Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 7 8 9 10 20 30 40 50 60 70 80 90 100 .. 119 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 12 post(s) |
Pipa Porto
497
|
Posted - 2012.07.26 04:44:00 -
[91] - Quote
CCP Soundwave wrote:I don't want you to stop ganking nor am I going to remove aggression in high sec vOv
You got the Insurance Nerf. You got the Suddenly CONCORD fix to aggro kiting. You got the wardec changes that Dramatically favor the defenders. You got the proposed Crimewatch changes that make it essentially impossible to loot the cargo of a ganked Freighter. You got the proposed Crimewatch changes that were originally going to allow RR with CONCORD protection.
It all paints a picture, no matter what your stated objectives are.
Hulks can be fit such that they are not profitable to gank right now. The others need roles to fill, but if one ship's going to have the role of Tankey Miner, why are they all getting buffs that take away from that role bonus?
To fit the roles, the Skiff should have a great Tank, a middling Yield, and a smallish Cargo. The Mackinaw should have a small Tank, a middling Yield, and a Great Cargo. The Hulk should have a small Tank, a Great Yield, and a smallish Cargo.
You're giving the Skiff an insane Tank, a middling Yield, and a very good Cargo. The Mackinaw a great Tank, a middling Yield, and a Great Cargo. The Hulk a great Tank, a Great Yield, and a smallish Cargo.
When the Mack can have ~60k EHP, why bother with the Skiff? When the Hulk can have ~45k EHP, why bother with the Skiff?
35k EHP is already unprofitable to Gank. The Extra 10k will remove Exhumer ganking entirely. EvE: Everyone vs Everyone |
Herr Wilkus
Aggressive Salvage Services LLC Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
388
|
Posted - 2012.07.26 04:44:00 -
[92] - Quote
CCP Soundwave wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote:Zagdul wrote:Gone are the days where EVE is a dangerous place. I seem to have missed the part when they made all player ships immune to damage. That won't happen as long as I'm around, btw. Suicide ganking wasn't designed to be profitable, it's meant to be an option that let's you punish someone else at your expense. The money you paid for a ship to gank with compared to the money lost by your target was completely off and this change should bring that to a better spot. That said, the numbers can still be adjusted.
First: Its a bit disingenuous to say, "Shrug, they aren't immune, you can still attack them, high-sec aggression still exists..." Straw man, yeah? Gankers aren't disputing the 'possiblility' to shoot these new Exhumers.
After all, one can take a potshot at the Chribbas Veldnaught with a Tornado. That doesn't mean (sane) people are going to participate in the activity......
Second, remember - three pigs. Don't balance based on the pigs making the bad/greedy choices.
Lets see, a Well-tanked Hulk in 0.8 Space requires at least 3 T2 Tornados to take down. Thats 300M ISK in Tornados spent to kill 300M ISK in Hulk. Seems balanced (if you insist on balancing that way...)
A badly tanked Hulk, on the other hand, requires one T2 Tornado to destroy. Thats 100M ISK to kill a 300M ISK ship. Consider it a penalty for failure to fit, orbit - or simply failure to pay attention.
And really, ganking Exhumers in Tornados actually stopped 'being profitable' when the Boomerang was nerfed. Since then, Its always been a net loss.
Catalysts, being destroyers, are a different animal, but they only thrive in 'low' high sec. They become massively inefficient above 0.7 space.
If relative ISK loses between ganker and gankee are the balancing factor, at least consider what the current capability of the Exhumers ARE - not pigs building their houses out of Straw or Sticks....' |
Zagdul
Clan Shadow Wolf Fatal Ascension
833
|
Posted - 2012.07.26 04:45:00 -
[93] - Quote
Also, while you're at it,
the Skiff only gets 70k ehp when you tank it and I can't fit a large shield booster on it. Can you up the power grid so I can?
