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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 12 post(s) |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
272
|
Posted - 2012.08.07 22:13:00 -
[2971] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote:I've done both of the things you mentioned, and in each case thought to myself, "In hindsight, that was pretty dumb." But it doesn't change the fact that a friendly group of HIC's and nano pests in one instance and a mael (pre gank insurance nerf) were more than happy to make themselves available to teach me those lessons. Gankers are not responsable for your actions, just the consiquences Since the consequence is a gank, that would make gankers responsible for ganking. Others just aid in target selection. |
baltec1
Bat Country
1837
|
Posted - 2012.08.07 22:14:00 -
[2972] - Quote
Spector Nightshade wrote: I'm curious to how you manage to fit a hulk currently with 35k ehp because atm without jumping to officer level fits which certainly become profitable to gank I'm topping out at around 20k ehp with completely scraping yield in favor of tank using T2 mods. I'm certain you could find quite a few gankers willing to go after a hulk with 45k EHP sporting a few billion in mods to get up to that 45k ehp that you speak of.
My covetor tanks more than 20k... |
Richard Desturned
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1648
|
Posted - 2012.08.07 22:15:00 -
[2973] - Quote
Spector Nightshade wrote:I'm curious to how you manage to fit a hulk currently with 35k ehp because atm without jumping to officer level fits which certainly become profitable to gank I'm topping out at around 20k ehp with completely scraping yield in favor of tank using T2 mods. I'm certain you could find quite a few gankers willing to go after a hulk with 45k EHP sporting a few billion in mods to get up to that 45k ehp that you speak of.
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/16196592/Hulk%20-%20catalyst%20tanked.jpg EVE Online: Trammel (or NGE) |
Pipa Porto
645
|
Posted - 2012.08.07 22:16:00 -
[2974] - Quote
Spector Nightshade wrote:I'm curious to how you manage to fit a hulk currently with 35k ehp because atm without jumping to officer level fits which certainly become profitable to gank I'm topping out at around 20k ehp with completely scraping yield in favor of tank using T2 mods. I'm certain you could find quite a few gankers willing to go after a hulk with 45k EHP sporting a few billion in mods to get up to that 45k ehp that you speak of.
At the time of that Post, the SISI dump had given the Hulk a big boost to its tank. That has since been rolled back. That's where 45k EHP came from.
As for current TQ Fittings,
39.2k EHP vs Void 39.9k EHP vs AM 45.3k EHP vs Quake 33.6k EHP vs EM 36.7k EHP vs PP 45.7k EHP vs Fusion
Add gang links, and: 47.6k EHP vs Void 55.5k EHP vs Quake 40.3k EHP vs EMP
[Hulk, Tank Fit]
Micro Auxiliary Power Core II Internal Force Field Array I
Medium F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Inherent Implants 'Squire' Engineering EG-604 EvE: Everyone vs Everyone
-RubyPorto |
baltec1
Bat Country
1838
|
Posted - 2012.08.07 22:17:00 -
[2975] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:Since the consequence is a gank, that would make gankers responsible for ganking. Others just aid in target selection.
Doesnt matter how you try to word it, the problem for the miner always starts with them not fitting a tank. |
Pankas Carter
Viziam Amarr Empire
25
|
Posted - 2012.08.07 22:17:00 -
[2976] - Quote
Richard Desturned wrote:Spector Nightshade wrote:I'm curious to how you manage to fit a hulk currently with 35k ehp because atm without jumping to officer level fits which certainly become profitable to gank I'm topping out at around 20k ehp with completely scraping yield in favor of tank using T2 mods. I'm certain you could find quite a few gankers willing to go after a hulk with 45k EHP sporting a few billion in mods to get up to that 45k ehp that you speak of.
