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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
heslookinatu
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Posted - 2009.03.08 10:27:00 -
[1]
I have been finding lately that no fleets are wanting the blaster ships, the deimos is next to useless compared to other HAC's, the brutix is outclassed by other BC's, thorax is meh etc.
Is it in my best interest to train for the stabber/vaga/munin or amarr if i am more interested in using guns and high dps?
The vaga and stabber look like very fun ships to fly, pilgrim looks awesome, hurricane looks fun etc.
Thoughts? I am basically looking for a good gun race with decently speedy ships and good solo ships (speedy isn't required but it obviously makes it more fun i currently only fly inties)
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sophisticatedlimabean
Gallente
Delinquent Habits
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Posted - 2009.03.08 10:40:00 -
[2]
The fact that MED blasters fitted ships operate inside the optimal of every other race so get hit very very hard by every ship in the hostile gang makes them coffins in gang combat. Med sized blaster ships make okish solo gank ships as they have a reasonably sized target selection.
On the other hand the real problem lies with BS sized blasters as they have a virtually non-existent solo target selection while having all the same drawbacks as the medium sized ships/weapons in gang combat, and gang combat is the only real combat available to BS.
My views may reflect those of my corp/alliance, but if you wanna know for sure ask em for gods sake. |
Furb Killer
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.03.08 10:43:00 -
[3]
The brutix is probably the best of the tier 1 BCs.
Thorax is a good ship, for solo/small roaming gangs.
---------------------------------------------
 Originally by: Neth'Rae
Military experts are calling this a troll.
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heslookinatu
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Posted - 2009.03.08 10:58:00 -
[4]
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean
The fact that MED blasters fitted ships operate inside the optimal of every other race so get hit very very hard by every ship in the hostile gang makes them coffins in gang combat. Med sized blaster ships make okish solo gank ships as they have a reasonably sized target selection.
On the other hand the real problem lies with BS sized blasters as they have a virtually non-existent solo target selection while having all the same drawbacks as the medium sized ships/weapons in gang combat, and gang combat is the only real combat available to BS.
This is kind of the exact reason why i am wondering if i should train amarr or minmitar and which of the two if i am already gallente spec.
Also keep in mind what i said in first post of the vagabond being my ideal type of ship
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Furb Killer
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.03.08 11:15:00 -
[5]
If you just want the best it isnt even close, go amarr.
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Originally by: Neth'Rae
Military experts are calling this a troll.
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heslookinatu
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Posted - 2009.03.08 12:02:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Furb Killer
If you just want the best it isnt even close, go amarr.
Not interested in the FOTM best i figured the post made that pretty clear.
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Tzar'rim
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Posted - 2009.03.08 12:13:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Tzar''rim on 08/03/2009 12:13:52
There's a whole lot of BS in this threat (and in general from the Gallente Whining Crew), the facts are that blasters are short range but then do amazing dps while at the same time have the mid/low slots to tank and tackle. In fleets this isn't used too much as, generally, targets tend to be at 10-20km (gate combat) and you have dedicated tacklers.
The culprit really is in passive EHP tanking, fleets like BS's with a ton of armor who don't have to tackle or anything but just do damage, Amarr fits that nicely as they're not exactly mobile, have the low slots to put in damagemods and a good tank and do good damage at range. But lack the midslots to be versatile/solo. And in fleets you don't neccesarily HAVE to be versatile if you have enough numbers and dedicated ships/roles.
Would passive tanking not work too well then all of a sudden they's have to active tank more which means they'll need more midslots to counter the insane cap use of running reppers+firing lasers.
The effect is that heavily tanked ships are quite immobile which hurts short range ships even MORE, ofcourse blasters pilots could use different ammo/turrets/modules to make up for the range issue but that would lower their OMFGWTFPWN damage and would require thinking, so that won't go well with the EFT crowd. At the same time they still think that they all should fit long range points and then complain that they can't hit stuff upclose due to the webbing changes and people MWDing away/around them.
What it REALLY comes down to is that for a long, long LONG time Gallente was the BEST, no contest. They had massive damage, they had massive dronespace, uber ships and with the 90% webs, once they cought someone upclose they'd just laugh as they melted them away in seconds. And NOW they've been toned down a bit, to be more in line with other races but they're STILL very good, they're STILL very much capable of going solo and they STILL perform in fleets, as long as people stop thinking about how it was in the past and would finally adapt to the current situation
Which ofcourse won't happen cause they went from uber to less uber so now Gallente 'sucks'. It comes down to your playing style, Gallente does massive damage at short range in a very agressive/in your face kind of way. If you like that approach you'll make it work, if you're looking for FOTM I'd suggest you train the crappiest race cause when you have the SP it'll be changed again.
Self-proclaimed idiot
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Naomi Knight
Amarr
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2009.03.08 12:13:00 -
[8]
Originally by: heslookinatu
Originally by: Furb Killer
If you just want the best it isnt even close, go amarr.
Not interested in the FOTM best i figured the post made that pretty clear.
Train caldari ^^
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heslookinatu
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Posted - 2009.03.08 12:16:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Naomi Knight
Originally by: heslookinatu
Originally by: Furb Killer
If you just want the best it isnt even close, go amarr.
Not interested in the FOTM best i figured the post made that pretty clear.
Train caldari ^^
Caldari is the complete opposite of what i was reffering to in the OP 
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SuperNova221
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Posted - 2009.03.08 12:18:00 -
[10]
Just fly what you like. Not what the forums want you too like.
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heslookinatu
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Posted - 2009.03.08 12:19:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Tzar'rim
Edited by: Tzar''rim on 08/03/2009 12:13:52
There's a whole lot of BS in this threat (and in general from the Gallente Whining Crew), the facts are that blasters are short range but then do amazing dps while at the same time have the mid/low slots to tank and tackle. In fleets this isn't used too much as, generally, targets tend to be at 10-20km (gate combat) and you have dedicated tacklers.
The culprit really is in passive EHP tanking, fleets like BS's with a ton of armor who don't have to tackle or anything but just do damage, Amarr fits that nicely as they're not exactly mobile, have the low slots to put in damagemods and a good tank and do good damage at range. But lack the midslots to be versatile/solo. And in fleets you don't neccesarily HAVE to be versatile if you have enough numbers and dedicated ships/roles.
Would passive tanking not work too well then all of a sudden they's have to active tank more which means they'll need more midslots to counter the insane cap use of running reppers+firing lasers.
The effect is that heavily tanked ships are quite immobile which hurts short range ships even MORE, ofcourse blasters pilots could use different ammo/turrets/modules to make up for the range issue but that would lower their OMFGWTFPWN damage and would require thinking, so that won't go well with the EFT crowd. At the same time they still think that they all should fit long range points and then complain that they can't hit stuff upclose due to the webbing changes and people MWDing away/around them.
What it REALLY comes down to is that for a long, long LONG time Gallente was the BEST, no contest. They had massive damage, they had massive dronespace, uber ships and with the 90% webs, once they cought someone upclose they'd just laugh as they melted them away in seconds. And NOW they've been toned down a bit, to be more in line with other races but they're STILL very good, they're STILL very much capable of going solo and they STILL perform in fleets, as long as people stop thinking about how it was in the past and would finally adapt to the current situation
Which ofcourse won't happen cause they went from uber to less uber so now Gallente 'sucks'. It comes down to your playing style, Gallente does massive damage at short range in a very agressive/in your face kind of way. If you like that approach you'll make it work, if you're looking for FOTM I'd suggest you train the crappiest race cause when you have the SP it'll be changed again.
The only blaster ships that aren't outclassed by other races are really the megathron and taranis. Vexor is better then thorax, ishtar is better then deimos, myrmidon is better then brutix, gallente recons are pretty meh(decent tackler i guess). Arazu is decent solo boat.
Gallente is fine as a whole, the blaster ships are not, they are surpassed by the drone ship in that class almost always.
This was my point, if i am interested in fast gun ships should i switch to mini? or even amarr?
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heslookinatu
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Posted - 2009.03.08 12:24:00 -
[12]
Edited by: heslookinatu on 08/03/2009 12:24:17
Originally by: SuperNova221
Just fly what you like. Not what the forums want you too like.
I'll try and rephrase this as this post got lost in the thought that it was a gallente whine, it isn't. Simply put...
What is the best race for guerilla combat, solo guerilla, small gang, quick in and out gangs and covert grief gangs.
If this is the gameplay i am looking for which race is the best choice (its not gallente i already found this out the hard way)
*Edit*
Quote:
Guerrilla warfare is the unconventional warfare and combat with which a small group of combatants use mobile tactics (ambushes, raids, etc.) to combat a larger and less mobile formal army. The guerrilla army uses ambush (stealth and surprise) and mobility (draw enemy forces to terrain unsuited to them) in attacking vulnerable targets in enemy territory.
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SuperNova221
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Posted - 2009.03.08 12:30:00 -
[13]
Well for guerrilla work Minmatar. That's where they excel. I would say Minmatar and Gallente but you already said that they aren't the race for you.
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Tzar'rim
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Posted - 2009.03.08 12:32:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Tzar''rim on 08/03/2009 12:33:08
Blasterboats are fine but not for every situation, in fleets drones suck, in roaming gangs where you might have to move/flee drones suck. The thing is that pound for pound Gallente tanking turret ships outdo (for instance) Minnie tanking turret ships. The only minnies that are any good are the fast ones, the Cane and the Typhoon. The other BS are crap for solo/fleet, lets not talk about the cyclone and being fast doesn't help you in fleet combat apart from getting away.
Minnie lacks tank, lacks dps and lacks focus (versatility mostly means 'not very good at the role you're trying to fulfill, while you COULD fit for different roles it's never going to be optimised). They do have good solo options but have to be careful what they attack as Amarr will melt them, Caldari doesn't care about being neuted and you REALLY have to stay at range from blasterboats.
Amarr lacks solo options and control, they're good at 3 things; Sit still, do damage, have range. They lack the midslots to have proper tackling options while keeping the injector/WMD combo (fitting an MWD on Amarr is heresy anyway and quite difficult).
If you want to complement your solo abilities you have with Gallente I'd go with Amarr for fleet use. If you want to solo more and use tactics rather than tank+gank go Minnie. If you want the best of both while haven't trained for anything really, stick with Gallente.
From your edit above I'd say go minnie but don't make the mistake thinking they're uber, or try to fly them the same way as you do with Gallente cause they blow up real fast.
Self-proclaimed idiot
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heslookinatu
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Posted - 2009.03.08 12:37:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Tzar'rim
Edited by: Tzar''rim on 08/03/2009 12:33:08
Blasterboats are fine but not for every situation, in fleets drones suck, in roaming gangs where you might have to move/flee drones suck. The thing is that pound for pound Gallente tanking turret ships outdo (for instance) Minnie tanking turret ships. The only minnies that are any good are the fast ones, the Cane and the Typhoon. The other BS are crap for solo/fleet, lets not talk about the cyclone and being fast doesn't help you in fleet combat apart from getting away.
Minnie lacks tank, lacks dps and lacks focus (versatility mostly means 'not very good at the role you're trying to fulfill, while you COULD fit for different roles it's never going to be optimised). They do have good solo options but have to be careful what they attack as Amarr will melt them, Caldari doesn't care about being neuted and you REALLY have to stay at range from blasterboats.
Amarr lacks solo options and control, they're good at 3 things; Sit still, do damage, have range. They lack the midslots to have proper tackling options while keeping the injector/WMD combo (fitting an MWD on Amarr is heresy anyway and quite difficult).
If you want to complement your solo abilities you have with Gallente I'd go with Amarr for fleet use. If you want to solo more and use tactics rather than tank+gank go Minnie. If you want the best of both while haven't trained for anything really, stick with Gallente.
From your edit above I'd say go minnie but don't make the mistake thinking they're uber, or try to fly them the same way as you do with Gallente cause they blow up real fast.
Ya, I understand they aren't uber and have their limitations, and i understand how to fly them considering i really only fly the ares so i know about range limits and keeping out of web and staying moving.
Thats the play i like, fast and hit and run and sneaky, just approach and tank isn't my style of play at all.
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Tzar'rim
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Posted - 2009.03.08 12:38:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Tzar''rim on 08/03/2009 12:39:09
Besides, a 1600plate heavy electron Thorax with 5 EC-600 drones is pure win.
-edit-
Yes, if you want the fast "w00000000h!!" combat style Minnie is the way to go :)
Self-proclaimed idiot
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Naomi Knight
Amarr
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2009.03.08 12:39:00 -
[17]
Matars are the best especially for you, and they are good in gangs/fleets too , just fit them with artys. Speed ,quick locking huge alpha is awesome for medium gangs/roamings or gate camp.
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sophisticatedlimabean
Gallente
Delinquent Habits
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Posted - 2009.03.08 12:46:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Tzar'rim
There's a whole lot of BS in this thread (and in general from the Gallente Whining Crew), the facts are that blasters are short range but then do amazing dps.
They do a tiny bit more dps for a hugely smaller available range, and the BS is yours.
Originally by: Tzar'rim
The culprit really is in passive EHP tanking, fleets like BS's with a ton of armor who don't have to tackle or anything but just do damage, Amarr fits that nicely as they're not exactly mobile, have the low slots to put in damagemods and a good tank and do good damage at range. But lack the midslots to be versatile/solo. And in fleets you don't necessarily HAVE to be versatile if you have enough numbers and dedicated ships/roles.
The baddon has plenty of mid slots, exactly the same as the mega in fact.
Originally by: Tzar'rim
Would passive tanking not work too well then all of a sudden they's have to active tank more which means they'll need more midslots to counter the insane cap use of running reppers+firing lasers.
Blasters need to run a mwd as well as the rest as they need to burn into range of every target so try running reppers, MWD and blasters before you complain about cap.
Originally by: Tzar'rim
What it REALLY comes down to is that for a long, long LONG time Gallente was the BEST, no contest.
Rubbish, gallente have always been weak in gang combat and with the web and game changes we have had solo BS pvp is virtually non existent unless you are a sissi warrior.
My views may reflect those of my corp/alliance, but if you wanna know for sure ask em for gods sake. |
Tzar'rim
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Posted - 2009.03.08 12:57:00 -
[19]
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean
Originally by: Tzar'rim
There's a whole lot of BS in this thread (and in general from the Gallente Whining Crew), the facts are that blasters are short range but then do amazing dps.
They do a tiny bit more dps for a hugely smaller available range, and the BS is yours.
Originally by: Tzar'rim
The culprit really is in passive EHP tanking, fleets like BS's with a ton of armor who don't have to tackle or anything but just do damage, Amarr fits that nicely as they're not exactly mobile, have the low slots to put in damagemods and a good tank and do good damage at range. But lack the midslots to be versatile/solo. And in fleets you don't necessarily HAVE to be versatile if you have enough numbers and dedicated ships/roles.
The baddon has plenty of mid slots, exactly the same as the mega in fact.
Originally by: Tzar'rim
Would passive tanking not work too well then all of a sudden they's have to active tank more which means they'll need more midslots to counter the insane cap use of running reppers+firing lasers.
Blasters need to run a mwd as well as the rest as they need to burn into range of every target so try running reppers, MWD and blasters before you complain about cap.
Originally by: Tzar'rim
What it REALLY comes down to is that for a long, long LONG time Gallente was the BEST, no contest.
Rubbish, gallente have always been weak in gang combat and with the web and game changes we have had solo BS pvp is virtually non existent unless you are a sissi warrior.
You never change, do you Bean.
1) a bit more... yeah right, add to that the tracking of a mega and a 4th midslot andit's pretty much pwn. There's a REASON why most pvpers fly gallente.
2) Abaddon is tier 3, mega is tier 2. Want to compare the domi<>geddon, mega<>apoc and Hype<>Abaddon. Exactly.
3) and you need to keep running your MWD forever during the fight, just like you need to keep foring lasers.... oh wait... no you don't.
4) that's why most pvpers fly Gallente... or flown it till things got changed a tad and now it's not FOT3Y (flavour of the 3 years) anymore and all of a sudden they 'suck'. Yeah right.
There is nothing wrong with Gallente solo, it's just not as uber as it was. In fleets they have their issues but heaven forbid there's actually limitations to the uber race.
Self-proclaimed idiot
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sophisticatedlimabean
Gallente
Delinquent Habits
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Posted - 2009.03.08 13:12:00 -
[20]
Edited by: sophisticatedlimabean on 08/03/2009 13:15:08
Originally by: Tzar'rim
You never change, do you Bean.
1) a bit more... yeah right, add to that the tracking of a mega and a 4th midslot andit's pretty much pwn. There's a REASON why most pvpers fly gallente.
No i still tell the facts as they are.
The tracking on the mega makes little or no difference when you consider:
1. the available target selection for gunnery BS.
2. In gang combat a ship will be well and truly tackled/webbed anyway.
Originally by: Tzar'rim
2) Abaddon is tier 3, mega is tier 2. Want to compare the domi<>geddon, mega<>apoc and Hype<>Abaddon. Exactly.
So you think comparing ships by a number they have in their titles is more important than comparing their abilities??????...im beginning to see the problem you are suffering from.
Let me guess you think that null and MF are not comparable ammos cos MF is t1 and the other is T2 even though that have very very similar optimal/falloff stats...
Originally by: Tzar'rim
3) and you need to keep running your MWD forever during the fight, just like you need to keep foring lasers.... oh wait... no you don't.
You need to run your mwd alot if you wanna get into range of your targets and do the marginally greater dmg you think is important.
Originally by: Tzar'rim
4) that's why most pvpers fly Gallente... or flown it till things got changed a tad and now it's not FOT3Y (flavour of the 3 years) anymore and all of a sudden they 'suck'. Yeah right.
1. There is a reason why ppl consider the best gallente ship to be the ones that use drones...its cos blasters are very poor.
2. I guess you missed the nano age ect....cos even then blaster ships were useless and the nano ishy was king.
Originally by: Tzar'rim
There is nothing wrong with Gallente solo, it's just not as uber as it was. In fleets they have their issues but heaven forbid there's actually limitations to the uber race.
Solo BS pvp is virtually non-existant on TQ, and the fact that for med sized ship pvp the Auto Cannon fitted myrm is so popular for solo tells a real story about gallente mid class ships...
My views may reflect those of my corp/alliance, but if you wanna know for sure ask em for gods sake. |
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Cohkka
Celestial Apocalypse
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Posted - 2009.03.08 13:14:00 -
[21]
Blasters suck for most gangs, especially if you're in a slowass Brutix. They are great for solo and very small gangsizes if you know what you're doing. They are do or die ships, if you can't do it you die, every time.
Minnis are fun to fly, the damage output isn't very high but they can take on larger numbers and GTFO when needed. Very skill intensive yet very rewarding race. Sadly CCP took away one of their biggest strengths, the Alphastrike, so they are less of a hit and run race. Those were the times, when Minnies got a buff across the board. Miss my old Tempest, 2 volleying a BS with another friends Geddon, one volleying anything Cruisersized, with a bit of luck even HACs.
Well, what you want is propably Amarr. Everything up from HACs is worth flying. You don't have to put up with Missiles if you don't want to. Damage is very high and range is very good, so is tracking. As for speedy ships, only Zealot and the Recons comes to mind. The BS are the most usefull in any gang, though. Binger is propably the best allround BC, very good for solo work, best in gangs.
Don't speak english, just F5, F5, F5... |
arbiter reborn
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Posted - 2009.03.08 13:18:00 -
[22]
ppl seems to forget how bad traking is on amarr ships, if you fit a mostly pointless mwd you loose a web and if your webless you cant even track battleships properly when there close,
also high medrange dps is only really the domain of the geddon as a full passive abaddon does around 600 dps, geddons have alot of restrictions,
i nust say tho i absolutly love amarr always have, but they can be unforgiving to fly solo compared to the utility slot haven that is the tempest (which is ny pick of the solo bss these days, good range and tracking plus nuets and eccm nakes ne a happy nab when i need a change.
as for gallente well i have a bs 5 t2 ogre t2 gun char, for solo ill happily fly any of the bss but the hype and domi are my pick, the mega has always worked best for me with the dual rep electron fit (see farjungs old vids) and now with all the speed changes having all those plates can be clunbersome, yes youl have to work hard in some situations but all races have there downfalls and nothing you fly will work all the time, ned blaster however are very glasscannon like, but who said that wasnt fun just fly t1 and be more balsy, thorax ftw
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heslookinatu
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Posted - 2009.03.08 13:18:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Cohkka
Blasters suck for most gangs, especially if you're in a slowass Brutix. They are great for solo and very small gangsizes if you know what you're doing. They are do or die ships, if you can't do it you die, every time.
Minnis are fun to fly, the damage output isn't very high but they can take on larger numbers and GTFO when needed. Very skill intensive yet very rewarding race. Sadly CCP took away one of their biggest strengths, the Alphastrike, so they are less of a hit and run race. Those were the times, when Minnies got a buff across the board. Miss my old Tempest, 2 volleying a BS with another friends Geddon, one volleying anything Cruisersized, with a bit of luck even HACs.
Well, what you want is propably Amarr. Everything up from HACs is worth flying. You don't have to put up with Missiles if you don't want to. Damage is very high and range is very good, so is tracking. As for speedy ships, only Zealot and the Recons comes to mind. The BS are the most usefull in any gang, though. Binger is propably the best allround BC, very good for solo work, best in gangs.
Thats my issue and the reason for this post, i like the fact ships with varrying range and versatility (why i fly intys).
Amarr isn't really like this however they have some interesting ships : Curse/pilgrim, harbinger, devoter
However Mini has : Vaga, stabber, rupture, munin, the recons (are these any good for solo anymore?)
Difference being the mini has the fun speed woah flying around the battlefield shooting things up and amarr does not.
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Ig Neus
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Posted - 2009.03.08 13:21:00 -
[24]
Quote:
Thoughts? I am basically looking for a good gun race with decently speedy ships and good solo ships (speedy isn't required but it obviously makes it more fun i currently only fly inties)
Guns + Speed + Solo = Minmatar.
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arbiter reborn
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Posted - 2009.03.08 13:23:00 -
[25]
Edited by: arbiter reborn on 08/03/2009 13:25:32
Originally by: heslookinatu
Originally by: Tzar'rim
Edited by: Tzar''rim on 08/03/2009 12:13:52
The only blaster ships that aren't outclassed by other races are really the megathron and taranis. Vexor is better then thorax, ishtar is better then deimos, myrmidon is better then brutix, gallente recons are pretty meh(decent tackler i guess). Arazu is decent solo boat.
Gallente is fine as a whole, the blaster ships are not, they are surpassed by the drone ship in that class almost always.
This was my point, if i am interested in fast gun ships should i switch to mini? or even amarr?
so omg the drone race have great drone ships,,, and has no1 flown the dual rep electron hype latley it fuking rocks for lowsec solo, and isnt as heavily reliant on drones as the mega is so its viable to fly it with meh drone skills
and as for minmitar v amarr 1v1 you do realise the have higher base em thern which makes quite a difference
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Dethuss
Gallente
The Littlest Pwny
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Posted - 2009.03.08 13:26:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Dethuss on 08/03/2009 13:26:38
Min for sure
----------------------
Zomg Penguin |
heslookinatu
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Posted - 2009.03.08 13:28:00 -
[27]
Edited by: heslookinatu on 08/03/2009 13:28:51
Originally by: arbiter reborn
Edited by: arbiter reborn on 08/03/2009 13:27:57
Edited by: arbiter reborn on 08/03/2009 13:25:32
Originally by: heslookinatu
Originally by: Tzar'rim
Edited by: Tzar''rim on 08/03/2009 12:13:52
The only blaster ships that aren't outclassed by other races are really the megathron and taranis. Vexor is better then thorax, ishtar is better then deimos, myrmidon is better then brutix, gallente recons are pretty meh(decent tackler i guess). Arazu is decent solo boat.
Gallente is fine as a whole, the blaster ships are not, they are surpassed by the drone ship in that class almost always.
This was my point, if i am interested in fast gun ships should i switch to mini? or even amarr?
so omg the drone race have great drone ships,,, and has no1 flown the dual rep electron hype latley it fuking rocks for lowsec solo, and isnt as heavily reliant on drones as the mega is so its viable to fly it with meh drone skills
and as for minmitar v amarr 1v1 you do realise the have higher base em thern which makes quite a difference
oh and minne recons suck balls even the arazu is better,,
oh and no1s mentioned the sader,,
also have you thought about a blaster rokh, if you can role with shield youll love it
I am coming back after a break when galente was the fast gunship race.
Since they are no longer this, i am speccing for minie :D
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Tzar'rim
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Posted - 2009.03.08 13:31:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Tzar''rim on 08/03/2009 13:32:52
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean
OMG MY RACE SUCKS
1) that's a turret issue, want to chat about how well a turret Minnie BS holds up on fleets, regarding tanking, sniping and dps?
2) tracking=damage
You started comparing ships, not me. I merely pointed out that you compared the amarr one with the most slots to the Gallente one with the least, if you don't like being called on that don't bring it up.
Your ammo rambling is baseless and wrong, but keep the insults coming
You only need to run your MWD if you fit for silly short range, where you CAN do massive damage. If you use different ammo/setup (which incidentally the mega's tracking helps coping with) it's not that bad. Ofcourse it's never going to be like Amarr but then amarr doesn't have a lot of the options Gallente has and they have their own issues. If you want uberness in every situation go play CS with an aimbot.
