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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 5 post(s) |
Petrified
Old and Petrified Syndication TOG - The Older Gamers Alliance
373
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Posted - 2016.04.12 00:42:59 -
[1171] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:... So this leads us to where we are now, attempting to find ways to create more logins that also don't feel like such a punishment as the skill queue limitations did. This may not turn out to be the perfect alternative but that's what we're looking for.
Fair enough, but in this case you should simply restrict the SP delivery to the act of logging in itself. If, as you say, getting the player into the client is the goal, then tying it to an activity the player may or may not desire to engage in would fail.
So, some suggestions: 1 - Lose the 22 hour time period. That is simply dumb. Just have the Logon Reward reset every downtime. 2 - Lose the term daily. Restrict this to one event only: logging into the character. If the goal, as you state, is to reward people for logging in and, as you state, logging in itself under the old queue system resulted in more than just logging in, you don't need it tied to an activity. 3 - If you absolutely feel the need to tie it to an activity, then you need to not just implement this with NPC combat. The reward is granted for completing one of any designated activities: scanning an anomaly, blowing up an NPC, blowing up another player, creating a market order/purchase, starting an industry/research job, jumping through a wormhole/gate, etc.
But, above all, lose the 22 hour time period. Just tie it to down time as the reset period. You are making more work for yourselves and players with anything else.
Cloaking is the closest thing to a "Pause Game" button one can get while in space.
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Ligraph
Metallurgy Incorporated
9
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Posted - 2016.04.12 01:14:28 -
[1172] - Quote
The thing about the daily complaint: I've played daily games, it sucks, and I would never want to see this in eve. But, this isn't really dailies. It just rewards people for doing what they normally do, assuming people don't never kill rats. For this reason, I would like it to be a reward for industry or PvP or Rats.
Fuzzy cloaking
Wormhole Stabilizer citadels
Cloaky Fleet Transport
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Boe Harknes
Wounded Asteroid Management and Protection Squad Dredd - The Purification Project
9
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Posted - 2016.04.12 01:14:44 -
[1173] - Quote
i have to admit i do not like this idea. the obvious implications is we are now generating sp from now. another post already shows how this can easily be abused and used to farm skill points. I play this game because my progressive is set by time. not because inhave to grind dailies for progress. change it to LP or isk bonus but not skill points. |
Lugh Crow-Slave
1881
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Posted - 2016.04.12 01:35:30 -
[1174] - Quote
Ligraph wrote:The thing about the daily complaint: I've played daily games, it sucks, and I would never want to see this in eve. But, this isn't really dailies. It just rewards people for doing what they normally do, assuming people don't never kill rats. For this reason, I would like it to be a reward for industry or PvP or Rats.
most ppl are not upset with this in particular we are afraid ccp is using it to test something bigger and more intrusive
Citadel worm hole tax
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Rain6639
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3858
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Posted - 2016.04.12 01:37:59 -
[1175] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:Ligraph wrote:The thing about the daily complaint: I've played daily games, it sucks, and I would never want to see this in eve. But, this isn't really dailies. It just rewards people for doing what they normally do, assuming people don't never kill rats. For this reason, I would like it to be a reward for industry or PvP or Rats. most ppl are not upset with this in particular we are afraid ccp is using it to test something bigger and more intrusive no that was injectors. |
Masao Kurata
Many Much Mechanics
474
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Posted - 2016.04.12 01:38:42 -
[1176] - Quote
Pryce Caesar wrote:Can I assume that I have covered all the points that concern you?
No, their mechanics are actually incredibly imbalanced to say the least and completely broken when exploited to full effectiveness. I also literally do not care about null warfare, CCP has still given little reason for owning nullsec to matter except for penis comparison, especially since owning the new Jita market will be worth more than all of nullsec put together. |
Rain6639
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3858
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Posted - 2016.04.12 01:38:45 -
[1177] - Quote
just go with it |
Mikkal Rune
Ammatar Academy of Sciences
5
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Posted - 2016.04.12 01:47:28 -
[1178] - Quote
I disagree with this, for the reasons given here. |
Rain6639
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3858
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Posted - 2016.04.12 01:48:18 -
[1179] - Quote
Masao Kurata wrote:Pryce Caesar wrote:Can I assume that I have covered all the points that concern you? No, their mechanics are actually incredibly imbalanced to say the least and completely broken when exploited to full effectiveness. I also literally do not care about null warfare, CCP has still given little reason for owning nullsec to matter except for penis comparison, especially since owning the new Jita market will be worth more than all of nullsec put together. null-sec (the scope videos made me do it) is the one place where you get new spawns of rats as one dies. |
Masao Kurata
Many Much Mechanics
475
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Posted - 2016.04.12 01:57:08 -
[1180] - Quote
Rain6639 wrote:Masao Kurata wrote:Pryce Caesar wrote:Can I assume that I have covered all the points that concern you? No, their mechanics are actually incredibly imbalanced to say the least and completely broken when exploited to full effectiveness. I also literally do not care about null warfare, CCP has still given little reason for owning nullsec to matter except for penis comparison, especially since owning the new Jita market will be worth more than all of nullsec put together. null- sec (the scope videos made me do it) is the one place where you get new spawns of rats as one dies.
