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ISD Ezwal ISD Community Communications Liaisons 230	Posted - 2013.04.25 22:35:00 - [1951] - Quote I have removed some non constructive posts. 3. Ranting is prohibited. A rant is a post that is often filled with angry and counterproductive comments. A free exchange of ideas is essential to building a strong sense of community and is helpful in development of the game and community. Rants are disruptive, and incite flaming and trolling. Please post your thoughts in a concise and clear manner while avoiding going off on rambling tangents. 30. Abuse of CCP employees and ISD volunteers is prohibited. CCP operate a zero tolerance policy on abuse of CCP employees and ISD volunteers. This includes but is not limited to personal attacks, trolling, GÇ£outingGÇ¥ of CCP employee or ISD volunteer player identities, and the use of any former player identities when referring to the aforementioned parties. Our forums are designed to be a place where players and developers can exchange ideas in a polite and friendly manner for the betterment of EVE Online. Players who attack or abuse employees of CCP, or ISD volunteers, will be permanently banned from the EVE Online forums across all their accounts with no recourse, and may also be subject to action against their game accounts. ISD Ezwal Lieutenant Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department

Provence Tristram Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 44	Posted - 2013.04.25 22:57:00 - [1952] - Quote ISD Ezwal wrote: Our forums are designed to be a place where players and developers can exchange ideas in a polite and friendly manner for the betterment of EVE Online. Players who attack or abuse employees of CCP, or ISD volunteers, will be permanently banned from the EVE Online forums across all their accounts with no recourse, and may also be subject to action against their game accounts. If it is the desire for things to remain constructive, you might want to summon CCP Rise back in here to answer the rather massive wave of hostility which he unleashed. A lot of us are of the fairly general mindset that a system that has been in place for almost a decade has suddenly and unnecessarily been overturned with very little explanation other than 'we are changing this, not so much because change is needed, but because any change is better than none at all.' Honestly, I take a completely different tack: if it ain't broke (and it wasn't), don't fix it. To be even more succinct: 1) Why are racial differences being eroded at an alarming rate? 2) Why is it necessary to have heavy drone/neut ships in multiple races? Why is there a need to basically 'clone' ships multiple times? Why can people who want to sail 'that flavor' not continue to sail the Domi? 3) For people who go lasers, what is the Amarr PvE BS now? Is the 'entry level' ship now the 250-300 million ISK Abaddon? The Armageddon was an easy, approachable boat for both PvE (it wasn't the best in this arena, but it could and did work) and PvP. 4) Is there any possibility that these decisions could be reversed or altered? Is there any possibility that some of these ships could be maintained in their current form as a 'Class B' version? If not, why? The coding is already present in the game, and last time I checked, the Armageddon, at least, wasn't OP anywhere. 5) If there isn't any possibility of alterations in these decisions, why approach the community for 'feedback' at all? Is pretending that we have a say better than admitting we don't?
Meduza13 Silver Octopus Infernal Octopus 24	Posted - 2013.04.25 23:01:00 - [1953] - Quote ISD Ezwal wrote: I have removed some non constructive posts. 3. Ranting is prohibited. A rant is a post that is often filled with angry and counterproductive comments. A free exchange of ideas is essential to building a strong sense of community and is helpful in development of the game and community. Rants are disruptive, and incite flaming and trolling. Please post your thoughts in a concise and clear manner while avoiding going off on rambling tangents. 30. Abuse of CCP employees and ISD volunteers is prohibited. CCP operate a zero tolerance policy on abuse of CCP employees and ISD volunteers. This includes but is not limited to personal attacks, trolling, GÇ£outingGÇ¥ of CCP employee or ISD volunteer player identities, and the use of any former player identities when referring to the aforementioned parties. Our forums are designed to be a place where players and developers can exchange ideas in a polite and friendly manner for the betterment of EVE Online. Players who attack or abuse employees of CCP, or ISD volunteers, will be permanently banned from the EVE Online forums across all their accounts with no recourse, and may also be subject to action against their game accounts. So you should also remove many posts of CCP Rise as non-constructive, I would say they are destructive. And by saying this Im trying to be 100% constructive. And dont be surprised that people getting angry, when they are told no one cares do they like changes or not.
