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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 5 post(s)

CCP Rise C C P C C P Alliance 5453	Posted - 2016.04.08 15:45:19 - [1] - Quote Hi I'm here to give you guys a heads up that sometime early next week a small daily activity reward feature will be hitting Singularity and will hopefully be making its way to TQ sometime just after Citadel. As you guys surely know, having people in game and in space is great and we want to start promoting and rewarding activity a little more directly. The version of the feature we are planning to deploy first will be a simple 10,000 skill point reward that a character will receive the first time they kill an NPC ship every 22 hours. The skillpoints will go into your unallocated pool to be used however you like. You will find the status of your daily skill boost in the Opportunities info panel and you will also receive notifications to let you know when it becomes available. That's it for now. If this goes well we hope to expand in several ways, but more on that later! Feedback appreciate as always, CCP Rise for Team Size Matters @ccp_rise

Syrias Bizniz Zebra Corp Goonswarm Federation 440	Posted - 2016.04.08 16:07:10 - [2] - Quote Nice! That's up to: 3,981,818 SP per year according to my preschool math skills. I like it. A lot.
Advenat Bedala Facehoof Out of Sight. 4	Posted - 2016.04.08 16:23:38 - [3] - Quote No. Just No.
Syrias Bizniz Zebra Corp Goonswarm Federation 440	Posted - 2016.04.08 16:25:54 - [4] - Quote Advenat Bedala wrote: No. Just No. Any reasons, or just ... denial?
Archeras Umangiar CRY.NET Nihilists Social Club 29	Posted - 2016.04.08 16:27:24 - [5] - Quote Ok. (**** NO)
eiedu Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation 18	Posted - 2016.04.08 16:27:41 - [6] - Quote April fools was last week, you're late.
Michal Jita Angels of D00M Maskhal Alliance 28	Posted - 2016.04.08 16:28:53 - [7] - Quote Just to double clarify, this is per character NOT per account? Mixed feelings either way as SP has always been a contentious issue, and skill injectors have only exagarated?
FT Diomedes The Graduates 2392	Posted - 2016.04.08 16:31:29 - [8] - Quote Please, no. This idea is just plain bad. CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.
Savant Alabel Raging Angels Pure Blind Cartel 47	Posted - 2016.04.08 16:33:41 - [9] - Quote I suggest to add SP for killing 1 or more player ship. Carebears must suffer.
Altrue Exploration Frontier inc 2006	Posted - 2016.04.08 16:34:44 - [10] - Quote Hmm, why not. How big does the NPC have to be though? I'd never turn down free stuff, but as the idea stands right now, that kind of daily reward isn't encouraging any meaningful gameplay. if you want to do rewards for active players, a veteran reward system with unique cosmetic rewards directly unlocked into the account would be so much better. Signature Tanking Best Tanking Retired Exploration Frontier Inc [Ex-F] CEO - Ex-BRAVE - Eve-guides.fr
Sansa Vaquesh Your Loss Dead Terrorists 15	Posted - 2016.04.08 16:38:36 - [11] - Quote pls nooo! thats eve, not just a random mainstream mmorpg
Scotsman Howard S0utherN Comfort Circle-Of-Two 97	Posted - 2016.04.08 16:41:48 - [12] - Quote CCP Rise wrote: Hi As you guys surely know, having people in game and in space is great and we want to start promoting and rewarding activity a little more directly. The version of the feature we are planning to deploy first will be a simple 10,000 skill point reward that a character will receive the first time they kill an NPC ship every 22 hours. The skillpoints will go into your unallocated pool to be used however you like. CCP Rise for Team Size Matters Ok, before discussing whether or not these kinds of rewards is a good thing, can we get some clarification? The third one is key I think. - Is this per character or per account? - If a character that does not have an active skill training kills an NPC, do they skill get skill points? - Does this mean they have to get the final blow or is it like the bounty system where everyone gets a split of the points/bounty. (I know there are rules on this and I think it is the split is just between fleet members but not sure). Now lets do the math. Assumption for easy math is 2,000 skill points trained per hour by the character. Thus, each day, a player can get 2,000 * 24 + 10,000 sp for a total of 58,000. This effectively leads to a 17% increase in sp gained. This will shave off about 5 days of training a month. Not to overpowered, but still odd. However, it becomes a little more interesting when you allow for all characters to get it even if they cannot train a skill. Overall, I am not sure how I feel about it. I think my response will depend on the answer to the third question above.
Legion40k Hard Knocks Inc. Hard Knocks Citizens 102	Posted - 2016.04.08 16:43:48 - [13] - Quote I can see this being viable if this daily reward would apply to more professions than just shooting NPC's so, how about a reward for either killing an NPC, hacking a Data/Relic thingy or popping a rock?

CCP Rise C C P C C P Alliance 5453	Posted - 2016.04.08 16:45:26 - [14] - Quote For now it will be per character, even if they aren't actively training. "how about a reward for either killing an NPC, hacking a Data/Relic thingy or popping a rock?" - Likely one of the first ways we would look to expand in a follow-up release. @ccp_rise

Liam Inkuras AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse 1638	Posted - 2016.04.08 16:48:14 - [15] - Quote This is nice, I like this. I wear my goggles at night. Any spelling/grammatical errors come complimentary with my typing on a phone
Mena en Distel University of Caille Gallente Federation 1	Posted - 2016.04.08 16:49:51 - [16] - Quote NO WAY
Sentient Blade Crisis Atmosphere Coalition of the Unfortunate 1637	Posted - 2016.04.08 16:53:57 - [17] - Quote I personally have no problem with this, but doing it just for for killing an NPC, on launch, is a cop out... do it properly or not at all. * Killing NPCs * Mining * PVP * Interacting with the market or structures
captain foivos State War Academy Caldari State 286	Posted - 2016.04.08 16:54:50 - [18] - Quote April Fools was last week.
Bobb Bobbington Bros Before Holes The Devils' Rejects 203	Posted - 2016.04.08 16:56:36 - [19] - Quote First came the injectors, and people were okay with it. Next comes the daily reward, and people aren't up in arms. But what's next? SP on site completion? On pvp kills? By rationalizing and allowing small changes, even possibly good ones, you open the door for changes of increasing magnitude. Please. Don't let Eve become space WoW. This is a signature. It has a 25m signature. No it's not a cosmic signature. Probably. Btw my corp's recruiting.
Lucas Kell Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance 7451	Posted - 2016.04.08 16:56:49 - [20] - Quote Lol, dailies in EVE. It's so terrible, it's brilliant. Bobb Bobbington wrote: But what's next? SP on site completion? YES! +10 to this idea CCP. The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Dante deLio The xDEATHx Squadron Legion of xXDEATHXx 3	Posted - 2016.04.08 16:58:09 - [21] - Quote I suggest to give SP for killing ships in PvP either. Not in 22 hours but for each kill mail according to size of the ship was killed.
Scotsman Howard S0utherN Comfort Circle-Of-Two 97	Posted - 2016.04.08 16:58:13 - [22] - Quote Sentient Blade wrote: I personally have no problem with this, but doing it just for for killing an NPC, on launch, is a cop out... do it properly or not at all. * Killing NPCs * Mining * PVP * Exploration / Scanning * Interacting with the market or structures Agree with all except interact with the market. Scenerio: Someone puts up a bunch of useless items on the market for 100 isk and has alts buy them. Structures could work but would be hard to classify what counts.
Makoto Priano Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd. Arataka Research Consortium 8256	Posted - 2016.04.08 16:58:14 - [23] - Quote Huh. So-- this is the low bar test of the Tribute idea? Huh. Lore-wise, SP doesn't make quuiiite as much sense as CONCORD LP or ISK, but 10k SP is actually quite minor in the general course of things, though SP immediately hits the interest of players. Flip-side is that 'kill an NPC at all' is a pretty low bar to hit, and the original concept of tiered rewards was pretty nifty. Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
EvilweaselFinance BUTTECORP INC Goonswarm Federation 811	Posted - 2016.04.08 16:58:50 - [24] - Quote please count highsec miners as npcs as there are no meaningful differences between the two
Scotsman Howard S0utherN Comfort Circle-Of-Two 97	Posted - 2016.04.08 17:00:10 - [25] - Quote Dante deLio wrote: I suggest to give SP for killing ships in PvP either. Not in 22 hours but for each kill mail according to size of the ship was killed. This would be hard to judge though. Even if they made it so noob ships and shuttles do not count, people would just mass buy t1 frigs or ventures. 500K a day for 30 days is only 15 million isk for that investment. I would gladly pay 15 million isk a month for an extra 5 days worth of sp.
Sadleric Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 3	Posted - 2016.04.08 17:00:11 - [26] - Quote April 1st was seven days ago.
Elizabeth Reid corporation federal agents space Brothers of Tangra 0	Posted - 2016.04.08 17:00:13 - [27] - Quote Advenat Bedala wrote: No. Just No. Agree.
Dorijan Hoover Inc. Pandemic Legion 68	Posted - 2016.04.08 17:00:13 - [28] - Quote Let's add the worst feature of any MMO - daily chores - to EVE Online. What could possibly go wrong?
Niko Lorenzio United Eve Directorate 594	Posted - 2016.04.08 17:00:46 - [29] - Quote Welcome to World of Tanks folks. The CSM XI Election are now open until March 25th, 2016. Consider Niko Lorenzio for CSM XI. CSM matters, your voice matters, your vote matters!
Dante deLio The xDEATHx Squadron Legion of xXDEATHXx 3	Posted - 2016.04.08 17:02:03 - [30] - Quote Niko Lorenzio wrote: Welcome to World of Tanks folks. And what are WoT here for?
Rain6639 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3844	Posted - 2016.04.08 17:02:44 - [31] - Quote Finally we get XP the right way.
Elowenn Sevetica Transcending Imperium 0	Posted - 2016.04.08 17:04:17 - [32] - Quote Fantastic idea. I would suggest, to make it beneficial for newbros (because lets be real, like injectors, this is a potential catch up mechanic for them) - apply a similar scaling as used in Skill Injections. Maybe 20k per opportunity for a character under 1M SP and scale it down to 10. Or something like that. GIve newbros a reason to login and play daily in the early going and that will help retain them in the future. If too many people *** and complain, just cut off the opportunities at a certain level of SP, like 50M or whatever. So bittervets can ** off without having to worry about logging in daily.
CowQueen MMXII 20	Posted - 2016.04.08 17:05:49 - [33] - Quote Seriously? What do i get for doing pvp kills? How should someone who is living in some high class wormhole do this stuff? What do I get for having logged in without any extra incentive for almost six years on a daily basis? If such a mechanic existed when I started playing, I probably wouldn't have started playing at all. Moo! Uddersucker, moo!
Dante deLio The xDEATHx Squadron Legion of xXDEATHXx 3	Posted - 2016.04.08 17:06:35 - [34] - Quote I don't see nothing bad in this "present" 10k sp not for each kill of NPC but once per day and 10k SP is not so big bonus
Theophilas ElitistOps Pandemic Legion 47	Posted - 2016.04.08 17:06:38 - [35] - Quote WHERE DO YOU GUYS COME UP WITH THIS ****!?
Rain6639 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3844	Posted - 2016.04.08 17:06:53 - [36] - Quote Does it have to be an NPC, what about anyone in an NPC corp
Tritis Mentari GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 6	Posted - 2016.04.08 17:07:02 - [37] - Quote So what other ways do you envision us grinding XP? How much XP gain per rock mined? Per can hacked? Per Mission completed?
Captain Semper OEG Freedom Among the Stars 79	Posted - 2016.04.08 17:08:19 - [38] - Quote Dont like it. Becuase this SP will comes from NOWHERE For now the only way to increase SP in the EVE is training. And for this... Well... Farm NPC get SP... Very bad and not "Spirit of EvE". I realy dont want see this in the game.
Tyranis Marcus Bloody Heathens 1507	Posted - 2016.04.08 17:09:06 - [39] - Quote Inb4 Rivendell expansion pack. And will Orcs ever become a playable race? Do not run. We are your friends.
Kibmatar Na'Vi. DURA LEXX 7	Posted - 2016.04.08 17:10:04 - [40] - Quote Experience by killings NPC's :))) Well now sp starts to appear from nowhere, unexpectedly Soon it is going to be: undock and get 1000sp, warp to gate and get 1000sp, kill a hundreed of keltirs on the plain and get sp Mmorpg :D Dont want to see in my lovely game issues, that is disgasting for me in other games
Sadleric Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 4	Posted - 2016.04.08 17:11:21 - [41] - Quote Rise, you should know by this point that such a radical change as creating an activity-based XP system needs to be introduced in a well-written post explaining the game design principles behind it. It is debatable whether 10,000XP is much more than a token value, but it's a matter of principle for a lot of people who think of EvE as outside or above the daily quest grind design of MMOs. You can't just shotgun this through with a six-sentence nothing of a post and not expect a backlash. Will a more detailed and thoughtful explanation be coming down the pipe?
Makoto Priano Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd. Arataka Research Consortium 8256	Posted - 2016.04.08 17:11:31 - [42] - Quote My hope is that this isn't a step toward grindy XP-through-action stuff. The original concept was tiered ISK-based rewards for clearing missions, anoms, incursion sites, signatures, etc; for instance, a high-class WH anom and an incursion site would be high-tier, and you'd get an ISK bump for it, and all lower-tier bonuses as well. In that form, ISK instead of SP, it's a nice daily bump to get people out into space and doing stuff more often, providing something to shoot at for others. In this form, it's a low bar, supremely-basic XP-for-grind that can be triggered with a single highsec belt rat. If we were to marry the two systems (low-tier XP bumps and high-tier ISK or LP bumps), then I'd be more interested, because then it'd nudge people in the direction of completing higher-tier PvE, which usually requires greater exposure to risk. Wouldn't be surprised if there were inflation issues with the original design, though... Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
Tokyo Drifter School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 3	Posted - 2016.04.08 17:12:49 - [43] - Quote Now we get f***** daily quests. I wish I could spam this emoji since this is the kind used by the crowd you seem to cater to these days. Casual redditors are a plague.
FT Diomedes The Graduates 2395	Posted - 2016.04.08 17:13:16 - [44] - Quote CCP Rise wrote: For now it will be per character, even if they aren't actively training. "how about a reward for either killing an NPC, hacking a Data/Relic thingy or popping a rock?" - Likely one of the first ways we would look to expand in a follow-up release. So, you think it is good gameplay if I log in every cyno alt once a day, to pop one rat? That sounds like a horrible grind, but an extra 300,000 SP per month per character is nothing to ignore. That's 900,000 SP per account per month (effectively a 50% bonus to SP/account) For nine years, I have enjoyed Eve as a game I didn't have to grind in order to improve my characters. This changes that completely. Please don't do this, especially not per character. CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.
Vardec Crom Enlightened Industries Goonswarm Federation 9	Posted - 2016.04.08 17:13:20 - [45] - Quote If you're looking for actually feedback on this I think what newer players need more than skill points is ISK, so to keep with your idea, you could have a "bonus bounty" once per day, like 10 mil, 5 mil, 20 mil, I don't know. I didn't mind skill injectors because they don't actually increase the net sp in the game, but this is handing out millions of sp a year to everybody, not a big fan.
Sethsa Dufresnes NO MORE GUN GAMES Dangerous Voltage 0	Posted - 2016.04.08 17:13:58 - [46] - Quote ..........................................O_o........ CCP Rise - eve not stupid korean mmo !!!!!! What you doing ? Then we will have 10k sp for first kill in week ? After 100k sp for first kiil Nyx ? For first Avatar kill 1 mil sp ? What next ? Maybe 10kkk isk for first mounth login ? STOP PLS !!!!!!!
Combat Wombatz Bearded BattleBears I N F A M O U S 26	Posted - 2016.04.08 17:14:01 - [47] - Quote Agreed that a more well-thought-out post should be made which discusses as many facets of this as possible. Also, I think a much better metric for activity than "kill one rat" would be "spend at least one hour undocked and uncloaked."
Karer II Legion of xXDEATHXx Support Legion of xXDEATHXx 501	Posted - 2016.04.08 17:15:28 - [48] - Quote Marketing such marketing. - Look, mam, online is growing. - But why? - Doesn't matter. It's growing. - Well done! We are success company.
Vitalius D'Fox Siberian Squad LowSechnaya Sholupen 6	Posted - 2016.04.08 17:15:36 - [49] - Quote New daily events: kill the npc - 10k sp scan the wormhole - 3k sp enter the gate - 0,5k sp mine veldspar - 3k sp steal corporate assets - 2k sp (from russian forum) In my opinion it will not bring back players who already left and will not attract new players. but I can be sure it will angry most of them who is still there. EVE is not like another mmorpg and you can't use same way to attract people. And especialy not a low budget browser type mmo way. Want to make eve better? Make it INTERESTING. Do not buy players with sp.
Dante deLio The xDEATHx Squadron Legion of xXDEATHXx 3	Posted - 2016.04.08 17:15:53 - [50] - Quote Vardec Crom wrote: If you're actually looking for feedback on this I think what newer players need more than skill points is ISK, so to keep with your idea, you could have a "bonus bounty" once per day, like 10 mil, 5 mil, 20 mil, I don't know. I didn't mind skill injectors because they don't actually increase the net sp in the game, but this is handing out millions of sp a year to everybody, not a big fan. Anyone can give you ISK, but noone can give you SP
Xenuria 1080	Posted - 2016.04.08 17:16:59 - [51] - Quote CCP Rise wrote: Hi I'm here to give you guys a heads up that sometime early next week a small daily activity reward feature will be hitting Singularity and will hopefully be making its way to TQ sometime just after Citadel. As you guys surely know, having people in game and in space is great and we want to start promoting and rewarding activity a little more directly. The version of the feature we are planning to deploy first will be a simple 10,000 skill point reward that a character will receive the first time they kill an NPC ship every 22 hours. The skillpoints will go into your unallocated pool to be used however you like. You will find the status of your daily skill boost in the Opportunities info panel and you will also receive notifications to let you know when it becomes available. That's it for now. If this goes well we hope to expand in several ways, but more on that later! Feedback appreciate as always, CCP Rise for Team Size Matters Do NPCs in missions count towards this? CSM 11 Candidate
Dante deLio The xDEATHx Squadron Legion of xXDEATHXx 3	Posted - 2016.04.08 17:19:31 - [52] - Quote And what you guys do mean - "from nowhere" they appear? When you use injectors that supposed to be 500k SP but 300k only is given - 200k SP goes nowhere too
Was Clear You Barely Undocked Your Ship 0	Posted - 2016.04.08 17:19:48 - [53] - Quote Why not have it grant aurum? Those skins would be on a lot more ships.
Sadleric Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 4	Posted - 2016.04.08 17:21:02 - [54] - Quote 1 SP / Ship Spin. Do it.
Anhenka Infinite Point Violence of Action. 1635	Posted - 2016.04.08 17:21:25 - [55] - Quote Please don't.
Captain Semper OEG Freedom Among the Stars 79	Posted - 2016.04.08 17:22:32 - [56] - Quote Dante deLio wrote: And what you guys do mean - "from nowhere" they appear? When you use injectors that supposed to be 500k SP but 300k only is given - 200k SP goes nowhere too You need ANOTHER PLAYER to creat a injector. And this PLAYER had training this SP as other players.
Strange Shadow Hedion University Amarr Empire 69	Posted - 2016.04.08 17:22:46 - [57] - Quote Idea is solid, especially when other (more or less complex) conditions will be added, with different timers and rewards. But for this one simple condition, reward seems to be too high, especially if you plan add more of such conditions. Average SP gain per hour on average char is about 2000 SP per hour at current rates. For simple "kill any NPC daily" challenge more appropriate reward would be like 500-1000 SP. For 10.000 SP it should be more like "complete any lvl5 mission in lowsec" or something like "kill this special capital NPC". Something that requires actual risk and effort, otherwise the reward wont looks earned and becomes farm instead.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 27204	Posted - 2016.04.08 17:28:03 - [58] - Quote Ok. Bye. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.3 - Vanguard Edition.
Gospadin Bastard Children of Poinen Grumpy Space Bastards 254	Posted - 2016.04.08 17:28:37 - [59] - Quote FT Diomedes wrote: For nine years, I have enjoyed Eve as a game I didn't have to grind in order to improve my characters. This changes that completely. Please don't do this, especially not per character. You don't have to do anything to improve your characters. They're not eliminating normal skillpoint accrual. For most of us in +5 pods with optimal attributes, it's about 15% difference. For rookies just starting out, it's 30% or more.
PavlikX Rezeda Core Rezeda Regnum 123	Posted - 2016.04.08 17:29:15 - [60] - Quote I can understand small reward for on-line activity (for example 1 kSP for each 100mils of PvE bounty, or 1 SP to each 10 damage point done in PvP action and so on) but mechanics when you kill 1 (one) NPC ship per day to grant 10 kSP.... Well, it's weird.
Darkblad 441	Posted - 2016.04.08 17:29:27 - [61] - Quote Well, a hint for that feature was available a while ago on the very. useful. and. always. true. updates site. NPE-ISD-Übersetzt!
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 696	Posted - 2016.04.08 17:29:46 - [62] - Quote Xenuria wrote: Do NPCs in missions count towards this? I don't think so. I do believe you actually have to make some effort to find a specific rat / npc to be able to gain the skillpoint award. And that's perfectly fine in my opinion if it will be that way. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Hra Neuvosto FinFleet Northern Coalition. 374	Posted - 2016.04.08 17:30:06 - [63] - Quote I like free SP as much as the next guy but dailys don't fit EVE at all in my opinion.
Poopicus Butts Naliao Inc. Test Alliance Please Ignore 15	Posted - 2016.04.08 17:31:33 - [64] - Quote Are you nerds seriously complaining over free SP
Gospadin Bastard Children of Poinen Grumpy Space Bastards 254	Posted - 2016.04.08 17:31:34 - [65] - Quote Strange Shadow wrote: Idea is solid, especially when other (more or less complex) conditions will be added, with different timers and rewards. But for this one simple condition, reward seems to be too high, especially if you plan add more of such conditions. Average SP gain per hour on average char is about 2000 SP per hour at current rates. For simple "kill any NPC daily" challenge more appropriate reward would be like 500-1000 SP. For 10.000 SP it should be more like "complete any lvl5 mission in lowsec" or something like "kill this special capital NPC". Something that requires actual risk and effort, otherwise the reward wont looks earned and becomes farm instead. You get 50k for sitting on your butt in every 24 hour period with balanced attributes and a cheap pod. I believe a lot of this is to keep newbies from recognizing, as soon as they put their first level 5 skill in the queue, that they can just log out for a few days and wait til it's done. Logging out of EVE becomes habit forming. Especially because with their low skills and capitalization, the reward of venture mining or level 2 security missions isn't worth the effort. With a modest boost to skill accrual, it keeps a few more pilots visible in the universe, which makes it more alive for everyone. Edit: And that "aliveness" is what keeps players around, IMO.
Makoto Priano Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd. Arataka Research Consortium 8256	Posted - 2016.04.08 17:31:39 - [66] - Quote Darkblad; sure, but original concept wasn't SP. ;) That said, Rise: my solution. Don't give SP. Instead, give Society of Conscious Thought LP. They don't have any agents, so no other source of it. You then use the SoCT LP store for rewards, which you can rotate or adjust easily. This gives a storyline basis for SP ('micro-injectors,' thanks Gorion), for why this new push is underway (SoCT loves the egg), and you can also provide other rewards. Further, if it's a marketable good in an LP store, you can get interdiction, market trading, etc. If you're worried about the only source of these being Geminate, you could post a few more SoCT stations in various places, like, say, CONCORD sovereignty? Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
Axhind Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation 102	Posted - 2016.04.08 17:31:59 - [67] - Quote Wow. New low for CCP. How about you make it free to play before messing it all up? EVE is already demanding game, now you propose to make it forced logging in of every char every day to not lose out on the bonus. Yea, forcing (or at least strongly pushing) people to play your game is for sure never going to backfire. Haven't yea learned anything from all those failed MMOs?
Scatim Helicon GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3379	Posted - 2016.04.08 17:32:20 - [68] - Quote You could try making a game that your playerbase wants to log in for, rather than having to bribe them with SP. Hell, here's a completely crazy idea, you could make NPCs challenging and interesting to fight rather than something to be farmed en masse in your sleep. (you won't do either of these things) Post on the Eve-o forums with a Goonswarm Federation character that drinking bleach is bad for you, and 20 forum warriors will hospitalise themselves trying to prove you wrong.
Tefnut' Ra Nomen-illis-Legio Legion of xXDEATHXx 0	Posted - 2016.04.08 17:32:37 - [69] - Quote I like the idea! Because too many people never undock from jita!
Captain Semper OEG Freedom Among the Stars 79	Posted - 2016.04.08 17:32:45 - [70] - Quote Gospadin wrote: FT Diomedes wrote: For nine years, I have enjoyed Eve as a game I didn't have to grind in order to improve my characters. This changes that completely. Please don't do this, especially not per character. You don't have to do anything to improve your characters. They're not eliminating normal skillpoint accrual. For most of us in +5 pods with optimal attributes, it's about 15% difference. For rookies just starting out, it's 30% or more. Yes but that was the PLAN "Our game will be different then other MMO. Grind willnot improve you character. The only way that you can get SP is time." And now RISE just trash it... I know that it have very small affection on the gameplay. But its and IDEA! And what next realy? Kill nyx NPC get 100k SP?
X4m AirGuard LowSechnaya Sholupen 114	Posted - 2016.04.08 17:33:46 - [71] - Quote Daily Opportunites = good SP as reward = bad
captain foivos State War Academy Caldari State 288	Posted - 2016.04.08 17:34:26 - [72] - Quote gotta boost those daily log-in numbers to fool investors
Tokyo Drifter School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 4	Posted - 2016.04.08 17:34:35 - [73] - Quote Poopicus Butts wrote: Are you nerds seriously complaining over free SP TEST babby is happy about free SP why am I not surprised I am sure you vote Bernie because he will pay for your PLEX too
Gospadin Bastard Children of Poinen Grumpy Space Bastards 254	Posted - 2016.04.08 17:36:36 - [74] - Quote Captain Semper wrote: Gospadin wrote: FT Diomedes wrote: For nine years, I have enjoyed Eve as a game I didn't have to grind in order to improve my characters. This changes that completely. Please don't do this, especially not per character. You don't have to do anything to improve your characters. They're not eliminating normal skillpoint accrual. For most of us in +5 pods with optimal attributes, it's about 15% difference. For rookies just starting out, it's 30% or more. Yes but that was the PLAN "Our game will be different then other MMO. Grind willnot improve you character. The only way that you can get SP is time." And now RISE just trash it... I know that it have very small affection on the gameplay. But its and IDEA! And what next realy? Kill nyx NPC get 100k SP? How is "login 15 times to kill NPCs" materially different than "kill one DED boss, sell loot, buy injector" ? Those are both grinding for SP.
Delilah Albertis School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 0	Posted - 2016.04.08 17:36:50 - [75] - Quote Tokyo Drifter wrote: Now we get f*** daily quests. I wish I could spam this emoji since this is the kind used by the crowd you seem to cater to these days. Casual redditors are a plague. Nothing wrong with gettin some casual action to fit my casual lifestyle! Bring on the goods! Advenat Bedala wrote:** No. Just No. Please, enlighten us more on your informed opinion. I've gained so much insight from your bandwagoned internet jargon that you're bound to sway a few others if you added a few more gems such as "This." and "Right in the feels." You'd have the developers eating out of your hands!
Rain6639 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3846	Posted - 2016.04.08 17:37:42 - [76] - Quote Poopicus Butts wrote: Are you nerds seriously complaining over free SP I'm with this guy.
Gian Bal Noble Sentiments Second Empire. 7	Posted - 2016.04.08 17:38:07 - [77] - Quote I got an awesome idea! Liquidate all assets owned by CCP Games and beg Blizzard to have our own cluster in world of warcraft. Either way thats the direction eve is headed. *Litterally God*
Masao Kurata Many Much Mechanics 443	Posted - 2016.04.08 17:40:01 - [78] - Quote Absolutely not. Logging in every character every day and popping a rat (incidentally something I do more like every month currently, pve is not part of my regular gameplay and I do not want it to be) is every bit as much of a grind as going through a dungeon killing everything over and over until a bar fills up, and in fact worse became it imposes on your real life schedule. Also, where's my 100k SP per day for ganking someone?
Combat Wombatz Bearded BattleBears I N F A M O U S 26	Posted - 2016.04.08 17:40:33 - [79] - Quote Gian Bal wrote: I got an awesome idea! Liquidate all assets owned by CCP Games and beg Blizzard to have our own cluster in world of warcraft. Either way thats the direction eve is headed. holy lol
Skia Aumer Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 208	Posted - 2016.04.08 17:42:10 - [80] - Quote CCP Rise wrote: Feedback appreciate as always Burn in hell.
Michael Oskold Adversity. Psychotic Tendencies. 19	Posted - 2016.04.08 17:45:09 - [81] - Quote the hysteria in this thread is hilarious. eve already has grind to skill with injectors. all ive seen from it is hilarious stories and people that are happy about having more control over what they need in a character. if there are daily activities that push you to get out (without being broken B) ) im all for it.
Boom Boom Longtime EVE Corporation 6908469858 Heroes and Villains. 1307	Posted - 2016.04.08 17:46:29 - [82] - Quote Yet another low ball move by CCP against the core founding principles of the game in clear pursuit of shameless corporate greed. What a surprise! Concord Approved Trader
Skia Aumer Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 213	Posted - 2016.04.08 17:46:46 - [83] - Quote First, you remove 24 hour limit from skill queue. Then you suggest skill points for merely logging in. Great logic!
Huan Matus Elite pilots Project.Mayhem. 2	Posted - 2016.04.08 17:47:34 - [84] - Quote Please don't make EVE Online WoWlike. There's no need in any achievements system. Let people choose their goals themselves.
Ranafal Rezeda Supplements Rezeda Regnum 46	Posted - 2016.04.08 17:48:03 - [85] - Quote The original idea is horrible because of injecting SP from nowhere. I propose another one: - if player A kills ship of player B, and player A has less SP than player B, then -- player A gets 100 SP -- player B loses 120 SP (numbers are just for example, can be adjusted)
Ddolik Black Sheep Down Tactical Narcotics Team 47	Posted - 2016.04.08 17:48:28 - [86] - Quote please dont do this... no no no no
Seraph Essael eXceed Inc. 1173	Posted - 2016.04.08 17:48:45 - [87] - Quote Selling out... Quoted from Doc Fury: "Concerned citizens: Doc seldom plays EVE on the weekends during spring and summer, so you will always be on your own for a couple days a week. Doc spends that time collecting kittens for the on-going sacrifices, engaging in reckless outdoor activities, and speaking in the 3rd person."
Tipa Riot Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 2357	Posted - 2016.04.08 17:48:50 - [88] - Quote Captain Semper wrote: Dont like it. Becuase this SP will comes from NOWHERE For now the only way to increase SP in the EVE is training. And for this... Well... Farm NPC get SP... Very bad and not "Spirit of EvE". I realy dont want see this in the game. This. There was a strong emphasize in the skill injector discussion, that skillpoints are not created out of thin air but have to be created by training. Now you just throw that very important reasoning out of the window, and start giving out new SP for activity. I can only assume this is the next step in order to gradually transform EvE into F2P. I'm my own NPC alt.
Curly Quote The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc 1	Posted - 2016.04.08 17:50:43 - [89] - Quote This is awesome! Loving the idea behind this, CCP!
Kin-Dza-Dza Ecilopp W-Space Bums 23	Posted - 2016.04.08 17:52:40 - [90] - Quote The version of the feature we are planning to deploy first will be a simple 20,000 skill point reward that a character will receive the first time they kill an PLAYER ship every 22 hours.
Lucas Quaan Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 117	Posted - 2016.04.08 17:53:24 - [91] - Quote Worst. Idea. Ever.
Quesa Burning Napalm Northern Coalition. 88	Posted - 2016.04.08 17:53:26 - [92] - Quote /sigh
Evelgrivion Calamitous-Intent Feign Disorder 368	Posted - 2016.04.08 17:53:41 - [93] - Quote Once upon a time, Eve Online prided itself for being different from other MMORPGs, and boldly proclaimed that you could progress as fast as everyone else as your time permitted, whether or not you could log in every single day. That was a powerful vision, and a good one for every day and weekend players alike. Why are we moving away from that vision now? Why is EVE becoming a game that you must log into every day lest you miss out on some quantity of skill points - the one commodity in this game that has ever mattered?
Pleasure Hub Node-514 Pleasure Hub Hotline 72	Posted - 2016.04.08 17:54:47 - [94] - Quote Sansa Vaquesh wrote: pls nooo! thats eve, not just a random mainstream mmorpg Woo! The legacy of Dust daily missions lives on. +1 CCP *'One night hauler'* The tell all story of a pleasure bot in Jita 4-4
Obivan -Kenobi H..Y..D..R..A. Soviet-Union 0	Posted - 2016.04.08 17:56:11 - [95] - Quote Don't turn EvE Online into WoW!!!
Bobb Bobbington Bros Before Holes The Devils' Rejects 205	Posted - 2016.04.08 17:58:26 - [96] - Quote Lucas Kell wrote: Lol, dailies in EVE. It's so terrible, it's brilliant. Bobb Bobbington wrote: But what's next? SP on site completion? YES! +10 to this idea CCP. I hope that's sarcasm? The point I was trying to make was that even the worst things are created by daring to take those first tiny steps off the right path. I wouldn't be surprised if 2-3 years from now this was more like space WoW than the hard, cold, noob-unfriendly game it was designed to be. This is a signature. It has a 25m signature. No it's not a cosmic signature. Probably. Btw my corp's recruiting.
Chinicata Shihari Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation 49	Posted - 2016.04.08 17:58:36 - [97] - Quote I thought stupid ideas were banned on these forums? In truth this is one of the worst ideas you guys have come up with. Magical free SP from nowhere? Daily quests are a bad idea for this game. If i wanted them i would be playing runescape not Spaceships online. Next your gonna add an option to buy SP in the NEX store. Eve isn't your normal MMO and that is what makes it good. Please keep it that way and don't change it.
Delilah Albertis School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 0	Posted - 2016.04.08 17:58:48 - [98] - Quote Boom Boom Longtime wrote: Yet another low ball move by CCP against the core founding principles of the game in clear pursuit of shameless corporate greed. What a surprise! Is CCP making you pay more money for this feature? Is it going to hurt the bottom line in your real world transactions? There is nothing here at all indicating as such so your argument is invalid. They are giving an avenue for people to advance themselves in game should they choose so. If it makes it more fun and accessible for someone why is that bad, is it because when you started playing you had to walk to Jita and back barefoot uphill in the snow both ways? Seraph Essael wrote: Selling out... Selling out to who, the big record companies that they signed a 5 album deal with for 100 million dollars? I don't you quite understand the notion of "selling out".
Lavayar Russian SOBR Dream Fleet 244	Posted - 2016.04.08 17:59:48 - [99] - Quote It`s time to start shooting monument in Jita
Borat Guereen Chao3 Chao3 Alliance 58	Posted - 2016.04.08 18:00:23 - [100] - Quote Makoto Priano wrote: Darkblad; sure, but original concept wasn't SP. ;) That said, Rise: my solution. Don't give SP. Instead, give Society of Conscious Thought LP. They don't have any agents, so no other source of it. You then use the SoCT LP store for rewards, which you can rotate or adjust easily. This gives a storyline basis for SP ('micro-injectors,' thanks Gorion), for why this new push is underway (SoCT loves the egg), and you can also provide other rewards. Further, if it's a marketable good in an LP store, you can get interdiction, market trading, etc. If you're worried about the only source of these being Geminate, you could post a few more SoCT stations in various places, like, say, CONCORD sovereignty? I prefer that solution to the SP accumulation, even if one of the reward could be a skill injector. In any case, the daily reward should be adjusted according to the risk involved in killing the NPC (i.e., killing a NPC in High sec should offer less reward than killing one in low sec, null sec or WH) Join our Minarchist Revolution!
Bluedagger New Jovian Exploration Department A Band Apart. 1	Posted - 2016.04.08 18:00:58 - [101] - Quote The implementation of this idea is not good. Utilizing an existing system such as the opportunity system and/or career agents (both great pathways for new players) to provide a one-time SP gain to help boost new players into the game is a far better move than this. This does not seem thought out, and provides an all too simple method that anyone with 10 seconds to spare can achieve. It will make people feel that its mandatory to log in every day to "keep up" with the rest of the player base. Please don't implement this as it was described.
RoAnnon Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation 42079	Posted - 2016.04.08 18:01:15 - [102] - Quote Dante deLio wrote: I suggest to give SP for killing ships in PvP either. Not in 22 hours but for each kill mail according to size of the ship was killed. Not the size of the ship, the SP of the pilot... So, you're a bounty hunter. No, that ain't it at all. Then what are you? I'm a bounty hunter. Broadcast4Reps Eve Vegas 2015 Pub Crawl Group 9
Djavo Viziam Amarr Empire 29	Posted - 2016.04.08 18:02:09 - [103] - Quote I think this improperly favours certain gameplay over other. I usually fc for my small corp. Whenever I get online, we form up and we go kill out of our static null. There is almost no exception to this daily routine we have. I don't make my isk by ratting. why shouldn't I, someone who kills another player (and encourages 5-6 others to do so daily), not be entitled to 3-4mil SP per year? What about the industrialists out there? What makes killing NPCs any more valuable than the work they are doing. I supported skill injectors, because it is driven by the currency in EVE, and which applies to most activities, but I don't support this. Disclaimer: I am not an EVE veteran. I bought this alt. I have been playing the game for less than 2 years.
Ruby Gnollo 1	Posted - 2016.04.08 18:02:27 - [104] - Quote CCP Rise wrote: Hi I'm here to give you guys a heads up that sometime early next week a small daily activity reward feature will be hitting Singularity and will hopefully be making its way to TQ sometime just after Citadel. I'm really happy with that : switching the skill queue between my three characters was so burdensome I just bought each an injector to avoid the hassle of handling boring skill plans with 3rd party tools. Cause, yeah, I suck at spreadsheets & plans and I take Eve as a game, not a job. That's why I'm really happy CCP will make the game more enjoyable without making me pay more. Less spreadsheets, more flying : this sounds really great.
Tyrant Scorn 197	Posted - 2016.04.08 18:02:40 - [105] - Quote CCP Rise wrote: Hi I'm here to give you guys a heads up that sometime early next week a small daily activity reward feature will be hitting Singularity and will hopefully be making its way to TQ sometime just after Citadel. As you guys surely know, having people in game and in space is great and we want to start promoting and rewarding activity a little more directly. The version of the feature we are planning to deploy first will be a simple 10,000 skill point reward that a character will receive the first time they kill an NPC ship every 22 hours. The skillpoints will go into your unallocated pool to be used however you like. You will find the status of your daily skill boost in the Opportunities info panel and you will also receive notifications to let you know when it becomes available. That's it for now. If this goes well we hope to expand in several ways, but more on that later! Feedback appreciate as always, CCP Rise for Team Size Matters Does that count for Sleepers in Wormhole combat sites, Gas sites and Wormhole data and relic sites as well ? The Tyrant King YouTube \| Twitter \| Twitch
Cara Mayson Suddenly Dreadnoughts BIack Tie Affairs 5	Posted - 2016.04.08 18:02:41 - [106] - Quote polish more... separate sp gains between hulls...shooting a frigate is not the same as shooting a cruiser obv. give sp after finishing a mission give sp after pvp, a bit like fw lp+- give sp after completing newbie trials A mentor system would work better imo, but maybe not easy to implement.
D'ert 27	Posted - 2016.04.08 18:02:48 - [107] - Quote I apologize in advance for my English. You want to promote online, but cheap Korean methods. Problems which in the game a few players are in its underlying mechanics. From games huge outflow of new players due to the fact that it is sometimes very boring, and because it is a game of extremes. In one case the players are almost in the safe zone, where they will instantly be punished for aggressive action against another player. And in the other case, the player is in total anarchy, where anyone can shoot and not be punished. And by the way for the beginner barier between these areas of large heights. Leave completely safe several systems where newbies start the game the way, in the remaining parts create the game such that the player could be safe only under certain conditions, and if he doesn't want conflict (Lineage 2). Make profitable anomalies where players can interfere with each other for resources. In the game a vast world of resources and lacks everything, it's boring! But the main thing - take away the extremes: almost full security and chaos.
Axhind Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation 102	Posted - 2016.04.08 18:02:56 - [108] - Quote Lavayar wrote: It`s time to start shooting monument in Jita It's time to go play PS2 or TF2. Seems that's the ideal that CCP wants to move eve in and to boot they are both free to play without all the grind and **** in EVE so you can have a few moments of fun.
Evelgrivion Calamitous-Intent Feign Disorder 370	Posted - 2016.04.08 18:05:06 - [109] - Quote Ruby Gnollo wrote: CCP Rise wrote: Hi I'm here to give you guys a heads up that sometime early next week a small daily activity reward feature will be hitting Singularity and will hopefully be making its way to TQ sometime just after Citadel. I'm really happy with that : switching the skill queue between my three characters was so burdensome I just bought each an injector to avoid the hassle of handling boring skill plans with 3rd party tools. Cause, yeah, I suck at spreadsheets & plans and I take Eve as a game, not a job. That's why I'm really happy CCP will make the game more enjoyable without making me pay more. Less spreadsheets, more flying : this sounds really great. It's the work that goes into what you have in this game that makes flying in space meaningful. Free, useful commodities for logging in and doing effectively nothing will not make you happier with what you have built or what you have destroyed in Eve.
AlexKent KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 18	Posted - 2016.04.08 18:05:38 - [110] - Quote It seems you guys (CCP) can't take any step forward without moving two steps back. Skillpoints for in-game activities is just stupid and against everything it stands for. Who comes up with this stuff anyways?
Jethen Rama KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 0	Posted - 2016.04.08 18:05:47 - [111] - Quote This is terrible You are creating a system that makes players make a decision: log into each character and kill a rat or forget it and lose 10k sp. Both decisions are bad: you either lose time on boring action or you lose sp It is the most half-assed, unthoughtful change since monocles. I mean, while we're at it why don't we add Talents to the game?
Pleasure Hub Node-514 Pleasure Hub Hotline 72	Posted - 2016.04.08 18:05:52 - [112] - Quote X4m wrote: Daily Opportunites = good SP as reward = bad Look at it from the point of view of a new player. They get out of their comfort zone shooting a NPC ship each day. Proceeding down this path of daily activity they round out their core skills a little bit faster. *'One night hauler'* The tell all story of a pleasure bot in Jita 4-4
Batolemaeus Free-Space-Ranger Northern Coalition. 203	Posted - 2016.04.08 18:07:35 - [113] - Quote I play Eve because, unlike literally every single other MMO on the market, it does not use passive-aggressive tricks to manipulate me into logging in. I log into Eve when I want to play Eve. I, also, play Eve because, unlike literally every single MMO on the market, I am not forced to do anything. I can log in, pick what I want to do, and just have fun doing it. I don't use PI. I don't do PVE. I do industry, market, logistics. There is nothing forcing me to do the things I do, I do them because I like doing them. Let's be absolutely clear. It is blatantly obvious what you are doing here. You are trying to create a compulsion to log in, a compulsion that works because the sense of losing out is strong. It's an extremely low-effort psychological trick that turns logging in into a a thing to do out of obligation. Logging in three accounts, repeatedly, to try and find some NPC, killing it just because everyone else is moving 20-30% faster than me if I don't. It is the most joyless of forced grinds. It poses no challenge; the reward is extrinsic to what I'm doing. And, like every single MMO on the market that does something like this, it becomes a chore. We have enough chores in Eve. **** off.
Bobb Bobbington Bros Before Holes The Devils' Rejects 205	Posted - 2016.04.08 18:08:37 - [114] - Quote Pleasure Hub Node-514 wrote: X4m wrote: Daily Opportunites = good SP as reward = bad Look at it from the point of view of a new player. They get out of their comfort zone shooting a NPC ship each day. Proceeding down this path of daily activity they round out their core skills a little bit faster. Except then people have to log in each day! And although technically people don't really HAVE to, gamer, especially Eve player mentality, is to min max everything and get perfect rewards, so people will log in each day for like a month or so and then get bored of Eve in general after they can no longer stand to log in to get that 10k SP. This is a signature. It has a 25m signature. No it's not a cosmic signature. Probably. Btw my corp's recruiting.
Skia Aumer Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 213	Posted - 2016.04.08 18:09:14 - [115] - Quote I have a better plan to boost TQ numbers. Let's make CCP Rise to spawn at random gate with suspect flag and scrambled by NPC. Let the hunt begin!
Circumstantial Evidence 277	Posted - 2016.04.08 18:11:18 - [116] - Quote SP as reward? No, please no. Do not manufacture SP from thin air. If you must create this new feature, CONCORD LP as reward. Let players choose what they want.
Stellar Compass Secret Passage 5	Posted - 2016.04.08 18:11:42 - [117] - Quote CCP Rise wrote: Hi I'm here to give you guys a heads up that sometime early next week a small daily activity reward feature will be hitting Singularity and will hopefully be making its way to TQ sometime just after Citadel. As you guys surely know, having people in game and in space is great and we want to start promoting and rewarding activity a little more directly. The version of the feature we are planning to deploy first will be a simple 10,000 skill point reward that a character will receive the first time they kill an NPC ship every 22 hours. The skillpoints will go into your unallocated pool to be used however you like. You will find the status of your daily skill boost in the Opportunities info panel and you will also receive notifications to let you know when it becomes available. That's it for now. If this goes well we hope to expand in several ways, but more on that later! Feedback appreciate as always, CCP Rise for Team Size Matters Well, I can see people are behaving as expected, or rather some are. I personally think it is a nice idea, it won't change my behaviour every day, but it WILL encourage me to sign in and have a look around, SOME days where I might not have otherwise. So the plan Is good, and I am probably now hated for agreeing with you, never mind. I would suggest, that some of the first drops of the day, contain micro injectors, created by ccp from destroyed/dropped/banned injectors. That would increase the interest for doing things, and once in space, things happen, and people stay on longer, and maybe talk to their friends and stay on much longer than they thought to. So good plan.
Skyler Mind Klungels second hand spaceshipparts Kids With Guns Alliance 5	Posted - 2016.04.08 18:12:30 - [118] - Quote I thought that the bounty, ore, loot , isk , was already the reward for doing such activities....
ArchAngael New Jovian Exploration Department A Band Apart. 26	Posted - 2016.04.08 18:12:36 - [119] - Quote I'm strongly opposed to the system as described. Anyone who played WoW will know that if something is perceived valuable enough, even if technically optional, it will seem mandatory because otherwise you are leaving something valuable on the table. Therefore people will feel obligated to log on EVERY character on EVERY account and shoot a belt rat frigate every day, which is mind-numbingly terrible and a giant waste of time. For people who only have an hour or so per day to play, that'll become the entire game. Which since it sucks, will lead them to the conclusion that the game sucks, and hence fewer people in space overall. Even for those who have more time, spending their first hour doing their dailies will make it feel like a job rather than looking forward to PvPing/building/mining/whatever they actually like to do. Also, this really is SP ginned up from nowhere, which is against the spirit of Eve. Read my Pod and Planet fiction entry at http://blog.fenjaylabs.com/2015/11/12/the-best-sport-pod-and-planet-entry/ Take my Eve Online Ship identification quiz at http://fenjaylabs.com/EveShipIdQuiz
Michael Ignis Archangel Giant Robot Factory White Legion. 105	Posted - 2016.04.08 18:13:07 - [120] - Quote I think the idea is a good one; I think the reward given out is a bad one. Some sort of LP, even if just got cosmetic items, fits into the lore much better and doesn't seem as cheesy or immersion-breaking. Even an item or LP that you can turn in somewhere, say to SoCT, for a booster that bumps your training for an equivalent 10k SP, would be far, far better than this in my opinion. Make people go somewhere, and do something, other than just shooting a belt rat and going home.
Emmaline Fera Interstellar Expeditionary Group Einstein-Rosen Brigade 9	Posted - 2016.04.08 18:14:31 - [121] - Quote If all CCP is interested in is quantity of interactions (as some kind of metric necessary to achieve X goal, or prove Y status to Z investor), then this certainly will fit that bill. It will also provide a metric to show, over time, how many players are pursuing this SP carrot. Initial high response will, I predict, in short order lead to dramatic decline. Because quantity without quality of interactions is an empty experience. We tell newbros to join corps, meet people, make connections -- so, why not tie this effort to that philosophy: not only does the Opportunity require you to talk to someone, but you should fleet with them and go pew pew rats! Why not a breed of missions that require you to fleet with at least one other person? And do so for at least an hour? (And yes, you can hack this with alts, but really, for amount of effort and time, that's a bit of an edge case.) From a lore standpoint, SP should not be generated out of thin air. Rather, it could come as a reward for team work -- which, by the way, the Empires can use as a way to drive capsuleer loyalty to them. Thus SP would not be all-purpose, but specific. Caldari Team Missions would award SP for Caldari ships, or missiles. Amarr Team Missions, for Amarr Ships and Fedos ;) Additionally, these SP payouts could be cumulative, not awarded at the end of every mission. Rather, hand out the total at the end of 5 or 10 missions. Making sure that the SP is focused will help newbros who often struggle with knowing what to pursue skill wise, and attaching the SP to team-based activity will drive engagement and longer-term subscribers.
Tyrant Scorn 197	Posted - 2016.04.08 18:14:37 - [122] - Quote Borat Guereen wrote: I prefer that solution to the SP accumulation, even if one of the reward could be a skill injector. In any case, the daily reward should be adjusted according to the risk involved in killing the NPC (i.e., killing a NPC in High sec should offer less reward than killing one in low sec, null sec or WH) I agree, I take far more risks in Wormhole space... The Tyrant King YouTube \| Twitter \| Twitch
Avatharian Amok. Goonswarm Federation 4	Posted - 2016.04.08 18:15:30 - [123] - Quote All I have to say on the matter.
dexter xio Zero Fun Allowed 103	Posted - 2016.04.08 18:15:32 - [124] - Quote are you actually high Dead Game.
Erin Aldent Eagle Wing Industries Prodigal Alliance 0	Posted - 2016.04.08 18:16:03 - [125] - Quote So many strawmen in this thread and the salt! We need T2 Salt Miners right away. I like it, it means you have to undock or leave your POS but i like it none the less.
Tyrant Scorn 197	Posted - 2016.04.08 18:17:22 - [126] - Quote Avatharian wrote: All I have to say on the matter. This one is better... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eal4fep7pK4&nohtml5=False The Tyrant King YouTube \| Twitter \| Twitch
Lord Fargo GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 27	Posted - 2016.04.08 18:18:30 - [127] - Quote Yay WoW dailies
Commander Freir The Red Island Foundation Shadow Cartel 18	Posted - 2016.04.08 18:19:18 - [128] - Quote No. What about those of us who just don't rat? Some people take pride in their -10 standing as well. The last thing you want to do is encourage people to treat logging in as a daily chore like this game is WoW. That'll encourage burnout, and isn't fun anyways.
Jeremiah Saken The Fall of Leviathan 522	Posted - 2016.04.08 18:19:19 - [129] - Quote So 10 000 x 365 = 3 650 000 SP for free. Will other acitvites will stack with other, for example kill one npc with hacking? "(...) I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas (...)" "Here in the garden of the arcane delights dark shadows overwhelm us and and we become blind..."
Evelgrivion Calamitous-Intent Feign Disorder 375	Posted - 2016.04.08 18:20:03 - [130] - Quote Erin Aldent wrote: So many strawmen in this thread and the salt! We need T2 Salt Miners right away. I like it, it means you have to undock or leave your POS but i like it none the less. Player objection to this idea is about not undermining Eve Online's fundamental progression systems and making the game into the opposite of what it once was; yes, to be sure, giving Eve Online a daily grind that will make you less good than other players (unless you shell out for skill injectors to play catch up... I'm not a fan of those things existing, either) will make Eve into the opposite of what it once was, whilst burning people out of logging in, and making them care less about New Eden. A player's want to do something in the game must be the incentive for logging in. Not getting your daily skillpoints is a psychological punishment for failing to do so, and CCP's developers damn well know this.
Tokyo Drifter School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 7	Posted - 2016.04.08 18:20:20 - [131] - Quote Erin Aldent wrote: So many strawmen in this thread and the salt! We need T2 Salt Miners right away. I like it, it means you have to undock or leave your POS but i like it none the less. Your meta 4 memes aren't funny
Lucius Kalari Mass Collapse Ember Sands 38	Posted - 2016.04.08 18:22:50 - [132] - Quote No thank you, need more reasons for people to get out of high sec, rather than more reasons for them to stay.
Alexander McKeon Blackwater USA Inc. Pandemic Legion 135	Posted - 2016.04.08 18:23:48 - [133] - Quote Rise, you need to remember just how many characters (since this is on a per-character basis) contribute significantly to EVE's universe without ever having reason to shoot at NPCs. Station traders, freighter pilots, scan alts, industrialists, etc. would all have to go do something outside their normal routine. Forcing people to do something with their characters that the character isn't really intended, trained, or located for or progress their skill training slower as a consequence is not good design. Making it once per account, with each character (or each actively training character) getting that 10k would be better if you're really intent on something of this nature. Activity in EVE and making the game's universe alive goes so far beyond killing rats that creating incentive for them to do that specifically is absurd. Don't try to roll this out early, wait until you have a better measure of 'activity' that eve players from all professions can participate in.
Anthar Thebess 1491	Posted - 2016.04.08 18:23:54 - [134] - Quote You want to give 10k reward? Give it for shooting other player in low/null and WH space. Stop discrimination, help in a fight against terrorists Show your support to The Cause!
Gilbaron Free-Space-Ranger Northern Coalition. 1901	Posted - 2016.04.08 18:26:00 - [135] - Quote not opposed to this, but undocking and killing a random NPC isn't terribly exciting. i'd rather have rewards for people doing things they don't do everyday or feel slightly uncomfortable doing
Molly Shears Call of the Wild The Minions. 3	Posted - 2016.04.08 18:26:23 - [136] - Quote No. just no.
Pleasure Hub Node-514 Pleasure Hub Hotline 72	Posted - 2016.04.08 18:28:41 - [137] - Quote Bobb Bobbington wrote: Except then people have to log in each day! And although technically people don't really HAVE to, gamer, especially Eve player mentality, is to min max everything and get perfect rewards, so people will log in each day for like a month or so and then get bored of Eve in general after they can no longer stand to log in to get that 10k SP. Yes, the dedicated subgroup of null space multi-account SP farmers will probably commit to getting dailies religiously, but it can put their attribute implant husks at risk as they have to undock them to get an NPC kill. If CCP prevents people from injecting skills remotely, then those null space skill farmers may have to risk bringing shipments to empire markets. *'One night hauler'* The tell all story of a pleasure bot in Jita 4-4
Nynaeve Aylet SniggWaffe WAFFLES. 0	Posted - 2016.04.08 18:30:36 - [138] - Quote So free SP for carebears? No thanks
OutCast EG Very Industrial Corp. Legion of xXDEATHXx 35	Posted - 2016.04.08 18:32:24 - [139] - Quote Please no dailies. They suck the will to log in out of you. And these definitely don't sound voluntary with additional 300k SP / month they give. This is not a feature for EVE.
Michael Ignis Archangel Giant Robot Factory White Legion. 105	Posted - 2016.04.08 18:32:50 - [140] - Quote Second thought: what if instead of SP, you decreased the remap cooldown by 12 or 24 hours? It would make more sense that people who fly their spaceships and get some neurons firing have more plastic minds. I'm just flat-out assuming that shooting a rat will in no way be the only way to earn this.
Perry Swift SniggWaffe WAFFLES. 7	Posted - 2016.04.08 18:33:21 - [141] - Quote ** this ** what about people that want to stay true -10.0 sec status?
Eveline Vos POS Party Ember Sands 3	Posted - 2016.04.08 18:33:37 - [142] - Quote I hate this idea so much. Eve is wonderful because it doesn't matter when you log in, or if you have to AFK for a day or month, but this punishes that idea way too hard. Please do not go down this road CCP.
Tackle Tina TURN DOWN. The Camel Empire 0	Posted - 2016.04.08 18:33:54 - [143] - Quote I **hate** the feeling of being forced to log in. I know I don't need to do it, but I know this feeling from other, often f2p, games. I like eve because I don't feel forced to log in and grind. I can be offline for 2 weeks and that is just fine. Please don't do this. Please.
knobber Jobbler Bat Country Pandemic Legion 591	Posted - 2016.04.08 18:34:08 - [144] - Quote Bad idea. Unless you're going to do it for every trade/profession. Even then it's still terrible.
Current Habit Rusty Pricks 93	Posted - 2016.04.08 18:34:17 - [145] - Quote Just remember to also introduce a system to publicly display the rough number of SP someone has, maybe in one million SP steps. Maybe call it 'Character Level' because it's an indication how much individual skills someone has.
Kalenn Istarion GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 33	Posted - 2016.04.08 18:34:56 - [146] - Quote CCP Rise wrote: For now it will be per character, even if they aren't actively training. "how about a reward for either killing an NPC, hacking a Data/Relic thingy or popping a rock?" - Likely one of the first ways we would look to expand in a follow-up release. I'm not sure I like the idea in general, but if you're going to do it, you should include pvp activity and not just rat killing. Being in space shooting other players should be at least as valuable as shooting a random rat. This is also punitive, as others have mentioned, to characters whose purpose has nothing to do with shooting anything at all. Scouts, logistics, freighters, etc. It's pretty silly to do this for PVE activities only and not other things - either do it right, as a complete range of bonuses for a range of activities or not at all. Try Harder.
Pleasure Hub Node-514 Pleasure Hub Hotline 72	Posted - 2016.04.08 18:35:11 - [147] - Quote Tyrant Scorn wrote: Borat Guereen wrote: I prefer that solution to the SP accumulation, even if one of the reward could be a skill injector. In any case, the daily reward should be adjusted according to the risk involved in killing the NPC (i.e., killing a NPC in High sec should offer less reward than killing one in low sec, null sec or WH) I agree, I take far more risks in Wormhole space... Hmm. Flattening rewards, flattens SP production power across all sectors of space. Changing this gives greater production power to Null and Wormhole groups that inhabit those spaces because they spawn better enemies which by your reasoning reward more SP. That'll ** off the high-sec missionbears for sure. 'One night hauler'** The tell all story of a pleasure bot in Jita 4-4
JonnyPew Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 39	Posted - 2016.04.08 18:35:29 - [148] - Quote Uh... say what now? EVE Online is my hobby http://www.youtube.com/JonnyPew
Lulu Lunette ThinkTank Phoenix TOG - The Older Gamers Alliance 348	Posted - 2016.04.08 18:36:06 - [149] - Quote haha @lunettelulu7
Shalashaska Adam Partial Safety 130	Posted - 2016.04.08 18:37:15 - [150] - Quote Much like everyone else, I think this is a pretty bad and desperate idea. Once again, i'm sure the negative feedback won't be at all listened to.
Captain Semper OEG Freedom Among the Stars 83	Posted - 2016.04.08 18:38:30 - [151] - Quote CCP, if you want to reward a new pilots with that so make smth like this: You get this daily while below 5kk SP. Works only for account not charachter.
Entity X-Factor Industries Synthetic Existence 886	Posted - 2016.04.08 18:38:52 - [152] - Quote I'm going to give this "feature" a thumbs down. `Gòª......Gòæ...GòöGòù.Gòæ.Gòæ.GòöGòù.GòªGòæ.GòöGòùGòöGòªGòùGòöGòù` `Gòæ.GòöGòùGòöGòùGòöGòú.GòöGòùGòá..Gòá GòáGòùGòáGò¥.GòæGòá GòáGò¥GòæGòæGòæGòÜGòù` `Gò¬GòÉGòÜGò¥Gòæ.GòÜGò¥.GòÜGò¥Gòæ..GòÜGò¥GòæGòæGòÜGò¥.Gò¬GòÜGò¥GòÜGò¥Gòæ.GòæGòÜGò¥` Got Item?
SHRUS Small Value 2	Posted - 2016.04.08 18:39:50 - [153] - Quote do not kill my eve-online CCP please dont!
Pleasure Hub Node-514 Pleasure Hub Hotline 72	Posted - 2016.04.08 18:40:26 - [154] - Quote Eveline Vos wrote: I hate this idea so much. Eve is wonderful because it doesn't matter when you log in, or if you have to AFK for a day or month, but this punishes that idea way too hard. Please do not go down this road CCP. CCP isn't taking away passive SP. You can go AFK and still come back to something. Having come to Eve through Dust, I'm perfectly conditioned to both active and passive system (they had a daily mission system there too). Unlike, Dust, you can buy skill injectors off other players at will. *'One night hauler'* The tell all story of a pleasure bot in Jita 4-4
sci0gon Kaira Innovations Superior Eve Engineering 40	Posted - 2016.04.08 18:40:30 - [155] - Quote Dorijan wrote: Let's add the worst feature of any MMO - daily chores - to EVE Online. you obviously never played many mmo's or you wouldnt be saying that. there are lots of mmos out there that require the daily quests to help players level more as the story line quests dont even account for two thirds of a level and even less at higher levels. This aspect helps players reach end game content and when your dungeon raiding, having more players at that level of game play is better especially if they're tanks or healers. In addition there are other mmo's that have weekly quests like FF mmo which gives a bonus item upon completion to upgrade. as for eve, the daily rewards system wouldnt be bad however I would suggest that if any exp points are to be given out it would be better to do it at least every 7 days not daily and another thing, DO NOT limit it to just one group of players make sure its available for everyone to access.
Ariel Rin Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 26	Posted - 2016.04.08 18:42:19 - [156] - Quote You Just Went Full **** Never Go Full ****... Ariel Rin Creator and Manager of EVE Meet, for notification and sharing of out of game meets. Twitter - Ariel Rin - EVE Meet
Nuka-Cola Addict Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State 1	Posted - 2016.04.08 18:42:23 - [157] - Quote This is hilarious. Please make it happen, if nothing more than to see all the tears flow.
Tristan Agion Viziam Amarr Empire 111	Posted - 2016.04.08 18:43:05 - [158] - Quote So I log in my character(s), fly to an asteroid belt, pop one NPC frigate, fly back, log out - the game got better for whom how now?! It will be somewhat amusing, I guess, to see the server load from thousands upon thousands of Jita-based players jumping to the nearest asteroid belts and back, day after day... Will people form orderly queues in the belts waiting for NPC spawns? I'm guessing we will see discussions on what ship and fit will allow for the fastest and safest "undock from Jita - find NPC - pop it - return to Jita" turnaround. As much as I hunger for SP as newish player (injector donations welcome...), making the grind specific is just a bad idea. Right now, I can do whatever I want to do in EVE to get SP, as long as it earns me ISK. Because as soon as I hit 630M or thereabouts, I can buy a skill injector. The route to SP via ISK also provides a natural evaluation of how valuable to the rest of the game my activity is. As it turns out, killing a belt rat is not something anybody gives a rat's ass about. Let's say killing a rat give me about 25k ISK (bounty, loot, salvage). I will need to kill over 25,000 rats then to afford a skill injector. If I am a new player, I would get 500,000 SP from injecting. So a single rat kill is worth less than 20 SP... Better find something more profitable to do in EVe. And that's how it should be.
James Fnord Black Omega Security The OSS 19	Posted - 2016.04.08 18:43:22 - [159] - Quote No thanks. Dailies I'm not fond of, but would be acceptable if they were rewarded with (small amounts of) isk, lp, or aurum. Skillpoints, on the other hand, feel all kinds of wrong.
Altrue Exploration Frontier inc 2006	Posted - 2016.04.08 18:44:06 - [160] - Quote At the very least if you decide to go forth with this project, why not 30 000 sp per day for the first three NPC kills on the ACCOUNT, instead of 10 000 sp per CHARACTER? Dailies are already a pain, but having to cycle through your characters makes this go way over the top. Signature Tanking Best Tanking Retired Exploration Frontier Inc [Ex-F] CEO - Ex-BRAVE - Eve-guides.fr
Elsebeth Rhiannon Icecream Audit Office 685	Posted - 2016.04.08 18:44:19 - [161] - Quote If you want to tie SP to actually logging and/or being active in game, do not tie it into any particular action in the game. Tie it to logging in and/or being active (either undocking or doing stuff for some time in the station services system). I really don't feel SP for killing/shooting stuff fits well into EVE. Want some nuts with your intelligence?
Mizhara Del'thul Kyn'aldrnari 701	Posted - 2016.04.08 18:46:15 - [162] - Quote Oh hell naw. "Dailies" is one of the reasons I've quit every MMO that has had them. If you can't make it interesting and attractive to do to begin with, making it a chore isn't going to bloody help. This doesn't promote activity, it promotes drudgery and will get tiresome immediately. Now, if you made it a weekly involving PvP or something, we could start having a debate on the matter but ratting for SP every day? You just herped when you should have derped, man.
Tyrant Scorn 199	Posted - 2016.04.08 18:46:24 - [163] - Quote Altrue wrote: At the very least if you decide to go forth with this project, why not 30 000 sp per day for the first three NPC kills on the ACCOUNT, instead of 10 000 sp per CHARACTER? Dailies are already a pain, but having to cycle through your characters makes this go way over the top. I like this... The Tyrant King YouTube \| Twitter \| Twitch
Gaia Hecatonchires Fonky Family 3	Posted - 2016.04.08 18:48:24 - [164] - Quote so sad.... daily make me quit so much online games why doing the same as so much loser game online ? really bad and stupid idea.
Mike Azariah The Scope Gallente Federation 3462	Posted - 2016.04.08 18:48:27 - [165] - Quote Trying to keep up with this thread but it is moving fast. 1) sp from nowhere? nah bro. It is not from no where, tons of it is being 'lost' when people inject in higher level characters. Think of it as sp sinks and faucets. 2) yes, this is a patently obvious mechanism to make people log on and maybe even play the game. How dare CCP manipulate us like that? 3) I like a flat rate, not something where the rich and powerful get more and the newbies get less. 4) 10k of sp is how much, converted into time? 5) I do expect to see rookie systems get a shade more crowded as they are places to find the 'easy and quick kills for npcs. Always there and paper thin 6) (last one) I disliked the sp injection because it made sp a commodity. This is a logical extension of that change of concept. I don't like it but it IS a logical step m Mike Azariah Gö¼GöÇGöÇGö¼n++ ¯\|(pâä)/¯
DJWiggles Eve Radio Corporation Eve Radio Alliance 242	Posted - 2016.04.08 18:48:53 - [166] - Quote I'm fine with this, little incentives are always good to get people out there and do stuff Live on Eve Radio Sundays 15:00 GMT with me & friends talking about Eve and stuff. Twitter, Facebook TotalEve
Joffy Aulx-Gao Stay Frosty. A Band Apart. 98	Posted - 2016.04.08 18:50:04 - [167] - Quote I'm not a fan of this.. EVE is a sandbox and that Means we want as Little interferring with 'gifts' and 'dailies' EVE is made to be different than all other games out there! EVE is a Unique game we'd like it to stay that way. I'm worried.. First SP injectors and now this? What will the next be? You can atleast reduce it to 5k SP each time or make it account wide so the alts doesn't just farm SP for the main and make it reset at downtime like rest of the game :) Joffy I'm a lowsec pirate, diplo of A Band Apart and a CSM candidate CSM Campaign CSM Interview
Pleasure Hub Node-514 Pleasure Hub Hotline 73	Posted - 2016.04.08 18:51:08 - [168] - Quote Altrue wrote: At the very least if you decide to go forth with this project, why not 30 000 sp per day for the first three NPC kills on the ACCOUNT, instead of 10 000 sp per CHARACTER? Dailies are already a pain, but having to cycle through your characters makes this go way over the top. +1 from me too for a QoL feature. Edit: This does relieve the burden however of multi-character SP farmers. They can keep their two attribute implant characters safe in station, while the hunter grunt goes and fetches daily SP. *'One night hauler'* The tell all story of a pleasure bot in Jita 4-4
twit brent The Scope Gallente Federation 47	Posted - 2016.04.08 18:51:20 - [169] - Quote CCP Rise wrote: For now it will be per character, even if they aren't actively training. "how about a reward for either killing an NPC, hacking a Data/Relic thingy or popping a rock?" - Likely one of the first ways we would look to expand in a follow-up release. Can my titan pilot get XP for sticking part of the ship outside the POS shields every day?
Highsec Alt Scrub Farm 0	Posted - 2016.04.08 18:51:25 - [170] - Quote Rise please, you've become a parody of yourself
Solan Ro WiNGSPAN Academy for Enterprising Pilots WiNGSPAN Delivery Network 0	Posted - 2016.04.08 18:52:33 - [171] - Quote First I thought NO! I am at EVE Online since release (with some breaks) and I like the game because it is not that mainstream like many others. My second thought was that CCP need to do something to be still interesting. Even CCP can't live only with fans. The injectors and this idea with the dailies makes EVE Online more insteresting for casual gamers. Those players who grew up with WoW, Aion etc. won't play EVE Online only because there are dailies. I know a lot of these gamers and they say they don't like this type of gameplay because they don't get advises (kill this npc, collect this ore...). Injectors and dailies are a good option for newer player to get better ships faster which makes the game more interesting for those player (and in case of the injectors it is a good way to make money ). Nobody is forced to log in. It is an on top and this feeling is just your very own. If you feel like this you might think about your prefs.
Eveline Vos POS Party Ember Sands 12	Posted - 2016.04.08 18:53:15 - [172] - Quote Pleasure Hub Node-514 wrote: Eveline Vos wrote: I hate this idea so much. Eve is wonderful because it doesn't matter when you log in, or if you have to AFK for a day or month, but this punishes that idea way too hard. Please do not go down this road CCP. CCP isn't taking away passive SP. You can go AFK and still come back to something. Having come to Eve through Dust, I'm perfectly conditioned to both active and passive system (they had a daily mission system there too). Unlike, Dust, you can buy skill injectors off other players at will. But right now, in the game as it is, you can do any activity you want, whenever you want, and any isk you make can be spent on implants or skill injectors for more SP. If they implement this, then you are being forced to do one specific task in order to get the SP reward. This is the opposite of a sandbox...
hipotecadoydesgraciado Casual Endeavors 2	Posted - 2016.04.08 18:55:44 - [173] - Quote So this is WOW now?
Rek Seven Art Of Explosions 404 Hole Not Found 2182	Posted - 2016.04.08 18:57:51 - [174] - Quote Ok... I guess? As a wormholer I don't like the fact that I will feel the need to log in, scan a k-space exit and kill my daily belt rat instead of being incentived to be active in wormhole space but I guess that's coming soon tm? The wishlist is pretty much complete...
Turelus Caldari Independent Navy Reserve Curatores Veritatis Alliance 1026	Posted - 2016.04.08 18:58:15 - [175] - Quote Not a fan of SP rewards by completion of tasks. One of the things I enjoyed about EVE Online was it wasn't a game about grinding to get ahead of others (like every other MMO I played) players who didn't have the time to log in every single day were always on the same footing (in SP terms) as everyone else. I know there were/are already ways around this with buying characters and now skill injectors. If people want to have more SP then have them grind ISK and buy injectors, not by making this into a "power up by logging in every day" game. As someone who has played many other MMO games I can also tell you that daily tasks is the most soul crushing and boring addition to any MMO. Yet we do them because they're needed for some reason, no one ever enjoys dalies. Lieutenant Turelus - Caldari Independent Navy Reserve - The Fourth District
Swiftstrike1 Swiftstrike Incorporated 907	Posted - 2016.04.08 18:59:15 - [176] - Quote So much hate for this on the front page... I think it's a great idea. It's such a great idea that a lot of other games have been doing it for years already. Sucks a bit for supercapital pilots who won't benefit due to being trapped in their space coffins, but pretty soon they'll be able to build a citadel, park their e-peen, and go kill a rat in relative safety if it bothers them that much :) Casual Incursion runner & Faction Warfare grunt, ex-Wormholer, ex-Nullbear.
FT Diomedes The Graduates 2408	Posted - 2016.04.08 19:00:04 - [177] - Quote Altrue wrote: At the very least if you decide to go forth with this project, why not 30 000 sp per day for the first three NPC kills on the ACCOUNT, instead of 10 000 sp per CHARACTER? Dailies are already a pain, but having to cycle through your characters makes this go way over the top. This is the slightly more palatable alternative... CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.
Shalashaska Adam Partial Safety 134	Posted - 2016.04.08 19:01:37 - [178] - Quote Having now read through this whole thread, I don't think it has even scratched the surface yet, of the sheer number of reasons that this idea is terrible. I refuse to accept that this was given more than a minutes thought by just a tiny handful of devs, and allowed to proceed as far as a forum thread. Everyone now knows that once it has reached that stage, feedback is irrelivent, CCP will do as it wants, this isn't a feedback forum, it's just announcements.
Antoine Halcon Celestial Dragon The Gorgon Empire 28	Posted - 2016.04.08 19:02:21 - [179] - Quote Is this a joke? You are going to break the game. Do you imagine how many people would unsubscribe after that change?
Akrasjel Lanate Naquatech Conglomerate Naquatech Syndicate 1891	Posted - 2016.04.08 19:02:23 - [180] - Quote I'm not sure this is healthy... Akrasjel Lanate Founder and CEO of Naquatech Conglomerate Executor of Naquatech Syndicate Citizen of Solitude
Frunje Elbris Bovine Ltd. 9	Posted - 2016.04.08 19:05:01 - [181] - Quote Not sure if it was mentioned or not, but "dailies" are already implemented in the game for 6 years! They are called Planetary Interaction and are actually designed in such clever way, that OCD completionists are more effective, but clever play may optimize output to be worth time/effort. Is it's gameplay outdated now? YES! So why don't you make an update to already released stuff which is nicely intertwined with core gameplay? Or cannot be Incursions system updated to provide some kind of dailies? Dailies that are meant to be played, not just clicked through? Mental involvement of players with this newly proposed Daily Opportunities is on the "braindead" level. Do you really want your players to behave in this messed up way? Isn't it better to still market eve as the game for "mature and bright players" * ? Because with such features as this one, you really cannot, without risking to be laughed at. Please, give drawing board one more chance with this feature... * Don't worry, everyone sees him/her/itself mature and bright, it won't dive your subscription numbers.
PAPULA Black Aces I N F A M O U S 87	Posted - 2016.04.08 19:06:02 - [182] - Quote This is nice idea, i like it.
Delilah Albertis School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 1	Posted - 2016.04.08 19:06:11 - [183] - Quote Eveline Vos wrote: Pleasure Hub Node-514 wrote: Eveline Vos wrote: I hate this idea so much. Eve is wonderful because it doesn't matter when you log in, or if you have to AFK for a day or month, but this punishes that idea way too hard. Please do not go down this road CCP. CCP isn't taking away passive SP. You can go AFK and still come back to something. Having come to Eve through Dust, I'm perfectly conditioned to both active and passive system (they had a daily mission system there too). Unlike, Dust, you can buy skill injectors off other players at will. But right now, in the game as it is, you can do any activity you want, whenever you want, and any isk you make can be spent on implants or skill injectors for more SP. If they implement this, then you are being forced to do one specific task in order to get the SP reward. This is the opposite of a sandbox... You can still do any activity you want to make isk to buy a skill injector and thereby "reward" yourself with SP. Literally no one is going to force you to do a daily. It's one more avenue should you choose as a method of gaining more SP than the passive amount. Big whoopdy doo. You negative Nancy meatsacks in here seem to not be grasping this concept.
Eli Stan Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 438	Posted - 2016.04.08 19:06:58 - [184] - Quote No. In terms of relative SP gain between characters, this is functionally equivalent to saying every character will have their SP gain penalized unless they kill a rat once every 22 hours. This will make logging in a chore, something that must be tolerated rather than looked forward to. This will make people who can only log in on the weekend reconsider whether they should bother at all. Cycling through the three characters on a single account is a pain. This will make people think "Dammit, I forgot to log on and pop a rat" as they lay down in bed or during some other inopportune time, and they will associate negative feelings with logging in. This does not promote interesting gameplay.
captain foivos State War Academy Caldari State 299	Posted - 2016.04.08 19:07:34 - [185] - Quote You know why their name has to be shortened to Dailies? Because they're Daily Chores, and it would be readily apparent how stupid they are if their full name was spelled out.
350125GO Semper Ubi Sub Ubi 169	Posted - 2016.04.08 19:07:39 - [186] - Quote Is this just some ploy to allow goons to skill up faster while they don't engage anyone in combat? You're young, you'll adjust. I'm old, I'll get used to it.
Pleasure Hub Node-514 Pleasure Hub Hotline 73	Posted - 2016.04.08 19:08:05 - [187] - Quote Eveline Vos wrote: But right now, in the game as it is, you can do any activity you want, whenever you want, and any isk you make can be spent on implants or skill injectors for more SP. If they implement this, then you are being forced to do one specific task in order to get the SP reward. This is the opposite of a sandbox... Hardly the opposite of a sandbox. In terms of SP as a production job, in the context of SP extractor/injectors, people are going to have to get creative with the risks tied to undocking and scoring a NPC kill. As this is per character, rather than per account, players can't have a single grunt to go and fetch all available SP. If you trying to max SP production for harvesting you'll be undocking with expensive attribute implants. Finding safe space and establishing protection networks will require initiative. *'One night hauler'* The tell all story of a pleasure bot in Jita 4-4
FasterThanLight Bahama Investments 0	Posted - 2016.04.08 19:11:10 - [188] - Quote I dont like this idea, because as already stated in this thread it makes eve feel like a freemium micro transaction mobile game. And since im a station trader, i would not benefit from this without leaving jita and im perfectly happy here 0.01 isking my orders. There is only one way i can support this idea: make it available to new players only until they are hooked and have like lets say 5 million sp. Other than that i dont approve. Stop copying other games, they really arent that good. Thats why im here and not playing them.
Fon Revedhort Monks of War Out of Sight. 1094	Posted - 2016.04.08 19:11:11 - [189] - Quote CCP Rise wrote: Hi I'm here to give you guys a heads up that sometime early next week a small daily activity reward feature will be hitting Singularity and will hopefully be making its way to TQ sometime just after Citadel. That's it for now. If this goes well we hope to expand in several ways, but more on that later! Feedback appreciate as always, CCP Rise for Team Size Matters You gentlemen must have totally forgotten what EVE is (rather, was) all about. I'm sorry to say that, but you'll never become World of Spaceships neither this nor any other way. This game used to promote thrill, risk and creativity. It's now safe to say that over the years you've traded it for routine grinding, safety and patterns. The subscription I've been paying over the last 3 years without even playing the game itself has turned out as the worst monetary expenses of my life as, apparenty, it has all gone into CCP buying some high-grade pot. All power to you to have fun while that stock lasts, but I'm out. "Being supporters of free speech and free and open [CSM] elections... we removed Fon Revedhort from eligibility". CCP, April 2013.
Eveline Vos POS Party Ember Sands 15	Posted - 2016.04.08 19:12:47 - [190] - Quote Frunje Elbris wrote: Not sure if it was mentioned or not, but "dailies" are already implemented in the game for 6 years! They are called Planetary Interaction and are actually designed in such clever way, that OCD completionists are more effective, but clever play may optimize output to be worth time/effort. Is it's gameplay outdated now? YES! So why don't you make an update to already released stuff which is nicely intertwined with core gameplay? Or cannot be Incursions system updated to provide some kind of dailies? Dailies that are meant to be played, not just clicked through? Mental involvement of players with this newly proposed Daily Opportunities is on the "braindead" level. Do you really want your players to behave in this messed up way? Isn't it better to still market eve as the game for "mature and bright players" * ? Because with such features as this one, you really cannot, without risking to be laughed at. Please, give drawing board one more chance with this feature... * Don't worry, everyone sees him/her/itself mature and bright, it won't dive your subscription numbers. I actually don't do PI for exactly this reason. If CCP keeps going in this direction, I might not play Eve for exactly this reason.
Tyrendian Biohazard Ubiquitous Hurt The WeHurt Initiative 395	Posted - 2016.04.08 19:15:09 - [191] - Quote Disclaimer - To busy to read all responses currently, but needed to throw in two cents. I'm ok with this concept. It gets people logging in and engaged. However if it is literally Login > Target > F1 > Logoff. I think it isn't that great. Why not have it under the same line of a escalation? Have people fly around a bit, maybe pickup a key for an acceleration gate in one system to be used elsewhere. Something that would get people to be logged in for more than 3 minutes at a time. I think aiming for a person to be on for 15-30 minutes and have to travel a handful of systems would be fantastic. My twitch stream to help new players. CEO of New Hurt: UHURT New Pilot Training Initiative.
dancing ninja J3B Holdings I N F A M O U S 2	Posted - 2016.04.08 19:16:11 - [192] - Quote Please no ccp. I quit WoW because it because daily grind fest, dont make Eve the same thing. People want more SP they can farm rats and buy injectors.
Terranid Meester Tactical Assault and Recon Unit 333	Posted - 2016.04.08 19:18:55 - [193] - Quote What idiot came up with this nonsense of pve>pvp? Forcing pve on people is not the kind of sandbox that eve stands for. Daily rewards for eve belong in the scrapheap. See this unsubscribe button CCP? It seems as though you do not GET eve. Sack the people responsible for this atrocity immediately so no more harm can come from their dumb ideas. CCP stands for one step forwards, two steps back.
Eveline Vos POS Party Ember Sands 15	Posted - 2016.04.08 19:19:48 - [194] - Quote Tyrendian Biohazard wrote: Disclaimer - To busy to read all responses currently, but needed to throw in two cents. I'm ok with this concept. It gets people logging in and engaged. However if it is literally Login > Target > F1 > Logoff. I think it isn't that great. Why not have it under the same line of a escalation? Have people fly around a bit, maybe pickup a key for an acceleration gate in one system to be used elsewhere. Something that would get people to be logged in for more than 3 minutes at a time. I think aiming for a person to be on for 15-30 minutes and have to travel a handful of systems would be fantastic. You want to spend 15-30 minutes a day, per character, chasing pve content in Eve? Because I don't.
Delilah Albertis School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 1	Posted - 2016.04.08 19:20:31 - [195] - Quote dancing ninja wrote: Please no ccp. I quit WoW because it because daily grind fest, dont make Eve the same thing. People want more SP they can farm rats and buy injectors. They can still do that, no one is taking that capability away. Eveline Vos wrote: You want to spend 15-30 minutes a day, per character, chasing pve content in Eve? Because I don't. Then don't? I don't see what mechanic is forcing your play-style to become that.
Hibernator X Zervas Aeronautics The Bastion 41	Posted - 2016.04.08 19:20:52 - [196] - Quote People are way overreacting. This rewards putting your characters in space. Which creates more targets. You can already grind for much more than 10k sp per day through skill injectors. That said we seriously need some details here. It could be cancerous but CCP handled skill injectors fairly well. Have some faith. Honestly though the NPC should be specific and not spawn in highsec.
Turelus Caldari Independent Navy Reserve Curatores Veritatis Alliance 1028	Posted - 2016.04.08 19:21:15 - [197] - Quote Delilah Albertis wrote: Eveline Vos wrote: Pleasure Hub Node-514 wrote: Eveline Vos wrote: I hate this idea so much. Eve is wonderful because it doesn't matter when you log in, or if you have to AFK for a day or month, but this punishes that idea way too hard. Please do not go down this road CCP. CCP isn't taking away passive SP. You can go AFK and still come back to something. Having come to Eve through Dust, I'm perfectly conditioned to both active and passive system (they had a daily mission system there too). Unlike, Dust, you can buy skill injectors off other players at will. But right now, in the game as it is, you can do any activity you want, whenever you want, and any isk you make can be spent on implants or skill injectors for more SP. If they implement this, then you are being forced to do one specific task in order to get the SP reward. This is the opposite of a sandbox... You can still do any activity you want to make isk to buy a skill injector and thereby "reward" yourself with SP. Literally no one is going to force you to do a daily. It's one more avenue should you choose as a method of gaining more SP than the passive amount. Big whoopdy doo. You negative Nancy meatsacks in here seem to not be grasping this concept. That's the thing with all MMO dallies though. You don't HAVE to do them, but they are the quickest path to the best rewards. SWTOR it's for data crystals, ESO it's for item sets/motifs etc. Dailies are designed in a way that you want to do them because they offer something you desire. If these were for LP, there would be no (well fewer, this is the internet) complaints because people who have no need/desire for LP wouldn't do them. However making it the only source of bonus SP which can be added on top of buying skill injectors means players want to do them. Not for the fun or enjoyment of it, but because the rewards are so high. Dailies are a terrible system which have only ever served to help themepark MMO's hold their audience longer while they develop new content. They're not sandbox and they're not what EVE is (or was I guess) about. Lieutenant Turelus - Caldari Independent Navy Reserve - The Fourth District
Circumstantial Evidence 278	Posted - 2016.04.08 19:21:36 - [198] - Quote Mike Azariah wrote: 1) sp from nowhere? nah bro. It is not from no where, tons of it is being 'lost' when people inject in higher level characters. Think of it as sp sinks and faucets. I think SP destroyed by wasteful injection into high SP characters should stay destroyed. Any remainder does not sit in the used injector ready to be sold to someone else. Remaining SP does not go to the SCC, like ISK taxes. Give CONCORD LP instead, and I'll feel better about the idea.
Solarus Explorer The Church of Awesome 29	Posted - 2016.04.08 19:22:20 - [199] - Quote -1 to this idea. Daily grind for sp has a really bad taste to it. You're essentially trying to "force" people to login, similar to how you're trying to "force" people to move trading to citadels by hiking the market taxes manyfold. I cant speak about others, but i'm not liking the direction that eve development seems to be taking.....
Nameira Vanis-Tor Pyre Falcon Defence and Security Multicultural F1 Brigade 351	Posted - 2016.04.08 19:22:38 - [200] - Quote I think this is a good idea, it encourages people to log in and see what's going on. Hell skill injectors introduce more of an element of 'pay to win', bearing this in mind I see no problem with introducing 'play to win' elements.
Drago Shouna Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire 318	Posted - 2016.04.08 19:23:32 - [201] - Quote Lucius Kalari wrote: No thank you, need more reasons for people to get out of high sec, rather than more reasons for them to stay. No thanks, I'm perfectly happy where I am in HS, and besides that, I'm shagging my neighbours daughter so moving will never be an option :)
Delilah Albertis School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 2	Posted - 2016.04.08 19:27:57 - [202] - Quote Turelus wrote: That's the thing with all MMO dallies though. You don't HAVE to do them, but they are the quickest path to the best rewards. SWTOR it's for data crystals, ESO it's for item sets/motifs etc. Dailies are designed in a way that you want to do them because they offer something you desire. If these were for LP, there would be no (well fewer, this is the internet) complaints because people who have no need/desire for LP wouldn't do them. However making it the only source of bonus SP which can be added on top of buying skill injectors means players want to do them. Not for the fun or enjoyment of it, but because the rewards are so high. Dailies are a terrible system which have only ever served to help themepark MMO's hold their audience longer while they develop new content. They're not sandbox and they're not what EVE is (or was I guess) about. Making money in this game is the quickest path to the best rewards. Especially now so with injectors. A measly 3mil SP/yr if you max out your time is not make or break gameplay under this proposed mechanic compared to someone who chooses not to engage in this.
Armark Bether NRDS Anonyme Echoes of Nowhere 0	Posted - 2016.04.08 19:29:42 - [203] - Quote FasterThanLight wrote: I dont like this idea, because as already stated in this thread it makes eve feel like a freemium micro transaction mobile game. And since im a station trader, i would not benefit from this without leaving jita and im perfectly happy here 0.01 isking my orders. There is only one way i can support this idea: make it available to new players only until they are hooked and have like lets say 5 million sp. Other than that i dont approve. Stop copying other games, they really arent that good. Thats why im here and not playing them. Rewarding the opportunities with 1 000 to 10 000 SP would be a better choice imho. Say 1000 SP for the basic stuff like warp, approach, dock and 10k or more for the more important stuff like joining a corp. It doesn't really engage to login every day, but the first ones are easy enough to give a feeling of "this is good, I should complete as much of these as possible". It provides both an instant reward and a more obscure (for a newbro), long-term reward (Do I really need to explain that joining a a corp is th best long-term decision that you can make ?) that keeps a newbie into the game. I personally wanted to quit after my 1st month because I felt like I couldn't improve my gameplay anymore, but doing the stuff that is now in the opportunities made me stick with the game. I'm not CCP nor a game designer, but I feel like keeping a newbro logged is more imprtant than making a seasoned vet login through an artificial, non-lore, out-of-nowhere SP boost.
Rena Monachica Capital Hot Rods 45	Posted - 2016.04.08 19:31:17 - [204] - Quote Quote: we make sure there is one single mechanism that brings new skillpoints in to the system GÇô training. thats a quote from your skill injector dev blog, only a few weeks ago
Hibernator X Zervas Aeronautics The Bastion 41	Posted - 2016.04.08 19:31:22 - [205] - Quote The idea that's sp from nowhere is negligible. Under the current system you can have a dead alt farming sp, plex that account and turn a profit. In a sense this somewhat counteracts that because characters that undock will have an edge over those that simply farm. And it's a low enough amount of sp to not be that big of a deal if you just don't do them.
Bobb Bobbington Bros Before Holes The Devils' Rejects 210	Posted - 2016.04.08 19:32:53 - [206] - Quote But even if the reward 1/10 of what they have proposed people would still be compelled to log in! It's the typical addictive gamer mentality where the player becomes under the impression he has to keep working and logging in to stay competitive, even if that's not necessarily so. It's just a cheap trick employed by themepark MMOs to keep their playerbase addicted to the game, and one which is very much out of place in Eve. This is a signature. It has a 25m signature. No it's not a cosmic signature. Probably. Btw my corp's recruiting.
Glorfinda Elundario Empyrean Bulwarks Circle-Of-Two 0	Posted - 2016.04.08 19:33:02 - [207] - Quote can we also receive a free super of choice every month we log in or 1 free plex every year? I can try imagine promoting activity can be tough but this is taking it too far, this is benefitting way too much on a very wrong way. IF you consider the current system of sp correct dont try to fix it with skill injectors ( oh wait you messed that part up already) makign eve almost pay to win. dont try to break it any further your best asset of advertisement and keeping the game active is havign an awesome game, this adds absolutely nothing to someones game experience it's like giving a kid candy for getting out of bed
Eveline Vos POS Party Ember Sands 15	Posted - 2016.04.08 19:34:20 - [208] - Quote Delilah Albertis wrote: Turelus wrote: That's the thing with all MMO dallies though. You don't HAVE to do them, but they are the quickest path to the best rewards. SWTOR it's for data crystals, ESO it's for item sets/motifs etc. Dailies are designed in a way that you want to do them because they offer something you desire. If these were for LP, there would be no (well fewer, this is the internet) complaints because people who have no need/desire for LP wouldn't do them. However making it the only source of bonus SP which can be added on top of buying skill injectors means players want to do them. Not for the fun or enjoyment of it, but because the rewards are so high. Dailies are a terrible system which have only ever served to help themepark MMO's hold their audience longer while they develop new content. They're not sandbox and they're not what EVE is (or was I guess) about. Making money in this game is the quickest path to the best rewards. Especially now so with injectors. A measly 3mil SP/yr if you max out your time is not make or break gameplay under this proposed mechanic compared to someone who chooses not to engage in this. If you have high SP, and an injector only gives you 150,000 SP, then you can figure out that at 630mil/injector, each SP is worth 4,200 ISK, which means that a daily injection of 10,000 ISK is worth 42mil ISK, for an activity described as "kill one rat". At 300,000 SP/injector, it is still worth 21mil ISK. That reward is WAY too high to ignore.
Mr Floydy Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork 313	Posted - 2016.04.08 19:37:30 - [209] - Quote Not a fan of this idea for much the same reason others are saying. It just adds no meaningful gameplay. If you are trying to promote content why on earth is it NPC only? Make it only apply to NPCs outside of highsec and have pvp kills also count towards it.
Luthien Lituviel Empyrean Bulwarks Circle-Of-Two 4	Posted - 2016.04.08 19:38:10 - [210] - Quote Remember that game called EVE online, the MMO like no other MMO? Well not any longer in the patch after this were gonna be running around systems doing quests. this is one of multipel ways you're breaking some of the specific qualities only eve had/used to have compared to other games
Dirritat'z Demblin Aliastra Gallente Federation 27	Posted - 2016.04.08 19:38:11 - [211] - Quote Feedback? Sure; You are removing, adding and changing mechanics and gameplay-features for month because the offer no meaningful choices to the player. And now you are here and try to sell us the most lazy nobrainer ever introduced to MMOs... Make up your mind! TL;DR Nope.
Lucius Kalari Mass Collapse Ember Sands 40	Posted - 2016.04.08 19:38:12 - [212] - Quote Drago Shouna wrote: Lucius Kalari wrote: No thank you, need more reasons for people to get out of high sec, rather than more reasons for them to stay. No thanks, I'm perfectly happy where I am in HS, and besides that, I'm shagging my neighbours daughter so moving will never be an option :) that escalated quickly
MD74 Ministry of War Amarr Empire 28	Posted - 2016.04.08 19:39:12 - [213] - Quote Just NO. Stop ruining the game. All the long term player have invested time and thus money into their characters, slowly shaping it to their liking. Now you made it possible for people to quickly produce a char by throwing ISK (money) at it. This will result in many people not valueing their character or the game, which possibly results in a larger portion of them soon giving up on the game. Skillpoints are the fruit of the time you invest into this game and should not be this easily available in this or any other way.
Hanna Saissen Caldari Provisions Caldari State 0	Posted - 2016.04.08 19:41:12 - [214] - Quote Daily tasks might be bad or good, and personally I don't feel that forced online numbers are something really worth anything. However SP from nowhere looks completely out of style. Not just reward looks bad, task too. Everyday doing exactly same action is boring. It would be great if devs will overlook and bring daily feature to a reasonable level before launching it. TL;DR: 1. SP from nowhere is bad, don't do it; 2. Same task everyday is bad, don't do it. With all respect, H.S.
Rawthorm D.M.T inc Circle-Of-Two 105	Posted - 2016.04.08 19:41:35 - [215] - Quote So EvE as a Facebook game next? Seriously tho, while the idea itself isn't inherently bad it sends a bad signal as to the direction of the game. The only positive from this idea is to help new players, so why not just introduce it as part of the new player experience and opportunities and have it end there? On a side note, I know as a player base we've been pretty hostile over the last few years, but have you guys at CCP formed a department whose task it is to troll us with ideas like this?
Lykouleon Noble Sentiments Second Empire. 1751	Posted - 2016.04.08 19:41:52 - [216] - Quote I don't like the idea of dailies, but to be honest it's something that really needs to happen to keep the game competitive in the MMO market. However, the idea of SP being the reward gives me a sour taste in my mouth. Lykouleon > CYNO ME CLOSER so I can hit them with my sword
Tipa Riot Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 2358	Posted - 2016.04.08 19:41:55 - [217] - Quote Because there are references to skill injectors, this daily reward is worth between 12.5M (rookie) - 42M ISK (veteran), do you want to miss out? I'm my own NPC alt.
Sir Constantin 49	Posted - 2016.04.08 19:43:10 - [218] - Quote Worst idea ever, and please do not give SP as reward! Let's say Bob is a PVPer and can play 30-40 minute per day, instead of going roaming PVPing or doing something interesting, Bob is gonna use his 30-40 minutes to log in all his chars get the SP and log out. CCPlease, you can find better ways to make people log in.
Aaron Honk Distributed Denial of Service 68	Posted - 2016.04.08 19:43:25 - [219] - Quote CCP please consider this : I played heaps and heaps of MMO that had this "22 hours reset reward". Don't do 22h reset cooldown, instead, make it "once a day, reset at downtime". That way if you can't play every day at the same hour you will still be able to do it. Everyone will thank you.
Naso Aya Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde 72	Posted - 2016.04.08 19:44:24 - [220] - Quote I would rather see a complete re-work of the skills system than see a package that is dropped on rat kills. Rat kills are boring, and this adds an element of required tediousness to a game, which, as many will attest to, can be tedious. Mining is tedious, ratting is tedious, exploration is tedious- to some, even lowsec faction warfare/sov is tedious. This is worse than tedious, because it feels required (some people will see it as such, as have been evidenced in this thread already)- if you want to 'keep up' with everyone else, it's so simple to do, there's no reason not to do it. Thus, it becomes a daily chore, rather than a daily choice, or opportunity. I try to give constructive criticism, so I'll suggest something else as opposed to just complaining. What if the 10,000 xp was limited in where it can be applied to by how it was acquired? Using missiles on a rat allows the 10,000 to be implemented into missiles, flying a specific racial ship allows you to implement it into that particular ratting ship- in other words, encouraging people to not just log in, but to log in for what they want to do already. Make it so I can't implement the skill points into trade, so if I'm a market alt, going out and killing a rat doesn't feel required. I hope it's not buried, but it's just a thought.
Delilah Albertis School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 2	Posted - 2016.04.08 19:44:56 - [221] - Quote Eveline Vos wrote: If you have high SP, and an injector only gives you 150,000 SP, then you can figure out that at 630mil/injector, each SP is worth 4,200 ISK, which means that a daily injection of 10,000 ISK is worth 42mil ISK, for an activity described as "kill one rat". At 300,000 SP/injector, it is still worth 21mil ISK. That reward is WAY too high to ignore. With more SP coming through more avenues, injector prices will adjust accordingly. The market price on a brand new item is not very ideal to base a long term metric off of. PLEX is an astounding example of that but that's an entirely different can of worms.
Yun II KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 0	Posted - 2016.04.08 19:44:58 - [222] - Quote New players are encouraged to undock (even if it is not much). Veterans get more chance to gank the players who undock to get their 10k sp. I don't understand why anyone is complaining.
NovaCat13 Seymourus and Co. 138	Posted - 2016.04.08 19:45:03 - [223] - Quote Serious question CCP; are you high?
Tipa Riot Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 2358	Posted - 2016.04.08 19:46:40 - [224] - Quote Rena Monachica wrote: Quote: we make sure there is one single mechanism that brings new skillpoints in to the system GÇô training. thats a quote from your skill injector dev blog, only a few weeks ago Everybody quote this! I'm my own NPC alt.
Drago Shouna Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire 319	Posted - 2016.04.08 19:50:30 - [225] - Quote Ok.. Can we presume that this is for subbed accounts only? Yes it should be obvious but it hasn't been asked yet. It shouldn't be for every character per account, maybe have it in the redeemable items list so you can choose which one would get it would be better. It should never be pvp based, not everyone can pvp, everyone can pve. (you know what I mean) Hunting around for specific rats would be a pain in the arse, make it any npc, belt, mission, anom regardless of what space you live in.
Bobb Bobbington Bros Before Holes The Devils' Rejects 212	Posted - 2016.04.08 19:50:38 - [226] - Quote Tipa Riot wrote: Rena Monachica wrote: Quote: we make sure there is one single mechanism that brings new skillpoints in to the system GÇô training. thats a quote from your skill injector dev blog, only a few weeks ago Everybody quote this! Better yet just go through and like all the posts that are against the idea, when CCP sees 100 likes on the posts against it maybe they'll rethink it. But either is fine Rena Monachica wrote: Quote: we make sure there is one single mechanism that brings new skillpoints in to the system GÇô training. thats a quote from your skill injector dev blog, only a few weeks ago This is a signature. It has a 25m signature. No it's not a cosmic signature. Probably. Btw my corp's recruiting.
Eveline Vos POS Party Ember Sands 18	Posted - 2016.04.08 19:53:15 - [227] - Quote Delilah Albertis wrote: Eveline Vos wrote: If you have high SP, and an injector only gives you 150,000 SP, then you can figure out that at 630mil/injector, each SP is worth 4,200 ISK, which means that a daily injection of 10,000 ISK is worth 42mil ISK, for an activity described as "kill one rat". At 300,000 SP/injector, it is still worth 21mil ISK. That reward is WAY too high to ignore. With more SP coming through more avenues, injector prices will adjust accordingly. The market price on a brand new item is not very ideal to base a long term metric off of. PLEX is an astounding example of that but that's an entirely different can of worms. As long as extractors, plex, and subscriptions all have a real world value, their value relative to each other will stay similar. Unless of course CCP starts handing out free SP every day.
Anmia Ambraelle The Catalan Grand Company Phoebe Freeport Republic 0	Posted - 2016.04.08 19:54:12 - [228] - Quote Wait... Eve is becoming a facebook game?
sirgath A New Dawn 5	Posted - 2016.04.08 19:56:31 - [229] - Quote CCP Rise wrote: Hi I'm here to give you guys a heads up that sometime early next week a small daily activity reward feature will be hitting Singularity and will hopefully be making its way to TQ sometime just after Citadel. As you guys surely know, having people in game and in space is great and we want to start promoting and rewarding activity a little more directly. The version of the feature we are planning to deploy first will be a simple 10,000 skill point reward that a character will receive the first time they kill an NPC ship every 22 hours. The skillpoints will go into your unallocated pool to be used however you like. You will find the status of your daily skill boost in the Opportunities info panel and you will also receive notifications to let you know when it becomes available. That's it for now. If this goes well we hope to expand in several ways, but more on that later! Feedback appreciate as always, CCP Rise for Team Size Matters Good to hear. Some of us have asking for this for years--better incentives to actually play the game, instead of logging in and queuing up a long skill and just forgetting about the game for a month. This also provides a catch up mechanic outside of the bazaar and injectors, which is great. The best thing about this is that, it's not punitive to those that don't like or agree with it, in that they'll still be able to gain SP at the same rate as before, if they don't want to log in. My hope is that this will be expanded into all other areas of the game, such as PvP, exploration etc.
Quindaster Infernal Laboratory Infernal Octopus 124	Posted - 2016.04.08 19:58:43 - [230] - Quote 10k sp every 22 h - is nothing, absolutely nothing. if it would be for every killed NPC ship or BS, that's would be maybe intresting, and people start to fly around, hunt, run anomalies in lowsec, but every 22h...nothing. No one will notice difference.
Ruby Gnollo 2	Posted - 2016.04.08 19:59:35 - [231] - Quote Evelgrivion wrote: It's the work that goes into what you have in this game that makes flying in space meaningful. Free, useful commodities for logging in and doing effectively nothing will not make you happier with what you have built or what you have destroyed in Eve. The only thing this change will accomplish in the long term is burning people out on a daily grind lest they fall behind for imaginary spaceship points. This change will have the opposite effect for game attachment as CCP intends. Well if the game interface was polished enough to make even the simplest of those things enjoyable, this might be the case. But until Eve comes out of Beta, which will prolly come soon, I'm really happy to be able to get rid of tedious workarounds like start/stopping training queues, using evemon, switching chars, etc. .
Delilah Albertis School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 3	Posted - 2016.04.08 20:00:07 - [232] - Quote Eveline Vos wrote: Delilah Albertis wrote: Eveline Vos wrote: If you have high SP, and an injector only gives you 150,000 SP, then you can figure out that at 630mil/injector, each SP is worth 4,200 ISK, which means that a daily injection of 10,000 ISK is worth 42mil ISK, for an activity described as "kill one rat". At 300,000 SP/injector, it is still worth 21mil ISK. That reward is WAY too high to ignore. With more SP coming through more avenues, injector prices will adjust accordingly. The market price on a brand new item is not very ideal to base a long term metric off of. PLEX is an astounding example of that but that's an entirely different can of worms. As long as extractors, plex, and subscriptions all have a real world value, their value relative to each other will stay similar. Unless of course CCP starts handing out free SP every day. Which is exactly what this sounds like, i.e., handing out free SP (albeit with a modicum of effort) thus injector prices will adjust accordingly.
Kara Burnett EVE University Ivy League 2	Posted - 2016.04.08 20:00:19 - [233] - Quote Please no daily quests. Or daily login rewards or whatever daily mechanic you can steal from generic mmos. A beauty of EvE always was that it lacked those silly little tricks trying to force you to log in or do menial tasks you don't care about. Don't throw that away.
Bobb Bobbington Bros Before Holes The Devils' Rejects 213	Posted - 2016.04.08 20:01:10 - [234] - Quote Now, this is a quote from the Reddit post but it really helps describe the psychological effects of dailies. Quote: You do the dailies because you don't want to miss the dailies, not because you are having fun. All it does is cause people to get burned out of the game quicker, and more boring for those that don't want to kill npcs at all. This is a signature. It has a 25m signature. No it's not a cosmic signature. Probably. Btw my corp's recruiting.
Diana Odo Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State 0	Posted - 2016.04.08 20:05:21 - [235] - Quote As a relatively new player (10.5m SP) that is severely frustrated at the amount of time and sub it takes to pilot even the simplest of ships effectively (just getting into solo-pvp in something like a Hawk takes 60+days with "recommended" skills, fitting skills like weapon upgrades etc at 4 and not 5) even I detest this ridiculous mechanic. While I would definitely like for my Weapon Upgrades 5, Caldari Cruiser 5 etc to finally finish so I can actually have some fun already I would prefer a more elegant solution than just handing out 10k SP for free just because you log in every day. While this system would mean that new players would thrive and essentially just have more fun as a whole and thus feel more inclined to actually sub once their free month runs out, the people who have already played the game for years and are essentially its backbone and the substance that makes it what it is are getting stabbed in the back by this I would think. Thousands of people injecting 10k SP every single day adds up to billions of magical SP appearing out of nowhere in a relatively short time frame. Please give me and other newbros free skill points CCP, but not this way.
MekaJonna Licence To Kill Mercenary Coalition 6	Posted - 2016.04.08 20:05:41 - [236] - Quote Quote: we make sure there is one single mechanism that brings new skillpoints in to the system GÇô training.
Aaron Honk Distributed Denial of Service 69	Posted - 2016.04.08 20:05:45 - [237] - Quote Bobb Bobbington wrote: Now, this is a quote from the Reddit post but it really helps describe the psychological effects of dailies. Quote: You do the dailies because you don't want to miss the dailies, not because you are having fun. All it does is cause people to get burned out of the game quicker, and more boring for those that don't want to kill npcs at all. And when you log in 2 hour late because you needed to stay late at school/work, your schedule with be screwed, and then you will feel like ****.
Dror Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 63	Posted - 2016.04.08 20:05:47 - [238] - Quote Anmia Ambraelle wrote: Wait... Eve is becoming a facebook game? EVE already is a facebook game -- limited progression with the opportunity to purchase advancement. http://i.imgur.com/kJ8EOSn.png "SP is helpful for the game?" Here's all of the research on motivation -- it says the opposite! What purpose does it serve, then? Starter corps are non-competitive. Sov is unchallenged. "Fix sov!" you say? Remove SP.
Sven Viko VIkolander Friends and Feminists 373	Posted - 2016.04.08 20:07:47 - [239] - Quote I think it is a huge mistake to offer skill points for any activity in game. I think it is an even bigger mistake to offer them as rewards for PVE content, in a game where the PVE content is probably its least recommendable feature and something a significant portion of the playerbase does not like to participate in. I do think it is a decent idea to offer certain rewards for logging in or performing some activity every so often, and when this feature was first announced way back in a previous fanfest the rewards discussed were things like standings increases or LP. I would much prefer a different kind of reward for GÇ£Dailies.GÇ¥ This also biases skill training against players who cannot log in very frequently. One of the major selling points of EVE for some players is that it does not have a grind necessary to keep competitive with other players requiring you to log in or complete certain activities on a daily or weekly basis. Many of EVE's players are older professionals who cannot log in every day, and the fact that you don't lose anything but not logging in every day is part of the attraction of the game. This change is a big step toward removing that accessibility for older or busier players.
Armark Bether NRDS Anonyme Echoes of Nowhere 2	Posted - 2016.04.08 20:10:22 - [240] - Quote Quindaster wrote: 10k sp every 22 h - is nothing, absolutely nothing. if it would be for every killed NPC ship or BS, that's would be maybe intresting, and people start to fly around, hunt, run anomalies in lowsec, but every 22h...nothing. No one will notice difference. Nah, that's true, I'm definitely not undocking for 5 HOURS OF ADDITIONAL TRAINING EACH DAY.
Aaron Honk Distributed Denial of Service 73	Posted - 2016.04.08 20:12:43 - [241] - Quote Armark Bether wrote: Quindaster wrote: 10k sp every 22 h - is nothing, absolutely nothing. if it would be for every killed NPC ship or BS, that's would be maybe intresting, and people start to fly around, hunt, run anomalies in lowsec, but every 22h...nothing. No one will notice difference. Nah, that's true, I'm definitely not undocking for 5 HOURS OF ADDITIONAL TRAINING EACH DAY. I can even be more than that when you consider you can now cross train skill you couldn't otherwise (because of remap)
Dror Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 63	Posted - 2016.04.08 20:15:32 - [242] - Quote Sven Viko VIkolander wrote: I think it is a huge mistake to offer skill points for any activity in game. I think it is an even bigger mistake to offer them as rewards for PVE content, in a game where the PVE content is probably its least recommendable feature and something a significant portion of the playerbase does not like to participate in. I do think it is a decent idea to offer certain rewards for logging in or performing some activity every so often, and when this feature was first announced way back in a previous fanfest the rewards discussed were things like standings increases or LP. I would much prefer a different kind of reward for GÇ£Dailies.GÇ¥ What makes it seem like there's any reason to implement log-on benefits beyond SP? That is, what makes it seem like anything is the problem for retention (or log-on trends) except SP? "SP is helpful for the game?" Here's all of the research on motivation -- it says the opposite! What purpose does it serve, then? Starter corps are non-competitive. Sov is unchallenged. "Fix sov!" you say? Remove SP.
Mr Floydy Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork 314	Posted - 2016.04.08 20:18:03 - [243] - Quote Like this post for 10k SP. Quote it for 20k SP.
Tetsel Heretic Army I N F A M O U S 245	Posted - 2016.04.08 20:18:59 - [244] - Quote Dear CCP Rise, I love you concern about my security status which is now -9,99999998963414 I acknowledge you're worried about me reaching the true -10ss I admit those 3, 650, 000 sp/year are appealing. I understand the logic of you wanting me to grind up my status for those shinning free SP, it's a neat incentive. However in the EVE sandbox I'll choose not to do my daily quest with my guild to keep my security status as low as possible. I hope others pilots will enjoy those free instant SP out of nowhere as much as they can. Can't wait to here back from you when you'll annouce those tanky "Legendary Shield Set" for my Rokh (I secretly love the set's bonuses to be over unbalance and make those gate's gun cry) Regards A bitter player. Loyal servent to Mother Amamake. @EVE_Tetsel Another Bittervet Please Ignore
Soleil Fournier Ultimatum. The Bastion 83	Posted - 2016.04.08 20:26:19 - [245] - Quote So the problem with this, as pointed out by other people, is that if you can only log on a few days a week, you fall behind and get punished by missing out on the most important stat of the game. If you are truly married to the idea of SP, it needs to be a weekly not a daily. I worry about this opening pandora's box. SP are important to eve. Don't devalue them.
Maruku Asanari Rascals Brigade 1	Posted - 2016.04.08 20:26:36 - [246] - Quote I think the idea behind this is to make more ships/modules available to new players faster by speeding up skill training. It also somewhat decreases the value of skill injectors. However by getting more SP from nowhere it does what CCP explicitly explained skill injecting would not do. I disagree with this idea because it more or less forces you to go and shoot an npc or you'll be at a disadvantage to those who do. It's telling you what you should do with an amount of the time you spend in the game. Honestly I would undock, go to a belt/anom, shoot 1 rat and then return to station. This isn't meaningful gameplay for people in the PvP community, it's an annoying chore. More experienced PvE players will be indifferent to it as they'll receive it without doing anything extra and mostly will have all the skills they need. The main issue is by involving SP it becomes core gameplay everyone is pressured to do whether they want to or not. If something needs to be put in place to make the game more interesting to newer players it should not be at the expense of the 'sandbox' nature of the game for older ones. In it's current form I think it'd be far more acceptable if it was cut off at around 10M SP, or 6 months of play time, or some other low metric that prevents older players from being affected. Some would still disagree as new players brought up with accelerated SP gains would be used to instant gratification and partially miss out on the experience of being a new player (I for one miss the days when 100mi ISK was mega rich). But it would be more acceptable if it didn't directly involve current players gameplay. On a new player unrelated note if it was for points which could be exchanged for aesthetics such as certain ship SKINs or clothes I (and hopefully others which normally ignore these features) would be more inclined to undock and take part in this feature without the pressure of it affecting core gameplay. Then it would be a choice to save up for a certain SKIN rather than a pressure to do it for SP or train slower than those who do. I don't think this would impact the number of SKINs bought with the current AURUM method too heavily if the number of points is balanced correctly as people who previously ignored them could see multiple they like and not want to wait and save points for each one. My attempt at a helpful post rather than 'TERRIBLE IDEA **** CCP RUINING EVE'
Bobbi Attwell Crimea River. Intrepid Crossing 1	Posted - 2016.04.08 20:26:43 - [247] - Quote How about NO
Paul Brinkhoff Brave Operations - Lollipop Division I N F A M O U S 0	Posted - 2016.04.08 20:27:16 - [248] - Quote No, come on, no.
Rivr Luzade Kenshin. DARKNESS. 2411	Posted - 2016.04.08 20:28:49 - [249] - Quote Nameira Vanis-Tor wrote: I think this is a good idea, it encourages people to log in and see what's going on. Hell skill injectors introduce more of an element of 'pay to win', bearing this in mind I see no problem with introducing 'play to win' elements. It does not. It trains people to log in, do their daily task to get their bonus and log off again. That is not the kind of activity this game needs. At all. Rena Monachica wrote: Quote: we make sure there is one single mechanism that brings new skillpoints in to the system GÇô training. thats a quote from your skill injector dev blog, only a few weeks ago UI Improvement Collective My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Eveline Vos POS Party Ember Sands 23	Posted - 2016.04.08 20:30:32 - [250] - Quote Soleil Fournier wrote: So the problem with this, as pointed out by other people, is that if you can only log on a few days a week, you fall behind and get punished by missing out on the most important stat of the game. If you are truly married to the idea of SP, it needs to be a weekly not a daily. I worry about this opening pandora's box. SP are important to eve. Don't devalue them. They already did this with Skill Injectors. You make isk when you have time to do so and buy injectors. I don't need CCP deciding how I get to play in the sandbox, and a reward too good to pass up is exactly that.
Dror Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 63	Posted - 2016.04.08 20:31:48 - [251] - Quote Maruku Asanari wrote: I disagree with this idea because it more or less forces you to go and shoot an npc or you'll be at a disadvantage to those who do. So, SP should just be nonexistent because it forces paying real money or there being a disadvantage for those who don't? "SP is helpful for the game?" Here's all of the research on motivation -- it says the opposite! What purpose does it serve, then? Starter corps are non-competitive. Sov is unchallenged. "Fix sov!" you say? Remove SP.
Hairpins Blueprint The Northerners Northern Coalition. 183	Posted - 2016.04.08 20:35:51 - [252] - Quote So now force every one to login and kill a rat wil all toons? Lol man, this is not chianise server
Mixu Paatelainen League of Non-Aligned Worlds Snuffed Out 226	Posted - 2016.04.08 20:36:07 - [253] - Quote Seems cool. Will make a massive difference to newbies in their first days. Thumbs up.
Snoooow Hard Knocks Inc. Hard Knocks Citizens 5	Posted - 2016.04.08 20:36:38 - [254] - Quote I used to play World of Warcraft before Eve and things like this are the reason I play Eve now. In World of Warcraft, in order to progress your character as fast as possible, you _have to_ do certain things every day/week like: * Doing all your Tanaan dailies so you can get reputation as fast as possible. * Running LFR every week (at least at the start of the patch). * Running Flex/Heroic/Mything every week. * Using your daily profession cooldowns every day. * Claiming the free stuff in your garrison every day. Yes, you are probably correct that things like 'shoot a rat', 'hack a can', etc will provide a positive benefit to the game by getting more players out in space. However, I think you're underestimating the negative effects of this change from players who: * Feel disappointed when they can't log in for a day and miss out on the daily SP. * Feeling bored/annoyed when they log in when they didn't want to just to kill a rat, hack a can and log off. * Feel bored/annoyed because they (like all Eve players) optimize things and are on their nth day of logging in every pilot on all of their accounts to kill a single rat instead of doing what they want to do. I can think of two similar, alternative ideas that I think most Eve players would be okay with. 1: All players under 5m SP gain SP from these daily tasks, but not afterwards. This means that this change will help new players progress faster, but it solves two issues. Not being able to get SP after 5m SP means that you can't extract SP from this, so Vets won't feel like they have to farm SP on all of their characters every day. Not being able to get SP after 5m SP means that newbros won't feel as bad about missing a day because they're just pushing out reaching 5M sp a little further, not missing out on free SP forever. 2: Each opportunity in the opportunities map provides an SP bonus on completion. This means that newbies will experience a more positive reward from doing Opportunities. Although with this solution it is optimal for Vets to do every opportunity on all of their characters, there's a finite limit to how much work they'll have to put in before they can stop feeling forced to do things they don't want to. In summary, please consider one of the above suggestions which limit the bonus to new players so that Veteran players don't feel forced to do things they don't want to on all of their characters every day. Not all of your players will be in the mood to play your game every day of their lives, and mechanics like this, while they do benefit others by having more pilots in space, just make players feel disappointed for missing out on SP they can never earn, or frustrated when they play when they really want to do something else.
Barrogh Habalu Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire 1120	Posted - 2016.04.08 20:39:50 - [255] - Quote Weeell... I kinda like sp bonus, who doesn't. But now I will be disadvantaged if I can't log every day. Kinda problematic considering that eve, while requires long-term commitment, also allows you to play at your pace with no ill effects on your competitiveness. My tinfoil tells me that devaluing SP a bit is what this change may seek to accomplish, but that's nothing but wild guess. Future of T3 cruisers - multi-tool they aspired to be instead of sledgehammer they have become
Ashlar Vellum PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 235	Posted - 2016.04.08 20:39:56 - [256] - Quote lol, 10 out of 10. Fantastic idea.
Maruku Asanari Rascals Brigade 1	Posted - 2016.04.08 20:40:51 - [257] - Quote Dror wrote: Maruku Asanari wrote: I disagree with this idea because it more or less forces you to go and shoot an npc or you'll be at a disadvantage to those who do. So, SP should just be nonexistent because it forces paying real money or there being a disadvantage for those who don't? In my opinion you pay real money for the access to the game, and accumulating SP and doing nothing more with that access is the choice of the player.
Psychodad Sarain Calibrated Chaos Triumvirate. 15	Posted - 2016.04.08 20:45:06 - [258] - Quote hmm, Eve is becoming the new Star Wars Galaxies, and will have a similar fate if this keeps up.
Dror Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 63	Posted - 2016.04.08 20:46:44 - [259] - Quote Maruku Asanari wrote: Dror wrote: Maruku Asanari wrote: I disagree with this idea because it more or less forces you to go and shoot an npc or you'll be at a disadvantage to those who do. So, SP should just be nonexistent because it forces paying real money or there being a disadvantage for those who don't? In my opinion you pay real money for the access to the game, and accumulating SP and doing nothing more with that access is the choice of the player. The spirit of that original post is that being at a disadvantage hampers subscription interest in the game. Skill points come with those subscriptions, and they're required to do everything. It would be true that player interest in a sandbox game comes from the ability to efficiently play the sandbox to its potential. "SP is helpful for the game?" Here's all of the research on motivation -- it says the opposite! What purpose does it serve, then? Starter corps are non-competitive. Sov is unchallenged. "Fix sov!" you say? Remove SP.
Milostiev Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel 3	Posted - 2016.04.08 20:48:19 - [260] - Quote PLEX = 1030m isk PLEX = 30d x 24hs = 720hs / month Cost of account, in isk / hour = 1030/720 = 1.43m isk / hour Activity bonus (at 2200 SP / h average, conservative rate) = 10000/2200 = 4.55hs equivalent of game time training. 4.55 x 30 cycles (conservative calculation, 24h cycles) = 136.5 hs 136.5x 1.43 = 195.2m isk / month (300k SP) ISK / login to kill 1 NPC = 4.55x1.43m isk = 6.51m isk If done on 3 characters, then 6.51x3 = 19.53m isk / 5-10min work If per character, this means that we just got, each, 600m isk / account for free, for logging into hi-sec, and killing 1 npc in belts. This is probably not addressed to older players, who might have characters with more than 5.5m SP in all slots, and who will just keep it or remove it through skill extractors to gain the value of the SP on market. While from that perspective, it is a more interesting development, this kind of change does go against the very spirit of the game. Remember allowing ISBoxer users in EVE ? This is that kind of change, good short term, bad long term for the spirit of the game. This is the kind of change that makes you realize what soulless monsters marketing ppl are.
Soleil Fournier Ultimatum. The Bastion 86	Posted - 2016.04.08 20:50:45 - [261] - Quote Eve is unique. Daylies and weeklies are not. They are cheap gimmicks used by most other games to get people 'content.' If you are relying on weeklies to get people to login and undock, you are doing it wrong. This does not fit eve. Period. What would fit eve, is giving out SP for completing different 'sets' of opportunities. Or having SP drop as loot 'chips' that people could buy/sell, but having a maximum number per month you could inject. That creates a new market. That is eve. Other people suggested capping at 5 or 10 million SP. And to be clear, I don't like any SP bonuses in game because it devalues SP. I'm just offering suggestions that are less-worse, not good. Say no to daylies/weeklies guys, it's not eve, and it shouldn't become eve.
Aldent Arkanon Jump Drive Appreciation Society 1	Posted - 2016.04.08 20:51:26 - [262] - Quote Can we have a raid finder next? Seriously, this is an incredibly dumb idea.
Nana Skalski Poseidaon 8157	Posted - 2016.04.08 20:51:31 - [263] - Quote Give Aurum, not SP. I need more clothes, not training. ( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ =ƒÅ¦ - my sandcastle Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
ISD Betula Ermanii ISD RUS 118	Posted - 2016.04.08 20:51:41 - [264] - Quote Daily activities -good. Reward - need revise. Seriously, it's first feature for 8 years of playing EVE what I dislike. ISD Betula Ermanii Lieutenant -Æ-+-+-+-+-é-æ-Ç -¦-Ç-â-+-+-ï -+-+ -¦-+-¦-+-+-+-¦-¦-¦-ü-é-¦-+-Ä -ü -+-¦-Ç-+-¦-¦-+-+ Interstellar Services Department
Monsieur Pognon School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 0	Posted - 2016.04.08 20:51:42 - [265] - Quote clearly, i'm against that thing, or at least in the form it is. if you want to reward player that make content, do it on things that matters, not shooting a NPC, and don't make it a daily thing, as most of players arn't able to log daily. ideas : way of rewardining : some kind of +1/all atributes cerebral accelerator for 1 week/month, should be apporx the same ammount of SP/ month but you don't really have to do it EVERY SINGLE DAYS, and as a bonus you can use it and makes market activities things to do : link x enthosis nodes this week/month get x final blows one players ships (rookiesips?) this week/month mine x m3 of ore/ice this week/month have x ISK worth of sell/buyorders (cumulate?) get x ISK in bounties maybe something for PvP logi pilots .... maybe do a pregress bar that fill up every times you complete theses activities, once it full you get your reward. bar empties automatically 7/30 days after beeing filled, same way as jump clones or remaps
HandelsPharmi Pharmi on CharBazaar 1798	Posted - 2016.04.08 20:52:33 - [266] - Quote Snoooow wrote: 1: All players under 5m SP gain SP from these daily tasks, but not afterwards. This means that this change will help new players progress faster, but it solves two issues. Not being able to get SP after 5m SP means that you can't extract SP from this, so Vets won't feel like they have to farm SP on all of their characters every day. Not being able to get SP after 5m SP means that newbros won't feel as bad about missing a day because they're just pushing out reaching 5M sp a little further, not missing out on free SP forever. I like this idea. Cap it at approx. 5M SPs and we are fine. Even if you log in EVERY day, you will get 300k SPs = 60 % of a skill injector or approx. 360M ISK "for free" (opportunity costs etc. ignored).
Savant Alabel Raging Angels Pure Blind Cartel 49	Posted - 2016.04.08 20:52:43 - [267] - Quote After thinking - anything, but free sp. isk, AK, any other item,

CCP Rise C C P C C P Alliance 5470	Posted - 2016.04.08 20:54:55 - [268] - Quote Thanks for all the feedback (except telling me to go to hell, that's rude). Just posting to let you guys know we are reading all of it and even if takes a couple days we will definitely follow up with as many answers as possible. Keep it coming. @ccp_rise

Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 27209	Posted - 2016.04.08 20:57:35 - [269] - Quote CCP Rise wrote: Thanks for all the feedback (except telling me to go to hell, that's rude). Just posting to let you guys know we are reading all of it and even if takes a couple days we will definitely follow up with as many answers as possible. Keep it coming. Have you considered not trying to bribe players just to artificially inflate your key performance metric?
Nyalnara The Unchained Club No Handlebars. 211	Posted - 2016.04.08 20:58:32 - [270] - Quote Altrue wrote: EDIT: Hey how about you make the actual new player opportunities give unallocated SP instead? You know, to provide meaningful rewards to a crash-course system that got completely stripped of them. That. Please do that instead. French half-noob. [TUC] The Unchained Club, corpo école PvP francophone, recrute des débutants sans pré-requis. N'hésitez pas et venez nombreux, on a des biscuits!
Scatim Helicon GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3388	Posted - 2016.04.08 20:58:36 - [271] - Quote Luthien Lituviel wrote: Remember that game called EVE online, the MMO like no other MMO? Well not any longer in the patch after this were gonna be running around systems doing quests. this is one of multipel ways you're breaking some of the specific qualities only eve had/used to have compared to other games It'll be good experience to add to his CV when he's applying to another games developer though. Post on the Eve-o forums with a Goonswarm Federation character that drinking bleach is bad for you, and 20 forum warriors will hospitalise themselves trying to prove you wrong.
Nana Skalski Poseidaon 8157	Posted - 2016.04.08 20:59:22 - [272] - Quote Maybe not daily system but rather activity count meter that will give you dank concord items and ammo and stuff and even more, but not SP. ( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ =ƒÅ¦ - my sandcastle Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
Scatim Helicon GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3388	Posted - 2016.04.08 21:03:34 - [273] - Quote ISD Betula Ermanii wrote: Daily activities -good. Reward - need revise. Seriously, it's first feature for 8 years of playing EVE what I dislike. When even the ISDs are coming out against new features you know you have a problem. Post on the Eve-o forums with a Goonswarm Federation character that drinking bleach is bad for you, and 20 forum warriors will hospitalise themselves trying to prove you wrong.
Maruku Asanari Rascals Brigade 1	Posted - 2016.04.08 21:03:53 - [274] - Quote Dror wrote: The spirit of that original post is that being at a disadvantage hampers subscription interest in the game. Skill points come with those subscriptions, and they're required to do everything. It would be true that player interest in a sandbox game comes from the ability to efficiently play the sandbox to its potential. I agree with both of these points. "The spirit of that original post is that being at a disadvantage hampers subscription interest in the game. Skill points come with those subscriptions, and they're required to do everything" - However part of EVE is accepting that you have less SP than somebody who has played far longer than you. As a 6 month old player I'm fully aware of that. But another main aspect of EVE is that teamwork most often overcomes this advantage older players have, i.e. 5 new players in a fleet can beat a lone 5 year old player. CCP has been trying to make low SP roles interesting with the new frigate and destroyer ships, and I think they've done a pretty good job at that. "player interest in a sandbox game comes from the ability to efficiently play the sandbox to it's potential" - By giving more SP away it may increase the diversity of ships and roles a player can use faster increasing potential in that regard, it decreases the potential to play the sandbox in the way in which you want to at all times and feeling the freedom accompanying that.
Dror Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 63	Posted - 2016.04.08 21:05:00 - [275] - Quote CCP Rise wrote: Thanks for all the feedback (except telling me to go to hell, that's rude). Just posting to let you guys know we are reading all of it and even if takes a couple days we will definitely follow up with as many answers as possible. Keep it coming. As always, the team's ideas for improving SP and the NPE are super creative, and it's obvious that this has potential. The perma-loss character idea is still interesting, btw. It's on CCP to fully employ what they understand about motivation. If there are barriers to a perfect game, it is their prerogative and best interest to fix them. Not people. Not beings. Enjoy. "SP is helpful for the game?" Here's all of the research on motivation -- it says the opposite! What purpose does it serve, then? Starter corps are non-competitive. Sov is unchallenged. "Fix sov!" you say? Remove SP.
captain foivos State War Academy Caldari State 309	Posted - 2016.04.08 21:11:59 - [276] - Quote Tippia wrote: CCP Rise wrote: Thanks for all the feedback (except telling me to go to hell, that's rude). Just posting to let you guys know we are reading all of it and even if takes a couple days we will definitely follow up with as many answers as possible. Keep it coming. Have you considered not trying to bribe players just to artificially inflate your key performance metric? this is for you
biz Antollare Suddenly Carebears 127	Posted - 2016.04.08 21:14:50 - [277] - Quote Approximately how many dailys will it take for me to get my exalted CCP mount?
Kashell Makanen Errant Endeavours Sev3rance 1	Posted - 2016.04.08 21:15:33 - [278] - Quote Please, do not add Dailies to EvE. It is the cheapest, grindiest way of pissing off and burning out your players to get artificial, meaningless player activity. Take this idea, apply it directly to the Career agents, or as rewards for new characters completing steps on the Opportunities grid. It bridges the gap for new players but has diminishing returns for veteran characters. Reward the newbies for taking the chance to explore the game, while letting them put their unallocated SP into skills and professions they find they like.
Doctor EjaBig Second Battlegroup Nerfed Alliance Go Away 1	Posted - 2016.04.08 21:17:34 - [279] - Quote is April 1st different in Iceland than the rest of the world,
Doctor EjaBig Second Battlegroup Nerfed Alliance Go Away 1	Posted - 2016.04.08 21:19:08 - [280] - Quote no Aur over skill
Sal Askiras Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 2	Posted - 2016.04.08 21:20:39 - [281] - Quote Dailies? Fine. LP reward? No. ISK reward for something like this seems much less exploitable, and more in line with other PVE activities. I do agree that the rather useless Opportunities system needs SOME kind of reward, rather than just "Bing! You're done!" A small LP reward would be great for this.
Nistromos Jan Inc 0	Posted - 2016.04.08 21:22:34 - [282] - Quote Turelus wrote: Not a fan of SP rewards by completion of tasks. One of the things I enjoyed about EVE Online was it wasn't a game about grinding to get ahead of others (like every other MMO I played) players who didn't have the time to log in every single day were always on the same footing (in SP terms) as everyone else. I know there were/are already ways around this with buying characters and now skill injectors. If people want to have more SP then have them grind ISK and buy injectors, not by making this into a "power up by logging in every day" game. As someone who has played many other MMO games I can also tell you that daily tasks is the most soul crushing and boring addition to any MMO. Yet we do them because they're needed for some reason, no one ever enjoys dalies. Edit to add some more to this. Right now this is a very simple task, log in kill one NPC and get reward. However this is how the slope starts, as more dailies are added and with rewards not obtainable anywhere else and much in desire (like SP) you "have" to do them, it's part of our mentality to do them. So you have your five minuet kill a rat daily, then comes the 5min mine some ore daily, then the 5-20min get a PvP kill daily... Eventually you end up with the same system every MMO has. Players are logging in and spending their first hour or two of game play doing dailies. Not because they enjoy the content, but because they "have to" if they want the best rewards. EVE Online is meant to be a sandbox game, you're meant to log in and do something you want, to make your own content and rewards. Adding daily quests alone would be fine, however making it the only way to earn extra SP each day is forcing players to do them. That's where this breaks EVE for me. Honestly this whole idea is something I literally (and I mean the real use of the word) thought I see CCP come up with. It's not anything at all of what EVE is about. I guess EVE is evolving with the times, however I'm not sure I like what it's becoming. Spot on cant put it any better way than that.
Oxide Ammar 244	Posted - 2016.04.08 21:23:28 - [283] - Quote I like this idea, only nerds that find themselves self entitled to this game are disapproving. Lady Areola Fappington: -áSolo PVP isn't dead!-á You just need to make sure you have your booster, remote rep, cyno, and emergency Falcon alts logged in and ready before you do any solo PVPing.
Aelavaine University of Caille Gallente Federation 65	Posted - 2016.04.08 21:27:01 - [284] - Quote Thanks for sharing this idea. I hope it doesn't find its way on TQ. This thread brings me back to an idea from an other thread. Just create a second server for the casuals, where you can buy skill points with aurum, nobody can gank you etc. and keep TQ uniq with its rules. Support the freedom to go wherever you want. Support Walking in Stations!
Aden Ordinii Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation 11	Posted - 2016.04.08 21:27:08 - [285] - Quote No...skills should be made by players...not exp from shooting npc`s! I hope CCP, you will overthink this again.
HandelsPharmi Pharmi on CharBazaar 1799	Posted - 2016.04.08 21:31:29 - [286] - Quote CCP Rise wrote: Just posting to let you guys know we are reading all of it and even if takes a couple days we will definitely follow up with as many answers as possible. Keep it coming. I am pretty sure, this is not a discussion, it is the soft way to tell us, what the management has decided.
Maruku Asanari Rascals Brigade 1	Posted - 2016.04.08 21:33:04 - [287] - Quote Oxide Ammar wrote: I like this idea, only nerds that find themselves self entitled to this game are disapproving. Care to elaborate? I think what we feel entitled to isn't the game itself, it's our own time. And by pressuring us to do dailies with something such as SP, it makes us spend it a certain way. The freedom to do what we want within the game at all times is something valued by many players, and part of what makes EVE different. And we're not nerds, we are to nerds what nerds are to normal people. (Anybody else here know that reference?)
Ravcharas Infinite Point Violence of Action. 449	Posted - 2016.04.08 21:34:04 - [288] - Quote I think introducing sp tokens is a great idea. I really do. But not tied to some kind of daily jump-through-a-hoop thing. Exploration sites, player wrecks, rare belt spawns maybe; sure. Frozen body reprocessing; absolutely. (Plus, highsec is still where most npc kills happen, right? Is highsec pve really where an increase in activity will mean an increase in player to player interaction? And this is not promoting in-space activity, really. If you wanted to promote that the drop should come at the end of an extended activity, not at the start of a trivial one.)
Scatim Helicon GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3391	Posted - 2016.04.08 21:35:21 - [289] - Quote It's not even that this is a game breakingly terrible idea, though the motives are laughably transparent. What's more worrying is the lack of imagination and lack of faith in the core product it betrays, there's a clear trend amongst the current generation of devs of taking ideas they've seen other developers use in other games and attempting to graft them on to Eve. Hence we see a skins shop for personalising our avatars, Capture The Flag sovereignty mechanics and now a proposal for daily quests. CCP has gone from being a developer known for innovation, to a developer known for imitation. Post on the Eve-o forums with a Goonswarm Federation character that drinking bleach is bad for you, and 20 forum warriors will hospitalise themselves trying to prove you wrong.
Thalamus Echerie Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective 0	Posted - 2016.04.08 21:35:52 - [290] - Quote Excellent for us newbros!
Chjna the Goose Flock 9	Posted - 2016.04.08 21:37:00 - [291] - Quote Now we just need to be able to buy clothing and other worthless stuff for real money too, for this to be like all the other ****** mmos ...oh wait. Can we get a insta teleport to Jita module aswell? I give this one star on a scale of two to five. Remove T2 BPOs
Terranid Meester Tactical Assault and Recon Unit 333	Posted - 2016.04.08 21:37:56 - [292] - Quote HandelsPharmi wrote: I am pretty sure, this is not a discussion, it is the soft way to tell us, what the management has decided. They couldn't manage a pissup in a brewery then.
Black Pedro Yammerschooner 2344	Posted - 2016.04.08 21:39:25 - [293] - Quote This is a half-baked idea that should go back to the drawing board. The SP boost from the Blood Raiders event was good as it got people out hunting, farming and fighting over the SP bonus. But shooting a single rat? How is that going to add any conflict or content to the game? That bar is so low it is not interesting, not limited so players will not have to fight over them. It is literally push-button-receive-bacon. That will get very old very quickly and players will burn out. If you want to reward people for undocking and engaging in trivial, and absolutely safe PvE content, do it with LP or ISK. Save the SP for PvE that is limited and his likely to generate player interactions (not just player-NPC interactions) and perhaps as one-time rewards for completing opportunities to help new players. Adding what is literal tedium for established players to do something, like shooting a single rat, that is not going to have any added benefit to the greater game is just inane. Such rewards should make players want to, and actually shoot each other to get. Finally, Eve is suppose to be a sandbox game and forcing on players the low bar of shooting a rat a day to be forced to keep up with progression with absolutely no other option is against the fundamental idea of the game. In a sandbox game, how does it make sense that an industrialist has to shoot something to train a skill? Or a trader? Making it such that the only way to progress at maximal rate is to shoot a NPC, an activity I bet only a minority of active characters do in a given month, is completely ham-fisted. Try again. This is poorly thought out. Why Do They Gank?
Recessio DobCo Industries 1	Posted - 2016.04.08 21:39:39 - [294] - Quote Just for killing an NPC? Hmmmm.....
Venduris Altiir Modus Grau 0	Posted - 2016.04.08 21:41:33 - [295] - Quote I must say, I dislike the idea of having to log in everyday to keep up. Especially if it is only to kill a rat. If you want to change it, why would killing a rat help me to train, let's say industries? If you want a reward system, why not directly connected to the skill you want to train: killing a rat only gives you SP for the weapons and ships you are using, industry jobs only for industry skills and so on. But still I wouldn't like this idea. If you implement something like this, why don't you separate: theoretical skills, which you only get over time (the actual skills) and practical skills, which you only get if you use your skills. This way, everybody would profit since not the time online but the way you use it would be the determing factor.
Trah Tibidoh Archaic Smile Academy Weyland Industries. 0	Posted - 2016.04.08 21:44:38 - [296] - Quote welcome to korean mmorpg If this works - i cancel my subscription
Tavin Aikisen Phoenix Naval Operations Phoenix Naval Systems 387	Posted - 2016.04.08 21:45:00 - [297] - Quote Not sure how I feel about this. I like the rewards for being active, but I wonder if it would be better to give a bonus to skill training time for completing activities relevant to the skill you are training, rather than just giving a lump sum of skill points. That way people are encouraged to do relevant activities and skill strategically queue their skills? "Remember this. Trust your eyes, you will kill each other. Trust your veins, you can all go home." -Cold Wind
Ravcharas Infinite Point Violence of Action. 449	Posted - 2016.04.08 21:45:51 - [298] - Quote Quote: ItGÇÖs very important to note here that this means all the skillpoints available to buy on the market in EVE will have originated on other characters where they were trained at the normal rate. Player driven economies are key to EVE design and we want you to decide the value of traded skillpoints while we make sure there is one single mechanism that brings new skillpoints in to the system GÇô training. https://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/skill-trading-in-new-eden/ So not to play the gotcha game here or anything -- like I said I'm fine with sp tokens as long as it's reasonably implemented. But what changed in less than three months to warrant another mechanism to add sp to the game? Is it to counter the relative sp loss of extractors/injectors?
Oxide Ammar 245	Posted - 2016.04.08 21:46:11 - [299] - Quote Maruku Asanari wrote: Oxide Ammar wrote: I like this idea, only nerds that find themselves self entitled to this game are disapproving. Care to elaborate? I think what we feel entitled to isn't the game itself, it's our own time. And by pressuring us to do dailies with something such as SP, it makes us spend it a certain way. The freedom to do what we want within the game at all times is something valued by many players, and part of what makes EVE different. And we're not nerds, we are to nerds what nerds are to normal people. (Anybody else here know that reference?) Dude, that crap went way back when CCP introduced the idea of selling SP in market with extractor/injectors. CCP is doing a favor to that game by reducing barriers to new players to the game. All what I see here are nerds with 80+ mill SP disliking that idea. Lady Areola Fappington: -áSolo PVP isn't dead!-á You just need to make sure you have your booster, remote rep, cyno, and emergency Falcon alts logged in and ready before you do any solo PVPing.
Xeron Vann Concordiat Spaceship Samurai 3	Posted - 2016.04.08 21:47:31 - [300] - Quote SP for opportunities: good idea. SP daily for ratting: bad idea Have it be a one-time thing so newbro groups can say "hey, guy that just joined us, while you're training our doctrines, go do the opportunities. They'll teach you the game AND give you skill points to make the train faster" Incentivize learning about the game so you can do more in the game, but don't turn it into a daily grind.
Axhind Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation 111	Posted - 2016.04.08 21:48:53 - [301] - Quote Swiftstrike1 wrote: So much hate for this on the front page... I think it's a great idea. It's such a great idea that a lot of other games have been doing it for years already. Sucks a bit for supercapital pilots who won't benefit due to being trapped in their space coffins, but pretty soon they'll be able to build a citadel, park their e-peen, and go kill a rat in relative safety if it bothers them that much :) And yet all those games are doing worse than eve. Although that might change with the way CCP is going. Great thing with EVE is that you don't have to log in. I want to log in when I feel like logging in and playing eve. Even if it is to do something tedious like logistics or ratting. The moment this is implemented all of us will feel pressure to log in every day and that's a sure way to getting burned out and stop playing. EVE has grown (at least before CCP went full insane with fozzie sov and related changes) where others have dropped. It was unique and still is but obviously CCP is trying to make it into WoT or WoWS with recent changes. I doubt that emulating F2P games is going to go well when combined with subscription fees like EVE has. I guess it's the good old greed is good and super short term thinking that we all love CCP for.
Delilah Albertis School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 3	Posted - 2016.04.08 21:49:20 - [302] - Quote Maruku Asanari wrote: Oxide Ammar wrote: I like this idea, only nerds that find themselves self entitled to this game are disapproving. Care to elaborate? I think what we feel entitled to isn't the game itself, it's our own time. And by pressuring us to do dailies with something such as SP, it makes us spend it a certain way. The freedom to do what we want within the game at all times is something valued by many players, and part of what makes EVE different. And we're not nerds, we are to nerds what nerds are to normal people. (Anybody else here know that reference?) This line of thinking is absurd and ridiculous. No one is pressuring you to do a thing. You're playing this game on your own time to fulfill your enjoyment. It's a bonus. Do you realistically think the entirety of the eve population is going to do this and if you don't it's going to leave you in the dust? Hardly. The population of eve is too lazy for everyone to be skill farming all the time, most won't care, some will use it so that they can rat better faster, and the players who know wtf about anything know that SP do not translate into you being a better player. There is no super cool advantage someone is going to gain over someone else that can't be waited out a few extra days because farming sucks and my time doing other things is more valuable. There is way too much emphasis in this thread on press the button get the cheese. Have some self control, enjoy other aspects of the game, that SP bonus? Maybe it'll get you there 2 weeks faster or whatever, hurray. The cost of that is now you're having less fun. I'll wait the two weeks out. You want to skill farm? Awesome, be my guest, I hope it opens up new ways to enjoy the game for you! The freedom of choice to do either is all that's happening here.
Eveline Vos POS Party Ember Sands 31	Posted - 2016.04.08 21:52:36 - [303] - Quote Xeron Vann wrote: SP for opportunities: good idea. SP daily for ratting: bad idea Have it be a one-time thing so newbro groups can say "hey, guy that just joined us, while you're training our doctrines, go do the opportunities. They'll teach you the game AND give you skill points to make the train faster" Incentivize learning about the game so you can do more in the game, but don't turn it into a daily grind. Hey look, an idea that actually provides benefit to newbros, without creating mandatory CCP dictated daily quests!
ISK IRON BANK I Want ISK Corp 52	Posted - 2016.04.08 21:52:57 - [304] - Quote Wow so much mad in here over a daily achievement.... Seriously who cares if they introduce a daily.. do them or don't, nobody is forcing this upon you. If EVE has taught you anything, it is life aint fair, so HTFU and evolve.
Pestillium Xtrata Shipyards Solyaris Chtonium 0	Posted - 2016.04.08 21:53:50 - [305] - Quote You can't claim to be a sandbox MMO and attempt to dictate the daily game play of your player base. I login and motivate my self to rat, or to mine, or to PVP, or to trade, or to explore is because it's what I want to do in the sandbox at that time. Rewarding me for specific kinds of game play that is encouraged on a daily basis is why traditional MMORPGs burn me out. The big problem, the reason that this pigeon-holes game play, is the fact that this reward is SP, there is no easy way to get incremental gains in SP other than this daily system. I already feel like I'll log in on my market alts and PI alts to kill one rat a day because I feel like if I don't I'm missing out of SP that they deserve. This is exactly what killed WOW and other MMOs for me, the combination of two negative feelings that daily quests bring; 1) The feeling that I am missing out when I don't do the daily quests on all of my characters, and (2) the eventual realization that the majority of my daily game play has become monotonous and dictated by the daily quest system. This is a bad road for EVE to follow, don't look to the "success" that other MMOs have had with systems like these, instead embrace the philosophy that has made this game as successful as it has been so far. Instead, work towards less depraved ways of attracting players to play your game on a daily basis. Instead, work to improve on the systems that already exist so that more players are compelled to include them in their daily sandbox experience.
Ovidian Nardieu The Scope Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2016.04.08 21:56:21 - [306] - Quote Dailies are fine. SP rewards are not. Dailies will work well if, like the Christmas event, they get people moving around through systems going to sites everyone can see as valuable and go have a fight at or at least compete for (even if one can only get the special bonus for completing that site once a day). But they HAVE to be a multiplayer experience. None of this every one of my characters must now warp to a belt kill a rat and warp back to station/safe. That's a single player experience, the grind that sucks. SP should never be a reward for in game activity. As it stands, all subscribers are equally enfranchised in the production of SP. Isk and less tangible gains (like killmarks, sov, or whatever; I'll just call these material position) are produced by gameplay. This is what lets me play for material position when I have time without my lack of time compromising my innate ability to play for material position. The ability to purchase sp with isk doesn't change this holy division between passive production of sp and the active production of isk, between my innate production of ability (SP) and my active attempts to use that ability (gameplay). But activity based sp rewards would destroy this holy division of production, classifying players/characters by activity instead of subscription, and requiring certain behaviors for optimal play. The result would be the gamification of eve. We say EVE is real. But it wouldn't be real without the strict inability of players to produce ability. And fwiw, the lack of a grind and corresponding ability to play irregularly has kept me playing EVE far longer than I have ever played another mmo.
Drak Fel Blackwater USA Inc. Pandemic Legion 94	Posted - 2016.04.08 21:57:47 - [307] - Quote WoW
Delilah Albertis School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 3	Posted - 2016.04.08 21:57:59 - [308] - Quote Pestillium wrote: The big problem, the reason that this pigeon-holes game play, is the fact that this reward is SP, there is no easy way to get incremental gains in SP other than this daily system. I already feel like I'll log in on my market alts and PI alts to kill one rat a day because I feel like if I don't I'm missing out of SP that they deserve. This is exactly what killed WOW and other MMOs for me, the combination of two negative feelings that daily quests bring; 1) The feeling that I am missing out when I don't do the daily quests on all of my characters, and (2) the eventual realization that the majority of my daily game play has become monotonous and dictated by the daily quest system. Just because it's available to you certainly doesn't mean you are entitled to it or deserve it. The fact that you have determined that behavior for yourself is your fault alone, not the game's.
Magdalina Anais Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 1	Posted - 2016.04.08 21:58:08 - [309] - Quote I sincerely hate daily quests. I quit playing WoW because of them. Basically this means you gotta login every char on every account every day of the week, every week of the year or miss out (or loose) on 3.4m SP. Did I mention I hate daily quest grinding? I think this is a Fully useless addition to a game that prides itself on actions have consequences. This is what people do on their mobile phone to keep 'em occupied while important stuff happens in eve. I sincerely dislike this idea. Especially it's complete lack of use. I mine to get minerals. I train to be able to do stuff. I rat for isk. And this? Is some bejeweled clone like keeping-me-busy thingamadooey. Just make it optional and let me click once a week or so for my free SP... :(
Arcturus Ursidae Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation 11	Posted - 2016.04.08 21:58:19 - [310] - Quote It pains me to say it, because I thought I would be ok with it but I don't like it. The implementation of the idea at least. As a casual player Eve can bit Grindy sometimes but generally I am ok with that. The thought that I have to log into perhaps three characters to kill an npc every 22hours is a little too much. The task isn't interesting or challenging and the reward is controversial. Why do it then, it's only 10000 skill points isn't it. Meh. My main has 126m skill points, a skill injector is 600m Isk and gets me 150,000 skill points that's 4000 Isk per skill point so 10,000 skill points is a 40m reward per day or an injector is 15 days of shooting an npc every 22hours. I will think on it and post something more constructive soon.
Dror Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 63	Posted - 2016.04.08 21:58:53 - [311] - Quote Axhind wrote: And yet all those games are doing worse than eve. http://i.imgur.com/LUBFKH1.jpg [inb4 semantics] Pestillium wrote: You can't claim to be a sandbox MMO and attempt to dictate the daily game play of your player base. . Welcome to SP. "SP is helpful for the game?" Here's all of the research on motivation -- it says the opposite! What purpose does it serve, then? Starter corps are non-competitive. Sov is unchallenged. "Fix sov!" you say? Remove SP.
KitCat 01 True Xenon Inc. Je Suis Stunt Flores 5	Posted - 2016.04.08 22:01:28 - [312] - Quote How desperate are you to force people to undock to do something as stupid as warping to a belt, kill an NPC and dock back in station? ... With every single charcter !!
Maruku Asanari Rascals Brigade 1	Posted - 2016.04.08 22:04:41 - [313] - Quote Oxide Ammar wrote: Maruku Asanari wrote: Oxide Ammar wrote: I like this idea, only nerds that find themselves self entitled to this game are disapproving. Care to elaborate? I think what we feel entitled to isn't the game itself, it's our own time. And by pressuring us to do dailies with something such as SP, it makes us spend it a certain way. The freedom to do what we want within the game at all times is something valued by many players, and part of what makes EVE different. And we're not nerds, we are to nerds what nerds are to normal people. (Anybody else here know that reference?) Dude, that crap went way back when CCP introduced the idea of selling SP in market with extractor/injectors. CCP is doing a favor to that game by reducing barriers to new players to the game. All what I see here are nerds with 80+ mill SP disliking that idea. First thank you for replying A lot of the anger surrounding the skill injectors died down once people understood that SP was not being added to the game, but being moved around between characters. This mechanic is different in that the SP is generate from nowhere, and while you can do anything in EVE to get the ISK to buy SP injectors, you're forced to do a certain task to get the SP from this. (kill a rat, in this case) I have around 15 mill SP myself. However a lot of older players will dislike this idea as they don't do PvE anymore, and they don't want to be pressured to. If it was capped at 5 or 10 mil SP it wouldn't concern them so much in my opinion. (yet new players still benefit)
Mara Villoso Long Jump. 108	Posted - 2016.04.08 22:04:55 - [314] - Quote This is bizarre. In most games, the reward for daily quests is loot. We already get the loot/isk for shooting the NPC. This is a clear case of Malcanis' Law: "Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of GÇÿnew playersGÇÖ, that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players." Ratters everywhere thank you.
Kerodan Alduin EVE University Ivy League 4	Posted - 2016.04.08 22:09:37 - [315] - Quote Ovidian Nardieu wrote: Dailies are fine. SP rewards are not. And fwiw, the lack of a grind and corresponding ability to play irregularly has kept me playing EVE far longer than I have ever played another mmo. Exactly the same is true for me. I like the way Eve is different from other MMOs. I don't think that dailies will change how I play Eve. I'm in the game as often as I do find time to do so (which isn't very often on an absolute scale because of this RL thing). Dailies won't be able to coerce me to devote more time to the game. But they will lead to a disadvantage for my character compared to other player's characters, who have more spare time on their hands. Thus I'm against the idea as presented. Skill boosts for newer players would be greatly appreciated, though.
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 17592	Posted - 2016.04.08 22:11:11 - [316] - Quote Quote: Lallante In short, I cant see a reason this would be bad... except the usual CHANGE IS BAD, EVE IS DEFINED BY HOW IT WAS TWO YEARS AGO AND SHOULDNT CHANGE FROM THAT crew. No I don't suppose you can It's like this: Firstly, it's always been a great strength of EVE that grinding is purely optional. Your skillpoints tick away whether you're PvPing, farming rats, updating market orders or in fact have something to do in real life, like go to goddamb work. Secondly, whatever problems EVE has are unlikely to be fixed by importing the lowest grade of skinner-box mechanics from a game that's dying at an even fast rate. If CCP want to give new players an SP boost, then they can give low-grade skill injectors as a one time per account reward for completing tutorial missions, and follow that up by reworking the SP system to ignore stats and just give a flat 2500 per hour, replacing attribute implants with cheap "skill type" learning implants (eg: +5/10/15/20% SP speed to all spaceship command skills). Then if they're feeling particularly useful, going through the skill list and look for those goddamb "mandatory" skills like eg: Gunnery or Drones, factoring in the item stats so that the skill bonuses to level 4 are built in, and the skill bonus is reduced to 1/5 or 1/4 what it was (So for example, Gunnery, which adds a 2% RoF to all turrets instead adds 0.5% RoF per level, but all turrets have their RoF improved by 8% to compensate). Ditto Power Grid Management, Launchers, etc. Or alternatively, decide that all sounds way too much like actual work, and just spend the whole morning playing Fallout 4, have 3 pints for lunch, spend 15 minutes typing up a proposal to straight up steal an unmodified cheap, unimaginative, lazy skinnerbox mechanic from the biggest cesspool of cheap, unimaginative, lazy skinnerbox mechanics in MMOland and ram it into a game based on entirely incompatible principles, then bog off home early to beat the traffic. "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
Kibitt Kallinikov Crimson Serpent Syndicate Heiian Conglomerate 17	Posted - 2016.04.08 22:11:29 - [317] - Quote Looks like someone's taking a page out of DUST 514's design... I like it though. My primary concern is how much you want to shift SP gain in terms of activity. 10k SP daily is significant for a trivial task, so if you scale this up by adding more tasks with or tiered rewards... well, it may become a little silly in terms of just how powerful these objectives are. I like that these give newer players something to do in order to speed up their progress. I didn't consider sinking 500mil into an injector to be a realistic objective for players that have no clue how to make money and likely gain upwards of 200k/hr - this provides them with a steady way of going out and measuring small amounts of success. For older players, this is cute and sometimes people want more SP but ultimately SP doesn't really break anything, and I would've killed to have something like this when I first started out.
Elmis The ill-advised Hermit Collective 15	Posted - 2016.04.08 22:11:42 - [318] - Quote It can be easy to log into EVE without a plan, spin your ship a few times, then log out. I personally find if I start off my EVE sessions with some small task - like running PI, clearing an anomaly or whatever, that the session is more likely to be a longer productive one. Things tend to happen once you have undocked. This mechanism encourages you to undock and is basically available to every player not camped into their station. It is also a mechanism you can ignore if you want. Overall I support the idea. It would be good to have extra triggers as already mentioned, such as mining or exploration, but I wouldn't want it to be overly complicated.
Niko Lorenzio United Eve Directorate 600	Posted - 2016.04.08 22:15:19 - [319] - Quote CCP Rise wrote: Thanks for all the feedback. Just posting to let you guys know we are reading all of it and even if takes a couple days we will definitely follow up with as many answers as possible. Keep it coming. You mean like you followed up on SP trading discussion? The CSM XI Election are now open until March 25th, 2016. Consider Niko Lorenzio for CSM XI. CSM matters, your voice matters, your vote matters!
Niraia Nocturnal Romance Cynosural Field Theory. 405	Posted - 2016.04.08 22:16:45 - [320] - Quote Remember when you were a new pilot, and there were all these big ships in the game, it was all very immersive, so you got really invested and subscribed for years so that some day in the future you could fly them? I miss that. It's one of the factors that contributed to me paying a subscription for 10 years. If the game isn't currently rewarding without giving people rewards for playing, then I seriously fear for its future, or at least the future of your most loyal players. Maybe you should concentrate on making the game better instead? GÖÑ
Amarisen Gream Divine Demise Apocalypse Now. 232	Posted - 2016.04.08 22:19:54 - [321] - Quote OKAY! First - This needs to be account based. Second - SP isn't the best, but also isn't the worst. Third - there needs to be a pool that the activity can stack up (say 5 max) so people who can't always log on can still have time to get the rewards. Everything this program does, needs to be focused on getting players out of stations and interacting with each other. if that means PVP or PVE, that doesn't matter, but it needs to get people out and mingling. "The Lord loosed upon them his fierce anger All of his fury and rage. He dispatched against them a band of Avenging Angels" - The Scriptures, Book II, Apocalypse 10:1 DIDE- is open to new members
Indahmawar Fazmarai 5012	Posted - 2016.04.08 22:20:40 - [322] - Quote Huh... guess that I'm puzzled about this. In one hand, it doesn't feels like it fits in EVE. On the other hand, well, 10,000 SP/day would be 10,000 SP/day more than I get from playing the game my way and not in some other way. And apparently could get them just for killing a rat in a belt as I mine. Pennies from heaven to say so. In one hand, it's nice that CCP does something for PvErs for a change. On the other hand, the actual goal is to provide more targets to PvPrs, so PvErs are just being exploited. In one hand, it's better than nothing. On the other hand, feels like buying a sticker for the patient's coffin after he spent three days in the ER waiting room. Dammit, I am really puzzled. If I was a wife and CCP was a husband, I would tell him: "Do as you wish, honey". Guess this summarizes my opinion...
space gator Adhocracy Incorporated Adhocracy 63	Posted - 2016.04.08 22:23:50 - [323] - Quote Please count me in the disliking this daily grind/reward crowd.
Zappity Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde 2813	Posted - 2016.04.08 22:28:07 - [324] - Quote I'm ambivalent about this. I can see what you are trying to do but am not convinced that NPC kills are the way to go. Maybe if you were rewarding activity that would keep new players in the game, such as trying sa variety of activities or joining a corp. SP for site completion would be utterly terrible. Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
George Gouillot Black Fox Marauders 98	Posted - 2016.04.08 22:29:12 - [325] - Quote Come on - you can do better. Every player that logs in @ 1300 or 0100 gets a Fedo. #pimppcuevenifitkillsthegame
Lan Wang Knights of the Posing Meat FETID 2611	Posted - 2016.04.08 22:30:38 - [326] - Quote and what about the people who arent interested in pve? FETID now recruiting pvp pilots & corporations \| lowsec pvp & piracy - Join FETID Loyalist to Angel Cartel & Serpentis
Dror Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 63	Posted - 2016.04.08 22:34:45 - [327] - Quote Niraia wrote: Remember when you were a new pilot, and there were all these big ships in the game, it was all very immersive, so you got really invested and subscribed for years so that some day in the future you could fly them? I miss that. It's one of the factors that contributed to me paying a subscription for 10 years. If the game isn't currently rewarding without giving people rewards for playing, then I seriously fear for its future, or at least the future of your most loyal players. Maybe you should concentrate on making the game better instead? The majority of fresh play is obviously much less than that.. or there would be no patch to the NPE. The idea of the game being unrewarding is that fresh play is shown a paywall. "It's supposed to be a sandbox" -- thus, "a better game". "SP is helpful for the game?" Here's all of the research on motivation -- it says the opposite! What purpose does it serve, then? Starter corps are non-competitive. Sov is unchallenged. "Fix sov!" you say? Remove SP.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 27216	Posted - 2016.04.08 22:34:55 - [328] - Quote Ok. I'll be constructive. Obviously, the intent behind this massively braindead fucktardedness is that CCP feels EVE lives and dies by the online player count and they want to boost that. To do so, they will bribe players with the one thing that cannot be mechanically acquired in any other way: time, as expressed in SP. They do this by rewarding the most horrible type of gameplay the game has to offer: hunting the most uninteresting type of opponent the entire MMO segment of the games industry has on offer. I understand the first part: the felt need to inflate numbers (never mind that this last week has already demonstrated with resounding clarity what is needed for that to happen: war; conflict; interaction; action). What makes absolutely no sense whatsoever is everything else, since it is unevenly applied, pointless, incoherent, and unrelated to the activities that demonstrably draw people in. So how do you achieve your goal without any of that cretinous and short-sighted design incompetence? Simple: just do the same thing without tying it to any kind of action. During each downtime, tally the accounts that have been online for 15+ minutes since the last downtime. Those accounts get credited with a 10k SP token in their redemption queue, to be applied to any character the player chooses. Or better yet, don't hand out SP GÇö just realise what it is that actually make people log in and put your effort into improving those parts of the game. Somewhere along the line, you forgot that conflict is what drives the game. Embrace it; improve it; encourage it.
Ripard Teg Snuff Box Snuffed Out 1258	Posted - 2016.04.08 22:35:31 - [329] - Quote Just to clarify: the SP will be given only to the character that gets the final blow on the NPC, no matter how many are shooting at it? aka Jester, who apparently was once Deemed Worthy To Wield The Banhammer to good effect.
Eveline Vos POS Party Ember Sands 33	Posted - 2016.04.08 22:36:11 - [330] - Quote Lan Wang wrote: and what about the people who arent interested in pve? It would appear CCP doesn't care about you. This isn't a sandbox anymore, so you'd better get on the theme-park ride and like it. /s
Rykki Atruin Independant Praetorian Corp Union of Allied Independant Corporations 294	Posted - 2016.04.08 22:36:32 - [331] - Quote I would love to see this: within a 24 hour period (downtime to downtime) you get rewarded up to a total of 10k SP for being exposed in space (no POS spinning, no AFK cloaking) based on how long you were undocked. You get rewarded for being in space and able to be interacted with by other players. The reward isn't huge, but it is an incentive and it doesn't matter what you are doing, just that you're in space doing something Semi-nomadic corp seeking new and veteran players
Dror Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 63	Posted - 2016.04.08 22:39:29 - [332] - Quote Rykki Atruin wrote: I would love to see this: within a 24 hour period (downtime to downtime) you get rewarded up to a total of 10k SP for being exposed in space (no POS spinning, no AFK cloaking) based on how long you were undocked. You get rewarded for being in space and able to be interacted with by other players. The reward isn't huge, but it is an incentive and it doesn't matter what you are doing, just that you're in space doing something .. Why not just give the SP if the player loses a ship.. really reinforcing the enjoyment of that ding sound. "SP is helpful for the game?" Here's all of the research on motivation -- it says the opposite! What purpose does it serve, then? Starter corps are non-competitive. Sov is unchallenged. "Fix sov!" you say? Remove SP.
Eveline Vos POS Party Ember Sands 33	Posted - 2016.04.08 22:39:35 - [333] - Quote Rykki Atruin wrote: I would love to see this: within a 24 hour period (downtime to downtime) you get rewarded up to a total of 10k SP for being exposed in space (no POS spinning, no AFK cloaking) based on how long you were undocked. You get rewarded for being in space and able to be interacted with by other players. The reward isn't huge, but it is an incentive and it doesn't matter what you are doing, just that you're in space doing something Cool, I'll just afk my characters in shuttles in backwater nullsec or un-wardec'd HS or something while I'm at work. Any system implemented will be gamed to high heaven.
Vincent Athena V.I.C.E. 3810	Posted - 2016.04.08 22:41:14 - [334] - Quote Ive thought about how this will play out for me, and I don't like it. The idea of being "encouraged" to log in 9 characters every day? Ick Ick Ick. I want to log in to have fun, not because I feel like I'll miss out if I don't. Please do not implement this feature. If you explain what you are trying to accomplish with this feature, maybe we can come up with better ideas. Just getting more people on line? This is a poor way, as killing one NPC takes little time. People would just log in, do the deed, and leave. The on-line number will barely budge. So, whats going on here? Know a Frozen fan? Check this out Frozen fanfiction
Maruku Asanari Rascals Brigade 2	Posted - 2016.04.08 22:43:58 - [335] - Quote Delilah Albertis wrote: Maruku Asanari wrote: Oxide Ammar wrote: I like this idea, only nerds that find themselves self entitled to this game are disapproving. Care to elaborate? I think what we feel entitled to isn't the game itself, it's our own time. And by pressuring us to do dailies with something such as SP, it makes us spend it a certain way. The freedom to do what we want within the game at all times is something valued by many players, and part of what makes EVE different. And we're not nerds, we are to nerds what nerds are to normal people. (Anybody else here know that reference?) This line of thinking is absurd and ridiculous. No one is pressuring you to do a thing. You're playing this game on your own time to fulfill your enjoyment. It's a bonus. Do you realistically think the entirety of the eve population is going to do this and if you don't it's going to leave you in the dust? Hardly. The population of eve is too lazy for everyone to be skill farming all the time, most won't care, some will use it so that they can rat better faster, and the players who know wtf about anything know that SP do not translate into you being a better player. There is no super cool advantage someone is going to gain over someone else that can't be waited out a few extra days because farming sucks and my time doing other things is more valuable. There is way too much emphasis in this thread on press the button get the cheese. Have some self control, enjoy other aspects of the game, that SP bonus? Maybe it'll get you there 2 weeks faster or whatever, hurray. The cost of that is now you're having less fun. I'll wait the two weeks out. You want to skill farm? Awesome, be my guest, I hope it opens up new ways to enjoy the game for you! The freedom of choice to do either is all that's happening here. This isn't going to be the only daily added. A feature like this will at least have another reward for: - PvP kill - Mining - Exploration site and maybe one for: - industry job starting - Completing a mission - Planetary Interaction So even if the rewards were all the same that's at least 40,000 SP a day, and the PvP one should probably be worth more than the ratting one plus there'll probably be more than the minimal, so you could possibly get more SP this way than you do at the normal rate? (don't know how many we get a day) And while even then you can argue you don't have to do all that, it still encourages this style of play where you tick the daily boxes off since the incentive is at that point much greater to follow orders than to try think of something unique to do yourself. Some people do dailies since they pop up in their face before they sit down and actually think of what they'd like to do. Mindless, meaningless gameplay is easier to do than anything which requires interaction or creativity from the player, and a reward only compounds this tendency away from a more community focussed style of play.
Oxide Ammar 246	Posted - 2016.04.08 22:45:08 - [336] - Quote Jeez, this is what CCP gets for spoiling players decade who think themselves elitists enough to dictate what comes and goes in a game. Lady Areola Fappington: -áSolo PVP isn't dead!-á You just need to make sure you have your booster, remote rep, cyno, and emergency Falcon alts logged in and ready before you do any solo PVPing.
Boom Boom Longtime EVE Corporation 6908469858 Heroes and Villains. 1313	Posted - 2016.04.08 22:45:34 - [337] - Quote I feel for those who work at CCP and care for the core principles of the original game who are being instructed to impose these awful changes on the game by the corporate element. Daily questing for SP in Eve Online? Where will it stop? In before CCP offer a subscription model where you pay more to get default enhanced training time like gold in world of tanks. Concord Approved Trader
Indahmawar Fazmarai 5013	Posted - 2016.04.08 22:45:36 - [338] - Quote Lan Wang wrote: and what about the people who arent interested in pve? They will have to bear with the whole of nullsec, lowsec, wormholes, bounty, wardec and dueling mechanics, factional warfare, capital ships, Citadels, POCOs, and all the other few fucktons of PvP content in the game. Poor pity you. Don't like PvE and there's so little else to do in game!
Lobster Bisque hirr Northern Coalition. 3	Posted - 2016.04.08 22:45:51 - [339] - Quote I seriously hate this idea. One of the reasons that EVE appealed to me in the first place is because I'm an adult with a limited amount of time to play the game, and I had all but sworn off MMOs because they were too time consuming. I grew to hate the endless grind of the typical MMO (I've played a few). These are generally games that don't respect my (limited) time. Then I hear about EVE and it's really different from the standard MMO: you don't have to grind for XP because you'll be training it at the same rate as everyone else while you're busy doing real life stuff. No more mindless fetch quests (okay no one really does courier missions do they?), no more logging in just to do dailies. It was a great feeling to know that while I was busy with school or work that I wasn't falling behind. My character was still advancing just as quickly as everyone else's! Busy with midterms / finals at university? No problem put on a long skill and focus on the important stuff. On vacation for two weeks? Gallente Cruiser V here I come! Super busy at work? I should train capitals finally... The enhanced skill queue features only further enhanced this. Now I don't have to wake up at weird times or move skills in/out of the queue to make sure it keeps going. This is a game that respects my time. Skill injectors changed the game a bit, but they in no way feel compulsory and have pretty serious diminishing returns, but introducing a feature that makes the player feel like they need to login and perform menial tasks (daily on all 9 chars? No thank you) is taking EVE a step in the wrong direction. One of the reasons EVE is so appealing to adults, is because it isn't nickle and diming us for our precious time. We can login when we can and do what we want with our time. Enjoy the sandbox! Maybe you don't shoot rats ever, or mine... maybe you just fly around and tour the galaxy? I know I read an article where someone's elderly Grandpa toured space just taking in the scenery. Maybe you spend 80% of your time in spreadsheets or external tools. These are equally valuable activities that CCP isn't going to be able to track and reward. A system that rewards players who can login every single day (on all their characters no less) and perform a set of very non-sandboxy tasks goes against the spirit of the game. Please rethink this.
Samsara Nolte Random Thinking Union Random Thinking 35	Posted - 2016.04.08 22:51:48 - [340] - Quote Snoooow wrote: I used to play World of Warcraft before Eve and things like this are the reason I play Eve now. In World of Warcraft, in order to progress your character as fast as possible, you _have to_ do certain things every day/week like: * Doing all your Tanaan dailies so you can get reputation as fast as possible. * Running LFR every week (at least at the start of the patch). * Running Flex/Heroic/Mything every week. * Using your daily profession cooldowns every day. * Claiming the free stuff in your garrison every day. Yes, you are probably correct that things like 'shoot a rat', 'hack a can', etc will provide a positive benefit to the game by getting more players out in space. However, I think you're underestimating the negative effects of this change from players who: * Feel disappointed when they can't log in for a day and miss out on the daily SP. * Feeling bored/annoyed when they log in when they didn't want to just to kill a rat, hack a can and log off. * Feel bored/annoyed because they (like all Eve players) optimize things and are on their nth day of logging in every pilot on all of their accounts to kill a single rat instead of doing what they want to do. I can think of two similar, alternative ideas that I think most Eve players would be okay with. 1: All players under 5m SP gain SP from these daily tasks, but not afterwards. This means that this change will help new players progress faster, but it solves two issues. Not being able to get SP after 5m SP means that you can't extract SP from this, so Vets won't feel like they have to farm SP on all of their characters every day. Not being able to get SP after 5m SP means that newbros won't feel as bad about missing a day because they're just pushing out reaching 5M sp a little further, not missing out on free SP forever. 2: Each opportunity in the opportunities map provides an SP bonus on completion. This means that newbies will experience a more positive reward from doing Opportunities. Although with this solution it is optimal for Vets to do every opportunity on all of their characters, there's a finite limit to how much work they'll have to put in before they can stop feeling forced to do things they don't want to. In summary, please consider one of the above suggestions which limit the bonus to new players so that Veteran players don't feel forced to do things they don't want to on all of their characters every day. Not all of your players will be in the mood to play your game every day of their lives, and mechanics like this, while they do benefit others by having more pilots in space, just make players feel disappointed for missing out on SP they can never earn, or frustrated when they play when they really want to do something else. This above mentioned way to implement this feature is the sole and only one i could get behind - Because i got quite a fair number of people in this game and tried to support them in their first steps, and the one things bothering them the most (bothered the wits out of me when i started too) was the fact, that in takes forever until you can do something worthwhile in eve. You actually start counting the seconds until your skills complete - and the proposal from above would help diminsh this unastisfying experience a great deal. But anything more than this i-¦m against with every fibre of being - and this comes from one who is practically online every single day ... i-¦ dont like to be forced to do something. And giving us 5h of free training time outside of our attribute spec for doing somehting daily is nothing else (for us who live to min max) than to force us and there are way to many downsides to you CCP forcing us to log in - then let-¦s be honest the EVE community consists of us the ones who practically invented min-maxing - and if i can-¦t min max, in this case, get SP daily for completing the activities i-¦m gonna get dissatisfied and when that reaches a certain point your intended incentive to get people to log in will have the opposite effect and i won-¦t log in eventully never again. And i certain i-¦m not the only player that feels that way - reading this thread to this point already told me i-¦m not - I-¦m not the only one who is gonna lie in bed and think about the missed skillpoints because i wasn-¦t able to log in for this day ... don-¦t know what a week where i can-¦t log in is gonna do ... So my advice - reconsider this feature especially in this proposed form !
Dror Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 63	Posted - 2016.04.08 22:54:48 - [341] - Quote Samsara Nolte wrote: Missing SP seems like a problem? It's a wonder how all those fresh subs feel.. "SP is helpful for the game?" Here's all of the research on motivation -- it says the opposite! What purpose does it serve, then? Starter corps are non-competitive. Sov is unchallenged. "Fix sov!" you say? Remove SP.
Soltys Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 124	Posted - 2016.04.08 22:59:26 - [342] - Quote CCP Rise wrote: As you guys surely know, having people in game and in space is great and we want to start promoting and rewarding activity a little more directly. The version of the feature we are planning to deploy first will be a simple 10,000 skill point reward that a character will receive the first time they kill an NPC ship every 22 hours. The skillpoints will go into your unallocated pool to be used however you like. That's not promoting activity, that's a bait to get people to log in (most likely for the sake of important "login" metric), spank a mob and log off. Solo and as quickly as possible. So if that daily was giving 10k ISK tell me - how many people would lift a finger to even move a mouse to log in ? So if ISK (or LP, or RNG box with T1 module) is not working, how the hell is that promoting any activity ? But it's not ISK, it's everyone's favorite brain gooo: SP. So many will take the bait "too not lose the most important resource" and diligently rotate through all their accounts and alts, spank a mob and log off as fast as possible - despite hating doing that (and get ready for forum bitching for myriad of reasons). Day by day. Congratulations, you just created the worst ** polluting today's mmos (because it's near effortless to implement and plays on primitive human weakness) - dailies. Don't do this, mkay ? If you want to give people SP, find better ways - something more intelligent and EvE fitting than "kill a mob to push XP bar to the right". And to emphasise: it's not about SP. It's about the cancer called dailies. And regarding your implementation - 22 hours rotation ? That's the worst imaginable way to do it. Just make it reset at some hour so people can do it whenever the time permits, not in a narrow ever-shrinking 2- hour window. Jita Flipping Inc.: Solmp / Kovl**
Alle Monte Singularity Consortium 6	Posted - 2016.04.08 22:59:30 - [343] - Quote I like this. Thanks CCP.
Seraph Essael eXceed Inc. 1176	Posted - 2016.04.08 23:06:41 - [344] - Quote Delilah Albertis wrote: Seraph Essael wrote: Selling out... Selling out to who, the big record companies that they signed a 5 album deal with for 100 million dollars? I don't you quite understand the notion of "selling out". Pleas look up the term. I can't help you to understand it if you don't know what it means. It doesn't just translate into record companies... It's the notion that you compromise your integrity and/or principles in exchange for a personal gain... like for example...money. Quoted from Doc Fury: "Concerned citizens: Doc seldom plays EVE on the weekends during spring and summer, so you will always be on your own for a couple days a week. Doc spends that time collecting kittens for the on-going sacrifices, engaging in reckless outdoor activities, and speaking in the 3rd person."
plasticsurgerycandidate2 Viziam Amarr Empire 4	Posted - 2016.04.08 23:07:29 - [345] - Quote Sorry man, but this is a terrible idea. - Feeling forced to log in each day to get your sp - Feeling like you're missing out when you can't log in or forget - Forcing characters that have nothing to do with pve to undock and find an asteroid belt to get their sp - Forcing characters with highly valuable implant sets to risk them for their sp (think what titan/super pilots have) - Will benefit those that stay home from the front lines to rat more than those that deploy for wars - Easier for more skilled players to do as they can 1 volly a npc on their chars whereas newbie players will have to commit several minutes to finding a npc, then killing it. - Newbie players won't realize they can do it on all 3 chars on their account regardless of if they're training. - Newbie players won't necessarily have 3 chars on their account to do it with as they don't realize it's beneficial. - Creates SP out of thin air instead of earning them by spending time training or buying them from someone that spent time training - Penalizes FCs/CEOs/Diplomats/Etc... that don't have the time to undock and find a npc to shoot because they're too busy with other important stuff. - Rewards players for doing next to nothing. Seriously, logging in a char, warping to a belt, killing a npc, and logging out is not going to create content for the game. - Significantly increase the load on the auth servers when chars are logging in and out a lot more frequently. - Keeps players in highsec longer as it's super easy to kill npcs there, whereas lowsec and nullsec npcs might be more challenging. - Greatly impacts the "play how you want" mentality by forcing players to engage in activities they have no interest in or get penalized. - Undermines eve's progression mechanics further than skill injectors already did. - Penalizes those that value their -10 sec status. - Penalizes characters stuck in supercaps (because they don't have a citadel they can dock at) - Penalizes wormhollers that have to scan down a k-space hole and kill a npc outside of w-space each day. - etc... It's a terrible idea that leads to a slippery slope. - SP should be earned through training (either by you or someone else you buy the sp off of) - Forcing players to log in all their characters each day to get extra sp will lead to burnout (i know it won't be sustainable for me with 30 characters, about 21 are just alts for other activities (cynos, etc...)) - Should be limited to new players if introduced at all. CCP Rise wrote: Feedback appreciate as always Sure it is... just like our feedback on the market tax changes was appreciated.
Ololo Trololo Killing Intent Out of Sight. 0	Posted - 2016.04.08 23:11:40 - [346] - Quote Very much it is pleasant to me! I am excited!! It would be desirable that for murder of NPC in lou and in null space gave slightly more SP than in hisec. For example 20k lou 30k null. Because there it is more dangerous to fly. And the award has to be higher.
Tikktokk Tokkzikk Wilderness Unsubbed 301	Posted - 2016.04.08 23:11:47 - [347] - Quote You get 3.65m SP per character per year. I have four accounts for a total of 12 characters or 43.8m SP. At current value of skill injectors, that is 36 BILLION ISK per year for me. Optimized, I'd spend 2-5 minutes per character logging in, finding a rat and killing said rat or 24-60 minutes per day total. At current skill injector prices, that's 100-200m/h which is arguably the best ISK/h you can get with no investment or risk and I'd be stupid to pass up on it. It will also be soul crushingly boring gameplay and likely to burn me out of Eve, which I'd think is the opposit of the intended effect.
X Mayce Manson Family Advent of Fate 4	Posted - 2016.04.08 23:13:42 - [348] - Quote +1 Manson Family Advent of Fate
plasticsurgerycandidate2 Viziam Amarr Empire 4	Posted - 2016.04.08 23:14:06 - [349] - Quote Tikktokk Tokkzikk wrote: It will also be soul crushingly boring gameplay and likely to burn me out of Eve, which I'd think is the opposit of the intended effect. THIS RIGHT HERE!!! I have 10 accounts. I predict burnout within a month. (bye bye 30 plex/month worth of income for ccp)
Lan Wang Knights of the Posing Meat FETID 2611	Posted - 2016.04.08 23:18:03 - [350] - Quote Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote: Lan Wang wrote: and what about the people who arent interested in pve? They will have to bear with the whole of nullsec, lowsec, wormholes, bounty, wardec and dueling mechanics, factional warfare, capital ships, Citadels, POCOs, and all the other few fucktons of PvP content in the game. Poor pity you. Don't like PvE and there's so little else to do in game! who said i dont like pve? i do pve but i know a lot of people who dont do pve so why should shooting npc's give an sp reward to shooting an actual player? what does citadels and pocos have to do with pvp? do any of those things you listed just benefit a pvp player? no they dont they benefit any player whether they pvp or pve. FETID now recruiting pvp pilots & corporations \| lowsec pvp & piracy - Join FETID Loyalist to Angel Cartel & Serpentis
Arcturus Ursidae Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation 13	Posted - 2016.04.08 23:21:54 - [351] - Quote Ok firstly I can see why the skill point reward could be a good thing but it absolutely has to be scaled to the SP of the character, low SP characters get 10,000, high SP as little as 1000. Secondly there needs to be player choice in the activities they do the activities should be interesting if not challenging and forced daily log in grinds are not a good idea. I played destiny for quite some time and that game literally became a chore, one day I realised wtf why I am doing this mission again. I donGÇÖt even want to, I want to do multiplayer or just mess about. Hint I do not play destiny any more. I think something like this can still work though it just needs more thought and polish. Choice - Give players at least three options of what to do at least. Let them pick one. More variety GÇô Make the options change daily. Less pressure GÇô scrap the 22 hour thing. You can complete three dailies a week, you can complete as many as you want on a day from the options available but then thatGÇÖs it. If you donGÇÖt like the options you can wait till tomorrow they will have changed. Challenge GÇô kill an NPC is not good enough. Travel to Lowsec and kill a cruiser class or up NPC. Travel three jumps and mine some ore while killing a pirate NPC. Complete any lvl 3 or higher agent mission within 20minutes. Even these arenGÇÖt really good enough examples just stuff that works with current content, plus there needs to be a lot more and the pool to choose form probably needs to be tailored to the current sec status or region you are in. Ideally some of these would be public challenges that put players in the same space cooperatively. Engaging - An interface, make it something like an agent interface that can be accessed from anywhere, track historical gains, offer unique one time prizes for special event opportunities. My worry is that if this is going to SISI then it probably going to tranquillity especially as this does not seem high profile at the moment, some work here could make something much more engaging than the current proposal.
Resi Richthofen EVE University Ivy League 0	Posted - 2016.04.08 23:24:51 - [352] - Quote plasticsurgerycandidate2 wrote: Sorry man, but this is a terrible idea. It's a terrible idea that leads to a slippery slope. - SP should be earned through training (either by you or someone else you buy the sp off of) I am a new player, been here a couple weeks. The current skill mechanic is by far my least favorite part of the game. My best play at this point is to subscribe, go play other games for a month, then come back and start playing this one when I can actually do something that has a chance at getting me some isk. People who have been playing for a long time can undercut me if I want to build stuff, blow me up if I want to hunt relics etc. And that's fine. I think that is the way it ought to be. They have been playing longer. When I have been playing longer I should be able to 'win' against the new guy. The problem is that the way to 'get better', so I can use the tech 2 stuff, or more efficiently reprocess ore is to wait. If I at least got some credit for doing stuff, I would have an incentive to play. If I knew that if I didn't play I would not get better, I would have an incentive to play. If there were no skill system at all and I could do what I want when I want I would have incentive to start earning isk NOW. But if I wait a few months, I will be able to earn isk much faster, and the few million a day I can bring in now will seem meaningless. As a brand new player, this kind of sucks. If I were at least getting skills by doing stuff I would feel motivated to play. But right now I feel motivated to play in a month or two. And if I decide I don't like the career path I chose, at that point I at least will have a good inflow of isk so I can consider buying skill injectors. But right now, at the rate I am making isk, if I do nothing but save for a skill injector I will be able to get one in like a month. I would much rather play to progress in the game. Not wait to progress.
Sienna Vanjarc Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde 11	Posted - 2016.04.08 23:26:49 - [353] - Quote Please no. Don't give out SP for ingame activity. And killing a single thing is a quite ****** metric for "activity", activity in this game can be everything from just jumping through gates (hauler) to just chatting (Corporation Management).
Soleil Fournier Ultimatum. The Bastion 96	Posted - 2016.04.08 23:28:41 - [354] - Quote You're telling players what to do in the sandbox. Even if you leave it more open ended with options. Even if you limt it to x per day/week/month. You're still telling them what to do. And it introduces the grind factor. Maybe I log in but don't feel like going out and ratting. Or starting an industry job not because the item is useful or profitable, but just because I lose out if I dont. The more I think about this the more I hate it.
Astrid Farnsworth Broke and Famous 4	Posted - 2016.04.08 23:30:26 - [355] - Quote Do they have plan something to -ádecrease TiDi? might be this will encorage fight or more intertain fights.
Avon Salinder Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire 11	Posted - 2016.04.08 23:36:17 - [356] - Quote Rewarding active players with SP is a good thing (something I've been anticipating for a while now). While eve's offline training is unique and well-liked, it doesn't promote actually playing the game. I suggest keeping the reward on smaller things, and avoid promoting the grindier side of pve. Killing the first NPC isn't much of a challenge though, unless the reward is adjusted by the difficulty of the NPC. A rookie frigate worth 2000isk in 0.8 space probably shouldn't give 10000 SP. As others have said, applying this to other tasks that get a player out in space would be a welcome future addition, including but not limited to: Destroying a player's ship. Destroying a player's pod. Completing a hacking minigame. Finishing off an asteroid with mining. The more tasks you add, the more you'll probably want to lower the reward SP for an individual achievement too. I don't see why this should be restricted by a player's SP level either - you want to get bittervets out in space as much as newbies, after all.
Tosawa Komarui No Vacancies No Vacancies. 9	Posted - 2016.04.08 23:40:15 - [357] - Quote more goals is not a bad thing, this dosent affect anyone that chooses not to do this. there is a serious overreaction to this feature.
Gospadin Bastard Children of Poinen Grumpy Space Bastards 256	Posted - 2016.04.08 23:42:09 - [358] - Quote Evelgrivion wrote: Once upon a time, Eve Online prided itself for being different from other MMORPGs, and boldly proclaimed that you could progress as fast as everyone else as your time permitted, whether or not you could log in every single day. That was a powerful vision, and a good one for every day and weekend players alike. Why are we moving away from that vision now? Why is EVE becoming a game that you must log into every day lest you miss out on some quantity of skill points - the one commodity in this game that has ever mattered? This hasn't been true for a long time. People who can afford +5s have always had a training advantage. The difference between a newbie and a vet with +5s is about identical to 10K/day worth of SP.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 27223	Posted - 2016.04.08 23:44:41 - [359] - Quote Avon Salinder wrote: Rewarding active players with SP is a good thing It was tried back when EVE was in beta. Predictably, it was horrible and was removed pretty much instantly due to the awful gameplay dynamics it created and how much it hurt the very fabric of the core design conceit of the game. Active players are already rewarded. Rewarding them with the thing they already have in abundance is idiotic. Tosawa Komarui wrote: this dosent affect anyone that chooses not to do this. Yes it does. It removes choice; it penalises non-conformance; and it devalues the time they spend in the game doing what they want.
Ravcharas Infinite Point Violence of Action. 451	Posted - 2016.04.08 23:50:44 - [360] - Quote Resi Richthofen wrote: plasticsurgerycandidate2 wrote: Sorry man, but this is a terrible idea. It's a terrible idea that leads to a slippery slope. - SP should be earned through training (either by you or someone else you buy the sp off of) I am a new player, been here a couple weeks. The current skill mechanic is by far my least favorite part of the game. My best play at this point is to subscribe, go play other games for a month, then come back and start playing this one when I can actually do something that has a chance at getting me some isk. People who have been playing for a long time can undercut me if I want to build stuff, blow me up if I want to hunt relics etc. And that's fine. I think that is the way it ought to be. They have been playing longer. When I have been playing longer I should be able to 'win' against the new guy. The problem is that the way to 'get better', so I can use the tech 2 stuff, or more efficiently reprocess ore is to wait. If I at least got some credit for doing stuff, I would have an incentive to play. If I knew that if I didn't play I would not get better, I would have an incentive to play. If there were no skill system at all and I could do what I want when I want I would have incentive to start earning isk NOW. But if I wait a few months, I will be able to earn isk much faster, and the few million a day I can bring in now will seem meaningless. As a brand new player, this kind of sucks. If I were at least getting skills by doing stuff I would feel motivated to play. But right now I feel motivated to play in a month or two. And if I decide I don't like the career path I chose, at that point I at least will have a good inflow of isk so I can consider buying skill injectors. But right now, at the rate I am making isk, if I do nothing but save for a skill injector I will be able to get one in like a month. I would much rather play to progress in the game. Not wait to progress. Yeah I hear you. And I agree and sympathize. However, I think the proposed change is a harmful workaround for a flawed system. Like Malcanis pointed out, the skills themselves are due for a tiericide. And interim solutions have a curious way of becoming permanent fixtures.
Mizhir TURN LEFT 74721	Posted - 2016.04.08 23:54:10 - [361] - Quote No No No. Please No. Daily activities / quests is one of the things I hate most in games and it is something gamedesigners should move away from rather than doing it just because other are doing it. I am sure there are many players like me who has a schedule that varies alot so some days I got a fair amount of hours to spend on gaming and other days I don't have time at all. Don't make me have to log in daily as it will just turn the game into a chore instead of something I enjoy engaging in. If you absolutely want to implement something to reward the players for actively playing you should make it weekly instead. So players who have their playtime in clusters can do them all for a week and then not worry about it the days they don't have the time. To me, daily activities seem like a cheap attempt from devs to get the players to log in. But in the end it isn't fun or provide any meaningful to the gameplay nor the health of the game. One Man Crew - Collective Solo PVP - Video is out!
Masao Kurata Many Much Mechanics 452	Posted - 2016.04.08 23:54:50 - [362] - Quote Have you actually given up on EVE being a sandbox? If so please just tell us and we can all find better things to do with our lives.
Mia Markaya Unlimited Blade Works. 26	Posted - 2016.04.08 23:55:32 - [363] - Quote What the hell CCP. For the love of god don't add dailies to Eve Online.
Pandora Carrollon Kingsman Tailors 145	Posted - 2016.04.08 23:56:52 - [364] - Quote Looks like an incentive to get more daily log ins. I'd do it as it would be the only way my alts would get SP's ATM. My main would be just for the kicks of it as I routinely go out blasting pirates. The Guristas hate me. So, I don't really care one way or the other, it's low effect for the game, but I will take the SP as often as I can. Be Positive GÇó Change yourself first, New Eden will come later GÇó EVE is Awesome GÇó CCP isn't the enemy GÇó Players are people too GÇó Where're the clothing blueprints GÇó Yeah, I'm still learning this game -- Pandora's Rules to EVE by
Meta Knite Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde 11	Posted - 2016.04.08 23:59:41 - [365] - Quote This is so terrible. SO TERRIBLE... this is one of the WORST ideas EVER... CCP dont be WOW.... F***
Osaka Hibachi Bearded Grizzlies 20	Posted - 2016.04.09 00:06:03 - [366] - Quote Bribery feels cheap and thoughtless. If you're dead set on implementing it, at least turn it into a booster or an implant or something so that you have to actually sacrifice something in any small way (implant slot, isk from purchasing booster) because without sacrifice, you're burning the spirit of the game. 10k SP is such a minimal amount that it may be easy to just hash out an idea such as this one, but come on. BRING BACK LEARNING SKILLS INSTEAD
TheLameKing The Dark Space Initiative Scary Wormhole People 1	Posted - 2016.04.09 00:09:00 - [367] - Quote Oh god please no. The cool thing about EVE is the fact i dont have to grind for levels (Read SP). This change may not remove the SP/hour you get for training, but its a step away from that. Really bad idea, it takes away from the uniqueness of this game
Soleil Fournier Ultimatum. The Bastion 104	Posted - 2016.04.09 00:09:16 - [368] - Quote There's a thousand different directions they could go to give players more incentive to login without lowering themselves to dailys/weeklys. Like adding purpose. What's the purpose of highsec? I don't mean what activities people do in highsec. I mean why are they doing those activities. Yes isk. But beyond that...why are you amassing isk and ships. What objectives are you completing? Pocos are nice. Citadels will be too. But beyond that. Add citizenship for the empires. You have to do x activites to apply for citizenship. Why don't they add goals for the empires as a whole? If Gallente reach X points (points being generated from missions, industry, research, mining, exploration) then new sites will spawn in Gallente space that only citizens can run, with cool new expensive tech and resources for a limited time. So get out there and reach the goal. And then once the time expires for those sites go reach the next goal. That's a highsec example, but the other areas of space need purpose too. Give players a clear purpose, you'll see players login. So many different ways to encourage logging in and doing things that actually fit eve.
Meta Knite Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde 11	Posted - 2016.04.09 00:13:25 - [369] - Quote This is literally a cop out by CCP to do this to bring in new players, instead of real content, its a joke. this is very weak on the part of CCP...
Castius Severasse Bearded Grizzlies 0	Posted - 2016.04.09 00:15:48 - [370] - Quote What the hell CCP?? You gonna copy WoW and hand out dailys now? This is honestly the best you could come up with? No. Just no.
Resi Richthofen EVE University Ivy League 3	Posted - 2016.04.09 00:19:26 - [371] - Quote Ravcharas wrote: Yeah I hear you. And I agree and sympathize. However, I think the proposed change is a harmful workaround for a flawed system. Like Malcanis pointed out, the skills themselves are due for a tiericide. And interim solutions have a curious way of becoming permanent fixtures. What is tiericide? I have not heard that term before. I think a good way to potentially fix this would be to say, give new players enough SP to get good at 1 specific job of some sort. So relic hunting, mining or production etc.. And make it so those specific skill points are reserved and can't be extracted or whatever to prevent other problems. That way I would at least be fairly competitive at one thing that I chose and I could do that while I waited for other skills to train. I am also not a big fan of the daily system, but I am a bigger fan of it than the current system. And it seems that a lot of the issues revolve around it being worth so much to simply farm SP. What if SP from dailys was non-extractable? It seems like that would remove the incentive to have like 10 different accounts all farming SP but still give someone like me a way to do some stuff to progress faster in the game.
Petrified Old and Petrified Syndication TOG - The Older Gamers Alliance 366	Posted - 2016.04.09 00:19:58 - [372] - Quote Its as if DUST features are making their way to EVE proper. On the one hand, its a cool idea. On the other hand, it further degrades EVE's skill advancement with 330,000 SP per month (every 22 hours works out to 33 attempts over a 30 day period) or nearly 1 skill extraction per month. I would suggest that you not implement something that promotes SP freebies. Just give them a daily ISK bonus if you feel the need to give any bonus at all. How would giving a daily bonus of 5 Million ISK for the first NPC kill be any worse than 10,000 SP? But I would also ask you this: How does the story of EVE online support this? What limits it to NPC kills only? Cloaking is the closest thing to a "Pause Game" button one can get while in space.
Titus Tallang EVE University Ivy League 153	Posted - 2016.04.09 00:23:36 - [373] - Quote Terrible, terrible idea. Turning logging in into a daily chore that you "have to" do is a great way to burn players out and lose them, not make them stick with you long term. Daily quests are a terrible design paradigm, they add no additional or exciting gameplay but instead merely prolong the experience arbitrarily. They also punish players that cannot commit to a daily login schedule, especially when the reward is something as incredibly valuable as skill points - as you'll recall, that's a resource the acquisition rate of which is capped upwards. Please. Don't do this, and it pains me to have to say that in so many threads recently. Director of Education - EVE University - http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/
Den Crysis UNDEADS Soviet-Union 0	Posted - 2016.04.09 00:26:25 - [374] - Quote Do you want to turn EVE at yours Korean RPG with blackjack and hookers? Seriously, it's a most stupid idea I've heard from you. Do not break the game. Personally, I do go out of the game if it happens. Like many other people.
P3ps1 Max Hedion University Amarr Empire 31	Posted - 2016.04.09 00:27:05 - [375] - Quote Pretty interesting stuff. I'm sure veterans won't be happy but new or newish' players would like this. Hopefully how it's introduced will be a little smoother than opportunities in general. Maybe have the toggle in the top left where opportunities is changed to daily? Also Instead of just killing your first NPC, maybe tie in other content like completing your first mission, completing a combat site, etc?
Petrified Old and Petrified Syndication TOG - The Older Gamers Alliance 367	Posted - 2016.04.09 00:41:23 - [376] - Quote Petrified wrote: On the one hand, its a cool idea. I take it back. Not even a cool idea. Sorry. Is EVE online becoming more like Guild Wars 2/FireFall with this? Slowly. Please, don't this further undermines the Skill Point system that makes EVE Online so unique. You want to be consistent with the EVE universe and give people a bonus and promote more PvP? When you get Podded you leave a corpse and lose 10,000 SP. Whoever scoops the corpse can then use a lab to extract the 10,000 SP and add it to themselves. To prevent abuse from people who stock-piled corpses, you tag all existing corpses as extracted (maybe: dismembered) while it still retains the character name. Once you introduce this, corpses can be 'packaged' for sale, losing any identity, but becoming a market commodity. All corpses that get the SP extraction cannot be packaged and are tagged as extracted. This, in my opinion, makes much better sense than creating SP out of thin air for killing an NPC. Cloaking is the closest thing to a "Pause Game" button one can get while in space.
Cyrilius Max 0	Posted - 2016.04.09 00:44:42 - [377] - Quote I don't like it.
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 2726	Posted - 2016.04.09 00:48:36 - [378] - Quote Petrified wrote: Petrified wrote: On the one hand, its a cool idea. I take it back. Not even a cool idea. Sorry. Is EVE online becoming more like Guild Wars 2/FireFall with this? Slowly. Please, don't this further undermines the Skill Point system that makes EVE Online so unique. You want to be consistent with the EVE universe and give people a bonus and promote more PvP? When you get Podded you leave a corpse and lose 10,000 SP. Whoever scoops the corpse can then use a lab to extract the 10,000 SP and add it to themselves. To prevent abuse from people who stock-piled corpses, you tag all existing corpses as extracted (maybe: dismembered) while it still retains the character name. Once you introduce this, corpses can be 'packaged' for sale, losing any identity, but becoming a market commodity. All corpses that get the SP extraction cannot be packaged and are tagged as extracted. This, in my opinion, makes much better sense than creating SP out of thin air for killing an NPC. Sure, making newbie a farmable stock for low cost SP by camping the gate out of newbie system is a great idea. People are bitching and moaning right now about how they will feel forced to log in to get their 10k SP and you think people won't farm the lowest possible fruit off the tree for instead SP injection? Hold on while I go POD alts on a second account all day long for corps biomassing them over and over again because guess what, there is currently no rules that prevent biomassing character doing this as you are not doing it to dodge criminal action's penalty like biomassing alts for ganking would.
beakerax Pator Tech School 231	Posted - 2016.04.09 00:49:01 - [379] - Quote careful now / down with this sort of thing
Cajun Waffles Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde 3	Posted - 2016.04.09 00:55:16 - [380] - Quote Sweeeetness. Sounds like I'm going to get my grind on soon. I'm surprised at the anal comments by vets... I like the idea.
Neadayan Drakhon Heuristic Industrial And Development AddictClan 82	Posted - 2016.04.09 00:55:27 - [381] - Quote No! This had better be a joke. Absolutely terrible idea, keep dailies away from EVE.
Nevyn Auscent Broke Sauce 3141	Posted - 2016.04.09 00:56:55 - [382] - Quote CCP, Please reconsider the idea of SP rewards. EVE has been unique in that you don't have to grind for SP, Introducing SP rewards like this changes it towards being a standard grind for xp clone.
Daichi Yamato Xero Security and Technologies 3177	Posted - 2016.04.09 00:57:04 - [383] - Quote I didnt like the idea of incentives like this with isk, but id grudgingly accept it. At least with isk the rewards would be so small it wouldnt be worth your time making empty alts on every account to maximise rewards. This sucks. Please reconsider. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided" Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
beakerax Pator Tech School 232	Posted - 2016.04.09 00:58:07 - [384] - Quote Cajun Waffles wrote: surprised at the anal comments by vets Cajun Waffles wrote: get my grind on yep
Petrified Old and Petrified Syndication TOG - The Older Gamers Alliance 367	Posted - 2016.04.09 00:58:24 - [385] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: Sure, making newbie a farmable stock for low cost SP by camping the gate out of newbie system is a great idea. People are bitching and moaning right now about how they will feel forced to log in to get their 10k SP and you think people won't farm the lowest possible fruit off the tree for instead SP injection? Hold on while I go POD alts on a second account all day long for corps biomassing them over and over again because guess what, there is currently no rules that prevent biomassing character doing this as you are not doing it to dodge criminal action's penalty like biomassing alts for ganking would. 1 - You would have a SP minimum before the corpse could be "farmed" - 1 Million SP should be a decent floor to cover any 'newness'. 2 - The player being podded loses SP, so there is nothing generated out of free air - ie: you biomass yourself and lose SP to gain the same amount? Cloaking is the closest thing to a "Pause Game" button one can get while in space.
Nicen Jehr The Scope Gallente Federation 420	Posted - 2016.04.09 00:58:50 - [386] - Quote cool thx i will log in more Little Things to improve GëíGïüGëí-á\| My Little Things posts
Cajun Waffles Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde 3	Posted - 2016.04.09 01:00:20 - [387] - Quote beakerax wrote: Cajun Waffles wrote: surprised at the anal comments by vets Cajun Waffles wrote: get my grind on yep Nobody is forcing a player to grind or log in for dailies...It's optional. Just think of it as veterans' personal on/off feature without it being in your settings menu :)
Bobb Bobbington Bros Before Holes The Devils' Rejects 225	Posted - 2016.04.09 01:02:31 - [388] - Quote CCP Rise wrote: That's it for now. If this goes well we hope to expand in several ways, but more on that later! I just reread the first post and saw this little snippet. This is exactly what I'm talking about! First comes a single small change to test the waters, then a few more spaced out to get people more used to the idea, and then BAM! we're going to be using the equivalent of gold ammo, pvp arenas, and item sets in a year or two. Do not kid yourselves people, CCP will not stop here. They will continue expanding into more themepark like gameplay, slowly when we give too much pushback, but reliably. This is a signature. It has a 25m signature. No it's not a cosmic signature. Probably. Btw my corp's recruiting.
Petrified Old and Petrified Syndication TOG - The Older Gamers Alliance 367	Posted - 2016.04.09 01:03:04 - [389] - Quote beakerax wrote: careful now / down with this sort of thing e: if you must make some kind of "login incentive", which you shouldn't, because it's dumb, give a +x to attributes on days when the character logs in. Leave the poor NPCs out of it. This too would be a better way to handle incentivizing people to log into EVE. But you would want to tie the incentive to the duration of logon itself. Cloaking is the closest thing to a "Pause Game" button one can get while in space.
Elinara Yamamoto Latex Entosis 8	Posted - 2016.04.09 01:04:50 - [390] - Quote It's the work that goes into what you have in this game that makes flying in space meaningful. Free, useful commodities for logging in and doing effectively nothing will not make you happier with what you have built or what you have destroyed in Eve. The only thing this change will accomplish in the long term is burning people out on a daily grind lest they fall behind for imaginary spaceship points. This change will have the opposite effect for game attachment as CCP intends. Totally agree with these 2 paragraphs which I have stolen from another player cause I could not find the quote thing. I have thought long and hard about it, but I played WoW for about 10 years and I can now no longer play any game that is like it, cause of the psychological tricks like dailies. I hate them with a passion. EQ2 looks pretty etc, but things like Daily CHORES are not good for gaming, I can barely accept skill injectors (at least not created out of thin air) but I cannot accept Dailies in my EVE. If this comes to pass I might have to quit EvE and maybe even quit gaming as Eve is now the only game I enjoy and I do enjoy it a lot. If this happens I may try out Star Citizen which I never thought I d have to do...
beakerax Pator Tech School 233	Posted - 2016.04.09 01:06:58 - [391] - Quote Petrified wrote: This too would be a better way to handle incentivizing people to log into EVE. But you would want to tie the incentive to the duration of logon itself. I dunno. People would just log in and afk in station. Better to have them log straight back out again if they don't intend to undock, imo. or give us sp for posting on the forums
Gerhard Stringfellow Fisherbody Trading Company 82	Posted - 2016.04.09 01:09:14 - [392] - Quote I don't like this. It seems like something that would be in some crappy generic korean MMO, not EvE. People are joining droves because of the current conflict; dailies are just going to make the game feel cheap. Skill injectors were bad enough and it's troubling to see a change like this so soon after skill injectors. Another pubbie elite PvE pay to win mining carebear
Lengurathmir Sead Jovian Labs Jovian Enterprises 0	Posted - 2016.04.09 01:10:59 - [393] - Quote Please reconsider. I hate daily chores in any game because they make me feel bad when I miss them. This will lead to eve being a lot less fun for me.
Cajun Waffles Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde 3	Posted - 2016.04.09 01:13:19 - [394] - Quote Elinara Yamamoto wrote: It's the work that goes into what you have in this game that makes flying in space meaningful. Free, useful commodities for logging in and doing effectively nothing will not make you happier with what you have built or what you have destroyed in Eve. The only thing this change will accomplish in the long term is burning people out on a daily grind lest they fall behind for imaginary spaceship points. This change will have the opposite effect for game attachment as CCP intends. Totally agree with these 2 paragraphs which I have stolen from another player cause I could not find the quote thing. I have thought long and hard about it, but I played WoW for about 10 years and I can now no longer play any game that is like it, cause of the psychological tricks like dailies. I hate them with a passion. EQ2 looks pretty etc, but things like Daily CHORES are not good for gaming, I can barely accept skill injectors (at least not created out of thin air) but I cannot accept Dailies in my EVE. If this comes to pass I might have to quit EvE and maybe even quit gaming as Eve is now the only game I enjoy and I do enjoy it a lot. If this happens I may try out Star Citizen which I never thought I d have to do... So for some reason having more Skill Points would make flying in space less meaningful to you lol? I find that interesting.... Could you explain please? When content is what we create by building and blowing things up in space but to you feel skill points is somehow a direct correlation to content and meaningfulness... May I ask what content that is?
Randolph Sykes Method Synergy 23	Posted - 2016.04.09 01:14:09 - [395] - Quote Good but crude. I hope you will put more thought into it rather than just giving out a tiny bit of SP for killing a rat once a day. It's a very lazy implementation of a decent idea, hence why players are so hostile.
Karbowiak 4M-CORP The-Culture 209	Posted - 2016.04.09 01:14:11 - [396] - Quote Instead of this, just give us the chat endpoint that you have in CREST. Altho that would probably lead to an even bigger loss in terms of players actually logging in
Johan Civire Caldari Provisions Caldari State 1087	Posted - 2016.04.09 01:15:44 - [397] - Quote Hehe this is going great ccp making eve in casual farming mmorpg. I know what you`re doing ccp. And thats nothing good. Making the game more arcade then making it simple. Then nerf the hardcore stuff. Add game shop. Selling (boosting packs and currency). Then add daily`s? whats next quest system you need to do to get some (epic item load?) Good job. A new world of warcraft its more eve of spacecraft....
PotatoOverdose Royal Black Watch Highlanders White Legion. 2751	Posted - 2016.04.09 01:16:15 - [398] - Quote One of the reasons I like eve is that there's no grind to level 80 bullshit. I don't need to grind for xp in order to progress. Logging on 9 characters once a day to shoot a rat somewhere is sub-moronic. Next thing you know, we're gonna be handing out sp for turning in 10 beaver pelts.
Petrified Old and Petrified Syndication TOG - The Older Gamers Alliance 368	Posted - 2016.04.09 01:21:43 - [399] - Quote beakerax wrote: Petrified wrote: This too would be a better way to handle incentivizing people to log into EVE. But you would want to tie the incentive to the duration of logon itself. I dunno. People would just log in and afk in station. Better to have them log straight back out again if they don't intend to undock, imo. or give us sp for posting on the forums True... Incentivizes more use of AFK cloakers as well - providing their skill queue is training. But then, at least the numbers in game are kept up. I still like the researching of corpses for SP as a way to promote in game activity and PvP. Keeps up with the one hand taking what the other gives. Cloaking is the closest thing to a "Pause Game" button one can get while in space.
Petrified Old and Petrified Syndication TOG - The Older Gamers Alliance 368	Posted - 2016.04.09 01:23:50 - [400] - Quote Johan Civire wrote: Hehe this is going great ccp making eve in casual farming mmorpg. I know what you`re doing ccp. And thats nothing good. Making the game more arcade then making it simple. Then nerf the hardcore stuff. Add game shop. Selling (boosting packs and currency). Then add daily`s? whats next quest system you need to do to get some (epic item load?) Good job. A new world of warcraft its more eve of spacecraft.... Also if you`re on this track of gaming. Why not add (epic crates) and you need to spend keys to open it And to get keys you need to use real money. CCP really every mmorpg facebook game have this add this to people love to gamble and so. Also add some Increase real time SP booster packs. Like +20 for 2 days or so. People love to spend money on those things. Yeah lets kill eve right now. It actually has made me regret having paid for my 12 month sub already. Cloaking is the closest thing to a "Pause Game" button one can get while in space.
Randolph Sykes Method Synergy 24	Posted - 2016.04.09 01:24:04 - [401] - Quote PotatoOverdose wrote: Logging on 9 characters once a day to shoot a rat somewhere is sub-moronic. Well, don't do it then. Instead, spend this time doing something that is actually lucrative and buy injectors. Otherwise you are doing it wrong opportunity cost wise.
beakerax Pator Tech School 235	Posted - 2016.04.09 01:25:10 - [402] - Quote Michael Oskold wrote: eve already has grind to skill with injectors turns out the slope was slippery after all
Drummond Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State 12	Posted - 2016.04.09 01:25:29 - [403] - Quote Personally, I really like the idea. But a couple suggestions / ideas to consider. 1) The NPCs to be killed to qualify for SP have to be in Low Sec. - Encourages more Low Sec Activity 2) Daily Opportunities are for New Players not Vets. - The SP gained from completing a Daily Opportunity stop accruing on Characters with more than X Million SP. (Say 10,000,000). Okay, so #2 doesn't accomplish what CCP is trying to do here, encourage people logging in and being active with their accounts. But it should make New Players feel like the SP gap is less surmountable.
Diametrix Black Rise Goods and Services 41	Posted - 2016.04.09 01:26:08 - [404] - Quote It appears that CCP is continuing to expand the concept of making everything (goods, services, territory, isk, power - and even time itself {aka SP}) more directly within control of, and competed over by, players. Very brave move for a vernable, successful MMO that needs to truly differentiate itself in a diverse and aggressive market while growing an active player base. These micro-transaction machines don't scale themselves - you gotta BUILD IT! But CCP learned a lot about all of this with DUST. As sad as many are to see DUST fade into... well dust, that was a laboratory of progress and learning about everything from micro-transactions to how to balance a more complex skillpoint stream and keep players playing. And paying. Good Job CCP - Forge ahead into this new territory and do new stuff! I needed a way to get these alts up to 5mil faster. And we're all PI farming for the new markets anyway. Good times, noodle salad.
Yuna Yamamoto House of the Dead Monkey SpaceMonkey's Alliance 2	Posted - 2016.04.09 01:26:47 - [405] - Quote Please do not do this. It will be one of the worst things to happen to Eve, it is taking away a HUGE CHUNK OF SANDBOX. What about my Alt that is sitting in a stationless NS backwater system as a scout, I have to move him to HS or something in a combat ship to kill an NPC rat now? What about an Alt I have that is staying in a station so I can undock and evacuate a bling ship when I have a useful WH connection? Eve is a game with long planning and the FREEDOM to do what you want, not be forced to do something that might be very very different from your personal grand plan. PLEASE RECONSIDER THIS!
Krevnos Back Door Burglars The Otherworld 115	Posted - 2016.04.09 01:28:24 - [406] - Quote Dailies were a vile idea in every other MMO, which leaves me curious as to how CCP devs came to the conclusion that it's a good idea for Eve? Aside from that, it alienates professions other than ratting and mining. Nice job there! For the record I am a ratter and still hate the cheap feel of this 'feature'. I'm disappointed in your team, Rise. How about instead of adding tawdry features to the defunct system, redesign the bloody awful PvE experience in Eve to actually encourage players to engage without the thought of grind?
Khan Wrenth Ore Oppression Prevention and Salvation 539	Posted - 2016.04.09 01:30:30 - [407] - Quote You know, I check the forums several times a day. I'm a nerd like that. When I go to work, come back, and in that few hours' time, a new DEV thread was created that already has 20 pages of replies? I can tell right off the bat that something seriously bad just happened. The people on the forums don't take that much time and energy out of their day to create 20 pages worth of replies to something they like. So I check this thread and confirm it, overwhelmingly negative responses. And I'm with them. No matter what, dailies are probably a really bad idea. Despite what I am about to say, I want to be clear that I do not support this feature. However I think making one simple change would make it a lot more palatable to the playerbase. Instead of rewarding SP, reward Concord LP. Concord LP reward makes sense in this regard, doesn't it? That one person posted a screenshot that indicated Concord was the entity behind the initiative, so it makes sense to me to have them dish out their LP. Plus, LP is an isk sink. You might have to tone down the LP awarded as I think 10k is a bit much (maybe just 1k?), but if you are already going to go in this direction, making this an isk-sink activity is probably the best way to go. Plus, then the reward has much more limited appeal, meaning people feel less obligated to do it for grind. Edit: forgot the most important part.... Rena Monachica wrote: Quote: we make sure there is one single mechanism that brings new skillpoints in to the system GÇô training. thats a quote from your skill injector dev blog, only a few weeks ago Let's discuss overhauling the way we get intel in EvE.
Telizane 404 Ship Not Found Violent Declaration 1	Posted - 2016.04.09 01:32:12 - [408] - Quote CCP, dailies are the bane of every other MMO's model, its what everyone is doing. One of the shining parts to EVE that (In my opinion) has kept it alive for so long is how different it was from the main stream MMO's... Again this is my opinion. One of the only reasons that player activity has moved up recently is prob more to do with the residents of EVE banding against goons and less due to skill injectors. I would ask that the team go back to some of EVE's original principals and stop following suite. :(
Flynn Starfire House of the Dead Monkey SpaceMonkey's Alliance 4	Posted - 2016.04.09 01:33:01 - [409] - Quote I also rat sometimes and I hate this idea. SO i have to now log on 3 Chars on EACH of my accounts to do this? (I will get FOMO if I do not do this if implemented) This is making me feel very bad about eve, its like WoW or any other MMO that forces you to do stuff, where is my sandbox now?
SeVenNight Deng Tai-Chi Northern Coalition. 0	Posted - 2016.04.09 01:36:27 - [410] - Quote I login the forum and told you frankly rather than shitpost in Reddit, listen: This is the ******* stupid idea after your 'fleet warp' change proposal. Daily Mission? come on, we are not playing Korean MMO.
Ravcharas Infinite Point Violence of Action. 454	Posted - 2016.04.09 01:40:07 - [411] - Quote Resi Richthofen wrote: What is tiericide? I have not heard that term before. In practice it's an ongoing effort on CCP's part to go through the ships and modules to increase viable options for players. A game being a series of interesting choices and all. It used to be, for example, that for each category of module, you really only ever fit one or two; the t2 variant or the meta 4 variant. The others were just plain worse. They're working through that as we speak, usually going over a couple of categories with each release. So tiericide refers to that kind of major overhaul. If you want to read more about it this is a good start: https://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/rebalancing-eve-one-module-at-a-time/
Avalloc Solaros Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 0	Posted - 2016.04.09 01:40:55 - [412] - Quote NO. Well lets not be so anti - maybe just sell skillpoints created out of thin air? 30USD for 500k SP seems a good idea imo. And 500 SP for every hour you are logged in, in addition to the SP you get when not logged in. TO BE $%^@in& SERIOUS... in my personal opinion it does not seem WISE for CCP to kill their own game with a psychological trick that is trying to make people log in for OTHER REASONS than I want to play some EVE. This is why I quit EVERY other game that has this implemented. NO
Annemariela Antonela Kill'em all. Let Bob sort'em out. 608	Posted - 2016.04.09 01:43:07 - [413] - Quote Khan Wrenth wrote: You know, I check the forums several times a day. I'm a nerd like that. When I go to work, come back, and in that few hours' time, a new DEV thread was created that already has 20 pages of replies? I can tell right off the bat that something seriously bad just happened. The people on the forums don't take that much time and energy out of their day to create 20 pages worth of replies to something they like. So I check this thread and confirm it, overwhelmingly negative responses. And I'm with them. No matter what, dailies are probably a really bad idea. Despite what I am about to say, I want to be clear that I do not support this feature. However I think making one simple change would make it a lot more palatable to the playerbase. Instead of rewarding SP, reward Concord LP. Concord LP reward makes sense in this regard, doesn't it? That one person posted a screenshot that indicated Concord was the entity behind the initiative, so it makes sense to me to have them dish out their LP. Plus, LP is an isk sink. You might have to tone down the LP awarded as I think 10k is a bit much (maybe just 1k?), but if you are already going to go in this direction, making this an isk-sink activity is probably the best way to go. Plus, then the reward has much more limited appeal, meaning people feel less obligated to do it for grind. Edit: forgot the most important part.... Rena Monachica wrote: Quote: we make sure there is one single mechanism that brings new skillpoints in to the system GÇô training. thats a quote from your skill injector dev blog, only a few weeks ago This. And per account, not per character. GÇ£Culture is like a smog. To live within it, you must breathe some of it in and, inevitably, be contaminated.GÇ¥ GÇò Richard K. Morgan, Altered Carbon
Chjna the Goose Flock 12	Posted - 2016.04.09 01:44:50 - [414] - Quote And this would only be the first... In the end we will have to pvp in our miners, start industry jobs on our titan pilots, scan down sites with the market toons, and more. to not feel that we miss out on stuff. New players will be forced to train and do stuff all over the place to not miss out on this, as this will be a huge deal for low sp chars. And gone is the Idea that you should train into something specialized fast and be usefull in a group... first monocles, then pay to win with skill injectors, and now this. remember to give me the teleport my ship to jita button that I can use once per day Remove T2 BPOs
Ludi Burek Fat Dragon Mining Co. Darwinism. 315	Posted - 2016.04.09 01:46:00 - [415] - Quote Terrible idea. I re-subbed recently because I thought some the recent implementations you did were good and you scrapped the awful notion of magic wands killing citadels. But seeing this idea automatically deflated my enthusiasm. It's grindy game play that contributes nothing to the experience and in one swoop devalues SP and a host of activities in eve. How many times do you have to be told people play your game because it is different?
Marion Elara House of the Dead Monkey SpaceMonkey's Alliance 0	Posted - 2016.04.09 01:47:47 - [416] - Quote I want to log in cause I want to play Eve, and if you have a 2 digit number of characters, this will make me cringe having to log on every single one of them or MISS OUT ON FREE SP. This is making my tummy feel uneasy. Slippery slope is getting more slippery.
Elinara Yamamoto Latex Entosis 9	Posted - 2016.04.09 01:53:36 - [417] - Quote Cajun Waffles wrote: So for some reason having more Skill Points would make flying in space less meaningful to you lol? I find that interesting.... Could you explain please? When content is what we create by building and blowing things up in space but you feel skill points is somehow a direct correlation to content and meaningfulness... May I ask what content that is? To create these skillpoints you will have to do forced tasks that do not correlate to what you would normally be doing. Which means you get FOMO if you do not do them (some of us do) and if you do get these extra SPs, you will do less of what you want to do. Like creating content. Like PvP pewpews which many of us agree are plenty fun. Direct correlation between SP and content, and less meaningfulness by these extra SP, did I explain that to your contentment?
Zappity Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde 2813	Posted - 2016.04.09 01:54:39 - [418] - Quote Maruku Asanari wrote: This isn't going to be the only daily added... I have a lot of trouble with this argument. EVE development is littered with examples of features which were supposed to be iterated on after release and were just dropped. Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
Rovinia Exotic Dancers Union SONS of BANE 495	Posted - 2016.04.09 02:00:42 - [419] - Quote Can't you at least make it an NPC kill in Low and 0.0 Space? Because of that "Risk-vs-reward"-thingy...
Bobb Bobbington Bros Before Holes The Devils' Rejects 269	Posted - 2016.04.09 02:01:25 - [420] - Quote Zappity wrote: Maruku Asanari wrote: This isn't going to be the only daily added... I have a lot of trouble with this argument. EVE development is littered with examples of features which were supposed to be iterated on after release and were just dropped. The problem is that it opens the door for similar themepark-style features to be implemented into the game... they specifically said in the OP that they were planning on expanding on all of this. This is a signature. It has a 25m signature. No it's not a cosmic signature. Probably. Btw my corp's recruiting.
Jenn aSide Smokin Aces. 13886	Posted - 2016.04.09 02:02:06 - [421] - Quote People that know me know I generally oppose things like this. I think there are unintended consequences CCP doesn't take into account, and moves like this take EVE further away from it's core principles and move it more towards the "meh" most of the mmo world is. I'm even generally opposed to small incremental changes like this , even if it isn't earth shattering, it's going in the wrong direction. I can't work up a whole bunch of hate for this idea though. The SP gain is super small and at least its' not a direct isk/wealth injection (even though skill points do have more value now). It helps people who actually play the game progress a bit faster skillwise without (IMO) going full on "grind for XP" like normal mmos do. So while I won't be standing on any chairs cheering about this, it could have been worse (it cold have been millions of isk instead of 10k sp) so I can say I'm ok with it.
Neadayan Drakhon Heuristic Industrial And Development AddictClan 123	Posted - 2016.04.09 02:05:23 - [422] - Quote After reading some (but no where near all) of this soon-to-be-threadnaught, I'd like to look at some of the key points that have been brought up against this idea: - Devaluation of SP (some would say further devaluation, after all, skill trading devalued it too). This ties in with other points. - Feeling left out if you don't do your dailies. SO MUCH THIS. This is what sucks about dailies, you feel like you have to do them or you're missing out on important progression or payouts. One poster took it to an extreme with examples of ratting in mining ships, doing industry jobs from titans, etc. I cannot stress this factor enough, with dailies, you have to do them. If you don't, you're missing out on whatever it is the daily gets you. I absolutely HATE the idea of adding dailies to EVE, but I'd still end up doing them because after all, I'd be missing out on (in this case) SP if I didn't. Much as I hated skill trading, that is at least ignorable, as you have to spend isk on it (or buy is with cash then spend the isk), so there's a consideration of is it worth the cost. For dailies? Nope, no such consideration, not really. Sure you can try to justify to yourself not to do it, but in the end if you don't, you're still missing out on that extra SP. - What happened to the only source of SP being training (aside from the occasional gift SP from CCP for severe downtimes or whatnot). This game had the appeal of having a passive real time training system, one that you could not grind like xp to race to "max level." This concept was core to the game, it took a serious blow with skill trading, which at least didn't create extra SP, and in fact created a significant SP sink, both in diminishing returns, and the occasional lossmail with injectors in cargo. However that SP sink doesn't justify adding in daily SP grinds. Not by a longshot. Seriously CCP, don't do this, EVE does not need dailies. It should not have dailies. As others have said, dailies are the bane of many an MMO. Many came to this game in part because it did not have dailies. Just say no to dailies.
FT Diomedes The Graduates 2451	Posted - 2016.04.09 02:06:08 - [423] - Quote Petrified wrote: Johan Civire wrote: Hehe this is going great ccp making eve in casual farming mmorpg. I know what you`re doing ccp. And thats nothing good. Making the game more arcade then making it simple. Then nerf the hardcore stuff. Add game shop. Selling (boosting packs and currency). Then add daily`s? whats next quest system you need to do to get some (epic item load?) Good job. A new world of warcraft its more eve of spacecraft.... Also if you`re on this track of gaming. Why not add (epic crates) and you need to spend keys to open it And to get keys you need to use real money. CCP really every mmorpg facebook game have this add this to people love to gamble and so. Also add some Increase real time SP booster packs. Like +20 for 2 days or so. People love to spend money on those things. Yeah lets kill eve right now. It actually has made me regret having paid for my 12 month sub already. The one good thing about the timing of this announcement is that it is BEFORE I resubscribed all my accounts for the year. I'm not saying I am going to quit, but I was debating whether to resubscribe all of my accounts. I think this may be a good time to trim down to a more manageable number of accounts. The prospect of doing daily quests on 21 characters is enough to make me want to gouge my eyes out. CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.
Cajun Waffles Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde 13	Posted - 2016.04.09 02:06:22 - [424] - Quote Elinara Yamamoto wrote: Cajun Waffles wrote: So for some reason having more Skill Points would make flying in space less meaningful to you lol? I find that interesting.... Could you explain please? When content is what we create by building and blowing things up in space but you feel skill points is somehow a direct correlation to content and meaningfulness... May I ask what content that is? To create these skillpoints you will have to do forced tasks that do not correlate to what you would normally be doing. Which means you get FOMO if you do not do them (some of us do) and if you do get these extra SPs, you will do less of what you want to do. Like creating content. Like PvP pewpews which many of us agree are plenty fun. Direct correlation between SP and content, and less meaningfulness by these extra SP, did I explain that to your contentment? No I'm sorry I still disagree. Basically you are stating you are "forced" which is inaccurate. Doing less of what you want to do? Again killing one NPC or whatever the daily may be is optional. Don't do it. It creates content for this that wish to do it. Just like content people do to purchase skill injectors.
Neadayan Drakhon Heuristic Industrial And Development AddictClan 123	Posted - 2016.04.09 02:14:16 - [425] - Quote Cajun Waffles wrote: Elinara Yamamoto wrote: Cajun Waffles wrote: So for some reason having more Skill Points would make flying in space less meaningful to you lol? I find that interesting.... Could you explain please? When content is what we create by building and blowing things up in space but you feel skill points is somehow a direct correlation to content and meaningfulness... May I ask what content that is? To create these skillpoints you will have to do forced tasks that do not correlate to what you would normally be doing. Which means you get FOMO if you do not do them (some of us do) and if you do get these extra SPs, you will do less of what you want to do. Like creating content. Like PvP pewpews which many of us agree are plenty fun. Direct correlation between SP and content, and less meaningfulness by these extra SP, did I explain that to your contentment? No I'm sorry I still disagree. Basically you are stating you are "forced" which is inaccurate. Doing less of what you want to do? Again killing one NPC or whatever the daily may be is optional. Don't do it. It creates content for this that wish to do it. Just like content people do to purchase skill injectors. While no, technically you're not forced to do anything, there is a very strong sense of missing out on the reward if you don't do it. In that regard, many people will feel forced to do the dailies in order to get their SP. Deny it all you want, but people will feel forced, even though they're not actually being forced.
Shallanna Yassavi Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 120	Posted - 2016.04.09 02:16:09 - [426] - Quote Relevant. It's the Skinner Box monster again in its most obvious and annoying form, but it's not the first time it's reared its head in this game. Even the mission grind is interesting and engaging than this thing. A signature :o
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 27304	Posted - 2016.04.09 02:16:39 - [427] - Quote Cajun Waffles wrote: No I'm sorry I still disagree. Basically you are stating you are "forced" which is inaccurate. Doing less of what you want to do? Again killing one NPC or whatever the daily may be is optional. Don't do it. It creates content for this that wish to do it. Just like content people do to purchase skill injectors. It does not create any content. All it does is penalise some people for not doing engaging in the most sub-par (pre-existing) content the game has on offer. You are forced because you are faced with a choice between being stupid and being bored. One is significantly suboptimal (no, having your GÇ£training dayGÇ¥ be 24 hours long rather than 20 is not a small difference, and that's the best case scenario GÇö for some, it'll be 24 hours compared to 18h); the other requires you to do something you do not want to do. It's the same nonsense as with the training skills GÇö you were not GÇ£forcedGÇ¥ to get those either; it was GÇ£onlyGÇ¥ very very very stupid not to, and the argument that you had an option was as ignorant then as it is now. In the end, being forced to train them was a huge part of why they had to go. An option to make a dumb choice is not an option GÇö it's a pathetic excuse for incompetent design, doubly so when this non-option doesn't improve the actual game in any way. Jenn aSide wrote: So while I won't be standing on any chairs cheering about this, it could have been worse (it cold have been millions of isk instead of 10k sp) so I can say I'm ok with it. If the positive side is that it could have been worse, then it's not something you should ever be ok with.
Sizeof Void Ninja Suicide Squadron 634	Posted - 2016.04.09 02:19:17 - [428] - Quote I saw this in an old South Park episode, "Make Love, Not Warcraft". I remermber Cartman had a similar plan about grinding 2 XP per boar. Perhaps, CCP Rise has now become CCP Cartman? lol :D
Ruby Gnollo 4	Posted - 2016.04.09 02:19:27 - [429] - Quote Kara Burnett wrote: Please no daily quests. Or daily login rewards or whatever daily mechanic you can steal from generic mmos. A beauty of EvE always was that it lacked those silly little tricks trying to force you to log in or do menial tasks you don't care about. Don't throw that away. I really love that unique concept : the game where people not playing it have no disavantage against those who do play it. Hoooo, please CCP, do not reward people flying ships instead of not playing the game as it's always been designed not te be played, including : - Stacking scammers in Jita - Stacking industrial & market alts to manipulate prices - Running afk alts to help gank Evil Newbies Schemes in HS - Playing forever logged off caps alts - Playing as many alts as your billion ISKs worth of PLEXes allows you to handle Please CCP, forget about the whole flying spaceships concept : please let Eve be a place of evil scamming politicians like in real life for those failed there who wouldn't even find a place in a coffee shop otherwise. Please, CCP, shall New Eden never be a game meant to be played, just to be talked about.
Jenn aSide Smokin Aces. 13886	Posted - 2016.04.09 02:33:04 - [430] - Quote Tippia wrote: [quote=Cajun Waffles]No I'm sorry I still disagree. Basically you are stating you are "forced" which is inaccurate. If the positive side is that it could have been worse, then it's not something you should ever be ok with. Yet I am ok with it. No one is more skeptical of these kinds of changes than I am (not even you), no one hates the idea of EVe being like other games or CCP selling out than I do. But as I see it, while it might be not perfectly keeping with what the game is, the amount of gain is so small it's basically inconsequential.
Neadayan Drakhon Heuristic Industrial And Development AddictClan 123	Posted - 2016.04.09 02:37:11 - [431] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: Tippia wrote: [quote=Cajun Waffles]No I'm sorry I still disagree. Basically you are stating you are "forced" which is inaccurate. If the positive side is that it could have been worse, then it's not something you should ever be ok with. Yet I am ok with it. No one is more skeptical of these kinds of changes than I am (not even you), no one hates the idea of EVe being like other games or CCP selling out than I do. But as I see it, while it might be not perfectly keeping with what the game is, the amount of gain is so small it's basically inconsequential. The gain is not small or inconsequential.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 27304	Posted - 2016.04.09 02:40:14 - [432] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: Yet I am ok with it. No one is more skeptical of these kinds of changes than I am (not even you), no one hates the idea of EVe being like other games or CCP selling out than I do. But as I see it, while it might be not perfectly keeping with what the game is, the amount of gain is so small it's basically inconsequential. Again, it turns a 24-hour training day into 20 hours at the top end; into 18 hours at the low end. A potential 30% increase in training speed is not an inconsequential gain. If they want to speed up people's acquisition of skills, then they can do that. That is not a sufficient or sane reason to do it retardedly. But of course, that's not the intent behind this idiocy, and penalising players that much for not making CCP's stats look good is an absolutely horrid and pathetically desperate design no matter what.
Bobb Bobbington Bros Before Holes The Devils' Rejects 269	Posted - 2016.04.09 02:40:39 - [433] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: Tippia wrote: [quote=Cajun Waffles]No I'm sorry I still disagree. Basically you are stating you are "forced" which is inaccurate. If the positive side is that it could have been worse, then it's not something you should ever be ok with. Yet I am ok with it. No one is more skeptical of these kinds of changes than I am (not even you), no one hates the idea of EVe being like other games or CCP selling out than I do. But as I see it, while it might be not perfectly keeping with what the game is, the amount of gain is so small it's basically inconsequential. But that's the thing! It doesn't even matter what the reward is, it conditions players to log in, shoot a rat, and log off again until they burn themselves out. It could be the smallest reward but people will feel compelled to log in and get it and feel like they're missing something when they don't, eventually turning the players away from the game as they become fed up with the cycle. This is a signature. It has a 25m signature. No it's not a cosmic signature. Probably. Btw my corp's recruiting.
Gerhard Stringfellow Fisherbody Trading Company 92	Posted - 2016.04.09 02:41:37 - [434] - Quote Ruby Gnollo wrote: Kara Burnett wrote: Please no daily quests. Or daily login rewards or whatever daily mechanic you can steal from generic mmos. A beauty of EvE always was that it lacked those silly little tricks trying to force you to log in or do menial tasks you don't care about. Don't throw that away. I really love that unique concept : the game where people not playing it have no disavantage against those who do play it. I agree. This is basically introducing grinding to EvE. Another pubbie elite PvE pay to win mining carebear
KQarberroh Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad. 2	Posted - 2016.04.09 02:42:17 - [435] - Quote I dont think that this will get the meaningful gameplay that you want. A better idea would be to tie it to something more substantial than shooting a single npc. You created this Opportunities system to help out new players and get them to explore new things. Maybe you could tie some free SP (100, 150 SP) every time you complete an opportunity challnge for the first time. This way new players get a boost for doing things and they are encouraged to stay out in space doing more things, not just shoot a single npc.
Tristan Agion Viziam Amarr Empire 127	Posted - 2016.04.09 02:43:40 - [436] - Quote Delilah Albertis wrote: With more SP coming through more avenues, injector prices will adjust accordingly. The market price on a brand new item is not very ideal to base a long term metric off of. PLEX is an astounding example of that but that's an entirely different can of worms. PLEX-based SP-farming has a break even price for a skill injector of about 0.53 PLEX. Prices have so far been higher and could fall to about this level due to CCP dumping SP on the market with "dailies". But unless CCP dumps so much extra SP on the market that the entire SP demand can be filled from it, prices will hold at roughly this level ... eventually. If the price falls below the production cost of a SP farm, then SP farming stops, leading to unfulfilled demand (once the stored up SP is depeleted) and prices are forced back up again. So, one injector will cost more than about 0.53 PLEX. For a newbie, one injector delivers 500k SP, that's 1.06 microPLEX per SP. The proposed 10,000 SP for a rat kill are hence worth 10.6 milliPLEX. If you kill a belt rat every 22 hours, then in 30 days you will earn 0.347 PLEX - at a minimum (considering newbie SP and break even injector prices). Assume I sit in Jita, need to jump to a different system, find a belt rat, kill it and jump back to Jita. I probably need 5-10 minutes for that. So maybe six hours total in those 30 days. So the dumbest thinkable PVE activity in EVE - a JIta belt rat run - will net me no less than 0.058 PLEX per hour. At current PLEX prices that's about 60M ISK per hour. Probably it will be substantially more, since all my estimates were conservative. That's one of the best PVE payouts in the game, You would be stupid not to log in for that. And so the daily chore begins...
Sgt Ocker Kenshin. DARKNESS. 898	Posted - 2016.04.09 02:50:19 - [437] - Quote CCP Rise wrote: For now it will be per character, even if they aren't actively training. "how about a reward for either killing an NPC, hacking a Data/Relic thingy or popping a rock?" - Likely one of the first ways we would look to expand in a follow-up release. So in a couple of years I could train a cyno alt into a T3 without doing anything more than killing 1 gate rat frigate per day? Does the character have to kill the npc solo or can I use other characters I own to help? 1 minute or less to kill 1 npc frigate = 10,000 SP 10 minutes to scan down a relic site and pop 1 can = 10,000 SP 1 hour or more to pop 1 rock mining = 10,000 SP I wonder which will be the more utilized way to get 4 hours free SP. I wonder, if giving every player in the game 10,000 free sp per day will eventually balance out what is removed every time a skill injector is used by anyone other than a rookie? On that line, can we save up the 10,000 daily SP and turn it into an injector to use on another character or sell on the market? My opinions are mine. If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Gvaz Erto GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 2	Posted - 2016.04.09 02:54:29 - [438] - Quote I love this idea. I am a new player and this will be super helpful.
Ruby Gnollo 4	Posted - 2016.04.09 02:55:42 - [439] - Quote Ruby Gnollo wrote: Kara Burnett wrote: Please no daily quests. Or daily login rewards or whatever daily mechanic you can steal from generic mmos. A beauty of EvE always was that it lacked those silly little tricks trying to force you to log in or do menial tasks you don't care about. Don't throw that away. I really love that unique concept : the game where people not playing it have no disavantage against those who do play it. Hoooo, please CCP, do not reward people flying ships instead of not playing the game as it's always been designed not te be played, including : - Stacking scammers in Jita - Stacking industrial & market alts to manipulate prices - Running afk alts to help gank Evil Newbies Schemes in HS - Playing forever logged off caps alts - Playing as many alts as your billion ISKs worth of PLEXes allows you to handle for free, at newbies expense Please CCP, forget about the whole flying spaceships concept : please let Eve be a place of evil scamming politicians like in real life for those failed there who wouldn't even find a place in a coffee shop otherwise. Please, CCP, shall New Eden never be a game meant to be played, just to be talked about.
Vimsy Vortis Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation 4145	Posted - 2016.04.09 02:58:30 - [440] - Quote I'm not sure how Logging in to shoot a rat then logging back out because there's still nothing to do is going to create content in any way whatsoever. Shooting NPCs doesn't promote player interaction in any way and player interaction is what creates content.
Caleb Seremshur Gladiators of Rage RAZOR Alliance 756	Posted - 2016.04.09 03:00:33 - [441] - Quote Syrias Bizniz wrote: Nice! That's up to: 3,981,818 SP per year according to my preschool math skills. I like it. A lot. Assuming you are at some point logging in before and after work and then during work. 22h timeframe remember? Veteran and solo/small gang PVP advocate.
Harkin Issier Alcoholocaust. Test Alliance Please Ignore 84	Posted - 2016.04.09 03:00:43 - [442] - Quote CCP I've quit games over this kind of bullshit. When I feel like I'm falling behind when I'm not logging in, and then I'm not able to log in because I have a real job/life/whatever, I'm much more likely to say **** it and leave. This idea is bad and needs to be stopped.
Darirol Bergmann Foundation Bergmann Federation 26	Posted - 2016.04.09 03:04:24 - [443] - Quote the way they are going to implement this is completly against the sandbox. befor i started playing eve i was wondering why there are no pvp rewards/ranks stuff. i couldnt get my head around this because every mmo i played befor eve had such pvp rewards. you kill other people and you char gets stronger in some way. but after playing eve a while i figured out that you cant give a unique reward because it would invalide every other activity. there are so many career path in eve that are not defined by game mechanics. you simply cant give such unique rewards like extra skillpoints to a single activity. even if you would give it as well to mining, industrial jobs, pvp kills, what ever. one example: what about for example freighter pilots? i mean there are serveral corps and alliances that do noting but moving stuff through eve. do you realy wantto force everyone to mine a veldspar or kill a npc or kill their own cyno alt every day? just to clarify, i like the general idea to give players a small extra bonus for being active ingame. i even like the 10k skillpoints per day idea. but you need a better solution to define "ingame activity". find something that is not bound to a certain activity. if i log in and chat an hour with people, lets say as an extrem example answering questions in the newbie help chat. isnt that an ingame activity that improves the experience of a lot of people? but as well as talking with people in my corp/alliance, fueling the corp pos and so on. plz find an "activity" metric that is able to give such a bonus to everyone who is active ingame.
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 2733	Posted - 2016.04.09 03:12:31 - [444] - Quote Vimsy Vortis wrote: I'm not sure how Logging in to shoot a rat then logging back out because there's still nothing to do is going to create content in any way whatsoever. Shooting NPCs doesn't promote player interaction in any way and player interaction is what creates content. The could set it at more rats in a row for example. The real problem isn't there. The real issue is everybody seeing it as mandatory because they would cry themselves to sleep if they ever missed out on the potentital of 10k SP. This mean that if it is designed to help newbie get to train something faster, it's completely broken because they are the one with the most chance to "miss out" on it because they don't know yet how much of a deal those 10k SP/day are. If they really want to to help newbie, then they should really target newbie plain and simple. Making stuff available to everyone in EVE just make sure everyone profit from it except those damn newbies because they might not even know it's there. Make them train flat out faster for a period of time if need be. Putting some SP across some hurdle only mean vets will do it because it's trivial for them to do it anyway while the newbie actually have to make sure they never miss out if they ever want to just break even with it and potentially not get even further behind in the "SP race" they see when they can't fly much of what vets can.
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 2733	Posted - 2016.04.09 03:14:12 - [445] - Quote Caleb Seremshur wrote: Syrias Bizniz wrote: Nice! That's up to: 3,981,818 SP per year according to my preschool math skills. I like it. A lot. Assuming you are at some point logging in before and after work and then during work. 22h timeframe remember? Some people could pull it off but funnily enough, more than likely not newbies who are not yet THAT involved in the game yet.
Soleil Fournier Ultimatum. The Bastion 121	Posted - 2016.04.09 03:25:30 - [446] - Quote Well said, Darirol
Pleasure Hub Node-514 Pleasure Hub Hotline 79	Posted - 2016.04.09 03:28:53 - [447] - Quote Harkin Issier wrote: CCP I've quit games over this kind of bullshit. When I feel like I'm falling behind when I'm not logging in, and then I'm not able to log in because I have a real job/life/whatever, I'm much more likely to say ** it and leave. This idea is bad and needs to be stopped. Having active and passive SP worked in Dust. I'm sure CCP is looking at the engagement numbers from those daily mission systems there. Even on a dying console, Dust was able to retain a die hard userbase that according to Hilmar helped make the game profitable. Having played Dust, the daily system really helped some days to encourage a log in. 'One night hauler'** The tell all story of a pleasure bot in Jita 4-4
Shalmon Aliatus Bluestar Enterprises The Craftsmen 17	Posted - 2016.04.09 03:29:59 - [448] - Quote While I like the idea of getting a few extra skillpoints, I really don't like this idea. Getting these extra skillpoints should require an actual effort. This proposal is bad, not so much because it is a "daily quest" (I would like to get daily quests in, would also love to set up my own for my corp/alliance without using out of game tools), but because there is literally no effort required. You could as well award the SP for spinning my ship 500 times or just logging on. So Rise, if you want to give us some extra skillpoints, please put some actual work into the topic and make it interesting to get them. Otherwise it will just get farmed until the players get bored.
Astrid Farnsworth Broke and Famous 4	Posted - 2016.04.09 03:42:08 - [449] - Quote Would be cool to add sed rats to sistems where theres no one. To promote doze sistems.
Bienator II madmen of the skies 3521	Posted - 2016.04.09 03:42:44 - [450] - Quote the reason why i started playing this game was because a friend suggested it to me with the words: "Its a MMO where grinding is optional, you can do what you want while your char is progressing - pure sandbox". how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value
Soleil Fournier Ultimatum. The Bastion 121	Posted - 2016.04.09 03:44:58 - [451] - Quote Pleasure Hub Node-514 wrote: Having active and passive SP worked in Dust. Dust was not a sandbox MMO it was a match game FPS that was designed and launched with that system in place. Apples and oranges comparrison despite being an eve game.
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 2733	Posted - 2016.04.09 03:50:33 - [452] - Quote Bienator II wrote: the reason why i started playing this game was because a friend suggested it to me with the words: "Its a MMO where grinding is optional, you can do what you want while your char is progressing - pure sandbox". Technically, that would still be true.
Bobb Bobbington Bros Before Holes The Devils' Rejects 269	Posted - 2016.04.09 03:53:22 - [453] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: Bienator II wrote: the reason why i started playing this game was because a friend suggested it to me with the words: "Its a MMO where grinding is optional, you can do what you want while your char is progressing - pure sandbox". Technically, that would still be true. Psychologically however it would not be. This is a signature. It has a 25m signature. No it's not a cosmic signature. Probably. Btw my corp's recruiting.
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 2733	Posted - 2016.04.09 04:00:24 - [454] - Quote Bobb Bobbington wrote: Frostys Virpio wrote: Bienator II wrote: the reason why i started playing this game was because a friend suggested it to me with the words: "Its a MMO where grinding is optional, you can do what you want while your char is progressing - pure sandbox". Technically, that would still be true. Psychologically however it would not be. Do people feel psychologically bad for not using +5s all the time?
Tarryn Nightstorm Hellstar Towing and Recovery 844	Posted - 2016.04.09 04:04:20 - [455] - Quote This makes what you people originally did to exploration back in Oddity --pardon: Odyssey-- look like the cutting edge of brilliance. No. Just, absolutely no. Stop this already, for Gods' sakes, will you. Star Wars: the Old Republic may not be EVE. But I'll take the sound of dual blaster-pistols over "NURVV CLAOKING NAOW!!!11oneone!!" any day of the week.
Dhurva Aquilia Cohors Praetoria Curatores Veritatis Alliance 5	Posted - 2016.04.09 04:07:50 - [456] - Quote No no no.
Bobb Bobbington Bros Before Holes The Devils' Rejects 269	Posted - 2016.04.09 04:11:08 - [457] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: Bobb Bobbington wrote: Frostys Virpio wrote: Bienator II wrote: the reason why i started playing this game was because a friend suggested it to me with the words: "Its a MMO where grinding is optional, you can do what you want while your char is progressing - pure sandbox". Technically, that would still be true. Psychologically however it would not be. Do people feel psychologically bad for not using +5s all the time? +5s are different however. They're a passive item that people normally don't pay attention to. However, a daily reward sets up a rhythm, a routine if you will, where people become conscious of missing a day and feel compelled to log on simply to shoot an npc and log off. This is a signature. It has a 25m signature. No it's not a cosmic signature. Probably. Btw my corp's recruiting.
Maekchu Gunpoint Diplomacy 190	Posted - 2016.04.09 04:12:59 - [458] - Quote I think this change is rather "meh". To be more specific, I fail to see what this change is trying to achieve or what issue it tries to actually repair. I don't think going into a belt and blowing up a single npc is going to get people into space. Some people really don't give a damn about EvE PvE. Yeah, who knew... Getting SP dumped into your unallocated SP pool just seems a little out of place in EvE. While I prefer an effort to generally fix the PvE in EvE, if SP is to become an award for activities, at least it should be in the form of an item drop. An item drop that can be sold, looted, destroyed or stolen like any other in-game item. This would be closer to the EvE spirit. If you really want to inject unallocated SP into the game, how about using SP as awards for the current opportunities system? Now a new capsuleer gets around 1M SP on character creation, then another 1M would be locked behind the opportunities system giving the more active newbies an opportunity to quickly gain additional SP. That would basically just mean that new characters start with a total of 2M SP, but the 1M of it is awarded for the more active people. Awarding people to get out and actively learn about the game by flying around space. The change in its current state just seems at best, like a half-hearted solution to try to get people out in space. Probably won't really change much about the game if it was released in its current state. Some people will get mad and leave the game, some will think this is their way to catch up and start grinding NPCs. In the end it doesn't really matter, cause SP has so little influence on how to "win" EvE. But if the change does nothing, then why should it be shipped? Basically, I'm trying to say that maybe this one needs a bit more thought before being released.
Elinara Yamamoto Latex Entosis 19	Posted - 2016.04.09 04:26:56 - [459] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: Bobb Bobbington wrote: Frostys Virpio wrote: Bienator II wrote: the reason why i started playing this game was because a friend suggested it to me with the words: "Its a MMO where grinding is optional, you can do what you want while your char is progressing - pure sandbox". Technically, that would still be true. Psychologically however it would not be. Do people feel psychologically bad for not using +5s all the time? Yes, I do. Only on characters with active training time though, the idea from Rise also applies to characters without active skill queue.
Masao Kurata Many Much Mechanics 472	Posted - 2016.04.09 04:30:24 - [460] - Quote CCP Rise wrote: Thanks for all the feedback. Just posting to let you guys know we are reading all of it and even if takes a couple days we will definitely follow up with as many answers as possible. Keep it coming. The "answer" to the whole thread should be "sorry, don't know what we were thinking, please forget we ever mentioned it". Your reply sounds precisely like "we're going to do it regardless so we're preparing soothing statements".
AnnaDLoup Archaic Smile Academy Weyland Industries. 8	Posted - 2016.04.09 04:33:17 - [461] - Quote Hello! I'm very disapointed by this "feature". It's not the spirit of the game that i love.
Lengurathmir Elinor Jovian Labs Jovian Enterprises 12	Posted - 2016.04.09 04:33:47 - [462] - Quote Feeling compelled to log in because FOMO is a real emotional thing for me. NOT GOOD. (FOMO - Fear of missing out) I very highly doubt that I am the only one that feels this way, for me it kills the sandbox. PLEASE RECONSIDER! Some people say you are not forced to get this daily chore reward, if you are emotionally compelled and can not comprehend that FOMO is just an emotion, than this does prove you wrong. Wars IRL have been started cause of emotions and not mere facts. This will drop subscriber numbers at least by the amount of subscribed accounts that I have, should it come to fruition.
johnhoward Bat Country Pandemic Legion 6	Posted - 2016.04.09 04:39:21 - [463] - Quote The whole reason I have remained subbed to this game for so long is precisely because I can play when I want to without missing out on skill point progression. This change will substantially alter the equation and as many have said many people will find themselves compelled to log in. You already have the money from my subscription, for the love of god do not suck my time by making me mindless log in every character as well. By all means offer SP as a reward for completing the newbean quests (or for characters with say less than 5M sp) but for goodness sake do not turn the game i love into space WoW any further.
Tesla Bismarck House of the Dead Monkey SpaceMonkey's Alliance 5	Posted - 2016.04.09 04:40:38 - [464] - Quote This is so stupid, every single alt that has a specific task and is UNABLE to kill a rat without significant gameplay interruption will greatly suffer. This kills immersion and sandbox and EVE ONLINE for me at least... Scouting in a C6 with a ship that has to stay undiscovered for days, to metagame a certain alliance... how would this be any help for this char in a ship that would be unable to kill a rat in this C6 or hop out and kill a belt rat and maybe be seen on dscan for a very short time during this... this is beyong stupid and DOES NOT FIT WITH THE SANDBOX THEME!
beakerax Pator Tech School 253	Posted - 2016.04.09 04:43:44 - [465] - Quote Masao Kurata wrote: The "answer" to the whole thread should be "sorry, don't know what we were thinking, please forget we ever mentioned it". Your reply sounds precisely like "we're going to do it regardless so we're preparing soothing statements". CCP Rise wrote: The blog sparked a really great discussion in the EVE community. We decided to be fairly hands off and see where it would lead without us trying to persuade anyone. We werenGÇÖt sure exactly what to expect but it quickly became clear that many of you were able to see the potential benefits and that youGÇÖre also ready for some big changes in EVE, especially when they might help bring in newer players or give you more freedom with your own characters.
Yoko Andrard Per Umbras 4	Posted - 2016.04.09 04:45:27 - [466] - Quote Really bad idea, we wont playing in another korean mmo
Bobb Bobbington Bros Before Holes The Devils' Rejects 269	Posted - 2016.04.09 04:48:12 - [467] - Quote Hey, CCP Rise. Yes, you. I know you're going to be reading all of these. You said you would. You'll get all your PR responses ready for tomorrow. Etc etc. Let's be honest here. Your minds were already decided before you posted this, and only dropping sub numbers could stop it. But look. This is what I think you should do. Go around the office, show this post or just ask them... Is this really what you want Eve to become? This is a signature. It has a 25m signature. No it's not a cosmic signature. Probably. Btw my corp's recruiting.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 27304	Posted - 2016.04.09 05:01:07 - [468] - Quote Pleasure Hub Node-514 wrote: Having active and passive SP worked in Dust. It worked in Dust because the game was built from the ground up with that system in mind and because it had a single activity that fed a single progression tree and a single, very different, passive scheme. It cannot be implanted post-fact in a freeform sandbox such as EVE. In order for it to work in EVE, it must not be tied to a single activity. Indeed, it must not be tied to any activity at all. It must be properly balanced against the full range and every mode of passive SP acquisition. It must actually encourage the pre-existing gameplay. In other words, it must be none of the things suggested by this proposal to the point where it is wholly disconnected from SP altogether GÇö that scheme is better served by simply increasing the training speed, if that's what they're after (it isn't). Retrofitting a wholly incompatible progression mechanic from an unrelated game GÇö and an entirely different game genre to boot GÇö is so massively unintelligent and contrary to anything even remotely resembling coherent game design that it beggars belief.
Cara Forelli Meticulously Indifferent 1753	Posted - 2016.04.09 05:04:42 - [469] - Quote SP for shooting other players or riot Adventures New player with questions? Join my public channel in game: *House Forelli* Titan's Lament
Harkin Issier Alcoholocaust. Test Alliance Please Ignore 84	Posted - 2016.04.09 05:05:49 - [470] - Quote Tippia wrote: Pleasure Hub Node-514 wrote: Having active and passive SP worked in Dust. It worked in Dust because the game was built from the ground up with that system in mind and because it had a single activity that fed a single progression tree and a single, very different, passive scheme. It cannot be implanted post-fact in a freeform sandbox such as EVE. In order for it to work in EVE, it must not be tied to a single activity. Indeed, it must not be tied to any activity at all. It must be properly balanced against the full range and every mode of passive SP acquisition. It must actually encourage the pre-existing gameplay. In other words, it must be none of the things suggested by this proposal to the point where it is wholly disconnected from SP altogether GÇö that scheme is better served by simply increasing the training speed, if that's what they're after (it isn't). Retrofitting a wholly incompatible progression mechanic from an unrelated game GÇö and an entirely different game genre to boot GÇö is so massively unintelligent and contrary to anything even remotely resembling coherent game design that it beggars belief. Jesus, Tippia. You're on fire.
Helga Chelien Solar Pride MIDAS 22 1909	Posted - 2016.04.09 05:08:54 - [471] - Quote Very good idea. -¥-¦ -+-¦-¦-+ -Ç-¦-ü-ü-é-Ç-¦-+-¦-¦-é-î-ü-Å, -¦-ü-+-+ -¦-¦-ü -¦-é-+--é-+ -+-¦-+-¦-¦-+. -á-¦-ü-ü-é-Ç-+-¦-+-+-ï-+ -à-+-Ç-+-ê-â-Ä -+-¦-ü-é-î -+-¦ -+-Ç-+-¦-â-+-¦-¦-ê-î.
Niko Lorenzio United Eve Directorate 606	Posted - 2016.04.09 05:09:00 - [472] - Quote Tippia wrote: Pleasure Hub Node-514 wrote: Having active and passive SP worked in Dust. It worked in Dust because the game was built from the ground up with that system in mind and because it had a single activity that fed a single progression tree and a single, very different, passive scheme. It cannot be implanted post-fact in a freeform sandbox such as EVE. In order for it to work in EVE, it must not be tied to a single activity. Indeed, it must not be tied to any activity at all. It must be properly balanced against the full range and every mode of passive SP acquisition. It must actually encourage the pre-existing gameplay. In other words, it must be none of the things suggested by this proposal to the point where it is wholly disconnected from SP altogether GÇö that scheme is better served by simply increasing the training speed, if that's what they're after (it isn't). Retrofitting a wholly incompatible progression mechanic from an unrelated game GÇö and an entirely different game genre to boot GÇö is so massively unintelligent and contrary to anything even remotely resembling coherent game design that it beggars belief. Well said and I would say it didn't work in Dust because Dust was a failure. The CSM XI Election are now open until March 25th, 2016. Consider Niko Lorenzio for CSM XI. CSM matters, your voice matters, your vote matters!
Furikanzan Chent-Shi Kool Kiting Klub 0	Posted - 2016.04.09 05:14:08 - [473] - Quote The problem that eve faces is the lack of new blood coming into the game. I have tried getting friends into the game and almost all of them never stuck around. This "Dailies" thing could help if the rewards were in ISK instead. Many new players are extremely risk averse. The concept of losing in eve is much more serious compared to many other MMOs. Lets say the daily takes about 10 minutes to complete for a brand new player and he gets about 8 mil to 10 mil. He is now more inclined to use that ISK to PVP. He could also maybe use the ISK to buy a new missioning ship if he enjoys doing missioning, even mining ships could work. The use of dailies can create the feel of progress for a newer player. Back when I was a new player it took days, weeks and even months to feel like I'm progressing in the game. If we can reduce the burden of initial capital procurement for new players, they might actually stick around. An even better idea I feel would be to let players choose between the 8 mil isk reward or the 10k SP reward. Newer players can tech up faster of they feel like it or get some ISK and PVP with it. The only way to keep alive for another decade is to get the new blood it desperately needs. The current players are already invested into the game and there are people who quit over time, the only way a game can sustain itself is to get more people interested and invested.
Cariq EVE University Ivy League 6	Posted - 2016.04.09 05:15:25 - [474] - Quote I don't think this is a good idea. Perhaps some fixed but exhaustible bonus for the Opportunities/'tutorial' makes sense, like others have proposed, could work...but I really enjoy not feeling like I have to do something in EVE to keep up. I like that when I go on vacation I don't feel like I've fallen behind at all, purely passive SP is really unique to EVE and daily quests seem rather alien to it. I also don't understand why, in a sandbox, you'd want to tie it to ratting specifically. Why is this necessary? Is this trying to increase the overall level of SP in the game, or get SP to ratters?
FT Diomedes The Graduates 2451	Posted - 2016.04.09 05:20:00 - [475] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: Vimsy Vortis wrote: I'm not sure how Logging in to shoot a rat then logging back out because there's still nothing to do is going to create content in any way whatsoever. Shooting NPCs doesn't promote player interaction in any way and player interaction is what creates content. The could set it at more rats in a row for example. The real problem isn't there. The real issue is everybody seeing it as mandatory because they would cry themselves to sleep if they ever missed out on the potentital of 10k SP. This mean that if it is designed to help newbie get to train something faster, it's completely broken because they are the one with the most chance to "miss out" on it because they don't know yet how much of a deal those 10k SP/day are. If they really want to to help newbie, then they should really target newbie plain and simple. Making stuff available to everyone in EVE just make sure everyone profit from it except those damn newbies because they might not even know it's there. Make them train flat out faster for a period of time if need be. Putting some SP across some hurdle only mean vets will do it because it's trivial for them to do it anyway while the newbie actually have to make sure they never miss out if they ever want to just break even with it and potentially not get even further behind in the "SP race" they see when they can't fly much of what vets can. I would have absolutely no problem with CCP's proposal if it only applied to characters with less than 5m SP. I mean, except for the fact that it would be encouraging new players to engage in pointless, boring tasks every day. CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 27304	Posted - 2016.04.09 05:26:19 - [476] - Quote Niko Lorenzio wrote: Well said and I would say it didn't work in Dust because Dust was a failure. There's that too, but I wouldn't place the failure at the feet of the progression system. WellGÇª not entirely, at least. Cariq wrote: I also don't understand why, in a sandbox, you'd want to tie it to ratting specifically. Why is this necessary? Is this trying to increase the overall level of SP in the game, or get SP to ratters? GÇó Because their most critical stat for attracting investors is the appearance of lots of active players. GÇó Because ratting, in its various forms, is an activity that probably involves the most number of players, making it an easy target market. GÇó And because offering a 20GÇô30% boost in SP acquisition is such an insanely good hook that no-one in their right mind will ignore it. Large target market + irresistible bait GåÆ lots of takers GåÆ inflated activity numbers GåÆ appearance of healthy customer base GåÆ easier investment sales pitch. Never mind that something as peculiar and strange to EVE as a large-scale conflict very recently pushed the PCUs into the 40k:s for the first time in almost a year, demonstrating neatly that bribery isn't necessary to give rise to that appearance.
Aioi Yukko Ascendent. Test Alliance Please Ignore 49	Posted - 2016.04.09 05:28:37 - [477] - Quote This is how eve dies. TEST Damage Control Team of Forum Warrior.
Mr Mac Dark Goliath 135	Posted - 2016.04.09 05:38:07 - [478] - Quote Daily/Weekly - Player will decide to do or do not. SP reward - Please no. EVE is unique, keep "level up" mechanism as is. Skill injector has ruined the game. Enough.
