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wth did you do to my missiles?

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Lone Hitman	Posted - 2008.11.16 04:29:00 - [571] Originally by: Ohmy Fugod But the problem here is, that that npc BS is going at 160m/s. Please explain how would a target painter help here, when the explosion radius was never a problem to begin with. Perhaps a webbing drone would help, then? Berserker SW-900.
Ohmy Fugod	Posted - 2008.11.16 04:40:00 - [572] Originally by: Lone Hitman Perhaps a webbing drone would help, then? Berserker SW-900. Bingo, mine was a rethorical question anyway, you see, everyone and their dogs are repeating: "fit a painter" "train up those missile support skills" like a broken record, but hardly anyone mentioned webifiers. -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ *Quod Natura non dat, Salmantica non praesta*
Pr1ncess Alia Caldari Perkone	Posted - 2008.11.16 04:47:00 - [573] Originally by: Ohmy Fugod Originally by: Lone Hitman Perhaps a webbing drone would help, then? Berserker SW-900. Bingo, mine was a rethorical question anyway, you see, everyone and their dogs are repeating: "fit a painter" "train up those missile support skills" like a broken record, but hardly anyone mentioned webifiers. i can't see anyone wanting to use up valuable drone bay space for ONE webby drone. he isn't going to do much alone and you need the rest of your space for lights when those friggys get in close.
Karl Luckner	Posted - 2008.11.16 05:50:00 - [574] Webs were mentioned, but maybe not direktly. Someone posted something along the lines of "should I go in close combat to hit for full damage ? ..." That pretty much implies, he understood the need for a webber.
Ohmy Fugod	Posted - 2008.11.16 07:08:00 - [575] Originally by: Pr1ncess Alia i can't see anyone wanting to use up valuable drone bay space for ONE webby drone. he isn't going to do much alone and you need the rest of your space for lights when those friggys get in close. Well, that's the problem. On one hand you can carry 2 webs + 5 lights in a Raven's hold. You would though be sacrificing the 5 meds, of course. Which would leave your lights + nerfed cruises Vs medium targets. And if those medium targets are, for instance, 20 to 30km-orbitting, 240 m/s HAC's, vs which your pre-nerf cruises were already dealing less than 100hp/missile, then you will spend hours trying to nail them. They also got high thrm and kin resists, so no, not even hybrids are a solution. But, even more so, if you just ignore webifying drones, then cruise missiles or torps are not even close to being an anti-battleship weapon. Thus, bottom line is, you can train up a crapload of skills, and switch gear around a plenty, and still you'll be miles away from the versatility/effectiveness/efficiency missile boats used to have. I just see this nerf messed with a part of the player community that actually just minded their own business and bothered no one. That particular portion is not a small one, but is indeed a quiet one. -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ *Quod Natura non dat, Salmantica non praesta*
Hornymatt	Posted - 2008.11.16 08:12:00 - [576] Got no problems with the missile changes myself - probably because I'm having fun tinkering with various set ups for the first time in ages. However, it does seem to me that NPC's have been exempted from the changes as thier cruises are hitting my HACs for the same as before. Anyone know if this was intended (couldn't see anything in the official notes) or if it's like when NPC's were still able to MWD in deadspace?
Khamal Jolstien Caldari Product Number 3	Posted - 2008.11.16 08:45:00 - [577] Originally by: Hornymatt Got no problems with the missile changes myself - probably because I'm having fun tinkering with various set ups for the first time in ages. However, it does seem to me that NPC's have been exempted from the changes as thier cruises are hitting my HACs for the same as before. Anyone know if this was intended (couldn't see anything in the official notes) or if it's like when NPC's were still able to MWD in deadspace? I think so. It seems NPCs follow their own rule set, and their weapon behaviors haven't really followed the player changes/nerfs.
Gamesguy Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.11.16 10:31:00 - [578] Edited by: Gamesguy on 16/11/2008 10:31:58 Originally by: Ohmy Fugod Edited by: Ohmy Fugod on 16/11/2008 03:51:37 Originally by: Gamesguy If you're not hitting a painted BS for full damage with cruise, you need to seriously train up some support skills. An NPC battleship, say, a Raven, has a Sig Radius of 300+. I also think there's barely any player BS with a rad of 300 or less. Now, a cruise missile has a basic explosion radius of 300. And an (now) basic explosion velocity of 69 m/s. Let's say you "seriously trained up some support skills", like guided missile precision and target navigation prediction all the way to V. This means your missile has an expl. rad of 225m, and an explo velocity of 103.5m. But the problem here is, that that npc BS is going at 160m/s. Please explain how would a target painter help here, when the explosion radius was never a problem to begin with. Because dumbasses like you didn't realize the missile formula has changed. You've obviously haven't actually tested this or you'd know how ignorant you are. The missile formula is more like the turret formula now, but with more weight towards signature radius. Go test it yourself and realize how you are whining about nothing.