Little Dragon Khamez Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition 121	Posted - 2013.04.25 23:17:00 - [1954] - Quote ISD Ezwal wrote: I have removed some non constructive posts. 3. Ranting is prohibited. A rant is a post that is often filled with angry and counterproductive comments. A free exchange of ideas is essential to building a strong sense of community and is helpful in development of the game and community. Rants are disruptive, and incite flaming and trolling. Please post your thoughts in a concise and clear manner while avoiding going off on rambling tangents. 30. Abuse of CCP employees and ISD volunteers is prohibited. CCP operate a zero tolerance policy on abuse of CCP employees and ISD volunteers. This includes but is not limited to personal attacks, trolling, GÇ£outingGÇ¥ of CCP employee or ISD volunteer player identities, and the use of any former player identities when referring to the aforementioned parties. Our forums are designed to be a place where players and developers can exchange ideas in a polite and friendly manner for the betterment of EVE Online. Players who attack or abuse employees of CCP, or ISD volunteers, will be permanently banned from the EVE Online forums across all their accounts with no recourse, and may also be subject to action against their game accounts. Good of you to show up, unfortunately your presence is not welcome. The personal attacks and rants are wholly justified as the direct result of CCP fozzie and rise's inability to participate in threads that they started. Why start a thread detailing changes then ask for feedback prior to ignoring it. It's not just this thread either have a look at the gallente, caldari, minmatar and resist bonus threads. There's plenty of justified hate there for you to clean up too. As a fee paying customer with two accounts I feel really valued and respected right now... not! The devs should get it by now, they reap what they sow, and that might be unemployment the way things are going.
Tonto Auri Vhero' Multipurpose Corp 105	Posted - 2013.04.25 23:24:00 - [1955] - Quote ISD Ezwal wrote: I have removed some non constructive posts. Thank you for your attention, I'll go over thread now and repost each constructive message you deleted. Thankfully, we have an independent, non-biased forum archive.
Avald Midular Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 28	Posted - 2013.04.25 23:29:00 - [1956] - Quote Provence Tristram wrote: ISD Ezwal wrote: Our forums are designed to be a place where players and developers can exchange ideas in a polite and friendly manner for the betterment of EVE Online. Players who attack or abuse employees of CCP, or ISD volunteers, will be permanently banned from the EVE Online forums across all their accounts with no recourse, and may also be subject to action against their game accounts. If it is the desire for things to remain constructive, you might want to summon CCP Rise back in here to answer the rather massive wave of hostility which he unleashed. A lot of us are of the fairly general mindset that a system that has been in place for almost a decade has suddenly and unnecessarily been overturned with very little explanation other than 'we are changing this, not so much because change is needed, but because any change is better than none at all.' Honestly, I take a completely different tack: if it ain't broke (and it wasn't), don't fix it. To be even more succinct: 1) Why are racial differences being eroded at an alarming rate? 2) Why is it necessary to have heavy drone/neut ships in multiple races? Why is there a need to basically 'clone' ships multiple times? Why can people who want to sail 'that flavor' not continue to sail the Domi? It may have been the goal of Odyssey to remove hybrid boats, but it's introduced a woeful new issue: the hybridization of the races. 3) For people who go lasers, what is the Amarr PvE BS now? Is the 'entry level' ship now the 250-300 million ISK Abaddon? The Armageddon was an easy, approachable boat for both PvE (it wasn't the best in this arena, but it could and did work) and PvP. 4) Is there any possibility that these decisions could be reversed or altered? Is there any possibility that some of these ships could be maintained in their current form as a 'Class B' version? If not, why? The coding is already present in the game, and last time I checked, the Armageddon, at least, wasn't OP anywhere. 5) If there isn't any possibility of alterations in these decisions, why approach the community for 'feedback' at all? Is pretending that we have a say better than admitting we don't? +1, well said. Modifying #3, what is the Amarr PvE BS now regardless of weapon choice? Drones make horrible PvE ships, especially entry level due to skills, and the neuting bonus is useless so Geddon is out. Abaddon and Apoc chew through cap even with Scorch about halfway through any Lvl 4 unless you severely gimp the fit by fitting multiple boosters/rechargers (the Apoc used to be tolerable with the cap bonus but that only hid how broken lasers are). All 3 ships suffer in PvE from having to buffer tank which is impossible for Lvl 4's. Yay, another PG module to fit an armor rep in addition to the one required to fit weapons that no other race requires. CCP Rise, it's telling that the OP only received 20 "likes" and yet there's 96 pages of solid criticism and suggestions on how to modify the fittings that you've largely ignored or only given token tweaks to (yes I'm including the Large Energy Weapon thread, it's not even close to being enough which we'll see on SISI).
