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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 12 post(s) |
Miss Carry
Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo
7
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Posted - 2013.01.14 08:22:00 -
[391] - Quote
Hmm, this is an interesting discussion.
So it's not just about the gate-mechanics, but also about something to fight over.
Putting the gate back in doesn't seem to cut it as i can tell from the responses.
So what we want is some "unfarmable" kind of treasure that's tempting enough for people to go there and fight over it? With ship restrictions and all.
I think the sad faces are less about the old plex, but more about a lack of shinies to fight over. And the DED's served that role, even with it's flaws.
It would be an opportunity to rework non-fw lowsec in general but that would take a long time, considering ccp has other projects in queue.
The suggestion of putting them back in without treasure is one step towards us, wich i appretiate, but not enough.
Let's keep making suggestions and be optimistic and not be grumpy :)
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Turgesson
Five-0
25
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Posted - 2013.01.14 14:52:00 -
[392] - Quote
Miss Carry wrote:
Let's keep making suggestions and be optimistic and not be grumpy :)
You know as well as I do that isn't going to work. We can sit here and talk about it until we're blue in the face and we will still get "arenas" designed without our suggestions. If you want your stuff back you better start shooting things they don't want you to shoot and force this issue to the top of the wipeboard in these "planning" meetings.
I like the Venture idea...no herding cats needed. It's cheap, you can do it solo at -10, they are everywhere, 2 shots off a thrasher usually strips the ship and cracks the pod before the cops show up and "new players" are the ones who will whine the best for us to be returned to our natural habitats. Add in scan boats to round out the preferred target list to what 90% of potential new subscribers fly in their first few months and sprinkle with autopiloting pods.
I wouldn't consider taking some kind of action as being grumpy and it doesn't have to stop us from giving suggestions. Really everything that can be said has been and if the past is any guide talking does nothing. DOING something has an effect.
(CCP Bettik was the one who worked on this stuff. I've been telling everyone I gank it's his fault they lost their stuff and he says they should go back to WoW until he's finished making "interesting pve experiences" for them.) |
Schmata Bastanold
Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo
536
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Posted - 2013.01.14 15:06:00 -
[393] - Quote
Turgesson wrote:(CCP Bettik was the one who worked on this stuff. I've been telling everyone I gank it's his fault they lost their stuff and he says they should go back to WoW until he's finished making "interesting pve experiences" for them.)
Heheheh, waiting for "CCP Bettik ganked my venture" on GD :)
I know I said I won't post here anymore but my metrics don't show enough farming on forums. I am not my skills but... http://eveboard.com/pilot/Schmata_Bastanold |
Caldain Morrow
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
11
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Posted - 2013.01.14 18:53:00 -
[394] - Quote
Has anyone thought of keeping the static 1,2/10 plexes and have them drop only pirate faction loot in stead of deadspace loot and open them up for exploration as well and have the exploration sites drop the deadspace loot? We keep our existing dueling space with a little less farming potential but open up the DED sites to entry level explorers. Doing a 3/10 in a Dessie is difficult never mind a 4/10. MOAH emergent game play not less. |
Vincent R'lyeh
Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo
102
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Posted - 2013.01.14 22:04:00 -
[395] - Quote
Caldain Morrow wrote:Has anyone thought of keeping the static 1,2/10 plexes and have them drop only pirate faction loot in stead of deadspace loot and open them up for exploration as well and have the exploration sites drop the deadspace loot? We keep our existing dueling space with a little less farming potential but open up the DED sites to entry level explorers. Doing a 3/10 in a Dessie is difficult never mind a 4/10. MOAH emergent game play not less.
To late this thread is no longer about the reinstatement of the 2/10's and is instead about how we will plan our revenge starting with a few 'CCP Bettik caused this Gank' roams in high-sec.....
