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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 20 post(s) |
Kyo Avanta
The Scope Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2013.04.09 14:21:00 -
[721] - Quote
Bouh Revetoile wrote:Red Teufel wrote:hyp is so bad ccp. drop the active rep for a falloff bonus or something. Yeah, turn the Hyperion into a minmatar ship, cool idea...
Yeah, its kind of like turning the Armageddon into a Gallente ship...... Oh wait. |
Roime
Shiva Furnace
2471
|
Posted - 2013.04.09 14:21:00 -
[722] - Quote
Guess the Domi and Mega changes are ok after all. Unnecessary, but whatever.
Hype doesn't work, but that would be easy to fix by actually finishing armor tanking 2.0
-á- All I really wanted was to build a castle among the stars - |
Sinzor Aumer
Atlas Research Group Aerodyne Collective
124
|
Posted - 2013.04.09 14:21:00 -
[723] - Quote
Marxzo Andoun wrote:Sinzor Aumer wrote:Dominix... Try EWAR. I've heard it helps. Because when we are sniping with the new drone range bonus, EWAR modules will be in range too right? I must have missed that EWAR range bonus... If you're at your sniping range, you dont need to worry of anything. Just watch your enemy burn. Or you can fit SeBo. You didnt need those mids anyway, right?
In fact I must admit that versatility is not completely gone. It reduced, and... shifted. From highs to mids. But my other point stands just right. Sentry drones are really strong now. And making a sentry-bonused ship means making overpowed ship. Which is bad. |
Grendell
Technologies Unlimited Superior Eve Engineering
602
|
Posted - 2013.04.09 14:27:00 -
[724] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:Hi again Gallente friends!
We've just had a meeting with the balance team to weigh all your feedback and go over our options for this ship line. We have come up with some new solutions which I think you will be happy about.
Look for an update with the new versions in the next day or two, we are going to spend some time tuning them so that we are less likely to have to make even more changes afterwards.
Thanks again for the input!
Could you be a bit less vague regarding what your intended changes are going to include. As it stands right now your initial proposal was less than stellar. So I'm basically looking to find out what you took from this thread exactly and what you are intending to correct. I'm not looking for slots and stats, just a goal and direction you intend to take.
|
Suicide Smith
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
2
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Posted - 2013.04.09 14:27:00 -
[725] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:Hi again Gallente friends!
We've just had a meeting with the balance team to weigh all your feedback and go over our options for this ship line. We have come up with some new solutions which I think you will be happy about.
Look for an update with the new versions in the next day or two, we are going to spend some time tuning them so that we are less likely to have to make even more changes afterwards.
Thanks again for the input! I like the fact that you are looking to address our concerns. That said, it would be nice if you gave us an idea as to what you have in mind. We don't need hard numbers of X more PG, Y more DPS, but a general idea..
We can give you the feedback now so you can then use that to work with.. rather than you making a proposal, then us giving you feedback, then you making a new one. I think it would speed up the process, and leave everyone with a better end result.
That said, if the worst case is I need to wait 2 days to find out the new proposed changes, so be it. The fact that they are getting reviewed is a step in the right direction.. |
Sinzor Aumer
Atlas Research Group Aerodyne Collective
125
|
Posted - 2013.04.09 14:27:00 -
[726] - Quote
Sentry Dominix doesnt need any help, it's fine. Heavy-drones Dominix need some help desperately. Just put drone MWD bonus on it, and call it a day. |
Burseg Sardaukar
Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance
267
|
Posted - 2013.04.09 14:28:00 -
[727] - Quote
Prometheus Exenthal wrote:Askulf Joringer wrote:As for your comment about only seeing a Domi once fit with guns since 2006, you are either lying or again going full ******. Please start linking me fits people use, outside of gank setups, that effectively utilize the large gun bonus on the Dominix The new drone bonus is not only better for PVE+PVP, but you aren't losing the turret hardpoints. So you can have your cake and eat it too.