Theia Matova Dominance Theory 25	Posted - 2013.04.25 23:31:00 - [1957] - Quote Guys I seriously understand why you are angry but unconstructive mayhem does not help anyone. Don't forget that CCP has working hours and they are not working today anymore. There is lot of input outside iceland work hours and you cannot expect them to reply over the night as well. CCP Rise did message the thread today. Yes I am not happy either but before raging at least wait for tomorrow that he has chance to even read the feedback that he has got so far. Please try to be more constructive and don't mock others nor CCP employees. Yes I am unhappy too but if they do not change things all we can do is to either change play style or stop playing. Making more rage mails don't help anyone in filtering the messages.
Provence Tristram Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 46	Posted - 2013.04.25 23:33:00 - [1958] - Quote Theia Matova wrote: Guys I seriously understand why you are angry but unconstructive mayhem does not help anyone. I have yet to see unconstructive mayhem. Sorry. Perhaps it only looks like unconstructive mayhem if you disagree with it.
Theia Matova Dominance Theory 27	Posted - 2013.04.25 23:36:00 - [1959] - Quote Provence Tristram wrote: Theia Matova wrote: Guys I seriously understand why you are angry but unconstructive mayhem does not help anyone. I have yet to see unconstructive mayhem. Sorry. Perhaps it only looks like unconstructive mayhem if you disagree with it. I wasn't necessarily referring to your last post. Some seem to really wait for blood and don't really even understand that they have work hours. Actually your last post was constructive. But not all of them were. Anyway I just hope everyone can wait for today when CCP actually have chance to reply the flood of messages.
Tonto Auri Vhero' Multipurpose Corp 108	Posted - 2013.04.25 23:40:00 - [1960] - Quote Avald Midular wrote: OP only received 20 "likes" Curious. Some thread statistics: The thread was posted over two weeks ago. (18 days to be precise) The thread has seen roughly 100 posts a day(!) There's over 40(!) participants, who have left 10 or more messages, out of ~400 authors in total. The average length of the message in thread is more than 1000 characters (even including (excluding) massive overquoting, this is rather big number!) Yet, the OP only received, like... all of 20 "likes". Out of 400 posters? Not counting viewers? How's that for statistics?

Provence Tristram Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 47	Posted - 2013.04.25 23:43:00 - [1961] - Quote Theia Matova wrote: Provence Tristram wrote: Theia Matova wrote: Guys I seriously understand why you are angry but unconstructive mayhem does not help anyone. I have yet to see unconstructive mayhem. Sorry. Perhaps it only looks like unconstructive mayhem if you disagree with it. I wasn't necessarily referring to your last post. Some seem to really wait for blood and don't really even understand that they have work hours. Actually your last post was constructive. But not all of them were. Anyway I just hope everyone can wait for today when CCP actually have chance to reply the flood of messages. People are angry. There is no denying that. But anger isn't unconstructive. In fact, I'd argue that it's the most constructive mood. Anger breeds a desire for rectification. Were people not supposed to be upset by these proposals? They do so much damage to so many of the established norms. To say that the proposed changes were heavy handed is like saying that the Titanic was a bathtub toy. The problem is really that we allowed this boulder to get rolling in the first place. Nobody batted an eye when the new destroyers were introduced. There was minor clamour when a few of the cruisers and battlecruisers were changed, but not enough people are actively sailing the ships that were altered to matter much. But with the BSes, it's something different. Now, CCP is attempting to overturn the most major ship class in the game. Some of the boats aren't being hurt that bad -- others are being rendered unrecognizable. We were told, initially, that this was going to be a 'pass to rebalance things' -- not a complete wipe of the system, starting fresh. Most of us aren't looking for 'fresh' at this point in our e-lives. This is an adult game; we're adults, and some of us are downright curmudgeonly ones at that. We're not looking to have some magician to come in here with ZING and BAZOW and BLAMMO and rip the carpet right under our feet (only to disappear moments after in a puff of smoke). The status quo worked. So, yeah, I am angry. But, again, anger doesn't mean a lack of being constructive.
