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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 12 post(s) |
Richard Desturned
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1440
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Posted - 2012.07.26 07:01:00 -
[181] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Oh, did you notice? What could be wrong with blowing ships worth 400 million (and a couple weeks of casual mining) with ships worth 1.5 million and which the NPE hands out for free? I'm waiting now for you to check how much it costs to blow a mission runner ship worth 2+ billion ISK (and a couple months of casual mission runing).
i'm glad that CCP Soundwave finally came to realize that hisec needs to be absolutely free of risk
can't wait to move my PvE alt to hisec so I can grind isk in absolute safety in an officer-fit vindicator that nobody will bother ganking because they'd need 60 tornadoes a rogue goon |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1219
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Posted - 2012.07.26 07:03:00 -
[182] - Quote
Richard Desturned wrote:Pipa Porto wrote:Richard Desturned wrote:Pipa Porto wrote:From what I understand from another thread, it's Sig Radius is decreasing to an almost Frigate size. the skiff already has a frigate-sized sig Ok, not decreasing. Staying the same. Aren't 100k EHP Frigates a wonderful idea? oh wait, the skiff is getting its sig radius changed to 200 from 90 a hilarious side effect is that it'll be able to fit a 10mn afterburner and zoom around with the same tank as a T3 while acting as heavy tackle with its new utility midslot what great foresight there Wait, could it become the new t2 rifter Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
429
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Posted - 2012.07.26 07:09:00 -
[183] - Quote
Dave stark wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:CCP Soundwave wrote:Yeah my point is that I don't think they should be profitable to gank. I think it should be possible, but not necessarily profitable (profitable might be the wrong word, but more that the expenses should be higher for the attacker than the defender). That's a nice sentiment I suppose, but it seems you've failed to back it up with anything resembling a justification. Do you have any idea what you're about to do to the game with this change? Do you seriously believe this is a good idea? MINERS THEMSELVES should be against this change, because it promotes lazy gameplay. Intelligent miners will be making far less, the price of minerals as a whole will drop, and supercapital production will be significantly cheaper. The only miners that will make any kind of money now are the same miners who find it difficult to pull a profit under these conditions because they're lazy and mine for hours simply because they don't even sit at their computers while they do it. How you could possibly think this is a good idea is beyond me. i nearly took you seriously until you said miners could be afk for hours demonstrating you've never mined for more than 5 mins in your entire life. Yeah, I admit I forgot the part where you press F1, F2, and F3, and then go about whatever you were doing before.
The point is you don't even have to pay attention anymore, because it won't matter whatsoever. EVE's 4th of July Fireworks |
Mira Luhtanen
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
12
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Posted - 2012.07.26 07:11:00 -
[184] - Quote
Richard Desturned wrote:oh wait, the skiff is getting its sig radius changed to 200 from 90
a hilarious side effect is that it'll be able to fit a 10mn afterburner and zoom around with the same tank as a T3 while acting as heavy tackle with its new utility midslot
what great foresight there speaking as someone who hasn't even trained Mining Barges I, I think I'm going to be feeling very left out on patch day. |
Jypsie
Wandering Star Enterprises
9
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Posted - 2012.07.26 07:11:00 -
[185] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:
I was under the impression that suicide ganking wasn't "designed" at all, insofar as all ships anywhere in space can be attacked by default.
CCP made the game mechanics knowing full well that ships could still fire on other ships in high sec even though war was not declared. CCP also sets the time to kill for CONCORD. CCP designed the setting, tools, everything that allows suicide ganking to occur, and has said that they are cool with it as long as someone does not avoid punishment by CONCORD. |
marVLs
25
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Posted - 2012.07.26 07:12:00 -
[186] - Quote
Good changes to mining ships, approved
And don't bother gankers, they are.... just don't |
Major Bibi
6
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Posted - 2012.07.26 07:13:00 -
[187] - Quote
to the OP learn to adapt you silly boy and be careful who you call stupid pigs , for some that is a serious insult
they not ungankable and there always will be silly miners going for maximum yield besides now as a ganker you will need to put in some more work to 'pvp ' someone who can't shoot back
putting more work into it ..yeah that must be the reason you acting like a crybaby
silly boy |
baltec1
Bat Country
1706
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Posted - 2012.07.26 07:16:00 -
[188] - Quote
Major Bibi wrote:to the OP learn to adapt you silly boy and be careful who you call stupid pigs , for some that is a serious insult
they not ungankable and there always will be silly miners going for maximum yield besides now as a ganker you will need to put in some more work to 'pvp ' someone who can't shoot back
putting more work into it ..yeah that must be the reason you acting like a crybaby
silly boy
You can no longer gank these ships and make any isk. Which means miners will more or less be the only profession in the game that face no real risk with their choices. |
dexington
74
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Posted - 2012.07.26 07:16:00 -
[189] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:The point is you don't even have to pay attention anymore, because it won't matter whatsoever.
