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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 5 post(s) |
Lugh Crow-Slave
1850
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Posted - 2016.04.10 16:34:27 -
[811] - Quote
Zoltan Cole wrote:Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:I'll take it you never played many long duration table top RPGs like dnd
You didn't need to all be sitting down at a table with a board in front of you and you didn't need any preset goal or quest all you needed was the other people in your group and a few pie defined rules. This magic has been lost in most games but has still managed to stick around with eve
As it is, the announcement is for taking out a single rat for a reward of 10k SP. The relevance of AFK FCing seems minimal. More players logging on to do their task is more characters to FC. The equation is obvious, so what exactly is the point being made? Aluanna wrote:I don't see a problem supporting log on behavior, I would just rather see it weekly than daily. Or even monthly.. That way you can spread the task out over a longer time.
With a daily reward for killing a single NPC people are ABSOLUTELY going to log on, grab any old frigate, find the nearest anomaly, warp in, kill a single ship, grab the reward, dock back up and log out. There are no metrics for this and no reason for such a claim. If it's to benefit new players (obviously -- it's 10k SP), what's to say that there's established a "log-off automatically" mentality.. Nothing. They're online and getting experience. That's what the company believes retention comes from. They've stated the same for grouping, so it's within reason to bet on them planning that as well. Yet, the announced version is the most direct method of getting players online and undocked (and retained by lowering that queue -- interesting correlation).
There are more organic ways to get ppl to log in that CCP had managed to do b4 without them being the express goal and without telling players this is what they should do
And powwow logging on just to get the SP are probably just going to log on kill rat log off.
Add to the FC thing I was giving that add an example of how toy can play the game and s have an impact on other people playing without needing to be logged in. Showing how that playstyle is not detrimental to the game and equally as valid as playing while logged in
Citadel worm hole tax
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Carrion Crow
Dropship
17
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Posted - 2016.04.10 16:34:40 -
[812] - Quote
As a noob I can remember the thing immediately hooked me about eve was the dark nature and the depth of complexity.
It was a scary dangerous world, that punished me terribly for venturing away from my mission hub.
I can remember a landing next to a Myrmidon ( I thought it was the biggest thing I had ever seen ) in a belt, the first time I went to low sec.
My frigate was immediately destroyed... but I had shot someone! in lawless space!
A few days later I met a guy who helped me out, gave me isk for new ships and helped me learn to survive.
The infinite darkness, complexity and social nature of the game is what makes people want to log in.
Downplaying this and trivializing the nature of the game through daily grinds like this eat away at the eve online brand.
CC
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Lugh Crow-Slave
1850
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Posted - 2016.04.10 16:35:21 -
[813] - Quote
Ruby Gnollo wrote:baltec1 wrote:I don't log in every day, I simply do not have the time every day to sit down at a PC to play a game. I have things I need to do, people to see, things to wash, food to eat and so on. People only spending time in a game at the weekend is a very real thing. So, if you have not enough time to play Eve, why the **** would you want to be treated like taking it ?
What?
Citadel worm hole tax
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Zoltan Cole
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
3
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Posted - 2016.04.10 16:41:28 -
[814] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:There are more organic ways to get ppl to log in that CCP had managed to do b4 without them being the express goal and without telling players this is what they should do It's stated plenty in the thread that this is obviously for fresh characters. They have little else to be interested in except cheap SP because they don't have ships unlocked or methods of making dosh.
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:And powwow logging on just to get the SP are probably just going to log on kill rat log off. See
Zoltan Cole wrote:There are no metrics for this and no reason for such a claim. If it's to benefit new players (obviously -- it's 10k SP), what's to say that there's established a "log-off automatically" mentality.. Nothing. They're online and getting experience. That's what the company believes retention comes from. |
Lost touch
Fla5hy Red.
28
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Posted - 2016.04.10 16:48:56 -
[815] - Quote
Seems like a P bad idea tbh...
You dont need me to explain why you already know why its a crap idea!
