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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 5 post(s) |
Pattern Clarc
Aperture Harmonics
513
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Posted - 2013.05.11 00:24:00 -
[751] - Quote
3-4 slot shield tank + tackle = where the hell have you been all my life
<3 new Raven. Ex CSM member & Designer of the Tornado. Gallente - Pilot satisfaction |
Kenshi Hanshin
Karl XII's Dragoner Apocalypse Now.
86
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Posted - 2013.05.11 07:12:00 -
[752] - Quote
Gypsio III wrote:Hagika wrote:Gypsio III wrote:Hagika wrote:
Which is the problem, putting rigors on the raven will hurt its already weak tank.
How would you describe the Typhoon's tank? The math was done, it was only slightly lower than the ravens new tank. What separates the two is that the phoon has a battlecruiser sig? Surely that wouldnt play into how well the ship deals with incoming damage at all. I don't think sig is particularly important at these scales. Small and med weapons are already tracking both ships without any trouble. It matters somewhat for large ones, but I don't think it's a huge deal. As for tank itself. I don't think I saw that post. Did it compare EHP only? What about ASBs and RR? What were your fits?
Sig Radius does matter alot for damage application for missiles. What the h*ll do you think that explosion radius is compared to? |
Connall Tara
Conquering Darkness
98
|
Posted - 2013.05.11 16:22:00 -
[753] - Quote
Kenshi Hanshin wrote:
Sig Radius does matter alot for damage application for missiles. What the h*ll do you think that explosion radius is compared to?
oh its certainly important, but at battleship scale its "relatively" unimportant, once you consider that the only weapons which have trouble applying full damage to battleships are other battleship or capital weapon systems.
its important, but relatively unimportant at this stage ^^ Fly reckless cohost and all round bad pilot o7
Naomi Knight - "You must be CCP Rise alt , that would explain everything" |
Sal Landry
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
58
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Posted - 2013.05.12 13:40:00 -
[754] - Quote
Constance Skye wrote:Can you add more drone space to the Rokh. More bandwidth would be great. Considering that CCP just removed bandwidth from the single Caldari T1 hull that could use Heavies/Sentries, that's unlikely to happen. I just hope they don't **** the CNR when they get to navy battleships.
Edit: I forgot the Scorpion had 75 bw too, but who wants to fly scorpions anyway |
Gypsio III
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
720
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Posted - 2013.05.13 08:33:00 -
[755] - Quote
Connall Tara wrote:Kenshi Hanshin wrote:
Sig Radius does matter alot for damage application for missiles. What the h*ll do you think that explosion radius is compared to?
oh its certainly important, but at battleship scale its "relatively" unimportant, once you consider that the only weapons which have trouble applying full damage to battleships are other battleship or capital weapon systems. its important, but relatively unimportant at this stage ^^
Exactly this. As seen in this thread, it's not hugely important even for cruise, because the explosion radius of cruise is so much smaller than a typical BS signature. It matters more for torps and their 338 m radius. And capital weapons ofc, but while blap dreads are ofc a big thing, I don't think we should put to much weight on the ease of Raven/Phoon blapping.
In contrast, a "small" frigate sig will result in not only increased mitigation of damage from other frigate weapons, but also from larger ones. |
TZeer
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
15
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Posted - 2013.05.13 10:40:00 -
[756] - Quote
Cool with all these new changes CCP.
But have you put any thought at all into the scanning and probing mechanic for this game?
Entire Caldari range of battleships have range as bonus. But in reality that is a joke! Anything trying to fight at range are scanned down in 5 sec, and the entire range bonus is nothing but a cool number/stat on a paper.
Anyone home at CCP?
Helloooooooooo?
Thought not..... |
Jonas Sukarala
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
156
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Posted - 2013.05.13 10:45:00 -
[757] - Quote
TZeer wrote:Cool with all these new changes CCP.
But have you put any thought at all into the scanning and probing mechanic for this game?
Entire Caldari range of battleships have range as bonus. But in reality that is a joke! Anything trying to fight at range are scanned down in 5 sec, and the entire range bonus is nothing but a cool number/stat on a paper.
Anyone home at CCP?
Helloooooooooo?
Thought not.....
indeed although the Rokh is technically a brawler the range bonus makes sense on it. Would be nice if they made the scorpion more like its navy version maybe minus the resist bonus for a explosion velocity bonus. 'Tech3 ships need to be put down, like a rabid dog drooling everywhere in the house, they are out of line' CCP Ytterbium Nerf missile range into place..... where is the TD missile change?-á ,...projectiles should use capacitor. |
TZeer
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
15
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Posted - 2013.05.13 11:07:00 -
[758] - Quote
Would be cool if they actually fixed the scanning mechanic. It's been in a "derp" state since they introduced it in a new form 2-3? years ago.