Are we talking about mining, trading or planetary interaction?... even lvl4 missions can be done afk in drone boats. GÇ£The best way to keep something bad from happening is to see it ahead of time, and you can't see it if you refuse to face the possibility.GÇ¥-á |
Pipa Porto
498
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Posted - 2012.07.26 07:17:00 -
[190] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:Richard Desturned wrote:Pipa Porto wrote:Richard Desturned wrote:Pipa Porto wrote:From what I understand from another thread, it's Sig Radius is decreasing to an almost Frigate size. the skiff already has a frigate-sized sig Ok, not decreasing. Staying the same. Aren't 100k EHP Frigates a wonderful idea? oh wait, the skiff is getting its sig radius changed to 200 from 90 a hilarious side effect is that it'll be able to fit a 10mn afterburner and zoom around with the same tank as a T3 while acting as heavy tackle with its new utility midslot what great foresight there Wait, could it become the new t2 rifter
880m/s. Only problem is that it's align time's poor. But that's not a big deal when you have 100k EHP (before fleet bonuses) to get chewed through. EvE: Everyone vs Everyone |
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Herr Wilkus
Aggressive Salvage Services LLC Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
391
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Posted - 2012.07.26 07:19:00 -
[191] - Quote
Mara Rinn wrote:Malcanis wrote:I was under the impression that suicide ganking wasn't "designed" at all, insofar as all ships anywhere in space can be attacked by default. There's a fairy tale about a King who was looking for a master marksman to hunt the villains who kidnapped his daughter. His scouts brought him this bent, blunt old man carrying a bow, a quiver of arrows and a can of paint. The advisers exclaimed, "sire! This man is the most incredible marksman in the country! Every arrow he shoots hits the bullseye!" To demonstrate, the old man shot an arrow, which bounced off the edge of the target roundel, ricochet of a wall and embedded itself in a tree. The old man walked over to the tree and painted a bullseye around the arrow. TL;DR: GÇ£History shall be kind to us, for we shall write it!GÇ¥
Thats actually an amusing story.
Incidentally, Mara Rinn is a perfect example of the 'smart' high-sec miner. While I am generally inactive during the summer, I've recently made a few ganking passes through her mining systems. She tanks her Hulk hard, and is quite content to continue mining away - with ice at record high prices. She pays attention to her surroundings, knows that I work alone - and am unlikely to crack her tank without spending far more than I'd like. And she broadcasts warnings to the other miners in local.
Fortunately for me, there usually are a few targets in system that don't pay attention and I get my kills as well. I get to blow up some Exhumers, and she has less mining competition, allowing her to sell her ice at higher prices.
Win for the ganker, Win for the 'smart' miner, exactly how it should be.
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ChromeStriker
The Riot Formation Executive Outcomes
190
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Posted - 2012.07.26 07:20:00 -
[192] - Quote
Can i get a link to all these new stats??? where does it say barges have orca hp????? - Nulla Curas |
Phill Esteen
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
72
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Posted - 2012.07.26 07:22:00 -
[193] - Quote
Pipa Porto wrote:880m/s. Only problem is that it's align time's poor. But that's not a big deal when you have 100k EHP (before fleet bonuses) to get chewed through.
no no no, it needs to be fast enough to catch oversized AB Tengus GÇô postum faex est GÇô-á
never forget
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dexington
74
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Posted - 2012.07.26 07:25:00 -
[194] - Quote
ChromeStriker wrote:Can i get a link to all these new stats??? where does it say barges have orca hp?????
