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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 15 post(s) |
Phoenix Jones
The Scope Gallente Federation
292
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Posted - 2013.12.04 20:46:00 -
[601] - Quote
I think we just gave CCP Rise a hell of a lot of feedback :-).
I think the General Jist is... Re-imagine.
Stabbers are totally broken
http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=15116553
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Phoenix Jones
The Scope Gallente Federation
292
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Posted - 2013.12.04 20:49:00 -
[602] - Quote
Candente wrote:Just reiterating what's been said so far: This ship has many bonuses in to many different areas. The bonus should be tailored to a clear role this ship supposed to fulfill that no other ships currently can. For example, remove all exploration bonus because without a cloak, there is no point. This ship should be a mini carrier given its role in RR. Some ideas to consider:
- Remove all turret/missile hardpoints/bonuses. No jumping ability to keep it from becoming OP.
- At least 2x the normal rep range while sacrificing rep amount. Bonus to drone repping amount.
- Fitting service and ship hanger (maybe half of an Orca's) for fleet and corp members.
- Creative abilities regarding drones. ie. Module that can passively repair drones that are in drone bay, or increase number of drones can be fielded.
Along with a low mass, only then a ship like this that cost over 2 bil ISK can be considered useful in wspace pve, primarily in lower class systems where caps can't be used.
Good start but I disagree on the Hanger/Maintenance array (Everybody has an opinion though). I personally want this ship to see combat in someway, rather than be an undersized orca. Stabbers are totally broken
http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=15116553
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Onictus
Silver Snake Enterprise Fatal Ascension
628
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Posted - 2013.12.04 20:50:00 -
[603] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote: Yeah. When people say "it's all over the place" they're not saying "this ship will be alright for these things", they're saying "it's not even worth using this ship to do these things at all".
Absolutely. There isn't anything about it that makes me think I want to fly it.
PvE Tank and gank? Not in armor, not enough lows, so you are stuck at around 660 drone DPS with two DDAs and a four slot tank, workable for level 4s maybe....this thing has a smaller cap base than a Vindi and lasers, so cap is going to be a constant issue, However, with 6 mids it has the capability to do goofy stuff like run dual TC triple Omni plus prop/MJD.....dual augmenters and beams......could be workable. It SHOULD apply damage very well over a decent range
....IF there is enough CPU (which would amaze me) and IF it has the cap base to run all of that for a tolerable amount of time with either semi's or CCCs......which I also doubt....and if there is enough grid to support all of that without fitting mods, because you aren't going to have a low or rig slot to spare, and as it is you can't fit full T2 rigs because ~pirate calibration~
For PvP, what are you going to do with? Hospital Domi on steroids? you are going to need a few of them, 4/5 slot buffer suitcase and a rack of SeBos so you can actually shift targets, 4 Large reppers and a couple cap transfers and an Omni? Could be interesting, but you have also now brought the DPS down below 500, and it won't outrun a snail, so if you go in with them you are going balls deep, or not at all.
.....and FFS toss that scanning bonus, its a horrible idea on a battleship, totally, and utterly useless. |
Freako X
Doom Inc
112
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Posted - 2013.12.04 20:54:00 -
[604] - Quote
I know I beat this to death in the previous frig/cruiser threads.... But I'm glad there is a logistics theme to this ship.
I'd recommend getting rid of the turret bonus and add the 100% range to remote repair bonus. I am not sure if a cap bonus for remote repair is needed on a BS. maybe add a drone repair bonus in with the damage and HP?
A logistics BS ... with drones and exploration is a very neat concept, IMO of course. |
Dersen Lowery
Laurentson INC StructureDamage
859
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Posted - 2013.12.04 20:55:00 -
[605] - Quote
Why not introduce a bonus based on some of the new shinies?
Hull bonus: -75% bonus to anchoring time of Mobile Depots
The ship can now refit for its various roles relatively quickly, without its being a "pocket carrier."