For those who don't know or remember, it used to take around 23 seconds for a prober to scan down a spot. In a big fleet fight where you get lag, TIDI, and what not, 5 vs 23 seconds is not much. But for smaller gangs, and smaller engagements it opened up a another level of gameplay.
- Putting your ship on the grid, didn't mean you where scanned down and tackled before you had been able to realign.
- Smaller gangs had a way to fight much larger gangs. They couldn't engage them up in the face. But with smart positioning, you could engage lone targets that drifted of the main group. Not always it worked. You only had a limited time to play before the blob was inbound. But it was possible.
- Saw some clever use of the scorps way way back in time, in the opening part of the fight. Two groups engaged each other. At the same time one of them had a small group of scorps coming in at their max range, behind they main group. Just out of reach for the hostiles, but well within their ECM range. Can forget about that today, would have been scanned down in 5 sec.
But it's like talking to a wall.
|
lovatus
Universal Conquest Catastrophic Uprising
35
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Posted - 2013.05.14 05:08:00 -
[759] - Quote
not too sure about the new raven. changing a high for a med slot makes sense but on paper it looks like its between roles as it has lost a chunk of tank but its still not manoeuvrable to make up for it |
Naomi Knight
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
381
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Posted - 2013.05.15 20:19:00 -
[760] - Quote
bump |
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InZerobiq
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2013.05.16 03:41:00 -
[761] - Quote
Would it be possible to make the Scorpion an omni EWAR ship, that is, giving it bonuses to tracking disputers, sensor dampeners, and ECM. Not sure if that would be too OP but I'd imagine the ship would get used more if the pilot had more choices in EWAR. I'm not suggesting it should keep the 3 ECM bonuses it has now and add these, but give it a single bonus to each of the 3 EWAR.
Just a thought.... |
Bigg Gun
Flying Bags Inc. Bulgarian Space Federation
18
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Posted - 2013.05.16 05:11:00 -
[762] - Quote
I like it, although I don't see how somebody not shooting at you at all is worse than somebody shooting at you with less tracking, ah well. It will never be a ship that is all that effective in big fleets and now and at 200 mil it's gonna be better to use the falcon, faster locks and smaller target. At least it's a t1 insurable hull |
Thaddeus Magnificen
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2013.05.17 01:25:00 -
[763] - Quote
What I've never understood about Caldari ships is that even though they're all shield focused, they seem to be some of the highest mass, biggest signature and slowest ships in the game. Are the shield generating systems so much heavier than just adding armour or what? |
Naomi Knight
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
382
|
Posted - 2013.05.17 07:24:00 -
[764] - Quote
Thaddeus Magnificen wrote:What I've never understood about Caldari ships is that even though they're all shield focused, they seem to be some of the highest mass, biggest signature and slowest ships in the game. Are the shield generating systems so much heavier than just adding armour or what? nope cause winmatar is also shieldish ,but they are the fastest ,smallest and lightest ships basically ccp keep things like this to make caldari unusable in pvp, and argue that 5% more shield hp than winmatar balance it out somehow... full biased devs thats all it takes |
Dragonv2
unfair pleasure Elemental Tide
6
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Posted - 2013.05.17 07:57:00 -
[765] - Quote
Naomi Knight wrote:Thaddeus Magnificen wrote:What I've never understood about Caldari ships is that even though they're all shield focused, they seem to be some of the highest mass, biggest signature and slowest ships in the game. Are the shield generating systems so much heavier than just adding armour or what? nope cause winmatar is also shieldish ,but they are the fastest ,smallest and lightest ships basically ccp keep things like this to make caldari unusable in pvp, and argue that 5% more shield hp than winmatar balance it out somehow... full biased devs thats all it takes
I wish it weren't true but based of the current way the caldari ships are going, pretty certain there is a bias, admittedly caldari have some pretty good frigs right now though, maybe ccp just sucks at BS re balancing :P
as for why they are so slow, they could probably explain it for all the stabilizer systems that allow the caldari ships to fire on targets very far away, kinda like how a sniper rifle is much heavier and larger than a assault rifle |
lovatus
Universal Conquest Catastrophic Uprising
36
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Posted - 2013.05.17 08:03:00 -
[766] - Quote
speed issue is probably to differentiate the feel between caldari and minmatar, the idea being caldari are slower but stronger shielded and more focused while minmatar were faster and more varied. obviously its not completely worked out.
also I notice we dont have a really good reason to take a rokh over a naga, they could have turned the rokh into a decent mid range brawler but theyve left it mostly the same |
fuxinos
Acerbus Vindictum Training Wing Stealth Wear Inc.
