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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
Frools
No Quarter. Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2006.09.25 16:17:00 -
[901]
yep, and with +150 or so grid you could fit electrons + nos + mwd + 800mm + rep seems pretty balanced to me
~+150 grid, fixed speed and agility
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CherniyVolk
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Posted - 2006.09.25 18:22:00 -
[902]
Originally by: Frools yep, and with +150 or so grid you could fit electrons + nos + mwd + 800mm + rep seems pretty balanced to me
~+150 grid, fixed speed and agility
No. Electrons are not an option. It's supposed to be the ultimate close range threat. At the very least, ION IIs. I argue that the fitting should be as follows.
5xHeavy Neutron Blaster IIs, 1xMedium NOS II 10MN MWD II, Web, Scram MAR II, 2xMFS IIs, and the equivalent of 3xEnergized Adaptives IIs.
I personally don't care for the plate, and the plate difference could mark gank vs. tank as with a plate you wouldn't be able to fit 5 Neutrons, but 5 Ions.
Zealot isn't supposed to be able to be an overwhelming threat at close ranges. The Deimos is, so I strongly object to using Electron Blasters or basing any prospective "balance" from other HACs on Electron fits. Electrons do not suffice the damage output needs of the Deimos, and yes, I've seen gank setups of the Zealot using the best Medium Pulse lasers and it's very frustrating as it can easily take out a Deimos with a common Ion Blaster setup; at very close range. On top of all the other issues, the fact is, the Deimos really doesn't have sufficient DPS for it's role.
Now, maybe if they fix agility/speed and the ability to fit a Medium NOS, these things might make it's marginal DPS more effective, but if all else stays the same, the Deimos needs Neutron Blasters. Or, 10% damage modifier per level of Heavy Assualt Cruisers trained.
In general, I think all the damage outputs for all HACs could use a small boost. Becuase T2 BCs are ridiculous damage sponges. They can indefinately tank Empire sentries and take out a HAC... seems a bit extreme to me.
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Kunming
Amarr adeptus gattacus Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.09.26 08:27:00 -
[903]
Well Ions and Neutrons dont do enough dmg (especially compared to electrons) to make the deimos an up close killer ship.
So even if the deimos had more grid to fit a full rack of neutrons with everything else on top, it would only gain around 60 DPS over the electron setup. What a gank ship..
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Deathbarrage
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Posted - 2006.09.26 08:29:00 -
[904]
Originally by: Kunming Well Ions and Neutrons dont do enough dmg (especially compared to electrons) to make the deimos an up close killer ship.
So even if the deimos had more grid to fit a full rack of neutrons with everything else on top, it would only gain around 60 DPS over the electron setup. What a gank ship..
60 dps is the other average crow added to your dps
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Kunming
Amarr adeptus gattacus Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.09.26 09:01:00 -
[905]
Originally by: Deathbarrage
Originally by: Kunming Well Ions and Neutrons dont do enough dmg (especially compared to electrons) to make the deimos an up close killer ship.
So even if the deimos had more grid to fit a full rack of neutrons with everything else on top, it would only gain around 60 DPS over the electron setup. What a gank ship..
60 dps is the other average crow added to your dps
With AWU 5: 5x Heavy Neutron Blaster IIs = 954 PG (190.8 per gun) 5x Heavy Ion Blaster IIs = 711 PG (142.2 per gun) 5x Heavy Electron Blaster IIs = 472.5 PG (94.5 per gun)
Ions and Neutrons eat up too much PG and CAP (neutrons use 25% more cap than electrons) and dont justify it by vastly amplified dmg.
Dont compare a ship that always hits at 15km range with a ship that has a range of 5km and is 3 times slower. The whole concept of deimos is to get in close and once u're there death is pretty much guaranteed for your opponent. The concept of crow is to stay out of range and pepper the shields and hull of the target with missiles, it is meant to have only 60 dps 'cause of balance issues (even with 60 dps crow is a very powerful inty).
60 DPS is nothing for a ship thats meant to gank at "melee" range. The deimos cant perform its designated role as a melee ganker, its too slow, has too low fitting attributes, and even if it had good fitting the largest guns wont be worth fitting anyways!!
I dont know what SUXFORD is so afraid of, DPS is long not the determining factor for the outcome of a battle (crow is an excellent example).. deimos: gimme dmg or gimme death!
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kharon khala
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Posted - 2006.09.26 15:09:00 -
[906]
so any changes? any news about devs?
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Kunming
Amarr adeptus gattacus Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.09.27 23:02:00 -
[907]
Originally by: kharon khala so any changes? any news about devs?
Guess not, with Kali coming, Tuxford again didnt give a **** about the deimos, how many major patches has it been yet?
Still I'd like to have this thread on top to rub it in his face!! I wish.. I really wish he would make me eat my words!