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Olleybear
I R' Carebear
175
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Posted - 2013.01.14 23:18:00 -
[396] - Quote
Vincent R'lyeh wrote:plan our revenge starting with a few 'CCP Bettik caused this Gank' roams in high-sec..... You know, this right here is just another reason why I love this game. Both because someone came up with the idea to blame a specific dev for hi-sec ganks and because CCP allows pilots to do this kind of stuff.
When it comes to PvP, I am like a chiwawa hanging from a grizzley bears pair of wrinklies for dear life. |
Sylvous
Bigger than Jesus
86
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Posted - 2013.01.15 08:45:00 -
[397] - Quote
Miss Carry wrote: Let's keep making suggestions and be optimistic and not be grumpy :)
I would tend to agree with you on this one but I need to cut some slack for those who are ending their calm well thought conversation. Its been over a month since we first brought this up and still the DEV who is responsible for overseeing these changes has said nothing, if I were being ignored like that I would be pissed too and throwing $#!+ around as well... wait, I am being ignored aren't I?
At any rate the way I see it is that the players have done a excellent job listing their complaints, discussing ideas and suggestions to the problems, but we are being ignored. Without input from a DEV who is serious about tackling the issue discussion will flounder and eventually peter off until this is a forgotten topic at the bottom of the forums. Sad to say if CCP wants to execute this strategy they can, and it will work seeing as without DEV input we very quickly can cover all our ideas since they will not be met with the criticism needed from a DEV who cares about low sec and the vibrant PVP that these PVE complexes led to. Also if CCP doesn't want to do anything I suppose they don't have to since it is their product.
With the current prices of the potential drops from the DED 1 & 2 sites there will be many a assault ship wreck sitting around those plexes should they be reinstated. Honestly I find that this is a great opportunity for CCP to foster even more PVP. With the high sec versions gone, those seeking the "easy" isk will have to fight for the right to be able to get a chance at the loot, and with the prices so high, many people will want to take the risk to go after the possibility. The removal of the highsec complexes was a golden idea, and would have reinvigorated PVP in lowsec on a whole new scale. Though admittedly having removed them entirely for a time will only work to bolster the PVP had at these complexes should they be reinstated now since the supply of the DED modules is slowly dwindling.
Again I also advocate for some changes to the complexes to avoid the exploitation of being able to cloak and wait for the overseers to spawn in the final room and farm the complex at minimal risk, but that has been discussed in great detail throughout this thread.
To any DEV that has a interest in doing something positive for the community, take a good look at this thread and give it a read in its entirety. We the dwellers of low sec seem to have an idea on how these work, and how they can be improved, and if you disagree with us, give us your thoughts and opinions so we can either understand why these changes have been made or give us the opportunity to show you why you are wrong (we've put ourselves out there for criticism).
CCP boasts that the game is community driven, and that the players make significant contributions to the changes that effect the course of game development. The challenge that our community is trying to give you now is: MAKE THAT STATEMENT TRUE.
Sylvous |
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CCP Goliath
C C P C C P Alliance
1339
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Posted - 2013.01.15 16:16:00 -
[398] - Quote
Guys I appreciate you're really frustrated, but making the thread even more hostile than it already is isn't going to attract the developer attention you're looking for. CCP Goliath | QA Director | EVE Illuminati | @CCP_Goliath |
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Swifty Blowback
Republic University Minmatar Republic
17
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Posted - 2013.01.15 16:24:00 -
[399] - Quote
CCP Goliath wrote:Guys I appreciate you're really frustrated, but making the thread even more hostile than it already is isn't going to attract the developer attention you're looking for.
Any hints as to what will? |
Schmata Bastanold
Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo
544
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Posted - 2013.01.15 16:32:00 -
[400] - Quote
I didn't realize we are hostile. Are you saying hisec ganking is no longer viable option and will be frowned upon? Oh boy, that escalated quickly. I am not my skills but... http://eveboard.com/pilot/Schmata_Bastanold |
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Kane Rizzel
NovaKane Incorporated You've got RED on you
62
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Posted - 2013.01.15 16:56:00 -
[401] - Quote
Didn't realise this was hostile... A Pirate's Perspective Official EVE Online Fan Site |
Turgesson
Five-0
25
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Posted - 2013.01.15 17:28:00 -
[402] - Quote
CCP Goliath wrote:Guys I appreciate you're really frustrated, but making the thread even more hostile than it already is isn't going to attract the developer attention you're looking for.