Dave Stark 7923	Posted - 2016.04.09 05:42:13 - [479] - Quote CCP Rise wrote: The version of the feature we are planning to deploy first will be a simple 10,000 skill point reward that a character will receive the first time they kill an NPC ship every 22 hours. The skillpoints will go into your unallocated pool to be used however you like. here's a long, but not complete, list of issues with this idea. the reward itself: there's no way to obtain SP other than training, which means there's no active way to obtain SP. this means if i miss a daily reward, that reward is lost to me forever. were the reward in isk, it wouldn't be much of an issue - i could just grind a bit more isk tomorrow. i can't just "grind a bit more sp" tomorrow. you could argue injectors - to which i say, why do veterans get penalised more for missing a day compared to the rest? that's not only a kick in the teeth of missing your daily reward, you're then being kicked while you're down due to the diminishing returns on skill injectors. suggestion: change the reward to something that is otherwise obtainable by regular activity. give us some isk, some lp, some minerals, some meta modules, a blueprint copy - otherwise unobtainable rewards create an issue whereby "missed" days set you back and there is no way to recover, and that is bad. the timeframe: daily is an issue in itself. if you miss a day, you're set back. if you can't play every day, you're instantly at a 'disadvantage'. this makes it feel like you're being penalised for having a life, rather than rewarded for logging in to engage with the game. suggestion: increase the timeframe, and increase the task, and increase the reward. (bad reward aside) 70k sp, for killing 7 ships, every week. effort is the same, reward is the same, and nobody gets shafted for having to spend sunday at the in-laws, or with a sick child, or doing the groceries, or overtime at work. the reset timer: 22hrs may sound pretty nice "you can do it once a day, and because it's not 24hrs there's not that creep as it gets later and later each day" however, you get home from work late one day and that'll ** your schedule for the next few days as you scramble to use that 2hr window to bring the reset timer back to a more "manageable" position (eg ready for you when you get home at 5:30). alternatively, you end up missing a day - already covered why that's bad. suggestion: create a uniform reset timer so it doesn't matter when you do your daily task, downtime is always a good time to reset things. this way i don't have to rush home from work, or mess up my weekend to keep the reset timer at ~5pm so it's not screwing my weekday schedule etc. i'm sure there are more issues but those are the big 3, i feel. the idea itself isn't terrible, but the way you've chosen to implement it has a LOT of room for improvement. edit: overall, the biggest issue that needs addressing most urgently is that in it's current iteration it's a penalty for not logging in, rather than a reward for logging in**.
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 2733	Posted - 2016.04.09 05:51:41 - [480] - Quote Tippia wrote: Niko Lorenzio wrote: Well said and I would say it didn't work in Dust because Dust was a failure. There's that too, but I wouldn't place the failure at the feet of the progression system. WellGÇª not entirely, at least. Cariq wrote: I also don't understand why, in a sandbox, you'd want to tie it to ratting specifically. Why is this necessary? Is this trying to increase the overall level of SP in the game, or get SP to ratters? GÇó Because their most critical stat for attracting investors is the appearance of lots of active players. GÇó Because ratting, in its various forms, is an activity that probably involves the most number of players, making it an easy target market. GÇó And because offering a 20GÇô30% boost in SP acquisition is such an insanely good hook that no-one in their right mind will ignore it. Large target market + irresistible bait GåÆ lots of takers GåÆ inflated activity numbers GåÆ appearance of healthy customer base GåÆ easier investment sales pitch. Never mind that something as peculiar and strange to EVE as a large-scale conflict very recently pushed the PCUs into the 40k:s for the first time in almost a year, demonstrating neatly that bribery isn't necessary to give rise to that appearance. Except the current war won't last an eternity and everyone knows that including CCP. A spike in logins is useless. You need long term stuff. This war will maybe last a few months and then die out with either one side dead or stopping logging for various reasons. If large wars were not rare, they would not cause spikes like this.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 27304	Posted - 2016.04.09 05:57:51 - [481] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: Except the current war won't last an eternity and everyone knows that including CCP. A spike in logins is useless. You need long term stuff. Bribing people to do a dull grind is as short-term a solution as they come. Bringing conflict back into the game is not.
Pleasure Hub Node-514 Pleasure Hub Hotline 79	Posted - 2016.04.09 06:16:23 - [482] - Quote Tippia wrote: Pleasure Hub Node-514 wrote: Having active and passive SP worked in Dust. It worked in Dust because the game was built from the ground up with that system in mind and because it had a single activity that fed a single progression tree and a single, very different, passive scheme. It cannot be implanted post-fact in a freeform sandbox such as EVE. In order for it to work in EVE, it must not be tied to a single activity. Indeed, it must not be tied to any activity at all. It must be properly balanced against the full range and every mode of passive SP acquisition. It must actually encourage the pre-existing gameplay. In other words, it must be none of the things suggested by this proposal to the point where it is wholly disconnected from SP altogether GÇö that scheme is better served by simply increasing the training speed, if that's what they're after (it isn't). Retrofitting a wholly incompatible progression mechanic from an unrelated game GÇö and an entirely different game genre to boot GÇö is so massively unintelligent and contrary to anything even remotely resembling coherent game design that it beggars belief. The introduction of extractors/injectors changes that paradigm significantly. SP acquisition is a production industry now. You're not forced to to play the SP production/harvesting game to benefit from it. Do activities you normally do to earn ISK and purchase SP on the market--use it, resell it, gift it, etc. Passive SP is still available to you. The proposed and existing active sources of SP aren't placed behind inaccessible barriers. Again, skillpoints, don't determine player skill. That point has been beaten to death with the injector discussions. Yes, the 'evolution' of the tribute system proposal to shoot one NPC every 22 hours is significantly underwhelming, but it's an interaction driver nonetheless. Awarding SP to some interaction driver activities isn't going to kill the sandbox. *'One night hauler'* The tell all story of a pleasure bot in Jita 4-4
Miglecz Crafty Enterprises 15	Posted - 2016.04.09 06:28:00 - [483] - Quote This is a themepark feature not a sandbox. It is directing gameplay, so it should not be introduced.
Zappity Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde 2817	Posted - 2016.04.09 06:28:15 - [484] - Quote Bobb Bobbington wrote: Zappity wrote: Maruku Asanari wrote: This isn't going to be the only daily added... I have a lot of trouble with this argument. EVE development is littered with examples of features which were supposed to be iterated on after release and were just dropped. The problem is that it opens the door for similar themepark-style features to be implemented into the game... they specifically said in the OP that they were planning on expanding on all of this. It doesn't matter what they say because they always say that. Like how there would be waves more mobile deployables coming. And siphons would be expanded for different purposes. And sov structures would be able to be independently timezoned. Etc etc. Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
Lug Muad'Dib Wise Humans Sword 50	Posted - 2016.04.09 06:31:36 - [485] - Quote NO
Indahmawar Fazmarai 5025	Posted - 2016.04.09 06:33:08 - [486] - Quote Tippia wrote: (...) Tosawa Komarui wrote: this dosent affect anyone that chooses not to do this. Yes it does. It removes choice; it penalises non-conformance; and it devalues the time they spend in the game doing what they want. There isn't a single positive or beneficial aspect to this idea that hasn't already been tried and rejected for being actively bad for the game. The same can be said about higher transaction fees in NPC stations, and the alternate deal is way worse than "not shooting a NPC today". Frankly, it's funny and sad to see all the peeveepeers bitching about this feature and being dispossesed if they don't kill one NPC today.
beakerax Pator Tech School 253	Posted - 2016.04.09 06:33:31 - [487] - Quote Tippia wrote: Bribing-áGÇª dull grind GÇª conflict GÇª 10k sp for cycling an entosis link!
Miss 'Assassination' Cayman CK-0FF Violence of Action. 71	Posted - 2016.04.09 06:34:58 - [488] - Quote How about not. When a game needs to incentivize logging in every day there's something horribly wrong. Players should actually want to log in to play the game, not to go out to a belt and shoot something for SP then log off again. It would also further increase the impression that the game can't be fully enjoyed by those who can't be on every day.
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 2733	Posted - 2016.04.09 06:36:14 - [489] - Quote Tippia wrote: Frostys Virpio wrote: Except the current war won't last an eternity and everyone knows that including CCP. A spike in logins is useless. You need long term stuff. Bribing people to do a dull grind is as short-term a solution as they come. Bringing conflict back into the game is not. SP is the ultimate carrot. You have people here up in arms as soon as they MIGHT lose SP because the servers are down and you think they won't log in all the alts in the world to get a daily fix of 10k for a long time? It would not be everybody but some people would do it to the very end when EVE dies or CCP remove the option. 1 full injector worth of SP every ~50 days depending on how good you are at following a tight schedule.
Cariq EVE University Ivy League 6	Posted - 2016.04.09 06:38:31 - [490] - Quote Pleasure Hub Node-514 wrote: Having active and passive SP worked in Dust. I'm sure CCP is looking at the engagement numbers from those daily mission systems there. Even on a dying console, Dust was able to retain a die hard userbase that according to Hilmar helped make the game profitable. Having played Dust, the daily system really helped some days to encourage a log in. This implementation isn't the same as DUST's, though. DUST had daily-login-streak bonuses as well as a bonus from battles...which, considering those are the only two things you could really do in DUST, worked decently. EVE is wholly different, and a sandbox. Today I just finished telling three good friends, none of them MMO players [intentionally], that they should try EVE because it was so different from every other MMO, everything else gimicky they've been avoiding. Daily quests are not quality game design. Please don't dilute what makes EVE, EVE. I don't think that this change will be good for the long-term health of EVE.
Dart KpuTuK Republic University Minmatar Republic 4	Posted - 2016.04.09 06:40:35 - [491] - Quote 300k sp per month. It is ~15% of monthly trained SP. So, if CCP want to make EVE an ordinary Korean MMO, isn't it better to make x1.15 training speed when character is online? Online will be sooo high!
Black Pedro Yammerschooner 2359	Posted - 2016.04.09 06:42:29 - [492] - Quote Tippia wrote: Frostys Virpio wrote: Except the current war won't last an eternity and everyone knows that including CCP. A spike in logins is useless. You need long term stuff. Bribing people to do a dull grind is as short-term a solution as they come. Bringing conflict back into the game is not. It is bizarre. Many people at CCP have spent a lot of time telling us (even Rise himself) what keeps people playing the game and it is not engaging in solo and completely trivial PvE content. There is no compelling gameplay in shooting a rat, nor any likelyhood of it sparking any given that hapless rats are plentiful in New Eden and require no teamwork or other player interaction to explode. Rejigging the reward structure of the game to overwhelmingly favour engaging in meaningless and uninteresting solo PvE content on a daily basis makes no sense. If you are trying to make the game better and players play longer before burning out on the inert PvE content, players should be rewarded for interacting with each other and the other activities CCP Rise identified as getting players engaged with the game, not forcing them to make a few unchallenging and tedious clicks that add nothing to the greater game by making the reward structure so skewed that it makes no sense not to. I get that they tried to find the lowest common-denominator of activity in Eve, but shooting a rat is a terrible one. It is too low a bar to be interesting and yet still leaves wide swathes of Eve game play unrewarded. Better just to reward players for being logged in or do a Project Discovery or anything other than the dullest, most grindy form of game play on offer in Eve that is not regularly done by a large number of characters. It is offensive in a sandbox game to have such a onerous requirement for such a specific, I would argue almost niche, activity, if you want to progress as fast as the other players. Either reward everyone equally for logging in, or provide rewards that aren't so mandatory, there is no choice in not doing them. Better yet, use these SP or daily rewards to get players engaging in activities that make the sandbox a more vibrant place, and players cooperating or competing for them. That is, after all, what you told us keeps player coming back to the game. Why Do They Gank?
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 2733	Posted - 2016.04.09 06:43:20 - [493] - Quote Dart KpuTuK wrote: 300k sp per month. It is ~15% of monthly trained SP. So, if CCP want to make EVE an ordinary Korean MMO, isn't it better to make x1.15 training speed when character is online? Online will be sooo high! As if people didn't cry enough already when downtime is extended... You want them to ***** about also missing out of some SP because the server were not up exactly when they are supposed to so they can log back in to get their 15% sp?
Dart KpuTuK Republic University Minmatar Republic 4	Posted - 2016.04.09 06:47:33 - [494] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: Dart KpuTuK wrote: 300k sp per month. It is ~15% of monthly trained SP. So, if CCP want to make EVE an ordinary Korean MMO, isn't it better to make x1.15 training speed when character is online? Online will be sooo high! As if people didn't cry enough already when downtime is extended... You want them to ***** about also missing out of some SP because the server were not up exactly when they are supposed to so they can log back in to get their 15% sp? If they want to kill the game, they should do it in the most sophisticated way!
Jalaluddin Haqqani The Point of View 4	Posted - 2016.04.09 06:51:00 - [495] - Quote Really bad idea
Lug Muad'Dib Wise Humans Sword 50	Posted - 2016.04.09 06:59:19 - [496] - Quote I keep many subscriptions active without time to play cause the skilling things, i love that i can up my SP like all with a full work and family activities. And anyway i don't want to up my SS or pay for another standard mmo.. will be very sad to unsubscribe after 5 years, but why continue to pay all that accounts if the game start to force me to log every day and want to be an 'another mmo'. I hope i won't be alone and money will force CCP to reconsidere that
Miss 'Assassination' Cayman CK-0FF Violence of Action. 71	Posted - 2016.04.09 07:04:49 - [497] - Quote Lug Muad'Dib wrote: I keep many subscriptions active without time to play cause the skilling things, i love that i can up my SP like all with a full work and family activities. And anyway i don't want to up my SS or pay for another standard mmo.. will be very sad to unsubscribe after 5 years, but why continue to pay all that accounts if the game start to force me to log every day and want to be an 'another mmo'. I hope i won't be alone and money will force CCP to reconsidere that Well hopefully they'll notice the reaction and call it off before it becomes a thing. When one of the first posts in the thread is "No. Just No." and it has more than twice the likes of the main post, you know you messed up.
Akrasjel Lanate Naquatech Conglomerate Naquatech Syndicate 1894	Posted - 2016.04.09 07:08:19 - [498] - Quote This means you have no idea how you want the Tribute System(if it's still called that) to look like Akrasjel Lanate Founder and CEO of Naquatech Conglomerate Executor of Naquatech Syndicate Citizen of Solitude
Lan Wang Knights of the Posing Meat FETID 2636	Posted - 2016.04.09 07:10:13 - [499] - Quote can we get daily amulets next so we can spin the lucky wheel to win big prizes, how about asking my facebook friends if i can get some help to boost my skills for 24 hours so i can defeat the level 30 boss? FETID now recruiting pvp pilots & corporations \| lowsec pvp & piracy - Join FETID Loyalist to Angel Cartel & Serpentis
Oxide Ammar 251	Posted - 2016.04.09 07:10:14 - [500] - Quote I'd rather have this NPC on 7 days timer than daily. It gives all opportunity to grab that SP any day they find themselves free for a week span. Lady Areola Fappington: -áSolo PVP isn't dead!-á You just need to make sure you have your booster, remote rep, cyno, and emergency Falcon alts logged in and ready before you do any solo PVPing.
Neadayan Drakhon Heuristic Industrial And Development AddictClan 123	Posted - 2016.04.09 07:10:36 - [501] - Quote Pleasure Hub Node-514 wrote: Harkin Issier wrote: CCP I've quit games over this kind of bullshit. When I feel like I'm falling behind when I'm not logging in, and then I'm not able to log in because I have a real job/life/whatever, I'm much more likely to say ** it and leave. This idea is bad and needs to be stopped. Having active and passive SP worked in Dust. I'm sure CCP is looking at the engagement numbers from those daily mission systems there. Even on a dying console, Dust was able to retain a die hard userbase that according to Hilmar helped make the game profitable. Having played Dust, the daily system really helped some days to encourage a log in. Invalid comparison. EVE is a PC sandbox MMO, Dust is (soon to be was) a console FPS. EVE did not have SP dailies at initial launch. Dust did. EVE and Dust do not share the same player base, most people did not play both. Masao Kurata wrote: CCP Rise wrote: Thanks for all the feedback. Just posting to let you guys know we are reading all of it and even if takes a couple days we will definitely follow up with as many answers as possible. Keep it coming. The "answer" to the whole thread should be "sorry, don't know what we were thinking, please forget we ever mentioned it". Your reply sounds precisely like "we're going to do it regardless so we're preparing soothing statements". Exactly. This idea should go the way of the Gong, but before it ever makes it to TQ, preferably before it makes it to SiSi. Helga Chelien wrote:** Very good idea. No, no its not.
Gaming God Gaming God is groot 68	Posted - 2016.04.09 07:19:03 - [502] - Quote I realy like this Thanks CCP
Eden Halenheit Ki Ulutim 3	Posted - 2016.04.09 07:31:45 - [503] - Quote Actually, we had dailies in eve for years now. Ever dealt with research agents? Still, I dislike this idea. As much as I dislike skill injectors. Planning what skills to train now and what goes later was an important part of the game, a strategic decision that affected one`s playstyle for foreseeable future. That was diminished with skill injectors, now - even more - with dailies. There are a plenty of ways to reward players for pve activities: LP, ISK, RK now too. Why not go with one of those? Affecting SP gain balance can have some serious reprecussions for the game long-term, I think. And there is just one short-term example for you. Far too often now I encounter noobs in incursion communities who actualy can fly t2 battleships efficiently. Thats not bad in itself. Whats bad is that they often utterly unaware of basic game mechanics - such as aligning, scooping drones, etc. Explaining that is utter pain in the arse, and - often - a waste of time too. Some just refuse to listen. Ppl should really spend more quality time on smaller ships, so as to get aquainted with how complicated eve is.
CC Avalos Multiplex Gaming The Bastion 76	Posted - 2016.04.09 07:32:44 - [504] - Quote One day we will be sitting with our grand children, looking up at the stars and say "Kid I remember when SP meant something" "When I was your age, I was mining in a Probe and took me 8 months to fly a Hulk" Check out my YouTube Channel for Eve Online Videos YouTube
Oxide Ammar 251	Posted - 2016.04.09 07:35:10 - [505] - Quote We already have PVE aspect of the game, you have choice to skip them entirely and do what you want. Same goes to these SP opportunities you have the chance to skip them or doing them no one is forcing you. This is like idiot saying no to PLEX special offers because you are now forcing him to take the deal...You don't want it, don't take it DEAL WITH IT!! Lady Areola Fappington: -áSolo PVP isn't dead!-á You just need to make sure you have your booster, remote rep, cyno, and emergency Falcon alts logged in and ready before you do any solo PVPing.
Demica Diaz SE-1 292	Posted - 2016.04.09 07:35:14 - [506] - Quote Am I the only one who found out about this and checked date TWICE to see if this is aprils fools? ... seriouslly... what the... ... I give up...
Lan Wang Knights of the Posing Meat FETID 2636	Posted - 2016.04.09 07:43:00 - [507] - Quote Oxide Ammar wrote: We already have PVE aspect of the game, you have choice to skip them entirely and do what you want. Same goes to these SP opportunities you have the chance to skip them or doing them no one is forcing you. This is like idiot saying no to PLEX special offers because you are now forcing him to take the deal...You don't want it, don't take it DEAL WITH IT!! you are being penalised for not shooting rats, plex offers is not the same thing FETID now recruiting pvp pilots & corporations \| lowsec pvp & piracy - Join FETID Loyalist to Angel Cartel & Serpentis
Sergei Alexeyev KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 4	Posted - 2016.04.09 07:48:10 - [508] - Quote Oxide Ammar wrote: We already have PVE aspect of the game, you have choice to skip them entirely and do what you want. Same goes to these SP opportunities you have the chance to skip them or doing them no one is forcing you. This is like idiot saying no to PLEX special offers because you are now forcing him to take the deal...You don't want it, don't take it DEAL WITH IT!! That would be correct if the reward was ISK instead of SP for daily "opportunities" CCP, please, just scrap this. It's horrible. I'd be decent if integrated into the already existing "opportunities" system. Rewarding new players with 10k SP while learning the game mechanics would be cool. It'd actually be REWARDING. Daily chores (especially for something like SP) is such a bad idea, i'm surprised CCP even bought this up.
Av Ra The Sword Archetype. 14	Posted - 2016.04.09 07:48:48 - [509] - Quote https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/4dz7cb/a_plea_to_ccp_to_not_implement_daily_opportunities/
Oxide Ammar 251	Posted - 2016.04.09 07:48:57 - [510] - Quote Lan Wang wrote: Oxide Ammar wrote: We already have PVE aspect of the game, you have choice to skip them entirely and do what you want. Same goes to these SP opportunities you have the chance to skip them or doing them no one is forcing you. This is like idiot saying no to PLEX special offers because you are now forcing him to take the deal...You don't want it, don't take it DEAL WITH IT!! you are being penalised for not shooting rats, plex offers is not the same thing Not buying injectors from the market is penalizing you. I don't see people whining about. Lady Areola Fappington: -áSolo PVP isn't dead!-á You just need to make sure you have your booster, remote rep, cyno, and emergency Falcon alts logged in and ready before you do any solo PVPing.
Lan Wang Knights of the Posing Meat FETID 2636	Posted - 2016.04.09 07:59:39 - [511] - Quote Oxide Ammar wrote: Lan Wang wrote: Oxide Ammar wrote: We already have PVE aspect of the game, you have choice to skip them entirely and do what you want. Same goes to these SP opportunities you have the chance to skip them or doing them no one is forcing you. This is like idiot saying no to PLEX special offers because you are now forcing him to take the deal...You don't want it, don't take it DEAL WITH IT!! you are being penalised for not shooting rats, plex offers is not the same thing Not buying injectors from the market is penalizing you. I don't see people whining about. You didn't see people whining about injectors? Have you been living in a cave? Injectors are available to everyone regardless of the activity, shooting rats for SP penalises the people who do activities which don't involve rats who also log in daily, pvpers, traders, industrialists etc Creating little PVE events like they have been doing is a better way to offer incentives they can easily make them better this just seems like a lazy Friday night idea FETID now recruiting pvp pilots & corporations \| lowsec pvp & piracy - Join FETID Loyalist to Angel Cartel & Serpentis
Neadayan Drakhon Heuristic Industrial And Development AddictClan 123	Posted - 2016.04.09 08:16:31 - [512] - Quote Tyrant Scorn wrote: Avatharian wrote: All I have to say on the matter. This one is better... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eal4fep7pK4&nohtml5=False Can we tie CCP Rise to his desk chair and make him watch that vid on loop?
Quadira Zacharia Explorations Group Arx Alliance 20	Posted - 2016.04.09 08:16:48 - [513] - Quote EVE is a sandbox, no dailies please!
Zakarumit CZ Zakarum Industries Exiliar Syndicate 189	Posted - 2016.04.09 08:16:53 - [514] - Quote This sounds like a bad idea. Giving people SP for logging in? Bad. Giving SP for logging in AND killing an NPC? Really bad.
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 17626	Posted - 2016.04.09 08:17:45 - [515] - Quote Seriously Rise, was this Z-tier skinner box bullshit really the best you could come up with? I know for a fact you're better than this. Either you need a holiday, badly, or someone is making you do this. Use the worth "orthodoxy" in your next post if you're being forced to do this against your will, and we will get you out mate. We will get you to safety where they can't hurt you any more. "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
Oxide Ammar 251	Posted - 2016.04.09 08:17:57 - [516] - Quote Lan Wang wrote: Oxide Ammar wrote: Lan Wang wrote: Oxide Ammar wrote: We already have PVE aspect of the game, you have choice to skip them entirely and do what you want. Same goes to these SP opportunities you have the chance to skip them or doing them no one is forcing you. This is like idiot saying no to PLEX special offers because you are now forcing him to take the deal...You don't want it, don't take it DEAL WITH IT!! you are being penalised for not shooting rats, plex offers is not the same thing Not buying injectors from the market is penalizing you. I don't see people whining about. You didn't see people whining about injectors? Have you been living in a cave? The end result is CCP did what the intended to do, I didn't see people rage quitting ....I didn't see sky is falling... But when CCP introduce a free way to gain SP, the ** posts roll start over again. You have the free well to skip any aspect of this game, consider this also as one of these aspects. I can dig you ** ton of threads from 3-4 years back asking SP for Plex/ISK or threads asking SP for mission rewards and show you the replies veteran forum warriors. I bet half of them already quit the game for different reasons and the rest are buying Injectors from the market. Lady Areola Fappington: -áSolo PVP isn't dead!-á You just need to make sure you have your booster, remote rep, cyno, and emergency Falcon alts logged in and ready before you do any solo PVPing.
Globscho Thorson Herrscher der Zeit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2	Posted - 2016.04.09 08:18:22 - [517] - Quote I really dislike the idea of giving away SP. It goes against the core mechanic of this game and this is never a good idea. What would be totally legit would be giving away LP for a new store where you can get Skins and stuff like this. Also maybe expend the range of activitys give this new LP for your first activity like first market order, first production and so on. In a sandbox game there should not be a benefit for a single playstile.
Neadayan Drakhon Heuristic Industrial And Development AddictClan 123	Posted - 2016.04.09 08:20:12 - [518] - Quote Eden Halenheit wrote: Actually, we had dailies in eve for years now. Ever dealt with research agents? True, but the reward for doing research agent dailies is minimal, and I imagine many people don't have any research agents running, or even know what they are. That said, I think it's been about 5 months since I've visited my research agents. 4 L4 Research agents with about 21k RP each according to my journal
Neadayan Drakhon Heuristic Industrial And Development AddictClan 123	Posted - 2016.04.09 08:21:18 - [519] - Quote Oxide Ammar wrote: Lan Wang wrote: Oxide Ammar wrote: We already have PVE aspect of the game, you have choice to skip them entirely and do what you want. Same goes to these SP opportunities you have the chance to skip them or doing them no one is forcing you. This is like idiot saying no to PLEX special offers because you are now forcing him to take the deal...You don't want it, don't take it DEAL WITH IT!! you are being penalised for not shooting rats, plex offers is not the same thing Not buying injectors from the market is penalizing you. I don't see people whining about. skill trading shouldn't exist, and neither should SP dailies
Gully Alex Foyle Black Fox Marauders 4356	Posted - 2016.04.09 08:23:12 - [520] - Quote So, let me get this straight. People who log in everyday all 3 alts, for 5 minutes, to shoot 1 NPC get +900k SP a month. Roughly a +50% boost. This is a great idea, because: [ ] Mindless robots make great players [ ] Shooting 1 NPC a day is so much fun, it's the core of what makes EVE such a great game [ ] Killing that 1 red cross will teach you so much about the game [ ] You'll surely meet and engage with lots of wonderful people in those 5 minutes in some random highsec belt [ ] Daily chores will help you be more creative and contribute to the sandbox in many new, exciting ways [ ] ... [X] None of the above and that's why this idea is actually horseshit Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
Ruby Gnollo 4	Posted - 2016.04.09 08:24:09 - [521] - Quote Gerhard Stringfellow wrote: I agree. This is basically introducing grinding to EvE. I understand you can call this grinding, even if it can be done in 5mns/day, which is far less than whatever you'll find anywhere else. But look at the alternative : dozen of alts not bringing a cent to the game belonging to the richest players of Eve. This is really Eve : one of the most toxic player base you can find in the entire industry hiding being glorified countless alts & unsub accounts. And what are you asking for ? Leaving it this way. When Eve had no equivalent anywhere, things could have last the way they did during the last decade, with elder ones playing for free preying for fun on evercoming fresh young blood. I'm really happy CCP is just only beginning to understand this has to change, provided what's important is to give New Eden a future and not only a shell where to hide for the one of the worst players base on Earth.
Bertral Les chevaliers de l'ordre Goonswarm Federation 16	Posted - 2016.04.09 08:30:26 - [522] - Quote Ask yourself this : What does it bring to the game ? How does this contribute to the sandbox ? It only kills one of the main selling points of EVE ("you don't have to grind for xp"), and it's the polar opposite of sandbox gameplay ("login, do this even if you don't want to, get reward, log out"). You can't announce something that's so controversial and not explain the reasoning behind it nor your long term view.
Turelus Caldari Independent Navy Reserve Curatores Veritatis Alliance 1047	Posted - 2016.04.09 08:33:10 - [523] - Quote Ruby Gnollo wrote: Gerhard Stringfellow wrote: I agree. This is basically introducing grinding to EvE. I understand you can call this grinding, even if it can be done in 5mns/day, which is far less than whatever you'll find anywhere else. But look at the alternative : dozen of alts not bringing a cent to the game belonging to the richest players of Eve. This is really Eve : one of the most toxic player base you can find in the entire industry hiding being glorified countless alts & unsub accounts. And what are you asking for ? Leaving it this way. When Eve had no equivalent anywhere, things could have last the way they did during the last decade, with elder ones playing for free preying for fun on evercoming fresh young blood. I'm really happy CCP is just only beginning to understand this has to change, provided what's important is to give New Eden a future and not only a shell where to hide for the one of the worst players base on Earth. If you think this is one of the most toxic communities for online gaming I think you need to spend some time on other MMO's games, or just their forums. B4R would be laughed at and trolled in most other MMO communities I have played in. EVE is full of griefers and trolls but for the most part everyone in this community will put that aside the moment someone in RL needs something. Lieutenant Turelus - Caldari Independent Navy Reserve - The Fourth District
Lan Wang Knights of the Posing Meat FETID 2636	Posted - 2016.04.09 08:33:41 - [524] - Quote Oxide Ammar wrote: Lan Wang wrote: Oxide Ammar wrote: Lan Wang wrote: Oxide Ammar wrote: We already have PVE aspect of the game, you have choice to skip them entirely and do what you want. Same goes to these SP opportunities you have the chance to skip them or doing them no one is forcing you. This is like idiot saying no to PLEX special offers because you are now forcing him to take the deal...You don't want it, don't take it DEAL WITH IT!! you are being penalised for not shooting rats, plex offers is not the same thing Not buying injectors from the market is penalizing you. I don't see people whining about. You didn't see people whining about injectors? Have you been living in a cave? The end result is CCP did what the intended to do, I didn't see people rage quitting ....I didn't see sky is falling... But when CCP introduce a free way to gain SP, the ** posts roll start over again. You have the free well to skip any aspect of this game, consider this also as one of these aspects. I can dig you ton of threads from 3-4 years back asking SP for Plex/ISK or threads asking SP for mission rewards and show you the replies veteran forum warriors. I bet half of them already quit the game for different reasons and the rest are buying Injectors from the market. Yes we have free will to skip any aspect of the game but shooting npc's for SP is penalising the people who don't care to do that, you don't really understand what I'm saying, it's a mechanic which is encouraging people to do a particular activity and if they are not doing that activity then they are being penalised even though they login daily. Everyone can buy injectors by doing any activity they choose but the SP also wasn't just conjured from thin air, it was already trained , being rewarded for shooting rats while not being rewarded for shooting players, or jumping gates isn't really fair on other parties, this hasn't had much thought and seems like a terrible market research operation to generate nice numbers, it doesn't create any content or interaction it's just a bad grind model which implies more bad grind models to follow. FETID now recruiting pvp pilots & corporations \| lowsec pvp & piracy -** Join FETID Loyalist to Angel Cartel & Serpentis
Tipa Riot Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 2374	Posted - 2016.04.09 08:36:54 - [525] - Quote Amarisen Gream wrote: OKAY! First - This needs to be account based. Second - SP isn't the best, but also isn't the worst. Third - there needs to be a pool that the activity can stack up (say 5 max) so people who can't always log on can still have time to get the rewards. Everything this program does, needs to be focused on getting players out of stations and interacting with each other. if that means PVP or PVE, that doesn't matter, but it needs to get people out and mingling. This won't work, because this would miss the obvious purpose of this feature ... forcing enough players to login daily at the same time to inflate the PCU to reach the company goals. I'm my own NPC alt.
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 17626	Posted - 2016.04.09 08:39:09 - [526] - Quote Ruby Gnollo wrote: Gerhard Stringfellow wrote: I agree. This is basically introducing grinding to EvE. I understand you can call this grinding, even if it can be done in 5mns/day, which is far less than whatever you'll find anywhere else. But look at the alternative : dozen of alts not bringing a cent to the game belonging to the richest players of Eve. How are these alternative outcomes? "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 17626	Posted - 2016.04.09 08:40:32 - [527] - Quote Tipa Riot wrote: Amarisen Gream wrote: OKAY! First - This needs to be account based. Second - SP isn't the best, but also isn't the worst. Third - there needs to be a pool that the activity can stack up (say 5 max) so people who can't always log on can still have time to get the rewards. Everything this program does, needs to be focused on getting players out of stations and interacting with each other. if that means PVP or PVE, that doesn't matter, but it needs to get people out and mingling. This won't work, because this would miss the obvious purpose of this feature ... forcing enough players to login daily at the same time to inflate the PCU to reach the company goals. If CCP want players to log in more and shoot NPCs, then making the experience of shooting NPCs fun, challenging and dynamic would be aan infinitely better solution than simply bribing us to. "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
Drago Shouna Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire 329	Posted - 2016.04.09 08:45:05 - [528] - Quote Lan Wang wrote: and what about the people who arent interested in pve? Players who have no interest in pvp get it forced on them on a daily basis Why should you be different? You better go dust off that Civilian Miner
Zerzzes Markarian Andraste. 2	Posted - 2016.04.09 08:45:15 - [529] - Quote Sorry but this is a terrible idea. I would be ok to give skillpoints for the opportunities, because this system is useless so far. Or limit it to new players. One of they great advandtages of EVE is that you don't have to login everyday to grind stuff. Instead you login to have fun. Making it per character is even worse, because it's really not fun to cycle through all characters just to shoot one rat. This way, the game will become a burden, because you will have everday when you don't login you will have a bad feeling. Apart from that, loging in once per day in a cyno alt, to kill a single rat in a belt, doesn't really add conrent. Also 10k is way way too much. That is 900k a month for one account with 3 characters. Thats not too far from what you get with a second skill queue which cost one PLEX.
Zepheros Naeonis TinklePee 77	Posted - 2016.04.09 08:46:50 - [530] - Quote Lucas Kell wrote: Lol, dailies in EVE. It's so terrible, it's brilliant. Couldn't have said it better.
Johan Civire Caldari Provisions Caldari State 1093	Posted - 2016.04.09 08:47:47 - [531] - Quote People calm the f*ck down... Jesus.... You can say what ever you like. The will add this. No matter what we are saying. The ignore it because why not? The doing want the want and or feedback is just to collect data what the are going to lose nothing more! The already do that with so many change now. The game is bleeding to dead. Yah we know ccp. But come on you can do better than daily`s? How about making real "content" than actual forcing to players to keep playing in a game? There is a reason to we are eve online and not world of warcraft or any other casual arcade mmorpg auto clicker game! Grinding sp points well that was a great idea BEFORE you RELEASE SP INJECTORS.... Now its just useless and waste of time if you can spend 10 bucks for sp.......... If the release this i`m out for good yah not because i`m angry no because i`m disappoint in ccp of yet another bad idea. This is not the first time and not the last time to say the least! Eve online statics see here http://eve-offline.net/?server=tranquility. Yah the are bombardment the website so the website can not load here and there.
Gray Hinken Caldari Provisions Caldari State 1	Posted - 2016.04.09 08:47:47 - [532] - Quote No. Just no. Daily mob-based quest with additional XP bonus. Zero creativity.
Lan Wang Knights of the Posing Meat FETID 2636	Posted - 2016.04.09 08:53:03 - [533] - Quote Drago Shouna wrote: Lan Wang wrote: and what about the people who arent interested in pve? Players who have no interest in pvp get it forced on them on a daily basis Why should you be different? You better go dust off that Civilian Miner No they don't, it's easily avoided and is avoided by many players without any penalties, people don't get an SP reward for shooting anot her player so why should a PVE er get SP for shooting a rat? I'm not just talking about pvpers here I'm also talking about miners, traders, haulers, industrialists Wouldn't be surprised if they advance this to a f2p model soon FETID now recruiting pvp pilots & corporations \| lowsec pvp & piracy - Join FETID Loyalist to Angel Cartel & Serpentis
Shallanna Yassavi Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 120	Posted - 2016.04.09 08:53:17 - [534] - Quote Johan Civire wrote: People calm the f*ck down... Jesus.... You can say what ever you like. The will add this. No matter what we are saying. The ignore it because why not? The doing want the want and or feedback is just to collect data what the are going to lose nothing more! The already do that with so many change now. The game is bleeding to dead. Yah we know ccp. But come on you can do better than daily`s? How about making real "content" than actual forcing to players to keep playing in a game? There is a reason to we are eve online and not world of warcraft or any other casual arcade mmorpg auto clicker game! Grinding sp points well that was a great idea BEFORE you RELEASE SP INJECTORS.... Now its just useless and waste of time if you can spend 10 bucks for sp.......... If the release this i`m out for good yah not because i`m angry no because i`m disappoint in ccp of yet another bad idea. This is not the first time and not the last time to say the least! Eve online statics see here http://eve-offline.net/?server=tranquility. Yah the are bombardment the website so the website can not load here and there. That's the essence of P2W right there. They make you do something silly and grindy, or you can just buy the thing from the cash shop instead to do the same thing. 600ish million ISK (so, about 0.6 plex), 400k SP-or, 40 days of this silliness. A signature :o
Praal Bearded BattleBears I N F A M O U S 52	Posted - 2016.04.09 08:59:29 - [535] - Quote Lan Wang wrote: shooting npc's for SP is penalising the people who don't care to do that, you don't really understand what I'm saying, it's a mechanic which is encouraging people to do a particular activity and if they are not doing that activity then they are being penalised even though they login daily. I expect that this is a first step and as they develop it they will add options for other activities. Also, a vast number of other activities give you the opportunity to shoot a npc somewhere. Jumping gates (in null)? Shoot a NPC on the gate. Doing missions? Already done. Doing FW? Already done. Mining? Already done. Incursions? Already done. Ratting/WH escalating? Already done. PvPing? In null? Shoot a NPC as you pass a gate. In FW? Shoot a NPC in a plex. Hot dropping? Shoot a npc in the anom you dropped in. Lan Wang wrote: the SP also wasn't just conjured from thin air, it was already trained This is an illusion. As soon as demand goes up and raises the price to above the PLEX price to produce there is essentially an unlimited amount of alts that can be PLEXd and/or dual-trained to generate SP. Lan Wang wrote: it doesn't create any content or interaction People logging in brings the game to their mind and exposes them to what is going on (via chat, patch notes, evemail from their corp, etc). If even 5 in 100 players who log in to do their daily SPs gets distracted into also doing some other game activity that can still cause 100s to 1000s of players to be more active in the game. Lan Wang wrote: it's just a bad grind model which implies more bad grind models to follow. The grind model was added with injectors. This just opens it up more to poorer/newer players instead of keeping it the realm of veteran / rich players.
David Kir Limited Power Inc Official Winners Of Takeshi's Castle 488	Posted - 2016.04.09 09:06:33 - [536] - Quote Yall people need to get out of your 1337 POS and stop circlejerking over how different and edgy EVE is. This changes NOTHING. And if it helps one more newbro stick with the game, why the hell not. Friends are like cows: if you eat them, they die.
beakerax Pator Tech School 253	Posted - 2016.04.09 09:09:37 - [537] - Quote Praal wrote: The grind model was added with injectors. This just opens it up more to poorer/newer players instead of keeping it the realm of veteran / rich players. remember back when skill injectors were intended for newer players
baltec1 Bat Country Pandemic Legion 17543	Posted - 2016.04.09 09:10:13 - [538] - Quote EVE has always been about an equal playing field in terms of SP progression which is one of the reasons I play this game over any other MMO out there. This opens the door to grinding for your SP which frankly isn't fun or challenging and goes against one of the core selling points of EVE.
Dave Stark 7923	Posted - 2016.04.09 09:16:54 - [539] - Quote baltec1 wrote: EVE has always been about an equal playing field in terms of SP progression which is one of the reasons I play this game over any other MMO out there. This opens the door to grinding for your SP which frankly isn't fun or challenging and goes against one of the core selling points of EVE. to be fair, grinding for SP door was flung open when the character bazaar opened up. however, this idea is bad for other reasons. with the char bazaar, and skill injectors you can do that at your own pace. you can do it to suit you. you're not losing out for doing it on a schedule/time scale that suits you. this proposal, however, is simply a flat out punishment for those who don't log in every day. it's not an incentive to play, it's a punishment for having a life outside of eve.
Gully Alex Foyle Black Fox Marauders 4356	Posted - 2016.04.09 09:18:38 - [540] - Quote Praal wrote: People logging in brings the game to their mind and exposes them to what is going on (via chat, patch notes, evemail from their corp, etc). If even 5 in 100 players who log in to do their daily SPs gets distracted into also doing some other game activity that can still cause 100s to 1000s of players to be more active in the game. Looking at it from a purely PVE point of view, CCP's basically saying: 'If you log on for 5 minutes to kill a rat, you get 10k SP x3, worth on average 50 mil ISK. If you stay logged on, you can make another 50mil ISK in anywhere from, say 20-30 mins to an hour+ depending on what you do.' That's definitely an incentive to stay logged in for more than 5 minutes, isn't it? Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
Khar-Toba That Ore Depleted Quickly 5	Posted - 2016.04.09 09:19:07 - [541] - Quote Dorijan wrote: Let's add the worst feature of any MMO - daily chores - to EVE Online. What could possibly go wrong? This.
Zanzibar Heroshima Tri-gun Psychotic Tendencies. 67	Posted - 2016.04.09 09:21:55 - [542] - Quote Is this a troll?
Seraph Essael eXceed Inc. 1188	Posted - 2016.04.09 09:24:59 - [543] - Quote In this thread, there are two kinds of people: Eve players... And those that came from WoW... Quoted from Doc Fury: "Concerned citizens: Doc seldom plays EVE on the weekends during spring and summer, so you will always be on your own for a couple days a week. Doc spends that time collecting kittens for the on-going sacrifices, engaging in reckless outdoor activities, and speaking in the 3rd person."
Dave Stark 7923	Posted - 2016.04.09 09:25:45 - [544] - Quote Zanzibar Heroshima wrote: Is this a troll? i doubt it. to be fair to ccp, the idea could work. the problem is they've set it up all wrong. the reward is totally inappropriate, the task doesn't promote any player interaction, and the time window and reset mechanic is inconvenient at best and stupid at worst. the concept isn't horrible - the implementation is.
Dino Zavr Shadow Owls 71	Posted - 2016.04.09 09:26:52 - [545] - Quote Short: Please change the reward to aurum tokens OR limit dailies to GÇ£non-milkableGÇ¥ less than 5m sp toons. Long: I no longer expect Eve Online to attract players. What players are interested in is fun and new exciting challenges. Instead I see some changes: - learning scanning skills is boring GÇô Okay here are SOE ships - rising standings is boring GÇô Okay install jump clones and set POSes (and upcoming Citadels will successfully eliminate the need of standings for trading) - learning skills takes too long GÇô well here are some injectors Long progress and achievements requiring some thinking, planning and efforts are eliminated in favor of some immediate effects. In my opinion this favors not the NEW players, but LAZY and DUMB ones. Implementing the design ideas of WoW or World of Tanks is not a brilliant move as Eve Online for many years had served as a shelter: the antipode to games based on dumb repetitive grinding or donating. Why to change this? Sandbox is not much compatible with "volunteer-obligatory" procedures. There are literally thousands of small (and bigger) GÇ£little thingsGÇ¥ players eager to see in the game, many of them are really required. Players want new and interesting features, plain daily GÇ£kill an NPCGÇ¥ is definitely not one of these. But CCP is stubborn and it shall be implemented regardless of players opinions. To minimize the damage I'd suggest limiting these dailies to the toons not eligible for extracting SP GÇô less than 5.5m SP, or changing the reward into something luxury: apparel, SKINs, e.g. what may be purchased for Aurum, so it is logical to handle Aurum tokens as the reward (implementing some other GÇ£OKGÇ¥ - Opportunity Kredits to be redeemed like LP or AK is also an option). Thanks.
Neadayan Drakhon Heuristic Industrial And Development AddictClan 123	Posted - 2016.04.09 09:27:28 - [546] - Quote MekaJonna wrote: Quote: we make sure there is one single mechanism that brings new skillpoints in to the system GÇô training. This. Yes it's been quoted a few times in this thread. But even if everyone were to have pointed it out, it still wouldn't be enough times. CCP, seriously, no dailies.
Anshau The Reborn The Gorgon Empire 2	Posted - 2016.04.09 09:28:09 - [547] - Quote Are you kidding? Ofc NO Are you going to turn EVE to WoW?
Khar-Toba That Ore Depleted Quickly 5	Posted - 2016.04.09 09:28:30 - [548] - Quote CCP Rise wrote: As you guys surely know, having people in game and in space is great and we want to start promoting and rewarding activity a little more directly. How about you fix the systems, so players WANT to get out and do stuff! Good old CCP band aid Fix!
Kibmatar Na'Vi. DURA LEXX 21	Posted - 2016.04.09 09:30:36 - [549] - Quote Old players will leave more and more with this features, and the new ones willnt stand: switch to the other archeage project Does ccp think that they add something valuable?
Gully Alex Foyle Black Fox Marauders 4356	Posted - 2016.04.09 09:32:42 - [550] - Quote David Kir wrote: Yall people need to get out of your 1337 POS and stop circlejerking over how different and edgy EVE is. This changes NOTHING. And if it helps one more newbro stick with the game, why the hell not. Hi newbro and welcome to EVE! SP isn't all that important in this game, but since you're new you'll need at least a minimum amount to do stuff in this game. So here's the deal: if you log in everyday to do an extremely boring chore, you can get some for free! If you want even more, you'll need to immediately make 2 alts even if you have no idea what to do with them, cuz you can't miss out on those SP, can you? Is this stupid and boring as f*k? Sure! That's why the vets don't really need to do it, but hey you do cuz you're new and need to catch up as fast as you can! Happy grinding, newbro!' Yes, newbros will love this and go tell all their friends how great a game EVE is. Not at all like those stupid smartphone apps... Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
Yadaryon Vondawn Art Of Explosions 404 Hole Not Found 112	Posted - 2016.04.09 09:47:20 - [551] - Quote It is a wonderful idea to reward players for being active but I think the implementation should be different. The way I see it this idea has a few problems: You have to log in Boundaries are not clear and for now the cost-of-entry appears to low It forces players with no interest in certain parts of the game to take part in stuff they do not find interesting Awarding Skillpoints I'll go over these points in some detail. Problems 1: One of the things that make EVE different (I am not saying better) from a lot of MMORPG's is that there is no incentive or need for players to log in except for social pressure. This makes it so that when I am on vacation or enjoying a day or two over the weekend away from my computer I don't have that little voice in my head telling me that I am loosing out on something. Many a MMORPG I played had a daily system and it is quite annoying. I think not having such a system is a unique aspect to EVE Online that I would not like to see go. People may claim that you do not have to do these dailies because it is only 10K SP. But when I am unable to do that daily I know I will feel something unpleasant about either during that day or later because I missed out. I think it is much better to be drawn in by the power of friendship than by the power of skillpoints (see point 4). Imagine your corpmates logging in, killing a NPC and log back off. For just a moment I thought I could enjoy what I joined EVE for, the social aspect. I think this has the potential to be damaging. 2: Killing a single NPC and getting this reward seems like a problem to me. Imagine you only have 5 minutes on a certain day to potentially log into EVE. You have to because otherwise you will miss out on those Skillpoints! Logging in you are greeted by your fellow corpmates. But since you are going to someplace else in 5 minutes you hop into your Ishtar, shoot the first rat in a Sig in your home system and log back off. See the end of point 2 for this. The cost-of-entry, a single rat, feels, for reasons outlined above, to low. Players will start snagging a single NPC kill from a corpmate who is running a site, or shoot a single one and leave it be for someone who wants to complete the site. This low barrier encourages people not to complete a site. Thereby not doing PVE after all. 3: Some players are just not meant for PVE. Those players will, I think, start behaving as I described above. But PVP players benefit just as much from Skillpoints as PVE players. On one hand this is an excellent idea since it almost forces PVP players to try PVE content. On the other hand it almost forces players to do something they do not want to do, just to get the reward. 4: Awarding skillpoints is, I think, the core problem here. It is just a value to valuable to pass up on. Players above 80M SP get 150K SP from a single skill injector costing about 625M~ at the moment. That means shooting a single rat earns you 42M~. And unlike skill injectors there is no diminishing bar upon reaching a certain skillpoint amount. For players with more skillpoints it is even better (costwise) than lower skillpoint players. Which I think should be other way around. If you would miss 10M ISK if you would miss a daily people would not be nearly as upset I think. Skillpoints still have that air around them of being supernice, because they are. So, having outlined the issues that I think sprout from this idea let's try and offer some constructive idea's and fixes here. I am not a game-designer, I do not say this is the path to go. I do however think offering my insight in this matter may lead to a better, more satisfying implementation of a daily reward system. Possible fixes 1: A daily reward system incentifies people to log in daily while they might no want to do so. This can be fixed by storing the reward if a player does not log in. But because this would kill the idea of a daily reward I suggest diminishing returns here. Something like that could, for example, look like this: 100% return on the first missed day 100% return on the second day 90% return on the third day 80% return on the fourth day etc The reason a player should be allowed to miss two days unpunished are outlined in Problems point 1. No pressure to log in to just do the daily, no punishment the first days. This way the daily aspect is preserved, the player is not punished for enjoying/living his actual life and the still incentifies people to take part in the reward system. 2: As described in Problems point 2 killing a single NPC/can/asteroid or whatever is a barrier to low. With a careful approach I think this can be fixed and still encourage people to enjoy the PVE of EVE. Single NPC should become to site completion. People should not be punished for running sites together though. Mining/gas/ice or asteroid should be moved to X amount of cycles. Asteroid depletion could be a problem I think. Hacking a site should become site completion. Again, people should not punished for running sites together. At the moment I am unsure what the goal is of this daily system. Do you want players to do more PVE or do you want more daily log ins? Now I get the feeling you would want players to enjoy or at least try PVE. In that case it would be very strange to reward players for a single kill. Which bars to set here I cannot say for sure, these are suggestions. I do think however that this should be revisited.
Yadaryon Vondawn Art Of Explosions 404 Hole Not Found 112	Posted - 2016.04.09 09:48:09 - [552] - Quote 3: This touches upon what I said two sentences above, what is the goal of this system? If it is meant to encourage people to try PVE this is a problem. If the goal is to get people to log in you could just extend the reward to the first frig or above killed within those 22 hours. If it is for PVE however this is more difficult. People are almost forced to do PVE content in order not to miss out on the reward. By at least not forcing players to do it everyday, and not punishing them for that, I think people would be willing to do some PVE every once in a while. See the solution at point 1 for this. 4: This is the elephant in the room. Skillpoints are just very attractive and something almost every player wants. I am not sure what to change this into but skillpoints are just...valuable. This value is not so much the actual ISK value but the value they have in the players mind. 'Not logging in today will cost me skillpoints'. Again this can be fixed by storing the reward with diminishing returns but even then I think it would be better to swap this for something else. Security status, Concord LP or pure ISK seem like the best options to me here. I hope this gives some options to think about and add to the conversation! Please approach this very carefully :)
Andre Lvov Keepers of Balance Legion of xXDEATHXx 66	Posted - 2016.04.09 10:03:04 - [553] - Quote new team CCP, you a shame EVE Online ! _________________________________ Fish begins to stink at the head.
Cat Evergreen EVE University Ivy League 7	Posted - 2016.04.09 10:05:25 - [554] - Quote I came up with the following points: Problem: The bonus is too powerfull. My current training queue gives me about 60k SP per day thanks to my remap and +4 implants. Getting 10k SP per day on every of my 3 chars nets me 30k SP extra per day giving me a 50% boost. (Thanks to skill injector inefficency on the two chars where I would pull SP out, it would net me only 22k SP extra per day, still a 36% boost.) Solution idea: If you leave the way you gain those bonus SP as currently planed, than make the amount smaller (3k or less), so it would come down to a 10% to 12% boost. Problem: It undermines the multiple character training. Giving it to every character, no matter if he has an active training or not, makes it possible to gain SP on characters where I didn't pay for a multiple character training. You will hurt your own sales on this service. Solution idea: Limit those bonus SP to characters that have an active training. Problem: Old players can use it too and stay ahead of new players. I understand that you look for ways to help new players close the SP gap to the older players. My character is a bit over 2 years old and I am far away from capital ships, so I understand the need for more SP. But giving those extra SP to everyone just helps older characters with many SP to stay ahead of the new players. Solution idea A: Limit the extra SP to chars with less than a certain SP amount (like 5mil, so it can't be used for skill injector farming). Solution idea B: Limit the extra SP to chars below a certain age (like one year, so it can't be used for skill injector farming either). Problem: It only encourages people to ratting, but not the many other aspects of the game. One of the many aspects in this game is trading, which doesn't require people to undock and even so we PvP players make fun of those station traders we are happy that those people exist because they keep the market alive where we buy our new ships and sell our loot. Solution idea: Give this bonus for other activites too, (for mining a rock, hacking a can, killing a player, selling something on the market, building something, ...). Of course not for all at one day, but one out of these activities a day should be enough to get the bonus SP. Problem: It would add more grind, which will make people feel bad. Grinding is bad, because when ever I can't log in to get my bonus SP for what ever RL reasons, I would feel bad for missing SP, I would feel that I fall behind all those other people that managed to get their bonus SP that day. Giving people a reason to log in each and every day, will put preasure on their balance between RL and Eve. Giving people a bonus for logging in each day, increases the risk of game addiction. Problem: It would add more grind, which would interfere with player driven content. The time limited PvE opportunities (Frostline sites, Guristas sites) already where a step in that direction. I didn't like the idea, but during the Frostline event I gave it a try and ended up using it as a way to find more PvP. I might have done the same with the Guristas sites, but my Corporation was at war and we had a lot to do in destroying enemy structures. Some of our forces where driven away from the war in their pursuit of Guristas sites, so they missed the content that a lot of people had worked hard to create for them. And those that fought the war felt they missed their chance of rich loot by not being able to run Guristas sites. CCP advertised Eve as being a game that is driven by player created content. And the current stream of new players that come to the game because they heard of the Great Northern War (or World War Bee, or whatever) is prove of how well that concept works. I joined Eve because I heard about the Bloodbath of B-R and I stayed in Eve because I found a player run corporation where I now create content on my own for me, my corpmates and others. I'd feel betrayed if you move from player driven content to game driven content. Problem: Grind does not improve game play. When I joined Eve we still had a 24h limit on the skill queue, so I had to log in every few days to keep it running. Before I joined a player corporation I was mainly running agent missions, grinding them for mony and standings to be able to grind higher level missions for more money. Eventually I lost interest in the game and stopped playing for month. The skill queue mecanics "forced" me to log in regulary, as the daily SP bonus would "force" me to log in. But as the skill queue mecanic couldn't improve the fun I have, so can't the new daily SP bonus. Only after I decided to join a player corporation I really enjoyed playing Eve. (Which also proves that your concept of player driven content works.) Big Solution idea (for 5, 6 and 7): Don't add bonus SP as a form of grinding. Taking the ideas from 3 and 4 into consideration I think a bonus for new players, that encourages them to try out all the different aspects of Eve, is better than a flat out daily grind: Give bonuses for the first time a (new) player does an activity (like killing a rat). Give this inital bonus equally for all activities. (So he is pushed to try them out.) Give an additional bonus when he pursues an activity (like killing 10 more rats). Make the additional bonus lower for any following activity he pursues, so he doesn't feel pushed towards an activity that he tried out (thanks to the initial bonus) but didn't liked.
Ruby Gnollo 4	Posted - 2016.04.09 10:05:49 - [555] - Quote Dino Zavr wrote: Long: I no longer expect Eve Online to attract players. What players are interested in is fun and new exciting challenges. Instead I see some changes: - learning scanning skills is boring GÇô Okay here are SOE ships - rising standings is boring GÇô Okay install jump clones and set POSes (and upcoming Citadels will successfully eliminate the need of standings for trading) - learning skills takes too long GÇô well here are some injectors Let's try to answer this one. Every MMO keeps proving content by adding extensions to existing gameplay : not by changing or adjusting existing gameplay, just because it's far more efficient doing so. If you want to keep your existing playerbase, you have to create new content where incoming players have more or less equal opportunities than elders : a thing at which CCP fails far too often. Providing free SPs, but whatever various means helps incoming players to have more or less same opportunities than elders. Elders keep the most significant advantage : they fly ships quite better than newcomers would ever do. Of course, we could also expect from CCP to do far better than anyone else in the industry. We know their commitment, for sure they might, but until they do, the more ways newcomers will have to catch on with elders, the better for the game. Getting for free skills you don't know how to use, like pvp skills, won't change anything to the existing in-game political situations.
ADLAN STEZ 145	Posted - 2016.04.09 10:11:55 - [556] - Quote CCP Rise wrote: Hi I'm here to give you guys a heads up that sometime early next week a small daily activity reward feature will be hitting Singularity and will hopefully be making its way to TQ sometime just after Citadel. As you guys surely know, having people in game and in space is great and we want to start promoting and rewarding activity a little more directly. The version of the feature we are planning to deploy first will be a simple 10,000 skill point reward that a character will receive the first time they kill an NPC ship every 22 hours. The skillpoints will go into your unallocated pool to be used however you like. You will find the status of your daily skill boost in the Opportunities info panel and you will also receive notifications to let you know when it becomes available. That's it for now. If this goes well we hope to expand in several ways, but more on that later! Feedback appreciate as always, CCP Rise for Team Size Matters Unfortunately, it will find a weak game. And not a living universe of EVE . Glass beads for the natives.
Geronimo McVain McVain's Minning and Exploration Inc 26	Posted - 2016.04.09 10:14:07 - [557] - Quote I like it! If you are dedicated as a young player you can raise faster out of the valley of low skill. You still get your normal SP so this isn't something you have to do. Most people that play the game will log in almost daily and if you don't the loss isn't that great. After a certain time you are just aiming for goals but you don't really need the point so there isn't any real loss. When they put in other activities like building, trading etc 95% of the people will just take the point while they are doing what they always do. At the moment players that just hold the account and log in every 3 month to update the skillque raise as fast as someone who logs in daily and plays 3 hours.
baltec1 Bat Country Pandemic Legion 17543	Posted - 2016.04.09 10:17:40 - [558] - Quote Ruby Gnollo wrote: Providing free SPs, but whatever various means helps incoming players to have more or less same opportunities than elders. Elders keep the most significant advantage : they fly ships quite better than newcomers would ever do. New player 1 plays only on the weekend Newplayer 2 is unemployed bum/strudent(bum) or living the single life dream and plays every day. Newplayer 1 is disadvantaged to the tune of 50k SP every week they play. This is good how?
Aelavaine University of Caille Gallente Federation 78	Posted - 2016.04.09 10:20:09 - [559] - Quote Well, obviously CCP has a problem with the amount of active players. But instead making the game more interesting for more players with more types of activities to choose from, you have chosen the dullest way to accomplish that. Congratulation. I hope the employee who came up with that idea is worth its money. WiS for example is way, way more expensive but creates content contrary to your implementation. It's an ISK sink (rentable larger quartiers for example), gives no one an advantage for using it, creates no emotional stress of missing something if not using it. Provides roleplayers with more room to live their game and stay logged in. Gives CCP the advantage of selling more cosmetic items (why should I buy boots with aurum if nobody can see them) and doesn't interfere with the core game. Support the freedom to go wherever you want. Support Walking in Stations!
Big Lynx 5668	Posted - 2016.04.09 10:22:06 - [560] - Quote Unscheduled Downtime = neckbeards cry for free skillpoints Daily mission for 10k lousy skillpoints = neckbeards salty??? WTF
Dave Stark 7923	Posted - 2016.04.09 10:22:44 - [561] - Quote baltec1 wrote: Ruby Gnollo wrote: Providing free SPs, but whatever various means helps incoming players to have more or less same opportunities than elders. Elders keep the most significant advantage : they fly ships quite better than newcomers would ever do. New player 1 plays only on the weekend Newplayer 2 is unemployed bum/strudent(bum) or living the single life dream and plays every day. Newplayer 1 is disadvantaged to the tune of 50k SP every week they play. This is good how? the unemployed bum is more likely to try and plex his accounts, that's more money per 30 days than the other guy, so it's more important to keep him as a customer by giving him an extra leg up.
Gully Alex Foyle Black Fox Marauders 4356	Posted - 2016.04.09 10:23:32 - [562] - Quote baltec1 wrote: Ruby Gnollo wrote: Providing free SPs, but whatever various means helps incoming players to have more or less same opportunities than elders. Elders keep the most significant advantage : they fly ships quite better than newcomers would ever do. New player 1 plays only on the weekend Newplayer 2 is unemployed bum/strudent(bum) or living the single life dream and plays every day. Newplayer 1 is disadvantaged to the tune of 50k SP every week they play. This is good how? To be fair, anybody with more free time can do more stuff in EVE (or any game, for that matter) than those of us who don't have/don't want to dedicate so much time. The problem is that this bs is pointless and ridiculously unbalanced compared to any of the current PVE/ISK making activities. It actually devaluates current PVE activities, since it's an easy way to make 50m ISK in 5 minutes every day. Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
Yarosara Ruil Haighare Pirates 194	Posted - 2016.04.09 10:32:09 - [563] - Quote You guys are complaining lowder now than when they announced Skill Extractors. And Skill Extractors didn't kill EVE. I mean, sure, give us more variety to these daily opportunities. Scan a wormhole, do a mission, lose a ship, do an industry job, anything really. But this is way better than playing Skill Queue Online.
beakerax Pator Tech School 253	Posted - 2016.04.09 10:33:42 - [564] - Quote Gully Alex Foyle wrote: To be fair, anybody with more free time can do more stuff in EVE (or any game, for that matter) than those of us who don't have/don't want to dedicate so much time. Ruby's posting was implying that this was an issue of active new players vs inactive old players. baltec's point is that age doesn't come into it.
NuttBaked Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 1	Posted - 2016.04.09 10:35:47 - [565] - Quote You know what. I would like to ask one question. WHY? I'm not a vet (9 months) but I'm already bitter. Another skill injector to farm every 50 days yay. Add that to the 3 you can currently get each month, the passive PI/semi passive market trading, there really is no need to be doing silly things like earning ISK or paying for subs anymore. Think I'll cancel my 6 month/12 month subs next time round and just farm characters when I need to pay for my game time.
The Golden Serpent Tzedakah Aegis Militia 153	Posted - 2016.04.09 10:36:50 - [566] - Quote Excellent, CCP! More like this please. Powercreep is a game killer, this will help retain the newbies by battling powercreep and dailies are VERY addictive and enjoyable as anyone who plays WoW can tell you. Having a little routine in Eve will make it worth staying subbed to. Senior players have nothing to complain about here in my opinion, they don't know what life is like in Eve fighting people with vastly superior skills. Identical fit-to-fit you cannot win against someone with a decade of skills even if your twitch is greater. This is not fair, but fair is not the issue and never was, it just makes for a boring game for both sides.
Dino Zavr Shadow Owls 71	Posted - 2016.04.09 10:43:55 - [567] - Quote Ruby Gnollo wrote: Dino Zavr wrote: Long: I no longer expect Eve Online to attract players. What players are interested in is fun and new exciting challenges. Instead I see some changes: - learning scanning skills is boring GÇô Okay here are SOE ships - rising standings is boring GÇô Okay install jump clones and set POSes (and upcoming Citadels will successfully eliminate the need of standings for trading) - learning skills takes too long GÇô well here are some injectors Let's try to answer this one. Every MMO keeps proving content by adding extensions to existing gameplay : not by changing or adjusting existing gameplay, just because it's far more efficient doing so. If you want to keep your existing playerbase, you have to create new content where incoming players have more or less equal opportunities than elders : a thing at which CCP fails far too often. Providing free SPs, but whatever various means helps incoming players to have more or less same opportunities than elders. Elders keep the most significant advantage : they fly ships quite better than newcomers would ever do. Of course, we could also expect from CCP to do far better than anyone else in the industry. We know their commitment, for sure they might, but until they do, the more ways newcomers will have to catch on with elders, the better for the game. Getting for free skills you don't know how to use, like pvp skills, won't change anything to the existing in-game political situations. Ruby, I post here not to argue with anyone, but to provide some (hopefully) constructive feedback, as I have my own opinion about proposed change and ideas how to implement this. Of course, everything changes as the progress is inevitable. However, the direction Eve evolves really upsets me. Standings are no longer required, there are debates about eliminating learning implants and remaps. One see this as improving NPE, another as dumbing Eve down. The results may really happen frustrating: buy golden ammo and start grinding since day one. If no time left for your favorite activities, well, that's your problem. Sure, nobody forces me to grind, however, I still see the upcoming changes as removing sand from a sandbox. And, emotionally/irrationally, I don't like that. Daily grinding is NOT what I expect from my favorite MMO. I mean it. IMHO: Good gardening is getting rid of dead branches, but, well, why to replace that by some ugly new plants? As for dailies solution: it is OK for me if CCP changes rewards to Aurum tokens.
beakerax Pator Tech School 253	Posted - 2016.04.09 10:50:28 - [568] - Quote The Golden Serpent wrote: Excellent, CCP! More like this please. Powercreep is a game killer, this will help retain the newbies by battling powercreep and dailies are VERY addictive and enjoyable as anyone who plays WoW can tell you. Having a little routine in Eve will make it worth staying subbed to. Senior players have nothing to complain about here in my opinion, they don't know what life is like in Eve fighting people with vastly superior skills. Identical fit-to-fit you cannot win against someone with a decade of skills even if your twitch is greater. This is not fair, but fair is not the issue and never was, it just makes for a boring game for both sides. this is some next level stuff right here
Drago Shouna Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire 329	Posted - 2016.04.09 10:51:04 - [569] - Quote Man sooo many tears here, I'm loving it Some of you have commented on my posts regarding wardecs, quite vigorously as well. Because my way of avoiding them and laughing at you is just to log on an alt and chuckle at the 50mil you just lost. For that I get constantly told that I'm in the wrong game, I'm a carebear, I'm not providing "content" by undocking and getting shot. The way I see this (and i'm surprised nobody has mentioned it) is it's possibly a massive "content" creator. You see, when you wardec just for the sake of it as you do now, players just dock up for the most part. But now it's going to be very different, these docked up players will have to make a massive choice, stay docked up and miss out, or undock to find an anom, belt rat etc, therefore providing an enormous amount of targets and "content" I see it as a massive content generator for the poor targetless hs wardec crowd. Or anyone in any space with more undocked targets for them. So please don't come crying that there's nothing for you "elite" pvpers, this should provide plenty of potential targets. As for the guys with 7 accounts and 21 characters, why you need so many accounts will always be beyond me, so tough, log them or not, it was your choice to have them.
Pleasure Hub Node-514 Pleasure Hub Hotline 79	Posted - 2016.04.09 10:51:14 - [570] - Quote Neadayan Drakhon wrote: Invalid comparison. EVE is a PC sandbox MMO, Dust is (soon to be was) a console FPS. EVE did not have SP dailies at initial launch. Dust did. EVE and Dust do not share the same player base, most people did not play both. Just a quick point of clarification. Dust did not launch with daily missions. That feature didn't come until the end of 2014 after CCP reshuffled the prior teams who worked on Dust. CCP Rouge (Shanghai Executive Producer) and CCP Rattati (Sr. Director) certainly fixed and balanced a lot of features (helping the game actually become profitable), but it was a broken ship on a dead console when they arrived. There's only so much you can do with baked in Frankenstein Unreal 3 code to stave off lighting PS3 consoles on fire. https://dust514.com/news/2014/12/uprising-1.10-overview-patch-notes/ *'One night hauler'* The tell all story of a pleasure bot in Jita 4-4
Dave Stark 7923	Posted - 2016.04.09 10:57:30 - [571] - Quote The Golden Serpent wrote: dailies are VERY addictive and enjoyable as anyone who plays WoW can tell you. lmao they were literally the reason i quit. i stopped playing the game because of daily quests. both literally and metaphorically.
NotTheSmartestCookie New Order Logistics CODE. 88	Posted - 2016.04.09 10:59:20 - [572] - Quote CCP Rise wrote: For now it will be per character, even if they aren't actively training. "how about a reward for either killing an NPC, hacking a Data/Relic thingy or popping a rock?" - Likely one of the first ways we would look to expand in a follow-up release. Killing a miner? Making New Eden a better place 8 rounds of Void at a time
Sgt Ocker Kenshin. DARKNESS. 898	Posted - 2016.04.09 11:03:26 - [573] - Quote CowQueen MMXII wrote: Seriously? What do i get for doing pvp kills? How should someone who is living in some high class wormhole do this stuff? What do I get for having logged in without any extra incentive for almost six years on a daily basis? If such a mechanic existed when I started playing, I probably wouldn't have started playing at all. Really. Living in a high class WH stops you from killing a single NPC every 22 hours to gain free SP. Damn WH life must be so bad, why do you do it. Try this; Use one of your statics to get to highsec or even lowsec, warp to any asteroid belt, lock up one npc frigate, press ctrl, wait 10 seconds, return to your high class WH. My opinions are mine. If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Eli Porter Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde 25	Posted - 2016.04.09 11:05:26 - [574] - Quote Years ago: Let's add skill queues so players don't feel forced to log in. Now: Let's add daily opportunities so players are forced to log in.
Trader20 Hedion University Amarr Empire 40	Posted - 2016.04.09 11:09:13 - [575] - Quote Yesss raging vets is just one of the features
Lan Wang Knights of the Posing Meat FETID 2636	Posted - 2016.04.09 11:11:14 - [576] - Quote i remember playing some crappy f2p/p2w mmo for a long time, these daily rewards models just encouraged account sharing, when you cant do the daily quest because you are on holiday just get your friend to login and do them for you, vice versa, it also encouraged botting, thats when it got to a stage where grinding was an activity which was a necessity not a choice and these daily tasks needed to be done to survive, i hope ccp doesnt go down this route FETID now recruiting pvp pilots & corporations \| lowsec pvp & piracy - Join FETID Loyalist to Angel Cartel & Serpentis
Sgt Ocker Kenshin. DARKNESS. 898	Posted - 2016.04.09 11:12:17 - [577] - Quote NightmareX wrote: Xenuria wrote: Do NPCs in missions count towards this? I don't think so. I do believe you actually have to make some effort to find a specific rat / npc to be able to gain the skillpoint award. And that's perfectly fine in my opinion if it will be that way. Instead of sitting in station ship spinning, you actually get rewarded for doing something instead. Not according to the OP, which states; Quote: The version of the feature we are planning to deploy first will be a simple 10,000 skill point reward that a character will receive the first time they kill an NPC ship every 22 hours. Nothing there to indicate these will be "special" npc's My opinions are mine. If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Thraex Aelius Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde 1	Posted - 2016.04.09 11:23:56 - [578] - Quote Hey CCP. How about making it a daily login reward. - Every day (after cluster shutdown) that an account log in, it will get credited 10k SP to be used on any one character. This will get more people to log in every day, and more players logged in = more activity in space. But if you insist on the idea of giving out SP for being active in space itself, then at least come up with a better plan to implement it.
Thraex Aelius Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde 1	Posted - 2016.04.09 11:24:42 - [579] - Quote x
Tomika Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 18	Posted - 2016.04.09 11:25:14 - [580] - Quote Tippia wrote: Ok. Bye. I would be grateful for your stuff.
War StalkeR NOOBIAN UNION Bright Side of Death 9	Posted - 2016.04.09 11:28:24 - [581] - Quote 1 SP per 1 CONCORD ship killed by player. NOT!
Mister Ripley Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde 185	Posted - 2016.04.09 11:32:51 - [582] - Quote I'm still not sure if this is real or a joke... Right now I can play the way I like whenever I want without missing anything. This makes EVE special for me, because I don't have to follow stupid weekly award bullshit XP boost crap. If you give me the feeling that I miss something every time I don't do some stupid **** that you think is worth a reward, I don't think this will motivate me to play more but to play less and to let my sub expire. My time is limited, like everyone else's is. You playerbase is not freaking 12year olds that have nothing better to do. If you want it that way, then say good bye to quality eve and hello to Shitgame No. 42542
Nitco Hedion University Amarr Empire 7	Posted - 2016.04.09 11:35:18 - [583] - Quote Yeah this is a terrible idea.
Nitco Hedion University Amarr Empire 7	Posted - 2016.04.09 11:41:05 - [584] - Quote besides, it's a relatively pointless bonus, even for new players (and then you could just give it to new players instead). In order to get 1m extra SP you'd literally need to log in every single day and go off and kill something for over 3 months time. why bother with this change? it's just gonna stress your playerbase out.
Nomistrav Aliastra Gallente Federation 331	Posted - 2016.04.09 11:47:43 - [585] - Quote CPM Aeon Amadi here from Dust 514 side of things. Haven't played Eve with any real seriousness since 2012, so take what I say as a grain of salt, but coming from Dust 514 - which did have dailies - I'll weigh in on what I can. Ultimately, I'm concerned as to why Dailies are necessary in Eve Online. It doesn't seem like the atmosphere would really support dailies without coming off as a gimmick. Does CCP feel that there isn't enough in-game activity going on? If not, surely there are other ways that can warrant greater activity. I feel like Eve's mission system has been severely lacking as of recent and while there are a lot of opportunities for players to engage in the game, the mission system is overly redundant and very boring. Burners are cool, but are very difficult and don't really apply to a greater margin of players. If Dailies are inevitable, then they need to reflect diversity and be rewarding in a way that doesn't slight players that don't perform them. The rewards should be nice to have, but ultimately an afterthought. A player shouldn't feel as though they are going to fall behind if they don't log in and one of the primary benefits of Eve Online was that you still progressed even when you couldn't log in - something I've exploited to the fullest in my time playing Dust 514. Likewise, dailies shouldn't be "free stuff" for players just because they logged in. There should be some commitment involved and it should have variety to appeal to the players' normal in-game day. For example: Allowing the player to select a single daily "mission" to complete out of a list of widely different activities EDIT: -rather than being able to or having to complete them all . Be it mining 20,000m3 worth of ore, killing 10 other players, or what have you. It should empower and encourage them to do what they were already going to do. They shouldn't feel as though they are being "nudged" toward a different playstyle that they don't care for. What this inevitably means is that you're going to have to consider how each and every player lives their in-game lives and account for them in unique, but interesting and enthralling ways. Hope my feedback helps. Third Place Winner Pod and Planet Fiction Contest YC114
Kerodan Alduin EVE University Ivy League 9	Posted - 2016.04.09 11:49:22 - [586] - Quote The real motivation to play Eve comes from interaction with other players, not from menial single-player tasks. This should be rewarded, although I realize this is far more complex to accomplish. Why not provide some incentives for players to do stuff together? This could be scaled for player experience, such as events which can be completed by a group of frigates in hisec, whereas others would require a diverse fleet layout (logistics, ewar, dps, maybe even a transport ship) and happen in low-/nullsec. Or maybe missions, given in highsec, which force players to travel to low-/nullsec together. The rewards could be LP points at a unique faction, which has unique rewards (a bit like the Project Discovery rewards, which you can't get from anywhere else). To ease new players more quickly into the game, specific SP rewards could be given for specific new-player missions. For instance, complete a mission for a Minmatar agent, and get all the skills required for Rifter Mastery (or another Minmatar frigate of your choice) leveled up to Mastery 1, then 2 and 3. That way, players could quickly catch up on core skills for selected ship lines.
Tavion Aksmis EVE University Ivy League 6	Posted - 2016.04.09 12:03:06 - [587] - Quote Gimmick, Feature or Bug?? I see the great idea behind this, You give players a reason to undock, which are a good thing for most players, but defenetly not all, and also you are making the "SP farmers" with 10+ accounts farming SP "work for it" in order to actually make it profitable. However this is a big spit in the face to people who use a lot of their time in the game not undocking or metagameing. I think some of the reasons these play-styles exist in the game is because there are no dailies in EVE making these players not loose out on "progress" by playing this way. I'm of course talking about HR people who do interviews, "IT departments", Spais, Station traders, market analysts, alliance leaders and mega industrialists who sit 95% in Excel and 5% ingame. I feel this is a feature made for what you guys see as the "ideal player" with one account shooting red dots and sometime socialize and do stuff with his alliance. A lot of people find their niche in this game that does not fit into that role at all, me included. By forceing people into that playstyle you are essentially turning EVE Online into "just another space MMO". It will work nicely for getting a few new players in the first months, but it will tire out old and faithful players in the long run. After all, non-solo content in EVE is mostly created by older players. This might even lead to the death of EVE. Also depending on how this is implemented it might be destructive for players that actually undock. If it is "any NPC" does that mean that as long as somone in your fleet kills a NPC you are good? Then its okay because then this just becomes the "obligatory gaterat" that must die when you take out a fleet as an FC. Reducing this feature to a annoying gimmick. If you have to do it solo, get a lasthit or take on specific rats it will drastically cut into an FC's time to take out fleets. From my own perspective in the game: I am professional hauler, I therefore have 4 accounts with 4 characters. This account as my main, a contractor, a webber and a hauler. Where both the contractor and webber are often used for cynos. I do not care about the contractors sp. It will be easy to fulfill this on my main. But how the hell am I supposed to get this progress on my webber and hauler?? As it is right now they end their "hauling day" at some different random station in high sec every day, its not like I can have two ratting ships in every station in high-sec and carrying them with me in my freighter will decimate the ability to take 845k m^3 contracts and still only useing 2 expanded cargoholds. Professional hauling is already a high-risk, medium reward activity in eve. Don't make it worse!!
Nagarythe Tinurandir Einheit X-6 237	Posted - 2016.04.09 12:04:53 - [588] - Quote If ever, daylies should be focused on PVP. Kill someone in Low or Null, finish an entosis timer, something along that line. Sure it can be abused, but atleast the person made the effort of buying frigs from the market and involves an alt on a second account or a friend/corp made (ship/ ISK value still destroyed). Warp in high sec belt press F12 and instapop a NPC frig is ridiculous. High sec has enough people PVEing and this proposal does nothing for increasing the number of killable targets or the economy except increasing inflation.
ZagaBoom Nocturnal Romance Cynosural Field Theory. 5	Posted - 2016.04.09 12:26:22 - [589] - Quote STOP THIS NOW. WORLD OF SPACE SHIPS #2016 You're acting like my ex girlfriend CCP "But he doesn't even call me every day! Awmihgawd! Stop. Clingy fk.
Mayharm EVE University Ivy League 3	Posted - 2016.04.09 12:26:33 - [590] - Quote -1 WoW "improvements" like this devalued the investment of their long-term player base, I left because of them. It works for Blizz "financially" because it massively benefited casual players trying to reach the high-level content. Trying to attract casual players into the Eve and boost them all the way into high-level content doesn't strike me as good long term strategy, and certainly not at the expense of devaluing the existing player base. And in Eve, you really don't need high SP or accelerated SP gains to get into to any of the content. Having said that I get why this idea is attractive, but you'd have to focus it on new players and making those first months of play go faster. Do the same as you did with the skill injectors and have them on diminishing returns until it stops giving out at (for example) 10 million SP. Then, if you insist on still having a daily, use Aurum as others have already suggested. Pros - Keen new players get a great benefit to get them started and the discouraged get something to spur them on. - Low SP Hauler/valet/miniing/cyno/etc alts are easier to create (if this is kept per character) and that's pure win IMO. Cons - Maybe unbalances the character bazaar with lower SP characters? I don't know the bazaar well, not having used it's services, but more low SP for sale could be a benefit I suppose?
Ivan Stoner Old American Syndicate Silent Infinity 11	Posted - 2016.04.09 12:28:38 - [591] - Quote My suggestion for that idea CCP Rise: YOU SHOULD LEAVE CCP and join Blizzard instead. Why you wanna force ppl to do something in a game which based on freedom. This idea is so off-Eve that even the skill extractors sounds good against it. And even that idea was more for the toilet then good.
Honest AppleJack The Lunar Republic 48	Posted - 2016.04.09 12:36:11 - [592] - Quote No. No. No. Don't do it. Dailys for Stuff -> good Dailys for SP -> bad Tyrant Celestia controls the one Sun, Luna controls billions of them - the Night.
Tavion Aksmis EVE University Ivy League 6	Posted - 2016.04.09 12:36:44 - [593] - Quote Nomistrav wrote: For example: Allowing the player to select a single daily "mission" to complete out of a list of widely different activities EDIT: -rather than being able to or having to complete them all . Be it mining 20,000m3 worth of ore, killing 10 other players, or what have you. It should empower and encourage them to do what they were already going to do. They shouldn't feel as though they are being "nudged" toward a different playstyle that they don't care for. What this inevitably means is that you're going to have to consider how each and every player lives their in-game lives and account for them in unique, but interesting and enthralling ways. Hope my feedback helps. I actually like this idea. Here is how I would like to see it implemented: You get all these different possibilities to make "the daily grind" and they all count up until one is finished and then it is done. Hence, you don't have to think about them while you play, they will just fulfill naturally. You should include (numbers are just a wiff in the air): - write 50 comments in chat (Jita scammers and HR/Diplomat people will be happy) - update 15 market orders (anyone who engages in trade) - Do 15 jumps through gates or jumping once with a jumpdrive (webbing and cyno alts, personal and professional haulers and capital/JF pilots) - Some industry/PI things (sorry, can't think of a good option here given that there are so many different types of industry) - Kill a rat. - Getting on a killmail, suicide gank included. (Logi needs to put on their whoring drones) - mining 10,000 m^3 ore
Conjaq The Dark Space Initiative Scary Wormhole People 37	Posted - 2016.04.09 12:42:40 - [594] - Quote I'm sure some would argue, that it will now become a necessity to complete these "dailies"... That would of course be pure nonsens. It's not obligatory to do these missions and you're not in a competition against anyone to be "first" or "best".... It's simply a boost for those that want to use the time. That being said i have a few concerns. 1. I'm guessing these missions ect... ect.. (whatever they're called) will be located in high-sec. which is bad for: * Wh'ers * low-sec guys * 0.0 guys. + Alot more that is not really moving around in high-sec..... All of these are getting shafted pretty bad, because it forces them to move to places they really don't/can't want to be in.... Another thing i simply do not get, is why you're not using your ressources on improving the pve aspect of the game... I get that tools has to be developed, but this has been in the works for so long?. Instead you're introducing new stuff like this, to make people log on. the PVE side of eve has severely fallen behind, the mission system is badly in need of a freshup. I think your time and ressources would be put to much better use, if you actually improved some of the things that needs fixing the most, not put new things into the game that is not really needed.
Elvin-Andreas Aldent Brand Newbros Test Alliance Please Ignore 2	Posted - 2016.04.09 13:10:34 - [595] - Quote I don't write on the forums, I usually just lurk around but I can't with this one. I wasn't too much of a fan of the skill injectors in the beginning, but I didn't mind them that much either because in the end; The skills you get from them were trained by others, and then extracted. In fact, if you are over a certain amount of SP you don't get the full amount from the injectors which leads to some SP being lost to the void. This new thing brings in SP that wasn't trained by anyone, but just instead gets rewarded out of thin air. We've had those occasions before where that has been the case. E.g. when servers have been down due to issues, preventing people to play. But to have them as rewards for simply just killing NPCs every 22 hours? It feels wrong, and I honestly don't like it. I guess you could say that this makes up for the SP lost with the skill injectors, but I just don't like the idea of SP being "quest rewards". Again, the extractors/injectors are completely player driven, they don't appear on the market without someone having extracted already trained SP and placed them on there. This is just free SP waiting for someone to grab it. I might just be someone who does not like change, but this is my opinion on it. I wouldn't want this in the game. If they have to implement something like this then they can do it with the '*opportunities*' system already in-game, to encourage people to fulfill them and explore. That way new players would still get a boost to SP, but only for those opportunities and once they've done them, that's it. Again, my opinions on the matter. If I have misunderstood this in some way then feel free to correct me, just make sure to be nice about. Also, English is not my primary language, so if there are any grammar mistakes etc. then I'm sorry.
Syrias Bizniz Zebra Corp Goonswarm Federation 451	Posted - 2016.04.09 13:11:45 - [596] - Quote Mister Ripley wrote: I'm still not sure if this is real or a joke... Right now I can play the way I like whenever I want without missing anything. This makes EVE special for me, because I don't have to follow stupid weekly award bullshit XP boost crap. If you give me the feeling that I miss something every time I don't do some stupid ** that you think is worth a reward, I don't think this will motivate me to play more but to play less and to let my sub expire. My time is limited, like everyone else's is. You playerbase is not freaking 12year olds that have nothing better to do. If you want it that way, then say good bye to quality eve and hello to Shitgame No. 42542 You have that already. Every 20 minutes you are not logged in, you miss out dank ISK ticks. Every dank ISK tick you miss out is one further step you have to make for that juicy Skill Injectors. Man the up, you're getting offered FREE BONUS that has literally ZERO effort attached and you are *** complaining, holy tittyfucking christ. IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT DON'T DO IT, IT'S LIKE PLANETARY INTERACTION. And IF you like it, it's 8m FREE ISK per day and character, and after 50 days you can *** sell the SP, or throw them on one of your alts, or donate them to some newbies you're trying to help out. But no, CCP adds free stuff, everyone rages and loses their goddamn *** mind. Get ****.
Indahmawar Fazmarai 5025	Posted - 2016.04.09 13:14:24 - [597] - Quote I want 10,000 free SP each day just for playing. I wish CCP hadn't put themselves in a place where this makes sense to them. I hope this is not shot down and CCP starts giving love to PvE. But frankly, I don't care at this moment.
Ruby Gnollo 4	Posted - 2016.04.09 13:26:29 - [598] - Quote baltec1 wrote: Newplayer 1 is disadvantaged to the tune of 50k SP every week they play. This is good how? Killing a NPC is a 5mn/day/toon task. Even people working at Goldman Sachs spend more than one hour a day on the internet minding their own business. That's twelve times what you need for that.
X4m AirGuard LowSechnaya Sholupen 128	Posted - 2016.04.09 13:27:20 - [599] - Quote NO !!! JUST NO !!!! look this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWtvrPTbQ_c
Tomika Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 18	Posted - 2016.04.09 13:38:33 - [600] - Quote Elvin-Andreas Aldent wrote: This new thing brings in SP that wasn't trained by anyone, but just instead gets rewarded out of thin air. The SP you already gain is rewarded out of thin air. When I log back on my character after not playing it for a week, it has more SP than when I logged off. Where does it come from?
Rthulhu Voynich Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 1	Posted - 2016.04.09 13:42:27 - [601] - Quote I know I should explain it, but I am so shocked, I only can say: Please no SP for Daily Things!!!! Please!
Valence Benedetto South of Heaven Ltd Blades of Grass 3	Posted - 2016.04.09 13:42:49 - [602] - Quote As a general concept, I like rewarding pilots with skill points. But I am confused as to why you are moving so slowly (and in a seemingly strange direction) with the Opportunities system. Recall that you created it in the first place to address EVE's (still pretty terrible) new player experience. The system failed to do that because (a) it doesn't actually provide much instruction and (b) it provides no meaningful reward. So most experienced EVE players will tell their friends to do the old tutorial agent missions instead. EVE's new player experience remains a critical deficit in the game. So why are you not focusing on improving the Opp system in a way that addresses that? And why do we seem to move at such a glacial pace with this system? Since its introduction it has received no iteration until now. And even now, it's one tiny baby step (a single daily???) as opposed to released at least a small suite of options. To make the analogy, I have never seen Blizzard release a new daily quest hub with only a single NPC and a single quest. It's just strange. Sorry to sound negative. I do heart you guys. But the continued failure to deliver a new player experience that is tolerable / survivable to the average mmo gamer is disheartening to those of us who want to see more people try the game!
Inslander Wessette Killers of Paranoid Souls Imminent Threat 27	Posted - 2016.04.09 13:43:47 - [603] - Quote I am against this idea . Just because its looking more like world of tanks or any other MMO . Either you buy Skill points or you grid it out and get ahead of all the dudes who have been training for years to get JDC 5 or carrier 5 . Yes this will give u a temporary boost to the game and then it will fall sharply !!!... after everyone has the skills they need to do stuff .
Daichi Yamato Xero Security and Technologies 3185	Posted - 2016.04.09 13:48:07 - [604] - Quote Syrias Bizniz wrote: Mister Ripley wrote: I'm still not sure if this is real or a joke... Right now I can play the way I like whenever I want without missing anything. This makes EVE special for me, because I don't have to follow stupid weekly award bullshit XP boost crap. If you give me the feeling that I miss something every time I don't do some stupid ** that you think is worth a reward, I don't think this will motivate me to play more but to play less and to let my sub expire. My time is limited, like everyone else's is. You playerbase is not freaking 12year olds that have nothing better to do. If you want it that way, then say good bye to quality eve and hello to Shitgame No. 42542 You have that already. Every 20 minutes you are not logged in, you miss out dank ISK ticks. Every dank ISK tick you miss out is one further step you have to make for that juicy Skill Injectors. Man the up, you're getting offered FREE BONUS that has literally ZERO effort attached and you are *** complaining, holy tittyfucking christ. IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT DON'T DO IT, IT'S LIKE PLANETARY INTERACTION. And IF you like it, it's 8m FREE ISK per day and character, and after 50 days you can *** sell the SP, or throw them on one of your alts, or donate them to some newbies you're trying to help out. But no, CCP adds free stuff, everyone rages and loses their goddamn *** mind. Get ****. Free bonuses are not always a good thing and the choice of reward encourages empty alts and a load of logging on and off. If it was isk, it wouldnt be so bad because you'd make more isk with a char than you would trying to do 'dailies'. New player only (though i prefer just faster training) or change the reward to isk or lp. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided" Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Tavion Aksmis EVE University Ivy League 6	Posted - 2016.04.09 14:01:10 - [605] - Quote Syrias Bizniz wrote: Mister Ripley wrote: I'm still not sure if this is real or a joke... Right now I can play the way I like whenever I want without missing anything. This makes EVE special for me, because I don't have to follow stupid weekly award bullshit XP boost crap. If you give me the feeling that I miss something every time I don't do some stupid ** that you think is worth a reward, I don't think this will motivate me to play more but to play less and to let my sub expire. My time is limited, like everyone else's is. You playerbase is not freaking 12year olds that have nothing better to do. If you want it that way, then say good bye to quality eve and hello to Shitgame No. 42542 You have that already. Every 20 minutes you are not logged in, you miss out dank ISK ticks. Every dank ISK tick you miss out is one further step you have to make for that juicy Skill Injectors. Man the up, you're getting offered FREE BONUS that has literally ZERO effort attached and you are *** complaining, holy tittyfucking christ. IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT DON'T DO IT, IT'S LIKE PLANETARY INTERACTION. And IF you like it, it's 8m FREE ISK per day and character, and after 50 days you can *** sell the SP, or throw them on one of your alts, or donate them to some newbies you're trying to help out. But no, CCP adds free stuff, everyone rages and loses their goddamn *** mind. Get ****. Free bonuses is the killer of hardcore MMO's. I stopped playing WoW after vanilla because there where no longer need to atune for raids or actually do a dangerous "move OP" to the dungeon, effectively killing world PvP (TBC introduced flying mounts and more portals). It made the game easy and extremely mundane, making me and other players who likes complex games completely loose the interest in the game as it takes away a lot of the skill, planning of logistics and min/max out of the game replacing it with grind. Honestly I was kinda done with MMO gameing overall as I though brutally hard ones with complex mechanics where all dead and all where just a bunch of "WoW-clones" until I found EVE almost two years ago.
Undercover Greg Nothing on Dscan 0	Posted - 2016.04.09 14:02:07 - [606] - Quote I can see this being a good addition to the game, on a couple of conditions. -The SP or other reward should be small enough that it doesn't feel mandatory to log in every day. It should be a choice, not a compulsion. For me 10K/day max seems about fine, but this number might be different for others. -There should be a limit on the number of daily opportunities a player can complete in a day and receive a reward. a player should not feel like they need to log on every day and complete 10 different tasks, ranging from PvP to Mining. I suggest a limit of one per day. -the majority of players shouldn't have to go out of their way and alter their normal play-style to complete the tasks. There should be enough daily opportunities that any playstyle can benefit from this. there should be rewards for PvE, PvP Mining, market trading, PI, Manufacturing and any other significant action really other than ship spinning. It should feel more like a login-reward than a PvE reward. Also, I feel these all need to be added at project launch, or players will feel like CCP is trying to restrict or control their playstyle, which is very against the sandbox. Essentially, the above means that a player's gameplay should see as little disruption as possible from this system, ideally none at all. The consequence of of adding a feature like this poorly would cause players to feel like CCP is telling them how to play the game, where to go, what to do, and it would drastically alter the sandbox mentality. Also, to those complaining that daily missions makes the game like a grind-able MMO, I would argue that skill injectors are much more so. You can only get the 10kSP once per day, but in just a couple hours of, say, incursions you could buy a skill injector. that IS grinding, and I personally have no problem with it. I don't feel compelled to buy skill injectors, but I like that the choice is there.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 27304	Posted - 2016.04.09 14:13:15 - [607] - Quote Syrias Bizniz wrote: IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT DON'T DO IT, IT'S LIKE PLANETARY INTERACTION. No. What you get from planetary interaction can be had a multitude of other ways. If you don't like it, you can choose not to do it because there are so many other ways of reaching the same goal. You have the option to pick a different route to get the same outcome, and arguably, PI is one of the worst ways of getting there in terms of time investment. SP cannot be had any any other way, and the bonus SP is tied to one very specific and very boring activity for an absolutely staggering payoff. There is no option, because there is only one route to a outcome, and the outcome is galactically out of proportion to the activity. Quote: But no, CCP adds free stuff, everyone rages and loses their goddamn ******* mind. It's only free if your time GÇö in and out of game GÇö is literally worthless.
Josef Kennet Zima Corp Infinity Space. 23	Posted - 2016.04.09 14:19:49 - [608] - Quote Daily opportunities is not cool. Instead make it weekly opportunities, with "to do" list divided by categories (PvP, PvE, Trade, Manufacturing etc) It should look somthing like: PvP: 1) Kill player frigate 2) Kill player cruiser 3) Kill ... PvE: 1) Kill npc frigate 2) Kill npc ... 3) Complete lvl 4 mission 4) ... Trade: 1) Place buy order 2) Place sell order 3) Sell item with total value more than 10kk 4) ... In the end of the week check if you complete more than 70% of this list you get your reward, in addition if you complete all tasks from the category (e.g. everything from PvP) you get specific reward for this category (There is a lot of room here for rewards starting from random BPC for full manufacturing to some specific bonuses for next week like decrease of manufacturing time, increase in bounty payout for PvE, decrease in market taxes for trade etc) That system should work for account wich will remove unnecessary overhead for character switching and weekly basis will make it acceptable for players who dont log in every day. Also all rewards should be tradable in some form.
Evan Giants Plundering Penguins Solyaris Chtonium 17	Posted - 2016.04.09 14:26:08 - [609] - Quote Bad idea. Perhaps make it SP limited up to 5m SP, then you don't get anymore free SP. Give new players reasons to login daily and learn more about eve instead of getting bored by training queue and quit before they explore more of eve.
Cajun Waffles Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde 13	Posted - 2016.04.09 14:30:39 - [610] - Quote What makes reading through these forums sometimes feel irrelevant is the possibility of of 5 players - each with five accounts complaining on 75 separate toons to make their point.
Moondo The Moomins The Unthinkables 2	Posted - 2016.04.09 14:33:22 - [611] - Quote +1
Rodrick Anthar Duckling System Duckling Union 1	Posted - 2016.04.09 14:40:54 - [612] - Quote Please, don't do this. I'd like to see online numbers going up, but not at the cost of things that make EVE the special game of me.
Aleksi Aksan Nothing on Dscan 7	Posted - 2016.04.09 14:41:06 - [613] - Quote So a quick version of my thoughts as this is something that rather bothers me. SP rewards on the opportunities system. Something much suggested as a compromise. 100% an awesome idea and I think will help the NPE. SP for dailies. No one should try to deny dailies are a psychological tool to get people online, they are not a free bonus to players. I have always loved EVE because it brought me back when I wanted to play, brought me back because something drew me back. And I have had great issue with games with dailies and the reward/punishment system they set up with the drain on my time and impact on my mental state. I find dailies will push people away as much as draw them in and especially within the NPE having the concept of falling behind if you aren't playing hammered in isn't a good one. I think if this is something for the NPE there are better ways to do it or target it there. If this is for players as a whole it's a bad idea, it will increase burn out and will lose you player who already worry that EVE is losing so much of what made it special. I have reason to play EVE that the community as a whole has built and that I build for myself. Would I log in daily if I was promised SP for it. Likely especially as I put a lot into earning as many SP as possible. Would I enjoy it, no. And here is the genuine question, who will enjoy this change? Not who would benefit, as we know inevitably that will many be a small group gaming the system. Who do you want to enjoy this change and who do you want to benefit from it? With those in mind and the connotations and negative effects on your player base that come with an idea like this, can you do something better? Is this even worth doing? I like to think something can come out of this idea to support the NPE but I don't like this idea one bit as an older player.
Nicen Jehr The Scope Gallente Federation 421	Posted - 2016.04.09 14:48:51 - [614] - Quote do it like dust, offer multiple missions per day with small random rewards including SP, ISK, LP, loot if I was a new player i'd be thrilled to see an ingame reward of a frigate for killing 3 lowsec rats Little Things to improve GëíGïüGëí-á\| My Little Things posts
Gaming God Gaming God is groot 68	Posted - 2016.04.09 14:59:05 - [615] - Quote Demica Diaz wrote: Am I the only one who found out about this and checked date TWICE to see if this is aprils fools? ... seriouslly... what the... ... I give up... Can i have your stuff when you give up ?
unimatrix0030 Viperfleet Inc. Official Winners Of Takeshi's Castle 234	Posted - 2016.04.09 15:01:43 - [616] - Quote I don't think i would like the grind resulting this change. But if you guys do this change i sudjest one little change to it. Make it killing an npc or being on a killmail. After all the idea is to get people to be out in space. If you add this condition people who many hunt other capsuleers don't need to go looking for a npc's each day if they had a pvp engagement. This would lessen the "grind" for pvp players. No local in null sec would fix everything!
Rain6639 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3850	Posted - 2016.04.09 15:12:05 - [617] - Quote confirming that you will see 200 + Million SP characters undocking to shoot rats. as someone who has accepted the grind of ratting for ADM I feel rewarded for that effort.
Mayharm EVE University Ivy League 3	Posted - 2016.04.09 15:12:09 - [618] - Quote TL;DR Give journal entries to expedition sites for doing player corp dailies. Credit to my GF (who is an eve carebear) for a) not liking this idea either and b) coming up with the perfect way to resolve this. Create a new corporation mechanism. Brand new Eve players start in school corporations (which you can't rejoin when you leave?). Those school corporations offer a daily or choice of dailies that reward the 10k SP, with diminishing returns the more SP you have. Once you leave that corp, even for another npc corp you don't get the SP reward again. Either no dailies or an Aurum reward for npc corps, BUT for player corps you have a similar, configurable and automated way to reward the players for doing a daily activity for that corp. Some examples that should work within existing game mechanics: - Drop x ore/BPC from loyalty store/deadspace item/etc into corp hangar and get a fitted ship/isk/expensive skillbook contracted to you. I'd suggest looking at the gambling sites to get an idea of what rewards people will play for. With multiple dailes on offer you could even use this for an ad-hoc production chain. -Kill incursion mothership. With the incursion effects in system corps might want it it closed so they can get back to business as usual (could modify them to increase this desire) and could setup counter-content to the incursion runners who want them to stay open longer. -Kill player x. incentive to take on the gankers/Wts/etc. Metagaming is a little harder, I don't think it could be automated, but providing bookmarks to strategic/hidden enemy locations perhaps? Yes you can do all of this already within the contract/bounty system, so it doesn't provide new content as is, however if CCP starts with implementing school corps SP rewards, see how that works. Then later on adds the npc corp Aurum rewards, we'll have a better idea of what works and what doesn't and how to implement it for player corps. At that point CCP may be able to inject some kind of minor reward into the system. Yes, we'd need to be careful to avoid exploitation, but for example you could offer a free expedition (as if you had gotten an escalation in anomaly/signature) or an equivalent in your journal for completing a player corp daily. You could even range the difficulty based on which system the player corp daily was completed and on the type of daily. Delivering ore gets you small rare ore site. Handing in a deadspace loot gets you a combat site and so on. As you could only get them once per day they are not over-powered and at the same time doesn't prevent you doing more dailies if you want to help your corp. Most importantly of all, it encourages player created content. EDIT: You could also have an option to receive an expedition that requires multiple people as per an incursion VG, maybe as weekly?
octopused The Summer of George 1	Posted - 2016.04.09 15:19:40 - [619] - Quote This sounds very bad. Please don't do it.
Vic Jefferson Stimulus Rote Kapelle 987	Posted - 2016.04.09 15:23:34 - [620] - Quote The daily nature is what is terrible about this entire enterprise. This discussion would be entirely different if it was a weekly or bi weekly thing. The next issue is that the current proposed daily doesn't really foster player-player interaction so much. Getting people in corps, up to no good, moving around the map, etc, is a far more effective nudge for content rather than stuff that is just too easy to do alone then log off after doing a 'chore'. Adding more of these is just going to eat up players' time, and actually detract from content generation - they may be motivated to do the daliles to not fall behind, but that doesn't mean they are having fun with each log in. Same sort of thing where people would rather sit in station with +5s because progression, rather than undock and actually, you know, play EvE. Except now it's gonna be, hey, 'I have to do dalies, I cant go roam', rather than, 'hey, I can't roam null Im in +5s.' You aren't giving people opportunities. You are giving them mandatory work, so you shouldn't expect them to like it. I positively hate even the idea of having achievements in a sandbox, as it is not really a sandbox when you have put goal posts in it. However, even a system where you can gradually collect achievements and get rewards is better than the grind that this will turn the game into. This fundamentally breaks parts of EvE, and tips the game one step closer to the sea of hyper-mediocrity and homogeneity that is the rest of the MMO world. There are other, better, ways of getting people out in space. This is a bad change. I don't say bad idea because the perception here is that you already are going to do this change no matter what, you are just looking for positive feedback or things you didn't think about, rather than any sort of, this is a hideous abomination to what EvE is, don't do it, sort of feedback. Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM XI
Harkin Issier Alcoholocaust. Test Alliance Please Ignore 84	Posted - 2016.04.09 15:30:36 - [621] - Quote Michael Ignis Archangel wrote: Second thought: what if instead of SP, you decreased the remap cooldown by 12 or 24 hours? It would make more sense that people who fly their spaceships and get some neurons firing have more plastic minds. I'm just flat-out assuming that shooting a rat will in no way be the only way to earn this. I could see this. But make it a weekly with bigger payout rather than a daily. **** dailies.
Roro Zoro The Scope Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2016.04.09 15:31:16 - [622] - Quote As a 2m SP player i welcome this addition. Gathering SP to do (more) fun stuff takes a lot of time, like now i am training to T2 frigates for exploration and i need a whole month for all the skills, a little bump/boost is very welcome and gives the incentive to login every day. I guess that this addition is to boost the concurrent users and breath a bit more life into the game, i think its a good way but yeah dont make this world of warcraft.Tthese daily oportunities should be very limited, dont make the players feel that they HAVE TO do a bunch of dailies, its exausting. But killing a simple rat, just to make people login is very easy and a good approach. I understand that this is a little beyond the nature of the game for many people but skill extractors were the same, and those are limited to rich players. We "poor" players would very much like this daily opportunity, it takes quite long to learn some "basic skills" but maybe limiting to low sp character or introducing diminishing returns on the reward for high SP players will solve the problem.
Fermin Mascagranzas Uranus Intruders Test Alliance Please Ignore 26	Posted - 2016.04.09 15:34:07 - [623] - Quote Daily quests? Yea why not. And we could also put a system that match you automatically with other pilots to make a DED and hell, even teleport you there, and we could have instanced PVP in special ships that really don-¦t broke, and we could create PVE servers. Wait, why stop there? We can get rid of spaceshit and wear armor, and staves, and swords, and a DAMMNED ORCHARD in wich farm daily what we need for our strongest potions. And then we drink bleach and die.
Ruby Gnollo 4	Posted - 2016.04.09 15:40:36 - [624] - Quote Nicen Jehr wrote: do it like dust, offer multiple missions per day with small random rewards including SP, ISK, LP, loot if I was a new player i'd be thrilled to see an ingame reward of a frigate for killing 3 lowsec rats I'd really love that, since it'll be then end of NS big powers, gate camps and other quite stupid activities, and might even make playing Eve attractive to newcomers.
Vic Jefferson Stimulus Rote Kapelle 987	Posted - 2016.04.09 15:42:43 - [625] - Quote Roro Zoro wrote: As a 2m SP player i welcome this addition. We were all low sp pilots at one point. I feel you on that. However, given everything we know at this point about keeping new players interested until they get to that magic SP number where they can fly enough of the things they want to, and have all the enabling support skills, the problem should be addressed in other ways. Namely, I can't help but see you are in an NPC corp. If you like exploration, why haven't you checked out Signal Cartel, etc? Having reasons to log in, like buddies and things to do together, is not only a better reason to log in, it's a far more effective at getting content rolling. It's a proven fact that joining a corp, getting ganked, wardecced, etc, essentially having New Eden (in any of its many, many incarnations) say Hi to you is the most effective way to get you to want to say Hi back. If they rewarded new players with SP for being in a player run corp, even though it would be gamed and abused by some, ineffective for others, it would actually push new blood to interact with the game, whereas this, so far, is just an annoyance. Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM XI
Terianna Eri Legion's Knights Of The Round Intrepid Crossing 4	Posted - 2016.04.09 15:44:04 - [626] - Quote This seems very much not in the spirit of EVE. If this is implemented I think it should only apply to characters below, say, 5 million or 10 million SP. 10,000 SP is about 4 hours of training (~2,500 sp/hr), which is a 16% increase in skill training per day - that's a huge amount! It's such a huge amount that I think people will feel obligated to do it, and therefore resent it. That said, I like - in principle - the idea of getting more people to undock. The problem with this idea though is that it takes hardly any time to kill one rat - undock, warp to belt, kill frigate, dock is maybe 5 minutes total? - that it's unlikely to drive much interaction with hostiles. And making it per character is, I think, pretty scary. I know technically it's not a 'requirement' but with such a huge payoff for such a small investment, I know if I had like... 10 characters training, I'd be trying to do this every day. So that's 5 minutes each per 10 characters - about an hour of (tedious) work for me and with none of those excursions being likely to drive inter-player content. It reminds me of the old learning skills where if you DID train them first, you had a huge advantage over time, but the act of slogging through those skills was such a pain that it drove away a lot of people. I note that CCP wisely eventually removed these. I don't like the idea of "SP reward for completing content" in general, but here's how I'd change it: 1) Give people more flexibility in when and how they complete the activities - not "do X every day and Y happens" or even "do X every week and Y happens." Rather, I think something like "Do X at least 7/30/100/whatever times a month and Y happens at the end of the month". This removes the "do this EVERY DAY or fall behind" idea to which I think a lot of people are averse. 3) Limit the amount of SP a character can gain from this every month - say... to 5 times or something. This is a different way of addressing the "do this every day or fall behind" issue. 3) Cap it to characters at 5 million or 10 million SP. That's all I've got. As a final thought EVE has been, from the beginning, a long-term game where many people don't need to log in to progress. This is reflected in the long skills, the ability to set up market orders and contracts, etc.. Daily activity rewards - especially for something as huge as SP and in such a magnitude - seem to violate that idea.
Ria Nieyli 43228	Posted - 2016.04.09 15:44:41 - [627] - Quote How could the CSM let this happen to us? "slang" is shortened language for "shortened language"
Tyrant Scorn 205	Posted - 2016.04.09 15:48:21 - [628] - Quote I don't see the problem, really... If you don't shoot NPC's, you just don't get the tiny bonus, other then that, nothing is going to change for you. Ya'll are screaming like something is being taken away from you. The Tyrant King YouTube \| Twitter \| Twitch
Anataine Deva University of Caille Gallente Federation 6	Posted - 2016.04.09 15:58:01 - [629] - Quote The current skill point system rewards player with long term subscription. Bad for people who play every week an other game, good for people who stick with Eve. SPs as reward for grinding is a slap in the face to those, who paid and supported this game for years. It's a slap in the face to those who gave you CCP employees the opportunity to work on this special game. As many times mentioned before, if you want people to spend more time in-game, make it more interesting with content not with bribing. I'm really surprised that a game developer with hundreds of employees, can't come up with better ideas. Maybe that's the real problem. Give The BIG Lottery a try!
Rivr Luzade Kenshin. DARKNESS. 2427	Posted - 2016.04.09 15:58:05 - [630] - Quote Tyrant Scorn wrote: I don't see the problem, really... If you don't shoot NPC's, you just don't get the tiny bonus, other then that, nothing is going to change for you. Ya'll are screaming like something is being taken away from you. Sure thing. Next step in the daily tasks: Accept a mission in your station/citadel to be allowed to repair your ship. Do a market task to receive 1M ISK. Buy a SKIN to be able to train a skill for another month. Talk to a player in order to be able to buy something on the market. Get your ship destroyed in order to be able to buy something in the market. Extract some skills to be allowed to engage in PVP. But who am I talking to? The great unwashed won't see the problem, even after CCP literally broke their own assertion from just weeks ago. UI Improvement Collective My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Drammie Askold The Senate and People of Rome Kids With Guns Alliance 23	Posted - 2016.04.09 16:14:41 - [631] - Quote CCP Rise, thank you for reading this thread, as I'm sure you will, (most of it anyway - skim over the rants). Eve players are a pretty intelligent bunch so we both know what is going on here. This is a cheap and tacky way of bribing players to get a quick boost to the log-in numbers. I am not, by the way, blaming you for this idea which WILL of course be implemented as it comes from WAY above your pay-grade. You just got given the job of fronting it to the player-base. I strongly believe that this very bad idea originates from a recent hire who is interested in EVE and CCP only as a way-point on their career path to Obscenely Rich Early Retiree. Increasing the log-in numbers, which will happen in the short term, will make a nice entry on the CV of such a person. For those of us who love Eve, and those who make their living from it, the prognosis isn't quite so rosy. This is the thin end of a VERY thick wedge which I do hope can be prevented from going in too far. Where do CSM XI candidates stand on the Velociraptor Issue?
Lan Wang Knights of the Posing Meat FETID 2636	Posted - 2016.04.09 16:15:31 - [632] - Quote this idea was thought up at 4:55pm on a friday evening just before everyone was leaving for the pub FETID now recruiting pvp pilots & corporations \| lowsec pvp & piracy - Join FETID Loyalist to Angel Cartel & Serpentis
Roro Zoro The Scope Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2016.04.09 16:18:32 - [633] - Quote Vic Jefferson wrote: Roro Zoro wrote: As a 2m SP player i welcome this addition. We were all low sp pilots at one point. I feel you on that. However, given everything we know at this point about keeping new players interested until they get to that magic SP number where they can fly enough of the things they want to, and have all the enabling support skills, the problem should be addressed in other ways. Namely, I can't help but see you are in an NPC corp. If you like exploration, why haven't you checked out Signal Cartel, etc? Having reasons to log in, like buddies and things to do together, is not only a better reason to log in, it's a far more effective at getting content rolling. It's a proven fact that joining a corp, getting ganked, wardecced, etc, essentially having New Eden (in any of its many, many incarnations) say Hi to you is the most effective way to get you to want to say Hi back. If they rewarded new players with SP for being in a player run corp, even though it would be gamed and abused by some, ineffective for others, it would actually push new blood to interact with the game, whereas this, so far, is just an annoyance. Yep, you are right, i am only back to the game for a week after a long time and i am waiting just a bit to find a good corp. Being in a player run corp definitely makes the game A LOT more fun. I remember when i started the game i joined a corp and after a couple days they got wardecced. It was a bit scary for a fresh player like me but it was also exciting. Awarding players with SP to join player run corps is a really good idea and probably a better alternative, but we all know that the reason they do the Daily op is the same as every other game is doing it, bump the numbers ;p The games population is decreasing over time and they have to act quickly to fix it, it may be far from a problematic number but you have to adress these issues very very early.
Lugh Crow-Slave 1836	Posted - 2016.04.09 16:42:09 - [634] - Quote WoW I remember when having a life meant I wasn't at to much of a disadvantage I'm already uncomfortable worth this forest purposed idea to be implemented in dread to think what other menial task I will need to do to stay competetive. What happened to the game where I was given tools and expected to make something worth them. Given little to no guidance or push inv any particular direction :/ Are things really that bad at ccp that you need to implement something like this to get numbers up? Citadel worm hole tax
ACESsiggy Pandemic Horde Inc. 47	Posted - 2016.04.09 17:00:51 - [635] - Quote Pretty interesting stuff. +1 I approve. GÇ£The open-minded see the truth in different things: the narrow-minded see only the differences.GÇ¥
Baygun EVE University Ivy League 11	Posted - 2016.04.09 17:01:08 - [636] - Quote (+) SP booster is GOOD (as long as we have to accumulate massive amounts to be effective and not for fun) (+) that will undermine the price of skill injectors heavily. as well as price for empty syringes will skyrocket. perhaps that will balance a bit use of skill injectors (-) Concept of SP is outdated and obsolete legacy mechanic. I'd scrap it altogether, having that recently announced competitive projects does not have "character leveling" (-) Dailies are bad (-) this will not affect all players - only ratters will see the bonus - some players consider it a mortal sin to undock, others to shoot anything than carebares. From my modest experience in the game i noticed that people log-in and even resub when there is content like a great war or many people to scam in Jita. I believe devs know best how to produce such results with minimal efforts :)
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 17626	Posted - 2016.04.09 17:04:35 - [637] - Quote Roro Zoro wrote: As a 2m SP player i welcome this addition. Gathering SP to do (more) fun stuff takes a lot of time, like now i am training to T2 frigates for exploration and i need a whole month for all the skills, a little bump/boost is very welcome and gives the incentive to login every day. I guess that this addition is to boost the concurrent users and breath a bit more life into the game, i think its a good way but yeah dont make this world of warcraft.Tthese daily oportunities should be very limited, dont make the players feel that they HAVE TO do a bunch of dailies, its exausting. But killing a simple rat, just to make people login is very easy and a good approach. I understand that this is a little beyond the nature of the game for many people but skill extractors were the same, and those are limited to rich players. We "poor" players would very much like this daily opportunity, it takes quite long to learn some "basic skills" but maybe limiting to low sp character or introducing diminishing returns on the reward for high SP players will solve the problem. I understand that you're motivated to "catch up" more quickly, but please give some thought as to whether this is the best mechanism to facilitate this. "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
Aliana Heartborne Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 13	Posted - 2016.04.09 17:13:38 - [638] - Quote Hooray for padding log in numbers! (...) How about actually making stuff fun to do so people will log in more often naturally? Like having missions not be static and not the exact same thing over and over again?
Midnight Hope Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 198	Posted - 2016.04.09 17:14:33 - [639] - Quote Tyrant Scorn wrote: I don't see the problem, really... If you don't shoot NPC's, you just don't get the tiny bonus, other then that, nothing is going to change for you. Ya'll are screaming like something is being taken away from you. This is just the beggining. This is the start of the slippery slope where we end up with actual XP for playing (ala WOW) not for subscribing. Also, this is the easy crappy way out. Because if the purpose is to have more people log in and play, then why not make the game actually interesting and engaging? Like adding more features? Comet mining? Proper T3 frigates? (not the easy way out of the t3 destroyers).
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 17626	Posted - 2016.04.09 17:15:42 - [640] - Quote Midnight Hope wrote: Because if the purpose is to have more people log in and play, then why not make the game actually interesting and engaging? RING A DING EFFING DING "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
Quesa Burning Napalm Northern Coalition. 96	Posted - 2016.04.09 17:18:47 - [641] - Quote I think this is a really horrible idea in a fairly scary trend of recent changes. I was late to the party when discussing the skill injectors, of which I think is a horrible idea and antithetical to what the game truly is and purports to be. A daily reward that in any way rewards players with SP, or even an SP training buff, should not be implemented. SP is not a resource that should be rewarded to players except in times of server instability. This really seems like a way to improve daily numbers in a game where logging in daily isn't, and shouldn't, be a necessity.
Big Lynx 5668	Posted - 2016.04.09 17:27:34 - [642] - Quote Ria Nieyli wrote: How could the CSM let this happen to us? Cause CSM is useless like a peen on the pope.
Lugh Crow-Slave 1836	Posted - 2016.04.09 17:30:29 - [643] - Quote What next will I gain sp in mining skills every strip miner cycle? Citadel worm hole tax
Lugh Crow-Slave 1836	Posted - 2016.04.09 17:32:14 - [644] - Quote Big Lynx wrote: Ria Nieyli wrote: How could the CSM let this happen to us? Cause CSM is useless like a peen on the pope. They are just to make us feel better nothing more than a PR stunt Or sucks to because a lot of them work really hard to try and make the game better Citadel worm hole tax
NinjaTurtle Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 107	Posted - 2016.04.09 17:33:13 - [645] - Quote terrible idea. just terrible. kids, you're all just ***** awful. there's a huge difference between promoting meaningful gameplay and promoting brief logons that have no actual substance or content for the rest of EVE. This isn't ***** Clash of Clans, you shouldn't be rewarded 8 mil isk (yeah cause you can put a price tag on SP now thx CCP) for logging in and tapping the screen twice. i don't often say this but someone needs to ask nicely if you'll remove your heads from your respective asses TIA
Syrias Bizniz Zebra Corp Goonswarm Federation 451	Posted - 2016.04.09 17:39:03 - [646] - Quote Tavion Aksmis wrote: Syrias Bizniz wrote: Mister Ripley wrote: I'm still not sure if this is real or a joke... Right now I can play the way I like whenever I want without missing anything. This makes EVE special for me, because I don't have to follow stupid weekly award bullshit XP boost crap. If you give me the feeling that I miss something every time I don't do some stupid ** that you think is worth a reward, I don't think this will motivate me to play more but to play less and to let my sub expire. My time is limited, like everyone else's is. You playerbase is not freaking 12year olds that have nothing better to do. If you want it that way, then say good bye to quality eve and hello to Shitgame No. 42542 You have that already. Every 20 minutes you are not logged in, you miss out dank ISK ticks. Every dank ISK tick you miss out is one further step you have to make for that juicy Skill Injectors. Man the up, you're getting offered FREE BONUS that has literally ZERO effort attached and you are *** complaining, holy tittyfucking christ. IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT DON'T DO IT, IT'S LIKE PLANETARY INTERACTION. And IF you like it, it's 8m FREE ISK per day and character, and after 50 days you can *** sell the SP, or throw them on one of your alts, or donate them to some newbies you're trying to help out. But no, CCP adds free stuff, everyone rages and loses their goddamn *** mind. Get **. Free bonuses is the killer of hardcore MMO's. I stopped playing WoW after vanilla because there where no longer need to atune for raids or actually do a dangerous "move OP" to the dungeon, effectively killing world PvP (TBC introduced flying mounts and more portals). It made the game easy and extremely mundane, making me and other players who likes complex games completely loose the interest in the game as it takes away a lot of the skill, planning of logistics and min/max out of the game replacing it with grind. Honestly I was kinda done with MMO gameing overall as I though brutally hard ones with complex mechanics where all dead and all where just a bunch of "WoW-clones" until I found EVE almost two years ago. Yes, i quit WoW for pretty much the same reasons. I also like hardcore, i do like it very much. And i don't feel like 10k sp is going to turn EVE into Hello Kitty Online, or worse, WoW. Safe your outrageous behaviour for the that will actually kill EVE, this however is none of it. You could get the same SP per day by plugging in +5 imps over flying an empty clone. Do you fly with +5 imps in nullsec pvp, because it is mandatory so you don't fall off the slope? No you don't because it is inconvenient for you. Thus, if you had to abandon your daily routine just to get "some SP", you won't do it. But this SP here is easy, for some people that want to get the maximum sp gains, they will do it, just like they would plug in +5s. Others, like me, are sitting at a farily big pile of SP on their chars and are even stripping them from SP. On this char, i have no real desire to farm skillpoints all day erry day. So i won't do it actively. If i happen to collect some, fine. Maybe i'll put them to use. But i don't feel the urge to do space chores just so i can keep playing EVE. Also, keep in mind, your current SP gains are not going away. This is not some ** where you are REQUIRED to grind in order to advance in the game.
Lugh Crow-Slave 1836	Posted - 2016.04.09 17:50:22 - [647] - Quote Syrias Bizniz wrote: Tavion Aksmis wrote: Syrias Bizniz wrote: Mister Ripley wrote: I'm still not sure if this is real or a joke... Right now I can play the way I like whenever I want without missing anything. This makes EVE special for me, because I don't have to follow stupid weekly award bullshit XP boost crap. If you give me the feeling that I miss something every time I don't do some stupid ** that you think is worth a reward, I don't think this will motivate me to play more but to play less and to let my sub expire. My time is limited, like everyone else's is. You playerbase is not freaking 12year olds that have nothing better to do. If you want it that way, then say good bye to quality eve and hello to Shitgame No. 42542 You have that already. Every 20 minutes you are not logged in, you miss out dank ISK ticks. Every dank ISK tick you miss out is one further step you have to make for that juicy Skill Injectors. Man the up, you're getting offered FREE BONUS that has literally ZERO effort attached and you are *** complaining, holy tittyfucking christ. IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT DON'T DO IT, IT'S LIKE PLANETARY INTERACTION. And IF you like it, it's 8m FREE ISK per day and character, and after 50 days you can *** sell the SP, or throw them on one of your alts, or donate them to some newbies you're trying to help out. But no, CCP adds free stuff, everyone rages and loses their goddamn *** mind. Get **. Free bonuses is the killer of hardcore MMO's. I stopped playing WoW after vanilla because there where no longer need to atune for raids or actually do a dangerous "move OP" to the dungeon, effectively killing world PvP (TBC introduced flying mounts and more portals). It made the game easy and extremely mundane, making me and other players who likes complex games completely loose the interest in the game as it takes away a lot of the skill, planning of logistics and min/max out of the game replacing it with grind. Honestly I was kinda done with MMO gameing overall as I though brutally hard ones with complex mechanics where all dead and all where just a bunch of "WoW-clones" until I found EVE almost two years ago. Yes, i quit WoW for pretty much the same reasons. I also like hardcore, i do like it very much. And i don't feel like 10k sp is going to turn EVE into Hello Kitty Online, or worse, WoW. Safe your outrageous behaviour for the that will actually kill EVE, this however is none of it. You could get the same SP per day by plugging in +5 imps over flying an empty clone. Do you fly with +5 imps in nullsec pvp, because it is mandatory so you don't fall off the slope? No you don't because it is inconvenient for you. Thus, if you had to abandon your daily routine just to get "some SP", you won't do it. But this SP here is easy, for some people that want to get the maximum sp gains, they will do it, just like they would plug in +5s. Others, like me, are sitting at a farily big pile of SP on their chars and are even stripping them from SP. On this char, i have no real desire to farm skillpoints all day erry day. So i won't do it actively. If i happen to collect some, fine. Maybe i'll put them to use. But i don't feel the urge to do space chores just so i can keep playing EVE. Also, keep in mind, your current SP gains are not going away. This is not some ** where you are REQUIRED to grind in order to advance in the game. People are upset by what this is leading to and the ideology behind things like dailies not the sp Citadel worm hole tax
Krevnos Back Door Burglars The Otherworld 132	Posted - 2016.04.09 18:05:49 - [648] - Quote Syrias Bizniz wrote: [quote=Tavion Aksmis][quote=Syrias Bizniz] Safe your outrageous behaviour for the **** that will actually kill EVE, this however is none of it. This is where you are wrong. To put it into perspective what CCP are attempting to do is to cajole players into performing menial daily tasks, this introduction being the first in a series. This will be expanded to other activities: mining, data/relic sites, scanning, placing market orders. Take, for instance a station trader who now feels they need to go and kill a rat in order to get 'that little bit extra'. Now consider your own daily gaming time where you feel obligated to perform a series of pathetic tasks in order to keep up with other players doing the same. By definition this is Theme Park MMO material. Would you rather enjoy your own gaming style or follow a set of daily guidelines laid out for you by CCP? This is an attack on freedom of choice in EvE and you should be very concerned! Now join me by extending your middle finger to Eve's developers on this proposal!
Dave Stark 7923	Posted - 2016.04.09 18:09:43 - [649] - Quote Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: People are upset by what this is leading to and the ideology behind things like dailies not the sp actually, sp as a reward is a bigger issue than adding daily rewards in itself. the problem is, a reward like SP that can't be obtained by other means creates a situation where you get punished for not logging in, rather than rewarded for logging in. 10m isk instead? nobody would really care if they miss it. they can grind for another 5 mins another day. of course, you could always, and probably will, argue that's not an issue with skill injectors and i'll partially agree. you can make it up with skill injectors - but now you're just shafting every dedicated player that has been playing for more than like 2 months, due to the diminishing returns on injectors. that means that the punishment for not logging in is harsher for those of us that has supported ccp for the longest. it's like ccp didn't really put much thought in to how this would affect anything. it's like now they have the precedent {for lack of a better term} to dish out SP here there and everywhere they feel that they must shoehorn it in to everything regardless of how much of a dumb idea it will be.
Lugh Crow-Slave 1836	Posted - 2016.04.09 18:18:01 - [650] - Quote Dave Stark wrote: Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: People are upset by what this is leading to and the ideology behind things like dailies not the sp actually, sp as a reward is a bigger issue than adding daily rewards in itself. the problem is, a reward like SP that can't be obtained by other means creates a situation where you get punished for not logging in, rather than rewarded for logging in. 10m isk instead? nobody would really care if they miss it. they can grind for another 5 mins another day. of course, you could always, and probably will, argue that's not an issue with skill injectors and i'll partially agree. you can make it up with skill injectors - but now you're just shafting every dedicated player that has been playing for more than like 2 months, due to the diminishing returns on injectors. that means that the punishment for not logging in is harsher for those of us that has supported ccp for the longest. it's like ccp didn't really put much thought in to how this would affect anything. it's like now they have the precedent {for lack of a better term} to dish out SP here there and everywhere they feel that they must shoehorn it in to everything regardless of how much of a dumb idea it will be. Lol yes sp as a tool makes it worse but you can replace sp woth any other powerful otherwise unobtainable item and the issue stays the same That's what I meant by its not the sp but the entire concept of dailies Citadel worm hole tax
Dave Stark 7923	Posted - 2016.04.09 18:32:22 - [651] - Quote Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Dave Stark wrote: Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: People are upset by what this is leading to and the ideology behind things like dailies not the sp actually, sp as a reward is a bigger issue than adding daily rewards in itself. the problem is, a reward like SP that can't be obtained by other means creates a situation where you get punished for not logging in, rather than rewarded for logging in. 10m isk instead? nobody would really care if they miss it. they can grind for another 5 mins another day. of course, you could always, and probably will, argue that's not an issue with skill injectors and i'll partially agree. you can make it up with skill injectors - but now you're just shafting every dedicated player that has been playing for more than like 2 months, due to the diminishing returns on injectors. that means that the punishment for not logging in is harsher for those of us that has supported ccp for the longest. it's like ccp didn't really put much thought in to how this would affect anything. it's like now they have the precedent {for lack of a better term} to dish out SP here there and everywhere they feel that they must shoehorn it in to everything regardless of how much of a dumb idea it will be. Lol yes sp as a tool makes it worse but you can replace sp woth any other powerful otherwise unobtainable item and the issue stays the same That's what I meant by its not the sp but the entire concept of dailies agreed, if they were giving out geckos or something that you can't obtain any other way you'd have the same problem. if done right daily rewards could be good. here, let me give you an example. call it 10m isk instead of 10k sp. what happens if i miss a day's SP reward? gone forever, no way to get that back. what happens if i miss a day's isk reward? nbd, just grind for 5 more mins tomorrow. what happens if the reward is only 10m? it's still worth doing, 10m for such a trivial task is a great isk:time:effort thing. you still get rewarded for doing it, but you're not going to feel punished if you don't. alternatively, just making it a weekly thing for a bigger reward/more effort would also solve the issue of people having to try and shoehorn it in to their lives at inconvenient times because of the dumb 22hr mechanic rather than "reset at dt" style reset mechanic.
Arya Regnar Darwins Right Hand 967	Posted - 2016.04.09 18:40:20 - [652] - Quote You can go eat a bag of you know what. Go to hell. EvE-Mail me if you need anything.
Tokyo Drifter School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 18	Posted - 2016.04.09 18:43:27 - [653] - Quote >Skill Injectors >Jump Fatigue >Fozzie Sov, working in favors of weekend warriors and sovless entities >T3 servers with tidi even more unplayable than before the upgrade And now daily quests for dank skill point xp Just lawl
Gedrick frogue Heuristic Industrial And Development AddictClan 45	Posted - 2016.04.09 18:51:08 - [654] - Quote Ah HELL NO Who at CCP was vaping from a volcano and thought this horse poop is a good idea?
Lugh Crow-Slave 1836	Posted - 2016.04.09 18:52:54 - [655] - Quote Dave Stark wrote: Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Dave Stark wrote: Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: People are upset by what this is leading to and the ideology behind things like dailies not the sp actually, sp as a reward is a bigger issue than adding daily rewards in itself. the problem is, a reward like SP that can't be obtained by other means creates a situation where you get punished for not logging in, rather than rewarded for logging in. 10m isk instead? nobody would really care if they miss it. they can grind for another 5 mins another day. of course, you could always, and probably will, argue that's not an issue with skill injectors and i'll partially agree. you can make it up with skill injectors - but now you're just shafting every dedicated player that has been playing for more than like 2 months, due to the diminishing returns on injectors. that means that the punishment for not logging in is harsher for those of us that has supported ccp for the longest. it's like ccp didn't really put much thought in to how this would affect anything. it's like now they have the precedent {for lack of a better term} to dish out SP here there and everywhere they feel that they must shoehorn it in to everything regardless of how much of a dumb idea it will be. Lol yes sp as a tool makes it worse but you can replace sp woth any other powerful otherwise unobtainable item and the issue stays the same That's what I meant by its not the sp but the entire concept of dailies agreed, if they were giving out geckos or something that you can't obtain any other way you'd have the same problem. if done right daily rewards could be good. here, let me give you an example. call it 10m isk instead of 10k sp. what happens if i miss a day's SP reward? gone forever, no way to get that back. what happens if i miss a day's isk reward? nbd, just grind for 5 more mins tomorrow. what happens if the reward is only 10m? it's still worth doing, 10m for such a trivial task is a great isk:time:effort thing. you still get rewarded for doing it, but you're not going to feel punished if you don't. alternatively, just making it a weekly thing for a bigger reward/more effort would also solve the issue of people having to try and shoehorn it in to their lives at inconvenient times because of the dumb 22hr mechanic rather than "reset at dt" style reset mechanic. Aye to bad all ccp wants out of this is numbers so even if they did go with isk or something like that it would just be to hear the wage slower for us it wouldn't be long before the returned to sp:/ Only way to prevent it is to keep dailies out of eve. Besides I really don't like the idea of ccp telling me what I'm supposed to do. What happened to hands of and just seeing what goals the players set for themselves. Citadel worm hole tax
Mara Pahrdi The Order of Anoyia 1117	Posted - 2016.04.09 18:56:35 - [656] - Quote Instead of creating exciting gameplay that entices people to log in CCP decides to head for sp grind? This is the worst idea I've seen in the last 5,5 years and the first time in those 5,5 years I seriously consider to look where I've put my authenticator when I left wow. Edit: CCP Rise for Team Where Nothing Matters Any More... Remove insurance.
Ralph King-Griffin Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance 15044	Posted - 2016.04.09 19:05:06 - [657] - Quote This is one of the worst ideas i have seen in my time here. No. Do not do this. Better the Devil you know. =]\|[=
Mara Pahrdi The Order of Anoyia 1117	Posted - 2016.04.09 19:06:53 - [658] - Quote Scatim Helicon wrote: It's not even that this is a game breakingly terrible idea, though the motives are laughably transparent. What's more worrying is the lack of imagination and lack of faith in the core product it betrays. There's a clear trend amongst the current generation of devs of abandoning the original CCP philosophy of forging their own path and taking Eve in its own direction away from the mainstream, instead copying ideas they've seen other developers use in other games and attempting to graft them on to Eve. Hence we see a skins shop for personalising our avatars, Capture The Flag sovereignty mechanics and now a proposal for daily quests. CCP has gone from being a developer known for innovation, to a developer known for imitation. /Thread Remove insurance.
Lugh Crow-Slave 1836	Posted - 2016.04.09 19:18:12 - [659] - Quote Mara Pahrdi wrote: Scatim Helicon wrote: It's not even that this is a game breakingly terrible idea, though the motives are laughably transparent. What's more worrying is the lack of imagination and lack of faith in the core product it betrays. There's a clear trend amongst the current generation of devs of abandoning the original CCP philosophy of forging their own path and taking Eve in its own direction away from the mainstream, instead copying ideas they've seen other developers use in other games and attempting to graft them on to Eve. Hence we see a skins shop for personalising our avatars, Capture The Flag sovereignty mechanics and now a proposal for daily quests. CCP has gone from being a developer known for innovation, to a developer known for imitation. /Thread To be fair I don't think it's the devs doping it is probably the higher ups Also fozzie sov was not bad on paper we were just really good at finding exploits it is better than the grind freest it used to be but it also needs a lot more work of not a total overhaul Citadel worm hole tax
Moac Tor Cyber Core Stain Confederation 476	Posted - 2016.04.09 19:23:50 - [660] - Quote WTF, this is BS. So now Eve is turned into a grind. Wasn't the selling point that in eve you don't grind for skills.... Modulated ECM Effects An Alternative to Skill Trading
Lugh Crow-Slave 1836	Posted - 2016.04.09 19:24:31 - [661] - Quote What worries me the most is once this gets put in it will do exactly what ccp wants and it will do it well Marketing will see it and investors will see it Once that happens. ... Citadel worm hole tax
Karma Bad Evil Trade Market 11	Posted - 2016.04.09 19:25:14 - [662] - Quote At one point in time, Eve was a game where it proclamed that you can progress as fast as everyone one else. Optimizing is in my book ok, But forcing people to log in, and burn themselves out for sp doesnt feel right. I like the idea that sp can only come from training time, and from that pool and spread it around to other players. If eve wishes to push a daily system, it should not include sp, but some other form of LP and should only be account wide not per toon. And im not a fan of per day, per week is more up the way i think things should be if I "have" to have it. Which I Dont. Now expand it to include more than kill a npc, on the inital pass, else it will just be a broken system that may never be fixed, if your going to do it, do more than the 1 thing. As such, if i had to pick a way of doing this, create a a system where you can have X dailys stored up daily's, any of which can be what ccp is pushing for its particular day. It regens once every 12, 24 or every downtime and can stay in the pool for no more than 30 days. This will in my book make eve less of a I have to log in "like every other game i dont want to play right now" and do Chores, as realy that what this mechanic is as the first 2 dev feed backs in this post make it being, Just some Chores so you have to log in or miss out. or option 2 in my book make this only available for the 30-60 days or 30-60 claims (as in so many times in a toons lifetime) as the way its implemented. Or worse but still better than what it is now. every 3 months (like sisters arc) you can or will get a quest like time where if you save the world from something where you have to protect someone (perferebly building it into some type of lore) where you have to log in for only a "week", Longer than that your working on burning up your players Players that already push themselves to burning up, Please dont do every day, for the rest of eve or else i see many people looking at it as something they have to do due to the psycology of missing out on something. With this, it could create zombies that all they do is log in and do what ever they need to and log out, creating a distinct disconnect from eve, even if you get a higher log in count... it May end up creating less content for minimal gain.
Indahmawar Fazmarai 5025	Posted - 2016.04.09 19:31:06 - [663] - Quote It's interesting to see how the feedback in this thread comes from people who don't PvE. And this makes sense, since PvErs are a quiet crowd. CCP would have been better off just releasing this with a one-liner at the patch notes for Citadel. With this thread, they just got the whole nine yards of angry PvPrs and zero feedback from PvErs...
Dave Stark 7923	Posted - 2016.04.09 19:32:40 - [664] - Quote Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote: It's interesting to see how the feedback in this thread comes from people who don't PvE. And this makes sense, since PvErs are a quiet crowd. CCP would have been better off just releasing this with a one-liner at the patch notes for Citadel. With this thread, they just got the whole nine yards of angry PvPrs and zero feedback from PvErs... as some one who does pve frequently. this implementation of this idea is still terrible.
Moac Tor Cyber Core Stain Confederation 476	Posted - 2016.04.09 19:37:18 - [665] - Quote I've seen a lot of people stop logging into eve, they seem to have lost interest since SP became a commodity. Grinding for SP I expect will continue this and simply kill the game for a lot of people. After injectors and now this I have no faith that Rise really knows what he is doing and is simply rehashing all the generic ideas from the MMORPG industry. Modulated ECM Effects An Alternative to Skill Trading
Saranja Foundation II 4	Posted - 2016.04.09 19:37:45 - [666] - Quote If you need to reward people to actively play the game, there is something wrong with the game. No need for a reward here. And then how about skill point inflation with injectors and rewards? Quite a useless feature in my point of view. Regards, -SAR
Lugh Crow-Slave 1836	Posted - 2016.04.09 19:39:51 - [667] - Quote Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote: It's interesting to see how the feedback in this thread comes from people who don't PvE. And this makes sense, since PvErs are a quiet crowd. CCP would have been better off just releasing this with a one-liner at the patch notes for Citadel. With this thread, they just got the whole nine yards of angry PvPrs and zero feedback from PvErs... What do you mean I hardly ever pvp What I do is make my own damn goals in eve and work with other players who share it I don't need ccp yelling me what to do when I log in every day Citadel worm hole tax
Gevlin Fink Operations The Volition Cult 281	Posted - 2016.04.09 19:43:39 - [668] - Quote I think if this proposal came out when the extended skill cue came out, there would be less of an up set. The skill cue did make people log on just to change the skill cue. Sadly we are human who play out of habit and incentive, we also have short memories. Sadly if Eve is it to remain a successful game needs to motivate people to log on. Due to the nature of player created content this log on and get out of the station will creat content: players to shoot at for these pvp guys. Once people have gotten beyond the barrier to log in and in space, they will have a tendency to stay on longer, to complete another couple of tasks before logging off. (Making more content) I hear this is being compared to WOW a lot , I expect a different effect due to the nature of Eve's Social structure, it will be a massive game changer, either the Trolls/poisonous players log on more often making the place a toilet, or positive content and players log on to populate the would. I would like 5k personally, Just to want feel that the money I am paying for a subscription is of value, even though I am not logging on because I need to be responsible. I would say this is a positive move, leveraging social science knowledge to facilitate desired player activity, I just question is the carrot of ;10k needlessly too large for the desired effect. On a side note since CCP is providing a consumption behaviour mechanic; will there be option for tools to allow responsibly platy?like a set table timer that will let me know my game time I set is over and that my client will be shutting down in 30 mins, 15, 10 ... Also give me a snooze button that gives me a deminishing time to extend play. Though I can log in again to start a new secession. Someday I will have the time to play. For now it is mining afk in High sec. In Cheap ships
Drago Shouna Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire 329	Posted - 2016.04.09 19:47:24 - [669] - Quote Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote: It's interesting to see how the feedback in this thread comes from people who don't PvE. And this makes sense, since PvErs are a quiet crowd. CCP would have been better off just releasing this with a one-liner at the patch notes for Citadel. With this thread, they just got the whole nine yards of angry PvPrs and zero feedback from PvErs... Pardon, did you actually read this thread?
Lugh Crow-Slave 1836	Posted - 2016.04.09 19:48:43 - [670] - Quote Gevlin wrote: On a side note since CCP is providing a consumption behaviour mechanic; will there be option for tools to allow responsibly platy?like a set table timer that will let me know my game time I set is over and that my client will be shutting down in 30 mins, 15, 10 ... Also give me a snooze button that gives me a deminishing time to extend play. Though I can log in again to start a new secession. Lol no wonder so many ppl are in debt these days when ppl with credit cards can't even manage their own time without a computer telling them they have had enough Citadel worm hole tax
Drago Shouna Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire 329	Posted - 2016.04.09 19:49:00 - [671] - Quote Gevlin wrote: I think if this proposal came out when the extended skill cue came out, there would be less of an up set. The skill cue did make people log on just to change the skill cue. Sadly we are human who play out of habit and incentive, we also have short memories. Sadly if Eve is it to remain a successful game needs to motivate people to log on. Due to the nature of player created content this log on and get out of the station will creat content: players to shoot at for these pvp guys. Once people have gotten beyond the barrier to log in and in space, they will have a tendency to stay on longer, to complete another couple of tasks before logging off. (Making more content) I hear this is being compared to WOW a lot , I expect a different effect due to the nature of Eve's Social structure, it will be a massive game changer, either the Trolls/poisonous players log on more often making the place a toilet, or positive content and players log on to populate the would. I would like 5k personally, Just to want feel that the money I am paying for a subscription is of value, even though I am not logging on because I need to be responsible. I would say this is a positive move, leveraging social science knowledge to facilitate desired player activity, I just question is the carrot of ;10k needlessly too large for the desired effect. On a side note since CCP is providing a consumption behaviour mechanic; will there be option for tools to allow responsibly platy?like a set table timer that will let me know my game time I set is over and that my client will be shutting down in 30 mins, 15, 10 ... Also give me a snooze button that gives me a deminishing time to extend play. Though I can log in again to start a new secession. QUEUE, NOT FECKING CUE. grrroons.
Baygun EVE University Ivy League 11	Posted - 2016.04.09 20:18:45 - [672] - Quote OK, Another idea - that most definitely will make people log in. Make a random universe wide pulse that stops POS-es and Outpost activity as well as randomly cancels trade orders on market. Unless owner clicks something somewhere while logged on. No reward needed at all "Dailies" will mutate in very bad direction. You are warned CCP, you are...
Lugh Crow-Slave 1836	Posted - 2016.04.09 20:23:20 - [673] - Quote Baygun wrote: "Dailies" will mutate in very bad direction. You are warned CCP, you are... CCP knows this but that "bad" direction is exactly what they want They ate not looking at us as players with this only as numbers Citadel worm hole tax
Seraph Essael eXceed Inc. 1188	Posted - 2016.04.09 20:27:36 - [674] - Quote By all means add more PvE content to EvE. I don't PvE anyway. Don't get me wrong I've run the odd WH site and what not but I am not a PvE'er. I will run one site and be bored of it. So by all means cater some more for the PvE crowd. But for the love of god, do not make the reward SP. Make it Aurum instead. Aurum will mean people can spend it willynilly in the store and buy skill extractors or ship skins or clothing / whatever... Don't just magic up Skill Points out of thin air. Quoted from Doc Fury: "Concerned citizens: Doc seldom plays EVE on the weekends during spring and summer, so you will always be on your own for a couple days a week. Doc spends that time collecting kittens for the on-going sacrifices, engaging in reckless outdoor activities, and speaking in the 3rd person."
Mara Pahrdi The Order of Anoyia 1117	Posted - 2016.04.09 20:37:31 - [675] - Quote Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote: It's interesting to see how the feedback in this thread comes from people who don't PvE. And this makes sense, since PvErs are a quiet crowd. CCP would have been better off just releasing this with a one-liner at the patch notes for Citadel. With this thread, they just got the whole nine yards of angry PvPrs and zero feedback from PvErs... I haven't done any PvP in quite some time by now. Still not in favour of this change. Remove insurance.
Big Adtur Imperial House of Pancakes Syrup Fiends Republic 1	Posted - 2016.04.09 20:41:48 - [676] - Quote Great CCP! support this 100% people saying the SP comes from nowhere are whack, the SP is created as Isk/Lp from an activity, Eve needs activity, needs players login and undocking and doing sht, just merely using your credit card to sub, queue and never login til 6-7 months after is not fun for the population, most of the people that were against the "pay-to-win" injectors are now angry because of daily stuff to do, guess the most Eve action you see is talkin sht in the forums the same people that say that Eve is not about SP but real skill are the ones that condemn this kind of stuff from CCP, simply whiners that do no good to the game or the company bottom line. They say it will turn Eve into a grind/etc while CCP are expressing they are gonna see how the player base acts on this. I hope CCP does the same as with injectors, which is not paying attention to the whiners and debbiedowners of the forums. CCP keep rockin'
Lugh Crow-Slave 1836	Posted - 2016.04.09 20:44:48 - [677] - Quote Big Adtur wrote: Great CCP! support this 100% people saying the SP comes from nowhere are whack, the SP is created as Isk/Lp from an activity, Eve needs activity, needs players login and undocking and doing sht, just merely using your credit card to sub, queue and never login til 6-7 months after is not fun for the population, most of the people that were against the "pay-to-win" injectors are now angry because of daily stuff to do, guess the most Eve action you see is talkin sht in the forums the same people that say that Eve is not about SP but real skill are the ones that condemn this kind of stuff from CCP, simply whiners that do no good to the game or the company bottom line. They say it will turn Eve into a grind/etc while CCP are expressing they are gonna see how the player base acts on this. I hope CCP does the same as with injectors, which is not paying attention to the whiners and debbiedowners of the forums. CCP keep rockin' 1st this and pay to win have no connecting 2nd it's not sp is irrelevant and it's all about player skill. It's you can or play anyone regardless of sp if you have the skill 3rd alot of us that are upset ate not upset because of the reward being sp Citadel worm hole tax
Mdm Curie Pizza Delivery Express 0	Posted - 2016.04.09 20:58:01 - [678] - Quote I think this is great idea. Would reward those who do something.
Lugh Crow-Slave 1836	Posted - 2016.04.09 21:02:04 - [679] - Quote Mdm Curie wrote: I think this is great idea. Would reward those who do something. Going to a belt killing a tray and docking back up is not really doing something Citadel worm hole tax
Dave Stark 7923	Posted - 2016.04.09 21:04:33 - [680] - Quote Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Mdm Curie wrote: I think this is great idea. Would reward those who do something. Going to a belt killing a tray and docking back up is not really doing something and there's already a reward for it. rats have bounties.
Sama Dobrota Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 55	Posted - 2016.04.09 21:06:12 - [681] - Quote Dear CCP Rise, May you, please, ask your team just three questions: - What they (as players, not as game designers) value the most in the MMOs they had ever tried? - What they found most boring and annoying in these MMOs? - Which of those exciting and distressing features they believe currently exist in Eve Online? From the recent discussions I see GÇ£a carrot and stickGÇ¥ approach turning into GÇ£just stickGÇ¥ - we will raise taxes and force you to trade in Citadels no matter what you think - we will make you regret you don't login each of your 100500 toons each and every day (yes, in my understanding logging in to do some repeating boring stuff is evidently not GÇ£a carrotGÇ¥) CCP is trying to force the progress to make Eve fit Developers expectations, no matter how community reacts. Remember the red crosses? And this scares me as I would not like that Eve Online evolution that is aimed to slowly transform the game into World of Tanks in Space, because CCP's business goals dictate this. Introducing SP as the new game currency to grid for or to purchase may provide you better income, although it will take to replace a huge part of the current playerbase. A good vet with sympathies to dogs is cutting their tails not with a single stroke, but by gradually removing tiny chunks, hoping dog does not notice that. Finally, either Eve Online stays a sandbox or not. That's that simple. I'd suggest replacing the rewards by small Aurum tokens as they are harder to convert into SP or limiting chores only for new players below 5M skillpoints to help their progress. Or just give up with this controversial idea and invent some new stuff that attracts but not forces. I am not a game developer and don't know if happy players community and good game reputation are essential for gamemakers profits. Are they? Thanks. P.S. oh, and why there is no GÇ£DislikeGÇ¥ button at the Forum?
Lugh Crow-Slave 1836	Posted - 2016.04.09 21:17:59 - [682] - Quote CCP I hate to say this but you ate really bad at making games But that's okay because you are very good at making tools So hears a deal you make the tools and we will keep using them to make our own game just like we have been for over a decade now. We Don't need you to tell us how to use these tools and it seems your developers understand that (they wouldn't even tell us how they intended the new carriers to be used. In fact they flat out refused to tell us and this is how it should be in a sand box) Citadel worm hole tax
baltec1 Bat Country Pandemic Legion 17543	Posted - 2016.04.09 21:23:18 - [683] - Quote Ruby Gnollo wrote: baltec1 wrote: Newplayer 1 is disadvantaged to the tune of 50k SP every week they play. This is good how? Killing a NPC is a 5mn/day/toon task. Even people working at Goldman Sachs spend more than one hour a day on the internet minding their own business. That's twelve times what you need for that. I don't log in every day, I simply do not have the time every day to sit down at a PC to play a game. I have things I need to do, people to see, things to wash, food to eat and so on. People only spending time in a game at the weekend is a very real thing.
Lugh Crow-Slave 1836	Posted - 2016.04.09 21:31:06 - [684] - Quote baltec1 wrote: I don't log in every day, I simply do not have the time every day to sit down at a PC to play a game. I have things I need to do, people to see, things to wash, food to eat and so on. People only spending time in a game at the weekend is a very real thing. I really wish I could live the life of people who don't understand this Citadel worm hole tax
Lan Wang Knights of the Posing Meat FETID 2636	Posted - 2016.04.09 21:31:39 - [685] - Quote Baygun wrote: OK, Another idea - that most definitely will make people log in. Make a random universe wide pulse that stops POS-es and Outpost activity as well as randomly cancels trade orders on market. Unless ownerposts to facebook while logged on requesting 10 clicks from facebook friends. No reward needed at all and free promotion and annoyance to all your friends on facebook "Dailies" will mutate in very bad direction. You are warned CCP, you are... Fixed that for you FETID now recruiting pvp pilots & corporations \| lowsec pvp & piracy - Join FETID Loyalist to Angel Cartel & Serpentis
Daichi Yamato Xero Security and Technologies 3185	Posted - 2016.04.09 21:44:36 - [686] - Quote Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote: It's interesting to see how the feedback in this thread comes from people who don't PvE. And this makes sense, since PvErs are a quiet crowd. CCP would have been better off just releasing this with a one-liner at the patch notes for Citadel. With this thread, they just got the whole nine yards of angry PvPrs and zero feedback from PvErs... Save yourself the embarrassment and stop posting bull ****. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided" Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Advenat Bedala Facehoof Out of Sight. 112	Posted - 2016.04.09 22:03:45 - [687] - Quote Well Rise, I still wondering if it was a 1 April joke or not. We have an Astero as a bet.
Raphendyr Nardieu Unpublished Chapter Suddenly Content 78	Posted - 2016.04.09 22:03:46 - [688] - Quote I presume more or less of this is commented already, but I'll add this too so CCP can see more comments along the same lines. To my understanding there is 3 main things CCP has put to gether, that should be done separately. 1) SP for players. So if we would like to give more SP to (new) players I would do it in two different ways: Add SP bonus to main opportunities (current ones) [add opportunity "It's a Titan" al ready (without SP of course)]. This way the SP is limited per character and requires work to be gained. I think even 1-2M SP can be distributed this way. Other method to gain SP should be the skill injectors, thus keeping the only source for SP in normal training. Remember that one can convert ISK to SP (those injectors) so we don't need to distribute SP directly. 2) Daily/Weekly bonus. I'm not against them directly, but I would really do rewards with items, LP or pure ISK. Looking it from ISK perspective (items and LP eventually is just ISK),, you can give even 1M ISK per day and that will not make older pilots to do those chores! E.g. 1M ISK per day is huge for one that needs these daylies (e.g. new pilots) while 10k SP (that feels less than 1M ISK, but is not). Thus, I would really stay with those ISK based rewards. SP rewards are really hard to balance to anything acceptable. E.g. 1k SP / day could be fine, but then it wouldn't matter. 3) Dismissing already existing daily tasks. So, as mentioned we already have systems that are kind of daily tasks. Really good example is PI. In PI one can choose if he wants to update extractors hourly, daily, weekly or so. The systems works for multiple different players. Also market trading can be seen as such. So in the end we kind of have already a lot of daily tasks. So instead of implementing a lot of new ones, should be update the existing ones to work better? E.g. PI has been waiting UI and mechanics update for some time?. Though I still think 1M ISK/day for completing e.g. mission is totally fine as it doesn't brake existing game play. tl;dr: Instead of SP, give ISK. Meaningful amount of ISK (e.g. 1M) doesn't make older players to feel they are missing something. 10k SP/day is around 20% boost to skill training, thus missing it is a big thing.
Savant Alabel Raging Angels Pure Blind Cartel 58	Posted - 2016.04.09 22:05:11 - [689] - Quote Just a little quote your own devblog: Quote: ItGÇÖs very important to note here that this means all the skillpoints available to buy on the market in EVE will have originated on other characters where they were trained at the normal rate. Player driven economies are key to EVE design and we want you to decide the value of traded skillpoints while we make sure there is one single mechanism that brings new skillpoints in to the system GÇô training. https://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/skill-trading-in-new-eden/
Lugh Crow-Slave 1836	Posted - 2016.04.09 22:11:06 - [690] - Quote Savant Alabel wrote: Just a little quote your own devblog: Quote: ItGÇÖs very important to note here that this means all the skillpoints available to buy on the market in EVE will have originated on other characters where they were trained at the normal rate. Player driven economies are key to EVE design and we want you to decide the value of traded skillpoints while we make sure there is one single mechanism that brings new skillpoints in to the system GÇô training. https://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/skill-trading-in-new-eden/ Please ccp spaid they didn't want high speed increment for Citadels and in the sake blog talked about 4 new skills and that they would use fighters. I don't think the ppl writing them even read them But cmon ccp Citadel worm hole tax
Sgt Ocker Kenshin. DARKNESS. 898	Posted - 2016.04.09 22:30:10 - [691] - Quote Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: baltec1 wrote: I don't log in every day, I simply do not have the time every day to sit down at a PC to play a game. I have things I need to do, people to see, things to wash, food to eat and so on. People only spending time in a game at the weekend is a very real thing. I really wish I could live the life of people who don't understand this It is really easy to understand, like in any and every other game that has dailies - If you don't log in every day - YOU DON"T GET THEM. My opinions are mine. If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Lugh Crow-Slave 1836	Posted - 2016.04.09 22:34:12 - [692] - Quote Sgt Ocker wrote: Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: baltec1 wrote: I don't log in every day, I simply do not have the time every day to sit down at a PC to play a game. I have things I need to do, people to see, things to wash, food to eat and so on. People only spending time in a game at the weekend is a very real thing. I really wish I could live the life of people who don't understand this It is really easy to understand, like in any and every other game that has dailies - If you don't log in every day - YOU DON"T GET THEM. I'm talking about the people who don't understand that not everyone can log in every day... What I and many other people like about eve is it doesn't make me feel like I need to log in I can play at the pace I enjoy and that I can manage Is the same reason many of us don't like the idea of actively training skills Citadel worm hole tax
Gatosai I Pay Hookers 2 Leave Archetype. 8	Posted - 2016.04.09 22:54:19 - [693] - Quote Skia Aumer wrote: CCP Rise wrote: Feedback appreciate as always Burn in hell. Literally the worse idea CCP has ever had. SP rewards on anything is a bad idea.
Lugh Crow-Slave 1836	Posted - 2016.04.09 23:02:08 - [694] - Quote Gatosai wrote: Skia Aumer wrote: CCP Rise wrote: Feedback appreciate as always Burn in hell. Literally the worse idea CCP has ever had. SP rewards on anything is a bad idea. Dailies of any kind are a bad idea Citadel worm hole tax
Kovl Jita Flipping Inc. 9	Posted - 2016.04.09 23:15:21 - [695] - Quote The issue is not SP. The issue is introducing the worst "mechanic" ever added to mmos - a daily, stupid chore. SP is used here as a leverage, as this is the only important resource that will actually make people do this **, despite hating it to the bone. No one would lift a finger if it was ISK, LP or whatever else. And I don't believe CCP people are naive to the point that they really belive it would "promote activity". They are literally lying to our faces about the real reasons. What it will certainly promote are daily whines and complaints but people will still keep doing this ** diligently, day by day, solo, as fast as possible. Log in, shoot a rat, log off, repeat on the next char. As otherwise they will feel like they are losing. It's a simple play on basic, primitive human behavior. And nothing triggers people better in this game than SP.
Mister Ripley Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde 185	Posted - 2016.04.09 23:16:30 - [696] - Quote Say hello to "Skin X Mondays", "Rare Ship Y Tuesdays ", "Implant Z Wednesdays" and "Gecko Thursdays". EDIT: Oh, and just imagine the tears from highsec bears that are wardecked and can't undock to get their daily reward
Arya Regnar Darwins Right Hand 967	Posted - 2016.04.09 23:20:57 - [697] - Quote Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote: It's interesting to see how the feedback in this thread comes from people who don't PvE. And this makes sense, since PvErs are a quiet crowd. CCP would have been better off just releasing this with a one-liner at the patch notes for Citadel. With this thread, they just got the whole nine yards of angry PvPrs and zero feedback from PvErs... People who PVE don't interact with others. They are irrelevant to the content creation of this game and only steer away from the core of what eve is. Grind grind oh look a red, lets dock up for a week just in case. I do not look forward to logging in 30 characters every day to not miss out on anything. I know full well I wont actually do it but this is still terrible. EvE-Mail me if you need anything.
Lugh Crow-Slave 1836	Posted - 2016.04.09 23:28:23 - [698] - Quote Arya Regnar wrote: Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote: It's interesting to see how the feedback in this thread comes from people who don't PvE. And this makes sense, since PvErs are a quiet crowd. CCP would have been better off just releasing this with a one-liner at the patch notes for Citadel. With this thread, they just got the whole nine yards of angry PvPrs and zero feedback from PvErs... People who PVE don't interact with others. They are irrelevant to the content creation of this game and only steer away from the core of what eve is. Grind grind oh look a red, lets dock up for a week just in case. I do not look forward to logging in 30 characters every day to not miss out on anything. I know full well I wont actually do it but this is still terrible. This is wrong in so many ways the majority of my fights have come from dropping on some PvErs to get their a back up to show Not top mention some one needs to mine But weather you pvp or pve dailies have no place in eve Citadel worm hole tax
Tau Cabalander Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs 5952	Posted - 2016.04.09 23:40:14 - [699] - Quote Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Dailies of any kind are a bad idea Agreed.
Krestin Royal Pirates 2	Posted - 2016.04.09 23:54:24 - [700] - Quote disgusting, stupit mmorpg, sp from nowhere, spiritkilling update
Pinkylein Rolling Static Gone Critical 6	Posted - 2016.04.10 00:38:12 - [701] - Quote Since personally it won't affect me if i log on all my toons or not, as i simply can't every day, i will live my eve life as usual. And most others will do as well, since it won't affect anyone really. Of course there will be those, that now try to be online every day and will maybe accomplish that for a week, or maybe 2 or maybe even a month. But then they will stop and they will not care at all and will go back to their usual activity. The people that do them, will have some SP to well train some stuff faster, some alts that are not training can now train something from time to time, without buying a PLEX. But i find it a bit funny though, all the reactions. When the servers are down, ppl yell for SP after 5min ... not the majority, but nobody thinks SP for that would be bad at the end ... and will at least say or think "no need for SP, but would be cool if we get it". Last time we received 200.000 SP for some hours the servers were down. Also the people that had actually not even time to log in, since they were at work, had family ... well the usual stuff. Nobody!!!! went to CCP and said "oh please we don't want that SP, please take it back." That was SP from nowhere, same as 20x those daily opportunities for ... not even beeing able to show activity at all. Same goes to the skill injectors ... first we tried to stop it, now we know it's there, we accept it, we don't take it, or ppl who take it, take them ... but it did not change our way of life in eve. Daily opportunites won't either.
Lugh Crow-Slave 1836	Posted - 2016.04.10 00:42:36 - [702] - Quote Pinkylein wrote: Since personally it won't affect me if i log on all my toons or not, as i simply can't every day, i will live my eve life as usual. And most others will do as well, since it won't affect anyone really. Of course there will be those, that now try to be online every day and will maybe accomplish that for a week, or maybe 2 or maybe even a month. But then they will stop and they will not care at all and will go back to their usual activity. The people that do them, will have some SP to well train some stuff faster, some alts that are not training can now train something from time to time, without buying a PLEX. But i find it a bit funny though, all the reactions. When the servers are down, ppl yell for SP after 5min ... not the majority, but nobody thinks SP for that would be bad at the end ... and will at least say or think "no need for SP, but would be cool if we get it". Last time we received 200.000 SP for some hours the servers were down. Also the people that had actually not even time to log in, since they were at work, had family ... well the usual stuff. Nobody!!!! went to CCP and said "oh please we don't want that SP, please take it back." That was SP from nowhere, same as 20x those daily opportunities for ... not even beeing able to show activity at all. Same goes to the skill injectors ... first we tried to stop it, now we know it's there, we accept it, we don't take it, or ppl who take it, take them ... but it did not change our way of life in eve. Daily opportunites won't either. again the SP is not the problem and your innocence in thinking no one will make it a point to log inn everyday for more than a month is cute Citadel worm hole tax
Harold Tuphlos The Dark Space Initiative Scary Wormhole People 90	Posted - 2016.04.10 00:48:27 - [703] - Quote This is a bad idea. I've never seen an implementation that didn't make playing the game seem more like work and less fun. This idea will mostly be farmed by alts for skill injectors in hisec for all of 5 minutes a day.
Krevnos Back Door Burglars The Otherworld 132	Posted - 2016.04.10 01:10:05 - [704] - Quote Pinkylein wrote: Since personally it won't affect me if i log on all my toons or not, as i simply can't every day, i will live my eve life as usual. And most others will do as well, since it won't affect anyone really. Of course there will be those, that now try to be online every day and will maybe accomplish that for a week, or maybe 2 or maybe even a month. But then they will stop and they will not care at all and will go back to their usual activity. The people that do them, will have some SP to well train some stuff faster, some alts that are not training can now train something from time to time, without buying a PLEX. But i find it a bit funny though, all the reactions. When the servers are down, ppl yell for SP after 5min ... not the majority, but nobody thinks SP for that would be bad at the end ... and will at least say or think "no need for SP, but would be cool if we get it". Last time we received 200.000 SP for some hours the servers were down. Also the people that had actually not even time to log in, since they were at work, had family ... well the usual stuff. Nobody!!!! went to CCP and said "oh please we don't want that SP, please take it back." That was SP from nowhere, same as 20x those daily opportunities for ... not even beeing able to show activity at all. Same goes to the skill injectors ... first we tried to stop it, now we know it's there, we accept it, we don't take it, or ppl who take it, take them ... but it did not change our way of life in eve. Daily opportunites won't either. You've entirely missed the point, I'm afraid. SP is not the issue, since now it is a resource like any other. The point is that daily chores serve as a means for CCP almost to force players into a play style that they lay out for us, rather than championing freedom of choice. If you do not follow CCP's dictated play style, you are punished through denial of progression. And to all the people shouting that it's only PvP'ers who are riled, I'm a usually quiet PvE'er (in fact I rat on all accounts) and I'm proud to hate this proposal!
Tristan Agion Viziam Amarr Empire 127	Posted - 2016.04.10 01:40:14 - [705] - Quote So... I bet we will have gankers hanging out in the belts, waiting for alts in bling ships to come for their daily rat. And while they wait, they can play games with people in insufficiently shiny ships, by racing them to any NPC spawn and shooting it before they get a chance. Some random idiot will probably even codify this as game philosophy. And when newbies get trolled for their tears in the belts - let them whittle down the NPC to hull slowly, then one-shot the NPC before they can finish, repeat every time they try, and follow them from belt to belt - CCP will probably install some "shooting gallery" belts with special rules in the newbie systems. Dumb ideas just keep on giving...
Cajun Waffles Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde 13	Posted - 2016.04.10 01:49:37 - [706] - Quote News flash: DAILIES are not required! If you feel that you are being forced to acquire an additional 4million skill points (total gained during the year) by doing dailies your whole argument is asinine! It's optional! Just like acquiring plex, extractors, etc.
Lugh Crow-Slave 1836	Posted - 2016.04.10 01:57:47 - [707] - Quote Tristan Agion wrote: So... I bet we will have gankers hanging out in the belts, waiting for alts in bling ships to come for their daily rat. And while they wait, they can play games with people in insufficiently shiny ships, by racing them to any NPC spawn and shooting it before they get a chance. Some random idiot will probably even codify this as game philosophy. And when newbies get trolled for their tears in the belts - let them whittle down the NPC to hull slowly, then one-shot the NPC before they can finish, repeat every time they try, and follow them from belt to belt - CCP will probably install some "shooting gallery" belts with special rules in the newbie systems. Dumb ideas just keep on giving... to be fair if you follow some one belt to belt like that and they make an attempt to get away from you it does fall under harassment EDIT: well i think they have to leave system but you get the point also no one is going to do this in anything blinged they will just show up in a t1 dessi and alpha a belt rat so no real opportunity to gank Citadel worm hole tax
Tau Cabalander Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs 5952	Posted - 2016.04.10 01:59:33 - [708] - Quote Cajun Waffles wrote: News flash: DAILIES are not required! If you feel that you are being forced to acquire an additional 4million skill points (total gained during the year) by doing dailies your whole argument is asinine! It's optional! Just like acquiring plex, extractors, etc. To keep up with the competition (that's everybody in EVE), you'll have to do them.
Lugh Crow-Slave 1836	Posted - 2016.04.10 01:59:41 - [709] - Quote Cajun Waffles wrote: News flash: DAILIES are not required! If you feel that you are being forced to acquire an additional 4million skill points (total gained during the year) by doing dailies your whole argument is asinine! It's optional! Just like acquiring plex, extractors, etc. the reason dailies work is because they dont feel optional the player feels like they are missing out or being disadvantaged by not doing them and again CCP should simply not be guiding players to do certain activities like this at most they should tell players what they can do and how to do it then go hands off not leave a little trail of goodies pointing one way or another Citadel worm hole tax
Cajun Waffles Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde 13	Posted - 2016.04.10 02:09:12 - [710] - Quote Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Cajun Waffles wrote: News flash: DAILIES are not required! If you feel that you are being forced to acquire an additional 4million skill points (total gained during the year) by doing dailies your whole argument is asinine! It's optional! Just like acquiring plex, extractors, etc. the reason dailies work is because they dont feel optional the player feels like they are missing out or being disadvantaged by not doing them and again CCP should simply not be guiding players to do certain activities like this at most they should tell players what they can do and how to do it then go hands off not leave a little trail of goodies pointing one way or another Disadvantage? Man if only I heard about this game in 2005 and not just recently.... Man I would have so many SP. lol This argument is flawed. I will retire from reading this thread any further.
Lugh Crow-Slave 1836	Posted - 2016.04.10 02:20:46 - [711] - Quote Cajun Waffles wrote: Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Cajun Waffles wrote: News flash: DAILIES are not required! If you feel that you are being forced to acquire an additional 4million skill points (total gained during the year) by doing dailies your whole argument is asinine! It's optional! Just like acquiring plex, extractors, etc. the reason dailies work is because they dont feel optional the player feels like they are missing out or being disadvantaged by not doing them and again CCP should simply not be guiding players to do certain activities like this at most they should tell players what they can do and how to do it then go hands off not leave a little trail of goodies pointing one way or another Disadvantage? Man if only I heard about this game in 2005 and not just recently.... Man I would have so many SP. lol This argument is flawed. I will retire from reading this thread any further. like i said the player feels disadvantaged weather they are or are not is irrelevant Citadel worm hole tax
Paedrigh MacDoughain Heuristic Industrial And Development AddictClan 4	Posted - 2016.04.10 02:45:28 - [712] - Quote CCP. I rarely ever post here. BUT! Here is one of those rare occasions. DON'T DO THIS. Another NO NO NO NOPE NOPE NOPE DA*N HELL SH!t NOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! My post is now added to the THREADCCPYOUSHALLNAUGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Gig 'Em, Aggies!
Petrified Old and Petrified Syndication TOG - The Older Gamers Alliance 373	Posted - 2016.04.10 03:35:10 - [713] - Quote Neadayan Drakhon wrote: Invalid comparison. EVE is a PC sandbox MMO, Dust is (soon to be was) a console FPS. EVE did not have SP dailies at initial launch. Dust did. EVE and Dust do not share the same player base, most people did not play both. As someone who has played both and enjoyed each for what it offers I can say this with confidence: keep them separate with regards to how SP is handled. Cloaking is the closest thing to a "Pause Game" button one can get while in space.
Petrified Old and Petrified Syndication TOG - The Older Gamers Alliance 373	Posted - 2016.04.10 03:45:15 - [714] - Quote Cajun Waffles wrote: News flash: DAILIES are not required! If you feel that you are being forced to acquire an additional 4million skill points (total gained during the year) by doing dailies your whole argument is asinine! It's optional! Just like acquiring plex, extractors, etc. You are right, it is not required. It is also not required to use implants, or optimize your Attributes, or even have anything training in your skill queue. Tell me, what do you consider that person compared to someone who maximizes their fittings to eek out the best DPS and Tank? You don't have to fit strip miners to a mining barge, you can use civilian mining lasers too. You don't have use Tech II Drones when you PvP because, you know, the Tech I are cheaper. You don't have to use a Shield Booster on a Golem when you could fit an Armor repper instead. Tell me, what would you say about that person? With a mechanic like dailies installed in EVE, sure, you don't have to do it, but you will. You will because to not do the dailies would make you less competitive and less efficient. It would be like that latter group who fits civilian mining lasers to a barge. Cloaking is the closest thing to a "Pause Game" button one can get while in space.
Cariq EVE University Ivy League 6	Posted - 2016.04.10 03:55:26 - [715] - Quote Roro Zoro wrote: As a 2m SP player i welcome this addition. Gathering SP to do (more) fun stuff takes a lot of time, like now i am training to T2 frigates for exploration and i need a whole month for all the skills, a little bump/boost is very welcome and gives the incentive to login every day. I guess that this addition is to boost the concurrent users and breath a bit more life into the game, i think its a good way but yeah dont make this world of warcraft.Tthese daily oportunities should be very limited, dont make the players feel that they HAVE TO do a bunch of dailies, its exausting. But killing a simple rat, just to make people login is very easy and a good approach. I understand that this is a little beyond the nature of the game for many people but skill extractors were the same, and those are limited to rich players. We "poor" players would very much like this daily opportunity, it takes quite long to learn some "basic skills" but maybe limiting to low sp character or introducing diminishing returns on the reward for high SP players will solve the problem. As a fellow new player, and an ISK-poor player as well, I am still opposed to this idea. If they need to implement this, maybe an SP cap (e.g. 5 million that many others have been throwing around in this thread) would be fine. I just don't want to feel burnt out because I feel like I need to do this one specific aspect of EVE every single day or risk missing out.
Captain Thunderwalker Haight Industries LLC 11	Posted - 2016.04.10 04:07:04 - [716] - Quote Why don't you just skip to the end a d out in skill"injectors" in the cash shop?
beakerax Pator Tech School 253	Posted - 2016.04.10 04:09:55 - [717] - Quote Cajun Waffles wrote: News flash: DAILIES are not required! If you feel that you are being forced to acquire an additional 4million skill points (total gained during the year) by doing dailies your whole argument is asinine! The purpose of dailies is to psychologically manipulate people into logging in when they otherwise wouldn't have. You don't seem to think this will be effective. If it's not effective, then there is no reason to add dailies.
LikVlDAt0R The Scope Gallente Federation 12	Posted - 2016.04.10 04:31:42 - [718] - Quote You just bury game. The next occasion to people to stop a subscription. You in the right mind?? The question is rhetorical.
Hold Alpha Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 7	Posted - 2016.04.10 05:25:33 - [719] - Quote Hello CCP Rise, I like the idea of more incentives to be in space; however, I believe the current proposal is very lazy and should include more triggers for the reward, in particular PvP activity. By limiting it to NPC kills you are taking away from the sandbox, by encouraging people to do activities they may not enjoy, instead of what they would usually do. This will lead to frustration and alienate those players in the long term. It is true that PvP kills are easy to game, but that can be kept in check via limitations the way killmarks work (no rookie ships/trials/blues). I believe this, combined with the fact it is a once-a-day reward, would be enough of a deterrent that those only looking for the SP might just go kill a belt rat instead. By covering more activities, fewer people will feel obligated to follow a fixed path, and instead feel rewarded for doing what they normally would. Salvaging, taking X number of gates in a hauler, there are a lot of options to improve on this idea and don't exclude other playstyles.
Advenat Bedala Facehoof Out of Sight. 112	Posted - 2016.04.10 05:49:50 - [720] - Quote Cajun Waffles wrote: News flash: DAILIES are not required! If you feel that you are being forced to acquire an additional 4million skill points (total gained during the year) by doing dailies your whole argument is asinine! It's optional! Just like acquiring plex, extractors, etc. By the way playing EVE also optional. PS I hope you can see more than one meaning in my sentence.
Dave Stark 7923	Posted - 2016.04.10 06:42:03 - [721] - Quote Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Cajun Waffles wrote: Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Cajun Waffles wrote: News flash: DAILIES are not required! If you feel that you are being forced to acquire an additional 4million skill points (total gained during the year) by doing dailies your whole argument is asinine! It's optional! Just like acquiring plex, extractors, etc. the reason dailies work is because they dont feel optional the player feels like they are missing out or being disadvantaged by not doing them and again CCP should simply not be guiding players to do certain activities like this at most they should tell players what they can do and how to do it then go hands off not leave a little trail of goodies pointing one way or another Disadvantage? Man if only I heard about this game in 2005 and not just recently.... Man I would have so many SP. lol This argument is flawed. I will retire from reading this thread any further. like i said the player feels disadvantaged weather they are or are not is irrelevant as soon as the game introduces some thing that 'must' be done. you either get to a point where players feel punished for not playing, and are likely to just walk away entirely - or log in daily only to do those mandatory things instead of playing the actual game leading to them actually playing less as they simply repeat monotonous tasks that contribute nothing to the game just to massage the PCU. it'd be really nice if we could get some input from CCP quant, actually. what proportion of accounts log in every single day. and what proportion of them log in 5+ times a week, or <=2 times a week. it'd be interesting to see just how many people would get the shaft, and how badly, if ccp were to implement a daily system as they've suggested.
Kassy Merryweather sarinora Corp 1	Posted - 2016.04.10 06:44:10 - [722] - Quote While I am not entirely against this idea and agree there should be more incentive to actually play the game, I believe that forcing players to do one thing to complete the daily is not really ideal. It seems like there is a lack of imagination on the ways to achieve the daily. If we could link the daily completion goal to the first mission you complete a day (some of us like running distribution missions that there are no rats in), mining a certain amount of m3 of ore, etc., would be more ideal. Right now, you are only catering to the players who like ratting.
Black Pedro Yammerschooner 2359	Posted - 2016.04.10 06:48:03 - [723] - Quote Petrified wrote: With a mechanic like dailies installed in EVE, sure, you don't have to do it, but you will. You will because to not do the dailies would make you less competitive and less efficient. It would be like that latter group who fits civilian mining lasers to a barge. And the problem with this proposal is the reward is so massively out-of-whack with anything else you can do, you rationally have no choice but to do them. If you log in and the first thing you do not do is undock all your alts and go shoot a single rat, you are playing the game wrong. Any other choice is leaving too much on the table. The SP rewards are so large compared to any other activity whether you farm the SP to sell, it use directly to progress you character, you have no choice but put aside whatever else you were planning, and head out by yourself hunting an NPCs for no greater purpose. Training skills the normal way is also a "choice" as you can leave your queue inactive but no one would argue that is a good way to play the game. The utility of these bonus SP is likewise so much better than anything else you can earn in the game, doing them is mandatory if your goal is to progress your character. If we are going to intrude so drastically on the "sandbox" concept and player freedom by skewing the rewards this way, do we really want the activity we are forcing the players to do to be shooting rats in belts by themselves? It would seem to me that there are better activities to push players to do than solo ratting, activities that might result in player interactions which add value to the greater universe. CCP, if you want to reward activity like you claim, then reward activity. If you want to reward undocking, the give some SP bonus for being in space. If you want to force players to drop whatever other game activity they were planning to enjoy and instead spend it logging multiple characters in and out and shooting rats by themselves, arguably the two least interesting parts of your game, then go with this proposal. Why Do They Gank?
Starbuck05 Misfits United I N G L O R I O U S 347	Posted - 2016.04.10 07:16:41 - [724] - Quote Well .. i got mixed feelings about this . On the one hand i'd be nice to get some extra SP on a daily basis to help training go faster , could even log on my alts and have them shoot an npc frig in high sec to get some sp .. etc On the other hand , i see massive amounts of exploiting to be done here ... Just consider in the long run people take advantage of this + skill extractors , Roughly every 2 months ( if the math checks out ) a fresh character from 1 account if he shoots 1 npc every day can use a skill extractor ( after he hits 5 mil sp ) can effectively get free 600 or so mil by selling injectors Also , if you decide to implent this to pvp ... then oh joy of joys for all the hub campers , gate campers , cyno blappers and suicide gankers .. and so on and so on .. So ..if you do this .. i would suggest sticking to characters who DO HAVE THEY-RE SKILL QUEUE ACTIVE and just to PVE .. imho ... or don't do it at all .. even though i would be sad face .. i would think it would be best overall for the community Just because i am blond does not make me stoopid !
Genji Tanakara Quantum Investment Group 3	Posted - 2016.04.10 07:52:46 - [725] - Quote Yea i'm totally against this. If I wanted to play a traditional MMO i'll play WoW or Guildwars. If I want to play eve i'll play eve damn it! Stop destroying the foundations of SP gain! First it was the BS with skill injectors/extractors and now dailies that reward SP?? Sadly this is going to get implemented if we protest or not, just like before. How about working to fix broken aspects of the game before you go on the crazy train!!
Gator1 Federal Organization for Outerspace Freedom Circle-Of-Two 13	Posted - 2016.04.10 07:59:27 - [726] - Quote "In the beginning they created the Universe. Then, they added skillboost opportunities. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."
Mane Frehm The Executioners Shadow Cartel 61	Posted - 2016.04.10 08:06:59 - [727] - Quote Sigh. Just sigh. Once upon a time skill points (SPs) could only be earned over time and were the testament to the choices you made (some good, some bad) as you and your character learned and grew in EVE. And we were told repeatedly that was one of the fundamental things that made EVE different. We started down the slippery slope with skill extractors and injectors. As a result, SPs are just another form of currency along with ISK and Aurum and LPs. And now we have this proposal - I am not surprised; just disappointed. I don't like this proposal as I don't believe that it will contribute to meaningful daily activity. I don't like it because it promotes a feeling of loss if you don't do it which is a crappy way to incent people to do things (I want people logging into EVE for positive reasons). I don't like it because its another idea dropped on the player base out of the blue with no background, rationale, analysis or logic provided. I could go on here but this horse died some time ago and I really shouldn't hit it any more. GÇ£This is the way the world ends Not with a bang but a whimper.GÇ¥
Corbie Black The xDEATHx Squadron Legion of xXDEATHXx 0	Posted - 2016.04.10 08:26:29 - [728] - Quote Dante deLio wrote: I suggest to give SP for killing ships in PvP either. Not in 22 hours but for each kill mail according to size of the ship was killed. Great idea! +1 Like Hope, that CCP's saw this suggestion.
Indahmawar Fazmarai 5025	Posted - 2016.04.10 09:06:29 - [729] - Quote Given my usual routine (killing many NPCs every day), this idea would mean that Ish would be saving herself to buy 1 skill injector each 30 days. That's one nice premium of some 15 milion ISK/day and I would like getting it... apparently unlike all the cough "PvErs" cough pretending that they would hate being rewarded for their alleged playstyle. I can figure how did this SP handout became a idea since CCP wants to reward people for being active, and there's only so many rewards they can give. ISK would not cut it, since PvErs already are earning ISK. Plus, would become another faucet in the game. Modules also woudn't cut it, either they would compete with players or would be useless junk. And there's already a module faucet via loot. LP could be an alternative, but then not all LP are equal as they are bound to NPC corporations. Should players be free to pick the corporation...? AUR are out of question since CCP sells AUR, so giving them for free is a no-no. This leaves CCP with skill points, which have the advantage that the "giving free SP to player" part has been coded into EVE for years. Also they escalate well: 10,000 SP mean more to a new player than to a veteran player, skill wise, but also mean more to a veteran player than to a new player in terms of saving skill injection costs. So, if rewarding players for being active ingame is a given, handing SP once a day is a good suggestion. We could discuss whether 10,000 SP is too little or too much, but supposedly CCP knows who exactly will be getting these rewards and what do they mean to those players.
Tomika Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 18	Posted - 2016.04.10 09:41:13 - [730] - Quote Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Mdm Curie wrote: I think this is great idea. Would reward those who do something. Going to a belt killing a tray and docking back up is not really doing something It literally is doing something.
Indahmawar Fazmarai 5026	Posted - 2016.04.10 09:50:12 - [731] - Quote Tomika wrote: Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Mdm Curie wrote: I think this is great idea. Would reward those who do something. Going to a belt killing a tray and docking back up is not really doing something It literally is doing something. At least is more than "doh, only got 20 minutes, won't bother loggin in to EVE since there's nothing I could accomplish in so little time".
Moac Tor Cyber Core Stain Confederation 476	Posted - 2016.04.10 09:54:40 - [732] - Quote The real reason it is being suggested is because CCP screwed up with extractors and have finally realised (despite being told months before release) that established players are simply plugging in +5s and making billions just sitting in a station and selling the SP. Even though this idea is complete garbage and the real reason it is being suggested is because of the failure of injectors, what is going to happen if you are an industrial character or station trader or many of the professions listed here - http://cdn1.eveonline.com/CareerGuide/EVECAREERSGUIDE.pdf Is only shooting at rats in a belt considered a worthy profession now.... Modulated ECM Effects An Alternative to Skill Trading
Indahmawar Fazmarai 5026	Posted - 2016.04.10 10:00:30 - [733] - Quote Moac Tor wrote: Te real reason it is being suggested is because CCP screwed up with extractors and have finally realised (despite being told months before release) that established players are simply plugging in +5s and making billions just sitting in a station and selling the SP. Even though this idea is complete garbage and the real reason it is being suggested is because of the failure of injectors, what is going to happen if you are an industrial character or station trader or many of the professions listed here - http://cdn1.eveonline.com/CareerGuide/EVECAREERSGUIDE.pdf Is only shooting at rats in a belt considered a worthy profession now.... Nice tinfoil, but daily rewards were suggested before skill trading was a thing. IIRC CSM IX already discussed this in 2014 and Serenity server (China) got it just last Xmas with and Advent Calendar event.
Big Lynx 5668	Posted - 2016.04.10 10:03:59 - [734] - Quote Tau Cabalander wrote: Cajun Waffles wrote: News flash: DAILIES are not required! If you feel that you are being forced to acquire an additional 4million skill points (total gained during the year) by doing dailies your whole argument is asinine! It's optional! Just like acquiring plex, extractors, etc. To keep up with the competition (that's everybody in EVE), you'll have to do them. Great BS. Nobody in the ENTIRE virtual and real world forces you to do the daily. There are simply no arguments against this. only salt and tears without a factual background. So much buttpain for 3mio SP per year (!) Grow up nerds.
beakerax Pator Tech School 253	Posted - 2016.04.10 10:15:27 - [735] - Quote Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote: Tomika wrote: It literally is doing something. At least is more than "doh, only got 20 minutes, won't bother loggin in to EVE since there's nothing I could accomplish in so little time". So you support dailies because they will encourage you to log in when you don't actually have time to play?
Dave stark 7923	Posted - 2016.04.10 10:15:53 - [736] - Quote Big Lynx wrote: Tau Cabalander wrote: Cajun Waffles wrote: News flash: DAILIES are not required! If you feel that you are being forced to acquire an additional 4million skill points (total gained during the year) by doing dailies your whole argument is asinine! It's optional! Just like acquiring plex, extractors, etc. To keep up with the competition (that's everybody in EVE), you'll have to do them. Great BS. Nobody in the ENTIRE virtual and real world forces you to do the daily. There are simply no arguments against this. only salt and tears without a factual background. So much buttpain for 3mio SP per year (!) Grow up nerds. so, because you're not being forced to do them we should completely ignore that they want to implement it in the worst way possible and shouldn't try to at least make it a half decent system if we're going to have it forced up on us? i really don't understand logic like yours - "you don't have to do it, therefore any suggestion of how to make it not suck a donkey ** is crying, get over it!" yes. lets flood the game with mechanics because you're not forced to participate in any of them - except you will be when every mechanic is crap because nobody bothered to suggest ideas to improve them because you don't have to do any of them. at the end of the day it's irrelevant if you have to do them or not. ccp adding ** features that aren't mandatory is how we end up with a game full of crap that nobody wants to play.
Big Lynx 5668	Posted - 2016.04.10 10:34:34 - [737] - Quote Dave Stark wrote: so, because you're not being forced to do them we should completely ignore that they want to implement it in the worst way possible and shouldn't try to at least make it a half decent system if we're going to have it forced up on us? Nah, you are putting words in my mouth I didn't say. The system how the SPs will be earned needs strong improvement. But I think Devs are aware of that. The argument that Eve goes more and more WOW is just ridiculous. And that players are forced to do it just because it opens the daily opportunity is ridiculous as well, just infantile. Dave Stark wrote: i really don't understand logic like yours - "you don't have to do it, therefore any suggestion of how to make it not suck a donkey ** is crying, get over it!" yes. lets flood the game with mechanics because you're not forced to participate in any of them again, putting words in my mouth. Dave Stark wrote: at the end of the day it's irrelevant if you have to do them or not. ccp adding ** features that aren't mandatory is how we end up with a game full of crap that nobody wants to play. Sorry, I have to disagree strongly. Many players resubbed recently and the numbers are growing. Just because of daily opportunity Eve is not full of crap. You sound very pessimistic. However, I have to admit, Ive been against SP Trading, that was a huge sacrifice of an USP for more rl profit on the bank account of the company CCP. But thinking twice, understandable, if you look at plex sales since SP Trading release.
Dave Stark 7923	Posted - 2016.04.10 10:37:44 - [738] - Quote Big Lynx wrote: Many players resubbed recently and the numbers are growing. which also has absolutely nothing to do with this.
Big Lynx 5668	Posted - 2016.04.10 10:40:17 - [739] - Quote Dave Stark wrote: Big Lynx wrote: Many players resubbed recently and the numbers are growing. which also has absolutely nothing to do with this. Correct. And a daily is no reason for quitting eve.
Lugh Crow-Slave 1836	Posted - 2016.04.10 10:44:25 - [740] - Quote Corbie Black wrote: Dante deLio wrote: I suggest to give SP for killing ships in PvP either. Not in 22 hours but for each kill mail according to size of the ship was killed. Great idea! +1 Like Hope, that CCP's saw this suggestion. because this isn't exploitable Citadel worm hole tax
Dror Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 63	Posted - 2016.04.10 10:45:26 - [741] - Quote Dave Stark wrote: Big Lynx wrote: Tau Cabalander wrote: Cajun Waffles wrote: News flash: DAILIES are not required! If you feel that you are being forced to acquire an additional 4million skill points (total gained during the year) by doing dailies your whole argument is asinine! It's optional! Just like acquiring plex, extractors, etc. To keep up with the competition (that's everybody in EVE), you'll have to do them. Great BS. Nobody in the ENTIRE virtual and real world forces you to do the daily. There are simply no arguments against this. only salt and tears without a factual background. So much buttpain for 3mio SP per year (!) Grow up nerds. so, because you're not being forced to do them we should completely ignore that they want to implement it in the worst way possible and shouldn't try to at least make it a half decent system if we're going to have it forced up on us? i really don't understand logic like yours - "you don't have to do it, therefore any suggestion of how to make it not suck a donkey ** is crying, get over it!" yes. lets flood the game with mechanics because you're not forced to participate in any of them - except you will be when every mechanic is crap because nobody bothered to suggest ideas to improve them because you don't have to do any of them. at the end of the day it's irrelevant if you have to do them or not. ccp adding ** features that aren't mandatory is how we end up with a game full of crap that nobody wants to play. It's the most simple implementation. Something "so forced/appealing" should require more than just hopping over to a belt? "SP is helpful for the game?" Here's all of the research on motivation -- it says the opposite! What purpose does it serve, then? Starter corps are non-competitive. Sov is unchallenged. "Fix sov!" you say? Remove SP.
Big Lynx 5670	Posted - 2016.04.10 10:46:30 - [742] - Quote People who are moaning that they "have to" log in everyday to compete with others in this questionable skillpoint-race should immediatly switch of their computers, go out and in a silent moment start to address a question to themselves: "Do I really want to let a pc game control my every day life?" (indepentently from the question how CCP will assemble this mechanic)
Dave Stark 7925	Posted - 2016.04.10 10:48:12 - [743] - Quote Big Lynx wrote: Dave Stark wrote: Big Lynx wrote: Many players resubbed recently and the numbers are growing. which also has absolutely nothing to do with this. Correct. And a daily is no reason for quitting eve. it's also not a reason to let ccp add a system that's flawed in so many ways. just because it's not a reason to quit, isn't a reason to accept mediocrity.
Lan Wang Knights of the Posing Meat FETID 2637	Posted - 2016.04.10 10:49:39 - [744] - Quote id like to see the xp popup for every shot landed on a target, with with a big "Great!" on screen after the target has died, it would go great with the gong sound and be super immersive FETID now recruiting pvp pilots & corporations \| lowsec pvp & piracy - Join FETID Loyalist to Angel Cartel & Serpentis
George Gouillot Black Fox Marauders 99	Posted - 2016.04.10 10:50:48 - [745] - Quote Big Lynx wrote: Tau Cabalander wrote: Cajun Waffles wrote: News flash: DAILIES are not required! If you feel that you are being forced to acquire an additional 4million skill points (total gained during the year) by doing dailies your whole argument is asinine! It's optional! Just like acquiring plex, extractors, etc. To keep up with the competition (that's everybody in EVE), you'll have to do them. Great BS. Nobody in the ENTIRE virtual and real world forces you to do the daily. There are simply no arguments against this. only salt and tears without a factual background. So much buttpain for 3mio SP per year (!) Grow up nerds. This depends a bit on the perspective. SP is a commodity now, but it has different price tag depending on your stats. If a character has more than 80 mio SP, the 3.98 mln additional SP that can be theoretically achieved by daylies represent an ISK equivalent of app. 16 bln, which is considerably more than the cost of the sub. This is an extremely high incentive for doing something that you do not like to do. Which will make a lot of players hate it.
Big Lynx 5670	Posted - 2016.04.10 10:50:59 - [746] - Quote Dave Stark wrote: Big Lynx wrote: Dave Stark wrote: Big Lynx wrote: Many players resubbed recently and the numbers are growing. which also has absolutely nothing to do with this. Correct. And a daily is no reason for quitting eve. it's also not a reason to let ccp add a system that's flawed in so many ways. just because it's not a reason to quit, isn't a reason to accept mediocrity. Sure, I agree with in that point.
Kierene Hilthene Kierene Hilthene Corporation 0	Posted - 2016.04.10 10:51:26 - [747] - Quote I actually think it would be more psychologically impacting to reward ISK than SP. SP can be created for doing nothing. ISK takes effort. The same for SP could be said for other, "Cash Shop" worthy items (Aurum). All you need is money, where other, such as mineral-based, items, do not. So as long as you put things that (could) have a real life money alternative for dailies, I think the impact may not be as great as it seems. As long as we know that ISK, normal manufactured items, aren't part of that. As after all, doing so would start to change the dynamic of EVE... Skill points, to me, have a real life alternative (buy another account + skill extractors) IF they are time limited like a daily system. Grinding a rock for SP is not replicable by cash, on the other hand, because that is far more "endless". Things that typically are generated into the game by risking your ship at some point at least, are also not currently replicable by cash. But special edition items, clothing vanity items, things like that, would be fine for dailies too, while without changing the structure of the game too much. Basically, I'm saying if the real life people can spend real life money to catch up with the rewards of dailies, and we be careful to not put the wrong type of reward in, it may not be so bad?
Esrevid Nekkeg Justified and Ancient 1618	Posted - 2016.04.10 10:56:22 - [748] - Quote Big Lynx wrote: Dave Stark wrote: Big Lynx wrote: Many players resubbed recently and the numbers are growing. which also has absolutely nothing to do with this. Correct. And a daily is no reason for quitting eve. If you are opposed to this, as I am, it might very well be the straw that breaks the camels back. Here I used to have a sig of our old Camper in space. Now it is disregarded as being the wrong format. Looking out the window I see one thing: Nothing wrong with the format of our Camper! Silly CCP......
Dror Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 63	Posted - 2016.04.10 10:59:27 - [749] - Quote The first 15 or so pages of this had no decent critique against the idea. What's the issue now? SP is being "created out of nowhere"? So what? Checked out the retention claims? Ready to imply that SP has nothing to do with retention even though the mechanic keeps getting patched? It's "forced"? If SP is so super that missing just a little makes players feel awful, how do fresh subs feel? "SP is helpful for the game?" Here's all of the research on motivation -- it says the opposite! What purpose does it serve, then? Starter corps are non-competitive. Sov is unchallenged. "Fix sov!" you say? Remove SP.
beakerax Pator Tech School 256	Posted - 2016.04.10 11:11:40 - [750] - Quote Dror wrote: The first 15 or so pages of this had no decent critique against the idea. What's the issue now? People who have experienced dailies in other games have made their concerns clear. As for arguments in favour of dailies? So far I've seen "new player" fallacies and posts that apparently support this concept out of spite. Given that Rise's new method of persuasion on these matters is to do nothing, I don't see much reason to effortpost.
Lugh Crow-Slave 1836	Posted - 2016.04.10 11:14:12 - [751] - Quote Dror wrote: The first 15 or so pages of this had no decent critique against the idea. What's the issue now? SP is being "created out of nowhere"? So what? Checked out the retention claims? Ready to imply that SP has nothing to do with retention even though the mechanic keeps getting patched? It's "forced"? If SP is so super that missing just a little makes players feel awful, how do fresh subs feel? why are so many ppl defending this hung up on the SP the SP is not the issue here the issue is CCP telling you how to play their game the issue is CCP just seeing you as a log in number the issue is EVE is a game you can play at your own pace with out ever feeling you need to log in the issue is making ppl want to log in for such a hollow reason is LAZY and if we reward them for being lazy they will keep being lazy Citadel worm hole tax
Iam Widdershins Puppies and Christmas 904	Posted - 2016.04.10 11:14:33 - [752] - Quote After thinking about this a couple days, I think I can give some feedback. This should diminish over time, perhaps at the same rate that skill injectors' effectiveness does. I would also be all for having the cooldown timer apply per account, rather than letting every single character slot on every single account do this every day. Here's my justification: If it takes you 2 minutes to log in, find and kill an NPC, and log out, that's circa 200 million ISK per hour of returns you're getting during those 2 minutes. If you have 2 or 3 accounts, you are strongly incentivized to doing this every single day on all 6, 9... 12? characters. That's the natural course to take when min-maxing, and it's not fun gameplay. It just isn't. How could it be? It's mostly logging in and out and warping, and it's about as boring as gameplay can possibly get outside of watching ice miners cycle. Now, I'm not totally against this idea. It's fantastic for new players: that's like three hours of training time a day ez. It's also good for older players: having other slots on your accounts, you can give them that bonus sp and dump that sp into basic skills like industrials, scanning, trade, touchplanet, etc. But being strongly incentivized to do this on every single character on your account, every day, from the very beginning, is gonna grow old pretty darn fast. Lobbying for your right to delete your signature
Lugh Crow-Slave 1836	Posted - 2016.04.10 11:16:46 - [753] - Quote Iam Widdershins wrote: After thinking about this a couple days, I think I can give some feedback. This should diminish over time, perhaps at the same rate that skill injectors' effectiveness does. I would also be all for having the cooldown timer apply per account, rather than letting every single character slot on every single account do this every day. Here's my justification: If it takes you 2 minutes to log in, find and kill an NPC, and log out, that's circa 200 million ISK per hour of returns you're getting during those 2 minutes. If you have 2 or 3 accounts, you are strongly incentivized to doing this every single day on all 6, 9... 12? characters. That's the natural course to take when min-maxing, and it's not fun gameplay. It just isn't. How could it be? It's mostly logging in and out and warping, and it's about as boring as gameplay can possibly get outside of watching ice miners cycle. Now, I'm not totally against this idea. It's fantastic for new players: that's like three hours of training time a day ez. It's also good for older players: having other slots on your accounts, you can give them that bonus sp and dump that sp into basic skills like industrials, scanning, trade, touchplanet, etc. But being strongly incentivized to do this on every single character on your account, every day, from the very beginning, is gonna grow old pretty darn fast. Except CCP isn't thinking of game balance they are just wanting the number of accounts logging in every day to go up Citadel worm hole tax
Krevnos Back Door Burglars The Otherworld 132	Posted - 2016.04.10 11:16:48 - [754] - Quote Dror wrote: The first 15 or so pages of this had no decent critique against the idea. What's the issue now? SP is being "created out of nowhere"? So what? Checked out the retention claims? Ready to imply that SP has nothing to do with retention even though the mechanic keeps getting patched? It's "forced"? If SP is so super that missing just a little makes players feel awful, how do fresh subs feel? No, the issue is that many players will feel a need to adopt a certain game style based on what menial tasks CCP has laid out for them on a daily basis, rather than enjoying the freedom of the game. This particularly applies to poorer players who have more to gain by it. Having a series of daily tasks laid out by the developer is not conducive to an enjoyable game experience, rather pushing players who would otherwise take the day off to log in just to shoot a rat. It also impacts on regular players' game time if they feel the need to engage in this nonsense to keep up with everyone else. i.e. Many players will be performing mundane daily tasks rather than enjoying the freedom of the game. This is Theme Park MMO material. Nobody is set to gain from this and everyone loses out, either on rewards or on their freedom of choice. CCP Rise has clearly forgotten what Eve is about since he joined the development team.
Dani Gallar University of Caille Gallente Federation 24	Posted - 2016.04.10 11:19:39 - [755] - Quote For me the main problem is that there no variety. Instead of having exactly one way of getting the bonus SP (and a way that's far to easy) it would be better if several more complicated options to get bonus SP where implemented.
beakerax Pator Tech School 257	Posted - 2016.04.10 11:20:59 - [756] - Quote Krevnos wrote: CCP Rise has clearly forgotten what Eve is about since he joined the development team. I doubt he thought this up. Remember Rise, the safeword is "orthodox".
Lugh Crow-Slave 1836	Posted - 2016.04.10 11:21:19 - [757] - Quote Dani Gallar wrote: For me the main problem is that there no variety. Instead of having exactly one way of getting the bonus SP (and a way that's far to easy) it would be better if several more complicated options to get bonus SP where implemented. why so instead of needing to do one meaningless task i have to do several Citadel worm hole tax
Cristian Ambaek Ciggy Butt Brains. ChaosTheory. 0	Posted - 2016.04.10 11:26:02 - [758] - Quote That sounds like a horrible idea, EVE Online is not WoW. Now we need small side "quests" to gain xtra daily SP's? NO thank you.
Big Lynx 5670	Posted - 2016.04.10 11:26:42 - [759] - Quote Krevnos wrote: Dror wrote: The first 15 or so pages of this had no decent critique against the idea. What's the issue now? SP is being "created out of nowhere"? So what? Checked out the retention claims? Ready to imply that SP has nothing to do with retention even though the mechanic keeps getting patched? It's "forced"? If SP is so super that missing just a little makes players feel awful, how do fresh subs feel? No, the issue is that many players will feel a need to adopt a certain game style based on what menial tasks CCP has laid out for them on a daily basis, rather than enjoying the freedom of the game. This particularly applies to poorer players who have more to gain by it. Having a series of daily tasks laid out by the developer is not conducive to an enjoyable game experience, rather pushing players who would otherwise take the day off to log in just to shoot a rat. It also impacts on regular players' game time if they feel the need to engage in this nonsense to keep up with everyone else. again Big Lynx wrote: People who are moaning that they "have to" log in everyday to compete with others in this questionable skillpoint-race should immediatly switch of their computers, go out and in a silent moment start to address a question to themselves: "Do I really want to let a pc game control my every day life?" (indepentently from the question how CCP will assemble this mechanic)
Lugh Crow-Slave 1838	Posted - 2016.04.10 11:28:37 - [760] - Quote Big Lynx wrote: Krevnos wrote: Dror wrote: The first 15 or so pages of this had no decent critique against the idea. What's the issue now? SP is being "created out of nowhere"? So what? Checked out the retention claims? Ready to imply that SP has nothing to do with retention even though the mechanic keeps getting patched? It's "forced"? If SP is so super that missing just a little makes players feel awful, how do fresh subs feel? No, the issue is that many players will feel a need to adopt a certain game style based on what menial tasks CCP has laid out for them on a daily basis, rather than enjoying the freedom of the game. This particularly applies to poorer players who have more to gain by it. Having a series of daily tasks laid out by the developer is not conducive to an enjoyable game experience, rather pushing players who would otherwise take the day off to log in just to shoot a rat. It also impacts on regular players' game time if they feel the need to engage in this nonsense to keep up with everyone else. again Big Lynx wrote: People who are moaning that they "have to" log in everyday to compete with others in this questionable skillpoint-race should immediatly switch of their computers, go out and in a silent moment start to address a question to themselves: "Do I really want to let a pc game control my every day life?" (indepentently from the question how CCP will assemble this mechanic) its not ppl moaning that they have to log in its ppl upset at an idea that is blatant manipulation to get them to log in by making them feel like the missed out if they dont Citadel worm hole tax
beakerax Pator Tech School 257	Posted - 2016.04.10 11:31:26 - [761] - Quote Big Lynx wrote: "Do I really want to let a pc game control my every day life?" this is the central design conceit of dailies and other Skinner box "gameplay"
Dave Stark 7927	Posted - 2016.04.10 11:32:53 - [762] - Quote beakerax wrote: Big Lynx wrote: "Do I really want to let a pc game control my every day life?" this is the central design conceit of dailies and other Skinner box "gameplay" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWtvrPTbQ_c for people who have no idea what you're talking about.
Shallanna Yassavi Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 120	Posted - 2016.04.10 11:34:34 - [763] - Quote Big Lynx wrote: People who are moaning that they "have to" log in everyday to compete with others in this questionable skillpoint-race should immediatly switch of their computers, go out and in a silent moment start to address a question to themselves: "Do I really want to let a pc game control my every day life?" (indepentently from the question how CCP will assemble this mechanic) If this goes in the way the original post says it will, everyone's going to get a slow, painful lesson. A signature :o
Big Lynx 5670	Posted - 2016.04.10 11:35:16 - [764] - Quote beakerax wrote: Big Lynx wrote: "Do I really want to let a pc game control my every day life?" this is the central design conceit of dailies and other Skinner box "gameplay" I would agree if ccp replaced skilling over time completely with SP grinding through dailies, weeklies etc. .. That would be the overkill
Lugh Crow-Slave 1838	Posted - 2016.04.10 11:37:22 - [765] - Quote Big Lynx wrote: beakerax wrote: Big Lynx wrote: "Do I really want to let a pc game control my every day life?" this is the central design conceit of dailies and other Skinner box "gameplay" I would agree if ccp replaced skilling over time completely with SP grinding through dailies, weeklies etc. .. That would be the overkill they dont need to completely replace it with dailies ect for it to be over kill its a game design that has no place in the player created world of eve Tell me why do you think this is a good idea other than "its not a bad idea" Citadel worm hole tax
Tristan Agion Viziam Amarr Empire 127	Posted - 2016.04.10 11:38:10 - [766] - Quote We need to remove the "it's fantastic for newbies" aspect from the discussion. It simply is not. What is fantastic for newbies is gaining more SP faster, somehow, because EVE is just about the worst game I have ever seen concerning locking away content from new players. But that does not mean that a particular method of giving nebwies more SP faster is any good. There will be good ways and bad ways of doing that. And this proposal by CCP is a really dumb way of doing it. I understand very much the frustration of newbies with the skill queue, and how they will clutch at anything that might deliver some more SP to them. I'm still at that stage myself... But this desperate craving for SP should not cloud one's judgement concerning the means by which the SP is offered. If some newbie (or for that matter vet) wants to argue that logging in daily to find a belt rat to pop is their idea of getting engaged with EVE, then fine - that is the discussion we should be having. But we should not be discussing how it would be good for newbies to get more SP. That's no excuse for introducing this poor mechanism to EVE.
Dave stark 7928	Posted - 2016.04.10 11:43:08 - [767] - Quote Big Lynx wrote: beakerax wrote: Big Lynx wrote: "Do I really want to let a pc game control my every day life?" this is the central design conceit of dailies and other Skinner box "gameplay" I would agree if ccp replaced skilling over time completely with SP grinding through dailies, weeklies etc. .. That would be the overkill it's like a 15% bonus, that's pretty substantial. more than 15% if you don't have implants.
Lugh Crow-Slave 1838	Posted - 2016.04.10 11:50:33 - [768] - Quote Tristan Agion wrote: We need to remove the "it's fantastic for newbies" aspect from the discussion. It simply is not. What is fantastic for newbies is gaining more SP faster, somehow, because EVE is just about the worst game I have ever seen concerning locking away content from new players. But that does not mean that a particular method of giving nebwies more SP faster is any good. There will be good ways and bad ways of doing that. And this proposal by CCP is a really dumb way of doing it. I understand very much the frustration of newbies with the skill queue, and how they will clutch at anything that might deliver some more SP to them. I'm still at that stage myself... But this desperate craving for SP should not cloud one's judgement concerning the means by which the SP is offered. If some newbie (or for that matter vet) wants to argue that logging in daily to find a belt rat to pop is their idea of getting engaged with EVE, then fine - that is the discussion we should be having. But we should not be discussing how it would be good for newbies to get more SP. That's no excuse for introducing this poor mechanism to EVE. The best thing to do would be to start players out with the mandatory skills like engineering rather than forcing them to train skills like this Citadel worm hole tax
Dror Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 63	Posted - 2016.04.10 11:55:32 - [769] - Quote beakerax wrote: Dror wrote: The first 15 or so pages of this had no decent critique against the idea. What's the issue now? People who have experienced dailies in other games have made their concerns clear. As for arguments in favour of dailies? So far I've seen "new player" fallacies and posts that apparently support this concept out of spite. Given that Rise's new method of persuasion on these matters is to do nothing, I don't see much reason to effortpost. Dailies from other games don't give the same benefit. Rep is uninteresting. Setting up "VIP Elite" points to cash out for some stats or whatever is as well, but we already have that with SP and real money, so why not get some for basically free? "Not feeling the idea? Don't do it," is valid. If players can't miss a few sessions of free SP, why do they have no say for how little SP newbies have? Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: why are so many ppl defending this hung up on the SP the SP is not the issue here the issue is CCP telling you how to play their game the issue is CCP just seeing you as a log in number the issue is EVE is a game you can play at your own pace with out ever feeling you need to log in the issue is making ppl want to log in for such a hollow reason is LAZY and if we reward them for being lazy they will keep being lazy It's A feature, with a single and immediately-completed task (that also happens to improve the SP situation, especially for fresh subs -- which is obviously the real purpose). "SP is no the issue"? It is. Figure out what gets fresh subs to retain (surely with scientific backing, which are plentiful in this post history), then maybe this thread's criticisms have some validity. So, every character only does the best ISK income method or equivalent? Negative. Krevnos wrote: No, the issue is that many players will feel a need to adopt a certain game style based on what menial tasks CCP has laid out for them on a daily basis, rather than enjoying the freedom of the game. This particularly applies to poorer players who have more to gain by it. Having a series of daily tasks laid out by the developer is not conducive to an enjoyable game experience, rather pushing players who would otherwise take the day off to log in just to shoot a rat. It also impacts on regular players' game time if they feel the need to engage in this nonsense to keep up with everyone else. i.e. Many players will be performing mundane daily tasks rather than enjoying the freedom of the game. This is Theme Park MMO material. Nobody is set to gain from this and everyone loses out, either on rewards or on their freedom of choice. CCP Rise has clearly forgotten what Eve is about since he joined the development team. See above for just about every point. "Play more and get more" is ordinarily the mantra with MMOs. It's perfect, because status should be associated with playing the game or skill, and not paying for it. That all has nothing to do with "theme park" MMO design, as criticized, because it's true for both. The obvious gain is the benefit of extra SP. If that's non-intriguing, then don't do it. If SP has become such a feature that it's ***** with the community, newbie or vet (and in any manner), it should just go. Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:** its not ppl moaning that they have to log in its ppl upset at an idea that is blatant manipulation to get them to log in by making them feel like the missed out if they dont Logic "SP is helpful for the game?" Here's all of the research on motivation -- it says the opposite! What purpose does it serve, then? Starter corps are non-competitive. Sov is unchallenged. "Fix sov!" you say? Remove SP.
beakerax Pator Tech School 258	Posted - 2016.04.10 12:00:53 - [770] - Quote guys I found the EA exec
Dave Stark 7928	Posted - 2016.04.10 12:03:35 - [771] - Quote Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Tristan Agion wrote: We need to remove the "it's fantastic for newbies" aspect from the discussion. It simply is not. What is fantastic for newbies is gaining more SP faster, somehow, because EVE is just about the worst game I have ever seen concerning locking away content from new players. But that does not mean that a particular method of giving nebwies more SP faster is any good. There will be good ways and bad ways of doing that. And this proposal by CCP is a really dumb way of doing it. I understand very much the frustration of newbies with the skill queue, and how they will clutch at anything that might deliver some more SP to them. I'm still at that stage myself... But this desperate craving for SP should not cloud one's judgement concerning the means by which the SP is offered. If some newbie (or for that matter vet) wants to argue that logging in daily to find a belt rat to pop is their idea of getting engaged with EVE, then fine - that is the discussion we should be having. But we should not be discussing how it would be good for newbies to get more SP. That's no excuse for introducing this poor mechanism to EVE. The best thing to do would be to start players out with the mandatory skills like engineering rather than forcing them to train skills like this along with making content people want to log in for, rather than bribing them with SP. lets not get too crazy, though. we're getting daily quests anyway.
Lugh Crow-Slave 1839	Posted - 2016.04.10 12:06:24 - [772] - Quote Dave Stark wrote: Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Tristan Agion wrote: We need to remove the "it's fantastic for newbies" aspect from the discussion. It simply is not. What is fantastic for newbies is gaining more SP faster, somehow, because EVE is just about the worst game I have ever seen concerning locking away content from new players. But that does not mean that a particular method of giving nebwies more SP faster is any good. There will be good ways and bad ways of doing that. And this proposal by CCP is a really dumb way of doing it. I understand very much the frustration of newbies with the skill queue, and how they will clutch at anything that might deliver some more SP to them. I'm still at that stage myself... But this desperate craving for SP should not cloud one's judgement concerning the means by which the SP is offered. If some newbie (or for that matter vet) wants to argue that logging in daily to find a belt rat to pop is their idea of getting engaged with EVE, then fine - that is the discussion we should be having. But we should not be discussing how it would be good for newbies to get more SP. That's no excuse for introducing this poor mechanism to EVE. The best thing to do would be to start players out with the mandatory skills like engineering rather than forcing them to train skills like this along with making content people want to log in for, rather than bribing them with SP. lets not get too crazy, though. we're getting daily quests anyway. There is already plenty of that the problem is showing new players how to find it EDIT Or hell even some vets don't know how to Citadel worm hole tax
Indahmawar Fazmarai 5026	Posted - 2016.04.10 12:17:03 - [773] - Quote beakerax wrote: Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote: Tomika wrote: It literally is doing something. At least is more than "doh, only got 20 minutes, won't bother loggin in to EVE since there's nothing I could accomplish in so little time". So you support dailies because they will encourage you to log in when you don't actually have time to play? They change the definition of "time to play" from ~1 hour to ~20 minutes. That could be useful to me on certain occasions, and to some people also will make sense to make a quickie for 10,000 SP. And in any circunstances it makes PvE more rewarding for the same unfun.
Lugh Crow-Slave 1839	Posted - 2016.04.10 12:25:55 - [774] - Quote Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote: beakerax wrote: Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote: Tomika wrote: It literally is doing something. At least is more than "doh, only got 20 minutes, won't bother loggin in to EVE since there's nothing I could accomplish in so little time". So you support dailies because they will encourage you to log in when you don't actually have time to play? They change the definition of "time to play" from ~1 hour to ~20 minutes. That could be useful to me on certain occasions, and to some people also will make sense to make a quickie for 10,000 SP. And in any circunstances it makes PvE more rewarding for the same unfun. You mean from ~1 hr to -2 minuts And pve doesn't need to be any more rewarding is already what most ppl do in the game CCP should not attempt to make any choice in gameplay inherentlybetter than another and they should not give a pair any definitive goal Citadel worm hole tax
Dror Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 64	Posted - 2016.04.10 12:39:27 - [775] - Quote Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: You mean from ~1 hr to -2 minuts And pve doesn't need to be any more rewarding is already what most ppl do in the game CCP should not attempt to make any choice in gameplay inherentlybetter than another and they should not give a pair any definitive goal More players logged on is more of a potential fleet. End of discussion. "SP is helpful for the game?" Here's all of the research on motivation -- it says the opposite! What purpose does it serve, then? Starter corps are non-competitive. Sov is unchallenged. "Fix sov!" you say? Remove SP.
Lugh Crow-Slave 1839	Posted - 2016.04.10 12:46:09 - [776] - Quote Dror wrote: Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: You mean from ~1 hr to -2 minuts And pve doesn't need to be any more rewarding is already what most ppl do in the game CCP should not attempt to make any choice in gameplay inherentlybetter than another and they should not give a pair any definitive goal More players logged on is more of a potential fleet. End of discussion. OMG you're right how could I have been so blind that really is all that matters Well screw dailies what will really get ppl online is a Yulia arena Citadel worm hole tax
Lan Wang Knights of the Posing Meat FETID 2639	Posted - 2016.04.10 12:48:33 - [777] - Quote Dror wrote: Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: You mean from ~1 hr to -2 minuts And pve doesn't need to be any more rewarding is already what most ppl do in the game CCP should not attempt to make any choice in gameplay inherentlybetter than another and they should not give a pair any definitive goal More players logged on is more of a potential fleet. End of discussion. yeah sure because nobody really cares about a fleet "i just logged on to do my daily then going out, sorry" FETID now recruiting pvp pilots & corporations \| lowsec pvp & piracy - Join FETID Loyalist to Angel Cartel & Serpentis
Lugh Crow-Slave 1839	Posted - 2016.04.10 12:51:21 - [778] - Quote Lan Wang wrote: Dror wrote: Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: You mean from ~1 hr to -2 minuts And pve doesn't need to be any more rewarding is already what most ppl do in the game CCP should not attempt to make any choice in gameplay inherentlybetter than another and they should not give a pair any definitive goal More players logged on is more of a potential fleet. End of discussion. yeah sure because nobody really cares about a fleet "i just logged on to do my daily then going out, sorry" What this never happens in any other game with dailies? Citadel worm hole tax
Dave Stark 7928	Posted - 2016.04.10 12:54:31 - [779] - Quote Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Lan Wang wrote: Dror wrote: Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: You mean from ~1 hr to -2 minuts And pve doesn't need to be any more rewarding is already what most ppl do in the game CCP should not attempt to make any choice in gameplay inherentlybetter than another and they should not give a pair any definitive goal More players logged on is more of a potential fleet. End of discussion. yeah sure because nobody really cares about a fleet "i just logged on to do my daily then going out, sorry" What this never happens in any other game with dailies? no, absolutely not. WoW still has 10m subscribers.
Lan Wang Knights of the Posing Meat FETID 2639	Posted - 2016.04.10 12:55:19 - [780] - Quote Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Lan Wang wrote: Dror wrote: Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: You mean from ~1 hr to -2 minuts And pve doesn't need to be any more rewarding is already what most ppl do in the game CCP should not attempt to make any choice in gameplay inherentlybetter than another and they should not give a pair any definitive goal More players logged on is more of a potential fleet. End of discussion. yeah sure because nobody really cares about a fleet "i just logged on to do my daily then going out, sorry" What this never happens in any other game with dailies? nah not really because the bots have already done the dailies right after downtime FETID now recruiting pvp pilots & corporations \| lowsec pvp & piracy - Join FETID Loyalist to Angel Cartel & Serpentis
Aluanna Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 14	Posted - 2016.04.10 12:57:26 - [781] - Quote Honestly I'm on the fence about this.. Personally, I don't like the pressure to log in daily.. I'd much rather see this as a weekly thing that requires more effort, but also gives more reward.. Assuming it's going to be implemented.. Like every 6 days you log on and kill X NPC ships OR player ships, OR mine X ore (Not a checklist, just alternatives for those who don't partake in PVE) And once that is done you get X free SP (say 50k) It's just like the dailies, only the pressure is to log on weekly and put a little effort in, not daily find a random anomaly, warp in, kill one ship, dock up and log out.. Ideas for missile launchers to make firing missiles more interesting/rewarding
Lugh Crow-Slave 1839	Posted - 2016.04.10 13:07:28 - [782] - Quote Aluanna wrote: Honestly I'm on the fence about this.. Personally, I don't like the pressure to log in daily.. I'd much rather see this as a weekly thing that requires more effort, but also gives more reward.. Assuming it's going to be implemented.. Like every 6 days you log on and kill X NPC ships OR player ships, OR mine X ore (Not a checklist, just alternatives for those who don't partake in PVE) And once that is done you get X free SP (say 50k) It's just like the dailies, only the pressure is to log on weekly and put a little effort in, not daily find a random anomaly, warp in, kill one ship, dock up and log out.. So you understand the concept behind dailies in eve is faulty at best but you want the bonuse XP I think this sums up the reasons ppl support this idea Citadel worm hole tax
T-Jay Charante Black Sun Industry and Research 30	Posted - 2016.04.10 13:33:04 - [783] - Quote I originally thought this was a terrible idea, this has no place in Eve etc. agreeing with many in the thread. Over the past few days my opinion has changed. After watching various streams lately, Spectre fleet, Boat, Zarvox to name a few, and how much fun Eve can be when you hit low sec and null. This is what Eve is about and I started to wonder exactly how many new people that try the game actually stick around long enough to experience any of it. Would this be the carrot that gets newer players to stick around long enough to experience the better parts of the game? I think it could well be. Eve is a wonderful game, people just don't get the chance to see its full potential and that's a shame. This is not only about new players, we all have 3 capsuleers per account and 2 of them are rarely used other than for afk activities. With Eve having one of the best character creations out there, it seems such a waste. This would allow us to have more fun with our other 2, rather than see them rot away in some Captain Quarters. Dailies are horrible, but as far as being rewarded for these, there is no game out there than offers a more valuable reward. The positives to this new feature heavily outweigh the negatives. People arguing about how unfair it is if they can't login every day etc. I understand but would you rather see 20k online when you do log in, or potentially 40k+?
Lugh Crow-Slave 1841	Posted - 2016.04.10 13:42:01 - [784] - Quote T-Jay Charante wrote: I originally thought this was a terrible idea, this has no place in Eve etc. agreeing with many in the thread. Over the past few days my opinion has changed. After watching various streams lately, Spectre fleet, Boat, Zarvox to name a few, and how much fun Eve can be when you hit low sec and null. This is what Eve is about and I started to wonder exactly how many new people that try the game actually stick around long enough to experience any of it. Would this be the carrot that gets newer players to stick around long enough to experience the better parts of the game? I think it could well be. Eve is a wonderful game, people just don't get the chance to see its full potential and that's a shame. This is not only about new players, we all have 3 capsuleers per account and 2 of them are rarely used other than for afk activities. With Eve having one of the best character creations out there, it seems such a waste. This would allow us to have more fun with our other 2, rather than see them rot away in some Captain Quarters. Dailies are horrible, but as far as being rewarded for these, there is no game out there than offers a more valuable reward. The positives to this new feature heavily outweigh the negatives. People arguing about how unfair it is if they can't login every day etc. I understand but would you rather see 20k online when you do log in, or potentially 40k+? There are plenty of ppl who have played eve for years that never leave hs and there are players from a day one that get pulled into null. It's not time players need but direction and go kill one belt rat is not direction Citadel worm hole tax
T-Jay Charante Black Sun Industry and Research 30	Posted - 2016.04.10 13:46:11 - [785] - Quote Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: T-Jay Charante wrote: I originally thought this was a terrible idea, this has no place in Eve etc. agreeing with many in the thread. Over the past few days my opinion has changed. After watching various streams lately, Spectre fleet, Boat, Zarvox to name a few, and how much fun Eve can be when you hit low sec and null. This is what Eve is about and I started to wonder exactly how many new people that try the game actually stick around long enough to experience any of it. Would this be the carrot that gets newer players to stick around long enough to experience the better parts of the game? I think it could well be. Eve is a wonderful game, people just don't get the chance to see its full potential and that's a shame. This is not only about new players, we all have 3 capsuleers per account and 2 of them are rarely used other than for afk activities. With Eve having one of the best character creations out there, it seems such a waste. This would allow us to have more fun with our other 2, rather than see them rot away in some Captain Quarters. Dailies are horrible, but as far as being rewarded for these, there is no game out there than offers a more valuable reward. The positives to this new feature heavily outweigh the negatives. People arguing about how unfair it is if they can't login every day etc. I understand but would you rather see 20k online when you do log in, or potentially 40k+? There are plenty of ppl who have played eve for years that never leave hs and there are players from a day one that get pulled into null. It's not time players need but direction and go kill one belt rat is not direction And that is exactly why this new feature could help those players that never leave high sec, actually gain a few skill points in the other capsuleers, and experiment with other aspects of the game and not care about getting them blown up.
Lugh Crow-Slave 1841	Posted - 2016.04.10 13:49:47 - [786] - Quote T-Jay Charante wrote: Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: T-Jay Charante wrote: I originally thought this was a terrible idea, this has no place in Eve etc. agreeing with many in the thread. Over the past few days my opinion has changed. After watching various streams lately, Spectre fleet, Boat, Zarvox to name a few, and how much fun Eve can be when you hit low sec and null. This is what Eve is about and I started to wonder exactly how many new people that try the game actually stick around long enough to experience any of it. Would this be the carrot that gets newer players to stick around long enough to experience the better parts of the game? I think it could well be. Eve is a wonderful game, people just don't get the chance to see its full potential and that's a shame. This is not only about new players, we all have 3 capsuleers per account and 2 of them are rarely used other than for afk activities. With Eve having one of the best character creations out there, it seems such a waste. This would allow us to have more fun with our other 2, rather than see them rot away in some Captain Quarters. Dailies are horrible, but as far as being rewarded for these, there is no game out there than offers a more valuable reward. The positives to this new feature heavily outweigh the negatives. People arguing about how unfair it is if they can't login every day etc. I understand but would you rather see 20k online when you do log in, or potentially 40k+? There are plenty of ppl who have played eve for years that never leave hs and there are players from a day one that get pulled into null. It's not time players need but direction and go kill one belt rat is not direction And that is exactly why this new feature could help those players that never leave high sec, actually gain a few skill points in the other capsuleers, experiment with other aspects of the game and not care about getting them blown up. As said, I hated this idea at first, but I only see positives with very little negatives. Again the result (ppl getting sp) is not what most of us are taking issue with. It's how they are gaining that sp. We don't want ccp telling players what to do how to do it or how often Citadel worm hole tax
Big Lynx 5670	Posted - 2016.04.10 13:56:09 - [787] - Quote Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: We don't want ccp telling players what to do how to do it or how often Are they? And why are you speaking for all other players, when you only know the opinion of a minorty on forums?
T-Jay Charante Black Sun Industry and Research 30	Posted - 2016.04.10 13:56:46 - [788] - Quote All they have to do is give multiple options in the daily list that cover all aspects of the game, that you would probably be doing any way if you undock, and the problem is solved. Killing a rat was mentioned in the OP, I'm sure they have more to the system that that sole activity.
Dror Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 64	Posted - 2016.04.10 14:05:51 - [789] - Quote Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Aluanna wrote: Honestly I'm on the fence about this.. Personally, I don't like the pressure to log in daily.. I'd much rather see this as a weekly thing that requires more effort, but also gives more reward.. Assuming it's going to be implemented.. Like every 6 days you log on and kill X NPC ships OR player ships, OR mine X ore (Not a checklist, just alternatives for those who don't partake in PVE) And once that is done you get X free SP (say 50k) It's just like the dailies, only the pressure is to log on weekly and put a little effort in, not daily find a random anomaly, warp in, kill one ship, dock up and log out.. So you understand the concept behind dailies in eve is faulty at best but you want the bonuse XP I think this sums up the reasons ppl support this idea It absolutely should. SP is quite obviously the whole reason for its announcement. There's no problem with rewarding log-on behavior either. It would exist automatically without SP, as players would start a production queue or check out a fresh market, increasing the amount of potential trade hubs and combat activities. Welcome to logic. "SP is helpful for the game?" Here's all of the research on motivation -- it says the opposite! What purpose does it serve, then? Starter corps are non-competitive. Sov is unchallenged. "Fix sov!" you say? Remove SP.
Lugh Crow-Slave 1843	Posted - 2016.04.10 14:08:44 - [790] - Quote Dror wrote: Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Aluanna wrote: Honestly I'm on the fence about this.. Personally, I don't like the pressure to log in daily.. I'd much rather see this as a weekly thing that requires more effort, but also gives more reward.. Assuming it's going to be implemented.. Like every 6 days you log on and kill X NPC ships OR player ships, OR mine X ore (Not a checklist, just alternatives for those who don't partake in PVE) And once that is done you get X free SP (say 50k) It's just like the dailies, only the pressure is to log on weekly and put a little effort in, not daily find a random anomaly, warp in, kill one ship, dock up and log out.. So you understand the concept behind dailies in eve is faulty at best but you want the bonuse XP I think this sums up the reasons ppl support this idea It absolutely should. SP is quite obviously the whole reason for its announcement. There's no problem with rewarding log-on behavior either. It would exist automatically without SP, as players would start a production queue or check out a fresh market, increasing the amount of potential trade hubs and combat activities. Welcome to logic. Then reward me for logging on but don't give me tasks that I would only do in order to get this sp Citadel worm hole tax
Lugh Crow-Slave 1843	Posted - 2016.04.10 14:10:27 - [791] - Quote Big Lynx wrote: Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: We don't want ccp telling players what to do how to do it or how often Are they? And why are you speaking for all other players, when you only know the opinion of a minorty on forums? Because I remember how this Gabe was and sometimes still is advertised A sand box game where you are given tools and a play place to make what you want with them Not a theme park where you ate guided around to the differant attractions Citadel worm hole tax
sero Hita Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 144	Posted - 2016.04.10 14:26:42 - [792] - Quote I am generally quite possitive about the changes CCP has done the last years, but with this I have this nagging feeling that the motive behind is more sinister. The claim is more will log in, but it will be only briefly to get the SP, defating its purpose. Dailies and weeklies made me quit SWTOR, as I in the end hated logging in just to repeat the same **** I did every day. So as this does not have the wanted affect, let us then look at what is does do.... it injects quite a lot of SP into the system. That is convinient just after SP trading was implemented. You can create 6 extra injectors per year per char. that is potentially (In an extreme best case scenario) 18 extra extractors bought from CCP for each account. Nice way to make money, it will not get more people in space for longer periods of time though. "I'm all for pvp, don't get me wrong. I've ganked in Empire, blobed in low sec. Got T-shirts from every which-where.. But to be forced into a pvp confrontation that I didn't want is wrong ccp." RealFlisker
Lugh Crow-Slave 1844	Posted - 2016.04.10 14:31:38 - [793] - Quote sero Hita wrote: I am generally quite possitive about the changes CCP has done the last years, but with this I have this nagging feeling that the motive behind is more sinister. The claim is more will log in, but it will be only briefly to get the SP, defating its purpose. Dailies and weeklies made me quit SWTOR, as I in the end hated logging in just to repeat the same **** I did every day. So as this does not have the wanted affect, let us then look at what is does do.... it injects quite a lot of SP into the system. That is convinient just after SP trading was implemented. You can create 6 extra injectors per year per char. that is potentially (In an extreme best case scenario) 18 extra extractors bought from CCP for each account. Nice way to make money, it will not get more people in space for longer periods of time though. The goal of dailies is not to get more people playing just to get more ppl to log in increasing log in averages and thus will do just that. It's not a change to make things better for players but a change to make things better for ccp Citadel worm hole tax
Zoltan Cole Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde 2	Posted - 2016.04.10 14:39:17 - [794] - Quote Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: The goal of dailies is not to get more people playing just to get more ppl to log in increasing log in averages and thus will do just that. It's not a change to make things better for players but a change to make things better for ccp ..Quite the claim. Fortunately for game development, more players logged in simultaneously is more on TS and more ready to do something interesting. Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Then reward me for logging on but don't give me tasks that I would only do in order to get this sp .. A sand box game where you are given tools and a play place to make what you want with them Not a theme park where you ate guided around to the differant attractions It's odd that a single and basically-immediate action can inspire such claims like "it's not a sandbox game anymore". The ludicrousness is argumentatively self-defeating. If there's no suggested alternative for such a simple action and such an effective reward (including getting players undocked), there's surely no reason to post. Enjoy.
Moac Tor Cyber Core Stain Confederation 477	Posted - 2016.04.10 14:42:49 - [795] - Quote Just give SP rewards to newer players and be done with it. That would be better than screwing with the core mechanisms of the game with seemingly no thought to the consequences. Rise is a complete fail at everything he touches game design wise. He has completely failed with the NPE. He has bought on a whole host of unintended consequences with skill injectors (passive ISK). And now is trying desperately to scrabble about to reverse the fact that people are making billions passively by introducing his daily quest BS in an attempt to bring the value of passive SP farming down. Modulated ECM Effects An Alternative to Skill Trading
T-Jay Charante Black Sun Industry and Research 30	Posted - 2016.04.10 14:53:45 - [796] - Quote Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: sero Hita wrote: I am generally quite possitive about the changes CCP has done the last years, but with this I have this nagging feeling that the motive behind is more sinister. The claim is more will log in, but it will be only briefly to get the SP, defating its purpose. Dailies and weeklies made me quit SWTOR, as I in the end hated logging in just to repeat the same **** I did every day. So as this does not have the wanted affect, let us then look at what is does do.... it injects quite a lot of SP into the system. That is convinient just after SP trading was implemented. You can create 6 extra injectors per year per char. that is potentially (In an extreme best case scenario) 18 extra extractors bought from CCP for each account. Nice way to make money, it will not get more people in space for longer periods of time though. The goal of dailies is not to get more people playing just to get more ppl to log in increasing log in averages and thus will do just that. It's not a change to make things better for players but a change to make things better for ccp But it does make things better for the players, and for CCP too obviously. If I am juggling a few games at any particular time, instead of logging into one if the other games, I'm logging into Eve. Ok, maybe for 5 minutes, or maybe once I log in, I stay for longer than expected, who knows. But at the end of the day, I'm playing Eve rather than the other game.
Ravcharas Infinite Point Violence of Action. 458	Posted - 2016.04.10 15:01:41 - [797] - Quote Any CSM wanna pipe in with some stellar management counselling?
T-Jay Charante Black Sun Industry and Research 30	Posted - 2016.04.10 15:05:27 - [798] - Quote Moac Tor wrote: Just give SP rewards to newer players and be done with it. That would be better than screwing with the core mechanisms of the game with seemingly no thought to the consequences. Rise is a complete fail at everything he touches game design wise. He has completely failed with the NPE. He has bought on a whole host of unintended consequences with skill injectors (passive ISK). And now is trying desperately to scrabble about to reverse the fact that people are making billions passively by introducing his daily quest BS in an attempt to bring the value of passive SP farming down. I wouldn't shoot the messenger here (Rise). This idea is obviously linked to Skill Extractors and to sell more of them. You can't make these billions without Skill Extractors, and you can't get these without someone paying money for them. I have nothing against CCP doing this, but don't think this is free passive Isk for people. Somewhere, someone paid real cash.
Lugh Crow-Slave 1847	Posted - 2016.04.10 15:09:09 - [799] - Quote Zoltan Cole wrote: Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: The goal of dailies is not to get more people playing just to get more ppl to log in increasing log in averages and thus will do just that. It's not a change to make things better for players but a change to make things better for ccp ..Quite the claim. Fortunately for game development, more players logged in simultaneously is more on TS and more ready to do something interesting. Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Then reward me for logging on but don't give me tasks that I would only do in order to get this sp .. A sand box game where you are given tools and a play place to make what you want with them Not a theme park where you ate guided around to the differant attractions It's odd that a single and basically-immediate action can inspire such claims like "it's not a sandbox game anymore". The ludicrousness is argumentatively self-defeating. If there's no suggested alternative for such a simple action and such an effective reward (including getting players undocked), there's surely no reason to post. Enjoy. How this effects the sandbox is of your ad value to one task you detract it from other This first iteration will not do that but they add more and more and suddenly people are no longer setting their own goals they ate just doing the highly rewarding goals set by ccp Citadel worm hole tax
Zoltan Cole Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde 3	Posted - 2016.04.10 15:42:02 - [800] - Quote Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Zoltan Cole wrote: Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: The goal of dailies is not to get more people playing just to get more ppl to log in increasing log in averages and thus will do just that. It's not a change to make things better for players but a change to make things better for ccp ..Quite the claim. Fortunately for game development, more players logged in simultaneously is more on TS and more ready to do something interesting. Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Then reward me for logging on but don't give me tasks that I would only do in order to get this sp .. A sand box game where you are given tools and a play place to make what you want with them Not a theme park where you ate guided around to the differant attractions It's odd that a single and basically-immediate action can inspire such claims like "it's not a sandbox game anymore". The ludicrousness is argumentatively self-defeating. If there's no suggested alternative for such a simple action and such an effective reward (including getting players undocked), there's surely no reason to post. Enjoy. How this effects the sandbox is of your ad value to one task you detract it from other This first iteration will not do that but they add more and more and suddenly people are no longer setting their own goals they ate just doing the highly rewarding goals set by ccp Yet, the net whole is more players online. That's neat -- the game progression being mostly offline is an absolutely awful design for an MMO, especially that with a deep economy, and even more because of the limitations it puts on options (and thus interest). Players should be logging in and doing ******* spreadsheets because they know it makes them more money to reprocess X and produce Y than farming PvE anoms (and AFK!). This is min-maxing and it's mostly what video games / RPGs are. Digressing, if SP is supposed to be a thing in this progression of the game's development, players are where "it's" at. This whole idea of a single rat encounter giving 10k SP making all of EVE Online some forced experience is complete drivel. Can it please stop.
Lugh Crow-Slave 1849	Posted - 2016.04.10 15:53:25 - [801] - Quote Zoltan Cole wrote: Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Zoltan Cole wrote: Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: The goal of dailies is not to get more people playing just to get more ppl to log in increasing log in averages and thus will do just that. It's not a change to make things better for players but a change to make things better for ccp ..Quite the claim. Fortunately for game development, more players logged in simultaneously is more on TS and more ready to do something interesting. Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Then reward me for logging on but don't give me tasks that I would only do in order to get this sp .. A sand box game where you are given tools and a play place to make what you want with them Not a theme park where you ate guided around to the differant attractions It's odd that a single and basically-immediate action can inspire such claims like "it's not a sandbox game anymore". The ludicrousness is argumentatively self-defeating. If there's no suggested alternative for such a simple action and such an effective reward (including getting players undocked), there's surely no reason to post. Enjoy. How this effects the sandbox is of your ad value to one task you detract it from other This first iteration will not do that but they add more and more and suddenly people are no longer setting their own goals they ate just doing the highly rewarding goals set by ccp Yet, the net whole is more players online. That's neat -- the game progression being mostly offline is an absolutely awful design for an MMO, especially that with a deep economy, and even more because of the limitations it puts on options (and thus interest). Players should be logging in and doing ******* spreadsheets because they know it makes them more money to reprocess X and produce Y than farming PvE anoms (and AFK!). This is min-maxing and it's mostly what video games / RPGs are. Digressing, if SP is supposed to be a thing in this progression of the game's development, players are where "it's" at. This whole idea of a single rat encounter giving 10k SP making all of EVE Online some forced experience is complete drivel. Can it please stop. I just said this first iteration of this will not change anything so no I'm not complaining about one rat And there is nothing wrong with players being able to play without logging in that one of the better things about eve. I can have a wife and kid yet still play eve because I don't need to constantly log in. Players can log in and play as often and for add long as they want and each is just as valid Punishing players who enjoy playing this game one easy by rewarding people who play it another is bad for a sand box Citadel worm hole tax
Krevnos Back Door Burglars The Otherworld 133	Posted - 2016.04.10 15:54:10 - [802] - Quote T-Jay Charante wrote: All they have to do is give multiple options in the daily list that cover all aspects of the game, that you would probably be doing any way if you undock, and the problem is solved. Killing a rat was mentioned in the OP, I'm sure they have more to the system than that sole activity. Really?? How long have you been playing Eve? Shall we go through a list of just a few instances where CCP has failed to expand adequately on features?: Walking in stations (introduced as a half-baked feature, stayed that way) Drifters (gameplay never evolved) Null sec escalation complexes (many were missing for 8 years, some still aren't right) Ghost Fitting (never actually made it to server) The Rorqual (LOL) The Certificates system (useless feature at best and down-right misleading at worst) New camera (still disgusting, most have switched it off and switch it off again every time CCP switches it on for us after a patch) The second generation launcher (it was so bad many players never switched from the legacy one). We have now moved the the third generation one. New probe scanner (still inferior to old one, I switched it off). Corporation management interface. After 12 years it's still a confusing heap of options that sometimes work when you find them.
Lugh Crow-Slave 1850	Posted - 2016.04.10 16:08:57 - [803] - Quote Eve in four years Log in Kill 5 rats Mine 13000 veld Build 10 frigs Hack 4 relic cans Hack 4 data cans "Hay we are forming a team for arena you in? " "Nah I still need to finish 3 security missions and enter 5 wormholes then I think I'll log" Citadel worm hole tax
Zoltan Cole Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde 3	Posted - 2016.04.10 16:13:17 - [804] - Quote Krevnos wrote: T-Jay Charante wrote: All they have to do is give multiple options in the daily list that cover all aspects of the game, that you would probably be doing any way if you undock, and the problem is solved. Killing a rat was mentioned in the OP, I'm sure they have more to the system than that sole activity. Really?? How long have you been playing Eve? Shall we go through a list of just a few instances where CCP has failed to expand adequately on features?: Walking in stations (introduced as a half-baked feature, stayed that way) Drifters (gameplay never evolved) Null sec escalation complexes (many were missing for 8 years, some still aren't right) Ghost Fitting (never actually made it to server) The Rorqual (LOL) The Certificates system (useless feature at best and down-right misleading at worst) New camera (still disgusting, most have switched it off and switch it off again every time CCP switches it on for us after a patch) The second generation launcher (it was so bad many players never switched from the legacy one). We have now moved the the third generation one. New probe scanner (still inferior to old one, I switched it off). Corporation management interface. After 12 years it's still a confusing heap of options that sometimes work when you find them. Scanner overlay - an irritating pop-up that everyone accidentally brings up when they're trying to target whoever is warp disrupting them. Love, making minigames for WIS, Drifter gameplay being fulfilling and impacting, etc. -- foremost, aren't features to improve retention and the PCU. Just as well, they aren't as simple as "does X, gets SP". This is, and it's a worthy feature because of its benefits. Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: I just said this first iteration of this will not change anything so no I'm not complaining about one rat And there is nothing wrong with players being able to play without logging in that one of the better things about eve. I can have a wife and kid yet still play eve because I don't need to constantly log in. Players can log in and play as often and for add long as they want and each is just as valid Punishing players who enjoy playing this game one easy by rewarding people who play it another is bad for a sand box "There is nothing wrong with players being able to play without logging in." If the player can't play, why should they be rewarded? If the player can play, why shouldn't they be? If the player has enough patience for the SP system, they surely have enough to play the game when they can for whatever amount of progression. It would plausibly be much less than the 20y of queues. Injectors have pushed real money into the SP equation more than ever, so it's not even about whether or not a player can play.. unless they're poor. Isn't being rewarded SP for activities exactly the same as the game is now except with more options? That player's not at work making real money, nor grinding for ISK, but is still being rewarded for playing the game / being part of the action. Those who can't play aren't losing anything, just missing out. Yet the point remains, if SP is that much of a determiner for enjoyment of the game, there's no reason for it to exist. All the complaints here about missing out on some 10k SP should be talking about how new characters are missing out on 10 or 50 or 100M SP, with the same amount of empathy. It's the same feeling. What makes veterans missing 10k SP any more relevant than newbies quitting the game because every niche they are interested in has a 5M SP training queue? Nothing. Welcome to the silence that is the SP discussion.
Lugh Crow-Slave 1850	Posted - 2016.04.10 16:18:33 - [805] - Quote Zoltan Cole wrote: Krevnos wrote: T-Jay Charante wrote: All they have to do is give multiple options in the daily list that cover all aspects of the game, that you would probably be doing any way if you undock, and the problem is solved. Killing a rat was mentioned in the OP, I'm sure they have more to the system than that sole activity. Really?? How long have you been playing Eve? Shall we go through a list of just a few instances where CCP has failed to expand adequately on features?: Walking in stations (introduced as a half-baked feature, stayed that way) Drifters (gameplay never evolved) Null sec escalation complexes (many were missing for 8 years, some still aren't right) Ghost Fitting (never actually made it to server) The Rorqual (LOL) The Certificates system (useless feature at best and down-right misleading at worst) New camera (still disgusting, most have switched it off and switch it off again every time CCP switches it on for us after a patch) The second generation launcher (it was so bad many players never switched from the legacy one). We have now moved the the third generation one. New probe scanner (still inferior to old one, I switched it off). Corporation management interface. After 12 years it's still a confusing heap of options that sometimes work when you find them. Scanner overlay - an irritating pop-up that everyone accidentally brings up when they're trying to target whoever is warp disrupting them. Love, making minigames for WIS, Drifter gameplay being fulfilling and impacting, etc. -- foremost, aren't features to improve retention and the PCU. Just as well, they aren't as simple as "does X, gets SP". This is, and it's a worthy feature because of its benefits. Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: I just said this first iteration of this will not change anything so no I'm not complaining about one rat And there is nothing wrong with players being able to play without logging in that one of the better things about eve. I can have a wife and kid yet still play eve because I don't need to constantly log in. Players can log in and play as often and for add long as they want and each is just as valid Punishing players who enjoy playing this game one easy by rewarding people who play it another is bad for a sand box "There is nothing wrong with players being able to play without logging in." If the player can't play, why should they be rewarded? If the player can play, why shouldn't they be? If the player has enough patience for the SP system, they surely have enough to play the game when they can for whatever amount of progression. It would plausibly be much less than the 20y of queues. Injectors have pushed real money into the SP equation more than ever, so it's not even about whether or not a player can play.. unless they're poor. Isn't being rewarded SP for activities exactly the same as the game is now except with more options? That player's not at work making real money, nor grinding for ISK, but is still being rewarded for playing the game / being part of the action. Those who can't play aren't losing anything, just missing out. Yet the point remains, if SP is that much of a determiner for enjoyment of the game, there's no reason for it to exist. All the complaints here about missing out on some 10k SP should be talking about how new characters are missing out on 10 or 50 or 100M SP, with the same amount of empathy. It's the same feeling. What makes veterans missing 10k SP any more relevant than newbies quitting the game because every niche they are interested in has a 5M SP training queue? Nothing. Welcome to the silence that is the SP discussion. Just because I'm not logged in doesn't mean I'm not paying. Hell I have fced before without even being at a PC I'll take it you never played many long duration table top RPGs like dnd You didn't need to all be sitting down at a table with a board in front of you and you didn't need any preset goal or quest all you needed was the other people in your group and a few pie defined rules. This magic has been lost in most games but has still managed to stick around with eve Citadel worm hole tax
T-Jay Charante Black Sun Industry and Research 30	Posted - 2016.04.10 16:21:25 - [806] - Quote Krevnos wrote: T-Jay Charante wrote: All they have to do is give multiple options in the daily list that cover all aspects of the game, that you would probably be doing any way if you undock, and the problem is solved. Killing a rat was mentioned in the OP, I'm sure they have more to the system than that sole activity. Really?? How long have you been playing Eve? Shall we go through a list of just a few instances where CCP has failed to expand adequately on features?: Walking in stations (introduced as a half-baked feature, stayed that way) Drifters (gameplay never evolved) Null sec escalation complexes (many were missing for 8 years, some still aren't right) Ghost Fitting (never actually made it to server) The Rorqual (LOL) The Certificates system (useless feature at best and down-right misleading at worst) New camera (still disgusting, most have switched it off and switch it off again every time CCP switches it on for us after a patch) The second generation launcher (it was so bad many players never switched from the legacy one). We have now moved the the third generation one. New probe scanner (still inferior to old one, I switched it off). Corporation management interface. After 12 years it's still a confusing heap of options that sometimes work when you find them. Scanner overlay - an irritating pop-up that everyone accidentally brings up when they're trying to target whoever is warp disrupting them. Lets keep this in perspective, an Opportunities interface is already in place. Use that, simple. Comparing something like this to implementing Walking in Stations is crazy as they aren't even close to being on the same scale.
Aluanna Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 14	Posted - 2016.04.10 16:21:41 - [807] - Quote Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Aluanna wrote: Honestly I'm on the fence about this.. Personally, I don't like the pressure to log in daily.. I'd much rather see this as a weekly thing that requires more effort, but also gives more reward.. Assuming it's going to be implemented.. Like every 6 days you log on and kill X NPC ships OR player ships, OR mine X ore (Not a checklist, just alternatives for those who don't partake in PVE) And once that is done you get X free SP (say 50k) It's just like the dailies, only the pressure is to log on weekly and put a little effort in, not daily find a random anomaly, warp in, kill one ship, dock up and log out.. So you understand the concept behind dailies in eve is faulty at best but you want the bonuse XP I think this sums up the reasons ppl support this idea I understand the concept and who wouldn't want the bonus? But what I meant, or intended to mean was that knowing CCP (looking at skill injectors and the heaps and heaps of negative feedback that CCP then turned around and said was positive) they will implement it regardless, So with that in mind, I was just trying to think of less awful ways to go about this.. Feeling the pressure to spend 5 minutes once every 22 hours vs feeling the pressure to spend 20 min every weekend is very different.. And I for one - assuming this feature will be implemented regardless of what the community says - would rather spend 20 min every 6 days rather than 5 minutes every day, Some days we just don't want to, or don't have time, or can't play. That makes most of us (I assume) feel like we are missing out. Not having time/ability/want to spend 20 min every 6 days is much harder to justify. Dror wrote: It absolutely should. SP is quite obviously the whole reason for its announcement. There's no problem with rewarding log-on behavior either. It would exist automatically without SP, as players would start a production queue or check out a fresh market, increasing the amount of potential trade hubs and combat activities. Welcome to logic. I don't see a problem supporting log on behavior, I would just rather see it weekly than daily. Or even monthly.. That way you can spread the task out over a longer time. With a daily reward for killing a single NPC people are ABSOLUTELY going to log on, grab any old frigate, find the nearest anomaly, warp in, kill a single ship, grab the reward, dock back up and log out. With a bigger task it might actually encourage teaming up. For example, say the reward is over the month, but requires you to kill 500 NPC ships. It's pretty easy to kill 500 NPC's in a month, but say you have a friend online and you both have yet to complete your monthly bonus. So you fleet up and run around doing anomalies or missions or belt rats together, each ship counting towards both of your rewards, it would make getting the bonus more fun in my eyes. Ideas for missile launchers to make firing missiles more interesting/rewarding
Lugh Crow-Slave 1850	Posted - 2016.04.10 16:25:31 - [808] - Quote Aluanna wrote: Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Aluanna wrote: Honestly I'm on the fence about this.. Personally, I don't like the pressure to log in daily.. I'd much rather see this as a weekly thing that requires more effort, but also gives more reward.. Assuming it's going to be implemented.. Like every 6 days you log on and kill X NPC ships OR player ships, OR mine X ore (Not a checklist, just alternatives for those who don't partake in PVE) And once that is done you get X free SP (say 50k) It's just like the dailies, only the pressure is to log on weekly and put a little effort in, not daily find a random anomaly, warp in, kill one ship, dock up and log out.. So you understand the concept behind dailies in eve is faulty at best but you want the bonuse XP I think this sums up the reasons ppl support this idea I understand the concept and who wouldn't want the bonus? But what I meant, or intended to mean was that knowing CCP (looking at skill injectors and the heaps and heaps of negative feedback that CCP then turned around and said was positive) they will implement it regardless, So with that in mind, I was just trying to think of less awful ways to go about this.. Feeling the pressure to spend 5 minutes once every 22 hours vs feeling the pressure to spend 20 min every weekend is very different.. And I for one - assuming this feature will be implemented regardless of what the community says - would rather spend 20 min every 6 days rather than 5 minutes every day, Some days we just don't want to, or don't have time, or can't play. That makes most of us (I assume) feel like we are missing out. Not having time/ability/want to spend 20 min every 6 days is much harder to justify. Dror wrote: It absolutely should. SP is quite obviously the whole reason for its announcement. There's no problem with rewarding log-on behavior either. It would exist automatically without SP, as players would start a production queue or check out a fresh market, increasing the amount of potential trade hubs and combat activities. Welcome to logic. I don't see a problem supporting log on behavior, I would just rather see it weekly than daily. Or even monthly.. That way you can spread the task out over a longer time. With a daily reward for killing a single NPC people are ABSOLUTELY going to log on, grab any old frigate, find the nearest anomaly, warp in, kill a single ship, grab the reward, dock back up and log out. With a bigger task it might actually encourage teaming up. For example, say the reward is over the month, but requires you to kill 500 NPC ships. It's pretty easy to kill 500 NPC's in a month, but say you have a friend online and you both have yet to complete your monthly bonus. So you fleet up and run around doing anomalies or missions or belt rats together, each ship counting towards both of your rewards, it would make getting the bonus more fun in my eyes. Problem I see with making it such a large task is that means it's even more time I'm spending out grinding rather than doing what I want at least with one npc a day that's only 365 extra rates worth of grind I need every year. Citadel worm hole tax
Zoltan Cole Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde 3	Posted - 2016.04.10 16:28:09 - [809] - Quote Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: I'll take it you never played many long duration table top RPGs like dnd You didn't need to all be sitting down at a table with a board in front of you and you didn't need any preset goal or quest all you needed was the other people in your group and a few pie defined rules. This magic has been lost in most games but has still managed to stick around with eve As it is, the announcement is for taking out a single rat for a reward of 10k SP. The relevance of AFK FCing seems minimal. More players logging on to do their task is more characters to FC. The equation is obvious, so what exactly is the point being made? Aluanna wrote: I don't see a problem supporting log on behavior, I would just rather see it weekly than daily. Or even monthly.. That way you can spread the task out over a longer time. With a daily reward for killing a single NPC people are ABSOLUTELY going to log on, grab any old frigate, find the nearest anomaly, warp in, kill a single ship, grab the reward, dock back up and log out. There are no metrics for this and no reason for such a claim. If it's to benefit new players (obviously -- it's 10k SP), what's to say that there's established a "log-off automatically" mentality.. Nothing. They're online and getting experience. That's what the company believes retention comes from. They've stated the same for grouping, so it's within reason to bet on them planning that as well. Yet, the announced version is the most direct method of getting players online and undocked (and retained by lowering that queue -- interesting correlation).
Ruby Gnollo 4	Posted - 2016.04.10 16:32:41 - [810] - Quote baltec1 wrote: I don't log in every day, I simply do not have the time every day to sit down at a PC to play a game. I have things I need to do, people to see, things to wash, food to eat and so on. People only spending time in a game at the weekend is a very real thing. So, if you have not enough time to play Eve, why the **** would you want to be treated like taking it ?
Lugh Crow-Slave 1850	Posted - 2016.04.10 16:34:27 - [811] - Quote Zoltan Cole wrote: Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: I'll take it you never played many long duration table top RPGs like dnd You didn't need to all be sitting down at a table with a board in front of you and you didn't need any preset goal or quest all you needed was the other people in your group and a few pie defined rules. This magic has been lost in most games but has still managed to stick around with eve As it is, the announcement is for taking out a single rat for a reward of 10k SP. The relevance of AFK FCing seems minimal. More players logging on to do their task is more characters to FC. The equation is obvious, so what exactly is the point being made? Aluanna wrote: I don't see a problem supporting log on behavior, I would just rather see it weekly than daily. Or even monthly.. That way you can spread the task out over a longer time. With a daily reward for killing a single NPC people are ABSOLUTELY going to log on, grab any old frigate, find the nearest anomaly, warp in, kill a single ship, grab the reward, dock back up and log out. There are no metrics for this and no reason for such a claim. If it's to benefit new players (obviously -- it's 10k SP), what's to say that there's established a "log-off automatically" mentality.. Nothing. They're online and getting experience. That's what the company believes retention comes from. They've stated the same for grouping, so it's within reason to bet on them planning that as well. Yet, the announced version is the most direct method of getting players online and undocked (and retained by lowering that queue -- interesting correlation). There are more organic ways to get ppl to log in that CCP had managed to do b4 without them being the express goal and without telling players this is what they should do And powwow logging on just to get the SP are probably just going to log on kill rat log off. Add to the FC thing I was giving that add an example of how toy can play the game and s have an impact on other people playing without needing to be logged in. Showing how that playstyle is not detrimental to the game and equally as valid as playing while logged in Citadel worm hole tax
Carrion Crow Dropship 17	Posted - 2016.04.10 16:34:40 - [812] - Quote As a noob I can remember the thing immediately hooked me about eve was the dark nature and the depth of complexity. It was a scary dangerous world, that punished me terribly for venturing away from my mission hub. I can remember a landing next to a Myrmidon ( I thought it was the biggest thing I had ever seen ) in a belt, the first time I went to low sec. My frigate was immediately destroyed... but I had shot someone! in lawless space! A few days later I met a guy who helped me out, gave me isk for new ships and helped me learn to survive. The infinite darkness, complexity and social nature of the game is what makes people want to log in. Downplaying this and trivializing the nature of the game through daily grinds like this eat away at the eve online brand. CC
Lugh Crow-Slave 1850	Posted - 2016.04.10 16:35:21 - [813] - Quote Ruby Gnollo wrote: baltec1 wrote: I don't log in every day, I simply do not have the time every day to sit down at a PC to play a game. I have things I need to do, people to see, things to wash, food to eat and so on. People only spending time in a game at the weekend is a very real thing. So, if you have not enough time to play Eve, why the **** would you want to be treated like taking it ? What? Citadel worm hole tax
Zoltan Cole Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde 3	Posted - 2016.04.10 16:41:28 - [814] - Quote Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: There are more organic ways to get ppl to log in that CCP had managed to do b4 without them being the express goal and without telling players this is what they should do It's stated plenty in the thread that this is obviously for fresh characters. They have little else to be interested in except cheap SP because they don't have ships unlocked or methods of making dosh. Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: And powwow logging on just to get the SP are probably just going to log on kill rat log off. See Zoltan Cole wrote: There are no metrics for this and no reason for such a claim. If it's to benefit new players (obviously -- it's 10k SP), what's to say that there's established a "log-off automatically" mentality.. Nothing. They're online and getting experience. That's what the company believes retention comes from.
Lost touch Fla5hy Red. 28	Posted - 2016.04.10 16:48:56 - [815] - Quote Seems like a P bad idea tbh... You dont need me to explain why you already know why its a crap idea! Fla5hy Red the wrong way, only faster
Lugh Crow-Slave 1851	Posted - 2016.04.10 16:54:40 - [816] - Quote Zoltan Cole wrote: think of the newbie OH quit it this is not for the new players and you know it Citadel worm hole tax
Draciste Everyone vs Everything THE R0NIN 36	Posted - 2016.04.10 17:03:43 - [817] - Quote and what about the same if you got "killmark" ? https://twitter.com/Draciste
Princess Newstar All Sockets Closed HELM Alliance 0	Posted - 2016.04.10 17:05:27 - [818] - Quote Instead of concentrate so much on new things, what about getting your old crap to work proberly ???
Lan Wang Knights of the Posing Meat FETID 2640	Posted - 2016.04.10 17:07:36 - [819] - Quote T-Jay Charante wrote: Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: sero Hita wrote: I am generally quite possitive about the changes CCP has done the last years, but with this I have this nagging feeling that the motive behind is more sinister. The claim is more will log in, but it will be only briefly to get the SP, defating its purpose. Dailies and weeklies made me quit SWTOR, as I in the end hated logging in just to repeat the same ** I did every day. So as this does not have the wanted affect, let us then look at what is does do.... it injects quite a lot of SP into the system. That is convinient just after SP trading was implemented. You can create 6 extra injectors per year per char. that is potentially (In an extreme best case scenario) 18 extra extractors bought from CCP for each account. Nice way to make money, it will not get more people in space for longer periods of time though. The goal of dailies is not to get more people playing just to get more ppl to log in increasing log in averages and thus will do just that. It's not a change to make things better for players but a change to make things better for ccp But it does make things better for the players, and for CCP too obviously. If I am juggling a few games at any particular time, instead of logging into one of the other games, I'm logging into Eve. Ok, maybe for 5 minutes, or maybe once I log in, I stay for longer than expected, who knows. But at the end of the day, I'm playing Eve rather than the other game. how does it make things better for players? its creating a chore (this wont be the last one either) maybe 5 minutes now, but give it 6 months and everyone will be required to login everyday to feed themselves or they will die forever (or pay $59.99 for a special diet plan which makes you live for a month). these chores are totally cancer in games. this idea as ive said before has had no thought what so ever put into it, they could easily advance on the pve events they hold and make them better and more engaging for players, giving the whole playerbase something to do regardless if you pvp or not FETID now recruiting pvp pilots & corporations \| lowsec pvp & piracy -** Join FETID Loyalist to Angel Cartel & Serpentis
Aluanna Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 15	Posted - 2016.04.10 17:08:19 - [820] - Quote Zoltan Cole wrote: Aluanna wrote: I don't see a problem supporting log on behavior, I would just rather see it weekly than daily. Or even monthly.. That way you can spread the task out over a longer time. With a daily reward for killing a single NPC people are ABSOLUTELY going to log on, grab any old frigate, find the nearest anomaly, warp in, kill a single ship, grab the reward, dock back up and log out. There are no metrics for this and no reason for such a claim. If it's to benefit new players (obviously -- it's 10k SP), what's to say that there's established a "log-off automatically" mentality.. Nothing. They're online and getting experience. That's what the company believes retention comes from. They've stated the same for grouping, so it's within reason to bet on them planning that as well. Yet, the announced version is the most direct method of getting players online and undocked (and retained by lowering that queue -- interesting correlation). Yea, because Eve players haven't time and time again shown that they will take the easy way over the hard way any time.. All those trade bots in trade hubs that automatically 0.01 isk undercut. Or trying to use a broadcasting macro to mine on several accounts. If you don't think it will happened you are just plain delusional. Many might not do it, but saying that it won't happened because there are no "metrics" showing it is just wrong. Doesn't need to be an established mentality.. It just needs to be something as simple as not really feeling like playing that day, but also not wanting to miss out on about 4 hours of extra training a day. Hence why I'd rather see it as a weekly or monthly task, to alleviate some of that 'Not wanting to miss out' mentality. spreading the task out over a week means you are a lot less likely to miss out from not wanting to play a couple days a week or month. Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Problem I see with making it such a large task is that means it's even more time I'm spending out grinding rather than doing what I want at least with one npc a day that's only 365 extra rates worth of grind I need every year. Hence why I suggested that there should be far more ways to receive the reward than just PVE. be it kill X number of players, mine X number of ore units or complete x number of scans. You should be able to get the reward doing whatever it is you enjoy doing in this game. Limiting it to PVE, even if the task is trivial is just plain dumb. Ideas for missile launchers to make firing missiles more interesting/rewarding
Lugh Crow-Slave 1851	Posted - 2016.04.10 17:12:25 - [821] - Quote Aluanna wrote: Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Problem I see with making it such a large task is that means it's even more time I'm spending out grinding rather than doing what I want at least with one npc a day that's only 365 extra rates worth of grind I need every year. Hence why I suggested that there should be far more ways to receive the reward than just PVE. be it kill X number of players, mine X number of ore units or complete x number of scans. You should be able to get the reward doing whatever it is you enjoy doing in this game. Limiting it to PVE, even if the task is trivial is just plain dumb. What about people like me who play the game by managing an alliance providing content to others and teaching newbie how would I get the sp? Citadel worm hole tax
u3pog Ministerstvo na otbranata 735	Posted - 2016.04.10 17:22:33 - [822] - Quote Daily I won't bother, only casual player, but it you add weelkly and more challenging I might do it.