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sh4kunetsu
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Posted - 2006.09.29 11:12:00 -
[908]
I was training for the Deimos, however now that I've come across this thread, I'm not so sure anymore. I would like to use a Ishtar tho.
Are all of the Deimos pilots who are upset about the current state of the Deimos flying Ishtar's? I wanted to know if it was a good ship to pvp with. thanks in advance for your replies.
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Cythera Zohar
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Posted - 2006.10.01 11:41:00 -
[909]
After owning one Deimos I will never own another untill the problems are fixed, Its just so crap! Rather fly a thorax.
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Kunming
Amarr adeptus gattacus Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.10.01 12:34:00 -
[910]
Originally by: Cythera Zohar After owning one Deimos I will never own another untill the problems are fixed, Its just so crap! Rather fly a thorax.
LoL I know what u mean; when u first get into a deimos your first reaction is "Damn, is this supposed to be a HAC", then you train up all relevant skills to lvl 5 and your reaction is "Damn, shouldnt have wasted all those SPs"
Try the vigilant, its a quasi-HAC and outperforms the deimos in many situations.
Well at least its worth training for and has much better "(price/efficiency) value" than the deimos.
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Bazman
Caldari The Establishment Establishment
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Posted - 2006.10.01 12:36:00 -
[911]
Originally by: sh4kunetsu I was training for the Deimos, however now that I've come across this thread, I'm not so sure anymore. I would like to use a Ishtar tho.
Are all of the Deimos pilots who are upset about the current state of the Deimos flying Ishtar's? I wanted to know if it was a good ship to pvp with. thanks in advance for your replies.
I fly the Ishtar over the Deimos in PVP. Quite simply, once you have high drone skills, the Deimos is no competition for an Ishtar. When I had Heavy Drones level 4 and Drone interfacing 4, my Ishtar still left my Deimos eating its dust. Now that I have Drone Int 5 and All T2 Heavy drones, it's just insane to fly a Deimos over an Ishtar -----
Hi TUXFORD! Blasterboat for tier 3 Gallente battleship please! Make it look cool too. Thanks.
I am a Gallente Whiner. Minmatar Whining is currently in training. |
Horza Otho
Minmatar Silver Star Federation
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Posted - 2006.10.01 12:54:00 -
[912]
Originally by: Bazman
Originally by: sh4kunetsu I was training for the Deimos, however now that I've come across this thread, I'm not so sure anymore. I would like to use a Ishtar tho.
Are all of the Deimos pilots who are upset about the current state of the Deimos flying Ishtar's? I wanted to know if it was a good ship to pvp with. thanks in advance for your replies.
I fly the Ishtar over the Deimos in PVP. Quite simply, once you have high drone skills, the Deimos is no competition for an Ishtar. When I had Heavy Drones level 4 and Drone interfacing 4, my Ishtar still left my Deimos eating its dust. Now that I have Drone Int 5 and All T2 Heavy drones, it's just insane to fly a Deimos over an Ishtar
I totally agree with Bazman here. Other then price comparisan, the Ishtar is vastly superior to the Deimos. All the Deimos needs is more PG. I'd be happy then.
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Kunming
Amarr adeptus gattacus Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.10.01 14:41:00 -
[913]
Originally by: Bazman
Originally by: sh4kunetsu I was training for the Deimos, however now that I've come across this thread, I'm not so sure anymore. I would like to use a Ishtar tho.
Are all of the Deimos pilots who are upset about the current state of the Deimos flying Ishtar's? I wanted to know if it was a good ship to pvp with. thanks in advance for your replies.
I fly the Ishtar over the Deimos in PVP. Quite simply, once you have high drone skills, the Deimos is no competition for an Ishtar. When I had Heavy Drones level 4 and Drone interfacing 4, my Ishtar still left my Deimos eating its dust. Now that I have Drone Int 5 and All T2 Heavy drones, it's just insane to fly a Deimos over an Ishtar
Well m8, I got over 10mil SP in gunnery and only close to 3mil in drones, you telling me I choose the wrong profession? Now thats the problem cause I'm thinking the same thing
Even on paper the drone boats outdamage the gun boats, ishtar with full blasters and drones out dmgs deimos, and by quite a large margin. Blasters need a complete overhaul IMO. Reduce their optimal by 50%, increase falloff by alot, reduce tracking and double the dmg, that would be more realistic for a slow blasma bolt floating in space. Would make flying blaster boats totally up to the skill of the pilot itself, and thats how it should be IMO.
ATM the equipment is failing no matter what the pilot does
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Dr YD
Fallschirmjager
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Posted - 2006.10.01 16:04:00 -
[914]
I'm posting because this thread has [omg] over 30 pages [/omg] and i just feel the need to do so.