With all due respect, history disagrees with you and even your presence on this page is proof that it will.
Remember it was CCP's decision to not give anyone a heads up that this change was going to come with retribution so we could participate in testing and suggest things before any KNOWN harm was done. I would say almost all of us opened our patch notes to see what goodies we got to only see our home systems made into ghost towns.
I've added a bio to direct people to your forums with the reason they are being mass murdered in high sec and loosing their only possesions in New Eden. This isn't meant as a hostile act against CCP it's just presure and numbers to make our end of the metrics matter. I don't want to be hostile to any developer willing to at least meet us halfway with returned plexes in LOW SEC. We can deal with drop rates, types of loot, ways to gain keys/unlocking the gates full time, variations in the respawn timers, etc..after they are returned and work on them until we are both satisfied.
You don't have an unreasonable bunch here but a simple "NO, now let's talk about no loot arenas" isn't going to fly. |
MrDiao
SUNDERING Goonswarm Federation
11
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Posted - 2013.01.16 02:09:00 -
[403] - Quote
Turgesson wrote:with returned plexes in LOW SEC. We can deal with drop rates, types of loot, ways to gain keys/unlocking the gates full time, variations in the respawn timers, etc..after they are returned and work on them until we are both satisfied. .
The answer should be "No". Exploration system should do what it supposed to do, if you want to encourage low-sec people's activities, introduce another idea called "low-sec static deadspace to encourage low-sec pvp", not by abusing the exploration complex system, especially for what aims at helping the newbies to start the game. |
Laktos
Gunpoint Diplomacy
268
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Posted - 2013.01.16 03:13:00 -
[404] - Quote
MrDiao wrote:Turgesson wrote:with returned plexes in LOW SEC. We can deal with drop rates, types of loot, ways to gain keys/unlocking the gates full time, variations in the respawn timers, etc..after they are returned and work on them until we are both satisfied. . The answer should be "No". Exploration system should do what it supposed to do, if you want to encourage low-sec people's activities, introduce another idea called "low-sec static deadspace to encourage low-sec pvp", not by abusing the exploration complex system, especially for what aims at helping the newbies to start the game.
Oh good, another person who doesn't live in low-sec and has no idea what they're talking about.
Just fyi, the old 2/10's were a fantastic place for newbies to get into PVP and provided a loot drop that didn't take months of training to obtain all at the same time.
Latest PVP Video: Perseverance
Sard Caid does not endorse this message. |
Schmata Bastanold
Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo
544
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Posted - 2013.01.16 07:46:00 -
[405] - Quote
Goon talking against abusing game mechanics - priceless. I am not my skills but... http://eveboard.com/pilot/Schmata_Bastanold |
Volstruis
The Tuskers
10
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Posted - 2013.01.16 08:50:00 -
[406] - Quote
CCP Goliath wrote:Guys I appreciate you're really frustrated, but making the thread even more hostile than it already is isn't going to attract the developer attention you're looking for.
I think you'll find ignoring people and trying to inspire meaningless debate will lead to increased hostility ... This is 'serius business' TM after all :)
If the answer is no, we are not putting them back, we've told you why, htfu, then just say it. I don't understand why we need to lobby for developer attention, discuss a million random things. If this thread can convince you to change them back to the way they were in low sec, and this thread will do it, people will keep posting and getting more hardcore about it.
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Robinton Jax
Minmatar Death Squad Broken Chains Alliance
7
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Posted - 2013.01.16 09:35:00 -
[407] - Quote
Laktos wrote:
Just fyi, the old 2/10's were a fantastic place for newbies to get into PVP and provided a loot drop that didn't take months of training to obtain, all at the same time.
