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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 5 post(s) |
Mara Tessidar
Hole Violence Goonswarm Federation
1172
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Posted - 2016.04.12 17:41:01 -
[1321] - Quote
Mining mechanics have remained unchanged since ~2002 when they were first prototyped. Belt ratting hasn't received an overhaul since it was nuked into the ground. Anomalies come in a handful of worthwhile varieties that have to be run 100,000,000,000 times and are completely repetitive. The only interesting PvE is the kind that takes place where other players can shoot at you, and it's not interesting because of the actual game content.
I could go on, but I think you're starting to get the point about this game being boring. |
Niko Lorenzio
United Eve Directorate
607
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Posted - 2016.04.12 17:45:42 -
[1322] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:Okay, let's see if I can provide some context for our decision to add daily opportunities to eve and maybe answer some of your bigger questions. .... .
Thanks for an actual reply detailing the thinking behind the feature. I must say that this kind of communication is vital for the future of the game.
First, I would like to point out a small contradiction. You say that you're doing this to create activity but then you mention that you want it double on lunch breaks, which obviously can't really result in much activity. I'm going to assume those are separate so that those that don't want to be left out can do it in a short amount of time even if they can't commit to any emergent activity from logging in.
Good call on making it once per account.
I still have a huge problem with specific activity rewarding SP. I would suggest an alternate activity all playstyles and players can take part in. The discovery feature is a great alternative as anyone can participate regardless of location or conditions in space around them that would prevent them from undocking. If the motivation is truly to get players to login, they shouldn't have to undock or be limited to certain activities for SP. Rewards in limited space activities would be fine for ISK, but not SP. I get that being in space might lead to more things happening but SP reward is too punishing in a game which is a lot more than just flying in space
Last note on WOW in space. If you truly believe that Eve is different just because of its space sci fi setting, you're very mistaken. At its core it's about the values and principles that separate it from other games. Things like grind free progression, being in a sandbox where you can do anything you want without being forced into certain activities and not being manipilated by cheap tactics like rats in a cage. We don't appreciate Skinners box mechanics, being forced to do stuff a certain way at a certain time and general use of sticks and carrots to manipilated the playerbase.
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Amarisen Gream
Divine Demise Apocalypse Now.
248
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Posted - 2016.04.12 17:46:09 -
[1323] - Quote
On my lunch break -
And it seems that if I ever make it to fanfest and get smashed (don't drink but I am sure I can over load on some other liquid) I have a reason to pull out my man parts and pee on some dev shoes.
66 pages plus of feedback and i still don't feel comfortable with this idea, even though I have purposes ideas like this before.
I have already posted feed back before -
As it stands right now, CCP Snorlax seems to be the only one (and his team) listening to player feed back.
"The Lord loosed upon them his fierce anger
All of his fury and rage.
He dispatched against them a band of Avenging Angels"
- The Scriptures, Book II, Apocalypse 10:1
DIDE- is open to new members
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Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
2740
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Posted - 2016.04.12 17:56:45 -
[1324] - Quote
Amarisen Gream wrote:
As it stands right now, CCP Snorlax seems to be the only one (and his team) listening to player feed back.
Listening to feedback does not mean implementing anything the player base will ask/request. As long as you miss that point, you will always think they don't listen. |
Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
1121
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Posted - 2016.04.12 18:01:47 -
[1325] - Quote
Erihn Sabrovich wrote:The problem is, that only players DO CREATE content...
/Fixed
It's all in your head. Or it isn't. If it isn't, it's a waste of time, no matter what.
Remove insurance.
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Axhind
Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation
127
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Posted - 2016.04.12 18:04:17 -
[1326] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:Amarisen Gream wrote:
As it stands right now, CCP Snorlax seems to be the only one (and his team) listening to player feed back.
Listening to feedback does not mean implementing anything the player base will ask/request. As long as you miss that point, you will always think they don't listen.
Considering that player numbers have clearly shown how well CCPs idea of EVE as small gang fighting simulation is going it might be time to actually listen to player feedback. There are competent people on all sides who love this game and give feedback not so that their side will benefit but because they want EVE to stay strong so that we have somewhere to hang out and share, what is becoming less and less, a unique game with others. |
Vasiliy Stalin
Academy Diesel Corporation Intercom.