That's funky, so you mean that megas and hypes are now so useles you never see them anymore, your insults keep missing btw.
So, it doesn't tell why they use a myrm (Gallente ship btw) over, lets say, Amarr, caldari or Minnie Mid class ships? It just tells about how bad Gallente turret ships are, not the other turret ships. right.. right?
Self-proclaimed idiot
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heslookinatu
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Posted - 2009.03.08 13:35:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Tzar'rim
Edited by: Tzar''rim on 08/03/2009 13:32:52
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean
OMG MY RACE SUCKS
1) that's a turret issue, want to chat about how well a turret Minnie BS holds up on fleets, regarding tanking, sniping and dps?
2) tracking=damage
You started comparing ships, not me. I merely pointed out that you compared the amarr one with the most slots to the Gallente one with the least, if you don't like being called on that don't bring it up.
Your ammo rambling is baseless and wrong, but keep the insults coming
You only need to run your MWD if you fit for silly short range, where you CAN do massive damage. If you use different ammo/setup (which incidentally the mega's tracking helps coping with) it's not that bad. Ofcourse it's never going to be like Amarr but then amarr doesn't have a lot of the options Gallente has and they have their own issues. If you want uberness in every situation go play CS with an aimbot.
That's funky, so you mean that megas and hypes are now so useles you never see them anymore, your insults keep missing btw.
So, it doesn't tell why they use a myrm (Gallente ship btw) over, lets say, Amarr, caldari or Minnie Mid class ships? It just tells about how bad Gallente turret ships are, not the other turret ships. right.. right?
But ignoring the missed point of the thread judging from what i have said you think min is the best choice for me?
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arbiter reborn
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Posted - 2009.03.08 13:37:00 -
[30]
minmitar bss generally only work well small gang, all races have good and bad hacs (cept amarr ofc_ dont think that training minnie will make you usefull in any big fleet situation over gallente,
lol artilleries
lol who needs utility slots in big fleets,
oh and lol nisleeding eft stats cos fallof,
for sniping its rokh and apoc all the way there are no conpetitors in the 240 gun game
and srsly blaster rokh
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Tzar'rim
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Posted - 2009.03.08 13:45:00 -
[31]
Originally by: heslookinatu
Originally by: Tzar'rim
Edited by: Tzar''rim on 08/03/2009 13:32:52
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean
OMG MY RACE SUCKS
1) that's a turret issue, want to chat about how well a turret Minnie BS holds up on fleets, regarding tanking, sniping and dps?
2) tracking=damage
You started comparing ships, not me. I merely pointed out that you compared the amarr one with the most slots to the Gallente one with the least, if you don't like being called on that don't bring it up.
Your ammo rambling is baseless and wrong, but keep the insults coming
You only need to run your MWD if you fit for silly short range, where you CAN do massive damage. If you use different ammo/setup (which incidentally the mega's tracking helps coping with) it's not that bad. Ofcourse it's never going to be like Amarr but then amarr doesn't have a lot of the options Gallente has and they have their own issues. If you want uberness in every situation go play CS with an aimbot.
That's funky, so you mean that megas and hypes are now so useles you never see them anymore, your insults keep missing btw.
So, it doesn't tell why they use a myrm (Gallente ship btw) over, lets say, Amarr, caldari or Minnie Mid class ships? It just tells about how bad Gallente turret ships are, not the other turret ships. right.. right?
But ignoring the missed point of the thread judging from what i have said you think min is the best choice for me?
I did state that a few posts up before LimaWhiningBean came along again in his usual manner :)
Quote:
Yes, if you want the fast "w00000000h!!" combat style Minnie is the way to go
Self-proclaimed idiot
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sophisticatedlimabean
Gallente
Delinquent Habits
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Posted - 2009.03.08 13:48:00 -
[32]
Edited by: sophisticatedlimabean on 08/03/2009 13:53:58
Originally by: Tzar'rim
So, it doesn't tell why they use a myrm (Gallente ship btw) over, lets say, Amarr, caldari or Minnie Mid class ships? It just tells about how bad Gallente turret ships are, not the other turret ships. right.. right?
PPL use the myrm cos of its drone ability and they use Auto Cannons cos blasters suck oh and the myrm is not really a blaster ship as it has no gun bonus for them, that is why ppl use AC as they are a better option than blasters.
heslookinatu fly mini or amarr depending on the make up of your corps gangs, mini tend to use speed while amarr tend to use range....
My views may reflect those of my corp/alliance, but if you wanna know for sure ask em for gods sake. |
Tzar'rim
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Posted - 2009.03.08 13:59:00 -
[33]
Your point was that people use a myrm because gallente turrets suck, instead of making the unbiased and objective statement that people choose a myrm because they prefer it over ALL turret ships, not just the Gallente ones.
For some reason you fail to (want to) understand that things have pros and cons on purpose and that it's our job to work around the cons which with Gallente turretships is perfectly doable. And that, ofcourse, the only way to play EVE is your way, cause any other situation or useage doesn't exist... at all... ever. If only people would stop fitting and thinking the old way.
Self-proclaimed idiot
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sophisticatedlimabean
Gallente
Delinquent Habits
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Posted - 2009.03.08 14:07:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Tzar'rim
Your point was that people use a myrm because gallente turrets suck, instead of making the unbiased and objective statement that people choose a myrm because they prefer it over ALL turret ships, not just the Gallente ones.
That is because they do not choose it over ALL others, i certainly see more harbingers than myrms about tbh, the cane is also a very popular ship as well.
Originally by: Tzar'rim
For some reason you fail to (want to) understand that things have pros and cons on purpose and that it's our job to work around the cons which with Gallente turretships is perfectly doable.
When the most popular mid sized T1 gallente ship is the myrm and the turrets ppl prefer to use on it are Auto Cannons it is plain to all there is a problem with blasters.
My views may reflect those of my corp/alliance, but if you wanna know for sure ask em for gods sake. |
Cohkka
Celestial Apocalypse
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Posted - 2009.03.08 14:13:00 -
[35]
Originally by: heslookinatu
Thats my issue and the reason for this post, i like the fact ships with varrying range and versatility (why i fly intys).
Amarr isn't really like this however they have some interesting ships : Curse/pilgrim, harbinger, devoter
However Mini has : Vaga, stabber, rupture, munin, the recons (are these any good for solo anymore?)
Difference being the mini has the fun speed woah flying around the battlefield shooting things up and amarr does not.
If you want to zoom around a BF and shoot things up your only possible role is anti-support, only ship really suited for this is the Vaga... but then you can do the same in a Zealot with a much greater range flexability. Point is, when your vaga is tackled you're dead, a Zealot can pick off targets from distance and it can shoot the primary with very good DPS. Range is the new nano. There is a niche for Vagas, it's not in fights with resonably sized gangs though, id rather have another BS than another Vaga in my gang.
If you want to deal lots of damage you won't fly fast ships anyway. So might as well get an Amarr one. Again the most flexible of all BS merly due to Mega Pulse. Harbinger has the same stregths.
Don't get me wrong. Minmatar is a great race. I like their philosophy and been flying them 3 years with maxed skills. Just in todays combat enviroment their roles are very limited, all the changes in the past have worked against them. The cap/hp buff, the speed/web nerf and the Pulse tracking buff all limited their abilitys. Munnin is up there with the Deimos, competing on who's the worst HAC. Rupture is great but I wouldn't fly it unless I'm broke, that counts even more for the Stabber.
If you're absolutely sure about Minni, then go for it, you'll have a great time if you put in the effort. But don't do it for the wrong reasons.
Don't speak english, just F5, F5, F5... |
Shan'Talasha Mea'Questa
Minmatar
The Perfect Harvesting Experience
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Posted - 2009.03.08 14:18:00 -
[36]
Have you tried Rails instead of Blasters for fleet/gang-ops and keep the Blasters for the "Not-In-The-Face" solo-fun ?
-----------------------------------------------
Originally by: Paper
Rock's fine, nerf Scissors
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Thercon Jair
Minmatar
InQuest Ascension
Skunk-Works
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Posted - 2009.03.08 14:40:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Shan'Talasha Mea'Questa
Have you tried Rails instead of Blasters for fleet/gang-ops and keep the Blasters for the "Not-In-The-Face" solo-fun ?
Quite exactly this. I'm only using ACs in small gangs for the same reasons you should be using Blasters only in small gang. If you get in close on the main target, inside the bubble in any bigger fight, the hostile support calls you primary and melts you way. And not even the Vaga will make it out with sufficient damage on it.
So, fit rails to your gallente turret ships, and avoid the drone ships for bigger fleets, as you will most likely lose them very quickly (the drones that is). Brutix makes for a nice railboat, thorax too. Mega, Hyperion, Deimos... (oh noes, it's the worst HAC along with the muninn.. probably because some of its DPS are drones. But you can laugh at the other HACs if an inty gets inside your gang, because they don't have drones for point defense)
And about Blasters sucking: have you seen how most Mega pilots operate? Approach with MWD, overload web, web down, turn on guns, see your opponent die. What's wrong wiht it? Probably that you have like 3km optimal or so, yet you hump the other ship, and then ask yourself why your weapons are ****. Oh, wait, what? If you put 0m distance into the tracking equation it gives you "infinite transversal", which equals into "no hits at all". But most people, sadly, don't understand those intricacies. As a minnie pilot I always had to obey to those intricacies as discarding them lead to a quick death. It's now just so that this is now also true for gallente.
Real men do it the hard way: fly Minmatar! |
Esmenet
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.03.08 14:50:00 -
[38]
Unless you are one of those "solo" pvp'ers (with 2+ accounts for your scout alts and falcon etc alts) there isnt really any reason to train blasters.
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Stuart Price
Caldari
The Black Rabbits
The Gurlstas Associates
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Posted - 2009.03.08 15:02:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Esmenet
Unless you are one of those "solo" pvp'ers (with 2+ accounts for your scout alts and falcon etc alts) there isnt really any reason to train blasters.
The Taranis and Rokh disagree with you.
Putting the 'irate' into 'Pirate' |
Psiri
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Posted - 2009.03.08 16:38:00 -
[40]
Small blasters are top notch, excellent tracking and good damage. Even got nice ships to put them on!
Medium blasters are mainly suffering from having a weak selection of hybrid bonused ships. The Brutix is quite good though, Brutix + ECM drones and a 20m pricetag = win.
Large blasters pretty much suck, you can make them work on a Mega but it's not really worth it. Fortunately the Domi is just awesome so screw anything else, all hail Gallente!
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Ig Neus
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Posted - 2009.03.08 17:08:00 -
[41]
Edited by: Ig Neus on 08/03/2009 17:14:31
This is out of topic but I have to say it. While I fully understand that heslookinatu wants a "gun" race and Gallente are not one, I have to say that they still are the best solo race in most cases.
Just start thinking of ship classes and pick best soloer that comes to your mind. Check how many Gallente ships come up there... In fact, if we stick to relatively small things (Frigate/Cruiser size), Gallente probably win in all categories except T1 Frigates and Recons...
Those ships are great for small gangs as well. For larger things, well, we have Megathron :) |
Graalum
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.03.08 17:09:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Esmenet
Unless you are one of those "solo" pvp'ers (with 2+ accounts for your scout alts and falcon etc alts) there isnt really any reason to train blasters.
or if you frequently shoot down cynojammers  |
Trader20
|
Posted - 2009.03.08 18:15:00 -
[43]
Originally by: heslookinatu
Edited by: heslookinatu on 08/03/2009 12:08:46
I have been finding lately that no fleets are wanting the blaster ships, the deimos is next to useless compared to other HAC's, the brutix is outclassed by other BC's, thorax is meh etc.
Is it in my best interest to train for the stabber/vaga/munin or amarr if i am more interested in using guns and high dps?
The vaga and stabber look like very fun ships to fly, pilgrim looks awesome, hurricane looks fun etc.
Thoughts? I am basically looking for a good gun race with decently speedy ships and good solo ships (speedy isn't required but it obviously makes it more fun i currently only fly inties)
obvious answer is obvious, just fly mim
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vostok
Minmatar
Shadow of xXDEATHXx
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Posted - 2009.03.08 19:38:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Tzar'rim
Edited by: Tzar''rim on 08/03/2009 12:19:34
There's a whole lot of BS in this threat (and in general from the Gallente Whining Crew), the facts are that blasters are short range but then do amazing dps while at the same time have the mid/low slots to tank and tackle. In fleets this isn't used too much as, generally, targets tend to be at 10-20km (gate combat) and you have dedicated tacklers.
The culprit really is in passive EHP tanking, fleets like BS's with a ton of armor who don't have to tackle or anything but just do damage, Amarr fits that nicely as they're not exactly mobile, have the low slots to put in damagemods and a good tank and do good damage at range. But lack the midslots to be versatile/solo. And in fleets you don't neccesarily HAVE to be versatile if you have enough numbers and dedicated ships/roles.
Would passive tanking not work too well then all of a sudden they's have to active tank more which means they'll need more midslots to counter the insane cap use of running reppers+firing lasers.
The effect is that heavily tanked ships are quite immobile which hurts short range ships even MORE, ofcourse blasters pilots could use different ammo/turrets/modules to make up for the range issue but that would lower their OMFGWTFPWN damage and would require thinking, so that won't go well with the EFT crowd. At the same time they still think that they all should fit long range points and then complain that they can't hit stuff upclose due to the webbing changes and people MWDing away/around them.
What it REALLY comes down to is that for a long, long LONG time Gallente was the BEST, no contest. They had massive damage, they had massive dronespace, uber ships and with the 90% webs, once they cought someone upclose they'd just laugh as they melted them away in seconds. And NOW they've been toned down a bit, to be more in line with other races but they're STILL very good, they're STILL very much capable of going solo and they STILL perform in fleets, as long as people stop whining about how it was in the past and would finally adapt to the current situation!
Which ofcourse won't happen cause they went from uber to less uber so now Gallente 'sucks'. It comes down to your playing style, Gallente does massive damage at short range in a very agressive/in your face kind of way. If you like that approach you'll make it work, if you're looking for FOTM I'd suggest you train the crappiest race cause when you have the SP it'll be changed again.
Well read a few of your posts and decided to reply to this one, I'm most bothered that you seem to think blasters do good damage. And while this is fine for the theory of blasters, ie they have short range but very high damage, the fact is amarr and caldari can do 90% of the damage at over twice the range, most BS can lose a med for a point and can survive without a web since most the time they wont be shooting stuff at 2km away.
Just for example without drones (and you have mentioned the disadvantages of drones already) a torp raven can pretty much match DPS figures of a megathron and deal that damage at over twice the range without having issues of tracking (not to mention javelin torps and damage selection) and its the same for amarr ships.
Anyway, coming back to the OP. I would say gallente small ships are good for cheap shots of DPS, which makes the diemost totally useless.
You charge in, deal lots of dps and then will likely die horribly.
Oh, should add, gallente T2 is almost completely useless IMO.
- Adaptation is not an excuse for lack of ballance! -
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Johan Price
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Posted - 2009.03.08 20:32:00 -
[45]
What a faillllllllllllll thread.
He already answered his own question in the OP.
OP complains about Gallente, wants a different race.
Someone suggests Amarr, he says he doesn't want FOTM.
Someone suggests Caldari, says it isn't what he's looking for.
Hey guess what, there's only Minmatar left.
Gallente whine thread in disguise.
And dammit, I just got trolled
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Jason Marshall
Gallente
Hammer Of Light
Libertas Fidelitas
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Posted - 2009.03.08 20:39:00 -
[46]
I use rail guns with high damage ammo...
Tacky Lensflares in sigs ftw
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Koloch
Amarr
Warriors Lost
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Posted - 2009.03.08 20:58:00 -
[47]
op: "should I give up on blasters?"
possibly...it sounds like you trained the wrong race.
blasters do need a little boost in damage, BUT that isn't going to change your situation. Blasters have never been and never will be medium-long range weapons. Variation in the races is important. Unfortunately there are a lot of people trying to flatten this instead of balance the races in their spec'd area.
minmatar is the way to go. It's funny to see a lot of the pro Amarr pilots switching out to minmatar ships these days...though having said that you see a lot of the small gang pilots moving from amarr to gallente.
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Tzar'rim
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Posted - 2009.03.08 21:51:00 -
[48]
Edited by: Tzar''rim on 08/03/2009 21:56:37
Originally by: vostok
Valid points brought in a reasonable manner.
Thing is that you're saying "blasters are not the best and don't do well in certain situations" and this if ofcourse true but then that goes for everyone, besides there's nothing wrong with not being the best. Perhaps you've been used to being best for a long time but that means 3 others are worse, now it has changed a bit but it's still not the worst.
Each race has their problems, want to talk about how well a Mael or Tempest stacks up in fleet combat, or for sniping? Or how well a Raven does in a predominantly armor RR environment? Or how a geddon has solo problems due to it's midslots? Perhaps talk about how Caldari turret boats have to cope with short range high dps as they lack dps themselves and need their midslots for tanking so they can't control the fight?
There's more than fleet shortrange combat where you have tacklers everywhere. In a lot of situations a blasterboat (if setup with QR in mind) does quite well. Ofcourse I understand that things aren't amazing right now for blasterboats but I'm QUITE sure that before these changes Mega pilots have been laughing their asses off at those silly Amarr users who kept true to their race before they got buffed and had to wait 3 years for it, or raven pilots (pre torp change) who you could just melt and ofcourse the same for Minnie BS's. Did Gallente 'cry' for changes and balance then?
Things change, sometimes you're top dog and sometimes you're not, deal with it. BS wise Gallente is still not last, that spot is firmly in the hands of Minmatar.
Self-proclaimed idiot
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sophisticatedlimabean
Gallente
Delinquent Habits
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Posted - 2009.03.08 22:10:00 -
[49]
Edited by: sophisticatedlimabean on 08/03/2009 22:14:30
Originally by: Tzar'rim
Thing is that you're saying "blasters are not the best and don't do well in certain situations" and this if ofcourse true but then that goes for everyone, besides there's nothing wrong with not being the best. Perhaps you've been used to being best for a long time but that means 3 others are worse, now it has changed a bit but it's still not the worst.
You seem to want to put words into ppls mouths and also seem to think that gallente have been/were top dogs in pvp for years, so maybe you need a education in how races, ships and systems compare now and in the past.
Originally by: Tzar'rim
Each race has their problems, want to talk about how well a Mael or Tempest stacks up in fleet combat, or for sniping?
Or how a geddon has solo problems due to it's midslots?
You show that mini AS A RACE do not have a good sniper BS.
Then you purposefully pick the geddon for solo and say "hey look we suck at solo" when the baddon has the same amount of mids as the mega, and not only that but solo/1 v 1 BS pvp is a virtually non existent form of PVP on TQ, so gallente BS being marginally better at it is irrelevant anyway.
You have no idea about the past if you think gallente ruled it for years, and you have no idea about the present if you think blasters (especially BS blasters) are fine.
My views may reflect those of my corp/alliance, but if you wanna know for sure ask em for gods sake. |
Tzar'rim
|
Posted - 2009.03.08 23:01:00 -
[50]
Edited by: Tzar''rim on 08/03/2009 23:05:29
Here, made a nice comparison between the different BS's, please show me where Gallente snipers are worse off than Minmatar ones. Fitting obviously includes MWD.
Tempest 150km:
target range 157
scan res 162
356@146 optimal
tracking 0.004 (0.01 tracking with short range faction ammo)
no tank
needs ACR
Tempest 200km
Impossible unless at more than 1x falloff (ie useless)
Maelstrom 150km
target range 153
scan res 184
380@146 optimal
tracking 0.004 (0.01 tracking with short range faction ammo)
can fit some passive tank or fit ECCM/more sensor boosters
needs ACR
Maelstrom 200km
Impossible unless at more than 1x falloff (ie useless)
Mega 150km:
target range 182
scan res 154
351@159 optimal
tracking 0.005 (0.02 tracking with short range faction ammo and an assload of damage)
No need for ACR
HAS 3 EMPTY LOW SLOTS FOR EITHER TANK, SIG AMPS, 4th MAGSTAB OR LOW SLOT ECCM
Mega 200km:
target range 220
scan res 190
351@189 optimal (30km falloff)
tracking 0.005 (0.02 tracking with short range faction ammo and an assload of damage)
No need for ACR
Hype 150km
target range 151
scan res 178
401@149 optimal
tracking 0.003 (0.01 tracking with short range faction ammo and an assload of damage)
needs ACR
HAS 2 EMPTY MIDSLOTS FOR SENSOR BOOSTERS OR ECCM
HAS 2 EMPTY LOW SLOTS FOR EITHER TANK, SIG AMPS, 4th MAGSTAB OR LOW SLOT ECCM
Hype 200km
target range 213
scan res 178
401@192 optimal (30km falloff)
tracking 0.003 (0.01 tracking with short range faction ammo and an assload of damage)
needs ACR
Self-proclaimed idiot
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Koloch
Amarr
Warriors Lost
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Posted - 2009.03.08 23:08:00 -
[51]
Edited by: Koloch on 08/03/2009 23:11:57
@sophisticatedlimabean
Yes Gallente have been up and down the power chart since the beginning, but they have never been the worse.
Gallente are the only race that have ships that don't need to rely on guns for dps. Before the nos nerf you would see domi's with all of their high slots filled with nos. A jammer in the mids and see them take on 2-3x times their numbers. Or the EOS before the drone nerf. Nano Ishtar's with OrgeIIs. Gallente had the most flexible ships for pvp hands down, and this went on for quite awhile.
..oh and people fit autocannons to a mirm not because blasters suck, but because it gets enough dps from it's drones that the extra cap that is gained from using capless weapons is a bigger bonus to it's tank.
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sophisticatedlimabean
Gallente
Delinquent Habits
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Posted - 2009.03.08 23:26:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Tzar'rim
Here, made a nice comparison between the different BS's, please show me where Gallente snipers are worse off than Minmatar ones. Fitting obviously includes MWD.
Who said anyhing about gallente snipers being worse than mini snipers??????...mini have the worst BS snipers in the game.
I was pointing out your obvious manipulation of using firstly the fact that mini suck at sniping NO MATTER THE BS YOU CHOOSE and then using a geddon as a example of amarr being poor at solo pvp cos of its lack of mids when:
1. abaddon has 4 mids so would be a far better choice for a solo BS if you are amarr skilled.
2. and MOST OF ALL 1 v 1 and solo BS pvp is virtually non existent.
You lie, play with words and manipulate or ignore facts to suit your purposes.
My views may reflect those of my corp/alliance, but if you wanna know for sure ask em for gods sake. |
Tzar'rim
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Posted - 2009.03.08 23:32:00 -
[53]
Edited by: Tzar''rim on 08/03/2009 23:33:25
Small roaming gangs with BS don't happen? High sec wardecs with BS's don't happen? Pirates in low sec camping with BS don't happen?
I'm not twisting anything, you're going "OMG BLASTERS ARE THE SUXXOR WE CAN'T KILL ANYTHING, AND THIS HAS ALWAYS BEEN THE CASE. GALLENTE NEVER WAS ANY GOOD AT ALL". and I'm going "errr, sure it has it's downsides but it's surely not the worst and you've been having your glory days so suck it up".
Btw, about the playing with words part; I know you longer/better than you might realise and I just have to laugh at you pointing fingers at others in this respect.
Self-proclaimed idiot
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sophisticatedlimabean
Gallente
Delinquent Habits
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Posted - 2009.03.08 23:36:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Koloch
Gallente are the only race that have ships that don't need to rely on guns for dps. Before the nos nerf you would see domi's with all of their high slots filled with nos. A jammer in the mids and see them take on 2-3x times their numbers. Or the EOS before the drone nerf. Nano Ishtar's with OrgeIIs. Gallente had the most flexible ships for pvp hands down, and this went on for quite awhile.
I dunno if you noticed bud but:
1. NOS, EOS and drones got nerfed.
2. We are talking about blaster problems not drone ships.
Originally by: Koloch
..oh and people fit autocannons to a mirm not because blasters suck, but because it gets enough dps from it's drones that the extra cap that is gained from using capless weapons is a bigger bonus to it's tank.
Spin it how you like but the fact is that if blasters were as good as the ppl on here (who just happen to be mostly amarr skilled surprise surprise) claim then myrm pilots would use them instead of AC.
My views may reflect those of my corp/alliance, but if you wanna know for sure ask em for gods sake. |
sophisticatedlimabean
Gallente
Delinquent Habits
|
Posted - 2009.03.08 23:42:00 -
[55]
Edited by: sophisticatedlimabean on 08/03/2009 23:46:05
Originally by: Tzar'rim
Small roaming gangs with BS don't happen? High sec wardecs with BS's don't happen? Pirates in low sec camping with BS don't happen?
Who says they do not happen i was talking about solo and 1 v 1 are you blind or just ignoring the inconvenient facts AGAIN?.
Originally by: Tzar'rim
I'm not twisting anything, you're going "OMG BLASTERS ARE THE SUXXOR WE CAN'T KILL ANYTHING, AND THIS HAS ALWAYS BEEN THE CASE. GALLENTE NEVER WAS ANY GOOD AT ALL".
STFU or find me quoting exactly that fool....see lies, exaggeration, misquotes and manipulation.
Originally by: Tzar'rim
Btw, about the playing with words part; I know you longer/better than you might realise and I just have to laugh at you pointing fingers at others in this respect.
