerfira
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 19:22:00 -
[417]
There exist a module called 'Target Painter'....
It exist in drone form too....
Improvise! Adapt! Overcome!
(I make my PvP money in L4 missions flying a Golem)
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
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zombeee
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 20:17:00 -
[418]
Edited by: zombeee on 12/11/2008 20:17:33
I did a crappy lvl4 full of frigs and cruisers yesterday to test it. I have a raven with meta 3 launchers, level 3 to all missile skills, but good T2 drones. It took a while but the drones did their job. If I wanted to go faster I would have fitted a target painter, or brought a drake.
It's really not that bad, the Raven is just not a solo owning machine in all PvE situations.
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Opertone
Caldari
SIEGE.
United Legion
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Posted - 2008.11.12 20:46:00 -
[419]
the surplus of ravens will last for decades! most produced ship in game, no demand at all... imagine the situation, the will become the relic weapon of the pre Quantum age.
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viuva
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 21:13:00 -
[420]
Someone can tell me why i choose caldari ??... i forget ... oh w8... i remember because pvp
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Adora Femella
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 21:27:00 -
[421]
Posting in a epic whine/ragequit thread \o/
To fellow caldari mission grinders, welcome to EVE in normal difficulty. Characters with worse skills and crappier ships learned to fit their ships in ways that allow them to grind every mission the game has to offer. The missile damage formula has changed, medium drones have changed. If you really are as clueless as this thread suggests, go to the ships and modules forum and ask advice from people that know this game as well as the devs if not better.
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Takvar
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 21:44:00 -
[422]
On the bright side, those missions against NPC Caldari missile-boats are going to be a breeze. Time to light the afterburners and let the drones rock-and-roll!
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Demonic Sentiment
Caldari
Dissonance Corp
Libertas Fidelitas
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 22:03:00 -
[423]
**** ccp : )...
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Thuia
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 22:25:00 -
[424]
Today i was unable to make a lvl 4 mission with my friend...
2 days ago i have no problem to do it alone...
The game should be funny... if nothing changes it will be not funny for me...
So i think CCP want to loose some subscriber... like me...
Now missle are **** for NPC and PVP too...
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KhaniKirai
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 22:26:00 -
[425]
I am a very well trained caldari turret and missile skilled character.
But something is wrong, when hacs and bc outperforms a bs with dps.
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Demonic Sentiment
Caldari
Dissonance Corp
Libertas Fidelitas
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 22:27:00 -
[426]
Originally by: Thuia
Today i was unable to make a lvl 4 mission with my friend...
2 days ago i have no problem to do it alone...
The game should be funny... if nothing changes it will be not funny for me...
So i think CCP want to loose some subscriber... like me...
Now missle are **** for NPC and PVP too...
as a side not... CCP YOU F.u.C.k.E.d UP
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Crackzilla
The Shadow Order
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 22:29:00 -
[427]
Originally by: Thuia
Today i was unable to make a lvl 4 mission with my friend...
2 days ago i have no problem to do it alone...
The game should be funny... if nothing changes it will be not funny for me...
Yet, isn't it more entertaining when something is difficult?
This isn't a nerf...this is a boost to fun!
Tell you what, how about CCP puts missiles back as they were, *only* if they give ncps 10x the hp and 2x the dps.
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Meleis
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 22:33:00 -
[428]
ive been running missions in my cerb using both hams and regular heavies and havent noticed much of a diffrence. then again im not looking for a reason to complain about the missile changes. hell the speed nerf didnt hurt my alts deimos that bad either. things looked bad on paper but in reality they are not that bad
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Demonic Sentiment
Caldari
Dissonance Corp
Libertas Fidelitas
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 22:34:00 -
[429]
Originally by: Crackzilla
Originally by: Thuia
Today i was unable to make a lvl 4 mission with my friend...
2 days ago i have no problem to do it alone...
The game should be funny... if nothing changes it will be not funny for me...
Yet, isn't it more entertaining when something is difficult?
This isn't a nerf...this is a boost to fun!
Tell you what, how about CCP puts missiles back as they were, *only* if they give ncps 10x the hp and 2x the dps.
u know i would have no problem with that lol.. my missiles would still be viable for pvp and u would need fleets to rat : )
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Marlorn Aeon
Caldari
Lone Starr Corporation
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 22:42:00 -
[430]
Originally by: Thuia
Today i was unable to make a lvl 4 mission with my friend...
2 days ago i have no problem to do it alone...
The game should be funny... if nothing changes it will be not funny for me...
So i think CCP want to loose some subscriber... like me...
Now missle are **** for NPC and PVP too...
Can I have your stuff?
|
Thorian Baalnorn
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 22:44:00 -
[431]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Wayson
I still do not know, and never will understand, why missiles had to be nerfed. Were they destroying PvP? Hahahahaha. Were they breaking PvE by making missions ridiculously easy? ... not really, as NPCs vomit defenders and there are swarms of small ships even in L4s. Blargh.
They would have broken the tweaked role for small, AB-using ships. This brings missiles in line with turret guns against small fast targets. Quote:
*continues training Gallente Frigate III, onward to the Dominix!*
May I suggest stopping at Gallente cruisers and BCs ù they eat L4s for breakfast, just like before
in line with turret guns? LOL launching missles and shooting bullets is far far far different. A missle can corrects its course in flight can a bullet? how about a laser? Missles should do more damage and be more accurate than turrets of any type.. because they have their own propulsion, missles can alter course mid flight therefore they should be more accurate than turrets and do more damage, actually, to faster moving ships.
Probably the only reason it got screwed up in the first place is because people whined their guns couldnt perform as good as missle launchers... in real life missles pwn guns.
eve is now offically a contradiction of both physics and reality.
|
Thuia
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 22:47:00 -
[432]
Originally by: Crackzilla
Originally by: Thuia
Today i was unable to make a lvl 4 mission with my friend...
2 days ago i have no problem to do it alone...
The game should be funny... if nothing changes it will be not funny for me...
Yet, isn't it more entertaining when something is difficult?
This isn't a nerf...this is a boost to fun!
Tell you what, how about CCP puts missiles back as they were, *only* if they give ncps 10x the hp and 2x the dps.
If you want difficult you can take only one missle luncher and go for mission if you want... or take missles that NPCs resist more... if you want difficult you can make the mission as hard as you want...
I dont like PVP. I boring with mining. I dont have skills to production. I just want to earm my ISK on missions like 2 days ago...
|
PsychoBones
Project Nemesis
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 22:48:00 -
[433]
Originally by: Cpt Branko
Originally by: Taius Pax
I picked up Blockade lvl 4, and I've been shooting non stop for 30 minutes and I'm barely through the first spawn. 7X CN Launchers with 3X CN BCU. What kind of bull**** is this?
Enjoy your nano nerf, Caldari pigs.
|
Demonic Sentiment
Caldari
Dissonance Corp
Libertas Fidelitas
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 22:48:00 -
[434]
Originally by: Thorian Baalnorn
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Wayson
I still do not know, and never will understand, why missiles had to be nerfed. Were they destroying PvP? Hahahahaha. Were they breaking PvE by making missions ridiculously easy? ... not really, as NPCs vomit defenders and there are swarms of small ships even in L4s. Blargh.
They would have broken the tweaked role for small, AB-using ships. This brings missiles in line with turret guns against small fast targets. Quote:
*continues training Gallente Frigate III, onward to the Dominix!*
May I suggest stopping at Gallente cruisers and BCs ù they eat L4s for breakfast, just like before
in line with turret guns? LOL launching missles and shooting bullets is far far far different. A missle can corrects its course in flight can a bullet? how about a laser? Missles should do more damage and be more accurate than turrets of any type.. because they have their own propulsion, missles can alter course mid flight therefore they should be more accurate than turrets and do more damage, actually, to faster moving ships.
Probably the only reason it got screwed up in the first place is because people whined their guns couldnt perform as good as missle launchers... in real life missles pwn guns.
eve is now offically a contradiction of both physics and reality.
wait eve actually aggreed with them at a point?
|
KhaniKirai
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 22:49:00 -
[435]
Edited by: KhaniKirai on 12/11/2008 22:50:18
Originally by: Thorian Baalnorn
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Wayson
I still do not know, and never will understand, why missiles had to be nerfed. Were they destroying PvP? Hahahahaha. Were they breaking PvE by making missions ridiculously easy? ... not really, as NPCs vomit defenders and there are swarms of small ships even in L4s. Blargh.
They would have broken the tweaked role for small, AB-using ships. This brings missiles in line with turret guns against small fast targets. Quote:
*continues training Gallente Frigate III, onward to the Dominix!*
May I suggest stopping at Gallente cruisers and BCs ù they eat L4s for breakfast, just like before
in line with turret guns? LOL launching missles and shooting bullets is far far far different. A missle can corrects its course in flight can a bullet? how about a laser? Missles should do more damage and be more accurate than turrets of any type.. because they have their own propulsion, missles can alter course mid flight therefore they should be more accurate than turrets and do more damage, actually, to faster moving ships.
Probably the only reason it got screwed up in the first place is because people whined their guns couldnt perform as good as missle launchers... in real life missles pwn guns.
eve is now offically a contradiction of both physics and reality.
You do realize that missiles even before patch were barely used in the real pvp?
EDit: you know it, others dont :/
Turrets BS were preferred over missile bs for a long while already.
Now the missile bs is totally useless.
Over 1 year, you see tons of minmatar pilots, their numbers already increased with the armor/shield resist changes.
|
Cat Molina
Minmatar
Psychotic Inc.
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 23:00:00 -
[436]
Believe it or not, but the Caldari and their Ravens are hardly the first victims of nerfs in this game. It happens all the time, and every race takes it's hits.
Sorry, but I gotta:
Harden the F**k Up!
|
Thorian Baalnorn
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 23:04:00 -
[437]
Originally by: KhaniKirai
Edited by: KhaniKirai on 12/11/2008 22:50:18
Originally by: Thorian Baalnorn
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Wayson
I still do not know, and never will understand, why missiles had to be nerfed. Were they destroying PvP? Hahahahaha. Were they breaking PvE by making missions ridiculously easy? ... not really, as NPCs vomit defenders and there are swarms of small ships even in L4s. Blargh.
They would have broken the tweaked role for small, AB-using ships. This brings missiles in line with turret guns against small fast targets. Quote:
*continues training Gallente Frigate III, onward to the Dominix!*
May I suggest stopping at Gallente cruisers and BCs ù they eat L4s for breakfast, just like before
in line with turret guns? LOL launching missles and shooting bullets is far far far different. A missle can corrects its course in flight can a bullet? how about a laser? Missles should do more damage and be more accurate than turrets of any type.. because they have their own propulsion, missles can alter course mid flight therefore they should be more accurate than turrets and do more damage, actually, to faster moving ships.
Probably the only reason it got screwed up in the first place is because people whined their guns couldnt perform as good as missle launchers... in real life missles pwn guns.
eve is now offically a contradiction of both physics and reality.
You do realize that missiles even before patch were barely used in the real pvp?
EDit: you know it, others dont :/
Turrets BS were preferred over missile bs for a long while already.
Now the missile bs is totally useless.
Over 1 year, you see tons of minmatar pilots, their numbers already increased with the armor/shield resist changes.
Missles could be useful in pvp on certain ships in certain situations...before the patch. In pve they were the best option, imo. now they arent useful for anything.
i am a caldari pilot but i also fly gallente. I can use rails, as that is what i use mostly for pvp. But why say we want to give players more options and nerf an entire race of ships and weapon class i dont get it.
the speed nerf was fine even but nerfing weapons and speed ...they cancel each other out. you still have speed tanks they just need less mods to speed tank.
"hey lets nerf speed across the board by 25%!" " good idea the players will love that.... hey to balance the game we should nerf weapons 75-100%! too" " PERFECT! We will be the first dev team to perfectly balance a MMO"
Ive played mmos for 7 years and i have to say this is , speaking unbiased, the most screwed up patch i have ever seen in terms of balancing. I have never seen a patch in any MMO that so far unbalances a game all in one go.
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Gone'Postal
Minmatar
Rage of Inferno
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 23:06:00 -
[438]
Missiles have been hit rather harshly tbh. They needed some tweaking but damn..
Oh well.. Time to rethink ship setups
Boost SISI VOTE NOW! |
Anig Browl
Caldari
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 23:06:00 -
[439]
Originally by: C4LYP50
This is an utter lie, and I call BS. Go back to the nano nerf thread and re read it (or maybe even read it for the first time!) No mission runner uses their moneymaker to pvp with. You said this in order to facilitate your second lie. Why on earth would a full time PVE pilot, who never uses, let alone SEES a nano'd ship, chime in begging for a nerf that has no effect on them? The people who complained about nanos being overpowered were their adverseries in low and nullsec. And only them.
This. I'm skilled enough to fly solo 0.0 in a raven, I use an AF if I want a PvP thrill and go with a group. I never cared about the nanos much to begin with - it's not a carebear issue if you spend most of your time in empire and stay out of wars.
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Voltas Stormtide
Bagman's Bookkeeping Services LLC
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 23:08:00 -
[440]
I've not spent much time logged in since QR was deployed yesterday so can't comment on the missile thing - but would the people who are frustrated with the issue please outline /exactly/ what missile skills and total missile SP is? We all knew for that in the past the raven was an excellent ship as you could achieve great things with only a few hundred thousand SP in missiles. This is unlike 90% of the other BS where you need significant SP in guns and/or dones to compete.
Please don't flame me, as I said I haven't tried the "new" missiles, however do you think this puts the raven more in line with other BS and we may see more variety now in the ships out missioning?
And FYI: HACs have always outperformed BS for belt ratting.
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Voin
Caldari
School of Applied Knowledge
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 23:27:00 -
[441]
Originally by: Demonic Sentiment
**** ccp : )...
did u say that?
fuck ccp : )
agreeded
My E.T.
1. English is not my native language
2. You can have my stuff in a Hell in your next life
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Demonic Sentiment
Caldari
Dissonance Corp
Libertas Fidelitas
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 23:31:00 -
[442]
Originally by: Voin
Originally by: Demonic Sentiment
**** ccp : )...
did u say that?
fuck ccp : )
agreeded
yep.. but i dont exactly understand the pic lol
|
Dracborne
H A V O C
Triumvirate.
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 23:37:00 -
[443]
I posted on page 7 but I've had more time to run a few more missions with my alt. I've successfully run lvl 4 Angels and Guristas Extravaganza, lvl 4 Blockade, and lvl 4 Enemies Abound (all 5). The only mission I had any trouble with was EA 5/5. It's extremely tough now. The light drones are a must for the frigs.
The cruisers take an extra volley or two to kill, and the BS's seem to take an extra 2 1/2 volleys. The biggest difference I've noticed is that I've had to carry an extra 1000 or so missiles into the longer, 4 and 5 pocket missions.
As far as pvp goes, we were testing missile's last night against inties and vaga's. My inties were pushing 4.7k and I was actually getting hit with missiles. My vaga was pushing 3.4k and was getting lit up pretty badly by the missiles.
-----------------------------------
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Demonic Sentiment
Caldari
Dissonance Corp
Libertas Fidelitas
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 23:40:00 -
[444]
Originally by: Dracborne
I posted on page 7 but I've had more time to run a few more missions with my alt. I've successfully run lvl 4 Angels and Guristas Extravaganza, lvl 4 Blockade, and lvl 4 Enemies Abound (all 5). The only mission I had any trouble with was EA 5/5. It's extremely tough now. The light drones are a must for the frigs.
The cruisers take an extra volley or two to kill, and the BS's seem to take an extra 2 1/2 volleys. The biggest difference I've noticed is that I've had to carry an extra 1000 or so missiles into the longer, 4 and 5 pocket missions.
As far as pvp goes, we were testing missile's last night against inties and vaga's. My inties were pushing 4.7k and I was actually getting hit with missiles. My vaga was pushing 3.4k and was getting lit up pretty badly by the missiles.
what were u shotting at the vaga and intty with?
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Hyveres
Caldari
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 23:40:00 -
[445]
Originally by: KhaniKirai
You do realize that missiles even before patch were barely used in the real pvp?
EDit: you know it, others dont :/
Turrets BS were preferred over missile bs for a long while already.
Now the missile bs is totally useless.
Over 1 year, you see tons of minmatar pilots, their numbers already increased with the armor/shield resist changes.
I can find a big killboard that proves otherwise , several hundred ships blown up in pvp by a corp that utilized tactics to make missiles effective.
|
wdwjhdw
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 23:45:00 -
[446]
Originally by: Dianeces
Medium drones got nerfed.....against frigate sized targets.
No doubt, but I really dont see any difference.
Ive been using an arbitrator for level 2's and the frigates still die in a few seconds after my drones close on them.
Maybe ill notice a bit of difference on elite frigates, but judging how well my Hammerhead 2's kill the standard frigates, I doubt its going to be worth messing about with light scout drones as well.
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Crackzilla
The Shadow Order
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 23:46:00 -
[447]
Originally by: Dracborne
The light drones are a must for the frigs.
Are medium drones effective against frigs? Haven't had a chance to test this.
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HowardStern
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 23:48:00 -
[448]
Originally by: Demonic Sentiment
Originally by: Thuia
Today i was unable to make a lvl 4 mission with my friend...
2 days ago i have no problem to do it alone...
The game should be funny... if nothing changes it will be not funny for me...
So i think CCP want to loose some subscriber... like me...
Now missle are **** for NPC and PVP too...
as a side not... CCP YOU F.u.C.k.E.d UP
Being a side not, does that mean they didn't **** up?
|
Demonic Sentiment
Caldari
Dissonance Corp
Libertas Fidelitas
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 23:54:00 -
[449]
Originally by: HowardStern
Originally by: Demonic Sentiment
Originally by: Thuia
Today i was unable to make a lvl 4 mission with my friend...
2 days ago i have no problem to do it alone...
The game should be funny... if nothing changes it will be not funny for me...
So i think CCP want to loose some subscriber... like me...
Now missle are **** for NPC and PVP too...
as a side not... CCP YOU F.u.C.k.E.d UP
Being a side not, does that mean they didn't **** up?
lol ummm... typo : P
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Austex II
Solar Flare Assembly
|
Posted - 2008.11.13 00:07:00 -
[450]
Our corp did a test yesterday after the release and the results were hilarious. A Raven verses a Frigate between two players in a corp. With the frigate using an AB, and using the four different types of Heavy Cruise Missles, I had a damage range between 4.5 and 9.3. I unloaded 6 cruise missles at the same time, and I barely dented the frigate's shield. This was also without the use of hardeners. The only way for my BS to take out the frigate was to use drones. I can understand the difference in size and the need to help new players entering the game, but the numbers are unjustifiable.
In lvl 3 and lvl 4 solo missions, with frigates, again it was next to impossible to destroy them without the use of drones. I suppose one could re-look at the ship configuration, but if you end up needing 2 small to medium size missle launchers out of say 6 high slots, the remaining 4 slots are going to have a hell of a time taking out a 1M bounty NPC.
My two cents worth, change is fine, but this is completely over the top. After this, I am seriously considering my subscription.
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Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators
|
Posted - 2008.11.13 00:08:00 -
[451]
ADAPT OR DIE
SKUNK
Originally by: CCP Navigator
People who think I am joking or talking big are going to understand very quickly that there will be order
|
Demonic Sentiment
Caldari
Dissonance Corp
Libertas Fidelitas
|
Posted - 2008.11.13 00:11:00 -
[452]
Originally by: Austex II
Our corp did a test yesterday after the release and the results were hilarious. A Raven verses a Frigate between two players in a corp. With the frigate using an AB, and using the four different types of Heavy Cruise Missles, I had a damage range between 4.5 and 9.3. I unloaded 6 cruise missles at the same time, and I barely dented the frigate's shield. This was also without the use of hardeners. The only way for my BS to take out the frigate was to use drones. I can understand the difference in size and the need to help new players entering the game, but the numbers are unjustifiable.
In lvl 3 and lvl 4 solo missions, with frigates, again it was next to impossible to destroy them without the use of drones. I suppose one could re-look at the ship configuration, but if you end up needing 2 small to medium size missle launchers out of say 6 high slots, the remaining 4 slots are going to have a hell of a time taking out a 1M bounty NPC.
My two cents worth, change is fine, but this is completely over the top. After this, I am seriously considering my subscription.
idk if im queit ready to stop playing.. but missiles need to be looked at lol.. that is insanely bad...
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ArmyOfMe
4S Corporation
Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2008.11.13 00:13:00 -
[453]
Originally by: Thuia
Originally by: Crackzilla
Originally by: Thuia
Today i was unable to make a lvl 4 mission with my friend...
2 days ago i have no problem to do it alone...
The game should be funny... if nothing changes it will be not funny for me...
Yet, isn't it more entertaining when something is difficult?
This isn't a nerf...this is a boost to fun!
Tell you what, how about CCP puts missiles back as they were, *only* if they give ncps 10x the hp and 2x the dps.
If you want difficult you can take only one missle luncher and go for mission if you want... or take missles that NPCs resist more... if you want difficult you can make the mission as hard as you want...
I dont like PVP. I boring with mining. I dont have skills to production. I just want to earm my ISK on missions like 2 days ago...
to bad, so sad.
dont let the door hit you on your way out
Originally by: deadmaus
Because by the time we had calmed Plague down after he heard BoB were back in the vicinity it was too late to do anything |
Renee Alexis
Luminous Love Brewery
|
Posted - 2008.11.13 00:20:00 -
[454]
Originally by: Taius Pax
I picked up Blockade lvl 4, and I've been shooting non stop for 30 minutes and I'm barely through the first spawn. 7X CN Launchers with 3X CN BCU. What kind of bull**** is this?
They changed your missiles into NerfTM projectiles! Unfortunately they forgot the neon colors and plastic surfaces. You might want to bug that. Don't worry, this is "working as intended"!
_____________________________________
|
Karentaki
Gallente
Fighting While Intoxicated
Intrepid Crossing
|
Posted - 2008.11.13 00:21:00 -
[455]
LOL! This wasn't quite the nerf I was hoping for with L4 missions, but it will do. This is finally proof that CCP don't all have Caldari mission alts. At least it will seriously damage the ISK farmers who all have low-SP achura chars running missions 24/7 in navy ravens since they will now need to sell off all their now crap navy ravens and train some other race (probably amarr). WTB cheap navy ravens!
Quote:
EVE is like a sandbox with landmines. Deal with it.
|
Mrs Storekeeper
|
Posted - 2008.11.13 00:22:00 -
[456]
Originally by: Voltas Stormtide
I've not spent much time logged in since QR was deployed yesterday so can't comment on the missile thing - but would the people who are frustrated with the issue please outline /exactly/ what missile skills and total missile SP is? We all knew for that in the past the raven was an excellent ship as you could achieve great things with only a few hundred thousand SP in missiles. This is unlike 90% of the other BS where you need significant SP in guns and/or dones to compete.
Please don't flame me, as I said I haven't tried the "new" missiles, however do you think this puts the raven more in line with other BS and we may see more variety now in the ships out missioning?
And FYI: HACs have always outperformed BS for belt ratting.
To answer your question and also counter some of the whiners in this and many other threads. If you train a character properly for the ship you want to fly, it works better. Before the patch 5M sp pilot could fly a raven and be more effective against NPC's then a 20M sp pilot focused on another race BS. Now you need more skills but if you have them, it's still very good.
This is what I have on my missionrunner alt:
 Caldari BS 5
All Missile support skills 5
Cruise Missile Spec 4
Torp Spec 5
9M SP in engineering skills
Missile Hardwiring implants
PvE
Using T2 fit Cruise Raven for ratting and missions and it works just fine. Some NPC's may need an extra volley to kill but no larger difference then that. 75m3 drone bay = 5 light and 5 med drones to handle frigs and sometimes destroyers or cruisers.
PvP
My T2 fit Torp Raven does massive damage and still has a decent tank. Just don't expect it to be a solo ship for PvP. This is a multiplayer game, team up with some friends.
|
Demonic Sentiment
Caldari
Dissonance Corp
Libertas Fidelitas
|
Posted - 2008.11.13 00:24:00 -
[457]
Originally by: Mrs Storekeeper
Originally by: Voltas Stormtide
I've not spent much time logged in since QR was deployed yesterday so can't comment on the missile thing - but would the people who are frustrated with the issue please outline /exactly/ what missile skills and total missile SP is? We all knew for that in the past the raven was an excellent ship as you could achieve great things with only a few hundred thousand SP in missiles. This is unlike 90% of the other BS where you need significant SP in guns and/or dones to compete.
Please don't flame me, as I said I haven't tried the "new" missiles, however do you think this puts the raven more in line with other BS and we may see more variety now in the ships out missioning?
And FYI: HACs have always outperformed BS for belt ratting.
To answer your question and also counter some of the whiners in this and many other threads. If you train a character properly for the ship you want to fly, it works better. Before the patch 5M sp pilot could fly a raven and be more effective against NPC's then a 20M sp pilot focused on another race BS. Now you need more skills but if you have them, it's still very good.
This is what I have on my missionrunner alt:
Caldari BS 5
All Missile support skills 5
Cruise Missile Spec 4
Torp Spec 5
9M SP in engineering skills
Missile Hardwiring implants
PvE
Using T2 fit Cruise Raven for ratting and missions and it works just fine. Some NPC's may need an extra volley to kill but no larger difference then that. 75m3 drone bay = 5 light and 5 med drones to handle frigs and sometimes destroyers or cruisers.
PvP
My T2 fit Torp Raven does massive damage and still has a decent tank. Just don't expect it to be a solo ship for PvP. This is a multiplayer game, team up with some friends.
any pointers for a pvp cerb setup?
|
Renee Alexis
Luminous Love Brewery
|
Posted - 2008.11.13 00:26:00 -
[458]
Originally by: Mrs Storekeeper
This is a multiplayer game, team up with some friends.
Damnit, and all this time I thought I was playing EVE-Offline.
_____________________________________
|
Mr Ignitious
R.E.C.O.N.
The Firm.
|
Posted - 2008.11.13 00:36:00 -
[459]
Originally by: Renee Alexis
Originally by: Mrs Storekeeper
This is a multiplayer game, team up with some friends.
Damnit, and all this time I thought I was playing EVE-Offline.
i like your sig.
Oh and: OMG funny how missiles now have a hard time hitting smaller ships LIKE EVERY OTHER LARGE WEAPON. crazy.
And as for people saying domi becoming mission king: for all of you not aware a domi takes quite some time to do missions as drone travel time is extremely obnoxious. The only reason it was ever revered in PvE is because it can tank... everything.
I must admit there are some interesting dps fits for the domi that count on sentries, but i'm not sharing them cuz you raven pilots were so mean to my isthar (which can also run lvl 4 missions )
|
Tsotha lanti
|
Posted - 2008.11.13 00:42:00 -
[460]
Edited by: Tsotha lanti on 13/11/2008 00:42:51
This is a PVE response:
I don't usually like to respond to these cry fests but this is getting old. I personally fly both caldari and amarr as well as gallente and minmatar battleships in missions. I can tell you straight up that the raven was way too easy/carebear; No-other race was able to sit their and lay waste to frigs and cruisers with their battleship sized weapons. I have for the duration of my missioning career relied on light drones for frigs and medium drones for killing cruisers because turrets did absolutely nothing to them, not even with webs, tracking computers and target painters and maxed out gunnery. Welcome to the world of eve that everybody outside of the carebear raven pilots / isk farmers have been playing. The only other race that comes close to doing level 4's that easy were gallente with heavy drones, but it appears that this has been fixed as well. That is what is called Balance.
|
Phenomena X
Galactic PeaceMaking
Talon Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.11.13 00:42:00 -
[461]
HAHAHAHAAH
MAN i can't get enough of this thread! CRY! CRY SOME MORE!
Just so you know, I just made this thread my home page!
|
Renee Alexis
Luminous Love Brewery
|
Posted - 2008.11.13 00:44:00 -
[462]
Originally by: Phenomena X
HAHAHAHAAH CRY! CRY SOME MORE!
points and gawks!
Everyone, look! It's the heavy weapons guy! Quick, steal his sandvich!!
_____________________________________
|
Korovyov
Luminous Love Brewery
|
Posted - 2008.11.13 00:46:00 -
[463]
Originally by: Phenomena X
CRY SOME MORE!