A list of fixes for the new inventory
Dual Pane idea clicky |
rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
580
|
Posted - 2012.07.26 04:53:00 -
[94] - Quote
CCP Soundwave wrote:Destiny Corrupted wrote:Also, I just thought of something. If suicide-ganking wasn't meant to be profitable, wouldn't it make more sense to simply remove T2 salvage from exhumer wrecks, instead of giving them more EHP than the average armor-buffer T3 pvp fit? Denidil wrote:now you're just QQ'ing like a *****. So you equate my promise that I will adapt to these changes and continue my activities to whining? Way to grasp at straws, little buddy. CCP Soundwave wrote:I don't want you to stop ganking nor am I going to remove aggression in high sec vOv You most definitely will if marketing tells you to. rofl
The devs have said only Hilmar and Unifex are allowed to make unilateral decisions. Not marketing. Gonna have to move up the food chain to get CCP Soundwave fired. I don't know who Unifex is or what he does, but I doubt he cares about you. Also Hilmar has shown he doesn't really care about marketing and other things. Seems your chances are pretty remote actually. I will not be voting in the CSM election, so you need to go vote to make up for me. |
Jypsie
Wandering Star Enterprises
9
|
Posted - 2012.07.26 04:53:00 -
[95] - Quote
CCP Soundwave wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote:Zagdul wrote:Gone are the days where EVE is a dangerous place. I seem to have missed the part when they made all player ships immune to damage. That won't happen as long as I'm around, btw. Suicide ganking wasn't designed to be profitable, it's meant to be an option that let's you punish someone else at your expense. The money you paid for a ship to gank with compared to the money lost by your target was completely off and this change should bring that to a better spot. That said, the numbers can still be adjusted.
Boom, headshot
/thread
Entire ganking team is babies!
|
baltec1
Bat Country
1704
|
Posted - 2012.07.26 04:57:00 -
[96] - Quote
All we are going to get out of this are fleets of untouchable mining bots and a massive market crash in low end ore just when it became worth mining. |
Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
150
|
Posted - 2012.07.26 05:00:00 -
[97] - Quote
CCP Soundwave wrote:That won't happen as long as I'm around, btw.
Suicide ganking wasn't designed to be profitable, it's meant to be an option that let's you punish someone else at your expense. The money you paid for a ship to gank with compared to the money lost by your target was completely off and this change should bring that to a better spot. That said, the numbers can still be adjusted.
from what I see suicide ganking most people works exactly like that. luckily some people make themselves targets by carrying tons of phat loots. However miners are on the other side of that ratio, the profit aspect isn't exactly there but the lulz:isk outweighs it. I've always lulzed when ganking a hulk but tbh it was always rather easy targets. personally I would have boosted hulk hull hp and increased cargo expander hp penalty to give miners a choice, put em up to 40-50k ehp when fully buffer tanked. |
Gustavus Adolphus
Croatoan Enterprises The Silent One's
5
|
Posted - 2012.07.26 05:02:00 -
[98] - Quote
CCP Soundwave wrote:Destiny Corrupted wrote:Also, I just thought of something. If suicide-ganking wasn't meant to be profitable, wouldn't it make more sense to simply remove T2 salvage from exhumer wrecks, instead of giving them more EHP than the average armor-buffer T3 pvp fit? Denidil wrote:now you're just QQ'ing like a *****. So you equate my promise that I will adapt to these changes and continue my activities to whining? Way to grasp at straws, little buddy. CCP Soundwave wrote:I don't want you to stop ganking nor am I going to remove aggression in high sec vOv You most definitely will if marketing tells you to. rofl
I 100% support this product and/or service |
Richard Desturned
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1438
|
Posted - 2012.07.26 05:03:00 -
[99] - Quote
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:CCP Soundwave wrote:That won't happen as long as I'm around, btw.
