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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 12 post(s) |
Suqq Madiq
Amarr Empire
223
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 20:31:00 -
[1471] - Quote
Jorma Morkkis wrote:- Gankers whine
That sums up the thread.
Gankers whining that they have to put effort into finding profitable ganks.
Gankers whining that they have to make friends to gank tanked ships.
Gankers whining that not every ship in EVE is profitable to gank.
Gankers whining.
All ships can be ganked. Some ships can be ganked profitably. Some ships cannot be ganked profitably. Mining ship rebalance changes none of this. |
Dez Affinity
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
136
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 20:31:00 -
[1472] - Quote
Also I've done the whole 'kill the suicide catalyst' things. I would get in a Thrasher with 8 remote sensor boosters on me and tackle the mon their out gate, then they started fitting stabs, I could only catch one anyway and they could just go to a different system.
I also would camp their home system station after a gank with a sensor booster thrasher to pod them and make it expensive for them in implants/clones but that's easy to work around too. |
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy Caldari State
125
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 20:32:00 -
[1473] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:I can assure you that the stupidity of people is such that in 9 years they indeed never learn a very simply lesson. Fit a damn tank.
Hulk will be for fleet mining ops after the patch. No need to fit a tank because ships protecting those Hulks will be doing the tanking stuff. |
Dave stark
Bombardier Inc
294
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 20:34:00 -
[1474] - Quote
Jorma Morkkis wrote:baltec1 wrote:I can assure you that the stupidity of people is such that in 9 years they indeed never learn a very simply lesson. Fit a damn tank. Hulk will be for fleet mining ops after the patch. No need to fit a tank because ships protecting those Hulks will be doing the tanking stuff.
indeed, polite gankers will target your combat ships first. Reading my posts is like panning for gold; most it will be useless, but occasionally you'll find a nugget of gold. |
Arkon Olacar
Imperial Guardians Tribal Band
103
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 20:34:00 -
[1475] - Quote
Jorma Morkkis wrote:baltec1 wrote:I can assure you that the stupidity of people is such that in 9 years they indeed never learn a very simply lesson. Fit a damn tank. Hulk will be for fleet mining ops after the patch. No need to fit a tank because ships protecting those Hulks will be doing the tanking stuff. You are implying that your average miner will notice the patch, and change their afk mining habits. We are talking about people who pay for the priviledge of being a bot, not exactly the brightest bulbs in the box here. "The rest will be in the blog rather than invented at the keyboards of forum posters and bloggers." -á-á-á-á-á-á-á - CCP Sreegs, 23/06/2012
Umad forum warriors? |
Dave stark
Bombardier Inc
294
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 20:36:00 -
[1476] - Quote
Arkon Olacar wrote:Jorma Morkkis wrote:baltec1 wrote:I can assure you that the stupidity of people is such that in 9 years they indeed never learn a very simply lesson. Fit a damn tank. Hulk will be for fleet mining ops after the patch. No need to fit a tank because ships protecting those Hulks will be doing the tanking stuff. You are implying that your average miner will notice the patch, and change their afk mining habits. We are talking about people who pay for the priviledge of being a bot, not exactly the brightest bulbs in the box here.
sure they will when they wonder why A) their cargo is now only 350m3, and B) where did their ore go because it's not in the 350m3 cargo hold. Reading my posts is like panning for gold; most it will be useless, but occasionally you'll find a nugget of gold. |
Pipa Porto
539
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 20:37:00 -
[1477] - Quote
Anvil44 wrote:Pipa Porto wrote:
Bolded for you. The numbers should be about the same vs AM. It also has enough tank vs EMP, Quake, Fusion, or PP to survive 2 volleys of a Nado. No Fleet boosts, and only a 4% Grid Inplant.
If they bring 2 Nados, they're spending 140m to kill you. That's shot profit in the face.
I hadn't realized Void could improve someones EHP. As I said, the best that a lvl V could do against any one damage type was 32k against explosive. The 39k must have been pulled out of that place where the sun doesn't shine...or you are forgetting to list implants. But 32k is still great against explosive. And I have to use the lvl V pilot as I just realized I don't have all my skills to lvl V that would help to improve my tank. Whoops.
There is no pure Explosive ammo. Void does 50/50 Kin/Therm. With Heat, this gets 84.5/88.4 Kin/Therm resists on 4k Shields, 44.1/35.5 on 1.27k Armor, and 58/58 on 3.16k Hull.
Pyfa does the math for me and totals it out to 39,193EHP vs Void Ammo. Feel free to check it's work. I've double checked, 1 4% Grid Implant, no Fleet Boosters.