Boink!
--=--=-- train exhumers to 5 --=--=--
i see what you did here |
Lady Aja
Caldari
Ore Mongers
Black Hand.
|
Posted - 2008.11.13 01:06:00 -
[464]
Originally by: Marlorn Aeon
This thread makes me laugh. Careful what you wish for carebears!
Next up! NERF L4 mission!
WHEN ccp move lvl 4's to low sec I will be one of the many in lvl 4 channel larfin at them . all they do is complain how bad low sec is yet refuse to go near it. incase they loose thier full set of HG crystal imps and +5 implants. not to mention uber faction fitted noob ships.
in the mean time. carry on quiting you tards.... it'll ease up the lag in hi sec with you all leaving with youre upteen accounts.
Many kudos to Foulque for my sig.. |
Hyveres
Caldari
|
Posted - 2008.11.13 01:12:00 -
[465]
Originally by: Tsotha lanti
Edited by: Tsotha lanti on 13/11/2008 00:42:51
This is a PVE response:
I don't usually like to respond to these cry fests but this is getting old. I personally fly both caldari and amarr as well as gallente and minmatar battleships in missions. I can tell you straight up that the raven was way too easy/carebear; No-other race was able to sit their and lay waste to frigs and cruisers with their battleship sized weapons. I have for the duration of my missioning career relied on light drones for frigs and medium drones for killing cruisers because turrets did absolutely nothing to them, not even with webs, tracking computers and target painters and maxed out gunnery. Welcome to the world of eve that everybody outside of the carebear raven pilots / isk farmers have been playing. The only other race that comes close to doing level 4's that easy were gallente with heavy drones, but it appears that this has been fixed as well. That is what is called Balance.
So you are saying that a tach nightmare was unable to instapop cruisers at range?
|
Tsotha lanti
|
Posted - 2008.11.13 01:16:00 -
[466]
oh yeah because we are all comparing a billion isk ship to everything else....
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Demonic Sentiment
Caldari
Dissonance Corp
Libertas Fidelitas
|
Posted - 2008.11.13 01:27:00 -
[467]
My Idea
a way to help missiles w/o comepletly redoing their stats again
|
Sylper Illysten
Caldari
Ex Coelis
The Bantam Menace
|
Posted - 2008.11.13 02:09:00 -
[468]
Ok, so now that missiles can't hit smaller targets, can we bring their damage inline with guns? I mean that was the trade off wasn't it? Now that misisles are restricted to targets of the same size it seems that the dps should be modified to be inline with outher weapons systems.
|
Demonic Sentiment
Caldari
Dissonance Corp
Libertas Fidelitas
|
Posted - 2008.11.13 02:16:00 -
[469]
Originally by: Sylper Illysten
Ok, so now that missiles can't hit smaller targets, can we bring their damage inline with guns? I mean that was the trade off wasn't it? Now that misisles are restricted to targets of the same size it seems that the dps should be modified to be inline with outher weapons systems.
i like that idea to.. we dont get wrecking shots.. so give us more dmg or something...
|
Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators
|
Posted - 2008.11.13 02:20:00 -
[470]
Originally by: Demonic Sentiment
My Idea
a way to help missiles w/o comepletly redoing their stats again
1)Post a thread about it on the assembly
2)Get thousands of support
3)Be ignored totally by ccp
4)LOL
SKUNK
Originally by: CCP Navigator
People who think I am joking or talking big are going to understand very quickly that there will be order
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Kedrich
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Posted - 2008.11.13 02:26:00 -
[471]
Originally by: Demonic Sentiment
any pointers for a pvp cerb setup?
If you find one, please share, because Cerb has no drone bay, and with heavies explosion velosity at 125 m/sec (max skills, and i mean ALL skill) it hits for **** even cruisers.
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Karl Luckner
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Posted - 2008.11.13 02:28:00 -
[472]
In my opinion they should just take a look at the damage of medium drones vs cruisers, and maybe buff the guided missile precision skill a bit. Or better: add one medium slot and a bit grid/cpu to the Raven battleship family
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Kedrich
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Posted - 2008.11.13 02:34:00 -
[473]
OMFG
PRECISSION heavy missile 130 m/sec explosion velocity.
What kind of frigate I can shoot with such crap? AFK one?
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Eragon Endymion
Gallente
Enterprise Estonia
FOUNDATI0N
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Posted - 2008.11.13 02:34:00 -
[474]
Originally by: Sylper Illysten
Ok, so now that missiles can't hit smaller targets, can we bring their damage inline with guns? I mean that was the trade off wasn't it? Now that misisles are restricted to targets of the same size it seems that the dps should be modified to be inline with outher weapons systems.
NO.
the trade off is that your missiles at least always hit while in certain ranges turret uses almost never hit, so what that your missile does less damage than before but don`t come here to whine while actually your missile ship still is better in missioning than many turret ships.
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Sylper Illysten
Caldari
Ex Coelis
The Bantam Menace
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Posted - 2008.11.13 02:43:00 -
[475]
Originally by: Eragon Endymion
Originally by: Sylper Illysten
Ok, so now that missiles can't hit smaller targets, can we bring their damage inline with guns? I mean that was the trade off wasn't it? Now that misisles are restricted to targets of the same size it seems that the dps should be modified to be inline with outher weapons systems.
NO.
the trade off is that your missiles at least always hit while in certain ranges turret uses almost never hit, so what that your missile does less damage than before but don`t come here to whine while actually your missile ship still is better in missioning than many turret ships.
Always hitting for 0 damage is the same as a miss. If the main advantage of missiles has been removed (and even a BS with an AB can reduce incoming cruise missile dps by 50%) then the main disadvantages should be removed, flight time and lower DPS. Even more annoying is that while players are stuck with nerfed missiles and speeds, NPC seem to have retained their original stats, so are now faster and have a higher DPS.
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Dracborne
H A V O C
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.11.13 02:44:00 -
[476]
Edited by: Dracborne on 13/11/2008 02:44:41
Originally by: Demonic Sentiment
Originally by: Dracborne
I posted on page 7 but I've had more time to run a few more missions with my alt. I've successfully run lvl 4 Angels and Guristas Extravaganza, lvl 4 Blockade, and lvl 4 Enemies Abound (all 5). The only mission I had any trouble with was EA 5/5. It's extremely tough now. The light drones are a must for the frigs.
The cruisers take an extra volley or two to kill, and the BS's seem to take an extra 2 1/2 volleys. The biggest difference I've noticed is that I've had to carry an extra 1000 or so missiles into the longer, 4 and 5 pocket missions.
As far as pvp goes, we were testing missile's last night against inties and vaga's. My inties were pushing 4.7k and I was actually getting hit with missiles. My vaga was pushing 3.4k and was getting lit up pretty badly by the missiles.
what were u shotting at the vaga and intty with?
Cerb was shooting us with heavies and precision heavies. The vaga with the MWD on was getting eaten up by both missile types. The inty was getting hit with heavies but not severally. The precisions on the inty did decent damage.
-----------------------------------
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ramification
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Posted - 2008.11.13 03:02:00 -
[477]
Edited by: ramification on 13/11/2008 03:04:57
Originally by: Chris Liath
Now there will be other ships to pvp in, other ships to pve in, and strategy and tactics will actually matter. Not just speed and missile damage.
Meh, you're caldari. You wouldn't understand.
/thread.
I'm so glad I stuck with Minmatar. It was always obvious that we'd been properly designed as a race, but let down by general problems with the game mechanics that made our fighting style non-viable except for the most extreme nano builds. Not any more, perhaps (crosses fingers)
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Tsotha lanti
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Posted - 2008.11.13 07:01:00 -
[478]
Originally by: Sylper Illysten
Ok, so now that missiles can't hit smaller targets, can we bring their damage inline with guns? I mean that was the trade off wasn't it? Now that misisles are restricted to targets of the same size it seems that the dps should be modified to be inline with outher weapons systems.
Apparently you don't realize how often turrets miss completely and land minimal damage hits. Just because eft tells you a turreted ship can deal out 1000dps doesnt mean it is going to. In fact, it wont. With maxed out gunnery in an abaddon the majority of my hits are glancing hits for far less damage than a missile did prior to the patch if they hit at all which was not as often as you dream. Not to mention the whole drinking down capacitor like you don't even want to know while you are blazing away without counting tanking.
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Aieran
Madhatters Inc.
The Initiative.
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Posted - 2008.11.13 07:33:00 -
[479]
Originally by: Kedrich
OMFG
PRECISSION heavy missile 130 m/sec explosion velocity.
What kind of frigate I can shoot with such crap? AFK one?
From what I read heavy missiles are to be used now to take out cruisers, for frigates they say use standard missiles.
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
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Posted - 2008.11.13 07:45:00 -
[480]
Originally by: Aieran
Originally by: Kedrich
OMFG
PRECISSION heavy missile 130 m/sec explosion velocity.
What kind of frigate I can shoot with such crap? AFK one?
From what I read heavy missiles are to be used now to take out cruisers, for frigates they say use standard missiles.
what sig radio do those missles have for damage reduction?
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Antraxx
Caldari
Deviance Inc
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Posted - 2008.11.13 08:03:00 -
[481]
Tried to resist joining the threadnaught phnomonen..but..meh :D
tbh i think the changes QR brought to Eve have not exactly improved the game for the majority of players,not just caldari.
Drone nerfs...Speed nerfs...Missile nerfs...
*sigh* Eve was WAAAY more fun back in "Ye Good Olde Days"... Geddons stacking dmg mods...Dual MWD Ravens...Tempests actually made scary snipers etc :D
Was it well balanced?-Probably not...But heck it was FUN!
(And far less whinefests!)
Balance is fine until you get to the point where ship roles become very indistinct..
(Cerb Heavy Assault Cruiser....Err-What happened to the Heavy? :D)
While Gunboat pilots are happy to dit and say "Well at least your m issiles used to always hit",Sure...But for what dmg?
At least gunboats,while missing lots...compensated for it a little with the ability to go over their "Normal" dps with wrecking shots etc..
(And before anyone says "Train skillz!-Adapt or die!"...I fly all but Amarr-with highly trained skills in majority of ship types...So am not Pro-Missile....or Pro-Gunnery...Both have their pro's and cons.)
Missiles doing FULL damage after speed reduction was a problem?..I mean...God Forbid a weapon should hit for its full potential...
Seems these days a lot of ships no longer quite match their in game descriptions,as their abilitys have been hampered so much its getting a little silly..
Would have been better to simply put a cap on maximum achievable speed if Nano's were such a problem,rather than the current chain of ner***e that has been applied.
Ooh..One other thing that REALLY saddens me tbh-Is the depths the Eve community has sunk to regarding its avg player maturity.Its getting like Playground Politics in here..Many constructive posts are flamed with "Carebear tears!..Muahaha!" "Can i have your stuffz?" "Adapt noob!-haha!" etc.
People fell in love with a very harsh Eve Online-Where combat was fast and brutal..CCP-Please give it back ^^.
(WTS:-Rigged Ships:-Navy Megathron...Crow...Sleipnir..Raven.. WTB:-Abaddon. :D)
----------
----------
Deviance Inc. is recruiting!-Eve mail me :)
Originally by: CCP Sharkbait
we are screwed. delaying startup again. |
Mu Yaling
Caldari Navy Runners
|
Posted - 2008.11.13 08:05:00 -
[482]
Some of you guys makes me wonder if youre able to tie your own shoe laces. I have 9mill SP in missiles, 500k in drones. Its true killing a frigate with cruise missiles arent viable anymore. But even without a target painter, my drones kills frigates with no problems at all. Adding a tp makes it almost more effective than killing them with cruise missiles before the patch.
My main is (or was before i sold him) a 50mill sp minmatarr. Doing missions now with my CNR are still way more effective than with his Vargur.
I guess the problem is that Caldaris are not used to think about their setups or how to use the ships. For them its allways been F1-F6- activate shield booster. Now they have to F1-activate TP-Launch drones-Activate shield booster Thats two more steps for them.
Anyway, missiles are fine. Stop crying.
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Khamal Jolstien
Caldari
Product Number 3
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Posted - 2008.11.13 11:12:00 -
[483]
Originally by: Aieran
Originally by: Kedrich
OMFG
PRECISSION heavy missile 130 m/sec explosion velocity.
What kind of frigate I can shoot with such crap? AFK one?
From what I read heavy missiles are to be used now to take out cruisers, for frigates they say use standard missiles.
Ah, but only if it actually worked that way.
Heavies do pathetic damage against cruisers. Cruises do pathetic damage against battleships. God help you if they're moving.
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Ultrakorne
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Posted - 2008.11.13 11:20:00 -
[484]
rockets explosion velocity... 80 m/s wanna talk about that?
i just started to play and i use rockets / light missile and are useless agains my targets (frigates)
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Tsotha lanti
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Posted - 2008.11.13 11:22:00 -
[485]
rockets weren't useless before?
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Ultrakorne
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Posted - 2008.11.13 11:30:00 -
[486]
Originally by: Tsotha lanti
rockets weren't useless before?
they had good damage on small targets because of high rof...
but the problem is also light missile are useless agains frigates.. so what should do one with a small ship trying to do L1 quests?
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Mallikan
Gallente
Plundering Penguins
Anarchy.
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Posted - 2008.11.13 11:31:00 -
[487]
Fail topic is still fail.
Adapt?
---
For great justice. Or something.
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Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2008.11.13 11:34:00 -
[488]
Originally by: Khamal Jolstien
Originally by: Aieran
Originally by: Kedrich
OMFG
PRECISSION heavy missile 130 m/sec explosion velocity.
What kind of frigate I can shoot with such crap? AFK one?
From what I read heavy missiles are to be used now to take out cruisers, for frigates they say use standard missiles.
Ah, but only if it actually worked that way.
Heavies do pathetic damage against cruisers. Cruises do pathetic damage against battleships. God help you if they're moving.
Stop spouting rubbish, Khamal... 
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Tanya Stritner
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Posted - 2008.11.13 11:52:00 -
[489]
CAN I HAZ YoUr StUfF, NuBz?
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KwaLevu
Caldari
SentBySatan
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Posted - 2008.11.13 11:58:00 -
[490]
I havent used anything but missiles and after the new patch they still hit hard as before , the frigates and cruisers and BCs take an extra salvo or drones but all in all still love missiles for missions.
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AccesiViale
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Posted - 2008.11.13 12:13:00 -
[491]
Originally by: HankMurphy
sounds like everyone is shocked SHOCKED at the changes?
what did you expect?
lol at people screaming at mission runners "LOLOL this is what you get for nerfing my nanos"
i'm going to go out on a limb here and say it wasn't mission runners that did that. it was incompetent pvpers
sounds like an increase to grind? omg i'm shocked
you guys are really surprised by all this?
here is how i see quantum rise coming to be. imagine a sculptor trying to create his masterpiece. but every time he looks at it it's a bit unsymmetrical. so he shaves a bit off the left, and then a bit more off the right, until the final product is NOTHING like what the museum was expecting.
they didn't really nerf anything. a nerf is a calculated change to one aspect of the game. with quantum rise they completely changed the game foundations. subtle tweaks that have been made over several years were wiped and we started from zero.
the real question is, is this best in the long run??
well, i'll leave that judgement to time and you fine people.
i never did see what was wrong with the game to begin with, have been against every nerf they have thought up in the last 2 years....
i totally agree, the people upset w/ the missle changes are definetly not the people who cared about the nanos.
Bottom line is that the devs wasted their time on the trivial w/ this patch and put off the stuff that would actually have given new life and a bit more fun into the game. Store fronts, product branding, sounds like a good start right? nope, we think we'll focus more on certs...thats where the real fun is at. You're drone window stays put when you dock....your welcome.
They win because ill just keep giving them money hoping they do something productive with the next patch. Ive wasted to much time training to give up now and i look forward to spending the rest of my time waiting for eve, waiting for features, waiting for skills, waiting, always waiting...indefinetly
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Zackalwe
Gallente
Thundercats
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2008.11.13 12:44:00 -
[492]
Originally by: Austex II
Our corp did a test yesterday after the release and the results were hilarious. A Raven verses a Frigate between two players in a corp. With the frigate using an AB, and using the four different types of Heavy Cruise Missles, I had a damage range between 4.5 and 9.3. I unloaded 6 cruise missles at the same time, and I barely dented the frigate's shield. This was also without the use of hardeners. The only way for my BS to take out the frigate was to use drones. I can understand the difference in size and the need to help new players entering the game, but the numbers are unjustifiable.
In lvl 3 and lvl 4 solo missions, with frigates, again it was next to impossible to destroy them without the use of drones. I suppose one could re-look at the ship configuration, but if you end up needing 2 small to medium size missle launchers out of say 6 high slots, the remaining 4 slots are going to have a hell of a time taking out a 1M bounty NPC.
My two cents worth, change is fine, but this is completely over the top. After this, I am seriously considering my subscription.
Is it me or are some of you guys completely missing the point of these changes. Battleships ARENT SUPPOSED to be able to kill fast light AB frigs in close range using just BS sized weapons. THATS THE POINT.
No other battelship can why should a raven be so special?
Did you use a webber, a point, a heavy neutraliser and light drones? No? Try your test again with the above and watch the frig die.
Welcome to the the rest of Eve battleship combat.
To solo light tacklers in PvP it requires a fitting beyond "standard raven tank and cruise missiles". Just like every other damn battleship.
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Le Cardinal
Black Plague.
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Posted - 2008.11.13 12:56:00 -
[493]
Nice to be generalized as a carebear for being caldari race. Brainlag is strong in this thread.
I dont give a rats ass about the pve perspective in this. I focus on pvp. Note: I never complained about nanos, on the contrary, it was fun. When i nanoed i rarely used Caldari hacs tho. Mostly minamatar.
But back to the pvp perspective with missiles. Prepatch: You couldnt hit anything else then slow ass cruisers and battleships. Everything else pretty much outran missiles.
Postpatch: You can hit most ships, but dont do much dmg (is the general assumption). So now you are forced to let go of parts of tank to give better dmg.
This being said: I tried my cerb vs a zealot yesterday and did very good dmg.
However. Nighthawk vs abso = fail. Abso was better prepatch and is better postpatch. The dmgoutput from a nighhawk simply sucks vs a tanked abso. (i have maxed oout missileskills).
As for tank: The only sensible on a NH is passive tank. Works decently, but as soon as you hit armor ur toast.
Comparing to an abso i have to chew through the shield (with pre and postpatch ****ty dmg output) and then face a very good tank. Prepatch i was screwed, postpatch im screwed. Nothing has changed
As for the "caldari was uber before" lollers. It was uber for pve. Not pvp. Fleetbattles: Geddon = instahit. Raven: Go and eat dinner while waiting for missiles to hit.
As for nanoships: Your only chance to hit anything with missiles was to web ur target.
Im not whining tho. I was very surprised with the dmg output on my cerb. I used faction missiles. Presicion missiles suxors.
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Taius Pax
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Posted - 2008.11.13 14:55:00 -
[494]
Originally by: Crackzilla
Originally by: Thuia
Today i was unable to make a lvl 4 mission with my friend...
2 days ago i have no problem to do it alone...
The game should be funny... if nothing changes it will be not funny for me...
Yet, isn't it more entertaining when something is difficult?
This isn't a nerf...this is a boost to fun!
No it's just longer and boring... It's like pushing a car with a dead battery up a hill, is it more fun with a steeper hill?
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Serinao
Caldari
TYR.
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Posted - 2008.11.13 15:56:00 -
[495]
just did an test on blockade (level2) using an TargetPainter and 4 x heavy missile + 1 assault + 1 light launcher (1m sp in missile launcher skills) took me 5 minutes to kill off an frigate boy what a fun :/
carebear? well i killed some russians from solar fleet in their space on an char with less then 2 million sp with 5 people, in non nano ships guess that make me more an pvp'er then 80% off the people claiming to be one.
I am convinced that people with sp will adapt, as for genuine new caldari players? they prolly quit when they reach level 2 missions.
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Khamal Jolstien
Caldari
Product Number 3
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Posted - 2008.11.13 20:02:00 -
[496]
Originally by: Taius Pax
Originally by: Crackzilla
Originally by: Thuia
Today i was unable to make a lvl 4 mission with my friend...
2 days ago i have no problem to do it alone...
The game should be funny... if nothing changes it will be not funny for me...
Yet, isn't it more entertaining when something is difficult?
This isn't a nerf...this is a boost to fun!
No it's just longer and boring... It's like pushing a car with a dead battery up a hill, is it more fun with a steeper hill?
This right here folks. Caldari are allowed to have fun too! Not just the mission runners suffering, all Caldari. It is not fun to have the same, already subpar weapons become even more useless.
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Karentaki
Gallente
Fighting While Intoxicated
Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2008.11.13 20:11:00 -
[497]
Originally by: Khamal Jolstien
Originally by: Taius Pax
Originally by: Crackzilla
Originally by: Thuia
Today i was unable to make a lvl 4 mission with my friend...
2 days ago i have no problem to do it alone...
The game should be funny... if nothing changes it will be not funny for me...
Yet, isn't it more entertaining when something is difficult?
This isn't a nerf...this is a boost to fun!
No it's just longer and boring... It's like pushing a car with a dead battery up a hill, is it more fun with a steeper hill?
This right here folks. Caldari are allowed to have fun too! Not just the mission farmers suffering, all Calamari. It is not fun to have the same, currently overpowered weapons become slightly more balanced.
Fixed
Quote:
EVE is like a sandbox with landmines. Deal with it.
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Becq Starforged
Minmatar Ship Construction Services
Ushra'Khan
|
Posted - 2008.11.13 21:52:00 -
[498]
"Yeah, but battleships are supposed to suck against frigates lolol"
Fine, but what about cruiser and frigate weaponry?
Look, any chance we can agree that a stealth bomber (a frigate) ought to perform reasonably well against frigates and cruisers? Last night I ran some tests against a corp mate and found that against a frigate (with a signature larger than the explosion radius of the missile) moving at standard maximum speed (no nanos, ODs, AB or MWD) the bomber was reduced to about a third of the damage it inflicted against the same target stationary. And with an AB running, the damage was reduced to about a seventh. The bomber even lost a significant amount of damage against a T1 cruiser with an AB but no other speed mods.
Likewise, heavy missile should be expected to have reasonable effectiveness against cruiser targets, right? Wrong! Even when using precision heavy or HAM missiles against a T1 cruiser with an AB and no other speed mods/rigs, damage was reduced to near uselessness. And for missiles, of course, the target doesn't even need to keep the lateral speed up; charging straight in provides full damage reduction.
This really makes no sense. I enjoyed the effectiveness of the Raven in missions, and it's sad to lose that, but I understand the reasoning behind balancing missiles to reduce effectiveness against undersized targets. But now missiles appear useless against even the targets they are intended to work against.
--
Becq Starforged
Ushra'Khan
The Flame of Freedom Burns On! |
AkRoYeR
Amarr
|
Posted - 2008.11.13 22:13:00 -
[499]
Originally by: Becq Starforged
"Yeah, but battleships are supposed to suck against frigates lolol"
Fine, but what about cruiser and frigate weaponry?
Look, any chance we can agree that a stealth bomber (a frigate) ought to perform reasonably well against frigates and cruisers? Last night I ran some tests against a corp mate and found that against a frigate (with a signature larger than the explosion radius of the missile) moving at standard maximum speed (no nanos, ODs, AB or MWD) the bomber was reduced to about a third of the damage it inflicted against the same target stationary. And with an AB running, the damage was reduced to about a seventh. The bomber even lost a significant amount of damage against a T1 cruiser with an AB but no other speed mods.
Likewise, heavy missile should be expected to have reasonable effectiveness against cruiser targets, right? Wrong! Even when using precision heavy or HAM missiles against a T1 cruiser with an AB and no other speed mods/rigs, damage was reduced to near uselessness. And for missiles, of course, the target doesn't even need to keep the lateral speed up; charging straight in provides full damage reduction.
This really makes no sense. I enjoyed the effectiveness of the Raven in missions, and it's sad to lose that, but I understand the reasoning behind balancing missiles to reduce effectiveness against undersized targets. But now missiles appear useless against even the targets they are intended to work against.
I don't get the problem with Ravens. Post patch my Gravy Naven does excellent in level 4s. Yeah okay, so I have to actually micromanage my drones now and sick them on the frigs...big deal.
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Fekkerov U
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Posted - 2008.11.13 22:49:00 -
[500]
Look at all the broken stuff on this patch and the long needed I win Caldari Ratting Raven is nerfed to be in line with the other races and look at all the posts!
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FluterEx
Caldari
22nd Black Rise Defensive Unit
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Posted - 2008.11.13 22:58:00 -
[501]
Personally i totally understand why ppl are crying. Nobody likes it if his/her ships performance has been beaton down into the basement. I dont like the missile nerf, i didnt like the speed nerf, i dont like nerfing stuff at all no matter what it is.
I think nerfing everything like CCP has done now is just a really bad way to balance a game. I think instead of nerfing everything the could have improved the performances of the ships and modules that were not performing very well.
If they would start improving the weak ships and modules instead of nerfing the strong ones they could bring everything in line without making the ppl angry because they wasted SP again for things that have been made useless becaus of all the nerfs.
---------------------------------------
CCP Teara, we will all miss you. |
Opertone
Caldari
SIEGE.
United Legion
|
Posted - 2008.11.13 23:00:00 -
[502]
Originally by: Mu Yaling
Some of you guys makes me wonder if youre able to tie your own shoe laces. I have 9mill SP in missiles, 500k in drones. Its true killing a frigate with cruise missiles arent viable anymore. But even without a target painter, my drones kills frigates with no problems at all. Adding a tp makes it almost more effective than killing them with cruise missiles before the patch.
My main is (or was before i sold him) a 50mill sp minmatarr. Doing missions now with my CNR are still way more effective than with his Vargur.
I guess the problem is that Caldaris are not used to think about their setups or how to use the ships. For them its allways been F1-F6- activate shield booster. Now they have to F1-activate TP-Launch drones-Activate shield booster Thats two more steps for them.
Anyway, missiles are fine. Stop crying.
please, make a separate thread that supports missile nerf, here we gather to show the bad sides of the new system, we do not want argue that you may like it in fact.
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Nikolae Varius
Amarr
Exiled.
Veritas Immortalis
|
Posted - 2008.11.13 23:00:00 -
[503]
Oh god *pants*
I love the tears *licks tears of carebears*
Oh its so delicious
====================================
Looking for a 0.0 PvP corp? Check me out. |
Opertone
Caldari
SIEGE.
United Legion
|
Posted - 2008.11.13 23:01:00 -
[504]
Originally by: Mallikan
Fail topic is still fail.
Adapt?
fail poster is a joke gone wrong, we want CCP to adapt to us, we are the most numerous race
|
Opertone
Caldari
SIEGE.
United Legion
|
Posted - 2008.11.13 23:02:00 -
[505]
Originally by: Nikolae Varius
Oh god *pants*
I love the tears *licks tears of carebears*
Oh its so delicious
perverts this way >>> *move along
|
Opertone
Caldari
SIEGE.
United Legion
|
Posted - 2008.11.13 23:05:00 -
[506]
Edited by: Opertone on 13/11/2008 23:05:47
Originally by: Becq Starforged
"Yeah, but battleships are supposed to suck against frigates lolol"
This really makes no sense. I enjoyed the effectiveness of the Raven in missions, and it's sad to lose that, but I understand the reasoning behind balancing missiles to reduce effectiveness against undersized targets. But now missiles appear useless against even the targets they are intended to work against.
QFT
|
Dr NAthan
|
Posted - 2008.11.13 23:05:00 -
[507]
Originally by: Tiirae
Originally by: Bohoba
hehe charicter Bohoba can be recycled in 10 hours 55 min
another 70mill sp char bites the dust...
training an ammar noob now
Ha Ha, thats possibly the dumbest thing I've ever read. I am hoping like hell you really did this. Oh no! I've sprained my ankle... better take the whole leg off doc!
Haha, I know, anyone with 70 mil SP in this game must know it would be better to use the current character even if they had 18 IQ....
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Dirk Mortice
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Posted - 2008.11.13 23:08:00 -
[508]
Originally by: Opertone
we want CCP to adapt to us, we are the most numerous race
and this is why I hope CCP leaves you to rot
enjoy the nano nerf! muhahahaha
|
Opertone
Caldari
SIEGE.