Mayharm EVE University Ivy League 3	Posted - 2016.04.10 17:24:29 - [823] - Quote IN A PLAYER DRIVEN FUTURE [11:15] Servers are back online and you login. You open the corporation interface and check the daily missions on offer BY Eve University. Currently there are no dailies that provide an industrial reward/input and you're an industrialist. You check the Eve universities daily mission channel: [11:15:32] EVE System > Channel MOTD: Welcome to E-Uni dailies! E-Uni membership: 1696 Dailies membership/license ratio: 75% E-Uni license total: 1497 Open licenses: 360 Dailies posted: 937 Dailies completed: 200 Online dailies Co-ordinator: Player Agent Smith [11:16:03] You > Hello, can i get an industry daily please? [11:17:56] Player Agent Smith > Hi, ok we have 360 open so sure. We need hulls mostly, what can you build for us? [11:18:12] You > I can build incursus, algos and thorax hulls * Agent Smith checks what e-uni is planning over the next few weeks and sees a fleet that uses a thorax doctrine. NOTE that if there is no need for your services at all, you can log off, you can go look for content as if there were no daily, your choice, but you have been inspired to login for 5 minutes to CHECK for a daily. [11:21:52] Player Agent Smith > Ok I can set up a daily for a thorax hull, payment 10M isk, with an Ore site reward. That ok with you? [11:22:04] You > Yes please * Agent Smith sets up the daily using a contract style interface. E-uni pays a fee to CONCORD of 1M isk and pays you 10M isk just as they might within the existing contracts system, you set up a manufacturing job for the thorax to deliver into the corp hangar and once the daily is completed CCP gives you a random journal entry. Because Agent Smith set the daily to give an ore site reward that journal entry leads to an Ore site, for example a small kernite deposit in highsec with a total worth of 10-20M isk. [11:24:49] You > Thanks! [11:24:55] Player Agent Smith > You're welcome! Now go out and show those rocks who is the boss! You then spend x amount of time (I don't mine enough to know how to work out the time factor in this example) UNDOCKED completing the site in your hulk. Tomorrow you could login and decide, just for kicks, to do the same daily but get a combat site reward. This would be a 3/10 complex in highsec, say serpentis narcotic warehouse, which gives you an opportunity to try out your new exploration vexor. Pros: You are only "forced" to login by CCP, which is what they want out of this. The "force" applied to you to actually DO a daily is driven by the players themselves, which is what WE want out of it, yes? It requires some level of interaction between players. That's even if NOTHING happens. It provides a boost to the existing contract system without replacing it. The rewards are direct copies or variations of sites you can already do in space, so no threat of drastically unbalancing the eve economy. All CCP need to code is the interface, hopefully the contract and expedition/exploration code can be re-used or added to include this relatively easily. It solves a long standing issue for new players trying to do combat sites in highsec. All the decent content is hoovered up by experienced players in Gilas and Ishtars. A new player just cant compete, will be discouraged and may never get to see a 3/10 site before they give up. In this case it's a journal entry and so nigh on impossible to be contested for the site, but you still have the danger of being in space nonetheless. With the license structure you can balance it so that gaming the system is discouraged. E.g.: Corp Members - % licenses - Total licensees 1 - 0% - 0 2 - 50% - 1 10 - 55% - 5 100 - 60% - 60 Even if someone insists on setting up an alt corp and fills it with their nine accounts worth of alts, they benefit MORE from doing this with other players trying to do the same thing, encouraging "grinders" to join a single corp (which you could then wardec if you don't like grinders.... they will be un-docking after all). The rewards can be balanced to be tempting for newer players but not something you couldn't live without as an experienced player. I know when exploring I prefer 4/10, but will do 3/10 if i cant find them. If I cant get my "free" 3/10 and want to explore, i would just go back to my usual routine and search for 4/10s. I do see it being annoying not to get it as a new player, BUT that inspires them to go ASK their corp for more or to switch corps to one that they believe might provide them more dailies. In the E-uni I expect people like me would forgo taking up one of the license points from the newbros if we could help it, other corps might put different systems in place to control the supply, providing more player-driven content. CCP can start small with this, but if it works it can be scaled up, tied to sovnull/structures and still be driven by the players not CCP. CCP can also expand the interface to include different types of exchanges between the player corporations and their membership. Because it's inspired by the existing contracts system it should be easy enough to take estimates of the impact of this by looking at corp contract stats. In addition with CCP controlling the fee, the license and the value of the reward site, they should be able to take swift action to modify the numbers if players find a way to exploit it. Cons: CCP might choose to introduce exclusive content via dailies, this system doesn't prevent them from doing so. However, while I don't think it's immune to this, I think it being player driven might mitigate the resultant problems with that. There is a disadvantage for smaller corps getting a lower license ratio, but it should be possible to balance the license ratios between their needs and the risks of exploitation.
Terranid Meester Tactical Assault and Recon Unit 341	Posted - 2016.04.10 17:25:04 - [824] - Quote Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: What about people like me who play the game by managing an alliance providing content to others and teaching newbie how would I get the sp? Indeed, there are more important things to do in eve. This just gets in the way besides being the slippery slope to Hello Kitty Online.
Lugh Crow-Slave 1852	Posted - 2016.04.10 17:25:55 - [825] - Quote u3pog wrote: Daily I won't bother, only casual player, but it you add weelkly and more challenging I might do it. Don't worry when dailies work they will no doubt add weeklies,monthlie and special days Oh don't forget the log in x days straight to get a unique item Citadel worm hole tax
Amarisen Gream Divine Demise Apocalypse Now. 235	Posted - 2016.04.10 17:34:31 - [826] - Quote 40+ pages. As has been stated, there are tons of other features that need cleaned up, that are more important than a daily reward program for logging on. But, if i have read enough, the consent is! WE DO NOT WANT DAILIES. This is EVE, not WoW or any other grind based MMO. So please, rethink this... I know the OP was the stepping stone to more features built on this one. But, as has been stated, we have tons of features already that are half ***ed and not complete. Put more man power on the Ghost fitting window, redoing the PVE combat experiences, being able to swap toons without having to quit the game. xoxo "The Lord loosed upon them his fierce anger All of his fury and rage. He dispatched against them a band of Avenging Angels" - The Scriptures, Book II, Apocalypse 10:1 DIDE- is open to new members
Sentamon Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 2341	Posted - 2016.04.10 17:36:00 - [827] - Quote If your goal is to get people to log in daily then daily events with rich rewards are much better. Personally would love to see more NPC Empire vs Empire action that players can take part in, because with all due respect to the Player vs Player nullsec crowd, we all have learned from countless examples that your primary goal is boredom and monetizing EVE in approved and not so approved ways. ~ Professional Forum Alt -á~
Lugh Crow-Slave 1852	Posted - 2016.04.10 17:37:08 - [828] - Quote Amarisen Gream wrote: 40+ pages. As has been stated, there are tons of other features that need cleaned up, that are more important than a daily reward program for logging on. But, if i have read enough, the consent is! WE DO NOT WANT DAILIES. This is EVE, not WoW or any other grind based MMO. So please, rethink this... I know the OP was the stepping stone to more features built on this one. But, as has been stated, we have tons of features already that are half ***ed and not complete. Put more man power on the Ghost fitting window, redoing the PVE combat experiences, being able to swap toons without having to quit the game. xoxo Wait you mean use game play to get ppl to log in not hand outs? What are you mad? One way to do it is implement your fw idea of letting individuals join fw without the entire corp Citadel worm hole tax
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 27307	Posted - 2016.04.10 17:42:53 - [829] - Quote Big Lynx wrote: Great BS. Nobody in the ENTIRE virtual and real world forces you to do the daily. There are simply no arguments against this. only salt and tears without a factual background. So much buttpain for 3mio SP per year (!) Grow up nerds. GÇªexcept that you are being forced. There are no two ways about it. You have two options: one which rewards you in the most insane manner imaginable for accepting subpar gameplay; one where you forego said reward in exchange for the thing you actually want to do, which is bad for you. This is not an actual choice. It's a form of coercion: do as we say, or suffer the consequences. The argument that you're not GÇ£forcedGÇ¥ was as pathetic and ignorant back when it was used to try to save the learning skills, and for much the same reason: because you had no sane or sensible choice but to do the one beneficial thing. Just because you have a choice not to go along does not mean you're not being forced GÇö that's where the defenders of this retardation get it wrong. Let's draw it to an extreme: someone pulls a gun on you and tells you to give them all your money or they'll blow your knees off. Are you being forced? Yes. Every cogent and coherent (and legal) interpretation of the situation would classify this as you being forced, in spite of your having a choice. Because, again, choosing between two options where one is idiotic is not an actual choice; GÇ£you can choose not toGÇ¥ only works as an argument if choosing not to is a sensible choice to make. CCP has decided to force the issue by making the choice of non-participation to not be sensible. Just like GÇ£you're not forced toGÇ¥ was a useless and wholly inaccurate argument for keeping learning skills, it is a useless and wholly inaccurate argument for implementing this nonsense because by the very nature of the coercion GÇö the fact that you have to give up a 20GÇô30% increase in number of training hours per day(!!) in order to play the sandbox your way rather than the way CCP demands you do GÇö you are being forced.
Quisten Dreieck 0	Posted - 2016.04.10 17:54:50 - [830] - Quote I'm absolutely against the implementation this idea. For the same reasons as others have posted here before. I think I understand the motivation behind it, and I also have experience with other MMOs where dailies exist. I don't think they belong in EVE.
Lugh Crow-Slave 1853	Posted - 2016.04.10 17:56:13 - [831] - Quote And for the people saying your should be rewarded for logging in more than the people who don't this idea is still bad Say you can only log in on the week end but you spend 5 hrs a day so 10hrs a week Yet I'm rewarded more than you because I log in two minutes every day are my 14 minuts a week better for the game than your 10hrs Citadel worm hole tax
Moac Tor Cyber Core Stain Confederation 478	Posted - 2016.04.10 17:57:33 - [832] - Quote Zoltan Cole wrote: Yet, the net whole is more players online. That's neat -- the game progression being mostly offline is an absolutely awful design for an MMO SP Progression happens offline, yet game progression certainly happens online (or at least online in the meta sense). Eve progression is a hard concept to grasp for most newbies, progression depends solely upon what goal you set yourself and not grinding towards some arbitrary level cap. Modulated ECM Effects An Alternative to Skill Trading
Lugh Crow-Slave 1853	Posted - 2016.04.10 18:00:53 - [833] - Quote Moac Tor wrote: Zoltan Cole wrote: Yet, the net whole is more players online. That's neat -- the game progression being mostly offline is an absolutely awful design for an MMO SP Progression happens offline, yet game progression certainly happens online (or at least online in the meta sense). Eve progression is a hard concept to grasp for most newbies, progression depends solely upon what goal you set yourself and not grinding towards some arbitrary level cap. This exactly Citadel worm hole tax
Quisten Dreieck 0	Posted - 2016.04.10 18:04:42 - [834] - Quote Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: And for the people saying your should be rewarded for logging in more than the people who don't this idea is still bad Say you can only log in on the week end but you spend 5 hrs a day so 10hrs a week Yet I'm rewarded more than you because I log in two minutes every day are my 14 minuts a week better for the game than your 10hrs I could probably accept if they rewarded ISK for these dailies, if they really wanted to make EVE more like WoW. But certainly not SP.
Lugh Crow-Slave 1854	Posted - 2016.04.10 18:10:41 - [835] - Quote Quisten wrote: Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: And for the people saying your should be rewarded for logging in more than the people who don't this idea is still bad Say you can only log in on the week end but you spend 5 hrs a day so 10hrs a week Yet I'm rewarded more than you because I log in two minutes every day are my 14 minuts a week better for the game than your 10hrs I could probably accept if they rewarded ISK for these dailies, if they really wanted to make EVE more like WoW. But certainly not SP. Same And considering the majority of new players I talk to have the sp to branch out but are to afraid to lose ships this would probably be better for them And it would scale better if it was say 10 mil that's alot to a new bro and definitely worth logging in every day but after a few months you make 2x that in an hr letting you be free to do what you want without worrying about them With SP the older you are the more the sp is worth do to the diminishing returns of skill injectors. But this is not for new players this is fit ccps numbers Citadel worm hole tax
Kieron VonDeux 148	Posted - 2016.04.10 18:18:02 - [836] - Quote Welcome to the End. It was fun while it lasted.
Lugh Crow-Slave 1854	Posted - 2016.04.10 18:21:15 - [837] - Quote Kieron VonDeux wrote: Welcome to the End. It was fun while it lasted. Lo eve won't end or just won't be what we enjoy it will be just shy other hand holding mmo Citadel worm hole tax
Tomika Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 21	Posted - 2016.04.10 18:21:32 - [838] - Quote Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Same And considering the majority of new players I talk to have the sp to branch out but are to afraid to lose ships this would probably be better for them And it would scale better if it was say 10 mil that's alot to a new bro and definitely worth logging in every day but after a few months you make 2x that in an hr letting you be free to do what you want without worrying about them With SP the older you are the more the sp is worth do to the diminishing returns of skill injectors. The sp fir a vet is I worth 3x as much as it is for a new player But this is not for new players this is fit ccps numbers 55 posts you made already in this thread, and they're becoming increasingly illegible. Maybe it's time for a break?
Lugh Crow-Slave 1855	Posted - 2016.04.10 18:26:47 - [839] - Quote Tomika wrote: Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Same And considering the majority of new players I talk to have the sp to branch out but are to afraid to lose ships this would probably be better for them And it would scale better if it was say 10 mil that's alot to a new bro and definitely worth logging in every day but after a few months you make 2x that in an hr letting you be free to do what you want without worrying about them With SP the older you are the more the sp is worth do to the diminishing returns of skill injectors. The sp fir a vet is I worth 3x as much as it is for a new player But this is not for new players this is fit ccps numbers 55 posts you made already in this thread, and they're becoming increasingly illegible. Maybe it's time for a break? Good sir out of the 55 there were far more illegible posts than this if you had the time to count then I'm sure you had the abulity to fir and quote a better one Citadel worm hole tax
Jenn aSide Smokin Aces. 13886	Posted - 2016.04.10 18:27:26 - [840] - Quote Kieron VonDeux wrote: Welcome to the End. It was fun while it lasted. While funny, I'd like to point out how counter productive this is. EVERY time there is a change (good or bad) people start talking about the end of EVE and "minus a million accounts!!" and such. Eventually it has a 'crying wolf' affect on people, especially CCP. Right now Rise and Co. are probably sitting back thinking "hmm, usual end of the world/game hurf blurf, that must mean the idea is fine". This is why I'm careful to say that a change is bad on it's one merits but it probably won't kill the game, like skill trading (which I continue to oppose). Anger is natural but it doesn't serve to change the minds of the powers that be. Reason does (sometimes lol).
Lugh Crow-Slave 1855	Posted - 2016.04.10 18:30:26 - [841] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: Kieron VonDeux wrote: Welcome to the End. It was fun while it lasted. While funny, I'd like to point out how counter productive this is. EVERY time there is a change (good or bad) people start talking about the end of EVE and "minus a million accounts!!" and such. Eventually it has a 'crying wolf' affect on people, especially CCP. Right now Rise and Co. are probably sitting back thinking "hmm, usual end of the world/game hurf blurf, that must mean the idea is fine". This is why I'm careful to say that a change is bad on it's one merits but it probably won't kill the game, like skill trading (which I continue to oppose). Anger is natural but it doesn't serve to change the minds of the powers that be. Reason does (sometimes lol). To be honest I don't think any feed back in this thread will stop this change ccp knows is not going to be what many players want but they also know there is enough of them that will do dailies to achieve the goal Citadel worm hole tax
Rain6639 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3850	Posted - 2016.04.10 18:43:33 - [842] - Quote The only question I'm interested in is how they will adjust the number of SP awarded per day. I see it as a matter of balance at this point.
Lugh Crow-Slave 1855	Posted - 2016.04.10 18:47:33 - [843] - Quote Rain6639 wrote: The only question I'm interested in is how they will adjust the number of SP awarded per day. I see it as a matter of balance at this point. What 27% of base daily sp to much or to little Citadel worm hole tax
Rain6639 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3850	Posted - 2016.04.10 18:49:25 - [844] - Quote It's not a stretch of the imagination to understand the benefit of awarding SP for kills eventually. Based on material costs perhaps. In that scenario, value for PLEX kills wouldn't increase the SP reward. Seems like a good measure of contributing to game activity. Maybe the SP reward could be set by a 75% reduction of benefit compared to Injectors, so for killing an injector's going rate you get 25% of the highest SP tier (150k SP) which would be 30k or so. This proposed SP reward for killing one NPC is very high, balanced only by the daily limit of 1. In terms of value killed vs SP it's ridiculous. Those players who accepted the logic that SP in Injectors was earned by someone might agree that SP awarded for kills is ok when it is a result of removing value from the game through destruction.
Lugh Crow-Slave 1855	Posted - 2016.04.10 18:54:17 - [845] - Quote Rain6639 wrote: It's not a stretch of the imagination to understand the benefit of awarding SP for kills eventually. Based on material costs perhaps. In that scenario, value for PLEX kills wouldn't increase the SP reward. Seems like a good measure of contributing to game activity. Maybe the SP reward could be set by a 75% reduction of benefit compared to Injectors, so for killing an injector's going rate you get 25% of the highest SP tier (150k SP) which would be 30k or so. This proposed SP reward for killing one NPC is very high, balanced only by the daily limit of 1. In terms of value killed vs SP it's ridiculous. Those players who accepted the logic that SP in Injectors was earned by someone might agree that SP awarded for kills is ok when it is a result of removing value from the game through destruction. How would you account for injectors fluctuating in price of it ever happened Also is it everyone on the kill that get a split like with bounties or is it the final blow? Citadel worm hole tax
Rain6639 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3850	Posted - 2016.04.10 18:57:17 - [846] - Quote Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Rain6639 wrote: The only question I'm interested in is how they will adjust the number of SP awarded per day. I see it as a matter of balance at this point. What 27% of base daily sp to much or to little 10k SP is basically 10% of daily maximum SP so maybe they're testing a cap. I think it should be higher. What players are forgetting is there is a lot of psychology behind rewarding XP for active gameplay. If I allow myself to tinfoil here, I'd say this is a move in an overall / long-term effort to completely change EVE's business model. I don't see why there would be cause for resentment. If you were a player like me who paid for subscriptions for years to passively earn SP, you should have as much SP as you paid your subscription. So you realized the full benefit of the old model. It's valid to say instead of this strategy, why not make EVE more fun, but in terms of technical limitations, changing the way EVE works is an impossible undertaking. To put it another way, EVE has some built-in, fundamental shortcomings that I don't see changing ever, unless new mechanics are introduced that allow some twitch gameplay such as blocking to mitigate incoming attacks. Street fighter allows you to react with a low, mid, or high block to reduce the incoming damage of an attack. Without it you end up stuck to a bubble like a bug and there's nothing for you to do except die. The shortcoming is in that players of a lot of contemporary games expect that type of twitch counteraction to be available to them in PVP situations. Anyway I don't want to get off-topic, my point is this type of change in rewarding SP for gameplay is one of the few options available for technical reasons. WIth Injectors players should have realized CCP is looking to cut ties with players who pay subscriptions but don't play.
Rain6639 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3850	Posted - 2016.04.10 18:58:11 - [847] - Quote Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Rain6639 wrote: It's not a stretch of the imagination to understand the benefit of awarding SP for kills eventually. Based on material costs perhaps. In that scenario, value for PLEX kills wouldn't increase the SP reward. Seems like a good measure of contributing to game activity. Maybe the SP reward could be set by a 75% reduction of benefit compared to Injectors, so for killing an injector's going rate you get 25% of the highest SP tier (150k SP) which would be 30k or so. This proposed SP reward for killing one NPC is very high, balanced only by the daily limit of 1. In terms of value killed vs SP it's ridiculous. Those players who accepted the logic that SP in Injectors was earned by someone might agree that SP awarded for kills is ok when it is a result of removing value from the game through destruction. How would you account for injectors fluctuating in price of it ever happened Also is it everyone on the kill that get a split like with bounties or is it the final blow? Goblin had a good system where he paid out based on the percent damage on a killmail. SP rewarded would need to be a rolling figure based on the trading price of PLEX.
Jenn aSide Smokin Aces. 13886	Posted - 2016.04.10 18:59:47 - [848] - Quote Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Jenn aSide wrote: Kieron VonDeux wrote: Welcome to the End. It was fun while it lasted. While funny, I'd like to point out how counter productive this is. EVERY time there is a change (good or bad) people start talking about the end of EVE and "minus a million accounts!!" and such. Eventually it has a 'crying wolf' affect on people, especially CCP. Right now Rise and Co. are probably sitting back thinking "hmm, usual end of the world/game hurf blurf, that must mean the idea is fine". This is why I'm careful to say that a change is bad on it's one merits but it probably won't kill the game, like skill trading (which I continue to oppose). Anger is natural but it doesn't serve to change the minds of the powers that be. Reason does (sometimes lol). To be honest I don't think any feed back in this thread will stop this change ccp knows is not going to be what many players want but they also know there is enough of them that will do dailies to achieve the goal This is probably true.
Rain6639 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3851	Posted - 2016.04.10 19:06:27 - [849] - Quote There was a comment some pages ago where a player was unhappy about the prospect of logging in ten accounts to run dailies. For some time now I've suspected the business model is moving away from account-heavy players to single-account players who are more active. Just consider for a second that multiple accounts is very unnatural for a video game. And that perhaps if you can bring EVE back to a new normal where you are only balancing for one character per player, maybe that's a good idea. There are some huge discomforts to experience with one character, and maybe those are the items you would want to tackle first. Personally I think eventually we'll see EVE limited to one account logged in at a time, as a matter of policy.
Lan Wang Knights of the Posing Meat FETID 2640	Posted - 2016.04.10 19:11:08 - [850] - Quote Rain6639 wrote: There was a comment some pages ago where a player was unhappy about the prospect of logging in ten accounts to run dailies. For some time now I've suspected the business model is moving away from account-heavy players to single-account players who are more active. Just consider for a second that multiple accounts is very unnatural for a video game. And that perhaps if you can bring EVE back to a new normal where you are only balancing for one character per player, maybe that's a good idea. There are some huge discomforts to experience with one character, and maybe those are the items you would want to tackle first. Personally I think eventually we'll see EVE limited to one account logged in at a time, as a matter of policy. be a serious rework of mechanics/rules if they were to limit to 1 account at a time, having to ask other for cyno's etc will create chaos FETID now recruiting pvp pilots & corporations \| lowsec pvp & piracy - Join FETID Loyalist to Angel Cartel & Serpentis
Lugh Crow-Slave 1855	Posted - 2016.04.10 19:13:45 - [851] - Quote Rain6639 wrote: Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Rain6639 wrote: It's not a stretch of the imagination to understand the benefit of awarding SP for kills eventually. Based on material costs perhaps. In that scenario, value for PLEX kills wouldn't increase the SP reward. Seems like a good measure of contributing to game activity. Maybe the SP reward could be set by a 75% reduction of benefit compared to Injectors, so for killing an injector's going rate you get 25% of the highest SP tier (150k SP) which would be 30k or so. This proposed SP reward for killing one NPC is very high, balanced only by the daily limit of 1. In terms of value killed vs SP it's ridiculous. Those players who accepted the logic that SP in Injectors was earned by someone might agree that SP awarded for kills is ok when it is a result of removing value from the game through destruction. How would you account for injectors fluctuating in price of it ever happened Also is it everyone on the kill that get a split like with bounties or is it the final blow? Goblin had a good system where he paid out based on the percent damage on a killmail. SP rewarded would need to be a rolling figure based on the trading price of PLEX. Now this defiantly favors older players over newer ones And what I meant by the price not being set is what if some group tanks the market price of injectors in order to exploit this. Not saying it's likely or easy but it is a possibility to be accounted for Citadel worm hole tax
Rain6639 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3851	Posted - 2016.04.10 19:35:50 - [852] - Quote Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Rain6639 wrote: Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Rain6639 wrote: It's not a stretch of the imagination to understand the benefit of awarding SP for kills eventually. Based on material costs perhaps. In that scenario, value for PLEX kills wouldn't increase the SP reward. Seems like a good measure of contributing to game activity. Maybe the SP reward could be set by a 75% reduction of benefit compared to Injectors, so for killing an injector's going rate you get 25% of the highest SP tier (150k SP) which would be 30k or so. This proposed SP reward for killing one NPC is very high, balanced only by the daily limit of 1. In terms of value killed vs SP it's ridiculous. Those players who accepted the logic that SP in Injectors was earned by someone might agree that SP awarded for kills is ok when it is a result of removing value from the game through destruction. How would you account for injectors fluctuating in price of it ever happened Also is it everyone on the kill that get a split like with bounties or is it the final blow? Goblin had a good system where he paid out based on the percent damage on a killmail. SP rewarded would need to be a rolling figure based on the trading price of PLEX. Now this defiantly favors older players over newer ones And what I meant by the price not being set is what if some group tanks the market price of injectors in order to exploit this. Not saying it's likely or easy but it is a possibility to be accounted for Considering that SP and by extension Injectors are the crack cocaine of EVE I don't see this type of manipulation being possible. Local manipulation was solved with Forex, and the Greater EVE Market Cabal is only so good at manipulation either. The group you're imagining would need more market pull and coordination than anyone in EVE ever.
Rain6639 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3851	Posted - 2016.04.10 19:37:02 - [853] - Quote Lan Wang wrote: Rain6639 wrote: There was a comment some pages ago where a player was unhappy about the prospect of logging in ten accounts to run dailies. For some time now I've suspected the business model is moving away from account-heavy players to single-account players who are more active. Just consider for a second that multiple accounts is very unnatural for a video game. And that perhaps if you can bring EVE back to a new normal where you are only balancing for one character per player, maybe that's a good idea. There are some huge discomforts to experience with one character, and maybe those are the items you would want to tackle first. Personally I think eventually we'll see EVE limited to one account logged in at a time, as a matter of policy. be a serious rework of mechanics/rules if they were to limit to 1 account at a time, having to ask other for cyno's etc will create chaos And scouting. The difficulty is in the suck factor of being a guy who just sits there doing something. Still it's not something that can't be forced on CCP's end or solved with a culture shift on the player end.
Lugh Crow-Slave 1855	Posted - 2016.04.10 19:37:31 - [854] - Quote Rain6639 wrote: Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Rain6639 wrote: Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Rain6639 wrote: It's not a stretch of the imagination to understand the benefit of awarding SP for kills eventually. Based on material costs perhaps. In that scenario, value for PLEX kills wouldn't increase the SP reward. Seems like a good measure of contributing to game activity. Maybe the SP reward could be set by a 75% reduction of benefit compared to Injectors, so for killing an injector's going rate you get 25% of the highest SP tier (150k SP) which would be 30k or so. This proposed SP reward for killing one NPC is very high, balanced only by the daily limit of 1. In terms of value killed vs SP it's ridiculous. Those players who accepted the logic that SP in Injectors was earned by someone might agree that SP awarded for kills is ok when it is a result of removing value from the game through destruction. How would you account for injectors fluctuating in price of it ever happened Also is it everyone on the kill that get a split like with bounties or is it the final blow? Goblin had a good system where he paid out based on the percent damage on a killmail. SP rewarded would need to be a rolling figure based on the trading price of PLEX. Now this defiantly favors older players over newer ones And what I meant by the price not being set is what if some group tanks the market price of injectors in order to exploit this. Not saying it's likely or easy but it is a possibility to be accounted for Considering that SP and by extension Injectors are the crack cocaine of EVE I don't see this type of manipulation being possible. Local manipulation was solved with Forex, and the Greater EVE Market Cabal is only so good at manipulation either. The group you're imagining would need more market pull and coordination than anyone in EVE ever. I think people said a similar thing about anyone buying enough to max out a toon Citadel worm hole tax
Rain6639 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3851	Posted - 2016.04.10 19:37:50 - [855] - Quote guy or girl.
Rain6639 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3851	Posted - 2016.04.10 19:40:31 - [856] - Quote Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: I think people said a similar thing about anyone buying enough to max out a toon No they didn't. The wealth ceiling was always known to be high enough that someone would power level a character. Controlling the price of PLEX or Injectors is something players would love to do already but it's impossible. To do it someone would have to drive down the price of Injectors AND other players would have to avoid buying them.
Rain6639 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3851	Posted - 2016.04.10 19:43:01 - [857] - Quote good ******* luck with that
Carrion Crow Dropship 21	Posted - 2016.04.10 20:29:01 - [858] - Quote CCP you are probably going to implement this, no matter how much negative feedback you get. However, before you do I ask you to consider this from the persective of new players ( who I belive this is aimed at ). The thrill and lure of eve is not from quicker skill progression or shooting a predetermined rat to get a daily gift. Eve is a universe. A complex one and a dangerous one. The sense of achievement comes from accomplishing real goals in this universe: The first trip into lawless space... The shakes you get in your first pvp fight... The sense of overwhelming incredulity as you make your first solo kill... Venturing into a wormhole that says "deadly"... If anything, new kids should be rewarded with "skills" for hitting these amazing life stages. Not for undocking to kill some random hisec NPC. Make eve better. Make the beginning of the game mean something.
Rain6639 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3851	Posted - 2016.04.10 20:36:35 - [859] - Quote lol if you think you'll have any luck finding a high sec NPC after this
Rain6639 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3851	Posted - 2016.04.10 20:37:23 - [860] - Quote hell yes I won the high sec NPC lotto today yyyyayyyyy
Rain6639 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3851	Posted - 2016.04.10 20:38:12 - [861] - Quote I can already see the blobs waiting for the belt NPC to spawn in every system in high sec.
Lugh Crow-Slave 1856	Posted - 2016.04.10 20:59:19 - [862] - Quote Carrion Crow wrote: CCP you are probably going to implement this, no matter how much negative feedback you get. However, before you do I ask you to consider this from the persective of new players ( who I belive this is aimed at ). The thrill and lure of eve is not from quicker skill progression or shooting a predetermined rat to get a daily gift. Eve is a universe. A complex one and a dangerous one. The sense of achievement comes from accomplishing real goals in this universe: The first trip into lawless space... The shakes you get in your first pvp fight... The sense of overwhelming incredulity as you make your first solo kill... Venturing into a wormhole that says "deadly"... If anything, new kids should be rewarded with "skills" for hitting these amazing life stages. Not for undocking to kill some random hisec NPC. Make eve better. Make the beginning of the game mean something. See sp for achievements is much better as this guides people and shows them what they can do not what they need to do . And it's up to the player at what pace they want to do it. Citadel worm hole tax
April Valentis The Praxus Consortium 1	Posted - 2016.04.10 20:59:36 - [863] - Quote Hey CPP, Where do I hand in my 15 Boar Asses? I need to keep Azeroth, I mean New Eden, safe!
Chjna the Goose Flock 19	Posted - 2016.04.10 21:09:09 - [864] - Quote April Valentis wrote: Hey CPP, Where do I hand in my 15 Boar Asses? I need to keep Azeroth, I mean New Eden, safe! Prob in the "New Eden Store" where you can find all the other stuff that never should have existed in the first place. Edit: appart from t2 BPO:s Remove T2 BPOs
blazigen Militaris Industries Northern Coalition. 11	Posted - 2016.04.10 21:12:54 - [865] - Quote Yeah no. This sucks. Get this out of the game RIGHT dafuq now.
Sean Parisi Blackrise Vanguard 724	Posted - 2016.04.10 21:20:28 - [866] - Quote As someone with 130m sp I support this. I do believe that maybe the rewards could be banked over a 3 day period and some of the requirements could be modified to make the act of obtaining the SP more dangerous. But over all the ability to actually be rewarded for activity (which is apparently casual?) is not bad as long as it does not become main stay. It will encourage more interaction and allow new players to feel like their activity has slightly more value. The only issue I really see with this is the compulsive need for min maxers to log on daily even when they do not want to. Otherwise I see no issue - it is just another incentive. In regards to the argument of "making sp out of nowhere" - well; whenever a skill injector is used it can possible destroy up 400k SP into thin air. Most of the negativity with this seems to just be a twitch reaction of "ermg its a daily from WoW".
Lugh Crow-Slave 1856	Posted - 2016.04.10 21:21:41 - [867] - Quote I really do like what was brought up on the last page (better than this) Where instead of dailies for SP or was one time achievements. Of course that's only if this was meant to help new players and not to boost daily log ins:/ Citadel worm hole tax
Lugh Crow-Slave 1856	Posted - 2016.04.10 21:23:37 - [868] - Quote Double Citadel worm hole tax
Lugh Crow-Slave 1856	Posted - 2016.04.10 21:24:24 - [869] - Quote Sean Parisi wrote: As someone with 130m sp I support this. I do believe that maybe the rewards could be banked over a 3 day period and some of the requirements could be modified to make the act of obtaining the SP more dangerous. But over all the ability to actually be rewarded for activity (which is apparently casual?) is not bad as long as it does not become main stay. It will encourage more interaction and allow new players to feel like their activity has slightly more value. The only issue I really see with this is the compulsive need for min maxers to log on daily even when they do not want to. Otherwise I see no issue - it is just another incentive. In regards to the argument of "making sp out of nowhere" - well; whenever a skill injector is used it can possible destroy up 400k SP into thin air. Most of the negativity with this seems to just be a twitch reaction of "ermg its a daily from WoW". But again just because someone plays logged in why should they be rewarded over someone who plays logged out. This is coming from someone who logged in 285 days last year (at least that's what my api says) Citadel worm hole tax
Sean Parisi Blackrise Vanguard 724	Posted - 2016.04.10 21:28:24 - [870] - Quote Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Sean Parisi wrote: As someone with 130m sp I support this. I do believe that maybe the rewards could be banked over a 3 day period and some of the requirements could be modified to make the act of obtaining the SP more dangerous. But over all the ability to actually be rewarded for activity (which is apparently casual?) is not bad as long as it does not become main stay. It will encourage more interaction and allow new players to feel like their activity has slightly more value. The only issue I really see with this is the compulsive need for min maxers to log on daily even when they do not want to. Otherwise I see no issue - it is just another incentive. In regards to the argument of "making sp out of nowhere" - well; whenever a skill injector is used it can possible destroy up 400k SP into thin air. Most of the negativity with this seems to just be a twitch reaction of "ermg its a daily from WoW". But again just because someone plays logged in why should they be rewarded over someone who plays logged out. This is coming from someone who logged in 285 days last year (at least that's what my api says) Sure - but you get rewarded regardless for being logged out. You could also hypothetically run +5's for that entire period while skilling up. Where as me as an active player might not have that luxury as I would be at more total risk. So if I come into the game and actively contribute daily - as I currently do. Why not? You aren't losing anything. I don't want you to stop getting SP for being logged off - but what is wrong with providing a bit more acceleration for people who do actually engage in game? The great thing about this game is I can advance while logged off - but at the same time this is not a bad incentive. Forcing people out into the world will only lead to more interaction in one form or another. For example if you are a lowsec pirate? Well - you want your SP so you warp to a belt to get it. Now you are engaged in a fight with other players because they saw you warp there.
Rain6639 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3853	Posted - 2016.04.10 21:30:51 - [871] - Quote There's also the thing players do in Recons in Faction Warfare.
Rain6639 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3853	Posted - 2016.04.10 21:32:49 - [872] - Quote A SNOO took me out into lowsec in nano Tristans and I warped to a complex to find a Rook. It was like landing on a tarantula. It was pretty great.
Rain6639 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3853	Posted - 2016.04.10 21:33:37 - [873] - Quote If belts become an incentive like this I have to say it's not a bad idea.
Lugh Crow-Slave 1856	Posted - 2016.04.10 21:41:03 - [874] - Quote Sean Parisi wrote: Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Sean Parisi wrote: As someone with 130m sp I support this. I do believe that maybe the rewards could be banked over a 3 day period and some of the requirements could be modified to make the act of obtaining the SP more dangerous. But over all the ability to actually be rewarded for activity (which is apparently casual?) is not bad as long as it does not become main stay. It will encourage more interaction and allow new players to feel like their activity has slightly more value. The only issue I really see with this is the compulsive need for min maxers to log on daily even when they do not want to. Otherwise I see no issue - it is just another incentive. In regards to the argument of "making sp out of nowhere" - well; whenever a skill injector is used it can possible destroy up 400k SP into thin air. Most of the negativity with this seems to just be a twitch reaction of "ermg its a daily from WoW". But again just because someone plays logged in why should they be rewarded over someone who plays logged out. This is coming from someone who logged in 285 days last year (at least that's what my api says) Sure - but you get rewarded regardless for being logged out. You could also hypothetically run +5's for that entire period while skilling up. Where as me as an active player might not have that luxury as I would be at more total risk. So if I come into the game and actively contribute daily - as I currently do. Why not? You aren't losing anything. I don't want you to stop getting SP for being logged off - but what is wrong with providing a bit more acceleration for people who do actually engage in game? The great thing about this game is I can advance while logged off - but at the same time this is not a bad incentive. Forcing people out into the world will only lead to more interaction in one form or another. For example if you are a lowsec pirate? Well - you want your SP so you warp to a belt to get it. Now you are engaged in a fight with other players because they saw you warp there. This idea that by being logged off I'm not interacting or participating is flawed. I do not need to be logged in to have a meaningful impact on someone or for someone to have a meaningful impact on me. And I do not get rewarded for not being logged in in fact I'm punished with a deduction of 10ksp and if I'm using +5i only gain 2k then you have the ppl that log in Kill the rat and log out still using +5s Citadel worm hole tax
Rain6639 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3853	Posted - 2016.04.10 21:53:41 - [875] - Quote would you find it more agreeable if it was 50 SP per NPC with a daily limit of 10k That way your "deduction" would only realistically be realised by the most dedicated players who shoot 200 NPCs in one day. Perhaps you can then admit the problem is that you just won't undock for whatever reason?
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 27313	Posted - 2016.04.10 22:00:17 - [876] - Quote Sean Parisi wrote: I don't want you to stop getting SP for being logged off - but what is wrong with providing a bit more acceleration for people who do actually engage in game? Because it's not necessary. And in this particular case, mainly because the proposal does nothing of the kind GÇö quite the opposite. Rain6639 wrote: would you find it more agreeable if it was 50 SP per NPC with a daily limit of 10k That would make it even worse since at that point, it's no longer just a fundamentally idiotic idea GÇö it's fundamentally idiotic idea connected to an even more idiotic grind.
wizzard66 Evolution Northern Coalition. 20	Posted - 2016.04.10 22:00:54 - [877] - Quote If you want people to be more active, then make EVE more attractive to play.
Rain6639 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3853	Posted - 2016.04.10 22:01:59 - [878] - Quote Tippia seriously do you have a character that has engaged in PVP or PVE ever, it would help me take you seriously right now.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 27313	Posted - 2016.04.10 22:03:47 - [879] - Quote Rain6639 wrote: Tippia seriously do you have a character that has engaged in PVP or PVE ever, it would help me take you seriously right now. Then your lack of logic and reasoning has disqualified you from being a part of this conversation, and all your arguments from being ever remotely relevant to anything ever.
Rain6639 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3853	Posted - 2016.04.10 22:08:22 - [880] - Quote I just disqualified your logic or reasoning forever pal
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 27317	Posted - 2016.04.10 22:11:19 - [881] - Quote Rain6639 wrote: I just disqualified your logic or reasoning forever pal Lol no. You see, you just outed yourself as having an entire world view that is wholly constructed on irrationality and fallacious thinking. What you do and do not take seriously is therefore about as relevant to this GÇö or indeed any GÇö topic as a duck's opinion on washing machines. You are inherently incapable of disqualifying anything because you do lack the basic faculties to draw conclusions about or make rational judgements on the world around you.
Lugh Crow-Slave 1856	Posted - 2016.04.10 22:11:21 - [882] - Quote Tippia wrote: Rain6639 wrote: Tippia seriously do you have a character that has engaged in PVP or PVE ever, it would help me take you seriously right now. Then your lack of logic and reasoning has disqualified you from being a part of this conversation, and all your arguments from being ever remotely relevant to anything ever. Lol you can't really disqualify someone from discussing a topic even if some of their post are trolls However your point about her idea making things worse is spot on and shows if she was not trolling them she does have a lack of understanding as to what is wrong with the idea Citadel worm hole tax
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 27317	Posted - 2016.04.10 22:12:58 - [883] - Quote Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Lol you can't really disqualify someone from discussing a topic even if some of their post are trolls I can't, no. But they can certainly do it themselves, much like how he just did.
Rain6639 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3853	Posted - 2016.04.10 22:12:58 - [884] - Quote It's an uncomfortable imperfect carrot, EVE tends to have those.
beakerax Pator Tech School 264	Posted - 2016.04.10 22:32:23 - [885] - Quote Someone on the other thread described this as "carrot on a stick". I like that. Chase the carrot, or you get the stick.
Lugh Crow-Slave 1856	Posted - 2016.04.10 22:34:31 - [886] - Quote beakerax wrote: Someone on the other thread described this as "carrot on a stick". I like that. Chase the carrot, or you get the stick. Lol I think it's more chase the carrot or get scraps Citadel worm hole tax
Rain6639 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3853	Posted - 2016.04.10 22:34:41 - [887] - Quote actually it's chase the carrot or you get the no carrot. I forego training implants in my PVP characters, same thing.
Lugh Crow-Slave 1857	Posted - 2016.04.10 22:45:02 - [888] - Quote Rain6639 wrote: actually it's chase the carrot or you get the no carrot. I forego training implants in my PVP characters, same thing. But you can still actively engage in your playstyle and use the implants you just choose not to. People will have to play the way ccp wants for them to get this sp Not to mention many people already want to forgo training implants and attributes because there is extra risk with some styles of play compared to others with no extra gain Citadel worm hole tax
Rain6639 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3853	Posted - 2016.04.10 22:46:49 - [889] - Quote wat
Lugh Crow-Slave 1857	Posted - 2016.04.10 22:51:33 - [890] - Quote Rain6639 wrote: wat You can pvp with implants You can't kill a rat without logging in Citadel worm hole tax
Rain6639 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3853	Posted - 2016.04.10 23:02:13 - [891] - Quote I can not pvp without logging in too scratch that, what I should say is you've lost me, and I think anyone else too.
Lugh Crow-Slave 1857	Posted - 2016.04.10 23:04:19 - [892] - Quote Rain6639 wrote: I can not pvp without logging in too scratch that, what I should say is you've lost me, and I think anyone else too. Implants are not the same as dailies One forces a playstyles the other makes playstyles riskier Also you most certainly can pvp without logging in Citadel worm hole tax
Rain6639 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3854	Posted - 2016.04.10 23:07:18 - [893] - Quote I'll just pretend my goal was to misconstrue the discussion and that I've succeeded.
Lugh Crow-Slave 1859	Posted - 2016.04.10 23:08:39 - [894] - Quote Rain6639 wrote: I'll just pretend my goal was to misconstrue the discussion and that I've succeeded. Lol not like it mattered to ccp in the first place there is no way they won't implement this Citadel worm hole tax
Rain6639 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3854	Posted - 2016.04.10 23:13:39 - [895] - Quote and it will be a whole new world. I just want to share some basic advice going forward. CCP will do what they want. Assuming that is true, what's important as an individual player is making sure you get over the feelings and try to make best with how it changes things. Just go with it.
Rain6639 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3854	Posted - 2016.04.10 23:15:04 - [896] - Quote also don't try to logic crazy people who have their own agenda.
Rain6639 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3854	Posted - 2016.04.10 23:16:04 - [897] - Quote I'm definitely not talking about CCP, just what makes for a happier life in general.
Ravcharas Infinite Point Violence of Action. 460	Posted - 2016.04.10 23:16:59 - [898] - Quote Rain6639 wrote: I'm definitely not talking about CCP, just what makes for a happier life in general. CCP should give you 10k sp to stop posting
Lugh Crow-Slave 1859	Posted - 2016.04.10 23:27:52 - [899] - Quote Rain6639 wrote: and it will be a whole new world. I just want to share some basic advice going forward. CCP will do what they want. Assuming that is true, what's important as an individual player is making sure you get over the feelings and try to make best with how it changes things. Just go with it. Know what I think I would feel much better if ccp did one of two things A. Clearly explain how they belive yelling people how and how often to play their game fits what they feel eve is Even if what they feel eve is is differant from what they felt in the past at least be upfront about it. Or have the respect to tell us this really is nothing more than an attempt at raising numbers Now I know I won't get this answer just because there is no way they can read post by post and see this but I suppose I'll try Citadel worm hole tax
Kym Mena World Burning 0	Posted - 2016.04.10 23:43:28 - [900] - Quote Rise, It seems that, by posting this terribad idea on your way out the door on a Friday, this was more of a heads up of something will happen rather than something that you are thinking about implementing. The vast majority of this thread is speaking out against this idea and its ilk, something you must have suspected would happen, and I can't help but wonder why something that seems to have come down from on-high (i.e. the bean counters trying to impress EA with false metrics) was posted in a "Feedback Center". What I would like to know, foremost, is whether this is an idea being hashed out or a fiasco that is going to be rammed down our throats whether it's good for the sandbox or not. (Hint: It's not.) Eve is a sandbox, it is advertised as a sandbox and we like it as a sandbox. This idea is of a kind that will start to build a path into our sandbox and has the potential to turn Eve into the kind of game that leaves me looking for a new game, the kind of game that Eve used to be back when the game mattered more than the business. This is not a threat to unsub, but these are my thoughts on what I believe the outcome of this idea could be if it is not reined in quickly. If this idea is truly an attempt to make new players feel like they aren't so far behind, hide an amount of SP behind the Opportunities and let them explore and learn the game while they earn bonus SP and find their way in the sandbox. Whether you let established accounts access that SP is up for discussion. I hope you see that the players do not want this, as we value the sandbox, and I hope you can make that point to those behind this idea who, I believe, didn't have the intestinal fortitude to present it themselves and instead made a poor attempt at disguising it as a feature rather than a gimmick to make themselves look better. While, as I mentioned, I am not threatening to unsub (not so long as Eve is still a sandbox) I am telling you that I will not be participating in this gimmick with any of my characters, "free" SP be damned. (Remember, the code word is "orthodox")
Rain6639 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3854	Posted - 2016.04.11 00:16:33 - [901] - Quote Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Rain6639 wrote: and it will be a whole new world. I just want to share some basic advice going forward. CCP will do what they want. Assuming that is true, what's important as an individual player is making sure you get over the feelings and try to make best with how it changes things. Just go with it. Know what I think I would feel much better if ccp did one of two things A. Clearly explain how they belive yelling people how and how often to play their game fits what they feel eve is Even if what they feel eve is is differant from what they felt in the past at least be upfront about it. Or have the respect to tell us this really is nothing more than an attempt at raising numbers Now I know I won't get this answer just because there is no way they can read post by post and see this but I suppose I'll try Their ability to give levelheaded explanations about the motivations behind changes left with Soundwave
Lugh Crow-Slave 1859	Posted - 2016.04.11 00:43:21 - [902] - Quote Rain6639 wrote: Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Rain6639 wrote: and it will be a whole new world. I just want to share some basic advice going forward. CCP will do what they want. Assuming that is true, what's important as an individual player is making sure you get over the feelings and try to make best with how it changes things. Just go with it. Know what I think I would feel much better if ccp did one of two things A. Clearly explain how they belive yelling people how and how often to play their game fits what they feel eve is Even if what they feel eve is is differant from what they felt in the past at least be upfront about it. Or have the respect to tell us this really is nothing more than an attempt at raising numbers Now I know I won't get this answer just because there is no way they can read post by post and see this but I suppose I'll try Their ability to give levelheaded explanations about the motivations behind changes left with Soundwave falcons pretty good about it to.. though i havent seen anything from him is he gone too? Citadel worm hole tax
Rain6639 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3854	Posted - 2016.04.11 00:52:25 - [903] - Quote Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: falcons pretty good about it to.. though i havent seen anything from him is he gone too? As far as I know Falcon is still kicking. He's okay and he has that older brother type of thing going on but he's still not how Soundwave used to be, very forthcoming especially in person.
Shallanna Yassavi Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 120	Posted - 2016.04.11 00:53:37 - [904] - Quote I've got an alternative way to put "free" SP in the mix which won't turn it into a daily grind: With every skillbook comes enough SP to train it to level 2. It will be one-time and a lot more newbie-friendly, and won't be enough to be worth farming. A signature :o
Lugh Crow-Slave 1863	Posted - 2016.04.11 00:58:36 - [905] - Quote Rain6639 wrote: Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: falcons pretty good about it to.. though i havent seen anything from him is he gone too? As far as I know Falcon is still kicking. He's okay and he has that older brother type of thing going on but he's still not how Soundwave used to be, very forthcoming especially in person. oh certainly not as good as soundwave but there is a chance with his still there to get a clear answer Citadel worm hole tax
Kovl Jita Flipping Inc. 10	Posted - 2016.04.11 01:07:26 - [906] - Quote Dailies Dailies Dailies Dailies Dailies Dailies Dailies Dailies For those still wondering why it's bad. And 1 mob (erm 1 rat) is only the beginning. Don't do this ** in this game please, no matter what "rewards" get applied (though we all know very well why SP was chosen). Many people (especially new people for which SP is paramount and injectors are ISK-wise out of reach (whales aside) /and/ coming from other themepark games where daily is literally religion) /will/ be doing this ** around the clock, and repetivity will quicly make them hate it (and in turn EvE).
Zoltan Cole Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde 3	Posted - 2016.04.11 01:13:18 - [907] - Quote Moac Tor wrote: Zoltan Cole wrote: Yet, the net whole is more players online. That's neat -- the game progression being mostly offline is an absolutely awful design for an MMO SP Progression happens offline, yet game progression certainly happens online (or at least online in the meta sense). Eve progression is a hard concept to grasp for most newbies, progression depends solely upon what goal you set yourself and not grinding towards some arbitrary level cap. Progression for the majority of demographics is bigger and better stuff. If it seems so interesting, look it up; but trying to claim, in a situation where SP is patched in every other expansion, that there's no problem is just baseless.
Lugh Crow-Slave 1868	Posted - 2016.04.11 01:21:37 - [908] - Quote Zoltan Cole wrote: Moac Tor wrote: Zoltan Cole wrote: Yet, the net whole is more players online. That's neat -- the game progression being mostly offline is an absolutely awful design for an MMO SP Progression happens offline, yet game progression certainly happens online (or at least online in the meta sense). Eve progression is a hard concept to grasp for most newbies, progression depends solely upon what goal you set yourself and not grinding towards some arbitrary level cap. Progression for the majority of demographics is bigger and better stuff. If it seems so interesting, look it up; but trying to claim, in a situation where SP is patched in every other expansion, that there's no problem is just baseless. \what? not 100% sure what you said but progression is just moving forward with a goal the idea that its something bigger and better is a little juvenile Citadel worm hole tax
Rain6639 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3854	Posted - 2016.04.11 01:27:42 - [909] - Quote Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Rain6639 wrote: Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: falcons pretty good about it to.. though i havent seen anything from him is he gone too? As far as I know Falcon is still kicking. He's okay and he has that older brother type of thing going on but he's still not how Soundwave used to be, very forthcoming especially in person. oh certainly not as good as soundwave but there is a chance with his still there to get a clear answer watch fanfest and eve vegas presentations by both devs consecutively and tell me what you think
Zoltan Cole Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde 3	Posted - 2016.04.11 01:30:20 - [910] - Quote Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Zoltan Cole wrote: Moac Tor wrote: SP Progression happens offline, yet game progression certainly happens online (or at least online in the meta sense). Eve progression is a hard concept to grasp for most newbies, progression depends solely upon what goal you set yourself and not grinding towards some arbitrary level cap. Progression for the majority of demographics is bigger and better stuff. If it seems so interesting, look it up; but trying to claim, in a situation where SP is patched in every other expansion, that there's no problem is just baseless. \what? not 100% sure what you said but progression is just moving forward with a goal the idea that its something bigger and better is a little juvenile It's only "bigger and better" because that's how the game generally sets up progression rewards. Bigger ships are more effective at making ISK, and ordinarily at engaging multiple targets (because there's more of a chance they're smaller and weaker). If that's juvenile, then so is this game. The point is to experience the whole game.. Tippia wrote: Sean Parisi wrote: I don't want you to stop getting SP for being logged off - but what is wrong with providing a bit more acceleration for people who do actually engage in game? Because it's not necessary. And in this particular case, mainly because the proposal does nothing of the kind GÇö quite the opposite. How is it not necessary? Why else would they add it.. As stated, with all the SP patching, there is a problem for keeping fresh characters subbed, clearly.
Lugh Crow-Slave 1868	Posted - 2016.04.11 01:33:49 - [911] - Quote Zoltan Cole wrote: Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Zoltan Cole wrote: Moac Tor wrote: SP Progression happens offline, yet game progression certainly happens online (or at least online in the meta sense). Eve progression is a hard concept to grasp for most newbies, progression depends solely upon what goal you set yourself and not grinding towards some arbitrary level cap. Progression for the majority of demographics is bigger and better stuff. If it seems so interesting, look it up; but trying to claim, in a situation where SP is patched in every other expansion, that there's no problem is just baseless. \what? not 100% sure what you said but progression is just moving forward with a goal the idea that its something bigger and better is a little juvenile It's only "bigger and better" because that's how the game generally sets up progression rewards. Bigger ships are more effective at making ISK, and ordinarily at engaging multiple targets (because there's more of a chance they're smaller and weaker). If that's juvenile, then so is this game. The point is to experience the whole game.. bigger ships are generally worse when it comes to pvp and a titan sure as hell is not the best thing at making isk in eve bigger is not better Citadel worm hole tax
Caleb Seremshur Gladiators of Rage RAZOR Alliance 757	Posted - 2016.04.11 01:34:09 - [912] - Quote Aka CCP looked at f2p games and their strategies to get people to log in. A free 5 hrs of sp just for logging in one a day and killing an npc? Sure. Easy done. Veteran and solo/small gang PVP advocate.
Zoltan Cole Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde 3	Posted - 2016.04.11 01:42:24 - [913] - Quote Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Zoltan Cole wrote: Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Zoltan Cole wrote: Moac Tor wrote: SP Progression happens offline, yet game progression certainly happens online (or at least online in the meta sense). Eve progression is a hard concept to grasp for most newbies, progression depends solely upon what goal you set yourself and not grinding towards some arbitrary level cap. Progression for the majority of demographics is bigger and better stuff. If it seems so interesting, look it up; but trying to claim, in a situation where SP is patched in every other expansion, that there's no problem is just baseless. \what? not 100% sure what you said but progression is just moving forward with a goal the idea that its something bigger and better is a little juvenile It's only "bigger and better" because that's how the game generally sets up progression rewards. Bigger ships are more effective at making ISK, and ordinarily at engaging multiple targets (because there's more of a chance they're smaller and weaker). If that's juvenile, then so is this game. The point is to experience the whole game.. bigger ships are generally worse when it comes to pvp and a titan sure as hell is not the best thing at making isk in eve bigger is not better also what do you mean they keep patching sp? they added in a cash grab and about a year ago altered starting sp that's it this has nothing to do with an SP balance issue and most of us aren't even upset over the sp part this is just a poorly vailed attempt to manipulate players into logging on and increasing their log in numbers A vague claim and a single example in no manner mitigates the whole trend. Larger (and more expensive) ships trend toward making more ISK, and no, flown properly, larger ships are not generally worse at PvP. That's because the meta has settled at T2s and T3s, so they're required to stay on field. Increased starter SP. SP trading. SP for ratting. Wew.
Lugh Crow-Slave 1869	Posted - 2016.04.11 01:57:45 - [914] - Quote bigger ships are not better they are different the reason cruisers tend to be flown more is because they are more versatile being able to handle both large and small ships along with not being too slow when roaming. the lack of speed and versatility is what makes larger ships less common in pvp and blops titans dreads along with several t1 battle ships are not better at making isk than ships smaller and cheaper than them Citadel worm hole tax
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 27320	Posted - 2016.04.11 02:32:40 - [915] - Quote Zoltan Cole wrote: How is it not necessary? Because engaging in the game has all kinds of rewards as it is. On top of that, adding skill progression to that list has already proven to create very perverse incentives that objectively make the game worse. We know this because it has already been attempted, with predictable results. Quote: Why else would they add it. Because it artificially inflates one of their key metrics for success without them actually making any of the changes that would improve that metric by being successful. They're trying to bribe their way to success rather than do any actual work. Quote: If that's juvenile, then so is this game. Bigger is not better in this game.
Wulfi Ozan Spiritus Draconis Spaceship Bebop 0	Posted - 2016.04.11 02:44:55 - [916] - Quote can we please stop trying to make the game easier.... your aready walking a fine line with the skill injectors and have a good SP sink there but please dont make us like wow for god sake NO!.... skill injectors in on the edge but okay because its still some guy training the skillpoints you are injecting but ny adding skillpoints out of the blue its just getting infladed. Better idea get people to finnish all the tutorials and give them a reward for that if you need to help new players. the reason it goes south for some mmo is because they make it too easy and people loose interest
Hopelesshobo Tactical Nuclear Penguin's 591	Posted - 2016.04.11 03:11:58 - [917] - Quote This really needs to be expanded to all forms of professions, and not be restricted to warping to a belt, killing a rat and logging off. All of the other choices should be just as easy as shooting a belt rat. A few examples... -Scanning any signature to 100% -Put 1,000,000 isk worth of stuff on the market -Completing a cycle on a mining laser -Completing any mission -Start or complete, research or production on a blueprint etc Lowering the average to make you look better since 2012.
Mara Tessidar Hole Violence Goonswarm Federation 1170	Posted - 2016.04.11 03:16:48 - [918] - Quote What a dumb mechanic. I play Eve to get away from grindy bullshit.
Lugh Crow-Slave 1870	Posted - 2016.04.11 03:24:42 - [919] - Quote Hopelesshobo wrote: This really needs to be expanded to all forms of professions, and not be restricted to warping to a belt, killing a rat and logging off. All of the other choices should be just as easy as shooting a belt rat. A few examples... -Scanning any signature to 100% -Put 1,000,000 isk worth of stuff on the market -Completing a cycle on a mining laser -Completing any mission -Start or complete, research or production on a blueprint etc no this really needs to not be implemented as there is no way to cover every play style in a balanced way Citadel worm hole tax
Rain6639 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3854	Posted - 2016.04.11 03:28:07 - [920] - Quote Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Hopelesshobo wrote: This really needs to be expanded to all forms of professions, and not be restricted to warping to a belt, killing a rat and logging off. All of the other choices should be just as easy as shooting a belt rat. A few examples... -Scanning any signature to 100% -Put 1,000,000 isk worth of stuff on the market -Completing a cycle on a mining laser -Completing any mission -Start or complete, research or production on a blueprint etc no this really needs to not be implemented as there is no way to cover every play style in a balanced way I kind of thought it was a good point, perhaps the daily bonus could cycle between different tasks.
Lugh Crow-Slave 1870	Posted - 2016.04.11 03:34:35 - [921] - Quote Rain6639 wrote: I kind of thought it was a good point, perhaps the daily bonus could cycle between different tasks. lol so not only does everyone now have to grind but now everyone needs to grind crap they have 0 interest in? Citadel worm hole tax
baltec1 Bat Country Pandemic Legion 17544	Posted - 2016.04.11 04:20:11 - [922] - Quote Big Lynx wrote: People who are moaning that they "have to" log in everyday to compete with others in this questionable skillpoint-race should immediatly switch of their computers, go out and in a silent moment start to address a question to themselves: "Do I really want to let a pc game control my every day life?" (indepentently from the question how CCP will assemble this mechanic) We do turn off our computers and go outside, hence the issues with punishing people who don't play every day. Training SP has always been an equal playing field between people who play all day every day and people who can only play every so often, this free SP for logging in every day flies in the face of one of the big selling points of EVE.
Rain6639 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3854	Posted - 2016.04.11 04:28:38 - [923] - Quote Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Rain6639 wrote: I kind of thought it was a good point, perhaps the daily bonus could cycle between different tasks. lol so not only does everyone now have to grind but now everyone needs to grind crap they have 0 interest in? you don't have to do anything. It's not your primary source of SP, it's an incentive.
baltec1 Bat Country Pandemic Legion 17545	Posted - 2016.04.11 04:50:24 - [924] - Quote Rain6639 wrote: Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Rain6639 wrote: I kind of thought it was a good point, perhaps the daily bonus could cycle between different tasks. lol so not only does everyone now have to grind but now everyone needs to grind crap they have 0 interest in? you don't have to do anything. It's not your primary source of SP, it's an incentive. It's a punishment for not playing.
Masao Kurata Many Much Mechanics 473	Posted - 2016.04.11 05:06:06 - [925] - Quote baltec1 wrote: It's a punishment for not playing. I think you mean not playing or not playing the way CCP decides you should. Hell, even people who spend most of their time doing metagaming without undocking can be valuable players.
Rain6637 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 33492	Posted - 2016.04.11 05:38:32 - [926] - Quote Better yet, make the activity randomized instead of uniform for everyone each day. Help, I can't download EVE President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
Sentamon Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 2341	Posted - 2016.04.11 06:02:31 - [927] - Quote baltec1 wrote: Rain6639 wrote: Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Rain6639 wrote: I kind of thought it was a good point, perhaps the daily bonus could cycle between different tasks. lol so not only does everyone now have to grind but now everyone needs to grind crap they have 0 interest in? you don't have to do anything. It's not your primary source of SP, it's an incentive. It's a punishment for not playing. punishment is listening to the same old tired punishment argument ~ Professional Forum Alt -á~
Shallanna Yassavi Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 120	Posted - 2016.04.11 06:04:13 - [928] - Quote Everyone's fixated on the 10k SP for shooting a rat-numbers, the tedium of a stupid daily. This is one of the things they would have to do to make F2P EVE. If they add more do-this-for-SP tasks, it will become a functional alternative to queueing up skills. The next logical steps are ye olde XP "boosters" and making subscription optional. A signature :o
Sabriz Adoudel Move along there is nothing here 5775	Posted - 2016.04.11 06:42:43 - [929] - Quote EvilweaselFinance wrote: please count highsec miners as npcs as there are no meaningful differences between the two The NPCs have better AI. On a serious note: This is a BAD idea. Like daily quests in WOW, It's a big 'get f***ed' to players that work and can't log in every day. It's one thing if there is a clear limit. "This bonus is available 50 times per character ever". Then you'll get the benefits over time - in 50 days if you log on frequently, over six months if you do not. It's totally different if it is without limit and just becomes a morning chore. Log in, undock the interceptor, warp to a belt, kill one rat, dock up, log to alt, repeat. "Want to come on a PVP fleet?" "Sorry can't, got to take the 6 alts out to kill a rat each" This bad idea belongs in the dustbin. I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com Sabriz's Rule: "Any time someone argues for a game change claiming it is a quality of life change, the change is actually a game balance change".
Lugh Crow-Slave 1871	Posted - 2016.04.11 06:47:27 - [930] - Quote Shallanna Yassavi wrote: Everyone's fixated on the 10k SP for shooting a rat-numbers, the tedium of a stupid daily. This is one of the things they would have to do to make F2P EVE. If they add more do-this-for-SP tasks, it will become a functional alternative to queueing up skills. The next logical steps are ye olde XP "boosters" and making subscription optional. ... we don't want a f2p eve f2p is what happens to a subscription mmo on its last legs and the one rat for 10ksp is not what we are stuck on what we are stuck on is ccp telling us how to play Citadel worm hole tax
Luscius Uta Anomalous Existence Low-Class 207	Posted - 2016.04.11 07:08:32 - [931] - Quote If this happened few years ago, I would be excited about it. But nowadays I rarely shoot NPCs and most of my income comes from station trading and T2 manufacturing on my alt. I don't mind the game giving bonus SP to active players, but I mind when a supposedly sandbox game tells them what they should do to receive those SP. Either make sure that different ingame activities are rewarded or don't introduce this at all. Workarounds are not bugfixes.
Valia Fournier Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 0	Posted - 2016.04.11 07:12:52 - [932] - Quote So to sum up: It breaks the sandbox by telling players what to do and when they must do it Breaks the "No grind for XP (skills)" core dynamic eve has. One ship is not a grind, it's the principal. Opens Pandora's box to additional "grind for xp (skills)" implementations in the future Punishes players who can't log on or aren't motivated to do X activity Copycats other games instead of adding a new creative game mechanic Treats the symptom of people not logging in rather than curing the disease (lack of group gameplay / meaningful objectives) Devalues activities not included in this system (logistics/marketing/corp management/whatever) Causes player burnout and is more likely to cause people to cancel subs sooner rather than later. This is not a problem of CCP trying to give players additional ways to add skillpoints (although that would devalue them), it is the method of implementation of Dailies/etc. There are other solutions to the newbro problem: higher starting skill point total, faster training for first 6 months, SP reward for completing opportunities and career agents, SP loot drops/LP store purchases that can be traded by players.
Red zeon Sacred Templars Aggression. 26	Posted - 2016.04.11 07:25:24 - [933] - Quote PLEACE CCP! NO! I have 4acc, and i dont feel like undocking and go shooting a npc wich i will feel i would have to. making eve more of a chore.
Iam Widdershins Puppies and Christmas 905	Posted - 2016.04.11 07:31:38 - [934] - Quote Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Iam Widdershins wrote: After thinking about this a couple days, I think I can give some feedback. This should diminish over time, perhaps at the same rate that skill injectors' effectiveness does. I would also be all for having the cooldown timer apply per account, rather than letting every single character slot on every single account do this every day. Here's my justification: If it takes you 2 minutes to log in, find and kill an NPC, and log out, that's circa 200 million ISK per hour of returns you're getting during those 2 minutes. If you have 2 or 3 accounts, you are strongly incentivized to doing this every single day on all 6, 9... 12? characters. That's the natural course to take when min-maxing, and it's not fun gameplay. It just isn't. How could it be? It's mostly logging in and out and warping, and it's about as boring as gameplay can possibly get outside of watching ice miners cycle. Now, I'm not totally against this idea. It's fantastic for new players: that's like three hours of training time a day ez. It's also good for older players: having other slots on your accounts, you can give them that bonus sp and dump that sp into basic skills like industrials, scanning, trade, touchplanet, etc. But being strongly incentivized to do this on every single character on your account, every day, from the very beginning, is gonna grow old pretty darn fast. Except CCP isn't thinking of game balance they are just wanting the number of accounts logging in every day to go up The difference between you and me is I'm actually attempting to provide constructive feedback. Lobbying for your right to delete your signature
Lugh Crow-Slave 1872	Posted - 2016.04.11 07:42:39 - [935] - Quote Luscius Uta wrote: If this happened few years ago, I would be excited about it. But nowadays I rarely shoot NPCs and most of my income comes from station trading and T2 manufacturing on my alt. I don't mind the game giving bonus SP to active players, but I mind when a supposedly sandbox game tells them what they should do to receive those SP. Either make sure that different ingame activities are rewarded or don't introduce this at all. so your okay with ccp telling people how to play and how often just so long as it fits what you do. as has been stated b4 just because you are not logged in does not mean you are not actively playing the game Citadel worm hole tax
Terrorfrodo Renegade Hobbits for Mordor 719	Posted - 2016.04.11 08:00:58 - [936] - Quote With EVE getting older and older and the distance between eager, hyper-active newbies and the average veteran player growing, I think it makes sense to start rewarding activity in this way, even if it obviously is a step closer to WoW-like grinding games. However, maybe it would be better to not give the reward for just any NPC... as proposed, it will be enough to warp into a hisec belt and shoot a 10k rat, which takes 2 minutes and poses zero risk. How about the reward is only triggered if the NPC was killed in low or null sec? Or only half the reward for hisec. This way new players are encouraged to leave hisec earlier and players in general have to take a minimum of risk for the reward. .
Lugh Crow-Slave 1872	Posted - 2016.04.11 08:05:43 - [937] - Quote Terrorfrodo wrote: With EVE getting older and older and the distance between eager, hyper-active newbies and the average veteran player growing, I think it makes sense to start rewarding activity in this way, even if it obviously is a step closer to WoW-like grinding games. However, maybe it would be better to not give the reward for just any NPC... as proposed, it will be enough to warp into a hisec belt and shoot a 10k rat, which takes 2 minutes and poses zero risk. How about the reward is only triggered if the NPC was killed in low or null sec? Or only half the reward for hisec. This way new players are encouraged to leave hisec earlier and players in general have to take a minimum of risk for the reward. but that is still forcing ppl into one type of game play its not getting new players sp that is the problem. its telling players how to play that is the problem Citadel worm hole tax
Lan Wang Knights of the Posing Meat FETID 2641	Posted - 2016.04.11 08:07:26 - [938] - Quote yeah lets force newbies into low and null to get 10k sp, thats fine me and my friends will shoot them while we are gatecamping then watch them rage on the forums at ccp FETID now recruiting pvp pilots & corporations \| lowsec pvp & piracy - Join FETID Loyalist to Angel Cartel & Serpentis
kuner kunelebe Tempus Stabilis LowSechnaya Sholupen 25	Posted - 2016.04.11 08:10:05 - [939] - Quote first of all sorry for my bad eng but i can't say keep silence. So i thing daily missions in eve is a bad idea, but a daily missions in that 0.1 alfa desing is worst ever that's why : In WoW or other korean like games daily mission designed for limitess content , for example when u reached max lvl u start grinding daily missions to get all of some set ( tier1 pve set or tier 5 pvp set, dosnt no matter ) when u reached it u stop to make daily , but potential sp capability in EVE is unreacheble, so in case of than game desing u will gain worst ever compulsion to make the same thing day-to-day week-to-week year-to-year But u want change something ? so i have an great idea: Lets make some ded-space places which one is needed to be scanned first which gives 10 kk sp for some mission ( for a choise of capsuler) scanning mission/transport mission/caribear mission . while capsuler make it he gains 10 k sp. that must be only in highsec (for newbies only). BUT Lets move all the 4 lvl agent from hisec to low sec, lets delete sansha incursions from high sec. lets divide twice all the highsec asteroid belt capabilities. Compare to dev-blog topic that kind of game desing have many aadvantages : - Content for a newbie pilot which allow them to grow up faster. - Daily missions to newbies like in other MMORPG , they must like for first time - Moving npc-like players ( hisec miners , static 4 lvl runners ) to explore new space, and try new content. IMHO old players dont need daily missions, they have what to do here , but for newbies it can be good. IMHO no one of oler players will go to hisec for scanning that conent coz 10 k SP is not enough price for such movings , if someone be so greedy to go and steal that content from newbies it will generate additional traffic in border zones, which will rise up pvp activity. that must be scanned sites or dedspace places to showing for new players that capsulers in eve must compete for resourses,territory, etc .
Terrorfrodo Renegade Hobbits for Mordor 719	Posted - 2016.04.11 08:16:55 - [940] - Quote Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Terrorfrodo wrote: With EVE getting older and older and the distance between eager, hyper-active newbies and the average veteran player growing, I think it makes sense to start rewarding activity in this way, even if it obviously is a step closer to WoW-like grinding games. However, maybe it would be better to not give the reward for just any NPC... as proposed, it will be enough to warp into a hisec belt and shoot a 10k rat, which takes 2 minutes and poses zero risk. How about the reward is only triggered if the NPC was killed in low or null sec? Or only half the reward for hisec. This way new players are encouraged to leave hisec earlier and players in general have to take a minimum of risk for the reward. but that is still forcing ppl into one type of game play its not getting new players sp that is the problem. its telling players how to play that is the problem Maybe, but killing a single NPC is generic enough to accomodate most playstyles. -You want to mine? There are rats in belts, just kill one with your drones. -Missions, anomalies, belt ratting? Well, you kill rats anyway. -PvP? No big deal to find some rat while you're hunting to 'prove' your activity and get the reward. -Market? Or manufacturing/industry? Ok, you're out of luck :p But most likely you sit in Jita/hisec and it takes 2 minutes to undock, kill some weak rat in a belt and then go back to business. Of course it will be easy to get the reward without actually doing anything meaningful. But I guess the idea is that if you already baited a player into logging in and shoot a rat, there is always a chance that he will stay a little longer and do something meaningful, providing content for everyone. Thinking about myself this may well work, many days I kinda plan to play EVE but I'm too lazy to actually log in... but if I'm baited by a corp ping or now this new feature, there is a good chance I will stay and play for several hours. .
baltec1 Bat Country Pandemic Legion 17546	Posted - 2016.04.11 08:23:48 - [941] - Quote Terrorfrodo wrote: Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Terrorfrodo wrote: With EVE getting older and older and the distance between eager, hyper-active newbies and the average veteran player growing, I think it makes sense to start rewarding activity in this way, even if it obviously is a step closer to WoW-like grinding games. However, maybe it would be better to not give the reward for just any NPC... as proposed, it will be enough to warp into a hisec belt and shoot a 10k rat, which takes 2 minutes and poses zero risk. How about the reward is only triggered if the NPC was killed in low or null sec? Or only half the reward for hisec. This way new players are encouraged to leave hisec earlier and players in general have to take a minimum of risk for the reward. but that is still forcing ppl into one type of game play its not getting new players sp that is the problem. its telling players how to play that is the problem Maybe, but killing a single NPC is generic enough to accomodate most playstyles. -You want to mine? There are rats in belts, just kill one with your drones. -Missions, anomalies, belt ratting? Well, you kill rats anyway. -PvP? No big deal to find some rat while you're hunting to 'prove' your activity and get the reward. -Market? Or manufacturing/industry? Ok, you're out of luck :p But most likely you sit in Jita/hisec and it takes 2 minutes to undock, kill some weak rat in a belt and then go back to business. Of course it will be easy to get the reward without actually doing anything meaningful. But I guess the idea is that if you already baited a player into logging in and shoot a rat, there is always a chance that he will stay a little longer and do something meaningful, providing content for everyone. Thinking about myself this may well work, many days I kinda plan to play EVE but I'm too lazy to actually log in... but if I'm baited by a corp ping or now this new feature, there is a good chance I will stay and play for several hours. The best way to get people playing is to have content. The current war has done more to boost numbers logging in than anything else. Forcing people to log in to shoot a rat will do nothing to boost the number of people logged in as they will be logged back off within 5 min.
elitatwo Eve Minions The-Company 1151	Posted - 2016.04.11 08:40:18 - [942] - Quote [quote=Terrorfrodo]With EVE getting older and older and the distance between eager, hyper-active newbies and the average veteran player growing,.../quote] ...and everyone I know will have stopped reading here! I cannot hear it anymore! Make it stop. The only difference between a noob and us is that we shaped the world, the fittings, the tactics and how to not be stoopitt guides for them to do the things we did by trial and error. I wish them all to succumb in very slow agony by whatever virus is currently rating top 10. You want new people? Tell them the right stuff and advertise the right stuff, not fly titan on day one. Eve Minions is recruiting. Learn from about pvp, learn about ships and how to fly them correctly. Small gang and solo action in high, low and nullsec and w-space alike. We will teach you everything you need and want to know.
Terrorfrodo Renegade Hobbits for Mordor 721	Posted - 2016.04.11 08:40:53 - [943] - Quote baltec1 wrote: Forcing people to log in to shoot a rat will do nothing to boost the number of people logged in as they will be logged back off within 5 min. Like I said, once you sucessfully nudge someone to log in, there is always a chance that they will do more than just shoot this one rat. Maybe I planned to just kill a rat and then log off, but then I get involved in a discussion in corp, or I see someone ratting and decide to attack them, or I get attacked myself... This will not make inactive players active, but it can make active players be active more regularly. .
Sgt Ocker Kenshin. DARKNESS. 899	Posted - 2016.04.11 08:44:59 - [944] - Quote baltec1 wrote: Terrorfrodo wrote: Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Terrorfrodo wrote: With EVE getting older and older and the distance between eager, hyper-active newbies and the average veteran player growing, I think it makes sense to start rewarding activity in this way, even if it obviously is a step closer to WoW-like grinding games. However, maybe it would be better to not give the reward for just any NPC... as proposed, it will be enough to warp into a hisec belt and shoot a 10k rat, which takes 2 minutes and poses zero risk. How about the reward is only triggered if the NPC was killed in low or null sec? Or only half the reward for hisec. This way new players are encouraged to leave hisec earlier and players in general have to take a minimum of risk for the reward. but that is still forcing ppl into one type of game play its not getting new players sp that is the problem. its telling players how to play that is the problem Maybe, but killing a single NPC is generic enough to accomodate most playstyles. -You want to mine? There are rats in belts, just kill one with your drones. -Missions, anomalies, belt ratting? Well, you kill rats anyway. -PvP? No big deal to find some rat while you're hunting to 'prove' your activity and get the reward. -Market? Or manufacturing/industry? Ok, you're out of luck :p But most likely you sit in Jita/hisec and it takes 2 minutes to undock, kill some weak rat in a belt and then go back to business. Of course it will be easy to get the reward without actually doing anything meaningful. But I guess the idea is that if you already baited a player into logging in and shoot a rat, there is always a chance that he will stay a little longer and do something meaningful, providing content for everyone. Thinking about myself this may well work, many days I kinda plan to play EVE but I'm too lazy to actually log in... but if I'm baited by a corp ping or now this new feature, there is a good chance I will stay and play for several hours. The best way to get people playing is to have content. The current war has done more to boost numbers logging in than anything else. Forcing people to log in to shoot a rat will do nothing to boost the number of people logged in as they will be logged back off within 5 min. True as that may be. Think of what Eve would be like if CCP found a way to appeal to the general and largest game playing market, the 14 to 20 year old's. Opportunities and the such (dailies) are not much more than marketing tools used by companies to attract not only existing players to log in but new players to join in. My opinions are mine. If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Lan Wang Knights of the Posing Meat FETID 2641	Posted - 2016.04.11 08:48:03 - [945] - Quote Sgt Ocker wrote: baltec1 wrote: Terrorfrodo wrote: Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Terrorfrodo wrote: With EVE getting older and older and the distance between eager, hyper-active newbies and the average veteran player growing, I think it makes sense to start rewarding activity in this way, even if it obviously is a step closer to WoW-like grinding games. However, maybe it would be better to not give the reward for just any NPC... as proposed, it will be enough to warp into a hisec belt and shoot a 10k rat, which takes 2 minutes and poses zero risk. How about the reward is only triggered if the NPC was killed in low or null sec? Or only half the reward for hisec. This way new players are encouraged to leave hisec earlier and players in general have to take a minimum of risk for the reward. but that is still forcing ppl into one type of game play its not getting new players sp that is the problem. its telling players how to play that is the problem Maybe, but killing a single NPC is generic enough to accomodate most playstyles. -You want to mine? There are rats in belts, just kill one with your drones. -Missions, anomalies, belt ratting? Well, you kill rats anyway. -PvP? No big deal to find some rat while you're hunting to 'prove' your activity and get the reward. -Market? Or manufacturing/industry? Ok, you're out of luck :p But most likely you sit in Jita/hisec and it takes 2 minutes to undock, kill some weak rat in a belt and then go back to business. Of course it will be easy to get the reward without actually doing anything meaningful. But I guess the idea is that if you already baited a player into logging in and shoot a rat, there is always a chance that he will stay a little longer and do something meaningful, providing content for everyone. Thinking about myself this may well work, many days I kinda plan to play EVE but I'm too lazy to actually log in... but if I'm baited by a corp ping or now this new feature, there is a good chance I will stay and play for several hours. The best way to get people playing is to have content. The current war has done more to boost numbers logging in than anything else. Forcing people to log in to shoot a rat will do nothing to boost the number of people logged in as they will be logged back off within 5 min. True as that may be. Think of what Eve would be like if CCP found a way to appeal to the general and largest game playing market, the 14 to 20 year old's. Opportunities and the such (dailies) are not much more than marketing tools used by companies to attract not only existing players to log in but new players to join in. the best way to appeal to 14 year olds is make it f2p, tbh im not really a fan of screaming 14 year olds in my game so please dont give them that idea FETID now recruiting pvp pilots & corporations \| lowsec pvp & piracy - Join FETID Loyalist to Angel Cartel & Serpentis
Luscius Uta Anomalous Existence Low-Class 208	Posted - 2016.04.11 08:52:28 - [946] - Quote Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Luscius Uta wrote: If this happened few years ago, I would be excited about it. But nowadays I rarely shoot NPCs and most of my income comes from station trading and T2 manufacturing on my alt. I don't mind the game giving bonus SP to active players, but I mind when a supposedly sandbox game tells them what they should do to receive those SP. Either make sure that different ingame activities are rewarded or don't introduce this at all. so your okay with ccp telling people how to play and how often just so long as it fits what you do. as has been stated b4 just because you are not logged in does not mean you are not actively playing the game No I'm not, how did you come to that conclusion? I think that logging once per day to kill a single NPC is a grinding chore and just because I'm okay with CCP rewarding people who log in everyday doesn't mean that I wouldn't prefer if this system was done in a way that doesn't reward menial tasks. And people who are not logged on play the game? LOL - maybe in few rare cases, like coalition leaders. It's the number of logged players that keeps the game alive, not the number of someone's forum posts. Just like people who mererly play skill queue online don't contribute anything to the game. Workarounds are not bugfixes.
Edward Olmops Gunboat Commando 329	Posted - 2016.04.11 09:20:03 - [947] - Quote It is an absolutely good idea to give people a reason to login and to undock. The common "daily quest" pattern is something that has been heavily used throughout gaming industry to achieve this. Some games even reward just logging in and clicking "get bacon" where "bacon" gets bigger when logging in for multiple consecutive days. There ARE similar elements in EVE and interestingly, CCP has done quite a bit in the past to REMOVE them. The 24-hour-limit to the skill queue is a prominent example. Another one (bit different) are said opportunities which replaced the old tutorials. With the goal to replace mandatory rituals (do the tutorials to get their rewards) with creativity and freedom of choice (opportunities are an offer, but completely optional) I personally dislike the idea of daily quests, because they incentivize performing the same repetitive pattern, especially if you would normally not follow that pattern. But take for example Planetary Interaction. This is an activity that - by innate design - encourages you to log in, undock and do something in space on a regular basis. You can freely choose the schedule, but your efficiency improves significantly if you log in more frequently, best on a daily basis. Another example: Expeditions. By raiding certain sites, you get a chance to create a timed opportunity to do something else (you maybe would not normally do as they tend to lead you into hostile territory) for extra rewards. Conclusion: 1. I recognize that it is good for the overall health of the game if players show activity. Incentivizing activity is a good thing, could also keep the game interesting for the individual player. 2. I am against plain/dumb daily quests as they incentivize stupid repetitive pattern and decrease my "value" screen time. 3. Activities that INHERENTLY create the desire to login again and show activity are the way to go. Example: PI. Expeditions. Suggestion: Revamp / expansion on expeditions. Expeditions could have a different time window that e.g. aims for the next day. Imagine belt NPCs / hacking containers spawning additional expeditions ("opportunities"). These could e.g. be completed only 12-36 hours later for a good reward, 36-60 hours later for a somewhat worse (but still desireable) extra reward or the like if you continue with the same activity. So by doing the stuff you like, you get incentivized to do more of that stuff tomorrow or the day after.
Sgt Ocker Kenshin. DARKNESS. 899	Posted - 2016.04.11 09:51:29 - [948] - Quote Lan Wang wrote: [quote=Sgt Ocker] the best way to appeal to 14 year olds is make it f2p, tbh im not really a fan of screaming 14 year olds in my game so please dont give them that idea I'm not either but that doesn't mean CCP aren't looking at a wider audience for Eve and that either way includes a younger crowd than many of us are accustomed to. Reduce subscription costs a bit (or have a way to play for free using in game currency) add free content (dailies) and suddenly your market is open to a much wider and different audience. One daily "opportunity" isn't likely to have much impact but once you have a number of "freebies" each day - Word spreads My opinions are mine. If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Daemon Jax The Madness Network Almost Broken 1	Posted - 2016.04.11 10:05:42 - [949] - Quote Everything about this is a bad idea. If you want these opportunities to help new players, then have it scale similar to injectors, except after 5mil sp it just stops altogether. And for killing an NPC rat? That's just terrible any way you look at it. Tie it to newbie opportunity system instead, or make opportunities some kind of group pve event (pvpers can go there for targets if the event is in low/null, or maybe you can choose sides when you get there, kinda like red vs blue) that randomly spawns X events somewhere within Y hours... but make it somewhat interesting with varied objectives. Not just kill 1 rat... that's not even a good placeholder for anywhere except the test server.
Tomika Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 22	Posted - 2016.04.11 10:42:17 - [950] - Quote Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: so your okay with ccp telling people how to play They are not telling you how to play. You are just being a drama queen.
Rain6639 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3855	Posted - 2016.04.11 10:51:27 - [951] - Quote I just want to add that playing is a punishment for playing thanks
Sgt Ocker Kenshin. DARKNESS. 899	Posted - 2016.04.11 11:16:19 - [952] - Quote Daemon Jax wrote: Everything about this is a bad idea. If you want these opportunities to help new players, then have it scale similar to injectors, except after 5mil sp it just stops altogether. And for killing an NPC rat? That's just terrible any way you look at it. Tie it to newbie opportunity system instead, or make opportunities some kind of group pve event (pvpers can go there for targets if the event is in low/null, or maybe you can choose sides when you get there, kinda like red vs blue) that randomly spawns X events somewhere within Y hours... but make it somewhat interesting with varied objectives. Not just kill 1 rat... that's not even a good placeholder for anywhere except the test server. It is the perfect "place holder" for future plans - You really don't think it will stop with just ONE "daily" do you? This is just a beginning - Expect more..........and more......and more, increasing in difficulty and reward, until dailies become a part of Eve life. Any pvp event would be biased, 70% of paying Eve customers don't pvp, offering rewards only to a minority (pvp'rs) would be bad for business and therefore never be a Daily. Unless CCP decide to create arenas, like so many games before them to accommodate the pvp whims of a few. Just imagine the outcry from miners if CCP offered X amount of SP for every one that got killed. As much fun as it could be, I don't think CCP would want that sort of blowback. Add to that the toxic way in which PVP is carried out in Eve, it could never be done in a balanced way. Honestly I think there would be very few in Eve who could do pvp dailies as most pvp is fleet or at best small gang and the amount of ways it could be gamed is endless. My opinions are mine. If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Ravcharas Infinite Point Violence of Action. 465	Posted - 2016.04.11 11:20:52 - [953] - Quote Terrorfrodo wrote: With EVE getting older and older and the distance between eager, hyper-active newbies and the average veteran player growing. I really don't see what this part has to do with the rest of your post. If you mean that the skill-gap is a problem, the system with diminishing returns and finite skill ceilings pretty much has you covered there.
Mayharm EVE University Ivy League 5	Posted - 2016.04.11 11:31:57 - [954] - Quote IN A PLAYER DRIVEN FUTURE [11:15] You are the CEO of "Industry Corp 27". The servers are back on-line and you login to see how you can expand your empire and catch up with the Henry Fords and Howard Hughes of New Eden. So first stop, the CEO/director version of the corp dailies interface. You can see in the Contracts section that most of the thorax hulls you need for next week's delivery to the e-uni have been completed via players doing the contract dailies, but you need more so you set up some additional ones for today. [11:25] Going back to the main screen you notice that the incursion section has become available, uh-oh... yup, there's an incursion spawned in your constellation. ***! The last time this happened none of your employees could get ANY mining done cause of those damn sansha rats. Well this* time you can do something about it. You open the incursion section and check he details, it costs 80M isk and 80 daily license points. Well worth it when the mining churns through 2.7B isk worth of asteroids in a normal week. And with 967 players in your corp, industrialists or not, surely some of them can figure out how to kill the mom? Well let's find out.... [11:26] Before you close the interface you notice some complaints in the corp chat about the price of veldspar being high. You check the market, sigh yes some group is trying to corner the veldspar market again. But wait! You have an idea... you open the market section of the dailies interface and create 5 dailies for your members to sell 100M veldspar at a reasonable price. Sure, this won't stop the market manipulation, they'll just buy the cheaper ore and resell it for more. BUT it does mean when they are finished the average price in the region wont actually rise too badly and prices will go back to normal faster. In the longer term that'll be worth way more than 0.5 billion veldsar and hopefully your members are willing to sacrifice for the cause. [11:30] Finally done with your CEO chores, you undock your hulk, it's going to be a beautiful day of blowing up rocks... maybe you'll find the corpse of corp-mate caught mining afk so you can complete your corps frozen corpse daily?

CCP Rise C C P C C P Alliance 5516	Posted - 2016.04.11 11:37:11 - [955] - Quote Okay, let's see if I can provide some context for our decision to add daily opportunities to eve and maybe answer some of your bigger questions. Why Dailies? So first letGÇÖs talk a little history. EVE had a daily logon incentive for most of its existence: the 24 hour skill queue limit. Back in Phoebe, we removed those limitations. Now, at the time, we were of two minds internally. We didn't like the experience around being punished for not logging in to update your queue, but also knew that some of those logins might be valuable and we shouldn't lightly let go of them. We leaned to the side of a better experience and removed the limitations, hoping that the logins we were generating were fairly empty, rarely leading to more actual activity in the universe. Well, it turns out we were wrong about that. Now, with before and after data we can see that making it into the client is a huge step towards real activity, even if the reason for logging in in the first place seems artificial. So this leads us to where we are now, attempting to find ways to create more logins that also don't feel like such a punishment as the skill queue limitations did. This may not turn out to be the perfect alternative but that's what we're looking for. Why Skillpoints? There's been a lot of feedback here that this kind of feature would be acceptable if the rewards were more monetary, either LP or ISK or something similar. There's a few reasons that doesn't really work and we feel pulled towards SP. I think the biggest one is that many people simply won't be motivated by LP or ISK, especially in the amounts we would be restricted to giving. SP simply has higher demand across more playstyles and player ages and that just makes it a more powerful incentive. Second big reason that we actually tried designs using item and ISK rewards and it quickly creates a lot of economic imbalances. Any time we are giving something away without much activity cost we are heavily sabotaging someone's gameplay. Whether it's because of devaluing LP, causing major inflation, or crashing item markets, it's all bad for you guys so we would rather avoid it. Why so lazy? As far as the feature and implementation being lazy, there's a few reasons here as well. First of all, as a few people pointed out for us, this is a first pass that we will use to get information on how to move forward. In general in dev, and in our team for sure, we are trying to move towards faster releases so that we can iterate with information rather than hold things in a long time trying to get them perfect before they go to TQ. There are definitely arguments for doing things the other way but this strategy has served us well and we think it will in this case too. The other big point here is that while we want there to be some activity associated with the daily reward, we don't want something as involved as running a site. At that point you're looking at a full play session and not everyone will have time for that. The idea here is that even if you're a busy parent or you work a lot on week days you won't have a problem hopping in for 5 minutes to get the daily reward if you want to. New players seeing a lot of talk about this feature in the context of new players and I can just say that this is not a new player targeted feature. We hope it's good for new players as well but for the feature to be successful it needs to be relevant to everyone. Wow CCP And finally the traditional MMO comparisons. While I found most of these comments to be the most entertaining, it's pretty absurd to think that any feature which can be found in a traditional MMO appearing in EVE means we are headed down the road to battlegrounds and dragon killing. If you look at Citadel feature list you should not have any concerns about our commitment to the EVE sandbox and the hardcore nature of our game. Hope some of this helps. We are taking your feedback seriously and if we don't make any changes before release we will absolutely be following up shortly after release with changes based on feedback and behavior. @ccp_rise

Pleasure Hub Node-514 Pleasure Hub Hotline 79	Posted - 2016.04.11 11:43:44 - [956] - Quote ^ Good stuff CCP Rise. *'One night hauler'* The tell all story of a pleasure bot in Jita 4-4
William Rokov Better go yolo Yolo Brothers 113	Posted - 2016.04.11 11:48:20 - [957] - Quote I like idea of daily quests overall because its working in most other mmo games. But eve is a lot slower game than others, so i'd like to see weekly quest instead of dayily. Huge questin is what kind of reward it should provide, skillpoints looks fine, but only while this reward SP for quest is less important, than standart learning. Mainly i want to talk about type of that regular quest, what kind of activity they should provoke. I like idea of special quest, that provoke people for any activity (especially pvp activity) in dangeroues zones - low-sec, null-sec and wormholes. Something like 1) Kill one npc in any low, null or wh system. 2) Visit region (random region every week for every player from low or null regions). 3) Activate agressive module on someone (can be used only once per character). What do you gyus think about it? No links, no scouts. True solo pvp pilot.
Oxide Ammar 251	Posted - 2016.04.11 11:48:29 - [958] - Quote Thx CCP, I'm looking forward for this daily opportunity as for the rest of salty veterans better luck next time launching crusade against upcoming features Lady Areola Fappington: -áSolo PVP isn't dead!-á You just need to make sure you have your booster, remote rep, cyno, and emergency Falcon alts logged in and ready before you do any solo PVPing.
Lan Wang Knights of the Posing Meat FETID 2644	Posted - 2016.04.11 11:53:18 - [959] - Quote Oxide Ammar wrote: Thx CCP, I'm looking forward for this daily opportunity as for the rest of salty veterans better luck next time launching crusade against upcoming features sorry for not jumping on the "we love you ccp" band wagon FETID now recruiting pvp pilots & corporations \| lowsec pvp & piracy - Join FETID Loyalist to Angel Cartel & Serpentis
Khan Wrenth Ore Oppression Prevention and Salvation 548	Posted - 2016.04.11 11:58:31 - [960] - Quote CCP Rise wrote: Okay, let's see if I can provide some context for our decision to add daily opportunities to eve and maybe answer some of your bigger questions. Why Dailies? So first lets talk a little history. EVE had a daily logon incentive for most of it's existence: the 24 hour skill queue limit. Back in Phoebe, we removed those limitations. Now, at the time, we were of two minds internally. We didn't like the experience around being punished for not logging in to update your queue, but also knew that some of those logins might be leading to meaningful gameplay and we shouldn't lightly let go of them. We leaned to the side of a better experience and removed the limitations, hoping that the logins we were generating were fairly empty, rarely leading to more actual activity in the universe. Well, it turns out we were wrong about that. Now, with before and after data we can see that making it into the client is a huge step towards real activity, even if the reason for logging in in the first place seems artificial. So this leads us to where we are now, attempting to find ways to create more logins that also don't feel like such a punishment as the skill queue limitations did. This may not turn out to be the perfect alternative but that's what we're looking for. Why Skillpoints? There's been a lot of feedback here that this kind of feature would be acceptable if the rewards were more monetary, either LP or ISK or something similar. There's a few reasons that doesn't really work and we feel pulled towards SP. I think the biggest one is that many people simply won't be motivated by LP or ISK, especially in the amounts we would be restricted to giving. SP simply has higher demand across more playstyles and player ages and that just makes it a more powerful incentive. Second big reason that we actually tried designs using item and ISK rewards and it quickly creates a lot of economic imbalances. Any time we are giving something away without much activity cost we are heavily sabotaging someone's gameplay. Whether it's because of devaluing LP, causing major inflation, or crashing item markets, it's all bad for you guys so we would rather avoid it. Why so lazy? Lots of feedback about the feature having such a minimalist implementation. First, let me clear up some confusion by saying that this feature has no relationship with the 'Tribute' system that was described last year at EVE Vegas. That feature has actually gone down a path more focused on goal setting and long term engagement than daily activity and so the daily part was broken off and given to our team separately. With that in mind, we are trying to find the right mix of activity and accessibility. We want you to be able to collect this reward during a lunch break or a 10 minute period where your kids are in timeout but also want to make sure there's some real gameplay associated with it. We think getting to a belt or gate for an NPC is about the right mix and that's why we've landed with this. That said, we've also deliberately tried to keep it simple so that we can deploy fast and adjust based on how it gets used. We are absolutely open to expanding the list of activities in the future and imagined that as one of the most likely first iterations. Small sidenote on activities: many of you mentioned PVP, remember that this is always problematic because the most effective way to PVP for rewards is just kill your own alt, which isn't very fun or interesting. New players Seeing a lot of talk about this feature in the context of new players and I can just say that this is not a new player targeted feature. We hope it's good for new players as well but for the feature to be successful it needs to be relevant to everyone. Wow CCP And finally the traditional MMO comparisons. While I found most of these comments to be the most entertaining, it's pretty absurd to think that any feature which can be found in a traditional MMO appearing in EVE means we are headed down the road to battlegrounds and dragon killing. If you look at Citadel feature list you should not have any concerns about our commitment to the EVE sandbox and the hardcore nature of our game. Hope some of this helps. We are taking your feedback seriously and if we don't make any changes before release we will absolutely be following up shortly after release with changes based on feedback and behavior. ...I didn't see the word "orthodoxy"... :( Let's discuss overhauling the way we get intel in EvE.
Inomares Tax Evasion Corporation 3 1	Posted - 2016.04.11 12:00:14 - [961] - Quote Anything I feel obliged to do on a daily basis whether I feel like doing it or not, I will end up hating. I quit WoW for this exact same reason. I didn't need the gold I got from logging in and updating my Garrison for 5 minutes/day, but the nagging feeling that I was missing out if I didn't was always there. In the end, it nagged me to the point where I quit the game over it. Don't start making me hate eve as well, please. The skill queue change is one of the best changes I've seen since I came back to the game.
Kieron VonDeux 149	Posted - 2016.04.11 12:01:46 - [962] - Quote CCP Rise wrote: Wow CCP It can be a slippery slope and you have to admit CCP is not always totally open in regard to really why some changes are being made. At least it can seem that way. Many changes to this game you can anticipate but many do come out of left field. Some times those changes that come out of left field really leave many players wondering why, and where this made lead us in the future. Many previous MMOs were totally destroyed by wild changes out of left field that players didn't really anticipate and game design was too stubborn to admit those mistakes before it was too late. I think many would wish that the more "left field" like changes were not announced two weeks before release and were given more time to get feedback from the player base. It really does seem that CCP is rushing things on some of these left field changes to shove them down the player base's throat before it is well thought out. Building a consensus in game design and running it by CSM does not mean the player base as a whole will readily accept such changes.
Black Pedro Yammerschooner 2364	Posted - 2016.04.11 12:02:43 - [963] - Quote CCP Rise wrote: Why so lazy? Lots of feedback about the feature having such a minimalist implementation. First, let me clear up some confusion by saying that this feature has no relationship with the 'Tribute' system that was described last year at EVE Vegas. That feature has actually gone down a path more focused on goal setting and long term engagement than daily activity and so the daily part was broken off and given to our team separately. With that in mind, we are trying to find the right mix of activity and accessibility. We want you to be able to collect this reward during a lunch break or a 10 minute period where your kids are in timeout but also want to make sure there's some real gameplay associated with it. We think getting to a belt or gate for an NPC is about the right mix and that's why we've landed with this. That said, we've also deliberately tried to keep it simple so that we can deploy fast and adjust based on how it gets used. We are absolutely open to expanding the list of activities in the future and imagined that as one of the most likely first iterations. Small sidenote on activities: many of you mentioned PVP, remember that this is always problematic because the most effective way to PVP for rewards is just kill your own alt, which isn't very fun or interesting. First, just to point out that while shooting your alt isn't very fun or interesting, neither is flying to a belt and shooting a single NPC at no risk. It would seem to me if you are setting the bar so low, that it isn't very much further down to shooting an alt from shooting a single NPC. Maybe I am in the minority, but my normal game play rarely has me shooting NPCs, even when I am undocked in space. I tend to either trade, gather resources, or shoot other players. This proposal rewards shooting NPCs so much more than any of my other activities I will have no choice but to alter my game play to take advantage. If this is implemented, my new game session will look like: Start Launcher --> (log-in alt and and fly to belt to shoot single NPC)x9 or x12 --> Now go do what I really want. With this incentive structure I will have no choice as every other option I have to make resources is so much worse than the 15M ISK for a few minutes work. Fine, I will do that, but I don't think that is the intention of this proposal. One change which would limit my ability to farm all my alts would be to only award the the SP bonus to characters actively training skills. At least then my grind before I can do what I really want would be only one-third as long. Why Do They Gank?
Rain6639 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3855	Posted - 2016.04.11 12:09:59 - [964] - Quote Thanks for the reply Rise, it was well-written. I'm happy about the news of your awareness of market crashes due to item giveaways. I hope there is a commitment to creating new items for the sake of giveaways, as someone who has 1,000 of a particular SKIN. It's been so long that I've accepted the possibility and would just post about it for the schadenfreude, but there's also the basic principle that you shouldn't be so careless with player item values. Is there a possibility for adjustments to the reward model, and what might they look like? SP distributed over several NPC kills or actions, higher or lower ceiling for daily SP bonus, etc?
l0rd carlos TURN LEFT 1277	Posted - 2016.04.11 12:11:22 - [965] - Quote I was really mad Now I'm confused. Confused over my own feelings. I don't know what to think about it any more. Youtube Channel about Micro and Small scale PvP with commentary: Fleet Commentary by l0rd carlos
Rain6639 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3855	Posted - 2016.04.11 12:11:55 - [966] - Quote Also, does that mean you're looking for ways to generate logins?
Rain6639 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3855	Posted - 2016.04.11 12:17:10 - [967] - Quote I suggest allowing us to select up to 24 hours of just-trained SP to be moved to unallocated. One of the biggest problems with releasing new modules and skills is the rush to catch up to where we'd like to be with the skill levels. This stop-and-go is forcing us to constantly be in a state of less-than-optimal skill training. For me, nearly all of my characters are fully trained spec V in all the ships I want. What I'd really like to do is start training to unallocated instead of picking new skills just to have my skill queue running. If I could train to unallocated, I'd be able to dump millions of SP into things like Capital Gunnery Specializations as soon as they arrive. I think you have a valid point that SP is a very universal incentive, and instead of giving more of it, perhaps if you allowed us more control over the allocation instead, more players would find it agreeable.
Rain6639 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3855	Posted - 2016.04.11 12:20:40 - [968] - Quote The alternative would be releasing the skill books well in advance so we can train them. The Capital Gunnery Specializations, for example, are rank 10 and there are six of them coming, for a total of 15 million SP. To make that transition fair we would need nearly a year of advanced notice and availability. If we can train to unallocated instead, that makes us futureproof for any new skills and we don't have to get caught with our pants down.
Rain6639 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3855	Posted - 2016.04.11 12:21:26 - [969] - Quote And by only allowing us to move the previous 24 hours to unallocated, you get your daily logins.
leath4xr Amok. Goonswarm Federation 0	Posted - 2016.04.11 12:28:23 - [970] - Quote I remember when SP was an indication of how long and often you played. I remember having to log in when a skill finished, and you needed to start another one. This messin` with my SP is gettin kinda dumb. CCPls
Mayharm EVE University Ivy League 5	Posted - 2016.04.11 12:35:17 - [971] - Quote CCP Rise wrote: Why Skillpoints? ...Second big reason that we actually tried designs using item and ISK rewards and it quickly creates a lot of economic imbalances. Any time we are giving something away without much activity cost we are heavily sabotaging someone's gameplay. Whether it's because of devaluing LP, causing major inflation, or crashing item markets, it's all bad for you guys so we would rather avoid it. I don't know if you saw it, but I was suggesting journal entries with content as the reward, wouldn't that avoid the problem you're describing? I'm with you on the reasoning behind daily logins, just not liking the implementation for the eve sandbox. Is there no way you can make these missions/challenges be created by the player corporations? I'd feel 10 times more motivated to do something my corp had setup, rather than some repetitive auto-generated chore selected by the game. And it would be a great way for corps to manipulate their members into combining their efforts towards a common goal. I know that might seem counter to your idea of a ten minute login, BUT if that's what a player wants out of these, then he could just find a corp that provides 10 minute dailies, or if they are happy to do something that takes 2 hours instead, they can find a corp that provides that instead. Or a corp could just provide selection of dailies with varying difficulty/time-consumption. I know player corps being in charge is a scary idea, especially if it rewards SP, but I think it's possible to put controls in place to limit those dangers enough for the benefits to out-weight them.
Caldari 5 D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F. S.A.S Affirmative. 431	Posted - 2016.04.11 12:41:17 - [972] - Quote Looks at the date on the OP, not an April Fools Joke? .... Are you serious? Seems that the harshness of Eve is slowly degrading, first Skill Point injectors and now this? ( I have a pet hate for Skill Point injectors because it effectively de-coupled Character Age from SP Range, that you could guess if a character was old enough to light a cyno or not, or if they've had the change to train T2 fittings/weaponry yet etc, at least with the Character Bazaar this was still intact) I'm sorry but if you are going to give some form of activity reward, make it CONCORD LP(because it's Transferable for the LP you want) or ISK. Or some form of Bonus rate of generation, like earn Double ISK/Sec Status/LP for the First hour of logging in per 22 hours.
Sir Constantin 54	Posted - 2016.04.11 12:43:31 - [973] - Quote Thanks Rise for the follow-up but we already kind of new why CCP wants to go on this path. In the race of dumbing down the game CCP once again removed a good old mechanic. With 24 hour skillque you could at least add a long skill to the que and not be forced to login every day. I started playing Eve because you didn't have to grind for SP. But times are changing and seems that we gonna fall behind and lose SP if we can't log in every day, which is a ** mechanic. Here is a idea, fk IWI and all 3'rd party casinos. make a casino in game and set the dailies to give casino credits. People love gambling but they also lose a lot so there will always be demand for credits. Can't be that hard to design a 3d window like the Project discovery one, use some casino scripts that you can find all over the web. If it's a success you can also build further on that, making it multiplayer and stuff..
Mostlyharmlesss GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 226	Posted - 2016.04.11 12:43:59 - [974] - Quote Scatim Helicon wrote: You could try making a game that your playerbase wants to log in for, rather than having to bribe them with SP. Hell, here's a completely crazy idea, you could make NPCs challenging and interesting to fight rather than something to be farmed en masse in your sleep. (you won't do either of these things) Not emptyquoting. Follow me on Twitter for the latest regarding GoonSwarm Federation and our recruitment drives!
TheInternet TweepsOnline TheInternet New Order Strategic Industrial CODE. 23	Posted - 2016.04.11 12:56:40 - [975] - Quote CCP Rise wrote: If you look at Citadel feature list you should not have any concerns about our commitment to the EVE sandbox and the hardcore nature of our game. Right, because magically teleporting everyone's stuff to the nearest lowsec station every time a citadel dies is SUPER HARDCORE, CCP Rise. Who could possibly have doubts?
l0rd carlos TURN LEFT 1278	Posted - 2016.04.11 12:58:45 - [976] - Quote Caldari 5 wrote: Seems that the harshness of Eve is slowly degrading, first Skill Point injectors and now this? . How does Injectors and Dailys increase the degrading of eves harshness? Youtube Channel about Micro and Small scale PvP with commentary: Fleet Commentary by l0rd carlos
GlenCoco GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 0	Posted - 2016.04.11 13:05:31 - [977] - Quote So, like a lot of people I have a lot of different characters. Not all of those go pew pew regardless of whether that is pewing rats or other people. The kind of message that this sends is the only player loyalty that's worth rewarding, is players or characters that shoot things. This once again shows CCP's trap of activities they consider valuable and fear of repeating Forex and getting outsmarted by the players.
TinkerHell Nocturnal Romance Cynosural Field Theory. 216	Posted - 2016.04.11 13:07:42 - [978] - Quote Just no. I do not want to login each of my characters in everyday to kill a rat.
leath4xr Amok. Goonswarm Federation 0	Posted - 2016.04.11 13:10:35 - [979] - Quote GlenCoco wrote: This once again shows CCP's trap of activities they consider valuable and fear of repeating Forex and getting outsmarted by the players. There is ~20K+ people online everyday. There are collectively more hours spent trying to break the game than CCP could ever commit. CCP will get outsmarted. It's inevitable. CCP is in it for the money, not for any of it's players. They don't care so long as that little income graph trickles upwards at the end of the day.
Vincent Athena V.I.C.E. 3818	Posted - 2016.04.11 13:14:54 - [980] - Quote Khan Wrenth wrote: CCP Rise wrote: stuff ...I didn't see the word "orthodoxy"... :( Jokes aside, can we at least get a change so that the skillpoints are more restricted? Like, maybe just a little thing like "only on active training queues", or "any of the three characters on that account can complete it"? This. At least make it once per account. If its all three, then instead of encouraging people to log in, you are encouraging them to log off, so they can log in the other pilots. Know a Frozen fan? Check this out Frozen fanfiction
Kovl Jita Flipping Inc. 12	Posted - 2016.04.11 13:18:32 - [981] - Quote CCP Rise wrote: Hope some of this helps. We are taking your feedback seriously and if we don't make any changes before release we will absolutely be following up shortly after release with changes based on feedback and behavior. No you're not. You will be releasing this primitive daily cancer to boost your PCU regardless of what anyone will post in this thread. This ... daily nonsense ... IS NOT PROMOTING ACTIVITY. How hilariously naive or hypocritical can you be ? The only thing it does - using SP as an obvious (and only possible) leverage - is making people do the same, boring, repetitive. mundane task day by day, month by month, year by year. As quickly as possible, solo, from Jita to nearest belt/anomaly to spank a mob, log off and repeat this nonsense on another character. A task they will quickly learn to absolutely hate (and game in the process) - yet they will keep doing this because the feel of loosing SP is too big for most people to handle (and - especially - occasional new players coming from themepark geargrinders treating dailes like a religion). Don't do this ****.
FistyMcBumBardier TURN LEFT 113	Posted - 2016.04.11 13:20:37 - [982] - Quote If you are going to do this. Please at least limit it to once per account per day. As a min-maxer it would get REALLY irritating in the long run to feel like I was missing out for not logging in all 9 of my characters to get that little SP fix.
Ranafal Rezeda Supplements Rezeda Regnum 47	Posted - 2016.04.11 13:23:59 - [983] - Quote CCP Rise wrote: Okay, let's see if I can provide some context for our decision to add daily opportunities to eve and maybe answer some of your bigger questions. Hm, now, after this explanation, the proposed idea looks very good to me, as i see clear reasoning and expected effects. Though i already have a lot of SP on all my twinks, and some of them are jita-traders, so actually this will "hurt" me (i'll either lose those portions of daily-sp, or have to spend time on finding&killing a pair of rats by my jita alts) - i absolutely welcome this idea with SP-for-dailies Also you are completely right about LP/isk reward - i'd completely ignore it in case of LP/isk rewards unless there was something about 100 millions of ISK reward for any single npc frig kill Droplet of SP is a brilliant choice for reward, which will represent really good (but at the same time not critical/balance breaking) motivation for literally any character. Right on!
Anthar Thebess 1495	Posted - 2016.04.11 13:32:02 - [984] - Quote If you want to persuade players to undock and create content. Make them venture into places other than higsec. 10.000 SP for killing a rat ? What about 5.000 sp more for venturing into lowsec, nullsec or WH space? (if you are already there you need to change system to get it) Stop discrimination, help in a fight against terrorists Show your support to The Cause!
Aaron Honk Distributed Denial of Service 88	Posted - 2016.04.11 13:32:04 - [985] - Quote Well it looks like it's a big **** you to people who have many characters
Ranafal Rezeda Supplements Rezeda Regnum 47	Posted - 2016.04.11 13:33:49 - [986] - Quote Aaron Honk wrote: Well it looks like it's a big **** you to people who have many characters While command links bonuses are a big ... to people who have single character. So let's remove bonuses, yeah
Lan Wang Knights of the Posing Meat FETID 2647	Posted - 2016.04.11 13:34:12 - [987] - Quote Anthar Thebess wrote: If you want to persuade players to undock and create content. Make them venture into places other than higsec. 10.000 SP for killing a rat ? What about 5.000 sp more for venturing into lowsec, nullsec or WH space? (if you are already there you need to change system to get it) it sounds like a great content idea but damn it sounds even more tedious than ccp's idea FETID now recruiting pvp pilots & corporations \| lowsec pvp & piracy - Join FETID Loyalist to Angel Cartel & Serpentis
leath4xr Amok. Goonswarm Federation 0	Posted - 2016.04.11 13:39:24 - [988] - Quote Lan Wang wrote: Anthar Thebess wrote: If you want to persuade players to undock and create content. Make them venture into places other than higsec. 10.000 SP for killing a rat ? What about 5.000 sp more for venturing into lowsec, nullsec or WH space? (if you are already there you need to change system to get it) because that requires effort and people dont seem to like effort these days How so? Have you ever left the system that you started in? If so you should understand the basics of traveling in eve.
Kym Mena World Burning 3	Posted - 2016.04.11 13:42:10 - [989] - Quote Rise, From reading your update it seems like this was a heads up about something that is happening, regardless what the actual players think or want, or what it will do to the game that we signed up for. In the future, could you note this in your OPs so that we know our feedback is not going to have any effect other than your personal amusement at our plight? Thank you (Our feedback was not the only thing wasted, your update has only increased my resolve to take no part in this carrot-stick gimmick of yours. Jolly good show, mate)
CowQueen MMXII 28	Posted - 2016.04.11 13:52:52 - [990] - Quote I think your motivation is reasonable and, although many here might not believe that dailies will have the desired effect in the mid to long term, nobody will blame you for trying to implement some additional incentive for logging in. CCP Rise wrote: Why Skillpoints? ... You are right, for (a reasonable amount of) Isk or LP I wouldn't do a thing. AUR might be something. On the other side, you are devaluating the SP aspect of my subscription time - again. CCP Rise wrote: Why so lazy? Lots of feedback about the feature having such a minimalist implementation. First, let me clear up some confusion by saying that this feature has no relationship with the 'Tribute' system that was described last year at EVE Vegas. That feature has actually gone down a path more focused on goal setting and long term engagement than daily activity and so the daily part was broken off and given to our team separately. Minimalist is not the right approach. If you really need/want/must have such a feature, do it right. For example: Create a complex achievement system over many aspects of the game, maybe based on the opportunities. Make some of these achievement one-time-only, some long term grindy and some are resetting on a regular basis. Give them different rewards (SP if you must, AUR is nice, Isk and LP for the low level, one time ones). This way, you could reward someone for 5000h of mining, succesful mission number 10000 or just for undocking on 7 of 7 days in the last week (and reset this achievement every Sunday). CCP Rise wrote: With that in mind, we are trying to find the right mix of activity and accessibility. We want you to be able to collect this reward during a lunch break or a 10 minute period where your kids are in timeout but also want to make sure there's some real gameplay associated with it. We think getting to a belt or gate for an NPC is about the right mix and that's why we've landed with this. Out of 12 characters I have 8 in wormhole space - nothing is done within 10 minutes in wh space... "Luckily", I just moved to a C2 where at least my combat chars will be able to the suggested daily rather quickly. If was still in a C5, as I was for the most time for the last 4 years, this would have presented quite an effort on a daily basis - imagine 80 characters needing easy kills each and every day without having any "easy NPCs" around. CCP Rise wrote: Wow CCP And finally the traditional MMO comparisons. While I found most of these comments to be the most entertaining, it's pretty absurd to think that any feature which can be found in a traditional MMO appearing in EVE means we are headed down the road to battlegrounds and dragon killing. Personally, I don't care for those other MMOs, EVE is the first one I actually started playing and will also be the last one - at least when it comes to roleplaying MMOs in the 'classical' sense. There are reasons I play EVE and not anything else. One of those reasons is that (character-) progression is (mostly) independent from what I do, when I do things and how I do things. And one last remark: Where does this 22h-thing come from? Why not simple reset the counter during downtime? Even if that means that people would only log in every other day directly before and after DT. Moo! Uddersucker, moo!
Tyrant Scorn 205	Posted - 2016.04.11 13:55:41 - [991] - Quote OMG I am so angry arg arg... Burn in hell CCP... Growl grrrr... Boehoe !! The Tyrant King YouTube \| Twitter \| Twitch
MidnightWyvern Night Theifs 200	Posted - 2016.04.11 13:59:15 - [992] - Quote 50 pages, wow. I mean, as far as I'm concerned I agree with the post above me talking about varying it up a little more than just "shoot one rat for 10,000 SP". One of the elements Dust 514 put in a while ago was a set of "Daily Missions" where you get a rotating set of objectives to do on the side of just playing matches that would get you varying bonuses. Some of those side objectives sucked, but in most cases it helped to vary up what you were doing in each match a little. Right now the idea seems a little incomplete, to me. I think you guys should go back to the drawing board and look into a more detailed system that provides more varied incentives and involves more than just one activity. Rattati Senpai noticed us! See you in the next FPS! Alts: Saray Wyvern, Mobius Wyvern (Dust 514)
Sienna Vanjarc Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde 16	Posted - 2016.04.11 13:59:41 - [993] - Quote I get those points, i don't like it this nonetheless. If its just about making us loging in more often at all, it would be enough to reward the first character per account and not every character. And make it just about logging in, not killing a rat, what is just a tedious hassle for the same effect, especially if you have to go through all characters on every account, to get your max. "log-in-bonus". This would probably even make more people logging in, because the tedious and repetitive part is much smaller. I wouldn't like it, but it wouldn't be that annoying. I get that we probably won't dissuade you from this for the most part, but please consider to try it with a less radical system first, maybe this even has a better effect for your goals.
Thea Yulivee Space Pioneers Odin's Call 11	Posted - 2016.04.11 14:01:21 - [994] - Quote Well...I have said this on reddit and I will repeat it here. I do not think that this is the right way to go. If you want to give out skillpoints (and i can understand where you are coming from on this one, although i don't necessarily agree), a possible increase of more than 15% (or as much as implants give people), will not be seens as a "nice bonus" but as a mandatory activity. We have the discussion about implants boiling up every now and then, because people feel that they are necessary, and this will carry over to those dailies as well. What does that mean? Well...apparently we will not be telling our newbros to "train their learning skills first" but to "not forget to kill their daily rat" [Does this sound ok to anyone? really?] - which is an activity that will only help with logins, not with participation in the game, by the way. If you stick to skillpoints, lower the reward significantly! Staying on-par with +5 implants, will not lead to engaging gameplay and motivation, but to people feeling forced to do this every day and those people will feel as if they missed out big time, if they can't log in for some days. One other point i'd like to bring up..and this has been brought up before, but ignored in your post, Rise...What about people that don't have easy acess to rats? Wormholers are a thing, you know? We can't just kill a gate-rat or warp to a belt...in a highclass wormhole, which is activity farmed, that means that my members might start to worry most about getting their daily SP bonus than anything else. Which will in turn mean, that the first thing everyone does will be "finding an empire exit" (or a low-class WH, in case sleepers count...couldn't find a definitiv answer for this one) in order to get their bonus. Honestly....having to scan for an exit, that needs to be kept open for members that are coming online later, in order to go to empire space, to find a rat in order to kill for the SP bonus, that is large enough to not be seens as a nice bonus, sounds like really damn bad game design. Whilst I understand your motivation..to reward daily activity and understand why you chose SPs as a reward - the current proposed system will turn into a pain in the a** really quick and feel forced for so many players, that i can not see anything good come from this.
Hector Riley Incorruptibles 2	Posted - 2016.04.11 14:10:10 - [995] - Quote One of the arguments against ISK/LP being awarded from these daily objectives is how it is will negatively impact the economy. Which is a perfectly valid concern. Why not have the objectives award ISK/LP if it involves PvP? This way we are ensuring asset loss is involved, thus preventing/reducing inflation.
leath4xr Amok. Goonswarm Federation 0	Posted - 2016.04.11 14:20:43 - [996] - Quote Hector Riley wrote: One of the arguments against ISK/LP being awarded from these daily objectives is how it is will negatively impact the economy. Which is a perfectly valid concern. Why not have the objectives award ISK/LP if it involves PvP? This way we are ensuring asset loss is involved, thus preventing/reducing inflation. I think this is a valid concern/Idea. I think it might be viable to work it sorta like the bounty system where the reward could be based on loss/gain. You wouldn't want to be handing out 100m for newbie frigate kills. Then just limit it per day.
Hector Riley Incorruptibles 2	Posted - 2016.04.11 14:24:51 - [997] - Quote leath4xr wrote: I think this is a valid concern/Idea. I think it might be viable to work it sorta like the bounty system where the reward could be based on loss/gain. You wouldn't want to be handing out 100m for newbie frigate kills. Then just limit it per day. Yes! I completely agree with that and I would like to propose a requirement for these PvP tasks: rookie ship and shuttle kills cannot be counted. Mitigating potential abuse adds value to the whole idea of daily objectives.
Jenn aSide Smokin Aces. 13886	Posted - 2016.04.11 14:26:25 - [998] - Quote CCP Rise wrote: Why Dailies? So first lets talk a little history. EVE had a daily logon incentive for most of it's existence: the 24 hour skill queue limit. Back in Phoebe, we removed those limitations. Now, at the time, we were of two minds internally. We didn't like the experience around being punished for not logging in to update your queue, but also knew that some of those logins might be leading to meaningful gameplay and we shouldn't lightly let go of them. We leaned to the side of a better experience and removed the limitations, hoping that the logins we were generating were fairly empty, rarely leading to more actual activity in the universe. Well, it turns out we were wrong about that. Now, with before and after data we can see that making it into the client is a huge step towards real activity, even if the reason for logging in in the first place seems artificial. So this leads us to where we are now, attempting to find ways to create more logins that also don't feel like such a punishment as the skill queue limitations did. This may not turn out to be the perfect alternative but that's what we're looking for. This is the most important thing said here. What CCP had with the old skill que was not that unlike what other businesses do with 'loss leaders'. The actual activity (logging in to change a skill, logging in to kill a rat) isn't that valuable or satisfying in terms of content generation, but it very often leads to other things that are. I think most of us have done it, logged in for a very simple purpose and ended up playing longer than we planned on (living in null I can't count how many times i got a jabber ping while I was just on to change a skill or move a cyno toon, my 1st Titan kill experience came about from this scenario). That's why I don't have a problem with this idea, even if it goes against my reputation an an arch-purist when it comes to EVE (a reputation I don't jsut deserve, one that I relish ). People's concerns are valid, but if the (IMO) much more un-EVE-like inclusion of skill trading didn't hurt us too much (so far....), these dallies won't either.
Masumi Ieyasu Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 0	Posted - 2016.04.11 14:26:42 - [999] - Quote I absolutely hate the premise of daily rewards, and find them depressively endemic in modern games. I should play a game on any particular day because IGÇÖm looking forward to the content it provides, not because it utilises manipulative psychology to encourage me to come back on a daily basis. I thought the removal of the 24hr skill queue was therefore a fantastic change, and donGÇÖt believe that a potential increase in activity from daily rewards is worth treating customers in this manner. Reading CCP RiseGÇÖs attempts to answer questions and reassure naysayers has actually made my opposition stronger, as I fundamentally disagree with CCPGÇÖs premise for this change. The past few weeks have seen large increases in player activity as war has broken out across large portions of New Eden. There are numerous reasons for conflict breaking out now, but I believe one of these is that tweaks CCP made to many game mechanics are bearing fruit. Hopefully the Citadel expansion should add further nuances to EVEGÇÖs gameplay, and add to the excitement of the playerbase. I want to see EVE prosper and grow because of the content it provides, and hope CCP doesnGÇÖt feel it has to resort to psychological tricks to keep players coming back. I also think daily rewards mesh poorly with a sandbox game such as EVE, as perhaps the greatest strength of a sandbox is the emergent gameplay it produces, and no daily rewards system can adequately cover this. You can provide rewards for killing rats etc., but will there be rewards for daily market pvp, scouting for fleets, mapping chains, or for being a corp diplomat, dictator, or thief. I suspect I wonGÇÖt enjoy any form of daily rewards that is introduced, but with the current suggested implementation there are also going to be rather a lot of characters undocking to kill a single belt or anomaly NPC. People shouldnGÇÖt have an incentive to choose killing a random NPC over the far more interesting content that EVE already provides. I do think that the SP system could do with some tweaks, although apparently that isnGÇÖt CCPGÇÖs intention here. I also would be slightly less opposed to an alternative reward to SP, but CCP Rise has stated that one of the reasons SP was chosen was exactly the same reason as why I would avoid it; because it is a powerful motivator.
Tomika Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 22	Posted - 2016.04.11 14:27:48 - [1000] - Quote TinkerHell wrote: Just no. I do not want to login each of my characters in everyday to kill a rat. Don't then.
Stellar Compass Secret Passage 5	Posted - 2016.04.11 14:28:45 - [1001] - Quote CCP Rise wrote: Okay, let's see if I can provide some context for our decision to add daily opportunities to eve and maybe answer some of your bigger questions. Why Dailies? So first lets talk a little history. EVE had a daily logon incentive for most of it's existence: the 24 hour skill queue limit. Back in Phoebe, we removed those limitations. Now, at the time, we were of two minds internally. We didn't like the experience around being punished for not logging in to update your queue, but also knew that some of those logins might be leading to meaningful gameplay and we shouldn't lightly let go of them. We leaned to the side of a better experience and removed the limitations, hoping that the logins we were generating were fairly empty, rarely leading to more actual activity in the universe. Well, it turns out we were wrong about that. Now, with before and after data we can see that making it into the client is a huge step towards real activity, even if the reason for logging in in the first place seems artificial. So this leads us to where we are now, attempting to find ways to create more logins that also don't feel like such a punishment as the skill queue limitations did. This may not turn out to be the perfect alternative but that's what we're looking for. Why Skillpoints? There's been a lot of feedback here that this kind of feature would be acceptable if the rewards were more monetary, either LP or ISK or something similar. There's a few reasons that doesn't really work and we feel pulled towards SP. I think the biggest one is that many people simply won't be motivated by LP or ISK, especially in the amounts we would be restricted to giving. SP simply has higher demand across more playstyles and player ages and that just makes it a more powerful incentive. Second big reason that we actually tried designs using item and ISK rewards and it quickly creates a lot of economic imbalances. Any time we are giving something away without much activity cost we are heavily sabotaging someone's gameplay. Whether it's because of devaluing LP, causing major inflation, or crashing item markets, it's all bad for you guys so we would rather avoid it. Why so lazy? Lots of feedback about the feature having such a minimalist implementation. First, let me clear up some confusion by saying that this feature has no relationship with the 'Tribute' system that was described last year at EVE Vegas. That feature has actually gone down a path more focused on goal setting and long term engagement than daily activity and so the daily part was broken off and given to our team separately. With that in mind, we are trying to find the right mix of activity and accessibility. We want you to be able to collect this reward during a lunch break or a 10 minute period where your kids are in timeout but also want to make sure there's some real gameplay associated with it. We think getting to a belt or gate for an NPC is about the right mix and that's why we've landed with this. That said, we've also deliberately tried to keep it simple so that we can deploy fast and adjust based on how it gets used. We are absolutely open to expanding the list of activities in the future and imagined that as one of the most likely first iterations. Small sidenote on activities: many of you mentioned PVP, remember that this is always problematic because the most effective way to PVP for rewards is just kill your own alt, which isn't very fun or interesting. New players Seeing a lot of talk about this feature in the context of new players and I can just say that this is not a new player targeted feature. We hope it's good for new players as well but for the feature to be successful it needs to be relevant to everyone. Wow CCP And finally the traditional MMO comparisons. While I found most of these comments to be the most entertaining, it's pretty absurd to think that any feature which can be found in a traditional MMO appearing in EVE means we are headed down the road to battlegrounds and dragon killing. If you look at Citadel feature list you should not have any concerns about our commitment to the EVE sandbox and the hardcore nature of our game. Hope some of this helps. We are taking your feedback seriously and if we don't make any changes before release we will absolutely be following up shortly after release with changes based on feedback and behavior. I like the idea where one can log on and do something for ten minutes, that can lead to other activities if time later allows, even if it is only going to lead sometimes to a quick chat in corp, that may lead to activity later. Suggestions for such activity, killing a single rat, activating a mining or gas laser for a full cycle, Jumping a wormhole or scanning a signature, Salvaging a wreck. All these would have at least one opportunity to be used in all areas of space from HS to wormholes and all in between. I believe the choice of skillpoints is reasonable, the number I hope might be raised a little, after release, take baby steps until people realise it is actually a good thing. Good luck, I believe your core idea is sound and valuable.
Kovl Jita Flipping Inc. 12	Posted - 2016.04.11 14:31:02 - [1002] - Quote CCP Rise wrote: Wow CCP And finally the traditional MMO comparisons. While I found most of these comments to be the most entertaining, it's pretty absurd to think that any feature which can be found in a traditional MMO appearing in EVE means we are headed down the road to battlegrounds and dragon killing. If you look at Citadel feature list you should not have any concerns about our commitment to the EVE sandbox and the hardcore nature of our game. Which part of adding mindless daily chore repeated #characters times do you find entertaining or healthy for this (or any other) game ? You're begining go down tihs road. Are you really that blindfolded to not see how damaging this stuff is ? For now it's 1 mob. Soon it will be 1 mob here, 10 mobs there, scan a signature, daytrip into wormhole, update 50 market orders, produce 100 pcs of ammo, start a research job, craft 5 rifters, gather 10 plants (erm I'm sorry, gather 10 pieces of Veldspar and s/mob/rat/g). For everyone's favorite chunk of XP. Um I'm sorry, chunk of SP. The sky is the limit how damaging all this crap can be.
Lavayar Russian SOBR Dream Fleet 256	Posted - 2016.04.11 14:33:20 - [1003] - Quote CCP Rise wrote: Now, with before and after data we can see that making it into the client is a huge step towards real activity, even if the reason for logging in in the first place seems artificial. So this leads us to where we are now, attempting to find ways to create more logins that also don't feel like such a punishment as the skill queue limitations did. This may not turn out to be the perfect alternative but that's what we're looking for. So, why you didn't consider adding 10k SP bonus just for logging in? If making it into the client is a huge step towards real activity. Then killing rat for 10k SP has nothing common with real activity!
Seven Koskanaiken FinFleet Northern Coalition. 1722	Posted - 2016.04.11 14:39:09 - [1004] - Quote CCP Rise wrote: Back in Phoebe, we removed those limitations. Now, at the time, we were of two minds internally. We didn't like the experience around being punished for not logging in to update your queue, but also knew that some of those logins might be leading to meaningful gameplay and we shouldn't lightly let go of them. We leaned to the side of a better experience and removed the limitations, hoping that the logins we were generating were fairly empty, rarely leading to more actual activity in the universe. Well, it turns out we were wrong about that. Quote: Back in Phoebe, we removed those limitations. Quote: Phoebe What else happened in Phoebe that caused people to stop logging in? I swear there was something.
Cat Evergreen EVE University Ivy League 8	Posted - 2016.04.11 14:42:41 - [1005] - Quote After a few days of sleep, talking with other people and especially after reading CCP Rise's post in this thread, my negative attitude towards Dailies (see post here) has cooled down and I think I can now accept what CCP would have forced on me anyways. I now see the reasoning behind this feature as it will (hopefully) provide a better Eve for all of us by logging in more people. I still stand to my critic from my previous post (see link above) about it a) being too powerfull and b) too simple. Resolving b) is easy and already anounced that you will think about it: More different activites to claim the bonus SP. Please bring us more different daily activities to choose from as soon as possible. But let the players choose freely. (I hated the daily activity system in GuildWars2, where they would give you a small random selection of activities each day, so you had to do something different, but often I ended up doing stuff I didn't like. One reason I'm in Eve now.) Solutions for a) have been provided in my previous post: Make the amount (a bit) smaller and/or limit it to characters with active training (my personal favourite). In the end I will ignore this feature, take the bonus whenever I happen to get if from what I wanted to do anyways and cry a little inside me whenever I log on for something that doesn't provide this bonus (like doing paperwork for my corporation).
Molly Shears Call of the Wild The Minions. 11	Posted - 2016.04.11 14:44:34 - [1006] - Quote Why you need to give SP ? Why not f.e. some new bpc for upgrade injector to loose less skill points per older characters ? or some kind of boosters, new "quafe" different for each month? CCP Rise wrote: Hi [...] kill an NPC ship every 22 hours. [...] Why 22h ? why not once between downtime ? and i don't change my mind ... I'm Against Daily I'm Against Daily Opportunities
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 2733	Posted - 2016.04.11 14:49:11 - [1007] - Quote Kovl wrote: CCP Rise wrote: Wow CCP And finally the traditional MMO comparisons. While I found most of these comments to be the most entertaining, it's pretty absurd to think that any feature which can be found in a traditional MMO appearing in EVE means we are headed down the road to battlegrounds and dragon killing. If you look at Citadel feature list you should not have any concerns about our commitment to the EVE sandbox and the hardcore nature of our game. Which part of adding a mindless daily chore repeated #characters times do you find entertaining or healthy for this (or any other) game ? You're begining go down tihs road. Are you really that blindfolded to not see how damaging this stuff is ? For now it's 1 mob. Soon it will be 1 mob here, 10 mobs there, scan a signature, daytrip into wormhole, update 50 market orders, produce 100 pcs of ammo, start a research job, craft 5 rifters, gather 10 plants (erm I'm sorry, gather 10 pieces of Veldspar and s/mob/rat/g). For everyone's favorite chunk of XP. Um I'm sorry, chunk of SP. The sky is the limit how damaging all this crap can be. You could always not do them if it damage your game experience that much. Your account won't get locked because you didn't kill that one rat...
Christmas Cheer Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire 0	Posted - 2016.04.11 14:50:59 - [1008] - Quote Dislike.
Tikktokk Tokkzikk Wilderness Unsubbed 314	Posted - 2016.04.11 14:53:32 - [1009] - Quote I understand your goal and I agree with it. If players log in, they're much more likely to say hello in corp chat and join a random fleet, which is a win for everyone. However, unlike updating the skill queues on all my primary characters, killing a rat with every character I own will turn into a daily soul crushing activty. You don't want your players to dread logging in each day. This will go one of two ways: either skill injectors will crash in price, and I'll completely ignore the dailies as it'll not be worth my time, OR skill injectors stay at the current value I'll spend half an hour logging in 12 characters, most not even combat capable, to kill a rat and hate every second of it each day because it's 36b/year (100-200m/h) risk-free income. Instead, I suggest every character with an active skill queue is awarded 10,000 SP for saying something in a chat channel. This has several advantages: First of all and most importantly, every character no matter their playstyle are are able to do it without going through a lot of trouble (killing an NPC with my hauler with no combat skills is not fun). Secondly, waving in corp / alliance / local chat is MUCH more likely to lead to more social interaction and turn the "log in for dailies" into a "join fleet and undock" than killing a random NPC. Thirdly, players won't have to log in all their accounts three times to cycle through a bunch of characters they don't care about.
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 2733	Posted - 2016.04.11 14:54:17 - [1010] - Quote Black Pedro wrote: First, just to point out that while shooting your alt isn't very fun or interesting, neither is flying to a belt and shooting a single NPC at no risk. It would seem to me if you are setting the bar so low, that it isn't very much further down to shooting an alt from shooting a single NPC. People are upset because the road to max SP/year will include killing a rat and to change that, you propose that the best strategy be to have at least 2 account so you always have an alt available to kill?
Terranid Meester Tactical Assault and Recon Unit 343	Posted - 2016.04.11 14:57:21 - [1011] - Quote CCP Rise wrote: Stuff that doesn't address my concerns. Now tell me CCP Rise why did this quote from Team Size Matters - 'Player driven economies are key to EVE design and we want you to decide the value of traded skillpoints while we make sure there is one single mechanism that brings new skillpoints in to the system GÇô training.', appear? Either they are lying or you are lying and are therefore not to be trusted. The link for that particular blog is here - https://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/skill-trading-in-new-eden/. Its still a bad idea.
Viserys Anstian Wayward Chickens 17	Posted - 2016.04.11 15:05:06 - [1012] - Quote No, just please no. I've left games because of dailies. I like Eve a lot, mostly because I can not play for a week, and feel I didn't lose much. My guy is still training, and sure I'm not making isk, but whatever, my eve life is strange. Then, for my more pacifist play style (aka, Null/worm explorer/scavenger), I rarely carry weapons and even when I'm do, I'm so far into null sec that I'm usually not about to stick my neck out too much for trying to kill an NPC. If I'm in my Covops, forget it. No room for weapons even. So now, when I'm not playing, I'm once again losing ground on skill training. Even if they expanded it to things like hacking, I'm still against it. Sometimes I'll just wander for quite a few log in sessions and not touch a single can. Sometimes I won't even launch probes as I just wander around aimlessly. I have to ask why CCP is even considering this. Do you think it will actually increase player base? I can't imagine it would in any way. I was trying to think of the economics for CCP, and I still can't imagine how it would help. Daily rewards are usually for games that are free to play, as a way to get eye balls in front of ads (which eve doesn't have) or to try to entice to purchase in game currencies. Sure, you can buy PLEX and sell for in game currency, but I don't see how a daily will increase the odds of that happening. If anything else, it would decrease it as people will be earning a slight increase in ISK from bounties on NPCs, and getting SPs to boost. the SP boost is 60% of what the injectors can bring in (at max potential), which cost ISK to buy, and how many people are buying & selling plex to get the extractors? Now they've provided an almost equivalent method for essentially free. Sure, you can combine the two and get even more, but still...I don't see the benefit to CCP. So I have to ask...why? What would be the point? Maybe next you should give SPs for visiting certain rare places associated with Lore? Maybe after that, for PVP kills? Then...for making a trade? Why not just let me buy more SPs directly via the store, instead of extractors?
Daemun Khanid Apollo Defence Industries Team Amarrica 527	Posted - 2016.04.11 15:06:40 - [1013] - Quote More SP means I can do more things without skill requirement limitations. Being able to fly more things means I spend more isk to buy more things to then go out and in turn do more things. More SP fuels the economy and puts more ships in space to shoot at. That said, just undocking a blapping a rat doesn't seem like a meaningful level of engagement but w/e. Daemun of Khanid
Calima Arzi Risk Breakers Snuffed Out 16	Posted - 2016.04.11 15:09:15 - [1014] - Quote I don't want to have to log in my industrial alt in every day and somehow use it to shoot rats. I'm even less keen on cycling through all my alts - even those not training - to perform a repetitive activity on each of them. The competition - many other players - will be doing so, and so must I: but I will bitterly resent doing so. My time is precious and this is not how I want to spend it. If the reward were anything but skillpoints I would happily ignore this: as it is, I have to do it, and will hate doing so.
Sexy Cakes Have A Seat 1081	Posted - 2016.04.11 15:09:25 - [1015] - Quote So now I have to log on all my alts to do dumba$$ dailies? What about my titan alt that doesn't have access to an XL citadel b/c I'm not in a huge nullsec power bloc? Not today spaghetti.
Kovl Jita Flipping Inc. 12	Posted - 2016.04.11 15:09:41 - [1016] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: You could always not do them if it damage your game experience that much. Your account won't get locked because you didn't kill that one rat... IDC about dailies, I've experience enough of this primitive pseudogamedesign **** in other games. And I don't need more SP. And the whole issue here is not about SP. But you (and CCP Rise) remain completely oblivious to what dailies can do with a game. And you have it explained on past 50 pages repeatedly. Guess ignorance is a bliss.
Amarisen Gream Divine Demise Apocalypse Now. 238	Posted - 2016.04.11 15:10:28 - [1017] - Quote I would say, please pardon my language or whatever but... nah. @ CCP, This is where i give you two middle fingers or pull out my man parts and **** on your shoes. Now, don't get me wrong, I love the fact that you are trying to figure out ways to get people to log on, Thats cool jelly beans. But, the how is what is ducked up and wrong. Lets take this approach. From my POV, PVP is in a good state, lots of people logging on to fight in the war up north. PVE is in the same state it was before i started playing EVE like 3 years ago. -- And here you are, lets give players 10k SP for logging on and killing A rat. -- All for the goal and purpose of getting people to log on. HOW ABOUT YOU GIVE US SOME UPDATED CONTENT INSTEAD, SO WE WANNA LOG ON AND RUN THE NEW SITES???? You want to get players online - we need newer and updated content. Missions, Combat Anomalies and Sigs. --- And your reply is, we are working on a system to make it easier to update that content. --- --- And I say, blah blah blah ducking blah. I've seen that reply for like two years. The way I would update the PVE content - (this takes from many of the former post, plus adds new stuff related to this forum topic) 1: NPC Missions need to be updated to a "cosmic anomaly/sig" like window. Where you can explore space and see where there are missions for you without needed to dock up. Thus keeping players in space more as they can run more missions for multiple NPC groups as the missions are provided in a window that doesn't require you to dock. 2: Combat sites need to be updated. The smaller sites need to be about what they are, with the bigger sites, expanding over the full grid. The same with expeditions and escalations. --- It is in this place that you could reward SP as a bonus (up to a limited amount each week), this SP would by the lore come from SOCT, as their reward for helping kill pirate factions. -- By pulling the SP as a reward for completing this sites. PVE players can get their reward, while PVPs could steal the reward by killing the PVEer and finishing the site. There are so many better options to get people to log on and stay logged on then... Aura "Hello player. Thank you for logging in, now go kill a rat and get 10k SP. See you tomorrow" "The Lord loosed upon them his fierce anger All of his fury and rage. He dispatched against them a band of Avenging Angels" - The Scriptures, Book II, Apocalypse 10:1 DIDE- is open to new members
Steijn Quay Industries 1045	Posted - 2016.04.11 15:13:02 - [1018] - Quote only just seen this thread, a resounding NO from me, absolutely stupid idea.
Valia Fournier Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 5	Posted - 2016.04.11 15:13:23 - [1019] - Quote The skillque was only a "daily" if we set a skill that ended in 24 hours or less. Most of the time our skills had a much longer duration meaning we only changed them every so often, perhaps once per month. AND The skillque was universal, killing NPCs is not. if you were an industry toon, you weren't forced to undock and risk your implants doing an activity you didn't want to do. I can't believe you think that undocking and killing an NPC is "meaningful" gameplay. It's not. You didn't address the "grind for skills" dynamic. Last, it's great that you gave us more insight into the project, which should have happened in your first post. But you took a LOT of feedback and changed....nothing. Fine, but you didn't tell us anything from 50+ pages of feedback that you were willing to look into changing. You just told us how we are wrong. Why solicit our feedback in the first place? This is the old way of CCP doing things, (post a feature, gather feedback, tell players how they are wrong rather than being collaborative) and it's extremely frustrating.
Black Pedro Yammerschooner 2368	Posted - 2016.04.11 15:14:11 - [1020] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: Black Pedro wrote: First, just to point out that while shooting your alt isn't very fun or interesting, neither is flying to a belt and shooting a single NPC at no risk. It would seem to me if you are setting the bar so low, that it isn't very much further down to shooting an alt from shooting a single NPC. People are upset because the road to max SP/year will include killing a rat and to change that, you propose that the best strategy be to have at least 2 account so you always have an alt available to kill? It's practically the same; shooting your alt is not significantly more challenging that shooting a rat. Whether I spend a minute undocking and shooting a rat for no reason, or undocking to shoot my alt for no reason, it is effectively the same amount of time, clicks, and risk. Completely trivial - just a mindless make-work chore. If you are going to reward people for so little, you might as well go whole hog with the design. The point after all is to get them to login everyday and this design satisfies that goal. Why Do They Gank?
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 27325	Posted - 2016.04.11 15:20:44 - [1021] - Quote CCP Rise wrote: Why Dailies? The skill queue was not a daily incentive. That's a patently absurd claim. The 24h queue was a means to avoid the 4am alarm clock skill-change logins, and it was 24h because that was all that was needed to achieve that goal. It did not in any way, shape, or form incentivise a daily login because you never had to log in daily to mange skills to begin with. The beauty of the skill system, especially with the 24h queue, was that it wasn't a daily requirement to log in GÇö you could do it at your leisure during the times you'd log in anyway. Of course you saw fewer logins and less activity when you removed the 24h limit. Everyone knew you would. The realisation that this happens is not reason enough to suddenly force people to log in at times when they otherwise wouldn't. Your fundamental problem is still that you are trying to bribe your way to an appearance of success rather than let people have fun when they log in, and being soured by the predictable results of the skill queue change is not an adequate reason to go completely nuts in the other direction. Quote: Why Skillpoints? The economic arguments are bunk GÇö if many people aren't motivated by those types of rewards, then that's a good thing. It means you've scaled it properly to only target a very specific audience that needs that kind of help. For those who aren't motivated by that, other things will already motivate them to log in and do what they do to earn that cash (and orders of magnitude more). For those that aren't motivated either way, you've already lost them because you are not offering gameplay that they want GÇö giving them SP for grinding content they've already rejected does not change this fact. Indeed, the argument you offer why SP is a good choice is the exact reason why it must not be SP: they are simply too valuable to too many people to offer the player a valid choice between doing what they want and doing what you want. And let's be clear here: what you want is utterly and completely irrelevant. Your opinions don't matter. If you want to matter, shut the sandbox down and construct a themepark where you decide what players do. Quote: Why so lazy? You have completely misunderstood the point here. The most fundamental flaw with this entire idea is not the SP, it's not the dailies GÇö it's that you are meddling with activities at all. Applying the same methodology to more activities does not solve the problem, because you're still dictating to players how they should spend their time. It just makes it worse since it will create massive imbalances in what's best described as the GÇ£action economyGÇ¥ of the game. There's no need to be coy: you want to reward people for logging in. So why are you being stupid about it? Just reward people for logging in. What they do while logged in is none of your business, and trying to meddle in it just makes everything else about the idea horrible. The core conceptual lunacy of the proposal is, and will always remain, that you dictate activities rather than activity. Consequently, you are not actually promoting activity GÇö you are promoting rote repetition that will keep people from engaging with the game. None of the design goals you present here suggest that ratting is a sensible activity to tie the rewards to. You are not deliberately keeping it simple GÇö you're deliberately making it stupidly complicated for some unconceivable reason. The simple solution is to reward logins. If you want to maintain a threshold level to increase the possibility that some unintended sidetracking happens, then that's fine, but that's still hellalot easier than what you're proposing. Hell, your decision to tie it to an activity actively works against that goal: GÇ£don't disturb me with [distraction], I'm farming my SP.GÇ¥ Quote: New players New players is an excellent reason why you should stay away from SP and look more towards economic incentives. Older players will gain substantially more from an SP scheme than new players will, with all the imbalances that come with that kind of bias, but they can easily out-earn some minor income increase that would mean the world to a new player. A feature does not need to be relevant to everyone to be successful. That's utter pigswill. A feature needs to be relevant to the target audience to be successful. You have failed to define a target audience, and have therefore accidentally targeted people that are likely not to benefit from the idea, or who will not let you reap the benefits you're after. Quote: We are taking your feedback seriously and if we don't make any changes before release we will absolutely be following up shortly after release with changes based on feedback and behavior. Right. We've all been down this road before and heard that exact line. What you mean in plain text is that you have no intention of changing this before release, and that you will ignore the predicable aftermath until it cannot be ignored an more, at which point you will try a new ill-conceived panicked solution. Your idea is very simple (in both meanings of the word): In order to boost your life-giving concurrent user stat, you want toGÇª 1) give ridiculous amounts of SPGÇª 2) to people who engage in a common activityGÇª 3) GÇªonce a day. A simpler way of doing what you want is to: 1) give something that can be had some other way, but perhaps not as convenientlyGÇª 2) to anyone who's logged inGÇª 3) GÇªfor a sufficient number of minutes each week or month. No need to balance activities; no need to set special trigger events; no need for any oddly timed action phases; no need to convince people that they should be doing something they don't enjoy; no need to make people feel they GÇ£lose out onGÇ¥ either rewards or on some fun activity.. Just use a stat you are already tracking, and let people play the game.
Terranid Meester Tactical Assault and Recon Unit 343	Posted - 2016.04.11 15:24:29 - [1022] - Quote You will start to have people who suddenly say 'No can't join fleet, I've got to do my daily'. A nerf to pvp. Disgusting. You have people who want to be pacifists in eve as eve is supposed to be a sandbox and they get unduly punished for it. In regards to old players doing such a poor system, this will increase the divide between active new players and active old players in terms of skill points as well as driving new players into average pve at best.
Lan Wang Knights of the Posing Meat FETID 2649	Posted - 2016.04.11 15:24:53 - [1023] - Quote CCP, did the removal of the 24hour skill queue reduce the amount of people in space and reduce content eve wide? genuine question FETID now recruiting pvp pilots & corporations \| lowsec pvp & piracy - Join FETID Loyalist to Angel Cartel & Serpentis
Lan Wang Knights of the Posing Meat FETID 2649	Posted - 2016.04.11 15:26:56 - [1024] - Quote Terranid Meester wrote: You will start to have people who suddenly say 'No can't join fleet, I've got to do my daily'. A nerf to pvp. Disgusting. You have people who want to be pacifists in eve as eve is supposed to be a sandbox and they get unduly punished for it. In regards to old players doing such a poor system, this will increase the divide between active new players and active old players in terms of skill points as well as driving new players into average pve at best. exactly and especially when a significant increase in people make systems busy enough that people need to travel 4-5 jumps just to find a rat to kill for this daily. dailies just increase solo play and the more dailies people have the less people will be playing with friends FETID now recruiting pvp pilots & corporations \| lowsec pvp & piracy - Join FETID Loyalist to Angel Cartel & Serpentis
Delilah Albertis School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 7	Posted - 2016.04.11 15:28:22 - [1025] - Quote Seraph Essael wrote: Delilah Albertis wrote: Seraph Essael wrote: Selling out... Selling out to who, the big record companies that they signed a 5 album deal with for 100 million dollars? I don't you quite understand the notion of "selling out". Pleas look up the term. I can't help you to understand it if you don't know what it means. It doesn't just translate into record companies... It's the notion that you compromise your integrity and/or principles in exchange for a personal gain... like for example...money. God forbid a company tries to keep a successful business running, do you know how a company remains successful? It grows. Do you know what it needs in order to grow? Profit. That said, this new mechanic is certainly not that kind of power money grab, it's completely optional, and you as a player are not paying a single real world dollar extra than you already are for it's implementation. If you're even paying anything at all as you could also just PLEX and not give CCP any dollars. So no, they are not compromising anyone's integrity for personal gain with this maneuver. If you truely feel in your heart that it is still the case they are sellout out (eve though that notion is completely bonkers), you are free to rid yourself of the shackles of eve and go explore real life in further depth. Like this new mechanic, you aren't forced into doing it, just like you will not be forced to stay in the game against your will.
Lord Haur Star Frontiers Brotherhood of Spacers 114	Posted - 2016.04.11 15:31:24 - [1026] - Quote Tikktokk Tokkzikk wrote: Instead, I suggest every character with an active skill queue SNIP Thirdly, players won't have to log in all their accounts three times to cycle through a bunch of characters they don't care about. This, Please. Having to repeat a mindnumbing activity on probably poorly trained characters is a serious turn-off. If a player is going to login and play because of this, having to relog twice more to get the SP on his other characters won't change that, and if anything would decrease actual meaningful content as the player is forced to spend x minutes faffing about on alts that could be spent on the main character. The limitation to active skill queue pilots would provide a reasonable balance to not having to do it per character.
Captain Semper OEG Freedom Among the Stars 105	Posted - 2016.04.11 15:38:28 - [1027] - Quote CCP Rise wrote: Why Skillpoints? There's been a lot of feedback here that this kind of feature would be acceptable if the rewards were more monetary, either LP or ISK or something similar. There's a few reasons that doesn't really work and we feel pulled towards SP. I think the biggest one is that many people simply won't be motivated by LP or ISK, especially in the amounts we would be restricted to giving. SP simply has higher demand across more playstyles and player ages and that just makes it a more powerful incentive. Second big reason that we actually tried designs using item and ISK rewards and it quickly creates a lot of economic imbalances. Any time we are giving something away without much activity cost we are heavily sabotaging someone's gameplay. Whether it's because of devaluing LP, causing major inflation, or crashing item markets, it's all bad for you guys so we would rather avoid it. Good point, Rise. But why not AURUM then? SP for some activity isnt right. From the birth to that day EvE was about "you dont need grind for char progression". And it was cool and unique. And now you want to add some boring stuff. But in your current version you FORCE pilots to logon. You are not encourage them with some cool reward. No. You say them like that: " If you wont logon and do boring thing you will lose some important stuff". And SP is damn imortant because the only way you can get SP - training (even injectors - some other guy did it). So make AURUM as reward. Its unique enough, its "want this stugf" pretty enough. And if i dont want stuff from shop i wont do daily and wont feel "inner empty" because of this. Amount of aurum per day could be realy low - 15-20 (for 450-600 per month - sky will not falling) In other hand - i have 100+kk SP - I DONT NEED SP AS A REWARD! ITS DAMN USELESS FOR ME!
Kovl Jita Flipping Inc. 14	Posted - 2016.04.11 15:38:58 - [1028] - Quote CCP Rise wrote: Back in Phoebe, we removed those limitations. Now, at the time, we were of two minds internally. We didn't like the experience around being punished for not logging in to update your queue, but also knew that some of those logins might be leading to meaningful gameplay and we shouldn't lightly let go of them. We leaned to the side of a better experience and removed the limitations, hoping that the logins we were generating were fairly empty, rarely leading to more actual activity in the universe. Well, it turns out we were wrong about that. 24hr queue was not a daily, but a stupid old limitation. There's no "might be leading to meaningful gameplay" there, only occasional coincidences. Besides with higher ranked skills it was barely an issue (while remaining a stupid drag with mandatory "log on some day or lose SP"). Also don't forget "jump fatigue" and ongoing dumbing down of industry, which were the shakeups back then. As for your current ideas, for the Nth time: You're not promoting meaningful (lol) activity. You're coercing people with SP to do brainless, meanigless, solo, zombielike daily chore. Hated by everyone but none the less performed around the clock because "omg loosing XP". And because you want big shiny PCU. Try to grasp the difference. CCP Rise wrote: If you look at Citadel feature list you should not have any concerns about our commitment to the EVE sandbox and the hardcore nature of our game. When I see citadels I see magical 10% fee 100% safety transportation service (excluding giant FU to wormholers getting full fairy rules) instead of at the very least mixed fairy/transportation for anything HS/LS/npc null (with ratios depending on true sec values) and mandatory full fairy for claimable null. So hypothetitcally if we have some future war, with alliance X kicking some citadel's ass of alliance Y with a few titans docked inside, then they will be safe and sound automagically transported to nearby whatever station instead of getting destroyed or dropped as they should be. Much hardcore indeed .... Oh and borderline braindead taxes to forcibly kick people out of HS stations (not going to work btw, you will see).
Captain Semper OEG Freedom Among the Stars 105	Posted - 2016.04.11 15:41:15 - [1029] - Quote Double post
Radzel BRASTUGA Federation 0	Posted - 2016.04.11 15:44:34 - [1030] - Quote CCP Rise wrote: Stuff. How about buff escalation? Give one escalation on the first mission or NPC killed on a belt, then reward with SP.
Azure and Argent Enlightened Industries Goonswarm Federation 10	Posted - 2016.04.11 15:48:45 - [1031] - Quote CCP Rise wrote: Small sidenote on activities: many of you mentioned PVP, remember that this is always problematic because the most effective way to PVP for rewards is just kill your own alt, which isn't very fun or interesting. Not fun or interesting are my exact thoughts regarding shooting NPCs in this game.
Jenn aSide Smokin Aces. 13886	Posted - 2016.04.11 15:51:27 - [1032] - Quote The arguments will continue of course, but you should all understand that this is a done deal. There isn't even the kind of mass outrage skill trading had and that still went through. it's your time to waste if that's what you choose, but at this point I've decided that life is too short to get riled up over minor video gamer changes. CCP Rise wrote: Okay, let's see if I can provide some context for our decision to add daily opportunities to eve and maybe answer some of your bigger questions.
Circumstantial Evidence 284	Posted - 2016.04.11 15:52:21 - [1033] - Quote CCP Rise wrote: Why Skillpoints? There's been a lot of feedback here that this kind of feature would be acceptable if the rewards were more monetary, either LP or ISK or something similar. Thank you for coming to us with a more detailed explanation. I still don't like creating SP from thin air as the reward, after being sold on the idea that skill point trading was "ok" because SP would come from other characters. I think LP can work w/o crashing markets if the reward is unique and interesting. Look at the popularity of the Sisters of EVE combat suit for Project Discovery. Create new, unique items that reward a daily commitment at 3 months, 6 months, 1 year. Something along these lines: 3 months of Daily LP: new storyline Expanded Cargohold module, with 1% better stats than T2 6 months of Daily LP: new storyline Damage Control with 1% better stats than T2 DCU 12 months of Daily LP: selection of new faction navy BC's with 1% better stats than existing navy BC's
SebN Hoplite Brigade 3	Posted - 2016.04.11 15:57:21 - [1034] - Quote CCP Rise wrote: Okay, let's see if I can provide some context for our decision to add daily opportunities to eve and maybe answer some of your bigger questions. Whether it's because of devaluing LP, causing major inflation, or crashing item markets, it's all bad for you guys so we would rather avoid it. So you would rather devalue the core mechanic and key selling point of the game as a whole? Honestly i dont have any issue with daily (or a better option, weekly) "quests" being added to the game, just please, for the game as a whole, dont give SP as a reward, the only way SP should be introduced into the game is by the training mechanic. You are basically breaking the fundamental mechanic of game by doing this.
Tetsel Heretic Army 256	Posted - 2016.04.11 16:00:16 - [1035] - Quote CCP Rise wrote: Wow CCP And finally the traditional MMO comparisons. While I found most of these comments to be the most entertaining, it's pretty absurd to think that any feature which can be found in a traditional MMO appearing in EVE means we are headed down the road to battlegrounds and dragon killing. You might not, but it what it appears to be, we're not in your brain, we don't know what you think, all we saw is that you jump into those kind of lazy gameplay (yes it is, in every MMO) so how could you expect some of us will not react like that ? I shouldn't need incentive to log on everyday in EVE other than "It's f***ing fun, this game is awesome", if you need to add such a "feature"(lol), means you failed somewhere else at providing tools for fun. Whatever you do, for whatever reason, adding such a cheap feature in EVE will appear as a cheap decision, no matter how you explain it. Ask the PR guy in CCP, how it appears to be is as much important as what it really is. On a personnal note: How do you expect this feature to work on people like me that don't want to shot NPC on purpose for ss or any other "RP" reasons ? Loyal servent to Mother Amamake. @EVE_Tetsel Another Bittervet Please Ignore
Altrue Exploration Frontier inc 2024	Posted - 2016.04.11 16:17:29 - [1036] - Quote CCP Rise wrote: Now, with before and after data we can see that making it into the client is a huge step towards real activity You mean, like the infamous Opportunity system who had a huge impact, but you ended up admitting that it is only giving a few more percents? CCP Rise wrote: 10 minutes More like an hour if we have to log-in every alt we have on every account. Even a new player with one account would have to do this three times per day. And you seem to think that all it takes is warping to a belt to kill an NPC, but boy is that false. Signature Tanking Best Tanking Retired Exploration Frontier Inc [Ex-F] CEO - Ex-BRAVE - Eve-guides.fr
Gully Alex Foyle Black Fox Marauders 4356	Posted - 2016.04.11 16:22:52 - [1037] - Quote CCP Rise wrote: Well-written stuff Thanks for better clarifying your objectives. I understand them, but if you're relating this to the skill queue you're taking things *way too far!* In practice, the 24h skill queue limit meant people had to log in, on average, once a week or so. Simply because you'd often have a multi-day or even multi-week skill in training. Going from once a week to every day is really an exaggeration. Trying to see this from your perspective, the 'goal' of getting juicy SP needs to be achievable or else most people will just say 'f* this' and give up. For many of us, logging in every day and zapping a rat every single damn day is both unfeasible and obnoxious. Not to mention doing it on all alts, which really does take time out of the 'oh while I'm logged in I might as well do something else' that you're trying to achieve. So even if I continue to dislike this idea, for your own good and to actually reach your objectives I believe you should at least: 1) limit it to one char (any char) per account 2) make it a weekly or bi-weekly. or a formula like 'any 2 days/week', doable for example in both days of a weekend Else I'm afraid you'll only get either people who just don't do it or OCD-type people that just do it robotically and then log-off. Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
Thercon Jair Macabre Votum Northern Coalition. 14	Posted - 2016.04.11 16:26:44 - [1038] - Quote I'm really not a huge fan of this implementation. 1. 24h skillqueue removal as reason d'+¬tre for daily logins is disingenious: you could put in shorter skills while you were playing, then kick in a long skill upon logout. No daily logins needed. Unless you were new and only had short skills. 2. The beauty of eve to me is that I don't have to log in every day and grind daily missions to progress, try the same dungeon every 24h to get that piece of equipment to progress. I can log in at my leisure to make isk or go explode some ships. Introducing a 10k SP daily reward asks me to log in every character I have to perform one mindless task to stay ahead of the curve. This, to me, certainly isn't fun. It's what made me return to eve from other MMOs: I have time for RL and I can do whatever I want, when I want, without the nagging thought at the back of my head "you'll lose out on SP! Log in! Kill that 1 NPC", or 10 if you decide so. Which would incidentally make for a great MMO/RPG trope for: "Go kill 10 rats in the sewers."
Ao Kishuba Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 45	Posted - 2016.04.11 16:31:54 - [1039] - Quote Two big draws of EVE are that 1) the players are mature and almost exclusively adults and 2) the content is open and player-driven. Both of these features are related, and are unique to EVE as far as I have seen in my years of gaming. 1) If we are adults, why release a mechanic which treats us like children? The idea that we need an incentive of killing a boar for our daily XP is insulting to our intelligence. Project Discovery would not have worked in any other MMO, though similar (and much less complex) activities are available as phone apps. Why trust the players with something as intensive as Project Discovery if we can't even be trusted to log on of our own accord? 2) We clearly don't need any kind of daily XP reward to drive content. Surely the results of World War Bee speak for themselves: we were given Aegis and Phoebe, and in return we brought in larger player counts than have been seen in a long time. We're providing the content which drives existing players to resubscribe and new players to join the fold. With these two in mind, where is the cause for concern about player counts? Is the worry that we will all unsub as soon as the major fighting is over, that we won't find something else to to? Do the people behind this decision not think the Citadel expansion will ride the wave of publicity and players generated by World War Bee to become the single most successful release in EVE history? We are not always the most reasonable community, and sometimes the Reddit threads can get over the top in their toxicity and resistance to change, but that the some of developers are even considering implementing a mechanic like this betrays a profound distrust of the EVE Online playerbase. If our misbehavior has been sufficient to warrant such a response, despite the revenue we have generated as the result of the war we've been running, then I am truly sorry; additionally, if this daily XP reward system is implemented on Tranquility as described in this thread, I think we will all be very, very sorry.
Advenat Bedala Facehoof Out of Sight. 128	Posted - 2016.04.11 16:32:52 - [1040] - Quote CCP Rise wrote: Okay, let's see if I can provide some context for our decision to add daily opportunities to eve and maybe answer some of your bigger questions. Why Dailies? Why Skillpoints? Why so lazy? New players Wow CCP Hope some of this helps. We are taking your feedback seriously and if we don't make any changes before release we will absolutely be following up shortly after release with changes based on feedback and behavior. Ohhh. It's really not a joke. First. You owe me an astero I game away because it's not a 1 April joke Second. "Why not" reasons Why not dailies? Daily is a "have to do" thing if reward is good. And even worse it cannot be manipulated by players. For example before skill queue changes I could place a long skill if I need to be offline long. I can plan my activities. Daily mean I must login every day. I have to login. And why "have to do" things are bad if out of player control? They stop game feel like a game. Stop game feel like entertainment... And make game feel like work. We have some work IRL, lol. Why not Skillpoints? Didn't you say that all skillpoints gained from skill training but not from real money, ingame money or grind (ex-üept for compensations for crashes)? It should stay same If not speaking about promises - SP reward is simply too big. It makes daily "have to do" thing. Also. Do you really think that such daily will not be exploited? or automated? With this implementation daily can give half of everyday SP income! Why not so lazy? Lazy implementation feels like artificial thing. This ruins atmosphere. Anything must feel like a part of game or EVE will not feel like a world and become common... And games that people play again and again all fell like a world. If you'll really made dailies a part of EVE-world, EVE-lore it will be Ok. Maybe Wow CCP Why so whine about traditional MMO things appearing in EVE? Just because EVE is unique alternative for all that traditional MMOs. That's why I'm here. That's why I'm still here. Please don't force me to leave. Because it's really no other game like EVE.
Harkin Issier Alcoholocaust. Test Alliance Please Ignore 84	Posted - 2016.04.11 16:36:46 - [1041] - Quote I continue to loathe this idea. It's "content" people do not like when it appears in other games. It undermines the entire "you don't grind for XP" idea that makes Eve different (which was already partially undermined with SP Injectors and I vehemently opposed those). This spits in the face of your loyal customers. FOMO will just turn the heat up for burnout. All for a disgustingly empty mechanic used to artificially inflate your numbers. You should be embarrassed.
Xe'Cara'eos A Big Enough Lever 412	Posted - 2016.04.11 16:37:45 - [1042] - Quote This needs to be expanded to: gaining bounty of over X isk (say 10,000?) OR mining Y volume(say 1000m3?) OR hacking Z relic or data cans (say 4?) OR killing one sleeper ship OR killing 1 player ship in losec (outside of corp and/or alliance) OR killing 1 player ship (outside of corp AND alliance) outside your sov in nullsec OR participating in 1 succesful kill in highsec (so in a suicide gank on a freighter, everyone gets the bonus, but so do all the anti-gankers who show up to jam) OR activate a remote repair module on a player who has a player vs player flag (against someone outside of corp/alliance) or something similar, so that all playstyles are covered. ATM this hurts scanning/hacking and PVP/logi characters unreasonably, whilst rewarding miners and missioners unevenly This is an interesting (and probably good) direction to take to get people to log in/de-cloak/undock and potentially get shot at, but at the minute is too uneven on who gets the rewards For posting an idea into F&I: come up with idea, try and think how people could abuse this, try to fix your idea - loop the process until you can't see how it could be abused, then post to the forums to let us figure out how to abuse it..... If your idea can be abused, it [u]WILL[/u] be.
Naso Aya Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde 75	Posted - 2016.04.11 16:38:16 - [1043] - Quote Lan Wang wrote: CCP, did the removal of the 24hour skill queue reduce the amount of people in space and reduce content eve wide? genuine question That was implied in CCP Rise's response several pages ago. A 24 hour cooldown, or even 22 hour cooldown, means that at some point we won't be able to log in as CCP rise said "on lunch break". I didn't see any response to the suggestions of once every day/once every downtime- with a reset point defined by CCP Some people will be able to do two each day, then skip out on the next day, but that, to me, is better than the alternative. I hate living my life by clocks, and don't want to see any more introduced. I also think CCP is overthinking this- they say they want a lazy implementation, but don't want to have it be too easy. Let it be easy. Give us the skill points for free. That is, each day, give us the skill points just for logging in. Similarly to pre-Phoebe, we lose training time (though only 5 hours instead until we put a new queue in), and similarly to pre-Phoebe, you're forcing people to log in. Instead of a daily, it'd be what you want it to be- a reward, for logging in. We could call it a log in reward. There are lots of people who don't want to shoot rats. They shouldn't have to shoot rats. I would really like to see a clarification on the 24 daily nature of things.
Sexy Cakes Have A Seat 1082	Posted - 2016.04.11 16:43:22 - [1044] - Quote Amarisen Gream wrote: HOW ABOUT YOU GIVE US SOME UPDATED CONTENT INSTEAD, SO WE WANNA LOG ON AND RUN THE NEW SITES???? This. **** dailies. Someone should be slapped for even bringing it up. Not today spaghetti.
Mr Floydy Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork 317	Posted - 2016.04.11 16:44:04 - [1045] - Quote CCP Rise wrote: Okay, let's see if I can provide some context for our decision to add daily opportunities to eve and maybe answer some of your bigger questions. Ok, I get the logic behind the introduction of this now, but I still dislike the implementation. Why lock it into killing NPCs? Make PvP kills count, making mining count, make scanning an anom count, make hacking count, make PI count. Add some additional options for people to get this without forcing people to have to go shoot an NPC. Give out the reward as an incentive for any activity that gets people to log into the game and undock. Yes PI doesn't necessarily require undocking, depending on what you are doing - but I felt it's fair to suggest despite this.
hurgmurflUr No Corporation for Old Spacemen 0	Posted - 2016.04.11 16:48:56 - [1046] - Quote This sounds like a bad idea.
Nerf Air Kaire Desine Exhale. 2	Posted - 2016.04.11 16:51:22 - [1047] - Quote Been 3 years afk. Paid for a month. Saw this. 3 more afk years awaits.
Dino Zavr Shadow Owls 71	Posted - 2016.04.11 16:52:55 - [1048] - Quote Dear CCP Rise, Sorry I am to completely disagree with your point of view. CCP Rise wrote: We didn't like the experience around being punished for not logging in to update your queue, but also knew that some of those logins might be leading to meaningful gameplay and we shouldn't lightly let go of them. You think that once logged in to perform daily chores players might be hooked by talking with friends in Corp chat, invited to fleet, e.t.c. Actually, that stupid routines do are exactly the opposite. I am to note that leveling up in Eve requires a long time and it is NATURAL that players have several accounts normally three (for example, main, co-pilot providing bonuses and scout/tackler) or even more for professional miners. Also there are other useful toons on these accounts like cyno alts, inventors, haulers, station traders, industrialists, planetary and so on. Let's say I log in each of my nine (or six or twelve) toons to shoot that damn rat. Toons with active queues need these additional SPs, characters with inactive queues (I don't farm ISKies enough to farm all nine PLEXes per month) would be GÇ£milkedGÇ¥ for SP with extractors to speed up main's learning or just for sale. You noted absolutely correctly that skillpoints are the most powerful reward in Eve. So, friend invites me to fleet. I do respond: GÇ£Sorry, mate, not now! I still have to login my other eight toons to kill that damn ratsGÇ¥. I don't join the fleet because i HAVE to complete these stupid daily chores to remain competive and not to regret about missed SPs. Dailies feature ruins content instead of helping to create it. CCP Rise, please, reconsider !
Dinic Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave 3	Posted - 2016.04.11 16:57:33 - [1049] - Quote Please let hacking a can in a relic/data site count towards the daily. Personally I've hacked thousands of cans since I've last been responsible for a death in New Eden.
Mayharm EVE University Ivy League 5	Posted - 2016.04.11 16:59:19 - [1050] - Quote IN A PLAYER DRIVEN FUTURE - REVISITED [11:15] Saturday Servers are online and you log in with the anticipation of spending some solid play time after a hard week at work. Last weekend you created 7 thorax hulls and every day since you've logged in for ten minutes after work to complete a corporation daily to hand one in, Now it's time to reap those rewards. In your journal are 7 entries with timers ranging from 7 days to 14. All of them 3/10 complexes, Sweeeet! Well worth the effort of making all those hulls. [11:45] You're half way through your reward sites when the call comes out that an enemy corp has brought a fleet to blow up corp assets and tto form a counter-fleet. Since the timers have days before they expire, you decide to go join the fleet rather than continue, you can always do them tomorrow. CCP Rise - I'm still not convinced SP is a good reward, but if it's at the end of this chain of activities at least it starts with player driven content and has more meaningful PvE options than killing one npc.
Mizhir TURN LEFT 74729	Posted - 2016.04.11 16:59:53 - [1051] - Quote CCP Rise wrote: Why Dailies? So first lets talk a little history. EVE had a daily logon incentive for most of it's existence: the 24 hour skill queue limit. Back in Phoebe, we removed those limitations. Now, at the time, we were of two minds internally. We didn't like the experience around being punished for not logging in to update your queue, but also knew that some of those logins might be leading to meaningful gameplay and we shouldn't lightly let go of them. We leaned to the side of a better experience and removed the limitations, hoping that the logins we were generating were fairly empty, rarely leading to more actual activity in the universe. Well, it turns out we were wrong about that. Now, with before and after data we can see that making it into the client is a huge step towards real activity, even if the reason for logging in in the first place seems artificial. So this leads us to where we are now, attempting to find ways to create more logins that also don't feel like such a punishment as the skill queue limitations did. This may not turn out to be the perfect alternative but that's what we're looking for. Even though dailies make people log in more. It will just be people who log in and do some mindless activity and then log out again. You need something that gives people a reason to participate in something more interesting rather than just log in each day and do 1 simple little thing. Likewise it punishes players who can't play every day but got more time to spare the other days. Instead I suggest you to make weekly opportunities and then make them more intesting. Give the players x amount of goals each week but make a cap on how many they can do for SP, e.g. completeing 3 out of 5 goals will give the full SP. It will allow players to choose opportunities that match the playstyle they like and it will make a flexible system for us players who have an inflexible schedule. One Man Crew - Collective Solo PVP - Video is out!
Zylus Aldent Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective 1	Posted - 2016.04.11 17:07:01 - [1052] - Quote As per CCPs own data (http://i.imgur.com/h7lNte1.png) most of Eve's player base is in their late 20s or early 30s. Most people in that age range who can afford to pay for an MMO have jobs and other real life commitments which make logging in daily challenging at best. The fact that Eve has (up until now) respected my time is a major selling point for me, and judging from the figures and rage here, probably a lot of other people. Teenage me wouldn't have been bothered by dailies, he had all the time in the world, but teenage me would also have got bored of Eve months ago and stopped paying CCP money... This change makes me feel that my pattern of play (3-4 hours, twice a week) is less valuable to CCP than a more "regular" player, when it's entirely probable that my 3-4 hours adds more content to the sandbox than someone logging on seven times to shoot an NPC. If you want to incentivise people to log in, please consider those who simply can't log in every day, maybe by making the rewards weekly, or by capping them at 2-3 per week, or taking play time into account, or something. Also, r.e. the reasons for the bonus being skill points and not ISK - since the advent of skill injectors skill points are ISK, and vice-versa, so CCPs "SP are more of a motivation" argument may hold for psychological reasons, but it doesn't make economic sense. At current Jita prices (with a lot of rounding) 50 days of dailies fills a skill extractor and nets the player ~400m ISK, or ~8m ISK a day (after paying for the extractor). The opposite is also true - you can buy skill injectors to opt out of this feature at a cost (albeit one that escalates based on the number of SP your character has). TL;DR: won't somebody think of the parents, and SP = ISK, so just give ISK and avoid the rage.
Rivr Luzade Kenshin. DARKNESS. 2431	Posted - 2016.04.11 17:08:02 - [1053] - Quote CCP Rise wrote: Wow CCP And finally the traditional MMO comparisons. While I found most of these comments to be the most entertaining, it's pretty absurd to think that any feature which can be found in a traditional MMO appearing in EVE means we are headed down the road to battlegrounds and dragon killing. If you look at Citadel feature list you should not have any concerns about our commitment to the EVE sandbox and the hardcore nature of our game. Because that is how it is perceived. You do not generate activity, you generate people logging in, going to a belt in high sec or their totally secluded Null or run a quick L1 mission in Low, get that rat kill and log off again. This is not activity. If you really wanted to "create activity", you would need to implement something like this or that (2 shameless self-ads, idgah). Yes, these things are not "easy to implement", but a mechanic that creates meaningful and impressive activity and experiences should not be "easy to implement". CCP is just taking the easy mode way instead of actually trying to improve the game. Instead of that, you continue to waste your expensive dev time on something useless such as the new map, the new camera, the new scanning system (which makes all the existing and working mechanics worse, by the way). And since you bring Citadels into play: I see nothing there that makes the game more enjoyable or easier for, in particular, smaller and medium sized groups. Whenever you place such an expensive structure, everyone knows where it is without having to search the system and it is nothing but a roflstomp magnet for bigger groups and makes it easier for them to subdue smaller groups. UI Improvement Collective My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
leich Nocturnal Romance Cynosural Field Theory. 56	Posted - 2016.04.11 17:10:33 - [1054] - Quote You could implement this to give people a reason to undock. or you could just give people a real reason to undock such as i dont know fun gameplay mabey???
Jeremiah Saken The Fall of Leviathan 522	Posted - 2016.04.11 17:22:18 - [1055] - Quote CCP Rise wrote: If you look at Citadel feature list you should not have any concerns about our commitment to the EVE sandbox and the hardcore nature of our game. What are you talking about? Your precious citadels won't even drop stuff after destroyed. Hardcore? Miner on hardest level is more hardcore. Rise did you even do dailies? It doesn't matter what will be the reward. Burnout will eat players after 30 days. Been there done that. What will you do when WWB will end? It will end eventually. You will be giving SP just for logging? "(...) I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas (...)" "Here in the garden of the arcane delights dark shadows overwhelm us and and we become blind..."
Magdalina Anais Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 9	Posted - 2016.04.11 17:30:36 - [1056] - Quote Once upon a log ago there wasn't a skill queue. There was however skills. So once in a while you timed it wrong and would get up on an alarm clock. No SP lost, but lesson learned. Then you always kept skills in reserve to make sure you could game the system, login whenever you wanted and still get full sp. Then the 24hr skill queue came. To me this was excellent. Whenever I'd be unable to play, I'd just insert a long skill. Gaming the system to be able to play whenever I wanted. But without the need to get up for a skill change alone. Then the skill queue got limitless. Very handy, but not really a game improvement. But highly gameable: For skills there's not need to log in at all (except when you put in a short, like 100day queue). Now there's this kill one npc (on research altas with no offensive skills at all? On titan pilots?) or loose sp. There's no need, except to kill that npc. The incentive is fully artificial. And doesn't invoke choices. There's no game-ability. You gotta 'play' every day. Smart people did not need to see skills and their queueing as a chore. This cannot be described otherwise. I hated wow daily quests and I will hate this daily chore. Maybe make it so you can kill the npc on a simple android/iphone/winmobile app? Or via crest? Implement some sort of evejewelled or eveville?
Galigen Iron.Guard Iron Armada 0	Posted - 2016.04.11 17:37:49 - [1057] - Quote Every game I played that has dailies has burnt me out, both WoW and guild wars 2, because it is tedious and annoying. Some people are going to say just don't do them then but a 20% increase to SP is too much to ignore. For me at least dailies cause me to log in just for the daily get bored and then log off because coming in to do the daily is such a buzz kill I don't even want to play anymore. And once I get behind on dailies and notice that I'm falling behind everyone I start thinking "why log in at all" and at that point I quit. I have burnt out of eve a ton in the past and I just this summer came back after a 3 year hiatus from the game not because of dailies or wanting to get more sp but because of the new awesome changes coming. The the capital changes, and the citadels make me want to keep playing to see what they change in New Eden, some arbitrary reward structure won't. In fact it will likely make me cancel my sub again. But it won't be to protest of the feature, it will be a simple case of burn out. So please reconsider.
Neadayan Drakhon Heuristic Industrial And Development AddictClan 125	Posted - 2016.04.11 17:39:30 - [1058] - Quote CCP Rise wrote: Why Dailies? So first lets talk a little history. EVE had a daily logon incentive for most of it's existence: the 24 hour skill queue limit. Back in Phoebe, we removed those limitations... ... So this leads us to where we are now, attempting to find ways to create more logins that also don't feel like such a punishment as the skill queue limitations did. This may not turn out to be the perfect alternative but that's what we're looking for. There's been a lot of feedback here that this kind of feature would be acceptable if the rewards were more monetary, either LP or ISK or something similar. There's a few reasons that doesn't really work and we feel pulled towards SP. I think the biggest one is that many people simply won't be motivated by LP or ISK, especially in the amounts we would be restricted to giving. SP simply has higher demand across more playstyles and player ages and that just makes it a more powerful incentive. Second big reason that we actually tried designs using item and ISK rewards and it quickly creates a lot of economic imbalances. Any time we are giving something away without much activity cost we are heavily sabotaging someone's gameplay. Whether it's because of devaluing LP, causing major inflation, or crashing item markets, it's all bad for you guys so we would rather avoid it. We get you're trying to boost online count, this is not the way to do it. Using dailies as a motivational tool is NOT good game design, its operant conditioning. Dailies do not belong in EVE. Trying to make somethign that isn't a punishment? Dailies are a punishment, in that if you don't do them, especially for an SP reward, you're punished. SP as a reward for for any activity is an absolutely terrible idea, dailies of any kind are a terrible idea anyway. You're devaluing SP yet again, and devaluing the game as a whole by doing so. Trying to avoid devaluing other currencies and crashing markets doesn't create an excuse to devalue SP further. CCP Rise wrote: ...We want you to be able to collect this reward during a lunch break or a 10 minute period where your kids are in timeout but also want to make sure there's some real gameplay associated with it. We think getting to a belt or gate for an NPC is about the right mix and that's why we've landed with this. That said, we've also deliberately tried to keep it simple so that we can deploy fast and adjust based on how it gets used. We are absolutely open to expanding the list of activities in the future and imagined that as one of the most likely first iterations. Small sidenote on activities: many of you mentioned PVP, remember that this is always problematic because the most effective way to PVP for rewards is just kill your own alt, which isn't very fun or interesting. No! Even you admit that a pvp reward for killing your own alt isn't fun or interesting, how is killing a random rat any better? You honestly think getting to a belt for an SP reward is a good mix? No, its insulting. It'll get used because people will feel compelled to use it to avoid being left out, not because they really want to do dailies. Yes, I'm aware that not everyone will feel this way. Far too many will. Logging on should be because one wants to, not because they'll feel like they're missing out if they don't. CCP Rise wrote: New players Seeing a lot of talk about this feature in the context of new players and I can just say that this is not a new player targeted feature. We hope it's good for new players as well but for the feature to be successful it needs to be relevant to everyone. I'd like to point out again that making people feel like they're going to miss out if they don't participate doesn't make the relevance particularly valid. I'd also point out that not everyone will find this relevant anyway, for whatever reasons they may have (after all, this is a sandbox, what is relevant to one person won't be to someone else). CCP Rise wrote: Wow CCP And finally the traditional MMO comparisons. While I found most of these comments to be the most entertaining, it's pretty absurd to think that any feature which can be found in a traditional MMO appearing in EVE means we are headed down the road to battlegrounds and dragon killing. If you look at Citadel feature list you should not have any concerns about our commitment to the EVE sandbox and the hardcore nature of our game. Comparing it to other games is perfectly valid, and it's not so much the slippery slope toward just another generic mmo; its that the idea of dailies is anathema to the core of EVE (or any sandbox game), and for a great many players one of the very reasons we left other games and play EVE. This was pointed out MANY times in this thread, and your response to it shows you don't get that. WE DO NOT WANT DAILIES IN ANY FORM. CCP Rise wrote: Hope some of this helps. We are taking your feedback seriously and if we don't make any changes before release we will absolutely be following up shortly after release with changes based on feedback and behavior. If you're REALLY taking the feedback seriously the ONLY thing you guys should be doing is dropping this concept immediately without implementing it in any form, even on the test server. Implementing this makes it clear you're really not taking this thread seriously at all. The feedback in this thread has been overwhelmingly negative. The response to all this feedback should've been, "Ok, we won't implement this in any form." No dailies!
Mizhara Del'thul Kyn'aldrnari 710	Posted - 2016.04.11 17:45:56 - [1059] - Quote Still no response to the "This is going from playing a game to doing a chore" part of the criticisms, CCP? Welp. Want people active and undocking, make it fun and engaging, not something they do because they feel they have to. Revamp PvE for those who are into that sort of thing (bleh, can't stand it), revamp Faction War so that's more engaging again (see how Fozziesov enabled massive activity and war, now give FW the same treatment) and so on. That's what I'll bet most people want from this game. More mechanics, revamped mechanics and refining what's out there right now in order to make undocking something we look forwards to. Something we look forward to doing together. More wacky fleet mechanics like the CDessies, etc, further invigorating small gang/medium gang PvP. Fuckin' kill off-grid links so there's much less barrier for entry in solo PvP for that matter. There's so much you can do to make people active and undock, and you guys go with dailies? Ratting for SP? It's a disincentive to logging in! I don't want to have a chore waiting for me when I log in. I certainly don't want a chore waiting for me on multiple accounts. I want things I enjoy waiting for me, like a little bit of PvP, or social interaction. Maybe some industry stuff on the alt. Something satisfying. Popping a red triangle is not.
Raindeth FACTION Inc. 9	Posted - 2016.04.11 17:47:46 - [1060] - Quote I saw this on Reddit and rushed right over. This is not just a bad idea. This will KILL Eve. Please do some research on what motivates people. Read the book, "Drive" by Daniel Pink. I can tell you now what science says will happen if you do this: In the short-term, you will enjoy increased logins sure, but as people associate logging in with being PAID, over time not only will people require more and more reward to justify the effort, but you will have now told people that logging in is not "fun." It is something for which you must be paid to do and therefore cannot be something you are CHOOSING to do. People will view logging in as a CHORE. Congratulations! That will kill your game. Now, even though I am not being PAID to do so, I will solve your problem of wanting to increase logins but not knowing how to do so: Associate some real purpose with a more frequent login. Nothing 1 for 1 though. Your PLEX for Good is a good starting place. Perhaps something in which (doing X) will cause a small donation by CCP toward PLEX for Good, but (activity X) cannot be performed, or is not rewarded more than once every 22 hours or probably better, every 72 hours. Something along those line, or perhaps giving a vote as to how PLEX for Good is donated in the real world. Do something in game that tips the scale slightly in the direction you want. I hope you read this before destroying Eve. <-- That's not hyperbole.
Moac Tor Cyber Core Stain Confederation 481	Posted - 2016.04.11 17:50:24 - [1061] - Quote All I can say after reading CCP's latest response is that is confirms that CCP Rise has completely lost his mind and has shown everyone that his short sighted band aid approach to game design should bar him from any serious position in the future development of the game. I find it hard to grasp that someone could seriously believe that logging in to shoot a rat on every character owned is somehow conducive to a good game experience and will promote content. Personally I only really play at the weekends anyway, and I am not going to log in every character at the weekend for a measly 20k SP as I am past caring. I do pity all the players who are going to feel obliged to login every day to do this though, I am sure it will suck the enjoyment out of the game for them. I don't feel it is worth going over any reasoning with Rise as he has shown that once his mind is set on stuff like this he won't change his view based upon player feedback which is why I feel annoyed to see another one of his fail posts yet again after skill injectors. To sum up I will simply suggest that Rise needs to read and then re-read Tippia 's analysis until it sinks in, particularly the part quoted below. Tippia wrote: Quote: Why so lazy? You have completely misunderstood the point here. The most fundamental flaw with this entire idea is not the SP, it's not the dailies GÇö it's that you are meddling with activities at all. Applying the same methodology to more activities does not solve the problem, because you're still dictating to players how they should spend their time. It just makes it worse since it will create massive imbalances in what's best described as the GÇ£action economyGÇ¥ of the game. There's no need to be coy: you want to reward people for logging in. So why are you being stupid about it? Just reward people for logging in. What they do while logged in is none of your business, and trying to meddle in it just makes everything else about the idea horrible. The core conceptual lunacy of the proposal is, and will always remain, that you dictate activities rather than activity. Consequently, you are not actually promoting activity GÇö you are promoting rote repetition that will keep people from engaging with the game. None of the design goals you present here suggest that ratting is a sensible activity to tie the rewards to. You are not deliberately keeping it simple GÇö you're deliberately making it stupidly complicated for some unconceivable reason. The simple solution is to reward logins. If you want to maintain a threshold level to increase the possibility that some unintended sidetracking happens, then that's fine, but that's still hellalot easier than what you're proposing. Hell, your decision to tie it to an activity actively works against that goal: GÇ£don't disturb me with [distraction], I'm farming my SP.GÇ¥ Modulated ECM Effects An Alternative to Skill Trading
Breach Reaper Crimea River. Intrepid Crossing 0	Posted - 2016.04.11 17:53:20 - [1062] - Quote I refuse to accept this as an acceptable way to get people logging in. SP as a reward for shooting npcs (something many people such as myself never do) is too overpowered and forces people to play the way CCP wants instead on how they want.
Cue More Sky Fighters 0	Posted - 2016.04.11 18:04:18 - [1063] - Quote I like how EVE currently respects my time. I don't HAVE to log in tonight. I might miss some fun, but I don't feel guilty for missing a reward for doing some stupid chore in a game. Guild Wars 2 did that, and I burned out and quit the game in less than a month. EVE is not an MMO that requires these kinds of incentives to make people log in. This is a terrible change, and will drive away many parts of your core player base.
Ria Nieyli 43312	Posted - 2016.04.11 18:07:56 - [1064] - Quote CCP Rise wrote: Why Skillpoints? There's been a lot of feedback here that this kind of feature would be acceptable if the rewards were more monetary, either LP or ISK or something similar. There's a few reasons that doesn't really work and we feel pulled towards SP. I think the biggest one is that many people simply won't be motivated by LP or ISK, especially in the amounts we would be restricted to giving. SP simply has higher demand across more playstyles and player ages and that just makes it a more powerful incentive. Second big reason that we actually tried designs using item and ISK rewards and it quickly creates a lot of economic imbalances. Any time we are giving something away without much activity cost we are heavily sabotaging someone's gameplay. Whether it's because of devaluing LP, causing major inflation, or crashing item markets, it's all bad for you guys so we would rather avoid it. Well, with the advent of skill injectors skill points have a direct ISK price. 10,000 SP equals about 13,000,000 ISK at current injector prices. If you take diminishing returns in account, it's even higher. Currently I'm in the 50m-80m SP bracket, so accruing 30 days of daily SP rewards would mean that I've saved myself about 650m ISK by not buying someone's injector. You're still sabotaging someone's gameplay, namely people who provide injectors for the market. Moreover, people who can't log in for whatever reason would be disproportionally punished by not getting their daily rewards. For example, last year, I had no access to EVE for two and a half months. If this feature was present at the time, I would've lost about 750,000 SP by not logging in, even though my skill queue was still running during that period. This reward goes straight against a core tenet of the game and will alienate people and cause burnout. If offering something else than SP means that people would be uninterested in daily rewards, it just means that daily rewards really have no place in this game. "slang" is shortened language for "shortened language"
Bobbi Attwell Crimea River. Intrepid Crossing 10	Posted - 2016.04.11 18:21:12 - [1065] - Quote No. Just no. Sp are too valuable to do this with. This will instantly take me from "not sure I feel like logging in today" to "well, the longer I don't log in the less I'll think about why I'm being penalized despite you already having my money" If you're absolutely committed to doing know that A) I will be sending Gilmer a nicely worded mail explaining why you've managed to drive my 10 accounts away from the game. B) there are better ways of doing this. (take off 12 he's from the next remap, allow the player to move 10k sp to the unallocated pool from some skill they've trained without penalty, etc...) As it is... You really need to listen to your players (lol cause you totally listened to the feedback surrounding market taxes) again or get bent.
Commander A9 The Scope Gallente Federation 701	Posted - 2016.04.11 18:21:45 - [1066] - Quote The learning cliff suddenly seems to be getting flatter and flatter... I'm not too wild about this... But, hell, let's test it out on Singularity and see where it goes. Recommendations: -enable ships wobbling in hangar view (pre-Captains Quarters) -add more missions (NPC fleet vs. NPC fleets that actually shoot) -STOP NERFING EVERYTHING! Join Live Events!
Viserys Anstian Wayward Chickens 20	Posted - 2016.04.11 18:34:24 - [1067] - Quote I thought about this more. For me at least, the most miserable time I had in the game was grinding NPC missions. LVL4s etc, just boring. The only fun I got was trying to run them in very small ships. But even that was "orbit at 1000" and set the guns to blazing. come back a few minutes later and swap targets. Killing NPCs made me leave the game twice before. Now I'm a pacifist. The only PVP i engage in is when I'm the target. But I still prefer that to the NPC grind. I used to get kicks out of seeing how far into NS I could get in a T1 frigate before getting blown up. I don't mind getting blown up, but the thought of shooting one more NPC is mind numbing. Yes, I know it would be optional. But its like anything else. I could choose not to, but I'm putting myself at a significant disadvantage by not doing it. Eventually the disadvantage, combined with all my other disadvantages (late start in Eve, lack of real gaming skill, etc) will stack up to the point where I will no longer log in because I just fall further and further behind. I'm already not all that thrilled with skill injectors for the same reason. I'm poor in game. I'm fine with that. Part of my play style and character persona. But because of that, I'm already behind those that will grind out Incursions and buy a few injectors. PLEX also haven't been my favorite either, though I will admit I take advantage of selling PLEX. I have more money in life than time , so spending a small portion of my RL times earning to keep my purse in the black, works for me. But at the same time, It has diminished the game for me. I no longer feel the sting of losing a ship. I can replace just about anything I lose (even my T3s) with 10 minutes of 'real life' work time. Now I do see how PLEX has keep more people in game, as people like me will sell PLEX to people that play more, and they in turn get to stay in the game for 'free'. So PLEX was a net gain for everyone. CCP and players. I just fail to see the upside to this...at all.
Circumstantial Evidence 285	Posted - 2016.04.11 18:35:33 - [1068] - Quote CCP is working all-out to develop a major expansion that involves player activity at many levels (traders, miners, builders) This proposed feature rewards only one form of player activity. I got a "would you recommend EVE" survey recently, and lowered a high recommendation score I was thinking about based on the hard work CCP is doing to add value to the game, due to this proposed effort at player manipulation / logon motivation called an "opportunity," which rewards with skill points created by CCP, not other characters. This grasping at a small percent increase for a trivial logon activity, is embarrassing in light of the larger gains that can be achieved through expanded content and events. CCP does better at driving logon interest among long-term players with its nearly monthly updates, and creating engaging quarterly events like Operation Frostline / Gurista Detention, that can involve traders where unique loot is involved, and miners/builders where BPC's are involved. It doesn't take "free SP" to get players to log in and interact with these kinds of features.
Mizhara Del'thul Kyn'aldrnari 712	Posted - 2016.04.11 18:36:18 - [1069] - Quote You know, I don't think I fully explained why I left other MMOs with dailies in my previous posts. Let me remedy that, if you'll allow me to meander a bit. I tend to check out each WoW expansion, a month or two after the release. I played it pretty extensively from Vanilla through Wrath, but have since barely managed to stay in a month per expansion at most. Dailies were a huge part of that, because of the following: I 'had' to do them every day. Oh they got me to log in, but not because I wanted to have fun but because I wanted the progression it got me. More gold, more reputation, more rewards. Sure, this works fine short-term but sooner or later you hit that wall and you just can't do it anymore. So after exhausting content and no longer finding the will to do the dailies, you have that day when "Eh, I don't need to do the dailies today." and you skip logging in that day. Then maybe you log in the second day, but then you don't log in the third. And the fourth. Then you're suddenly not just losing interest in the game, but you're falling behind in the progression and the ghost of the Chores Before You makes logging in an even more daunting task which you'd rather just postpone until tomorrow. Or the day after. I'll play something else instead. You know, Stardew Valley is kind of fun. Another day passes, the desire to log in is less than ever and the chores waiting are even greater so you ignore them entirely and that blueberry harvest omg! Then you unsub and leave. You are being compared with WoW because it's apt. Not because we're expecting dragons and raid finders, but because we're seeing the potential start of something we bloody dread from that game. The list of chores waiting when you log in, that has to be done if you don't want to be punished with the absence of rewards. Don't do that to us. Don't try to tell us what we should do when we log in, if we want the carrot dangling up there. Just make the game fun to play and we'll log in. I promise. Now if you'll excuse me, I have goats that need milking. Or not. Maybe I'll just fish all day. Or go gamble in the casino. Or deliver fruit to all my friends. Whatever.
Toppar Wear SniggWaffe WAFFLES. 3	Posted - 2016.04.11 18:37:41 - [1070] - Quote I haven't posted on this forum in years (5+). You just made me post. Do not implement this. I don't want to grind stupid stuff. Don't tell what is worth doing. Weakly or monthly as a minimum, no dailies. This is so hopelessly stupid so at least rein in the stupidity. So many good things happening and then you pull this..
Vailen Sere Ixian Machines TOG - The Older Gamers Alliance 18	Posted - 2016.04.11 18:40:03 - [1071] - Quote CowQueen MMXII wrote: Seriously? What do i get for doing pvp kills? How should someone who is living in some high class wormhole do this stuff? What do I get for having logged in without any extra incentive for almost six years on a daily basis? If such a mechanic existed when I started playing, I probably wouldn't have started playing at all. Killmarks
Kismeteer GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 870	Posted - 2016.04.11 18:42:59 - [1072] - Quote I think daily tasks are dumb. And I think that giving essentially 5 extra hours of SP is over powered. Eventually, people will get burned out and won't even bother. I think dailies on Wow is what kill it for me. I'm currently in a war, killing an NPC would be very difficult for me right now. The reward of SP is over powered, but I think Aurum would be very good for this task. Hopefully, in easy to trade small packets so that people can sell them and skins are easier to get for everyone. Even if you are dead set on daily tasks, I don't want 'daily' tasks that are the same. I think it is a dumb idea. Maybe you mix it up a bit, people have to do something different on different days. Like shooting player characters or scrambling someone or using a certain module or mining some easy to get mineral or doing a level 1 mission etc. Best of luck on this idea. It's dumb. You should listen to feedback.
Krevnos Back Door Burglars The Otherworld 135	Posted - 2016.04.11 18:45:16 - [1073] - Quote I would like to see this change reversed immediately. Not partially, not modified. Gone!
Batolemaeus Free-Space-Ranger Northern Coalition. 227	Posted - 2016.04.11 18:51:55 - [1074] - Quote CCP Rise wrote: Small sidenote on activities: many of you mentioned PVP, remember that this is always problematic because the most effective way to PVP for rewards is just kill your own alt, which isn't very fun or interesting. But grinding NPC is interesting and engaging? At least if i murder a few alts each day, every day, for no reason other than your psychological trickery compelling me to do so because the bonus of doing so is immense, I get a killmail out of it. Your elaboration was completely unnecessary. It was clear from the start: You want to introduce backhanded psychological tricks to create a compulsion to log in. You want, in effect, to turn Eve into the kind of game people don't play because they want to, but are coerced into 'playing' to do chores because they will lose out on something otherwise. That kind of game design is why I stopped playing several games already, with no intention of ever going back. And the worst part is, the thing people are losing out on isn't even something positive. It's not engaging content, or having fun with friends. It's none of the things that make people genuinely want to log in and stay, or resubscribe after a hiatus. You're breaking one of Eve's selling points - that you can play this game at you own pace and as real life allows - because you are nostalgic for the old days of daily skill juggling and setting up alarm clocks to not miss out on SP? Are you kidding me? I'm too old for having developers try to go all mobile games on me. I hate that entire industry with a passion for their cold psychological manipulation, creating skinner boxes and compulsion loops and all the slimy things they do to remind me that they are not some enthusiastic developers with a fun game, but predators going after whales. And now you're here, peddling the same loathsome strategies to me. I will never log into GW2 ever again because I never want to see the daily grind ever again. Don't turn my Eve into such a game. If you're worried about people not logging in, work on informing people of the things that are going on in the game. Give players tools to drag people in more easily, to inform players that are not currently logged in of the things happening in that moment. Corps and alliances rely on third party tools to do so, why don't you work on reaching those who are not currently organised like that?
Terranid Meester Tactical Assault and Recon Unit 349	Posted - 2016.04.11 18:52:09 - [1075] - Quote Harkin Issier wrote: It undermines the entire "you don't grind for XP" idea that makes Eve different Indeed, not grinding for xp means that one of the original premises of eve is undermined. Say someone wants the SP but has sworn to defend the Blood Raiders and are stuck in Blood Raider space therefore their sandbox is broken. Its just an artificial mechanic, poorly thought out in regards to its place in eve online.
Rain6639 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3856	Posted - 2016.04.11 18:54:28 - [1076] - Quote Ria Nieyli wrote: CCP Rise wrote: Why Skillpoints? There's been a lot of feedback here that this kind of feature would be acceptable if the rewards were more monetary, either LP or ISK or something similar. There's a few reasons that doesn't really work and we feel pulled towards SP. I think the biggest one is that many people simply won't be motivated by LP or ISK, especially in the amounts we would be restricted to giving. SP simply has higher demand across more playstyles and player ages and that just makes it a more powerful incentive. Second big reason that we actually tried designs using item and ISK rewards and it quickly creates a lot of economic imbalances. Any time we are giving something away without much activity cost we are heavily sabotaging someone's gameplay. Whether it's because of devaluing LP, causing major inflation, or crashing item markets, it's all bad for you guys so we would rather avoid it. Well, with the advent of skill injectors skill points have a direct ISK price. 10,000 SP equals about 13,000,000 ISK at current injector prices. If you take diminishing returns in account, it's even higher. Currently I'm in the 50m-80m SP bracket, so accruing 30 days of daily SP rewards would mean that I've saved myself about 650m ISK by not buying someone's injector. You're still sabotaging someone's gameplay, namely people who provide injectors for the market. Moreover, people who can't log in for whatever reason would be disproportionally punished by not getting their daily rewards. For example, last year, I had no access to EVE for two and a half months. If this feature was present at the time, I would've lost about 750,000 SP by not logging in, even though my skill queue was still running during that period. This reward goes straight against a core tenet of the game and will alienate people and cause burnout. If offering something else than SP means that people would be uninterested in daily rewards, it just means that daily rewards really have no place in this game. an injector's worth of SP every two weeks is good.
Vailen Sere Ixian Machines TOG - The Older Gamers Alliance 18	Posted - 2016.04.11 18:59:09 - [1077] - Quote The big reason I am pro on this is it gets newbros in ships faster. Most of this game involves revolving around chores. Setting up for fleets is chore work (and if you haven't killed rats in a fleet sitting on a gate...) Mining is chorework. Salvaging is chore work. indy? job queues? chore work. It's a minor reward for being online, in game. It's not a game changer, and you can probably do it in your routine without thinking about it. One question I didn't see is, If your in a fleet and there are gate rats and you don't get the killing blow on them, do you get credit?
Tipa Riot Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 2378	Posted - 2016.04.11 18:59:49 - [1078] - Quote Thanks for posting some more about the reasoning behind ... but nothing has changed. You want to introduce a reward for logging in every day which can't be ignored without feeling uncomfortable (the whole purpose of the thing). With the "daily" skill queue update I could perfectly time and prepare for vacations or a couple of days off without losing skill points. With your daily quest, I have to login every single day at the same time +-2 hours, to avoid losing skill points. Sorry, but this is a worse deal than the skill queue update, where I actually had options. You always say, features which are not giving a meaningful choice should be given the axe, now you introduce exactly one of those ... ... and yes, you are lazy, I can't believe this is the only idea in the world how to increase the number of login session per player. Why daily? It was not daily before! I'm my own NPC alt.
Jinrai Tremaine Meanwhile Elsewhere... 97	Posted - 2016.04.11 19:02:57 - [1079] - Quote The underlying problem with this idea (IMO) is that SP is too valuable a resource to pass up. That means that the moment it's offered as a reward everyone is going to feel obligated to collect it. If players are already killing a rat a day with each of their characters then that's great for them, but for everyone else it's going to lead to either wasting time doing something you don't enjoy because the reward is too good to skip or frustration that you can't get the reward every day (because your RL commitments don't let you play daily, for example) and you're falling behind those who can. In either case that's likely to lead to burnout from repeatedly doing things you don't actually enjoy (in the game you choose to play in your free time for fun) or just quitting in annoyance at how the game is demonstrably favouring other players. Speaking for myself, I'm honestly considering quitting over this, because I know exactly how it'll go for me; I'll feel obligated to log in and kill a rat on each of my 42 characters because otherwise I'll feel that I'm missing out/falling behind, but as that's likely to take over an hour of just switching accounts repeatedly every day I'm going to get frustrated and burn out and stop playing as a result. For anyone who's going to suggest the solution is to not have 42 characters, I've already got my own niche multibox mining which actually uses all 14 of those accounts on a daily basis. But it doesn't involve many NPC kills and certainly doesn't get the 2 extra alts on each account any kills either, so I'd be missing out on at least 280k SP per day if I just do what I actually enjoy, and having that wasted opportunity running through my head would also not be something I enjoy, so it seems like for me the only winning move would be not to play at all.
Nevyn Auscent Broke Sauce 3148	Posted - 2016.04.11 19:04:07 - [1080] - Quote CCP Rise wrote: Why Skillpoints? There's been a lot of feedback here that this kind of feature would be acceptable if the rewards were more monetary, either LP or ISK or something similar. There's a few reasons that doesn't really work and we feel pulled towards SP. I think the biggest one is that many people simply won't be motivated by LP or ISK, especially in the amounts we would be restricted to giving. SP simply has higher demand across more playstyles and player ages and that just makes it a more powerful incentive. Second big reason that we actually tried designs using item and ISK rewards and it quickly creates a lot of economic imbalances. Any time we are giving something away without much activity cost we are heavily sabotaging someone's gameplay. Whether it's because of devaluing LP, causing major inflation, or crashing item markets, it's all bad for you guys so we would rather avoid it. While reasoning is appreciated, it's still a change that introduces a grind for SP feature to EVE, which devalues the most unique feature about EVE and why most of us love EVE so much. EVE currently appeals to mature players specifically because there isn't a need to be online daily, the skill queue was not a daily incentive, it was a chore and was rightly recognised as such and changed eventually when the tech became available, or so we were told in the Dev blogs about it at the time. If you could recognise then that 'daily' activity simply to get SP was bad, then surely you can recognise that daily quests for bonus SP are even worse.
Blavish Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective 9	Posted - 2016.04.11 19:04:56 - [1081] - Quote Not one for writing long comments etc but this seems like a really bad idea.
Erihn Sabrovich Bionesis Technologies 3	Posted - 2016.04.11 19:11:42 - [1082] - Quote I see many OLDER players (which already have tons of SP as they play for a long time) complain about that system saying "it removes the link between age and SP"... There is a way to fix that... Make the SP gained vary with the player current SP total, a little like what you see for skill injectors. That way, older players with tons of SP ( 150 000 000 SP and more for example) won't get much from that "daily" (for example 100 SP which will be neglectible in comparison to what they already earn) and new players get the full 10000 SP (or even more as a boost for new players and a way to help them getting hooked to the game).
Ria Nieyli 43320	Posted - 2016.04.11 19:16:53 - [1083] - Quote Erihn Sabrovich wrote: I see many OLDER players (which already have tons of SP as they play for a long time) complain about that system saying "it removes the link between age and SP"... There is a way to fix that... Make the SP gained vary with the player current SP total, a little like what you see for skill injectors. That way, older players with tons of SP ( 150 000 000 SP and more for example) won't get much from that "daily" (for example 100 SP which will be neglectible in comparison to what they already earn) and new players get the full 10000 SP (or even more as a boost for new players and a way to help them getting hooked to the game). Give me a valid reason to get less out of an injector than someone who has played for 1 month. You can't. Your idea is bad and you should feel bad. "slang" is shortened language for "shortened language"
Erihn Sabrovich 3	Posted - 2016.04.11 19:22:09 - [1084] - Quote Ria Nieyli wrote: Give me a valid reason to get less out of an injector than someone who has played for 1 month. You can't. Your idea is bad and you should feel bad. From Skill injector "info box" Quote: This item can be activated in a station to grant the user unallocated skill points. Skill injectors are consumed immediately once activated. The amount of skill points granted depends on the total skill points (including unallocated skill points) the using character possesses, according to the following scale: Characters with less than 5,000,000 skill points will receive 500,000 unallocated skill points. Characters with between 5,000,000 and 50,000,000 skill points will receive 400,000 unallocated skill points. Characters with between 50,000,000 and 80,000,000 skill points will receive 300,000 unallocated skill points. Characters with more than 80,000,000 skill points will receive 150,000 unallocated skill points. Skill Injectors are created using a Skill Extractor. Skill injector already give less SP to players with higher SP levels...
Ria Nieyli 43323	Posted - 2016.04.11 19:28:54 - [1085] - Quote Yes, but just because I've been playing longer, does not mean I should be treated like a second class citizen. Injectors cost the same for me as they do for everyone else, why should I receive less benefit for my money? "slang" is shortened language for "shortened language"
Nevyn Auscent Broke Sauce 3149	Posted - 2016.04.11 19:30:13 - [1086] - Quote Erihn Sabrovich wrote: Skill injector already give less SP to players with higher SP levels... The actual reason your idea is bad is because CCP have much better tools to address new player issues. They have increased starting skills so that people start with decent amounts of support skills. They can give SP through the Opportunities system instead, which is a once off award the very first time you do something, which doesn't require doing it every single day but can instead do it at your leisure. Daily login awards don't actually help the new player who sits down for six hours on day one to play, who is the only sort of new player who actually has SP issues, since every other sort of new player can actually train the skills they need while they are logged out between days. So, the system is not really helpful to new players, and again, introduces a 'grind for SP' quest which is specifically against EVE's passive SP gain system.
Lugh Crow-Slave 1875	Posted - 2016.04.11 19:36:37 - [1087] - Quote CCP Rise wrote: .... except back with the 24 hr queue i could still plan to set it up so i could log in when i had time it was not a hard set 22 hrs i could set it up to be month or even bi month this is EVERY day and it does punish those who can not log in every day how about make them build so every day 1 rat adds to your counter but the counter never goes over 30 so say you cant log in for half a month when you do log in your counter is at 15/30 so you can go and kill 15 rats but if you stay logged off for a year its only 30/30 this still incentives logging on but its much more free for the player to do it Citadel worm hole tax
Erihn Sabrovich 3	Posted - 2016.04.11 19:38:19 - [1088] - Quote Ria Nieyli wrote: Yes, but just because I've been playing longer, does not mean I should be treated like a second class citizen. Injectors cost the same for me as they do for everyone else, why should I receive less benefit for my money? Well, it's a FACT, I didn't decide that rule, CCP did... I just suggested to use decreasing return from dailies when you've higher SP level which would result as - a way to make newer player connect more (older players which are still playing don't want to change their playing behaviour anyway) - a way to boost newer players, the SP gap is becoming too big and may turn off some newer players... and it's increasing... This will give them some motivation to play more, invest time in their character (and get hooked to EVE) - for older characters, doing dailies or not won't be that much important... Those who will do it will have a very minimal return (better than none at all) but it won't really penalize those who don't want to do them... - as the return is decreasing when your SP increase, it'll keep some link between character age and SP (higher SP levels will stay require older characters) As a matter of fact, it'd be far more correct to older character than the injector return which is ALREADY IN GAME
Ria Nieyli 43326	Posted - 2016.04.11 19:45:13 - [1089] - Quote Erihn Sabrovich wrote: Well, it's a FACT, I didn't decide that rule, CCP did... I just suggested to use decreasing return from dailies when you've higher SP level which would result as - a way to make newer player connect more (older players which are still playing don't want to change their playing behaviour anyway) - a way to boost newer players, the SP gap is becoming too big and may turn off some newer players... and it's increasing... This will give them some motivation to play more, invest time in their character (and get hooked to EVE) - for older characters, doing dailies or not won't be that much important... Those who will do it will have a very minimal return (better than none at all) but it won't really penalize those who don't want to do them... - as the return is decreasing when your SP increase, it'll keep some link between character age and SP (higher SP levels will stay require older characters) As a matter of fact, it'd be far more correct to older character than the injector return which is ALREADY IN GAME What that would accomplish is make people who have actually played longer and have already invested in the game feel like they're being ripped off. Back when I started, everyone had much more SP and ISK and connections and things than me. It didn't stop me from playing and progressing to where I am now. And there are still people that have more of the aforementioned things than me, but it won't stop me from keeping on. Having to log on every day or miss out on progression, on the other hand will. And I'm not alone in this. "slang" is shortened language for "shortened language"
Necharo Rackham The Red Circle Inc. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork 69	Posted - 2016.04.11 19:46:28 - [1090] - Quote Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: how about make them build so every day 1 rat adds to your counter but the counter never goes over 30 so say you cant log in for half a month when you do log in your counter is at 15/30 so you can go and kill 15 rats but if you stay logged off for a year its only 30/30 this still incentives logging on but its much more free for the player to do it If this has to be implemented, then I'd rather go with something along the lines above. Especially as the goal is to try and encourage people to log in regularly (rather than daily). I would also be in favor of - say - only making it effective for players with under 10M SP (that's roughly 6 months in the game and it should be enough time for someone to find their feet - if they aren't logging in regularly at that point you've either already lost them, their corp situation isn't that interesting or they are not particularly inclined to log in regularly. To my mind this whole thing sounds rather manipulative and by extension disrespectful to your customer base.
Lugh Crow-Slave 1875	Posted - 2016.04.11 19:49:22 - [1091] - Quote Necharo Rackham wrote: Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: how about make them build so every day 1 rat adds to your counter but the counter never goes over 30 so say you cant log in for half a month when you do log in your counter is at 15/30 so you can go and kill 15 rats but if you stay logged off for a year its only 30/30 this still incentives logging on but its much more free for the player to do it If this has to be implemented, then I'd rather go with something along the lines above. Especially as the goal is to try and encourage people to log in regularly (rather than daily). I would also be in favor of - say - only making it effective for players with under 10M SP (that's roughly 6 months in the game and it should be enough time for someone to find their feet - if they aren't logging in regularly at that point you've either already lost them, their corp situation isn't that interesting or they are not particularly inclined to log in regularly. To my mind this whole thing sounds rather manipulative and by extension disrespectful to your customer base. the 10m thing would not work as CCP said the idea is supposed to affect all players and has nothing to do with NPE :/ but glad some one else sees the idea as reasonable Citadel worm hole tax
Jethen Rama KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 20	Posted - 2016.04.11 19:55:38 - [1092] - Quote The problem is why you did it. I can imagine the meeting: Random Dev: "Boss, we noticed that people who log in every day have 66.6% higher chance of subscribing" Boss: "Let's make them all log in at least once a day so that more people pay" This is insane. Yes, people who log in a lot will pay for the game. It is not because they log in, it's because they LIKE IT. And as the result of liking it they both log in frequently and pay. You want people to log in and pay for the game - make it more likable, don't bribe players with SP just to raise some meaningless statistic.
Viserys Anstian Wayward Chickens 23	Posted - 2016.04.11 20:00:00 - [1093] - Quote Mizhara Del'thul wrote: You know, I don't think I fully explained why I left other MMOs with dailies in my previous posts. Let me remedy that, if you'll allow me to meander a bit. I tend to check out each WoW expansion, a month or two after the release. I played it pretty extensively from Vanilla through Wrath, but have since barely managed to stay in a month per expansion at most. Dailies were a huge part of that, because of the following: I 'had' to do them every day. Oh they got me to log in, but not because I wanted to have fun but because I wanted the progression it got me. More gold, more reputation, more rewards. Sure, this works fine short-term but sooner or later you hit that wall and you just can't do it anymore. So after exhausting content and no longer finding the will to do the dailies, you have that day when "Eh, I don't need to do the dailies today." and you skip logging in that day. Exactly. I play WoW the same way now. 2-3 months to see the expansion, then I'm usually gone. Grinding dailies, grinding LFR raids to get gear to go on the real raids, to get gear to do heroic and mythic....OMG brain is bleeding. So for people like me, with maybe 1-2 hours a day to play (I used to play 5-6 hours a day, but family and life changed my priorities), feeling obligated to knock out 'dailies' before going onto the content I wanted to see, just ruined the game for me. Again, I know they were 'optional', but they always felt mandatory else I'd get left behind. So I left WoW behind because I couldn't keep up. I was never expecting with my limited play time to be able to stay in the full progression guilds, but having to spend my limit play time on dailies, ruined it for me. I hope CCP reconsiders this.
Lugh Crow-Slave 1875	Posted - 2016.04.11 20:02:39 - [1094] - Quote Jethen Rama wrote: The problem is why you did it. I can imagine the meeting: Random Dev: "Boss, we noticed that people who log in every day have 66.6% higher chance of subscribing" Boss: "Let's make them all log in at least once a day so that more people pay" This is insane. Yes, people who log in a lot will pay for the game. It is not because they log in, it's because they LIKE IT. And as the result of liking it they both log in frequently and pay. You want people to log in and pay for the game - make it more likable, don't bribe players with SP just to raise some meaningless statistic. this is why i feel Quote: make them build so every day 1 rat adds to your counter but the counter never goes over 30 so say you cant log in for half a month when you do log in your counter is at 15/30 so you can go and kill 15 rats but if you stay logged off for a year its only 30/30 this still incentives logging on but its much more free for the player to do it would be a nice middle ground as its no where near as intrusive Citadel worm hole tax
Ligraph Metallurgy Incorporated 9	Posted - 2016.04.11 20:08:42 - [1095] - Quote Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: how about make them build so every day 1 rat adds to your counter but the counter never goes over 30 so say you cant log in for half a month when you do log in your counter is at 15/30 so you can go and kill 15 rats but if you stay logged off for a year its only 30/30 this still incentives logging on but its much more free for the player to do it this would be a way to adapt dailies to fit your game rather than just copy past and jam it in I like this. Gives a reward for activity without players "losing" anything if they can't log in for a few days. Also, there should be counters and rewards for PvP (aggression/weapon timer maybe), and industry (start PI cycle, use BP, maybe complete contract or sell stuff). Maybe exploration as well (hack a can). Fuzzy cloaking Wormhole Stabilizer citadels Cloaky Fleet Transport
Lugh Crow-Slave 1875	Posted - 2016.04.11 20:11:26 - [1096] - Quote Ligraph wrote: Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: how about make them build so every day 1 rat adds to your counter but the counter never goes over 30 so say you cant log in for half a month when you do log in your counter is at 15/30 so you can go and kill 15 rats but if you stay logged off for a year its only 30/30 this still incentives logging on but its much more free for the player to do it this would be a way to adapt dailies to fit your game rather than just copy past and jam it in I like this. Gives a reward for activity without players "losing" anything if they can't log in for a few days. Also, there should be counters and rewards for PvP (aggression/weapon timer maybe), and industry (start PI cycle, use BP, maybe complete contract or sell stuff). Maybe exploration as well (hack a can). to be honest if it is just to get ppl in the game it should be the easiest damn thing possible as so it does not take anymore time than it needs keeping players free to do what they want Citadel worm hole tax
Ligraph Metallurgy Incorporated 9	Posted - 2016.04.11 20:13:11 - [1097] - Quote Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Ligraph wrote: Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: how about make them build so every day 1 rat adds to your counter but the counter never goes over 30 so say you cant log in for half a month when you do log in your counter is at 15/30 so you can go and kill 15 rats but if you stay logged off for a year its only 30/30 this still incentives logging on but its much more free for the player to do it this would be a way to adapt dailies to fit your game rather than just copy past and jam it in I like this. Gives a reward for activity without players "losing" anything if they can't log in for a few days. Also, there should be counters and rewards for PvP (aggression/weapon timer maybe), and industry (start PI cycle, use BP, maybe complete contract or sell stuff). Maybe exploration as well (hack a can). to be honest if it is just to get ppl in the game it should be the easiest damn thing possible as so it does not take anymore time than it needs keeping players free to do what they want True. But suppose all someone does is mining and industry. Or PvP... Fuzzy cloaking Wormhole Stabilizer citadels Cloaky Fleet Transport
Sanji Taisho Mezzanine Inc 0	Posted - 2016.04.11 20:14:16 - [1098] - Quote tldr
Lugh Crow-Slave 1875	Posted - 2016.04.11 20:16:10 - [1099] - Quote Ligraph wrote: Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Ligraph wrote: Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: how about make them build so every day 1 rat adds to your counter but the counter never goes over 30 so say you cant log in for half a month when you do log in your counter is at 15/30 so you can go and kill 15 rats but if you stay logged off for a year its only 30/30 this still incentives logging on but its much more free for the player to do it this would be a way to adapt dailies to fit your game rather than just copy past and jam it in I like this. Gives a reward for activity without players "losing" anything if they can't log in for a few days. Also, there should be counters and rewards for PvP (aggression/weapon timer maybe), and industry (start PI cycle, use BP, maybe complete contract or sell stuff). Maybe exploration as well (hack a can). to be honest if it is just to get ppl in the game it should be the easiest damn thing possible as so it does not take anymore time than it needs keeping players free to do what they want True. But suppose all someone does is mining and industry. Or PvP... then it takes about 60s to go to a belt and pop a frigate what i'm saying is its very ez to do and takes little time (unless what you were saying was they could do x or and not x and y if thats the case then yes i find that better) Citadel worm hole tax
Gary Webb The Walking Deads Limited Expectations 8	Posted - 2016.04.11 20:16:36 - [1100] - Quote i love this idea. Its great for contrant generation. I'd like to see in the future, larger sp awards by sec status, therefor increasing the flow of players venturing into low and null for the promise of extra SP, thus creating a target rich environment! I think anything that helps players train to their goals faster is only going to make them log in more, spend more $$ (which im sure is part of CCP's motive) and best of all UNDOCK MORE! i saw someone mention in an earlier post a different reward for veterans. This i think would be a good idea as there does come a point where sp loses its value to a player. Be it a new booster that allows certIan items to be fit to ships for a short amount of time (cov ops cloak on a battleship) or something like that! just spit balling here. When you get to where I am in game, youre right in that zone where youre less inclined to log in every day as your queue is training that 57 day skill so you know you cant do anyhting new yet. I hope ccp expands on this. injectors have made things really interesting in eve again and I think this stands to do it even more. A lot of people are acting like this is going to train race x battleship to 5 overnight. this is not that. i think this is going to make for some amazingly fun fights
Lugh Crow-Slave 1875	Posted - 2016.04.11 20:21:28 - [1101] - Quote Gary Webb wrote: i love this idea. Its great for contrant generation. I'd like to see in the future, larger sp awards by sec status, therefor increasing the flow of players venturing into low and null for the promise of extra SP, thus creating a target rich environment! I think anything that helps players train to their goals faster is only going to make them log in more, spend more $$ (which im sure is part of CCP's motive) and best of all UNDOCK MORE! i saw someone mention in an earlier post a different reward for veterans. This i think would be a good idea as there does come a point where sp loses its value to a player. Be it a new booster that allows certIan items to be fit to ships for a short amount of time (cov ops cloak on a battleship) or something like that! just spit balling here. When you get to where I am in game, youre right in that zone where youre less inclined to log in every day as your queue is training that 57 day skill so you know you cant do anyhting new yet. I hope ccp expands on this. injectors have made things really interesting in eve again and I think this stands to do it even more. A lot of people are acting like this is going to train race x battleship to 5 overnight. this is not that. i think this is going to make for some amazingly fun fights O.o you are joking right? just because i had work one day you can fit a cov ops to your BB Citadel worm hole tax
Ligraph Metallurgy Incorporated 9	Posted - 2016.04.11 20:22:31 - [1102] - Quote Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Ligraph wrote: Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Ligraph wrote: Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: how about make them build so every day 1 rat adds to your counter but the counter never goes over 30 so say you cant log in for half a month when you do log in your counter is at 15/30 so you can go and kill 15 rats but if you stay logged off for a year its only 30/30 this still incentives logging on but its much more free for the player to do it this would be a way to adapt dailies to fit your game rather than just copy past and jam it in I like this. Gives a reward for activity without players "losing" anything if they can't log in for a few days. Also, there should be counters and rewards for PvP (aggression/weapon timer maybe), and industry (start PI cycle, use BP, maybe complete contract or sell stuff). Maybe exploration as well (hack a can). to be honest if it is just to get ppl in the game it should be the easiest damn thing possible as so it does not take anymore time than it needs keeping players free to do what they want True. But suppose all someone does is mining and industry. Or PvP... then it takes about 60s to go to a belt and pop a frigate what i'm saying is its very ez to do and takes little time (unless what you were saying was they could do x or and not x and y if thats the case then yes i find that better) Well I meant x and y, but x or y is probably better. Fuzzy cloaking Wormhole Stabilizer citadels Cloaky Fleet Transport
beakerax Pator Tech School 266	Posted - 2016.04.11 20:28:48 - [1103] - Quote CCP Rise wrote: So this leads us to where we are now, attempting to find ways to create more logins that also don't feel like such a punishment as the skill queue limitations did. How are dailies less punishing? With the old skillqueue, or even before the skillqueue, if you were going away for a bit or you didn't have time to play, you could put in a long skill and miss nothing.
Lugh Crow-Slave 1875	Posted - 2016.04.11 20:31:38 - [1104] - Quote Ligraph wrote: Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Ligraph wrote: how about make them build so every day 1 rat adds to your counter but the counter never goes over 30 so say you cant log in for half a month when you do log in your counter is at 15/30 so you can go and kill 15 rats but if you stay logged off for a year its only 30/30 this still incentives logging on but its much more free for the player to do it this would be a way to adapt dailies to fit your game rather than just copy past and jam it in ..... Well I meant x and y, but x or y is probably better. aye with and it takes longer and everyone has to do something they would not normaly with or people can chose what they want to do to get the SP Citadel worm hole tax
CBrooksC CB Trading 2	Posted - 2016.04.11 20:32:39 - [1105] - Quote CCP Rise wrote: words Solution. You can only collect the daily rewards if you have less than 5,500,000 million skill points on that character. cb
Gary Webb The Walking Deads Limited Expectations 8	Posted - 2016.04.11 20:34:11 - [1106] - Quote Just another thought, All the people complaining about feeling ripped off seem to forget that while CCP does care about us as players and their community, they are a business that needs to pay employees and have a marketable product that appeals to a larger base of players. far fewer people think "Thats the game for me!" when they hear stuff like "learning curve, HA! More like learning cliff!". CCP has to think about their bottom line as well as we, the players. Its super easy to get burnt out on running the same level 4 in the same raven after 3 months of doing it over and over. Being able to get into that Rattlesnake a bit faster, get to a point where you feel confident enought to move to null or WH space faster is only going to improve space for all of us. The bittervets out there need to realize there is still loads of content only they can handle such as these new cazy drifters ect. You guys need to change with the times. a few million free SP a year is not going to kill anyone. Its just going to embolded people to expand outwards from starting systems and fly into your waiting jaws. I personally would love to see more SP earning opportunities in game. Eventually necessity will dictate that more new and exciting content (ships, new space, ect) will have to be added by CCP for the older players. I cant wait. [CCP give us more ships!]
Gary Webb The Walking Deads Limited Expectations 8	Posted - 2016.04.11 20:36:24 - [1107] - Quote Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Gary Webb wrote: i love this idea. Its great for contrant generation. I'd like to see in the future, larger sp awards by sec status, therefor increasing the flow of players venturing into low and null for the promise of extra SP, thus creating a target rich environment! I think anything that helps players train to their goals faster is only going to make them log in more, spend more $$ (which im sure is part of CCP's motive) and best of all UNDOCK MORE! i saw someone mention in an earlier post a different reward for veterans. This i think would be a good idea as there does come a point where sp loses its value to a player. Be it a new booster that allows certIan items to be fit to ships for a short amount of time (cov ops cloak on a battleship) or something like that! just spit balling here. When you get to where I am in game, youre right in that zone where youre less inclined to log in every day as your queue is training that 57 day skill so you know you cant do anyhting new yet. I hope ccp expands on this. injectors have made things really interesting in eve again and I think this stands to do it even more. A lot of people are acting like this is going to train race x battleship to 5 overnight. this is not that. i think this is going to make for some amazingly fun fights O.o you are joking right? just because i had work one day you can fit a cov ops to your BB not 100% serious, extreme example. couldnt think of anyhting a super L33t vet would find a satisfying reward
Jeremiah Saken The Fall of Leviathan 523	Posted - 2016.04.11 20:37:10 - [1108] - Quote CCP Rise wrote: We want you to be able to collect this reward during a lunch break or a 10 minute period where your kids are in timeout but also want to make sure there's some real gameplay associated with it. CCP Rise wrote: We didn't like the experience around being punished for not logging in to update your queue, but also knew that some of those logins might be leading to meaningful gameplay and we shouldn't lightly let go of them. Decide Rise. You can't have cookie and eat cookie. You think my 10 minute period will lead to something meaningful? Why do you think sunday is a peak in EvE? You target wrong audience. Try 10-20 yold, oh wait you do... Ps. we need a mounts, I meant SKINs for 30 consecutive dailies (that's how you do dailies), Ps. 2 you have no idea what cancer you want to bring to EvE. "(...) I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas (...)" "Here in the garden of the arcane delights dark shadows overwhelm us and and we become blind..."
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 2734	Posted - 2016.04.11 20:37:47 - [1109] - Quote beakerax wrote: CCP Rise wrote: So this leads us to where we are now, attempting to find ways to create more logins that also don't feel like such a punishment as the skill queue limitations did. How are dailies less punishing? With the old skillqueue, or even before the skillqueue, if you were going away for a bit or you didn't have time to play, you could put in a long skill and miss nothing. Dailies are not punishing. You get the reward for the one you do and that's where it ends. You don't lose anything for not logging. The daily idea is wrong for something completely different. The fact that people could not get 100% of the potential benefit should not be an issue for anyone. The player base here is just full of hypocrisy and feel 100% entitled to get 100% return of any opportunity if it involve SP. If people didn't feel entitled to getting it all, they would not be unhappy about potentially missing some because they work. They FEEL penalized because they think they SHOULD get it all when it reality, they would be getting 100% of the reward they deserve by fulfilling the requirement as many time as they can. Start feeling penalized when they remove stuff from you if you don't do something, not when they don't give you something if you didn't do the required action.
Lugh Crow-Slave 1875	Posted - 2016.04.11 20:37:48 - [1110] - Quote CBrooksC wrote: CCP Rise wrote: words Solution. You can only collect the daily rewards if you have less than 5,500,000 million skill points on that character. cb did you miss the part of it having nothing to do with new players? Citadel worm hole tax
Erihn Sabrovich 3	Posted - 2016.04.11 20:38:22 - [1111] - Quote Ria Nieyli wrote: What that would accomplish is make people who have actually played longer and have already invested in the game feel like they're being ripped off. Back when I started, everyone had much more SP and ISK and connections and things than me. It didn't stop me from playing and progressing to where I am now. And there are still people that have more of the aforementioned things than me, but it won't stop me from keeping on. Having to log on every day or miss out on progression, on the other hand will. And I'm not alone in this. Let's face it, unless you started back when EVE was released, you'd be a victim of the ~SP gap~. And that SP gap doesn't really stop you from accomplishing things, if you're actually interested in playing the game. EVE is not for everyone, it's a long-term hobby. EVE online exists for 12 years now... You get about 20M SP per year... (well, may be more thanks to well planned remap/implants but let's keep it to a rounded number for simplicity) Lets take 3 players : - a new player - a middle aged (6 years old) - an old player and a starting boost of 20% (less than planned by CCP) Y+1 : 20M/140M/260M vs 24M/142M/260M an huge rip off of 2M (1.666%) between new and middle or middle and old and 4M between new and old (1.66% again) Y+5 : 100M/220M/340M vs 115M/227M/340M... again a huge rip off : new-middle : 7.14%, middle-old : 6.2%, new-old : 6.66% It'll be a 15% increase of SP over 5 years for a new player (less than 7% for a middle aged) for a difference decrease of less than 1.5% per year... This will clearly ruin the game for older players !!! It looks more like you are like a spoiled brat who want to keeps it's toys for himself... More SP means access to more ships, more weapons, more viable industry choices, ... The skill gap is way too big as it is now... We are talking about a gap so big that new players will have to play for 12 fuill years to reach the situation where they have HALF of the skill points of older players... This is unreasonnable and undefendable... When you started, you probably only needed something like 2-3 years to do a similar catch-up...
Lugh Crow-Slave 1875	Posted - 2016.04.11 20:40:29 - [1112] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: beakerax wrote: CCP Rise wrote: So this leads us to where we are now, attempting to find ways to create more logins that also don't feel like such a punishment as the skill queue limitations did. How are dailies less punishing? With the old skillqueue, or even before the skillqueue, if you were going away for a bit or you didn't have time to play, you could put in a long skill and miss nothing. Dailies are not punishing. You get the reward for the one you do and that's where it ends. You don't lose anything for not logging. The daily idea is wrong for something completely different. The fact that people could not get 100% of the potential benefit should not be an issue for anyone. The player base here is just full of hypocrisy and feel 100% entitled to get 100% return of any opportunity if it involve SP. If people didn't feel entitled to getting it all, they would not be unhappy about potentially missing some because they work. They FEEL penalized because they think they SHOULD get it all when it reality, they would be getting 100% of the reward they deserve by fulfilling the requirement as many time as they can. Start feeling penalized when they remove stuff from you if you don't do something, not when they don't give you something if you didn't do the required action. it is a penalty the max sp gaind per day is going up by 10k so if i cant log in i loss 10k sp just like if i sell something i bought for 1M for 2M but i could have sold it for 3M i lost 1M i did not gain 1M Citadel worm hole tax
beakerax Pator Tech School 266	Posted - 2016.04.11 20:45:36 - [1113] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: You get the reward for the one you do and that's where it ends. You don't lose anything for not logging. And you get a nice sp reward for having a skill in training rather than having no skill in training. You don't lose anything with an empty skill queue. Do you see why this argument is asinine?
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 2734	Posted - 2016.04.11 20:47:28 - [1114] - Quote Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Frostys Virpio wrote: beakerax wrote: CCP Rise wrote: So this leads us to where we are now, attempting to find ways to create more logins that also don't feel like such a punishment as the skill queue limitations did. How are dailies less punishing? With the old skillqueue, or even before the skillqueue, if you were going away for a bit or you didn't have time to play, you could put in a long skill and miss nothing. Dailies are not punishing. You get the reward for the one you do and that's where it ends. You don't lose anything for not logging. The daily idea is wrong for something completely different. The fact that people could not get 100% of the potential benefit should not be an issue for anyone. The player base here is just full of hypocrisy and feel 100% entitled to get 100% return of any opportunity if it involve SP. If people didn't feel entitled to getting it all, they would not be unhappy about potentially missing some because they work. They FEEL penalized because they think they SHOULD get it all when it reality, they would be getting 100% of the reward they deserve by fulfilling the requirement as many time as they can. Start feeling penalized when they remove stuff from you if you don't do something, not when they don't give you something if you didn't do the required action. it is a penalty the max sp gaind per day is going up by 10k so if i cant log in i loss 10k sp just like if i sell something i bought for 1M for 2M but i could have sold it for 3M i lost 1M i did not gain 1M With this more than likely soon to be implemented system, you are not entitled to max SP for just having a training queue active. You will be granted X SP/hours for the sub with a potential bonus if you put in the meaningless time to do a meaningless task. It's stupid but still not a penalty. They are not removing any possibility from you because you don't do their meaningless task, you just fail to get a bonus. This is not a penalty.
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 2734	Posted - 2016.04.11 20:48:41 - [1115] - Quote beakerax wrote: Frostys Virpio wrote: You get the reward for the one you do and that's where it ends. You don't lose anything for not logging. And you get a nice sp reward for having a skill in training rather than having no skill in training. You don't lose anything with an empty skill queue. Do you see why this argument is asinine? Character with no active queue or no skill in an active queue are not penalized, they get exactly what they should. You think you are penalized because you fell entitled to those SP.
Nivin Sajjad Halal Gunnery Death by Degrees 5	Posted - 2016.04.11 20:51:29 - [1116] - Quote This idea is absolutely terrible, but if you are dead set on implementing it, then I have some suggestions on how to make it slightly less terrible. First things first though, here's just why this is so terrible. Players are primed to seek rewards in games. You dangle a worthwhile reward like SP in front of their faces, and players will chase after it. On the other hand, players also hate being forced to perform unengaging repetitive tasks just to get at a reward. If people didn't find current PVE so mind numbing then afktar netflix ticks wouldn't even be a thing. But instead of improving on PVE and making it a more engaging activity in and of itself, you're forcing players to just do more old unfun content. You are literally welding good payoff to bad gameplay, and few things could breed resentment and burnout faster. Combine this with the fact that players can have multiple accounts, filled with multiple characters, many of whom don't even do combat of any kind or have access to easily killable rats at their location, and you've ended up creating a perverse system that literally pits future enjoyment (more SP down the line that can be used or sold) against present enjoyment (freedom to do/not do whatever I want as it suits me) and are forcing players to choose. Assuming just 1 account and easily killable rats nearby for all your toons. What is the choice placed in front of you for getting the most out of your dailies? It's either spend 1 account x 3 character slots x 5 minutes x 365 days a year on unfulfilling busywork, or miss out on a combined 11 MILLION SP A YEAR being free of this nonsense. 90 hours a year of drudgery, or 11 million missed SP? That's the choices you're presenting to players per account, and it's an incredibly crappy thing to do. But okay, we get it. You want to add dailies, and come any amount of player outrage or fatigued unsubs, nothing will stop you. Well here's at least some tips to make it slightly better. 1) Make the event actually a daily, instead of a 22 hourly. Tie the cooldown to system date rather than time delay. The first lets players log in for their daily carrot so long as they have free time during any point of the day, while the second locks players into a 2 hour window at exactly the same time each day where they must log in or lose their bonus. I hope you can see which one is less user friendly. 2) Let acquisition of the daily bonus be as painless as possible for all character types. Anything less is going to feel like CCP is punishing specific styles of play that doesn't involve repeatedly shooting rats within arm's reach during every day of the year. Seeing as CCP doesn't want to encourage "leveling up your Raven" as the epitome of sandbox play, then tying the bonus to repetitive rat killing is daft. 3) The goal is to get players to log in, not to log in once per character. Keep in mind that this is EVE and people will try to min/max until they burn themselves out, so bake burnout limiters into your design from the get go. Make the daily bonus claimable once per account, rather than once per character. Players have the flexibility to choose where the bonus goes, without feeling compelled to keep doing the same grind over and over again quite as much. 4) Creature events around the bonus that are conductive of sandbox play and interaction, rather than try to trick players towards more social engagement and immersion by handing them a carrot that's most easily reached by solo carebearing in highsec. So here's what I propose. Make a permanent Frostline like spawn that drops Inferno Neural Accelerant tokens in lowsec and Synthetic Neural Accelerant elsewhere. These tokens can be used remotely just like skill injectors, and will add 8000 or 10000 SP to the first character on each account who uses one for that server day. Excess SNC/INCs can also be redeemed for an extremely tiny amount of Aurum. This lets the tokens always have some intrinsic value, while addressing another player complaint of being nickle and dimed to death by Aurum packages not matching extractor and skin prices. Players who like to hunt for goodies have new PVE to complete, players who like to hunt the hunters have new targets, and players who just want their daily boost will log in more often whenever they have the free time as per CCP's goal, without being force fed endless hours of content they don't want to do. Everyone's, if not happy, then at least less dismal.
beakerax Pator Tech School 266	Posted - 2016.04.11 20:52:12 - [1117] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: Character with no active queue or no skill in an active queue are not penalized, they get exactly what they should. You think you are penalized because you fell entitled to those SP. And yet the queue was implemented, and there was much rejoicing.
Nevyn Auscent Broke Sauce 3150	Posted - 2016.04.11 20:52:20 - [1118] - Quote Erihn Sabrovich wrote: The skill gap is way too big as it is now... We are talking about a gap so big that new players will have to play for 12 fuill years to reach the situation where they have HALF of the skill points of older players... This is unreasonnable and undefendable... When you started, you probably only needed something like 2-3 years to do a similar catch-up... There is no such skill gap. 95% of the skills an old character has are not relevant to the hull they are currently flying. Your total SP is not how powerful your character is, it is how many 'classes' you have trained. The fact you are basing your argument on this shows you don't understand the EVE SP system and therefore should not be making suggestions on it since you are starting from a flawed understanding to begin with.
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 2735	Posted - 2016.04.11 21:02:19 - [1119] - Quote beakerax wrote: Frostys Virpio wrote: Character with no active queue or no skill in an active queue are not penalized, they get exactly what they should. You think you are penalized because you fell entitled to those SP. And yet the queue was implemented, and there was much rejoicing. That does not mean you were penalized for failing the requirement of having an active training queue and an skill queued. Just that CCP wanted us to more easily fulfill one of those requirement.
beakerax Pator Tech School 267	Posted - 2016.04.11 21:09:26 - [1120] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: That does not mean you were penalized for failing the requirement of having an active training queue and an skill queued. Just that CCP wanted us to more easily fulfill one of those requirement. CCP Rise wrote: So this leads us to where we are now, attempting to find ways to create more logins that also don't feel like such a punishment as the skill queue limitations did. around and around we go
Skade Fryd Fryd Enterprises 1	Posted - 2016.04.11 21:10:46 - [1121] - Quote I really do not like this idea. I feel like I will be obligated to do this activity to keep up and the problem with that is it just became a chore. Please spend your development time making PvE more enjoyable and interactive and I will log in more on my own, don't add more trivial tasks to complete using the same boring systems.
Lugh Crow-Slave 1875	Posted - 2016.04.11 21:11:02 - [1122] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: beakerax wrote: Frostys Virpio wrote: Character with no active queue or no skill in an active queue are not penalized, they get exactly what they should. You think you are penalized because you fell entitled to those SP. And yet the queue was implemented, and there was much rejoicing. That does not mean you were penalized for failing the requirement of having an active training queue and an skill queued. Just that CCP wanted us to more easily fulfill one of those requirement. either way Quote: make them build so every day 1 rat adds to your counter but the counter never goes over 30 so say you cant log in for half a month when you do log in your counter is at 15/30 so you can go and kill 15 rats but if you stay logged off for a year its only 30/30 this still incentives logging on but its much more free for the player to do it this would be a way to adapt dailies to fit your game rather than just copy past and jam it in is a much less demanding system to get the same resaults as the old skill queue did Citadel worm hole tax
Nevyn Auscent Broke Sauce 3151	Posted - 2016.04.11 21:12:45 - [1123] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: That does not mean you were penalized for failing the requirement of having an active training queue and an skill queued. Just that CCP wanted us to more easily fulfill one of those requirement. You are attempting to argue absolute semantics when discussing feelings. It simply can't be applied that way. If the SP are available but people aren't able to get them due to real life, a lot of people will feel penalised and it is a selling point of EVE that offline passive SP is how you progress, not daily quests. The introduction of daily quests turns SP from a passive thing to an active thing, no matter how easy it is. And it does show a massive change in EVE's SP paradigm. Also, to everyone who said 'SP injectors won't cause any further changes', I present you the proposed daily kill 5 Boar quests as proof you were wrong.
Toppar Wear SniggWaffe WAFFLES. 6	Posted - 2016.04.11 21:14:13 - [1124] - Quote Hey guys, I have a great idea... What about daylies that gives you SP to allocate to a certain area, for example mining gives you SP to spend on industry skills. Not only am I forced to log in everyday, I am also trapped by the activity I do.
Poranius Fisc State War Academy Caldari State 29	Posted - 2016.04.11 21:22:09 - [1125] - Quote Tipa Riot wrote: Thanks for posting some more about the reasoning behind ... but nothing has changed. You want to introduce a reward for logging in every day which can't be ignored without feeling uncomfortable (the whole purpose of the thing). With the "daily" skill queue update I could perfectly time and prepare for vacations or a couple of days off without losing skill points. With your daily quest, I have to login every single day at the same time +-2 hours, to avoid losing skill points. Sorry, but this is a worse deal than the skill queue update, where I actually had options. You always say, features which are not giving a meaningful choice should be given the axe, now you introduce exactly one of those ... ... and yes, you are lazy, I can't believe this is the only idea in the world how to increase the number of login session per player. Why daily? It was not daily before! Why should your inactivity be equal to someone actively playing the game? Atypically, how much you put into a game is what you get out of it. Technically, you are not losing skill points, you are gaining extra. Also the window is said to be 22 hours. so it's technically any time after the 22 hour window opens. And yes, you are lazy. Maybe it should be adjusted to once a week, but still your way of gamming promotes "log in to adjust skill queues and log off. I'm getting the same SP as all those people actively playing".
Lugh Crow-Slave 1875	Posted - 2016.04.11 21:24:01 - [1126] - Quote Poranius Fisc wrote: Tipa Riot wrote: Thanks for posting some more about the reasoning behind ... but nothing has changed. You want to introduce a reward for logging in every day which can't be ignored without feeling uncomfortable (the whole purpose of the thing). With the "daily" skill queue update I could perfectly time and prepare for vacations or a couple of days off without losing skill points. With your daily quest, I have to login every single day at the same time +-2 hours, to avoid losing skill points. Sorry, but this is a worse deal than the skill queue update, where I actually had options. You always say, features which are not giving a meaningful choice should be given the axe, now you introduce exactly one of those ... ... and yes, you are lazy, I can't believe this is the only idea in the world how to increase the number of login session per player. Why daily? It was not daily before! Why should your inactivity be equal to someone actively playing the game? Atypically, how much you put into a game is what you get out of it. Technically, you are not losing skill points, you are gaining extra. Also the window is said to be 22 hours. so it's technically any time after the 22 hour window opens. And yes, you are lazy. Maybe it should be adjusted to once a week, but still your way of gamming promotes "log in to adjust skill queues and log off. I'm getting the same SP as all those people actively playing". what about the ppl who do actively play but dont log in like alliance leaders and ppl helping new players? their activity just not worth the same as some bum sitting in an ore belt? Citadel worm hole tax
Kovl Jita Flipping Inc. 24	Posted - 2016.04.11 21:25:13 - [1127] - Quote Jeremiah Saken wrote: CCP Rise wrote: We want you to be able to collect this reward during a lunch break or a 10 minute period where your kids are in timeout but also want to make sure there's some real gameplay associated with it. CCP Rise wrote: We didn't like the experience around being punished for not logging in to update your queue, but also knew that some of those logins might be leading to meaningful gameplay and we shouldn't lightly let go of them. Decide Rise. You can't have cookie and eat cookie. You think my 10 minute period will lead to something meaningful? Why do you think sunday is a peak in EvE? You target wrong audience. Try 10-20 yold, oh wait you do... Ps. 2 you have no idea what cancer you want to bring to EvE. Underlined part, this is quite scary to be honest - that they have no clue and just copy paste the worst possible pseudomechanic from other games. Or ... they know very well what they do and what kind of cancer they are bringing .... Both alternatives are ... ehhh. Quote: Ps. we need a mounts, I meant SKINs for 30 consecutive dailies (that's how you do dailies), Oh goodness don't give them ideas like that .... This is "harmless" enough for them to actually consider this at some point ....
Ravcharas Infinite Point Violence of Action. 465	Posted - 2016.04.11 21:27:03 - [1128] - Quote Jeremiah Saken wrote: CCP Rise wrote: We want you to be able to collect this reward during a lunch break or a 10 minute period where your kids are in timeout but also want to make sure there's some real gameplay associated with it. CCP Rise wrote: We didn't like the experience around being punished for not logging in to update your queue, but also knew that some of those logins might be leading to meaningful gameplay and we shouldn't lightly let go of them. Decide Rise. You can't have cookie and eat cookie. You think my 10 minute period will lead to something meaningful? This is a good point.
Erihn Sabrovich 3	Posted - 2016.04.11 21:29:55 - [1129] - Quote Nevyn Auscent wrote: There is no such skill gap. 95% of the skills an old character has are not relevant to the hull they are currently flying. Your total SP is not how powerful your character is, it is how many 'classes' you have trained. The fact you are basing your argument on this shows you don't understand the EVE SP system and therefore should not be making suggestions on it since you are starting from a flawed understanding to begin with. If by " 95% of the skills an old character has are not relevant to the hull they are currently flying." you mean that someone which runs on a BS/Large guns don't need to have much skill in lower hulls, I think that it's YOU who are not understanding how things works... A "normal" player, with only ONE account, will have to grind it's way to be able to fly higher hulls... Even if you only need to train lower hulls and guns (or missiles) to level 3 to be able to train BS/Large, you'll also need to earn the money to buy it... enough money to be able to replace it should you lose it... It's true that a PvE player who is running its missions with a BS won't need the smaller hulls anymore, he will probably need to stay quite a time using these smaller hulls to get the needed ISK (or pay2win buying PLEX for ISK). This means training the skills for these smaller ships... Most of these skills that you may find "useless" now were quite useful when you first learned them... You had to rely on them to raise the money for your current pimped ships... And it gets even worse if you plan to play mixed-faction ships (pirate ships and other)... And you'll still need 3 1/2 week (or more) to get many of your level 5 skills... For PvP, you see the same problem (with the addition that PvP will require even more skills as you've to take scam/point and similar in account)... Well, it's even worse when joining fleets which have multiple doctrines and will REQUIRE you to flight in ships of different classes... For industry, every little bonus that you get will directly lead to more margin, which allow you to undercut competitors while still making benefits... And if you go T2, that'll require even more skills (and expensive ones). So, yes, someone with multiple accounts and with lots of ISK available will be able to "cut corners" while training it's skills, a "normal" player with "only one account" won't... Your understanding of game mechanics for "newer players" is quite skewed... maybe you're playing for too long to be able to understand the real player development (the one without massive support from other toons).
Lulu Lunette ThinkTank Phoenix TOG - The Older Gamers Alliance 355	Posted - 2016.04.11 21:30:16 - [1130] - Quote CCP Rise hinted that this could or would be expanded, potentially to include other activities I imagine? The only problem I have with this is it is forcing the Eve Online player through the shoot rats hoops. What about the guy that never undocks and scams and trades all day or the PVPer? Or the miner? I also think the precedent this sets is a slippery slope. Eventually what? Officer experience point rats you can shoot? @lunettelulu7
FT Diomedes The Graduates 2464	Posted - 2016.04.11 21:33:20 - [1131] - Quote CCP Rise wrote: Okay, let's see if I can provide some context for our decision to add daily opportunities to eve and maybe answer some of your bigger questions. Why Dailies? Why Skillpoints? Why so lazy? Respect your players. Respect your game. Respect yourselves. Don't do this. Your logic is so full of holes I could drive a tank through it. I understand that good things sometimes happen when you log in. I understand that good things often happen when you undock. Those good things should be the incentive to log in and undock. They should be compelling enough to make you do both. More on this in a bit... Making me log in at 0300 to change a skill did not result in meaningful interaction. That did not respect my time. You just got me out of bed at an inconvenient time. That sucked as game design and is justifiably gone. Do not weep for it. Eve is a better game without that. Respect Eve for that fact. Why do I have to log in? If people are paying you $130 per year just to train skills, but never logging in, what is your problem with that? As the saying goes, "you can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make him drink." I've been subscribed to this game through two 7-month combat deployments where all I could do was train skills. I've stayed subscribed through family vacations, training exercises, and periods of beautiful beach weather. Why wouldn't you want me as a customer? The only thing that kept me in this game through those times was the premise that my character would be better than it was when I went AFK and the only thing I would miss out on was the opportunity to actually do the fun things in Eve. I missed most of B-R because I was at work. I missed 6DVT because I had to move my Titan before going to the field for two weeks. I missed Asakai because I was infatuated with a new girlfriend. I wish I had been there for those events, but that's life. I would not have started playing Eve at all if it did not have passive skill training. For a person with a career, family, and other things to do in life, this was a major draw. "A game with no grind. A game with no rules. A game with real consequences. A game where you make your own opportunities." That's Eve. I would not have kept playing Eve if I had ever taken a break and felt myself behind other players my age. Why would I subscribe to Eve through months of combat if everyone else comes out 20% ahead? And if my subscription ever lapses, you are not getting me back. My wife will find a use for the money I spend maintaining six accounts. I will find new hobbies. I understand why you have to make the bonus SP. It's the only commodity you have not devalued by making it too easy to acquire. Now you are cashing it in (and preparing to crash it) the same way you did LP (FW and Incursions), ISK (anomalies and Incursions), Deadspace loot (too many escalations, signatures are too common). You will ruin the SP market the same as you did everything else. SP should never have been a market item in the first place, but you already screwed the pooch on that one. If you must give out SP, make it 10,000 per week, per account. Or make it tied to a pool of opportunities that hit wickets that help a player, new or old, progress in Eve and get out of their comfort zone. Eve's appeal is the "Butterfly Effect" and the "I was there" moment. You want us to log in and you want us to undock because it increases the potential for players to interact. This is commonly called "content." But your premise to achieve that goal is flawed. I cannot log in and trigger the next Asakai on my lunch break. If I do, I'm totally screwed because I have to go back to work. I'd be forced to log off and die. And I certainly cannot trigger an "I was there moment" undocking a Vexor to kill a single belt rat. Nothing is really at risk. If you want to get people out in space and interacting, make your incentive require more effort and occur less often. Make it easier to accomplish the more you place at risk. An example of a well-designed incentive was an escalation. A 10/10 eight jumps away offers the potential for a big payout. It requires a decent ship [worthwhile target] to accomplish the mission. Someone sharp at scanning can interrupt the activity, but it's not a gauranteed loss. You used to be able to postpone the escalation up to seven days (and they were less frequent). This respected the players' time. The loot drops used to be worth a lot, before you made them occur too often. What really makes people log in? Player interaction. Watch how quickly people come out of hibernation when a Titan gets tackled or when a war breaks out. Come up with weekly opportunities that scale with player age and ability. Make the incentive something infrequent, very nice, and that puts them at real risk and requires effort. For example, for a younger player, make it a weekly opportunity that requires using a T1 frigate in low sec. It could be something simple, such as "visit five new low sec systems and do SOMETHING in each one." For an older player, make a weekly opportunity that requires using a battleship in low sec, null sec, or wormhole space. For a archaic old bittervet, make it something like "answer five new player questions in the help channel" or "kill another ship with your heavy fighters or doomsday device." Or, remove the weekly requirement, and just tie the reward to the existing opportunity system and greatly expand that. Why shouldn't I, as a nine year veteran, get some incentive to try new things? For example, "Kill another player with every T1 Amarr frigate." Sure, I could be lame and game it by "fighting" my alt, but at least I purchased and fitted some new ships and made something explode. But sadly, you don't respect your players, you don't respect Eve, and you don't respect yourselves. It's easier to do something to make more people log in a bit more often than it is to actually keep making Eve a better experience. CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.
Erihn Sabrovich 3	Posted - 2016.04.11 21:38:50 - [1132] - Quote Poranius Fisc wrote: Why should your inactivity be equal to someone actively playing the game? Atypically, how much you put into a game is what you get out of it. Technically, you are not losing skill points, you are gaining extra. Also the window is said to be 22 hours. so it's technically any time after the 22 hour window opens. And yes, you are lazy. Maybe it should be adjusted to once a week, but still your way of gamming promotes "log in to adjust skill queues and log off. I'm getting the same SP as all those people actively playing". It's also true for board games... Some 5k go player who don't play much won't progress as fast as some other who is actively playing. Well, when it's about Go, Chess, Checkers, Backgammon, ... the more you play, the stronger you get... But also, the stronger you get, the more effort it'll require to continue to get stronger... At first, you can learn much by just watching some games and solving problems... but when your level increases, it'll require more and more active playing to get stronger. And even when it's about learning things, the more you progress, the more EFFORT you'll need... just reading lazily won't get you much anymore... The leaning curve is not only about time, it's also about effort put in the task... And it's definitively *NOT* a matter of staying idle a longer time...
FT Diomedes The Graduates 2465	Posted - 2016.04.11 21:43:35 - [1133] - Quote Nivin Sajjad wrote: This idea is absolutely terrible, but if you are dead set on implementing it, then I have some suggestions on how to make it slightly less terrible. First things first though, here's just why this is so terrible. Players are primed to seek rewards in games. You dangle a worthwhile reward like SP in front of their faces, and players will chase after it. On the other hand, players also hate being forced to perform unengaging repetitive tasks just to get at a reward. If people didn't find current PVE so mind numbing then afktar netflix ticks wouldn't even be a thing. But instead of improving on PVE and making it a more engaging activity in and of itself, you're forcing players to just do more old unfun content. You are literally welding good payoff to bad gameplay, and few things could breed resentment and burnout faster. Combine this with the fact that players can have multiple accounts, filled with multiple characters, many of whom don't even do combat of any kind or have access to easily killable rats at their location, and you've ended up creating a perverse system that literally pits future enjoyment (more SP down the line that can be used or sold) against present enjoyment (freedom to do/not do whatever I want as it suits me) and are forcing players to choose. Assuming just 1 account and easily killable rats nearby for all your toons. What is the choice placed in front of you for getting the most out of your dailies? It's either spend 1 account x 3 character slots x 5 minutes x 365 days a year on unfulfilling busywork, or miss out on a combined 11 MILLION SP A YEAR being free of this nonsense. 90 hours a year of drudgery, or 11 million missed SP? That's the choices you're presenting to players per account, and it's an incredibly crappy thing to do. But okay, we get it. You want to add dailies, and come any amount of player outrage or fatigued unsubs, nothing will stop you. Well here's at least some tips to make it slightly better. 1) Make the event actually a daily, instead of a 22 hourly. Tie the cooldown to system date rather than time delay. The first lets players log in for their daily carrot so long as they have free time during any point of the day, while the second locks players into a 2 hour window at exactly the same time each day where they must log in or lose their bonus. I hope you can see which one is less user friendly. 2) Let acquisition of the daily bonus be as painless as possible for all character types. Anything less is going to feel like CCP is punishing specific styles of play that doesn't involve repeatedly shooting rats within arm's reach during every day of the year. Seeing as CCP doesn't want to encourage "leveling up your Raven" as the epitome of sandbox play, then tying the bonus to repetitive rat killing is daft. 3) The goal is to get players to log in, not to log in once per character. Keep in mind that this is EVE and people will try to min/max until they burn themselves out, so bake burnout limiters into your design from the get go. Make the daily bonus claimable once per account, rather than once per character. Players have the flexibility to choose where the bonus goes, without feeling compelled to keep doing the same grind over and over again quite as much. 4) Creature events around the bonus that are conductive of sandbox play and interaction, rather than try to trick players towards more social engagement and immersion by handing them a carrot that's most easily reached by solo carebearing in highsec. So here's what I propose. Make a permanent Frostline like spawn that drops Inferno Neural Accelerant tokens in lowsec and Synthetic Neural Accelerant elsewhere. These tokens can be used remotely just like skill injectors, and will add 8000 or 10000 SP to the first character on each account who uses one for that server day. Excess SNC/INCs can also be redeemed for an extremely tiny amount of Aurum. This lets the tokens always have some intrinsic value, while addressing another player complaint of being nickle and dimed to death by Aurum packages not matching extractor and skin prices. Players who like to hunt for goodies have new PVE to complete, players who like to hunt the hunters have new targets, and players who just want their daily boost will log in more often whenever they have the free time as per CCP's goal, without being force fed endless hours of content they don't want to do. Everyone's, if not happy, then at least less dismal. These are very good suggestions. CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.
Poranius Fisc State War Academy Caldari State 30	Posted - 2016.04.11 21:44:08 - [1134] - Quote Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: what about the ppl who do actively play but dont log in like alliance leaders and ppl helping new players? their activity just not worth the same as some bum sitting in an ore belt? I imagine your organization as a bunch of bodiless voices having no body in the game. Usually when I help people out, i'm not just sitting on team speak in the forums (I leave the forum work when I'm out mining, hoping someone shows up so I can re-ship and have some fun).