Al Drevika	Posted - 2008.11.16 19:31:00 - [579] Originally by: Cpt Branko Basically, it's not missile or turret PVP which is in trouble, it's solo/very small gang which is really shafted by massively reducing the tackle capabilities of any single ship. I think you hit the nail EXACTLY on the head and got to the heart of what CCP is trying to do. Do I like it? No, I don't play enough to form lifelong relationships with my corp mates, be there for their children's birth (even when they're not there, away running Worlds Collide while their wife is screaming 'where the f* is he?'). Every corp I join tends to collapse in 3-4 months because of the lenient corp war rules. There are a few major tenets to EVE that make it unique (say, compared to WoW): - A true MMORG economy. - Exploration as a career option - A more open-ended focus for corporations/guilds (production, pvp, merc, mining, etc). - HiSec/LowSec differentiation I think CCP has focused too much on PvP and technology balances and not enough in the role of how player cooperation can benefit individual players. Face it- we're all individuals. Whether I join a corp or not depends on what it can do for me, in terms of the play experience. Joint mining is more productive, but lenient corp war rules make it almost not worthwhile compared to NPC corp membership and solo mining. LowSec and 0-sec access? The benefits of low sec just aren't significant enough compared to missioning in high sec. Tempt me. And the nerfing of exploration has turned me away of training for my specops/explorer plan. Yes, a lot of this circles around to the issue of getting us carebears (shudder at the thought, but that's what I am, I suppose) into lowsec. Make it worth our while. Un-nerf exploration, and make exploration less about finding combat complexes than finding interesting loot you can't get ANYWHERE else. And I mean anywhere else. Or introduce a story arc with the loot- new items that, combined with other rare to find artifacts, combine (like a rig) to create something the major factions would pay dearly for. Give me a chance of striking it big with a few more common episodes of small strikes, and I'll run those gatecamps and do it. Think of the early gold miners that took off, went to Placer, CA and spend years, finding a few small nuggets here and there in hopes of finding the "mother lode." Whole corps could form out of the interest to organize explorers to find these artifacts. Introduce artifacts that have unique capabilities, with appropriate drawbacks. I don't know how this would stress CCPs item database, but it would be cool, say with the missile nerf, to have an artifact TP with, say, a 60% signature bonus. Introduce some of those and I'd go to lowsec to find a few to sell. You can get rid of the nerf-whiners, and get a twofer!!! I'm getting to TDLTR territory, so I'll cut it off here and put on the flame-****ant suit. To those who don't agree with me and have nothing substantial to add , I'll just say this: STFU. I don't care to read what you have to say. Say something that adds to the game or shut the piehole. Thanks for the bandwidth and all the fish.
Al Drevika	Posted - 2008.11.16 19:32:00 - [580] LOL... flame- reta__dant suit is edited? C'mon guys... OK, flame-RESISTANT suit. Geez...

KhaniKirai	Posted - 2008.11.16 20:18:00 - [581] Edited by: KhaniKirai on 16/11/2008 20:18:18 All I know is, training t2 cruise missiles is waste of time. And skills + rigs + implants dont overcome those problems. Even a ferox almost does more dps then cruise raven vs pve bs targets.
Opertone Caldari SIEGE. United Legion	Posted - 2008.11.16 23:30:00 - [582] missiles need a boost
UD549	Posted - 2008.11.16 23:45:00 - [583] Yes, my plan is going perfect. Let them think the raven is now horrible at running missions to destroy the next ship on the nerf chart....THE AFK DOMI IS OP CCP, SWING THE NERF BAT AT IT!!!1!!1
Grarr Dexx Amarr The Cosa Nostra La Cosa Nostra Alliance	Posted - 2008.11.16 23:51:00 - [584] Originally by: Opertone missiles need a boost Hits head against wall
Opertone Caldari SIEGE. United Legion	Posted - 2008.11.17 02:11:00 - [585] with current system missiles could use + 20% explo velocity boost, so they can be viable on non caldari ships. something has to do be done about very low explosion velocity, but the new systems works, not perfectly yet, so there is still the need for fixes.
