EVE Search - Sticky:Dev Blog: Reprocess all the things!

Check My IP Information

All Channels

EVE Information Portal

Sticky:Dev Blog: Reprocess all the things!

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 30 40 50 60 70 .. 76 :: one page

Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 24 post(s)
Soldarius Deadman W0nderland Test Alliance Please Ignore 611	Posted - 2014.03.26 19:56:00 - [1711] - Quote Weaselior wrote: Soldarius wrote: Sgt Ocker wrote: The refining upgrade alone is worth more than 200 large pos's.. lol wut? Do you have any idea how much a Large POS costs? http://eve-central.com/home/quicklook.html?typeid=12235 That's 254M each. At your purported price, the implant would cost 50.8B isk, or about as much as a supercarrier or AT first prize ship. . he's talking the outpost upgrade not the impant dude which makes him correct, a fully upgraded minmatar t3 outpost costs about 60b to deploy and upgrade Oh, in that case, yeah. I thought he was talking about the implant. Nvm then. Free Ripley Weaver!
Akira Menoko Silnare Care Factor 11	Posted - 2014.03.26 21:35:00 - [1712] - Quote I like most of the proposed changes to refining, but the are a couple things I don't like when it comes to the POS reprocessing arrays: 1.POS reprocessor arrays seem too powerful to me. The combination of greater efficiency and getting perfect refines regardless of skill is just too over powered to me. If skills were applied to POS refines I could possibly, grudgingly, live with the 52%/54% efficiencies, but not when it's automatic perfect skills. So I think some sort of adjustment is needed to scale them back but still make them better than a standard station. I'd like to see the reprocessing arrays stepped back to 50%/52%. This would be enough to still make them better but not overwhelmingly better. I'd also like to see them take skills into account too. 2. cost of POS reprocessor vs. outpost upgrades When comparing the base efficiencies of reprocessing at a POS with the efficiencies of the outpost upgrades (as proposed in the deb blog), reprocessing at the POS is better until you get an outpost upgraded to the 2nd tier. The cost of upgrading an outpost to the second tier is in the range of 12 billion isk which, when compared to the 50 million isk price tag of a POS reprocessing array, is pretty extreme (about 250x greater). I'm not a fan of that huge price jump but no idea what could be done about it. As above, it'd be more acceptable if the POS reprocessors took skills into account and were reduced to 50%/52% base efficiency. I'm fine with them being competitive with the base outposts and first tier upgrades, but beyond that the cost of getting additional tiers is just too big for the outposts with refinery upgrades to not be superior.
Alexia Marhx Alveare Artifex Genesis II 1	Posted - 2014.03.27 02:03:00 - [1713] - Quote Kaimar Redcloud wrote: Raquel Smith wrote: Pretty miserable changes to Scrapmetal Processing. ^^^^This^^^^ Why did I waste my time training it? I hate mining so I rat and repro the loot for my mins to build with. Now I have to buy a POS and monthly fuel costs, a refining array and a jump clone with refining implants just to get CLOSE to what I'm getting now. So much for the "New Player Experince". I hope they like their noob ships. They're going to be in them a looooong time now. Ship prices are gonna jump again. I can see 400mil Domis by the end of the second week after the expansion. Great for the indy's,not so great for the new people. By the way CCP, if everything is better in low/null, why are your offices in Iceland and the U.S. (.9 or 1.0 equiv) and not in Syria (.3) or Somalia (0.0). Oh yeah, cuz it doesn't work that way. Corps put their best stuff in the safest places. Empire refining should be better than low/null. Nullsec alliances that pay for the upgrades, should get rewarded with close to empire refining abilities. Empire shouldn't be struggling to match null. BTW I live in sov null before I hear the carebear comments. Just waiting for a hiring freeze to thaw. ^^^^ Agreed! Once again, CCP is just trying to give "badboys" yet another boost...
