| Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 [7] 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 30 40 .. 44 :: one page |
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 27 post(s) |
Decarthado Aurgnet
Imperial Combat Engineers
Empire of Arcadia
2
   |
Posted - 2013.04.27 01:37:00 -
[181] - Quote
Gilbaron wrote:
barges are not defenseless
there are intel channels
there are bubbles at the gate
there are cyno jammers
there is instant intel from local chat
there are drag bubbles set up from all gates
there are home defence fleets of cheap and easy to skill T1 cruisers
there are carefully planed traps
there is so much more you can do to defend yourself
Barges are defenseless - five drones can't fend off a single PvP ship of any kind.
All those other things require tons of people camping gates to defend their own borders instead of doing things which are actually fun. |
EvilweaselSA
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
575
|
Posted - 2013.04.27 01:41:00 -
[182] - Quote
i must say i am really really really unhappy about having to rescan the 60k+ moons we have scanned
UUGH |
EvilweaselSA
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
575
|
Posted - 2013.04.27 01:42:00 -
[183] - Quote
Decarthado Aurgnet wrote:
I'd go into nullsec in a heartbeat and mine the ever loving hell out of the minerals down there except it's completely unsafe for an industrialist to get resources in space which is inherently insecure.
somehow we'll manage without the bedwetting contingent
nullsec isn't supposed to be automatically safe |
EvilweaselSA
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
575
|
Posted - 2013.04.27 01:43:00 -
[184] - Quote
a miner is prey and its only defense, like prey, should be fleeing to safety when the predators arrive |
Decarthado Aurgnet
Imperial Combat Engineers
Empire of Arcadia
2
|
Posted - 2013.04.27 01:46:00 -
[185] - Quote
EvilweaselSA wrote:a miner is prey and its only defense, like prey, should be fleeing to safety when the predators arrive
I can't argue with you about the predator/prey thing, but if you want industry in nullsec ... this's what you need. Shift a few guys from the defenders of the miners into the miners themselves with the extra defense. |
EvilweaselSA
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
576
|
Posted - 2013.04.27 01:49:00 -
[186] - Quote
i disagree; once properly balanced the smarter miners can realize that the riches of a/b/c outweigh the occasional barge loss
risk is a cost and the people in nullsec will be the ones who can properly value it not run from it screaming in terror |
Gilbaron
Free-Space-Ranger
Nulli Secunda
860
|
Posted - 2013.04.27 01:55:00 -
[187] - Quote
Decarthado Aurgnet wrote:Gilbaron wrote:
barges are not defenseless
there are intel channels
there are bubbles at the gate
there are cyno jammers
there is instant intel from local chat
there are drag bubbles set up from all gates
there are home defence fleets of cheap and easy to skill T1 cruisers
there are carefully planed traps
there is so much more you can do to defend yourself
Barges are defenseless - five drones can't fend off a single PvP ship of any kind. All those other things require tons of people camping gates to defend their own borders instead of doing things which are actually fun.
intel channels - just watch them and report anyone you see in your system who does not belong there - extra effort: .2% attention
bubbles at the gate - yeah, you are correct, setting up a bubble takes like two minutes, TWO !!!! - extra effort: less than .1% of the time required to mine
cyno jammers - yeah, you are correct, these don't come for free. setting up one requires some work, like 60 minutes for each, and another 20 per month after that, also some ISK. extra effort: 600m / month, 275m initial cost and some 20 minutes of work per month - BUT: what if i told you you don't need to jam every system ? especially not in the deepest regions of space, those that are usually rented ?
intel from local - see above, another .2% attention !
drag bubbles from all gates - yeah, another 5 minutes per grav site, horrible !
home defence fleets - yeah, effort, you are right, how horrible ! (what if i told you it's actually fun ?)
carefully planned traps - yeah, think of all those dieing enemys, horrible, think of their children. and the moment your trap snaps, think of it ! (doesn't it sound like fun ?)