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/16196592/Hulk%20-%20catalyst%20tanked.jpg
Note you've got the tool set for all your skills to V. In actual practice, that's probably not going to be true. That's a huge time investment. Adama: Starbuck, what do you hear? Starbuck: Nothing but the rain. Adama: Then grab your gun and bring in the cat. |
Pankas Carter
Viziam Amarr Empire
25
|
Posted - 2012.08.07 22:18:00 -
[2977] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote:Since the consequence is a gank, that would make gankers responsible for ganking. Others just aid in target selection. Doesnt matter how you try to word it, the problem for the miner always starts with them not fitting a tank.
Yea, totally has nothing to do with the ganker:
1. Undocking 2. Travelling to the victim's system 3. Warping to the victim's local 4. Targetting the victim 5. Shooting the victim
I love how you just love to try to dodge responsibility. Adama: Starbuck, what do you hear? Starbuck: Nothing but the rain. Adama: Then grab your gun and bring in the cat. |
baltec1
Bat Country
1838
|
Posted - 2012.08.07 22:20:00 -
[2978] - Quote
Pankas Carter wrote: Note you've got the tool set for all your skills to V. In actual practice, that's probably not going to be true. That's a huge time investment.
All you need is the tank to make you unprofitable. That kicks in at around 20k. |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
272
|
Posted - 2012.08.07 22:20:00 -
[2979] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote:Since the consequence is a gank, that would make gankers responsible for ganking. Others just aid in target selection. Doesnt matter how you try to word it, the problem for the miner always starts with them not fitting a tank. If there were no gankers tank wouldn't matter. |
baltec1
Bat Country
1838
|
Posted - 2012.08.07 22:21:00 -
[2980] - Quote
Pankas Carter wrote: Yea, totally has nothing to do with the ganker:
1. Undocking 2. Travelling to the victim's system 3. Warping to the victim's local 4. Targetting the victim 5. Shooting the victim
I love how you just love to try to dodge responsibility.
It starts with the miner deciding to not fit a tank. |
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Pipa Porto
645
|
Posted - 2012.08.07 22:22:00 -
[2981] - Quote
Pankas Carter wrote:Richard Desturned wrote:Spector Nightshade wrote:I'm curious to how you manage to fit a hulk currently with 35k ehp because atm without jumping to officer level fits which certainly become profitable to gank I'm topping out at around 20k ehp with completely scraping yield in favor of tank using T2 mods. I'm certain you could find quite a few gankers willing to go after a hulk with 45k EHP sporting a few billion in mods to get up to that 45k ehp that you speak of.
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/16196592/Hulk%20-%20catalyst%20tanked.jpg Note you've got the tool set for all your skills to V. In actual practice, that's probably not going to be true. That's a huge time investment.
Not really. Shield Tanking's not particularly skill intensive when using Active Hardeners.
Shield Management 5, Tactical Shield Ops 4, Engineering 5, Electronics 5, Exhumers 5, Shield Upgrades 1, Energy Management 5, Hull Upgrades 1, Shield Rigging 1 EvE: Everyone vs Everyone
-RubyPorto |
baltec1
Bat Country
1838
|
Posted - 2012.08.07 22:23:00 -
[2982] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:If there were no gankers tank wouldn't matter.
But there is gankers. Because people do things, silly things, that makes ganking worth doing. |
Richard Desturned
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1650
|
Posted - 2012.08.07 22:23:00 -
[2983] - Quote
Pankas Carter wrote:Note you've got the tool set for all your skills to V. In actual practice, that's probably not going to be true. That's a huge time investment.