And ratting is miniscule compared to a cut of all Jita trade. This thread's not about citadels though. I'll be making posts about them soon. |
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Rain6639
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3858
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Posted - 2016.04.12 02:02:45 -
[1181] - Quote
my point is a daily 10k SP carrot is a buff to null sec |
Lugh Crow-Slave
1882
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Posted - 2016.04.12 02:16:49 -
[1182] - Quote
Rain6639 wrote:my point is a daily 10k SP carrot is a buff to null sec
not a buff to anything its a nerf to freedom
Citadel worm hole tax
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Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
3194
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Posted - 2016.04.12 02:25:25 -
[1183] - Quote
Jediseah Tophet wrote:I don't like the low bar for entry and/or the frequency of the activity. Having multiple goals achieved over a week might sound much more reasonable IMO than forcing a player to have to do a certain activity daily.
If you make it 7 activities over the course of a week it not only doesnt help CCP's log in numbers but also means the players who log in once a week have to spend that one day doing these 7 silly tasks to get their reward rather than doing what they want.
EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"
Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
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Rain6639
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3859
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Posted - 2016.04.12 02:36:16 -
[1184] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:Rain6639 wrote:my point is a daily 10k SP carrot is a buff to null sec not a buff to anything its a nerf to freedom dude. how do you think I feel about chasing entosis nodes. |
Lugh Crow-Slave
1882
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Posted - 2016.04.12 02:37:02 -
[1185] - Quote
Daichi Yamato wrote:Jediseah Tophet wrote:I don't like the low bar for entry and/or the frequency of the activity. Having multiple goals achieved over a week might sound much more reasonable IMO than forcing a player to have to do a certain activity daily. If you make it 7 activities over the course of a week it not only doesnt help CCP's log in numbers but also means the players who log in once a week have to spend that one day doing these 7 silly tasks to get their reward rather than doing what they want.
i still think the best compromise is
Quote: make them build so every day 1 rat adds to your counter but the counter never goes over 30
so say you cant log in for half a month when you do log in your counter is at 15/30 so you can go and kill 15 rats but if you stay logged off for a year its only 30/30 this still incentives logging on but its much more free for the player to do it
this would be a way to adapt dailies to fit your game rather than just copy past and jam it in
Citadel worm hole tax
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Amarisen Gream
Divine Demise Apocalypse Now.
246
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Posted - 2016.04.12 02:56:41 -
[1186] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:Daichi Yamato wrote:Jediseah Tophet wrote:I don't like the low bar for entry and/or the frequency of the activity. Having multiple goals achieved over a week might sound much more reasonable IMO than forcing a player to have to do a certain activity daily. If you make it 7 activities over the course of a week it not only doesnt help CCP's log in numbers but also means the players who log in once a week have to spend that one day doing these 7 silly tasks to get their reward rather than doing what they want. i still think the best compromise is Quote: make them build so every day 1 rat adds to your counter but the counter never goes over 30
so say you cant log in for half a month when you do log in your counter is at 15/30 so you can go and kill 15 rats but if you stay logged off for a year its only 30/30 this still incentives logging on but its much more free for the player to do it
this would be a way to adapt dailies to fit your game rather than just copy past and jam it in
Have to say, I agree with this compromise. At least i won't be peeing on any shoes this way.
"The Lord loosed upon them his fierce anger
All of his fury and rage.
He dispatched against them a band of Avenging Angels"
- The Scriptures, Book II, Apocalypse 10:1
DIDE- is open to new members
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Chjna
the Goose Flock
20
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Posted - 2016.04.12 03:50:13 -
[1187] - Quote
To be compleatly honest most of us do not care if the game suddenly get more people logging in, if they not provide content and interact with the rest of us. Sure some will logg in with this as a reason and then stay on and do some other stuff. The main bulk of the allready active players will feel forced to spend time on this kind of pointless gameplay and have less time over for interacting with the rest of us.