We are recruiting german-speaking PVP players, contact me :)
Malcanis - CSM 8 |
|
Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises
Otherworld Empire
7898
|
Posted - 2013.04.27 01:59:00 -
[188] - Quote
Wheee
|
|
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation
RAZOR Alliance
4733
|
Posted - 2013.04.27 02:01:00 -
[189] - Quote
EvilweaselSA wrote:i disagree; once properly balanced the smarter miners can realize that the riches of a/b/c outweigh the occasional barge loss
risk is a cost and the people in nullsec will be the ones who can properly value it not run from it screaming in terror
You're not making any sense.
Maybe you're just trolling, since, well, goons do that, but I seriously doubt any intelligent miner is going to go "welp, if that neut that just entered local warps in and cynos a fleet on my ass to blow me up, that's just the cost of operation."
He's going to warp to a safe pos because not getting your ship blown up is a lot more cost effective.
EDIT: Or maybe I misunderstood what you said.
Module activation timers are buggy. CCP please fix. |
Liz Laser
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
6
|
Posted - 2013.04.27 02:01:00 -
[190] - Quote
Vaju Enki wrote:Dilbert HighSeed wrote:Malcanis wrote:Liz Laser wrote:
So when I do have a free moment, I spend it in high-sec. Except time spent in high-sec keeps becoming less and less valuable and I don't even login except to change skills.
Looks like someone moved your cheese. Maybe consider adapting? Spoken like a true null sec zealot, or should I say, CSM rep. Adapt or die. Sounds like this is what Liz Laser is saying. He plans on dying, which in this case means unsubbing. But I keep forgetting that is what the null sec zealots want. All those bleating sheep in high sec to just go away, and the game will be a better place, right? If they can't understand something as simple as risk vs reward, then good riddance.
Totally ok with risk vs reward. Would settle for Hi-sec being ENTERTAINING, especially for those of us with small chunks of playtime.
Like I said in another post... I WANT null-sec to be the best place for when I have time for it. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation
RAZOR Alliance
4733
|
Posted - 2013.04.27 02:03:00 -
[191] - Quote
Liz Laser wrote:Totally ok with risk vs reward. Would settle for Hi-sec being ENTERTAINING, especially for those of us with small chunks of playtime.
Like I said in another post... I WANT null-sec to be the best place for when I have time for it.
You're perfectly capable of making it entertaining now. Your imagination is more of a limiting factor here, really.
Module activation timers are buggy. CCP please fix. |
Liz Laser
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
6
|
Posted - 2013.04.27 02:27:00 -
[192] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Liz Laser wrote:Totally ok with risk vs reward. Would settle for Hi-sec being ENTERTAINING, especially for those of us with small chunks of playtime.
Like I said in another post... I WANT null-sec to be the best place for when I have time for it. You're perfectly capable of making it entertaining now. Your imagination is more of a limiting factor here, really.
Perhaps you're right. If you read my bio I never claimed to be a genius. Let's just hope the rest of high-sec has imagination, or big enough chunks of time for fun like incursions.
I'm totally ok with the idea that I can unsub until I have the free time null-sec requires, (even if it is through my own lack of imagination and I spend that 45 minutes a night watching episodes of Firefly again).
What would really suck is if lots of other high-sec people also see high-sec becoming unrewarding. That would mean no Eve for me to come back to when i develop leisure time again.
No one has ever succeeded at converting large numbers of carebears into PvPers (at least no one with death penalties as high as Eve's). They'll just go elsewhere once they see their playspace becoming unworthwhile.
