Just add one more turret, come one, do it. Then we can have a dedicated gas mining ship.

To be fair, the bonuses do appear to turn 2 harvesters into 5. And think of the delicious ORE hold......How much could you hold in a BC (which was my mining ship of choice) ??

Can we get a little more cargo space? 50m3 of liquid ozone isnt enough for a cyno.


Edit: I'm not even joking.

Thatstheidea.jpg

Gets owned by gas cloud damage, GFGF

Are they old hulls being repurposed or mothballed? I always like the navitas hull but had no use for it.

Does the bonuses stack?

It appears that it gives 100% + 25% = less than 5 gas harvasters !!!

unless the formula goes with +100% to the already +25% value, then it is indeed equal to 5 harvasters

*snip*

Mining frigate skill bonuses:
+5% to mining yield per level
+5% to gas harvesting yield per level
Role bonuses:
+100% to mining yield
+100% to gas harvesting yield
+ 2 warp core stabilizer bonus
Slot layout: 3 H, 3 M, 1 L, 2 turrets
Fittings: 45 PWG, 240 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 225 / 175 / 200
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 250 / 125s / 2
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 335 / 3.6 / 1200000 / 4.04s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 10 / 10
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 15km / 750 / 5
Sensor strength: 4 Magnetometric
Signature radius: 40
Cargo capacity: 50
Ore hold: 5000


Constructive comments are welcome

This is an entry-level mining ship, by the looks of it. I'd expect a T2 version of it to be focused on gas mining rather than a (supposedly) cheap T1 frigate, so don't get your knickers in a twist over a cheap, fragile-as-a-pod t1 frigate that doesn't quite mine as well as the others.

Hay CCP Ytterbium, I would like to chime in w/ a suggestion.

Everything looks really good as a mining frigate (I guess) but you know, this wouldn't be a bad little ninja salvager ship if you would give it a little bit of a bonus to salvaging (5%?) and at least 250m3 of cargo space. Doable?

I think this should be made as a limited edition series for Winter Holidays using this hull as a salvager.

That's just me though.

NEVER MIND! I am so so happy for that role bonus. Completely fixes the role versus cruisers.

Hello folks,

This topic is about the ORE frigate coming out this winter. While its concept art can be seen in the Ship Balancing Summer Update blog and some speculation has already started, time has come to talk about it in details.

Designed as an entry mining ship, it will replace the old 4 mining frigates in the Industry Career Path (the Tormentor, Bantam, Navitas and Burst). Compared to them, it has a much improved mining output, capacitor reliance and mobility, while having a decent 5000m3 ore hold. Its purpose is to be a fast hull capable of mining in hostile space (even if the current value of high-sec ores defeats this quite a bit, but that's another problem). It also serves as a gas harvester, a profession that was lacking love until now. With its +2 warp core strength bonus, it should stand a fair chance of doing its job in low-security space without being instantly tackled and killed.

It also comes with a brand new skill, mining frigate, rank 2. Further down the drain we will change mining barge skill requirements to need mining frigate at 4, but not for winter - we'll most likely do that at the same time as the Destroyer and Battlecruiser skill changes to minimize training issues and complications. Again, since its the entry ship for mining, expect the market price to be low.


Mining frigate skill bonuses:
+5% to mining yield per level
+5% to gas harvesting yield per level
Role bonuses:
+100% to mining yield
+100% to gas harvesting yield
+ 2 warp core stabilizer bonus
Slot layout: 3 H, 3 M, 1 L, 2 turrets
Fittings: 45 PWG, 240 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 225 / 175 / 200
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 250 / 125s / 2
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 335 / 3.6 / 1200000 / 4.04s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 10 / 10
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 15km / 750 / 5
Sensor strength: 4 Magnetometric
Signature radius: 40
Cargo capacity: 50
Ore hold: 5000


Constructive comments are welcome

Does gas fit in an ore bay? Assuming it does, the only appeal this ship has to me (wormhole gas sucking) is that it will cost less when it blows up (gas suckers are expensive!) it seems to be bonuses for gas, but it actually is no bonus at all.