Depopulo	Posted - 2008.11.17 02:56:00 - [586] Originally by: Gamesguy Edited by: Gamesguy on 16/11/2008 10:31:58 Originally by: Ohmy Fugod Edited by: Ohmy Fugod on 16/11/2008 03:51:37 Originally by: Gamesguy If you're not hitting a painted BS for full damage with cruise, you need to seriously train up some support skills. An NPC battleship, say, a Raven, has a Sig Radius of 300+. I also think there's barely any player BS with a rad of 300 or less. Now, a cruise missile has a basic explosion radius of 300. And an (now) basic explosion velocity of 69 m/s. Let's say you "seriously trained up some support skills", like guided missile precision and target navigation prediction all the way to V. This means your missile has an expl. rad of 225m, and an explo velocity of 103.5m. But the problem here is, that that npc BS is going at 160m/s. Please explain how would a target painter help here, when the explosion radius was never a problem to begin with. Because dumbasses like you didn't realize the missile formula has changed. You've obviously haven't actually tested this or you'd know how ignorant you are. The missile formula is more like the turret formula now, but with more weight towards signature radius. Go test it yourself and realize how you are whining about nothing. No..he's not a dumbass..he has a valid point. On a recent ratting excursion with my Torp raven..as long as the NPC BS's were flying under 100 m/sec I would hit for about 315 per torp due to my Torp explosion velocity being around 98 m/sec. When they reached their max speed of 135 m/sec I was hitting the same NPC BS's for about 230 per torp. I just can't stomach the fact that a BS can outrun the explosion speed of a torp warhead. I have target nav prediction at 4. even at 5 they will still outrun. I hope CCP address's this somehow.
Ahmai Skarilukn Minmatar	Posted - 2008.11.17 03:44:00 - [587] Originally by: Hermiat Originally by: Nameless Soldier Cry more please. Delicious tears. Oh, oh, how VERY original. No one has said this yet! OK nameless soldier, i'll give u a name...... how about....... brainless fukwit? Oh, oh, i know i'll use the very tired "Tears" line once again shall i? dude.. your shoulders...
Khamal Jolstien Caldari Product Number 3	Posted - 2008.11.17 20:41:00 - [588] Originally by: Grarr Dexx Originally by: Opertone missiles need a boost Hits head against wall Kind of a silly thing to do when he's right.
Ahmai Skarilukn Minmatar	Posted - 2008.11.17 21:48:00 - [589] As compelled by some of these emoragequits as I am, there is one significant thing you lack to have anything done. A 60 page whine thread. Amarr had one, and look, they're ending up as the new FOTM!!! Maybe if moar people ragewhine about the missile nerf/change/sploit etc. something will happen!!! On a lighter note, can i has ur stuff?
Black Scorpio	Posted - 2008.11.17 21:55:00 - [590] Originally by: Ahmai Skarilukn As compelled by some of these emoragequits as I am, there is one significant thing you lack to have anything done. A 60 page whine thread. Amarr had one, and look, they're ending up as the new FOTM!!! Maybe if moar people ragewhine about the missile nerf/change/sploit etc. something will happen!!! On a lighter note, can i has ur stuff? I don't want the misiles to be the new FOTM, just to be in line with other weapon systems in terms of usefulnes. Seems like things there are "adjusted" on the negative sides only, i.e. making them in-line with the drawbacks of the other weapon systems, but nothing on the positive side.

Gamesguy Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.11.18 00:10:00 - [591] Originally by: Depopulo No..he's not a dumbass..he has a valid point. On a recent ratting excursion with my Torp raven..as long as the NPC BS's were flying under 100 m/sec I would hit for about 315 per torp due to my Torp explosion velocity being around 98 m/sec. When they reached their max speed of 135 m/sec I was hitting the same NPC BS's for about 230 per torp. I just can't stomach the fact that a BS can outrun the explosion speed of a torp warhead. I have target nav prediction at 4. even at 5 they will still outrun. I hope CCP address's this somehow. Have you checked your torp's explosion radius vs the NPC's sig radius yet? Fit a damn painter.
