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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 10 post(s) |
C'ernd
Catastrophic Overview Failure Brave Collective
1
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Posted - 2014.12.18 17:07:45 -
[241] - Quote
As an avid Pilgrim Pilot, I must say, the change to them is underwhelming. The only thing it had going for it as far as hunting pve'rs was it's neut drain ability. While the increase the range is nice in theory, removing cap at the same range as a Curse with no bonus to the strength of the neuts will make for a lot of escaping targets that are faster than a Pilgrim, which for the uninformed.......there are a lot of. Bad call on this one CCP. |
Cynthia Aishai
State War Academy Caldari State
9
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Posted - 2014.12.18 17:07:47 -
[242] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:
Combat Recons will now be permanently undetectable by directional scanners
How about NO! |
Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
1244
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Posted - 2014.12.18 17:08:31 -
[243] - Quote
Joni Hariere wrote:Querns wrote:RTSAvalanche wrote:Ofcause not. This isn't WH space, or null bear hunting... FW is bread & butter pvp with out all the rubbish & F1 warriros. I dare say that your particular views towards PvP are not inviolate GÇö-áthe game can change. Maybe you need to start bringing a probing ship or using scouts! Thanks for following me where ever i go and scan for me, that way i can enjoy my pvp in this one character, without alts/links/scouts whatever. You might need to make friends. :shrug:
This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
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Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
1244
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Posted - 2014.12.18 17:09:58 -
[244] - Quote
It's actually pretty surprising to see the number of people who think that neut range is somehow worse than neut amount. Have any of you actually flown a pilgrim against, well, anything? Pilgrims needed the range very badly to avoid getting fridged by anything with even a remote ability to kite.
This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
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Reagalan
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
15
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Posted - 2014.12.18 17:11:02 -
[245] - Quote
The more I ponder this D-scan thing, the more I find it wreckless. There is, again, no reason to make combat recons any more "unique" as they already fill a vital role in fleets and small gangs, and enhancing this role through enhancing survivability would be more suitable. This D-scan thing is a solution looking for a problem. Many others have already pointed out how many problems it will cause, in wormholes, in faction warfare sites, and in nullsec fleets.
I get it CCP, you want to be bold and take risks, but there is a big difference between being bold and being wreckless.
- Phoebe jump fatigue was bold. Applying fatigue to subcaps using jump bridges (and thereby crippling home defense gangs) was wreckless.
- Drones as a standalone weapon system was bold. Neglecting consideration for the consequences (Drone Assist, the current Ishtar imbalance) was wreckless.
- Something to make interceptors "unique" was bold. Giving interceptors bubble immunity when they are capable of insta-warping was wreckless.
- AoE Doomsdays were bold. Allowing them to fire through cynos was wreckless.
You don't need to add to this list. |
rsantos
TEC-NOLOGY Sorry We're In Your Space Eh
23
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Posted - 2014.12.18 17:11:13 -
[246] - Quote
Ouch! Never expected the recon balance to be soo unbalanced.
So we get HAC Tank with EWAR bonus!!!
The D-Scan thinggy is just silly. I will make sure to abuse it!
Curse with double ewar nos/neut bonus... Really! Too afraid to give it a second drone bonus? Give some strength to minmatar recon webs too... pretty please!
Pilgrim range bonus is pretty much the only right thing I see in this balance. |
Teleil Zoomers
Usque Ad Mortem TCC.
17
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Posted - 2014.12.18 17:13:54 -
[247] - Quote
what in the actual ****? dscan immunity?
ahaha for solo to small gangs welcome to combat recons online, where you and your buddies are the all powerful hunters and are invisible and cant be dscanned and your prey is also invisible and cant be dscanned so you must combat probe evry single system.
pointless and op |
Joni Hariere
The Imperial Fedaykin Amarrian Commandos
19
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Posted - 2014.12.18 17:14:29 -
[248] - Quote
Querns wrote:Joni Hariere wrote:Querns wrote:RTSAvalanche wrote:Ofcause not. This isn't WH space, or null bear hunting... FW is bread & butter pvp with out all the rubbish & F1 warriros. I dare say that your particular views towards PvP are not inviolate GÇö-áthe game can change. Maybe you need to start bringing a probing ship or using scouts! Thanks for following me where ever i go and scan for me, that way i can enjoy my pvp in this one character, without alts/links/scouts whatever. You might need to make friends. :shrug:
SOLO PILOT , ever heard of one.