When flying a Battleship for the last 5 years or so, I have exclusively used a blaster Dominix setup, to great success. On small occasions I rock a neut Domi, but 9/10 it's blaster fit.
It's usually rocking:
Electron Blaster Cannon II x 5 Solace RR x1 (spidertank w/mah boys)
Microwarp, web, disruptor, cap booster, and a sebo/eccm/damp depending on its utilization
4x 1600 plates, 2x eanm, 1x dc
3x trimarks Hey, as a dude that lives in lowsec, you should read my idea on how to "fix" it... in Blog format, complete with a spreadsheet! http://3xxxd.blogspot.com/2012/09/how-to-buff-lowsec.html |
Suicide Smith
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
2
|
Posted - 2013.04.09 14:29:00 -
[728] - Quote
Bouh Revetoile wrote:Red Teufel wrote:hyp is so bad ccp. drop the active rep for a falloff bonus or something. Yeah, turn the Hyperion into a minmatar ship, cool idea... Well it's a blaster boat.. so give it optimal range.. Not as good as the Rokh, but every little bit helps with Blasters. |
Dez Affinity
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
191
|
Posted - 2013.04.09 14:30:00 -
[729] - Quote
Burseg Sardaukar wrote:Prometheus Exenthal wrote:Askulf Joringer wrote:As for your comment about only seeing a Domi once fit with guns since 2006, you are either lying or again going full ******. Please start linking me fits people use, outside of gank setups, that effectively utilize the large gun bonus on the Dominix The new drone bonus is not only better for PVE+PVP, but you aren't losing the turret hardpoints. So you can have your cake and eat it too. When flying a Battleship for the last 5 years or so, I have exclusively used a blaster Dominix setup, to great success. On small occasions I rock a neut Domi, but 9/10 it's blaster fit. It's usually rocking: Electron Blaster Cannon II x 5 Solace RR x1 (spidertank w/mah boys) Microwarp, web, disruptor, cap booster, and a sebo/eccm/damp depending on its utilization 4x 1600 plates, 2x eanm, 1x dc 3x trimarks
|
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction Whores in space
81
|
Posted - 2013.04.09 14:31:00 -
[730] - Quote
Kyo Avanta wrote:Bouh Revetoile wrote:Red Teufel wrote:hyp is so bad ccp. drop the active rep for a falloff bonus or something. Yeah, turn the Hyperion into a minmatar ship, cool idea... Yeah, its kind of like turning the Armageddon into a Gallente ship...... Oh wait.
or kind of makign the tempest into an amarr tanking brwler.. ..... Oh wait!!! |
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Marxzo Andoun
EVE University Ivy League
3
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Posted - 2013.04.09 14:32:00 -
[731] - Quote
Sinzor Aumer wrote:Marxzo Andoun wrote:Sinzor Aumer wrote:Dominix... Try EWAR. I've heard it helps. Because when we are sniping with the new drone range bonus, EWAR modules will be in range too right? I must have missed that EWAR range bonus... If you're at your sniping range, you dont need to worry of anything. Just watch your enemy burn. Or you can fit SeBo. You didnt need those mids anyway, right? In fact I must admit that versatility is not completely gone. It reduced, and... shifted. From highs to mids. But my other point stands just right. Sentry drones are really strong now. And making a sentry-bonused ship means making overpowed ship. Which is bad.
It really depends on one's definition of versatile. To me, it means being able to fill different roles depending on the fit. This is where the idea of the unpredictable nature of the Domi came from.
Versatile to me does not mean being able to fit a SeBo at will (which is a good idea for a sniper by the way) as module switching is a standard among all Eve ships, and your opponent will still know exactly what role you are filling and what your strengths and weaknesses are.
The previously mentioned idea of allowing an increase in bandwidth per level, while perhaps radical, alleviates a lot of the concern people have with Gallente ships right now: racial identity, a niche role for the Domi, versatility (drones in themselves are a versatile weapon - damage types, utility drones, range variance) - and gives the Domi the defined role of capable droneboat that CCP is trying to accomplish. |
Sentamon
806
|
Posted - 2013.04.09 14:33:00 -
[732] - Quote
I'm digging the proposed Domi. ~ Professional Forum Alt -á~ |
Red Teufel
eHarmony Inc. Phobia.