Sgt Ocker Last Bastion of Freedom 139	Posted - 2014.03.27 05:41:00 - [1714] - Quote Inspiration wrote: And do not forget, CCP wants to see specialization and co-operation in the manufacturing chain. Not a lone dweller trying to do everything himself inefficiently and then cry about it on forums that it is unfair he is small and they are big! So yet another aspect of what was part of the Eve "SandBox" having play style dictated by developers rather than players. The best thing about eve was that you didn't need to fit into everyone else's play style. The game lent itself towards everyone having a choice and whether you played solo or in an alliance of 10,000 you could still carve a niche for yourself and play the game the way you wanted. Pretty much all recent changes have been pushing the sandbox element of Eve further and further off the map. "Specialization" ?? Yes CCP want players to specialize in refining, 100+ days of training, a month or two running missions for standings and a +4 implant. Oh hang on they are introducing a pos module that doesn't take skills into account - where is the incentive to specialize when you can do the same with "Anchoring 3" (12 hours training) and a pos module? If CCP was serious about Refining / Reprocessing Specialization they would not allow a no skills required module to be placed in Empire space pos's.
Luscius Uta 73	Posted - 2014.03.27 12:25:00 - [1715] - Quote While it was beyond silly that reprocessing gave better rates in an NPC station in highsec than in a sovnull outpost or at a POS (and totally unlike how you gave incentive for players to use a POS for their research and manufacturing needs), I think you should be able to have a 100% reprocessing yield with perfect skills, the best possible implant and maxed out outpost upgrade. Or alternatively, you could make a Rorqual able to reprocess items in its hold (at least when it's in deployed mode), and at greater efficiency - especially since you finally acknowleged that it needs love and that you're removing one of its uses.
Harah Noud Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire 8	Posted - 2014.03.27 12:39:00 - [1716] - Quote Inspiration wrote: Rivr Luzade wrote: [quote=Inspiration][quote=Rivr Luzade][quote=Inspiration] Isn't that obvious? Less volume = less hauling = less risk and less pre-requisites = less costs. A small scale producer can now do everything in a blockade runner and in less time! Let me fix this for you: Less volume == more stuff in your ship == more value in your ship == more risk and prerequisites == potentially more cost If I go with your other proposal: a POS is 2k m-¦ and a Refining and/or Compression module is very likely to be 4k m-¦, plus fuel and your Blockade Runner, which is of course fitted for tank and not cargo space, Seriously, why don't you donate your account and all stuffs to me? You keep coming with some stupid taken out of context text after another. Seemingly hoping i will streamline all of your industry for you! Producer != Miner Do not take industry tactics i wrote for miners and present them as I wrote them for production and then act like I am high! On top of this you haven't read a word i written, at least not comprehensibly anyway. If you loose slightly on refine for titanium and pyrite, it will not affect the production cost to the extent a POS is required to be competitive. The other minerals do not take up nearly as much space and can be shipped in refined form (refined by someone else). In short your insulting! K first let me address the competitive side of the equation. A 4% advantage by using POS is enormous, and can't be shrugged aside. Especially, if the POS cost is shared by a corp... If u use null sec numbers 86.8 to 72.4 then competitivity is really threatened Now I understand there r the security aspect, fuel, and risk vs reward, but u we're speaking of competitivity and saying 4% is nothing... U know that the margins on most T1 ships is btw 10-20% ? I think a good solution of compression array is to use the BP model, put the ore in a NPC station and use ur compression array remotely , and recover the compressed ore from the POS... Just an idea...
Alexia Marhx Alveare Artifex Genesis II 1	Posted - 2014.03.27 13:41:00 - [1717] - Quote The new refining charts don't make any sense... First of all, well established up to date empire stations refineries should be amongst the best available. Once you have the 3 skills at level V (refining, ref. eff., and specific ore), output should be near 99.99%. I agree though that not all reprocessing plants are the same... Like ORE mining stations should give better output than Gallente Supreme Court stations... But the best empire stations should never, absolutely never, have lower output than a small plant on the field in hostile territory. Keep in mind that null-sec is literally a warzone! Very few would invest on an industrial facility on a battle field, and the workforce would be expensive, if anyGÇª What should make low and null sec attractive is the minerals they hold, both in rarety and in quantity... Also, some refining stations should be specialized in specific minerals, like, if I'm not mistaken, Caldaries are more familiar with Kernite than Gallentes... I'd also like to make a suggestion: reviewing the refining "portions". Because, sometimes, you end up with 197 units of Arkonor and days from the next mining expedition (like me)... Lower their quantities while keeping the very same ratio, rounded down when appropriate... That way, refining a little amount would have more waste than a large quantity, which is realistic...