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=136222&find=unread
GÇ£The best way to keep something bad from happening is to see it ahead of time, and you can't see it if you refuse to face the possibility.GÇ¥-á |
Pipa Porto
498
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Posted - 2012.07.26 07:26:00 -
[195] - Quote
ChromeStriker wrote:Can i get a link to all these new stats??? where does it say barges have orca hp?????
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=136222 Discussion which includes some fits.
http://pastebin.com/frBc2muR Raw stats.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1686159 SISI forums discussion.
(Apparantly, the Sig is increasing to 200 on the Skiff. So they're gonna be cruiser sized sigs) EvE: Everyone vs Everyone |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
429
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Posted - 2012.07.26 07:36:00 -
[196] - Quote
Herr Wilkus wrote:Mara Rinn wrote:Malcanis wrote:I was under the impression that suicide ganking wasn't "designed" at all, insofar as all ships anywhere in space can be attacked by default. There's a fairy tale about a King who was looking for a master marksman to hunt the villains who kidnapped his daughter. His scouts brought him this bent, blunt old man carrying a bow, a quiver of arrows and a can of paint. The advisers exclaimed, "sire! This man is the most incredible marksman in the country! Every arrow he shoots hits the bullseye!" To demonstrate, the old man shot an arrow, which bounced off the edge of the target roundel, ricochet of a wall and embedded itself in a tree. The old man walked over to the tree and painted a bullseye around the arrow. TL;DR: GÇ£History shall be kind to us, for we shall write it!GÇ¥ Thats actually an amusing story. Incidentally, Mara Rinn is a perfect example of the 'smart' high-sec miner. While I am generally inactive during the summer, I've recently made a few ganking passes through her mining systems. She tanks her Hulk hard, and is quite content to continue mining away - with ice at record high prices. She pays attention to her surroundings, knows that I work alone - and am unlikely to crack her tank without spending far more than I'd like. And she broadcasts warnings to the other miners in local. Fortunately for me, there usually are a few targets in system that don't pay attention and I get my kills as well. I get to blow up some Exhumers, and she has less mining competition, allowing her to sell her ice at higher prices. Win for the ganker, Win for the 'smart' miner, exactly how it should be. This guy knows what's up.
Increasing mining barge/exhumer EHP and cargohold dumbs down the game. There's no other way around this simple fact. EVE's 4th of July Fireworks |
Dave stark
Bombardier Inc
261
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Posted - 2012.07.26 07:44:00 -
[197] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Dave stark wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:CCP Soundwave wrote:Yeah my point is that I don't think they should be profitable to gank. I think it should be possible, but not necessarily profitable (profitable might be the wrong word, but more that the expenses should be higher for the attacker than the defender). That's a nice sentiment I suppose, but it seems you've failed to back it up with anything resembling a justification. Do you have any idea what you're about to do to the game with this change? Do you seriously believe this is a good idea? MINERS THEMSELVES should be against this change, because it promotes lazy gameplay. Intelligent miners will be making far less, the price of minerals as a whole will drop, and supercapital production will be significantly cheaper. The only miners that will make any kind of money now are the same miners who find it difficult to pull a profit under these conditions because they're lazy and mine for hours simply because they don't even sit at their computers while they do it. How you could possibly think this is a good idea is beyond me. i nearly took you seriously until you said miners could be afk for hours demonstrating you've never mined for more than 5 mins in your entire life. Yeah, I admit I forgot the part where you press F1, F2, and F3, and then go about whatever you were doing before. The point is you don't even have to pay attention anymore, because it won't matter whatsoever.
and you still can't go afk for hours because asteroids will pop after about 6 mins. less if you're not using a hulk. Reading my posts is like panning for gold; most it will be useless, but occasionally you'll find a nugget of gold. |
Ziranda Hakuli
Relativity Holding Corp
124
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Posted - 2012.07.26 07:47:00 -
[198] - Quote
Richard Desturned wrote:CCP Soundwave wrote:Yeah my point is that I don't think they should be profitable to gank. I think it should be possible, but not necessarily profitable (profitable might be the wrong word, but more that the expenses should be higher for the attacker than the defender). so you're saying that it should literally cost half a billion to kill an afk mining hulk, one with nothing fitted as far as a tank, absolutely nothing trained as far as tanking skills and no effort taken to mitigate the risk of being blown up i'm not trying to put words in your mouth but that sounds like what you're trying to say by "it should cost more to kill a ship than what the ship is worth"
U mad bro? you butt hurt Mad? i think the goon is butt hurt mad cause someone cut into his profit margin!!! WOOOHOOO!!