I hope there are plans for a gas ship, because this is not the messiah we were promised!

Well I guess that answers that.

Looks good.

And yes, folks, despite its name, gas is automatically harvested into the Ore hold. Wanted to file a bug report to CCP Tuxford in case it didn't, but he was quite clever and implemented that ahead of time during the mining barge changes Clever girl.

And yes, folks, despite its name, gas is automatically harvested into the Ore hold. Wanted to file a bug report to CCP Tuxford in case it didn't, but he was quite clever and implemented that ahead of time during the mining barge changes Clever girl.

Thanks for the response! <3

-Liang

Depends on where you are harvesting. None of the lowsec or WH clouds I've ever mined have ever done damage. They don't explode. This is unique to a specific handful of nullsec clouds.

Frankly, I'd prefer all booster-gas mining and drug production be moved into lowsec anyways, but thats a debate for another thread...

Isn't 750 scan resolution too much for mining frig? It's not supposed to catch pods on gates I guess.

And yes, folks, despite its name, gas is automatically harvested into the Ore hold. Wanted to file a bug report to CCP Tuxford in case it didn't, but he was quite clever and implemented that ahead of time during the mining barge changes Clever girl.

Isn't 750 scan resolution too much for mining frig? It's not supposed to catch pods on gates I guess.

Stop looking at its implementations for a fully maxed out industry character!

This STARTING mining ship isn't ment for accomplished hulk pilots, maxed out gas harvesting pilots or any one that can fly a mining barge! Its ment as a starting ship for industry just like the T1 Frigate is ment to be a starting ship for combat pilots.

The ships it replaces were by FAR less effective. This frigate can even serve as a low skilled ore hauler. Starting characters can easily get enough yield out of this thing till they skill up and are able to buy the mining barges, and after that its still usefull to hold on to for your first adventures as a gas cloud miner.

Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 250 / 125s / 2

Bonus needs to be bigger so its not pointless training ore frig 5 to do the job a destroyer or cruiser can do at level 1. 10% instead of 5% would do it, the damage tanking is fine, even in null there are sites that do no damage and it seems reasonable that someone would need a cruiser hull stank for the big sites.

Bonus needs to be bigger so its not pointless training ore frig 5 to do the job a destroyer or cruiser can do at level 1. 10% instead of 5% would do it, the damage tanking is fine, even in null there are sites that do no damage and it seems reasonable that someone would need a cruiser hull stank for the big sites.

ORE frig-aggedon?

The bonus is fine, and the fact it's even on the ship means that CCP realizes that new players will fairly quickly replace it and get into a barge for mining. People need to realize that the gas harvesting bonus is an ancillary benefit of the ship to keep it relevant.

And yes, folks, despite its name, gas is automatically harvested into the Ore hold. Wanted to file a bug report to CCP Tuxford in case it didn't, but he was quite clever and implemented that ahead of time during the mining barge changes Clever girl.

The bonus is fine, and the fact it's even on the ship means that CCP realizes that new players will fairly quickly replace it and get into a barge for mining. People need to realize that the gas harvesting bonus is an ancillary benefit of the ship to keep it relevant.

Mining Frigate will be a rank 2 skill, which is like 10 days to the 'established' players. If that's too high a price, you can continue harvesting gas in bcs, cruisers or destroyers.

It's actually more than relevant for "casual" gas mining. With Gas Mining II and ORE Frigate III (which is, what, half a day of training?) you get the equivalent of 4.6 gas miners with a ****-ton of cargo.

The ore hold on the other hand is great, as is the warp strength bonus so mayb it would be worth it.

This is why I would choose the frigate over a BC, for instance. ****, look at the align time of this thing...

So I can continue to fly my Harbinger or Thorax or Moa or whatever with many stabs and 5x Gas Harvester IIs or I can divert my training path to push a Rank 2 skill to 5 to then get the same performance? Bad deal for the industrialists. I was really hoping to switch over to this shiny thing when carebearing in a hole.