Sgt Ocker Last Bastion of Freedom 139	Posted - 2014.03.27 13:49:00 - [1718] - Quote Soldarius wrote: Sgt Ocker wrote: The refining upgrade alone is worth more than 200 large pos's.. lol wut? Do you have any idea how much a Large POS costs? http://eve-central.com/home/quicklook.html?typeid=12235 That's 254M each. At your purported price, the implant would cost 50.8B isk, or about as much as a supercarrier or AT first prize ship. Hmm.... you aren't by any chance in the market for a 4% refining implant are you? Because I've got a couple Id like to sell. On another note, having compression at a station would render useless the ability to anchor compression arrays in all NPC space. While it's true you can't contract to a POS, nor would I expect a single character trying to acquire the minerals for a cap ship to do all that hauling alone, you can sell raw ore and then buy compressed ore on the market, which is the method I would recommend. Or you can even put up exchange contracts selling raw ore and some isk in exchange for compressed ore. Why would anybody bother buying the 4% implant when there is no advantage to having it? Oh and as the implant has absolutely nothing to do with installing a refining array and would not be lost if the outpost were to fall into unfriendly hands.. .. And the price i quoted was an example of how much easier it is to replace a pos compared to an outpost.. As you can't just float the pos module in space without a pos neither can you have outpost refining without the outpost. BTW; I have a NYX I would be more than happy to sell you for 50 bil.
Torg Rann Tor Industrials 1	Posted - 2014.03.27 18:18:00 - [1719] - Quote This new compression/refining business needs a new contract type. There should be a contract type, similar to a courier contract, that allows a pilot to request that someone either compress the ore or refine it into minerals. Collateral would be needed. Payment could be isk or a percentage of the ore. The assumed refining percentage could be specified. Default to 100%, but could be anywhere from 1 to 114 percent. If someone changed the percentage to other than 100 it should be HIGHLIGHTED and in a BRIGHT COLOR to reduce scamming. CCP should calculate the outputs from the compression/refining, again to reduce scamming. The delivery station in the contract would not have to be the same as the pickup station, it should be HIGHLIGHTED and in BRIGHT COLOR if changed. The new contract type would make compression/refining more available to pilots.
Torg Rann Tor Industrials 1	Posted - 2014.03.27 18:23:00 - [1720] - Quote Compression should be added to the Orca, considering that compression for the Rorqual is changing so much. Will compression require the Rorqual to be in deployed mode to compress? Could the Rorqual/Orca compress while in a station or just in space?

Steve Ronuken Fuzzwork Enterprises Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM 2968	Posted - 2014.03.27 18:55:00 - [1721] - Quote Torg Rann wrote: This new compression/refining business needs a new contract type. There should be a contract type, similar to a courier contract, that allows a pilot to request that someone either compress the ore or refine it into minerals. Collateral would be needed. Payment could be isk or a percentage of the ore. The assumed refining percentage could be specified. Default to 100%, but could be anywhere from 1 to 114 percent. If someone changed the percentage to other than 100 it should be HIGHLIGHTED and in a BRIGHT COLOR to reduce scamming. CCP should calculate the outputs from the compression/refining, again to reduce scamming. The delivery station in the contract would not have to be the same as the pickup station, it should be HIGHLIGHTED and in BRIGHT COLOR if changed. The new contract type would make compression/refining more available to pilots. This is where a supply contract would make sense. Like a WTB contract, but able to have collateral from the supplier, and a material transfer from the buyer, with a duration from when it's accepted. Useful for times when you want someone to build some things for you, and they want to make sure you'll actually buy them, rather than sticking you with a hundred ships which you won't be able to sell, on your own dime. Steve Ronuken for CSM 9! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4236322 http://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/ Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Draxius Hamalia Clockwork Automatons 0	Posted - 2014.03.27 21:57:00 - [1722] - Quote I'm a relatively new player who is focusing on Mining and Industry at the moment, so I know I don't have the experience of most of the folks on this thread. At my core, I'm a math guy. "Spreadsheets in Space" was a line used to sell me on the game, not keep me away from it. There are pieces of the Refining experience I haven't played with yet (like Rorquals and compression), but on its face, the numbers make a lot of sense. I agree completely with the intent of the changes, but I think that the math could use some polishing up. This method assumes the same increase in Ore to Minerals conversion of 38.1%, but simply alters how some of the calculations are done. That having been said, if there was a way to make the Refining output "look like" 100% to the player, I'd prefer that - this just address the underlying calculations. Key for my new formulae (shorthand to save characters in the post). S = Station Equipment rating R = Refining skill E = Refining Efficiency skill P = Ore Processing specialty skill I = % gain from implant (4% => .04) So, the old formula is: S + .375 * (1 + .02R) * (1 + .04E) * (1 + .05 P) * (1 + I) While the proposed new formula is: S * (1 + .03R) * (1 + .02E) * (1 + .02P) * (1 + I) The problem that I have with the new math is that it shifts the value of Station Equipment from the least important number to pretty much the only important one. Skills end up with a "diminishing returns" effect that makes progression somewhat unpalatable. My view is that the mechanics should be altered somewhat - Station Equipment and Refining Efficiency should help reduce waste, while Refining and [Material] Processing should increase base yield, as follows: Base yield % = (1 + .03R) * (1 + .02P) * (1 + I) Waste % = (1 - S) * (1 - .02E) Net yield (pre-tax) % = [(1 + .03R) * (1 + .02P) * (1 + I)] * [(1 - (1 - S) * (1 - .02E))] If you run the numbers, you'll find that at a 50% Station Efficiency, the results for the CCP proposal and my own are identical (same 72.4% at max skills + 4% implant, but all the #s do line up). However, as you move away from 50% stations, the disparity becomes rather large (in both directions). Here are the numbers for max skill at 25%, 40%, and 60% stations 25% station: - CCP proposal: 36.2% - My proposal: 42.8% 40% station: - CCP proposal: 57.9% - My proposal: 60.5% 60% station: - CCP proposal: 86.8% - My proposal: 84.2% The intent here is to create a significant, but less-than-linear, impact for Station Equipment. Low-/Null-Sec Industry can still prosper without invalidating Hi-Sec. A 20% boon to refining (CCP-proposed 60% Minmatar Output refining max) seems a little much to me. On the flip side, the math would theoretically allow even higher level stations (up to ~74%) for even higher output before hitting what would be the new "Perfect Refine" ceiling. Anyone have any thoughts?
Regan Rotineque Arch Angels Assault Force The Kadeshi 258	Posted - 2014.03.27 22:47:00 - [1723] - Quote What about having regular compressed blocks from pos or station and higher yield rorq compressed blocks Show da rorq some luv
Karaburan Jolly Codgers Get Off My Lawn 6	Posted - 2014.03.27 22:58:00 - [1724] - Quote Overall I think the changes outlined are great but am wondering about some of the secondary and tertiary effects. The one I am thinking about now is mineral prices and how they are used as an index for other prices in the game. One example is that according to my understanding of bounties is that they use the value of minerals in destroyed ships for the calculated payout. If the mineral market is divided into minerals to be used in nearby systems to jita, and compressed ore market, how is this going to affect the indexed prices in the game? Will mineral prices fall dramatically and cause dramatic fluctuations in bounty payouts? Are there other examples of items/prices in the game that will be affected by the change in the mineral price structure? Also, I assume that the mineral composition of items for bounty payouts uses the manufacturing bill of materials and not the refined mineral prices. Otherwise this could also affect bounty payouts as well.