Not sure what your smoking dude but you seriously gotta look at the numbers instead of going half cocked...woah!! forgot your goon you always go half cocked when its something you do not like.
where is my skiff at......hmm....need to load up on them ganker tears |
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
748
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Posted - 2012.07.26 07:48:00 -
[199] - Quote
Dave stark wrote:and you still can't go afk for hours because asteroids will pop after about 6 mins. less if you're not using a hulk. Oh, well, let me tell you about this little piece of software I have... (USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST) |
Dave stark
Bombardier Inc
262
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Posted - 2012.07.26 07:51:00 -
[200] - Quote
Destiny Corrupted wrote:Dave stark wrote:and you still can't go afk for hours because asteroids will pop after about 6 mins. less if you're not using a hulk. Oh, well, let me tell you about this little piece of software I have...
your signature makes this post even more amusing than it is. Reading my posts is like panning for gold; most it will be useless, but occasionally you'll find a nugget of gold. |
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Mara Rinn
Cosmic Industrial Complex Cosmic Consortium
1649
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Posted - 2012.07.26 07:54:00 -
[201] - Quote
Herr Wilkus wrote:Incidentally, Mara Rinn is a perfect example of the 'smart' high-sec miner. While I am generally inactive during the summer, I've recently made a few ganking passes through her mining systems. She tanks her Hulk hard, and is quite content to continue mining away - with ice at record high prices. She pays attention to her surroundings, knows that I work alone - and am unlikely to crack her tank without spending far more than I'd like. And she broadcasts warnings to the other miners in local.
Fortunately for me, there usually are a few targets in system that don't pay attention and I get my kills as well. I get to blow up some Exhumers, and she has less mining competition, allowing her to sell her ice at higher prices.
Win for the ganker, Win for the 'smart' miner, exactly how it should be.
The current balance is great: gankers who are careful can sustain their playstyle by eating their prey: T2 salvage and 2-6M ISK ice harvester modules go a long way to paying for the T2 blaster catalyst, methinks. Just as long as I am not the target :)
Removing the dumb miners and keeping the threat of suicide ganking real means there are fewer people keen to get out in the belts with max yield vessels, means there are tidy profits to be made for those who dedicate their play time to mining. Being alert means the miners have to form some form of community (intel channels, red/blue lists, conversations in local with strangers) and the game is a richer experience for it.
These new buffs will hurt actively playing miners and suicide gankers alike. After the changes, mining profitability will drop off a cliff because the only people doing it will be those asleep at the keyboard or whose cats are playing for them. People like me will switch to whatever else is better at raising ISK.
To the suicide gankers, thank you for your service to the community. And for not eating me :)
To CCP: I hope you have something up your sleeve, otherwise this barge buff will end up benefitting bots and sociopaths more than real players. I dread the thought of what you might have in the pipeline to counter the barge buff. The only buff the Hulk needed was 10PG.
I will be alert for the inevitable Tornado trio ganking my Hulk as the gankers bid their careers goodbye.
Day 0 advice for new players: Day 0 Advice for New Players |
Jypsie
Wandering Star Enterprises
9
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Posted - 2012.07.26 08:07:00 -
[202] - Quote
Quote:After the changes, mining profitability will drop off a cliff because the only people doing it will be those asleep at the keyboard or whose cats are playing for them.
Or maybe the gankers will have to go back to shooting each other to make their money. Get their asses back out there blowing each other up and creating upward pressure on the price of minerals.
The risk free money of blowing up a exhumer, looting the t2 strips, salvaging intact plates, and getting a isk GG pat on the ass from goons all for the cost of a well fit dessie isn't going to be there anymore.