United Legion
|
Posted - 2008.11.13 23:08:00 -
[509]
can't you understand his frustration? don't laugh at him, his showing us the right way of protest!
on his ashes will burn the flame of revolution!
The revolt against the old system and a new system to come...
|
Opertone
Caldari
SIEGE.
United Legion
|
Posted - 2008.11.13 23:10:00 -
[510]
Originally by: Dirk Mortice
Originally by: Opertone
we want CCP to adapt to us, we are the most numerous race
and this is why I hope CCP leaves you to rot
enjoy the nano nerf! muhahahaha
we can make the things better together, why do you want me to rot? Rise up! Overthrow the nano nerf!
|
Sovarin
Caldari
Federation of Freedom Fighters
Executive Outcomes
|
Posted - 2008.11.13 23:21:00 -
[511]
Caldari Prayer (Revised)
Our missles, who are in launchers
Useless be thy payload
Thy warhead come
Our enemies think fun
In low sec
As it is in Empire
Give us this nerf
Our daily nerf
And forgive us our whines,
But we won't forgive them that whine
against us
And lead us not into fleets,
But deliver us from turrets
For thine is the thermal,
The explosive,
The kinetic
And the EM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|
Talon SilverHawk
Caldari
Patria o Muerte
|
Posted - 2008.11.13 23:26:00 -
[512]
Edited by: Talon SilverHawk on 13/11/2008 23:26:35
Don't know about PVP , but did my first lvl 4 since the patch tonight and apart from frigs which where easily taken by drones, didnt see much difference with my Golem, whats all the fuss about ?
Tal
|
Blastil
|
Posted - 2008.11.13 23:28:00 -
[513]
Originally by: Mu Yaling
I guess the problem is that Caldaris are not used to think about their setups or how to use the ships. For them its allways been F1-F6- activate shield booster. Now they have to F1-activate TP-Launch drones-Activate shield booster Thats two more steps for them.
Haven't you read the backstory? Caldari aren't supposed to think! They're supposed to be mindless capitalistic drones working for the state's purpouses...
But if we went by the backstory, caldari aren't supposed to WHINE or have emotions at all, so my request seems unreasonable.
|
Cho McBeef
|
Posted - 2008.11.13 23:34:00 -
[514]
Way to go CCP. You nerfed everything and made everybody angry. I had missiles and nano trained with millions of skillpoints. at least i still have hybrids, drones, and ecm for now. but i guess when everything is nerfed we can all just trade and try to out-industry each other and be the most efficient with our reprocessing.
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Khamal Jolstien
Caldari
Product Number 3
|
Posted - 2008.11.13 23:57:00 -
[515]
Originally by: Karentaki
Originally by: Khamal Jolstien
This right here folks. Caldari are allowed to have fun too! Not just the mission farmers suffering, all Calamari. It is not fun to have the same, currently overpowered weapons become slightly more balanced.
Fixed
Look at you, you figured out how to change words in a quote. Awesome.
I can go into the whole spiel on how missiles were under powered (why most decent PVPers used turrets). Something about low DPS, delayed damage, useless vs speed at any range, and specialized ships were shield tankers doesn't make them too appealing.
But hey, if you want to just go ahead and edit other player's posts because you have some delusion that it is actually witty and effective, be my guest.
|
Blastil
|
Posted - 2008.11.14 00:09:00 -
[516]
Originally by: Khamal Jolstien
Originally by: Karentaki
Originally by: Khamal Jolstien
This right here folks. Caldari are allowed to have fun too! Not just the mission farmers suffering, all Calamari. It is not fun to have the same, currently overpowered weapons become slightly more balanced.
Fixed
Look at you, you figured out how to change words in a quote. Awesome.
I can go into the whole spiel on how missiles were under powered (why most decent PVPers used turrets). Something about low DPS, delayed damage, useless vs speed at any range, and specialized ships were shield tankers doesn't make them too appealing.
But hey, if you want to just go ahead and edit other player's posts because you have some delusion that it is actually witty and effective, be my guest.
You realize that the entire reason why Nanos were made were to KITE missles right? Right? Why would you create a counter to a threat that is NON-EXISTANT? Short answer: you DON'T. WTF missle pwn blobs were the mainstays of EVERY 0.0 alliance before trinity and empyrian age when the finally started nerfing the things. Why are they still popular? BECAUSE THEY WERE SO DAMN FLEXIBLE. And weren't half bad too boot.
Fail Post is Fail.
|
Khamal Jolstien
Caldari
Product Number 3
|
Posted - 2008.11.14 00:37:00 -
[517]
Originally by: Blastil
Originally by: Khamal Jolstien
Originally by: Karentaki
Originally by: Khamal Jolstien
This right here folks. Caldari are allowed to have fun too! Not just the mission farmers suffering, all Calamari. It is not fun to have the same, currently overpowered weapons become slightly more balanced.
Fixed
Look at you, you figured out how to change words in a quote. Awesome.
I can go into the whole spiel on how missiles were under powered (why most decent PVPers used turrets). Something about low DPS, delayed damage, useless vs speed at any range, and specialized ships were shield tankers doesn't make them too appealing.
But hey, if you want to just go ahead and edit other player's posts because you have some delusion that it is actually witty and effective, be my guest.
You realize that the entire reason why Nanos were made were to KITE missles right? Right? Why would you create a counter to a threat that is NON-EXISTANT? Short answer: you DON'T. WTF missle pwn blobs were the mainstays of EVERY 0.0 alliance before trinity and empyrian age when the finally started nerfing the things. Why are they still popular? BECAUSE THEY WERE SO DAMN FLEXIBLE. And weren't half bad too boot.
Fail Post is Fail.
No, the entire reason Nanos existed was to fly around invulnerable to ALL fire. Missiles were just easier because they could fly in any direction and be invulnerable.
Also, it wasn't just missiles in the pwn blobs. It was anything that was able to shoot a gun. It wasn't so much the missile, as it was the sheer number of players that overwhelmed all other tactical options.
|
Sakura Nihil
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
|
Posted - 2008.11.14 01:07:00 -
[518]
Obviously CCP felt that Raven's have been FOTM for missions for far too long, and needed to be rebalanced.
Enjoy your nerf.
Football? Hell yes. |
Vikarion
Caldari
White Rose Society
|
Posted - 2008.11.14 01:29:00 -
[519]
Originally by: Blastil
You realize that the entire reason why Nanos were made were to KITE missles right? Right? Why would you create a counter to a threat that is NON-EXISTANT? Short answer: you DON'T. WTF missle pwn blobs were the mainstays of EVERY 0.0 alliance before trinity and empyrian age when the finally started nerfing the things. Why are they still popular? BECAUSE THEY WERE SO DAMN FLEXIBLE. And weren't half bad too boot.
Fail Post is Fail.
This is, frankly, bull.
Nano's were used because they had the ability to escape all damage, and escape dangerous situations. Missiles were far less effective than guns against nanos, because guns could still hit a nano approaching straight on - missiles would hit for truly pathetic amounts of damage.
Also, stating that missile ships were the core of 0.0 operations before Trinity isn't just wrong, it's so insane and stupid that I don't think anyone can ever trust another one of your posts again. Missile ships have never been considered good for PvP in fleets, and only rarely in gangs - mostly for the torp raven. They simply do far less damage, and take too long to hit. That's why I stopped training Caldari ships - except for the Falcon, they're almost always sub-par for PvP.
As for your vaunted "flexibility", what's the point of having different damage types when everyone omni-tanks? And when it takes 10 seconds in perfect conditions to load a different type of missile? FoFs? Please. No one even packs them, because they do so little DPS and are worthless. "Always hit?"...sure, for pathetic damage - and that was before the patch.
Whatever you want to think about the patch, the facts are that missiles sucked for PvP before, much less now.
|
Svjeza Roba
|
Posted - 2008.11.14 01:57:00 -
[520]
Originally by: Cho McBeef
Way to go CCP. You nerfed everything and made everybody angry. I had missiles and nano trained with millions of skillpoints. at least i still have hybrids, drones, and ecm for now. but i guess when everything is nerfed we can all just trade and try to out-industry each other and be the most efficient with our reprocessing.
Hahahahaha.
Hahahahahahahahahaha.
I was a guy that was agains this nano nerf stuff,for a few resosn(one of tham was thath there was no efectiv way to avoid full dmg from misils wepons excepts nano ships that coud do outrun misils) but i have to admit that u CCP did fix game,all aspects off it and i do say:THANKS CCP FOR AWSOM JOB
Sine new patch everything is working the way it was ment to be.A lot of ships that where usles before now can be use perfectli well.And u did remove all the forms of Uber ships and fits that did rule pvp for too long time.AF finaly works,AB is usefull pvp modul,signatur rdius finaly works in right way,And most important of all misils are in line whith all other wepons.
Today i did engage raven in my vexor,and i was so suprised after i realize that i did not insta pop on second voley,and the fact that i coud sostain misils dmg and t2 gres for a while was a big surprise for me.And thx ccp once more making my pvp expirienc being posibil in normal t1 cruiser,and haveing to be forced to fly t2 cruiser nanoed complitly just to outrun that misils spaming from caldari ship allways hiting me for full dmg.
I LOVE YOU CCP.
Great job.
Caldari pilots use brain and learn to adapt.
Nano is nerfd.
Amen.
|
Ragnar Darkstar
|
Posted - 2008.11.14 02:14:00 -
[521]
Originally by: Sovarin
Caldari Prayer (Revised)
Our missles, who are in launchers
Useless be thy payload
Thy warhead come
Our enemies think fun
In low sec
As it is in Empire
Give us this nerf
Our daily nerf
And forgive us our whines,
But we won't forgive them that whine
against us
And lead us not into fleets,
But deliver us from turrets
For thine is the thermal,
The explosive,
The kinetic
And the EM
For ever and ever, or until the next patch, Amen.
|
Exlegion
New Light
|
Posted - 2008.11.14 02:24:00 -
[522]
I just did a Level 4 mission (The Score, Guristas). And noticed in fact a *slight* improvement against BCs and Cruisers, everything else seeming the same. However, I use cruise missiles and a painter as standard fit on my Golem.
I'll continue running missions and taking notes. I'll update my findings over the weekend.
One of us equals many of us. Disrespect one of us, you'll see plenty of us. - Gang Starr |
Flinx Evenstar
Minmatar
North Eastern Swat
Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2008.11.14 02:31:00 -
[523]
Am loving the speed nerf CCP thanks :)
___
|
Khamal Jolstien
Caldari
Product Number 3
|
Posted - 2008.11.14 06:58:00 -
[524]
Originally by: Sovarin
Caldari Prayer (Revised)
Our missles, who are in launchers
Useless be thy payload
Thy warhead come
Our enemies think fun
In low sec
As it is in Empire
Give us this nerf
Our daily nerf
And forgive us our whines,
But we won't forgive them that whine
against us
And lead us not into fleets,
But deliver us from turrets
For thine is the thermal,
The explosive,
The kinetic
And the EM
Well done sir;
Well done.
|
Kransthow
The Scope
|
Posted - 2008.11.14 07:55:00 -
[525]
adapt or die
|
Vikarion
Caldari
White Rose Society
|
Posted - 2008.11.14 07:58:00 -
[526]
Originally by: Kransthow
adapt or die
Shut up, spammer.
|
ramzahn
Caldari
|
Posted - 2008.11.14 08:40:00 -
[527]
It is strange, I don't even have the desire to log into the game anymore.
In fact, I'm now somewhat adverse to it.
|
Kransthow
The Scope
|
Posted - 2008.11.14 08:44:00 -
[528]
Originally by: Vikarion
Originally by: Kransthow
adapt or die
Shut up, spammer.
adapt or die
|
Dong Ninja
|
Posted - 2008.11.14 08:48:00 -
[529]
Originally by: Kransthow
adapt or die
|
Chienka
Viziam
|
Posted - 2008.11.14 08:59:00 -
[530]
Honestly, I get the impression some people in this thread have never fired a shot at another player in all the time they have been playing EVE.
AND NO. "Pirates" as you call them are not PvPers. Those are NPC pirates. They're not real. Learn to distinguish the difference before opening your uninformed mouths.
|
Gamesguy
Amarr
Black Nova Corp
Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2008.11.14 09:06:00 -
[531]
Originally by: Vikarion
This is, frankly, bull.
Nano's were used because they had the ability to escape all damage, and escape dangerous situations. Missiles were far less effective than guns against nanos, because guns could still hit a nano approaching straight on - missiles would hit for truly pathetic amounts of damage.
Missiles were far more effective vs guns against non-mwd targets outside of web range, and most nano ships could not perma-mwd. You're never going to kill a raven with a vaga for example, where as a vaga can easilly dodge the tracking of turret based battleships without the mwd active, and only bursting when the battleship tries to close to web range with its own mwd.
Medium guns also face****d nanos, but then again I wouldn't expect a mission runner to know much about pvp.
Quote:
Also, stating that missile ships were the core of 0.0 operations before Trinity isn't just wrong, it's so insane and stupid that I don't think anyone can ever trust another one of your posts again. Missile ships have never been considered good for PvP in fleets, and only rarely in gangs - mostly for the torp raven. They simply do far less damage, and take too long to hit. That's why I stopped training Caldari ships - except for the Falcon, they're almost always sub-par for PvP.
As for your vaunted "flexibility", what's the point of having different damage types when everyone omni-tanks? And when it takes 10 seconds in perfect conditions to load a different type of missile? FoFs? Please. No one even packs them, because they do so little DPS and are worthless. "Always hit?"...sure, for pathetic damage - and that was before the patch.
Whatever you want to think about the patch, the facts are that missiles sucked for PvP before, much less now.
Best anti-cruiser support: Cruise raven, although this is no longer the case.
Best anti-frig support: eagle/precision light cerb
Best EW support: Falcon
Best dread(post citadel buff): phoenix
Best FCS: Vulture
Best BC: Drake
Am I missing any?
|
eliminator2
Gallente
Fatality.
|
Posted - 2008.11.14 09:13:00 -
[532]
every race has adapted to this patch i mean think about minmatar
they used the vagabond (nanoer) and its ruined, they used the rapier/huggin its ruined becaus of web nerf there shield tanking ships ruined because of so many med slot fits you need to think of only ships they have are armor tankers and they arnt that great against every day PVP
and then Gallenete speed nerf ruined the ishtar speed nerf ruined blasters and tracking is to low to do anything and with what iv heard drones are getting nerfed next (only med so fare i think) and the web has ruined the blaster boat BUT we have dominix ishtar can be fitted for tank and then the arazu/lachesis are good so we stilll have the good points left that we are using
amarr sac and zealot are hurt by the speed nerf lazors have good range and tracking so they can use this to advantage they have pilgrim/curse for TD (tracking disruptors) so they arnt hurt bad
Caldari have had missile dmg nerfed because they would be overpowered in this patch and its balanced it out they can still do damage but since when have they ever been considered high DPS in PVP and then theres the good points they can shoot long range not good but its not bad they have rohk for rails they ECM ships that can still perma jam anything they have the crow wich is still a great interceptor so thats a way caldari can go for PVP and since falcons are a big use in gangs allready its noting new to you guys.
so the race/ships that need a boost the most is minmatar but do they whine nope they adapt and change to it and move on and i think caldari should do the same
|
Lana Lanee
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2008.11.14 09:23:00 -
[533]
adapt or die
|
0k00l
|
Posted - 2008.11.14 12:29:00 -
[534]
Edited by: 0k00l on 14/11/2008 12:31:20
Thank you, CCP.
Any questions? I'm about to cancel my 2 account subscription.
Caldari never give up!
|
Malcanis
RuffRyders
Eradication Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.11.14 12:32:00 -
[535]
Originally by: 0k00l
Any questions? Thank you CCP. I'm about to cancel my 2 account subscription.
http://rskum.griefwatch.net/?p=details&kill=1438
Caldari never give up!
well.... at least he was trying to adapt.
|
eliminator2
Gallente
Fatality.
|
Posted - 2008.11.14 12:36:00 -
[536]
Originally by: 0k00l
Edited by: 0k00l on 14/11/2008 12:31:20
Thank you, CCP.
Any questions? I'm about to cancel my 2 account subscription.
Caldari never give up!
can i haves ur stuff?
|
Haakelen
Gallente
Fire Mandrill
|
Posted - 2008.11.14 12:37:00 -
[537]
Originally by: 0k00l
Caldari never give up!
Apparently they do .
|
eliminator2
Gallente
Fatality.
|
Posted - 2008.11.14 12:40:00 -
[538]
Originally by: Haakelen
Originally by: 0k00l
Caldari never give up!
Apparently they do .
or whine more :p lol
|
0k00l
|
Posted - 2008.11.14 16:43:00 -
[539]
Subscription successfully canceled |
Pteranodon
|
Posted - 2008.11.14 16:53:00 -
[540]
Originally by: Demonic Sentiment
well i see the domi possably passing the raven as mission king.. with that drone bay
....it already is.....even before the nerf! |
Exlegion
New Light
|
Posted - 2008.11.14 17:15:00 -
[541]
To mission runners:
I'm mostly a Level 4 Runner and I can attest that cruise missiles with a painter are more effective now than pre-patch. I can't comment on how the changes affect PVP, as my experience with missiles + PVP is very limited. Fit a PWNGE painter and enjoy your mission! Trust me, they're worth fitting.
One of us equals many of us. Disrespect one of us, you'll see plenty of us. - Gang Starr |
Zar Dim
Minmatar
Anus Horriblis
|
Posted - 2008.11.14 17:25:00 -
[542]
I don't want to sound too smug, but I noticed no difference in my torp golem performance with big targets. As for cruisers and frigs it may take 4-8 additiobal torps to destroy them. Not a big deal.
And there are 2 rigs that can drasticly improve performance of missiles vs fast/small targets so it's basically boils down the fact do you want better tank or gank. That's perfectly fine I think.
From another hand light missiles and rockets need some love indeed.
|
Minsc
Gallente
A.W.M
Libertas Fidelitas
|
Posted - 2008.11.14 17:38:00 -
[543]
Originally by: 0k00l
Edited by: 0k00l on 14/11/2008 12:31:20
Thank you, CCP.
Any questions? I'm about to cancel my 2 account subscription.
Caldari never give up!
I have some. Why would you fit Seige launchers while ratting in a 0.1 in empire? Expecting a juicy battleship spawn or something.
Also...did you think up that fail fit on your own or did someone help you? |
Guderian3
Smegnet Incorporated
Paxton Federation
|
Posted - 2008.11.14 18:11:00 -
[544]
I am not even sure what to say about this thread. |
Kalintos Tyl
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2008.11.14 18:15:00 -
[545]
dont forget about implants |
Juicy Fruits
Empyrean Age
|
Posted - 2008.11.14 19:18:00 -
[546]
In summary: theyre broken. |
Lady Karma
|
Posted - 2008.11.14 19:27:00 -
[547]
Originally by: Juicy Fruits
In summary: theyre broken.
More tears please, I'm nearly done. |
Cambarus
The Baros Syndicate
Ministry Of Amarrian Secret Service
|
Posted - 2008.11.14 20:18:00 -
[548]
I think I'm going to go and post this in all the missile whine threads, because TBFH it needs to be said:
Well let's look at the nerfs and some buffs of the last year or so, and see how caldari compares to other races:
Tier II BCs introduced, caldari and gallente both get a BC capable of fielding >BS sized tanks. Nice Buff IMO (though they later get nerfed a bit, they still field awesome tanks)
Nos nerf. Affects everyone but mostly the gallente with their nos Domis.
Drone bandwidth. Gallente get a huge nerf that hits 2 of their best ships (Eos and Myrmi) Required? Of course, but the nerf was over the top. The ishkur also took a beating with this one.
Drone shield recharge nerf. Gallente get hit really hard with this one as recalling/relaunching drones is no longer very viable.
First nano nerf. Nanophoons and nanodomis are no more. Gallente and minmatar get nerfed.
I know at some point the calldari recons got boosted, though I don't remember exactly how Razz If someone can point out the change to me that'd be appreciated.
Resistance nerf. Armor lost some EM, shields lost some explosive, everyone gets nerfed.
Torp Buff. All of a sudden the raven becomes a very viable option in pvp. A raven + a tackler is a dangerous combination when the raven can easily hit >1k DPS
Sensor damps reduced massively in effectiveness (by about 50%) HUGE gallente recon nerf.
Second nano nerf. Many matari (as well as some gallente + amarr) ships become far less useful in pvp.
Those who were paying attention earlier may have noticed that drone boats got nerfed pretty hard a while back. But blaster ships are still viable in pvp!
Oh wait...
Web nerf. Blaster boats do not have the optimal to work without a good web. The web reduction results in a required tracking several times greater then before, and much more then blasters have.
The missile nerf. The raven is no longer the powerhouse of mission running.
I'm pretty sure that caldari have had it easy for quite some time now, it amazes me how quickly people complain the instant CCP changes their PVE boats. You'll get used to it, it's not like you're competing against other people in the mission...
And as far as PvP goes, Torp raven is still awesome, all ECM ships are as well, and I will be soon flying a blasteRokh as it'll be one of the few blaster boats with the range to track targets.
Everyone gets nerfed, the ships are far from useless. There will still be more caldari pilots and caldari raven mission runners then any other race, and the price on CNRs is a hundred freaking mil higher then the navythron...
This is the first nerf felt by mission runners in years, which is why we're seeing so much complaining, eventually they will realize that the sky is not, in fact, falling and we will all resume our normal eve lives.
Also, this post ignores the fact that there are ways around this nerf, unlike just about every other one mentioned in it |
Khamal Jolstien
Caldari
Product Number 3
|
Posted - 2008.11.14 21:55:00 -
[549]
Originally by: Juicy Fruits
In summary: theyre broken.
|
Rexthor Hammerfists
Rage of Inferno
|
Posted - 2008.11.14 21:59:00 -
[550]
Originally by: 0k00l
Edited by: 0k00l on 14/11/2008 12:31:20
Thank you, CCP.
Any questions? I'm about to cancel my 2 account subscription.
Caldari never give up!
Never Give Up Caldari haha |
Serinao
Caldari
TYR.
|
Posted - 2008.11.14 22:09:00 -
[551]
i can only hope that peole and ccp once learn that boosting something is the fix not nerving.
nano capable off outrunning any damage from (insert damage weapon here)
fine boost it so they can hit.
too hard for those ships now? fine give them something extra.
that way everyone stays happy cause they don't have to loose something.
I rather have "(insert your own race here)" using his "(insert your favorite item here)" having an easier time due to changes then people unrelated to your problem having now less fun.
|
Khamal Jolstien
Caldari
Product Number 3
|
Posted - 2008.11.15 05:56:00 -
[552]
Originally by: Serinao
i can only hope that peole and ccp once learn that boosting something is the fix not nerving.
nano capable off outrunning any damage from (insert damage weapon here)
fine boost it so they can hit.
too hard for those ships now? fine give them something extra.
that way everyone stays happy cause they don't have to loose something.
I rather have "(insert your own race here)" using his "(insert your favorite item here)" having an easier time due to changes then people unrelated to your problem having now less fun.
Run away boosting can be just as bad. We're looking for a nice balance. Balance for missiles was achieved pre-patch, except for Nanos. Now it's a bit ridicilous.
I would have preferred a lower key nano nerf, and keep everything else the same.
|
Natasha Zenith
Caldari
The 13th Armored Headhunters
|
Posted - 2008.11.15 06:20:00 -
[553]
Quick recap on the patch.
|
0k00l
Caldari
SOLAR SWIFTS
Varangians.
|
Posted - 2008.11.15 06:30:00 -
[554]
More words from me... CCP ruined my hope for missile PVP after the QR. Still got questions?
|
ucntkilme
Amarr
Forgotten Valor
|
Posted - 2008.11.15 07:10:00 -
[555]
As you can see, I am an amarrian character. When I first started this game, I was born into 0.0 space and moved down there at the age of 7 days old. Haven't really looked back.
When I first started the game, I was on the amarrian training, but was told to go for the drake because it made a decent ratter for a new character so I did. and I fell in love with the drake, and specialized in shield tanking and missile skills.
over a year later, I can now fly some amarrian ships but not effectively. I pvp in small amarrian ships (t2 frigs) and almost always die. I did however PVP in a drake for a really long time and what happened? I always died (other than the one time that I somehow managed to get a solo hac kill -- drake vs ishtar)
Up until about a week ago, I was still running L1 missions because I was in 0.0 ratting or pvping. With my new corporation, I figured I'd get some standings with Amarr so I can help potential members of my corporation get higher missions. I am now running most L3 missions and some L4 missions.
What am I using to do these missions in? You guessed it, a caldari battle cruiser -- a drake.. missile boat.
Now i'm not sure what people are complaining about, i'm not a real old character but I do have some specialized skills in missiles and the like. I can no longer kill a frig in 1 full volley -- instead it takes 1 and a half -- though sometimes i can 1 volley kill a cruiser.
with my fit, i don't even employ drones -- I don't even carry any in my drone bay. Does it hurt me? Not one bit, I'm still able to hit a frigate @ 60KM away using a t2 heavy missile equipped with regular missiles (Thunderbolt Heavy Missiles to be exact).
Really the only thing that I have to worry about when doing these missions, is when I warp in and there is more than 2 energy neutralizing battery things -- if there are 3 -- I can kill all 3, and probably some of the light missile batteries before I have to attempt to warp out because my cap is near empty.
But I had to do that before the patch too, so I see absolutely zero difference in the way it works.
Do I miss the old missile system? No not really, because I don't pvp with missiles. Do I miss the nano? no not really, because I always died to them when I did pvp with missiles..
while I don't agree with the extent of the 'nerf' that has happened I can see the call to nerf the missiles a little bit.
They nerf'd the nano, which means if even 2 people go against a single nano ship with the same setup as before the patch, and they get scrammed/webbed -- their speed is significantly lower thus making them dust, and giving that missile boat captain the upper hand because now that person can't move fast enough to dodge your missiles and so you're doing killer damage to them..
Now one thing I don't think they should have done, is make it so that the MWD shuts off -- why you may ask? While I just barely got to even being able to use a MWD (drakes don't need them really), when I did employ a MWD on a ship, I would use it as a get-away -- if i got caught in a bubble, or was scrammed or webbed or even two of the three, or all of the above -- the MWD was a method of escape to better prepare myself for battle.
So when I read the patch notes (the pdf file they had) while the patch was being deployed, there was a lot of nerf's making the game worse, there were some making the game better. But where is the escape hatch now? When reading the patch notes, i read that when the MWD shuts off -- in order to escape you have to slow-boat it out of range so you can warp away.
However, say I'm in a BS and my MWD shuts off and i have to slow boat it away. How am i supposed to do that if the people who have engaged me move 3 times the speed I do?
this post is purely inquizzitive, and informational. It is not an attack against anyone, including CCP (though I do think the nerf's need to be looked at and scrutinized a bit)
|
Kerfira
|
Posted - 2008.11.15 09:17:00 -
[556]
Originally by: Minsc
Originally by: 0k00l
Thank you, CCP.
Any questions? I'm about to cancel my 2 account subscription.
Caldari never give up!
I have some. Why would you fit Seige launchers while ratting in a 0.1 in empire? Expecting a juicy battleship spawn or something.
Also...did you think up that fail fit on your own or did someone help you?
Yeah, that fit is just about the worst-for-purpose I've seen in a long time!
Its user has obviously been too used to abusing the previously broken missile mechanics, and hasn't got an penny's worth of ability to adapt.
The last line is also kinda funny. First he threaten to quit, then say caldari never quits
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
|
0k00l
Caldari
SOLAR SWIFTS
Varangians.
|
Posted - 2008.11.15 09:43:00 -
[557]
The link to KM I posted is provided by my mate, Hu Compassionate - he poped this pure gallente BS. I never flawn anything else than caldari ships. My best ships (PVP and PVE) are Cerberus and Raven. |
Daitanfutekina Unsoya
|
Posted - 2008.11.15 15:34:00 -
[558]
Indeed, before the patch missile pvp seemed possible, bs missiles worked against bs, and if you wanted good affect against smaller targets you brought painters.