You may think you know me but you know nothing of the problems blasters have, you and others even need to use examples of prenerf drone ships to try and make feeble points when we are talking about blaster NOW.
My views may reflect those of my corp/alliance, but if you wanna know for sure ask em for gods sake. |
Koloch
Amarr
Warriors Lost
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Posted - 2009.03.08 23:49:00 -
[56]
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean
Originally by: Koloch
Gallente are the only race that have ships that don't need to rely on guns for dps. Before the nos nerf you would see domi's with all of their high slots filled with nos. A jammer in the mids and see them take on 2-3x times their numbers. Or the EOS before the drone nerf. Nano Ishtar's with OrgeIIs. Gallente had the most flexible ships for pvp hands down, and this went on for quite awhile.
I dunno if you noticed bud but:
1. NOS, EOS and drones got nerfed.
2. We are talking about blaster problems not drone ships.
Originally by: Koloch
..oh and people fit autocannons to a mirm not because blasters suck, but because it gets enough dps from it's drones that the extra cap that is gained from using capless weapons is a bigger bonus to it's tank.
Spin it how you like but the fact is that if blasters were as good as the ppl on here (who just happen to be mostly amarr skilled surprise surprise) claim then myrm pilots would use them instead of AC.
short term memory problem?
you asked "when" was Gallente ever overpowered. if your stupid enough to not realize that this was a reply to that question then I seriously feel sorry for you.
I am spec'ed in Gallente. Take your emo crap somewhere else.
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sophisticatedlimabean
Gallente
Delinquent Habits
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Posted - 2009.03.08 23:55:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Koloch
short term memory problem?
you asked "when" was Gallente ever overpowered. if your stupid enough to not realize that this was a reply to that question then I seriously feel sorry for you.
I am spec'ed in Gallente. Take your emo crap somewhere else.
Are you another liar or do you just hear voices?.
Show me in this thread where i asked you or anybody else for that matter to show me "when" gallente were overpowered....looks like you are the stupid one and not only that but a stupid liar as well.
Take your lies elsewhere.
My views may reflect those of my corp/alliance, but if you wanna know for sure ask em for gods sake. |
Kingwood
Amarr
Defile.
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Posted - 2009.03.08 23:58:00 -
[58]
Lots of whining about blasters in this thread.
To the OP: Skill for specific ships you want to fly, regardless of race. This is what I'm doing, and what I think is the best approach. Every race has ships which fit your playstyle. For me, since I mostly fly solo or in 1-3 man gangs I'm skilling now for the Ishtar and Arazu (no big deal, already have HAC and Recon 5), Cyclone (yeah, it's pretty awesome and totally underestimated), Rapier and Vaga. It will take longer if you don't have the support skills already, but it is ultimately way more rewarding than speccing in an entire race.
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Koloch
Amarr
Warriors Lost
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Posted - 2009.03.09 00:34:00 -
[59]
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean
..you seem to think that gallente have been/were top dogs in BS pvp for years, so maybe you need a education in how races, ships and systems compare now and in the past.
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean
You have no idea about the past if you think gallente ruled it for years...
You deny that Gallente were overpowered. It's implied that you want proof for this overpowered phase in Gallente's history re: When?
Looks like you are the fool.
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Ig Neus
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Posted - 2009.03.09 00:45:00 -
[60]
@sophisticatedlimabean
Quote:
You may think you know me but you know nothing of the problems blasters have, you and others even need to use examples of prenerf drone ships to try and make feeble points when we are talking about blaster NOW.
Blasters are a weapon system. Like any other weapon system, it is supposed to be used on some ships. Those ships are generally Gallente boats that need their Drones in order to shine. What I mean is that, even on Blaster boats, Drones are an important factor. For example, on a Plated Thorax with Medium Electrons (one of the best T1 Cruisers imo), the ability to carry 5 Hammerheads II or 5 medium ECM Drones (while most Cruisers have half the drone bay) is one of its biggest advantages.
Other than that, every race has its advantages and disadvantages. Gallente boats will do (with a few exceptions) top DPS for their class. They will also have respectable tanks, but they will be close range ships. Nothing new here.
By the way, there is a reason that Abaddon is a Tier 3 BS and Megathron is Tier 2. You should not really compare them. In case you do not understand why, can you think of any Tier 1 Battlecruiser that is generally better than any Tier 2 one? (Yes I agree that Hyperion needs a buff)
All in all, Gallente have the best solo ships in most classes, are really good for small-medium gangs and they have a nice fleet Battleship (Megathron). They are not, and they should not be, best at everything.
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heslookinatu
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Posted - 2009.03.09 00:54:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Ig Neus
@sophisticatedlimabean
Quote:
You may think you know me but you know nothing of the problems blasters have, you and others even need to use examples of prenerf drone ships to try and make feeble points when we are talking about blaster NOW.
Blasters are a weapon system. Like any other weapon system, it is supposed to be used on some ships. Those ships are generally Gallente boats that need their Drones in order to shine. What I mean is that, even on Blaster boats, Drones are an important factor. For example, on a Plated Thorax with Medium Electrons (one of the best T1 Cruisers imo), the ability to carry 5 Hammerheads II or 5 medium ECM Drones (while most Cruisers have half the drone bay) is one of its biggest advantages.
Other than that, every race has its advantages and disadvantages. Gallente boats will do (with a few exceptions) top DPS for their class. They will also have respectable tanks, but they will be close range ships. Nothing new here.
By the way, there is a reason that Abaddon is a Tier 3 BS and Megathron is Tier 2. You should not really compare them. In case you do not understand why, can you think of any Tier 1 Battlecruiser that is generally better than any Tier 2 one? (Yes I agree that Hyperion needs a buff)
All in all, Gallente have the best solo ships in most classes, are really good for small-medium gangs and they have a nice fleet Battleship (Megathron). They are not, and they should not be, best at everything.
My issue is, as far as gunships are concerned gallente do not really shine.
That being said, which ships of minmatar are worth flying? Before i refocus my training which of the minnie ships would be brought over gallente for the most part or are on par with them.
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Tzar'rim
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Posted - 2009.03.09 01:21:00 -
[62]
Edited by: Tzar''rim on 09/03/2009 01:25:22
Rifter, rupture, cane, Typhoon, stiletto, vaga, recons. First two don't cut it in serious stuff in fleets etc (unless ofc you're in a cruiser gang). Cane is a good BC in the way that it's damage is decent while having 2 high slots for either missiles or neuts. Some people shield tank them gank-style, most people armor plate them.
Typhoon is best used as a passive EHP tanked torp+neut ship. Stiletto is a tackler, best ingame but don't expect to kill anything. Vaga is good at running away and doing decent damage. Recons can solo if faced with turret ships or small crap.
Compared to what you're used to you lose massive tank and dps, you gain some range (but dps drops even more), speed, agility and a smaller sign. res. Instead of "hit aprroach, fire weapons, apply web) you will now actually have to pilot, if you fail, are unlucky , lag or outsmarted (or in a fleet) your lack of gank+tank means you'll get spanked.
Self-proclaimed idiot
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EFT Warrior
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Posted - 2009.03.09 01:26:00 -
[63]
People tend to underestimate battleships of all races, especially Minmatar and Caldari, as they can fit mean buffer or active tanks (Maelstrom in particular can get a very good shield tank due to bonus, with the Rokh or Raven better off with a buffer getting remote reps). The catch is you have to have someone tackle for you instead, but if you're soloing in a battleship, you're doing it wrong.
Actually if you're soloing at all you're doing it wrong.
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Trade Brah
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Posted - 2009.03.09 01:32:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Tzar'rim
Instead of "hit aprroach, fire weapons, apply web) you will now actually have to pilot, if you fail, are unlucky , lag, are outsmarted or are in a fleet your lack of gank+tank means you'll get spanked.
gotta love all the arrogant minmatar pilots thinking that they win because of 'skill' while flying the 'nerfed' race
especially the vaga pilots that usually end up bailing once they start getting their asses kicked
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Tzar'rim
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Posted - 2009.03.09 01:36:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Trade Brah
Originally by: Tzar'rim
Instead of "hit aprroach, fire weapons, apply web) you will now actually have to pilot, if you fail, are unlucky , lag, are outsmarted or are in a fleet your lack of gank+tank means you'll get spanked.
gotta love all the arrogant minmatar pilots thinking that they win because of 'skill' while flying the 'nerfed' race
especially the vaga pilots that usually end up bailing once they start getting their asses kicked
Yup, you just proved my point.
Self-proclaimed idiot
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Ig Neus
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Posted - 2009.03.09 01:57:00 -
[66]
Originally by: heslookinatu
My issue is, as far as gunships are concerned gallente do not really shine.
That being said, which ships of minmatar are worth flying? Before i refocus my training which of the minnie ships would be brought over gallente for the most part or are on par with them.
Well, I still prefer Thorax (=gunsip) to any other ship of its class. Same thing for Blasteranis and Ishkur (I know it is considered a drone ship but still most of its damage comes from its blasters). Brutix is the most used Tier 1 BC and Megathron is one of the best Battleships. One could say that there are nice blaster ships at all classes.
Anyway, Minmatar ships are much closer to what you asked for at first post. Since you come from Gallente I suppose you'd want to stick to the Armor Tanking ones, so Rifter, Rupture, Hurricane, Typhoon are the most logical choices. On the other hand the two Minmatar ships I'd really love to fly are Vagabond and Maelstrom and they are both Shield Tanks :p
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Deschenus Maximus
Amarr
Digital Fury Corporation
Digital Renegades
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Posted - 2009.03.09 03:16:00 -
[67]
As someone who can basically fly everything sub-cap in game, it boils down to this for me:
Want solo/small gang? Go minnie
Want med/large gang? Go Amarr
Want to mission? Go Caldari
want to be able to do a bit of everything, albeit in a mostly substandard manner? Go Gallente
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heslookinatu
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Posted - 2009.03.09 03:25:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Deschenus Maximus
As someone who can basically fly everything sub-cap in game, it boils down to this for me:
Want solo/small gang? Go minnie
Want med/large gang? Go Amarr
Want to mission? Go Caldari
want to be able to do a bit of everything, albeit in a mostly substandard manner? Go Gallente
This is basically exactly what i was looking for.
If this is true then mini is the way for me to go
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Douchebag Bob
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Posted - 2009.03.09 04:11:00 -
[69]
Thorax, excellent solo cruiser if u know what u do. good for same reason in gang also.
Brutix, cheap and really efficcient gank-machine. Throw a plate in the mix and it even survives long enough sometimes. Plus, it can be fitted as a cheap and good anti-supportship.
Megathron, still my first love. Oh the moments we have shared both before and after blaster nerf.
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Cohkka
Celestial Apocalypse
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Posted - 2009.03.09 04:25:00 -
[70]
Most people seem delusional about Gallente pwning everything in the past. Maybe too many solovideos of Gallente pilots clouded your sight. Tempest always was superior in the aspect of solowork, it's only when you put an assload of money into the tank of a Blasterthron when it really shines, because it'll negate very little damage at close ranges. The only Blasterboat I'd cosider remotely superior is the Taranis, and even that is disputeable. Rails give closerange Intys a run for their money.
Not sure if I should expect anything to change. When Ravens did as much damage as a Blasterthron at huge ranges without tracking/speed issues, noone but Blasterpilots gave a **** about it (I was just a spectator back then). It turned for the better in the end but hardly because CCP have a spot in their heart for them.
Don't speak english, just F5, F5, F5... |
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UMEE
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Posted - 2009.03.09 06:11:00 -
[71]
lasers > drones > projectiles > hybrids > missiles
...regarding pvp viability and versatility. turrets were always cool for their instant damage. lasers are a little OP right now imho cuz pulses have great range and amazing dps...and all other lasers are quite viable. projectiles are cool for the high fall-off but require a crapload of skilling.
unfortunately, right now it seems that only the gallente drone boats excel in pvp. unless youve got some drones skills or want to specialize in drones, there's little reason to fly gallente HACs and BSs. mind you, the mega will still tear you a new hole if it's in your face on a gate.
you seem like a fotm kinda guy, so why dont you just train amarr? the zealot and amarr recons are the best ships for what you want.
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sophisticatedlimabean
Gallente
Delinquent Habits
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Posted - 2009.03.09 08:58:00 -
[72]
Edited by: sophisticatedlimabean on 09/03/2009 09:03:16
Originally by: Koloch
Edited by: Koloch on 09/03/2009 01:27:49
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean
Are you another liar or do you just hear voices?.
Show me in this thread where i asked you or anybody else for that matter to show me "when" gallente were overpowered....looks like you are the stupid one and not only that but a stupid liar as well.
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean
..you seem to think that gallente have been/were top dogs in BS pvp for years, so maybe you need a education in how races, ships and systems compare now and in the past.
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean
You have no idea about the past if you think gallente ruled it for years...
You deny that Gallente were overpowered. It's implied that you want proof for this overpowered phase in Gallente's history re: When?
Looks like you are the fool.
No it did not as the conversation in this thread is about blasters not drones. You twisted a comment made within the context of blaster ships into a historical referance to PRENERF drone ships and used "" marks to make it look like i had asked a question i had not.
YOU ARE A LIAR AND A FOOL.
My views may reflect those of my corp/alliance, but if you wanna know for sure ask em for gods sake. |
heslookinatu
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Posted - 2009.03.09 10:51:00 -
[73]
Originally by: UMEE
lasers > drones > projectiles > hybrids > missiles
...regarding pvp viability and versatility. turrets were always cool for their instant damage. lasers are a little OP right now imho cuz pulses have great range and amazing dps...and all other lasers are quite viable. projectiles are cool for the high fall-off but require a crapload of skilling.
unfortunately, right now it seems that only the gallente drone boats excel in pvp. unless youve got some drones skills or want to specialize in drones, there's little reason to fly gallente HACs and BSs. mind you, the mega will still tear you a new hole if it's in your face on a gate.
you seem like a fotm kinda guy, so why dont you just train amarr? the zealot and amarr recons are the best ships for what you want.
Not a FOTM guy, ive been always gallente but that was when they had good gunships, farjung got me liking gallente back when blasters were still pretty usefull.
They aren't anymore and i am not sure if i like drone ships.
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Koloch
Amarr
Warriors Lost
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Posted - 2009.03.09 11:00:00 -
[74]
Edited by: Koloch on 09/03/2009 11:01:04
@sophisticatedlimabean
Actually I support a boost to blaster damage - like I stated a few times in this thread.
You made reference to the past, I just filled in the details. I never stated that the past should dictate how the game moves forward.
End of the day I didn't make anything up. You are the one in the quotes.
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IHeartYou
Darkwave Technologies
Doctrine.
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Posted - 2009.03.09 11:07:00 -
[75]
Blasters are horrible I tell you, in most situations. Excellent for finishing off a webbed target where you need some pretty high dps. AWEFUL in general fleet combat. Use rails instead, or train for something else. Med/Large blasters miss anyway, if shooting something that isn't pretty much stationary in your optimal. Short range + small movement = requires lots of tracking.
Good for gank (but is extra dps really that important against a target that is already strapped down by others and would die anyway?).
Poor for general fleet fights. Poor tracking. Requires you to travel to the target before it's of any effect at all. Often missing, unless target is kept webbed and scrammed.
Pulse lasers with scorch is the flavor of the month atm I'd say. Pretty medium range while having enough gank. Ok tracking. Not perfect but is of a lot more use in common fleet warfare where things often are 10km+ away.
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heslookinatu
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Posted - 2009.03.09 11:28:00 -
[76]
Originally by: IHeartYou
Blasters are horrible I tell you, in most situations. Excellent for finishing off a webbed target where you need some pretty high dps. AWEFUL in general fleet combat. Use rails instead, or train for something else. Med/Large blasters miss anyway, if shooting something that isn't pretty much stationary in your optimal. Short range + small movement = requires lots of tracking.
Good for gank (but is extra dps really that important against a target that is already strapped down by others and would die anyway?).
Poor for general fleet fights. Poor tracking. Requires you to travel to the target before it's of any effect at all. Often missing, unless target is kept webbed and scrammed.
Pulse lasers with scorch is the flavor of the month atm I'd say. Pretty medium range while having enough gank. Ok tracking. Not perfect but is of a lot more use in common fleet warfare where things often are 10km+ away.
So reading this post what do you suggest i do? most of my time in eve was spent training for blasters. Now i need to decide amarr or minmatar.
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Morel Nova
z3r0 Gravity
Fluidic Anti-Gravity
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Posted - 2009.03.09 11:45:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Ig Neus
Quote:
Thoughts? I am basically looking for a good gun race with decently speedy ships and good solo ships (speedy isn't required but it obviously makes it more fun i currently only fly inties)
Guns + Speed + Solo = Minmatar.
I gave up somewhere in the blaster debate on page 2... so I'm just going to reply to OP...
It really does sound like minmatar is what you want, but amarr is not a bad choice either because:
- very very good gang ships (battleships and zealot for example), zealot is almost useless solo and who really soloes in a battleship except for station warriors.
- their recons do work well solo (pilgrim, curse) although they use drones and neuts, not guns.
also, medium blasters have a bit of a problem, but people are blowing it right out of proportion (IMHO, small are awsome, large are fine). The main reason people go with drone boats is VERSATILITY. Drones let you pretty much engage any target you want.
I used to be gallente specced, then trained amarr, and I love zealot in gangs and spend a lot of time stalking prey in my pilgrim. Right now I'm training minmatar cruisers because I want to do the hit and run stuff more efficiently.
Put in space whales!
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Goumindong
Amarr
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.03.09 11:46:00 -
[78]
Edited by: Goumindong on 09/03/2009 11:47:22
Originally by: heslookinatu
What is the best race for guerilla combat, solo guerilla, small gang, quick in and out gangs and covert grief gangs.
Minnie/Gallente.
In general. Minnie is better against ships that are smaller than it. Gallente against larger sized ships and the same sized.
Exceptions:
Good sized "in and out gangs" center on long range HACs now. Which advantage the Zealot, Muninn, and Rapier. Though the Deimos isn't exactly bad here, its just not great.
The best solo covert griefer is currently the Pilgrim.
For everything else though that you listed you're just fine with Gallente.
edit: "Speed" doesn't really mean "going fast" anymore, it means "getting away". If that is your thing then minnie are better and while also just plain faster, gallente are still a plenty fast race(and faster than they've been previously due to relative speed changes)
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Theron Gyrow
Gradient
Electus Matari
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Posted - 2009.03.09 11:49:00 -
[79]
Originally by: IHeartYou
Blasters are horrible I tell you, in most situations. Excellent for finishing off a webbed target where you need some pretty high dps. AWEFUL in general fleet combat. Use rails instead, or train for something else. Med/Large blasters miss anyway, if shooting something that isn't pretty much stationary in your optimal. Short range + small movement = requires lots of tracking.
Good for gank (but is extra dps really that important against a target that is already strapped down by others and would die anyway?).
Poor for general fleet fights. Poor tracking. Requires you to travel to the target before it's of any effect at all. Often missing, unless target is kept webbed and scrammed.
Pulse lasers with scorch is the flavor of the month atm I'd say. Pretty medium range while having enough gank. Ok tracking. Not perfect but is of a lot more use in common fleet warfare where things often are 10km+ away.
This, exactly.
One additional tidbit of info: MP Armageddon with three damage mods has higher damage output than a neutron Megathron with two.
To the OP: you might like flying a Zealot (not for solo, though) or, if you could consider going for missiles, possibly even a Cerberus - just go for TD tank with the latter and pick your targets. :)
--
Gradient forum |
heslookinatu
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Posted - 2009.03.09 11:54:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Theron Gyrow
Originally by: IHeartYou
Blasters are horrible I tell you, in most situations. Excellent for finishing off a webbed target where you need some pretty high dps. AWEFUL in general fleet combat. Use rails instead, or train for something else. Med/Large blasters miss anyway, if shooting something that isn't pretty much stationary in your optimal. Short range + small movement = requires lots of tracking.
Good for gank (but is extra dps really that important against a target that is already strapped down by others and would die anyway?).
Poor for general fleet fights. Poor tracking. Requires you to travel to the target before it's of any effect at all. Often missing, unless target is kept webbed and scrammed.
Pulse lasers with scorch is the flavor of the month atm I'd say. Pretty medium range while having enough gank. Ok tracking. Not perfect but is of a lot more use in common fleet warfare where things often are 10km+ away.
This, exactly.
One additional tidbit of info: MP Armageddon with three damage mods has higher damage output than a neutron Megathron with two.
To the OP: you might like flying a Zealot (not for solo, though) or, if you could consider going for missiles, possibly even a Cerberus - just go for TD tank with the latter and pick your targets. :)
Wouldn't ever spec missile stuff, but thats my issue currently, i can go amarr with no solo ability but great gang ability or i can go minie with a little solo ability and some small gang stuff but not as good as amarr
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Wideen
Warped Mining
Strip Mining Club
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Posted - 2009.03.09 11:55:00 -
[81]
I don't see what the problem is...
if you want range in your gang - fit rails. Problem solved. If you're gallente speced stay with that and just fit the appropriate weapon system for medium range engagements.
________________________________________
"I robbed a goon and I liked it" - Suas |
sophisticatedlimabean
Gallente
Delinquent Habits
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Posted - 2009.03.09 11:55:00 -
[82]
Originally by: heslookinatu
So reading this post what do you suggest i do? most of my time in eve was spent training for blasters. Now i need to decide amarr or minmatar.
Remember if you are already skilled in flying gallente hacs and BC you are only a caldari frigate 4 and cruiser 5 skill away from the eagle and caldari frig 4 cruiser 3 from the ferox.
Also raining for blasters means you should already have most of the tertiary gunnery skills done, this is a advantage gunship pilots have over missile users if they wanna cross train the other medium sized systems/ships of other races like mini/amarr.
BC are obviously the easiest "bang for buck" ships to do this with as the harbi and cane are both highly effective tools IF you have your basic tertiary combat/pvp skills done.
My views may reflect those of my corp/alliance, but if you wanna know for sure ask em for gods sake. |
heslookinatu
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Posted - 2009.03.09 12:01:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Wideen
I don't see what the problem is...
if you want range in your gang - fit rails. Problem solved. If you're gallente speced stay with that and just fit the appropriate weapon system for medium range engagements.
Which gallente gun ship isn't completely terrible with rails and could be easily surpassed by another race? Why always fit a sub par rail ship and never get to use blaster ships always being sub par.
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Diomidis
Amarr
Mythos Corp
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2009.03.09 12:04:00 -
[84]
Whining online...
I generally agree with Tzar'rim...
PPl, stop fa(i)lling to the FOTM trap. Don't. It's FOTM, not "Best", just fashion...
Blaster ships are fine. Blasters are the weapon of choice in many good pvp ships boats and can work in many situations rather well. So what if Gallente boats need drones to shine? Which race doesn't need them, and for how many ships/which class?
It's silly when ppl complain about HAVING options...
Just like the "Vexor is better than the Thorax" silly complains: HELLO, VEXOR IS STILL A GALLENTE cruiser and you also fit it with blasters in order to out-dps the thorax...
You claim Amarr being better...where? Cruiser wise?
The only good cruiser Amarr have is Arbitrator, a drone ship...lolz...
Ok, the Amarr have good HACs...two totally different beasts: the one is a close range tanking missile boat (pretty good but nerfed a bit after the HAM changes in QR), the other is a mid/long range pure dps laserboat...no real tackle (unless you wish to lose your range advantage), stupidly weak vs. frigates once those come close, and generally weakly tanked...
BC wise? The amarr get some decent ships too, but it's not like those wtfpwn gallente ones...and the Tier 2 BC, despite the "uber" FOTM-lazor potential, simply NEEDs drones...and even then it's not the )$!#($+( pwn machine...so again, I cannot see where do Gallente (or blasters) lack...
Again most of the pros amarr get, are balanced by their weaknesses. Amarr are slower and more cap-dependant: surely if others tackle and web for you, you will perform better in mid ranges, then again why don't you use HMLs and Caldari? Almost none hi-dps laser platform can perform exceptionally better than the Gallente blaster one. PPl tend to underestimate ships they have never flown or learn to fly correctly, simply because they read EFT numbers or which ship tops KMs in dmg...what about tackle? What about survivability when things go wrong?
-What about Minie?
+What about them?
-Don't they need drones and missiles?
+They do, and they have the capability to use them! That's why all of those cruisers are better than the Caldari or Amarr ones that don't...
All in all, the average Sub BS Amarr cannot do anything moar then DPS and maybe tank. Most good Amarr ships are highly specialized fleet-dependant boats. You need others to tackle for you, and in some occasions you can be a bait ship or a good tanker, most of the times by losing dps / range advantages. Most Gallente ships can do the same, but fitting holly trinity of tackle / cap boosters and drones for them is always an option, and requires few compromises.
The only think Gallente and blasterboats in general lack, is range...it's not that bad.
An plz do not EVER compare Gallente and Minmatar Sub BC options with amarr / caldari ones again, where only ewar cruises are worth flying in PvP...
Join the Biggest Greek Corp!
www.Mythos-eve.com - Join Mythos Channel in game! |
Dethuss
Gallente
The Littlest Pwny
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Posted - 2009.03.09 12:46:00 -
[85]
Originally by: Diomidis
Edited by: Diomidis on 09/03/2009 12:10:38
Whining online...