220
|
Posted - 2013.04.09 14:43:00 -
[733] - Quote
I approve domi changes I approve Mega changes
hyp i hate it. |
Sinzor Aumer
Atlas Research Group Aerodyne Collective
125
|
Posted - 2013.04.09 14:44:00 -
[734] - Quote
Sentamon wrote:I'm digging the proposed Domi. Looks like I did as well. But heavy drones are still inferior. |
Prometheus Exenthal
mnemonic.
541
|
Posted - 2013.04.09 14:44:00 -
[735] - Quote
Burseg Sardaukar wrote:Prometheus Exenthal wrote:Askulf Joringer wrote:As for your comment about only seeing a Domi once fit with guns since 2006, you are either lying or again going full ******. Please start linking me fits people use, outside of gank setups, that effectively utilize the large gun bonus on the Dominix The new drone bonus is not only better for PVE+PVP, but you aren't losing the turret hardpoints. So you can have your cake and eat it too. When flying a Battleship for the last 5 years or so, I have exclusively used a blaster Dominix setup, to great success. On small occasions I rock a neut Domi, but 9/10 it's blaster fit. It's usually rocking: Electron Blaster Cannon II x 5 Solace RR x1 (spidertank w/mah boys) Microwarp, web, disruptor, cap booster, and a sebo/eccm/damp depending on its utilization 4x 1600 plates, 2x eanm, 1x dc 3x trimarks
So... you lost 100 turret dps for an additional 20k ehp on your setup, and better drone damage application. Why is this a bad thing again? -áwww.promsrage.com |
BayneNothos
United Electro-Magnetic Federation The Nightingales of Hades
8
|
Posted - 2013.04.09 14:44:00 -
[736] - Quote
Pinky Denmark wrote:CCP Rise wrote:Hi again Gallente friends!
We've just had a meeting with the balance team to weigh all your feedback and go over our options for this ship line. We have come up with some new solutions which I think you will be happy about.
Look for an update with the new versions in the next day or two, we are going to spend some time tuning them so that we are less likely to have to make even more changes afterwards.
Thanks again for the input! I really, really liked your first iteration of the Mega and Hype so I hope you're not mistaking "affectionate hysteria" with "possible gamebreaking"? Will be looking forward to see what you've come up with... And about the other threads you really should look at the scorpion and the Rokh and take a serious look at the attack battlecruisers again ;-)
This. They're pretty close to good, just a few minor tweaks and the 3 Gallente BS's should be pretty sweet. |
Orion Wolff
Fukushima Industries Spartan Alliance
2
|
Posted - 2013.04.09 14:50:00 -
[737] - Quote
I'm comfortable with the Domis changes. It can still field close to 1000 dps for my wspace shield fit and the change in bonuses make it a righteous sniper that can rep its sentries. I use a navy mega for a deep tank and probably won't use t1mega ever. But I really don't think it needed to be nerfed, based purely on how often it is used. But the Hyperion...
Active tanking is a problem. It's great if solo camping or missioning, but put that ship in a fleet and it looses its versatility. Yeah, if remote cap reps are on field, it simply needs less armor remote reps from logi, but most pilots would rather have a deep tank to protect against alpha volleys. 1800 hp/10 seconds doesn't protect against that. CCP keeps saying that active tanking will find its place - eventually - how many years are going to by in the process?