I have all of the skills needed for that tank on both my main and this character. My main has a little short of 30M SP, this character has <25M. EVE Online: Trammel (or NGE) |
Richard Desturned
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1650
|
Posted - 2012.08.07 22:26:00 -
[2984] - Quote
Pipa Porto wrote:Shield Management 5, Tactical Shield Ops 4, Engineering 5, Electronics 5, Exhumers 5, Shield Upgrades 1, Energy Management 5, Hull Upgrades 1, Shield Rigging 1
to be fair this tank requires shield upgrades V but that's so trivial that screaming "WELL THAT'S AN ALL LEVEL 5 CHARACTER YOU THEORYCRAFTED IT WITH" is silly
nevermind, works with SU I EVE Online: Trammel (or NGE) |
rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
617
|
Posted - 2012.08.07 22:27:00 -
[2985] - Quote
And becuase they exist, CCP can choose to buff us in response. Surprise I will not be voting in the CSM election, so you need to go vote to make up for me. |
rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
617
|
Posted - 2012.08.07 22:28:00 -
[2986] - Quote
Shield upgrades 5 is kind of silly though, unless you fly all shield tank ships. The hulk is shield tanked though, so perhaps not too silly. I will not be voting in the CSM election, so you need to go vote to make up for me. |
Nerf Burger
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
33
|
Posted - 2012.08.07 22:29:00 -
[2987] - Quote
Richard Desturned wrote:Nerf Burger wrote:I'd also hate my player base for all the moronic assumptions.
I never said suicide ganking should be eliminated. I just don't think it should be profitable. Its amazing how so many think catering to d-bags is somehow sustainable in what is supposed to be a sandbox game. You want to see a game population where the wolves outnumber the sheep and no safety zones? Take a look at Darkfall. if it isn't profitable, it's not a viable profession, and you'll be just as "safe" flying in an empty, supertanked occator as you are in an untanked badger with your entire life's worth please make me laugh some more
alright,, I guess i have to spell it out for you. Its obviously not supposed to be a viable profession. This has been confirmed by a DEV. Only with recent changes has minger ganking become reliably profitable, an obvious mistake. A dev TOLD YOU and you are still here saying the sky is black. Anyway, I'm done wasting my time arguing with forum dwellers that can't grasp risk/reward, simple concepts and other perspectives. Have fun dedicating your life to posting here, arguing like a radio. |
Yeep
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
186
|
Posted - 2012.08.07 22:29:00 -
[2988] - Quote
Nerf Burger wrote: I never said suicide ganking should be eliminated. Like soundwave, I LOVE that it is possible. I just don't think it should be profitable, easy, and with such a predictable result.
Lets say I fully expand an Iteron V and fill it with Estamel's Invulns. Thats 8369 modules at 18bil a piece, or 150,642,000,000,000ISK of value. Lets assume a gank fit Tornado is the best value for money at 150mil a ship it does roughly 10.5k alpha and in low highsec gets 2 shots off before Concord shows up. To lose isk it would take 1,004,280 Tornados. So an untanked, fully expanded Iteron V should have 21,089,880 EHP. Thats just over half the health of a fully officer tanked titan.
But thats ok because ganking isn't supposed to be profitable. |
Richard Desturned
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1650
|
Posted - 2012.08.07 22:29:00 -
[2989] - Quote
rodyas wrote:And becuase they exist, CCP can choose to buff us in response. Surprise
because suicide ganking has never been nerfed ever lol EVE Online: Trammel (or NGE) |
rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
617
|
Posted - 2012.08.07 22:31:00 -
[2990] - Quote
Richard Desturned wrote:rodyas wrote:And becuase they exist, CCP can choose to buff us in response. Surprise because suicide ganking has never been nerfed ever lol
A bit confused on that messageing, unless you count loggofski nerf, making it harder for capitals to gank, or maybe the AOE titan nerf, making it harder for them to gank.
Mostly hear about the nano nerf and other ones, like jump bridges and stuff.
Not up to the times with ganker nerfs. I will not be voting in the CSM election, so you need to go vote to make up for me. |
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Richard Desturned
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1650
|
Posted - 2012.08.07 22:31:00 -
[2991] - Quote
Yeep wrote:Nerf Burger wrote: I never said suicide ganking should be eliminated. Like soundwave, I LOVE that it is possible. I just don't think it should be profitable, easy, and with such a predictable result.