0
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Posted - 2013.05.17 11:27:00 -
[767] - Quote
Any PVP pilot with brain would fly a Typhoon over a Raven aaaany day after these changes.
If its an attack battleship then get rid of this useless velocity bonus and replace it with a explosion radius bonus acompanied by a 7th launcher hardpoint and the needed PG/CPU for it.
That would set it apart from the Typhoon.
And no, it would not be OP considering the Typhoon has a 125m/bits drone bandwith in exchange and the raven has no utility highslot then.
Also the explosion radius just makes more sense for an attack ship |
Josilin du Guesclin
University of Caille Gallente Federation
58
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Posted - 2013.05.17 12:35:00 -
[768] - Quote
lovatus wrote:speed issue is probably to differentiate the feel between caldari and minmatar, the idea being caldari are slower but stronger shielded and more focused while minmatar were faster and more varied. obviously its not completely worked out.
also I notice we dont have a really good reason to take a rokh over a naga, they could have turned the rokh into a decent mid range brawler but theyve left it mostly the same Once upon a time Caldari ships were slow, but tend to be agile, but over time they've been made increasingly clumsy as well.
|
Naomi Knight
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
383
|
Posted - 2013.05.17 13:12:00 -
[769] - Quote
lovatus wrote:speed issue is probably to differentiate the feel between caldari and minmatar, the idea being caldari are slower but stronger shielded and more focused while minmatar were faster and more varied. obviously its not completely worked out.
also I notice we dont have a really good reason to take a rokh over a naga, they could have turned the rokh into a decent mid range brawler but theyve left it mostly the same
It wouldnt be bad if minmatar speedy/small/and paper and caldari slow+bulky+tanky,but i cant see where caldari is tankier at all. Minmatar ships has nearly the same shield hp as caldari but more armor, the extra hull hp is meaningless just compare them: raven: 7000(-500) / 5800(-841) / 6400(-241) tempest: 7000(+46) / 7300(+1089) / 6800(+259) typhoon: 6500(+289) / 6000(+531) / 6000(-211)
mael:8000 / 7500 / 7000 rokh:8500 / 7000 / 7500 not even 10%more shield hp... and after you put on some exterders which give the same hp for all race the advantage is even less then add in that the matar ship reduces incoming dmg better due to smaller sig/faster movement, and need more time to be locked and you end up with matar ships tanking better
Ofcourse the shield resistance bonused ships tank better but that is cause of the bonus ,where matar ship gets a dmg/rof bonus.
If ccp realy would wanted races to be balanced they would give caldari better base shield resists. |
Johnson Oramara
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
53
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Posted - 2013.05.17 14:20:00 -
[770] - Quote
Naomi Knight wrote:If ccp realy would wanted races to be balanced they would give caldari better base shield resists. If they did that every single amarr, gallente and minmatar pilot would be yelling for a nerf until ccp gave in. Or it would be done in a way that they reduce something in exchange making the outcome as zero or possibly even negative. |
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Kenshi Hanshin
Karl XII's Dragoner Apocalypse Now.
90
|
Posted - 2013.05.18 23:36:00 -
[771] - Quote
Johnson Oramara wrote:Naomi Knight wrote:If ccp realy would wanted races to be balanced they would give caldari better base shield resists. If they did that every single amarr, gallente and minmatar pilot would be yelling for a nerf until ccp gave in. Or it would be done in a way that they reduce something in exchange making the outcome as zero or possibly even negative.
Can't disagree with that remark... |
Sumthinburnin
Industrial Solutions Vae. Victis.
1
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Posted - 2013.05.20 19:14:00 -
[772] - Quote
All of these changes matter not if BS are still beaten by lesser vessels.
Strat cruisers **** BS
I think the best change you could make to the BS lines for ALL races, give them the functionality that the strat cruisers get. Allow us to build the BS that WE want.
Anything less than this, is really just a waist of time and energy. I am not saying nerf the cruiser, I am saying bring our BS up to par and give us the same choices they have.
You want an 8 slot rokh missile boat - u could do it You want a faster BS- u could do it ECM improvement- easy just pick the right parts
I don't see why this is not even on the list of things to do, its already in game its just a matter of including other ships. |
Hagika
LEGI0N
180
|
Posted - 2013.05.21 07:33:00 -
[773] - Quote
Sumthinburnin wrote:All of these changes matter not if BS are still beaten by lesser vessels.