Fla5hy Red the wrong way, only faster
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Lugh Crow-Slave
1851
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Posted - 2016.04.10 16:54:40 -
[816] - Quote
Zoltan Cole wrote:think of the newbie
OH quit it this is not for the new players and you know it
Citadel worm hole tax
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Draciste
Everyone vs Everything THE R0NIN
36
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Posted - 2016.04.10 17:03:43 -
[817] - Quote
and what about the same if you got "killmark" ?
https://twitter.com/Draciste
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Princess Newstar
All Sockets Closed HELM Alliance
0
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Posted - 2016.04.10 17:05:27 -
[818] - Quote
Instead of concentrate so much on new things, what about getting your old crap to work proberly ??? |
Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat FETID
2640
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Posted - 2016.04.10 17:07:36 -
[819] - Quote
T-Jay Charante wrote:Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:sero Hita wrote:I am generally quite possitive about the changes CCP has done the last years, but with this I have this nagging feeling that the motive behind is more sinister. The claim is more will log in, but it will be only briefly to get the SP, defating its purpose. Dailies and weeklies made me quit SWTOR, as I in the end hated logging in just to repeat the same **** I did every day. So as this does not have the wanted affect, let us then look at what is does do.... it injects quite a lot of SP into the system. That is convinient just after SP trading was implemented. You can create 6 extra injectors per year per char. that is potentially (In an extreme best case scenario) 18 extra extractors bought from CCP for each account. Nice way to make money, it will not get more people in space for longer periods of time though. The goal of dailies is not to get more people playing just to get more ppl to log in increasing log in averages and thus will do just that. It's not a change to make things better for players but a change to make things better for ccp But it does make things better for the players, and for CCP too obviously. If I am juggling a few games at any particular time, instead of logging into one of the other games, I'm logging into Eve. Ok, maybe for 5 minutes, or maybe once I log in, I stay for longer than expected, who knows. But at the end of the day, I'm playing Eve rather than the other game.
how does it make things better for players? its creating a chore (this wont be the last one either) maybe 5 minutes now, but give it 6 months and everyone will be required to login everyday to feed themselves or they will die forever (or pay $59.99 for a special diet plan which makes you live for a month). these chores are totally cancer in games.
this idea as ive said before has had no thought what so ever put into it, they could easily advance on the pve events they hold and make them better and more engaging for players, giving the whole playerbase something to do regardless if you pvp or not
FETID now recruiting pvp pilots & corporations | lowsec pvp & piracy - Join FETID
Loyalist to Angel Cartel & Serpentis
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Aluanna
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
15
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Posted - 2016.04.10 17:08:19 -
[820] - Quote
Zoltan Cole wrote:Aluanna wrote:I don't see a problem supporting log on behavior, I would just rather see it weekly than daily. Or even monthly.. That way you can spread the task out over a longer time.
With a daily reward for killing a single NPC people are ABSOLUTELY going to log on, grab any old frigate, find the nearest anomaly, warp in, kill a single ship, grab the reward, dock back up and log out. There are no metrics for this and no reason for such a claim. If it's to benefit new players (obviously -- it's 10k SP), what's to say that there's established a "log-off automatically" mentality.. Nothing. They're online and getting experience. That's what the company believes retention comes from. They've stated the same for grouping, so it's within reason to bet on them planning that as well. Yet, the announced version is the most direct method of getting players online and undocked (and retained by lowering that queue -- interesting correlation).
Yea, because Eve players haven't time and time again shown that they will take the easy way over the hard way any time.. All those trade bots in trade hubs that automatically 0.01 isk undercut. Or trying to use a broadcasting macro to mine on several accounts.
If you don't think it will happened you are just plain delusional. Many might not do it, but saying that it won't happened because there are no "metrics" showing it is just wrong.
Doesn't need to be an established mentality.. It just needs to be something as simple as not really feeling like playing that day, but also not wanting to miss out on about 4 hours of extra training a day. Hence why I'd rather see it as a weekly or monthly task, to alleviate some of that 'Not wanting to miss out' mentality. spreading the task out over a week means you are a lot less likely to miss out from not wanting to play a couple days a week or month.
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:Problem I see with making it such a large task is that means it's even more time I'm spending out grinding rather than doing what I want at least with one npc a day that's only 365 extra rates worth of grind I need every year.