Vs Fusion 45.7k EHP Vs AM 39.9k EHP Vs EMP 33.6k EHP Vs Quake 45.3k EHP Vs PP 36.7k EHP Vs Pure Explosive, 46.1k EHP EvE: Everyone vs Everyone
-RubyPorto |
baltec1
Bat Country
1724
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 20:38:00 -
[1478] - Quote
Danny Diamonds wrote:Need waders for the **** piling up from pointless "Max tank" Hulk fits.
Need a snorkel to breathe with all the ganker tears.
Waders must be low slots...too bad my lows are all full of tank fittings. Snorkel is a high slot but it seems I only have one or two in most mining vessels.
The only PVP ships that max tank fit are bait...so why should miners be expected to give up Yield for max tank? This is akin to removing all damage mods on PVP or PVE ships..which is rarely ever done. Some slots used for tank makes sense surely, but the extreme bullshit suggested here is pathetic.
Well appart from all fleet line ships that use shields. |
Pipa Porto
539
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 20:39:00 -
[1479] - Quote
Dez Affinity wrote:Also I've done the whole 'kill the suicide catalyst' things. I would get in a Thrasher with 8 remote sensor boosters on me and tackle the mon their out gate, then they started fitting stabs, I could only catch one anyway and they could just go to a different system.
I also would camp their home system station after a gank with a sensor booster thrasher to pod them and make it expensive for them in implants/clones but that's easy to work around too.
Sit 5k off the Hulks in a Seboed, tracking 650 Nado. You'll 2 Volley Catalysts once they go GCC. EvE: Everyone vs Everyone
-RubyPorto |
Pipa Porto
539
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 20:39:00 -
[1480] - Quote
Dave stark wrote:Jorma Morkkis wrote:baltec1 wrote:I can assure you that the stupidity of people is such that in 9 years they indeed never learn a very simply lesson. Fit a damn tank. Hulk will be for fleet mining ops after the patch. No need to fit a tank because ships protecting those Hulks will be doing the tanking stuff. indeed, polite gankers will target your combat ships first.
Your Combat ships can kill the gank in progress before the Hulks die. Or Jam them. EvE: Everyone vs Everyone
-RubyPorto |
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Corina Jarr
Spazzoid Enterprises Purpose Built
1127
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 20:40:00 -
[1481] - Quote
Dez Affinity wrote:Stay aligned? You're being silly. He'll go out of range of the asteroid he's mining within 5 minutes of mining, out of range of his Orca/secure container within 1 minute. Sorry, aligning might 'save' him but it kills his profitability to practically zero.
Staying aligned is the easiest way to stay alive and make plenty of profit.
Works best in fleet ops, since the Orca can tractor jettisoned stuff. Ok solo as long as you don't mind warping to station when full.
You make a bunch of BMs off grid in a ring around the belt. You then fly to each one in such a way that you can mine continuously for hours, being aligned almost every second. The only way for someone to get you when using this method is to scan down your BMs (bumping is impractical because anything that could bump the miner off course enough would have to be uncloaked, and they could warp long before the bump occurred).
Mining is already nearly 100% safe if the morons would put some effort in. Instead, they want to be safe while away from the computer. They deserve to get blown up.
If you haven't guessed, I hate those miners (or any group for that matter) that demand changes to something that would work fine if they bothered to do things themselves. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
439
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 20:41:00 -
[1482] - Quote
MIrple wrote: Will survive 3 cats in a .5 system
I should add that this fit isn't even specialized to tank Catalysts. EVE's 4th of July Fireworks |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
439
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 20:44:00 -
[1483] - Quote
Not to mention staying aligned is even easier when having a corp frigate double web you. EVE's 4th of July Fireworks |
Corina Jarr
Spazzoid Enterprises Purpose Built
1127
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 20:44:00 -
[1484] - Quote
Suqq Madiq wrote:Jorma Morkkis wrote:- Gankers whine That sums up the thread. Gankers whining that they have to put effort into finding profitable ganks. Gankers whining that they have to make friends to gank tanked ships. Gankers whining that not every ship in EVE is profitable to gank. Gankers whining. Here are some facts. All ships can be ganked. Some ships can be ganked profitably. Some ships cannot be ganked profitably. Mining ship rebalance changes none of this. No its people (hint: not all of us are gankers... mostly) arguing that CCP is taking the changes too far. They are making the tanky miners pointless by making the Hulk and Mack more than tanky enough. No need to make a choice. Just use the Hulk for ore, and mack for ice/afk. |
Nikolai Dostoyevski
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
15
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 20:46:00 -
[1485] - Quote
OP apparently thinks MLUs and cargo expanders shouldn't be in the game at all.