Naso Aya EVE University Ivy League 22	Posted - 2013.04.26 00:18:00 - [1962] - Quote Provence Tristram wrote: The problem is really that we allowed this boulder to get rolling in the first place. Nobody batted an eye when the new destroyers were introduced. There was minor clamour when a few of the cruisers and battlecruisers were changed, but not enough people are actively sailing the ships that were altered to matter much. But with the BSes, it's something different. Now, CCP is attempting to overturn the most major ship class in the game. Some of the boats aren't being hurt that bad -- others are being rendered unrecognizable. We were told, initially, that this was going to be a 'pass to rebalance things' -- not a complete wipe of the system, starting fresh. And I feel even moreso with the Amarr ships. Looking at the Minmatar, CCP has stated that split weapons systems are all getting re-evaluated. No surprises. Caldari had minor tweaks, along with the missle re-balance, an emphasis on rebalance. The Gallente had the most change, but fundamentally it remains the same: a removal of split weapons systems, and now is simply a re-balance pass of the Hyperion, and the Mega. It took some backlash, but people by and large on the gallente forums are satisfied with the changes- and the ships remain intact. There's two major issues I have with the Amarr lineup, currently. 1) We have a split weapons system. The Armageddon. I feel like it's the old typhoon- it's trying to do too many things. It is, after the changes, THE most flexible weapons system. And it's Amarr. I don't think that's a good thing. We (or at least me) Amarr are small minded ants, we like our pretty lasers, and our armor bricks. Drones are okay, because we're kinda like drones too. But the old Typhoon could have gone just as easily in the exact same direction, and it would still be called the "mini baal" and have the same complaints. The Armageddon doesn't "feel" Amarr. I'm not saying drone bonuses aren't Amarr, or even Neut/Nos range...but the hull itself doesn't feel Amarr. The argument that "well it's a larger prophecy" misses out on the fact that the prophecy feels like a ton of bricks. Not so much, with the Armageddon, hell, it's losing a low-slot. 2) The Apoc feels out of place. It's not as good of a sniper as an Oracle, and it's not as good of a brawler as the Abaddon. It's a genuinely nice boat, but it doesn't have a SPOT except for PvE, in which case you're SOOL in either the Abaddon or the Apoc due to cap issues (the Apoc is 'better' but not enough to justify it over the Abaddon, imo). The Amarr "endurance boat" ends up being the Armageddon. It honestly feels like CCP is saying "welp, laser rebalance has to happen EVENTUALLY....right dev team? I'm sure you have room on your plate for one more project". I've said some of this before, but I hope maybe it's more succinct now? Clearer? It's not that the new Armageddon is bad, it's that it'd fit more in the Minmatar lineup besides the fact that minmatar don't have a "drone leadup branch" which is a new development. I get we're trying to push the Amarr in a new direction, but CCP Rise got the short stick having to deal with these changes.
Theia Matova Dominance Theory 27	Posted - 2013.04.26 00:28:00 - [1963] - Quote I can understand hate for drones but amarr need damage dynamic weapon system to have serious stand in pvp and also in PVE. I do not favor drones, in fact I had rather seen old khanid type missile hull rather. Lasers are sadly broken concept that won't work alone unless they figure out damage module that modifies laser damage to make also kinetic / explosive. And I do agree with many that geddon was not the best hull choice but the truth is that if it had been abaddon or apocalypse someone else had whined. What CCP should do is to separate the geddon changes to another hull. To not to take away anything old away and rather introduce new that way. I am still looking forward for the new geddon even I am not very happy how it turned out to be. I liked the new prophecy but well I have different standing point to drones that most amarr flyers. I am cross trained to many weapon systems after all.
Regolis Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 41	Posted - 2013.04.26 00:28:00 - [1964] - Quote Well .. if it was meant to be a larger Prophecy it should have used the Abaddon hull .. but I don't want to get into that argument again. I don't understand why they don't just introduce it as a T1 Khanid hull using the Abaddon and be done with it. Omen -> Armageddon Prophecy -> Abaddon I mean doesn't the Prophecy have the resist bonus with the drone bonus?
Naso Aya EVE University Ivy League 22	Posted - 2013.04.26 00:32:00 - [1965] - Quote Regolis wrote: Well .. if it was meant to be a larger Prophecy it should have used the Abaddon hull .. but I don't want to get into that argument again. I don't understand why they don't just introduce it as a T1 Khanid hull using the Abaddon and be done with it. Omen -> Armageddon Prophecy -> Abaddon I mean doesn't the Prophecy have the resist bonus with the drone bonus? Also, why DOESN'T the Harbinger have a cousin?