/spam
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Pattern Clarc
The Priory
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Posted - 2006.10.03 07:41:00 -
[915]
weekly bump
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aquontium
Gallente Fourth Circle
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Posted - 2006.10.03 11:27:00 -
[916]
Originally by: CherniyVolk
"Deimos" is Greek, and loosely means "terror" or "panic".
Since no other HAC pilot panics landing near a Deimos, nor are they terrorized...
Perhaps we can request Tuxford rename the ship to "Fiasco"? Probably alot less controversial and effortless than actually fixing the ship.
seems like a good idea to me
Bazman mentioned getting a drone-HAC instead. I think it's the only way right now. 3 months and a one liner is about right :(. Deimos for the price is a very expensive thorax which is slower than a brutix. And did I mention it was slower than a Brutix?
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Miklas Laces
A.N.A.R.C.H.I.C.A
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Posted - 2006.10.03 12:26:00 -
[917]
Edited by: Miklas Laces on 03/10/2006 12:26:02 Way too many of my skill points are focused on Deimos-related skills. Haven't been flying one for months now, waiting for the promised changes that will never come.
At times I happen to think "hey it couldn't be that bad, it's a hac", I open quickfit and play with it for a while, then I close it unhappy. Doing this always makes me sad for the next few minutes.
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Bazman
Caldari The Establishment Establishment
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Posted - 2006.10.03 13:59:00 -
[918]
Originally by: Kunming
Originally by: Bazman
Originally by: sh4kunetsu I was training for the Deimos, however now that I've come across this thread, I'm not so sure anymore. I would like to use a Ishtar tho.
Are all of the Deimos pilots who are upset about the current state of the Deimos flying Ishtar's? I wanted to know if it was a good ship to pvp with. thanks in advance for your replies.
I fly the Ishtar over the Deimos in PVP. Quite simply, once you have high drone skills, the Deimos is no competition for an Ishtar. When I had Heavy Drones level 4 and Drone interfacing 4, my Ishtar still left my Deimos eating its dust. Now that I have Drone Int 5 and All T2 Heavy drones, it's just insane to fly a Deimos over an Ishtar
Well m8, I got over 10mil SP in gunnery and only close to 3mil in drones, you telling me I choose the wrong profession? Now thats the problem cause I'm thinking the same thing
Even on paper the drone boats outdamage the gun boats, ishtar with full blasters and drones out dmgs deimos, and by quite a large margin. Blasters need a complete overhaul IMO. Reduce their optimal by 50%, increase falloff by alot, reduce tracking and double the dmg, that would be more realistic for a slow blasma bolt floating in space. Would make flying blaster boats totally up to the skill of the pilot itself, and thats how it should be IMO.
ATM the equipment is failing no matter what the pilot does
Yes, you chose the wrong profession, Droney Droney is the way of the future! /me hides my vast collection of T2 Med Blasters -----
Hi TUXFORD! Blasterboat for tier 3 Gallente battleship please! Make it look cool too. Thanks.
I am a Gallente Whiner. Minmatar Whining is currently in training. |
Dash Ripcock
Caldari 0utbreak
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Posted - 2006.10.03 14:12:00 -
[919]
Edited by: Dash Ripcock on 03/10/2006 14:15:18
I've been away from the game for about two months - and we're still waiting on this one? Come on Tuxford, pull your finger out!
P.S. Just checked the date on when I started this thread. Nearly ten months. Ten months, thirty-one pages, nine-hundred and twenty-three posts and a lot of irritated Gallente pilots all in agreement. Are we getting anywhere yet? Ermm, not really.
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Xoduse
Beasts of Burden Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2006.10.03 23:10:00 -
[920]
Bump.
Its just not right that I have to use t1 named modules just to get a decent rack of guns on a ship that is supposed to be the ultimate close range threat, yet is 10 m/s slower (base speed) than the thorax. And the extra highslot? Name a cruiser module you can put there with Ions fitted. ---------------------
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Hellspawn01
Amarr The Phantom Conglomerate
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Posted - 2006.10.04 00:21:00 -
[921]
Ok. I¦m gonna post my setup again to show the problems with the ship:
The tank (lack of damage) 5x Heavy Ions II 1x Named med nos
1x Named MWD 1x Named/faction Warp scrambler 1x Named/faction Webber
1x Med armor rep II 2x RCU II 1x Named 800mm Plate 1x EANM II 1x Hardener II
Tank runs very long and guns do hurt if you have good gunnery skills.
The Gank (Faster, dunno about damage) 5x Heavy electrons II 1x Named med nos
1x Named MWD 1x Named/faction Warp scrambler 1x Named/faction Webber
1x Med armor rep II 1x Named nanofiber 2x Mag stabs II 1x EANM II 1x Hardener II
Consider this as a bump.