Yawn - same old story. Wanna be griefers are disappointed and the inevitable whining ensues.
Griefer tears are the sweetest tears. They love to inflict meaningless pain on others but cry like babies when you take away their toys. |
Asuri Kinnes
Adhocracy Incorporated Adhocracy
548
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 20:46:00 -
[1486] - Quote
This thread is comedy frikken gold...
Interdict Hi-Sec - it's the only way to be sure... |
Dez Affinity
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
136
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 20:50:00 -
[1487] - Quote
Pipa Porto wrote:Dez Affinity wrote:Also I've done the whole 'kill the suicide catalyst' things. I would get in a Thrasher with 8 remote sensor boosters on me and tackle the mon their out gate, then they started fitting stabs, I could only catch one anyway and they could just go to a different system.
I also would camp their home system station after a gank with a sensor booster thrasher to pod them and make it expensive for them in implants/clones but that's easy to work around too. Sit 5k off the Hulks in a Seboed, tracking 650 Nado. You'll 2 Volley Catalysts once they go GCC.
You don't know what belt they're warping to until they warp to it. Following them in a thrasher works ok, you can sometimes snag a pod or a catalyst but you won't save the hulk.
Corina Jarr wrote: You make a bunch of BMs off grid in a ring around the belt. You then fly to each one in such a way that you can mine continuously for hours, being aligned almost every second. The only way for someone to get you when using this method is to scan down your BMs (bumping is impractical because anything that could bump the miner off course enough would have to be uncloaked, and they could warp long before the bump occurred).
OOh come on you can't be serious, makes off grid book marks in ever belt you want to mine in and remember where each one is and at what apex of your orbit while keeping in range of the asteroids. That's harder than PvP! You could argue that they should be using celestials to do the same thing, that, is much easier.
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James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
439
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 20:50:00 -
[1488] - Quote
The only tears I see are those of miner babies crying that the rest of us with some common sense are in here pointing out their idiocy. EVE's 4th of July Fireworks |
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy Caldari State
125
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 20:51:00 -
[1489] - Quote
Asuri Kinnes wrote:This thread is comedy frikken gold...
At least a lot of ganker tears in this thread. |
Soundwave Plays Diablo
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
65
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 20:54:00 -
[1490] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Soundwave Plays Diablo wrote:Profitability in ganking is largely irrelevant.
If you lost X amount of isk per gank, but your income was that same X amount more than the miner, you could sustain your gank squad indefinitely. Eventually that would cause pilots who pay via PLEX to no longer play Eve. And at 200+mil a loss for the miner, it would not take long if one was 'singled out'. I can assure you that the stupidity of people is such that in 9 years they indeed never learn a very simply lesson. Fit a damn tank.
Fitting a tank is completely irrelevant, as much as people like to argue it.
(Gankers net profit per hour while not gankning) - (gankers net loss while ganking) = Gankers profit per hour.
(miners profit per hour) - (miners cost of operation per hour) = Miners profit per hour.
As long as the gankers profit is positive, I.E. actually profit, they will be able to keep the ganking campaign up indefinitely.
The miners can only mine indefinitely if they also have net profit. When you need 10 hours of work to replace your ship it puts the miner at a more than 10:1 disadvantage no matter how much tank they fit.
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Pipa Porto
539
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 20:57:00 -
[1491] - Quote
Dez Affinity wrote:Pipa Porto wrote:Dez Affinity wrote:Also I've done the whole 'kill the suicide catalyst' things. I would get in a Thrasher with 8 remote sensor boosters on me and tackle the mon their out gate, then they started fitting stabs, I could only catch one anyway and they could just go to a different system.
I also would camp their home system station after a gank with a sensor booster thrasher to pod them and make it expensive for them in implants/clones but that's easy to work around too. Sit 5k off the Hulks in a Seboed, tracking 650 Nado. You'll 2 Volley Catalysts once they go GCC. You don't know what belt they're warping to until they warp to it. Following them in a thrasher works ok, you can sometimes snag a pod or a catalyst but you won't save the hulk.
I'm saying you camp the Hulks. And you will Blap a Catalyst (probably 2) before their 20s are up. You lock faster than they do, and you kill one every other ~3.5s cycle. That means, unless they bring an extra 1 or 2 Catalysts to the Gank, the Hulk survives.
If you're trying to hit them before they gank, go with an 1200 Arty Nado on the gate and blap them as they try to warp. EvE: Everyone vs Everyone
-RubyPorto |
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy Caldari State
125
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 21:03:00 -
[1492] - Quote
Pipa Porto wrote:I'm saying you camp the Hulks. And you will Blap a Catalyst (probably 2) before their 20s are up. You lock faster than they do, and you kill one every other ~3.5s cycle. That means, unless they bring an extra 1 or 2 Catalysts to the Gank, the Hulk survives.