I generally agree with Tzar'rim...
PPl, stop fa(i)lling to the FOTM trap. Don't. It's FOTM, not "Best", just fashion...
Blaster ships are fine. Blasters are the weapon of choice in many good pvp ships boats and can work in many situations rather well. So what if Gallente boats need drones to shine? Which race doesn't need them, and for how many ships/which class?
It's silly when ppl complain about HAVING options...
Just like the "Vexor is better than the Thorax" silly complains: HELLO, VEXOR IS STILL A GALLENTE cruiser and you also fit it with blasters in order to out-dps the thorax...
Again most of the pros amarr get, are balanced by their weaknesses. Amarr are slower and more cap-dependant: surely if others tackle and web for you, you will perform better in mid ranges, then again why don't you use HMLs and Caldari? Almost none hi-dps laser platform can perform exceptionally better than the Gallente blaster one. PPl tend to underestimate ships they have never flown or learn to fly correctly, simply because they read EFT numbers or which ship tops KMs in dmg...what about tackle? What about survivability when things go wrong?
-What about Minie?
+What about them?
-Don't they need drones and missiles?
+They do, and they have the capability to use them! That's why all of those cruisers are better than the Caldari or Amarr ones that don't...
All in all, the average Sub BS Amarr cannot do anything moar then DPS and maybe tank. Most good Amarr ships are highly specialized fleet-dependant boats. You need others to tackle for you, and in some occasions you can be a bait ship or a good tanker, most of the times by losing dps / range advantages. Most Gallente ships can do the same, but fitting holly trinity of tackle / cap boosters and drones for them is always an option, and requires few compromises.
The only think Gallente and blasterboats in general lack, is range...if you rule out drones...it's not that bad.
An plz do not EVER compare Gallente and Minmatar Sub BC options with amarr / caldari ones again, where only ewar cruises are worth flying in PvP...
This TBH, blasters are still fine and gallente have far more options for viable ships then most other races, Brutix still puts a hurt with a decent tank, so you have to MWD into range, in a gang pick secondary and start putting a hurt on him.
Vexor is amazing tbh for a t1 cruiser
1600 plate med blaster thorax will solo most ships it comes across
myrm is still somewhat decent although you should probably just fly the brutix
Ishtar is amazing
Phobos is a great ship
etc
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Zomg Penguin |
marakor
Gallente
Anti Lag Forum Smackers
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Posted - 2009.03.09 13:18:00 -
[86]
Edited by: marakor on 09/03/2009 13:21:45
Originally by: Dethuss
This TBH, blasters are still fine and gallente have far more options for viable ships then most other races, Brutix still puts a hurt with a decent tank, so you have to MWD into range, in a gang pick secondary and start putting a hurt on him.
Vexor is amazing tbh for a t1 cruiser
1600 plate med blaster thorax will solo most ships it comes across
myrm is still somewhat decent although you should probably just fly the brutix
Ishtar is amazing
Phobos is a great ship
etc
I find it interesting that all the ppl who post on here with claims that blasters are fine go on to give examples that are mostly drone ships like the Vexor, Myrm, Domi, Ishtar ect....
The phobos is ok but its a HIC and not much different in ability than other the races HICS. The thorax and its big brother the brutix like other ships used for solo work seem good because the pilots using them pick and choose their targets as do all solo pvpers no matter what ship they choose to use. But in gang combat the thorax and brutix are both death traps due to their lacks.
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Esmenet
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.03.09 13:23:00 -
[87]
Originally by: UMEE
lasers > drones > projectiles > hybrids > missiles
Drones have many limitations that makes them useless in many pvp situations. Turrets in general always work wich makes them the perfect pvp weapon. Drones and missiles cant really be compared with turrets as they have their moment in some situations and completely suck in others.
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Dethuss
Gallente
The Littlest Pwny
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Posted - 2009.03.09 13:32:00 -
[88]
Originally by: marakor
Edited by: marakor on 09/03/2009 13:21:45
Originally by: Dethuss
This TBH, blasters are still fine and gallente have far more options for viable ships then most other races, Brutix still puts a hurt with a decent tank, so you have to MWD into range, in a gang pick secondary and start putting a hurt on him.
Vexor is amazing tbh for a t1 cruiser
1600 plate med blaster thorax will solo most ships it comes across
myrm is still somewhat decent although you should probably just fly the brutix
Ishtar is amazing
Phobos is a great ship
etc
I find it interesting that all the ppl who post on here with claims that blasters are fine go on to give examples that are mostly drone ships like the Vexor, Myrm, Domi, Ishtar ect....
The phobos is ok but its a HIC and not much different in ability than other the races HICS. The thorax and its big brother the brutix like other ships used for solo work seem good because the pilots using them pick and choose their targets as do all solo pvpers no matter what ship they choose to use. But in gang combat the thorax and brutix are both death traps due to their lacks.
Explain how brutix and thorax are bad in gang work? I seem to see tons of pilots doing fine in them. Also what race has better gang ships then gallente while still being able to solo somewhat well (protip Its not amarr)
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Zomg Penguin |
marakor
Gallente
Anti Lag Forum Smackers
|
Posted - 2009.03.09 13:53:00 -
[89]
Edited by: marakor on 09/03/2009 13:55:02
Originally by: Dethuss
Explain how brutix and thorax are bad in gang work? I seem to see tons of pilots doing fine in them. Also what race has better gang ships then gallente while still being able to solo somewhat well (protip Its not amarr)
Amarr have a few ships that can solo very well actually (did you forget the CURSE as its considered one of if not the best solo ship in the game) but then as stated already solo is not only rare but also more about target selection anyway, and amarr also have plenty of the very best gang ships as well as a sniper that can hit at maximum range.
So we have for amarr:
Solo = CURSE (the best solo ship in game imho).
Sniping = Apocalypse (maximum range sniper only the rokh can touch).
Gang = Take your pick (Amarr have the best gang ships in virtually every class/size the game offers).
But hey caldari have the falcon....for now.
Pro tip stop posting.
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heslookinatu
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Posted - 2009.03.09 14:07:00 -
[90]
Originally by: marakor
Edited by: marakor on 09/03/2009 13:55:02
Originally by: Dethuss
Explain how brutix and thorax are bad in gang work? I seem to see tons of pilots doing fine in them. Also what race has better gang ships then gallente while still being able to solo somewhat well (protip Its not amarr)
Amarr have a few ships that can solo very well actually (did you forget the CURSE as its considered one of if not the best solo ship in the game) but then as stated already solo is not only rare but also more about target selection anyway, and amarr also have plenty of the very best gang ships as well as a sniper that can hit at maximum range.
So we have for amarr:
Solo = CURSE (the best solo ship in game imho).
Sniping = Apocalypse (maximum range sniper only the rokh can touch).
Gang = Take your pick (Amarr have the best gang ships in virtually every class/size the game offers).
But hey caldari have the falcon....for now.
Pro tip stop posting.
So the point your getting at is basically train amarr?
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The Djego
Minmatar
merovinger inc
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Posted - 2009.03.09 14:08:00 -
[91]
Edited by: The Djego on 09/03/2009 14:09:10
Originally by: Dethuss
This TBH, blasters are still fine and gallente have far more options for viable ships then most other races, Brutix still puts a hurt with a decent tank, so you have to MWD into range, in a gang pick secondary and start putting a hurt on him.
A Brutix that hurts, isn¦t tanked, it is shield buffered(Neutron fitted with 3 MFS).
A tanked Brutix does about 530 DPS(with my Skills), at 1.5km, ending up scrambled and fare of this range the DPS is just a joke(also the Tank is good if you use Rigs and Overheating, it is prety meh without rigs).
Originally by: Dethuss
Vexor is amazing tbh for a t1 cruiser
1600 plate med blaster thorax will solo most ships it comes across
myrm is still somewhat decent although you should probably just fly the brutix
Ishtar is amazing
Phobos is a great ship
Vexor, Myrm and Ishtar are Drone Ships.
Phobos is a HIC(that is general much easier to remove than a Broadsword/Onyx because it only has a strong Buffer or strong active Tank not both).
You can easy outrange a Thorax within Web Range easy if you have a Scrambler. A 1600mm Thorax is quite bad when it comes to slow down after the MWD Cycle that gets you in range making it very unlikely you end up where you want against Cruisers(1.5km)/Frigs(5km) what will kill you in many cases. 
----
Nerf Tank - Boost Gank!
Originally by: Amantus
Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
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marakor
Gallente
Anti Lag Forum Smackers
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Posted - 2009.03.09 14:16:00 -
[92]
Originally by: heslookinatu
Originally by: marakor
Originally by: Dethuss
Explain how brutix and thorax are bad in gang work? I seem to see tons of pilots doing fine in them. Also what race has better gang ships then gallente while still being able to solo somewhat well (protip Its not amarr)
Amarr have a few ships that can solo very well actually (did you forget the CURSE as its considered one of if not the best solo ship in the game) but then as stated already solo is not only rare but also more about target selection anyway, and amarr also have plenty of the very best gang ships as well as a sniper that can hit at maximum range.
So we have for amarr:
Solo = CURSE (the best solo ship in game imho).
Sniping = Apocalypse (maximum range sniper only the rokh can touch).
Gang = Take your pick (Amarr have the best gang ships in virtually every class/size the game offers).
But hey caldari have the falcon....for now.
Pro tip stop posting.
So the point your getting at is basically train amarr?
Its what i am doing, and for those who complain about FOTM chasing i say its better than whining and i have finished training gallente pvp ships/skills as well as the caldari rail ships anyway so i may as welll do summat.
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Ig Neus
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Posted - 2009.03.09 14:26:00 -
[93]
Originally by: marakor
Edited by: marakor on 09/03/2009 13:21:45
I find it interesting that all the ppl who post on here with claims that blasters are fine go on to give examples that are mostly drone ships like the Vexor, Myrm, Domi, Ishtar ect....
The phobos is ok but its a HIC and not much different in ability than other the races HICS. The thorax and its big brother the brutix like other ships used for solo work seem good because the pilots using them pick and choose their targets as do all solo pvpers no matter what ship they choose to use. But in gang combat the thorax and brutix are both death traps due to their lacks.
Of course anyone who does solo pvp picks his targets. This is true for the Pilgrim (that is a better soloer than a Curse) as well. The interesting fact however is that a Plated (1600mm) Thorax with Medium Electrons will probably beat any other T1 Cruiser, especially when you factor the 5 medium ECM Drones. That means that a Thorax does not "seem good" but that it IS good.
Also, Brutix is currently the most useful Tier 1 Battlecruiser. It is cheap and is easy to fit for over 45k EHP and over 700 DPS, without even rigging it. Gank setups (with Neutrons) will do more damage than many Battleships.
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vostok
Minmatar
Shadow of xXDEATHXx
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Posted - 2009.03.09 14:37:00 -
[94]
Originally by: Koloch
Edited by: Koloch on 09/03/2009 01:27:49
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean
Are you another liar or do you just hear voices?.
Show me in this thread where i asked you or anybody else for that matter to show me "when" gallente were overpowered....looks like you are the stupid one and not only that but a stupid liar as well.
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean
..you seem to think that gallente have been/were top dogs in BS pvp for years, so maybe you need a education in how races, ships and systems compare now and in the past.
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean
You have no idea about the past if you think gallente ruled it for years...
You deny that Gallente were overpowered. It's implied that you want proof for this overpowered phase in Gallente's history re: When?
Looks like you are the fool.
I would say gallente were overpowered when an eos and an arazu/lachesis could take down a gang of 5 anythings. Well not capital obviously, but I know of a time when a carrier had all of its drones killed by those 2 ships and as I remember they just kept it pinned until their friends turned up.
But all of that changed when damps were crippled, making the arazu/lachesis useless, then the warfare link affecting damps was nerfed, which was in turn a nerf to the eos which lost 2 turrets and 2 heavy drones making it deal the same damage as other fleet command ships at about a 1/10th of the range with much less useful bonuses. (if you want to argue about this then yes I will agree that an all ecm gang will find it useful but that hardly makes it a useful ship).
The megathron also used to be quite good when people still used WCS before the nerf and then before hics, because it was worth using 2 point scrams and the damage they did was still good because ravens did 33% less damage but at a much longer range, and the armour res nerf hadn't come in.
T2 ammo also helped drive a few more nails into the coffin, giving javelin and scorch ammo letting the torps and pulse deal a large chunk of their damage up towards the 40km bracket while blasters get nul letting them do less damage than torps or pulse at the ranges where they would be using T1 or faction ammo.
Then of course the most recent nerf is the web nerf, meaning blasters can't track anything in their optimal range, which isn't such an issue for amarr who will generally be fighting at longer ranges since they don't have to mwd at their targets like nutters and ofc torps don't need to track.
Obviously this isn't a timeline, the nerfs didn't happen in this order, but I think we can all agree that it's been a damned long time since gallente were top dog in eve.
- Adaptation is not an excuse for lack of ballance! -
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sophisticatedlimabean
Gallente
Delinquent Habits
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Posted - 2009.03.09 14:39:00 -
[95]
Originally by: Ig Neus
The interesting fact however is that a Plated (1600mm) Thorax with Medium Electrons will probably beat any other T1 Cruiser, especially when you factor the 5 medium ECM Drones. That means that a Thorax does not "seem good" but that it IS good.
No it seems good when you post it like that, but then you realize 1 v 1 TECH 1 cruiser pvp is summat that you would be lucky to find if you were on sissi in FD- and spamming local asking for it, let alone on TQ.
My views may reflect those of my corp/alliance, but if you wanna know for sure ask em for gods sake. |
Ig Neus
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Posted - 2009.03.09 14:45:00 -
[96]
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean
No it seems good when you post it like that, but then you realize 1 v 1 TECH 1 cruiser pvp is summat that you would be lucky to find if you were on sissi in FD- and spamming local asking for it, let alone on TQ.
Indeed, 1v1 Tech 1 Cruiser PvP is not too common. What about T2 Frigate 1v1s? This is more common, right? Have any Assault Frigates to fight my Ishkur (before you start the blah blah Drone thing, the biggest part of its damage are the blasters) or any Interceptors to try my Taranis?
Also, in Thorax/Brutix are great in small Gangs as well. Especially since their biggest problem (Range) gets solved if you have a T1 Rifter Tackling that you can warp on while he holds target down. Can you seriously tell that you would pick an Amarr T1 Cruiser over Thorax for a Frig/Cruiser gang?
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Tzar'rim
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Posted - 2009.03.09 14:45:00 -
[97]
So, while a 1600 plate thorax with ECMs is VERY good, you state that it's crap because you never run into another solo cruiser... In other words, all cruisers are crap because they never get any targets.
Self-proclaimed idiot
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Delnas Sapphire
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Posted - 2009.03.09 14:47:00 -
[98]
Originally by: Ig Neus
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean
No it seems good when you post it like that, but then you realize 1 v 1 TECH 1 cruiser pvp is summat that you would be lucky to find if you were on sissi in FD- and spamming local asking for it, let alone on TQ.
Indeed, 1v1 Tech 1 Cruiser PvP is not too common. What about T2 Frigate 1v1s? This is more common, right? Have any Assault Frigates to fight my Ishkur (before you start the blah blah Drone thing, the biggest part of its damage are the blasters) or any Interceptors to try my Taranis?
Also, in Thorax/Brutix are great in small Gangs as well. Especially since their biggest problem (Range) gets solved if you have a T1 Rifter Tackling that you can warp on while he holds target down. Can you seriously tell that you would pick an Amarr T1 Cruiser over Thorax for a Frig/Cruiser gang?
I think his point is you are 100% better off in a matar or amarr ship at this point.
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Tzar'rim
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Posted - 2009.03.09 14:47:00 -
[99]
Originally by: Ig Neus
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean
No it seems good when you post it like that, but then you realize 1 v 1 TECH 1 cruiser pvp is summat that you would be lucky to find if you were on sissi in FD- and spamming local asking for it, let alone on TQ.
Indeed, 1v1 Tech 1 Cruiser PvP is not too common. What about T2 Frigate 1v1s? This is more common, right? Have any Assault Frigates to fight my Ishkur (before you start the blah blah Drone thing, the biggest part of its damage are the blasters) or any Interceptors to try my Taranis?
Also, in Thorax/Brutix are great in small Gangs as well. Especially since their biggest problem (Range) gets solved if you have a T1 Rifter Tackling that you can warp on while he holds target down. Can you seriously tell that you would pick an Amarr T1 Cruiser over Thorax for a Frig/Cruiser gang?
Give me a small gang of 5 1600 thoraxes with 50 ECM drones, lets see what you CAN'T take on.
Self-proclaimed idiot
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Malcanis
R.E.C.O.N.
Dara Cothrom
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Posted - 2009.03.09 14:54:00 -
[100]
After reading this thread I have decided to train medium blaster spec.
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Malcanis
R.E.C.O.N.
Dara Cothrom
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Posted - 2009.03.09 14:59:00 -
[101]
Originally by: Tzar'rim
Originally by: Ig Neus
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean
No it seems good when you post it like that, but then you realize 1 v 1 TECH 1 cruiser pvp is summat that you would be lucky to find if you were on sissi in FD- and spamming local asking for it, let alone on TQ.
Indeed, 1v1 Tech 1 Cruiser PvP is not too common. What about T2 Frigate 1v1s? This is more common, right? Have any Assault Frigates to fight my Ishkur (before you start the blah blah Drone thing, the biggest part of its damage are the blasters) or any Interceptors to try my Taranis?
Also, in Thorax/Brutix are great in small Gangs as well. Especially since their biggest problem (Range) gets solved if you have a T1 Rifter Tackling that you can warp on while he holds target down. Can you seriously tell that you would pick an Amarr T1 Cruiser over Thorax for a Frig/Cruiser gang?
Give me a small gang of 5 1600 thoraxes with 50 ECM drones, lets see what you CAN'T take on.
WTB 100mbit Thorax x 5
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Delnas Sapphire
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Posted - 2009.03.09 14:59:00 -
[102]
Originally by: Malcanis
After reading this thread I have decided to train medium blaster spec.
How did you get that out of this thread
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
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Posted - 2009.03.09 15:27:00 -
[103]
Edited by: NightmareX on 09/03/2009 15:35:52
Originally by: Malcanis
After reading this thread I have decided to train medium blaster spec.
 , that's how you do it when someone whines about Blasters.
LOL, the crying and whining because someone is a total noob with Blasters is just amazing.
I have every of the Blaster Spec skills at level 4.
I also have 18.1 mill SP in Gunnery only in Projectile and Blaster skills. Rest of the skills like Sharpshooter, Rapid Firing etc is at level 5, so i for sure have the skills to use those weapons.
And i have never had any problems with Blasters after the web nerf. So i'll guess i can say that Blasters is fine.
And don't come with but, but, but, but.......Blasters sucks because they are yadda yadda yadda.
Blasters don't sucks because one guy use Blasters wrong and don't have the skills for it. Everyone have different play styles. And for my play style, Blasters are PERFECTLY fine. Just use Blasters in the right PVP situations and you will see what they are good at. It's simple.
So they can't still suck then for me, can they?. Or do they still sucks for me because someone sucks at using Blasters right and then goes eeeeeeeemmmmmmmoooooooooo raaaaaaaaaage on the forum and cry like a baby here that Blasters sucks?, when in fact it's them self who are the failure.
Anyways. Going for Minmatar is a good choice. I'm pretty specializated in Minmatar ships from frigs and up to Marauders. So i can say that if your going for solo / small scale PVP, then Minmatar is the way to go, if you want to have ALOT of fun.
When i say fun, it doesn't mean they are the best. Well they might be best at something. But i rather use something that are very fun to use than using the ships or weapons that are FOTM.
The worst thing you ever can do is to listen to the FOTM noobs / bears or the EFT warriors. Just believe me when i say it.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Jofridur
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Posted - 2009.03.09 15:31:00 -
[104]
Sounds like you want Minmatar ships but the FOTM is tempting...
Train both, you probably have most of the skills you need already.
Minmatar Frigate 5
Minmatar Cruiser 5
Amarr Frigate 5
Amarr Cruiser 5
Small Laser/Projectiles
Medium Laser/Projectiles
Add a dash of Shield skills if you don't have any.
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Absalom Marathon
The Athiest Syndicate
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Posted - 2009.03.09 15:37:00 -
[105]
Edited by: Absalom Marathon on 09/03/2009 15:37:45
Quote:
A Brutix with Ions, a 800mm plate, 2 MFS, a DCU, an EANM, the typical Medium setup and 3 Trimarks gets 51.650 EHP and 752 DPS with Void. I'd say that this hurts and that 51.650 is not paper thin.
No. Please no. Seriously, this is not eft, we're talking 'real' eve. Putting 60+mil worth of rigs on a t1 BC is absurd for all but like, 2% of pvpers. I like the brutix, so not arguing there, but having more than like 10mil of rigs on it is crazy.
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Cohkka
Celestial Apocalypse
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Posted - 2009.03.09 15:37:00 -
[106]
Originally by: Dethuss
This TBH, blasters are still fine and gallente have far more options for viable ships then most other races, Brutix still puts a hurt with a decent tank, so you have to MWD into range, in a gang pick secondary and start putting a hurt on him.
If you were in my gang I'd shoot your ass for such a comment.
Don't speak english, just F5, F5, F5... |
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
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Posted - 2009.03.09 15:42:00 -
[107]
Edited by: NightmareX on 09/03/2009 15:45:55
Originally by: Cohkka
Originally by: Dethuss
This TBH, blasters are still fine and gallente have far more options for viable ships then most other races, Brutix still puts a hurt with a decent tank, so you have to MWD into range, in a gang pick secondary and start putting a hurt on him.
If you were in my gang I'd shoot your ass for such a comment.
About the secondary target there, i agree with you there Cohkka.
The only way i would aggro a secondary target while shooting the primary is only if i have a ships with ECM or Remote Sensor Damps.
Shoot the primary and jam / damp the secondary or others except for the primary.
Originally by: Absalom Marathon
Putting 60+mil worth of rigs on a t1 BC is absurd for all but like, 2% of pvpers. I like the brutix, so not arguing there, but having more than like 10mil of rigs on it is crazy.
Heh.
I use to put rigs on my Tempest that is worth like 50-60 mill isk.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Ig Neus
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Posted - 2009.03.09 15:45:00 -
[108]
Originally by: Absalom Marathon
Edited by: Absalom Marathon on 09/03/2009 15:37:45
Quote:
A Brutix with Ions, a 800mm plate, 2 MFS, a DCU, an EANM, the typical Medium setup and 3 Trimarks gets 51.650 EHP and 752 DPS with Void. I'd say that this hurts and that 51.650 is not paper thin.
No. Please no. Seriously, this is not eft, we're talking 'real' eve. Putting 60+mil worth of rigs on a t1 BC is absurd for all but like, 2% of pvpers. I like the brutix, so not arguing there, but having more than like 10mil of rigs on it is crazy.
Oh, I generally agree with you. I prefer to fly cheap as well, even if 60 milions are not a big deal (can make that much in half a day missioning with my alt).
Anyway in the same post you quoted I posted that as well (was talking about Brutix of course) :
Quote:
It is cheap and is easy to fit for over 45k EHP and over 700 DPS, without even rigging it. Gank setups (with Neutrons) will do more damage than many Battleships.
Just could not resist giving some numbers for an expensive fitting as well.
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sophisticatedlimabean
Gallente
Delinquent Habits
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Posted - 2009.03.09 15:55:00 -
[109]
Originally by: marakor
So we have for amarr:
Solo = CURSE/PILGRIM (the best solo ship/s in game imho).
Sniping = Apocalypse (maximum range sniper only the rokh can touch).
Gang = Take your pick (Amarr have the best gang ships in virtually every class/size the game offers).
This tbh.
PPL say that gallente/blasters should have a niche but it seems to me that amarr have the best ship for virtually every niche in the game.
My views may reflect those of my corp/alliance, but if you wanna know for sure ask em for gods sake. |
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.03.09 15:59:00 -
[110]
Edited by: NightmareX on 09/03/2009 16:05:07
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean
Originally by: marakor
So we have for amarr:
Solo = CURSE/PILGRIM (the best solo ship/s in game imho).
Sniping = Apocalypse (maximum range sniper only the rokh can touch).
Gang = Take your pick (Amarr have the best gang ships in virtually every class/size the game offers).
This tbh.
PPL say that gallente/blasters should have a niche but it seems to me that amarr have the best ship for virtually every niche in the game.
Yes that's YOUR opinion.
It doesn't mean that Amarr is best, at all, only because someone just say that those Amarr ships are very good, because those Amarr ships is good for someone because of their play style.
And because of that, Amarr can be as much crap as Gallente. I know Gallente is crap at something, and it's the same with the rest of the races.
The races we can use is not meant to be best at everything.
The only non playable race for us i can think of that might be best at absolutely everything is Jove.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
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Malcanis
R.E.C.O.N.
Dara Cothrom
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Posted - 2009.03.09 16:00:00 -
[111]
Originally by: Delnas Sapphire
Originally by: Malcanis
After reading this thread I have decided to train medium blaster spec.
How did you get that out of this thread
3rd beer
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Ig Neus
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Posted - 2009.03.09 16:12:00 -
[112]
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean
Originally by: marakor
So we have for amarr:
Solo = CURSE/PILGRIM (the best solo ship/s in game imho).