The game have a couple of mecanics that pushes people to log AND interact with the rest of us without feeling forced like this.
Some examples would be:
--- PvP --- Forming for timers in wars.
--- Industry --- Keep your production lines full.
Getting your auctions for teams and move to where good ones land... ops you removed a great one, smart move.
--- Market --- Updating your orders.
Refill empty orders.
This kind of stimulation is a integrated part of the game and the playerbase will not complain. You do not feel that your freedom is taken from you. It is tied to a path you chose to take.
Stuff that make us not want to log in is a stagnant game. Capsuleers are working hard right now to remove the biggest reason to this. First after the downfall of a certan entety, can we hope for a more active and intresting game.
Remove T2 BPOs
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Lugh Crow-Slave
1886
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Posted - 2016.04.12 03:53:23 -
[1188] - Quote
Chjna wrote:To be compleatly honest most of us do not care if the game suddenly get more people logging in, if they not provide content and interact with the rest of us. Sure some will logg in with this as a reason and then stay on and do some other stuff. The main bulk of the allready active players will feel forced to spend time on this kind of pointless gameplay and have less time over for interacting with the rest of us.
The game have a couple of mecanics that pushes people to log AND interact with the rest of us without feeling forced like this.
Some examples would be:
--- PvP --- Forming for timers in wars.
--- Industry --- Keep your production lines full.
Getting your auctions for teams and move to where good ones land... ops you removed a great one, smart move.
--- Market --- Updating your orders.
Refill empty orders.
This kind of stimulation is a integrated part of the game and the playerbase will not complain. You do not feel that your freedom is taken from you. It is tied to a path you chose to take.
Stuff that make us not want to log in is a stagnant game. Capsuleers are working hard right now to remove the biggest reason to this. First after the downfall of a certan entety, can we hope for a more active and intresting game.
Not that your point isn't valid but uhh..... teams don't exist
Citadel worm hole tax
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Vic Jefferson
Stimulus Rote Kapelle
988
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Posted - 2016.04.12 03:59:29 -
[1189] - Quote
The rat kill is the silliest part of this. They already know very much about the 'Leveling a Raven' syndrome, so why are they feeding it?
Joining player corp and staying in it for lengths of time? Now that is something that generates content, and gets people drawn into the game and its goings on.
Don't feed the Raven.
Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM XI
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Lugh Crow-Slave
1886
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Posted - 2016.04.12 04:11:09 -
[1190] - Quote
Vic Jefferson wrote:The rat kill is the silliest part of this. They already know very much about the 'Leveling a Raven' syndrome, so why are they feeding it?
Joining player corp and staying in it for lengths of time? Now that is something that generates content, and gets people drawn into the game and its goings on.
Don't feed the Raven.
CCP is bad when they try to be clever you know not what you ate asking
Citadel worm hole tax
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Chjna
the Goose Flock
20
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Posted - 2016.04.12 04:11:10 -
[1191] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:Chjna wrote:To be compleatly honest most of us do not care if the game suddenly get more people logging in, if they not provide content and interact with the rest of us. Sure some will logg in with this as a reason and then stay on and do some other stuff. The main bulk of the allready active players will feel forced to spend time on this kind of pointless gameplay and have less time over for interacting with the rest of us.
The game have a couple of mecanics that pushes people to log AND interact with the rest of us without feeling forced like this.
Some examples would be:
--- PvP --- Forming for timers in wars.
--- Industry --- Keep your production lines full.
Getting your auctions for teams and move to where good ones land... ops you removed a great one, smart move.
--- Market --- Updating your orders.
Refill empty orders.
This kind of stimulation is a integrated part of the game and the playerbase will not complain. You do not feel that your freedom is taken from you. It is tied to a path you chose to take.
Stuff that make us not want to log in is a stagnant game. Capsuleers are working hard right now to remove the biggest reason to this. First after the downfall of a certan entety, can we hope for a more active and intresting game. Not that your point isn't valid but uhh..... teams don't exist
Care to read that line again? :P
Remove T2 BPOs
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Lugh Crow-Slave
1886
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Posted - 2016.04.12 04:24:12 -
[1192] - Quote
Chjna wrote:Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:Chjna wrote:To be compleatly honest most of us do not care if the game suddenly get more people logging in, if they not provide content and interact with the rest of us. Sure some will logg in with this as a reason and then stay on and do some other stuff. The main bulk of the allready active players will feel forced to spend time on this kind of pointless gameplay and have less time over for interacting with the rest of us.
The game have a couple of mecanics that pushes people to log AND interact with the rest of us without feeling forced like this.
Some examples would be:
--- PvP --- Forming for timers in wars.