I've moved from missioning to wspace. I no longer need self repping. I'm native gallente, so I'm expected to brawl - I'm also expected to have a buffer tank so the logi can keep me alive. Active repping is just fail. |
Pelea Ming
Prostitutes Are Always Wlling
76
|
Posted - 2013.04.09 14:50:00 -
[738] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:Quote:Seems you have been answersign only this thread. Are you guys covering the other threads equaly? I've been watching the other threads as well, there just doesn't seem to be as much to comment on in the others. I'll go do a lap through them now to make sure I haven't missed anything big. (Yes, at this point I'm abit angry and that is going to be shown in my choice of words and phraseology) Of course, your keeping an eye on the other threads, and the amarr one is what, so blase you can't be bothered to post any responses to it? Despite that several of us have now specifically directed questions and such directly to you, asking for more elaboration on one thing or another, or even just what you might think about what we have to say? |
wallenbergaren
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
68
|
Posted - 2013.04.09 14:52:00 -
[739] - Quote
Suicide Smith wrote:Bouh Revetoile wrote:Red Teufel wrote:hyp is so bad ccp. drop the active rep for a falloff bonus or something. Yeah, turn the Hyperion into a minmatar ship, cool idea... Well it's a blaster boat.. so give it optimal range.. Not as good as the Rokh, but every little bit helps with Blasters.
Blasters are falloff weapons just like ACs, that's why all all the ranged bonused hybrid ammo is so **** for blasters. Aside from Null none of them give a falloff bonus, only optimal. |
The Bazzalisk
Acerbus Vindictum Stealth Wear Inc.
25
|
Posted - 2013.04.09 14:52:00 -
[740] - Quote
Andreus Ixiris wrote:To anyone suggesting that the Hyperion should lose hi-slots or turret hardpoints: no. It can't be done, currently, because art assets constain them from doing that. The Hyperion very, very clearly has eight turret hardpoints on the base model. Unless the ship was actively remodelled at the same time as the stats change, they can't get rid of guns or hardpoints.
The Myrmidon has 6 turret hardpoints on the model but they had no problem changing the fittings to 5. |
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Vivien Sureflight
Repo.
2
|
Posted - 2013.04.09 14:53:00 -
[741] - Quote
I really dislike what you're proposing for the Dominix. Its strength is in its versatility, and part of that versatility comes from being able to use blasters for more than just the laughs. As is, the Dominix occupies some of the highest potential DPS in the game, while also maintaining the ability to be fit in a variety of ways. I would much rather it stay the same than be turned into a tougher, slower, uglier Ishtar.
It's been previously stated that CCP wants to keep the T1 ships more "open" as far as roles are concerned, and leave the specialization to T2 ships. With that in mind, does it make sense to forcibly push a useful and versatile ship into the role of pure combat utility/sniping? If you want to snipe with sentries, Ishtars already do it better -- all this change is doing is making it a weaker ship in small encounters with the ability to hit some frigates with heavy drones. Who cares? That just means the ship takes less skill to fly. And I don't mean skill points; it would turn into, "apply tackle. Drop ogres. Sit there". That's already the role of the Hyperion, so I don't see a need to fill it again.
BOTTOM LINE: Leave the Domi completely untouched, unless you want to give it some more HP to bring it in line with the others.
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monkfish2345
D'reg The Methodical Alliance
62
|
Posted - 2013.04.09 14:55:00 -
[742] - Quote
Pelea Ming wrote:CCP Rise wrote:Quote:Seems you have been answersign only this thread. Are you guys covering the other threads equaly? I've been watching the other threads as well, there just doesn't seem to be as much to comment on in the others. I'll go do a lap through them now to make sure I haven't missed anything big. (Yes, at this point I'm abit angry and that is going to be shown in my choice of words and phraseology) Of course, your keeping an eye on the other threads, and the amarr one is what, so blase you can't be bothered to post any responses to it? Despite that several of us have now specifically directed questions and such directly to you, asking for more elaboration on one thing or another, or even just what you might think about what we have to say?
as much as i'm sure he'd love to just sit here and debate the merits of changes and suggestions all day i'm fairly sure his job is slightly more involved that just trawling the forums all day.
|
Roime
Shiva Furnace
2472
|
Posted - 2013.04.09 14:55:00 -
[743] - Quote
Why do people keep mentioning battleship sniping like it was actually something you can do in this game
-á- All I really wanted was to build a castle among the stars - |
Bouh Revetoile
TIPIAKS
270
|
Posted - 2013.04.09 14:56:00 -
[744] - Quote
Suicide Smith wrote:Bouh Revetoile wrote:Red Teufel wrote:hyp is so bad ccp. drop the active rep for a falloff bonus or something. Yeah, turn the Hyperion into a minmatar ship, cool idea... Well it's a blaster boat.. so give it optimal range.. Not as good as the Rokh, but every little bit helps with Blasters. Oh yeah, make it worse than the Rokh !