Hence why I suggested that there should be far more ways to receive the reward than just PVE. be it kill X number of players, mine X number of ore units or complete x number of scans. You should be able to get the reward doing whatever it is you enjoy doing in this game. Limiting it to PVE, even if the task is trivial is just plain dumb.
Ideas for missile launchers to make firing missiles more interesting/rewarding
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Lugh Crow-Slave
1851
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Posted - 2016.04.10 17:12:25 -
[821] - Quote
Aluanna wrote:Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:Problem I see with making it such a large task is that means it's even more time I'm spending out grinding rather than doing what I want at least with one npc a day that's only 365 extra rates worth of grind I need every year.
Hence why I suggested that there should be far more ways to receive the reward than just PVE. be it kill X number of players, mine X number of ore units or complete x number of scans. You should be able to get the reward doing whatever it is you enjoy doing in this game. Limiting it to PVE, even if the task is trivial is just plain dumb.
What about people like me who play the game by managing an alliance providing content to others and teaching newbie how would I get the sp?
Citadel worm hole tax
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u3pog
Ministerstvo na otbranata
735
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Posted - 2016.04.10 17:22:33 -
[822] - Quote
Daily I won't bother, only casual player, but it you add weelkly and more challenging I might do it. |
Mayharm
EVE University Ivy League
3
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Posted - 2016.04.10 17:24:29 -
[823] - Quote
IN A PLAYER DRIVEN FUTURE
[11:15]
Servers are back online and you login. You open the corporation interface and check the daily missions on offer BY Eve University. Currently there are no dailies that provide an industrial reward/input and you're an industrialist. You check the Eve universities daily mission channel:
[11:15:32] EVE System > Channel MOTD: Welcome to E-Uni dailies!
E-Uni membership: 1696 Dailies membership/license ratio: 75%
E-Uni license total: 1497 Open licenses: 360 Dailies posted: 937 Dailies completed: 200
Online dailies Co-ordinator: Player Agent Smith [11:16:03] You > Hello, can i get an industry daily please? [11:17:56] Player Agent Smith > Hi, ok we have 360 open so sure. We need hulls mostly, what can you build for us? [11:18:12] You > I can build incursus, algos and thorax hulls
* Agent Smith checks what e-uni is planning over the next few weeks and sees a fleet that uses a thorax doctrine. NOTE that if there is no need for your services at all, you can log off, you can go look for content as if there were no daily, your choice, but you have been inspired to login for 5 minutes to CHECK for a daily.
[11:21:52] Player Agent Smith > Ok I can set up a daily for a thorax hull, payment 10M isk, with an Ore site reward. That ok with you? [11:22:04] You > Yes please
* Agent Smith sets up the daily using a contract style interface. E-uni pays a fee to CONCORD of 1M isk and pays you 10M isk just as they might within the existing contracts system, you set up a manufacturing job for the thorax to deliver into the corp hangar and once the daily is completed CCP gives you a random journal entry. Because Agent Smith set the daily to give an ore site reward that journal entry leads to an Ore site, for example a small kernite deposit in highsec with a total worth of 10-20M isk.
[11:24:49] You > Thanks! [11:24:55] Player Agent Smith > You're welcome! Now go out and show those rocks who is the boss!
You then spend x amount of time (I don't mine enough to know how to work out the time factor in this example) UNDOCKED completing the site in your hulk.
Tomorrow you could login and decide, just for kicks, to do the same daily but get a combat site reward. This would be a 3/10 complex in highsec, say serpentis narcotic warehouse, which gives you an opportunity to try out your new exploration vexor.
Pros:
- You are only "forced" to login by CCP, which is what they want out of this. The "force" applied to you to actually DO a daily is driven by the players themselves, which is what WE want out of it, yes?
- It requires some level of interaction between players. That's even if NOTHING happens.
- It provides a boost to the existing contract system without replacing it.
- The rewards are direct copies or variations of sites you can already do in space, so no threat of drastically unbalancing the eve economy.
- All CCP need to code is the interface, hopefully the contract and expedition/exploration code can be re-used or added to include this relatively easily.
- It solves a long standing issue for new players trying to do combat sites in highsec. All the decent content is hoovered up by experienced players in Gilas and Ishtars. A new player just cant compete, will be discouraged and may never get to see a 3/10 site before they give up. In this case it's a journal entry and so nigh on impossible to be contested for the site, but you still have the danger of being in space nonetheless.
