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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 12 post(s) |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
8771
|
Posted - 2012.07.26 17:49:00 -
[541] - Quote
Hicksimus wrote:Edit: Max AFK'ness is moon mining. It's fairly impressive how much flying back and forth is required for something that's supposedly AFK.
hungrymanbreakfast wrote:Lots. 2 nados take down a max tank hulk kiddo. No, they really don't, unless by GÇ£max tankGÇ¥ you mean GÇ£less tank than it can haveGÇ¥.
Quote:Also notice how max tank hulks need max tanking skills? Yes. That's generally good practice to have if you intend to undock. As luck would have it, those skills are very cheap and quick to get. Like everyone else, someone who flies a BC or BS will get them too in short order to get the most out of their ships. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
CONCORD spawns: quick enough to save you?
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Richard Desturned
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1447
|
Posted - 2012.07.26 17:50:00 -
[542] - Quote
Jorma Morkkis wrote:I don't know. You should ask from Ishtar pilots because it's more afk friendly than Pilgrim.
an ishtar that isn't fit for passive shield regen will get murdered with one volley of EMP/Fusion L
next dumb comparison between a mining ship and a combat ship, please a rogue goon |

Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
1706
|
Posted - 2012.07.26 17:50:00 -
[543] - Quote
Makari Aeron wrote: My reasoning is this: 1. so much whining about getting ganked by CONCORD and not making a profit 2. so much whining about miners having too much tank
Solution: Don't gank in hi-sec for profit. Get out of your comfort zones and go to lo-sec and/or 0.0 where you don't get blown up by CONCORD and you can make a profit without dying if you're awesome enough. Higher risk, higher reward.
Oh noes! That would require to clear that horrific prompt that warns the though hi sec PvPer is about to stepping out of hi sec! Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |

Yimodo
Black Thorne Corporation Black Thorne Alliance
2
|
Posted - 2012.07.26 17:50:00 -
[544] - Quote
Even more fun look at the corp name of the guy who made the post.... het is providing Tears (how ever they are his own this time) |

Makari Aeron
The Shadow's Of Eve TSOE Consortium
27
|
Posted - 2012.07.26 17:55:00 -
[545] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:Makari Aeron wrote: My reasoning is this: 1. so much whining about getting ganked by CONCORD and not making a profit 2. so much whining about miners having too much tank
Solution: Don't gank in hi-sec for profit. Get out of your comfort zones and go to lo-sec and/or 0.0 where you don't get blown up by CONCORD and you can make a profit without dying if you're awesome enough. Higher risk, higher reward.
Oh noes! That would require to clear that horrific prompt that warns the though hi sec PvPer is about to stepping out of hi sec!
My point exactly. Pew Pew Pew! |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
8772
|
Posted - 2012.07.26 17:55:00 -
[546] - Quote
Makari Aeron wrote: My reasoning is this: 1. so much whining about getting ganked by CONCORD and not making a profit 2. so much whining about miners having too much tank
Solution: Don't gank in hi-sec for profit.
Problem: highsec is where the profitable targets are. Moving outside of highsec means more risk for less reward. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
CONCORD spawns: quick enough to save you?
|

Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy Caldari State
122
|
Posted - 2012.07.26 17:57:00 -
[547] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Makari Aeron wrote: My reasoning is this: 1. so much whining about getting ganked by CONCORD and not making a profit 2. so much whining about miners having too much tank
Solution: Don't gank in hi-sec for profit.
Problem: highsec is where the profitable targets are. Moving outside of highsec means more risk for less reward.
Is there a problem? |

