Originally by: Ryel Theon

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Originally by: MyOwnSling

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Originally by: Ryel Theon

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Originally by: Millenia Fallenwing

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Can someone please prove that BoB did not exploit this, nor were they involved with this.

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You know you can't prove a negative, right?

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Sure you can, but that's not how it works in the real world. Innocent until proven guilty.

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You, sir, are either the greatest philosopher who ever lived or an idiot. I know which one my money is on.

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Originally by: Puupuu

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dude... your face...

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Originally by: MooKids

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I have an elite rating in HULL TANKING! That is like saying I can block punches with my face.

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Originally by: Nokkan Soth

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I would like to know how CCP ignored their petition 4 years ago about the problem, and then turns around and bans the accounts? Mind you im not involved but CCP has to take the blame on this exploit effeting the whole Eve economy and I just cant wait to see what happens n the nex t month now that these suppliers are gone. CCP not responding to the original submission of the bug that was reported to them condoned the actions of those players and what they were doing. But will CCP take the blame? I doubt it, but we shall see.

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Originally by: Solomon XI

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Originally by: MyOwnSling

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From some of the unsubstantiated posts I have read, the offenders have apparently lost titans, poses, and of course all assets due to bans. Take that as you will.

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At the same time, by MM own admission, your alliance suffered losses because this *exploit* was being, well, exploited. We know that the offending corporations have suffered asset freezes, pos-removal, bannings, and the like.

However.

What we do not currently know is if these exploits contributed to super-capitals & outposts (which, in all likelihood, they did). I cannot help but wonder if some 0.0 wars have been won because of this exploit. If so, the alliances which were involved in one way or another with corporations using this exploit should have their full 0.0 SOV reset.

We also do not know for sure the devastation CCP has caused when they reset the eve-market price histories for a number of various items. People have lost money due to an action CCP failed to announce in advance. Restitution is owed.

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Originally by: Puupuu

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dude... your face...

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Originally by: MooKids

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I have an elite rating in HULL TANKING! That is like saying I can block punches with my face.

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Originally by: Gnulpie

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Originally by: Allanah

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Originally by: C4w3

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GOD blees Chribbster and eve-search, And if this is TRUE! Shame on you CCP! and Expose the moneyprinting four!!!

taken from eve-search http://eve-search.com/thread/216634/page/2#47
...

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If this has indeed been going on for 4 years as suggested by the SH forums and this eve-o post, then the whole market is completly ... i dont even know what to say. The market, the 0.0 mechanics, just about everything in the game would be VERY affected by this. This is bad...

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I can't see anything about reactors there.

Only some 'pos exploits' were mentioned. That could have been everything and nothing.

It says "the corp suffered from pos exploit". I can't see how the producing materials out of thing air makes a corp suffer in any way.

Throwing some vague bit of story here and there together, ignoring the vast lack of background information and then twisting and bending it so that it fits into ones pre-occupied perception is not the right way to approach this matter.

It is good to see that people started digging and found such posts like the linked one. I hope that CCP will investigate all this. CCP should do it right and that needs time, time to follow all those links and traces. So, give them the time!


Keep digging! But be careful with incomplete information.

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Originally by: Madius

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Originally by: Serrin Shamandar

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Er, sorry 'bout that - Blizzard to me usually means the Diablo and StarCraft franchises. I never really got in to Wow, and really don't know or want to know much about it.

I'm aware that the framework in D2 imposed some limitations - but nothing says that you couldn't do a slower constantly running ruststorm that would probably shake and/or destroy the market rather than an hours long insanely resource intensive one that happened long after the market had glutted with cheap and easily available dupes.

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I could've sworn they had a system that would erase dupes detected in the same game... maybe I'm thinking of something else.

Anyways, what remains is that hopefully CCP is capable (and willing) to track down and punish anyone involved in this exploit and not just those directly responsible. If they aren't...