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TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
911
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Posted - 2014.12.18 17:14:38 -
[249] - Quote
let's distinguish between ewar ships that are useful for straight up gang stuff (T1), and ewar ships that are good for blobbing soloers (EAFs, force recons, proposed combat recons).
I think we could do with more from the first category, and less from the second category. blobbing my solo frigate/cruiser is already insanely easy without 25km warp scramblers and 80km disruptors/webs, you don't need that stuff and cloaks and has d-scan immunity as well. I was hoping this would be a nerf or removal of the tackle range bonuses on force recons, and a tank/cap fix for combat recons.
and **** ecm, seriously. |
Zen Guerrilla
CTRL-Q Iron Oxide.
306
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Posted - 2014.12.18 17:16:41 -
[250] - Quote
Interesting changes and ideas.
While i like the idea of removing ships from dscan, this is a huge thing in FW. As in, you might have just killed (solo) medium plex pvp.
pew pew
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Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
1244
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Posted - 2014.12.18 17:16:42 -
[251] - Quote
Joni Hariere wrote: SOLO PILOT , ever heard of one.
No, what's that?
This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
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GREYBOBSASS
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
20
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Posted - 2014.12.18 17:17:31 -
[252] - Quote
Edward Olmops wrote:D-Scan immunity is a cool new trait. I do not think its overpowered in comparison to regular cloaking in PvP. Just more variance.
But. People will use these things not to ambush people exclusively. This is like a "free ratting" card. You can be anywhere, doing anything WHILE being invisible on D-Scan. Regular cloaked ships can only sit around and produce a scary entry in local chat... Means people who want to ambush YOU will have to search the entire system - if you are in a Plex they will have to get into your room until they can see you. Which means in turn - at least in the environment as it is now - that you would be able to PvE completely unmolested.
Are there concerns that Combat Recons might become OMGWTFBBQOP-PvE-Boats? Or is that no issue due to the mediocre PvE combat value of this class?
screw pve you have a golem for that
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Dirk Morbho
Mindstar Technology Get Off My Lawn
19
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Posted - 2014.12.18 17:17:52 -
[253] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:Hello again o/ RAPIER
Slot layout: 4H, 6M, 4L; 1 turrets, 3 launchers(+2)
*WHAT*??
Dude, seriously stop with the missile infestation. CCP has already screwed up the cyclone and bellicose. Minmatar ships are meant to have projectile weapons. Stop ruining my rusty ships! Purge the Caldari virus now.
What next, all ships from all races need laser bonuses?
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TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
912
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Posted - 2014.12.18 17:18:43 -
[254] - Quote
Zen Guerrilla wrote:Interesting changes and ideas.
While i like the idea of removing ships from dscan, this is a huge thing in FW. As in, you might have just killed (solo) medium plex pvp.
that's still technically dead, since links and covops ships and even normal cloaks already exist. this just makes it easier to be terrible, which yeah is a bad thing. I just think it's worth whining about the other stuff while we're at it. |
Challus Mercer
Sacred Temple The Gorgon Empire
10
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Posted - 2014.12.18 17:19:07 -
[255] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:
Combat Recons will now be permanently undetectable by directional scanners I dont understand, first you say eve is about making decisions but now you take it from us by introducing such bonuses. Just think about solo or small scale pvpers. What decisions should they make for avoiding being permajammed by rook or tackled by huggin and lachesis? No recalibration time and invisibility for d-scan makes it impossible to counter. Now they gonna have even more EHP. Once you was a solo pvper yourself so why do you do it to us?
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Sir Constantin
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
22
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Posted - 2014.12.18 17:19:08 -
[256] - Quote
D-Scan immunity is way too imbalanced.
Maybe would work as a percent, like 85% chance to remain hidden on every scan, so a player needs to hit dscan 5 times to see your ship? That would be slightly less overpowered. |
Saede Riordan
Alexylva Paradox Low-Class
6675
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Posted - 2014.12.18 17:19:09 -
[257] - Quote
Can we get a separate thread for the discussion of the d-scan thing? I feel like all the other balance changes are getting lost behind that.