- With the license structure you can balance it so that gaming the system is discouraged. E.g.:
Corp Members - % licenses - Total licensees 1 - 0% - 0 2 - 50% - 1 10 - 55% - 5 100 - 60% - 60
Even if someone insists on setting up an alt corp and fills it with their nine accounts worth of alts, they benefit MORE from doing this *with* other players trying to do the same thing, encouraging "grinders" to join a single corp (which you could then wardec if you don't like grinders.... they will be un-docking after all).
- The rewards can be balanced to be tempting for newer players but not something you couldn't live without as an experienced player. I know when exploring I prefer 4/10, but will do 3/10 if i cant find them. If I cant get my "free" 3/10 and want to explore, i would just go back to my usual routine and search for 4/10s. I do see it being annoying not to get it as a new player, BUT that inspires them to go ASK their corp for more or to switch corps to one that they believe might provide them more dailies. In the E-uni I expect people like me would forgo taking up one of the license points from the newbros if we could help it, other corps might put different systems in place to control the supply, providing more player-driven content.
- CCP can start small with this, but if it works it can be scaled up, tied to sovnull/structures and still be driven by the players not CCP. CCP can also expand the interface to include different types of exchanges between the player corporations and their membership.
- Because it's inspired by the existing contracts system it should be easy enough to take estimates of the impact of this by looking at corp contract stats. In addition with CCP controlling the fee, the license and the value of the reward site, they should be able to take swift action to modify the numbers if players find a way to exploit it.
Cons:
- CCP might choose to introduce exclusive content via dailies, this system doesn't prevent them from doing so. However, while I don't think it's immune to this, I think it being player driven might mitigate the resultant problems with that.
- There is a disadvantage for smaller corps getting a lower license ratio, but it should be possible to balance the license ratios between their needs and the risks of exploitation.
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Terranid Meester
Tactical Assault and Recon Unit
341
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Posted - 2016.04.10 17:25:04 -
[824] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
What about people like me who play the game by managing an alliance providing content to others and teaching newbie how would I get the sp?
Indeed, there are more important things to do in eve. This just gets in the way besides being the slippery slope to Hello Kitty Online. |
Lugh Crow-Slave
1852
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Posted - 2016.04.10 17:25:55 -
[825] - Quote
u3pog wrote:Daily I won't bother, only casual player, but it you add weelkly and more challenging I might do it.
Don't worry when dailies work they will no doubt add weeklies,monthlie and special days
Oh don't forget the log in x days straight to get a unique item
Citadel worm hole tax
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Amarisen Gream
Divine Demise Apocalypse Now.
235
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Posted - 2016.04.10 17:34:31 -
[826] - Quote
40+ pages.
As has been stated, there are tons of other features that need cleaned up, that are more important than a daily reward program for logging on.
But, if i have read enough, the consent is! WE DO NOT WANT DAILIES. This is EVE, not WoW or any other grind based MMO. So please, rethink this...
I know the OP was the stepping stone to more features built on this one. But, as has been stated, we have tons of features already that are half ***ed and not complete.
Put more man power on the Ghost fitting window, redoing the PVE combat experiences, being able to swap toons without having to quit the game.
xoxo
"The Lord loosed upon them his fierce anger
All of his fury and rage.
He dispatched against them a band of Avenging Angels"
- The Scriptures, Book II, Apocalypse 10:1
DIDE- is open to new members
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Sentamon
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
2341
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Posted - 2016.04.10 17:36:00 -
[827] - Quote
If your goal is to get people to log in daily then daily events with rich rewards are much better.
Personally would love to see more NPC Empire vs Empire action that players can take part in, because with all due respect to the Player vs Player nullsec crowd, we all have learned from countless examples that your primary goal is boredom and monetizing EVE in approved and not so approved ways.
~ Professional Forum Alt -á~
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Lugh Crow-Slave
1852
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Posted - 2016.04.10 17:37:08 -
[828] - Quote
Amarisen Gream wrote:40+ pages.
As has been stated, there are tons of other features that need cleaned up, that are more important than a daily reward program for logging on.
