Except it won't. As I pointed out earlier, it's just going to make more people focus on Local as their primary Intel tool. Expect your targets to safe up as soon as you enter system instead of waiting for you to approach their plex/anom/whatever. Even more then they already did that is.

WH's a different story ofc.

2/10

Small gang and solo roaming is about to get a lot more tedious and risk averse. Facwar (and everywhere really) is going to be full of noobship/inty/covops alts warping to check every plex and every gate or celestial to check for recons and warping into every medium before anybody considers entering with actual PvP ships. The game already favors taking OGB and alt accounts just to set up fights to create content with a small gang. Players who can't be asked to accommodate these changes and bring alt accounts currently make do by using DSCAN and common sense are going to be forced out. These players also represent a large portion of content generators and will be missed.

This change is going to be detrimental to any newer pilots (experience or time in game) trying to get their feet wet into small scale pvp. It is going to set the bar of entry to pvp even higher. The only counterplay is having extra sets of eyes everywhere. Being vigilant with DSCAN doesn't count for anything in regards to these new ships. Fix DSCAN and address the issues with these hulls players are actually concerned about (there are some good quality of life changes this time but far too much broken and unnecessary changes as well) before taking the lazy/sloppy route making big gamebreaking changes to make it look like something is being done.

There will be hordes of unscannable gank fleets with little counterplay ready to end player gaming sessions with them being neuted, damped, jammed, webbed, painted, scrammed and tracking disrupted. This is going to be like the inty blobs after the added interdiction nullified bonus but with actual combat ships that you can't see coming unless you have eyes on grid with EHP better than HACs.

At least with cloaky recons there is a delay which balances out the fact that force multiplying ships can suddenly appear out of thin air. They already fill the role of ganking/camping/stalking. Keep the covop recons in that role and make the other recons viable for larger scale conflict like people are asking for. It still sucks for small gang because of how strong recons already are (a lot of us intentionally don't comp them in gang because they scare away fights and remove content for us) but a lot of gameplay styles would benefit from that change. Recons already get HAC EHP because they have more slots to dedicate to tank (for shield shield).

I like reducing cap for warp but increasing the cap is a bit much and removes too much counterplay from already really strong ships. They are already hard to jam/damp (unlike T3 recons) and have the ability to force multiply from great range.

This power creep really needs to be checked. I know a lot of people are already planning to abuse this not in celebration but in protest and to display how gamebreaking it is.

Things were on a good track for a while in regards to getting a lot of interest back in the game from a lot of former and current small gang types but these changes validate their leaving and are discouraging them from playing.

52 pages in and it all boils down to this:

Combat Recons with D-scan immunity are still less of a threat than cloaky T3's in all but FW plexes specifically because of the block on cloaking in them. Everywhere else, in every area of space, the cloaky T3 is more dangerous to the solo player. So yes, for FW players this will hurt a bit, mostly the solo guys. For everybody else there is still a greater risk than what is being introduced in Proteus.

As a solo player myself, I empathize, but you have to understand that game balance can't be focused on solo play. Especially in FacWar, where you are specifically trying to achieve a goal alongside other players, whether you choose to coordinate with them or not. Maybe they will play with the ship limitations in sites because of this, who knows. If you are solo then I'd recommend finding a Combat Recon that serves your purposes and plex in that. Fit creatively and watch your overview and you likely will never get caught, even by Lachesis's. Yes, I'm saying to fit Warp Core Stabs on your recon, that Lachesis isn't going to have unlimited points, and if they fit scrams their range is even shorter.

At that point just be happy that cloaking isn't allowed in FW plexes, because when that T3 decloaks he's gonna hit you with a bump and he's gonna have the DPS and tank to ruin your day without ruining his own.

TL;DR: Plexes are still safer than everywhere else, cloaky bumping T3's hurt.

For nullsec, I hope they just remove the local completely. The space is too empty most of the times, that people will just dock up when someone enters. So yeah, here I see your point.

This will break exploration.

"Use combat probes?"
Q. Can you probe and hack a container simultaneously?
A. No


"Use a scout?"
I've never heard of an exploration fleet, not once. Not ever.

At least it should be consider to have a D-scan immunity up to a certain distance for example 3 AU or at the maximum 1AU that will force scouts to actually get closer to gather intel, but complete D-scan immunity is just crazy

Depends what space you fly in. As a lowseccer, you can't always wait till a system is completely empty to do stuff, since many of the systems often have atleast a few characters in them. So this will give the opportunity to jump ratters etc.

For nullsec, I hope they just remove the local completely. The space is too empty most of the times, that people will just dock up when someone enters. So yeah, here I see your point.

This actually makes more sense....actually, make it combat recons cannot be descanned beyond 1.5 au, or 0.5 au..... the concept of dscan immunity is novel, and as a person who's always loved the recon class, kind of exciting to fly one with this kind of ability... but to have a ship class like recons to be dscan immune at all ranges is truly OP.

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In each and every release the Fozzie Rise nuttiness brings me one step closer to being able to warp cloaked in a Sin!

Before these changes, the gang considering fighting them never would because they know they can't deal with the Rooks. After, they won't see them and so they will probably engage. That's more fights because people are risk averse.

Balancing is about giving people options and not making bunches of ships entirely useless.

Ishtars are currently pretty strong compared to all other hacs, but do you seriously think that if this change is confirmed everybody will fly just combat recons?

The negative side for me is your other bullet point. Because people don't want to take unnecessary risk they will work very hard, sometimes doing something very boring or difficult, just to get at those last pieces of information. And they should. But we would want to avoid mechanics that obligate people to this kind of behavior too heavily without enough positive side to make the mechanic worthwhile.

I would be more worried with this mechanic that people have to spend a lot of time running probe scans when they really don't want to be than that they are avoiding engagements because of the possibility of Recons. I don't think this will be a problem but we'll have to wait and see.

Wow I hadn't looked at F&ID in a couple of days and all of a sudden massive thread on Recons. Haven't read the thread yet, but have read the blue posts.

CCP Rise any chance of adding the PvE bonus for Virus Strength to the Covert Recons? I had mentioned this to you in person at Eve Down Under.