Ravcharas Infinite Point Violence of Action. 467	Posted - 2016.04.11 21:44:58 - [1135] - Quote Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: how about make them build so every day 1 rat adds to your counter but the counter never goes over 30 so say you cant log in for half a month when you do log in your counter is at 15/30 so you can go and kill 15 rats but if you stay logged off for a year its only 30/30 this still incentives logging on but its much more free for the player to do it this would be a way to adapt dailies to fit your game rather than just copy past and jam it in It would still be a chore but at least you could do it at your leisure. The more I think about this the more it feels like it's meant to pave the way for some kind of f2p redesign of the game.
Lugh Crow-Slave 1877	Posted - 2016.04.11 21:45:36 - [1136] - Quote Erihn Sabrovich wrote: Poranius Fisc wrote: Why should your inactivity be equal to someone actively playing the game? Atypically, how much you put into a game is what you get out of it. Technically, you are not losing skill points, you are gaining extra. Also the window is said to be 22 hours. so it's technically any time after the 22 hour window opens. And yes, you are lazy. Maybe it should be adjusted to once a week, but still your way of gamming promotes "log in to adjust skill queues and log off. I'm getting the same SP as all those people actively playing". It's also true for board games... Some 5k go player who don't play much won't progress as fast as some other who is actively playing. Well, when it's about Go, Chess, Checkers, Backgammon, ... the more you play, the stronger you get... But also, the stronger you get, the more effort it'll require to continue to get stronger... At first, you can learn much by just watching some games and solving problems... but when your level increases, it'll require more and more active playing to get stronger. And even when it's about learning things, the more you progress, the more EFFORT you'll need... just reading lazily won't get you much anymore... The leaning curve is not only about time, it's also about effort put in the task... And it's definitively *NOT* a matter of staying idle a longer time... except with chess i need to be there with the board to be actively playing with eve there are so many ways to play w/o being in the game Citadel worm hole tax
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 27337	Posted - 2016.04.11 21:48:36 - [1137] - Quote Erihn Sabrovich wrote: If by " 95% of the skills an old character has are not relevant to the hull they are currently flying." you mean that someone which runs on a BS/Large guns don't need to have much skill in lower hulls, I think that it's YOU who are not understanding how things works... What he means is that for any given thing you're doing or ship you're flying, the vast majority of the skills you have make absolutely no difference. The supposed skill gap does not exist because it hinges on an assumption that more SP means you are universally better when it actually means nothing of the kind. Only applicable SP matter, and that number is almost wholly disconnected from the total SP you have. Quote: A "normal" player, with only ONE account, will have to grind it's way to be able to fly higher hulls. No. Largely because no such grind exists. Poranius Fisc wrote: Why should your inactivity be equal to someone actively playing the game? Atypically, how much you put into a game is what you get out of it. No. Typically, how much time you spend on a game does reflect how much you get out of it. The same holds true for EVE: if you play the game actively, you progress far faster than if you don't. SP is not a factor in this, nor should it be since that has already proven to create very very very bad player behaviour. Quote: Technically, you are not losing skill points, you are gaining extra. Technically, your training day is 24 hours long rather than 18 hours GÇö you lose out on 6 hours worth of training per day. All because you choose to actively play the game rather than subject yourself to whatever monotony CCP demands you do.
Lugh Crow-Slave 1877	Posted - 2016.04.11 21:49:48 - [1138] - Quote Poranius Fisc wrote: Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: what about the ppl who do actively play but dont log in like alliance leaders and ppl helping new players? their activity just not worth the same as some bum sitting in an ore belt? I imagine your organization as a bunch of bodiless voices having no body in the game. Usually when I help people out, i'm not just sitting on team speak in the forums (I leave the forum work when I'm out mining, hoping someone shows up so I can re-ship and have some fun). yet for me where i work on site for sometimes up to 15days w/o being able to go home i help from TS and i get ppl set up by managing logistics to get ships to places ppl can use them for roams or delegate so towers are getting field in our wh just because you do something your way does not mean mine is has impact or value Citadel worm hole tax
Lugh Crow-Slave 1877	Posted - 2016.04.11 21:50:38 - [1139] - Quote Tippia wrote: Erihn Sabrovich wrote: [quote]A "normal" player, with only ONE account, will have to grind it's way to be able to fly higher hulls. No. Largely because no such grind exists. Yet Citadel worm hole tax
wurstsalat Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde 3	Posted - 2016.04.11 21:50:47 - [1140] - Quote This is honestly a terrible idea, the problem of this game is not people not logging in enough, it's burnout. They play, they play too much, and then they need a break, because it started feeling like a job. Instead of trying to fix this problem, dailies will make this exponentially worse. People WILL feel obligated to log in daily and kill that one rat. They will do it for one or 2 months and then just go "**** this". Whoever came up with this idea should be fired. You got this huge spike in players from the war, and after implementing this, maybe 1 or 2 months after the war, active accounts will plummet into a hole deep enough to fit mittanis ego. Improve existing gameplay mechanics if you want more players to log in. This is EVE, we create our own content. Make it easier to create our own content, not force content on people. Especially PvE.
Lugh Crow-Slave 1877	Posted - 2016.04.11 21:51:57 - [1141] - Quote Ravcharas wrote: Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: how about make them build so every day 1 rat adds to your counter but the counter never goes over 30 so say you cant log in for half a month when you do log in your counter is at 15/30 so you can go and kill 15 rats but if you stay logged off for a year its only 30/30 this still incentives logging on but its much more free for the player to do it this would be a way to adapt dailies to fit your game rather than just copy past and jam it in It would still be a chore but at least you could do it at your leisure. The more I think about this the more it feels like it's meant to pave the way for some kind of f2p redesign of the game. aye i would rather it just not go in but at least this is easier on the player and is more reflective of the skill queue Citadel worm hole tax
Erihn Sabrovich 3	Posted - 2016.04.11 22:04:27 - [1142] - Quote Tippia wrote: Erihn Sabrovich wrote: If by " 95% of the skills an old character has are not relevant to the hull they are currently flying." you mean that someone which runs on a BS/Large guns don't need to have much skill in lower hulls, I think that it's YOU who are not understanding how things works... What he means is that for any given thing you're doing or ship you're flying, the vast majority of the skills you have make absolutely no difference. The supposed skill gap does not exist because it hinges on an assumption that more SP means you are universally better when it actually means nothing of the kind. Only applicable SP matter, and that number is almost wholly disconnected from the total SP you have. Except that you have to spend SP on these lower hulls anyway (unless you're playing a 2nd/3rd/... toon and your main can provide him with a big supply of ISK or unless you are going to be pay to win with plexes for money). So, your current SP for your main/First toon includes both the applicable SP you're talking about and the "SP needed to accumulate the needed ISK" that make your SP count bigger even if you don't use these skills anymore... Forgetting about it is missing a big part of the game mechanics... Tippia wrote: Quote: A "normal" player, with only ONE account, will have to grind it's way to be able to fly higher hulls. No. Largely because no such grind exists. What you need to grind is ISK... Big ships are anything but cheap... And you'll also need implants (for skill training), modules, skillbooks, ...
Ishukone Billboard State War Academy Caldari State 2	Posted - 2016.04.11 22:04:44 - [1143] - Quote - get rid of the attribute enhancers in the process (no more fear to lose those shiny implants, that would kick me in the next badass ship 3 days earlier) - instead of unallocated sp -> attributes enhanced - scale the enhancement to the sp of the account (not character), where newer players (up to 10m sp?) get the attributes enhanced by +5 and the older / vets only +3 (or alike scaling) - larger timescale than daily (donGÇÖt make it a job, as i already have one irl), maybe once in a month - reuse your guristas hunt code (one in a month ingame mail GÇPthe empire is in need of your help, bash the badass NPCGÇÖs GÇª bla blaGÇ£ / accept / updated neocom)
wurstsalat Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde 5	Posted - 2016.04.11 22:08:13 - [1144] - Quote Erihn Sabrovich wrote: Poranius Fisc wrote: Why should your inactivity be equal to someone actively playing the game? Atypically, how much you put into a game is what you get out of it. Technically, you are not losing skill points, you are gaining extra. Also the window is said to be 22 hours. so it's technically any time after the 22 hour window opens. And yes, you are lazy. Maybe it should be adjusted to once a week, but still your way of gamming promotes "log in to adjust skill queues and log off. I'm getting the same SP as all those people actively playing". It's also true for board games... Some 5k go player who don't play much won't progress as fast as some other who is actively playing. Well, when it's about Go, Chess, Checkers, Backgammon, ... the more you play, the stronger you get... But also, the stronger you get, the more effort it'll require to continue to get stronger... At first, you can learn much by just watching some games and solving problems... but when your level increases, it'll require more and more active playing to get stronger. And even when it's about learning things, the more you progress, the more EFFORT you'll need... just reading lazily won't get you much anymore... The leaning curve is not only about time, it's also about effort put in the task... And it's definitively *NOT* a matter of staying idle a longer time... Hand a completely new player 1000 skill injectors and 100b. He will blow it all against experienced players and barely kill anyone. Give a 10 year old bittervet a new completely empty account. He will dunk people with a t1 frigate and III skills. This is the unique thing about EVE. Skillpoints in the game don't guarantee you a win or loss as in WoW or other themepark games. The actual skill you level up when playing is in your own head, not on CCP servers. And we don't need dailies to change that.
Lugh Crow-Slave 1877	Posted - 2016.04.11 22:08:54 - [1145] - Quote Ishukone Billboard wrote: - get rid of the attribute enhancers in the process (no more fear to lose those shiny implants, that would kick me in the next badass ship 3 days earlier) - instead of unallocated sp -> attributes enhanced - scale the enhancement to the sp of the account (not character), where newer players (up to 10m sp?) get the attributes enhanced by +5 and the older / vets only +3 (or alike scaling) - larger timescale than daily (donGÇÖt make it a job, as i already have one irl), maybe once in a month - reuse your guristas hunt code (one in a month ingame mail GÇPthe empire is in need of your help, bash the badass NPCGÇÖs GÇª bla blaGÇ£ / accept / updated neocom) why should it be harder for a vet to try something new than a new player say i have 120M sp but i have never flown logi or AF why does a new player get to try that game play b4 me stop making the game worse for vets just for the sake of it eve used to be a game where no one was inherently better than anyone else way was this seen as a bad thing Citadel worm hole tax
sero Hita Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 145	Posted - 2016.04.11 22:10:54 - [1146] - Quote Like some has already said make it once per account pr day (in between downtime). Logging in all alts and kill a rat will just be annoying. If CCP are correct in that logging in leads to you doing more things, one logging would suffice, right?. Or just strait out give people 10k sp per day after being undocked for 10-15 min (if technically possible? could be like a new timer, next to the weapons timer, counting down stopping when docked) At least haulers, people transporting PI stuff, pvp'ers and explorers would also be included in this. "I'm all for pvp, don't get me wrong. I've ganked in Empire, blobed in low sec. Got T-shirts from every which-where.. But to be forced into a pvp confrontation that I didn't want is wrong ccp." RealFlisker
Erihn Sabrovich 3	Posted - 2016.04.11 22:11:29 - [1147] - Quote wurstsalat wrote: Hand a completely new player 1000 skill injectors and 100b. He will blow it all against experienced players and barely kill anyone. Give a 10 year old bittervet a new completely empty account. He will dunk people with a t1 frigate and III skills. This is the unique thing about EVE. Skillpoints in the game don't guarantee you a win or loss as in WoW or other themepark games. The actual skill you level up when playing is in your own head, not on CCP servers. And we don't need dailies to change that. So, if I understand you well, it don't matter if player willing to get more SP by doing dailies can do it and if players who don't want to don't do it as the amount of SP is not important... So, why are you all fighting so much against it ? if it don't matters ?
Lugh Crow-Slave 1877	Posted - 2016.04.11 22:11:49 - [1148] - Quote wurstsalat wrote: Erihn Sabrovich wrote: Poranius Fisc wrote: Why should your inactivity be equal to someone actively playing the game? Atypically, how much you put into a game is what you get out of it. Technically, you are not losing skill points, you are gaining extra. Also the window is said to be 22 hours. so it's technically any time after the 22 hour window opens. And yes, you are lazy. Maybe it should be adjusted to once a week, but still your way of gamming promotes "log in to adjust skill queues and log off. I'm getting the same SP as all those people actively playing". It's also true for board games... Some 5k go player who don't play much won't progress as fast as some other who is actively playing. Well, when it's about Go, Chess, Checkers, Backgammon, ... the more you play, the stronger you get... But also, the stronger you get, the more effort it'll require to continue to get stronger... At first, you can learn much by just watching some games and solving problems... but when your level increases, it'll require more and more active playing to get stronger. And even when it's about learning things, the more you progress, the more EFFORT you'll need... just reading lazily won't get you much anymore... The leaning curve is not only about time, it's also about effort put in the task... And it's definitively *NOT* a matter of staying idle a longer time... Hand a completely new player 1000 skill injectors and 100b. He will blow it all against experienced players and barely kill anyone. Give a 10 year old bittervet a new completely empty account. He will dunk people with a t1 frigate and III skills. This is the unique thing about EVE. Skillpoints in the game don't guarantee you a win or loss as in WoW or other themepark games. The actual skill you level up when playing is in your own head, not on CCP servers. And we don't need dailies to change that. but give a bitter vet 1000 skill injectors and 100b and he will beat the vet on the new character sp is not an i win button but it is advantages Citadel worm hole tax
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 27337	Posted - 2016.04.11 22:13:37 - [1149] - Quote Erihn Sabrovich wrote: Except that Except nothing. It's a simple fact of how ships, equipment, and their bonuses work. At any time you're doing anything, the vast majority of your skills are irrelevant. This portion only increases the more your character gets older and train more skills. But more than that: the older and GÇ£betterGÇ¥ trained it becomes the less valuable the SP become due to the massive diminishing returns, which is inherent in how skill training works. The skill gap ignorant people complain about doesn't exist GÇö it's a figment of their imagination born out of their complete miscomprehension of how the skill system works. Quote: What you need to grind is ISK. Which has nothing to do with the topic at hand and is not an argument against the facts you're trying to argue. If anything, it just further proves how idiotic the proposed mechanic is: it doesn't actually help with the thing you claim GÇ£normalGÇ¥ players need help with (which, by the way, they don't GÇö ISK is pretty trivial to come by these days). Quote: So, your current SP for your main/First toon includes both the applicable SP you're talking about and the "SP needed to accumulate the needed ISKGÇ¥ Those are the same SP, and for the most part, an utterly minute amount of SP is required to accumulate vast amounts of ISK. Technically, you don't need any SP to get huge amounts of ISK.
Nevyn Auscent Broke Sauce 3154	Posted - 2016.04.11 22:16:03 - [1150] - Quote Erihn Sabrovich wrote: Except that you have to spend SP on these lower hulls anyway (unless you're playing a 2nd/3rd/... toon and your main can provide him with a big supply of ISK or unless you are going to be pay to win with plexes for money). To get to a battleship you only need to train skills to 3 along the way. That takes about 2 days or 100k or so of SP. With a ship at 3 you can use it just fine to earn isk along the way also. Guns similar, except even fewer categories. So no, there is no significant skill gap. And there is no need to train stuff to V along the way. You might indeed do so and use it, or you might be like me and have tens of millions of SP in items you've never even used because you like the potential to use it sometime in the future. But simply because you chose to do so, does not make the skill/power gap exist. If you have one lvl 100 character in WOW, and I have 20 lvl 100 characters, I am not 20 times more powerful than you, because I can only play on one at a time. In fact you are probably more powerful than me because you only play a single class so know every single trick while I play lots so I might know them all generally but don't focus as much on them. EVE is exactly the same in terms of how SP actually relates to power. So sure, a brand new character is not as powerful, but it also does not take long for them to become as powerful. And there is no specific need for them to get faster training for that initial time period. Even if there was, Daily quests are not the right way to deal with it. There exist multiple other avenues for new players to be supported better IF it is required at all than introducing a repetitive grind.
wurstsalat Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde 5	Posted - 2016.04.11 22:18:38 - [1151] - Quote Erihn Sabrovich wrote: So, if I understand you well, it don't matter if player willing to get more SP by doing dailies can do it and if players who don't want to don't do it as the amount of SP is not important... So, why are you all fighting so much against it ? if it don't matters ? Because it's dailies. It matters. Did you ever play a game with dailies? Did you ever hear anyone say "Eh who cares about the daily" in a game? Everyone will force themselves to do that, leading to increased burnout.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 27337	Posted - 2016.04.11 22:23:07 - [1152] - Quote Nevyn Auscent wrote: To get to a battleship you only need to train skills to 3 along the way. That takes about 2 days or 100k or so of SP. With a ship at 3 you can use it just fine to earn isk along the way also. Guns similar, except even fewer categories. [GÇª] So sure, a brand new character is not as powerful, but it also does not take long for them to become as powerful. And there is no specific need for them to get faster training for that initial time period. To put this into perspective, Tippia is an 8-+ year old character with some 160M SP. Venture to guess how long it would take for a new character to be better than me at GÇó Flying a frigate GÇó Flying a cruiser GÇó Flying a battleship GÇó Doing PI GÇó T2 production GÇó T3 production GÇó Trading GÇó Exploration
Erihn Sabrovich 4	Posted - 2016.04.11 22:25:06 - [1153] - Quote wurstsalat wrote: Erihn Sabrovich wrote: So, if I understand you well, it don't matter if player willing to get more SP by doing dailies can do it and if players who don't want to don't do it as the amount of SP is not important... So, why are you all fighting so much against it ? if it don't matters ? Because it's dailies. It matters. Did you ever play a game with dailies? Did you ever hear anyone say "Eh who cares about the daily" in a game? Everyone will force themselves to do that, leading to increased burnout. Except that EVERY SINGLE TIME there are talks about alternative ways to get SP, whichever they are, you see the same old players that keep saying that SP are not relevant get all nuclear against it... So, it's not only about the dailies... the same happenned for every single other options... Which means that either you're hypocritical and SP really does matter or you're quite inconsistent...
Lugh Crow-Slave 1878	Posted - 2016.04.11 22:27:41 - [1154] - Quote Erihn Sabrovich wrote: wurstsalat wrote: Erihn Sabrovich wrote: So, if I understand you well, it don't matter if player willing to get more SP by doing dailies can do it and if players who don't want to don't do it as the amount of SP is not important... So, why are you all fighting so much against it ? if it don't matters ? Because it's dailies. It matters. Did you ever play a game with dailies? Did you ever hear anyone say "Eh who cares about the daily" in a game? Everyone will force themselves to do that, leading to increased burnout. Except that EVERY SINGLE TIME there are talks about alternative ways to get SP, whichever they are, you see the same old players that keep saying that SP are not relevant get all nuclear against it... So, it's not only about the dailies... the same happenned for every single other options... Which means that either you're hypocritical and SP really does matter or you're quite inconsistent... it seems ppl pro dailies are saying that SP is not a big deal most ppl against dailies are saying we dont care about the SP its the god damn implementation of any sort of dailies we are against Citadel worm hole tax
Erks Space Farce 1 1	Posted - 2016.04.11 22:28:35 - [1155] - Quote CCP Rise wrote: Okay, let's see if I can provide some context for our decision to add daily opportunities to eve and maybe answer some of your bigger questions. Why Dailies? Why Skillpoints? Why so lazy? New players Wow CCP Many people provided good feedback, here's some of mine, I'm ingeneral of the view that there should be some changes to it. Before we had a negative reward to not logging in, now we have a positive one for logging in. Pretty much a 'have your cake and eat it too' scenario :) So first some key points, this is a change that'll have bigger consequences than immediately apparent. But first if your set on this, some tweaks may be taken: 22 hour clock: I get why it's 22 hours. With 'on server reset' dailies a la GW2, one is able to combo group the daily completion to a longer session every 2 days around 'server reset' time. Its a emergent behaviour that won't be possible here. I don't know if you want that to occur but it gives players more wiggle room to be OCD. My half hearted proposal would be to have multiple reset windows every 4 hours, this would mean a flurry of activity as players rush out on to the field. ie { if (time since last trigger >= 22 && server time mod 4 == 0 ) allow new trigger }. Likely over engineered I admit. The fear is, with 22 hr clock, unhealthy min-max behaviour will be tacitly encouraged, much like with 3 am skill queue changes. Release with more than just proc-ing on NPC kills: the first release should encourage many play styles. On NPC death only focuses on certain skill sets, while harming non-combat characters. Some people will camp the starter-systems with this change. if you spread the accessibility out; -10.0, traders and miners will feel less 'prosecuted'. Any delay of the initial daily release would be, in my eyes, worth it if it meant at least 3 proc-ing events were available. EVE is a sandbox game and that also implies no access to the combat sphere. Focusing on in-space proc's make sense. Reward per account not per character: Fairly simple, this is coming from GW2 experience here. The extra slots add no meaningful game play actions, typically accounts have a 'main' either way that could benefit from it. Though I do have alts that would benifit from ~416 sp/hr effective, I rather let that be a player choice to apply. Skill inflation is also a concern, though you have the metrics to check that out. Reading the tea leaves, I think CCP isn't happy with skill injector prices wrt to PLEX ratios. Those were the smaller tweaks, My the real thing I don't like about it is how artificial it feels- not the lazy argument. The context of playing EVE has some different meanings around skill points that this doesn't reflect. Skill points from thin air is bad. This grants access to 0.6 of a Skill Injector per month and that's closer to free play time, no matter the Skill Injector price. One could argue it's disbursement from the Skill Extractor inefficiency, but that misses the point. One way to address, is to add some more levers to this process. My favourite at the moment is adding this 10k SP drop as an immediately used LP store item. I'd like to call them 'Analysis Reports'. I know that the opportunity system is Rise's baby, but those in space events benefit from the established context of in space drops. LP points are the most useful drops in this context. This way we have more levers: Restock delay on the 10k SP 'analysis report' itself Adjustable LP payout on the daily opportunity: ~2x a lvl 4 for a first number. Adjustable LP cost on the 10k SP Adjustable LP type received This way we have a choice: do the daily or use stored LP from a longer play session. Which is much more meaningful I think, and can last the ~10 min mentioned or several hours. This gives an LP sink, raising the value of poorer chosen types (via raised opportunity cost) and an equal LP source. And the benefit is it ties into the mission structure which has many player sources. One meaningful way to approach the opportunity system for this would be to create mini-missions, lasting 10 minutes. I think this entire thought process calls for this extension- generate mini-sites for content. TL;DR: Most important: _more than one proc event on release_. Add the 10K SP as a limited, time refreshed LP store item. SP gains in space don't match EVE's context, LP and items do.
wurstsalat Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde 5	Posted - 2016.04.11 22:28:55 - [1156] - Quote Erihn Sabrovich wrote: Except that EVERY SINGLE TIME there are talks about alternative ways to get SP, whichever they are, you see the same old players that keep saying that SP are not relevant get all nuclear against it... So, it's not only about the dailies... the same happenned for every single other options... Which means that either you're hypocritical and SP really does matter or you're quite inconsistent... It doesn't matter what exactly they give out. The fact alone that there's a really easy thing to do every day, for a small benefit you wouldn't get otherwise will drive people crazy. I don't care what happened for other options, I'm completely apalled by this single thing, dalies. I don't care what it gives you for completing, I'm 100% against it. It's a disgusting game mechanic. It will do nothing to add to the game, only annoy people.
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 2737	Posted - 2016.04.11 22:36:56 - [1157] - Quote wurstsalat wrote: Because it's dailies. It matters. Did you ever play a game with dailies? Did you ever hear anyone say "Eh who cares about the daily" in a game? Everyone will force themselves to do that, leading to increased burnout. I did and never felt penalized for not doing them. I play games to enjoy the time I spend on them, not min/max every single god damn point of it. Stop taking game as your second job and you'll realize nobody is forcing you to run any daily except yourself.
Poranius Fisc State War Academy Caldari State 30	Posted - 2016.04.11 22:37:34 - [1158] - Quote Nevyn Auscent wrote: Erihn Sabrovich wrote: Except that you have to spend SP on these lower hulls anyway (unless you're playing a 2nd/3rd/... toon and your main can provide him with a big supply of ISK or unless you are going to be pay to win with plexes for money). To get to a battleship you only need to train skills to 3 along the way. That takes about 2 days or 100k or so of SP. With a ship at 3 you can use it just fine to earn isk along the way also. Guns similar, except even fewer categories. So no, there is no significant skill gap. And there is no need to train stuff to V along the way. You might indeed do so and use it, or you might be like me and have tens of millions of SP in items you've never even used because you like the potential to use it sometime in the future. But simply because you chose to do so, does not make the skill/power gap exist. If you have one lvl 100 character in WOW, and I have 20 lvl 100 characters, I am not 20 times more powerful than you, because I can only play on one at a time. In fact you are probably more powerful than me because you only play a single class so know every single trick while I play lots so I might know them all generally but don't focus as much on them. EVE is exactly the same in terms of how SP actually relates to power. So sure, a brand new character is not as powerful, but it also does not take long for them to become as powerful. And there is no specific need for them to get faster training for that initial time period. Even if there was, Daily quests are not the right way to deal with it. There exist multiple other avenues for new players to be supported better IF it is required at all than introducing a repetitive grind. You make a point, but my cross counter is the concept of training only what you need to 3 is the exact reason for soo many blown up battleships out there.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 27338	Posted - 2016.04.11 22:43:36 - [1159] - Quote Poranius Fisc wrote: You make a point, but my cross counter is the concept of training only what you need to 3 is the exact reason for soo many blown up battleships out there. Sure, but that just further demonstrates that the supposed gap in question is not one of SP, but of actual play time and game experimentation, quite contrary to what the myth would suggest.
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 2737	Posted - 2016.04.11 22:52:22 - [1160] - Quote Tippia wrote: Nevyn Auscent wrote: To get to a battleship you only need to train skills to 3 along the way. That takes about 2 days or 100k or so of SP. With a ship at 3 you can use it just fine to earn isk along the way also. Guns similar, except even fewer categories. [GÇª] So sure, a brand new character is not as powerful, but it also does not take long for them to become as powerful. And there is no specific need for them to get faster training for that initial time period. To put this into perspective, Tippia is an 8-+ year old character with some 160M SP. Venture to guess how long it would take for a new character to be better than me at GÇó Flying a frigate GÇó Flying a cruiser GÇó Flying a battleship GÇó Doing PI GÇó T2 production GÇó T3 production GÇó Trading GÇó Exploration Well unless those skills are totally off of those, then it's a few month for any of those with each ship class getting shorter as the newbie progress trying to get to your point because the "sunk cost" of support skills is paid at some point. Take a merlin for example. It's basic with shield tree, Gunnery support skills + small hybrids (+ spec proabably both spec to IV), engineering support, navigation tree, spaceship command + caldari frig, some hull and armor for basic buffer bonus. From there, all combat ship gets easyer because buffer, navigation, engineering and gun support is done. If the cruiser is a Moa for example, your next step should require Caldari destroyer skilled up, Caldari cruiser, medium hybrid (+ specs) and small drones. It's more like an SP stair we deal with. Not really a curve because some "steps" are required to some goals even if they give you nothing directly for your goal but definitely not a cliff. This game sure isn't a case of "you are useless unless you can fly all T2 cruisers or something like that like some people see it.
Ishukone Billboard State War Academy Caldari State 3	Posted - 2016.04.11 23:10:43 - [1161] - Quote Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Ishukone Billboard wrote: - get rid of the attribute enhancers in the process (no more fear to lose those shiny implants, that would kick me in the next badass ship 3 days earlier) - instead of unallocated sp -> attributes enhanced - scale the enhancement to the sp of the account (not character), where newer players (up to 10m sp?) get the attributes enhanced by +5 and the older / vets only +3 (or alike scaling) - larger timescale than daily (donGÇÖt make it a job, as i already have one irl), maybe once in a month - reuse your guristas hunt code (one in a month ingame mail GÇPthe empire is in need of your help, bash the badass NPCGÇÖs GÇª bla blaGÇ£ / accept / updated neocom) why should it be harder for a vet to try something new than a new player say i have 120M sp but i have never flown logi or AF why does a new player get to try that game play b4 me stop making the game worse for vets just for the sake of it eve used to be a game where no one was inherently better than anyone else way was this seen as a bad thing simple: why not? i for myself have a main of about 170 m sp and don't feel penalized if newbros have a little advantage in the beginning i like newbros and wan't as many as possible as they enrich the gameplay (ever tried pvp and starred in empty local?) and don't mind if they get some incentives on the long way becoming a vet aside from this, the scaling isn't something new, as the same idea came along with skill injectors
Erihn Sabrovich 4	Posted - 2016.04.11 23:11:13 - [1162] - Quote wurstsalat wrote: Erihn Sabrovich wrote: Except that EVERY SINGLE TIME there are talks about alternative ways to get SP, whichever they are, you see the same old players that keep saying that SP are not relevant get all nuclear against it... So, it's not only about the dailies... the same happenned for every single other options... Which means that either you're hypocritical and SP really does matter or you're quite inconsistent... It doesn't matter what exactly they give out. The fact alone that there's a really easy thing to do every day, for a small benefit you wouldn't get otherwise will drive people crazy. I don't care what happened for other options, I'm completely apalled by this single thing, dalies. I don't care what it gives you for completing, I'm 100% against it. It's a disgusting game mechanic. It will do nothing to add to the game, only annoy people. I do agree with you on one point : the daily aspect is not a very good thing... On the other hand, older players WILL leave anyway... Some may leave for RL events, other because they get bored, other could leave for financial reasons, ... which means that CCP needs to get new players. EVE mechanics are quite difficult to understand, which may be a big turn off to new players... But it's not the only turn off... (and somehow, that turn off is quite a good thing as it somehow protect us from "kiddies") The skill gap is a fact (even if it sometimes don't matters so much, it's present and the videos of epic fights that you may see will make that feeling even worse). You don't need to be able to pilot capitals to have fun (to be honest, I'm having enough fun with my BC that I don't care to switch to a BS although I've both the skills and ISK to do it). But for new players, having a look at how much time it'll need to be able to pilot them is a big turn off... We both understand game mechanics enough to choose our skills wisely... but for someone who is new to the game, it's not true... there are so many of them, Aura's tutorial is opening so many career opportunities that they will learn useless skills... An average newbie may end up with more than half of his SP spent in useless skills... because he just has no clue... On the other hand, these are usually cheap skills and if he feel he can easily get these SP back (with dailiers or other), it won't be felt as a severe mistake... Another problem is the lack of "persistant rewards"... It may sound silly but many people like to get their actions rewarded... and not only through expandable things (modules, LP, ISK, ...) but also through long-term effects... You see people grinding reps just for the fun of it... How many people farmed SOE LP's to buy a ship that they don't plan to use... only because they see that ship as an hard-earned reward... But that kind of rewards are scarce and usually not visible to new players which is another turn off... Even it pisses me off each time I reinstall the game (I'm playing through WINE so it happened a little more than it does for a Windows player), opportunities are a great addition as it gives some goals to new players... dailies/weeklies/monthlies/... for SP can be thought the same way as SP (and skills) are the most persistent data (even more since you don't need to upgrade your clone anymore) As I said earlier, it don't really matter for "older players"... they don't want to change their playing behaviour no matter what so the dailies would only pisses them off (like you said)... But it may be useful for younger players... That's one of the reasons behind my suggestion of decreasing return... make the dailies nearly worthless for older players so they don't feel required to do them... And that's when some older players got nuclear on me... You may think some other way, but many older players think that their higher SP is some holy graal and that anything that could even slightly erode it is a severe offence... Like spoiled brat who are getting angry at the idea that some other children could get some toys similar to theirs... As I said the same happened every single times some way that could lower the skill-gap have been told off on the forum... So the problem is not only "daily" related...
Esna Pitoojee Offworld Trading Company 539	Posted - 2016.04.11 23:28:43 - [1163] - Quote There is no part of this that sounds rewarding and enjoyable to participate in. I come to EVE to sit back and do what I like (or not), which this idea seems to run directly contrary to. The difference between this and the daily achievements in many other games is that they offer a variety of options for things to do in order to get your rewards. Achievements which reward you for naturally playing as you normally would are good; achievements which reward you for being shoehorned into a particular variety of activity are not.
Jediseah Tophet Star Frontiers Brotherhood of Spacers 4	Posted - 2016.04.11 23:34:18 - [1164] - Quote I don't like the low bar for entry and/or the frequency of the activity. Having multiple goals achieved over a week might sound much more reasonable IMO than forcing a player to have to do a certain activity daily.
Miss 'Assassination' Cayman CK-0FF Violence of Action. 74	Posted - 2016.04.11 23:34:26 - [1165] - Quote Ok, so let's look at what this will do. Assuming the rewards aren't significant enough to break the game, it's about player behavior. It's about getting people to log in every day because they have something to gain for doing so. If everyone stands to gain the same thing, anyone who doesn't do the activity falls behind everyone else and their own potential. So really even if it's not "required" it will create a feeling of having to do it to avoid losing out. So, how do people react to feeling like they need to do something whether they want to or not? They grow to hate the activity. Do you want people to hate logging in and doing stuff? For a short while it may be exciting and invoke thoughts of "yay bonus!" but soon it will feel like a job and people will either suffer through it for the reward while hating every moment, or not do it and feel like they're constantly falling behind. Making players do something they hate or fall behind everyone else is not healthy. Like for me personally, I'm kind of burnt out on Eve and annoyed by a bunch of recent changes that I'm not too find of, but the plan was to keep the skills training and not play quite as much while recovering. If a mechanic like this were introduced where my characters would continually fall behind in training even with a perfect remap and set of +5s, there's no reason to keep the subscriptions going when I could just unsub and switch to other games that don't pretend to be jobs.
Armark Bether NRDS Anonyme Echoes of Nowhere 7	Posted - 2016.04.11 23:34:42 - [1166] - Quote I'm 110% against that feature, I don't want to have to log daily or virtually lose 6 hours of training/day missed. In my opinion, games should never force you, even gently, to log every day. Once every few days would be OK especially in EVE, but not daily. There are days where I simply can't log in, let alone undock and kill a rat. Plus, what I really liked in EVE was the fact that your character grows regardless to your dedication to the game (even if your wealth and social connections does not). How many times did I show a MMO to a friend, only to find that he outleveled and outgeared my 60-days old char in a week ? I know that this is just some collateral damage from the choice of SP as a reward, but still. I'd be totally OK though if this had either smaller rewards (~5k SP, less significant but not negligible) or bigger rewards with bigger time intervals, like 30k SP in 72 hours intervals (not with a timer, the requirement being to log once in a fixed time interval, regardless of your last login).
Moebbius Aideron Robotics 10	Posted - 2016.04.11 23:55:36 - [1167] - Quote Please no, dont do this. Dont turn eve into all the other MMO's where you need to do some dailey's. It also completely doesnt fit with EvE. So please dont do this, please dont
Miss 'Assassination' Cayman CK-0FF Violence of Action. 75	Posted - 2016.04.12 00:10:37 - [1168] - Quote Someone on Reddit had an interesting idea: If you really must do dailies, how about the reward being the ability to move some SP from trained skills to the unallocated pool with perfect efficiency? That would be handy and unique, and could make existing SP more useful without messing up long-term training plans for those who can't log in.
Masao Kurata Many Much Mechanics 473	Posted - 2016.04.12 00:17:15 - [1169] - Quote CCP Rise wrote: Wow CCP And finally the traditional MMO comparisons. While I found most of these comments to be the most entertaining, it's pretty absurd to think that any feature which can be found in a traditional MMO appearing in EVE means we are headed down the road to battlegrounds and dragon killing. If you look at Citadel feature list you should not have any concerns about our commitment to the EVE sandbox and the hardcore nature of our game. Actually citadels are much more concerning than this (which is still pretty damn awful), and I'll be posting in detail about why when I've managed to a) get them working well enough on sisi to finish testing all the scenarios I have planned and b) taken enough time out from wrecking bears on tq.
Pryce Caesar Evil Young Flesh 61	Posted - 2016.04.12 00:40:28 - [1170] - Quote Masao Kurata wrote: CCP Rise wrote: Wow CCP And finally the traditional MMO comparisons. While I found most of these comments to be the most entertaining, it's pretty absurd to think that any feature which can be found in a traditional MMO appearing in EVE means we are headed down the road to battlegrounds and dragon killing. If you look at Citadel feature list you should not have any concerns about our commitment to the EVE sandbox and the hardcore nature of our game. Actually citadels are much more concerning than this (which is still pretty damn awful), and I'll be posting in detail about why when I've managed to a) get them working well enough on sisi to finish testing all the scenarios I have planned and b) taken enough time out from wrecking bears on tq. Let me guess: the rise of the Citadels gives all the power in EVE Online to the bigger and more powerful veteran alliances, because they'll be able to field more Fortizars and/or Keepstars than newer alliances who are trying to make it on their own throughout New Eden. This power imbalance is further widened by the fact that Citadels are more than able to fight back against fleets on their own (completely repel them with a fleet supporting the Citadel). This means that players can no longer capture Stations in the traditional sense, and instead have to expend resources over the course of a week in order to destroy a Citadel in order to gain control of the system. Meanwhile, a superior alliance will have the time and resources to continually build fleets back up for the next stage of defense, while the lesser alliance will struggle keeping up a continual assault. Gone will be the days of skirmishing nodes in order to capture structures in systems; if you want to claim a system with a Citadel in it, you have to come prepared for prolonged battle. Can I assume that I have covered all the points that concern you? The Daily opportunities do not threaten the nature of EVE, either. In a way, it is actually productive, rewarding the players properly for engaging in activities in EVE Online, and allow them to quicken the training of whatever skills they desire. It is beneficial to all players, even the veteran ones who want to train into skills they weren't trained in before. I am personally looking forward to it; it will help me to catch up in much needed skills.
Petrified Old and Petrified Syndication TOG - The Older Gamers Alliance 373	Posted - 2016.04.12 00:42:59 - [1171] - Quote CCP Rise wrote: ... So this leads us to where we are now, attempting to find ways to create more logins that also don't feel like such a punishment as the skill queue limitations did. This may not turn out to be the perfect alternative but that's what we're looking for. Fair enough, but in this case you should simply restrict the SP delivery to the act of logging in itself. If, as you say, getting the player into the client is the goal, then tying it to an activity the player may or may not desire to engage in would fail. So, some suggestions: 1 - Lose the 22 hour time period. That is simply dumb. Just have the Logon Reward reset every downtime. 2 - Lose the term daily. Restrict this to one event only: logging into the character. If the goal, as you state, is to reward people for logging in and, as you state, logging in itself under the old queue system resulted in more than just logging in, you don't need it tied to an activity. 3 - If you absolutely feel the need to tie it to an activity, then you need to not just implement this with NPC combat. The reward is granted for completing one of any designated activities: scanning an anomaly, blowing up an NPC, blowing up another player, creating a market order/purchase, starting an industry/research job, jumping through a wormhole/gate, etc. But, above all, lose the 22 hour time period. Just tie it to down time as the reset period. You are making more work for yourselves and players with anything else. Cloaking is the closest thing to a "Pause Game" button one can get while in space.
Ligraph Metallurgy Incorporated 9	Posted - 2016.04.12 01:14:28 - [1172] - Quote The thing about the daily complaint: I've played daily games, it sucks, and I would never want to see this in eve. But, this isn't really dailies. It just rewards people for doing what they normally do, assuming people don't never kill rats. For this reason, I would like it to be a reward for industry or PvP or Rats. Fuzzy cloaking Wormhole Stabilizer citadels Cloaky Fleet Transport
Boe Harknes Wounded Asteroid Management and Protection Squad Dredd - The Purification Project 9	Posted - 2016.04.12 01:14:44 - [1173] - Quote i have to admit i do not like this idea. the obvious implications is we are now generating sp from now. another post already shows how this can easily be abused and used to farm skill points. I play this game because my progressive is set by time. not because inhave to grind dailies for progress. change it to LP or isk bonus but not skill points.
Lugh Crow-Slave 1881	Posted - 2016.04.12 01:35:30 - [1174] - Quote Ligraph wrote: The thing about the daily complaint: I've played daily games, it sucks, and I would never want to see this in eve. But, this isn't really dailies. It just rewards people for doing what they normally do, assuming people don't never kill rats. For this reason, I would like it to be a reward for industry or PvP or Rats. most ppl are not upset with this in particular we are afraid ccp is using it to test something bigger and more intrusive Citadel worm hole tax
Rain6639 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3858	Posted - 2016.04.12 01:37:59 - [1175] - Quote Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Ligraph wrote: The thing about the daily complaint: I've played daily games, it sucks, and I would never want to see this in eve. But, this isn't really dailies. It just rewards people for doing what they normally do, assuming people don't never kill rats. For this reason, I would like it to be a reward for industry or PvP or Rats. most ppl are not upset with this in particular we are afraid ccp is using it to test something bigger and more intrusive no that was injectors.
Masao Kurata Many Much Mechanics 474	Posted - 2016.04.12 01:38:42 - [1176] - Quote Pryce Caesar wrote: Can I assume that I have covered all the points that concern you? No, their mechanics are actually incredibly imbalanced to say the least and completely broken when exploited to full effectiveness. I also literally do not care about null warfare, CCP has still given little reason for owning nullsec to matter except for penis comparison, especially since owning the new Jita market will be worth more than all of nullsec put together.
Rain6639 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3858	Posted - 2016.04.12 01:38:45 - [1177] - Quote just go with it
Mikkal Rune Ammatar Academy of Sciences 5	Posted - 2016.04.12 01:47:28 - [1178] - Quote I disagree with this, for the reasons given here.
Rain6639 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3858	Posted - 2016.04.12 01:48:18 - [1179] - Quote Masao Kurata wrote: Pryce Caesar wrote: Can I assume that I have covered all the points that concern you? No, their mechanics are actually incredibly imbalanced to say the least and completely broken when exploited to full effectiveness. I also literally do not care about null warfare, CCP has still given little reason for owning nullsec to matter except for penis comparison, especially since owning the new Jita market will be worth more than all of nullsec put together. null-sec (the scope videos made me do it) is the one place where you get new spawns of rats as one dies.
Masao Kurata Many Much Mechanics 475	Posted - 2016.04.12 01:57:08 - [1180] - Quote Rain6639 wrote: Masao Kurata wrote: Pryce Caesar wrote: Can I assume that I have covered all the points that concern you? No, their mechanics are actually incredibly imbalanced to say the least and completely broken when exploited to full effectiveness. I also literally do not care about null warfare, CCP has still given little reason for owning nullsec to matter except for penis comparison, especially since owning the new Jita market will be worth more than all of nullsec put together. null-sec (the scope videos made me do it) is the one place where you get new spawns of rats as one dies. And ratting is miniscule compared to a cut of all Jita trade. This thread's not about citadels though. I'll be making posts about them soon.
Rain6639 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3858	Posted - 2016.04.12 02:02:45 - [1181] - Quote my point is a daily 10k SP carrot is a buff to null sec
Lugh Crow-Slave 1882	Posted - 2016.04.12 02:16:49 - [1182] - Quote Rain6639 wrote: my point is a daily 10k SP carrot is a buff to null sec not a buff to anything its a nerf to freedom Citadel worm hole tax
Daichi Yamato Xero Security and Technologies 3194	Posted - 2016.04.12 02:25:25 - [1183] - Quote Jediseah Tophet wrote: I don't like the low bar for entry and/or the frequency of the activity. Having multiple goals achieved over a week might sound much more reasonable IMO than forcing a player to have to do a certain activity daily. If you make it 7 activities over the course of a week it not only doesnt help CCP's log in numbers but also means the players who log in once a week have to spend that one day doing these 7 silly tasks to get their reward rather than doing what they want. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided" Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Rain6639 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3859	Posted - 2016.04.12 02:36:16 - [1184] - Quote Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Rain6639 wrote: my point is a daily 10k SP carrot is a buff to null sec not a buff to anything its a nerf to freedom dude. how do you think I feel about chasing entosis nodes.
Lugh Crow-Slave 1882	Posted - 2016.04.12 02:37:02 - [1185] - Quote Daichi Yamato wrote: Jediseah Tophet wrote: I don't like the low bar for entry and/or the frequency of the activity. Having multiple goals achieved over a week might sound much more reasonable IMO than forcing a player to have to do a certain activity daily. If you make it 7 activities over the course of a week it not only doesnt help CCP's log in numbers but also means the players who log in once a week have to spend that one day doing these 7 silly tasks to get their reward rather than doing what they want. i still think the best compromise is Quote: make them build so every day 1 rat adds to your counter but the counter never goes over 30 so say you cant log in for half a month when you do log in your counter is at 15/30 so you can go and kill 15 rats but if you stay logged off for a year its only 30/30 this still incentives logging on but its much more free for the player to do it this would be a way to adapt dailies to fit your game rather than just copy past and jam it in Citadel worm hole tax
Amarisen Gream Divine Demise Apocalypse Now. 246	Posted - 2016.04.12 02:56:41 - [1186] - Quote Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Daichi Yamato wrote: Jediseah Tophet wrote: I don't like the low bar for entry and/or the frequency of the activity. Having multiple goals achieved over a week might sound much more reasonable IMO than forcing a player to have to do a certain activity daily. If you make it 7 activities over the course of a week it not only doesnt help CCP's log in numbers but also means the players who log in once a week have to spend that one day doing these 7 silly tasks to get their reward rather than doing what they want. i still think the best compromise is Quote: make them build so every day 1 rat adds to your counter but the counter never goes over 30 so say you cant log in for half a month when you do log in your counter is at 15/30 so you can go and kill 15 rats but if you stay logged off for a year its only 30/30 this still incentives logging on but its much more free for the player to do it this would be a way to adapt dailies to fit your game rather than just copy past and jam it in Have to say, I agree with this compromise. At least i won't be peeing on any shoes this way. "The Lord loosed upon them his fierce anger All of his fury and rage. He dispatched against them a band of Avenging Angels" - The Scriptures, Book II, Apocalypse 10:1 DIDE- is open to new members
Chjna the Goose Flock 20	Posted - 2016.04.12 03:50:13 - [1187] - Quote To be compleatly honest most of us do not care if the game suddenly get more people logging in, if they not provide content and interact with the rest of us. Sure some will logg in with this as a reason and then stay on and do some other stuff. The main bulk of the allready active players will feel forced to spend time on this kind of pointless gameplay and have less time over for interacting with the rest of us. The game have a couple of mecanics that pushes people to log AND interact with the rest of us without feeling forced like this. Some examples would be: --- PvP --- Forming for timers in wars. --- Industry --- Keep your production lines full. Getting your auctions for teams and move to where good ones land... ops you removed a great one, smart move. --- Market --- Updating your orders. Refill empty orders. This kind of stimulation is a integrated part of the game and the playerbase will not complain. You do not feel that your freedom is taken from you. It is tied to a path you chose to take. Stuff that make us not want to log in is a stagnant game. Capsuleers are working hard right now to remove the biggest reason to this. First after the downfall of a certan entety, can we hope for a more active and intresting game. Remove T2 BPOs
Lugh Crow-Slave 1886	Posted - 2016.04.12 03:53:23 - [1188] - Quote Chjna wrote: To be compleatly honest most of us do not care if the game suddenly get more people logging in, if they not provide content and interact with the rest of us. Sure some will logg in with this as a reason and then stay on and do some other stuff. The main bulk of the allready active players will feel forced to spend time on this kind of pointless gameplay and have less time over for interacting with the rest of us. The game have a couple of mecanics that pushes people to log AND interact with the rest of us without feeling forced like this. Some examples would be: --- PvP --- Forming for timers in wars. --- Industry --- Keep your production lines full. Getting your auctions for teams and move to where good ones land... ops you removed a great one, smart move. --- Market --- Updating your orders. Refill empty orders. This kind of stimulation is a integrated part of the game and the playerbase will not complain. You do not feel that your freedom is taken from you. It is tied to a path you chose to take. Stuff that make us not want to log in is a stagnant game. Capsuleers are working hard right now to remove the biggest reason to this. First after the downfall of a certan entety, can we hope for a more active and intresting game. Not that your point isn't valid but uhh..... teams don't exist Citadel worm hole tax
Vic Jefferson Stimulus Rote Kapelle 988	Posted - 2016.04.12 03:59:29 - [1189] - Quote The rat kill is the silliest part of this. They already know very much about the 'Leveling a Raven' syndrome, so why are they feeding it? Joining player corp and staying in it for lengths of time? Now that is something that generates content, and gets people drawn into the game and its goings on. Don't feed the Raven. Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM XI
Lugh Crow-Slave 1886	Posted - 2016.04.12 04:11:09 - [1190] - Quote Vic Jefferson wrote: The rat kill is the silliest part of this. They already know very much about the 'Leveling a Raven' syndrome, so why are they feeding it? Joining player corp and staying in it for lengths of time? Now that is something that generates content, and gets people drawn into the game and its goings on. Don't feed the Raven. CCP is bad when they try to be clever you know not what you ate asking Citadel worm hole tax
Chjna the Goose Flock 20	Posted - 2016.04.12 04:11:10 - [1191] - Quote Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Chjna wrote: To be compleatly honest most of us do not care if the game suddenly get more people logging in, if they not provide content and interact with the rest of us. Sure some will logg in with this as a reason and then stay on and do some other stuff. The main bulk of the allready active players will feel forced to spend time on this kind of pointless gameplay and have less time over for interacting with the rest of us. The game have a couple of mecanics that pushes people to log AND interact with the rest of us without feeling forced like this. Some examples would be: --- PvP --- Forming for timers in wars. --- Industry --- Keep your production lines full. Getting your auctions for teams and move to where good ones land... ops you removed a great one, smart move. --- Market --- Updating your orders. Refill empty orders. This kind of stimulation is a integrated part of the game and the playerbase will not complain. You do not feel that your freedom is taken from you. It is tied to a path you chose to take. Stuff that make us not want to log in is a stagnant game. Capsuleers are working hard right now to remove the biggest reason to this. First after the downfall of a certan entety, can we hope for a more active and intresting game. Not that your point isn't valid but uhh..... teams don't exist Care to read that line again? :P Remove T2 BPOs
Lugh Crow-Slave 1886	Posted - 2016.04.12 04:24:12 - [1192] - Quote Chjna wrote: Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Chjna wrote: To be compleatly honest most of us do not care if the game suddenly get more people logging in, if they not provide content and interact with the rest of us. Sure some will logg in with this as a reason and then stay on and do some other stuff. The main bulk of the allready active players will feel forced to spend time on this kind of pointless gameplay and have less time over for interacting with the rest of us. The game have a couple of mecanics that pushes people to log AND interact with the rest of us without feeling forced like this. Some examples would be: --- PvP --- Forming for timers in wars. --- Industry --- Keep your production lines full. Getting your auctions for teams and move to where good ones land... ops you removed a great one, smart move. --- Market --- Updating your orders. Refill empty orders. This kind of stimulation is a integrated part of the game and the playerbase will not complain. You do not feel that your freedom is taken from you. It is tied to a path you chose to take. Stuff that make us not want to log in is a stagnant game. Capsuleers are working hard right now to remove the biggest reason to this. First after the downfall of a certan entety, can we hope for a more active and intresting game. Not that your point isn't valid but uhh..... teams don't exist Care to read that line again? :P My bad 4am and it stung a bit as I think they had great potential Citadel worm hole tax
Mara Pahrdi The Order of Anoyia 1119	Posted - 2016.04.12 05:02:41 - [1193] - Quote CCP Rise wrote: Why Dailies? So first lets talk a little history. EVE had a daily logon incentive for most of it's existence: the 24 hour skill queue limit. Back in Phoebe, we removed those limitations. Now, at the time, we were of two minds internally. We didn't like the experience around being punished for not logging in to update your queue, but also knew that some of those logins might be leading to meaningful gameplay and we shouldn't lightly let go of them. We leaned to the side of a better experience and removed the limitations, hoping that the logins we were generating were fairly empty, rarely leading to more actual activity in the universe. Well, it turns out we were wrong about that. Now, with before and after data we can see that making it into the client is a huge step towards real activity, even if the reason for logging in in the first place seems artificial. So this leads us to where we are now, attempting to find ways to create more logins that also don't feel like such a punishment as the skill queue limitations did. This may not turn out to be the perfect alternative but that's what we're looking for. Thanks for the laugh. Remove insurance.
Lugh Crow-Slave 1886	Posted - 2016.04.12 05:06:01 - [1194] - Quote Mara Pahrdi wrote: CCP Rise wrote: Why Dailies? So first lets talk a little history. EVE had a daily logon incentive for most of it's existence: the 24 hour skill queue limit. Back in Phoebe, we removed those limitations. Now, at the time, we were of two minds internally. We didn't like the experience around being punished for not logging in to update your queue, but also knew that some of those logins might be leading to meaningful gameplay and we shouldn't lightly let go of them. We leaned to the side of a better experience and removed the limitations, hoping that the logins we were generating were fairly empty, rarely leading to more actual activity in the universe. Well, it turns out we were wrong about that. Now, with before and after data we can see that making it into the client is a huge step towards real activity, even if the reason for logging in in the first place seems artificial. So this leads us to where we are now, attempting to find ways to create more logins that also don't feel like such a punishment as the skill queue limitations did. This may not turn out to be the perfect alternative but that's what we're looking for. Thanks for the laugh. I feel like if this was true they would just reverse the change done to the queue Citadel worm hole tax
Mara Pahrdi The Order of Anoyia 1120	Posted - 2016.04.12 05:28:06 - [1195] - Quote Erihn Sabrovich wrote: EVE mechanics are quite difficult to understand, which may be a big turn off to new players... But it's not the only turn off... (and somehow, that turn off is quite a good thing as it somehow protect us from "kiddies") Not really. It's more the amount of different mechanics that is challenging for a new player. And while Blizzard has been abolishing game mechanics over time to reduce complexity, CCP went the other way. Remove insurance.
Mara Pahrdi The Order of Anoyia 1120	Posted - 2016.04.12 05:34:28 - [1196] - Quote Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Mara Pahrdi wrote: CCP Rise wrote: Why Dailies? So first lets talk a little history. EVE had a daily logon incentive for most of it's existence: the 24 hour skill queue limit. Back in Phoebe, we removed those limitations. Now, at the time, we were of two minds internally. We didn't like the experience around being punished for not logging in to update your queue, but also knew that some of those logins might be leading to meaningful gameplay and we shouldn't lightly let go of them. We leaned to the side of a better experience and removed the limitations, hoping that the logins we were generating were fairly empty, rarely leading to more actual activity in the universe. Well, it turns out we were wrong about that. Now, with before and after data we can see that making it into the client is a huge step towards real activity, even if the reason for logging in in the first place seems artificial. So this leads us to where we are now, attempting to find ways to create more logins that also don't feel like such a punishment as the skill queue limitations did. This may not turn out to be the perfect alternative but that's what we're looking for. Thanks for the laugh. I feel like if this was true they would just reverse the change done to the queue Well, hard to do that with this kind of feature. Remove insurance.
Lugh Crow-Slave 1887	Posted - 2016.04.12 05:34:59 - [1197] - Quote Mara Pahrdi wrote: Erihn Sabrovich wrote: EVE mechanics are quite difficult to understand, which may be a big turn off to new players... But it's not the only turn off... (and somehow, that turn off is quite a good thing as it somehow protect us from "kiddies") Not really. It's more the amount of different mechanics that is challenging for a new player. And while Blizzard has been abolishing game mechanics over time to reduce complexity, CCP went the other way. It's not good that it protects is from kiddies That is just the nessesary evil that comes with the level of depth and freedom in the game mechanics Citadel worm hole tax
Lugh Crow-Slave 1887	Posted - 2016.04.12 05:36:39 - [1198] - Quote Mara Pahrdi wrote: Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Mara Pahrdi wrote: CCP Rise wrote: Why Dailies? So first lets talk a little history. EVE had a daily logon incentive for most of it's existence: the 24 hour skill queue limit. Back in Phoebe, we removed those limitations. Now, at the time, we were of two minds internally. We didn't like the experience around being punished for not logging in to update your queue, but also knew that some of those logins might be leading to meaningful gameplay and we shouldn't lightly let go of them. We leaned to the side of a better experience and removed the limitations, hoping that the logins we were generating were fairly empty, rarely leading to more actual activity in the universe. Well, it turns out we were wrong about that. Now, with before and after data we can see that making it into the client is a huge step towards real activity, even if the reason for logging in in the first place seems artificial. So this leads us to where we are now, attempting to find ways to create more logins that also don't feel like such a punishment as the skill queue limitations did. This may not turn out to be the perfect alternative but that's what we're looking for. Thanks for the laugh. I feel like if this was true they would just reverse the change done to the queue Well, hard to do that with this kind of feature. Not really just make it impossable to add a skill to a queue that currently extends past 24hr Of you mean do to the back lash it would be just as bad or smaller than it is with dailies Citadel worm hole tax
Mikkal Rune Ammatar Academy of Sciences 7	Posted - 2016.04.12 06:19:23 - [1199] - Quote This post (which I've already linked once, but having read the entire thread, it really is the most coherent and cogent) already said everything really necessary (especially the bit where she points out that RiseGÇÖs funny ideas about what we all should be doing in New Eden are "utterly and completely irrelevant" ), but GÇô now that it's evening and I've had a glass of wine or two GÇô where the hell has CCP's artistic integrity gone these days? Game releases of Eve Online used to be about testing and extending the limits of the sandbox, providing challenging new things to do, more complexity to master, new reasons to HTFU. Eve was a work of art, with CCP creating an increasingly sophisticated dystopian image of a future society and letting it play out in the interactions of players with the environment and with each other. There was an artistic concept, a vision behind it all. To judge by his recent ideas, that vision doesn't interest Rise in the slightest. In fact, I doubt he has ever understood it. This new "improvement" is like a painter deciding to offer people $5 to look at his painting. If the painting was at all good, people would look at it without having to be given special incentives. But that's all beyond Rise. All he can imagine is offering carrots. It will make more people log in each day, so it must be good, right? In my view that's an admission of total intellectual bankrupcy. In any case, my sub comes up for renewal in the summer. Or not. Currently more likely not.
Lugh Crow-Slave 1887	Posted - 2016.04.12 06:29:49 - [1200] - Quote Mikkal Rune wrote: This post (which I've already linked once, but having read the entire thread, it really is the most coherent and cogent) already said everything really necessary (especially the bit where she points out that RiseGÇÖs funny ideas about what we all should be doing in New Eden are "utterly and completely irrelevant" ), but GÇô now that it's evening and I've had a glass of wine or two GÇô where the hell has CCP's artistic integrity gone these days? Game releases of Eve Online used to be about testing and extending the limits of the sandbox, providing challenging new things to do, more complexity to master, new reasons to HTFU. Eve was a work of art, with CCP creating an increasingly sophisticated dystopian image of a future society and letting it play out in the interactions of players with the environment and with each other. There was an artistic concept, a vision behind it all. To judge by his recent ideas, that vision doesn't interest Rise in the slightest. In fact, I doubt he has ever understood it. This new "improvement" is like a painter deciding to offer people $5 to look at his painting. If the painting was at all good, people would look at it without having to be given special incentives. But that's all beyond Rise. All he can imagine is offering carrots. It will make more people log in each day, so it must be good, right? In my view that's an admission of total intellectual bankrupcy. In any case, my sub comes up for renewal in the summer. Or not. Currently more likely not. As people have pointed out in doubt this is rises idea he just got stuck being the messenger I would look more to someone like seagull to put your blame onto Citadel worm hole tax
Jeremiah Saken The Fall of Leviathan 528	Posted - 2016.04.12 06:58:18 - [1201] - Quote This whole thing will end in XP/SP grind soon. One step at a time. First SP trading, now rewards for logging. Next step xp boost for playing at least 3 hours. Let's face it. Players are creating content in sandbox (if EvE is still sandbox?). If they are not online because they passively gaining XP/SP it's bad for the business. Problem is if game is not entertaning there is not enough high reward to encourage players to log in. Rise do you really think giving 3 650 000 SP = 4 900 000 000 ISK at current prices to be hardcore gameplay? Undock, warp to anomaly, shoot rat, dock. If you think this is good proposal I don't want to know what you guys baking with tribute system... "(...) I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas (...)" "Here in the garden of the arcane delights dark shadows overwhelm us and and we become blind..."
Lugh Crow-Slave 1888	Posted - 2016.04.12 07:09:14 - [1202] - Quote Jeremiah Saken wrote: This whole thing will end in XP/SP grind soon. One step at a time. First SP trading, now rewards for logging. Next step xp boost for playing at least 3 hours. Let's face it. Players are creating content in sandbox (if EvE is still sandbox?). If they are not online because they passively gaining XP/SP it's bad for the business. Problem is if game is not entertaning there is not enough high reward to encourage players to log in. Rise do you really think giving 3 650 000 SP = 4 900 000 000 ISK at current prices to be hardcore gameplay? Undock, warp to anomaly, shoot rat, dock. If you think this is good proposal I don't want to know what you guys baking with tribute system... Don't forget this is just the first daily the op dais they ate planning to add more so it's much more than 3 650 000 Citadel worm hole tax
Demica Diaz SE-1 294	Posted - 2016.04.12 07:12:32 - [1203] - Quote CCP Rise wrote: Why Dailies? So first lets talk a little history. EVE had a daily logon incentive for most of it's existence: the 24 hour skill queue limit. Back in Phoebe, we removed those limitations. Now, at the time, we were of two minds internally. We didn't like the experience around being punished for not logging in to update your queue, but also knew that some of those logins might be leading to meaningful gameplay and we shouldn't lightly let go of them. We leaned to the side of a better experience and removed the limitations, hoping that the logins we were generating were fairly empty, rarely leading to more actual activity in the universe. Well, it turns out we were wrong about that. Now, with before and after data we can see that making it into the client is a huge step towards real activity, even if the reason for logging in in the first place seems artificial. So this leads us to where we are now, attempting to find ways to create more logins that also don't feel like such a punishment as the skill queue limitations did. This may not turn out to be the perfect alternative but that's what we're looking for. Then perhaps CCP needs to look at what makes people not wanting to log into game in the first place? I can tell you that from personal experience sometimes I run out of ideas to do stuff in EVE. What left then is scripted and very dull and plain activities aka missions, can hacking, ect. Then for people who have enough or just dont care about ISK have basicly no incentive to log in after they entered "cool down on ideas" phase. Reason I am against dailies is simply because in the long run they will burn out player. Sometimes to point that they will just not going to log in no matter what incentive and leave the game. Because in the end. Playing game for fun and giggles isnt thats all what games should be? And if game simply isnt fun then perhaps working on that should be focus and not on carrot that will keep that horse running for another mile.
baltec1 Bat Country Pandemic Legion 17553	Posted - 2016.04.12 07:15:32 - [1204] - Quote Sgt Ocker wrote: True as that may be. Think of what Eve would be like if CCP found a way to appeal to the general and largest game playing market, the 14 to 20 year old's. Opportunities and the such (dailies) are not much more than marketing tools used by companies to attract not only existing players to log in but new players to join in. SWG tried to target that group and lost 90% of their population in months. That group doesn't exist and changing core concepts of the game to try and chase them will only alienate the current players.
baltec1 Bat Country Pandemic Legion 17553	Posted - 2016.04.12 07:20:01 - [1205] - Quote Luscius Uta wrote: No I'm not, how did you come to that conclusion? I think that logging once per day to kill a single NPC is a grinding chore and just because I'm okay with CCP rewarding people who log in everyday doesn't mean that I wouldn't prefer if this system was done in a way that doesn't reward menial tasks. And people who are not logged on play the game? LOL - maybe in few rare cases, like coalition leaders. It's the number of logged players that keeps the game alive, not the number of someone's forum posts. Just like people who mererly play skill queue online don't contribute anything to the game. How will the thousands of supercap and titan pilots get this sp "reward" every day?
Sabriz Adoudel Move along there is nothing here 5777	Posted - 2016.04.12 07:23:35 - [1206] - Quote Without going through 1202 posts, has this stupid idea been reversed yet? Didn't we just recently get rid of the previous 'log in everyday or fall behind in SP' feature, the 24 hour skill queue limit? And now some fool wants to bring it back? If you want an incentive to get people to log in to do PVE (which isn't a bad idea in itself), how about converting your highest bounty tick for the day into bonus CONCORD LP via some calculation? That will be an incentive to undock a PVE ship daily without being a 'Play EVE this way, or fall behind' mechanic. Maybe not CONCORD, but maybe LP that are suited to the area of space you were ratting in. That might be even better. I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com Sabriz's Rule: "Any time someone argues for a game change claiming it is a quality of life change, the change is actually a game balance change".
Erihn Sabrovich 5	Posted - 2016.04.12 07:31:43 - [1207] - Quote Jeremiah Saken wrote: This whole thing will end in XP/SP grind soon. One step at a time. First SP trading, now rewards for logging. Next step xp boost for playing at least 3 hours. Let's face it. Players are creating content in sandbox (if EvE is still sandbox?). If they are not online because they passively gaining XP/SP it's bad for the business. Problem is if game is not entertaning there is not enough high reward to encourage players to log in. The problem is that players DON'T CREATE content... Some player groupe organizing a PvP raid is no content... New content is about - new ships - new structures - new modules (or module changes) - new game mechanics - new missions - new exploration sites ... To have players creating content in a sandbox, you'd need to have people able to upload textures, 3D models, to create items, ... (a little like what you can find in "2nd life" or in the old MUSH/MUX games). I think that new content (not only for high-level players/corps, but also for people ranging from the miner to the PvE solo'er) would be the best idea to get people login... Way better than dailies... Somehow, the only people who don't really care about content are the PvP'er... they only need targets... But EVE's mechanics are such that other people are required (else PvP'ers would fall short of ships/modules). Mixing active and passive character development is not really a problem... As some older players already pointed, SP are not so important... But I think that there should really be enough way to get SP to be sure that people WON'T BE ABLE TO DO THEM ALL... If there is only one way, which only requires little time daily (or weekly,...), people may feel compelled to do it... If they are no way to do them all, people will do what they want... There may be some crazy people who will try to "optimize" by doing all of them... but they won't be the common case. 1 rat daily is not a bad idea... Miners can do it, explorer can do it, PvE'er can do it (they both already do it), PvP'er can do it, beginners and older players can do it, ... the only people which would have to get out of their ways are traders, industrialists and scammers... But I think that there should be many other ways... why not include things like T2 research, jumping in at least X systems, starting at least X jobs (or having at least X different production task running), scanning X signatures and many other things... As I said, there should be enough of these to be sure that a single character can't do them all...
Ria Nieyli 43381	Posted - 2016.04.12 07:35:44 - [1208] - Quote Rain6639 wrote: Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Rain6639 wrote: my point is a daily 10k SP carrot is a buff to null sec not a buff to anything its a nerf to freedom dude. how do you think I feel about chasing entosis nodes. "slang" is shortened language for "shortened language"
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 17631	Posted - 2016.04.12 07:38:15 - [1209] - Quote CCP Rise wrote: Okay, let's see if I can provide some context for our decision to add daily opportunities to eve and maybe answer some of your bigger questions. Why Dailies? So first lets talk a little history. EVE had a daily logon incentive for most of it's existence: the 24 hour skill queue limit. Back in Phoebe, we removed those limitations. Now, at the time, we were of two minds internally. We didn't like the experience around being punished for not logging in to update your queue, but also knew that some of those logins might be leading to meaningful gameplay and we shouldn't lightly let go of them. We leaned to the side of a better experience and removed the limitations, hoping that the logins we were generating were fairly empty, rarely leading to more actual activity in the universe. Well, it turns out we were wrong about that. Now, with before and after data we can see that making it into the client is a huge step towards real activity, even if the reason for logging in in the first place seems artificial. So this leads us to where we are now, attempting to find ways to create more logins that also don't feel like such a punishment as the skill queue limitations did. This may not turn out to be the perfect alternative but that's what we're looking for. At the time the skillqueue was introduced, CCP said, quite correctly in my opinion, that they wanted to make EVE a game that peeople logged in to because they wanted to, not because they'd lose out on skillpoints if they didn't. Evidently this ambition has now been abandoned. What a shame. "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
baltec1 Bat Country Pandemic Legion 17559	Posted - 2016.04.12 07:38:16 - [1210] - Quote Erihn Sabrovich wrote: New content is about - new ships - new structures - new modules (or module changes) - new game mechanics ... That's tools not content=ƒÿë
Lugh Crow-Slave 1890	Posted - 2016.04.12 07:39:23 - [1211] - Quote Erihn Sabrovich wrote: Jeremiah Saken wrote: This whole thing will end in XP/SP grind soon. One step at a time. First SP trading, now rewards for logging. Next step xp boost for playing at least 3 hours. Let's face it. Players are creating content in sandbox (if EvE is still sandbox?). If they are not online because they passively gaining XP/SP it's bad for the business. Problem is if game is not entertaning there is not enough high reward to encourage players to log in. The problem is that players DON'T CREATE content... Some player groupe organizing a PvP raid is no content... New content is about - new ships - new structures - new modules (or module changes) - new game mechanics - new missions - new exploration sites ... To have players creating content in a sandbox, you'd need to have people able to upload textures, 3D models, to create items, ... (a little like what you can find in "2nd life" or in the old MUSH/MUX games). I think that new content (not only for high-level players/corps, but also for people ranging from the miner to the PvE solo'er) would be the best idea to get people login... Way better than dailies... Somehow, the only people who don't really care about content are the PvP'er... they only need targets... But EVE's mechanics are such that other people are required (else PvP'ers would fall short of ships/modules). Mixing active and passive character development is not really a problem... As some older players already pointed, SP are not so important... But I think that there should really be enough way to get SP to be sure that people WON'T BE ABLE TO DO THEM ALL... If there is only one way, which only requires little time daily (or weekly,...), people may feel compelled to do it... If they are no way to do them all, people will do what they want... There may be some crazy people who will try to "optimize" by doing all of them... but they won't be the common case. 1 rat daily is not a bad idea... Miners can do it, explorer can do it, PvE'er can do it (they both already do it), PvP'er can do it, beginners and older players can do it, ... the only people which would have to get out of their ways are traders, industrialists and scammers... But I think that there should be many other ways... why not include things like T2 research, jumping in at least X systems, starting at least X jobs (or having at least X different production task running), scanning X signatures and many other things... As I said, there should be enough of these to be sure that a single character can't do them all... Poe's law is hitting so hard with this post Citadel worm hole tax
Lugh Crow-Slave 1890	Posted - 2016.04.12 07:40:10 - [1212] - Quote Ria Nieyli wrote: Rain6639 wrote: Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Rain6639 wrote: my point is a daily 10k SP carrot is a buff to null sec not a buff to anything its a nerf to freedom dude. how do you think I feel about chasing entosis nodes. You wouldn't have to chase entosis nodes if the FW system was implemented in sov null. ... yes I would i just wouldn't have to put an entosis on my ship Citadel worm hole tax
Ria Nieyli 43382	Posted - 2016.04.12 07:41:54 - [1213] - Quote Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Ria Nieyli wrote: Rain6639 wrote: Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Rain6639 wrote: my point is a daily 10k SP carrot is a buff to null sec not a buff to anything its a nerf to freedom dude. how do you think I feel about chasing entosis nodes. You wouldn't have to chase entosis nodes if the FW system was implemented in sov null. ... yes I would i just wouldn't have to put an entosis on my ship The FW system has a proven track record. It works, and thousands of people engage in it willingly every day. There are no downsides to implementing it in null. "slang" is shortened language for "shortened language"
Jeremiah Saken The Fall of Leviathan 530	Posted - 2016.04.12 07:43:56 - [1214] - Quote Erihn Sabrovich wrote: Some player groupe organizing a PvP raid is no content... Then you have no idea what sandbox means. World War Bee is biggest player created content in months. "(...) I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas (...)" "Here in the garden of the arcane delights dark shadows overwhelm us and and we become blind..."
Lugh Crow-Slave 1891	Posted - 2016.04.12 07:48:52 - [1215] - Quote Ria Nieyli wrote: The FW system has a proven track record. It works, and thousands of people engage in it willingly every day. There are no downsides to implementing it in null. The only difference is it forces me to use a mixed fleet rather than rewarding that I do and the system is always vulnerable Citadel worm hole tax
Lugh Crow-Slave 1891	Posted - 2016.04.12 07:49:37 - [1216] - Quote Jeremiah Saken wrote: Erihn Sabrovich wrote: Some player groupe organizing a PvP raid is no content... Then you have no idea what sandbox means. World War Bee is biggest player created content in months. No no you see that's no content it's just players doing things Citadel worm hole tax
Charles Surge Amarrian Vengeance Team Amarrica 23	Posted - 2016.04.12 07:50:58 - [1217] - Quote The reward should be on log-in, especially since the "tribute" system will be removed from "daily" stuff. Many insanely active players do not shoot rats.
Jeremiah Saken The Fall of Leviathan 530	Posted - 2016.04.12 07:54:55 - [1218] - Quote Is there a mechanism that will log off inactive players from the server? Like in D3, 15 minutes AFK and log off. "(...) I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas (...)" "Here in the garden of the arcane delights dark shadows overwhelm us and and we become blind..."
Lugh Crow-Slave 1891	Posted - 2016.04.12 07:56:39 - [1219] - Quote Jeremiah Saken wrote: Is there a mechanism that will log off inactive players from the server? Like in D3, 15 minutes AFK and log off. God those ate some of the most irritating things in games Citadel worm hole tax
Tomika Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 25	Posted - 2016.04.12 07:57:34 - [1220] - Quote All these posts even though CCP is just gonna go ahead and implement the changes anyway
Ravcharas Infinite Point Violence of Action. 469	Posted - 2016.04.12 07:59:12 - [1221] - Quote baltec1 wrote: How will the thousands of supercap and titan pilots get this sp "reward" every day? In style
Miss 'Assassination' Cayman CK-0FF Violence of Action. 82	Posted - 2016.04.12 08:00:20 - [1222] - Quote Tomika wrote: All these posts even though CCP is just gonna go ahead and implement the changes anyway Then we can just point back to all these posts as our reason for quitting.
Mr Floydy Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork 318	Posted - 2016.04.12 08:12:05 - [1223] - Quote Please reconsider this idea Rise... Are you not noticing the amount of abuse you are likely to get at Fanfest next week should this idea not be scrapped?
Lugh Crow-Slave 1896	Posted - 2016.04.12 08:15:19 - [1224] - Quote Mr Floydy wrote: Please reconsider this idea Rise... Are you not noticing the amount of abuse you are likely to get at Fanfest next week should this idea not be scrapped? O.o that sounds a bit threat-ish Citadel worm hole tax
Mr Floydy Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork 318	Posted - 2016.04.12 08:16:52 - [1225] - Quote Yeh I guess it does a bit :o (no hard feelings Rise... it's just a terribly thought out idea)
Lugh Crow-Slave 1896	Posted - 2016.04.12 08:21:30 - [1226] - Quote Mr Floydy wrote: Yeh I guess it does a bit :o (no hard feelings Rise... it's just a terribly thought out idea) LoL And no it's a well thought out idea and will do just what they want it just sucks for the players Citadel worm hole tax
NovaCat13 Seymourus and Co. 148	Posted - 2016.04.12 08:22:03 - [1227] - Quote No thanks
Circumstantial Evidence 291	Posted - 2016.04.12 08:26:41 - [1228] - Quote "Don't shoot the messenger" - new features go through lots of meetings and arguments, before we hear about them here. It's better to use the collective phrase "CCP please..." ;-)
Lugh Crow-Slave 1896	Posted - 2016.04.12 08:31:57 - [1229] - Quote NovaCat13 wrote: No thanks Please let ccp see this Citadel worm hole tax
Mr Floydy Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork 318	Posted - 2016.04.12 08:32:00 - [1230] - Quote Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Mr Floydy wrote: Yeh I guess it does a bit :o (no hard feelings Rise... it's just a terribly thought out idea) And no it's a well thought out idea and will do just what they want it just sucks for the players It clearly isn't well thought out, there wouldn't be 60+ pages of people saying "this idea is awful" and picking it to pieces. Forcing people to login for an arbitrary task is stupid. If it was open to all sorts of content rather than being just shooting a red cross daily it would actually drive some gameplay. The idea as it stands achieves nothing but pissing off a large amount of the playerbase...
Lugh Crow-Slave 1896	Posted - 2016.04.12 08:36:24 - [1231] - Quote Mr Floydy wrote: Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Mr Floydy wrote: Yeh I guess it does a bit :o (no hard feelings Rise... it's just a terribly thought out idea) And no it's a well thought out idea and will do just what they want it just sucks for the players It clearly isn't well thought out, there wouldn't be 60+ pages of people saying "this idea is awful" and picking it to pieces. Forcing people to login for an arbitrary task is stupid. If it was open to all sorts of content rather than being just shooting a red cross daily it would actually drive some gameplay. The idea as it stands achieves nothing but pissing off a large amount of the playerbase... No it mean ccp thought this out a well thought out idea/=a good idea And it doesn't matter what task they make us do it will be forced and arbitrary Citadel worm hole tax
Ria Nieyli 43384	Posted - 2016.04.12 08:43:35 - [1232] - Quote - "slang" is shortened language for "shortened language"
Jeremiah Saken The Fall of Leviathan 533	Posted - 2016.04.12 08:43:36 - [1233] - Quote Mr Floydy wrote: It clearly isn't well thought out, there wouldn't be 60+ pages of people saying "this idea is awful" and picking it to pieces. Forcing people to login for an arbitrary task is stupid. If it was open to all sorts of content rather than being just shooting a red cross daily it would actually drive some gameplay. The idea as it stands achieves nothing but pissing off a large amount of the playerbase... Same was with skill trading. Implemented. Same will be with this. Actually I would go further. Increased SP gain by logged players. Times are changing. Players are getting older, new blood don't come by broad stream, "Hardcore Rise" is thinking he's creating sandbox environment... "(...) I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas (...)" "Here in the garden of the arcane delights dark shadows overwhelm us and and we become blind..."
Lugh Crow-Slave 1896	Posted - 2016.04.12 08:55:27 - [1234] - Quote Jeremiah Saken wrote: Mr Floydy wrote: It clearly isn't well thought out, there wouldn't be 60+ pages of people saying "this idea is awful" and picking it to pieces. Forcing people to login for an arbitrary task is stupid. If it was open to all sorts of content rather than being just shooting a red cross daily it would actually drive some gameplay. The idea as it stands achieves nothing but pissing off a large amount of the playerbase... Same was with skill trading. Implemented. Same will be with this. Actually I would go further. Increased SP gain by logged players. Times are changing. Players are getting older, new blood don't come by broad stream, "Hardcore Rise" is thinking he's creating sandbox environment... Telling me what to do and forcing me to play when I don't want is not a sand box is a job Citadel worm hole tax
Ben Ishikela 67	Posted - 2016.04.12 09:05:53 - [1235] - Quote outragous! --- well, let me think about it. --- 10.000 skill points. That would be the same as currently ca 17.5MIsk (= 700Misk/400kSP10kSP ) for using skill injectors. That is ca one Relic/Data Site. How many PvE Sites? So what about an increase in Bounty for the first rat shot? Highly exploitable, right? --- To further add on this:--- We had given numbers like 1.6Toons per Player. And older Players have way more. Therefor thats 1.6 times the job of just undocking warping to a npc, killing it (making the killing shot or just participate), warping back and dock up. Some would have to do this 10times. if someone had like more than 17.5 milion income per CharacterChangeTime on one character, then he wouldnt bother. CarrierRatting still a thing after expansion? Also this is ca.50mil per day per account. Payment after 50days of "activity". Dayly activity, hmmm? What about all the other Needed things that need to be done that are not measurable and mentioned above several times (like recruitment/scouting). Well, i guess one could just warp to a belt and shoot something directly after logging in and then sort his stuff. or can he? In Jita/etc he cannot. (well he can, but its more time consuming. rising the time-cost) In a competitive environment like eve that would be a cost of 17.5mi per day to have a character doing neccessary stuff without combat capabilities. You dont have that step in other MMOs where something like it is implemented. ===> Or do you want to introduce a mechanic that puts negative pressure on population density? Then Say So, So We Can Help To Come Up With An Idea!!!* +1 for more economic gameplay opportunities and meaningful choices. (like autopilot to zero, convoy NPCs (noJF), asteroid spawn distribution metrics, ....
Jeremiah Saken The Fall of Leviathan 533	Posted - 2016.04.12 09:13:12 - [1236] - Quote Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Telling me what to do and forcing me to play when I don't want is not a sand box is a job Sure but if you gain, let's say 10% more SP if are logged but without dailies is not that unacceptable imo. That's why I asked if there is a mechanism that's kicking AFK players. That way you promoting players that stay online and can do whatever they want and still don't punish unlogged (passive gaining system still an good option). Core foundation is already changed. SP can be traded. CCP will push dailies anyway. I think we need to find compromise how to reward players that logging more often in other way than mindless PvE activity. I don't like the course this game is going. I don't like SP trading. I hate dailies idea, but some devs are fixated on how many players are online. "(...) I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas (...)" "Here in the garden of the arcane delights dark shadows overwhelm us and and we become blind..."
Drago Shouna Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire 331	Posted - 2016.04.12 09:19:46 - [1237] - Quote baltec1 wrote: Erihn Sabrovich wrote: New content is about - new ships - new structures - new modules (or module changes) - new game mechanics ... That's tools not content=ƒÿë And we have enough tools ;)
Calima Arzi Risk Breakers Snuffed Out 20	Posted - 2016.04.12 09:21:52 - [1238] - Quote 10,000 skill points per toon per day. A skill injector gives 400,000 (on average) - so it's a skill injector per 40 days. One plex is worth about two skill injectors. So one plex per 80 days - call it three months. So CCP are offering skill points to the value of four plexes, per year, per character - that's twelve plex per year per account - for doing daily, repetitive, grindy tasks. Twelve plex per year is more than many of us can afford to turn down, which is the problem. If it was capped in some way - say, up to your first three million skillpoints - or less valuable - perhaps two or three plex per year - it wouldn't be an issue. The rewards are too high to ignore, but cycling through all characters every day is work, not play. Twelve plex per account per year for this? No. Sorry, no.
Lugh Crow-Slave 1899	Posted - 2016.04.12 09:27:29 - [1239] - Quote Jeremiah Saken wrote: Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Telling me what to do and forcing me to play when I don't want is not a sand box is a job Sure but if you gain, let's say 10% more SP if are logged but without dailies is not that unacceptable imo. That's why I asked if there is a mechanism that's kicking AFK players. That way you promoting players that stay online and can do whatever they want and still don't punish unlogged (passive gaining system still an good option). Core foundation is already changed. SP can be traded. CCP will push dailies anyway. I think we need to find compromise how to reward players that logging more often in other way than mindless PvE activity. I don't like the course this game is going. I don't like SP trading. I hate dailies idea, but some devs are fixated on how many players are online. That's still telling me how and how long to play I can make an impact on the game without my character being in the game Citadel worm hole tax
Lugh Crow-Slave 1899	Posted - 2016.04.12 09:29:10 - [1240] - Quote Calima Arzi wrote: 10,000 skill points per toon per day. A skill injector gives 400,000 (on average) - so it's a skill injector per 40 days. One plex is worth about two skill injectors. So one plex per 80 days - call it three months. So CCP are offering skill points to the value of four plexes, per year, per character - that's twelve plex per year per account - for doing daily, repetitive, grindy tasks. Twelve plex per year is more than many of us can afford to turn down, which is the problem. If it was capped in some way - say, up to your first three million skillpoints - or less valuable - perhaps two or three plex per year - it wouldn't be an issue. The rewards are too high to ignore, but cycling through all characters every day is work, not play. Twelve plex per account per year for this? No. Sorry, no. Lol that's just adv for those of us over 80 it's 2 injectors a month Citadel worm hole tax
Mr Floydy Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork 319	Posted - 2016.04.12 09:29:22 - [1241] - Quote Open it up for PvP kills #SPforkillingGoons
Tomika Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 25	Posted - 2016.04.12 09:38:13 - [1242] - Quote Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Telling me what to do and forcing me to play when I don't want is not a sand box is a job Putting an optional thing in the game is neither telling you what to do nor forcing you to play.
Lugh Crow-Slave 1901	Posted - 2016.04.12 09:40:56 - [1243] - Quote Tomika wrote: Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Telling me what to do and forcing me to play when I don't want is not a sand box is a job Putting an optional thing in the game is neither telling you what to do nor forcing you to play. As stated b4 what it is doesn't matter it's what it feels like that matters And loosing 10ksp a day is a hell of a way to make it feel non-optional Citadel worm hole tax
CowQueen MMXII 29	Posted - 2016.04.12 09:51:44 - [1244] - Quote Ben Ishikela wrote: outragous! --- well, let me think about it. --- 10.000 skill points. That would be the same as currently ca 17.5MIsk (= 700Misk/400kSP10kSP ) for using skill injectors. Unless you already have certain amounts of SP. My two chars with the most SP will only get 150k per injector, resulting in 2 injectors per character per month. Of course those characters don't need those SP very badly, but there are circumstances where it's nice to have some that can be distributed freely. Ben Ishikela wrote:* --- To further add on this:--- We had given numbers like 1.6Toons per Player. And older Players have way more. Therefor thats 1.6 times the job of just undocking warping to a npc, killing it (making the killing shot or just participate), warping back and dock up. Some would have to do this 10times. I am pretty sure it was 1.6 accounts per player, meaning up to 5 chars in average. And although this was mentioned before: not every character can just undock and warp to a belt - at least wormhole residents have a much harder time doing that and also some people that have their corporations war decced. Moo! Uddersucker, moo!
Tomika Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 26	Posted - 2016.04.12 09:52:42 - [1245] - Quote Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Tomika wrote: Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Telling me what to do and forcing me to play when I don't want is not a sand box is a job Putting an optional thing in the game is neither telling you what to do nor forcing you to play. As stated b4 what it is doesn't matter it's what it feels like that matters And loosing 10ksp a day is a hell of a way to make it feel non-optional Ah, so we've gone from "I am being forced" to "well it doesn't matter if we're being forced or not". So you accept that you are not actually being forced to do anything, despite what you wrote previously. There are lots of things in the game we can do optimally to gain the best results but we don't always do them because... we don't have to.
Ben Ishikela 68	Posted - 2016.04.12 09:58:54 - [1246] - Quote CowQueen MMXII wrote: Ben Ishikela wrote: outragous! --- well, let me think about it. --- 10.000 skill points. That would be the same as currently ca 17.5MIsk (= 700Misk/400kSP10kSP ) for using skill injectors. Unless you already have certain amounts of SP. My two chars with the most SP will only get 150k per injector, resulting in 2 injectors per character per month. Of course those characters don't need those SP very badly, but there are circumstances where it's nice to have some that can be distributed freely. Ben Ishikela wrote:* --- To further add on this:--- We had given numbers like 1.6Toons per Player. And older Players have way more. Therefor thats 1.6 times the job of just undocking warping to a npc, killing it (making the killing shot or just participate), warping back and dock up. Some would have to do this 10times. I am pretty sure it was 1.6 accounts per player, meaning up to 5 chars in average. And although this was mentioned before: not every character can just undock and warp to a belt - at least wormhole residents have a much harder time doing that and also some people that have their corporations war decced. Ty for fixing the holes in my argumentation. What about the conclusion though? It still persists, if not stronger. Ideas are like Seeds. I'd chop trees to start a fire.
Lugh Crow-Slave 1901	Posted - 2016.04.12 10:03:28 - [1247] - Quote Tomika wrote: Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Tomika wrote: Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Telling me what to do and forcing me to play when I don't want is not a sand box is a job Putting an optional thing in the game is neither telling you what to do nor forcing you to play. As stated b4 what it is doesn't matter it's what it feels like that matters And loosing 10ksp a day is a hell of a way to make it feel non-optional Ah, so we've gone from "I am being forced" to "well it doesn't matter if we're being forced or not". So you accept that you are not actually being forced to do anything, despite what you wrote previously. There are lots of things in the game we can do optimally to gain the best results but we don't always do them because... we don't have to. The reasons dailies work is because they make people who are not doing them feel punished that's not good for a sand box ccp should not be telling people how to play Citadel worm hole tax
baltec1 Bat Country Pandemic Legion 17563	Posted - 2016.04.12 10:09:08 - [1248] - Quote Tomika wrote: Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Telling me what to do and forcing me to play when I don't want is not a sand box is a job Putting an optional thing in the game is neither telling you what to do nor forcing you to play. It's punishing me for not logging in every day. One of the core concepts of eve is that you can train SP at the same rate no matter how much time you have to play.
Lugh Crow-Slave 1907	Posted - 2016.04.12 10:22:44 - [1249] - Quote baltec1 wrote: Tomika wrote: Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Telling me what to do and forcing me to play when I don't want is not a sand box is a job Putting an optional thing in the game is neither telling you what to do nor forcing you to play. It's punishing me for not logging in every day. One of the core concepts of eve is that you can train SP at the same rate no matter how much time you have to play. It's why you don't need to grind in eve Citadel worm hole tax
Tomika Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 27	Posted - 2016.04.12 10:23:10 - [1250] - Quote Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: The reasons dailies work is because they make people who are not doing them feel punished that's not good for a sand box ccp should not be telling people how to play I thought we agreed they are not actually telling you how to play
Tomika Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 27	Posted - 2016.04.12 10:24:15 - [1251] - Quote baltec1 wrote: It's punishing me for not logging in every day. One of the core concepts of eve is that you can train SP at the same rate no matter how much time you have to play. That ended with injectors.
Chjna the Goose Flock 26	Posted - 2016.04.12 10:24:49 - [1252] - Quote NovaCat13 wrote: No thanks This Remove T2 BPOs
Tomika Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 27	Posted - 2016.04.12 10:25:32 - [1253] - Quote Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: It's why you don't need to grind in eve Standings say hi.
Lan Wang Knights of the Posing Meat FETID 2657	Posted - 2016.04.12 10:27:14 - [1254] - Quote Tomika wrote: Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: It's why you don't need to grind in eve Standings say hi. keyword here "need" standings don't provide a benefit over anyone else FETID now recruiting pvp pilots & corporations \| lowsec pvp & piracy - Join FETID Loyalist to Angel Cartel & Serpentis
Lugh Crow-Slave 1910	Posted - 2016.04.12 10:30:28 - [1255] - Quote Tomika wrote: Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: The reasons dailies work is because they make people who are not doing them feel punished that's not good for a sand box ccp should not be telling people how to play I thought we agreed they are not actually telling you how to play No we agreed on "making" not "telling" As fir standings people have been wanting them removed for years and now that you don't need anything over 5 it's not much of a grind anymore you can get that in a day Citadel worm hole tax
Samillian Angry Mustellid Decayed Orbit 1068	Posted - 2016.04.12 10:30:50 - [1256] - Quote NovaCat13 wrote: No thanks This. NBSI shall be the whole of the Law
Kym Mena World Burning 17	Posted - 2016.04.12 10:37:15 - [1257] - Quote Tomika wrote: Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: The reasons dailies work is because they make people who are not doing them feel punished that's not good for a sand box ccp should not be telling people how to play I thought we agreed they are not actually telling you how to play Nooo... Of course they're not. They are only saying that you can keep playing the way you want, doing the things you do, but if you do this one little thing that they want you to do they will give you 3.98 million SP over the course of a year. Whether you think the SP, specifically, is a problem or not, you can't argue that it was chosen because it was a valuable commodity. This makes this gimmick, at best, bribery to log in. Who doesn't love some good ole' fashioned bribery being used to lever them into doing things? If Eve was going to remain the sandbox we all know and love then they would be looking for ways to provide us with the tools and environment in which to continue creating some of the most unique content in gaming. Sadly. they are, admittedly, taking the lazy way out to boost numbers and gain a false sense of accomplishment and game health so that they can play their fiddle while Rome burns. By simplifying Eve and changing the landscape of the sandbox into a real estate development, it seems as if the Eve we all fled to when other games bored us or lost our trust and respect is riding into the sunset. I can only hope that the light of our torches brings Enlightenment to those who have strayed from The Path up in the land of Ice and Fire. (The underlined portion is notable in this case. With the rapport that has been established between the Eve community and the Devs, such a complete disregard for our feedback as the Devs prepare to tell us what is good for us is completely out of line and unacceptable.)
Shallanna Yassavi Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 120	Posted - 2016.04.12 10:49:43 - [1258] - Quote Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Tippia wrote: Erihn Sabrovich wrote: [quote]A "normal" player, with only ONE account, will have to grind it's way to be able to fly higher hulls. No. Largely because no such grind exists. Yet Exhibit A: The skill injector market. It exists. A signature :o
Sabriz Adoudel Move along there is nothing here 5779	Posted - 2016.04.12 10:50:44 - [1259] - Quote Lan Wang wrote: Tomika wrote: Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: It's why you don't need to grind in eve Standings say hi. keyword here "need" standings don't provide a benefit over anyone else Standings are absolutely mandatory to participate in trading at present (in any competitive way). I don't flip PLEX often, but when I do it is in Dodixie (where I have outstanding standings). I would lose ISK on all of those transactions if I carried them out in Jita. Same goes for Marauders and premium deadspace modules. I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com Sabriz's Rule: "Any time someone argues for a game change claiming it is a quality of life change, the change is actually a game balance change".
Lugh Crow-Slave 1910	Posted - 2016.04.12 10:55:49 - [1260] - Quote Sabriz Adoudel wrote: Lan Wang wrote: Tomika wrote: Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: It's why you don't need to grind in eve Standings say hi. keyword here "need" standings don't provide a benefit over anyone else Standings are absolutely mandatory to participate in trading at present (in any competitive way). I don't flip PLEX often, but when I do it is in Dodixie (where I have outstanding standings). I would lose ISK on all of those transactions if I carried them out in Jita. Same goes for Marauders and premium deadspace modules. Good thing you can do that in a citadel now Citadel worm hole tax
Miss 'Assassination' Cayman CK-0FF Violence of Action. 84	Posted - 2016.04.12 11:03:58 - [1261] - Quote Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Tomika wrote: Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: The reasons dailies work is because they make people who are not doing them feel punished that's not good for a sand box ccp should not be telling people how to play I thought we agreed they are not actually telling you how to play No we agreed on "making" not "telling" As fir standings people have been wanting them removed for years and now that you don't need anything over 5 it's not much of a grind anymore you can get that in a day Level 5 missions say otherwise. Even so, I have over 7 standings on several characters and they only took 2-3 days each.
Lugh Crow-Slave 1911	Posted - 2016.04.12 11:07:22 - [1262] - Quote Miss 'Assassination' Cayman wrote: Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Tomika wrote: Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: The reasons dailies work is because they make people who are not doing them feel punished that's not good for a sand box ccp should not be telling people how to play I thought we agreed they are not actually telling you how to play No we agreed on "making" not "telling" As fir standings people have been wanting them removed for years and now that you don't need anything over 5 it's not much of a grind anymore you can get that in a day Level 5 missions say otherwise. Even so, I have over 7 standings on several characters and they only took 2-3 days each. Lol for some reason I was thinking level 5s took 5.0 Citadel worm hole tax
Miss 'Assassination' Cayman CK-0FF Violence of Action. 86	Posted - 2016.04.12 11:08:10 - [1263] - Quote Sabriz Adoudel wrote: Lan Wang wrote: Tomika wrote: Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: It's why you don't need to grind in eve Standings say hi. keyword here "need" standings don't provide a benefit over anyone else Standings are absolutely mandatory to participate in trading at present (in any competitive way). I don't flip PLEX often, but when I do it is in Dodixie (where I have outstanding standings). I would lose ISK on all of those transactions if I carried them out in Jita. Same goes for Marauders and premium deadspace modules. I have to disagree there. Sure, standings are required to make a profit on the same few items hundreds of other traders are competing on, but I've had no trouble making a fair bit of isk station trading in Jita on a character with no corp standing and -0.09 faction standing. It's just a matter of choosing slightly less obvious items.
Shallanna Yassavi Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 120	Posted - 2016.04.12 11:13:00 - [1264] - Quote Erihn Sabrovich wrote: Jeremiah Saken wrote: This whole thing will end in XP/SP grind soon. One step at a time. First SP trading, now rewards for logging. Next step xp boost for playing at least 3 hours. Let's face it. Players are creating content in sandbox (if EvE is still sandbox?). If they are not online because they passively gaining XP/SP it's bad for the business. Problem is if game is not entertaning there is not enough high reward to encourage players to log in. The problem is that players DON'T CREATE content... Some player groupe organizing a PvP raid is no content... New content is about - new ships - new structures - new modules (or module changes) - new game mechanics - new missions - new exploration sites ... To have players creating content in a sandbox, you'd need to have people able to upload textures, 3D models, to create items, ... (a little like what you can find in "2nd life" or in the old MUSH/MUX games). I think that new content (not only for high-level players/corps, but also for people ranging from the miner to the PvE solo'er) would be the best idea to get people login... Way better than dailies... Somehow, the only people who don't really care about content are the PvP'er... they only need targets... But EVE's mechanics are such that other people are required (else PvP'ers would fall short of ships/modules). Mixing active and passive character development is not really a problem... As some older players already pointed, SP are not so important... But I think that there should really be enough way to get SP to be sure that people WON'T BE ABLE TO DO THEM ALL... If there is only one way, which only requires little time daily (or weekly,...), people may feel compelled to do it... If they are no way to do them all, people will do what they want... There may be some crazy people who will try to "optimize" by doing all of them... but they won't be the common case. 1 rat daily is not a bad idea... Miners can do it, explorer can do it, PvE'er can do it (they both already do it), PvP'er can do it, beginners and older players can do it, ... the only people which would have to get out of their ways are traders, industrialists and scammers... But I think that there should be many other ways... why not include things like T2 research, jumping in at least X systems, starting at least X jobs (or having at least X different production task running), scanning X signatures and many other things... As I said, there should be enough of these to be sure that a single character can't do them all... Someone has obviously never poked at a tangled and highly unstable web of diplomacy. That is how we as players create massively multiplayer content. We fight over stuff, make and break alliances, win and lose wars. And there's the whole logistical side of it. A big part of the citadel expansion is to make a huge fight over who gets to be the next Jita. If there's not a diplomatic solution, there are going to be a lot of fireworks. Making it so we won't be able to do everything to get SP means a lot longer grind for all the "bonus." The whole point of a sandbox is for us to be able to do what we want, when we want, how we want, and the whole point of making skill gain passive was to avoid exactly the kind of "must grind out this stuff for XP" monster that's apparently being stitched together as we speak. A signature :o
Ben Ishikela 69	Posted - 2016.04.12 11:17:45 - [1265] - Quote Tomika wrote: baltec1 wrote: It's punishing me for not logging in every day. One of the core concepts of eve is that you can train SP at the same rate no matter how much time you have to play. That ended with injectors. To be exact, it ended with Character Basar. But then again, there was something before that. Ideas are like Seeds. I'd chop trees to start a fire.
Lugh Crow-Slave 1911	Posted - 2016.04.12 11:22:45 - [1266] - Quote Ben Ishikela wrote: Tomika wrote: baltec1 wrote: It's punishing me for not logging in every day. One of the core concepts of eve is that you can train SP at the same rate no matter how much time you have to play. That ended with injectors. To be exact, it ended with Character Basar. But then again, there was something before that. At least the bizarre was a lessor of two evils used to stop illegal character trading And at least injectors don't have the same physiological component to them (however I still belive injectors were bad) Citadel worm hole tax
Ben Ishikela 69	Posted - 2016.04.12 11:27:30 - [1267] - Quote Miss 'Assassination' Cayman wrote: Sabriz Adoudel wrote: Lan Wang wrote: Tomika wrote: Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: It's why you don't need to grind in eve Standings say hi. keyword here "need" standings don't provide a benefit over anyone else Standings are absolutely mandatory to participate in trading at present (in any competitive way). I don't flip PLEX often, but when I do it is in Dodixie (where I have outstanding standings). I would lose ISK on all of those transactions if I carried them out in Jita. Same goes for Marauders and premium deadspace modules. I have to disagree there. Sure, standings are required to make a profit on the same few items hundreds of other traders are competing on, but I've had no trouble making a fair bit of isk station trading in Jita on a character with no corp standing and -0.09 faction standing. It's just a matter of choosing slightly less obvious items. Id like to back that up: In eve there is still the descicion: Grind <-> Smart. .... or both? But nothing mandatory really. It just helps. Does it really? Because not having it puts pressure on every trade i do. Therefor it has a cost. Therefor i need to be even smarter if i have no standings. ohoh what now? Ideas are like Seeds. I'd chop trees to start a fire.
Rain6639 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3859	Posted - 2016.04.12 11:27:43 - [1268] - Quote Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Ben Ishikela wrote: Tomika wrote: baltec1 wrote: It's punishing me for not logging in every day. One of the core concepts of eve is that you can train SP at the same rate no matter how much time you have to play. That ended with injectors. To be exact, it ended with Character Basar. But then again, there was something before that. At least the bizarre was a lessor of two evils used to stop illegal character trading And at least injectors don't have the same physiological component to them (however I still belive injectors were bad) I don't know if you can call them bad but it was a fundamental shift.
Mizhara Del'thul Kyn'aldrnari 725	Posted - 2016.04.12 11:40:01 - [1269] - Quote Miss 'Assassination' Cayman wrote: Sabriz Adoudel wrote: Lan Wang wrote: Tomika wrote: Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: It's why you don't need to grind in eve Standings say hi. keyword here "need" standings don't provide a benefit over anyone else Standings are absolutely mandatory to participate in trading at present (in any competitive way). I don't flip PLEX often, but when I do it is in Dodixie (where I have outstanding standings). I would lose ISK on all of those transactions if I carried them out in Jita. Same goes for Marauders and premium deadspace modules. I have to disagree there. Sure, standings are required to make a profit on the same few items hundreds of other traders are competing on, but I've had no trouble making a fair bit of isk station trading in Jita on a character with no corp standing and -0.09 faction standing. It's just a matter of choosing slightly less obvious items. Yup. Try the 5k-1b challenge, it's not all that difficult. Made an alt with nothing to their name but 5k isk, no standings, no sp. Go to Jita, start trading until hitting 1b, in less than a month. Standings aren't absolutely mandatory, nor are even the trading skills. Both of those just open up new avenues of trade and increase volume. Took me less than three weeks to hit the 1 billion mark on that fresh untrained alt, who never undocked apart from that initial run to Jita the first day. Somewhat off topic, but since it came up...
baltec1 Bat Country Pandemic Legion 17572	Posted - 2016.04.12 11:48:04 - [1270] - Quote Tomika wrote: baltec1 wrote: It's punishing me for not logging in every day. One of the core concepts of eve is that you can train SP at the same rate no matter how much time you have to play. That ended with injectors. Those still need to be trained and are bought with isk which I can earn while logged off.
Tomika Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 27	Posted - 2016.04.12 11:52:12 - [1271] - Quote Lan Wang wrote: Tomika wrote: Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: It's why you don't need to grind in eve Standings say hi. keyword here "need" standings don't provide a benefit over anyone else You don't "need" to gain 10k extra SP a day either.
Shallanna Yassavi Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 120	Posted - 2016.04.12 11:54:46 - [1272] - Quote baltec1 wrote: Tomika wrote: baltec1 wrote: It's punishing me for not logging in every day. One of the core concepts of eve is that you can train SP at the same rate no matter how much time you have to play. That ended with injectors. Those still need to be trained and are bought with isk which I can earn while logged off. By someone else. What I see when I look at the market are skill points I can buy with money. That makes it a very direct buy-XP-for-kredits (which we do grind out) mechanism, even if the efficiency is a lot better on plex or a multiple pilot certificate. A signature :o
Lan Wang Knights of the Posing Meat FETID 2660	Posted - 2016.04.12 11:55:13 - [1273] - Quote Tomika wrote: Lan Wang wrote: Tomika wrote: Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: It's why you don't need to grind in eve Standings say hi. keyword here "need" standings don't provide a benefit over anyone else You don't "need" to gain 10k extra SP a day either. standings arent relevant to me, sp is relevant to everyone FETID now recruiting pvp pilots & corporations \| lowsec pvp & piracy - Join FETID Loyalist to Angel Cartel & Serpentis
Mister Ripley Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde 187	Posted - 2016.04.12 11:56:26 - [1274] - Quote I have ~100M SP so I get 150k SP per Injector. To buy the same amount of SP dailies would provide in a year costs me ~16B ISK. That's ~45M ISK per day. I can earn that by playing approx one hour (with logging in, warping around, finding rats, killing rats, selling loot, etc). 10k SP per day can be earned in 5 minutes (maybe even less). So time wise it's: Playing 365 hours (~15 days) versus playing 30 hours (1 day, 6 hours). Per year. Do you really think, this is not punishing normal play styles compared to daily grind monkey play style? You can think what you want about skill injectors, but the diminishing returns are there for a reason. The more SP you have, the less incentive you have to use them. Dailies reverse this. 10k SP per day gives me 150k SP (worth 625M ISK) for 75 minutes playtime. Please show me the activity that gives 500M ISK per hour... And all this for logging in every day like a zombie and do the same thing, again and again and again and again..
Terrorfrodo Renegade Hobbits for Mordor 721	Posted - 2016.04.12 11:59:00 - [1275] - Quote baltec1 wrote: Tomika wrote: baltec1 wrote: It's punishing me for not logging in every day. One of the core concepts of eve is that you can train SP at the same rate no matter how much time you have to play. That ended with injectors. Those still need to be trained and are bought with isk which I can earn while logged off. If you earn ISK while logged off than whatever that is you're doing should be nerfed :p Mizhara Del'thul wrote: Yup. Try the 5k-1b challenge, it's not all that difficult. Made an alt with nothing to their name but 5k isk, no standings, no sp. Go to Jita, start trading until hitting 1b, in less than a month. Standings aren't absolutely mandatory, nor are even the trading skills. Both of those just open up new avenues of trade and increase volume. Took me less than three weeks to hit the 1 billion mark on that fresh untrained alt, who never undocked apart from that initial run to Jita the first day. Somewhat off topic, but since it came up... I wonder how many hours of mind-numbingly boring 'playing' that took. And if traders dont need SP to trade effectively, then they dont miss out on anything if they ignore this new feature, right? .
baltec1 Bat Country Pandemic Legion 17572	Posted - 2016.04.12 12:03:12 - [1276] - Quote Terrorfrodo wrote: If you earn ISK while logged off than whatever that is you're doing should be nerfed :p It's called industry.
Lugh Crow-Slave 1912	Posted - 2016.04.12 12:08:58 - [1277] - Quote Terrorfrodo wrote: baltec1 wrote: Tomika wrote: baltec1 wrote: It's punishing me for not logging in every day. One of the core concepts of eve is that you can train SP at the same rate no matter how much time you have to play. That ended with injectors. Those still need to be trained and are bought with isk which I can earn while logged off. If you earn ISK while logged off than whatever that is you're doing should be nerfed :p why just because i'm logged off doesn't mean im not playing and there are a lot of ways to make isk while logged off market orders pi alliance/corp/logistics management moon mining the list goes on Citadel worm hole tax
Mister Ripley Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde 188	Posted - 2016.04.12 12:09:57 - [1278] - Quote baltec1 wrote: Terrorfrodo wrote: If you earn ISK while logged off than whatever that is you're doing should be nerfed :p It's called industry. I wouldn't say it's "earning ISK while logged off". The actual industry part is getting the materials and setting everything up and then selling it. The time to build is just a cap to regulate the production volume. Same goes for trading. It sound nice the think about it like "afk ISK" but that ISK is just the result of your logged in activity. You just get the money with a certain delay. Like killing a rat, logging off and then getting the bounty.
Lugh Crow-Slave 1912	Posted - 2016.04.12 12:15:05 - [1279] - Quote Mister Ripley wrote: baltec1 wrote: Terrorfrodo wrote: If you earn ISK while logged off than whatever that is you're doing should be nerfed :p It's called industry. I wouldn't say it's "earning ISK while logged off". The actual industry part is getting the materials and setting everything up and then selling it. The time to build is just a cap to regulate the production volume. Same goes for trading. It sound nice the think about it like "afk ISK" but that ISK is just the result of your logged in activity. You just get the money with a certain delay. Like killing a rat, logging off and then getting the bounty. but even then im able to do it at my own pace will i be on tomorrow OK i'll put on a few frigs overnight well i wont be on all week maybe i'll put in a couple battle ships or capital components its also something i can just do from my phone Citadel worm hole tax
Mister Ripley Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde 189	Posted - 2016.04.12 12:19:06 - [1280] - Quote Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Mister Ripley wrote: baltec1 wrote: Terrorfrodo wrote: If you earn ISK while logged off than whatever that is you're doing should be nerfed :p It's called industry. I wouldn't say it's "earning ISK while logged off". The actual industry part is getting the materials and setting everything up and then selling it. The time to build is just a cap to regulate the production volume. Same goes for trading. It sound nice the think about it like "afk ISK" but that ISK is just the result of your logged in activity. You just get the money with a certain delay. Like killing a rat, logging off and then getting the bounty. but even then im able to do it at my own pace will i be on tomorrow OK i'll put on a few frigs overnight well i wont be on all week maybe i'll put in a couple battle ships or capital components its also something i can just do from my phone Yes, that's not what I said, but yes, you are right. You can also change systems by jumping through a stargates. I understand your passion, but there is really no need to inflate this thread with meaningless notes on every comment.
Tomika Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 27	Posted - 2016.04.12 12:22:16 - [1281] - Quote Lan Wang wrote: standings arent relevant to me, sp is relevant to everyone That does not translate to "I need to go and kill a rat for more SP". If you choose to do nothing, literally nothing will change for you. You will still gain SP as fast as you were previously.
Lugh Crow-Slave 1913	Posted - 2016.04.12 12:25:57 - [1282] - Quote Tomika wrote: Lan Wang wrote: standings arent relevant to me, sp is relevant to everyone That does not translate to "I need to go and kill a rat for more SP". If you choose to do nothing, literally nothing will change for you. You will still gain SP as fast as you were previously. sure something has changed i'm now 10ksp behind for the day compaired to the person who was able to do it Citadel worm hole tax
Lan Wang Knights of the Posing Meat FETID 2663	Posted - 2016.04.12 12:31:09 - [1283] - Quote Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Tomika wrote: Lan Wang wrote: standings arent relevant to me, sp is relevant to everyone That does not translate to "I need to go and kill a rat for more SP". If you choose to do nothing, literally nothing will change for you. You will still gain SP as fast as you were previously. sure something has changed i'm now 10ksp behind for the day compaired to the person who was able to do it even though you were logged in and in space for 4 hours that day... FETID now recruiting pvp pilots & corporations \| lowsec pvp & piracy - Join FETID Loyalist to Angel Cartel & Serpentis
aldhura Bartledannians Nite Owls 36	Posted - 2016.04.12 12:34:55 - [1284] - Quote Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Tomika wrote: Lan Wang wrote: standings arent relevant to me, sp is relevant to everyone That does not translate to "I need to go and kill a rat for more SP". If you choose to do nothing, literally nothing will change for you. You will still gain SP as fast as you were previously. sure something has changed i'm now 10ksp behind for the day compaired to the person who was able to do it In that light you millions of SP behind anyone who chooses to inject skills. It free, take it or leave it. Bartledannians Corporation is recruiting Nite Owls Alliance is recruiting
Lan Wang Knights of the Posing Meat FETID 2663	Posted - 2016.04.12 12:45:32 - [1285] - Quote aldhura wrote: Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Tomika wrote: Lan Wang wrote: standings arent relevant to me, sp is relevant to everyone That does not translate to "I need to go and kill a rat for more SP". If you choose to do nothing, literally nothing will change for you. You will still gain SP as fast as you were previously. sure something has changed i'm now 10ksp behind for the day compaired to the person who was able to do it In that light you millions of SP behind anyone who chooses to inject skills. It free, take it or leave it. but injectors are generic and anyone can use them without having to make different gameplay choices, someone logging in for 5 mins gets rewarded where someone who has been online for 3 hours gets no reward unless they change the way they play the game FETID now recruiting pvp pilots & corporations \| lowsec pvp & piracy - Join FETID Loyalist to Angel Cartel & Serpentis
baltec1 Bat Country Pandemic Legion 17574	Posted - 2016.04.12 12:49:37 - [1286] - Quote Mister Ripley wrote: baltec1 wrote: Terrorfrodo wrote: If you earn ISK while logged off than whatever that is you're doing should be nerfed :p It's called industry. I wouldn't say it's "earning ISK while logged off". The actual industry part is getting the materials and setting everything up and then selling it. The time to build is just a cap to regulate the production volume. Same goes for trading. It sound nice the think about it like "afk ISK" but that ISK is just the result of your logged in activity. You just get the money with a certain delay. Like killing a rat, logging off and then getting the bounty. I'd rather spend 20 min setting up industry jobs then going on a weekend break than spending the weekend grinding FW missions.
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 2740	Posted - 2016.04.12 13:04:50 - [1287] - Quote Lan Wang wrote: aldhura wrote: Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Tomika wrote: Lan Wang wrote: standings arent relevant to me, sp is relevant to everyone That does not translate to "I need to go and kill a rat for more SP". If you choose to do nothing, literally nothing will change for you. You will still gain SP as fast as you were previously. sure something has changed i'm now 10ksp behind for the day compaired to the person who was able to do it In that light you millions of SP behind anyone who chooses to inject skills. It free, take it or leave it. but injectors are generic and anyone can use them without having to make different gameplay choices, someone logging in for 5 mins gets rewarded where someone who has been online for 3 hours gets no reward unless they change the way they play the game. sp is generic and relevant to everyone, anyone can buy skill injectors, anyone can buy implants without doing another activity that they dont want to do, to get an extra 4mil sp a year you have to do pve even though you spend more time in space than most people Nobody care, especially the system, if you usually do PvE or not and this is definitely not designed to be "fair" in any way, shape or form between what each player spend his time doing. It's like your boss telling you to bring an apple to work for a 5$ bonus each day. Either you bring the stupid apple and collect 5$ or you don't and don't get a bonus. Oh you live in the middle of the city and no grocery store or market sells apple on your way or close to where you live? Though luck, we want apples. Some people will always get it because they live on an orchard, some people will get it most of the time because they can easyly gets their hands on apples, some people will go the hard way to drive out of their regular travel pattern to get that apple and some people won't because the hassle isn't worth 5$. Is logging every one of your alts and doing a task you dislike worth 10k sp or not? The choice of adding a quantity of "suck" to your gaming is yours. I know I will personally not make a point of getting it all the time because like other stuff in this game and other games too, I refuse to do thing I find stupid and broken. You might think otherwise but at the end of the day, the choice will be yours. CCP is not twisting your arm, reducing your game time or limiting the amount of damage you can deal in the game. They are just not handing you the SP unless you do the stupid task.
Lan Wang Knights of the Posing Meat FETID 2664	Posted - 2016.04.12 13:16:10 - [1288] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: CCP is not twisting your arm, reducing your game time or limiting the amount of damage you can deal in the game. They are just not handing you the SP unless you do the stupid task. yet... However a new player may feel like this is whats happening, "thought this was a sandbox, why they making me do this stuff for extra sp" FETID now recruiting pvp pilots & corporations \| lowsec pvp & piracy - Join FETID Loyalist to Angel Cartel & Serpentis
Sir Constantin 55	Posted - 2016.04.12 13:26:33 - [1289] - Quote These guys with their logical point of view. The feelings and emotions will always win over logic. Not everyone is willing to cut corners and "cheat" using skill injectors, I would never plug that **** in. Lagging behind and losing 6 days of training/month because we don't want to engage in a daily mindless grind is a insult for us, the grownups. We got into this game knowing that progression is linear and we don't have to grind to boost our stats, we understood and accept some of the changes, like SP injectors which are helping the adhd newbros, but this, this is outrageous.
Mayharm EVE University Ivy League 6	Posted - 2016.04.12 14:09:28 - [1290] - Quote CCP Rise wrote: Why Dailies? So first lets talk a little history. EVE had a daily logon incentive for most of it's existence: the 24 hour skill queue limit. Back in Phoebe, we removed those limitations. Now, at the time, we were of two minds internally. We didn't like the experience around being punished for not logging in to update your queue, but also knew that some of those logins might be leading to meaningful gameplay and we shouldn't lightly let go of them. We leaned to the side of a better experience and removed the limitations, hoping that the logins we were generating were fairly empty, rarely leading to more actual activity in the universe. Well, it turns out we were wrong about that. Now, with before and after data we can see that making it into the client is a huge step towards real activity, even if the reason for logging in in the first place seems artificial. So this leads us to where we are now, attempting to find ways to create more logins that also don't feel like such a punishment as the skill queue limitations did. This may not turn out to be the perfect alternative but that's what we're looking for. Eve selling point # 1 it's a sandbox Eve selling point # 2 the sandbox enables player on player interactions to drive content CCP is bringing in dailies because the small % increased chance of player on player interaction appears to bolster selling point # 2. The problem is their idea achieves it by undermining selling point # 1, the freedom to spend your time doing whatever you want in-game. I have a suggestion on how to tie dailies to selling point # 1... this would be good yes? Ok, so put aside the whole SP reward aspect for a moment (FYI I dislike the SP reward) and focus on the required activity, killing a rat or (as they've already indicated) killing a rock. My suggestion, in it's purest form, is to make the required activity completing a corporation contract. How does this tie it to the sandbox? Any item in the game has the potential to be exchanged via contract, from big expensive ships down to illegal drugs and alcohol, from frozen corpses to bookmarks.... In other words the players have the freedom to use their imagination to come up with almost any in-game activity that is possible as the daily requirement. And, believe it or not, the fact that this enables the choice to make the requirement as meaningless and trivial as interacting with a rock by exchanging one unit of trit, this too drives further player on player interaction! How does "cheating" the system produce player on player interaction? In this thread right here we're at 50+ pages of ranting because it's the only connection to CCP, we have no other way of interacting with them. We're doing it because they are introducing/forcing trivial and meaningless content. If a player introduces/re-enforces trivial and meaningless content, well we're in a sandbox, kick sand in his face and and stomp on his sandcastles... If that still does not convince you that in a sandbox there is no "wrong" choice, consider the most extreme example of this with a 2000 member corp. All 2000 members want to complete a daily, every day. To fulfill what their members want the corp management setup trivial contracts for all the members, that's 2000 contracts. Their members want to do it every day and login regularly, so that's 2000 contracts per day. It takes maybe 30 seconds to set up one contract on average (don't ignore RSI, bios, eating etc) 2000 x 30 = 60,000 seconds = 1000 minutes = 16 hours and 40 minutes worth of effort. Why would a corporation spend all that time and effort for free? In real life they'd go bankrupt, in-game they'd burnout contract officers. Even if a coporation were evil enough to do this, same as above, kick sand in their face and stomp on their sandcastles. But what if the player scams the corporation in one of these "imaginative" contracts for frozen corpses or bookmarks? Scammers, isk doublers, corp thieves, spies... again, their choice in how they play the game is not wrong.
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 2740	Posted - 2016.04.12 14:11:36 - [1291] - Quote Lan Wang wrote: Frostys Virpio wrote: CCP is not twisting your arm, reducing your game time or limiting the amount of damage you can deal in the game. They are just not handing you the SP unless you do the stupid task. yet... However a new player may feel like this is whats happening, "thought this was a sandbox, why they making me do this stuff for extra sp" Making you do extra **** for extra stuff is not a punishment. "My boss is not paying me overtime when I don't do overtime!!!!!"
Tomika Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 27	Posted - 2016.04.12 14:16:12 - [1292] - Quote Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: sure something has changed i'm now 10ksp behind for the day compaired to the person who was able to do it And?
CowQueen MMXII 31	Posted - 2016.04.12 14:22:51 - [1293] - Quote Sometimes I am active in the German help channel. When new people come in, the usual advice they are given is: do the career agents, think about what you liked doing and then start developing your activities into this direction. With dailies it would be: do the career agents, create two additional characters on your account, have them done the military agent also (to get a combat ship and a real weapon), make sure you do your daily mission on all three of those characters every day and then do whatever you want with your main character. Somehow this reminds me of the learning skills. You didn't have to learn them, but it was stupid not to. Moo! Uddersucker, moo!

CCP Rise C C P C C P Alliance 5556	Posted - 2016.04.12 14:54:14 - [1294] - Quote Another small update: Thanks to feedback we see that it would improve the experience quite a lot minimize the amount of characters available for this reward so we are going to limit the reward to the first character completing the daily task on each account. Thanks @ccp_rise

Calima Arzi Risk Breakers Snuffed Out 23	Posted - 2016.04.12 14:58:20 - [1295] - Quote CCP Rise wrote: Another small update: Thanks to feedback we see that it would improve the experience quite a lot minimize the amount of characters available for this reward so we are going to limit the reward to the first character completing the daily task on each account. Thanks Thank you for listening!
Advenat Bedala Facehoof Out of Sight. 133	Posted - 2016.04.12 15:00:36 - [1296] - Quote CCP Rise wrote: Another small update: Thanks to feedback we see that it would improve the experience quite a lot minimize the amount of characters available for this reward so we are going to limit the reward to the first character completing the daily task on each account. Thanks Just throw SP reward in trash or You're a liar. Quote: ItGÇÖs very important to note here that this means all the skillpoints available to buy on the market in EVE will have originated on other characters where they were trained at the normal rate.
Erihn Sabrovich 6	Posted - 2016.04.12 15:01:48 - [1297] - Quote baltec1 wrote: Erihn Sabrovich wrote: New content is about - new ships - new structures - new modules (or module changes) - new game mechanics ... That's tools not content=ƒÿë Well, you've obviously never played any true "user created content" game before like Mush/Mux or (for a more graphical one) Second Life... These are sandboxes where users have tools to create items, to script them, to create places, ... If you'd relate it to EVE, it'd be like players would be able to create new ships from scratch (not only adding modules to an existing hull, more like T3 with subsystems on stero+»ds, where you'd also be able to create your own subsystems and your own modules), where players would be able to setup fully automated PvE missions (with both the dialog, the goals, the enemy force, the followup, ...) and so on... EVE is more a "PvP sandbox" than a true "User content sandbox"...
FistyMcBumBardier TURN LEFT 115	Posted - 2016.04.12 15:02:19 - [1298] - Quote CCP Rise wrote: Another small update: Thanks to feedback we see that it would improve the experience quite a lot minimize the amount of characters available for this reward so we are going to limit the reward to the first character completing the daily task on each account. Thanks Would you guys consider switching the rewards over to Aurum instead? I think a lot of players are triggered by the fact that SP is being rewarded and they are then reminded of horrible grinds with WoW and the clones of that. With Aurum it would also encourage players to use more SKINS which is really good.
Cynical-Saint Sunji Aideron Robotics 0	Posted - 2016.04.12 15:03:01 - [1299] - Quote I think your goal would be better achieved if there was an SP rate boost any time you have a Limited Engagement Timer. It is a better indicator of someone creating content. And the more content they create, the more SP they gain. It also doesn't discourage the players that are bad at it. You may get blown up every time you engage someone, but you gain SP because you are at least out creating content.
Mizhir TURN LEFT 74730	Posted - 2016.04.12 15:04:06 - [1300] - Quote CCP Rise wrote: Another small update: Thanks to feedback we see that it would improve the experience quite a lot minimize the amount of characters available for this reward so we are going to limit the reward to the first character completing the daily task on each account. Thanks Still not making them weekly? Dailies are still a ***** for players who don't have the time or the desire to log into EVE each day but still play actively on the days they do. One Man Crew - Collective Solo PVP - Video is out!
Lan Wang Knights of the Posing Meat FETID 2668	Posted - 2016.04.12 15:17:04 - [1301] - Quote CCP Rise wrote: Another small update: Thanks to feedback we see that it would improve the experience quite a lot minimize the amount of characters available for this reward so we are going to limit the reward to the first character completing the daily task on each account. Thanks Improve experience? dont you mean mean decrease boredom slightly FETID now recruiting pvp pilots & corporations \| lowsec pvp & piracy - Join FETID Loyalist to Angel Cartel & Serpentis
Jenn aSide Smokin Aces. 13892	Posted - 2016.04.12 15:27:07 - [1302] - Quote CCP Rise wrote: Another small update: Thanks to feedback we see that it would improve the experience quite a lot minimize the amount of characters available for this reward so we are going to limit the reward to the first character completing the daily task on each account. Thanks Damn, there goes my plan to put all 8 of my alts in confessors, log off in lvl 1 missions and long in long enough to kill one frig and log off again
Rain6639 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3860	Posted - 2016.04.12 15:52:33 - [1303] - Quote CCP Rise wrote: Another small update: Thanks to feedback we see that it would improve the experience quite a lot minimize the amount of characters available for this reward so we are going to limit the reward to the first character completing the daily task on each account. Thanks Reallocating previously trained SP is a better incentive but okay.
Sir Constantin 57	Posted - 2016.04.12 15:54:39 - [1304] - Quote CCP Rise wrote: Another small update: Thanks to feedback we see that it would improve the experience quite a lot minimize the amount of characters available for this reward so we are going to limit the reward to the first character completing the daily task on each account. Thanks Nice play, totally scripted. 1. Launch a really bad mechanic in a really bad form knowing that people would rage. Let the people rage a few days. 2. Come with some bla bla bla, keeping the bad mechanic People rage less. 3. Then you come saying that CCP is listening, you add a slight improvement to a still bad mechanic, a improvement that you could have added day one but if you did you wouldn't had any other leverage/ buffer. Naive people get fooled into accepting the change I wonder what's the CSM take on this, did they knew/accept this ****?
Syrias Bizniz Zebra Corp Goonswarm Federation 454	Posted - 2016.04.12 16:03:20 - [1305] - Quote Inomares wrote: Anything I feel obliged to do on a daily basis whether I feel like doing it or not, I will end up hating. I quit WoW for this exact same reason. I didn't need the gold I got from logging in and updating my Garrison for 5 minutes/day, but the nagging feeling that I was missing out if I didn't was always there. In the end, it nagged me to the point where I quit the game over it. Don't start making me hate eve as well, please. The skill queue change is one of the best changes I've seen since I came back to the game. Why are you even here then? You always DO miss out on the ISK. Where's your nagging feeling?
FT Diomedes The Graduates 2477	Posted - 2016.04.12 16:04:11 - [1306] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: CCP Rise wrote: Another small update: Thanks to feedback we see that it would improve the experience quite a lot minimize the amount of characters available for this reward so we are going to limit the reward to the first character completing the daily task on each account. Thanks Damn, there goes my plan to put all 8 of my alts in confessors, log off in lvl 1 missions and long in long enough to kill one frig and log off again I had something similar planned. CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.
FT Diomedes The Graduates 2478	Posted - 2016.04.12 16:08:32 - [1307] - Quote CCP Rise wrote: Another small update: Thanks to feedback we see that it would improve the experience quite a lot minimize the amount of characters available for this reward so we are going to limit the reward to the first character completing the daily task on each account. Thanks This is a step in the right direction. You still need to make it a weekly chore. If it must be daily, make it actually daily - either based off calendar day or resetting at downtime. Additionally, it should be AURUM. If it must be SP, make it a percentage training rate increase that compares to adding another +1 to each attribute, rather than 10K SP/day. CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.
Kym Mena World Burning 21	Posted - 2016.04.12 16:15:37 - [1308] - Quote CCP Rise wrote: Another small update: Thanks to feedback we see that it would improve the experience quite a lot minimize the amount of characters available for this reward so we are going to limit the reward to the first character completing the daily task on each account. Thanks Out of all the feedback here, the overwhelmingly negative feedback, the only thing you took from it was this? Is reading comprehension not a strong suit of yours or do you really not give a **** about what we've been saying? I have come to the conclusion that, as noted previously, your plan is proceeding on script in a bid to get us to shut up by saying "well, it's not as bad as the first idea". I have news for you, I will only acquiesce because I will stop believing that player feedback matters to CCP. I will not be the only one. How long after you lose our trust and respect do you expect to need a new log in "reward" to boost numbers again? I can't wait to hear what kind of feedback you all get in person, Fanfest should be really interesting.
Khan Wrenth Ore Oppression Prevention and Salvation 551	Posted - 2016.04.12 16:28:05 - [1309] - Quote Kym Mena wrote: CCP Rise wrote: Another small update: Thanks to feedback we see that it would improve the experience quite a lot minimize the amount of characters available for this reward so we are going to limit the reward to the first character completing the daily task on each account. Thanks Out of all the feedback here, the overwhelmingly negative feedback, the only thing you took from it was this? Is reading comprehension not a strong suit of yours or do you really not give a **** about what we've been saying? I have come to the conclusion that, as noted previously, your plan is proceeding on script in a bid to get us to shut up by saying "well, it's not as bad as the first idea". I have news for you, I will only acquiesce because I will stop believing that player feedback matters to CCP. I will not be the only one. How long after you lose our trust and respect do you expect to need a new log in "reward" to boost numbers again? I can't wait to hear what kind of feedback you all get in person, Fanfest should be really interesting. To be fair, that was one of the biggest concerns. To be fairer, the title of the thread is "Daily Opportunities coming soon", not "Dailies MIGHT be coming", or "Dev Idea - Dailies, player opinion makes or breaks". I think it was actually kinda unreasonable on our part to assume that we could change anything about this. From the start, this project was a go, we just were able to shave off some of the rougher corners of it. Let's discuss overhauling the way we get intel in EvE.
Eveline Vos POS Party Ember Sands 67	Posted - 2016.04.12 16:28:10 - [1310] - Quote CCP Rise wrote: Another small update: Thanks to feedback we see that it would improve the experience quite a lot minimize the amount of characters available for this reward so we are going to limit the reward to the first character completing the daily task on each account. Thanks Adding a slightly less bad mechanic to the game is still adding a bad mechanic to the game. Do not do this. It's been explained by myself and others in this thread, we do NOT want dailies, we do not want sandbox gameplay dictated, and we do not appreciate being treated like idiots who can't see this change for what it is, a crappy psychological psudo-mechanic to inflate logins, even if they're not meaningful. There are a lot of good ways to make people want to log in to Eve, but a psychological manipulation of "losing SP" is easily the worst way possible. You'd moved away from this with the changes to skill queues, and that was a good thing, you don't need to go back to it. As already mentioned repeatedly, changes to PVE content (which, iirc, you're already working on) will go significantly further towards people wanting to log in. Citadels will make people want to log in. Promoting media (streams, youtube, etc) will make people want to log in. Making adjustments to the tutorial system and opportunities will keep new players logging in/subbing. There are a lot of ways to get people to want to log in (even if they're hard to implement well), but dailies is not a good one.
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 2740	Posted - 2016.04.12 16:30:19 - [1311] - Quote Khan Wrenth wrote: Kym Mena wrote: CCP Rise wrote: Another small update: Thanks to feedback we see that it would improve the experience quite a lot minimize the amount of characters available for this reward so we are going to limit the reward to the first character completing the daily task on each account. Thanks Out of all the feedback here, the overwhelmingly negative feedback, the only thing you took from it was this? Is reading comprehension not a strong suit of yours or do you really not give a **** about what we've been saying? I have come to the conclusion that, as noted previously, your plan is proceeding on script in a bid to get us to shut up by saying "well, it's not as bad as the first idea". I have news for you, I will only acquiesce because I will stop believing that player feedback matters to CCP. I will not be the only one. How long after you lose our trust and respect do you expect to need a new log in "reward" to boost numbers again? I can't wait to hear what kind of feedback you all get in person, Fanfest should be really interesting. To be fair, that was one of the biggest concerns. To be fairer, the title of the thread is "Daily Opportunities coming soon", not "Dailies MIGHT be coming", or "Dev Idea - Dailies, player opinion makes or breaks". I think it was actually kinda unreasonable on our part to assume that we could change anything about this. From the start, this project was a go, we just were able to shave off some of the rougher corners of it. People do have a rather high expectation of what will happen with their feedback. Providing feedback does not mean you can turn everything around because you want it.
Kym Mena World Burning 22	Posted - 2016.04.12 16:35:58 - [1312] - Quote Khan Wrenth wrote: Kym Mena wrote: CCP Rise wrote: Another small update: Thanks to feedback we see that it would improve the experience quite a lot minimize the amount of characters available for this reward so we are going to limit the reward to the first character completing the daily task on each account. Thanks Out of all the feedback here, the overwhelmingly negative feedback, the only thing you took from it was this? Is reading comprehension not a strong suit of yours or do you really not give a **** about what we've been saying? I have come to the conclusion that, as noted previously, your plan is proceeding on script in a bid to get us to shut up by saying "well, it's not as bad as the first idea". I have news for you, I will only acquiesce because I will stop believing that player feedback matters to CCP. I will not be the only one. How long after you lose our trust and respect do you expect to need a new log in "reward" to boost numbers again? I can't wait to hear what kind of feedback you all get in person, Fanfest should be really interesting. To be fair, that was one of the biggest concerns. To be fairer, the title of the thread is "Daily Opportunities coming soon", not "Dailies MIGHT be coming", or "Dev Idea - Dailies, player opinion makes or breaks". I think it was actually kinda unreasonable on our part to assume that we could change anything about this. From the start, this project was a go, we just were able to shave off some of the rougher corners of it. The only thing we did was play along with the script, more psych manipulation from CCP on this. i strongly suspect that the actual plan was for one character per account, once per day, to be manipulated into playing the way CCP wants them to, in order to create false log in numbers to make themselves look better. They knew we wouldn't like this, as can be seen by reading any page of tbis thread (Novel idea, right Rise?) so they created a worse idea that we would speak against so they could pretend to acquiesce and get away with what they really wanted. Anyone who thinks this is a win is a fool. As for it being a certainty, I stated that in my first post. They have made up their minds to treat the slippery slope like a Slip n' Slide and dive down it head first.
Molly Shears Call of the Wild The Minions. 14	Posted - 2016.04.12 16:35:58 - [1313] - Quote CCP Rise wrote: Another small update: Thanks to feedback we see that it would improve the experience quite a lot minimize the amount of characters available for this reward so we are going to limit the reward to the first character completing the daily task on each account. Thanks what about 22h ? why not between downtimes ? Didn't changed my mind. I'm Against Daily Opportunities I'm Against Daily Opportunities
Eveline Vos POS Party Ember Sands 67	Posted - 2016.04.12 16:38:56 - [1314] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: Khan Wrenth wrote: Kym Mena wrote: CCP Rise wrote: Another small update: Thanks to feedback we see that it would improve the experience quite a lot minimize the amount of characters available for this reward so we are going to limit the reward to the first character completing the daily task on each account. Thanks Out of all the feedback here, the overwhelmingly negative feedback, the only thing you took from it was this? Is reading comprehension not a strong suit of yours or do you really not give a **** about what we've been saying? I have come to the conclusion that, as noted previously, your plan is proceeding on script in a bid to get us to shut up by saying "well, it's not as bad as the first idea". I have news for you, I will only acquiesce because I will stop believing that player feedback matters to CCP. I will not be the only one. How long after you lose our trust and respect do you expect to need a new log in "reward" to boost numbers again? I can't wait to hear what kind of feedback you all get in person, Fanfest should be really interesting. To be fair, that was one of the biggest concerns. To be fairer, the title of the thread is "Daily Opportunities coming soon", not "Dailies MIGHT be coming", or "Dev Idea - Dailies, player opinion makes or breaks". I think it was actually kinda unreasonable on our part to assume that we could change anything about this. From the start, this project was a go, we just were able to shave off some of the rougher corners of it. People do have a rather high expectation of what will happen with their feedback. Providing feedback does not mean you can turn everything around because you want it. While it doesn't mean I can turn around a sailed ship, I can make it expressly clear to CCP that I hate dailies and will unsub accounts over an issue. Of course, everyone threatens that, but only CCP knows how many accounts they have or haven't lost over a given change. However, I am saddened to hear that dailies were determined to be the best long term solution to "people don't like our game enough to log in", and so I need to help whoever it is at CCP (Rise?) see that it is not a good idea.
Eveline Vos POS Party Ember Sands 67	Posted - 2016.04.12 16:40:52 - [1315] - Quote Kym Mena wrote: Khan Wrenth wrote: Kym Mena wrote: CCP Rise wrote: Another small update: Thanks to feedback we see that it would improve the experience quite a lot minimize the amount of characters available for this reward so we are going to limit the reward to the first character completing the daily task on each account. Thanks Out of all the feedback here, the overwhelmingly negative feedback, the only thing you took from it was this? Is reading comprehension not a strong suit of yours or do you really not give a **** about what we've been saying? I have come to the conclusion that, as noted previously, your plan is proceeding on script in a bid to get us to shut up by saying "well, it's not as bad as the first idea". I have news for you, I will only acquiesce because I will stop believing that player feedback matters to CCP. I will not be the only one. How long after you lose our trust and respect do you expect to need a new log in "reward" to boost numbers again? I can't wait to hear what kind of feedback you all get in person, Fanfest should be really interesting. To be fair, that was one of the biggest concerns. To be fairer, the title of the thread is "Daily Opportunities coming soon", not "Dailies MIGHT be coming", or "Dev Idea - Dailies, player opinion makes or breaks". I think it was actually kinda unreasonable on our part to assume that we could change anything about this. From the start, this project was a go, we just were able to shave off some of the rougher corners of it. The only thing we did was play along with the script, more psych manipulation from CCP on this. i strongly suspect that the actual plan was for one character per account, once per day, to be manipulated into playing the way CCP wants them to, in order to create false log in numbers to make themselves look better. They knew we wouldn't like this, as can be seen by reading any page of tbis thread (Novel idea, right Rise?) so they created a worse idea that we would speak against so they could pretend to acquiesce and get away with what they really wanted. Anyone who thinks this is a win is a fool. As for it being a certainty, I stated that in my first post. They have made up their minds to treat the slippery slope like a Slip n' Slide and dive down it head first. Exactly. This "update" isn't a win, it's a slap in the face. More bad psychology at work...
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 2740	Posted - 2016.04.12 16:43:28 - [1316] - Quote Kym Mena wrote: Khan Wrenth wrote: Kym Mena wrote: CCP Rise wrote: Another small update: Thanks to feedback we see that it would improve the experience quite a lot minimize the amount of characters available for this reward so we are going to limit the reward to the first character completing the daily task on each account. Thanks Out of all the feedback here, the overwhelmingly negative feedback, the only thing you took from it was this? Is reading comprehension not a strong suit of yours or do you really not give a **** about what we've been saying? I have come to the conclusion that, as noted previously, your plan is proceeding on script in a bid to get us to shut up by saying "well, it's not as bad as the first idea". I have news for you, I will only acquiesce because I will stop believing that player feedback matters to CCP. I will not be the only one. How long after you lose our trust and respect do you expect to need a new log in "reward" to boost numbers again? I can't wait to hear what kind of feedback you all get in person, Fanfest should be really interesting. To be fair, that was one of the biggest concerns. To be fairer, the title of the thread is "Daily Opportunities coming soon", not "Dailies MIGHT be coming", or "Dev Idea - Dailies, player opinion makes or breaks". I think it was actually kinda unreasonable on our part to assume that we could change anything about this. From the start, this project was a go, we just were able to shave off some of the rougher corners of it. The only thing we did was play along with the script, more psych manipulation from CCP on this. i strongly suspect that the actual plan was for one character per account, once per day, to be manipulated into playing the way CCP wants them to, in order to create false log in numbers to make themselves look better. They knew we wouldn't like this, as can be seen by reading any page of tbis thread (Novel idea, right Rise?) so they created a worse idea that we would speak against so they could pretend to acquiesce and get away with what they really wanted. Anyone who thinks this is a win is a fool. As for it being a certainty, I stated that in my first post. They have made up their minds to treat the slippery slope like a Slip n' Slide and dive down it head first. Are you gonna quit over the combo of the change and their "evil" behavior and if yes, can I have your stuff?
Khan Wrenth Ore Oppression Prevention and Salvation 553	Posted - 2016.04.12 16:44:46 - [1317] - Quote Eveline Vos wrote: However, I am saddened to hear that dailies were determined to be the best long term solution to "people don't like our game enough to log in", and so I need to help whoever it is at CCP (Rise?) see that it is not a good idea. It's the mixed bag of player-driven content. When it's awesome, like when a map-changing war is being fought across huge swaths of the map, then it's a dev's dream come true. When it's not awesome, there's very little you can do about it. CCP can't force people to fight. Any idea to drive conflict will have lots of vocal detractors, results to be seen, can be hit or miss. But if they feel they must do something, given the theme of this game is still player-driven content, their options are severely limited. I may not like dailies, in fact I may dislike them just as much as many of the most vocal here. But I understand what CCP is aiming for, and to an extent I even respect it. Maybe if wars like this, or slightly smaller, were fought more often more players would be drawn in and current ones would log in more. But nobody can force that to happen. In fact it goes against the very nature of people - they trend towards settling in, rather than stirring up trouble. Even pirates make allies sometimes. Let's discuss overhauling the way we get intel in EvE.
Eveline Vos POS Party Ember Sands 73	Posted - 2016.04.12 17:28:17 - [1318] - Quote Khan Wrenth wrote: Eveline Vos wrote: However, I am saddened to hear that dailies were determined to be the best long term solution to "people don't like our game enough to log in", and so I need to help whoever it is at CCP (Rise?) see that it is not a good idea. It's the mixed bag of player-driven content. When it's awesome, like when a map-changing war is being fought across huge swaths of the map, then it's a dev's dream come true. When it's not awesome, there's very little you can do about it. CCP can't force people to fight. Any idea to drive conflict will have lots of vocal detractors, results to be seen, can be hit or miss. But if they feel they must do something, given the theme of this game is still player-driven content, their options are severely limited. I may not like dailies, in fact I may dislike them just as much as many of the most vocal here. But I understand what CCP is aiming for, and to an extent I even respect it. Maybe if wars like this, or slightly smaller, were fought more often more players would be drawn in and current ones would log in more. But nobody can force that to happen. In fact it goes against the very nature of people - they trend towards settling in, rather than stirring up trouble. Even pirates make allies sometimes. I agree with you overall, but I still don't think dailies are the way to get there. I certainly don't have a solution, but some of the things I mentioned, like better PVE (even these faction event sites are a step in the right direction), will get more people logging into the game in the first place (meeting the goal of dailies), except better content will keep them logged in longer, which provides more of those spontaneous conflicts. It just isn't as easy to implement as dailies. Also, honestly, despite the history/bad reputation, walking in station with player interaction such as avatar gambling, minigames, etc etc would get people to be logged into the game as well, which makes it easier for them to react (undock) to conflicts created by the people in space, or maybe even start fights in the first place.
Axhind Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation 125	Posted - 2016.04.12 17:34:35 - [1319] - Quote CCP Rise wrote: Okay, let's see if I can provide some context for our decision to add daily opportunities to eve and maybe answer some of your bigger questions. Why Dailies? So first lets talk a little history. EVE had a daily logon incentive for most of it's existence: the 24 hour skill queue limit. Back in Phoebe, we removed those limitations. Now, at the time, we were of two minds internally. We didn't like the experience around being punished for not logging in to update your queue, but also knew that some of those logins might be leading to meaningful gameplay and we shouldn't lightly let go of them. We leaned to the side of a better experience and removed the limitations, hoping that the logins we were generating were fairly empty, rarely leading to more actual activity in the universe. Well, it turns out we were wrong about that. Now, with before and after data we can see that making it into the client is a huge step towards real activity, even if the reason for logging in in the first place seems artificial. So this leads us to where we are now, attempting to find ways to create more logins that also don't feel like such a punishment as the skill queue limitations did. This may not turn out to be the perfect alternative but that's what we're looking for. This is freaking absurd. You have made many changes since then and numbers have been dropping for years despite the assurances from CCP that what everyone wants from EVE is small gang ganks in interceptors or T3Ds. Now you have a huge ass block war and suddenly all manners of players are coming back and active numbers are spiking and the conclusion you draw from it all is that you need to introduce a daily, utterly meaningless grind, into EVE despite no decent evidence that anyone in the game has asked for it. Can you show us a single MMO that has introduced daily grinds that is doing as well as EVE? Daily grinds is what makes people burn out. Especially since the mean age of EVE players is somewhere around 37, which means that most of us have lives and can't dedicate every second of our lives to a game. EVE has always been an MMO for a mature audience as it respected our time. I can play when I want, however I want without losing out on SP. Finally, on this part, the idea that this is optional is absurd. There is tons of research (done by experts in statistics and human psychology) that shows that most of us will feel like we are forced to do it and will do it for a short while before burning out and leaving EVE. Numbers in EVE are not that good that you can afford to get rid of everyone that is not in the 12-18 years range. CCP Rise wrote: Why Skillpoints? SP is only thing with any real value in EVE so yes, you will force people to login and, as shown by plenty of research, they will burn out and that will be the end of EVE. If you don't respect our time, if you force us to grind and play as you want then what kind of sandbox is it and why should we pay for gameplay that is quickly approaching F2P games. We pay to have a unique game not a n:th copy of WoW or even worse Korean games like WoT. CCP Rise wrote: Why so lazy? Only good part about this thread is that at least you didn't waste a lot of developer time. However the whole we will release it and you all can go to hell approach is somewhat insulting considering that you have a job because we are paying subscriptions and despite what you might think EVE is a game and we don't have to play it. Making it into a daily grind will make majority of your players burn out fast as we do have lives outside of EVE. Makes me sad to see how far you have fallen. Once upon a time CCP listened to the players, especially when all the available statistical data showed that players were completely right. Keep on this track and you will be looking for a new job soon.
Mara Tessidar Hole Violence Goonswarm Federation 1172	Posted - 2016.04.12 17:38:58 - [1320] - Quote Maybe if this game wasn't boring as shit more people would log in and you wouldn't have to add dumb gimmicks like daily chores.
Mara Tessidar Hole Violence Goonswarm Federation 1172	Posted - 2016.04.12 17:41:01 - [1321] - Quote Mining mechanics have remained unchanged since ~2002 when they were first prototyped. Belt ratting hasn't received an overhaul since it was nuked into the ground. Anomalies come in a handful of worthwhile varieties that have to be run 100,000,000,000 times and are completely repetitive. The only interesting PvE is the kind that takes place where other players can shoot at you, and it's not interesting because of the actual game content. I could go on, but I think you're starting to get the point about this game being boring.
Niko Lorenzio United Eve Directorate 607	Posted - 2016.04.12 17:45:42 - [1322] - Quote CCP Rise wrote: Okay, let's see if I can provide some context for our decision to add daily opportunities to eve and maybe answer some of your bigger questions. .... . Thanks for an actual reply detailing the thinking behind the feature. I must say that this kind of communication is vital for the future of the game. First, I would like to point out a small contradiction. You say that you're doing this to create activity but then you mention that you want it double on lunch breaks, which obviously can't really result in much activity. I'm going to assume those are separate so that those that don't want to be left out can do it in a short amount of time even if they can't commit to any emergent activity from logging in. Good call on making it once per account. I still have a huge problem with specific activity rewarding SP. I would suggest an alternate activity all playstyles and players can take part in. The discovery feature is a great alternative as anyone can participate regardless of location or conditions in space around them that would prevent them from undocking. If the motivation is truly to get players to login, they shouldn't have to undock or be limited to certain activities for SP. Rewards in limited space activities would be fine for ISK, but not SP. I get that being in space might lead to more things happening but SP reward is too punishing in a game which is a lot more than just flying in space Last note on WOW in space. If you truly believe that Eve is different just because of its space sci fi setting, you're very mistaken. At its core it's about the values and principles that separate it from other games. Things like grind free progression, being in a sandbox where you can do anything you want without being forced into certain activities and not being manipilated by cheap tactics like rats in a cage. We don't appreciate Skinners box mechanics, being forced to do stuff a certain way at a certain time and general use of sticks and carrots to manipilated the playerbase. The CSM XI Election are now open until March 25th, 2016. Consider Niko Lorenzio for CSM XI. CSM matters, your voice matters, your vote matters!
Amarisen Gream Divine Demise Apocalypse Now. 248	Posted - 2016.04.12 17:46:09 - [1323] - Quote On my lunch break - And it seems that if I ever make it to fanfest and get smashed (don't drink but I am sure I can over load on some other liquid) I have a reason to pull out my man parts and pee on some dev shoes. 66 pages plus of feedback and i still don't feel comfortable with this idea, even though I have purposes ideas like this before. I have already posted feed back before - As it stands right now, CCP Snorlax seems to be the only one (and his team) listening to player feed back. "The Lord loosed upon them his fierce anger All of his fury and rage. He dispatched against them a band of Avenging Angels" - The Scriptures, Book II, Apocalypse 10:1 DIDE- is open to new members
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 2740	Posted - 2016.04.12 17:56:45 - [1324] - Quote Amarisen Gream wrote: As it stands right now, CCP Snorlax seems to be the only one (and his team) listening to player feed back. Listening to feedback does not mean implementing anything the player base will ask/request. As long as you miss that point, you will always think they don't listen.
Mara Pahrdi The Order of Anoyia 1121	Posted - 2016.04.12 18:01:47 - [1325] - Quote Erihn Sabrovich wrote: The problem is, that only players DO CREATE content... /Fixed It's all in your head. Or it isn't. If it isn't, it's a waste of time, no matter what. Remove insurance.
Axhind Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation 127	Posted - 2016.04.12 18:04:17 - [1326] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: Amarisen Gream wrote: As it stands right now, CCP Snorlax seems to be the only one (and his team) listening to player feed back. Listening to feedback does not mean implementing anything the player base will ask/request. As long as you miss that point, you will always think they don't listen. Considering that player numbers have clearly shown how well CCPs idea of EVE as small gang fighting simulation is going it might be time to actually listen to player feedback. There are competent people on all sides who love this game and give feedback not so that their side will benefit but because they want EVE to stay strong so that we have somewhere to hang out and share, what is becoming less and less, a unique game with others.
Vasiliy Stalin Academy Diesel Corporation Intercom. 0	Posted - 2016.04.12 18:06:59 - [1327] - Quote ccp rise, you're wrong. nowadays we've got learning as some thing across the game, we don't have an another way to get some skillpoints, then to learn. even skill points from skill injectors were learned some day. so, I won't more play this game, sorry. there was a good idea to return in this summer to try Citadels and new capitals, but.. I just don't want. it'll be better if you changed the most bored things in Eve instead of skillpoints from the air, planetary interaction, epic arcs, or npc's for example.
Circumstantial Evidence 292	Posted - 2016.04.12 18:23:02 - [1328] - Quote Thank you for the small change reducing the grind some players may feel compelled toward, but the feature is still incomplete in that it favors only one playstyle. Tippia suggested to simply reward the act of logging in. Some players would do nothing for 10 minutes, but some others won't be able to help themselves... "OK I'm here, may as well do X..." Feature is still a manipulative grab at some small percent activity increase, when so much more is being accomplished right now with regular improvements to the game that bring back long-term players to try out the changes. Events like Frostline / Guristas get players in space, and the loot offers trading and building opportunities in addition to shooting rats. Just keep those events coming, and I won't feel manipulated :) On the cusp of the Citadel expansion, which is driving a lot of player excitement about new things to do and build and explode, this feature... timing is bad. Feature still continues the devaluation of skill points by making them a commodity CCP will start giving out in this - and quite probably future promotions. 2016 will be remembered as the year the SP floodgates were opened, and a unique aspect of EVE character progression was changed. Some interesting alternative rewards I've seen: "Project Discovery" type of LP, offering unique rewards redeemable at 3/6/12 months CONCORD LP Aurum Ability to drain allocated SP into the unallocated pool
Tavari Minrathos Honey Badgers R US 16	Posted - 2016.04.12 18:34:23 - [1329] - Quote I have questions about implementation. 1 Character per account per day. First, can it just reset with daily downtime as opposed to 22 hours? Less tracking on the player side. While there is some benefit if you can log on 24/7 to min/max the 22 hour thing, I would prefer it to just be once per daily server reset. 2) How will this work for fleets? Everyone how damages? Last hit? Won't work in fleet? How will nondamaging roles work (logi/ewar)? I don't think you want to discourage fleeting, but I do think you want everyone out in a ship so killing blow makes the most sense to me. That way for a main/alt combo in space, the main can do most of the damage and the scanning/logi alt can get final blow with drones. Implications get weird if everyone in fleet gets credit for 1 NPC kill (incursions, micro me and my alts fleets in null for 1 kill) Only sort of related, but would you (CCP) consider reducing the amount of sites/rats in .8 or higher and increasing them in .7-.5 to increase risk ever so slightly in HiSec?
Vincent Athena V.I.C.E. 3821	Posted - 2016.04.12 19:01:24 - [1330] - Quote CCP Rise wrote: Another small update: Thanks to feedback we see that it would improve the experience quite a lot minimize the amount of characters available for this reward so we are going to limit the reward to the first character completing the daily task on each account. Thanks Thanks! May I also suggest that if you expand this to other activities, like hacking a can, mining a roid, and so on, you put an OR between those activities. That is, I can just do one of them, whichever one I happen to want to do, and get the reward. Know a Frozen fan? Check this out Frozen fanfiction
Shallanna Yassavi Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 120	Posted - 2016.04.12 19:12:31 - [1331] - Quote CCP Rise wrote: Another small update: Thanks to feedback we see that it would improve the experience quite a lot minimize the amount of characters available for this reward so we are going to limit the reward to the first character completing the daily task on each account. Thanks It's still a bad joke. It's still the game telling some of us what to do before we start doing before we go do what we really wanted to do, and the game telling us we have to do it every 22 hours or so. A signature :o
Masao Kurata Many Much Mechanics 475	Posted - 2016.04.12 19:14:31 - [1332] - Quote So you're set on this and nothing's going to change your mind? Well, fortunately you have statistics that will show you exactly how bad this is a couple of months after introduction, when daily logins rise (obviously) but subscriptions and pvp activity drop and people cite burn out from dailies as the reason they quit.
Circumstantial Evidence 293	Posted - 2016.04.12 19:15:33 - [1333] - Quote @ Vincent Athena: CCP Rise in post #14 wrote: "how about a reward for either killing an NPC, hacking a Data/Relic thingy or popping a rock?" - Likely one of the first ways we would look to expand in a follow-up release.
Pryce Caesar Evil Young Flesh 61	Posted - 2016.04.12 19:26:18 - [1334] - Quote Shallanna Yassavi wrote: CCP Rise wrote: Another small update: Thanks to feedback we see that it would improve the experience quite a lot minimize the amount of characters available for this reward so we are going to limit the reward to the first character completing the daily task on each account. Thanks It's still a bad joke. It's still the game telling some of us what to do before we start doing before we go do what we really wanted to do, and the game telling us we have to do it every 22 hours or so. The Dailies are bonuses; they are suggestions. You can choose to not do them if you want to. Just because the game tells you it can be done, does not make it obligatory. If you want the extra SP, go for it. If you don't need the extra SP, you can leave them be. Just don't try to ruin it for everyone because it is a mechanic that you do not like on a personal level. For us newer players, this is a blessing. No longer will our skill training be bound to the whims of the set skill queue training times; we can buff up and quicken our training with skill points earned through completion of dailies.
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 2740	Posted - 2016.04.12 19:30:18 - [1335] - Quote Masao Kurata wrote: So you're set on this and nothing's going to change your mind? Well, fortunately you have statistics that will show you exactly how bad this is a couple of months after introduction, when daily logins rise (obviously) but subscriptions and pvp activity drop and people cite burn out from dailies as the reason they quit. Can't wait for the "I quit" forum post from people burning themselves out on optional content.
Axhind Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation 130	Posted - 2016.04.12 19:35:03 - [1336] - Quote Pryce Caesar wrote: Shallanna Yassavi wrote: CCP Rise wrote: Another small update: Thanks to feedback we see that it would improve the experience quite a lot minimize the amount of characters available for this reward so we are going to limit the reward to the first character completing the daily task on each account. Thanks It's still a bad joke. It's still the game telling some of us what to do before we start doing before we go do what we really wanted to do, and the game telling us we have to do it every 22 hours or so. The Dailies are bonuses; they are suggestions. You can choose to not do them if you want to. Just because the game tells you it can be done, does not make it obligatory. If you want the extra SP, go for it. If you don't need the extra SP, you can leave them be. Just don't try to ruin it for everyone because it is a mechanic that you do not like on a personal level. For us newer players, this is a blessing. No longer will our skill training be bound to the whims of the set skill queue training times; we can buff up and quicken our training with skill points earned through completion of dailies. Dailies are put in because human psychology is such that people feel forced to do it. Otherwise nobody would put it into their game. How exactly is it optional if the main reason for introducing, as cited by CCP Rise, is to get/force players to login?
Vincent Athena V.I.C.E. 3821	Posted - 2016.04.12 19:38:02 - [1337] - Quote Circumstantial Evidence wrote: @ Vincent Athena: CCP Rise in post #14 wrote: "how about a reward for either killing an NPC, hacking a Data/Relic thingy or popping a rock?" - Likely one of the first ways we would look to expand in a follow-up release. Right. But is the a AND between those, or an OR? That is do you have to do them all to get the maximum reward, or just one from the list? Know a Frozen fan? Check this out Frozen fanfiction
Ravcharas Infinite Point Violence of Action. 471	Posted - 2016.04.12 19:38:06 - [1338] - Quote So this is completely anecdotal evidence, take it for what it's worth. I checked in with a friend of mine who is currently unsubbed. His reaction was an immediate "uh-oh," followed by the opinion that the introduction of dailies is not something that bodes well for the future of a game. He thought 10k was an awful lot of skillpoints, and figured he would pretty much have to set time aside to do the daily in order to not lag behind other players. He didn't see the correlation between logging in to shoot an npc and an increase in in-game activity. Instead, he figured it was stat-padding to keep up appearances for investors and stakeholders. I've been trying to lure him back in, turns out I'm into co-dependency I guess. I don't think this change will make it more likely he'll return. Again, completely anecdotal, I know -- so if you want to dismiss it as the desperate gambit of an entrenched contrarian I suppose there's not much I can do about it.
Gevlin Fink Operations The Volition Cult 281	Posted - 2016.04.12 19:48:08 - [1339] - Quote Considering that eve is focused around a PVP environment, having people Incouraged. To log on and leave a station is a good thing. More people to shoot. With the removal of clone up grades the risk of sp loss Is minimal. Someday I will have the time to play. For now it is mining afk in High sec. In Cheap ships
Niko Lorenzio United Eve Directorate 610	Posted - 2016.04.12 19:49:48 - [1340] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: Masao Kurata wrote: So you're set on this and nothing's going to change your mind? Well, fortunately you have statistics that will show you exactly how bad this is a couple of months after introduction, when daily logins rise (obviously) but subscriptions and pvp activity drop and people cite burn out from dailies as the reason they quit. Can't wait for the "I quit" forum post from people burning themselves out on optional content. More like "I quit because I'm tired of CCP continually ***** over their game and players." I have more sp than I know what to do with. Personally neither this nor sp trading affects me at all. One of alts is training with no implants because I've been too lazy to login and Jump clone to my +5. That doesn't mean I don't care about something that doesn't affect me or support something just because it would benefit me personally. These are things that affect the entire game and players. Would you like it if your country replaced the national flag with a picture of a big turd? it's optional, you don't have to hang that flag outside your window. Are you really affected personally by govt spying on and prosecuting journalists and dissidents if you're not one yourself? The CSM XI Election are now open until March 25th, 2016.** Consider Niko Lorenzio for CSM XI. CSM matters, your voice matters, your vote matters!
Ravcharas Infinite Point Violence of Action. 471	Posted - 2016.04.12 19:53:36 - [1341] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: Can't wait for the "I quit" forum post from people burning themselves out on optional content. I understand that argument, I really do. But the thing is that something can be optional and compulsory at the same time. (Not mandatory compulsory, soft compulsory.) All it takes is that the payoff is high enough, or the punishment for abstaining is harsh enough -- and people will figure it out on their own. This is usually known as a false choice. And in games, which are supposed to be if not fun then at least entertaining, it's almost always a ****** thing. The best example I have on hand from Eve is the recently departed skillclones. It was completely optional to forego keeping your clone up to date. No one made you push that button. For characters that risked getting podded, the cost/benefit estimation was obvious. You keep it updated. If you didn't, there was a very real possibility that you would lose out on skillpoints. There was just no way you would chose the paltry isk savings over sp loss. That's not an interesting mechanic or system to engage with. It was just drag. (For characters that didn't risk getting podded, such as station traders, the cost/benefit was equally obvious. The risk of getting podded was zero and nil, so there was no way you would chose even a paltry cost to safeguard against a non-existant risk. Also not an interesting choice to make. But atleast you didn't have to engage with it at regular intervals.)
Indahmawar Fazmarai 5029	Posted - 2016.04.12 20:00:11 - [1342] - Quote Mizhir wrote: CCP Rise wrote: Another small update: Thanks to feedback we see that it would improve the experience quite a lot minimize the amount of characters available for this reward so we are going to limit the reward to the first character completing the daily task on each account. Thanks Still not making them weekly? Dailies are still a ***** for players who don't have the time or the desire to log into EVE each day but still play actively on the days they do. He already explained. The issue is the people who stopped login in daily because of the extended skill queue. Weekly rewards would do nothing to sort the issue.
S'Way 1414	Posted - 2016.04.12 20:21:59 - [1343] - Quote Was wondering how the total SP pool would be increased again (might also help keep extractor sales going ?) after players drained their alts. The idea does seem rushed and not well planned. For example if a player wants to stay -10 or only be a trader etc then they have to give up these SP's. Pushing players into a playstyle type or feel punished for not playing in a certain way in a sandbox game is just wrong - it's no longer a sandbox when that starts to happen. If this is going to be introduced though, at least let it benefit new players more - maybe double it for new accounts under 30 days old or something. (and at least make it reset with downtime not 22hrs). Those first few days when players see how long it takes to train into things can often be what makes up their mind to keep playing or not. The big concern is how this feature will be expanded on. If the plan is just to expand this to other gameplay styles (such as explorers, pirates etc) then that's not too worrying...however if it's to add more and more ways of getting SP's without any cap then that's not a good thing.
Neadayan Drakhon Heuristic Industrial And Development AddictClan 134	Posted - 2016.04.12 20:25:07 - [1344] - Quote CCP Rise wrote: Another small update: Thanks to feedback we see that it would improve the experience quite a lot minimize the amount of characters available for this reward so we are going to limit the reward to the first character completing the daily task on each account. Thanks Well, that's 2/3 of the way to an acceptable response. Just gotta drop the daily from that last character too and we're there. This idea needs to die.
aldhura Bartledannians Nite Owls 37	Posted - 2016.04.12 20:25:53 - [1345] - Quote Are sleepers considered NPC ?? Great idea, better than the skill injector method which sees older players getting "less" for the same isk. Bartledannians Corporation is recruiting Nite Owls Alliance is recruiting
Jack Growler Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 0	Posted - 2016.04.12 20:28:33 - [1346] - Quote Please don't do that CCP. I hate dailys, they are one of the worst game mechanics of mmo games. Of course nobody HAS to do them but the fact that you have the feeling you miss out on something because you can't or don't want to do stupid grind stuff every day is just bad and has in my opinion no place in EVE.
sero Hita Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 148	Posted - 2016.04.12 20:44:20 - [1347] - Quote Kym Mena wrote: Out of all the feedback here, the overwhelmingly negative feedback, the only thing you took from it was this? Is reading comprehension not a strong suit of yours or do you really not give a **** about what we've been saying? I have come to the conclusion that, as noted previously, your plan is proceeding on script in a bid to get us to shut up by saying "well, it's not as bad as the first idea". I have news for you, I will only acquiesce because I will stop believing that player feedback matters to CCP. I will not be the only one. How long after you lose our trust and respect do you expect to need a new log in "reward" to boost numbers again? I can't wait to hear what kind of feedback you all get in person, Fanfest should be really interesting. It will never seize to amaze me that people think requesting a roll back or that CCP tanks a project they have started, counts as constructive or valuable feedback. You should also have read the title before accusing people of being good at reading. It is pretty clear the change was coming no matter what. and tbh. If someone replied to a post of mine after I had asked for feedback, the way you have done, I would also ignore them. Being a customer does not mean you can use the developers as your own personal litterbox. Those who replied to rise without being an ass, got it reduced to only one account per day like they wanted. You can say they were played by CCP, but they got what wanted and you got what.... ??? that is right: dailies. congratulations "I'm all for pvp, don't get me wrong. I've ganked in Empire, blobed in low sec. Got T-shirts from every which-where.. But to be forced into a pvp confrontation that I didn't want is wrong ccp." RealFlisker
Erihn Sabrovich 7	Posted - 2016.04.12 20:47:40 - [1348] - Quote Somehow, I'd be glad if some stupid people who feel forced to do dailies "in order to keep their SP superiority" (although they say that SP don't matters so much) decide to quit playing... It'll be some less bastard and better for the game. Dailies ARE NOT REQUIRED... I already played several MMO with dailies and they are nothing else that things that you can do to spend some time when you feel bored. EVE is a PvP sandbox with no real content (no, powerblock politics and battles are NOT content, that's only people bragging about their deeds). PvE is rather limited (too few different missions so you end up doing the same again and again) so anything that can give something to do to people who are not in the mood to do PvP is good. If you think that you don't have any choice beside doing the dailies in order to not "lag behind", you'd better stop right now, you're taking this game way too seriously for your sanity. I've some heavy PvP'ers in my corp... that don't prevent them to sometimes go out on a mining-fleet with the rest of the corp... Their mining skills are not great but they don't give a s* about it... it just don't matter... it's fun as we are in fleet and on TS, doing something together... You also see corpmates that are mostly industrials going to these... for the same reason... and you sometimes see the miners/industrials/PvE/Explorers join some PvP fight with their corp mate too... With low-cost low-skill ships... and it's still fun... What ps me off is the way these "older players" are always going nuclear and saying "if you do that, I'll quit" (which they don't after all) every time someone talks about way to get SP like if they were protecting some treasure... It's not about removing them anything... it's about having the newcomers get more fun with the game... What is killing EVE is not the lack of content (it may help but it's not the main reason), it's these stupid players who feel "elite" because they belong to powerblock and can rule EVE's world... So, if that changes get on your nerves, feel free to leave... EVE will be better without you !!!
Drago Shouna Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire 334	Posted - 2016.04.12 20:51:09 - [1349] - Quote Mara Tessidar wrote: Maybe if this game wasn't boring as shit more people would log in and you wouldn't have to add dumb gimmicks like daily chores. So why exactly are you here?
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 2742	Posted - 2016.04.12 20:54:43 - [1350] - Quote Drago Shouna wrote: Mara Tessidar wrote: Maybe if this game wasn't boring as shit more people would log in and you wouldn't have to add dumb gimmicks like daily chores. So why exactly are you here? For the same reason people who hate daily will still run them. No control over what they do.
Mara Tessidar Hole Violence Goonswarm Federation 1180	Posted - 2016.04.12 21:00:28 - [1351] - Quote Drago Shouna wrote: Mara Tessidar wrote: Maybe if this game wasn't boring as shit more people would log in and you wouldn't have to add dumb gimmicks like daily chores. So why exactly are you here? to ruin your game
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 27365	Posted - 2016.04.12 21:14:13 - [1352] - Quote CCP Rise wrote: Another small update: Thanks to feedback we see that it would improve the experience quite a lot minimize the amount of characters available for this reward so we are going to limit the reward to the first character completing the daily task on each account. Thanks Get better glasses. That would not improve the experience a lot. All it does is make a painfully stupid idea less painfully stupid. As long as the GÇ£painfulGÇ¥ and GÇ£stupidGÇ¥ parts remain, the experience is not improved. You already have the feedback you need to actually improve the experience GÇö why aren't you acting on it? You knowGÇª Instead of 1) Rewarding SPGÇª 2) GÇªfor a specific activityGÇª 3) GÇªonce a day you should 1) Not reward SP, 2) not tie it to any activity, and 3) not make it daily. There. Improved, and massively so. Unlike your original idea, it will also actually benefit and work in favour of the stated (and implicit) intent of the proposal, as opposed to directly sabotage the effort. Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote: He already explained. The issue is the people who stopped login in daily because of the extended skill queue. Weekly rewards would do nothing to sort the issue. His explanation is nonsensical. The extended skill queue did not stop people from logging in daily, because it never required you to do so to begin with. The extended skill queue meant that people could stuff several weeks or months of skills into the queue, as opposed to maybe 30 days tops. If it had been a daily requirement to update your skill queue, the dip he's talking about should have manifested when the queue was first implemented, not 7 years later. He can claim otherwise until he's blue in the face, but that's just a fact of how the skill queue worked. He's going to have to come up with something far more clever if he want to argue against reality. His explanation is not a reason not to make it a weekly (or even monthly) tally; it's a pisspoor attempt at hiding the intent of the change: forcing people to log in more often than they've done since 2008. Erihn Sabrovich wrote: Dailies ARE NOT REQUIRED. GÇªbut they are forced, by the very nature of what's at stake. You can be as obnoxious and abusive as you like to people who recognise this, but that doesn't change the fact of the matter. And if you're forced to do something in a sandbox, the sandbox has been greatly diminished. Quote: EVE is a PvP sandbox with no real content Nonsense. It has tons of content: every form of player to player interaction and social dynamic that is generated by the underlying game mechanisms and the freedom of choice they provide. This mechanism, however, sharply curtails that freedom of choice. What is GÇ£killing EVEGÇ¥ is the lack of content GÇö specifically, the reduction in dynamics as the mechanics have grown more and more stale and predictable, and the many obstacles they've set up for free-form interaction between players. The conflict that has erupted in the last couple of weeks is exactly the kind of content the game thrives on, and unsurprisingly, the activity numbers have shot up. Meanwhile, CCP is begging people to accept a new mechanic that massively disincentivises such activities, instead trying to bribe them to engage in some of the most mind-numbing non-content the game GÇö indeed the MMO industry GÇö has to offer.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 27365	Posted - 2016.04.12 21:20:24 - [1353] - Quote sero Hita wrote: It will never seize to amaze me that people think requesting a roll back or that CCP tanks a project they have started, counts as constructive or valuable feedback. It is constructive and valuable feedback. Their being pigheaded and refusing to accept what's being said does not mean that the abortion of an idea they had is in any way worthy of development or implementation or that pointing out this laughable error is not constructive. Suggesting that someone should put the sledge down and not knock holes in a load-bearing wall is about as constructive as it gets GÇö far more so than just suggesting that they use a rubber mallet instead. The change of implement will not exactly keep the roof from falling in on their headsGÇª So I'm not entirely sure why you're so amazed by this?
Steijn Quay Industries 1053	Posted - 2016.04.12 21:26:54 - [1354] - Quote CCP Rise wrote: Another small update: Thanks to feedback we see that it would improve the experience quite a lot minimize the amount of characters available for this reward so we are going to limit the reward to the first character completing the daily task on each account. Thanks still no, bin it, scrap it, throw it away. Eve does not need this stupid idea in any form.
Valia Fournier Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 13	Posted - 2016.04.12 21:29:45 - [1355] - Quote Erihn Sabrovich wrote: What p**s me off is the way these "older players" are always going nuclear and saying "if you do that, I'll quit" (which they don't after all) every time someone talks about way to get SP like if they were protecting some treasure... It's not about removing them anything... it's about having the newcomers get more fun with the game... What is killing EVE is not the lack of content (it may help but it's not the main reason), it's these stupid players who feel "elite" because they belong to powerblock and can rule EVE's world... So, if that changes get on your nerves, feel free to leave... EVE will be better without you !!! You're awfully salty. Tell me where the powerblock touched you.
Moac Tor Cyber Core Stain Confederation 486	Posted - 2016.04.12 21:49:05 - [1356] - Quote CCP Rise wrote: Another small update: Thanks to feedback we see that it would improve the experience quite a lot minimize the amount of characters available for this reward so we are going to limit the reward to the first character completing the daily task on each account. Thanks This is a step in the right direction as the feature can now be more easily ignored as you have reduced the potential gain by 2/3 which is a start; go the final 1/3 and this idea will be perfect.... Modulated ECM Effects An Alternative to Skill Trading
Kovl Jita Flipping Inc. 35	Posted - 2016.04.12 22:06:46 - [1357] - Quote CCP Rise wrote: Another small update: Thanks to feedback we see that it would improve the experience quite a lot minimize the amount of characters available for this reward so we are going to limit the reward to the first character completing the daily task on each account. Thanks You have a few dozens of pages explaining why dailies are fundamentally stupid idea. And what kind of games this nonsense comes from. and why it exists there. It doesn't create activites or opportunites or w/e else you're imagining it does. It's primitive coerce-by-SP trick to make people log in and do a menial, primitive daily task which only leads to disliking the very game they are playing. This "idea" doesn't need a bandaid. Scrap it. Why are you so stubborn ? "Developer ego" ? Boss orders ? Ignorance ? PCU greed ?
Lugh Crow-Slave 1919	Posted - 2016.04.12 22:11:06 - [1358] - Quote Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote: Mizhir wrote: CCP Rise wrote: Another small update: Thanks to feedback we see that it would improve the experience quite a lot minimize the amount of characters available for this reward so we are going to limit the reward to the first character completing the daily task on each account. Thanks Still not making them weekly? Dailies are still a ***** for players who don't have the time or the desire to log into EVE each day but still play actively on the days they do. He already explained. The issue is the people who stopped login in daily because of the extended skill queue. Weekly rewards would do nothing to sort the issue. yes they will you could go A MOTH w/o changing your queue you did not need to be on every day how do you not remember that it was not very long ago Citadel worm hole tax
Tomika Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 30	Posted - 2016.04.12 22:34:02 - [1359] - Quote This thread is full of people essentially complaining that they are hopeless addicts with no willpower to resist operant conditioning.
Lugh Crow-Slave 1923	Posted - 2016.04.12 22:41:10 - [1360] - Quote Tomika wrote: This thread is full of people essentially complaining that they are hopeless addicts with no willpower to resist operant conditioning. you understand there is a difference between being addicted and conditioned right? Citadel worm hole tax
Chjna the Goose Flock 29	Posted - 2016.04.12 22:42:35 - [1361] - Quote CCP Rise wrote: Another small update: Thanks to feedback we see that it would improve the experience quite a lot minimize the amount of characters available for this reward so we are going to limit the reward to the first character completing the daily task on each account. Thanks You will have less players online in the long run if you burn us out more with stuff we do not like to do. If this in ANY way makes it into the game, a bit of our freedom is lost. NovaCat13 wrote: No thanks Still the best response Remove T2 BPOs
Petrified Old and Petrified Syndication TOG - The Older Gamers Alliance 380	Posted - 2016.04.12 22:52:22 - [1362] - Quote CCP Rise wrote: Another small update: Thanks to feedback we see that it would improve the experience quite a lot minimize the amount of characters available for this reward so we are going to limit the reward to the first character completing the daily task on each account. Thanks Not good enough. The issue was not the number of characters, but the "daily" reward itself. You say you want to encourage more logons into EVE, so make it a logon reward. Cloaking is the closest thing to a "Pause Game" button one can get while in space.
Jinrai Tremaine Meanwhile Elsewhere... 105	Posted - 2016.04.12 22:54:25 - [1363] - Quote CCP Rise wrote: Another small update: Thanks to feedback we see that it would improve the experience quite a lot minimize the amount of characters available for this reward so we are going to limit the reward to the first character completing the daily task on each account. Thanks Question: If you have a fleet with multiple characters in it, in order to qualify for the reward would each member have to land a killing blow on a rat themselves, or would they all get credit if they're all in fleet and on grid when any member kills a rat?
Arcturus Ursidae Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation 17	Posted - 2016.04.12 22:55:29 - [1364] - Quote If this has to happen the 22hr timer has to go. Anytime from down time to downtime at least please.
Drammie Askold The Senate and People of Rome Kids With Guns Alliance 24	Posted - 2016.04.12 23:04:07 - [1365] - Quote This idea was always going to be implemented but CCP will live to regret this change. The person who's idea I'm convinced this is, will by that time, have left for pastures new. Where do CSM XI candidates stand on the Velociraptor Issue?
Demica Diaz SE-1 300	Posted - 2016.04.12 23:18:56 - [1366] - Quote Anyone else getting feels that at Fanfest we will be getting EVE Garriso...cough Citadels with daily follower missions, spawning personal citadel mineral asteroids, fedo battles and salvage garden? Ok joking but seriouslly CCP... I am getting worried a bit.
Lugh Crow-Slave 1926	Posted - 2016.04.12 23:32:56 - [1367] - Quote Demica Diaz wrote: Anyone else getting feels that at Fanfest we will be getting EVE Garriso...cough Citadels with daily follower missions, spawning personal citadel mineral asteroids, fedo battles and salvage garden? Ok joking but seriouslly CCP... I am getting worried a bit. you see what we really need is personal systems that we can open up using a private wh you know its hard to take space but every one wants their own little system maybe there are daily item spawns and upgrades you can put in that build over the coarse of a few days that you can use aurm to speed up Citadel worm hole tax
Vol Arm'OOO Bagel and Lox 793	Posted - 2016.04.13 00:25:57 - [1368] - Quote The great thing about eve was no grind for experience. Now it seems that we on that slope straight down to grindsvile. I don't play, I just fourm warrior.
Kharnakh Arx Draconis 55	Posted - 2016.04.13 02:27:11 - [1369] - Quote Please don't make the daily reward SP. That feels far too much like a 'login daily for an xp boost!' that you would expect from some lesser free-type mmo. If the reward was say, aurum or some new LP that got you cosmetic items, that sort of thing, I could be much more onboard with this. Having people have to undock a frigate to warp to a belt and pop a rat for SP wont add a desire for people to play Eve, just an obligation to do so. In relation to the point about the old skill queues, it was never that you had to log in every 24 hours, just that you had to log in within 24 hours of the last skill you queued ending to add another. Training BS 5 skills for instance still meant you only had to log in once a month on the day they ended. (Think back to the old patch days, 'Remember to set a long skill!') Even before skill queues were introduced that was the same, just you had to do some creative skill changing to make sure long skills ended at a time you could be online to change it (either that or set an alarm clock) ;)
Lugh Crow-Slave 1994	Posted - 2016.04.13 02:29:47 - [1370] - Quote Kharnakh wrote: Please don't make the daily reward SP. That feels far too much like a 'login daily for an xp boost!' that you would expect from some lesser free-type mmo. what do you mean it feels like? that's exactly what it is Citadel worm hole tax
Maddaxe Illat Ascendant Logistics The Otherworld 14	Posted - 2016.04.13 03:39:37 - [1371] - Quote Dose ccp just pass a hat around once a month and say" Put the dumb thing you can think off on a piece of paper and put it in this hat." Then someone pull out said piece of paper and say thats a relly good idea?
Sgt Ocker Kenshin. DARKNESS. 901	Posted - 2016.04.13 03:46:55 - [1372] - Quote Jinrai Tremaine wrote: CCP Rise wrote: Another small update: Thanks to feedback we see that it would improve the experience quite a lot minimize the amount of characters available for this reward so we are going to limit the reward to the first character completing the daily task on each account. Thanks Question: If you have a fleet with multiple characters in it, in order to qualify for the reward would each member have to land a killing blow on a rat themselves, or would they all get credit if they're all in fleet and on grid when any member kills a rat? That is the best question yet. Logically if your in a fleet you should not be able to complete the task at all. It is a thing that requires an individual to complete a single task - Not a fleet. My opinions are mine. If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
NovaCat13 Seymourus and Co. 151	Posted - 2016.04.13 03:47:26 - [1373] - Quote My thoughts on the matter
Lugh Crow-Slave 2003	Posted - 2016.04.13 04:35:13 - [1374] - Quote I'd ask to hear what the CSM thinks of this but I'm starting to belive the rumors of how ccp has been treating them Citadel worm hole tax
Red zeon Sacred Templars Aggression. 27	Posted - 2016.04.13 05:01:05 - [1375] - Quote this is nothing that will make me stop playing eve, but i do feel disgusted by this idea. like a corp member said, what next? "Sp for linking to Facebook??"
Axhind Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation 139	Posted - 2016.04.13 05:09:44 - [1376] - Quote Red zeon wrote: this is nothing that will make me stop playing eve, but i do feel disgusted by this idea. like a corp member said, what next? "Sp for linking to Facebook??" For love of god don't give them any more terrible ideas! They are already doing great in that department on their own, no need for external help.
Niko Lorenzio United Eve Directorate 616	Posted - 2016.04.13 05:33:40 - [1377] - Quote Actually Aurum reward is an interesting proposal. No ingame method of acquiring it so it would be valuable but not game breaking. Make a small amount of Aurum as the reward please. And make it based on Discovery so that everyone can participate without being forced into activities they don't want/can't do. The CSM XI Election are now open until March 25th, 2016. Consider Niko Lorenzio for CSM XI. CSM matters, your voice matters, your vote matters!
Lugh Crow-Slave 2020	Posted - 2016.04.13 05:37:20 - [1378] - Quote Niko Lorenzio wrote: Actually Aurum reward is an interesting proposal. No ingame method of acquiring it so it would be valuable but not game breaking. Make a small amount of Aurum as the reward please. And make it based on Discovery so that everyone can participate without being forced into activities they don't want/can't do. .... but discovery is something I don't want to do Aso for aurum if this idea is going to be implemented (and our is) that would definitely be the least damaging valid reward Citadel worm hole tax
Maddaxe Illat Ascendant Logistics The Otherworld 20	Posted - 2016.04.13 06:23:43 - [1379] - Quote Why Skillpoints? There's been a lot of feedback here that this kind of feature would be acceptable if the rewards were more monetary, either LP or ISK or something similar. There's a few reasons that doesn't really work and we feel pulled towards SP. I think the biggest one is that many people simply won't be motivated by LP or ISK, especially in the amounts we would be restricted to giving. SP simply has higher demand across more playstyles and player ages and that just makes it a more powerful incentive. Second big reason that we actually tried designs using item and ISK rewards and it quickly creates a lot of economic imbalances. Any time we are giving something away without much activity cost we are heavily sabotaging someone's gameplay. Whether it's because of devaluing LP, causing major inflation, or crashing item markets, it's all bad for you guys so we would rather avoid it. but skill points can be sold for isk so the reason here is floored. Because would this not also **** up the market also?
Lugh Crow-Slave 2021	Posted - 2016.04.13 06:28:53 - [1380] - Quote Maddaxe Illat wrote: Why Skillpoints? There's been a lot of feedback here that this kind of feature would be acceptable if the rewards were more monetary, either LP or ISK or something similar. There's a few reasons that doesn't really work and we feel pulled towards SP. I think the biggest one is that many people simply won't be motivated by LP or ISK, especially in the amounts we would be restricted to giving. SP simply has higher demand across more playstyles and player ages and that just makes it a more powerful incentive. Second big reason that we actually tried designs using item and ISK rewards and it quickly creates a lot of economic imbalances. Any time we are giving something away without much activity cost we are heavily sabotaging someone's gameplay. Whether it's because of devaluing LP, causing major inflation, or crashing item markets, it's all bad for you guys so we would rather avoid it. but skill points can be sold for isk so the reason here is floored. Because would this not also **** up the market also? Not to mention is not that it would be acceptable if it was not sp just that it would not be as bad Citadel worm hole tax
Urziel99 Unified Research and Industrial 140	Posted - 2016.04.13 06:32:36 - [1381] - Quote Maddaxe Illat wrote: but skill points can be sold for isk so the reason here is floored. Because would this not also **** up the market also? You'd have to run the daily for 50 days to get enough free sp to fill one extractor. Pretty sure the market can tolerate that.
Jeremiah Saken The Fall of Leviathan 537	Posted - 2016.04.13 06:42:22 - [1382] - Quote Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: I'd ask to hear what the CSM thinks of this but I'm starting to belive the rumors of how ccp has been treating them Why do you want to know CSM opinions? Almost all CSM memebers were against SP trading, still implemented. It's all about money. CSM has zero impact on CCP decisions. in the meantime article on CZ: A Tribute to Bad Design Funny thing, I will benefit from those dailies because I shoot rats every day in explo combat sites Reward for activity I'm doing every day anyway... "(...) I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas (...)" "Here in the garden of the arcane delights dark shadows overwhelm us and and we become blind..."
Indahmawar Fazmarai 5037	Posted - 2016.04.13 07:01:14 - [1383] - Quote Tippia wrote: (...) Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote: He already explained. The issue is the people who stopped login in daily because of the extended skill queue. Weekly rewards would do nothing to sort the issue. His explanation is nonsensical. The extended skill queue did not stop people from logging in daily, because it never required you to do so to begin with. The extended skill queue meant that people could stuff several weeks or months of skills into the queue, as opposed to maybe 30 days tops. If it had been a daily requirement to update your skill queue, the dip he's talking about should have manifested when the queue was first implemented, not 7 years later. He can claim otherwise until he's blue in the face, but that's just a fact of how the skill queue worked. He's going to have to come up with something far more clever if he want to argue against reality. His explanation is not a reason not to make it a weekly (or even monthly) tally; it's a pisspoor attempt at hiding the intent of the change: forcing people to log in more often than they've done since 2008.(...) Well, I've been discussing a lot the steep decline in PCU. My main argument being (and is) that most people pay CCP for the PvE, PvE is a short career with poor quality and that kills population faster than anything else in the game, thus in the last years people who start playing are outnumbered by the continued pressure of quitting PvErs. That drives PCU down despite all of CCP's increasingly desperate efforts to improve PvP, quality of life and anything but PvE as PvErs want it. In this context, one of the usual counter-arguments is that multiple character training and long skillqueues are to blame for PCU going down. So when CCP comes and tells us that unlimited skillqueues have taken a toll on server population after Phoebe, I am more or less willing to take their word for it. It goes a bit against my main argument but makes sense. We may discuss whether it's bullshit or don't, but there's one deeper layer into it: lower PCU (which is real) is toxic to EVE and CCP. Enough toxic to lead CCP into taking a controversial step to bribe players into becoming/providing content by just loggin in and being exposed to the sandbox. As someone who would profit from this measure (pennies from heaven just for playing my way), I am perfectly OK with it. To me, it's a nice bribe to counter the desperate stupidity of higher NPC taxes in the futile attempts to make Citadels into acceptable trade hubs.
Nevyn Auscent Broke Sauce 3170	Posted - 2016.04.13 07:20:32 - [1384] - Quote Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote: We may discuss whether it's bullshit or don't, but there's one deeper layer into it: lower PCU (which is real) is toxic to EVE and CCP. Enough toxic to lead CCP into taking a controversial step to bribe players into becoming/providing content by just loggin in and being exposed to the sandbox.. Regardless of if the PCU issue is true, 5 minutes of login is not going to significantly add to the concurrent PCU which is the count that players get to see. It may affect the unique logins per day but that is a hidden statistic that only CCP can see how many Players, and Players is the important statistic not accounts, are logged in per day. Daily kill one NPC quests do not add content to the game in a significant manner, and they do not add significant engagement for the player. And they go directly against the 'EVE doesn't have an SP grind' selling point, not to mention making fools of everyone who claimed that Sp injectors were not the start of a slippery slope, because this right here is the next part of the slippery slope mere months later.
Lugh Crow-Slave 2023	Posted - 2016.04.13 07:24:49 - [1385] - Quote Nevyn Auscent wrote: Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote: We may discuss whether it's bullshit or don't, but there's one deeper layer into it: lower PCU (which is real) is toxic to EVE and CCP. Enough toxic to lead CCP into taking a controversial step to bribe players into becoming/providing content by just loggin in and being exposed to the sandbox.. Regardless of if the PCU issue is true, 5 minutes of login is not going to significantly add to the concurrent PCU which is the count that players get to see. It may affect the unique logins per day but that is a hidden statistic that only CCP can see how many Players, and Players is the important statistic not accounts, are logged in per day. Daily kill one NPC quests do not add content to the game in a significant manner, and they do not add significant engagement for the player. And they go directly against the 'EVE doesn't have an SP grind' selling point, not to mention making fools of everyone who claimed that Sp injectors were not the start of a slippery slope, because this right here is the next part of the slippery slope mere months later. Not to mention weer know ccp was blatantly dishonest with us when they said training would be the only way to get sp fir the injector because this was in the works when they posted that So at the very least we know they don't respect is enough to tell us the truth Citadel worm hole tax
Tomika Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 30	Posted - 2016.04.13 08:04:38 - [1386] - Quote Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Tomika wrote: This thread is full of people essentially complaining that they are hopeless addicts with no willpower to resist operant conditioning. you understand there is a difference between being addicted and conditioned right? If you are neither addicted nor weak willed there is no reason for you to whine about being 'forced' to do something.
Raphendyr Nardieu Unpublished Chapter Suddenly Content 78	Posted - 2016.04.13 08:07:50 - [1387] - Quote I tried to think the goals of CCP and how to get there. So the idea is that player would think "I would like to have more SP, so what would I need to do?", but if one plays the game already with all of hes alts the reward should be more or less automatic. Second goal is to get more players "active" in the sandbox so they can effect others or at least make it seem there is others in space too. At least personally seeing someone is undocking hauler and probably transporting some goods feels nice even if I'm not there to shoot him. Idea 1, activity counter: So, could we just track the activity? Basically if one is in space for 15-60 minutes (I don't take oppinion about the amount) and active. The active is counted from actions coming from the client e.g. warp to, aproach, lockj, shoto etc etc etc... At least for AT there was some technic to count actions per minute, thus if there is at least one aciton per minute for total of 60 minutes I would count that as active for 60 minutes. You could even make it so that specific actions count to it too e.g. killing a rat would count as 5 minutes of activity or selling 100m3 of items in market as 5 minutes too. But basic idea stands, one should be active e.g. 60 minutes per day. This way it could also be balanced for weekend actives too, so every day system would add 60 minutes to the counter and when ever you get that to 0 you would get the reward for all of the additions (thus being active 7 hours on Saturday would cound for total of 70k SP). Of course with limit of 7 hours and 70k SP, thus being away for 2 weeks wouldn't count. Idea 2, task pool: Lets think these as agent missions, but real implementation sohuld count them automaticalle (so no need to click accept mission etc). Let's have more than 7 tasks to do. Few of them would be kill npc in different spaces (so one for wh, ns, hs and ls). So one would do one would kill npc in hisec. That would check that task completed with some reward. At any given time one can have max of 7 done tasks. So if you do 7 tasks today, you could complete any for that day. When tasks is complete it would start timer of 20-24h to reopen that task. Thus you could repeat to kill npc in hisec daily. If there is one task that has timer running, second completed task would go to queue for refresh, thus if you would do 7 tasks, it would take around a week for you to do another 7 tasks. So this would allow doing the same task daily for daily reward as same as current proposed system, but it would also make it possible to do 7 tasks in weekend for those that can't be there in weekdays. conclusion: So the basic design behind these both ideas is to make it possible to do your acitivity on smaller calendar days, but would require more activity from the player in those., but still keeping the total required activity same per day. I would prefer the first as that should be easiest to balance in the end. It would also make it possible to just scout the eve to count as activity or being an hauler that just takes stuff from place A to B. If market gets counted well enough it should work for market traders too. Any case I hope weget some day away from specific action to a lot of more actions. Also I would create "what to do" page for people that they could look for things to do. Though I would it would be more or less the opportunities system, but maybe a extra tab with "opportunities that you haven't done in a while". Well.. these are my thoughs I hope they help in some way.
Lugh Crow-Slave 2028	Posted - 2016.04.13 08:11:56 - [1388] - Quote Raphendyr Nardieu wrote: I tried to think the goals of CCP and how to get there. So the idea is that player would think "I would like to have more SP, so what would I need to do?", but if one plays the game already with all of hes alts the reward should be more or less automatic. Second goal is to get more players "active" in the sandbox so they can effect others or at least make it seem there is others in space too. At least personally seeing someone is undocking hauler and probably transporting some goods feels nice even if I'm not there to shoot him. Idea 1, activity counter: So, could we just track the activity? Basically if one is in space for 15-60 minutes (I don't take oppinion about the amount) and active. The active is counted from actions coming from the client e.g. warp to, aproach, lockj, shoto etc etc etc... At least for AT there was some technic to count actions per minute, thus if there is at least one aciton per minute for total of 60 minutes I would count that as active for 60 minutes. You could even make it so that specific actions count to it too e.g. killing a rat would count as 5 minutes of activity or selling 100m3 of items in market as 5 minutes too. But basic idea stands, one should be active e.g. 60 minutes per day. This way it could also be balanced for weekend actives too, so every day system would add 60 minutes to the counter and when ever you get that to 0 you would get the reward for all of the additions (thus being active 7 hours on Saturday would cound for total of 70k SP). Of course with limit of 7 hours and 70k SP, thus being away for 2 weeks wouldn't count. Idea 2, task pool: Lets think these as agent missions, but real implementation sohuld count them automaticalle (so no need to click accept mission etc). Let's have more than 7 tasks to do. Few of them would be kill npc in different spaces (so one for wh, ns, hs and ls). So one would do one would kill npc in hisec. That would check that task completed with some reward. At any given time one can have max of 7 done tasks. So if you do 7 tasks today, you could complete any for that day. When tasks is complete it would start timer of 20-24h to reopen that task. Thus you could repeat to kill npc in hisec daily. If there is one task that has timer running, second completed task would go to queue for refresh, thus if you would do 7 tasks, it would take around a week for you to do another 7 tasks. So this would allow doing the same task daily for daily reward as same as current proposed system, but it would also make it possible to do 7 tasks in weekend for those that can't be there in weekdays. conclusion: So the basic design behind these both ideas is to make it possible to do your acitivity on smaller calendar days, but would require more activity from the player in those., but still keeping the total required activity same per day. I would prefer the first as that should be easiest to balance in the end. It would also make it possible to just scout the eve to count as activity or being an hauler that just takes stuff from place A to B. If market gets counted well enough it should work for market traders too. Any case I hope weget some day away from specific action to a lot of more actions. Also I would create "what to do" page for people that they could look for things to do. Though I would it would be more or less the opportunities system, but maybe a extra tab with "opportunities that you haven't done in a while". Well.. these are my thoughs I hope they help in some way. So with idea one in still being told how long to play And with idea two in still being told what to do just with a small amount of choice No this idea is not better in fact it's worse Citadel worm hole tax
Lavayar Russian SOBR Dream Fleet 260	Posted - 2016.04.13 08:51:00 - [1389] - Quote Raphendyr Nardieu wrote: I tried to think the goals of CCP and how to get there. So the idea is that player would think "I would like to have more SP, so what would I need to do?", but if one plays the game already with all of hes alts the reward should be more or less automatic. .... So, you have created one mindless "human bot".
Shallanna Yassavi Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 127	Posted - 2016.04.13 08:55:54 - [1390] - Quote Raphendyr Nardieu wrote: I tried to think the goals of CCP and how to get there. So the idea is that player would think "I would like to have more SP, so what would I need to do?", but if one plays the game already with all of hes alts the reward should be more or less automatic. Second goal is to get more players "active" in the sandbox so they can effect others or at least make it seem there is others in space too. At least personally seeing someone is undocking hauler and probably transporting some goods feels nice even if I'm not there to shoot him. Idea 1, activity counter: So, could we just track the activity? Basically if one is in space for 15-60 minutes (I don't take oppinion about the amount) and active. The active is counted from actions coming from the client e.g. warp to, aproach, lockj, shoto etc etc etc... At least for AT there was some technic to count actions per minute, thus if there is at least one aciton per minute for total of 60 minutes I would count that as active for 60 minutes. You could even make it so that specific actions count to it too e.g. killing a rat would count as 5 minutes of activity or selling 100m3 of items in market as 5 minutes too. But basic idea stands, one should be active e.g. 60 minutes per day. This way it could also be balanced for weekend actives too, so every day system would add 60 minutes to the counter and when ever you get that to 0 you would get the reward for all of the additions (thus being active 7 hours on Saturday would cound for total of 70k SP). Of course with limit of 7 hours and 70k SP, thus being away for 2 weeks wouldn't count. Idea 2, task pool: Lets think these as agent missions, but real implementation sohuld count them automaticalle (so no need to click accept mission etc). Let's have more than 7 tasks to do. Few of them would be kill npc in different spaces (so one for wh, ns, hs and ls). So one would do one would kill npc in hisec. That would check that task completed with some reward. At any given time one can have max of 7 done tasks. So if you do 7 tasks today, you could complete any for that day. When tasks is complete it would start timer of 20-24h to reopen that task. Thus you could repeat to kill npc in hisec daily. If there is one task that has timer running, second completed task would go to queue for refresh, thus if you would do 7 tasks, it would take around a week for you to do another 7 tasks. So this would allow doing the same task daily for daily reward as same as current proposed system, but it would also make it possible to do 7 tasks in weekend for those that can't be there in weekdays. conclusion: So the basic design behind these both ideas is to make it possible to do your acitivity on smaller calendar days, but would require more activity from the player in those., but still keeping the total required activity same per day. I would prefer the first as that should be easiest to balance in the end. It would also make it possible to just scout the eve to count as activity or being an hauler that just takes stuff from place A to B. If market gets counted well enough it should work for market traders too. Any case I hope weget some day away from specific action to a lot of more actions. Also I would create "what to do" page for people that they could look for things to do. Though I would it would be more or less the opportunities system, but maybe a extra tab with "opportunities that you haven't done in a while". Well.. these are my thoughs I hope they help in some way. These proposals don't tell us what to do. They tell us how many things to do and when to do them. That's not an improvement. A signature :o
Mizhir TURN LEFT 74732	Posted - 2016.04.13 09:17:38 - [1391] - Quote Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote: Tippia wrote: (...) Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote: He already explained. The issue is the people who stopped login in daily because of the extended skill queue. Weekly rewards would do nothing to sort the issue. His explanation is nonsensical. The extended skill queue did not stop people from logging in daily, because it never required you to do so to begin with. The extended skill queue meant that people could stuff several weeks or months of skills into the queue, as opposed to maybe 30 days tops. If it had been a daily requirement to update your skill queue, the dip he's talking about should have manifested when the queue was first implemented, not 7 years later. He can claim otherwise until he's blue in the face, but that's just a fact of how the skill queue worked. He's going to have to come up with something far more clever if he want to argue against reality. His explanation is not a reason not to make it a weekly (or even monthly) tally; it's a pisspoor attempt at hiding the intent of the change: forcing people to log in more often than they've done since 2008.(...) Well, I've been discussing a lot the steep decline in PCU. My main argument being (and is) that most people pay CCP for the PvE, PvE is a short career with poor quality and that kills population faster than anything else in the game, thus in the last years people who start playing are outnumbered by the continued pressure of quitting PvErs. That drives PCU down despite all of CCP's increasingly desperate efforts to improve PvP, quality of life and anything but PvE as PvErs want it. In this context, one of the usual counter-arguments is that multiple character training and long skillqueues are to blame for PCU going down. So when CCP comes and tells us that unlimited skillqueues have taken a toll on server population after Phoebe, I am more or less willing to take their word for it. It goes a bit against my main argument but makes sense. We may discuss whether it's bullshit or don't, but there's one deeper layer into it: lower PCU (which is real) is toxic to EVE and CCP. Enough toxic to lead CCP into taking a controversial step to bribe players into becoming/providing content by just loggin in and being exposed to the sandbox. As someone who would profit from this measure (pennies from heaven just for playing my way), I am perfectly OK with it. To me, it's a nice bribe to counter the desperate stupidity of higher NPC taxes in the futile attempts to make Citadels into acceptable trade hubs. How is Dailies gonna fix this? If PVEers are quitting because of burnout from PVE then dailies wouldn't make PVE any more interesting. Instead they will most lkely just log in a do dailies and then log out afterwards until they burn out of that as well which in the end may extend their activity for 1-2 weeks but still wouldn't make them return to the game. I have been in many games where I slowly drifted into the 'just do dailies and then log out' cycle as I was burning out of the game and it honestly leaves a rather negative experiance of the game. One Man Crew - Collective Solo PVP - Video is out!
Damjan Fox Fox Industries and Exploration 279	Posted - 2016.04.13 10:13:37 - [1392] - Quote I like free SP just as much, as anyone here. But this is a terrible idea. CCP Rise wrote: Now, with before and after data we can see that making it into the client is a huge step towards real activity, even if the reason for logging in in the first place seems artificial. So this leads us to where we are now, attempting to find ways to create more logins that also don't feel like such a punishment as the skill queue limitations did. Then give out SP for just logging in and scrap the absolutely meaningless "Kill 1 NPC" idea. CCP Rise wrote: SP simply has higher demand across more playstyles and player ages and that just makes it a more powerful incentive. Rise, what about the Skill Trading Dev-Blog, where you said: "ItGÇÖs very important to note here that this means all the skillpoints available to buy on the market in EVE will have originated on other characters where they were trained at the normal rate. Player driven economies are key to EVE design and we want you to decide the value of traded skillpoints while we make sure there is one single mechanism that brings new skillpoints in to the system GÇô training." CCP Rise wrote: We want you to be able to collect this reward during a lunch break or a 10 minute period where your kids are in timeout... And how is this supposed to lead to "meaningful gameplay", if i'm just logged in for 10 or 15 minutes? CCP Rise wrote: ...but also want to make sure there's some real gameplay associated with it. But there is NO real gameplay associated with it. It's turning players into daily grinding bots, doing meaningless stuff. Very much against it. Regards, Damjan Proposal: >>> New Inventory / Item Hangar <<<
Jeremiah Saken The Fall of Leviathan 541	Posted - 2016.04.13 10:43:04 - [1393] - Quote Damjan Fox wrote: CCP Rise wrote: SP simply has higher demand across more playstyles and player ages and that just makes it a more powerful incentive. Rise, what about the Skill Trading Dev-Blog, where you said: "ItGÇÖs very important to note here that this means all the skillpoints available to buy on the market in EVE will have originated on other characters where they were trained at the normal rate. Player driven economies are key to EVE design and we want you to decide the value of traded skillpoints while we make sure there is one single mechanism that brings new skillpoints in to the system GÇô training." Mr. Fox are you serious? Few years ago CCP make a statement that there won't be any options to buy SP. Times go by, people are changing. BOOM skill points trading. I guess changes just gain momentum. Nothing is set in stone - favourite Seagull saying. In terms of making money ofc. I resubbed after 3 months. Now I don't know why. Bull**** camera change (because of citadels), tax changes (because of citadels), probe window didn't touch since my last loggon at the start of the year (because every resource is redirected to citadels). From the model of patch every 6 weeks we are going back to 2 expansion per year with many little things that could be done easily, forgotten (sorry guys changing DCU icon is not a feature, adding 3 background or extra SKINs also). If I may point out worst management in history of gaming guess who would be my bet. All they care about is PCU... "(...) I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas (...)" "Here in the garden of the arcane delights dark shadows overwhelm us and and we become blind..."
Amak Boma Dragon Factory 184	Posted - 2016.04.13 10:45:18 - [1394] - Quote does daily opportunities will require specific ship and specific system to do the mission? or we can go in any ship and go kill some things in 0.4 systems? i.e i want to go with smartbomb battleship to asteroid belt and blast the rats in dehrokh (0.4) why not give us also pvp opportunities , so we get certain task to kill another player ship and eventually his capsule thus could include suicide ganking but i see problem with pvp opportunities you can kill your own alt but here is workaround you wont get the reward for killing own corporation members, for one of your other account/character so to claim reward you have to do valid pvp fight
Shallanna Yassavi Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 129	Posted - 2016.04.13 10:47:43 - [1395] - Quote Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote: Tippia wrote: (...) Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote: He already explained. The issue is the people who stopped login in daily because of the extended skill queue. Weekly rewards would do nothing to sort the issue. His explanation is nonsensical. The extended skill queue did not stop people from logging in daily, because it never required you to do so to begin with. The extended skill queue meant that people could stuff several weeks or months of skills into the queue, as opposed to maybe 30 days tops. If it had been a daily requirement to update your skill queue, the dip he's talking about should have manifested when the queue was first implemented, not 7 years later. He can claim otherwise until he's blue in the face, but that's just a fact of how the skill queue worked. He's going to have to come up with something far more clever if he want to argue against reality. His explanation is not a reason not to make it a weekly (or even monthly) tally; it's a pisspoor attempt at hiding the intent of the change: forcing people to log in more often than they've done since 2008.(...) Well, I've been discussing a lot the steep decline in PCU. My main argument being (and is) that most people pay CCP for the PvE, PvE is a short career with poor quality and that kills population faster than anything else in the game, thus in the last years people who start playing are outnumbered by the continued pressure of quitting PvErs. That drives PCU down despite all of CCP's increasingly desperate efforts to improve PvP, quality of life and anything but PvE as PvErs want it. In this context, one of the usual counter-arguments is that multiple character training and long skillqueues are to blame for PCU going down. So when CCP comes and tells us that unlimited skillqueues have taken a toll on server population after Phoebe, I am more or less willing to take their word for it. It goes a bit against my main argument but makes sense. That wouldn't surprise me. Unfortunately, giving these guys skillpoints for what they already do and find boring isn't going to help. There's also the problem that PvE content is expensive. The devs of SWTOR came up with a dirty trick to make PvE content seem like it had more variety than it actually did. The Kuat Drive Yards flashpoint (dungeon) was linear as usual, but it would pick 3 of 5ish trash rooms and 1 of 3 boss fights, which led to a different sequence of fights every time. Or we could hear a voice-acted Kruul raging at us whenever we plowed through his minions on a similar theory (random selection of first dialog -> random selection of next). They could have a lot of fun making PvE sound alive. Not necessarily equal-random: rare enough that someone will say "Heh, never heard that one before!" on the 100th time, or depending on what kind of ship you throw at the mission, or if you bring friends. Sound and dialog add pure flavor, no ISK, no skillpoints, and, most importantly, is not telling us when we have to rescue another distressed damsel. Or if we bring a fleet, any mission about The Seven could have them shout some flavor of "You mock us!" or a different version of the mission. There's PvE stuff which can be done with the engine as it exists right now. Which would shoot the moon with development costs because of all the languages... Or, if we want to really put the sandbox into it, have a mission design contest once in a while. We do the imagination and theorycrafting and surprise each other what we come up with. But that's not what this thread is about, and it's most definitely not why we've hit page 70. Quote: We may discuss whether it's bullshit or don't, but there's one deeper layer into it: lower PCU (which is real) is toxic to EVE and CCP. Enough toxic to lead CCP into taking a controversial step to bribe players into becoming/providing content by just loggin in and being exposed to the sandbox. As someone who would profit from this measure (pennies from heaven just for playing my way), I am perfectly OK with it. To me, it's a nice bribe to counter the desperate stupidity of higher NPC taxes in the futile attempts to make Citadels into acceptable trade hubs. Would you be OK if they made you burn ~25M in other-player assets instead of the rat? It's a threadnaught because the OP says they're going to make a very simple and blunt attempt at telling us how and how often to play the game, and it's a huge no-no in a game where the only real objective is to go places, meet people, and be free to do (almost) anything we want with and to each other and the space around us. A signature :o
Lugh Crow-Slave 2040	Posted - 2016.04.13 10:50:37 - [1396] - Quote Jeremiah Saken wrote: Nothing is set in stone - favourite Seagull saying. . I guess when I heard that I thought core eve ideals were at the least in pen and laminated Citadel worm hole tax
Damjan Fox Fox Industries and Exploration 280	Posted - 2016.04.13 10:52:17 - [1397] - Quote Quote: Few years ago CCP make a statement that there won't be any options to buy SP. Times go by, people are changing. BOOM skill points trading. I guess changes just gain momentum. Nothing is set in stone The only difference here is, that the Dev blog, i was quoting, was 3 months ago, not years. The Daily Quests are ready for deployment on Sisi. So, i guess, it took less than 3 months from the first idea to the finished feature? If not, that would mean CCP Rise lied to us... Proposal: >>> New Inventory / Item Hangar <<<
Lugh Crow-Slave 2040	Posted - 2016.04.13 10:54:39 - [1398] - Quote Amak Boma wrote: does daily opportunities will require specific ship and specific system to do the mission? or we can go in any ship and go kill some things in 0.4 systems? i.e i want to go with smartbomb battleship to asteroid belt and blast the rats in dehrokh (0.4) why not give us also pvp opportunities , so we get certain task to kill another player ship and eventually his capsule thus could include suicide ganking but i see problem with pvp opportunities you can kill your own alt but here is workaround you wont get the reward for killing own corporation members, for one of your other account/character so to claim reward you have to do valid pvp fight Making us do more things is worse not better Also most of my alts are not in the same corp so how does this help? And even if it didn't let it count for one of my other accounts I have plenty of friends in other chirps/alliances Citadel worm hole tax
Lugh Crow-Slave 2040	Posted - 2016.04.13 10:56:16 - [1399] - Quote Damjan Fox wrote: Quote: Few years ago CCP make a statement that there won't be any options to buy SP. Times go by, people are changing. BOOM skill points trading. I guess changes just gain momentum. Nothing is set in stone The only difference here is, that the Dev blog, i was quoting, was 3 months ago, not years. The Daily Quests are ready for deployment on Sisi. So, i guess, it took less than 3 months from the first idea to the finished feature? If not, that would mean CCP Rise lied to us... No he lied dailies were talked about a few years ago just back then it was more along the lines of your first mission of the day had a better lp payout I doubt they swapped to sp in the last 3 months at the very least they knew it was a possibility Citadel worm hole tax
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 17643	Posted - 2016.04.13 10:58:47 - [1400] - Quote Damjan Fox wrote: Quote: Few years ago CCP make a statement that there won't be any options to buy SP. Times go by, people are changing. BOOM skill points trading. I guess changes just gain momentum. Nothing is set in stone The only difference here is, that the Dev blog, i was quoting, was 3 months ago, not years. The Daily Quests are ready for deployment on Sisi. So, i guess, it took less than 3 months from the first idea to the finished feature? If not, that would mean CCP Rise lied to us... It's such a crappy low-effort change that I wouldn't be surprised if it was done in 3 days. "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
Aydan Talvanen Bros Before Holes The Devils' Rejects 3	Posted - 2016.04.13 11:17:12 - [1401] - Quote CCP, PLEASE RECONSIDER THIS! [To Matthew Woodward, senior designer at EVE Online developer CCP, ['Sandbox'] is really hard to define, because it's so ingrained in what we do, that we know what it is, but it's hard to put into words," he tells Gamasutra. But he offers up a pretty good definition anyhow. "Basically it's three things: being social, goal-driven and emergent -- making a game open, giving players control, essentially, and if you're making a multiplayer game, making it as social as possible, because that's why they're playing the game in the first place." ] http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/179811/EVE_Online_and_the_meaning_of_sandbox.php What happened to the sandbox? What happened to the player driven universe? Didn't we learn from other MMOs how daily missions are bad? Look at WoW, they make playing the game a daily obligation, it makes you do stupid things like "killing a certain NPC" each 24 hours because if you don't others will have the advantage. We have two problems here: 1 - CCP desire to make the game more noob friendly and appealing to generic MMO players. This alone would be the worst thing ever done to this game, the moment you ** up the game in order to appeal to a broader market like Sony did with Star Wars Galaxies, you're officially killing EVE. 2 - In doing so, you're implementing ** dailies where the right thing to do (if you want to improve PvE and narrative) is to implement new lore and modern missions related to the NPC empires. I understand that you may want to make it possible to new players gain SP in alternative ways like rich people can with money, but this is NOT the right way to do it and we all fuing know it. NUKE IT FROM ORBIT!
Lugh Crow-Slave 2041	Posted - 2016.04.13 11:35:38 - [1402] - Quote Aydan Talvanen wrote: CCP, PLEASE RECONSIDER THIS! [To Matthew Woodward, senior designer at EVE Online developer CCP, ['Sandbox'] is really hard to define, because it's so ingrained in what we do, that we know what it is, but it's hard to put into words," he tells Gamasutra. But he offers up a pretty good definition anyhow. "Basically it's three things: being social, goal-driven and emergent -- making a game open, giving players control, essentially, and if you're making a multiplayer game, making it as social as possible, because that's why they're playing the game in the first place." ] http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/179811/EVE_Online_and_the_meaning_of_sandbox.php What happened to the sandbox? What happened to the player driven universe? Didn't we learn from other MMOs how daily missions are bad? Look at WoW, they make playing the game a daily obligation, it makes you do stupid things like "killing a certain NPC" each 24 hours because if you don't others will have the advantage. We have two problems here: 1 - CCP desire to make the game more noob friendly and appealing to generic MMO players. This alone would be the worst thing ever done to this game, the moment you ** up the game in order to appeal to a broader market like Sony did with Star Wars Galaxies, you're officially killing EVE. 2 - In doing so, you're implementing ** dailies where the right thing to do (if you want to improve PvE and narrative) is to implement new lore and modern missions related to the NPC empires. I understand that you may want to make it possible to new players gain SP in alternative ways like rich people can with money, but this is NOT the right way to do it and we all fuing know it. NUKE IT FROM ORBIT! OH ccp could care less about the sand box and the npe when it comes to this change is all down to the PCU Citadel worm hole tax
Jeremiah Saken The Fall of Leviathan 542	Posted - 2016.04.13 11:41:18 - [1403] - Quote Malcanis wrote: It's such a crappy low-effort change that I wouldn't be surprised if it was done in 3 days. They need to hire more EA leftovers. I mean seriously why Rise is taking over such project like this. He's a pvper there are no modules/hull left to be balanced? First log in last weekend. How do I feel? Like this whole game was "work in progress". Try beta this..., beta that...My UI reseted somehow. 30 mintues of clicking on boxes... I feel Iike I had few years brake not 3 months. CCP think they got finished product they just need to sell it now. Wrong. There is no coherent vision how to connect huge changes with acquaring new players imo. There will be spike on new players coming with citadels, you want to hook them by dailies Rise? "(...) I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas (...)" "Here in the garden of the arcane delights dark shadows overwhelm us and and we become blind..."
Sunset Airguitar Aliastra Gallente Federation 3	Posted - 2016.04.13 11:47:03 - [1404] - Quote Don't do this! Think of all the people with no self control who will be compelled to log in every day to do something they hate
Aydan Talvanen Bros Before Holes The Devils' Rejects 4	Posted - 2016.04.13 11:48:03 - [1405] - Quote Jeremiah Saken wrote: There will be spike on new players coming with citadels, you want to hook them by dailies Rise? God... this is one of the most absurd changes I've ever seen in this game.
Sean Crees Sean's Safe Haven 36	Posted - 2016.04.13 11:50:47 - [1406] - Quote Cynical-Saint Sunji wrote: I think your goal would be better achieved if there was an SP rate boost any time you have a Limited Engagement Timer. It is a better indicator of someone creating content. And the more content they create, the more SP they gain. It also doesn't discourage the players that are bad at it. You may get blown up every time you engage someone, but you gain SP because you are at least out creating content. How about any kind of timer, including Non-Capsuleer Log-Off Timer? I actually kind of like the idea of promoting activity in Eve, but lets not limit it to only 1 type of game play.
Lugh Crow-Slave 2043	Posted - 2016.04.13 11:51:01 - [1407] - Quote Sunset Airguitar wrote: Don't do this! Think of all the people with no self control who will be compelled to log in every day to do something they hate ... I think that is exactly the type they are not only thinking of but directly targeting Citadel worm hole tax
Lugh Crow-Slave 2043	Posted - 2016.04.13 11:52:08 - [1408] - Quote Sean Crees wrote: Cynical-Saint Sunji wrote: I think your goal would be better achieved if there was an SP rate boost any time you have a Limited Engagement Timer. It is a better indicator of someone creating content. And the more content they create, the more SP they gain. It also doesn't discourage the players that are bad at it. You may get blown up every time you engage someone, but you gain SP because you are at least out creating content. How about any kind of timer, including Non-Capsuleer Log-Off Timer? I actually kind of like the idea of promoting activity in Eve, but lets not limit it to only 1 type of game play. Even timers limit it How about we promote gameplay by adding more things to do Citadel worm hole tax
Aydan Talvanen Bros Before Holes The Devils' Rejects 4	Posted - 2016.04.13 11:53:18 - [1409] - Quote Cynical-Saint Sunji wrote: I think your goal would be better achieved if there was an SP rate boost any time you have a Limited Engagement Timer. It is a better indicator of someone creating content. And the more content they create, the more SP they gain. It also doesn't discourage the players that are bad at it. You may get blown up every time you engage someone, but you gain SP because you are at least out creating content. EXACTLY. Rich people can make their training faster with money, there's NOTHING wrong to give plebs a little something. BUT DAILIES, Rise? This is just unacceptable.
Vol Arm'OOO Bagel and Lox 801	Posted - 2016.04.13 12:09:21 - [1410] - Quote I don't get it. Ccp just added a significant sp sink with skill extractors. Given aging vets in this game a sp sink was sorely needed. Why in the world would ccp now seek to inject more sp into the game? It's a terrible idea for the inflationary effect it has on sp alone. That it adds an experience grind to a game that has long prided itself on not having one is just as bad. If this woe begotten idea must be implemented it should be limited to low sp characters as a means of helping newbees catch up. Hopefully that will limit the damage from too much free sp being injected into the game. I don't play, I just fourm warrior.
Jack Growler Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 4	Posted - 2016.04.13 12:12:41 - [1411] - Quote Cynical-Saint Sunji wrote: I think your goal would be better achieved if there was an SP rate boost any time you have a Limited Engagement Timer. It is a better indicator of someone creating content. And the more content they create, the more SP they gain. It also doesn't discourage the players that are bad at it. You may get blown up every time you engage someone, but you gain SP because you are at least out creating content. Terrible idea. People shooting their alts all day. The content is real.
Anize Oramara The Arch Dashing Dashers 758	Posted - 2016.04.13 12:31:56 - [1412] - Quote The salt is real. It's funny though because after having read mos tof the complaints, absolutely none of them hold any water in the current implementation of Eve. Allow me to explain. You have Joe, he has an alt account that he PLEXes. This account has 3 characters, two of them are Cyno Alts or Trading alts or [instert usefull alt here] so Joe is getting worth out of his PLEX. The 3rd character is not in fact used for anything other than gaining SP, extracting the SP and selling the injectors for isk. He more or less manages to fund this account by doing that. This SP also, by the way, 'appears out of thin air' more or less, requiring a plex to generate them. Now you have Bob. Bob runs incursions/missions/null rats/[inster isk making activity here]. He uses that ISK that he grinds by spending time in game to buy Joe's skill injectors. Now explain to me how SP that is being generated out of thin air (Requiring a Plex) and then being traded for isk is different to SP that is generated by killing an NPC ever 22h (requiring a paid account) are different form each other? Even if you switch out the SP reward form the dailies to ISK, how is it any different to buy SP (farmed with an SP alt) with that isk? It's not. See, with SP extractors and injectors you can justify this feature. Those who advocate(d) for, or were indifferent to, Injectors but are now kicking up against daily SP opportunities unfortunately don't have any ground to stand on. It's that slippery slope people were talking about back when SP injectors were first talked about. That said, I'm happy to sit back and see if this will grow eve, kill it, change the playerbase/demographic forever or have no real effect whatsoever. I just don't have any investment in the outcome at all and will happily enjoy the ride. A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.1
Terranid Meester Tactical Assault and Recon Unit 358	Posted - 2016.04.13 12:32:11 - [1413] - Quote CCP Rise wrote: Another small update: Thanks to feedback we see that it would improve the experience quite a lot minimize the amount of characters available for this reward so we are going to limit the reward to the first character completing the daily task on each account. Thanks 'while we make sure there is one single mechanism that brings new skillpoints in to the system GÇô training.' From your companies skill injectors blog. What I want to know is why CCP lied to us? I guess CCP's words are worth null. Is that the case Rise? Getting SP from killing npc's still breaks the premise of the sandbox in that people don't have to knowingly grind to benefit and breaks the immersion of eve.
Tabyll Altol Breaking.Bad Circle-Of-Two 156	Posted - 2016.04.13 12:57:58 - [1414] - Quote CCP Rise wrote: Hi I'm here to give you guys a heads up that sometime early next week a small daily activity reward feature will be hitting Singularity and will hopefully be making its way to TQ sometime just after Citadel. As you guys surely know, having people in game and in space is great and we want to start promoting and rewarding activity a little more directly. The version of the feature we are planning to deploy first will be a simple 10,000 skill point reward that a character will receive the first time they kill an NPC ship every 22 hours (limited one character per account per day, chosen based on which character completes the task first). The skillpoints will go into your unallocated pool to be used however you like. You will find the status of your daily skill boost in the Opportunities info panel and you will also receive notifications to let you know when it becomes available. That's it for now. If this goes well we hope to expand in several ways, but more on that later! Feedback appreciate as always, CCP Rise for Team Size Matters Responding to feedback Wrong date for aprils fool. But seriously a good thing in eve was that you have to wait some time to get in some new ships and everybody skills at the same speed. First there comes the skill injector then this comes. The next thing would be you get SP for killing every NPC or some special NPC`s with a dimishing return. Don-¦t ruin what makes Eve unique. -1
Tabyll Altol Breaking.Bad Circle-Of-Two 156	Posted - 2016.04.13 13:12:43 - [1415] - Quote CCP Rise wrote: Okay, let's see if I can provide some context for our decision to add daily opportunities to eve and maybe answer some of your bigger questions. Why Dailies? So first lets talk a little history. EVE had a daily logon incentive for most of it's existence: the 24 hour skill queue limit. Back in Phoebe, we removed those limitations. Now, at the time, we were of two minds internally. We didn't like the experience around being punished for not logging in to update your queue, but also knew that some of those logins might be leading to meaningful gameplay and we shouldn't lightly let go of them. We leaned to the side of a better experience and removed the limitations, hoping that the logins we were generating were fairly empty, rarely leading to more actual activity in the universe. Well, it turns out we were wrong about that. Now, with before and after data we can see that making it into the client is a huge step towards real activity, even if the reason for logging in in the first place seems artificial. So this leads us to where we are now, attempting to find ways to create more logins that also don't feel like such a punishment as the skill queue limitations did. This may not turn out to be the perfect alternative but that's what we're looking for. Why Skillpoints? There's been a lot of feedback here that this kind of feature would be acceptable if the rewards were more monetary, either LP or ISK or something similar. There's a few reasons that doesn't really work and we feel pulled towards SP. I think the biggest one is that many people simply won't be motivated by LP or ISK, especially in the amounts we would be restricted to giving. SP simply has higher demand across more playstyles and player ages and that just makes it a more powerful incentive. Second big reason that we actually tried designs using item and ISK rewards and it quickly creates a lot of economic imbalances. Any time we are giving something away without much activity cost we are heavily sabotaging someone's gameplay. Whether it's because of devaluing LP, causing major inflation, or crashing item markets, it's all bad for you guys so we would rather avoid it. Why so lazy? Lots of feedback about the feature having such a minimalist implementation. First, let me clear up some confusion by saying that this feature has no relationship with the 'Tribute' system that was described last year at EVE Vegas. That feature has actually gone down a path more focused on goal setting and long term engagement than daily activity and so the daily part was broken off and given to our team separately. With that in mind, we are trying to find the right mix of activity and accessibility. We want you to be able to collect this reward during a lunch break or a 10 minute period where your kids are in timeout but also want to make sure there's some real gameplay associated with it. We think getting to a belt or gate for an NPC is about the right mix and that's why we've landed with this. That said, we've also deliberately tried to keep it simple so that we can deploy fast and adjust based on how it gets used. We are absolutely open to expanding the list of activities in the future and imagined that as one of the most likely first iterations. Small sidenote on activities: many of you mentioned PVP, remember that this is always problematic because the most effective way to PVP for rewards is just kill your own alt, which isn't very fun or interesting. New players Seeing a lot of talk about this feature in the context of new players and I can just say that this is not a new player targeted feature. We hope it's good for new players as well but for the feature to be successful it needs to be relevant to everyone. Wow CCP And finally the traditional MMO comparisons. While I found most of these comments to be the most entertaining, it's pretty absurd to think that any feature which can be found in a traditional MMO appearing in EVE means we are headed down the road to battlegrounds and dragon killing. If you look at Citadel feature list you should not have any concerns about our commitment to the EVE sandbox and the hardcore nature of our game. Hope some of this helps. We are taking your feedback seriously and if we don't make any changes before release we will absolutely be following up shortly after release with changes based on feedback and behavior. And how about still no. If people want SP --> they should buy injectors (and yes this was a bad idea too, but there was not crafted SP i was just transfered which was important for CCP (at this time)). I don-¦t wanna be forced to do some things just to stay on the same skill speed as other pilots. The implants are a aceptabel evil but no more extra sp gain or just make it for all the same same base speed and everybody gets the same 10k /day unlocated. -1
Aydan Talvanen Bros Before Holes The Devils' Rejects 6	Posted - 2016.04.13 13:19:22 - [1416] - Quote Aaaannnd the monstrosity is already on Singularity. What a horrible day to wake up to. http://i.imgur.com/v3tZxkN.png
Indahmawar Fazmarai 5041	Posted - 2016.04.13 13:38:05 - [1417] - Quote Mizhir wrote: Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote: Tippia wrote: (...) Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote: He already explained. The issue is the people who stopped login in daily because of the extended skill queue. Weekly rewards would do nothing to sort the issue. His explanation is nonsensical. The extended skill queue did not stop people from logging in daily, because it never required you to do so to begin with. The extended skill queue meant that people could stuff several weeks or months of skills into the queue, as opposed to maybe 30 days tops. If it had been a daily requirement to update your skill queue, the dip he's talking about should have manifested when the queue was first implemented, not 7 years later. He can claim otherwise until he's blue in the face, but that's just a fact of how the skill queue worked. He's going to have to come up with something far more clever if he want to argue against reality. His explanation is not a reason not to make it a weekly (or even monthly) tally; it's a pisspoor attempt at hiding the intent of the change: forcing people to log in more often than they've done since 2008.(...) Well, I've been discussing a lot the steep decline in PCU. My main argument being (and is) that most people pay CCP for the PvE, PvE is a short career with poor quality and that kills population faster than anything else in the game, thus in the last years people who start playing are outnumbered by the continued pressure of quitting PvErs. That drives PCU down despite all of CCP's increasingly desperate efforts to improve PvP, quality of life and anything but PvE as PvErs want it. In this context, one of the usual counter-arguments is that multiple character training and long skillqueues are to blame for PCU going down. So when CCP comes and tells us that unlimited skillqueues have taken a toll on server population after Phoebe, I am more or less willing to take their word for it. It goes a bit against my main argument but makes sense. We may discuss whether it's bullshit or don't, but there's one deeper layer into it: lower PCU (which is real) is toxic to EVE and CCP. Enough toxic to lead CCP into taking a controversial step to bribe players into becoming/providing content by just loggin in and being exposed to the sandbox. As someone who would profit from this measure (pennies from heaven just for playing my way), I am perfectly OK with it. To me, it's a nice bribe to counter the desperate stupidity of higher NPC taxes in the futile attempts to make Citadels into acceptable trade hubs. How is Dailies gonna fix this? If PVEers are quitting because of burnout from PVE then dailies wouldn't make PVE any more interesting. Instead they will most lkely just log in a do dailies and then log out afterwards until they burn out of that as well which in the end may extend their activity for 1-2 weeks but still wouldn't make them return to the game. I have been in many games where I slowly drifted into the 'just do dailies and then log out' cycle as I was burning out of the game and it honestly leaves a rather negative experiance of the game. Dailies are a fix to "people don't log for skill queue and that's bad". They're a small bribe and probably will only benefit people who would be killing that NPC anyway -true PvErs. The PvE side of dwindling PCU is just kinda hopeless. Supposedly we should see a Devblog on it next month by CCP Affinitty, but based on what she shared at EVE Vegas, CCP's plans for PvE are half a million miles out of outch with reality, probably by lack of actually engaging PvErs and rather listening to the CSM, reddit, the forums, 99% of blogs and anyone who opens his mouth on what do PvErs "want". Not to mention that plans for PvE are for a span of 2 or 3 years. As I said, this daily bribe is like buying a sticker for the coffin of the victim after he spent three days waiting at the ER room. It is appreciated but it's been stated that it's not about PvErs.
Terrorfrodo Renegade Hobbits for Mordor 721	Posted - 2016.04.13 13:53:53 - [1418] - Quote I dont know why everyone is still bashing PvE so much, CCP has tried to make it better and not without success. Doing sites in a Marauder is pretty engaging and comes quite close to being fun if you dont do it all the time. It can be positively thrilling if you sit with 5b worth of marauders in a c5 anomaly and accidentally trigger 2 battleship waves at once. I overloaded both reppers and just barely survived in deep structure, with burning modules. It almost felt like pvp :) .
Aydan Talvanen Bros Before Holes The Devils' Rejects 8	Posted - 2016.04.13 14:06:24 - [1419] - Quote Yay! Daily completed! http://extrazoom.com/image-57157.html?heuln50x50 -¼-¼'
Lavayar Russian SOBR Dream Fleet 261	Posted - 2016.04.13 14:10:54 - [1420] - Quote Sad Day For EvE
Ravcharas Infinite Point Violence of Action. 482	Posted - 2016.04.13 14:11:17 - [1421] - Quote Last time the PCU were at today's level was what, 07-08? They "fixed" that by releasing content that excited players, like t2 ships and FW and then came Apocrypha which gave the entire game a boost. I mean, hell, if you really wanted to juice the numbers, release a mobile app already. We've had smartphones for nearly a decade, the jury is in; the hype is real.
Lan Wang Knights of the posing meat FETID 2697	Posted - 2016.04.13 14:14:55 - [1422] - Quote Ravcharas wrote: Last time the PCU were at today's level was what, 07-08? They "fixed" that by releasing content that excited players, like t2 ships and FW and then came Apocrypha which gave the entire game a boost. I mean, hell, if you really wanted to juice the numbers, release a mobile app already. We've had smartphones for nearly a decade, the jury is in; the hype is real. smartphone app would certainly do all kinds of wonders for login numbers FETID now recruiting pvp pilots & corporations \| lowsec pvp & piracy - Join FETID Loyalist to Angel Cartel & Serpentis
Shalashaska Adam Partial Safety 157	Posted - 2016.04.13 14:15:14 - [1423] - Quote All wasted feedback once again, this is merely an announcement thread. More disappointed than anything really.
Jeremiah Saken The Fall of Leviathan 544	Posted - 2016.04.13 14:24:19 - [1424] - Quote Aydan Talvanen wrote: Yay! Daily completed! http://extrazoom.com/image-57157.html?heuln50x50 -¼-¼' Real "Thrill of the hunt". It should be named "Slaughter of the Lambs". "(...) I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas (...)" "Here in the garden of the arcane delights dark shadows overwhelm us and and we become blind..."
Crumplecorn Eve Cluster Explorations 2046	Posted - 2016.04.13 14:27:52 - [1425] - Quote CCP Rise wrote: Small sidenote on activities: many of you mentioned PVP, remember that this is always problematic because the most effective way to PVP for rewards is just kill your own alt, which isn't very fun or interesting. Logging in just to kill a single NPC is fun and interesting - CCP Witty Image - Stream Not Liking this post hurts my RL feelings and will be considered harassment
Lan Wang Knights of the Posing Meat FETID 2699	Posted - 2016.04.13 14:32:26 - [1426] - Quote Crumplecorn wrote: CCP Rise wrote: Small sidenote on activities: many of you mentioned PVP, remember that this is always problematic because the most effective way to PVP for rewards is just kill your own alt, which isn't very fun or interesting. Logging in just to kill a single NPC is fun and interesting - CCP that make me laugh and i actually pee'd a little FETID now recruiting pvp pilots & corporations \| lowsec pvp & piracy - Join FETID Loyalist to Angel Cartel & Serpentis
neofa008 Insomnia Aphrodisia 0	Posted - 2016.04.13 14:43:15 - [1427] - Quote Srsly, wtf? Stop doing ****
Ravcharas Infinite Point Violence of Action. 482	Posted - 2016.04.13 14:48:17 - [1428] - Quote Lan Wang wrote: smartphone app would certainly do all kinds of wonders for login numbers Sure would if you put them together. What does it matter to me if the market orders got updated through someone's computer or someone's iphone? This module I bought got invented and manufactured by someone who logged in with the app, oh the horror!
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 27391	Posted - 2016.04.13 14:55:16 - [1429] - Quote Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote: Well, I've been discussing a lot the steep decline in PCU. My main argument being (and is) that most people pay CCP for the PvE, PvE is a short career with poor quality and that kills population faster than anything else in the game, thus in the last years people who start playing are outnumbered by the continued pressure of quitting PvErs. That drives PCU down despite all of CCP's increasingly desperate efforts to improve PvP, quality of life and anything but PvE as PvErs want it. In this context, one of the usual counter-arguments is that multiple character training and long skillqueues are to blame for PCU going down. So when CCP comes and tells us that unlimited skillqueues have taken a toll on server population after Phoebe, I am more or less willing to take their word for it. It goes a bit against my main argument but makes sense. It's not the notion that the infiniqueue lowered logins that I'm objecting to GÇö everyone knew that would happen; indeed it was by far the strongest argument against doing it. When it was announced, people explicitly and openly embraced the concept exactly because they could now stuff the queue and not log in for months on end. No, the bullshit I'm objecting to is his attempt at using it as an argument why this new abortion needs to come in the form of a daily, suggesting that skill changes were a form of GÇ£dailyGÇ¥ in the olden days. This, of course, is nonsense and even a cursory glance at the queue itself by a 1-day old player will dispel that notion. He's engaging in some Chris Roberts-level history revisionism when he tries to suggest that the 24h queue made people log in daily, and that it's therefore ok to force people to log in daily to collect their SP bribes. Even before the queue existed, there was no daily requirement GÇö you mashed a bunch of lvl IGÇôIII skills into a single session, then set off a lvl IV or V that would last you until your next login. If we use reality rather than history revisionism as our basis, the 24h queue demonstrates that a weekly or even monthly requirement would be suitable to get the numbers up without disrupting everyone's regular play. And of course, that's just assuming that some kind of rewards grind is implemented at all, but that's where the real folly of his argument rears its head. By making the ignorant skill queue comparison, he accidentally proved that the Daily Opportunity proposal was completely pointless. Apparently, the infniniqueue cause logins to drop dramatically GÇö no surprise there. The solution to that problem is not to drive away even more players by forcing them to grind dull content; the solution is to remove the cause of the drop GÇö remove the infiniqueue. It'll be controversial and they'll be hated for it, but what's the difference from the grief they're getting now? With that kind of move, they would actually be able to make a historic argument: it worked just fine before; it'll work just fine again. Combine it with the clustered play types they figure out a year ago, and they can even make the argument that those who'd quit because they couldn't be offline for months on end are 99% likely to quit anyway, so there's no substantial loss from reinstating the 24h limit.
Tomika Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 35	Posted - 2016.04.13 15:03:50 - [1430] - Quote Aydan Talvanen wrote: Aaaannnd the monstrosity is already on Singularity. What a horrible day to wake up to. http://i.imgur.com/v3tZxkN.png Alright I'll be honest. Seeing that gives me a bad feeling. I've poked a bit of fun at some complainers in the thread (Sorry. It's a character flaw, what can I say) but really... you are right. This kind of sucks. Just like the dailies and garrison gold missions in WoW, the mere existence of this new 'opportunity' will act like a tiny itch that you want to ignore but can't because you'd be dumb not to just reach and scratch it. I mean, I will do those missions because I'd be dumb not to, right? But the fact it's going to put something unwanted on my to-do list bugs me. Hell, I don't even have a to-do list in EVE. But now I will.
Jeremiah Saken The Fall of Leviathan 544	Posted - 2016.04.13 15:06:46 - [1431] - Quote Tippia wrote: By making the ignorant skill queue comparison, he accidentally proved that the Daily Opportunity proposal was completely pointless. Apparently, the infniniqueue cause logins to drop dramatically GÇö no surprise there. The solution to that problem is not to drive away even more players by forcing them to grind dull content; the solution is to remove the cause of the drop GÇö remove the infiniqueue. It'll be controversial and they'll be hated for it, but what's the difference from the grief they're getting now? With that kind of move, they would actually be able to make a historic argument: it worked just fine before; it'll work just fine again. Combine it with the clustered play types they figure out a year ago, and they can even make the argument that those who'd quit because they couldn't be offline for months on end are 99% likely to quit anyway, so there's no substantial loss from reinstating the 24h limit. What does it solve exactly? Being forced to log because of 24 que is better that dailiy? Players didn't log to play, they log to put skills into que. "(...) I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas (...)" "Here in the garden of the arcane delights dark shadows overwhelm us and and we become blind..."
Aydan Talvanen Bros Before Holes The Devils' Rejects 10	Posted - 2016.04.13 15:08:12 - [1432] - Quote Tomika wrote: Aydan Talvanen wrote: Aaaannnd the monstrosity is already on Singularity. What a horrible day to wake up to. http://i.imgur.com/v3tZxkN.png Alright I'll be honest. Seeing that gives me a bad feeling. I've poked a bit of fun at some complainers in the thread (Sorry. It's a character flaw, what can I say) but really... you are right. This kind of sucks. Just like the dailies and garrison gold missions in WoW, the mere existence of this new 'opportunity' will act like a tiny itch that you want to ignore but can't because you'd be dumb not to just reach and scratch it. I mean, I will do those missions because I'd be dumb not to, right? But the fact it's going to put something unwanted on my to-do list bugs me. Hell, I don't even have a to-do list in EVE. But now I will. We have a convert. Praise Bob.
Hra Neuvosto FinFleet Northern Coalition. 387	Posted - 2016.04.13 15:08:26 - [1433] - Quote What's the lore excuse for these btw?
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 27394	Posted - 2016.04.13 15:29:19 - [1434] - Quote Jeremiah Saken wrote: What does it solve exactly? Being forced to log because of 24 que is better that dailiy? Players didn't log to play, they log to put skills into que. It solves the exact problem that they claim they want to solve: that, just as predicted, the inifniqueue made people log in less frequently. The 24h queue does not force you to log in daily GÇö it never did. Hell, having no queue at all didn't force you to do that. The argument that people didn't log in to play applies equally to the opportunity proposal, and thus completely debunks the notion that they're doing this to GÇ£promote activity.GÇ¥ They're doing it to artificially inflate a PR number that they accidentally deflated by changing a wholly unrelated mechanism. The difference is that the 24h queue was something you could fiddle with (while engaging in more relevant activities) during your regular play hours, be it over the weekend or biweekly or whatever, so it did not offer a distraction over more fun stuff, nor was it a demand when you didn't really have time for it. It was something you could incorporate in your regular game schedule rather than something you had to build an artificial game schedule schedule around. It's better than a daily because it's not a daily; it's better than a forced, limited activity, because it's a background maintenance task; it's something you can do at your leisure while you're logged in, not something you specifically have to log in to do.
Lan Wang Knights of the Posing Meat FETID 2701	Posted - 2016.04.13 15:36:06 - [1435] - Quote Hra Neuvosto wrote: What's the lore excuse for these btw? The lost sp from the extractors was gassed into the atmosphere and collected by various hostile npc agents, killing these npc agents grants the ability to harvest the sp into your own bad self FETID now recruiting pvp pilots & corporations \| lowsec pvp & piracy - Join FETID Loyalist to Angel Cartel & Serpentis
Aydan Talvanen Bros Before Holes The Devils' Rejects 10	Posted - 2016.04.13 15:38:24 - [1436] - Quote Why won't CSM talk some sense into the devs? At least they would do something for a change.
Kieron VonDeux 153	Posted - 2016.04.13 15:49:08 - [1437] - Quote Aydan Talvanen wrote: Why won't CSM talk some sense into the devs? At least they would do something for a change. I don't think that is the relationship CCP has with the CSM.
Balta Katei BALTAKATEI Baltakatei Heavy Industries 0	Posted - 2016.04.13 15:49:52 - [1438] - Quote CCP Rise wrote: Small sidenote on activities: many of you mentioned PVP, remember that this is always problematic because the most effective way to PVP for rewards is just kill your own alt, which isn't very fun or interesting. Here is my suggestion for giving SP rewards to PvP activities: Summary Give an SP reward if one player (Alice) destroys another player's (Bob) ship. The amount of SP rewarded is inversely proportional to the number of "relationship points" (RP) Alice has with Bob. RP is used as a tracking tool to determine how often players interact with each other. RP cannot be modified by the player. Q&A with myself to explain Q: What is the problem? A: In order to keep players from exploiting the "kill your own alt for PvP rewards" issue, it is necessary to track how players relate to one another. Q: What is your solution? A: I propose that each player have a RP list in their character profile that tracks how often the player interacts with other players. The goal of RP will be to determine how "connected" a player is with another player. Q: How would RP be tracked? A: Each player would have a list of character names and associated RP count in a tab in their Character Sheet. Q: What can change a player's RP? A: Certain events such as destroying on-another's ship, chatting with one another, being in the same corporation at downtime, activating remote modules with one another, sending mail to one another... all would increment the RP to varying extents. Q: Can you give me an example of how a RP would change in a fight? A: I'll keep it simple and say only killmails generate RP. Let's say Alice destroys Bob's ship. Alice is in a fleet with Charlie. Alice is tackle. Charlie is in a brawler fit. Bob has never interacted with Alice before but Bob and Charlie have fought and killed eachother many times before. When Bob's ship blows up, a killmail is generated. Immediately upon generation of the killmail, Bob's name appears in Alice's RP list for the first time and 1 RP is incremented to Bob's entry. Since Bob and Charlie have killed eachother many times in the past, Charlie is already in Bob's RP list so 1 RP is incremented to Charlie's entry. Similarly, Charlie's RP list already has Bob's name present with 7 RP; this RP increments to 8. Q: How would SP be awarded to everyone in that fight if daily PvP SP rewards were a thing? A: Since Alice has never before interacted with Charlie, Alice only has 1 RP associated with Charlie in her list. Since she was included in the killmail of Bob's ship, let's say her SP reward is 10,000 SP. However, since Bob and Charlie already have 7 RP with eachother before the battle from previous interactions, the SP reward that Charlie receives for being on the killmail is much lower, say 78 SP (ex. formula: SP_reward = 10000*(0.5)^(RP) ). This example formula halves the amount of SP rewarded when RP increases by 1. If Alice destroyed Bob's ship again the next day for the daily PvP SP reward, she would only receive 5000 SP (half of what she got the day before). If Charlie were fleeting with Alice again for this second kill, he would only receive 39 SP. Q: How would this solve the "kill your own alt" problem of PvP rewards? A: In my simple example, the daily SP reward goes down by half when a player tries to kill the same character twice. In order to maximize SP, players would be forced to kill many more unique characters instead of just killing the same alt over and over. Q: What if a corporation exploited your system by undocking a large number of alts that were meant to be killed to harvest SP? A: That would be a difficult undertaking of a corporation since CCP only allows one character from one account to be logged in at any one time. If I had to propose a mitigating solution, I would suggest that CCP create an "interrelatedness" function using "degrees of separation" as an input. Basically, when a killmail is generated, you establish a small amount of RP with anyone who has also interacted (killed or been killed by) with the victim. Imagine a SP farming scenario with lots of alts being killed over and over by a large group of players until their RP is maxed out and the alt biomassed. If RP is incremented not only for those involved in the killmail, but those who interacted with those in the killmail, and those who interacted with those who interacted with those in the killmail, then the rate of RP increase of the SP farming alts would increase much faster if it were the same group of characters killing the alts. However, I imagine all the added processing power needed to do all these RP calculations would make using this "interrelatedness" function unfeasible.
Jeremiah Saken The Fall of Leviathan 545	Posted - 2016.04.13 15:51:19 - [1439] - Quote Tippia wrote: It's better than a daily because it's not a daily; it's better than a forced, limited activity, because it's a background maintenance task; it's something you can do at your leisure while you're logged in, not something you specifically have to log in to do. When I opposed against SP trading backers said: "you don't have to buy SP. It's optional". Same will be with this. Little you can do it here. I'm opposing dailies not because I will feel forced to do them. I'm opposing them because I've done them before in other games and it straight way to burn out for other players. All we need is achievements in EvE. Nail to the coffin. CCP is paranoid, everybody wants to convince me that SP don't matter, only player experience. Yet they introducing SP trading and SP grinding via PvE...Absurd beyond imagination. "(...) I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas (...)" "Here in the garden of the arcane delights dark shadows overwhelm us and and we become blind..."
Lan Wang Knights of the Posing Meat FETID 2701	Posted - 2016.04.13 15:55:12 - [1440] - Quote Jeremiah Saken wrote: Tippia wrote: It's better than a daily because it's not a daily; it's better than a forced, limited activity, because it's a background maintenance task; it's something you can do at your leisure while you're logged in, not something you specifically have to log in to do. When I opposed against SP trading backers said: "you don't have to buy SP. It's optional". Same will be with this. Little you can do it here. I'm opposing dailies not because I will feel forced to do them. I'm opposing them because I've done them before in other games and it straight way to burn out for other players. All we need is achievements in EvE. Nail to the coffin. CCP is paranoid, everybody wants to convince me that SP don't matter, only player experience. Yet they introducing SP trading and SP grinding via PvE...Absurd beyond imagination. My argument with this was sp is available to everyone, you dont have to change your style of gameplay to benefit from injectors, dailies require you to change your activity in order to get the reward, people who pvp, market trade, industry, haulers all get pretty much shafted because they dont shoot npc's. FETID now recruiting pvp pilots & corporations \| lowsec pvp & piracy - Join FETID Loyalist to Angel Cartel & Serpentis
Naso Aya Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde 77	Posted - 2016.04.13 16:03:01 - [1441] - Quote I genuinely feel this feature is a lose-lose for some players. Not all, or even most, just those people who focus on the industry side of things, or the exploration side of things, or l33t PvPers, and even miners. Apparently the system is going to be expanded, but, let's be honest, it could be expanded in 3 months or 3 years. We also don't know what the criteria of success is. As players, we're not supposed to know those kind of things, but as a result, you can't expect us to take it at face value that the system will be expanded and improved upon. We can only judge something based off of what we've seen, and while there has been some small improvement, by and large this still appears a dismal attempt to enforce a certain playstyle. Consider- By singling out ratting, even if anyone can do it- or rather, especially because anyone can do it, you're giving a pat on the head to ratters while everyone who specifically avoids that style of play. CCP Rise, you even suggested that someone would shoot their own alt- but, that seems comparable work to shooting a single rat, in all honesty. That's pretty dismissive of people just asking to be able to play EVE in their own way. Meanwhile, there's a large question mark over whether you have to be involved in the kill (like concord bounties) or actually deliver the killing blow. If someone on SiSi could clarify the mechanics there, it'd go a long ways towards figuring out how to approach this mechanic. That said, there's still problems with either system. No matter what system you implement, players will break it- whether trolling and harassing players (ostensibly what you wanted, correct?) or by taking advantage of fleet mechanics to ensure the bare minimum of work (well at least they undocked, right?). Hi-Sec, as much as it is carebear land, is particularly prone to harassment since there isn't an easy way to retaliate against people taking all the rats. Lowsec and Nullsec at least will have "encouraged combat", but that's still not enough. 300,000 skillpoints. That's the difference between someone logging in every day for a year, and logging in every twenty-two hours for a year. And there will be people who do it, or at least try to. Making the cooldowns reset for everyone either at server maintenance or some other predetermined time will make it so people can actually log on during their lunch break, if they have a hectic afternoon ahead. You know, the thing you said in one of your posts? If I habitually play EVE after work, and decide to try and log on during my lunch break, I cannot suddenly get my skill points. I'll ship spin for a few minutes, then leave, which seems to be the exact thing you're trying to prevent. These, to me, are the most important issues. While the reward can be adjusted and balanced, replaced with LP or SP or whatever, the fact that 1) the system is limited to ratting from the start, 2) on an inflexible, 22 hour cooldown, implies a certain heavy-handedness in CCP's ideology. They want us to rat, and they want us to log on every 22 hours, so this is the way they'll enforce it. Sure, CCP says they'll release more details on the system, but how do we know? All we have to go off is what they've told us. P.S. Kind of annoying to brush off the people comparing WoW to EVE. Even if you don't think WoW and EVE are anything alike, they are right that WoW uses dailies to reinforce patterns and get people to log on or miss out on the rewards- either reputation, money, or tokens of some kind. The difference comes from a matter of scale rather than anything else. I logged onto WoW to do my dailies, I log onto EVE to have fun.
Kieron VonDeux 153	Posted - 2016.04.13 16:06:15 - [1442] - Quote The best way for CCP to increase activity is by removing or limiting all the features that promote reducing activity such as: Unlimited Skill Queue. API pushes with in-game info such as notifications, Eve Mail, and etc. and many more. And give us more meaningful reasons to log in such as: More ways to annoy other players when they are not online through Sov or Structure mechanics. Additional meaningful NPC content. Simply giving SP boosts for doing same old things only shows how much imagination and ingenuity your game design is currently lacking. Maybe its time to replace some burnt out Devs.
Jeremiah Saken The Fall of Leviathan 546	Posted - 2016.04.13 16:09:04 - [1443] - Quote Lan Wang wrote: My argument with this was sp is available to everyone, you dont have to change your style of gameplay to benefit from injectors, dailies require you to change your activity in order to get the reward, people who pvp, market trade, industry, haulers all get pretty much shafted because they dont shoot npc's. You don't need SP, only experience. I trained tengu 2,5 year ago. Do you think my gameplay was affected since then? It's same tengu with better skills. I'm flying it same as first time I undocked it. My skills are better but how them affect my gameplay? Very little. "I need to shoot that rat because it's inevitable add to my SP pool". Wrong you don't. Cluster will still be there. Heaven won't fall. Marvel will still be better than DC. "(...) I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas (...)" "Here in the garden of the arcane delights dark shadows overwhelm us and and we become blind..."
Khan Wrenth Ore Oppression Prevention and Salvation 559	Posted - 2016.04.13 16:22:50 - [1444] - Quote Lan Wang wrote: My argument with this was sp is available to everyone, you dont have to change your style of gameplay to benefit from injectors, dailies require you to change your activity in order to get the reward, people who pvp, market trade, industry, haulers all get pretty much shafted because they dont shoot npc's. I hate sounding like a broken record...but... To be fair... Training the skills to kill a random NPC rat is absolutely minimal. You can do it, with a bit of difficulty, in a civilian-fitted noobship. That's probably why they chose precisely this, it requires absolutely no training whatsoever to achieve. All it requires is docking in a station without a ship to get a noobship with a civilian gattling, and then undock and head to a belt. Let's discuss overhauling the way we get intel in EvE.
Lugh Crow-Slave 2047	Posted - 2016.04.13 16:33:16 - [1445] - Quote Khan Wrenth wrote: Lan Wang wrote: My argument with this was sp is available to everyone, you dont have to change your style of gameplay to benefit from injectors, dailies require you to change your activity in order to get the reward, people who pvp, market trade, industry, haulers all get pretty much shafted because they dont shoot npc's. I hate sounding like a broken record...but... To be fair... Training the skills to kill a random NPC rat is absolutely minimal. You can do it, with a bit of difficulty, in a civilian-fitted noobship. That's probably why they chose precisely this, it requires absolutely no training whatsoever to achieve. All it requires is docking in a station without a ship to get a noobship with a civilian gattling, and then undock and head to a belt. but i still have to do something i dont want to and its the slippery slope we are afraid of. already ccp said they want to texpand this to things like the market mining and relic hunting so yeah this one may not be too bad but its just the start. this is not a sandbox Citadel worm hole tax
Khan Wrenth Ore Oppression Prevention and Salvation 559	Posted - 2016.04.13 16:46:26 - [1446] - Quote Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: but i still have to do something i dont want to and its the slippery slope we are afraid of. already ccp said they want to texpand this to things like the market mining and relic hunting so yeah this one may not be too bad but its just the start. this is not a sandbox Oh I fully agree! I'm just saying, there's a lot of people saying "How's my trader alt supposed to do this?!" I'm just pointing out that literally any character can take a noobship out and take care of business. It's still a bad idea, built on a faulty premise, but it can be done by anyone. Let's discuss overhauling the way we get intel in EvE.
Maximus Aerelius PROPHET OF ENIGMA 1337	Posted - 2016.04.13 17:05:50 - [1447] - Quote A few of my thoughts: So people will log in, go kill a rat or whatever and then dock. In Hi-Sec not a problem, we'll just go about our thing doing whatever we like to do for our playstyle and kicks. Low-Sec, they'll probably have a little party and entertain some Exotic Dancers. Will have to ask Goons about this one though Null-Sec now let's see the impact: So null-sec people will go kill their 1 x rat and get their SP. Instead of logging they stay logged in, docked or AFK CloakedGäó cos why not, I'm logged in. Off to work I go. Now you'll get more forum activity as the "NERF AFK Cloakers" come with their pitch forks. On a side note of that: "Average Pilots in Space" in the Map is warped as it's not accurate Jumps per hour is warped as it's not accurate effectively making that intel dead NPC kills stats go up but not really reflecting true Missioners to those just going to pickup their 10k SP from the rat. DOTLAN ratting stats go out the window as a consequence. And all because CCP removed the 24 hour skill queue and brought in the InfiniQueue (IQ). CCP Rise has already stated that the PCU (not sure why these is so much focus on this) dropped once IQ hit and now they want to get it back up. So instead of rolling back IQ they'll band-aid it with this as Tippia said on P72 I think it was. Stop making EVE into a Themepark. You want EVE to be hard then HTFU and quit with these gimmicks. EVE is burning with war, none of which CCP had anything to do with and yet more people are returning, logging in and getting involved. Why? Because they're motivated to for something more than Theme-EVE, because they have goals, something they want to achieve or people they want to fly with, against, make history, whatever. If you're going to go down this route (which from past experience is beyond a doubt) then don't give SP. Make it like Project Discovery and have a separate LP Pool for which you can get cool cosmetic stuff. Even make it CONCORD LP so you can convert to LP of your choice but at a loss say to the tune of SOE ration 1:0.4? So many other avenues to take that wouldn't p* so much of the community off. You know, the one that's currently bringing in more players and subscriptions cos we're making things go boom. Well not me directly but butterfly effect yeah. Not an arm-chair developer but I'm passionate about this game. [b]Fast Character Switching "XP Stylee" Undocking - More Routes Out of Station[/b] Here's my tear jar > \|_\| < Fill 'er up!**
Lugh Crow-Slave 2058	Posted - 2016.04.13 17:21:23 - [1448] - Quote If this does need to happen male or aurum at least then you still feel like you should loud in to get it but if you don't you just feel like you're missing out rather than losing out Citadel worm hole tax
Erihn Sabrovich 9	Posted - 2016.04.13 17:25:19 - [1449] - Quote I think that there are some serious problems in EVE which ends up as turn off for new players (I'm not speaking of the totally newbie which just joined but about the 6 month-1 year (or 2) old player) The first one is the SP gap... Even if "older players" keep saying that SP don't matter... it's quite frustrating for new players... It can be felt as "why are we punished because we didn't discover this game earlier". Nearly all MMO allow new player to catch-up... except EVE... This may seem OK for people who are 7-8 years old or more (in game) but it's quite a turn off to think that no matter what you do, you'll always stay behind. The second one is the "powerblock" system... In every single competitive MMO (Web based like Travian/Planetarion/..., online like EVE, ... the powerblock simply stop most chances for new players to get a real impact... Try to think about this : how can a new alliance, not linked to any powerblock, may hope to compete with blocks like Goons and other ? You may say that you can simply ignore the blocks... Except that they grasps scarces ressources like Moons, take control of interresting WH space and so on... Next step may be with market control through citadels... There are also some less known things like the T2 BPO which give insane market advantages to those who get them as they don't have to worry about research and reflect the costs on the T2 items prices... You may look the situation in any angle, to counter the player leak, these points have to be taken care off... It may look like no-go for some of you, but injectors and dailies help in that way... Yes, it'll change the SP=age rule... it ** off the older players who feel like they are "ripped"... like their SP superiority is being stripped from them... But keep in mind that removing that SP insanity IS NEEDED. CCP should take care of the T2 BPO... they may convert them to BPC with a limited number of runs + the related T1 BPO... or they may simply remove them, it's not as if they haven't been rentabilized since they were given. CCP should find way to shatter powerblocks... because these blocks do no good to the game... They pretend to "create content" but all what they do is doing some fights, making money, scaring new players and sitting on their strength... they don't create missions, new kind of ships/modules, new kind of exploration sites, ... They usually are not new players friendly (too many risks of them being spies)... But well, this phenomenon is not exclusive to EVE... it's common accross games... CCP should take care of the new players, create more PvE missions, create more opportunities, ... with rewards that really do help them... Some mission arcs can be created for nearly all classes... a little like the tutorial missions but longer (15-20 missions for an arc) and real rewards... CCP should really make mission rewards more valuable... Loot+Salvage (+bounties) are usually several times the mission reward in ISK which is quite pathetic... Giving away small amount of AUR (1-2 AUR for example) or SP could help. You're all whining about that choice of CCP... don't forget one thing : IT'S THEIR GAME, you're only guests... So, please, be more polite to yourt hosts... If you go to some friend's home and don't like the paintings on the wall, you keep quiet about it... It's the same here... For the 8-10 year old players, you won't die by not getting 7M SP a year by not doing the dailies while you already have about 200M SP which is 28 times more !!! If the dailies ** you off, you are NOT REQUIRED to do them... After all, you're the first to say that SP don't matter... and there are probably many of you who don't know what train next anyway...
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 2745	Posted - 2016.04.13 17:27:26 - [1450] - Quote Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: If this does need to happen male or aurum at least then you still feel like you should loud in to get it but if you don't you just feel like you're missing out rather than losing out You expect them to kill a revenue stream like aurum when instead they can give you something that you might burn aurum on to unload it on another player? Get real man...
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 2745	Posted - 2016.04.13 17:30:36 - [1451] - Quote Erihn Sabrovich wrote: I think that there are some serious problems in EVE which ends up as turn off for new players (I'm not speaking of the totally newbie which just joined but about the 6 month-1 year (or 2) old player) The first one is the SP gap... Even if "older players" keep saying that SP don't matter... it's quite frustrating for new players... It can be felt as "why are we punished because we didn't discover this game earlier". The SP gap in this game is a few month for most hulls. Anything higher than that require your target to be command ship, marauder (not even sure), black ops and capital ships. That might account for about 15% of the available hull type in the game. Trainign support skills, 1 weapon system, 1 tanking system, raw buffer and navigation does not take years and every hull after the first one get a huge reduction ebcause your support are done or partially done.
PotatoOverdose Royal Black Watch Highlanders White Legion. 2761	Posted - 2016.04.13 17:42:05 - [1452] - Quote Rise: You do know that no one actually likes doing dailies in those other mmo's, right? Right?
Lugh Crow-Slave 2058	Posted - 2016.04.13 17:46:16 - [1453] - Quote PotatoOverdose wrote: Rise: You do know that no one actually likes doing dailies in those other mmo's, right? Right? Lol everyone who puts these in games knows that but "fun" is not the goal Citadel worm hole tax
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 2747	Posted - 2016.04.13 17:50:00 - [1454] - Quote PotatoOverdose wrote: Rise: You do know that no one actually likes doing dailies in those other mmo's, right? Right? You should check around before making assumptions like that. A request to remove the daily cap in WoW was commonly made because player felt they should be allowed to do as many as they wished instead of being capped at X per day. Disliking something, even if it's at the level of hating it with a passion does not mean everybody think like you.
Axhind Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation 147	Posted - 2016.04.13 17:51:52 - [1455] - Quote PotatoOverdose wrote: Rise: You do know that no one actually likes doing dailies in those other mmo's, right? Right? No no. EVE player are stupid and don't know what they actually want. What we all want is 5v5 in frigates. That's the real deal and what market has been screaming for as there are absolutely no PvP games that feature small teams on each side. PS: On an off chance someone missed the sarcasm, there are plenty of team PvP games and most of them happen to be free to play and grind free so not sure exactly where CCPs vision is. Maybe; "We give you small team PvP game with insane amounts of grind because what sane person doesn't love grind? And best of all, you get to pay us 15Gé¼ per month and account to play it!"
