Update: CCP has once again shat on ganking in order to turn highsec into a risk-free carebear paradise.

Retribution is all about balancing ships and what not, so why not balance out ganking a bit while you're at it? Over the last eight years, ganking has been nerfed nearly into the ground, with only a few select groups of highly skilled, well funded individuals continuing to separate stupid highsec mongoloids from their precious shiny things. Why not buff immoral activity for a change? Reward smart people for taking basic precautions against dying and loss, like not traveling around with billions in their hold, not clicking on the contracts in Jita local, and not traveling the Rancer Pipe with hundreds of PLEX in the cargo bay.

Ganking keeps getting hit with more and more nerfs: pretty soon there won't be that "cold harsh universe" left that CCP keeps going on about in their promos. EVE belongs to the violent, the venal, and the brilliant. Buff ganking. Nerf dumb people.

Complaining about CCP nerfing way you kill helpless transports and freighters in HS. It takes real skill and effort. Your F1 button must me ON FIRE!. I salute you sir.

Yet another super creative insult from a hisec pubbie.

The changes mean that it is not possible to profitably gank macks so it is impossible to adapt and this, macks face no real threat. It also means that the skiff is rendered useless and the hulk shunned due to its tank making it profitable to gank if no tank is fitted. The macks invulnerability also means that mining bots are thriving which has had a disasterous impact on ice prices and has stalled mineral price growth as the markets get flooded with minerals. The sudden arrival of hundreds of bots has also forced up the price of plex which is hurting everyone who uses them. The barge update has also failed in its main goal of getting all of the barges roles to play.

Posted again because people dont bother to read and think this is all about easy killmails.

What's with the 'can't shoot back' theme people like to use? Mining ships have drone bays you know. Also POS's have defences (Most of the time).

Thanks for reinforcing my point:)

I also hear rumors that anyone is free to shoot at people who illegally fire upon innocent ships.

Why don't miners bring friends? They keep telling us to bring friends to gank them, afterall.

This is dishonoulable. >:(


If they brought friends, then the main mining ship of choice wouldn't be the mackinaw (or its t1 equivalent). Draw from that what inference you like.

The changes mean that it is not possible to profitably gank macks so it is impossible to adapt .

They don't care about the effort that goes in to settng up a gank & bury their heads in the sand when it's explained.

Is it so hard to understand that it was not just about "you should tank it"? Exhumers had few hundreds base HP and costs as battleship. They were shot down just for lol near the stations, near the gates etc... Hell, even t1 barges were shot down just for lol, because gank was extremely cheap. I didnt heard about Battleships or Cruisers that have few hundred HP by default.

Have you ever heard about mining ships with expensive modules? You know, like l4 Mission boats with expensive stuff.

Speaking of an effort.... I heard that ganking miners in T1 destroyers was very very very difficult in skills, isk, effort.... oh wait...

Is it so hard to understand that it was not just about "you should tank it"? Exhumers had few hundreds base HP and costs as battleship. They were shot down just for lol near the stations, near the gates etc... Hell, even t1 barges were shot down just for lol, because gank was extremely cheap. I didnt heard about Battleships or Cruisers that have few hundred HP by default.

All you have to do now, is just fit nice high dps talos, fit one ship scanner and search for juicy targets with expensive modules..... speaking of an effort

First, in no way did they have "a few hundred" base HP. Even raw HP. Stop Lying.

You're whining that your Tech 2 Ship is not as sturdy as a Tech 1 ship that costs similar amounts? Waahaha, My Marauder doesn't have half the base HP of a Carrier.

They had more base EHP than most T2 Cruisers and could tank better than most HAC's standard fittings. If HAC pilots sat around AFK in space with no tank, and a full rack of guns, they'd get ganked too.

Got any killmails of properly tanked pre-Buff Hulks you can show that would imply they actually needed a buff?

And all you have to do is fit a tank. Now that's serious effort, right there.

Waahaha, My Marauder doesn't have half the base HP of a Carrier.

What sort of idiot would stick office/faction/deadspace mods on a mining barge which never moves outside of hisec in its life?

While you can fit T2 cruiser to be good at tank and at the same time good dps, you could fit your hulk only for good tank or gtfo. Can you tell me then what options miners have in fitting if their only option was to fit the tank? What purpose had MLU if you couldnt fit them?

Same idiots who fit office/faction/deadspace mods on their l4 mission boats.

Oh dear... im pretty sure that you didnt slept, ate or talked to people when you ganked and lost your ultra expensive t1 catalyst (and few % of sec status). The consequences had to be sooo horrible that it definitely damaged your psyche.

Then lets nerf all ships in eve so every hull will have only 1000 base HP (even titans) and have only 50 PG.

Well we can play this" game" for ethernity . So again : All you have to do now, is just fit nice high dps talos, fit one ship scanner and search for juicy targets with expensive modules... Now that's serious effort

To be honest, I see plenty of Macks mining with Orca support for the extra ease of use.

From my own experience the attention span of a pvp pilot on overwatch during routine mining is the same as a small child in a toy store. No offense to the pvp pilot, but is just isn't what they want to be doing (other than new alliance players trying to score browniw points, but that usually fades). Mining ships should be able to attempt tanking until help arrives and or get the hell out, or die. My idea about gankers bringing friends is that the wolf pack gank squad sounds like a very legitimate tactic to keep costs down and to increase gameplay. Just my opinion.

From my own experience the attention span of a pvp pilot on overwatch during routine mining is the same as a small child in a toy store. No offense to the pvp pilot, but is just isn't what they want to be doing (other than new alliance players trying to score browniw points, but that usually fades). Mining ships should be able to attempt tanking until help arrives and or get the hell out, or die. My idea about gankers bringing friends is that the wolf pack gank squad sounds like a very legitimate tactic to keep costs down and to increase gameplay. Just my opinion.

All while fitting cargo expanding modules.

No. That makes absolutely no sense. If you fit nothing but cargo expanders you will have no tank and those lows would be better suited to MLU's to be honest. I don't think it has to be a black and white argument. No exhumer is going to stand up to a concerted effort to gank it, especially in nullsec but fitted properly I think it should have a prayer of assistance being able to reach it if coordinated properly.

"They had more base EHP than most T2 Cruisers"
They had also much more PG to use (thousand and more vs 40-50) = the ability to fit large tank extenders. While you can fit T2 cruiser to be good at tank and at the same time good dps, you could fit your hulk only for good tank or gtfo. Can you tell me then what options miners have in fitting if their only option was to fit the tank? What purpose had MLU if you couldnt fit them?

How many hulks have you seen, pre-buff, which did not have cargohold optimization rigs?

To be honest, I see plenty of Macks mining with Orca support for the extra ease of use.

So it's not just Macks anymore, now it's also about Orca. Whining is getting a bit out of control...

So it's not just Macks anymore, now it's also about Orca. Whining is getting a bit out of control...

"...with Orca support for the extra ease of use."

"...with Orca support for the extra ease of use."

I think this thread has almost gone as far as it can but I'm not quite willing to close it just yet, if you can all get back on topic. This thread is not another "Issues with mining barges" thread, we already had that.

Since ganking isn't restricted to high sec nor is it restricted to barges/exhumers, lets see if we can't get the thread out of this very narrow channel it seems to have gotten wedged in, and back to something resembling its starting point. I genuinely wanted to see what would come of this topic, as I'm pretty sure many of you do.