Fear and Loathing in Internet Spaceships
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Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate
1076
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Posted - 2014.12.18 17:20:02 -
[258] - Quote
Querns wrote:Joni Hariere wrote:Querns wrote:RTSAvalanche wrote:Ofcause not. This isn't WH space, or null bear hunting... FW is bread & butter pvp with out all the rubbish & F1 warriros. I dare say that your particular views towards PvP are not inviolate GÇö-áthe game can change. Maybe you need to start bringing a probing ship or using scouts! Thanks for following me where ever i go and scan for me, that way i can enjoy my pvp in this one character, without alts/links/scouts whatever. You might need to make friends. :shrug: The word "solo" does have a certain meaning to it. |
Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
932
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Posted - 2014.12.18 17:20:24 -
[259] - Quote
Let me contribute this to the whole "D-Scan Immunity" rage-fest...er...discussion.
What does granting D-Scan immunity grant Combat Recons allow them to do that other ships couldn't do already?
Other ships could already warp cloaked to your anom or belt and tackle you without you seeing them. And with the Force Recon buff, some of them would actually kill you solo. Post-Proteus Combat Recons can land on-grid with you sure, but unless they've fit a combat scanner (which gimps their fit and relies on scan probes that do show up on D-Scan) they can't land right on top of you. With the possible exception of a long-point Lachesis, you should have plenty of time to warp off unless you're sitting right at the warp-in spot.
What about acceleration gates? With those, even cloaky ships had to decloak briefly in order to use the gate giving you a chance to scan them. Post-Proteus Combat Recons will be undetectable until they land on grid. And there again is their weakness: the gate will always drop them, uncloaked, at the same spot. So unless they're sitting there waiting for you at the warp-in (which other cloaky ships could already do), you should have plenty of time to warp off as long as you don't sit on the warp-in.
EDIT: What about gate camps, ratting, or anything else that a Combat Recon would do whilst uncloaked? Proper scouting has always involved getting eyes on-grid to actually see the enemy's disposition. D-Scan immunity just makes proper scouting more critical to see if they have Combat Recons hiding in plain sight.
The sky isn't falling folks. We'll just have to pay a bit more attention to what we're doing.
CCP Falcon's thoughts on suicide ganking.
Reading Comprehension: so important it deserves it's own skillbook.
I want to create content, not become content.
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Lim Hiaret
Hiaret Family
0
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Posted - 2014.12.18 17:21:13 -
[260] - Quote
TrouserDeagle wrote:Zen Guerrilla wrote:Interesting changes and ideas.
While i like the idea of removing ships from dscan, this is a huge thing in FW. As in, you might have just killed (solo) medium plex pvp. that's still technically dead, since links and covops ships and even normal cloaks already exist. this just makes it easier to be terrible, which yeah is a bad thing. I just think it's worth whining about the other stuff while we're at it.
You can't cloak inside a FW plex, right? |
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Rahmiro
Discrete Astrographic Reconnaissance Technologies This Is How We Roll
67
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Posted - 2014.12.18 17:22:21 -
[261] - Quote
In the spirit of change, I'm going yes on the dscan changes for combat recons. Combat probes for EVERYONE!
Having just fit a pilgrim for close range neuting power, td's and a little tank, I no like more range.
I never seen these people in my life.
I don't recognize them Your Honor
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TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
912
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Posted - 2014.12.18 17:23:00 -
[262] - Quote
Lim Hiaret wrote:TrouserDeagle wrote:Zen Guerrilla wrote:Interesting changes and ideas.
While i like the idea of removing ships from dscan, this is a huge thing in FW. As in, you might have just killed (solo) medium plex pvp. that's still technically dead, since links and covops ships and even normal cloaks already exist. this just makes it easier to be terrible, which yeah is a bad thing. I just think it's worth whining about the other stuff while we're at it. You can't cloak inside a FW plex, right?
yes you can. get any ship, put a cloak on it, and get another ship and don't put a cloak on it. put them both inside a fw plex. congrats - you can now kill me. |
Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
1244
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Posted - 2014.12.18 17:23:11 -
[263] - Quote
Rivr Luzade wrote:The word "solo" does have a certain meaning to it. In Eve: Online? Not really. Hell, people using gang bonuses on their alt still consider themselves to be "solo."
This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
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Marlona Sky
Burning Napalm Northern Coalition.
5721
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Posted - 2014.12.18 17:23:48 -
[264] - Quote
There is a couple things here I am concerned about:
- ECM still offers no counter play. Effectively rendering a player unable to do anything for at least 20 seconds plus the time it takes them to relock anything. 99.99% fo all combat in this game involves locking a target. ECM drones turn any ship into a diet Blackbird. ECM needs to be revamped from the ground up and should not involve removing a players ability to play the game.