arcca jeth
Dark Alliance Dark Empire Alliance
111
|
Posted - 2012.07.26 17:57:00 -
[548] - Quote
La Nariz wrote:Suqq Madiq wrote:Pipa Porto wrote:I'm saying they don't need a tank buff because they're fine as they are. Clearly they aren't fine as they are or CCP wouldn't be devoting their time to re-balancing them. I know, I know, you and your ilk are far better equipped to determine what CCP should be devoting their time to than the people who actually run the company, but you're just regurgitating the same tired rhetoric over and over at this point. Don't you get tired of being wrong all the time? Wow remember Incarna just because CCP does something doesn't mean its the right thing to do.
just because your leader has a hardon for killing miners to increase his empires profitability, and is willing to pay random people to carry out his bidding, doesn't mean it's the right thing to do.
BTW There is a whole thread of people who diasgree with you about incarna. If you care to read it, last i checked it was very very long. might want to put on a pot of coffee and eat some popcorn.
But back on topic, there are a lot of people who are happy about these barge changes. Let me put something into perspective, if you spent all this time training to fly a BS and the best one required BS 5 then you realized for a few more hours you could fly a Marauder, would you fly the other ships if the Marauder did the job better for a few more hours and higher price tag? Especially if it virtually let you run L4 missions with nearly no effort or challenge? ....... sure you would
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Sarik Olecar
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2012.07.26 17:57:00 -
[549] - Quote
I think the biggest problem with this argument is the assumption that mining profits will plummet and be bots will run rampant. The truth is though that hulkaggeddons impact on the mineral market is negligible - even more so since everyone got bored of it. Max yield isn't increasing so the only thing that might drive prices down is more people deciding they wanna start mining. Ganking just effects too few people to really be a factor, whether bot or human.
Honestly, all this change will do is gives players more options. A large portion of them will still fit max yield no tank hulks and probably not even realize anything was buffed. (I mean have you seen the rage in S&I from that guy who thinks this is somehow a nerf to hulks?) The rest of the players however will see the value in the increased tank/convenience and switch out, probably decreasing the total aggregate yield of all miners, realizing that a hulk is better saved for mining ops with friends/alts.
Funny how I always thought the goonies 'exploited' (whether actual or perceived) game mechanics in an attempt to force the developers to fix them, but now that CCP sees that mining ships do in fact need an ehp buff, it's tears time. Unless of course that's just a guise for the dicketry, and they actually are only doing it because techs so broken they get stupidspacerich off it. But I know they would never lie...
So enough with the strawmen guys, this buffs not going to lead to super-passive-afk-no-risk-billion-isk-per-hour-happy-carebea-rfunland-hisec-time-end-of-1337pvp. Stupid miners will still die, and smart miners get the ability to not have to stare at they're strips cycling and spam dscan every five seconds (And yes, your stupid if you think anyone should actually do that...) |

Richard Desturned
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1449
|
Posted - 2012.07.26 18:00:00 -
[550] - Quote
Sarik Olecar wrote:I think the biggest problem with this argument is the assumption that mining profits will plummet and be bots will run rampant. The truth is though that hulkaggeddons impact on the mineral market is negligible - even more so since everyone got bored of it. Max yield isn't increasing so the only thing that might drive prices down is more people deciding they wanna start mining. Ganking just effects too few people to really be a factor, whether bot or human.
so since hulkageddon is irrelevant why should mining barges have their HP buffed? a rogue goon |

Hicksimus
Slaxtopia Reverberation Project
122
|
Posted - 2012.07.26 18:00:00 -
[551] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Hicksimus wrote:Edit: Max AFK'ness is moon mining. It's fairly impressive how much flying back and forth is required for something that's supposedly AFK.
I have to be logged in to mine, I don't have to be logged in to moon mine. My mining also requires the transport of many more m3 with much higher frequency. But I don't expect you to get it because you didn't understand why trying to use a single window UI with many windows didn't work.
Things I have realized from the EvE forums: Many people beleive cost means money and only money |

Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
1706
|
Posted - 2012.07.26 18:01:00 -
[552] - Quote
gfldex wrote:CCP Soundwave wrote:Suicide ganking wasn't designed to be profitable, it's meant to be an option that let's you punish someone else at your expense. The money you paid for a ship to gank with compared to the money lost by your target was completely off and this change should bring that to a better spot. That said, the numbers can still be adjusted. How do you plan to scale the HP of a freighter with the value of it's cargo? If you don't plan to do that then please tell me why miners are immune from profit seeking highsec pirates but haulers are not. I'm in your forumz asking rhetorical questions.
How much do you earn when you kill a freighter with 8 ice blocks inside? Scale that amount down by a factor of freigther cost / mining ship cost and you have a ballpark amount telling how much a ganker should make.
Wait, that amount is negligible because the only freigthers worth ganking are those with valuable cargo? Too bad, the same principle applies to other ships too. You don't gank a meta 4 fitted mission Raven right? It has to be either pimped and / or hold some very valuable stuff. Exhumers that have T1 fittings should be as unprofitable to gank as a meta 4 fitted Raven is. Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
8772
|
Posted - 2012.07.26 18:01:00 -
[553] - Quote
Jorma Morkkis wrote:Is there a problem? Yes. His proposed solution is counter-productive.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
CONCORD spawns: quick enough to save you?
|

Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
1706
|
Posted - 2012.07.26 18:02:00 -
[554] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Makari Aeron wrote: My reasoning is this: 1. so much whining about getting ganked by CONCORD and not making a profit 2. so much whining about miners having too much tank
Solution: Don't gank in hi-sec for profit.
Problem: highsec is where the profitable targets are. Moving outside of highsec means more risk for less reward.
Outside hi sec is where Though Guys PvP is at.
Embrace what you pay your Though Guys sub for. Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |

arcca jeth
Dark Alliance Dark Empire Alliance
111
|
Posted - 2012.07.26 18:04:00 -
[555] - Quote
Pipa Porto wrote:Herr Hammer Draken wrote:I would like to know where it is written that you have to make money ganking a miner? I imagine after this change CCP is telling all of you the same thing. In fact reading between the lines of dev speak it seems it was never intended to be able to make isk while ganking miners.
Note none of these new barges are gank proof. So quite your whinning and adapt. Players can still effect their own economies of scale but they just can not do it as a career. Unless....
The only reason Ganking Hulks is profitable is the fact that Miners are too lazy to tank their ships. Now, they won't have to do anything to do so. A properly fit Hulk cannot be profitably ganked.
would ganking Hulks be profitable at all if the people who have a monopoly on building them weren't offering you 10M to blow one up? would you do it if there was no bounty on them? |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
8772
|
Posted - 2012.07.26 18:04:00 -
[556] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:Outside hi sec is where Though Guys PvP is at. GǪand the profit is in highsec. So that's hardly relevant, now is it? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
CONCORD spawns: quick enough to save you?
|

hungrymanbreakfast
Xion Limited Primal Force
6
|
Posted - 2012.07.26 18:04:00 -
[557] - Quote
Richard Desturned wrote:Jorma Morkkis wrote:I don't know. You should ask from Ishtar pilots because it's more afk friendly than Pilgrim. an ishtar that isn't fit for passive shield regen will get murdered with one volley of EMP/Fusion L next dumb comparison between a mining ship and a combat ship, please
The AFK domi is a perfect example. More tank than a crappy ishtar and yes it can withstand a bs gank. Also left alone since it only costs ~100 mil to make and also makes more isk/hr than any hulk |

Mara Tessidar
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
642
|
Posted - 2012.07.26 18:05:00 -
[558] - Quote
Richard Desturned wrote:Sarik Olecar wrote:I think the biggest problem with this argument is the assumption that mining profits will plummet and be bots will run rampant. The truth is though that hulkaggeddons impact on the mineral market is negligible - even more so since everyone got bored of it. Max yield isn't increasing so the only thing that might drive prices down is more people deciding they wanna start mining. Ganking just effects too few people to really be a factor, whether bot or human. so since hulkageddon is irrelevant why should mining barges have their HP buffed?
hahaha get owned EveO is a circus train that is for bafflingly unclear reasons also carrying tanks of chlorine gas,-ácrashing and exploding in the middle of a small midwestern town. -áCalling it a mere train wreck gives neither the entertainment nor the horror it offers its proper due. |