Add rep amount of logistics drones to the Gallente Battleship hull bonus, then introduce logistics sentry drones, so that the Nestor has a choice between powerful, short-range high-slot reps plus drone DPS, or less powerful but medium-range reps at the expense of drone DPS.
For exploration... that's a bit tricky. Instead of the Cov Ops cloak, maybe a +1 to warp core strength and, for something truly novel, a variation on the MJD, available from the SoE loyalty store and fittable only to the Nestor, which has the same spool-up and cooldown as a vanilla MJD, but instead of jumping 100km ahead of where you're currently going, you can Jump To any visible object within 50km. That would sort out the problem of slow-boating around exploration sites, but it might be way OP. I'm just spitballing. Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables. |
Rain6637
Team Evil
6415
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Posted - 2013.12.04 21:00:00 -
[606] - Quote
a shuttle bay... = ship maintenance hangar? Rainfleet on Twitch |
The Sinister
Eve Minions
34
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Posted - 2013.12.04 21:08:00 -
[607] - Quote
All I know is that: I Am Not Flying this thing without a Covert Cloak!
And I bet 100 million isk that over 50% of the Eve population thinks the same!
This Ship will be a Hi Sec suvenir
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Andrea Keuvo
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
57
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Posted - 2013.12.04 21:16:00 -
[608] - Quote
The more I think about it given the cost you are going to have to do something really unique for this ship not to become a bad joke.
Maybe -2 High, +2 Low, 175mb drone bandwidth with max of 10 drones deployed.
At this point it "might" be worth 2B+
The frig/cruiser work because the cov ops cloak without a racial frig/cruiser to V gives them a unique niche to justify the cost. This ship has nothing. |
Vivi Udan
Multiplex Gaming Li3 Federation
4
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Posted - 2013.12.04 21:20:00 -
[609] - Quote
jonnykefka wrote:
Counter-question: Do you intend this to be used with medium-sized ships, or mostly in RRBS gangs?
Given a range bonus, especially a range + amount bonus, we will turn this thing into the BS-sized faction UberGuardian. That sounds pretty awesome to me and would definitely have more PvP utility, but I'm not sure it's the ship you want to make.
As it is now, I think it'll be a super popular AT ship, you could make fun RRBS gangs using a couple of these or these plus domis, and if they were not ridiculously priced I could see finding some uses for one during a W-space POS siege (where we have occasionally used logi domis to supplement guardians), but as a W-space resident this isn't going to be useful to me most of the time.
Amera Khan wrote:It definitely needs some sort of range bonus to remote reps to make the amount bonus worth while. It doesnt need to have the range of the current logi but somewhere in the middle would be good.
The current base for Remote Reps are 8,400 meters which only works for small scale PvP and PvE. I would recommend 300% bonus to range (25,200 meters) and keep some form of repair bonus (I suggest between 25%-50%).
The ships are going to be expensive and therefore rather rare. Regardless of that, if you have a logi Battleship it needs something to make it stand out (other than just being a BS), especially with the price tag associated with that thing.
My 0.02 isks worth.
PS To those saying get rid of the Remote Reps... It's called a Dominix, it was introduced to the game in 2003
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Szrapnell
True RoHiKaNs
3
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Posted - 2013.12.04 21:22:00 -
[610] - Quote
So what's next? Sentry drone tracking bonus on drake with 25mb?
FFS change these bad bonuses (like others say: scanning bonus and data, relic bonus) for something useful.
That's not even fun anymore, why adding new ship that have same bonuses like other 10x cheaper ships + some totally bad bonuses for BS hull... Srly just don't add this ship if it will be like that.
It's terrible and that demeanor is unprofessional. |
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Zuzmaw
Universalis Imperium Li3 Federation
5
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Posted - 2013.12.04 21:22:00 -
[611] - Quote
The only good to come out of this ship is the cool design.
1. RR w/o range? 2. Most people use alts for not just scanning/analyzing, but scouting, making this ship's scanning bonuses a bit impractical in dangerous parts of space. 3. The desired role of this ship will never compete with what T3's already do more efficiently for less ISK.