Strat cruisers own BS
I think the best change you could make to the BS lines for ALL races, give them the functionality that the strat cruisers get. Allow us to build the BS that WE want.
Anything less than this, is really just a waist of time and energy. I am not saying nerf the cruiser, I am saying bring our BS up to par and give us the same choices they have.
You want an 8 slot rokh missile boat - u could do it You want a faster BS- u could do it ECM improvement- easy just pick the right parts
I don't see why this is not even on the list of things to do, its already in game its just a matter of including other ships.
T3 Battleship, yummy.. |
Hagika
LEGI0N
180
|
Posted - 2013.05.21 07:35:00 -
[774] - Quote
Sure many have noticed CCP found time to bork the CNR, and actually give the Fleet Phoon missile systems as well and of course made it better than the CNR, all the while nerfing its dps. |
Jitoru
The Confederation of Eves good Knights Destiny's Call
5
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Posted - 2013.05.21 07:54:00 -
[775] - Quote
Either the above... Modular building of battleships... or there could be just the Weapons being adjusted.
CCP could invent a new module, a slotitem, that makes several weaponslots out of one battleship weaponslots.
medium Weapon battery: Would make 2 Medium Size WEapon Slots out of one Battleship sized... only allowing medium weapons in it.
you could make a small weapon battery too. Using one Large Weapon Gun- or Missileslot they would make room for 3 small weapons.
By adding this items a Battleship could fit against smaller ships by sacrificing a little Large Weapon Damage for better Tracking of small Weapons, inventing the feeling of a real Battleship out of all the movies we all know.
Of course a serious closer look is needed for this to balance right.
Maybe we could give it a thought. |
TehCloud
Carnivore Company
44
|
Posted - 2013.05.21 08:13:00 -
[776] - Quote
Hagika wrote:Sure many have noticed CCP found time to bork the CNR, and actually give the Fleet Phoon missile systems as well and of course made it better than the CNR, all the while nerfing its dps.
So please tell me how the CNR got nerfed, since with the new CMs and it's new bonus it's doing more dps than before. It also has an additional Medslot, really got nerfed.
Please explain why you think it got nerfed. (7x1.25>8 is not a valid argument in this case) My Condor costs less than that module! |
Otto Schultzky
Steller Exiles Inc Carthage Empires
1
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Posted - 2013.05.22 00:59:00 -
[777] - Quote
Why is Rokh not getting a 25m drone bay increase?
That would put it inline with the rest of the former Teir 3 / LvL 3 Battleships and proposed Combat Battleships
There is absolutely no reason to train Large Hybrid weapons if you fly Caldari and if you do have large Hybrid weapons then you should have cross trained Gank-lante and Win-matar |
Grunnax Aurelius
luna Oscura Clandestina Armada The Nightingales of Hades
130
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Posted - 2013.05.22 01:19:00 -
[778] - Quote
Otto Schultzky wrote:Why is Rokh not getting a 25m drone bay increase?
That would put it inline with the rest of the former Teir 3 / LvL 3 Battleships and proposed Combat Battleships
There is absolutely no reason to train Large Hybrid weapons if you fly Caldari and if you do have large Hybrid weapons then you should have cross trained Gank-lante and Win-matar
First of All its Gay-lentte and Second of all is Minma-tard, get it right man, ok lets see your Megathron deal 1000DPS at an optimal of 12km with 0 tracking mods, oh look the megathron reaches 6750m sorry bud!!! Two Teir Carriers-áhttps://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=207604&find=unread |
Warde Guildencrantz
TunDraGon Drunk 'n' Disorderly
699
|
Posted - 2013.05.22 11:42:00 -
[779] - Quote
aaand the scorp still doesn't have the correct scanres on the test server, still only has 75 as opposed to the updated 110 |
Caitlyn Tufy
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Sanctuary Pact
299
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Posted - 2013.05.22 11:57:00 -
[780] - Quote
Otto Schultzky wrote:Why is Rokh not getting a 25m drone bay increase?
That would put it inline with the rest of the former Teir 3 / LvL 3 Battleships and proposed Combat Battleships
There is absolutely no reason to train Large Hybrid weapons if you fly Caldari and if you do have large Hybrid weapons then you should have cross trained Gank-lante and Win-matar
Rokh's problem isn't its power - it never was. Rokh's problem is that it's effectively a dead end as a shield hybrid battleship. Every following caldari tier (navy, pirate, T2) either uses missiles or a non-caldari weapon system (in the case of Nightmare). |
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