CRNA Exploring Blind TECH 1	Posted - 2014.03.28 00:34:00 - [1725] - Quote Can someone help me out with one thing here please (either through PM or post)? I'm trying to see how this will affect 0.0 miners in a simplified version. It sounds like they've increased mineral/topes composition of ore/ice to balance the lost minerals. I'm trying to figure where it will make sense to refine now - and if alliances need to upgrade refineries more so than they have now. Assuming max skills and implants (which I have) - can someone break down how many minerals you'll get in comparison to now? Before you jump and say it was already done, what I'm confused about is the fully upgraded Minmatar outpost, as it sounds like you'll get extra minerals/topes refining in one of those vs other tiers of Minmatar upgrades, and compared to other 0.0 stations with no upgrades/maxed upgrades What I'm basically after is trying to understand - what type of 0.0 station will it make sense to refine in after this patch - and how worth it is to upgrade various stations. If someone can break this down for me, I'd really appreciate it - because at this point I'm still very confused. Also, do people agree in general that it seems like it'll be better for 0.0 miners to sell compressed ore in Jita vs straight minerals? If so, my original question is intended to figure out the best place to build mineral intensive projects. Thanks!
Harah Noud Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire 8	Posted - 2014.03.28 01:16:00 - [1726] - Quote CRNA wrote: Can someone help me out with one thing here please (either through PM or post)? I'm trying to see how this will affect 0.0 miners in a simplified version. It sounds like they've increased mineral/topes composition of ore/ice to balance the lost minerals. I'm trying to figure where it will make sense to refine now - and if alliances need to upgrade refineries more so than they have now. Assuming max skills and implants (which I have) - can someone break down how many minerals you'll get in comparison to now? Before you jump and say it was already done, what I'm confused about is the fully upgraded Minmatar outpost, as it sounds like you'll get extra minerals/topes refining in one of those vs other tiers of Minmatar upgrades, and compared to other 0.0 stations with no upgrades/maxed upgrades What I'm basically after is trying to understand - what type of 0.0 station will it make sense to refine in after this patch - and how worth it is to upgrade various stations. If someone can break this down for me, I'd really appreciate it - because at this point I'm still very confused. Also, do people agree in general that it seems like it'll be better for 0.0 miners to sell compressed ore in Jita vs straight minerals? If so, my original question is intended to figure out the best place to build mineral intensive projects. Thanks! It s late so my numbers r gonna be approximate High sec: In station u r gonna need max skills ( lvl 5 in the two refining plus lvl 5 in the ore specific skill) plus the best refining implant +4% U ll get 72.4% which is the current 100% In other words if u get all max skills plus implant u r ore refining will not be affected by the patch. However, other ppl will be able to get more minerals refined than u Still in high sec: In a POS ppl can refine at a 75.6% with no skills or implants (having skills won't change the yield) Low sec: In POS ppl will refine at 78.1% still with no skills Null sec: Here the numbers will vary depending on the upgrade lvl of the player owned station, getting to a max refine yield in a fully upgraded minmatar station with 86.8% The other racial station will be lower by several percentage point, but they will be better than high sec stations In short, If u r a miner ur better off mining in null , and refining ur ore in a minmatar station in null for max yield If u r a miner not null or not close to a minmatar station, u can use a compressing array in a POS , to compress ur ore and reduce its volume and transport it to a minmatar station in null, for max reigning yield. U ll have to run the numbers, but even with transport costs the 15% better yield of a null sec minmatar station is worth it. So find ur self a null corp with minmatar station and who r willing to upgrade it (it ll cost like 60 bil to get the 86.8 refining yield upgrades...)
Jaiken High-Voltage 1	Posted - 2014.03.28 03:48:00 - [1727] - Quote If I want to make money as a compressor which I do currently with 425mm railguns it seems like I'm going to be doing alot more hauling. The current system has me hauling minerals that are already relatively small volume. With the new system it looks like the only way to compress is with the unrefined ore which is much bigger. Now the end result is relatively the same volume ie compressed dense veldspar vs 425mm railguns. The problem is that the uncompressed veldspar is twice as bulky as the minerals used to be. This costs me twice as much to compress the same ammount. The actual compression portion will cost nothing which is about what it costs now but the hauling is the thing that I am concerned about. Is this intended or are you planning a fix for this?? I would say that instead of compressing the ores the rorqual and pos mod should compress minerals. This would make things relatively the same as far as volume goes and would give the added benefit of letting builders order specific minerals that they need instead of getting a bunch of extra mins that they may or may not use.