Now painters are Required, Massive ammounts of webification, which after this patch isnt possible.
and that point to stop your target from running.
all this is possible on a gun/droneship
none of this is possible on a shield tank ship unless, you fit
(1)Injector
(2)Pith X XL
(3)DG invul
(4)DG invul
(5)point
(6)web
(7)web (again)
(8)web (it still wont let you hit anything small)
(9)painter
(10)another painter...
Even then with a 3 slot tank and 7 slots of tackle the smaller class ships are still untouchable.
Assuming thats 3x gal navy webs thats.. 85% to web @ 14km and around 50% paint.
and I don't know many 10 slot solo pwnmobile shield tanking torp fitted battleships.. you?
The devs did about 300% to far with the nerfing this patch.
150% with a frigate buff would've been fine.
...
|
Overbrain
|
Posted - 2008.11.15 16:06:00 -
[559]
This is just too much, i have quit eve before but returned afterwards because i have meet new people and it was fun to play again .
But once again , aside from the joy of having friends, eve itself has become a chore. Even though im an amarr&caldari player and if one gets nerfed im able to play with other. The problem for me isnt that.
Its the player base constantly complaining about ccp's incapability to balance this game, and that unhappyness is reflected everywhere.
Im tired of seeing complaints about these patches both ingame and in forum , it just cant be that ccp is doing it all right, they must be mistaking somewhere repeatedly.
Its not fun to be part of a game comunity full of complaints anymore . We DONT have to play eve do we ?
The purpose of playing games were supposed to be "for fun" .
If you are complaining so much with the changes here and there , you must ask yourself now that eve is not what you want and you shouldnt hope for it to become what you want either, but instead be done with it.
Maybe we should rebalance our purpose of being here and compare it with the result, instead of expecting ccp to rebalance game.
Im now seriously considering to leave this game, leaving all those alliances/items/skills behind as its actualy a tool to hold me in this game, which i dont enjoy playing anymore.
I advise everyone to do the same. Your feelings is whats important, not your skillpoints or virtual items which constantly lose its value everytime ccp patches.
|
Cpt Branko
Surge.
|
Posted - 2008.11.15 16:20:00 -
[560]
Originally by: Daitanfutekina Unsoya
Indeed, before the patch missile pvp seemed possible, bs missiles worked against bs, and if you wanted good affect against smaller targets you brought painters.
Now painters are Required, Massive ammounts of webification, which after this patch isnt possible.
and that point to stop your target from running.
all this is possible on a gun/droneship
I have no idea which gunship can fit MWD,disruptor (else you dont tackle **** and lose out of webrange capability completely), scrambler (else you can't stop MWDs) + 3x web, TP (to get back to old turret tracking values with a single 90% web). That takes 7 stinking midslots.
I could argue about a sensor booster so you can actually catch same size targets properly, which is a massive problem post QR for non-frig hulls. So make that 8.
Basically, it's not missile or turret PVP which is in trouble, it's solo/very small gang which is really shafted by massively reducing the tackle capabilities of any single ship.
|
Haniblecter Teg
|
Posted - 2008.11.15 16:33:00 -
[561]
Originally by: Pedro Snachez
I fly a Kronos with pretty much maxed out gunnery and I needed to fit 2 Shadow Serp tracking comps and a domination web to be able to hit cruisers and frigs orbiting me. Let me just say that the whines about your max-dps Ravens/Golems having issues killing smaller ships warms me inside. Welcome to how the rest of the mission-running world does things. And by does things, I mean "uses their brains".
1. Use drones.
2. Use Target painters.
3. Go a little lighter on the unnecessary perma-run booster setups.
4. Profit.
Sorry you can't do missions on braindead afk mode anymore.
Pow! Bye Bye afk caldari tards. |
Khamal Jolstien
Caldari
Product Number 3
|
Posted - 2008.11.15 19:33:00 -
[562]
Originally by: Daitanfutekina Unsoya
Indeed, before the patch missile pvp seemed possible, bs missiles worked against bs, and if you wanted good affect against smaller targets you brought painters.
Now painters are Required, Massive ammounts of webification, which after this patch isnt possible.
and that point to stop your target from running.
all this is possible on a gun/droneship
none of this is possible on a shield tank ship unless, you fit
(1)Injector
(2)Pith X XL
(3)DG invul
(4)DG invul
(5)point
(6)web
(7)web (again)
(8)web (it still wont let you hit anything small)
(9)painter
(10)another painter...
Even then with a 3 slot tank and 7 slots of tackle the smaller class ships are still untouchable.
Assuming thats 3x gal navy webs thats.. 85% to web @ 14km and around 50% paint.
and I don't know many 10 slot solo pwnmobile shield tanking torp fitted battleships.. you?
The devs did about 300% to far with the nerfing this patch.
150% with a frigate buff would've been fine.
...
See. I'm glad I'm not the only one who sees just how ridicilous this all is. |
Cpt Lollercakes
Warriors of COAD
|
Posted - 2008.11.15 20:04:00 -
[563]
I have been told, by a reliable source, that some guy called MAX (Identifiable by his pink, furry cowboy hat) ate all the missiles in eve. Every last one. Then poo'd in ammo can in eve. This fits nicely with the enormous number of people posting about how their "missiles are sh*t now". |
Flybye
Rex Tech Industries
|
Posted - 2008.11.15 22:23:00 -
[564]
I dunno. I'm using a Raven with 6xArbalests and 1 CNBCS and constantly using all rat specific drones and cruisers. Although I did notice a slightly less amount of damage with the cruisers, it seriously hasn't been that painful for me to come home and cry about. TBH, my drones almost feel stronger against them now.
|
Opertone
Caldari
SIEGE.
United Legion
|
Posted - 2008.11.15 23:53:00 -
[565]
torpedoes do not hit battleships for full damage with a target painter... neither do cruise...
am i supposed to do it in my drake? or to go into 15 km range, while my ships is built for the long range?
I love the nano slow down, frigate boost part... but I do not understand why missiles needed to be nerfed further.
All battleships essentially became less viable in PVP, while HACs can now take less damage by speed and by size. Stealth HAC boost, obvious AF boost, blatant BS nerf. |
The Dr4gon
|
Posted - 2008.11.16 00:03:00 -
[566]
Omg, you mean people are actually going to have to take their skills in missiles up in order to hit smaller targets, or use smaller missiles to do it. What a concept. This wasn't a nerf, it was CCP saying 'if you want to hit smaller targets, then use the correct missile type to do it.' But to those who wish to continue to complain, there's one easy solution, if you want your cruise missiles to do as much damage as they did pre-patch to smaller targets, use a bomber. Otherwise, use a smaller missile like you should be.
|
Gamesguy
Amarr
Black Nova Corp
Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2008.11.16 01:08:00 -
[567]
Originally by: Opertone
torpedoes do not hit battleships for full damage with a target painter... neither do cruise...
am i supposed to do it in my drake? or to go into 15 km range, while my ships is built for the long range?
I love the nano slow down, frigate boost part... but I do not understand why missiles needed to be nerfed further.
All battleships essentially became less viable in PVP, while HACs can now take less damage by speed and by size. Stealth HAC boost, obvious AF boost, blatant BS nerf.
Thats because you're an idiot.
Pre-missile nerf, ABs did basically nothing against missiles. A cruise raven would **** an ABing frigate quite easilly. This is why missiles needed a nerf.
If you're not hitting a painted BS for full damage with cruise, you need to seriously train up some support skills.
Drakes are built for long range? Really? Where is the range bonus again? |
Lone Hitman
|
Posted - 2008.11.16 03:08:00 -
[568]
It seems the Golem is still viable with Cruise Launchers if you use standard or faction missiles. Don't use t2 cruise fury missiles; they end up hitting for less damage. Here's a well-balanced fit that doesn't have the nice old DPS with siege javelin missiles, but doesn't do badly, considering the nerf:
 Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.
Raven Navy Issue can do more DPS with a similar build, but it uses up ammo too quickly to be worth loading faction missiles, and the tank isn't as solid. |
Ohmy Fugod
|
Posted - 2008.11.16 03:34:00 -
[569]
Originally by: Gamesguy
If you're not hitting a painted BS for full damage with cruise, you need to seriously train up some support skills.
An NPC battleship, say, a Raven, has a Sig Radius of 300+.
I also think there's barely any player BS with a rad of 300 or less.
Now, a cruise missile has a basic explosion radius of 300.
And an (now) basic explosion velocity of 69 m/s.
Let's say you "seriously trained up some support skills", like guided missile precision and target navigation prediction all the way to V.
This means your missile has an expl. rad of 225m, and an explo velocity of 103.5m.
But the problem here is, that that npc BS is going at 160m/s.
Please explain how would a target painter help here, when the explosion radius was never a problem to begin with. |
Khamal Jolstien
Caldari
Product Number 3
|
Posted - 2008.11.16 04:28:00 -
[570]
Originally by: The Dr4gon
Omg, you mean people are actually going to have to take their skills in missiles up in order to hit smaller targets, or use smaller missiles to do it. What a concept. This wasn't a nerf, it was CCP saying 'if you want to hit smaller targets, then use the correct missile type to do it.' But to those who wish to continue to complain, there's one easy solution, if you want your cruise missiles to do as much damage as they did pre-patch to smaller targets, use a bomber. Otherwise, use a smaller missile like you should be.
No, what CCP is saying that 'missiles already have a bunch shortcomings! Here're some more!'
Missiles sucked before the nerf, with versatility being their redeeming quality. Now it's just worse all around. |
Lone Hitman
|
Posted - 2008.11.16 04:29:00 -
[571]
Originally by: Ohmy Fugod
But the problem here is, that that npc BS is going at 160m/s.
Please explain how would a target painter help here, when the explosion radius was never a problem to begin with.
Perhaps a webbing drone would help, then? Berserker SW-900. |
Ohmy Fugod
|
Posted - 2008.11.16 04:40:00 -
[572]
Originally by: Lone Hitman
Perhaps a webbing drone would help, then? Berserker SW-900.
Bingo, mine was a rethorical question anyway, you see, everyone and their dogs are repeating: "fit a painter" "train up those missile support skills" like a broken record, but hardly anyone mentioned webifiers.
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
Quod Natura non dat, Salmantica non praesta |
Pr1ncess Alia
Caldari
Perkone
|
Posted - 2008.11.16 04:47:00 -
[573]
Originally by: Ohmy Fugod
Originally by: Lone Hitman
Perhaps a webbing drone would help, then? Berserker SW-900.
Bingo, mine was a rethorical question anyway, you see, everyone and their dogs are repeating: "fit a painter" "train up those missile support skills" like a broken record, but hardly anyone mentioned webifiers.
i can't see anyone wanting to use up valuable drone bay space for ONE webby drone. he isn't going to do much alone and you need the rest of your space for lights when those friggys get in close. |
Karl Luckner
|
Posted - 2008.11.16 05:50:00 -
[574]
Webs were mentioned, but maybe not direktly. Someone posted something along the lines of "should I go in close combat to hit for full damage ? ..."
That pretty much implies, he understood the need for a webber. |
Ohmy Fugod
|
Posted - 2008.11.16 07:08:00 -
[575]
Originally by: Pr1ncess Alia
i can't see anyone wanting to use up valuable drone bay space for ONE webby drone. he isn't going to do much alone and you need the rest of your space for lights when those friggys get in close.
Well, that's the problem. On one hand you can carry 2 webs + 5 lights in a Raven's hold. You would though be sacrificing the 5 meds, of course. Which would leave your lights + nerfed cruises Vs medium targets.
And if those medium targets are, for instance, 20 to 30km-orbitting, 240 m/s HAC's, vs which your pre-nerf cruises were already dealing less than 100hp/missile, then you *will* spend hours trying to nail them. They also got high thrm and kin resists, so no, not even hybrids are a solution.
But, even more so, if you just ignore webifying drones, then cruise missiles or torps are not even close to being an anti-battleship weapon.
Thus, bottom line is, you can train up a crapload of skills, and switch gear around a plenty, and still you'll be miles away from the versatility/effectiveness/efficiency missile boats used to have.
I just see this nerf messed with a part of the player community that actually just minded their own business and bothered no one. That particular portion is not a small one, but is indeed a quiet one.
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
Quod Natura non dat, Salmantica non praesta |
Hornymatt
|
Posted - 2008.11.16 08:12:00 -
[576]
Got no problems with the missile changes myself - probably because I'm having fun tinkering with various set ups for the first time in ages.
However, it does seem to me that NPC's have been exempted from the changes as thier cruises are hitting my HACs for the same as before.
Anyone know if this was intended (couldn't see anything in the official notes) or if it's like when NPC's were still able to MWD in deadspace? |
Khamal Jolstien
Caldari
Product Number 3
|
Posted - 2008.11.16 08:45:00 -
[577]
Originally by: Hornymatt
Got no problems with the missile changes myself - probably because I'm having fun tinkering with various set ups for the first time in ages.
However, it does seem to me that NPC's have been exempted from the changes as thier cruises are hitting my HACs for the same as before.
Anyone know if this was intended (couldn't see anything in the official notes) or if it's like when NPC's were still able to MWD in deadspace?
I think so. It seems NPCs follow their own rule set, and their weapon behaviors haven't really followed the player changes/nerfs. |
Gamesguy
Amarr
Black Nova Corp
Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2008.11.16 10:31:00 -
[578]
Edited by: Gamesguy on 16/11/2008 10:31:58
Originally by: Ohmy Fugod
Edited by: Ohmy Fugod on 16/11/2008 03:51:37
Originally by: Gamesguy
If you're not hitting a painted BS for full damage with cruise, you need to seriously train up some support skills.
An NPC battleship, say, a Raven, has a Sig Radius of 300+.
I also think there's barely any player BS with a rad of 300 or less.
Now, a cruise missile has a basic explosion radius of 300.
And an (now) basic explosion velocity of 69 m/s.
Let's say you "seriously trained up some support skills", like guided missile precision and target navigation prediction all the way to V.
This means your missile has an expl. rad of 225m, and an explo velocity of 103.5m.
But the problem here is, that that npc BS is going at 160m/s.
Please explain how would a target painter help here, when the explosion radius was never a problem to begin with.
Because dumbasses like you didn't realize the missile formula has changed. You've obviously haven't actually tested this or you'd know how ignorant you are.
The missile formula is more like the turret formula now, but with more weight towards signature radius. Go test it yourself and realize how you are whining about nothing.
|
Al Drevika
|
Posted - 2008.11.16 19:31:00 -
[579]
Originally by: Cpt Branko
Basically, it's not missile or turret PVP which is in trouble, it's solo/very small gang which is really shafted by massively reducing the tackle capabilities of any single ship.
I think you hit the nail EXACTLY on the head and got to the heart of what CCP is trying to do. Do I like it? No, I don't play enough to form lifelong relationships with my corp mates, be there for their children's birth (even when they're not there, away running Worlds Collide while their wife is screaming 'where the f*** is he?'). Every corp I join tends to collapse in 3-4 months because of the lenient corp war rules.
There are a few major tenets to EVE that make it unique (say, compared to WoW):
- A true MMORG economy.
- Exploration as a career option
- A more open-ended focus for corporations/guilds (production, pvp, merc, mining, etc).
- HiSec/LowSec differentiation
I think CCP has focused too much on PvP and technology balances and not enough in the role of how player cooperation can benefit individual players. Face it- we're all individuals. Whether I join a corp or not depends on what it can do for me, in terms of the play experience.
Joint mining is more productive, but lenient corp war rules make it almost not worthwhile compared to NPC corp membership and solo mining. LowSec and 0-sec access? The benefits of low sec just aren't significant enough compared to missioning in high sec. Tempt me. And the nerfing of exploration has turned me away of training for my specops/explorer plan.
Yes, a lot of this circles around to the issue of getting us carebears (shudder at the thought, but that's what I am, I suppose) into lowsec. Make it worth our while. Un-nerf exploration, and make exploration less about finding combat complexes than finding interesting loot you can't get ANYWHERE else. And I mean anywhere else. Or introduce a story arc with the loot- new items that, combined with other rare to find artifacts, combine (like a rig) to create something the major factions would pay dearly for. Give me a chance of striking it big with a few more common episodes of small strikes, and I'll run those gatecamps and do it. Think of the early gold miners that took off, went to Placer, CA and spend years, finding a few small nuggets here and there in hopes of finding the "mother lode." Whole corps could form out of the interest to organize explorers to find these artifacts.
Introduce artifacts that have unique capabilities, with appropriate drawbacks. I don't know how this would stress CCPs item database, but it would be cool, say with the missile nerf, to have an artifact TP with, say, a 60% signature bonus. Introduce some of those and I'd go to lowsec to find a few to sell. You can get rid of the nerf-whiners, and get a twofer!!!
I'm getting to TDLTR territory, so I'll cut it off here and put on the flame-******ant suit. To those who don't agree with me and have nothing substantial to add , I'll just say this: STFU. I don't care to read what you have to say. Say something that adds to the game or shut the piehole.
Thanks for the bandwidth and all the fish.
|
Al Drevika
|
Posted - 2008.11.16 19:32:00 -
[580]
LOL... flame- reta__dant suit is edited? C'mon guys...
OK, flame-RESISTANT suit. Geez...
|
KhaniKirai
|
Posted - 2008.11.16 20:18:00 -
[581]
Edited by: KhaniKirai on 16/11/2008 20:18:18
All I know is, training t2 cruise missiles is waste of time.
And skills + rigs + implants dont overcome those problems.
Even a ferox almost does more dps then cruise raven vs pve bs targets.
|
Opertone
Caldari
SIEGE.
United Legion
|
Posted - 2008.11.16 23:30:00 -
[582]
missiles need a boost
|
UD549
|
Posted - 2008.11.16 23:45:00 -
[583]
Yes, my plan is going perfect. Let them think the raven is now horrible at running missions to destroy the next ship on the nerf chart....THE AFK DOMI IS OP CCP, SWING THE NERF BAT AT IT!!!1!!1
|
Grarr Dexx
Amarr
The Cosa Nostra
La Cosa Nostra Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.11.16 23:51:00 -
[584]
Originally by: Opertone
missiles need a boost
Hits head against wall
|
Opertone
Caldari
SIEGE.
United Legion
|
Posted - 2008.11.17 02:11:00 -
[585]
with current system missiles could use + 20% explo velocity boost, so they can be viable on non caldari ships.
something has to do be done about very low explosion velocity, but the new systems works, not perfectly yet, so there is still the need for fixes. |
Depopulo
|
Posted - 2008.11.17 02:56:00 -
[586]
Originally by: Gamesguy
Edited by: Gamesguy on 16/11/2008 10:31:58
Originally by: Ohmy Fugod
Edited by: Ohmy Fugod on 16/11/2008 03:51:37
Originally by: Gamesguy
If you're not hitting a painted BS for full damage with cruise, you need to seriously train up some support skills.
An NPC battleship, say, a Raven, has a Sig Radius of 300+.
I also think there's barely any player BS with a rad of 300 or less.
Now, a cruise missile has a basic explosion radius of 300.
And an (now) basic explosion velocity of 69 m/s.
Let's say you "seriously trained up some support skills", like guided missile precision and target navigation prediction all the way to V.
This means your missile has an expl. rad of 225m, and an explo velocity of 103.5m.
But the problem here is, that that npc BS is going at 160m/s.
Please explain how would a target painter help here, when the explosion radius was never a problem to begin with.
Because dumbasses like you didn't realize the missile formula has changed. You've obviously haven't actually tested this or you'd know how ignorant you are.
The missile formula is more like the turret formula now, but with more weight towards signature radius. Go test it yourself and realize how you are whining about nothing.
No..he's not a dumbass..he has a valid point. On a recent ratting excursion with my Torp raven..as long as the NPC BS's were flying under 100 m/sec I would hit for about 315 per torp due to my Torp explosion velocity being around 98 m/sec. When they reached their max speed of 135 m/sec I was hitting the same NPC BS's for about 230 per torp. I just can't stomach the fact that a BS can outrun the explosion speed of a torp warhead. I have target nav prediction at 4. even at 5 they will still outrun. I hope CCP address's this somehow. |
Ahmai Skarilukn
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2008.11.17 03:44:00 -
[587]
Originally by: Hermiat
Originally by: Nameless Soldier
Cry more please. Delicious tears.
Oh, oh, how VERY original. No one has said this yet! OK nameless soldier, i'll give u a name...... how about....... brainless fukwit?
Oh, oh, i know i'll use the very tired "Tears" line once again shall i?
dude.. your shoulders... |
Khamal Jolstien
Caldari
Product Number 3
|
Posted - 2008.11.17 20:41:00 -
[588]
Originally by: Grarr Dexx
Originally by: Opertone
missiles need a boost
Hits head against wall
Kind of a silly thing to do when he's right.
|
Ahmai Skarilukn
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2008.11.17 21:48:00 -
[589]
As compelled by some of these emoragequits as I am, there is one significant thing you lack to have anything done. A 60 page whine thread.
Amarr had one, and look, they're ending up as the new FOTM!!! Maybe if moar people ragewhine about the missile nerf/change/sploit etc. something will happen!!!
On a lighter note, can i has ur stuff?
|
Black Scorpio
|
Posted - 2008.11.17 21:55:00 -
[590]
Originally by: Ahmai Skarilukn
As compelled by some of these emoragequits as I am, there is one significant thing you lack to have anything done. A 60 page whine thread.
Amarr had one, and look, they're ending up as the new FOTM!!! Maybe if moar people ragewhine about the missile nerf/change/sploit etc. something will happen!!!
On a lighter note, can i has ur stuff?
I don't want the misiles to be the new FOTM, just to be in line with other weapon systems in terms of usefulnes. Seems like things there are "adjusted" on the negative sides only, i.e. making them in-line with the drawbacks of the other weapon systems, but nothing on the positive side.
|
Gamesguy
Amarr
Black Nova Corp
Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2008.11.18 00:10:00 -
[591]
Originally by: Depopulo
No..he's not a dumbass..he has a valid point. On a recent ratting excursion with my Torp raven..as long as the NPC BS's were flying under 100 m/sec I would hit for about 315 per torp due to my Torp explosion velocity being around 98 m/sec. When they reached their max speed of 135 m/sec I was hitting the same NPC BS's for about 230 per torp. I just can't stomach the fact that a BS can outrun the explosion speed of a torp warhead. I have target nav prediction at 4. even at 5 they will still outrun. I hope CCP address's this somehow.
Have you checked your torp's explosion radius vs the NPC's sig radius yet?
Fit a damn painter. |
Khamal Jolstien
Caldari
Product Number 3
|
Posted - 2008.11.19 07:00:00 -
[592]
Originally by: Black Scorpio
Originally by: Ahmai Skarilukn
As compelled by some of these emoragequits as I am, there is one significant thing you lack to have anything done. A 60 page whine thread.
Amarr had one, and look, they're ending up as the new FOTM!!! Maybe if moar people ragewhine about the missile nerf/change/sploit etc. something will happen!!!
On a lighter note, can i has ur stuff?
I don't want the misiles to be the new FOTM, just to be in line with other weapon systems in terms of usefulnes. Seems like things there are "adjusted" on the negative sides only, i.e. making them in-line with the drawbacks of the other weapon systems, but nothing on the positive side.
This is the exact same experience I'm getting. Hopefully a fix will be released soon.
|
Al Drevika
|
Posted - 2008.11.19 15:21:00 -
[593]
Exactly. THat's the point. You should be able to use a torp against a BS with reasonable effectiveness, and a torp with supporting skills and a target painter against a cruiser with SOME level of effectiveness. For now, I have refit my CNR with heavy missile launchers, which is a total waste of powergrid. I'm using the Raven over the Drake just for the sake of more drone capacity, that's pretty much it.
That's a lot of ISK to pay for 50m3 more drones. It just makes me feel stupid every time I undock in it, but what choice does CCP give me? I need the drones for the extra gank, since I've been nerfed so bad. |
Thudin
|
Posted - 2008.11.19 15:31:00 -
[594]
Originally by: Al Drevika
Exactly. THat's the point. You should be able to use a torp against a BS with reasonable effectiveness, and a torp with supporting skills and a target painter against a cruiser with SOME level of effectiveness. For now, I have refit my CNR with heavy missile launchers, which is a total waste of powergrid. I'm using the Raven over the Drake just for the sake of more drone capacity, that's pretty much it.
That's a lot of ISK to pay for 50m3 more drones. It just makes me feel stupid every time I undock in it, but what choice does CCP give me? I need the drones for the extra gank, since I've been nerfed so bad.
At a complete loss as to why people are refitting their Gravy Navens when better drone skills and knowing how to use them properly makes the CNR the same killing machine it was. |
Empyre
Domestic Reform
|
Posted - 2008.11.19 15:36:00 -
[595]
I just re-subscribed for a month to check eve out on my new graphics card so I haven't run too many missions. But I ran a guristas WC the other night and I didn't see much difference in how quickly I could clear the NPCS.
I did notice I got barely any loot and salvage at all from them. Very little at all. I won't be letting the subscription continue to go.
|
Karille
Gallente
Lordless
|
Posted - 2008.11.19 15:37:00 -
[596]
Originally by: Black Scorpio
I don't want the misiles to be the new FOTM, just to be in line with other weapon systems in terms of usefulnes. Seems like things there are "adjusted" on the negative sides only, i.e. making them in-line with the drawbacks of the other weapon systems, but nothing on the positive side.
Positive side:
No close range tracking issues
Any damage type you want
FOF
Can't be tracking disrupted (yes we all know about defenders) |
Riga Mortiss
|
Posted - 2008.11.19 17:59:00 -
[597]
I.. for one.. would dearly love to know if CCP is even considering revisiting the whole missile issue.. Whether it is a "Yes we are looking at a possible restructure" or "NO.. Missile stay as is.. deal with it" response.
That would be a thing of much goodness..
|
Al Drevika
|
Posted - 2008.11.19 18:05:00 -
[598]
Originally by: Empyre
I did notice I got barely any loot and salvage at all from them. Very little at all. I won't be letting the subscription continue to go.
Yes, I noticed that, too. I can't figure out what CCP is thinking at this point.
|
Furb Killer
Gallente
The Scope
|
Posted - 2008.11.19 18:13:00 -
[599]
Originally by: Riga Mortiss
I.. for one.. would dearly love to know if CCP is even considering revisiting the whole missile issue.. Whether it is a "Yes we are looking at a possible restructure" or "NO.. Missile stay as is.. deal with it" response.
That would be a thing of much goodness..
Considering people who do use drones do missions at same speed as before, i dont think missiles will be boosted... |
Haakelen
Gallente
Fire Mandrill
|
Posted - 2008.11.19 18:17:00 -
[600]
Originally by: Riga Mortiss
I.. for one.. would dearly love to know if CCP is even considering revisiting the whole missile issue.. Whether it is a "Yes we are looking at a possible restructure" or "NO.. Missile stay as is.. deal with it" response.
That would be a thing of much goodness..
Missiles are fine. It is you that is broken.
|
Al Drevika
|
Posted - 2008.11.19 18:51:00 -
[601]
Originally by: Furb Killer
Considering people who do use drones do missions at same speed as before, i dont think missiles will be boosted...
SHHHH!!! Don't say anything, or CCP will nerf drones!
Oh wait, I've just heard they did that, too.
|
Empyre
Domestic Reform
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 02:27:00 -
[602]
Originally by: Al Drevika
Originally by: Empyre
I did notice I got barely any loot and salvage at all from them. Very little at all. I won't be letting the subscription continue to go.
Yes, I noticed that, too. I can't figure out what CCP is thinking at this point.
Yeah, especially since they're on video from the fanfest saying that mission loot contributes to the mineral market but they've observed no problems with it.
With X3: TC out among the MMO masters and contenders, I don't have any reason to stick around while they're trying to do whatever is they're trying to accomplish with this. I used to love Eve but this quite plain and simply makes my chosen profession not even worth the time to log in anymore.
Destroy all that which is evil, so that which is good may flourish. |
Lady Karma
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 02:51:00 -
[603]
The price of Caldari Mission running tears has plummeted this lask week.
Supply has outstripped demand by some margin. Boost the range of tractor beams so they can smile again pls ccp
|
AkRoYeR
Amarr
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 02:53:00 -
[604]
Signed.
|
Rothgar Detris
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 05:39:00 -
[605]
Will somebody PLEASE explain to me the rationale behind this missile nerf, becuase I just don't get it.