--- Industry --- Keep your production lines full.
Getting your auctions for teams and move to where good ones land... ops you removed a great one, smart move.
--- Market --- Updating your orders.
Refill empty orders.
This kind of stimulation is a integrated part of the game and the playerbase will not complain. You do not feel that your freedom is taken from you. It is tied to a path you chose to take.
Stuff that make us not want to log in is a stagnant game. Capsuleers are working hard right now to remove the biggest reason to this. First after the downfall of a certan entety, can we hope for a more active and intresting game. Not that your point isn't valid but uhh..... teams don't exist Care to read that line again? :P
My bad 4am and it stung a bit as I think they had great potential
Citadel worm hole tax
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Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
1119
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Posted - 2016.04.12 05:02:41 -
[1193] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:Why Dailies? So first lets talk a little history. EVE had a daily logon incentive for most of it's existence: the 24 hour skill queue limit. Back in Phoebe, we removed those limitations. Now, at the time, we were of two minds internally. We didn't like the experience around being punished for not logging in to update your queue, but also knew that some of those logins might be leading to meaningful gameplay and we shouldn't lightly let go of them. We leaned to the side of a better experience and removed the limitations, hoping that the logins we were generating were fairly empty, rarely leading to more actual activity in the universe. Well, it turns out we were wrong about that. Now, with before and after data we can see that making it into the client is a huge step towards real activity, even if the reason for logging in in the first place seems artificial. So this leads us to where we are now, attempting to find ways to create more logins that also don't feel like such a punishment as the skill queue limitations did. This may not turn out to be the perfect alternative but that's what we're looking for.
Thanks for the laugh.
Remove insurance.
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Lugh Crow-Slave
1886
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Posted - 2016.04.12 05:06:01 -
[1194] - Quote
Mara Pahrdi wrote:CCP Rise wrote:Why Dailies? So first lets talk a little history. EVE had a daily logon incentive for most of it's existence: the 24 hour skill queue limit. Back in Phoebe, we removed those limitations. Now, at the time, we were of two minds internally. We didn't like the experience around being punished for not logging in to update your queue, but also knew that some of those logins might be leading to meaningful gameplay and we shouldn't lightly let go of them. We leaned to the side of a better experience and removed the limitations, hoping that the logins we were generating were fairly empty, rarely leading to more actual activity in the universe. Well, it turns out we were wrong about that. Now, with before and after data we can see that making it into the client is a huge step towards real activity, even if the reason for logging in in the first place seems artificial. So this leads us to where we are now, attempting to find ways to create more logins that also don't feel like such a punishment as the skill queue limitations did. This may not turn out to be the perfect alternative but that's what we're looking for.
Thanks for the laugh.
I feel like if this was true they would just reverse the change done to the queue
Citadel worm hole tax
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Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
1120
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Posted - 2016.04.12 05:28:06 -
[1195] - Quote
Erihn Sabrovich wrote:EVE mechanics are quite difficult to understand, which may be a big turn off to new players... But it's not the only turn off... (and somehow, that turn off is quite a good thing as it somehow protect us from "kiddies")
Not really. It's more the amount of different mechanics that is challenging for a new player. And while Blizzard has been abolishing game mechanics over time to reduce complexity, CCP went the other way.
Remove insurance.
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Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
1120
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Posted - 2016.04.12 05:34:28 -
[1196] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:Mara Pahrdi wrote:CCP Rise wrote:Why Dailies? So first lets talk a little history. EVE had a daily logon incentive for most of it's existence: the 24 hour skill queue limit. Back in Phoebe, we removed those limitations. Now, at the time, we were of two minds internally. We didn't like the experience around being punished for not logging in to update your queue, but also knew that some of those logins might be leading to meaningful gameplay and we shouldn't lightly let go of them. We leaned to the side of a better experience and removed the limitations, hoping that the logins we were generating were fairly empty, rarely leading to more actual activity in the universe. Well, it turns out we were wrong about that. Now, with before and after data we can see that making it into the client is a huge step towards real activity, even if the reason for logging in in the first place seems artificial. So this leads us to where we are now, attempting to find ways to create more logins that also don't feel like such a punishment as the skill queue limitations did. This may not turn out to be the perfect alternative but that's what we're looking for.
Thanks for the laugh. I feel like if this was true they would just reverse the change done to the queue Well, hard to do that with this kind of feature.
Remove insurance.