Theia Matova Dominance Theory 27	Posted - 2013.04.26 00:46:00 - [1966] - Quote Naso Aya wrote: Regolis wrote: Well .. if it was meant to be a larger Prophecy it should have used the Abaddon hull .. but I don't want to get into that argument again. I don't understand why they don't just introduce it as a T1 Khanid hull using the Abaddon and be done with it. Omen -> Armageddon Prophecy -> Abaddon I mean doesn't the Prophecy have the resist bonus with the drone bonus? Also, why DOESN'T the Harbinger have a cousin? Erhm I feel that apoc kinda is, since harpy has always been full laser boat. But thats just my feeling :p

ISD Ezwal ISD Community Communications Liaisons 231	Posted - 2013.04.26 00:56:00 - [1967] - Quote Rest assured that this thread is being watched by the relevant Devs. Also, I have removed some rule breaking posts. 11. Discussion of forum moderation is prohibited. The discussion of EVE Online forum moderation actions generally leads to flaming, trolling and baiting of our ISD CCL moderators. As such, this type of discussion is strictly prohibited under the forum rules. If you have questions regarding the actions of a moderator, please file a petition under the Community & Forums Category. ISD Ezwal Lieutenant Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department

Provence Tristram Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 48	Posted - 2013.04.26 01:03:00 - [1968] - Quote Regolis wrote: Well .. if it was meant to be a larger Prophecy it should have used the Abaddon hull .. but I don't want to get into that argument again. I don't understand why they don't just introduce it as a T1 Khanid hull using the Abaddon and be done with it. Omen -> Armageddon Prophecy -> Abaddon I mean doesn't the Prophecy have the resist bonus with the drone bonus? Agreed. The Armageddon is the clear successor to the Omen. It's nonsense to turn it into this drone hive.
Naso Aya EVE University Ivy League 22	Posted - 2013.04.26 01:05:00 - [1969] - Quote Provence Tristram wrote: Regolis wrote: Well .. if it was meant to be a larger Prophecy it should have used the Abaddon hull .. but I don't want to get into that argument again. I don't understand why they don't just introduce it as a T1 Khanid hull using the Abaddon and be done with it. Omen -> Armageddon Prophecy -> Abaddon I mean doesn't the Prophecy have the resist bonus with the drone bonus? Agreed. The Armageddon is the clear successor to the Omen. It's nonsense to turn it into this drone hive. And with the Abaddon obviously going up from a Maller, if we HAVE to have a drone boat, that leaves the Apoc.
Tasha Saisima State War Academy Caldari State 9	Posted - 2013.04.26 01:30:00 - [1970] - Quote It is pretty sad that a coalitions Abaddon fit is made up of 1400 arties, lol

Kenshi Hanshin Karl XII's Dragoner Apocalypse Now. 34	Posted - 2013.04.26 02:24:00 - [1971] - Quote ISD Ezwal wrote: I have removed some non constructive posts. 3. Ranting is prohibited. A rant is a post that is often filled with angry and counterproductive comments. A free exchange of ideas is essential to building a strong sense of community and is helpful in development of the game and community. Rants are disruptive, and incite flaming and trolling. Please post your thoughts in a concise and clear manner while avoiding going off on rambling tangents. 30. Abuse of CCP employees and ISD volunteers is prohibited. CCP operate a zero tolerance policy on abuse of CCP employees and ISD volunteers. This includes but is not limited to personal attacks, trolling, GÇ£outingGÇ¥ of CCP employee or ISD volunteer player identities, and the use of any former player identities when referring to the aforementioned parties. Our forums are designed to be a place where players and developers can exchange ideas in a polite and friendly manner for the betterment of EVE Online. Players who attack or abuse employees of CCP, or ISD volunteers, will be permanently banned from the EVE Online forums across all their accounts with no recourse, and may also be subject to action against their game accounts. Under point 30: What about no abusing PLAYERS or insulting us. My lawyer is standing by to make the point legally clear if need be. That said, it is easier to not write in a more angry tone if there is some actual mutual respect and communication. Talk to your employee about that. I request a courteous and professional response.
Provence Tristram Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 53	Posted - 2013.04.26 02:58:00 - [1972] - Quote Frankly, I think the saddest (but most telling) thing about this whole process was that the changes weren't 'opened for discussion' until less than eight weeks before the patch went live. Ergo, why even talk about it? Why even ask our opinion? We all know that it's too late to make changes. The most that could be done at this point would be to leave certain alterations out, and I'm sure that's not going to happen. I can't tell if this was a complete misgauging of the community's reactions (as in, they were expecting everyone to cheer and whoop and hoorah about this nonsense, and got it totally wrong), or they didn't care. Either way, the whole thing is downright flippant. CCP, us Amarr types are set in our ways. We don't like change. We particularly don't like change for the worse. You knew going into this that we were like that. Why inflict this on us?