Edit: On the other hand, that huge ore (gas) hold is appealing.

Hrm... seeing as Gas Clouds come in chunks of 10m3 and you can't harvest half-chunks the gas bonus is completely useless on T1 harvesters and only useful on T2 harvesters when maxed.

At lvl 1 it would give 21m3 on a T1 Harvester but you can't harvest 1m3 of gas. So you harvest 2 chunks. At lvl 5 you harvest 25m3 but, again, you only get 2 chunks. Only with a T2 Harvester and ORE Frigate V do you hit 50m3 which translates to one additional chunk gained.

Skill Level <-> Actual yield per T1 Harvester <-> Actual yield per T2 Harvester
1 <-> 20m3 <-> 40m3
2 <-> 20m3 <-> 40m3
3 <-> 20m3 <-> 40m3
4 <-> 20m3 <-> 40m3
5 <-> 20m3 <-> 50m3

Yeah i am coming round to it. I just don't really like the idea of a bonused hull doing something (harvesting gas) no better than an entirely unrelated hull with no bonuses for it with less sp invested. Its more a finesse thing than an actual practical issue i guess.

cool did not know destroyers had cargo hold of 5k

Plenty bads in this thread crying. I have never taken damage from harvesting gas that you make boosters from.

cool did not know destroyers had cargo hold of 5k

Hrm... seeing as Gas Clouds come in chunks of 10m3 and you can't harvest half-chunks the gas bonus is completely useless on T1 harvesters and only useful on T2 harvesters when maxed.

At lvl 1 it would give 21m3 on a T1 Harvester but you can't harvest 1m3 of gas. So you harvest 2 chunks. At lvl 5 you harvest 25m3 but, again, you only get 2 chunks. Only with a T2 Harvester and ORE Frigate V do you hit 50m3 which translates to one additional chunk gained.

Skill Level <-> Actual yield per T1 Harvester <-> Actual yield per T2 Harvester
1 <-> 20m3 <-> 40m3
2 <-> 20m3 <-> 40m3
3 <-> 20m3 <-> 40m3
4 <-> 20m3 <-> 40m3
5 <-> 20m3 <-> 50m3

Not all gas is in 10m3 chunks.

Take Fullerite-C28 for example. It's 2m3 per unit. or C50, at 1m3.

Bonus needs to be bigger so its not pointless training ore frig 5 to do the job a destroyer or cruiser can do at level 1. 10% instead of 5% would do it, the damage tanking is fine, even in null there are sites that do no damage and it seems reasonable that someone would need a cruiser hull stank for the big sites.

The large 0.0 only sites have a percentage chance with each cycle of emitting a therm smartbomb effect of 1000 damage that hits everything within 5k of the cloud. That can be nasty if you get unlucky and get several damage bursts in a row. Its much worse with multiple ships as each one has a chance of triggering the effect and any mining must be within 1.5k of the cloud. So while you might be able to fit this frig to tank on its own 2 or 3 would die.

Still if you are going to kill the rats defending the site (there alot in the biggest site) and mine it instead of just mining the same gas out of the smaller low sec sites that also spawn in 0.0 and have no damage one assumes you can fit out a couple of moas and a hauler :).

3/3/1 ? ok mid slots for tank... low for... warpcorestabilizer ftw!!!

Although it really need +5 drone bandwidth and + 15m-¦ drone bay.

But I don't see it solo on unknown space... Make a t2 version for WH exploration, ninja-miner with good tank and cloak!!!!

Anyway, I loved the frigate! Good Job!

Low for MLU II it can easily fit this with minimal core skills

Modulated Deep Core Miner II x2
Tractor for jet can, or Salvager for looting wrecks

1MN Afterburner II
Survey Scanner II
Resist mod or Small Shield Booster

Mining Laser Upgrade II or Damage Control II if you want more EHP instead of yield

Rigs to taste

also with good fitting skills you could get a medium shield extender, but that will puff your sig up a bit.