Lets say I fully expand an Iteron V and fill it with Estamel's Invulns. Thats 8369 modules at 18bil a piece, or 150,642,000,000,000ISK of value. Lets assume a gank fit Tornado is the best value for money at 150mil a ship it does roughly 10.5k alpha and in low highsec gets 2 shots off before Concord shows up. To lose isk it would take 1,004,280 Tornados. So an untanked, fully expanded Iteron V should have 21,089,880 EHP. Thats just over half the health of a fully officer tanked titan. But thats ok because ganking isn't supposed to be profitable.
oh please, you can fill an expanded Iteron V with GêP titan blueprints so they should have GêP EHP EVE Online: Trammel (or NGE) |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
272
|
Posted - 2012.08.07 22:31:00 -
[2992] - Quote
Richard Desturned wrote:Pipa Porto wrote:Shield Management 5, Tactical Shield Ops 4, Engineering 5, Electronics 5, Exhumers 5, Shield Upgrades 1, Energy Management 5, Hull Upgrades 1, Shield Rigging 1 to be fair this tank requires shield upgrades V but that's so trivial that screaming "WELL THAT'S AN ALL LEVEL 5 CHARACTER YOU THEORYCRAFTED IT WITH" is sillynevermind, works with SU I Wouldn't you also need hull upgrades V and mechanic V to get the full base EHP of the ship as well? |
rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
617
|
Posted - 2012.08.07 22:33:00 -
[2993] - Quote
Richard Desturned wrote:Yeep wrote:Nerf Burger wrote: I never said suicide ganking should be eliminated. Like soundwave, I LOVE that it is possible. I just don't think it should be profitable, easy, and with such a predictable result.
Lets say I fully expand an Iteron V and fill it with Estamel's Invulns. Thats 8369 modules at 18bil a piece, or 150,642,000,000,000ISK of value. Lets assume a gank fit Tornado is the best value for money at 150mil a ship it does roughly 10.5k alpha and in low highsec gets 2 shots off before Concord shows up. To lose isk it would take 1,004,280 Tornados. So an untanked, fully expanded Iteron V should have 21,089,880 EHP. Thats just over half the health of a fully officer tanked titan. But thats ok because ganking isn't supposed to be profitable. oh please, you can fill an expanded Iteron V with GêP titan blueprints so they should have GêP EHP
well to be fair, There are not basic ships designed to haul titan blueprints, so blaming the pilot is a bit far. They do have the cov-ops hauler. But in a way, the shuttle can be the best hauler, who would have seen that. And perhaps is that bad game design? I will not be voting in the CSM election, so you need to go vote to make up for me. |
Richard Desturned
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1650
|
Posted - 2012.08.07 22:34:00 -
[2994] - Quote
rodyas wrote:A bit confused on that messageing, unless you count loggofski nerf, making it harder for capitals to gank, or maybe the AOE titan nerf, making it harder for them to gank.
Mostly hear about the nano nerf and other ones, like jump bridges and stuff.
Not up to the times with ganker nerfs.
CONCORD buff that made them instaneut, permajam and instapop you, halving of concord response times for the nth time, across-the-board boost to EHP on all ships "for the sake of increasing the length of fights," the removal of insurance payouts for losses to CONCORD, so on and so on
need I go on?
EVE Online: Trammel (or NGE) |
baltec1
Bat Country
1838
|
Posted - 2012.08.07 22:37:00 -
[2995] - Quote
Nerf Burger wrote:
alright,, I guess i have to spell it out for you. Its obviously not supposed to be a viable profession. This has been confirmed by a DEV. Only with recent changes has minger ganking become reliably profitable, an obvious mistake. A dev TOLD YOU and you are still here saying the sky is black. Anyway, I'm done wasting my time arguing with forum dwellers that can't grasp risk/reward, simple concepts and other perspectives. Have fun dedicating your life to posting here, arguing like a radio.
Acctually before the insurance nerf it was profitable to kill miners with a thorax thanks to the insurance payout. What changed was that my corp went and did it on an industrial scale.
Also if the DEVs are stopping us from ganking for profit why did they alter the stats on barges so that on the 8th they can still be killed for a profit? |
rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
617
|
Posted - 2012.08.07 22:38:00 -
[2996] - Quote
Yeah forgot about those, just wasn't too much whining about them, so easily forgotten.