And pages later I guess no one *can* point me to ANY Odyssey improvements that benefit or entertain high sec players? Or did that question get lost in the shuffle?
|
Falin Whalen
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
330
|
Posted - 2013.04.27 02:42:00 -
[193] - Quote
Decarthado Aurgnet wrote:Gilbaron wrote:
barges are not defenseless
there are intel channels
there are bubbles at the gate
there are cyno jammers
there is instant intel from local chat
there are drag bubbles set up from all gates
there are home defence fleets of cheap and easy to skill T1 cruisers
there are carefully planed traps
there is so much more you can do to defend yourself
Barges are defenseless - five drones can't fend off a single PvP ship of any kind. All those other things require tons of people camping gates to defend their own borders instead of doing things which are actually fun.
A single barge has only 5 drones, now multiply that by 5 to 10 barges for a really good mining op and what do you have? Also have to mention the two or three battlecrusiers to blow up the battleship rats that sometimes spawn in.
You've got to remember that these are just simple miners. These are people of the land. The common clay of New Eden. You know... morons. |
Galphii
Clandestine Vector
THE SPACE P0LICE
131
|
Posted - 2013.04.27 02:58:00 -
[194] - Quote
So, no changes to the regular belts in lowsec. People will have to use anoms and hope for spod of gneiss to show up I suppose.
I suggest removing the +5% & +10% rocks from highsec to provide further incentive for miners to go elsewhere for better yield.
X |
Decarthado Aurgnet
Imperial Combat Engineers
Empire of Arcadia
2
|
Posted - 2013.04.27 03:06:00 -
[195] - Quote
Falin Whalen wrote:A single barge has only 5 drones, now multiply that by 5 to 10 barges for a really good mining op and what do you have? Also have to mention the two or three battlecrusiers to blow up the battleship rats that sometimes spawn in.
In theory, sure, but the attackers wouldn't come with just a couple guys. Goons should know this as well as anyone. Giving the miners a bit of extra defense seems like carebearism, sure, but it'd really keep the miners working (even though they'd still be on their toes).
Bear in mind I'm in highsec and I'm not saying, "omg nerf null and boost high because i'm a derp," like a lot of people I've heard. |
Liz Laser
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
6
|
Posted - 2013.04.27 03:12:00 -
[196] - Quote
Galphii wrote:So, no changes to the regular belts in lowsec. People will have to use anoms and hope for spod of gneiss to show up I suppose.
I suggest removing the +5% & +10% rocks from highsec to provide further incentive for miners to go elsewhere for better yield.
You can't drag people out of high-sec.
However, your suggestion is an excellent one if you're a null-sec miner who simply wants less market competition.
But you'll just make some other hi-sec activity their plan B if you chase them out of hi-sec mining.
The number of miners who will venture out of high-sec and stay in low and null is insignificant.
The number that will remain MINERS in low and null is even more insignificant. It makes much more sense to PvE (ratting,plexing,etc.) and earn your iskies in a ship that can *somewhat* fight back. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation
RAZOR Alliance
4734
|
Posted - 2013.04.27 03:15:00 -
[197] - Quote
Liz Laser wrote:Galphii wrote:So, no changes to the regular belts in lowsec. People will have to use anoms and hope for spod of gneiss to show up I suppose.
I suggest removing the +5% & +10% rocks from highsec to provide further incentive for miners to go elsewhere for better yield. You can't drag people out of high-sec.
Why do people keep saying this?
Do you seriously think that people won't go where the isk is?
Module activation timers are buggy. CCP please fix. |
Galphii
Clandestine Vector
THE SPACE P0LICE
131
|
Posted - 2013.04.27 03:27:00 -
[198] - Quote
Liz Laser wrote:You can't drag people out of high-sec.
No, but you can entice them with more profit. Highsec is the training ground - let real profit be made elsewhere. 
Liz Laser wrote:However, your suggestion is an excellent one if you're a null-sec miner who simply wants less market competition.
Exactly - if people want more money from mining, they go to nullsec and do it. Also, I don't mine.
Liz Laser wrote:The number of miners who will venture out of high-sec and stay in low and null is insignificant.
Wow, you're amazing. Can you give me the lottery numbers while you're at it?