My primary concern is in missioning, not PVP/Fleet-battles/etc. And this patch seems to only have addressed and considered that. Missioning, unlike the others, requires pilots to face a WIDE VARIETY of different ships AT THE SAME TIME, usually BY YOURSELF. The rewards are NOT enough to encorage teams for lvl 1-3's or even most 4's. This "only one missile per class of ships" is absolute BULL**** for missioning. I mean, WTF, am I expected to use 3-4 different ships/launchers for every pocket/spawn, just so I can do enough dmg to kill EACH ship type? Are we now requiring ppl to spend 3-4 MONTHS just to train up enough to maybe take on a simple LVL 3 mission? WHat's next, 1 and half years and 16 mill SP to be good enough for a (t2) BS and lvl 4's?
I would appreciate a MATURE (read "non-sarcastic/flaming") response.
|
Lady Karma
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 05:54:00 -
[606]
Edited by: Lady Karma on 20/11/2008 05:55:08
Originally by: Rothgar Detris
I would appreciate a MATURE (read "non-sarcastic/flaming") response.
You seem to have no idea how it is for people that don't fly ravens to run missions.
3 month old raven pilots with minimal skills farming missions faster than 1 year old tempest pilots is a clue that maybe you had it a little too easy. Ask yourself why the majority of mission runners fly cruise ravens.
Helpful hint: train up your drone skills
|
Rothgar Detris
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 06:53:00 -
[607]
I do understand since I don't fly a Raven, I fly Drake. I have good skills for t2 Light and Med Drones. But as most ppl know, you can't really use drones most of the time, especially in missions that have reinforcement/multi-spawns. I DO have the skills for a Raven, just hadn't found the need for it yet.
Still, I'd like an explanation of the rationale behing this huge nerf.
|
Tortun Nahme
Minmatar
Umbra Synergy
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 06:57:00 -
[608]
because you touch yourself at night
|
Karille
Gallente
Lordless
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 08:19:00 -
[609]
Originally by: Rothgar Detris
But as most ppl know, you can't really use drones most of the time, especially in missions that have reinforcement/multi-spawns.
I suppose that's why I run level 4 missions using nothing but drones? You're right, most of the time I sit there and use mind bullets to kill new spawns.
The rationale is that missile ships could hit small things way better than they were supposed to. They have been brought in line with other weapons in this aspect.
|
Davlos
Omerta Syndicate
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 10:12:00 -
[610]
I don't mind the nano nerf. Assault Frigs are uber now. :D Missile nerf? Wunderbar.
---
Originally by: Revan Neferis
Scientific category of gravitation fields and velocity is force....
|
Tippia
Caldari
Raddick Explorations
BlackWater.
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 10:18:00 -
[611]
Originally by: Rothgar Detris
But as most ppl know, you can't really use drones most of the time, especially in missions that have reinforcement/multi-spawns.
I think you'll find that, if this is the case, then "most people" are wrong.
I fly a Myrmidon when I do L4s — you know that cute little battlecruiser which relies on drones for more than half its damage output? The last time I lost a drone in a mission was in July — I've learned to control them since then. Reinforcements are not a problem. |
KhaniKirai
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 11:41:00 -
[612]
Drones in missions, cause often added aggro from multiple spawns.
The drones being further out then your ship, activate nearby aggressive spawns in several missions.
As shield tanker, you really dont want that.
Shieldtanking is less cap efficient then armor tanking, but its better to heal up quick, then take break and reload cap.
Thats not really a good option, if you have multiple spawns aggro you already, due to using drones.
|
Tippia
Caldari
Raddick Explorations
BlackWater.
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 11:46:00 -
[613]
Originally by: KhaniKirai
Drones in missions, cause often added aggro from multiple spawns.
The drones being further out then your ship, activate nearby aggressive spawns in several missions.
So control your drones and keep them from doing that.
Quote:
As shield tanker, you really dont want that.
Depends how you're shield tanking. If you PST, it's sometimes a lot easier to just get all the aggro at once so you don't have to manage it and go watch TV while the rats get themselves killed…
Quote:
Shieldtanking is less cap efficient then armor tanking, but its better to heal up quick, then take break and reload cap.
Shieldtanking also allows you to tank without using any cap at all. That's kind of convenient.
No sig for me, thankyouverymuch. |
Kia Corallis
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 11:55:00 -
[614]
Originally by: Khamal Jolstien
Originally by: Kiotsu Adler
lol at ravenfggs. it's called: nighthawk, cerberus, drake. pick one.
Those are also awful at the moment.
But then again a manticore seems unaffected and kicks butt better than my raven or rokh ?
Must be using the old rules, 1 shot 1 kill with frigs ?
missions are still easy, amarr BS tanks as they do and Manticore comes in after and kills all frigs etc that he can't even scare a little.
Yes missiles are nerfed to **** but it is no doubt worse for solo players, LvL 4 missions now have to be done differantly, they are still do able |
Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 11:58:00 -
[615]
A good idea in this thread is to take the exact opposite of whatever Khamal Jolstien says. |
Brutimus
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 12:06:00 -
[616]
the people who are whining are talking nonsense im a missle specced raven user and having no issues atall killing my intended targets , yes drones make the job faster but all this boohoo my missles got nerfed gotta stop , i hate saying this but gotta be done L2P ,
love the patch ccp dont listen to these losers who refuse to relearn tactics abit
brutimus |
Kia Corallis
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 12:09:00 -
[617]
guess all of the caldari pilots are annoyed we have been nerfed, I would guess it has happened to all the races at some point, something that gets good gets nerfed to make everyone change or rethink tactics, must be too many caldari pilots about.
So who is gonna get nerfed next, amarr armor tanking seems a lot better than shield tanking..........wait for it
|
Kaivos
Caldari
Pyydys
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 12:41:00 -
[618]
Originally by: Rothgar Detris
Will somebody PLEASE explain to me the rationale behind this missile nerf, becuase I just don't get it.
My primary concern is in missioning, not PVP/Fleet-battles/etc. And this patch seems to only have addressed and considered that. Missioning, unlike the others, requires pilots to face a WIDE VARIETY of different ships AT THE SAME TIME, usually BY YOURSELF. The rewards are NOT enough to encorage teams for lvl 1-3's or even most 4's. This "only one missile per class of ships" is absolute BULL**** for missioning. I mean, WTF, am I expected to use 3-4 different ships/launchers for every pocket/spawn, just so I can do enough dmg to kill EACH ship type? Are we now requiring ppl to spend 3-4 MONTHS just to train up enough to maybe take on a simple LVL 3 mission? WHat's next, 1 and half years and 16 mill SP to be good enough for a (t2) BS and lvl 4's?
I would appreciate a MATURE (read "non-sarcastic/flaming") response.
this
|
Rothgar Detris
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 20:38:00 -
[619]
Still waiting.. |
Karille
Gallente
Lordless
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 20:57:00 -
[620]
Originally by: Rothgar Detris
Still waiting..
I suppose that's why I run level 4 missions using nothing but drones? You're right, most of the time I sit there and use mind bullets to kill new spawns.
The rationale is that missile ships could hit small things way better than they were supposed to. They have been brought in line with other weapons in this aspect.
Double post, GET!
|
dojocan81
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 21:07:00 -
[621]
Edited by: dojocan81 on 20/11/2008 21:09:20
Well, for what i have read so far, i think, that most of the people here do not understand the main issue with missiles in missions ...
Its not the missiles itself, b/c they are working "fine" on the paper!
Its the amount of small npc ships you've to encounter in lvl 4 missions at all, where your preferd Large weapon system (cruises & torps) do not work at all...
replace the smaller npc ships in missions with larger ones ... and all missiles will work absolutly fine
|
Karille
Gallente
Lordless
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 21:09:00 -
[622]
Drones, They're grrrrrrrrreat!
|
Khamal Jolstien
Caldari
Product Number 3
|
Posted - 2008.11.21 00:56:00 -
[623]
Originally by: Karille
Originally by: Rothgar Detris
Still waiting..
I suppose that's why I run level 4 missions using nothing but drones? You're right, most of the time I sit there and use mind bullets to kill new spawns.
The rationale is that missile ships could hit small things way better than they were supposed to. They have been brought in line with other weapons in this aspect.
Double post, GET!
Missile ship could hit smaller types because they were a general purpose weapon. Good at a bunch of things, but not the best in anything. The problem with this argument is that it removes the main reason to use missiles while not adding any other meaningful reasons.
Missiles weren't uber to begin with. They weren't out of line with other weapon systems because *gasp* they were different. Now they're just missiles with all the turret drawbacks on top of its own. |
Opertone
Caldari
SIEGE.
|
Posted - 2008.11.21 01:38:00 -
[624]
i am happy with TORPs vs BS in missions, ok with BC and cruisers
HACs, AFs, Interceptors make me mad; i want missiles to be useful at all ranges in PVP.
turrets have always performed better than missiles, drones are still more versatile than missiles.
explosion velocities are too low, need a 25% boost at least, new formula does work |
Opertone
Caldari
SIEGE.
|
Posted - 2008.11.21 01:40:00 -
[625]
Edited by: Opertone on 21/11/2008 01:40:50
double post is wrong, missiles can improve |
Djan Anaplian
Gallente
Reikoku
Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2008.11.21 02:22:00 -
[626]
Originally by: Opertone
i am happy with TORPs vs BS in missions, ok with BC and cruisers
HACs, AFs, Interceptors make me mad; i want missiles to be useful at all ranges in PVP.
turrets have always performed better than missiles, drones are still more versatile than missiles.
explosion velocities are too low, need a 25% boost at least, new formula does work
too low? are you high? even heavy missiles hit ceptors now....... |
Soporo
Caldari
|
Posted - 2008.11.21 03:44:00 -
[627]
Quote:
too low? are you high? even heavy missiles hit ceptors now.......
Hits for ludicrous damage you mean. Once people stop hauling ass all over with a pre-QR perma mwd fit they'll find out.
It's not suprising that people are unhappy. Missiles and Shield tanking were never the be all end all of pvp, they are currently both flat worse off.
Oh, and lol solo pvp now.
|
Al Drevika
|
Posted - 2008.11.22 16:56:00 -
[628]
Originally by: dojocan81
replace the smaller npc ships in missions with larger ones ... and all missiles will work absolutly fine
That's the best idea yet. OK to have one or two web/scrambling frigates, maybe a cruiser or two, but to mix 4 BSs and 8 cruisers and 8 frigates.. well, the frigs aren't much of a problem, and the BSs can be hit by the cruise/torps, but the hard-to-hit cruisers are the problem. I really don't want to warp back to a base and refit my missiles every bloody mission.
Maybe a new ammunition type- a MIRV for cruise launchers that MIRVs into 2 heavy missiles warheads or 5 light missile warheads (at the same target). Let me swap reduced damage for higher expl velocity without swapping launchers.
|
Karille
Gallente
Lordless
|
Posted - 2008.11.22 17:15:00 -
[629]
Originally by: Al Drevika
Originally by: dojocan81
replace the smaller npc ships in missions with larger ones ... and all missiles will work absolutly fine
That's the best idea yet. OK to have one or two web/scrambling frigates, maybe a cruiser or two, but to mix 4 BSs and 8 cruisers and 8 frigates.. well, the frigs aren't much of a problem, and the BSs can be hit by the cruise/torps, but the hard-to-hit cruisers are the problem. I really don't want to warp back to a base and refit my missiles every bloody mission.
Maybe a new ammunition type- a MIRV for cruise launchers that MIRVs into 2 heavy missiles warheads or 5 light missile warheads (at the same target). Let me swap reduced damage for higher expl velocity without swapping launchers.
Does your ship have a drone bay?
|
Hyveres
Caldari
|
Posted - 2008.11.22 18:17:00 -
[630]
Edited by: Hyveres on 22/11/2008 18:21:25
Edited by: Hyveres on 22/11/2008 18:19:11
Edited by: Hyveres on 22/11/2008 18:17:56
Originally by: Karille
Originally by: Al Drevika
Originally by: dojocan81
replace the smaller npc ships in missions with larger ones ... and all missiles will work absolutly fine
That's the best idea yet. OK to have one or two web/scrambling frigates, maybe a cruiser or two, but to mix 4 BSs and 8 cruisers and 8 frigates.. well, the frigs aren't much of a problem, and the BSs can be hit by the cruise/torps, but the hard-to-hit cruisers are the problem. I really don't want to warp back to a base and refit my missiles every bloody mission.
Maybe a new ammunition type- a MIRV for cruise launchers that MIRVs into 2 heavy missiles warheads or 5 light missile warheads (at the same target). Let me swap reduced damage for higher expl velocity without swapping launchers.
Does your ship have a drone bay?
Drones are horribly inefficient.
And caldari ships in general have horrid small drone bays.
Even with 2-3 mill SP in drones which is quite a bit when looking at a secondary weaponsystem it will take 5 T2 light drones 30-60 seconds to drop an "average" elite frigate. And elite cruisers , vs T2 drones is close to 2 minutes if the drones work solo.
Heck most elite NPC cruisers tanks better than 1 mill + bounty battleships. And thats vs cruise missiles not torps.
Cruise already have subpar DPS to more or less any other weapon system , having them made even worse than they used to be is rather "Sad panda".
Ravens and the ships buildt on the raven hull has never been the best ships for anything , but their versatility made them a good all round PvE boat. With the changes to the missilesystem spending SP in missiles when that could be used to build up good turret skills is kinda pointless.
When done right it takes a bit more SP to maximise missile support skills than turretbased ones and the awesome part is that while missile support skills are usefull for khanid & caldari ships and a few others , gunnery support skills are usefull nomatter what race you fly. Heck if the support skills are in place going from no skills at all in that weapontype to T2 guns of a kind is less than 2 months.
Reckon 3-4 months and you can be using T2 hybrids and lasers :)
For a high Perception/will caldari I've found that to be the only way meaning gallente + minmatar ships are the future.
Armourtanking seems to be the way for fleet warfare anyway, also the way most BS gangs operate. So on top of a bad weaponsystem caldari ships are handicapped with inferior defences. Not to mention a general lack of agile ships once you move above frigate hulls.
To elaborate a bit on tanking , to make missiles usefull requires ewar , that ewar will take midslots needed to field an effective shieldtank. And going armourtank removes any semblance of DPS(there is a reason any raven, cnr or golem setup has a minimum of 3 BCUs).
|
Al Drevika
|
Posted - 2008.11.22 18:27:00 -
[631]
Originally by: Hyveres
<snip>
What he said. Great analysis and summary. The issue is cruisers. Drones aren't the solution, and cruise missiles can't hit them for squat anymore. Right now the only solution for L3s is to fit a Raven with heavy launchers and be patient, and for L4s, the solution is warp back and refit, at least for us solo missioners.
Yes, if I teamed up with another ship with a different weapon mix, that would work, I concede that. But there was something nice about being able to challenge yourself by running an L4 solo.
|
Karille
Gallente
Lordless
|
Posted - 2008.11.22 18:35:00 -
[632]
Originally by: Al Drevika
Originally by: Hyveres
<snip>
What he said. Great analysis and summary. The issue is cruisers. Drones aren't the solution, and cruise missiles can't hit them for squat anymore. Right now the only solution for L3s is to fit a Raven with heavy launchers and be patient, and for L4s, the solution is warp back and refit, at least for us solo missioners.
Yes, if I teamed up with another ship with a different weapon mix, that would work, I concede that. But there was something nice about being able to challenge yourself by running an L4 solo.
Not so great analysis or summary. What do you think turret BS pilots have to do when those cruisers or hell anything gets close? Use drones. I sure as hell don't refit a megathron mid mission because I can't hit the cruisers. As for torps, have you ever tried running a mission with blasters? That just plain does not work. It's not little damage, it's zero because nothing they can track gets in range.
|
Hyveres
Caldari
|
Posted - 2008.11.22 18:40:00 -
[633]
Edited by: Hyveres on 22/11/2008 18:41:26
Edited by: Hyveres on 22/11/2008 18:40:26
Originally by: Karille
Originally by: Al Drevika
Originally by: Hyveres
<snip>
What he said. Great analysis and summary. The issue is cruisers. Drones aren't the solution, and cruise missiles can't hit them for squat anymore. Right now the only solution for L3s is to fit a Raven with heavy launchers and be patient, and for L4s, the solution is warp back and refit, at least for us solo missioners.
Yes, if I teamed up with another ship with a different weapon mix, that would work, I concede that. But there was something nice about being able to challenge yourself by running an L4 solo.
Not so great analysis or summary. What do you think turret BS pilots have to do when those cruisers or hell anything gets close? Use drones. I sure as hell don't refit a megathron mid mission because I can't hit the cruisers. As for torps, have you ever tried running a mission with blasters? That just plain does not work. It's not little damage, it's zero because nothing they can track gets in range.
Since most elite cruisers , even bloodraider , sansha and angel ones orbit around 40 km , any setup that includes an AB can dictate transversal and blow them to bits.
At least thats what my amarr alt does. Should be the same other for turrets
There are a couple of exceptions but if memory serves me right there are 1 kind of elite serpentis cruisers , and one type of elite sansha ones that will orbit closer than 32 km the rest fight at medium range. A battleship with an AB will in most cases be able to boost distance and reduce transversal if the pilot is competent meaning one - two volley situations. Heck , there are a lot of L4s where you have the majority of targets starting at ranges over 60 km giving a good turretusing pilot the option of wiping out the smaller targets(at least the elite ones) before they come close and start orbiting. Missiles simply dont have that option.
|
ScEmAl
Mystical Knights
Legionnaire Services Ltd.
|
Posted - 2008.11.22 18:51:00 -
[634]
I tried a mission after all the complaints about the missile nerf.
Full Disclosure - I am a 4 year vet (no breaks in that time) with several elite missile related certs (check bio). I fly faction and/or T2 Raven's (Golems CNR'S) and I use mainly T2 Cruise Launchers on missions (swapping out between regular and precision ordinance). I do target paint and web frigs. I am PvP skilled (completely irrelevant?)
I really did not see that big a difference in the missions. Same basic time to complete. Same basic damage to frigates. Not a big change. I was relieved to be honest. You all had me freaked out.
Maybe this nerf is aimed at the 6 month old newbs flying Ravens into Lvl4's still wet behind the ears? Makes fair sense since it takes years to fly other ships competently.
|
Hyveres
Caldari
|
Posted - 2008.11.22 19:00:00 -
[635]
Edited by: Hyveres on 22/11/2008 19:02:31
Edited by: Hyveres on 22/11/2008 19:01:22
Originally by: ScEmAl
I tried a mission after all the complaints about the missile nerf.
Full Disclosure - I am a 4 year vet (no breaks in that time) with several elite missile related certs (check bio). I fly faction and/or T2 Raven's (Golems CNR'S) and I use mainly T2 Cruise Launchers on missions (swapping out between regular and precision ordinance). I do target paint and web frigs. I am PvP skilled (completely irrelevant?)
I really did not see that big a difference in the missions. Same basic time to complete. Same basic damage to frigates. Not a big change. I was relieved to be honest. You all had me freaked out.
Maybe this nerf is aimed at the 6 month old newbs flying Ravens into Lvl4's still wet behind the ears? Makes fair sense since it takes years to fly other ships competently.
For most missions there are minimal difference but certain factions are a bit out of whack.
Guristas are more or less business as usual, same for blood raiders, mercs and mordu , sansha is only slightly more durable. The only naval faction I have gone up against is gallente navy and they do tank noticably better.
Serpentis cruisers tank better and angel cruisers tank a lot better. And frigates in general means that overaggroing in L4 Sansha Pirate invasion is a good way to loose a ship , while worlds collide has grown very tricky , at least all the versions that include angels in them are a lot harder than they used to be. And unless you are very confident AE L4 room in a plain raven or CNR carries a certain ammount of risk.
For the easier missions you shouldnt notice a big differnce , a cruiser here and there might need an additional salvo or 2. But thats about it. I do ofcourse assume you have 500k - 1 million SP invested in your targetpainter skills :)
|
Ragnar Darkstar
|
Posted - 2008.11.22 20:12:00 -
[636]
Originally by: ScEmAl
I tried a mission after all the complaints about the missile nerf.
Full Disclosure - I am a 4 year vet (no breaks in that time) with several elite missile related certs (check bio). I fly faction and/or T2 Raven's (Golems CNR'S) and I use mainly T2 Cruise Launchers on missions (swapping out between regular and precision ordinance). I do target paint and web frigs. I am PvP skilled (completely irrelevant?)
I really did not see that big a difference in the missions. Same basic time to complete. Same basic damage to frigates. Not a big change. I was relieved to be honest. You all had me freaked out.
Maybe this nerf is aimed at the 6 month old newbs flying Ravens into Lvl4's still wet behind the ears? Makes fair sense since it takes years to fly other ships competently.
Let me add my perspective as a 1 yr. 15 million SP vet (all relevant skills to 4, fitting and T2 required skills to 5). An entirely T2 fitted Raven does missions slightly slower than before, especially on anything that flies with an AB (Angels, etc.), but still faster than a lot of other battleships who have to align to hit with turrets. The biggest change is in target priority of rats. It used to be always, always go Battlecruiser -> Cruiser -> Battleship and let drones kill frigs (unless rigged mission). Now its the same but ignore HACS and kill Battleship's first, and use Med Drones and/or Precision Cruise for HACS. You almost have to use drones to at least help kill elite frigs/HACS, which is going to make certain drone-rigged missions harder.
But it seems to make Battlecruisers better for missions. Lots of reports of Nighthawks performing as well, or better, with T2 Fury Heavy Missiles. I haven't experienced this myself as my Drake is still 9 days away from having T2 launchers. I'll probably skill for a Nighthawk instead of a Golem with this patch. Golem is still probably the best Mission Runner, but the Nighthawk appears to be a very close (and much cheaper) No. 2 from what I've heard from the forums.
|
Opertone
Caldari
SIEGE.
|
Posted - 2008.11.23 10:24:00 -
[637]
Originally by: ScEmAl
I tried a mission after all the complaints about the missile nerf.
Full Disclosure - I am a 4 year vet (no breaks in that time) with several elite missile related certs (check bio). I fly faction and/or T2 Raven's (Golems CNR'S) and I use mainly T2 Cruise Launchers on missions (swapping out between regular and precision ordinance). I do target paint and web frigs. I am PvP skilled (completely irrelevant?)
I really did not see that big a difference in the missions. Same basic time to complete. Same basic damage to frigates. Not a big change. I was relieved to be honest. You all had me freaked out.
Maybe this nerf is aimed at the 6 month old newbs flying Ravens into Lvl4's still wet behind the ears? Makes fair sense since it takes years to fly other ships competently.
Golem features +25% explosion velocity which i was talking about... NPC rats go from 150 m/s to 450 m/s. Typical torpedo explosion velocity is near 110 m/s - hence damage reduction.
Before QR, my cruise missiles and torpedoes would instapop frigates and 3 volley elite frigates with the help of two target painters. No i only do 80-120 volley damage, the frigates normally have 1000-1200 HP... may take as many as 10 volleys.
I could paint the cruisers really hard and instapop them, now I only do 1200 volley damage. Takes 4 volleys to take down a cruiser. Only 600 DMG to HAC, they repair like insane... takes 8 volleys to destroy HACs.
Only one target painter was needed to instapop a battlecruiser, now dual painters, web drone and you may still need 2 volleys to finish it.
I can deal 3600 volley damage to a typical Battleship in missions, but only after I have applied a target painter and a webbing drone, as many battleships go above 120 m/s up to 165 m/s and therefore my damage is reduced from 2700 - 3200 for a moving target. It takes me 3 volleys to kill a 500 k bounty battleship, then 4 volleys for 800 k bounty and finally 7 volleys for 1,2 mill bounty ships. Still killing best bounty battleship takes less ammo than downing a HAC in missions.
Some NPC speed rebalancing or +25% to all missile explosion velocities is needed. |
Karille
Gallente
Lordless
|
Posted - 2008.11.23 11:17:00 -
[638]
Originally by: Opertone
Originally by: ScEmAl
I tried a mission after all the complaints about the missile nerf.
Full Disclosure - I am a 4 year vet (no breaks in that time) with several elite missile related certs (check bio). I fly faction and/or T2 Raven's (Golems CNR'S) and I use mainly T2 Cruise Launchers on missions (swapping out between regular and precision ordinance). I do target paint and web frigs. I am PvP skilled (completely irrelevant?)
I really did not see that big a difference in the missions. Same basic time to complete. Same basic damage to frigates. Not a big change. I was relieved to be honest. You all had me freaked out.
Maybe this nerf is aimed at the 6 month old newbs flying Ravens into Lvl4's still wet behind the ears? Makes fair sense since it takes years to fly other ships competently.
Golem features +25% explosion velocity which i was talking about... NPC rats go from 150 m/s to 450 m/s. Typical torpedo explosion velocity is near 110 m/s - hence damage reduction.
Before QR, my cruise missiles and torpedoes would instapop frigates and 3 volley elite frigates with the help of two target painters. No i only do 80-120 volley damage, the frigates normally have 1000-1200 HP... may take as many as 10 volleys.
I could paint the cruisers really hard and instapop them, now I only do 1200 volley damage. Takes 4 volleys to take down a cruiser. Only 600 DMG to HAC, they repair like insane... takes 8 volleys to destroy HACs.
Only one target painter was needed to instapop a battlecruiser, now dual painters, web drone and you may still need 2 volleys to finish it.
I can deal 3600 volley damage to a typical Battleship in missions, but only after I have applied a target painter and a webbing drone, as many battleships go above 120 m/s up to 165 m/s and therefore my damage is reduced from 2700 - 3200 for a moving target. It takes me 3 volleys to kill a 500 k bounty battleship, then 4 volleys for 800 k bounty and finally 7 volleys for 1,2 mill bounty ships. Still killing best bounty battleship takes less ammo than downing a HAC in missions.
Some NPC speed rebalancing or +25% to all missile explosion velocities is needed.
Do you realize you're complaining about the exact reason they were rebalanced? It was never supposed to be that easy to kill every single class of ship with one type of missile!
|
Kerfira
|
Posted - 2008.11.23 11:41:00 -
[639]
Originally by: Opertone
Originally by: ScEmAl
I tried a mission after all the complaints about the missile nerf.
Full Disclosure - I am a 4 year vet (no breaks in that time) with several elite missile related certs (check bio). I fly faction and/or T2 Raven's (Golems CNR'S) and I use mainly T2 Cruise Launchers on missions (swapping out between regular and precision ordinance). I do target paint and web frigs. I am PvP skilled (completely irrelevant?)
I really did not see that big a difference in the missions. Same basic time to complete. Same basic damage to frigates. Not a big change. I was relieved to be honest. You all had me freaked out.
Maybe this nerf is aimed at the 6 month old newbs flying Ravens into Lvl4's still wet behind the ears? Makes fair sense since it takes years to fly other ships competently.
Golem features +25% explosion velocity which i was talking about... NPC rats go from 150 m/s to 450 m/s. Typical torpedo explosion velocity is near 110 m/s - hence damage reduction.
Before QR, my cruise missiles and torpedoes would instapop frigates and 3 volley elite frigates with the help of two target painters. No i only do 80-120 volley damage, the frigates normally have 1000-1200 HP... may take as many as 10 volleys.
I could paint the cruisers really hard and instapop them, now I only do 1200 volley damage. Takes 4 volleys to take down a cruiser. Only 600 DMG to HAC, they repair like insane... takes 8 volleys to destroy HACs.
Only one target painter was needed to instapop a battlecruiser, now dual painters, web drone and you may still need 2 volleys to finish it.
I can deal 3600 volley damage to a typical Battleship in missions, but only after I have applied a target painter and a webbing drone, as many battleships go above 120 m/s up to 165 m/s and therefore my damage is reduced from 2700 - 3200 for a moving target. It takes me 3 volleys to kill a 500 k bounty battleship, then 4 volleys for 800 k bounty and finally 7 volleys for 1,2 mill bounty ships. Still killing best bounty battleship takes less ammo than downing a HAC in missions.
Some NPC speed rebalancing or +25% to all missile explosion velocities is needed.
You have correctly identified the intentions behind the missile change and verified that it works as intended. Why do you want to rebalance?
Oh, I see... You're missing the huge amount of ISK you earned by abusing broken game mechanics...
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
|
Opertone
Caldari
SIEGE.
|
Posted - 2008.11.24 09:46:00 -
[640]
this is not the point! I said that all missiles need to receive +25% to explosion velocities, as they are very impractical for PVP without tackle support. Especially on non caldari ships with missile hardpoints.
It seems to me that CCP started rebalance with top quality implants in mind, because at level 1 skills missile damage is largely insufficient, at lvl 5 skills it is not at the full potential, and only with tech 1 rigs and implants it closes 90% of what the damage should be.
All missiles need +25% improvement to explosion velocities, otherwise they are pathetic against 'speed' tanked targets of the same class... if a Battleship goes 350 m/s and has 70% resists, then Missile pilot often has no chance to catch the target with webs and does 70% less due to resists and 60% less due to speed reduction ending up with 12% of the original damage. Turret weapons perform better in this case against targets of the same size. |
Karille
Gallente
Lordless
|
Posted - 2008.11.24 09:55:00 -
[641]
Originally by: Opertone
this is not the point! I said that all missiles need to receive +25% to explosion velocities, as they are very impractical for PVP without tackle support. Especially on non caldari ships with missile hardpoints.
It seems to me that CCP started rebalance with top quality implants in mind, because at level 1 skills missile damage is largely insufficient, at lvl 5 skills it is not at the full potential, and only with tech 1 rigs and implants it closes 90% of what the damage should be.
All missiles need +25% improvement to explosion velocities, otherwise they are pathetic against 'speed' tanked targets of the same class... if a Battleship goes 350 m/s and has 70% resists, then Missile pilot often has no chance to catch the target with webs and does 70% less due to resists and 60% less due to speed reduction ending up with 12% of the original damage. Turret weapons perform better in this case against targets of the same size.
Turrets are equally pathetic against speed tanked targets of the same class i assure you.
|
Opertone
Caldari
SIEGE.
|
Posted - 2008.11.24 10:10:00 -
[642]
Edited by: Opertone on 24/11/2008 10:10:39
only when the speed tanker is in orbit, the tighter the orbit the more tracking problems occur, at 12 km range a web can be applied, so the orbit is anywhere between 15 km and 30 km... further than that the angular speed isn't sufficient.
Missiles suffer damage at all ranges, normally 6 mid slots do not allow a web, the target has to go in straight line in any direction to get reduced damage.
Same weapon class needs to be able to hit same ship size for the full damage with proper support skills and fittings. However it takes more than that for missile user now, besides close range tackle isn't possible.
Boost explosion velocities by 25% and it will be possible again, or give us more medium slots in exchange for low slots, which can not be used for anything other than Power Diagnosis System. |
Karille
Gallente
Lordless
|
Posted - 2008.11.24 10:19:00 -
[643]
Missile damage is normalized over its entire range so you have the freedom to take advantage of the turret user's tracking weaknesses without worrying about your own. Even small velocities at under 3km can cause a tracking nightmare so you can choose to pick that orbit outside of web range or just get right in his face and make the tight slow orbit.
|
Khamal Jolstien
Caldari
Product Number 3
|
Posted - 2008.11.25 09:41:00 -
[644]
Originally by: Karille
Missile damage is normalized over its entire range so you have the freedom to take advantage of the turret user's tracking weaknesses without worrying about your own. Even small velocities at under 3km can cause a tracking nightmare so you can choose to pick that orbit outside of web range or just get right in his face and make the tight slow orbit.
The problem is now even small velocities at any range cause a dps nightmare to missiles :(
|
Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
|
Posted - 2008.11.25 09:45:00 -
[645]
No, a "DPS nightmare" was a cruiser travelling at 4 km/s under the old mechanics. Missiles are vastly more effective now.
|
F90OEX
F9X
|
Posted - 2008.11.25 09:48:00 -
[646]
Originally by: Karille
Originally by: Opertone
Originally by: ScEmAl
I tried a mission after all the complaints about the missile nerf.
Full Disclosure - I am a 4 year vet (no breaks in that time) with several elite missile related certs (check bio). I fly faction and/or T2 Raven's (Golems CNR'S) and I use mainly T2 Cruise Launchers on missions (swapping out between regular and precision ordinance). I do target paint and web frigs. I am PvP skilled (completely irrelevant?)
I really did not see that big a difference in the missions. Same basic time to complete. Same basic damage to frigates. Not a big change. I was relieved to be honest. You all had me freaked out.
Maybe this nerf is aimed at the 6 month old newbs flying Ravens into Lvl4's still wet behind the ears? Makes fair sense since it takes years to fly other ships competently.
Golem features +25% explosion velocity which i was talking about... NPC rats go from 150 m/s to 450 m/s. Typical torpedo explosion velocity is near 110 m/s - hence damage reduction.
Before QR, my cruise missiles and torpedoes would instapop frigates and 3 volley elite frigates with the help of two target painters. No i only do 80-120 volley damage, the frigates normally have 1000-1200 HP... may take as many as 10 volleys.
I could paint the cruisers really hard and instapop them, now I only do 1200 volley damage. Takes 4 volleys to take down a cruiser. Only 600 DMG to HAC, they repair like insane... takes 8 volleys to destroy HACs.
Only one target painter was needed to instapop a battlecruiser, now dual painters, web drone and you may still need 2 volleys to finish it.
I can deal 3600 volley damage to a typical Battleship in missions, but only after I have applied a target painter and a webbing drone, as many battleships go above 120 m/s up to 165 m/s and therefore my damage is reduced from 2700 - 3200 for a moving target. It takes me 3 volleys to kill a 500 k bounty battleship, then 4 volleys for 800 k bounty and finally 7 volleys for 1,2 mill bounty ships. Still killing best bounty battleship takes less ammo than downing a HAC in missions.
Some NPC speed rebalancing or +25% to all missile explosion velocities is needed.
Do you realize you're complaining about the exact reason they were rebalanced? It was never supposed to be that easy to kill every single class of ship with one type of missile!
LOL ....
I'm in agreement with ScEmAl.
|
Le Cardinal
Black Plague.
|
Posted - 2008.11.25 11:37:00 -
[647]
I rarely heard missionrunners/ratters whine about nanoes prepatch.
In 0.0 ppl whined all the time.
Prepatch, missiles couldnt hit nanoes for damage worth crap. (i have maxed out most missileskills). An ishtar or vaga would just orbit you and giggle while he ripped you apart. A nanoed missileboat vs nanoed gallente/minnie/amarr was the sucks, because of speed and dmg.
Postpatch, well they nerfed nanoes, but missiles got shafted too. So nothing has really changed with exception of speed. I have to sacrifice my tank to fit a TP, but if other races fit dampeners it wont make any difference. But fit a web! ppl say, well yeah, my opponent does too.
Caldari aint soloships! ppl say. True, caldari is and always have been shafted there as well. There is no logical reason for why other races should have that advantage and caldari not. Caldari rule at missioning and ratting! ppl say. Who cares, im bothered about the pvp perspective.
So now i pretty much fly falcons Waiting for a second ew nerf.
Oh and for the record. I dont rat or do missions.
|
Opertone
Caldari
SIEGE.
|
Posted - 2008.11.25 12:01:00 -
[648]
raven slot lay out is outrageous 6/2(8) / 6 / 5 - what am i supposed to put in my low slots which helps me? Any tank takes 4 slots normally, lows aren't suitable for armor tank or speed tank, the best that can go there is 2 DMG mods and 3 fitting mods.
No other ship in game has to use fitting mods because there is nothing to put in. Ravnes do, PVP setups often involve PDS, DCU and BCS for maxx efficiency.
In the end there are 2 mids slots to be used after 4 slot tank has been applied, what can go in there?
Ammar ships have following layout 8/2(8) / 4 / 7 - a 4 slot tank goes into lows, allowing for 2 DMG mods and a DCU. Then there is enough powergrid, without the need for fitting mods, and 4 slots in the mid allow for a speed module, tackle module, capacitor injector and ECCM/electronics.
now why do ravens need 2 turret harpoints? Why do ravens have 2 mids slots with classic 4 tank module layout? Why do ravens need 5 low slots filled with fitting modules? And more importantly why do we have 0% EM hole? To cover it up 2 EM hardeners or 3 invulnerabilities may not be enough, leaving us with 75% EM resists. Armor tankers can get higher than that on their lowest resist.
Scorpion is a better concept, with 4/4(6) / 8 / 4 slot layout, but is not a damage dealer by any means, 3 turrets 3 missiles will not give enough DPS. Golem is much better for this matter, it has outstanding damage and 4(6) / 7 / 4 slot layout - more appropriate for caldari.
My say is that caldari don't need the crappy low slots at all. And that ship design is flawed. |
Karille
Gallente
Lordless
|
Posted - 2008.11.25 12:14:00 -
[649]
A power diagnostic unit does not qualify as a fitting module on a shield tanking ship. It gives you more capacitor to rep with and more shield to tank with. If an amarr or gallente battleship doesn't have at least one cap recharger or cap booster they aren't going to last very long, so your comment about the free mids is kinda invalid too.
|
Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
|
Posted - 2008.11.25 12:21:00 -
[650]
Originally by: Karille
A power diagnostic unit does not qualify as a fitting module on a shield tanking ship. It gives you more capacitor to rep with and more shield to tank with. If an amarr or gallente battleship doesn't have at least one cap recharger or cap booster they aren't going to last very long, so your comment about the free mids is kinda invalid too.
Yes it does, because normally the only reason to fit one is for extra PG, as it takes up a slot that you should be putting an extra damage mod in.
|
Karille
Gallente
Lordless
|
Posted - 2008.11.25 12:24:00 -
[651]
Originally by: Gypsio III
Originally by: Karille
A power diagnostic unit does not qualify as a fitting module on a shield tanking ship. It gives you more capacitor to rep with and more shield to tank with. If an amarr or gallente battleship doesn't have at least one cap recharger or cap booster they aren't going to last very long, so your comment about the free mids is kinda invalid too.
Yes it does, because normally the only reason to fit one is for extra PG, as it takes up a slot that you should be putting an extra damage mod in.
But it does way more than just add power grid. If we were talking about a reactor control I'd agree, but they aren't the same.
|
Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
|
Posted - 2008.11.25 12:31:00 -
[652]
Edited by: Gypsio III on 25/11/2008 12:35:01
True, but those extras - cap recharge, shield recharge, even shield capacity - are nowhere near as useful as more damage. Even the shield capacity bonus is pretty small, and only useful when you're being shot at, whereas more damage is useful all the time. It's not that the bonuses aren't useful - it's just that other mods are better.
Even on, say, a Raven that already has DC and triple BCS, it makes more sense to go for a 4th BCS or a lowslot ECCM than whacking a PDS on. Or, for that matter, a RCU/copro and a heavy neut/large RR mod. Probably the only ships that really benefit from PDS are the Onyx/Broadsword, where you're not concerned with damage in the slightest, but buffer and neut defense are important.
|
Karille
Gallente
Lordless
|
Posted - 2008.11.25 12:50:00 -
[653]
Originally by: Gypsio III
Edited by: Gypsio III on 25/11/2008 12:35:01
True, but those extras - cap recharge, shield recharge, even shield capacity - are nowhere near as useful as more damage. Even the shield capacity bonus is pretty small, and only useful when you're being shot at, whereas more damage is useful all the time. It's not that the bonuses aren't useful - it's just that other mods are better.
Even on, say, a Raven that already has DC and triple BCS, it makes more sense to go for a 4th BCS or a lowslot ECCM than whacking a PDS on. Or, for that matter, a RCU/copro and a heavy neut/large RR mod. Probably the only ships that really benefit from PDS are the Onyx/Broadsword, where you're not concerned with damage in the slightest, but buffer and neut defense are important.
I know i'm talking to two people at the same time, but you can't really be angry about sacrificing tanking mids for damage helpers like a web and target painter and then filling your lows with damage mods.
Armor tanking ships give up their tank slots to damage mods, and they sacrifice valuable cap recharge for utility mods.
|
Tippia
Caldari
Raddick Explorations
BlackWater.
|
Posted - 2008.11.25 12:56:00 -
[654]
Originally by: Karille
Armor tanking ships give up their tank slots to damage mods, and they sacrifice valuable cap recharge for utility mods.
…and while we're talking about cap recharge — any thoughts on CFCs to fill out those empty lowslots?
No sig for me, thankyouverymuch. |
Laylah
Suicidal Tendencies Ltd
|
Posted - 2008.11.25 13:01:00 -
[655]
While we are on the subject of missiles and missions - has anyone noticed that CCP's changes to Javelin Torpedos - specifically a 50% increase in range has not taken effect. My Javelin Torp range before patch is still the same as it is now. :(
|
Karille
Gallente
Lordless
|
Posted - 2008.11.25 13:17:00 -
[656]
Edited by: Karille on 25/11/2008 13:17:30
Originally by: Laylah
While we are on the subject of missiles and missions - has anyone noticed that CCP's changes to Javelin Torpedos - specifically a 50% increase in range has not taken effect. My Javelin Torp range before patch is still the same as it is now. :(
That's a pretty large omission. Is it just torps or all javelin missiles?
Tippia were you talking to me?
|
Tippia
Caldari
Raddick Explorations
BlackWater.
|
Posted - 2008.11.25 13:21:00 -
[657]
Originally by: Karille
Tippia were you talking to me?
Not so much to you as to expand on the discussion of what lowslots can be used for in various setups, and what the different tanking strategies have to give up.
I find that shield tankers often forget these tiny low-slot mods that actually help their tank, either by making it less fiddly (cap-wise), or by outright strengthening it.
No sig for me, thankyouverymuch. |
Opertone
Caldari
SIEGE.
|
Posted - 2008.11.26 00:00:00 -
[658]
missiles lose damage if target velocity exceeds missile explosion velocity by 10-30%, you loose 25%-50% damage.
All missiles do need +25% explosion velocity balance, or it is impractical to fire missiles without specialized rigs and implants. Missiles had a lot of drawbacks before, but explosion velocities this low are beyond reasonable. |
Odessima
Caldari
The Black Rabbits
The Gurlstas Associates
|
Posted - 2008.11.26 01:20:00 -
[659]
Originally by: F90OEX
Originally by: Karille
Originally by: Opertone
Originally by: ScEmAl
I tried a mission after all the complaints about the missile nerf.
Full Disclosure - I am a 4 year vet (no breaks in that time) with several elite missile related certs (check bio). I fly faction and/or T2 Raven's (Golems CNR'S) and I use mainly T2 Cruise Launchers on missions (swapping out between regular and precision ordinance). I do target paint and web frigs. I am PvP skilled (completely irrelevant?)
I really did not see that big a difference in the missions. Same basic time to complete. Same basic damage to frigates. Not a big change. I was relieved to be honest. You all had me freaked out.
Maybe this nerf is aimed at the 6 month old newbs flying Ravens into Lvl4's still wet behind the ears? Makes fair sense since it takes years to fly other ships competently.
Golem features +25% explosion velocity which i was talking about... NPC rats go from 150 m/s to 450 m/s. Typical torpedo explosion velocity is near 110 m/s - hence damage reduction.
Before QR, my cruise missiles and torpedoes would instapop frigates and 3 volley elite frigates with the help of two target painters. No i only do 80-120 volley damage, the frigates normally have 1000-1200 HP... may take as many as 10 volleys.
I could paint the cruisers really hard and instapop them, now I only do 1200 volley damage. Takes 4 volleys to take down a cruiser. Only 600 DMG to HAC, they repair like insane... takes 8 volleys to destroy HACs.
Only one target painter was needed to instapop a battlecruiser, now dual painters, web drone and you may still need 2 volleys to finish it.
I can deal 3600 volley damage to a typical Battleship in missions, but only after I have applied a target painter and a webbing drone, as many battleships go above 120 m/s up to 165 m/s and therefore my damage is reduced from 2700 - 3200 for a moving target. It takes me 3 volleys to kill a 500 k bounty battleship, then 4 volleys for 800 k bounty and finally 7 volleys for 1,2 mill bounty ships. Still killing best bounty battleship takes less ammo than downing a HAC in missions.
Some NPC speed rebalancing or +25% to all missile explosion velocities is needed.
Do you realize you're complaining about the exact reason they were rebalanced? It was never supposed to be that easy to kill every single class of ship with one type of missile!
LOL ....
I'm in agreement with ScEmAl.
Even I agree with what they tried to do with raven mission runners and their I-win button, but unfortunately in PVP you dont have daft NPC's to deal with and missiles ships were never an I-win button before in PVP, in actual fact had a lot of dissadvantages in PVP and thanks to QR alot more. T2 Skills should mean more not less than T1 |
Patent Pending
|
Posted - 2008.11.26 01:39:00 -
[660]
What has missile players completely fuked up this patch is that CCP tried to balance missiles by making them more sensitive to the speed of the target.
.. yet forgot that missiles FLY to the goddamn target. Unlike turrets that do insta-fuk-damage.
4X T2 fury Cruise missile vs battleship flying at 25m/s = 1450dmg
4X t2 fury cruise missile vs same battleship now flying at 120m/s = 850dmg.
Do the freakin' math. That alone is a loss of 40 something percent damage!!!
(and lets not forget that I had to wait the 22 seconds time it took for it to GET to that target.. 120km away)
But it gets better...
... the only way to get the target slowed down is by using THE slowest drones in the game (web drones) which have a max range of 50km (base max control range) .. or by using a midslot webber module... max range 10km.
Just how stupider can you possibly get CCP? All missiles are now effectively lowered to 10km range if they want to do any dps worth mentioning -or- have to waste 2 to 3 highslots for drone range links to use webber drones from long range (100km+) AND wait 20+ seconds for the drone to get there and THEN wait 22+ seconds for the missiles to get there on top of that.
Seriously.. just what did you guys test all this crapchanges on? Did you use a rifter with rockets or a raven with torpedoes?
These changes SHOW you did not put much thought into this or did any testing worth mentioning. Dont give me crap about SiSi, you were given the feedback about the missiles and completely ignored it.
To have missiles nerfed to the point where it is the equivalent of being forced to use small turret guns vs cruiser sized target JUST because they fly faster than 100ms is idiotic.
Here's a balancing suggestion.. because I know CCP is *sooo* interested in balancing things out. Make turret users have similar issues with their guns hmmm?
Using medium or large turrets, any ship flying faster than 100ms they will always hit with 'barely scratching' damage. Always.
Using smalls, they will hit small sized ships for 'barely scratching' damage on targets flying faster than 200m/s.
That's what you've done to missiles. Now fix this crap.
|
Lady Karma
|
Posted - 2008.11.26 01:45:00 -
[661]
Originally by: Patent Pending
waaaaaaaaaa
God I love this
Missile spammers want the game to be balanced around their ability to run a mission.
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Khamal Jolstien
Caldari
Product Number 3
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Posted - 2008.11.26 02:01:00 -
[662]
Originally by: Lady Karma
Originally by: Patent Pending
waaaaaaaaaa
God I love this
Missile spammers want the game to be balanced around their ability to run a mission.
Some. I just want it to be balanced around my ability to be successful in combat to a reasonable degree. PVP or PVE. Right now it fails at both. Horribly.
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Odessima
Caldari
The Black Rabbits
The Gurlstas Associates
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Posted - 2008.11.26 03:07:00 -
[663]
Originally by: Khamal Jolstien
Originally by: Lady Karma
Originally by: Patent Pending
waaaaaaaaaa
God I love this
Missile spammers want the game to be balanced around their ability to run a mission.
Some. I just want it to be balanced around my ability to be successful in combat to a reasonable degree. PVP or PVE. Right now it fails at both. Horribly.
The thing that really annoys me, is that people dont actually read ****. I dont run missions I havent in over 8 months. I actually agree as far as missioning goes Ravens where alot better in MOST circumstances. My problem is the values CCP used are based on the next size ship up, not the same sized ship if you take it to a logical conclusion if a caldari titan fitted with cit torps, there is actually no ship the next size up so it will never do full damage with cit torps on any target. Im not saying you would want to fit it that way, but that is just how it is because thats what their calculations are basing themselves on.
I would have been very very happy if ccp had based their formulas on Max Damage same sized ship and then put their formulas into play for speed and other stuff, instead of the next sized ship up, which for a raven is Capitals, smaller target less damage is fine, same size target max damage before taking into account other factors like speed, sig radius, resists and stuff that would then be reducing the damage on the same sized ship.
I find the fact that as far as missions go compared to PVP that 1 pod pilot ship can take on a fleet of 10+ ships the same size and win is ****ing silly, to me the problem isnt the ships themselves its the NPC's because that doesnt convert to PVP at all.
And who said Ravens dont use low slots, are you mad or just dumb, BCU's, CPU'S and DCU'S I wouldnt mind them taking one high slot though and adding a midslot, 1 turret slot removed 1 midslot added
My comments are my own and arent neccesarily anything to do with my corp.
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Clinically
Gallente
ANZAC ALLIANCE
Southern Cross Alliance
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Posted - 2008.11.26 03:14:00 -
[664]
Your CNRs, I can haz them?
________________
ANZAC Recruitment - NOW OPEN! |
Patent Pending
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Posted - 2008.11.26 03:54:00 -
[665]
Originally by: Lady Karma
Missile spammers want the game to be balanced around their ability to run a mission.
FYI I've never done missions nor will I ever do. They're boring, idiotically repetitive and CCP made them so to sustain the subscriptions of the isk farmers.
If you used half your brain you'd realize just how much this affects PVP. Before this patch, using missiles was a joke due to nano-***gery (missiles would never catch them) and long distances giving the 'target' ample time to align and warp out.
Now, however, all ANY ship.. read that again: ANY SHIP has to do to receive maximum damage mitigation from a missile is to simply activate the AB.
Here's another wonderful gem from CCP: Missile calculations do not take into account the vector of the missile vs the vector the ship is flying. Since this is perhaps over your head, just think how a very low transversal speed = higher damage for turrets. Missiles do not have this. Missiles are stuck with speed = transversal speed (in turret terms).
Hence, you just need hit the AB heading STRAIGHT for the missile.. or away from it.. or flying at a 90 degree angle from its incoming path .. and you get maximum damage mitigation.
Just by activating the AB.
Stupid stupid stupid CCP.
Missiles should not take into account target signature size if speed is mitigating all the damage. Missile damage should be calculated taking into account the missile's vector and the target ship's vector at the moment of impact.
Only THEN will having speed mitigate missile damage make sense AND be balanced.
Too bad CCP does not test the changes properly. This is incompetence incarnate.
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Karille
Gallente
Lordless
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Posted - 2008.11.26 07:04:00 -
[666]
Go look at some DPS graphs and then come back here.
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Soporo
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.11.26 07:18:00 -
[667]
Originally by: Patent Pending
Originally by: Lady Karma
Missile spammers want the game to be balanced around their ability to run a mission.
FYI I've never done missions nor will I ever do. They're boring, idiotically repetitive and CCP made them so to sustain the subscriptions of the isk farmers.
If you used half your brain you'd realize just how much this affects PVP. Before this patch, using missiles was a joke due to nano-***gery (missiles would never catch them) and long distances giving the 'target' ample time to align and warp out.
Now, however, all ANY ship.. read that again: ANY SHIP has to do to receive maximum damage mitigation from a missile is to simply activate the AB.
Here's another wonderful gem from CCP: Missile calculations do not take into account the vector of the missile vs the vector the ship is flying. Since this is perhaps over your head, just think how a very low transversal speed = higher damage for turrets. Missiles do not have this. Missiles are stuck with speed = transversal speed (in turret terms).
Hence, you just need hit the AB heading STRAIGHT for the missile.. or away from it.. or flying at a 90 degree angle from its incoming path .. and you get maximum damage mitigation.
Just by activating the AB.
Stupid stupid stupid CCP.
Missiles should not take into account target signature size if speed is mitigating all the damage. Missile damage should be calculated taking into account the missile's vector and the target ship's vector at the moment of impact.
Only THEN will having speed mitigate missile damage make sense AND be balanced.
Too bad CCP does not test the changes properly. This is incompetence incarnate.
In before Gypsio comes in claiming it was all a missile buff and you're somehow terribly mistaken.
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Tippia
Caldari
Raddick Explorations
BlackWater.
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Posted - 2008.11.26 07:20:00 -
[668]
Originally by: Patent Pending
Here's another wonderful gem from CCP: Missile calculations do not take into account the vector of the missile vs the vector the ship is flying.
Why would it? If the missile explodes in every direction, why would it matter what direction the ship is flying? What matters is how fast you can get away from the centre of the explosion (speed) and how large a cross-section your ship has to catch the shock wave (sig radius).
If you want to complain about something, complain about the fact that the missiles in ≡v≡ aren't clever enough to lead their targets and therefore always explode behind the optimal point of impact.
No sig for me, thankyouverymuch. |
Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2008.11.26 09:38:00 -
[669]
Originally by: Khamal Jolstien
Some. I just want it to be balanced around my ability to be successful in combat to a reasonable degree. PVP or PVE. Right now I fail at both. Horribly.
Fixed.
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Opertone
Caldari
SIEGE.
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Posted - 2008.11.26 11:19:00 -
[670]
Originally by: Patent Pending
... the only way to get the target slowed down is by using THE slowest drones in the game (web drones) which have a max range of 50km (base max control range) .. or by using a midslot webber module... max range 10km.
Just how stupider can you possibly get CCP? All missiles are now effectively lowered to 10km range if they want to do any dps worth mentioning -or- have to waste 2 to 3 highslots for drone range links to use webber drones from long range (100km+) AND wait 20+ seconds for the drone to get there and THEN wait 22+ seconds for the missiles to get there on top of that.
this man speaks wisdom, indeed we need to use undersized missiles and still are unable to deal full damage at all ranges for the designed target.
we need 25% explosion velocity bonus to all missiles so it translates to 120 m/s explosion velocity with lvl 5 skills on cruise and 150 m/s explosion velocity with flare rigs. Even then damage is not going to be enough, but not pathetic for targets that go without any speed mod.
If the target goes 150 m/s and cruise explosion velocity is 110 m/s 45% of damage is cut down, if target goes 300 m/s, then 75% of damage is cut down. And we are talking about same size targets, signature radius should mean more than explosion velocity to help small ships survive, because actually Battleships can move as fast as a tech 1 frigate, but the damage reduction inadequate.
Can we have missiles that do full damage on same size targets and oversized ones? or at least within 70-100% depending on environment, not 25-80% cap. |
Brea Lafail
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Posted - 2008.11.26 15:43:00 -
[671]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Patent Pending
Here's another wonderful gem from CCP: Missile calculations do not take into account the vector of the missile vs the vector the ship is flying.
Why would it?
FOR BALANCE YOU SILLY GOOSE! Never ever ever ever bring physics into a game balancing argument, and if you are, fix us warping through the middle of planets first.
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Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2008.11.26 15:45:00 -
[672]
Mindlessly shouting "balance" is not a game balancing argument either. Now, explain properly.
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Tippia
Caldari
Raddick Explorations
BlackWater.
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Posted - 2008.11.26 16:26:00 -
[673]
Originally by: Brea Lafail
FOR BALANCE YOU SILLY GOOSE! Never ever ever ever bring physics into a game balancing argument
Without the physics, there is no argument.
Missiles don't care about the velocity vector or its location in space — only about its length (i.e. the speed).
Turrets don't care about the speed itself, but about the direction and location of that velocity vector (i.e. optimal range and transversal).
Both care about the size of the target.
Balance.
No sig for me, thankyouverymuch. |
Lady Karma
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Posted - 2008.11.26 16:28:00 -
[674]
Originally by: Patent Pending
FYI I've never done missions nor will I ever do.
I am totally believing you. It is clear that you would never misrepresent any facts or data in order to make your argument look stronger.
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IxenBlaze
Gallente
Fighting While Intoxicated
Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2008.11.26 17:32:00 -
[675]
Edited by: IxenBlaze on 26/11/2008 17:33:04
The point of this as far as i can tell, is the fact that you shouldnt be able to mitigate damage from a missile that is MADE! for your ship clas just by going your normal speed. You should be forced to either equip a tank or equip a speed mod to mitigate your damage, and regardless of what would happen in real life, this is a game which is not directly linked to how things IRL would work. CCP please fix missiles and some other rediculus things that made quantum fail such a bad expansion.