Suicide ganking wasn't designed to be profitable, it's meant to be an option that let's you punish someone else at your expense. The money you paid for a ship to gank with compared to the money lost by your target was completely off and this change should bring that to a better spot. That said, the numbers can still be adjusted. from what I see suicide ganking most people works exactly like that. luckily some people make themselves targets by carrying tons of phat loots. However miners are on the other side of that ratio, the profit aspect isn't exactly there but the lulz:isk outweighs it. I've always lulzed when ganking a hulk but tbh it was always rather easy targets. personally I would have boosted hulk hull hp and increased cargo expander hp penalty to give miners a choice, put em up to 40-50k ehp when fully buffer tanked.
a better solution would have been to give hulks the ability to fit better tanks than what they are currently capable of (say, 50-60k EHP without gang bonuses) at the expense of yield
in any case, even with a tank fit hulks were still capable of out-mining almost every other ship in the game, save for a yield-fit covetor, which still lacks the utility of a gigantic cargo hold a rogue goon |
Sentamon
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
69
|
Posted - 2012.07.26 05:07:00 -
[100] - Quote
So many tears, so little cargo space to collect them all. ~ Professional Forum Alt -á~ |
|
pussnheels
476
|
Posted - 2012.07.26 05:07:00 -
[101] - Quote
GAWD some of you profesional gankers are such crybabies shouting how unfair it is to them that they suddenly can't play this game anymore because with these new barges the game becomes unbalanced Was it fair to hunt down hulks and barges of people that want to play this game THEIR way and not yours , no it isn't You ve been claiming that the only thing you do is to root out macro s , all the while it was clear that the real problem was ratting bots in nullsec mining with guns
You claim that this this game should only be about pvp , but you are too scaredof real pvp because you are too aftraid of losing a fight to a real person who is actual better than you, ooh imagine the shame and embarrassment
You claim that miners only want to turn this game into a theme aprk game , while you don't realize that you only want to turn this game into a arcade game
during the last 10 months every price rise in minerals was blamed on miners and your answer to that , lets go and gank some more miners .... ouch why does my tornado suddenly costs me more than 75 mil
My opinion you brought these changes on to yourself , now deal with it , adapt or leave I do not agree with what you are saying , but i will defend to the death your right to say it...... Voltaire |
Crove
Itoen
3
|
Posted - 2012.07.26 05:08:00 -
[102] - Quote
What's odd about this whole thread / proposed change is that it will make low end ore mining less profitable, encouraging and rewarding higher risk mining. Isn't that what we want? For reward to match risk?
If you're really trying to teach the "stupid pigs" lessons, they'll learn them when profits plummet. Or, they will become low paid wage slaves for those of us who want cheap expensive ships. They'll be the eve equivalent of third world labor.
Yay third world labor! |
Richard Desturned
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1438
|
Posted - 2012.07.26 05:08:00 -
[103] - Quote
pussnheels wrote:adapt or leave
ahahahaha that's the same advice we gave to the miners, "fit a tank" "try drones that don't mine" "try not going AFK" but they felt entitled to have their max-yield fits AND a damnation-sized tank so they cried to CCP a rogue goon |
Ginseng Jita
PAN-EVE TRADING COMPANY
1674
|
Posted - 2012.07.26 05:10:00 -
[104] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:All we are going to get out of this are fleets of untouchable mining bots and a massive market crash in low end ore just when it became worth mining.
This. Watch the return of botters like never before. |
stoicfaux
1303
|
Posted - 2012.07.26 05:13:00 -
[105] - Quote
IMO, the only real solution that will satisfy both sides is simply to have meaningful consequences for having a criminal record.
If you gank in real life, you don't get forgiven after a few minutes. In Eve, if you gank, you should wind up on the faction's/corporation's Most Wanted list, flashy red to faction navies to gate guns to players associated with that faction/corporation, for *forever* or until you pay restitution plus a hefty penalty. Criminals are locked out of the faction/corporation: no station services, no docking, no running around safely in a pod, no one cares about how much ratting you do because security status doesn't exist anymore, etc.. You do the crime, you get shot at for all time.
Gankers can still gank but they have to be really sneaky about it (i.e. raid from low-sec or from friendly faction territory.) High-sec players can band together to keep their local communities safe from marauders. Nobody has to deal with quirky, nonsensical, and unrealistic aggression mechanics. CONCORD goes away except for newbies systems. It's win win.