But the goons did offer payments to help cover the insurance nerf, so perhaps that kept people from whining too much, and then me forgetting about it.
Well hi sec, is supppose to be more then people ganking others, so those nerfs came. If you choke out the activites in an area, you can pretty much expect a nerf to come.
You guys argue as if, ganking is the only thing that happens in hi sec, so its hard to see why all these nerfs happen to you. Gotta go out and explore and find new things. I will not be voting in the CSM election, so you need to go vote to make up for me. |
Pipa Porto
646
|
Posted - 2012.08.07 22:38:00 -
[2997] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:Richard Desturned wrote:Pipa Porto wrote:Shield Management 5, Tactical Shield Ops 4, Engineering 5, Electronics 5, Exhumers 5, Shield Upgrades 1, Energy Management 5, Hull Upgrades 1, Shield Rigging 1 to be fair this tank requires shield upgrades V but that's so trivial that screaming "WELL THAT'S AN ALL LEVEL 5 CHARACTER YOU THEORYCRAFTED IT WITH" is sillynevermind, works with SU I Wouldn't you also need hull upgrades V and mechanic V to get the full base EHP of the ship as well?
Not a very big difference.
vs Void, Mechanic 0 and Hull Upgrades 0 only costs you 1900 EHP. EvE: Everyone vs Everyone
-RubyPorto |
rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
617
|
Posted - 2012.08.07 22:39:00 -
[2998] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Nerf Burger wrote:
alright,, I guess i have to spell it out for you. Its obviously not supposed to be a viable profession. This has been confirmed by a DEV. Only with recent changes has minger ganking become reliably profitable, an obvious mistake. A dev TOLD YOU and you are still here saying the sky is black. Anyway, I'm done wasting my time arguing with forum dwellers that can't grasp risk/reward, simple concepts and other perspectives. Have fun dedicating your life to posting here, arguing like a radio.
Acctually before the insurance nerf it was profitable to kill miners with a thorax thanks to the insurance payout. What changed was that my corp went and did it on an industrial scale. Also if the DEVs are stopping us from ganking for profit why did they alter the stats on barges so that on the 8th they can still be killed for a profit?
Because they are too afraid to be lame. I am not that way, but they are. It is kind of irksome they are that way, but who knows what to do about it. I will not be voting in the CSM election, so you need to go vote to make up for me. |
rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
617
|
Posted - 2012.08.07 22:40:00 -
[2999] - Quote
Pipa Porto wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote:Richard Desturned wrote:Pipa Porto wrote:Shield Management 5, Tactical Shield Ops 4, Engineering 5, Electronics 5, Exhumers 5, Shield Upgrades 1, Energy Management 5, Hull Upgrades 1, Shield Rigging 1 to be fair this tank requires shield upgrades V but that's so trivial that screaming "WELL THAT'S AN ALL LEVEL 5 CHARACTER YOU THEORYCRAFTED IT WITH" is sillynevermind, works with SU I Wouldn't you also need hull upgrades V and mechanic V to get the full base EHP of the ship as well? Not a very big difference. vs Void, Mechanic 0 and Hull Upgrades 0 only costs you 1900 EHP.
Well that strategy mostly works, if you use a damage control unit If you don't use one, might not be worth getting the extra life from lvl 5 skills. Even then, you might still be gankable, so the entire effort is worthless. I will not be voting in the CSM election, so you need to go vote to make up for me. |
Richard Desturned
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1650
|
Posted - 2012.08.07 22:40:00 -
[3000] - Quote
rodyas wrote:well to be fair, There are not basic ships designed to haul titan blueprints, so blaming the pilot is a bit far. They do have the cov-ops hauler. But in a way, the shuttle can be the best hauler, who would have seen that. And perhaps is that bad game design?
anybody who needs to move a 65bn isk blueprint should have the means to move it EVE Online: Trammel (or NGE) |
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