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Karille
Gallente
Lordless
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Posted - 2008.11.26 17:36:00 -
[676]
Originally by: IxenBlaze
Edited by: IxenBlaze on 26/11/2008 17:33:04
The point of this as far as i can tell, is the fact that you shouldnt be able to mitigate damage from a missile that is MADE! for your ship clas just by going your normal speed. You should be forced to either equip a tank or equip a speed mod to mitigate your damage, and regardless of what would happen in real life, this is a game which is not directly linked to how things IRL would work. CCP please fix missiles and some other rediculus things that made quantum fail such a bad expansion.
Afterburner != Normal speed
Afterburner = speed mod
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Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2008.11.26 17:50:00 -
[677]
Originally by: IxenBlaze
Edited by: IxenBlaze on 26/11/2008 17:33:04
The point of this as far as i can tell, is the fact that you shouldnt be able to mitigate damage from a missile that is MADE! for your ship clas just by going your normal speed.
The problem with this is that the speed boost from an AB is pretty much the same as the speed lost when you get single-webbed. Given that an ABing ship will get webbed, missiles that deal full damage at base speed would also deal ~full damage when an ABing ship inevitably gets webbed - which would render ABs pointless, and give close-range missiles even more of an advantage over turrets that they now have.
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Ehranavaar
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Posted - 2008.11.26 18:18:00 -
[678]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Patent Pending
Here's another wonderful gem from CCP: Missile calculations do not take into account the vector of the missile vs the vector the ship is flying.
Why would it? If the missile explodes in every direction, why would it matter what direction the ship is flying? What matters is how fast you can get away from the centre of the explosion (speed) and how large a cross-section your ship has to catch the shock wave (sig radius).
flying into the shockwave is going to affect the effective speed of the shockwave which is going to very directly affect the amount of damage the shockwave is going to do to your ship. if you for example are flying a ship moving at 500 m/s and are hit by a missile with a explosion speed of 1000 m/s. if you are flying directly away from the missile the shockwave hits you at 1000-500=500 m/s. on the other hand if you are flying toward the missile the shockwave hits at 500+1000=1500 m/s.
for some reason CCP assumes that all missiles strike from dead astern the target which is patently unreasonable. my experience is that well over half of the missiles i fire are fired at approaching ships and in a more reasonable universe would actually be doing bonus damage.
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Hyveres
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.11.26 18:19:00 -
[679]
Well as it is atm any most cruisers that is not webbed with an active MWD running will speedtank rockets & light missiles.
MWD turned off and no AB means speedtanking when you got your nav skills up properly. This goes for all frigates and most cruisers.
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Karille
Gallente
Lordless
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Posted - 2008.11.26 19:03:00 -
[680]
Originally by: Hyveres
Well as it is atm any most cruisers that is not webbed with an active MWD running will speedtank rockets & light missiles.
MWD turned off and no AB means speedtanking when you got your nav skills up properly. This goes for all frigates and most cruisers.
You sir must not understand the damage formula. Please educate yourself with these spreadsheets.
Missile damage graphs
It's not all about that low explosion velocity you see. A Thorax with all skills at level 5 goes 213 base. Its sig radius is 140. If you look at those graphs you'll see that it gets 100% of the damage of rockets and light missiles. It will also take about 90% and 82% of the damage from heavy and heavy assault missiles respectively. These damage reductions are fairly light compared to what happens due to the tracking and falloff of turrets. Thus, missiles do acceptable damage to the same target over a longer range.
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Patent Pending
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Posted - 2008.11.26 19:54:00 -
[681]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Patent Pending
Here's another wonderful gem from CCP: Missile calculations do not take into account the vector of the missile vs the vector the ship is flying.
Why would it? If the missile explodes in every direction, why would it matter what direction the ship is flying? What matters is how fast you can get away from the centre of the explosion (speed) and how large a cross-section your ship has to catch the shock wave (sig radius).
Exactly. If you are hit by a car from behind while you're going 100mph and the guy that hits you is 120mph, you feel the impact as being 20mph. If that crash was head-on, the impact is 220mph worth of hurt. Now do you understand?
Quote:
Missiles don't care about the velocity vector or its location in space ù only about its length (i.e. the speed).
Which should not be as per what I put on my previous post.
Quote:
Turrets don't care about the speed itself, but about the direction and location of that velocity vector (i.e. optimal range and transversal).
Incorrect. Speed is a factor in that velocity vector. Transversal. A frigate orbiting you at 20ms has a significantly lower transversal than same frigate orbiting at 2000ms.
Turrets are affected by speed BUT only as a FACTOR in the damage calculation. As a turret user, if you want to increase your chances of a good hit you select the appropriate ammo for the target's range and you steer your ship to lower the transversal as best you can. You fire, damage is instantaneously applied to target.
If you're being targeted by a turret use, you steer your ship and change your speed with the objective of increasing your transversal. This may be easy for some ships, may require some positioning for other ships.
Now however, a missile user... if you want to increase your chances of a better hit.. you CANT do anything about it unless you're in 10km range to web (regardless of missile type you're using) or have waited the 20+ seconds for that webber drone to reach the target for you.
If you're being targeted by a missile user, all you need to do is activate the afterburner. Instant full damage mitigation. No steering, no regard to transversal or of your vector vs missile vector.. no nothing. Just press the instant-damage-mitigation button.
What we have now is turret users retain their ability to use turrets of = size to target (large vs bs for example) which have excellent ability to inflict full or wrecking damage (as = size turrets track and hit their own size ships very well unless target has a tremendous boost to transversal speed..which is very rare post-nano era)...
and missiles that always inflict minimal damage vs = sized ships (Cruise vs BS) because said ships always travel faster than their explosion velocity with or WITHOUT AB... and are therefore forced to use smaller missiles vs bigger targets.
A heavy missile does full damage vs a battleship. It is more effective than cruises due to the fact that a BS being hit by cruises will have highly variable damage (always on the low mitigated damage side) whereas a heavy missile always applies full damage.
Again, if 4 cruise T2 fury missiles, with a target webbed and painted does 1450 dmg vs a BS at 20ms and 850 vs same BS going 120ms (drops to 650 if BS uses AB).. and 4 T2 heavies do reliable 630dmg at any BS speed and refire faster..
well, that alone should tell you how screwed up missiles are.
Remove sig size vs expl. radius calculation and have the missile damage be calculated taking into account the missile's vector and the target ship's vector at the moment of impact and the missiles will be balanced.
A frigate orbiting a BS getting hit by a torpedo would have tremendous mitigation due to its speed and that the torp is hitting it from the side or rear (if it hits).. but if the frigate is hit in the face with the torp, then the frigate speed ADDS damage to the torp's damage as a bonus.
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Karille
Gallente
Lordless
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Posted - 2008.11.26 19:59:00 -
[682]
Patent you appear to have no idea how many extra server calculations that would require.
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Patent Pending
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Posted - 2008.11.26 20:22:00 -
[683]
Originally by: Karille
Edited by: Karille on 26/11/2008 20:06:56
Patent you appear to have no idea how many extra server calculations that would require.
Not to mention that your calculations are lies.
Turrets perform the same calculations, if not more, than what would be needed to factor in the missile damage as I request it to be.
I do not need to lie or do any calculations. The information neatly pops up on my screen and shows on the combat log. How about you get off your high horse and test it yourself in-game mm?
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Karille
Gallente
Lordless
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Posted - 2008.11.26 20:30:00 -
[684]
I have. Turrets do more peak damage than missiles in most cases. However, missiles go much farther than their comparative turret types. When the turret is in falloff and decreasing in damage quickly the missile just keeps on trucking till max range. When the turret is trying to track a target way up close and can't hit it the missile just keeps on trucking for the same damage as always. Granted missiles do less damage against small or fast targets even in their proper size group they are very comparable and all weapon systems have bands of range where they excel above others INCLUDING MISSILES.
Turrets sometimes do more damage than missiles and missiles sometimes do more damage than turrets. If you just open your heart and believe and learn to love your weapon system and work its advantages you'll lead a much happier life.
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Ranger 1
Amarr
Shiva
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2008.11.26 20:39:00 -
[685]
The fiction surrounding missiles in EVE has the missiles exploding in proximity to the target, not colliding with it.
Thus, your analogy of the 120mph car crash does not apply. The missile and the ship never collide.
=====
* Now I know how George Washington felt when Napoleon bombed him at Pearl Harbor. - Beast Boy |
Malcanis
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.11.26 20:43:00 -
[686]
20:39:16 Combat Your group of Paradise Cruise Missile hits Corpior Bishop, doing 2613.1 damage.
Sorry, but I'm just not seeing a problem here.
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Hyveres
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.11.26 20:47:00 -
[687]
And if you are not in close and scrambled when fighting a missileboat you simply warp out before he can kill you.
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Tippia
Caldari
Raddick Explorations
BlackWater.
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Posted - 2008.11.26 20:48:00 -
[688]
Edited by: Tippia on 26/11/2008 20:52:46
Originally by: Patent Pending
Exactly. If you are hit by a car from behind while you're going 100mph and the guy that hits you is 120mph, you feel the impact as being 20mph. If that crash was head-on, the impact is 220mph worth of hurt. Now do you understand?
Yes. That's not how it works. The missile explodes where your ship is — you ride the shockwave in any direction.
Quote:
Which should not be as per what I put on my previous post.
Given the physics, why? Given the game mechanics, why?
Quote:
Incorrect. Speed is a factor in that velocity vector.
In other words, it is not affected by the speed itself, just like I wrote.
Quote:
Now however, a missile user... if you want to increase your chances of a better hit.. you CANT do anything about it […]
If you're being targeted by a missile user, all you need to do is activate the afterburner.
Yes? Easy to use — easy to avoid. Balance.
Compare to turrets: requires piloting skill to use; therefore requires piloting skills to avoid. Balance!
Quote:
and missiles that always inflict minimal damage vs = sized ships
…which, of course, is to vastly overstate the case. The damage isn't "always minimal" — it's just slightly less — and this is traded against the fact that missiles always inflict damage, however minimal, unlike turrets.
Originally by: Hyveres
And if you are not in close and scrambled when fighting a missileboat you simply warp out before he can kill you.
Yes, and this obviously absolutely not the case for turret ships… nope. Nuh-uh! Nevar! So there!
No sig for me, thankyouverymuch. |
Karille
Gallente
Lordless
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Posted - 2008.11.26 20:50:00 -
[689]
Originally by: Hyveres
And if you are not in close and scrambled when fighting a missileboat you simply warp out before he can kill you.
Apparently you've forgotten about the extreme close range advantage too.
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Patent Pending
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Posted - 2008.11.26 21:01:00 -
[690]
Originally by: Karille
It's not all about that low explosion velocity you see. A Thorax with all skills at level 5 goes 213 base. Its sig radius is 140. If you look at those graphs you'll see that it gets 100% of the damage of rockets and light missiles. It will also take about 90% and 82% of the damage from heavy and heavy assault missiles respectively.
90% and 82% at all ranges except 10km IF you have a webber.
Also, look up the damage reduction if that thorax uses an AB. See how low the damage drops INSTANTLY.
Quote:
These damage reductions are fairly light compared to what happens due to the tracking and falloff of turrets. Thus, missiles do acceptable damage to the same target over a longer range.
Sorry, this is incorrect. It is not 'fairly light'. The damage of a heavy missile hitting that Thorax 50km away when it has its AB on drops to almost half the missile damage.
A medium turret can and will hit that thorax if it uses the correct ammo type to allow it to hit at that range AND the AB speed of that thorax can be tracked by using targeting computers or painters. The attacking ship can also maneouver into a position where the transversal will be significantly lower (flying away from target is a great example).
Yes, using an ammo type for longer range decreases damage.. but not by much when you compare it to the base ammo (0% range bonus/penalty ammo)..and turrets still retain the chance of wrecking hits.
A missile cannot use anything BUT a webber to counter the damage mitigation. A painter does very little to counter speed mitigation and at ranges beyond 10km, there is NOTHING the missile user can do to increase the missile's performance.
Therefore,
Turret users can use painters, maneuver, use targeting computer in midslot and tracking enchancers in lowslots. They can even be boosted remotely by tracking links.
Just using Tech 1 examples, base stats:
Heat Sink: 1.07% damage, 7.5% refire rate bonus
Targeting Comp: 10% tracking bonus 5% optimal range
Tracking Enchancer: 7% tracking bonus, 10% optimal range
Tracking Link: 10% tracking 5% optimal range
Target Painter: 25% sig. increase on target
Targeting Comps and Tracking links can use scripts to significantly boost tracking or optimal range boosts.
Of all of these, only the painter is affected by target's range on the bonus it provides. With decent skills a painter can perform rather well out to 60km.
... all this to improve their tracking and damage output.
Missiles?
Ballistic Control Unit
Webber
Painter
Thats it. Webber is 10km range, Painter has very little effect on a cruise missile hitting a battleship size target when it comes to damage increase. Range is 60km which is less than half of the max range of the cruise missile.
Plus take into account that for long range combat, a missile does take a dozen or more seconds to reach the target whereas turrets apply damage instantly.
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Ayanami Ginaz
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Posted - 2008.11.26 21:19:00 -
[691]
Edited by: Ayanami Ginaz on 26/11/2008 21:19:39
lol
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Patent Pending
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Posted - 2008.11.26 21:20:00 -
[692]
Edited by: Patent Pending on 26/11/2008 21:23:26
Originally by: Tippia
The missile explodes where your ship is ù you ride the shockwave in any direction.
You really don't get it do you?
Quote:
Given the physics, why? Given the game mechanics, why?
You do not understand physics to begin with.
Quote:
In other words, it is not affected by the speed itself, just like I wrote.
Nor do you understand basic math either. 'Not affected' oh my god...
Quote:
Yes? Easy to use ù easy to avoid. Balance.
Quote:
Compare to turrets: requires piloting skill to use; therefore requires piloting skills to avoid. Balance!
If you imply that AB is a counter to missiles then you conveniently forget that AB also provides many other benefits to its user. Speed with which to control the range of the engagement for example. AB is not a counter to missiles only. It is not balanced.
Piloting skill to avoid missiles? LOL. Warp off before they reach you or turn on the AB.
Quote:
The damage isn't "always minimal" ù it's just slightly less ù and this is traded against the fact that missiles always inflict damage, however minimal, unlike turrets.
Id hardly call 40% damage reduction of missile vs same sized ship 'slightly less' if that ship uses an AB. Oh, and here's a thought : Turrets always apply damage instantly. Missiles do not. Unlike turrets, a missile user can see his target just..warp off.
Originally by: Hyveres
And if you are not in close and scrambled when fighting a missileboat you simply warp out before he can kill you.
Quote:
Yes, and this obviously absolutely not the case for turret shipsà nope. Nuh-uh! Nevar! So there!
No it isnt. A missile ship can be killed by a turret ship before it can warp off. Instant damage by turrets. Ask any caracal or stealth bomber pilot.. they can tell you just how many times they fire their missiles, and have to warp off or are dead by turret fire before their missiles reach the target (oh, and btw, missiles do not damage target is the person that fired them warps off-grid or cloaks.. this is something that does not happen with turrets).
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Karille
Gallente
Lordless
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Posted - 2008.11.26 21:25:00 -
[693]
Originally by: Patent Pending
Originally by: Karille
It's not all about that low explosion velocity you see. A Thorax with all skills at level 5 goes 213 base. Its sig radius is 140. If you look at those graphs you'll see that it gets 100% of the damage of rockets and light missiles. It will also take about 90% and 82% of the damage from heavy and heavy assault missiles respectively.
90% and 82% at all ranges except 10km IF you have a webber.
Also, look up the damage reduction if that thorax uses an AB. See how low the damage drops INSTANTLY.
Quote:
These damage reductions are fairly light compared to what happens due to the tracking and falloff of turrets. Thus, missiles do acceptable damage to the same target over a longer range.
Sorry, this is incorrect. It is not 'fairly light'. The damage of a heavy missile hitting that Thorax 50km away when it has its AB on drops to almost half the missile damage.
I said fairly light compared to what happens because of transversal. Missile damage can be reduced significantly by speed, but can not be reduced any farther by using piloting skill.
Yes, turret users can use tracking computers, they can have have tracking disruptors used against them. I'd call that a fair trade. If missiles got a precision and explosion velocity module i wouldn't complain but i would expect to receive a way to break it.
In the end it looks like you want to be using turrets, so why don't you?
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Patent Pending
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Posted - 2008.11.26 21:44:00 -
[694]
Edited by: Patent Pending on 26/11/2008 21:53:23
Edited by: Patent Pending on 26/11/2008 21:46:12
Originally by: Karille
I said fairly light compared to what happens because of transversal. Missile damage can be reduced significantly by speed, but can not be reduced any farther by using piloting skill.
That's because it is not in game. That is what im asking for and a counterbalance bonus for the missile. See missile volley coming in? Fly away from missiles to get maximum mitigation. Take the hit on the side/top/belly (90 degree hit)? no mitigation. Take it in the face? damage bonus. A small ship can fly away from the slower missiles quickly (aka torps) and receive almost full damage mitigation for example.
Also, you do have to admit that for a turret in order to suffer the same massive damage loss the missiles suffer by just having an AB switched on; their target ship, if its the same size as their gun size, that ship must have a freaking HUGE transversal speed with no increase to its signature. AkA a cruiser using a 100mn AB kind of fit or a very fast cruiser orbiting at point blank range against someone using long range guns (beams/rails/artilleries).
Quote:
Yes, turret users can use tracking computers, they can have have tracking disruptors used against them. I'd call that a fair trade.
No it is not. A tracking disruptor does not provide the ship with a speed boost nor is it effective against drones or missiles. It is not a fair trade when you compare the effects and benefits of an AB to the effects and benefits of a tracking disruptor. Think: AB provides much higher transversal speeds hence it acts as a tracking disruptor too.
Quote:
If missiles got a precision and explosion velocity module i wouldn't complain but i would expect to receive a way to break it.
Precision is not an issue if sig size is removed from the missile calculations. It isn't an issue now anyways regardless. Do consider a frigate will fly fast enough without an AB to mitigate practically the entire damage of a cruise missile. Unless it takes the hit in the face (equivalent of 0 transversal which would make it the equivalent of a wrecking hit in turrets).
Explosion velocity modules would create an exploitable issue as you could cram a ship with them and have a torpedo volley wtf-instapop cruisers and frigates regardless of if it hits them in the face or in the butt.
That is why I do not ask for these but rather to remove sig size and have the missile mitigation be based on front/side/rear impact calculation.
Quote:
In the end it looks like you want to be using turrets, so why don't you?
Because I've spent a long time specializing in missiles and missile ships (no i do not run missions or do much pve) and I want them to be viable, balanced and fair vs turrets.
What I ask for is not overpowering to missiles nor unfair to turret users. Each has its strengths and weaknesses, each one unique.
|
Tippia
Caldari
Raddick Explorations
BlackWater.
|
Posted - 2008.11.26 21:47:00 -
[695]
Originally by: Patent Pending
You really don't get it do you?
[…]
You do not understand physics to begin with.
Yes I do. You do not. You're arguing that the missiles should do damage according to a model that isn't in the game. You give no reason why it should change.
Quote:
Nor do you understand basic math either. 'Not affected' oh my god...
Vector ≠ scalar. No, it is not affected by the scalar because the scalar could be pretty much any value, and still result in anything from no damage at all to full damage. What matters is the vector.
Quote:
If you imply that AB is a counter to missiles
Nope.
Quote:
you conveniently forget that AB also provides many other benefits to its user. Speed with which to control the range of the engagement for example. AB is not a counter to missiles only.
Quite true: it is not a counter to missiles — it is a counter to all kinds of weaponry, from ewar to slug throwers, to lasers, to missiles, to drones…
Quote:
Piloting skill to avoid missiles? LOL. Warp off before they reach you or turn on the AB.
Ehm. Yes? You agree with me, then. Good. Like I said: easy to use; easy to avoid.
Quote:
Id hardly call 40% damage reduction of missile vs same sized ship 'slightly less' if that ship uses an AB.
…and as it happens, the same holds true for maneuvering against turrets using an AB.
Quote:
Quote:
Yes, and this obviously absolutely not the case for turret ships… nope. Nuh-uh! Nevar! So there!
No it isnt.
So you're claiming that if a turret ship doesn't have you scrambled, you still can't warp off… Interesting. Re-read what he wrote, and what I answered.
No sig for me, thankyouverymuch. |
Patent Pending
|
Posted - 2008.11.26 22:21:00 -
[696]
Edited by: Patent Pending on 26/11/2008 22:26:29
Edited by: Patent Pending on 26/11/2008 22:23:13
Originally by: Tippia
You do not. You're arguing that the missiles should do damage according to a model that isn't in the game.You give no reason why it should change.
Which is why im asking for it to be changed and gave the reasons why. Do read my post again.
Quote:
Vector ≠ scalar. No, it is not affected by the scalar because the scalar could be pretty much any value, and still result in anything from no damage at all to full damage. What matters is the vector.
*sigh*. increase the speed in transversal equation and you see a direct increase in the transversal result. 'does not affect it' ? c'mon now. its the primary factor in it.
Quote:
Quite true: it is not a counter to missiles ù it is a counter to all kinds of weaponry, from ewar to slug throwers, to lasers, to missiles, to dronesà
Really? Please do show me where a 0 transversal, 10ms ship receives any less damage than a ship at 2k m/s, 0 transversal when being fired at by a turret of = size to the ship (medium vs cruiser).
My point is, you click on the AB, receive full damage mitigation from missile of = size to ship. Now. In the game. What I want is for that to change so that the target has to steer away from the missile to receive the mitigation.
Think also of how it changes combat dynamics overall. Its poetic in a way:
Turrets: Receive best mitigation when taking turret hits on 'the broadside' (high transversal means the ship is not facing nor flying directly away from the other ship) and do the best damage when inflicting a 'raking' fire (0 transversal meaning target is static in relation to the attacking ship or is flying straight AT or away from, the attacker).
Missiles: receive best mitigation when flying away from the target (rear aspect hit), receive damage bonus only when target ship is hit from a frontal aspect, receives mitigation based on angle of impact when hit from the broadside (something like if from the side at a 45 degree angle rearward = half the mitigation of a rear shot, hit 45 degrees front = half the bonus of a frontal shot).
Quote:
Ehm. Yes? You agree with me, then. Good. Like I said: easy to use; easy to avoid.
Incorrect again. Duel a missile ship from 80km. Select 'keep at distance' or 'approach'. Hit the AB. Fire turrets.
In the 15 seconds it takes for the first missile volley to fly those 80km your turrets will have hit the missile ship 5 times or more. Fly-to or approach will give you the lowest transversal speed to increase your damage ability.
When the missiles do hit, they receive full mitigation becuause of AB speed. Though chances are the missile user will warp off before the 2nd or 3rd volley hit as you'll have a significant advantage.
Do you consider 'approach' and clicking an AB to be 'difficult'?
Quote:
and as it happens, the same holds true for maneuvering against turrets using an AB.
No, that depends on the range primarily (range/tracking stats of turret/etc). Range is something that takes time to achieve. Missile mitigation via AB is instantly applied no matter the range or vector. A not so fast ship is easy to track farther away than it is at point blank. Flying close in or away from that ideal range takes time.
Quote:
So you're claiming that if a turret ship doesn't have you scrambled, you still can't warp offà Interesting. Re-read what he wrote, and what I answered.
See my example of the missile vs turret ship duel. Your turret ship will have maximum missile damage mitigation just by having the AB on and it will have hit the missile ship 5 times or more before the first missile volley hits you.
Which does more damage tell me? 5+ volleys of your turrets at minimal transversal or 1 missile volley who'se damage is cut almost by half just because the AB is on?
(and I wont even get into if you have defender missiles or a smartbomb to blow the missiles before they hit you).
|
Opertone
Caldari
SIEGE.
|
Posted - 2008.11.26 23:33:00 -
[697]
missiles are fubared
23:25:07 Combat Group of Caldari Navy Juggernaut Torpedo hit Pith Usurper for 3142 damage.
23:23:04 Combat Group of Juggernaut Rage Torpedo hit Pith Usurper for 2969 damage.
CN torp explosion velocity 117,73 m/s, explosion radius 450 m, DMG 705.57575 HP, damage reduction factor
Rage torp explosion velocity 101.15 m/sec, explosion radius 650 m, DMG 786.096 HP, damage reduction factor 5.2
target Pith usurper, 700 m signature, 92 m/s velocity, painted with 34,5% bonus, webbed with dual SW-900
where is the magic? |
Patent Pending
|
Posted - 2008.11.27 00:52:00 -
[698]
wouldn't it be nice to attack that pith usurper, and have your torpedoe's strike it as it turns 180 away from you and see:
23:24:07 Combat Group of Caldari Navy Juggernaut Torpedo hit Pith Usurper at full bow for 5120 damage.
23:25:07 Combat Group of Caldari Navy Juggernaut Torpedo hit Pith Usurper at 45degree bow for 4120 damage.
23:26:07 Combat Group of Caldari Navy Juggernaut Torpedo hit Pith Usurper on broadside for 3120 damage.
23:27:07 Combat Group of Caldari Navy Juggernaut Torpedo hit Pith Usurper at 45degree aft for 2120 damage.
23:28:07 Combat Group of Caldari Navy Juggernaut Torpedo hit Pith Usurper full aft for 1250 damage.
|
Tippia
Caldari
Raddick Explorations
BlackWater.
|
Posted - 2008.11.27 09:46:00 -
[699]
Originally by: Patent Pending
*sigh*. increase the speed in transversal equation and you see a direct increase in the transversal result. 'does not affect it' ? c'mon now. its the primary factor in it.
No. You see, you keep forgetting this tiiiiiiny factor called range.
The scalar doesn't matter because it could be 1m/s and have a huge effect, or it can be 15,000m/s and have no effect at all. All because of range. Primary factor? Not even close.
hit chance = 0.5^( speed sin(off-angle) / (range + tracking) )¦ + (max(0,range-optimal) / falloff)¦ )
Notice how speed appears in one place? Notice how it can be completely nullified by the angle off-target (i.e. the vector)? Notice how the speed can also be almost completely counteracted by the range and the tracking? Notice how there are two independent terms to the formula — just because one is zero doesn't mean you have a 100% hit chance. Notice how range appears as a factor in both terms?
No. The speed is not important — the vector is, including its location in space.
Quote:
Really? Please do show me where a 0 transversal, 10ms ship receives any less damage than a ship at 2k m/s, 0 transversal when being fired at by a turret of = size to the ship (medium vs cruiser).
You see, you keep forgetting this tiiiiiiny factor called range.
The AB lets me dictate range to either get too close or too far away for you to hit me. This includes moving in and out of falloff, which (omgz!) means you start taking less damage even at 0 transversal.
Quote:
Do you consider 'approach' and clicking an AB to be 'difficult'?
Like I said, easy to use; easy to avoid. I don't know where you got the idea that I said anything else, and why you keep giving me examples of how easy it is to avoid missiles as a counterpoint to my claim that it is easy to avoid missiles.
And no, selecting "approach" is not a good way to use a turret ships, so if you were trying to use that as a counter-argument to my saying turrets are difficult to use, then you've only managed to prove that you don't understand how turrets work. You see, you keep forgetting this tiiiiiiny factor called range… (Not to mention the stupidity of letting the enemy completely dictate the transversal).
Quote:
No, that depends on the range primarily (range/tracking stats of turret/etc). Range is something that takes time to achieve. Missile mitigation via AB is instantly applied no matter the range or vector. A not so fast ship is easy to track farther away than it is at point blank. Flying close in or away from that ideal range takes time.
You see, you keep forgetting this tiii… oh wait, you remembered it now that it served your purpose.
…which doesn't change the fact that an AB can be used to counter to everything. Oh, and the mitigation isn't instant either — you need to accelerate first, which takes time.
Quote:
See my example of the missile vs turret ship duel. Your turret ship will have maximum missile damage mitigation just by having the AB on and it will have hit the missile ship 5 times or more before the first missile volley hits you.
…which, of course, has nothing to do with the fact that you can warp away from turret ships just as well as you can warp away from missile ships. Since you obviously didn't read what you were responding to, I'll repeat it here for your convenience:
Hyveres: If you're so far away that a missile ship cannot scramble you, you can just warp off to avoid death.