- About 1-2 too many mid-slots.

- Needs slightly more capacitor.

- Scan resolution seems high, # of max targets seems high.

- 5000 m3 of ore bay is a bit on the large side, 3000-4000 m3 would be more reasonable for a giveaway ship

- Scan resolution seems high.

There doesn't need to be more annoying salvagers in highsec. It isn't meant to be a "ninja" profession.

I can see this for using a cloak in the utility high slot

And yes, folks, despite its name, gas is automatically harvested into the Ore hold. Wanted to file a bug report to CCP Tuxford in case it didn't, but he was quite clever and implemented that ahead of time during the mining barge changes Clever girl.

I too believe the bonus should be a cycle time bonus instead of yield because of what others have mentioned about yield bonuses making no impact on gas havesters due to volumes.

The only thing that really bugs me is that a dedicated gas mining ship does not mine more gas than any other ship fitted for gas mining (provided that ship has 5 turret slots).

So i'd suggest to either add a turret or to increase the gas yield bonus, just for the sake of it.

Also, if the drone bandwidth is not 25 just to avoid to make it a powerfull combat-droneboat, you could add a malus to drone damage, so that it could still use a full flight of mining drones.

The only thing that really bugs me is that a dedicated gas mining ship does not mine more gas than any other ship fitted for gas mining (provided that ship has 5 turret slots).

So i'd suggest to either add a turret or to increase the gas yield bonus, just for the sake of it.

Also, if the drone bandwidth is not 25 just to avoid to make it a powerfull combat-droneboat, you could add a malus to drone damage, so that it could still use a full flight of mining drones.

Hello folks,

This topic is about the ORE frigate coming out this winter. While its concept art can be seen in the Ship Balancing Summer Update blog and some speculation has already started, time has come to talk about it in details.

Designed as an entry mining ship, it will replace the old 4 mining frigates in the Industry Career Path (the Tormentor, Bantam, Navitas and Burst). Compared to them, it has a much improved mining output, capacitor reliance and mobility, while having a decent 5000m3 ore hold. Its purpose is to be a fast hull capable of mining in hostile space (even if the current value of high-sec ores defeats this quite a bit, but that's another problem). It also serves as a gas harvester, a profession that was lacking love until now. With its +2 warp core strength bonus, it should stand a fair chance of doing its job in low-security space without being instantly tackled and killed.

It also comes with a brand new skill, mining frigate, rank 2. Further down the drain we will change mining barge skill requirements to need mining frigate at 4, but not for winter - we'll most likely do that at the same time as the Destroyer and Battlecruiser skill changes to minimize training issues and complications. Again, since its the entry ship for mining, expect the market price to be low.


Mining frigate skill bonuses:
+5% to mining yield per level
+5% to gas harvesting yield per level
Role bonuses:
+100% to mining yield
+100% to gas harvesting yield
+ 2 warp core stabilizer bonus
Slot layout: 3 H, 3 M, 1 L, 2 turrets
Fittings: 45 PWG, 240 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 225 / 175 / 200
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 250 / 125s / 2
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 335 / 3.6 / 1200000 / 4.04s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 10 / 10
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 15km / 750 / 5
Sensor strength: 4 Magnetometric
Signature radius: 40
Cargo capacity: 50
Ore hold: 5000


Constructive comments are welcome

b]Mining frigate skill bonuses:[/b]
+5% to mining yield per level
+5% to gas harvesting yield per level
Role bonuses:
+100% to mining yield
+100% to gas harvesting yield
+ 2 warp core stabilizer bonus
Slot layout: 3 H, 3 M, 1 L, 2 turrets
Fittings: 45 PWG, 240 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 225 / 175 / 200
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 250 / 125s / 2
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 335 / 3.6 / 1200000 / 4.04s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 10 / 10
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 15km / 750 / 5
Sensor strength: 4 Magnetometric
Signature radius: 40
Cargo capacity: 50
Ore hold: 5000


Constructive comments are welcome

I like the promise of this.