Blawrf McTaggart
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1327
|
Posted - 2012.07.26 18:05:00 -
[559] - Quote
goon NOOBs |

Sarik Olecar
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
1
|
Posted - 2012.07.26 18:05:00 -
[560] - Quote
Richard Desturned wrote: so since hulkageddon is irrelevant why should mining barges have their HP buffed?
Its irrelevant to mineral prices. For the individual miner its very annoying to have to go about your chosen profession in a paper thin spaceship. Especially one that takes oh so much tasty tech to build... |

Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
1706
|
Posted - 2012.07.26 18:05:00 -
[561] - Quote
Adrenalinemax wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:We all know how terribly this is going to boil over. I wonder whose idea it was at CCP to do this. One thing's for sure, they ****** up pretty royally here.
Isn't it funny how CCP Soundwave stopped posting in this thread as soon as people started calling him out on his bullshit? "Suicide ganking wasn't meant to be profitable." Yeah, because that's TOTALLY what the issue is about, and not, you know, CCP coddling highsec carebears who don't give a **** about what this game is really supposed to be about and instead think that they are entitled to some blanket of protection.
Well they got that blanket. I can't wait until the hordes of miners come onto the forums and complain that they don't bother mining anymore because ore and mineral prices have dropped so much.
CCP Soundwave: Slowly turning EVE highsec into a risk free environment. highsec is not risk free, you can gank anything at anytime It is just that you can spend 10mil to gank a 250mil ship before. Now that will no longer be possible
Yeah now it'll take 1 more catalyst to kill the same Hulk. /wrist Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |

Makari Aeron
The Shadow's Of Eve TSOE Consortium
27
|
Posted - 2012.07.26 18:06:00 -
[562] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Makari Aeron wrote: My reasoning is this: 1. so much whining about getting ganked by CONCORD and not making a profit 2. so much whining about miners having too much tank
Solution: Don't gank in hi-sec for profit.
Problem: highsec is where the profitable targets are. Moving outside of highsec means more risk for less reward.
Except in 0.0 there are MORE targets. Trust me, I've seen entire faction fit mining fleets destroyed (orca and all) by gankers. I've also seen entire mining fleets jump through a friendly gate camp right into gankers.
So maybe the INDIVIDUAL ship is worth less, but typically speaking if someone is AFK mining in 0.0 (yes, it happens A LOT) they have many accounts. AND you don't lose your ship if you loot the wreck and get away before the miner's friends show up.
Lo-sec/0.0 possibly less Income per miner (some are faction/Deadpsace fit) - (theoretically) no ship loss - ammo cost (if applicable)
Hi-sec possibly more Income - guaranteed ship loss - ammo cost Pew Pew Pew! |

Sarcasim
The Southern Gentleman's Social Club Event Horizon Protocol
3
|
Posted - 2012.07.26 18:06:00 -
[563] - Quote
Richard Desturned wrote:Danny Diamonds wrote:Crazy idea, but why not go find challenging targets to shoot? You know, maybe those that are allowed to be fitted with guns? Or maybe haulers with tasty loots? When it takes 6 destroyers to take out a miner, I don't think there will be much support for the whiner. They surely wont have my support (not that it means much; I am just one EVE player). miners will whine whether it takes 6 catalysts to kill them or 6 vindicators they will whine about dying until the day CCP hamfistedly removes the ability to aggress a ship in hisec outside of wardecs and they'll still whine about getting popped by wartargets until that's nuked as well
The force is STRONG in this one.....he can see the future....wait? wrong game. |

Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy Caldari State
122
|
Posted - 2012.07.26 18:06:00 -
[564] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Yes. His proposed solution is counter-productive.
So risk free, high profit is best for the game? |

hungrymanbreakfast
Xion Limited Primal Force
6
|
Posted - 2012.07.26 18:08:00 -
[565] - Quote
Tippia wrote:hungrymanbreakfast wrote:Lots. 2 nados take down a max tank hulk kiddo. No, they really don't, unless by GÇ£max tankGÇ¥ you mean GÇ£less tank than it can haveGÇ¥.
If you need more deeps you dont have implants or aren't scanning their fit first and picking the ammo needed or are using meta 0 guns. |

Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
1706
|
Posted - 2012.07.26 18:09:00 -
[566] - Quote
Skippermonkey wrote:Dave stark wrote:no because you're intending to go in to a combat situation, tanks are for combat. mining ships are not a combat ship. Replace the words 'DPS' with 'isk per hour' I dont fit a mission boat for MAX dps at expense of my survivability, because if i did my shiny billion isk faction ship would explode in no time at all
Super tank fitted mission boats are for botters (see the parallel?) or newbs whose tank skills suck.
I have done most L4 missions in a 800mm super gank fit maelstrom with only 1 invuln field II as tank. I optimized income a lot doing this. If you are unable to do the same, though luck.
Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
8772
|
Posted - 2012.07.26 18:09:00 -
[567] - Quote
Makari Aeron wrote:Except in 0.0 there are MORE targets. Funny, the highsec miners tend to want to claim the opposite and use that as an argument why highsec needs to be changedGǪ 
Volume makes up for individual value.
Jorma Morkkis wrote:So risk free, high profit is best for the game? Good thing, then, that it's neither risk-free nor particularly high-profit.
hungrymanbreakfast wrote:If you need more deeps you dont have implants or aren't scanning their fit first and picking the ammo needed or are using meta 0 guns. What are you responding to here? We're talking about a max-tank Hulk. Picking the right ammo and using high-meta guns still doesn't let you kill one with two tornadoes. They just don't put enough damage. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
CONCORD spawns: quick enough to save you?
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Richard Desturned
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1450
|
Posted - 2012.07.26 18:09:00 -
[568] - Quote
Jorma Morkkis wrote:So risk free, high profit is best for the game?
I know right? Nerf L4s to the ground, remove incursions from hisec and nerf hisec exploration into the ground. Then we'll talk about how bad "risk-free, high-profit" gameplay is for the game. a rogue goon |

Barbara Nichole
Cryogenic Consultancy Black Sun Alliance
291
|
Posted - 2012.07.26 18:10:00 -
[569] - Quote
Sarik Olecar wrote:I think the biggest problem with this argument is the assumption that mining profits will plummet and be bots will run rampant. The truth is though that hulkaggeddons impact on the mineral market is negligible - even more so since everyone got bored of it....)
this! [IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/consultsig.jpg[/IMG] |

arcca jeth
Dark Alliance Dark Empire Alliance
111
|
Posted - 2012.07.26 18:11:00 -
[570] - Quote
Herr Hammer Draken wrote:What is really funny about all of this. Right now in game only 1 out of 20 miners has any clue that these changes are comming. And for that 5% that do have a clue 90% of them are still going to use their hulks without any changes. They are all worried that their hulks will get downgraded. When they find out that the hulk gets a slight boost they are all happy and content and almost to a man nobody cares about the rest of the changes.
I predict it will be months before these new barge changes impact any significant changes to miner behavior.
Note the people that post here on this forum represent far less than even 1% of the eve population.
the people who will use them and care about the changes, are the new players training up for the Hulk, having actual useful ships to fly in the meantime as well as different roles, or well, more defined roles for the various ships that they gain access to along the way. Otherwise, like before those changes, someone will tell a new miner, don't bother flying anything other than a hulk. so that's 30 days or so of training that this new pilot is paying for and not learning anything about mining nor gaining any experience. once they finally afford one, since they have no experience, it get's popped, because they have no experience.
This all makes the growing pains for those who do have an interest in mining a little bit easier on the training grind.
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