Me: The same is true for turret ships.
You: No, you cannot warp of against turrets ships that haven't locked you down!!
(Yes, I'm very well aware that this wasn't your point, but given the context, that was what your answer meant, whether you wanted it to or not. That's why I asked you to read it again.)
No sig for me, thankyouverymuch. |
Opertone
Caldari
SIEGE.
|
Posted - 2008.11.27 11:48:00 -
[700]
stop arguing, transversal velocity is the wrong parameter!
angular speed is what affects your targeting... your guns have tracking 0.0433, your target has angular speed 0.0867.
your guns will have tracking problems, but if the target is large enough gun signature resolution 400 m and target signature is 1800 m, you will have a decent chance to hit it.
if the target is small 180 m, you may still hit it occasionally, because it is within optimal + falloff, the numbers are very small but not absolute 0.
transversal debate is wrong and belongs to another topic, please don't forget that to properly account for transversal speed you need to know the distance to the target, simply where angular is more obvious measurement, which shows angle per second.
|
Karille
Gallente
Lordless
|
Posted - 2008.11.27 11:50:00 -
[701]
It's very relevant to this discussion because it is what missiles are balanced against. They don't have to account for it so they deal less damage over all ranges.
|
Tippia
Caldari
Raddick Explorations
BlackWater.
|
Posted - 2008.11.27 12:25:00 -
[702]
Edited by: Tippia on 27/11/2008 12:28:49
Originally by: Opertone
stop arguing, transversal velocity is the wrong parameter!
…which is why I keep harping on about range.
The angular speed is simply transversal / range, and shows up as such in the first term of the tracking formula:
0.5^( speed sin(off-angle) / (range + tracking) )¦ + (max(0,range-optimal) / falloff)¦ )
The bolded part can be rewritten as (transversal / range) / tracking, and since transversal / range = angular speed, the tracking formula could just as well be written as:
0.5^( (angular / tracking)¦ + (Δoptimal / falloff)¦ )
…and of course, the tracking parameter could be broken down into the relationship between sig resolution, sig size and turret accuracy, but that would clutter up the formula and make it less clear for the purpose of discussing the role of range.
No sig for me, thankyouverymuch. |
Opertone
Caldari
SIEGE.
|
Posted - 2008.11.27 15:57:00 -
[703]
not to be captain obvious, what do you think CCP did to your missiles?
F***ed with missiles again
Fiddled, failed, fiasco
hmmm, does this answer the question of the original poster? |
Khamal Jolstien
Caldari
Product Number 3
|
Posted - 2008.11.27 16:29:00 -
[704]
Originally by: Opertone
not to be captain obvious, what do you think CCP did to your missiles?
F***ed with missiles again
Fiddled, failed, fiasco
hmmm, does this answer the question of the original poster?
Pretty much. The point now is to keep reminding them that their version of "balance" is not only flawed, but plain not fun.
|
Tobin Shalim
Vulcan Foundry
OPUS Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.11.27 16:44:00 -
[705]
Originally by: Sylper Illysten
Ok, so now that missiles can't hit smaller targets, can we bring their damage inline with guns? I mean that was the trade off wasn't it? Now that misisles are restricted to targets of the same size it seems that the dps should be modified to be inline with outher weapons systems.
best post in this whole damn thread. CCP, listen to this guy.
-----
Originally by: Haakkon
I feel a great deal of patriotism at being a part of Goonswarm. We've accomplished great things... we're just mainly jerks about it
|
Karille
Gallente
Lordless
|
Posted - 2008.11.27 16:49:00 -
[706]
Originally by: Tobin Shalim
Originally by: Sylper Illysten
Ok, so now that missiles can't hit smaller targets, can we bring their damage inline with guns? I mean that was the trade off wasn't it? Now that misisles are restricted to targets of the same size it seems that the dps should be modified to be inline with outher weapons systems.
best post in this whole damn thread. CCP, listen to this guy.
Its a shame they are in line. A very straight line.
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Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
|
Posted - 2008.11.27 17:41:00 -
[707]
Originally by: Sylper Illysten
Ok, so now that missiles can't hit smaller targets, can we bring their damage inline with guns? I mean that was the trade off wasn't it? Now that misisles are restricted to targets of the same size it seems that the dps should be modified to be inline with outher weapons systems.
If you think that missiles do poor damage then either:
a) You're obsessed by EFT DPS numbers and have no idea about the importance of force projection or how to apply EFT numbers to realistic in-game situations
b) You fly failfits.
c) You have terrible skills.
d) You insist on firing kinetic missiles at T2 Gallente ships.
e) All of the above, with general cluelessness to boot.
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Troezar
Fatality.
|
Posted - 2008.11.27 17:54:00 -
[708]
Most MMO's I have played fail at tweaking balancing because they try to do it by:
a, Changing too many things at once
b, By making huge changes rather than a number of smaller ones
This leads to:
c, Breaking things
d, Overshooting the balance-point (see c)
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Creh Ester
|
Posted - 2008.11.27 19:06:00 -
[709]
Edited by: Creh Ester on 27/11/2008 19:14:28
Patent Pending, I'm sorry but I don't like your idea. Feels meaningless and very complicated.
As for the rest I'm going to repeat what I said in a much longer post in the other thread. I don't think the problem area is the missiles. I think Caldari is.
Weapon damage may be sort of roughly 'balanced' now, but that makes the total situation un-balanced.
Nag about it for a few years and CCP will eventually look into Caldari slots and grids, and fix them. Then everything will be fine. But missions won't ever be as fast and easy again. So,.. Quit this game.
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Bud Johnson
Tacos Revolution
CODE RED ALLIANCE
|
Posted - 2008.11.27 19:14:00 -
[710]
Originally by: HankMurphy
with quantum rise they completely changed the game foundations. subtle tweaks that have been made over several years were wiped and we started from zero.
Metal Gear?!
|
Khamal Jolstien
Caldari
Product Number 3
|
Posted - 2008.11.27 19:42:00 -
[711]
Originally by: Gypsio III
Originally by: Sylper Illysten
Ok, so now that missiles can't hit smaller targets, can we bring their damage inline with guns? I mean that was the trade off wasn't it? Now that misisles are restricted to targets of the same size it seems that the dps should be modified to be inline with outher weapons systems.
If you think that missiles do poor damage then either:
a) You're obsessed by EFT DPS numbers and have no idea about the importance of force projection or how to apply EFT numbers to realistic in-game situations
b) You fly failfits.
c) You have terrible skills.
d) You insist on firing kinetic missiles at T2 Gallente ships.
e) All of the above, with general cluelessness to boot.
Unfortunately realistic in-game situations point to the glaring deficiencies in the current missile mechanics.
Shield boats die due to requiring yet another middle slot.
DPS is pathetic, especially against afterburning targets.
Still has old drawbacks that made missiles second rate to other weapon systems in pvp.
Point out to me where the changes are acceptable? Sure I can damage nanos now, but i suffer against everything else. And damage is still lolfail agianst the nanos.
|
Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
|
Posted - 2008.11.28 00:15:00 -
[712]
Edited by: Gypsio III on 28/11/2008 00:21:52
Originally by: Khamal Jolstien
Unfortunately realistic in-game situations point to the glaring deficiencies in the current missile mechanics.
Shield boats die due to requiring yet another middle slot.
DPS is pathetic, especially against afterburning targets.
Still has old drawbacks that made missiles second rate to other weapon systems in pvp.
Point out to me where the changes are acceptable? Sure I can damage nanos now, but i suffer against everything else. And damage is still lolfail agianst the nanos.
No, you don't require another midslot.
No, stop looking at EFT numbers in isolation. Missile force projection is excellent.
Stop obsessing about these mythical unwebbable ABing failfits.
Imagine how a blaster/AC boat pilot feels, unable to get to optimal as quickly, and then unable to stay there because of nerfed webs.
|
Core Researcher
|
Posted - 2008.11.28 01:44:00 -
[713]
Originally by: Gypsio III
Originally by: Khamal Jolstien
Unfortunately realistic in-game situations point to the glaring deficiencies in the current missile mechanics.
Shield boats die due to requiring yet another middle slot.
DPS is pathetic, especially against afterburning targets.
Still has old drawbacks that made missiles second rate to other weapon systems in pvp.
Point out to me where the changes are acceptable? Sure I can damage nanos now, but i suffer against everything else. And damage is still lolfail agianst the nanos.
No, you don't require another midslot.
No, stop looking at EFT numbers in isolation. Missile force projection is excellent.
Stop obsessing about these mythical unwebbable ABing failfits.
Imagine how a blaster/AC boat pilot feels, unable to get to optimal as quickly, and then unable to stay there because of nerfed webs.
Wait, so we DONT need a target painter and/or a web now? So what are all these other people on about?
Where does EFT come into it? Missiles have (for a long long time) been inferior to all other weapon types in pvp, this has improved the situation how exactly?
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Lady Karma
|
Posted - 2008.11.28 01:49:00 -
[714]
Originally by: Core Researcher
Wait, so we DONT need a target painter and/or a web now? So what are all these other people on about?
Where does EFT come into it? Missiles have (for a long long time) been inferior to all other weapon types in pvp, this has improved the situation how exactly?
Have you ever used any other type of weapon besides missiles, because it certainly doesn't sound like it.
Constant dps over range with specific damage type has been a huge advantage over turrets.
For comparison try running a level 4 in a tempest with max skills, the 3 month old raven pilot will finish before you.
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5pinDizzy
Amarr
Umpteenth Podding
|
Posted - 2008.11.28 03:47:00 -
[715]
Cross train to Amarr my Caldari allies.
As an Ammarrian I'd just like to say:
Mega Tachyon beams will flatten any cruiser outside around 13km with top skills and we murder dozens of frigates like the little insects they are because they are all one shot sniper food even by a single turret in most missions due to them usually being sat 80km away from warp in where turret tracking doesn't mean jack.
Caldari seem to have almost kicked the bucket, if their ewar gets nerfed next aswell then you might aswell scrap the whole race.
So come to Amarr, because now the Apocalypse is worth 2 of the Raven and the Abaddon would murder pretty much any other battleship in the game, letalone the Rokh.
Don't also forget your one off payment for Amarr tech 1 ammo that works great enough to do without tech 2 that lasts forever.
Our days being the underdog seem quite behind us now.
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Tobin Shalim
Vulcan Foundry
OPUS Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.11.28 05:19:00 -
[716]
Originally by: Gypsio III
d) You insist on firing kinetic missiles at T2 Gallente ships.
kind of a problem, since all our ships give bonuses to kinetic missiles, hence that's what any Caldari pvp pilot would be using.
-----
Originally by: Haakkon
I feel a great deal of patriotism at being a part of Goonswarm. We've accomplished great things... we're just mainly jerks about it
|
Tippia
Caldari
Raddick Explorations
BlackWater.
|
Posted - 2008.11.28 06:33:00 -
[717]
Originally by: Tobin Shalim
Originally by: Gypsio III
d) You insist on firing kinetic missiles at T2 Gallente ships.
kind of a problem, since all our ships give bonuses to kinetic missiles, hence that's what any Caldari pvp pilot would be using.
…which leads back to the whole point of EFT myopia. The DPS output looks good on paper but is a completely irrelevant number until you figure out what it's applied against.
That T2 Gallente ship can have en weakness to explosives that is somewhere along the lines of 5x as large as it is against kinetic damage. So you makes your choices and takes you chances:
125% kinetic damage against 85% kinetic resists (hits for 19% of base damage), or
100% explosive damage against 10% explosive resists (hits for 90% of base damage).
So no, I don't think a Caldari PvP pilot would use kinetic missiles, unless he was rather daft (and, quite soon, rather dead) — he'd use what he thinks is the best damage type, moment to moment, against the kind of enemy he's facing.
No sig for me, thankyouverymuch. |
Severe Admin
Blind Industries
|
Posted - 2008.11.28 06:43:00 -
[718]
FAIL THREAD IS FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIILLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL.
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Flossing
|
Posted - 2008.11.28 07:59:00 -
[719]
Originally by: Miss Marketing
So carebears was nerfing speed ships worth you ability to make money easily?
errm i dont think it was carebears asking for speed nerf, but pvpers.
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Severe Admin
Blind Industries
|
Posted - 2008.11.28 08:08:00 -
[720]
this was mostly carebears and carebear devs bringing the speed "in line" with what it "should be" even tho they left it "broken" forever and ever. Pvprs did not ask for this nerf, i refer you to the epic no nano nerf thread which ccp totally ignored because 80percent of eve lives in empire and cried for the nerf. Even if all of 0.0 cryed for a nerf it wouldnt happen not enough peoples subscriptions on the line. The funny part is now they are whining about the missile nerf which they brought upon themselvs.
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Khamal Jolstien
Caldari
Product Number 3
|
Posted - 2008.11.28 08:36:00 -
[721]
Originally by: Severe Admin
this was mostly carebears and carebear devs bringing the speed "in line" with what it "should be" even tho they left it "broken" forever and ever. Pvprs did not ask for this nerf, i refer you to the epic no nano nerf thread which ccp totally ignored because 80percent of eve lives in empire and cried for the nerf. Even if all of 0.0 cryed for a nerf it wouldnt happen not enough peoples subscriptions on the line. The funny part is now they are whining about the missile nerf which they brought upon themselvs.
Pretty much. Just gonna keep at it until they fix their mistake. Not a carebear, but I wouldn't mind missiles being a useful weapon for Caldari.
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Severe Admin
Blind Industries
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Posted - 2008.11.28 09:09:00 -
[722]
Edited by: Severe Admin on 28/11/2008 09:10:18
what the calamaris are missing is that guns miss way more than missiles. you wanna up missile damage? So fine up gun damage dps and make it so guns hit everytime like missiles do. Only fair 
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Opertone
Caldari
SIEGE.
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Posted - 2008.11.28 14:43:00 -
[723]
Originally by: 5pinDizzy
Edited by: 5pinDizzy on 28/11/2008 04:01:02
Edited by: 5pinDizzy on 28/11/2008 03:57:13
Cross train to Amarr my Caldari allies.
As an Ammarrian I'd just like to say:
Mega Tachyon beams will flatten any cruiser outside around 13km with top skills and we murder dozens of frigates like the little insects they are because they are all one shot sniper food even by a single turret in most missions due to them usually being sat 80km away from warp in where turret tracking doesn't mean jack.
Caldari seem to have almost kicked the bucket, if their ewar gets nerfed next aswell then you might aswell scrap the whole race.
So come to Amarr, because now the Apocalypse is worth 2 of the Raven and the Abaddon would murder pretty much any other battleship in the game, letalone the Rokh.
Don't also forget your one off payment for Amarr tech 1 ammo that works great enough to do without tech 2 that lasts forever.
Our days being the underdog seem quite behind us now.
[EDIT1]Oh hang on I haven't took my Amarr Battleship out for a spin since the Quantum Rise patch, too busy lolling at the Raven. Wonder if its tracking got nerfed, bet it did. I'll go have a look.
[EDIT2]No, just seem to be all about missiles, hahahahahahah, sucks for you guys.
brilliant
and now i want to hit BS with cruise, cruisers with heavies and frigates with lights, now please unnerf my rockets.
agreed on ammar |
Khamal Jolstien
Caldari
Product Number 3
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Posted - 2008.11.28 18:01:00 -
[724]
Originally by: Severe Admin
Edited by: Severe Admin on 28/11/2008 09:10:18
what the calamaris are missing is that guns miss way more than missiles. you wanna up missile damage? So fine up gun damage dps and make it so guns hit everytime like missiles do. Only fair
Sure. As long as you make missiles hit instantly and have potential for wrecking hits.
Only fair
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Severe Admin
Blind Industries
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Posted - 2008.11.28 18:07:00 -
[725]
Edited by: Severe Admin on 28/11/2008 18:07:39
ok while your at it make guns take no cap and need no tracking modules. whapow*
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Khamal Jolstien
Caldari
Product Number 3
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Posted - 2008.11.28 18:47:00 -
[726]
Originally by: Severe Admin
Edited by: Severe Admin on 28/11/2008 18:07:39
ok while your at it make guns take no cap and need no tracking modules. whapow*
Lol oops, but now they're useless as soon as the target starts moving in any direction.
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Severe Admin
Blind Industries
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Posted - 2008.11.28 19:02:00 -
[727]
perhaps if you have fail skills like yourself/
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Leyvan
Stand Vyritza
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Posted - 2008.11.28 19:33:00 -
[728]
Turrets does'nt have wrecking since of QR.
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Al Drevika
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Posted - 2008.11.30 18:28:00 -
[729]
I keep hearing about 3 month newbie Raven pilots doing L4 missions. I'd like someone to explain how you can get qualified to fly the raven, run T2 equipment, have enough missile skills to get through the L3 missions with the Drake, etc, without 10 billion ISK in implants (and, uh, with 10 billion in implants.. how does a newbie make 10 billion in the first few weeks).
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Karille
Gallente
Cold Templars
Templar Initiative
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Posted - 2008.11.30 18:38:00 -
[730]
Originally by: Al Drevika
I keep hearing about 3 month newbie Raven pilots doing L4 missions. I'd like someone to explain how you can get qualified to fly the raven, run T2 equipment, have enough missile skills to get through the L3 missions with the Drake, etc, without 10 billion ISK in implants (and, uh, with 10 billion in implants.. how does a newbie make 10 billion in the first few weeks).
Well, in EVEMon i went to one of my caldari throwaway alts, picked the best rated raven and drake loadouts from the battleclinic loadouts and added the needed skills to the plan. Throw in the learning skills and it came out to 102 days. No implants at all.
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Drik Drevani
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Posted - 2008.12.01 02:40:00 -
[731]
Originally by: Karille
Originally by: Al Drevika
I keep hearing about 3 month newbie Raven pilots doing L4 missions. I'd like someone to explain how you can get qualified to fly the raven, run T2 equipment, have enough missile skills to get through the L3 missions with the Drake, etc, without 10 billion ISK in implants (and, uh, with 10 billion in implants.. how does a newbie make 10 billion in the first few weeks).
Well, in EVEMon i went to one of my caldari throwaway alts, picked the best rated raven and drake loadouts from the battleclinic loadouts and added the needed skills to the plan. Throw in the learning skills and it came out to 102 days. No implants at all.
What levels for Target Nav Pred? Shield Ops and Shield Tac Manip? Engineering? I'm sure you could run T1 stuff, but it would be fail to run L4s with T1 gear and T1-level skills.
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Karille
Gallente
Cold Templars
Templar Initiative
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Posted - 2008.12.01 07:07:00 -
[732]
Originally by: Drik Drevani
Originally by: Karille
Originally by: Al Drevika
I keep hearing about 3 month newbie Raven pilots doing L4 missions. I'd like someone to explain how you can get qualified to fly the raven, run T2 equipment, have enough missile skills to get through the L3 missions with the Drake, etc, without 10 billion ISK in implants (and, uh, with 10 billion in implants.. how does a newbie make 10 billion in the first few weeks).
Well, in EVEMon i went to one of my caldari throwaway alts, picked the best rated raven and drake loadouts from the battleclinic loadouts and added the needed skills to the plan. Throw in the learning skills and it came out to 102 days. No implants at all.
What levels for Target Nav Pred? Shield Ops and Shield Tac Manip? Engineering? I'm sure you could run T1 stuff, but it would be fail to run L4s with T1 gear and T1-level skills.
That's with T2 tanking gear and T1 launchers, but you're right I forgot some missile support skills. That brings it up to 106 days to get them to level 3.
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EFT Warrior
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Posted - 2008.12.01 08:37:00 -
[733]
Adapt or die.
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Khamal Jolstien
Caldari
Product Number 3
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Posted - 2008.12.03 02:32:00 -
[734]
Originally by: EFT Warrior
Adapt or die.
Give us an acceptable adaptation that doesn't require us changing to guns. I have yet to see a fair compromise, especially since we were adapting to the poor missiles pre-patch.
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Bohoba
Caldari
HolyKnights
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Posted - 2008.12.03 06:29:00 -
[735]
Originally by: Khamal Jolstien
Originally by: EFT Warrior
Adapt or die.
Give us an acceptable adaptation that doesn't require us changing to guns. I have yet to see a fair compromise, especially since we were adapting to the poor missiles pre-patch.
Yep have yet to see one
1 ship 1 gun 1 race ccp is
.......................
10.5 hours a day do you have what it takes ?
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Tippia
Caldari
Raddick Explorations
BlackWater.
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Posted - 2008.12.03 08:51:00 -
[736]
Originally by: Bohoba
Yep have yet to see one
1 ship 1 gun 1 race ccp is
Why not biomass your character over it?
No sig for me, thankyouverymuch. |
Karille
Gallente
Cold Templars
Templar Initiative
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Posted - 2008.12.03 08:53:00 -
[737]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Bohoba
Yep have yet to see one
1 ship 1 gun 1 race ccp is
Why not biomass your character over it?
He doesn't need to, he's mining in empire. Apparently it's the same thing.
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Pohbis
Neo T.E.C.H.
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Posted - 2008.12.03 10:05:00 -
[738]
Originally by: Severe Admin
Edited by: Severe Admin on 28/11/2008 18:07:39
ok while your at it make guns take no cap and need no tracking modules. whapow*
Oh yeah, whapow.
Sick and tired of seeing the transversal argument thrown about like this.
Yeah, guns need to track. Big whapow, they have more DPS and wrecking hits to make up for the misses and you know what? You don't have to worry about transversal when fighting a missile ship, you just need to go full speed and can keep your transversal low for optimal damage.
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Pohbis
Neo T.E.C.H.
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Posted - 2008.12.03 10:19:00 -
[739]
Originally by: Karille
Originally by: Al Drevika
I keep hearing about 3 month newbie Raven pilots doing L4 missions. I'd like someone to explain how you can get qualified to fly the raven, run T2 equipment, have enough missile skills to get through the L3 missions with the Drake, etc, without 10 billion ISK in implants (and, uh, with 10 billion in implants.. how does a newbie make 10 billion in the first few weeks).
Well, in EVEMon i went to one of my caldari throwaway alts, picked the best rated raven and drake loadouts from the battleclinic loadouts and added the needed skills to the plan. Throw in the learning skills and it came out to 102 days. No implants at all.
Well, in EVEMon i went to one of my Gallente throwaway alts, picked the best rated Domi AFK Sentry loadout from the battleclinic loadouts and added the needed skills to the plan. Throw in the learning skills and it came out to 126 days. No implants at all.
... and instead of just 1 type of launchers, he could now use all drones, small, medium and large hybrids.
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Karille
Gallente
Cold Templars
Templar Initiative
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Posted - 2008.12.03 10:29:00 -
[740]
Originally by: Pohbis
Originally by: Karille
Originally by: Al Drevika
I keep hearing about 3 month newbie Raven pilots doing L4 missions. I'd like someone to explain how you can get qualified to fly the raven, run T2 equipment, have enough missile skills to get through the L3 missions with the Drake, etc, without 10 billion ISK in implants (and, uh, with 10 billion in implants.. how does a newbie make 10 billion in the first few weeks).
Well, in EVEMon i went to one of my caldari throwaway alts, picked the best rated raven and drake loadouts from the battleclinic loadouts and added the needed skills to the plan. Throw in the learning skills and it came out to 102 days. No implants at all.
Well, in EVEMon i went to one of my Gallente throwaway alts, picked the best rated Domi AFK Sentry loadout from the battleclinic loadouts and added the needed skills to the plan. Throw in the learning skills and it came out to 126 days. No implants at all.
... and instead of just 1 type of launchers, he could now use all drones, small, medium and large hybrids.
What are you going to make fun of me because i suggested that it was possible? Way to get out of context. I never said other races couldn't do it, only that it was indeed feasible.
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Ratchman
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Posted - 2008.12.03 10:40:00 -
[741]
Am I alone in thinking that EVE hasn't changed that radically?
Yes, some things got nerfed, and other things got boosted, but the game hasn't changed that radically. I can still use a Raven for missions. I had to change a few things, but it still works OK, even against smaller ships.
I have cross-trained in a number of disciplines and I do have to say that the Raven was definately overpowered for mission running compared to other ships, so I see this as an acceptable change. There should never be a ship in any class that is significantly more powerful than its peers.
Level 4 missions always did take a fair amount of time, so there is nothing new there. I always thought they were really there for multiplayer purposes, if only to cut down on the amount of time spent in the damn things.
Missiles were never the best weapon for PVP, but they can still be effective if you work in a team.
I don't see the point in all the complaining, as I think that although this was a nerf, it was a balanced one. Even if it wasn't, I don't know what you hope to achieve, as if you did get the changes repealed, you'd just have another group of people complaining.
This is one of the problems with MMOs: everyone complains and whines no matter what the developers do. It's always the developers fault, no matter what. You shouldn't take it in such a negative way, but these changes were brought in as the result of previous feedback. This is an evolving universe, and you have to accept that. You can sit there and sulk, or you can provide feedback, or constructive criticism, and help this universe evolve. Just saying "this is bull****" is never going to work, or effect any real change.
The other little detail I would like to add is that part of this change was done to help reduce lag and this is a far more useful change than anything else.
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Pohbis
Neo T.E.C.H.
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Posted - 2008.12.03 10:42:00 -
[742]
Originally by: Karille
What are you going to make fun of me because i suggested that it was possible? Way to get out of context. I never said other races couldn't do it, only that it was indeed feasible.
Well no. It's for everyone bringing up the argument that missiles are easymode and need to suck 'cause every missile-user is a 3-month old noob farming lvl 4s.
I took your example and kept all the variables, except race, the same and gave the result.
I don't see how that's out of context. Your post was made to support the argument that missiles are less skill intensive. I compared it to the other popular mission farming setup and noted that the other setup even gives you access to small and medium weapons in the process.
The fact that I didn't even really have to re-write the thing was just icing on the cake, showing just how generic and applicable to all races that it is.
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Pohbis
Neo T.E.C.H.
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Posted - 2008.12.03 10:50:00 -
[743]
Originally by: Ratchman
I don't see the point in all the complaining, as I think that although this was a nerf, it was a balanced one. Even if it wasn't, I don't know what you hope to achieve, as if you did get the changes repealed, you'd just have another group of people complaining.
I think people are looking at Amarr here.
They complained about their lazors, which even in their state back then were more popular in PvP than missiles, and look were it got them? They got their fitting reqs lowered, RoF increased. Everything keepig them balanced was essentially removed and they are now probably the best weapon system out there.
I don't care about people farming missions. Every goddamn race can farm missions in their ships. I do care that by some twisted logic missiles have to suck in PvP 'cause people use them in missions.
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Khamal Jolstien
Caldari
Product Number 3
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Posted - 2008.12.05 12:01:00 -
[744]
Originally by: Pohbis
Originally by: Ratchman
I don't see the point in all the complaining, as I think that although this was a nerf, it was a balanced one. Even if it wasn't, I don't know what you hope to achieve, as if you did get the changes repealed, you'd just have another group of people complaining.
I think people are looking at Amarr here.
They complained about their lazors, which even in their state back then were more popular in PvP than missiles, and look were it got them? They got their fitting reqs lowered, RoF increased. Everything keepig them balanced was essentially removed and they are now probably the best weapon system out there.
I don't care about people farming missions. Every goddamn race can farm missions in their ships. I do care that by some twisted logic missiles have to suck in PvP 'cause people use them in missions.
It's really to keep the spiteful nano pilots happy. They love the fact that missiles, which were previously awful in pvp anyway, are even worse.
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Mylor Torlone
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Posted - 2008.12.10 18:50:00 -
[745]
Originally by: Pohbis
Originally by: Ratchman
I don't see the point in all the complaining, as I think that although this was a nerf, it was a balanced one. Even if it wasn't, I don't know what you hope to achieve, as if you did get the changes repealed, you'd just have another group of people complaining.
I think people are looking at Amarr here.
They complained about their lazors, which even in their state back then were more popular in PvP than missiles, and look were it got them? They got their fitting reqs lowered, RoF increased. Everything keepig them balanced was essentially removed and they are now probably the best weapon system out there.
I don't care about people farming missions. Every goddamn race can farm missions in their ships. I do care that by some twisted logic missiles have to suck in PvP 'cause people use them in missions.
This. As much as it doesn't make sense, it's basically what happened. Missiles need a purpose other than the punchline of a bad joke. |
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