But, if i have read enough, the consent is! WE DO NOT WANT DAILIES. This is EVE, not WoW or any other grind based MMO. So please, rethink this...
I know the OP was the stepping stone to more features built on this one. But, as has been stated, we have tons of features already that are half ***ed and not complete.
Put more man power on the Ghost fitting window, redoing the PVE combat experiences, being able to swap toons without having to quit the game.
xoxo
Wait you mean use game play to get ppl to log in not hand outs?
What are you mad?
One way to do it is implement your fw idea of letting individuals join fw without the entire corp
Citadel worm hole tax
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
27307
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Posted - 2016.04.10 17:42:53 -
[829] - Quote
Big Lynx wrote:Great BS. Nobody in the ENTIRE virtual and real world forces you to do the daily. There are simply no arguments against this. only salt and tears without a factual background. So much buttpain for 3mio SP per year (!) Grow up nerds. GǪexcept that you are being forced. There are no two ways about it. You have two options: one which rewards you in the most insane manner imaginable for accepting subpar gameplay; one where you forego said reward in exchange for the thing you actually want to do, which is bad for you.
This is not an actual choice. It's a form of coercion: do as we say, or suffer the consequences. The argument that you're not GÇ£forcedGÇ¥ was as pathetic and ignorant back when it was used to try to save the learning skills, and for much the same reason: because you had no sane or sensible choice but to do the one beneficial thing.
Just because you have a choice not to go along does not mean you're not being forced GÇö that's where the defenders of this retardation get it wrong. Let's draw it to an extreme: someone pulls a gun on you and tells you to give them all your money or they'll blow your knees off. Are you being forced? Yes. Every cogent and coherent (and legal) interpretation of the situation would classify this as you being forced, in spite of your having a choice. Because, again, choosing between two options where one is idiotic is not an actual choice; GÇ£you can choose not toGÇ¥ only works as an argument if choosing not to is a sensible choice to make. CCP has decided to force the issue by making the choice of non-participation to not be sensible.
Just like GÇ£you're not forced toGÇ¥ was a useless and wholly inaccurate argument for keeping learning skills, it is a useless and wholly inaccurate argument for implementing this nonsense because by the very nature of the coercion GÇö the fact that you have to give up a 20GÇô30% increase in number of training hours per day(!!) in order to play the sandbox your way rather than the way CCP demands you do GÇö you are being forced. |
Quisten
Dreieck
0
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Posted - 2016.04.10 17:54:50 -
[830] - Quote
I'm absolutely against the implementation this idea. For the same reasons as others have posted here before. I think I understand the motivation behind it, and I also have experience with other MMOs where dailies exist. I don't think they belong in EVE. |
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Lugh Crow-Slave
1853
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Posted - 2016.04.10 17:56:13 -
[831] - Quote
And for the people saying your should be rewarded for logging in more than the people who don't this idea is still bad
Say you can only log in on the week end but you spend 5 hrs a day so 10hrs a week
Yet I'm rewarded more than you because I log in two minutes every day are my 14 minuts a week better for the game than your 10hrs
Citadel worm hole tax
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Moac Tor
Cyber Core Stain Confederation
478
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Posted - 2016.04.10 17:57:33 -
[832] - Quote
Zoltan Cole wrote:Yet, the net whole is more players online. That's neat -- the game progression being mostly offline is an absolutely awful design for an MMO SP Progression happens offline, yet game progression certainly happens online (or at least online in the meta sense). Eve progression is a hard concept to grasp for most newbies, progression depends solely upon what goal you set yourself and not grinding towards some arbitrary level cap.
Modulated ECM Effects
An Alternative to Skill Trading
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Lugh Crow-Slave
1853
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Posted - 2016.04.10 18:00:53 -
[833] - Quote
Moac Tor wrote:Zoltan Cole wrote:Yet, the net whole is more players online. That's neat -- the game progression being mostly offline is an absolutely awful design for an MMO SP Progression happens offline, yet game progression certainly happens online (or at least online in the meta sense). Eve progression is a hard concept to grasp for most newbies, progression depends solely upon what goal you set yourself and not grinding towards some arbitrary level cap.