You can tell me what is and isn't Truth when you pry the tinfoil from my cold, lifeless head.
|
baltec1
Bat Country
1704
|
Posted - 2012.07.26 05:14:00 -
[106] - Quote
pussnheels wrote:GAWD some of you profesional gankers are such crybabies shouting how unfair it is to them that they suddenly can't play this game anymore because with these new barges the game becomes unbalanced Was it fair to hunt down hulks and barges of people that want to play this game THEIR way and not yours , no it isn't You ve been claiming that the only thing you do is to root out macro s , all the while it was clear that the real problem was ratting bots in nullsec mining with guns
You claim that this this game should only be about pvp , but you are too scaredof real pvp because you are too aftraid of losing a fight to a real person who is actual better than you, ooh imagine the shame and embarrassment
You claim that miners only want to turn this game into a theme aprk game , while you don't realize that you only want to turn this game into a arcade game
during the last 10 months every price rise in minerals was blamed on miners and your answer to that , lets go and gank some more miners .... ouch why does my tornado suddenly costs me more than 75 mil
My opinion you brought these changes on to yourself , now deal with it , adapt or leave
This is a factual post if you ignore the fact that all 3 exhumers could be tanked, the rise in ships was mostly down to massive inflation and minerals jumped due to drone alloy nerf. Or in other words, you just lied. |
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
748
|
Posted - 2012.07.26 05:17:00 -
[107] - Quote
Crove wrote:What's odd about this whole thread / proposed change is that it will make low end ore mining less profitable, encouraging and rewarding higher risk mining. Isn't that what we want? For reward to match risk?
If you're really trying to teach the "stupid pigs" lessons, they'll learn them when profits plummet. Or, they will become low paid wage slaves for those of us who want cheap expensive ships. They'll be the eve equivalent of third world labor.
Yay third world labor! This is not how carebearism/botting works. Increasing safety will lead to, and always has led to, an increase in safety-centric activity. Do you really think that if barges become invulnerable, that miners will move to null to chase the better rocks, instead of making more alt accounts to mine Veld in .9? (USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST) |
|
CCP Soundwave
C C P C C P Alliance
1791
|
Posted - 2012.07.26 05:18:00 -
[108] - Quote
Pipa Porto wrote:CCP Soundwave wrote:I don't want you to stop ganking nor am I going to remove aggression in high sec vOv You got the Insurance Nerf. You got the Suddenly CONCORD fix to aggro kiting. You got the wardec changes that Dramatically favor the defenders. You got the proposed Crimewatch changes that make it essentially impossible to loot the cargo of a ganked Freighter. You got the proposed Crimewatch changes that were originally going to allow RR with CONCORD protection. It all paints a picture, no matter what your stated objectives are. Hulks can be fit such that they are not profitable to gank right now. The others need roles to fill, but if one ship's going to have the role of Tankey Miner, why are they all getting buffs that take away from that role bonus? To fit the roles, the Skiff should have a great Tank, a middling Yield, and a smallish Cargo. The Mackinaw should have a small Tank, a middling Yield, and a Great Cargo. The Hulk should have a small Tank, a Great Yield, and a smallish Cargo. You're giving the Skiff an insane Tank, a middling Yield, and a very good Cargo. The Mackinaw a great Tank, a middling Yield, and a Great Cargo. The Hulk a great Tank, a Great Yield, and a smallish Cargo. When the Mack can have ~60k EHP, why bother with the Skiff? When the Hulk can have ~45k EHP, why bother with the Skiff? 35k EHP is already unprofitable to Gank. The Extra 10k will remove Exhumer ganking entirely. Oh, and the other 2 Exhumers with max MLUs should be able to out-mine a 0 MLU Hulk. Otherwise people are going to keep using the Hulk and tanking it (probably badly).
If I wanted to remove aggression, I'd just shut it off, instead of going through all these hoops to keep it alive. The reality is that suicide ganking is an integral part of the game that I quite like, but every now and then we need to make changes because the current setup doesn't work. |
|
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
748
|
Posted - 2012.07.26 05:19:00 -
[109] - Quote
stoicfaux wrote:IMO, the only real solution that will satisfy both sides is simply to have meaningful consequences for having a criminal record.