But I think the +2 warp strenght should be very well reseved for a T2 variant of this ship!

This ship can already fit a cloak, right?

Cargo capacity: increased to 130~150 [buff, i for see there being things necessary to be carried 50 seems too limiting]

I'm banking that CCP wont do a T2 variant for some time, rather have the bonuses as it is then to nerf it and have them on a T2 version later on.

also bare in mind that is meant to be for new players and as such there need to be a certain amount of hand holding. (i know a thousand of eve players just screamed out at once for saying that and fully expect to see the flame coming my way)
and yes i like to pwne noobs just as much as the other guy but its not fun if they quit after suffering losses.

also to take into account that new players like to feel empowered, lets let feel empowered even though they aren't and need to get some skills under their belt before they can be. thats not to say everything new players should see is a cheep illusion, there should be a desire to contribute and the means to do it. in another words some things have to be given to gain a feeling of confidence.

+2 Warp Core Strength and 4.04 align time? With the one low slot and (I assume) 3 rig slots you can bring down that align time to less than 3. How are you supposed to kill this thing solo? Or catch it running gate camps?

Decloack, lock and kill :) Some ships have no re-calibration time, other ships have it at 3 seconds when fully trained. Fit some sensor boosters and y'r going to catch one. Anyone mining in this thing has some reaction time until he hits "Warp to" - at least some 2 seconds. Do the math.

+2 Warp Core Strength and 4.04 align time? With the one low slot and (I assume) 3 rig slots you can bring down that align time to less than 3. How are you supposed to kill this thing solo? Or catch it running gate camps?

Do noobs even have the scanning skills to find low sec gas sites?

Are they old hulls being repurposed or mothballed? I always like the navitas hull but had no use for it.

Hrm...

Two (gas) miner IIs, cloak, MWD, a few shield modules, DCU or nano, rigs to taste, looks like it'll all fit. The ore hold is pretty damn big, but I won't complain. The drones are pretty useless but it's an upgrade path option.

4 sec align time is tasty.

Or try this out:

Aall but unscannable when fit with ECCM. The aligns to warp in 2.6 seconds, cruises around at 450m/s with no prop mod.

With a 5000m3 ore hold and the inherent warp stabs, it's a fantastic ship to fly into neighboring wormholes to do some gas mining. Clear c50s and leave before the rats even spawn.

Which seems a bit overpowered for a frigate that will be given away for free by the tutorial missions. What you describe sounds a lot more like what the T2 variant should be capable of, not the freebie T1 version.

Clearly the +2 warp strength isn't even needed.

In my opinion it should get one more low slot in exchange for the +2 warp strength, increase the align time by a second or a second and a half, a bit more cap and some additional HP, and maybe a slight drop in scan res.

Faction scrambler.

The ECCM has no effect on probing anymore IIRC.

+ 2 warp core stabilizer bonus

Faction scrambler.

Mining frigate skill bonuses:
+5% to mining yield per level
+5% to gas harvesting yield per level
Role bonuses:
+100% to mining yield
+100% to gas harvesting yield
+ 2 warp core stabilizer bonus
2 turrets
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 225 / 175 / 200
Ore hold: 5000

Having harvested gaz in nullsec, I dont see how this frigate is relevant for it in any way.
2 gas harvesters running at 250% gives you the same yield as any gaz-huffing ferox.
5000 bay is nice, but only do for 500 units, while sites contains 1000, 3000 or 9000. A ferox reshipping into an industrial ship will probably save time overall.
Finally, all gas clouds in nullsec features either rats (at least 3 BS for the smallest ones I encountered, up to about 20 ships with siege towers and web), or gas cloud explosions which cannot be avoided for the harvester and amounts between 1000 and 2000 damages each cycle.

This frigate offers the same yield as any other ship, an barely relevant cargo, and is unable to do anything anyway.

Hay CCP Ytterbium, I would like to chime in w/ a suggestion.