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Dave stark
Bombardier Inc
262
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Posted - 2012.07.26 08:09:00 -
[203] - Quote
Jypsie wrote:Quote:After the changes, mining profitability will drop off a cliff because the only people doing it will be those asleep at the keyboard or whose cats are playing for them. Or maybe the gankers will have to go back to shooting each other to make their money. Get their asses back out there blowing each other up and creating upward pressure on the price of minerals. The risk free money of blowing up a exhumer, looting the t2 strips, salvaging intact plates, and getting a isk GG pat on the ass from goons all for the cost of a well fit dessie isn't going to be there anymore.
the fact still remains; mineral prices will be going down. Reading my posts is like panning for gold; most it will be useless, but occasionally you'll find a nugget of gold. |
Jypsie
Wandering Star Enterprises
9
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Posted - 2012.07.26 08:12:00 -
[204] - Quote
Quote:the fact still remains; mineral prices will be going down.
True. Its the nature of the industry. Just have to hope for more wars.
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Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
748
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Posted - 2012.07.26 08:14:00 -
[205] - Quote
Ah, yes, the good old "gankers should grow balls and go shoot each other" argument. I guess for people who've never once fit guns to their ships, it always has to be one or the other. (USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST) |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
1704
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Posted - 2012.07.26 08:14:00 -
[206] - Quote
Pipa Porto wrote:Sam Ruger wrote: And Ganker is too stupid to bring some friends along to help.
Fitted Properly, a Hulk cannot be profitably ganked right now.
It shouldn't be profitably ganked.
Do you profitably gank empty badgers or T2 fitted BCs?
Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
Dave stark
Bombardier Inc
262
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Posted - 2012.07.26 08:17:00 -
[207] - Quote
Jypsie wrote:Quote:the fact still remains; mineral prices will be going down. True. Its the nature of the industry. Just have to hope for more wars.
even as a miner i kinda like lower mineral prices. it still takes me the same amount of time to buy most things, and anything else i do is worth more relative to what it was worth in terms of purchasing power. Reading my posts is like panning for gold; most it will be useless, but occasionally you'll find a nugget of gold. |
Herr Wilkus
Aggressive Salvage Services LLC Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
393
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Posted - 2012.07.26 08:19:00 -
[208] - Quote
Mara Rinn wrote:
Good stuff. Soundwave should try and absorb what I have to say.
Couldn't have said it better myself - and I've been saying it for 3-4 years now.
Remove the predators from the equation and you end up with large numbers of very stupid prey - and they starve when they exhaust the food supply (ie, overrun the demand for minerals/ice.)
All miners end up the same, with no challenges to distinguish (and reward) the intelligent ones over the slow and stupid.
And yes, make no mistake - this IS removing predators from the equation, because gankers are not going to waste 500M ISK to gank your AFKing, 200M ISK Mackinaw, let alone over a billion to kill your 120M ISK Skiff.
Somehow I don't think 'belt rats' are going to pose a credible threat to these new Exhumers.
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
1705
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Posted - 2012.07.26 08:21:00 -
[209] - Quote
La Nariz wrote:If these changes go through I'd like to see CCP put bot hunting into overdrive. These changes will make botting all the more easier because you don't need to worry about that mining ship getting ganked.
Totally wrong. Botters have 20 replacement ships, their money comes from huge quantity over time not from survivability.
A small mining op can make 300M a day, a botter makes 900M+. Imagine how much they care to lose a ship every now and them. Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
Jypsie
Wandering Star Enterprises
9
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Posted - 2012.07.26 08:23:00 -
[210] - Quote
Destiny Corrupted wrote:Ah, yes, the good old "gankers should grow balls and go shoot each other" argument. I guess for people who've never once fit guns to their ships, it always has to be one or the other.
You realize lots of miners producing cheap ships and lots of wars blowing up those cheap ships are good for the game, right? Circle of life/production/destruction?
PvP'ers cannibalizing miners is counter-productive to the flow of the game. Shooting your foot so to speak.
Pussies did it though because they could make a quick buck without having to put up a fight.
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