So many great ideas around there !
To me, gallente always have been pure firepower with high utility. Pure firepower mean blasters. High utility mean armor tank with fair amount of mid slots.
Unfortunately, people don't like this idea and prefer Amarr or Caldari ships. The problem with gallente ships is that they are not straightforward compared to amarr or caldari ships. With amarr/caldari ship, you know what your ship can do, it's clear, and that translate directly into eft stats. With gallente ships, that's not the case. Gallente ships share a lot more with minmatar ships than with amarr and caldari ones. Yet, the problem is less apparent with minmatar ships, because of arties in one hand, which make huge fleet afficionados happy, and speed/cap warfare/shield preference on the other hand which make small gang people happy.
Gallente are left with a weapon system shared with caldari (they are pretty fine with drones though, and the mild acceptance of the Dominix show it), and to top it off, the weapon system don't distinguish a lot from amarr weapon system. Hence, whatever you do, people will try to compare them to amarr or caldari ships, and because they understand amarr and caldari doctrine better, they will compare them in these doctrines point of view : static huge fleet fights. But this is a dead end. Gallente ships will forever be worse than caldari and amarr ship at being amarr or caldari ships.
And the last problem then arise : lots of people don't believe in battleship at small scale, hence completely reprove armor rep bonus for this ship. And for those people left, there is the competition with minmatar ships (and of course with amarr/caldari ships which can be used in small scale situation).
Hence, the competition is high, and the niche left are small. And IMO, the proposed changes were fairly good, but maybe too drastic to be accepted. The margin for modification is not that large : you need 7 or 8 highs for weapons, you need 6 or 7 lows for armor tank, and you need 4 or 5 mids for enough utility -- but considering the number of 4 mid slots BS, I think 5 is preferable. You also need those two hull to be different, one filling an attack role, and the other one a combat role (but still without turing it into a caldari/amarr ship).
That is the whole picture. |
Pelea Ming
Prostitutes Are Always Wlling
76
|
Posted - 2013.04.09 14:56:00 -
[745] - Quote
monkfish2345 wrote:Pelea Ming wrote:CCP Rise wrote:Quote:Seems you have been answersign only this thread. Are you guys covering the other threads equaly? I've been watching the other threads as well, there just doesn't seem to be as much to comment on in the others. I'll go do a lap through them now to make sure I haven't missed anything big. (Yes, at this point I'm abit angry and that is going to be shown in my choice of words and phraseology) Of course, your keeping an eye on the other threads, and the amarr one is what, so blase you can't be bothered to post any responses to it? Despite that several of us have now specifically directed questions and such directly to you, asking for more elaboration on one thing or another, or even just what you might think about what we have to say? as much as i'm sure he'd love to just sit here and debate the merits of changes and suggestions all day i'm fairly sure his job is slightly more involved that just trawling the forums all day. Ahh, yes, yet he had the time yesterday to post approx 3 times to both the Cald and Minnie threads, and approx 15 times to the Gallente one, yet has shown no attention to the amarr thread? |
Rukhsana Uxor
Legio Astorum
1
|
Posted - 2013.04.09 14:57:00 -
[746] - Quote
BayneNothos wrote: This. They're pretty close to good, just a few minor tweaks and the 3 Gallente BS's should be pretty sweet.
Good for what? Fleet fights? Atm gallent have no fleet BS. In massive pvp sentry domi bad, because of smarts and bombs. If slowcat have extrimely sets of sentry domi have only 3. And all gallent problem in their weapon. They NEED speed OR optimal\falloff to deal damage. Gallent's BS havnt both of this attributes. Problem not in slots (but 6 low for mega pretty odd).