Everything looks really good as a mining frigate (I guess) but you know, this wouldn't be a bad little ninja salvager ship if you would give it a little bit of a bonus to salvaging (5%?) and at least 250m3 of cargo space. Doable?

Having harvested gaz in nullsec, I dont see how this frigate is relevant for it in any way.
2 gas harvesters running at 250% gives you the same yield as any gaz-huffing ferox.
5000 bay is nice, but only do for 500 units, while sites contains 1000, 3000 or 9000. A ferox reshipping into an industrial ship will probably save time overall.
Finally, all gas clouds in nullsec features either rats (at least 3 BS for the smallest ones I encountered, up to about 20 ships with siege towers and web), or gas cloud explosions which cannot be avoided for the harvester and amounts between 1000 and 2000 damages each cycle.

This frigate offers the same yield as any other ship, an barely relevant cargo, and is unable to do anything anyway.

we estimate the +2 warp stabilizer bonus to be fine for now - the ship almost has no defense on its own, and desperately needs it to compete in the areas it's supposed to operate.

I hate to be rude, but literally what are you even talking about? You're talking about a frigate. Something that takes a couple of seconds to align and warp. It also has a utility high for a cloak, meaning once its off-grid it can literally vanish without sacrificing a mining laser at all to do it. It has no defenses because it's a bloody industrial ship. It's defensive ability is its ability to quickly run away.

My shuttle / ibis / Mammoth / Orca have no defenses either, are you gonna give them all built-in WCS as well? Explain to me why it's necessary to make an already-escapable ship literally invulnerable to 95% of solo PvPers.

The +2 warp strength really isn't that good. also you cannot stop a truly determined opponent. if you wanna catch noobs in mining frigs fit more points, its not like they can shoot back.

Ok. In that case, please add a mid slot to every ship in the game so I can fit "enough" points to tackle a mining ship without completely gimping my ship for every other purpose.

Also, I would love for you to explain to me how to use my determination to keep people from warping out of their mining site when a hostile appears in local. Since even huge, clumsy ships like carriers can be off the field before a tackler can arrive on their location, I'd really LOVE to know how to stop even fast-aligning ships using my own willpower. Do elaborate!

Pirates will whine... how should they kill noobs in the future if they always simply warp away once scrammed?


I think this is an interesting change. It would be nice if by this low-sec would be much more populated by miners etc. The good thing is that it is self-balancing. If we really should end up in the situation that everyone and his dog are flying the ORE mining frigate in low-sec then pirates will adapt and simply fit three points on their ships to catch them. But they will only do this if there really will be enough of them to kill. So I think this is a very promising change!

Having harvested gaz in nullsec, I dont see how this frigate is relevant for it in any way.
2 gas harvesters running at 250% gives you the same yield as any gaz-huffing ferox.
5000 bay is nice, but only do for 500 units, while sites contains 1000, 3000 or 9000. A ferox reshipping into an industrial ship will probably save time overall.
Finally, all gas clouds in nullsec features either rats (at least 3 BS for the smallest ones I encountered, up to about 20 ships with siege towers and web), or gas cloud explosions which cannot be avoided for the harvester and amounts between 1000 and 2000 damages each cycle.

This frigate offers the same yield as any other ship, an barely relevant cargo, and is unable to do anything anyway.

That cargo bay will be wonderful for someone with low skills.

I think you mis-read the stats. The cargohold is only 50m3.

It seems almost like this is based on the idea that by making mining frigates harder to catch and kill, it will encourage 0.0 mining.

Which I guess might possibly be true if 0.0 mining wasn't so worthless and boring, though it still misses the fundamental point - the biggest benefit to encouraging 0.0 industry is that it restores the first link in the food chain, that of vulnerable, tempting targets for solo-ers and small gang-ers to catch and kill, and that auto-stabbed frigate hulls don't particularly fit in the 'vulnerable targets' description.

To be honest i think the entire +2 warp strength thing is for getting away from belt rats.