Axhind Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation 147	Posted - 2016.04.13 17:53:41 - [1456] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: PotatoOverdose wrote: Rise: You do know that no one actually likes doing dailies in those other mmo's, right? Right? You should check around before making assumptions like that. A request to remove the daily cap in WoW was commonly made because player felt they should be allowed to do as many as they wished instead of being capped at X per day. Disliking something, even if it's at the level of hating it with a passion does not mean everybody think like you. So your argument is to emulate a dying game because it's going so well for it? That's AMOK level bad :p
PotatoOverdose Royal Black Watch Highlanders White Legion. 2762	Posted - 2016.04.13 17:54:07 - [1457] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: PotatoOverdose wrote: Rise: You do know that no one actually likes doing dailies in those other mmo's, right? Right? You should check around before making assumptions like that. A request to remove the daily cap in WoW was commonly made because player felt they should be allowed to do as many as they wished instead of being capped at X per day. Disliking something, even if it's at the level of hating it with a passion does not mean everybody think like you. Well. I suppose you are correct, it isn't everyone. But it is a lot of folks. Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Lol everyone who puts these in games knows that but "fun" is not the goal Right. At the end of the day this is a game. Not a job where people need an incentive to punch in every day. Treating it as the latter is bad. If fun for their customers isn't the goal, they should rethink their plan.
Eveline Vos POS Party Ember Sands 86	Posted - 2016.04.13 17:57:31 - [1458] - Quote Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Khan Wrenth wrote: Lan Wang wrote: My argument with this was sp is available to everyone, you dont have to change your style of gameplay to benefit from injectors, dailies require you to change your activity in order to get the reward, people who pvp, market trade, industry, haulers all get pretty much shafted because they dont shoot npc's. I hate sounding like a broken record...but... To be fair... Training the skills to kill a random NPC rat is absolutely minimal. You can do it, with a bit of difficulty, in a civilian-fitted noobship. That's probably why they chose precisely this, it requires absolutely no training whatsoever to achieve. All it requires is docking in a station without a ship to get a noobship with a civilian gattling, and then undock and head to a belt. but i still have to do something i dont want to and its the slippery slope we are afraid of. already ccp said they want to texpand this to things like the market mining and relic hunting so yeah this one may not be too bad but its just the start. this is not a sandbox All aboard the train to "Eve Thempark MMO", chooo chooo.
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 2748	Posted - 2016.04.13 18:00:14 - [1459] - Quote Axhind wrote: Frostys Virpio wrote: PotatoOverdose wrote: Rise: You do know that no one actually likes doing dailies in those other mmo's, right? Right? You should check around before making assumptions like that. A request to remove the daily cap in WoW was commonly made because player felt they should be allowed to do as many as they wished instead of being capped at X per day. Disliking something, even if it's at the level of hating it with a passion does not mean everybody think like you. So your argument is to emulate a dying game because it's going so well for it? That's AMOK level bad :p His argument is that people in other MMO don't like dailies. I provided a counter example from a MMO even bigger than the one he plays which mean it's representative of the playerbase he was referencing as "player of other MMOs".
Eveline Vos POS Party Ember Sands 86	Posted - 2016.04.13 18:03:02 - [1460] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: Erihn Sabrovich wrote: I think that there are some serious problems in EVE which ends up as turn off for new players (I'm not speaking of the totally newbie which just joined but about the 6 month-1 year (or 2) old player) The first one is the SP gap... Even if "older players" keep saying that SP don't matter... it's quite frustrating for new players... It can be felt as "why are we punished because we didn't discover this game earlier". The SP gap in this game is a few month for most hulls. Anything higher than that require your target to be command ship, marauder (not even sure), black ops and capital ships. That might account for about 15% of the available hull type in the game. Trainign support skills, 1 weapon system, 1 tanking system, raw buffer and navigation does not take years and every hull after the first one get a huge reduction ebcause your support are done or partially done. But how many people actually only fly one exact ship forever? Most corps/groups of people will ask people to fly different ships for different reasons. Different game play activities require different skills. Also, the SP requirement of support skills is pretty ******* massive, even though you have to do it once, it is still a huge SP sink (engineering, navigation, targeting, not even counting armor and shield tanks).
Eveline Vos POS Party Ember Sands 86	Posted - 2016.04.13 18:04:35 - [1461] - Quote Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: PotatoOverdose wrote: Rise: You do know that no one actually likes doing dailies in those other mmo's, right? Right? Lol everyone who puts these in games knows that but "fun" is not the goal Increased PCU! And the slight chance that when you log in to do your dailies, you actually end up doing something fun, rather than "sorry guys, gotta do my dailies first". At least the cancer that was skill queue only took 5 seconds to do, not even the "5 minutes" that the dailies will require. And you could always just throw in a long skill and not log in for days at a time.
Eveline Vos POS Party Ember Sands 88	Posted - 2016.04.13 18:06:49 - [1462] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: PotatoOverdose wrote: Rise: You do know that no one actually likes doing dailies in those other mmo's, right? Right? You should check around before making assumptions like that. A request to remove the daily cap in WoW was commonly made because player felt they should be allowed to do as many as they wished instead of being capped at X per day. Disliking something, even if it's at the level of hating it with a passion does not mean everybody think like you. No, the daily cap was asked to be removed because Blizzard wasn't going to remove dailies, and you literally needed to do more dailies in one day that the daily cap allowed due to the OUTRAGEOUS quantity of dailies added in Mists of Pandaria. PS- Nobody liked spending 2-4 hours a day/per character to get the "way too good to ignore" rewards so that they could keep up with raid progression.
wurstsalat Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde 20	Posted - 2016.04.13 18:10:21 - [1463] - Quote Erihn Sabrovich wrote: I think that there are some serious problems in EVE which ends up as turn off for new players (I'm not speaking of the totally newbie which just joined but about the 6 month-1 year (or 2) old player) The first one is the SP gap... Even if "older players" keep saying that SP don't matter... it's quite frustrating for new players... It can be felt as "why are we punished because we didn't discover this game earlier". Nearly all MMO allow new player to catch-up... except EVE... This may seem OK for people who are 7-8 years old or more (in game) but it's quite a turn off to think that no matter what you do, you'll always stay behind. The second one is the "powerblock" system... In every single competitive MMO (Web based like Travian/Planetarion/..., online like EVE, ... the powerblock simply stop most chances for new players to get a real impact... Try to think about this : how can a new alliance, not linked to any powerblock, may hope to compete with blocks like Goons and other ? You may say that you can simply ignore the blocks... Except that they grasps scarces ressources like Moons, take control of interresting WH space and so on... Next step may be with market control through citadels... There are also some less known things like the T2 BPO which give insane market advantages to those who get them as they don't have to worry about research and reflect the costs on the T2 items prices... You may look the situation in any angle, to counter the player leak, these points have to be taken care off... It may look like no-go for some of you, but injectors and dailies help in that way... Yes, it'll change the SP=age rule... it ** off the older players who feel like they are "ripped"... like their SP superiority is being stripped from them... But keep in mind that removing that SP insanity IS NEEDED. CCP should take care of the T2 BPO... they may convert them to BPC with a limited number of runs + the related T1 BPO... or they may simply remove them, it's not as if they haven't been rentabilized since they were given. CCP should find way to shatter powerblocks... because these blocks do no good to the game... They pretend to "create content" but all what they do is doing some fights, making money, scaring new players and sitting on their strength... they don't create missions, new kind of ships/modules, new kind of exploration sites, ... They usually are not new players friendly (too many risks of them being spies)... But well, this phenomenon is not exclusive to EVE... it's common accross games... CCP should take care of the new players, create more PvE missions, create more opportunities, ... with rewards that really do help them... Some mission arcs can be created for nearly all classes... a little like the tutorial missions but longer (15-20 missions for an arc) and real rewards... CCP should really make mission rewards more valuable... Loot+Salvage (+bounties) are usually several times the mission reward in ISK which is quite pathetic... Giving away small amount of AUR (1-2 AUR for example) or SP could help. You're all whining about that choice of CCP... don't forget one thing : IT'S THEIR GAME, you're only guests... So, please, be more polite to yourt hosts... If you go to some friend's home and don't like the paintings on the wall, you keep quiet about it... It's the same here... For the 8-10 year old players, you won't die by not getting 7M SP a year by not doing the dailies while you already have about 200M SP which is 28 times more !!! If the dailies ** you off, you are NOT REQUIRED to do them... After all, you're the first to say that SP don't matter... and there are probably many of you who don't know what train next anyway... You were proven wrong by many alliances, just to take the biggest example, BRAVE. Literally a 2 week old character or whatever who recruited all the newbies and said "Let's go" and they proceeded to play with the big guys. Now they are part of the war against the biggest former coalition. Don't tell people that newbeans can't make a difference, because that's simply lying, 200 people in thrashers which take like 1 week to train at most can do a lot of damage, and if you can maintain a standing fleet of 200 thrashers you can own sov easily and generate a lot of content for everyone. None of what you say makes sense. Stop spouting bullshit. It's clear you don't know anything about this game.
Shallanna Yassavi Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 131	Posted - 2016.04.13 18:13:48 - [1464] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: PotatoOverdose wrote: Rise: You do know that no one actually likes doing dailies in those other mmo's, right? Right? You should check around before making assumptions like that. A request to remove the daily cap in WoW was commonly made because player felt they should be allowed to do as many as they wished instead of being capped at X per day. Disliking something, even if it's at the level of hating it with a passion does not mean everybody think like you. That makes them, by definition, not daily any more. A signature :o
Archange Rangee Republic University Minmatar Republic 0	Posted - 2016.04.13 18:31:15 - [1465] - Quote PotatoOverdose wrote: Rise: You do know that no one actually likes doing dailies in those other mmo's, right? Right? No one actually likes playing MMOs, but that's how all the interesting new games come out now so we don't have much choice. Coming from one of those players you all hate who logs in 3-5 times per year to update his skill queue. If I don't have anything worth training I'll hop around enough to pick up a few new books. If I've really got a bunch of time with nothing to do I might go mine a few rocks in noobspace. I have considered buying Tiny Miner so I'd have enough ISK to buy some ships and try some other stuff, but that seems like a lot of hassle. So there you have it. If you really want to make people log in and play you'll have to get rid of offline training. Yes, I said it. Deal with it.
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 2748	Posted - 2016.04.13 18:31:20 - [1466] - Quote PotatoOverdose wrote: Right. At the end of the day this is a game. Not a job where people need an incentive to punch in every day. Treating it as the latter is bad. If fun for their customers isn't the goal, they should rethink their plan. You are surely the type of player who think EA is doing it all wrong while they are swimming in pools of money. If the real goal was fun, nobody would be making a dime in the gaming industry as they would burn all the money into MOAR FUN!!!! You keep the fun at an ok level and coast on it. This new feature does not add fun. Nothing about it is fun at all. What it adds is log-ins. Log-ins seems irrelevant but they are not. Rise said it in this very thread. Log-ins for non-direct gameplay reason generate un-intended gameplay event. You used to log for your skill queu every few days because you had less than 24 hours queued at that point and while there, you saw someone online to do something with or just did something because well, you are already in game so why not. Technically, they could just revert the skillqueue change and get back those log-ins but the feature is really well liked. People are happy to be able to setup their plan and just forget about it so removing this is a hard sell for CCP. From that point on, you have to give players a reason to log in that is often enough to matter (if it's once a month, it's not worth the effort to develop) and relatively easy so chances are you will still have some "game will" to do something after it in game. If they make the task something meaningful that lakes some time, they have a higher risk of player doing it and quitting. 1st daily wins like in WoT are an example of that. A lot fo people would do their 1st win and stop playing because getting that first win could easily take over 15 mins. Adding to a skillqueue for example just took a few seconds. The activity to get you online also has to be realtively easy in game term to make sure everyone can be the "log-in that will make stuff happen". If you ask people to scan a WH, you lost a good chunk of player because some can't scan anyway while shooting a rat is possible for at least 99% of the characters in game. (You technically might have a market alt with extracted weapon skill which would be unable to kill a frig rat but those are not likely to be numerous) The reward need to be attractive. If you give nothing, the log-ins won't happen. Nobody will long-in just to log in. You can try many things but in EVE, there is one ultimate carrot. The carrot that makes people orange with envy. The one that people are the most likely to do what you ask of them for it. That carrot also has a few bonus attached to it. You are monetizing it in a way that even people with a metric ass ton of it will have a use for it while most other resources might not. This is why SP was chosen and not anything like LP which some people are too damn rich to care about, ISK for the same reason, special LP because people might not want to spacebarbie their character and aurum because this mean killing their own income. SP is valuable to everyone and does not destroy CCPs revenue like aurum would. Now the first problem come but funnily enough, it's not a CCP problem but a playerbase problem. You see, the carrot that trumps them all really DOES trump them all at an insane level. Players are really going to go out of their way to get it. That carrot is way too tasty. It's a sugar coated candy stuffed with caramel served in a bowl of melted chocolate and the players are sugar deprived kids. We technically can all go down in our own way eating or apple ignoring the treat we can only obtain by juggling chainsaw while jumping through fire hoops over a piranha pond in a blizzard but a lot of people just can't skip it. Hell they are willing to arrange of set of chainsaw with automatic gas refilling to make sure they get it the most often possible. This si technically all on them even if they will accuse CCP of making them do it. CCP never said "Thou shall juggle chainsaw while jumping fire hoops over a piranha pond in a blizzard". All they are doing it saying "Hey guys, we're leaving to you everything you used to have but if you ever feel like doing and extra thing, we'll give you something for it". This is what CCP is announcing right now. The choice will stay in each player's hand just like all the choice we don in game. The requirement for the reward is something more than likely just so we can't just crash the client as soon as it load so we can do it faster while still begin extremely short, easy and not really "gameable" like PvP kills would be.
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 2748	Posted - 2016.04.13 18:34:57 - [1467] - Quote Shallanna Yassavi wrote: Frostys Virpio wrote: PotatoOverdose wrote: Rise: You do know that no one actually likes doing dailies in those other mmo's, right? Right? You should check around before making assumptions like that. A request to remove the daily cap in WoW was commonly made because player felt they should be allowed to do as many as they wished instead of being capped at X per day. Disliking something, even if it's at the level of hating it with a passion does not mean everybody think like you. That makes them, by definition, not daily any more. They were daily because each quest could only be ran one time per daily reset. You had a shitload of them available but the game would stop giving you anything after you did 25 IIRC. They were still task you could do every day but you had the choose the set you wanted to do. You had something like 50 options of which you could do 25. People totally wanted to be able to do all 50 and even more by returning to old "irrelevant" content. The argument here is "Why are you forcing me to do X?" (you are not forced but that still the argument pushed) On the other side, it was "Why won't you let me do more of those damn task each day?"
Eveline Vos POS Party Ember Sands 90	Posted - 2016.04.13 18:35:57 - [1468] - Quote Shallanna Yassavi wrote: Frostys Virpio wrote: PotatoOverdose wrote: Rise: You do know that no one actually likes doing dailies in those other mmo's, right? Right? You should check around before making assumptions like that. A request to remove the daily cap in WoW was commonly made because player felt they should be allowed to do as many as they wished instead of being capped at X per day. Disliking something, even if it's at the level of hating it with a passion does not mean everybody think like you. That makes them, by definition, not daily any more. You could only do each quest/batch of quests once per day, but there were so many factions that had dailies that a character cap of 25 "Daily Quests" per day wasn't enough to do them all, and all of them had reputation/faction rewards that were too good to pass up. It was awful.
Eveline Vos POS Party Ember Sands 90	Posted - 2016.04.13 18:38:21 - [1469] - Quote Archange Rangee wrote: PotatoOverdose wrote: Rise: You do know that no one actually likes doing dailies in those other mmo's, right? Right? No one actually likes playing MMOs, but that's how all the interesting new games come out now so we don't have much choice. Coming from one of those players you all hate who logs in 3-5 times per year to update his skill queue. If I don't have anything worth training I'll hop around enough to pick up a few new books. If I've really got a bunch of time with nothing to do I might go mine a few rocks in noobspace. I have considered buying Tiny Miner so I'd have enough ISK to buy some ships and try some other stuff, but that seems like a lot of hassle. So there you have it. If you really want to make people log in and play you'll have to get rid of offline training. Yes, I said it. Deal with it. No, you just don't actually like Eve online. You like the stories, or the universe or whatever, but you don't actually like the game. The daily isn't really going to change any of that for you.
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 2748	Posted - 2016.04.13 18:44:26 - [1470] - Quote Eveline Vos wrote: Shallanna Yassavi wrote: Frostys Virpio wrote: PotatoOverdose wrote: Rise: You do know that no one actually likes doing dailies in those other mmo's, right? Right? You should check around before making assumptions like that. A request to remove the daily cap in WoW was commonly made because player felt they should be allowed to do as many as they wished instead of being capped at X per day. Disliking something, even if it's at the level of hating it with a passion does not mean everybody think like you. That makes them, by definition, not daily any more. You could only do each quest/batch of quests once per day, but there were so many factions that had dailies that a character cap of 25 "Daily Quests" per day wasn't enough to do them all, and all of them had reputation/faction rewards that were too good to pass up. It was awful. Nothing was required or too good to pass up. People feel like that but it's just not true. The real effectiveness of "exalted" requirement reward were always extremely small. The issue of "needing" it was always because people are not as good as they think they are and need those extra to clear content that can be done without it.
Invisusira Pentag Blade Curatores Veritatis Alliance 324	Posted - 2016.04.13 18:45:48 - [1471] - Quote EVE is in a fantastic spot right now. More content and more activity than ever before. I've never been happier to be playing this game. So it's not lightly that I say ****. RIGHT. OFF. WITH. THIS. EVE Music
Pupinia Stewart The Dark Space Initiative Scary Wormhole People 0	Posted - 2016.04.13 18:48:56 - [1472] - Quote Phew, thank god I unsubbed before I added another 6 months to my account. Off to Elite: Dangerous!
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 2748	Posted - 2016.04.13 18:58:51 - [1473] - Quote Invisusira wrote: EVE is in a fantastic spot right now. More content and more activity than ever before. I've never been happier to be playing this game. So it's not lightly that I say ***. RIGHT. OFF. WITH. THIS. Dailies exemplify everything that EVE is not. Play whenever* you want! Thanks to the time-based skill system, there are no commitments! (oops, not anymore!) Play however you want! PvE, PvP, Industry, Mining, In-station trading, it's all equally valuable! (oops, not anymore!) EVE is a sandbox. Dailies do not belong here. **** off with this slippery slope garbage. You will still be able to play when you want and how you want. You just don't get the bonus for it unless you also fulfill the bonus requirement. They don't pay you overtime if you don't do the overtime.
Shallanna Yassavi Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 131	Posted - 2016.04.13 19:00:44 - [1474] - Quote Eveline Vos wrote: Shallanna Yassavi wrote: Frostys Virpio wrote: PotatoOverdose wrote: Rise: You do know that no one actually likes doing dailies in those other mmo's, right? Right? You should check around before making assumptions like that. A request to remove the daily cap in WoW was commonly made because player felt they should be allowed to do as many as they wished instead of being capped at X per day. Disliking something, even if it's at the level of hating it with a passion does not mean everybody think like you. That makes them, by definition, not daily any more. You could only do each quest/batch of quests once per day, but there were so many factions that had dailies that a character cap of 25 "Daily Quests" per day wasn't enough to do them all, and all of them had reputation/faction rewards that were too good to pass up. It was awful. Ah, so that's how it works over there. My last MMO (SWTOR) had dailies and weeklies. Most of the weeklies could be done with two batches of dailies and some small multiplayer quest. And it was once per character, so you could make alts and treat them like dailies for a little bit of efficiency. I poked at them halfheartedly and still burned out. The most fun part of that game, for me, was the starfighter game. It was fast, kind of complicated, and they managed to make it so more than one class of ship was interesting to fly. It had a daily and weekly quest attached to it. A lot of the players in matches would take those quests and not bother learning the game, which in turn reinforced bad habits from players who should know better. The ground PvP game had a similar mechanic and problem. A signature :o
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 27402	Posted - 2016.04.13 19:01:39 - [1475] - Quote Pupinia Stewart wrote: Phew, thank god I unsubbed before I added another 6 months to my account. Off to Elite: Dangerous! See you at Sag A* GÇö don't forget to pack extra heat sinks. Frostys Virpio wrote: You will still be able to play when you want and how you want. You justGÇª GÇªget penalised for doing so. You can stop the charade and the pathetic excuses GÇö you know full well that this is what they're doing.
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 2748	Posted - 2016.04.13 19:04:29 - [1476] - Quote Tippia wrote: Pupinia Stewart wrote: Phew, thank god I unsubbed before I added another 6 months to my account. Off to Elite: Dangerous! See you at Sag A* GÇö don't forget to pack extra heat sinks. Frostys Virpio wrote: You will still be able to play when you want and how you want. You justGÇª GÇªget penalised for doing so. You can stop the charade and the pathetic excuses GÇö you know full well that this is what they're doing. The fact that a bunch of entitled babies can't see that they have a choice and instead feel forced to do something is not a pathetic excuse. I would not introduce something like that but I also understand that there are no penalty involved. Your sub does not entitle you to all the possible SP anymore. Some of it will have be be "earner" in a stupid way. That's all there is to it. If you feel forced to do it, seek help because the issue is in your head.
JonnyPew Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 44	Posted - 2016.04.13 19:06:33 - [1477] - Quote This morning on Singularity it was called "Daily Opportunities", but now it's called "Recurring Opportunities". How amusing. EVE Online is my hobby http://www.youtube.com/JonnyPew
Moac Tor Cyber Core Stain Confederation 493	Posted - 2016.04.13 19:06:43 - [1478] - Quote Invisusira wrote: EVE is in a fantastic spot right now. More content and more activity than ever before. I've never been happier to be playing this game. So it's not lightly that I say ***. RIGHT. OFF. WITH. THIS. Dailies exemplify everything that EVE is not. Play whenever* you want! Thanks to the time-based skill system, there are no commitments! (oops, not anymore!) Play however you want! PvE, PvP, Industry, Mining, In-station trading, it's all equally valuable! (oops, not anymore!) EVE is a sandbox. Dailies do not belong here. ** off with this slippery slope garbage. What is stupid about releasing this is that it is coming at a time when players are re-subbing to fight in the war and player activity is at a peak; and now these daily activities are going to incentivise players to stop fighting each other and to go and shoot rats. Modulated ECM Effects An Alternative to Skill Trading**
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 2748	Posted - 2016.04.13 19:07:19 - [1479] - Quote JonnyPew wrote: This morning on Singularity it was called "Daily Opportunities", but now it's called "Recurring Opportunities". How amusing. If it keeps the 22 hours cycle, it's not daily...
Niko Lorenzio United Eve Directorate 617	Posted - 2016.04.13 19:12:16 - [1480] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: Tippia wrote: Pupinia Stewart wrote: Phew, thank god I unsubbed before I added another 6 months to my account. Off to Elite: Dangerous! See you at Sag A* GÇö don't forget to pack extra heat sinks. Frostys Virpio wrote: You will still be able to play when you want and how you want. You justGÇª GÇªget penalised for doing so. You can stop the charade and the pathetic excuses GÇö you know full well that this is what they're doing. The fact that a bunch of entitled babies can't see that they have a choice and instead feel forced to do something is not a pathetic excuse. I would not introduce something like that but I also understand that there are no penalty involved. Your sub does not entitle you to all the possible SP anymore. Some of it will have be be "earned" in a stupid way. That's all there is to it. If you feel forced to do it, seek help because the issue is in your head. So the motivation here is to give everyone extra sp for no reason, not artificially force people to login and do X even if they weren't planning to, right? The CSM XI Election are now open until March 25th, 2016. Consider Niko Lorenzio for CSM XI. CSM matters, your voice matters, your vote matters!
Lugh Crow-Slave 2064	Posted - 2016.04.13 19:14:42 - [1481] - Quote Eveline Vos wrote: Frostys Virpio wrote: PotatoOverdose wrote: Rise: You do know that no one actually likes doing dailies in those other mmo's, right? Right? You should check around before making assumptions like that. A request to remove the daily cap in WoW was commonly made because player felt they should be allowed to do as many as they wished instead of being capped at X per day. Disliking something, even if it's at the level of hating it with a passion does not mean everybody think like you. No, the daily cap was asked to be removed because Blizzard wasn't going to remove dailies, and you literally needed to do more dailies in one day that the daily cap allowed due to the OUTRAGEOUS quantity of dailies added in Mists of Pandaria. PS- Nobody liked spending 2-4 hours a day/per character to get the "way too good to ignore" rewards so that they could keep up with raid progression. Exactly what we want to prevent from happening in eve Citadel worm hole tax
Tipa Riot Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 2390	Posted - 2016.04.13 19:14:51 - [1482] - Quote Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Nevyn Auscent wrote: Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote: We may discuss whether it's bullshit or don't, but there's one deeper layer into it: lower PCU (which is real) is toxic to EVE and CCP. Enough toxic to lead CCP into taking a controversial step to bribe players into becoming/providing content by just loggin in and being exposed to the sandbox.. Regardless of if the PCU issue is true, 5 minutes of login is not going to significantly add to the concurrent PCU which is the count that players get to see. It may affect the unique logins per day but that is a hidden statistic that only CCP can see how many Players, and Players is the important statistic not accounts, are logged in per day. Daily kill one NPC quests do not add content to the game in a significant manner, and they do not add significant engagement for the player. And they go directly against the 'EVE doesn't have an SP grind' selling point, not to mention making fools of everyone who claimed that Sp injectors were not the start of a slippery slope, because this right here is the next part of the slippery slope mere months later. Not to mention weer know ccp was blatantly dishonest with us when they said training would be the only way to get sp fir the injector because this was in the works when they posted that So at the very least we know they don't respect is enough to tell us the truth Tinfoil hat EDIT Also this is kinda big yet there is not even a hint that a dev blog will be put out anytime soon. It's almost like ccp doesn't want to be called out for sneaking thus in but they also don't want the majority of eve to know about it yet I'm pretty sure, CCP Rise didn't know about this plans when he posted his devblog. This is different than the originally announced tribute system. Now he looks like an idiot, 50% because of this business decision and 50% because his team didn't come up with a better idea to increase PCU. But I agree, hiding unpopular announcements in long threads or on reddit is a thing recently ... where is the devblog about the upcoming NPC trading fee increase and the "PvP tax"? I'm my own NPC alt.
Niko Lorenzio United Eve Directorate 617	Posted - 2016.04.13 19:15:31 - [1483] - Quote Invisusira wrote: EVE is in a fantastic spot right now. More content and more activity than ever before. I've never been happier to be playing this game. So it's not lightly that I say ***. RIGHT. OFF. WITH. THIS. Dailies exemplify everything that EVE is not. Play whenever* you want! Thanks to the time-based skill system, there are no commitments! (oops, not anymore!) Play however you want! PvE, PvP, Industry, Mining, In-station trading, it's all equally valuable! (oops, not anymore!) EVE is a sandbox. Dailies do not belong here. ** off with this slippery slope garbage. It actually has less activity than the historical average. Still you nailed the other points. The CSM XI Election are now open until March 25th, 2016.** Consider Niko Lorenzio for CSM XI. CSM matters, your voice matters, your vote matters!
Lugh Crow-Slave 2065	Posted - 2016.04.13 19:17:55 - [1484] - Quote Tipa Riot wrote: Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Nevyn Auscent wrote: Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote: We may discuss whether it's bullshit or don't, but there's one deeper layer into it: lower PCU (which is real) is toxic to EVE and CCP. Enough toxic to lead CCP into taking a controversial step to bribe players into becoming/providing content by just loggin in and being exposed to the sandbox.. Regardless of if the PCU issue is true, 5 minutes of login is not going to significantly add to the concurrent PCU which is the count that players get to see. It may affect the unique logins per day but that is a hidden statistic that only CCP can see how many Players, and Players is the important statistic not accounts, are logged in per day. Daily kill one NPC quests do not add content to the game in a significant manner, and they do not add significant engagement for the player. And they go directly against the 'EVE doesn't have an SP grind' selling point, not to mention making fools of everyone who claimed that Sp injectors were not the start of a slippery slope, because this right here is the next part of the slippery slope mere months later. Not to mention weer know ccp was blatantly dishonest with us when they said training would be the only way to get sp fir the injector because this was in the works when they posted that So at the very least we know they don't respect is enough to tell us the truth Tinfoil hat EDIT Also this is kinda big yet there is not even a hint that a dev blog will be put out anytime soon. It's almost like ccp doesn't want to be called out for sneaking thus in but they also don't want the majority of eve to know about it yet I'm pretty sure, CCP Rise didn't know about this plans when he posted his devblog. This is different than the originally announced tribute system. Now he looks like an idiot, 50% because of this business decision and 50% because his team didn't come up with a better idea to increase PCU. But I agree, hiding unpopular announcements in long threads or on reddit is a thing recently ... where is the devblog about the upcoming NPC trading fee increase and the "PvP tax"? Even if he didn't know some one at ccp did and it should have been caught off they didn't want to look so shady To be honest this and how they are avoid making things like this as public as possible shows to me that they know it's not something that players will be happy with but they don't care Citadel worm hole tax
Terranid Meester Tactical Assault and Recon Unit 361	Posted - 2016.04.13 19:18:40 - [1485] - Quote If they add this at least i'll have the time to concentrate on Star Citizen.
Soldarius O C C U P Y Test Alliance Please Ignore 1491	Posted - 2016.04.13 19:20:47 - [1486] - Quote Well.... erm.... **** it. I'll take 10k free SP every day just for killing a belt rat in a noob ship. http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY
Mornak Exotic Dancers Union SONS of BANE 89	Posted - 2016.04.13 19:20:52 - [1487] - Quote I'm not opposed to this in general, i actually like the basic idea quite a lot. As a small/solo pvper i welcome anything that makes people undock. But I agree with the raised concerns that 10k a day is quite a lot. The main problem I have with this idea though is that you profit most if you log in 7d/week... that's just not realistic (and not healthy either, let's be honest). Therefore I personally would set it to 10k/day with a maximum/cap of 20k/week (maybe 30k). If, as a newbro, you are almost 'forced' to log in every day, it will be a bit much (10k is really a lot for a <5-10m SP character!). Playing one single game 7 days a week is more than unrealistic, some would call it madness. 2-3 times/days a week is much more reasonable and, given the required time to kill a rat, a reasonable amount. Everything above that is everyone's personal choice, but a game should not ask for more than that. I also do not believe that the 7d/w approach will create any more revenue for ccp than the 2-3d/w version.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 27403	Posted - 2016.04.13 19:21:03 - [1488] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: The fact that a bunch of wakka wakka wakka The fact that you must insult people just to try to mount a feeble defence against a very blatant attempt to force people to log in does not make it any less forced, nor does it make the excuse any less pathetic. Quite the opposite. Again: just because you have a choice does not mean you're not being forced. You even explained yourself why it qualifies as forcing them. And yet, you are making up excuses for CCP dictating player behaviour; for CCP forcing players to engage in the worst gameplay EVE has to offer. You can try to rephrase it any way you like, but it doesn't change what they're doing.
Animorpheus Aven Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde 11	Posted - 2016.04.13 19:24:18 - [1489] - Quote I would like to see the system much improved before implementation. Some personal pro vs con list. Pro - Does increase my sp intake significantly, especially because I hardly use implants... When I pvp, i go all in and almost always rather want to be podded than flying all the way back. Con - I log in almost exclusively in the weekends to play the game. So having to do these tasks, on a week-day, would mostly seem as choir to me. It would not provide any more personal benefit, as I wouldn't do anything else than exactly that task, and then log off. - If I don't have the time to do a task, then I would have the feeling of "missing out", which is absolutely a negative experience. - I do not feel this fits the Eve Lore in any way. - The game is sandbox, and I have the feeling you are implicit forcing me to play the game, even when I don't want to. Which may be risking to burn me out. - The tasks, for now, seems quite boring. I will constantly have to outweigh on how much i bother to play Eve today. - From personal experience with; WoW, Hearthstone & Heroes of the Storm, the dailies quickly led to boring and repetitive gameplay. It became a grind, and didn't lead to anything meaningful. Ideas for solutions: - Do not make it a daily, maybe weekly. Not a big fan, but I could consider that a compromise. - Expand on the task list significantly - Create meaningful tasks or something fun and unique (look at hearthstone with their weekly tavern brawls). They found an amazing way to engage players. - Make sure it has something to do with the lore!!!! Best regards Animorpheus Aven ps. Thanks for all the great moments this game has given us. CCP Rise wrote: Hi I'm here to give you guys a heads up that sometime early next week a small daily activity reward feature will be hitting Singularity and will hopefully be making its way to TQ sometime just after Citadel. As you guys surely know, having people in game and in space is great and we want to start promoting and rewarding activity a little more directly. The version of the feature we are planning to deploy first will be a simple 10,000 skill point reward that a character will receive the first time they kill an NPC ship every 22 hours (limited one character per account per day, chosen based on which character completes the task first). The skillpoints will go into your unallocated pool to be used however you like. You will find the status of your daily skill boost in the Opportunities info panel and you will also receive notifications to let you know when it becomes available. That's it for now. If this goes well we hope to expand in several ways, but more on that later! Feedback appreciate as always, CCP Rise for Team Size Matters Responding to feedback
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 2748	Posted - 2016.04.13 19:24:41 - [1490] - Quote Niko Lorenzio wrote: Frostys Virpio wrote: Tippia wrote: Pupinia Stewart wrote: Phew, thank god I unsubbed before I added another 6 months to my account. Off to Elite: Dangerous! See you at Sag A* GÇö don't forget to pack extra heat sinks. Frostys Virpio wrote: You will still be able to play when you want and how you want. You justGÇª GÇªget penalised for doing so. You can stop the charade and the pathetic excuses GÇö you know full well that this is what they're doing. The fact that a bunch of entitled babies can't see that they have a choice and instead feel forced to do something is not a pathetic excuse. I would not introduce something like that but I also understand that there are no penalty involved. Your sub does not entitle you to all the possible SP anymore. Some of it will have be be "earned" in a stupid way. That's all there is to it. If you feel forced to do it, seek help because the issue is in your head. So the motivation here is to give everyone extra sp for no reason, not artificially force people to login and do X even if they weren't planning to, right? Nope. They want you to log-in and do something and for that, they are willing to give you a gift. If you don't do it, you can still play however you want whenever you want. It is clearly identified that it is intended to make us log-in more often but you can still either not log in if you don't feel like it or not kill a rat even if logged in if you don't feel like killing a rat. They want more log-ins and know they have no way to FORCE you to do so unless they go with drastic measure like cancelling your subs if you fail to log-in. On the other hand, they can definitely hang a carrot ahead of you and give it to your on their condition. If you don't want the carrot, nothing bad happen to you as apposed to a forced system where something bad would happen to you if you failed to meet the requirement.
Erihn Sabrovich 9	Posted - 2016.04.13 19:25:42 - [1491] - Quote wurstsalat wrote: You were proven wrong by many alliances, just to take the biggest example, BRAVE. Literally a 2 week old character or whatever who recruited all the newbies and said "Let's go" and they proceeded to play with the big guys. Now they are part of the war against the biggest former coalition. Don't tell people that newbeans can't make a difference, because that's simply lying, 200 people in thrashers which take like 1 week to train at most can do a lot of damage, and if you can maintain a standing fleet of 200 thrashers you can own sov easily and generate a lot of content for everyone. None of what you say makes sense. Stop spouting bullshit. It's clear you don't know anything about this game. Your hypocrisy make me laugh... You're speaking about 200 trashers aligned by some new players alliance... For a "normal" alliance, although it's possible, it's not very probable... but Powerblocks are on another scale... Battle at B-R5RB was more than 7500 pilots involved, including ships from the frigate to the titans... Well, most battle don't go to such epic levels, but it remains that the scales are totally different... That's what makes them powerblocks... Powerblocks can quite easily bring an handful of capitals to support the other ships should such a fleet of 200 trasher come... I was part of a powerblock in another game, I do know how these can be organized... And, although it was fun for us... it was way less fun for the other (not in powerblock). We were raiding whole galaxies each days... and the only who'd bring some decent defense against us were those affiliated to other powerblocks... The game was different but the powerblock mechanics and politics were the same... For another example, how many Moons R64 controlled by other alliances than those belonging to powerblock ? Nearly none... But... you just said that normal players/alliances can stand against powerblocks...
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 2748	Posted - 2016.04.13 19:27:45 - [1492] - Quote Tippia wrote: Frostys Virpio wrote: The fact that a bunch of wakka wakka wakka The fact that you must insult people just to try to mount a feeble defence against a very blatant attempt to force people to log in does not make it any less forced, nor does it make the excuse any less pathetic. Quite the opposite. Again: just because you have a choice does not mean you're not being forced. You even explained yourself why it qualifies as forcing them. And yet, you are making up excuses for CCP dictating player behaviour; for CCP forcing players to engage in the worst gameplay EVE has to offer. You can try to rephrase it any way you like, but it doesn't change what they're doing. Your are dense and that is the problem. Unless CCP start handing out punishment for not doing the activity, you will not be forced to do so. No matter how you feel about it, they haven't even hinted at any form of punishment so your argument of being punished is garbage but you can keep pushing it all you want. You don't get punished for being wrong here.
Lugh Crow-Slave 2065	Posted - 2016.04.13 19:31:10 - [1493] - Quote Soldarius wrote: Well.... erm.... **** it. I'll take 10k free SP every day just for killing a belt rat in a noob ship. When a dealer offers you a free sample is never a good idea to take it Citadel worm hole tax
Lugh Crow-Slave 2065	Posted - 2016.04.13 19:32:11 - [1494] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: Tippia wrote: Frostys Virpio wrote: The fact that a bunch of wakka wakka wakka The fact that you must insult people just to try to mount a feeble defence against a very blatant attempt to force people to log in does not make it any less forced, nor does it make the excuse any less pathetic. Quite the opposite. Again: just because you have a choice does not mean you're not being forced. You even explained yourself why it qualifies as forcing them. And yet, you are making up excuses for CCP dictating player behaviour; for CCP forcing players to engage in the worst gameplay EVE has to offer. You can try to rephrase it any way you like, but it doesn't change what they're doing. Your are dense and that is the problem. Unless CCP start handing out punishment for not doing the activity, you will not be forced to do so. No matter how you feel about it, they haven't even hinted at any form of punishment so your argument of being punished is garbage but you can keep pushing it all you want. You don't get punished for being wrong here. Of players feel like they are being punished then they are being punished Citadel worm hole tax
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 2749	Posted - 2016.04.13 19:36:22 - [1495] - Quote Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Frostys Virpio wrote: Tippia wrote: Frostys Virpio wrote: The fact that a bunch of wakka wakka wakka The fact that you must insult people just to try to mount a feeble defence against a very blatant attempt to force people to log in does not make it any less forced, nor does it make the excuse any less pathetic. Quite the opposite. Again: just because you have a choice does not mean you're not being forced. You even explained yourself why it qualifies as forcing them. And yet, you are making up excuses for CCP dictating player behaviour; for CCP forcing players to engage in the worst gameplay EVE has to offer. You can try to rephrase it any way you like, but it doesn't change what they're doing. Your are dense and that is the problem. Unless CCP start handing out punishment for not doing the activity, you will not be forced to do so. No matter how you feel about it, they haven't even hinted at any form of punishment so your argument of being punished is garbage but you can keep pushing it all you want. You don't get punished for being wrong here. Of players feel like they are being punished then they are being punished If CCP offered 10k SP for deleting every single one asset you have access to, you would feel punished for not doing it?
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 27407	Posted - 2016.04.13 19:38:19 - [1496] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: Nope. They want you to log-in and do something and for that, they are willing to GÇªgive you something that cannot be had in any other way: time. In order to get this unique and incomparably valuable commodity, you are forced to engage in an activity that serves absolutely no other purpose. Quote: They want more log-ins and know they have no way to FORCE you to do so unless they go with drastic measure like cancelling your subs if you fail to log-in. Yes they do. They even acknowledge that they do, but that they removed the other way(s) and want to institute this nonsense to make up for that mistake. If for some inconceivable or irrational reason they refuse to fix the error they made, they could even take this abortion and turn it into something sensible to get to their old numbers. They have tons of ways of making people log in more often without actually forcing them, and they know this. They're just lazy and choose the most idiotic and abusive method instead: by force. Quote: Your are dense and that is the problem. Unless CCP start handing out punishment for not doing the activity You have no argument, and that is entirely your problem. If you had one, you wouldn't have to resort to these pathetic fallacies. CCP is handing out punishment for not doing the activity: they're reducing your training time from something on the order of 28GÇô30 hours per day to a mere 24 (or, if you like to 18GÇô20 hours rather than 24). Every day you refuse to do what they want, you lose somewhere between -+ and GàÖ of that day compared to those who comply. Do it for a year, and you've lost three months. If you don't see the punishment for non-conformance in this, you need to wake up. Quote: If CCP offered 10k SP for deleting every single one asset you have access to, you would feel punished for not doing it? At that point, there's opportunity for an actual reasonable choice to exist.
Huckomi G'Noo Norse Complex Inc Wiking Were Wabbits 0	Posted - 2016.04.13 19:46:42 - [1497] - Quote Darkblad wrote: Well, a hint for that feature was available a while ago on the very. useful. and. always. true. updates site. WoW - Sometime in the future I may be able to buy SP direct from Concord as apparently they have a stockpile of them - who knew
Lugh Crow-Slave 2065	Posted - 2016.04.13 19:51:29 - [1498] - Quote Huckomi G'Noo wrote: Darkblad wrote: Well, a hint for that feature was available a while ago on the very. useful. and. always. true. updates site. WoW - Sometime in the future I may be able to buy SP direct from Concord as apparently they have a stockpile of them - who knew at this rate we should be able to expect just buying 100, 200 and 300 mill sp characters right from ccp Citadel worm hole tax
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 2750	Posted - 2016.04.13 19:54:29 - [1499] - Quote Tippia wrote: Frostys Virpio wrote: Nope. They want you to log-in and do something and for that, they are willing to GÇªgive you something that cannot be had in any other way: time. In order to get this unique and incomparably valuable commodity, you are forced to engage in an activity that serves absolutely no other purpose. Injectors? You can also wait and get those 10k SP over time anyway. Buying a character off the bazar? The SP are still only keys to unlock access to stuff and you get keys over time. If you are on a rush, there are options to skip the waiting. One of them include in-game risk (implants) while others usually involve ingame or out of game money. (Character bazaar and injectors) It's like the old clone problem except you get a reward for doing the universally "good" choice of killing rat while the clone used to punish you for choosing the "wrong" option. They both are terrible implementation but one is punitive by setting you back when you fail it while the other push your forward for doing good. Deleting your SP for failing to have an upgrade close was a punishment. You were losing something. This don't make you lose anything in it's current planified implementation. That's what I've been saying. It's not a punishment because there are no negative result for you. You still can do all you could do and still have all you had before even if you fail it. All your SP are still there. Your game time is still intact. Your assets still belong to you. Your account is still active. Your sec status is still as it were before. Your wallet is not wiped. Your pod is not moved in a WH alone. You are not punished.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 27408	Posted - 2016.04.13 19:58:21 - [1500] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: Injectors? Do not create time. Quote: Buying a character off the bazar? Does not create time. Quote: Deleting your SP for failing to have an upgrade close was a punishment. You were losing something. And by reducing your day from 24 hours to 18, you are losing something: time. You are being punished for your non-conformance by losing time. It's not a very difficult concept to grasp, and it is not very difficult to see how they could easily get the result they want without this submoronic strategy GÇö all they have to do is accept that they mad a bad decision, change their mind, and reverse the error they made. GÇªand that's before we even get creative and suggest they do some actual development work.
Huckomi G'Noo Norse Complex Inc Wiking Were Wabbits 0	Posted - 2016.04.13 20:05:44 - [1501] - Quote Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Huckomi G'Noo wrote: Darkblad wrote: Well, a hint for that feature was available a while ago on the very. useful. and. always. true. updates site. WoW - Sometime in the future I may be able to buy SP direct from Concord as apparently they have a stockpile of them - who knew at this rate we should be able to expect just buying 100, 200 and 300 mill sp characters right from ccp If we assume the SP Concord have gathered these "SP" from the wastage inherent in the use of Injectors expressed though a system with built in diminishing returns - surely the reverse should apply. I say : A newbie gets 20% of the reward - as new and eager player does not need more incentive to log in An 80mill SP Toon gets 100% - bitter and disillusion vets need a lot more incentive
Arcturus Ursidae Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation 18	Posted - 2016.04.13 20:12:09 - [1502] - Quote Thrill of the hunt completed. Did this on an alt, old character never had a skill queue, what I had not realised is that without the training certificate thing you can't even access the skill queue, but you can still apply points directly. Gunnery 3 less than 10,000 skill points. Woot woot. The interface is ok I guess, bit bland not exactly engaging. Will there be more background to this? A news story etc, would be nice to see more lore about this, I am really not a big fan of the somewhat sterile opportunities interface. The timer is annoying, many will view it as a minor issue I guess but it will play on my mind log in earlier to play when time is available and then log in later to get the skill points but not really play. Again this. "If this has to happen the 22hr timer has to go. Anytime from down time to downtime at least please."
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 2750	Posted - 2016.04.13 20:12:54 - [1503] - Quote Tippia wrote: Frostys Virpio wrote: Injectors? Do not create time. Quote: Buying a character off the bazar? Does not create time. Quote: Deleting your SP for failing to have an upgrade close was a punishment. You were losing something. And by reducing your day from 24 hours to 18, you are losing something: time. You are being punished for your non-conformance by losing time. It's not a very difficult concept to grasp, and it is not very difficult to see how they could easily get the result they want without this submoronic strategy GÇö all they have to do is accept that they mad a bad decision, change their mind, and reverse the error they made. GÇªand that's before we even get creative and suggest they do some actual development work. Last time I checked, my time is completely independant from CCP changes. I still live 24 hours each day. What CCP is giving you is SP. You can get SP through many different way. One of them is completely passive and granted by having an active skillqueue and a skill queued in that queue. The second one is to get your hands on SP injectors and using them on the character of your choice. The third one is to buy a character who has SP you want on it and using him for his SP in any way, shape or form you wish. Coming in the next update, you will have another way. It will be a new feature called opportunity and in it's first form, involve the requirement of killing a rat for a payment of 10k sp. This is repeatable 22 hours after the preceding completion. Every single one of those game mechanic gives you SP. They enver gave you time. The only thing where time mattered was when you decided you wanted to get SP in the passive way. Guess what, you will still get every single one of those SP as long as you, of course, still fulfill the requirement of having an active queue and a skill in there too. Don't forget about those 2 because while you might not get punished for failing at having a queue active or a skill in there, you might feel you do. The other ones didn't involve any of your time. They possibly involved someone else's time but that is a non issue because you can't buy or trade time. Some people are doing research into it but as of right now, we only get 24 hours each day and that's it. Time was never created in the game. On the other hand, SP has been created ever since someone queued his first skill. Whoever managed to pull that off, congratulation, you indeed were the first and no-one can ever take that from you. For everyone else, we just weren't the first but we still managed to get our fair share of SP out of the passive method. Over time, CCP decided they want to give us more options and they did. The bazaar was a somewhat efficient of getting SP at an accelerated rate but like anything else, it had it's limitation. SP injectors then came with their own set of limitation. Soon, opportunity will also offer SP with their own unique limitation. You will still get your 24 hours of training each day unless : 1- You un-sub 2- You have no skill queued 3- The server on which our training is processed crash. 4- EVE effectively die. (You might still be on an active sub when this happen)
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 27410	Posted - 2016.04.13 20:21:46 - [1504] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: Last time I checked, my time is completely independant from CCP changes. That's because this change hasn't gone through yet. Quote: I still live 24 hours each day. What CCP is giving you is SP. GÇªand those SP are accumulated over time. In one day, you get 24h worth of them at the moment. With this idea, non-conformance means you only get 18GÇô20h of them as punishment. Quote: You will still get your 24 hours of training No. You still train 24 hours per day. But those 24 hours will only be worth 18GÇô20 GÇö that's all you get in a day unless you comply. Daily. If you want to get the full 24h, you have to do what CCP wants you to do, when they want you to do it, rather than what you'd actually want to do when you want to do it.
Terhiss Sanctuary of Shadows Triumvirate. 166	Posted - 2016.04.13 20:24:59 - [1505] - Quote Why I think you're shooting yourself in the foot: it WILL become a daily chore like Guild wars 2 etc. Why? Everybody wants more SP. If not for only the pure skillpoints, with the current skill extractors you're basically giving the vets 300k additional SP per month to convert in isk and flood the economy with. If your intention is to inject more isk into the economy, cause inflation and bring skill injector prices down, go ahead, but it might also mean less subrsciptions paid with money and more isk-paid subscriptions, because more players will have more SP ready to convert in isk. I think you should introduce diminished returns for higher SP accounts, if you do it.
Huckomi G'Noo Norse Complex Inc Wiking Were Wabbits 1	Posted - 2016.04.13 20:28:44 - [1506] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: Tippia wrote: Frostys Virpio wrote: Injectors? Do not create time. Quote: Buying a character off the bazar? Does not create time. Quote: Deleting your SP for failing to have an upgrade close was a punishment. You were losing something. And by reducing your day from 24 hours to 18, you are losing something: time. You are being punished for your non-conformance by losing time. It's not a very difficult concept to grasp, and it is not very difficult to see how they could easily get the result they want without this submoronic strategy GÇö all they have to do is accept that they mad a bad decision, change their mind, and reverse the error they made. GÇªand that's before we even get creative and suggest they do some actual development work. Last time I checked, my time is completely independant from CCP changes. I still live 24 hours each day. What CCP is giving you is SP. You can get SP through many different way. One of them is completely passive and granted by having an active skillqueue and a skill queued in that queue. The second one is to get your hands on SP injectors and using them on the character of your choice. The third one is to buy a character who has SP you want on it and using him for his SP in any way, shape or form you wish. Coming in the next update, you will have another way. It will be a new feature called opportunity and in it's first form, involve the requirement of killing a rat for a payment of 10k sp. This is repeatable 22 hours after the preceding completion. Every single one of those game mechanic gives you SP. They enver gave you time. The only thing where time mattered was when you decided you wanted to get SP in the passive way. Guess what, you will still get every single one of those SP as long as you, of course, still fulfill the requirement of having an active queue and a skill in there too. Don't forget about those 2 because while you might not get punished for failing at having a queue active or a skill in there, you might feel you do. The other ones didn't involve any of your time. They possibly involved someone else's time but that is a non issue because you can't buy or trade time. Some people are doing research into it but as of right now, we only get 24 hours each day and that's it. Time was never created in the game. On the other hand, SP has been created ever since someone queued his first skill. Whoever managed to pull that off, congratulation, you indeed were the first and no-one can ever take that from you. For everyone else, we just weren't the first but we still managed to get our fair share of SP out of the passive method. Over time, CCP decided they want to give us more options and they did. The bazaar was a somewhat efficient of getting SP at an accelerated rate but like anything else, it had it's limitation. SP injectors then came with their own set of limitation. Soon, opportunity will also offer SP with their own unique limitation. You will still get your 24 hours of training each day unless : 1- You un-sub 2- You have no skill queued 3- The server on which our training is processed crash. 4- EVE effectively die. (You might still be on an active sub when this happen) ....and now you will be able to get extra SP in that 24 hour subbed period - All you have to do is log in and jump through a hoop for those extra SP Maybe later you will get less SP per day and the only way to get more is to jump though some more hoops Eventually you may have no SP for being subbed for that 24 hours period but no problem as you will have lots and lots of Hoops to jump through to get your Skill Points .... unless you buy boosts to make the hoops give you more SP ....and welcome to WOW
PotatoOverdose Royal Black Watch Highlanders White Legion. 2767	Posted - 2016.04.13 20:30:51 - [1507] - Quote Terhiss wrote: it WILL become a daily chore like Guild wars 2 etc. I liked that game. But dailies excacerbated burnout there just as they did in WoW and other mmo's. Vet burnout is a real problem in eve. Owing to the ongoing war, we have many people logging in for the first time in years. Do we really want to accelerate their burnout?
S4m Cr0w Duo d'un homme 1	Posted - 2016.04.13 20:33:22 - [1508] - Quote Me and my other 3 subbed accounts says NO. I didn't chose to play to WoW, I chose EVE because anyone, casual or hardcore gamer, would advanced at the same rate. Wasn't really happy about injectors, really appalled by this shittyshitty idea. Throw out whoever thought this be good for eve. bad CCP, bad.
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 2750	Posted - 2016.04.13 20:37:18 - [1509] - Quote Tippia wrote: Frostys Virpio wrote: Last time I checked, my time is completely independant from CCP changes. That's because this change hasn't gone through yet. Quote: I still live 24 hours each day. What CCP is giving you is SP. GÇªand those SP are accumulated over time. In one day, you get 24h worth of them at the moment. With this idea, non-conformance means you only get 18GÇô20h of them as punishment. Quote: You will still get your 24 hours of training No. You still train 24 hours per day. But those 24 hours will only be worth 18GÇô20 GÇö that's all you get in a day unless you comply. Daily. If you want to get the full 24h, you have to do what CCP wants you to do, when they want you to do it, rather than what you'd actually want to do when you want to do it. Nope. You get 25 hours or training for having an active queu for 24 hours with a skill in there and you will still get 24 hours of SP for having a queu active for those 24 hours with a skill there. The passive earning of SP is not getting changed. If your idea of it is true, everyone is always punished for not capping their SP like IronBank did because it's available. It's even more punishing to those who can't because the market of injectors would dry up faster than people cap cap all characters. This is of course completely false. Nobody got punished for IronBank PR stunt because we were still getting all we were supposed to get as long as we still met the requirement to get it. The opportunity will behave the same way. I will get all the SP I qualify for and not receive those I don't qualify for. I currently qualify for the passive one. Rich people sometime decide to qualify themselves for injectors and/or the bazaar way. That's their choice to take and they are not penalizing me for doing so. The opportunity will be the same. I will decide to either run it or not in which case, I will or won't get my due completely dependent to my willingness to qualify. If I choose not to kill a rat because I have something more fun to do with my life, then I will do something more fun with my life and just no earn other SP than the one I qualify for. If others get more SP than I do, then so be it. Many already do by purchasing characters, injectors or using implants. Why would I care more about those 10k SP when I don't care about the millions they jump to in mere hours? Because it's easier to get? If they make it harder, the very single thing they try to achieve with this bad idea is wasted so it absolutely has to be easy. It's stupid but it's the only way that stupid feature will get them what they want.
Seven Koskanaiken FinFleet Northern Coalition. 1725	Posted - 2016.04.13 20:40:09 - [1510] - Quote You know how that go, right? Gave myself all these little rules about what I wouldn't do. Like I told myself I'd do a lot of ** to get SP, but I swore I wouldn't ever trick. So, after I'm tricking, I thought, "This ain't so bad. I'll do this for a while, except I'll make some more rules for myself, like I'm going to use condoms, and I'm never going to go with more than one guy at the same time". Well, let's just say that there are some things that I told myself I would never do. You know what my SP addiction did to my rules, right? Whatever it is you tell yourself you won't do to get level V's, you're pretty much making a list of everything you will do as soon as your inner SP addict tells you to. I mean, that *** wants to kill me. She does.
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 2750	Posted - 2016.04.13 20:40:26 - [1511] - Quote Huckomi G'Noo wrote: ....and now you will be able to get extra SP in that 24 hour subbed period - All you have to do is log in and jump through a hoop for those extra SP Maybe later you will get less SP per day and the only way to get more is to jump though some more hoops Eventually you may have no SP for being subbed for that 24 hours period but no problem as you will have lots and lots of Hoops to jump through to get your Skill Points .... unless you buy boosts to make the hoops give you more SP ....and welcome to WOW You can already get more as long as you are willing to jump through a different set of hoops for each of them. Burn ISK on implants and put them in your head. Collect extra SP. Remap correctly for your current skills. Collect extra SP. Buy injectors off the market. Collect extra SP. Buy character from the bazaar. Collect extra SP.
marclass POS Party Ember Sands 0	Posted - 2016.04.13 20:42:09 - [1512] - Quote ** dailies. If this change goes live CCP will be punishing players whose play styles don't fit into some badly thought out notion of how CCP thinks Eve should be played. Have a few long term scouts seeded into a WH? You can't move them to k space every day to run dailies without tipping off the locals you're there and blowing an entire eviction. Have a super? Now you have to log it in every day and risk it getting blown up or get punished. Have a life and can't log on every day? Live in a C5 and don't have reliable access to k space? Less SP for you! CCP shouldn't be punishing players because they can't log in every day. ** off with dailes.
Erihn Sabrovich 9	Posted - 2016.04.13 20:42:51 - [1513] - Quote 10k SP a day... an injector is 150k SP (for older users)... Which means that if you buy 2 injectors per month, you get the same amount of SP... So, those who earn billions in trading or other can easily skip the dailies and use injectors for the same goal : buying some skill... higher SP is not the goal, skills are... Skills to pilot new ships, to use new weapons, to be able to use either shield or armor, ... in other words, skills to unlock parts of the gameplay. And as soon as you can buy PLEX for real life money, ISK for PLEX and Injectors for ISK... this means that you can say that you can already buy SP for real life money so SP are not worth so much anymore in game after all... You don't want to do dailies ? nothing FORCES you to do them... someone talked about WoW... well, correct me if I'm wrong but WoW's dailies are about reputation which allow you to get some OPTIONNAL items... Since LK or Cata, Reputation as a key to access raids is no more present... Some do the rep grinds, other don't... it's all about CHOICE... choice to spend time to do one thing or to spend it doing something else... If you're stupid enough to think that you have no choice but doing the dailies, it's time to think about getting a REAL LIFE and looking for a psychiatric institution !!! EVE is a GAME... a game is about spending some time enjoying it, not about recreating the everyday problems ingame... it's about disconnecting from your everyday stress while shooting some other player or NPC, while trading some merchandise on the market or emptying some asteroid belt, ... If you can't understand that, you're not an asset to the game but a liability !!!
Stormin The Dominus Conglomerate 0	Posted - 2016.04.13 20:45:31 - [1514] - Quote CCP Rise wrote: Hi I'm here to give you guys a heads up that sometime early next week a small daily activity reward feature will be hitting Singularity and will hopefully be making its way to TQ sometime just after Citadel. As you guys surely know, having people in game and in space is great and we want to start promoting and rewarding activity a little more directly. The version of the feature we are planning to deploy first will be a simple 10,000 skill point reward that a character will receive the first time they kill an NPC ship every 22 hours (limited one character per account per day, chosen based on which character completes the task first). The skillpoints will go into your unallocated pool to be used however you like. You will find the status of your daily skill boost in the Opportunities info panel and you will also receive notifications to let you know when it becomes available. That's it for now. If this goes well we hope to expand in several ways, but more on that later! Feedback appreciate as always, CCP Rise for Team Size Matters Responding to feedback I look at this as a general SP increase per day/mo/yr for everyone in the game. Theoretically if everyone takes advantage the new system the gain is equal among all players. The end result being 3,650,000 SP more per year than we previously had. In reality not everyone will be taking advantage the same though, some people are not able to log on every day. For this reason I think an account should store up more than one mission at a time. For example if you could have 7 total daily events saved up, it would be possible for someone who can only play over the weekend to still gain the same amount of SP as everyone else. You might argue it doesn't need to be equal for everyone, ISK for example can be accumulated faster if you play more frequently. The difference here is that SP was essentially the same for everyone, with the exception of implants and min/maxing remaps everyone at a base level earns SP at the same rate. This change will make it so that is no longer the case. Overall I like the idea of having more SP per year, this is in no way a bad thing. It's just important to have it balanced out for those who play casually vs every day.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 27410	Posted - 2016.04.13 20:51:01 - [1515] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: Nope. You get 25 24 hours or training for having an active queu for 24 hours with a skill in there and you will still get 24 hours of SP for having a queu active for those 24 hours with a skill there. No. Again: you train for 24 hours. This is not the same thing as getting 24h worth of training. With this change, your training for 24h will only get you 18GÇô28h worth of training. To get the full 24 hours worth, you have to obey. If you don't, you get punished. Quote: I will get all the SP I qualify for and not receive those I don't qualify for. In other words, by not conforming to CCP's demands on when and how to play, you are being punished by having your daily allotment of SP reduced to only 18GÇô20 hours worth, as opposed to the full 24 hours. You lose time. Quote: It's stupid but it's the only way that stupid feature will get them what they want. GÇªexcept that they have already explicitly confirmed that it is not. It's stupid because CCP stupidly refuses to accept and admit that they did something stupid, so instead they double down and hope GÇö stupidly GÇö that one stupidity will cancel the other out. This, of course, is even more stupid than either stupidity in isolation, but that's CCP for you: better to be stupid at a geometric rate than to change your mind and admit fault.
Lugh Crow-Slave 2065	Posted - 2016.04.13 20:52:59 - [1516] - Quote Stormin wrote: CCP Rise wrote: Hi I'm here to give you guys a heads up that sometime early next week a small daily activity reward feature will be hitting Singularity and will hopefully be making its way to TQ sometime just after Citadel. As you guys surely know, having people in game and in space is great and we want to start promoting and rewarding activity a little more directly. The version of the feature we are planning to deploy first will be a simple 10,000 skill point reward that a character will receive the first time they kill an NPC ship every 22 hours (limited one character per account per day, chosen based on which character completes the task first). The skillpoints will go into your unallocated pool to be used however you like. You will find the status of your daily skill boost in the Opportunities info panel and you will also receive notifications to let you know when it becomes available. That's it for now. If this goes well we hope to expand in several ways, but more on that later! Feedback appreciate as always, CCP Rise for Team Size Matters Responding to feedback I look at this as a general SP increase per day/mo/yr for everyone in the game. Theoretically if everyone takes advantage the new system the gain is equal among all players. The end result being 3,650,000 SP more per year than we previously had. In reality not everyone will be taking advantage the same though, some people are not able to log on every day. For this reason I think an account should store up more than one mission at a time. For example if you could have 7 total daily events saved up, it would be possible for someone who can only play over the weekend to still gain the same amount of SP as everyone else. You might argue it doesn't need to be equal for everyone, ISK for example can be accumulated faster if you play more frequently. The difference here is that SP was essentially the same for everyone, with the exception of implants and min/maxing remaps everyone at a base level earns SP at the same rate. This change will make it so that is no longer the case. Overall I like the idea of having more SP per year, this is in no way a bad thing. It's just important to have it balanced out for those who play casually vs every day. i listed something similar to this after rise said it was to replace the old queue Citadel worm hole tax
Vol Arm'OOO Bagel and Lox 803	Posted - 2016.04.13 20:54:38 - [1517] - Quote Anize Oramara wrote: The salt is real. It's funny though because after having read mos tof the complaints, absolutely none of them hold any water in the current implementation of Eve. Allow me to explain. You have Joe, he has an alt account that he PLEXes. This account has 3 characters, two of them are Cyno Alts or Trading alts or [instert usefull alt here] so Joe is getting worth out of his PLEX. The 3rd character is not in fact used for anything other than gaining SP, extracting the SP and selling the injectors for isk. He more or less manages to fund this account by doing that. This SP also, by the way, 'appears out of thin air' more or less, requiring a plex to generate them. Now you have Bob. Bob runs incursions/missions/null rats/[inster isk making activity here]. He uses that ISK that he grinds by spending time in game to buy Joe's skill injectors. Now explain to me how SP that is being generated out of thin air (Requiring a Plex) and then being traded for isk is different to SP that is generated by killing an NPC ever 22h (requiring a paid account) are different form each other? Even if you switch out the SP reward form the dailies to ISK, how is it any different to buy SP (farmed with an SP alt) with that isk? It's not. See, with SP extractors and injectors you can justify this feature. Those who advocate(d) for, or were indifferent to, Injectors but are now kicking up against daily SP opportunities unfortunately don't have any ground to stand on. It's that slippery slope people were talking about back when SP injectors were first talked about. That said, I'm happy to sit back and see if this will grow eve, kill it, change the playerbase/demographic forever or have no real effect whatsoever. I just don't have any investment in the outcome at all and will happily enjoy the ride. You clearly dont understand how injectors/extractors work. First off - no sp is being made out of thin air - someone has to train it. Second, extractors are not 100% efficient meaning that you lose sp everytime you use one. Thus injectors/extractors are a sp sink - which is sorely needed, due to the aging population of eve. On the other hand, dallies are a faucet - they just add sp to the game - which is a poor idea for anything other then newbees. Maybe newbees need a way to speed up training, but no one else does. Now if you are complaining about people farming alts for sp - well so what? People already farmed alts to sell on the bazaar - its all one in the same because it is sp that is generated by real players - not some magic waving of the ccp fairy wand. I don't play, I just fourm warrior.
sero Hita Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 149	Posted - 2016.04.13 20:56:43 - [1518] - Quote Tippia wrote: And by reducing your day from 24 hours to 18, you are losing something: time. You are being punished for your non-conformance by losing time. It's not a very difficult concept to grasp, and it is not very difficult to see how they could easily get the result they want without this submoronic strategy GÇö all they have to do is accept that they mad a bad decision, change their mind, and reverse the error they made. GÇªand that's before we even get creative and suggest they do some actual development work. That is an incorrect claim. You are not loosing time, not in the literal sense. So that is a weird and wrong way to spin it. What is happening is you are not getting a bonus. Does it theoretically lead to the same effect as loosing time would, sure. But you are not loosing time... So stop saying it. It is factually wrong, our days are not getting shorter. What you want to say is that you are missing a bonus, equivalent to 6 hours reduction in training time pr day. that would be correct, loosing time not. Is it a punishment, to miss the bonus? Well, for something to be an punishment, the affected person would have to feel punished. So it would differ from individual to individual, if the extra SP are important for them or not. Just because it is a punishment for you loose SP, it does not mean those of us anyway are training at suboptimal SP/hour with most of the skils we need trained, care and perceive it as punishment. It is just like when you claim there is no such thing as a SP gap. Ofc. there is, it is even measurable in EFT, what a lack of SP means in DPS, tank and fitting ability. Does the SP gap have any pracical effect in game? no, you can compensate by being clever. But there still is a gap. Tippia wrote: all they have to do is accept that they mad a bad decision, change their mind, and reverse the error they made. You are basing this on the assumption that you are objectively right, and that CCP agrees that this is a bad move. They clearly do not though based on the title of this post. So my point from my former post still stands: You will not get anything from demanding a roll back and calling them stupid... That is not how the human psyke works. They already decided that they think this is a good idea. Why would they listen to someone saying " throw it all away, because I say so"? You should also not forget, that you have been against most of the changes made in the last years, from freigther changes to SP trading. things that not turn out as bad as predicted. You have put yourself in a position, where nobody with anything to say will listen to you, like most of the EVE player base. have you noticed how they don't really ask the players anymore (see this thread)? It is due to people demanding rollbacks of everything from new ui to new maps etc. Nobody likes to be told to throw something away they think is a good idea on the basis of some random internet peoples opinion. What they want is constructive changes to the idea, so it would work better. Discarding the idea is not constructive. No matter how many hyperbole examples with hamers and bearing walls you can come up with. The truth is no one really knows if it will be good or bad (I know, I know.... the mighty Tippia knows everything), but for the rest of us only time will tell. "I'm all for pvp, don't get me wrong. I've ganked in Empire, blobed in low sec. Got T-shirts from every which-where.. But to be forced into a pvp confrontation that I didn't want is wrong ccp." RealFlisker
Lugh Crow-Slave 2066	Posted - 2016.04.13 21:06:20 - [1519] - Quote sero Hita wrote: Tippia wrote: And by reducing your day from 24 hours to 18, you are losing something: time. You are being punished for your non-conformance by losing time. It's not a very difficult concept to grasp, and it is not very difficult to see how they could easily get the result they want without this submoronic strategy GÇö all they have to do is accept that they mad a bad decision, change their mind, and reverse the error they made. GÇªand that's before we even get creative and suggest they do some actual development work. That is an incorrect claim. You are not loosing time, not in the literal sense. So that is a weird and wrong way to spin it. What is happening is you are not getting a bonus. Does it theoretically lead to the same effect as loosing time would, sure. well its a good thing effect is a hell of a lot more important than semantics Citadel worm hole tax
Rex Usurious Indulgent Enterprises 0	Posted - 2016.04.13 21:06:57 - [1520] - Quote If the point is to get people to log in, just give the sp for logging in for more than 5 minutes or 10 minutes. Why should I have to find an npc to kill? That makes this a chore like most other 'daily' mmo 'content' rather than an incentive to log in.
Jeremiah Saken The Fall of Leviathan 554	Posted - 2016.04.13 21:09:28 - [1521] - Quote Huckomi G'Noo wrote: ....and now you will be able to get extra SP in that 24 hour subbed period - All you have to do is log in and jump through a hoop for those extra SP Maybe later you will get less SP per day and the only way to get more is to jump though some more hoops Eventually you may have no SP for being subbed for that 24 hours period but no problem as you will have lots and lots of Hoops to jump through to get your Skill Points .... unless you buy boosts to make the hoops give you more SP ....and welcome to WOW This. It's CCP modus operandi with ship and modules balancing. "(...) I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas (...)" "Here in the garden of the arcane delights dark shadows overwhelm us and and we become blind..."
Ravcharas Infinite Point Violence of Action. 484	Posted - 2016.04.13 21:16:17 - [1522] - Quote sero Hita wrote: Nobody likes to be told to throw something away they think is a good idea on the basis of some random internet peoples opinion. What they want is constructive changes to the idea, so it would work better. Discarding the idea is not constructive. Not all ideas are constructive either, and not all ideas deserve to be negotiated around. Some things just don't have reasonable a middle-ground. "Hey, I've been thinking about setting our car on fire" "I'd rather you didn't, to be perfectly frank." "How about just the back seat?" "While certainly a less frightening prospect, that would not be a very good idea either." "Aw come on man, meet me half way and come up with a decent counter-proposal or I'm arranging something pyrotechnical in the glove compartment." "I'm calling the police." I'm not saying this feature is the equivalent of setting a car on fire. For one thing it can be turned off if whatever metrics they intend to use don't tick upwards at a satisfactory rate. (Although I'm afraid that's not what would happen, instead CCP would reach the conclusion that the solution to this pesky screw problem is to use an even larger hammer.)
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 2750	Posted - 2016.04.13 21:19:23 - [1523] - Quote Tippia wrote: Frostys Virpio wrote: Nope. You get 25 24 hours or training for having an active queu for 24 hours with a skill in there and you will still get 24 hours of SP for having a queu active for those 24 hours with a skill there. No. Again: you train for 24 hours. This is not the same thing as getting 24h worth of training. With this change, your training for 24h will only get you 18GÇô28h worth of training. To get the full 24 hours worth, you have to obey. If you don't, you get punished. Quote: I will get all the SP I qualify for and not receive those I don't qualify for. In other words, by not conforming to CCP's demands on when and how to play, you are being punished by having your daily allotment of SP reduced to only 18GÇô20 hours worth, as opposed to the full 24 hours. You lose time. Quote: It's stupid but it's the only way that stupid feature will get them what they want. GÇªexcept that they have already explicitly confirmed that it is not. It's stupid because CCP stupidly refuses to accept and admit that they did something stupid, so instead they double down and hope GÇö stupidly GÇö that one stupidity will cancel the other out. This, of course, is even more stupid than either stupidity in isolation, but that's CCP for you: better to be stupid at a geometric rate than to change your mind and admit fault. No. You still get 24 hours worth of training if you do it or not because the SP you get is X/hours based on your stats and the stats needed for the skill. You get exactly 24 hours worth of SP a X SP/hours where X is the ratio generated by the 2 stats require for the skill. This will still be the case unless they change the training system. You will get exactly just a many SP from the passive training. If you choose to go with the opportunity, you CAN get an extra as long as you fulfill the different list of requirement for it. If you don't do it, then it's like not having a skill in queue, you get nothing because you don't deserve it since you didn't fulfill the requirement. It's entirely on you to try or not to fulfill them. You read what I said wrong or something. What I said is that the only way they will get log-ins out of THAT feature (the opportunity feature, not any other feature in the game) is to make the task really simple. The harder they make it, the less people will do it. Reversing the skillqueu change would indeed more than likely recover them the lost log-ins but this is not what I was talking about. I was talking about the opportunity feature. It's a bit. People will take it hook, line and sinker. We know that, CCP knows that and that's the exact idea. They want opportunity to generate log-ins. They don't want the skillqueue to generate log-ins so backtracking the queue change is not their preferred solution. It's a cake inside the barb-wired cage. Accept to do something you don't really want to and you'll get cake! The BEST way to "each" CCP to not do this again would be to not take care of it. Not log any single time more than you usually do. No one taking the bait unless they really would of played. Keeping the amount of content as it was almost always and just taking this when you happen to pass by a rat in your normal activity. If nobody ran for it, CCP would have to do something else because they would see no gain into it. The issue, is, the complete lack of self control of the player base to teach CCP a lesson. The carrot is too good for the playerbase to show them they don't want dailies. They rather do them and ***** about them than just flat out not doing them as a message that it is a stupid idea and it won't get what they hope from it. Anyone selling a product will play on that and CCP is no different. They will offer us what we want under their condition. We literally don't have to do it but they know that deep down, many will break down and do it. The very reason why boycott don't work isn't because the idea is wrong at it's core. It does not work because people can't follow them. If CCP stop making money because the playerbase had enough, change would come because they can't afford to no sell subs/PLEX but people would rather cry and whine on the forum and reddit while making sure all their account are subbed/plexed because guess what? It gives them SP. The majority of the player base is probably against daily (the silent one have not put their word in yet so I can't say for sure...) but I'd be willing to bet a PLEX that many of the people currently posting here about how dailies sucks will run them as close to the 22 hours mark as possible because they can talk but won't act. The playerbase of the "HTFU" game is weak minded and easily tricked with a small cake.
Aydan Talvanen Bros Before Holes The Devils' Rejects 24	Posted - 2016.04.13 21:22:39 - [1524] - Quote DAILY BURN JITA
Xe'Dola'Kahn A Big Enough Lever 0	Posted - 2016.04.13 21:23:32 - [1525] - Quote CCP Rise wrote: Another small update: Thanks to feedback we see that it would improve the experience quite a lot minimize the amount of characters available for this reward so we are going to limit the reward to the first character completing the daily task on each account. Thanks This is a big improvement (for reasons I can't quite define - ?farming the feature?), I still think you should be able to get the reward for popping a rock or hacking a can and regarding your comments about logging in to shoot your alt - how is that less interesting than shooting a belt rat in HS? - you still achieve your log in, and better yet - when you blow your alt up (assuming pod-kills don't count unless there're implants inside and rookie ship kills don't count unless there's non-civ modules fitted), you're feeding the economy by explosions creating demand for ships/modules (and ammo, unless the killer's amarrian.)
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 2750	Posted - 2016.04.13 21:24:17 - [1526] - Quote Ravcharas wrote: I'm not saying this feature is the equivalent of setting a car on fire. For one thing it can be turned off if whatever metrics they intend to use don't tick upwards at a satisfactory rate. (Although I'm afraid that's not what would happen, instead CCP would reach the conclusion that the solution to this pesky screw problem is to use an even larger hammer.) They will see an uptick in log-ins. If this will lead to content or not is to be determined when it's live. I think it will do just out of the raw possibility. It will be more people in space for some time no matter how limited it is so it will at some point lead to something. That does not make it a good idea. It's still bad and something entirely different should be put forward to make people want to log in more often if they want people to log in more often.
Terhiss Sanctuary of Shadows Triumvirate. 168	Posted - 2016.04.13 21:26:41 - [1527] - Quote Hear me out for a second - This can potentially inject 20% addtional SP in the total pool of the game. - Which means veterans that are no longer interested in the added SP can finance themselves by converting the extra SP to isk. - Easy to agree on so far. The next step to do that is to buy a Skill extractor. - This means the demand for extractors goes up. - That means prices of extractors go up. - That goes up until the price of the extractor eats up all your profit from selling the injector. And injector prices are likely to go down due to the extra supply now on the market. -At this point its no longer profitable in any way to buy the extractors with isk. But..... you can buy them with REAL money on the cash shop.... :) The house wins again. That's why they're doing it. To increase injector prices so that it becomes more profitable to buy them with real cash. I might be completely off but its one likely scenario. I'm 100% certain their "Chief space-economist" has drooled extensively on his wet-dream-charts and sexy-economical-curves. Please read and give me your thoughts
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 2750	Posted - 2016.04.13 21:26:54 - [1528] - Quote Xe'Dola'Kahn wrote: CCP Rise wrote: Another small update: Thanks to feedback we see that it would improve the experience quite a lot minimize the amount of characters available for this reward so we are going to limit the reward to the first character completing the daily task on each account. Thanks This is a big improvement (for reasons I can't quite define - ?farming the feature?), I still think you should be able to get the reward for popping a rock or hacking a can and regarding your comments about logging in to shoot your alt - how is that less interesting than shooting a belt rat in HS? - you still achieve your log in, and better yet - when you blow your alt up (assuming pod-kills don't count unless there're implants inside), you're feeding the economy by explosions creating demand (and ammo, unless the killer's amarrian.) You could shoot a rookie ship and get a kill. It's also kinda bad because it mean getting a second account is even more optimal then it already is right now since it's much easier to shoot your own alts than to shoot anyone else. Even if you refuse rookie ship kills, you have 2 slot to recycle alts so they get beginner mission which reward free ship up to a destroyer so you can still do it for free as long as you are dedicated enough. It's the EVE playerbase so people will be dedicated enough.
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 2750	Posted - 2016.04.13 21:28:20 - [1529] - Quote Terhiss wrote: Hear me out for a second - This can potentially inject 20% addtional SP in the total pool of the game. - Which means veterans that are no longer interested in the added SP can finance themselves by converting the extra SP to isk. - Easy to agree on so far. The next step to do that is to buy a Skill extractor. - This means the demand for extractors goes up. - That means prices of extractors go up. - That goes up until the price of the extractor eats up all your profit from selling the injector. And injector prices are likely to go down due to the extra supply now on the market. -At this point its no longer profitable in any way to buy the extractors with isk. But..... you can buy them with REAL money on the cash shop.... :) The house wins again. That's why they're doing it. To increase injector prices so that it becomes more profitable to buy them with real cash. I might be completely off but its one likely scenario. I'm 100% certain their "Chief space-economist" has drooled extensively on his wet-dream-charts and sexy-economical-curves. Please read and give me your thoughts That is of course a reason why it's SP and not aurum for example.
Xe'Dola'Kahn A Big Enough Lever 0	Posted - 2016.04.13 21:28:35 - [1530] - Quote Seperate comment from my previous... Rise: you have not made it clear whether these points will go towards the current training queue by default (assuming a queue is active) or if they are default free SP (available to allocate to FOTM ships/skills off plan)
Aydan Talvanen Bros Before Holes The Devils' Rejects 24	Posted - 2016.04.13 21:36:38 - [1531] - Quote Xe'Dola'Kahn wrote: Seperate comment from my previous... Rise: you have not made it clear whether these points will go towards the current training queue by default (assuming a queue is active) or if they are default free SP (available to allocate to FOTM ships/skills off plan) Here is your answer http://imgur.com/a/077WO
Eonan Dmalum Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde 0	Posted - 2016.04.13 21:40:35 - [1532] - Quote Honestly I am a big fan of this. You're able to help the new-bro's progress out of Frigates and into Dessies/Cruisers quicker which will help retention. Additionally, you're limiting it enough that it will have little impact on the time required to progress through BC/BS/Caps while encouraging people to go out into the belts and rat/mine/do excursions once a day, thus granting PVPers more targets to shoot at. Good job.
elitatwo Eve Minions The-Company 1152	Posted - 2016.04.13 21:40:42 - [1533] - Quote Xe'Dola'Kahn wrote: Seperate comment from my previous... Rise: you have not made it clear whether these points will go towards the current training queue by default (assuming a queue is active) or if they are default free SP (available to allocate to FOTM ships/skills off plan) It's unallocated points for shooting a frigate in an asteroid belt. And it made it to SiSi already Can I get 50 million for completing a level 4 then? Eve Minions is recruiting. Learn from about pvp, learn about ships and how to fly them correctly. Small gang and solo action in high, low and nullsec and w-space alike. We will teach you everything you need and want to know.
Aydan Talvanen Bros Before Holes The Devils' Rejects 25	Posted - 2016.04.13 21:46:09 - [1534] - Quote Eonan Dmalum wrote: Honestly I am a big fan of this. You're able to help the new-bro's progress out of Frigates and into Dessies/Cruisers quicker which will help retention. Additionally, you're limiting it enough that it will have little impact on the time required to progress through BC/BS/Caps while encouraging people to go out into the belts and rat/mine/do excursions once a day, thus granting PVPers more targets to shoot at. Good job. Retention, retention, retention. Will I get 100k for completing a level 4 mission too? Or 0.1 per m3 of ore mined? It will help with the retention, right? You guys are just like a broken record.
Cara Forelli Meticulously Indifferent 1763	Posted - 2016.04.13 21:51:34 - [1535] - Quote CCP Rise wrote: Small sidenote on activities: many of you mentioned PVP, remember that this is always problematic because the most effective way to PVP for rewards is just kill your own alt, which isn't very fun or interesting. And shooting a red not cross is? That really should tell you something about the quality of this idea. Why is a mechanic intended to promote player interaction inherently tied to an activity which doesn't involve other players? You know what DID promote player interaction? Watchlist. Adventures New player with questions? Join my public channel in game: *House Forelli* Titan's Lament
McBorsk Multispace Technologies Inc Yulai Federation 61	Posted - 2016.04.13 22:02:00 - [1536] - Quote Have a little respect for your creation, CCP.
Imigo Montoya Delusions of Adequacy Get Off My Lawn 121	Posted - 2016.04.13 22:08:26 - [1537] - Quote Recently I unsubbed for a while because I was finding myself not really doing much in the game any more. There wasn't a lot of activity going on and I had other things to do so I stopped my subscription. Then this war happened, and I resubbed all three accounts. Wars make for content. Wars entice me to log in and do stuff. Daily rewards make me want to vomit. I used to work on designing daily reward systems for Facebook games and one of the key principles I learned was that you need to pick the right tool for the job. If you want to have a system that you intend to boost retention (the usual purpose of a daily reward system), then you need to make sure that system is engaging players with the core appeal of the game. It could very easily be that you're creating rewards that attract people who aren't interested in your core game, and that discourage people who are interested in your core game. One of the games I worked on was Jane Austen's Rogues and Romance (later rebranded as Jane Austen Unbound). It was a hidden object game and had a decidedly casual audience, but we found that the main appeal was the manor customisation aspect. Our players loved decorating their doll's house. When we made our daily rewards system, this understanding drove our design. We ensured that what players got from daily rewards was something that they wanted to get, but more importantly we made sure that getting the daily reward wasn't a chore - simply logging in and clicking the "OK" button on the daily rewards screen was enough (low friction for the casual audience). EVE Online's core appeal is not shooting NPCs, it is being a part of a player-driven emergent sandbox where everything that happens is unscripted and happens because some player made it happen. That core is a human conflict simulator which is wrapped in a player-driven economy based on the construction and destruction of spaceships, with a wide variety of activities which players can engage in to participate in that economy. Harvesting, trading, shipping, exploring, and fighting are all ways that players can have meaningful interactions in the virtual world. If you're going to have daily rewards, don't force people to do something that doesn't appeal to them. This feature as it stands is attractive to new players, but the new players that it is particularly attractive to aren't necessarily the kinds of players who would appreciate the harsh beauty of EVE Online's core. It's more of an instant gratification mechanic and anybody who wants and expects instant gratification in EVE is going to find that when they start interacting with other players who DGAF about their expectations they're going to have an unpleasant experience. CCP should be setting the right expectations, not the wrong ones. When did HTFU become "thanks for logging in, have a cookie"?
Moac Tor Cyber Core Stain Confederation 495	Posted - 2016.04.13 22:18:30 - [1538] - Quote This feature would be much better if it worked like this: 1. You can build up to 3 hours worth of enhanced training which accrues over 7 days. 2. Enhanced training boosts your training by 20k SP per hour for a maximum of 60k SP per week. 3. The only requirement to take advantage of the enhanced training is to be logged onto eve. The above would reward players for logging on for at least 3 hours a week which is sustainable for most casual players, and would also perhaps lead to the desired increase in activity as once your online you get talking with friends etc in the chat channels. The most important thing is that it would not dictate to the player that they must partake in some mindless task. (Edit - the excellent post above would backup this type system which is a coincidence as it was posted whilst I was in the middle of typing out this suggestion) Modulated ECM Effects An Alternative to Skill Trading
Estilad Grenrum Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2	Posted - 2016.04.13 22:20:20 - [1539] - Quote First time posting on the forum since this is the first time I've seen something I felt strongly enough about to write out a response. Dalies are horrible. There's no denying it, they are a chore that makes you feel like logging in every day is something you are almost forced to do if you want to keep up. A new player may see it as "oh boy I can get free sp every day" but anyone with a reasonable amount of sp will see it as a daily grind they have to do with each of their characters. Feeling forced to start up a game every day, especially many times with each alt, is a way to get burned out quickly, and the fact that if you don't you miss out on something that the only other real way to earn it is to just wait is going to lead to a lot of people getting disinterested with the game. It's one thing to offer the opportunity to new players for them to earn sp for the first month or something, but making old players feel like they need to go login 6 times like I do to get the full benefit every day or get left behind is just going to lead to people becoming disinterested. It wouldnt even be that bad if it was say 2k sp each day since that would still give you the option of cutting an hour off training time but wouldn't be too much of a big deal to miss, but with 10k that's enough that you feel obligated to get it, if not for the free sp then for the extractor you can sell every month or two with this sp. And that brings me to another point, the fact that skill extractors/injectors were supposed to represent skills that people had put time into training, like sp has always been, but with this change they will also represent grinding at a painfully slow rate that you can't afford to miss out on. This change seems like it will just lead to people getting frustrated, even the new players since they will feel forced to login, not understanding how much or little 10k sp is worth, just seeing it as free skills and will just lead to burnout. I want to offer a change at least since my criticism was kind of open ended. Logging into eve to get like 5k skill points per account per day I'd be ok with as a daily. But making some system where you need to hunt down a rat on each of your characters every day just seems stupid and like the type of painfully boring repetitive activity that originally drove me from other games to eve.
Sgt Ocker Kenshin. DARKNESS. 903	Posted - 2016.04.13 22:53:25 - [1540] - Quote Moac Tor wrote: This feature would be much better if it worked like this: 1. You can build up to 3 hours worth of enhanced training which accrues over 7 days. 2. Enhanced training boosts your training by 20k SP per hour for a maximum of 60k SP per week. 3. The only requirement to take advantage of the enhanced training is to be logged onto eve. The above would reward players for logging on for at least 3 hours a week which is sustainable for most casual players, and would also perhaps lead to the desired increase in activity as once your online you get talking with friends etc in the chat channels. The most important thing is that it would not dictate to the player that they must partake in some mindless task. Over 2,000 players at a time in Jita adding nothing but spam and scam to the game - Get to train for free? Seriously, you have got to be kidding. As for mindless tasks - Killing things, all sort of things is what Eve is about. It is because killing some things is so totally unrewarding (in either reward or challenge or both), we have thousands of players logged in who never undock. I think the best way to make opportunities like this worth while, they should be restricted to low and nulsec space. Everyone has relatively easy access to these parts of space and it adds a risk vs reward concept to it. My opinions are mine. If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
K'racker Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 1	Posted - 2016.04.13 23:00:45 - [1541] - Quote Tippia wrote: Frostys Virpio wrote: Last time I checked, my time is completely independant from CCP changes. That's because this change hasn't gone through yet. Quote: I still live 24 hours each day. What CCP is giving you is SP. GÇªand those SP are accumulated over time. In one day, you get 24h worth of them at the moment. With this idea, non-conformance means you only get 18GÇô20h of them as punishment. Quote: You will still get your 24 hours of training No. You still train 24 hours per day. But those 24 hours will only be worth 18GÇô20 GÇö that's all you get in a day unless you comply. Daily. If you want to get the full 24h, you have to do what CCP wants you to do, when they want you to do it, rather than what you'd actually want to do when you want to do it. i think you've got it backwards ; choosing to do this activity makes a 24 hr. day worth 28 - 30 hrs. does choosing not to use a skill injector make your 24 hr. day worth ~ negative 14 days ?
Moac Tor Cyber Core Stain Confederation 495	Posted - 2016.04.13 23:03:39 - [1542] - Quote Sgt Ocker wrote: Moac Tor wrote: This feature would be much better if it worked like this: 1. You can build up to 3 hours worth of enhanced training which accrues over 7 days. 2. Enhanced training boosts your training by 20k SP per hour for a maximum of 60k SP per week. 3. The only requirement to take advantage of the enhanced training is to be logged onto eve. The above would reward players for logging on for at least 3 hours a week which is sustainable for most casual players, and would also perhaps lead to the desired increase in activity as once your online you get talking with friends etc in the chat channels. The most important thing is that it would not dictate to the player that they must partake in some mindless task. Over 2,000 players at a time in Jita adding nothing but spam and scam to the game - Get to train for free? Seriously, you have got to be kidding. A high PC count is what CCP is trying to achieve with this proposal. You cannot then complain that the proposal means too many players are logging on in Jita. Sgt Ocker wrote: As for mindless tasks - Killing things, all sort of things is what Eve is about. No it is not. The point is you let the players decide what they want to do. If they want to scam in Jita then why should be forced to kill rats. Sgt Ocker wrote: I think the best way to make opportunities like this worth while, they should be restricted to low and nulsec space. Everyone has relatively easy access to these parts of space and it adds a risk vs reward concept to it. The best thing would be to simply scrap the idea altogether, but CCP want a higher PC. Modulated ECM Effects An Alternative to Skill Trading
Lugh Crow-Slave 2068	Posted - 2016.04.13 23:07:38 - [1543] - Quote Guys dailies may not be what we should be most worried about. I was thinking why they picked 22 and not just used an easier system. Well this could be used to make things like hourlies getting players to not just do something real fast and log out or go about there day but make sure they need to keep doing the task ima need a double layer of foil for my hat Citadel worm hole tax
Rex Usurious Indulgent Enterprises 1	Posted - 2016.04.13 23:10:09 - [1544] - Quote Actually after some careful consideration, I support this system. I will quit my wh corp for all my accounts and sit them in a hisec system with lots of belts so I can maximize my efficiency at logging in, getting my xp and moving to the next alt. This is the intended gameplay effect right? Boosting daily log ins? /s
Bodb Derg New Eden Scallywags Zero.Four Ops 24	Posted - 2016.04.13 23:10:16 - [1545] - Quote So I pay to train my alts SP up since 2008 and now you're giving away a few thousand SP per rat kill? Thanks CCP. I was hoping this was a joke. Terrible terrible terrible idea. Hi. I'm Bodb Derg. I'm salty about links.
Lugh Crow-Slave 2068	Posted - 2016.04.13 23:14:42 - [1546] - Quote Bodb Derg wrote: So I pay to train my alts SP up since 2008 and now you're giving away a few thousand SP per rat kill? Thanks CCP. I was hoping this was a joke. Terrible terrible terrible idea. you may not find it funny but ccp will be laughing all the way to the bank Citadel worm hole tax
Bodb Derg New Eden Scallywags Zero.Four Ops 27	Posted - 2016.04.13 23:46:46 - [1547] - Quote Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Bodb Derg wrote: So I pay to train my alts SP up since 2008 and now you're giving away a few thousand SP per rat kill? Thanks CCP. I was hoping this was a joke. Terrible terrible terrible idea. you may not find it funny but ccp will be laughing all the way to the bank True indeed. Hi. I'm Bodb Derg. I'm salty about links.
Barco Gray Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 0	Posted - 2016.04.13 23:59:12 - [1548] - Quote I don't think this is a good idea, and apparently many others don't either. Random thoughts: Re: the argument "you don't have to do them," well, no, but given the competitive nature of players, they will feel obligated to do them, and stress out when they fail to keep up. The real-time based acquisition of skill points is one of the defining features of EVE, and the proposed dailies-for-skill-points undermines this. Same reason I don't really like the skill injectors, which at least I can ignore. I suspect that some manager at CCP has looked at EVE, looked at other (more popular) MMOs, and said "What do they have have that we don't?" and is insisting on this. This would explain why the feature is being implemented in a manner identical to the first announcement, in spite of all the negative feedback. Next time don't bother to ask for players' opinions if they are just going to be ignored, you just **** off everybody twice as much. Personally, I often take several days off between logging, knowing that my skill points are advancing more or less like everybody else in the game. Now they won't, and the sense of falling behind will eventually frustrate me and I will quit. I guess a casual player like myself is not part of the target market any longer? Maybe I never was.
Arya Regnar Darwins Right Hand 971	Posted - 2016.04.14 00:03:45 - [1549] - Quote Barco Gray wrote: I don't think this is a good idea, and apparently many others don't either. Random thoughts: Re: the argument "you don't have to do them," well, no, but given the competitive nature of players, they will feel obligated to do them, and stress out when they fail to keep up. The real-time based acquisition of skill points is one of the defining features of EVE, and the proposed dailies-for-skill-points undermines this. Same reason I don't really like the skill injectors, which at least I can ignore. I suspect that some manager at CCP has looked at EVE, looked at other (more popular) MMOs, and said "What do they have have that we don't?" and is insisting on this. This would explain why the feature is being implemented in a manner identical to the first announcement, in spite of all the negative feedback. Next time don't bother to ask for players' opinions if they are just going to be ignored, you just **** off everybody twice as much. Personally, I often take several days off between logging, knowing that my skill points are advancing more or less like everybody else in the game. Now they won't, and the sense of falling behind will eventually frustrate me and I will quit. I guess a casual player like myself is not part of the target market any longer? Maybe I never was. Yeah, people will actually quit over this, I'm not sure CCP realize this. EvE-Mail me if you need anything.
Shallanna Yassavi Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 132	Posted - 2016.04.14 00:29:49 - [1550] - Quote Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Bodb Derg wrote: So I pay to train my alts SP up since 2008 and now you're giving away a few thousand SP per rat kill? Thanks CCP. I was hoping this was a joke. Terrible terrible terrible idea. you may not find it funny but ccp will be laughing all the way to the bank And short on free advertising from news stories, because the people who know better tend to be the ones who make game life interesting enough to mention on the evening news occasionally. A signature :o
Shallanna Yassavi Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 132	Posted - 2016.04.14 00:34:22 - [1551] - Quote Barco Gray wrote: I don't think this is a good idea, and apparently many others don't either. Random thoughts: Re: the argument "you don't have to do them," well, no, but given the competitive nature of players, they will feel obligated to do them, and stress out when they fail to keep up. The real-time based acquisition of skill points is one of the defining features of EVE, and the proposed dailies-for-skill-points undermines this. Same reason I don't really like the skill injectors, which at least I can ignore. I suspect that some manager at CCP has looked at EVE, looked at other (more popular) MMOs, and said "What do they have have that we don't?" and is insisting on this. This would explain why the feature is being implemented in a manner identical to the first announcement, in spite of all the negative feedback. Next time don't bother to ask for players' opinions if they are just going to be ignored, you just **** off everybody twice as much. Personally, I often take several days off between logging, knowing that my skill points are advancing more or less like everybody else in the game. Now they won't, and the sense of falling behind will eventually frustrate me and I will quit. I guess a casual player like myself is not part of the target market any longer? Maybe I never was. A manager? Does anyone live in Iceland and know how to play golf? Or what is the stupid "time-honored" ritual out there? A signature :o
Kieron VonDeux 154	Posted - 2016.04.14 00:37:24 - [1552] - Quote Arya Regnar wrote: Yeah, people will actually quit over this, I'm not sure CCP realize this. It will take the release of a similar game to get a serous outflow from this game. I hear Star Citizen may not be too far off.
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 2751	Posted - 2016.04.14 00:49:56 - [1553] - Quote Arya Regnar wrote: Yeah, people will actually quit over this, I'm not sure CCP realize this. It's sad that the player base has some people with a large problem of self control but people burning out on optional content is hilarious.
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 2751	Posted - 2016.04.14 00:54:55 - [1554] - Quote Barco Gray wrote: I don't think this is a good idea, and apparently many others don't either. Random thoughts: Re: the argument "you don't have to do them," well, no, but given the competitive nature of players, they will feel obligated to do them, and stress out when they fail to keep up. The real-time based acquisition of skill points is one of the defining features of EVE, and the proposed dailies-for-skill-points undermines this. Same reason I don't really like the skill injectors, which at least I can ignore. I suspect that some manager at CCP has looked at EVE, looked at other (more popular) MMOs, and said "What do they have have that we don't?" and is insisting on this. This would explain why the feature is being implemented in a manner identical to the first announcement, in spite of all the negative feedback. Next time don't bother to ask for players' opinions if they are just going to be ignored, you just **** off everybody twice as much. Personally, I often take several days off between logging, knowing that my skill points are advancing more or less like everybody else in the game. Now they won't, and the sense of falling behind will eventually frustrate me and I will quit. I guess a casual player like myself is not part of the target market any longer? Maybe I never was. You can ignore injection of 500k SP into a character with no daily limit be can't ignore a 10k one with a daily limit?
Mayharm EVE University Ivy League 7	Posted - 2016.04.14 00:55:17 - [1555] - Quote IN A PLAYER DRIVEN FUTURE - CEO EDITION [11:15] Day 1 after the patch where completing corporation contracts achieved the daily requirement is introduced and the servers have just come online. Your corp has 200 members who you know will all want their daily reward. You're a "mixed bag" nullsec corp that does both pvp and pve content, including some industry. Up till now you generally had about 50 corp contracts at any one time for your SRP and a few other incentive programs. Now you'll need to come up with 150 extra contracts at least and you're really worried this will end up consuming your game time, but you realize you have to create those extra contracts or your "employees" will lynch you for denying them the daily reward. [12:30] After some considerable time spent stressing about this you're still no closer to coming up with ideas, you're really tempted to have them all just ask for the contract fee in exchange. But the idea is too depressing and you recall the story of CEO Grindar... all those assets he lost, including some of those tasty new citadels... wait, citadels...that gives you an idea. Due to a certain.... lack of enthusiasm in the corp, you and just a few others have ended up taking responsibility for refueling the corp's citadels. You just couldn't consistently keep up their enthusiasm for mining the nearby ice belt to fuel the citadels. When it got to the point that you were just buying the fuel, you gave up trying to get them to do it as a group. You and a hardcore group have kept at it, but it's getting to "burnout" levels... Your corp has 4 citadels in the pocket you call home, each using the 3 modules market, clone and reprocessing at just under 1000 fuel blocks per day.. You figure the costs and reckon 200 fuel blocks without payment seems about the right level of effort vs reward, at least to start with, you can always change the numbers tomorrow. That's 20 contracts and you can even have them deliver the fuel right to the citadels. At this point you no longer care if your employees mine/produce the ice themselves, buy it or even steal it. You'll just be glad to get rid of the chore with less than ten minutes worth of effort every day. [12:40] So... maybe this new feature can work, but still, coming up with just that first idea was bloody hard, you're not looking forward to it taking you all day to figure this out...you wonder if other CEOs are having the same problem and what they plan to do so you check the forum for ideas. Funnily enough you find a good one for you 5 pages into a thread on that topic, create "suggestion box" contracts (cargo containers can have 80 character names, short enough to force each suggestion to be succinct/simple). Hell, for today you'll probably get 130 crappy ideas, but you figure out that, again, this is an opportunity to delegate your workload that costs you relatively little effort. Mind you, now you need to put a supply of cheap cargo containers in the corp hangars... [11:15] Day 2 Yeah...maybe that wasn't such a great idea, 130 was too much for a start, but lesson learned. The case where the one person who'd been allowed 2 alts in the corp had sent the same suggestion 3 times... at least the one where you ended up reading dirty limericks showed he put some effort in. Funnily enough, the very last suggestion of the day, indeed the last contract to be completed, was a very good one. As the lone player from the APJ region they'll almost always be the last person to complete whatever contract nobody else had felt like doing, which they pointed out didn't seem fair. So setting up all the contracts at once, also a bad idea, which is kind of a relief, you'll have to get someone else to take responsibility for later in the day as you log-off fairly early in the evening most days. So now you realize you're being "forced" to delegate the work that's so far ended up being used to delegate the work...amusing :) [11:45] After talking about it with the rest of the corp management you split the contracts into the following: -20 Fuel contracts -10 "Suggestion Boxes" -30 Ammunition to restock the Free ammo hangar. Previously you just used corp funds to buy a bunch every few weeks, barely even registers as a chore, but now one less thing to think about. -30 contracts requesting various "modest" amounts of minerals, to fund a 5th/backup citadel. -60 contracts to be left "open to negotiation with the corp's officers" [11:15] Day 7 You've been using the new daily system for a few days and after the slightly rocky start things are settling down. The ammunition contracts were really unpopular, you're still not quite sure why. Suggestion box, predictably, is a bit hit and miss, but the dirty limericks have almost become an institution already... Surprisingly, or perhaps not so surprisingly, the fuel and mineral contracts are the most popular. You're even thinking of expanding it to stock spare capitals and the like, it's even got you thinking about sovnull, that which you swore off so many years ago... whatever happens next, you realize the choices you've made appear to have created a bit of a monster. You're not quite sure why, but when some of the more dedicated pvpers said this "gave them an excuse to hunt down industrial/mining ships" it sent a shiver down your spine... PS. I wont bother writing the CEO Grindar edition, clearly no one's interested, not even the forum trolls :( I guess I just have to accept that the fact I would strip my characters of all their SP and donate it to charity if this idea didn't work means I'm crazy.
Ysera Ambramotte Who Armed the Carebears C.L.O.N.E 0	Posted - 2016.04.14 01:04:40 - [1556] - Quote Just to add my two cents, I like the idea but having to log in each day or miss out should change to being able to "bank" maybe two or three days worth of them so if RL happens you don't lose out, so if I miss one day the next day you would be able to complete two of them so over the two days you still complete 2 opportunities but you just completed two of them in the one day. Hope I made sense and didn't just shut out jibberish
Imigo Montoya Delusions of Adequacy Get Off My Lawn 127	Posted - 2016.04.14 01:33:32 - [1557] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: You can ignore injection of 500k SP into a character with no daily limit be can't ignore a 10k one with a daily limit? The difference is that one only transfers existing SP and is a net drain of SP (with losses), and the other is a new source of SP.
Miss 'Assassination' Cayman CK-0FF Violence of Action. 92	Posted - 2016.04.14 02:12:06 - [1558] - Quote Imigo Montoya wrote: Frostys Virpio wrote: You can ignore injection of 500k SP into a character with no daily limit be can't ignore a 10k one with a daily limit? The difference is that one only transfers existing SP and is a net drain of SP (with losses), and the other is a new source of SP. Not to mention one has a very high cost for the SP and the other has an incredibly low cost for the SP. Killing one random NPC is easy enough that 10k SP feels like a huge reward for it, while 150k-500k doesn't feel like a huge gain for 640 mil.
Advenat Bedala Facehoof Out of Sight. 149	Posted - 2016.04.14 02:12:32 - [1559] - Quote If you still want to make it a daily... well You need to have a reward satisfy both conditions: 1) Valuable for everybody 2) Can be ignored without mental discomfort SP reward isn't satisfy 2-d Any reward which give player something valuable cannot satisfy 2-d condition What about reward that will take something valuable? Skillpoints as example. Take some skillpoints and make them unallocated?
Miss 'Assassination' Cayman CK-0FF Violence of Action. 94	Posted - 2016.04.14 02:17:39 - [1560] - Quote Advenat Bedala wrote: If you still want to make it a daily... well You need to have a reward satisfy both conditions: 1) Valuable for everybody 2) Can be ignored without mental discomfort SP reward isn't satisfy 2-d Any reward which give player something valuable cannot satisfy 2-d condition What about reward that will take something valuable? Skillpoints as example. Take some skillpoints and make them unallocated? I still think that's the best possible choice of reward if they insist on doing this. It's helpful for people who are reasonably active and want to try new things or fix past mistakes, while not penalizing those who have a long-term queue running but can't log in every day. I'm 100% against the current plan, but if the reward were changed to allowing us to deallocate 10k-20k SP it would eliminate a lot of my discomfort over it. The key when doing something like this is to make people want to log in without making them feel like they have to. If people start to feel like logging in is a job and they need to do it even when they don't want to, players will start leaving over it.
Stormy Dove Aliastra Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2016.04.14 02:57:11 - [1561] - Quote Horry! Good for me, I am looking forward to this.
Chjna the Goose Flock 36	Posted - 2016.04.14 03:15:21 - [1562] - Quote This thread is filled with comments that points out that other stuff is like: Quote: skill injectors are accepted, and why should this not be? It's like saying that Clamydia can't be bad, as you already have Syphilis. The reason that you did not complain that much about getting Syphilis, is that the guy you got it from was so sexy, that you forgot to think about how this would affect you in the long run. This time around, he is not that good lookin, you are all out of birth control pills, and you know he is infected. Most of all, you really do not want to raise a demanding kid by yourself, even if you would receive child maintenance. Us capsuleers have accepted a lot of changes for the worse and all the time does ccp get it the way they want in the end. Last time when we shoot the monument, what did it acchive? appart from a new model for the monument? -Looking at this new feature, Nothing. Remove T2 BPOs
Starain The Reborn The Gorgon Empire 82	Posted - 2016.04.14 04:21:33 - [1563] - Quote Why only NPC? Why do not add killing any pilots? Of course, there will be some things like "hey my friend, kill pls my ibis", but - as I understand, you do it with only purpose - so your online graphics about logged in users were looks good, so anyway if that will force pilots to login anyhow (for the sake of statistics and (just assumption) trick some director minds in CCP, so they said "good, they still playing in this game, good!" and massmedia, who will look at graphics and think smth like "wow, cool, such much! L-æL) - why not?
Shallanna Yassavi Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 132	Posted - 2016.04.14 04:46:48 - [1564] - Quote Shoot it again anyway. Bring your mining fleets, I know they can fly T1 frigates. A signature :o
Utremi Fasolasi La Dolce Vita 484	Posted - 2016.04.14 05:01:19 - [1565] - Quote This seems like a nice perk for lower SP characters staying active each day. It won't make a huge impact for older characters and that's fine. 10k SP wont really make a difference much when you are already over 100kk.
Lugh Crow-Slave 2077	Posted - 2016.04.14 05:13:20 - [1566] - Quote Utremi Fasolasi wrote: This seems like a nice perk for lower SP characters staying active each day. It won't make a huge impact for older characters and that's fine. 10k SP wont really make a difference much when you are already over 100kk. what are you talking about for older players its 2 injectors a month for younger ones its 1 every 50 days. even if it was good for new players and would have no effect on older ones this is not the way we want to introduce players to the game Citadel worm hole tax
SeVenNight Deng Tai-Chi Northern Coalition. 4	Posted - 2016.04.14 05:23:12 - [1567] - Quote Even though I know CCP might not change anything even they hear the opposite voice from players, but i really want to to address the key thing that why we don't like this idea. This does not encourage people to do you daily 'killing npc' stuff, but it indeed forces people to finish your daily mission, become a burden that make them to login all accounts and spend time on the things they don't like to do. Why? People think if they did not do your daily opportunity, it is a loss for them, it penalizes them. Because: This opportunity is daily, with fixed amount of reward, and it is the reward from CCP, not players. If we do not get the potential gain/opportunity, we take it as a loss. we like blow things up, we like to see battle report, so we know how many isk we/they loss. Because it is the satisfaction from the interactions with players not from CCP offical. Mission is boring, but when i get tired of it, as long as i get the mission offer, i can do it in the next day, it will not changed and i still can claim my "pass rewards", it is not daily. Ratting is even boring, but it is not fixed amount. I rat 5 mins or 1 hours, the rewards are different. So this opportunities is like a 1 mins ratting. undock, warp to belt, fire, dock up. And switching account repeat the task, not opportunity. I cannot imagine when I login 6 accounts and spend time to do this mechanical opportunities. EVE should be all about players interact, not this semi-mandatory Gain/Loss interactions. Finally, If you really want people to login to do more stuffs, focus on the sites like the serpentis site we have before. Make the rat easily to kill, random rewards(ok, you can make a 10000 sp mini injector, and each character can only consume one per 24 hour), and people can do it with pvp fits and encourage to fights. To be honest, you guys should make more efforts to the idea to encourage people, rather use this cheap rewards(Loss) mechanism to penalize/burden people.
MIC Improvise Grey-Wolf Inc. Limited Expectations 3	Posted - 2016.04.14 05:32:22 - [1568] - Quote As a new player, having new ways to get SP and become involved in the game are very important. However, a daily activity hacks away at one of the most unique and attractive parts that EVE has to offer. Having played MMO games off and on for many years, the ability to continue to gain skills even while not logging, and being able to take care of life without the lost opportunity of missing your grind or dungeon group makes this game that much more appealing. Especially for an older and often more intellectual crowd. I played WoW for a brief time before I began playing EVE and can say that you'll definitely see the spike in activity you're looking for. People will log in, undock and kill an npc, or maybe a few, and New Eden will become slightly more active with an increase in activity for approximately 1-2 minutes per day per character; which adds up. It will not last though. If the players of EVE respond similarly to how the players in WoW responded to garrisons in their most recent expansion, the spike in activity will only last for several months. Personally, I stuck with it for about 2 before I came to the conclusion that the time it took to do daily missions/quests/activities/gold earning was better spent doing other things, and gradually led to my departure from the game. This is an experience several friends I played with also had. The deciding factor in departure was the concept that I pay to play a game that I enjoy, but in order to play the game optimally I had to invest significant time into doing daily activities rather than actually playing the game I wanted. Bottom line, although a single NPC kill for 10k SP is not a bad daily by any means, the narrative of 'pick your own end-game' or 'play the game how you want, this is a sandbox' becomes diminished as you funnel players into specific activities. As daily activities are added or expanded upon, stated in the original post, the freedoms that define and shape EVE are increasingly relinquished.
Anna Sthetic Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2016.04.14 05:34:49 - [1569] - Quote I see the steps CCP implements have a well-planned logic: - first, implementation of skill trading (e.g. injectors/extractors with selling extractors for Aurum) - second, to help players in extracting unnecessary SPs (from industrialists, cyno-alts and other capped toons) providing a nice shower of skillpoints to speed-up SP farming under this circumstances skillpoints devaluate and the demand for extractors grows, extractors are sold for cash by CCP, so there are two possible scenarios: - players start to purchase more extractors: profit! - players decide not to spend much: Character Bazzar offers a lot of cheap toons, RMT also boosts Skillpoints are already made a new in-game currency, thus CCP is THAT steady to reward only skillpoints, but not LP, Opportunities Kredits, Aurum or anything else, so the major goal is to saturate market with cheap skillpoints, hoping the demand would raise due to increasing supply. I think this would probably lead to further switching into F2P model like implementing World of Tanks in space, as CCP is far more concerned about its profits rather than keeping its playerbase happy. Increasing PCU is not the actual Developer's goal, because killing a rat a day will definitely NOT affect anything rather than introducing the skillpoints faucet. Next step as I can guess would be providing a bunch of extractors as a bonus for upgrading trial into active account to switch a paradigm that skillpoints trading is something very normal and very welcome. At least the current step of a GÇ£bigger visionGÇ¥ goal is to provide a big pool of skillpoints for sale. Short-calibrated rift in standard cache is not working, rift to radio-alignment unit in superior cache is not working for more that six months, who cares, five overview tabs are not enough, but there is a legacy code, so, again, it will never be fixed, the new launcher is glitchy, not a big deal, those GÇ£little thingsGÇ¥ will wait forever, but standings will be eliminated first, next the learning implants will go, because this is a part of a plan: subscribe, inject, fight. The obligatory: Yes, that is solely my crazy theory because I read between the lines, and, no, you can not have my stuff as I own nothing.
Axhind Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation 154	Posted - 2016.04.14 07:21:12 - [1570] - Quote Anna Sthetic wrote: I see the steps CCP implements have a well-planned logic: - first, implementation of skill trading (e.g. injectors/extractors with selling extractors for Aurum) - second, to help players in extracting unnecessary SPs (from industrialists, cyno-alts and other capped toons) providing a nice shower of skillpoints to speed-up SP farming under this circumstances skillpoints devaluate and the demand for extractors grows, extractors are sold for cash by CCP, so there are two possible scenarios: - players start to purchase more extractors: profit! - players decide not to spend much: Character Bazzar offers a lot of cheap toons, RMT also boosts Skillpoints are already made a new in-game currency, thus CCP is THAT steady to reward only skillpoints, but not LP, Opportunities Kredits, Aurum or anything else, so the major goal is to saturate market with cheap skillpoints, hoping the demand would raise due to increasing supply. I think this would probably lead to further switching into F2P model like implementing World of Tanks in space, as CCP is far more concerned about its profits rather than keeping its playerbase happy. Increasing PCU is not the actual Developer's goal, because killing a rat a day will definitely NOT affect anything rather than introducing the skillpoints faucet. Next step as I can guess would be providing a bunch of extractors as a bonus for upgrading trial into active account to switch a paradigm that skillpoints trading is something very normal and very welcome. At least the current step of a GÇ£bigger visionGÇ¥ goal is to provide a big pool of skillpoints for sale. Short-calibrated rift in standard cache is not working, rift to radio-alignment unit in superior cache is not working for more that six months, who cares, five overview tabs are not enough, but there is a legacy code, so, again, it will never be fixed, the new launcher is glitchy, not a big deal, those GÇ£little thingsGÇ¥ will wait forever, but standings will be eliminated first, next the learning implants will go, because this is a part of a plan: subscribe, inject, fight. The obligatory: Yes, that is solely my crazy theory because I read between the lines, and, no, you can not have my stuff as I own nothing. It's not even that they are concerned with profits. They are concerned with short term profits and are, on the side, killing the game that has actually paid for all their side projects (none of which have shown any success what so ever by the way). EVE sells because it used to be unique game that respected players and their time, not because it's the n:th copy of WOW. Sadly the greed of CCP knows no bounds, and I guess some of those side projects need to be paid so they are doing only thing they know. Cashing in EVE and then applying for jobs elsewhere as EVE is going down (unless seagull reins in Fozzie and Rise type of thinking and game changes).
NovaCat13 Seymourus and Co. 162	Posted - 2016.04.14 07:30:27 - [1571] - Quote Quote: ItGÇÖs very important to note here that this means all the skillpoints available to buy on the market in EVE will have originated on other characters where they were trained at the normal rate. Player driven economies are key to EVE design and we want you to decide the value of traded skillpoints while we make sure there is one single mechanism that brings new skillpoints in to the system GÇô training. So when is Team Size Matters going to address this? Those words came from this same team, not even 3 months ago. Or did you forget?
Jeremiah Saken The Fall of Leviathan 554	Posted - 2016.04.14 08:31:59 - [1572] - Quote NovaCat13 wrote: Quote: ItGÇÖs very important to note here that this means all the skillpoints available to buy on the market in EVE will have originated on other characters where they were trained at the normal rate. Player driven economies are key to EVE design and we want you to decide the value of traded skillpoints while we make sure there is one single mechanism that brings new skillpoints in to the system GÇô training. So when is Team Size Matters going to address this? Those words came from this same team, not even 3 months ago. Or did you forget? Why should they? Whatever they wrote it will be bull****. They smelled the blood, I meant money. Nothing will stop them now. "(...) I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas (...)" "Here in the garden of the arcane delights dark shadows overwhelm us and and we become blind..."
Warmonger Simon Trinity Alpha Zero 17	Posted - 2016.04.14 08:50:09 - [1573] - Quote As long as total 'new SP' made by new opportunities is not bigger than one of lost injected from injectors due to their diminishing returns im fine with this.
William Rokov Better go yolo Yolo Brothers 115	Posted - 2016.04.14 08:59:07 - [1574] - Quote What about suggestion to add some different ways to complete this daily quest. Killing npc is not allowed to all professions in eve. So, lets say, it will be something like that get 10k sp for: Scan any signature in space OR kill npc OR repair any portion armor or shield using remote module OR manufacture something. So any player will be able to make this daily quest in his own way that similar to his usual game activity. No links, no scouts. True solo pvp pilot.
Jeremiah Saken The Fall of Leviathan 555	Posted - 2016.04.14 09:04:09 - [1575] - Quote William Rokov wrote: So any player will be able to make this daily quest in his own way that similar to his usual game activity. Why should I get reward for something I will do anyway? There will be dailies for other activities as Rise stated but why? "(...) I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas (...)" "Here in the garden of the arcane delights dark shadows overwhelm us and and we become blind..."
Olmeca Gold Pleonexium Sustainable Whaling Inc. 6	Posted - 2016.04.14 09:21:08 - [1576] - Quote People seem to focus more on reward and how CCP can incentivize, rather than what CCP incentivizes with this proposal. The nature of the reward is not the problem here. I heard people like JohnyPew offering bringing back limtied skill que and increasing it with daily ship kill. Thats crazy bad an idea and would not achieve anything besides making the game more annoying. Because the problem is not the reward, it is what you wanna ask people to do for the reward. Whats important is how CCP can achieve a certain goal by using a reward system. Idk if it has to do with current proposal being easier to implement coding-wise, but at its best it would be an half-assed pursuit of a legitimate goal. We say Eve is a sandbox. It is fun as long as people interact with each other. They stalk, hunt, kill, scam each other, form fleets, do incursions together, do missions, do wormhole sites, sov pvp. They risk stuff to earn isk, they get killed and become somebody else's fun. That's whats fun in Eve. CCP should incentivize this. Let me call this 'content'. Simply incentivizing people to log in and kill 1 NPC per day is not the best solution to incentivize content. At its best you will get currently AFK people to login in hisec and kill an NPC per day. They will not be taking risk. They will not end up them participating in content in Eve after killing the NPC. Most likely scenario is that they will undock, kill an NPC in a belt, and dock back, log back off. You will probably get slightly increased online player numbers. It will not make Eve more fun and be a catalyst for content. Then what would catalyze content? First of all, do not reward risk free solo pve activity. By risk free I mostly mean hisec. By solo I mean there is very little chance of pvp interaction. This includes hisec missions/ratting/exploring etc. There is still a chance these people would get wardecced etc. But these people should have been pushed out of hisec anyway. This is another problematic area of Eve that I will not talk about but basically if you can earn pve income close to null/wh space in hisec this in itself is problematic. Even hisec incursions are a problem. Eve should be such that the rewards are sufficiently greater in null/wh compared to hisec so people would actually prefer losing ships over not leaving hisec. Incentivize risk-taking, and doing it daily, with rewards that are worth it. So PvE becomes a content catalyst. Here is an idea on how to do it properly. * Daily journal entries (similar to escalations) you get every day and which expire in 26 hours. * The entries send you in lowsec/nullsec/wormhole space and drop better loot in that order. If its low/null the system it sends you 5 jumps range of the closest null/lowsec system to you. If its in wormhole space the coordinates are in the system you are in (logged out etc) that day. * There could be Level 1 to 5 versions of this opportunities (1 good in simple frigates, 5 requires multiple battleships in fleet). There could also be exploration versions. * Now how can you choose which one you want? From the new daily opportunities menu you choose where (null, wh, low?) and which type (levels 1to5, exploration/combat) you want your daily journal entry. * IMPORTANT * They would not be gated and they would spawn beacons. Others can warp in and attack you easily. High chance of getting caught. We catalyze content, remember. * They would take at least 20 minutes to do. Sufficient chance for someone to find you. But also sufficient to ninja them in hostile null etc. * So once every day you get rewards equal to twice or even three times of what you would make spending same time doing the normal pve activity you do with that particular ship you are committing to the beacon, which is sufficient to do the anomaly you engage with. Risk taken should be big and reward should also balance the risk. * You can even combine the thematic in game event themes (Guristas, Blood sites etc.) with these. The events were an allright attempt to catalyze content, this is better. * Now **** the exact nature of the reward. Everything in Eve can be valued with ISK. The reward can be ISK, PLEX, Aurum, ships, whatever else. Just balance it so that it fits the values described above. If you make 100m ISK in a C4 wormhole anom, you should make 200/300m in a L4 wormhole daily opportunity. Now this is probably significantly harder to implement. It could take a whole patch. But it would be the real solution on what you want to incentivize. And i think the outcomes would be worth to allocate the needed CCP resources upon. Still wanna go lazymode? I have no problems if CCP wants to copy the sites from actual missions in game.
William Rokov Better go yolo Yolo Brothers 116	Posted - 2016.04.14 09:26:14 - [1577] - Quote Jeremiah Saken wrote: William Rokov wrote: So any player will be able to make this daily quest in his own way that similar to his usual game activity. Why should I get reward for something I will do anyway? There will be dailies for other activities as Rise stated but why? Because it is what daily quest used for. Daily quest should just motivate for login, nothing more. No links, no scouts. True solo pvp pilot.
Erihn Sabrovich 9	Posted - 2016.04.14 09:28:52 - [1578] - Quote Jeremiah Saken wrote: William Rokov wrote: So any player will be able to make this daily quest in his own way that similar to his usual game activity. Why should I get reward for something I will do anyway? There will be dailies for other activities as Rise stated but why? Because the point is getting you connected, not having you killing a rat... But the activity should require you to be connected for a minimum time... Killing a rat requires undocking, warping to an anomaly/belt (not 100% sure that there will be a rat), killing the rat and coming back... If you're a miner, you're likely to leave with a mining ship and mine a little until the rat appear. If you're in PvE (or even if you're in PvP) you'll get tempted to finish the anomaly instead of just killing a single NPC The requested activity is minimal but it MAY lead to more activity... How many times did I connect to restart my PI extractors and ended up staying 1/2h or more chatting with corp-mates... On another side, I do know that I won't connect daily for these 10k SP... They'll be a nice bonus when I connect, they may make me connect a little more (1/4h to spend... let's connect instead of some other dull activity) but EVE is a GAME, not a job... so there is no way I'd take it as seriously as a job... that's just missing the whole point about games... Somehow, I'd say that the losers are those who will feel compelled to connect daily... And if it burn them out and make them leave EVE, it's a good thing... both for EVE (people like that don't contribute to a nice environment) and for themself (they really do need to take some distance from EVE).
Jeremiah Saken The Fall of Leviathan 555	Posted - 2016.04.14 09:41:30 - [1579] - Quote Erihn Sabrovich wrote: Somehow, I'd say that the losers are those who will feel compelled to connect daily... And if it burn them out and make them leave EVE, it's a good thing... both for EVE (people like that don't contribute to a nice environment) and for themself (they really do need to take some distance from EVE). Rise want to made people loggin more often in hope to do something else maybe. You say it's a good thing that they will get burn out and leave EvE. What a twisted logic... William Rokov wrote: Because it is what daily quest used for. Daily quest should just motivate for login, nothing more. Dailiy should be something that will need to take 10-15 min at least. Stay enough to catch up with other and maybe do something. Undocking, kill rat and dock is 1,5 min. Rise already shot his knee with lunch break statement. Money, it's all about money from extractors because more SP will be on the market. Made from thin air. "(...) I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas (...)" "Here in the garden of the arcane delights dark shadows overwhelm us and and we become blind..."
Cat Evergreen EVE University Ivy League 10	Posted - 2016.04.14 10:00:51 - [1580] - Quote In a previous post I had the idea of limiting the daily SP bonus to charcters with active training. Today I found another reason why dailies should be limited to Main characters: Give players a reason to log in by providing a daily SP bonus for their Mains, and they will be in the game and make New Eden more alive. But give them a reason to log their Mains out after a few minutes so they can log in their Alts, and New Eden wouldn't get more alive at all.
Camila Orti Righteous Rabbitslayers Craft and War Services 0	Posted - 2016.04.14 11:22:25 - [1581] - Quote Cat Evergreen wrote: In a previous post I had the idea of limiting the daily SP bonus to charcters with active training. Today I found another reason why dailies should be limited to Main characters: Give players a reason to log in by providing a daily SP bonus for their Mains, and they will be in the game and make New Eden more alive. But give them a reason to log their Mains out after a few minutes so they can log in their Alts, and New Eden wouldn't get more alive at all. So how would you suggest CCP enforce the necessary requirement that players "pick" a main character? After say 20-50M SP on your main you might spend a month or so training an alt to fly Jump Freighters, is it then your main while your training queue is active on it?
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 2758	Posted - 2016.04.14 12:13:56 - [1582] - Quote Jeremiah Saken wrote: Dailiy should be something that will need to take 10-15 min at least. Stay enough to catch up with other and maybe do something. Undocking, kill rat and dock is 1,5 min. Rise already shot his knee with lunch break statement. Money, it's all about money from extractors because more SP will be on the market. Made from thin air. Killing a rat in most case will take more than than updating a skill queue used to. In most case, it was a click and drag of the skill you already knew you would queue up and then apply.
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 2758	Posted - 2016.04.14 12:18:29 - [1583] - Quote Chjna wrote: This thread is filled with comments that points out that other stuff is like: Quote: skill injectors are accepted, and why should this not be? It's like saying that Clamydia can't be bad, as you already have Syphilis. The reason that you did not complain that much about getting Syphilis, is that the guy you got it from was so sexy, that you forgot to think about how this would affect you in the long run. This time around, he is not that good lookin, you are all out of birth control pills, and you know he is infected. Most of all, you really do not want to raise a demanding kid by yourself, even if you would receive child maintenance. Us capsuleers have accepted a lot of changes for the worse and all the time does ccp get it the way they want in the end. Last time when we shoot the monument, what did it acchive? appart from a new model for the monument? -Looking at this new feature, Nothing. You can avoid the second infection just like you can avoid the burn-out from the opportunity system...
Terrorfrodo Renegade Hobbits for Mordor 724	Posted - 2016.04.14 12:35:39 - [1584] - Quote Happy with the update... this way I won't feel forced to log in alts every day that I normally only use for rare, special tasks. Well, I wouldn't have done it anyway because too lazy, but this way I will not feel bad for missing out on the reward :D I actually think this is a good feature. Pretty sure it will motivate me to log in on more days than I do now, and that is a good thing. .
Jeremiah Saken The Fall of Leviathan 555	Posted - 2016.04.14 12:39:36 - [1585] - Quote Terrorfrodo wrote: Happy with the update... this way I won't feel forced to log in alts every day that I normally only use for rare, special tasks. Well, I wouldn't have done it anyway because too lazy, but this way I will not feel bad for missing out on the reward :D I actually think this is a good feature. Pretty sure it will motivate me to log in on more days than I do now, and that is a good thing. and what was the reason you don't log that often? "(...) I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas (...)" "Here in the garden of the arcane delights dark shadows overwhelm us and and we become blind..."
Anize Oramara The Arch Dashing Dashers 759	Posted - 2016.04.14 12:47:41 - [1586] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: PotatoOverdose wrote: Right. At the end of the day this is a game. Not a job where people need an incentive to punch in every day. Treating it as the latter is bad. If fun for their customers isn't the goal, they should rethink their plan. You are surely the type of player who think EA is doing it all wrong while they are swimming in pools of money. If the real goal was fun, nobody would be making a dime in the gaming industry as they would burn all the money into MOAR FUN!!!! You keep the fun at an ok level and coast on it. This new feature does not add fun. Nothing about it is fun at all. What it adds is log-ins. Log-ins seems irrelevant but they are not. Rise said it in this very thread. Log-ins for non-direct gameplay reason generate un-intended gameplay event. You used to log for your skill queu every few days because you had less than 24 hours queued at that point and while there, you saw someone online to do something with or just did something because well, you are already in game so why not. Technically, they could just revert the skillqueue change and get back those log-ins but the feature is really well liked. People are happy to be able to setup their plan and just forget about it so removing this is a hard sell for CCP. From that point on, you have to give players a reason to log in that is often enough to matter (if it's once a month, it's not worth the effort to develop) and relatively easy so chances are you will still have some "game will" to do something after it in game. If they make the task something meaningful that lakes some time, they have a higher risk of player doing it and quitting. 1st daily wins like in WoT are an example of that. A lot fo people would do their 1st win and stop playing because getting that first win could easily take over 15 mins. Adding to a skillqueue for example just took a few seconds. The activity to get you online also has to be realtively easy in game term to make sure everyone can be the "log-in that will make stuff happen". If you ask people to scan a WH, you lost a good chunk of player because some can't scan anyway while shooting a rat is possible for at least 99% of the characters in game. (You technically might have a market alt with extracted weapon skill which would be unable to kill a frig rat but those are not likely to be numerous) The reward need to be attractive. If you give nothing, the log-ins won't happen. Nobody will long-in just to log in. You can try many things but in EVE, there is one ultimate carrot. The carrot that makes people orange with envy. The one that people are the most likely to do what you ask of them for it. That carrot also has a few bonus attached to it. You are monetizing it in a way that even people with a metric ass ton of it will have a use for it while most other resources might not. This is why SP was chosen and not anything like LP which some people are too damn rich to care about, ISK for the same reason, special LP because people might not want to spacebarbie their character and aurum because this mean killing their own income. SP is valuable to everyone and does not destroy CCPs revenue like aurum would. Now the first problem come but funnily enough, it's not a CCP problem but a playerbase problem. You see, the carrot that trumps them all really DOES trump them all at an insane level. Players are really going to go out of their way to get it. That carrot is way too tasty. It's a sugar coated candy stuffed with caramel served in a bowl of melted chocolate and the players are sugar deprived kids. We technically can all go down in our own way eating or apple ignoring the treat we can only obtain by juggling chainsaw while jumping through fire hoops over a piranha pond in a blizzard but a lot of people just can't skip it. Hell they are willing to arrange of set of chainsaw with automatic gas refilling to make sure they get it the most often possible. This si technically all on them even if they will accuse CCP of making them do it. CCP never said "Thou shall juggle chainsaw while jumping fire hoops over a piranha pond in a blizzard". All they are doing it saying "Hey guys, we're leaving to you everything you used to have but if you ever feel like doing and extra thing, we'll give you something for it". This is what CCP is announcing right now. The choice will stay in each player's hand just like all the choice we don in game. The requirement for the reward is something more than likely just so we can't just crash the client as soon as it load so we can do it faster while still begin extremely short, easy and not really "gameable" like PvP kills would be. Holy molly I don't think Ive ever agreed with a post as much as this one and its a goon. It's like I'm taking crazy pills. A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.1
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 2759	Posted - 2016.04.14 12:58:41 - [1587] - Quote Anize Oramara wrote: Frostys Virpio wrote: PotatoOverdose wrote: Right. At the end of the day this is a game. Not a job where people need an incentive to punch in every day. Treating it as the latter is bad. If fun for their customers isn't the goal, they should rethink their plan. You are surely the type of player who think EA is doing it all wrong while they are swimming in pools of money. If the real goal was fun, nobody would be making a dime in the gaming industry as they would burn all the money into MOAR FUN!!!! You keep the fun at an ok level and coast on it. This new feature does not add fun. Nothing about it is fun at all. What it adds is log-ins. Log-ins seems irrelevant but they are not. Rise said it in this very thread. Log-ins for non-direct gameplay reason generate un-intended gameplay event. You used to log for your skill queu every few days because you had less than 24 hours queued at that point and while there, you saw someone online to do something with or just did something because well, you are already in game so why not. Technically, they could just revert the skillqueue change and get back those log-ins but the feature is really well liked. People are happy to be able to setup their plan and just forget about it so removing this is a hard sell for CCP. From that point on, you have to give players a reason to log in that is often enough to matter (if it's once a month, it's not worth the effort to develop) and relatively easy so chances are you will still have some "game will" to do something after it in game. If they make the task something meaningful that lakes some time, they have a higher risk of player doing it and quitting. 1st daily wins like in WoT are an example of that. A lot fo people would do their 1st win and stop playing because getting that first win could easily take over 15 mins. Adding to a skillqueue for example just took a few seconds. The activity to get you online also has to be realtively easy in game term to make sure everyone can be the "log-in that will make stuff happen". If you ask people to scan a WH, you lost a good chunk of player because some can't scan anyway while shooting a rat is possible for at least 99% of the characters in game. (You technically might have a market alt with extracted weapon skill which would be unable to kill a frig rat but those are not likely to be numerous) The reward need to be attractive. If you give nothing, the log-ins won't happen. Nobody will long-in just to log in. You can try many things but in EVE, there is one ultimate carrot. The carrot that makes people orange with envy. The one that people are the most likely to do what you ask of them for it. That carrot also has a few bonus attached to it. You are monetizing it in a way that even people with a metric ass ton of it will have a use for it while most other resources might not. This is why SP was chosen and not anything like LP which some people are too damn rich to care about, ISK for the same reason, special LP because people might not want to spacebarbie their character and aurum because this mean killing their own income. SP is valuable to everyone and does not destroy CCPs revenue like aurum would. Now the first problem come but funnily enough, it's not a CCP problem but a playerbase problem. You see, the carrot that trumps them all really DOES trump them all at an insane level. Players are really going to go out of their way to get it. That carrot is way too tasty. It's a sugar coated candy stuffed with caramel served in a bowl of melted chocolate and the players are sugar deprived kids. We technically can all go down in our own way eating or apple ignoring the treat we can only obtain by juggling chainsaw while jumping through fire hoops over a piranha pond in a blizzard but a lot of people just can't skip it. Hell they are willing to arrange of set of chainsaw with automatic gas refilling to make sure they get it the most often possible. This si technically all on them even if they will accuse CCP of making them do it. CCP never said "Thou shall juggle chainsaw while jumping fire hoops over a piranha pond in a blizzard". All they are doing it saying "Hey guys, we're leaving to you everything you used to have but if you ever feel like doing and extra thing, we'll give you something for it". This is what CCP is announcing right now. The choice will stay in each player's hand just like all the choice we don in game. The requirement for the reward is something more than likely just so we can't just crash the client as soon as it load so we can do it faster while still begin extremely short, easy and not really "gameable" like PvP kills would be. Holy molly I don't think Ive ever agreed with a post as much as this one and its a goon. It's like I'm taking crazy pills. It's the saddest post I think I ever wrote...
Terrorfrodo Renegade Hobbits for Mordor 724	Posted - 2016.04.14 13:00:37 - [1588] - Quote Jeremiah Saken wrote: Terrorfrodo wrote: Happy with the update... this way I won't feel forced to log in alts every day that I normally only use for rare, special tasks. Well, I wouldn't have done it anyway because too lazy, but this way I will not feel bad for missing out on the reward :D I actually think this is a good feature. Pretty sure it will motivate me to log in on more days than I do now, and that is a good thing. and what was the reason you don't log that often? Inertia. After work, many days I feel it is too much effort to log in to EVE so I just sit and watch some stupid movie I already know or don't do anything at all. But if I do somehow manage to log in (either because I force myself or a corp ping motivates me enough), I may stay and play for several hours. With EVE this is more an issue than with other games because on any given day you don't really know if you will find interesting content or just 'waste' your time trying to find it. This makes it especially hard to overcome this 'log-in threshold' sometimes. You just think: 'Maybe tomorrow, today I'm too tired. And I don't miss out on anything so it doesn't matter whether I play today or tomorrow'. Now I'm sure many people don't get this and will just say 'so if you don't want to log in, just don't, why should we care'. But CCP cares, and if a sizable number of players are like me (and I think that is probable), it totally makes sense from their point of view to introduce a feature like this. .
Anize Oramara The Arch Dashing Dashers 759	Posted - 2016.04.14 13:04:47 - [1589] - Quote Tippia wrote: Frostys Virpio wrote: Nope. They want you to log-in and do something and for that, they are willing to GÇªgive you something that cannot be had in any other way: time. In order to get this unique and incomparably valuable commodity, you are forced to engage in an activity that serves absolutely no other purpose. But Tippia, that's a bald faced lie. Why would you lie like that just to win an internet argument? At this point in time in Eve SP = ISK and ISK = SP. The ENTIRE THREAD is laughably silly (as is your extreme measures to win it) if you consider that single fact. Ratting for ISK, Station Trading for ISK, Wormholes, Industry, PVP (Moons, loot, corp theft, etc.) In fact any single activity that rewards ISK in some way REWARDS SP BECAUSE SKILL INJECTORS. I am finding the amount of energy going into fighting this one of the single most amusing things in a long time. . A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.1
Evander Armistice Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 15	Posted - 2016.04.14 13:08:37 - [1590] - Quote Hi CCP Rise, I understand that the goal is more log ins and I personally have no issues with giving out small amounts of sp to encourage it. I just wish you would introduce a more elegant way to do it. 10k for the first npc kill seems very clunky and "un-Eve". I wish you would find a better avenue to reward log ins. Love what you have done in the past, I think you can do better with this. Thanks for reading
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 2761	Posted - 2016.04.14 13:17:19 - [1591] - Quote Evander Armistice wrote: Hi CCP Rise, I understand that the goal is more log ins and I personally have no issues with giving out small amounts of sp to encourage it. I just wish you would introduce a more elegant way to do it. 10k for the first npc kill seems very clunky and "un-Eve". I wish you would find a better avenue to reward log ins. Love what you have done in the past, I think you can do better with this. Thanks for reading The whole reason why this idea is trash is because rewarding log-ins is stupid. We should log-in because the product is deserving of our time. Not because some specific mechanic is based on logging in. More people log in right now because there is fun to be had in the game with the war. Once that war is over, what will be the reason? It should not be an artificial reason like a daily.
baltec1 Bat Country Pandemic Legion 17596	Posted - 2016.04.14 13:40:32 - [1592] - Quote Terrorfrodo wrote: Jeremiah Saken wrote: Terrorfrodo wrote: Happy with the update... this way I won't feel forced to log in alts every day that I normally only use for rare, special tasks. Well, I wouldn't have done it anyway because too lazy, but this way I will not feel bad for missing out on the reward :D I actually think this is a good feature. Pretty sure it will motivate me to log in on more days than I do now, and that is a good thing. and what was the reason you don't log that often? Inertia. After work, many days I feel it is too much effort to log in to EVE so I just sit and watch some stupid movie I already know or don't do anything at all. But if I do somehow manage to log in (either because I force myself or a corp ping motivates me enough), I may stay and play for several hours. With EVE this is more an issue than with other games because on any given day you don't really know if you will find interesting content or just 'waste' your time trying to find it. This makes it especially hard to overcome this 'log-in threshold' sometimes. You just think: 'Maybe tomorrow, today I'm too tired. And I don't miss out on anything so it doesn't matter whether I play today or tomorrow'. Now I'm sure many people don't get this and will just say 'so if you don't want to log in, just don't, why should we care'. But CCP cares, and if a sizable number of players are like me (and I think that is probable), it totally makes sense from their point of view to introduce a feature like this. Rubbish. People who don't log in every day don't log in because they don't have time. No amount of SP reward will change that and to bring in this kind of daily reward will only serve to punish the people who simply do not have the time in the day to play EVE.
Anize Oramara The Arch Dashing Dashers 761	Posted - 2016.04.14 13:51:10 - [1593] - Quote baltec1 wrote: Terrorfrodo wrote: Jeremiah Saken wrote: Terrorfrodo wrote: Happy with the update... this way I won't feel forced to log in alts every day that I normally only use for rare, special tasks. Well, I wouldn't have done it anyway because too lazy, but this way I will not feel bad for missing out on the reward :D I actually think this is a good feature. Pretty sure it will motivate me to log in on more days than I do now, and that is a good thing. and what was the reason you don't log that often? Inertia. After work, many days I feel it is too much effort to log in to EVE so I just sit and watch some stupid movie I already know or don't do anything at all. But if I do somehow manage to log in (either because I force myself or a corp ping motivates me enough), I may stay and play for several hours. With EVE this is more an issue than with other games because on any given day you don't really know if you will find interesting content or just 'waste' your time trying to find it. This makes it especially hard to overcome this 'log-in threshold' sometimes. You just think: 'Maybe tomorrow, today I'm too tired. And I don't miss out on anything so it doesn't matter whether I play today or tomorrow'. Now I'm sure many people don't get this and will just say 'so if you don't want to log in, just don't, why should we care'. But CCP cares, and if a sizable number of players are like me (and I think that is probable), it totally makes sense from their point of view to introduce a feature like this. Rubbish. People who don't log in every day don't log in because they don't have time. No amount of SP reward will change that and to bring in this kind of daily reward will only serve to punish the people who simply do not have the time in the day to play EVE. So you're saying his personal experience and reasons for doing something is... not true? What? A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.1
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 2764	Posted - 2016.04.14 13:52:58 - [1594] - Quote baltec1 wrote: Terrorfrodo wrote: Jeremiah Saken wrote: Terrorfrodo wrote: Happy with the update... this way I won't feel forced to log in alts every day that I normally only use for rare, special tasks. Well, I wouldn't have done it anyway because too lazy, but this way I will not feel bad for missing out on the reward :D I actually think this is a good feature. Pretty sure it will motivate me to log in on more days than I do now, and that is a good thing. and what was the reason you don't log that often? Inertia. After work, many days I feel it is too much effort to log in to EVE so I just sit and watch some stupid movie I already know or don't do anything at all. But if I do somehow manage to log in (either because I force myself or a corp ping motivates me enough), I may stay and play for several hours. With EVE this is more an issue than with other games because on any given day you don't really know if you will find interesting content or just 'waste' your time trying to find it. This makes it especially hard to overcome this 'log-in threshold' sometimes. You just think: 'Maybe tomorrow, today I'm too tired. And I don't miss out on anything so it doesn't matter whether I play today or tomorrow'. Now I'm sure many people don't get this and will just say 'so if you don't want to log in, just don't, why should we care'. But CCP cares, and if a sizable number of players are like me (and I think that is probable), it totally makes sense from their point of view to introduce a feature like this. Rubbish. People who don't log in every day don't log in because they don't have time. No amount of SP reward will change that and to bring in this kind of daily reward will only serve to punish the people who simply do not have the time in the day to play EVE. Wrong. People WILL log in for SP.
Johnathan Coffey Niforce Triggers 38	Posted - 2016.04.14 14:20:32 - [1595] - Quote So let me get this straight. Instead of improving the game so that players actually WANT to log in and play, you bribe us with SP to log in and do a task that is both less exciting and less challenging than solving a captcha... Now that I think about it, can we just straight up get a captcha instead? Preferably here in the forums, so I can do it at work and not waste time logging in my 15 accounts every evening. First rule of EVE UI: right click EVERYTHING.
Tollix Yolo Aliastra Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2016.04.14 14:28:53 - [1596] - Quote I think this is a poor idea. It goes against one of the reason I signed up for Eve in the first place as I couldn't guarantee daily logins and would go inactive but maintain my sub due to personal reasons and events out of my control and maintain a competitive skill point gain. With this change I would be severely less competitive than a player that is capable of committing to this task. Skill Injectors did change this but this is still SP that was generated via the SP/Hr method, and thus the balance is maintained to a degree. Secondly lets assume you keep the npc rat event trigger. This npc rat is not a 10 minute quick task that you can do in a lunch break in all areas of space. Take WHs for an example if there are no sigs/sites in you home hole (yes this has happened to me) you have to scan the neighboring holes completely then check for activity. Now maybe you can kill your 1 npc rat if the site is solo able ( as this is a quick task so I should be able to do this alone without organizing a fleet). This quite possibly will take longer than 10 min which is your stated target time for this opportunity. Alternatively I can move to HS and be able to complete this task on a whim. So essentially as I see it in a way you are trying to bribe me out of a WH for SP. Additionally you would like to force players to miss out on this opportunity in times when it is not possible to perform the task or just stupid to try eg. Eviction/ War dec/Null war or any combat condition where more than a frig is required in hostile territory. If logging in and getting side tracked by the people online is your stated goal then make the complete condition talking in a corp channel. That way it is the same time and commitment for all areas of space and the chances of the player interacting with another player that could get them involved in something meaningful is increased. Note: First prize would be to cancel this change completely and go back to the drawing board.
Chjna the Goose Flock 39	Posted - 2016.04.14 14:33:23 - [1597] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: Chjna wrote: This thread is filled with comments that points out that other stuff is like: Quote: skill injectors are accepted, and why should this not be? It's like saying that Clamydia can't be bad, as you already have Syphilis. The reason that you did not complain that much about getting Syphilis, is that the guy you got it from was so sexy, that you forgot to think about how this would affect you in the long run. This time around, he is not that good lookin, you are all out of birth control pills, and you know he is infected. Most of all, you really do not want to raise a demanding kid by yourself, even if you would receive child maintenance. Us capsuleers have accepted a lot of changes for the worse and all the time does ccp get it the way they want in the end. Last time when we shoot the monument, what did it acchive? appart from a new model for the monument? -Looking at this new feature, Nothing. You can avoid the second infection just like you can avoid the burn-out from the opportunity system... precisely, by not implementing it. Remove T2 BPOs
Manic Velocity The Corp I Just Left 168	Posted - 2016.04.14 14:41:10 - [1598] - Quote What troubles me most about this is that it will undoubtedly be an effective motivator to get people logging in and undocking. There will be more people in space, and the PCU will increase. But not because this is a good mechanics that adds depth and complexity to the overall gameplay. It's only an effective motivator because it blatantly takes advantage of something deeply rooted in our psychology. And even worse is that this is no secret. This is exactly why similar mechanics are used in other MMOs. Because it just works. I won't deny that more people undocked and in space is a good thing. But does it have to come at the cost of considering why they're undocked and in space? If the only reason they're undocked and in space is because they're doing what CCP tells them they should do, at a regular interval as determined by CCP, then this mechanic goes against everything that the sandbox is about, and it diminishes the free-form player agency that EVE prides itself on. CCP, I don't want to feel like I'm being taken advantage of when I log into your game. I know you're going to implement this anyway, despite the backlash from the community, but still I feel compelled to plead that you to reconsider. @manicvelocity
Terrorfrodo Renegade Hobbits for Mordor 724	Posted - 2016.04.14 14:42:42 - [1599] - Quote Tollix Yolo wrote: maintain a competitive skill point gain. And what is that? Either you have good skills for a particular task or you don't. For every possible task there will always be a large number of players who have a lower skill level in it and a large number of players who have an equal or higher one. If I have 40, 80 or 120m SP on my main, getting this 20% bonus SP for daily logins does not affect my overall competitiveness. I already have a lot of gameplay options available where I can have very good skills. More SP just gives me more options, and the bonus SP gives me these options faster. But I will never 'lose' against another player in any way because he gained SP 20% faster than me. The only case where this 20% makes a real difference is very new players still on the way to achieving really good skills for even a single ship or task, and they should generally be more active and it is good if they get a tangible reward for being active every day. .
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 27423	Posted - 2016.04.14 14:57:15 - [1600] - Quote Anize Oramara wrote: But Tippia, that's a bald faced lie. No. Again: injectors do not* create time*. None of the activities you list create time; much less SP. All you're demonstrating is that it would be infinitely better if the rewards came in the form of ISK, same as with every other activity you can choose from.
Cyan Moonwinder Cyta Corp 3	Posted - 2016.04.14 15:01:01 - [1601] - Quote I highly approve of this idea. Despite some people yelling about EVE becoming a modernized MMO, it gives incentive to players to login everyday. Despite it being a bit -too- simple to me, I feel it's still a great way to accelerate newer players who would desperately need those skill points, or a veteran player who is happy to chip away at that massive rock of a 10+ day train time. I'd also like to focus on the 'modernization' thing, the training system needs something to help make it easier for newer players to attain skills for trying things in the game out, and I personally think this would be perfect in the long run to help bring in new blood.
Johnathan Coffey Niforce Triggers 38	Posted - 2016.04.14 15:09:48 - [1602] - Quote Cyan Moonwinder wrote: I highly approve of this idea. Despite some people yelling about EVE becoming a modernized MMO, it gives incentive to players to login everyday. Despite it being a bit -too- simple to me, I feel it's still a great way to accelerate newer players who would desperately need those skill points, or a veteran player who is happy to chip away at that massive rock of a 10+ day train time. I'd also like to focus on the 'modernization' thing, the training system needs something to help make it easier for newer players to attain skills for trying things in the game out, and I personally think this would be perfect in the long run to help bring in new blood. Why should i feel incentivized to log in every day? Or in other words, if i have to log in every day to get the most out of my game, why should I play EVE and not some other game? Or in yet other words, why should I be punished for not being able to log in every day and why should I not just walk away instead of taking the punishment? First rule of EVE UI: right click EVERYTHING.
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 2764	Posted - 2016.04.14 15:42:47 - [1603] - Quote Tippia wrote: Anize Oramara wrote: But Tippia, that's a bald faced lie. No. Again: injectors do not* create time*. None of the activities you list create time; much less SP. All you're demonstrating is that it would be infinitely better if the rewards came in the form of ISK, same as with every other activity you can choose from. The SP generated from game mechanic A don't have to follow the rule of those created by game mechanic B. This flies int he face of "SP will only be created by training" but I think by now you should of gotten the idea that this was no longer true as soon as they decided to reward SP for an activity. The SP rewarded for the opportunity are not a "time creation" because they are not handed over time anyway. They are created by an entire different set of rule. As for ISK reward instead of SP, the reason for that is that much less people are strongly addicted to the ISK drugs than the SP drugs hard enough to log-in as often. We have to keep in mind they want as much log-ins as possible. Not the system that makes the most sense.
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 2764	Posted - 2016.04.14 15:45:08 - [1604] - Quote Cyan Moonwinder wrote: I highly approve of this idea. Despite some people yelling about EVE becoming a modernized MMO, it gives incentive to players to login everyday. Despite it being a bit -too- simple to me, I feel it's still a great way to accelerate newer players who would desperately need those skill points, or a veteran player who is happy to chip away at that massive rock of a 10+ day train time. I'd also like to focus on the 'modernization' thing, the training system needs something to help make it easier for newer players to attain skills for trying things in the game out, and I personally think this would be perfect in the long run to help bring in new blood. You should log-in to a game because the game is interesting to play and not because you get something out of logging in. The real issue CCP face is they are not able to produce a game where we will log-in every day just out of our own will to play the game so they are resorting to artificial method to get us to log-in more often what we usually do.
Christian Kim Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2016.04.14 16:00:29 - [1605] - Quote I think it is good that many see introducing daily opportunities so critical. In the end those opportunities are chores. Those who don't have time are left feeling missing out on something, those who do them will get tired of them. Maybe not within a week, but sure as heck at some later point. Vardec Crom wrote: If you're actually looking for feedback on this I think what newer players need more than skill points is ISK, so to keep with your idea, you could have a "bonus bounty" once per day, like 10 mil, 5 mil, 20 mil, I don't know. I didn't mind skill injectors because they don't actually increase the net sp in the game, but this is handing out millions of sp a year to everybody, not a big fan. As a newer player who just returned after leaving the elder grind online I agree with you. Although I want and need SP, the thing that is keeping me from experiencing more of the game (low/nullsec activities) is ISK. If I had more ISK I could afford to go out and fight, go to lowsec and explore and do more risky stuff. But with implants costing me a large part of my total ISK, I simply cannot afford to die. To get back the ISK lost for level 3 implants I need to play a whole afternoon... or be lucky and get a really good lvl 4 mission. So if I want decent training times, I am confined to high sec and low ISK. Changing how jump clones work would do much more to encourage me playing the game than daily opportunities. Like being able to jump twice in 24 hours (which would allow me to jump to a combat clone and if I get pdded back in to my training clone). (Why is it ppl are so mean and podkill you all the fracking time, anyway?) I think I'll rather not have the option to shave off a couple of hours worth of training time off of the 19 days it will take me to train Gallente Cruiser 5 if I am left to do the activities I actually want to do and not daily chores and the pressure of having to log in every single day.
Lugh Crow-Slave 2085	Posted - 2016.04.14 16:16:40 - [1606] - Quote Cyan Moonwinder wrote: I highly approve of this idea. Despite some people yelling about EVE becoming a modernized MMO, it gives incentive to players to login everyday. Despite it being a bit -too- simple to me, I feel it's still a great way to accelerate newer players who would desperately need those skill points, or a veteran player who is happy to chip away at that massive rock of a 10+ day train time. I'd also like to focus on the 'modernization' thing, the training system needs something to help make it easier for newer players to attain skills for trying things in the game out, and I personally think this would be perfect in the long run to help bring in new blood. we are not complaining about it becoming a modern MMO we are complaining about it losing the sandbox Citadel worm hole tax
Tollix Yolo Aliastra Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2016.04.14 16:28:30 - [1607] - Quote Terrorfrodo wrote: Tollix Yolo wrote: maintain a competitive skill point gain. And what is that? Either you have good skills for a particular task or you don't. For every possible task there will always be a large number of players who have a lower skill level in it and a large number of players who have an equal or higher one. If I have 40, 80 or 120m SP on my main, getting this 20% bonus SP for daily logins does not affect my overall competitiveness. I already have a lot of gameplay options available where I can have very good skills. More SP just gives me more options, and the bonus SP gives me these options faster. But I will never 'lose' against another player in any way because he gained SP 20% faster than me. The only case where this 20% makes a real difference is very new players still on the way to achieving really good skills for even a single ship or task, and they should generally be more active and it is good if they get a tangible reward for being active every day. I see your point in terms of the greater EVE population. But it is all relative, I started playing with a bunch a real life friends. Now there is a relative competitive skill point gain between us ( not like you are bad at EVE if you have less). Yes we are generally trained to accomodate a relatively large amount of gameplay options but there is always more to train. I agree with you that it only increases your available gameplay options but this is equally competative between peers. And don't tell me you don't go damn I still have to do that one when your mate tells you he finished a LV5 skill that you still have to do. Now imagine that is just because he killed 1 npc a day. Not the end of the world but less than ideal. I have seen this with players resubbing that started with you they get a bit of a downers for a bit before getting back into it. As they see the options you have available to play with that they don't and would of if.... If you want it for new players only then make it that way I don't have a problem with that to be honest really. Although the casual gamer there may also feel that they are being left behind by their peers, this will be much more noticable with low SP characters. But then make it more lenient, not a daily task, that still rewards activity. I found comparing peers to be more of a metric of comparison in terms of SP that I used rather than comparing with older characters when I was younger, much less so now that I have my niche gameplay of choice trained. But maybe I'm weird and shouldn't compare at all.
Neeraja Kalrapindhi TYR. Exodus. 2	Posted - 2016.04.14 17:05:40 - [1608] - Quote After briefly reading through 81 pages of players from all backgrounds and experience levels mostly saying, "No!" ...I also have to add my voice to this, because it feels wrong to not say something even if it falls on deaf ears. I've played a lot of MMO's in my day and the daily challenges/tasks get repetitive and nothing burns me out faster. Which is what made EVE such a stellar game that keeps me coming back year after year, to pay to play even. I could undock and didn't feel required to do X, Y, or Z for the day...I could undock and do anything I wanted. Not to mention that the 3+ mil theoretical SP per year of doing the daily thing is no insignificant amount of SP, so even at my level I feel I'd be missing out by not doing them, even if I don't want to do it. I get that CCP is looking for more daily logins, but I think this type of "incentive" to get people to log in is the wrong type of deal and misrepresents what EVE is and how different from every other MMO it is. Let's not dumb down EVE, if I wanted to play WoW or whatever other grindy game there is nowadays, I would go do that. But I play EVE where we're a bit more elevated than the daily grind. If you want to reward people with small amounts of SP, give it for doing things in game, not just undocking to kill an NPC and dock back up. Give SP for actually completing the goals of the game via the tutorials, the opportunities, etc. That way it would benefit the lower SP people, who are the ones most in need of it , and it gets them out of the rut of highsec to learn just how fantastic of a game it is, how utterly sandbox it can be, and hopefully they'll find their niche in game and stick around. In EVE the stars are the limit.
FT Diomedes The Graduates 2491	Posted - 2016.04.14 17:08:08 - [1609] - Quote Johnathan Coffey wrote: Cyan Moonwinder wrote: I highly approve of this idea. Despite some people yelling about EVE becoming a modernized MMO, it gives incentive to players to login everyday. Despite it being a bit -too- simple to me, I feel it's still a great way to accelerate newer players who would desperately need those skill points, or a veteran player who is happy to chip away at that massive rock of a 10+ day train time. I'd also like to focus on the 'modernization' thing, the training system needs something to help make it easier for newer players to attain skills for trying things in the game out, and I personally think this would be perfect in the long run to help bring in new blood. Why should i feel incentivized to log in every day? Or in other words, if i have to log in every day to get the most out of my game, why should I play EVE and not some other game? Or in yet other words, why should I be punished for not being able to log in every day and why should I not just walk away instead of taking the punishment? I just don't understand why it matters that log in every day. I pay a subscription fee. Why does it matter whether I use the service as long as I continue to subscribe. I could understand encouraging daily logins in a F2P or one time fee game, but CCP gets paid no matter what I do in Eve, so long as I am willing to subscribe. They should be doing things to keep me wanting to subscribe. Right? CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.
Erihn Sabrovich 10	Posted - 2016.04.14 17:08:13 - [1610] - Quote Tippia wrote: Anize Oramara wrote: But Tippia, that's a bald faced lie. No. Again: injectors do not* create time*. None of the activities you list create time; much less SP. All you're demonstrating is that it would be infinitely better if the rewards came in the form of ISK, same as with every other activity you can choose from. Injector don't create time... But bonus SP don't create time either... You still have 24h/day, your prod won't go faster, your PI don't get of the supply chain faster, the belts/anomalies/signatures won't respawn faster, ... Combats vs NPC won't go faster (nor slower)... So it's time to stop throwing a tamtrum... CCP choice is a sensible one and if you don't like it, you may quit EVE, I won't care !!!
Jeremiah Saken The Fall of Leviathan 555	Posted - 2016.04.14 17:23:54 - [1611] - Quote Quote: Quote: and what was the reason you don't log that often? Inertia. After work, many days I feel it is too much effort to log in to EVE so I just sit and watch some stupid movie I already know or don't do anything at all. But if I do somehow manage to log in (either because I force myself or a corp ping motivates me enough), I may stay and play for several hours. With EVE this is more an issue than with other games because on any given day you don't really know if you will find interesting content or just 'waste' your time trying to find it. This makes it especially hard to overcome this 'log-in threshold' sometimes. You just think: 'Maybe tomorrow, today I'm too tired. And I don't miss out on anything so it doesn't matter whether I play today or tomorrow'. Now I'm sure many people don't get this and will just say 'so if you don't want to log in, just don't, why should we care'. But CCP cares, and if a sizable number of players are like me (and I think that is probable), it totally makes sense from their point of view to introduce a feature like this. If you are not motivated to log on into sandbox game, then maybe sandbox game is not for you. It should give you tools to play not lure you into a content that you don't like anyway. Nothing will change you just need an excuse. What will you do with SP you'll earn, you didn't know before now you will? Ofc people will do it and PCU will rise but will it still be a sandbox? Hardly. So maybe we stop with whole sandbox nonsense? Players don't like hardcore games nowadays. Everything must be fast, smooth and without effort. If you want to earn money CCP change approach to your product and stop pretending otherwise. "(...) I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas (...)" "Here in the garden of the arcane delights dark shadows overwhelm us and and we become blind..."
Anize Oramara The Arch Dashing Dashers 763	Posted - 2016.04.14 17:28:10 - [1612] - Quote Tippia wrote: Anize Oramara wrote: But Tippia, that's a bald faced lie. No. Again: injectors do not* create time. None of the activities you list create time; much less SP. All you're demonstrating is that it would be infinitely better if the rewards came in the form of ISK, same as with every other activity you can choose from. HAH oh how wrong you are. As I said earlier in this thread, all the SP farming alts, they create SP, create time, out of thin air since you can sell the injectors for enough to cover a plex to continue farming and get two cyno/trade/etc. alts out of the deal as well. This is in fact no different, except for the use of the plex. More demand for plex is a good thing though. Lets also not forget the fact that injectors Destroy* SP if anyone over 5mill SP uses them. An astronomic amount of SP has been lost to the aether since injectors came out. End of the day your post was a complete and utter lie and nothing you say will change that. Very sad. Lets look at the ISK injection issue! Too much raw isk injection is bad for the eve economy. Like, very bad. Isk faucets is a very real and very big thing that CCP has to manage in EvE and I bet the sums they made pointed to any non insignificant amount of ISK they can give the players for this would quickly do very bad things (TM) to the Eve economy. So a raw ISK injection is something they should not do, at least, not in this way. Even suggesting an ISK injection shows extreme lack of understanding of how eve works. Very dissapointed. A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.1
Anize Oramara The Arch Dashing Dashers 763	Posted - 2016.04.14 17:30:27 - [1613] - Quote ISK = SP and SP = ISK. In more ways that one actually since Isk = Plex = Game time = SP. Also since you need an active account to do the dailies past a 14d/21d trail (wonder if trails will be able to do dailies?) that means Isk = Plex = Game time = Dailies = SP. End of the day this is not anything NEW. That's the hilarity of it all. They are not doing anything new. Oh I'm sure the perception of the ignorant is that it's something new or that ISK/LP/AUR would be better but just like injectors they just need to go through with it and all the hubbub will die down. Fun fact, you want to know how much ISK they are giving for this daily? Take a guess! Anyone? 50mill? Nope. 30mill? Hah not even close! A skill injector with 500k SP goes for 642mill in Jita at the moment. A little bit of math and you get a grand total of .... 12.84mill!! That's right ladies and gentlemen, less than 13 mill ISK worth of SP. That's what everyone is up in arms over. How pathetically petty can players be? Yo CCP Rise, put that in your the Dev Blog you guys are going to write about this so people can see just how sad they are. inb4 'but it's the principle of the thing'. Spare me. The principle of the thing went out the damn window when injectors got released. A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.1
Erihn Sabrovich 10	Posted - 2016.04.14 17:31:59 - [1614] - Quote Jeremiah Saken wrote: Quote: Quote: and what was the reason you don't log that often? Inertia. After work, many days I feel it is too much effort to log in to EVE so I just sit and watch some stupid movie I already know or don't do anything at all. But if I do somehow manage to log in (either because I force myself or a corp ping motivates me enough), I may stay and play for several hours. With EVE this is more an issue than with other games because on any given day you don't really know if you will find interesting content or just 'waste' your time trying to find it. This makes it especially hard to overcome this 'log-in threshold' sometimes. You just think: 'Maybe tomorrow, today I'm too tired. And I don't miss out on anything so it doesn't matter whether I play today or tomorrow'. Now I'm sure many people don't get this and will just say 'so if you don't want to log in, just don't, why should we care'. But CCP cares, and if a sizable number of players are like me (and I think that is probable), it totally makes sense from their point of view to introduce a feature like this. If you are not motivated to log on into sandbox game, then maybe sandbox game is not for you. It should give you tools to play not lure you into a content that you don't like anyway. Nothing will change you just need an excuse. What will you do with SP you'll earn, you didn't know before now you will? This is clearly a way to compete for the "idle computer time" that many people have... these times where anything is good... surfing, posting on forums, watching a video on youtube, ... This will make EVE an interresting target for that "idle time"... And, well, like most MMO, EVE is also a "social game"... When you connect, you usually chat a little on corp channel or other... which will give you motivation to come back...
Mister Ripley Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde 197	Posted - 2016.04.14 17:50:21 - [1615] - Quote Anize Oramara wrote: ISK = SP and SP = ISK. In more ways that one actually since Isk = Plex = Game time = SP. Also since you need an active account to do the dailies past a 14d/21d trail (wonder if trails will be able to do dailies?) that means Isk = Plex = Game time = Dailies = SP. End of the day this is not anything NEW. That's the hilarity of it all. They are not doing anything new. Oh I'm sure the perception of the ignorant is that it's something new or that ISK/LP/AUR would be better but just like injectors they just need to go through with it and all the hubbub will die down. Fun fact, you want to know how much ISK they are giving for this daily? Take a guess! Anyone? 50mill? Nope. 30mill? Hah not even close! A skill injector with 500k SP goes for 642mill in Jita at the moment. A little bit of math and you get a grand total of .... 12.84mill!! That's right ladies and gentlemen, less than 13 mill ISK worth of SP. That's what everyone is up in arms over. How pathetically petty can players be? Yo CCP Rise, put that in your the Dev Blog you guys are going to write about this so people can see just how sad they are. inb4 'but it's the principle of the thing'. Spare me. The principle of the thing went out the damn window when injectors got released. Pick supporting numbers, ignore the rest, spice up with insults. Says a lot about your personality. Mister Ripley wrote: I have ~100M SP so I get 150k SP per Injector. To buy the same amount of SP dailies would provide in a year costs me ~16B ISK. That's ~45M ISK per day. I can earn that by playing approx one hour (with logging in, warping around, finding rats, killing rats, selling loot, etc). 10k SP per day can be earned in 5 minutes (maybe even less). So time wise it's: Playing 365 hours (~15 days) versus playing 30 hours (1 day, 6 hours). Per year. Do you really think, this is not punishing normal play styles compared to daily grind monkey play style? You can think what you want about skill injectors, but the diminishing returns are there for a reason. The more SP you have, the less incentive you have to use them. Dailies reverse this. 10k SP per day gives me 150k SP (worth 625M ISK) for 75 minutes playtime. Please show me the activity that gives 500M ISK per hour... And all this for logging in every day like a zombie and do the same thing, again and again and again and again..
Ravcharas Infinite Point Violence of Action. 486	Posted - 2016.04.14 17:54:54 - [1616] - Quote FT Diomedes wrote: I just don't understand why it matters that log in every day. I pay a subscription fee. Why does it matter whether I use the service as long as I continue to subscribe. I could understand encouraging daily logins in a F2P or one time fee game, but CCP gets paid no matter what I do in Eve, so long as I am willing to subscribe. They should be doing things to keep me wanting to subscribe. Right? The sad part is that this is going to make me subscribe less - not quit, just spend less on the service. Six accounts worth of dailies is going to cut into my "fun time" a bit too much. And I don't like the way Eve is heading, so, just as I did last year, when I went from seven down to six accounts, this year I'll be going from six down to five accounts. It matters because the game is more interesting and attractive it it feels populated. Eve is an interconnected game with a persistent world, so the consequences of my actions actually has an effect even after I'm logged off. However for every minute you are logged on, the possibility of interaction with other players is higher. Other people being the main draw of a massive multiplayer experience. But some actions have a much greater effect than others. And one hour of active play can be more important than other hours, even if that hour is spent doing the same kind of activity. That's the butterfly effect.
Fourteen Maken Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State 264	Posted - 2016.04.14 17:58:20 - [1617] - Quote Id prefer if this was for pvp kills or even losses, because for pve you already get full use of implants but players involved in real content (pvp) usually end up foregoing implants.
Anize Oramara The Arch Dashing Dashers 764	Posted - 2016.04.14 18:08:47 - [1618] - Quote Mister Ripley wrote: Mister Ripley wrote: I have ~100M SP so I get 150k SP per Injector. To buy the same amount of SP dailies would provide in a year costs me ~16B ISK. That's ~45M ISK per day. I can earn that by playing approx one hour (with logging in, warping around, finding rats, killing rats, selling loot, etc). 10k SP per day can be earned in 5 minutes (maybe even less). So time wise it's: Playing 365 hours (~15 days) versus playing 30 hours (1 day, 6 hours). Per year. Do you really think, this is not punishing normal play styles compared to daily grind monkey play style? You can think what you want about skill injectors, but the diminishing returns are there for a reason. The more SP you have, the less incentive you have to use them. Dailies reverse this. 10k SP per day gives me 150k SP (worth 625M ISK) for 75 minutes playtime. Please show me the activity that gives 500M ISK per hour... And all this for logging in every day like a zombie and do the same thing, again and again and again and again.. Actually no, if you do the dailies for 50 days you will have gained 500k SP. You then put it in an injector and sell the injector and... you get your 13mill ISK per 10k SP. Injectors might have less value to you because of your SP total but you're just twiating the numbers to fit YOUR narritive. Also you can only do this ONCE A DAY. I can make 200mill/h (or you your 50ish heh) every hour. So again, twisting numbers to fit your pov. Lets get some objectivity here. A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.1
Mister Ripley Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde 198	Posted - 2016.04.14 18:15:49 - [1619] - Quote Ravcharas wrote: FT Diomedes wrote: I just don't understand why it matters that log in every day. I pay a subscription fee. Why does it matter whether I use the service as long as I continue to subscribe. I could understand encouraging daily logins in a F2P or one time fee game, but CCP gets paid no matter what I do in Eve, so long as I am willing to subscribe. They should be doing things to keep me wanting to subscribe. Right? The sad part is that this is going to make me subscribe less - not quit, just spend less on the service. Six accounts worth of dailies is going to cut into my "fun time" a bit too much. And I don't like the way Eve is heading, so, just as I did last year, when I went from seven down to six accounts, this year I'll be going from six down to five accounts. It matters because the game is more interesting and attractive it it feels populated. Eve is an interconnected game with a persistent world, so the consequences of my actions actually has an effect even after I'm logged off. However for every minute you are logged on, the possibility of interaction with other players is higher. Other people being the main draw of a massive multiplayer experience. But some actions have a much greater effect than others. And one hour of active play can be more important than other hours, even if that hour is spent doing the same kind of activity. That's the butterfly effect. I understand your point but FT Dio. points out that a paying customer should not be pushed to provide some service (in this case content) to the sales company. It's like buying something and then being pushed to write positive reviews and recommend the product to friends and family. In Free to Play games you are the product. In Pay to Play games this should not be the case. The total CCU (concurrent users) metric makes sense in F2P games because every minute someone is playing is a minute to push him to buy game currency (i.e. because something takes insane amount of time to build or to craft, but can be completed with just 100 diamonds). I don't understand why CCP seems so eager to improve this metric. I never had the feeling to be alone somewhere. Sure some 0.0 areas are basicaly empty, but that's because of game mechanics. People are in other areas where they can use said mechanics in their favour. Like a standing fleet in a system, forming groups to be safe.
Tigh Edatosmi Bound And Determined 20	Posted - 2016.04.14 18:16:05 - [1620] - Quote I hope that a Dev makes it this far to read my two cents. 1. I don't like the overall idea. Eve is about gaining skill without needing to log on. It jives well with living a healthier life, knowing I don't have to grind and can continue to advance. I know that I will do dailies every day (I hope sleepers count) and that is on me to be able to deal with the emotional aspect of now having to level grind on top of the natural grind. 2. This will change the market for multiple account training. Fact. If i just need a few skills on an alt, I can work that out without buying a whole month of training. 3. "We don't want you to farm your alt, thats why no pvp... yada yada." - why not make it so you can get credit for activity by killing a given toon once? "But this will make fight clubs..." you mean where players have to interact with each other? I thought that was the point. Sucks for the database that has to keep track, but it can be that much data. 4. Seems like a slippery slope. Skill extractors were just launched, and to get the community to go along with the idea, the Devs said that the only way skills came into the game was through time. So, not two months later, that's changed. "Well, we aren't going to become like other MMO's, look, sandbox, citadels!". But the slope is clearly apparent. If the business model this game is predicated on is not financially viable, and the only way to survive is to attract a different type of new player, just be honest with the community. If you know that things have to change, that the old customer won't like the changes, but it will attract new customers or new business activity, don't misrepresent the process to the old customers, promising that things aren't really changing, when it is clear that they are, and continue to do so. Pretending that Eve is the same after a change like this, coupled with skill extractors and injectors, is unfair to your old time customers who purchased a different product with different rules. Just be honest with us about what the direction is and why. (A short TL;DR for this portion : Saying in a dev post "the only way skills come in to the game is through time" one month, and changing that literally two months later, is unfair to your customers). 5. This would be a great idea for new players, and should phase out the longer a toon is around. Best of both worlds, it promotes new players to keep logging on (to develop the habit), but protects invested players who have an advantage precisely because they have been around for so long. 6. I know, I know this will change in the future, so that different activities are rewarded differently. The posts that are coming about how "Why does he get the same SP for killing a high sec pirate NPC as I do for killing a sleeper in a C5, there will be these posts, and there will be a repsonse. Let us all be honest. TL;DR. I don't like the idea. I will keep playing, as long as there is fun to be had.
Mister Ripley Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde 199	Posted - 2016.04.14 18:31:41 - [1621] - Quote Anize Oramara wrote: Mister Ripley wrote: Mister Ripley wrote: I have ~100M SP so I get 150k SP per Injector. To buy the same amount of SP dailies would provide in a year costs me ~16B ISK. That's ~45M ISK per day. I can earn that by playing approx one hour (with logging in, warping around, finding rats, killing rats, selling loot, etc). 10k SP per day can be earned in 5 minutes (maybe even less). So time wise it's: Playing 365 hours (~15 days) versus playing 30 hours (1 day, 6 hours). Per year. Do you really think, this is not punishing normal play styles compared to daily grind monkey play style? You can think what you want about skill injectors, but the diminishing returns are there for a reason. The more SP you have, the less incentive you have to use them. Dailies reverse this. 10k SP per day gives me 150k SP (worth 625M ISK) for 75 minutes playtime. Please show me the activity that gives 500M ISK per hour... And all this for logging in every day like a zombie and do the same thing, again and again and again and again.. Actually no, if you do the dailies for 50 days you will have gained 500k SP. You then put it in an injector and sell the injector and... you get your 13mill ISK per 10k SP. Injectors might have less value to you because of your SP total but you're just twiating the numbers to fit YOUR narritive. Also you can only do this ONCE A DAY. I can make 200mill/h (or you your 50ish heh) every hour. So again, twisting numbers to fit your pov. Lets get some objectivity here. Why should I sell for 13M ISK per 10k SP if the benefit I get for not selling is 45M ISK per 10k SP. ISK = SP. Didn't you say that? I just showed the value of 10k SP to someone with over 80M SP. Nothing more.. And since ISK = SP, both can be treated as equally valuable. I find it also pretty funny to see you bragging about your 200M per hour. Yeah sure, if you start counting when warping in a site, don't consider other players, forming fleets, etc. If I play a week to accumulate some goods worth 100M ISK and the sell them all with five minutes, that must be 1.2B ISK per hour... right? 45M per hour may not be much, but that's what I make without putting much afford into it. Still a hundred times more effort compared to undock, kill NPC, dock.
FT Diomedes The Graduates 2493	Posted - 2016.04.14 18:33:11 - [1622] - Quote Ravcharas wrote: FT Diomedes wrote: I just don't understand why it matters that log in every day. I pay a subscription fee. Why does it matter whether I use the service as long as I continue to subscribe. I could understand encouraging daily logins in a F2P or one time fee game, but CCP gets paid no matter what I do in Eve, so long as I am willing to subscribe. They should be doing things to keep me wanting to subscribe. Right? The sad part is that this is going to make me subscribe less - not quit, just spend less on the service. Six accounts worth of dailies is going to cut into my "fun time" a bit too much. And I don't like the way Eve is heading, so, just as I did last year, when I went from seven down to six accounts, this year I'll be going from six down to five accounts. It matters because the game is more interesting and attractive it it feels populated. Eve is an interconnected game with a persistent world, so the consequences of my actions actually has an effect even after I'm logged off. However for every minute you are logged on, the possibility of interaction with other players is higher. Other people being the main draw of a massive multiplayer experience. But some actions have a much greater effect than others. And one hour of active play can be more important than other hours, even if that hour is spent doing the same kind of activity. That's the butterfly effect. As I have already explained elsewhere in this thread, logging in for 10-minutes a day to do a PVE task is not conducive to generating the butterfly effect. It is only conducive to boosting the log in numbers for the day. But why does that statistic matter? The game has a subscription model. CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.
Ravcharas Infinite Point Violence of Action. 486	Posted - 2016.04.14 18:35:41 - [1623] - Quote Mister Ripley wrote: Ravcharas wrote: FT Diomedes wrote: I just don't understand why it matters that log in every day. I pay a subscription fee. Why does it matter whether I use the service as long as I continue to subscribe. I could understand encouraging daily logins in a F2P or one time fee game, but CCP gets paid no matter what I do in Eve, so long as I am willing to subscribe. They should be doing things to keep me wanting to subscribe. Right? The sad part is that this is going to make me subscribe less - not quit, just spend less on the service. Six accounts worth of dailies is going to cut into my "fun time" a bit too much. And I don't like the way Eve is heading, so, just as I did last year, when I went from seven down to six accounts, this year I'll be going from six down to five accounts. It matters because the game is more interesting and attractive it it feels populated. Eve is an interconnected game with a persistent world, so the consequences of my actions actually has an effect even after I'm logged off. However for every minute you are logged on, the possibility of interaction with other players is higher. Other people being the main draw of a massive multiplayer experience. But some actions have a much greater effect than others. And one hour of active play can be more important than other hours, even if that hour is spent doing the same kind of activity. That's the butterfly effect. I understand your point but FT Dio. points out that a paying customer should not be pushed to provide some service (in this case content) to the sales company. It's like buying something and then being pushed to write positive reviews and recommend the product to friends and family. In Free to Play games you are the product. In Pay to Play games this should not be the case. The total CCU (concurrent users) metric makes sense in F2P games because every minute someone is playing is a minute to push him to buy game currency (i.e. because something takes insane amount of time to build or to craft, but can be completed with just 100 diamonds). I don't understand why CCP seems so eager to improve this metric. I never had the feeling to be alone somewhere. Sure some 0.0 areas are basicaly empty, but that's because of game mechanics. People are in other areas where they can use said mechanics in their favour. Like a standing fleet in a system, forming groups to be safe. I agree. And I'm quite against this daily opportunity implementation, I think it'll hurt the game. However, it needs still be pointed out that in multiplayer games players enable gameplay for each other. That's true for Eve and it's true for TF2 and it's true for World of Tanks. Paying or not, there's at least a theoretical point of critical player mass, below which the game simply wither away. So in some sense the game needs to push or prod everyone to some extent, to encourage whatever behaviour is deemed to be positive for the game eco system as a whole.
Vardec Crom Enlightened Industries Goonswarm Federation 13	Posted - 2016.04.14 18:46:56 - [1624] - Quote Hm I never thought about how the skill queue changes affected daily logins. And I suppose if it is targeted at everyone and not just new players then sp is definitely the way to go. Alright I'm willing to give this a shot.
Mister Ripley Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde 199	Posted - 2016.04.14 18:48:06 - [1625] - Quote Ravcharas wrote: I agree. And I'm quite against this daily opportunity implementation, I think it'll hurt the game. However, it needs still be pointed out that in multiplayer games players enable gameplay for each other. That's true for Eve and it's true for TF2 and it's true for World of Tanks. Paying or not, there's at least a theoretical point of critical player mass, below which the game simply wither away. So in some sense the game needs to push or prod everyone to some extent, to encourage whatever behaviour is deemed to be positive for the game eco system as a whole. True. This has already been pointed out alot of times in this thread. But shouldn't it be the gameplay that makes you want to play and not some psychological trick? EVE has so many features that are half-assed and CCP is not touching any of them. Instead they implement F2P game mechanics.
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 17646	Posted - 2016.04.14 19:13:01 - [1626] - Quote Mister Ripley wrote: Ravcharas wrote: I agree. And I'm quite against this daily opportunity implementation, I think it'll hurt the game. However, it needs still be pointed out that in multiplayer games players enable gameplay for each other. That's true for Eve and it's true for TF2 and it's true for World of Tanks. Paying or not, there's at least a theoretical point of critical player mass, below which the game simply wither away. So in some sense the game needs to push or prod everyone to some extent, to encourage whatever behaviour is deemed to be positive for the game eco system as a whole. True. This has already been pointed out alot of times in this thread. But shouldn't it be the gameplay that makes you want to play and not some psychological trick? CCP used to believe this, yes. "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
Stormin The Dominus Conglomerate 0	Posted - 2016.04.14 19:17:07 - [1627] - Quote Malcanis wrote: Mister Ripley wrote: Ravcharas wrote: I agree. And I'm quite against this daily opportunity implementation, I think it'll hurt the game. However, it needs still be pointed out that in multiplayer games players enable gameplay for each other. That's true for Eve and it's true for TF2 and it's true for World of Tanks. Paying or not, there's at least a theoretical point of critical player mass, below which the game simply wither away. So in some sense the game needs to push or prod everyone to some extent, to encourage whatever behaviour is deemed to be positive for the game eco system as a whole. True. This has already been pointed out alot of times in this thread. But shouldn't it be the gameplay that makes you want to play and not some psychological trick? CCP used to believe this, yes. We're all here because we enjoy the game play. If you didn't care about the game play you wouldn't want it to change. It's 10k SP a day, who cares. You'll basically get it passively when you log on, and maybe miss a few when you don't, its still more SP than you had before.
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 2767	Posted - 2016.04.14 19:26:10 - [1628] - Quote Stormin wrote: Malcanis wrote: Mister Ripley wrote: Ravcharas wrote: I agree. And I'm quite against this daily opportunity implementation, I think it'll hurt the game. However, it needs still be pointed out that in multiplayer games players enable gameplay for each other. That's true for Eve and it's true for TF2 and it's true for World of Tanks. Paying or not, there's at least a theoretical point of critical player mass, below which the game simply wither away. So in some sense the game needs to push or prod everyone to some extent, to encourage whatever behaviour is deemed to be positive for the game eco system as a whole. True. This has already been pointed out alot of times in this thread. But shouldn't it be the gameplay that makes you want to play and not some psychological trick? CCP used to believe this, yes. We're all here because we enjoy the game play. If you didn't care about the game play you wouldn't want it to change. It's 10k SP a day, who cares. You'll basically get it passively when you log on, and maybe miss a few when you don't, its still more SP than you had before. More or less SP isn't the question. Why they are resorting to artificial reason to make us log in instead of making the game more interesting so we log every day instead of every other day for example?
Ravcharas Infinite Point Violence of Action. 486	Posted - 2016.04.14 19:52:17 - [1629] - Quote Mister Ripley wrote: True. This has already been pointed out alot of times in this thread. But shouldn't it be the gameplay that makes you want to play and not some psychological trick? EVE has so many features that are half-assed and CCP is not touching any of them. Instead they implement F2P game mechanics. I think it should be both. Or rather, engaging gameplay relies on psychological tricks to work. But you need to be responsible about which tricks you use and how. Variable ratio rewards are the poster child for borderline unethical game design, and rightly so. But you also shouldn't design your loot drop tables to be entirely predictable either. It's fun to get a little something extra every now and then. But you need to be careful when you're meddling with what is essentially very deep buttons in the human mind that really none of us can protect. This is especially true in games like Eve, which really relies a lot on long term time investment, social bonding, and the kind of interconnectedness with your real life that means people actually get up in the middle of the night to respond to pings about tackled supers. Eve is real. So we all need to Eve responsibly. And that includes CCP. But I digress. I understand what you're saying, and I agree. At the end of the day all gamers are really showing up asking to be psychologically tricked into enjoying themselves. But we're mostly fine with being tricked if it's tickling our innate sense of wonder, or achievement, or exploration of the unknown, or social dynamics. That's a EULA most people are happy to sign.
Fourteen Maken Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State 264	Posted - 2016.04.14 20:05:00 - [1630] - Quote baltec1 wrote: Mister Ripley wrote: baltec1 wrote: Terrorfrodo wrote: If you earn ISK while logged off than whatever that is you're doing should be nerfed :p It's called industry. I wouldn't say it's "earning ISK while logged off". The actual industry part is getting the materials and setting everything up and then selling it. The time to build is just a cap to regulate the production volume. Same goes for trading. It sound nice the think about it like "afk ISK" but that ISK is just the result of your logged in activity. You just get the money with a certain delay. Like killing a rat, logging off and then getting the bounty. I'd rather spend 20 min setting up industry jobs then going on a weekend break than spending the weekend grinding FW missions. This is why I like eve, I'm not disadvantaged for only having limited play time. I can earn my isk and gain sp just as fast as people who play every day. This idea punishes people like me as I simply cannot log in every day. but people like you can have +5 implants plugged in all day every day, people who are active and in space most of the time can't so actually it balances out.
Ravcharas Infinite Point Violence of Action. 487	Posted - 2016.04.14 20:07:21 - [1631] - Quote Fourteen Maken wrote: baltec1 wrote: Mister Ripley wrote: baltec1 wrote: Terrorfrodo wrote: If you earn ISK while logged off than whatever that is you're doing should be nerfed :p It's called industry. I wouldn't say it's "earning ISK while logged off". The actual industry part is getting the materials and setting everything up and then selling it. The time to build is just a cap to regulate the production volume. Same goes for trading. It sound nice the think about it like "afk ISK" but that ISK is just the result of your logged in activity. You just get the money with a certain delay. Like killing a rat, logging off and then getting the bounty. I'd rather spend 20 min setting up industry jobs then going on a weekend break than spending the weekend grinding FW missions. This is why I like eve, I'm not disadvantaged for only having limited play time. I can earn my isk and gain sp just as fast as people who play every day. This idea punishes people like me as I simply cannot log in every day. but people like you can have +5 implants plugged in all day every day, people who are active and in space most of the time can't so actually it balances out. Getting podded often running level 4 missions in hisec, are you?
Stormin The Dominus Conglomerate 0	Posted - 2016.04.14 20:08:13 - [1632] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: Stormin wrote: Malcanis wrote: Mister Ripley wrote: Ravcharas wrote: I agree. And I'm quite against this daily opportunity implementation, I think it'll hurt the game. However, it needs still be pointed out that in multiplayer games players enable gameplay for each other. That's true for Eve and it's true for TF2 and it's true for World of Tanks. Paying or not, there's at least a theoretical point of critical player mass, below which the game simply wither away. So in some sense the game needs to push or prod everyone to some extent, to encourage whatever behaviour is deemed to be positive for the game eco system as a whole. True. This has already been pointed out alot of times in this thread. But shouldn't it be the gameplay that makes you want to play and not some psychological trick? CCP used to believe this, yes. We're all here because we enjoy the game play. If you didn't care about the game play you wouldn't want it to change. It's 10k SP a day, who cares. You'll basically get it passively when you log on, and maybe miss a few when you don't, its still more SP than you had before. More or less SP isn't the question. Why they are resorting to artificial reason to make us log in instead of making the game more interesting so we log every day instead of every other day for example? Before I get into why I feel how I feel I just want to say this. I don't feel pressured to log in to complete dailies for the SP. Since starting EVE there have always been players with more SP than me, and there always will be. Sure it's nice if I can get some extra SP real quick but overall the impact to me in game wont even be noticed. CCP is a business, they're creating an incentive. The goal being more player connections on average per day. From what they've told us they used to have that incentive with the 24hr queue restrictions and it was lost with previous changes. The unique nature of CCPs business is that their bottom line is directly connected to players enjoyment. If CCP feels that players generally enjoy the game more when more people are flying around, then they're accomplishing both goals at the same time with this change. More players online, more players see them and feel like they're part of something, CCP makes more money. They've also told us that players are more likely to stay connected longer once they've actually logged in. To me that is really not hard to believe. You might see a friend on, fly a new ship and want to pvp, warp to a belt for your rat kill and see some juicy ore, the list is endless given the nature of the game. It's unrealistic to expect that literally every person is just going to sign in, kill a rat, and log off right after. Even if that's they're intention chances are it wont play out that way. For people who have other commitments and only have time for something like that, its still there for them. Lastly for people who can't log on at all, I'll say it again, who cares? 10k SP is really not that much, sure it adds up over the course of a year but either way you're going to be able to accomplish what you want in this game without logging in literally every day to do you daily. The point is they want people to log on, if only for a few minutes because they're banking on the fact that a percentage of those people will stay logged on for a decent amount of time. The best way to do this, no question, is to offer SP rewards. There is literally nothing else that would compare as an incentive. I'm happy about the change, I feel like I wont have to go out of my way to kill something since I do that every time I log on anyways. I'm looking at is free SP whenever I play.
Darryn Lowe Golden Duck Frigate Mining Corp 38	Posted - 2016.04.14 20:08:57 - [1633] - Quote I can't understand the logic behind all the negativity for this feature. I'm quite keen on reducing the single most tedious aspect of Eve Online, that of course is training. I can't see any harm whatsoever to the gameplay of Eve with this feature. You still have to select your skills you want to train, you still have to train the other skills in order to train your desired skills all this feature does is reduce the time of those skills. How is this a bad thing? To all those who complain that it forces you to play Eve Online daily... ummmmm... so you're complaining about a game mechanic that ENCOURAGES people to play daily but does NOT force them to play daily when you yourself clearly don't play Eve Online much anyway because clearly you're not playing daily. Why are you even here? Why do you even have an account? I'm going to really enjoy this feature. Getting 10,000 skill points daily simply for having rats shoot at me while I'm mining is no skin off my nose at all.
Cookiesofdoom State Protectorate Caldari State 0	Posted - 2016.04.14 20:12:33 - [1634] - Quote I really hope the devs read this: As a person who has a background in psychology, multiple game experiences, and is currently still a newbro in eve. I think this idea has a lot of potential for new player retention, but it must be implemented carefully to not destroy the current balance of things. The problems that come along with adding an incentive to anything is that it eliminates the intrinsic value of the task by placing an internal motivator on it. How this applies to eve is that this may motivate people to only log on for the rewards. Also it may facilitate burnout of the game. However as a newbro I think that this system would be useful to help bridge the massive skill point gap between new and old players and also the gap between the newbro and accessing deeper and more engaging content. To implement this system correctly (If you disagree I am more than willing to engage more about the reasons why) there must be a few guidelines that must be done: Implement this system specifically for the newbro by putting a skillpoint cap that these missions will no longer be accessible: I'm thinking around 10-15m sp. 10-15 million sp allows for the individual to still have to put enough time in his character and invest in it but also it's not enough that later level players will feel slighted. The secondary benefit is that players already invested in the game and enjoy it for it's intrinsic value wont feel like that's being taken away from them. Limit the amount of daily's one can do to 1 per account and 1 daily mission per day. In total 1 mission per day, regardless of what type of daily it is. But also in contrast provide a daily for each of the different career paths. So for miner: mine x amount of ore or gas. For a pirate: Engage in a fight in lowsec. For a hauler: Haul an item from one station to another. But have doing one of these mission lock the others out. This is to reduce the feeling the neccessity to engage in tasks they don't want to do. For example: If I enjoy pvp I don't want to feel like I have waste time to haul something everyday less I miss out on 10k sp. By providing a daily for each career path it allows for people to continue to specialize in the field that they enjoy without feeling forced into activities they don't want to do. So overall I think this could be a good method to provide player retention but only if it is focused on the new players and getting them up to speed. Adding this to all players would remove the time based progression system that many EVE players come to enjoy and one of the heavily motivating factors that keep the population in the game.
Advenat Bedala Facehoof Out of Sight. 151	Posted - 2016.04.14 20:36:02 - [1635] - Quote Darryn Lowe wrote: I can't understand the logic behind all the negativity for this feature. I'm quite keen on reducing the single most tedious aspect of Eve Online, that of course is training. I can't see any harm whatsoever to the gameplay of Eve with this feature. You still have to select your skills you want to train, you still have to train the other skills in order to train your desired skills all this feature does is reduce the time of those skills. How is this a bad thing? To all those who complain that it forces you to play Eve Online daily... ummmmm... so you're complaining about a game mechanic that ENCOURAGES people to play daily but does NOT force them to play daily when you yourself clearly don't play Eve Online much anyway because clearly you're not playing daily. Why are you even here? Why do you even have an account? I'm going to really enjoy this feature. Getting 10,000 skill points daily simply for having rats shoot at me while I'm mining is no skin off my nose at all. 1) CCP breaking their word 1st time since very very long. words from official devblog: Quote: ItGÇÖs very important to note here that this means all the skillpoints available to buy on the market in EVE will have originated on other characters where they were trained at the normal rate 2) Bad experience from other games. It's been before - dailies that ruin some aspects of game or even entire game. 3) Grind is boring. And you'll have to grind for SP. For comparison +5 implants give 7.56024 = 10800 SP/day Reward simply too big. 4) Not universal daily. Some people don't shoot red crosses. And even more arguments but for me 1st one is enough
Lexiana Del'Amore Nouvelle Rouvenor Spaceship Bebop 189	Posted - 2016.04.14 20:38:07 - [1636] - Quote much ado about nothing...
Shallanna Yassavi Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 134	Posted - 2016.04.14 20:44:25 - [1637] - Quote There was some article in some engineering publication I read a while ago, about uniqueness and the drive to conform to what everyone else is doing. The short version of this is: Someone creates something. Product, service, whatever. It's unique. It does something. It does it pretty well, but isn't very good at making money. It also applies to music (what's the subject and message of most songs?), TV shows (different faces, same stupid jokes) , and games (stupid cheap grindfests full of paywalls, and little interesting content). They ask for advice and/or hire people to make more money with it. It's bland and generic, usually about cutting costs, or "appealing to a broader audience." Following this advice, they end up with something which is a lot less unique, and very often lose an important part of what made the original worth developing in the first place. A signature :o
Darryn Lowe Golden Duck Frigate Mining Corp 39	Posted - 2016.04.14 20:48:33 - [1638] - Quote Advenat Bedala wrote: 3) Grind is boring. And you'll have to grind for SP. For comparison +5 implants give 7.56024 = 10800 SP/day Reward simply too big. 4) Not universal daily. Some people don't shoot red crosses. And even more arguments but for me 1st one is enough I still call bollocks. You're still gaining skill points in the normal way this just adds 10,000 SP per day. Have I missed something? Your so called "grind" is literally just kill a rat and gain 10,000 SP every 22 hours. It's not like it's going to break the bank or anything. Hell, I don't actively attack rats. I mine and while sitting in belt I have my drones out. They go out and attack rats. So they'll kill one rat and I get 10,000 SP. It's not a grind for me like trying to gain kudos with a station in order to reduce tax on refining. THAT was a grind. This is just a nice little extra for me doing what I normally do.
Indahmawar Fazmarai 5047	Posted - 2016.04.14 20:50:01 - [1639] - Quote Malcanis wrote: Mister Ripley wrote: Ravcharas wrote: I agree. And I'm quite against this daily opportunity implementation, I think it'll hurt the game. However, it needs still be pointed out that in multiplayer games players enable gameplay for each other. That's true for Eve and it's true for TF2 and it's true for World of Tanks. Paying or not, there's at least a theoretical point of critical player mass, below which the game simply wither away. So in some sense the game needs to push or prod everyone to some extent, to encourage whatever behaviour is deemed to be positive for the game eco system as a whole. True. This has already been pointed out alot of times in this thread. But shouldn't it be the gameplay that makes you want to play and not some psychological trick? CCP used to believe this, yes. They've been behind the power curve for years and made a understandable but eventually wrong choice when prioritizing their limited resources.
Chi Aki Event Horizon Expeditionaries Apocalypse Now. 0	Posted - 2016.04.14 20:54:29 - [1640] - Quote I have concerns that a task based, daily SP reward per toon will drive eve play into a shopping list mentality, with the focus on the individual. I see this as a bad thing. A lot of eve play is spontaneous and situational - something unusual comes up and it generates a momentum all of its own. Reds turn up, a wormhole is found, a site is scanned, a good market deal or contract appears, even someone special logs in! changes what you may do in eve on any given day. With daily SP rewards - I have concerns that it will have a big impact on HOW people play and interact with others, to only get a little reward. "Nope i cant do that cool thing/pvp fleet/move op/wormhole dive/run boosts for my friends/Corp because I haven't finished rotary dialing through my alts.... " Daily rotary dialing of alts is also tedious and those doing it will feel happy to do it, yet exhausted by it and seek to 'get it out of the way' in the easiest, most painless way possible (and hence has no meaning). Those boycotting it because their eve play is already meaningful and busy, will feel vaguely like they are missing out and will see people around them become unavailable due to this 'feature' for the first hour? of their time. I liked how it was put by Cookiesofdoom: Quote: The problems that come along with adding an incentive to anything is that it eliminates the intrinsic value of the task by placing an internal motivator on it. How this applies to eve is that this may motivate people to only log on for the rewards. Also it may facilitate burnout of the game. No 'Daily rewards' for EVE per toon, please.
Terranid Meester Tactical Assault and Recon Unit 366	Posted - 2016.04.14 22:10:19 - [1641] - Quote Malcanis wrote: CCP used to believe this, yes. They should rename themselves PPU as this idea stinks to high heaven. No longer are CCP unique, now they just follow the herd. Sad.
Vasama Nosferatu Security Foundation 26	Posted - 2016.04.14 22:22:06 - [1642] - Quote CCP is doing this all wrong. How about if it would be made so that unless you do the daily you would slowly deteriorate the existing skill points and by doing the daily you could hold to current SP level :). Seriously I don't like the idea of daily. Some solutions how a new player could gain SP little faster would be welcomed but generic grind like that - no thank you. If the daily is introduced I just wonder how many accounts will be unsubed due it, I see it as bigger threat to the game than walking stations. Does anyone remember why Hilmar apologized the players back then? Vasama
Erihn Sabrovich 10	Posted - 2016.04.14 22:52:14 - [1643] - Quote Vasama wrote: CCP is doing this all wrong. How about if it would be made so that unless you do the daily you would slowly deteriorate the existing skill points and by doing the daily you could hold to current SP level :). Seriously I don't like the idea of daily. Some solutions how a new player could gain SP little faster would be welcomed but generic grind like that - no thank you. If the daily is introduced I just wonder how many accounts will be unsubed due it, I see it as bigger threat to the game than walking stations. Does anyone remember why Hilmar apologized the players back then? Vasama Well, having a slow SP decay when you don't play could be a good idea too... but it should be something like "after 1-2 month without connecting, begin to lose 0.0001% SP per day/week/..." In other words, a "grace period" big enough to allow it to not be punnitive for people caugh up by RL and you should lose more if you've more SP. Lost SP should be done beginning with the skills using the highest multiplicator first (harder to learn means easier to forget) But it's not incompatible with some way to GAIN SP when you're active... The problem with the daily as is is that you've only one single way of getting these SP... It's no problem for miners/PvE who do the resquested activity anyway, should be no problem for PvP who can do it easily but there should be something for indus/traders/haulers - haulers : allow to complete when you're doing X jumps - traders : allow to complete when you're setting up/modifying X BO/SO - Indust : allow to complete when you are refining/researching/building or when you're doing X PI interractions - Explorer : allow to complete when you scan X signatures All these should also have the "kill one rat" option available (which usually requires less time) but are alternatives which would allow to do the daily without resorting to something they don't usually do And, it's no grind... In EVE, grind is - when you grind some repuation for some NPC station (for trading/reprocess and, before, jumpclones) - when you try to get enough LP or ISK to buy some ship/module/... These are grinds, doing something again and again, for several hours, day after day... to get your reward after a long process. Heve, we are speaking about a fast action which will only take several minutes and which bring immediate result (more SP each time you do the daily) If people unsub because of this, well, that means that they are wrong in their way of thinking about EVE and it's better to have them leave, they are a liability and not an asset... EVE is not a second job, it's a game... if you take it too seriously, you'll only end up bitching, annoying the other players, contributing to create a bad mood in game...
Logix42 Taxation Damnation 193	Posted - 2016.04.14 23:04:50 - [1644] - Quote Do not. Repeat. DO NOT do this. Find a different way to motivate people to log on. One of the reasons I chose Eve is that there's no level grind. This is akin to the daily quests of WoW. Disgusting. Go beyond the edge of space... Explore
Chjna the Goose Flock 41	Posted - 2016.04.14 23:16:07 - [1645] - Quote Erihn Sabrovich wrote: ...EVE is not a second job, it's a game... if you take it too seriously, you'll only end up bitching, annoying the other players, contributing to create a bad mood in game... This will no longer be true. Adding chores like dalys to the game will make the game more like a job, resulting in people complaining and annoying the other players, contributing to create a bad mood in the game. And you do not find this wrong? Remove T2 BPOs
Terrorfrodo Renegade Hobbits for Mordor 724	Posted - 2016.04.14 23:16:23 - [1646] - Quote ITT: Bittervets raging because non-bitter players who still like to actually play EVE regularly, instead of mostly complaining how bad it is, will be rewarded. .
Erihn Sabrovich 10	Posted - 2016.04.14 23:29:20 - [1647] - Quote Chjna wrote: Erihn Sabrovich wrote: ...EVE is not a second job, it's a game... if you take it too seriously, you'll only end up bitching, annoying the other players, contributing to create a bad mood in game... This will no longer be true. Adding chores like dalys to the game will make the game more like a job, resulting in people complaining and annoying the other players, contributing to create a bad mood in the game. And you do not find this wrong? Dailies will only be felt as an obligation to people who take the game too seriously... Come on, if you don't stress on having these SP so much (normal training is not stopped), you'll do the daily when you've time... and don't care about them if you've something more interresting to do IRL. So, basically, the people who will be complaining are those who will complain anyway, who would create a bad mood anyway... nothing will change... Where the dailies will really change something, it's for those who spend some idle time doing whatever comes handy first : posting of Facebook or Google+, looking for random video on youtube, ... For these people, when they have 1/4-1/2h to spend, EVE will come in mind more often... and they'll login, initially to do the daily, but they'll spend their idle time on EVE... chatting with corp mate or doing some other things... It's about cometing over the idle time, not forcing people to do the dailies... It's not like "if you don't do the daily, you LOSE some SP", it's "if you do it, you're rewarded some SP"... The first is punitive, not the second one... And if you feel that "not being able to do the daily and not getting these SP is a punition", you should really reconsider the place EVE has in your life.
Circumstantial Evidence 300	Posted - 2016.04.15 00:19:46 - [1648] - Quote Recurring Opportunities is the name of a new button now live on the test server, in the upper-left-corner next to System Info and Route. It can be de-selected to hide it from view, if the ONLY opportunity available today, called the "Thrill of the hunt" does not appeal to your character. "Find and destroy any Hostile NPC to trigger a surge of skill points. Hostile NPCs can be found in many locations including asteroid belts, cosmic anomalies and around stargates. Gain: 10,000 skill points"
Lugh Crow-Slave 2092	Posted - 2016.04.15 00:28:37 - [1649] - Quote i thought i paid ccp to be able to play this game how i wanted. i didn't know i was supposed to get paid for playing how they wanted isn't that more of a f2p thing? Citadel worm hole tax
Sermin Enbur Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave 1	Posted - 2016.04.15 00:43:00 - [1650] - Quote I dont post on forums, hardly ever. But this.. Are you guys seriously trying to get rid of your players? To me, EVE has always been how you sort of never had to worry about skillpoints other than choosing implants to train slightly quicker or remapping to suit your long term skill plan. You get the idea, In-game actions and activity do not determine how fast one gets Skillpoints. All you need to worry is having fun and focusing on that while you passively accumulate Skillpoints, like many have already said, this change will change everything about that. It is a stepping stone to more and more actions you can do per day per character to accumulate more SP and before you notice, everyone has a long list of things to do daily so they dont lose out on that free SP and stay ahead. They then feel FORCED to do certain activities they might simply hate doing JUST to get that daily Skillpoint boost. (For example, I do not like ratting all that much. Do you want me to login everyday, grab my stealth bomber, quickly hop out and kill one rat just to get 10k sp while hating every single second of it? Is that your idea of "good and fun gameplay"?) Many here on the forums do not seem to understand that while this task does only take a minute to complete it is simply boring and not everyone likes to do it, and what about when one day you log in and realize you have 2-3 hours worth of "daily challenges" to complete from which maybe 1 or 2 are fun things to you? And you seriously couldn't even come up with anything better than "Kill any NPC for 10k SP" for this? Anyhow, EVE is a great game and I love the depth of it. I have loved it for 5 years now.. But this change if it is to happen, will force me to unsub my account as I fear for the future of this game if this is the direction you are planning on taking your game.
Princess Adhara University of Caille Gallente Federation 1	Posted - 2016.04.15 01:06:33 - [1651] - Quote - "Dessies down roaming fleet leaving in 5, join up!!!" - "How long will that take? My daily will reset in an hour, I don't wanna miss it... nevermind, I'll try to join you tomorrow, have fun guys!"
Memphis Baas 1459	Posted - 2016.04.15 01:12:51 - [1652] - Quote If you reward skillpoints for the first NPC kill (and in the future for the first asteroid mined, first production job, first exploration site probed, whatever), people will just feel pressured to log in daily for all of 10 minutes to get their fix. You don't get "activity" with this, they won't stay in space long enough to count as an "activity" or "PVP opportunity" or whatever. Right now, the most efficient PI interval seems to be approx. 24 hrs, so every day, we log in for about an hour to manage a bunch of planets real quick, then log off. Is that the activity you want? An even more horrible idea is to put the 10,000 skill points into a mini-injector item, and set it up as loot with a chance to drop from any of the activities you want to include (mining, whatever). If you want to keep it 1 per day, then create a hidden flag and reset it globally at every server reboot. So this would still give 10,000 points per day, but it could be HOURS before it finally drops, for any given character. Thus, potential HOURS of "activity." Also, reduced benefits for veterans (3,000 points if over 80m SP, the same as the full skill injectors penalties). We'll hate you forever for implementing it this way, I can pretty much promise that. Since PVE is an ISK-making activity, and PVP is the meat of the game, why don't you guys revamp the ship insurance system to reward newbies (and to a lesser extent veterans) who lose their ships in PVP? You could reward a 1-day newbie who loses a frigate while actually tackling someone enough skillpoints to let them increase Navigation, CPU Management, or Propulsion Jamming by 1 point and become a more effective newbie. It would be pretty awesome for them, as they can't afford to buy full skill injectors anyway. You can also reward the veterans who lose their ships, so at least there's some consolation benefit from participating in PVP even if you lose. Call it "learning from your mistakes" bonus or whatever. Bit of an incentive to undock, even if the odds are unfavorable; they'll probably lose the ship (but that's covered by the alliance SRP anyway, right?), but they gain some skillpoints, however few. Also, if you revamp the ship insurance to give SP instead of ISK, you're no longer pumping millions of ISK into the game. Insurance is a faucet, right?
FT Diomedes The Graduates 2497	Posted - 2016.04.15 01:34:58 - [1653] - Quote Terrorfrodo wrote: ITT: Bittervets raging because non-bitter players who still like to actually play EVE regularly, instead of mostly complaining how bad it is, will be rewarded. Not at all. I play every day that I can, I just don't like to be told HOW to play. CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.
Ms Michigan Aviation Professionals for EVE The Ditanian Alliance 72	Posted - 2016.04.15 01:44:34 - [1654] - Quote 1) I do not like the 10k SP daily - Instead make it a weekly range and say 70k SP. Reason: People with RL obligations miss out. You said you wanted it to accessible to all...this excludes them. Again, give players a week range to complete the "dailys" so that way if RL interferes, this doesn't turn into a punishment like the 24 hour skill queue was. :( If you liked that one...you may not like the next one. You are warned... 2) Consider only allowing characters with low SP take advantage of this. Anyone with say 100m SP and up does not get the SP boost. This will help newbs catch-up as well as ALTs. I get this isn't fair to all and misses your point about getting people to log in daily, but truth be told, most players at high skill point levels like myself don't need/want that sort of incentive; we are either here or not. Instead MAYBE make the incentive for over 100m SP be rare veteran items that are not seeded, much like the Mystery code. Don't make the items lame, make them cool that we can bank "Veteran Points" for. Rare ship skins, clothes, modules; maybe an LP shop for Vets, much like we were supposed to have our own station for high SP players. Please consider rewarding veterans of EVE more in a different way with the daily's. Thanks - flame on.
elitatwo Eve Minions The-Company 1153	Posted - 2016.04.15 01:45:11 - [1655] - Quote Erihn Sabrovich wrote: Dailies will only be felt as an obligation to people who take the game too seriously... Come on, if you don't stress on having these SP so much (normal training is not stopped), you'll do the daily when you've time... and don't care about them if you've something more interresting to do IRL... You do not seem to quite comprehend what is happening. Let me elaborate. A daily 10000 skillpoints results in 100.000 skillpoints in 10 days and 300.000 in 30 days, just for the kids in middle-school that have time all days, every day. Noobies complain about "veterans" because we have read a book called Engineering from cover to cover and they didn't. That is like complaining about a teacher that knows all the answers to a surprise math quiz in 7th grade. All those poor students will "NEVARRhhh" catch up to that teacher, best to make a government issued training program for babies, so they don't have to "endure" that horrible lifetime experience on their own. Eve Minions is recruiting. Learn from about pvp, learn about ships and how to fly them correctly. Small gang and solo action in high, low and nullsec and w-space alike. We will teach you everything you need and want to know.
Ms Michigan Aviation Professionals for EVE The Ditanian Alliance 72	Posted - 2016.04.15 01:53:24 - [1656] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: Evander Armistice wrote: Hi CCP Rise, I understand that the goal is more log ins and I personally have no issues with giving out small amounts of sp to encourage it. I just wish you would introduce a more elegant way to do it. 10k for the first npc kill seems very clunky and "un-Eve". I wish you would find a better avenue to reward log ins. Love what you have done in the past, I think you can do better with this. Thanks for reading The whole reason why this idea is trash is because rewarding log-ins is stupid. We should log-in because the product is deserving of our time. Not because some specific mechanic is based on logging in. More people log in right now because there is fun to be had in the game with the war. Once that war is over, what will be the reason? It should not be an artificial reason like a daily. Actually Frostys - once the goons war is over, I think a lot of people will log in more and enjoy null sec not worrying about the Goons kicking their sandcastle over before they even put their first wall up. Maybe it might even be like the old days with small groups of 20-30 people setting out to claim SOV. Just sayin!
Lugh Crow-Slave 2097	Posted - 2016.04.15 01:57:52 - [1657] - Quote FT Diomedes wrote: Terrorfrodo wrote: ITT: Bittervets raging because non-bitter players who still like to actually play EVE regularly, instead of mostly complaining how bad it is, will be rewarded. Not at all. I play every day that I can, I just don't like to be told HOW to play. why do i feel like the people arguing for this are not arguing the same points we are against it -SP for new bros is fine ok i dont care about SP -you are just lazy no i just play my own way -its free SP congrats then give it to me no matter what i do - it just gives ppl who play sp whats wrong with that its only giving ppl who play one way the sp - its one rat its not the end of the wold i dont care about this rat i care about the president this sets Citadel worm hole tax
Igniskhin Omerta Vita 10	Posted - 2016.04.15 02:27:14 - [1658] - Quote 8 years ago I stopped playing "theme park MMOS" that required daily activity because I no longer had time with 2 jobs and my first child on the way. So I started this character in Eve. It was great, I would call my wife on break, have her go into my account and update skill training. or having her target and start mining the next roid in the . A lot of things have changed in eve, but it has always been a SANDBOX, not a theme park. CCP you forced us to create our own content, and now your going to start spoon feeding it to us? If you are hell bent on giving us daily quests, dailies, or what ever the final name will be, at least force players to do the things that make eve so unique. instead of having them destroy 1 NPC, have them attack an industrial ship in a .5 system. reward them for getting into PVP in a .4 system mine out a roid rock build a frigate get on a kill mail with 200 other player ship spin 400 times complete a 60 jump trip with 20K m3 cargo get blown up by NPC sentry turrets (come on, you know you've had it happen to you as well) kill (or lose) 3 ships in pvp in 24 hours bump a freighter for 5 minutes ninja loot something with out getting destroyed get the pod, get the pod! just have them play eve As for t he 10K SP on completion... it just feels very backwards to take a game with over 10 years of no XP grind and throw that out the window.
Shallanna Yassavi Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 135	Posted - 2016.04.15 02:41:13 - [1659] - Quote If the daily were "go out and get podded", it would be a lot more interesting. That's something you don't want to bring +5s to, and the low-level implant market would go wheeeeee! A signature :o
Lugh Crow-Slave 2101	Posted - 2016.04.15 02:42:28 - [1660] - Quote Shallanna Yassavi wrote: If the daily were "go out and get podded", it would be a lot more interesting. That's something you don't want to bring +5s to, and the low-level implant market would go wheeeeee! would it? i would just stay in a dumb clone untill i needed to swap then go to jita in a pod and send a duel request Citadel worm hole tax
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 2772	Posted - 2016.04.15 02:43:21 - [1661] - Quote Igniskhin wrote: reward them for getting into PVP in a .4 system mine out a roid rock build a frigate get on a kill mail with 200 other player ship spin 400 times complete a 60 jump trip with 20K m3 cargo get blown up by NPC sentry turrets (come on, you know you've had it happen to you as well) kill (or lose) 3 ships in pvp in 24 hours bump a freighter for 5 minutes ninja loot something with out getting destroyed get the pod, get the pod! So out fo your list, I got Kill your alt in .4 Mine even if you don't want to so it's as stupid as the rat Build a frigate which is also just as stupid as the rat if you are not an indy guy. Hell even for them it might be a pain if they have no free production slots. Those killmails rarer than you probably imagine (this character you post on never gopt on one) AFK play really need to be rewarded? jumping abck and forth the same gate in a pair of system at the ass-end of the galaxy is really much more interesting than killing a rat. Let's sacrifice a rookie ship because why not? Let em kill my alt 2 more time after the first one time for the first point Can't trigger this as CCP's code does not know who is bumping and who is getting bumped. Imma ninja loot from my alt Imma pod my alt. Holy **** man that was soooooooooo much better than the stupid rat idea. I really think you should post more of those idea.
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 2772	Posted - 2016.04.15 02:44:29 - [1662] - Quote Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Shallanna Yassavi wrote: If the daily were "go out and get podded", it would be a lot more interesting. That's something you don't want to bring +5s to, and the low-level implant market would go wheeeeee! would it? i would just stay in a dumb clone untill i needed to swap then go to jita in a pod and send a duel request It's like some of the poster rightfully against this idea are also so triggered into a fit of hate they forget to use their brain to think for even a second how an EVE player would skirt around their proposed rule...
Lugh Crow-Slave 2101	Posted - 2016.04.15 02:57:35 - [1663] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Shallanna Yassavi wrote: If the daily were "go out and get podded", it would be a lot more interesting. That's something you don't want to bring +5s to, and the low-level implant market would go wheeeeee! would it? i would just stay in a dumb clone untill i needed to swap then go to jita in a pod and send a duel request It's like some of the poster rightfully against this idea are also so triggered into a fit of hate they forget to use their brain to think for even a second how an EVE player would skirt around their proposed rule... i know and leave it to CCP to use their brains right for once to understand exactly how players will use this change Citadel worm hole tax
Side1Bu2Rnz9 Trojan Legion Goonswarm Federation 3	Posted - 2016.04.15 03:01:14 - [1664] - Quote CCP Rise wrote: Okay, let's see if I can provide some context for our decision to add daily opportunities to eve and maybe answer some of your bigger questions. Why Dailies? So first lets talk a little history. EVE had a daily logon incentive for most of it's existence: the 24 hour skill queue limit. Back in Phoebe, we removed those limitations. Now, at the time, we were of two minds internally. We didn't like the experience around being punished for not logging in to update your queue, but also knew that some of those logins might be leading to meaningful gameplay and we shouldn't lightly let go of them. We leaned to the side of a better experience and removed the limitations, hoping that the logins we were generating were fairly empty, rarely leading to more actual activity in the universe. Well, it turns out we were wrong about that. Now, with before and after data we can see that making it into the client is a huge step towards real activity, even if the reason for logging in in the first place seems artificial. So this leads us to where we are now, attempting to find ways to create more logins that also don't feel like such a punishment as the skill queue limitations did. This may not turn out to be the perfect alternative but that's what we're looking for. Have you ever stopped to consider maybe the meaningful game play decline is not because you introduces >24 hour training queues and more because the game "features" (aka jump fatigue, and fozzie sov) that people have been complaining about since their introduction? Seriously it's like you're trying to create more problems just in order to ignore your bigger ** ups.. I honestly have no idea why CCP seems to be soooo damn stupid and neglects to fix problems or just decides to ignore their customer base in favor of doing ** no body wants just because they can... NEWS FLASH CCP!! WE ARE YOUR CUSTOMERS! YOUR ONE JOB IS TO MAKE A GAME WE WANT TO PLAY. Creating "feature" that decrease that desire to play and then introducing "features" to force that play to cover up your failures is not only a terrible business plan, but utterly STUPID!
Lugh Crow-Slave 2103	Posted - 2016.04.15 03:10:49 - [1665] - Quote Side1Bu2Rnz9 wrote: CCP Rise wrote: Okay, let's see if I can provide some context for our decision to add daily opportunities to eve and maybe answer some of your bigger questions. Why Dailies? So first lets talk a little history. EVE had a daily logon incentive for most of it's existence: the 24 hour skill queue limit. Back in Phoebe, we removed those limitations. Now, at the time, we were of two minds internally. We didn't like the experience around being punished for not logging in to update your queue, but also knew that some of those logins might be leading to meaningful gameplay and we shouldn't lightly let go of them. We leaned to the side of a better experience and removed the limitations, hoping that the logins we were generating were fairly empty, rarely leading to more actual activity in the universe. Well, it turns out we were wrong about that. Now, with before and after data we can see that making it into the client is a huge step towards real activity, even if the reason for logging in in the first place seems artificial. So this leads us to where we are now, attempting to find ways to create more logins that also don't feel like such a punishment as the skill queue limitations did. This may not turn out to be the perfect alternative but that's what we're looking for. Have you ever stopped to consider maybe the meaningful game play decline is not because you introduces >24 hour training queues and more because the game "features" (aka jump fatigue, and fozzie sov) that people have been complaining about since their introduction? Seriously it's like you're trying to create more problems just in order to ignore your bigger ** ups.. I honestly have no idea why CCP seems to be soooo damn stupid and neglects to fix problems or just decides to ignore their customer base in favor of doing ** no body wants just because they can... NEWS FLASH CCP!! WE ARE YOUR CUSTOMERS! YOUR ONE JOB IS TO MAKE A GAME WE WANT TO PLAY. Creating "feature" that decrease that desire to play and then introducing "features" to force that play to cover up your failures is not only a terrible business plan, but utterly STUPID! to be honest at least where im at (and i may be the exception) activity both capital and sub cap went up with fatigue because we weren't afraid we would be dropped on by pl. and Fozzie sov as an idea wasn't bad but they didn't keep up on tweaking it like they saud they would rather they left a half done mess to go work on the next thing Citadel worm hole tax
Side1Bu2Rnz9 Trojan Legion Goonswarm Federation 5	Posted - 2016.04.15 03:26:32 - [1666] - Quote Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Side1Bu2Rnz9 wrote: CCP Rise wrote: Okay, let's see if I can provide some context for our decision to add daily opportunities to eve and maybe answer some of your bigger questions. Why Dailies? So first lets talk a little history. EVE had a daily logon incentive for most of it's existence: the 24 hour skill queue limit. Back in Phoebe, we removed those limitations. Now, at the time, we were of two minds internally. We didn't like the experience around being punished for not logging in to update your queue, but also knew that some of those logins might be leading to meaningful gameplay and we shouldn't lightly let go of them. We leaned to the side of a better experience and removed the limitations, hoping that the logins we were generating were fairly empty, rarely leading to more actual activity in the universe. Well, it turns out we were wrong about that. Now, with before and after data we can see that making it into the client is a huge step towards real activity, even if the reason for logging in in the first place seems artificial. So this leads us to where we are now, attempting to find ways to create more logins that also don't feel like such a punishment as the skill queue limitations did. This may not turn out to be the perfect alternative but that's what we're looking for. Have you ever stopped to consider maybe the meaningful game play decline is not because you introduces >24 hour training queues and more because the game "features" (aka jump fatigue, and fozzie sov) that people have been complaining about since their introduction? Seriously it's like you're trying to create more problems just in order to ignore your bigger ** ups.. I honestly have no idea why CCP seems to be soooo damn stupid and neglects to fix problems or just decides to ignore their customer base in favor of doing ** no body wants just because they can... NEWS FLASH CCP!! WE ARE YOUR CUSTOMERS! YOUR ONE JOB IS TO MAKE A GAME WE WANT TO PLAY. Creating "feature" that decrease that desire to play and then introducing "features" to force that play to cover up your failures is not only a terrible business plan, but utterly STUPID! to be honest at least where im at (and i may be the exception) activity both capital and sub cap went up with fatigue because we weren't afraid we would be dropped on by pl. and Fozzie sov as an idea wasn't bad but they didn't keep up on tweaking it like they saud they would rather they left a half done mess to go work on the next thing Yeah I don't disagree that these changes had some benefits but it also resulted in a lot of people I knew just losing interest in EVE and never logging back in. Also as you mentioned these changes could have been adjusted to make them playable but CCP decided to just ignore the problem and add bandaids instead of fixing/tweaking to problem away.
Lugh Crow-Slave 2106	Posted - 2016.04.15 03:37:17 - [1667] - Quote also i want to point out that when ccp changed the queue there were ppl who pointed out that it would lead to lower log ins (i wont lie i was all for it. but had you told me the fee would have been dailies... oh how i wish i could turn back time) ccp said they didn't believe that would be true. so to fix this issue they are adding in something that the player base is pointing out will be bad for the game Citadel worm hole tax
Mikkal Rune Ammatar Academy of Sciences 13	Posted - 2016.04.15 03:50:39 - [1668] - Quote IGÇÖm just going to have to learn to take skill points less seriously, so that it doesnGÇÖt bother me when I miss out on these little GÇ£rewardsGÇ¥. Because IGÇÖll be damned if CCP is going to tell me how to play this game.
Pryce Caesar Evil Young Flesh 66	Posted - 2016.04.15 04:02:21 - [1669] - Quote Side1Bu2Rnz9 wrote: Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Side1Bu2Rnz9 wrote: CCP Rise wrote: Okay, let's see if I can provide some context for our decision to add daily opportunities to eve and maybe answer some of your bigger questions. Why Dailies? So first lets talk a little history. EVE had a daily logon incentive for most of it's existence: the 24 hour skill queue limit. Back in Phoebe, we removed those limitations. Now, at the time, we were of two minds internally. We didn't like the experience around being punished for not logging in to update your queue, but also knew that some of those logins might be leading to meaningful gameplay and we shouldn't lightly let go of them. We leaned to the side of a better experience and removed the limitations, hoping that the logins we were generating were fairly empty, rarely leading to more actual activity in the universe. Well, it turns out we were wrong about that. Now, with before and after data we can see that making it into the client is a huge step towards real activity, even if the reason for logging in in the first place seems artificial. So this leads us to where we are now, attempting to find ways to create more logins that also don't feel like such a punishment as the skill queue limitations did. This may not turn out to be the perfect alternative but that's what we're looking for. Have you ever stopped to consider maybe the meaningful game play decline is not because you introduces >24 hour training queues and more because the game "features" (aka jump fatigue, and fozzie sov) that people have been complaining about since their introduction? Seriously it's like you're trying to create more problems just in order to ignore your bigger ** ups.. I honestly have no idea why CCP seems to be soooo damn stupid and neglects to fix problems or just decides to ignore their customer base in favor of doing ** no body wants just because they can... NEWS FLASH CCP!! WE ARE YOUR CUSTOMERS! YOUR ONE JOB IS TO MAKE A GAME WE WANT TO PLAY. Creating "feature" that decrease that desire to play and then introducing "features" to force that play to cover up your failures is not only a terrible business plan, but utterly STUPID! to be honest at least where im at (and i may be the exception) activity both capital and sub cap went up with fatigue because we weren't afraid we would be dropped on by pl. and Fozzie sov as an idea wasn't bad but they didn't keep up on tweaking it like they saud they would rather they left a half done mess to go work on the next thing Yeah I don't disagree that these changes had some benefits but it also resulted in a lot of people I knew just losing interest in EVE and never logging back in. Also as you mentioned these changes could have been adjusted to make them playable but CCP decided to just ignore the problem and add bandaids instead of fixing/tweaking to problem away. If people logged out and never logged back in over something as simple as this, can they be said to have been so invested in EVE Online in the first place? Is one change really all that is required for some people to quit and never look back? I find that rather disheartening, but perhaps I am just too new to Eve online as a whole. Dust had a system where players were rewarded skillpoints depending on what they accomplish in-game. Why is it so wrong in the main EVE game but perfectly fine over there?
NovaCat13 Seymourus and Co. 170	Posted - 2016.04.15 04:11:08 - [1670] - Quote Pryce Caesar wrote: If people logged out and never logged back in over something as simple as this, can they be said to have been so invested in EVE Online in the first place? Is one change really all that is required for some people to quit and never look back? I find that rather disheartening, but perhaps I am just too new to Eve online as a whole. Dust had a system where players were rewarded skillpoints depending on what they accomplish in-game. Why is it so wrong in the main EVE game but perfectly fine over there? Dust was designed to be that way Dust was free to play EVE was not designed to be that way EVE is not free to play
Lugh Crow-Slave 2106	Posted - 2016.04.15 04:17:46 - [1671] - Quote Pryce Caesar wrote: Side1Bu2Rnz9 wrote: Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Side1Bu2Rnz9 wrote: CCP Rise wrote: Okay, let's see if I can provide some context for our decision to add daily opportunities to eve and maybe answer some of your bigger questions. Why Dailies? So first lets talk a little history. EVE had a daily logon incentive for most of it's existence: the 24 hour skill queue limit. Back in Phoebe, we removed those limitations. Now, at the time, we were of two minds internally. We didn't like the experience around being punished for not logging in to update your queue, but also knew that some of those logins might be leading to meaningful gameplay and we shouldn't lightly let go of them. We leaned to the side of a better experience and removed the limitations, hoping that the logins we were generating were fairly empty, rarely leading to more actual activity in the universe. Well, it turns out we were wrong about that. Now, with before and after data we can see that making it into the client is a huge step towards real activity, even if the reason for logging in in the first place seems artificial. So this leads us to where we are now, attempting to find ways to create more logins that also don't feel like such a punishment as the skill queue limitations did. This may not turn out to be the perfect alternative but that's what we're looking for. Have you ever stopped to consider maybe the meaningful game play decline is not because you introduces >24 hour training queues and more because the game "features" (aka jump fatigue, and fozzie sov) that people have been complaining about since their introduction? Seriously it's like you're trying to create more problems just in order to ignore your bigger ** ups.. I honestly have no idea why CCP seems to be soooo damn stupid and neglects to fix problems or just decides to ignore their customer base in favor of doing ** no body wants just because they can... NEWS FLASH CCP!! WE ARE YOUR CUSTOMERS! YOUR ONE JOB IS TO MAKE A GAME WE WANT TO PLAY. Creating "feature" that decrease that desire to play and then introducing "features" to force that play to cover up your failures is not only a terrible business plan, but utterly STUPID! to be honest at least where im at (and i may be the exception) activity both capital and sub cap went up with fatigue because we weren't afraid we would be dropped on by pl. and Fozzie sov as an idea wasn't bad but they didn't keep up on tweaking it like they saud they would rather they left a half done mess to go work on the next thing Yeah I don't disagree that these changes had some benefits but it also resulted in a lot of people I knew just losing interest in EVE and never logging back in. Also as you mentioned these changes could have been adjusted to make them playable but CCP decided to just ignore the problem and add bandaids instead of fixing/tweaking to problem away. If people logged out and never logged back in over something as simple as this, can they be said to have been so invested in EVE Online in the first place? Is one change really all that is required for some people to quit and never look back? I find that rather disheartening, but perhaps I am just too new to Eve online as a whole. Dust had a system where players were rewarded skillpoints depending on what they accomplish in-game. Why is it so wrong in the main EVE game but perfectly fine over there? it wasn't one change it was a slew of changes combined with a lack of faith that CCP still respected its player base as it started talking with them less and less and began to side line the CSM even harder than it had in the past Citadel worm hole tax
Manic Velocity The Corp I Just Left 176	Posted - 2016.04.15 04:29:19 - [1672] - Quote CCP this is what you're doing to me: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPwkG2KEBjc @manicvelocity
Lugh Crow-Slave 2106	Posted - 2016.04.15 04:29:50 - [1673] - Quote Mikkal Rune wrote: IGÇÖm just going to have to learn to take skill points less seriously, so that it doesnGÇÖt bother me when I miss out on these little GÇ£rewardsGÇ¥. Because IGÇÖll be damned if CCP is going to tell me how to play this game. I'm not worried about you or me getting pulled in i'm worried about the adv player who is drawn to them. how long until there are so many to do that he turns down fleet to finish them Citadel worm hole tax
Lugh Crow-Slave 2107	Posted - 2016.04.15 04:44:15 - [1674] - Quote Manic Velocity wrote: CCP this is what you're doing to me: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPwkG2KEBjc don't forget its 22hrs not dailies so not only do you need to log on every day to do this no its far more manipulative you need to log in ever 22hrs ever second it takes you to do that is a second longer b4 you can run it again. rather than they reset at DT Citadel worm hole tax
NovaCat13 Seymourus and Co. 170	Posted - 2016.04.15 04:56:50 - [1675] - Quote Manic Velocity wrote: CCP this is what you're doing to me: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPwkG2KEBjc I feel this needs repeating.
Lugh Crow-Slave 2109	Posted - 2016.04.15 05:02:50 - [1676] - Quote NovaCat13 wrote: Manic Velocity wrote: CCP this is what you're doing to me: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPwkG2KEBjc I feel this needs repeating. i would keep quoting it if i thought ccp would watch it... or if i thought them watching it would change anything Citadel worm hole tax
elitatwo Eve Minions The-Company 1158	Posted - 2016.04.15 05:39:30 - [1677] - Quote Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: NovaCat13 wrote: Manic Velocity wrote: CCP this is what you're doing to me: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPwkG2KEBjc I feel this needs repeating. i would keep quoting it if i thought ccp would watch it... or if i thought them watching it would change anything Man I had this thought a while ago but sometime I really need to agree twice with you, like double-agree. Also very, very much agree with Manic here, couldn't be said better. EVERYONE QUOTE AND AGREE Eve Minions is recruiting. Learn from about pvp, learn about ships and how to fly them correctly. Small gang and solo action in high, low and nullsec and w-space alike. We will teach you everything you need and want to know.
Lugh Crow-Slave 2114	Posted - 2016.04.15 06:00:27 - [1678] - Quote elitatwo wrote: Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: NovaCat13 wrote: Manic Velocity wrote: CCP this is what you're doing to me: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPwkG2KEBjc I feel this needs repeating. i would keep quoting it if i thought ccp would watch it... or if i thought them watching it would change anything Man I had this thought a while ago but sometime I really need to agree twice with you, like double-agree. Also very, very much agree with Manic here, couldn't be said better. EVERYONE QUOTE AND AGREE any chance some one has the link to the other video made talking about why players feel so bad about this change? was a bit more scripted maybe we can get them both seen by ccp Citadel worm hole tax
Mikkal Rune Ammatar Academy of Sciences 13	Posted - 2016.04.15 06:11:55 - [1679] - Quote Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: any chance some one has the link to the other video made talking about why players feel so bad about this change? was a bit more scripted You mean this one?
Lugh Crow-Slave 2115	Posted - 2016.04.15 06:20:38 - [1680] - Quote wrote: wrote: Manic Velocity wrote: CCP this is what you're doing to me: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPwkG2KEBjc I feel this needs repeating. EVERYONE QUOTE AND AGREE any chance some one has the link to the other video made talking about why players feel so bad about this change? was a bit more scripted maybe we can get them both seen by ccp Mikkal Rune wrote: you mean this one? exatly m8 Citadel worm hole tax
Jeremiah Saken The Fall of Leviathan 559	Posted - 2016.04.15 06:23:09 - [1681] - Quote Manic Velocity wrote: CCP this is what you're doing to me: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPwkG2KEBjc First off all CCP wants to earn. For them more logins means more potential money. They are doing this game for some time now. It never attracted crowds. So they will implement mechnisms from other MMOs that will keep people to log on and maybe bring some new. PCU will grow, vets will leave, CCP will make money. "(...) I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas (...)" "Here in the garden of the arcane delights dark shadows overwhelm us and and we become blind..."
Lugh Crow-Slave 2115	Posted - 2016.04.15 06:34:54 - [1682] - Quote Jeremiah Saken wrote: Manic Velocity wrote: CCP this is what you're doing to me: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPwkG2KEBjc First off all CCP wants to earn. For them more logins means more potential money. They are doing this game for some time now. It never attracted crowds. So they will implement mechnisms from other MMOs that will keep people to log on and maybe bring some new. PCU will grow, vets will leave, CCP will make money. i don't think anyone is questioning the motives it was even brought up inn the link you sent Citadel worm hole tax
Lavayar Russian SOBR Dream Fleet 264	Posted - 2016.04.15 06:47:57 - [1683] - Quote Manic Velocity wrote: CCP this is what you're doing to me: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPwkG2KEBjc Doing my part P.S. Nice vid
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 17650	Posted - 2016.04.15 07:14:01 - [1684] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Shallanna Yassavi wrote: If the daily were "go out and get podded", it would be a lot more interesting. That's something you don't want to bring +5s to, and the low-level implant market would go wheeeeee! would it? i would just stay in a dumb clone untill i needed to swap then go to jita in a pod and send a duel request It's like some of the poster rightfully against this idea are also so triggered into a fit of hate they forget to use their brain to think for even a second how an EVE player would skirt around their proposed rule... Yes it's susceptible to cheap exploits, but compared to "warp to a belt and kill a single rat", what does 'cheap' even mean. "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
Lugh Crow-Slave 2116	Posted - 2016.04.15 07:19:06 - [1685] - Quote Lavayar wrote: Manic Velocity wrote: CCP this is what you're doing to me: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPwkG2KEBjc Doing my part P.S. Nice vid good man dot forget this one Citadel worm hole tax
Steijn Quay Industries 1060	Posted - 2016.04.15 07:46:34 - [1686] - Quote Pryce Caesar wrote: If people logged out and never logged back in over something as simple as this, can they be said to have been so invested in EVE Online in the first place? Is one change really all that is required for some people to quit and never look back? you say something as simple as this, but add this to other problems CCP have introduced and suddenly this collection of simple things outweighs any reason you had for playing the game in the first place.
Khan Wrenth Ore Oppression Prevention and Salvation 560	Posted - 2016.04.15 07:48:52 - [1687] - Quote Manic Velocity wrote: CCP this is what you're doing to me: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPwkG2KEBjc There's something about EvE that just breaks my ability to watch Youtube videos of it. Anybody else experience this? You try to sit there, watch the video, but reflexively, every once in a while you move your mouse cursor over and click+drag, because you want to ship spin and see a different angle on the beautiful ships. And of course, it's a video, all you do is pause it from clicking on it. I'm sure anybody watching me do this, without context, must think I'm completely nuts. "He keeps clicking on the video, pausing it, uttering a curse under his breath, then resuming the video. Why does he do this?" Not just with this video. Almost any video regarding EvE. I remember watching bomb run tutorial videos, and I kept doing it there too. And those videos showcasing Golems stomping people in nullsec? "Hmm, glare from the game's light source is ruining the view of the paintjob, just going to...clickpause....[bleep] I did it again...clickunpause...sigh...". Getting back to the disucssion at hand, however, the video touches upon the psychology of this and I'd like to emphasize that. This entire thing feels patronizing. It feels manipulative. It feels like the company is pulling our strings rather than letting us be. I'm sure if every individual sat here and thought about it, you could come up with a scenario from your past that had similar themes. There was something someone wanted from you. Or maybe there was something you were already going to do, but someone wanted more or wanted it sooner. For a quick and easy example, you're a teenager living with your parents. Today you're going to borrow the car and take the family's laundry to the laundromat, do some of your own errands, and come home. Promptly at 7:00am, your mother is knocking on your bedroom door, pleading for you to go out and to the laundry right now. For no reason, either. It's not good enough that you're doing it on your own time, you have to do it on her time. After some bickering about being able to sleep in on a Saturday, you're already agitated and awake. But now she's patronizing you, saying she'll give you a Reese's Fast Break bar if you do it right now. She takes a fishing pole and dangles it in front of your face while you're trying to just get 15 more minutes of sleep, dangit. You, as an agent of your life, now have less perceived control over your own actions. If you do it on her terms, you think to yourself about how your mother is still dictating what you do in your life. You resent surrendering that bit of your own agency, even if it is just one little bit. You worry about it becoming a trend. You worry about slipping down a slope where other people dictate bits of your life, and each bit diminishes you. If you don't do it, well, all the same errands happen, you just don't get the candy bar. And damn, those Reese's are good stuff. Or maybe the reward was using the car that night to take Jennifer Parker to the Lake. In a game about free will, choices, and consequences, this is enforcing a lose-lose scenario upon the players. Either we surrender a bit of autonomy, the cornerstone of the game, to get a reward, or we miss out on a "bell" of a reward so tempting even Pavlov would be impressed. We're not here to be your bit__s. But we feel like we are if we go along with it, and we feel like we're missing out on something significant when we don't. Lose-lose. Worse yet, we know you're purposefully manipulating us, making us feel patronized, and we resent you for it. Lose-lose-lose. Let's reverse this and turn the tables on CCP. CCP, let's take any random idea off the current front page of "Player Features and Ideas". The author of that idea is going to take a literal fishing pole, attach a business card sprayed gold with "PLEX" written on it, and dangle it in front of the faces of developers and managers at your company at random intervals while you're trying to work. The promise is that if you implement their idea, they'll plex two additional accounts for a year, and leave them AFK cloaky in null to boost PCU too. You can wave them off and disregard them. But tomorrow they're going to do it again. And again. And again. It gets annoying, doesn't it? Does it feel patronizing? And after you wave him off, you see him approach the desk of the dev a few feet away from you. And you think to yourself, "If that Dev does this guy's bidding, he's going to bring in more cash to the company, and he might even get recognition for it from the boss. Maybe even a raise." Now you're tempted. Not because of a reward. But because someone else might get ahead while you're sticking to your principles and refusing to go along with it. Hey, you have goals in your life. Retirement fund needs to be funded, kids need to go to college. Someone at the office is getting a year-end bonus. If there's a chance some extra dollars come your way... Now this isn't a reward, is it? It's a form of coercion. And you hate yourself for thinking about it. Because this has corrupted and diminished your autonomy, because they are corrupting the process involved. The reward is one of the most amazing MMO's ever made. The process should be making it even more amazing. Corrupting the process with a Reese's Fast Break diminishes the game, diminishes us, and diminishes you too. Let's discuss overhauling the way we get intel in EvE.
elitatwo Eve Minions The-Company 1160	Posted - 2016.04.15 08:24:42 - [1688] - Quote Mikkal Rune wrote: Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: any chance some one has the link to the other video made talking about why players feel so bad about this change? was a bit more scripted You mean this one? That's the one! Eve Minions is recruiting. Learn from about pvp, learn about ships and how to fly them correctly. Small gang and solo action in high, low and nullsec and w-space alike. We will teach you everything you need and want to know.
PAPULA Black Aces I N F A M O U S 88	Posted - 2016.04.15 08:52:14 - [1689] - Quote So what's the difference in doing missions for SP every 20 hours ? and doing missions and getting isk then with that isk buying SP's ? i see the same thing. We already have 3 months missions, they're called "ark missions" So for ark missions we have to log in every 3 months ?
Terrorfrodo Renegade Hobbits for Mordor 725	Posted - 2016.04.15 09:16:59 - [1690] - Quote Princess Adhara wrote: - "Dessies down roaming fleet leaving in 5, join up!!!" - "How long will that take? My daily will reset in an hour, I don't wanna miss it... nevermind, I'll try to join you tomorrow, have fun guys!" You meet rats on every roam at gates, or you warp into a belt while someone is on bio break. No problem and surely not a reason to skip a roam. Actually the FC would probably just warp the whole fleet into a belt during the roam to shoot rats so everyone gets their daily SP boost. .
Lugh Crow-Slave 2119	Posted - 2016.04.15 09:22:59 - [1691] - Quote Terrorfrodo wrote: Princess Adhara wrote: - "Dessies down roaming fleet leaving in 5, join up!!!" - "How long will that take? My daily will reset in an hour, I don't wanna miss it... nevermind, I'll try to join you tomorrow, have fun guys!" You meet rats on every roam at gates, or you warp into a belt while someone is on bio break. No problem and surely not a reason to skip a roam. Actually the FC would probably just warp the whole fleet into a belt during the roam to shoot rats so everyone gets their daily SP boost. right because the OP didn't allude to this becoming much more than one rat and its never spiraled ot of control in any other MMO when they see just how well it affects their hollow numbers Citadel worm hole tax
Lugh Crow-Slave 2119	Posted - 2016.04.15 09:23:58 - [1692] - Quote PAPULA wrote: So what's the difference in doing missions for SP every 20 hours ? and doing missions and getting isk then with that isk buying SP's ? i see the same thing. We already have 3 months missions, they're called "ark missions" So for ark missions we have to log in every 3 months ? doesn't have the same physiological affect on ppl anyway if it was the same thing there would be no need to add this Citadel worm hole tax
Lavayar Russian SOBR Dream Fleet 266	Posted - 2016.04.15 09:40:19 - [1693] - Quote Terrorfrodo wrote: You meet rats on every roam at gates, or you warp into a belt while someone is on bio break. No problem and surely not a reason to skip a roam. Actually the FC would probably just warp the whole fleet into a belt during the roam to shoot rats so everyone gets their daily SP boost. For god's sake! At the end of the day FC will be annoyed of doing this ****.
Skia Aumer Planetary Harvesting and Processing LLC Desman Alliance 255	Posted - 2016.04.15 10:14:53 - [1694] - Quote Valia Fournier wrote: Last, it's great that you gave us more insight into the project, which should have happened in your first post. But you took a LOT of feedback and changed....nothing. Fine, but you didn't tell us anything from 50+ pages of feedback that you were willing to look into changing. You just told us how we are wrong. Why solicit our feedback in the first place? This is the old way of CCP doing things, (post a feature, gather feedback, tell players how they are wrong rather than being collaborative) and it's extremely frustrating. This. CCP Rise wrote: We are taking your feedback seriously and if we don't make any changes before release we will absolutely be following up shortly after release with changes based on feedback and behavior. The whole community told you to go ** yourself, and you say "we push it down your throat anyway, but your feedback is appreciated". Such a hypocrite. CCP Rise wrote: ItGÇÖs very important to note here that this means all the skillpoints available to buy on the market in EVE will have originated on other characters where they were trained at the normal rate.** And a liar.
Hra Neuvosto FinFleet Northern Coalition. 389	Posted - 2016.04.15 10:22:50 - [1695] - Quote Manic Velocity wrote: CCP this is what you're doing to me: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPwkG2KEBjc Quoting a goodpost.
Axhind Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation 158	Posted - 2016.04.15 10:26:58 - [1696] - Quote Jeremiah Saken wrote: Manic Velocity wrote: CCP this is what you're doing to me: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPwkG2KEBjc First off all CCP wants to earn. For them more logins means more potential money. They are doing this game for some time now. It never attracted crowds. So they will implement mechnisms from other MMOs that will keep people to log on and maybe bring some new. PCU will grow, vets will leave, CCP will make money. You do realise that every single other MMO that introduce the dailies has gone down the drain? There is no example where it turned out good as it's a cheap ass psychological trick that in the end burns out people. You can pull that **** in RL where people have to eat but not in a game that is utterly optional and worst of all, in eve's case, costs 15Gé¼ per month to play. At best, absolutely best case scenario, they will see some increase in activity before the burn outs start outpacing it and crash the activity in the game. The best reading of this situation that I can make is that CCP is aware of how terrible this idea is but they have economic issues and need something to show of quickly. If they actually honestly believe that this is good for the game then it's serious time to start looking for alternatives as it's obvious that there is not much realism left there.
Jeremiah Saken The Fall of Leviathan 559	Posted - 2016.04.15 10:52:11 - [1697] - Quote Axhind wrote: Quote: First off all CCP wants to earn. For them more logins means more potential money. They are doing this game for some time now. It never attracted crowds. So they will implement mechnisms from other MMOs that will keep people to log on and maybe bring some new. PCU will grow, vets will leave, CCP will make money. You do realise that every single other MMO that introduce the dailies has gone down the drain? There is no example where it turned out good as it's a cheap ass psychological trick that in the end burns out people. You can pull that ** in RL where people have to eat but not in a game that is utterly optional and worst of all, in eve's case, costs 15Gé¼ per month to play. At best, absolutely best case scenario, they will see some increase in activity before the burn outs start outpacing it and crash the activity in the game. The best reading of this situation that I can make is that CCP is aware of how terrible this idea is but they have economic issues and need something to show of quickly. If they actually honestly believe that this is good for the game then it's serious time to start looking for alternatives as it's obvious that there is not much realism left there. Ofc I realise that. I did dailies in WOW. At some point I stopped with thought "What am I doing with my life"? I don't need that ***** mount I have dozens of them and using maybe 2...Then I seek for game without such things. I like sandbox and space, landed here. Now I feel like the sand in this sandbox is full of someone urine... People will fall into this. People always fall for sweet candies, but it ends with tooth decay. Do you think EvE playerbase is better than rest MMOs playerbases? Wrong. others about this "feature": Jonny Pew about dailies Neville about dailies "(...) I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas (...)" "Here in the garden of the arcane delights dark shadows overwhelm us and and we become blind..."
Roro Zoro The Scope Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2016.04.15 10:53:01 - [1698] - Quote Are there really people who are against this because they see EVE as a game that "everyone does progress equally"? That died with the skill injectors, now someone can drop 100$ and get a 5m skillpoint character day one. Or can farm isk 8 hours per day and buy millions of SP per month. 300k sp per month is like 600-700m isk per month, so its like 23m isk per day for killing a rat. They could give isk and it would be the same actually. The rewards is quite beefy, its true. I do get that daily "quests" feel like a chore though, but the "equal progress" argument is invalid.
Erihn Sabrovich 10	Posted - 2016.04.15 10:57:48 - [1699] - Quote elitatwo wrote: Erihn Sabrovich wrote: Dailies will only be felt as an obligation to people who take the game too seriously... Come on, if you don't stress on having these SP so much (normal training is not stopped), you'll do the daily when you've time... and don't care about them if you've something more interresting to do IRL... You do not seem to quite comprehend what is happening. Let me elaborate. (...) Noobies complain about "veterans" because we have read a book called Engineering from cover to cover and they didn't. That is like complaining about a teacher that knows all the answers to a surprise math quiz in 7th grade. All those poor students will "NEVARRhhh" catch up to that teacher, best to make a government issued training program for babies, so they don't have to "endure" that horrible lifetime experience on their own. Well, the dream of any GOOD teacher is to have their student reach the level where they are... Maybe not while they are taking lessons with them but after that, through higher studies or what they'll learn while working... (and yes, I'm a teacher... so I know what I'l talking about here ;-) )
Ria Nieyli 43591	Posted - 2016.04.15 11:06:41 - [1700] - Quote CCP Rise wrote: We are taking your feedback seriously and if we don't make any changes before release we will absolutely be following up shortly after release with changes based on feedback and behavior. Mate, are you out of your bloody mind? This is garbage reasoning, you know very well that people will start participating in the opportunity once it gets released because not doing so is too punishing, yet you're going to take that as a metric of the feature being successful? "slang" is shortened language for "shortened language"
Imigo Montoya Delusions of Adequacy Get Off My Lawn 130	Posted - 2016.04.15 11:09:41 - [1701] - Quote Jeremiah Saken wrote: First off all CCP wants to earn. For them more logins means more potential money. They are doing this game for some time now. It never attracted crowds. So they will implement mechnisms from other MMOs that will keep people to log on and maybe bring some new. PCU will grow, vets will leave, CCP will make money. More subscriptions or more PLEX means more money. The measurement of daily logins is only a simple to obtain metric that hints towards part of the health of the game. The problem with only using simple metrics is that they can easily be manipulated or misleading. As an example, one way to increase ARPDAU (Average Revenue pre Daily Active User) in a F2P game is to stop allowing non-paying players log in (I've literally seen this happen). This simple action can make ARPDAU go through the roof, but obviously it will mean that there won't be many people playing the game any more so the paying players won't be as enticed any more. Doing something like that in EVE Online where the players ARE the content can be incredibly detrimental to the game's overall health. Implementing a change in order to make one metric look better can have unintended consequences that destroy the game by discouraging the core players who are the bread and butter customers. The Star Wars: Galaxies NPE is a classic example. EVE players want meaningful and engaging choices in the emergent sandbox, not operant conditioning.
Demica Diaz SE-1 306	Posted - 2016.04.15 11:12:19 - [1702] - Quote Roro Zoro wrote: Are there really people who are against this because they see EVE as a game that "everyone does progress equally"? That died with the skill injectors, now someone can drop 100$ and get a 5m skillpoint character day one. Or can farm isk 8 hours per day and buy millions of SP per month. 300k sp per month is like 600-700m isk per month, so its like 23m isk per day for killing a rat. They could give isk and it would be the same actually. The rewards is quite beefy, its true. I do get that daily "quests" feel like a chore though, but the "equal progress" argument is invalid. I dont belive that majority who are against this daily quest feature is because skillpoint advantage or anything to do with skillpoint gain/loss. Many many have experienced daily quests in other mmos first hand and they know from experience what kind of cancer that is. Smart players know that daily quests is just machanic to exploit human nature and I am sickened that CCP is adding that feature while opening this topic just to pretend that they are listening. Lets face it, daily cancer is coming to EVE no matter what. For first time ever I spit on you CCP... and I never would have belived I would say that, ever.
Skia Aumer Planetary Harvesting and Processing LLC Desman Alliance 257	Posted - 2016.04.15 11:19:48 - [1703] - Quote Roro Zoro wrote: Are there really people who are against this because they see EVE as a game that "everyone does progress equally"? That died with the skill injectors Absolutely. They are ruining the game, one feature at a time. And every time they use this excuse like yours. "We made some creepy sucker punch, but the sky didn't fall. Let's do it again!" But finally, a straw will break the camel's back.
Marox Calendale Human League Eleven Signs Network 76	Posted - 2016.04.15 11:28:47 - [1704] - Quote CCP Rise wrote: Hi I'm here to give you guys a heads up that sometime early next week a small daily activity reward feature will be hitting Singularity and will hopefully be making its way to TQ sometime just after Citadel. As you guys surely know, having people in game and in space is great and we want to start promoting and rewarding activity a little more directly. The version of the feature we are planning to deploy first will be a simple 10,000 skill point reward that a character will receive the first time they kill an NPC ship every 22 hours (limited one character per account per day, chosen based on which character completes the task first). The skillpoints will go into your unallocated pool to be used however you like. You will find the status of your daily skill boost in the Opportunities info panel and you will also receive notifications to let you know when it becomes available. That's it for now. If this goes well we hope to expand in several ways, but more on that later! Feedback appreciate as always, CCP Rise for Team Size Matters Responding to feedback While I like the idea of this new feature I think 10.000 SP are way too much. Compared to normal skill training with optimal attributes it is like an additional 4 hours boost every day for just shooting 1 NPC! I think 1 hour so about 2.500 SP should be enough.
Lan Wang Knights of the Posing Meat FETID 2714	Posted - 2016.04.15 11:30:59 - [1705] - Quote PAPULA wrote: So what's the difference in doing missions for SP every 20 hours ? and doing missions and getting isk then with that isk buying SP's ? i see the same thing. We already have 3 months missions, they're called "ark missions" So for ark missions we have to log in every 3 months ? because you dont have to do missions to buy sp , you have to do missions to do extra sp, is it really that difficult to see your comparisons as 2 completely different things? FETID now recruiting pvp pilots & corporations \| lowsec pvp & piracy - Join FETID Loyalist to Angel Cartel & Serpentis
baltec1 Bat Country Pandemic Legion 17599	Posted - 2016.04.15 11:34:42 - [1706] - Quote Anize Oramara wrote: So you're saying his personal experience and reasons for doing something is... not true? What? Nobody ever lies on the internet.
Jeremiah Saken The Fall of Leviathan 560	Posted - 2016.04.15 11:39:19 - [1707] - Quote Skia Aumer wrote: CCP Rise wrote: ItGÇÖs very important to note here that this means all the skillpoints available to buy on the market in EVE will have originated on other characters where they were trained at the normal rate. And a liar. I told you guys it won't end with SP trading... That Rise sentence shows how valuable is our feedback and their promises. "ItGÇÖs very important to note here that this means all the skillpoints available to buy on the market in EVE will have originated on other characters where they were trained at the normal rate."- CCP Rise on SP trading. Dailies for SP soon...
Erihn Sabrovich 10	Posted - 2016.04.15 11:56:53 - [1708] - Quote Jeremiah Saken wrote: Skia Aumer wrote: CCP Rise wrote: ItGÇÖs very important to note here that this means all the skillpoints available to buy on the market in EVE will have originated on other characters where they were trained at the normal rate. And a liar. I told you guys it won't end with SP trading... That Rise sentence shows how valuable is our feedback and their promises. CCP has to care about ALL OF ITS CUSTOMERS, not only about the older one... They look at stats and comments from ALL players and ponder the whole thing. They could have ended with decaying SP (after X time without connexion, you'd start to lose SP) but they didn't... They were even going to give the same amount of SP to every players and not a decreasing return like you can see with injectors.
Aydan Talvanen Bros Before Holes The Devils' Rejects 32	Posted - 2016.04.15 12:01:28 - [1709] - Quote CCP Rise wrote: ItGÇÖs very important to note here that this means all the skillpoints available to buy on the market in EVE will have originated on other characters where they were trained at the normal rate. I am SORRY to say this, CCP Rise. But you really are a LIAR.
Aydan Talvanen Bros Before Holes The Devils' Rejects 32	Posted - 2016.04.15 12:02:27 - [1710] - Quote Also this: "ItGÇÖs very important to note here that this means all the skillpoints available to buy on the market in EVE will have originated on other characters where they were trained at the normal rate. Player driven economies are key to EVE design and we want you to decide the value of traded skillpoints while we make sure there is one single mechanism that brings new skillpoints in to the system GÇô training." https://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/skill-trading-in-new-eden/
Jeremiah Saken The Fall of Leviathan 560	Posted - 2016.04.15 12:15:06 - [1711] - Quote Erihn Sabrovich wrote: CCP has to care about ALL OF ITS CUSTOMERS, not only about the older one... They look at stats and comments from ALL players and ponder the whole thing. They could have ended with decaying SP (after X time without connexion, you'd start to lose SP) but they didn't... They were even going to give the same amount of SP to every players and not a decreasing return like you can see with injectors. SP trading will do very little to recruit new players because they were not the target of the feature. Instead completely revamp whole XP system idea they add 1 item they can made RL money on. So it's not all customers (or all if they spend RL money...). Not to mention players can make ISK without effort and risk by SP farms. 20 mil for 1,5 minute of work doing dailies. Soooo hardcore game. "ItGÇÖs very important to note here that this means all the skillpoints available to buy on the market in EVE will have originated on other characters where they were trained at the normal rate."- CCP Rise on SP trading. Dailies for SP soon...
Warmonger Simon Trinity Alpha Zero 18	Posted - 2016.04.15 12:26:06 - [1712] - Quote Aydan Talvanen wrote: There's more: "ItGÇÖs very important to note here that this means all the skillpoints available to buy on the market in EVE will have originated on other characters where they were trained at the normal rate. You should really stop quoting this as you have no data on how much SP has already been lost with injectors so tehnically RIse might be right that every SP on market will have originated as it would have been trained at normal rate.
Jeremiah Saken The Fall of Leviathan 560	Posted - 2016.04.15 12:30:47 - [1713] - Quote Warmonger Simon wrote: Quote: "ItGÇÖs very important to note here that this means all the skillpoints available to buy on the market in EVE will have originated on other characters where they were trained at the normal rate. You should really stop quoting this as you have no data on how much SP has already been lost with injectors so tehnically RIse might be right that every SP on market will have originated as it would have been trained at normal rate. No they won't. Now they will be generated separately by doing dailies. Edit: and don't worry until SP farms are profitable there won't be any deficiency of product. "ItGÇÖs very important to note here that this means all the skillpoints available to buy on the market in EVE will have originated on other characters where they were trained at the normal rate."- CCP Rise on SP trading. Dailies for SP soon...
Aydan Talvanen Bros Before Holes The Devils' Rejects 33	Posted - 2016.04.15 12:47:48 - [1714] - Quote Warmonger Simon wrote: Aydan Talvanen wrote: There's more: "ItGÇÖs very important to note here that this means all the skillpoints available to buy on the market in EVE will have originated on other characters where they were trained at the normal rate. You should really stop quoting this as you have no data on how much SP has already been lost with injectors so tehnically RIse might be right that every SP on market will have originated as it would have been trained at normal rate. That's one way to spin it. If we're being honest though, we have to acknowledge that SP rewards from dailies are being generated from thin air. And even if they consider the SP loss from injectors we would be against DAILIES. Dailies are the issue here. The attempt to psychologically force people to log in instead of making them want to login is the problem. The laziness of doing something that goes against everything EVE stands for as a MMO is the problem here. CCP should have an ounce of respect for their creation.
Ooohhmmm suicide b.y cop 0	Posted - 2016.04.15 13:05:57 - [1715] - Quote I've spoken my mind in other foras, so eveo should know aswell. My version of eve is one that: I log in and would stay hours and hours, same as I would be away for days, even weeks Having a game that made me have to be online every 22h not to loose out feels like a chore, not gaming for fun which is core of eve to me. This idea seems kind of desperate, and half arsed way of ramming down your idea of eve down the payers throats. Rather then your usuall, lets give em this to chew on update. Pros: You get players to undock (If they want the 15-17% added sp trained for the day) New players do get an even larger bonus to sp to start with... Cons: Players have to be awake ever 22h to make the most of bonus(Forcing the most hardcore to be up at every hour of the day ^^ ) Changing eve to forced gameplay (even worse then grinding isk imho) Even more "free" SP (This might be a pro aswell, jury is still out since the injector messs )
Henzo Enecha For a Few Finns More 6	Posted - 2016.04.15 13:07:39 - [1716] - Quote WTB CCP Rise's frozen corpse.
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 2776	Posted - 2016.04.15 13:10:50 - [1717] - Quote Aydan Talvanen wrote: Warmonger Simon wrote: Aydan Talvanen wrote: There's more: "ItGÇÖs very important to note here that this means all the skillpoints available to buy on the market in EVE will have originated on other characters where they were trained at the normal rate. You should really stop quoting this as you have no data on how much SP has already been lost with injectors so tehnically RIse might be right that every SP on market will have originated as it would have been trained at normal rate. That's one way to spin it. If we're being honest though, we have to acknowledge that SP rewards from dailies are being generated from thin air. And even if they consider the SP loss from injectors we would be against DAILIES. Dailies are the issue here. The attempt to psychologically force people to log in instead of making them want to login is the problem. The laziness of doing something that goes against everything EVE stands for as a MMO is the problem here. CCP should have an ounce of respect for their creation. This is taking for granted that nothing ever change which in a MMO is kind of silly to expect. What is true on day X can always be false later on. His quote was not a lie when it was made and won't be at least until the point where someone finish an opportunity and put the resulting SP into an extractor. If he knew or not that opportunity were coming and would reward SP is up to debate but unless we know he knew about it, calling him a liar would label devs from pretty much every MMO liars too.
PAPULA Black Aces I N F A M O U S 88	Posted - 2016.04.15 13:30:57 - [1718] - Quote So i tested this "daily" out on test server. If you kill an NPC anywhere you'll get SP's. This means that even if you out on a roam and kill gate npc's you'll get it, if you do a single level 1 mission, you'll get it, if you kill npc's on station, you will get sp. So it doesn't matter where or how, just kill an npc and you get SP.