0
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Posted - 2016.04.12 18:06:59 -
[1327] - Quote
ccp rise, you're wrong.
nowadays we've got learning as some thing across the game, we don't have an another way to get some skillpoints, then to learn. even skill points from skill injectors were learned some day.
so, I won't more play this game, sorry. there was a good idea to return in this summer to try Citadels and new capitals, but.. I just don't want. it'll be better if you changed the most bored things in Eve instead of skillpoints from the air, planetary interaction, epic arcs, or npc's for example. |
Circumstantial Evidence
292
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Posted - 2016.04.12 18:23:02 -
[1328] - Quote
Thank you for the small change reducing the grind some players may feel compelled toward, but the feature is still incomplete in that it favors only one playstyle.
Tippia suggested to simply reward the act of logging in. Some players would do nothing for 10 minutes, but some others won't be able to help themselves... "OK I'm here, may as well do X..."
Feature is still a manipulative grab at some small percent activity increase, when so much more is being accomplished right now with regular improvements to the game that bring back long-term players to try out the changes. Events like Frostline / Guristas get players in space, and the loot offers trading and building opportunities in addition to shooting rats. Just keep those events coming, and I won't feel manipulated :) On the cusp of the Citadel expansion, which is driving a lot of player excitement about new things to do and build and explode, this feature... timing is bad.
Feature still continues the devaluation of skill points by making them a commodity CCP will start giving out in this - and quite probably future promotions. 2016 will be remembered as the year the SP floodgates were opened, and a unique aspect of EVE character progression was changed.
Some interesting alternative rewards I've seen:
- "Project Discovery" type of LP, offering unique rewards redeemable at 3/6/12 months
- CONCORD LP
- Aurum
- Ability to drain allocated SP into the unallocated pool
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Tavari Minrathos
Honey Badgers R US
16
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Posted - 2016.04.12 18:34:23 -
[1329] - Quote
I have questions about implementation.
1 Character per account per day.
First, can it just reset with daily downtime as opposed to 22 hours? Less tracking on the player side. While there is some benefit if you can log on 24/7 to min/max the 22 hour thing, I would prefer it to just be once per daily server reset.
2) How will this work for fleets? Everyone how damages? Last hit? Won't work in fleet? How will nondamaging roles work (logi/ewar)?
I don't think you want to discourage fleeting, but I do think you want everyone out in a ship so killing blow makes the most sense to me. That way for a main/alt combo in space, the main can do most of the damage and the scanning/logi alt can get final blow with drones. Implications get weird if everyone in fleet gets credit for 1 NPC kill (incursions, micro me and my alts fleets in null for 1 kill)
Only sort of related, but would you (CCP) consider reducing the amount of sites/rats in .8 or higher and increasing them in .7-.5 to increase risk ever so slightly in HiSec? |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
3821
|
Posted - 2016.04.12 19:01:24 -
[1330] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:Another small update:
Thanks to feedback we see that it would improve the experience quite a lot minimize the amount of characters available for this reward so we are going to limit the reward to the first character completing the daily task on each account.
Thanks Thanks!
May I also suggest that if you expand this to other activities, like hacking a can, mining a roid, and so on, you put an OR between those activities. That is, I can just do one of them, whichever one I happen to want to do, and get the reward.
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Shallanna Yassavi
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
120
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Posted - 2016.04.12 19:12:31 -
[1331] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:Another small update:
Thanks to feedback we see that it would improve the experience quite a lot minimize the amount of characters available for this reward so we are going to limit the reward to the first character completing the daily task on each account.
Thanks It's still a bad joke.
It's still the game telling some of us what to do before we start doing before we go do what we really wanted to do, and the game telling us we have to do it every 22 hours or so.
A signature :o
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Masao Kurata
Many Much Mechanics
475
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Posted - 2016.04.12 19:14:31 -
[1332] - Quote
So you're set on this and nothing's going to change your mind?
Well, fortunately you have statistics that will show you exactly how bad this is a couple of months after introduction, when daily logins rise (obviously) but subscriptions and pvp activity drop and people cite burn out from dailies as the reason they quit. |
Circumstantial Evidence
293
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Posted - 2016.04.12 19:15:33 -
[1333] - Quote
@ Vincent Athena:CCP Rise in post #14 wrote:"how about a reward for either killing an NPC, hacking a Data/Relic thingy or popping a rock?" - Likely one of the first ways we would look to expand in a follow-up release.
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Pryce Caesar
Evil Young Flesh
61
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Posted - 2016.04.12 19:26:18 -
[1334] - Quote
Shallanna Yassavi wrote:CCP Rise wrote:Another small update:
Thanks to feedback we see that it would improve the experience quite a lot minimize the amount of characters available for this reward so we are going to limit the reward to the first character completing the daily task on each account.
Thanks It's still a bad joke. It's still the game telling some of us what to do before we start doing before we go do what we really wanted to do, and the game telling us we have to do it every 22 hours or so.
The Dailies are bonuses; they are suggestions. You can choose to not do them if you want to. Just because the game tells you it can be done, does not make it obligatory. If you want the extra SP, go for it. If you don't need the extra SP, you can leave them be.
Just don't try to ruin it for everyone because it is a mechanic that you do not like on a personal level. For us newer players, this is a blessing. No longer will our skill training be bound to the whims of the set skill queue training times; we can buff up and quicken our training with skill points earned through completion of dailies. |
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
2740
|
Posted - 2016.04.12 19:30:18 -
[1335] - Quote
Masao Kurata wrote:So you're set on this and nothing's going to change your mind?
Well, fortunately you have statistics that will show you exactly how bad this is a couple of months after introduction, when daily logins rise (obviously) but subscriptions and pvp activity drop and people cite burn out from dailies as the reason they quit.
Can't wait for the "I quit" forum post from people burning themselves out on optional content. |
Axhind
Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation
130
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Posted - 2016.04.12 19:35:03 -
[1336] - Quote
Pryce Caesar wrote:Shallanna Yassavi wrote:CCP Rise wrote:Another small update:
Thanks to feedback we see that it would improve the experience quite a lot minimize the amount of characters available for this reward so we are going to limit the reward to the first character completing the daily task on each account.
Thanks It's still a bad joke. It's still the game telling some of us what to do before we start doing before we go do what we really wanted to do, and the game telling us we have to do it every 22 hours or so. The Dailies are bonuses; they are suggestions. You can choose to not do them if you want to. Just because the game tells you it can be done, does not make it obligatory. If you want the extra SP, go for it. If you don't need the extra SP, you can leave them be. Just don't try to ruin it for everyone because it is a mechanic that you do not like on a personal level. For us newer players, this is a blessing. No longer will our skill training be bound to the whims of the set skill queue training times; we can buff up and quicken our training with skill points earned through completion of dailies.
Dailies are put in because human psychology is such that people feel forced to do it. Otherwise nobody would put it into their game. How exactly is it optional if the main reason for introducing, as cited by CCP Rise, is to get/force players to login? |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
3821
|
Posted - 2016.04.12 19:38:02 -
[1337] - Quote
Circumstantial Evidence wrote:@ Vincent Athena: CCP Rise in post #14 wrote:"how about a reward for either killing an NPC, hacking a Data/Relic thingy or popping a rock?" - Likely one of the first ways we would look to expand in a follow-up release. Right. But is the a AND between those, or an OR? That is do you have to do them all to get the maximum reward, or just one from the list?
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Ravcharas
Infinite Point Violence of Action.
471
|
Posted - 2016.04.12 19:38:06 -
[1338] - Quote
So this is completely anecdotal evidence, take it for what it's worth.
I checked in with a friend of mine who is currently unsubbed. His reaction was an immediate "uh-oh," followed by the opinion that the introduction of dailies is not something that bodes well for the future of a game. He thought 10k was an awful lot of skillpoints, and figured he would pretty much have to set time aside to do the daily in order to not lag behind other players. He didn't see the correlation between logging in to shoot an npc and an increase in in-game activity. Instead, he figured it was stat-padding to keep up appearances for investors and stakeholders.
I've been trying to lure him back in, turns out I'm into co-dependency I guess. I don't think this change will make it more likely he'll return.
Again, completely anecdotal, I know -- so if you want to dismiss it as the desperate gambit of an entrenched contrarian I suppose there's not much I can do about it. |
Gevlin
Fink Operations The Volition Cult
281
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Posted - 2016.04.12 19:48:08 -
[1339] - Quote
Considering that eve is focused around a PVP environment, having people Incouraged. To log on and leave a station is a good thing. More people to shoot. With the removal of clone up grades the risk of sp loss Is minimal.
Someday I will have the time to play. For now it is mining afk in High sec. In Cheap ships
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Niko Lorenzio
United Eve Directorate
610
|
Posted - 2016.04.12 19:49:48 -
[1340] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:Masao Kurata wrote:So you're set on this and nothing's going to change your mind?
Well, fortunately you have statistics that will show you exactly how bad this is a couple of months after introduction, when daily logins rise (obviously) but subscriptions and pvp activity drop and people cite burn out from dailies as the reason they quit. Can't wait for the "I quit" forum post from people burning themselves out on optional content.
More like "I quit because I'm tired of CCP continually ******* over their game and players." I have more sp than I know what to do with. Personally neither this nor sp trading affects me at all. One of alts is training with no implants because I've been too lazy to login and Jump clone to my +5.
That doesn't mean I don't care about something that doesn't affect me or support something just because it would benefit me personally. These are things that affect the entire game and players. Would you like it if your country replaced the national flag with a picture of a big turd? it's optional, you don't have to hang that flag outside your window. Are you really affected personally by govt spying on and prosecuting journalists and dissidents if you're not one yourself?
The CSM XI Election are now open until March 25th, 2016. Consider Niko Lorenzio for CSM XI.
CSM matters, your voice matters, your vote matters!
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Ravcharas
Infinite Point Violence of Action.
471
|
Posted - 2016.04.12 19:53:36 -
[1341] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:Can't wait for the "I quit" forum post from people burning themselves out on optional content. I understand that argument, I really do. But the thing is that something can be optional and compulsory at the same time. (Not mandatory compulsory, soft compulsory.) All it takes is that the payoff is high enough, or the punishment for abstaining is harsh enough -- and people will figure it out on their own. This is usually known as a false choice. And in games, which are supposed to be if not fun then at least entertaining, it's almost always a ****** thing.
The best example I have on hand from Eve is the recently departed skillclones. It was completely optional to forego keeping your clone up to date. No one made you push that button.
For characters that risked getting podded, the cost/benefit estimation was obvious. You keep it updated. If you didn't, there was a very real possibility that you would lose out on skillpoints. There was just no way you would chose the paltry isk savings over sp loss.
That's not an interesting mechanic or system to engage with. It was just drag.
(For characters that didn't risk getting podded, such as station traders, the cost/benefit was equally obvious. The risk of getting podded was zero and nil, so there was no way you would chose even a paltry cost to safeguard against a non-existant risk. Also not an interesting choice to make. But atleast you didn't have to engage with it at regular intervals.)
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Indahmawar Fazmarai
5029
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Posted - 2016.04.12 20:00:11 -
[1342] - Quote
Mizhir wrote:CCP Rise wrote:Another small update:
Thanks to feedback we see that it would improve the experience quite a lot minimize the amount of characters available for this reward so we are going to limit the reward to the first character completing the daily task on each account.
Thanks Still not making them weekly? Dailies are still a ***** for players who don't have the time or the desire to log into EVE each day but still play actively on the days they do.
He already explained. The issue is the people who stopped login in daily because of the extended skill queue. Weekly rewards would do nothing to sort the issue. |
S'Way
1414
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Posted - 2016.04.12 20:21:59 -
[1343] - Quote
Was wondering how the total SP pool would be increased again (might also help keep extractor sales going ?) after players drained their alts.
The idea does seem rushed and not well planned. For example if a player wants to stay -10 or only be a trader etc then they have to give up these SP's. Pushing players into a playstyle type or feel punished for not playing in a certain way in a sandbox game is just wrong - it's no longer a sandbox when that starts to happen.
If this is going to be introduced though, at least let it benefit new players more - maybe double it for new accounts under 30 days old or something. (and at least make it reset with downtime not 22hrs). Those first few days when players see how long it takes to train into things can often be what makes up their mind to keep playing or not.
The big concern is how this feature will be expanded on. If the plan is just to expand this to other gameplay styles (such as explorers, pirates etc) then that's not too worrying...however if it's to add more and more ways of getting SP's without any cap then that's not a good thing. |
Neadayan Drakhon
Heuristic Industrial And Development AddictClan
134
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Posted - 2016.04.12 20:25:07 -
[1344] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:Another small update:
Thanks to feedback we see that it would improve the experience quite a lot minimize the amount of characters available for this reward so we are going to limit the reward to the first character completing the daily task on each account.
Thanks Well, that's 2/3 of the way to an acceptable response. Just gotta drop the daily from that last character too and we're there.
This idea needs to die. |
aldhura
Bartledannians Nite Owls
37
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Posted - 2016.04.12 20:25:53 -
[1345] - Quote
Are sleepers considered NPC ?? Great idea, better than the skill injector method which sees older players getting "less" for the same isk.
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Jack Growler
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
0
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Posted - 2016.04.12 20:28:33 -
[1346] - Quote
Please don't do that CCP. I hate dailys, they are one of the worst game mechanics of mmo games.
Of course nobody HAS to do them but the fact that you have the feeling you miss out on something because you can't or don't want to do stupid grind stuff every day is just bad and has in my opinion no place in EVE. |
sero Hita
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
148
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Posted - 2016.04.12 20:44:20 -
[1347] - Quote
Kym Mena wrote:
Out of all the feedback here, the overwhelmingly negative feedback, the only thing you took from it was this? Is reading comprehension not a strong suit of yours or do you really not give a **** about what we've been saying?
I have come to the conclusion that, as noted previously, your plan is proceeding on script in a bid to get us to shut up by saying "well, it's not as bad as the first idea". I have news for you, I will only acquiesce because I will stop believing that player feedback matters to CCP. I will not be the only one. How long after you lose our trust and respect do you expect to need a new log in "reward" to boost numbers again?
I can't wait to hear what kind of feedback you all get in person, Fanfest should be really interesting.
It will never seize to amaze me that people think requesting a roll back or that CCP tanks a project they have started, counts as constructive or valuable feedback. You should also have read the title before accusing people of being good at reading. It is pretty clear the change was coming no matter what.
and tbh. If someone replied to a post of mine after I had asked for feedback, the way you have done, I would also ignore them. Being a customer does not mean you can use the developers as your own personal litterbox.
Those who replied to rise without being an ass, got it reduced to only one account per day like they wanted. You can say they were played by CCP, but they got what wanted and you got what.... ??? that is right: dailies. congratulations
"I'm all for pvp, don't get me wrong. I've ganked in Empire, blobed in low sec. Got T-shirts from every which-where.. But to be forced into a pvp confrontation that I didn't want is wrong ccp." RealFlisker
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Erihn Sabrovich
7
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Posted - 2016.04.12 20:47:40 -
[1348] - Quote
Somehow, I'd be glad if some stupid people who feel forced to do dailies "in order to keep their SP superiority" (although they say that SP don't matters so much) decide to quit playing... It'll be some less bastard and better for the game.
Dailies ARE NOT REQUIRED... I already played several MMO with dailies and they are nothing else that things that you can do to spend some time when you feel bored.
EVE is a PvP sandbox with no real content (no, powerblock politics and battles are NOT content, that's only people bragging about their deeds). PvE is rather limited (too few different missions so you end up doing the same again and again) so anything that can give something to do to people who are not in the mood to do PvP is good.
If you think that you don't have any choice beside doing the dailies in order to not "lag behind", you'd better stop right now, you're taking this game way too seriously for your sanity.
I've some heavy PvP'ers in my corp... that don't prevent them to sometimes go out on a mining-fleet with the rest of the corp... Their mining skills are not great but they don't give a s*** about it... it just don't matter... it's fun as we are in fleet and on TS, doing something together...
You also see corpmates that are mostly industrials going to these... for the same reason... and you sometimes see the miners/industrials/PvE/Explorers join some PvP fight with their corp mate too... With low-cost low-skill ships... and it's still fun...
What p**s me off is the way these "older players" are always going nuclear and saying "if you do that, I'll quit" (which they don't after all) every time someone talks about way to get SP like if they were protecting some treasure... It's not about removing them anything... it's about having the newcomers get more fun with the game...
What is killing EVE is not the lack of content (it may help but it's not the main reason), it's these stupid players who feel "elite" because they belong to powerblock and can rule EVE's world... So, if that changes get on your nerves, feel free to leave... EVE will be better without you !!! |
Drago Shouna
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
334
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Posted - 2016.04.12 20:51:09 -
[1349] - Quote
Mara Tessidar wrote:Maybe if this game wasn't boring as shit more people would log in and you wouldn't have to add dumb gimmicks like daily chores.
So why exactly are you here? |
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
2742
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Posted - 2016.04.12 20:54:43 -
[1350] - Quote
Drago Shouna wrote:Mara Tessidar wrote:Maybe if this game wasn't boring as shit more people would log in and you wouldn't have to add dumb gimmicks like daily chores. So why exactly are you here?
For the same reason people who hate daily will still run them. No control over what they do. |
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