Ruze Next Stage Initiative Trans-Stellar Industries 128	Posted - 2013.04.26 03:19:00 - [1973] - Quote Provence Tristram wrote: Frankly, I think the saddest (but most telling) thing about this whole process was that the changes weren't 'opened for discussion' until less than eight weeks before the patch went live. Ergo, why even talk about it? Why even ask our opinion? We all know that it's too late to make changes. The most that could be done at this point would be to leave certain alterations out, and I'm sure that's not going to happen. I can't tell if this was a complete misgauging of the community's reactions (as in, they were expecting everyone to cheer and whoop and hoorah about this nonsense, and got it totally wrong), or they didn't care. Either way, the whole thing is downright flippant. CCP, us Amarr types are set in our ways. We don't like change. We particularly don't like change for the worse. You knew going into this that we were like that. Why inflict this on us? Honestly, this is some of the better communication they've done. Sure, they aren't giving us any leeway because they're sticking to their guns and the decisions they've made (I have to commend them for that ... I hate people who sway to the whims of others too easily), and I personally feel that time will prove that Amarr are going to need another adjustment to make them work. But CCP has pretty much stated that this is their route, try it and and tell them what's wrong. We did, before it even hit duality. And they offered a beam change. It'll take more from us and them to get Amarr on par. But as i've said before, this wouldn't be the first time Amarr has lost a class of ships. Even if every one of these bs's fail in every way, we've still got more functioning and capable pvp ships than we've ever had before. Just have to take it in stride. I mean, it sucks, but I realized a long time ago that if I wanted to have final say, I'd start my own spaceship company. If you're driven to threaten others with harm or violence because of what they do in game, you can't separate fantasy from reality.-á That 'griefer/thief' is probably more sane than you are.-á How screwed up is that?
Regolis Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 42	Posted - 2013.04.26 03:21:00 - [1974] - Quote I did alot of comparative posting about weapons in the Large Energy Turret thread. It basically comes down to the Tachyon isn't part of the scaling. If you look at smaller weapons, we have no tachyon equivalent in the medium and small ranges. What I fear is that they plan to go back and rip the -10% cap per level off all the ships, homogenize the caps but leave our weapons at 3x rail costs. This problem isn't going away anytime soon guys. Now about the Battleship lines. Battleships were never directly inline with Battlecruisers since the BCs were added way later. The Battleships were in line with Cruisers. So we have this or should have this. Maller -> Abaddon Omen -> Armageddon There was never a direct correlation with the Apocalypse to anything else. If they want to "keep the lines" with Battlecruisers, I would suggest the following. Prophecy -> Abaddon Harbinger -> Armageddon Oracle -> Apocalypse (not sure exactly how that would work but I can play with the numbers for that one.) This would keep a direct line from the battlecruisers to the battleships, but this is all talk-talk they've already decided pretty much how it's going to be and short of nuclear devastation the best we can hope is for better cap or a better reduction in lasers costs.
Provence Tristram Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 54	Posted - 2013.04.26 03:21:00 - [1975] - Quote Ruze wrote: [quote=Provence Tristram]Just have to take it in stride. I mean, it sucks, but I realized a long time ago that if I wanted to have final say, I'd start my own spaceship company. I don't think we'll get the Armageddon back in any form, though. It's so drastic a change -- I just don't see it going back to anything near to what it is.
Asmodai Xodai Legio Geminatus Gentlemen's Agreement 60	Posted - 2013.04.26 04:35:00 - [1976] - Quote What's wrong with simply putting amarr down and trying out other races? It's what I'm doing now (just bought two caldari ships, and will be training for minmatar to try them as well). Vote with your choices. Don't wed yourself to amarr, even if you thought they were the coolest. I was born amarr too, but if the devs are hell-bent on punishing them, I'm not a sucker for punishment. Vote with your feet. Leave amarr in droves. That way the devs can either accept a 3 race game, or do something about it. I think that would be far more effective than trying to reason with these people.