Aydan Talvanen Bros Before Holes The Devils' Rejects 33	Posted - 2016.04.15 13:31:09 - [1719] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: Aydan Talvanen wrote: Warmonger Simon wrote: Aydan Talvanen wrote: There's more: "ItGÇÖs very important to note here that this means all the skillpoints available to buy on the market in EVE will have originated on other characters where they were trained at the normal rate. You should really stop quoting this as you have no data on how much SP has already been lost with injectors so tehnically RIse might be right that every SP on market will have originated as it would have been trained at normal rate. That's one way to spin it. If we're being honest though, we have to acknowledge that SP rewards from dailies are being generated from thin air. And even if they consider the SP loss from injectors we would be against DAILIES. Dailies are the issue here. The attempt to psychologically force people to log in instead of making them want to login is the problem. The laziness of doing something that goes against everything EVE stands for as a MMO is the problem here. CCP should have an ounce of respect for their creation. This is taking for granted that nothing ever change which in a MMO is kind of silly to expect. What is true on day X can always be false later on. His quote was not a lie when it was made and won't be at least until the point where someone finish an opportunity and put the resulting SP into an extractor. If he knew or not that opportunity were coming and would reward SP is up to debate but unless we know he knew about it, calling him a liar would label devs from pretty much every MMO liars too. "Player driven economies are *KEY* to EVE design and we want *YOU TO DECIDE* the value of traded skillpoints while we make sure there is *ONE SINGLE MECHANISM* that brings new skillpoints in to the system GÇô *TRAINING*." Doing something that goes against a KEY EVE design and breaking mechanics that made this game successful for 13 years is indefensible. Doing the exact opposite of what is a promise for 13 years makes you a liar. You can spin it all day, we can see through it.
Rivr Luzade Kenshin. DARKNESS. 2445	Posted - 2016.04.15 13:40:47 - [1720] - Quote Erihn Sabrovich wrote: Jeremiah Saken wrote: Skia Aumer wrote: CCP Rise wrote: ItGÇÖs very important to note here that this means all the skillpoints available to buy on the market in EVE will have originated on other characters where they were trained at the normal rate. And a liar. I told you guys it won't end with SP trading... That Rise sentence shows how valuable is our feedback and their promises. CCP has to care about ALL OF ITS CUSTOMERS, not only about the older one... They look at stats and comments from ALL players and ponder the whole thing. They do not care about the players, they care about the money you throw at them. But not any money, not the subscription anymore, they care more about the NES money, the money that they can grab easily without much effort put into it. This kind of daily rewards thing is the same: without adding any meaningful activity or new activity, they just want people to log in and do the same old things to get something. If they were interested in old and new customers, they would provide more activities and make the universe richer and more diverse in content. With this kind if daily implementation (and coming implementations), they do nothing to make the game better, they just want more money without having to do much for it. UI Improvement Collective My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Dagariane Squick Caldari Provisions Caldari State 0	Posted - 2016.04.15 13:41:50 - [1721] - Quote As a potential returning player this topic has me very interested in seeing how things turn out. I have been going back and forth on both sides of the argument but I feel as most of these arguments are invalid. LetGÇÖs start with CCP Rise. CCP Rise wrote: We want you to be able to collect this reward during a lunch break or a 10 minute period where your kids are in timeout but also want to make sure there's some real gameplay associated with it. ThatGÇÖs great and we appreciate you realize that time is somewhat limited and you don't want us to feel as though this has to be completed but your contradicting your motives for implementing this feature in your opening paragraph. CCP Rise wrote: We leaned to the side of a better experience and removed the limitations, hoping that the logins we were generating were fairly empty, rarely leading to more actual activity in the universe. Well, it turns out we were wrong about that. Now, with before and after data we can see that making it into the client is a huge step towards real activity, even if the reason for logging in in the first place seems artificial. Basically youGÇÖre saying the more logins you see, the more content that derives from them. Obviously that is true and I do agree but what do you consider actual activity in the universe? Logging in on a lunch break and killing a rat might be activity but what does it offer to the universe? There is no risk associated with this, no real personal investment, and no explanation for doing so other than get some fee SP. The people you are targeting this towards won't create your so called "real activity". Now on the other side of the fence the people who say dailies ruin all games need to step back and take a look at the motive for those dailies. Most dailies are done to gain a special currency or specific item/reputation etc. It's not the daily in itself that ruins the game, it is the reward for said daily. As everyone knows Eve doesn't follow the same concept as your traditional theme park MMO. It is an open world sandbox and you play the way you want but it revolves solely around one forum of currency, ISK. Yes there is LP and what not but itGÇÖs mainly ISK. Now I am not disagreeing with most of you on the SP reward. I feel as though SP should never be the reward to entice players to play the game. That is too strong of reward that most people will not ignore no matter how you look at it. Back to CCP Rise: CCP Rise wrote: Why Skillpoints? There's been a lot of feedback here that this kind of feature would be acceptable if the rewards were more monetary, either LP or ISK or something similar. There's a few reasons that doesn't really work and we feel pulled towards SP. I think the biggest one is that many people simply won't be motivated by LP or ISK, especially in the amounts we would be restricted to giving. SP simply has higher demand across more playstyles and player ages and that just makes it a more powerful incentive. Second big reason that we actually tried designs using item and ISK rewards and it quickly creates a lot of economic imbalances. Any time we are giving something away without much activity cost we are heavily sabotaging someone's gameplay. Whether it's because of devaluing LP, causing major inflation, or crashing item markets, it's all bad for you guys so we would rather avoid it. As most of you have stated SP = ISK, ISK = SP with the introduction of Skill Injectors/Extractors, and as most have compared the numbers it roughly equals around 13mil ISK for 10k SP. Honestly it is not that much to break the bank or crash the market but 10 - 15 mil ISK reward is enough for a newbie to buy some nice things. Think about 10 - 15 mil once a day over a week, thatGÇÖs enough for me not to care if I lose one or two ships in some "real activity". Now back to "real activity", lets reward players for doing what they enjoy doing instead of forcing them to do something you think is "real activity" when in fact itGÇÖs just artificial login numbers. Why not introduce a type of reward system for those who are logged in for longer than 10 mins as well as those who only have a few mins? How about rewards for those who complete difficult objectives? This is a game built around social gameplay, so letGÇÖs reward those who contribute whether itGÇÖs in group PVP or Incursions. In my opinion the best way to introduce a type of daily is to incentivize players to play the way they normally would without interfering with traditional gameplay. Also introduce other styles of play without the player feeling left behind if they are not completed. Here are a few examples: Missions - Daily - Reward for 1st mission completed each day - Reward increases depending on agent lvl and security space - Flat reward for all missions depending on agent lvl and space, i.e.: lvl4 encounter pays equal to lvl 4 mining, lvl2 mining pays equal to lvl2 trade. Incursions - Weekly - Reward for completion of 1st incursion during the week PVP - Daily - Weekly - Reward for 1st kill of another player (being on the kill mail) each day - Reward for killing x amount of players a week This is something you can extend to all "real activities" in Eve, marketing, exploration, production, etc. Balance it so the reward fits the risk and that the reward is for the individual and not shared. Create the system where the PVE Carebare will not sweat that he/she doesn't receive 10mil isk for not killing another player but that the Null Sec Pirate gets a reward for participating in killing 100 players a week, which creates your "real activity". This also helps those time limited people youGÇÖre trying to get to log in by letting them get on and do what they want. Lastly this will/can create more content by expanding rewards to large scale activities like incursions, or mass pvp battles which could draw others into trying these activities.
Aydan Talvanen Bros Before Holes The Devils' Rejects 33	Posted - 2016.04.15 13:51:31 - [1722] - Quote Dagariane Squick wrote: In my opinion the best way to introduce a type of daily is to incentivize players to play the way they normally would without interfering with traditional gameplay. Also introduce other styles of play without the player feeling left behind if they are not completed. Here are a few examples: Missions - Daily - Reward for 1st mission completed each day - Reward increases depending on agent lvl and security space - Flat reward for all missions depending on agent lvl and space, i.e.: lvl4 encounter pays equal to lvl 4 mining, lvl2 mining pays equal to lvl2 trade. Incursions - Weekly - Reward for completion of 1st incursion during the week PVP - Daily - Weekly - Reward for 1st kill of another player (being on the kill mail) each day - Reward for killing x amount of players a week This is something you can extend to all "real activities" in Eve, marketing, exploration, production, etc. Balance it so the reward fits the risk and that the reward is for the individual and not shared. Create the system where the PVE Carebare will not sweat that he/she doesn't receive 10mil isk for not killing another player but that the Null Sec Pirate gets a reward for participating in killing 100 players a week, which creates your "real activity". This also helps those time limited people youGÇÖre trying to get to log in by letting them get on and do what they want. Lastly this will/can create more content by expanding rewards to large scale activities like incursions, or mass pvp battles which could draw others into trying these activities. There's a much better way of doing it! How about a system of risk/reward that gives you freedom to try different things, fail, succeed, create content, learn from your mistakes and improve your gameplay skills instead of psychologically forcing you to login for a to-do list? Damn, that would be awesome wouldn't it? But... wait. It's already like this. What an amazing and unique game we have. For now.
FT Diomedes The Graduates 2508	Posted - 2016.04.15 14:14:09 - [1723] - Quote Honestly, folks, the only way to have a chance of having CCP listen is to complain about this publicly. On Facebook, on Twitter, at Fanfest, etc. Up until this idea was posted, I was honestly having as much fun as I have ever had in Eve. We're in the middle of an epic war, with literally thousands of players on each side doing everything they can to win, and CCP has to plant the seeds to make me hate this game. I've thought about Eve every day for over nine years. I've played every day that I could possibly get to a computer. Eve is not just a game. It is a social experiment. Well, daily chores don't have a place in a social experiment. You log in to be part of the experiment. Not to get some ***** cake, because you pressed a *** button. Quote:** ItGÇÖs very important to note here that this means all the skillpoints available to buy on the market in EVE will have originated on other characters where they were trained at the normal rate. I am really glad I am not going to Fanfest. The more I think about this, the more enraged I am. CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.
Shakira Akira Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 17	Posted - 2016.04.15 14:23:09 - [1724] - Quote Erihn Sabrovich wrote: CCP has to care about ALL OF ITS CUSTOMERS, not only about the older one... They look at stats and comments from ALL players and ponder the whole thing. They could have ended with decaying SP (after X time without connexion, you'd start to lose SP) but they didn't... They were even going to give the same amount of SP to every players and not a decreasing return like you can see with injectors. Except if you look at the trend in the video game industry, you will notice that games are leaning towards the instant gratification vice long term planning and forethought.. THE VERY REASON that the game EvE managed to survive because people that didn't want to play the kiddy games came to play here instead, where your actions really mattered.
Andrew Coperian InterSun Freelance 1	Posted - 2016.04.15 14:29:21 - [1725] - Quote TheInternet TweepsOnline TheInternet wrote: CCP Rise wrote: If you look at Citadel feature list you should not have any concerns about our commitment to the EVE sandbox and the hardcore nature of our game. Right, because magically teleporting everyone's stuff to the nearest lowsec station every time a citadel dies is SUPER HARDCORE, CCP Rise. Who could possibly have doubts? YES!!!!! My thoughts exactly. Ridiculous...
Lan Wang Knights of the Posing Meat FETID 2715	Posted - 2016.04.15 14:32:42 - [1726] - Quote they dont have to care too much about older players as they are the easier players to keep, its newer players they need to keep who dont have anything to lose if they quit the game, tbh im at a stage where ive invested too much time and money into the game to just quit, its something i would really need to think twice about. if i was a 2 month old player then id just unsub and move onto the next game. FETID now recruiting pvp pilots & corporations \| lowsec pvp & piracy - Join FETID Loyalist to Angel Cartel & Serpentis
Drago Shouna Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire 337	Posted - 2016.04.15 14:34:07 - [1727] - Quote Shakira Akira wrote: Erihn Sabrovich wrote: CCP has to care about ALL OF ITS CUSTOMERS, not only about the older one... They look at stats and comments from ALL players and ponder the whole thing. They could have ended with decaying SP (after X time without connexion, you'd start to lose SP) but they didn't... They were even going to give the same amount of SP to every players and not a decreasing return like you can see with injectors. Except if you look at the trend in the video game industry, you will notice that games are leaning towards the instant gratification vice long term planning and forethought.. THE VERY REASON that the game EvE managed to survive because people that didn't want to play the kiddy games came to play here instead, where your actions really mattered. With some of the temper tantrums in this thread some of them should go back to kids games. How some haven't got at the least a lengthy forum ban is beyond me after the abuse they are giving out towards the devs.
Lan Wang Knights of the Posing Meat FETID 2715	Posted - 2016.04.15 14:37:38 - [1728] - Quote Drago Shouna wrote: Shakira Akira wrote: Erihn Sabrovich wrote: CCP has to care about ALL OF ITS CUSTOMERS, not only about the older one... They look at stats and comments from ALL players and ponder the whole thing. They could have ended with decaying SP (after X time without connexion, you'd start to lose SP) but they didn't... They were even going to give the same amount of SP to every players and not a decreasing return like you can see with injectors. Except if you look at the trend in the video game industry, you will notice that games are leaning towards the instant gratification vice long term planning and forethought.. THE VERY REASON that the game EvE managed to survive because people that didn't want to play the kiddy games came to play here instead, where your actions really mattered. With some of the temper tantrums in this thread some of them should go back to kids games. How some haven't got at the least a lengthy forum ban is beyond me after the abuse they are giving out towards the devs. CCP loves forum pvp and and they are loving the tears, pretty simple FETID now recruiting pvp pilots & corporations \| lowsec pvp & piracy - Join FETID Loyalist to Angel Cartel & Serpentis
Tisiphone Dira New Order Logistics CODE. 762	Posted - 2016.04.15 15:14:09 - [1729] - Quote if I wanted to grind sp, I'd grind isk to buy injectors. And this 'go kill a belt rat' think is completely the wrong way to go about doing something that's already inherently awful If you MUST have a daily requirement for sp, have it be 'go agress another player in some way' which is a MUCH better way of doing this, it would get people engaging with one-other, even if it's only to game the system (lol rookie ship duels), that is then also ripe for 'shenanigans and tomfoolery'. WIN-WIN-WIN. CCP gets its desired daily log-ins for (reward), it makes the players (those without alts at least) engage with one another somehow, and it has a distinctly eve-flavoured twist to it compared to WoW.
Khan Wrenth Ore Oppression Prevention and Salvation 567	Posted - 2016.04.15 15:24:02 - [1730] - Quote Drago Shouna wrote: How some haven't got at the least a lengthy forum ban is beyond me after the abuse they are giving out towards the devs. The Devs are the living embodiment of "HTFU". They fly around in frigates with 100% resists because they earned it. Really. You can Phased Plasma L, but you can't phase a Dev. They're super chill, very friendly, and very forgiving of the dumb things people sometimes say under the cloak of the internet. Besides, in this power dynamic, they are essentially the Dr. Manhattan to our being basically everyone else in that movie. Do you get upset at ants that may or may not swarm at your feet or occasionally crawl onto your shoe? Let's discuss overhauling the way we get intel in EvE.
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 2777	Posted - 2016.04.15 15:27:22 - [1731] - Quote Khan Wrenth wrote: Drago Shouna wrote: How some haven't got at the least a lengthy forum ban is beyond me after the abuse they are giving out towards the devs. The Devs are the living embodiment of "HTFU". They fly around in frigates with 100% resists because they earned it. Really. You can Phased Plasma L, but you can't phase a Dev. They're super chill, very friendly, and very forgiving of the dumb things people sometimes say under the cloak of the internet. Besides, in this power dynamic, they are essentially the Dr. Manhattan to our being basically everyone else in that movie. Do you get upset at ants that may or may not swarm at your feet or occasionally crawl onto your shoe? It would be so hilarious of for just one day, the player really had to live by the HTFU rule on the forum. This thread would be down to like 19 post if that.
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 2777	Posted - 2016.04.15 15:33:40 - [1732] - Quote Lan Wang wrote: they dont have to care too much about older players as they are the easier players to keep, its newer players they need to keep who dont have anything to lose if they quit the game, tbh im at a stage where ive invested too much time and money into the game to just quit, its something i would really need to think twice about. if i was a 2 month old player then id just unsub and move onto the next game. This is something people forget about often. The time you already invested in a game act as an anchor against your departure. This can been seen for example in the long line of fantasy MMO that labeled themselves as wowkillers who presented nearly the same product with some better points. The playerbase is not as mobile as some people think it is. A lot of people would not even be able to "pack up and leave" which is why the un-sub threat don't matter as much as they could because in at least a large amount of case, the player never quit or come back later because he feel bad for abandoning X years of his gaming life.
Arline Kley PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 649	Posted - 2016.04.15 16:29:50 - [1733] - Quote So.. daily missions. Yet another nail in the difficultly coffin that EVE has been undergoing for the last few years, some of it much needed, others a little more troubling. EVE is a rarity in the gaming world - you permanently lose something when it goes boom. That doesn't happen a lot in other MMO's; you might lose time, but time is what you are already sinking into the game so you've not really lost anything as you still have everything you had when you died. Adding in daily missions where SP is giving out is a dangerous idea. Bonus ISK / Faction standings? I can live with. Not SP. You've historically tried to limit people creating massive amounts of alts merely for afk scouting/cyno purposes, which is a good thing - however this is now just another opening to get people to create them again. And what about us older players? The ones that had to toil hard for our skill points (I will openly admit I was part of the 900k SP era) over time, when we actually lost skill points and had to regain them? Do we get a nice big lump sump of SP to all those days that we missed out on this potential SP source? Of course we won't - that wouldn't be fair to the new guys would it. I'm a little.. tired.. of CCP treating new players with fluffiness. Its not becoming of the game that I, and many others, have come to expect. It would be better that they experience the cold and harsh galaxy that we have had to endure, rather than having things which are supposed to be a long term goal spoon-fed to them. Please - for the love of the Amarrian God, don't implement this feature within the game as is. It is inheriently wrong to hand out SP's for literally nothing. "For it was said they had become like those peculiar demons, which dwell in matter but in whom no light may be found." - Father Grigori, Ravens 3:57
Igniskhin Omerta Vita 12	Posted - 2016.04.15 16:40:18 - [1734] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: Igniskhin wrote: reward them for getting into PVP in a .4 system mine out a roid rock build a frigate get on a kill mail with 200 other player ship spin 400 times complete a 60 jump trip with 20K m3 cargo get blown up by NPC sentry turrets (come on, you know you've had it happen to you as well) kill (or lose) 3 ships in pvp in 24 hours bump a freighter for 5 minutes ninja loot something with out getting destroyed get the pod, get the pod! So out fo your list, I got Kill your alt in .4 Mine even if you don't want to so it's as stupid as the rat Build a frigate which is also just as stupid as the rat if you are not an indy guy. Hell even for them it might be a pain if they have no free production slots. Those killmails rarer than you probably imagine (this character you post on never gopt on one) AFK play really need to be rewarded? jumping abck and forth the same gate in a pair of system at the ass-end of the galaxy is really much more interesting than killing a rat. Let's sacrifice a rookie ship because why not? Let em kill my alt 2 more time after the first one time for the first point Can't trigger this as CCP's code does not know who is bumping and who is getting bumped. Imma ninja loot from my alt Imma pod my alt. Holy ** man that was soooooooooo much better than the stupid rat idea. I really think you should post more of those idea. CCP knows full well that we as players like to fist ** their game in ways we weren't meant to. here just one story from around the same time you created that character http://www.engadget.com/2012/06/22/eve-players-abuse-faction-warfare-to-produce-trillions-of-isk/ or this one from around the time i started playing http://www.engadget.com/2008/12/11/rumored-four-year-multi-trillion-isk-exploit-in-eve-online/ and many, many, many more... I dont care for dailies, on that we agree, but if CCP is going to force feed us content they might as well try and encourage players to do something they haven't done before. lastly, I only have 2 counter points to your list. 1. I know how rare 200+ kill mails are, but why are we going to make things simple (i also meant 20, not 200 but i know that means you have 21 players or 1 ice belt farmer with 21 accounts to shoot an alt) 2. I dont know if you've noticed or not, but ship spinning in station has an actual counter now that appears bottom center and counts the amount of times you actively spin the camera around the ship so its not an AFK activity. CCP implemented some time around the "show them the door" incarna fiasco
Fish Slapper Land of Confusion 0	Posted - 2016.04.15 17:03:36 - [1735] - Quote How about some random mechanism of bonus skillpoints for things players already do, not just some specified daily task. E.g., explorers opening a can sometimes get "you have just been awarded xxx skillpoints", or miners mining, or pvp activity, or anything. That way people can play the game the way they want and have an incentive to play more.
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 2777	Posted - 2016.04.15 17:10:20 - [1736] - Quote Fish Slapper wrote: How about some random mechanism of bonus skillpoints for things players already do, not just some specified daily task. E.g., explorers opening a can sometimes get "you have just been awarded xxx skillpoints", or miners mining, or pvp activity, or anything. That way people can play the game the way they want and have an incentive to play more. If it's random and not locked like a daily, it will not generate more log-ins which is their stated goal and will also be farmable by just doing the activity over and over again.
Axhind Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation 161	Posted - 2016.04.15 17:34:35 - [1737] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: Khan Wrenth wrote: Drago Shouna wrote: How some haven't got at the least a lengthy forum ban is beyond me after the abuse they are giving out towards the devs. The Devs are the living embodiment of "HTFU". They fly around in frigates with 100% resists because they earned it. Really. You can Phased Plasma L, but you can't phase a Dev. They're super chill, very friendly, and very forgiving of the dumb things people sometimes say under the cloak of the internet. Besides, in this power dynamic, they are essentially the Dr. Manhattan to our being basically everyone else in that movie. Do you get upset at ants that may or may not swarm at your feet or occasionally crawl onto your shoe? It would be so hilarious of for just one day, the player really had to live by the HTFU rule on the forum. This thread would be down to like 19 post if that. Ah yes. The feedback would so much more valuable if everyone was pathetic and had a psychological need to suck up to the devs. That would be super useful. Just like dreddit. Idea with feedback is to see opposing views. Of course, part of the idea is to also consider them but I guess that's too much to ask from today's CCP that seems to operate along the lines of "players should be happy we let them pay and if they complain it only means they are playing our game the wrong way". I would here by like to thank CCP for being so incredible nice and taking my money every month as there are clearly no others on the planet that would like to have it.
Lugh Crow-Slave 2139	Posted - 2016.04.15 18:42:23 - [1738] - Quote Tisiphone Dira wrote: if I wanted to grind sp, I'd grind isk to buy injectors. And this 'go kill a belt rat' think is completely the wrong way to go about doing something that's already inherently awful If you MUST have a daily requirement for sp, have it be 'go agress another player in some way' which is a MUCH better way of doing this, it would get people engaging with one-other, even if it's only to game the system (lol rookie ship duels), that is then also ripe for 'shenanigans and tomfoolery'. WIN-WIN-WIN. CCP gets its desired daily log-ins for (reward), it makes the players (those without alts at least) engage with one another somehow, and it has a distinctly eve-flavoured twist to it compared to WoW. so if they must do it it needs to fit into how you already find enjoyment in eve thats no better Citadel worm hole tax
Shallanna Yassavi Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 135	Posted - 2016.04.15 19:10:05 - [1739] - Quote FT Diomedes wrote: Honestly, folks, the only way to have a chance of having CCP listen is to complain about this publicly. On Facebook, on Twitter, at Fanfest, etc. Up until this idea was posted, I was honestly having as much fun as I have ever had in Eve. We're in the middle of an epic war, with literally thousands of players on each side doing everything they can to win, and CCP has to plant the seeds to make me hate this game. I've thought about Eve every day for over nine years. I've played every day that I could possibly get to a computer. Eve is not just a game. It is a social experiment. Well, daily chores don't have a place in a social experiment. You log in to be part of the experiment. Not to get some ***** cake, because you pressed a *** button. Quote:** ItGÇÖs very important to note here that this means all the skillpoints available to buy on the market in EVE will have originated on other characters where they were trained at the normal rate. I am really glad I am not going to Fanfest. The more I think about this, the more enraged I am. You could always come as zombies. Crumble up some chips and cheetohs all over your clothes, spill a couple of drinks on them, constantly moan something about "Just... one... more... Daily." A signature :o
Terranid Meester Tactical Assault and Recon Unit 369	Posted - 2016.04.15 19:15:28 - [1740] - Quote Drago Shouna wrote: How some haven't got at the least a lengthy forum ban is beyond me after the abuse they are giving out towards the devs. I don't know about you but we are not going back to the USSR. The devs who have planned this deserve every bit of bile directed at them for this abomination. I hope people at fanfest will tell them exactly what they think of dailies. If its announced on stage I hope it is accompanied by a large dose of booing.
Lugh Crow-Slave 2139	Posted - 2016.04.15 20:25:36 - [1741] - Quote Terranid Meester wrote: Drago Shouna wrote: How some haven't got at the least a lengthy forum ban is beyond me after the abuse they are giving out towards the devs. I don't know about you but we are not going back to the USSR. The devs who have planned this deserve every bit of bile directed at them for this abomination. I hope people at fanfest will tell them exactly what they think of dailies. If its announced on stage I hope it is accompanied by a large dose of booing. also to be fair when you look at the threads like NPC tax change or the fatigue change this one has been pretty civil. now sad thing is it's do to people accepting that no matter what this is going to be put in followed by more and more. rather than being mad they are defeated with pleas to ccp rather than rants. (sure there have been some but not as many) Citadel worm hole tax
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 17652	Posted - 2016.04.15 21:04:38 - [1742] - Quote Ria Nieyli wrote: CCP Rise wrote: We are taking your feedback seriously and if we don't make any changes before release we will absolutely be following up shortly after release with changes based on feedback and behavior. Mate, are you out of your bloody mind? This is garbage reasoning, you know very well that people will start participating in the opportunity once it gets released because not doing so is too punishing, yet you're going to take that as a metric of the feature being successful? Congratulations, your application for the role of Senior Brand Development Manager has been successful. "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
sero Hita Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 153	Posted - 2016.04.15 21:38:33 - [1743] - Quote Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: now sad thing is it's do to people accepting that no matter what this is going to be put in followed by more and more. rather than being mad they are defeated with pleas to ccp rather than rants. (sure there have been some but not as many) Or the most obvious possibility. People do simply and genuinely not care about this small change to the same extend you do. Perhaps they are not defeated, perhaps they do not care enough about these changes to be mad? Sure, you now come with your slippery slope... what will be next? something else to adapt to and not care about. Will the dailies do what CCP want? probably not. Will it kill the sandbox, imo. not. I predict that approx. four months after implementation the complaints will stop just like it did for the overview changes. You also hear very few people complain about SP injectors these days. You don't like that they force changes on you? Leave the game. I know I would if I did not like what they do.. also without making a big scene of it. At some point in your life, you will learn that videogames are not important enough to get real life agitated about. "I'm all for pvp, don't get me wrong. I've ganked in Empire, blobed in low sec. Got T-shirts from every which-where.. But to be forced into a pvp confrontation that I didn't want is wrong ccp." RealFlisker
Stellar Compass Secret Passage 6	Posted - 2016.04.15 21:46:31 - [1744] - Quote Let us just take a pause guys, Eve has been around a long time and this isn't the end of the universe. The question bears a deeper examination, they have clearly realised that they need a greater engagement from the playerbase, they need more people in space, and they need to change in some way to make themselves fit into the current market. So we have a game where you can play for free, but they are a bit at the hands of the market. (Plex). They do not want to change that, as the market, is something dynamic, and they want to keep that independence. So, how do they retain that concept, but make people able to play the game if they are committed, without spending real money, but still encourage them to buy stuff. And also do stuff, have a motivation? The answer is actually blindingly obvious! Free to play, pay to train! A plex instead of 30 days gametime, becomes 30 days training as well as all it's other roles. Subscriptions become training subscriptions. And the rewards from the initial days session, also play into this. All of a sudden it all makes sense, and even better, It will work! More in space. More engagement. More players More income! Obviously it will need fine tuning, a lot of thought, and a lot of balancing, but if we can get over the shock, Both EvE and CCP will be better off for it.
Miss 'Assassination' Cayman CK-0FF Violence of Action. 101	Posted - 2016.04.16 00:12:37 - [1745] - Quote sero Hita wrote: I predict that approx. four months after implementation the complaints will stop just like it did for the overview changes. You also hear very few people complain about SP injectors these days. You don't like that they force changes on you? Leave the game. I know I would if I did not like what they do.. also without making a big scene of it. At some point in your life, you will learn that videogames are not important enough to get real life agitated about. Yes, if it happens the protests will eventually quiet down because those who don't like it either quit or grudgingly learned to live with another bad change. As for not complaining about the change because video games aren't worth it, Eve is worth it. This is a unique and awesome game that many of us have spent a lot of time and money on, and it would be a shame if they ruin it and make us quit.
Lugh Crow-Slave 2142	Posted - 2016.04.16 01:27:42 - [1746] - Quote screw it if all ccp cares about is more ppl online and in space just go free to play pack the games will dailies sell SP boosts let us buy 50 75 100 mill sp toons to start with make insurance 100% and start using npcs to seed the market all of these will get more ppl out and in space so why not oh they would also be great for the new bro c'mon think of the new bros Citadel worm hole tax
Pryce Caesar Evil Young Flesh 66	Posted - 2016.04.16 05:57:27 - [1747] - Quote Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: screw it if all ccp cares about is more ppl online and in space just go free to play pack the games will dailies sell SP boosts let us buy 50 75 100 mill sp toons to start with make insurance 100% and start using npcs to seed the market all of these will get more ppl out and in space so why not oh they would also be great for the new bro c'mon think of the new bros I'm surprised that you are so sensitive (and dripping with sarcasm) when you've only been in EVE for one year longer than I have. CCP is never going to go that far, since the MMOs that best survive on micro-transactions and free-to-play are those that are built around the concept. Either way you look at it, these Dailies still have to be done by players in order for it to yield any skill-points, and there'd be no point in making the dailies give ISK instead because the entire game is already built around ISK and the overall economy (outside of the PVP aspect). So what if they add Dailies to EVE Online? In the long run, the gains from the Dailies, even if you do them every day for the entire year, is minuscule compared to the amount of skill points generated by an active skill queue running for the same amount of time, especially one with 5+ implants (and a skill queue lined with skills requiring specific attributes that you max out said attributes of by re-arranging your skill queue). It's pretty much icing on the cake of the training queue. It is nothing that will cause the game to implode upon itself.
Lugh Crow-Slave 2144	Posted - 2016.04.16 06:23:06 - [1748] - Quote Pryce Caesar wrote: Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: screw it if all ccp cares about is more ppl online and in space just go free to play pack the games will dailies sell SP boosts let us buy 50 75 100 mill sp toons to start with make insurance 100% and start using npcs to seed the market all of these will get more ppl out and in space so why not oh they would also be great for the new bro c'mon think of the new bros I'm surprised that you are so sensitive (and dripping with sarcasm) when you've only been in EVE for one year longer than I have. CCP is never going to go that far, since the MMOs that best survive on micro-transactions and free-to-play are those that are built around the concept. Either way you look at it, these Dailies still have to be done by players in order for it to yield any skill-points, and there'd be no point in making the dailies give ISK instead because the entire game is already built around ISK and the overall economy (outside of the PVP aspect). So what if they add Dailies to EVE Online? In the long run, the gains from the Dailies, even if you do them every day for the entire year, is minuscule compared to the amount of skill points generated by an active skill queue running for the same amount of time, especially one with 5+ implants (and a skill queue lined with skills requiring specific attributes that you max out said attributes of by re-arranging your skill queue). It's pretty much icing on the cake of the training queue. It is nothing that will cause the game to implode upon itself. selling pre sp characters is not that big of a stretch considering ccp has already sold characters that train faster. CCP also shows they are not just willing to stretch core eve concepts but bust through them with a hammer. and no one is saying these will cause eve to implode we are saying that these are not indications of a healthy direction even when pew made his video in favor of them he admitted that. the difference is he probably has faith that ccp will control themselves. I look to the past and see ccp turns even great ideas bad do to lack of focus this leads me to have very little faith that this will be built on properly and in a way that has the players best interests in mind. maybe just maybe if ccp didn't treat the csm like a marketing gimick i would have more faith. or hell if they would give more feed back that didn't sound hollow and scripted. That way we can get a better idea of what they plan with this in the future even when they were defending this idea they hardly tried to make it look like a better game was the goal Citadel worm hole tax
Indahmawar Fazmarai 5049	Posted - 2016.04.16 06:54:42 - [1749] - Quote FT Diomedes wrote: Honestly, folks, the only way to have a chance of having CCP listen is to complain about this publicly. On Facebook, on Twitter, at Fanfest, etc.(...). As if the "Public" gave a flying sh*t of our freaky video game. Having EVE Online as a pasion is in line with regarding David Hasselhoff as a star. And probably is even freakiest.
Axhind Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation 163	Posted - 2016.04.16 08:09:24 - [1750] - Quote Pryce Caesar wrote: Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: screw it if all ccp cares about is more ppl online and in space just go free to play pack the games will dailies sell SP boosts let us buy 50 75 100 mill sp toons to start with make insurance 100% and start using npcs to seed the market all of these will get more ppl out and in space so why not oh they would also be great for the new bro c'mon think of the new bros I'm surprised that you are so sensitive (and dripping with sarcasm) when you've only been in EVE for one year longer than I have. CCP is never going to go that far, since the MMOs that best survive on micro-transactions and free-to-play are those that are built around the concept. Either way you look at it, these Dailies still have to be done by players in order for it to yield any skill-points, and there'd be no point in making the dailies give ISK instead because the entire game is already built around ISK and the overall economy (outside of the PVP aspect). So what if they add Dailies to EVE Online? In the long run, the gains from the Dailies, even if you do them every day for the entire year, is minuscule compared to the amount of skill points generated by an active skill queue running for the same amount of time, especially one with 5+ implants (and a skill queue lined with skills requiring specific attributes that you max out said attributes of by re-arranging your skill queue). It's pretty much icing on the cake of the training queue. It is nothing that will cause the game to implode upon itself. What MMO is doing well after implementing dailies? WoT and co are more a bit different FPSs with few more people than usual. Kinda like 32 player TF2 servers vs. normal 16. Everything else is losing meaning as instant gratification design means that people achieve everything they want very fast and then get bored and leave. Plus dailies burn out even more of them. F2P games are usually large boost when they come out and then slower or faster decline depending on how good the developers are. If they are lucky they can get a new players but those will most likely not be so desperate for advancement so income from them will be bad (see problems basically every F2P has). EVE made money and has grown for 10 years because it was different and unique, not because it was copying the worst practices in the industry. I have no idea what is going on at CCP but it is clear that developers there are either run by economists making short term decision or the level of incompetence is amazingly high. Even with the current war showing that people want huge fights CCP is using it to claim that fozzie sov is great... Yea because everyone showed up for 3v1 fights in interceptors and T3Ds that CCP claims is the optimal PvP and how we all should play it. Small gang PvP is dank or whatever the hell they are thinking.
sero Hita Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 155	Posted - 2016.04.16 09:08:55 - [1751] - Quote Miss 'Assassination' Cayman wrote: Yes, if it happens the protests will eventually quiet down because those who don't like it either quit or grudgingly learned to live with another bad change. Or people found it was not so bad after all, after using the feature instead of only basing it on oppinions. See that is the problem with your perspective, you assume only the negative scenarios. Miss 'Assassination' Cayman wrote: As for not complaining about the change because video games aren't worth it, Eve is worth it. This is a unique and awesome game that many of us have spent a lot of time and money on, and it would be a shame if they ruin it and make us quit. You did not get my point. It was not don't complain. It was control the anger, and complain constructively (this is not as much pointed towards you personally, but towards some of the more agressive posts). Every time CCP makes a change people go full ******, questioning the intelligence level and skills of the developers in question. Do not do this, when all you have is a feeling that the change will be bad, not need to get personal. The reaction of the community never fits the scale of the implemented scale in my opinion. Also not in this case. I think everyone who at some time in their life has had a side job in the service sector, has tried being unloaded on by someone completely lost to anger and it is simply not nice. The first times it hurts, and then you go numb and ignores whatever people throw at you. Meaning if you don't control your anger the chances are much smaller CCP will listen. Being excessive angry is not a healthy state to be in, it will affect your health over time. So yeah having such a strong reaction over a computer game is not a healthy sign IMO. An example of posting constructively: Dear CCP. I do not agree with.... due to.... and.... and... I would recommend to ... and ... and... instead If not, then consider.... and ...and And remember CCP, not considering your suggestiong, does not warrant a strong emotional response on your behalf. All is IMO. ofc. I would just love being able to spend my lunch breaks on these forums, reading funny posts about the game i enjoy. Without getting my energy sucked out of me, from people overrection and lacking common decency. "I'm all for pvp, don't get me wrong. I've ganked in Empire, blobed in low sec. Got T-shirts from every which-where.. But to be forced into a pvp confrontation that I didn't want is wrong ccp." RealFlisker
Lugh Crow-Slave 2149	Posted - 2016.04.16 09:40:28 - [1752] - Quote sero Hita wrote: Miss 'Assassination' Cayman wrote: Yes, if it happens the protests will eventually quiet down because those who don't like it either quit or grudgingly learned to live with another bad change. Or people found it was not so bad after all, after using the feature instead of only basing it on oppinions. See that is the problem with your perspective, you assume only the negative scenarios. Miss 'Assassination' Cayman wrote: As for not complaining about the change because video games aren't worth it, Eve is worth it. This is a unique and awesome game that many of us have spent a lot of time and money on, and it would be a shame if they ruin it and make us quit. You did not get my point. It was not don't complain. It was control the anger, and complain constructively (this is not as much pointed towards you personally, but towards some of the more agressive posts). Every time CCP makes a change people go full ******, questioning the intelligence level and skills of the developers in question. Do not do this, when all you have is a feeling that the change will be bad, not need to get personal. The reaction of the community never fits the scale of the implemented scale in my opinion. Also not in this case. I think everyone who at some time in their life has had a side job in the service sector, has tried being unloaded on by someone completely lost to anger and it is simply not nice. The first times it hurts, and then you go numb and ignores whatever people throw at you. Meaning if you don't control your anger the chances are much smaller CCP will listen. Being excessive angry is not a healthy state to be in, it will affect your health over time. So yeah having such a strong reaction over a computer game is not a healthy sign IMO. An example of posting constructively: Dear CCP. I do not agree with.... due to.... and.... and... I would recommend to ... and ... and... instead If not, then consider.... and ...and And remember CCP, not considering your suggestiong, does not warrant a strong emotional response on your behalf. All is IMO. ofc. I would just love being able to spend my lunch breaks on these forums, reading funny posts about the game i enjoy. Without getting my energy sucked out of me, from people overrection and lacking common decency. you also cant just dismiss argumants because they may have some emotional basis or because people have freaked out in the past. most ppl have given reasons why they think this is a bad change or why it doesn't fit in line with the sandbox ideal Citadel worm hole tax
Ria Nieyli 43630	Posted - 2016.04.16 10:16:57 - [1753] - Quote sero Hita wrote: I would just love being able to spend my lunch breaks on these forums, reading funny posts about the game i enjoy. Without getting my energy sucked out of me, from people overrection and lacking common decency. Lacking common decency? CCP Rise basically told the playerbase that CCP thinks they're ****** and you're accusing people of lacking common decency? Here: CCP Rise wrote:** We are taking your feedback seriously and if we don't make any changes before release we will absolutely be following up shortly after release with changes based on feedback and behavior. If you think that people will accept this as sound reasoning for introducing the feature, it must mean that you think they're stupid. "slang" is shortened language for "shortened language"
Lugh Crow-Slave 2149	Posted - 2016.04.16 10:19:01 - [1754] - Quote Ria Nieyli wrote: sero Hita wrote: I would just love being able to spend my lunch breaks on these forums, reading funny posts about the game i enjoy. Without getting my energy sucked out of me, from people overrection and lacking common decency. Lacking common decency? CCP Rise basically told the playerbase that CCP thinks they're ******** and you're accusing people of lacking common decency? well idk about that but he does seem to think that we should be on eve during lunch breaks... you know because we can all do that Citadel worm hole tax
Lugh Crow-Slave 2149	Posted - 2016.04.16 10:23:19 - [1755] - Quote okay how about this rather than direct SP make it so evey daily gives you a point every X points you get a free remap this solves the issue of year long waits if you change your mind and is definitely an incentive to log in for a large number of people but does not have the same physiological effect on those who can't do them every day. will ppl log on as much as they would with dailies? probably not but more than the number with the old queue Citadel worm hole tax
Mister Ripley Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde 215	Posted - 2016.04.16 10:38:32 - [1756] - Quote Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: okay how about this rather than direct SP make it so evey daily gives you a point every X points you get a free remap this solves the issue of year long waits if you change your mind and is definitely an incentive to log in for a large number of people but does not have the same physiological effect on those who can't do them every day. will ppl log on as much as they would with dailies? probably not but more than the number with the old queue Remaps will be sold for AUR like resculps. Gotta milk it.
Ria Nieyli 43630	Posted - 2016.04.16 10:39:27 - [1757] - Quote Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: okay how about this rather than direct SP make it so evey daily gives you a point every X points you get a free remap this solves the issue of year long waits if you change your mind and is definitely an incentive to log in for a large number of people but does not have the same physiological effect on those who can't do them every day. will ppl log on as much as they would with dailies? probably not but more than the number with the old queue How about this: People don't want dailies. Period. "slang" is shortened language for "shortened language"
Jimy F Aliastra Gallente Federation 3	Posted - 2016.04.16 10:44:20 - [1758] - Quote X) it is pure copy of one of Leage of Leagends game futures, and i think it make some but not many more logins becouse if some1 wish to get more sp he just buy skill extractor, it's so simple X)
Lugh Crow-Slave 2149	Posted - 2016.04.16 10:47:41 - [1759] - Quote Ria Nieyli wrote: Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: okay how about this rather than direct SP make it so evey daily gives you a point every X points you get a free remap this solves the issue of year long waits if you change your mind and is definitely an incentive to log in for a large number of people but does not have the same physiological effect on those who can't do them every day. will ppl log on as much as they would with dailies? probably not but more than the number with the old queue How about this: People don't want dailies. Period. i'm right there with you but ccp is going to implement them. Period. Citadel worm hole tax
Lugh Crow-Slave 2149	Posted - 2016.04.16 10:50:44 - [1760] - Quote Mister Ripley wrote: Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: okay how about this rather than direct SP make it so evey daily gives you a point every X points you get a free remap this solves the issue of year long waits if you change your mind and is definitely an incentive to log in for a large number of people but does not have the same physiological effect on those who can't do them every day. will ppl log on as much as they would with dailies? probably not but more than the number with the old queue Remaps will be sold for AUR like resculps. Gotta milk it. good point :/ Citadel worm hole tax
Ria Nieyli 43631	Posted - 2016.04.16 10:53:19 - [1761] - Quote Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: i'm right there with you but ccp is going to implement them. Period. And then people will leave. It's just how it works when you alter the product from what your core userbase likes in it. "slang" is shortened language for "shortened language"
Lugh Crow-Slave 2149	Posted - 2016.04.16 11:08:43 - [1762] - Quote Ria Nieyli wrote: Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: i'm right there with you but ccp is going to implement them. Period. And then people will leave. It's just how it works when you alter the product from what your core userbase likes in it. lol that's the problem no one or at least not enough will leave and ccp know this they will turn the heat up slow making sure not to many jump out of the pot Citadel worm hole tax
Ria Nieyli 43635	Posted - 2016.04.16 11:10:59 - [1763] - Quote Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: lol that's the problem no one or at least not enough will leave and ccp know this Really? Why do you think there has been a decline in the recent years then? "slang" is shortened language for "shortened language"
Drago Shouna Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire 339	Posted - 2016.04.16 11:22:27 - [1764] - Quote Ria Nieyli wrote: Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: lol that's the problem no one or at least not enough will leave and ccp know this Really? Why do you think there has been a decline in the recent years then? Well it had nothing to do with sp injectors or dailies as they are new.
Lugh Crow-Slave 2149	Posted - 2016.04.16 11:23:42 - [1765] - Quote Ria Nieyli wrote: Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: lol that's the problem no one or at least not enough will leave and ccp know this Really? Why do you think there has been a decline in the recent years then? oh no thats long term ccp doesn't care about that it seems its all about the short term with them they keep brinign things in that may cause things to spike but they dont hold players and they drive a few old ones a way so they see membership go up but then drop farther than it was so they decide they need something else that will spike it rather than fixing underling issues Citadel worm hole tax
Ria Nieyli 43635	Posted - 2016.04.16 11:24:12 - [1766] - Quote Drago Shouna wrote: Well it had nothing to do with sp injectors or dailies as they are new. But those two things are just the latest in the line of unpopular changes that CCP has introduced. "slang" is shortened language for "shortened language"
Drago Shouna Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire 339	Posted - 2016.04.16 11:34:08 - [1767] - Quote I don't like the way rigs are going to work on a Medium Citadel, particularly Reprocessing. Mainly the answers I got in that thread was to htfu or gtfo, guess what? I presume you get what I mean?
sero Hita Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 157	Posted - 2016.04.16 11:50:46 - [1768] - Quote Ria Nieyli wrote: Lacking common decency? CCP Rise basically told the playerbase that CCP thinks they're ****** and you're accusing people of lacking common decency? What is wrong with you? CCP said we introduce feature X. They did not basically tell anyone that they are ****. This is all you. The decency part was about people not being able to communicate without spewing venom. thank you for proving my point. You misunderstand my post, you explode like this is some serious matter. It is just a bonus for logging in and killing a rat. calm down. I have said plenty of times that I don't think this feature does what they want, but it is also pretty harmless. Ria Nieyli wrote: Here: CCP Rise wrote:** We are taking your feedback seriously and if we don't make any changes before release we will absolutely be following up shortly after release with changes based on feedback and behavior. If you think that people will accept this as sound reasoning for introducing the feature, it must mean that you think they're stupid. This is not a reasoning for the feature... how can you read it as such???????? It is their plan for how they respond to the feedback. And apparantly their plan is :Wait and see, which is to be honest a quite normal approach for implementing features. "I'm all for pvp, don't get me wrong. I've ganked in Empire, blobed in low sec. Got T-shirts from every which-where.. But to be forced into a pvp confrontation that I didn't want is wrong ccp." RealFlisker
Ria Nieyli 43636	Posted - 2016.04.16 11:53:32 - [1769] - Quote Drago Shouna wrote: I don't like the way rigs are going to work on a Medium Citadel, particularly Reprocessing. Mainly the answers I got in that thread was to htfu or gtfo, guess what? I presume you get what I mean? Yes, I know all the edgy eve memes too. You're adorable. sero Hita wrote: This is not a reasoning for the feature... how can you read it as such???????? It is their plan for how they respond to the feedback. And apparantly their plan is :Wait and see, which is to be honest a quite normal approach for implementing features. The feature is going to have good user participation numbers, because not engaging it is going to be too costly. Feedback is being outright disregarded, and the promised changes - well, there aren't going to be any. It's just a publicity piece, created to appease the playerbase and seem reasonable, while completely disregarding them. "slang" is shortened language for "shortened language"
sero Hita Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 157	Posted - 2016.04.16 12:02:29 - [1770] - Quote Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Ria Nieyli wrote: sero Hita wrote: I would just love being able to spend my lunch breaks on these forums, reading funny posts about the game i enjoy. Without getting my energy sucked out of me, from people overrection and lacking common decency. Lacking common decency? CCP Rise basically told the playerbase that CCP thinks they're ******** and you're accusing people of lacking common decency? well idk about that but he does seem to think that we should be on eve during lunch breaks... you know because we can all do that Where did I write that you should be able to be on EVE (whatever that means) in your lunchbreak, or that everyone can? That was why I used "I". To implicate that the mentioned only apply to me personally. "I'm all for pvp, don't get me wrong. I've ganked in Empire, blobed in low sec. Got T-shirts from every which-where.. But to be forced into a pvp confrontation that I didn't want is wrong ccp." RealFlisker
Lugh Crow-Slave 2149	Posted - 2016.04.16 12:24:31 - [1771] - Quote sero Hita wrote: Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Ria Nieyli wrote: sero Hita wrote: I would just love being able to spend my lunch breaks on these forums, reading funny posts about the game i enjoy. Without getting my energy sucked out of me, from people overrection and lacking common decency. Lacking common decency? CCP Rise basically told the playerbase that CCP thinks they're ******** and you're accusing people of lacking common decency? well idk about that but he does seem to think that we should be on eve during lunch breaks... you know because we can all do that Where did I write that you should be able to be on EVE (whatever that means) in your lunchbreak, or that everyone can? That was why I used "I". To implicate that the mentioned only apply to me personally. You didn't, Rise did. Keep up now Citadel worm hole tax
Lugh Crow-Slave 2149	Posted - 2016.04.16 12:25:59 - [1772] - Quote Drago Shouna wrote: I don't like the way rigs are going to work on a Medium Citadel, particularly Reprocessing. Mainly the answers I got in that thread was to htfu or gtfo, guess what? I presume you get what I mean? HTFU had nothing to do with disagreeing with a fundamental shift in the games philosophy Citadel worm hole tax
sero Hita Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 157	Posted - 2016.04.16 12:28:34 - [1773] - Quote Ria Nieyli wrote: Drago Shouna wrote: I don't like the way rigs are going to work on a Medium Citadel, particularly Reprocessing. Mainly the answers I got in that thread was to htfu or gtfo, guess what? I presume you get what I mean? Yes, I know all the edgy eve memes too. You're adorable. sero Hita wrote: This is not a reasoning for the feature... how can you read it as such???????? It is their plan for how they respond to the feedback. And apparantly their plan is :Wait and see, which is to be honest a quite normal approach for implementing features. The feature is going to have good user participation numbers, because not engaging it is going to be too costly. Feedback is being outright disregarded, and the promised changes - well, there aren't going to be any. It's just a publicity piece, created to appease the playerbase and seem reasonable, while completely disregarding them. It's downright insulting. At this point it doesn't even matter what the change is. i understand your point. But feedback was somewhat regarded, it was changed to being accountwise instead of characterwise. The thing is the only feedback you think they should listen to is "cancel the changes". They are not gonna do that. I am also not sure, I think the community needs to be asked about every change or that it is insulting they are not. It is their game afterall. "I'm all for pvp, don't get me wrong. I've ganked in Empire, blobed in low sec. Got T-shirts from every which-where.. But to be forced into a pvp confrontation that I didn't want is wrong ccp." RealFlisker
Ria Nieyli 43636	Posted - 2016.04.16 12:30:59 - [1774] - Quote That's not what I said. Go shill somewhere else. "slang" is shortened language for "shortened language"
Indahmawar Fazmarai 5050	Posted - 2016.04.16 12:42:12 - [1775] - Quote Ria Nieyli wrote: Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: i'm right there with you but ccp is going to implement them. Period. And then people will leave. It's just how it works when you alter the product away from what your core userbase likes in it. The **** part is that we supposedly have CSM to help with stuff like that, but it doesn't matter. Get down from that PvP horse, you're being silly now. The core user base of EVE are carebears. The core user base of EVE are PvErs. The core user base of EVE are highseccers. That's where the money comes from for CCP.
Axhind Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation 166	Posted - 2016.04.16 12:51:34 - [1776] - Quote Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Ria Nieyli wrote: Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: i'm right there with you but ccp is going to implement them. Period. And then people will leave. It's just how it works when you alter the product from what your core userbase likes in it. lol that's the problem no one or at least not enough will leave and ccp know this they will turn the heat up slow making sure not to many jump out of the pot Problem with this kind of behaviour is that at some point you cross a threshold and suddenly everyone is gone and there is **** all you can do about it. This has been seen in everything from biological systems (overfishing) to taxes on tobacco or alcohol. CCPs greatest asset are its players as they are the ones creating all the narrative that brings in the new players. Once they are gone it's game over forever.
Axhind Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation 166	Posted - 2016.04.16 12:56:54 - [1777] - Quote Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote: Ria Nieyli wrote: Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: i'm right there with you but ccp is going to implement them. Period. And then people will leave. It's just how it works when you alter the product away from what your core userbase likes in it. The ** part is that we supposedly have CSM to help with stuff like that, but it doesn't matter. Get down from that PvP horse, you're being silly now. The core user base of EVE are carebears. The core user base of EVE are PvErs. The core user base of EVE are highseccers. That's where the money comes from for CCP. If that's the case how come numbers are so much down after changes to jump ranges of capitals (not used in high sec) and fozzie sov? CCP changes 0.0 where tiny minority of players hang out, according to you, and numbers drop like a rock. Might be something wrong with your and CCPs interpretation of data. There are a lot of characters in high sec but almost everyone in 0.0 has alts in high sec. At least a Jita shopping one but probably several for missions/incursion/logistics/whatever. You can't ** on 0.0 all the time and expect that not to have any impact on the numbers. Not to mention what was the last time you heard a newbie tell how we came to eve to experience the awesome PvE in high sec as compared to hearing about huge 0.0 battlers/politics/drama?
Erania Amandine Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 1	Posted - 2016.04.16 13:03:08 - [1778] - Quote CCP Rise wrote: Now, with before and after data we can see that making it into the client is a huge step towards real activity, even if the reason for logging in in the first place seems artificial. So this leads us to where we are now, attempting to find ways to create more logins that also don't feel like such a punishment as the skill queue limitations did. This may not turn out to be the perfect alternative but that's what we're looking for. While seeing the rationale in this 'more log-ins yield (some measure of) more content!', I still don't like the idea. The mechanic is to compel the player to log-in his characters to get rewards. The moment the player starts to feel compelled to do something is the moment he gets bored, and the moment he gets bored is the moment he's thinking to quit. I've seen this happen to me while trying to efficiently run PI on a few characters, I was very close to quitting EVE altogether. That taught me to stay away from the 'I must do these things every day' mentality, and to look around for what I have fun doing, which is rarely the same thing every day. So, first and foremost, i.m.o. CCP should aim to avoid introducing potentially boring mechanics (and correct those in place now, like PI!). Also, it is the long term effect of the mechanic that should be considered not the first few days, unless it is available for a limited time as events like the recent Gurista one. In this perspective, the very idea of creating 'artificial log-ins' by compelling players into repetitive routines starts on the wrong foot. The aim should rather be to expand on the fun part of game, and have more real, rather than artificial, log-ins. Fly safe o7
Lugh Crow-Slave 2150	Posted - 2016.04.16 13:07:45 - [1779] - Quote Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote: Ria Nieyli wrote: Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: i'm right there with you but ccp is going to implement them. Period. And then people will leave. It's just how it works when you alter the product away from what your core userbase likes in it. The **** part is that we supposedly have CSM to help with stuff like that, but it doesn't matter. Get down from that PvP horse, you're being silly now. The core user base of EVE are carebears. The core user base of EVE are PvErs. The core user base of EVE are highseccers. That's where the money comes from for CCP. What does this have to do with pvp or pve Or could be kill a player get 10k SP and it would still be a bad idea. Citadel worm hole tax
Udonor Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic 71	Posted - 2016.04.16 14:45:53 - [1780] - Quote IMHO TDLR thread. So I am probably voting rather than being original. SP is a good prize if you are making guarantees. But how many SP depends on your real goals. For what I think CCP is proposing the reward should only be 1K-4K SP. Getting people to log in for 3-5 minutes is easy. Getting them to do some very short game play of less than 10 minutes is not much harder. Either way some might stay logged on AFK. But AFK don't usually get further involved. #1 I realize the simple login goal is necessary but this smells of running up login stats for external investors as real immediate purpose. #2 I also know all of us including CCP do have concerns about numbers of truly involved players.
Udonor Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic 71	Posted - 2016.04.16 15:39:57 - [1781] - Quote Udonor wrote: IMHO TDLR thread. So I am probably voting rather than being original. SP is a good prize if you are making guarantees. But how many SP depends on your real goals. For what I think CCP is proposing the reward should only be 1K-4K SP. Getting people to log in for 3-5 minutes is easy. Getting them to do some very short game play of less than 10 minutes is not much harder. Either way some might stay logged on AFK. But AFK don't usually get further involved. #1 I realize the simple login goal is necessary but this smells of running up login stats for external investors as real immediate purpose. #2 I also know all of us including CCP do have concerns about numbers of truly involved players. If we really want #2 to increase chances of people getting involved... (a) first provide the small zero effort guaranteed reward to get them logged on for a few minutes. I suggest 2-3 hour SP boost (2K?) for something like retrieve package at beacon in-system. (b) Provide some ESCALATION to greater/additional reward maybe up to that extra 8K SP for additional daily task.. (b1) maybe issue a courier contract for SP to be delivered to another online player. (b2) consider anything where contact with 1 other online player is required. Maybe structure a new relay type of courier contract where a final delivery reward to all involved individuals increases for the more systems and people are involved within time limits (rationale = for spy work or black market). Also consider 2nd extra reward as random value and type rather than guaranteed fixed result. (a) Random type of reward would keep from impacting any specific market segment and causing collapse. (b) Random value appeals to the gambler instinct with possibility of greater reward but average of rewards collected would not inflate SP or market.
Lugh Crow-Slave 2150	Posted - 2016.04.16 15:58:01 - [1782] - Quote Udonor wrote: Udonor wrote: IMHO TDLR thread. So I am probably voting rather than being original. SP is a good prize if you are making guarantees. But how many SP depends on your real goals. For what I think CCP is proposing the reward should only be 1K-4K SP. Getting people to log in for 3-5 minutes is easy. Getting them to do some very short game play of less than 10 minutes is not much harder. Either way some might stay logged on AFK. But AFK don't usually get further involved. #1 I realize the simple login goal is necessary but this smells of running up login stats for external investors as real immediate purpose. #2 I also know all of us including CCP do have concerns about numbers of truly involved players. If we really want #2 to increase chances of people getting involved... (a) first provide the small zero effort guaranteed reward to get them logged on for a few minutes. I suggest 2-3 hour SP boost (2K?) for something like retrieve package at beacon in-system. (b) Provide some ESCALATION to greater/additional reward maybe up to that extra 8K SP for additional daily task.. (b1) maybe issue a courier contract for SP to be delivered to another online player. (b2) consider anything where contact with 1 other online player is required. Maybe structure a new relay type of courier contract where a final delivery reward to all involved individuals increases for the more systems and people are involved within time limits (rationale = for spy work or black market). Also consider 2nd extra reward as random value and type rather than guaranteed fixed result. (a) Random type of reward would keep from impacting any specific market segment and causing collapse. (b) Random value appeals to the gambler instinct with possibility of greater reward but average of rewards collected would not inflate SP or market. So I need to put my game and personal goals on hold even longer? Better idea use game mechanics to make players want to log in because they enjoy it not because they feel compelled to do it Citadel worm hole tax
Udonor Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic 71	Posted - 2016.04.16 15:58:47 - [1783] - Quote But truthfully since CCP is stumped for adding meaningful content to a HUGE single universe sandbox? Call it EVE World of Targets Spin off some smaller PVP only EVE shards. Game of Tanks style. Stuff playable for a day, weekend, week, month or longer but decreasing resources. Limited total lifetime span. No Industry or Research. The only miners are NPC rats running some simple minded miners AI. New fittings by only by salvage. Add minor chance of pod destruction or forced eject wth hull survival. Alliance Victory by attrition. Maybe even go for No AFK station docking unless commanding defenses of station under fire. Auto eject after 10 minutes with redock blocked for 15 minutes. Exciting. Real total victory wins to crow about. Something for players to return to again and again without worrying about falling behind buddies when they take breaks for RL or even another game. Just thinking the big EVE without significant new CONTENT (externally provided goals and mechanics) is going to see deindling numbers of players. The rapid re-visioning of specific game mechanics is too artificial and for many just translates to lack of STABILITY in game mechanics. Do not shut the big EVE universe down! But prepare to shift resources to players interested in EVE as a short winnable and repeatable version of the main game. High turnover is not bad if players are unafraid of coming back after a break.
Tomika Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 45	Posted - 2016.04.16 16:31:04 - [1784] - Quote CCP has the perennial problem of finding ways to motivate players in a sandbox. People say "make the game more fun to play instead of forcing me to log in for my 10K SP" but what exactly does "more fun" look like?
Ashterothi Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 376	Posted - 2016.04.16 16:33:55 - [1785] - Quote Hey Rise! Thanks for giving this thorough response, and since no good deed goes unpunished, here are my reactions to them: CCP Rise wrote: Why Dailies? First of all, I could see this as a potential problem with the unlimited skill queue, and I know I wasn't alone. However, that box is now open. The issue with the system currently proposed is it only addresses this in the thinnest of ways. You are not actually getting quality content out of people logging in, but rather ensuring they tick to box by logging in very briefly. While on the surface that may seem like it is a good replacement of the 24 hour skill queue incentive to log in, in reality it takes the worst parts of that system, and reinforces them on an extreme level. With the 24 hour queue, I could set a 30 day skill at the end and feel like I have solved the puzzle, for at least a time. This is important for anyone with a life (actually a high percentage of players), but mostly it helps military personnel. I have heard time and again, both with the queue changes, and now this, about how EVE is a game where military people love the fact that they can go on a field problem, or maneuver, and not feel like they will lose significant progress. While you could argue that this is BONUS SP, in reality it isn't. All this does is make it so that people who can log in daily get 10-20% more SP flat out. This hurts one of the core things that made EVE interesting, and doesn't do anything more than let a "daily login" metric be artificially higher. CCP Rise wrote: Why Skillpoints? The issue here is you set a dangerous precedent. By literally tying 15% of your SP to daily login, you have created a punishment system not a reward system. Furthermore, by putting such a high bounty on this system, you set a baseline for future rewards. What you ultimatly create is a difficult design space. Blizzard had a problem where with so many tiers and raids and levels, it was hard to make rewards "good enough". If this is a feature that will ever be expanded upon, suing this quantity of SP, or using a guaranteed calculable amount, you set yourself up for failure in future design. (I can only quote 5 times, so this is also from Rise) Why so lazy? I feel like this may have been directly calling out the piece I wrote, which is fair. However, my principal concern was the complexity of the reward structure, not just the activity itself. While it is true I wrote it under the assumption that it was replacing the Tribute system, it is still true that some of the goals of that feature was broken off to be solved by this feature. To call them not related at all seems disingenuous. All that said, my principal concern is any complexity added to the system once released could be seen as a nerf to the already struggling system. When designing rewards, of course you want to start with the minimum required to receive the intended behavior. You can always increase rewards, or increase the number of things able to get rewards, but if the system is designed like a simple push button receive bacon, and then you make it more complex later, people could be even more angry. Again this is a matter of designing yourself in a corner. CCP Rise wrote: New players I agree, this is for everyone. That is something I like about it. Especially if more tasks are added to it. CCP Rise wrote: Wow CCP I would like to address this to the players not Rise: Using the argument that it is like other MMOs, or other games, and that is the reason by itself that the proposal is bad, is one of the most annoying argument the EVE playerbase comes up with. The bottom line is game design advances, and these other companies working on their own design problems create solutions that could be useful in other games, including EVE. This isn't about making EVE more WOW and more than Tokens made WOW more like EVE. There are tons of design lessoned to be learned from MMOs, MOBAs, and even F2P games, and good designers read and learn from each other. Just like any other engineer, or architect. EVE from the onset have plenty of mechanics seen in other games, but with their own, EVE flair. When discussing new features, please try to look at it as the concerns EVE has, and how we can learn from the mistakes and victories of others to designed elegant solutions to complex problems. This is not as easy as many think. CCP Rise wrote: Hope some of this helps. We are taking your feedback seriously and if we don't make any changes before release we will absolutely be following up shortly after release with changes based on feedback and behavior. Thanks again for having this discussion. This is a nearly unrivaled change in the nature of EVE Online, and obviously we as a player base are very trepidatious about it. However, through ongoing discussion, iteration, and your continued commitment to hit your design goals, we may be able to have a system that keeps people logging in, while avoiding the concerns above and elsewhere. Listen to Hydrostatic Podcast for all your Empyrean needs!
Lugh Crow-Slave 2150	Posted - 2016.04.16 16:47:31 - [1786] - Quote Tomika wrote: CCP has the perennial problem of finding ways to motivate players in a sandbox. People say "make the game more fun to play instead of forcing me to log in for my 10K SP" but what exactly does "more fun" look like? ... if they can't figure that one out what the hell am I paying them for. I mean it is literally their job Citadel worm hole tax
Ashterothi Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 378	Posted - 2016.04.16 17:04:09 - [1787] - Quote Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Tomika wrote: CCP has the perennial problem of finding ways to motivate players in a sandbox. People say "make the game more fun to play instead of forcing me to log in for my 10K SP" but what exactly does "more fun" look like? ... if they can't figure that one out what the hell am I paying them for. I mean it is literally their job This is one of the most difficult design challenges available. What we are discussing is an unobtrusive and elegant way of controlling thousands of humans behavior. These problems are extremely complex, and many videogames have suffered greatly by incorrect answers to 'simple' design problems. You are paying them to provide you a service, and to continue to wrestle with how to make that service better. However, this cannot be done in a vacuum, or without missteps, as no one is perfect. Critiquing the design is useful, insulting the task, or the person, is not. Listen to Hydrostatic Podcast for all your Empyrean needs!
Mizhara Del'thul Kyn'aldrnari 733	Posted - 2016.04.16 17:05:40 - [1788] - Quote Tomika wrote: CCP has the perennial problem of finding ways to motivate players in a sandbox. People say "make the game more fun to play instead of forcing me to log in for my 10K SP" but what exactly does "more fun" look like? Revamp Faction Warfare (basically, do to FW what Fozziesov did for SovSpace), progress the in universe storylines for all the factions instead of just focusing on the Amarr/Drifters so the universe feels more alive instead of stagnant and static, do more to reward both small and large gang PvP so there's more reason to undock and pewpew etc. There's much they can do, and there's been so many suggestion posts here, on slack, on reddit and elsewhere the devs are known to roam that all detail these things to the point where it could almost be straight copypasted into a design document, and already having passed 'player peer review' as it were as good proposals get discussed to death in whatever venues they come along in. Taking FW as an example, there's been fantastic suggestions on how to fix a broken system in ways that'd reduce or even remove the 'farmer' drudgery aspect, promoting PvP content in FW by creating 'frontlines' rather than spread out across the entire warzone, adjusting the rewards in order to remove the teeter totter swarm aspect, and one of my personal favorites; reducing the 'frigate menace' aspect of it by introducing a plex that can only be run by BCs and above but also rewards this higher risk with more capture percentage/LP etc. When New Eden grows stale, a laundry list of chores isn't going to make me log in and undock. On the contrary, it's one of the things that makes me dread logging in and more likely to just unsub and play something that values my time and effort instead. Want me logging in and undocking every day? Give me reasons that aren't infuriatingly obvious attempts at manipulation and carrot waving. It'll be hard to tell before it goes live, but if CCP goes as far with this daily nonsense as I suspect they will, it's entirely possible I'll just have to vote with my wallet and take my five accounts worth of money and spend it elsewhere. I will not be told what to do in the sandbox, not this way, not ever.
Ashterothi Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 378	Posted - 2016.04.16 17:06:52 - [1789] - Quote Mizhara Del'thul wrote: Tomika wrote: CCP has the perennial problem of finding ways to motivate players in a sandbox. People say "make the game more fun to play instead of forcing me to log in for my 10K SP" but what exactly does "more fun" look like? Revamp Faction Warfare (basically, do to FW what Fozziesov did for SovSpace), progress the in universe storylines for all the factions instead of just focusing on the Amarr/Drifters so the universe feels more alive instead of stagnant and static, do more to reward both small and large gang PvP so there's more reason to undock and pewpew etc. There's much they can do, and there's been so many suggestion posts here, on slack, on reddit and elsewhere the devs are known to roam that all detail these things to the point where it could almost be straight copypasted into a design document, and already having passed 'player peer review' as it were as good proposals get discussed to death in whatever venues they come along in. Taking FW as an example, there's been fantastic suggestions on how to fix a broken system in ways that'd reduce or even remove the 'farmer' drudgery aspect, promoting PvP content in FW by creating 'frontlines' rather than spread out across the entire warzone, adjusting the rewards in order to remove the teeter totter swarm aspect, and one of my personal favorites; reducing the 'frigate menace' aspect of it by introducing a plex that can only be run by BCs and above but also rewards this higher risk with more capture percentage/LP etc. When New Eden grows stale, a laundry list of chores isn't going to make me log in and undock. On the contrary, it's one of the things that makes me dread logging in and more likely to just unsub and play something that values my time and effort instead. Want me logging in and undocking every day? Give me reasons that aren't infuriatingly obvious attempts at manipulation and carrot waving. It'll be hard to tell before it goes live, but if CCP goes as far with this daily nonsense as I suspect they will, it's entirely possible I'll just have to vote with my wallet and take my five accounts worth of money and spend it elsewhere. I will not be told what to do in the sandbox, not this way, not ever. FW is being looked at for fixes, but that doesn't fix this problem at all. Listen to Hydrostatic Podcast for all your Empyrean needs!
Drago Shouna Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire 341	Posted - 2016.04.16 17:11:31 - [1790] - Quote Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Tomika wrote: CCP has the perennial problem of finding ways to motivate players in a sandbox. People say "make the game more fun to play instead of forcing me to log in for my 10K SP" but what exactly does "more fun" look like? ... if they can't figure that one out what the hell am I paying them for. I mean it is literally their job Really? Really? And according to the vast majority of posts in any thread... The players make the "content". If players are not having fun, that's down to them then?
Lucy Lollipops State War Academy Caldari State 5	Posted - 2016.04.16 17:23:35 - [1791] - Quote Please don't. I come from world of warcraft, daily activities are interesting at the beginning but after some time they give you a sense of duty imposed from above, a job, and if you don't do it you feel regret because of the lost reward. Please don't put this horrible thing even here..
Lugh Crow-Slave 2151	Posted - 2016.04.16 17:27:54 - [1792] - Quote Drago Shouna wrote: Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Tomika wrote: CCP has the perennial problem of finding ways to motivate players in a sandbox. People say "make the game more fun to play instead of forcing me to log in for my 10K SP" but what exactly does "more fun" look like? ... if they can't figure that one out what the hell am I paying them for. I mean it is literally their job Really? Really? And according to the vast majority of posts in any thread... The players make the "content". If players are not having fun, that's down to them then? Players do make the content but ccp makes the tools Honestly they are doing a good job of it I would like to know how they linked the lower log ins to the queue change considering at around the same time they also added fozzie sov and fatigue. Another thing that may have contributed to the drop is citadels I know 2 corps in my alliance are playing other games as they wait and I'm sure they can't be the only ones. Citadel worm hole tax
Lugh Crow-Slave 2151	Posted - 2016.04.16 17:29:03 - [1793] - Quote Lucy Lollipops wrote: Please don't. I come from world of warcraft, daily activities are interesting at the beginning but after some time they give you a sense of duty imposed from above, a job, and if you don't do it you feel regret because of the lost reward. Please don't put this horrible thing even here.. Honestly while they are bad in wow a better example is swtor where the game was not built with them in mind and faired far worse Citadel worm hole tax
Indahmawar Fazmarai 5051	Posted - 2016.04.16 17:30:27 - [1794] - Quote Axhind wrote: Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote: Ria Nieyli wrote: Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: i'm right there with you but ccp is going to implement them. Period. And then people will leave. It's just how it works when you alter the product away from what your core userbase likes in it. The ** part is that we supposedly have CSM to help with stuff like that, but it doesn't matter. Get down from that PvP horse, you're being silly now. The core user base of EVE are carebears. The core user base of EVE are PvErs. The core user base of EVE are highseccers. That's where the money comes from for CCP. If that's the case how come numbers are so much down after changes to jump ranges of capitals (not used in high sec) and fozzie sov? CCP changes 0.0 where tiny minority of players hang out, according to you, and numbers drop like a rock. Might be something wrong with your and CCPs interpretation of data. There are a lot of characters in high sec but almost everyone in 0.0 has alts in high sec. At least a Jita shopping one but probably several for missions/incursion/logistics/whatever. You can't ** on 0.0 all the time and expect that not to have any impact on the numbers. Not to mention what was the last time you heard a newbie tell how we came to eve to experience the awesome PvE in high sec as compared to hearing about huge 0.0 battlers/politics/drama? PvP is the brand. PvE is the product. And the product is bad. Even in the good old days, only 25% of new players mentioned PvP as a reason to try EVE. And we know how godawful bad is the retention of people lured by epic wars fought once each two years by players who are mostly 5 years or older. So why does population go down? Because PvE is a centrifugal machine that keeps driving players away at a slow but steady pace. You can't miss your heart for more than five minutes, but bleeding for hours will kill you too. And PvE has been bleeding for years without more than a few patches here and there to stop the bleed. PvP was more urgent! PvP needed, and still needs, lots of love! But also does PvE, and turns that what people pay for is PvE, in a proportion of almost 2:1 versus people who pay for PvP. CCP has put an enormous amount of effort and hopes on Citadel the PvP expansion. They are ecstatic about having a Big War right during the countdown to Citadel. And yet Citadel does NOTHING for PvErs -other than rise their taxes arbitrarily and without a way out. All for PvP. All because certain lady who came to CCP right before Incarnageddon figured, based on partial and skewed data, that people would hand their money if they were allowed to shoot more player owned stuff in more ways for more reasons. Yet she was fatally wrong. As was CCP. Citadel will have a minor impact at best on PCU. The next structures will have even smaller impacts, or may even have a negative impact. And meanwhile PvE will keep bleeding out players, slowly, steadily, and fatally. CCP bet the farm to a racing horse that wasn't going nowhere. Meanwhile the percheron who pulled the plow was disregarded and got ill. Crop after crop, the plowed land was shrinking, shrinking, and the farmer wondered why neither the racing horse managed to run faster nor why it was more and more difficult to sow the same acres with the same percheron. PvP loses are critical. PvE loses are chronic. In the big picture, chronic diseases kill way more people than critical events. Just they aren't that dramatic. They don't appear urgent. And yet... they are the deadliest.
Lugh Crow-Slave 2151	Posted - 2016.04.16 17:33:30 - [1795] - Quote Ashterothi wrote: Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Tomika wrote: CCP has the perennial problem of finding ways to motivate players in a sandbox. People say "make the game more fun to play instead of forcing me to log in for my 10K SP" but what exactly does "more fun" look like? ... if they can't figure that one out what the hell am I paying them for. I mean it is literally their job This is one of the most difficult design challenges available. What we are discussing is an unobtrusive and elegant way of controlling thousands of humans behavior. These problems are extremely complex, and many videogames have suffered greatly by incorrect answers to 'simple' design problems. You are paying them to provide you a service, and to continue to wrestle with how to make that service better. However, this cannot be done in a vacuum, or without missteps, as no one is perfect. Critiquing the design is useful, insulting the task, or the person, is not. Lol that wasn't my intention what I meant by that is I expect a rocket engineer to get their craft into space but I'm not qualified to tell them how. But I can point them to attempts in the past that did not do well and others that did. One thing they could do is fix industry teams in know the short time they were out they got me to log in several times a day to check in and modify bids all without making me feel like I was being made to unnaturally. Citadel worm hole tax
Tomika Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 47	Posted - 2016.04.16 17:34:14 - [1796] - Quote Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Tomika wrote: CCP has the perennial problem of finding ways to motivate players in a sandbox. People say "make the game more fun to play instead of forcing me to log in for my 10K SP" but what exactly does "more fun" look like? ... if they can't figure that one out what the hell am I paying them for. I mean it is literally their job Problem is, Lugh, there are a lot of voices on the forums who feel EVE should be a particular way and that it should never change. It's gotta be tough to satisfy those people whilst making EVE more fun to play.
Indahmawar Fazmarai 5051	Posted - 2016.04.16 17:35:22 - [1797] - Quote Tomika wrote: Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Tomika wrote: CCP has the perennial problem of finding ways to motivate players in a sandbox. People say "make the game more fun to play instead of forcing me to log in for my 10K SP" but what exactly does "more fun" look like? ... if they can't figure that one out what the hell am I paying them for. I mean it is literally their job Problem is, Lugh, there are a lot of voices on the forums who feel EVE should be a particular way and that it should never change. It's gotta be tough to satisfy those people whilst making EVE more fun to play. "EVE should be more fun"... ...for whom?
Lugh Crow-Slave 2151	Posted - 2016.04.16 17:35:57 - [1798] - Quote Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote: Axhind wrote: Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote: Ria Nieyli wrote: Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: i'm right there with you but ccp is going to implement them. Period. And then people will leave. It's just how it works when you alter the product away from what your core userbase likes in it. The ** part is that we supposedly have CSM to help with stuff like that, but it doesn't matter. Get down from that PvP horse, you're being silly now. The core user base of EVE are carebears. The core user base of EVE are PvErs. The core user base of EVE are highseccers. That's where the money comes from for CCP. If that's the case how come numbers are so much down after changes to jump ranges of capitals (not used in high sec) and fozzie sov? CCP changes 0.0 where tiny minority of players hang out, according to you, and numbers drop like a rock. Might be something wrong with your and CCPs interpretation of data. There are a lot of characters in high sec but almost everyone in 0.0 has alts in high sec. At least a Jita shopping one but probably several for missions/incursion/logistics/whatever. You can't ** on 0.0 all the time and expect that not to have any impact on the numbers. Not to mention what was the last time you heard a newbie tell how we came to eve to experience the awesome PvE in high sec as compared to hearing about huge 0.0 battlers/politics/drama? PvP is the brand. PvE is the product. And the product is bad. Even in the good old days, only 25% of new players mentioned PvP as a reason to try EVE. And we know how godawful bad is the retention of people lured by epic wars fought once each two years by players who are mostly 5 years or older. So why does population go down? Because PvE is a centrifugal machine that keeps driving players away at a slow but steady pace. You can't miss your heart for more than five minutes, but bleeding for hours will kill you too. And PvE has been bleeding for years without more than a few patches here and there to stop the bleed. PvP was more urgent! PvP needed, and still needs, lots of love! But also does PvE, and turns that what people pay for is PvE, in a proportion of almost 2:1 versus people who pay for PvP. CCP has put an enormous amount of effort and hopes on Citadel the PvP expansion. They are ecstatic about having a Big War right during the countdown to Citadel. And yet Citadel does NOTHING for PvErs -other than rise their taxes arbitrarily and without a way out. All for PvP. All because certain lady who came to CCP right before Incarnageddon figured, based on partial and skewed data, that people would hand their money if they were allowed to shoot more player owned stuff in more ways for more reasons. Yet she was fatally wrong. As was CCP. Citadel will have a minor impact at best on PCU. The next structures will have even smaller impacts, or may even have a negative impact. And meanwhile PvE will keep bleeding out players, slowly, steadily, and fatally. CCP bet the farm to a racing horse that wasn't going nowhere. Meanwhile the percheron who pulled the plow was disregarded and got ill. Crop after crop, the plowed land was shrinking, shrinking, and the farmer wondered why neither the racing horse managed to run faster nor why it was more and more difficult to sow the same acres with the same percheron. PvP loses are critical. PvE loses are chronic. In the big picture, chronic diseases kill way more people than critical events. Just they aren't that dramatic. They don't appear urgent. And yet... they are the deadliest. While the point of you're post is valid pve is bad because the pve in eve is bad. It's not because that style of playing is bad many people want to l play their own way in this sand box it's the main reason I'm against an idea that tells people how to play. Citadel worm hole tax
Lugh Crow-Slave 2151	Posted - 2016.04.16 17:42:03 - [1799] - Quote Tomika wrote: Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Tomika wrote: CCP has the perennial problem of finding ways to motivate players in a sandbox. People say "make the game more fun to play instead of forcing me to log in for my 10K SP" but what exactly does "more fun" look like? ... if they can't figure that one out what the hell am I paying them for. I mean it is literally their job Problem is, Lugh, there are a lot of voices on the forums who feel EVE should be a particular way and that it should never change. It's gotta be tough to satisfy those people whilst making EVE more fun to play. Changing the game is fine in fact it's needed but when doing it you need to make sure the core and feel stay the same Citadel worm hole tax
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 17656	Posted - 2016.04.16 17:45:44 - [1800] - Quote Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote: Tomika wrote: Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Tomika wrote: CCP has the perennial problem of finding ways to motivate players in a sandbox. People say "make the game more fun to play instead of forcing me to log in for my 10K SP" but what exactly does "more fun" look like? ... if they can't figure that one out what the hell am I paying them for. I mean it is literally their job Problem is, Lugh, there are a lot of voices on the forums who feel EVE should be a particular way and that it should never change. It's gotta be tough to satisfy those people whilst making EVE more fun to play. "EVE should be more fun"... ...for whom? Just so we're clear here: you're saying that warping to a hi-sec belt, killing one rat that's exactly the same rat as we have now, and getting a vastly disproportionate reward for it, is your idea of "fun"? "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
Indahmawar Fazmarai 5052	Posted - 2016.04.16 18:17:04 - [1801] - Quote Malcanis wrote: Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote: Tomika wrote: Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Tomika wrote: CCP has the perennial problem of finding ways to motivate players in a sandbox. People say "make the game more fun to play instead of forcing me to log in for my 10K SP" but what exactly does "more fun" look like? ... if they can't figure that one out what the hell am I paying them for. I mean it is literally their job Problem is, Lugh, there are a lot of voices on the forums who feel EVE should be a particular way and that it should never change. It's gotta be tough to satisfy those people whilst making EVE more fun to play. "EVE should be more fun"... ...for whom? Just so we're clear here: you're saying that warping to a hi-sec belt, killing one rat that's exactly the same rat as we have now, and getting a vastly disproportionate reward for it, is your idea of "fun"? No. I am saying that getting 10,000 free SP just for playing my way, each day, is nice with me. It's literally money for nothing for me. I mean, I even shoot rats in belts while mining. I rarely log off without killing a NPC. And now CCP wants to give me 10,000 free SP each day for it? Bring it on! Dailies are not about EVE being fun. They're a bribe to bear with how unfun it is. It's like saying "here, have unlimited coffee while you eat our poorly done breakfast".
Ashlar Vellum PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 235	Posted - 2016.04.16 19:54:33 - [1802] - Quote Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote: No. I am saying that getting 10,000 free SP just for playing my way, each day, is nice with me. It's literally money for nothing for me. I mean, I even shoot rats in belts while mining. I rarely log off without killing a NPC. And now CCP wants to give me 10,000 free SP each day for it? Bring it on! Dailies are not about EVE being fun. They're a bribe to bear with how unfun it is. It's like saying "here, have unlimited coffee while you eat our poorly done breakfast". That's like mouse eating a cactus gets a "attaboy" every time it's done eating. Why are you doing what you explicitly characterized as "not fun and poorly done"?
Ashterothi Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 381	Posted - 2016.04.16 19:54:59 - [1803] - Quote Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Ashterothi wrote: Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Tomika wrote: CCP has the perennial problem of finding ways to motivate players in a sandbox. People say "make the game more fun to play instead of forcing me to log in for my 10K SP" but what exactly does "more fun" look like? ... if they can't figure that one out what the hell am I paying them for. I mean it is literally their job This is one of the most difficult design challenges available. What we are discussing is an unobtrusive and elegant way of controlling thousands of humans behavior. These problems are extremely complex, and many videogames have suffered greatly by incorrect answers to 'simple' design problems. You are paying them to provide you a service, and to continue to wrestle with how to make that service better. However, this cannot be done in a vacuum, or without missteps, as no one is perfect. Critiquing the design is useful, insulting the task, or the person, is not. Lol that wasn't my intention what I meant by that is I expect a rocket engineer to get their craft into space but I'm not qualified to tell them how. But I can point them to attempts in the past that did not do well and others that did. One thing they could do is fix industry teams in know the short time they were out they got me to log in several times a day to check in and modify bids all without making me feel like I was being made to unnaturally. I understand your point. However, it came across as "I pay them money, they should know how to do it well." and while it is true that rocket scientists are highly trained, and probably the most qualified people on the planet to get a rocket into space, it doesn't make the problem of warp drive any easier to figure out. Listen to Hydrostatic Podcast for all your Empyrean needs!
Erebus 'TheChin' Sundance Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 6	Posted - 2016.04.16 19:58:55 - [1804] - Quote What a spiffing idea! I log in pretty much every day as it is, but this will really help us newer players get some extra skill points, the skill injectors are way to pricey for anyone but the elite brigade, probably the same chaps that are poo pooing this stupendous idea. Thanks for thinking about the big picture CCP.
Lugh Crow-Slave 2168	Posted - 2016.04.16 20:19:33 - [1805] - Quote Erebus 'TheChin' Sundance wrote: What a spiffing idea! I log in pretty much every day as it is, but this will really help us newer players get some extra skill points, the skill injectors are way to pricey for anyone but the elite brigade, probably the same chaps that are poo pooing this stupendous idea. Thanks for thinking about the big picture CCP. Yes We are old and bitter and just can't stand the idea of new players getting sp. It's why none of us in this thread put up better ideas for me players to get sp of there was an issue with it Citadel worm hole tax
Lugh Crow-Slave 2168	Posted - 2016.04.16 20:28:43 - [1806] - Quote Ashterothi wrote: I understand your point. However, it came across as "I pay them money, they should know how to do it well." and while it is true that rocket scientists are highly trained, and probably the most qualified people on the planet to get a rocket into space, it doesn't make the problem of warp drive any easier to figure out. Lol with how disrespectful rises last comment was I'm not bothered if mine came off that way. As fir the paying thing that was directed more at the point of, I'm paying them to provide me a service yet with this change they are expecting their customers to provide them with the service of increasing their numbers in one of the most appallingly artifishal ways. Particularly when once again we have seen they know how to do it better Teams were better The queue was better Industry jobs are better POS fuel is better. Something else they could do is missions or escalations that go on for multiple days. Say you turn something in to a research agent and they tell you they will have the results tomorrow. Turns out its a map to a pirate hq that is rumored to have rare loot or a high ranking officer is hold up there. Make then hard and require team work. (Look now you ate getting their friends to log in and I didn't need sp to do it) You could even do similar things with data and relic sites Citadel worm hole tax
Ashterothi Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 381	Posted - 2016.04.16 20:55:33 - [1807] - Quote Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Ashterothi wrote: I understand your point. However, it came across as "I pay them money, they should know how to do it well." and while it is true that rocket scientists are highly trained, and probably the most qualified people on the planet to get a rocket into space, it doesn't make the problem of warp drive any easier to figure out. Lol with how disrespectful rises last comment was I'm not bothered if mine came off that way. As fir the paying thing that was directed more at the point of, I'm paying them to provide me a service yet with this change they are expecting their customers to provide them with the service of increasing their numbers in one of the most appallingly artifishal ways. Particularly when once again we have seen they know how to do it better Teams were better The queue was better Industry jobs are better POS fuel is better. Something else they could do is missions or escalations that go on for multiple days. Say you turn something in to a research agent and they tell you they will have the results tomorrow. Turns out its a map to a pirate hq that is rumored to have rare loot or a high ranking officer is hold up there. Make then hard and require team work. (Look now you ate getting their friends to log in and I didn't need sp to do it) Make it so the info is only good for x amount of days You could even do similar things with data and relic sites As you can tell by reading what I wrote about it, I don't disagree with you in principle. However it is just as important that our messaging to CCP be of high quality, as the opposite is true. Listen to Hydrostatic Podcast for all your Empyrean needs!
Verdis deMosays The Gold Angels Sixth Empire 117	Posted - 2016.04.16 21:48:17 - [1808] - Quote Don't do dailies. I played WoW since Wrath, and hated feeling like I was chained to dailies on my characters. It gives a feel of "do this thing, or know you're not doing what you should be." It's not appealing, just grindy. It's a turnoff in WoW, and Eve is as far from wow as you can get. Don't ruin the flavor. Don't do dailies.
Shallanna Yassavi Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 140	Posted - 2016.04.16 21:56:50 - [1809] - Quote Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote: Tomika wrote: Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Tomika wrote: CCP has the perennial problem of finding ways to motivate players in a sandbox. People say "make the game more fun to play instead of forcing me to log in for my 10K SP" but what exactly does "more fun" look like? ... if they can't figure that one out what the hell am I paying them for. I mean it is literally their job Problem is, Lugh, there are a lot of voices on the forums who feel EVE should be a particular way and that it should never change. It's gotta be tough to satisfy those people whilst making EVE more fun to play. "EVE should be more fun"... ...for whom? For anyone who wants to go out and find it. It's a big universe. It's just that most of us stick our toes into different corners and find a few things we just keep doing. A signature :o
Shakira Akira Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 20	Posted - 2016.04.16 22:02:21 - [1810] - Quote Drago Shouna wrote: Shakira Akira wrote: Erihn Sabrovich wrote: CCP has to care about ALL OF ITS CUSTOMERS, not only about the older one... They look at stats and comments from ALL players and ponder the whole thing. They could have ended with decaying SP (after X time without connexion, you'd start to lose SP) but they didn't... They were even going to give the same amount of SP to every players and not a decreasing return like you can see with injectors. Except if you look at the trend in the video game industry, you will notice that games are leaning towards the instant gratification vice long term planning and forethought.. THE VERY REASON that the game EvE managed to survive because people that didn't want to play the kiddy games came to play here instead, where your actions really mattered. With some of the temper tantrums in this thread some of them should go back to kids games. How some haven't got at the least a lengthy forum ban is beyond me after the abuse they are giving out towards the devs. Not sure how you interpret that as tempter tantrum. Nor how it's abusive. I'm merely stating a point that the hardcore and difficulty of the game is what brought in the players. Not an "easy" button. And a lot of people are already pointing out the "chore" that making a daily that rewards 4hours worth of SP will turn into. (not to mention how it will mess up the market for injectors and PLEX considering how much more "free SP" will be available to rip out and sell.
Vanislevagabond Edge Of Infinity True Reign 3	Posted - 2016.04.16 22:03:23 - [1811] - Quote CCP ; "Our numbers are down, lets pay players to log in, we have already devalued isk, but sp's still valuable. Not as much as before injectors , but if we pay directly to characters more should log in. So what if it devalues the time older players have invested in the game. So what it devalues sp's going forward. So what if the main difference between Eve and lesser mmo's out there is lost. We need numbers and paying players to log in for 5 mins. to kill a rat will buff them." Shame on you CCP.
Lugh Crow-Slave 2172	Posted - 2016.04.16 22:31:50 - [1812] - Quote Vanislevagabond wrote: CCP ; "Our numbers are down, lets pay players to log in, we have already devalued isk, but sp's still valuable. Not as much as before injectors , but if we pay directly to characters more should log in. So what if it devalues the time older players have invested in the game. So what it devalues sp's going forward. So what if the main difference between Eve and lesser mmo's out there is lost. We need numbers and paying players to log in for 5 mins. to kill a rat will buff them." Shame on you CCP. It doesn't devalue the sp of older players or devalues the sp of all players Citadel worm hole tax
Ravcharas Infinite Point Violence of Action. 488	Posted - 2016.04.16 23:29:46 - [1813] - Quote Burning out; no longer just for moon logistics and jump freighter pilots
Lugh Crow-Slave 2174	Posted - 2016.04.16 23:48:40 - [1814] - Quote Ravcharas wrote: Burning out; no longer just for moon logistics and jump freighter pilots *finds logistics relaxing and now feels ashamed Citadel worm hole tax
FT Diomedes The Graduates 2516	Posted - 2016.04.16 23:57:35 - [1815] - Quote Ravcharas wrote: Burning out; no longer just for moon logistics and jump freighter pilots I am on hour ten of lighting cynos today. I hear there are fun, interesting things to do in Eve, but not going to have time to do any of them today. Which leads me to my newest idea... Instead of killing a rat, every player should have to light a cyno once a day. CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.
Lugh Crow-Slave 2174	Posted - 2016.04.17 00:08:53 - [1816] - Quote FT Diomedes wrote: Ravcharas wrote: Burning out; no longer just for moon logistics and jump freighter pilots I am on hour ten of lighting cynos today. I hear there are fun, interesting things to do in Eve, but not going to have time to do any of them today. Which leads me to my newest idea... Instead of killing a rat, every player should have to light a cyno once a day. At least that kind of tedium has a meaning to it and adds to the value of other things done in the game. Lol Citadel worm hole tax
Nevyn Auscent Broke Sauce 3182	Posted - 2016.04.17 04:27:27 - [1817] - Quote Tomika wrote: CCP has the perennial problem of finding ways to motivate players in a sandbox. People say "make the game more fun to play instead of forcing me to log in for my 10K SP" but what exactly does "more fun" look like? To answer that challenge here are some ideas. Dynamic NPC creation: Currently every NPC is hard coded, we can look it's stats up on several databases. Instead have NPC's use ship hulls, and then add fittings in a kitset manner. Mostly respecting player fitting limits. Differences in fit can be explained by non commercial capsuleer pods, or totally no pod at all in the case of weaker NPC's. Now NPC's aren't as boring because they change more. Dynamic Missions & sites. Further from above (which already causes Missions to be more dynamic since you can't be 100% sure of the opponents anymore, just general ideas), create mission sites from kitsets so that the 100th time you rescue the damsel is not the exact same as the other 99 times. Create more varied & even multiple objectives as well as multiple ways to solve the problem. If there are 5 ways to rescue the damsel, 20 random secondary objectives that appear, and the NPCs change a bit each time, then it's not going to feel the same mission, even if the same text is employed. Fuzzy information. Currently we get perfect information. Local shows exactly who is in our system, deep scan shows their exact ship class, overview shows their exact name tied with ship type. Make this fuzzy, Constellation chat only tells you who is in the region, chat delays mean you can't assume the list is perfect, deep scan could only show ship size. Fuzzy information makes more room for bad choices to occur, and bad choices are actually where things get exciting, because now your planned gank of a helpless victim has suddenly turned into a close fight. Three easy ways to make things more fun, interesting and ENGAGING. Engaging is the big one, that's what actually makes people stay logged in and playing the game. Logging in to do a repetitive daily quest fails on all of those factors, It's simply a grind to get the new daily SP limit. And grinding for SP is bad for many reasons.
Indahmawar Fazmarai 5056	Posted - 2016.04.17 07:51:17 - [1818] - Quote Ashlar Vellum wrote: Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote: No. I am saying that getting 10,000 free SP just for playing my way, each day, is nice with me. It's literally money for nothing for me. I mean, I even shoot rats in belts while mining. I rarely log off without killing a NPC. And now CCP wants to give me 10,000 free SP each day for it? Bring it on! Dailies are not about EVE being fun. They're a bribe to bear with how unfun it is. It's like saying "here, have unlimited coffee while you eat our poorly done breakfast". That's like mouse eating a cactus gets a "attaboy" every time it's done eating. Why are you doing what you explicitly characterized as "not fun and poorly done"? Because I've find my way to enjoy it, with occasional breaks to play funnier but less engaging int he logn run purely PvP games. I started multiplaying online for PvP, and EVE is the only game where I've never done PvP. And that's because of the so vaunted "meaningfulness". EVE's PvP is so meaningful that I avoid it for my own good. This leaves me with PvE, which I wish was a way to PvP by other means rather than be an exercise in "press buton, get bacon, figure what to do with all that effin' bacon until you're so tired of bacon that you need some real fun for a change". The real thing is that I don't need no effin' SP, no effin' ISK, no effin' nothing more from EVE. All I need is know that the old button will be there when I figure another different way to use all that stupid bacon. Now, with extra SP.
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 17669	Posted - 2016.04.17 08:01:17 - [1819] - Quote Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote: Ashlar Vellum wrote: Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote: No. I am saying that getting 10,000 free SP just for playing my way, each day, is nice with me. It's literally money for nothing for me. I mean, I even shoot rats in belts while mining. I rarely log off without killing a NPC. And now CCP wants to give me 10,000 free SP each day for it? Bring it on! Dailies are not about EVE being fun. They're a bribe to bear with how unfun it is. It's like saying "here, have unlimited coffee while you eat our poorly done breakfast". That's like mouse eating a cactus gets a "attaboy" every time it's done eating. Why are you doing what you explicitly characterized as "not fun and poorly done"? Because I've find my way to enjoy it, with occasional breaks to play funnier but less engaging int he logn run purely PvP games. I started multiplaying online for PvP, and EVE is the only game where I've never done PvP. And that's because of the so vaunted "meaningfulness". EVE's PvP is so meaningful that I avoid it for my own good. This leaves me with PvE, which I wish was a way to PvP by other means rather than be an exercise in "press buton, get bacon, figure what to do with all that effin' bacon until you're so tired of bacon that you need some real fun for a change". The real thing is that I don't need no effin' SP, no effin' ISK, no effin' nothing more from EVE. All I need is know that the old button will be there when I figure another different way to use all that stupid bacon. Now, with extra SP. Just how long have you been playing eve and not liking it it while you wait for it to turn into another game? "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
Ria Nieyli 43701	Posted - 2016.04.17 08:18:52 - [1820] - Quote Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote: Because I've find my way to enjoy it, with occasional breaks to play funnier but less engaging int he logn run purely PvP games. I started multiplaying online for PvP, and EVE is the only game where I've never done PvP. And that's because of the so vaunted "meaningfulness". EVE's PvP is so meaningful that I avoid it for my own good. This leaves me with PvE, which I wish was a way to PvP by other means rather than be an exercise in "press buton, get bacon, figure what to do with all that effin' bacon until you're so tired of bacon that you need some real fun for a change". The real thing is that I don't need no effin' SP, no effin' ISK, no effin' nothing more from EVE. All I need is know that the old button will be there when I figure another different way to use all that stupid bacon. Now, with extra SP. Mate, at first I thought you were a bit of a ledge when you told me to get off my PvP high horse, but now you're just being cheeky. Lot of the lads playing EVE have this mindset, unfortunately. "slang" is shortened language for "shortened language"
Indahmawar Fazmarai 5056	Posted - 2016.04.17 08:35:00 - [1821] - Quote Ria Nieyli wrote: Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote: Because I've find my way to enjoy it, with occasional breaks to play funnier but less engaging int he logn run purely PvP games. I started multiplaying online for PvP, and EVE is the only game where I've never done PvP. And that's because of the so vaunted "meaningfulness". EVE's PvP is so meaningful that I avoid it for my own good. This leaves me with PvE, which I wish was a way to PvP by other means rather than be an exercise in "press buton, get bacon, figure what to do with all that effin' bacon until you're so tired of bacon that you need some real fun for a change". The real thing is that I don't need no effin' SP, no effin' ISK, no effin' nothing more from EVE. All I need is know that the old button will be there when I figure another different way to use all that stupid bacon. Now, with extra SP. Mate, at first I thought you were a bit of a ledge when you told me to get off my PvP high horse, but now you're just being cheeky. Lot of the lads playing EVE have this mindset, unfortunately. Now you lost me completely with that ledge and cheeky thing, I'm not making any sense of your post.
Ria Nieyli 43701	Posted - 2016.04.17 08:38:01 - [1822] - Quote Well, it's always like this, some lad who thinks he's the Archbishop of Banterbury proper comes along and starts posting like a right tone-deaf crotch dragon, telling you off for doing something ingame... nothing you can do but make yourself a cuppa and nod. "slang" is shortened language for "shortened language"
Indahmawar Fazmarai 5056	Posted - 2016.04.17 08:45:50 - [1823] - Quote Malcanis wrote: Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote: Ashlar Vellum wrote: Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote: No. I am saying that getting 10,000 free SP just for playing my way, each day, is nice with me. It's literally money for nothing for me. I mean, I even shoot rats in belts while mining. I rarely log off without killing a NPC. And now CCP wants to give me 10,000 free SP each day for it? Bring it on! Dailies are not about EVE being fun. They're a bribe to bear with how unfun it is. It's like saying "here, have unlimited coffee while you eat our poorly done breakfast". That's like mouse eating a cactus gets a "attaboy" every time it's done eating. Why are you doing what you explicitly characterized as "not fun and poorly done"? Because I've find my way to enjoy it, with occasional breaks to play funnier but less engaging int he logn run purely PvP games. I started multiplaying online for PvP, and EVE is the only game where I've never done PvP. And that's because of the so vaunted "meaningfulness". EVE's PvP is so meaningful that I avoid it for my own good. This leaves me with PvE, which I wish was a way to PvP by other means rather than be an exercise in "press buton, get bacon, figure what to do with all that effin' bacon until you're so tired of bacon that you need some real fun for a change". The real thing is that I don't need no effin' SP, no effin' ISK, no effin' nothing more from EVE. All I need is know that the old button will be there when I figure another different way to use all that stupid bacon. Now, with extra SP. Just how long have you been playing eve and not liking it it while you wait for it to turn into another game? Just before this thread wanders off... oh wait. Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote: Before the thread wanders off, I will try to abridge my "agenda" in few words. EVE population is going down because loses more players than earns. The main source of lost players is PvE, which is both the most popular specialization and the one with poorest retention. Poor retention is caused by the limited nature of PvE content and the lack of socialization. Socialization can't be adressed since players who play alone have reasons to do so. The PvE content is limited because it is created by CCP and consumed passively by players. To extend PvE content and keep PvE players interested, PvE content must be generated by players.Thus PvE needs the abbility to inlfuence other players. That will increase the retention of PvE players by giving them continuously fresh PvE content. That increase in retention will be boosted by how the new gameplay can also gain players uninterested in the existing gameplay. Must be noted that this only plugs the PvE hole. PvP also haves its own issues (specially in nullsec), but then, PvP is not my trade in EVE.
Ria Nieyli 43701	Posted - 2016.04.17 08:50:15 - [1824] - Quote So riddle me this. You told me that my opinion doesn't matter because I PvP. And now you expect me to take your opinion seriously. No. Just no. "slang" is shortened language for "shortened language"
Indahmawar Fazmarai 5056	Posted - 2016.04.17 09:05:23 - [1825] - Quote Ria Nieyli wrote: Well, it's always like this, some lad who thinks he's the Archbishop of Banterbury proper comes along and starts posting like a right tone-deaf crotch dragon, telling you off for doing something ingame... nothing you can do but make yourself a cuppa and nod. It was you who stated that people would leave if PvE was improved even by something as tiny as a daily reward: Ria Nieyli wrote: And then people will leave. It's just how it works when you alter the product away from what your core userbase likes in it. People are leaving because the core userbase is being backburned in favor of PvP content which only helps a small part of the userbase. As I said, PvP may be the brand, but the product is PvE. So maybe dailies tarnish the brand but they will help the product a tiny bit.
Ria Nieyli 43701	Posted - 2016.04.17 09:09:42 - [1826] - Quote Let me paraphrase. You chaffed out that right load of bollocks already. It's too late to say anything. You're dead to me now. "slang" is shortened language for "shortened language"
Indahmawar Fazmarai 5056	Posted - 2016.04.17 09:14:25 - [1827] - Quote Ria Nieyli wrote: So riddle me this. You told me that my opinion doesn't matter because I PvP. And now you expect me to take your opinion seriously. No. Just no. No. I told you to stop being arrogant as you are worng to think that PvP is the core of the game and improving PvE is detrimental to EVE because "moves the product away from the core userbase". Frankly, I am still struggling with the impression that PvPrs are just crying because someone got a toy and it's not them for a change. I wonder how many would be silent if there was a equivalent SP reward for the first PvP kill of the day, even as it is so easily exploitable that even CCP noticed.
Indahmawar Fazmarai 5056	Posted - 2016.04.17 09:22:19 - [1828] - Quote Ria Nieyli wrote: Let me paraphrase. You chaffed out that right load of bollocks already. It's too late to say anything. You're dead to me now. I think there's been some misunderstanding somewhere and I would rather be in good terms with a fellow LAGLer, but sometimes I just happen to offend or harm people for reasons I don't understand. So will just stop this here. I am sincerely worried to have hurt you over this, so if that is the case, be assured that it was not my intent.
Erihn Sabrovich 11	Posted - 2016.04.17 10:36:48 - [1829] - Quote Ria Nieyli wrote: Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: lol that's the problem no one or at least not enough will leave and ccp know this Really? Why do you think there has been a decline in the recent years then? - New players are more looking for F2P now... EVE still requires to buy the game and pay monthly which is becoming unpopular... Even games like Lineage 2 and Everquest switched to F2P model !!! - Not enough new content... Thinking that wars and other PvP actions is new content is delusion... New content is new ships (allowing new strategies, new fits, ...), new missions, new modules, ... Citadels are new content and made many corp team to gather the ressources to build their own for example... POCO in HS were the same... But new content is very scarse leading to some burn out... - People getting older... getting married, having children, more responsibilities at work, ... leading to less time to play - Real world crisis... more and more people have to cut their expenses... which includes pay to play online games - New game genre attracting people : although not new in Japan, we see more people getting interrested in Visual Novels in Europe and US, MOBA (DOTA 2, LoL, HotS, ...) are grabbing more and more players, ... times change and gamers interests change too. and so on...
Mizhir TURN LEFT 74736	Posted - 2016.04.17 10:53:39 - [1830] - Quote Erihn Sabrovich wrote: - People getting older... getting married, having children, more responsibilities at work, ... leading to less time to play Ohh yay, lets **** off these players by making them log in each day. One Man Crew - Collective Solo PVP - Video is out!
Erihn Sabrovich 11	Posted - 2016.04.17 11:20:09 - [1831] - Quote Ria Nieyli wrote: So riddle me this. You told me that my opinion doesn't matter because I PvP. And now you expect me to take your opinion seriously. No. Just no. Somehow, it's not far related to reality... EVE has a PvE problem... not a PvP one... So, as you're PvP, you are probably not conscious about the PvE situation well... Don't forget that PvP players are leeching on the PvE work : miners, explorers, industrials, ... Without them, you'd not be able to buy your ships, modules, ammunitions, ... You like to call PvE players "carebears" and to feel superior... but they are far more important than yourself for the survivability of the game... Without PvP, EVE could go on. Without PvE, EVE is dead !!! And SP is something which is lacking to many PvE players... You may go PvP with a simple frigate but to be able to do something of value PvE-wise, you need bigger ships... Mining with a Venture takes ages... Reprocessing takes month of training... Exploration may also be quite needy... And I strongly doubt that you'd be able to do L3-L4 missions with a Frigate... Dailies may not be the answer (I think that Rift-like events would be more adapted to bring fun in EVE's world)... but there is a need to bring things to PvE players...
Erihn Sabrovich 11	Posted - 2016.04.17 11:22:53 - [1832] - Quote Mizhir wrote: Erihn Sabrovich wrote: - People getting older... getting married, having children, more responsibilities at work, ... leading to less time to play Ohh yay, lets **** off these players by making them log in each day. Less time to play usually leads to playing casual games instead of games like MMO which require huge investisement in time. So these are lost anyway...
Eli Porter Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde 27	Posted - 2016.04.17 11:27:16 - [1833] - Quote Erihn Sabrovich wrote: Mizhir wrote: Erihn Sabrovich wrote: - People getting older... getting married, having children, more responsibilities at work, ... leading to less time to play Ohh yay, lets **** off these players by making them log in each day. Less time to play usually leads to playing casual games instead of games like MMO which require huge investisement in time. So these are lost anyway... EVE doesn't require a huge investment in time. I log in a few times a week for scheduled fleet content and fun roams, that's pretty much it.
Erihn Sabrovich 11	Posted - 2016.04.17 11:39:18 - [1834] - Quote Eli Porter wrote: Erihn Sabrovich wrote: Mizhir wrote: Erihn Sabrovich wrote: - People getting older... getting married, having children, more responsibilities at work, ... leading to less time to play Ohh yay, lets **** off these players by making them log in each day. Less time to play usually leads to playing casual games instead of games like MMO which require huge investisement in time. So these are lost anyway... EVE doesn't require a huge investment in time. I log in a few times a week for scheduled fleet content and fun roams, that's pretty much it. - Scheduled - a few times a week - fun roams You said it all - you don't chose the times, they are scheduled - casual players sometimes stay 1-2 weeks without playing... - roams means that you're logged-in for more than 1/2h Casual gaming is about - playing when you've time to do it - being able to stop immediately without consequence (if the baby is crying, you should be able to be immediately AFK for unknown time for example) - being able to play for length as small as 10-15 minutes
sero Hita Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 159	Posted - 2016.04.17 11:45:50 - [1835] - Quote Erihn Sabrovich wrote: Don't forget that PvP players are leeching on the PvE work : miners, explorers, industrials, ... Without them, you'd not be able to buy your ships, modules, ammunitions, ... You like to call PvE players "carebears" and to feel superior... but they are far more important than yourself for the survivability of the game... Without PvP, EVE could go on. Without PvE, EVE is dead !!! Actually both types of players are pretty valuable, and are interconnected. Extra credits have made these interesting episodes about player types and how they affect each other, and how they help make balance in a MMOs. Sure it is little bit exaggerated, but I find the general ideas interesting. "I'm all for pvp, don't get me wrong. I've ganked in Empire, blobed in low sec. Got T-shirts from every which-where.. But to be forced into a pvp confrontation that I didn't want is wrong ccp." RealFlisker
Geronimo McVain McVain's Minning and Exploration Inc 30	Posted - 2016.04.17 11:57:43 - [1836] - Quote Eve doesn't fit in today. There is no problem with huge time consuming games as WOW and other are showing. There are also no problems with hard games, Dark Souls is selling really good. There are also no problems with complex games as simulations always sell fine. Eve's problem is, that is has huge problems breaking down the complex contend to easy manageable levels. First and most prominent example is the fitting window. But it goes on and on. If you are not careful you can "optimize" the mission goals out of the overview. You have to carefully check the overview to find you mission goals. An automated overview that shows mission specific things while you are doing missions and showing astroids when you are in a mining barge in a belt? A structured overview of your PI`s? A warning when the extractor timer runs out or a storage fills up? Bookmarks on the map? Quickbuttons on the map to show your favorite settings? ......... EVE has an UI Problem. Excel in Space really hits it. Customizing the overview, one of the central information tools, is more an art then anything else. Choosing modules is a pain cause you have to klick each one to see the exakt values etc.... There is nothing wrong with the game mechanics but the access is unnecessarily difficult. THATS Eves problem. People want deep gameplay but please with an easy access interface.
Lugh Crow-Slave 2184	Posted - 2016.04.17 12:03:25 - [1837] - Quote Geronimo McVain wrote: Eve doesn't fit in today. There is no problem with huge time consuming games as WOW and other are showing. There are also no problems with hard games, Dark Souls is selling really good. There are also no problems with complex games as simulations always sell fine. Eve's problem is, that is has huge problems breaking down the complex contend to easy manageable levels. First and most prominent example is the fitting window. But it goes on and on. If you are not careful you can "optimize" the mission goals out of the overview. You have to carefully check the overview to find you mission goals. An automated overview that shows mission specific things while you are doing missions and showing astroids when you are in a mining barge in a belt? A structured overview of your PI`s? A warning when the extractor timer runs out or a storage fills up? Bookmarks on the map? Quickbuttons on the map to show your favorite settings? ......... EVE has an UI Problem. Excel in Space really hits it. Customizing the overview, one of the central information tools, is more an art then anything else. Choosing modules is a pain cause you have to klick each one to see the exakt values etc.... There is nothing wrong with the game mechanics but the access is unnecessarily difficult. THATS Eves problem. People want deep gameplay but please with an easy access interface. And it's something dailies will not solve Maybe if ccp could give us am update on ghost fitting that seems to have been abandoned Citadel worm hole tax
Erihn Sabrovich 11	Posted - 2016.04.17 12:07:23 - [1838] - Quote sero Hita wrote: Erihn Sabrovich wrote: Don't forget that PvP players are leeching on the PvE work : miners, explorers, industrials, ... Without them, you'd not be able to buy your ships, modules, ammunitions, ... You like to call PvE players "carebears" and to feel superior... but they are far more important than yourself for the survivability of the game... Without PvP, EVE could go on. Without PvE, EVE is dead !!! Actually both types of players are pretty valuable, and are interconnected. Extra credits have made these interesting episodes about player types and how they affect each other, and how they help make balance in a MMOs. Sure it is little bit exaggerated, but I find the general ideas interesting. What I meant is not about the balance on the 4 kind of players but something directly linked to EVE mechanics : Nearly every thing that you can use has to be built by players or farmed by players If we take the amount of "stuff" (ships, modules, ammunitions), most PvE players are CREATING stuff while PvP players are destroying it. There is a small drain present in PvE... you may lose your ship to NPC, when you reprocess something, some of the materials is lost, ... That drain may easily be increased (more difficult missions for example). And you find a big drain in PvP (each kill result in most of the stuff lost). But, as far as "stuff" creation exists it's nearly only on the PvE side. PvP MAY get some LP which allow to buy some things from NPC but this is quire marginal... On the other side, Miners (ore), industrials (ships, modules,...), explorers (datacores, salvage, ...), missionners (ships, modules, LP, salvage) bring lots of new "stuff". If you remove the PvP (or strongly deacrease it), there will still be drains (and these may be made stronger) on the PvE side... but if you remove the PvE side, stuff in EVE will quickly be destroyed and EVE economy reach a stop. This is a consequence of the "everything is built by players" stance... And introducing NPC shops for every single module and ship would probably kill EVE quickly too...
Mizhir TURN LEFT 74736	Posted - 2016.04.17 12:16:14 - [1839] - Quote Erihn Sabrovich wrote: Eli Porter wrote: Erihn Sabrovich wrote: Mizhir wrote: Erihn Sabrovich wrote: - People getting older... getting married, having children, more responsibilities at work, ... leading to less time to play Ohh yay, lets **** off these players by making them log in each day. Less time to play usually leads to playing casual games instead of games like MMO which require huge investisement in time. So these are lost anyway... EVE doesn't require a huge investment in time. I log in a few times a week for scheduled fleet content and fun roams, that's pretty much it. - Scheduled - a few times a week - fun roams You said it all - you don't chose the times, they are scheduled - casual players sometimes stay 1-2 weeks without playing... - roams means that you're logged-in for more than 1/2h Casual gaming is about - playing when you've time to do it - being able to stop immediately without consequence (if the baby is crying, you should be able to be immediately AFK for unknown time for example) - being able to play for length as small as 10-15 minutes You are aware that the typical EVE players are much older than many other MMOs/games? I know plenty of people who plays EVE once in a while when they can set aside a few hours for roaming or other activities. In my previous corp (Matari Exodus) we typically arranged 2-3 days each week where most of us could play and went roaming there. And the rest of the days we didn't have to think about EVE. So that was indeed Scheduled, a few times a week, AND fun roams. And we still had what I would call a casual approach to it despite not living up to your arbitrary list about casual gaming. Many people have the illusion that you have to sink countless of hours into EVE in order to achieve anything but the truth is that if you are good at planing and managing your ingame activities you can get far without having to log in that often. And there are plenty of playstyles that can allow you this. The SP system itself is one of the things that makes EVE a suitable game for people who can't put in that many hours. You will still progress even when you aren't logged in. Sure, a player with plenty of game hours per week will be able to farm more isk, but he will most likely also spend more of it since he will roam more as well. One Man Crew - Collective Solo PVP - Video is out!
Mizhara Del'thul Kyn'aldrnari 741	Posted - 2016.04.17 12:17:14 - [1840] - Quote If you think industry and trade is anything but PvP, you've kind of missed the point of how Eve works. Edit: Hurr, ninja'd.
Lugh Crow-Slave 2185	Posted - 2016.04.17 12:20:11 - [1841] - Quote Erihn Sabrovich wrote: sero Hita wrote: Erihn Sabrovich wrote: Don't forget that PvP players are leeching on the PvE work : miners, explorers, industrials, ... Without them, you'd not be able to buy your ships, modules, ammunitions, ... You like to call PvE players "carebears" and to feel superior... but they are far more important than yourself for the survivability of the game... Without PvP, EVE could go on. Without PvE, EVE is dead !!! Actually both types of players are pretty valuable, and are interconnected. Extra credits have made these interesting episodes about player types and how they affect each other, and how they help make balance in a MMOs. Sure it is little bit exaggerated, but I find the general ideas interesting. What I meant is not about the balance on the 4 kind of players but something directly linked to EVE mechanics : Nearly every thing that you can use has to be built by players or farmed by players If we take the amount of "stuff" (ships, modules, ammunitions), most PvE players are CREATING stuff while PvP players are destroying it. There is a small drain present in PvE... you may lose your ship to NPC, when you reprocess something, some of the materials is lost, ... That drain may easily be increased (more difficult missions for example). And you find a big drain in PvP (each kill result in most of the stuff lost). But, as far as "stuff" creation exists it's nearly only on the PvE side. PvP MAY get some LP which allow to buy some things from NPC but this is quire marginal... On the other side, Miners (ore), industrials (ships, modules,...), explorers (datacores, salvage, ...), missionners (ships, modules, LP, salvage) bring lots of new "stuff". If you remove the PvP (or strongly deacrease it), there will still be drains (and these may be made stronger) on the PvE side... but if you remove the PvE side, stuff in EVE will quickly be destroyed and EVE economy reach a stop. This is a consequence of the "everything is built by players" stance... And introducing NPC shops for every single module and ship would probably kill EVE quickly too... I really don't understand this artifisial divided between pvp and pve everything in eve is a form of pvp. There is no one who actively plays eve that does not take part in pvp. Ship on ship pvp is also needed to add value to non combat parts of eve. But anyway none of this pvp vs pve thing has anything to do with dailies they ate bad for both Same with the new player vs old player argument Citadel worm hole tax
Erihn Sabrovich 11	Posted - 2016.04.17 12:31:56 - [1842] - Quote Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: I really don't understand this artifisial divided between pvp and pve everything in eve is a form of pvp. There is no one who actively plays eve that does not take part in pvp. Ship on ship pvp is also needed to add value to non combat parts of eve. But anyway none of this pvp vs pve thing has anything to do with dailies they ate bad for both Same with the new player vs old player argument Well, it was initially as an answer to someone who was arguing about it's PvP status affecting the meaningfulness of it's position. It's true that trading may be felt like some sort of "PvP"... but here, it's only word-play... PvP in EVE is when several player-owned ships fight each other. What makes EVE unique is the fact that it's economy is fully player-driven... You can find lots of PvP games but most/none of them has that "all created by player" stance... And many PvP players feel superior to PvE players, calling them carebears and such... To PvE-players, amount of SP is more critical than to PvP-players. As it has been pointed quite often by many people, you can PvP efficiently with low-cost, low-skill ships... And it'll be as fun as with other bigger ships as you choose target of the same size-range... But for PvE, SP are the key to new content (higher level missions, T2 production rentability, ...) More SP is much more important to PvE players... And these "dailies" will profit them the most... And for many PvE players, the goal of these dailies is something that they do anyway (miners, missionners, combat-exploration). This is a fact that is overlooked by most of the people who are having a tantrum about these dailies...
sero Hita Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 161	Posted - 2016.04.17 12:37:37 - [1843] - Quote Erihn Sabrovich wrote: What I meant is not about the balance on the 4 kind of players but something directly linked to EVE mechanics : Nearly every thing that you can use has to be built by players or farmed by players If we take the amount of "stuff" (ships, modules, ammunitions), most PvE players are CREATING stuff while PvP players are destroying it. There is a small drain present in PvE... you may lose your ship to NPC, when you reprocess something, some of the materials is lost, ... That drain may easily be increased (more difficult missions for example). And you find a big drain in PvP (each kill result in most of the stuff lost). But, as far as "stuff" creation exists it's nearly only on the PvE side. PvP MAY get some LP which allow to buy some things from NPC but this is quire marginal... On the other side, Miners (ore), industrials (ships, modules,...), explorers (datacores, salvage, ...), missionners (ships, modules, LP, salvage) bring lots of new "stuff". If you remove the PvP (or strongly deacrease it), there will still be drains (and these may be made stronger) on the PvE side... but if you remove the PvE side, stuff in EVE will quickly be destroyed and EVE economy reach a stop. This is a consequence of the "everything is built by players" stance... And introducing NPC shops for every single module and ship would probably kill EVE quickly too... You don't think any of the PVP'ers also create stuff (Ratting, exploration, manufactoring, mining, PI etc.) to earn enough to PVP? That is why these type of discussions are so tedious, as there would always be someone to produce modules and other stuff, even if people who only do PVE leaves. The profits as supply drops would be too tempting to ignore. And as a side note (with the two videos in mind) I think all the focus on PVP from CCPs side, is their way to make the population healthy again (According to CCP). Increase the amount of PVP players to trim the fat of the achievers (pure PVE'ers) to get the balance of players they want. For a MMO that try to sell itself as an PVP sandbox, it has quite a lot of non pvp'ers (62% some people claim). One way to gain this balance is to buff PVP, and loose some (not all ofc.) of the pure PVE'ers. "I'm all for pvp, don't get me wrong. I've ganked in Empire, blobed in low sec. Got T-shirts from every which-where.. But to be forced into a pvp confrontation that I didn't want is wrong ccp." RealFlisker
Eli Porter Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde 27	Posted - 2016.04.17 12:40:00 - [1844] - Quote Erihn Sabrovich wrote: You said it all - you don't chose the times, they are scheduled - casual players sometimes stay 1-2 weeks without playing... - roams means that you're logged-in for more than 1/2h Mate, we have like 100 scheduled ops a week. I pick and choose what I want to join, and I don't lose progress if I don't. Quote: Casual gaming is about - playing when you've time to do it And since I can join a fleet at any time then it's not a problem. Quote: - being able to stop immediately without consequence (if the baby is crying, you should be able to be immediately AFK for unknown time for example) - being able to play for length as small as 10-15 minutes I can fleet up in a cheap fast ship and not lose anything if I have to leave abruptly.
Ria Nieyli 43701	Posted - 2016.04.17 12:42:53 - [1845] - Quote Erihn Sabrovich wrote: Somehow, it's not far related to reality... EVE has a PvE problem... not a PvP one... So, as you're PvP, you are probably not conscious about the PvE situation well... Don't forget that PvP players are leeching on the PvE work : miners, explorers, industrials, ... Without them, you'd not be able to buy your ships, modules, ammunitions, ... You like to call PvE players "carebears" and to feel superior... but they are far more important than yourself for the survivability of the game... Without PvP, EVE could go on. Without PvE, EVE is dead !!! And SP is something which is lacking to many PvE players... You may go PvP with a simple frigate but to be able to do something of value PvE-wise, you need bigger ships... Mining with a Venture takes ages... Reprocessing takes month of training... Exploration may also be quite needy... And I strongly doubt that you'd be able to do L3-L4 missions with a Frigate... Dailies may not be the answer (I think that Rift-like events would be more adapted to bring fun in EVE's world)... but there is a need to bring things to PvE players... I'm speechless. Have you perhaps considered that your anti-me post is based on a false premise? Not that it matters. If the vocal mass of the playerbase is like you, CCP Rise's comment now actually makes sense. "slang" is shortened language for "shortened language"
Lugh Crow-Slave 2185	Posted - 2016.04.17 12:50:34 - [1846] - Quote Erihn Sabrovich wrote: Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: I really don't understand this artifisial divided between pvp and pve everything in eve is a form of pvp. There is no one who actively plays eve that does not take part in pvp. Ship on ship pvp is also needed to add value to non combat parts of eve. But anyway none of this pvp vs pve thing has anything to do with dailies they ate bad for both Same with the new player vs old player argument Well, it was initially as an answer to someone who was arguing about it's PvP status affecting the meaningfulness of it's position. It's true that trading may be felt like some sort of "PvP"... but here, it's only word-play... PvP in EVE is when several player-owned ships fight each other. What makes EVE unique is the fact that it's economy is fully player-driven... You can find lots of PvP games but most/none of them has that "all created by player" stance... And many PvP players feel superior to PvE players, calling them carebears and such... To PvE-players, amount of SP is more critical than to PvP-players. As it has been pointed quite often by many people, you can PvP efficiently with low-cost, low-skill ships... And it'll be as fun as with other bigger ships as you choose target of the same size-range... But for PvE, SP are the key to new content (higher level missions, T2 production rentability, ...) More SP is much more important to PvE players... And these "dailies" will profit them the most... And for many PvE players, the goal of these dailies is something that they do anyway (miners, missionners, combat-exploration). This is a fact that is overlooked by most of the people who are having a tantrum about these dailies... I don't think that's being overlooked we fir the most part are not upset by people getting more SP but how it is being given. Like if ccp came out and said they were going to up base attribute because they felt progression was to show you would not have nearly the number of people upset. We don't like the idea of such an underhanded lazy way of getting people to log on.many of us have cone from games that were not built for dailies and added them in very lazy ways. It works for a short spike but then begins to degrade playerbases. CCP went one step father making them 22hrs after you finish. This means every second you ate not doing the daily or has a far more savvier psychological effect because every second waisted is another second before you can do it again. It's cheap it's underhanded and it is in no way designed to af meaningful grange play. Those in support of it just go "what's wrong with free SP" "or toy don't need to do it I'd you don't want" those are not arguments against why this is bad or arguments why this is good. One is an argument that SP is good the other ignores human psychology and claims it's a neutral change. Citadel worm hole tax
Ria Nieyli 43701	Posted - 2016.04.17 12:55:36 - [1847] - Quote Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Like if ccp came out and said they were going to up base attribute because they felt progression was to show you would not have nearly the number of people upset. The ideal thing would be to remove attribute implants and attributes themselves and set the base training speed to 2700. That won't happen now though, since you have the option of buying skill injectors to compensate for suboptimal training. "slang" is shortened language for "shortened language"
Lugh Crow-Slave 2185	Posted - 2016.04.17 13:04:15 - [1848] - Quote Ria Nieyli wrote: Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Like if ccp came out and said they were going to up base attribute because they felt progression was to show you would not have nearly the number of people upset. The ideal thing would be to remove attribute implants and attributes themselves and set the base training speed to 2700 sp/hour. That won't happen now though, since you have the option of buying skill injectors to compensate for suboptimal training. Lol it was just to make a point that ppl saying this is a good idea because of the sp were missing the problem Citadel worm hole tax
Ria Nieyli 43704	Posted - 2016.04.17 13:09:32 - [1849] - Quote Well, the dailies will just enhance the missing SP problem. Can't log in today? Enjoy your 10,000 SP loss. But don't worry, if you miss any, you can make it back by, you guessed it, buying skill injectors! The most distressing part is that there are people that are clamouring for this sort of thing. And they're being pretty quick to tell me how little I matter for disagreeing with them. "slang" is shortened language for "shortened language"
Lugh Crow-Slave 2186	Posted - 2016.04.17 13:38:33 - [1850] - Quote Ria Nieyli wrote: Well, the dailies will just enhance the missing SP problem. Can't log in today? Enjoy your 10,000 SP loss. But don't worry, if you miss any, you can make it back by, you guessed it, buying skill injectors! The most distressing part is that there are people that are clamouring for this sort of thing. And they're being pretty quick to tell me how little I matter for disagreeing with them. They also seem so quick to find reasons people disagree with this other than its a bad idea You just don't like new players You're just upset is PVE you're just a bitter vet who doesn't like change So any point you make is invalid Citadel worm hole tax
Indahmawar Fazmarai 5060	Posted - 2016.04.17 13:40:02 - [1851] - Quote Mizhir wrote: (...) You are aware that the typical EVE players are much older than many other MMOs/games? I know plenty of people who plays EVE once in a while when they can set aside a few hours for roaming or other activities. In my previous corp (Matari Exodus) we typically arranged 2-3 days each week where most of us could play and went roaming there. And the rest of the days we didn't have to think about EVE. So that was indeed Scheduled, a few times a week, AND fun roams. And we still had what I would call a casual approach to it despite not living up to your arbitrary list about casual gaming. I too have limited time so instead of setting 3 hours aside for a roam ocne a week, I engage in things that can be accomplished in 1 hour or less. Similar issue, different approach. Quote: The SP system itself is one of the things that makes EVE a suitable game for people who can't put in that many hours. You will still progress even when you aren't logged in. Sure, a player with plenty of game hours per week will be able to farm more isk, but he will most likely also spend more of it since he will roam more as well. Well, you may set apart 3 hours for a roam and a npc kill once a week, or 15 minutes for a NPC kill each day. Or both. Maybe even as CCP hopes, being logged in each day as opposed than just once a week, improves your chances to find a roam or something else you enjoy. One of the silly points here is that people are calling in "dailies" when it's just a daily incentive. A "daily" would be something like "run an anomaly" or "complete a mission by this agent" or anything more demanding than "log in for 15 minutes, find a NPC and kill it".
Amarisen Gream Divine Demise Apocalypse Now. 254	Posted - 2016.04.17 13:50:38 - [1852] - Quote Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote: Mizhir wrote: (...) You are aware that the typical EVE players are much older than many other MMOs/games? I know plenty of people who plays EVE once in a while when they can set aside a few hours for roaming or other activities. In my previous corp (Matari Exodus) we typically arranged 2-3 days each week where most of us could play and went roaming there. And the rest of the days we didn't have to think about EVE. So that was indeed Scheduled, a few times a week, AND fun roams. And we still had what I would call a casual approach to it despite not living up to your arbitrary list about casual gaming. I too have limited time so instead of setting 3 hours aside for a roam ocne a week, I engage in things that can be accomplished in 1 hour or less. Similar issue, different approach. Quote: The SP system itself is one of the things that makes EVE a suitable game for people who can't put in that many hours. You will still progress even when you aren't logged in. Sure, a player with plenty of game hours per week will be able to farm more isk, but he will most likely also spend more of it since he will roam more as well. Well, you may set apart 3 hours for a roam and a npc kill once a week, or 15 minutes for a NPC kill each day. Or both. Maybe even as CCP hopes, being logged in each day as opposed than just once a week, improves your chances to find a roam or something else you enjoy. One of the silly points here is that people are calling in "dailies" when it's just a daily incentive. A "daily" would be something like "run an anomaly" or "complete a mission by this agent" or anything more demanding than "log in for 15 minutes, find a NPC and kill it". CCP Rise said it would be the first of many daily actives - and thus, they are dailies. "The Lord loosed upon them his fierce anger All of his fury and rage. He dispatched against them a band of Avenging Angels" - The Scriptures, Book II, Apocalypse 10:1 DIDE- is open to new members
Terranid Meester Tactical Assault and Recon Unit 372	Posted - 2016.04.17 13:53:39 - [1853] - Quote Even in other games ex-EA folk [AKA CCP Denebola, apt name at least] are ruining them. No real idea why people actually log-in to eve, no real idea in general.
Lugh Crow-Slave 2186	Posted - 2016.04.17 14:10:01 - [1854] - Quote Double Citadel worm hole tax
Indahmawar Fazmarai 5060	Posted - 2016.04.17 14:17:29 - [1855] - Quote sero Hita wrote: (...) And as a side note (with the two videos in mind) I think all the focus on PVP from CCPs side, is their way to make the population healthy again (According to CCP). Increase the amount of PVP players to trim the fat of the achievers (pure PVE'ers) to get the balance of players they want. For a MMO that try to sell itself as an PVP sandbox, it has quite a lot of non pvp'ers (62% some people claim). One way to gain this balance is to buff PVP, and loose some (not all ofc.) of the pure PVE'ers. The problem is that 1 PvP = 1 PvE in terms of money, but PvErs are more abundant. What you mean of buffing PvP could be achieved easily by just removing some of the safeguards implemented since the good old days when EVE was full of PvP players and TQ hosted a fraction of the current population. The problem is that EVE has grown larger and safer, rather than stay small and dangerous. Both are related. EVE is larger because is safer. And for obvious reasons, CCP might oppose to making EVE smaller, so they try to keep it large. Thus they try very hard to lure people into PvP, and try very hard to make PvP a little bit more accessible, and do everything they can to grow EVE by means of PvP... and yet they are failing. They keep losing customers faster than they can be replaced now that EVE is old, MMOs are old, and the whole MMO industry is not exactly in its peak. Because like it or not, EVE is a PvE game with a topping of PvP. As some say, PvE is the base of the pyramid and PvP is the gold plated top of it, shining for kilometers away, but the top wouldn't be there without all the dull blocks below.
Mizhir TURN LEFT 74736	Posted - 2016.04.17 14:23:45 - [1856] - Quote Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote: Mizhir wrote: (...) You are aware that the typical EVE players are much older than many other MMOs/games? I know plenty of people who plays EVE once in a while when they can set aside a few hours for roaming or other activities. In my previous corp (Matari Exodus) we typically arranged 2-3 days each week where most of us could play and went roaming there. And the rest of the days we didn't have to think about EVE. So that was indeed Scheduled, a few times a week, AND fun roams. And we still had what I would call a casual approach to it despite not living up to your arbitrary list about casual gaming. I too have limited time so instead of setting 3 hours aside for a roam ocne a week, I engage in things that can be accomplished in 1 hour or less. Similar issue, different approach. Except dailies would favour your approach. Quote: Quote: The SP system itself is one of the things that makes EVE a suitable game for people who can't put in that many hours. You will still progress even when you aren't logged in. Sure, a player with plenty of game hours per week will be able to farm more isk, but he will most likely also spend more of it since he will roam more as well. Well, you may set apart 3 hours for a roam and a npc kill once a week, or 15 minutes for a NPC kill each day. Or both. Maybe even as CCP hopes, being logged in each day as opposed than just once a week, improves your chances to find a roam or something else you enjoy. One of the silly points here is that people are calling in "dailies" when it's just a daily incentive. A "daily" would be something like "run an anomaly" or "complete a mission by this agent" or anything more demanding than "log in for 15 minutes, find a NPC and kill it". Quite the opposite. The dailies will make it feel like a chore to log in and shoot a rat rather than logging in being something I look forward to. CCP may look at their numbers and see more people would be logged in. But what is the point if people are just mindlessly loggin in to shoot a rat and then **** off again? And depending on how much people value the 10k SP it may even make people priotise the dailies over going on a roam. One Man Crew - Collective Solo PVP - Video is out!
Indahmawar Fazmarai 5060	Posted - 2016.04.17 14:44:55 - [1857] - Quote Mizhir wrote: Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote: Mizhir wrote: (...) You are aware that the typical EVE players are much older than many other MMOs/games? I know plenty of people who plays EVE once in a while when they can set aside a few hours for roaming or other activities. In my previous corp (Matari Exodus) we typically arranged 2-3 days each week where most of us could play and went roaming there. And the rest of the days we didn't have to think about EVE. So that was indeed Scheduled, a few times a week, AND fun roams. And we still had what I would call a casual approach to it despite not living up to your arbitrary list about casual gaming. I too have limited time so instead of setting 3 hours aside for a roam ocne a week, I engage in things that can be accomplished in 1 hour or less. Similar issue, different approach. Except dailies would favour your approach. Only as long as their opportunity cost can be afforded and/or they integrate in the daily flow. I can afford to not earn 10,000 SP or 15 million ISK a day, and earning them involves doing exactly what I am already doing -shoot NPCs. Now let's say there where like the PvE events... must succeed once a day or you will regret what you're missing... Then I would be howling under the moon exaclty as all you do. Yet CCP hasn't done that stupid. They may do it fo course, but so far I have a hope that they intend rewarding mundane daily activities, starting with the easy and popular and ending with fringe and difficult ones. Quote: Quite the opposite. The dailies will make it feel like a chore to log in and shoot a rat rather than logging in being something I look forward to. CCP may look at their numbers and see more people would be logged in. But what is the point if people are just mindlessly loggin in to shoot a rat and then **** off again? And depending on how much people value the 10k SP it may even make people priotise the dailies over going on a roam. Only until they reward you for assembling in a roam-sized fleet and jumping n systems once a week. Say, 50,000 SP for that, so they pay you in a weekend what you couldn't earn during the week.
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 17676	Posted - 2016.04.17 15:06:49 - [1858] - Quote Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote: No. I am saying that getting 10,000 free SP just for playing my way, each day, is nice with me. It's literally money for nothing for me. I mean, I even shoot rats in belts while mining. I rarely log off without killing a NPC. And now CCP wants to give me 10,000 free SP each day for it? Bring it on! Dailies are not about EVE being fun. They're a bribe to bear with how unfun it is. It's like saying "here, have unlimited coffee while you eat our poorly done breakfast". How about people who live in NPC 0.0 who want to maintain standings with the local faction? Those PvErs can go fly a kite as far as you're concerned? "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 2780	Posted - 2016.04.17 15:45:55 - [1859] - Quote Malcanis wrote: Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote: No. I am saying that getting 10,000 free SP just for playing my way, each day, is nice with me. It's literally money for nothing for me. I mean, I even shoot rats in belts while mining. I rarely log off without killing a NPC. And now CCP wants to give me 10,000 free SP each day for it? Bring it on! Dailies are not about EVE being fun. They're a bribe to bear with how unfun it is. It's like saying "here, have unlimited coffee while you eat our poorly done breakfast". How about people who live in NPC 0.0 who want to maintain standings with the local faction? Those PvErs can go fly a kite as far as you're concerned? Start one mission, kill rat, collect SP.
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 2780	Posted - 2016.04.17 15:46:48 - [1860] - Quote Ria Nieyli wrote: Well, the dailies will just enhance the missing SP problem. Can't log in today? Enjoy your 10,000 SP loss. But don't worry, if you miss any, you can make it back by, you guessed it, buying skill injectors! How the hell do you lose 10k SP you never had in the first place?
Erihn Sabrovich 11	Posted - 2016.04.17 15:57:55 - [1861] - Quote Ria Nieyli wrote: I'm speechless. Have you perhaps considered that your anti-me post is based on a false premise? Not that it matters. If the vocal mass of the playerbase is like you, CCP Rise's comment now actually makes sense. There may be more people thinking this way than you think... And, as you said, this would give more sense to Rise's comment which tend to point that this may be a fact. Don't forget that CCP has more information about what REALLY happens in their game than any player can have... The premise may not be so untrue that you'd like to think...
Erihn Sabrovich 11	Posted - 2016.04.17 16:03:31 - [1862] - Quote Ria Nieyli wrote: Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Like if ccp came out and said they were going to up base attribute because they felt progression was to show you would not have nearly the number of people upset. The ideal thing would be to remove attribute implants and attributes themselves and set the base training speed to 2700 sp/hour. That won't happen now though, since you have the option of buying skill injectors to compensate for suboptimal training. I think that the attributes are a good think... if you plan carefully your skill training, you may make use of remap to speed things up... this is part of the gameplay... The implants is something else : it is clearly a drawback for PvP players (who risks to lose them much more than PvE players)... So I can easily understand that you don't like them... Going PvP will full +5 is clearly a no-go... But, well, just like remap and the proposed dailies, it's OPTIONNAL...
Lugh Crow-Slave 2187	Posted - 2016.04.17 16:57:11 - [1863] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: Ria Nieyli wrote: Well, the dailies will just enhance the missing SP problem. Can't log in today? Enjoy your 10,000 SP loss. But don't worry, if you miss any, you can make it back by, you guessed it, buying skill injectors! How the hell do you lose 10k SP you never had in the first place? Because the human brain treats missing a profitable opportunity the same way it treats a loss Citadel worm hole tax
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 17677	Posted - 2016.04.17 17:02:51 - [1864] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: Malcanis wrote: Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote: No. I am saying that getting 10,000 free SP just for playing my way, each day, is nice with me. It's literally money for nothing for me. I mean, I even shoot rats in belts while mining. I rarely log off without killing a NPC. And now CCP wants to give me 10,000 free SP each day for it? Bring it on! Dailies are not about EVE being fun. They're a bribe to bear with how unfun it is. It's like saying "here, have unlimited coffee while you eat our poorly done breakfast". How about people who live in NPC 0.0 who want to maintain standings with the local faction? Those PvErs can go fly a kite as far as you're concerned? Start one mission, kill rat, collect SP. Yes that's an awesome way to maintain standings "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 17677	Posted - 2016.04.17 17:04:39 - [1865] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: Ria Nieyli wrote: Well, the dailies will just enhance the missing SP problem. Can't log in today? Enjoy your 10,000 SP loss. But don't worry, if you miss any, you can make it back by, you guessed it, buying skill injectors! How the hell do you lose 10k SP you never had in the first place? By that argument CCP could achieve the same goal far more effectively and with far less effective discrimination between player activity by simply removing the skillqueue altogether. Don't log in? No more SP for you, just like it used to be in 2007. After all, no one would be losing anything, right? "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
Ravcharas Infinite Point Violence of Action. 494	Posted - 2016.04.17 17:12:59 - [1866] - Quote This, by the by, is a huge incentive for botting.
Erihn Sabrovich 11	Posted - 2016.04.17 17:23:33 - [1867] - Quote Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Frostys Virpio wrote: Ria Nieyli wrote: Well, the dailies will just enhance the missing SP problem. Can't log in today? Enjoy your 10,000 SP loss. But don't worry, if you miss any, you can make it back by, you guessed it, buying skill injectors! How the hell do you lose 10k SP you never had in the first place? Because the human brain treats missing a profitable opportunity the same way it treats a loss This way, not having +5 implants is also losing SP... Not spending PLEX or Multi character training is also losing SP... Not connecting everyday is losing ISK (should you be trader, miner or anything else)
Ashterothi Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 387	Posted - 2016.04.17 17:30:42 - [1868] - Quote Erihn Sabrovich wrote: Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Frostys Virpio wrote: Ria Nieyli wrote: Well, the dailies will just enhance the missing SP problem. Can't log in today? Enjoy your 10,000 SP loss. But don't worry, if you miss any, you can make it back by, you guessed it, buying skill injectors! How the hell do you lose 10k SP you never had in the first place? Because the human brain treats missing a profitable opportunity the same way it treats a loss This way, not having +5 implants is also losing SP... Not spending PLEX or Multi character training is also losing SP... Not connecting everyday is losing ISK (should you be trader, miner or anything else) Actually you are correct, not using +5s is losing out on potential SP. However this is a risk vs. reward situation. Not optimizing your skill plan is also losing out on SP, but that is based on your ability to plan ahead and see it through. However, this daily reward is a loss of potential based solely on if you are willing to put yourself as slave to the grind. Logging in, day in, day out, without fail. If you have a field op in the military? SP Lost. Going for a week long vacation? Better bring a laptop and hope for good wifi. In the old system, I could get over the fact that I can't play for a while by loading up +5s, optimizing my plan, and walking away, confident that my progress was going to be awesome, because I was ready, but now I have to deal with the fact that I can't play EVE AND I am losing out of my advancement because of it. One of the fundamental awesome things about EVE is that progress IS NOT TIED to activity in a direct lock in. I can understand that changing some, having more impact than full optimization, AND full implants is simply too much. The feeling of double punishment if you can't log in is enough to cause people to just not come back. Listen to Hydrostatic Podcast for all your Empyrean needs!
Mizhir TURN LEFT 74736	Posted - 2016.04.17 17:36:19 - [1869] - Quote Erihn Sabrovich wrote: Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Frostys Virpio wrote: Ria Nieyli wrote: Well, the dailies will just enhance the missing SP problem. Can't log in today? Enjoy your 10,000 SP loss. But don't worry, if you miss any, you can make it back by, you guessed it, buying skill injectors! How the hell do you lose 10k SP you never had in the first place? Because the human brain treats missing a profitable opportunity the same way it treats a loss This way, not having +5 implants is also losing SP... Not spending PLEX or Multi character training is also losing SP... Not connecting everyday is losing ISK (should you be trader, miner or anything else) The difference is that all those things are fully in the control of the players. You decide if you want to spend 7 hours 1 day or 1 hour 7 days to farm the isk needed for these things. Dailies on the other hand take this out of the hands of the players. You have to log in each day instead of just playing more on 1-2 days a week. One Man Crew - Collective Solo PVP - Video is out!
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 17679	Posted - 2016.04.17 17:38:24 - [1870] - Quote Ravcharas wrote: This, by the by, is a huge incentive for botting. Eh, not really, because by the very nature of botting, the main effort is starting it up. That's no easier than just logging in 'normally' and killing a rat. "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 2781	Posted - 2016.04.17 17:40:23 - [1871] - Quote Malcanis wrote: Frostys Virpio wrote: Malcanis wrote: Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote: No. I am saying that getting 10,000 free SP just for playing my way, each day, is nice with me. It's literally money for nothing for me. I mean, I even shoot rats in belts while mining. I rarely log off without killing a NPC. And now CCP wants to give me 10,000 free SP each day for it? Bring it on! Dailies are not about EVE being fun. They're a bribe to bear with how unfun it is. It's like saying "here, have unlimited coffee while you eat our poorly done breakfast". How about people who live in NPC 0.0 who want to maintain standings with the local faction? Those PvErs can go fly a kite as far as you're concerned? Start one mission, kill rat, collect SP. Yes that's an awesome way to maintain standings I meant a mission for the faction/corp you want to keep your standings. They should not ask you to kill rats that will destroy your standings toward them...
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 17679	Posted - 2016.04.17 17:45:34 - [1872] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: Malcanis wrote: Frostys Virpio wrote: Malcanis wrote: Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote: No. I am saying that getting 10,000 free SP just for playing my way, each day, is nice with me. It's literally money for nothing for me. I mean, I even shoot rats in belts while mining. I rarely log off without killing a NPC. And now CCP wants to give me 10,000 free SP each day for it? Bring it on! Dailies are not about EVE being fun. They're a bribe to bear with how unfun it is. It's like saying "here, have unlimited coffee while you eat our poorly done breakfast". How about people who live in NPC 0.0 who want to maintain standings with the local faction? Those PvErs can go fly a kite as far as you're concerned? Start one mission, kill rat, collect SP. Yes that's an awesome way to maintain standings I meant a mission for the faction/corp you want to keep your standings. They should not ask you to kill rats that will destroy your standings toward them... Most missions involve killing more than 1 rat. And many of them take longer than the "coffee break" Rise was blathering about. "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
Lugh Crow-Slave 2195	Posted - 2016.04.17 17:49:59 - [1873] - Quote Malcanis wrote: Frostys Virpio wrote: I meant a mission for the faction/corp you want to keep your standings. They should not ask you to kill rats that will destroy your standings toward them... Most missions involve killing more than 1 rat. And many of them take longer than the "coffee break" Rise was blathering about. And you can't just kill one rat because if you fail you lose standings Citadel worm hole tax
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 17684	Posted - 2016.04.17 17:59:53 - [1874] - Quote Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Malcanis wrote: Frostys Virpio wrote: I meant a mission for the faction/corp you want to keep your standings. They should not ask you to kill rats that will destroy your standings toward them... Most missions involve killing more than 1 rat. And many of them take longer than the "coffee break" Rise was blathering about. And you can't just kill one rat because if you fail you lose standings In before "Nullseccers aren't real PvEers" "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 2781	Posted - 2016.04.17 18:01:39 - [1875] - Quote Malcanis wrote: Frostys Virpio wrote: Ria Nieyli wrote: Well, the dailies will just enhance the missing SP problem. Can't log in today? Enjoy your 10,000 SP loss. But don't worry, if you miss any, you can make it back by, you guessed it, buying skill injectors! How the hell do you lose 10k SP you never had in the first place? By that argument CCP could achieve the same goal far more effectively and with far less effective discrimination between player activity by simply removing the skillqueue altogether. Don't log in? No more SP for you, just like it used to be in 2007. After all, no one would be losing anything, right? No one would be losing any SP. It's still CCP's choice how they want to achieve something. If they want to eliminate the skillqueu, they'll face a different backlash from the playerbase and they know that. They know the "infinite" skillqueue is what cost them the extra log-ins they use to have. Why they are going with opportunity instead of just backing out on the queue change is something we probably never will really know. BTW, the skillqueu being nothing would probably not bring as much log-ins as a daily mostly because we can all train skills that last way over 24 hours. Even newbies can train a few days long without having to put a new skill in.
Ria Nieyli 43719	Posted - 2016.04.17 18:02:07 - [1876] - Quote Malcanis wrote: Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Malcanis wrote: Frostys Virpio wrote: I meant a mission for the faction/corp you want to keep your standings. They should not ask you to kill rats that will destroy your standings toward them... Most missions involve killing more than 1 rat. And many of them take longer than the "coffee break" Rise was blathering about. And you can't just kill one rat because if you fail you lose standings In before "Nullseccers aren't real PvEers" Ha! As if. Have you seen the monthly economy reports? "slang" is shortened language for "shortened language"
Ria Nieyli 43719	Posted - 2016.04.17 18:08:16 - [1877] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: No one would be losing any SP. It's still CCP's choice how they want to achieve something. If they want to eliminate the skillqueu, they'll face a different backlash from the playerbase and they know that. They know the "infinite" skillqueue is what cost them the extra log-ins they use to have. Why they are going with opportunity instead of just backing out on the queue change is something we probably never will really know. BTW, the skillqueu being nothing would probably not bring as much log-ins as a daily mostly because we can all train skills that last way over 24 hours. Even newbies can train a few days long without having to put a new skill in. So you've been playing EVE longer than I have. Please explain your failure to grasp basic game mechanics in two paragraphs max. Malcanis wrote: In before "Nullseccers aren't real PvEers" Ha! As if. Have you seen the monthly economy reports? "slang" is shortened language for "shortened language"
Lugh Crow-Slave 2196	Posted - 2016.04.17 18:19:09 - [1878] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: Malcanis wrote: Frostys Virpio wrote: Ria Nieyli wrote: Well, the dailies will just enhance the missing SP problem. Can't log in today? Enjoy your 10,000 SP loss. But don't worry, if you miss any, you can make it back by, you guessed it, buying skill injectors! How the hell do you lose 10k SP you never had in the first place? By that argument CCP could achieve the same goal far more effectively and with far less effective discrimination between player activity by simply removing the skillqueue altogether. Don't log in? No more SP for you, just like it used to be in 2007. After all, no one would be losing anything, right? No one would be losing any SP. It's still CCP's choice how they want to achieve something. If they want to eliminate the skillqueu, they'll face a different backlash from the playerbase and they know that. They know the "infinite" skillqueue is what cost them the extra log-ins they use to have. Why they are going with opportunity instead of just backing out on the queue change is something we probably never will really know. BTW, the skillqueu being nothing would probably not bring as much log-ins as a daily mostly because we can all train skills that last way over 24 hours. Even newbies can train a few days long without having to put a new skill in. No you see you would only be able to train a skill for 24hrs it's easy every 24hrs you're skill queue passes. Also not getting SP is the same as losing even from what I understand the literal interpretation of losing is. Last I checked it was simply being deprived something. You don't need to have something first in order to be deprived of it Citadel worm hole tax
Ravcharas Infinite Point Violence of Action. 495	Posted - 2016.04.17 18:20:11 - [1879] - Quote Malcanis wrote: Ravcharas wrote: This, by the by, is a huge incentive for botting. Eh, not really, because by the very nature of botting, the main effort is starting it up. That's no easier than just logging in 'normally' and killing a rat. Automating this task seems quite attractive when you consider how short the task-time and exposure is compared to the reward. shrug Maybe I'm wrong. It just seemed to me that the input pattern of a human and a bot would be rather difficult to tell apart when it's just a five minute session 'on your lunchbreak.'
Ria Nieyli 43719	Posted - 2016.04.17 18:23:57 - [1880] - Quote Ravcharas wrote: Malcanis wrote: Ravcharas wrote: This, by the by, is a huge incentive for botting. Eh, not really, because by the very nature of botting, the main effort is starting it up. That's no easier than just logging in 'normally' and killing a rat. Automating this task seems quite attractive when you consider how short the task-time and exposure is compared to the reward. shrug Maybe I'm wrong. It just seemed to me that the input pattern of a human and a bot would be rather difficult to tell apart when it's just a five minute session 'on your lunchbreak.' Actually, it's extremely trivial to spot. Bots do things that humans don't, because they can't. You just need to be looking. "slang" is shortened language for "shortened language"
Lugh Crow-Slave 2196	Posted - 2016.04.17 18:36:01 - [1881] - Quote Ria Nieyli wrote: Ravcharas wrote: Malcanis wrote: Ravcharas wrote: This, by the by, is a huge incentive for botting. Eh, not really, because by the very nature of botting, the main effort is starting it up. That's no easier than just logging in 'normally' and killing a rat. Automating this task seems quite attractive when you consider how short the task-time and exposure is compared to the reward. shrug Maybe I'm wrong. It just seemed to me that the input pattern of a human and a bot would be rather difficult to tell apart when it's just a five minute session 'on your lunchbreak.' Actually, it's extremely trivial to spot. Bots do things that humans don't, because they can't. You just need to be looking. And the last time I was in null I saw just how good ccp was at spotting and stopping bots Doesn't matter though not our not it's the same to ccp in this case Citadel worm hole tax
Ria Nieyli 43719	Posted - 2016.04.17 18:54:24 - [1882] - Quote Bot extermination is a lot more layered and nuanced than simply spotting them. Usually you see a banwave every few months, but I'd rather not get into it. "slang" is shortened language for "shortened language"
Gevlin Fink Operations The Volition Cult 281	Posted - 2016.04.18 02:04:26 - [1883] - Quote So this is a fix caused by the lack of numbers Logging on due to the unlimited skill que. So if I had a choice of a 24 hour skill que or the unlimited skill que and the daily rewards system. I will take the unlimited skill que and take the bitter daily opportunities. I only log in and actively play once a week most times. Though I would prefer a lesser amount as the reward. Sure the other guy may be earning more than me upto 20%, but they are also putting them selves at risk of loss of ISK, and grinding some time to complete a menial task. Their effect is minor to me because they are not flooding the market, With the character bizzar in 2007 in operation a newbie could out point me with cash already. In the end there are 2 resources: real life money and time played, ISK, SP, Items, Aurum all can be bought either directly or indirectly via these two methods. This Daily rewards, knee jerk as it is to me emotionally, in the king run is a 'meh' thing when looking in the big picture how it effects me directly. On the other hand if it increases log ins and more ships in space, will mean a longer lasting game and my skill points I have earned over the last 9 years will still continue to provide me with benefits in many years to come. Someday I will have the time to play. For now it is mining afk in High sec. In Cheap ships
FT Diomedes The Graduates 2520	Posted - 2016.04.18 03:05:33 - [1884] - Quote Gevlin wrote: So this is a fix caused by the lack of numbers Logging on due to the unlimited skill que. So if I had a choice of a 24 hour skill que or the unlimited skill que and the daily rewards system. I will take the unlimited skill que and take the bitter daily opportunities. I only log in and actively play once a week most times. Though I would prefer a lesser amount as the reward. Sure the other guy may be earning more than me upto 20%, but they are also putting them selves at risk of loss of ISK, and grinding some time to complete a menial task. Their effect is minor to me because they are not flooding the market, With the character bizzar in 2007 in operation a newbie could out point me with cash already. In the end there are 2 resources: real life money and time played, ISK, SP, Items, Aurum all can be bought either directly or indirectly via these two methods. This Daily rewards, knee jerk as it is to me emotionally, in the king run is a 'meh' thing when looking in the big picture how it effects me directly. On the other hand if it increases log ins and more ships in space, will mean a longer lasting game and my skill points I have earned over the last 9 years will still continue to provide me with benefits in many years to come. This is a fairly reasonable way of accepting the situation. I find myself in a similar position. Resignation is much easier than beating your head against the wall. I have decided to trim from six down to five accounts, because I don't feel like managing six daily opportunities every time I log in. I also don't feel that the game is on a great trajectory. I am not ready to bail out, because I still love my corporation, but the game play gets less and less fun. Spending basically three straight weekends lighting cynos and waiting off jump fatigue is a great way to get burned out on Eve. Fortunately, starting Tuesday, I'll be on vacation for a week or so. Hopefully I come back rejuvenated just in time for the next patch. CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.
Mike Azariah The Scope Gallente Federation 3467	Posted - 2016.04.18 04:32:59 - [1885] - Quote To a certain extent I expect the next news on this will be discussions at Fanfest. If you are going the keep an eye open for PvE and engagement roundtables. Wish I could be there but I cannot. A lot of you have done a great job of presenting your objections. I agree with some of them, others I don't. Some we on the CSM argued already. But our time is coming to an end. I recommend you start getting in contact with your new reps as soon as they are announced. If this matters to you keep the calm steady pressure on. m Mike Azariah Gö¼GöÇGöÇGö¼n++ ¯\|(pâä)/¯
Ashterothi Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 390	Posted - 2016.04.18 04:35:51 - [1886] - Quote Mike Azariah wrote: To a certain extent I expect the next news on this will be discussions at Fanfest. If you are going the keep an eye open for PvE and engagement roundtables. Wish I could be there but I cannot. A lot of you have done a great job of presenting your objections. I agree with some of them, others I don't. Some we on the CSM argued already. But our time is coming to an end. I recommend you start getting in contact with your new reps as soon as they are announced. If this matters to you keep the calm steady pressure on. m Seeing you without a CSM tag feels so wrong Thank you for your service. Listen to Hydrostatic Podcast for all your Empyrean needs!
FT Diomedes The Graduates 2520	Posted - 2016.04.18 05:09:27 - [1887] - Quote Mike Azariah wrote: To a certain extent I expect the next news on this will be discussions at Fanfest. If you are going the keep an eye open for PvE and engagement roundtables. Wish I could be there but I cannot. A lot of you have done a great job of presenting your objections. I agree with some of them, others I don't. Some we on the CSM argued already. But our time is coming to an end. I recommend you start getting in contact with your new reps as soon as they are announced. If this matters to you keep the calm steady pressure on. m Thanks, Mike. CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.
soliketotallydude Republic University Minmatar Republic 4	Posted - 2016.04.18 07:17:40 - [1888] - Quote Malcanis wrote: Most missions involve killing more than 1 rat. And many of them take longer than the "coffee break" Rise was blathering about. An L1 mission takes rather less time than a typical coffee break (like... a minute tops in something like a beam confessor), and would be perfectly sufficient.
Ashterothi Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 390	Posted - 2016.04.18 07:59:33 - [1889] - Quote What would be nice is that would actually make Level 1s have a meaningful purpose. Which would be nice, because some of them can be quite fun depending on the ship you bring. Kinda like burners but with low quality equipment. Listen to Hydrostatic Podcast for all your Empyrean needs!
Ria Nieyli 43751	Posted - 2016.04.18 08:15:49 - [1890] - Quote Ashterothi wrote: What would be nice is that would actually make Level 1s have a meaningful purpose. Which would be nice, because some of them can be quite fun depending on the ship you bring. Kinda like burners but with low quality equipment. edit: They could also make level 1s more prominent, and add anoms to the list of things you can do, low tier anoms can be taken out pretty quick as well. Would it though? People are saying that this is going to be a frustrating game mechanic as it is. If the requirements get shifted up from killing one rat to completing a level one missions, it's going to be even worse. Mike Azariah wrote: To a certain extent I expect the next news on this will be discussions at Fanfest. If you are going the keep an eye open for PvE and engagement roundtables. Wish I could be there but I cannot. A lot of you have done a great job of presenting your objections. I agree with some of them, others I don't. Some we on the CSM argued already. But our time is coming to an end. I recommend you start getting in contact with your new reps as soon as they are announced. If this matters to you keep the calm steady pressure on. m See, here's the thing - if this has been discussed with the CSM, why did it make it through? Did the CSM not object? Were their objections just ignored? I don't know, but either way they have effectively done nothing. My confidence was already low after the replacement fiasco and now it's even lower. I simply do not believe in it as an effective tool. "slang" is shortened language for "shortened language"
Ashterothi Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 390	Posted - 2016.04.18 08:22:38 - [1891] - Quote Ria Nieyli wrote: Ashterothi wrote: What would be nice is that would actually make Level 1s have a meaningful purpose. Which would be nice, because some of them can be quite fun depending on the ship you bring. Kinda like burners but with low quality equipment. edit: They could also make level 1s more prominent, and add anoms to the list of things you can do, low tier anoms can be taken out pretty quick as well. Would it though? People are saying that this is going to be a frustrating game mechanic as it is. If the requirements get shifted up from killing one rat to completing a level one missions, it's going to be even worse. Oh no my suggestions have been and continue to be a much more comprehensive change to a much more nuanced system. I was just commenting that a completion of a level 1 mission as a trigger for this thing, if it must exist, is a much more elegant one then the one currently offered. Listen to Hydrostatic Podcast for all your Empyrean needs!
Ria Nieyli 43751	Posted - 2016.04.18 08:24:02 - [1892] - Quote Ashterothi wrote: Ria Nieyli wrote: Ashterothi wrote: What would be nice is that would actually make Level 1s have a meaningful purpose. Which would be nice, because some of them can be quite fun depending on the ship you bring. Kinda like burners but with low quality equipment. edit: They could also make level 1s more prominent, and add anoms to the list of things you can do, low tier anoms can be taken out pretty quick as well. Would it though? People are saying that this is going to be a frustrating game mechanic as it is. If the requirements get shifted up from killing one rat to completing a level one missions, it's going to be even worse. Oh no my suggestions have been and continue to be a much more comprehensive change to a much more nuanced system. I was just commenting that a completion of a level 1 mission as a trigger for this thing, if it must exist, is a much more elegant one then the one currently offered. It's also much worse. People in wormholes get stiffed immediately. Amongst other objections I have against it. "slang" is shortened language for "shortened language"
Ashterothi Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 390	Posted - 2016.04.18 08:27:39 - [1893] - Quote Ria Nieyli wrote: Ashterothi wrote: Ria Nieyli wrote: Ashterothi wrote: What would be nice is that would actually make Level 1s have a meaningful purpose. Which would be nice, because some of them can be quite fun depending on the ship you bring. Kinda like burners but with low quality equipment. edit: They could also make level 1s more prominent, and add anoms to the list of things you can do, low tier anoms can be taken out pretty quick as well. Would it though? People are saying that this is going to be a frustrating game mechanic as it is. If the requirements get shifted up from killing one rat to completing a level one missions, it's going to be even worse. Oh no my suggestions have been and continue to be a much more comprehensive change to a much more nuanced system. I was just commenting that a completion of a level 1 mission as a trigger for this thing, if it must exist, is a much more elegant one then the one currently offered. It's also much worse. People in wormholes get stiffed immediately. Amongst other objections I have against it. As I mentioned anoms would be included. You would also be able to more laterally spread out to other things such as exploration sites. Listen to Hydrostatic Podcast for all your Empyrean needs!
Ria Nieyli 43751	Posted - 2016.04.18 08:35:16 - [1894] - Quote Ashterothi wrote: As I mentioned anoms would be included. You would also be able to more laterally spread out to other things such as exploration sites. Imagine that you live in a high-class wormhole. Exploration sites have sleepers in them. Everything does, and the site is a bit beyond trivial to clear. This thing will be a nightmare to implement properly. It will probably need to be iterated on afterwards too. "slang" is shortened language for "shortened language"
Shallanna Yassavi Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 141	Posted - 2016.04.18 09:22:37 - [1895] - Quote Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Malcanis wrote: Frostys Virpio wrote: I meant a mission for the faction/corp you want to keep your standings. They should not ask you to kill rats that will destroy your standings toward them... Most missions involve killing more than 1 rat. And many of them take longer than the "coffee break" Rise was blathering about. And you can't just kill one rat because if you fail you lose standings You can keep coming back to the mission once a day for a week until you have to complete it. I haven't tried blowing up all the rats and coming back after a reset, but they might regenerate. I know I was poking at some an L4 in a ship which had problems with them, and had to come back a day later because I'd kited them over the entry beacon for the first room. After downtime, the rats had all reset to their original locations so I could finish the mission the next day. A signature :o
Shallanna Yassavi Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 141	Posted - 2016.04.18 09:27:42 - [1896] - Quote sero Hita wrote: Erihn Sabrovich wrote: What I meant is not about the balance on the 4 kind of players but something directly linked to EVE mechanics : Nearly every thing that you can use has to be built by players or farmed by players If we take the amount of "stuff" (ships, modules, ammunitions), most PvE players are CREATING stuff while PvP players are destroying it. There is a small drain present in PvE... you may lose your ship to NPC, when you reprocess something, some of the materials is lost, ... That drain may easily be increased (more difficult missions for example). And you find a big drain in PvP (each kill result in most of the stuff lost). But, as far as "stuff" creation exists it's nearly only on the PvE side. PvP MAY get some LP which allow to buy some things from NPC but this is quire marginal... On the other side, Miners (ore), industrials (ships, modules,...), explorers (datacores, salvage, ...), missionners (ships, modules, LP, salvage) bring lots of new "stuff". If you remove the PvP (or strongly deacrease it), there will still be drains (and these may be made stronger) on the PvE side... but if you remove the PvE side, stuff in EVE will quickly be destroyed and EVE economy reach a stop. This is a consequence of the "everything is built by players" stance... And introducing NPC shops for every single module and ship would probably kill EVE quickly too... You don't think any of the PVP'ers also create stuff (Ratting, exploration, manufactoring, mining, PI etc.) to earn enough to PVP? That is why these type of discussions are so tedious, as there would always be someone to produce modules and other stuff, even if people who only do PVE leaves. The profits as supply drops would be too tempting to ignore. And as a side note (with the two videos in mind) I think all the focus on PVP from CCPs side, is their way to make the population healthy again (According to CCP). Increase the amount of PVP players to trim the fat of the achievers (pure PVE'ers) to get the balance of players they want. For a MMO that try to sell itself as an PVP sandbox, it has quite a lot of non pvp'ers (62% some people claim). One way to gain this balance is to buff PVP, and loose some (not all ofc.) of the pure PVE'ers. At least some PvPers keep hisec mining and/or mission alts to keep the lights on. This feature would push them to PvE on their mains. A signature :o
Axhind Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation 172	Posted - 2016.04.18 15:37:22 - [1897] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: Malcanis wrote: Frostys Virpio wrote: Ria Nieyli wrote: Well, the dailies will just enhance the missing SP problem. Can't log in today? Enjoy your 10,000 SP loss. But don't worry, if you miss any, you can make it back by, you guessed it, buying skill injectors! How the hell do you lose 10k SP you never had in the first place? By that argument CCP could achieve the same goal far more effectively and with far less effective discrimination between player activity by simply removing the skillqueue altogether. Don't log in? No more SP for you, just like it used to be in 2007. After all, no one would be losing anything, right? No one would be losing any SP. It's still CCP's choice how they want to achieve something. If they want to eliminate the skillqueu, they'll face a different backlash from the playerbase and they know that. They know the "infinite" skillqueue is what cost them the extra log-ins they use to have. Why they are going with opportunity instead of just backing out on the queue change is something we probably never will really know. BTW, the skillqueu being nothing would probably not bring as much log-ins as a daily mostly because we can all train skills that last way over 24 hours. Even newbies can train a few days long without having to put a new skill in. They do NOT know any of that. It's CCP Rises interpretation of lower numbers. Considering all the other unpopular changes that CCP has introduced, like fozzie sov (best compared to cancer) and fixation with small gang PvP, it's not very strange that numbers are up as all the available data points to players actually liking huge fights and big wars. Current numbers are up not because CCP is making us grind every day but because there is a real war in the game. CCP has over and over demonstrated complete lack of any form of understanding for their own game and even less of statistics. Look at the heavily advertised Citadel expansion. After the expansion the optimal solution is still going to be to have all your assets in the perfectly safe NPC station. Russians are the only powerful group left that is staging in 0.0 and it's a question when they will admit that NPC stations are far superior (as Imperium was forced by the recent war).
Drammie Askold The Senate and People of Rome Kids With Guns Alliance 29	Posted - 2016.04.18 16:03:21 - [1898] - Quote Udonor wrote: #1 I realize the simple login goal is necessary but this smells of running up login stats for external investors as real immediate purpose. This. Where do CSM XI candidates stand on the Velociraptor Issue?
Zet Soirn Soirn Enterprises 7	Posted - 2016.04.18 16:54:45 - [1899] - Quote Oooooooooh... Vets mad... Real maaaad.. Just like they were mad, when Injectors were introduced, but now they enjoy the cash they get from selling their "precious" SPs without a "beep". If you sell your SPs so eagerly, it just shows that you value them way less than actual new players (like me), who actually need them. Yea, yea, you-¦ve had it "harder" (subbed and docked for 13 years, racking up the SPs). But also your situation was different, there wasn-¦t such a huge SP gap between Rookies and Vets. Huge gap to be any competitive. But now there is. And CCP knows and tries to do something about it. Yes, they are TRYING, this ain-¦t final. I get it. You feel threatened. Less money for selling SPs, your "e-peen" urge to do the daily with all your 12 alts on 4 accounts could prove unbearable. Less smug for you, when it comes to setting up yourselves on piedestals. You don-¦t have to do those dailies. You also believe they are bringing them, because increasing online numbers? puts on tinfoil hat. Jesus, everything has to be a conspiracy with you, guys. Dailies? Not much of a fan. SP boosts for Rookies? That I like.
NovaCat13 Seymourus and Co. 179	Posted - 2016.04.18 16:59:12 - [1900] - Quote Zet Soirn wrote: Oooooooooh... Vets mad... Real maaaad.. Just like they were mad, when Injectors were introduced, but now they enjoy the cash they get from selling their "precious" SPs without a "beep". If you sell your SPs so eagerly, it just shows that you value them way less than actual new players (like me), who actually need them. Yea, yea, you-¦ve had it "harder" (subbed and docked for 13 years, racking up the SPs). But also your situation was different, there wasn-¦t such a huge SP gap between Rookies and Vets. Huge gap to be any competitive. But now there is. And CCP knows and tries to do something about it. Yes, they are TRYING, this ain-¦t final. I get it. You feel threatened. Less money for selling SPs, your "e-peen" urge to do the daily with all your 12 alts on 4 accounts could prove unbearable. Less smug for you, when it comes to setting up yourselves on piedestals. You don-¦t have to do those dailies. You also believe they are bringing them, because increasing online numbers? puts on tinfoil hat. Jesus, everything has to be a conspiracy with you, guys. Dailies? Not much of a fan. SP boosts for Rookies? That I like. Besides coming here to bash on vets did you even attempt to read CCPs remarks on this matter? Half of what you said isn't even valid taking into account their own words. EDIT: You know what, I take it back not a single thing you said is valid.
Mizhir TURN LEFT 74745	Posted - 2016.04.18 17:03:05 - [1901] - Quote Zet Soirn wrote: Dailies? Not much of a fan. SP boosts for Rookies? That I like. You will find that many of us will support mechanics that makes it easier for newbies to gain skills. Personally I think they should expand on the Career Agents and make them reward SP for new players. And I would also support the removal of learning implants and attributes in general so newbies don't have to deal with implants and remaps. Dailies on the other hand are just cancer. No matter if you are new or old. Zet Soirn wrote: You don-¦t have to do those dailies. You also believe they are bringing them, because increasing online numbers? puts on tinfoil hat. Jesus, everything has to be a conspiracy with you, guys. If you read Rise's reply you will see that it: 1. Is not aimed for making newbies train skills faster 2. Is in fact aimed at making people log in. So please pay attention before you post **** like that. It makes you look like a moron. One Man Crew - Collective Solo PVP - Video is out!
Zet Soirn Soirn Enterprises 7	Posted - 2016.04.18 17:04:25 - [1902] - Quote NovaCat13 wrote: Zet Soirn wrote: Oooooooooh... Vets mad... Real maaaad.. Just like they were mad, when Injectors were introduced, but now they enjoy the cash they get from selling their "precious" SPs without a "beep". If you sell your SPs so eagerly, it just shows that you value them way less than actual new players (like me), who actually need them. Yea, yea, you-¦ve had it "harder" (subbed and docked for 13 years, racking up the SPs). But also your situation was different, there wasn-¦t such a huge SP gap between Rookies and Vets. Huge gap to be any competitive. But now there is. And CCP knows and tries to do something about it. Yes, they are TRYING, this ain-¦t final. I get it. You feel threatened. Less money for selling SPs, your "e-peen" urge to do the daily with all your 12 alts on 4 accounts could prove unbearable. Less smug for you, when it comes to setting up yourselves on piedestals. You don-¦t have to do those dailies. You also believe they are bringing them, because increasing online numbers? puts on tinfoil hat. Jesus, everything has to be a conspiracy with you, guys. Dailies? Not much of a fan. SP boosts for Rookies? That I like. Besides coming here to bash on vets did you even attempt to read CCPs remarks on this matter? Half of what you said isn't even valid taking into account their own words. EDIT: You know what, I take it back not a single thing you said is valid. Same way you people bash on CCP and anyone, who disagree?
NovaCat13 Seymourus and Co. 179	Posted - 2016.04.18 17:15:59 - [1903] - Quote Not bashing, pointing out fact, as Mizhir has already pointed out.
Zet Soirn Soirn Enterprises 7	Posted - 2016.04.18 17:16:00 - [1904] - Quote Mizhir wrote: Zet Soirn wrote: Dailies? Not much of a fan. SP boosts for Rookies? That I like. You will find that many of us will support mechanics that makes it easier for newbies to gain skills. Personally I think they should expand on the Career Agents and make them reward SP for new players. And I would also support the removal of learning implants and attributes in general so newbies don't have to deal with implants and remaps. Dailies on the other hand are just cancer. No matter if you are new or old. Zet Soirn wrote: You don-¦t have to do those dailies. You also believe they are bringing them, because increasing online numbers? puts on tinfoil hat. Jesus, everything has to be a conspiracy with you, guys. If you read Rise's reply you will see that it: 1. Is not aimed for making newbies train skills faster 2. Is in fact aimed at making people log in. So please pay attention before you post **** like that. It makes you look like a moron. Not aimed for making newbies skill faster, but makes them skill faster anyway. Maybe I was a bit harsh on you, guys. Got carried away. I apologize.
NovaCat13 Seymourus and Co. 179	Posted - 2016.04.18 17:19:40 - [1905] - Quote It makes everyone skill faster...
Natalia Kapralova Anton Bishop Corporation 0	Posted - 2016.04.18 18:41:14 - [1906] - Quote Zet Soirn wrote: Mizhir wrote: Zet Soirn wrote: Dailies? Not much of a fan. SP boosts for Rookies? That I like. You will find that many of us will support mechanics that makes it easier for newbies to gain skills. Personally I think they should expand on the Career Agents and make them reward SP for new players. And I would also support the removal of learning implants and attributes in general so newbies don't have to deal with implants and remaps. Dailies on the other hand are just cancer. No matter if you are new or old. Zet Soirn wrote: You don-¦t have to do those dailies. You also believe they are bringing them, because increasing online numbers? puts on tinfoil hat. Jesus, everything has to be a conspiracy with you, guys. If you read Rise's reply you will see that it: 1. Is not aimed for making newbies train skills faster 2. Is in fact aimed at making people log in. So please pay attention before you post **** like that. It makes you look like a moron. Not aimed for making newbies skill faster, but makes them skill faster anyway. Maybe I was a bit harsh on you, guys. Got carried away. I apologize. I like idea with Career Agents. Please make some Sturcture Service Module called Career Agents. Witch will add to your citadel own agent. Make 4 different types like (combat, mining, ect.) 4 diffence levels (o let one agent give you different levels mission depends of your standing with corroration placed this module). You can use existing database of mission you have.
Amakish Licence To Kill Mercenary Coalition 18	Posted - 2016.04.18 18:42:22 - [1907] - Quote why not do the logical thing and have it reset every downtime.... that would be better for casual players.... example... i get home from work at 16:00 i hop on eve shoot a few rats and now im on a 22 hours cooldown next days im home from work at 1600 but my timer reset 2 hours ago... over time this is a huge loss of SP.... better to just remove the cooldown and have it flexible by resetting it at downtime. that way no one loses SP when limited by what time they get from work etc...
Brom MkLeith Epsilon Inc 30	Posted - 2016.04.18 18:53:32 - [1908] - Quote I think that the Career Agents giving out Unallocated SP is a better idea than just sending us out to kill a rat. The new player opportunities is also a good way to give SP's. If CCP is hell bent to implement a way to give us SP for activity then tie them to career agent quests available to characters of all skill levels. Also include one for PVP. This way everyone has the same opportunity for their daily SP injection without the monotony of sitting in a belt waiting for your rat. Altrue wrote: EDIT: Hey how about you make the actual new player opportunities give unallocated SP instead? You know, to provide meaningful rewards to a crash-course system that got completely stripped of them. Hmm, why not. How big does the NPC have to be though? I'd never turn down free stuff, but as the idea stands right now, that kind of daily reward isn't encouraging any meaningful gameplay. if you want to do rewards for active players, a veteran reward system with unique cosmetic rewards directly unlocked into the account would be so much better.
Smelly Boyhehe Viziam Amarr Empire 3	Posted - 2016.04.18 19:12:16 - [1909] - Quote What a horribly stupid feature
Commander Spurty Moosearmy I N F A M O U S 1623	Posted - 2016.04.18 19:17:46 - [1910] - Quote Have to laugh a little at those opposing it. Some of them probably login, to an alliance which gives the top PVPers some ISK for their "logging in and undocking". CCP are hardly "breaking new ground" here. Only thing different is that there's no competition to perform verses. I like the concept. I like the motivation (carrot) I do not know how it will get gamed I do not see how this is bad This might NOT be intentionally helping newer players, but it's certainly not harming them either There are good ships And wood ships And ships that sail the sea But the best ships are Spaceships Built by CCP
Circumstantial Evidence 300	Posted - 2016.04.18 21:35:36 - [1911] - Quote Mike Azariah wrote: To a certain extent I expect the next news on this will be discussions at Fanfest. If you are going the keep an eye open for PvE and engagement roundtables. Wish I could be there but I cannot. A lot of you have done a great job of presenting your objections. I agree with some of them, others I don't. Some we on the CSM argued already. But our time is coming to an end. I recommend you start getting in contact with your new reps as soon as they are announced. If this matters to you keep the calm steady pressure on. m Thank you for putting up with us. I've always appreciated your calm, measured style. EVE players are smart people. When we're told that a small feature is being added purely to manipulate us, some of us get annoyed ;) I'd almost prefer the return of 24h skill queue, back then I would call it "lame game mechanics" to get us to log in more often, not an effort to manipulate, even though it was, lol. You could dislike it all you want, but had no choice but to log in and add / start another skill. I started EVE pre-skill queue, and really disliked having to constantly monitor training times. EVEMON was essential... now I don't even bother with it. So first the 24h skill queue, and then the improved unlimited skill queue each gave a sense of a step forward... dallies are an optional step back. Because it's optional... and the feature and what it represents bothers me... and I have a high SP character, I will most likely ignore the feature. You can look at the gain over month or year and say "I want this!" but day in / day out, 10k SP is not going to draw me. If I happen to shoot a rat on a given day... cool, but I'm not logging in JUST for this. As I've wrote in previous posts, the part which bothers me most is using skill points as the reward... this is another erosion of what made EVE so different from any other MMO, before skill injectors: purely time-based character advancement. CCP crosses a line with this step; if they can give SP for dallies, they can and will give SP to entice players toward more and more activities and game promotions. FT Diomedes wrote: I understand why you have to make the bonus SP. It's the only commodity you have not devalued by making it too easy to acquire. I fear EVE advertising in game and out may take on a carnival atmosphere of more frequent offerings and pleadings... will I have to start sorting though which CCP mails are spam and which contain information? I have a special folder for MechWarrior Online. This feature, grasping at a few percentage points and causing such angst, runs counter to the hard work being done to deliver the largest expansion to gameplay in a very long time. I want to remember the Citadel expansion for starting a new chapter in player owned structures and capital ship gameplay, not for this and what will surely follow. According to the excellent eve-search, this thread has attracted ~600 unique posters making an average of 3.2 posts per author. This is the highest unique poster count I saw compared with a few other controversial feature threads. For unique posters concerned, It handily beats: Jump Fatigue Feedback (affecting a narrower slice of EVE players) ~250 unique posters & 2 per author. Damage Control Tiericide feedback: ~240 & 6.2 per author. NPC tax increases: ~200 & 7.1 per author
Azver Deroven Viziam Amarr Empire 3	Posted - 2016.04.18 21:46:01 - [1912] - Quote I'm strongly against this. I have no way to log in every day; and as someone can check I've last logged in ages ago. I still pay in hopes to play, as well as to train skills. And that's more than ok. It's eve; it's the MMO for people who have work or lives they can't just pop out of to go on a gaming spree. Because that kid on his year off, that has 15 hours a day, has absolutely nothing I can't scam, steal or cheat from him. And that's the biggest allure of the game to me. The fact that I'm equal to everyone else in terms of progress. You can make the argument that ISK can't be earned offline, or implants give an advantage but both are moot points; the amount of ISK you can farm doesn't compare to what you can acquire from others if you play your cards right. And with that money, implants are no problem. I made my first account during Cold War; since then a lot has changed, to better or to worse (I even got to meet CCP Tallest at work, <3 those changes to caps) but this, I feel, will push the game to a direction where I feel I'm being put to a disadvantageous position by the mechanics just by the virtue of not being able to game daily. And that's bad. During all of these expansions; I don't think I've played "lol you're losing my sub!1!!one!" card, but this certainly makes it into consideration next time something comes up that could use the monthly subscription. I'm NOT saying I WILL quit, I'm saying this is just another thing to consider when the scenario comes up. I reckon I'd be a LOT more pissy about it if I weren't in a situation where I can fly anything I can afford / want to lose. And I've no interest in capitals; as such the skill gain being slower doesn't -really- bother me personally, but far as company/game direction does, it's a huge red flag. And before you say it; yes I'm aware that in my situation remaps and planning a year in advance make me learn a LOT quicker. But I feel that it's the direction the game is going to, rather than a single step, that we should be worried about. Well, just my two cents and I'm probably wrong. You can now commence to tell me why I'm wrong. :P `DISCLAIMER: My views do not represent those of my alliance, my corporation or myself. Yes, I can even confuse myself from time to time.`
SandKid Sunset Logistics Company 204	Posted - 2016.04.18 21:53:44 - [1913] - Quote Taking it one step further, if programming allowed this, the ideal situation would be a pool of sp (or the booster to rate of gain) that built to a maximum based on eliminating multiple targets or completing multiple actions. This increases the total time in space - the stated goal of dailies. With a pool, it could dole out based on kills - say total pool awarded at 25 kills. That incentivizes a mission as opposed to belt hopping, which will take awhile to rack up 25, or even scanning down a combat site or two. So each kill is 1/25 of the pool or you could do 1/50 and completion of all 25 kills grants the other 50% of the pool. That way you can get something for even a few kills but you're rewarding fully the intended behavior of playing more. With a rate of gain boost, there is no sp cap but instead a cap on how long the boost is active and how much it stacks - 2 hours for example. For each kill, that boost increases by 1% (starting at 5%) up to a total of 30% rate increase. This incentivizes getting all 25 kills and doing so quickly. I'm not a math wiz, but obviously the percentages ought to be set to gain around that target amount currently being discussed. Personally I favor the pool reward because its easier to understand and build on. I'm all for free sp but one kill seems lame and doesn't really drive involvement. If you're going to incentivize playing the game (granted you can't go overkill or it doesn't work at all), at least make it a meaningful goal. From a NPE standpoint, you want newbros to get in the habit of playing EvE daily or every few days while also teaching them its totally cool to only play one mission for the day. EvE's entire skillpoint system was based on that philosophy - play when you want, you still skill up - it's a big selling point for the game and makes it rather unique. Telling new players to just log in and kill ONE rat doesn't do the community any favors, nor does it increase the chance the newbro will play more - if anything, if they get in the habit of just logging in for one rat you increase the likelihood they'll quit because you're NOT incentivizing them to search out any real content or giving the community any chance to bring them content (ganking isn't the only form of this).
Melek D'Ivri Grains of Sand 81	Posted - 2016.04.18 22:22:12 - [1914] - Quote What the hell is wrong with you people? Someone smack this guy over the head for me. I can't bear the thought of my hand being corrupted by him even for a brief slapping. No one likes a daily event or challenge or NPC interaction, and anyone that is for this doesn't care about ramifications, they only care about free SP. People don't give a **** about "getting to do this event daily" so don't even act like it's an exciting new thing for people to do. This is a cheap and pathetic attempt to revive life into a game you all are doing your darnedest to kill off. Stop doing things that ruin EVE and you will not have as many issues with a dying playerbase. Find the core values of what made the game brilliant instead of trying to water it down; find ways to innovate, not uninspired copying of things other games have. SP is now ISK. You all made it so. Just think through what you are doing before you cram another battery into the sock you are about to beat us mercilessly with, laughing the whole time.
Lugh Crow-Slave 2208	Posted - 2016.04.18 22:30:47 - [1915] - Quote Amakish wrote: why not do the logical thing and have it reset every downtime.... that would be better for casual players.... example... i get home from work at 16:00 i hop on eve shoot a few rats and now im on a 22 hours cooldown next days im home from work at 1600 but my timer reset 2 hours ago... over time this is a huge loss of SP.... better to just remove the cooldown and have it flexible by resetting it at downtime. that way no one loses SP when limited by what time they get from work etc... lol because the point is not what is best for the player its what is best for the pcu 22hrs means every minute you are not on running your dailies when they are up is a minute longer till you can run them again its a more powerful psychological effect and that is all ccp cares about with this how well this works for you how hard it is on you is not something ccp cares about Citadel worm hole tax
Lugh Crow-Slave 2208	Posted - 2016.04.18 22:33:22 - [1916] - Quote Commander Spurty wrote: Have to laugh a little at those opposing it. Some of them probably login, to an alliance which gives the top PVPers some ISK for their "logging in and undocking". CCP are hardly "breaking new ground" here. Only thing different is that there's no competition to perform verses. I like the concept. I like the motivation (carrot) I do not know how it will get gamed I do not see how this is bad This might NOT be intentionally helping newer players, but it's certainly not harming them either what does it matter if they are being paid by other players in game or if they are doing pvp the issue has nothing to do with that the problem is CCP telling ppl how to play the game how do you not see this as bad in a sand box the problem is it opens the door to SP grinding how do you not see this as a bad thing how this effects new players is irrelevant there are better ways to help them Citadel worm hole tax
Lugh Crow-Slave 2208	Posted - 2016.04.18 22:38:48 - [1917] - Quote SandKid wrote: Taking it one step further, if programming allowed this, the ideal situation would be a pool of sp (or the booster to rate of gain) that built to a maximum based on eliminating multiple targets or completing multiple actions. This increases the total time in space - the stated goal of dailies. With a pool, it could dole out based on kills - say total pool awarded at 25 kills. That incentivizes a mission as opposed to belt hopping, which will take awhile to rack up 25, or even scanning down a combat site or two. So each kill is 1/25 of the pool or you could do 1/50 and completion of all 25 kills grants the other 50% of the pool. That way you can get something for even a few kills but you're rewarding fully the intended behavior of playing more. With a rate of gain boost, there is no sp cap but instead a cap on how long the boost is active and how much it stacks - 2 hours for example. For each kill, that boost increases by 1% (starting at 5%) up to a total of 30% rate increase. This incentivizes getting all 25 kills and doing so quickly. I'm not a math wiz, but obviously the percentages ought to be set to gain around that target amount currently being discussed. Personally I favor the pool reward because its easier to understand and build on. I'm all for free sp but one kill seems lame and doesn't really drive involvement. If you're going to incentivize playing the game (granted you can't go overkill or it doesn't work at all), at least make it a meaningful goal. From a NPE standpoint, you want newbros to get in the habit of playing EvE daily or every few days while also teaching them its totally cool to only play one mission for the day. EvE's entire skillpoint system was based on that philosophy - play when you want, you still skill up - it's a big selling point for the game and makes it rather unique. Telling new players to just log in and kill ONE rat doesn't do the community any favors, nor does it increase the chance the newbro will play more - if anything, if they get in the habit of just logging in for one rat you increase the likelihood they'll quit because you're NOT incentivizing them to search out any real content or giving the community any chance to bring them content (ganking isn't the only form of this). so increase the grind and lower the amount of time i have to do anything else? yeah no much much worse Citadel worm hole tax
Melek D'Ivri Grains of Sand 83	Posted - 2016.04.18 22:43:19 - [1918] - Quote Zet Soirn wrote: Oooooooooh... Vets mad... Real maaaad.. Just like they were mad, when Injectors were introduced, but now they enjoy the cash they get from selling their "precious" SPs without a "beep". If you sell your SPs so eagerly, it just shows that you value them way less than actual new players (like me), who actually need them. Yea, yea, you-¦ve had it "harder" (subbed and docked for 13 years, racking up the SPs). But also your situation was different, there wasn-¦t such a huge SP gap between Rookies and Vets. Huge gap to be any competitive. But now there is. And CCP knows and tries to do something about it. Yes, they are TRYING, this ain-¦t final. I get it. You feel threatened. Less money for selling SPs, your "e-peen" urge to do the daily with all your 12 alts on 4 accounts could prove unbearable. Less smug for you, when it comes to setting up yourselves on piedestals. You don-¦t have to do those dailies. You also believe they are bringing them, because increasing online numbers? puts on tinfoil hat. Jesus, everything has to be a conspiracy with you, guys. Dailies? Not much of a fan. SP boosts for Rookies? That I like. The time it takes to fully invest into any facet of the game and become competitive is almost negligible. The time it takes to get the experience and a more well developed suite of skills that support it isn't a "small thing" but it's also, again, still not really all that long. I understand your frustrations about not having enough SP, even I feel that after over 4 years of EVE, but no. I'm not threatened by newbros getting handouts. I'm threatened by handouts.
Drago Shouna Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire 347	Posted - 2016.04.18 22:57:19 - [1919] - Quote Azver Deroven wrote: I'm strongly against this. I have no way to log in every day; and as someone can check I've last logged in ages ago. I still pay in hopes to play, as well as to train skills. And that's more than ok. It's eve; it's the MMO for people who have work or lives they can't just pop out of to go on a gaming spree. Because that kid on his year off, that has 15 hours a day, has absolutely nothing I can't scam, steal or cheat from him. And that's the biggest allure of the game to me. The fact that I'm equal to everyone else in terms of progress. You can make the argument that ISK can't be earned offline, or implants give an advantage but both are moot points; the amount of ISK you can farm doesn't compare to what you can acquire from others if you play your cards right. And with that money, implants are no problem. I made my first account during Cold War; since then a lot has changed, to better or to worse (I even got to meet CCP Tallest at work, <3 those changes to caps) but this, I feel, will push the game to a direction where I feel I'm being put to a disadvantageous position by the mechanics just by the virtue of not being able to game daily. And that's bad. During all of these expansions; I don't think I've played "lol you're losing my sub!1!!one!" card, but this certainly makes it into consideration next time something comes up that could use the monthly subscription. I'm NOT saying I WILL quit, I'm saying this is just another thing to consider when the scenario comes up. I reckon I'd be a LOT more pissy about it if I weren't in a situation where I can fly anything I can afford / want to lose. And I've no interest in capitals; as such the skill gain being slower doesn't -really- bother me personally, but far as company/game direction does, it's a huge red flag. And before you say it; yes I'm aware that in my situation remaps and planning a year in advance make me learn a LOT quicker. But I feel that it's the direction the game is going to, rather than a single step, that we should be worried about. Well, just my two cents and I'm probably wrong. You can now commence to tell me why I'm wrong. :P I think they should link the dailies to the forums as well, log in 4 times a week or no forum posts. That way we might get posts from players that actually play, rather than just skill queue online. Or create alt after alt to protest about the same thing over and over.
Axhind Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation 173	Posted - 2016.04.18 23:13:42 - [1920] - Quote Drago Shouna wrote: Azver Deroven wrote: I'm strongly against this. I have no way to log in every day; and as someone can check I've last logged in ages ago. I still pay in hopes to play, as well as to train skills. And that's more than ok. It's eve; it's the MMO for people who have work or lives they can't just pop out of to go on a gaming spree. Because that kid on his year off, that has 15 hours a day, has absolutely nothing I can't scam, steal or cheat from him. And that's the biggest allure of the game to me. The fact that I'm equal to everyone else in terms of progress. You can make the argument that ISK can't be earned offline, or implants give an advantage but both are moot points; the amount of ISK you can farm doesn't compare to what you can acquire from others if you play your cards right. And with that money, implants are no problem. I made my first account during Cold War; since then a lot has changed, to better or to worse (I even got to meet CCP Tallest at work, <3 those changes to caps) but this, I feel, will push the game to a direction where I feel I'm being put to a disadvantageous position by the mechanics just by the virtue of not being able to game daily. And that's bad. During all of these expansions; I don't think I've played "lol you're losing my sub!1!!one!" card, but this certainly makes it into consideration next time something comes up that could use the monthly subscription. I'm NOT saying I WILL quit, I'm saying this is just another thing to consider when the scenario comes up. I reckon I'd be a LOT more pissy about it if I weren't in a situation where I can fly anything I can afford / want to lose. And I've no interest in capitals; as such the skill gain being slower doesn't -really- bother me personally, but far as company/game direction does, it's a huge red flag. And before you say it; yes I'm aware that in my situation remaps and planning a year in advance make me learn a LOT quicker. But I feel that it's the direction the game is going to, rather than a single step, that we should be worried about. Well, just my two cents and I'm probably wrong. You can now commence to tell me why I'm wrong. :P I think they should link the dailies to the forums as well, log in 4 times a week or no forum posts. That way we might get posts from players that actually play, rather than just skill queue online. Or create alt after alt to protest about the same thing over and over. Could also demand an IQ test before being allowed to post on the forums to make sure participants are able to think long term instead of CCP style ultra short term thinking. Would help the game a lot as it's obvious that CCP has no idea what they are doing and many here can't see further than their nose. Just because you want free SP and have time to grind it like a good little robot doesn't mean it's actually beneficial for the game to introduce daily grinds. EVE is a game that deserves long term thinking instead of giving into your short term greed.
Chatarina DeBeers Lost Valkyries 21	Posted - 2016.04.18 23:14:25 - [1921] - Quote Sounds like getting XP for doing stuff just like in WoW. Pretty standard tac in MORPGs, but terribly counter-productive for EvE where the only currency is ISK and (dis)honour in battle. All the rest is just hard work to counter the constant need for more ISK. When this game turns into a game about XP and not ISK and honour, I will be gone for good. What's next? Banning people for scamming newbies? The thing that attracted me to this game was exactly how harsh it was. It's a game for grown ups, and not another WoW clone.
Drago Shouna Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire 347	Posted - 2016.04.18 23:43:09 - [1922] - Quote Axhind wrote: Drago Shouna wrote: Azver Deroven wrote: I'm strongly against this. I have no way to log in every day; and as someone can check I've last logged in ages ago. I still pay in hopes to play, as well as to train skills. And that's more than ok. It's eve; it's the MMO for people who have work or lives they can't just pop out of to go on a gaming spree. Because that kid on his year off, that has 15 hours a day, has absolutely nothing I can't scam, steal or cheat from him. And that's the biggest allure of the game to me. The fact that I'm equal to everyone else in terms of progress. You can make the argument that ISK can't be earned offline, or implants give an advantage but both are moot points; the amount of ISK you can farm doesn't compare to what you can acquire from others if you play your cards right. And with that money, implants are no problem. I made my first account during Cold War; since then a lot has changed, to better or to worse (I even got to meet CCP Tallest at work, <3 those changes to caps) but this, I feel, will push the game to a direction where I feel I'm being put to a disadvantageous position by the mechanics just by the virtue of not being able to game daily. And that's bad. During all of these expansions; I don't think I've played "lol you're losing my sub!1!!one!" card, but this certainly makes it into consideration next time something comes up that could use the monthly subscription. I'm NOT saying I WILL quit, I'm saying this is just another thing to consider when the scenario comes up. I reckon I'd be a LOT more pissy about it if I weren't in a situation where I can fly anything I can afford / want to lose. And I've no interest in capitals; as such the skill gain being slower doesn't -really- bother me personally, but far as company/game direction does, it's a huge red flag. And before you say it; yes I'm aware that in my situation remaps and planning a year in advance make me learn a LOT quicker. But I feel that it's the direction the game is going to, rather than a single step, that we should be worried about. Well, just my two cents and I'm probably wrong. You can now commence to tell me why I'm wrong. :P I think they should link the dailies to the forums as well, log in 4 times a week or no forum posts. That way we might get posts from players that actually play, rather than just skill queue online. Or create alt after alt to protest about the same thing over and over. Could also demand an IQ test before being allowed to post on the forums to make sure participants are able to think long term instead of CCP style ultra short term thinking. Would help the game a lot as it's obvious that CCP has no idea what they are doing and many here can't see further than their nose. Just because you want free SP and have time to grind it like a good little robot doesn't mean it's actually beneficial for the game to introduce daily grinds. EVE is a game that deserves long term thinking instead of giving into your short term greed. If you dislike what's happening in the game so much...why are you playing? Nowhere have i mentioned i have the time or inclination to do them every day either. But your reply does show the level of your iq by responding with insults. My last test was around 143 btw.
Mike Azariah The Scope Gallente Federation 3473	Posted - 2016.04.18 23:44:20 - [1923] - Quote Chatarina DeBeers wrote: Sounds like getting XP for doing stuff just like in WoW. Pretty standard tac in MORPGs, but terribly counter-productive for EvE where the only currency is ISK and (dis)honour in battle. All the rest is just hard work to counter the constant need for more ISK. When this game turns into a game about XP and not ISK and honour, I will be gone for good. What's next? Banning people for scamming newbies? The thing that attracted me to this game was exactly how harsh it was. It's a game for grown ups, and not another WoW clone. Quote: Rookie Systems CCP designate several systems as "rookie systems", consisting of the starter systems, the career agent systems, and Arnon. The canonical list is here. "Attempting to abuse a new playerGÇÖs lack of knowledge of the game and its mechanic for your personal gain or simply for their harm is prohibited in these solar systems." Yeah, it is already a thing m Mike Azariah Gö¼GöÇGöÇGö¼n++ ¯\|(pâä)/¯
Drago Shouna Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire 347	Posted - 2016.04.18 23:54:20 - [1924] - Quote Mike Azariah wrote: Chatarina DeBeers wrote: Sounds like getting XP for doing stuff just like in WoW. Pretty standard tac in MORPGs, but terribly counter-productive for EvE where the only currency is ISK and (dis)honour in battle. All the rest is just hard work to counter the constant need for more ISK. When this game turns into a game about XP and not ISK and honour, I will be gone for good. What's next? Banning people for scamming newbies? The thing that attracted me to this game was exactly how harsh it was. It's a game for grown ups, and not another WoW clone. Quote: Rookie Systems CCP designate several systems as "rookie systems", consisting of the starter systems, the career agent systems, and Arnon. The canonical list is here. "Attempting to abuse a new playerGÇÖs lack of knowledge of the game and its mechanic for your personal gain or simply for their harm is prohibited in these solar systems." Yeah, it is already a thing m Its strange not seeing the csm tag, maybe they can make something like a medal you could add to your forum toon commemorating the fact that you are an ex csm member?
The Sinister Eve Minions The-Company 102	Posted - 2016.04.19 00:22:02 - [1925] - Quote CCP Rise First you come up with the Rapid Lights Missile launcher Nerf! Now this ****! I think u are trying to get your self fired mate!!!!
Lelira Cirim The Graduates Get Off My Lawn 281	Posted - 2016.04.19 02:49:37 - [1926] - Quote Drago Shouna wrote: maybe they can make something like a medal you could add to your forum toon commemorating the fact that you are an ex csm member? Off topic burble is off topic. Forum signatures are a thing. Do not actively tank my patience.
Lelira Cirim The Graduates Get Off My Lawn 281	Posted - 2016.04.19 02:55:19 - [1927] - Quote Kieron VonDeux wrote: It can be a slippery slope and you have to admit CCP is not always totally open in regard to really why some changes are being made. At least it can seem that way. Many changes to this game you can anticipate but many do come out of left field. Some times those changes that come out of left field really leave many players wondering why, and where this made lead us in the future. As has been stated many times, my opinion is also that they sold us on tradable SP with the understanding that SP weren't being spawned out of thin air, and in fact were being removed from the game via diminished returns. Now SP are being spawned out of thin air. Da fuq? Do not actively tank my patience.
Lugh Crow-Slave 2217	Posted - 2016.04.19 04:23:24 - [1928] - Quote Lelira Cirim wrote: Kieron VonDeux wrote: It can be a slippery slope and you have to admit CCP is not always totally open in regard to really why some changes are being made. At least it can seem that way. Many changes to this game you can anticipate but many do come out of left field. Some times those changes that come out of left field really leave many players wondering why, and where this made lead us in the future. As has been stated many times, they sold us on tradable SP with the understanding that SP weren't being spawned out of thin air, and in fact were being removed from the game via diminished returns. Now SP are being spawned out of thin air. Da fuq? Well sold us isn't the right word They used that to soften the I blow and put it in anyway still a lot of us that don't agree with it but wet accept is nature means they can never be removed Citadel worm hole tax
Lugh Crow-Slave 2217	Posted - 2016.04.19 04:25:37 - [1929] - Quote Drago Shouna wrote: Azver Deroven wrote: I'm strongly against this. I have no way to log in every day; and as someone can check I've last logged in ages ago. I still pay in hopes to play, as well as to train skills. And that's more than ok. It's eve; it's the MMO for people who have work or lives they can't just pop out of to go on a gaming spree. Because that kid on his year off, that has 15 hours a day, has absolutely nothing I can't scam, steal or cheat from him. And that's the biggest allure of the game to me. The fact that I'm equal to everyone else in terms of progress. You can make the argument that ISK can't be earned offline, or implants give an advantage but both are moot points; the amount of ISK you can farm doesn't compare to what you can acquire from others if you play your cards right. And with that money, implants are no problem. I made my first account during Cold War; since then a lot has changed, to better or to worse (I even got to meet CCP Tallest at work, <3 those changes to caps) but this, I feel, will push the game to a direction where I feel I'm being put to a disadvantageous position by the mechanics just by the virtue of not being able to game daily. And that's bad. During all of these expansions; I don't think I've played "lol you're losing my sub!1!!one!" card, but this certainly makes it into consideration next time something comes up that could use the monthly subscription. I'm NOT saying I WILL quit, I'm saying this is just another thing to consider when the scenario comes up. I reckon I'd be a LOT more pissy about it if I weren't in a situation where I can fly anything I can afford / want to lose. And I've no interest in capitals; as such the skill gain being slower doesn't -really- bother me personally, but far as company/game direction does, it's a huge red flag. And before you say it; yes I'm aware that in my situation remaps and planning a year in advance make me learn a LOT quicker. But I feel that it's the direction the game is going to, rather than a single step, that we should be worried about. Well, just my two cents and I'm probably wrong. You can now commence to tell me why I'm wrong. :P I think they should link the dailies to the forums as well, log in 4 times a week or no forum posts. That way we might get posts from players that actually play, rather than just skill queue online. Or create alt after alt to protest about the same thing over and over. Right because you can't play eve without logging in Citadel worm hole tax
Lugh Crow-Slave 2217	Posted - 2016.04.19 04:43:32 - [1930] - Quote Mike Azariah wrote: Chatarina DeBeers wrote: Sounds like getting XP for doing stuff just like in WoW. Pretty standard tac in MORPGs, but terribly counter-productive for EvE where the only currency is ISK and (dis)honour in battle. All the rest is just hard work to counter the constant need for more ISK. When this game turns into a game about XP and not ISK and honour, I will be gone for good. What's next? Banning people for scamming newbies? The thing that attracted me to this game was exactly how harsh it was. It's a game for grown ups, and not another WoW clone. Quote: Rookie Systems CCP designate several systems as "rookie systems", consisting of the starter systems, the career agent systems, and Arnon. The canonical list is here. "Attempting to abuse a new playerGÇÖs lack of knowledge of the game and its mechanic for your personal gain or simply for their harm is prohibited in these solar systems." Yeah, it is already a thing m But it's not just for scamming newbies it's scamming newbies in those systems I think he was talking about scamming any newbro anyplace Citadel worm hole tax
Kaskata Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State 0	Posted - 2016.04.19 05:39:28 - [1931] - Quote -+-+-+-+-+-¦-¦-¦ -¦-Ç-¦-â-+-¦-+-é-+-Ç-â-Ä: -Å -+-Ç-+-ü-é-+ -é-¦-¦ -ê-+-+-î -¦-¦-+-¦-¦-+-+ -â-+-¦-Ç-ï-¦-¦-+-ü-Å? -ç-é-+-¦ -+-+-é-+-+ -¦-¦-¦-+-+-¦-+ -¦-¦-¦-+-+?
lexa21 KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 34	Posted - 2016.04.19 06:12:19 - [1932] - Quote del. Since 2014 EVE was getting worse and worse with every patch. Its time to leave.
Indahmawar Fazmarai 5069	Posted - 2016.04.19 06:35:47 - [1933] - Quote lexa21 wrote: del. Since 2014 EVE was getting worse and worse with every patch. Its time to leave. How harsh of you. Here comes CCP giving the 110% with Citadel and you don't like it becuse of a small last minute feature.
lexa21 KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 34	Posted - 2016.04.19 06:51:36 - [1934] - Quote Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote: lexa21 wrote: del. Since 2014 EVE was getting worse and worse with every patch. Its time to leave. How harsh of you. Here comes CCP giving the 110% with Citadel and you don't like it becuse of a small last minute feature. I dont need fatigue, fozzie, cap rebalance, hordes of svipuls, nullifier ships while CCP have so much unsolved problems. The most serious of them is CCP doesnt play EVE. Amd im certanly shure i don`t want to see peple that come for daily quests in my fleet.
Erihn Sabrovich 11	Posted - 2016.04.19 07:46:14 - [1935] - Quote lexa21 wrote: Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote: lexa21 wrote: del. Since 2014 EVE was getting worse and worse with every patch. Its time to leave. How harsh of you. Here comes CCP giving the 110% with Citadel and you don't like it becuse of a small last minute feature. I dont need fatigue, fozzie, cap rebalance, hordes of svipuls, nullifier ships while CCP have so much unsolved problems. The most serious of them is CCP doesnt play EVE. Amd im certanly shure i don`t want to see peple that come for daily quests in my fleet. Well, CCP has to rebalance the game which also means take initiative which will hurt powerblocks. In other words, be prepared to see more changes that will affect you negatively... Rebalancing means taking care of the SP gap... it was OK when the game only had a few years old, with 10+ years of EVE, it's not OK anymore Rebalancing means making life hard to Powerblock so their zone of influence is shrunk damatically, to leave place for other corporations. This means other changes like the fatigue have to come. Rebalancing means bringing lower skill ships that should be able to face the biggest (cap-sized) one, in a paper-scissor-stone way. Rebalancing means removing T2 BPO Rebalancing means giving things to do to PvE players And so on... CSM, powerblocks and older players will most probably oppose as much as they can but it'll be useless... Rebalancing is needed and CCP will do it anyway... You've to understand that you won't have a choice, these changes WILL come anyway... And pissing off the dev with empty threats, curses and other won't do anything good to you. Another fact is that EVE is one of the few pay to play games that still remains... Many of them already switched to F2P... I hope EVE will stay pay 2 win as it somehow "protect" us from some kind of annoying players (kiddies) but CCP may already have F2P planned... If it's the case, we (players) won't be able to change that anyway.
NotTheSmartestCookie New Order Logistics CODE. 93	Posted - 2016.04.19 08:34:26 - [1936] - Quote lexa21 wrote: Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote: lexa21 wrote: del. Since 2014 EVE was getting worse and worse with every patch. Its time to leave. How harsh of you. Here comes CCP giving the 110% with Citadel and you don't like it becuse of a small last minute feature. I dont need fatigue, fozzie, cap rebalance, hordes of svipuls, nullifier ships while CCP have so much unsolved problems. The most serious of them is CCP doesnt play EVE. Amd im certanly shure i don`t want to see peple that come for daily quests in my fleet. These are all things that are making a positive impact on EVE, providing more freedom for small gangs and breaking the blue donut. Funny how a Goon would not like those changes. Obligatory "don't let the door hit you on your way out", "can I have your stuff" and "as your last act in EVE will you come into the light and buy a mining permit, great value at only 10m ISK"? If CCP wants to reward (new) players with a small gift of SP for being online and active I can certainly appreciate it. Making New Eden a better place 8 rounds of Void at a time
Lugh Crow-Slave 2220	Posted - 2016.04.19 08:43:16 - [1937] - Quote Erihn Sabrovich wrote: lexa21 wrote: Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote: lexa21 wrote: del. Since 2014 EVE was getting worse and worse with every patch. Its time to leave. How harsh of you. Here comes CCP giving the 110% with Citadel and you don't like it becuse of a small last minute feature. I dont need fatigue, fozzie, cap rebalance, hordes of svipuls, nullifier ships while CCP have so much unsolved problems. The most serious of them is CCP doesnt play EVE. Amd im certanly shure i don`t want to see peple that come for daily quests in my fleet. Well, CCP has to rebalance the game which also means take initiative which will hurt powerblocks. In other words, be prepared to see more changes that will affect you negatively... Rebalancing means taking care of the SP gap... it was OK when the game only had a few years old, with 10+ years of EVE, it's not OK anymore Rebalancing means making life hard to Powerblock so their zone of influence is shrunk damatically, to leave place for other corporations. This means other changes like the fatigue have to come. Rebalancing means bringing lower skill ships that should be able to face the biggest (cap-sized) one, in a paper-scissor-stone way. Rebalancing means removing T2 BPO Rebalancing means giving things to do to PvE players And so on... CSM, powerblocks and older players will most probably oppose as much as they can but it'll be useless... Rebalancing is needed and CCP will do it anyway... You've to understand that you won't have a choice, these changes WILL come anyway... And pissing off the dev with empty threats, curses and other won't do anything good to you. Another fact is that EVE is one of the few pay to play games that still remains... Many of them already switched to F2P... I hope EVE will stay pay 2 win as it somehow "protect" us from some kind of annoying players (kiddies) but CCP may already have F2P planned... If it's the case, we (players) won't be able to change that anyway. And none of these are fixed with dailies Citadel worm hole tax
Lugh Crow-Slave 2220	Posted - 2016.04.19 08:44:20 - [1938] - Quote NotTheSmartestCookie wrote: lexa21 wrote: Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote: lexa21 wrote: del. Since 2014 EVE was getting worse and worse with every patch. Its time to leave. How harsh of you. Here comes CCP giving the 110% with Citadel and you don't like it becuse of a small last minute feature. I dont need fatigue, fozzie, cap rebalance, hordes of svipuls, nullifier ships while CCP have so much unsolved problems. The most serious of them is CCP doesnt play EVE. Amd im certanly shure i don`t want to see peple that come for daily quests in my fleet. These are all things that are making a positive impact on EVE, providing more freedom for small gangs and breaking the blue donut. Funny how a Goon would not like those changes. Obligatory "don't let the door hit you on your way out", "can I have your stuff" and "as your last act in EVE will you come into the light and buy a mining permit, great value at only 10m ISK"? If CCP wants to reward (new) players with a small gift of SP for being online and active I can certainly appreciate it. Has nothing to do with new players and there are better ways to help them Citadel worm hole tax
Ria Nieyli 43770	Posted - 2016.04.19 08:51:28 - [1939] - Quote Erihn Sabrovich wrote: Well, CCP has to rebalance the game which also means take initiative which will hurt powerblocks. In other words, be prepared to see more changes that will affect you negatively... Rebalancing means taking care of the SP gap... it was OK when the game only had a few years old, with 10+ years of EVE, it's not OK anymore Rebalancing means making life hard to Powerblock so their zone of influence is shrunk damatically, to leave place for other corporations. This means other changes like the fatigue have to come. Rebalancing means bringing lower skill ships that should be able to face the biggest (cap-sized) one, in a paper-scissor-stone way. Rebalancing means removing T2 BPO Rebalancing means giving things to do to PvE players And so on... CSM, powerblocks and older players will most probably oppose as much as they can but it'll be useless... Rebalancing is needed and CCP will do it anyway... You've to understand that you won't have a choice, these changes WILL come anyway... And pissing off the dev with empty threats, curses and other won't do anything good to you. Another fact is that EVE is one of the few pay to play games that still remains... Many of them already switched to F2P... I hope EVE will stay pay 2 win as it somehow "protect" us from some kind of annoying players (kiddies) but CCP may already have F2P planned... If it's the case, we (players) won't be able to change that anyway. The purported SP gap - I am a "victim" of it. It doesn't bother me. If you want to narrow the gap between older players and newer ones, handing out free SP for dailies is the absolutely worst way to do it. Compress the skill tree so the initial skill buildup goes down from ~20m to 10? I don't know, but it will be a much better solution. Smaller ships can already face biggert ones. Several battleships can beat a carrier. Sieged dreads are pretty vulnerable if you bring a Bhaalgorn and some DPS, etc. etc. T2 BPOs provide nowhere near the demand of the modules they produce. They're mostly just a blip on the landscape, unless it's some niche item that nobody buys anyway. As for older players - you've got it backwards. It's not bittervets opposing changes like these. Well, not entirely. It's changes like these that created bittervets out of the people that oppose them. "slang" is shortened language for "shortened language"
Terranid Meester Tactical Assault and Recon Unit 374	Posted - 2016.04.19 13:28:32 - [1940] - Quote Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote: lexa21 wrote: del. Since 2014 EVE was getting worse and worse with every patch. Its time to leave. How harsh of you. Here comes CCP giving the 110% with Citadel and you don't like it becuse of a small last minute feature. In context it is not a 'small' feature. It is in fact bigger than any citadel. If it was small how come it is larger than the npc tax change thread? Explain that one.
X Mayce Manson Family Advent of Fate 5	Posted - 2016.04.19 14:16:28 - [1941] - Quote What are you guys all complaining about. For those who can log in daily it's a few free sp, for those who can't or are too lazy to do it -> ignore it 3650000 SP more per year, why not? but as some people here stated already, why not offering the chance to actively gather SP by doing stuff, instead of permanently waiting for it, it already started with the skill injectors. Don't always instantly cry against changes, consider all sites and please stop comparing WoW with EVE, I played WoW for 9 years and it has nothing to do with EVE. Regards Mayce Manson Family Advent of Fate
Lan Wang Knights of the Posing Meat FETID 2723	Posted - 2016.04.19 14:22:16 - [1942] - Quote X Mayce wrote: What are you guys all complaining about. For those who can log in daily it's a few free sp, for those who can't or are too lazy to do it -> ignore it 3650000 SP more per year, why not? but as some people here stated already, why not offering the chance to actively gather SP by doing stuff, instead of permanently waiting for it, it already started with the skill injectors. Don't always instantly cry against changes, consider all sites and please stop comparing WoW with EVE, I played WoW for 9 years and it has nothing to do with EVE. Regards Mayce You just dont get it... Ignore it? hmmm when i was on sisi i was instantly reminded about the new daily, so i hid it, undocked then redocked again and there it was again, unhidden, kinda hard to ignore something that is designed to annoy you FETID now recruiting pvp pilots & corporations \| lowsec pvp & piracy - Join FETID Loyalist to Angel Cartel & Serpentis
X Mayce Manson Family Advent of Fate 5	Posted - 2016.04.19 14:24:00 - [1943] - Quote Lan Wang wrote: X Mayce wrote: What are you guys all complaining about. For those who can log in daily it's a few free sp, for those who can't or are too lazy to do it -> ignore it 3650000 SP more per year, why not? but as some people here stated already, why not offering the chance to actively gather SP by doing stuff, instead of permanently waiting for it, it already started with the skill injectors. Don't always instantly cry against changes, consider all sites and please stop comparing WoW with EVE, I played WoW for 9 years and it has nothing to do with EVE. Regards Mayce You just dont get it... Ignore it? hmmm when i was on sisi i was instantly reminded about the new daily, so i hid it, undocked then redocked again and there it was again, unhidden, kinda hard to ignore something that is designed to annoy you So you give your feedback here and tell the devs, they shall please add something to hide those thingies - communication is the key Manson Family Advent of Fate
Lan Wang Knights of the Posing Meat FETID 2723	Posted - 2016.04.19 14:30:23 - [1944] - Quote X Mayce wrote: Lan Wang wrote: X Mayce wrote: What are you guys all complaining about. For those who can log in daily it's a few free sp, for those who can't or are too lazy to do it -> ignore it 3650000 SP more per year, why not? but as some people here stated already, why not offering the chance to actively gather SP by doing stuff, instead of permanently waiting for it, it already started with the skill injectors. Don't always instantly cry against changes, consider all sites and please stop comparing WoW with EVE, I played WoW for 9 years and it has nothing to do with EVE. Regards Mayce You just dont get it... Ignore it? hmmm when i was on sisi i was instantly reminded about the new daily, so i hid it, undocked then redocked again and there it was again, unhidden, kinda hard to ignore something that is designed to annoy you So you give your feedback here and tell the devs, they shall please add something to hide those thingies - communication is the key thats not how this works, thats how any of this works, dailies are designed to attract attention having a perma-hide button is counter productive and defeats the purpose, you can hide them but they reappear and will continue to reappear atleast daily. If you care to read the ample amount of feedback in this thread you will see everything has been pretty much covered on why this is just a terrible idea but that wont stop ccp implementing this or any other future "dailies". However this isnt a feedback thread, its a notification thread FETID now recruiting pvp pilots & corporations \| lowsec pvp & piracy - Join FETID Loyalist to Angel Cartel & Serpentis
Lavayar russian sobr Dream Fleet 269	Posted - 2016.04.19 14:34:26 - [1945] - Quote Lan Wang wrote: You just dont get it... Ignore it? hmmm when i was on sisi i was instantly reminded about the new daily, so i hid it, undocked then redocked again and there it was again, unhidden, kinda hard to ignore something that is designed to annoy you Well noted! Yesterday I joined mass test on sisi. And that stupid daily popped out every time I undock. That brought me again to hurtful thoughts.
Lan Wang Knights of the Posing Meat FETID 2726	Posted - 2016.04.19 14:39:25 - [1946] - Quote Lavayar wrote: Lan Wang wrote: You just dont get it... Ignore it? hmmm when i was on sisi i was instantly reminded about the new daily, so i hid it, undocked then redocked again and there it was again, unhidden, kinda hard to ignore something that is designed to annoy you Well noted! Yesterday I joined mass test on sisi. And that stupid daily popped out every time I undock. That brought me again to hurtful thoughts. yeah thats exactly what they are suppose to do, i wouldnt be suprised if they enabled push notifications to let me know that my daily has reset and then another to tell me i only have 1hour to complete the current daily to get my reward. INB4 full Facebook integration FETID now recruiting pvp pilots & corporations \| lowsec pvp & piracy - Join FETID Loyalist to Angel Cartel & Serpentis
Bonny Lee Corescape Inc. Blades of Grass 0	Posted - 2016.04.19 15:23:31 - [1947] - Quote My feedback in feedback forum was closed ;) So i repost it here: Hello CCP, while i do understand your incentive behind the planned "dailys" I am convinced you are doing it the wrong way. It's fact that a part of playerbase is strictly against handing out sp. Some of those don't like that there is another way to gain sp the other part is hating theneed to do dailys cause of their experience with other online games. While I do understand the first half, it's the second half that got the real argument. EVE always had a System in place that allowed you to keep up without the need to play every day. With the upcoming change you are hurting that part of eve badly. You punish those players , who can't log in on a daily basis. You are hurting people that escaped from the "daily"-madness other games introduced. It's even more frustrating cause you could achieve that goal in a cooler and better way. It should be your goal to do things better then all those other games. A bad feature still is a bad feature even if the incentive may be good. How to do it better: At first you should stop to punish those guys that can't log in on a daily basis. To do that you should change the timeframe from one day to a week. Instead of a daily task you now got a weekly task and a lot more players can take full advantage of this change. The second change is to step away from "kill a npc" to "do something". It's absolutely wrong to force people to change their gameplay. Make it "eve ingame action" instead. An eve ingame action could be killing a belt rat, placing a buy order , starting a module, activating a jump gate, or killing another player. Important is that every playstyle is getting enough "eve-actions" to get one every 2-3 minutes while playing. If you registered an eve-action on a client people are on a 5 minute cool down before they can get another eve action. In a week a maximum of lets say 50 eve-actions may be gathered. Every action is worth 1000sp. That's about the amount you are aiming currently. In 250 minutes of playing you are done. And it doesn't matter in what way you are playing. It's just important that you do play. Numbers could be tweaked of course. For most people it won't feel like you are doing dailys. They don't nned to change their playstyle. It's still an incentive to log in regulary and play the game. It's helping noobs to feel a kind of progress. If you are really nice you give people a kind of "holiday-mode" so they can chose4 weeks ayear to get those lp without having ingame actions. That way you can ensure people can relax on the beach while having an eve-break. In my opinion this approach to the login-problem is superior cause its more suited to the eve gamer in general. I hope I could give some ideas to think about. I'm no native speaker so please forgive my horrible grammatic =ƒÿâ
Axhind Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation 175	Posted - 2016.04.19 15:33:19 - [1948] - Quote NotTheSmartestCookie wrote: lexa21 wrote: Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote: lexa21 wrote: del. Since 2014 EVE was getting worse and worse with every patch. Its time to leave. How harsh of you. Here comes CCP giving the 110% with Citadel and you don't like it becuse of a small last minute feature. I dont need fatigue, fozzie, cap rebalance, hordes of svipuls, nullifier ships while CCP have so much unsolved problems. The most serious of them is CCP doesnt play EVE. Amd im certanly shure i don`t want to see peple that come for daily quests in my fleet. These are all things that are making a positive impact on EVE, providing more freedom for small gangs and breaking the blue donut. Funny how a Goon would not like those changes. Obligatory "don't let the door hit you on your way out", "can I have your stuff" and "as your last act in EVE will you come into the light and buy a mining permit, great value at only 10m ISK"? If CCP wants to reward (new) players with a small gift of SP for being online and active I can certainly appreciate it. Interesting how numbers war dropping despite all this small gang stuff becoming available and now they are going up that there is a huge ass war between basically everyone. Maybe CCPs vision of TF2 in space is not aligned with the wishes of their players. Chasing the theme park and small gang crowd is difficult as there are thousands of other games that offer same things only with a lot less grind. The one unique thing about eve is sandbox and huge fights, both of which CCP is actively sabotaging.
Jenn aSide Smokin Aces. 13943	Posted - 2016.04.19 18:50:19 - [1949] - Quote Axhind wrote: Interesting how numbers war dropping despite all this small gang stuff becoming available and now they are going up that there is a huge ass war between basically everyone. Maybe CCPs vision of TF2 in space is not aligned with the wishes of their players. Chasing the theme park and small gang crowd is difficult as there are thousands of other games that offer same things only with a lot less grind. The one unique thing about eve is sandbox and huge fights, both of which CCP is actively sabotaging. I couldn't agree with this more. I'm on record on this very forum as saying that CCP was shooting itself in the foot by imposing a small gang centered sov system on "big fight space" (sov null). Low sec, NPC null and wormholes already existed for small gang/solo stuff. But there is such a bias against 'blobbing' that we ended up with Aegis sov and many of us who like real fleet fights were left out in the cold. Before this latest war (which has mostly fizzled out), I can only think of 2-3 good fleet fights (like at least 70+ per side) I enjoyed in Aegis sov, and those fights didn't even involve the sov system! It wasn't a fleet fight a day in Dominion and I agree that Dominion sucked but this wack-a-mole crap sucks worse imo.
Azver Deroven Viziam Amarr Empire 9	Posted - 2016.04.19 21:24:20 - [1950] - Quote Drago Shouna wrote: Azver Deroven wrote: Snip I think they should link the dailies to the forums as well, log in 4 times a week or no forum posts. That way we might get posts from players that actually play, rather than just skill queue online. Or create alt after alt to protest about the same thing over and over. So your argument is that I'm not an eve-online player because I can't log in daily, sometimes weekly, because of work? Wow, you do realize how many groups, not least the armed force players, that can be applied to? You just made them out to be "Not players". Is that your intention? If that's the basis, can we maybe go step further? Make it so that only players with 10 accounts linked to their credit card can post. I mean, might as well since surely anyone with less isn't a true player either? DISCLAIMER: My views do not represent those of my alliance, my corporation or myself. Yes, I can even confuse myself from time to time.
Aydan Talvanen Bros Before Holes The Devils' Rejects 44	Posted - 2016.04.19 21:34:48 - [1951] - Quote Bonny Lee wrote: My feedback in feedback forum was closed ;) So i repost it here: Hello CCP, while i do understand your incentive behind the planned "dailys" I am convinced you are doing it the wrong way. It's fact that a part of playerbase is strictly against handing out sp. Some of those don't like that there is another way to gain sp the other part is hating theneed to do dailys cause of their experience with other online games. While I do understand the first half, it's the second half that got the real argument. EVE always had a System in place that allowed you to keep up without the need to play every day. With the upcoming change you are hurting that part of eve badly. You punish those players , who can't log in on a daily basis. You are hurting people that escaped from the "daily"-madness other games introduced. It's even more frustrating cause you could achieve that goal in a cooler and better way. It should be your goal to do things better then all those other games. A bad feature still is a bad feature even if the incentive may be good. How to do it better: At first you should stop to punish those guys that can't log in on a daily basis. To do that you should change the timeframe from one day to a week. Instead of a daily task you now got a weekly task and a lot more players can take full advantage of this change. The second change is to step away from "kill a npc" to "do something". It's absolutely wrong to force people to change their gameplay. Make it "eve ingame action" instead. An eve ingame action could be killing a belt rat, placing a buy order , starting a module, activating a jump gate, or killing another player. Important is that every playstyle is getting enough "eve-actions" to get one every 2-3 minutes while playing. If you registered an eve-action on a client people are on a 5 minute cool down before they can get another eve action. In a week a maximum of lets say 50 eve-actions may be gathered. Every action is worth 1000sp. That's about the amount you are aiming currently. In 250 minutes of playing you are done. And it doesn't matter in what way you are playing. It's just important that you do play. Numbers could be tweaked of course. For most people it won't feel like you are doing dailys. They don't nned to change their playstyle. It's still an incentive to log in regulary and play the game. It's helping noobs to feel a kind of progress. If you are really nice you give people a kind of "holiday-mode" so they can chose4 weeks ayear to get those lp without having ingame actions. That way you can ensure people can relax on the beach while having an eve-break. In my opinion this approach to the login-problem is superior cause its more suited to the eve gamer in general. I hope I could give some ideas to think about. I'm no native speaker so please forgive my horrible grammatic =ƒÿâ While I think your intentions are good, I still believe making people WANT to login is far superior than forcing them to log in. Don't devs play other MMOs? Tell me the name of a single MMO where the community LOVES dailies. None. Nuke it from orbit, dammit!
QuickKill Penken Righteous Choirboys The Bastion 1	Posted - 2016.04.19 22:04:47 - [1952] - Quote ty CCP for ******* the game up even more.... i wont be doing this cuz i'd rather do 3 escalations making the 600 mil isk for an injector and getting 150.000 sp for doing 45 mins of work than be spending -+ hour loggin in and out of the sad ass launcher that still after all these years does not allow swapping between chars on same account without closing the client. fix the real issues(aka. ccp features) instead of making up crap
Indahmawar Fazmarai 5072	Posted - 2016.04.19 22:35:43 - [1953] - Quote Axhind wrote: (...) Interesting how numbers war dropping despite all this small gang stuff becoming available and now they are going up that there is a huge ass war between basically everyone. Maybe CCPs vision of TF2 in space is not aligned with the wishes of their players. Chasing the theme park and small gang crowd is difficult as there are thousands of other games that offer same things only with a lot less grind. The one unique thing about eve is sandbox and huge fights, both of which CCP is actively sabotaging. Also is interesting how PCU rised with Blood Harvest, Frostline and The Hunt. It's as if PvE was capable of luring players... as if the majority, a VAST majority, of ex-EVE players are PvE types... if there are 2 PvE players for each PvPer and PvEr's stay subscribed for half the time as PvPrs, this means that 4 in 5 ex-players were PvE players. As for small vs big battle, some people pointed that maybe CCP's goal was to provide more meaningful experiences to more players. As in the most exhilarating, thrilling and "meaningful" fights for PvPrs were small fights, opposed to F1 monkeying under 10% TiDi. So would be a good thing to have lots of heart pumping small player-relevant battles each week, than a single game-relevant battle experienced as 6 hours of heavy TiDi once each six months. But frankly I am stepping out of my premises here.
Ria Nieyli 43775	Posted - 2016.04.19 22:58:41 - [1954] - Quote It's almost as if these three events coincided with holidays so people had more free time to play! "slang" is shortened language for "shortened language"
Vesan Terakol CK-0FF Violence of Action. 121	Posted - 2016.04.19 23:27:44 - [1955] - Quote For me, personally, this feature is OK, it will not hurt my feelings or anything that someone is getting more skillpoints for being out there in space. Yet, to me those daily incentives in games have always felt rather underwhelming or to the opposite, irritating in their rather unreasonable requirements generated by randomness in both the path to achieving them and the reward itself. About this one, i have to say... CCP, the value of your daily incentive is way up there. I've never, ever played a game that would reliably provide you with a boost of such magnitude RELIABLY as daily incentive.
Algathas Wraithguard. The Wraithguard. 73	Posted - 2016.04.20 02:49:30 - [1956] - Quote My main complaint with this is that it's only NPC kills and not also PVP kills. I PVP every day but rarely fight npcs. I would think that PVP is providing content to the game with more interaction than PVE so should at least get an equal reward.
Bemo Narcosis. 25	Posted - 2016.04.20 04:46:00 - [1957] - Quote Please just stop. Take a step back. THINK about what you are doing. You are destroying the game you have built. You are running off your player base little by little and this time its for a half assed idea that tops them all so far. I dont want to feel the need to login cause it has the opposite effect. It makes me NOT want to log in. Is it really worth it to you? To have a few more login daily and end up possibly losing more than you started with?
Axhind Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation 179	Posted - 2016.04.20 05:23:14 - [1958] - Quote Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote: Axhind wrote: (...) Interesting how numbers war dropping despite all this small gang stuff becoming available and now they are going up that there is a huge ass war between basically everyone. Maybe CCPs vision of TF2 in space is not aligned with the wishes of their players. Chasing the theme park and small gang crowd is difficult as there are thousands of other games that offer same things only with a lot less grind. The one unique thing about eve is sandbox and huge fights, both of which CCP is actively sabotaging. Also is interesting how PCU rised with Blood Harvest, Frostline and The Hunt. It's as if PvE was capable of luring players... as if the majority, a VAST majority, of ex-EVE players are PvE types... if there are 2 PvE players for each PvPer and PvEr's stay subscribed for half the time as PvPrs, this means that 4 in 5 ex-players were PvE players. As for small vs big battle, some people pointed that maybe CCP's goal was to provide more meaningful experiences to more players. As in the most exhilarating, thrilling and "meaningful" fights for PvPrs were small fights, opposed to F1 monkeying under 10% TiDi. So would be a good thing to have lots of heart pumping small player-relevant battles each week, than a single game-relevant battle experienced as 6 hours of heavy TiDi once each six months. But frankly I am stepping out of my premises here. I know that this is hard to understand but many players have several characters and they tend to be specialised. Yes improved PvE will increase the numbers so why is PvE not being improved? Daily "shoot any rat" can hardly be called engaging PvE even by CCP. Issue with small gang stuff is that you are competing with every single FPS out there, except that there is zero grind in them. TF2 16v16 experience is always going to be much less grindy than equivalent fight in EVE. However, large fights are unique to EVE. Not to mention that large fights are far more complex than bashing F1 but since you obviously have no experience of that level of logistics and control it's not surprising that you don't see it. Problem with CCP is that they are destroying what makes EVE unique in the bid to try and be a normal MMO. Problem with that is that every other MMO is going down the drain and losing players. Then they get desperate and introduce dailies turning slow decay into a crash.
Drago Shouna Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire 349	Posted - 2016.04.20 05:32:12 - [1959] - Quote Azver Deroven wrote: Drago Shouna wrote: Azver Deroven wrote: Snip I think they should link the dailies to the forums as well, log in 4 times a week or no forum posts. That way we might get posts from players that actually play, rather than just skill queue online. Or create alt after alt to protest about the same thing over and over. So your argument is that I'm not an eve-online player because I can't log in daily, sometimes weekly, because of work? Wow, you do realize how many groups, not least the armed force players, that can be applied to? You just made them out to be "Not players". Is that your intention? If that's the basis, can we maybe go step further? Make it so that only players with 10 accounts linked to their credit card can post. I mean, might as well since surely anyone with less isn't a true player either? You implied more than weekly between log ins, for "ages" is what you said. So no, you just subscribe to eve, not actually play it, I'd also apply it to anyone doing the same thing. In a classic sense, anyone not logging in for that long and doing stuff in game isn't playing it. I sub to another couple of games but haven't logged in for a while, am I playing them, or just handing cash over for no reason?
X Mayce Manson Family Advent of Fate 8	Posted - 2016.04.20 06:42:55 - [1960] - Quote The reason why most people hate "dailies" in other mmos is, they are mandatory to be done there. To grind x amount of reputation or to grind y amount of whatever crap so you can finally enter a dungeon or whatever and you have to do them as long as needed to achieve the respective thing. This change here has nothing to do with that. The dailies ccp introduces here are not more than: hey if you are willing to do it, you get a small reward. - That's it. So they are by no means "required" to be done. Manson Family Advent of Fate
Ria Nieyli 43783	Posted - 2016.04.20 07:51:21 - [1961] - Quote Drago Shouna wrote: You implied more than weekly between log ins, for "ages" is what you said. So no, you just subscribe to eve, not actually play it, I'd also apply it to anyone doing the same thing. In a classic sense, anyone not logging in for that long and doing stuff in game isn't playing it. I sub to another couple of games but haven't logged in for a while, am I playing them, or just handing cash over for no reason? The difference is the EVE skill queue. Here, maintaining a subscription gives you the same benefit regardless of whether you play or not. Other games, not so much. So yes, you're wasting money. X Mayce wrote: The reason why most people hate "dailies" in other mmos is, they are mandatory to be done there. To grind x amount of reputation or to grind y amount of whatever crap so you can finally enter a dungeon or whatever and you have to do them as long as needed to achieve the respective thing. This change here has nothing to do with that. The dailies ccp introduces here are not more than: hey if you are willing to do it, you get a small reward. - That's it. So they are by no means "required" to be done. And if you can't do it for whatever reason, say being unable to log in due to irl, you miss out on that reward and essentially get penalised. "slang" is shortened language for "shortened language"
Erihn Sabrovich 11	Posted - 2016.04.20 08:14:38 - [1962] - Quote Algathas wrote: My main complaint with this is that it's only NPC kills and not also PVP kills. I PVP every day but rarely fight npcs. I would think that PVP is providing content to the game with more interaction than PVE so should at least get an equal reward. From what I've read, this is only the first recurring opportunity... I wouldn't be surprised that at a latter time, CCP would add PvP kills as another opportunity...
Erihn Sabrovich 12	Posted - 2016.04.20 08:20:35 - [1963] - Quote Ria Nieyli wrote: X Mayce wrote: The reason why most people hate "dailies" in other mmos is, they are mandatory to be done there. To grind x amount of reputation or to grind y amount of whatever crap so you can finally enter a dungeon or whatever and you have to do them as long as needed to achieve the respective thing. This change here has nothing to do with that. The dailies ccp introduces here are not more than: hey if you are willing to do it, you get a small reward. - That's it. So they are by no means "required" to be done. And if you can't do it for whatever reason, say being unable to log in due to irl, you miss out on that reward and essentially get penalised. There is a huge difference between this one (SP for killing one rat) and Dailies in games like WoW. In WoW for example, dailies were the ONLY way to grind the reputation for different factions and that reputation was required for various things (mounts, pets, armor, achievements... during BC it was sometimes even a prerequisite to access some raid). Do not forget that even if you don't do the daily opportunity, you still earn SP. Which means that you are NOT PUNISHED OR PENALIZED WHEN YOU DON'T DO THEM. What you're saying is as stupid as saying that not doing PI is penalizing you because you don't get the ISK from it.
Ria Nieyli 43783	Posted - 2016.04.20 08:32:31 - [1964] - Quote Erihn Sabrovich wrote: There is a huge difference between this one (SP for killing one rat) and Dailies in games like WoW. In WoW for example, dailies were the ONLY way to grind the reputation for different factions and that reputation was required for various things (mounts, pets, armor, achievements... during BC it was sometimes even a prerequisite to access some raid). Do not forget that even if you don't do the daily opportunity, you still earn SP. Which means that you are NOT PUNISHED OR PENALIZED WHEN YOU DON'T DO THEM. What you're saying is as stupid as saying that not doing PI is penalizing you because you don't get the ISK from it. Rep in WoW has a max value. Once you reach it, you never need to do those dailies again. On the other hand, the maximum SP value in EVE is rather hard to reach right now. It's not a tangible goal for people yet. You see, there's a maximum training speed of 2700 sp/hour. The daily represents 454 additional sp/hour. That's just above having a set of +5 implants plugged in addition to whatever you currently have. And if you don't log in today, you don't get that. It is a straight up penalty. In the same vein of thoughts, yes, not doing PI means you're out some ISK. It's called an opportunity cost. "slang" is shortened language for "shortened language"
Lan Wang Knights of the Posing Meat FETID 2731	Posted - 2016.04.20 08:45:33 - [1965] - Quote this is the thing people keep comparing this to isk, its not even a comparable variable. isk can be made with any activity in eve, extra sp can only be made by shooting a rat, therefore it penalises every other activity. ccp maybe you should have stuck this idea on the back burner till you actually had a solution for the pvp side of things and the rest of the characters who choose not to shoot rats instead of just throwing something into the game and hoping for the best and giving us a "well the pvp rewards is a little tricky so we will think about that another time, till then shoot some rats so we can get some numbers together and just deal with it" FETID now recruiting pvp pilots & corporations \| lowsec pvp & piracy - Join FETID Loyalist to Angel Cartel & Serpentis
Aeon Veritas Easily.Offended The Bastion 24	Posted - 2016.04.20 08:49:46 - [1966] - Quote As many already wrote, the title of the thread is "Daily Opportunities coming soon"... I think there is sadly no way to convince CCP to discard this idea, so let's make the best out of it. My first proposal is to not have the 22h cooldown, but to use the downtime to reset the daily timer. This would extend the time one can be logged out without missing a daily to roughly 46h. Second: Don't have only skillpoints as reward. Have a character bound repeating queue of rewards, like on the first day you get 1000 Concord LP, on the second day you get 5 AURUM and on the third day you get 5000 skillpoints. This queue only advances if a reward is claimed. I don't think those numbers are high enought to actually devaluing the currencies in question, if they do they can be revised downwards. CCP Rise wrote: Why so lazy? Lots of feedback about the feature having such a minimalist implementation. First, let me clear up some confusion by saying that this feature has no relationship with the 'Tribute' system that was described last year at EVE Vegas. That feature has actually gone down a path more focused on goal setting and long term engagement than daily activity and so the daily part was broken off and given to our team separately. With that in mind, we are trying to find the right mix of activity and accessibility. We want you to be able to collect this reward during a lunch break or a 10 minute period where your kids are in timeout but also want to make sure there's some real gameplay associated with it. We think getting to a belt or gate for an NPC is about the right mix and that's why we've landed with this. That said, we've also deliberately tried to keep it simple so that we can deploy fast and adjust based on how it gets used. We are absolutely open to expanding the list of activities in the future and imagined that as one of the most likely first iterations. Small sidenote on activities: many of you mentioned PVP, remember that this is always problematic because the most effective way to PVP for rewards is just kill your own alt, which isn't very fun or interesting. Regarding this, you have to be aware of what you want. Either you want people to log in and actualy play your game or you want them just to log in to boost some statistical values. If you want them to actualy play your game you should increase the requirement to claim the daily reward. Something like killing 50 NPC, it should be roughly equal to 1-2 missions / cosmic anormalys. Add other requirements like mining a set amount of m-¦ of ore or ice or doing some Project Discovery samples. If you just want boost some statistical values give this stuff right away as soon the character is loged in... Because frankly wanting someone to log in and "to be able to collect this reward during a lunch break or a 10 minute period where your kids are in timeout" is nothing else.
Erihn Sabrovich 12	Posted - 2016.04.20 09:08:30 - [1967] - Quote Lan Wang wrote: this is the thing people keep comparing this to isk, its not even a comparable variable. isk can be made with any activity in eve, extra sp can only be made by shooting a rat, therefore it penalises every other activity. Not anymore as you may buy SP with ISK (thanks to the injectors). Someone made the calc (Green Goblin) : cost of plex for training an extra character + plex for aurum (to buy empty injectors) is much smaller than value of the injectors on EVE Market Which means that SP-farming on alt which don't need to be trained anymore is a rentable activity... So, like it or not, SP is not an unique item anymore, it has become a commodity like many other things in EVE
Lan Wang Knights of the Posing Meat FETID 2731	Posted - 2016.04.20 09:14:29 - [1968] - Quote Erihn Sabrovich wrote: Lan Wang wrote: this is the thing people keep comparing this to isk, its not even a comparable variable. isk can be made with any activity in eve, extra sp can only be made by shooting a rat, therefore it penalises every other activity. Not anymore as you may buy SP with ISK (thanks to the injectors). Someone made the calc (Green Goblin) : cost of plex for training an extra character + plex for aurum (to buy empty injectors) is much smaller than value of the injectors on EVE Market Which means that SP-farming on alt which don't need to be trained anymore is a rentable activity... So, like it or not, SP is not an unique item anymore, it has become a commodity like many other things in EVE again...you can do any activity in eve to make isk to buy injectors, the extra 4mil sp a year is only available if you shoot a rat, if you dont shoot the rat you are losing 4mil sp a year. if someone who doesn't shoot a rat buys the same amount of injectors as the person who shoots rats for a year then the person who isnt shooting a rat is being penalised by 4mil sp a year even though he logs in every day like the ratter does. surely this cant be too hard for you to understand? FETID now recruiting pvp pilots & corporations \| lowsec pvp & piracy - Join FETID Loyalist to Angel Cartel & Serpentis
Erihn Sabrovich 13	Posted - 2016.04.20 10:26:04 - [1969] - Quote Lan Wang wrote: Erihn Sabrovich wrote: Lan Wang wrote: this is the thing people keep comparing this to isk, its not even a comparable variable. isk can be made with any activity in eve, extra sp can only be made by shooting a rat, therefore it penalises every other activity. Not anymore as you may buy SP with ISK (thanks to the injectors). Someone made the calc (Green Goblin) : cost of plex for training an extra character + plex for aurum (to buy empty injectors) is much smaller than value of the injectors on EVE Market Which means that SP-farming on alt which don't need to be trained anymore is a rentable activity... So, like it or not, SP is not an unique item anymore, it has become a commodity like many other things in EVE again...you can do any activity in eve to make isk to buy injectors, the extra 4mil sp a year is only available if you shoot a rat, if you dont shoot the rat you are losing 4mil sp a year. if someone who doesn't shoot a rat buys the same amount of injectors as the person who shoots rats for a year then the person who isnt shooting a rat is being penalised by 4mil sp a year even though he logs in every day like the ratter does. surely this cant be too hard for you to understand? You're quite dense aren't you ? There is no limit to the number of injector that you can buy... If you don't want to keep killing a rat, you may do anything else, buy the injectors and get the same amount of SP... OTOH, newer players can't buy these expensive injectors so for newer players, that "kill a rat" thing is an alternative that is within their reach. By not shooting the rats, you're definitively not losing 4m SP... By the way, it's strongly unlikely that even a single player will repeat that "killing a rat" 7/7, 365/365... it's way more likely that they'll at most do it for 180-200 days/year... even if they are no lifes... So your 4m SP is an huge exageration.
Ria Nieyli 43785	Posted - 2016.04.20 10:33:50 - [1970] - Quote Erihn Sabrovich wrote: You're quite dense aren't you ? There is no limit to the number of injector that you can buy... If you don't want to keep killing a rat, you may do anything else, buy the injectors and get the same amount of SP... OTOH, newer players can't buy these expensive injectors so for newer players, that "kill a rat" thing is an alternative that is within their reach. By not shooting the rats, you're definitively not losing 4m SP... By the way, it's strongly unlikely that even a single player will repeat that "killing a rat" 7/7, 365/365... it's way more likely that they'll at most do it for 180-200 days/year... even if they are no lifes... So your 4m SP is an huge exageration. You see, there's a maximum training speed of 2700 sp/hour. The daily represents 454 additional sp/hour. That's just above having a set of +5 implants plugged in addition to whatever you currently have. And if you don't log in today, you don't get that. It is a straight up penalty. "slang" is shortened language for "shortened language"
Lan Wang Knights of the Posing Meat FETID 2733	Posted - 2016.04.20 10:42:16 - [1971] - Quote Erihn Sabrovich wrote: Lan Wang wrote: Erihn Sabrovich wrote: Lan Wang wrote: this is the thing people keep comparing this to isk, its not even a comparable variable. isk can be made with any activity in eve, extra sp can only be made by shooting a rat, therefore it penalises every other activity. Not anymore as you may buy SP with ISK (thanks to the injectors). Someone made the calc (Green Goblin) : cost of plex for training an extra character + plex for aurum (to buy empty injectors) is much smaller than value of the injectors on EVE Market Which means that SP-farming on alt which don't need to be trained anymore is a rentable activity... So, like it or not, SP is not an unique item anymore, it has become a commodity like many other things in EVE again...you can do any activity in eve to make isk to buy injectors, the extra 4mil sp a year is only available if you shoot a rat, if you dont shoot the rat you are losing 4mil sp a year. if someone who doesn't shoot a rat buys the same amount of injectors as the person who shoots rats for a year then the person who isnt shooting a rat is being penalised by 4mil sp a year even though he logs in every day like the ratter does. surely this cant be too hard for you to understand? You're quite dense aren't you ? There is no limit to the number of injector that you can buy... If you don't want to keep killing a rat, you may do anything else, buy the injectors and get the same amount of SP... OTOH, newer players can't buy these expensive injectors so for newer players, that "kill a rat" thing is an alternative that is within their reach. By not shooting the rats, you're definitively not losing 4m SP... By the way, it's strongly unlikely that even a single player will repeat that "killing a rat" 7/7, 365/365... it's way more likely that they'll at most do it for 180-200 days/year... even if they are no lifes... So your 4m SP is an huge exageration. Dense, thats really funny coming from someone who cant understand a basic feature and how it works FETID now recruiting pvp pilots & corporations \| lowsec pvp & piracy - Join FETID Loyalist to Angel Cartel & Serpentis
Erihn Sabrovich 13	Posted - 2016.04.20 13:27:27 - [1972] - Quote Lan Wang wrote: Dense, thats really funny coming from someone who cant understand a basic feature and how it works Your comment is funny coming from someone who can't understand what a GAME is and the basic notion of enjoying one's life
Ashlar Vellum PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 238	Posted - 2016.04.20 17:27:14 - [1973] - Quote Erihn Sabrovich wrote: You're quite dense aren't you ? There is no limit to the number of injector that you can buy... If you don't want to keep killing a rat, you may do anything else, buy the injectors and get the same amount of SP... OTOH, newer players can't buy these expensive injectors so for newer players, that "kill a rat" thing is an alternative that is within their reach. By not shooting the rats, you're definitively not losing 4m SP... By the way, it's strongly unlikely that even a single player will repeat that "killing a rat" 7/7, 365/365... it's way more likely that they'll at most do it for 180-200 days/year... even if they are no lifes... So your 4m SP is an huge exageration. New or old players aren't really relevant, it was not designed to help players train in the first place. Funny to see people trying to defend boring and poorly thought out game mechanics so hard tho.
Erihn Sabrovich 14	Posted - 2016.04.20 20:59:23 - [1974] - Quote Ashlar Vellum wrote: Erihn Sabrovich wrote: You're quite dense aren't you ? There is no limit to the number of injector that you can buy... If you don't want to keep killing a rat, you may do anything else, buy the injectors and get the same amount of SP... OTOH, newer players can't buy these expensive injectors so for newer players, that "kill a rat" thing is an alternative that is within their reach. By not shooting the rats, you're definitively not losing 4m SP... By the way, it's strongly unlikely that even a single player will repeat that "killing a rat" 7/7, 365/365... it's way more likely that they'll at most do it for 180-200 days/year... even if they are no lifes... So your 4m SP is an huge exageration. New or old players aren't really relevant, it was not designed to help players train in the first place. Funny to see people trying to defend boring and poorly thought out game mechanics so hard tho. It is relevant : new player don't have the ISK to buy injectors... but as they just joined the game, they are more likely to follow the way of the daily opportunity. Older players usually have steady ISK income and can buy injectors... but as their way of playing is well established, they are likely to be pi***d by the "kill a rat" thing...
NovaCat13 Seymourus and Co. 180	Posted - 2016.04.20 21:33:28 - [1975] - Quote Erihn Sabrovich wrote: Older players usually have their way of playing well established, they are likely to call CCP on their **** things... FTFY
Terranid Meester Tactical Assault and Recon Unit 376	Posted - 2016.04.21 01:10:44 - [1976] - Quote A couple of other things. If someone wants to do Serpentis missions in Fountain doing these Daily Opportunities will hurt their standings if they kill the npc's tied to Fountain namely Serpentis npcs. You basically hurt your own chances of doing pve if you do this pve. And on a more [very] minor note, say someone has maxed out their sp with skill injectors the value of extra sp is fairly low.
Axhind Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation 179	Posted - 2016.04.21 08:13:06 - [1977] - Quote Erihn Sabrovich wrote: Ashlar Vellum wrote: Erihn Sabrovich wrote: You're quite dense aren't you ? There is no limit to the number of injector that you can buy... If you don't want to keep killing a rat, you may do anything else, buy the injectors and get the same amount of SP... OTOH, newer players can't buy these expensive injectors so for newer players, that "kill a rat" thing is an alternative that is within their reach. By not shooting the rats, you're definitively not losing 4m SP... By the way, it's strongly unlikely that even a single player will repeat that "killing a rat" 7/7, 365/365... it's way more likely that they'll at most do it for 180-200 days/year... even if they are no lifes... So your 4m SP is an huge exageration. New or old players aren't really relevant, it was not designed to help players train in the first place. Funny to see people trying to defend boring and poorly thought out game mechanics so hard tho. It is relevant : new player don't have the ISK to buy injectors... but as they just joined the game, they are more likely to follow the way of the daily opportunity. Older players usually have steady ISK income and can buy injectors... but as their way of playing is well established, they are likely to be pi*d by the "kill a rat" thing... You do realise that new player has a lot less invested in the game and a lot less experience with what makes EVE great (none if it involves rats) so their burn out rate from having to login every 22 hours is going to be even higher than for veterans. Especially as the relative value of the SP is higher for new players. Even with the current war it's questionable that CCP can afford to burn out new players before they even start properly. If you wanted to support new players the SP would be one time thing tied to doing NPE arcs. It's still a ** idea as it trains the players to expect high rewards and scripted game play but not nearly as bad as dailies are.
Lan Wang Knights of the Posing Meat FETID 2743	Posted - 2016.04.21 08:22:09 - [1978] - Quote Erihn Sabrovich wrote: Ashlar Vellum wrote: Erihn Sabrovich wrote: You're quite dense aren't you ? There is no limit to the number of injector that you can buy... If you don't want to keep killing a rat, you may do anything else, buy the injectors and get the same amount of SP... OTOH, newer players can't buy these expensive injectors so for newer players, that "kill a rat" thing is an alternative that is within their reach. By not shooting the rats, you're definitively not losing 4m SP... By the way, it's strongly unlikely that even a single player will repeat that "killing a rat" 7/7, 365/365... it's way more likely that they'll at most do it for 180-200 days/year... even if they are no lifes... So your 4m SP is an huge exageration. New or old players aren't really relevant, it was not designed to help players train in the first place. Funny to see people trying to defend boring and poorly thought out game mechanics so hard tho. It is relevant : new player don't have the ISK to buy injectors... but as they just joined the game, they are more likely to follow the way of the daily opportunity. Older players usually have steady ISK income and can buy injectors... but as their way of playing is well established, they are likely to be pi*d by the "kill a rat" thing... you know you can buy injectors with rl cash right? plenty of new players are happy to throw rl cash at games and ive seen a few new players on the forums praise the injectors because they can use rl cash, because thats exactly what that mechanic was designed to do. FETID now recruiting pvp pilots & corporations \| lowsec pvp & piracy -** Join FETID Loyalist to Angel Cartel & Serpentis
Ashlar Vellum PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 243	Posted - 2016.04.21 17:06:03 - [1979] - Quote Erihn Sabrovich wrote: Ashlar Vellum wrote: Erihn Sabrovich wrote: You're quite dense aren't you ? There is no limit to the number of injector that you can buy... If you don't want to keep killing a rat, you may do anything else, buy the injectors and get the same amount of SP... OTOH, newer players can't buy these expensive injectors so for newer players, that "kill a rat" thing is an alternative that is within their reach. By not shooting the rats, you're definitively not losing 4m SP... By the way, it's strongly unlikely that even a single player will repeat that "killing a rat" 7/7, 365/365... it's way more likely that they'll at most do it for 180-200 days/year... even if they are no lifes... So your 4m SP is an huge exageration. New or old players aren't really relevant, it was not designed to help players train in the first place. Funny to see people trying to defend boring and poorly thought out game mechanics so hard tho. It is relevant : new player don't have the ISK to buy injectors... but as they just joined the game, they are more likely to follow the way of the daily opportunity. Older players usually have steady ISK income and can buy injectors... but as their way of playing is well established, they are likely to be pi***d by the "kill a rat" thing... We could continue our "it is/is not" merry-go-round if you want, but as posted by Rise "... I can just say that this is not a new player targeted feature ..." Do we really need to? Also there is nothing to be pissed by, people just saying things as they are. Dailies as proposed right now are poorly thought out, forced and boring, basically it's a bare bone concept.
Ivan Stoner Old American Syndicate Silent Infinity 13	Posted - 2016.04.21 17:50:29 - [1980] - Quote Its not relavent anymore how you dicuss about the Daily Opportunities. They are live on SISI. They will probably come with the Citadel Expansion. A big thank you to CCP Rise to change Eve slowly to a Casual Game.
Glitch Online Coffee Lovers Brewing Club Silent Infinity 3	Posted - 2016.04.21 20:11:31 - [1981] - Quote I was going to write a lengthy response, but (althou scattered) all the reasons why its a bad idea have been said.
ACESsiggy Pandemic Horde Inc. 50	Posted - 2016.04.22 00:11:50 - [1982] - Quote Lan Wang wrote: this is the thing people keep comparing this to isk, its not even a comparable variable. isk can be made with any activity in eve, extra sp can only be made by shooting a rat, therefore it penalises every other activity. ccp maybe you should have stuck this idea on the back burner till you actually had a solution for the pvp side of things and the rest of the characters who choose not to shoot rats instead of just throwing something into the game and hoping for the best and giving us a "well the pvp rewards is a little tricky so we will think about that another time, till then shoot some rats so we can get some numbers together and just deal with it" SKill points or isk - it is a sandbox so go gather your toys and do as you wish. If you feel that your toys are being taken away by CCP I totally agree you should be upset. But this notion that you're being penalized is absurd and holds no basis for an argument because nothing is forcing you to take part in Opportunities. And As a veteran player such as yourself you know 10k skill points is very helpful for a new player but Being butt hurt for roughly 4million sp during the entire year (that is of course you do them each and every day) is extremely sophomoric. Cheers! GÇ£The open-minded see the truth in different things: the narrow-minded see only the differences.GÇ¥
Shallanna Yassavi Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 145	Posted - 2016.04.22 01:13:43 - [1983] - Quote ACESsiggy wrote: Lan Wang wrote: this is the thing people keep comparing this to isk, its not even a comparable variable. isk can be made with any activity in eve, extra sp can only be made by shooting a rat, therefore it penalises every other activity. ccp maybe you should have stuck this idea on the back burner till you actually had a solution for the pvp side of things and the rest of the characters who choose not to shoot rats instead of just throwing something into the game and hoping for the best and giving us a "well the pvp rewards is a little tricky so we will think about that another time, till then shoot some rats so we can get some numbers together and just deal with it" SKill points or isk - it is a sandbox so go gather your toys and do as you wish. If you feel that your toys are being taken away by CCP I totally agree you should be upset. But this notion that you're being penalized is absurd and holds no basis for an argument because nothing is forcing you to take part in Opportunities. And As a veteran player such as yourself you know 10k skill points is very helpful for a new player but Being butt hurt for roughly 4million sp during the entire year (that is of course you do them each and every day) is extremely sophomoric. Cheers! Rise answered that. A not insignificant number of SP was the only "carrot" they thought they could dangle in front of us which we would actually go after. A signature :o
Worf McGregor EVE University Ivy League 6	Posted - 2016.04.22 03:06:26 - [1984] - Quote Wow, 100 pages and counting, it is really interesting that there has been this much to be said about this topic of "Daily Opportunities coming soon". As stated, it is coming whether you want it or not. I am impressed if CCP even reads all of this. It looks like there were only a few that liked it or was ok with it. But, I was impressed that about a third of the comments had the facts wrong that CCP put out on the very first message. CCP said, "The version of the feature we are planning to deploy first will be a simple 10,000 skill point reward that a character will receive the first time they kill an NPC ship every 22 hours (limited one character per account per day, chosen based on which character completes the task first). " So just the first character (of possibly 3) on a account that does the required action (Which, so far, is to kill a NPC) gets 10,000SP. Even if that action was done in the course of doing that character's normal routine. I.E. As a mining character, I go out to a belt and start mining. A rat (NPC) comes along, I deploy Drones, Blap, the rat is killed. I get 10,000SP {AND} the bounty on the rat in ISK. If I close the character down and start up the 2nd and later the 3rd character on that same account, in that same 22 hour period. Even if they kill a rat (NPC), they get nothing, but the bounty. Personally, I see nothing wrong with this idea. I'll take the skill points. And because the 2nd and 3rd characters don't have anything being trained, I would start one of them up first, go kill the rat (or whatever other option CCP gives us) for the SP to assist that character's skill training. So that the first character that is utilizing the skill que can keep on training, but both characters can advance. So yes, I would then log on with one of my other character(s) each and every day, a character that I would probably not even play (and have not even thought about). Then re-log back on with my main character and do my normal routine for the day. So I say to all the negative commenting people, if you don't want to, then don't. You don't loose anything by not doing it, like the original 24 hour Skill Que. You just don't get the benefit if you don't. Does anyone really need to say more?
Sabriz Adoudel Move along there is nothing here 5782	Posted - 2016.04.22 03:55:14 - [1985] - Quote CCP Rise wrote: Another small update: Thanks to feedback we see that it would improve the experience quite a lot minimize the amount of characters available for this reward so we are going to limit the reward to the first character completing the daily task on each account. Thanks A slight amount of polish on a turd still leaves you with a turd. Get rid of this idea. It's a big 'f you' to people that cannot log in regularly . I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com Sabriz's Rule: "Any time someone argues for a game change claiming it is a quality of life change, the change is actually a game balance change".
Axhind Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation 183	Posted - 2016.04.22 06:30:40 - [1986] - Quote Ivan Stoner wrote: Its not relavent anymore how you dicuss about the Daily Opportunities. They are live on SISI. They will probably come with the Citadel Expansion. A big thank you to CCP Rise to change Eve slowly to a Casual Game. Not sure you can call it casual with forced login every 22 hours. More like welcome to grindsvile and prepare for yet another MMO dying.