Ship lovers click here |
Sadist
Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2006.10.04 06:16:00 -
[922]
Originally by: Deathbarrage 30m/sec speed increase
mass decrease
350 pg increase
40 CPU increase
Deimos should be able to fit this:
5x ion II, 1x med nos
MWD, web, 20km
MAR II, 1x explosive II, 1x EANM II, 2x MFS II, 1x 800mm
only this will make it on par with HAC's like the zealot and the vaga
/Signed тттттттттттт
VIP member of the [23]
Quote: - Numbers alone do not win a battle - No, but I bet they help.
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Gary Goat
Aliastra
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Posted - 2006.10.04 14:30:00 -
[923]
Havent visited Eve-o for a while so i thought i'd come here and start a new post on the deimos as i assumed this one would have been dead and gone only to find it on the second page
Come on devs, sort it out already
Devs please read |
CherniyVolk
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Posted - 2006.10.04 22:23:00 -
[924]
Originally by: Xoduse Bump.
Its just not right that I have to use t1 named modules just to get a decent rack of guns on a ship that is supposed to be the ultimate close range threat, yet is 10 m/s slower (base speed) than the thorax. And the extra highslot? Name a cruiser module you can put there with Ions fitted.
I think we can put a Tractor Beam module up there. Because the ship is so slow, if it manages to survive the engagement a Tractor Beam is useful for collecting loot!
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Audrea
Momentum.
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Posted - 2006.10.05 02:05:00 -
[925]
Originally by: Kunming
Originally by: Bazman
Originally by: sh4kunetsu I was training for the Deimos, however now that I've come across this thread, I'm not so sure anymore. I would like to use a Ishtar tho.
Are all of the Deimos pilots who are upset about the current state of the Deimos flying Ishtar's? I wanted to know if it was a good ship to pvp with. thanks in advance for your replies.
I fly the Ishtar over the Deimos in PVP. Quite simply, once you have high drone skills, the Deimos is no competition for an Ishtar. When I had Heavy Drones level 4 and Drone interfacing 4, my Ishtar still left my Deimos eating its dust. Now that I have Drone Int 5 and All T2 Heavy drones, it's just insane to fly a Deimos over an Ishtar
Well m8, I got over 10mil SP in gunnery and only close to 3mil in drones, you telling me I choose the wrong profession? Now thats the problem cause I'm thinking the same thing
Even on paper the drone boats outdamage the gun boats, ishtar with full blasters and drones out dmgs deimos, and by quite a large margin. Blasters need a complete overhaul IMO. Reduce their optimal by 50%, increase falloff by alot, reduce tracking and double the dmg, that would be more realistic for a slow blasma bolt floating in space. Would make flying blaster boats totally up to the skill of the pilot itself, and thats how it should be IMO.
ATM the equipment is failing no matter what the pilot does
REducing optimal by 50% is very bad idea! Not only minimal orbit possible is 500meters, but the ship, and other gallente blaster boats are not agile enough atm to even hold 500meters orbit! It would be impossible to get in optimal, unless you bump it, and then its out of optimal again ------------------ Save Deimos!
All posts are my personal opinions. |
Frater Perdurabo
The Ancient Illuminated Seers of Bavaria
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Posted - 2006.10.05 03:24:00 -
[926]
I saw Oveur in local the other day (on a different char to this) first thing i said was 'Hi oveur please fix the deimos'... funny how a large quantity of fellow pod pilots chimed in to agree with me on this
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Kunming
Amarr adeptus gattacus Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.10.05 07:10:00 -
[927]
Originally by: Sadist
Originally by: Deathbarrage 30m/sec speed increase
mass decrease
350 pg increase
40 CPU increase
Deimos should be able to fit this:
5x ion II, 1x med nos
MWD, web, 20km
MAR II, 1x explosive II, 1x EANM II, 2x MFS II, 1x 800mm
only this will make it on par with HAC's like the zealot and the vaga
/Signed
Common ppl lets not forget about the MWD penalty reduction bonus, I rather have a mass reduction bonus ala hyperion..
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Dragy
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Posted - 2006.10.05 08:14:00 -
[928]
Originally by: Suvetar I suspect the changes in the new patch are going to vastly improve the Diemos :)
I'd like to ask 1 question. What Suvetar had in mind ?
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Damis Zohar
Pirates of Destruction Union
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Posted - 2006.10.05 10:41:00 -
[929]
Still not fixed huh ?
Should I buy another in case it ever is fixed or would I be wasting my isk?
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Jazz Bo
Caldari Celestial Apocalypse
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Posted - 2006.10.05 11:48:00 -
[930]
Originally by: Damis Zohar Still not fixed huh ?
Should I buy another in case it ever is fixed or would I be wasting my isk?
I just bought one. Because.... erm... it looks nice and... umm... it's good for killing Serpentis rats. Although not as good as an Ishtar.
Really, please fix the damn thing. Shame to see something so pretty go to waste.
Quote: Pew pew... ka-boom.... pew pew... squishhh
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