..... Please do not kill the game. (As CCP said themselves somewhere, do not make things easy, make things apprehensible....
P.S.: Sorry for the long post and if it is confusing sometimes. I am no native speaker.

Because the only way to prevent newbies from being tackled by rats is to give their ship a buff that also nullifies the effect of player-operated modules?

They could, IDK, make rat scrams a separate effect, or remove tackling rats from belts instead of making this ship un-tacklable by sensibly-fit player ships?

Constructive comments are welcome

Hey folks,
Regarding the gas yield performance itself, keep in mind this remains an entry level ship, not supposed to outclass the competition in every single area. This ship is highly mobile, has a good storage capacity, it should not be the best at everything regarding gas or we would be falling back into the old Hulk case all over again

So, if person will decide to use this frigate with two gas harvesters, then whats the point training gas harvesting skill to level 5? Large ore hold is nice, but still not enough, you will have to eject your gas and haul with industrial ship or similar ways. Same gas harvesting efficiency as battlecruiser with 5 gas harvesters. Good job at creating another "echelon" (good for nothing). I will stick to battlecruiser, have decent tank, drone bay and be able to bait with my gas harvesting ship :)

Think about it, why should i train another new skill for it, if i can get same efficiency with any other ship already?

I'd figure the sole purpose of the +2 warp strength is to be able to enter lowsec and make travelling gate to gate a bit safer.

Because the only way to prevent newbies from being tackled by rats is to give their ship a buff that also nullifies the effect of player-operated modules?

They could, IDK, make rat scrams a separate effect, or remove tackling rats from belts instead of making this ship un-tacklable by sensibly-fit player ships?

So, if person will decide to use this frigate with two gas harvesters, then whats the point training gas harvesting skill to level 5?

The gas harvesting skill is +1 harvester per level. That now seems sort of useless beyond L2 (except for T2 harvesters). Why would anyone want to train gas harvesting to L4? 4 harvesters on a cruiser under produce compared to this frigate.

I suggest consider re-defining the gas harvester skill. Maybe remove the "one per level" and make it a cycle time reduction skill, or a range increasing skill, or.... something. Something so Gas Harvesting L3 is better than L2, and L4 is better than L3, even when using this new frigate.

Sigh, Goon tears.... Concerning the warp core strength whine, Impel also has +2 wc strength, and what do you do with other ships that fit stabs to slip through gates and dangerous places? Just use multiple pilots, faction point, or get this...an interdictor! Yes, they are nice little ships...come in destroyer and cruiser sizes! more than a match for a frigate sized excavator.
Maybe just join the militia if you want to fight another player. Its a game, and part of the game is healthy industry, not just non-stop destruction. PvP always about not enough risk for industrials for the risk, well, not enough risk for PvP pilots just out to smash a noob in his noob ship, that can't even shoot back.

The Impel is also a 100m isk T2 ship, not a frigate handed out for free with minimal to nonexistent skill requirements. It also has the align time of a supertanker, meaning if I stumble upon one in the wild while flying solo I can bump-tackle it and kill it that way. It's also a hauler, meaning that it spends 90% of its time traveling through gates (you know, to haul things) rather than sitting (possibly aligned) in some mining site ready to warp to a safespot and cloak at the drop of a hat. None of these things is true of the ORE frig. There's no reason for it to have a WCS bonus except that CCP seem to be feeling the need to make everything mining-related 100% idiot-proof lately.

mining needs some love, this ship will simply require nonstandard tactics and fits to catch, its not toally uncatchable, you are more likely to catch this than a stealth bomber... you could volley it, smart bomb it, faction scram it, or bubble it, off the top of my head. and only one of those requires you to be in nulsec. is it so bad that a Noob in a noncombatant ship actually has a decent chance to dodge PVP when they aren't in the mood for it somplace other than Highsec?

I'd figure the sole purpose of the +2 warp strength is to be able to enter lowsec and make travelling gate to gate a bit safer.