This exactly
Citadel worm hole tax
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Quisten
Dreieck
0
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Posted - 2016.04.10 18:04:42 -
[834] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:And for the people saying your should be rewarded for logging in more than the people who don't this idea is still bad
Say you can only log in on the week end but you spend 5 hrs a day so 10hrs a week
Yet I'm rewarded more than you because I log in two minutes every day are my 14 minuts a week better for the game than your 10hrs
I could probably accept if they rewarded ISK for these dailies, if they really wanted to make EVE more like WoW. But certainly not SP. |
Lugh Crow-Slave
1854
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Posted - 2016.04.10 18:10:41 -
[835] - Quote
Quisten wrote:Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:And for the people saying your should be rewarded for logging in more than the people who don't this idea is still bad
Say you can only log in on the week end but you spend 5 hrs a day so 10hrs a week
Yet I'm rewarded more than you because I log in two minutes every day are my 14 minuts a week better for the game than your 10hrs I could probably accept if they rewarded ISK for these dailies, if they really wanted to make EVE more like WoW. But certainly not SP.
Same
And considering the majority of new players I talk to have the sp to branch out but are to afraid to lose ships this would probably be better for them
And it would scale better if it was say 10 mil that's alot to a new bro and definitely worth logging in every day but after a few months you make 2x that in an hr letting you be free to do what you want without worrying about them
With SP the older you are the more the sp is worth do to the diminishing returns of skill injectors.
But this is not for new players this is fit ccps numbers
Citadel worm hole tax
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Kieron VonDeux
148
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Posted - 2016.04.10 18:18:02 -
[836] - Quote
Welcome to the End.
It was fun while it lasted.
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Lugh Crow-Slave
1854
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Posted - 2016.04.10 18:21:15 -
[837] - Quote
Kieron VonDeux wrote:Welcome to the End. It was fun while it lasted.
Lo eve won't end or just won't be what we enjoy it will be just shy other hand holding mmo
Citadel worm hole tax
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Tomika
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
21
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Posted - 2016.04.10 18:21:32 -
[838] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:Same
And considering the majority of new players I talk to have the sp to branch out but are to afraid to lose ships this would probably be better for them
And it would scale better if it was say 10 mil that's alot to a new bro and definitely worth logging in every day but after a few months you make 2x that in an hr letting you be free to do what you want without worrying about them
With SP the older you are the more the sp is worth do to the diminishing returns of skill injectors. The sp fir a vet is I worth 3x as much as it is for a new player But this is not for new players this is fit ccps numbers
55 posts you made already in this thread, and they're becoming increasingly illegible. Maybe it's time for a break? |
Lugh Crow-Slave
1855
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Posted - 2016.04.10 18:26:47 -
[839] - Quote
Tomika wrote:Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:Same
And considering the majority of new players I talk to have the sp to branch out but are to afraid to lose ships this would probably be better for them
And it would scale better if it was say 10 mil that's alot to a new bro and definitely worth logging in every day but after a few months you make 2x that in an hr letting you be free to do what you want without worrying about them
With SP the older you are the more the sp is worth do to the diminishing returns of skill injectors. The sp fir a vet is I worth 3x as much as it is for a new player But this is not for new players this is fit ccps numbers 55 posts you made already in this thread, and they're becoming increasingly illegible. Maybe it's time for a break?
Good sir out of the 55 there were far more illegible posts than this if you had the time to count then I'm sure you had the abulity to fir and quote a better one
Citadel worm hole tax
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Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
13886
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Posted - 2016.04.10 18:27:26 -
[840] - Quote
Kieron VonDeux wrote:Welcome to the End. It was fun while it lasted.
While funny, I'd like to point out how counter productive this is. EVERY time there is a change (good or bad) people start talking about the end of EVE and "minus a million accounts!!" and such. Eventually it has a 'crying wolf' affect on people, especially CCP.
Right now Rise and Co. are probably sitting back thinking "hmm, usual end of the world/game hurf blurf, that must mean the idea is fine". This is why I'm careful to say that a change is bad on it's one merits but it probably won't kill the game, like skill trading (which I continue to oppose).
Anger is natural but it doesn't serve to change the minds of the powers that be. Reason does (sometimes lol).
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