Thats how I got started 1v1 pvping, fit out a dirt cheap PvP Rifter and went out. I would get some PvP and learn something, or a drop. Better than running 4's like a robot.
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Alex Medvedov
Gunpoint Diplomacy
31
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Posted - 2013.01.16 12:59:00 -
[408] - Quote
As the long time frigate pilot and frequent 2/10 plex visitor I would like to add a few words to this topic.
First the idea of simple accelaration gates which was proposed by CCP will not work, as was pointed out already, because there will be no incentives for pilots to frequently visit or more importanly to stay for a some time in that empty pocket.
Let me demonstrate how the pirates think. Nobody sane likes the camping - regardless if you are about to camp acceleration gate, gate or a station. So if you are on the roam you jump into system and check your scanner - have you found no ships around? You will move on. Thats the problem if tose empty pockets in space, nobody will be staying there just because theres small chance once a day some bored dude might come along.
The plexes on the other had were different.
1) To complete them the visitor had to spend some time there and therefore he created a window of opportunity for any pvp pilot lucky enough to be around.
2) The plexes were worth visiting even if you were the only one in local - you were able to do the plex, gain some money and wait for any opposition to show up.
3) The plexes were attracting not only pirates but the pve playeyers as well, which in turn provided the wider target selection for pirates and provided sometimes the first taste of EVE PVP combat for pvers.
Truth is that the plexes could be camped, the plex mechanics was rather imperfect, but still they were able to drag some more people to low-sec, especially in areas like Molden Heath where 4 of them were relatively close to to each other. And thats preciselly what low sec needs - more activity! And more activity needs more opportunities to do something!
Can really see how would the reintroduction of 1/10 and 2/10 plexes into low sec brake anything ballance wise. Those plex rewards are not so high after all. |
Minmatar Citizen160812
The LGBT Last Supper
120
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Posted - 2013.01.16 14:20:00 -
[409] - Quote
MrDiao wrote:Turgesson wrote:with returned plexes in LOW SEC. We can deal with drop rates, types of loot, ways to gain keys/unlocking the gates full time, variations in the respawn timers, etc..after they are returned and work on them until we are both satisfied. . The answer should be "No". Exploration system should do what it supposed to do, if you want to encourage low-sec people's activities, introduce another idea called "low-sec static deadspace to encourage low-sec pvp", not by abusing the exploration complex system, especially for what aims at helping the newbies to start the game.
So instead of putting these newbies into a potentially exciting low sec pve scenario where they could meet people who can teach them things when they have the right attitude they should be put in direct competition with the lifetime carebear explorers and just play race to the loot in high sec where they can't take any preemptive aggressive action?
Don't think for a minute just because someone is a newbie that they couldn't smoke a 4yr old carebear in a low sec static. Let's not make believe moving these sites to high sec exploration did anything for newbs....it actually hurt the truly new players worse than us. |
Toterra
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
55
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Posted - 2013.01.16 20:34:00 -
[410] - Quote
Looking through the CSM minutes from December.... I can't find any mention of this. Anyone else?
(I could miss it though as it it over one hundred pages of text!) |
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Etuura Zellis
The Tuskers
27
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Posted - 2013.01.16 20:52:00 -
[411] - Quote
Did a keyword search and found nothing, perhaps it was deemed NDA? Could've swore Hans had said he brought it up. |
Sugar Kyle
The humbleless Crew Capital Punishment.
202
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Posted - 2013.01.16 21:00:00 -
[412] - Quote
He said he chased Devs and talked to them. It was not part of the scheduled events which is what the notes are. I'm sure that there were plenty of side discussions for various smaller topics.
When the patch notes came out and the winter summit topics were put up there was no place for us to request more information on this or a review. The Summit is rather time constricted and the topic did not have a time slot for it.