Axhind Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation 183	Posted - 2016.04.22 06:36:13 - [1987] - Quote Worf McGregor wrote: Wow, 100 pages and counting, it is really interesting that there has been this much to be said about this topic of "Daily Opportunities coming soon". As stated, it is coming whether you want it or not. I am impressed if CCP even reads all of this. It looks like there were only a few that liked it or was ok with it. But, I was impressed that about a third of the comments had the facts wrong that CCP put out on the very first message. CCP said, "The version of the feature we are planning to deploy first will be a simple 10,000 skill point reward that a character will receive the first time they kill an NPC ship every 22 hours (limited one character per account per day, chosen based on which character completes the task first). " So just the first character (of possibly 3) on a account that does the required action (Which, so far, is to kill a NPC) gets 10,000SP. Even if that action was done in the course of doing that character's normal routine. I.E. As a mining character, I go out to a belt and start mining. A rat (NPC) comes along, I deploy Drones, Blap, the rat is killed. I get 10,000SP {AND} the bounty on the rat in ISK. If I close the character down and start up the 2nd and later the 3rd character on that same account, in that same 22 hour period. Even if they kill a rat (NPC), they get nothing, but the bounty. Personally, I see nothing wrong with this idea. I'll take the skill points. And because the 2nd and 3rd characters don't have anything being trained, I would start one of them up first, go kill the rat (or whatever other option CCP gives us) for the SP to assist that character's skill training. So that the first character that is utilizing the skill que can keep on training, but both characters can advance. So yes, I would then log on with one of my other character(s) each and every day, a character that I would probably not even play (and have not even thought about). Then re-log back on with my main character and do my normal routine for the day. So I say to all the negative commenting people, if you don't want to, then don't. You don't loose anything by not doing it, like the original 24 hour Skill Que. You just don't get the benefit if you don't. Does anyone really need to say more? Wow. Try to read the negative comments instead of drinking CCP koolaid. It's a well known psychological trick that works well on majority of humans and is a reason why it's implemented by failing MMOs trying to artificially boost their numbers (probably to defend those 30 mil $ they took in debt to faf around with 6v6 F2P FPS...). This is like saying that people can ignore gravity, they can't because this is how our brains work. If you are aware of the trick you can fight it but it still leaves a negative feeling. So either you get negative feeling from being forced to do **** every 22 hours or you get negative feeling for missing out. There is a reason that every single game that implemented dailies has been dropping players faster and faster. EVE was unique in that it respected players time and that most of them (at least ones with actual money) have lives outside the game. No more. Grindsvile is here and numbers will drop even more as it's clear that the whole management is on some very bad shrooms.
Lance a'Lot Socially Challenged 0	Posted - 2016.04.22 06:47:22 - [1988] - Quote I like it. I see a lot of doomsday prophets complaining about the token reward of 10k SP. I really don't see a problem with this, any more than with implants or boosters. Isn't that basically the same thing, SP out of "nowhere"? If the recurring opportunity isn't for you, just don't do it. Just like any other game content.
Axhind Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation 185	Posted - 2016.04.22 07:15:18 - [1989] - Quote Lance a'Lot wrote: I like it. I see a lot of doomsday prophets complaining about the token reward of 10k SP. I really don't see a problem with this, any more than with implants or boosters. Isn't that basically the same thing, SP out of "nowhere"? If the recurring opportunity isn't for you, just don't do it. Just like any other game content. Boosters are just bad and main feature of them is that they are a money grab by CCP. Implants and remaps reward you for long term thinking and planning which is the whole point of eve. Daily grind is exactly the opposite of that. It rewards robotic behaviour which is not appreciated by the people with more than zero brain cells. There are plenty of grindy games out there and barely any of them are making real money. EVE can't afford to get rid of everyone that has a job and/or family. Changing the game to fit 13y.o. kids is hardly going to bring in the money that CCP is hoping for. That crowd plays F2P games for free as disposable income of kids is pretty terrible compared to adults. However, adults usually don't have time to game every day for extended periods of time and being forced to do so will drive them away.
Lavayar Russian SOBR Dream Fleet 271	Posted - 2016.04.22 07:31:05 - [1990] - Quote Lance a'Lot wrote: Just like any other game content. No, it's not "like any other game content". There were two meta in EVE. Gain SP and gain ISK. Gaining SP was declared constant mechanics. All other mechanics provided ISK gain based on your activity. So, players appreciated EVE for this. And now CCP screwed this meta by implementing skill injectors. Next step dailies. And with each step its getting worse. I assume that many players will adapt to this new meta. But that will not be the same EVE as we know it.
Raging Bull Unchained Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 20	Posted - 2016.04.22 07:56:09 - [1991] - Quote I feel like i just upgraded my account from trial to full at the right time. This 10k skillpoints will come in very helpfully right now (@ ~900k skillpoints). I wouldnt feel bad if there-¦s an limit like 5 or 10m skillpoints. Higher then that and you don-¦t get the "log in gift" would be totaly fine with me.
Lan Wang Knights of the Posing Meat FETID 2748	Posted - 2016.04.22 08:00:44 - [1992] - Quote Raging Bull Unchained wrote: I feel like i just upgraded my account from trial to full at the right time. This 10k skillpoints will come in very helpfully right now (@ ~900k skillpoints). I wouldnt feel bad if there-¦s an limit like 5 or 10m skillpoints. Higher then that and you don-¦t get the "log in gift" would be totaly fine with me. thats sorta giving the middle finger to your loyal players FETID now recruiting pvp pilots & corporations \| lowsec pvp & piracy - Join FETID Loyalist to Angel Cartel & Serpentis
Raging Bull Unchained Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 20	Posted - 2016.04.22 08:05:00 - [1993] - Quote Why that? giving me 10k sp wont affect you. And maybe it-¦s done to have more people logging in daily - if some stay online to play the game then it-¦s a good thing for everyone (i read an article about it (cant find it again right now :S)). Eve had once like almost 60k players logged in on the daily peek. now its like half of that.
Axhind Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation 186	Posted - 2016.04.22 08:11:31 - [1994] - Quote Raging Bull Unchained wrote: Why that? giving me 10k sp wont affect you. And maybe it-¦s done to have more people logging in daily - if some stay online to play the game then it-¦s a good thing for everyone (i read an article about it (cant find it again right now :S)). Eve had once like almost 60k players logged in on the daily peek. now its like half of that. At best. What they could implement is SP rewards for doing different parts of the New Player Experience (NPE). That would still be bad design as it trains the new players to expect huge rewards for every little step but it would be infinitely better than the every 22 hours grind that they are putting in now. Sadly this is probably just a sign that CCP is in financial trouble and needs to inflate their numbers while leadership is stuck in the small gang pvp (or rather ganks) is what eve should be about. Effect is that they are doing their best to ruin everything that is unique about this game and turn it into yet another failed MMO by copying all the worst practices from the industry full of bad practices and very low on successful games that are actually making money.
Raging Bull Unchained Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 20	Posted - 2016.04.22 08:16:58 - [1995] - Quote EvE is what... about 13 Years old? Another failed MMO feels not realy fitting well. Also it-¦s not quite showing trouble. People could still be sending Money to CCP while not logging in for longer periods. (not saying it's not true... just must be (doesnt have to be? gnah, foreign languages) no link between those 2).
Lance a'Lot Socially Challenged 0	Posted - 2016.04.22 08:57:35 - [1996] - Quote Axhind wrote: Lance a'Lot wrote: I like it. I see a lot of doomsday prophets complaining about the token reward of 10k SP. I really don't see a problem with this, any more than with implants or boosters. Isn't that basically the same thing, SP out of "nowhere"? If the recurring opportunity isn't for you, just don't do it. Just like any other game content. Boosters are just bad and main feature of them is that they are a money grab by CCP. So we hate CCP for wanting to make money. Check. Axhind wrote: Implants and remaps reward you for long term thinking and planning which is the whole point of eve. Daily grind is exactly the opposite of that. It rewards robotic behaviour which is not appreciated by the people with more than zero brain cells. There are plenty of grindy games out there and barely any of them are making real money. So maybe the daily opportunity isn't about making money? We still hate CCP for even suggesting it. Check. The "grind" you are describing consists of logging on once a day, undocking and killing a rat. It is also completely optional. Axhind wrote: EVE can't afford to get rid of everyone that has a job and/or family. Changing the game to fit 13y.o. kids is hardly going to bring in the money that CCP is hoping for. That crowd plays F2P games for free as disposable income of kids is pretty terrible compared to adults. Are you going to stop playing the game over this? Really? Axhind wrote: However, adults usually don't have time to game every day for extended periods of time and being forced to do so will drive them away. Extended periods of time? Again: Really? Either way, who is holding the gun to your head and forcing you to do it?
Ria Nieyli 44001	Posted - 2016.04.22 09:00:46 - [1997] - Quote It's not an optional grind. Having that extra 10k sp every day will become the new norm. If you can't log in on any given day, you're missing out. "slang" is shortened language for "shortened language"
S3M 0ne True Cave Inver Brass 0	Posted - 2016.04.22 11:08:36 - [1998] - Quote I feel like I have to put my word in here as well. Dailies are horrible. I've seen them in many games and people hated it. It's always like you don't have to do them but the whole point of implementing them in game (which CCP confirmed in their posts here) is to force players to login every period of time (in this case 22h). The whole SP system in this game is one of the best thing that was implemented in EVE. A lot of people including me had a long break from this game yet their still kept subscription up to no fall behind their friends. It wouldn't happen now when you will put daily opportunities because I would feel that I still miss a big chunk of SP so why bother. On top of that if you want to boost your logins make sure that people have something to do in game. I quite often "play eve" without going online. I sit with my corp on ts but I don't feel like grinding isk or don't have enough time/people to go PVP. Player housing, mini events, mini games etc. Those are the things that keep players in game. You can reward them with interesting skins to give them reason to play. There is really no good way to implement dailies. They are the worst type of content designed to force people to play the game against their will. We are still paying for it upfront for every month so you get your share. If EVE is not entertaining enough for me to login more the way to fix it is not to whip me to play it more rather give me other reason to sit in game than spinning my ship on station. BTW Remove those stupid adverts that I can hear even on desktop from captains quarters.
FT Diomedes The Graduates 2526	Posted - 2016.04.22 11:12:07 - [1999] - Quote Worf McGregor wrote: Wow, 100 pages and counting, it is really interesting that there has been this much to be said about this topic of "Daily Opportunities coming soon". As stated, it is coming whether you want it or not. I am impressed if CCP even reads all of this. It looks like there were only a few that liked it or was ok with it. But, I was impressed that about a third of the comments had the facts wrong that CCP put out on the very first message. CCP said, "The version of the feature we are planning to deploy first will be a simple 10,000 skill point reward that a character will receive the first time they kill an NPC ship every 22 hours (limited one character per account per day, chosen based on which character completes the task first). " So just the first character (of possibly 3) on a account that does the required action (Which, so far, is to kill a NPC) gets 10,000SP. Even if that action was done in the course of doing that character's normal routine. I.E. As a mining character, I go out to a belt and start mining. A rat (NPC) comes along, I deploy Drones, Blap, the rat is killed. I get 10,000SP {AND} the bounty on the rat in ISK. If I close the character down and start up the 2nd and later the 3rd character on that same account, in that same 22 hour period. Even if they kill a rat (NPC), they get nothing, but the bounty. Personally, I see nothing wrong with this idea. I'll take the skill points. And because the 2nd and 3rd characters don't have anything being trained, I would start one of them up first, go kill the rat (or whatever other option CCP gives us) for the SP to assist that character's skill training. So that the first character that is utilizing the skill que can keep on training, but both characters can advance. So yes, I would then log on with one of my other character(s) each and every day, a character that I would probably not even play (and have not even thought about). Then re-log back on with my main character and do my normal routine for the day. So I say to all the negative commenting people, if you don't want to, then don't. You don't loose anything by not doing it, like the original 24 hour Skill Que. You just don't get the benefit if you don't. Does anyone really need to say more? They changed their original proposal about thirty pages in... CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.
Shakira Akira Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 23	Posted - 2016.04.22 13:19:31 - [2000] - Quote Someone above mentioned something about skins. What if instead of SP, the dailies rewarded Skins? Set it so that depending on the size of rat that you kill, you get that sized skin.. Heck, they could even set it up so that you get the skin of the type of rat that you kill. Kill a Serpentis frigate, get a serpentis skin. SInce people enjoy having skins, they will log in. But a the same time you're not causing the feel of a grind in people. As mentioned many times before, thinking and planning ahead is what made Eve a great game. Adding in more ways to get instant SP (injectors are sadly here to stay) is just a bad idea that takes away that very important aspect that drew people to the game.
Axhind Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation 198	Posted - 2016.04.22 15:07:13 - [2001] - Quote Lance a'Lot wrote: Boosters are just bad and main feature of them is that they are a money grab by CCP. So maybe the daily opportunity isn't about making money? We still hate CCP for even suggesting it. Check. The "grind" you are describing consists of logging on once a day, undocking and killing a rat. It is also completely optional. Are you going to stop playing the game over this? Really? Extended periods of time? Again: Really? Either way, who is holding the gun to your head and forcing you to do it? No, we might hate CCP for wasting money we give them each month for each account on F2P disasters, phone apps that don't do anything useful and so on. Issue here is that we are already paying each month and that means they have a steady income and don't need to nickel and dime us to death as is common in F2P games. The rest has been answered many times. In short, it's a psychological trick and is used because it misuses the way human brains work. That means that even people who are aware of it and have tons of SP will be bothered by it somewhere in the back of their mind. If it wasn't like that CCP would not implement it. Considering that there are copious amounts of evidence that dailies are seen as forced and that they burn out players it's amazing that CCP insist on it but hey, it's their game and they are free to ruin it even if I would prefer for EVE to stick around another few decades. Finally, when you grow up you will realise that there are things like jobs, business trips, vacations and so on that take away time from playing. Part of growing up is that you get to juggle your time and prioritise. Strangely enough nobody seems to prioritise non-essential forced grind of the dailies type.
Mister Ripley Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde 219	Posted - 2016.04.22 18:58:00 - [2002] - Quote Axhind wrote: No, we might hate CCP for wasting money we give them each month for each account on F2P disasters, phone apps that don't do anything useful and so on. Issue here is that we are already paying each month and that means they have a steady income and don't need to nickel and dime us to death as is common in F2P games. I think you missed the part where we - paying customers - are also obliged to provide content to the sandbox. We pay to have the daily opportunity to generate content! We wouldn't have that if we unsub, so be glad they give us this unique feature.
Axhind Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation 205	Posted - 2016.04.22 19:26:40 - [2003] - Quote Mister Ripley wrote: Axhind wrote: No, we might hate CCP for wasting money we give them each month for each account on F2P disasters, phone apps that don't do anything useful and so on. Issue here is that we are already paying each month and that means they have a steady income and don't need to nickel and dime us to death as is common in F2P games. I think you missed the part where we - paying customers - are also obliged to provide content to the sandbox. We pay to have the daily opportunity to generate content! We wouldn't have that if we unsub, so be glad they give us this unique feature. Why yo make me upvote PH dude??? Have you no shame :D Yea CCP is really acting like it's a privilege for us to be allowed to pay them. That's quite amazing level of arrogance considering how well their other game projects have been doing not to mention EVE. Although EVE got a decent uptick thanks to IWI guys financing the war.
Indahmawar Fazmarai 5090	Posted - 2016.04.22 20:39:07 - [2004] - Quote Houm... It all boils down to this: should login in or not login in have consequences? With the unlimited skill queue CCP removed some consequences for players who did not login in. That in turn had consequences for CCP. Now they are putting the consequences back on players' side. The difference is that SP missed with empty queues could not be replaced and yet now anyone who like really really thinks he's laggin behind because the doesn't logs in daily can buy any SP he feels comfortable with. Didn't log in for a month? Spend 615 million ISK and you'll be back on your feet. Or maybe not login in should not have any consequences for players and CCP be damned if they don't like how's the PCU doing. Which certainly they deserve, seeing how they split their attention between PvPrs and the PvE fools paying the show.
marlinspike von Crendraven EVE University Ivy League 24	Posted - 2016.04.22 21:38:13 - [2005] - Quote i like this idea my only thing is that instead of having a twenty four hour cool down why not have it reset after each daily down time
Indahmawar Fazmarai 5090	Posted - 2016.04.22 22:29:58 - [2006] - Quote marlinspike von Crendraven wrote: i like this idea my only thing is that instead of having a twenty four hour cool down why not have it reset after each daily down time That can't be done, else people would log in just for 5 minutes after the end of DT and that would defeat the purpose of the dailies.
Ria Nieyli 44161	Posted - 2016.04.22 22:39:45 - [2007] - Quote But logging in just for 5 minutes IS the purpose of the dailies. According to CCP, at least. "slang" is shortened language for "shortened language"
Khan Wrenth Ore Oppression Prevention and Salvation 574	Posted - 2016.04.23 00:46:21 - [2008] - Quote Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote: Houm... It all boils down to this: should login in or not login in have consequences? With the unlimited skill queue CCP removed some consequences for players who did not login in. That in turn had consequences for CCP. Now they are putting the consequences back on players' side. The difference is that SP missed with empty queues could not be replaced and yet now anyone who like really really thinks he's laggin behind because the doesn't logs in daily can buy any SP he feels comfortable with. Didn't log in for a month? Spend 615 million ISK and you'll be back on your feet. Or maybe not login in should not have any consequences for players and CCP be damned if they don't like how's the PCU doing. Which certainly they deserve, seeing how they split their attention between PvPrs and the PvE fools paying the show. I know there's already 100 pages to this thread, but this has been thoroughly debunked by Tippia already. The 24 skill queue did not force daily logins, or even weekly logins for that matter. Other than day-1 characters, people were always training skills that took more than 24 hours to complete anyway. Even rank-1 skills at level 5 take 4-5 days to complete. And if you looked at the timeframe and realized you wouldn't be around to update the skillqueue that day, you could always put in an even longer skill to fill in the time before you got back and resumed your shorter skill. So, the idea that sklllqueue has anything to do with this is pure bunk. A lot of people from a lot of backgrounds asked for unlimited queue, but I think what won over CCP was the extra money they could make from it. See, a lot of the people asking for it were people that had to take extended time away from EvE due to their employment. Some traveled a lot for their jobs. Some were military. That meant that they couldn't update their queue for months at a time, but they wanted to keep their character active to level up. With the limited queue, they had to unsub for that time, and that loses CCP money. Let's discuss overhauling the way we get intel in EvE.
Alexis Askiras Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State 0	Posted - 2016.04.23 00:48:30 - [2009] - Quote I know a lot of people are upset that this seems like it's adding an XP grind to the game, but if you don't like it then just don't do it. CCP isn't forcing anyone to go out and kill an NPC. They are giving an incentive to. Nothing about the rest of the SP system is changing. You will still train your skills just like normal, but if you CHOOSE to you have the option of getting some extra SP by killing an NPC once per day. Nothing to get butt hurt about.
Axhind Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation 205	Posted - 2016.04.23 02:07:52 - [2010] - Quote Alexis Askiras wrote: I know a lot of people are upset that this seems like it's adding an XP grind to the game, but if you don't like it then just don't do it. CCP isn't forcing anyone to go out and kill an NPC. They are giving an incentive to. Nothing about the rest of the SP system is changing. You will still train your skills just like normal, but if you CHOOSE to you have the option of getting some extra SP by killing an NPC once per day. Nothing to get butt hurt about. How many times do we have to explain that it's a psychological trick that is used exactly because human brains sees them as "must do". Not to mention that with devaluation of SP and the move away from training is the only way to get SP it means that we are no longer paying to progress in game but only for access to the servers. So people that are taking a break will feel a lot less motivated to pay as they will be losing out (dailies) and value of SP is devalued. That means when they come back there will be a higher barrier to entry as they have to resub instead of coming back to an improved char that most of us look forward to (yes even those of us who are over 10 years in EVE). What CCP is doing is a short term boost to numbers before there is an accelerated loss due to burn-out and other terrible game decisions that CCP has been doing as of late (mainly promoting the small gang PvP (more like ganks)). Look for example at the latest trailer. It shows off a big fight despite insistence by CCP that EVE should all be about small gang pvp. Then it ends with "build your dreams" but is missing the "so that intelligent people staging in perfectly safe and functional NPC stations can kill your stuff". So the art department understands much more what attracts players to eve than the actual game developers.
Pryce Caesar Evil Young Flesh 67	Posted - 2016.04.23 04:48:42 - [2011] - Quote It's no "psychological trick". I do not care how old you are, or how long you have been playing EVE Online; adding the Dailies will by no means detracts from the already existing Training Queue. At the end of the day, the extra SP provided by the Daily Opportunities is, in a word, inconsequential. It's merely a small SP boost; normal skill training still delivers far more SP in a single month than if you were to be online every day just for the Dailies. As a result, any skills you want trained will be more likely trained by the Training Queue more readily than by the Daily Opportunities. For anyone who is interested in the dailies, my advice is just to save them up. Use them when you want to speed up training for the high-multiplier skills. There's no point in using them piece-meal for any skill that takes under a month to train. At best, you'll only shave off four to five days with the amount of SP you'd get per month.
Indahmawar Fazmarai 5090	Posted - 2016.04.23 07:04:16 - [2012] - Quote Khan Wrenth wrote: Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote: Houm... It all boils down to this: should login in or not login in have consequences? With the unlimited skill queue CCP removed some consequences for players who did not login in. That in turn had consequences for CCP. Now they are putting the consequences back on players' side. The difference is that SP missed with empty queues could not be replaced and yet now anyone who like really really thinks he's laggin behind because the doesn't logs in daily can buy any SP he feels comfortable with. Didn't log in for a month? Spend 615 million ISK and you'll be back on your feet. Or maybe not login in should not have any consequences for players and CCP be damned if they don't like how's the PCU doing. Which certainly they deserve, seeing how they split their attention between PvPrs and the PvE fools paying the show. I know there's already 100 pages to this thread, but this has been thoroughly debunked by Tippia already. The 24 skill queue did not force daily logins, or even weekly logins for that matter. Other than day-1 characters, people were always training skills that took more than 24 hours to complete anyway. Even rank-1 skills at level 5 take 4-5 days to complete. And if you looked at the timeframe and realized you wouldn't be around to update the skillqueue that day, you could always put in an even longer skill to fill in the time before you got back and resumed your shorter skill. So, the idea that sklllqueue has anything to do with this is pure bunk. A lot of people from a lot of backgrounds asked for unlimited queue, but I think what won over CCP was the extra money they could make from it. See, a lot of the people asking for it were people that had to take extended time away from EvE due to their employment. Some traveled a lot for their jobs. Some were military. That meant that they couldn't update their queue for months at a time, but they wanted to keep their character active to level up. With the limited queue, they had to unsub for that time, and that loses CCP money. So CCP Rise is a fool, or a liar: Quote: Why Dailies? So first lets talk a little history. EVE had a daily logon incentive for most of it's existence: the 24 hour skill queue limit. Back in Phoebe, we removed those limitations. Now, at the time, we were of two minds internally. We didn't like the experience around being punished for not logging in to update your queue, but also knew that some of those logins might be leading to meaningful gameplay and we shouldn't lightly let go of them. We leaned to the side of a better experience and removed the limitations, hoping that the logins we were generating were fairly empty, rarely leading to more actual activity in the universe. Well, it turns out we were wrong about that. Now, with before and after data we can see that making it into the client is a huge step towards real activity, even if the reason for logging in in the first place seems artificial. So this leads us to where we are now, attempting to find ways to create more logins that also don't feel like such a punishment as the skill queue limitations did. This may not turn out to be the perfect alternative but that's what we're looking for. Frankly, I'll bet on CCP rather than Tippia with this one.
Ria Nieyli 44241	Posted - 2016.04.23 07:49:36 - [2013] - Quote Alexis Askiras wrote: I know a lot of people are upset that this seems like it's adding an XP grind to the game, but if you don't like it then just don't do it. CCP isn't forcing anyone to go out and kill an NPC. They are giving an incentive to. Nothing about the rest of the SP system is changing. You will still train your skills just like normal, but if you CHOOSE to you have the option of getting some extra SP by killing an NPC once per day. Nothing to get butt hurt about. Nobody chooses to train slower. If it's so much of a free choice, let's bring back training skills too. Pryce Caesar wrote: It's no "psychological trick". I do not care how old you are, or how long you have been playing EVE Online; adding the Dailies will by no means detracts from the already existing Training Queue. At the end of the day, the extra SP provided by the Daily Opportunities is, in a word, inconsequential. It's merely a small SP boost; normal skill training still delivers far more SP in a single month than if you were to be online every day just for the Dailies. As a result, any skills you want trained will be more likely trained by the Training Queue more readily than by the Daily Opportunities. For anyone who is interested in the dailies, my advice is just to save them up. Use them when you want to speed up training for the high-multiplier skills. There's no point in using them piece-meal for any skill that takes under a month to train. At best, you'll only shave off four to five days with the amount of SP you'd get per month. It doesn't detract from the queue, it enhances it. If you have a perfect remap and +5 implants, it's a 17% increase in training speed. It will be the new norm. That's why people are staunchly against it. This game was supposed to be downtime friendly. People can't log in every day, and a feature like this punishes them for not doing is, going against a core tenet of the game. "slang" is shortened language for "shortened language"
Vabanaz Arjar Damned Nebula Privateers 38	Posted - 2016.04.23 08:12:14 - [2014] - Quote I would rather like to have the old skillqueue limitations back, also there wasnt a need to login daily back then since you were able to throw in a long Skill which lasts for weeks. Instead of throwing in just another poorly designed feauture to artifical increase PCU, CCP should maybe look more inside the real reasons people don't login anymore. who pulls the strings?
Anarkia Evangel Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 1	Posted - 2016.04.23 09:08:41 - [2015] - Quote How about something different, you get points you can put towards reducing jump fatigue, reducing time until you can jump clone, reducing time until you can change skill attributes. Even points towards standings with NPC corps and sec status? I like the idea of giving something to people who play the game every day. I donGÇÖt like the idea of using skills points, itGÇÖs too key to game progression and hurts people who donGÇÖt have time or are able to even login the game every day. The big selling point to Eve, even people I know who donGÇÖt play the game say they like that aspect of the game, over other MMORPG.
Ria Nieyli 44243	Posted - 2016.04.23 09:16:14 - [2016] - Quote Anarkia Evangel wrote: How about something different, you get points you can put towards reducing jump fatigue, reducing time until you can jump clone, reducing time until you can change skill attributes. Even points towards standings with NPC corps and sec status? I like the idea of giving something to people who play the game every day. I donGÇÖt like the idea of using skills points, itGÇÖs too key to game progression and hurts people who donGÇÖt have time or are able to even login the game every day. The big selling point to Eve, even people I know who donGÇÖt play the game say they like that aspect of the game, over other MMORPG. People playing every day already get something, be it ISK, loot, salvage, ore, killmails, etc. etc. etc. "slang" is shortened language for "shortened language"
Anarkia Evangel Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 1	Posted - 2016.04.23 09:36:08 - [2017] - Quote Ria Nieyli wrote: Anarkia Evangel wrote: How about something different, you get points you can put towards reducing jump fatigue, reducing time until you can jump clone, reducing time until you can change skill attributes. Even points towards standings with NPC corps and sec status? I like the idea of giving something to people who play the game every day. I donGÇÖt like the idea of using skills points, itGÇÖs too key to game progression and hurts people who donGÇÖt have time or are able to even login the game every day. The big selling point to Eve, even people I know who donGÇÖt play the game say they like that aspect of the game, over other MMORPG. People playing every day already get something, be it ISK, loot, salvage, ore, killmails, etc. etc. etc. There's zero need for an artificial motivator. True, but i'm looking to give CCP other options than giving away skill points, if they are going to do it anyway, lets think out of the box.
Ria Nieyli 44246	Posted - 2016.04.23 09:39:25 - [2018] - Quote That's not thinking outside of the box. Thinking outside of the box right now would be scrapping the entire feature. "slang" is shortened language for "shortened language"
FT Diomedes The Graduates 2528	Posted - 2016.04.23 11:40:56 - [2019] - Quote Anarkia Evangel wrote: How about something different, you get points you can put towards reducing jump fatigue, reducing time until you can jump clone, reducing time until you can change skill attributes. Even points towards standings with NPC corps and sec status? I like the idea of giving something to people who play the game every day. I donGÇÖt like the idea of using skills points, itGÇÖs too key to game progression and hurts people who donGÇÖt have time or are able to even login the game every day. The big selling point to Eve, even people I know who donGÇÖt play the game say they like that aspect of the game, over other MMORPG. Anti-Jump Fatigue Powder would be one thing that would be worth logging in for, but not a mandatory item (like SP). That would make it a good item to offer as a bonus. CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.
Shakira Akira Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 24	Posted - 2016.04.23 12:25:21 - [2020] - Quote FT Diomedes wrote: Anarkia Evangel wrote: How about something different, you get points you can put towards reducing jump fatigue, reducing time until you can jump clone, reducing time until you can change skill attributes. Even points towards standings with NPC corps and sec status? I like the idea of giving something to people who play the game every day. I donGÇÖt like the idea of using skills points, itGÇÖs too key to game progression and hurts people who donGÇÖt have time or are able to even login the game every day. The big selling point to Eve, even people I know who donGÇÖt play the game say they like that aspect of the game, over other MMORPG. Anti-Jump Fatigue Powder would be one thing that would be worth logging in for, but not a mandatory item (like SP). That would make it a good item to offer as a bonus. ^^^ That. They could just make another BP that would create the "reduce Jump fatigue" pill. You daily bonus gives you material needed to make the pill that way it's not going to be too numerous but people will want to get it IOT sell and or have themselves.
Khan Wrenth Ore Oppression Prevention and Salvation 577	Posted - 2016.04.23 17:25:39 - [2021] - Quote Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote: So CCP Rise is a fool, or a liar: Frankly, I'll bet on CCP rather than Tippia with this one. Actually, neither. The world does not exist in a simple black-or-white dichotomy. As an employee of CCP, he was assigned the task of introducing a change. It doesn't need to be more complicated than that and there is certainly no reason to throw any sort of judgement in the direction of Rise. Let's discuss overhauling the way we get intel in EvE.
Anarkia Evangel Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 2	Posted - 2016.04.23 17:29:26 - [2022] - Quote Shakira Akira wrote: FT Diomedes wrote: Anarkia Evangel wrote: How about something different, you get points you can put towards reducing jump fatigue, reducing time until you can jump clone, reducing time until you can change skill attributes. Even points towards standings with NPC corps and sec status? I like the idea of giving something to people who play the game every day. I donGÇÖt like the idea of using skills points, itGÇÖs too key to game progression and hurts people who donGÇÖt have time or are able to even login the game every day. The big selling point to Eve, even people I know who donGÇÖt play the game say they like that aspect of the game, over other MMORPG. Anti-Jump Fatigue Powder would be one thing that would be worth logging in for, but not a mandatory item (like SP). That would make it a good item to offer as a bonus. ^^^ That. They could just make another BP that would create the "reduce Jump fatigue" pill. You daily bonus gives you material needed to make the pill that way it's not going to be too numerous but people will want to get it IOT sell and or have themselves. I don't think it should be difficult to access, having to get materials for a pill will put people off. Making it a commodity gives the rich an advantage and removes the need to log in if you can just buy it.
Victor Peredelkin TerraFons CyberSphere 0	Posted - 2016.04.23 20:39:57 - [2023] - Quote Daily??? What?! are you seriouse? what the simplification? it is not for Eve! if you introduce this nonsense, i will stop subscribing and paying. put people in unequal conditions. adult busy people want to come only when he needs to be and at the same time on an equal footing with the other players.
Wimzy Chent-Shi Unkindness Incorporated Who Dares Wins. 52	Posted - 2016.04.23 20:54:56 - [2024] - Quote I would vote for "pooling" of the potential reward up to a cap be it a month or a week. I don't want a forced habbit of what the word daily implies. If you enforce "competitiveness" through daily play it is going to ring up disgust. I am a one acc player atm so it comes down to flying to an asteroid field two shotting something there and warping back again. Unless the whole content addition is supposed to resolve around 50 wardeccers or randoms waiting for me to undock to do that so that hey can kill me I fail to see the added value. Imagine the fun people with multiple accounts get to have by catching up to the daily meta whilst they could enjoy an actual content of their own choice out there. Make a newbro foundation started @ here Let us help those newbros that can not PLEX themselves.
Sitting Bull Lakota Careless Bears LLC 63	Posted - 2016.04.24 02:50:00 - [2025] - Quote "One more shovelfull. The bottom's getting deeper. The walls are getting steeper." The Hole -Anonymous. If you guys are deadset on "grind4sp," then at least make it engaging and *give this reward some risk!* The SP must be per rat. The ammount must be such that a days grind will net no more than 60k sp with most dedicated solo ratters managing around 10k sp or so. The difference in theoretical max and average will be guaranteed because: The rats *ABSOLUTELY MUST* spawn only in belts in systems within 1 jump of a lowsec to nullsec gate. No reward as high as Free Skillpoints should be achievable without taking a swim in the sharktank. These ships must require at least a well flown t2 fit cruiser to kill. And, these rats are shifty, you need to point them so they won't leave. Gangs and big solo ships could chew through them with ease, but timid wcs'd frigs and dessies would die in a fire. The thing CCP needs to encourage isn't "logging in." CCP should be encouraging gang roams in dangerous, high traffic space.
Axhind Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation 210	Posted - 2016.04.24 07:35:45 - [2026] - Quote Sitting Bull Lakota wrote: "One more shovelfull. The bottom's getting deeper. The walls are getting steeper." The Hole -Anonymous. If you guys are deadset on "grind4sp," then at least make it engaging and *give this reward some risk!* The SP must be per rat. The ammount must be such that a days grind will net no more than 60k sp with most dedicated solo ratters managing around 10k sp or so. The difference in theoretical max and average will be guaranteed because: The rats *ABSOLUTELY MUST* spawn only in belts in systems within 1 jump of a lowsec to nullsec gate. No reward as high as Free Skillpoints should be achievable without taking a swim in the sharktank. These ships must require at least a well flown t2 fit cruiser to kill. And, these rats are shifty, you need to point them so they won't leave. Gangs and big solo ships could chew through them with ease, but timid wcs'd frigs and dessies would die in a fire. The thing CCP needs to encourage isn't "logging in." CCP should be encouraging gang roams in dangerous, high traffic space. Let me guess. You play in low sec and would love to camp the gates leading to the fancy rats. Amount of self serving proposals is really amazing. Goal here is not to push one player style but to improve the game and nobody has yet found a way to implement dailies in a way that did not crash the numbers in the long run. There are tons of games that do it (most F2P but not all) and in every single case the result is the same, increase in the beginning and then drop under the baseline in the longer term as it burns out people and they stop playing your ****** grind game.
marVLs 715	Posted - 2016.04.24 08:17:20 - [2027] - Quote The only dailys i see are: - splitted into lets say 3 types: pvp , indu/mining, exploration/missions. Each one new every day like: - pvp: +5% web range - indu/mining: -10% mining lasers cycle - exploration/missions: +10% agent payment Possibilities are huge and awesome, You can add a lot of cool bonuses like: 1) pvp: - here everyone can think about ton of cool bonuses 2) indu/mining: - rock amount bonus - industrial ships +10% cargohold - bonus for production like +5% speed - bonus for fraighters allign time - bonus for mining barges hp or damage etc 3) exploration/missions: - scan probes strength bonus - +10% chance for drop - +5% npc bounty - better salvage for missions - bonus for salvage drones or tractor beams - more DEDs all over space in that day - lvl5 missions in HS - -25% hp of npcs in lvl5 missions in LS etc This will encourage players for more different activities with differ ships and fits And there should be also some epic dailys with very low chance to appear (like 1% or less if theres more of that type in group) but with some huge boosts to shake new eden Imagine Daily Bonus with huuge boosts that can appear one every 2-3 months something like -90% allign time for fraighters (or +100% hp) lol or -80% for missiles explosion radius and velocity or +100% for MWD speed And also there should be joker dailys like -50% for every ship HP Bring eve more fun
Ria Nieyli 44389	Posted - 2016.04.24 09:16:43 - [2028] - Quote That's a list of ideas that are so horrible that I don't even know where to start. "slang" is shortened language for "shortened language"
Lavayar Russian SOBR Dream Fleet 274	Posted - 2016.04.24 12:51:04 - [2029] - Quote Ria Nieyli wrote: That's a list of ideas that are so horrible that I don't even know where to start. "Go back to WoW" will fit.
Sabriz Adoudel Move along there is nothing here 5789	Posted - 2016.04.24 13:55:38 - [2030] - Quote One of the hardest things for a designer to do is admit when they are wrong, and shoot one of their pet projects. Time will tell if CCP are capable of doing this here, before this idea damages the game. One consequence I haven't seen brought up here is that this is a major incentive to not fight back if you are being hellcamped in a station in null. Don't undock - just clonejump out and farm your SP somewhere else. Then, when there's a call for a fleet op to try to break out, you are in the wrong place to participate. But the obvious worst effect is that any time real life gets in the way of playing - a business trip, a family holiday, sustained internet disconnection or whatever, you start falling behind other players. This could be a good system that drives content if it awards pretty much anything other than SP. A doubling of your biggest bounty tick for the day would achieve the goal of having more people risking assets in space to rat, without all of the obvious faults this system has. I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com Sabriz's Rule: "Any time someone argues for a game change claiming it is a quality of life change, the change is actually a game balance change".
Gully Alex Foyle Black Fox Marauders 4373	Posted - 2016.04.24 15:16:01 - [2031] - Quote PSA because while on SiSi I was about to bang my head on my monitor. Remember you can at least HIDE the on-screen 'Recurring Opportunites' infographic by clicking on the last small little icon on the right, at the very top left of your screen. Phew, I was afraid this bad idea would haunt my screen forever! Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
Terranid Meester Tactical Assault and Recon Unit 380	Posted - 2016.04.24 18:58:41 - [2032] - Quote Shallanna Yassavi wrote: A not insignificant number of SP was the only "carrot" they thought they could dangle in front of us which we would actually go after. God forbid if the actual gameplay and grain of eve as is was the actual reason for people to log-in, but maybe CCP cares more for the Valkyries and Project Nova's than it does for eve these days. Not that people should be obliged to log-in anyway. FT Diomedes wrote: They changed their original proposal about thirty pages in... Still bad, nothing good can come from it.
Tiddle Jr Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 842	Posted - 2016.04.25 07:52:31 - [2033] - Quote i kill an NPC rat and got 10k of SP? Maaan what are you smokin? for real!
Landon Elongur EVE University Ivy League 1	Posted - 2016.04.25 17:00:13 - [2034] - Quote I strongly dislike this idea. I joined Eve because it was an MMO where when my life became busy I could walk away and my character would keep learning at the same rate as other players. And that the game was set up so that there wasn't a requirement for grinding. Now you are adding an incentive that required me to login in daily and perform a specific activity to keep up. I don't mind the skill injectors... if someone wants to sink enough time/effort or real money into the game, then that is up to them. My other concern is that you are changing the new player experience. You are making it so that new player will feel obligated to log in daily, so they can speed up their skill point acquisition. Since for new player, 10,000K is a lot of sill points. This is adding a grinding aspect the the game. I just don't understand why you want to change the culture of the game so much.
Drummin Zerglin AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse 5	Posted - 2016.04.25 20:03:09 - [2035] - Quote Another layer of grinding A new player gaining SP from opportunities = More new player progression if done right. Anyone else gaining SP from opportunities = Silly grinding. Currently 10k SP = 8m isk, or 300k SP, 240m a month. Should have an SP drop-off of 5m SP - you can't extract SP below 5.5m SP. SP below 5m has no value to anyone but the character. No silly grinding. No SP faucet. Separate overview windows.
Manic Velocity Emergent Dynamics 190	Posted - 2016.04.25 20:27:24 - [2036] - Quote Since I'm pretty convinced CCP is going to implement this despite the negative feedback, I have to vehemently request that it be made opt-out. Not just opt-out while it's in beta/testing phase, but opt-out in its entirety. I want to be able to opt-out of ever receiving any kind of reward for doing any kind of "daily opportunity". Because I don't want any internal metrics to indicate that I somehow endorse this mechanic, simply because I killed a belt rat on a whim and inadvertently received some SP. Because I know that once this hits TQ, there will be a notable increase in NPC kills. And CCP will take that to mean that people love doing dailies, and so they will divert their limited development resources accordingly. The emergent gameplay of the sandbox will suffer as CCP shifts focus on more ways to encourage players to grind for SP. Save the themepark nonsense for Nova, or even Valkyrie, where it would make more sense. *I will gladly take the hit in SP if it means I can have a way of showing CCP definitively* that I do not want dailies affecting the sandbox.** @manicvelocity
Tiddle Jr Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 846	Posted - 2016.04.25 20:59:45 - [2037] - Quote Landon Elongur wrote: I strongly dislike this idea. I joined Eve because it was an MMO where when my life became busy I could walk away and my character would keep learning at the same rate as other players. And that the game was set up so that there wasn't a requirement for grinding. Now you are adding an incentive that required me to login in daily and perform a specific activity to keep up. I don't mind the skill injectors... if someone wants to sink enough time/effort or real money into the game, then that is up to them. My other concern is that you are changing the new player experience. You are making it so that new player will feel obligated to log in daily, so they can speed up their skill point acquisition. Since for new player, 10,000K is a lot of sill points. This is adding a grinding aspect the the game. I just don't understand why you want to change the culture of the game so much. I do preditct new burner missions with SP in form of award. Cool story bro. Kill for Skill!
NovaCat13 Seymourus and Co. 185	Posted - 2016.04.25 22:19:31 - [2038] - Quote Manic Velocity wrote: Since I'm pretty convinced CCP is going to implement this despite the negative feedback, I have to vehemently request that it be made opt-out. Not just opt-out while it's in beta/testing phase, but opt-out in its entirety. I want to be able to opt-out of ever receiving any kind of reward for doing any kind of "daily opportunity". Because I don't want any internal metrics to indicate that I somehow endorse this mechanic, simply because I killed a belt rat on a whim and inadvertently received some SP. Because I know that once this hits TQ, there will be a notable increase in NPC kills. And CCP will take that to mean that people love doing dailies, and so they will divert their limited development resources accordingly. The emergent gameplay of the sandbox will suffer as CCP shifts focus on more ways to encourage players to grind for SP. Save the themepark nonsense for Nova, or even Valkyrie, where it would make more sense. *I will gladly take the hit in SP if it means I can have a way of showing CCP definitively* that I do not want dailies affecting the sandbox. Not empty quoting NovaCat13 wrote: Quote: Daily Opportunities When you log into EVE, you will be often greeted by a vibrant universe full of interesting things that draws you in. In the past the 24 hour skill queue was a subtle incentive to log often into EVE, now we are considering a difference encouragement: a skillpoint reward for logging in. CCP Rise brings further details and explanations, please read them first before providing some feedback. The reward will be also limited to the first character completing the daily task on each account. Worries about the nature of the EVE sandbox might naturally arise, but the development history, especially the increase of freedom and power to players with the Citadel expansion and previous releases, should speak a clear enough language. Still not convinced https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ER9vJy5PiCc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPwkG2KEBjc Quote: ItGÇÖs very important to note here that this means all the skillpoints available to buy on the market in EVE will have originated on other characters where they were trained at the normal rate. Player driven economies are key to EVE design and we want you to decide the value of traded skillpoints while we make sure there is one single mechanism that brings new skillpoints in to the system GÇô training**. Just say NO to Dailies
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 2786	Posted - 2016.04.26 14:47:24 - [2039] - Quote FT Diomedes wrote: Anarkia Evangel wrote: How about something different, you get points you can put towards reducing jump fatigue, reducing time until you can jump clone, reducing time until you can change skill attributes. Even points towards standings with NPC corps and sec status? I like the idea of giving something to people who play the game every day. I donGÇÖt like the idea of using skills points, itGÇÖs too key to game progression and hurts people who donGÇÖt have time or are able to even login the game every day. The big selling point to Eve, even people I know who donGÇÖt play the game say they like that aspect of the game, over other MMORPG. Anti-Jump Fatigue Powder would be one thing that would be worth logging in for, but not a mandatory item (like SP). That would make it a good item to offer as a bonus. You seriously think there would not be people who find in mandatory to log-in every day for their daily line of powder? I'm pretty sure EVE has at least 1 sucker who would do it for 20k isk...
Lin Thuan Khanid Royal Institute of Technology 1	Posted - 2016.04.26 15:29:21 - [2040] - Quote You guys earn skill point everyday doing nothing... You don't want this reward for activity ? simple, go on do nothing ! Reward for activity is a great idea, we need this for every other activity, mining, building, etc... Thx CCP o7
Raven Dallacort School of Mabon Guardians of the Morrigan 0	Posted - 2016.04.26 18:08:09 - [2041] - Quote Inomares wrote: Anything I feel obliged to do on a daily basis whether I feel like doing it or not, I will end up hating. I quit WoW for this exact same reason. I didn't need the gold I got from logging in and updating my Garrison for 5 minutes/day, but the nagging feeling that I was missing out if I didn't was always there. In the end, it nagged me to the point where I quit the game over it. Don't start making me hate eve as well, please. The skill queue change is one of the best changes I've seen since I came back to the game. I did the exact same thing - WOW player for 9 years here and eventually just got bored of the grind on 3 top level (100 at the time) toons. EVE is more my style - I've always been more into science fiction but started on Warcraft back when it was WC2 and Orcs vs Humans, before the MMORPG revelation. Anyways, I think this change is a good thing - I can play around with the market and eventually buy my way into a skill injector for SP, but I log in every day already and there's always something I need to train up just a little better. I quit this game 3 years ago and came back recently, so the need for training is huge for me right now. On another note however, I'm also opening up the possibility of doing some light PVP and mission running - these things require completely different skill sets than daytrading the market, industry or mining, so the need for some SP is a good thing once again. The only downside I see to this is the price of injectors correcting to new levels. I'll estimate maybe 30% drop at least, so for day-traders like myself, this is not a good thing, but we'll get over it :) Anyways, love the game and welcome this change.
Reaver Glitterstim Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore 2928	Posted - 2016.04.26 23:38:20 - [2042] - Quote I feel this should require a much more significant amount of activity. Howabout a player receives a much smaller bonus for each unit of activity until enough have been added up to give the full reward? Example: 100 SP for killing a NPC frigate, 250 for killing a NPC cruiser, 500 for killing a NPC battleship, up to a max of 10,000 per day. This way it may take an hour or two to accomplish the full amount of activity but it is not unobtainable for those of us with limited play times. Giving 10,000 SP for a single NPC kill will have people logging in like on Neopets, spamming the quick daily and logging off. I would also look at increasing the amount of possible ways you can get your daily SP bonus: 1.) clearing a site or turning in a mission, more or less SP depending on the difficulty of the site/mission 2.) participating in player ship/capsule destruction (including illegal), giving more SP for a more expensive kill 3.) a small amount for setting up a market order or making instant purchases/sales, more when your market order goes through - this would be a small gain overall as it needs to be balanced by NPC tax so you can't just spam fake orders for free SP 4.) a small gain for losing a ship in PVP based on the estimated value of the hull - this will encourage player participation in PVP even when they have a high risk of losing their ship It would also make a lot of sense to scale these rewards by the player's character's current skillpoints, at least up to 10 million. With low amounts of SP it can be difficult to complete these activities effectively and quickly. Players with very low SP should not need to accomplish nearly as much to get the full reward. FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post." Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Lavayar Russian SOBR Dream Fleet 278	Posted - 2016.04.27 06:55:08 - [2043] - Quote Lin Thuan wrote: You guys earn skill point everyday doing nothing... You don't want this reward for activity ? simple, go on do nothing ! Reward for activity is a great idea, we need this for every other activity, mining, building, etc... Thx CCP o7 Not Sure If Trolling SneakyFry.jpg
Neadayan Drakhon Heuristic Industrial And Development AddictClan 153	Posted - 2016.04.27 08:56:05 - [2044] - Quote CCP Rise wrote: Another small update: Thanks to feedback we see that it would improve the experience quite a lot minimize the amount of characters available for this reward so we are going to limit the reward to the first character completing the daily task on each account. Thanks 15 days since the last Dev post. This is still only 2/3 of a proper response. Come on CCP, its not that hard to just drop this idea entirely. NO SP DAILIES IN EVE!
PAPULA Black Aces I N F A M O U S 99	Posted - 2016.04.27 10:09:47 - [2045] - Quote CCP Rise wrote: Another small update: Thanks to feedback we see that it would improve the experience quite a lot minimize the amount of characters available for this reward so we are going to limit the reward to the first character completing the daily task on each account. Thanks Why bother then ? Remove them or give 10k SP to each char. Otherwise it doesn't make any sense.
Makhar Independent Miners Guild Care Factor 17	Posted - 2016.04.27 11:10:19 - [2046] - Quote so basically i get 2 free injectors each month? _ I tried real-life once. -áThe graphics suck._
Lugh Crow-Slave 2320	Posted - 2016.04.27 11:11:52 - [2047] - Quote PAPULA wrote: CCP Rise wrote: Another small update: Thanks to feedback we see that it would improve the experience quite a lot minimize the amount of characters available for this reward so we are going to limit the reward to the first character completing the daily task on each account. Thanks Why bother then ? Remove them or give 10k SP to each char. Otherwise it doesn't make any sense. Yeah I never got that it seems like they were just looking for a pointless alteration that made it look like taking feedback :/ Citadel worm hole tax
Axhind Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation 225	Posted - 2016.04.27 12:30:26 - [2048] - Quote Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: PAPULA wrote: CCP Rise wrote: Another small update: Thanks to feedback we see that it would improve the experience quite a lot minimize the amount of characters available for this reward so we are going to limit the reward to the first character completing the daily task on each account. Thanks Why bother then ? Remove them or give 10k SP to each char. Otherwise it doesn't make any sense. Yeah I never got that it seems like they were just looking for a pointless alteration that made it look like taking feedback :/ Alternative would be to admit that they did something very wrong and that they should not do it. As we all know CCP admits wrong only when the shitstorm hits nuke iceland levels. Otherwise it's good old, we know best and if our players/customers don't like it then they are idiots.
PAPULA Black Aces I N F A M O U S 101	Posted - 2016.04.27 12:36:39 - [2049] - Quote I suggest this: 1. Give us 10k SP for killing any npc, on each character every 24 hours. 2. Abandon this idea and don't do it at all.
Ron Seer Phantom Squad The Blood Covenant 0	Posted - 2016.04.27 12:49:30 - [2050] - Quote I like the idea of activity reward, however this reward is to big for no efford. Several have suggested a much smaller reward (like 50 sp for a npc frigate kill, 100 for a cruiser, and maybe some mining/exploaration/PVP alternative) up to a maximum. sounds like a bettter idea. Also I would suggest make it a weekly bonus, since alot of players dont/wont/cant log in daily and gives people chance to get full bonus still. I have never liked the idea of a toon sitting 3 years in jita and then undocking as a perfect titan pilot. rewarding those to actually undock and play the game is good, I am just not sure this is the best solution.
PAPULA Black Aces I N F A M O U S 101	Posted - 2016.04.27 12:57:15 - [2051] - Quote Ron Seer wrote: I have never liked the idea of a toon sitting 3 years in jita and then undocking as a perfect titan pilot. Yea i am doing that right now, my alt is training skills, but i am not playing that toon, because i am waiting for perfect skills ... so for time being it's docked in school with skills on market. So if i get 10k SP for killing any npc every 24 hours I would undock that toon and go hunt for npc's.
Ria Nieyli 44748	Posted - 2016.04.27 12:57:39 - [2052] - Quote Ron Seer wrote: I like the idea of activity reward, however this reward is to big for no efford. Several have suggested a much smaller reward (like 50 sp for a npc frigate kill, 100 for a cruiser, and maybe some mining/exploaration/PVP alternative) up to a maximum. sounds like a bettter idea. Also I would suggest make it a weekly bonus, since alot of players dont/wont/cant log in daily and gives people chance to get full bonus still. I have never liked the idea of a toon sitting 3 years in jita and then undocking as a perfect titan pilot. rewarding those to actually undock and play the game is good, I am just not sure this is the best solution. But there are already rewards for undocking and doing stuff in space. PAPULA wrote: Yea i am doing that right now, my alt is training skills, but i am not playing that toon, because i am waiting for perfect skills ... so for time being it's docked in school with skills on market. That's your alt though. Did you do the same for your main when you were starting out? I suppose not. "slang" is shortened language for "shortened language"
Reaver Glitterstim Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore 2929	Posted - 2016.04.27 16:17:33 - [2053] - Quote Ria Nieyli wrote: But there are already rewards for undocking and doing stuff in space. A lot of folks seem to disagree. FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post." Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Ria Nieyli 44791	Posted - 2016.04.27 16:21:44 - [2054] - Quote Reaver Glitterstim wrote: Ria Nieyli wrote: But there are already rewards for undocking and doing stuff in space. A lot of folks seem to disagree. So are you telling me that ISK, LP, loot, killmails, etc. that you can gain from undocking don't exist? And that a 10,000 SP daily bonus is more meaningful than those things from a gameplay standpoint? "slang" is shortened language for "shortened language"
Egsise Art Of Explosions 404 Hole Not Found 3	Posted - 2016.04.27 17:06:17 - [2055] - Quote I think that 10k sp daily is good for new players. I couldn't care less of the daily grind to shorten my skillqueue from 500 days to 400 days. CCP: give us wormholers the free sp from probing a wormhole sig.
Reaver Glitterstim Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore 2929	Posted - 2016.04.27 17:14:44 - [2056] - Quote Ria Nieyli wrote: Reaver Glitterstim wrote: Ria Nieyli wrote: But there are already rewards for undocking and doing stuff in space. A lot of folks seem to disagree. So are you telling me that ISK, LP, loot, killmails, etc. that you can gain from undocking don't exist? I'm saying that one way or another, people sit in station when they could otherwise be undocked. FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post." Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Tesian Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2016.04.27 18:52:55 - [2057] - Quote Feedback as a new player (5.5 Million SP) is that this is great. This game is a sandbox. I kill rats - I explore WHs - I hack sites - I mine - I try new ships (that I can afford) - I get killed - I am starting PI/Industry - and I sit and watch my skill queue. I don't just want to PvP 24/7 - that is not my goal, but I will PvP when I want or when I'm attacked - you better believe I will try to defend myself. The skill queue is not interactive - it just sits there... I remapped once to make training faster. I used a skill injector when I was around 4.8 million SP - and that was great. I was able to train some skills that gave me a boost and let me try some new things. It was FUN. Compared to a veteran character who has 50-80 million SP, I'm pretty gimped. I can finally use Hobgoblin II just yesterday while most people I would try to fight are in fully tiered up Confessors... How do I catch up? Do I have to watch my skill queue for 7 years just to compete? Adding things to the game is good - nobody is forced to do these things. Everyone has their own play style. I watch a lot of streams, and just last night I was watching defiantdaniel on twitch (GENT). He basically does PvP all the time - just last night he was warping around looking for people to kill, and he jumped to an asteroid belt and killed some rats that aggressed him while he was looking for the next unsuspecting victim. He was not specifically trying to do it to gain SP; it just happened naturally during his normal course of game play... I really don't understand why someone would be against this "opportunity" feature at all. I wish there were more than just this one, so maybe I can fly some T3 frigs one day or fit T2 guns. You guys take it for granted, but this game is heavily time gated for new players.
Raging Bull Unchained Einheit X-6 177	Posted - 2016.04.27 19:25:29 - [2058] - Quote I thought it would allready come with Citadel - but it doesnt (it seems). Limit it for chars with < 10m sps and everything is fine.
Ria Nieyli 44800	Posted - 2016.04.27 19:28:23 - [2059] - Quote Reaver Glitterstim wrote: I'm saying that one way or another, people sit in station when they could otherwise be undocked. So a feature that makes them undock, click a rat, then dock helps how exactly? Tesian wrote: Feedback as a new player (5.5 Million SP) is that this is great. This game is a sandbox. I kill rats - I explore WHs - I hack sites - I mine - I try new ships (that I can afford) - I get killed - I am starting PI/Industry - and I sit and watch my skill queue. I don't just want to PvP 24/7 - that is not my goal, but I will PvP when I want or when I'm attacked - you better believe I will try to defend myself. The skill queue is not interactive - it just sits there... I remapped once to make training faster. I used a skill injector when I was around 4.8 million SP - and that was great. I was able to train some skills that gave me a boost and let me try some new things. It was FUN. Compared to a veteran character who has 50-80 million SP, I'm pretty gimped. I can finally use Hobgoblin II just yesterday while most people I would try to fight are in fully tiered up Confessors... How do I catch up? Do I have to watch my skill queue for 7 years just to compete? Adding things to the game is good - nobody is forced to do these things. Everyone has their own play style. I watch a lot of streams, and just last night I was watching defiantdaniel on twitch (GENT). He basically does PvP all the time - just last night he was warping around looking for people to kill, and he jumped to an asteroid belt and killed some rats that aggressed him while he was looking for the next unsuspecting victim. He was not specifically trying to do it to gain SP; it just happened naturally during his normal course of game play... I really don't understand why someone would be against this "opportunity" feature at all. I wish there were more than just this one, so maybe I can fly some T3 frigs one day or fit T2 guns. You guys take it for granted, but this game is heavily time gated for new players. Hi, I'm one of those darned veterans with 50m-80m SP. Do you know how gimped I am when compared to someone with 200m+? The entry level for basic performance in this game is very low SP wise and it can conceivably be achieved in a couple of months. After that you can polish your character, such as people are doing. Besides, the devs themselves said that this feature is specifically made to make people log in more, nothing about helping new players. A more new player friendly solution would be to just remove implants and remaps and set the base training speed to 2700 sp/hour - that's the current maximum. "slang" is shortened language for "shortened language"
Mizhir TURN LEFT 74749	Posted - 2016.04.27 19:43:50 - [2060] - Quote Tesian wrote: Compared to a veteran character who has 50-80 million SP, I'm pretty gimped. I can finally use Hobgoblin II just yesterday while most people I would try to fight are in fully tiered up Confessors... How do I catch up? Do I have to watch my skill queue for 7 years just to compete? I got nearly 100mil SP (grrr bittervet) but I, and other, are supporting mechanics that can make it easier for newbies to catch up. However dailies are just plain out horrible. If a newbie can only play a few days a week he will already be falling back compared to people who log in daily. Instead they should make an interesting system that could also teach newbies and motivate them to try out different things (abit like the career agents), and then award them SP for that but set a cap on how much SP they can earn from it (But still high enough to actually have a significant impact for the newbies). So rather than just being a boring daily chore it will encourage the newbies to try more things and it wouldn't be something that bittervets like me can just easily use for making alts since that would require us to go through all those things. One Man Crew - Collective Solo PVP - Video is out!
Ashterothi Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 396	Posted - 2016.04.27 19:51:51 - [2061] - Quote Mizhir wrote: Tesian wrote: Compared to a veteran character who has 50-80 million SP, I'm pretty gimped. I can finally use Hobgoblin II just yesterday while most people I would try to fight are in fully tiered up Confessors... How do I catch up? Do I have to watch my skill queue for 7 years just to compete? I got nearly 100mil SP (grrr bittervet) but I, and other, are supporting mechanics that can make it easier for newbies to catch up. However dailies are just plain out horrible. If a newbie can only play a few days a week he will already be falling back compared to people who log in daily. Instead they should make an interesting system that could also teach newbies and motivate them to try out different things (abit like the career agents), and then award them SP for that but set a cap on how much SP they can earn from it (But still high enough to actually have a significant impact for the newbies). So rather than just being a boring daily chore it will encourage the newbies to try more things and it wouldn't be something that bittervets like me can just easily use for making alts since that would require us to go through all those things. To further dispel this notion that this is "for newbies" the value of the SP gained is actually far higher for older players. By skilling faster as a new player, you get closer to a tier for skill injectors. Given that older players are already on the bottom tier, doing 15 days worth of dailies is an entire skill injector for me. To put that into perspective, that means that by the value of injectors at my SP tier, the first rat of each day gives an astonishing 40 million extra ISK in value through the SP granted. Listen to Hydrostatic Podcast for all your Empyrean needs!
Ashterothi Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 396	Posted - 2016.04.27 19:54:33 - [2062] - Quote Raging Bull Unchained wrote: I thought it would allready come with Citadel - but it doesnt (it seems). Limit it for chars with < 10m sps and everything is fine. CCP Rise wrote: I'm here to give you guys a heads up that sometime early next week a small daily activity reward feature will be hitting Singularity and will hopefully be making its way to TQ sometime just after Citadel. Listen to Hydrostatic Podcast for all your Empyrean needs!
Tesian Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 2	Posted - 2016.04.27 21:48:34 - [2063] - Quote Ria Nieyli wrote: Hi, I'm one of those darned veterans with 50m-80m SP. Do you know how gimped I am when compared to someone with 200m+? The entry level for basic performance in this game is very low SP wise and it can conceivably be achieved in a couple of months. After that you can polish your character, such as people are doing. Besides, the devs themselves said that this feature is specifically made to make people log in more, nothing about helping new players. A more new player friendly solution would be to just remove implants and remaps and set the base training speed to 2700 sp/hour - that's the current maximum. At 50m SP, depending on what you have trained, you could be a lot better at some things than someone at 200m, but at 5m SP, I'm years of training behind you both. The big gap is between 5m and 50m where the basic skills are trained - not the polish skills - I'm not trying to get an extra 5% tracking or whatever, I'm trying to just fit a t2 rail gun on my hull.. When you talk about entry level for basic performance, I guess that really depends on what you do in this sandbox; not everyone wants to kick over sandcastles, but it's still fun sometimes. The devs may want to encourage people to log in more with daily opportunities, and its hard to argue against it when the most successful MMO in history uses the same technique with great success. My prediction is that most older players are going to use this for alts, while new players will use it on their main characters. Both groups of players will log in each day and both groups of players are on lower SP characters since they get the most benefit at early levels of SP to have a boost - I guess I should have said helping new characters not players... I'm really perplexed at the opposition to opportunities - they do no harm and only provide a benefit. Sounds like people feel like because it exists it has to be done or they are losing out - you're not - by ignoring opportunities nothing changes for you at all, but if you choose to do them - then you get a bonus. Nobody is going to make you log in every day and do them.
Tesian Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 2	Posted - 2016.04.27 22:00:22 - [2064] - Quote Mizhir wrote: I got nearly 100mil SP (grrr bittervet) but I, and other, are supporting mechanics that can make it easier for newbies to catch up. However dailies are just plain out horrible. If a newbie can only play a few days a week he will already be falling back compared to people who log in daily. Instead they should make an interesting system that could also teach newbies and motivate them to try out different things (abit like the career agents), and then award them SP for that but set a cap on how much SP they can earn from it (But still high enough to actually have a significant impact for the newbies). So rather than just being a boring daily chore it will encourage the newbies to try more things and it wouldn't be something that bittervets like me can just easily use for making alts since that would require us to go through all those things. Should someone who plays every day not get a benefit over someone who plays 3 days a week - opportunities feature aside? That newbie is going to have less of everything - not just daily opportunity SP - if he only plays a few days a week. I agree with your other point. They should make opportunities for everything! I don't think that is what you meant though, but is it not the same thing in a way? I see the biggest problem is that to most players, aside from those with wealth enough to inject 100%, the SP pool will never be filled completely, so to them, SP is precious - and earning SP has been the same forever - making everyone equal at earning SP. Well earning SP isn't equal anymore - you can just buy it - so why stop opportunities that award SP for playing? I can login and get 10k a day by playing the game, or I can quite literally just buy it without playing at all... I would rather play.
Ria Nieyli 44823	Posted - 2016.04.27 22:14:54 - [2065] - Quote Tesian wrote: At 50m SP, depending on what you have trained, you could be a lot better at some things than someone at 200m, but at 5m SP, I'm years of training behind you both. The big gap is between 5m and 50m where the basic skills are trained - not the polish skills - I'm not trying to get an extra 5% tracking or whatever, I'm trying to just fit a t2 rail gun on my hull.. When you talk about entry level for basic performance, I guess that really depends on what you do in this sandbox; not everyone wants to kick over sandcastles, but it's still fun sometimes. The devs may want to encourage people to log in more with daily opportunities, and its hard to argue against it when the most successful MMO in history uses the same technique with great success. My prediction is that most older players are going to use this for alts, while new players will use it on their main characters. Both groups of players will log in each day and both groups of players are on lower SP characters since they get the most benefit at early levels of SP to have a boost - I guess I should have said helping new characters not players... I'm really perplexed at the opposition to opportunities - they do no harm and only provide a benefit. Sounds like people feel like because it exists it has to be done or they are losing out - you're not - by ignoring opportunities nothing changes for you at all, but if you choose to do them - then you get a bonus. Nobody is going to make you log in every day and do them. Let me adress your points in reverse order. Whenever an optional reward is introduced it becomes the new norm. Especially when it is as big as 17% extra training speed. There's no you don't have to do it. It's absolutely normative. And that percentage would be even higher for a newer player who has to train skills across attributes and has no good implants. Going from no implants to +5 implants yield 10,800 SP daily by itself. That is with no regards whether you're on the correct remap or not, because you'll always be. My proposition would be better for a newer player for the same reasons that you want these dailies without punishing people that can't log in every day. Moreover, it would be a huge quality of life improvement for everyone. Compare to an "optional" feature that will eventually burn your players out and you get the picture of why people don't like it. Because it's not good. And yes, it does burn people out. The most successful MMO you mentioned has been hemmorhaghing millions of users for years. As for achieving SP parity, at around 20m SP you can be 1:1 with someone who has perfect skills in one ship of your choice. We're talking having all relevant skills at, including esoterics like Neurotoxin Recovery V. At that point crosstraining into another ship will take 1-2 weeks or so, complete with its relevant weapons system. If you don't care about polishing skills, you can cut that 20m by about 70-80% depending on what you want to be doing, landing you in the 4-6m SP zone. And yes, I have gone through this exact process. For example, I starting doing solo frig PvP with Amarr frig 3, Pulse Laser Spec 1, 200k SP in navigation, and overall horrible support skills, but I could still kill some people. Over time I trained up, and I now enjoy much wider engagement profile, but low SP has never prevented me from doing whatever. When I was brand new I moved out to null when I had a grand total of 4m SP. Etc. etc. etc. If you need advice, there's plenty of resources on the forums and youtube, do look around and play! Don't just wait on this abracadabra feature to make things better. Because it won't. "slang" is shortened language for "shortened language"
Tesian Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 2	Posted - 2016.04.27 22:26:05 - [2066] - Quote Ashterothi wrote: Mizhir wrote: Tesian wrote: Compared to a veteran character who has 50-80 million SP, I'm pretty gimped. I can finally use Hobgoblin II just yesterday while most people I would try to fight are in fully tiered up Confessors... How do I catch up? Do I have to watch my skill queue for 7 years just to compete? I got nearly 100mil SP (grrr bittervet) but I, and other, are supporting mechanics that can make it easier for newbies to catch up. However dailies are just plain out horrible. If a newbie can only play a few days a week he will already be falling back compared to people who log in daily. Instead they should make an interesting system that could also teach newbies and motivate them to try out different things (abit like the career agents), and then award them SP for that but set a cap on how much SP they can earn from it (But still high enough to actually have a significant impact for the newbies). So rather than just being a boring daily chore it will encourage the newbies to try more things and it wouldn't be something that bittervets like me can just easily use for making alts since that would require us to go through all those things. To further dispel this notion that this is "for newbies" the value of the SP gained is actually far higher for older players. By skilling faster as a new player, you get closer to a tier for skill injectors. Given that older players are already on the bottom tier, doing 15 days worth of dailies is an entire skill injector for me. To put that into perspective, that means that by the value of injectors at my SP tier, the first rat of each day gives an astonishing 40 million extra ISK in value through the SP granted. Ah yes, skill extractors and injectors... Please tell me how to sell 10k SP for 40m ISK - just becausse you bought it for that doesn't mean that is what it's worth... I can only sell 500,000 at a time, and it costs me an extractor - so 10k SP will only get me like 8.5m ISK. This is sarcasm of course... I'm not trying to write off your example, but 10k SP is worth a wide spectrum of ISK value based on your current SP level and your cost/benefit analysis... Are we really trying to convert SP into ISK? I'm trying to convert SP into ship fits... so the faster the better... I guessing at 100m SP, you're not working on getting your t2 rail guns to fit on your Vexor (or whatever your preferred ship and gun is...pewpew).
Tesian Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 2	Posted - 2016.04.27 22:49:56 - [2067] - Quote Ria Nieyli wrote: Let me adress your points in reverse order. Whenever an optional reward is introduced it becomes the new norm. Especially when it is as big as 17% extra training speed. There's no you don't have to do it. It's absolutely normative. And that percentage would be even higher for a newer player who has to train skills across attributes and has no good implants. Going from no implants to +5 implants yield 10,800 SP daily by itself. That is with no regards whether you're on the correct remap or not, because you'll always be. My proposition would be better for a newer player for the same reasons that you want these dailies without punishing people that can't log in every day. Moreover, it would be a huge quality of life improvement for everyone. Compare to an "optional" feature that will eventually burn your players out and you get the picture of why people don't like it. Because it's not good. And yes, it does burn people out. The most successful MMO you mentioned has been hemmorhaghing millions of users for years. As for achieving SP parity, at around 20m SP you can be 1:1 with someone who has perfect skills in one ship of your choice. We're talking having all relevant skills at, including esoterics like Neurotoxin Recovery V. At that point crosstraining into another ship will take 1-2 weeks or so, complete with its relevant weapons system. If you don't care about polishing skills, you can cut that 20m by about 70-80% depending on what you want to be doing, landing you in the 4-6m SP zone. And yes, I have gone through this exact process. For example, I starting doing solo frig PvP with Amarr frig 3, Pulse Laser Spec 1, 200k SP in navigation, and overall horrible support skills, but I could still kill some people. Over time I trained up, and I now enjoy much wider engagement profile, but low SP has never prevented me from doing whatever. When I was brand new I moved out to null when I had a grand total of 4m SP. Etc. etc. etc. If you need advice, there's plenty of resources on the forums and youtube, do look around and play! Don't just wait on this abracadabra feature to make things better. Because it won't. I'm sorry you mentioned your proposition, but I haven't had a chance to read what that was (103 pages). Can you link to it? I just jumped in here at the end to give my feedback to the devs - I didn't read through the whole thread...
Ria Nieyli 44823	Posted - 2016.04.27 22:54:27 - [2068] - Quote It's literally in the quote you have in your post at the top of this page. "slang" is shortened language for "shortened language"
marVLs 716	Posted - 2016.04.28 05:45:48 - [2069] - Quote I don't like it because of one reason: It forces You to something, and guess what? If people are forced to something then action connected to that brings discouragement. Reverse psychology (Julian) Don't force players, make eve their home where they feel good. The same goes for drugs war, it's prooven that drugs campaing have opposite effect
Raging Bull Unchained Einheit X-6 178	Posted - 2016.04.28 06:43:57 - [2070] - Quote Ah, now i get the "haters". The fear of price decreasing skill injectors is huge.
Neadayan Drakhon Heuristic Industrial And Development AddictClan 160	Posted - 2016.04.28 07:58:01 - [2071] - Quote Tesian wrote: Ria Nieyli wrote: Hi, I'm one of those darned veterans with 50m-80m SP. Do you know how gimped I am when compared to someone with 200m+? The entry level for basic performance in this game is very low SP wise and it can conceivably be achieved in a couple of months. After that you can polish your character, such as people are doing. Besides, the devs themselves said that this feature is specifically made to make people log in more, nothing about helping new players. A more new player friendly solution would be to just remove implants and remaps and set the base training speed to 2700 sp/hour - that's the current maximum. At 50m SP, depending on what you have trained, you could be a lot better at some things than someone at 200m, but at 5m SP, I'm years of training behind you both. The big gap is between 5m and 50m where the basic skills are trained - not the polish skills - I'm not trying to get an extra 5% tracking or whatever, I'm trying to just fit a t2 rail gun on my hull.. When you talk about entry level for basic performance, I guess that really depends on what you do in this sandbox; not everyone wants to kick over sandcastles, but it's still fun sometimes. The devs may want to encourage people to log in more with daily opportunities, and its hard to argue against it when the most successful MMO in history uses the same technique with great success. My prediction is that most older players are going to use this for alts, while new players will use it on their main characters. Both groups of players will log in each day and both groups of players are on lower SP characters since they get the most benefit at early levels of SP to have a boost - I guess I should have said helping new characters not players... I'm really perplexed at the opposition to opportunities - they do no harm and only provide a benefit. Sounds like people feel like because it exists it has to be done or they are losing out - you're not - by ignoring opportunities nothing changes for you at all, but if you choose to do them - then you get a bonus. Nobody is going to make you log in every day and do them. It's perfectly reasonable to argue against it when that same successful MMO is the one many of us left to come play this game instead, because, among other things, of a lack of "dailies". We wanted to get away from them, not bring them to EVE. They harm the sandbox concept of the game by making such a juicy reward for directed game play. And like it or not, "Fear of Missing Out" is a very real thing, and CCP putting in this SP reward very much falls into that category, you can claim its not mandatory all you want, and you'd be technically correct, but as humans many (most?) of us will feel that it is, even when we consiously know that it isn't. I know that these aren't mandatory dailies, but they'll sure feel mandatory. If the reward was isk or LP then it would "feel" a lot more optional, even if it was a unique LP. CCP knows full well that these dailies will inspire FOMO (fear of missing out), that's why they want to do them in this exact manner. You're perplexed at the opposition, I'm genuinely perplexed at anyone who favors dailies in this game. It's not what this game is about, and not what this game needs.
Neadayan Drakhon Heuristic Industrial And Development AddictClan 160	Posted - 2016.04.28 08:11:27 - [2072] - Quote Tesian wrote: Mizhir wrote: I got nearly 100mil SP (grrr bittervet) but I, and other, are supporting mechanics that can make it easier for newbies to catch up. However dailies are just plain out horrible. If a newbie can only play a few days a week he will already be falling back compared to people who log in daily. Instead they should make an interesting system that could also teach newbies and motivate them to try out different things (abit like the career agents), and then award them SP for that but set a cap on how much SP they can earn from it (But still high enough to actually have a significant impact for the newbies). So rather than just being a boring daily chore it will encourage the newbies to try more things and it wouldn't be something that bittervets like me can just easily use for making alts since that would require us to go through all those things. Should someone who plays every day not get a benefit over someone who plays 3 days a week - opportunities feature aside? That newbie is going to have less of everything - not just daily opportunity SP - if he only plays a few days a week. I agree with your other point. They should make opportunities for everything! I don't think that is what you meant though, but is it not the same thing in a way? I see the biggest problem is that to most players, aside from those with wealth enough to inject 100%, the SP pool will never be filled completely, so to them, SP is precious - and earning SP has been the same forever - making everyone equal at earning SP. Well earning SP isn't equal anymore - you can just buy it - so why stop opportunities that award SP for playing? I can login and get 10k a day by playing the game, or I can quite literally just buy it without playing at all... I would rather play. Using skill injections as a justification for SP dailies is infuriating. Skill trading shouldn't exist, and CCP shouldn't compound their mistake by adding SP dailies.
Axhind Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation 229	Posted - 2016.04.28 08:28:55 - [2073] - Quote Tesian wrote: Ria Nieyli wrote: Hi, I'm one of those darned veterans with 50m-80m SP. Do you know how gimped I am when compared to someone with 200m+? The entry level for basic performance in this game is very low SP wise and it can conceivably be achieved in a couple of months. After that you can polish your character, such as people are doing. Besides, the devs themselves said that this feature is specifically made to make people log in more, nothing about helping new players. A more new player friendly solution would be to just remove implants and remaps and set the base training speed to 2700 sp/hour - that's the current maximum. At 50m SP, depending on what you have trained, you could be a lot better at some things than someone at 200m, but at 5m SP, I'm years of training behind you both. The big gap is between 5m and 50m where the basic skills are trained - not the polish skills - I'm not trying to get an extra 5% tracking or whatever, I'm trying to just fit a t2 rail gun on my hull.. When you talk about entry level for basic performance, I guess that really depends on what you do in this sandbox; not everyone wants to kick over sandcastles, but it's still fun sometimes. The devs may want to encourage people to log in more with daily opportunities, and its hard to argue against it when the most successful MMO in history uses the same technique with great success. My prediction is that most older players are going to use this for alts, while new players will use it on their main characters. Both groups of players will log in each day and both groups of players are on lower SP characters since they get the most benefit at early levels of SP to have a boost - I guess I should have said helping new characters not players... I'm really perplexed at the opposition to opportunities - they do no harm and only provide a benefit. Sounds like people feel like because it exists it has to be done or they are losing out - you're not - by ignoring opportunities nothing changes for you at all, but if you choose to do them - then you get a bonus. Nobody is going to make you log in every day and do them. Care to show a single MMO that has used dailies to a great effect on a long term scale? Cheap psychological tricks that force peoples behaviour work well when they have no choice (RL where you have to earn money so that your family can eat and things like that) but they do not work on luxury items like gaming. Most of us already have tons of things we have to do and EVE adding to them will lead to burnout as has been shown in every single game that has implemented dailies to artificially boost the numbers for a short while.
Mizhir TURN LEFT 74753	Posted - 2016.04.28 09:14:26 - [2074] - Quote Tesian wrote: Mizhir wrote: I got nearly 100mil SP (grrr bittervet) but I, and other, are supporting mechanics that can make it easier for newbies to catch up. However dailies are just plain out horrible. If a newbie can only play a few days a week he will already be falling back compared to people who log in daily. Instead they should make an interesting system that could also teach newbies and motivate them to try out different things (abit like the career agents), and then award them SP for that but set a cap on how much SP they can earn from it (But still high enough to actually have a significant impact for the newbies). So rather than just being a boring daily chore it will encourage the newbies to try more things and it wouldn't be something that bittervets like me can just easily use for making alts since that would require us to go through all those things. Should someone who plays every day not get a benefit over someone who plays 3 days a week - opportunities feature aside? That newbie is going to have less of everything - not just daily opportunity SP - if he only plays a few days a week. I agree with your other point. They should make opportunities for everything! I don't think that is what you meant though, but is it not the same thing in a way? I see the biggest problem is that to most players, aside from those with wealth enough to inject 100%, the SP pool will never be filled completely, so to them, SP is precious - and earning SP has been the same forever - making everyone equal at earning SP. Well earning SP isn't equal anymore - you can just buy it - so why stop opportunities that award SP for playing? I can login and get 10k a day by playing the game, or I can quite literally just buy it without playing at all... I would rather play. What if the player who plays for 3 days per week spends more hours in total playing the game than the one who logs in every day. Why should the 2nd player get more SP than the first? As for ISK, LP, Standings, and all other kinds of stuff you are in control of when you want to farm them. So if you want to spend an entire day farming missions you are able to do that without suffering a disadvantage compared to the player who runs a few missions each day. Daily opportunities are bad at teaching people how to do them. If a newbies gets an oportunity that says they should build something (just an example) and they has no clue about how industry works they have to look it up somewhere which defeats the purpose. The thing about SP from dailies is that it creates SP out of thin air. Even with injectors SP currently comes from training only which means no matter what, your SP is the result of someone being subbed. This has been the unique thing about EVE that even if you are busy in RL you can still have a character that progress nicely rather than having to grind. So you can spend your time on things you enjoy in the game rather than grinding for XP like most other MMOs. SP from dailies would go against this core principle of EVE that I like and it could create a SP inflation. If you want to get SP from playing the game you can just buy injectors. As a newbie you wouldn't even suffer from the heavy dimishing returns. One Man Crew - Collective Solo PVP - Video is out!
Yun Kuai Justified Chaos Spaceship Bebop 302	Posted - 2016.04.28 09:56:07 - [2075] - Quote The more I think about the prospect of "daily opportunities" the less I like the idea applying to the entire player base and I'll explain why in a moment. However, I do want to call out my support for this idea of rewarding players, but obviously in a different format. Instead of delivering daily opportunities for the entire player base, evolve this program to better help with the NPE. When I first started playing this game almost 8 years ago, the appeal was in the difficulty of the game and that it was such a vast game with so many options to explore compiled with the thrill of learning how to do them. Fast forward to the new player experience and you have a system that better teaches new players how to get involved with the game, but for no actual reward to them. Thus, enter the opportunities reward system that rewards new players with ships, modules, isk, and skill books like the old tutorials of the past with the addition of SP. Why would this help the NPE? The NPE is designed to get new guys learning the game at their own pace and giving them the option to get involved where they want to get involved. This means the new guys are going to try out different things; i.e. different aspects of the game. By giving them freebies that are useful like a venture for mining, a racial frig for pve/pvp, a racial frig for exploration and some basic supporting modules to actually give new players the ability to try the activity, you're setting them up to stick around as they can find something that they enjoy in the game and get started doing it much faster than previously before. Where does the addition of SP come into play? The addition of SP would be the icing on the cake for new players. As they bounce around different career options in EvE, they're going to be picking up new ships and modules to get them started, but they still have to overcome the time barrier that is so unique to EvE. As in all things in life, the best things are the ones you work for. The NPE would now reward new players with SP so that when they complete the NPE opportunity and find that it's something they want to pursue in EvE they now have some extra SP to add to the skills they picked up; i.e. making them better at the activity which should directly correlate to more fun and the desire to keep logging in to play more. Or if on the other hand they finish a NPE opportunity and decide they don't like that activity, they have extra SP to invest into another activity that they do enjoy; i.e. no lost time and no hard feelings/feelings of wasted opportunities. Overall what effects would this have on the NPE? You would have new players engaging in the game, setting them up with a very basic "survival kit" in game to get them started. They would have ships, modules, and isk to get them on their feet and also enough SP to get more involved in their preferred activity. Are there any concerns of rewarding new players like this? The biggest concern would be limiting the SP gained. Lets say to complete all of the NPE Opportunities takes 1 month. The total SP rewarded added to the 1 month training should not be over 5mil SP so that alts can't be rolled and farmed as skill injectors. Regarding the ships, modules, and isk, personally I don't see these as being problematic at all. In fact, supporting new guys so that they stick around should be priority number one. Now, why do I not like the idea of daily opportunities in EvE for the entire player base? The stated goal of this project is to get players logging in as it was measured that logging in to set skills in the past would lead more players to then stay logged in, undock, and do something in EvE. However, as many have already voiced their concerns, this project will only lead to people feeling this is a chore. The changes to the skill queue only highlight the inefficiency of EvE's non-pvp centric activities: there's not a prolific reason to log in, undock, and create some form of content. IGÇÖve been playing this game now for almost 8 years and there have only been a few moderate changes to the PvE content, but even then the content remains 90% the same. Mining hasnGÇÖt changed at all, relic/data sites got a makeover on the UI; read mini game, but the overall concept is still the same, missions havenGÇÖt changed at all minus the burner missions that never got filled out, industry and PI are still 100% set up, walk away, finish job, collect, and repeat, and the list goes on. Dailies are not dangling a carrot in front of you; theyGÇÖre poking you in the back with a sharp point while youGÇÖre walking in chains. The point is dailies arenGÇÖt addressing the issue why players arenGÇÖt logging in. It doesnGÇÖt have to do anything with setting skills at this point in the gameGÇÖs 13 year lifespan, but more in line with the fact that many activities are outdated and havenGÇÖt received the updates needed to keep them interesting to the GÇ£veteransGÇ¥. --------------------------------------------------------::::::::::::--:::-----:::---::::::::::::--------------:::----------:::----:::---:::----------------------:::::::-------:::---:::----::::::-------------------:::-----------:::--:::----:::---------------------::::::::::::----:::::::----:::::::::::::-------
Shakira Akira Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 24	Posted - 2016.04.28 17:45:21 - [2076] - Quote Tesian wrote: Compared to a veteran character who has 50-80 million SP, I'm pretty gimped. I can finally use Hobgoblin II just yesterday while most people I would try to fight are in fully tiered up Confessors... How do I catch up? Do I have to watch my skill queue for 7 years just to compete? This is the fallacy that newbies bring over from other games. Just like in every other video game, no **** your new character can't go toe to toe against a better skilled player. However, having the RIGHT ship at the right time and KNOWING how to use it as opposed to just hitting F1 Scram F2 fire. Your new character CAN beat people with higher SP. I've seen and killed plenty of older players with more SP just by exploiting the limits of their ships vice the limits of mine. The problem isn't less SP.. it's that it takes time to learn the game, and for some reason, CCP is just supporting the fallacy instead of admitting reality.
Baygun EVE University Ivy League 13	Posted - 2016.04.28 19:15:13 - [2077] - Quote Mizhir wrote: The thing about SP from dailies is that it creates SP out of thin air. For love of GOD, Satan and ... Aliens! Where All SP comes from???? It comes out of virtual vacuum of New Eden! Everyone and i'd point out to traders in Jita made free SP over the years only by subbing on only wihtout even undock.. they probably forgot how to do it. Zero risk - huge reward... in 5 years they sell carrier capable pilot on the bazaar and cache in couple of bilions. Meanwhile newbie drawn to EVE by massive ads for B-R massacre found that he needs to wait for couple of years before can survive and thrive in Null. One has asked above what is not accessible for new player. here is the list: 1. piracy 2. pvp - (i'd like to see one pvp-ing in T1 fit - for that matter faction mods are out of rech for new player due to their price) 3. missioning (anyone doing L1-L3?) 4. scam - it is not impossible, but very hard if lacking skills 5. Null sec - unless being insignificant meatshield 6. exploration - low skills = slow discovery of overpopulated high-sec Only viable "profession" is mining. CCP created SP system becasue of some obsolete reasons and now indeed they are trying to fix something that can't be fixed. I do agree that there is no MMO game that was not screwed with Dailies, but i DO DISAGREE that SP are created from tin air and that's the reason to ban skill trading and dailies, becasue in fact millions of SP were created out of nothing while i was writing this. I made a lot of SP by not even logging (due to RL) in for 40 days.
Amaya Kallio the Black Sun Cartel Shadow of xXDEATHXx 0	Posted - 2016.04.28 21:44:54 - [2078] - Quote I am a casual carebear and I think this idea is very very bad. I've spent 10 years of my life in wow and it's this sort of **** that marked the beginning of the end of the game. It's a chore that makes you feel bad if you don't do it daily, because it makes you fall behind. And it feels even worse to do it every day. It also takes away your freedom, which EVE takes pride in. What's next? LFR? Garrisons? Please don't do this, CCP. You are the last remaining anti-casual bastion in the mmo scene.
Ni Neith Hedion University Amarr Empire 33	Posted - 2016.04.28 23:31:10 - [2079] - Quote Ranafal wrote: The original idea is horrible because of injecting SP from nowhere. I propose another one: - if player A kills ship of player B, and player A has less SP than player B, then -- player A gets 100 SP -- player B loses 120 SP (numbers are just for example, can be adjusted) Great effing idea! Just make those already risk averse station hockers never undock!
WaiLong Wang Perkone Caldari State 0	Posted - 2016.04.29 01:59:55 - [2080] - Quote Here is a suggestion, CCP. Why not just make it 3mill SP on the character anniversary date.
Shae Tadaruwa Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 280	Posted - 2016.04.29 02:13:07 - [2081] - Quote If CCP feel they need to introduce a daily reward for playing, then that's a sad situation in itself, because it has to be associated with a realisation that perhaps they can't develop other mechanics for the game that motivate people enough to login. That is, the game alone isn't good enough to make people want to play it, so instead the approach is to train us like pets by rewarding certain behaviours. For me it's just a game and I'm happy to bark if needed; because none of it is serious anyway. However I hate shooting red crosses and I now feel a need to train cyno alts and my industrial characters into some combat skills so they can also earn these rewards, even though those skills are not something I would ever train on those characters. But, such is the way the game is going I guess. If the plan is to expand the types of activities that make it possible to receive the rewards, then do the whole thing right and do that from the start.
Nantis Caldari Scientific Research 0	Posted - 2016.04.29 02:37:45 - [2082] - Quote Please bring back Daily Opportunities.
NovaCat13 Seymourus and Co. 190	Posted - 2016.04.29 03:27:46 - [2083] - Quote Nantis wrote: Please bring back Daily Opportunities. It never left... Just say NO to Dailies
Daemon Jax The Madness Network Almost Broken 3	Posted - 2016.04.29 09:32:54 - [2084] - Quote CCP Rise wrote: Another small update: Thanks to feedback we see that it would improve the experience quite a lot minimize the amount of characters available for this reward so we are going to limit the reward to the first character completing the daily task on each account. Thanks Thank you. I'd also like to see it limited to characters with less than 5m total SP, or at least see it start dropping off at that point. Or have it be for something more interesting than killing any rat. How about it being a special exploration rat with its own AI that actually travels between systems via gates and that goes to non-combat exploration sites? That would be more interesting.
Neadayan Drakhon Heuristic Industrial And Development AddictClan 174	Posted - 2016.04.29 09:41:29 - [2085] - Quote NovaCat13 wrote: Nantis wrote: Please bring back Daily Opportunities. It never left... It isn't even here yet, and hopefully never will be.
Mizhir TURN LEFT 74760	Posted - 2016.04.29 14:35:57 - [2086] - Quote Baygun wrote: Mizhir wrote: The thing about SP from dailies is that it creates SP out of thin air. For love of GOD, Satan and ... Aliens! Where All SP comes from???? It comes out of virtual vacuum of New Eden! Everyone and i'd point out to traders in Jita made free SP over the years only by subbing on only wihtout even undock.. they probably forgot how to do it. Zero risk - huge reward... in 5 years they sell carrier capable pilot on the bazaar and cache in couple of bilions. Meanwhile newbie drawn to EVE by massive ads for B-R massacre found that he needs to wait for couple of years before can survive and thrive in Null. One has asked above what is not accessible for new player. here is the list: 1. piracy 2. pvp - (i'd like to see one pvp-ing in T1 fit - for that matter faction mods are out of rech for new player due to their price) 3. missioning (anyone doing L1-L3?) 4. scam - it is not impossible, but very hard if lacking skills 5. Null sec - unless being insignificant meatshield 6. exploration - low skills = slow discovery of overpopulated high-sec Only viable "profession" is mining. CCP created SP system becasue of some obsolete reasons and now indeed they are trying to fix something that can't be fixed. I do agree that there is no MMO game that was not screwed with Dailies, but i DO DISAGREE that SP are created from tin air and that's the reason to ban skill trading and dailies, becasue in fact millions of SP were created out of nothing while i was writing this. I made a lot of SP by not even logging (due to RL) in for 40 days. Do you even read what CCP or I write? Dailies isn't about Newbies and it will not fix anything for Newbies aside from speeding it up sligthly IF they log in each day. However I and other people have suggested different methods to boost the SP gain for newbies to help them get into the game. If you think mining is the only viable profession for newbies you clearly have no clue. CCP has done alot of things to improve NPE and EVE is a game where your skills in playing the game matters more than SP and ingame assets. Which is also why I would much rather see CCP expand on the career agent system and give newbies SP as a reward for that so they both gain SP and learn how to play the game. Regarding your list: 1. + 2. Check out Suitonia's videos on low SP chars for pvp: 17 Day old Rifter char 20 Day old Executioner char Low SP Kestrel guide This is what newbies can do solo. But if they join a corp or find other people to pvp with they can take down larger targets together. 3. While I personally don't like missions there are many people who enjoy progressing through them and gettting better ships. Also the SoE epic Arch should get you a long way. 4. Scamming is about fooling other players. SP is hardly relevant. 5. There are a few newbie friendly alliances these days who understands how to train their newbies to be good at other things than being meatshields. 6. Exploration has been buffed since the days I did it and Data/relic sites can easily be done with a super cheap t1 frig. People just need to go to null/lowsec or WH space. Sure they may get killed but they can easily replace the t1 frigs and will learn survival skills as well. Just ask Signal Cartel. I will add a few: 7. Trading - A great way to earn isk and there should be a few blogs about trading as a new player. I have seen people go from 1million to 1billion isk in no time on fresh characters. 8. Industry - I don't know much about this but there are cheap items that larger industry players don't care about manufacturing but would still earn a decent profit for newbies. 9. FW - Even with the ISK farming being nerfed it should still be possible to earn a bit isk and you can find some people to pvp with. Also bear in mind that being subbed cost either PLEX or RL money. So you need to deduct that from the sell price of said carrier pilot in order to tell the profit and sudenly it isn't as profitable as you make it sound like. In addition anyone is able to open an addition account and use it as a character / SP farm if they want to make ISK that way. One Man Crew - Collective Solo PVP - Video is out!
Baygun EVE University Ivy League 13	Posted - 2016.04.29 15:09:32 - [2087] - Quote Mizhir wrote: Do you even read what CCP or I write? Yes, i did. I'm sorry to sound like a troll, i enraged a bit. Generally only first paragraph was directly to your post. I very much like to reply in detail on everything else but it is for newbies subsection, not for dailies. briefly - newbie is player just setting foot in EVE, not a veteran player that knows ins-outs and everything else about the game playing a trial account ;) Fly bold o7
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 2791	Posted - 2016.04.29 15:18:36 - [2088] - Quote Baygun wrote: One has asked above what is not accessible for new player. here is the list: 1. piracy 2. pvp - (i'd like to see one pvp-ing in T1 fit - for that matter faction mods are out of rech for new player due to their price) 3. missioning (anyone doing L1-L3?) 4. scam - it is not impossible, but very hard if lacking skills 5. Null sec - unless being insignificant meatshield 6. exploration - low skills = slow discovery of overpopulated high-sec 1- You can do it in a day old character. Might be harder especially if solo but still possible. 2- People with this skill do PvP all the time. They are ususally the ones who don't go insave over EFTing fits for hours on end. FW has a **** load of that. 3- I wonder how people grind their standings if not in lvl 1-2-3 missions... 4- Entirely not based on SP. ANyone with good talking skills could pull it off as a day 1 newbie to the game. The hardest part being identifying what is worth scamming. 5- The "insignificant meat shield" is just a poor perception of how helpful new player can be. 6- Finally something that actually takes some SP to perform in the list...
Shakira Akira Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 28	Posted - 2016.04.29 17:50:40 - [2089] - Quote Baygun wrote: briefly - newbie is player just setting foot in EVE, not a veteran player that knows ins-outs and everything else about the game playing a trial account ;) Fly bold o7 That's the point though.. It's not the SP barrier that's the hurdle for newbies. It's LEARNING the game. No amount of SP will get you that.
Johnathan Coffey Niforce Triggers 47	Posted - 2016.04.29 18:06:02 - [2090] - Quote I feel I have to drop in here again, since I've done the napkin math to put a price tag and an ISK/hr on daily questscoughopportunities. Given current Injector prices, if you are able to log in, do the daily and log back out in under 6 minutes, the daily quest is worth at least 80m ISK/hr. This is for the worst case scenario, where you intend to sell the SP using an Extractor. If you actually need the SP and would consider buying an injector, the ISK/hr starts at 120m and goes up to 400m for characters over 80m SP. If you can manage to do the dailies faster, the efficiency goes up even more. These numbers (which i'm sure have been run at CCP and probably here in this thread already) demonstrate once more how bad of an idea this is. Disregarding all the dickspinning about how people supposedly make drumpfteen million an hour doing X or Y, the average player cannot afford to pass this up, unless he/she is financing his play with real money only. If implemented, dailies will be very successful in producing daily logins, as well as unhappy, burned out customers. First rule of EVE UI: right click EVERYTHING.
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 2792	Posted - 2016.04.29 18:28:26 - [2091] - Quote Johnathan Coffey wrote: I feel I have to drop in here again, since I've done the napkin math to put a price tag and an ISK/hr on daily questscoughopportunities. Given current Injector prices, if you are able to log in, do the daily and log back out in under 6 minutes, the daily quest is worth at least 80m ISK/hr. This is for the worst case scenario, where you intend to sell the SP using an Extractor. If you actually need the SP and would consider buying an injector, the ISK/hr starts at 120m and goes up to 400m for characters over 80m SP. If you can manage to do the dailies faster, the efficiency goes up even more. These numbers (which i'm sure have been run at CCP and probably here in this thread already) demonstrate once more how bad of an idea this is. Disregarding all the dickspinning about how people supposedly make drumpfteen million an hour doing X or Y, the average player cannot afford to pass this up, unless he/she is financing his play with real money only. If implemented, dailies will be very successful in producing daily logins, as well as unhappy, burned out customers. Ratting in a battleship is about 120 mill/hours because I can manage to get a BS rat killed under the 30 second mark from log-in? Any activity which has limitation on it can't really just be extrapolated to a real isk/hours ratio unless you at least state those requirement. You'd need 10 account minimum for example to sustain your number over a single hour and they all have to meet the criteria of having a opportunity open to completion with a character at 80+ mill SP.
Solhild Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 1981	Posted - 2016.04.29 22:01:38 - [2092] - Quote I really hate this idea.
Axhind Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation 236	Posted - 2016.04.30 10:04:21 - [2093] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: Johnathan Coffey wrote: I feel I have to drop in here again, since I've done the napkin math to put a price tag and an ISK/hr on daily questscoughopportunities. Given current Injector prices, if you are able to log in, do the daily and log back out in under 6 minutes, the daily quest is worth at least 80m ISK/hr. This is for the worst case scenario, where you intend to sell the SP using an Extractor. If you actually need the SP and would consider buying an injector, the ISK/hr starts at 120m and goes up to 400m for characters over 80m SP. If you can manage to do the dailies faster, the efficiency goes up even more. These numbers (which i'm sure have been run at CCP and probably here in this thread already) demonstrate once more how bad of an idea this is. Disregarding all the dickspinning about how people supposedly make drumpfteen million an hour doing X or Y, the average player cannot afford to pass this up, unless he/she is financing his play with real money only. If implemented, dailies will be very successful in producing daily logins, as well as unhappy, burned out customers. Ratting in a battleship is about 120 mill/hours because I can manage to get a BS rat killed under the 30 second mark from log-in? Any activity which has limitation on it can't really just be extrapolated to a real isk/hours ratio unless you at least state those requirement. You'd need 10 account minimum for example to sustain your number over a single hour and they all have to meet the criteria of having a opportunity open to completion with a character at 80+ mill SP. Please show us how you ratted up 120mil/hour today in a BS. On this char obviously. Since your statement implies that anyone can do it easily show us.
Dino Zavr Shadow Owls 80	Posted - 2016.04.30 10:31:48 - [2094] - Quote Actually EVE Online had been ALREADY made the F2P game as for 30-APR-16 prices: Skill extractor (Jita sell): 215kk Skill injector (Jita buy): 615kk PLEX (Jita sell): 950kk Capped toon on the main account with +4s and good remap produces 2610 sp/hour = 1,879,200 sp/month which equals 3.76 extractors/month And there are two such twinks at the active player's account, so: Simple math: 23.76(615-215) = 2*1504kk = 3008kk, this means that we earn (on average) like 3 PLEX/month keeping all three skill queues running FOR FREE. So, why to add even more free SP to the market? This shall cause further ISK inflation and decrease CCP's profits even more. PLEASE, NO DAILIES !
Ace Aideron Red Falcon Group Intrepid Crossing 7	Posted - 2016.05.01 01:32:31 - [2095] - Quote CCP Rise wrote: I'm here to give you guys a heads up that sometime early next week a small daily activity reward feature will be hitting Singularity and will hopefully be making its way to TQ sometime just after Citadel. Was this delayed? I'm not seeing it on Singularity at the moment. Or am I missing it somehow?
Neadayan Drakhon Heuristic Industrial And Development AddictClan 182	Posted - 2016.05.01 05:32:41 - [2096] - Quote Ace Aideron wrote: CCP Rise wrote: I'm here to give you guys a heads up that sometime early next week a small daily activity reward feature will be hitting Singularity and will hopefully be making its way to TQ sometime just after Citadel. Was this delayed? I'm not seeing it on Singularity at the moment. Or am I missing it somehow? hopefully they backed off and decided not to put it on even the test server
Arcturus Ursidae Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation 19	Posted - 2016.05.01 08:05:14 - [2097] - Quote It was on Sisi. For me the the problem is still not the SP or even that it's daily, the worst part is it requires log on at almost same time every day. This can only lead to burn out. Please at least any time down time to down time. The interface could be more engaging also.
Ace Aideron Red Falcon Group Intrepid Crossing 7	Posted - 2016.05.01 11:02:07 - [2098] - Quote Arcturus Ursidae wrote: It was on Sisi. Was? So no longer, right? Arcturus Ursidae wrote: For me the the problem is still not the SP or even that it's daily, the worst part is it requires log on at almost same time every day. This can only lead to burn out. At least it's every 22 hours, and not every 24, so there's a little flexibility. Arcturus Ursidae wrote: Please at least any time down time to down time. Agree. Arcturus Ursidae wrote: The interface could be more engaging also. What was the interface like?
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 2799	Posted - 2016.05.01 11:03:29 - [2099] - Quote Axhind wrote: Frostys Virpio wrote: Johnathan Coffey wrote: I feel I have to drop in here again, since I've done the napkin math to put a price tag and an ISK/hr on daily questscoughopportunities. Given current Injector prices, if you are able to log in, do the daily and log back out in under 6 minutes, the daily quest is worth at least 80m ISK/hr. This is for the worst case scenario, where you intend to sell the SP using an Extractor. If you actually need the SP and would consider buying an injector, the ISK/hr starts at 120m and goes up to 400m for characters over 80m SP. If you can manage to do the dailies faster, the efficiency goes up even more. These numbers (which i'm sure have been run at CCP and probably here in this thread already) demonstrate once more how bad of an idea this is. Disregarding all the dickspinning about how people supposedly make drumpfteen million an hour doing X or Y, the average player cannot afford to pass this up, unless he/she is financing his play with real money only. If implemented, dailies will be very successful in producing daily logins, as well as unhappy, burned out customers. Ratting in a battleship is about 120 mill/hours because I can manage to get a BS rat killed under the 30 second mark from log-in? Any activity which has limitation on it can't really just be extrapolated to a real isk/hours ratio unless you at least state those requirement. You'd need 10 account minimum for example to sustain your number over a single hour and they all have to meet the criteria of having a opportunity open to completion with a character at 80+ mill SP. Please show us how you ratted up 120mil/hour today in a BS. On this char obviously. Since your statement implies that anyone can do it easily show us. You missed my point. Ratting isn't 120 mill/hours for the same reason the opportunity won't be 400 mill/hour. You cna do it at the start of the clock but both die out quite fast. Killing your first rat for the opportunity will be really fast and extrapolating that to a full hour generate big numbers but at the end of the day, it's unsustainable even for a full hour. Killing 1 BS rat under 30 seconds can be done but that does not mean anyone really rat at 120 mill/hour because it's just as unsustainable. Grinding SP with the opportunity will cap out at a few million/22 hours because that's the most you can repeat it.
Axhind Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation 238	Posted - 2016.05.01 15:08:54 - [2100] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: Axhind wrote: Frostys Virpio wrote: Johnathan Coffey wrote: I feel I have to drop in here again, since I've done the napkin math to put a price tag and an ISK/hr on daily questscoughopportunities. Given current Injector prices, if you are able to log in, do the daily and log back out in under 6 minutes, the daily quest is worth at least 80m ISK/hr. This is for the worst case scenario, where you intend to sell the SP using an Extractor. If you actually need the SP and would consider buying an injector, the ISK/hr starts at 120m and goes up to 400m for characters over 80m SP. If you can manage to do the dailies faster, the efficiency goes up even more. These numbers (which i'm sure have been run at CCP and probably here in this thread already) demonstrate once more how bad of an idea this is. Disregarding all the dickspinning about how people supposedly make drumpfteen million an hour doing X or Y, the average player cannot afford to pass this up, unless he/she is financing his play with real money only. If implemented, dailies will be very successful in producing daily logins, as well as unhappy, burned out customers. Ratting in a battleship is about 120 mill/hours because I can manage to get a BS rat killed under the 30 second mark from log-in? Any activity which has limitation on it can't really just be extrapolated to a real isk/hours ratio unless you at least state those requirement. You'd need 10 account minimum for example to sustain your number over a single hour and they all have to meet the criteria of having a opportunity open to completion with a character at 80+ mill SP. Please show us how you ratted up 120mil/hour today in a BS. On this char obviously. Since your statement implies that anyone can do it easily show us. You missed my point. Ratting isn't 120 mill/hours for the same reason the opportunity won't be 400 mill/hour. You cna do it at the start of the clock but both die out quite fast. Killing your first rat for the opportunity will be really fast and extrapolating that to a full hour generate big numbers but at the end of the day, it's unsustainable even for a full hour. Killing 1 BS rat under 30 seconds can be done but that does not mean anyone really rat at 120 mill/hour because it's just as unsustainable. Grinding SP with the opportunity will cap out at a few million/22 hours because that's the most you can repeat it. Point is, it's high value reward, even for older players, so everyone and their dog will feel forced to do it leading to burn out in a game not exactly having problems with too many players. In the end the only effect will be increased number of logins in a day for a bit before people start burning out and going **** eve. Increased number of logins does not mean more active accounts. Unless the grand plan is to tank number of players but by devaluing SP so much that use of skill injectors goes up a lot to compensate but only suicidal company would try to pull something like that.
Solhild Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 1986	Posted - 2016.05.01 16:20:02 - [2101] - Quote I tend to spend a few hours in EVE but can only do it infrequently. I'm happy to keep the subs going in the background because the s.p. is adding up. Whether or not I'm engaging with the game enough, CCP is getting my cash. As the s.p. reward from opportunities is such a high value, we'd be stupid paying for a sub and not collecting this extra s.p. There is no question that I'd try logging in every day as often as possible but will be really irritated with the game on the occasions I fail to be able to log in. When my subs run out, I'll not renew and will feel thankful to be freed up from the grind of having to log in. Maybe I'll come in for the odd month at some point in the future but we know that wouldn't be likely. I wonder how many people will do the same as me? This is such a monumentally stupid idea that it makes me sad that it has any support. Opportunities should be for new chars, definitely not s.p. at all. Maybe just logging in could give LP tradable only for vanity items but that would be as far as it should ever go.
Arcturus Ursidae Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation 19	Posted - 2016.05.01 18:03:40 - [2102] - Quote Just checked Sisi and the daily opportunities does not seem to be there anymore, the alt character I tested it on still has the skill points though. As for the look, it was just an extension of the other opportunities, the icon changed to 22 hr countdown once completed. My issue with it is that it has no reason or explanation, no agent or dialogue and no reasoning behind it. Considering that although not targeted at new players it would certainly be something they latch on to existing and needing to complete daily its implementation felt particularly weak. It seems unlikely that it is gone for good, I will await a Dev response it is Sunday after all. Waits patiently
Sephiroth Clone VII Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance 167	Posted - 2016.05.01 18:56:17 - [2103] - Quote Its kind of cheasy but meh. ' I would be for a skill system where you get skills by doing a related activity which would be like elderscrolls, say for example to get lasers up you need to shoot with lasers. But then... that would thrown a wrench into the system. The eve system is refreshing considering........ the bland grindfests which are other games, we get skills and can do whatever we want. While I myself do rat occasionally, this does encourage one kind of playstyle when the game is so much more, some characters might avoid ratting alltgeather for much of carrer which is the nature of eve, a person can be all into industry PI, hauling etc. But trying to measure activity in many other ways might be complicated. Thankfully its not something like, run a mission for a NPC because those are not everywhere like say rats in wormholes or nullsec.
WaiLong Wang Perkone Caldari State 2	Posted - 2016.05.02 01:06:00 - [2104] - Quote PLEASE... I AM BEGGING YOU! Do not DUMB down EVE for new player sake. I started back in 2008 and it was hard to learn EVE mechanics, but i mastered it after few months of being killed, scammed, etc. New players can do it too if they are dedicated play.
Side1Bu2Rnz9 Trojan Legion Goonswarm Federation 8	Posted - 2016.05.02 04:55:57 - [2105] - Quote Ladies and Gentlemen... you're wasting your breath... CCP doesn't care about the 106 pages of people almost unanimously opposed to this idea. If CCP wants to do it then ** the player base right?? It's CCP's game and we're all just lucky enough to log in and watch it burn down around us. CCP will only be happy once EVE gets to the point where everyone logs on just so they can do the one stupid objective, but then logs off because ** playing for fun right?
Solhild Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 1990	Posted - 2016.05.02 07:48:11 - [2106] - Quote Side1Bu2Rnz9 wrote: Ladies and Gentlemen... you're wasting your breath... CCP doesn't care about the 106 pages of people almost unanimously opposed to this idea. If CCP wants to do it then ** the player base right?? It's CCP's game and we're all just lucky enough to log in and watch it burn down around us. CCP will only be happy once EVE gets to the point where everyone logs on just so they can do the one stupid objective, but then logs off because ** playing for fun right? My main characters in the accounts I still use have around 150 million skill points each, lovingly nurtured by me over the last 7 years all over New Eden's sandbox. I'm now penalised if I want to use skill injectors on them so I won't invest there, stupid game design. I play EVE casually and will now be penalised because I can't/won't log in every day. I don't want to be penalised for subscribing to EVE. I work on a 12 month sub so CCP gets money in advance from me, I would imagine that this would be a good thing. One sub is up in a month and the other in nine months. Just cancelled the renewal and will reconsider if EVE remains a sandbox that's worth continuing to invest in. Just been through my transactions with CCP, you've earned well with me over the years. I hope your new direction pays off.
Johnathan Coffey Niforce Triggers 51	Posted - 2016.05.02 13:12:31 - [2107] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: You missed my point. Ratting isn't 120 mill/hours for the same reason the opportunity won't be 400 mill/hour. You cna do it at the start of the clock but both die out quite fast. Killing your first rat for the opportunity will be really fast and extrapolating that to a full hour generate big numbers but at the end of the day, it's unsustainable even for a full hour. Killing 1 BS rat under 30 seconds can be done but that does not mean anyone really rat at 120 mill/hour because it's just as unsustainable. Grinding SP with the opportunity will cap out at a few million/22 hours because that's the most you can repeat it. No, YOU missed MY point, namely the fact that this change provides unreasonable rewards for what is literally the most boring activity in EVE (typing your password and waiting to log in). Also, speak for yourself. I have way more than ten accounts, although only about five are subbed currently. Lastly and amusingly, the best way to increase your ISK/hr doing this would be to get a faster SSD in your rig, so you don't have to wait so long for the EVE client to load. But that's just a side note. First rule of EVE UI: right click EVERYTHING.
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 2800	Posted - 2016.05.02 15:32:56 - [2108] - Quote Johnathan Coffey wrote: Frostys Virpio wrote: You missed my point. Ratting isn't 120 mill/hours for the same reason the opportunity won't be 400 mill/hour. You cna do it at the start of the clock but both die out quite fast. Killing your first rat for the opportunity will be really fast and extrapolating that to a full hour generate big numbers but at the end of the day, it's unsustainable even for a full hour. Killing 1 BS rat under 30 seconds can be done but that does not mean anyone really rat at 120 mill/hour because it's just as unsustainable. Grinding SP with the opportunity will cap out at a few million/22 hours because that's the most you can repeat it. No, YOU missed MY point, namely the fact that this change provides unreasonable rewards for what is literally the most boring activity in EVE (typing your password and waiting to log in). Also, speak for yourself. I have way more than ten accounts, although only about five are subbed currently. Lastly and amusingly, the best way to increase your ISK/hr doing this would be to get a faster SSD in your rig, so you don't have to wait so long for the EVE client to load. But that's just a side note. Remember to divide your total income by the number of required accounts to generate it...
Johnathan Coffey Niforce Triggers 51	Posted - 2016.05.02 16:33:15 - [2109] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: Johnathan Coffey wrote: Frostys Virpio wrote: You missed my point. Ratting isn't 120 mill/hours for the same reason the opportunity won't be 400 mill/hour. You cna do it at the start of the clock but both die out quite fast. Killing your first rat for the opportunity will be really fast and extrapolating that to a full hour generate big numbers but at the end of the day, it's unsustainable even for a full hour. Killing 1 BS rat under 30 seconds can be done but that does not mean anyone really rat at 120 mill/hour because it's just as unsustainable. Grinding SP with the opportunity will cap out at a few million/22 hours because that's the most you can repeat it. No, YOU missed MY point, namely the fact that this change provides unreasonable rewards for what is literally the most boring activity in EVE (typing your password and waiting to log in). Also, speak for yourself. I have way more than ten accounts, although only about five are subbed currently. Lastly and amusingly, the best way to increase your ISK/hr doing this would be to get a faster SSD in your rig, so you don't have to wait so long for the EVE client to load. But that's just a side note. Remember to divide your total income by the number of required accounts to generate it... Confirming that five divided by five is indeed one. First rule of EVE UI: right click EVERYTHING.
Agemnia Auhman Auhman Project Heavy Industrial Division 12	Posted - 2016.05.03 22:19:36 - [2110] - Quote Just to say I haven't read this entire thread because of how aggressive it became and I'm not in a fleet, so if I'm repeating an idea someone else has shouted already i apologize. SUGGESTION :Allow the daily to be one of any number of given tasks, that essentially are the fundamental corner blocks of all the different professions in eve. Kill a rat. Deliver or install an industry job. Activate for one cycle a miner/harvester/gas huffer/etc. Locate a Relic /Data /Combat site/wormhole/player vessel with combat or scan probes. Jump /10/25/50? stargates. Cause damage to or activate an offensive module another player. Activate a repair module or warfare link that affects another player. Use a Jump/ gate /bridge/thingy. etc The whole point behind this idea being that the player has more control over what they do in order to get their bonus of 10000 SP instead of performing a task they would not normally do in order to get it. You could have set it up to be any one of these activities or that the players selects one of their choosing. In order to combat botting etc, my only suggestion is you could just make the task more difficult to complete, so Kill 25/50 rats or locate 3 or 5 Scan-able sites or mine 5000m3 of anything etc, but that would obviously change the whole dynamic somewhat. The skill point reward is, in my opinion, the only one worth offering, though i will say i have 1 account and 2 characters. Any financial reward would be too hard to balance or insignificant to incentivize players. It also offer more freedoms along with the skill injectors from the rigidity of the skill queue by providing the character with a rolling pool of un-allocated SP. And 10000 additional SP per day is not exactly Titan V in a week is it? Overall though dailies get a thumbs up from this nobody, with a little tweaking would be nice new feature for both vets and the new fodder/sheep/wolves/baitRetrievers/players.
Bleedingthrough 204	Posted - 2016.05.04 02:04:57 - [2111] - Quote If you got these skillpoints once per day for killing a PC instead of an NPC I would want this change. Don't make new Players think EvE is about red crosses!
Soca Frenzy The Scope Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2016.05.04 02:09:25 - [2112] - Quote Why not ? Like a care about this game anymore ....
Tiddle Jr Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 847	Posted - 2016.05.04 03:00:17 - [2113] - Quote Like someone said why not make reward base on the size of NPC killed, e.g. if i kill an Officer NPC i would expect something equal in terms of reward. even if i don't have and shiny officer item i would receive 50k of SP
Indahmawar Fazmarai 5170	Posted - 2016.05.04 07:01:42 - [2114] - Quote Agemnia Auhman wrote: Just to say I haven't read this entire thread because of how aggressive it became and I'm not in a fleet, so if I'm repeating an idea someone else has shouted already i apologize. SUGGESTION :Allow the daily to be one of any number of given tasks, that essentially are the fundamental corner blocks of all the different professions in eve. Kill a rat. Deliver or install an industry job. Activate for one cycle a miner/harvester/gas huffer/etc. Locate a Relic /Data /Combat site/wormhole/player vessel with combat or scan probes. Jump /10/25/50? stargates. Cause damage to or activate an offensive module another player. Activate a repair module or warfare link that affects another player. Use a Jump/ gate /bridge/thingy. etc The whole point behind this idea being that the player has more control over what they do in order to get their bonus of 10000 SP instead of performing a task they would not normally do in order to get it. You could have set it up to be any one of these activities or that the players selects one of their choosing. In order to combat botting etc, my only suggestion is you could just make the task more difficult to complete, so Kill 25/50 rats or locate 3 or 5 Scan-able sites or mine 5000m3 of anything etc, but that would obviously change the whole dynamic somewhat. The skill point reward is, in my opinion, the only one worth offering, though i will say i have 1 account and 2 characters. Any financial reward would be too hard to balance or insignificant to incentivize players. It also offer more freedoms along with the skill injectors from the rigidity of the skill queue by providing the character with a rolling pool of un-allocated SP. And 10000 additional SP per day is not exactly Titan V in a week is it? Overall though dailies get a thumbs up from this nobody, with a little tweaking would be nice new feature for both vets and the new fodder/sheep/wolves/baitRetrievers/players. The design goal is to get people to log in. Things happened when people logged in just to sort their skill queue and then things stopped happening when that incentive for login in was removed. CCP's plan is to add a login incentive. 106 pages later, I still have to read a proposal on how to incentivize login in each day without a daily reward or penalty for login in. There are only so many types of incentives: negative incentives and positive incentives. Negative incentive: lose something if you don't log in. Positive incentive: get something if you log in. What you are replacing is the negative incentive of not earning SP if you didn't log in to fill a skill queue. So, what are the suggestions of everyone bitching here?
Lavayar Russian SOBR Dream Fleet 281	Posted - 2016.05.04 07:07:09 - [2115] - Quote Dino Zavr wrote: Actually EVE Online had been ALREADY made the F2P game as for 30-APR-16 prices: Skill extractor (Jita sell): 215kk Skill injector (Jita buy): 615kk PLEX (Jita sell): 950kk Capped toon on the main account with +4s and good remap produces 2610 sp/hour = 1,879,200 sp/month which equals 3.76 extractors/month And there are two such twinks at the active player's account, so: Simple math: 23.76(615-215) = 2*1504kk = 3008kk, this means that we earn (on average) like 3 PLEX/month keeping all three skill queues running FOR FREE. So, why to add even more free SP to the market? This shall cause further ISK inflation and decrease CCP's profits even more. PLEASE, NO DAILIES ! Actually it INCREASES CCP's profits You always should remember that someone has to buy PLEX and Extractor from CCP before you can use it (by obtaining it through market) 3 x PLEX (19.95$) + 4 x Extractor (2 x 2000 AUR 9.99$) = 79,83$ 3 x Subscription (14.95$) = 44,85$ (you can always recalculate using bulk prices but it will be much worse) But there are two conditions: 1) someone has to sell SP badly (they must have strong motivation to do that) 2) someone want to buy SP badly (perfectly newcomer whales) But I agree. NO DAILIES PLEASE.
Drago Shouna Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire 358	Posted - 2016.05.04 08:15:46 - [2116] - Quote Johnathan Coffey wrote: Frostys Virpio wrote: You missed my point. Ratting isn't 120 mill/hours for the same reason the opportunity won't be 400 mill/hour. You cna do it at the start of the clock but both die out quite fast. Killing your first rat for the opportunity will be really fast and extrapolating that to a full hour generate big numbers but at the end of the day, it's unsustainable even for a full hour. Killing 1 BS rat under 30 seconds can be done but that does not mean anyone really rat at 120 mill/hour because it's just as unsustainable. Grinding SP with the opportunity will cap out at a few million/22 hours because that's the most you can repeat it. No, YOU missed MY point, namely the fact that this change provides unreasonable rewards for what is literally the most boring activity in EVE (typing your password and waiting to log in). Also, speak for yourself. I have way more than ten accounts, although only about five are subbed currently. Lastly and amusingly, the best way to increase your ISK/hr doing this would be to get a faster SSD in your rig, so you don't have to wait so long for the EVE client to load. But that's just a side note. Really? As far as these forums are concerned the most boring activity in EVE is mining, it proves they are all wrong, apart from me that is..I love mining
Ria Nieyli 44983	Posted - 2016.05.04 10:18:56 - [2117] - Quote Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote: The design goal is to get people to log in. Things happened when people logged in just to sort their skill queue and then things stopped happening when that incentive for login in was removed. CCP's plan is to add a login incentive. 106 pages later, I still have to read a proposal on how to incentivize login in each day without a daily reward or penalty for login in. There are only so many types of incentives: negative incentives and positive incentives. Negative incentive: lose something if you don't log in. Positive incentive: get something if you log in. What you are replacing is the negative incentive of not earning SP if you didn't log in to fill a skill queue. So, what are the suggestions of everyone bitching here? People that like playing the game log in. Is that hard to grasp? You're the only one that's bitching, and supposedly about a change you want. "slang" is shortened language for "shortened language"
Indahmawar Fazmarai 5173	Posted - 2016.05.04 13:04:16 - [2118] - Quote Ria Nieyli wrote: Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote: The design goal is to get people to log in. Things happened when people logged in just to sort their skill queue and then things stopped happening when that incentive for login in was removed. CCP's plan is to add a login incentive. 106 pages later, I still have to read a proposal on how to incentivize login in each day without a daily reward or penalty for login in. There are only so many types of incentives: negative incentives and positive incentives. Negative incentive: lose something if you don't log in. Positive incentive: get something if you log in. What you are replacing is the negative incentive of not earning SP if you didn't log in to fill a skill queue. So, what are the suggestions of everyone bitching here? People that like playing the game log in. Non sequitur. We are not talking about whether people "like" or "don't like" playing the game. We are talking about "used to log in for setting skills" and "now don't log in because they don't need to set skills" and how to make them log in again. All you say is that is terrible to miss SP because you didn't log in... which is what happened before the skillqueue changes, with the added offense that back then those "missed" SP couldn't be recouped in no way.
Mizhir TURN LEFT 74763	Posted - 2016.05.04 14:08:50 - [2119] - Quote Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote: 106 pages later, I still have to read a proposal on how to incentivize login in each day without a daily reward or penalty for login in. That is because you have tunnelvision on this and think that making players log in daily will fix CCP's problems. While we are overall against any time based login incentives I have seen a few proposals on how to soften it up so you have the opportunity to either partially or fully catch up if you have been away for a few days. It could be that they change it to weekly opportunities instead of dailies or make the dailies "pool up" to a certain extend so if you haven't done them for a few days they are still available when you do log in. The best would still be CCP actually respecting the needs of their players and let the players decide how they will play the game and instead focusing on making interesting content. Interresting content = more players playing. Even small mini events (like the easter one) have seemed to have a positive influence on log in count so small random events could be an easy way for CCP to boost the login sligthly. Some of it could even be tied with the lore and other things going on in the game. One Man Crew - Collective Solo PVP - Video is out!
Raging Bull Unchained Einheit X-6 341	Posted - 2016.05.04 14:30:18 - [2120] - Quote I was looking for infos / ETA. Any news about when this will hit TQ?
Worf McGregor EVE University Ivy League 7	Posted - 2016.05.04 14:48:08 - [2121] - Quote CCP is not saying, so log on Daily to find out. ;-)
Raging Bull Unchained Einheit X-6 343	Posted - 2016.05.04 14:51:39 - [2122] - Quote Worf McGregor wrote: CCP is not saying, so log on Daily to find out. ;-) Haha! Touch+¬
Indahmawar Fazmarai 5175	Posted - 2016.05.04 21:07:28 - [2123] - Quote Mizhir wrote: Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote: 106 pages later, I still have to read a proposal on how to incentivize login in each day without a daily reward or penalty for login in. That is because you have tunnelvision on this and think that making players log in daily will fix CCP's problems. While we are overall against any time based login incentives I have seen a few proposals on how to soften it up so you have the opportunity to either partially or fully catch up if you have been away for a few days. It could be that they change it to weekly opportunities instead of dailies or make the dailies "pool up" to a certain extend so if you haven't done them for a few days they are still available when you do log in. The best would still be CCP actually respecting the needs of their players and let the players decide how they will play the game and instead focusing on making interesting content. Interresting content = more players playing. Even small mini events (like the easter one) have seemed to have a positive influence on log in count so small random events could be an easy way for CCP to boost the login sligthly. Some of it could even be tied with the lore and other things going on in the game. Oh really? Are you even remotely aware on how many bloody years I've been saying the same? And now CCP is late. See, I don't mind pennies from heaven.This is why I want this idea to be released. But it's too late. It wil not work that well and is not what the game needs. CCP is late. They can't finish the Rubicon Plan before being run over by the backlog of neglected playstyles. They really should had made Rubicon a Plan for everyone and not a Plan for the chosen few.
Alexis Nightwish 437	Posted - 2016.05.04 21:56:55 - [2124] - Quote Solhild wrote: Side1Bu2Rnz9 wrote: Ladies and Gentlemen... you're wasting your breath... CCP doesn't care about the 106 pages of people almost unanimously opposed to this idea. If CCP wants to do it then ** the player base right?? It's CCP's game and we're all just lucky enough to log in and watch it burn down around us. CCP will only be happy once EVE gets to the point where everyone logs on just so they can do the one stupid objective, but then logs off because ** playing for fun right? My main characters in the accounts I still use have around 150 million skill points each, lovingly nurtured by me over the last 7 years all over New Eden's sandbox. I'm now penalised if I want to use skill injectors on them so I won't invest there, stupid game design. I play EVE casually and will now be penalised because I can't/won't log in every day. I don't want to be penalised for subscribing to EVE. I work on a 12 month sub so CCP gets money in advance from me, I would imagine that this would be a good thing. One sub is up in a month and the other in nine months. Just cancelled the renewal and will reconsider if EVE remains a sandbox that's worth continuing to invest in. Just been through my transactions with CCP, you've earned well with me over the years. I hope your new direction pays off. I'm in a very similar situation. CCP crossed the Rubicon with skill injectors. My accounts will expire this summer, and honestly, I no longer care. CCP approaches problems in one of two ways: nudge or cludge EVE Online's "I win!" Button Fixing bombs, not the bombers
Neadayan Drakhon Heuristic Industrial And Development AddictClan 188	Posted - 2016.05.04 22:52:21 - [2125] - Quote Raging Bull Unchained wrote: I was looking for infos / ETA. Any news about when this will hit TQ? hopefully never
P3ps1 Max Hedion University Amarr Empire 33	Posted - 2016.05.04 23:50:16 - [2126] - Quote Does anyone know when this will be live on the servers? I thought it was going up with this latest expansion... ?=ƒæ+=ƒÆÇ=ƒÆ¬
Sgt Ocker Kenshin. DARKNESS. 940	Posted - 2016.05.05 00:12:16 - [2127] - Quote P3ps1 Max wrote: Does anyone know when this will be live on the servers? I thought it was going up with this latest expansion... ?=ƒæ+=ƒÆÇ=ƒÆ¬ They did state - Soon after Citadel Release but I wouldn't hold my breath. It will just appear one day, I'd suggest following Devs on Reddit/eve, new things seem to make it there before Eve forums... My opinions are mine. If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Axhind Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation 251	Posted - 2016.05.05 09:48:30 - [2128] - Quote Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote: Agemnia Auhman wrote: Just to say I haven't read this entire thread because of how aggressive it became and I'm not in a fleet, so if I'm repeating an idea someone else has shouted already i apologize. SUGGESTION :Allow the daily to be one of any number of given tasks, that essentially are the fundamental corner blocks of all the different professions in eve. Kill a rat. Deliver or install an industry job. Activate for one cycle a miner/harvester/gas huffer/etc. Locate a Relic /Data /Combat site/wormhole/player vessel with combat or scan probes. Jump /10/25/50? stargates. Cause damage to or activate an offensive module another player. Activate a repair module or warfare link that affects another player. Use a Jump/ gate /bridge/thingy. etc The whole point behind this idea being that the player has more control over what they do in order to get their bonus of 10000 SP instead of performing a task they would not normally do in order to get it. You could have set it up to be any one of these activities or that the players selects one of their choosing. In order to combat botting etc, my only suggestion is you could just make the task more difficult to complete, so Kill 25/50 rats or locate 3 or 5 Scan-able sites or mine 5000m3 of anything etc, but that would obviously change the whole dynamic somewhat. The skill point reward is, in my opinion, the only one worth offering, though i will say i have 1 account and 2 characters. Any financial reward would be too hard to balance or insignificant to incentivize players. It also offer more freedoms along with the skill injectors from the rigidity of the skill queue by providing the character with a rolling pool of un-allocated SP. And 10000 additional SP per day is not exactly Titan V in a week is it? Overall though dailies get a thumbs up from this nobody, with a little tweaking would be nice new feature for both vets and the new fodder/sheep/wolves/baitRetrievers/players. The design goal is to get people to log in. Things happened when people logged in just to sort their skill queue and then things stopped happening when that incentive for login in was removed. CCP's plan is to add a login incentive. 106 pages later, I still have to read a proposal on how to incentivize login in each day without a daily reward or penalty for login in. There are only so many types of incentives: negative incentives and positive incentives. Negative incentive: lose something if you don't log in. Positive incentive: get something if you log in. What you are replacing is the negative incentive of not earning SP if you didn't log in to fill a skill queue. So, what are the suggestions of everyone bitching here? Design goal is to pad numbers as CCP probably has financial difficulties as usual. The idea that numbers are down just due to the queue change and not due to jump fatigue, fozzie sov and rest of the "eve is all about small gang PvP" design goals is absurd. It's obvious from the recent numbers that eve players care about large scale drama and fighting and not about insignificant 5v5 fights that means jack **** in the grand scheme of things. Introducing dailies will pad the numbers for a bit until people start burning out. Remember that most EVE players are not 12 y.o. with infinite amounts of free space but people with jobs and families which means not everyone can play every single day. Punishing those of your players who are actually ones with RL money (the money that CCP needs to finance all their pipe dreams) in effort to go after the demographic that has always been free of RL money is suicidal. If they want people to login then provide conflict drivers and go away from the idiotic meta of everyone lives in perfectly safe NPC low sec stations. Kick out PL, NC., Imperium and russians back into 0.0. Force us to fight for real. Ofc that means that citadels would have to start working properly and that they will have to nerf the NPC stations into the ground not to mention that should probably involve citadels in only player 0.0 being allowed to accept supers and titans for docking and mooring.
Cloudia Schmidt United Offensive Operations Invidia Gloriae Comes 0	Posted - 2016.05.05 10:21:21 - [2129] - Quote Moin, moin Not life and on the Test Server it dosend work!!! cot you Askplan that? MfG
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 2809	Posted - 2016.05.05 14:37:51 - [2130] - Quote Bleedingthrough wrote: If you got these skillpoints once per day for killing a PC instead of an NPC I would want this change. Don't make new Players think EvE is about red crosses! You want to tell them it's about shooting your other account in a rookie ship instead?
Sama Dobrota Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 56	Posted - 2016.05.05 16:51:04 - [2131] - Quote Please, let me repeat. The real purpose of enforcing dailies is not making players login often. CCP keeps back the real reason. With current prices two capped twinks at one account can produce enough ISK to keep three learning queues active. This means free to play game. Sure this shall raise the demand for PLEX and Multiple pilot training certificates, but for sure CCP is to: 1) stop discount sales of Skill extractors 2) devalue SP to make GÇ£milkingGÇ¥ two twinks not enough to feed three toons Thus, Skillpoints as a reward should increase the supply of Skillpoints. With steady demand the price of newly introduced currency would decrease. How much? I m not an economist and it might be interesting to hear a good professional forecast about SP market. So, today, we witness an interesting experiment. First, we have got SP trading (which is a horrible idea), now to correct the way it goes - SP generation from a thin air (which is even worse one).
Alyssa Severasse C.Q.B Snuffed Out 19	Posted - 2016.05.05 22:37:35 - [2132] - Quote Sama Dobrota wrote: Please, let me repeat. The real purpose of enforcing dailies is not making players login often. CCP keeps back the real reason. With current prices two capped twinks at one account can produce enough ISK to keep three learning queues active. This means free to play game. Sure this shall raise the demand for PLEX and Multiple pilot training certificates, but for sure CCP is to: 1) stop discount sales of Skill extractors 2) devalue SP to make GÇ£milkingGÇ¥ two twinks not enough to feed three toons Thus, Skillpoints as a reward should increase the supply of Skillpoints. With steady demand the price of newly introduced currency would decrease. How much? I m not an economist and it might be interesting to hear a good professional forecast about SP market. So, today, we witness an interesting experiment. First, we have got SP trading (which is a horrible idea), now to correct the way it goes - SP generation from a thin air (which is even worse one). Wow, yes, free to play game. Because ingame plex is magically put onto the Jita market by CCP. No. Wait. Maybe. Just maybe. Players are buying those plexes with their cold hard cash (because they can't be arsed to earn money in game) and selling them for ISK. For every player who thinks it's 'free to play' is another player marveling at how much ISK they are getting for their dollars. The two sides of this equation will always balance out (and overall CCP wins). Adding more skill points = more skill extractors (which means more Aurum, which means more cash for CCP), and more people throwing dollars on plex to train up their chars quicker. Plus it artificially inflates player numbers on each day - probably one of CCP's metrics. 10000 free SP/day isn't game breaking. I do think there are better ways to get people to log in than giant dangly carrots. Content is what we want (and we as players try and do as much of that as we can).
Sama Dobrota Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 57	Posted - 2016.05.05 23:21:56 - [2133] - Quote Alyssa Severasse wrote: 10000 free SP/day isn't game breaking. Yes, but why SP ? Even small AUR reward would not be so awful.
Sgt Ocker Kenshin. DARKNESS. 941	Posted - 2016.05.06 00:12:26 - [2134] - Quote Sama Dobrota wrote: Alyssa Severasse wrote: 10000 free SP/day isn't game breaking. Yes, but why SP ? Even small AUR reward would not be so awful. 4 hours per day of training for a few minutes effort? Or a bit of Aurum, you need to save for months to get an overpriced skin etc from the money store.. I'll take the SP - If for no other reason than to turn it into a skill injector I can make isk on. Or just cut a few hours off one of my lengthy training cues each day. That's roughly 28 hours off each skill cue each week, what's not to like.. My opinions are mine. If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Lugh Crow-Slave 2441	Posted - 2016.05.06 01:47:08 - [2135] - Quote Sgt Ocker wrote: what's not to like.. grinding for sp Citadel worm hole tax
NovaCat13 Seymourus and Co. 194	Posted - 2016.05.06 03:00:48 - [2136] - Quote Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Sgt Ocker wrote: what's not to like.. grinding for sp QFT Just say NO to Dailies
Tiddle Jr Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 847	Posted - 2016.05.06 03:43:57 - [2137] - Quote Sgt Ocker wrote: Sama Dobrota wrote: Alyssa Severasse wrote: 10000 free SP/day isn't game breaking. Yes, but why SP ? Even small AUR reward would not be so awful. 4 hours per day of training for a few minutes effort? Or a bit of Aurum, you need to save for months to get an overpriced skin etc from the money store.. I'll take the SP - If for no other reason than to turn it into a skill injector I can make isk on. Or just cut a few hours off one of my lengthy training cues each day. That's roughly 28 hours off each skill cue each week, what's not to like.. Welcome to SlavePoints Online!
Neadayan Drakhon Heuristic Industrial And Development AddictClan 193	Posted - 2016.05.06 05:08:12 - [2138] - Quote Sgt Ocker wrote: Sama Dobrota wrote: Alyssa Severasse wrote: 10000 free SP/day isn't game breaking. Yes, but why SP ? Even small AUR reward would not be so awful. 4 hours per day of training for a few minutes effort? Or a bit of Aurum, you need to save for months to get an overpriced skin etc from the money store.. I'll take the SP - If for no other reason than to turn it into a skill injector I can make isk on. Or just cut a few hours off one of my lengthy training cues each day. That's roughly 28 hours off each skill cue each week, what's not to like.. this, among other reasons, is why there shouldn't be SP dailies or skill trading
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 2811	Posted - 2016.05.06 05:14:50 - [2139] - Quote Sgt Ocker wrote: Sama Dobrota wrote: Alyssa Severasse wrote: 10000 free SP/day isn't game breaking. Yes, but why SP ? Even small AUR reward would not be so awful. 4 hours per day of training for a few minutes effort? Or a bit of Aurum, you need to save for months to get an overpriced skin etc from the money store.. I'll take the SP - If for no other reason than to turn it into a skill injector I can make isk on. Or just cut a few hours off one of my lengthy training cues each day. That's roughly 28 hours off each skill cue each week, what's not to like.. Giving Aurum don't work because there are paid service which you can get by paying with Aurum. They're not going to **** away money for that when they can literally give us the thing the very large majority of EVE player a completely addicted to which can't be used to stop paying them real money for anything.
Indahmawar Fazmarai 5178	Posted - 2016.05.06 06:53:03 - [2140] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: Sgt Ocker wrote: Sama Dobrota wrote: Alyssa Severasse wrote: 10000 free SP/day isn't game breaking. Yes, but why SP ? Even small AUR reward would not be so awful. 4 hours per day of training for a few minutes effort? Or a bit of Aurum, you need to save for months to get an overpriced skin etc from the money store.. I'll take the SP - If for no other reason than to turn it into a skill injector I can make isk on. Or just cut a few hours off one of my lengthy training cues each day. That's roughly 28 hours off each skill cue each week, what's not to like.. Giving Aurum don't work because there are paid service which you can get by paying with Aurum. They're not going to **** away money for that when they can literally give us the thing the very large majority of EVE player a completely addicted to which can't be used to stop paying them real money for anything. Ditto. Also, the incentive they are replacing was based on SP: "log in or miss SP because your queue is empty".
Neadayan Drakhon Heuristic Industrial And Development AddictClan 197	Posted - 2016.05.06 11:24:29 - [2141] - Quote Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote: Frostys Virpio wrote: Sgt Ocker wrote: Sama Dobrota wrote: Alyssa Severasse wrote: 10000 free SP/day isn't game breaking. Yes, but why SP ? Even small AUR reward would not be so awful. 4 hours per day of training for a few minutes effort? Or a bit of Aurum, you need to save for months to get an overpriced skin etc from the money store.. I'll take the SP - If for no other reason than to turn it into a skill injector I can make isk on. Or just cut a few hours off one of my lengthy training cues each day. That's roughly 28 hours off each skill cue each week, what's not to like.. Giving Aurum don't work because there are paid service which you can get by paying with Aurum. They're not going to **** away money for that when they can literally give us the thing the very large majority of EVE player a completely addicted to which can't be used to stop paying them real money for anything. Ditto. Also, the incentive they are replacing was based on SP: "log in or miss SP because your queue is empty". Basically they got rid of a Fear Of Missing Out item and want to bring it back in a slightly different form. Making the longer skill queue was a VERY good thing; SP dailies would pretty much undo that, figuratively anyway. Still saying a big fat NO to dailies. Hopefully CCP's dropped it and just doesn't want to admit it.
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 2812	Posted - 2016.05.06 12:27:21 - [2142] - Quote Neadayan Drakhon wrote: Hopefully CCP's dropped it and just doesn't want to admit it. Telling us they dropped it in that case would eb the best PR move of the whole ordeal possible. They are either blind to it or just working on a different implementation and keeping silent while it's still being modified. Or it's going along with no change at all and just currently disabled from SiSi for :reasons:.
Lugh Crow-Slave 2456	Posted - 2016.05.06 20:43:46 - [2143] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: Neadayan Drakhon wrote: Hopefully CCP's dropped it and just doesn't want to admit it. Telling us they dropped it in that case would eb the best PR move of the whole ordeal possible. They are either blind to it or just working on a different implementation and keeping silent while it's still being modified. Or it's going along with no change at all and just currently disabled from SiSi for :reasons:. maybe they are just going to stealth it in with some other update :/ Citadel worm hole tax
Sgt Ocker Kenshin. DARKNESS. 944	Posted - 2016.05.06 23:18:28 - [2144] - Quote Axhind wrote: Design goal is to pad numbers as CCP probably has financial difficulties as usual. The idea that numbers are down just due to the queue change and not due to jump fatigue, fozzie sov and rest of the "eve is all about small gang PvP" design goals is absurd. It's obvious from the recent numbers that eve players care about large scale drama and fighting and not about insignificant 5v5 fights that means jack **** in the grand scheme of things. Introducing dailies will pad the numbers for a bit until people start burning out. Remember that most EVE players are not 12 y.o. with infinite amounts of free space but people with jobs and families which means not everyone can play every single day. Punishing those of your players who are actually ones with RL money (the money that CCP needs to finance all their pipe dreams) in effort to go after the demographic that has always been free of RL money is suicidal. If they want people to login then provide conflict drivers and go away from the idiotic meta of everyone lives in perfectly safe NPC low sec stations. Kick out PL, NC., Imperium and russians back into 0.0. Force us to fight for real. Ofc that means that citadels would have to start working properly and that they will have to nerf the NPC stations into the ground not to mention that should probably involve citadels in only player 0.0 being allowed to accept supers and titans for docking and mooring. If 0.0 space is so big a conflict driver and worth having - Why did Gons just recently pick up and run to lowsec instead of fighting when they were attacked by numbers they could easily match in most cases.. There were whole engagements (not fights, just stupid time wasting 2,000 man fleets) where Gons no Co just failed to turn up. There is nothing in or about 0.0 worth fighting for - Unless you want to become a giant care bare alliance that docks up every time a small gang roams by. You are right about one thing though - Fozzie Sov is too grindy and painful to do latest "war" (if you want to give it more credit than is due) should have been enough for CCP to rethink the whole sov thing, they won't. Fatigue and Jump ranges - Devs weren't happy with fixing a presumed issue - They had to turn it into a punishing experience for everyone involved moving via cynos jump bridges etc. With a well thought mechanic, instead of "punish, punish punish" those changes could have led to positive change - Instead we have everyone packed into a tiny area of space (lowsec) competing for kills on travel fit supers and titans. Which will get worse now with the latest punishments Devs thought up to inflict on the players base who like (or used to like) capital fights. The same dominating capital groups will dominate - Simply because "again" Devs have designed a meta around N+1 being the best option. Why would you use a titan when 10 dreads are cheaper and more effective - Why would you bring carriers, when dreads and subcaps are far more effective (unless you have double or triple what the group your fighting has). Like I've said all through the Citadel production (all its been really is a show, nothing about how capitals are used changes).. What is the point of "re-balancing" capitals, if use cases don't change. Devs good intentions combined with lack of foresight and innovation have left us with????????? My opinions are mine. If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
ACESsiggy The Scope 50	Posted - 2016.05.07 04:41:53 - [2145] - Quote Been cool if this was live during this promotional period on Steam. GÇ£The open-minded see the truth in different things: the narrow-minded see only the differences.GÇ¥
Indahmawar Fazmarai 5179	Posted - 2016.05.07 07:33:12 - [2146] - Quote Sgt Ocker wrote: Axhind wrote: Design goal is to pad numbers as CCP probably has financial difficulties as usual. The idea that numbers are down just due to the queue change and not due to jump fatigue, fozzie sov and rest of the "eve is all about small gang PvP" design goals is absurd. It's obvious from the recent numbers that eve players care about large scale drama and fighting and not about insignificant 5v5 fights that means jack **** in the grand scheme of things. Introducing dailies will pad the numbers for a bit until people start burning out. Remember that most EVE players are not 12 y.o. with infinite amounts of free space but people with jobs and families which means not everyone can play every single day. Punishing those of your players who are actually ones with RL money (the money that CCP needs to finance all their pipe dreams) in effort to go after the demographic that has always been free of RL money is suicidal. If they want people to login then provide conflict drivers and go away from the idiotic meta of everyone lives in perfectly safe NPC low sec stations. Kick out PL, NC., Imperium and russians back into 0.0. Force us to fight for real. Ofc that means that citadels would have to start working properly and that they will have to nerf the NPC stations into the ground not to mention that should probably involve citadels in only player 0.0 being allowed to accept supers and titans for docking and mooring. If 0.0 space is so big a conflict driver and worth having - Why did Gons just recently pick up and run to lowsec instead of fighting when they were attacked by numbers they could easily match in most cases.. There were whole engagements (not fights, just stupid time wasting 2,000 man fleets) where Gons no Co just failed to turn up. There is nothing in or about 0.0 worth fighting for - Unless you want to become a giant care bare alliance that docks up every time a small gang roams by. You are right about one thing though - Fozzie Sov is too grindy and painful to do latest "war" (if you want to give it more credit than is due) should have been enough for CCP to rethink the whole sov thing, they won't. Fatigue and Jump ranges - Devs weren't happy with fixing a presumed issue - They had to turn it into a punishing experience for everyone involved moving via cynos jump bridges etc. With a well thought mechanic, instead of "punish, punish punish" those changes could have led to positive change - Instead we have everyone packed into a tiny area of space (lowsec) competing for kills on travel fit supers and titans. Which will get worse now with the latest punishments Devs thought up to inflict on the players base who like (or used to like) capital fights. The same dominating capital groups will dominate - Simply because "again" Devs have designed a meta around N+1 being the best option. Why would you use a titan when 10 dreads are cheaper and more effective - Why would you bring carriers, when dreads and subcaps are far more effective (unless you have double or triple what the group your fighting has). Like I've said all through the Citadel production (all its been really is a show, nothing about how capitals are used changes).. What is the point of "re-balancing" capitals, if use cases don't change. Devs good intentions combined with lack of foresight and innovation have left us with????????? The point is that everybody hates the N+1when they're N-1, but also everyone would hate losing if they where N+1 and yet had their ass kicked. "I want to win whether I am outnumbered but outskill them or I am outskilled but outnumber them" can't be balanced versus "I want to win whether I am outskilled but outnumber them or I am outnumbered but outskill them".
Axhind Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation 255	Posted - 2016.05.07 09:48:09 - [2147] - Quote Sgt Ocker wrote: If 0.0 space is so big a conflict driver and worth having - Why did Gons just recently pick up and run to lowsec instead of fighting when they were attacked by numbers they could easily match in most cases.. There were whole engagements (not fights, just stupid time wasting 2,000 man fleets) where Gons no Co just failed to turn up. There is nothing in or about 0.0 worth fighting for - Unless you want to become a giant care bare alliance that docks up every time a small gang roams by. You are right about one thing though - Fozzie Sov is too grindy and painful to do latest "war" (if you want to give it more credit than is due) should have been enough for CCP to rethink the whole sov thing, they won't. Fatigue and Jump ranges - Devs weren't happy with fixing a presumed issue - They had to turn it into a punishing experience for everyone involved moving via cynos jump bridges etc. With a well thought mechanic, instead of "punish, punish punish" those changes could have led to positive change - Instead we have everyone packed into a tiny area of space (lowsec) competing for kills on travel fit supers and titans. Which will get worse now with the latest punishments Devs thought up to inflict on the players base who like (or used to like) capital fights. The same dominating capital groups will dominate - Simply because "again" Devs have designed a meta around N+1 being the best option. Why would you use a titan when 10 dreads are cheaper and more effective - Why would you bring carriers, when dreads and subcaps are far more effective (unless you have double or triple what the group your fighting has). Like I've said all through the Citadel production (all its been really is a show, nothing about how capitals are used changes).. What is the point of "re-balancing" capitals, if use cases don't change. Devs good intentions combined with lack of foresight and innovation have left us with????????? I said that big fights is what pulls people in and makes them want to login. Numbers were down because CCP has had this idiotic idea that EVE is all about small gang fights (or rather ganks). With the idea of boosting small gangs running around ganking ratters. Sadly that kind of gameplay is boring as **** for the target. PvE is already bad and if you have to pay attention ever second not to get ganked by elite pvp crowd being boosted by fozzie and co then might as well do missions in perfect safety of high sec. We moved to low sec (just like NC. and PL did long time ago) because the stuff that is in NPC station is perfectly safe, there is absolutely no way to attack that station and in low sec there are no bombs nor bubbles. At the same time in 0.0 player stations you are constantly at risk of disabled services (like horde found out several time) and the station being taken with your stuff stuck there. Devs that are working on capital changes are quite heavy on former PL players so you can be sure that titans will not be bad, nor are they bad right now. Pl and NC. have a lot more than anyone else which means they can run around in them. True it's a bit more dangerous right now as we can counter drop dreads but that would most likely end up with a lot of dead dreads and perhaps a few FAXes. Titans supported by FAXes are the end game right now. You have to hold reps until DDs remove the hostile dreads and if the dreads go after FAXes that's fine too. Basically the jump fatigue was put it to avoid dog piles (one of the reasons PL and pets lost B-R) while the more elegant solution would have been to just have a timer for jump in. Once you arrive at the gate of a TiDi system and jump it puts you into the system when the internal, slowed down, clock reaches your time. That way a big fight doesn't get instant reinforcements which gives local groups a chance to out number people locally and get out before reinforcements move in. As to citadels they are still useless for staging and living out as they can't compete with perfect safety of NPC low sec stations that offer all the important services. CCP will have to nerf the crap out of those and probably force cloak logout of supers/titans if in low sec to make players even think about living in 0.0 again. As to fozzie sov that is just giant clusterfuck. Attacking is stupidly easy, literally a single ship is enough, while defence takes a lot more effort (you don't know that it's a single ship). Trolling defenders is the best way to take sov as they will all be quitting EVE after a few months of responding to a single fast cloaky attacker. Now that we have lost most of our space perhaps CCP will change it to be more like citadels with minimum needed DPS (citadels need higher minimum as well) to force the attacker to risk things just like the defender. That way dominion was far better as you actually had to at least risk the SBUs and even shooting an SBU is a lot more engaging than watching someone orbit a node with the jesus laser.
Mizhir TURN LEFT 74769	Posted - 2016.05.07 11:20:13 - [2148] - Quote Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote: Mizhir wrote: Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote: 106 pages later, I still have to read a proposal on how to incentivize login in each day without a daily reward or penalty for login in. That is because you have tunnelvision on this and think that making players log in daily will fix CCP's problems. While we are overall against any time based login incentives I have seen a few proposals on how to soften it up so you have the opportunity to either partially or fully catch up if you have been away for a few days. It could be that they change it to weekly opportunities instead of dailies or make the dailies "pool up" to a certain extend so if you haven't done them for a few days they are still available when you do log in. The best would still be CCP actually respecting the needs of their players and let the players decide how they will play the game and instead focusing on making interesting content. Interresting content = more players playing. Even small mini events (like the easter one) have seemed to have a positive influence on log in count so small random events could be an easy way for CCP to boost the login sligthly. Some of it could even be tied with the lore and other things going on in the game. Oh really? Are you even remotely aware on how many bloody years I've been saying the same? And now CCP is late. See, I don't mind pennies from heaven.This is why I want this idea to be released. But it's too late. It wil not work that well and is not what the game needs. CCP is late. They can't finish the Rubicon Plan before being run over by the backlog of neglected playstyles. They really should had made Rubicon a Plan for everyone and not a Plan for the chosen few. CCP may have put more effort into Null and Lowsec content, but they have never given them an SP advantage. They made the SP system so players could progress no matter what they did or how often they did that. Dailies are gonna change that. I still fail to see how dailies are gonna fix anything for the so called neglected playstyles. It wouldn't make L4 missions more fun. It wouldn't improve the life of a casual highsec miner. It wouldn't give the highsec explorer new stuff to explore. So why annoy the players with this? I would love to see new and interesting PVE content. They have done a few projects (like new hacking, burner missions and all the drifter stuff), but I have honestly no clue about how you make the connection between dailies and improved PVE content. Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote: Ditto. Also, the incentive they are replacing was based on SP: "log in or miss SP because your queue is empty". The difference is that you didn't have to log in every day since it was possible to plan your way out of it. "Going away on a holiday? Put in a long skill and you are fine." Dailies are so inflexible that players have no possibility to plan their way out of it. One Man Crew - Collective Solo PVP - Video is out!
Indahmawar Fazmarai 5179	Posted - 2016.05.07 12:25:08 - [2149] - Quote Mizhir wrote: Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote: Mizhir wrote: Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote: 106 pages later, I still have to read a proposal on how to incentivize login in each day without a daily reward or penalty for login in. That is because you have tunnelvision on this and think that making players log in daily will fix CCP's problems. While we are overall against any time based login incentives I have seen a few proposals on how to soften it up so you have the opportunity to either partially or fully catch up if you have been away for a few days. It could be that they change it to weekly opportunities instead of dailies or make the dailies "pool up" to a certain extend so if you haven't done them for a few days they are still available when you do log in. The best would still be CCP actually respecting the needs of their players and let the players decide how they will play the game and instead focusing on making interesting content. Interresting content = more players playing. Even small mini events (like the easter one) have seemed to have a positive influence on log in count so small random events could be an easy way for CCP to boost the login sligthly. Some of it could even be tied with the lore and other things going on in the game. Oh really? Are you even remotely aware on how many bloody years I've been saying the same? And now CCP is late. See, I don't mind pennies from heaven.This is why I want this idea to be released. But it's too late. It wil not work that well and is not what the game needs. CCP is late. They can't finish the Rubicon Plan before being run over by the backlog of neglected playstyles. They really should had made Rubicon a Plan for everyone and not a Plan for the chosen few. CCP may have put more effort into Null and Lowsec content, but they have never given them an SP advantage. They made the SP system so players could progress no matter what they did or how often they did that. Dailies are gonna change that. I still fail to see how dailies are gonna fix anything for the so called neglected playstyles. It wouldn't make L4 missions more fun. It wouldn't improve the life of a casual highsec miner. It wouldn't give the highsec explorer new stuff to explore. So why annoy the players with this? I would love to see new and interesting PVE content. They have done a few projects (like new hacking, burner missions and all the drifter stuff), but I have honestly no clue about how you make the connection between dailies and improved PVE content. Jesus, I may be explaining myself terribly. Sesame Street mode: "I want more Apples, but CCP doesn't gives Apples" "CCP gives Grapes, I hate fruits, Grapes are terrible, all Fruits are terrible" "Well, they're not Apples, I sorely miss Apples, but Grapes are a kind of Fruit" "But Grapes don't fix the Apples issue! And they're Fruit and Fruit is terrible for EVE!" "That's why I say CCP is damn late on the Fruit matter, but anyway I appreciate the Grapes"
Solhild Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 2000	Posted - 2016.05.08 14:22:40 - [2150] - Quote Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote: Mizhir wrote: Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote: Mizhir wrote: Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote: 106 pages later, I still have to read a proposal on how to incentivize login in each day without a daily reward or penalty for login in. That is because you have tunnelvision on this and think that making players log in daily will fix CCP's problems. While we are overall against any time based login incentives I have seen a few proposals on how to soften it up so you have the opportunity to either partially or fully catch up if you have been away for a few days. It could be that they change it to weekly opportunities instead of dailies or make the dailies "pool up" to a certain extend so if you haven't done them for a few days they are still available when you do log in. The best would still be CCP actually respecting the needs of their players and let the players decide how they will play the game and instead focusing on making interesting content. Interresting content = more players playing. Even small mini events (like the easter one) have seemed to have a positive influence on log in count so small random events could be an easy way for CCP to boost the login sligthly. Some of it could even be tied with the lore and other things going on in the game. Oh really? Are you even remotely aware on how many bloody years I've been saying the same? And now CCP is late. See, I don't mind pennies from heaven.This is why I want this idea to be released. But it's too late. It wil not work that well and is not what the game needs. CCP is late. They can't finish the Rubicon Plan before being run over by the backlog of neglected playstyles. They really should had made Rubicon a Plan for everyone and not a Plan for the chosen few. CCP may have put more effort into Null and Lowsec content, but they have never given them an SP advantage. They made the SP system so players could progress no matter what they did or how often they did that. Dailies are gonna change that. I still fail to see how dailies are gonna fix anything for the so called neglected playstyles. It wouldn't make L4 missions more fun. It wouldn't improve the life of a casual highsec miner. It wouldn't give the highsec explorer new stuff to explore. So why annoy the players with this? I would love to see new and interesting PVE content. They have done a few projects (like new hacking, burner missions and all the drifter stuff), but I have honestly no clue about how you make the connection between dailies and improved PVE content. Jesus, I may be explaining myself terribly. Let's talk about fruits as an analogy: "I want more Apples, but CCP doesn't gives Apples" "Now CCP gives Grapes, I hate fruits, Grapes are terrible, all Fruits are terrible" "Well, they're not Apples, I sorely miss Apples, but Grapes are a kind of Fruit" "But Grapes don't fix the Apples issue! And they're Fruit and Fruit is terrible for EVE!" "That's why I say CCP is damn late on the Fruit matter, but anyway I appreciate the Grapes" Interesting. I'd prefer if CCP allowed us to buy wine with our Aurum and completely kept out of the fruit market for ever. If you want Apples, play another game as the Apples will wreck this one!
El Burt La Famille Larouche 0	Posted - 2016.05.08 21:21:06 - [2151] - Quote This change isn't targeted at people login in or not everyday. CCP cannot care less about them, they already subscribed. It is targeted at converting trials into subscribers and keeping new subscribers invested in. Content in EVE is gated by both ISK and SP. You earn ISK by actually playing the game, that's 100% what a game should be. SP on the other hand is earned out of thin air, over time, by queuing skills, therefore SP is balanced around hours, days, weeks. It ends up trolling early adopters into safe repetitive activities. Repetitiveness and lack of diversity/originality aside, most new players end up doing security missions and after 21/30 days, it hasn't changed, they still cannot risk losing their ship. They leave. New players can Mine, but who would? You ain't doing anything, there are no game mechanics. Play the market? Sure, but how many people want to play a market simulator? Courier, but you don't drive in EVE you click a button, again not fun to play. Two words: truck, simulator. Explore, unfortunately it's not worth it in high-sec. PvE (security mission), which they end up doing for maybe a week or two until they quit for a better game. New players can't PvP. Outside noob fleets, they can't. You can't roam low-sec with a T1 ship and expect to survive. Which is the major issue here. Call me crazy, but you shouldn't lose anything but your cargo in HighSec, everything but your ship and implants in LowSec. You trolls won't like this idea, since most of you are grumpy old men set in their ways, but this would bring the PvP you all have been crying about for years. This game has so many flaws, its worse being its oblivious community.
Moac Tor Cyber Core Stain Confederation 512	Posted - 2016.05.09 00:21:38 - [2152] - Quote Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Frostys Virpio wrote: Neadayan Drakhon wrote: Hopefully CCP's dropped it and just doesn't want to admit it. Telling us they dropped it in that case would eb the best PR move of the whole ordeal possible. They are either blind to it or just working on a different implementation and keeping silent while it's still being modified. Or it's going along with no change at all and just currently disabled from SiSi for :reasons:. maybe they are just going to stealth it in with some other update :/ I'm glad we haven't heard anything on this for a while now, although my guess is that CCP is iterating on the idea, although I would be very happy if they have decided to drop it altogether. Bear in mind what they did with skill injectors, they got the initial wave of mass negative feedback, and then a couple of months later when everyone thought they had dropped them came back with the feature ready to go live in the next patch. Modulated ECM Effects An Alternative to Skill Trading
Malcaz Caldari Provisions Caldari State 43	Posted - 2016.05.09 07:17:23 - [2153] - Quote Personally don't care enough about 300k SP a month to do this. What this will do though is get people to compulsively log in routinely every day just to kill one npc ship and then log off. I don't think that will make people enjoy the game more.
Axhind Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation 255	Posted - 2016.05.09 08:47:16 - [2154] - Quote El Burt wrote: This change isn't targeted at people login in or not everyday. CCP cannot care less about them, they already subscribed. It is targeted at converting trials into subscribers and keeping new subscribers invested in. Content in EVE is gated by both ISK and SP. You earn ISK by actually playing the game, that's 100% what a game should be. SP on the other hand is earned out of thin air, over time, by queuing skills, therefore SP is balanced around hours, days, weeks. It ends up trolling early adopters into safe repetitive activities. Repetitiveness and lack of diversity/originality aside, most new players end up doing security missions and after 21/30 days, it hasn't changed, they still cannot risk losing their ship. They leave. New players can Mine, but who would? You ain't doing anything, there are no game mechanics. Play the market? Sure, but how many people want to play a market simulator? Courier, but you don't drive in EVE you click a button, again not fun to play. Two words: truck, simulator. Explore, unfortunately it's not worth it in high-sec. PvE (security mission), which they end up doing for maybe a week or two until they quit for a better game. New players can't PvP. Outside noob fleets, they can't. You can't roam low-sec with a T1 ship and expect to survive. Which is the major issue here. Call me crazy, but you shouldn't lose anything but your cargo in HighSec, everything but your ship and implants in LowSec. You trolls won't like this idea, since most of you are grumpy old men set in their ways, but this would bring the PvP you all have been crying about for years. This game has so many flaws, its worse being its oblivious community. How about you go play hello kitty and leave us alone? Theme park MMOs are failing across the board. They get some popularity in the beginning and then people get tired of it. One of the reasons why EVE survives, despite CCPs efforts to kill it off lately, is because things matter and there are almost always some goals and things to do. If you remove loss then you just made an arcade game that costs 15Gé¼ per month which will hardly compare favourably to many other similar games that are for free. EVE is a unique game and should stay that way. It showed growth for 10 years and started dropping numbers first when CCP went on the the whole "small gang PvP without any consequences is only thing that matters" tangent.
Mizhir TURN LEFT 74778	Posted - 2016.05.09 10:51:08 - [2155] - Quote El Burt wrote: This change isn't targeted at people login in or not everyday. CCP cannot care less about them, they already subscribed. It is targeted at converting trials into subscribers and keeping new subscribers invested in. Content in EVE is gated by both ISK and SP. You earn ISK by actually playing the game, that's 100% what a game should be. SP on the other hand is earned out of thin air, over time, by queuing skills, therefore SP is balanced around hours, days, weeks. It ends up trolling early adopters into safe repetitive activities. Repetitiveness and lack of diversity/originality aside, most new players end up doing security missions and after 21/30 days, it hasn't changed, they still cannot risk losing their ship. They leave. New players can Mine, but who would? You ain't doing anything, there are no game mechanics. Play the market? Sure, but how many people want to play a market simulator? Courier, but you don't drive in EVE you click a button, again not fun to play. Two words: truck, simulator. Explore, unfortunately it's not worth it in high-sec. PvE (security mission), which they end up doing for maybe a week or two until they quit for a better game. New players can't PvP. Outside noob fleets, they can't. You can't roam low-sec with a T1 ship and expect to survive. Which is the major issue here. Call me crazy, but you shouldn't lose anything but your cargo in HighSec, everything but your ship and implants in LowSec. You trolls won't like this idea, since most of you are grumpy old men set in their ways, but this would bring the PvP you all have been crying about for years. This game has so many flaws, its worse being its oblivious community. CCP Rise has stated that this isn't aimed at newbies. It is aimed at making the login counts higher. Nothing more, nothing less. If they want to improve it for newbies then they should make things that are aimed for newbies which we have repeated over and over in this thread. Dailies wouldn't make newbies enjoy the game. Sure they may stay for a bit longer but if dailies are the only thing that keeps them in the game they will just leave when they inevitably gets burned out by it. I would love to see mechanics that gives newbies a good start in the game. But the most important thing is not SP or ISK. It is learning the game. So an improved NPE which gives them the opportunity to try different aspects of the game and learn how to do it while rewarding SP and the nescessary ships would be far more superior than dailies ever would. As it would: Teach them the game Let them try out different parts of the game they initially haven't though about and likewise give them the little push needed to try out things they are afraid to try (like pvp) It would mean that only newbies would benefit from it. Adding a SP cap would mean it can't just be farmed for SP for old chars and likewise vets like me can't just use it for making new alts without having to spend time on going through all the steps. Regarding your list of things that newbies can or can't do: I call bullsh*t on that. See one of my previous replies: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=6464762#post6464762 So no. It is not about grumpy old men being scared of newbies. It is about keeping the game free of the most obvious and stupid iteration of Skinner's box. Newbies are welcome and important to the game. I don't mind if they start out much better than I did. One Man Crew - Collective Solo PVP - Video is out!
Matthew en Thielles Matthew en Thielles' magical tax haven 0	Posted - 2016.05.09 11:33:58 - [2156] - Quote El Burt wrote: This change isn't targeted at people login in or not everyday. CCP cannot care less about them, they already subscribed. It is targeted at converting trials into subscribers and keeping new subscribers invested in. Content in EVE is gated by both ISK and SP. You earn ISK by actually playing the game, that's 100% what a game should be. SP on the other hand is earned out of thin air, over time, by queuing skills, therefore SP is balanced around hours, days, weeks. It ends up trolling early adopters into safe repetitive activities. Repetitiveness and lack of diversity/originality aside, most new players end up doing security missions and after 21/30 days, it hasn't changed, they still cannot risk losing their ship. They leave. This game has so many flaws, its worse being its oblivious community. hate on this guy all you want, he has some valid points. it doesn't matter that it's a feature designed to generate logins, that 10000 sp is worth infinitely more to a 10000 sp character than it is to a 60 mil sp one. that means this is a good feature for noobs. Personally, i still get every single SP i would have even if i don't log in. literally nothing changes, except i now get the chance to get 10000 sp every day i do log on, for nothing more than killing a rat? when was the last time you logged in, and played a whole session, and didn't come across a single rat that you could just shoot on your way past? They spawn on low and nulsec gates! In every asteroid belt, eploration site and mission. this is no hassle for me, or i imagine, for any player that flys spaceships around in space with guns fitted. I would like to see this expanded into the other professions though, and not limited to killing rats, you know, hack a can, mine a rock, place a buy/sell order or something. that way you won't even need to have guns fitted. I'm excited to see it land, though ******* command ships might actually get trained for eventually now that i can shave some time off damn warfare link specialisations.
Mizhir TURN LEFT 74779	Posted - 2016.05.09 12:21:51 - [2157] - Quote Matthew en Thielles wrote: El Burt wrote: This change isn't targeted at people login in or not everyday. CCP cannot care less about them, they already subscribed. It is targeted at converting trials into subscribers and keeping new subscribers invested in. Content in EVE is gated by both ISK and SP. You earn ISK by actually playing the game, that's 100% what a game should be. SP on the other hand is earned out of thin air, over time, by queuing skills, therefore SP is balanced around hours, days, weeks. It ends up trolling early adopters into safe repetitive activities. Repetitiveness and lack of diversity/originality aside, most new players end up doing security missions and after 21/30 days, it hasn't changed, they still cannot risk losing their ship. They leave. This game has so many flaws, its worse being its oblivious community. hate on this guy all you want, he has some valid points. it doesn't matter that it's a feature designed to generate logins, that 10000 sp is worth infinitely more to a 10000 sp character than it is to a 60 mil sp one. that means this is a good feature for noobs. That is under the assumption that the newbies log in most days. Otherwise they would gain less SP from this than the people who log in every day. While it may be a little help for newbies it causes many other issues in the game. So I would much rather see a system that gives a larger boost to newbies and then let the rest of us enjoy a game without dailies. One Man Crew - Collective Solo PVP - Video is out!
Raging Bull Unchained Einheit X-6 378	Posted - 2016.05.09 12:28:42 - [2158] - Quote I heared (well - listened and talked with veterans) that it-¦s not uncommon (it seems) that those vets got moer then 1 account. It looked like those old people got more accounts in total then are active. Maybe it-¦s a try to get those old alt-accounts reactivated? Like in: It-¦s not less ppl that plays eve, it-¦s just less accounts? I don-¦t know the numbers though.
Moac Tor Cyber Core Stain Confederation 514	Posted - 2016.05.09 12:54:05 - [2159] - Quote Matthew en Thielles wrote: El Burt wrote: This change isn't targeted at people login in or not everyday. CCP cannot care less about them, they already subscribed. It is targeted at converting trials into subscribers and keeping new subscribers invested in. Content in EVE is gated by both ISK and SP. You earn ISK by actually playing the game, that's 100% what a game should be. SP on the other hand is earned out of thin air, over time, by queuing skills, therefore SP is balanced around hours, days, weeks. It ends up trolling early adopters into safe repetitive activities. Repetitiveness and lack of diversity/originality aside, most new players end up doing security missions and after 21/30 days, it hasn't changed, they still cannot risk losing their ship. They leave. This game has so many flaws, its worse being its oblivious community. hate on this guy all you want, he has some valid points. Most of what he said was irrelevant. This proposal clearly isn't aimed at new player retention as Rise has even stated himself. So rather than hating him I regard his point as simply irrelevant to the discussion. CCP Ghost will hopefully give us some decent features to solve the player retention issue, and it has nothing to do with introducing dailies. Modulated ECM Effects An Alternative to Skill Trading
Sgt Ocker Kenshin. DARKNESS. 948	Posted - 2016.05.09 13:32:05 - [2160] - Quote Raging Bull Unchained wrote: I heared (well - listened and talked with veterans) that it-¦s not uncommon (it seems) that those vets got moer then 1 account. It looked like those old people got more accounts in total then are active. Maybe it-¦s a try to get those old alt-accounts reactivated? Like in: It-¦s not less ppl that plays eve, it-¦s just less accounts? I don-¦t know the numbers though. The game has changed a lot over the last few years - Many of the older players with lots of accounts no longer need those accounts due to changes in how the game now works. Offering basically free SP with dailies is not going to encourage those players to start using them again, there is no need for them. Up until recently I ran 11 accounts with a total of 28 characters, in 3 days this one expires and is not being subbed again as all it has been used for in the last year is a forum alt. I no longer wish to pay CCP for a forum alt and it is of little use to me otherwise, dailies or not. That leaves me with 3 active accounts, 7 characters in all, 4 of which are somewhat useful. Daily "opportunities won't get me to resub - But CCP giving us the opportunity for some real content might. What will make Eve great again? Fix the "everything is disposable" design - Everything Destructible is great - Doing it by making things disposable isn't.. (When players start blowing up their own capitals for the insurance payout - There is something drastically wrong with their current design) Fix Sov so it is worth owning - Get rid of the painful pointless grind > Shooting a TCU for hours with bombers was not all that different to what we have now. Only real difference is, now you have to fly around a whole constellation shooting lots of little structures instead of just one big one. And worse, your often doing it alone as there is no need for "a fleet". Entosis links = Boring, tedious grinding. Jump ranges and Fatigue need to be looked at again and fixed in a way they should have been originally - This "might" encourage a few of the large lowsec groups to venture into nul. As it stand now, they won't simply because moving is a long drawn out pain in the *** and once there, there is no-one to fight without another slow, tedious, punishing move. The reason all the large capital groups live in lowsec is jump ranges and fatigue - What self respecting capital group wants to live in nulsec where there is just no use for capitals? Why would you leave lowsec when with such limited jump ranges and fatigue combined gives you so many easily reachable targets. If Devs looked at their so precious metrics, they would see, what is happening now is not good long term for Eve or players. There has been many good alternatives to what we have now posted in many threads - Try thinking outside the "punishing players is good" box. -- - -- - -- - -- - -- The Goon war has fizzled out, with a flicker and a very small bang. Citadel's right now offer little as most of those being built are also being destroyed before even being fit out (Devs new "everything disposable" design at its best).. I'd expect to start seeing online numbers decline again pretty soon as there really isn't anything to entice players to continue to log in. Aside from the "everything requires N+1" meta, Eve doesn't have much going for it right now. And N+1 is pretty boring if you belong to a smaller group..... Sorry for the long winded response, hope it helps understand why "dailies" won't effect players with unsubbed alts. My opinions are mine. If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
NotTheSmartestCookie new order logistics CODE. 128	Posted - 2016.05.10 07:55:30 - [2161] - Quote This thread is verging wildly off topic, which probably means that every argument has already been repeated ad nauseam. A small vocal minority is strongly opposed while most EVE players would probably go "free stuff, gimme", if they could be bothered to express an opinion at all. Daily opportunities are cool with me. Would be better if the system was "once per downtime". This would allow people to feel all warm and smug that they can game the system by performing the daily twice around a single downtime, while CCP would still be "yeah, press that shiny button in our Skinner box". Making New Eden a better place 8 rounds of Void at a time. Funny, smartest, pretty and relevant. Pick 3. Proud shareholder in Halaima MinerBumping
Yana Shakti Tronhadar 32	Posted - 2016.05.10 08:00:26 - [2162] - Quote I agree with pretty much everything Sgt Ocker (two posts above) said. Here are some other reasons why this is a bad idea: (1) The proposal tries to solve a problem that doesn't exist. Log-in numbers are going up (not down) ... and this as a result of better content development over the past year or two. Suggestion: keep on with the game development and drop the gimick. (2) The proposal undermines and disrupts creativity, individuality and the immersive experience. Many people, myself included, have specialized toons each with a very distinctive feel and set of habits: one does this, one does that... The areas of operations seldom overlap. Forcing everyone to log in every toon to mine some veldspar one day, then sell a sprocket the next day, etc. etc. has the potential to artificially reduce the game's complexity to a series of mechanical tasks. For context, compare this with how undergraduates are rewarded for their work. You can reward students for doing individual, creative reserach (say, by setting term papers). Or you can reward them for meaningless micro-tasks: using a pen one day, opening a book the next day, using the shift key on their laptop the day after that. And so on. My guess is that the students who are rewarded for personal creativity rather than for micro-actions will be better off for it. Just think of which classroom you'd rather be in. Much the same applies to creative sandbox games. (3) This reward system is already available in other MMOGs. If we wanted to be part of that we'd quit EVE and play those. Bottom line: EVE is what many of us do at the end of the workday to relax. It's supposed to be what we make it: entertaining and open-ended. The last thing I want to do at the end of the day is to log into another 'job' that 'pays' me for meaningless tasks set by a virtual middle-manager. I come to EVE to be free not to be condescended to. Stop it.
Lan Wang Knights of the Posing Meat FETID 2803	Posted - 2016.05.10 08:08:27 - [2163] - Quote Matthew en Thielles wrote: [quote=El Burt]when was the last time you logged in, and played a whole session, and didn't come across a single rat that you could just shoot on your way past? quite a while as i dont shoot the rats in my area, rp and all that FETID now recruiting pvp pilots & corporations \| lowsec pvp & piracy - Join FETID Loyalist to Angel Cartel & Serpentis
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 2819	Posted - 2016.05.10 12:01:49 - [2164] - Quote Lan Wang wrote: Matthew en Thielles wrote: [quote=El Burt]when was the last time you logged in, and played a whole session, and didn't come across a single rat that you could just shoot on your way past? quite a while as i dont shoot the rats in my area, rp and all that If you decide to roleplay with enough self imposed rules that you miss out on something, that's not CCP's fault. You set those rule yourself.
Lan Wang Knights of the Posing Meat FETID 2803	Posted - 2016.05.10 12:17:38 - [2165] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: Lan Wang wrote: Matthew en Thielles wrote: [quote=El Burt]when was the last time you logged in, and played a whole session, and didn't come across a single rat that you could just shoot on your way past? quite a while as i dont shoot the rats in my area, rp and all that If you decide to roleplay with enough self imposed rules that you miss out on something, that's not CCP's fault. You set those rule yourself. thanks, you just confirmed that my style of play is being penalised by not following what ccp want me to do, even though i login for atleast 3 hours everyday and create my own content and do pvp instead of killing a rat FETID now recruiting pvp pilots & corporations \| lowsec pvp & piracy - Join FETID Loyalist to Angel Cartel & Serpentis
Hans Eisenberg 1	Posted - 2016.05.10 12:45:38 - [2166] - Quote Lan Wang wrote: quite a while as i dont shoot the rats in my area, rp and all that I'm shocked and delighted that someone else does this. I've never really told anyone but I don't shoot Angels in my area for exactly this reason. It seems dumb for CCP to undermine our immersion in the game in order to supposedly increase log-ins. The risk is that people who were really into the game and active previously will come to see it as generic and soul-less. Can we maybe make this bonus lp feature a per account rather than per toon thing? That might solve the issue of penalizing rp'ers or at least reduce it.
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 2819	Posted - 2016.05.10 12:50:03 - [2167] - Quote Lan Wang wrote: Frostys Virpio wrote: Lan Wang wrote: Matthew en Thielles wrote: [quote=El Burt]when was the last time you logged in, and played a whole session, and didn't come across a single rat that you could just shoot on your way past? quite a while as i dont shoot the rats in my area, rp and all that If you decide to roleplay with enough self imposed rules that you miss out on something, that's not CCP's fault. You set those rule yourself. thanks, you just confirmed that my style of play is being penalised by not following what ccp want me to do, even though i login for atleast 3 hours everyday and create my own content and do pvp instead of killing a rat You are not penalized, you choose to opt out by setting rules for yourself.
Lan Wang Knights of the Posing Meat FETID 2805	Posted - 2016.05.10 13:01:13 - [2168] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: You are not penalized, you choose to opt out by setting rules for yourself. lets not call it setting rules as such, its a sandbox that we are suppose to create our own story/content, kind of ruins my story and my own immersion while im flying around shooting the very faction i support just to get 10k sp that ccp encourage me to do, ill say it again, even though i login everyday and roam in space daily. everyone who doesn't do this mass number budge that ccp want is being penalised, its nothing more than half thoughtout incentive aimed at a certain type of playstyle while ignoring every other playstyle. FETID now recruiting pvp pilots & corporations \| lowsec pvp & piracy - Join FETID Loyalist to Angel Cartel & Serpentis
Sgt Ocker Kenshin. DARKNESS. 955	Posted - 2016.05.11 22:13:21 - [2169] - Quote Lan Wang wrote: Frostys Virpio wrote: You are not penalized, you choose to opt out by setting rules for yourself. lets not call it setting rules as such, its a sandbox that we are suppose to create our own story/content, kind of ruins my story and my own immersion while im flying around shooting the very faction i support just to get 10k sp that ccp encourage me to do, ill say it again, even though i login everyday and roam in space daily. everyone who doesn't do this mass number budge that ccp want is being penalised, its nothing more than half thoughtout incentive aimed at a certain type of playstyle while ignoring every other playstyle. Isn't that the case with most of what CCP does? Changing the way people choose to play the game has been CCP's design focus for several years now. It has been a wild success - Ganking has never been more prolific (in all parts of space not just highsec), N+1 is the favorite meta and now dedicated RP'rs are being told they play the game the wrong way. Frostys - How about Devs introduce a daily where shooting a Goon gave you free SP. I know wrong people to ask, Goons don't mind Awoxing, it is part of their play style. But for others shooting a friend, even an npc one, is not something they should be forced to do to satisfy CCP's lack of imagination and poor attempts to boost numbers. No-one but the bank cares that you can get 10,000 more people to login for 5 minutes a day with "Daily Opportunities" and if your bank manager is smart enough, he too will see it for what it is and pay it no mind. Turning Eve into a "one play style fits all" is going to see lots of things change - Especially the lifespan of Eve.. Once it is fully, "just another game" it then has a limited life span, just like any other game. Spin that credit card - And as a bonus we'll give you a couple of worthless, look just like everything else (boring and not really anything to do with Eve) sets of clothes, that aren't worth anything to sell and certainly aren't suitable for a pirate scum bag to wear. 13 years and CCP know less about their game, those who play it and how it is played than they did the week before it was released - And the worst thing is, they don't care...... My opinions are mine. If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Tiddle Jr Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 854	Posted - 2016.05.12 02:07:42 - [2170] - Quote Let's wait for another couple of years and see if this game would turn into p2w grinding boredome or CCPGAMES finally get read of seagull rise and fozzie and couple of more and get back to the roots. "The message is that there are known knowns. There are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say there are things that we now know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know" - CCP
elitatwo Eve Minions O.U.Z.O. Alliance 1194	Posted - 2016.05.12 02:14:14 - [2171] - Quote Chores have been deleted from the current SiSi build, there might be hope after all. Eve Minions is recruiting. Learn from about pvp, learn about ships and how to fly them correctly. Small gang and solo action in high, low and nullsec and w-space alike. We will teach you everything you need and want to know.
Jeremiah Saken The Fall of Leviathan 568	Posted - 2016.05.12 14:59:10 - [2172] - Quote Few links about dailies to get some perspective: Dailies on fanfest 1 Dailies on fanfest 2 CZ about dailies I am the 85%
Ellieko Vox Vox Production Industries 0	Posted - 2016.05.12 15:37:36 - [2173] - Quote You all know how to fix this right? Just simply don't pay for your account until they say they realize it's a f******stupid idea and drop it. This is called 'Vote with your wallet'and if done properly can have amazing results. But if everyone simply thinks of themselves and not the greater good of the future of the game, then nothing will happen because no one will will refuse to drop their account for a few days/weeks. Start Citizen is going to get a major boost in costumers if this turns into space WoW because someone at CCP started reading Korean forms on how to make a 'Click Candy' phone game and call that research. This is just like the 2 party system of the US government.... - 'I have a dumb idea' "Lets put skill injectors in the game." -- 'I can make it worse' "Lets take the one thing that drives people away from a game and put in ours! Then we can offer free skill points for it." Brilliant set of decisions going on here...
Solhild Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 2001	Posted - 2016.05.12 17:39:50 - [2174] - Quote Ellieko Vox wrote: You all know how to fix this right? Just simply don't pay for your account until they say they realize it's a f******stupid idea and drop it. This is called 'Vote with your wallet'and if done properly can have amazing results. But if everyone simply thinks of themselves and not the greater good of the future of the game, then nothing will happen because no one will will refuse to drop their account for a few days/weeks. Start Citizen is going to get a major boost in costumers if this turns into space WoW because someone at CCP started reading Korean forms on how to make a 'Click Candy' phone game and call that research. This is just like the 2 party system of the US government.... - 'I have a dumb idea' "Lets put skill injectors in the game." -- 'I can make it worse' "Lets take the one thing that drives people away from a game and put in ours! Then we can offer free skill points for it." Brilliant set of decisions going on here... What's not to like with this post. Spot on.
Axhind Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation 258	Posted - 2016.05.13 07:46:12 - [2175] - Quote Jeremiah Saken wrote: Few links about dailies to get some perspective: Dailies on fanfest 1 Dailies on fanfest 2 CZ about dailies Those perspectives are full of crap. If CCP actually made a meaningful game people would log in. From the empire building in 0.0 we have gone to living in low sec NPC stations and then faffing around in 0.0 with sov lasers where permanence of everything is just 1 ship away. No amount of dailies is going to counteract the drop in player numbers due to removing unique things in EVE and replacing them with crap from Korean F2P games and theme park MMOs. Seagull and fozzie have destroyed everything that was good about this game. Look at what older devs said and did. They wanted people to build homes and empires in 0.0, the idea was that it would be a vibrant and politically complex region not just a ratting/mining while all important things sit in NPC sov/low sec because you have to be pants on head ******** to stage out of a station that a single ship can take.
Tiddle Jr Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 855	Posted - 2016.05.13 09:19:23 - [2176] - Quote Oh boy... If i would log on to kill rat for a tiny reward why should i do something else? If that's the whole intent, then i would log on to exactly that" SP holy cow" and nothing else since there are things that i've alredy managed to sort out. But if i log on to do many 'entertaining" stuf plus got an option to kill that rat for SP that's a different approach. Unfortunatelly i don't have much of things atract me to log on more often now. "The message is that there are known knowns. There are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say there are things that we now know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know" - CCP
Mara Rinn Cosmic Goo Convertor 5866	Posted - 2016.05.13 17:07:13 - [2177] - Quote I am writing this from Singapore, where my tri-annual Fanfest world tour is coming to an end. I have been travelling and out of game due to not being rich enough to travel to Fanfest and be able to afford a gaming laptop at the same time. So you can imagine my opinion of "daily opportunities". It is basically punishing me to the tune of three or four hours a day of lost skill points, because I decided to attend Fanfest. Over the course of the six weeks that I am away from a gaming PC, I am being punished 168h of skill training time. Here are better ways to get people to log in: Interesting PvE PvE that rewards group play, Incursions have scout sites for example Find ways to encourage socially introverted players to connect with groups of people they like Yeah, that last one is probably a quest for the holy grail. But still a far sight better than punishing people for not logging in and killing an NPC every day. Day 0 Advice for New Players
Jeremiah Saken The Fall of Leviathan 568	Posted - 2016.05.13 17:31:58 - [2178] - Quote Axhind wrote: Jeremiah Saken wrote: Few links about dailies to get some perspective: Dailies on fanfest 1 Dailies on fanfest 2 CZ about dailies Those perspectives are full of crap. If CCP actually made a meaningful game people would log in. From the empire building in 0.0 we have gone to living in low sec NPC stations and then faffing around in 0.0 with sov lasers where permanence of everything is just 1 ship away. No amount of dailies is going to counteract the drop in player numbers due to removing unique things in EVE and replacing them with crap from Korean F2P games and theme park MMOs. Seagull and fozzie have destroyed everything that was good about this game. Look at what older devs said and did. They wanted people to build homes and empires in 0.0, the idea was that it would be a vibrant and politically complex region not just a ratting/mining while all important things sit in NPC sov/low sec because you have to be pants on head ******** to stage out of a station that a single ship can take. I didn't link them because I agree with them. it's good to know what other thought about this "feature". CZ article is interesting. Even Blizzard - the father of all dailies - think they must be changed. It's not, do 100 quests to get 1 mount anymore. CCP don't learn of blizzard mistakes, they want to introduce same cancer it was for so many years in WoW. Boring chore. If it goes online it will be very bad mechnism for new players. 10k SP is not something they can pass on. I have dangerous reflection about this. After watching some panels from his year fanfest I have a confidence that some devs don't know how to read statistcs data. I like what CCP Ghost said. It was also a herold of something bad incoming. Average player log for 2 hours per day. How to get him entertaing for 2 hours? I am the 85%
T-Jay Charante Black Sun Industry and Research 30	Posted - 2016.05.13 18:58:28 - [2179] - Quote Mara Rinn wrote: I am writing this from Singapore, where my tri-annual Fanfest world tour is coming to an end. I have been travelling and out of game due to not being rich enough to travel to Fanfest and be able to afford a gaming laptop at the same time. So you can imagine my opinion of "daily opportunities". It is basically punishing me to the tune of three or four hours a day of lost skill points, because I decided to attend Fanfest. Over the course of the six weeks that I am away from a gaming PC, I am being punished 168h of skill training time. Here are better ways to get people to log in: Interesting PvE PvE that rewards group play, Incursions have scout sites for example Find ways to encourage socially introverted players to connect with groups of people they like Yeah, that last one is probably a quest for the holy grail. But still a far sight better than punishing people for not logging in and killing an NPC every day. I'm sure you jumped into a nice clone, with +5 implants before you left to maximize you skill point gain. Meanwhile, people who play on a daily basis don't have this luxury. You feel punished as you may miss out on 3 or 4 hours training when you don't play the game. How do you feel about the people who lose 3-4 hours training who do play the game every day over ones that log in once or twice a week, do you think this is fair and logical?
Jeremiah Saken The Fall of Leviathan 568	Posted - 2016.05.13 19:15:26 - [2180] - Quote T-Jay Charante wrote: Mara Rinn wrote: I am writing this from Singapore, where my tri-annual Fanfest world tour is coming to an end. I have been travelling and out of game due to not being rich enough to travel to Fanfest and be able to afford a gaming laptop at the same time. So you can imagine my opinion of "daily opportunities". It is basically punishing me to the tune of three or four hours a day of lost skill points, because I decided to attend Fanfest. Over the course of the six weeks that I am away from a gaming PC, I am being punished 168h of skill training time. Here are better ways to get people to log in: Interesting PvE PvE that rewards group play, Incursions have scout sites for example Find ways to encourage socially introverted players to connect with groups of people they like Yeah, that last one is probably a quest for the holy grail. But still a far sight better than punishing people for not logging in and killing an NPC every day. I'm sure you jumped into a nice clone, with +5 implants before you left to maximize you skill point gain. Meanwhile, people who play on a daily basis don't have this luxury. You feel punished as you may miss out on 3 or 4 hours training when you don't play the game. How do you feel about the people who lose 3-4 hours training who do play the game every day over ones that log in once or twice a week, do you think this is fair and logical? So it's Mara Rinn fault that you play longer than her and still can't afford +5 implants? It's sandbox game, at least it was. Don't blame someone else you bad at it. I am the 85%
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 2821	Posted - 2016.05.13 20:03:01 - [2181] - Quote Jeremiah Saken wrote: I like what CCP Ghost said. It was also a herold of something bad incoming. Average player log for 2 hours per day. How to get him entertaing for 2 hours? I think the proposed feature is not meant to fulfill the quoted requirement. The proposed feature looks like a stab in the dark try to get people to log in just like you get people in a store with door crasher prices. Having us play 2 hours per day is a job with multiple part. Getting us to log in is the first step. It might be stupid to do it with a daily but if you look at the people who will feel forced to log in because of it, the feature sure as hell does the first step of getting us to log in. If they want the majority of the account to log in every day, this is probably the surest way to make it happen. It's probably not viable long term but while it last, you can bet people will log in day in day out to get their line of sp.
T-Jay Charante Black Sun Industry and Research 30	Posted - 2016.05.14 03:28:47 - [2182] - Quote Jeremiah Saken wrote: T-Jay Charante wrote: Mara Rinn wrote: I am writing this from Singapore, where my tri-annual Fanfest world tour is coming to an end. I have been travelling and out of game due to not being rich enough to travel to Fanfest and be able to afford a gaming laptop at the same time. So you can imagine my opinion of "daily opportunities". It is basically punishing me to the tune of three or four hours a day of lost skill points, because I decided to attend Fanfest. Over the course of the six weeks that I am away from a gaming PC, I am being punished 168h of skill training time. Here are better ways to get people to log in: Interesting PvE PvE that rewards group play, Incursions have scout sites for example Find ways to encourage socially introverted players to connect with groups of people they like Yeah, that last one is probably a quest for the holy grail. But still a far sight better than punishing people for not logging in and killing an NPC every day. I'm sure you jumped into a nice clone, with +5 implants before you left to maximize you skill point gain. Meanwhile, people who play on a daily basis don't have this luxury. You feel punished as you may miss out on 3 or 4 hours training when you don't play the game. How do you feel about the people who lose 3-4 hours training who do play the game every day over ones that log in once or twice a week, do you think this is fair and logical? So it's Mara Rinn fault that you play longer than her and still can't afford +5 implants? It's sandbox game, at least it was. Don't blame someone else you bad at it. No, I don't understand the logic of people who rarely play 'feeling punished' about missing out on SP when in fact they are gaining more SP than people that play on a daily basis. You expect players who play daily to do chores to afford +5's to get equal to your SP gain, yet you complain about a daily chore.
Mizhir TURN LEFT 74787	Posted - 2016.05.14 10:26:53 - [2183] - Quote T-Jay Charante wrote: Mara Rinn wrote: I am writing this from Singapore, where my tri-annual Fanfest world tour is coming to an end. I have been travelling and out of game due to not being rich enough to travel to Fanfest and be able to afford a gaming laptop at the same time. So you can imagine my opinion of "daily opportunities". It is basically punishing me to the tune of three or four hours a day of lost skill points, because I decided to attend Fanfest. Over the course of the six weeks that I am away from a gaming PC, I am being punished 168h of skill training time. Here are better ways to get people to log in: Interesting PvE PvE that rewards group play, Incursions have scout sites for example Find ways to encourage socially introverted players to connect with groups of people they like Yeah, that last one is probably a quest for the holy grail. But still a far sight better than punishing people for not logging in and killing an NPC every day. I'm sure you jumped into a nice clone, with +5 implants before you left to maximize you skill point gain. Meanwhile, people who play on a daily basis don't have this luxury. You feel punished as you may miss out on 3 or 4 hours training when you don't play the game. How do you feel about the people who lose 3-4 hours training who do play the game every day over ones that log in once or twice a week, do you think this is fair and logical? Dailies give a higher SP boost than +5s implants and a perfect remap. I would prefer CCP to remove / redesign the entire attribute system, since as you pointed out it kinda favours the people whose playstyle doesn't have a high risk of being podded. Either way. One broken system doesn't justify the implementation of another broken system. One Man Crew - Collective Solo PVP - Video is out!
jonmuis Resons Just let it happen 1	Posted - 2016.05.14 13:40:38 - [2184] - Quote so you can do this on all characters, and CCP makes how much off the extra skill extractors? people it's not about "content" it's again about profit. please CCP you don't need to turn this great game into WoW to make more money.
T-Jay Charante Black Sun Industry and Research 30	Posted - 2016.05.14 14:21:19 - [2185] - Quote jonmuis wrote: so you can do this on all characters, and CCP makes how much off the extra skill extractors? people it's not about "content" it's again about profit. please CCP you don't need to turn this great game into WoW to make more money. 1 character per account. Approx 3.5 mill SP per year if you have OCD and do it every day. Whats that, 7 skill extractors a year? CCP milking the customer base for dank profit!!
Shallanna Yassavi Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 168	Posted - 2016.05.14 20:36:43 - [2186] - Quote Axhind wrote: Jeremiah Saken wrote: Few links about dailies to get some perspective: Dailies on fanfest 1 Dailies on fanfest 2 CZ about dailies Those perspectives are full of crap. If CCP actually made a meaningful game people would log in. From the empire building in 0.0 we have gone to living in low sec NPC stations and then faffing around in 0.0 with sov lasers where permanence of everything is just 1 ship away. No amount of dailies is going to counteract the drop in player numbers due to removing unique things in EVE and replacing them with crap from Korean F2P games and theme park MMOs. Seagull and fozzie have destroyed everything that was good about this game. Look at what older devs said and did. They wanted people to build homes and empires in 0.0, the idea was that it would be a vibrant and politically complex region not just a ratting/mining while all important things sit in NPC sov/low sec because you have to be pants on head ******** to stage out of a station that a single ship can take. Blame dailies for everyone mining and ratting all day in null. Two words: sov grind. That mechanism sets up a routine which gets set in peoples' minds and is hard to break out of. Mining and ratting can be multiboxed without difficulty, so that wasn't going to do much for player interaction. And it's supposed to be done... daily. The question of "How many left null because of that?" would be a useful one to ask. A signature :o
Indahmawar Fazmarai 5215	Posted - 2016.05.15 07:15:06 - [2187] - Quote Mara Rinn wrote: I am writing this from Singapore, where my tri-annual Fanfest world tour is coming to an end. I have been travelling and out of game due to not being rich enough to travel to Fanfest and be able to afford a gaming laptop at the same time. So you can imagine my opinion of "daily opportunities". It is basically punishing me to the tune of three or four hours a day of lost skill points, because I decided to attend Fanfest. Over the course of the six weeks that I am away from a gaming PC, I am being punished 168h of skill training time. Here are better ways to get people to log in: Interesting PvE PvE that rewards group play, Incursions have scout sites for example Find ways to encourage socially introverted players to connect with groups of people they like Yeah, that last one is probably a quest for the holy grail. But still a far sight better than punishing people for not logging in and killing an NPC every day. Again. You're not losing SP. You're not earning them. Also you can buy them back. Or could if you didn't lost all that ISK while you didn't play. EVE is such harsh mistress, punishes you for not playing with her. As for making the game more interesting, wake up. CCP thinks that they are doing exactly that with the Rubicon Plan. Neville Smit's 85% may disagree but CCP owes them/you/us nothing. PCU reaction to Citadel has been a big notorious zero. Server population is at 2008 levels and keeps going down. But CCP thinks that the Rubicon Plan is doing well. And after all they can't just walk away from it at this point. Maybe they could remove teams from a structure set, slow down the whole thing and do something instead for PvE and high sec and solo play and the "85%", but even then, they would need to get it right. And that is unlikely for the little we know about the plans for PvE.
Shakira Akira Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 30	Posted - 2016.05.15 19:51:51 - [2188] - Quote Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote: Again. You're not losing SP. You're not earning them. Also you can buy them back. Or could if you didn't lost all that ISK while you didn't play. EVE is such harsh mistress, punishes you for not playing with her. I spend a lot of time away that I cannot login even if I wanted to. (it's my job, and many in the armed forces that play the game have the same issue) We already are LOSING out for not logging in by missed fights, isk etc. Now with a daily system. we can add SP to that? It's BS. Even for bitter vets, 1/6th of a days worth of SP EVERY day is a lot. Not to mention even further devalues the point of planning ahead your skill queue as you can just inject whatever skill you want after a couple of days the most. So how exactly is this system supposed to live up to the "hardcore" nature of eve? If you don't need to plan ahead anymore, you don't need to optimize your attributes, and you don't even need to bother with +5s as you can just get that for free by logging in once a day?
Dantelion Shinoni The Black Squad 25	Posted - 2016.05.15 22:19:01 - [2189] - Quote http://crossingzebras.com/dailies-in-eve-a-design-challenge/ Haven't seen a link to this article in the thread so I'm linking it. It pretty much addresses the ONE point that really bothers people, the fact that you do have to do that task EVERY. FREAKING. DAY. The proposed idea is by far the best take on this issue I have seen. Make it a cumulative weekly thing and I, and many people with jobs, family, or just a goddam life, will fully support it.
Caleb Seremshur The Atomic Fallout Kids 786	Posted - 2016.05.16 03:53:49 - [2190] - Quote Shakira Akira wrote: Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote: Again. You're not losing SP. You're not earning them. Also you can buy them back. Or could if you didn't lost all that ISK while you didn't play. EVE is such harsh mistress, punishes you for not playing with her. I spend a lot of time away that I cannot login even if I wanted to. (it's my job, and many in the armed forces that play the game have the same issue) We already are LOSING out for not logging in by missed fights, isk etc. Now with a daily system. we can add SP to that? It's BS. Even for bitter vets, 1/6th of a days worth of SP EVERY day is a lot. Not to mention even further devalues the point of planning ahead your skill queue as you can just inject whatever skill you want after a couple of days the most. So how exactly is this system supposed to live up to the "hardcore" nature of eve? If you don't need to plan ahead anymore, you don't need to optimize your attributes, and you don't even need to bother with +5s as you can just get that for free by logging in once a day? So.. You feel like you're losing something ingame because you made IRL choices that affect your ability to play a video game. Right. And now you think that proven methods of getting more people to log in are bad, and I bet you're one of those people who think SP doesn't matter long term (compared to activity). Maybe I'm wrong? Or maybe you have an entitlement complex.
Jeremiah Saken The Fall of Leviathan 574	Posted - 2016.05.16 06:41:21 - [2191] - Quote Quote: Quote: I like what CCP Ghost said. It was also a herold of something bad incoming. Average player log for 2 hours per day. How to get him entertaing for 2 hours? I think the proposed feature is not meant to fulfill the quoted requirement. The proposed feature looks like a stab in the dark try to get people to log in just like you get people in a store with door crasher prices. Having us play 2 hours per day is a job with multiple part. Getting us to log in is the first step. It might be stupid to do it with a daily but if you look at the people who will feel forced to log in because of it, the feature sure as hell does the first step of getting us to log in. If they want the majority of the account to log in every day, this is probably the surest way to make it happen. It's probably not viable long term but while it last, you can bet people will log in day in day out to get their line of sp. Which is why it's even worse. We need a good reason to log in. Like fun game to play. People being pushed to login because they have feel like they losing something is bad mechanism and will burn out players even faster. Why do I need this extra SP if i don't want to use them to play the game anyway? It's a slippery slope. The problem will go even deeper. We need positive reason to login not negative. Unless you want to decrease overall motivation and game reception. Dantelion Shinoni wrote: http://crossingzebras.com/dailies-in-eve-a-design-challenge/ Haven't seen a link to this article in the thread so I'm linking it. It pretty much addresses the ONE point that really bothers people, the fact that you do have to do that task EVERY. FREAKING. DAY. The proposed idea is by far the best take on this issue I have seen. Make it a cumulative weekly thing and I, and many people with jobs, family, or just a goddam life, will fully support it. What do you mean by cumulative weekly? T-Jay Charante wrote: No, I don't understand the logic of people who rarely play 'feeling punished' about missing out on SP when in fact they are gaining more SP than people that play on a daily basis. You expect players who play daily to do chores to afford +5's to get equal to your SP gain, yet you complain about a daily chore. Why do you play first place? If playing to afford +5's is a chore to you I don't think you have fun playing this game. Do you think doing dailiy chore (shoot one rat) will improve your experience? That why everybody want more fun gameplay, not forcing to login to play the game. I am the 85%
Lugh Crow-Slave 2541	Posted - 2016.05.16 07:03:55 - [2192] - Quote not to meantion that you can now swap into and out of your plus V clone with no wait time Citadel worm hole tax
sero Hita Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 164	Posted - 2016.05.16 09:15:45 - [2193] - Quote Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote: PCU reaction to Citadel has been a big notorious zero. Server population is at 2008 levels and keeps going down. But CCP thinks that the Rubicon Plan is doing well. And after all they can't just walk away from it at this point. Maybe they could remove teams from a structure set, slow down the whole thing and do something instead for PvE and high sec and solo play and the "85%", but even then, they would need to get it right. And that is unlikely for the little we know about the plans for PvE. If you go to eveoffline and check the trend (the graphs) for 1 year/5year or All, where do you see evidence that server populations are going down? The trend seems to be a slight increase in player activity in the last half year IMO (Ofc we cannot distinguish between if more player joined, or if players were just logged on longer). With world war bee it is likely that people have been loggin on more, but I have no proof of this. So I am really curious where you get this prognosis from? And it is pretty crucial as the supposed drop in player activity is your main argument in the above for that what CCP is doing is wrong. Yet the server population does not keep going down, as you proclaim.. perhaps they are on a right track afterall? "I'm all for pvp, don't get me wrong. I've ganked in Empire, blobed in low sec. Got T-shirts from every which-where.. But to be forced into a pvp confrontation that I didn't want is wrong ccp." RealFlisker
Lan Wang Knights of the Posing Meat FETID 2864	Posted - 2016.05.16 09:19:51 - [2194] - Quote sero Hita wrote: Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote: PCU reaction to Citadel has been a big notorious zero. Server population is at 2008 levels and keeps going down. But CCP thinks that the Rubicon Plan is doing well. And after all they can't just walk away from it at this point. Maybe they could remove teams from a structure set, slow down the whole thing and do something instead for PvE and high sec and solo play and the "85%", but even then, they would need to get it right. And that is unlikely for the little we know about the plans for PvE. If you go to eveoffline and check the trend (the graphs) for 1 year/5year or All, where do you see evidence that server populations are going down? The trend seems to be a slight increase in player activity in the last half year IMO (Ofc we cannot distinguish between if more player joined, or if players were just logged on longer). With world war bee it is likely that people have been loggin on more, but I have no proof of this. So I am really curious where you get this prognosis from? And it is pretty crucial as the supposed drop in player activity is your main argument in the above for that what CCP is doing is wrong. Yet the server population does not keep going down, as you proclaim.. perhaps they are on a right track afterall? 40k online lastnight during my prime, not seen that in a long time FETID now recruiting pvp pilots & corporations \| lowsec pvp & piracy - Join FETID Loyalist to Angel Cartel & Serpentis
sero Hita Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 164	Posted - 2016.05.16 09:20:22 - [2195] - Quote Jeremiah Saken wrote: What do you mean by cumulative weekly? I think with cumulative he means that once a week you need to do 7 actions. You can either do one everyday, divide it over three days or do all seven on one day. This would fit better to people who are busy in RL. "I'm all for pvp, don't get me wrong. I've ganked in Empire, blobed in low sec. Got T-shirts from every which-where.. But to be forced into a pvp confrontation that I didn't want is wrong ccp." RealFlisker
Jeremiah Saken The Fall of Leviathan 574	Posted - 2016.05.16 09:40:28 - [2196] - Quote Quote: Quote: What do you mean by cumulative weekly? I think with cumulative he means that once a week you need to do 7 actions. You can either do one everyday, divide it over three days or do all seven on one day. The actions accumulate over the week, and are not daily. This would fit better to people who are busy in RL. CCP wants players to log every day, not just sunday. So it would be pointless to do such feature. I am the 85%
T-Jay Charante Black Sun Industry and Research 30	Posted - 2016.05.16 11:27:38 - [2197] - Quote Jeremiah Saken wrote: [quote][quote] T-Jay Charante wrote: No, I don't understand the logic of people who rarely play 'feeling punished' about missing out on SP when in fact they are gaining more SP than people that play on a daily basis. You expect players who play daily to do chores to afford +5's to get equal to your SP gain, yet you complain about a daily chore. Why do you play first place? If playing to afford +5's is a chore to you I don't think you have fun playing this game. Do you think doing dailiy chore (shoot one rat) will improve your experience? That why everybody want more fun gameplay, not forcing to login to play the game. Sorry bud, I think you and I have different visions of what is 'fun' to do in EvE. I'd much rather be bad at EvE and get blown up repeatedly than grind all day, every day for implants. The point is, I get far less SP than someone who logs in once a week. I don't feel forced to have +5's to get equal SP than people who seldom play, so why do the same people feel 'forced' to log in, if this goes through, when the reality is they may still gain more SP than the average player by being logged out. It all just seems rather selfish.
Jeremiah Saken The Fall of Leviathan 574	Posted - 2016.05.16 11:52:55 - [2198] - Quote T-Jay Charante wrote: Sorry bud, I think you and I have different visions of what is 'fun' to do in EvE. I'd much rather be bad at EvE and get blown up repeatedly than grind all day, every day for implants. The point is, I get far less SP than someone who logs in once a week. I don't feel forced to have +5's to get equal SP than people who seldom play, so why do the same people feel 'forced' to log in, if this goes through, when the reality is they may still gain more SP than the average player by being logged out. It all just seems rather selfish. Dailies won't solve your SP problem. I'm flying with +5 implants all the time. Most time I scan and explore combat signatures, so I'll get the SP reward bonus anyway. You'll never gonna catch me this way. This is known SP gap issue between PvP and PvEers (assuming you are pvper). Problem is CCP luring players by obvious reward that will become the goal not the tool. SPs are tool, why the hell we need them if our game is not fun (either pvp or pve). I am the 85%
T-Jay Charante Black Sun Industry and Research 30	Posted - 2016.05.16 12:11:48 - [2199] - Quote Jeremiah Saken wrote: T-Jay Charante wrote: Sorry bud, I think you and I have different visions of what is 'fun' to do in EvE. I'd much rather be bad at EvE and get blown up repeatedly than grind all day, every day for implants. The point is, I get far less SP than someone who logs in once a week. I don't feel forced to have +5's to get equal SP than people who seldom play, so why do the same people feel 'forced' to log in, if this goes through, when the reality is they may still gain more SP than the average player by being logged out. It all just seems rather selfish. Dailies won't solve your SP problem. I'm flying with +5 implants all the time. Most time I scan and explore combat signatures, so I'll get the SP reward bonus anyway. You'll never gonna catch me this way. This is known SP gap issue between PvP and PvEers (assuming you are pvper). Problem is CCP luring players by obvious reward that will become the goal not the tool. SPs are tool, why the hell we need them if our game is not fun (either pvp or pve). That's is pretty much the argument, the only people that are concerned by this are ones that don't play the game that often. The average person playing daily isn't rolling around in +5's, are not playing Skillpoints Online and therefore will not be religiously running these dailies. Sure, we'll do it a few times, but to think everyone will be logging in to solely do our daily is pretty naive.
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 2822	Posted - 2016.05.16 13:18:32 - [2200] - Quote Jeremiah Saken wrote: T-Jay Charante wrote: Sorry bud, I think you and I have different visions of what is 'fun' to do in EvE. I'd much rather be bad at EvE and get blown up repeatedly than grind all day, every day for implants. The point is, I get far less SP than someone who logs in once a week. I don't feel forced to have +5's to get equal SP than people who seldom play, so why do the same people feel 'forced' to log in, if this goes through, when the reality is they may still gain more SP than the average player by being logged out. It all just seems rather selfish. Dailies won't solve your SP problem. I'm flying with +5 implants all the time. Most time I scan and explore combat signatures, so I'll get the SP reward bonus anyway. You'll never gonna catch me this way. This is known SP gap issue between PvP and PvEers (assuming you are pvper). Problem is CCP luring players by obvious reward that will become the goal not the tool. SPs are tool, why the hell we need them if our game is not fun (either pvp or pve). A lot of people already don't see SP as a tool. Just look at all the crying for free SP every time the server goes down for whatever reason even if our skill queu actually were still going.
FT Diomedes The Graduates 2549	Posted - 2016.05.16 16:07:49 - [2201] - Quote T-Jay Charante wrote: Jeremiah Saken wrote: T-Jay Charante wrote: Sorry bud, I think you and I have different visions of what is 'fun' to do in EvE. I'd much rather be bad at EvE and get blown up repeatedly than grind all day, every day for implants. The point is, I get far less SP than someone who logs in once a week. I don't feel forced to have +5's to get equal SP than people who seldom play, so why do the same people feel 'forced' to log in, if this goes through, when the reality is they may still gain more SP than the average player by being logged out. It all just seems rather selfish. Dailies won't solve your SP problem. I'm flying with +5 implants all the time. Most time I scan and explore combat signatures, so I'll get the SP reward bonus anyway. You'll never gonna catch me this way. This is known SP gap issue between PvP and PvEers (assuming you are pvper). Problem is CCP luring players by obvious reward that will become the goal not the tool. SPs are tool, why the hell we need them if our game is not fun (either pvp or pve). That's is pretty much the argument, the only people that are concerned by this are ones that don't play the game that often. The average person playing daily isn't rolling around in +5's, are not playing Skillpoints Online and therefore will not be religiously running these dailies. Sure, we'll do it a few times, but to think everyone will be logging in to solely do our daily is pretty naive. If people don't log in to do it, then it is stupid and pointless. CCP is counting on people logging in to do this. I play the game every day that I can. I also PVP in +5 implants. I don't like the precedent this sets with grinding for SP. I don't like being penalized on the days I cannot log in to the game. One of the fundamental things about Eve is that for years all you had to do to keep your character progressing was to keep subscribing. As someone in the military, that's a major draw. Now CCP appears to be taking major steps away from that model. And for what? For some bullshit ten minute daily logins that create another chore. I already have enough "daily tasks" in Eve. I am a corporation leader and FC. I also have normal, everyday things I want to do: PVP, PI, industry, exploration, etc. Every login is already like being pecked to death by baby ducks. "I'm bored. Can someone lead a roam?" "Hey, is my Naglfar ready yet?" "Can you light a cyno for me?" "Where is my courier contract now?" "Can you scout for the strat op tonight? I need scouts in HED-GP, PF-346, Obe, and H-PA29." And that's in a drama free corporation/alliance. CCP has done very little over the years to reduce the tedium of being a corporation/alliance leader. Those people make things happen and help keep others logging in. At this point in Eve, I mostly play for my corpmates. This is thirty minutes to an hour a day (five accounts) that I'll have to spend not generating things for others. CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.
Ember Niagara Industrial Cruise Missile Protocol Local Is Primary 0	Posted - 2016.05.16 16:37:46 - [2202] - Quote CCP, your objective here is simply to get players to undock, right? (And, presumably, a way to ease the pain for newbies training their core skill sets?) Instead of doing a random, immersion breaking shopping list of "kill this NPC! fit this thing!" like other MMOGs, I recommend instead that you simply follow this principle: Reward players for doing what they already do. Allocate SP based on what players have been doing: EN Method A: "Manual" Every 24 hours, every player gets a certain amount of Daily Unallocated SP. These are not cumulative - unused Daily Unallocated do not carry over to the next day. The game looks at your actions taken during the day and "unlocks" the ability to apply your Daily Unallocated to related skills after you do them. For example, if you turn on your Warp Drive, then you gain the ability to apply the skill points to Warp Drive Operation. EN Method B: "Automatic" Every 24 hours, every player gets a certain amount of Daily Unallocated SP. These are not cumulative - unused Daily Unallocated do not carry over to the next day. The game looks at your actions taken during the day and compiles a list of skills related to what you were doing. At the end of the day, it automatically applies chunks of your Daily Unallocated to the related skills. For example, if you turn on your Warp Drive, then you gain SP to Warp Drive Operation. EN Method C: "Semi-Automatic" Same as Method B but only auto-applies the SP to the skills that were in your Skill Queue, which gives you a greater degree of control over what gets the bonus (if you don't want a particular skill to get the 24H bonus SP, pull it out of your skill queue before the end of the day).
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 2822	Posted - 2016.05.16 19:35:15 - [2203] - Quote Ember Niagara wrote: CCP, your objective here is simply to get players to undock, right? (And, presumably, a way to ease the pain for newbies training their core skill sets?) Instead of a new shopping list of "kill this NPC! fit this thing!" like other MMOGs (which would feel mundane), I propose instead the principle of rewarding players for doing what they already do. Allocate SP based on actions we took during the day. Method A: "Manual" Every 24h, everyone gets a certain amount of Daily Unallocated SP. Not cumulative - unused Daily Unallocated SP do not carry over to the next day. The game looks at your actions taken during the day and "unlocks" the ability to apply your Daily Unallocated to related skills after you do them. For example, if you turn on your Warp Drive, then you gain the ability to apply the skill points to Warp Drive Operation. At the end of the day, the SP are applied to the skills of your choice. Method B: "Automatic" Every 24h, everyone gets a certain amount of Daily Unallocated SP. Not cumulative - unused Daily Unallocated SP do not carry over to the next day. The game looks at your actions taken during the day and compiles a list of skills related to what you were doing. At the end of the day, it automatically applies chunks of your Daily Unallocated to those skills you "used." For example, if you turned on your Warp Drive, then you gain SP to Warp Drive Operation. If something is already Level 5, it skips that thing and applies the SP to something else. Method C: "Semi-Automatic" Same as "B" but only auto-applies the SP to skills that were in your Active Training Queue, which gives you control over what gets the bonus (if you don't want a particular skill to get the 24H bonus SP, pull it out of your skill queue before the end of the day). IMO these methods above are more "EVE-like" -- they simulate the act of "learning by doing" (like in real life) without risking the "use gun / kill stuff 1000 times to level up" behavior of other MMOGs. This is a great way to make sure vet will min/max it by understanding exactly how to work the most SP out of it while newbie who don't know better get less because they can't figure out the optimal way.
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 2822	Posted - 2016.05.16 19:45:27 - [2204] - Quote FT Diomedes wrote: I already have enough "daily tasks" in Eve. I am a corporation leader and FC. I also have normal, everyday things I want to do: PVP, PI, industry, exploration, etc. Every login is already like being pecked to death by baby ducks. "I'm bored. Can someone lead a roam?" "Hey, is my Naglfar ready yet?" "Can you light a cyno for me?" "Where is my courier contract now?" "Can you scout for the strat op tonight? I need scouts in HED-GP, PF-346, Obe, and H-PA29." And that's in a drama free corporation/alliance. I think you are just not the intended target of this change. You already log in every day or close to it. They are more likely targeting week-end warrior or casuals logging in once a week or even less since they might get something new out of those. Seeing it as an "additional chore" sounds like you will subject yourself to something you dislike just because of the reward instead of just enjoying the game like you likely already do since you already on a daily basis. It's not about the daily but about the reward you don't want to pass up on.
T-Jay Charante Black Sun Industry and Research 31	Posted - 2016.05.16 20:01:15 - [2205] - Quote FT Diomedes wrote: T-Jay Charante wrote: Jeremiah Saken wrote: T-Jay Charante wrote: Sorry bud, I think you and I have different visions of what is 'fun' to do in EvE. I'd much rather be bad at EvE and get blown up repeatedly than grind all day, every day for implants. The point is, I get far less SP than someone who logs in once a week. I don't feel forced to have +5's to get equal SP than people who seldom play, so why do the same people feel 'forced' to log in, if this goes through, when the reality is they may still gain more SP than the average player by being logged out. It all just seems rather selfish. Dailies won't solve your SP problem. I'm flying with +5 implants all the time. Most time I scan and explore combat signatures, so I'll get the SP reward bonus anyway. You'll never gonna catch me this way. This is known SP gap issue between PvP and PvEers (assuming you are pvper). Problem is CCP luring players by obvious reward that will become the goal not the tool. SPs are tool, why the hell we need them if our game is not fun (either pvp or pve). That's is pretty much the argument, the only people that are concerned by this are ones that don't play the game that often. The average person playing daily isn't rolling around in +5's, are not playing Skillpoints Online and therefore will not be religiously running these dailies. Sure, we'll do it a few times, but to think everyone will be logging in to solely do our daily is pretty naive. If people don't log in to do it, then it is stupid and pointless. CCP is counting on people logging in to do this. I play the game every day that I can. I also PVP in +5 implants. I don't like the precedent this sets with grinding for SP. I don't like being penalized on the days I cannot log in to the game. One of the fundamental things about Eve is that for years all you had to do to keep your character progressing was to keep subscribing. As someone in the military, that's a major draw. Now CCP appears to be taking major steps away from that model. And for what? For some bullshit ten minute daily logins that create another chore. I already have enough "daily tasks" in Eve. I am a corporation leader and FC. I also have normal, everyday things I want to do: PVP, PI, industry, exploration, etc. Every login is already like being pecked to death by baby ducks. "I'm bored. Can someone lead a roam?" "Hey, is my Naglfar ready yet?" "Can you light a cyno for me?" "Where is my courier contract now?" "Can you scout for the strat op tonight? I need scouts in HED-GP, PF-346, Obe, and H-PA29." And that's in a drama free corporation/alliance. CCP has done very little over the years to reduce the tedium of being a corporation/alliance leader. Those people make things happen and help keep others logging in. At this point in Eve, I mostly play for my corpmates. This is thirty minutes to an hour a day (five accounts) that I'll have to spend not generating things for others. Genuine question, why would you feel the need to do this every day on 5 accounts? Your corp alts already seem to be at the stage where they can do what is required of them, industry, hauling, scouting etc. Is a small amount of daily SP really going to change the roles you already use them for.
Miss 'Assassination' Cayman Best Kept Frozen. LowSechnaya Sholupen 141	Posted - 2016.05.16 23:17:55 - [2206] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: FT Diomedes wrote: I already have enough "daily tasks" in Eve. I am a corporation leader and FC. I also have normal, everyday things I want to do: PVP, PI, industry, exploration, etc. Every login is already like being pecked to death by baby ducks. "I'm bored. Can someone lead a roam?" "Hey, is my Naglfar ready yet?" "Can you light a cyno for me?" "Where is my courier contract now?" "Can you scout for the strat op tonight? I need scouts in HED-GP, PF-346, Obe, and H-PA29." And that's in a drama free corporation/alliance. I think you are just not the intended target of this change. You already log in every day or close to it. They are more likely targeting week-end warrior or casuals logging in once a week or even less since they might get something new out of those. Seeing it as an "additional chore" sounds like you will subject yourself to something you dislike just because of the reward instead of just enjoying the game like you likely already do since you already on a daily basis. It's not about the daily but about the reward you don't want to pass up on. That right there is exactly the problem. The reward is too good to pass up, so a lot of us will feel pressured to do the chore each day instead of having fun.
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 2823	Posted - 2016.05.16 23:25:50 - [2207] - Quote T-Jay Charante wrote: Genuine question, why would you feel the need to do this every day on 5 accounts? Your corp alts already seem to be at the stage where they can do what is required of them, industry, hauling, scouting etc. Is a small amount of daily SP really going to change the roles you already use them for. That's easy to guess. Many players in this game value SP higher than fun.
Indahmawar Fazmarai 5227	Posted - 2016.05.17 07:00:05 - [2208] - Quote sero Hita wrote: Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote: PCU reaction to Citadel has been a big notorious zero. Server population is at 2008 levels and keeps going down. But CCP thinks that the Rubicon Plan is doing well. And after all they can't just walk away from it at this point. Maybe they could remove teams from a structure set, slow down the whole thing and do something instead for PvE and high sec and solo play and the "85%", but even then, they would need to get it right. And that is unlikely for the little we know about the plans for PvE. If you go to eveoffline and check the trend (the graphs) for 1 year/5year or All, where do you see evidence that server populations are going down? The trend seems to be a slight increase in player activity in the last half year IMO (Ofc we cannot distinguish between if more player joined, or if players were just logged on longer). With world war bee it is likely that people have been loggin on more, but I have no proof of this. So I am really curious where you get this prognosis from? And it is pretty crucial as the supposed drop in player activity is your main argument in the above for that what CCP is doing is wrong. Yet the server population does not keep going down, as you proclaim.. perhaps they are on a right track afterall? I'm cheking interannual PCU averages. For January-May 2015 was 29k, this year it's been 27k despite the massive boost of WWB. Admittedly PCU is a moot indicator since it can be twisted into a "true falsity" as all statistics, but in general it's something you would like to see growing in the long term rather than dwindling. Also, in general, a product that depends on releasing novelties regularly to justify its regular payment monetization should suffer some kind of drawback when large parts of the customer base don't get enough novelties. I think that the current situation with Rubicon is a mistake based on insufficient information about the composition of demographics: CCP thought that Rubicon would appeal to more players than it actually does, and underestimated the amount of players left behind by the Rubicon guidelines. Citadel as a expansion has fizzled. And probably it was meant to be the most successful of he new structure-based releases...
Jeremiah Saken The Fall of Leviathan 580	Posted - 2016.05.17 07:34:46 - [2209] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: T-Jay Charante wrote: Genuine question, why would you feel the need to do this every day on 5 accounts? Your corp alts already seem to be at the stage where they can do what is required of them, industry, hauling, scouting etc. Is a small amount of daily SP really going to change the roles you already use them for. That's easy to guess. Many players in this game value SP higher than fun. SPs became commodity when they introduced skill trading. Players will log on for 1,5 minute farm SP and profit. SP farms are the real thing, with PLEX prices falling, it's riskless, afk income. Absurd gameplay, and it won't stop. CCP earn on skill extractors and without SP farms whole thing would end in circa 6 months. To parapharase WoW: "SP is money, friend!". I just wonder how they will measure the success of this "feature". I am the 85%
T-Jay Charante Black Sun Industry and Research 31	Posted - 2016.05.17 11:13:14 - [2210] - Quote Jeremiah Saken wrote: Frostys Virpio wrote: T-Jay Charante wrote: Genuine question, why would you feel the need to do this every day on 5 accounts? Your corp alts already seem to be at the stage where they can do what is required of them, industry, hauling, scouting etc. Is a small amount of daily SP really going to change the roles you already use them for. That's easy to guess. Many players in this game value SP higher than fun. SPs became commodity when they introduced skill trading. Players will log on for 1,5 minute farm SP and profit. SP farms are the real thing, with PLEX prices falling, it's riskless, afk income. Absurd gameplay, and it won't stop. CCP earn on skill extractors and without SP farms whole thing would end in circa 6 months. To parapharase WoW: "SP is money, friend!". I just wonder how they will measure the success of this "feature". And just like any commodity in EvE, the market will get saturated, prices will crash and people will balance isk/time efficiency. This daily will eventually turn into something similar to R+D agents, once a passive goldmine, now a thing you do if you are close by, if you can be bothered.
Jeremiah Saken The Fall of Leviathan 580	Posted - 2016.05.17 11:48:33 - [2211] - Quote T-Jay Charante wrote: And just like any commodity in EvE, the market will get saturated, prices will crash and people will balance isk/time efficiency. This daily will eventually turn into something similar to R+D agents, once a passive goldmine, now a thing you do if you are close by, if you can be bothered. If anything, this is a SP farmers worst nightmare and their profit margins will get crushed. I don't think so, part of SP after using injcetor is going into the void. It doesn't matter anyway. Introducing unhealty mechanism counting for logins is wrong direction. Logins will happen, what next? Remeber This is EvE trailer massive players reaction? Where are they? NPE is a joke, opportunities are joke, old carrier agents were joke (I didn't do them for a while, but when I started I must google what to do...). Sure dailies are for active and already in-game players but still, it's crude, "CCP like way" for boosting PCU. I really want to see what's behind Tribute system before they implement dailies, because it felt like dailies when they announced it. Rise wrote it's something else. I am the 85%
Dantelion Shinoni The Black Squad 25	Posted - 2016.05.17 17:16:02 - [2212] - Quote Jeremiah Saken wrote: Quote: Quote: What do you mean by cumulative weekly? I think with cumulative he means that once a week you need to do 7 actions. You can either do one everyday, divide it over three days or do all seven on one day. The actions accumulate over the week, and are not daily. This would fit better to people who are busy in RL. CCP wants players to log every day, not just sunday. So it would be pointless to do such feature. If they want ALL players to log in every day, they are going to be very, VERY disappointed. I'd say a more reasonable expectation would be MORE people logging everyday, and a cumulative weekly would do just that. You will have the people who have the time to make sure they log every freaking day do those each day, and that without alienating those with families and jobs. Plus, even for those who have all the time in the world such a feature would be a blessing as you wouldn't feel like whenever you would miss a day.
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 2824	Posted - 2016.05.17 21:18:09 - [2213] - Quote Dantelion Shinoni wrote: Jeremiah Saken wrote: Quote: Quote: What do you mean by cumulative weekly? I think with cumulative he means that once a week you need to do 7 actions. You can either do one everyday, divide it over three days or do all seven on one day. The actions accumulate over the week, and are not daily. This would fit better to people who are busy in RL. CCP wants players to log every day, not just sunday. So it would be pointless to do such feature. If they want ALL players to log in every day, they are going to be very, VERY disappointed. I'd say a more reasonable expectation would be MORE people logging everyday, and a cumulative weekly would do just that. You will have the people who have the time to make sure they log every freaking day do those each day, and that without alienating those with families and jobs. Plus, even for those who have all the time in the world such a feature would be a blessing as you wouldn't feel like whenever you would miss a day. A weekly cumulative will only really make you log more often if you don;t log in at least once a week before it get implemented. If you log every week, you'll do them that one time you log every week anyway. Making it every day is the key to make people log more often. The only issue they are currently facing is their players being annoyed because they feel like they have to because they can't pass up a hit of SP.
FT Diomedes The Graduates 2550	Posted - 2016.05.17 21:23:15 - [2214] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: FT Diomedes wrote: I already have enough "daily tasks" in Eve. I am a corporation leader and FC. I also have normal, everyday things I want to do: PVP, PI, industry, exploration, etc. Every login is already like being pecked to death by baby ducks. "I'm bored. Can someone lead a roam?" "Hey, is my Naglfar ready yet?" "Can you light a cyno for me?" "Where is my courier contract now?" "Can you scout for the strat op tonight? I need scouts in HED-GP, PF-346, Obe, and H-PA29." And that's in a drama free corporation/alliance. I think you are just not the intended target of this change. You already log in every day or close to it. They are more likely targeting week-end warrior or casuals logging in once a week or even less since they might get something new out of those. Seeing it as an "additional chore" sounds like you will subject yourself to something you dislike just because of the reward instead of just enjoying the game like you likely already do since you already on a daily basis. It's not about the daily but about the reward you don't want to pass up on. I may not be the intended target, but I, and many others, are part of the collateral damage. That is why so many have voiced their opposition to this proposal. It offers a reward that is too good to pass up for anyone who actually plays the game, and it offers no incentive for people who don't currently play to actually come back and get engaged. Just a way for them to perceive they are falling further behind. Eve needs new and interesting things for people to do, or at the very least new variations on successful aspects of the game. Incursions, FW, and WH space did this before. Individual pilots could do these new and interesting things. This shallow stupid gameplay won't have the same effect. And neither will citadels, because they offer nothing to the individual pilot. CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.
Caleb Seremshur The Atomic Fallout Kids 799	Posted - 2016.05.17 23:25:48 - [2215] - Quote Guis receiving a tangible benefit for playing is now falling behind. If you don't log in and make a bil a day in ratting does that qualify as well? ??
Miss 'Assassination' Cayman Best Kept Frozen. LowSechnaya Sholupen 146	Posted - 2016.05.18 07:16:21 - [2216] - Quote Caleb Seremshur wrote: Guis receiving a tangible benefit for playing is now falling behind. If you don't log in and make a bil a day in ratting does that qualify as well? ?? That depends. Can you get that bil in one hour a day each day, no more, no less? If so, then yes.
Mara Rinn Cosmic Goo Convertor 5873	Posted - 2016.05.18 07:40:45 - [2217] - Quote T-Jay Charante wrote: I'm sure you jumped into a nice clone, with +5 implants before you left to maximize you skill point gain. Meanwhile, people who play on a daily basis don't have this luxury. You feel punished as you may miss out on 3 or 4 hours training when you don't play the game. How do you feel about the people who lose 3-4 hours training who do play the game every day over ones that log in once or twice a week, do you think this is fair and logical? If you are playing the game every day, and not participating in this daily opportunity, that's not my fault. The very least you can do is blow up an NPC every day, even if you're wandering around looking for gudfites. Day 0 Advice for New Players
Caleb Seremshur The Atomic Fallout Kids 799	Posted - 2016.05.18 08:18:23 - [2218] - Quote Miss 'Assassination' Cayman wrote: Caleb Seremshur wrote: Guis receiving a tangible benefit for playing is now falling behind. If you don't log in and make a bil a day in ratting does that qualify as well? ?? That depends. Can you get that bil in one hour a day each day, no more, no less? If so, then yes. The point was that it's condescending at best to suggest that a person would not be getting a reward for something because not turning up to collect it, whether it's bounties or market margins or skill points or ship hulls or any other tangible benefit that is sourced from an activity in game is unfair because you couldn't or wouldn't log in. You can't fall behind on an activity you don't log in to participate in. It's just the same when people say that unsubscribed characters carry no weight because they weren't active anyway and that losing them doesn't count because they weren't contributing in the first place.
T-Jay Charante Black Sun Industry and Research 32	Posted - 2016.05.18 11:51:04 - [2219] - Quote Mara Rinn wrote: T-Jay Charante wrote: I'm sure you jumped into a nice clone, with +5 implants before you left to maximize you skill point gain. Meanwhile, people who play on a daily basis don't have this luxury. You feel punished as you may miss out on 3 or 4 hours training when you don't play the game. How do you feel about the people who lose 3-4 hours training who do play the game every day over ones that log in once or twice a week, do you think this is fair and logical? If you are playing the game every day, and not participating in this daily opportunity, that's not my fault. The very least you can do is blow up an NPC every day, even if you're wandering around looking for gudfites. I am talking about the current state, where I don't have the opportunity to make up those lost SP's compared to someone afk skill training with +5's.
FT Diomedes The Graduates 2552	Posted - 2016.05.18 13:25:09 - [2220] - Quote T-Jay Charante wrote: Mara Rinn wrote: T-Jay Charante wrote: I'm sure you jumped into a nice clone, with +5 implants before you left to maximize you skill point gain. Meanwhile, people who play on a daily basis don't have this luxury. You feel punished as you may miss out on 3 or 4 hours training when you don't play the game. How do you feel about the people who lose 3-4 hours training who do play the game every day over ones that log in once or twice a week, do you think this is fair and logical? If you are playing the game every day, and not participating in this daily opportunity, that's not my fault. The very least you can do is blow up an NPC every day, even if you're wandering around looking for gudfites. I am talking about the current state, where I don't have the opportunity to make up those lost SP's compared to someone afk skill training with +5's. Yes, you do. You make the choice not to fly with +5 implants. That's a choice you make - in game - on days when you can play. There are two schools of thought on "what you get for subscribing to Eve." One is that you simply pay for access to the server. This makes some sense, but almost none of us can maximize our access to the Eve server every month. I subscribe to the other school of thought, which is that you pay for access to the skill training. CCP made this abundantly clear when they removed ghost training. I didn't keep paying CCP the subscription fee for nine years so I could play Eve all day every day - I paid them to keep my characters improving. I did that even for time periods when I could not conceivably access Eve. Since CCP clearly does not like that model, I've made my own choices. This May, I unsubscribed another account and switched over to PLEX for the rest. I'm slowly bleeding down in game resources while I see which way this world is headed. Skill injectors and other daily grinding don't give me much incentive to continue, but we'll see how it turns out. CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.
Blue Macaw Caldari Provisions Caldari State 11	Posted - 2016.05.18 15:18:45 - [2221] - Quote So you people don't want free SP ... What's wrong with you --"... If i were to gift you something would you attempt to kick my ass for it? +¦_o. The gap between newbies and vets like us is ever increasing, and newbies are the ones that are more likely to do PVE because they don't have dozens of billions to invest in industry every week. I love newbies and I am aware of the ammount of skills required to play eve properly, so ANYTHING that helps is welcome.. No matter what bittervets think.
Jeremiah Saken The Fall of Leviathan 582	Posted - 2016.05.18 15:33:14 - [2222] - Quote Blue Macaw wrote: So you people don't want free SP ... What's wrong with you --"... If i were to gift you something would you attempt to kick my ass for it? +¦_o. The gap between newbies and vets like us is ever increasing, and newbies are the ones that are more likely to do PVE because they don't have dozens of billions to invest in industry every week. I love newbies and I am aware of the ammount of skills required to play eve properly, so ANYTHING that helps is welcome.. No matter what bittervets think. This feature has nothing to do with newbees. I am the 85%
T-Jay Charante Black Sun Industry and Research 32	Posted - 2016.05.18 16:04:55 - [2223] - Quote FT Diomedes wrote: T-Jay Charante wrote: Mara Rinn wrote: T-Jay Charante wrote: I'm sure you jumped into a nice clone, with +5 implants before you left to maximize you skill point gain. Meanwhile, people who play on a daily basis don't have this luxury. You feel punished as you may miss out on 3 or 4 hours training when you don't play the game. How do you feel about the people who lose 3-4 hours training who do play the game every day over ones that log in once or twice a week, do you think this is fair and logical? If you are playing the game every day, and not participating in this daily opportunity, that's not my fault. The very least you can do is blow up an NPC every day, even if you're wandering around looking for gudfites. I am talking about the current state, where I don't have the opportunity to make up those lost SP's compared to someone afk skill training with +5's. Yes, you do. You make the choice not to fly with +5 implants. That's a choice you make - in game - on days when you can play. There are two schools of thought on "what you get for subscribing to Eve." One is that you simply pay for access to the server. This makes some sense, but almost none of us can maximize our access to the Eve server every month. I subscribe to the other school of thought, which is that you pay for access to the skill training. CCP made this abundantly clear when they removed ghost training. I didn't keep paying CCP the subscription fee for nine years so I could play Eve all day every day - I paid them to keep my characters improving. I did that even for time periods when I could not conceivably access Eve. Since CCP clearly does not like that model, I've made my own choices. This May, I unsubscribed another account and switched over to PLEX for the rest. I'm slowly bleeding down in game resources while I see which way this world is headed. Skill injectors and other daily grinding don't give me much incentive to continue, but we'll see how it turns out. I guess skill points are like kids toys. Some kids don't want to share their toys, throws a fit if anyone comes near to them and can't see others have fun with them, even if they are not even around to use them. Others kids just don't care who plays with their toys, as long as someone is getting enjoyment out of them. It's just a game.
Dantelion Shinoni The Black Squad 26	Posted - 2016.05.18 16:43:05 - [2224] - Quote T-Jay Charante wrote: It's just a game. Are you complaining about people not being nice in EVE?... You bet your sweet hoonani that I don't want you to get more stuffs while I don't if I can help it. SP included. Those other kids need to reconsider their life choices.
Blue Macaw Caldari Provisions Caldari State 12	Posted - 2016.05.18 17:23:26 - [2225] - Quote Jeremiah Saken wrote: Blue Macaw wrote: So you people don't want free SP ... What's wrong with you --"... If i were to gift you something would you attempt to kick my ass for it? +¦_o. The gap between newbies and vets like us is ever increasing, and newbies are the ones that are more likely to do PVE because they don't have dozens of billions to invest in industry every week. I love newbies and I am aware of the ammount of skills required to play eve properly, so ANYTHING that helps is welcome.. No matter what bittervets think. This feature has nothing to do with newbees. It does. Anyone can take advantage of it - sure - but the ones who are going to benefit the most from this are newbies.
FT Diomedes The Graduates 2554	Posted - 2016.05.18 18:04:30 - [2226] - Quote Blue Macaw wrote: Jeremiah Saken wrote: Blue Macaw wrote: So you people don't want free SP ... What's wrong with you --"... If i were to gift you something would you attempt to kick my ass for it? +¦_o. The gap between newbies and vets like us is ever increasing, and newbies are the ones that are more likely to do PVE because they don't have dozens of billions to invest in industry every week. I love newbies and I am aware of the ammount of skills required to play eve properly, so ANYTHING that helps is welcome.. No matter what bittervets think. This feature has nothing to do with newbees. It does. Anyone can take advantage of it - sure - but the ones who are going to benefit the most from this are newbies. I would actually be somewhat okay with this if it only benefitted new characters and was used as an incentive to get them more involved in the Eve universe. In other words, if it was tied to the NPE. CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 2826	Posted - 2016.05.18 20:24:26 - [2227] - Quote FT Diomedes wrote: Blue Macaw wrote: Jeremiah Saken wrote: Blue Macaw wrote: So you people don't want free SP ... What's wrong with you --"... If i were to gift you something would you attempt to kick my ass for it? +¦_o. The gap between newbies and vets like us is ever increasing, and newbies are the ones that are more likely to do PVE because they don't have dozens of billions to invest in industry every week. I love newbies and I am aware of the ammount of skills required to play eve properly, so ANYTHING that helps is welcome.. No matter what bittervets think. This feature has nothing to do with newbees. It does. Anyone can take advantage of it - sure - but the ones who are going to benefit the most from this are newbies. I would actually be somewhat okay with this if it only benefitted new characters and was used as an incentive to get them more involved in the Eve universe. In other words, if it was tied to the NPE. Vets would grind alts to sell SP gained that way. Some would even go as far as feeling forced to do so.
Circumstantial Evidence 311	Posted - 2016.05.18 21:36:24 - [2228] - Quote FT Diomedes wrote: Eve needs new and interesting things for people to do, [...] This shallow stupid gameplay won't have the same effect. And neither will citadels, because they offer nothing to the individual pilot. I agree with many of your points, just want to take issue with the Citadel comment: they have been a good buff to industry with so many new modules needing to be built and hauled around; nothing was converted from "old pos." And if an individual pilot was using a POS in K-Space before, asset safety is better than losing contents of the corp/ship hanger.
Shakira Akira Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 33	Posted - 2016.05.19 01:18:59 - [2229] - Quote Circumstantial Evidence wrote: FT Diomedes wrote: Eve needs new and interesting things for people to do, [...] This shallow stupid gameplay won't have the same effect. And neither will citadels, because they offer nothing to the individual pilot. I agree with many of your points, just want to take issue with the Citadel comment: they have been a good buff to industry with so many new modules needing to be built and hauled around; nothing was converted from "old pos." And if an individual pilot was using a POS in K-Space before, asset safety is better than losing contents of the corp/ship hanger. 2 things about this. 1. By making POS useless, people's investments into the POS modules and blueprints etc have essentially been wiped out. 2. Losing your assets was an incentive to ensure you defended your POS, with half your **** magically appearing in a station from Kspace, there's no risk left. Heck, if you're lazy you could just destroy your own citadel instead of wasting your time moving your own BS etc out.
Sgt Ocker Kenshin. DARKNESS. 965	Posted - 2016.05.19 09:23:35 - [2230] - Quote Circumstantial Evidence wrote: FT Diomedes wrote: Eve needs new and interesting things for people to do, [...] This shallow stupid gameplay won't have the same effect. And neither will citadels, because they offer nothing to the individual pilot. I agree with many of your points, just want to take issue with the Citadel comment: they have been a good buff to industry with so many new modules needing to be built and hauled around; nothing was converted from "old pos." And if an individual pilot was using a POS in K-Space before, asset safety is better than losing contents of the corp/ship hanger. No it isn't - Losing a citadel when all you did previously was pull your pos down, can't be made "ok" with asset safety. Your still losing a minimum 3 billion isk asset..... No Citadel is anything like a pos - You could put together a well defended large pos for well under 1 bil. You can't build a citadel for under 2.5, so already your out of pocket 1.5 bil and that's before you look at fitting out your new Citadel (if it survives its first invul period where it has no fittings at all). Even if it survives to be fit out, a medium citadel is far easier to kill than any large defended pos. The only real difference (for the individual) between the two, in highsec at least, you could just pull your pos down during a wardec where as your Citadel is going to die. The N+1 factor built into everything Eve means, unless you have the most on grid - You lose. Industry guys and gals may well be profiteering from Citadels but they are the only ones reaping any benefit from them thus far. Will this change - Not likely; they just cost too much to risk using them as intended. Bit of a shame the increased taxes and broker fees add no benefit except for CCP and drive prices up so much. My opinions are mine. If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Morrigan LeSante Black Omega Security The OSS 1410	Posted - 2016.05.19 12:35:19 - [2231] - Quote Citadels are a game changer in WH man.
Lan Wang Knights of the Posing Meat FETID 2889	Posted - 2016.05.19 13:21:47 - [2232] - Quote Did they change the title of this thread? FETID now recruiting pvp pilots & corporations \| lowsec pvp & piracy - Join FETID Loyalist to Angel Cartel & Serpentis
Mizhir TURN LEFT 74791	Posted - 2016.05.19 13:23:57 - [2233] - Quote Lan Wang wrote: Did they change the title of this thread? It did look odd to me as well and then I checked the first post and if you mouseover the "Edited by: CCP Falcon" part you can see that it was done today One Man Crew - Collective Solo PVP - Video is out!
Lan Wang Knights of the Posing Meat FETID 2894	Posted - 2016.05.19 14:10:54 - [2234] - Quote well it hits tq in 5 days, nice job ccp FETID now recruiting pvp pilots & corporations \| lowsec pvp & piracy - Join FETID Loyalist to Angel Cartel & Serpentis
Fermin Mascagranzas Uranus Intruders Test Alliance Please Ignore 28	Posted - 2016.05.19 14:24:04 - [2235] - Quote Well, it was kinda of inevitable. I just joined this game one year ago and its from 2003, it couldn-¦t resist unfucked too much more time I just regret not having started here some more years ago.
GameWimp Umangiar Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire 0	Posted - 2016.05.19 14:38:23 - [2236] - Quote I like this :) 10k sp is not alot. Even if this is a daily task you can do, no one is forcing you to take part every single day. I'm not willing to log on to every character I have to pop an NPC everyday :) And I like that this is for killing NPC's and not for killing a player. If it would have been for a player kill it would wreck havoc on new players in highsec.
LTH Roths University of Caille Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2016.05.19 14:50:48 - [2237] - Quote Good job CCP, nice to see new features and updates added, roll on 5 days time. :-)
Matt Faithbringer Tax Services 30	Posted - 2016.05.19 14:59:53 - [2238] - Quote CCP Rise wrote: ... every 22 hours (limited one character per account per day ... Did you consider ditching the 22-hours thing and just use downtime as separator? The maximum number of skillpoints would still be the same (well, technically lower), but it would be way easier to track (for me). I would have to remember "did I kill the rat today" instead of "at what exact time did I kill the ****** again?"..
Binadas Overload This 16	Posted - 2016.05.19 15:00:32 - [2239] - Quote OK so a short but highly relevant quesiton: Why isn't the first PVP kill also being incentivised in the same way? Think about it. PVP content is not inferior to PVE content so should not be less incentivised. A PVP kill is arguably harder to obtain, so less easy to farm. The login you generate from this incentive will create more overall content within the game than say, someone who logs into their nullsec home, undocks in a hurricane, warps to belt and kills 1 frigate rat, before docking back up and logging off. PVP can tend to get you playing eve unexpectedly, if something cool and emergent happens. The arbitrary task of killing one rat does not necessarily have anything in it that would keep you logged in longer than your first rat. Incentivising the first PVP kill of the day equally to the first PVE kill actually encourages people to participate in the kind of activity that sells Eve Online. Killing a belt rat does not sell eve online and bring new players. The potential for large scale, complex and emergent PVP with real consequences is usually what new people talk about when asked why they came to Eve. With only the PVE kill incentisised, you send a message that you don't value the content that us PVP focused players bring to the game as much as you value someone undocking and killing a rat, possibly without even interacting with another player. You also force us to basically go out of our way daily to complete a boring, arbitrary and inconsequential task in order to receive the same incentives as say, a hisec mission runner. To put this in perspective, 10kSp/day is a significant boost, with many characters only getting about 50k SP/day with their normal training. While a mission runner or nullsec ratter will receive this reward almost by default every day, without otherwise altering their schedule, as a wormhole resident who makes their isk through non-pve means, I will have to buy some t1 ship especially for this, and find a rat to kill every single day. Can't I unlock my 10k SP by logging my trading toon on and updating a few orders? I don't see how this type of login or playstyle is any less legitimate than logging in to kill a single rat. Isn't eve supposed to be a sandbox?
Lan Wang Knights of the Posing Meat FETID 2893	Posted - 2016.05.19 15:03:34 - [2240] - Quote Binadas wrote: OK so a short but highly relevant quesiton: Why isn't the first PVP kill also being incentivised in the same way? Think about it. PVP content is not inferior to PVE content so should not be less incentivised. A PVP kill is arguably harder to obtain, so less easy to farm. The login you generate from this incentive will create more overall content within the game than say, someone who logs into their nullsec home, undocks in a hurricane, warps to belt and kills 1 frigate rat, before docking back up and logging off. PVP can tend to get you playing eve unexpectedly, if something cool and emergent happens. The arbitrary task of killing one rat does not necessarily have anything in it that would keep you logged in longer than your first rat. Incentivising the first PVP kill of the day equally to the first PVE kill actually encourages people to participate in the kind of activity that sells Eve Online. Killing a belt rat does not sell eve online and bring new players. The potential for large scale, complex and emergent PVP with real consequences is usually what new people talk about when asked why they came to Eve. With only the PVE kill incentisised, you send a message that you don't value the content that us PVP focused players bring to the game as much as you value someone undocking and killing a rat, possibly without even interacting with another player. You also force us to basically go out of our way daily to complete a boring, arbitrary and inconsequential task in order to receive the same incentives as say, a hisec mission runner. To put this in perspective, 10kSp/day is a significant boost, with many characters only getting about 50k SP/day with their normal training. While a mission runner or nullsec ratter will receive this reward almost by default every day, without otherwise altering their schedule, as a wormhole resident who makes their isk through non-pve means, I will have to buy some t1 ship especially for this, and find a rat to kill every single day. Can't I unlock my 10k SP by logging my trading toon on and updating a few orders? I don't see how this type of login or playstyle is any less legitimate than logging in to kill a single rat. Isn't eve supposed to be a sandbox? because they couldnt be bothered thinking about pvp, they just wanted to get the numbers up fast FETID now recruiting pvp pilots & corporations \| lowsec pvp & piracy - Join FETID Loyalist to Angel Cartel & Serpentis
NovaCat13 Seymourus and Co. 207	Posted - 2016.05.19 15:05:30 - [2241] - Quote Binadas wrote: Isn't eve supposed to be a sandbox? We were wrong. Just say NO to Dailies
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 2827	Posted - 2016.05.19 15:06:24 - [2242] - Quote Binadas wrote: OK so a short but highly relevant quesiton: Why isn't the first PVP kill also being incentivised in the same way? Because killing your own alt or your friend in a rookie ship is all that much more engaging?
Matt Faithbringer Tax Services 30	Posted - 2016.05.19 15:06:26 - [2243] - Quote Binadas wrote: ... A PVP kill is arguably harder to obtain, so less easy to farm ... Yeah because killing alt in ibis is much harder than finding a rat. Oh wait...
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 2827	Posted - 2016.05.19 15:08:14 - [2244] - Quote Matt Faithbringer wrote: Binadas wrote: ... A PVP kill is arguably harder to obtain, so less easy to farm ... Yeah because killing alt in ibis is much harder than finding a rat. Oh wait... It's harder if you are an actual newbie while being just as stupidly easy for anyone established in the game.
Lan Wang Knights of the Posing Meat FETID 2893	Posted - 2016.05.19 15:08:45 - [2245] - Quote Matt Faithbringer wrote: Binadas wrote: ... A PVP kill is arguably harder to obtain, so less easy to farm ... Yeah because killing alt in ibis is much harder than finding a rat. Oh wait... atleast ccp are getting 2 logins for the price of 1 huh FETID now recruiting pvp pilots & corporations \| lowsec pvp & piracy - Join FETID Loyalist to Angel Cartel & Serpentis
LTH Roths University of Caille Gallente Federation 1	Posted - 2016.05.19 15:10:32 - [2246] - Quote Lan Wang wrote: Matt Faithbringer wrote: Binadas wrote: ... A PVP kill is arguably harder to obtain, so less easy to farm ... Yeah because killing alt in ibis is much harder than finding a rat. Oh wait... atleast ccp are getting 2 logins for the price of 1 huh Not really, a couple of friends could agree to kill each others ibis every day without creating any new accounts. Just sayin lol
Dental Assistant Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 0	Posted - 2016.05.19 15:10:59 - [2247] - Quote Stop ruining this game, please.
Matt Faithbringer Tax Services 30	Posted - 2016.05.19 15:15:39 - [2248] - Quote CCP Rise wrote: Okay, let's see if I can provide some context for our decision to add daily opportunities to eve and maybe answer some of your bigger questions. Why Dailies? So first lets talk a little history. EVE had a daily logon incentive for most of it's existence: the 24 hour skill queue limit. Back in Phoebe, we removed those limitations. Now, at the time, we were of two minds internally. We didn't like the experience around being punished for not logging in to update your queue, but also knew that some of those logins might be leading to meaningful gameplay and we shouldn't lightly let go of them. We leaned to the side of a better experience and removed the limitations, hoping that the logins we were generating were fairly empty, rarely leading to more actual activity in the universe. Well, it turns out we were wrong about that. Now, with before and after data we can see that making it into the client is a huge step towards real activity, even if the reason for logging in in the first place seems artificial. So this leads us to where we are now, attempting to find ways to create more logins that also don't feel like such a punishment as the skill queue limitations did. This may not turn out to be the perfect alternative but that's what we're looking for. Why Skillpoints? There's been a lot of feedback here that this kind of feature would be acceptable if the rewards were more monetary, either LP or ISK or something similar. There's a few reasons that doesn't really work and we feel pulled towards SP. I think the biggest one is that many people simply won't be motivated by LP or ISK, especially in the amounts we would be restricted to giving. SP simply has higher demand across more playstyles and player ages and that just makes it a more powerful incentive. Second big reason that we actually tried designs using item and ISK rewards and it quickly creates a lot of economic imbalances. Any time we are giving something away without much activity cost we are heavily sabotaging someone's gameplay. Whether it's because of devaluing LP, causing major inflation, or crashing item markets, it's all bad for you guys so we would rather avoid it. Why so lazy? Lots of feedback about the feature having such a minimalist implementation. First, let me clear up some confusion by saying that this feature has no relationship with the 'Tribute' system that was described last year at EVE Vegas. That feature has actually gone down a path more focused on goal setting and long term engagement than daily activity and so the daily part was broken off and given to our team separately. With that in mind, we are trying to find the right mix of activity and accessibility. We want you to be able to collect this reward during a lunch break or a 10 minute period where your kids are in timeout but also want to make sure there's some real gameplay associated with it. We think getting to a belt or gate for an NPC is about the right mix and that's why we've landed with this. That said, we've also deliberately tried to keep it simple so that we can deploy fast and adjust based on how it gets used. We are absolutely open to expanding the list of activities in the future and imagined that as one of the most likely first iterations. Small sidenote on activities: many of you mentioned PVP, remember that this is always problematic because the most effective way to PVP for rewards is just kill your own alt, which isn't very fun or interesting. New players Seeing a lot of talk about this feature in the context of new players and I can just say that this is not a new player targeted feature. We hope it's good for new players as well but for the feature to be successful it needs to be relevant to everyone. Wow CCP And finally the traditional MMO comparisons. While I found most of these comments to be the most entertaining, it's pretty absurd to think that any feature which can be found in a traditional MMO appearing in EVE means we are headed down the road to battlegrounds and dragon killing. If you look at Citadel feature list you should not have any concerns about our commitment to the EVE sandbox and the hardcore nature of our game. Hope some of this helps. We are taking your feedback seriously and if we don't make any changes before release we will absolutely be following up shortly after release with changes based on feedback and behavior. Do mission NPCs count towards this daily thingy?
Binadas Overload This 16	Posted - 2016.05.19 15:18:41 - [2249] - Quote LTH Roths wrote: Lan Wang wrote: Matt Faithbringer wrote: Binadas wrote: ... A PVP kill is arguably harder to obtain, so less easy to farm ... Yeah because killing alt in ibis is much harder than finding a rat. Oh wait... atleast ccp are getting 2 logins for the price of 1 huh Not really, a couple of friends could agree to kill each others ibis every day without creating any new accounts. Just sayin lol But if I can weigh in again, all of you guys who are saying "yeah but how easy is it to kill a friend in an ibis" are missing the point a little. Even if people did just farm eachother in Ibis (which btw would be easy to prevent +í la killmark ship restrictions, or value restrictions etc), the strong argument is that this still creates a more meaningful login and interaction (hey two people actually communicated and arranged to farm eachother!), than logging in solo, talking to no one, and killing one rat. So even if it seems like it could be gamed, in reality we see that even if it is gamed, it is still better than killing one rat, right?
Tetsel Asocial Club 263	Posted - 2016.05.19 15:19:15 - [2250] - Quote The -10 community thank you for this marvellous useless lazy sandbox feature. Loyal servent to Mother Amamake. @EVE_Tetsel Another Bittervet Please Ignore
LTH Roths University of Caille Gallente Federation 1	Posted - 2016.05.19 15:21:05 - [2251] - Quote CCP Rise wrote: Okay, let's see if I can provide some context for our decision to add daily opportunities to eve and maybe answer some of your bigger questions. Wow CCP And finally the traditional MMO comparisons. While I found most of these comments to be the most entertaining, it's pretty absurd to think that any feature which can be found in a traditional MMO appearing in EVE means we are headed down the road to battlegrounds and dragon killing. If you look at Citadel feature list you should not have any concerns about our commitment to the EVE sandbox and the hardcore nature of our game. Hope some of this helps. We are taking your feedback seriously and if we don't make any changes before release we will absolutely be following up shortly after release with changes based on feedback and behavior. But, but, CCP Rise, battlegrounds and dragon killing sound like great new features.
Ashterothi Aideron Robotics 400	Posted - 2016.05.19 15:27:20 - [2252] - Quote It is disappointing to see my analysis go without so much as a comment from CCP. http://crossingzebras.com/dailies-in-eve-a-design-challenge/ Once again, it isn't the reward, it is the system itself that is screwed. Release it like this and you seriously limit your ability to do great things with the feature in the future. Listen to Hydrostatic Podcast for all your Empyrean needs!
Phteven Hackett Overload This 1	Posted - 2016.05.19 15:35:45 - [2253] - Quote Dear CCP Rise. Is logging into an account, shooting a rat, logging out good gameplay? Or would you rather have the person with 20 training accounts spend that time actually creating content and have fun? Cause it sounds like you don't want us to play the game at all. It sounds like you want us to burn out doing silly chores to uptain our perfect training, burn out and go play some game that doesn't seem like such a chore.. From my perspective, you missed the spot. I would be a lot more happy with a simple log-in bonus and while stats show this to not be successfull, these stats are also not from games where people run 20, 30, 40 accounts, and it looks like you forgot to account for that. Remember, your stats are useless if you aren't able to use them properly. Please reconsider making EVE a chore, cause tbh.. I can find so many other games I would rather spend my time on, than looking at a Highsec belt and a login screen. Thanks.
Mr Mac Dark Goliath 139	Posted - 2016.05.19 15:40:59 - [2254] - Quote Matt Faithbringer wrote: CCP Rise wrote: Okay, let's see if I can provide some context for our decision to add daily opportunities to eve and maybe answer some of your bigger questions. Why Dailies? So first lets talk a little history. EVE had a daily logon incentive for most of it's existence: the 24 hour skill queue limit. Back in Phoebe, we removed those limitations. Now, at the time, we were of two minds internally. We didn't like the experience around being punished for not logging in to update your queue, but also knew that some of those logins might be leading to meaningful gameplay and we shouldn't lightly let go of them. We leaned to the side of a better experience and removed the limitations, hoping that the logins we were generating were fairly empty, rarely leading to more actual activity in the universe. Well, it turns out we were wrong about that. Now, with before and after data we can see that making it into the client is a huge step towards real activity, even if the reason for logging in in the first place seems artificial. So this leads us to where we are now, attempting to find ways to create more logins that also don't feel like such a punishment as the skill queue limitations did. This may not turn out to be the perfect alternative but that's what we're looking for. Why Skillpoints? There's been a lot of feedback here that this kind of feature would be acceptable if the rewards were more monetary, either LP or ISK or something similar. There's a few reasons that doesn't really work and we feel pulled towards SP. I think the biggest one is that many people simply won't be motivated by LP or ISK, especially in the amounts we would be restricted to giving. SP simply has higher demand across more playstyles and player ages and that just makes it a more powerful incentive. Second big reason that we actually tried designs using item and ISK rewards and it quickly creates a lot of economic imbalances. Any time we are giving something away without much activity cost we are heavily sabotaging someone's gameplay. Whether it's because of devaluing LP, causing major inflation, or crashing item markets, it's all bad for you guys so we would rather avoid it. Why so lazy? Lots of feedback about the feature having such a minimalist implementation. First, let me clear up some confusion by saying that this feature has no relationship with the 'Tribute' system that was described last year at EVE Vegas. That feature has actually gone down a path more focused on goal setting and long term engagement than daily activity and so the daily part was broken off and given to our team separately. With that in mind, we are trying to find the right mix of activity and accessibility. We want you to be able to collect this reward during a lunch break or a 10 minute period where your kids are in timeout but also want to make sure there's some real gameplay associated with it. We think getting to a belt or gate for an NPC is about the right mix and that's why we've landed with this. That said, we've also deliberately tried to keep it simple so that we can deploy fast and adjust based on how it gets used. We are absolutely open to expanding the list of activities in the future and imagined that as one of the most likely first iterations. Small sidenote on activities: many of you mentioned PVP, remember that this is always problematic because the most effective way to PVP for rewards is just kill your own alt, which isn't very fun or interesting. New players Seeing a lot of talk about this feature in the context of new players and I can just say that this is not a new player targeted feature. We hope it's good for new players as well but for the feature to be successful it needs to be relevant to everyone. Wow CCP And finally the traditional MMO comparisons. While I found most of these comments to be the most entertaining, it's pretty absurd to think that any feature which can be found in a traditional MMO appearing in EVE means we are headed down the road to battlegrounds and dragon killing. If you look at Citadel feature list you should not have any concerns about our commitment to the EVE sandbox and the hardcore nature of our game. Hope some of this helps. We are taking your feedback seriously and if we don't make any changes before release we will absolutely be following up shortly after release with changes based on feedback and behavior. Do mission NPCs count towards this daily thingy? Yes
FT Diomedes The Graduates 2554	Posted - 2016.05.19 16:16:18 - [2255] - Quote Binadas wrote: LTH Roths wrote: Lan Wang wrote: Matt Faithbringer wrote: Binadas wrote: ... A PVP kill is arguably harder to obtain, so less easy to farm ... Yeah because killing alt in ibis is much harder than finding a rat. Oh wait... atleast ccp are getting 2 logins for the price of 1 huh Not really, a couple of friends could agree to kill each others ibis every day without creating any new accounts. Just sayin lol But if I can weigh in again, all of you guys who are saying "yeah but how easy is it to kill a friend in an ibis" are missing the point a little. Even if people did just farm eachother in Ibis (which btw would be easy to prevent +í la killmark ship restrictions, or value restrictions etc), the strong argument is that this still creates a more meaningful login and interaction (hey two people actually communicated and arranged to farm eachother!), than logging in solo, talking to no one, and killing one rat. So even if it seems like it could be gamed, in reality we see that even if it is gamed, it is still better than killing one rat, right? Exactly. CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 2828	Posted - 2016.05.19 16:23:11 - [2256] - Quote Phteven Hackett wrote: Dear CCP Rise. Is logging into an account, shooting a rat, logging out good gameplay? Or would you rather have the person with 20 training accounts spend that time actually creating content and have fun? Cause it sounds like you don't want us to play the game at all. It sounds like you want us to burn out doing silly chores to uptain our perfect training, burn out and go play some game that doesn't seem like such a chore.. From my perspective, you missed the spot. I would be a lot more happy with a simple log-in bonus and while stats show this to not be successfull, these stats are also not from games where people run 20, 30, 40 accounts, and it looks like you forgot to account for that. Remember, your stats are useless if you aren't able to use them properly. Please reconsider making EVE a chore, cause tbh.. I can find so many other games I would rather spend my time on, than looking at a Highsec belt and a login screen. Thanks. From my perspective, you are planning on willingly do something optional you dislike just because you personally can't pass up the reward and would rather burn out doing it than just accepting that you enjoy something else more in the game than logging in to kill a rat and just forgetting about it because sandbox games should be played by doing what you like and not what is the most optimal. But hey, it's your own personal time so you can do whatever you want with it even if it mean turning a game into a job.
Aelavaine University of Caille Gallente Federation 84	Posted - 2016.05.19 16:32:58 - [2257] - Quote Coolie! I like how CCP cares nothing about the opinion of its customers. Like a ganker cares about its victim. If you don't like it, just unsub for a few months. That's the only language CCP understands. Everything else is a waste of your time. You want more content and more things to do in EVE? Support Avatar Gameplay!