Khamal Jolstien Caldari Product Number 3	Posted - 2008.11.19 07:00:00 - [592] Originally by: Black Scorpio Originally by: Ahmai Skarilukn As compelled by some of these emoragequits as I am, there is one significant thing you lack to have anything done. A 60 page whine thread. Amarr had one, and look, they're ending up as the new FOTM!!! Maybe if moar people ragewhine about the missile nerf/change/sploit etc. something will happen!!! On a lighter note, can i has ur stuff? I don't want the misiles to be the new FOTM, just to be in line with other weapon systems in terms of usefulnes. Seems like things there are "adjusted" on the negative sides only, i.e. making them in-line with the drawbacks of the other weapon systems, but nothing on the positive side. This is the exact same experience I'm getting. Hopefully a fix will be released soon.
Al Drevika	Posted - 2008.11.19 15:21:00 - [593] Exactly. THat's the point. You should be able to use a torp against a BS with reasonable effectiveness, and a torp with supporting skills and a target painter against a cruiser with SOME level of effectiveness. For now, I have refit my CNR with heavy missile launchers, which is a total waste of powergrid. I'm using the Raven over the Drake just for the sake of more drone capacity, that's pretty much it. That's a lot of ISK to pay for 50m3 more drones. It just makes me feel stupid every time I undock in it, but what choice does CCP give me? I need the drones for the extra gank, since I've been nerfed so bad.
Thudin	Posted - 2008.11.19 15:31:00 - [594] Originally by: Al Drevika Exactly. THat's the point. You should be able to use a torp against a BS with reasonable effectiveness, and a torp with supporting skills and a target painter against a cruiser with SOME level of effectiveness. For now, I have refit my CNR with heavy missile launchers, which is a total waste of powergrid. I'm using the Raven over the Drake just for the sake of more drone capacity, that's pretty much it. That's a lot of ISK to pay for 50m3 more drones. It just makes me feel stupid every time I undock in it, but what choice does CCP give me? I need the drones for the extra gank, since I've been nerfed so bad. At a complete loss as to why people are refitting their Gravy Navens when better drone skills and knowing how to use them properly makes the CNR the same killing machine it was.
Empyre Domestic Reform	Posted - 2008.11.19 15:36:00 - [595] I just re-subscribed for a month to check eve out on my new graphics card so I haven't run too many missions. But I ran a guristas WC the other night and I didn't see much difference in how quickly I could clear the NPCS. I did notice I got barely any loot and salvage at all from them. Very little at all. I won't be letting the subscription continue to go.
Karille Gallente Lordless	Posted - 2008.11.19 15:37:00 - [596] Originally by: Black Scorpio I don't want the misiles to be the new FOTM, just to be in line with other weapon systems in terms of usefulnes. Seems like things there are "adjusted" on the negative sides only, i.e. making them in-line with the drawbacks of the other weapon systems, but nothing on the positive side. Positive side: No close range tracking issues Any damage type you want FOF Can't be tracking disrupted (yes we all know about defenders)
Riga Mortiss	Posted - 2008.11.19 17:59:00 - [597] I.. for one.. would dearly love to know if CCP is even considering revisiting the whole missile issue.. Whether it is a "Yes we are looking at a possible restructure" or "NO.. Missile stay as is.. deal with it" response. That would be a thing of much goodness..
Al Drevika	Posted - 2008.11.19 18:05:00 - [598] Originally by: Empyre I did notice I got barely any loot and salvage at all from them. Very little at all. I won't be letting the subscription continue to go. Yes, I noticed that, too. I can't figure out what CCP is thinking at this point.
Furb Killer Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2008.11.19 18:13:00 - [599] Originally by: Riga Mortiss I.. for one.. would dearly love to know if CCP is even considering revisiting the whole missile issue.. Whether it is a "Yes we are looking at a possible restructure" or "NO.. Missile stay as is.. deal with it" response. That would be a thing of much goodness.. Considering people who do use drones do missions at same speed as before, i dont think missiles will be boosted...
Haakelen Gallente Fire Mandrill	Posted - 2008.11.19 18:17:00 - [600] Originally by: Riga Mortiss I.. for one.. would dearly love to know if CCP is even considering revisiting the whole missile issue.. Whether it is a "Yes we are looking at a possible restructure" or "NO.. Missile stay as is.. deal with it" response. That would be a thing of much goodness.. Missiles are fine. It is you that is broken.



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