Sniping = Apocalypse (maximum range sniper only the rokh can touch).
Gang = Take your pick (Amarr have the best gang ships in virtually every class/size the game offers).
This tbh.
PPL say that gallente/blasters should have a niche but it seems to me that amarr have the best ship for virtually every niche in the game.
I agree that Pilgrim/Curse is a nice solo ship and that Apocalypse (and other 2 Amarr BS) are great at their roles. In fact I think everybody agrees on that. I really disagree with the statement that Amarr have the best gang ships in every class/size the game offers however.
They have great Battleships and their Recons are good for Solo. That's all. I am not going to bother explaining why the following ships are at least as good as their amarr equivelant for gangs, hope you can understand it :
Frigate : Rifter
AF : Ishkur/Jaguar/Harpy
Interceptor : Taranis (for Damage) or Stilleto (for Tackling)
Cruiser : Thorax/Vexor/Rupture
Recon : Falcon
BC : Hurricane/Myrmidon/Brutix (Drake as well if you want a super tanked BC)
Note that I am just including the first ships that come to my mind and that I also prefer Vagabond and Ishtar to Amarr HACs but I understand that people may disagree here.
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Smokeyblood
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Posted - 2009.03.09 19:14:00 -
[113]
Originally by: NightmareX
Edited by: NightmareX on 09/03/2009 16:05:07
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean
Originally by: marakor
So we have for amarr:
Solo = CURSE/PILGRIM (the best solo ship/s in game imho).
Sniping = Apocalypse (maximum range sniper only the rokh can touch).
Gang = Take your pick (Amarr have the best gang ships in virtually every class/size the game offers).
This tbh.
PPL say that gallente/blasters should have a niche but it seems to me that amarr have the best ship for virtually every niche in the game.
Yes that's YOUR opinion.
It doesn't mean that Amarr is best, at all, only because someone just say that those Amarr ships are very good, because those Amarr ships is good for someone because of their play style.
And because of that, Amarr can be as much crap as Gallente. I know Gallente is crap at something, and it's the same with the rest of the races.
The races we can use is not meant to be best at everything.
The only non playable race for us i can think of that might be best at absolutely everything is Jove.
So which gallente blaster ships do you regularly take on gangs that are effective? What ships do you solo in that are effective?
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sophisticatedlimabean
Gallente
Delinquent Habits
|
Posted - 2009.03.09 19:30:00 -
[114]
Originally by: Smokeyblood
So which gallente blaster ships do you regularly take on gangs that are effective? What ships do you solo in that are effective?
He doesn't he mostly plays on sissi with either pimped standard ships (T2 rigs + HG implants minimum) or equally pimped marauders ect ect. Although he does occasionally fully pimp out a ship with officer/faction mods as well.
His main 1 v 1 BF area BS is a ECMPEST i believe, with the standard T2 fit although HG implants + T2 rigs are standard fit as well....100isk per module makes sissi warriors brave. While unfortunately making them totally unrealistic for practical purposes or for a understanding of pvp on TQ.
My views may reflect those of my corp/alliance, but if you wanna know for sure ask em for gods sake. |
Smokeyblood
|
Posted - 2009.03.09 19:32:00 -
[115]
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean
Originally by: Smokeyblood
So which gallente blaster ships do you regularly take on gangs that are effective? What ships do you solo in that are effective?
He doesn't he mostly plays on sissi with either pimped standard ships (T2 rigs + HG implants minimum) or equally pimped marauders ect ect. Although he does occasionally fully pimp out a ship with officer/faction mods as well.
His main 1 v 1 BF area BS is a ECMPEST i believe, with the standard T2 fit although HG implants + T2 rigs are standard fit as well....100isk per module makes sissi warriors brave. While unfortunately making them totally unrealistic for practical purposes or for a understanding of pvp on TQ.
This is kinda what i was thinking that he had unrealistic impressions of blasters as while they are not completely broken yet, are outclassed by minnie and amarr ships in almost every category except for interceptor.
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Fistme
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Posted - 2009.03.09 20:38:00 -
[116]
Blasters are good for 1v1, lasers are better for everything else. Guess how often people 1v1.
So to reply to the OP before I get myself off topic I suggest you train for the zealot and later try and skill up to the geddon and apoc. Geddon is king of RR med range fleet battles, Apoc is king of long range fleet battles! The Zealot is a great ship for roaming hac gangs and is very effective with both pulse and beams!
Now for the Blaster Whine! (you all knew it was coming)
Now I think most people that are at least mildly objective about the current state of PVP understand that Blasters could be much better in their point blank role to add a little diversity to small and medium sized gangs that are currently dominated by the RR, high EHP, long range DPS of the Amarr ships.
What I propose is to increase the dps of medium and large blasters by 5-7% while also increase the amount of cap they use(oh noes! a trade off!). I do not think that any adjustment to small blasters is needed as the ships they are commonly fitted to are doing amazingly well, if not too well! A scaled buff to blasters across the entire lineup would most certainly make these ships (taranis, ishkur) far too potent.
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Arlekina
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Posted - 2009.03.09 20:45:00 -
[117]
For everyone claiming blasters are good, please link your latest real kills with a blaster ship. lets see if you have a clue. |
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.03.09 20:47:00 -
[118]
Edited by: NightmareX on 09/03/2009 20:56:31
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean
Originally by: Smokeyblood
So which gallente blaster ships do you regularly take on gangs that are effective? What ships do you solo in that are effective?
He doesn't he mostly plays on sissi with either pimped standard ships (T2 rigs + HG implants minimum) or equally pimped marauders ect ect. Although he does occasionally fully pimp out a ship with officer/faction mods as well.
His main 1 v 1 BF area BS is a ECMPEST i believe, with the standard T2 fit although HG implants + T2 rigs are standard fit as well....100isk per module makes sissi warriors brave. While unfortunately making them totally unrealistic for practical purposes or for a understanding of pvp on TQ.
OMG, each items on sisi cost 100 isk, omg?.
Like that have anything to say?. It's a reason it's a TEST SERVER. It's because we can test out everything on sisi that are on market to 100 isk. Sisi is not to grind missions everytime just to get isk to buy some things to test out.
And no, the only ship i have that is pimped out is a Megathron Navy Issue, should we say omg to that to?. OMG a Navy BS have a faction / officer / deadspace modules. WHAT THE HELL IS THAT?. I have that Navy Mega on TQ to.
But you probably don't know it though. But i have been fighting everything in a Megathron there. All from 1 vs 1 to 1 vs 5, 10 vs 10, 10 vs 5 etc. And we have been fighting all kinds of ships with all kinds of tactics.
And why doesn't i have a problem with Blasters after all of that?.
I don't think it will be any difference on TQ either. Because since i have tried everything a Megathron can do on sisi, i don't believe there is some new ways to fight on TQ than i have tried on Sisi.
But heh, your just think omg it's sisi, so nothing can be true there, rite?.
And again, about the rigs. The only difference by using T2 rigs on Sisi is that your ship will last a little longer, or do a little more damage, but hey, when everyone else on Sisi is using T2 rigs and HG Slave / Crystal sets, then why shouldn't i do it then?.
I hope you get this. 95% of the players in EVE on TQ are using t1 rigs. I'll do it my self on TQ.
And then take it this way. Ok, lets say everyone was using t1 rigs on Sisi to. It would still be the same if everyone was using T2 rigs, simply because using T2 rigs would be the same if CCP for exaple just gave 5% extra HP to all ships on Sisi.
It wouldn't be any different. But you get my point yeah?. Or are you to dumb to understand that.
I REALLY hope you understand it. Because if you don't, then how you understand how Blasters work then?, if you cannot see the difference by using t1 and t2 rigs / Slave & Crystal set on sisi.
I don't know how many times i have told you this. But i think i'm gonna ask the same question as another in this topic asked about. But do you still have memory problems, problems to remember things?.
But i wont tell you this one more time, because your just whining your ass of anyways.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Arlekina
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Posted - 2009.03.09 20:57:00 -
[119]
Originally by: NightmareX
Edited by: NightmareX on 09/03/2009 20:50:46
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean
Originally by: Smokeyblood
So which gallente blaster ships do you regularly take on gangs that are effective? What ships do you solo in that are effective?
He doesn't he mostly plays on sissi with either pimped standard ships (T2 rigs + HG implants minimum) or equally pimped marauders ect ect. Although he does occasionally fully pimp out a ship with officer/faction mods as well.
His main 1 v 1 BF area BS is a ECMPEST i believe, with the standard T2 fit although HG implants + T2 rigs are standard fit as well....100isk per module makes sissi warriors brave. While unfortunately making them totally unrealistic for practical purposes or for a understanding of pvp on TQ.
But you probably don't know it though. But i have been fighting everything in a Megathron there. All from 1 vs 1 to 1 vs 5, 10 vs 10, 10 vs 5 etc. And we have been fighting all kinds of ships with all kinds of tactics.
And why doesn't i have a problem with Blasters after all of that?.
I don't think it will be any difference on TQ either. Because since i have tried everything a Megathron can do on sisi, i don't believe there is some new ways to fight on TQ than i have tried on Sisi.
So you got no TQ killmails with blasters? Lets see them. BTW TQ =/= Sisi.
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sophisticatedlimabean
Gallente
Delinquent Habits
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Posted - 2009.03.09 21:11:00 -
[120]
Edited by: sophisticatedlimabean on 09/03/2009 21:12:12
Originally by: NightmareX
Like that have anything to say?. It's a reason it's a TEST SERVER. It's because we can test out everything on sisi that are on market to 100 isk. Sisi is not to grind missions everytime just to get isk to buy some things to test out.
You do not test on sissi you play on sissi cos its cheaper and easier as there are rules and BF areas ect. Oh and you have been using virtually the same ECMPEST fit for god knows how long now......
......just how much more "testing" can it need before its ready for TQ...
Originally by: NightmareX
I REALLY hope you understand it. Because if you don't, then how you understand how Blasters work then?, if you cannot see the difference by using t1 and t2 rigs / Slave & Crystal set on sisi.
It wouldn't be any different. But you get my point yeah?. Or are you to dumb to understand that.
Using T2 rigs and HG implants on sissi makes any data taken useless for TQ as ppl do not generally use T2 rigs and HG implants on TQ.
And if you cannot see how using T2 Armour rigs and slaves ect would effect your results when fighting CAP dependent ships then it is you who are dumb beyond belief. Let alone how speed rigs and all the other T2 rig and implant items ppl hardly ever use would effect what ever results you get.
My views may reflect those of my corp/alliance, but if you wanna know for sure ask em for gods sake. |
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
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Posted - 2009.03.09 21:12:00 -
[121]
Originally by: Arlekina
So you got no TQ killmails with blasters? Lets see them. BTW TQ =/= Sisi.
First off, killmails is overrated deluxe.
2nd. I don't need to give you any killmails just to know that Blasters are fine.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
sophisticatedlimabean
Gallente
Delinquent Habits
|
Posted - 2009.03.09 21:16:00 -
[122]
Originally by: NightmareX
First off, killmails is overrated deluxe.
2nd. I don't need to give you any killmails just to know that Blasters are fine.
TRANSLATION
I HAVE HARDLY ANY KILLS ON TQ AND THE FEW THAT I DO HAVE ARE NOT EXACTLY BLASTER SHIP HEAVY...
There ya go.
My views may reflect those of my corp/alliance, but if you wanna know for sure ask em for gods sake. |
Smokeyblood
|
Posted - 2009.03.09 21:17:00 -
[123]
Originally by: Fistme
Blasters are good for 1v1, lasers are better for everything else. Guess how often people 1v1.
So to reply to the OP before I get myself off topic I suggest you train for the zealot and later try and skill up to the geddon and apoc. Geddon is king of RR med range fleet battles, Apoc is king of long range fleet battles! The Zealot is a great ship for roaming hac gangs and is very effective with both pulse and beams!
Now for the Blaster Whine! (you all knew it was coming)
Now I think most people that are at least mildly objective about the current state of PVP understand that Blasters could be much better in their point blank role to add a little diversity to small and medium sized gangs that are currently dominated by the RR, high EHP, long range DPS of the Amarr ships.
What I propose is to increase the dps of medium and large blasters by 5-7% while also increase the amount of cap they use(oh noes! a trade off!). I do not think that any adjustment to small blasters is needed as the ships they are commonly fitted to are doing amazingly well, if not too well! A scaled buff to blasters across the entire lineup would most certainly make these ships (taranis, ishkur) far too potent.
How does minmitar fit in to this scheme? worth training or just stick with amarr
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
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Posted - 2009.03.09 22:12:00 -
[124]
Edited by: NightmareX on 09/03/2009 22:15:04
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean
Edited by: sophisticatedlimabean on 09/03/2009 21:12:12
Originally by: NightmareX
Like that have anything to say?. It's a reason it's a TEST SERVER. It's because we can test out everything on sisi that are on market to 100 isk. Sisi is not to grind missions everytime just to get isk to buy some things to test out.
You do not test on sissi you play on sissi cos its cheaper and easier as there are rules and BF areas ect. Oh and you have been using virtually the same ECMPEST fit for god knows how long now......
......just how much more "testing" can it need before its ready for TQ...
Originally by: NightmareX
I REALLY hope you understand it. Because if you don't, then how you understand how Blasters work then?, if you cannot see the difference by using t1 and t2 rigs / Slave & Crystal set on sisi.
It wouldn't be any different. But you get my point yeah?. Or are you to dumb to understand that.
Using T2 rigs and HG implants on sissi makes any data taken useless for TQ as ppl do not generally use T2 rigs and HG implants on TQ.
And if you cannot see how using T2 Armour rigs and slaves ect would effect your results when fighting CAP dependent ships then it is you who are dumb beyond belief. Let alone how speed rigs and all the other T2 rig and implant items ppl hardly ever use would effect what ever results you get.
To the first point.
Wow, it's a BF and FFA arena there, really?, what are those for?, hmmmmm, isn't those for testing out the things you want to test out on your ships?.
And also, yeah it's cheaper, but who cares about isk on sisi. Isk is worthless on sisi anyways. What does the cheap items have to do with the testing to do?. I would still test all the same things if it have been 1 mill per item on market. it wouldn't make a damn difference.
And take my ECM Tempest out of this topic. Your emo rage whining about the Tempest you can take the the kids in WoW. This topic is about Blasters. Oh by the way, my Tempest is more a Neut Tempest than it is an ECM Tempest.
To the second thing about rigs. It's not useless when everybody else on sisi is using t2 rigs and Slaves / Crystal sets.
It will rather get useless for me to test with t1 rigs and no implants against everybody else with t2 rigs and Slaves and Crystal sets. But hey, your to dumb to get it.
And because of that, it wont have ANYTHING to say, at all. It will be the same if no one on sisi had rigs, but i had one rig. I will get the advantage over them, and then i'm more likely to get much much better results.
Also, when everybody is using t2 rigs there, it wont be different from that no one would use rigs at all on sisi. If everyone didn't had used rigs on sisi, then we would still be equally good to each others. And it's the same if everyone is using t2 rigs. We all are equal to each others then to.
Anyways, i'm waiting for sophisticatedlimabean next emo rage and rabble rabble rabble whine. Or the next poor excuse.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Dethis
Caldari
Queens of the Stone Age
Rote Kapelle
|
Posted - 2009.03.09 22:18:00 -
[125]
Originally by: NightmareX
Edited by: NightmareX on 09/03/2009 22:15:04
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean
Edited by: sophisticatedlimabean on 09/03/2009 21:12:12
Originally by: NightmareX
Like that have anything to say?. It's a reason it's a TEST SERVER. It's because we can test out everything on sisi that are on market to 100 isk. Sisi is not to grind missions everytime just to get isk to buy some things to test out.
You do not test on sissi you play on sissi cos its cheaper and easier as there are rules and BF areas ect. Oh and you have been using virtually the same ECMPEST fit for god knows how long now......
......just how much more "testing" can it need before its ready for TQ...
Originally by: NightmareX
I REALLY hope you understand it. Because if you don't, then how you understand how Blasters work then?, if you cannot see the difference by using t1 and t2 rigs / Slave & Crystal set on sisi.
It wouldn't be any different. But you get my point yeah?. Or are you to dumb to understand that.
Using T2 rigs and HG implants on sissi makes any data taken useless for TQ as ppl do not generally use T2 rigs and HG implants on TQ.
And if you cannot see how using T2 Armour rigs and slaves ect would effect your results when fighting CAP dependent ships then it is you who are dumb beyond belief. Let alone how speed rigs and all the other T2 rig and implant items ppl hardly ever use would effect what ever results you get.
To the first point.
Wow, it's a BF and FFA arena there, really?, what are those for?, hmmmmm, isn't those for testing out the things you want to test out on your ships?.
And also, yeah it's cheaper, but who cares about isk on sisi. Isk is worthless on sisi anyways. What does the cheap items have to do with the testing to do?. I would still test all the same things if it have been 1 mill per item on market. it wouldn't make a damn difference.
And take my ECM Tempest out of this topic. Your emo rage whining about the Tempest you can take the the kids in WoW. This topic is about Blasters. Oh by the way, my Tempest is more a Neut Tempest than it is an ECM Tempest.
To the second thing about rigs. It's not useless when everybody else on sisi is using t2 rigs and Slaves / Crystal sets.
It will rather get useless for me to test with t1 rigs and no implants against everybody else with t2 rigs and Slaves and Crystal sets. But hey, your to dumb to get it.
And because of that, it wont have ANYTHING to say, at all. It will be the same if no one on sisi had rigs, but i had one rig. I will get the advantage over them, and then i'm more likely to get much much better results.
Also, when everybody is using t2 rigs there, it wont be different from that no one would use rigs at all on sisi. If everyone didn't had used rigs on sisi, then we would still be equally good to each others. And it's the same if everyone is using t2 rigs. We all are equal to each others then to.
Anyways, i'm waiting for sophisticatedlimabean next emo rage and rabble rabble rabble whine. Or the next poor excuse.
TBQH atm without trying to whine, i am fully blaster/drone specced and there is little reason to fly a blaster ship currently. The drone boats out preform them almost unanimously and blasters currently suffer on a medium large level.
This doesn't mean they don't work at all however they are at a disadvantage currently after the web nerf and the scram changes.
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Ig Neus
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Posted - 2009.03.09 22:21:00 -
[126]
Edited by: Ig Neus on 09/03/2009 22:23:51
Quote:
So which gallente blaster ships do you regularly take on gangs that are effective? What ships do you solo in that are effective?
I am almost exclusively flying a Taranis nowadays. It happens to be a blaster boat so here are some kills :
Crusader 1v1
Crow 1v1
Crow 1v1 no2
Apocalypse At this last, note that I top the Killmail, while Geddon and Ishtar started warping as soon as I tackled.
Indeed, Blasters are weak.
If you want to come by Tash-Murkon Prime, we can also test if Ishkur or Thorax are effective 1v1 against their class as well. Just make sure you come with an expensive fitting :)
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sophisticatedlimabean
Gallente
Delinquent Habits
|
Posted - 2009.03.09 22:22:00 -
[127]
Edited by: sophisticatedlimabean on 09/03/2009 22:25:29
Originally by: NightmareX
And also, yeah it's cheaper, but who cares about isk on sisi. Isk is worthless on sisi anyways. What does the cheap items have to do with the testing to do?. I would still test all the same things if it have been 1 mill per item on market. it wouldn't make a damn difference.
You do not test on sissi you play on sissi cos your favorite style has no real application on TQ and if you tried it on TQ you would get owned by gangs, costing you a lot more than a few 100 isk.
Originally by: NightmareX
To the second thing about rigs. It's not useless when everybody else on sisi is using t2 rigs and Slaves / Crystal sets.
It will rather get useless for me to test with t1 rigs and no implants against everybody else with t2 rigs and Slaves and Crystal sets. But hey, your to dumb to get it.
Its you who do not get it as you just owned yourself...
IF you do "tests" as you say you do (and lie about) then its just as easy to arrange for your testing teams/members to fit T1 rigs and no implants (or only the basic ones most ppl fit on TQ) as it is to pimp out their ships with HG implants and T2 rigs.
You would know that and do it if you had a clue about real time testing on TQ, but you do not test you play with HG/pimped fits cheaply in a controlled enviroment.
My views may reflect those of my corp/alliance, but if you wanna know for sure ask em for gods sake. |
Dethis
Caldari
Queens of the Stone Age
Rote Kapelle
|
Posted - 2009.03.09 22:24:00 -
[128]
Originally by: Ig Neus
I am almost exclusively flying a Taranis nowadays. It happens to be a blaster boat so here are some kills :
Crusader 1v1
Crow 1v1
Crow 1v1 no2
Apocalypse At this last, note that I top the Killmail, while Geddon and Ishtar started warping as soon as I tackled.
Indeed, Blasters are weak.
I think the main trend in this thread was to agree that small blasters are more then fine and usually the ships in this class are the top of the field, ishkur and taranis being the 2 best imo af/inty's however this trend does not continue into BC/Cruiser/BS hulls
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
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Posted - 2009.03.09 22:28:00 -
[129]
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean
Originally by: NightmareX
And also, yeah it's cheaper, but who cares about isk on sisi. Isk is worthless on sisi anyways. What does the cheap items have to do with the testing to do?. I would still test all the same things if it have been 1 mill per item on market. it wouldn't make a damn difference.
You do not test on sissi you play on sissi cos your favorite style has no real application on TQ.
Originally by: NightmareX
To the second thing about rigs. It's not useless when everybody else on sisi is using t2 rigs and Slaves / Crystal sets.
It will rather get useless for me to test with t1 rigs and no implants against everybody else with t2 rigs and Slaves and Crystal sets. But hey, your to dumb to get it.
Its you who do not get it as you just owned yourself...
IF you do "tests" as you say you do (and lie about) then its just as easy to arrange for your testing teams/members to fit T1 rigs and no implants (or only the basic ones most ppl fit on TQ) as it is to pimp out their ships with HG implants and T2 rigs.
You would know that and do it if you had a clue about real time testing on TQ, but you do not test you play with HG/pimped fits cheaply in a controlled enviroment.
I use sisi to test out things. When i need to test out a new setup to a ship, then i'm logging on to Sisi right on.
And why do you goes emo rage over that everyone on sisi is using HG implants and t2 rigs?. EVERYONE IS USING THOSE THERE. Don't you get it?.
If peoples on sisi wouldn't use t2 rigs there, then i wouldn't use it either, because my tests wouldn't be acurate if i had been using t2 rigs then.
Yeah FFA 1 is very controlled environment.
And so you know it. The tests is do in my pimped Navy Mega there is tests that isn't taken into my results there.
Only normal ships with t2 fittings is taken into the picture there. Because taking a faction / Deadspace / deadspace fitted Navy Mega against a normal Raven is soooooooo gonna make my results very good.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Ig Neus
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Posted - 2009.03.09 22:30:00 -
[130]
Originally by: Dethis
I think the main trend in this thread was to agree that small blasters are more then fine and usually the ships in this class are the top of the field, ishkur and taranis being the 2 best imo af/inty's however this trend does not continue into BC/Cruiser/BS hulls
You managed to answer before I edited it. If you or anybody else wants to check if Blasters on a Cruiser suck, you are welcome to come to Tash-Murkon and try it with my Thorax. Just make sure you bring an expensive fitting as well :)
I do not like soloing in BC or bigger ships however. Still I got no answer to my previous question about the Brutix. Can anyone think of a Tier 1 Battlecruiser that is even remotely close to being as used as this Blaster ship? Ferox? Prophecy? Cyclone? There must be a reason for that, right?
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Koloch
Amarr
Warriors Lost
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Posted - 2009.03.09 22:37:00 -
[131]
NightmareX, you I kind of see your point regarding leveling the testing field, but it is a bit flawed. Nobody is going to put 400mil isk worth of rigs on a 80 mil BS -or atleast there are very few. With that in mind you are adding too many variables to the test case and assume that pirate implants + t2 rigs are balanced.
I've done a fair bit of testing on sisi and I've never flown anything that I couldn't afford to fly on TQ. Limabeanguy is correct in saying that if you want to call your tests valid then you should be testing against TQ realistic ship setups/implant configs.
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marakor
Gallente
Anti Lag Forum Smackers
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Posted - 2009.03.09 22:38:00 -
[132]
Originally by: Ig Neus
I do not like soloing in BC or bigger ships however. Still I got no answer to my previous question about the Brutix. Can anyone think of a Tier 1 Battlecruiser that is even remotely close to being as used as this Blaster ship? Ferox? Prophecy? Cyclone? There must be a reason for that, right?
Im not going to bite on the Tier 1 only part of your post as it a poor way to limit a selection when a player has the option of either.
The Drake, Harbi and Cane are more used than the Brutix or the Myrm though.
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
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Posted - 2009.03.09 22:41:00 -
[133]
Edited by: NightmareX on 09/03/2009 22:42:16
Originally by: Koloch
NightmareX, you I kind of see your point regarding leveling the testing field, but it is a bit flawed. Nobody is going to put 400mil isk worth of rigs on a 80 mil BS -or atleast there are very few. With that in mind you are adding too many variables to the test case and assume that pirate implants + t2 rigs are balanced.
I've done a fair bit of testing on sisi and I've never flown anything that I couldn't afford to fly on TQ. Limabeanguy is correct in saying that if you want to call your tests valid then you should be testing against TQ realistic ship setups/implant configs.