Ruze Next Stage Initiative Trans-Stellar Industries 129	Posted - 2013.04.26 04:56:00 - [1977] - Quote Asmodai Xodai wrote: What's wrong with simply putting amarr down and trying out other races? It's what I'm doing now (just bought two caldari ships, and will be training for minmatar to try them as well). Vote with your choices. Don't wed yourself to amarr, even if you thought they were the coolest. I was born amarr too, but if the devs are hell-bent on punishing them, I'm not a sucker for punishment. Vote with your feet. Leave amarr in droves. That way the devs can either accept a 3 race game, or do something about it. I think that would be far more effective than trying to reason with these people. That's how I suggest others do it. Myself? I'm a stubborn die hard, who only flew battleships if a) I was running level 4's in my Paly, or b) I brought a geddon to be an cheap ass. Problem is, even with the changes, I'll still probably bring a geddon and just be more of an ass. I ain't gonna argue whether the ship will rip it up. I'm just arguing that I don't want it to change out of lasers. But considering the removal of laser use bonuses, my geddon can still suck at using lasers just as much as it sucked at using lasers before ... only now with less dps. Thank god for our battlecruisers. If you're driven to threaten others with harm or violence because of what they do in game, you can't separate fantasy from reality.-á That 'griefer/thief' is probably more sane than you are.-á How screwed up is that?
Mara Pahrdi The Order of Anoyia 332	Posted - 2013.04.26 05:45:00 - [1978] - Quote Asmodai Xodai wrote: What's wrong with simply putting amarr down and trying out other races? It's what I'm doing now (just bought two caldari ships, and will be training for minmatar to try them as well). Vote with your choices. Don't wed yourself to amarr, even if you thought they were the coolest. I was born amarr too, but if the devs are hell-bent on punishing them, I'm not a sucker for punishment. Vote with your feet. Leave amarr in droves. That way the devs can either accept a 3 race game, or do something about it. I think that would be far more effective than trying to reason with these people. I certainly will not stop flying Amarr. But I do have a character for doing laser stuff in Amarr battleships and I love flying the Geddon on this character. The Geddon as it is right now. Said character has zero missile skills, average drone skills and I have other characters that would do better at flying the new Geddon. I'll wait for Odyssey and see if the new Apoc starts looking like an attack battleship (what the Geddon does already). If it doesn't, and since said character is the only one on that account, I will consider unsubbing that account in the long run. Currently the account is subbed until spring 2014. Had this thread started a little earlier, I would actually have unsubbed and waited for Odyssey to hit. I'm sure some will think that performance is everything and looks do not matter. Personally, I consider looks part of the fun though. Remove insurance.
Regolis Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 43	Posted - 2013.04.26 05:54:00 - [1979] - Quote See post #468 in the Large Energy Turret Thread. My previous post listing the weapons was to show how Beam lasers of every class are virtually identical to rails except for tracking. The Tachyon is the odd man out. I'll come back to that. What I really want to address is whether or not CCP believes that a 50% tracking increase means 3x power usage. Because in the end that is what it comes down to. The Tachyon, if you read the table, is 1 step above the Megabeam and 425mm rail. So I'm going to take on the argument all the way around. Where is the Medium and Small tachyon weapons? I keep hearing "Lasers do more damage". Umm no .. not from that table I put up they don't. Better tracking, yes. Which may equate to better damage, but it's not a cut and dried damage modifier. Which if you've been paying attention, the equivalent railguns actually have a higher damage mod. So give me my medium and small Tachyons. Reduce beam power costs to double the equivalent rail and balance the Tachyon class weapons at 2.5 to 3x the rail cost. Once THAT is in testing we can give you a better idea on the cap costs. Because if your next endeavor is to strip the -10% cap per level off of all Amarr ships then we'll play this game 3-4 more times. You cannot homogenize capacitors on all the ships and leave 1 race with guns that use 3x of another race.
LuisWu I hope you were insured 16	Posted - 2013.04.26 07:26:00 - [1980] - Quote Asmodai Xodai wrote: ... I think that would be far more effective than trying to reason with these people... Its imposible to reason with this people they live in a world where you can eliminate a 50% cap bonus and solve it with a 10% reduction in cap use, also a world where a cap warfare ship that can-¦t fit 7 x meta 4 large neut + 2 meta 4 large cap booster + some (again) meta 4 buffer tank without 2 fitting modules its "a fun one" ship to fly, but its ok , because: CCP Rise wrote: amarr ship are in the best place it can be for Odyssey.



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