Could work. Thrasher only has 550 scan resolution vs Catalyst's 500. I don't think that makes a big difference. |
baltec1
Bat Country
1724
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 21:04:00 -
[1493] - Quote
Soundwave Plays Diablo wrote: Fitting a tank is completely irrelevant, as much as people like to argue it.
(Gankers net profit per hour while not gankning) - (gankers net loss while ganking) = Gankers profit per hour.
(miners profit per hour) - (miners cost of operation per hour) = Miners profit per hour.
As long as the gankers profit is positive, I.E. actually profit, they will be able to keep the ganking campaign up indefinitely.
The miners can only mine indefinitely if they also have net profit. When you need 10 hours of work to replace your ship it puts the miner at a more than 10:1 disadvantage no matter how much tank they fit.
Miners have yet to go out of profit. Indeed, right now they are having the biggest boom in EVE history, all while under the gankers "opression".
Also you will have to explain to us why fitting a tank which will stop you from getting killed is irrelevant. Given that being killed is what you are whining about. |
Nikolai Dostoyevski
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
15
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 21:09:00 -
[1494] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:The only tears I see are those of miner babies crying that the rest of us with some common sense are in here pointing out their idiocy.
Oh this is getting even better. My bucket isn't big enough! |
Pipa Porto
539
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 21:11:00 -
[1495] - Quote
Jorma Morkkis wrote:Pipa Porto wrote:I'm saying you camp the Hulks. And you will Blap a Catalyst (probably 2) before their 20s are up. You lock faster than they do, and you kill one every other ~3.5s cycle. That means, unless they bring an extra 1 or 2 Catalysts to the Gank, the Hulk survives. Could work. Thrasher only has 550 scan resolution vs Catalyst's 500. I don't think that makes a big difference.
Nado. TOR-NA-DO.
Buncha Sebos, Buncha 425s (650s also work, but 425s can 2 shot them and tracking helps you make sure you connect strong).
Catalysts have ~4k EHP vs Fusion
This does 2246 per shot and cycles every 2.79s. Locks in 1.2s to a Cats 2.1s Lock on a Hulk. So every 6s you're killing a Catalyst, and you get to start as soon as they GCC.
[Tornado, Protect Ze Miners]
Tracking Enhancer II Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II
Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution Script Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution Script Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution Script Tracking Computer II, Tracking Speed Script Tracking Computer II, Tracking Speed Script
Dual 425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Fusion L Dual 425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Fusion L Dual 425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Fusion L Dual 425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Fusion L Dual 425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Fusion L Dual 425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Fusion L Dual 425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Fusion L Dual 425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Fusion L
Medium Projectile Collision Accelerator I Medium Targeting System Subcontroller I [Empty Rig slot]
EvE: Everyone vs Everyone
-RubyPorto |
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy Caldari State
126
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 21:11:00 -
[1496] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Also you will have to explain to us why fitting a tank which will stop you from getting killed is irrelevant. Given that being killed is what you are whining about.
After the patch: Tank Skiff Tank Mack Put few invuls on Hulk (tanking will be done by Scimi/Basi pilot who can tank over 5000) |
Dave stark
Bombardier Inc
295
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 21:22:00 -
[1497] - Quote
hang on... what's the biggest tank you can fit while still maxing yield (t2 strips, 2x mlu IIs) on a hulk with the new stats? Reading my posts is like panning for gold; most it will be useless, but occasionally you'll find a nugget of gold. |
baltec1
Bat Country
1724
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 21:25:00 -
[1498] - Quote
Nikolai Dostoyevski wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:The only tears I see are those of miner babies crying that the rest of us with some common sense are in here pointing out their idiocy. Oh this is getting even better. My bucket isn't big enough!
So this is someone who has seen an EVE meme and not understood it correctly and then used it in the wrong way and made a terrible post. Don't be this guy |
Sentamon
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
76
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 21:29:00 -
[1499] - Quote
I dare someone to read this whole thread. ~ Professional Forum Alt -á~ |
Dave stark
Bombardier Inc
295
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 21:30:00 -
[1500] - Quote
Sentamon wrote:I dare someone to read this whole thread.
people have done; i get a random like, then about 15 mins later i'll get another one about 20 pages on etc... people are reading it but by the time they get this far they've fallen asleep, clawed their eyes out, or jumped out of the window. Reading my posts is like panning for gold; most it will be useless, but occasionally you'll find a nugget of gold. |
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