And finally, No practicality as a PvP ship whatsoever. Inb4 'IT WASN'T MEANT TO BE" but my point is:
EVE has more than enough PvE ships, and this isn't even a good PvE ship to say the least.
Might as well add a salvaging bonus.
My suggestion is to drop the exploration bonuses and replace them with logi or damage bonuses. Why would anyone want to scan in a ship that's probably going to cost around a billion ISK? Then, decided whether it's a drone or laser boat. Hybrid dps roles don't work as well. (IE Old Typhoon, Naglfar). Awaiting tears. |
Thaddeus Eggeras
TwoTenX LEGIO ASTARTES ARCANUM
136
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Posted - 2013.12.04 21:31:00 -
[612] - Quote
First off, I highly doubt it is going to cost 2bil ISK. Might at first, but in a month or so it will come down
Second, you aren't getting a covert cloak, so let it rest, and make your bets. This will be used in high sec, and WHs for sure, and IF it keeps it's repair bonus I bet 0.0 too. I rather see it get a cloak bonus like Black ops and be able to jump through convert cynos and regular cynos. Make it more useful, and more in line with exploring but also good for some PvP actions. But like I have stated before, I doubt CCP cares much what I think or most of us think. So either suck it up and don't get the ship or be creative and find useful acts for it. |
Emma Yobibit
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
56
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Posted - 2013.12.04 21:32:00 -
[613] - Quote
Why the round shape? it has nothing special..... at all |
Scorpionstrike
Oh Bugga League 0f Grumpy 0ld Farts
6
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Posted - 2013.12.04 21:39:00 -
[614] - Quote
With The art of the ship i would much prefer the ring to be about the middle of the ship where the front (nose) of the ship and the back body join. This is because it looks like there is no front side to the ship, because of the the vertical beam at the other side. |
Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci
Umbrarum Paradisi
110
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Posted - 2013.12.04 21:42:00 -
[615] - Quote
I love the look of the ship, but it does need stats to change.
I've said something along these lines previously, but it is a vary mixed-up ship with a wide variety of bonuses.
But I've seen a suggestion I like, so I made up something:
Nestor
Amarr Battleship Bonus: 4% bonus to armor resists per level
Gallente Battleship Bonus: +1 active drone per level
Role Bonuses: 50% bonus to drone optimal range, tracking and velocity 50% bonus to large energy turret optimal range 50% bonus to scan strength of probes +15 virus strength to data and relic analyzers
Slot Layout: 6H, 6M, 7L; 4 turrets, 0 launchers Fittings: 11250 PWG, 680 CPU Defense (shields / armor / hull): 8900 / 9950 / 9900 Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap/s) : 6200 / 1044 / 5.9 Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 92 / .18 / 56000000 / 13.97 Drones (bandwidth / bay): 200 / 500 Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 75km / 95 / 7 Sensor strength: 24 Magnetometric Signature radius: 465 Cargo Capacity: 700
"A City made of Wood is built in the forest; A City made of Stone is built in the mountains; But a City made of Dreams....is built in heaven."
-Jovian Proverb-á |
The Spod
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
135
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Posted - 2013.12.04 21:43:00 -
[616] - Quote
The only thing I have against this design is that this won't bring anything to the table for nullsec exploration over a Dominix + covops.
This could be fine tuned to remove that covops from the equation, and put it in the Dominix so to speak. To make this viable to explore nullsec as a lone wolf.
The only thing this needs is a way to bypass gate camps. Trade that random RR bonus (without any capacitor transfer or usage bonus backing it up) to a sensible elusion bonus.
One such sensible elusion bonus: instant MJD jump upon activation. This would allow a MJD-warp to evade interception on most gate camps. Gate decloak - MJD - align and warp, with 3 inertia stabs and 3 warp stabs. Counterable, but reliable enough to evade most gate parties.
So,
EASY FIX: SWITCH RR BONUS TO INSTANT MJD JUMP, ALLOWS GATE CAMP EVASION FOR SOLO EXPLORATION IN REASONABLE WAY. |
Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci
Umbrarum Paradisi
110
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Posted - 2013.12.04 21:44:00 -
[617] - Quote
And I absolutely love the design- https://www.dropbox.com/s/wza1xux7ql2m3jp/SOE_Nestor_Battleship_FinalConcept_lrg.png
I don't want them to change it at all, no matter what. Change the stats all you'd like, but use this design. "A City made of Wood is built in the forest; A City made of Stone is built in the mountains; But a City made of Dreams....is built in heaven."
-Jovian Proverb-á |
Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci
Umbrarum Paradisi
110
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Posted - 2013.12.04 21:45:00 -
[618] - Quote
The Spod wrote:
One such sensible elusion bonus: instant MJD jump upon activation. This would allow a MJD-warp to evade interception on most gate camps. Gate decloak - MJD - align and warp, with 3 inertia stabs and 3 warp stabs. Counterable, but reliable enough to evade most gate parties.
I like that idea a lot, actually- instant MJD, but no cloak.... hmmm. "A City made of Wood is built in the forest; A City made of Stone is built in the mountains; But a City made of Dreams....is built in heaven."
-Jovian Proverb-á |
Nyancat Audeles
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
673
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Posted - 2013.12.04 21:53:00 -
[619] - Quote
> Remove the virus/scan strength bonus. Anyone who uses these for exploration is an idiot. > Replace with 200% range bonus on reps.
Then we can party!
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Bel Tika
Dirty Rotten Scoundrel's
28
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Posted - 2013.12.04 21:55:00 -
[620] - Quote
Are wee going to see more new designs in the future or are these just filling a hole or something? sorry im a newb lol |
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BeanBagKing
Aperture Harmonics No Holes Barred
258
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Posted - 2013.12.04 21:55:00 -
[621] - Quote
Let me try putting this another way...
Quote: Ship Class | Avg Price | 2,200,000,000 Dread | 2,360,500,000 | 0.93 Carrier | 1,177,500,000 | 1.87 Freighter | 1,244,500,000 | 1.77 Rorqual | 2,347,000,000 | 0.94 Pirate BS | 711,750,000 | 3.09 Navy BS | 350,500,000 | 6.28 Marauder | 1,127,250,000 | 1.95 Black Ops | 757,500,000 | 2.9
These are averages of a couple ship classes. The number on the far right is the guesstimated cost of the SoE battleship divided by the average cost of that hull class. So a ratio of 3 would mean that the SOE was 3 times as expensive as that ship class. So we can see a few things here.
We have a new Pirate BS that costs.. - Nearly as much as a dread - Almost twice as expensive as a carrier - 3 times as expensive as the rest of the pirate battleships - Twice as expensive as the most expensive T2 BS hull (Marauder) - 3 times as expensive as Black Ops ships
I'm hoping this illustrates why the players are complaining about the bonuses and noting the disconnect between price and performance. I don't think anyone expects this to be twice as good as a carrier, or three times as good as the other faction BS's. I can't help but feel there's a discrepancy here though. |
Sniper Smith
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
15
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Posted - 2013.12.04 22:01:00 -
[622] - Quote
I'd like to see even more than a 100% Range bonus like Rise suggested.. Maybe 200% or so.. Or another idea would be to make the Drone Damage amount Fixed, and let Range be tied to Gal BS Skill.. say 50% Per level ?
I like having more stats tied Skills, rather than hull bonuses.. I don't like ships where it's of no benefit at all to train the hull skill above 1 because all the practical use comes from hull bonus..