CCP need to decide what BS will fleet ship and just give falloff or optimal bonus (optimal is better because caldari have their rail-platform with falloff) to mega or hyper instead of tracking bonus on mega or rep bonus on hyper. Mega need tracking bonus in small-scale pvp where u need tracking to get down crus-size. But in fleet pvp? For what tracking if im shooting other BS. About hyper... Well armor rep bonus totaly bad in fleet pvp and we all know why.
There is 3-rd option. Make drones be useful in fleet pvp (drones need some countermeasure for hard aoe attack). But its another thread. |
Burseg Sardaukar
Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance
267
|
Posted - 2013.04.09 14:58:00 -
[747] - Quote
Prometheus Exenthal wrote:Burseg Sardaukar wrote:Prometheus Exenthal wrote:Askulf Joringer wrote:As for your comment about only seeing a Domi once fit with guns since 2006, you are either lying or again going full ******. Please start linking me fits people use, outside of gank setups, that effectively utilize the large gun bonus on the Dominix The new drone bonus is not only better for PVE+PVP, but you aren't losing the turret hardpoints. So you can have your cake and eat it too. When flying a Battleship for the last 5 years or so, I have exclusively used a blaster Dominix setup, to great success. On small occasions I rock a neut Domi, but 9/10 it's blaster fit. It's usually rocking: Electron Blaster Cannon II x 5 Solace RR x1 (spidertank w/mah boys) Microwarp, web, disruptor, cap booster, and a sebo/eccm/damp depending on its utilization 4x 1600 plates, 2x eanm, 1x dc 3x trimarks So... you lost 100 turret dps for an additional 20k ehp on your setup, and better drone damage application. Why is this a bad thing again?
Because that extra turret DPS gives it the unique flair that would make a player possibly pick it over the Armageddon.
If CCP is doing this tiericide project for the reasons they claim (making every ship a viable choice) they will fail with the Dominix.
As I've been saying, the bonus change is a problem, but not as much as the Armageddon being the new top dog drone boat. It's like being presented with a choice between Myrm and Proph, but at least there the Myrm has more bandwidth... Hey, as a dude that lives in lowsec, you should read my idea on how to "fix" it... in Blog format, complete with a spreadsheet! http://3xxxd.blogspot.com/2012/09/how-to-buff-lowsec.html |
Rukhsana Uxor
Legio Astorum
1
|
Posted - 2013.04.09 15:00:00 -
[748] - Quote
doublepost. |
Bouh Revetoile
TIPIAKS
270
|
Posted - 2013.04.09 15:02:00 -
[749] - Quote
Burseg Sardaukar wrote:So... you lost 100 turret dps for an additional 20k ehp on your setup, and better drone damage application. Why is this a bad thing again?
Because that extra turret DPS gives it the unique flair that would make a player possibly pick it over the Armageddon.
If CCP is doing this tiericide project for the reasons they claim (making every ship a viable choice) they will fail with the Dominix.
As I've been saying, the bonus change is a problem, but not as much as the Armageddon being the new top dog drone boat. It's like being presented with a choice between Myrm and Proph, but at least there the Myrm has more bandwidth...[/quote] The ******* mid slot !! The Dominix still have one more fuckin' mid slot ! As does the Myrm over the Prophecy BTW... But the thing with the Prophecy is more related to the insane-and-probably-OP tank more than anything else. |
X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
1239
|
Posted - 2013.04.09 15:05:00 -
[750] - Quote
After sleeping on it: 1. Hey how about giving the Mega it's 8th high slot so that it can be the fleet ship we all want? 2. CCP is just screwed with the active repping Hyperion. So, do what you want with it. Give the 8th turret slot to the Mega, and keep this ship in its tiny little niche of "I active rep until I get nueted out or blobbed" so that legion boosting, drug addicts can have fun while playing station games. 3. Nerf the proposed Armageddon so it doesn't completely overlap the Dominix in 95% of realistic pvp scenarios. Otherwise it's fine. |
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