- Celestis being incredibly powerful from 100+km is silly.
- If it turns out combat recons not being on the directional scanner is an option, perhaps showing the ships as the T1 version of the ship instead would be a good compromise. i.e. the directional scanner shows an Arbitrator on scan when in fact it is really a Curse.
Semi-related, but what are the odds of a new high slot module that can not be fit if there is any type of cyno fit as well, only allowed for recons and means they do not appear in local? Perhaps I am dreaming a bit too hard here.
The Paradox
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MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
2026
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Posted - 2014.12.18 17:24:40 -
[265] - Quote
Querns wrote:RTSAvalanche wrote:CCP Rise wrote:
Those goals lead us to the following major changes:
Combat Recons will now be permanently undetectable by directional scanners
Well that's just complete and utter bullsh!t... As if Solo pvp wasn't hard enough, we can not even rely on our D-Scan now?? somthing that we have relied on for the past 10 years.. You are basicaly breaking around some core mechanics here. Faction Warefare has been completely broken since Incarna, now you are telling me that recons with web, neut, damp & ECM bonuses will be able to hide in plain site in FW plexes and there is no conventional way to find them. Even if combats work to find them, we would have to do that for every plex... I smelt somthing bad in the air when the mobile scan inhib came into game, didn't realise things were going to be this bad. POWER CREEP is getting excessive.. Do they not have combat probes where you live?
One more step to making the nestor a thing.
There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people...
CCP Goliath wrote:
Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
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Aliventi
Hard Knocks Inc.
789
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Posted - 2014.12.18 17:25:30 -
[266] - Quote
I really do like some of the things you did here. The cap additions and tank additions are spot on. Those are two areas recons really suffered. Props on recognizing and fixing those issues.
I was hoping three additional things would happen. First, they would all be essentially the same ship. Second, all of them would receive Covert Cloaks. Third, that one of each race would be a shield tank and the other would be armor tanked. The reason for one to be armor tankable and the other to be shield tankable would be because if you want to fly a shield fleet you should be able to bring all 4 recons along. Same for an armor fleet. part of the reason that T3s are used so often in armor fleets to provide the recon services is that they tank WAY more. The reason for the covert cloak would be for Black Ops you could bring either a shield version or the armor version along. In BlOps fleets there are pros and cons to both. The reason for them to be essentially the same ship would be so that in either an armor or a shield fleet if you bring the one that is supposed to tank the same you would always have the same level of capability present. If you were to go with this I think that armor and shield tanks fleets win, BlOps wins, and you get your fancy "doesn't appear on D-scan" with the covert ops cloak. |
Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
1244
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Posted - 2014.12.18 17:28:36 -
[267] - Quote
MeBiatch wrote:One more step to making the nestor a thing. If it had a CPU reduction for probe launchers, anyways.
Really wish they had just given the Nestor the covert jump drive it so desperately needs.
This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
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l0rd carlos
Friends Of Harassment The Camel Empire
1111
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Posted - 2014.12.18 17:28:37 -
[268] - Quote
Yeah, I don't like this. For roaming gangs there is almost no reason to take combat recons. It's still not really worth to put guns on them. Fit it for max Tank / Speed, gang will bring DPS.
The dscan change will be only usable for niche cases and traps / ganks.
Suitonia has some great ideas. He put in words what I was thinking.
German blog about smallscale lowsec pvp: http://friendsofharassment.wordpress.com
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Jazz Caden
Convicts and Savages Shadow Cartel
29
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Posted - 2014.12.18 17:29:21 -
[269] - Quote
While this seems kool from a fleet perspective, it is going to be really really frustrating for solo and small gang pilots. This is especially true for some newer FW pilots.
When they go into a FW plex and immediately get tackled and killed it will be very disappointing and you really wont be able to do anything about it.
And if your response is: "just combat probe before you go into the plex" then you need to go jump off of a high object b/c that is completely ridiculous.
The great thing about FW space is being able to fly around quickly and engage multiple people in a small space of time. This DSCAN change will change that heavily, and not in a good way IMHO. |
BKuCKy
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
0
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Posted - 2014.12.18 17:30:00 -
[270] - Quote
Ahahah yep less pve-ers! More RMT!!!! PLEX for real money!!! |
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