Circumstantial Evidence 311	Posted - 2016.05.19 16:35:14 - [2258] - Quote Binadas wrote:"Why isn't the first PVP kill also being incentivised in the same way?" Mild sarcasm here: Don't panic: shooting any NPC is merely the FIRST 'recurring opportunity.' The icon bar I have seen on the test server has plenty of room for expansion. The re-branding from 'daily' to 'recurring' says that this or future 'opportunities' may occur over different time scales. The protesters have had their say; I think the statistical measure of "increased/declined/no change" in login activity after May 24 tied to this feature is all CCP cares about. It won't change my personal login pattern, but some say they may feel compelled to for the reward, thus perhaps "feature working," in those cases. (Good CZ article, Ashterothi.) From the description on the EVE Updates site: "With the discovery of new consciousness manipulation techniques by a group of New EdenGÇÖs most brilliant neuropsychologists..." Way to go CCP, no sugar-coating on this bitter pill, you're telling it like it is ;)
Jhousetlin Zamayid Pathway to the Next 38	Posted - 2016.05.19 16:42:42 - [2259] - Quote Dorijan wrote: Let's add the worst feature of any MMO - daily chores - to EVE Online. What could possibly go wrong? EVE already has tons of chores. Even if all you do is PvP, you still have chores just to survive - logistics, making a little ISK, etc.
Galdrielle Childari NRDS Anonyme Echoes of Nowhere 0	Posted - 2016.05.19 16:48:37 - [2260] - Quote SP by day? Maybe no. LP by day? Why not. But, not 10K LP^^. No?
Zathra Narazi Caldari Colonial Defense Ministry Templis CALSF 20	Posted - 2016.05.19 17:33:27 - [2261] - Quote CCP Rise wrote: Hi I'm here to give you guys a heads up that sometime early next week a small daily activity reward feature will be hitting Singularity and will hopefully be making its way to TQ sometime just after Citadel. As you guys surely know, having people in game and in space is great and we want to start promoting and rewarding activity a little more directly. The version of the feature we are planning to deploy first will be a simple 10,000 skill point reward that a character will receive the first time they kill an NPC ship every 22 hours (limited one character per account per day, chosen based on which character completes the task first). The skillpoints will go into your unallocated pool to be used however you like. You will find the status of your daily skill boost in the Opportunities info panel and you will also receive notifications to let you know when it becomes available. That's it for now. If this goes well we hope to expand in several ways, but more on that later! Feedback appreciate as always, CCP Rise for Team Size Matters Responding to feedback Cool, thanks. Jhousetlin Zamayid wrote: Dorijan wrote: Let's add the worst feature of any MMO - daily chores - to EVE Online. What could possibly go wrong? EVE already has tons of chores. Even if all you do is PvP, you still have chores just to survive - logistics, making a little ISK, etc. Nobody is forcing you to do it if you don't want to. It's not like your SP rate will decrease compared to now if you don't do it. And warping to the nearest belt or gate and killing 1 rat takes seconds.
Vol Arm'OOO Central Co-Prosperity Union 812	Posted - 2016.05.19 17:33:57 - [2262] - Quote Matt Faithbringer wrote: Binadas wrote: ... A PVP kill is arguably harder to obtain, so less easy to farm ... Yeah because killing alt in ibis is much harder than finding a rat. Oh wait... make it so newb ships, shuttles and pods dont count - there problem solved. I don't play, I just fourm warrior.
Capqu Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 1195	Posted - 2016.05.19 17:39:15 - [2263] - Quote >2018 >queue up in space dungeon finder for space violet hold >while waiting for space dungeon finder collect my dailies and kill 10 space boars get 24 space gold and 90 space silver >space violet hold pops, hopefully i got a good space group. looks like the space tank isn't too badly space geared >finish space violet hold and collect my 3 badges of space justice >just a few more space weeks and i'll have enough space badges of justice to buy a sansha's true warp disruptor of the eagle >idle in space dalaran for a few hours reading about the upcoming space badges of heroism which will reward slightly better space gear >smile and queue up for another space dungeon https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPntjTPWgKE
Lan Wang Knights of the Posing Meat FETID 2894	Posted - 2016.05.19 17:42:49 - [2264] - Quote Capqu wrote: >2018 >queue up in space dungeon finder for space violet hold >while waiting for space dungeon finder collect my dailies and kill 10 space boars get 24 space gold and 90 space silver >space violet hold pops, hopefully i got a good space group. looks like the space tank isn't too badly space geared >finish space violet hold and collect my 3 badges of space justice >just a few more space weeks and i'll have enough space badges of justice to buy a sansha's true warp disruptor of the eagle >idle in space dalaran for a few hours reading about the upcoming space badges of heroism which will reward slightly better space gear >smile and queue up for another space dungeon this is golden FETID now recruiting pvp pilots & corporations \| lowsec pvp & piracy - Join FETID Loyalist to Angel Cartel & Serpentis
Memnon Shepard Rifterlings Zero.Four Ops 25	Posted - 2016.05.19 17:55:09 - [2265] - Quote I'd be interested to hear what led CCP to believe it was specifically the removal of the 24-hr skill queue that led to reduced logins vs. other game design decisions. If CCP wants greater player interaction and to attract the "I have 30 minutes to play" crowd, they should focus on filling Eve with features you can have fun completing in 30 minutes. As the product currently stands, they haven't been able to make new features attractive without making other aspects of the game tedious/annoying/more expensive.
Rivr Luzade Kenshin. DARKNESS. 2511	Posted - 2016.05.19 17:57:09 - [2266] - Quote Binadas wrote: So even if it seems like it could be gamed, in reality we see that even if it is gamed, it is still better than killing one rat, right? Where's the difference between killing a rat and killing an alt? Next to no one will do what you naively dream up and those who do, log in, kill each other and log off again. Just as meaningless as killing a rat. Besides: You can also log in with friends, to hunt a rat, kill them together and communicate and interact. I do not see any difference, except for that you can't game killing a rat versus killing a player. On the other hand, I will be kinda happy about it. I can over time skill something on my alt that is not training and keep the other char on that account training at the same time without having to pay extra for MCT. Even if I am opposed to the dailies, I will abuse that system to that end. UI Improvement Collective My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Mizhir TURN LEFT 74792	Posted - 2016.05.19 18:05:23 - [2267] - Quote Capqu wrote: >2018 >queue up in space dungeon finder for space violet hold >while waiting for space dungeon finder collect my dailies and kill 10 space boars get 24 space gold and 90 space silver >space violet hold pops, hopefully i got a good space group. looks like the space tank isn't too badly space geared >finish space violet hold and collect my 3 badges of space justice >just a few more space weeks and i'll have enough space badges of justice to buy a sansha's true warp disruptor of the eagle >idle in space dalaran for a few hours reading about the upcoming space badges of heroism which will reward slightly better space gear >smile and queue up for another space dungeon Don't forget space arenas! They are gonna save the trouble of roaming. One Man Crew - Collective Solo PVP - Video is out!
Zyklon Stargazer Laser Tech Inc. 13	Posted - 2016.05.19 18:26:51 - [2268] - Quote I support the daily bonus, I think its a great idea. Now what we still need: a proper jukebox, and walking in stations.
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 2830	Posted - 2016.05.19 18:40:01 - [2269] - Quote Vol Arm'OOO wrote: Matt Faithbringer wrote: Binadas wrote: ... A PVP kill is arguably harder to obtain, so less easy to farm ... Yeah because killing alt in ibis is much harder than finding a rat. Oh wait... make it so newb ships, shuttles and pods dont count - there problem solved. Because people won't slowly burn a stash of unfitted T1 frigs like condors for example...
Xargun X-Industries and Design 1	Posted - 2016.05.19 18:45:23 - [2270] - Quote Zyklon Stargazer wrote: I support the daily bonus, I think its a great idea. Now what we still need: a proper jukebox, and walking in stations. Walking in Stations ??? CCP promised that too us about 6 years ago... You must have missed it.
Lumpymayo Jebediah Kerman's Junkyard and Spaceship Parts Co. I N F A M O U S 104	Posted - 2016.05.19 19:13:44 - [2271] - Quote Please consider people like me who worked very hard to get a true -10.0000 security status. Forcing me to kill npc's will ruin my achievement. It would have very nice if this bonus applies to any pvp or pve kill. How can I not kill a rat for the 10,000 sp, I feel like I am being forced to lose my security status.
Neadayan Drakhon Heuristic Industrial And Development AddictClan 206	Posted - 2016.05.19 19:16:32 - [2272] - Quote https://community.eveonline.com/news/news-channels/eve-online-news/first-recurring-opportunity-to-be-deployed-on-2016-05-24/ So CCP has decided to ignore its player base and go full steam ahead with this abomination of an idea. CCP, GET A CLUE, NO DAILIES.
T-Jay Charante Black Sun Industry and Research 32	Posted - 2016.05.19 19:21:58 - [2273] - Quote Neadayan Drakhon wrote: https://community.eveonline.com/news/news-channels/eve-online-news/first-recurring-opportunity-to-be-deployed-on-2016-05-24/ So CCP has decided to ignore its player base and go full steam ahead with this abomination of an idea. CCP, GET A CLUE, NO DAILIES. Yip, CCP decided the 3 people against this idea was the majority of the player base.
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 2830	Posted - 2016.05.19 19:32:42 - [2274] - Quote Lumpymayo wrote: Please consider people like me who worked very hard to get a true -10.0000 security status. Forcing me to kill npc's will ruin my achievement. It would have very nice if this bonus applies to any pvp or pve kill. How can I not kill a rat for the 10,000 sp, I feel like I am being forced to lose my security status. Just ignore it if your -10 sec status is more important than SP. Only you can really make that choice.
00000000000000000000000 000000000001 Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 0	Posted - 2016.05.19 19:34:23 - [2275] - Quote All these haters First, against jump fatigue then against injectors now, against dailies Its good for us all to see that one of biggest problems in eve, is the old players trying to rule it - its always here, between us in every change announced by CCP. 500k playerbase, and always, always the same whiners crying here like kids. Make it better for beginners. Dailies are a good idea, keep it rolling CCP o7 These tears are so sweet, i am loving it. If you dont like the changes, quit the game We dont need, even in RL people that dont want changes. GTFO
Lan Wang Knights of the Posing Meat FETID 2899	Posted - 2016.05.19 19:36:15 - [2276] - Quote wish they would change it so forum alts couldnt post on the forums FETID now recruiting pvp pilots & corporations \| lowsec pvp & piracy - Join FETID Loyalist to Angel Cartel & Serpentis
Neadayan Drakhon Heuristic Industrial And Development AddictClan 208	Posted - 2016.05.19 19:37:49 - [2277] - Quote T-Jay Charante wrote: Neadayan Drakhon wrote: https://community.eveonline.com/news/news-channels/eve-online-news/first-recurring-opportunity-to-be-deployed-on-2016-05-24/ So CCP has decided to ignore its player base and go full steam ahead with this abomination of an idea. CCP, GET A CLUE, NO DAILIES. Yip, CCP decided the 3 people against this idea was the majority of the player base. read the thread, there are far more than 3 of us against this yeah, its a long thread, but if you can't be bothered to at least skim through and see how many people are against it then don't make up numbers
FT Diomedes The Graduates 2555	Posted - 2016.05.19 19:38:01 - [2278] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: Vol Arm'OOO wrote: Matt Faithbringer wrote: Binadas wrote: ... A PVP kill is arguably harder to obtain, so less easy to farm ... Yeah because killing alt in ibis is much harder than finding a rat. Oh wait... make it so newb ships, shuttles and pods dont count - there problem solved. Because people won't slowly burn a stash of unfitted T1 frigs like condors for example... Even if they do: 1. While shooting that T1 ship, they are undocked, in space, with at least a one minute weapons timer. 2. Someone has to mine the minerals, build, and transport those T1 ships. 3. People will have the choice to play the game the way they want and complete the daily via PVP. This reemphasizes Eve's fundamental PVP nature. CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.
Neadayan Drakhon Heuristic Industrial And Development AddictClan 208	Posted - 2016.05.19 19:40:55 - [2279] - Quote 00000000000000000000000 000000000001 wrote: All these haters First, against jump fatigue then against injectors now, against dailies Jump fatigue was a good idea in principle, limits force projection injectors and dailies are bad ideas, the former should never have been implemented, and should be removed, the latter should not be implemented
wy3rn Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 1	Posted - 2016.05.19 19:56:40 - [2280] - Quote I like the idea that mean 300.000 SP if you kill one frigate npc per day at mounth max at mounth its 1.980.000 SP So for active players +300.000 its good incentive to have more players ho can give PVP and DROP the price of PLEX and make a lot of PVP. 1.980.000 + 300.000 = 2.280.000 SP/mounth I like the idea DROP PLEX price and more PVP players. and build quickly new alts with price drop of extractor and injectors items. The limit of 10.000 SP per day and per acount its excelent because its good to pay the PLEX with stuff wath i ganked. because play just for PVP its no so fun when you play for PVP strategy and pay the suscription with PLEX.
T-Jay Charante Black Sun Industry and Research 33	Posted - 2016.05.19 20:01:03 - [2281] - Quote Neadayan Drakhon wrote: T-Jay Charante wrote: Neadayan Drakhon wrote: https://community.eveonline.com/news/news-channels/eve-online-news/first-recurring-opportunity-to-be-deployed-on-2016-05-24/ So CCP has decided to ignore its player base and go full steam ahead with this abomination of an idea. CCP, GET A CLUE, NO DAILIES. Yip, CCP decided the 3 people against this idea was the majority of the player base. read the thread, there are far more than 3 of us against this yeah, its a long thread, but if you can't be bothered to at least skim through and see how many people are against it then don't make up numbers Just because you don't like it, doesn't mean you speak for the whole if the play base.
Pryce Caesar Cloak and Daggers Fidelas Constans 83	Posted - 2016.05.19 20:01:20 - [2282] - Quote Michal Jita wrote: Just to double clarify, this is per character NOT per account? Mixed feelings either way as SP has always been a contentious issue, and skill injectors have only exagarated? One character PER account. It is a helpful boost to skill training, especially when you are dealing with high-multiplier skills. You know, the ones that can take over a month to train even when you have +5 implants and attributes redistributed for max training speed.
Sgt Ocker Kenshin. DARKNESS. 965	Posted - 2016.05.19 20:09:13 - [2283] - Quote FT Diomedes wrote: Frostys Virpio wrote: Vol Arm'OOO wrote: Matt Faithbringer wrote: Binadas wrote: ... A PVP kill is arguably harder to obtain, so less easy to farm ... Yeah because killing alt in ibis is much harder than finding a rat. Oh wait... make it so newb ships, shuttles and pods dont count - there problem solved. Because people won't slowly burn a stash of unfitted T1 frigs like condors for example... Even if they do: 1. While shooting that T1 ship, they are undocked, in space, with at least a one minute weapons timer. 2. Someone has to mine the minerals, build, and transport those T1 ships. 3. People will have the choice to play the game the way they want and complete the daily via PVP. This reemphasizes Eve's fundamental PVP nature. Any sort of "daily reward" involving PVP would be too easy to abuse.. If CCP has any idea of how this game is played and by whom, they will never introduce "rewards" for pvp. PS; T1 frigs, Condors and the like - A rookie in a noob ship can mine the minerals in less than an hour. My opinions are mine. If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
LTH Roths University of Caille Gallente Federation 1	Posted - 2016.05.19 20:22:26 - [2284] - Quote Neadayan Drakhon wrote: 00000000000000000000000 000000000001 wrote: All these haters First, against jump fatigue then against injectors now, against dailies Jump fatigue was a good idea in principle, limits force projection injectors and dailies are bad ideas, the former should never have been implemented, and should be removed, the latter should not be implemented Nothing wrong with skill injectors they are a great new feature, the dailys are meh do em or dont your choice but why should we be limited by what you want. Adapt or .... well you know. Good job CCP keep up the progress.
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 2831	Posted - 2016.05.19 20:30:34 - [2285] - Quote T-Jay Charante wrote: Just because you don't like it, doesn't mean you speak for the whole of the player base. CCP didn't ignore its player base, just small part of it. Seriously, like the idea or not, I don;t care but FFS stop putting a narrative in the mouth of the silent one. Nobody actually know what the vast majority of EVE think of that because they haven't voiced their opinion yet. CCP could be ignoring a grand total of 400 player right not or a grand total of 200,000 and we would not know any different because they are silent. The majority of EVE in this discussion is on neither side. Stop trying to make it look like they are on yours no matter which one that happen to be.
Memnon Shepard Rifterlings Zero.Four Ops 28	Posted - 2016.05.19 20:48:10 - [2286] - Quote Sgt Ocker wrote: Any sort of "daily reward" involving PVP would be too easy to abuse.. If CCP has any idea of how this game is played and by whom, they will never introduce "rewards" for pvp. PS; T1 frigs, Condors and the like - A rookie in a noob ship can mine the minerals in less than an hour. The barrier to entry of this activity is so low that it's silly to worry about people cheesing the system. "Abuse" isn't something to worry about when the difficulty level to match equates to killing any NPC. The request to expand the feature before implementing it is so certain people aren't punished in other ways by participating - losing a -10.0 sec status is a commonly cited example. Adding new success criteria would allow more people to participate without unforeseen penalties or needing to change their current out of game or in game lifestyles.
Tavari Minrathos Honey Badgers R US 16	Posted - 2016.05.19 20:54:09 - [2287] - Quote I'm a bit neutral or slightly positive about this idea. Personally, as a newer (~1 year) I like SP anyway I can get it. This feature would have been amazing for me as a new player as I was so excited for the game when I first started playing that I couldn't not log in. But as a WoW vet, I also despise dailies. Initially they were horrible, then they got better, then they got overwhelming, then they became unfun. If its just the one opportunity, I'll do it on most of my characters. (though many people need better reading comprehension regarding one character per 22 hour period per account) If it becomes a chore, I will stop doing it. I would like to see more ways of achieving this though. maybe jump 5-10 unique gates or something. I understand that It needs to involve getting players into space, so i'm having a hard time figuring out how to handle trading and things of that nature. (probably just use the profits from that character to buy an injector to get reasonable frigate skills) So if you say mining, my experience is that if you're mining in anything .7 or lower, rats will warp in on you before you fill a hold. Drones kill the rats, ding opportunity done. Killing other players, while I feel should be rewarded, can be gamed far to easily. I undock my main in a rookie ship/shuttle, all my alts blap it, my main reships and goes and kills someone else or one of my alts in a rookie ship. I would like some clarification surrounding the mechanics of the currently planned opportunity though. If I'm in a fleet when an NPC dies, do I get credit? Do I have to have the final blow? Just be on the 'kill mail'? Is aggressing the NPC enough? Does ewar count? Honestly, I'm don't think the 'more ways to get XP is bad' argument is valid.
Matt Faithbringer Tax Services 30	Posted - 2016.05.19 21:02:22 - [2288] - Quote Lumpymayo wrote: Please consider people like me who worked very hard to get a true -10.0000 security status. Forcing me to kill npc's will ruin my achievement. It would have very nice if this bonus applies to any pvp or pve kill. How can I not kill a rat for the 10,000 sp, I feel like I am being forced to lose my security status. just kill FW rats, should count too
Skyleth Bergen Jovian Disease Foundation 15	Posted - 2016.05.19 21:03:31 - [2289] - Quote I think the daily approaches the problem from the wrong direction. Personal context is I log in most days for a few hours at least (way too much). I almost never spend any time killing npcs, and only do so when some friends want to because I enjoy hanging out and playing the game with them. The reason I don't want to do it is because it isn't very fun, even though it generates isk I can use. Adding a small skill point reward isn't going to change how fun or not fun the activity you are rewarding is. In the short term it will probably get more people into space, but I'd wager they'll stop bothering with it soon enough. The goal with the addition of daily quests, because that's what they are, is to get more people to log in and get more people in space. But the better way to do that is probably to improve the experience of shooting npcs in the first place. You guys are working on that with npc behavior, and I think that's the right direction to go in. Copying features of other MMOs can be good, but I don't dailys fits well with this player base. You know they are older and have less time. The daily feature suggests a company struggling to get players to play and flailing wildly, and Eve players can smell weakness! You guys (CCP) are probably never going to multiply the player base unless you succeed at making another hit that still has integration into Eve Online. It's a long shot, but a good goal. The reinvention of Dust, project Legion or whatever its called now, sounds great. If you link the games together right, you can generate new Legion related things to do for Eve Online players (I dunno maybe they need us to build tanks or something), and the Eve Online players can supply a role playing narrative providing context for the fights that Legion players participate in. If that bridge works, I could see new people becoming interested in Eve Online. Worst comes to worst, Eve Online will shut down one day which is inevitable anyway. You guys are all highly employable so what do you have to worry about? Any way I'm rambling... TLDR: Double down on long term goals, eschew the desperate tactics employed by blizzard.
Darth Forum-Alt Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire 1	Posted - 2016.05.19 21:10:45 - [2290] - Quote I thought one of the things that made Eve Eve was the fact that you gain "exp" passively via skill queue, rather than actively by killing stuff. Besides, killing npcs is a huge income source, especially in 0.0. And since skill points have now been given a value in ISK via skill extractors/injectors, you're creating a way for players to make even more ISK off of ratting. Not that I have a problem with making more ISK from ratting, because I rat all the time. What I want to know is how that's going to affect the market. Will the increased number of ratters, as well as the increased sp, and therefore isk, gain devalue loot and salvage? I'm not entirely sure this is a good idea. Also... Syrias Bizniz wrote: Nice! That's up to: 3,981,818 SP per year according to my preschool math skills. I like it. A lot. A goon likes it, which means it is probably a terrible idea.
T-Jay Charante Black Sun Industry and Research 34	Posted - 2016.05.19 21:13:41 - [2291] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: T-Jay Charante wrote: Just because you don't like it, doesn't mean you speak for the whole of the player base. CCP didn't ignore its player base, just small part of it. Seriously, like the idea or not, I don;t care but FFS stop putting a narrative in the mouth of the silent one. Nobody actually know what the vast majority of EVE think of that because they haven't voiced their opinion yet. CCP could be ignoring a grand total of 400 player right not or a grand total of 200,000 and we would not know any different because they are silent. The majority of EVE in this discussion is on neither side. Stop trying to make it look like they are on yours no matter which one that happen to be. Sides? Narrative? Just reading various other forum outlets it's pretty clear that there is a fairly positive reaction to this. Implying CCP has once again gone against the player base isn't a healthy message to spread.
Neadayan Drakhon Heuristic Industrial And Development AddictClan 214	Posted - 2016.05.19 21:24:43 - [2292] - Quote T-Jay Charante wrote: Frostys Virpio wrote: T-Jay Charante wrote: Just because you don't like it, doesn't mean you speak for the whole of the player base. CCP didn't ignore its player base, just small part of it. Seriously, like the idea or not, I don;t care but FFS stop putting a narrative in the mouth of the silent one. Nobody actually know what the vast majority of EVE think of that because they haven't voiced their opinion yet. CCP could be ignoring a grand total of 400 player right not or a grand total of 200,000 and we would not know any different because they are silent. The majority of EVE in this discussion is on neither side. Stop trying to make it look like they are on yours no matter which one that happen to be. Sides? Narrative? Just reading various other forum outlets it's pretty clear that there is a fairly positive reaction to this. Implying CCP has once again gone against the player base isn't a healthy message to spread. you're cherrypicking, the majority of this thread is negative
T-Jay Charante Black Sun Industry and Research 34	Posted - 2016.05.19 21:27:59 - [2293] - Quote Neadayan Drakhon wrote: T-Jay Charante wrote: Frostys Virpio wrote: T-Jay Charante wrote: Just because you don't like it, doesn't mean you speak for the whole of the player base. CCP didn't ignore its player base, just small part of it. Seriously, like the idea or not, I don;t care but FFS stop putting a narrative in the mouth of the silent one. Nobody actually know what the vast majority of EVE think of that because they haven't voiced their opinion yet. CCP could be ignoring a grand total of 400 player right not or a grand total of 200,000 and we would not know any different because they are silent. The majority of EVE in this discussion is on neither side. Stop trying to make it look like they are on yours no matter which one that happen to be. Sides? Narrative? Just reading various other forum outlets it's pretty clear that there is a fairly positive reaction to this. Implying CCP has once again gone against the player base isn't a healthy message to spread. you're cherrypicking, the majority of this thread is negative Go and read for your self.
Layckhaie Kaele Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 15	Posted - 2016.05.19 21:36:31 - [2294] - Quote In my opinion this is a step in a wrong direction. The whole concept of 'dailies' goes against the spirit of EVE and what it is supposed to be (or claimed it was over the years). Furthermore the skill-point rewards feel equally wrong (why not give at least a small amount of Aurum instead? anything but skill points). EVE was supposed to be a sandbox game where you didn't have to level-up or grind skill points and yet you are implementing this toxic daily system so people can perform the most trivial and meaningless task or feel bad for missing out on (somewhat substantial) rewards. And for what? To artificially inflate login numbers? If the goal is player retention and increased activity there are so many cool alternatives you could implement. Why not give us something fun and exciting to do instead if you are so keen on dailies? How about 'convo a random person and write him/her 3 messages' to get the reward? Each day we could say hi to a random person, ask how their day is going and meet someone new. Maybe it's not the best idea but it's just an example. EVE is a social game, driven by player made content - why don't you use the game's strong points to your advantage? Really disappointing that a team of such creative individuals that work at CCP couldn't think of a better alternative than daily quests. If dailes are really so statistically vital at least you could put a spin on the system. Do something unique with it. Stand out from other games! But no, you picked the most boring, unimaginative, dreadful, mind numbing task of warping to a belt and killing a rat to get your daily reward. [i]--- My blog[/i] - Solo WH PVP \| http://eve-eternity.blogspot.com/
Princess Morenta Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 2	Posted - 2016.05.19 21:58:40 - [2295] - Quote Well their stated metrics are to measure if it increases player participation after login If we all log in, do the daily and log off afterwards - apparently they'll pull it according to CCP @ Fanfest... However Rise also said there wouldn't be SP being created out of thin air when skill injectors were being pitched so I think his word is about as trustworthy as those crazies telling us the Earth is flat.
Maetel Lithium Undead Dragons Dragon Knights Inc 10	Posted - 2016.05.19 22:38:18 - [2296] - Quote I personally like tje idea of rewarding effort in a way that one can't buy with ISK or more specifically, have the task more attractive to the average player then buying the reward with ISK. Skill points are a good example of this, But I think consumables or BPCs or othere rare or limited items should be available. They could even be 'genetically coded' the user, meaning they wouldn't work for other players. Tjese items could be booster or training acceleration items or things like Rigs or special ammo or modules that burn out after a period of use and don't come back. I would also lke to see these rewards given for more complex activities. Completing a PvE challenge like a mission, a signature, an anomaly, faction warfare complex or incursion site. Perhaps agents could spawn in space or create an anomaly that only you can see/warp to? The idea of such a thing appearing once per time period per player would be cool. I would lme to see a bunch of NPCs or unique anoms being spawned on a weekly basis. They would randomly spawn in system for a character once an hour, changing each hour for a player. If a player didn't like what he got (and it should be clear before triggering it what it is) then they can go to another system and a new one will spawn there or wait an hour and the one in the system you are in will cycle. Once you have completed a challenge, it will not appear for another week. You could even have this to specific missons, or anomalies so a player might have six or seven different reoccurring things he could do in a day or a week and they all reset at the same time, encouraging people to complete them all before the time runs out. Each one could have different challenge levels and give bigger rewards, perhaps some might even make you put up an amount or ISK as a deposit(like a courier contract,) or bet being placed before you can take the mission. This would encourage people to take greater risks and would act as an ISK sink upon failure. I'm going to propose an idea for a mew type of mission here, and I understand if it's just not possible logically but it would be hugely encouraging to see it doable. Imagine a mission that spawns an NPC is space and then creates a chase-like scenario. The NPC appears in an bookmark like a mission , but will not stay there. After it's first engagement, it would move to a celestial body somewhere the solar system. A timer begins. Every tme it is engaged, it fights until it's main tank is gon and then jumps somewhere else. (Not to a moon because POS guns but gates should be part of it.) Location it jumps to is semi-random and will eventually jump to a gate and change systems. It would stay in what ever consolation it's in until a timer is up and it 'escapes' and despawns. I am envisioning a system where the person who has the mission gets a notification every time the NPC warps to a new location and when it changes system along with what system it jumped to. The idea is to create a moving target for a gang of players can use different tactics, even some PVP type stuff. It would need to be tackled or bubbled, you would be able to se to drag bubbles for it, especially if you expect it to jump system and so know it's going to a gate next. I would also suggest these be available from the Bounty Office tab in stations. I hope a dev gives this some thought. As an aside, these are inspired by the Burner missions, which are super cool, but far too unpredictable. I wish I could ask my mission agents for Burner missions. Just a button that asks for a Burner mission next rather then a normal mission would be fine. I want to be able to chose to fly one rather then them upsetting a good flow I have with normal missions if that's what I'm doing.
Shakira Akira Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 33	Posted - 2016.05.20 00:30:55 - [2297] - Quote Neadayan Drakhon wrote: https://community.eveonline.com/news/news-channels/eve-online-news/first-recurring-opportunity-to-be-deployed-on-2016-05-24/ So CCP has decided to ignore its player base and go full steam ahead with this abomination of an idea. CCP, GET A CLUE, NO DAILIES. But they're not dailies.. they're RECURRING!!
Shakira Akira Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 33	Posted - 2016.05.20 00:37:17 - [2298] - Quote So changing the name to recurring because DAILIES was complained against.. Does not make the system any worse. I for one.. am speaking with my wallet. Subs won't be renewed. Wish I hadn't done the year thing as the accounts still go to october. I'm one of those that had PAID to keep the account going specifically so I can keep my training going while I'm away, often for many months, without the ability to log in more than maybe once or twice the entire time. Adding in new sources for SP, will have very long unintended consequences and I for one am not going to keep paying for the account especially since there's no need for it. I can just buy plex with isk., (thanks to SP injectors the cost is dropping like mad) and this feature will just add more SP to the injector pool.
Tweety Bird Tackled In Belt xXPlease Pandemic Citizens Reloaded Alliance.Xx 163	Posted - 2016.05.20 00:41:08 - [2299] - Quote 115 Forum Pages wrote: i think ur leaqin'
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 2832	Posted - 2016.05.20 00:46:37 - [2300] - Quote Layckhaie Kaele wrote: (why not give at least a small amount of Aurum instead? Because that would be shitting all over an income source?
Phteven Hackett Overload This 4	Posted - 2016.05.20 01:00:11 - [2301] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: Phteven Hackett wrote: Dear CCP Rise. Is logging into an account, shooting a rat, logging out good gameplay? Or would you rather have the person with 20 training accounts spend that time actually creating content and have fun? Cause it sounds like you don't want us to play the game at all. It sounds like you want us to burn out doing silly chores to uptain our perfect training, burn out and go play some game that doesn't seem like such a chore.. From my perspective, you missed the spot. I would be a lot more happy with a simple log-in bonus and while stats show this to not be successfull, these stats are also not from games where people run 20, 30, 40 accounts, and it looks like you forgot to account for that. Remember, your stats are useless if you aren't able to use them properly. Please reconsider making EVE a chore, cause tbh.. I can find so many other games I would rather spend my time on, than looking at a Highsec belt and a login screen. Thanks. From my perspective, you are planning on willingly do something optional you dislike just because you personally can't pass up the reward and would rather burn out doing it than just accepting that you enjoy something else more in the game than logging in to kill a rat and just forgetting about it because sandbox games should be played by doing what you like and not what is the most optimal. But hey, it's your own personal time so you can do whatever you want with it even if it mean turning a game into a job. Sure, but the point of this change is to make those accounts log in.. So if they don't, the dailys have still missed the mark...
Lianara Dayton Society for Peace and Unity 44	Posted - 2016.05.20 01:29:41 - [2302] - Quote I find these daily quest a terrible, terrible idea! Like WOW-in-Space level of terrible. So uncreative and boring and dimply a bad idea on so many levels... Lianara Dayton, Society for Peace and Unity
Mohammad Deraz An My I N F A M O U S 0	Posted - 2016.05.20 02:55:56 - [2303] - Quote This is The Best Thing You did because rewarding people with SP is good to make new players catch up to old ones, also make them reward isk
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 2832	Posted - 2016.05.20 03:37:17 - [2304] - Quote Phteven Hackett wrote: Frostys Virpio wrote: Phteven Hackett wrote: Dear CCP Rise. Is logging into an account, shooting a rat, logging out good gameplay? Or would you rather have the person with 20 training accounts spend that time actually creating content and have fun? Cause it sounds like you don't want us to play the game at all. It sounds like you want us to burn out doing silly chores to uptain our perfect training, burn out and go play some game that doesn't seem like such a chore.. From my perspective, you missed the spot. I would be a lot more happy with a simple log-in bonus and while stats show this to not be successfull, these stats are also not from games where people run 20, 30, 40 accounts, and it looks like you forgot to account for that. Remember, your stats are useless if you aren't able to use them properly. Please reconsider making EVE a chore, cause tbh.. I can find so many other games I would rather spend my time on, than looking at a Highsec belt and a login screen. Thanks. From my perspective, you are planning on willingly do something optional you dislike just because you personally can't pass up the reward and would rather burn out doing it than just accepting that you enjoy something else more in the game than logging in to kill a rat and just forgetting about it because sandbox games should be played by doing what you like and not what is the most optimal. But hey, it's your own personal time so you can do whatever you want with it even if it mean turning a game into a job. Sure, but the point of this change is to make those accounts log in.. So if they don't, the dailies have still missed the mark... They want more to log in. As soon as you do it with one, they are already accomplishing something. What really has a chance of creating content with this change is to get player to log in. The same player logging in 20 times on alt is not going to generate anything more than if he just logged once. The barrier of entry of getting in the game was already broken so if you were to think "might as well do something since I'm already in", it won;t happen on the 14th alt. As you log in more alts, you will actually probably just say "F this god damn game" mostly because you though of maximizing your SP gain instead of maximizing your enjoyment of the game. Yes SP are cool, yes they can now even be sold but if you just look at that and grind the multiple log ins for every alt account you have, it will of course look like a chore because you are making it a chore. If you take me and you as example. If I log in once to do it, my single log in is a new one. I might decide to do something or not. On the other hand, From your perspective, the 1st one might be a new log in but the 19 other you make are just repeating steps over and over again. You are not 20 players who might decide to do something else but 1 player who do 20 time the same thing and likely decided if he would do more within at most the first 5 or something like that. CCP definitely know that a metric ass ton of the log-ins will be ghost log ins by alt account of the very same player. Those are not the one they are looking for because that player logged into the game already. You crossed the barrier they want you to cross on the first one. Doing it 19 more time isn't that likely to change your mind on if you play more or just kill your rat and leave. Chance are you won;t change your mind until the next day when the opportunity will try again. As a player, making you do it more often does not really has that much chance to flip your mind if you had decided you would not play but merely kill a rat for 10k sp and the leave. Back to my case, every single opportunity I do is a brand new log in on a different day. I'm potentially not in the same mood as I was the previous day so a new try makes sense hence why it try to get you to log in every day. The system need player logging in at least once, not character/accounts since those are associated to the same brain who already made up his mind if he wanted to play EVE on that specific day. It looks like a chore to many people because they don;t see it as a log in that might make them play the game but as a step to getting 10k SP which "need" to be done because SP > all. Of course, a large amount of those player forcing themselves to log in every single alts they have in the name of getting more SP will also be the type of player telling newbies that SP don't matter because of many reasons. Of course, that makes them hypocrite by saying something while they obviously think the opposite but there is not much we can do about that.
Ransu Asanari V0LTA WE FORM V0LTA 501	Posted - 2016.05.20 03:43:30 - [2305] - Quote I think this feature is bad, and sets a terrible precedent for the game in terms of training and skill allocation. However, it would be better received if it was fully implemented into more than just "kill an NPC" and had a method to obtain the SP for multiple actions in game. Right now this is a very lukewarm feature implementation. I would even call it lazy. Make sure you don't forget to iterate on it.
Sgt Ocker Kenshin. DARKNESS. 965	Posted - 2016.05.20 07:08:16 - [2306] - Quote 00000000000000000000000 000000000001 wrote: All these haters First, against jump fatigue then against injectors now, against dailies Its good for us all to see that one of biggest problems in eve, is the old players trying to rule it - its always here, between us in every change announced by CCP. 500k playerbase, and always, always the same whiners crying here like kids. Make it better for beginners. Dailies are a good idea, keep it rolling CCP o7 These tears are so sweet, i am loving it. If you dont like the changes, quit the game We dont need, even in RL people that dont want changes. GTFO 500K player base? Of which around 40K are logged in at the same time for 1 or 2 hours a week, while the average online is again slipping. Your last comment is my all time Fav - Just Quit - The more that do quit (and there has been a bloody lot since I started playing) the less there is who actually play the game. 18K online - 2300 of whom are in Jita, so scamming or trade alts - Doesn't that just create so much content for a pvp orientated game. The 500K registered accounts mark was passed several years ago - It refers to "accounts registered" and has absolutely nothing to do with active subscriptions (which are the only ones that count). - Which is far far less. It would be interesting if CCP showed us the metrics on how many accounts have been created and how many are actively used My opinions are mine. If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Lavayar Russian SOBR Dream Fleet 284	Posted - 2016.05.20 08:01:05 - [2307] - Quote Officially release date http://updates.eveonline.com/ru/date/2016-05-24/ So sad.
Layckhaie Kaele Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 16	Posted - 2016.05.20 08:22:00 - [2308] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: Layckhaie Kaele wrote: (why not give at least a small amount of Aurum instead? Because that would be shitting all over an income source? And where do skill extractors come from? Or PLEXes that you would need to buy to train up inactive characters? Skill points are indirectly generating income for CCP. Let's say that 50,000 characters do their daily every day (which doesn't seem unreasonable since people have alt accounts etc...) that would be a total of 15B skill points generated every month from nothing. That's 30,000 injectors equivalent or roughly 150,000$ US every month (provided you buy them in packs of 5). [i]--- My blog[/i] - Solo WH PVP \| http://eve-eternity.blogspot.com/
Steijn Quay Industries 1068	Posted - 2016.05.20 09:03:14 - [2309] - Quote With the official release of this announced, its time to say goodbye to Eve (no, you cannot have my stuff). This will be only the start of things that are detrimental to the core of the original game, and if thats CCPs wish, then they can use someone elses money because they arent having mine. So long.
Idolismo Quantum Star Conglomerate Federal United Battalion of Armed Renegades 0	Posted - 2016.05.20 09:12:40 - [2310] - Quote So much drama, it's incredible.
Captain Eliiot Segmentum Solar DRONE WALKERS 8	Posted - 2016.05.20 09:43:24 - [2311] - Quote Whatever makes entitled nerds cry, I'm ok with.
Sodia Alkalinas Static-Noise Upholders 0	Posted - 2016.05.20 09:45:09 - [2312] - Quote I personally do not have a problem with giving an incentive/reward to login (although imo eve does not need that), but I feel it is done poorly at the moment. The system as it is feels bad, especially as newer player that is still starving for SP: I feel like I have to get the 10k each day, and I am losing out a lot if I dont. However, I simply do not have time to login every day, which leaves me frustrated. I really enjoyed not having to worry about eve, and you can argue that I will still train, but it is 20% less efficient, and I fully miss out if I do not find time. Now, a possible solution is to give a login incentive, but avoid frustrating players too much would be to stack the SP reward after completing the daily after a certain number of days with exponentially diminishing returns, as e.g. by the following formula XP_Total = SUM[i=1->number_of_days] 10000 * efficiency_factor^(i-1) If you now select e.g. 0.8 as efficiency factor, you get: Day 1: 10000 Day 2: 18000 Day 3: 24400 Day 4: 29520 Day 5: 33616 Day 10: 44631 Day 50: 49999 Day 100: 50000 Reddit discussion link: https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/4k7dkx/ccplease_make_the_sp_reward_from_dailies_stack_up/
Red Yxa Freedom Buildiers Corp. 0	Posted - 2016.05.20 09:45:42 - [2313] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: CCP definitely know that a metric ass ton of the log-ins will be ghost log ins by alt account of the very same player. Those are not the one they are looking for Wrong. CCP just want the online graph to go up no matter what or their superiors will violate them from backdoor. So goons started the war, PLEX droped (more free to players returns) and now this.
T-Jay Charante Black Sun Industry and Research 34	Posted - 2016.05.20 10:48:01 - [2314] - Quote Sgt Ocker wrote: 00000000000000000000000 000000000001 wrote: All these haters First, against jump fatigue then against injectors now, against dailies Its good for us all to see that one of biggest problems in eve, is the old players trying to rule it - its always here, between us in every change announced by CCP. 500k playerbase, and always, always the same whiners crying here like kids. Make it better for beginners. Dailies are a good idea, keep it rolling CCP o7 These tears are so sweet, i am loving it. If you dont like the changes, quit the game We dont need, even in RL people that dont want changes. GTFO 500K player base? Of which around 40K are logged in at the same time for 1 or 2 hours a week, while the average online is again slipping. Your last comment is my all time Fav - Just Quit - The more that do quit (and there has been a bloody lot since I started playing) the less there is who actually play the game. 18K online - 2300 of whom are in Jita, so scamming or trade alts - Doesn't that just create so much content for a pvp orientated game. The 500K registered accounts mark was passed several years ago - It refers to "accounts registered" and has absolutely nothing to do with active subscriptions (which are the only ones that count). - Which is far far less. It would be interesting if CCP showed us the metrics on how many accounts have been created and how many are actively used In 2013 EVE had 500k SUBBED accounts (google 'EVE 500k subs'), not registered. The highest daily concurrent user number is generally regarded as 10% of the active player base (game industry wide), so 40k currently estimates around 400k subbed accounts.
Jeremiah Saken The Fall of Leviathan 583	Posted - 2016.05.20 11:35:49 - [2315] - Quote Dailies will be online in a few days (yes dailies, it doesn't matter how you called it's still dailiy activity). Achievements will be here soon. Then I will be laughing and every dev posting how special eve is. I am the 85%
Johnathan Coffey Niforce Triggers 81	Posted - 2016.05.20 12:04:17 - [2316] - Quote Guess this means I'm done here. Goodbye EVE. First rule of EVE UI: right click EVERYTHING.
Sykes Makar EVE University Ivy League 0	Posted - 2016.05.20 12:06:02 - [2317] - Quote Lianara Dayton wrote: I find these daily quests a terrible, terrible idea! Like WOW-in-Space level of terrible. The ones in World of Warcraft were used as a means of reputation grind, because the rewards were often things people needed for more serious raids (aka Shoulder enchants, Gems etc.), so don't know why people keep referring to World of Warcraft when comparing those daily quests to it. Skillpoints are even gained when you're logged off, so it probably won't put a bend on your shoe when you're not logging on in the first place. But I can agree the implemetation feels like CCP just threw a piece of idea on the floor, and see how the community eats it up.
Sexy Cakes Have A Seat 1089	Posted - 2016.05.20 12:31:56 - [2318] - Quote lol Not today spaghetti.
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 2833	Posted - 2016.05.20 13:07:26 - [2319] - Quote Sykes Makar wrote: Lianara Dayton wrote: I find these daily quests a terrible, terrible idea! Like WOW-in-Space level of terrible. The ones in World of Warcraft were used as a means of reputation grind, because the rewards were often things people needed for more serious raids (aka Shoulder enchants, Gems etc.), so don't know why people keep referring to World of Warcraft when comparing those daily quests to it. Skillpoints are even gained when you're logged off, so it probably won't put a bend on your shoe when you're not logging on in the first place. But I can agree the implemetation feels like CCP just threw a piece of idea on the floor, and see how the community eats it up. Fun fact, unless you were pushing top tier content in hard mode, they were not required. Hell if your group was good enough, you could skip it anyway unless you wanted the mounts and other related stuff. Shoulder enchant are always named as a reason why people grinded the rep except anyone who look at the mat of what they provided would understand they were not really required. The 10k SP is the same. We don't NEED those SP but people will do it all the time because they feel they do.
Judaa K'Marr FinFleet Northern Coalition. 6	Posted - 2016.05.20 13:08:30 - [2320] - Quote If the problem was that activity was lost from changing the 24hr skill queue, and the goal is to get back the activity caused by the 24h skill queue why is the answer not just... ....reintroduce the 24h skillqueue?
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 2833	Posted - 2016.05.20 13:17:14 - [2321] - Quote Judaa K'Marr wrote: If the problem was that activity was lost from changing the 24hr skill queue, and the goal is to get back the activity caused by the 24h skill queue why is the answer not just... ....reintroduce the 24h skillqueue? Might not be an acceptable solution. Who knows what was discussed in meetings and how they were discussed.
FT Diomedes The Graduates 2557	Posted - 2016.05.20 13:17:26 - [2322] - Quote Judaa K'Marr wrote: If the problem was that activity was lost from changing the 24hr skill queue, and the goal is to get back the activity caused by the 24h skill queue why is the answer not just... ....reintroduce the 24h skillqueue? Because that would be pants-on-head stupid. CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.
Sykes Makar EVE University Ivy League 0	Posted - 2016.05.20 13:22:37 - [2323] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: Fun fact, unless you were pushing top tier content in hard mode, they were not required. Hell if your group was good enough, you could skip it anyway unless you wanted the mounts and other related stuff. Shoulder enchant are always named as a reason why people grinded the rep except anyone who look at the mat of what they provided would understand they were not really required. The 10k SP is the same. We don't NEED those SP but people will do it all the time because they feel they do. Most Factions you had to rep grind also had crafter blueprints, mounts, minions, tabards, fluff gear for transmutation and titles, of course. A secondary matter would be the monetary income. I was only pointing out for the most obvious reasons you would go for grinding the reps in the first place there.
Matt Faithbringer Tax Services 30	Posted - 2016.05.20 13:38:01 - [2324] - Quote Sodia Alkalinas wrote: I personally do not have a problem with giving an incentive/reward to login (although imo eve does not need that), but I feel it is done poorly at the moment. The system as it is feels bad, especially as newer player that is still starving for SP: I feel like I have to get the 10k each day, and I am losing out a lot if I dont. However, I simply do not have time to login every day, which leaves me frustrated. I really enjoyed not having to worry about eve, and you can argue that I will still train, but it is 20% less efficient, and I fully miss out if I do not find time. Now, a possible solution is to give a login incentive, but avoid frustrating players too much would be to stack the SP reward after completing the daily after a certain number of days with exponentially diminishing returns, as e.g. by the following formula XP_Total = SUM[i=1->number_of_days] 10000 * efficiency_factor^(i-1) If you now select e.g. 0.8 as efficiency factor, you get: Day 1: 10000 Day 2: 18000 Day 3: 24400 Day 4: 29520 Day 5: 33616 Day 10: 44631 Day 50: 49999 Day 100: 50000 Reddit discussion link: https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/4k7dkx/ccplease_make_the_sp_reward_from_dailies_stack_up/ First, let me say I'm not against stacking, would probably like it. BUT: 1) even with the 0.8 factor, still I'm not sure if it would be strong enough incentive to log in to fulfill where CCP is going with this 2) "I fully miss out if I do not find time" that's true. now thing about how much ISK you ARE MISSING ON BY NOT RATTING 23/7 EVERY DAY! Quite a bit right? Should this be stacking too somehow?
Matt Faithbringer Tax Services 30	Posted - 2016.05.20 13:39:01 - [2325] - Quote Jeremiah Saken wrote: Dailies will be online in a few days (yes dailies, it doesn't matter how you called it's still dailiy activity). Achievements will be here soon. Then I will be laughing and every dev posting how special eve is. good, I like achievements
Xargun X-Industries and Design 3	Posted - 2016.05.20 13:44:25 - [2326] - Quote Jeremiah Saken wrote: Dailies will be online in a few days (yes dailies, it doesn't matter how you called it's still dailiy activity). Achievements will be here soon. Then I will be laughing and every dev posting how special eve is. Not sure if you realized or not but we already have achievements, what do you think the whole mastery levels on ships is ? Xargun
Jeremiah Saken The Fall of Leviathan 584	Posted - 2016.05.20 14:14:11 - [2327] - Quote Xargun wrote: Quote: Dailies will be online in a few days (yes dailies, it doesn't matter how you called it's still dailiy activity). Achievements will be here soon. Then I will be laughing and every dev posting how special eve is. Not sure if you realized or not but we already have achievements, what do you think the whole mastery levels on ships is ? Xargun Right. Just because I have "IV" near caldari freighter doesn't mean I am the "master of coffins". I never flown damn thing, nor will be. I have no idea what are those masteries, they are not achievements. I am the 85%
Saqara Equestrian Postal Service 0	Posted - 2016.05.20 15:56:59 - [2328] - Quote I like this idea, help speed up those long as hell skill training. Not by much, but time shaved off if always good news!
ApertureKubi Red Horse mining and Salvage Universal Consortium 1	Posted - 2016.05.20 17:30:12 - [2329] - Quote Why not mimic the Clone Soldier Tag system in all space? That encourages getting out there, lore can basically be "pirate factions are smuggling skill boosters to their pilots to make them better. Though not as good as injectors Capsuleers can use them too!" Being able to combine game mechanics with lore is one of my favorite parts of Eve, even if all I do these days is Planetary Ineractionville. Also opens up a window to customize those injectors. Maybe one patch cycle Serpentis is working on getting their newbies up to par, so injectors hard coded to core skills drop from Serpentis couriers. Next patch cycle they're ready to skill into actual faction ships, so more specialized hard coded injectors drop. But if you're still a newbie yourself and you want those core skill injectors, you have to move so say Sansha space where core injectors are dropping now. Encourages people to not sit in one system all the time and mixes up combat. And it really makes it more useful for newer players and less useful (i.e. intended or feeling mandatory) for older players. If the system is "free sp for the first rat you kill every day(ish)" to encourage daily logins, the bar is pretty low for that daily carrot. You may get more logins, but each login session will be lower.
Xorekle Shadowstepper Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire 1	Posted - 2016.05.20 17:34:39 - [2330] - Quote Having read everyone else's thoughts, my ideas on a better system would be give us something like a "a small percentage bonus" to the amount of SP earned, and that bonus would have an expiration timer, that logging in and doing x amount of qualified activities would refresh. This would increased online activity, still have a daily, without tying a direct skill point number/reward to the act of killing an npc. Help A Dad Pay Debt \| skype - live:bderagon
Drago Shouna Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire 375	Posted - 2016.05.20 18:18:28 - [2331] - Quote I'd still prefer it if it went into the the redeem list and I could allocate it to an alt, that way I just run a L4 mission and give to whichever alt I need it on. It saves running a L1 with an alt :)
Sgt Ocker Kenshin. DARKNESS. 968	Posted - 2016.05.20 20:17:40 - [2332] - Quote The kicker here is - Anyone looking at the effect this simple "daily opportunity" has on players logging in will know it is not a real number. The only real number that matters is how many players are logged for longer than the 2 minutes it takes to complete dailies. Padding online numbers with this sort of thing smacks of desperation due to a diminishing player base. That of course is due to all the restrictions CCP is introducing to how the game is played. Dailies suck but CCP don't know what else to do, they have lost touch with the average player and so really have no idea what they want....... And worst of all, they don't really care. My opinions are mine. If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Ivan Stoner Old American Syndicate Silent Infinity 15	Posted - 2016.05.20 20:27:50 - [2333] - Quote Sgt Ocker wrote: The kicker here is - Anyone looking at the effect this simple "daily opportunity" has on players logging in will know it is not a real number. The only real number that matters is how many players are logged for longer than the 2 minutes it takes to complete dailies. Padding online numbers with this sort of thing smacks of desperation due to a diminishing player base. That of course is due to all the restrictions CCP is introducing to how the game is played. Dailies suck but CCP don't know what else to do, they have lost touch with the average player and so really have no idea what they want....... And worst of all, they don't really care. CCP knows what they have to do, that they got told by the players since years. But with skill trading and the dailys you can earn money. On a short term it will look good in your balance sheet, on a long term it will kill your company. Instead of introducing the "Dailys", CCP should create more PVE content more epic arc's, making mining more intresting and making the social interaction better. But thats not easy to made, needs time and brain. Its way easier for a Dev to create dailys, to push his own career. In the end it will lead CCP back to Incarna. Time will tell if they survive that again.
Sisso Taron Forcas armadas DARKNESS. 0	Posted - 2016.05.20 21:56:59 - [2334] - Quote The solution to keep players playing a boring game is to force them to do boring stuff every day, until they start to like it.
Wanda Fayne 214	Posted - 2016.05.20 22:35:58 - [2335] - Quote No your comments just confirms this whole idea is totally pathetic -Lan Wang-
Gezko Wargo Uranus Intruders Test Alliance Please Ignore 0	Posted - 2016.05.21 05:41:12 - [2336] - Quote It is a good idea to motivate new players and also for players who are not as rookies. Skills points always come in handy.
Lugh Crow-Slave 2581	Posted - 2016.05.21 05:52:00 - [2337] - Quote Gezko Wargo wrote: It is a good idea to motivate new players and also for players who are not as rookies. Skills points always come in handy. new players are irrelevant in this change CCP said so themselves. and the SP is not the issue its how they are giving the SP that is the issue. honestly it seems the only reason most ppl are on board with this is because it means they will get more SP rather then them thinking it is good for the game Citadel worm hole tax
Arcturus Ursidae Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation 21	Posted - 2016.05.21 07:03:44 - [2338] - Quote Still not on the test server but may becoming on May 24th. Disappointed it will be implemented in this fashion. Especially without further communication from the Dev team. Again it is not logging In every day, or incentives for logging in or skill point rewards I object to but the fact it requires logging in at the same time every day and has a lazy interface. Having 100mill plus points I can afford to miss a few logins, however this will become such a key focus for new new players and yet is badly designed and socially disruptive. Welcome to the recurring chore.
Lugh Crow-Slave 2585	Posted - 2016.05.21 07:07:04 - [2339] - Quote oh silly it's not logging in at the same time every day ^.^. you have to log in two hours earlier than the previous day or you are losing time. CCP took the effective conditioning tool of dailies and brought it up a level Citadel worm hole tax
Shandra Manaya Prision Break Inc. Spartan Republic 5	Posted - 2016.05.21 08:27:16 - [2340] - Quote It was pretty clear Only one char per account will be rewarded and this char is the one you use to kill your 1 npc of the day.
Gully Alex Foyle Black Fox Marauders 4428	Posted - 2016.05.21 08:30:44 - [2341] - Quote Matt Faithbringer wrote: 2) "I fully miss out if I do not find time" that's true. now thing about how much ISK you ARE MISSING ON BY NOT RATTING 23/7 EVERY DAY! Quite a bit right? Should this be stacking too somehow? It's quite different. You can rat any time you want. Ratting for 4 hours once a week is the same as ratting 4 times a week for 1 hour. Dailies force you to play, you know, daily. Which is annoying for anybody that can't or doesn't want to. Also you have countless alternatives to ratting for making ISK, from trading to exploring to scamming. You can choose the ISK-making activity that you like best and/or that gives you the best buck for your time. For most (if not all) of us, it's quite satisfying to learn about or think of more efficient ways to make ISK. On the other hand, there's almost nothing that can beat 10,000 SP for 5 minutes effort. So sure, you can just ignore it (I definitely will), but it definitely comes with the price of 'missing out' on something valuable. Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
Lugh Crow-Slave 2588	Posted - 2016.05.21 08:51:15 - [2342] - Quote Shandra Manaya wrote: It was pretty clear Only one char per account will be rewarded and this char is the one you use to kill your 1 npc of the day. of the 22hrs you mean unless they have changed something. and the only one toon per acc thing was just tossed in there as some cheap attempt to look like they were responding to feedback Citadel worm hole tax
Hamasaki Cross Scumbag Logistics INC PTY LTD Tactical Supremacy 3	Posted - 2016.05.21 11:20:23 - [2343] - Quote CCP has become used car salesmen. It's the same tactics... If we can get them in the door..... lol pathetic. Welcome to McDonalds Online. Fast food daily quests for all. QUESTS. Because don't think it is anything else.
Hamasaki Cross Scumbag Logistics INC PTY LTD Tactical Supremacy 3	Posted - 2016.05.21 11:22:06 - [2344] - Quote Oh you deployed to Iraq to fight terrorists and keep these scumbags in Iceland safe from extremists? Well you can keep your skill queue going but no matter what, you're dicked compared to all your buddies who could do their daily bs quests. WOOOO
Awkward Pi Duolus Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 168	Posted - 2016.05.21 16:47:24 - [2345] - Quote Goodness, what a bunch of crybabies... CCP, just implement this and get it done with.
Circumstantial Evidence 311	Posted - 2016.05.22 01:33:46 - [2346] - Quote They know and occasionally celebrate that EVE players are 'smarter than average,' yet attempt to manipulate player behavior in the easiest most obvious manner possible, for some fractional percentage gain. Shoot 1 NPC each day, get a piece of candy. "There's a good boy / dog." (pats head) Ugh. "consciousness manipulation techniques" - yep. I think it's time for me to start giving Angel Cartel a break, Our relations have soured over the years... maybe we just got off on the wrong foot.
Mr Duffo 22nd Black Rise Defensive Unit The Bloc 172	Posted - 2016.05.22 15:53:37 - [2347] - Quote If some people doesnt like this then just don't shoot rat and everything stays normal? Skegg¦½ld, Skálm¦½ld, Skildir ro Klofnir! Never forget! #OICXmassacre2014
Matrosov Glengoski Razyashchiy Big Red Button 3	Posted - 2016.05.22 17:29:43 - [2348] - Quote Why exactly are people against this? Its just a SP boost to those that put in the extra mile (yes logging in everyday and kill a rat is taxing on many of us!) and if you don't like it and ignore, NOTHING happens to you. I feel that people are too sensitive about this, how is this turning to another space wow? Its still a sandbox where players control most of the activities in the game. You still consent to PVP when you undock, its still the same eve but easy to understand (for new bros) with more needed tweaks (like getting rid of the raw data of turret tracking in info tab, I mean really??) but its still the same eve but with new mechanics. Do people really want this game to be difficult to play? Or do we want to not get any new players to the game? Bitter vets need to stop being so bitter.
Prime Entity EVEntity 0	Posted - 2016.05.22 20:22:26 - [2349] - Quote The goal of this design is to promote ingame activity, yes? And with this design we've established that SP are fair game as rewards for ingame activities. That being the case, in my opinion, the ideal system is one resembling activities boosting the skills being used - but that is obviously complex to implement. A middle-ground compromise which: a) gets rid of both the psychological pressure of having to log in daily to perform one arbitrary, repetitive task; b) is not punishing to players who prefer to play marathons when they've got time and then not log in for a whole week when they're busy elsewhere; c) still promotes activity and gives a sense of reward and focus; Could be: Giving passive boosts to training speeds for (relatively) short amounts of time, following particular activities, either by giving small boosts to the attributes (think +1, with the possibility of increasing this for new characters) or introducing additional passive modifiers similar to how boosters work. Ie. along the lines of: Did you just set up a sell order? You get +1 Charisma and +1 Memory for ~an hour. Did you set up an industry job? +1 Intelligence/Memory. Did you kill an npc or a player ship? +1 Perception/Willpower. Did you probe down a site or ship? +1 Intelligence/Memory. So on. By keeping the bonuses small, non-stacking but not limited to "once a day", the effective max daily bonus can be kept below 10k SP. And will be effectively 0 is the character is training a skill which did not get boosted by performing a related activity. This: - Does not introduce arbitrary (I emphasize this considering EVE is being promoted as a sandbox) tasks to perform which, many of us will agree, start feeling even more of a chore than many of the existing ingame activities already are; - Does not further clutter the UI with yet another system but instead promotes existing activities and let's the player decide how to approach them if they want to maximize their training efficiency; - Is friendly to the new players who, I assume without scientific data, in their first days mostly just explore what the game has to offer, without bothering about remaps, efficient skill plans and so on - and are instead just focusing on training skills which appear to be most beneficial to what they're currently exploring ingame. This inherently speeds things up for them while they're in their "wow this is huge" state without forcing them to perform that daily task or they'll miss out on catching up SP-wise:
Lugh Crow-Slave 2609	Posted - 2016.05.23 01:18:12 - [2350] - Quote Prime Entity wrote: a) gets rid of both the psychological pressure of having to log in daily to perform one arbitrary, repetitive task; and ccp is no longer interested in your idea as that is their goal as to the rest of your idea it is even worse than dailies as it introduces pure unaltered grind to skill training Citadel worm hole tax
Sepheir Sepheron The Congregation No Handlebars. 54	Posted - 2016.05.23 01:41:06 - [2351] - Quote Idk why people are hating on this idea, I've been playing since late 07 and I think I'd be much happier starting EVE with something like this available. If it encourages new players to stay then great, do it!
Lugh Crow-Slave 2609	Posted - 2016.05.23 03:14:10 - [2352] - Quote Sepheir Sepheron wrote: Idk why people are hating on this idea, I've been playing since late 07 and I think I'd be much happier starting EVE with something like this available. If it encourages new players to stay then great, do it! but there are better ways to do that and CCP realities it. Again they have said themselves it has nothing to do with new players. So please stop trying to use that as a reason to go forward with this. the only reason this is being added is so that the PCU is inflated it's cheap and poor for overall game health but looks great to investors Citadel worm hole tax
Lavayar Russian SOBR Dream Fleet 287	Posted - 2016.05.23 11:25:38 - [2353] - Quote Sepheir Sepheron wrote: Idk why people are hating on this idea, I've been playing since late 07 and I think I'd be much happier starting EVE with something like this available. If it encourages new players to stay then great, do it! It`s not about new players. CCP confirmed.
Prime Entity EVEntity 0	Posted - 2016.05.23 11:40:06 - [2354] - Quote Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: and ccp is no longer interested in your idea as that is their goal And you have clearly been enlightened as to what CCP's goal is based on your own assumptions. Their goal is hardly destructive towards the game, contrary to your statement. It's the means that are being questioned in this, and many similar, threads. Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: as to the rest of your idea it is even worse than dailies as it introduces pure unaltered grind to skill training Hardly. The rewards scale down to being minuscule, but are still present. Someone who wants to grind in EVE to gain an advantage over others can already do so. You can spend your whole day grinding whatever source of income you want, and if you need SP - buy the SP with the ISK you made. Even before injectors were a thing, a surplus of time would simply get converted into bling on ships to gain advantages that way. This suggestion actually curbs SP farming, compared to what CCP is implementing. With the arbitrary tasks and daily rewards, a SP farming toon could log in for 5 minutes and get a whole day's worth of rewards. Under the suggestion I made this wouldn't be possible since yes, you would actually have to "grind" the SP by playing for a while. Downwards pressure on SP prices would admittedly be smaller (still there, though), but actively playing characters would effectively be able to rake in more SP than passive farmers. And if at that point you actually feel pressured to grind your SP bonuses, then you're just an irrational being. Under CCP's implementation, it is rational for people to spend those few minutes daily to get the skill points, considering the reward is pretty big compared to the time investment. Thus the psychological pressure kicks in - if you don't do it, you're behind others who do it. This argument raised by many as a concern, and backed by human psychology science, is valid. But when you extend that bonus in time, while simultaneously making it much smaller, you end up with a mentality of "literally just a few bonus points per hour". The incentive to log in "just for that" is smaller, but there's still an additional incentive to get in game and do what you like actively. Since SP now have inherent ISK value, it's easiest to look at those things when you stay within that mindset and consider it as yet another source of ISK income. "5 minutes for 10k SP" which effectively translates to n milion ISK earned, is pretty tempting to many. "10 hours for 10k SP" would certainly provoke more of a "oh hell no" response since we got better ISK/hour alternatives ingame already. So how about you go do those instead? And get that small bonus meanwhile? On a sidenote I find it rather intuitive that my character is learning a skill which they are effectively practising faster than if they were training gunnery while pew pewing market orders in Jita. From what I can see from your posts you seem to be "just" anti everything in here as a whole. So was I - except some of us have moved past that point and accepted that CCP wants to pad the PCU, which is understandable. More players online is healthy for the game and for the business, regardless how cynical you make it out to be. At the same time I dare to assume they'd rather have those numbers reflect meaningful ingame activity instead of just a ton of people logging on for 5 minutes to kill a rat. My biggest actual concerns with the current implementation, further down the road: If CCP plans to stick to this initial design of theirs, I am genuinely curious how they are planning to extend the list of covered activities to include, for instance, trading or industry, without making it either exploitable or punishing to some. In case of trading, when triggering the bonus on buy/sell orders, I can already see the daily crapton of "1 trit for 0.01 ISK" orders being set up. You can of course define a minimal order value in order to get the reward, but to avoid creating a wall for newer players, this barrier needs to be small enough for them to manage it (since in comparison you can kill "a rat" in highsec in a noob ship) and as such it then becomes laughably small to anyone who's been playing for a while. And especially so to established traders and their networks of trading alts. In case of industry - how do you not punish people who tend to set up 10 industry jobs running for weeks each? Do you force them to keep a spare slot for a daily trash industry job just to rake in those 10k SP? You certainly can't adjust the bonus based on job duration (ie. longer = more SP) since that would be both insanely easy to exploit and also tricky to implement. Or do those people become effectively forced to kill that single daily rat to get the benefit? Both issues would be nonexistent in my suggestion. With industry, you can scale the passive attribute bonus with job duration/value (not 1:1, obviously) and it wouldn't be exploitable since it itself scales with time. With trading, if you actually spend hours daily trading - you get hours daily bonus. Scale the bonus duration with the volume/value of the trade while keeping it no longer than a day to retain the design of promoting daily activity and you're set.
Blue Dragon Blue Dragon LLC 0	Posted - 2016.05.23 17:15:40 - [2355] - Quote Seriously people.. pull your head out of your own game and look at the big picture here. It both amuses and annoys me when I see players, even long established veterans, doing everything they can to protect /their/ play style and Is quiet willing to do so at the expense of everyone else's enjoyment. News flash for those capsuleers, their play style is also an impact on yours. Drive them away, and those who love to high sec gank are going to have less hulks to attack. Think about that. And the comments about high sec miners being no better than belt rats? Really? Belt rats don't feed into the economy that ends up helping to build the ship you are on. Now, my two cents on the idea as posted.. I believe that those skill boosters would probably be better treated as a LP award, not as a generic daily. If you were going to use a daily for something, I would suggest using it for non-tangibles like LPs from the corp that runs that particular system as well as the bounty that comes from them as it is. Does this weigh the idea more heavily in favor of the high and low sec players? Probably. But it also makes more sense lore wise too, and it encourages players to set up shop in some area and stay there for quite a while, which also helps towards stability and helps CCP in future planning. And for those players that run in nullsec? Why not have citadels with a LP shop module so PC corporations can start emulating their NPC counterparts? An another module might let PC corps also run their own concord-like fleets... (although in THAT case, lost ships = a loss for the corp as they have to replace the missing ships... which becomes an another viable tactic in eve warfare) Mild Edit: Those LP gains can be boosted in lower sec systems, which can be an encouragement all it's own for people to migrate out from the high sec regions.
Rociel Carpe Diem Respice Finem Seekers of the Unseen 0	Posted - 2016.05.23 17:38:18 - [2356] - Quote Thanks CCP I'm ok with this
Falin Whalen GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 896	Posted - 2016.05.23 18:20:58 - [2357] - Quote Just wait for next year, when they roll out welfare incursions, and they will drop purple lootz for all. "it's only because of their stupidity that they're able to be so sure of themselves." The Trial - Franz Kafka-á
NotTheSmartestCookie New Order Logistics CODE. 132	Posted - 2016.05.24 11:38:49 - [2358] - Quote Nice! Making New Eden a better place 8 rounds of Void at a time. Funny, smartest, pretty and relevant. Pick 3. Proud shareholder in Halaima MinerBumping
Borat Guereen Minmatar Secret Service Ushra'Khan 61	Posted - 2016.05.24 11:51:43 - [2359] - Quote killed rats, did not see any SP.. do we have to wait for the next downtime? Join our Minarchist Revolution!
Molly Shears Call of the Wild The Minions. 21	Posted - 2016.05.24 11:55:28 - [2360] - Quote worst day in EvE ..... I'm Against Daily Opportunities I'm Against Daily Opportunities
Borat Guereen Minmatar Secret Service Ushra'Khan 61	Posted - 2016.05.24 12:04:30 - [2361] - Quote Borat Guereen wrote: killed rats, did not see any SP.. do we have to wait for the next downtime? works now, notification and SP allocation are immediate after the kill. Join our Minarchist Revolution!
TeamGreen PET Apes The Bastion 3	Posted - 2016.05.24 12:08:18 - [2362] - Quote Borat Guereen wrote: Borat Guereen wrote: killed rats, did not see any SP.. do we have to wait for the next downtime? works now, notification and SP allocation are immediate after the kill. hmm didnt work for me :(
Kaligoth Larainloa Hedion University Amarr Empire 0	Posted - 2016.05.24 13:10:25 - [2363] - Quote So people are upset because this feels too easy by the comments the thing is balance wise everyone can do it and earn from it I think this system is implemented to players who are new think about it first couple days of eve you are really limited because everything requires a investment of skills compared to say a vet who is way into the millions does not really need to worry so much about skill points because they have a good number of skill points to effectively go on unhindered to the burden of skill points. Daily's are not all that bad at least it brakes you away for instance if your doing mining you can take a brake from it and do the daily till its all done then go back to mining same with hauling.
Ledo Hashur New Eden Development Corp Warped Intentions 3	Posted - 2016.05.24 13:27:10 - [2364] - Quote Can someone explain to me how Recurring Opportunities are supposed to appear in the Eve client on Tranquility?? I've logged in/out 4 times, flushed cache, etc. and still don't see anything like the pics leaked a few weeks ago from Singularity testing. As usual, CCP has launched a new feature with ZERO documentation and/or explanation. Or is this going to be a random "hey I got skill points for no particular reason" feature??
Tiberius Mathusia Kontained Chaos Demonic Wheat Pineapple 16	Posted - 2016.05.24 13:40:20 - [2365] - Quote Apparently it's active. I just got the 10k SP reward after killing a rat in an anomaly. First time.
Marcus Tedric Zebra Corp Goonswarm Federation 74	Posted - 2016.05.24 13:41:36 - [2366] - Quote Ledo Hashur wrote: Can someone explain to me how Recurring Opportunities are supposed to appear in the Eve client on Tranquility?? ............... Well, I did one straight after patching to see how it would work - and it worked fine. To see the opportunity, make sure the setting for 'Do not show in info panel' is unchecked in the settings menu of the Opportunities Map (menu bar on left). So far so good - but that was on one account - now it's not showing on any accounts, including the one earlier - not even showing as complete. So something has gone wrong...... Don't soil your panties, you guys made a good point, we'll look at the numbers again. - CCP Ytterbium
Aren Dar EVE University Ivy League 20	Posted - 2016.05.24 13:51:13 - [2367] - Quote I switched between characters on the same account, and the opportunity disappeared, without ever being exercised.
Tsukino Stareine Art Of Explosions 404 Hole Not Found 1461	Posted - 2016.05.24 14:02:46 - [2368] - Quote So will it be enabled again today or will all the people who didn't get a chance to log on yet get free 100k sp to match the ones "making creative use of game mechanics"? Just FYI, this has been disabled due to it being exploited
Ledo Hashur New Eden Development Corp Warped Intentions 3	Posted - 2016.05.24 14:13:45 - [2369] - Quote Tsukino Stareine wrote: Just FYI, this has been disabled due to it being exploited FYI (link)
Sepheir Sepheron The Congregation No Handlebars. 55	Posted - 2016.05.24 15:32:49 - [2370] - Quote Lavayar wrote: Sepheir Sepheron wrote: Idk why people are hating on this idea, I've been playing since late 07 and I think I'd be much happier starting EVE with something like this available. If it encourages new players to stay then great, do it! It`s not about new players. CCP confirmed. I don't really care about their intent, this will make new players happier than they would have been without it guaranteed.
Danixex Gosu Yumping Amok Apocalypse Now. 0	Posted - 2016.05.24 15:56:04 - [2371] - Quote whats wrong with isk as a reward? This money earned could be put towards skill injecotrs, BPOs, or whatever the hell else they wish to buy.
Marcus Tedric Zebra Corp Goonswarm Federation 74	Posted - 2016.05.24 16:11:12 - [2372] - Quote Danixex Gosu wrote: whats wrong with isk as a reward? This money earned could be put towards skill injecotrs, BPOs, or whatever the hell else they wish to buy. Because there's far too much isk coming in already. Don't soil your panties, you guys made a good point, we'll look at the numbers again. - CCP Ytterbium
Danixex Gosu Yumping Amok Apocalypse Now. 0	Posted - 2016.05.24 16:14:32 - [2373] - Quote not for the noobs that this is supposed to help, from what i heard. this was a response to the response right above mine, forgot the quote....
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 2844	Posted - 2016.05.24 16:43:52 - [2374] - Quote Danixex Gosu wrote: not for the noobs that this is supposed to help, from what i heard. this was a response to the response right above mine, forgot the quote.... It's not targeted at noobs but at the entire player base.
Paul-Dieter Breitner University of Tennen 0	Posted - 2016.05.24 17:12:30 - [2375] - Quote This is truely the worst update i have ever seen on eve. Its farmville online now. So the basic daily work for me world be killing one rat per alt on my 3 accounts. Otherwise ill miss 300k SP per month, which is roughly 7-8 skill injectors for 9 alts. Are you kidding me? Well, i should move all my alts back to hs then, to do daily lvl 1 combat missions. Really, this how eve is supposed to be played now? i hate it.
Leeham Sum Corp. I N G L O R I O U S 1	Posted - 2016.05.24 17:26:15 - [2376] - Quote Going to just voice my dislike of this plan, bit late though since it's now live. While the idea of more skillpoints is good, there is no sense of earning it here. All that has been introduced is a chore. EVERYONE, when they launch eve will log into each toon 1-by-1 to kill a belt rat then log into their main. It takes time away from actually playing the game and will just get annoying for everyone and you cannot stop because the though of turning down free skillpoints is ludicrous
AlStorm Prime Hotline K162 The Clown Car 2	Posted - 2016.05.24 17:47:07 - [2377] - Quote - another 10k SP for participating in 1 billion worth kill mail? Please do not take it literally, just as a concept.
Leeham Sum Corp. I N G L O R I O U S 1	Posted - 2016.05.24 17:53:00 - [2378] - Quote Leeham wrote: Going to just voice my dislike of this plan, bit late though since it's now live. While the idea of more skillpoints is good, there is no sense of earning it here. All that has been introduced is a chore. EVERYONE, when they launch eve will log into each toon 1-by-1 to kill a belt rat then log into their main. It takes time away from actually playing the game and will just get annoying for everyone and you cannot stop because the though of turning down free skillpoints is ludicrous Going to correct myself here. After checking ingame I can confirm this feature is per account, not per character. Still not keen on it, as this increases the base SP yield of everyone and punishes those who have unsubbed or have multiple accounts. Kind of wondering if this change was made to punish them.
Jessika Lee Perkone Caldari State 18	Posted - 2016.05.24 18:09:37 - [2379] - Quote Indeed that's looks strange. EVE - the only hardcore game we still have. I can understand extra SP given for some valuable action in the game: 15 signatures scanned / 3 missions finished / first capsuleer ship killed / etc. but not over the first kill of _any_ NPC daily. It costs about 1 minute mostly, LOL. Or just provide it at first character login. P.S. How about reward over first line typed in chat daily?
Bienator II madmen of the skies 3526	Posted - 2016.05.24 18:32:52 - [2380] - Quote is there a way to opt out of the daily missions? I don't want to give the wrong impression to participate in them while killing a plex or gate rat during a roam. I am not playing this game for daily rewards, i don't want to contribute to the success metric of that feature. If i kill a rat i would have killed it with or without this daily mission. Please add a option to opt out just like with the opportunities, thanks. how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value
Barduck Martins Hell Lead Co. Spartan Republic 1	Posted - 2016.05.24 18:43:19 - [2381] - Quote Positive feedback from a player that plays on a daily basis. Guess the "rich" dont like the idea to have more "rich" people.
Erebus 'TheChin' Sundance Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 11	Posted - 2016.05.24 19:57:23 - [2382] - Quote Any chance of the recurring opportunities notification disappearing once completed, and reappearing when the timer expires? I am referring to the area top left, under the route/ current solar system information. The little shield with a clock bit.
Gardav Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 29	Posted - 2016.05.24 19:58:47 - [2383] - Quote My reply here is not an argument against Recurring Opportunities or in support of them. My reply here is a request to have an option in either the notification UI itself, or in the Options panel, be added so I can turn of the viewing off the RO notification completely. I have searched and dug and found no way to turn off the RO notification and remove it from my screen. "TheChin" suggests the notification turn off until the next day, I am suggesting, asking for, the ability to turn it off completely like how we can remove the opportunity notifications from our UI. So CCP, please add the option to turn off the notification for Recurring Opportunities? Thanks. (if there is a way to turn these off can someone please enlighten me? thanks)
Jeremiah Saken The Fall of Leviathan 592	Posted - 2016.05.24 20:01:53 - [2384] - Quote Gives us an option to remove dailies icon. I don't care for them, I don't want to be bombarded with "Thrill of the hunt" message every time I dock up. I'm thrilled how bad it is implemented. Now we will have content that will bombard us until we done it? I am the 85%
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 4871	Posted - 2016.05.24 20:08:29 - [2385] - Quote ArchAngael wrote: I'm strongly opposed to the system as described. Anyone who played WoW will know that if something is perceived valuable enough, even if technically optional, it will seem mandatory because otherwise you are leaving something valuable on the table. Therefore people will feel obligated to log on EVERY character on EVERY account and shoot a belt rat frigate every day, which is mind-numbingly terrible and a giant waste of time. For people who only have an hour or so per day to play, that'll become the entire game. Which since it sucks, will lead them to the conclusion that the game sucks, and hence fewer people in space overall. Even for those who have more time, spending their first hour doing their dailies will make it feel like a job rather than looking forward to PvPing/building/mining/whatever they actually like to do. Also, this really is SP ginned up from nowhere, which is against the spirit of Eve. So 6 pages in I see lots of people are failing to grasp the concept of opportunity cost. And all this talk about being forced to log in. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Manic Velocity Emergent Dynamics 198	Posted - 2016.05.24 20:20:13 - [2386] - Quote Bienator II wrote: is there a way to opt out of the daily missions? I don't want to give the wrong impression to participate in them while killing a plex or gate rat during a roam. I am not playing this game for daily rewards, i don't want to contribute to the success metric of that feature. If i kill a rat i would have killed it with or without this daily mission. Please add a option to opt out just like with the opportunities, thanks. I second this. Please give us the ability to opt-out. I don't want to inadvertently contribute to the metrics gathered from this, and I really don't want the UI reminding me to complete a task every day. @manicvelocity
sero Hita Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 167	Posted - 2016.05.24 20:27:08 - [2387] - Quote I would prefer if the timer was reset for everyone once a day at the same time. This 22 hour timer means you are kinda locked into logging in at the same time of the day you if want to do these recurring opportunities (I am aware you can potentially slide the time two hours backwards everyday so it fits you better, but it is still restricted). As the goal is more people logging in, I see no reason not to let people decide themselves when in a given day they want to be on. "I'm all for pvp, don't get me wrong. I've ganked in Empire, blobed in low sec. Got T-shirts from every which-where.. But to be forced into a pvp confrontation that I didn't want is wrong ccp." RealFlisker
Kaybella Hakaari State War Academy Caldari State 11	Posted - 2016.05.24 20:49:33 - [2388] - Quote Manic Velocity wrote: Bienator II wrote: is there a way to opt out of the daily missions? I don't want to give the wrong impression to participate in them while killing a plex or gate rat during a roam. I am not playing this game for daily rewards, i don't want to contribute to the success metric of that feature. If i kill a rat i would have killed it with or without this daily mission. Please add a option to opt out just like with the opportunities, thanks. I second this. Please give us the ability to opt-out. I don't want to inadvertently contribute to the metrics gathered from this, and I really don't want the UI reminding me to complete a task every day. There are some ways I can think of to do this: Don't log in. See if you can convince everyone you play with not to. You and your friends are the content. Doing anything at all will not convince anyone the feature is bad. Maybe there's something in your Steam library you've been meaning to play? Shoot the Jita 4-4 monument. Bring friends and alts, fleet up. Shut down a trade hub, preferably Jita. Fleet up, and shoot anything on the undock which isn't purple. Don't forget to have everyone copypaste spam "Dailies are terribad" in chat. If you haven't already cancelled your subscription, you can always do that and leave some variation of "Shouldn't have put any dailes in, those were the reason I left [game]" as the reason in the text box. Especially do not plex.
Circumstantial Evidence 317	Posted - 2016.05.24 21:18:56 - [2389] - Quote Bienator II wrote: is there a way to opt out of the daily missions? I don't want to give the wrong impression to participate in them while killing a plex or gate rat during a roam. I don't see them coding a UI checkbox to accommodate feature protesters, that's like... planning for failure. They've made it clear that this is merely the first attempt, and a simple implementation of the feature. (Tippia argued for even simpler: "did you log in today" for 5-10 mins.) So, as I wrote in my previous post here... maybe it's time to give the local NPC pirate factions a break :) Jeremiah Saken wrote: Gives us an option to remove dailies icon. I don't care for them, I don't want to be bombarded with "Thrill of the hunt" message... If you click the Recurring Opportunity button in the bar along the top, the "Thrill of the hunt" details won't be shown. Same as for Route and Solar System info. (To my mild annoyance when I forget why I can't see my current route info, lol. Sometimes that button gets clicked accidently.) ArchAngael wrote: ...people will feel obligated to log on EVERY character on EVERY account and shoot a belt rat frigate every day, which is mind-numbingly terrible and a giant waste of time CCP Rise wrote: Thanks to feedback we see that it would improve the experience quite a lot minimize the amount of characters available for this reward so we are going to limit the reward to the first character completing the daily task on each account.
Bienator II madmen of the skies 3528	Posted - 2016.05.24 22:26:47 - [2390] - Quote Circumstantial Evidence wrote: Bienator II wrote: is there a way to opt out of the daily missions? I don't want to give the wrong impression to participate in them while killing a plex or gate rat during a roam. I don't see them coding a UI checkbox to accommodate feature protesters, that's like... planning for failure. you can disable opportunities, not being able to disable dailies is an inconsistency. And i am not protesting. i only want to be sure to be on the right side of the metric. how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value
Memnon Shepard Rifterlings Zero.Four Ops 28	Posted - 2016.05.24 23:36:12 - [2391] - Quote Thrilling experience hunting SP confirmed. I almost always kept Eve online open in the background while on my home PC to keep up with chat and see if anything exciting was going on. Today I made it a point to log on, complete the daily, and immediately log off. I'll continue to do this as long as I don't have anything specific to do in Eve and the daily system is in place, if only because I'm too much of an addict to ignore free SP but don't want to reward CCP with an improved PCU for this lazy, boring, SP devaluing feature.
Aetran Molou Carbon Thirty-Two Sinful Legion 9	Posted - 2016.05.25 00:23:00 - [2392] - Quote Memnon Shepard wrote: Today I made it a point to log on, complete the daily, and immediately log off. I'll continue to do this as long as I don't have anything specific to do in Eve and the daily system is in place, if only because I'm too much of an addict to ignore free SP but don't want to reward CCP with an improved PCU for this lazy, boring, SP devaluing feature. That's not very good protesting... That's just ruining the game experience for yourself. Suit yourself, I guess.
helana Tsero Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 495	Posted - 2016.05.25 01:25:55 - [2393] - Quote l0rd carlos wrote: I was really mad Now I'm confused. Confused over my own feelings. I don't know what to think about it any more. Its alright... just close your eyes... bend over and let it happen. "... ppl need to get out of caves and they will see something new... thats where eve is placed... not in cave..." \| zoonr-Korsairs \| QFT !
ergherhdfgh Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 1488	Posted - 2016.05.25 01:41:22 - [2394] - Quote are you changing the name of the game to "Space WoW " while you are at it?
helana Tsero Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 497	Posted - 2016.05.25 01:41:54 - [2395] - Quote Please provide a option to remove the icon for dailys that is now permanently fixed to top left of my screen. Sick of each patch adding more UI. eg - first person cam icon... such a used feature that its definitely worth obscuring my view of space for.. NOT - Track icon on selected icon window.... again.. no one uses this extra track feature.. The actual tracking cam and look at cam is much better - cargo hold icon... easily just use [control] [c] or open neo com. - huge citadel icon placed in center of citadel when your targeting it. We already have the regular targeting icon showing its shield/armor level.. don't need this giant ugly icon ruining the beautiful citadel. Eve's space, ships and structures are beautiful. STOP RUINING IT WITH MORE AND MORE UI !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If you want to add more icons stick them on the neo com that I can hide or display at my preference. "... ppl need to get out of caves and they will see something new... thats where eve is placed... not in cave..." \| zoonr-Korsairs \| QFT !
Revman Zim Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic 280	Posted - 2016.05.25 01:41:54 - [2396] - Quote I understand and like what CCP is trying to do. Back in the old days, capsuleers had to log on daily to put in a skill to train or else lose out on time to advance their character. There was a reward for logging in frequently. It was a reward in increased SP. This reward was valuable to ANY player, regardless of they style of play. Since changing the skill queue in CCP has seen a noticeable difference in the number of people logging in and amount of time logged in. The skill queue change, while lauded by the players as a great improvement, had a negative affect on activity. This is their attempt to put that "reward" for activity back into the game. I fully support that. Arguments can be made about what the reward should be, but the premise of the change is important. This game's content is driven by people being logged in and interacting with the EVE universe. Yes, not everyone shoots things, and I am sure CCP will be open to expanding the activities that will count as a "Reoccurring Opportunity". But this is a GOOD start. And I believe that SP is a good reward as it was in the beginning. It is valuable to everyone and does not screw with the economic model. Well done CCP! This was a well thought out feature, and I hope it has the desired affect.
Lugh Crow-Slave 2622	Posted - 2016.05.25 03:26:27 - [2397] - Quote Revman Zim wrote: I understand and like what CCP is trying to do. Back in the old days, capsuleers had to log on daily to put in a skill to train or else lose out on time to advance their character. There was a reward for logging in frequently. It was a reward in increased SP. This reward was valuable to ANY player, regardless of they i can remember back when i had to set my alarm clock to make sure i didn't miss out on any sp it's not something anyone wanted back. at least with the last skill queue (the thing this is supposedly replacing) i only had to log in at most once a week on my newer toons and only about once a month on my older ones. Quote: P.S. It is easy to sit behind a keyboard and criticize without offering up any alternatives. CCP wants to incentivize participation. Offer a better plan or just shut up. go back to the first few pages of this thread we were giving loads of alternatives we stopped when we saw ccp had no interest in real feedback Citadel worm hole tax
Circumstantial Evidence 318	Posted - 2016.05.25 03:50:29 - [2398] - Quote Bienator II wrote: Circumstantial Evidence wrote: Bienator II wrote: is there a way to opt out of the daily missions? I don't want to give the wrong impression to participate in them while killing a plex or gate rat during a roam. I don't see them coding a UI checkbox to accommodate feature protesters, that's like... planning for failure. you can disable opportunities, not being able to disable dailies is an inconsistency. And i am not protesting. i only want to be sure to be on the right side of the metric. The Opportunities map is part of the tutorial system, aimed at helping new players. It makes sense that after a player is no longer new, that those one-time Opportunities have served their educational purpose, and they should be able to hide UI and notifications. This "recurring opportunity" feature is supposed to apply to, and be of compelling interest - to all players, every day. The word the two features have in common, is perhaps unfortunate. Of course, your point still stands. As implemented, players don't have an "opt out," except to avoid shooting NPC's.
Jeremiah Saken The Fall of Leviathan 596	Posted - 2016.05.25 05:33:55 - [2399] - Quote Circumstantial Evidence wrote: Quote: Gives us an option to remove dailies icon. I don't care for them, I don't want to be bombarded with "Thrill of the hunt" message... If you click the Recurring Opportunity button in the bar along the top, the "Thrill of the hunt" details won't be shown. Same as for Route and Solar System info. (To my mild annoyance when I forget why I can't see my current route info, lol. Sometimes that button gets clicked accidently.) I did that, but when you docking on station message pop again. What is this? "Love us we giving you SP for nothing?", "Did you do your dailiy?", "Do your dailiy!", "It's dailiy or sandbox, choose dailiy", "Why you don't want to do dailiy, we will pop this message until you do". Only my alarm clock is more annoying. I am the 85%
Lavayar Russian SOBR Dream Fleet 288	Posted - 2016.05.25 06:13:32 - [2400] - Quote Jeremiah Saken wrote: Circumstantial Evidence wrote: Quote: Gives us an option to remove dailies icon. I don't care for them, I don't want to be bombarded with "Thrill of the hunt" message... If you click the Recurring Opportunity button in the bar along the top, the "Thrill of the hunt" details won't be shown. Same as for Route and Solar System info. (To my mild annoyance when I forget why I can't see my current route info, lol. Sometimes that button gets clicked accidently.) I did that, but when you docking on station message pop again. What is this? "Love us we giving you SP for nothing?", "Did you do your dailiy?", "Do your dailiy!", "It's dailiy or sandbox, choose dailiy", "Why you don't want to do dailiy, we will pop this message until you do". Only my alarm clock is more annoying. Just do it! We need you for PCU!
Jeremiah Saken The Fall of Leviathan 598	Posted - 2016.05.25 06:29:24 - [2401] - Quote Lavayar wrote: Just do it! We need you for PCU! but I already here doing stuff I like. In fact thing like that disencourage me to log on, bad design. I am the 85%
Ix Method Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 495	Posted - 2016.05.25 08:00:31 - [2402] - Quote sero Hita wrote: I would prefer if the timer was reset for everyone once a day at the same time. This 22 hour timer means you are kinda locked into logging in at the same time of the day you if want to do these recurring opportunities (I am aware you can potentially slide the time two hours backwards everyday so it fits you better, but it is still restricted). As the goal is more people logging in, I see no reason not to let people decide themselves when in a given day they want to be on. +1 to this, having timers all over the place feels janky, curious why they don't just reset at downtime? Travelling at the speed of love.
Lugh Crow-Slave 2627	Posted - 2016.05.25 08:03:29 - [2403] - Quote Jeremiah Saken wrote: Lavayar wrote: Just do it! We need you for PCU! but I already here doing stuff I like. In fact thing like that disencourage me to log on, bad design. but we need to make sure you remember for next time Citadel worm hole tax
Kaybella Hakaari State War Academy Caldari State 14	Posted - 2016.05.25 08:15:51 - [2404] - Quote Jeremiah Saken wrote: Lavayar wrote: Just do it! We need you for PCU! but I already here doing stuff I like. In fact thing like that disencourage me to log on, bad design. Maybe take a week or two off? You'll be helping them learn what this feature is really going to do.
Caldari 5 D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F. S.A.S Affirmative. 454	Posted - 2016.05.25 10:02:19 - [2405] - Quote I still can't believe that they went ahead with the SP for Rats thing. If it was Bonus ISK/LP it would be fine, now you start loosing ground on everyone else if you don't login every day, and this makes it harder on the Casual/Weekend Warrior play-style that often puts in just as many hours into the game per week as other player, but they do it in lump sessions instead of consistently throughout the week. Examples 2 people that know each other in RL, these players have different times that they can play at: Player A can login for an hour a day Player B can't play most of the week but can put in a 7 hour session every Saturday. Both are playing 7 hours a week, however Player A gets an advantage over Player B just because this new system favours his play times.
Krevnos Back Door Burglars The Otherworld 160	Posted - 2016.05.25 10:23:34 - [2406] - Quote Thank you CCP Rise for your generous reply. I am delighted to discover that you find your customers amusing. I would also like to report that I find it amusing that a company is paying for you to offer nothing original whatsoever. The chief issue with dailies is two-fold: 1. It is aimed to generate a psyche whereby players feel obligated to log on in order to make their daily gain 'keeping up with the Joneses'. Attempts to deny this are futile - it's the very reason you're implementing the feature in the first place. 2. You are entirely avoiding the underlying issue of why players don't want to engage in PvE in the first place - because it's sht, CCP Rise. That's why people don't want to play it. This initiative will fail because people don't like the PvE experience. Trying to push them into it is only going to cause angst. So why not, instead of spending your time pi*ing us off, start work on something useful, like building a better, more challenging PvE experience?
Jeremiah Saken The Fall of Leviathan 602	Posted - 2016.05.25 11:12:34 - [2407] - Quote Kaybella Hakaari wrote: Maybe take a week or two off? You'll be helping them learn what this feature is really going to do. It doesn't matter. I'm already playing with interwals. Sometimes it's continued 2 weeks of everyday login sometimes it's 2 days in a week. That's the beauty of this game, I don't have to login for raid like in wow. I am the 85%
sero Hita Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 170	Posted - 2016.05.25 11:58:28 - [2408] - Quote Krevnos wrote: Thank you CCP Rise for your generous reply. I am delighted to discover that you find your customers amusing. I would also like to report that I find it amusing that a company is paying for you to offer nothing original whatsoever. The chief issue with dailies is two-fold: 1. It is aimed to generate a psyche whereby players feel obligated to log on in order to make their daily gain 'keeping up with the Joneses'. Attempts to deny this are futile - it's the very reason you're implementing the feature in the first place. 2. You are entirely avoiding the underlying issue of why players don't want to engage in PvE in the first place - because it's sht, CCP Rise. That's why people don't want to play it. This initiative will fail because people don't like the PvE experience. Trying to push them into it is only going to cause angst. So why not, instead of spending your time pi*ing us off, start work on something useful, like building a better, more challenging PvE experience? Was the tone in this post really called for? And even more important, would you as CCP Rise reply to a post like this? I know I wouldn't "I'm all for pvp, don't get me wrong. I've ganked in Empire, blobed in low sec. Got T-shirts from every which-where.. But to be forced into a pvp confrontation that I didn't want is wrong ccp." RealFlisker
sero Hita Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 170	Posted - 2016.05.25 12:11:32 - [2409] - Quote Caldari 5 wrote: I still can't believe that they went ahead with the SP for Rats thing. If it was Bonus ISK/LP it would be fine, now you start loosing ground on everyone else if you don't login every day, and this makes it harder on the Casual/Weekend Warrior play-style that often puts in just as many hours into the game per week as other player, but they do it in lump sessions instead of consistently throughout the week. Examples 2 people that know each other in RL, these players have different times that they can play at: Player A can login for an hour a day Player B can't play most of the week but can put in a 7 hour session every Saturday. Both are playing 7 hours a week, however Player A gets an advantage over Player B just because this new system favours his play times. And it is fine as Player A has a lifestyle that CCP want to reward, whereas player B has a playstyle they want to reward with 1/7 of player A. the thing is Player B only need to log in 2 min to kill a rat. If he choose not to, he has also chosen not to receive the bonus. It is okay to reward certain behavior, like clubs are theoretically available for everyone old enough, but have opening times that reward those who can stay out late clubbing (young people and the mittani), whereas those of us who have other obligations has to choose not to go, or go but go home earlier. CCP does not have to cather for people who have a busy RL, as the people made the choice of what is important for them and I am sure they are old enough to handle the consequences of their actions (Chosing RL over EVE, missing the bonus). "I'm all for pvp, don't get me wrong. I've ganked in Empire, blobed in low sec. Got T-shirts from every which-where.. But to be forced into a pvp confrontation that I didn't want is wrong ccp." RealFlisker
Mandor M Sawall Whiskey Tango Zulu 4	Posted - 2016.05.25 13:00:48 - [2410] - Quote Ok, now that this is live. What kid of a timer is implemented? once between DT? 24h? Because i got my SP yesterday and today i killed a rat and did not get it.
Marcus Tedric Zebra Corp Goonswarm Federation 74	Posted - 2016.05.25 13:34:54 - [2411] - Quote Mandor M Sawall wrote: Ok, now that this is live. What kid of a timer is implemented? once between DT? 24h? Because i got my SP yesterday and today i killed a rat and did not get it. It's a 22 hr timer as planned. Open the 'Recurring Opportunities' dropdown and it even has a timer! Don't soil your panties, you guys made a good point, we'll look at the numbers again. - CCP Ytterbium
Princess Morenta Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 5	Posted - 2016.05.25 13:43:19 - [2412] - Quote Aetran Molou wrote: Memnon Shepard wrote: Today I made it a point to log on, complete the daily, and immediately log off. I'll continue to do this as long as I don't have anything specific to do in Eve and the daily system is in place, if only because I'm too much of an addict to ignore free SP but don't want to reward CCP with an improved PCU for this lazy, boring, SP devaluing feature. That's not very good protesting... That's just ruining the game experience for yourself. Suit yourself, I guess. Considering that is one of the metrics they are stated they are looking at, it would in fact be good protesting. Did the same yesterday, was playing Total Warhammer - logged in to do my daily then logged off and back to it. If CCP worked on more engaging content and systems in game then the logins and replayability would come naturally.
HoboWithGuns Uridium Inc. 0	Posted - 2016.05.25 14:08:27 - [2413] - Quote I started playing Eve about a month ago, and this greatly benefits me. However.... no, no, and NO! What part of NO you don't understand? nein nyet non ne nej fk no!! I *** hate daily/weekly crap, it's one of the things that's killings the MMOs.
Matt Faithbringer Tax Services 31	Posted - 2016.05.25 14:19:46 - [2414] - Quote HoboWithGuns wrote: I started playing Eve about a month ago, and this greatly benefits me. However.... no, no, and NO! What part of NO you don't understand? nein nyet non ne nej fk no!! I *** hate daily/weekly crap, it's one of the things that's killings the MMOs. than don't do them
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 2857	Posted - 2016.05.25 14:20:45 - [2415] - Quote Jeremiah Saken wrote: Kaybella Hakaari wrote: Maybe take a week or two off? You'll be helping them learn what this feature is really going to do. It doesn't matter. I'm already playing with interwals. Sometimes it's continued 2 weeks of everyday login sometimes it's 2 days in a week. That's the beauty of this game, I don't have to login for raid like in wow. Wow didn't force you to log-on to do raids and EVE does not force you to log-on to do this daily.
Matt Faithbringer Tax Services 31	Posted - 2016.05.25 14:24:40 - [2416] - Quote any dev feedback in regards to switching to resetting at downtime instead after 22 hours?
HoboWithGuns Uridium Inc. 1	Posted - 2016.05.25 14:43:03 - [2417] - Quote Matt Faithbringer wrote: than don't do them then* And keep losing SP? Why should I log in every day at about the same time? Did I sign up to be a midless lemming? It's not even a 24h window (which shouldn't be hard to implement, hint: daily maintenance), it's kill time + 22h. Terrible implementation (of a terrible idea). At this point pve/missions is what I do, so this crap will auto-complete on a daily basis anyway. But how it's implemented it rewards you for being a good trained monkey. And if you can't see how that doesn't benefit you as a person in the long run, your loss. But all this is irrelevant, because it shouldn't have been implemented in the first place. I don't want Eve to turn into McEve Lite.
HoboWithGuns Uridium Inc. 1	Posted - 2016.05.25 14:45:05 - [2418] - Quote Matt Faithbringer wrote: any dev feedback in regards to switching to resetting at downtime instead after 22 hours? Well, at least we can agree on that.
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 2858	Posted - 2016.05.25 15:37:46 - [2419] - Quote HoboWithGuns wrote: Matt Faithbringer wrote: than don't do them then* And keep losing SP? You don;t lose a single SP by skipping it. Just look at your character sheet and you will see skipping a day will not lower your SP total.
Braden Fanguard Dutch East Querious Company Asteria Concord. 35	Posted - 2016.05.25 15:42:00 - [2420] - Quote OK so my 0.02 ISK on the subject. First, I'm OK with dailies if it is something I can see myself doing on a regular basis anyway. Killing 1 rat? I don't think a single day goes by in eve where I don't already do this, so i don't see it as demanding I log in. I am a bit uneasy about using SP as a reward. I was OK with skill injectors because the SP has to come from some character somewhere in Eve, but this 10,000 from the daily is just pulled out of the ether. On the other hand, I'm hard pressed to find something more motivating than SP to get me to do these little quests. So we will see where this goes for now. As long as these dailies don't become demanding of me (say battlestar galactica online levels) I think this will work out OK. However, I implore you CCP to find some other kind of reward besides SP. Perhaps CONCORD LP, or cosmetic items?
Edward Pierce GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 133	Posted - 2016.05.25 16:01:47 - [2421] - Quote It took us 6 years to move away from having to log in at a certain time a day to change skills. Now, years after the skill queue was introduced, I'm having to log in at a certain time every day once again to make sure I don't waste any SP. Thanks CCP_Rise. Seriously though, if these were to reset with downtime, we'd be able to get our daily kill in at any time of the day without running into the problem where I either lock myself in to doing it at the same time every day (-2 hours) or I am being a bit inefficient about my SP again. And since we're talking about SP efficiency, why the hell are we still dealing with remaps and attributes? Get rid of attributes and make implants give a flat +SP/hr per slot, that way they keep their relative value and we can train what our hearts desire.
Gardav Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 31	Posted - 2016.05.25 16:25:55 - [2422] - Quote Matt Faithbringer wrote: HoboWithGuns wrote: I started playing Eve about a month ago, and this greatly benefits me. However.... no, no, and NO! What part of NO you don't understand? nein nyet non ne nej fk no!! I *** hate daily/weekly crap, it's one of the things that's killings the MMOs. than don't do them Perhaps CCP can give us a way to remove the Recurring Opportunities "alarm clock" notification and the RO "switch" from the top left of our UI so we can blissfully forget this new content exists. Much better for all concerned overall. Less whining. Those of us that don't like this new feature will never have to see it again, and those who do like it can partake of it to their heart's content because they see it on their UIs as they wish to. I think allowing players the option to turn this thing off on our UIs would go a long ways in cooling off the fires of discontent with this new feature. And I'm going to keep suggesting this when it's appropriate because we have options to turn other things off on our UIs, why not this too?
Duo Roman Warp Nomads 14	Posted - 2016.05.25 16:45:10 - [2423] - Quote HoboWithGuns wrote: It's not even a 24h window (which shouldn't be hard to implement, hint: daily maintenance), it's kill time + 22h. It's limited to once per day, so in effect it's a 24h window, but you get a chance to do it 2hours earlier in case your log-in time is different on the next day.
Jeremiah Saken The Fall of Leviathan 605	Posted - 2016.05.25 18:40:18 - [2424] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: Wow didn't force you to log-on to do raids and EVE does not force you to log-on to do this daily. There are no game that is forcing us to do something. I had to be on certain hour 2,3 time per week online if I want to be in group for raid. If I didn't someone else was taking my spot. Was it by force? No But if i didn't choose to login I wasn't be able to see content that was not meant for solo player. Wow didn't force me to do them neither will eve with dailies, but they are completely different things. I choose to log on for fun content (raids) I won't login for something like dailies. I am the 85%
NovaCat13 Seymourus and Co. 220	Posted - 2016.05.25 18:44:37 - [2425] - Quote sero Hita wrote: Krevnos wrote: Thank you CCP Rise for your generous reply. I am delighted to discover that you find your customers amusing. I would also like to report that I find it amusing that a company is paying for you to offer nothing original whatsoever. The chief issue with dailies is two-fold: 1. It is aimed to generate a psyche whereby players feel obligated to log on in order to make their daily gain 'keeping up with the Joneses'. Attempts to deny this are futile - it's the very reason you're implementing the feature in the first place. 2. You are entirely avoiding the underlying issue of why players don't want to engage in PvE in the first place - because it's sht, CCP Rise. That's why people don't want to play it. This initiative will fail because people don't like the PvE experience. Trying to push them into it is only going to cause angst. So why not, instead of spending your time pi*ing us off, start work on something useful, like building a better, more challenging PvE experience? Was the tone in this post really called for? And even more important, would you as CCP Rise reply to a post like this? I know I wouldn't Considering Rise has only posted 5 times in a thread of 2423 posts, I don't think the occasional sarcastic post is what's preventing him from talking to the players. Just say NO to Dailies
KaarBaak Squirrel Team 332	Posted - 2016.05.25 22:54:30 - [2426] - Quote Princess Morenta wrote: Aetran Molou wrote: Memnon Shepard wrote: Today I made it a point to log on, complete the daily, and immediately log off. I'll continue to do this as long as I don't have anything specific to do in Eve and the daily system is in place, if only because I'm too much of an addict to ignore free SP but don't want to reward CCP with an improved PCU for this lazy, boring, SP devaluing feature. That's not very good protesting... That's just ruining the game experience for yourself. Suit yourself, I guess. Considering that is one of the metrics they are stated they are looking at, it would in fact be good protesting. Did the same yesterday, was playing Total Warhammer - logged in to do my daily then logged off and back to it. If CCP worked on more engaging content and systems in game then the logins and replayability would come naturally. I don't understand the protest. You wouldn't have logged in at all. But, because of this new mechanic you DID login. So CCP gets credit for your login. Meanwhile, you're doing something you didn't plan to do...you took time away from something else you were doing...and you were upset about it enough to spend time posting. Yeah...I can see how this is a victory for the masses. You go Cesar Chavez! Dum Spiro Spero Not getting SP for not killing a rat is like not getting ore for not mining an asteroid.
Memnon Shepard Rifterlings Zero.Four Ops 30	Posted - 2016.05.26 03:44:32 - [2427] - Quote KaarBaak wrote: Princess Morenta wrote: Aetran Molou wrote: Memnon Shepard wrote: Today I made it a point to log on, complete the daily, and immediately log off. I'll continue to do this as long as I don't have anything specific to do in Eve and the daily system is in place, if only because I'm too much of an addict to ignore free SP but don't want to reward CCP with an improved PCU for this lazy, boring, SP devaluing feature. That's not very good protesting... That's just ruining the game experience for yourself. Suit yourself, I guess. Considering that is one of the metrics they are stated they are looking at, it would in fact be good protesting. Did the same yesterday, was playing Total Warhammer - logged in to do my daily then logged off and back to it. If CCP worked on more engaging content and systems in game then the logins and replayability would come naturally. I don't understand the protest. You wouldn't have logged in at all. But, because of this new mechanic you DID login. So CCP gets credit for your login. Meanwhile, you're doing something you didn't plan to do...you took time away from something else you were doing...and you were upset about it enough to spend time posting. Yeah...I can see how this is a victory for the masses. You go Cesar Chavez! So many assumptions in so few letters! I can only speak for myself, but I certainly don't think that people changing their playing habits think of themselves as Chavez or even necessarily as protesters. Is the effect the update had on our playing less valid than the player who dutifully starts setting alarms to max the silly 22 hour timer? Here's the best way I can sum up my behavior: 1) Prior to this update, I often kept the Eve client open in the background even when I wasn't actively playing to chat, trade, tinker with ship fits, etc. 2) I don't like the concept of daily quests to boost a number CCP needs to report on, especially with how this particular system was implemented with so few options for completing it. I loved the fact that Eve prior to this update had a single source of SP that was time based, and I believe that if dailies had to be implemented then LP or AUR would have made better rewards. 3) CCP will be looking at how player activity changes in response to this update, and said they would make modifications accordingly (I assume this includes potentially removing it entirely, but I'm obviously not getting my hopes up). 4) I recognize that a 5 minute task is worth 10k SP to me. Participating does not force me to also like that daily quests are a feature in the game, I still would rather have the option removed. 5) I saw an opportunity to change my behavior in hopes that I wouldn't contribute to an increased average online player count where prior to this update I assume I was logged in more frequently than the average player. My breaks between Netflix, Reddit and Youtube are now filled with games other than Eve. It's not a civil rights protest, it's a legitimate effect the update had on me as a player. A lot of people are saying "you probably don't even like Eve," "then you shouldn't be playing this game anymore," or "if you are't going to play just quit." I love Eve, but I think it's important to point out that updates which lead to long time paying customers coming to these realizations aren't a good thing. Dailies, as far as I can tell, aren't meant to bring in new subscribers and more than a handful of players were put off by their introduction. Even those who like this system in it's current state must agree that it will be better for CCP to focus on new engaging content that people choose to participate in for fun rather than spending time tying carrots to activities players are known to tire of quickly.
FoxFire Ayderan 222	Posted - 2016.05.26 05:06:23 - [2428] - Quote Fantastic idea! Love you CCP. Especially when you ignore the incessant nay-sayers, who if you'd listened to them we'd be playing EVE as it was when it launched, and... few if any would be left playing it.
Gregor Kado Vivum Mortem 0	Posted - 2016.05.26 05:20:40 - [2429] - Quote Brilliant. Gives players a reason to get out in space every day instead of treating the account like a skill horse to sit idle for training. Great idea. Just expand it and make it in depth so it does not turn into a grind everyday. Variety is the mother of all gaming success. Keep it up.
Vash Bloodstone The Chiaotzu Doctrine 2	Posted - 2016.05.26 06:36:06 - [2430] - Quote Hello, I'd like to take this moment to offer my humble opinion on this subject. After much thought and deliberation and seeing firsthand some of the results of this new mechanic, I have come to the conclusion that it is a bad idea and a failure. First of all, it seems clear that this recurring opportunity is meant to incentivize log-ins and also as a way to get people to UN-dock. On both these accounts, it will fail. I am not privy to the log-in numbers and I wouldn't be surprised if for the short term, log-ins did increase, but it will be a false victory. First, we must understand a few basic things. In EvE online, we live in a sandbox, and there are "rewards" to be gained by completing tasks. But like real life, each reward in eve requires work and effort equal to that of the reward and sometimes you get no reward for a lot of work. Going further, many tasks in eve are done with the knowledge that the rewards will be meager or that it will even cost resources to engage in. I am sure that many here might say that the funniest things to do EvE often have no rewards at all. For example, many acts of PvP may end with no reward and may in fact result in great losses. So, why do people do those things than? If you don't know already, they do it because it's FUN. If you can take anything away from what I say, let it be that the main reason people play EvE is to have Fun. Yes, people play EvE to have FUN and not to earn "rewards." Oh, but Vash, can't people have fun earning rewards by doing daily opportunities? You tell me, can they? When you set-up a reward system, you change how a person's brain works. In general, people will do things that they think are fun. They will make this decision on their own, often not not on the basis on how many rewards they will get, but on how much fun they will have. How else can you explain why so many people engage in PvP, or how many people in industry make stuff even though the profit margins are thin or non-existent? If people only did things based on rewards, than there would hardly be any PvP and we'd probably see a lot more PvE action. One of the best things that I like about EvE is its unique reward system. Rewards are variable and getting better rewards require more risk and ingenuity. They are fun because it mirrors real life in that things are uncertain and you never know what your going to get. What this recurring opportunity does is fundamentally change all that. Ask yourself this question: Why did you log in to eve today? Before this abomination of recurring opportunities, most people would of gave very nice answers like: explore, pvp, mine, etc, etc. But now today, a growing number of people will now say: I logged in to get the 10k sp bro. This is the death bell of eve online. There is one thing you must understand about human motivation. Rewards do not foster creativity, and in fact they stifle it. Studies have shown this. If you pay people based on getting good test scores, they will do worse than those who just studied because they felt it, (with no incentive). When people log in to get the 10ksp, that's exactly why they are logging in, to get 10ksp and NOT to play Eve online. This may seem like a odd statement, but this is what rewards do to our brain. They change our perspective. When we have rewards on the mind, that's all we can focus on. The thing is, by turning the task of logging in to eve and killing a single NPC into a reward, you've now turned that simple activity into a chore. Because inside people's brain's, what happens is that deep inside, people start thinking, if I have be incentivized to do this task, that means the task must not be worth doing in of itself. So, whether CCP intended or not, they now just destroyed a certain number of their players. Its probably not many, but now some people are going to think that EvE online must not be worth playing because they have to give out rewards just to get people to log in. Anyway, this recurring opportunities thing seems small, and many of you will probably just shrug your shoulders, but it is the spirit behind it that is so toxic and why it must be stopped. Please get rid of this abomination. Don't turn eve online into a chore. If you want people to play eve more, than let it be because its fun, and not because of some lousy reward. Ultimately, if you get players to play just because of rewards, you will just end up with a bunch of zombies and this game will end up in oblivion. End Daily tasks now. Sorry if my post dragged on...may the force be with you....
Aehren Armitage 2	Posted - 2016.05.26 08:28:02 - [2431] - Quote So... Pros: -Newbies get to skip 1-3 hours waits to get into certain ships, be it to suddenly get into a ship an FC wants them to use, or if they want to try something new -Those of us who are actually actively playing the game (not the meta, hun) get a little boost to our SP -More people will log in for the small SP bonus and perhaps stay logged on instead of playing skillqueue offline, leading to a more active world- or at the very least giving gankers something to shoot at -Those who don't care for it lose nothing but the opportunity cost, which is at their sole discretion given nothing is changing for their SP acquisition otherwise, and is as much -or less- of a cost than choosing to have +5s or not (PvPers didn't get to realistically use these btw) Cons: -People with 12 accounts feel it inconveniences them -People who have been playing for years think it's unfair since they didn't get it this whole time and it's totes crap that all these newbies have it so easy and eve is WoW etc. and they much prefer the old system, where all one had to do was create an account 10 years ago to be competitive I love ya CCP High on a hill was a lonely goat herd.
Daniel Tissant VendoLife End of Life 0	Posted - 2016.05.26 12:10:23 - [2432] - Quote I am 100% happy with this let me tell you why. I'm two months into this and I got frankly stuck with skill points. Here's the thing I bought skill injectors, sure but they cost a lot of ISK for a new player. This means I can actually reduce the 6 months of training down - haven't worked out by how much. I got to the point where I was logging in every 5 days or so to do something get killed and see how the skill points were going. Now I'm back in every day. Daniel. http://www.eveblog.space
Lavayar Russian SOBR Dream Fleet 289	Posted - 2016.05.26 12:36:18 - [2433] - Quote Aehren Armitage wrote: Cons: -People with 12 accounts feel it inconveniences them -People who have been playing for years think it's unfair since they didn't get it this whole time and it's totes crap that all these newbies have it so easy and eve is WoW etc. and they much prefer the old system, where all one had to do was create an account 10 years ago to be competitive I love ya CCP You forgot frequent answers "I'm doing my daily" on question "Where da hell you gone?" I'll hope FC will shoot anyone for such answer.
Krevnos Back Door Burglars The Otherworld 163	Posted - 2016.05.26 15:07:58 - [2434] - Quote sero Hita wrote: Was the tone in this post really called for? And even more important, would you as CCP Rise reply to a post like this? I know I wouldn't Usually I would say no, however when a company sees fit to mock its customers, it becomes entirely acceptable to retort. Remember, a customer is king: they pay the wages of workers. While a customer should generally treat a company with respect, where a company condones employees insulting the intelligence of its customers it becomes open game. As a departing customer, I want to make absolutely certain that the company with which I have done business is absolutely aware of the reason I have chosen to discontinue their service. I don't write expecting replies on forums, I am far too versed with the practices of CCP for that. I am also well versed on the practice of ignoring the requests of customers in the interest of earning 'quick bucks', a practice which has become prevalent at CCP in recent months. This recent move is not made in the interest of offering a quality product, but instead purely with profit in mind (because no benefit is gleaned by any player) at the expense of quality (boring task). The same can be said for skins, skill point trading and double account training.
Visello Gaterau Free Pilots Consortium 0	Posted - 2016.05.26 15:26:11 - [2435] - Quote Since when has it ever been healthy to feed the lazy players that wont put some effort and patience into the game. ccp shouldnt even bother trying get those players. The person that came up with this idea should really be ashamed of himself. we can only hope to see this will get removed and the person behind this will never raise the hand agian to come with more unhealthy ideas for eve agian. What a scrub...
MortisLegati Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Sanctuary Pact 16	Posted - 2016.05.27 05:13:35 - [2436] - Quote This change flies in the face of EVE's core tenets. I leave games when I feel compelled to play a game that I don't feel like playing that day to complete dailies to keep up or not be put far behind people with more free time than me. If I'm setting a timer for every 22 hours every day, that game becomes a chore. (Log into the other characters on my account to get free 10kSP to get more market order slots, whee.) I don't want EVE to be a chore. I want to have fun. Playing EVE, a unique game full of opportunities. Skill Points aren't going to tell you whether you can have fun or not. You can do all activities, with the help of a corporation, as a day-old player. Core tenet Encouraging a specific behavior every day merely encourages people to become jacks-of-all-trades through the game rather than their circumstances. Skill injectors were great because they added flexibility to the character trading mechanic. One could always have spent real-world money for PLEX then sell it for ISK then use that ISK to trade for a character trained the way they liked. That mechanic fills the hole for new players regarding direct skillpoint gains for the new and impatient and allows older players looking to 'trade up' a method to push their skills forward without losing their identity. How skills are trained and how much they cost early or late-game aren't going to be fixed or adjusted with free, unallocated skillpoints. We're putting a band-aid over something that doesn't need a band-aid and it's going to hurt when we rip it off the hairy arm of skilltraining, or just leave a rash if left on unneeded.
Lugh Crow-Slave 2637	Posted - 2016.05.27 06:10:28 - [2437] - Quote Visello Gaterau wrote: Since when has it ever been healthy to feed the lazy players that wont put some effort and patience into the game. ccp shouldnt even bother trying get those players. The person that came up with this idea should really be ashamed of himself. we can only hope to see this will get removed and the person behind this will never raise the hand agian to come with more unhealthy ideas for eve agian. What a scrub... lol this wont get removed because more ppl will log on every day than will stop playing. there is a reason so many games use such a toxic system. Citadel worm hole tax
zluq zabaa Inhumanum Legionis AXIOS. 7	Posted - 2016.05.27 12:05:56 - [2438] - Quote I like it. Thanks CCP. Please add more diversity to it and EVE will flourish. What does it actually change? GÇó rewards activity vs. just passive income (while crying in forums) GÇó creates an SP shower as a counterweight to the massive SP drain induced by skill injectors GÇó realizes SP as one of the most precious commodities (inb4 someone lessoning about SP: blablabla, you need them as well as experience, only one of the two won't help you much) GÇó it adds a reward that's not straightforward exploitable by the already (isk/sp) rich People who are whining are: GÇó guys who invested billions over billions in skill injectors GÇó oldbros who got few million free sp for cruiser/bc V (newbros have to train each of them one by one) GÇó people who complain being -+forced-½ to do something, while they don't use most of the opportunities already out there GÇó guys who thought they're finally good at this game GÇó generally people who don't care about EVE as a community game, but about themselves getting/staying on top of it EVE is a great game, because it evolves, because it changes. Creating opportunities and more content for new players is very much desireable for the whole game. It's basically the only way EVE can strive. Catering the entitled feelings of bitter oldbros would be the one thing that slowly kills this game. If it was up to me, I'd decide to shake up all of it far more to ensure that EVE stays interesting and not a muddy pit of habit, stasis and boredom. Maybe add a Single Player version of EVE for all the people who hate change. * Theoretical max. of +327k SP/month per Account for logging in every 22h is the (current) equivalent of spending between 385M and 1.9B per month on Skill Injectors (depending on your current overall SP). Instead of logging in every day, just log in once, make some ISK and pay someone else for SP * It's hilarious how people will threaten to leave this game over and over again. It would be so nice if some of those actually left the game. There are many people with different interests in here. Be a part of it and accept that not everything will always be in your favor. Or just go. Really - if you hate it so much, please just leave the game. It will be better for yourself and EVE, if you don't poison the atmosphere and your own mind by your constant whining.
Lugh Crow-Slave 2645	Posted - 2016.05.27 12:35:40 - [2439] - Quote lol you mean people in favor of this idea "free SP yippi" ppl against the idea "i don't give a crap about new bros getting sp the idea of dailies has no place in a sandbox" Citadel worm hole tax
Neadayan Drakhon Heuristic Industrial And Development AddictClan 227	Posted - 2016.05.27 19:10:06 - [2440] - Quote Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: lol you mean people in favor of this idea "free SP yippi" ppl against the idea "i don't give a crap about new bros getting sp the idea of dailies has no place in a sandbox" This^^ The people who like this or are at least not against it are mostly of the "yay, extra sp for meeeee" mindset, only a few seem to actually think this would be good for the game overall. The ones thinking "yay sp" don't realize or don't care that this is bad for the game, they just want more sp, either to accumulate or extract and sell. Some even try to justify this insanely bad idea because skill trading (another insanely bad idea) is already a thing (it shouldn't be). The people who (like me) hate this idea are against it because it has no place in a sandbox as it is directed gameplay; and its a mechanic that many EVE players (myself included) have left other games to get away from. There were a few people early in this thread that pointed out this kind of thing would be much easier to accept if it actually were limited to new players. I would still say even this would have been bad, just less bad.
Dallenn V0LTA WE FORM V0LTA 0	Posted - 2016.05.27 23:46:14 - [2441] - Quote It's pretty stupid. And the effect is exactly the opposite of intended: reducing activity and diversity of activity. You are giving a 200 M isk per month bonus to the ratting population. (Or a chance of about 66M isk/h activity if we assume 5 minutes per day.) How about PvPers and industrialists? This is favoritism. Eve already has a great diversity of rewards - and gameplay approaches. Why does it need something like this? It's not your regular MMO! We're here because we want to enjoy the best gaming experience available in the early 21st century, not because we get an instant XP/credits reward.
FoxFire Ayderan 223	Posted - 2016.05.28 02:25:40 - [2442] - Quote Forum Whiners Unite ! A remarkable number of people in Eve don't read or post in the fourms. I know right! Seems that the majority who talk about this new Recurring Opportunity in game are quite happy about it. So.... as usual the forums is largely a place for enjoying BVTs . The newbros, and the oldbros, and the newish oldbros (like me) think this is great, as was the ability for SP laden oldtimers to transfer some of those SP to up-and-comers.
SpartanXZero FoxNova Nova -X- Industries 2	Posted - 2016.05.28 05:56:01 - [2443] - Quote CCP Rise wrote: Hi I'm here to give you guys a heads up that sometime early next week a small daily activity reward feature will be hitting Singularity and will hopefully be making its way to TQ sometime just after Citadel. As you guys surely know, having people in game and in space is great and we want to start promoting and rewarding activity a little more directly. The version of the feature we are planning to deploy first will be a simple 10,000 skill point reward that a character will receive the first time they kill an NPC ship every 22 hours (limited one character per account per day, chosen based on which character completes the task first). The skillpoints will go into your unallocated pool to be used however you like. You will find the status of your daily skill boost in the Opportunities info panel and you will also receive notifications to let you know when it becomes available. That's it for now. If this goes well we hope to expand in several ways, but more on that later! Feedback appreciate as always, CCP Rise for Team Size Matters While I can understand the issues of what I can only assume come from the longer term veteran players who may in some way feel cheated of some sort of committed effort by this new addition to the game. As a relatively new player to EvE, an speaking on behalf of the couple players that joined me in this venture. Having this little prompt both for game interaction as well boosting early skill progression to help those players focusing such. Is a welcoming addition, for myself an I'm sure many newer players just joining EvE. I'm looking forward to further incentives to this feature. I hope they're not huge bonuses, although I could see large bonuses for 1 time only achievements for things like attainment of set security status, faction standings, or 1st time completion of epic arcs.
Neadayan Drakhon Heuristic Industrial And Development AddictClan 232	Posted - 2016.05.28 08:36:14 - [2444] - Quote SpartanXZero FoxNova wrote: CCP Rise wrote: Hi I'm here to give you guys a heads up that sometime early next week a small daily activity reward feature will be hitting Singularity and will hopefully be making its way to TQ sometime just after Citadel. As you guys surely know, having people in game and in space is great and we want to start promoting and rewarding activity a little more directly. The version of the feature we are planning to deploy first will be a simple 10,000 skill point reward that a character will receive the first time they kill an NPC ship every 22 hours (limited one character per account per day, chosen based on which character completes the task first). The skillpoints will go into your unallocated pool to be used however you like. You will find the status of your daily skill boost in the Opportunities info panel and you will also receive notifications to let you know when it becomes available. That's it for now. If this goes well we hope to expand in several ways, but more on that later! Feedback appreciate as always, CCP Rise for Team Size Matters While I can understand the issues of what I can only assume come from the longer term veteran players who may in some way feel cheated of some sort of committed effort by this new addition to the game. As a relatively new player to EvE, an speaking on behalf of the couple players that joined me in this venture. Having this little prompt both for game interaction as well boosting early skill progression to help those players focusing such. Is a welcoming addition, for myself an I'm sure many newer players just joining EvE. I'm looking forward to further incentives to this feature. I hope they're not huge bonuses, although I could see large bonuses for 1 time only achievements for things like attainment of set security status, faction standings, or 1st time completion of epic arcs. Don't give them any more idiotic ideas.
Visello Gaterau Free Pilots Consortium 2	Posted - 2016.05.28 09:21:40 - [2445] - Quote FoxFire Ayderan wrote: Forum Whiners Unite ! A remarkable number of people in Eve don't read or post in the fourms. I know right! Seems that the majority who talk about this new Recurring Opportunity in game are quite happy about it. So.... as usual the forums is largely a place for enjoying BVTs . The newbros, and the oldbros, and the newish oldbros (like me) think this is great, as was the ability for SP laden oldtimers to transfer some of those SP to up-and-comers. I doubt you are right in this when it comes to who want this feature in eve. i would rather use the word adapting to what ccp is during and that will have an end at somepoint. The only reason for me to see why you like this idea is that you are one of those who have played eve on and off and have like 50% of the skillpoints that your toons age is. One of the reason i dont like this is because when you first start feed the impatience you will see the demands of more stupid stuff like make the game pay to win.
Lugh Crow-Slave 2660	Posted - 2016.05.28 09:45:54 - [2446] - Quote Visello Gaterau wrote: [ One of the reason i dont like this is because when you first start feed the impatience you will see the demands of more stupid stuff like make the game more pay to win. fixed that for you eve has been pay to win since plex. However plex was needed to slow rmt in the future with the current path ccp is going i see no reason to think they won't add pay to win for the sake of pay to win. maybe an arum attribute booster at first then when ppl get comfortable with that we will start seeing things like aurm chips to give you an edge in invention. scuttle things at first, things that wont affect the day to day game play of most until it gets more and more intrusive. Next thing you know you can buy keys to enter special gates in missions that have a much higher drop rate of faction and officer mods i would like to think i will never see the day that i kill a rat and get a box i need to buy a key for but who knows all of this will be discounted as not pay to win because you can sell and buy all these things for isk on the market Citadel worm hole tax
Shallanna Yassavi Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 197	Posted - 2016.05.28 11:29:11 - [2447] - Quote SpartanXZero FoxNova wrote: CCP Rise wrote: Hi I'm here to give you guys a heads up that sometime early next week a small daily activity reward feature will be hitting Singularity and will hopefully be making its way to TQ sometime just after Citadel. As you guys surely know, having people in game and in space is great and we want to start promoting and rewarding activity a little more directly. The version of the feature we are planning to deploy first will be a simple 10,000 skill point reward that a character will receive the first time they kill an NPC ship every 22 hours (limited one character per account per day, chosen based on which character completes the task first). The skillpoints will go into your unallocated pool to be used however you like. You will find the status of your daily skill boost in the Opportunities info panel and you will also receive notifications to let you know when it becomes available. That's it for now. If this goes well we hope to expand in several ways, but more on that later! Feedback appreciate as always, CCP Rise for Team Size Matters While I can understand the issues of what I can only assume come from the longer term veteran players who may in some way feel cheated of some sort of committed effort by this new addition to the game. As a relatively new player to EvE, an speaking on behalf of the couple players that joined me in this venture. Having this little prompt both for game interaction as well boosting early skill progression to help those players focusing such. Is a welcoming addition, for myself an I'm sure many newer players just joining EvE. I'm looking forward to further incentives to this feature. I hope they're not huge bonuses, although I could see large bonuses for 1 time only achievements for things like attainment of set security status, faction standings, or 1st time completion of epic arcs. If they do this, please paint "I ruined EVE' on your car windows. If you've ever played SWTOR, you probably know about some of the bonuses you get for doing certain mostly-solo PvE things: Clearing all of 8 class missions give you stronger companions on all characters. Kind of backwards: you go through everything Imperial, and your Republic characters get stronger. This is a very important thing to do if you want to make money efficiently. The class missions are that game's strong point, but some people just don't want to do them. I've heard people in Mumble complain about having to do them because they wanted the bonus at the end. "Finding" all of the datacrons is a must if you're into the highly competitive end-game stuff. They all give you a small bonus to your stats-except, if the other guy in PvP has the bonus and you don't, you're at a disadvantage. If you like exploring, they're fun-but if you don't, it's just a long and seriously annoying checklist of stuff to "find" and get to. Same thing with chatting with the PvE companions: if you don't get to the end of a good chunk of their conversations, you don't get some small attribute boosts-which endgame raids are balanced around. Again, in PvP, if you don't do this busy work, your character ends up a little weaker. If they decide this game needs a feature like that, it's safe to say whoever's running the show wouldn't know a sandbox if you half-buried his chair and desk in one. A signature :o
Lugh Crow-Slave 2675	Posted - 2016.05.29 04:30:33 - [2448] - Quote SpartanXZero FoxNova wrote: CCP Rise wrote: Hi I'm here to give you guys a heads up that sometime early next week a small daily activity reward feature will be hitting Singularity and will hopefully be making its way to TQ sometime just after Citadel. As you guys surely know, having people in game and in space is great and we want to start promoting and rewarding activity a little more directly. The version of the feature we are planning to deploy first will be a simple 10,000 skill point reward that a character will receive the first time they kill an NPC ship every 22 hours (limited one character per account per day, chosen based on which character completes the task first). The skillpoints will go into your unallocated pool to be used however you like. You will find the status of your daily skill boost in the Opportunities info panel and you will also receive notifications to let you know when it becomes available. That's it for now. If this goes well we hope to expand in several ways, but more on that later! Feedback appreciate as always, CCP Rise for Team Size Matters While I can understand the issues of what I can only assume come from the longer term veteran players who may in some way feel cheated of some sort of committed effort by this new addition to the game. As a relatively new player to EvE, an speaking on behalf of the couple players that joined me in this venture. Having this little prompt both for game interaction as well boosting early skill progression to help those players focusing such. Is a welcoming addition, for myself an I'm sure many newer players just joining EvE. I'm looking forward to further incentives to this feature. I hope they're not huge bonuses, although I could see large bonuses for 1 time only achievements for things like attainment of set security status, faction standings, or 1st time completion of epic arcs. again this argument is getting old. CCP has stated it has nothing to do with new bros at all that is not the intent in any way. if new players do need more SP then start them with more SP or make it easier for them to buy the starter packs that come with the accelerators. it is not an issue of vets feeling cheated the issue is the ideology that spawns dailies is counter to the ideology of a player built open sand box where instant gratification is hard to come by. This coupled with the idea that just because you can't log in every day doesn't mean you fall behind in skills like you do with any other mmo is one of the things that drew many older players(in age not in how long we have played) to the game. all that is just tossed away so CCP can make their numbers look better Citadel worm hole tax
Nunesamaniac Exploration Innovation 0	Posted - 2016.05.29 04:39:56 - [2449] - Quote CCP Rise wrote: .... First, let me clear up some confusion by saying that this feature has no relationship with the 'Tribute' system that was described last year at EVE Vegas. That feature has actually gone down a path more focused on goal setting and long term engagement than daily activity and so the daily part was broken off and given to our team separately. With that in mind, we are trying to find the right mix of activity and accessibility. We want you to be able to collect this reward during a lunch break or a 10 minute period where your kids are in timeout but also want to make sure there's some real gameplay associated with it. We think getting to a belt or gate for an NPC is about the right mix and that's why we've landed with this... This task is not easy for characters that are devoted to non combat roles. I have one character that has no combat skills and it took me about 40 minutes to kill a single rat because he literally has 0 skills for combat or fitting because the character is made to sit in a station. Now I am forced to train him for basic combat if I want to keep doing this task in a reasonable amount of time. I am finding this the opposite of fun and actually quite frustrating. He is also not contributing to any meaningful play struggling to kill things in a level 1 mission in highsec space.
Sgt Ocker Kenshin. DARKNESS. 978	Posted - 2016.05.29 06:21:39 - [2450] - Quote Nunesamaniac wrote: CCP Rise wrote: .... First, let me clear up some confusion by saying that this feature has no relationship with the 'Tribute' system that was described last year at EVE Vegas. That feature has actually gone down a path more focused on goal setting and long term engagement than daily activity and so the daily part was broken off and given to our team separately. With that in mind, we are trying to find the right mix of activity and accessibility. We want you to be able to collect this reward during a lunch break or a 10 minute period where your kids are in timeout but also want to make sure there's some real gameplay associated with it. We think getting to a belt or gate for an NPC is about the right mix and that's why we've landed with this... This task is not easy for characters that are devoted to non combat roles. I have one character that has no combat skills and it took me about 40 minutes to kill a single rat because he literally has 0 skills for combat or fitting because the character is made to sit in a station. Now I am forced to train him for basic combat if I want to keep doing this task in a reasonable amount of time. I am finding this the opposite of fun and actually quite frustrating. He is also not contributing to any meaningful play struggling to kill things in a level 1 mission in highsec space. So it would be a trade or indy alt? In which case your farming the SP for future profit? If not and it is a char you are training more skills on, then having basic combat skills to gain an SP boost each day is not a bad thing. My trade alt flies an Atron with meta 4 guns and a web (6 hours of training), I manage to complete the daily in less than 5 minutes each day. The hardest thing I have encountered is finding a belt that has live npc's in it... My opinions are mine. If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Lugh Crow-Slave 2682	Posted - 2016.05.29 09:00:37 - [2451] - Quote Sgt Ocker wrote: Nunesamaniac wrote: CCP Rise wrote: .... First, let me clear up some confusion by saying that this feature has no relationship with the 'Tribute' system that was described last year at EVE Vegas. That feature has actually gone down a path more focused on goal setting and long term engagement than daily activity and so the daily part was broken off and given to our team separately. With that in mind, we are trying to find the right mix of activity and accessibility. We want you to be able to collect this reward during a lunch break or a 10 minute period where your kids are in timeout but also want to make sure there's some real gameplay associated with it. We think getting to a belt or gate for an NPC is about the right mix and that's why we've landed with this... This task is not easy for characters that are devoted to non combat roles. I have one character that has no combat skills and it took me about 40 minutes to kill a single rat because he literally has 0 skills for combat or fitting because the character is made to sit in a station. Now I am forced to train him for basic combat if I want to keep doing this task in a reasonable amount of time. I am finding this the opposite of fun and actually quite frustrating. He is also not contributing to any meaningful play struggling to kill things in a level 1 mission in highsec space. So it would be a trade or indy alt? In which case your farming the SP for future profit? If not and it is a char you are training more skills on, then having basic combat skills to gain an SP boost each day is not a bad thing. My trade alt flies an Atron with meta 4 guns and a web (6 hours of training), I manage to complete the daily in less than 5 minutes each day. The hardest thing I have encountered is finding a belt that has live npc's in it... but why should he have to train into something he has no interest in? Citadel worm hole tax
Sgt Ocker Kenshin. DARKNESS. 979	Posted - 2016.05.29 12:25:16 - [2452] - Quote Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Sgt Ocker wrote: Nunesamaniac wrote: CCP Rise wrote: .... First, let me clear up some confusion by saying that this feature has no relationship with the 'Tribute' system that was described last year at EVE Vegas. That feature has actually gone down a path more focused on goal setting and long term engagement than daily activity and so the daily part was broken off and given to our team separately. With that in mind, we are trying to find the right mix of activity and accessibility. We want you to be able to collect this reward during a lunch break or a 10 minute period where your kids are in timeout but also want to make sure there's some real gameplay associated with it. We think getting to a belt or gate for an NPC is about the right mix and that's why we've landed with this... This task is not easy for characters that are devoted to non combat roles. I have one character that has no combat skills and it took me about 40 minutes to kill a single rat because he literally has 0 skills for combat or fitting because the character is made to sit in a station. Now I am forced to train him for basic combat if I want to keep doing this task in a reasonable amount of time. I am finding this the opposite of fun and actually quite frustrating. He is also not contributing to any meaningful play struggling to kill things in a level 1 mission in highsec space. So it would be a trade or indy alt? In which case your farming the SP for future profit? If not and it is a char you are training more skills on, then having basic combat skills to gain an SP boost each day is not a bad thing. My trade alt flies an Atron with meta 4 guns and a web (6 hours of training), I manage to complete the daily in less than 5 minutes each day. The hardest thing I have encountered is finding a belt that has live npc's in it... but why should he have to train into something he has no interest in? Because he wants the benefit of the new opportunities. It is entirely his choice, if he doesn't want to spend a few hours and a bit of isk for skillbooks - He can do without the benefits it could gain him. I want to use a Golem for my ratting for efficiency (making more isk) - But have to train the skills to do so. If I choose to not train those skills I am stuck using my Tengu for ratting at a slower pace. There is no difference except the minimum training to allow his alt to benefit from better efficiency doing daily opportunities is far lower than for my Golem. Eve is about choices - If you choose not to do something, it is no-ones fault, no-one is forcing him to do the daily, or spend a few hours training minimum combat skills to gain SP a little easier.. 6 hours (which will train while he sleeps) to more easily make 70k SP per week, not too hard is it? After all he did comment about how hard it is for the alt to do the daily (40 mins to kill a single rat) - All I did was suggest a way to remove the "grind" a little for a minimum time and cost outlay. Takes my trade alt (who has less than 100k in combat skills, including starter skills) takes less than 5 minutes to complete the daily - 44 days from now I'll have an injector to sell or give to one of my alts... You want the reward, you take 40 minutes to kill one npc or spend a few hours training basic skills and complete it in a few minutes (Choice) My opinions are mine. If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Rowan Garret Aliastra Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2016.05.29 12:52:58 - [2453] - Quote This is clearly the problem: instead of 20,000 players online at any given time, you each have 10 accounts and 30 characters, so really only 200 people are playing this game. New players either have to shell out hundreds of dollars to get a leg up and be able to play the game, or shell out hundreds of dollars to be able to set a training queue long enough to be able to play the game in 3 months.. Y'all say sandbox like this game can be played any way other than forced PvP, and feel somehow entitled because you've been playing 30 characters X years to be able to completely force new players out. The game you all are describing isn't an MMO, it is a single player game that is run on an external server instead of your own rig. And since you have 30 characters, what does that say about this concept of "where your choices have real consequences?" When you can make an unlimited number alts to perform every career specialization and trade all the things you need to do to run your entire industry in house without ever once having to interact with other players... Except when you are ganking newbros... Get over it. Isn't that what you tell us rookies?
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 2884	Posted - 2016.05.29 16:08:36 - [2454] - Quote Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: but why should he have to train into something he has no interest in? You have to learn the basic of throwing to play fetch with your dog. Learning to throw isn't gonna help you at all in an accountant job but you also don't need major league baseball level of throw to launch a stick away so your dog go fetch it.
Skia Aumer Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 266	Posted - 2016.05.29 19:45:39 - [2455] - Quote So, the feature is live on TQ. Online numbers didn't grow. When will it be removed?
Shallanna Yassavi Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 200	Posted - 2016.05.29 20:59:25 - [2456] - Quote They're not going to let it go that easily. I give it a month minimum. A signature :o
Marneus Augestus Tactically Challenged Tactical Supremacy 0	Posted - 2016.05.30 03:18:11 - [2457] - Quote I'd like to see it expanded, perhaps with a multiplier, say if you do dailies for 7 days your next one gets 1.5x, the 2x for 14 days etc. At least ive trained some pvp skills on my industry toon, and get him out for some dual boxing , go the rifter!
Luscius Uta Hek Squad Complaints Department 215	Posted - 2016.05.30 11:25:10 - [2458] - Quote Maybe someone else suggested that in this thread already, but could you add this information to API so that EVEMon can tell me when my characters are ready to do another daily? Workarounds are not bugfixes.
Dracvlad Taishi Combine Second-Dawn 1675	Posted - 2016.05.30 11:34:37 - [2459] - Quote I rather like this, means I can make more use of my alts. And people don't have to do it if they don't want to... COHE, the Coalition of Hisec Entities is now in operation, time to make hisec work for people who operate there.
Raging Bull Unchained Einheit X-6 867	Posted - 2016.05.30 11:36:05 - [2460] - Quote Rowan Garret wrote: [...] instead of 20,000 players online at any given time, you each have 10 accounts [...] Sounds totaly like the average EvE player.
NotTheSmartestCookie New Order Logistics CODE. 132	Posted - 2016.05.30 14:34:48 - [2461] - Quote Rowan Garret wrote: This is clearly the problem: instead of 20,000 players online at any given time, you each have 10 accounts and 30 characters, so really only 2000 people are playing this game...... So what you are saying is that all the complainers in this thread is just one or two people posting on all their alts? Makes sense as only a miser would not like free SP for everyone. Making New Eden a better place 8 rounds of Void at a time. Funny, smartest, pretty and relevant. Pick 3. Proud shareholder in Halaima MinerBumping
Visello Gaterau Free Pilots Consortium 5	Posted - 2016.05.30 18:27:56 - [2462] - Quote Marneus Augestus wrote: I'd like to see it expanded, perhaps with a multiplier, say if you do dailies for 7 days your next one gets 1.5x, the 2x for 14 days etc. At least ive trained some pvp skills on my industry toon, and get him out for some dual boxing , go the rifter! And that has been my point that when we first start to feed the impatience we see them ask for more. We can only hope that ccp would open their eyes and stop this so we do not see any one els asking stupid ideas that would end the ruin of a great game.
Daichi Yamato Xero Security and Technologies 3281	Posted - 2016.05.30 18:55:53 - [2463] - Quote SpartanXZero FoxNova wrote: While I can understand the issues of what I can only assume come from the longer term veteran players who may in some way feel cheated of some sort of committed effort by this new addition to the game. As a relatively new player to EvE, an speaking on behalf of the couple players that joined me in this venture. Having this little prompt both for game interaction as well boosting early skill progression to help those players focusing such. Is a welcoming addition, for myself an I'm sure many newer players just joining EvE. Except new players who don't play every day are now training even slower than vets. If you want to boost early skill progression they can do what they used to do, just have sp train faster until a certain threshold is met. SpartanXZero FoxNova wrote: I'm looking forward to further incentives to this feature. I hope they're not huge bonuses, although I could see large bonuses for 1 time only achievements for things like attainment of set security status, faction standings, or 1st time completion of epic arcs. I bet all the no-life-grinders are... EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided" Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Shallanna Yassavi Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 204	Posted - 2016.05.31 04:09:01 - [2464] - Quote Also relevant. Building for instant gratification might be just a little nearsighted. A signature :o
Cyrus Tybalt Blap n Pew 19	Posted - 2016.06.01 13:15:08 - [2465] - Quote Change the bonus SP to be more similar to the Dust 514 model, where you get a set pool of bonus SP to earn every week or month doing certain acivites. (like killing rats) You're already fine with players possibly earning 300.000 bonus SP per month with the current model. So instead of forcing people to log on every single 22 hour period to acquire these bonus skillpoints, set up a "pool" of 300.000 SP for each account for a 30 day interval. That way we at least have a choice if we want to do an intensive 1-day grind to get all 300.000 bonus SP at once (earning 10.000 SP per killed NPC), or spread the grind out over several days if we so choose. I think most players can agree that being forced to log on every 22 hours or get completely left out kind of sucks, and it's also an artficial way of forcing players to change their daily eve activites (some of us don't earn or isk through ratting, missions or incursions but rather through industry and trading after all)
Ronin Stasarik EVE University Ivy League 0	Posted - 2016.06.01 14:57:41 - [2466] - Quote In my opinion..... Getting new players into EVE creates content for all of us. Either directly as in more contact with players via PVP or chatting; or indirectly as in more players subscribing equals more money for CCP which means more development in game. I think most of us can agree more players makes the game better. Everyone who starts EVE nowadays has the same issues eventually: Can't compete with much higher SP players. Can't compete with much higher ISK players. New players are likely to quit the game because of these issues. So, how to get new players ISK and SP commensurate with their efforts and keep them coming back, without upsetting Bitter Vets. Well that is impossible to do but here is the attempt CCP has made. Bless them for trying rather than resting on their laurels. Have activities that low SP characters can do to make ISK. Have activities that low SP characters can to do to get bonus SP. The Vets take a lot for granted that rookies just don't know about , can't afford, or can't be botherd with...... The +5 training implant clone alt whatever that you use to get SP on an engineered skill training plan maximizing neural remaps , etc. That clone is making WAY more SP than any player with a blank clone who gets in his ship and goes to do missions or rat in space. 10k SP isn't forcing anyone to do anything. If you feel that way you need to go breathe some fresh air, maybe talk to a live person. If you crawl onto the EVE forums just to post "No, Stupid, No." You've not helped anyone and made yourself look like a child.
Cyrus Tybalt Blap n Pew 20	Posted - 2016.06.01 15:59:14 - [2467] - Quote Ronin Stasarik wrote: In my opinion..... Getting new players into EVE creates content for all of us. Either directly as in more contact with players via PVP or chatting; or indirectly as in more players subscribing equals more money for CCP which means more development in game. I think most of us can agree more players makes the game better. Everyone who starts EVE nowadays has the same issues eventually: Can't compete with much higher SP players. Can't compete with much higher ISK players. New players are likely to quit the game because of these issues. So, how to get new players ISK and SP commensurate with their efforts and keep them coming back, without upsetting Bitter Vets. Well that is impossible to do but here is the attempt CCP has made. Bless them for trying rather than resting on their laurels. Have activities that low SP characters can do to make ISK. Have activities that low SP characters can to do to get bonus SP. The Vets take a lot for granted that rookies just don't know about , can't afford, or can't be botherd with...... The +5 training implant clone alt whatever that you use to get SP on an engineered skill training plan maximizing neural remaps , etc. That clone is making WAY more SP than any player with a blank clone who gets in his ship and goes to do missions or rat in space. 10k SP isn't forcing anyone to do anything. If you feel that way you need to go breathe some fresh air, maybe talk to a live person. If you crawl onto the EVE forums just to post "No, Stupid, No." You've not helped anyone and made yourself look like a child. Actually, more players doesn't make eve better in every regard. If you've been in- or seen a huge blob fleetfight, you'll see that "more" is not always "better"/more fun. Until the UI and the game mechanics get better adapted to big fleetbattles, more players joining in certainly won't make the game better.
NovaCat13 Seymourus and Co. 225	Posted - 2016.06.02 00:45:44 - [2468] - Quote Ronin Stasarik wrote: In my opinion..... Getting new players into EVE creates content for all of us. Either directly as in more contact with players via PVP or chatting; or indirectly as in more players subscribing equals more money for CCP which means more development in game. I think most of us can agree more players makes the game better. Everyone who starts EVE nowadays has the same issues eventually: Can't compete with much higher SP players. Can't compete with much higher ISK players. New players are likely to quit the game because of these issues. So, how to get new players ISK and SP commensurate with their efforts and keep them coming back, without upsetting Bitter Vets. Well that is impossible to do but here is the attempt CCP has made. Bless them for trying rather than resting on their laurels. Have activities that low SP characters can do to make ISK. Have activities that low SP characters can to do to get bonus SP. The Vets take a lot for granted that rookies just don't know about , can't afford, or can't be botherd with...... The +5 training implant clone alt whatever that you use to get SP on an engineered skill training plan maximizing neural remaps , etc. That clone is making WAY more SP than any player with a blank clone who gets in his ship and goes to do missions or rat in space. 10k SP isn't forcing anyone to do anything. If you feel that way you need to go breathe some fresh air, maybe talk to a live person. If you crawl onto the EVE forums just to post "No, Stupid, No." You've not helped anyone and made yourself look like a child. You look like a child that can't read as CCP has already said this isn't a feature targeted at new players. Just say NO to Dailies
Girdinus Aliastra Gallente Federation 1	Posted - 2016.06.02 04:28:03 - [2469] - Quote Why is that my 2nd character that has an active training queue does not get 10,000 SP from the recurring opportunities?
Mr Mac Dark Goliath 144	Posted - 2016.06.02 04:59:23 - [2470] - Quote Girdinus wrote: Why is that my 2nd character that has an active training queue does not get 10,000 SP from the recurring opportunities? You get 10000 SP per account
elitatwo Eve Minions O.U.Z.O. Alliance 1238	Posted - 2016.06.02 06:40:22 - [2471] - Quote Cyrus Tybalt wrote: Everyone who starts EVE nowadays has the same issues eventually: Can't compete with much higher SP players. Doing what? You do realize, once you trained mining V we both will mine at the same rate as everyone else? The beauty of EVE is that all skill level are the same for everyone. If you can over yourself and your envy out of the way, EVE will be wonderful even for you. Cyrus Tybalt wrote: Can't compete with much higher ISK players. New players are likely to quit the game because of these issues... So can't the "veteran". Eve Minions is recruiting. Learn from about pvp, learn about ships and how to fly them correctly. Small gang and solo action in high, low and nullsec and w-space alike. We will teach you everything you need and want to know.
Miss 'Assassination' Cayman Best Kept Frozen. LowSechnaya Sholupen 148	Posted - 2016.06.02 07:11:31 - [2472] - Quote elitatwo wrote: Cyrus Tybalt wrote: Everyone who starts EVE nowadays has the same issues eventually: Can't compete with much higher SP players. Doing what? You do realize, once you trained mining V we both will mine at the same rate as everyone else? The beauty of EVE is that all skill level are the same for everyone. If you can over yourself and your envy out of the way, EVE will be wonderful even for you. That's a pretty bad example. Even with Mining V there are other skills that go into it, like the ship skills that affect the hull bonus. That's not too bad for mining, but the list of skills that affect performance in combat ships is many months long. You have the hull skill for the bonuses, the skill to use T2 weapons, the support skills to vastly improve the weapons' effectiveness, drone skills for most ships, tanking skills, fitting skills, capacitor skills, navigation skills, possibly Cybernetics for implant, possibly skills for boosters, possibly propulsion jamming and/or ewar skills... You could spend the better part of a year just training to reach maximum effectiveness in one specific ship. And the moment that particular ship isn't what's needed, you either train another set of skills for a ship that is needed or you get left out. Sure, there's a limit on how much SP can improve your ability to do any one thing, but that limit is very high and most players want to do more than one thing.
Cyrus Tybalt Blap n Pew 22	Posted - 2016.06.02 09:46:04 - [2473] - Quote elitatwo wrote: Cyrus Tybalt wrote: Can't compete with much higher ISK players. New players are likely to quit the game because of these issues... So can't the "veteran". quoting the wrong guy there mate.
Rek Seven Art Of Explosions 404 Hole Not Found 2236	Posted - 2016.06.02 10:00:01 - [2474] - Quote Miss 'Assassination' Cayman wrote: elitatwo wrote: Cyrus Tybalt wrote: Everyone who starts EVE nowadays has the same issues eventually: Can't compete with much higher SP players. Doing what? You do realize, once you trained mining V we both will mine at the same rate as everyone else? The beauty of EVE is that all skill level are the same for everyone. If you can over yourself and your envy out of the way, EVE will be wonderful even for you. That's a pretty bad example. Even with Mining V there are other skills that go into it, like the ship skills that affect the hull bonus. That's not too bad for mining, but the list of skills that affect performance in combat ships is many months long. You have the hull skill for the bonuses, the skill to use T2 weapons, the support skills to vastly improve the weapons' effectiveness, drone skills for most ships, tanking skills, fitting skills, capacitor skills, navigation skills, possibly Cybernetics for implant, possibly skills for boosters, possibly propulsion jamming and/or ewar skills... You could spend the better part of a year just training to reach maximum effectiveness in one specific ship. And the moment that particular ship isn't what's needed, you either train another set of skills for a ship that is needed or you get left out. Sure, there's a limit on how much SP can improve your ability to do any one thing, but that limit is very high and most players want to do more than one thing. The point is, you can only train a skill to level 5... So when people say "you can never catch up with older players", this simply is not true. If you pick any ship and decide that you want to have perfect skills for that ship and its fit, that is an achievable goal. The wishlist is pretty much complete...
Skia Aumer Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 270	Posted - 2016.06.02 12:17:27 - [2475] - Quote Ronin Stasarik wrote: Everyone who starts EVE nowadays has the same issues eventually: Can't compete with much higher SP players. Can't compete with much higher ISK players. I've started playing EVE in 2011. Mind you, there were high SP players and high ISK players as well. Five years later, I still dont have skills to fly a Titan, nor do I have ISK to buy one. That's how EVE works. Ronin Stasarik wrote: New players are likely to quit the game because of these issues. New players are likely to quit for the same reason as veterans - lack of content. Markets suffer with general glut. Years ago, I had to sell 2 PLEX to buy myself a Machariel, and some more ISK to fit it. Now I could buy two of them for 1 PLEX, fit included. Logistics in the largest game universe employs... like 1% of its population? That's so wrong. Exploration is non-existent. I mean, you can explore something for yourself. Or you can open dotlan. Of all the thing only PVP is relevant. Kind of. Wars in highsec are so uneventful. When wardecced, you just leave a corp or sit in dock for a week. Exciting! Btw, about 90% of subscribers live in highsec. What CCP should do is to add more sand into the sandbox. And they are doing just that. Citadels are an excellent example of how the game should develop. It creates ripple on stagnant markets. It gives you the tools to build your home. The home that you will cherish, and for which you will fight. TLDR: Citadels - good. Dailies - bad.
Khan Wrenth Ore Oppression Prevention and Salvation 601	Posted - 2016.06.02 15:18:09 - [2476] - Quote Miss 'Assassination' Cayman wrote: That's a pretty bad example. Even with Mining V there are other skills that go into it, like the ship skills that affect the hull bonus. That's not too bad for mining, but the list of skills that affect performance in combat ships is many months long. You have the hull skill for the bonuses, the skill to use T2 weapons, the support skills to vastly improve the weapons' effectiveness, drone skills for most ships, tanking skills, fitting skills, capacitor skills, navigation skills, possibly Cybernetics for implant, possibly skills for boosters, possibly propulsion jamming and/or ewar skills... You could spend the better part of a year just training to reach maximum effectiveness in one specific ship. And the moment that particular ship isn't what's needed, you either train another set of skills for a ship that is needed or you get left out. Sure, there's a limit on how much SP can improve your ability to do any one thing, but that limit is very high and most players want to do more than one thing. This is a very misleading statement. Almost every skill you cited is used across multiple hulls or every single hull. Tanking skills work for half of all ships at all times. And in a pinch, every bit of shield, armor, and structure buffer is a good thing, regardless of which one your primary tank is. Capacitor and navigation are used on every ship. Heck, even racial ships are very useful. Caldari cruiser V works for their entire line of cruisers, it's half the requirement for their tech II cruisers, and half the requirement for a chunk of pirate vessels. Turret optimal range, tracking, and falloff work across all turret sizes for three different races of turrets. Even specific weapons work across multiple ships. Medium hybrids work for a selection of Caldari AND Gallente vessels, both cruiser and battlecruiser. Even for turrets that aren't shared by multiple races, you're talking about a weapon platform that can be used by a wide array of tech I and tech I cruisers AND battlecruisers. Truth is that yes, you can spend a lot of time perfecting your skills for a specific vessel. But most, if not all of those skills will carry over to your next chosen hull. And not all skills absolutely need to be at level V immediately either. You can let some slide to level IV until you have a larger selection of vessels to chose from. When you have enough choices to keep you entertained, you can pick one to start getting V's in and go from there. All that being an aside, however, to the primary discussion about recurring opportunities. The fact of the matter is that CCP can spin any logic to justify or amplify them. "Not enough logins, we should bump up the rewards". Or, "Logins went up (we won't ask what the actual reason was for this), so mission accomplished and RO are here to stay!" I still say the best advice is to build a game people want to login for. That's the only viable long-term solution. Whether there's a real problem or if it's just perceived, that's up for debate. But in either case, the solution is "make sure people enjoy this experience". Let's discuss overhauling the way we get intel in EvE.
Chatarina DeBeers Lost Valkyries 26	Posted - 2016.06.02 17:35:14 - [2477] - Quote I'm not part of the "powerblock". I'm just a low end player who likes to blow things up in wormhole space. Well, used to be, more like it. I'm just keeping tabs atm. If there's one good thing about skill injectors and WoW XP dailies, it must be that noobies will buy shiny stuff sooner. And I do love that shiny stuff! ;)
DrysonBennington Eagle's Talon's 284	Posted - 2016.06.02 22:18:00 - [2478] - Quote Maybe some new Opportunity Skill Points would involve the first salvaging of the day or having the first Quafe of the day.
Yun Kuai Justified Chaos Spaceship Bebop 316	Posted - 2016.06.03 13:30:49 - [2479] - Quote Yun Kuai wrote: The more I think about the prospect of "daily opportunities" the less I like the idea applying to the entire player base and I'll explain why in a moment. However, I do want to call out my support for this idea of rewarding players, but obviously in a different format. Instead of delivering daily opportunities for the entire player base, evolve this program to better help with the NPE. When I first started playing this game almost 8 years ago, the appeal was in the difficulty of the game and that it was such a vast game with so many options to explore compiled with the thrill of learning how to do them. Fast forward to the new player experience and you have a system that better teaches new players how to get involved with the game, but for no actual reward to them. Thus, enter the opportunities reward system that rewards new players with ships, modules, isk, and skill books like the old tutorials of the past with the addition of SP. Why would this help the NPE? The NPE is designed to get new guys learning the game at their own pace and giving them the option to get involved where they want to get involved. This means the new guys are going to try out different things; i.e. different aspects of the game. By giving them freebies that are useful like a venture for mining, a racial frig for pve/pvp, a racial frig for exploration and some basic supporting modules to actually give new players the ability to try the activity, you're setting them up to stick around as they can find something that they enjoy in the game and get started doing it much faster than previously before. Where does the addition of SP come into play? The addition of SP would be the icing on the cake for new players. As they bounce around different career options in EvE, they're going to be picking up new ships and modules to get them started, but they still have to overcome the time barrier that is so unique to EvE. As in all things in life, the best things are the ones you work for. The NPE would now reward new players with SP so that when they complete the NPE opportunity and find that it's something they want to pursue in EvE they now have some extra SP to add to the skills they picked up; i.e. making them better at the activity which should directly correlate to more fun and the desire to keep logging in to play more. Or if on the other hand they finish a NPE opportunity and decide they don't like that activity, they have extra SP to invest into another activity that they do enjoy; i.e. no lost time and no hard feelings/feelings of wasted opportunities. Overall what effects would this have on the NPE? You would have new players engaging in the game, setting them up with a very basic "survival kit" in game to get them started. They would have ships, modules, and isk to get them on their feet and also enough SP to get more involved in their preferred activity. Are there any concerns of rewarding new players like this? The biggest concern would be limiting the SP gained. Lets say to complete all of the NPE Opportunities takes 1 month. The total SP rewarded added to the 1 month training should not be over 5mil SP so that alts can't be rolled and farmed as skill injectors. Regarding the ships, modules, and isk, personally I don't see these as being problematic at all. In fact, supporting new guys so that they stick around should be priority number one. Now, why do I not like the idea of daily opportunities in EvE for the entire player base? The stated goal of this project is to get players logging in as it was measured that logging in to set skills in the past would lead more players to then stay logged in, undock, and do something in EvE. However, as many have already voiced their concerns, this project will only lead to people feeling this is a chore. The changes to the skill queue only highlight the inefficiency of EvE's non-pvp centric activities: there's not a prolific reason to log in, undock, and create some form of content. IGÇÖve been playing this game now for almost 8 years and there have only been a few moderate changes to the PvE content, but even then the content remains 90% the same. Mining hasnGÇÖt changed at all, relic/data sites got a makeover on the UI; read mini game, but the overall concept is still the same, missions havenGÇÖt changed at all minus the burner missions that never got filled out, industry and PI are still 100% set up, walk away, finish job, collect, and repeat, and the list goes on. Dailies are not dangling a carrot in front of you; theyGÇÖre poking you in the back with a sharp point while youGÇÖre walking in chains. The point is dailies arenGÇÖt addressing the issue why players arenGÇÖt logging in. It doesnGÇÖt have to do anything with setting skills at this point in the gameGÇÖs 13 year lifespan, but more in line with the fact that many activities are outdated and havenGÇÖt received the updates needed to keep them interesting to the GÇ£veteransGÇ¥. I'm reposting this here again in the thread because it needs to be seen. I've bolded the final statement that really states why these dailies are such a bad idea. CCP you had a great opportunity here to completely update missions, mining, PI, industry, trading, incursions, exploration, complex/deds, salvage, hacking, analysing, Had you done this in conjunction with releasing dailies, you would have finally introduced something that, I dare say, most of your player base would all agree was good/healthy for the game. But you took the lazy route and just introduced dailies because it's cheap and quick to do --------------------------------------------------------::::::::::::--:::-----:::---::::::::::::--------------:::----------:::----:::---:::----------------------:::::::-------:::---:::----::::::-------------------:::-----------:::--:::----:::---------------------::::::::::::----:::::::----:::::::::::::-------
Drammie Askold Saints Of Havoc I N G L O R I O U S 38	Posted - 2016.06.03 22:27:10 - [2480] - Quote One thing I had not realised is that the 22hr limit means that after one opportunity you cannot perform the same one until 22 hours are up; not as I had thought that you had 22 hours to complete the task or the opportunity had gone. My objection about this was misplaced. What New Eden needed was Wise Immortal Philosopher Kings. What New Eden got was Sociopathic Immortal poo-flinging monkeys . . . vOv
Circumstantial Evidence 322	Posted - 2016.06.04 16:57:36 - [2481] - Quote Thus far I've managed to avoid participating in this feature, yet I'm still active on various characters, doing whatever it is that they do, but since that stuff does not include shooting NPC's, it goes unrewarded... except for the rewards of the miscellaneous activities themselves.
Tantaris Taron Unternehmen STARDUST 0	Posted - 2016.06.04 18:14:21 - [2482] - Quote sorry but this is stupid. It is just like any other random MMORPG now. I wanted to play EVE BECAUSE of the skill training time. and almost 5H (10,000) Skill per 22 H/NPC Kill? Who's craqsy idea was that. Please quit this. I will see how this is doing and if it couse to mutch trouble in the game balance I dop not know what I will do next.
Moac Tor Cyber Core Stain Confederation 565	Posted - 2016.06.04 23:26:34 - [2483] - Quote Has anyone checked to see if dailies have actually increased active user count? Personally I have actually been slightly less active since dailies were introduced due to loss of of enthusiasm for the game. I've only managed to claim one daily bonus so far. Has anyone found this has encouraged them to log on, or has it had the opposite effect, or no effect at all? Modulated ECM Effects An Alternative to Skill Trading
Khan Wrenth Ore Oppression Prevention and Salvation 605	Posted - 2016.06.05 01:04:58 - [2484] - Quote Moac Tor wrote: Has anyone checked to see if dailies have actually increased active user count? Personally I have actually been slightly less active since dailies were introduced due to loss of of enthusiasm for the game. I've only managed to claim one daily bonus so far. Has anyone found this has encouraged them to log on, or has it had the opposite effect, or no effect at all? Too early to tell; sample size still too small. You'd probably need a rolling 6-month average and compare the trending numbers (up or down) to last year's, and then factor in and filter out pre-existing trending up/down numbers that were due to changes implemented (like Citadels), then factor in out-of-game-things like how the economy has changed which would effect how many people could afford to keep their subscription going, then factor for in-game things which cause subscriptions to rise and fall like world war Bee or a lack of wars, etc etc etc... In other words, it's about impossible to know for sure. The best you can hope for is anecdotal stories of individuals coming to the forums and claiming they log in more often strictly because of dailies, and pray they aren't lying about it. So, the only thing we'll ever be able to say for sure is that the feature is a failure because the only thing it was designed to do was left without a way to accurately measure any possible success. Let's discuss overhauling the way we get intel in EvE.
Cyrus Tybalt Blap n Pew 24	Posted - 2016.06.05 11:27:32 - [2485] - Quote Moac Tor wrote: Has anyone checked to see if dailies have actually increased active user count? Personally I have actually been slightly less active since dailies were introduced due to loss of of enthusiasm for the game. I've only managed to claim one daily bonus so far. Has anyone found this has encouraged them to log on, or has it had the opposite effect, or no effect at all? I don't log on to get some miniscule daily amount of extra SP. I log on to earn isk in order to build something and amassing capital to afford bigger, badder ships to use for PvP. Also, through earning isk, I can buy way more SP than I can get from these dailies by purchasing skill injectors.
Cyrus Tybalt Blap n Pew 24	Posted - 2016.06.05 11:40:23 - [2486] - Quote Rek Seven wrote: The point is, you can only train a skill to level 5... So when people say "you can never catch up with older players", this simply is not true. If you pick any ship and decide that you want to have perfect skills for that ship and its fit, that is an achievable goal. I don't think people mean skilltraining when they talk about being unable to "catch up" to older players though. Being unable to catch up has more to do with financial capital and assets. It's really hard, or even impossible to truly compete on equal terms with a group that is well established in an area and with fat wallets, since they can afford bringing out bling fitted PvP ships of epic destruction, lose them and simply bring out some more in order to defend their territory, while a group of newbro's simply can't afford to do that. And it doesn't work trying to grind for more isk either, because while you do that, the targeted group of older players does the same, so the difference gap in capital and assets remain, unless you luck out and go to war against a largely inactive/lazy group of players. But finding those as newbro's would be difficult, since such groups are more likely to get swallowed up by other groups of established older players. This phenomena is of course very natural since they game mechanics look the way they do. But the sad part is that it kind of goes against the whole "build your dreams, do what you want"-crap that CCP tries to sell off Eve as. You aren't really able to "do what you want" if your freedom is so severely hampered by established bittervets with insane levels of financial capital and assets to their names. Being forced to join a bigger corp or alliance to earn real isk isn't exactly my idea of "build your dream, do what you want", if I want to be a CEO of one of those big corps or big alliances. This is sort of the reason why I like living in a wormhole system, because you feel more "free" from the oppression of more established and well financed blocs in the game. Because while it is hostile territory, the nature of wormholes make them difficult to mount a real assault onyour bases in terms of logistics. And there's plenty of wormhole systems to go round as well, so there's rarely any need to invade someone elses system and take it from them. If I wanted to live in nullsec, I'd be more oppressed by established groups.
Skia Aumer Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 275	Posted - 2016.06.05 13:30:41 - [2487] - Quote Cyrus Tybalt wrote: Being unable to catch up has more to do with financial capital and assets. ... This phenomena is of course very natural since they game mechanics look the way they do. But the sad part is that it kind of goes against the whole "build your dreams, do what you want"-crap that CCP tries to sell off Eve as. No, it doesnt. It does, however, go against "get instant access to your dreams from day one"-crap that CCP turns EVE into to please you, the newbros and newsissies alike. If you, the newbros and newsissies, had spent at least a token effort to understand how EVE works instead of whining on reddits, you'd probably understand that after a certain threshold neither the amount of ISK, nor the amount of SP cannot offset determination and enthusiasm. That's how you catch up with older players. Oh noes, you've just learned something about EVE! Quick, flush it away from your memory or this cancer will make you a bittervet in no time! JK, it wont. But you better stop assigning labels like unestablished newsissy.
Cyrus Tybalt Blap n Pew 24	Posted - 2016.06.05 15:08:53 - [2488] - Quote Skia Aumer wrote: Cyrus Tybalt wrote: Being unable to catch up has more to do with financial capital and assets. ... This phenomena is of course very natural since they game mechanics look the way they do. But the sad part is that it kind of goes against the whole "build your dreams, do what you want"-crap that CCP tries to sell off Eve as. No, it doesnt. It does, however, go against "get instant access to your dreams from day one"-crap that CCP turns EVE into to please you, the newbros and newsissies alike. If you, the newbros and newsissies, had spent at least a token effort to understand how EVE works instead of whining on reddits, you'd probably understand that after a certain threshold neither the amount of ISK, nor the amount of SP cannot offset determination and enthusiasm. That's how you catch up with older players. Oh noes, you've just learned something about EVE! Quick, flush it away from your memory or this cancer will make you a bittervet in no time! JK, it wont. But you better stop assigning labels like unestablished newsissy. Evidently I understand the mechanics of EVE better than you do because your lame attempt at a counter argument basically bottles down to: "You're wrong, because [Ad hominem] and baseless accusations of my lack of knowledge and understanding of the game mechanics and equally baseless accusations of me being a whining newbro (you may note that my account is from 2008?)." If you seriously believe that there's no critical competition between players i terms of resources, capital and assets, and that "mere elbowgrease and hard work" will land you in a position of ruling a nullsec region, then there's really no need for me to continue discussing the matter with you because your stance blatantly ignores the critical aspect of player interaction and it's ramifications on the success and failure of people trying to settle and conquer null sec systems. Better luck next time, little grasshopper. :)
Skia Aumer Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 276	Posted - 2016.06.05 17:28:44 - [2489] - Quote Cyrus Tybalt wrote: my account is from 2008 Oh. You play for 8 years, live in a wormhole and speculate on difficulties that new players have conquering nullsec. Is that correct? Cyrus Tybalt wrote: If you seriously believe that there's no critical competition between players i terms of resources, capital and assets, and that "mere elbowgrease and hard work" will land you in a position of ruling a nullsec region, then there's really no need for me to continue discussing the matter with you because your stance blatantly ignores the critical aspect of player interaction and it's ramifications on the success and failure of people trying to settle and conquer null sec systems. It's been a year since we regained southern regions. During this period, there were zero attempts to conquer any of those systems. Where are all those mysterious newbros you're trying to defend? Guess they struggle fitting a caracal with entosis link? Tell me about ramifications.
Nevyn Auscent Broke Sauce 3274	Posted - 2016.06.06 07:33:13 - [2490] - Quote Moac Tor wrote: Has anyone checked to see if dailies have actually increased active user count? Personally I have actually been slightly less active since dailies were introduced due to loss of of enthusiasm for the game. I've only managed to claim one daily bonus so far. Has anyone found this has encouraged them to log on, or has it had the opposite effect, or no effect at all? Eve offline shows no trend at all. While it is too early to say for sure, most patches of note show a jump in activity as people flock to try the new things. So given that any 6 month trend includes at least 1 major expansion and a bunch of significant patches, it's probably fair to say that recurring opportunities are going to have negligible effect overall, if not a long term negative effect due to disillusionment & burn out.
Shallanna Yassavi Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 214	Posted - 2016.06.06 09:55:11 - [2491] - Quote Maybe the introduction of level grind was precisely to discourage the hordes of alts. All this complaining of "I have 10 accounts, I'm unsubbing over this" might just be working as intended. Maybe the best statistic for how healthy EVE is as a game is: number of unique players logged in. If they make maintenance of a horde of alts enough of a hassle, there will be something for a lot of real players to do. Thinning out the horde of sock puppets might be healthy for the game. Your own sock puppets are a lot simpler to interact with than other players, and you don't have to worry about them running off with your stuff unless you're doing smoke-and-mirrors. A signature :o
Nevyn Auscent Broke Sauce 3275	Posted - 2016.06.06 10:22:06 - [2492] - Quote Shallanna Yassavi wrote: Maybe the introduction of level grind was precisely to discourage the hordes of alts. All this complaining of "I have 10 accounts, I'm unsubbing over this" might just be working as intended. Maybe the best statistic for how healthy EVE is as a game is: number of unique players logged in. If they make maintenance of a horde of alts enough of a hassle, there will be something for a lot of real players to do. Thinning out the horde of sock puppets might be healthy for the game. Your own sock puppets are a lot simpler to interact with than other players, and you don't have to worry about them running off with your stuff unless you're doing smoke-and-mirrors. The average accounts per player is around 1.5. There is not a significant number of alts overall, so that's not a very valid argument.
Skia Aumer Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 278	Posted - 2016.06.06 12:01:20 - [2493] - Quote Nevyn Auscent wrote: Skia Aumer wrote: It's been a year since we regained southern regions. During this period, there were zero attempts to conquer any of those systems. Where are all those mysterious newbros you're trying to defend? Guess they struggle fitting a caracal with entosis link? Tell me about ramifications. The newbro's either get sucked into those coalitions, or decide not to bother with Null because they are 500 titans too late to the game. Spot on. They decide to lose the fight before even starting it. "I will not try to contest that system because 500 titans will drop on my entosing caracal". "I will not join those coalitions because I will be oppressed by evil overlords". "I will not go to live in Providence because I will die to a gate camp". Mindset of a looser. I'd be fine with that. This is a sandbox game and as long as you pay subscription you can play whatever style you want. But there goes CCP saying "guys! we'll nerf them titans, crush overlords and make ships invulnerable to camp! now you can finally do what you always wanted to do!" F@ck that bullsh*t. They will find other excuses.
Skia Aumer Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 278	Posted - 2016.06.06 12:22:01 - [2494] - Quote Nevyn Auscent wrote: CCP will of course, almost certainly not admit this, because anyone with a brain could see it wasn't going to significantly affect concurrent login numbers right from the get go, and therefore that argument has to have been a facade for whatever their real reason for introducing the level grind to EVE was. Ah, the conspiracy theory. The goal was set loud and clear: to induce more logins. More logins -> more content -> more subscribers -> more money. TBH, I'm a bit surprised, I was pretty sure it would work. But thank Bob, it failed. Now we have all reasons to demand removing this abomination from EVE.
Neadayan Drakhon Heuristic Industrial And Development AddictClan 242	Posted - 2016.06.07 07:08:09 - [2495] - Quote Alright CCP, you did your skinner box experiment, can we get rid of dailies yet?
Blade Darth Room for Improvement Limited Expectations 8	Posted - 2016.06.07 08:33:27 - [2496] - Quote "daily skinner box" Like it so far (except name, who came up with "recurring"?), it's not so much sp to encourage logging all 5 alts to get it, but a nice bonus on the side. Gather 100 or 200k and apply to that "one skill you sort of need but never wanted to train" :)
Sgt Ocker Kenshin. DARKNESS. 988	Posted - 2016.06.07 08:56:35 - [2497] - Quote Skia Aumer wrote: Nevyn Auscent wrote: CCP will of course, almost certainly not admit this, because anyone with a brain could see it wasn't going to significantly affect concurrent login numbers right from the get go, and therefore that argument has to have been a facade for whatever their real reason for introducing the level grind to EVE was. Ah, the conspiracy theory. The goal was set loud and clear: to induce more logins. More logins -> more content -> more subscribers -> more money. TBH, I'm a bit surprised, I was pretty sure it would work. But thank Bob, it failed. Now we have all reasons to demand removing this abomination from EVE. I actually logged in an alt that is just doing skill cues online (due to the length of his current skill cue) 5 times to collect the "bonus" SP, applied it,, noticed it had no real affect on the skill it was applied to - and gave it up as a simple nuisance task I am not bothered about. In fact this has been a bit of a nudge to just not bother renewing this particular sub when it next rolls around, after all, it's not like I "really" need all my accounts anymore. CCP saw to that quite effectively. 7 down, 4 to go.... My opinions are mine. If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
FoxFire Ayderan 223	Posted - 2016.06.07 17:55:54 - [2498] - Quote Moac Tor wrote: Has anyone checked to see if dailies have actually increased active user count? Personally I have actually been slightly less active since dailies were introduced due to loss of of enthusiasm for the game. I've only managed to claim one daily bonus so far. Has anyone found this has encouraged them to log on, or has it had the opposite effect, or no effect at all? The systems I tend to hang out in have never been busier. Dailies? Citadel expansion? Who's to say.
Juliet DiMarco WiNGSPAN Delivery Services WiNGSPAN Delivery Network 277	Posted - 2016.06.09 01:35:23 - [2499] - Quote Moac Tor wrote: Has anyone checked to see if dailies have actually increased active user count? Personally I have actually been slightly less active since dailies were introduced due to loss of of enthusiasm for the game. I've only managed to claim one daily bonus so far. Has anyone found this has encouraged them to log on, or has it had the opposite effect, or no effect at all? I've stopped buying PLEX packs every month for multi character training/skill injectors and I've been significantly less active in game. It's funny because I used to be totally focused on pumping my characters with as much SP as possible, it didn't take me long to burn out once injectors were introduced. Injectors/dailies have made me realize how stupid the SP chase really is and it's bugged me how quickly CCP is willing to abandon core game tenets for better quarterly reporting numbers. As a result I'm discovering that my only goal in this game for the past 2 years or so has been a blind march to make my characters "stronger," to be able to fly the next thing even if I never planned to actually use the ship/module/benefit of the training in practice. Since dailies were introduced and they limited the gain to one character per account, my entertainment money has been spent on other games. Last week I realized I'm having way more fun playing Overwatch than I had been in Eve, it's cool what taking a break from a routine will help you learn. Totally different style of game, I know, but I'd still be running incursions on my alt or exploring on Juliet to buy the next injector / replace the next set of lost +5s if it weren't for dailies. Thanks for the new found freedom from your product, CCP!
Rexeva Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 0	Posted - 2016.06.09 20:16:20 - [2500] - Quote zluq zabaa wrote: I like it. Thanks CCP. Please add more diversity to it and EVE will flourish. What does it actually change? GÇó rewards activity vs. just passive income (while crying in forums) GÇó creates an SP shower as a counterweight to the massive SP drain induced by skill injectors GÇó realizes SP as one of the most precious commodities (inb4 someone lessoning about SP: blablabla, you need them as well as experience, only one of the two won't help you much) GÇó it adds a reward that's not straightforward exploitable by the already (isk/sp) rich People who are whining are: GÇó guys who invested billions over billions in skill injectors GÇó oldbros who got few million free sp for cruiser/bc V (newbros have to train each of them one by one) GÇó people who complain being -+forced-½ to do something, while they don't use most of the opportunities already out there GÇó guys who thought they're finally good at this game GÇó generally people who don't care about EVE as a community game, but about themselves getting/staying on top of it EVE is a great game, because it evolves, because it changes. Creating opportunities and more content for new players is very much desireable for the whole game. It's basically the only way EVE can strive. Catering the entitled feelings of bitter oldbros would be the one thing that slowly kills this game. If it was up to me, I'd decide to shake up all of it far more to ensure that EVE stays interesting and not a muddy pit of habit, stasis and boredom. Maybe add a Single Player version of EVE for all the people who hate change. * Theoretical max. of +327k SP/month per Account for logging in every 22h is the (current) equivalent of spending between 385M and 1.9B per month on Skill Injectors (depending on your current overall SP). Instead of logging in every day, just log in once, make some ISK and pay someone else for SP * It's hilarious how people will threaten to leave this game over and over again. It would be so nice if some of those actually left the game. There are many people with different interests in here. Be a part of it and accept that not everything will always be in your favor. Or just go. Really - if you hate it so much, please just leave the game. It will be better for yourself and EVE, if you don't poison the atmosphere and your own mind by your constant whining. Totally agree ^^^^^^^
Neadayan Drakhon Heuristic Industrial And Development AddictClan 247	Posted - 2016.06.10 06:16:50 - [2501] - Quote zluq zabaa wrote: I like it. Thanks CCP. Please add more diversity to it and EVE will flourish. What does it actually change? GÇó rewards activity vs. just passive income (while crying in forums) GÇó creates an SP shower as a counterweight to the massive SP drain induced by skill injectors GÇó realizes SP as one of the most precious commodities (inb4 someone lessoning about SP: blablabla, you need them as well as experience, only one of the two won't help you much) GÇó it adds a reward that's not straightforward exploitable by the already (isk/sp) rich People who are whining are: GÇó guys who invested billions over billions in skill injectors GÇó oldbros who got few million free sp for cruiser/bc V (newbros have to train each of them one by one) GÇó people who complain being -+forced-½ to do something, while they don't use most of the opportunities already out there GÇó guys who thought they're finally good at this game GÇó generally people who don't care about EVE as a community game, but about themselves getting/staying on top of it EVE is a great game, because it evolves, because it changes. Creating opportunities and more content for new players is very much desireable for the whole game. It's basically the only way EVE can strive. Catering the entitled feelings of bitter oldbros would be the one thing that slowly kills this game. If it was up to me, I'd decide to shake up all of it far more to ensure that EVE stays interesting and not a muddy pit of habit, stasis and boredom. Maybe add a Single Player version of EVE for all the people who hate change. * Theoretical max. of +327k SP/month per Account for logging in every 22h is the (current) equivalent of spending between 385M and 1.9B per month on Skill Injectors (depending on your current overall SP). Instead of logging in every day, just log in once, make some ISK and pay someone else for SP * It's hilarious how people will threaten to leave this game over and over again. It would be so nice if some of those actually left the game. There are many people with different interests in here. Be a part of it and accept that not everything will always be in your favor. Or just go. Really - if you hate it so much, please just leave the game. It will be better for yourself and EVE, if you don't poison the atmosphere and your own mind by your constant whining. What does it actually change? -instant gratification rather than rewarding patience and planning -further devalues SP, which should only be available through training, and not skill trading or dailies -adds directed gameplay in what is supposed to be an open sandbox game People who are in favor of dailies are: -only interested in more sp in less time by whatever means they can get rather than considering that this and skill trading are poor game design, especially for the core concepts of EVE. -not really interested in a sandbox, they want directed gameplay People who are against dailies are: -people who left other MMO's to get away from daily grinds -people who prefer to not be told by CCP how to play in the sandbox -people who can spot a skinner box from a mile away Personally I have not threatened to leave EVE, such threats are empty without followthrough, and despite the handful of bad changes (skill trading, dailies, the watchlist nerf) as a whole I still enjoy the game and the people I play it with. However, I will continue to point out bad ideas when I see them.
Dallenn V0LTA WE FORM V0LTA 1	Posted - 2016.06.10 13:49:45 - [2502] - Quote This is game breaking and counter productive. Please remove or set the reward to 2000-3000 sp.
Swiftstrike1 Swiftstrike Incorporated 909	Posted - 2016.06.10 16:38:16 - [2503] - Quote While I doubt this post will ever see the light of day down here at post number 2501... It would be more convenient if the "timer" between 2 occurrences was simply the normal downtime. You would still be unable to do it more than once every 24h on average, but it would make it much easier if there was no timer to keep in mind. For comparison, see jump clone timers. Admittedly, that issue was slightly different and we had a skill implemented to deal with it. This seems like a quick and easy QoL fix to me though. Casual Incursion runner & Faction Warfare grunt, ex-Wormholer, ex-Nullbear.
Frostys Virpio Yet another corpdot. 2912	Posted - 2016.06.10 17:05:55 - [2504] - Quote Swiftstrike1 wrote: While I doubt this post will ever see the light of day down here at post number 2501... It would be more convenient if the "timer" between 2 occurrences was simply the normal downtime. You would still be unable to do it more than once every 24h on average, but it would make it much easier if there was no timer to keep in mind. For comparison, see jump clone timers. Admittedly, that issue was slightly different and we had a skill implemented to deal with it. This seems like a quick and easy QoL fix to me though. The skill to reduce JC timer from 24 hours to 24 -(1 x skill level) hours was a QoL that brought us up around the QoL level that recurring opportunity are.
Indigo Love-Jones Sanity Forgotten inPanic 2	Posted - 2016.06.11 21:02:01 - [2505] - Quote Hi, Please get rid of these stupid dailies. I live in Null Sec, there is so much to do as an industrialist as it is in null, I do not want to have to be forced to do these dailies, I rather you get rid of them than have them at all. I have a Roqual pilot and I boost for a system from up time to downtime. With these dailies I am forced to find time to do the dailies before I can begin boosting. I am saying forced because since you have introduced these dailies I feel that I have to do them since you are giving away free SP. I shouldn't be put in a situation where I have to decide to do these dailies at all. Also the Rorqual was design specifically to boost without any Gunnery or Missile skills. So now I have to find some kind of ship to go kill a stupid rat in order to for me to gain your stupid 10000 SP. This is not fair at all, anybody doing hordes automatically gets these SP's because its their daily routines. What about boosters including combat boosters, we do not do any killings but now we have too now. Also miners, not every miner kills rats as most organised industrialist have ether a dedicated miner that does the killing or dedicated ship to do the killing of rats for you. Why are you forcing me to do these dailies. Remove them its not needed. If you feel its needed then make it fair, give me SP for boosting, give me SP for mining, give me SP for researching and so on. Why killing rat, not everyone does that. Make it fair for everyone, for every play style. Regards, Indigo Love-Jones Regards, Indigo Love-Jones
Bla5to Frigate 256th Shadow Wing Phantom-Recon 30	Posted - 2016.06.12 00:29:45 - [2506] - Quote Indigo Love-Jones wrote: Hi, Please get rid of these stupid dailies. I live in Null Sec, there is so much to do as an industrialist as it is in null, I do not want to have to be forced to do these dailies, I rather you get rid of them than have them at all. I have a Roqual pilot and I boost for a system from up time to downtime. With these dailies I am forced to find time to do the dailies before I can begin boosting. I am saying forced because since you have introduced these dailies I feel that I have to do them since you are giving away free SP. I shouldn't be put in a situation where I have to decide to do these dailies at all. Also the Rorqual was design specifically to boost without any Gunnery or Missile skills. So now I have to find some kind of ship to go kill a stupid rat in order to for me to gain your stupid 10000 SP. This is not fair at all, anybody doing hordes automatically gets these SP's because its their daily routines. What about boosters including combat boosters, we do not do any killings but now we have too now. Also miners, not every miner kills rats as most organised industrialist have ether a dedicated miner that does the killing or dedicated ship to do the killing of rats for you. Why are you forcing me to do these dailies. Remove them its not needed. If you feel its needed then make it fair, give me SP for boosting, give me SP for mining, give me SP for researching and so on. Why killing rat, not everyone does that. Make it fair for everyone, for every play style. Regards, Indigo Love-Jones Just don't do them, or do them like me, which is when and if I have the time. Some days I do, some days I don't. No skin off my teeth. It's a game, don't sweat the small stuff... Have fun and recruit your real life friends so we can keep playing!
Neadayan Drakhon Heuristic Industrial And Development AddictClan 252	Posted - 2016.06.12 02:25:14 - [2507] - Quote Indigo Love-Jones wrote: Hi, Please get rid of these stupid dailies. I live in Null Sec, there is so much to do as an industrialist as it is in null, I do not want to have to be forced to do these dailies, I rather you get rid of them than have them at all. I have a Roqual pilot and I boost for a system from up time to downtime. With these dailies I am forced to find time to do the dailies before I can begin boosting. I am saying forced because since you have introduced these dailies I feel that I have to do them since you are giving away free SP. I shouldn't be put in a situation where I have to decide to do these dailies at all. Also the Rorqual was design specifically to boost without any Gunnery or Missile skills. So now I have to find some kind of ship to go kill a stupid rat in order to for me to gain your stupid 10000 SP. This is not fair at all, anybody doing hordes automatically gets these SP's because its their daily routines. What about boosters including combat boosters, we do not do any killings but now we have too now. Also miners, not every miner kills rats as most organised industrialist have ether a dedicated miner that does the killing or dedicated ship to do the killing of rats for you. Why are you forcing me to do these dailies. Remove them its not needed. If you feel its needed then make it fair, give me SP for boosting, give me SP for mining, give me SP for researching and so on. Why killing rat, not everyone does that. Make it fair for everyone, for every play style. Regards, Indigo Love-Jones Agreed, dailies should never have been put in, the fear-of-missing-out (FOMO) you describe is real, CCP is blatantly taking advantage of this. Bla5to Frigate wrote: Just don't do them, or do them like me, which is when and if I have the time. Some days I do, some days I don't. No skin off my teeth. It's a game, don't sweat the small stuff... Have fun and recruit your real life friends so we can keep playing! FOMO is a real thing, it's what makes people feel forced to do things like this even when they consiously know they're optional and no matter how many times people like you say "just don't do them." People with FOMO can't not do it, its not optional to them. It's been said throught this thread, since before this horrible feature was implemented, that optional or not, it won't feel optional to many people. Just because its optional to you doesn't mean it is for everyone. CCP - GET RID OF DAILIES.
sero Hita Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 173	Posted - 2016.06.12 08:52:20 - [2508] - Quote Neadayan Drakhon wrote: FOMO is a real thing, it's 9what makes people feel forced to do things like this even when they consiously know they're optional and no matter how many times people like you say "just don't do them." People with FOMO can't not do it, its not optional to them. It's been said throught this thread, since before this horrible feature was implemented, that optional or not, it won't feel optional to many people. Just because its optional to you doesn't mean it is for everyone. CCP - GET RID OF DAILIES. That some people cannot control themselves due to FOMO, should not affect what everyone else does or has access to. Just because some people have problems with alcohol abuse, it does also not mean I cannot buy alcohol for example. And in regards to FOMO if people can't control themselves and are suffering because the feel they have to log into a computer game to get a minor reward, they should probably get some help. I should not be punished for their personal flaws/ shortcommings, as I can handle the daily ( the 6 times I bothered so far to collect it) without being affected what so ever (And I suspect without having proof this is the case for most players). "I'm all for pvp, don't get me wrong. I've ganked in Empire, blobed in low sec. Got T-shirts from every which-where.. But to be forced into a pvp confrontation that I didn't want is wrong ccp." RealFlisker
sero Hita Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 173	Posted - 2016.06.12 09:39:41 - [2509] - Quote Indigo Love-Jones wrote: Hi, I am saying forced because since you have introduced these dailies I feel that I have to do them since you are giving away free SP. I shouldn't be put in a situation where I have to decide to do these dailies at all. You are not forced though. That is 100% on you if you feel like that. Why should the rest of us not be able to do the dailies, because you have some abnormal feelings about this feature? Grow up and take responsibility for your own life. If you want the SP boost do them, if you are feeling forced don't. That is an active choice you can make as an adult to solve your problem without affecting everyone else. "I'm all for pvp, don't get me wrong. I've ganked in Empire, blobed in low sec. Got T-shirts from every which-where.. But to be forced into a pvp confrontation that I didn't want is wrong ccp." RealFlisker
Black Pedro Yammerschooner 2546	Posted - 2016.06.12 09:47:50 - [2510] - Quote sero Hita wrote: Neadayan Drakhon wrote: FOMO is a real thing, it's 9what makes people feel forced to do things like this even when they consiously know they're optional and no matter how many times people like you say "just don't do them." People with FOMO can't not do it, its not optional to them. It's been said throught this thread, since before this horrible feature was implemented, that optional or not, it won't feel optional to many people. Just because its optional to you doesn't mean it is for everyone. CCP - GET RID OF DAILIES. That some people cannot control themselves due to FOMO, should not affect what everyone else does or has access to. Just because some people have problems with alcohol abuse, it does also not mean I cannot buy alcohol for example. And in regards to FOMO if people can't control themselves and are suffering because the feel they have to log into a computer game to get a minor reward, they should probably get some help. I should not be punished for their personal flaws/ shortcommings, as I can handle the daily ( the 6 times I bothered so far to collect it) without being affected what so ever (And I suspect without having proof this is the case for most players). The problem isn't FOMO - that already existed as you always might miss out on a reward or fun or whatever by not playing. It is actually MO - missing out - on a reward when you do play because the incentive to do the daily is so much higher than any alternative. The presence of the SP reward makes almost every other choice other than shooting a rat when you log in suboptimal undermining the idea that Eve is a sandbox. I am a rational adult. CCP rewarding me by increasing some numbers in a London database isn't going to make me change my real-life behavior and log-in when I wasn't planning to do for some daily reward. It was already the case that I don't earn ISK or other forms of progression if I don't log in so a SP bonus isn't going to change that. And given I can just buy SP now, the daily reward isn't special. What is the problem though is that the value of those SP is so high, it makes doing anything else when you do log in other than farming the dailies on all your accounts foolish. You are literally playing the game wrong if you do not drop everything and get those SP and given New Eden is suppose to be a competitive, PvP sandbox, that progress matters. Eve Online is not a theme park MMO or single player experience like a movie or book which you can progress at your own pace. You are objectively weaker than your competitors if you choose to "miss out" on those valuable rewards because you would prefer to do something else. As implemented, these dailies skew player behaviour by rewarding ratting over all the other possible activities in the game. I really hope CCP is keeping a close eye on things and kills this feature if and when it is shown not to work as intended, or at least increase the variety of activities rewarded so that it doesn't have such a dramatic impact on player behaviour and force everyone to engage in, what I bet even CCP would admit, is not the game's most engaging gameplay - shooting harmless rats. Why Do They Gank?
sero Hita Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 173	Posted - 2016.06.12 10:32:08 - [2511] - Quote Black Pedro wrote: What is the problem though is that the value of those SP is so high, it makes doing anything else when you do log in other than farming the dailies on all your accounts foolish. You are literally playing the game wrong if you do not drop everything and get those SP and given New Eden is suppose to be a competitive, PvP sandbox, that progress matters. Eve Online is not a theme park MMO or single player experience like a movie or book which you can progress at your own pace. You are objectively weaker than your competitors if you choose to "miss out" on those valuable rewards because you would prefer to do something else. This would only be true if you define the highest value/hour as the right way of playing. So you are only "literally playing the game wrong if you do not drop everything and get those SP", if you accept the premise that that high value pr hour is the right way to play. I reject your "objective truth", I have another definition of what the goal of EVE online is for me. Before this the thing you should do according to the crowds unless you where playing the game wrong, was incusions. Only ~8% of the population according to one of the CCP Quant posts if I recall correctly. So with your value/hr definition 92% of players where playing it wrong. Black Pedro wrote: New Eden is suppose to be a competitive, PvP sandbox, that progress matters Well I am sure you will now post some general paraphrase from CCP (I don't care what they think this sandbox is about, only what I think it is about tbh.), but I think this is your definition. Futhermore I also don't ackonowledge that this small change has made it so that progress does not matter, unless you have a certain definition of progress. Black Pedro wrote: As implemented, these dailies skew player behaviour by rewarding ratting over all the other possible activities in the game. I really hope CCP is keeping a close eye on things and kills this feature if and when it is shown not to work as intended, or at least increase the variety of activities rewarded so that it doesn't have such a dramatic impact on player behaviour and force everyone to engage in, what I bet even CCP would admit, is not the game's most engaging gameplay - shooting harmless rats. You are exaggerating IMO, as you as often are having the theoretical/ ideological discussion about feature. You are ignoring that this in reality is one rat, done in two min. for most parts of new eden (and those parts like C6 wormholes where you need more effort has pretty high value/hr anyways). The effort is so little, that I think it is ridiculous to talk about how this forces a certain play style on the day to day basis. Ofc. you can argue this, and you probably will but I don't agree. Also not only ratters but also miners in asteroid belts, FW plexing, missions runners and even explorers are kiling NPCs regularly. I think these groups combined represent more players than those who do not pop rats (Which is probably why CCP chose this measure for the first iteration. Most of the groups not interacting with NPCs have easy access to npc rats if they really want. I also have to say, that it is volutarily and I don't care about if you feel forced, that is on you (probably as you define the right way of playing EVE as most Value/time). TLDR: I disagree with some of your assumptions and think it is blown out of proportion on the theoretical level compared to how it means in pracsis on TQ. "I'm all for pvp, don't get me wrong. I've ganked in Empire, blobed in low sec. Got T-shirts from every which-where.. But to be forced into a pvp confrontation that I didn't want is wrong ccp." RealFlisker
Black Pedro Yammerschooner 2546	Posted - 2016.06.12 11:37:29 - [2512] - Quote sero Hita wrote: This would only be true if you define the highest value/hour as the right way of playing. So you are only "literally playing the game wrong if you do not drop everything and get those SP", if you accept the premise that that high value pr hour is the right way to play. I reject your "objective truth", I have another definition of what the goal of EVE online is for me. Fair enough. But Eve was created and is marketed as a competitive, PvP game. If you choose not to compete that is your choice, but you shouldn't minimize the effect this change on shaping the incentive structure to gain power in the sandbox for those that are competing. If you aren't motivated by this feature, why would you oppose its removal or iteration to something that has less effect on those looking to gain advantage to an incentive structure that supports more sandbox activities? sero Hita wrote: Before this the thing you should do according to the crowds unless you where playing the game wrong, was incusions. Only ~8% of the population according to one of the CCP Quant posts if I recall correctly. So with your value/hr definition 92% of players where playing it wrong. In fact, that is one of the major problems with incursions and it is hurting the health of the game. But even incursions don't pay as much as the daily which pays something like 500 ISK/h. I manage to make more than incursions doing other things in the sandbox I find more enjoyable, as do many other people in highsec not to mention nullsec and wormholes, but no one but the richest station traders are making more than the daily reward. sero Hita wrote: Black Pedro wrote: New Eden is suppose to be a competitive, PvP sandbox, that progress matters Well I am sure you will now post some general paraphrase from CCP (I don't care what they think this sandbox is about, only what I think it is about tbh.), but I think this is your definition. Futhermore I also don't ackonowledge that this small change has made it so that progress does not matter, unless you have a certain definition of progress. Ok. Well if you are only going to accept your definition of the world around you, this is going to be a difficult discussion. But yes, CCP has explicitly defined what type of game this is in the New Pilot FAQ they recently wrote for new players: The essential core concept of EVE Online is that it is full time PvP in a sandbox environment. (p.22) I never claimed this change "made it so progress does not matter". I just said it changes the incentive structure of the game to overwhelmingly favour a certain activity over all the others. If incentives or your relative power in comparison to the other players don't motivate you, then this change doesn't affect you. If you are trying to maximize your relative strength in comparison to the other players, this will change how you play the game. I am pretty sure that isn't a very controversial position. I am not sure what part of it you take issue with. sero Hita wrote: You are exaggerating IMO, as you as often are having the theoretical/ ideological discussion about feature. You are ignoring that this in reality is one rat, done in two min. for most parts of new eden (and those parts like C6 wormholes where you need more effort has pretty high value/hr anyways). The effort is so little, that I think it is ridiculous to talk about how this forces a certain play style on the day to day basis. Ofc. you can argue this, and you probably will but I don't agree. I hadn't shot a rat in at least six months before the change. I now shoot at least one per account every day I play the game. I may be in the minority, but it certainly has changed how I play the game. Sure, it is only a few minutes at the beginning of each play session, but it has changed how I play the game and reduced my freedom of how to play. I am not crying the sky is falling, but this change is not without its side effects. Further, I do not think CCP intends for it to change how players play in the sandbox, rather just reward activity, and if so the current implementation is not ideal. I think it is completely reasonable to suggest that CCP should remove the feature if it does not meet their expectations for increasing activity, or if it is working, to add more activities so players are not so heavily incentivized to spend their first minutes of their play session doing something they do not enjoy, and rather do something that they do enjoy doing in New Eden. I am surprised you don't. Why Do They Gank?
sero Hita Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 173	Posted - 2016.06.12 20:53:10 - [2513] - Quote Black Pedro wrote: But even incursions don't pay as much as the daily which pays something like 500 ISK/h. I manage to make more than incursions doing other things in the sandbox I find more enjoyable, as do many other people in highsec not to mention nullsec and wormholes, but no one but the richest station traders are making more than the daily reward. the thing is there is ceiling on how much SP you can get pr month but there is none for how much you can earn with other activities... doing the daily you get max 300,000 sp pr month pr account. The price of an injector is 615,000,000 isk, the extractor is 210,000,000 isk jita prizes right now. I will calculate without taxes, meaning the outcome here is better than it really is on tq. 405,000,000 is the difference between injector and extractor. we can train 3/5 injector pr month. which equals 243,000,000 isk pr month. pr account. You can get that with station trading without too much effort... The isk/hr is not interesting in this case IMO. as it is locked to 300,000 SP pr month no matter what you do, you will not earn more than ~243 mill pr month if you sell the SP. So it might be the highest isk/hour activity but it is pretty crappy in isk/month. So it is not as OP as you claim it is, unless ofc. you want to stick to the misleading isk/hr just so it fits your point. Black Pedro wrote: Fair enough. But Eve was created and is marketed as a competitive, PvP game. If you choose not to compete that is your choice, but you shouldn't minimize the effect this change on shaping the incentive structure to gain power in the sandbox for those that are competing. I do compete though, but the funny thing about EVE is that everyone is competing and no one is really competing directly at the same time. Competing as almost everything is player made. Not competing as you do not really know how you are doing in comparrison to other people. A guy who does the daily and one who does not can both earn isk by doing the same buy order as EVE is big enough that both buy order will be filled, and you have no way to block the other guy. Hence how the "opponent who in your head" is doing does not really affect you directly. I mean I have been playing EVE for 2 years and I am "competing" with 13 years old trillionaires, and still turning a profit. The competion has little to no real observable effect on me as all I care about is the profit, and i just pick something to buy that gives the profit I am happy with, no matter what the trillionaires of EVE are doing (No matter how much they manipulate, there will always be one good that is the best to buy and sell profit wise at the time I trade). My point is that it makes no sense to me, arguing that you need to do it to stay competitive as you are actually in praxis only competing with yourself and your own goals in EVE IMO (you have no score board to know how much the others are earning and they cannot directly target you and stop your income). Black Pedro wrote: If you aren't motivated by this feature, why would you oppose its removal or iteration to something that has less effect on those looking to gain advantage to an incentive structure that supports more sandbox activities? I don't agree with you, that this really is an deincentive to sandbox activities. I have to be honest most people in my lowsec alliance are pretty chill with this, it is only here on the forums I see people who are concerned about that they have to kill a rat. Most people I talk to in game have been positive. I have even been in two fleets the first two days the SP hit, that I would not have been in if I had not logged in to get the SP (I know this anecdotal, but it wil have to do till we can evaluate the effect in half a year or so). Perhaps the effect is likewise for other players all across new eden. Btw. I am not against that the daily is changed to include other activities, I am just annoyed that people want a feature removed (Even if I don't use it that much), just because they are mind ****!ng themselves. It is just too irrational for me. TLDR: I am still of the opinion that nothing is forced on you, and that you have chosen to wear the curse of dailies for 243 mill isk a month pr account. This is on you, and your game would not suffer too much without them I am pretty sure (So if it annoys you it is worth reconsidering if it is worth doing). I am enjoying EVE, competing in FW PvP, station trading, regional trading and PI and I am doing fine even with an non optimal SP training rate at 1800 SP/hr and not selling SP. I don't care as I can more or less fly the ships I want and I play for fun. "I'm all for pvp, don't get me wrong. I've ganked in Empire, blobed in low sec. Got T-shirts from every which-where.. But to be forced into a pvp confrontation that I didn't want is wrong ccp." RealFlisker
Shallanna Yassavi Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 221	Posted - 2016.06.12 21:04:46 - [2514] - Quote They're going to put those shiny capship incursions out in null, so we have to bring bigger ships to them for a bigger reward. They can't nerf incursion payout or they'll get (another) riot. As for this feature, I'm not against it because it plays with my head. I'm against it because it's going to play with other peoples' heads: They're going to see "Oh, I can get XP for killing a rat every 22h!" I convinced a newbie to try the game out, and... let's just say he's been pretty religious about killing the rats at 22h. EVE is his first sandbox that I know of. The trillion-kredit-question is how to get these newbies to creative when they've been running themeparks full of daily grindfests for so long, putting an XP reward on a rat isn't the answer. A signature :o
sero Hita Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 173	Posted - 2016.06.12 21:19:26 - [2515] - Quote Shallanna Yassavi wrote: As for this feature, I'm not against it because it plays with my head. I'm against it because it's going to play with other peoples' heads: They're going to see "Oh, I can get XP for killing a rat every 22h!" I convinced a newbie to try the game out, and... let's just say he's been pretty religious about killing the rats at 22h. EVE is his first sandbox that I know of. The trillion-kredit-question is how to get these newbies to creative when they've been running themeparks full of daily grindfests for so long, putting an XP reward on a rat isn't the answer. This was never about newbros though (see CCP rises OP about the daily), but about increasing the login numbers. It is still too early to say anything about if this has worked or not. So the "but what about the newbros" argument is not really appropriate here (Though the newbros will get more out of the SP than the Vet will). I am convinced that people here are adults who can decide themselves if the daily is worth doing or not, without having their heads played with. "I'm all for pvp, don't get me wrong. I've ganked in Empire, blobed in low sec. Got T-shirts from every which-where.. But to be forced into a pvp confrontation that I didn't want is wrong ccp." RealFlisker
Nevyn Auscent Broke Sauce 3287	Posted - 2016.06.13 02:11:39 - [2516] - Quote sero Hita wrote: This was never about newbros though (see CCP rises OP about the daily), but about increasing the login numbers. It is still too early to say anything about if this has worked or not. No it's not. If it was going to work we would be seeing a significant change on EVE Offline from the date this was added. We haven't, the trend continued with zero interruption from the previous actual patch. Any changes we see now will be as a result of subsequent patches, like Capital balancing, not as a result of daily opportunities. It failed at changing login numbers, it always was going to fail because to kill a rat is only a 2 minute activity which makes pretty much zero difference to concurrent login numbers. (And implementing a longer activity would simply continue to turn EVE into a quest driven theme-park which is the other reason it's bad.)
Black Pedro Yammerschooner 2550	Posted - 2016.06.13 08:54:46 - [2517] - Quote sero Hita wrote: Btw. I am not against that the daily is changed to include other activities, I am just annoyed that people want a feature removed (Even if I don't use it that much), just because they are mind ****!ng themselves. It is just too irrational for me. Even if that feature is not working as intended to increase activity/PCU/engagment or whatever metric CCP will use to assess the feature's success or failure? I am sorry, but it effect on the game not purely psychological. The fact that the daily rewards so much more than anything else makes it mandatory to do if you are choosing what to do in the game based on reward. You apparently don't do view the game in such terms, and while I find your choice to do whatever you do instead of running the daily sub-optimal, I respect your freedom to play for whatever reasons motivate you. That doesn't change the fact however that the incentive structure is such it makes it mandatory for those seeking reward to do them instead of whatever else they were planning to do in the sandbox. CCP: remove the daily (if it isn't working) or make it reward additional activities other than shooting rats, and soon. As it is, the daily is undermining your sandbox game and not rewarding activity as you stated was the intention but rewarding only those that shoot NPCs. This forces those of us that don't regularly shoot NPCs to pursue meaningless and unchallenging daily chores in order to earn your disproportionately good reward. Why Do They Gank?
sero Hita Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 173	Posted - 2016.06.13 09:10:44 - [2518] - Quote Black Pedro wrote: The fact that the daily rewards so much more than anything else makes it mandatory to do if you are choosing what to do in the game based on reward. Only when you calculate it as isk/time used. But as you can't repeat it unlimited, it does indeed not pay so much more than anything else. Your max. is approx 243 mill isk pr month pr account. That is peanuts though, so IMO it is not mandatory "I'm all for pvp, don't get me wrong. I've ganked in Empire, blobed in low sec. Got T-shirts from every which-where.. But to be forced into a pvp confrontation that I didn't want is wrong ccp." RealFlisker
Black Pedro Yammerschooner 2550	Posted - 2016.06.13 09:37:42 - [2519] - Quote sero Hita wrote: Black Pedro wrote: The fact that the daily rewards so much more than anything else makes it mandatory to do if you are choosing what to do in the game based on reward. Only when you calculate it as isk/time used. But as you can't repeat it unlimited, it does indeed not pay so much more than anything else. Your max. is approx 243 mill isk pr month pr account. That is peanuts though, so IMO it is not mandatory Of course it is mandatory. Just because something is limited, doesn't mean you shouldn't exploit it when you can. It may not be game-breaking (like it would if you could infinitely farm SP from single NPC kills), but when rationally given the choice to spend a few minutes earning 10k SP or a few minutes doing something else, you are playing sub-optimally if you choose anything other than to collect your daily reward if you are choosing your activities to maximize isk/time. Given most players trying to accumulate resources/power seek to maximize isk/time while playing, it is mandatory to collect these SP even if you were planning to do something else to earn resources. CCP has decided to award these SP based on a condition (shooting a rat) that is satisfied by many players during the course of normal gameplay, however there are a significant number of activities that are excluded by this single condition (trading, exploration, PI, PvP, some mining, corp management/diplomacy, hauling, etc.) and players who would rather pursue these activities are forced to go shoot rats instead for the first few minutes of their play session to maximize their isk/time. Perhaps we basically agree and are arguing over semantics (what does exactly "forced" or "mandatory" mean?) but you have to admit that the current implementation does not adequately cover all the activities that players can do in the sandbox. Therefore, if players want this reward (and it is so good who wouldn't?), they have to change how they play the game to get it under the current system. This is not very conducive to player freedom or sandbox play nor is it purely rewarding 'activity' in the sandbox but rather is rewarding 'ratting activity' in contrast to the stated intention of the feature. Further, it is not even clear that the feature is working at increasing activity. I am willing to give CCP some time to collect and analyze data, but given the intrusive effect this feature has on some players' game play (like mine), I hope they iterate on this feature sooner rather than later. Why Do They Gank?
Frostys Virpio Yet another corpdot. 2913	Posted - 2016.06.13 13:04:42 - [2520] - Quote Black Pedro wrote: sero Hita wrote: Black Pedro wrote: The fact that the daily rewards so much more than anything else makes it mandatory to do if you are choosing what to do in the game based on reward. Only when you calculate it as isk/time used. But as you can't repeat it unlimited, it does indeed not pay so much more than anything else. Your max. is approx 243 mill isk pr month pr account. That is peanuts though, so IMO it is not mandatory Of course it is mandatory. It only feel mandatory to people because they value SP higher than their own enjoyment of the game. A lot of thing start feeling mandatory to player when they try to min/max everything but your feelings, especially in EVE where it's supposed to be about HTFU, don't really matter.
Khan Wrenth Ore Oppression Prevention and Salvation 609	Posted - 2016.06.13 16:41:34 - [2521] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: It only feel mandatory to people because they value SP higher than their own enjoyment of the game. A lot of thing start feeling mandatory to player when they try to min/max everything but your feelings, especially in EVE where it's supposed to be about HTFU, don't really matter. I quite enjoy flying as logi. I also enjoy flying EWAR. I enjoy flying my marauders. I want to soon enjoy flying command ships. Argue all other points as much as you want, but SP is the gateway to all those things and more. Some of them are more intense SP investments than others, but it's SP all the same. The thing is, in principle, I totally and completely agree with you when you ~~say~~ imply that people should enjoy the game first, worry about SP second. But then you gloss over the fact that to get to the place where you're enjoying the game, you have to invest in SP that unlocks it for you. Enjoy exploring? Awesome! Don't have the SPs to fly a covops and you're stuck in a heron? Eh, that could limit your options. And if you really want to fully dive into the potential of that occupation, you need more SP in certain things. By the way, that's precisely how the SP system in this game is supposed to work, and works wonderfully, and by gosh, they just coincidentally came to SP as the universal reward. What are the chances?? Whatever fun you want to have at this game, you have to really work to understand it, and you need SP to unlock all the tools at your disposal to tackle the task at hand. Want to tell me that you can have fun being a simple t1 tackle for your roaming fleet? That's great, but every SP into ship maneuverability, speed, high speed maneuvering, etc, helps your cause. Which means that yes, you'll want to nab on to every little crumb of SP you can, so you can start having more fun sooner. Because eventually you'll want to fly an interceptor and really fly circles around your target, both literally and figuratively. How long have dailies been out? I've stocked up enough unallocated SP to knock about three days off of one of my skill trains on the way to command ships, if I were so inclined. And dailies haven't even been out that long. As time progresses, and people have enough un-al-SP to knock off a week or two of training, do you really think that people are going to continue ignoring that? No, they'll want in. For only a few minutes a day, you too can shave off weeks of training that unlocks that thing you want to do so you actually can enjoy what this game has to offer. That's a very tantalizing offer. Basically, all that to say, that no matter what you want to do in EvE to have fun, you have to get there somehow. And surrendering a few minutes a day to grab a few more crumbs of SP cheaply is almost too good to pass up, especially in the pursuit of a goal you perceive as fun. Unless, of course, you're at a point where you have access to most everything you wanted anyway. Let's discuss overhauling the way we get intel in EvE.
Black Pedro Yammerschooner 2552	Posted - 2016.06.13 21:12:51 - [2522] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: Black Pedro wrote: sero Hita wrote: Black Pedro wrote: The fact that the daily rewards so much more than anything else makes it mandatory to do if you are choosing what to do in the game based on reward. Only when you calculate it as isk/time used. But as you can't repeat it unlimited, it does indeed not pay so much more than anything else. Your max. is approx 243 mill isk pr month pr account. That is peanuts though, so IMO it is not mandatory Of course it is mandatory. It only feel mandatory to people because they value SP higher than their own enjoyment of the game. A lot of thing start feeling mandatory to player when they try to min/max everything but your feelings, especially in EVE where it's supposed to be about HTFU, don't really matter. No, the rules of the game have been changed so it is effectively mandatory. Balancing the incentive structure this way makes taking those SP the only rational option if you are at all interested in maximizing the use of your time. That is not psychology, or a mind trick, but a logical assessment of the newly changed effort vs. reward structure of this video game. But seriously, are you implying I should "HTFU" because I am raising some concerns about how this feature has changed how I play the game? I mean, CCP Rise himself acknowledges that they intend to expand the daily rewards to encompass a broader set of activities, presumably for the exact concern that I am raising here. It is clear to anyone that these SP are so desirable that earning them are mandatory for anyone who cares about progression at all, and CCP recognizes that players should be given more choices on how to earn that activity bonus. I think the only question is whether that iteration and expansion takes place, or the whole thing is scrapped because it isn't working and is replaced with an alternative attempt to reward player activity. I just hope CCP keeps working on that and doesn't leave this half-developed feature lingering for too long given its unintended (and annoying at least to me) side-effects that are shaping player behaviour. Why Do They Gank?
Jeremiah Saken The Fall of Leviathan 607	Posted - 2016.06.14 07:10:35 - [2523] - Quote Black Pedro wrote: I think the only question is whether that iteration and expansion takes place, or the whole thing is scrapped because it isn't working and is replaced with an alternative attempt to reward player activity. I just hope CCP keeps working on that and doesn't leave this half-developed feature lingering for too long given its unintended (and annoying at least to me) side-effects that are shaping player behaviour. It will take six months at least to measure the effects (perfect would be a year). Why keep bothering to developing feature when they don't know how will it effect the game. Is it mandatory? In game when everything is min-maxed? First event showed that players value SP the most, SP boosters was bullseye. Who like to sit and watch skill is training to level V because it's a prequisite? Can anybody tell me what's the reason to have prequisites? Other that CCP making money on skills injectors while they would have 3 time more players (and more money) if all of them could fly all ships from day 1 only on different levels? I am the 85%
Skia Aumer Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 283	Posted - 2016.06.14 09:43:04 - [2524] - Quote Jeremiah Saken wrote: [quote=Black Pedro ]Can anybody tell me what's the reason to have prequisites? Other that CCP making money on skills injectors while they would have 3 time more players (and more money) if all of them could fly all ships from day 1 only on different levels? I can. EVE is not a spaceship simulator. Some play it without undocking, and the most prominent play it without even logging in. To build this depth requires man-hours. And these man-hours come from players waiting for their skills to complete.
FoxFire Ayderan 223	Posted - 2016.06.14 18:42:50 - [2525] - Quote Black Pedro wrote: Stuff Aren't you the same guys who when some might complain that vets have a big advantage over newbros used to like to say how "anyone can become just as proficient as a vet in a short time if they focus their efforts. " Apparently you guys didn't really believe that, if you're so concerned as a veteran player with needing to change your play-style to get a small daily SP reward.
Frostys Virpio Yet another corpdot. 2917	Posted - 2016.06.14 20:23:44 - [2526] - Quote FoxFire Ayderan wrote: Black Pedro wrote: Stuff Aren't you the same guys who when some might complain that vets have a big advantage over newbros used to like to say how "anyone can become just as proficient as a vet in a short time if they focus their efforts. " Apparently you guys didn't really believe that, if you're so concerned as a veteran player with needing to change your play-style to get a small daily SP reward. Checking people's posting history takes too damn long to burn them on that...
Black Pedro Yammerschooner 2555	Posted - 2016.06.14 21:38:19 - [2527] - Quote FoxFire Ayderan wrote: Black Pedro wrote: Stuff Aren't you the same guys who when some might complain that vets have a big advantage over newbros used to like to say how "anyone can become just as proficient as a vet in a short time if they focus their efforts. " Apparently you guys didn't really believe that, if you're so concerned as a veteran player with needing to change your play-style to get a small daily SP reward. I don't believe I have ever said such a thing. SP as a commodity is relatively meaningless now given that ISK can be traded for SP and vice-versa. The issue is the wealth/power/progression whatever you want to call it awarded by this feature because that 10k SP are worth much more than almost any other activity per unit time making it mandatory for the min/maxer. As a veteran with multiple accounts the SP bonus already benefits me much more than a new player. My only concern is that it is a crude tool that skews sandbox play by incentivizing ratting over everything else. I am just lending my voice (for whatever that is worth on these forums) to keep the pressure on CCP to follow through with their stated intention to broaden the number of activities rewarded. I shouldn't be forced by the current, and admitted by CCP lazy, implementation to rat to prove that I am 'active' in the game. Why Do They Gank?
Geronimo McVain McVain's Minning and Exploration Inc 88	Posted - 2016.06.16 08:27:12 - [2528] - Quote I like the dailys! What I would change is the 22h timer. Make it 1 daily between downtimes with a 4-6h timer. This way you can't grab the daily around downtime and it gives you much more leeway for playing at different times each day. @ Pedro: do you really do the hassle and log in every account and kill a rat each day just for the SP?
Black Pedro Yammerschooner 2556	Posted - 2016.06.16 09:06:08 - [2529] - Quote Geronimo McVain wrote: @ Pedro: do you really do the hassle and log in every account and kill a rat each day just for the SP? No. As I said I am a rational adult and chasing some number in a database isn't going to make me login when I wasn't planning on playing Eve, or stay logged in longer. You already only earn most rewards in this game if you log in, so adding some SP on top isn't going to change the 'play Eve/do something else' equation for me. What it does do though is make me shoot rats for the first few minutes of play time instead for doing what I normally like to do to make an income because the reward is so much better than anything else. Logging in all my accounts and shooting rats pays me around 500M ISK/h (probably more now that I have optimized it and can run several accounts simultaneously) for those few minutes making any other choice not very rational in terms of earning an income. Given that the feature is intended to award activity, not mindless ratting, I encourage CCP to quickly get around to their stated intention and expand the feature. If it truly just rewarded everyone in the background for playing as they normally do I would have little problem with it. But it doesn't. As implemented, the disproportionate reward skews play in the sandbox towards a meaningless and trivial activity making a mockery of the claim that New Eden is a sandbox where you can do what you want and forces me to do something I don't like and that adds almost nothing to the greater shared universe just because it pays so much better than the alternatives. Personally, given that SP can be exchanged for ISK now, the daily part of it doesn't bother me as much as there already exists much incentive to log in daily (or otherwise) to earn rewards which you can spend on SP. But I do see how some people who have played this game for some of the last 13 years are displeased that a long-standing aspect of the game - the time-based progression of character power - has been tossed out the window. They have every right to point out to CCP that this change displeases them and puts players with irregular play time at a disadvantage to their peers, but CCP clearly sees this and is implementing this feature on purpose to disadvantage that play pattern and encourage more frequent logins. I don't see that will be a fight they will win unless this the feature fails at its stated intention of increasing activity in the game. Why Do They Gank?
Geronimo McVain McVain's Minning and Exploration Inc 89	Posted - 2016.06.16 13:56:54 - [2530] - Quote Black Pedro wrote: Personally, given that SP can be exchanged for ISK now, the daily part of it doesn't bother me as much as there already exists much incentive to log in daily (or otherwise) to earn rewards which you can spend on SP. But I do see how some people who have played this game for some of the last 13 years are displeased that a long-standing aspect of the game - the time-based progression of character power - has been tossed out the window. They have every right to point out to CCP that this change displeases them and puts players with irregular play time at a disadvantage to their peers, but CCP clearly sees this and is implementing this feature on purpose to disadvantage that play pattern and encourage more frequent logins. I don't see that will be a fight they will win unless this the feature fails at its stated intention of increasing activity in the game. If you played the game for 13 years you don't need any SP. You are most likely filling up gaps that you didn't really care for. and IMHO dailys will not get away no matter if they work or not. If they do they will upset the people that like them and do you really think the others will thank CCP for it? Yeah, you can make your 48M ISK with dailys, so what? Do you really care if you shoot rats (or players ) for ISK and loot or rats for SP? You get what you want. and if the 10.000SP are 8M ISK you are making around 300M ISK each day you are not loggin in. (6 account ~60.000SP/toon)
Black Pedro Yammerschooner 2557	Posted - 2016.06.16 14:12:56 - [2531] - Quote Geronimo McVain wrote: If you played the game for 13 years you don't need any SP. You are most likely filling up gaps that you didn't really care for. and IMHO dailys will not get away no matter if they work or not. If they do they will upset the people that like them and do you really think the others will thank CCP for it? Yeah, you can make your 48M ISK with dailys, so what? Do you really care if you shoot rats (or players ) for ISK and loot or rats for SP? You get what you want. and if the 10.000SP are 8M ISK you are making around 300M ISK each day you are not loggin in. (6 account ~60.000SP/toon) SP = ISK. 8M ISK for less than 2 minutes work is much more than almost anything else and can be easily multiboxed. Feel free to turn that down, but personally I will cash that in each time I can and be richer than you. If I do that every time I log in will accumulate over time and I will have significantly more wealth than you. That means I can outbid you for useful market items to make me more wealth or spend it on more powerful gear to shoot you in spaceship combat, or I can pay more than you for PLEX if I choose forcing you to not use that system for game time, or grind much longer to do so. You will be weaker and poorer than me and I will be relatively stronger than you in the sandbox because I take this valuable daily reward while you cannot be bothered. Fine with me. Why Do They Gank?
Frostys Virpio Yet another corpdot. 2922	Posted - 2016.06.16 20:39:28 - [2532] - Quote Black Pedro wrote: Geronimo McVain wrote: If you played the game for 13 years you don't need any SP. You are most likely filling up gaps that you didn't really care for. and IMHO dailys will not get away no matter if they work or not. If they do they will upset the people that like them and do you really think the others will thank CCP for it? Yeah, you can make your 48M ISK with dailys, so what? Do you really care if you shoot rats (or players ) for ISK and loot or rats for SP? You get what you want. and if the 10.000SP are 8M ISK you are making around 300M ISK each day you are not loggin in. (6 account ~60.000SP/toon) SP = ISK. 8M ISK for less than 2 minutes work is much more than almost anything else and can be easily multiboxed. Feel free to turn that down, but personally I will cash that in each time I can and be richer than you. If I do that every time I log in will accumulate over time and I will have significantly more wealth than you. That means I can outbid you for useful market items to make me more wealth or spend it on more powerful gear to shoot you in spaceship combat, or I can pay more than you for PLEX if I choose forcing you to not use that system for game time, or grind much longer to do so. You will be weaker and poorer than me and I will be relatively stronger than you in the sandbox because I take this valuable daily reward while you cannot be bothered. Fine with me. You'd get richer running incursion instead of ganking miners man. You need to set your priorities right if getting rich is important enough for you to do something you dislike like a daily.
Black Pedro Yammerschooner 2562	Posted - 2016.06.17 05:38:45 - [2533] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: Black Pedro wrote: Geronimo McVain wrote: If you played the game for 13 years you don't need any SP. You are most likely filling up gaps that you didn't really care for. and IMHO dailys will not get away no matter if they work or not. If they do they will upset the people that like them and do you really think the others will thank CCP for it? Yeah, you can make your 48M ISK with dailys, so what? Do you really care if you shoot rats (or players ) for ISK and loot or rats for SP? You get what you want. and if the 10.000SP are 8M ISK you are making around 300M ISK each day you are not loggin in. (6 account ~60.000SP/toon) SP = ISK. 8M ISK for less than 2 minutes work is much more than almost anything else and can be easily multiboxed. Feel free to turn that down, but personally I will cash that in each time I can and be richer than you. If I do that every time I log in will accumulate over time and I will have significantly more wealth than you. That means I can outbid you for useful market items to make me more wealth or spend it on more powerful gear to shoot you in spaceship combat, or I can pay more than you for PLEX if I choose forcing you to not use that system for game time, or grind much longer to do so. You will be weaker and poorer than me and I will be relatively stronger than you in the sandbox because I take this valuable daily reward while you cannot be bothered. Fine with me. You'd get richer running incursion instead of ganking miners man. You need to set your priorities right if getting rich is important enough for you to do something you dislike like a daily. Friend, I make more money trading than I would in incursions - ganking miners is just public service I provide to try to keep Eve interesting. In fact, I probably make more money trading than the dailies when I hit my stride and the competition is napping. Those resources are what allow me to do what I want in the sandbox and impose my will on other players. I can suicide Taloses if I want into a poor miner's only Exhumer without a second thought because I have accumulated wealth and have an income several-fold what even the best highsec resource gatherer can earn. So you are a fool if you leave that 500M ISK/h on the table because you are too lazy to spend a couple minutes shooting NPCs without risk when you first logon, especially when your opponent (like me) is taking it. But the point is you shouldn't have to shoot NPCs each day without risk in a sandbox game just to keep up with the Joneses. As I have said multiple times over the last pages CCP is well aware of this and is intending to expand the activities they will use to reward your "activity" which is after all the goal of the feature, not to start a jihad against helpless highsec rats or force players to do things in the sandbox that they don't like doing. Good. If this feature has to exist, let's get it into the least disruptive form possible. Eve isn't about shooting helpless rats - it is about interacting with other players (like by trading with them or shooting their ships, including mining ships). Let's not make it such by rewarding that activity above almost all others. Why Do They Gank?
Geronimo McVain McVain's Minning and Exploration Inc 89	Posted - 2016.06.17 07:58:38 - [2534] - Quote Black Pedro wrote: Good. If this feature has to exist, let's get it into the least disruptive form possible. Eve isn't about shooting helpless rats - it is about interacting with other players (like by trading with them or shooting their ships, including mining ships). Let's not make it such by rewarding that activity above almost all others. Right. But where do you get the money for to trade, or the minerals for the modules/ships or the officer modules to trade? Interaction with players it third tier in the foodchain which is based on PVE which is followed by mining (someone has to buy the minerals or pay for the reprocess) and building. Even selling Plex and SP is based on the fact that someone has ISK. The only way I know to create ISK is PVE. The rest is trading with these PVE earned ISK. I really don't care if you make Billions each day! I want to get into good ships faster. If you take a hassle to get ISK that you don't need: do it. I couldn't care less. What I want are the SP to fly a ship that can be a match to you. Then I need the money to put in good modules but if I'm hanging in it by my fingernails it's not only useless but a waste of ISK. So I want to fly it well and THATS why I need the SP. Not to bolster my pocket which money I don't really have a use for. If it gives you some extra money, why are you complaining? You don't really need the extra money, it's nice to have but no needed, but I NEED the SP!
Black Pedro Yammerschooner 2563	Posted - 2016.06.17 08:20:29 - [2535] - Quote Geronimo McVain wrote: I really don't care if you make Billions each day! I want to get into good ships faster. If you take a hassle to get ISK that you don't need: do it. I couldn't care less. What I want are the SP to fly a ship that can be a match to you. Then I need the money to put in good modules but if I'm hanging in it by my fingernails it's not only useless but a waste of ISK. So I want to fly it well and THATS why I need the SP. Not to bolster my pocket which money I don't really have a use for. If it gives you some extra money, why are you complaining? You don't really need the extra money, it's nice to have but no needed, but I NEED the SP! I have no problem with you earning ISK or extra SP via this feature for whatever reason you want. Certainly I am. But have you not been listening? I have a problem with the fact that this feature requires myself and everyone else to shoot a rat every time they log on. Personally, I find that an annoying and meaningless activity. It has no risk or challenge, does not promote player interaction, adds nothing to the greater sandbox, and is mandatory because it awards so much that you are at a disadvantage if you choose not to take it. It was only chosen as the first "activity" condition as many players do it during the course of their regular game play, but of course in a game like Eve many do not. CCP has already proposed the solution - rewarding other activities than just shooting a rat - and all I am saying is CCP should get on that. Don't worry, no one is going to take away your easy ISK/SP. Just don't pretend it isn't mandatory to run the daily when you can in a competitive sandbox game to keep up with the other players. Let's just a figure away to award activity properly to make everyone happy, or at least happier. Why Do They Gank?
Geronimo McVain McVain's Minning and Exploration Inc 89	Posted - 2016.06.17 09:26:15 - [2536] - Quote Black Pedro wrote: But have you not been listening? I have a problem with the fact that this feature requires myself and everyone else to shoot a rat every time they log on. Personally, I find that an annoying and meaningless activity. Sorry, but you have more ISK then I can even dream of and you are REQUIRED to do something? You just want it because you are a greedy bastard but you don't really need it so you are not required to do anything! You want!!! to do it because you want these extra 48M ISK not counting the 300M ISK/day from just being able to log in. IMHO CCP did a very good job if they dangled a carrot that even you, a 13Year player with billions of ISK, can't resist. You are angry about your own greed that forces you to do this boring task and not about CCP. It's your CHOICE to do the daily and you aren't required to do it in any way. You want the carrot so you play frog. I'm as greedy as you are, but I want the SP, not the money. So each of us gets what he wants, where is the problem?
Frostys Virpio Yet another corpdot. 2925	Posted - 2016.06.17 13:41:15 - [2537] - Quote Black Pedro wrote: Geronimo McVain wrote: I really don't care if you make Billions each day! I want to get into good ships faster. If you take a hassle to get ISK that you don't need: do it. I couldn't care less. What I want are the SP to fly a ship that can be a match to you. Then I need the money to put in good modules but if I'm hanging in it by my fingernails it's not only useless but a waste of ISK. So I want to fly it well and THATS why I need the SP. Not to bolster my pocket which money I don't really have a use for. If it gives you some extra money, why are you complaining? You don't really need the extra money, it's nice to have but no needed, but I NEED the SP! I have no problem with you earning ISK or extra SP via this feature for whatever reason you want. Certainly I am. But have you not been listening? I have a problem with the fact that this feature requires myself and everyone else to shoot a rat every time they log on. Personally, I find that an annoying and meaningless activity. It has no risk or challenge, does not promote player interaction, adds nothing to the greater sandbox, and is mandatory because it awards so much that you are at a disadvantage if you choose not to take it. It was only chosen as the first "activity" condition as many players do it during the course of their regular game play, but of course in a game like Eve many do not. CCP has already proposed the solution - rewarding other activities than just shooting a rat - and all I am saying is CCP should get on that. Don't worry, no one is going to take away your easy ISK/SP. Just don't pretend it isn't mandatory to run the daily when you can in a competitive sandbox game to keep up with the other players. Let's just a figure away to award activity properly to make everyone happy, or at least happier. Your definition of mandatory is bad.
Black Pedro Yammerschooner 2563	Posted - 2016.06.17 14:28:16 - [2538] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: Your definition of mandatory is bad. Not at all. I will repeat: It is mandatory to run the daily when you can in a competitive sandbox game to keep up with the other players. You will be relatively less powerful than me if you choose not to, or cannot run the daily while I do and get the SP reward. You will have less SP or resources, and over time that power gap will grow as I can fly better ships or buy better ships if I sell the SP. Since the reward is so high, there is no alternative activity that will award you as much progress for the time and effort invested. Hence it is mandatory to run them to keep up. I would think this concept so simple to be self-evident. You are saying I can somehow keep up with the players running the dailies by doing something else for the same amount of time and effort? If so, please provide details. What are we arguing about again? CCP Rise explicitly said he knows that this reward is desirable ("SP simply has higher demand across more playstyles and player ages and that just makes it a more powerful incentive.") and that they intend to expand the feature (Under "Why so lazy?": "We are absolutely open to expanding the list of activities in the future and imagined that as one of the most likely first iterations."). That is all I am asking so I can do something else to earn the "desirable" award than mindless ratting so I don't fall behind the other players in the competitive sandbox we all play in. Surely that is not unreasonable regardless of how you or I use the word 'mandatory'? Why Do They Gank?
Neadayan Drakhon Heuristic Industrial And Development AddictClan 265	Posted - 2016.06.17 23:41:27 - [2539] - Quote Black Pedro wrote: Frostys Virpio wrote: Your definition of mandatory is bad. Not at all. I will repeat: It is mandatory to run the daily when you can in a competitive sandbox game to keep up with the other players. You will be relatively less powerful than me if you choose not to, or cannot run the daily while I do and get the SP reward. You will have less SP or resources, and over time that power gap will grow as I can fly better ships or buy better ships if I sell the SP. Since the reward is so high, there is no alternative activity that will award you as much progress for the time and effort invested. Hence it is mandatory to run them to keep up. I would think this concept so simple to be self-evident. You are saying I can somehow keep up with the players running the dailies by doing something else for the same amount of time and effort? If so, please provide details. What are we arguing about again? CCP Rise explicitly said he knows that this reward is desirable ("SP simply has higher demand across more playstyles and player ages and that just makes it a more powerful incentive.") and that they intend to expand the feature (Under "Why so lazy?": "We are absolutely open to expanding the list of activities in the future and imagined that as one of the most likely first iterations."). That is all I am asking so I can do something else to earn the "desirable" award than mindless ratting so I don't fall behind the other players in the competitive sandbox we all play in. Surely that is not unreasonable regardless of how you or I use the word 'mandatory'? I agree with your depiction of the current situation; but while you say they should expand it, I say they should get rid of it. However, I think it might be at least slightly more palatable if they did get it expanded (without stacking) to additional activity options, so that it really is just a reward for being active in some way, rather than trying to direct anyone's gameplay. Even in that case, I think I would still be opposed to any form of dailies in EVE, but that might just be me.
Daichi Yamato Xero Security and Technologies 3319	Posted - 2016.06.18 01:23:51 - [2540] - Quote FoxFire Ayderan wrote: Black Pedro wrote: Stuff Aren't you the same guys who when some might complain that vets have a big advantage over newbros used to like to say how "anyone can become just as proficient as a vet in a short time if they focus their efforts. " Apparently you guys didn't really believe that, if you're so concerned as a veteran player with needing to change your play-style to get a small daily SP reward. Its not a small daily SP reward. Its a full 30% training boost. Not for new players, not for old players, but for players who shoot NPC's every 22 hours. What the **** has that got to do with the speed of training to match a vet in a particular ship? If training time for new players is an issue, increase starter skills or give noobs faster training until a certain point like they used to. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided" Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Geronimo McVain McVain's Minning and Exploration Inc 89	Posted - 2016.06.18 09:42:21 - [2541] - Quote Black Pedro wrote: Frostys Virpio wrote: Your definition of mandatory is bad. Not at all. I will repeat: It is mandatory to run the daily when you can in a competitive sandbox game to keep up with the other players. You will be relatively less powerful than me if you choose not to, or cannot run the daily while I do and get the SP reward. You will have less SP or resources, and over time that power gap will grow as I can fly better ships or buy better ships if I sell the SP. Sorry, but how much are you falling behind people, because you are not playing every day? Not 8h/day? At your skillevel and with your resources it's just a joke. You have probably maxed out every skill for your favorite ships so the deciding factor are your skills not the skills or money of your toon.
sero Hita Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 187	Posted - 2016.06.18 11:20:55 - [2542] - Quote Geronimo McVain wrote: Sorry, but how much are you falling behind people, because you are not playing every day? Not 8h/day? At your skillevel and with your resources it's just a joke. You have probably maxed out every skill for your favorite ships so the deciding factor are your skills not the skills or money of your toon. Don't forget that people can have started up to 13-n (n being the years you yourself have played) years earlier than you. Black pedro is so caught up in his "being competative" stick, that he forgets the time and ressource bias present in EVE. Doing the extra daily does not make you competative with the 13 year old trillionaires in EVE anyway. Both you and the older player will still be able to enjoy playing EVE and make a profit, though. This is where Black Pedro is failing, thinking that equalizing min/max every parameter and being the best has practical implications in this game (Does it really matter if you are number 1, 5000 or 150000 most efficient player in EVE, if you can do what you want?). It does not. "I'm all for pvp, don't get me wrong. I've ganked in Empire, blobed in low sec. Got T-shirts from every which-where.. But to be forced into a pvp confrontation that I didn't want is wrong ccp." RealFlisker
Black Pedro Yammerschooner 2566	Posted - 2016.06.18 13:34:34 - [2543] - Quote sero Hita wrote: Don't forget that people can have started up to 13-n (n being the years you yourself have played) years earlier than you. Black pedro is so caught up in his "being competative" stick, that he forgets the time and ressource bias present in EVE. Doing the extra daily does not make you competative with the 13 year old trillionaires in EVE anyway. Both you and the older player will still be able to enjoy playing EVE and make a profit, though. This is where Black Pedro is failing, thinking that equalizing min/max every parameter and being the best has practical implications in this game (Does it really matter if you are number 1, 5000 or 150000 most efficient player in EVE, if you can do what you want?). It does not. The value of those SP is real. The in-game advantage of those SP is real. You are welcome to leave them on the table as you choose, but you cannot deny they are desirable. In fact, CCP Rise explicitly said they choose that reward as it was desirable. Eve is a sandbox and you can play many ways. It's your subscription so do what you want. But you will be less competitive in this game relative to your peers if your choose not to take the daily bonus for whatever reason, and that gap in power will only grow. That is the reality. Sure, you will never likely catch up with those that started many years before you, but you will be relatively weaker and poorer to those players that started when you did who do regularly cash in the daily. That is a fact. But if you aren't trying to compete, then do what you want. I don't care if you never put a skill in your skill queue and spend your time in Eve just visiting every system in your rookie ship and just chatting with the locals. But if we go head-to-head in a PvP contest, I will have an advantage for collecting those SP while you were too lazy to be bothered. Perhaps that advantage won't make a difference, but it very well could, which is the motivation CCP is relying on to get people to log in. I still don't see what you two are arguing with me for. All I have said is that I would like there to be additional criteria to earn your daily activity bonus other than ratting, something that CCP Rise says they intend to do. If you would like to present a case why they should not expand the feature and just stick with the shoot-a-single-NPC activity criteria, I am all ears. Otherwise, I don't think this discussion of the ethereal concept of what motivates players is going to be very productive given we all all play for many different combinations of reasons. Do what you want though. I'll be cashing in that daily bonus everytime I log in and be stronger than you for it. Why Do They Gank?
sero Hita Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 187	Posted - 2016.06.18 20:59:13 - [2544] - Quote Black Pedro wrote: But if you aren't trying to compete, then do what you want. I don't care if you never put a skill in your skill queue and spend your time in Eve just visiting every system in your rookie ship and just chatting with the locals. But if we go head-to-head in a PvP contest, I will have an advantage for collecting those SP while you were too lazy to be bothered. Perhaps that advantage won't make a difference, but it very well could, which is the motivation CCP is relying on to get people to log in. Again with the assumptions, you will only have an advantage (a super small one) if we all started with the same amount of SPs, trained with the same rate, we have same player skills, you collect the bonus i do not and we fly the same hulls, with the same fittings and implants. If this is not the case your SP advantage means nothing. And when have you had a fight like that on TQ? Someone always has another advantage that overules the the small SP bonus (if brawl scrams kite it is game over almost regardless of SP) . This is what I try to open that closed mind of yours to. Black Pedro wrote: I still don't see what you two are arguing with me for. All I have said is that I would like there to be additional criteria to earn your daily activity bonus other than ratting, something that CCP Rise says they intend to do. If you would like to present a case why they should not expand the feature and just stick with the shoot-a-single-NPC activity criteria, I am all ears. Otherwise, I don't think this discussion of the ethereal concept of what motivates players is going to be very productive given we all all play for many different combinations of reasons. Well we have established that I agree with the point of more criteria, but that is not all you have said though. What leads to us arguing with you, is that you keep insisting that this is such a big advantage to do the dailies that is it is mandatory, just repeating repeating that statement. And then you do not consider that in the complex background of tranquility even if you have an advantage in SP you can still get you killed by someone with less SP but who has better playerskills, more ISK does not mean you can "win" in trading as it is depending on who is 0.01 isking when someone is selling(If you ahve a big market like Jita). As long as you keep making your simpleminded comments who are not put into context of the complexity of TQ, I would also keep discussing it. the thing is more activities should be included to the dailies, and I am sure they will be. But people are just complaining to much about the effect of the dailies IMO. Black Pedro wrote: Do what you want though. I'll be cashing in that daily bonus everytime I log in and be stronger than you for it. Lol, such narrowmindedness. If I have more SP than you, fly a ship that counter yours or have better player skills will you still be stronger than me? that is the thing TQ is already unbalanced, so don't do something you don't like for just 20% more SP (and then complain about how you feel forced into doing it). Even if you don't hunt the dailies you will often run into someone who is weaker than you anyway or oppotunities to earn ISK anyway. "I'm all for pvp, don't get me wrong. I've ganked in Empire, blobed in low sec. Got T-shirts from every which-where.. But to be forced into a pvp confrontation that I didn't want is wrong ccp." RealFlisker
Black Pedro Yammerschooner 2567	Posted - 2016.06.20 06:44:15 - [2545] - Quote sero Hita wrote: Lol, such narrowmindedness. If I have more SP than you, fly a ship that counter yours or have better player skills will you still be stronger than me? that is the thing TQ is already unbalanced, so don't do something you don't like for just 20% more SP (and then complain about how you feel forced into doing it). Even if you don't hunt the dailies you will often run into someone who is weaker than you anyway or oppotunities to earn ISK anyway. Narrowmindness? Lol. SP and assets provide a very real and tangible advantage in this game. Of course there are not the sole determinant of any outcome. Player skill, strategic and tactical decisions and your allies have a massive impact on any PvP encounter as it should be for an interesting video game. But the whole point of a persistent world MMO is that your character progression and assets impact on the game and that is indeed the case for Eve, especially for solo and small gang PvP encounters, or industrial or market PvP where it is not who has the biggest blob wins. So, given two players that start at the same time and play a similar amount, the one that collects the free SP will have a significant advantage over the other player that doesn't. That is a fact. This is a reality of a single-universe competitive game. The industrialist who trains those science skills first will have a competitive advantage researching T2 blueprints before their competitors and will make more ISK. The trader will have more market orders faster and built their capital faster. The PvPer will eek out those final skills before their opponents. Sure you can throw up your hands and say there will always be someone better than you, or you might be outnumbered but that doesn't mean you still won't be relatively better off than your competitors over time if you collect these easy SP and they don't. If you can't see that, you really don't get what kind of game you are playing. That's fine, understanding what type of game Eve Online isn't a prerequisite to play as evidence by large number of complete clueless posts that appear on these forums. Again, do what you want. That's the great thing about Eve: you can play anyway you choose, including completely sub-optimally. Why Do They Gank?
Geronimo McVain McVain's Minning and Exploration Inc 90	Posted - 2016.06.20 09:41:47 - [2546] - Quote You are right, but it's just untill some point where both have the same skillset for the activity. Maybe one earlier then the other but in the end both have the same skillset. The other one may have more opportunities but for the frig fight it doesn't matter if he can research T2 modules or not. And I doubt that many people will fit officer modules on PvP frigs. With your argumentation PvP is a waste of resources because you are loosing money. But I don't understand why you are complaining. Dailies give you more money then any other activity and you are still complaining about it. Is station trading more thrilling? Hauling? Mission running? I really doubt that you will ever get the dailys for "gank a miner" or "shoot a transport at Jita".
Black Pedro Yammerschooner 2567	Posted - 2016.06.20 10:51:12 - [2547] - Quote Geronimo McVain wrote: But I don't understand why you are complaining. Dailies give you more money then any other activity and you are still complaining about it. Is station trading more thrilling? Hauling? Mission running? I really doubt that you will ever get the dailys for "gank a miner" or "shoot a transport at Jita". Shooting a single rat is pointless busy work. It was not interesting the first time, and will be down-right tedious the 1000th time. Really, if CCP wants to reward activity in a sandbox game, they should just reward people for logging in. I mean, updating the skill queue they claim this is meant to replace required not much more than that. But if CCP want something more concrete, I'll take anything that actually involves playing Eve: updating some market orders, building something, running an exploration site, shooting another player, scanning something down, mining some gas, taking a gate or wormhole, earning LP. Ideally I should earn the reward without changing my game play given the feature is intended only to get me to log-in daily, not force me to rat. Once I log-in I should retain the freedom to play Eve the way I choose as befits a sandbox game. I am asking CCP to follow through on what CCP Rise stated they already intend to do. I fully realize they will still need time to collect and analyze the data, but this feature has significantly changed the incentive structure of the game and made the first few minutes of my game session less enjoyable. However, providing more choice in how to earn that reward will help alleviate the tedium and should lessen the effect of this feature on skewing sandbox play. So how 'bout it CCP Rise? Any chance of an update on how the feature is working or at least some time frame on when you will evaluate the success of the feature and announce further iterations? Why Do They Gank?
Skia Aumer Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 289	Posted - 2016.06.20 11:30:38 - [2548] - Quote Black Pedro wrote: So how 'bout it CCP Rise? Any chance of an update on how the feature is working or at least some time frame on when you will evaluate the success of the feature and announce further iterations? I'd like to hear on that too. Dailies should be removed from EVE, and we eager to know when it will happen.
Geronimo McVain McVain's Minning and Exploration Inc 92	Posted - 2016.06.20 13:48:54 - [2549] - Quote You need some activity that even a 5min old char can do so Shooting a rat is a very good choice. It would be nice to have all the activities counting for the dailies but then I want a option to opt out toons. I don't want to be forced to start my toon in a certain succession because I want the SP on a certain toon and not on another alt just by accident. The question is: how much energy will CCP put into dailies to include other activities.
Pelea Ming Space Dandies 336	Posted - 2016.06.22 11:14:32 - [2550] - Quote Personally, I think it would be more useful if the timer of the 'daily' events were based on downtime. My reasoning thus is simple... if I wake up and do my daily in the middle of the night, as it is now, I have to then continue waking up in the middle of the night to run them or basically miss a day to reset it to an earlier time of the day again. Whereas, if it's keyed off of downtime, then anytime on any day I can run it once, and not risk missing a day unless something comes up that I just can't make logging in that day.
Circumstantial Evidence 334	Posted - 2016.06.23 21:23:40 - [2551] - Quote This thread has essentially come to a close, with an announcement and new thread here: [118.6] Recurring Opportunity removal Stats: Top Ten most prolific: Lugh Crow-Slave 239 (9,4%) Frostys Virpio 100 (3,9%) Lan Wang 52 (2,0%) Rain6639 50 (2,0%) Ria Nieyli 47 (1,8%) Jeremiah Saken 43 (1,7%) Indahmawar Fazmarai 40 (1,6%) Erihn Sabrovich 39 (1,5%) Axhind 36 (1,4%) Tippia 32 (1,3%) Longest post: Tippia
Neadayan Drakhon Heuristic Industrial And Development AddictClan 276	Posted - 2016.06.23 21:49:38 - [2552] - Quote Circumstantial Evidence wrote: This thread has essentially come to a close, with an announcement and new thread here: [118.6] Recurring Opportunity removal Stats: Top Ten most prolific: Lugh Crow-Slave 239 (9,4%) Frostys Virpio 100 (3,9%) Lan Wang 52 (2,0%) Rain6639 50 (2,0%) Ria Nieyli 47 (1,8%) Jeremiah Saken 43 (1,7%) Indahmawar Fazmarai 40 (1,6%) Erihn Sabrovich 39 (1,5%) Axhind 36 (1,4%) Tippia 32 (1,3%) Longest post: Tippia dangit, I was 11th most prolific I'll have to try harder next time
Jagati Khan81 Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State 0	Posted - 2016.06.28 12:07:00 - [2553] - Quote Recurring SP mission was a good idea bring it back and make it a little harder with some variations. P.s. Just back from a 4 year break just for the record
Bobman Smith Justified Chaos Spaceship Bebop 1	Posted - 2016.06.30 01:09:18 - [2554] - Quote Just my 2 cents on the new daily Scope Quests: SP Bonuses: The daily SP thing was a little simple and I can see how it wont really meet the goals of bringing people online more often. However I kinda like the idea of having a means to work for and add SP to my toons. The injector system actually takes SP out of the game permanently but still a nice feature to trade with. But it does leave the game in an SP deflationary situation. So I hope that as small as the relive gains are, say 10 to 15% more SP over time bonus over the skill que for active daily players, we have a means to introduce some SP into the game that requires activity. More Low Sec content: Make the Scope quests only available in LOW SEC and WH. Low sec needs a little connect love and I think the Scope quests will add that extra little bit of incentive for people to do things in low sec other then just PVP. Its still low sec, and its still subject to the risks of mining/ratting quests were getting out of the Scope Quests. The PVPers will rejoice as their is more targets. The rewards: SP. Those points we earn can add up into buying injectors that can be used to improve our toons or be sold into the markets for the high/null residence. Does not need to be an ISK faucet, just to supplement the incentives to live in LOW Sec and do things other then FW or strait up PVP. T3 Destroyers Hulls should cost more. T3 immune to remote reps. Remove Insurance from game. Ban Frigate Pirate Ships from Novice FW Plexs. Clones should be like cloths, and can be stored in 1 station and changed at will with timers.
Koldais New Eden Cultural Exchange Advent of Fate 0	Posted - 2016.07.01 19:53:42 - [2555] - Quote Took out the 10,000SP daily and replaced it with garbage only people without a job, family or life can do? This is the only way I can express my disgust to CPP http://s369.photobucket.com/user/koldfusion77/media/Buycot_CCP.jpg.html
Astrid Farnsworth Broke and Famous 4	Posted - 2016.07.01 23:44:36 - [2556] - Quote Koldais wrote: Took out the 10,000SP daily and replaced it with garbage only people without a job, family or life can do? This is the only way I can express my disgust to CPP http://s369.photobucket.com/user/koldfusion77/media/Buycot_CCP.jpg.html But its fine, no one force you to play the game you dont like. Have a nice AWAY frim eve time, and see you.
KaarBaak Squirrel Team 375	Posted - 2016.07.05 22:33:58 - [2557] - Quote Koldais wrote: Took out the 10,000SP daily and replaced it with garbage only people without a job, family or life can do? This is the only way I can express my disgust to CPP http://s369.photobucket.com/user/koldfusion77/media/Buycot_CCP.jpg.html What...um....what did you do say...2 months ago...before the SP misfire? You could just do that? KB Dum Spiro Spero Not getting SP for not killing a rat is like not getting ore for not mining an asteroid.
DrysonBennington Eagle's Talon's 284	Posted - 2016.07.14 14:34:25 - [2558] - Quote Recurring Opportunities is a good thing. But I would suggest not running them all of the time or the Pilot's will grow weary of them and they will simply take of server and bandwidth processes. I suggest running them for a month at a time change the events to include different NPC's and then offer the event every three to four months.
DrysonBennington Eagle's Talon's 284	Posted - 2016.07.14 14:36:24 - [2559] - Quote KaarBaak wrote: Koldais wrote: Took out the 10,000SP daily and replaced it with garbage only people without a job, family or life can do? This is the only way I can express my disgust to CPP http://s369.photobucket.com/user/koldfusion77/media/Buycot_CCP.jpg.html What...um....what did you do say...2 months ago...before the SP misfire? You could just do that? KB Life isn't catered to those with families or a life as you call it. You cater your existence to your own needs so stop blaming others for your inadequacies.
Big Z1776 256th Shadow Wing Phantom-Recon 0	Posted - 2016.07.15 06:24:28 - [2560] - Quote As a 2 Million SP guy I can say that I really liked having the daily, especially with the skills I need to get into my Corp's doctrines, which I can't realistically fly without several weeks of being dead weight. Thankfully we have a fit master and a few really experienced pilots who've been tutoring me, but being able to knock out the I and II on a skill when they say "Train that" is huge for me. To put it in perspective I have a true story of the impact the dailies could have for me last week. And I'm sure this could apply in other variants to other equally new guys and gals out there. We were going to be going on a stealth bomber roam, kinda on-the-spur of the moment, but I was really looking forward to it, I'd been doing research, watching Bomber Bay vids, and practicing on Test Server with some Injectors my Corp-mates gave me by extracting their own useless SP from alts. I was however six hours short on Cloaking IV, I could've gotten my daily, applied it, and probably have gone with them, but no daily, so I spent the night waiting between rocks being depleted. It sucked, and I'm sure many others have had that happen since the dailies have gone and before Eve had them. So just from the POV of a new guy I can say that the dailies were huge, and it made me get on each day, that's how I met my current corp actually, saw one ratting doing my daily, saw he was in a corp asked about it and now I'm one of them. It's not just the SP, it's really the experience for guys like me that it helps, and that's why I started playing.
Lady Rift What Shall We Call It 261	Posted - 2016.07.18 02:56:05 - [2561] - Quote Big Z1776 wrote: As a 2 Million SP guy I can say that I really liked having the daily, especially with the skills I need to get into my Corp's doctrines, which I can't realistically fly without several weeks of being dead weight. Thankfully we have a fit master and a few really experienced pilots who've been tutoring me, but being able to knock out the I and II on a skill when they say "Train that" is huge for me. To put it in perspective I have a true story of the impact the dailies could have for me last week. And I'm sure this could apply in other variants to other equally new guys and gals out there. We were going to be going on a stealth bomber roam, kinda on-the-spur of the moment, but I was really looking forward to it, I'd been doing research, watching Bomber Bay vids, and practicing on Test Server with some Injectors my Corp-mates gave me by extracting their own useless SP from alts. I was however six hours short on Cloaking IV, I could've gotten my daily, applied it, and probably have gone with them, but no daily, so I spent the night waiting between rocks being depleted. It sucked, and I'm sure many others have had that happen since the dailies have gone and before Eve had them. So just from the POV of a new guy I can say that the dailies were huge, and it made me get on each day, that's how I met my current corp actually, saw one ratting doing my daily, saw he was in a corp asked about it and now I'm one of them. It's not just the SP, it's really the experience for guys like me that it helps, and that's why I started playing. 6 hours at 2200 sp/hr or even 2000 sp/hr (i dont know how you are map'ed and what implants) wouldn't of been covered by your dailly and you still would of missed the roam. I just did the math 1666 sp/hr is what you would have to be earning so that the daily is worth 6 hours of training, which i believe would only be possible if no implants and 100% off map but I'm not sure on that one.
Lady Rift What Shall We Call It 261	Posted - 2016.07.18 02:58:58 - [2562] - Quote Koldais wrote: Took out the 10,000SP daily and replaced it with garbage only people without a job, family or life can do? This is the only way I can express my disgust to CPP http://s369.photobucket.com/user/koldfusion77/media/Buycot_CCP.jpg.html you should always cancel reoccurring subscriptions so that you don't forget about them and have them renew. my entire eve carrier has many many cancelled and ccp even has it as an option on there survey of why you canceled.
Nosum Hseebnrido Interregnum. 6	Posted - 2016.07.19 23:23:50 - [2563] - Quote CCP Rise wrote: Okay, let's see if I can provide some context for our decision to add daily opportunities to eve and maybe answer some of your bigger questions. Why Dailies? (...) Why Skillpoints? There's been a lot of feedback here that this kind of feature would be acceptable if the rewards were more monetary, either LP or ISK or something similar. There's a few reasons that doesn't really work and we feel pulled towards SP. I think the biggest one is that many people simply won't be motivated by LP or ISK, especially in the amounts we would be restricted to giving. SP simply has higher demand across more playstyles and player ages and that just makes it a more powerful incentive. Second big reason that we actually tried designs using item and ISK rewards and it quickly creates a lot of economic imbalances. Any time we are giving something away without much activity cost we are heavily sabotaging someone's gameplay. Whether it's because of devaluing LP, causing major inflation, or crashing item markets, it's all bad for you guys so we would rather avoid it. Why so lazy? Lots of feedback about the feature having such a minimalist implementation. First, let me clear up some confusion by saying that this feature has no relationship with the 'Tribute' system that was described last year at EVE Vegas. That feature has actually gone down a path more focused on goal setting and long term engagement than daily activity and so the daily part was broken off and given to our team separately. With that in mind, we are trying to find the right mix of activity and accessibility. We want you to be able to collect this reward during a lunch break or a 10 minute period where your kids are in timeout but also want to make sure there's some real gameplay associated with it. We think getting to a belt or gate for an NPC is about the right mix and that's why we've landed with this. That said, we've also deliberately tried to keep it simple so that we can deploy fast and adjust based on how it gets used. We are absolutely open to expanding the list of activities in the future and imagined that as one of the most likely first iterations. Small sidenote on activities: many of you mentioned PVP, remember that this is always problematic because the most effective way to PVP for rewards is just kill your own alt, which isn't very fun or interesting. New players Seeing a lot of talk about this feature in the context of new players and I can just say that this is not a new player targeted feature. We hope it's good for new players as well but for the feature to be successful it needs to be relevant to everyone. Wow CCP And finally the traditional MMO comparisons. While I found most of these comments to be the most entertaining, it's pretty absurd to think that any feature which can be found in a traditional MMO appearing in EVE means we are headed down the road to battlegrounds and dragon killing. If you look at Citadel feature list you should not have any concerns about our commitment to the EVE sandbox and the hardcore nature of our game. Hope some of this helps. We are taking your feedback seriously and if we don't make any changes before release we will absolutely be following up shortly after release with changes based on feedback and behavior. I do not know status of this feature, but I would like to let you know that I do not like it, and I do not want it do be deploy in this form. I'm playing this game since may 2006 - dark times when we did not had any skill queue at all, and in order to start skilling main ship we had to have learning skills. When I travel back in time with my memories I do not recall that reason why I was login more actively then today was obstacles like skill queue. Playing this game was giving me fun, and that's it. I remember that the more difficile and challenging it was, the bigger impact it had on my life, and it was attracting me even more. "We want you to be able to collect this reward during a lunch break or a 10 minute period where your kids are in timeout but also want to make sure there's some real gameplay associated with it. We think getting to a belt or gate for an NPC is about the right mix and that's why we've landed with this. " With all respect. There is no real gameplay in loging in to game just to kill one rat on belt. It is a torment like loging in to DuctTape514 every day, just to collect extra sp for doing nothing. YES you will increase daily login with this feature, but in long term it will be harmful for game, and numbers will drop. Please do not make EVE some trash MMO. If you really, really want to reward somehow active players(the ones that login for longer than 30m. outofstation), and you want to do it with SP. I think you should implement system that generates 0 SP to the game at first, have flat limitation on how mych SP you can get per day, it has to be challenging, and it need to involve social aspects(player that have ingame friends have more reasons to play game with them, then soloplayer). Now let's look on how T3 Cruiser system works. In order to fly T3 C you need to skill up 5 skills, but if you die with T3 Cruiser you are losing SP from that skills permanently - would it not be wonderful if some part of those skillpoints that are being deleted would be a reward for that kill, and they would go to the same branch. I think that if you want to implement daily changes it has to take a bit more then 10 min. time frame for player, and SP can not come form nowhere - it is again everything this company build so far. That is why I consider your proposal as some unfunny joke. http://eveboard.com/pilot/Nosum_Hseebnrido
Neadayan Drakhon Heuristic Industrial And Development AddictClan 311	Posted - 2016.07.25 22:16:07 - [2564] - Quote Nosum Hseebnrido wrote: I do not know status of this feature Already come and gone, and good riddence
Tara Eves Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 37	Posted - 2016.07.29 17:44:17 - [2565] - Quote Captain Semper wrote: .....For now the only way to increase SP in the EVE is training... Or injectors.

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