If you gank in real life, you don't get forgiven after a few minutes. In Eve, if you gank, you should wind up on the faction's/corporation's Most Wanted list, flashy red to faction navies to gate guns to players associated with that faction/corporation, for *forever* or until you pay restitution plus a hefty penalty. Criminals are locked out of the faction/corporation: no station services, no docking, no running around safely in a pod, no one cares about how much ratting you do because security status doesn't exist anymore, etc.. You do the crime, you get shot at for all time.
Gankers can still gank but they have to be really sneaky about it (i.e. raid from low-sec or from friendly faction territory.) High-sec players can band together to keep their local communities safe from marauders. Nobody has to deal with quirky, nonsensical, and unrealistic aggression mechanics. CONCORD goes away except for newbies systems. It's win win. So, will criminals also get the opportunity to avoid the police (CONCORD) entirely with these changes? You know, just like in "real life?" (USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST) |
Richard Desturned
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1439
|
Posted - 2012.07.26 05:22:00 -
[110] - Quote
i remember when a couple of dudes in frigates kept a proteus tackled long enough for us to arrive and murder it
clearly two dudes in 500k isk ships deciding the fate of a 2bn isk ship is totally unfair a rogue goon |
|
Pipa Porto
498
|
Posted - 2012.07.26 05:26:00 -
[111] - Quote
CCP Soundwave wrote:If I wanted to remove aggression, I'd just shut it off, instead of going through all these hoops to keep it alive. The reality is that suicide ganking is an integral part of the game that I quite like, but every now and then we need to make changes because the current setup doesn't work.
Why do you think it doesn't work? Right now, Hulks can fit for Tank (sacrificing Yield and convenience), and be unprofitable to gank. Hulks can fit for convenience (sacrificing Yield and Tank), and be profitable to gank. Hulks can be fit for yield (sacrificing Tank and convenience), and be profitable to gank.
Hulks can also fit themselves to make it easy to mine while aligned.
If these changes weren't designed as a straight nerf to Suicide ganking, why has every Exhumer gotten a significant Tank increase?
Why are you devaluing the Skiff's new role with both the Hulk and Mack tank buff before it's even on TQ? Why are you devaluing the Mack's new role with the Skiff's new cargo hold?
And none of them will be profitable to gank, so why use the Skiff? EvE: Everyone vs Everyone |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
245
|
Posted - 2012.07.26 05:26:00 -
[112] - Quote
Richard Desturned wrote:i remember when a couple of dudes in frigates kept a proteus tackled long enough for us to arrive and murder it
clearly two dudes in 500k isk ships deciding the fate of a 2bn isk ship is totally unfair If in a different security, different engagement rules and irrelevant to the situation being discussed. If the frigates were able to trick the proteus into engaging then the proteus chose to engage and irrelevant to the situation being discussed. |
|
CCP Soundwave
C C P C C P Alliance
1791
|
Posted - 2012.07.26 05:28:00 -
[113] - Quote
Pipa Porto wrote:CCP Soundwave wrote:If I wanted to remove aggression, I'd just shut it off, instead of going through all these hoops to keep it alive. The reality is that suicide ganking is an integral part of the game that I quite like, but every now and then we need to make changes because the current setup doesn't work. Why do you think it doesn't work? Right now, Hulks can fit for Tank (sacrificing Yield and convenience), and be unprofitable to gank. Hulks can fit for convenience (sacrificing Yield and Tank), and be profitable to gank. Hulks can be fit for yield (sacrificing Tank and convenience), and be profitable to gank. Hulks can also fit themselves to make it easy to mine while aligned. If these changes weren't designed as a straight nerf to Suicide ganking, why has every Exhumer gotten a significant Tank increase? Why are you devaluing the Skiff's new role with both the Hulk and Mack tank buff before it's even on TQ? Why are you devaluing the Mack's new role with the Skiff's new cargo hold? And none of them can be profitable to gank.
Yeah my point is that I don't think they should be profitable to gank. I think it should be possible, but not necessarily profitable (profitable might be the wrong word, but more that the expenses should be higher for the attacker than the defender). |
|
baltec1
Bat Country
1704
|
Posted - 2012.07.26 05:28:00 -
[114] - Quote
CCP Soundwave wrote:
If I wanted to remove aggression, I'd just shut it off, instead of going through all these hoops to keep it alive. The reality is that suicide ganking is an integral part of the game that I quite like, but every now and then we need to make changes because the current setup doesn't work.