Well i see your point.
But to bad, there isn't anything i can do with the t2 rigs and implants. When everyone is using those i can't just tell them to take all of it off just because i want to use my t1 rigged and no implanted character in a Tempest for example to be as much realistic as TQ.
I have to take the fighting as much realistic as it can get on sisi. And still make sure it get's as much realistic as TQ as possible.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Dethis
Caldari
Queens of the Stone Age
Rote Kapelle
|
Posted - 2009.03.09 22:43:00 -
[134]
Originally by: marakor
Originally by: Ig Neus
I do not like soloing in BC or bigger ships however. Still I got no answer to my previous question about the Brutix. Can anyone think of a Tier 1 Battlecruiser that is even remotely close to being as used as this Blaster ship? Ferox? Prophecy? Cyclone? There must be a reason for that, right?
Im not going to bite on the Tier 1 only part of your post as it a poor way to limit a selection when a player has the option of either.
The Drake, Harbi and Cane are more used than the Brutix or the Myrm though.
This is what i was just about to post.
The cane and harbi are far more used then any gallente BC t1 or not simply because they are more versatile and usefull in small to large gangs
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UMEE
Tactical Initiative
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Posted - 2009.03.09 22:46:00 -
[135]
Originally by: Esmenet
Originally by: UMEE
lasers > drones > projectiles > hybrids > missiles
Drones have many limitations that makes them useless in many pvp situations. Turrets in general always work wich makes them the perfect pvp weapon. Drones and missiles cant really be compared with turrets as they have their moment in some situations and completely suck in others.
sentries. which turrets work? i would say only lasers "generally work" in "most" situations. minnies have autocannons, which are awesome, despite dps being on the lower side. no reason to choose railguns over lasers. and blasters have too many limitations as is being discussed. did i miss anything?
reason i listed drones as a weapon system is due to some really good drone boats out there. obviously, without the ishtar/domi, drones wouldnt really be a weapon system. so what im saying is: once u can load out heavies, sentries, ECM, and light drones there are very few situations you cant deal with.
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Ig Neus
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Posted - 2009.03.09 22:48:00 -
[136]
Edited by: Ig Neus on 09/03/2009 22:48:19
Originally by: marakor
Im not going to bite on the Tier 1 only part of your post as it a poor way to limit a selection when a player has the option of either.
The Drake, Harbi and Cane are more used than the Brutix or the Myrm though.
The difference in the prices of a Brutix and Harbinger where I live is more than the difference between a Harbinger and a Dominix. So there is a good reason to limit the choices to Tier 1 BCs. Unless Isk is not an issue but it actually IS for most people PvPing.
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sophisticatedlimabean
Gallente
Delinquent Habits
|
Posted - 2009.03.09 22:49:00 -
[137]
Originally by: NightmareX
I use sisi to test out things. When i need to test out a new setup to a ship, then i'm logging on to Sisi right on.
And why do you goes emo rage over that everyone on sisi is using HG implants and t2 rigs?. EVERYONE IS USING THOSE THERE. Don't you get it?.
That is because most ppl on sissi are like YOU and use sissi to play with fits they would never use on TQ, instead of actually fitting the same way they do on TQ and organizing proper tests.
I use TQ fits with T1 rigs + cheap implants and so do the ppl who i test with because the tests we do are going to be applied on TQ.
You just play with expensive fits that have no application on TQ, then try to convince yourself and others that your sissi warrior "skills" make you a experienced and knowledgable pvper...they do not at least not ob TQ.
My views may reflect those of my corp/alliance, but if you wanna know for sure ask em for gods sake. |
Dethis
Caldari
Queens of the Stone Age
Rote Kapelle
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Posted - 2009.03.09 22:50:00 -
[138]
Originally by: Ig Neus
Edited by: Ig Neus on 09/03/2009 22:48:19
Originally by: marakor
Im not going to bite on the Tier 1 only part of your post as it a poor way to limit a selection when a player has the option of either.
The Drake, Harbi and Cane are more used than the Brutix or the Myrm though.
The difference in the prices of a Brutix and Harbinger where I live is more than the difference between a Harbinger and a Dominix. So there is a good reason to limit the choices to Tier 1 BCs. Unless Isk is not an issue but it actually IS for most people PvPing.
Being insurable kind of makes that a non factor unless you are pretty broke
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The Djego
Minmatar
merovinger inc
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Posted - 2009.03.09 22:52:00 -
[139]
Originally by: Ig Neus
Originally by: Dethis
I think the main trend in this thread was to agree that small blasters are more then fine and usually the ships in this class are the top of the field, ishkur and taranis being the 2 best imo af/inty's however this trend does not continue into BC/Cruiser/BS hulls
You managed to answer before I edited it. If you or anybody else wants to check if Blasters on a Cruiser suck, you are welcome to come to Tash-Murkon and try it with my Thorax. Just make sure you bring an expensive fitting as well :)
I do not like soloing in BC or bigger ships however. Still I got no answer to my previous question about the Brutix. Can anyone think of a Tier 1 Battlecruiser that is even remotely close to being as used as this Blaster ship? Ferox? Prophecy? Cyclone? There must be a reason for that, right?
Could pay you a visit after the patch. 
Because the Myrmidon is a Drone Ship and the Brutix is a Gunship(both are diffrent instead of bigger = better).
Cyclone -> Hurricane both Gunships.
Prophecy -> Harbinger both Gunships.
Ferox -> Drake(Gunship -> Missleship, but more related to sniping)
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Nerf Tank - Boost Gank!
Originally by: Amantus
Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
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Posted - 2009.03.09 22:52:00 -
[140]
Edited by: NightmareX on 09/03/2009 22:54:54
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean
That is because most ppl on sissi are like YOU and use sissi to play with fits they would never use on TQ, instead of actually fitting the same way they do on TQ and organizing proper tests.
I use TQ fits with T1 rigs + cheap implants and so do the ppl who i test with because the tests we do are going to be applied on TQ.
You just play with expensive fits that have no application on TQ, then try to convince yourself and others that your sissi warrior "skills" make you a experienced and knowledgable pvper...they do not at least not ob TQ.
Rabble rabble rabble, whine whine whine.
More excuses i can read?, so i have something to laught at while i eat food.
LOL yeah, T2 fits are very expensive and they have no application on TQ, yeah, you hear the man.
So my Navy mega is more important than all of the 436879674934965798567489567849 ships i'm testing out on sisi?.
It's a single ship i use to test out sometimes when i'm bored.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
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marakor
Gallente
Anti Lag Forum Smackers
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Posted - 2009.03.09 22:53:00 -
[141]
Originally by: Ig Neus
Originally by: marakor
Im not going to bite on the Tier 1 only part of your post as it a poor way to limit a selection when a player has the option of either.
The Drake, Harbi and Cane are more used than the Brutix or the Myrm though.
The difference in the prices of a Brutix and Harbinger where I live is more than the difference between a Harbinger and a Dominix. So there is a good reason to limit the choices to Tier 1 BCs. Unless Isk is not an issue but it actually IS for most people PvPing.
After insurance has been taken into account its not going to be a particularly large or significant difference for a regular pvper/player.
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sophisticatedlimabean
Gallente
Delinquent Habits
|
Posted - 2009.03.09 22:58:00 -
[142]
Edited by: sophisticatedlimabean on 09/03/2009 22:59:36
Originally by: NightmareX
LOL yeah, T2 fits are very expensive and they have no application on TQ, yeah, you hear the man.
I said it and il repeat it!!!!!!!!!!.
T2 rigs and HG implants ect ect have no place on a ship if you are doing valid testing for TQ conventional gang combat.....and you think that they do????????....can you say "utterly out of touch?".
My views may reflect those of my corp/alliance, but if you wanna know for sure ask em for gods sake. |
Fistme
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Posted - 2009.03.09 23:01:00 -
[143]
Originally by: Smokeyblood
Originally by: Fistme
Blasters are good for 1v1, lasers are better for everything else. Guess how often people 1v1.
So to reply to the OP before I get myself off topic I suggest you train for the zealot and later try and skill up to the geddon and apoc. Geddon is king of RR med range fleet battles, Apoc is king of long range fleet battles! The Zealot is a great ship for roaming hac gangs and is very effective with both pulse and beams!
Now for the Blaster Whine! (you all knew it was coming)
Now I think most people that are at least mildly objective about the current state of PVP understand that Blasters could be much better in their point blank role to add a little diversity to small and medium sized gangs that are currently dominated by the RR, high EHP, long range DPS of the Amarr ships.
What I propose is to increase the dps of medium and large blasters by 5-7% while also increase the amount of cap they use(oh noes! a trade off!). I do not think that any adjustment to small blasters is needed as the ships they are commonly fitted to are doing amazingly well, if not too well! A scaled buff to blasters across the entire lineup would most certainly make these ships (taranis, ishkur) far too potent.
How does minmitar fit in to this scheme? worth training or just stick with amarr
Well to be honest I really don't have allot of flight time in minny ships however I've flown with many experianced pilots and understand the general advantages and disadvantages that they posses.
The first bright light that I noticed with minny ships is their awsome t1 cruisers. Rupter with a 1600mm plate is a close range beast and the stabber is a fantastic low SP heavy tackler with the ability to outrun almost anything that has the potential to knock it out. As for their t2 frigs, the stilleto is bar none the best of the inty tacklers. It has unmatched speed and handling while sporting enough mid slots to tackle and be nearly nos proof. The Jaguar and Wolf are both decent however I feal that Gallente have better options in the AF department. Now to the vaga, oh the vaga :P. Big stabber with perfect resist bonus to make a LSE you fit give a fantastic amount of ehp. Minmatar also have a great BC, the Hurricane. They also grant you one of the best if not the best Command ship for solo ops, the Sleipner. As for BS, I don't really have much insight as i've never flown one. The Maelstorm can sport one hell of a tank while cramming it's lows with gyrostabs though, great close range fire support platform for gate humping.
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
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Posted - 2009.03.09 23:11:00 -
[144]
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean
Edited by: sophisticatedlimabean on 09/03/2009 22:59:36
Originally by: NightmareX
LOL yeah, T2 fits are very expensive and they have no application on TQ, yeah, you hear the man.
I said it and il repeat it!!!!!!!!!!.
T2 rigs and HG implants ect ect have no place on a ship if you are doing valid testing for TQ conventional gang combat.....and you think that they do????????....can you say "utterly out of touch?".
Ok, first, your still to dumb to see what i have explained over about the t2 rigs and hg implants on sisi. It's how it is, we just have to live with it. It's nothing i can change.
And 2nd. Your reported for taking this topic way off topic. Can't i tell something about how Blasters is without you coming here and do your whining and take the topic out off topic by bringing in my ECM Tempest on sisi into the picture?.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
sophisticatedlimabean
Gallente
Delinquent Habits
|
Posted - 2009.03.09 23:18:00 -
[145]
Edited by: sophisticatedlimabean on 09/03/2009 23:20:53
Originally by: NightmareX
Ok, first, your still to dumb to see what i have explained over about the t2 rigs and hg implants on sisi. It's how it is, we just have to live with it. It's nothing i can change.
You are to dumb to see how using modules not regularly used on TQ make your results worthless.
Originally by: NightmareX
And 2nd. Your reported for taking this topic way off topic. Can't i tell something about how Blasters is without you coming here and do your whining and take the topic out off topic by bringing in my ECM Tempest on sisi into the picture?.
Questioning the competence and experience of the pilot, methods used in testing, plus the modules and ships you used to justify your post is perfectly ON TOPIC.
And through that questioning we have found that you are a sissi warrior who uses unrealistic fits and some times ships that are not used regularly or at all in some cases on TQ, and PLAYS more on sissi than he does any actual valid or worthwhile testing.
PS: Its you who brought your sissi warrior ECMPEST into this discussion not me, you may not have done so on this thread but you used it for reference on another thread several times that was on the exact same subject BLASTERS.
My views may reflect those of my corp/alliance, but if you wanna know for sure ask em for gods sake. |
Esmenet
Gallente
|
Posted - 2009.03.09 23:23:00 -
[146]
Edited by: Esmenet on 09/03/2009 23:23:41
Originally by: UMEE
reason i listed drones as a weapon system is due to some really good drone boats out there. obviously, without the ishtar/domi, drones wouldnt really be a weapon system. so what im saying is: once u can load out heavies, sentries, ECM, and light drones there are very few situations you cant deal with.
Obviously there are only 2 real droneboats. But here is some problems: Posbashing, fleetfights, low sec, some types of hac gangs. Yes sentries have fewer/different drawbacks, but in many cases you have to be willing to run away from your drones if things dont go your way and then you lose what 5-10 mill for a set of t2 Garde or whatever type you use and probably have to go somewhere to fill up your dronebay again. And then i havent even considered the possibility of your drones getting blown up. Drones worked pretty good in the old closerange nanogangs when i used a nanoishtar, but i hardly ever use droneboats anymore even though my best race is still gallente.
Maybe i didnt make it clear but even if railguns do less dps than lasers you can still hit stuff when using it. You dont get in the situations like drone/missile users in gangs where your weapons are popped so you cant do any damage, or they are so slow the target is gone by the time your missiles reach a target. If you cant use blasters due to range issues you can still use railguns with the same skills. So if you only use one weapon system it should be turrets, energy, projectile or hybrids.
Drones need a revamp and the droneboats should be more focused around drones.
But now we are far off topic.
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Takeshi Yamato
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Posted - 2009.03.09 23:25:00 -
[147]
At BS level the dps advantage of blasters isn't as big as at cruiser and frig level.
--> boost large blaster dps a little bit.
Range too short on blasters? Let Null give more range but less dps. Can't have equal range and better damage than other weapon systems.
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Esmenet
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.03.09 23:28:00 -
[148]
Originally by: NightmareX
Ok, first, your still to dumb to see what i have explained over about the t2 rigs and hg implants on sisi. It's how it is, we just have to live with it. It's nothing i can change.
And 2nd. Your reported for taking this topic way off topic. Can't i tell something about how Blasters is without you coming here and do your whining and take the topic out off topic by bringing in my ECM Tempest on sisi into the picture?.
This topic is not about my Tempest on sisi.
You just owned yourself for the n'th time in this topic. And you cant say anything about how blasters is because you dont really use it in a real setting.
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
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Posted - 2009.03.09 23:32:00 -
[149]
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean
Originally by: NightmareX
Ok, first, your still to dumb to see what i have explained over about the t2 rigs and hg implants on sisi. It's how it is, we just have to live with it. It's nothing i can change.
You are to dumb to see how using modules not regularly used on TQ make your results worthless.
Originally by: NightmareX
And 2nd. Your reported for taking this topic way off topic. Can't i tell something about how Blasters is without you coming here and do your whining and take the topic out off topic by bringing in my ECM Tempest on sisi into the picture?.
Questioning the competence and experience of the pilot, methods used in testing, plus the modules and ships you used to justify your post is perfectly ON TOPIC.
And through that questioning we have found that you are a sissi warrior who uses unrealistic fits and some times ships that are not used regularly or at all in some cases on TQ, and PLAYS more on sissi than he does any actual valid or worthwhile testing.
You first say this: You are to dumb to see how using modules not regularly used on TQ make your results worthless.
And your still to dumb to see that EVERYONE ON SISI is using Slaves and that + t2 rigs. Why should i not use it then?. Can you answer me that?.
It's not like i can just say bam and then everyone is using t1 rigs and no hg implants on sisi.
I don't care about what you say about TQ, all i think about is to test on Sisi and test after how sisi is. Get it?.
I can't just use same setups and that only because that's TQ. And because everyone on Sisi is using t2 rigs and hg implants on sisi, then i will do it to.
Maybe you should go and whine to CCP that they should remove t2 rigs and hg implants from sisi so you can get happy.
My Blaster Mega will not be any worser if i have t1 rigs and no slaves on then, because if CCP have removed those, then no one else have it on sisi.
So your point is?.
And you tell me that i'm a Sisi warrior. Ok, your an EFT warrier then.
Who would any of you here trust between an EFT warrior who only looks at some numbers and a player (me) who actually use things and test it out on sisi and get some results?.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Koloch
Amarr
Warriors Lost
|
Posted - 2009.03.09 23:34:00 -
[150]
Originally by: NightmareX
Edited by: NightmareX on 09/03/2009 22:42:16
Originally by: Koloch
NightmareX, you I kind of see your point regarding leveling the testing field, but it is a bit flawed. Nobody is going to put 400mil isk worth of rigs on a 80 mil BS -or atleast there are very few. With that in mind you are adding too many variables to the test case and assume that pirate implants + t2 rigs are balanced.
I've done a fair bit of testing on sisi and I've never flown anything that I couldn't afford to fly on TQ. Limabeanguy is correct in saying that if you want to call your tests valid then you should be testing against TQ realistic ship setups/implant configs.
Well i see your point.
But to bad, there isn't anything i can do with the t2 rigs and implants. When everyone is using those i can't just tell them to take all of it off just because i want to use my t1 rigged and no implanted character in a Tempest for example to be as much realistic as TQ.
I have to take the fighting as much realistic as it can get on sisi. And still make sure it get's as much realistic as TQ as possible.
Well there are a few people that probably wouldn't mind doing that. I guess it wouldn't hurt to ask. There are players that do log on to do valid testing. Having said that the thing I hate most about sisi is it's more about people interested in playing the arcade version of eve then actually testing.
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
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Posted - 2009.03.09 23:38:00 -
[151]
Originally by: Koloch
Originally by: NightmareX
Edited by: NightmareX on 09/03/2009 22:42:16
Originally by: Koloch
NightmareX, you I kind of see your point regarding leveling the testing field, but it is a bit flawed. Nobody is going to put 400mil isk worth of rigs on a 80 mil BS -or atleast there are very few. With that in mind you are adding too many variables to the test case and assume that pirate implants + t2 rigs are balanced.
I've done a fair bit of testing on sisi and I've never flown anything that I couldn't afford to fly on TQ. Limabeanguy is correct in saying that if you want to call your tests valid then you should be testing against TQ realistic ship setups/implant configs.
Well i see your point.
But to bad, there isn't anything i can do with the t2 rigs and implants. When everyone is using those i can't just tell them to take all of it off just because i want to use my t1 rigged and no implanted character in a Tempest for example to be as much realistic as TQ.
I have to take the fighting as much realistic as it can get on sisi. And still make sure it get's as much realistic as TQ as possible.
Well there are a few people that probably wouldn't mind doing that. I guess it wouldn't hurt to ask. There are players that do log on to do valid testing. Having said that the thing I hate most about sisi is it's more about people interested in playing the arcade version of eve then actually testing.
Well, i don't really think my Mega would be any worser without t2 rigs and hg slave implants. Because if the other player are doing the same, then we are then again at the same place if you know what i mean.
Putting on a T2 rig to get 5% more speed for example is totally the same as CCP just gives us 5% more HP to all ships on sisi.
The fights wont be any different only because we get 5% more hp on our ships.
I hope you see what i'm trying to say here.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Smokeyblood
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Posted - 2009.03.09 23:38:00 -
[152]
The arguing over Tq/Sisi stuff going on in this thread is completely avoiding the point of this thread which was should the OP spec amarr or Minmatar basically.
Would prefer to see that discussion then the current one going on TBQH
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sophisticatedlimabean
Gallente
Delinquent Habits
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Posted - 2009.03.09 23:39:00 -
[153]
Originally by: NightmareX
You first say this: You are to dumb to see how using modules not regularly used on TQ make your results worthless.
And your still to dumb to see that EVERYONE ON SISI is using Slaves and that + t2 rigs. Why should i not use it then?. Can you answer me that?.
Its already been explained you are just to inexperienced to see it.
Oh and NOT EVERYONE ON SISSI USES HG IMPLANTS AND T2 RIGS, a lot of us use sissi for the valid and realistic testing of fits we use on TQ instead of playing with things we do not.
My views may reflect those of my corp/alliance, but if you wanna know for sure ask em for gods sake. |
Esmenet
Gallente
|
Posted - 2009.03.09 23:40:00 -
[154]
Originally by: NightmareX
And your still to dumb to see that EVERYONE ON SISI is using Slaves and that + t2 rigs. Why should i not use it then?. Can you answer me that?.
Who cares your "tests" are still worthless. It doesnt matter why you use unrealistic setups in a fixed environment.
If you really wanted to "test" the least you could do is find some other "testers" and "test" more realistic setups. But it would be far easier if you just used blasters on tq for a month and come back with a new post filled with your killmails.
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Koloch
Amarr
Warriors Lost
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Posted - 2009.03.09 23:42:00 -
[155]
Originally by: NightmareX
Who would any of you here trust between an EFT warrior who only looks at some numbers or a player (me) who actually use things and test it out on sisi and get some results?.
Neither You have to look at balancing from all angles.
..this is what makes it extremely difficult and why a lot of people don't understand that their "simple" fix to a balancing issue really isn't the best option or actually needed. It's also very difficult for people to be objective when it involves a ship(s) they have invested a lot of training time skill for.
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Sabrage
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Posted - 2009.03.09 23:45:00 -
[156]
In Apocrypha, training Infomorph Psychology V will allow you to automatically whine about balance on the forums on death.
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sophisticatedlimabean
Gallente
Delinquent Habits
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Posted - 2009.03.09 23:49:00 -
[157]
Originally by: NightmareX
Well, i don't really think my Mega would be any worser without t2 rigs and hg slave implants. Because if the other player are doing the same, then we are then again at the same place if you know what i mean.
The fights wont be any different only because we get 5% more hp on our ships.
I hope you see what i'm trying to say here.
What you are saying is naive and clueless.
if i am flying a ship that needs cap to fire vs a ship that does not need cap to fire those extra HP the T2 rigs and slaves give will allow the ship i am shooting at to last longer than it would on TQ and causing me more cap problems than i would normally have to deal with on TQ.
Now i can be using T2 armour rigs and slaves as well but it does not make any difference cos while i have capped out before popping the hostile ship cos of the extra HP it has from the rigs ect ect, the ship i am fighting does not need cap so it continues to chew me up.
This is just one example of how using T2 armour rigs instead of T1 and using slave sets can skew valid results, let alone when you apply the same very basic idea to the other HG implants and rigs.
My views may reflect those of my corp/alliance, but if you wanna know for sure ask em for gods sake. |
sophisticatedlimabean
Gallente
Delinquent Habits
|
Posted - 2009.03.09 23:55:00 -
[158]
Edited by: sophisticatedlimabean on 09/03/2009 23:55:42
Originally by: Koloch
Originally by: NightmareX
Who would any of you here trust between an EFT warrior who only looks at some numbers or a player (me) who actually use things and test it out on sisi and get some results?.
Neither
A valid sissi warrior with no clue about TQ pvp...
NightmareX
Kills: 209
Losses: 22
Oh and just in case you are interested..
ME
Losses: 130
Kills: 2,148
Mine are pvp kills of various types/styles, no smart bombing bubble camp kills or other exploits to boost numbers.
My views may reflect those of my corp/alliance, but if you wanna know for sure ask em for gods sake. |
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.03.09 23:56:00 -
[159]
sophisticatedlimabean, i have a question to you.
Can you give us a reason on why Blasters sucks?. Give us an explanation like i did earlier in this post. Tell us exactly what your doing in your Megathron that makes is so crappy with Blasters.
Remember to give us info on what ships you have been fighting and how many they are etc.
It's your turn to give a reason here instead of going emo rage and whine like a ****** like every noobs are doing.
When you give us a detailed reason why Blasters are crap, then i'm gonna accept it.
But before that, whine as much as you can. I'm just fun to have something funny to read while i eat this pizza.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Robert Rumpletweezer
Minmatar
Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2009.03.09 23:56:00 -
[160]
I had written a massive balanced argument but I got bored.
The tl;dr version is:
BS RR Gang wise: 5-15man gang size, very little to choose between Gallente and Amarr. Both have there strengths and weaknesses in this department. I fly both and both are great. At close range engagements, the majority of the killmails are topped by Megathrons. During longer engagements, the Armageddons usually take over, given there ability to swap ranges instantly. As for Apocs, Abaddons, Dominixes and Hyperions, these generally take a back-seat since Domis don't have the PG for many guns, Hyps make crap buffers, Abaddons lack 125m drone bay, and Apocs don't receive a damage bonus.
HAC/CS wise: Strength generally lies with the Amarr ships. The range discrepancy in this field is too great for Medium Blasters to be viable over Medium Lasers.
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
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Posted - 2009.03.09 23:57:00 -
[161]
Edited by: NightmareX on 10/03/2009 00:00:05
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean
Edited by: sophisticatedlimabean on 09/03/2009 23:55:42
Originally by: Koloch
Originally by: NightmareX
Who would any of you here trust between an EFT warrior who only looks at some numbers or a player (me) who actually use things and test it out on sisi and get some results?.
Neither
A valid sissi warrior with no clue about TQ pvp...
NightmareX
Kills: 209
Losses: 22
Oh and just in case you are interested..
ME
Losses: 130
Kills: 2,148
Mine are pvp kills of various types/styles, no smart bombing bubble camp kills or other exploits to boost numbers.
The e-peen stroke in that reply is just awesome.
Wow, 2k kills. You must be the king pvper in EVE dude. **** me, 2k kills. I want you to be my PVP hero.
Originally by: Robert Rumpletweezer
I had written a massive balanced argument but I got bored.