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Originally by: Mr Manufacture

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Originally by: Aramith

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Originally by: Mr Manufacture

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guys, guys

Morsus Mihi find 135bn ISK a month to fuel over 400 POS, and they build 10 titans, cos they work really hard... its true...

they mine all the veld in tribute and NPC there

thats gives them the 2000 bn isk capfleet they have, and finds them all that ISK for POS fuelling

its true, fluf told me so

no exploiting in that alliance

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you know you can say the same thing about a number of alliances. I have heard that BoB has closer to 30 titans not the 15 or so listed in the "known Titans" thread in COAD. I am also sure they a large number of POS to support with fuel.

Or what about AAA i mean they have atleast 11 titans and they claim space and are bound to have quite a few POS up and running as well.

Are you just upset because you tried to get into a corp in morsus mihi and got rejected? Or did whatever corp/alliance your main belongs to get beat up on when they attacked/were attacked by MM?

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BoB have moon income which is off the scale. Do you have any idea how many high end moons and T2 BPO's they have? They've been rich for a very long time.

Morsus Mihi however have had barely a handful of high-ends. There is NO OTHER ALLIANCE in the whole game who fuel the amount of POS they do, have 10+ titans, and free dreads/carriers to all members, and live in space as crappy as theirs.

Not a single one. So don't come here and say 'that can apply to any number of alliances' because the truth is that it applies to NONE. Apart from MM.

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Originally by: C4w3

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Ill throw something at you.... the pilot wich made the post back then are same pilot banned today as his corp¦s ..... saga continues.

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Originally by: Ima Alt

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Originally by: GuntiNDDS

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Edited by: GuntiNDDS on 11/12/2008 01:51:59
not only the domain market is missing numbers:

Ferrogel market in sinq laison

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Yeah, they claim to be out of the office and unable to comment on the issue, but they have plenty of time to tamper with price histories. Also, lots of manpower availiable to lock all the threads in general except the one where all the fanboys and BoB pets come out to suck up.

Badly done, chaps.

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Originally by: Andrue

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Originally by: rValdez5987

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I just wanted to add a bit of irony.

In the real world money has literally disappeared with financial's and banking disappearing or otherwise going bankrupt.

Now in eve, trillons of isk are supposedly gained through exploitation.

Luckily for us, no matter what the situation is in the markets, there will always be a base income until CCP changes it. There will always be missions to run.

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Ah but don't you know? Mission running is bad. The 0.0 folks say that it causes an unwarranted influx of ISK into the game that distorts the economy.

Ah.

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Originally by: Aramith

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Originally by: Mr Manufacture

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BoB have moon income which is off the scale. Do you have any idea how many high end moons and T2 BPO's they have? They've been rich for a very long time.

Morsus Mihi however have had barely a handful of high-ends. There is NO OTHER ALLIANCE in the whole game who fuel the amount of POS they do, have 10+ titans, and free dreads/carriers to all members, and live in space as crappy as theirs.

Not a single one. So don't come here and say 'that can apply to any number of alliances' because the truth is that it applies to NONE. Apart from MM.

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oh yes tribute is a crap region. i gues 11+ systems with crockite (3 that also contain mercoxit and have atleast 18 belts) including one with 30+ belts is complete and total crap. not to mention the complexes mentioned earlier by an MM member (atleast one 10/10 and one 8/10). yeah that is a real crap region. If that is not good enough of a region for you then maybe your standards for what is a good region are a little too high.

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Originally by: Orree

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Because moon minerals are the only source of income in EVE...lol.

Notwithstanding the complete falsehoods included in your posts, I'm sure if all you say is true, RAWR members will be outed and the guilty players will be banned.

I sincerely and fervently hope that anyone who has committed this exploit is named and shamed, tarred and feathered. If RAWR members are found to be involved and it is shown that RAWR has directly benefited in some way from this exploit, I'll quit RAWR immediately rather than continue to be associated with such cheating and wholesale exploiting. I'm not alone, either.

Something tells me I won't have to make this move, though.

