this!

so since hulkageddon is irrelevant why should mining barges have their HP buffed?

so you're saying that it should literally cost half a billion to kill an afk mining hulk, one with nothing fitted as far as a tank, absolutely nothing trained as far as tanking skills and no effort taken to mitigate the risk of being blown up

i'm not trying to put words in your mouth but that sounds like what you're trying to say by "it should cost more to kill a ship than what the ship is worth"

I know right? Nerf L4s to the ground, remove incursions from hisec and nerf hisec exploration into the ground. Then we'll talk about how bad "risk-free, high-profit" gameplay is for the game.

I know right? Nerf L4s to the ground, remove incursions from hisec and nerf hisec exploration into the ground. Then we'll talk about how bad "risk-free, high-profit" gameplay is for the game.

Is there a problem?

Ganking as a whole is broken and a mindless mongoloid idiot activity.

Ganking as a whole is broken and a mindless mongoloid idiot activity.

Again, since Hulkageddon had no impact, why are mining barges being changed?

I noticed you neglected my reply, so I shall repeat:

Its negligible to mineral prices. They might spike for a week due to market speculators but your ganking doesn't really affect them.

On the other hand, for the minors that due get ganked, the lack of ehp on these ships is a huge issue. Maybe the macks tank is a little overboard, but beforehand they were battleship-sized frigates. You just couldn't tank them effectively without all lvl V's and a boosting orca.

first you talk about "abloo gankers are telling us how to play the game"

now you're telling gankers how to play the game

gankers are obviously mongoloids who can't figure out any of the more complex parts of the game, like mining

"f1-f3, move ore to orca every 5 minutes, refine with refining alt, haul to jita" is something so complex that a ganker couldn't figure out in a lifetime, unlike the sophisticates who mine

So why'd they increase the HP to ridiculous levels instead of simply giving them the ability to fit a tank at the expense of yield, just like everyone else in the game has to find some balance between tank, utility and damage yield?

Is it because miners only know what "modulated strip miner II," "mining laser upgrade II" and "medium cargohold optimization I/II" can do?

On the other hand, for the minors that due get ganked, the lack of ehp on these ships is a huge issue.

I am just guessing here, but I am willing to bet they chose this route to avoid "Creative" use of said Exhumers. Giving them more slots to fit a tank or more yield may have other implications (using one for tackle?). Just a guess, nothing more.

I am just guessing here, but I am willing to bet they chose this route to avoid "Creative" use of said Exhumers. Giving them more slots to fit a tank or more yield may have other implications (using one for tackle?). Just a guess, nothing more.

So why'd they increase the HP to ridiculous levels instead of simply giving them the ability to fit a tank at the expense of yield, just like everyone else in the game has to find some balance between tank, utility and damage yield?

Is it because miners only know what "modulated strip miner II," "mining laser upgrade II" and "medium cargohold optimization I/II" can do?

If I were doing this...

All ships would have the same base yield (being able to fit 3 strip 2s).

[snip]

All ships would have 50m3 drone bay. That way they could either go with 5 lights combat and 5 miners (or some other Ewar combo) or 5 medium combat for low/null ops.

they do have the same base yield after the change.

and they all have 50m3 drone bays after the change.

There is still plenty of room for that balance. Its just the buff to there raw stats is so huge that you can't see it. Perhaps CCPs new vision for mining barges is for the average exhumer to have 50K+ ehp. Maybe they see what I do, which is a reason to use them in more dangerous space. I know I'd be a lot more willing to mine in low if I knew I could survive long enough to for my corpies to come help if I got jumped, instead of popping like a wet tissue (which honestly, if you jumped into a mining op wouldn't you primary the hulks?)

My guess is this is the first step towards a total rebalance of industry and an attempt to push people out of empire. Its the same with alchemy, don't bite there heads off until we see the whole picture...

hint: they don't need more mids to fit a better tank, just a slight bump in CPU and some grid.

Nope, this Big Bad Wolf will probably go back to ganking haulers. (until Crimewatch kills that profession off)

And there are always Tengus to pop.

But Exhumers will likely be off the menu.

Sure, there will be the odd holdout 5 or 6 man dessie team. But really, the last (and ONLY) credible threat to miners in high-sec has been largely removed. Most gankers are sharp enough to realize that spending 300M for a 'chance' to pop a 180M ISK Mackinaw is an abject waste. Orcas are rarely attacked as well - same principle. No drops + massive EHP + relatively cheap cost = waste of time.

As for the AFKer and bots, while being like cockroaches (they NEVER go away) - at least you could have fun squashing them and earn a little ISK doing it. Now - they will operate with complete impunity, 60K EHP Mackinaw, HO!!!!

Has nothing to do with 'adjusting' or 'being smart' about ganking. There is no way to 'trick' anyone in this process. (unlike ninja salvaging - which, also repeatedly nerfed, I fear is breathing its last....safeties anyone?)

Ganking is all hard numbers, proper scouting, and execution - but its clear what side of the scale CCP's thumb is on. Eventually you are simply beating your head against endless nerfs, ISK disincentives and massive EHP.

Yeah, THATS creative - force all gankers exclusively into roving packs of Catalysts. Yet other 'clever' tactics and tricks have been all been removed, by one means or another - in record time, the minute CCP discovers them....

So spare me the crybaby comments.

The Goons are right on this one.

There is still plenty of room for that balance. Its just the buff to there raw stats is so huge that you can't see it. Perhaps CCPs new vision for mining barges is for the average exhumer to have 50K+ ehp. Maybe they see what I do, which is a reason to use them in more dangerous space. I know I'd be a lot more willing to mine in low if I knew I could survive long enough to for my corpies to come help if I got jumped, instead of popping like a wet tissue (which honestly, if you jumped into a mining op wouldn't you primary the hulks?)

My guess is this is the first step towards a total rebalance of industry and an attempt to push people out of empire. Its the same with alchemy, don't bite there heads off until we see the whole picture...

words

I am just guessing here, but I am willing to bet they chose this route to avoid "Creative" use of said Exhumers. Giving them more slots to fit a tank or more yield may have other implications (using one for tackle?). Just a guess, nothing more.

ORE is in the business of making isk and responding tot he needs of their customers. Any corporation that doesn't respond to their customers' needs will eventually find a competitor doing it for them and will soon find themselves out of business.

The customers of ORE would have demanded more sturdy mining vessels to protect their operations after rampant ganking. ORE has responded as any business would. It made their customers happy.

Mining barge buff makes perfect sense.

No, no, NO.

I already explained this on the first post.

Here's a little joke:

Q: How would you 'nerf the Hulk?
A: Give it an extra low slot.

If you give the average in'duhh'vidual Hulk Miner an extra low slot, he'll cram in another Cargohold Expander in and make his tank even worse.

If you give him more grid and mid slots, the large majority of miners will continue to fit them with Civilian Shield Boosters and Cap Recharger IIs.

CCP understood that buffing Exhumers with more 'options' would simply lead to most miners getting ganked. Because they make bad choices - and furthermore, feel entitled to make those bad choices. Stupiditiy is one thing. Determined Stupidity is another.

CCP came to a simple conclusion:

A mere 'Buff' for Mining Barges wasn't enough - they had to make them 'IDIOT-PROOF'.

Its not Exhumers that are broken, its 'most' of the people who pilot them. All one has to do is read some of these replies to understand that.

yeah so ore magically found a way to change every existing ship that they've sold the blueprints to produce

let's face it, lore justifications are bullshit