X |
Aria Ning
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2013.04.27 03:28:00 -
[199] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Liz Laser wrote:Galphii wrote:So, no changes to the regular belts in lowsec. People will have to use anoms and hope for spod of gneiss to show up I suppose.
I suggest removing the +5% & +10% rocks from highsec to provide further incentive for miners to go elsewhere for better yield. You can't drag people out of high-sec. Why do people keep saying this? Do you seriously think that people won't go where the isk is?
No they won't. What do you think would happen if they removed all belts in high sec? Think they would go down into lowsec? No. Many would quit, and those who don't would stop the mining profession and do something else. Highsec mining exists for a reason don't you think? |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation
RAZOR Alliance
4734
|
Posted - 2013.04.27 03:32:00 -
[200] - Quote
Aria Ning wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:Liz Laser wrote:Galphii wrote:So, no changes to the regular belts in lowsec. People will have to use anoms and hope for spod of gneiss to show up I suppose.
I suggest removing the +5% & +10% rocks from highsec to provide further incentive for miners to go elsewhere for better yield. You can't drag people out of high-sec. Why do people keep saying this? Do you seriously think that people won't go where the isk is? No they won't. What do you think would happen if they removed all belts in high sec? Think they would go down into lowsec? No. Many would quit, and those who don't would stop the mining profession and do something else. Highsec mining exists for a reason don't you think?
That has exactly nothing to do with what I said.
Module activation timers are buggy. CCP please fix. |
Aria Ning
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
1
|
Posted - 2013.04.27 03:35:00 -
[201] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Aria Ning wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:Liz Laser wrote:Galphii wrote:So, no changes to the regular belts in lowsec. People will have to use anoms and hope for spod of gneiss to show up I suppose.
I suggest removing the +5% & +10% rocks from highsec to provide further incentive for miners to go elsewhere for better yield. You can't drag people out of high-sec. Why do people keep saying this? Do you seriously think that people won't go where the isk is? No they won't. What do you think would happen if they removed all belts in high sec? Think they would go down into lowsec? No. Many would quit, and those who don't would stop the mining profession and do something else. Highsec mining exists for a reason don't you think? That has exactly nothing to do with what I said.
It does, but 100% not exactly. However, you're implying that players will go where the isk is where if there is isk in low/nullsec mining then they will venture there to mine. What I am saying is many won't. |
Lolmer
Yahoo Inc
Caffeine Nicotine and Hate
98
|
Posted - 2013.04.27 03:35:00 -
[202] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:We will also be making a significant change to the way hidden asteroid belts will be found by players. We are phasing out the Gravimetric signature category, and instead pilots will be able to find all Ore Sites using their shipGÇÖs built-in anomaly scanning equipment. This change will make finding hidden belts much less difficult for both miners and for those who would prey on them, so pilots are always advised to practice vigilance.
Why make ex-Gravimetric-now-Ore-Sites so easy to scan down? Finding valuable ore to mine should take some effort and should not be effortless (one extra-button press to basically make it a warp-able point like an asteroid belt). |
Lolmer
Yahoo Inc
Caffeine Nicotine and Hate
98
|
Posted - 2013.04.27 03:40:00 -
[203] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:When Odyssey is released, the current static (and massive) ice belts spread throughout space will be removed from the game, and replaced by a series of Ore Anomalies that will spawn and respawn only in systems that previously contained the aforementioned static ice belts.
+wormholes, please. It's silly that the solar systems found via wormholes have no ice, ever. No frozen water+ in any of them? Ever? Not even floating in from other systems as a comet (old topic)? You now have them an anomaly (cosmic signature would be better so that it needs to be scanned down and isn't a free 100% hit ;)), so having them randomly appear in wormholes is easy. :)
Might as well make the ice randomly show up everywhere, though maybe still limiting the ice type by region, and not in specific systems so that you must go hunting for it. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation
RAZOR Alliance
4734
|
Posted - 2013.04.27 03:41:00 -
[204] - Quote
Aria Ning wrote:It does, but 100% not exactly. However, you're implying that players will go where the isk is where if there is isk in low/nullsec mining then they will venture there to mine. What I am saying is many won't.
Well of course many won't. I guess I should have said "do you seriously think nobody will go where the isk is?"
The question is if many will. And I'm reasonably sure that yes, many people will. Even if not, nullsec and lowsec mining does need to be made more valuable than highsec. The casual player shouldn't be concerned about isk/hr, and those who want maximum isk/hr in the safety of highsec are the lowest common denominator and CCP shouldn't cater to them.
Module activation timers are buggy. CCP please fix. |
mynnna
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
926
|
Posted - 2013.04.27 03:42:00 -
[205] - Quote
There is an astonishing about of tears in this thread. Tears from nullsec ratters, tears from highsec miners and industrialists, the whole nine yards.
Probably means Fozzie did something right. 
ANYWAY
Lord Haur wrote:Also eagerly awaiting the Akita T thread detailing where CCP has ****** up the new T2 moon mineral requirements to move the bottleneck to (say) Mercury.
It's funny you should say that, because awhile back I duplicated Akita T's work in a manner that would let me predict the results of any changes like the ones CCP just did. Incidentally, R64s ARE the new bottleneck. BUT, feedback for Fozzie: Check Hafnium again, maybe Mercury too. Hafnium especially is dangerous, and could create a "New tech", where we have the four R64s plus Hafnium capturing the value. Given the point of the change was to shift value away from the regional Technetium, I doubt the intent was to turn Hafnium into the new Technetium. 
Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal |
Aria Ning
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
1
|
Posted - 2013.04.27 03:42:00 -
[206] - Quote
Lolmer wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:We will also be making a significant change to the way hidden asteroid belts will be found by players. We are phasing out the Gravimetric signature category, and instead pilots will be able to find all Ore Sites using their shipGÇÖs built-in anomaly scanning equipment. This change will make finding hidden belts much less difficult for both miners and for those who would prey on them, so pilots are always advised to practice vigilance. Why make ex-Gravimetric-now-Ore-Sites so easy to scan down? Finding valuable ore to mine should take some effort and should not be effortless (one extra-button press to basically make it a warp-able point like an asteroid belt).
I agree.
Although I didn't like the scan process itself too much (thought it took too much time just to only fine 1 gravsite out of 5-6 systems). I was hoping that they would instead have probes scan for certain anomalies. At least this would have cut the time down of scanning sites and somewhat allow someone who was mining in null/lowsec to be informed of an intruder scanning down in the system for kills. |
mynnna
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
926
|
Posted - 2013.04.27 03:50:00 -
[207] - Quote
Aria Ning wrote:Lolmer wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:We will also be making a significant change to the way hidden asteroid belts will be found by players. We are phasing out the Gravimetric signature category, and instead pilots will be able to find all Ore Sites using their shipGÇÖs built-in anomaly scanning equipment. This change will make finding hidden belts much less difficult for both miners and for those who would prey on them, so pilots are always advised to practice vigilance. Why make ex-Gravimetric-now-Ore-Sites so easy to scan down? Finding valuable ore to mine should take some effort and should not be effortless (one extra-button press to basically make it a warp-able point like an asteroid belt). I agree. Although I didn't like the scan process itself too much (thought it took too much time just to only fine 1 gravsite out of 5-6 systems). I was hoping that they would instead have probes scan for certain anomalies. At least this would have cut the time down of scanning sites and somewhat allow someone who was mining in null/lowsec to be informed of an intruder scanning down in the system for kills.
The fact that you had to probe them out cut both ways, since it made you quite a lot safer by raising the bar for gankers to get at you. Mining may be more valuable now, but it will be more dangerous as well.
Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal |
Aria Ning
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
1
|
Posted - 2013.04.27 03:51:00 -
[208] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Aria Ning wrote:It does, but 100% not exactly. However, you're implying that players will go where the isk is where if there is isk in low/nullsec mining then they will venture there to mine. What I am saying is many won't. Well of course many won't. I guess I should have said "do you seriously think nobody will go where the isk is?" The question is if many will. And I'm reasonably sure that yes, many people will. Even if not, nullsec and lowsec mining does need to be made more valuable than highsec. The casual player shouldn't be concerned about isk/hr, and those who want maximum isk/hr in the safety of highsec are the lowest common denominator and CCP shouldn't cater to them.
I agree that low/nullsec needs to be more valuable than highsec no doubt. But we're talking about mining here. Most people who do mine, mine while they're preoccupied with something else. I mean mining isn't exactly fun science. However, you can't semi-afk in low/nullsec mining, especially not alone (well maybe nullsec you might be able to semi--afk). Which is why i think many will not make or do the transition from high-sec mining to low/nullsec and with nullsec. And I am not even sure the rewards are even enough to incite such a transition. |
Dilbert HighSeed
Pirannha Corp
10
|
Posted - 2013.04.27 03:53:00 -
[209] - Quote
Liz Laser wrote:Aria Ning wrote:Liz Laser wrote:and seriously where's the high-sec cheese and/or entertainment for someone who has 45 minutes a night in high-sec? Have you played SWTOR yet?  I'm not saying its a better game than Eve. What I am saying is it is a far far better game than Eve for someone who has 45 minutes a night to play. SWTOR? Seriously? I think that game was the fastest and biggest budget AAA MMO to go from P2P F2P and not to mention Subs dropped like a rock. That game is fairly decent until you complete you character(s) storyline. But honestly, I don't play themepark MMOs anymore I just can't do it anymore. I guess it's because my first MMO was Ultima Online. But as for ore redistribution I am a little surprised myself. I figured they would add in more minerals to the high end ores but didn't expect them to be filled with Tritanium and Pyerite. It's still sad to see that Omber is still worthless, wonder why they didn't fix that one at least make it more lucrative than Veldspar. At 45 minutes a night I don't devour SWTOR "content" like most players. I still prefer Eve as a game, but not in such small bites. As far as the ore, they want null to be self sufficient. Heck, when I have the time to be a null-sec dweller *I* want to be self sufficient. But the realities are that high-sec needs a reason to exist until God creates more PvPers. Luckily, most players have more time than me, and incursions may be both the only remaining cheese and the entertainment in high-sec. Just doesn't work for an ultra-casual like me.
Liz, you have to remember, you are trying to converse with a zealot.
Facts and logic can never defeat ideology.
In their view of the Eve world, you have no place in it, and the game is better off if you and your kind unsub, and leave the game for the "real" players. |
Liz Laser
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
7
|
Posted - 2013.04.27 03:53:00 -
[210] - Quote
People go to null sec to see what the heck all the fuss is. At least i did.
People STAY in null-sec because they like adventure and teamwork.
That's just my opinion, but as another poster said, take the belts out of high-sec and you'll see I'm right.
EVERYONE has had a chance to do null-sec.
EVERYONE knows there are corps and alliances that will replace your lost PvP ships.
If they haven't come out to null yet, they just aren't going to. Heck, fly the right ships and corps/alliances will pay you more than your ship is worth.
If they didn't stay it wasn't nearly as much about profit as many of you seem to think. They weren't weighing risk/profit. Almost assuredly they were measuring obligations/fun or for the more wallet-minded obligations/profit.
The obligations of teamwork are what cause so many to return to high-sec.
You can nerf hi-sec all you want. But God is going to have to create more PvPers for CCP to stay in business, because hi-sec miners are not going to be your mineral slaves AND do CTAs, and do home defense, and fuel bridges, and relocate to new war fronts, and everything else that's involved in being null-sec. The people who come and STAY in null-sec are people who like to see stuff explode.
|
| |
|
| Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 [7] 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 30 40 .. 44 :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |