The fit i made for the rapier should be right at 300dps using RLML. Close to what belli does. So rapier should still be ok.

RLML falcon would make sense, then again, idk if we need something that can permajam and nuke frigs.

I think this is a complex debate and I'm sure that none of us understand player behavior completely, but my experience is actually the opposite of what you're saying.

Yes, people are risk averse, they want to make good decisions when they're taking risks and that often leads being conservative. That's exactly why I like this kind of mechanic. People want to do the fun thing and take more engagements, but when they have enough information to know that they aren't the favorite they shy away from fighting. However, when some information is obscured they become optimistic and take more risks. I've seen players so willing to make decisions that are likely too risky simply because they lack perfect information. Jumping into gate camps where positional information isn't guaranteed, engaging on stations with people docked, fighting in systems with more in local than can be accounted for, etc. These mechanics that obscure information give people the excuses needed to take risks. Take the example given somewhere in this thread of a low sec camp with 2 Vexors and 2 Rooks. Before these changes, the gang considering fighting them never would because they know they can't deal with the Rooks. After, they won't see them and so they will probably engage. That's more fights because people are risk averse.

The negative side for me is your other bullet point. Because people don't want to take unnecessary risk they will work very hard, sometimes doing something very boring or difficult, just to get at those last pieces of information. And they should. But we would want to avoid mechanics that obligate people to this kind of behavior too heavily without enough positive side to make the mechanic worthwhile.

I would be more worried with this mechanic that people have to spend a lot of time running probe scans when they really don't want to be than that they are avoiding engagements because of the possibility of Recons. I don't think this will be a problem but we'll have to wait and see.

+1

I've always said that Combat Recons need some kind of special ability. D-scan immunity is many times less powerful than being able to warp cloaked while giving Combat Recons something special

Well done CCP. Side note, ima find a way to rat in null sec with Curses and Rooks now.

Eve already gives you so much information that this is not an issue in K-space. If I see a dashboard scan currently and notice ten hostiles in local and only nine accounted for, I assume the tenth is a Falcon. Now it could be a Rook instead. Whoop-dee-doo... Still a priority to kill or drive off early in the fight. Or I look up the hostile pilots' killboard, which tells me they always roll with Falcons or Rooks.

The variable comes in inside of W-space, where this will be another uncertainty in an uncertain environment.

The concern I have is in small scale fights where ECM is disproportionately powerful. It is now much harder to drive away that Falcon or Rook game changer.

All in all, very glad I have Recon V on all my older characters.

+1

I've always said that Combat Recons need some kind of special ability. D-scan immunity is many times less powerful than being able to warp cloaked while giving Combat Recons something special

Well done CCP. Side note, ima find a way to rat in null sec with Curses and Rooks now.

My ship just died as he warped into a medium plex to a combat recon.

Combat Recons not seen on DScan: I see this as a buff to low end Wormhole PvE myself.

Sure you can't see a combat recon coming but it cuts both ways, you can't see a combat recon running a site either.

People don't generally jump into WH and drop Combat probes. They jump in and do a DScan first. If they see someone, then they do a narrow DScan to the various anomalies and celestials. Only after that might they drop combat probes. There is no local in WHs so if you don't see someone on DScan you don't go probing for them.

Dscan immunity is staying.

Thanks for all the feedback.

Recons dont get used at the moment because...

I dont see how this will not destroy FW and probably a lot of other things. The main question is how much people will abuse it.

You are asuming that he/she has a alt that is flying around with him. How about the solo player or even a small pvp group that has no cele or any other ship to "counter" ecm.
You are absurd and so is your logic. You are thinking everyone flies in a fleet of 20+ where there is logi, ecm or even ecm counter, and links.
This is OP, its not bad enough that a falcon has a lock range of 120km, and they do jam over 80+km. Now the rook will not be on d-scan. WTF.
RUIN pvp more why dont you.
Yeah yeah, add mods to counter ecm, only if eccm worked.
ECM SHOULD BE TAKEN OUT OF THE GAME FOR GOOD.
RISE AND FONZIE HAVE F'ED UP THIS GAME, ESPECIALLY SOLO/SMALL GANG PVP.

More low slots for Lachesis. Not sure yet on this one, will talk it over here and see what we can do.

That's more fights because people are risk averse.

The D-scan immunity sounds interesting, and the debate is educational. But I do not like my in-game tools lying to me.

Chances are that FW plexs will get a change so that Combat Recons can't enter those sites to satisfy all these crying, whining, bitching and moaning so called Militias. Damn you babies cry a lot.

I hope for all your crying that a curse awaits you in every plex to eat you alive. One of those will be me. \m/ ( >< ) \m/

Lol, why even post in features & ideas discussion, then?

Take the example given somewhere in this thread of a low sec camp with 2 Vexors and 2 Rooks. Before these changes, the gang considering fighting them never would because they know they can't deal with the Rooks. After, they won't see them and so they will probably engage. That's more fights because people are risk averse.

RLML for Rook. Sure. Consider it done.

Instead of D-Scan immunity, why not give combat recons EWAR immunity?

Instead of D-Scan immunity, why not give combat recons EWAR immunity?