I really dont understand why anyone would fly a skiff (to mine in, lots of comedy PVP possibilities though) or fit tanking mods after these changes - the only purpose of tank on a mining ship is, realistically, to deter suicide gankers and that simply wont be necessary anymore after the changes go live.

I'd like to see those hardcore crybabies move on to show how important they are and how fast eve would die. Please do it, stop doing your jelly bad kid who stop breathing to get some attention, act like real men do and move on, show you are able to take decisions instead of moaning and bitching.

!!!!!

I've been AFK many times in my Pilgrim. In safe spot, cloaked...
I've been AFK in covops during war and war targets in same system. In safe spot, cloaked...

And they keep whining about how I don't know what PvP means...

Being Cloaked AFK is to being AFK in a station in a Barge (No Income, No Risk)

There's a risk when you are in safe spot and cloaked. People can still find you.

They also stand about the same chance of having a meteorite hit them in the gonads.

Does anyone think, that if supers cost less, more would be out fighting. Or even with plummeting mineral costs, it would still cost to much to openly pvp or risk them?

No, everyone has some degree of risk aversion and those things are pretty much the thing not to lose so it'll just mean more people logged out in super caps.

fleet ships don't give up their damage mods when they fit a tank; miners do because they lack the cpu to fit a shield tank and a rack of mlus.

armour tanking cargo ships are a ******* retared idea and whoever at ccp came up with it need putting out of our misery and are in the same situation as miners except nobody is actively ganking them because when you've got orcas avalable the entire ship type is redundant anyway.

yeah snipers don't have give up their tank; they choose to do it for a bit more range, or a bit more damage. snipers not fitting tanks is akin to miners not fitting tanks. it's not because they can't it's because they choose not to.

i agree miners probably aren't alone in this; however their rebalancing came first so they're getting fixed first. i'm sure ccp will address the same issue with other ships when they get around to rebalacing those ship types.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAB6UxUo-rc

OP and other "hardcore" PVP players spending their time ganking defenseless ships in hisec should listen to their own advice they've been shouting for so long and LEARN TO ADAPT !

It's not surprising that the devs are trying to appeal to the incredibly stupid baby masses - making changes or improvements for the hardc0re 1337 players doesn't help them as a business. Doing stuff like this will potentially draw in or retain the new terribad players. Thats why there's so much focus on frigates, destroyers, mining barges, greyscales awful ideas for crimewatch, etc.

Please point out an example of such tears.

There is easily 25 posts in the first few pages of this thread where gankers and gank supporters are crying about the proposed changes. How could you miss them?

woow i never seen a thread grow so fast

I am still convinced that some of you gankers are just crying about the fact that ganking became suddenly so much harder for you

Well i have good news for you guys , there still will be plenty of people around who have no idea about the exhumer buff
so you still will have plenty of targets for you

Apparantly only a relative large group of players never bother reading the forums or any devblog

so stop crying about it

Gankers are quite happy with the changes to the barges, its the miners who are whining because we can still gank them for profit if they fail to fit a tank or pick the skiff.

I keep seeing comments about how fast this thread has grown. It is only because of comment #60. I saw that and knew right away this was the forum storm of the year.

From comment #60:

"Suicide ganking wasn't designed to be profitable" CCP Soundwave

If you shout at the top of your lungs, you might hear yourself over the incredibly loud discussion going on here.

Even if the gankers are indeed crying about the changes, the people who so helpfully point it out seem to overlook the decade of crying they themselves have done about anything and everyone that has impeded their ability to mission/mine/circlejerk in peace. It's basically a case of the pot calling the kettle a severely derogatory racial epithet.

Ok... let's pretend for one second that the practice of "suicide ganking" isn't the completly invantile attempt of a bored part of the community, to give a giant middle finger to the systems of a game they should have stopped playing long ago...

... and let's think about what logical reactions this kind of incidents would provoke in game lore terms. Aside from a complete, military lockdown of Jita, ORE R&D departments would most probably work non stop to make their ships more resilient, so their customers could protect themselfes better from those terrorist attacks.

That's my logical conclusion, atleast...

Sort of disapointed in ccp for reducing the hulk shield back another 500.. the way it was it didn't even have as much EHP as a T1 battlecrusier... not it's less than half... for a T2 cruiser of any type this seem short sighted.

Why would they?

Why would the Caldari lock down Jita? Burning capsuleers ships in Jita is good for business.
Why would ORE make more resilient ships? They profited from Hulkageddon. All those miners had to replace their exhumers.

Roleplay cuts both ways.

You might think so, hu...

Well, make a real world comparison then: What do you think how many mining companies would go out of business when terrorists would start attacking them specifically and in force... what would that do to international industry? Material shortages, sky rocketing prices on anything manufactured out of metal, you get the picture.

In game terms: Sure, ORE would sell more ships in the short run, but if it kept going, they would run out of materials to MAKE these new ships, resulting in higher prices, and before long, the miners wouldn't be able to by the increasingly expensive ships...

soundwave can say anything he wants to try to put some fluff around the fact that they're screwing the risk/reward balance of the game for the n+1st time

i'm really not sure if he's trying to convince us or himself when he says "well you'll still be able to shoot people in hisec so it's still risky to be there even though we're doing everything we can to discourage it heh!"

hogwash, this change was long overdue.. and the risk for reward has been out of wack in the favor of combat null sec for too long .. concidering especially that for years we've been hearing from the same people crying now that high sec is not safe, then they proved it.. So when can we expect that reward nerf to be lifted? never ? Well then the new improvement to barges seems very fair.

maybe the miners should fit these things called "shield extenders" and "hardeners" instead of having a tank given to them on a silver platter

sorry if you can't make such tough choices like "15% more yield or 300% better tank"