Tilde soaked words from something kinda like a pirate. |
Schmata Bastanold
Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo
548
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Posted - 2013.01.16 21:10:00 -
[413] - Quote
Quote:Hans took a moment to remind the team that the removal of the DED Level 1 and 2 static complexes in low-sec was a huge loss for the PvP community, and said this may have the potential to bring back some of these fights via increased belt traffic.
Bolded "this" being Tags4Sec which were discussed atm. Funny thing: nobody said a word in response to Hans' remark. I am not my skills but... http://eveboard.com/pilot/Schmata_Bastanold |
Kane Rizzel
NovaKane Incorporated You've got RED on you
62
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Posted - 2013.01.16 23:53:00 -
[414] - Quote
INCREASED BELT TRAFFIC?
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA...
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
A Pirate's Perspective Official EVE Online Fan Site |
Turgesson
Five-0
27
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Posted - 2013.01.17 01:11:00 -
[415] - Quote
Maybe next time when Hans brings up a topic it'll get more attention than a confused look around the room...
After reading the beginning of the minutes something just doesn't make any sense. If you have a feature that caters to all 3 tiers of the layered model for customer experience why in the world would you remove it? I honestly don't think the people who made this decision understand anything about it and thought adding more sites to scan down in high sec would capture more short term customers while at the same time underestimating the amount of long term loyal customers who enjoy this feature.
I'd write more on the subject but my gcc timer is up and I'm allowed out of the penalty box...here venture venture.
(I was going to step it up and start smartbombing all the afk retrievers around but why help the overmining problem by default. Leave those alone.) |
Michael Harari
The Hatchery Team Liquid
476
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Posted - 2013.01.17 11:31:00 -
[416] - Quote
If hans is still following the thread, could you tell us what went on? |
Toterra
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
55
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Posted - 2013.01.17 18:06:00 -
[417] - Quote
CCP Goliath wrote:Guys I appreciate you're really frustrated, but making the thread even more hostile than it already is isn't going to attract the developer attention you're looking for. Reading through this thread I am amazed at how respectful it is. There are no threats, no raging, just a persistent (mostly) polite reinforcement that removing these sites destroys an emergent gameplay mechanic enjoyed by low-sec players. Your post above, however, is (aside from some trolls) probably the single most hostile post in this entire thread! Yes we are trying to attract developer attention in the very forum that was setup to discuss features and ideas. Even though we have mostly been ignored we have continued to politely push this topic because it is important to us.
Please CCP, engage with your community and don't talk down to us.
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Minmatar Citizen160812
The LGBT Last Supper
123
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Posted - 2013.01.18 00:21:00 -
[418] - Quote
Would sending a few shapely ladies with loose morals up to Iceland for a cake and blumpkin party be nice enough to get these back? If it's a lady in charge maybe I can come up and give some good sloppy head?...I'll bet Hans didn't try THAT!
Screw developer attention at this point I want to speak with the Unifex person at the top of the heap...these underlings move too slow and are slowly ruining your product. |
Michael Harari
The Hatchery Team Liquid
476
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Posted - 2013.01.18 11:05:00 -
[419] - Quote
Goliath, the reason people are getting mad is because I made this thread literally right after patch notes came out, which was the first time we were told about this. This change wasnt on SISI, wasnt announced earlier. (as a side note, why would any change go live without testing?)
It took nearly THREE WEEKS (18 days) for a dev (you) to come in and say "oh yeah, we have seen this thread"
It took over FIVE WEEKS for a dev (Fozzie) to come in an actually explain something, and fozzie wasnt even involved in this change!
This is barely even about the 2/10 plexes anymore, but more about a perceived lack of CCP response. We STILL havent heard from the dev who made this decision, and its been 2 months. |
Vincent R'lyeh
Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo
106
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Posted - 2013.01.18 12:58:00 -
[420] - Quote
Who with leet artistic skills wants to whip up a nice 'Bring back the 2/10's in Low-Sec' A4 poster which can be scattered liberally around the Veto London Meet on 9th Feb? |
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