CCP says all sorts of things. I can't even fly a carrier (on any 'toon) and I would probably quit the game if they made a serious move in that direction.

It's just that stupid a move.

PvE pays, PvP costs. It's the way the game is written for all sorts of reasons. Top-end PvE content needs to be available for top end rewards, and top-end ships need to be the best for accessing that content.

Making PvE content available that requires big ships and pays very well is the best way to get people to put more of them at risk.

CCP says all sorts of things.

The people that design and make the game state that they want to take the game in a certain direction. You can't brush that off they are literally in charge of where the game goes.

It's not a whine, it's your future and I haven't talked about any ISK faucet so I don't know where you got that notion.

Edit: also as I have said in previous posts and nobody has had the guts to reply it, bringing in line hi sec with its risk means either removing hi sec or nerf hi sec by 1000%+. Because there's NO WAY to nerf a "safe" place enough to make an unsafe people more enticing.
You earn 5M per hour in hi sec doing L4 missions (a 400% nerf)? Still people won't find doing null sec content "worth it because in hi sec it's less ISK but safe".

Yes, and as I said, if they make a change that obviously stupid I'll quit even though it doesn't effect me directly.

People are complaining that nullsec rewards are too low, so they are talking about lowering them further? That doesn't even make sense in bizarro world.

Buzzy Warstl said "If that isn't enough for you, if you can't raise your rewards well past highsec levels using capital ships in their intended environment, the problem might not be with the game."
La Nariz said "So now we change to carrier ratting. Yeah CCP doesn't want that its been said in a dev blog before."

Now La Nariz Says "Yeah no one is talking about lowering nullsec rewards I have no idea how you thought of that. "


I may be a mere pubbie, but I do have an attention span of more than a page. Do try to stay consistent.

There is a big difference between us saying something and CCP saying something. None of us have argued for a nullsec reward nerf. That attention span needs a little work.

I disagree that it is impossible to nerf industry in highsec so that it is not capable of being perfect while nullsec industry can be made perfect with work will fix the disparity. The other good ideas like making it so T2 production cannot be done in empire are decent as well. We're in agreement that the intention of the nerfs/buffs will not make anyone move and that's good because that is not the intention.

I disagree that it is impossible to nerf industry in highsec so that it is not capable of being perfect while nullsec industry can be made perfect with work will fix the disparity.

The other good ideas like making it so T2 production cannot be done in empire are decent as well.

We're in agreement that the intention of the nerfs/buffs will not make anyone move and that's good because that is not the intention.

If you are merely the messenger for CCP's message you are still saying it.

You might not like it (I know I wouldn't were I in your shoes), but it's where I would have gotten the idea that someone was talking about it.

Reading for comprehension, you might try it some time.

Low sec would quickly replace high sec, most T2 production with good revenue is small sized and a blockade runner is enough to make a number of T2 mods at a time. WHs after low sec and before null sec.

At this point you'd be forced to demand T2 to become exclusive to "pure" null sec but then, the "center-periphery" EvE economy model will short circuit, as the periphery now is the center, and the center is a.... non center any more.

1. How? Even using the currently worst available type of station refining %, hi sec will still be efficient enough to blow null sec (and low sec even more) out of the water.

2. Low sec would quickly replace high sec, most T2 production with good revenue is small sized and a blockade runner is enough to make a number of T2 mods at a time. WHs after low sec and before null sec.

At this point you'd be forced to demand T2 to become exclusive to "pure" null sec but then, the "center-periphery" EvE economy model will short circuit, as the periphery now is the center, and the center is a.... non center any more.

3. Yes but please explain me, why this intentions change? For years it used to be "let's push people out of hi sec because [reason]" and now it's been changed.

Like npc nullsec or lowsec, where most invasions actually base from, even ones between neighboring established sov holders.

Like npc nullsec or lowsec, where most invasions actually base from, even ones between neighboring established sov holders.

There's a vast difference between a staging area and a resource collection area, and if what you are saying is true from a resource collection standpoint then highsec is obviously fairly balanced with NPC null and lowsec, so no problem.

This is not true and a red herring.

Green herring. You obviously don't go ratting in your staging system.

In before someone gets killed belt ratting in VFK in a carrier.

I've already covered the biggest reason why highsec can't be nerfed, but since this thread is getting longer and longer and the same tired non-arguments are being trotted out over and over again I'll repeat it:

There needs to be an aura of exclusivity to nullsec to keep things lively there. Not everyone can be allowed to play in sovereign nullsec.

The people who can't (or don't want to) currently play in sovereign nullsec need a place where they can play the game at all.

This means a place with effectively unlimited content (including industry) so it can hold all the players not currently in nullsec alliances (as well as however many nullsec alts as people care to make and play there).

This content has to provide some level of reward for players at any level of experience, which means that for players with both elite player and character skills it will provide significant rewards. The only way to prevent that is to literally kick players out if they are too good.

As such, I propose something that *could* be an effective nerf to highsec:

If it doesn't spawn or can't be built in in highsec it is contraband there.

There, no more deadspace fit pirate faction battleships blasting through L4 missions as fast as the players can pull them, nerf accomplished.

This is a slippery slope argument, which is a logical fallacy. Forcing t2 production into lowsec does not automatically mean everyone will start crying for t2 production to be pushed into nullsec.

And this is a "I can't read" argument, because I did not say AT ALL about forcing T2 production into lowsec. Just that low sec would become a natural "next best" location to do T2 production unless restrictions would only make null sec the place for T2 production.

It really isn't there is almost no risk in highsec yet highsec makes far more isk/hr than lowsec and nullsec when it comes to industry. You try to ignore this fact but please continue going on about blues and goonspiracy. I have stock in tinfoil producing companies, buy more tinfoil.

You pro-status quo people are repeating the same already demolished arguments I'm going to make a gigantic list of all the counters to these things so we can just regurgitate a copy-paste to anyone who spews the same already handled argument.

People asserting things doesn't necessarily make it true.

The profits in empire aren't that great from industry. Many items sell at a loss at major hubs.

Just because you keep saying it doesn't make it true, try making cogent arguments against our points instead of going "nuh uh."