The exhumers didnt need to buff to their tank. The skiff and the hulk could already fit a heavy assault ship class tank and the mack could get high end cruiser which made them ungankworthy to all but the most dedicated/angry ganker. The t1 barges needed the work done on the tank. What the exhumers needed was distinct rolls but the way they have been altered means that they all overlap into eachothers turf.
The skiff should be the little brick that can escape and live in lowsec. Tanky little scamp with a +2 warp strength to get out of sticky situations
The Mack with its expansive hold but poor defences and mining yeild
The hulk with its hoover like yeild but small cargo and poor tank.
Three ships for different jobs all of which could be fitted for either tank or yeild not both. Having to make the choice is a good thing as is the risk that goes along with that choice. |
Richard Desturned
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1439
|
Posted - 2012.07.26 05:30:00 -
[115] - Quote
CCP Soundwave wrote:Yeah my point is that I don't think they should be profitable to gank. I think it should be possible, but not necessarily profitable (profitable might be the wrong word, but more that the expenses should be higher for the attacker than the defender).
so you're saying that it should literally cost half a billion to kill an afk mining hulk a rogue goon |
Pipa Porto
498
|
Posted - 2012.07.26 05:33:00 -
[116] - Quote
CCP Soundwave wrote:Yeah my point is that I don't think they should be profitable to gank. I think it should be possible, but not necessarily profitable (profitable might be the wrong word, but more that the expenses should be higher for the attacker than the defender).
Ok, so you don't feel that miners in HS should be exposed to any risk. Sure.
People don't throw away Isk on Suicide ganking like miners seem to think they do. It's done for profit, and Suicide Ganking has always been done for profit (whether Freighters, Industrials, or Barges).
What reason is there for making the price of the ship relevant?
Again. If a current Hulk is fit properly, it is not profitable to gank it. Ask the GSF for their data on Hulk KMs. See how many of them were tanked well. EvE: Everyone vs Everyone |
Roll Sizzle Beef
Space Mutiny
700
|
Posted - 2012.07.26 05:36:00 -
[117] - Quote
Pipa Porto wrote: It's done for profit, and Suicide Ganking has always been done for profit
I guess if you say it enough you begin to believe it. |
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
748
|
Posted - 2012.07.26 05:36:00 -
[118] - Quote
CCP Soundwave wrote:Yeah my point is that I don't think they should be profitable to gank. I think it should be possible, but not necessarily profitable (profitable might be the wrong word, but more that the expenses should be higher for the attacker than the defender). If you really thought that, then you'd be reconsidering exhumer construction requirements instead of simply buffing their health to buffer-fit battleship levels. The fact that you're not is obviously indicative of your intent to marginalize ganking to such an extent that anyone who can't field three to four dozen destroyers for a single kill (read: the majority of people) won't do it. (USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST) |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
245
|
Posted - 2012.07.26 05:37:00 -
[119] - Quote
Pipa Porto wrote: People don't throw away Isk on Suicide ganking like miners seem to think they do. It's done for profit, and Suicide Ganking has always been done for profit (whether Freighters, Industrials, or Barges).
To be fair, either you are mistaken or some of your peers are lying. |
Pipa Porto
498
|
Posted - 2012.07.26 05:42:00 -
[120] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:Pipa Porto wrote: People don't throw away Isk on Suicide ganking like miners seem to think they do. It's done for profit, and Suicide Ganking has always been done for profit (whether Freighters, Industrials, or Barges).
To be fair, either you are mistaken or some of your peers are lying.
Goonswarm Propaganda not being totally accurate about their motives? Whaaaaaa???
Anyway, I will qualify it. It's only done on a large scale for profit. How many not-for-profit Freighter ganks happen? EvE: Everyone vs Everyone |
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 7 8 9 10 20 30 40 50 60 70 80 90 100 .. 119 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |