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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 13 post(s)
Borgholio Minmatar Borgholio's Collective Prime Orbital Systems	Posted - 2009.01.15 18:13:00 - [781] Originally by: Ming Mongol The real joke here is that CCP expects people to shell out cash to upgrade their luxury entertainment platforms at a time when the world is going to hell and disposable income is rapidly diminishing. Makes me wonder if there is anyone thinking over there. Well keep in mind that these are the same kinds of people who were in charge of managing the Icelandic economy...and look what happened there. :-/ ----------------------------------- You will be assimilated...bunghole!
Marcus Arelios Caldari Global Sheep Enterprises	Posted - 2009.01.15 18:36:00 - [782] Originally by: Borgholio Originally by: Ming Mongol The real joke here is that CCP expects people to shell out cash to upgrade their luxury entertainment platforms at a time when the world is going to hell and disposable income is rapidly diminishing. Makes me wonder if there is anyone thinking over there. Well keep in mind that these are the same kinds of people who were in charge of managing the Icelandic economy...and look what happened there. :-/ You mean the country that up until the global crash has had one of the world's best economies for about 10 years? The reason they crashed so hard was because the entire world crashed and they are a small country with a primary business of banks (and fishing). Changes affect them much greater than larger countries.
AlleyKat Gallente Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams	Posted - 2009.01.15 18:47:00 - [783] Stating the obvious here; but when 2009 draws to a close, the Trinity II graphics update would have been released for two years, and currently has been available for a year. Do you think that would have been enough time to at the very least consider upgrading whatever laptop/desktop you were running EVE on? You must have realised that Trinity II is where CCP wanted to be, you must have realised that Ambulation looked very 'non-Classic' client to you? Not only that, I'm sure if I searched through the dev blogs and other community feedback, I could probably find details pertaining to the very existence of a graphics update for probably 12-18 months prior to the release of Trinity II. Possibly even that this update would be (originally) a DX 10.0 release? You may consider it unfair that EVE is strongly considering fading out SM2 by this year's close, and that this will effect your wallet, or, effect your ability to dual-box etc - but I have to be honest in my opinion and say this: I think you knew this day would come - and you should have planned ahead. Sorry. AK.
Marcus Arelios Caldari Global Sheep Enterprises	Posted - 2009.01.15 18:47:00 - [784] Originally by: Toninu Hi, While i do appreciate that CCP is making an effort to improve the game looks etc I would like to point out that gameplay and bugs are more important to focus on. I have a desktop with 6800gt and a laptop with intel 965 express chipset and eve classic runs better on my laptop. And for those saying play it on yur desktop, I think they should try seting up a bedside table and play eve while near their partner. I used to play wow but it is too much demanding on the hours and always actively attached to the keyboard. On the other hand eve is a more relaxed game and the fact that most of the gameplay goes on preparation and setup i find it more challenging and amusing. I am for letting people use their old pc to still play. I think that being able to play on a laptop is a huge advantage on other games. I agree with a small client to check market and skill change I am in favour of a skill queue system (at least 3 skills) I think CCP must stop podding system or let people insure their implants :) But this may be the irrelevant view of an old 30 year old dude that still thinks he is a little boy playing pc games ^^. only my 2 euro cents I agree with your points, but what your saying is to put more focus on gameplay and bugs. I'm a software engineer and I can tell you, it must cost them ridiculous amounts of resources to maintain two asset libraries for the classic and premium. This change will allow them to use one asset library and put more focus on coding a single engine rather than two. With this change they can redirect resources to gameplay/bug fixes. I fully agree with CCP forcing SM2, SM3 is cutting it a little close, maybe wait until mid-2010 and it will be better. By then a lot of people should be rebuilding old SM1 machines anyways. "should" being the key word.
T Op	Posted - 2009.01.15 18:55:00 - [785] on thing to consider about 'industry standards' is that it is always a 'forced migration'... advances in CPU's caused advances in all pc systems... CPU went from 25mhz, to 133mhz..266..600..800..etc... meanwhile: ISA became PCI, became AGP, became PCIe... SIMMs became DIMMS, DIP's became jumpers, jumpers became 'whats a jumper???' BUS went from 15hz, to 1800mhz MEM went from 2kb sticks to 8gb sticks... et cetera.. et cetera.. et cetera.. program developers are always quick to take advantage of new hardware architecture. system requirements always rise, never fall. point is.. you either adapt, or you die. some of the systems people have been describing, sound like they can barely handle XP... really folks... if you are being left behind.. who's fault is it... bet those xbox360, playstation, or wii games really look great on that 48" 1080p though..
Zeko Rena Caldari Tankt	Posted - 2009.01.15 19:16:00 - [786] I wish at least one person on the whole forum had read the part from my post's that mentioned that in one of the EVE Fan Fest videos they discuss a sort of MSN type client they are working on that has no 3D visuals but allows you to access corp chat, market, and your skill sheets. I cant remeber what video it is but actually watch them and learn abit more about what is also on the way. Another thing is we dont know a whole lot about the premium lite client yet, just that it wont support SM 2.0 it still might have visuals close to the classic client who knows :) Please watch the EVE Fan Fest videos they are very cool to watch, and intresting, im sure there still on the EVE site under the video's section.
Tess Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2009.01.15 19:25:00 - [787] For what it's worth, I play on a Mini-Mac running an Intel GMA 950 chipset. I believe it supports ShaderModel 2.0. I'm a casual player; I've played Eve off and on over the years since 2003. If support for ShaderModel 2.0 went away; I would drop my subscription until I upgraded to the latest Mini-Mac which I'm guessing would support ShaderModel 3.0. I run my computers until they die so that wouldn't be for a while. Some of us don't care about the latest and greatest when it comes to computers. I bought the mini-Mac for work and usability. Playing Eve on my Mini-Mac is sort of a bonus. If my mini-Mac was no longer able to handle playing Eve, I wouldn't be heartbroken. But um, why do that to us? Keep support for SM 2.0 alive for a couple more years. It might be more work but it's also more iskies for you.
Carithon	Posted - 2009.01.15 19:31:00 - [788] Well, there goes all my plans on what I was going to do with this character. Son of a.... Hmmm... now I'll actually have to go out and get a life... oh, no's. "The Sun, mommy. It hurts."
Maxsim Goratiev	Posted - 2009.01.15 19:37:00 - [789] Edited by: Maxsim Goratiev on 15/01/2009 19:42:17 I am one of those luky people that have a good laptop (got one this cristmas) and have a desctop where i play crysis on very high, and in sertain areas get up to 200 fps in eve. Mostly it is slightly under 100 though. Quote: while they run SETI@Home and ray trace while compressing HD movies How did you know? I am 3D artist and spend alot of time raytrasing... Anctually, to those who cannot upgrade, eve has a fairly exp-encive subscription, so if you could, subscription for a couple of months costs as much as a healthy hargware upgrade.... geforse 8800 GTS costs 100 euro here, and in some cases you can get it cheaper...That is subscription for 5 months..This is likely to run trinity 2 with dx10... And if not i am getting SLI for crysis anyway... But there are cheaper grafics cards.... Yet, those who have laptops have a big problem... I welcome the change personally... yes, people who use laptops do have a problem, and i know how hard it is, new laptop is expensive, and you cannot just change the videocard.. PS: ALL intel internal grafics is evel.
Obento Jones	Posted - 2009.01.15 19:42:00 - [790] Oh now you tell us... I just bought a new computer over the weekend (putting a huge dent in my savings) just so I could use the premium client.

Pronas Scoopex Majesta Empire	Posted - 2009.01.15 20:11:00 - [791] What i will encourage CCP is to do a patch for allow them to collect annonymous graphics card capacity. So they can saw exactly how many customers won't be able to play. If the graphics card is not compatible, ask the subscriber if he plan to upgrade and when. Personnaly my laptop have Radeon 9600 mobility and won't be able to play eve after shader 2.0 and don't need to change my laptop at all. My wife computer have Radeon 9700 and work like a charm when using alt or for her when playing civilization IV, don't see any need for upgrade to new one. Also this computer is AGP and good graphics card not exist anymore for AGP... So the best will be that's CCP should do a survey with customers participation, and the best will be have the annonymous collector for get stats and fact
farfrael Freelancer Union Unaffiliated	Posted - 2009.01.15 20:17:00 - [792] Originally by: Toad Black Edited by: Toad Black on 15/01/2009 00:53:36 Check the news. On the same day as this announcement, they announced public beta of premium content on OS/X. Which hopefully means premium content on Linux will follow shortly, since afaik OS/X uses opengl ... I don't care about hopefully, it should not be difficult to reply with a simple yes or no regarding their intention to keep supporting linux officially CCP has clearly been dodging the linux support question since it has been asked
Miklabjarnir Primus	Posted - 2009.01.15 20:27:00 - [793] What I miss in this zillion of comments is somebody who explans just why EVE needs the features of the "premium" client? I run classic on my macBook Pro, and I do not miss the graphics of my dual Opteron / GeForce 9600 GT 1GB running the premium version. Come on, just who runs a game like EVE for the eye candy? My advice would be to drop the features that require SM3 or newer, and concentrate graphics efforts on flexibilty and compatibility. The classic view enhanced by AA and anisotropic filtering when the hardware supports it would do wonders. This would solve the costs of maintaining two versions, look good enough for any serious gamer, and be fast enough even on weak hardware. Then, insead of pouring money into superficial fluff, the resources could be canneled into gameplay, AIs and content.
Elamef FyreStar	Posted - 2009.01.15 20:35:00 - [794] Being able to afford a card is not the problem. It is being able to afford a new motherboard, etc. that is compatible with the card. Also, it is a matter of laptops not being upgradable. I have multiple accounts that I actively play and with these changes I will be out. Yet another large company not wanting what is best for the buyer but what THEY think is best for the gamer. I ask, along with so many others, to not loss backwards compatibility with older hardware. Who cares if I can run premium graphics or not. I used em and thought it sucked and actually went back to Classic. Elamef Fyrestar/Izaa/Vixen Vicious/+ 1/2 dozen more
Kagura Nikon Minmatar The Black Dawn Gang	Posted - 2009.01.15 20:37:00 - [795] Originally by: Mara Rinn Edited by: Mara Rinn on 15/01/2009 02:17:36 Edited by: Mara Rinn on 15/01/2009 02:16:22 Originally by: Kagura Nikon The only thing that limits how many clients you can run is main system memory and CPU itself. In 9 of 10 cases will be memory bottlenecked (system, not video card) I have problems running two clients in Premium, but can run just fine in Classic, only because Premium uses far more texture memory than Classic. The bottleneck in my case is that the graphics card only has 128MB for texture memory. Multiple instances of the EVE client do not share textures, so I'll end up with the same textures loaded twice, effectively cutting the graphics card down to 64MB of texture memory for each client. In my case, I'd be able to run multiple independent clients on my laptop without any trouble if it was possible to turn textures off. One optimisation that CCP could make is for the one client to allow multiple simultaneous sessions, thereby keeping all the graphics assets in memory for only 1 client. Each flight window would be part of one application - this would allow other efficiencies such as only sending object details down the pipe once instead of once for each client as it jumps into system or loads the grid at the end of warping in. but that is completely unrelated to the SM used. My observations are upon people being worried on the SM2 to SM3 move. That move will have zero NEGATIVE impact result as long as your card has SM3 capabilities. Also if CCP wanted to do it right they could easily make both accounts running share the same textures resources. They just need to wake up and make the game client multi-account capable. The card drivers would solve the rest by themselves. That would completely remove the memmory factor from the multi account issue. The complain is a valid one but unrelated to shader models. But does not make less true that CCP should wake up and do something that is SIMPLE as sharing render contexts. And don't dare CCP to tell me this is difficult, I just implemented not long ago at work a shared rendering context between 10 tomographic 3d reconstruction viewers sharing the same resources in a single rendering process. Took me a few hours. Any well designed system with a well decoupled graphic system can do it as well. ------------------------------------------------- If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
Vorlich Dreculia Amarr Universal Business Solutions	Posted - 2009.01.15 20:39:00 - [796] Edited by: Vorlich Dreculia on 15/01/2009 20:41:49 To Miklabjarnir Primus: That's totally true. I've never known anyone who played this game for the graphics, they were always pretty bad, and won't ever be 'industry level'. People actively mock Eve because it is not graphical, and that's why I love it. Buy yeah, if CCP are going to cut off a large segment of their customer base (including me) I'd at least like to know why. Does the game need to be so much better? Aren't there loads of known graphical bugs anyway? Why not remodel ships to look a little nicer, or include more customisable features. Any development has to remain compatible for all players, otherwise from a customer service standpoint, it's abysmal.
Kagura Nikon Minmatar The Black Dawn Gang	Posted - 2009.01.15 20:43:00 - [797] Originally by: Koyama Ise Originally by: WheatGrass I don't mind the change but please do give us another client that will run on >= ten year old junk. That way we can change skills, work the market, and do other in-station stuff -other than walking in stations. Thank you. I no longer have a T/S 1000 or T/S 2068. So, would a web / Java based client be feasible or just a web page? Also, how about making the new client selectable between DirectX and OpenGL? Perhaps that would make things a bit easier for the linux Wine crowd and Cenega. Thank you for all the new toys. I know you mean good but making both an Open GL and DirectX client I believe would defeat the purpose of phasing out SM 1. Because in the end you'd have 2 different rendering engines which may or may not need new textures/models. completely unrelated in fact. Making an OpenGl renderer would bring a lot of initial work true, since its a lot of new code. But that would impact in nothing on the art department. OpenGL and DX are equivalent APIs (GL still keeps a lot of outdated stuff that makes a pain in arse for driver developers, but aside of that nothing huge). ------------------------------------------------- If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
Wacktopia Infinity Miners Union Eych Four Eks Zero Ahr	Posted - 2009.01.15 20:47:00 - [798] Originally by: AnyOldIron I`d agree with the datamining on login but make sure it logs which client you use , as well as your hardware config . Absolutely, they really should do this so they know what percentage of players will be unable to play when they release the update. Originally by: Des Jardin The most interesting aspect of this entire thread is that EVE players do not play the game for the graphics. A lot of people are talking about the graphics, but you're right: its not the primary motivator for playing. I must admit that I really want to upgrade to premium when I can get round to it because the classic view is a little basic. Everyone likes a bit of eye candy, so long as it doesnt become detromental to gameplay.
Gone'Postal Aztec Industry	Posted - 2009.01.15 21:11:00 - [799] Originally by: Des Jardin The most interesting aspect of this entire thread is that EVE players do not play the game for the graphics. Amen, The updated graphics just makes everything looks like its covered in KY, isn't eve a dark cold harsh place.. not bright and reflective to a point it burns out the players eyeballs. The classic client is a great thing for eve, it's a low graphical needy client, Ideal for the lowspec machine or the part time gamer who hasn't got a desktop or high powered laptop(for whatever reason, space, cost) the 2 laptops I run eve on were given to me from a place of employment for work completed, there not graphical machines. All this will do for me is drop 2 accounts and force me to sit at my desktop, something I hate doing tbh. If i'm 100% honest, CCP are updating the wrong thing, they should (imo) be working on client stablity and game internals.
Evil Catbert	Posted - 2009.01.15 21:18:00 - [800] Time for change people. We don't live in the stone age. Stop complaining about the new requirements. Either get on board or don't. If you can't afford the $10-$30 cards (that's for AGP and PCI Express cards) than need to rethink why you pay for EVE. If you use GTC in game you have plenty of cash saved to buy the damn graphics card. I would recommend those that want to run 5-10 clients on 1 PC need to rethink their strategy. Either buy or build a machine that can easily handle a load like that. Don't blame CCP because you are too stupid to realize it. This especially goes for all those teenage whiners out there. Sit down, shut up and grow up.

Gone'Postal Aztec Industry	Posted - 2009.01.15 21:19:00 - [801] Originally by: T Op bet those xbox360, playstation, or wii games really look great on that 48" 1080p though.. Yeah they do thanks. Forced Migration works well in some areas, however some areas it goes down like a lead turd and is looked back on with a sorry face and the words.. ah ****, maybe that wasn't such a good plan..
Green Looter Basic Tritanium Mining North	Posted - 2009.01.15 21:42:00 - [802] Edited by: Green Looter on 15/01/2009 21:50:59 Evil Catbert you really shine with your brightness thru the dark night man.... Just lol Eve playing grandfather giving constructive advice to the kids ?
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong	Posted - 2009.01.15 22:01:00 - [803] wait, I'm confused. It sounds like the devs are saying that sm2 might be removed so they can make new stuff in SM3 only. But this change to sm2 is so they can make only one set of art assets. So why does it work now but not then? I mean why can't CCP just auto generate the content again? what does sm3 really do? What does sm3 really do. IS it just the normal maps? why can't those just be turned off and TA-DA, it would work?
Imiarr Timshae Caldari Funny Men In Funny Hats	Posted - 2009.01.15 22:01:00 - [804] Goddamn CCP. I don't run Classic due to PC performance issues, I run it because all of the ships look dreadful in Premium. Idiots.
rubico1337 Caldari nefarious badgers inc	Posted - 2009.01.15 22:03:00 - [805] Edited by: rubico1337 on 15/01/2009 22:03:36 Originally by: T Op on thing to consider about 'industry standards' is that it is always a 'forced migration'... advances in CPU's caused advances in all pc systems... CPU went from 25mhz, to 133mhz..266..600..800..etc... meanwhile: ISA became PCI, became AGP, became PCIe... SIMMs became DIMMS, DIP's became jumpers, jumpers became 'whats a jumper???' BUS went from 15hz, to 1800mhz MEM went from 2kb sticks to 8gb sticks... et cetera.. et cetera.. et cetera.. program developers are always quick to take advantage of new hardware architecture. system requirements always rise, never fall. point is.. you either adapt, or you die. some of the systems people have been describing, sound like they can barely handle XP... really folks... if you are being left behind.. who's fault is it... bet those xbox360, playstation, or wii games really look great on that 48" 1080p though.. im glad you have the ability to keep up with your PC smugness with latest hardware that you use in your mom's basement, good for you unfortunately in the real world, there are things other than the latest up to date rigs on peoples minds. like jobs, girlfriends, and bills. Originally by: Blind Man okies so liek when u warp in on them u shod target them... and stuff k.then u FIRE ZE MISSILES and use your heavy nos cause it drain their cap then u click the jhammer and dampenener
Marcus Arelios Caldari Global Sheep Enterprises	Posted - 2009.01.15 22:03:00 - [806] Edited by: Marcus Arelios on 15/01/2009 22:05:23 Newegg: Can get a SM3 video card for $20, barely higher than one month of EVE. Laptop owners: Laptops are not generally designed for games...if you want to play games on laptops, then your going to pay for it. (i.e. alienware $3000 laptop, or you could get an HP laptop for like $1200 that has SM4 support). You can't expect CCP to keep paying and wasting time maintaining software that is outdated while the rest of the world keeps advancing. Can you think of any other game company in the world that is maintaining SM1 software? Not likely. Let alone one that is maintaining two versions of the same game for that hardware. You don't need the latest hardware to play EVE premium with SM3 support. That hardware is even getting old by now for those that like to be on the bleeding edge. Anyone that buys bleeding edge is an idiot though, the prices are way to drastically high. I stick one generation behind when building new machines and my stuff runs amazing well for half the price.
ishkurz Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2009.01.15 22:05:00 - [807] so if I don't have enough money to upgrade my computer I need to grow up ? I think that's the best post I seen in this forum that pretty bad coming from someone that states he's older then some wining teen agers
rubico1337 Caldari nefarious badgers inc	Posted - 2009.01.15 22:06:00 - [808] Originally by: Evil Catbert Time for change people. We don't live in the stone age. Stop complaining about the new requirements. Either get on board or don't. If you can't afford the $10-$30 cards (that's for AGP and PCI Express cards) than need to rethink why you pay for EVE. If you use GTC in game you have plenty of cash saved to buy the damn graphics card. I would recommend those that want to run 5-10 clients on 1 PC need to rethink their strategy. Either buy or build a machine that can easily handle a load like that. Don't blame CCP because you are too stupid to realize it. This especially goes for all those teenage whiners out there. Sit down, shut up and grow up. in order to update to SM 3 those on outdated laptops would have to buy new ones Originally by: Blind Man okies so liek when u warp in on them u shod target them... and stuff k.then u FIRE ZE MISSILES and use your heavy nos cause it drain their cap then u click the jhammer and dampenener
Jerry Rocket	Posted - 2009.01.15 22:08:00 - [809] Consolidating the game clients and updating the minimum graphics requirement is a great idea, keep the changes coming. I applaud CCP's intentions to provide realistic hardware support, while simultaneously striving for great game experience.
Evil Catbert	Posted - 2009.01.15 22:10:00 - [810] Edited by: Evil Catbert on 15/01/2009 22:14:25 Originally by: Green Looter Eve playing grandfather giving constructive advice to the kids ? I'm not a grandfather. Not by a long shot. I'm only in my late 20s. I normally don't even post to these forums for the fact that most of the time the posts are complete gibberish. It just annoys me to read all these posts about how CCP wants to ruin the game or alienate its clients. Mostly it was just an outburst aimed toward those idiots. Feel free to do the same. As for CCP's decision to change the client, I'm all for it. I only recommend that they maintain SM2 at minimum only because it is the most common shader on graphics cards made within the last few years. I have no doubt that given another year or two that SM3 will be as common as SM2 was and the base code can reflect that. I will assist those that have problems reading. Originally by: Evil Catbert If you can't afford the $10-$30 cards (that's for AGP and PCI Express cards) than need to rethink why you pay for EVE. If you use GTC in game you have plenty of cash saved to buy the damn graphics card. There shouldn't be any trouble updating desktop machines to SM2. Those with laptops are the ones that have more issues that can't be handled here.



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