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Lugh Crow-Slave
1887
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Posted - 2016.04.12 05:34:59 -
[1197] - Quote
Mara Pahrdi wrote:Erihn Sabrovich wrote:EVE mechanics are quite difficult to understand, which may be a big turn off to new players... But it's not the only turn off... (and somehow, that turn off is quite a good thing as it somehow protect us from "kiddies")
Not really. It's more the amount of different mechanics that is challenging for a new player. And while Blizzard has been abolishing game mechanics over time to reduce complexity, CCP went the other way.
It's not good that it protects is from kiddies That is just the nessesary evil that comes with the level of depth and freedom in the game mechanics
Citadel worm hole tax
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Lugh Crow-Slave
1887
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Posted - 2016.04.12 05:36:39 -
[1198] - Quote
Mara Pahrdi wrote:Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:Mara Pahrdi wrote:CCP Rise wrote:Why Dailies? So first lets talk a little history. EVE had a daily logon incentive for most of it's existence: the 24 hour skill queue limit. Back in Phoebe, we removed those limitations. Now, at the time, we were of two minds internally. We didn't like the experience around being punished for not logging in to update your queue, but also knew that some of those logins might be leading to meaningful gameplay and we shouldn't lightly let go of them. We leaned to the side of a better experience and removed the limitations, hoping that the logins we were generating were fairly empty, rarely leading to more actual activity in the universe. Well, it turns out we were wrong about that. Now, with before and after data we can see that making it into the client is a huge step towards real activity, even if the reason for logging in in the first place seems artificial. So this leads us to where we are now, attempting to find ways to create more logins that also don't feel like such a punishment as the skill queue limitations did. This may not turn out to be the perfect alternative but that's what we're looking for.
Thanks for the laugh. I feel like if this was true they would just reverse the change done to the queue Well, hard to do that with this kind of feature.
Not really just make it impossable to add a skill to a queue that currently extends past 24hr
Of you mean do to the back lash it would be just as bad or smaller than it is with dailies
Citadel worm hole tax
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Mikkal Rune
Ammatar Academy of Sciences
7
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Posted - 2016.04.12 06:19:23 -
[1199] - Quote
This post (which I've already linked once, but having read the entire thread, it really is the most coherent and cogent) already said everything really necessary (especially the bit where she points out that RiseGÇÖs funny ideas about what we all should be doing in New Eden are "utterly and completely irrelevant" ), but GÇô now that it's evening and I've had a glass of wine or two GÇô where the hell has CCP's artistic integrity gone these days? Game releases of Eve Online used to be about testing and extending the limits of the sandbox, providing challenging new things to do, more complexity to master, new reasons to HTFU. Eve was a work of art, with CCP creating an increasingly sophisticated dystopian image of a future society and letting it play out in the interactions of players with the environment and with each other. There was an artistic concept, a vision behind it all.
To judge by his recent ideas, that vision doesn't interest Rise in the slightest. In fact, I doubt he has ever understood it. This new "improvement" is like a painter deciding to offer people $5 to look at his painting. If the painting was at all good, people would look at it without having to be given special incentives. But that's all beyond Rise. All he can imagine is offering carrots. It will make more people log in each day, so it must be good, right? In my view that's an admission of total intellectual bankrupcy.
In any case, my sub comes up for renewal in the summer. Or not. Currently more likely not. |
Lugh Crow-Slave
1887
|
Posted - 2016.04.12 06:29:49 -
[1200] - Quote
Mikkal Rune wrote:This post (which I've already linked once, but having read the entire thread, it really is the most coherent and cogent) already said everything really necessary (especially the bit where she points out that RiseGÇÖs funny ideas about what we all should be doing in New Eden are "utterly and completely irrelevant" ), but GÇô now that it's evening and I've had a glass of wine or two GÇô where the hell has CCP's artistic integrity gone these days? Game releases of Eve Online used to be about testing and extending the limits of the sandbox, providing challenging new things to do, more complexity to master, new reasons to HTFU. Eve was a work of art, with CCP creating an increasingly sophisticated dystopian image of a future society and letting it play out in the interactions of players with the environment and with each other. There was an artistic concept, a vision behind it all. To judge by his recent ideas, that vision doesn't interest Rise in the slightest. In fact, I doubt he has ever understood it. This new "improvement" is like a painter deciding to offer people $5 to look at his painting. If the painting was at all good, people would look at it without having to be given special incentives. But that's all beyond Rise. All he can imagine is offering carrots. It will make more people log in each day, so it must be good, right? In my view that's an admission of total intellectual bankrupcy. In any case, my sub comes up for renewal in the summer. Or not. Currently more likely not.
As people have pointed out in doubt this is rises idea he just got stuck being the messenger I would look more to someone like seagull to put your blame onto
Citadel worm hole tax
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