On the other hand, you could be full of cra...oh wai-

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Originally by: Rethyl

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Originally by: Liu

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asuming the guy at SCH were telling the truth, if they petitioned it 4 years ago, and the answer was "it's not a bug", why would they have to be banned?

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If you find a wallet on the street and yell out "Hey, did someone lose a wallet?", and noone responds, and you then go and use their credit cards for 4 years before getting caught, why should the police bust you?

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Originally by: Apertotes

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tbh, boot.ini was overpowered and needed a nerf

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Originally by: SPIONKOP

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Edited by: SPIONKOP on 11/12/2008 19:51:46
I am not sure if this has been raised, I read some pages but not reading them all.

I would assume the accounts that did this were alts paid for by the huge amount of ISK at their disposal. The loss of which will not affect CCP's income, nor will it affect those that are responsible for this mess.

The 4 non alliance corps must have been linked to an alliance.

So all in all over 70 alts baned from the game, big deal. Question is will CCP trace the ISK. There is always a trail and this amount of ISK can be traced. I don't think CCP have the balls to take this as far as they should. I think they are scared of what they may find.

It would be nice for those alliances implicated in this act to admit it and work on a solution. Sad thing is, most alliances are s****and care little for well being of the game. I suspect those high up the food chain are well insulated from this, even if their game time, titan and characters have been paid for by cheats. Chase the money, find them, remove their titans and moms and ban them.

If any T2 BPO's have been bought by this ISK what will happen to them I wonder.

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Originally by: Mr Manufacture

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Originally by: MyOwnSling

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I have neither seen nor heard anything to suggest this aside from your allegations. Not even a peep in alliance. FYI there is a reason your thread got locked.

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well, do feel free to tell us how the owners of Tribute can afford 135bn a month in POS fuel and a 2000bn isk cap fleet.

we're all ears

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Originally by: Orree

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LOL...your facts are wrong and you want people to prove things based upon them. Get a grip.

RAWR corps split the monthly fuel bills. I used to buy Shiva's fuel every month (last time I did it was around 2-3 months ago). Even when hydrogen isotopes were priced crazy high, we never spent more than 6.5 bn a month for all our towers...Tribute and low-sec. We have not increased our number of towers substantially in quite some time.

Even if we conservatively increase the per corp fuel cost in RAWR to 8 bn a month, we're looking at well less than HALF of what you're claiming is the gospel truth in monthly fuel costs. That doesn't even take into account that a few of our corps have very few towers up and yet I'm assuming a full share in my calculations.


Back under the bridge, troll.

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Originally by: Mr Manufacture

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BoB have moon income which is off the scale. Do you have any idea how many high end moons and T2 BPO's they have? They've been rich for a very long time.

Morsus Mihi however have had barely a handful of high-ends. There is NO OTHER ALLIANCE in the whole game who fuel the amount of POS they do, have 10+ titans, and free dreads/carriers to all members, and live in space as crappy as theirs.

Not a single one. So don't come here and say 'that can apply to any number of alliances' because the truth is that it applies to NONE. Apart from MM.

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Originally by: Deva Blackfire

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<snip>

And when it comes to plexes: nu-uh. Tribute didnt have 8/10 nor 10/10. Closest 8/10 was in VENAL and it was farmed by RZR/MM/omen more-less same amount of time. Thus income from that plex for MM alone was pretty low. Another 8/10 was around KW-. This one was farmed by RZR (well actually me + lovekebab) and later was "given" to russkies so they could farm it. Last 8/10 in the area was in tenal-branch pathway and it was farmed by D2.

When it comes to 10/10 there was one in aa- area (systems where razor have 3-4 outposts, sov4 and stuff) but almost noone did it - because at the time 10/10 plexes were MUCH harder (random respawns which pretty much locked down compy) and dropped crap (x-type loot but about 10% drop rate or less). This plex got fixed after my petitions (both loot and respawns) tho it was just before exploration kicked in and statics were removed.

From "good" thingies in the area there was 6/10 plex 1 jump from EOY (tenal) but it was bugged and wasnt dropping loot. It got fixed at same time as 10/10 - just before exploration kicked in (or even at the same time).