Basically to make sure the "newbie" doesn't make his first entry (probably for a tutorial mission) into lowsec, gets cracked tackled 'n popped right on the first gate and decides lowsec isn't worth it.

Isn't that the same reason it's on the Deep Space Transports? They've got HP to take the blows while they align, and the +2 to make them viable ships to run around lowsec. And in some remote past what the Skiff was partly meant for?

Obviously it has no use in null as you've got bubbleboys there. But for lowsec I see its uses for industrialists. Lowsec duders just adapt fitting more scrams and SeBo's.

DSTs were designed prior to HICs with their infinite points. Possibly even before bubbles were a thing... Main thing DSTs seem to get used for these days is a tanky hi-sec hauler for times when you can't afford the Orca. Otherwise you break out the blockade runner with it's covops cloak.

(The whole +1/+2 warp core stabilizer vs warp disruptors / scramblers system needs a redesign of some fashion to make it less binary and more "longer to warp out". DSTs are also in need of a rebalance, probably by giving them more cargo and/or bubble immunity.)

Sigh.

I guess CCP should just make all non-combat ships have 3m ehp with 99.9% resists and immunity to targeted and untargeted interdiction. And 0.5 second align time, like pods. I think that would be fair. After all, people in those kinds of ships don't want to fight!

The Impel is also a 100m isk T2 ship, not a frigate handed out for free with minimal to nonexistent skill requirements. It also has the align time of a supertanker, meaning if I stumble upon one in the wild while flying solo I can bump-tackle it and kill it that way. It's also a hauler, meaning that it spends 90% of its time traveling through gates (you know, to haul things) rather than sitting (possibly aligned) in some mining site ready to warp to a safespot and cloak at the drop of a hat. None of these things is true of the ORE frig. There's no reason for it to have a WCS bonus except that CCP seem to be feeling the need to make everything mining-related 100% idiot-proof lately.

Can someone please describe the step by step process of how this ship will be flown? E.g. where are you going to use it, what are you going to do with it, etc.

Can't believe I am responding to this...I stab my exhumers in null. That bother you? I do it because its safer, and even skiffs have a pretty quick align time, but mine have like nearly 90k ehp. Your scrammed, doesn't matter how much ehp you have really, if you don't get help soon in a barge, your done...Because they are not combat ships. Number two, it's a game, it's supposed to be fun. If it makes you cry that some ships have a special role you don't like, quit. I heard of more than one miner who quit the game completely after losing successive hulks during Goon sponsored Hulkageddon.

Guess what I am trying to say, It's not just your game, other people play too, and spend alot of money doing it. Miners generally have more than one alt they fly at once. You see, you can't run a successful subscription game when the only dynamic that gets any attention is the griefing one. Obviously, you have to trust why the Devs gave the ship that bonus...they gonna be doing more than flying through a gate camp. These are the people that bring you the stuff that ships are built from.

Okay that sounds like a realistic use of the ship and it does in fact make it a cool little ore mining ship for those new miners that aren't afraid of a bit of risk but for gas mining, i don't think it's much use.

Gas clouds damage you in a WH from what I hear, and some folks complaining about the durability of the ORE frigate. Might be worth using a more durable ship for WH then...Maybe a T2 in the future for the cloud damage? Nothing been said yet.

I don't understand the point of having a specialized ship if it's not going to out perform what we use today. IMO it needs an additional turret hardpoint to make it worthwhile. I know it's a frigate, and most people that harvest gas are using cruisers or BC's, but cmon man. You've already got 3 highs in there...just give it that third hardpoint and make everyone happy.

Because it's /not/ a gas specialist.

It's a replacement for the basic mining frigates. Which happens to also have a bonus to gas.

Which still leaves something of a hole in the gas mining specialty ship slot, since there isn't a mining barge that can fit gas miners.

While still thinking about this industry, an extremely handy and small change, would be to allow Rorquals to compress gas into liquid form to reduce bulk for transportation.

So many people in here who just have no friggin clue about gas mining.