Inspiration 130	Posted - 2014.03.28 09:21:00 - [1728] - Quote Arinyes Cantari wrote: Basically saying, this is just another step in the war against carebears. Plain and simple. CCP's way of saying, if you want to enjoy anything, get with the program. It is leveling the player field, it takes unfair advantages away from care bears and give care bears a better positions then say botters. Imagine having both good refine and compression at a NPC station, like now essentially. Bot accounts will be in a NPC corporation and have all the perfect tools to optimize their process. Always beating the actual players while being practically invulnerable economically speaking! Blowing up a few ships does nothing to hurt them. I hate arguing with static minds that relate everything relative to the status-quo. By definition these minds oppose logic, reason, posses a narrow view and object against solutions for issues that have half an existing workaround. Left up to them, nothing would ever progress!
Inspiration 130	Posted - 2014.03.28 09:28:00 - [1729] - Quote Harah Noud wrote: K first let me address the competitive side of the equation. A 4% advantage by using POS is enormous, and can't be shrugged aside. Especially, if the POS cost is shared by a corp... If u use null sec numbers 86.8 to 72.4 then competitivity is really threatened Now I understand there r the security aspect, fuel, and risk vs reward, but u we're speaking of competitivity and saying 4% is nothing... U know that the margins on most T1 ships is btw 10-20% ? I think a good solution of compression array is to use the BP model, put the ore in a NPC station and use ur compression array remotely , and recover the compressed ore from the POS... Just an idea... 1. NPC compression is bot heaven! 2. The 4% advantage is not true. With an implant and perfect skills at an NPC station you refine just 2% or something less efficient. 3. For a producer, only titanium and pyrite need a compressed source, the rest of the minerals is easily transportable without and might even come from null because of that. You will not find compressed ABCs on Jita market in volumes! 4. The cost part of titanium and pyrite in an end-product is much less then 100%, lets say 40% for example (it vaties per product and mineral prices after patch). Then your disadvantage vs a pos as a producer is 40% of 2% (assuming you use implant). Overall not using a POS to refine will hurt the margin but not to a 4%, not by a long shot! I hate arguing with static minds that relate everything relative to the status-quo. By definition these minds oppose logic, reason, posses a narrow view and object against solutions for issues that have half an existing workaround. Left up to them, nothing would ever progress!
Harah Noud Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire 8	Posted - 2014.03.28 09:48:00 - [1730] - Quote Inspiration wrote: Harah Noud wrote: K first let me address the competitive side of the equation. A 4% advantage by using POS is enormous, and can't be shrugged aside. Especially, if the POS cost is shared by a corp... If u use null sec numbers 86.8 to 72.4 then competitivity is really threatened Now I understand there r the security aspect, fuel, and risk vs reward, but u we're speaking of competitivity and saying 4% is nothing... U know that the margins on most T1 ships is btw 10-20% ? I think a good solution of compression array is to use the BP model, put the ore in a NPC station and use ur compression array remotely , and recover the compressed ore from the POS... Just an idea... 1. NPC compression is bot heaven! 2. The 4% advantage is not true. With an implant and perfect skills at an NPC station you refine just 2% or something less efficient. 3. For a producer, only titanium and pyrite need a compressed source, the rest of the minerals is easily transportable without and might even come from null because of that. You will not find compressed ABCs on Jita market in volumes! 4. The cost part of titanium and pyrite in an end-product is much less then 100%, lets say 40% for example (it vaties per product and mineral prices after patch). Then your disadvantage vs a pos as a producer is 40% of 2% (assuming you use implant). Overall not using a POS to refine will hurt the margin but not to a 4%, not by a long shot! I think ur missing something I m talking refining not compressing As a high sec miner and producer WITHOUT a POS but with perfect skills and implant the ore u mine will net u ore based on 72.4% at a high sec station A similar hi sec miner producer with a POS and no perfect skills and NO implant would refine at a 75.3 Math says it s a 2.9% So it seems we r both wrg In ur model this guy with a POS is in a corp and he doesn't pay the fuel cost, so right out of the production lines he already have a 2.9 price advantage Now a null sec miner-producer advantage is 86.8-72.4= 14.4 Is that excessive? Knowing how big the blue doughnut is... Frankly I don't know. I know that null sec production and mining need a helping hand, but is this too much? Let s wait and see But I feel that the old 100% refine should be attainable without the implant! I've u get 72.4 with max skills and then add the 4% implant. It feels more balanced and fair When u spoke on veld and pyrite u we're addressing compression, and as I said there is an issue with the ore volume and how many trips one has to take to a POS to compress effectively, u r solution was nice but can't be applied in all cases I liked the suggestion that mineral can be compressed (tweaking the formula to get the same ratio, taking into consideration the volume reduction of refining) or the remote use of a POS compression array from stations... Talking about BOTs is useless, high sec say the biggest bots r in null, and vis-versa , we can't prove who is right...

Darkblad Hilfe is like Free Entertainment 158	Posted - 2014.03.28 09:57:00 - [1731] - Quote CRNA wrote: Assuming max skills and implants (which I have) - can someone break down how many minerals you'll get in comparison to now? Before you jump and say it was already done, what I'm confused about is the fully upgraded Minmatar outpost, as it sounds like you'll get extra minerals/topes refining in one of those vs other tiers of Minmatar upgrades, and compared to other 0.0 stations with no upgrades/maxed upgrades Copy or download this Google Sheet and set station base, skill levels and implants. The numbers are the percentages compared to those we currently gain @ 100 % yield. A fully Mimitar Outpost will yield roughly 20 % more than we currently get. Refinining Array yields are the percentages that CCP Ytterbium noted in this thread. EVE Infolinks -+-áOld and new-áPortraits
Sgt Ocker Last Bastion of Freedom 139	Posted - 2014.03.28 13:12:00 - [1732] - Quote Regarding changes to refining, one thing seems to be missing from the equations. To get maximum refine now you need to have, refining 5, refining efficiency 5 and XX standings with the Npc Corp whose station equipment you are using. Post summer it becomes; StationBase50% Reprocessing5 Reprocessing Efficiency5 Ore Processing5 Implant RX-801/2/44% Corp standings ? --- missing link or just no longer relevant ? Net Yield72.36%
Harah Noud Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire 8	Posted - 2014.03.28 13:20:00 - [1733] - Quote Sgt Ocker wrote: Regarding changes to refining, one thing seems to be missing from the equations. To get maximum refine now you need to have, refining 5, refining efficiency 5 and XX standings with the Npc Corp whose station equipment you are using. Post summer it becomes; StationBase50% Reprocessing5 Reprocessing Efficiency5 Ore Processing5 Implant RX-801/2/44% Corp standings ? --- missing link or just no longer relevant ? Net Yield72.36% According to CCP the standing required is still 6.67, if I remember correctly
Weaselior GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 6779	Posted - 2014.03.28 13:39:00 - [1734] - Quote Inspiration wrote: 1. NPC compression is bot heaven! yeah bots will never be able to outcompete human beings in the complex task of warping a freighter to a pos a bazillion times Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Disadvantaged Persons Outreach Division: "We hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half."
Scaugh Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic 51	Posted - 2014.03.28 14:13:00 - [1735] - Quote Weaselior wrote: Inspiration wrote: 1. NPC compression is bot heaven! yeah bots will never be able to outcompete human beings in the complex task of warping a freighter to a pos a bazillion times Just buy your ores compressed.. There you go, a bazillion less JF warps required by you.
Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 246	Posted - 2014.03.28 14:21:00 - [1736] - Quote Scaugh wrote: Weaselior wrote: Inspiration wrote: 1. NPC compression is bot heaven! yeah bots will never be able to outcompete human beings in the complex task of warping a freighter to a pos a bazillion times Just buy your ores compressed.. There you go, a bazillion less JF warps required by you. Someone has to do it, and the task is soulless and unrewarding. It would be better for 75% of the use cases for compression for it to be available as a station service. The POS module would still be used by miners on the fringes of the galaxy (and in wormholes.) This post was crafted by a member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Nick Bete The Scope Gallente Federation 280	Posted - 2014.03.28 15:24:00 - [1737] - Quote So... almost 70 pages of questions, speculation, arguments and general uncertainty yet, not a single dev response. For such a major change to a fundamental part of the game one would think that CCP would want to get in here and clear things up. Come on CCP! I understand you're busy but you opened a thread asking for feedback then apparently vanish for a week? We players would appreciate some feedback and answers as well.
Dinsdale Pirannha Pirannha Corp 2484	Posted - 2014.03.28 15:48:00 - [1738] - Quote Nick Bete wrote: So... almost 70 pages of questions, speculation, arguments and general uncertainty yet, not a single dev response. For such a major change to a fundamental part of the game one would think that CCP would want to get in here and clear things up. Come on CCP! I understand you're busy but you opened a thread asking for feedback then apparently vanish for a week? We players would appreciate some feedback and answers as well. The null sec caretels have given all the information that they want to give. The numbers are all there. High sec is getting hammered, low sec is getting hammered to a slightly lesser degree, wormholes do well, null sec gets a ridiculously massive buff. Low skill players are crushed, null sec will be attracting high skill industrialists. Go read the post by the chief architect of this disaster over at the failed lawyer's website. He had a post prepared that breaks it down nicely, specifically how much null sec gains with this. Oh, and BTW, given he is on the CSM, you can treat his statement as fact about this just being the first "big change" for June. We are just seeing now is just another step of many of the complete degradation of high sec into a wasteland. Most people viewed Orwell's writings as a warning. The harper regime and the goons treat them as a guidebook.
Soldarius Deadman W0nderland Test Alliance Please Ignore 611	Posted - 2014.03.28 16:16:00 - [1739] - Quote CRNA wrote: Can someone help me out with one thing here please (either through PM or post)? I'm trying to see how this will affect 0.0 miners in a simplified version. It sounds like they've increased mineral/topes composition of ore/ice to balance the lost minerals. I'm trying to figure where it will make sense to refine now - and if alliances need to upgrade refineries more so than they have now. Assuming max skills and implants (which I have) - can someone break down how many minerals you'll get in comparison to now? Before you jump and say it was already done, what I'm confused about is the fully upgraded Minmatar outpost, as it sounds like you'll get extra minerals/topes refining in one of those vs other tiers of Minmatar upgrades, and compared to other 0.0 stations with no upgrades/maxed upgrades What I'm basically after is trying to understand - what type of 0.0 station will it make sense to refine in after this patch - and how worth it is to upgrade various stations. If someone can break this down for me, I'd really appreciate it - because at this point I'm still very confused. Also, do people agree in general that it seems like it'll be better for 0.0 miners to sell compressed ore in Jita vs straight minerals? If so, my original question is intended to figure out the best place to build mineral intensive projects. Thanks! At a 50% equipment refinery with max skills and 4% implant, you will get almost exactly the same yield as what is currently a perfect refining rate. Post change, if you refine at any structure with greater than 50% equipment and the same skills/implants, you will get more than what is currently perfect refining. The POS Refining Arrays are set at 52/54% and assume perfect skills. But it costs isk/fuel and effort to run a POS. So its up to you to decide if you want to go through the effort of refining at a POS should a well-upgraded refinery station not be available. But if you intend to ever move the stuff, compress it, with the only exception being Compressed Mercoxit ore. I don't care to haul compressed ore that is 100 times greater in volume than it's mineral content. Free Ripley Weaver!
Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 246	Posted - 2014.03.28 16:25:00 - [1740] - Quote Dinsdale Pirannha wrote: The null sec caretels "Caretels" is a great word. We collude because we care about you, the Eve: Online player. This post was crafted by a member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.



Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 30 40 50 60 70 .. 76 :: one page
First page \| Previous page \| Next page \| Last page

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online, the EVE logo, EVE and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to EVE-Search.com to use EVE Online and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, EVE-Search.com. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.