So no, when it comes to plexes tribute was crap - Tenal and Venal were goldmines. No idea how it is with moons, im not a moon miner.

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Originally by: Filthy

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What happens to the T2 BPOs and stuff these guys had, will they be re-distributed into the game through plexes etc or are some mods to become uber rare now?

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Originally by: Imperian

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Sometimes I wish all those forum-geeks would come into 0.0 so I have the opportunity to beat the livin hell out of them.

Unbelievable. Jesus...

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Originally by: Imperian

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Please get a clue first what you are talking about.
Throwing alliance-names into this discussion is not very constructive, especially when you have no clue about MM and Tribute and MM's income as you just have proven. Sometimes I wish all those forum-geeks would come into 0.0 so I have the opportunity to beat the livin hell out of them.

Unbelievable. Jesus...

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Originally by: Ella Ment

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CCP will do very little, it would be inconsistent if they did. When the T20 incident blew up, all they did was remove some of the suspect BPOs, refused to investigate or reclaim any profits from those BPOs and related investment profits etc, refused (rightly/wrongly) to expose other CCP employees in said corp/alliance(and there were others) and investigate (publically) anything they also might have done.

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Originally by: Imperian

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Originally by: Mr Manufacture

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BoB have moon income which is off the scale. Do you have any idea how many high end moons and T2 BPO's they have? They've been rich for a very long time.

Morsus Mihi however have had barely a handful of high-ends. There is NO OTHER ALLIANCE in the whole game who fuel the amount of POS they do, have 10+ titans, and free dreads/carriers to all members, and live in space as crappy as theirs.

Not a single one. So don't come here and say 'that can apply to any number of alliances' because the truth is that it applies to NONE. Apart from MM.

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Please get a clue first what you are talking about.
Throwing alliance-names into this discussion is not very constructive, especially when you have no clue about MM and Tribute and MM's income as you just have proven. Sometimes I wish all those forum-geeks would come into 0.0 so I have the opportunity to beat the livin hell out of them.

Unbelievable. Jesus...

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Originally by: Mr Manufacture

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Originally by: Orree

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Because moon minerals are the only source of income in EVE...lol.

Notwithstanding the complete falsehoods included in your posts, I'm sure if all you say is true, RAWR members will be outed and the guilty players will be banned.

I sincerely and fervently hope that anyone who has committed this exploit is named and shamed, tarred and feathered. If RAWR members are found to be involved and it is shown that RAWR has directly benefited in some way from this exploit, I'll quit RAWR immediately rather than continue to be associated with such cheating and wholesale exploiting. I'm not alone, either.

Something tells me I won't have to make this move, though.

On the other hand, you could be full of cra...oh wai-

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Well, I hope you've dropped your roles in preperation, because one of the banned chars has already implicated MM.

It seems to have stemmed from G/TRUST/D2 and the breakaway corps and individuals seem to have taken this 'knowledge' right into Evoke, MH, MM...

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Originally by: Mr Manufacture

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Originally by: Orree

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LOL...your facts are wrong and you want people to prove things based upon them. Get a grip.

RAWR corps split the monthly fuel bills. I used to buy Shiva's fuel every month (last time I did it was around 2-3 months ago). Even when hydrogen isotopes were priced crazy high, we never spent more than 6.5 bn a month for all our towers...Tribute and low-sec. We have not increased our number of towers substantially in quite some time.

Even if we conservatively increase the per corp fuel cost in RAWR to 8 bn a month, we're looking at well less than HALF of what you're claiming is the gospel truth in monthly fuel costs. That doesn't even take into account that a few of our corps have very few towers up and yet I'm assuming a full share in my calculations.


Back under the bridge, troll.

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and 10+ titans came out of thin air... oh wai...

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Originally by: Filthy

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What happens to the T2 BPOs and stuff these guys had, will they be re-distributed into the game through plexes etc or are some mods to become uber rare now?

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