Second.. doing the math, I'd like to see the LP Cost looked at some more.. I understand it's the same markup you used for the Cruiser and Frig, but given how big this one is, it's too much. You are looking at ~2.5Bil for the Hull Alone. I'd like to see that come down to more like ~1.5, still more expensive than current Pirate hulls, but not stupidly expensive. Another option could be to adjust the Concord to SOE exchange rate.. Allowing incursion runners to make up the difference.. Though, and I say this as an Incursion runner myself, I think we have enough isk as it is, we don't need more.. That or find more ways to get Concord LP so we can spread the wealth.. But this is another topic.. |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
812
|
Posted - 2013.12.04 22:03:00 -
[623] - Quote
BeanBagKing wrote:Let me try putting this another way... Quote: Ship Class | Avg Price | 2,200,000,000 Dread | 2,360,500,000 | 0.93 Carrier | 1,177,500,000 | 1.87 Freighter | 1,244,500,000 | 1.77 Rorqual | 2,347,000,000 | 0.94 Pirate BS | 711,750,000 | 3.09 Navy BS | 350,500,000 | 6.28 Marauder | 1,127,250,000 | 1.95 Black Ops | 757,500,000 | 2.9
These are averages of a couple ship classes. The number on the far right is the guesstimated cost of the SoE battleship divided by the average cost of that hull class. So a ratio of 3 would mean that the SOE was 3 times as expensive as that ship class. So we can see a few things here. We have a new Pirate BS that costs.. - Nearly as much as a dread - Almost twice as expensive as a carrier - 3 times as expensive as the rest of the pirate battleships - Twice as expensive as the most expensive T2 BS hull (Marauder) - 3 times as expensive as Black Ops ships I'm hoping this illustrates why the players are complaining about the bonuses and noting the disconnect between price and performance. I don't think anyone expects this to be twice as good as a carrier, or three times as good as the other faction BS's. I can't help but feel there's a discrepancy here though. This analysis makes a pretty big assumption regarding isk/lp return and if the negative reactions are justified that level of return isn't likely. |
Ish Eistiras
Shrubbery Acquisitions Blohm and Voss Shipyards Alliance
2
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Posted - 2013.12.04 22:04:00 -
[624] - Quote
MeBiatch wrote:Tom-A-Hawk wrote:Bad and boring design, change those scanning and data bonuses, they're useless Agreed make the ship an escort carrier designed to compliment the srat and astrios. Currently the idea I like the most, unique flavor (potentially) in the BS range and a good "my first carrier" there are all ready mini dreads in the new mauraders, so a carrier lite would fit in. |
XvXTeacherVxV
The Cult Reborn
54
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Posted - 2013.12.04 22:10:00 -
[625] - Quote
Thaddeus Eggeras wrote:First off, I highly doubt it is going to cost 2bil ISK. Might at first, but in a month or so it will come down
Second, you aren't getting a covert cloak, so let it rest, and make your bets. This will be used in high sec, and WHs for sure, and IF it keeps it's repair bonus I bet 0.0 too. I rather see it get a cloak bonus like Black ops and be able to jump through convert cynos and regular cynos. Make it more useful, and more in line with exploring but also good for some PvP actions. But like I have stated before, I doubt CCP cares much what I think or most of us think. So either suck it up and don't get the ship or be creative and find useful acts for it.
The Stratios is 450m right now and its blueprint is 1/5 the price of this one. They will probably be almost 3b until the price comes down to a little less than 2b. I agree with most of the other posters here, this doesn't seem even close to worth that price if they aren't covert ops capable but if they were, 2b wouldn't seem so steep. Not that they necessarily should be, but they should be worth whatever they're going to cost.
The analyzer bonuses are pretty meh but fine if they aren't included in place of other actually useful bonuses. Logi bonus is good, but I agree that a range bonus would be appropriate too. Can you see the rapier?: http://imgur.com/aFelCpv,GH6lqDE |
Scuzzy Logic
Midnight Elites Partners of Industrial Service and Salvage
83
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Posted - 2013.12.04 22:14:00 -
[626] - Quote
One more thing: Why does the concept art call for RADAR sensor arays and M F Radar antennas when the ship has Magnetometric sensors... |
BeanBagKing
Aperture Harmonics No Holes Barred
258
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Posted - 2013.12.04 22:19:00 -
[627] - Quote
Quote:] This analysis makes a pretty big assumption regarding isk/lp return and if the negative reactions are justified that level of return isn't likely. Maybe, maybe not. Just about every estimate Ive seen points to it being in the 2bil plus range though. Lacking anything else to go on and no statement from CCP on the intended price point, this is all I have. If you have a more detailed analysis on the probable price though I'd like to hear it. |
Rek Seven
Probe Patrol Polarized.
1062
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Posted - 2013.12.04 22:19:00 -
[628] - Quote
Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci wrote:The Spod wrote:
One such sensible elusion bonus: instant MJD jump upon activation. This would allow a MJD-warp to evade interception on most gate camps. Gate decloak - MJD - align and warp, with 3 inertia stabs and 3 warp stabs. Counterable, but reliable enough to evade most gate parties.
I like that idea a lot, actually- instant MJD, but no cloak.... hmmm.
I like this too. The bonuses could be:
90% reduction in MJD activation time 500% to cloaked velocity No targeting delay after decloaking +1 |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
812
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Posted - 2013.12.04 22:20:00 -
[629] - Quote
XvXTeacherVxV wrote:Thaddeus Eggeras wrote:First off, I highly doubt it is going to cost 2bil ISK. Might at first, but in a month or so it will come down
Second, you aren't getting a covert cloak, so let it rest, and make your bets. This will be used in high sec, and WHs for sure, and IF it keeps it's repair bonus I bet 0.0 too. I rather see it get a cloak bonus like Black ops and be able to jump through convert cynos and regular cynos. Make it more useful, and more in line with exploring but also good for some PvP actions. But like I have stated before, I doubt CCP cares much what I think or most of us think. So either suck it up and don't get the ship or be creative and find useful acts for it. The Stratios is 450m right now and it's blueprint is 1/5 the price of this one. They will probably be almost 3b until the price comes down to a little less than 2b. I agree with most of the other posters here, this doesn't seem even close to worth that price if they aren't covert ops capable but if they were, 2b wouldn't seem so steep. Not that they necessarily should be, but they should be worth whatever they're going to cost. The analyzer bonuses are pretty meh but fine if they aren't included in place of other actually useful bonuses. Logi bonus is good, but I agree that a range bonus would be appropriate too. 2 things: 1, I'm not convinced the stratios has reached it's leveled price. Give it a few months for everyone who is interested to get on board and experiment and see where it stands the. 2. There is no reason that isk:LP will remain constant between the ships. Nothing short of allowing covert ops on the Nestor would probably have it see the same return that the stratios has simply because of the draw of that utility.
We're not dealing with a set of constants. Rather we're looking at where demand will balance out against the cost of supply. If the ship doesn't stack up and there are no special components propping up the price, I'd think it very unlikely that we'd see the price scale linearly with the LP store cost compared to a stratios. |
Scuzzy Logic
Midnight Elites Partners of Industrial Service and Salvage
83
|
Posted - 2013.12.04 22:21:00 -
[630] - Quote
Thaddeus Eggeras wrote:First off, I highly doubt it is going to cost 2bil ISK. Might at first, but in a month or so it will come down
Second, you aren't getting a covert cloak, so let it rest, and make your bets. This will be used in high sec, and WHs for sure, and IF it keeps it's repair bonus I bet 0.0 too. I rather see it get a cloak bonus like Black ops and be able to jump through convert cynos and regular cynos. Make it more useful, and more in line with exploring but also good for some PvP actions. But like I have stated before, I doubt CCP cares much what I think or most of us think. So either suck it up and don't get the ship or be creative and find useful acts for it.
You don't seem to Understand that even using the Pre-Ship-returns on SoE probes and launchers (using July data from EVE-Central) the ship would come to 1.67 Billion.
Unless CCP reduces the price or amps up LP distribution this thing will never, ever be worth its cost. |
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