The tl;dr version is:
BS RR Gang wise: 5-15man gang size, very little to choose between Gallente and Amarr. Both have there strengths and weaknesses in this department. I fly both and both are great. At close range engagements, the majority of the killmails are topped by Megathrons. During longer engagements, the Armageddons usually take over, given there ability to swap ranges instantly. As for Apocs, Abaddons, Dominixes and Hyperions, these generally take a back-seat since Domis don't have the PG for many guns, Hyps make crap buffers, Abaddons lack 125m drone bay, and Apocs don't receive a damage bonus.
HAC/CS wise: Strength generally lies with the Amarr ships. The range discrepancy in this field is too great for Medium Blasters to be viable over Medium Lasers.
Exactly.
Someone in this topic is way to dumb to understand that.
Every ship in eve have it's drawback and everyships have it's good things. But every ships are both good and crap in totally different ways.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
sophisticatedlimabean
Gallente
Delinquent Habits
|
Posted - 2009.03.09 23:59:00 -
[162]
Edited by: sophisticatedlimabean on 09/03/2009 23:59:53
Originally by: NightmareX
Can you give us a reason on why Blasters sucks?.
Explanations have been given multiple times you are just too inexperienced in TQ pvp and too obsessed with your pimped and unrealistic sissi pvp (as your silly explanations show) to understand them.
My views may reflect those of my corp/alliance, but if you wanna know for sure ask em for gods sake. |
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.03.10 00:02:00 -
[163]
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean
Edited by: sophisticatedlimabean on 09/03/2009 23:59:53
Originally by: NightmareX
Can you give us a reason on why Blasters sucks?.
Explanations have been given multiple times you are just too inexperienced in TQ pvp and too obsessed with your pimped and unrealistic sissi pvp (as your silly explanations show) to understand them.
LOL
All your whining have been about is: OMG HALP. BLASTERS SUCKS BECAUSE I FAILED TO USE THEM RIGHT AND IN THE RIGHT SITUATION, AND THEN SAW THAT BLASTERS DIDN'T PERFORM SO GOOD, SO THEY SUCKS WAAAAAH WAAAAH WAAAAAH.
The day you start to use the weapons right, the day i will start to listen to you to.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
sophisticatedlimabean
Gallente
Delinquent Habits
|
Posted - 2009.03.10 00:04:00 -
[164]
Edited by: sophisticatedlimabean on 10/03/2009 00:05:35
Originally by: NightmareX
The day you start to use the weapons right, the day i will start to listen to you to.
The day you have a extra 0 on the end of your pitiful TQ kill count you MAY be capable of understanding what i and others have posted multiple times.
My views may reflect those of my corp/alliance, but if you wanna know for sure ask em for gods sake. |
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.03.10 00:08:00 -
[165]
Edited by: NightmareX on 10/03/2009 00:08:41
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean
Edited by: sophisticatedlimabean on 10/03/2009 00:06:58
Originally by: NightmareX
The day you start to use the weapons right, the day i will start to listen to you to.
ALL you say is "WAAA I HIDE ON SISSI ALL DAY PLAYING WITH UNREALISTIC FITS AND THINK I KNOW ABOUT PVP ON TQ"...
The day you have a extra 0 on the end of your pitiful TQ kill count you MAY be capable of understanding what i and others have posted multiple times.
Heh. And what about the BOOST BLASTER topic?. How many there told you that you was wrong?. Naaaaaaah, those doesn't cound at all, naaaah.
Reported again for bringing in Sisi here.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
sophisticatedlimabean
Gallente
Delinquent Habits
|
Posted - 2009.03.10 00:12:00 -
[166]
Originally by: NightmareX
Heh. And what about the BOOST BLASTER topic?. How many there told you that you was wrong?. Naaaaaaah, those doesn't cound at all, naaaah.
A lot less than told me i was right, most ppl agree blasters (especially BS blasters) have a problem on TQ its only you and a very few others that think other wise.
You because you are a cluless sissi warrior, and gourm cos he is all about boosting amarr or at least keeping them the best race for TQ combat.
My views may reflect those of my corp/alliance, but if you wanna know for sure ask em for gods sake. |
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.03.10 00:13:00 -
[167]
Edited by: NightmareX on 10/03/2009 00:13:44
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean
You because you are a cluless sissi warrior, and gourm cos he is all about boosting amarr or at least keeping them the best race for TQ combat.
Tripple reported for bringing something in here that doesn't have anything with this topic to do.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
sophisticatedlimabean
Gallente
Delinquent Habits
|
Posted - 2009.03.10 00:14:00 -
[168]
Originally by: NightmareX
Reported again for bringing in Sisi here.
YOU brought sissi on here cos that is where you PLAY eve and your so called pvp XP comes from.
My views may reflect those of my corp/alliance, but if you wanna know for sure ask em for gods sake. |
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.03.10 00:17:00 -
[169]
Edited by: NightmareX on 10/03/2009 00:17:00
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean
Originally by: NightmareX
Reported again for bringing in Sisi here.
YOU brought sissi on here cos that is where you PLAY eve and your so called pvp XP comes from.
Where did i bring in Sisi here?: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1016708&page=4#103
Reported again for lying about me.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Koloch
Amarr
Warriors Lost
|
Posted - 2009.03.10 00:18:00 -
[170]
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean
Edited by: sophisticatedlimabean on 09/03/2009 23:55:42
Originally by: Koloch
Originally by: NightmareX
Who would any of you here trust between an EFT warrior who only looks at some numbers or a player (me) who actually use things and test it out on sisi and get some results?.
Neither
A valid sissi warrior with no clue about TQ pvp...
NightmareX
Kills: 209
Losses: 22
Oh and just in case you are interested..
ME
Losses: 130
Kills: 2,148
Mine are pvp kills of various types/styles, no smart bombing bubble camp kills or other exploits to boost numbers.
Kills have a lot more to do with the combined skill of your corp/alliance you're in and not really a fair measure of personal skill level. Your previous corp, Burn Eden, is known for coming up with very clever tactics for gate camping -like the nano hyenas/sniper combo. Looking at some of your past kills you are either in a falcon, hyena, nano ishtar or sniper mega. I didn't look at all of your kills, but I failed to see any Blaster Mega losses.
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sophisticatedlimabean
Gallente
Delinquent Habits
|
Posted - 2009.03.10 00:18:00 -
[171]
Originally by: NightmareX
Tripple reported for bringing something in here that doesn't have anything with this topic to do.
If replying to your question in detail with names and reasons is a reportable offense then you should report yourself for asking the question in the first place.
Heh. And what about the BOOST BLASTER topic?. How many there told you that you was wrong?. Naaaaaaah, those doesn't cound at all, naaaah.
Il do it for you...constant trolling, unhelpful comments, aggressive/argumentative off topic posting and pointless childsish reporting because of losing a argument....
My views may reflect those of my corp/alliance, but if you wanna know for sure ask em for gods sake. |
sophisticatedlimabean
Gallente
Delinquent Habits
|
Posted - 2009.03.10 00:21:00 -
[172]
Edited by: sophisticatedlimabean on 10/03/2009 00:25:14
Originally by: Koloch
Kills have a lot more to do with the combined skill of your corp/alliance you're in and not really a fair measure of personal skill level. Your previous corp, Burn Eden, is known for coming up with very clever tactics for gate camping -like the nano hyenas/sniper combo. Looking at some of your past kills you are either in a falcon, hyena, nano ishtar or sniper mega. I didn't look at all of your kills, but I failed to see any Blaster Mega losses.
That is because if blaster megas were worth flying i would do so......
I could hardly claim they were poor and in need of help then use them as my ship of choice now could i?...anyway losses are of less importance than dmg done and effectiveness in gang relative to other ships of the same class.
PS: Effective teamwork skills are the height of combat skills in eve there is not greater ability to be competent at as a individual.
Dividing up personal/individual skills and teamwork skills is foolish as most pvp in eve is gang pvp and as such the skills are totally combined if you want to succeed when in a fight.
My views may reflect those of my corp/alliance, but if you wanna know for sure ask em for gods sake. |
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.03.10 00:21:00 -
[173]
Edited by: NightmareX on 10/03/2009 00:24:36
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean
Originally by: NightmareX
Tripple reported for bringing something in here that doesn't have anything with this topic to do.
If replying to your question in detail with names and reasons is a reportable offense then you should report yourself for asking the question in the first place.
Heh. And what about the BOOST BLASTER topic?. How many there told you that you was wrong?. Naaaaaaah, those doesn't cound at all, naaaah.
Il do it for you...constant trolling, unhelpful comments, aggressive/argumentative off topic posting and pointless childsish reporting because of losing a argument....
Uhm yeah, all of those who told me that i was wrong was either 4397534789537895 alts of some Blaster noobs in that topic, or it was those 658084854068409 noob alts who belonged to you. So those doesn't count.
And most of those didn't even had a corp or alliance ticker on, or they was also in npc corps.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.03.10 00:28:00 -
[174]
Edited by: NightmareX on 10/03/2009 00:30:54
Anyways, as the last question to you sophisticatedlimabean.
Can you answer me why Blasters works so good for me in most ways?, and can you also answer me why i have never had any problems with Blasters?.
Is it because i do things right?, or.................................
That's the only answer i want from you.
If you can prove me that Blasters are crap, while they work pretty good for me atm, then i will forgive you and say that i'm a sisi noob and that i really sucks.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
sophisticatedlimabean
Gallente
Delinquent Habits
|
Posted - 2009.03.10 00:29:00 -
[175]
Originally by: NightmareX
exaggerated rant
/ignore exaggerating emo troll.
My views may reflect those of my corp/alliance, but if you wanna know for sure ask em for gods sake. |
Tzar'rim
|
Posted - 2009.03.10 00:30:00 -
[176]
Edited by: Tzar''rim on 10/03/2009 00:30:46
Regardless of UnsophisticatedWhinaBean's overzealous way of trying to state that the ships he flies mostly suck I have to agree with the Sisi bit. Things are so completely out of whack because of the T2 rigs and silly implants that you simply can not translate it to normal pvp on TQ.
I don't log on sisi much because of that, IF I go there I test setups, implants and rigs as I'd use them on TQ. Thing is ofcourse that it's impossible to actually get a kill in any FFA but at least you still get an idea of how stuff performs (you don't have to win to realise the potential of a setup/tactic).
Self-proclaimed idiot
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
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Posted - 2009.03.10 00:33:00 -
[177]
Edited by: NightmareX on 10/03/2009 00:33:12
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean
Originally by: NightmareX
exaggerated rant
/ignore exaggerating emo troll.
Want to get reported again?.
Answer me the question over here or STFU.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
sophisticatedlimabean
Gallente
Delinquent Habits
|
Posted - 2009.03.10 00:35:00 -
[178]
Originally by: Tzar'rim
Regardless of UnsophisticatedWhinaBean's overzealous way of trying to state that the ships he flies mostly suck I have to agree with the Sisi bit. Things are so completely out of whack because of the T2 rigs and silly implants that you simply can not translate it to normal pvp on TQ.
Mr Rtard'rim
I do not fly ships that suck i fly ships that work well in the gangs i fly within, that is why the fella above found no blaster ship losses as they suck in gang combat and solo BS pvp is for sissi warriors and does not really exist much at all on TQ.
Originally by: Tzar'rim
I don't log on sisi much because of that, IF I go there I test setups, implants and rigs as I'd use them on TQ. Thing is ofcourse that it's impossible to actually get a kill in any FFA but at least you still get an idea of how stuff performs (you don't have to win to realise the potential of a setup/change).
See now YOU use the test server for testing like i do, instead of playing with expensive like certain ppl.....
My views may reflect those of my corp/alliance, but if you wanna know for sure ask em for gods sake. |
Koloch
Amarr
Warriors Lost
|
Posted - 2009.03.10 00:35:00 -
[179]
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean
I could hardly claim they were poor and in need of help then use them as my ship of choice now could i?...anyway losses are of less importance than dmg done and effectiveness in gang relative to other ships of the same class..
Yes, I guess that could be true, but I would have expected you to atleast have some failed attempts at using blaster ships in general. I know quite a few players that have a lot of kills/losses using blaster ships. I would take their opinion on how the ships fair in tq combat over someone that doesn't use them at all.
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Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Blackguard Coalition
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Posted - 2009.03.10 00:37:00 -
[180]
Originally by: NightmareX
If you can prove me that Blasters are crap, while they work pretty good for me atm, then i will forgive you and say that i'm a sisi noob and that i really sucks.
You're a sisi noob that really sucks. Hi Nightmare :)
But if you're curious, my assumption is that most people in this game suck at it. You can make virtually anything work for you if you're *good* at PVP. There are dangerous ships, and then there are people that make anything dangerous.
Being in the second category does not mean that everything you touch is perfectly balanced. :)
-Liang
--
Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
www.kwikdeath.org |
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sophisticatedlimabean
Gallente
Delinquent Habits
|
Posted - 2009.03.10 00:39:00 -
[181]
Originally by: NightmareX
Edited by: NightmareX on 10/03/2009 00:33:12
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean
Originally by: NightmareX
exaggerated rant
/ignore exaggerating emo troll.
Want to get reported again?.
Answer me the question over here or STFU.
Report all you like pal, the last i checked i do not have 658084854068409 alts and have no interest in discussing this topic with somebody who does not have the ability to understand it and resorts to such exaggerated and emo comments when he cannot counter my points.
My views may reflect those of my corp/alliance, but if you wanna know for sure ask em for gods sake. |
sophisticatedlimabean
Gallente
Delinquent Habits
|
Posted - 2009.03.10 00:44:00 -
[182]
Edited by: sophisticatedlimabean on 10/03/2009 00:54:23
Originally by: Koloch
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean
I could hardly claim they were poor and in need of help then use them as my ship of choice now could i?...anyway losses are of less importance than dmg done and effectiveness in gang relative to other ships of the same class..
Yes, I guess that could be true, but I would have expected you to atleast have some failed attempts at using blaster ships in general. I know quite a few players that have a lot of kills/losses using blaster ships. I would take their opinion on how the ships fair in tq combat over someone that doesn't use them at all.
I have used them in the past and tested/tried them post nerf, and i know i have lost some so if you wanna look back im sure you will find some.
Remember losing a ship is not how you define if it is useless or not, all that defines is if you got unlucky or called primary.......the test of a ship is how it performs in combat and how effective it is within your gangs peramiters/abilities, and as such using it a few times will show how relatively effective it is, losing it or not is mostly unimportant in regards to that as you could have had a blob drop on you or even just simply screwed up (good ships die when you do that as well as poor ones).
My views may reflect those of my corp/alliance, but if you wanna know for sure ask em for gods sake. |
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.03.10 00:46:00 -
[183]
Edited by: NightmareX on 10/03/2009 00:55:59
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: NightmareX
If you can prove me that Blasters are crap, while they work pretty good for me atm, then i will forgive you and say that i'm a sisi noob and that i really sucks.
You're a sisi noob that really sucks. Hi Nightmare :)
But if you're curious, my assumption is that most people in this game suck at it. You can make virtually anything work for you if you're *good* at PVP. There are dangerous ships, and then there are people that make anything dangerous.
Being in the second category does not mean that everything you touch is perfectly balanced. :)
-Liang
Now that's a face i haven't seen in ages lol.
Well yeah. your right about the PVP things. I have used ages to find out how every BS'es in EVE works, and then used all kind of setups on them. And i have been using years of years to find out how every battleships works.
Or the only BS'es (Marauders) i can't use yet is Golem and Paladin.
I have tested every of the Amarr BS'es including the Navy Apoc on sisi to. So i know how they are. I found them good on what i used them for, but i found out in the end that Amarr BS'es was the wrong race for me to train for. Or to specialize in. Because it was not good for my play style.
So i trained Minmatar and Gallente. I started to train Caldari in my noob days though.
And now today, i'm VERY VERY skilled in using every Minmatar and Gallente ships from frigs up to Marauders. And even when i don't have a huge amount of kills (around 600 in total), i still know how to use pretty much every BS'es in EVE 100% right.
As EVE is today, you have to use your brain, and i'm good at using my brain. Doing e-peen on how many kills you have in EVE and then say omg hahahah nooooob, i have more kills than you so i must be better than you is a joke tbh. It doesn't prove at all how good you are.
I know some players who have over 6k kills in just 1 year. Because he sit in a carrier or a battleship with smartbombs and kill frigs and shuttles all day long.
Can he say hah, i have over 6k kills in 1 year, i must be better than you in PVP?. Nah he can't.
EDIT: sophisticatedlimabean, answer my question or STFU. Or are you proving that you don't know ****?.
If you really mean that Blasters are crap, then for god sake explain to me why they are crap, and please give a very detailed reason why they sucks to. Not just go and whine like a ******ed noobcake.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Aylara
|
Posted - 2009.03.10 00:57:00 -
[184]
Yes, stay away from the Diemost, stick with the Vaga, is one of the best ships in EVE. If you really want to try blasters, don't fly anything under BS, or you'll be toasted most of the time, unless you're in an big bl... i mean fleet.
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vostok
Minmatar
Shadow of xXDEATHXx
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Posted - 2009.03.10 01:42:00 -
[185]
Edited by: vostok on 10/03/2009 01:43:08
I tire of your fail....
Originally by: NightmareX
And now today, i'm VERY VERY skilled in using every Minmatar and Gallente ships from frigs up to Marauders. And even when i don't have a huge amount of kills (around 600 in total), i still know how to use pretty much every BS'es in EVE 100% right.
Now, the way gang combat works, the chances are in any medium sized engagements that you will have to switch between targets and these may likely be at different ranges. Every other class of BS can either fight easily at all these ranges or can adjust quickly to. Now that used to be fine because the megathron did significantly more damage than any other battleship once it got in range, but the res nerf along with the torp buff have left blaster dps surprisingly similar to its longer range counterparts with none of the benefits. That coupled with the web nerf makes ships harder to keep in the right range not to mention unless both are stationary you will lose a lot of dps to tracking.
Also, if you know how to fly every BS perfectly, do you know when not to fly them? I want to see battleships back in gang combat personally, but at the moment they just don't cut it unless you're spider tanking.
Originally by: NightmareX
As EVE is today, you have to use your brain, and i'm good at using my brain. Doing e-peen on how many kills you have in EVE and then say omg hahahah nooooob, i have more kills than you so i must be better than you is a joke tbh. It doesn't prove at all how good you are.
I know some players who have over 6k kills in just 1 year. Because he sit in a carrier or a battleship with smartbombs and kill frigs and shuttles all day long.
Can he say hah, i have over 6k kills in 1 year, i must be better than you in PVP because i have 2500 more kills than you?. Nah he can't.
And yet I would trust the words of somebody who has 6000 kills in a *real* pvp ship (mostly gang ships or perhaps a logistics style carrier) any day over somebody who ****s about on sisi thinking its a good place to test.
Combat does not happen like it does on sisi, exceptions maybe being people testing formations for alliance tournies, but then that's nothing like TQ pvp either. So stop swanning around here like you're so righteous when you seem to know very little on the subjects.
Originally by: NightmareX
EDIT: sophisticatedlimabean, answer my question or STFU. Or are you proving that you don't know ****?.
If you really mean that Blasters are crap, then for god sake explain to me why they are crap, and please give a very detailed reason why they sucks to. Not just go and whine like a ******ed noobcake.
All of the reasons have been answered in many many threads, hell I have answered some key points here. I'm not going to do the number crunches because I have done them many many times before and so have many other people.
Oh and lastly, I promise you, it's you who looks like the noobcake, so please just stop posting.
- Adaptation is not an excuse for lack of ballance! -
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
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Posted - 2009.03.10 19:30:00 -
[186]
I don't really care what you guys here say. Until you get me to believe that Blasters are crap, then i will not listen to any of the epic whines here. It's waste of energy to listen to fail players who use the weapons totally wrong.
When the Blasters works pretty good for me, like they have done for me the last 2-3 years, then i guess the weapons are good. Or are they still crap for me only because someone say they are crap?.
I wont listen to noobs or whatever when they then cry like an idiot because they fail to use the weapon right and to use the ships with the Blasters in the right situations.
So instead of whining here, then show me why Blasters sucks by giving me fraps, logs from a fight, pictures etc, you get it. Instead of whine without giving any evidence.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Megan Maynard
Minmatar
Out of Order
Tenth Legion
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Posted - 2009.03.10 19:41:00 -
[187]
I wonder if he's ever say....tried rails?
I wasn't a huge fan of arty's for a long time because of the fitting, once i got that figured out I loved the range.
Stop, hammer time. |
vostok
Minmatar
Shadow of xXDEATHXx
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Posted - 2009.03.11 06:02:00 -
[188]
Originally by: Megan Maynard
I wonder if he's ever say....tried rails?
I wasn't a huge fan of arty's for a long time because of the fitting, once i got that figured out I loved the range.
I do love the range, on my alt's 47km megapulse lasers, and unlike rails and arty, they can actually deal damage.
I also like the range on torps since its the perfect range for gang combat with javelins going out to 40km.
The fact is, while blasters do still deal marginally more damage than torps and pulse, but getting into the range and then manipulating the ship so you can track your target is just too much compared to ships that can function at 2 or 3 times the range and lay down most of the dps.
The raven especially with its 2 utility highslots and its lack of need of cap. The only way a megathron can match a raven is with slaves and a massive hp buffer, which not everybody wants to pay for on TQ for something that is likely to be ganked.
Here's some food for thought:
Raven:
2 heavy neut which can run for around 3 min
948 dps from torps at aprox. 28km range
93k EHP
96 DPS passive tank at max regen
and ofc a mwd
Throw in 5 whatever drones, probably ECM and you end up with something, imo more useful than a megathron.
It doesn't have the same EHP and it's not tackling but the invul's can be overloaded for more EHP and all of its damage is going to be applied where it's needed until the ship is dead since its weapons are capless and not fussy about range.
I honestly have a hard time seeing many situations where a megathron is preferable to this. After all, before drones, the raven does more raw dps, it'd be hard to say which can apply the most dps since that depends largely on the target, but still...
Its not about blasters being ok on test server, its about them being balanced in the real game, and as it stands I would say somebody using blasters starts with a disadvantage.
Also, the rokh is arguably a better blaster ship than the megathron or hyperion. Lets just say I've never seen a blaster boat eat through the EHP of a rokh before the rokh has eaten the gallente ship.
- Adaptation is not an excuse for lack of ballance! -
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marakor
Gallente
Anti Lag Forum Smackers
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Posted - 2009.03.11 10:59:00 -
[189]
Edited by: marakor on 11/03/2009 11:07:10
Originally by: vostok
Originally by: Megan Maynard
I wonder if he's ever say....tried rails?
I wasn't a huge fan of arty's for a long time because of the fitting, once i got that figured out I loved the range.
I do love the range, on my alt's 47km megapulse lasers, and unlike rails and arty, they can actually deal damage.
I also like the range on torps since its the perfect range for gang combat with javelins going out to 40km.
The fact is, while blasters do still deal marginally more damage than torps and pulse, but getting into the range and then manipulating the ship so you can track your target is just too much compared to ships that can function at 2 or 3 times the range and lay down most of the dps.
Yup 800ms takes you a while to get into range and a bucket tonne of time (if ever) when there is multiple targets around.
Blasters however should not be given more range, they should how ever do more dmg in the ranges they already do.
Oh and nightmare x you are wrong, using modules that are not regularly used on TQ and doing almost all of your pvp on sissi makes your ideas and results worthless on TQ, and your skills at TQ pvp lacking as there's lots of things on TQ that can and do happen that never happen in a controlled environment like sissi.
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Traderboz
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Posted - 2009.03.11 11:33:00 -
[190]
This thread entertains. Reminds me of NightmareX arguing with people about how badass the tempest is on SiSi in the old Minmatar/projectiles thread.
Keep it up guys.
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
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Posted - 2009.03.11 22:49:00 -
[191]
Edited by: NightmareX on 11/03/2009 22:55:21
Originally by: marakor
Oh and nightmare x you are wrong, using modules that are not regularly used on TQ and doing almost all of your pvp on sissi makes your ideas and results worthless on TQ, and your skills at TQ pvp lacking as there's lots of things on TQ that can and do happen that never happen in a controlled environment like sissi.
Where i'am wrong?. I'm wrong that Blasters works pretty good for me?.
Well they can't exactly be crap when they are fine for me.
Or did you mean that i use modules that isn't common on TQ?. Well, t2 rigs are used by some though. But i can to some point agree that implants like Slaves are more rare. Heck, i can even get a LG Slave set to 500 mill isk now. It's not that much.
So i have nothing to be afraid of. And as long they work for me, then why should i listen to the epic noob whines here?.
Oh fyi. I have tested out a Megathron many times on TQ to.
The thing when i test out a Megathron on sisi, then i will see how it will perform when targets are webbed, also how good i can hit them while they are webbed and not webbed etc. Then i can see how much damage i can take on them.
Tests like that will not be ANY different from what it is on TQ. Because the damage (except for damage implants) and tracking + the web is 100% the same on Sisi and TQ.
Originally by: Traderboz
This thread entertains. Reminds me of NightmareX arguing with people about how badass the tempest is on SiSi in the old Minmatar/projectiles thread.
Keep it up guys.
Don't forget that the Tempest is the main ship i use on TQ now. I have used it as main BS for over 3 years now and i have used it in all from 1 vs 1 to 10 vs 10 to 50 vs 50 and 400 vs 400 etc. So i have used the ship in every possible ways you can use it for on TQ.
I even use it to npc in to lol. It works pretty good with the setup i use on the Tempest.
But hey, Tempest still owns in small scale PVP.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
vostok
Minmatar
Shadow of xXDEATHXx
|
Posted - 2009.03.11 22:54:00 -
[192]
Originally by: NightmareX
Tests like that will not be ANY different from what it is on TQ. Because the damage (except for damage implants) and tracking + the web is 100% the same on Sisi and TQ.
Your denial amuses me. The fact is, it wont affect you, because you don't really play eve, you play sisi.
And the irony of calling the people who actually fight on TQ noobs...
/me walks off laughing to himself
- Adaptation is not an excuse for lack of ballance! -
|
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.03.11 22:57:00 -
[193]
Originally by: vostok
Originally by: NightmareX
Tests like that will not be ANY different from what it is on TQ. Because the damage (except for damage implants) and tracking + the web is 100% the same on Sisi and TQ.
Your denial amuses me. The fact is, it wont affect you, because you don't really play eve, you play sisi.
And the irony of calling the people who actually fight on TQ noobs...
/me walks off laughing to himself
Did you even read what i did say there?.
If you did, why did you reply with that?.
Is it because the damage (without implants), the tracking, web strenght is different on TQ than it is on TQ?.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Blackguard Coalition
|
Posted - 2009.03.11 23:02:00 -
[194]
Originally by: NightmareX
Did you even read what i did say there?.
If you did, why did you reply with that?.
Is it because the damage (without implants), the tracking, web strenght is different on TQ than it is on Sisi?.
It's because of the fact that even if the modules are the same on tq and sisi that *people* fly differently there. I know I fly *alot* differently on sisi than TQ.
-Liang
--
Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
www.kwikdeath.org |
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.03.11 23:05:00 -
[195]
Edited by: NightmareX on 11/03/2009 23:06:32
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: NightmareX
Did you even read what i did say there?.
If you did, why did you reply with that?.
Is it because the damage (without implants), the tracking, web strenght is different on TQ than it is on Sisi?.
It's because of the fact that even if the modules are the same on tq and sisi that *people* fly differently there. I know I fly *alot* differently on sisi than TQ.
-Liang
Yeah. But finding out how every BS'es and Marauders can hit the different types of ship classes is a good thing to know.
There is tons of other ways i'm testing out the ships in to.
Because if i do that and get a picture of how every BS'es is, then it's much much easier for me later when i'm gonna do PVP on TQ, because then i know exactly what kind of ship i better use after what kind of PVP we are gonna do.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Blackguard Coalition
|
Posted - 2009.03.11 23:10:00 -
[196]
Originally by: NightmareX
Yeah. But finding out how every BS'es and Marauders can hit the different types of ship classes is a good thing to know.
There is tons of other ways i'm testing out the ships in to.
Because if i do that and get a picture of how every BS'es is, then it's much much easier for me later when i'm gonna do PVP on TQ, because then i know exactly what kind of ship i better use after what kind of PVP we are gonna do.
What I'm saying doesn't contradict what you just said. What I'm saying contradicts that you're in a good position to tell everyone they're noobs and don't know how to play the game because *YOU* aren't affected by this problem on sisi.
Because *EVERYONE* flies differently on sisi, you won't and CAN'T have the full range of experiences that people face EVERY DAY on live.
-Liang
--
Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
www.kwikdeath.org |
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.03.11 23:15:00 -
[197]
Edited by: NightmareX on 11/03/2009 23:16:58
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: NightmareX
Yeah. But finding out how every BS'es and Marauders can hit the different types of ship classes is a good thing to know.
There is tons of other ways i'm testing out the ships in to.
Because if i do that and get a picture of how every BS'es is, then it's much much easier for me later when i'm gonna do PVP on TQ, because then i know exactly what kind of ship i better use after what kind of PVP we are gonna do.
What I'm saying doesn't contradict what you just said. What I'm saying contradicts that you're in a good position to tell everyone they're noobs and don't know how to play the game because *YOU* aren't affected by this problem on sisi.
Because *EVERYONE* flies differently on sisi, you won't and CAN'T have the full range of experiences that people face EVERY DAY on live.
-Liang
That's true.
But i'll guess i'm lucky. Because all of the testing i have been doing on sisi have helped me alot on TQ when it's about PVP and that. Also when it's about what kind of ship and setups i should use when i know what we are going to do etc.
And the Tempest for example. It performs 100% the same (with the implants and rigs i currently have) on TQ as it does on Sisi with the same implants and rigs as i have on TQ for me, no matter what i do with the ship.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Blackguard Coalition
|
Posted - 2009.03.11 23:22:00 -
[198]
Originally by: NightmareX
I'll agree to that in some points.
But i'll guess i'm lucky. Because all of the testing i have been doing on sisi have helped me alot on TQ when it's about PVP and that. Also when it's about what kind of ship and setup i should use when i know what we are going to do etc.
That's why i do all of those tests on Sisi, to set a picture of what kind of ship and setup i should use after what kind of PVP we are going to do. And after what kind of ship types we are going up against.
And the Tempest for example. It performs 100% the same (with the implants and rigs i currently have) on TQ as it does on Sisi with the same implants and rigs as i have on TQ for me, no matter what i do with the ship.
No one's saying it isn't helpful - they're saying it isn't authoritative. If you want to say something's fine... use experience FROM TQ and they will listen. Using experience FROM SISI marks you as 'noob' - rightly or wrongly.
-Liang
--
Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
www.kwikdeath.org |
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.03.11 23:57:00 -
[199]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: NightmareX
I'll agree to that in some points.
But i'll guess i'm lucky. Because all of the testing i have been doing on sisi have helped me alot on TQ when it's about PVP and that. Also when it's about what kind of ship and setup i should use when i know what we are going to do etc.
That's why i do all of those tests on Sisi, to set a picture of what kind of ship and setup i should use after what kind of PVP we are going to do. And after what kind of ship types we are going up against.
And the Tempest for example. It performs 100% the same (with the implants and rigs i currently have) on TQ as it does on Sisi with the same implants and rigs as i have on TQ for me, no matter what i do with the ship.
No one's saying it isn't helpful - they're saying it isn't authoritative. If you want to say something's fine... use experience FROM TQ and they will listen. Using experience FROM SISI marks you as 'noob' - rightly or wrongly.
-Liang
If you want to get combat experience, you should get the experience from TQ ofc.
But for finding out how every BS'es works, then Sisi is a good place to find that out.
I'm not saying Sisi is better than TQ to find that out. I'm just saying that Sisi is a good way to find out about that.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Blackguard Coalition
|
Posted - 2009.03.12 00:05:00 -
[200]
Originally by: NightmareX
If you want to get combat experience, you should get the experience from TQ ofc.
But for finding out how every BS'es works, then Sisi is a good place to find that out.
I'm not saying Sisi is better than TQ to find that out. I'm just saying that Sisi is a good way to find out about that.
I know what you're saying... but there's alot of people that are saying that what you see *on sisi* doesn't line up with what they see *on tq*. And TQ *DOES* take precedence. So if you want to refute them... use TQ to do so.
-Liang
--
Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
www.kwikdeath.org |
|
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vostok
Minmatar
Shadow of xXDEATHXx
|
Posted - 2009.03.12 00:56:00 -
[201]
Originally by: NightmareX
Did you even read what i did say there?.
If you did, why did you reply with that?.
Is it because the damage (without implants), the tracking, web strenght is different on TQ than it is on Sisi?.
I don't care if i play some more mins more on Sisi than i do on TQ atm. When i test out ships and everything on sisi, then i take one ship like a Megathron and then tests out how good i can hit a cruiser orbiting me at 5 km webbed for example. And then i take another BS like Tempest and do the same to see how good i can hit him with the Tempest.
And things like that is something i like to find out about. I'm not the person who just go on sisi to PVP in FFA and think i can do PVP by doing that.
That's why i said earlier that i know how every BS'es and Marauders (except for Golem and Paladin) works 100%. Because i test them out in every possible ways.
Yes I read what you said but your blatant denial of what really happens in TQ is brilliant.
So on test server when was the last time you set a gate camp with bubbles to try and catch people coming through, did you find that your megathron was out of range for half of the targets? Did you find your dps terrible because you had to leave your drones behind earlier or did you try to wait for your drones to return and get killed because of it?
The fact is, all of the situations you create on sisi will be nothing like what they will be like on TQ, hell people don't even use smartbombs on sisi for fear of podding people.
Testing on sisi is like the people who thought they could model epidemics on the plague that was spread in wow, and they failed because in real life people don't purposefully contract it and then run to crowded areas with the sole intention of spreading the plague because they're not really going to die.
And cruisers orbiting at 5km... WTF, the only time that's going to happen is when you meet a pilgrim and then you will have TD on and then you really wont be hitting anything at all. And did you bother comparing that to a raven using javelin torps when the cruiser has no cap...
IMO to make sisi testing worthwhile and useful you need a fairly good idea of what you're going to be doing with it on TQ and what you are likely to meet in a pvp situation. You obviously have neither.
Fact of the matter is, you have wasted too much of your time for you to be able to admit it was all worthless. People have shown you countless examples and all you come back with is your trollish comments about how it wont affect you and you think blasters are ok. You might as well walk around Poland telling the locals you think ****** was right. Do you even know why I think blasters are broken?!
TBH, I find you pretty pathetic.
- Adaptation is not an excuse for lack of ballance! -
|
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.03.12 01:09:00 -
[202]
Edited by: NightmareX on 12/03/2009 01:17:43
Originally by: vostok
Yes I read what you said but your blatant denial of what really happens in TQ is brilliant.
So on test server when was the last time you set a gate camp with bubbles to try and catch people coming through, did you find that your megathron was out of range for half of the targets? Did you find your dps terrible because you had to leave your drones behind earlier or did you try to wait for your drones to return and get killed because of it?
The fact is, all of the situations you create on sisi will be nothing like what they will be like on TQ, hell people don't even use smartbombs on sisi for fear of podding people.
Testing on sisi is like the people who thought they could model epidemics on the plague that was spread in wow, and they failed because in real life people don't purposefully contract it and then run to crowded areas with the sole intention of spreading the plague because they're not really going to die.
And cruisers orbiting at 5km... WTF, the only time that's going to happen is when you meet a pilgrim and then you will have TD on and then you really wont be hitting anything at all. And did you bother comparing that to a raven using javelin torps when the cruiser has no cap...
IMO to make sisi testing worthwhile and useful you need a fairly good idea of what you're going to be doing with it on TQ and what you are likely to meet in a pvp situation. You obviously have neither.
Fact of the matter is, you have wasted too much of your time for you to be able to admit it was all worthless. People have shown you countless examples and all you come back with is your trollish comments about how it wont affect you and you think blasters are ok. You might as well walk around Poland telling the locals you think ****** was right. Do you even know why I think blasters are broken?!
TBH, I find you pretty pathetic.
Doing PVP to get experience is one thing. I agree that getting experience from PVP you need to do it on TQ.
But, this isn't about PVP experience. It's about testing a battleship in different tasks and then get some results. And then take another battleship and do the same and then get results.
Then i compare those 2 results, to see what Battleship that actually does most damage for example to a Hurricane for example.
And then does another test with the same 2 battleships as i used on earlier test to see who have the best hit quality on a cruiser orbiting you at 2.5 km while webbed.
Those are just some few examples on what im doing on Sisi.
And so on on many many more tests. Those tests are NOT to get any pvp experience, it's about finding out how the different ships are, how they work and how they can perform in different tasks.
Warping into FFA 1 and then just shoot all you see doesn't have anything to do with those tests i do sometimes on Sisi.
I hope you understand now what i'm talking about.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Blackguard Coalition
|
Posted - 2009.03.12 01:15:00 -
[203]
Originally by: NightmareX
Doing PVP to get experience is one thing. I agree that getting experience from PVP you need to do it on TQ.
But, this isn't about PVP experience. It's about testing a battleship in different tasks and then get some results. And then take another battleship and do the same and then get results.
Then i compare those 2 results, to see what Battleship that actually does most damage for example to a Hurricane for example.
And then does another test with the same 2 battleships as i used on earlier test to see who have the best hit quality on a cruiser orbiting you at 2.5 km while webbed.
Those are just some few examples on what im doing on Sisi.
And so on on many many more tests. Those tests are NOT to get any pvp experience, it's about finding out how the different ships are, how they work and how they can perform in different tasks.
Warping into FFA 1 and then just shoot all you see doesn't have anything to do with those tests i do sometimes on Sisi.
I hope you understand now what i'm talking about.
We know what you're talking about - but we're saying that the experience and tests you do on Sisi don't actually have anything to do with "reality" on TQ. You admit that they're not for "combat experience" - but I'd argue they're better for gaining combat experience and confidence than learning the finer points of how to use a ship (and arguing whether said ship/weapons system is balanced).
-Liang
--
Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
www.kwikdeath.org |
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.03.12 01:25:00 -
[204]
Edited by: NightmareX on 12/03/2009 01:26:16
Originally by: Liang Nuren
We know what you're talking about - but we're saying that the experience and tests you do on Sisi don't actually have anything to do with "reality" on TQ. You admit that they're not for "combat experience" - but I'd argue they're better for gaining combat experience and confidence than learning the finer points of how to use a ship (and arguing whether said ship/weapons system is balanced).
-Liang
It will still be easier to choose out a ship if you know what kind of fight your going up to when you know some of those stats from those tests.
It only makes the decision easier to choose the right things to a fight. It does that for me.
Ofc, we cannot say 100% that those tests will be like it is on TQ, but it still gives me an idea or a picture of what to use.
It works for me though. I have never (after i started to test all kinds of ships on Sisi) choosed the wrong ship to a fight.
Ofc i have to choose after what skills i have.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
prodalt
|
Posted - 2009.03.12 01:29:00 -
[205]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
I know what you're saying... but there's alot of people that are saying that what you see *on sisi* doesn't line up with what they see *on tq*. And TQ *DOES* take precedence. So if you want to refute them... use TQ to do so.
-Liang
They're both anecdotal and spurious accounts
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vostok
Minmatar
Shadow of xXDEATHXx
|
Posted - 2009.03.12 01:52:00 -
[206]
Originally by: NightmareX
Doing PVP to get experience is one thing. I agree that getting experience from PVP you need to do it on TQ.
But, this isn't about PVP experience. It's about testing a battleship in different tasks and then get some results. And then take another battleship and do the same and then get results.
Then i compare those 2 results, to see what Battleship that actually does most damage for example to a Hurricane for example.
And then does another test with the same 2 battleships as i used on earlier test to see who have the best hit quality on a cruiser orbiting you at 2.5 km while webbed.
Those are just some few examples on what im doing on Sisi.
And so on on many many more tests. Those tests are NOT to get any pvp experience, it's about finding out how the different ships are, how they work and how they can perform in different tasks.
Warping into FFA 1 and then just shoot all you see doesn't have anything to do with those tests i do sometimes on Sisi.
I hope you understand now what i'm talking about.
Ok, that's a fairly different tone.
But it's not specifically the damage of blasters that bothers me, once you are in blaster range they do fairly good dps... but the extra dps they deal compared to say megapulse and torps just isn't worth getting into range for.
You will definitely be running a booster reliant mwd to be able to move a BS for blasters, and you have to run that mwd when other ships can just concentrate on dps from a distance, oh and the whole fact that there's no real (defenders really are useless) way to scramble missiles like there is TD for turrets.
Also, I just noticed, Null ammo, compared to T1 antimatter increases the optimal +falloff by 58% on a megathron with neutron blasters and deals about 92% of the raw damage of antimatter.
Scorch deals 92% of the damage of T1 multifrequncy and on an armageddon with megapulse, increases the optimal +falloff by around 120%.
They have the same negative modifier to tracking the main difference is that scorch only increases the optimal range, which is somewhat more useful than falloff in most situations.
Way to balance CCP! 
- Adaptation is not an excuse for lack of ballance! -
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marakor
Gallente
Anti Lag Forum Smackers
|
Posted - 2009.03.12 08:50:00 -
[207]
Originally by: NightmareX
It will still be easier to choose out a ship if you know what kind of fight your going up to when you know some of those stats from those tests.
It only makes the decision easier to choose the right things to a fight. It does that for me.
Ofc, we cannot say 100% that those tests will be like it is on TQ, but it still gives me an idea or a picture of what to use.
It works for me though. I have never (after i started to test all kinds of ships on Sisi) choosed the wrong ship to a fight on TQ.
Here is your problem in a nutshell.
On sissi you can type in local things like "1 v 1 BS fight" or other scenarios that you wanna play and you can be sitting in whatever ship you feel like to do that in.
On TQ you maybe on a roam or even camping a gate where the individual stats of your ship and its capabilities in a 1 v 1 situation and irrelevant.
You maybe in a gang fight where the ppl you are fighting have support coming, when you play on sissi do you login alts and have them scouting neighboring systems for in coming hostile support?.
You fight in your perfect optimal and structure your combat to beat the other side but because you are on sissi you do not need to run a second scout account and watch for incoming blobs or stay aligned until the second they appear so you can warp off and reposition.
These are just a FEW of the things a TQ pvper must deal with to be successful.
In short after reading your posts about how you think combat is and how you fit yopur ships i think that you are far from the experienced and knowledgeable pvper you think you are, you are little more than a mathematician who has figured out that in a controlled area X beats Y and are hiding on sissi cos you do not find TQ easy enough for you as there are no rules or regulations that limit what you may need to face and deal with on the main server.
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.03.12 09:27:00 -
[208]
Originally by: marakor
Originally by: NightmareX
It will still be easier to choose out a ship if you know what kind of fight your going up to when you know some of those stats from those tests.
It only makes the decision easier to choose the right things to a fight. It does that for me.
Ofc, we cannot say 100% that those tests will be like it is on TQ, but it still gives me an idea or a picture of what to use.
It works for me though. I have never (after i started to test all kinds of ships on Sisi) choosed the wrong ship to a fight on TQ.
Here is your problem in a nutshell.
On sissi you can type in local things like "1 v 1 BS fight" or other scenarios that you wanna play and you can be sitting in whatever ship you feel like to do that in.
On TQ you maybe on a roam or even camping a gate where the individual stats of your ship and its capabilities in a 1 v 1 situation and irrelevant.
You maybe in a gang fight where the ppl you are fighting have support coming, when you play on sissi do you login alts and have them scouting neighboring systems for in coming hostile support?.
You fight in your perfect optimal and structure your combat to beat the other side but because you are on sissi you do not need to run a second scout account and watch for incoming blobs or stay aligned until the second they appear so you can warp off and reposition.
These are just a FEW of the things a TQ pvper must deal with to be successful.
In short after reading your posts about how you think combat is and how you fit yopur ships i think that you are far from the experienced and knowledgeable pvper you think you are, you are little more than a mathematician who has figured out that in a controlled area X beats Y and are hiding on sissi cos you do not find TQ easy enough for you as there are no rules or regulations that limit what you may need to face and deal with on the main server.
Do you want more cheese with your whine?.
I have given the exact explanation on what i'm doing on sisi And it have nothing to do with PVP experience.
It have with finding out about the ships it self.
Finding out about the ships and having PVP experience is 2 totally different things.
The stats of how your ships is might not be usefull for you, but for me, it's very usefull, simply because it works.
If the stats and results i get from sisi help me with alot of things on TQ, then what's the problem?.
It's not about what you think Sisi does to you, it's about what it does to me.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
MenanceWhite
Amarr
SniggWaffe
|
Posted - 2009.03.12 09:44:00 -
[209]
Just how much is all the baawwwing and internet fight on the last 1-2 pages relevant with blasters?
Gallente cruisers are still good solo, however their blaster BS does'nt have much practical application on "regular" combat situations where they're more effective than other BS in dealing damage. (maybe station camping?)
I think that minnie/gallente crosstrain is pretty ok since one part covers what the other is bad at.
---
Originally by: Torfi
There's alot. That can be done. With.. corpses
Originally by: Oveur
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Cohkka
Celestial Apocalypse
|
Posted - 2009.03.12 09:47:00 -
[210]
How did this thread turn from "Blasters don't cut it" to "no, no you're all wrong I'm the only one right, Sisi IS the place where pros test their shipz, rly!" Why don't you have a nice coup of STFU Nightmare? Every thread that remotely touches the topic of Blasters/ACs got you in arguing about the same topic over and over again... completly missing the topic and the known facts. You don't care about even testing standards, your points won't be considered, end of story.
Don't speak english, just F5, F5, F5... |
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Triksterism
Gallente
z3r0 Gravity
Fluidic Anti-Gravity
|
Posted - 2009.03.12 09:57:00 -
[211]
As long as you don't fly Caldari, you are doing good.
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Mag's
the united
Negative Ten.
|
Posted - 2009.03.12 09:59:00 -
[212]
NightmareX stop already, good god man, you're not doing yourself any favours here.
All I mostly use are blasters, and they need a buff. Better tracking and more damage, to bring them back to their close, heavy damage, role.
The slight extra damage they have over pulse atm, does not cut the mustard.
I am training up Amarr, been awhile since I've flown Amarr, but I see no other route to take.
CCP will most likely dance around this problem for a couple of years. Let's face it, it's what we come to expect.
Regards
Mag's |
El Dracula
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Posted - 2009.03.12 10:03:00 -
[213]
Edited by: El Dracula on 12/03/2009 10:03:35
Whilst I don't want to get dragged down into this epic flamefest, I will throw in my thoughts.
On one character I fly, almost exclusively, Megathrons.
On the other character I fly, almost exclusively, Armageddons.
Both of these are used in 10-15 man RR BS gangs, and what I have found is they are both great ships, with their strengths and their weaknesses. In my Mega, I find that 75% of the time, range is not an issue, and when it is, I still manage to deal acceptable DPS with Null. Of course, in this scenario I rarely, if ever, achieve top 3 on the killmail, which seems, 15km range plus, to be the sole territory of the Amarr ships. However, 15km and below, the DPS from blasters can rarely be contested.
The Armageddon comes into its own during longer conflicts, however, when there has been sufficient time for the two forces to diverge, and the fighting becomes less intense and more spacious. It's also epic lol when popping inties at 50km.
Like I said. 2 Battleships, and I'm equally happy in both.
PS. Using killmails as evidence is ******ed since they are entirely situational, and 99% of the time, prove absolutely nothing.
PPS. I agree with SLB's statement that SiSi fighting cannot reasonably be used as evidence for the effectiveness of combat ships in TQ, although I agree with Nightmare's thoughts that the Megathron is not total balls.
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Ig Neus
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Posted - 2009.03.12 10:31:00 -
[214]
Comparing Blasters to Lasers is one thing. Comparing Gallente Battleships to Amarr ones is a completely different thing.
One of the main reasons that the extra DPS of Blasters does not seem worth it is that you guys usually compare the DPS of a Megathron with the DPS of an Abaddon. While this is normal (since they are the best/most used Blaster and Laser boats) they are not really in the same league.
Abaddon has one more turret and is a Tier 3 Battleship, so normally we should be comparing it with a Hyperion. So if we stick to the Turret DPS, Megapulse Abaddon gets 929 (with 3 Heat Sinks, Conflagration and everything at V) while Neutron Hyperion gets 1084 (with 3 MagStabs, Null and everything at V). Hyperion also has 25m3 more of a Drone Bay, meaning it can total damage (with optimal Drone setups) is 1338 vs 1139.
Also, it should be noted that, while Lasers can hit much further, their damage types are worst for the vast majority of cases, in which EM is the Highest Resistance (just check the resistances on most gank setups out there).
However, there are two big problems here :
A) Generally Buffer Tank > Active. But let's suppose that Hyperion could be Gallente version of Maelstrom. That brings us to B.
B) Hyperion, "The Blaster platform" according to its description, sucks. Its Powergrid is too low to be able to fit Neutrons + 2*LAR + MWD + Cap Booster (that would make it a Gallente version of the Maelstrom with more damage but less tank). In fact it is about 5k less than that. Also its low slots are not enough to fit 3 MagStabs, 2*LAR and 2*Resistance thingies.
In fact, in order to make this ship viable, it would need a large boost in Powergrid and 7 lows. In fact, I would accept being forced to fit a Reactor II in order to fit Neutrons, if it had 8 lows, 3 meds, 8 highs.
tl;dr version :
In my opinion, Blasters suffer mainly from the lack of a Blaster specialized boat comparable to the Abaddon.
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El Dracula
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Posted - 2009.03.12 10:48:00 -
[215]
Edited by: El Dracula on 12/03/2009 10:49:32
I barely ever use the Abaddon because if you read my post, it is for use in RR BS gangs. Therefore, if I were to use an Abaddon, I would have to drop a gun for a rep, and with only a 75m3 drone bay and 7 guns, its DPS would be subpar in comparison with the Armageddon.
Granted the Abaddon has epic EHP, but EHP has a useful limit tbh, after which it's just showing off 
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Ig Neus
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Posted - 2009.03.12 11:03:00 -
[216]
Originally by: El Dracula
Edited by: El Dracula on 12/03/2009 10:49:32
I barely ever use the Abaddon because if you read my post, it is for use in RR BS gangs. Therefore, if I were to use an Abaddon, I would have to drop a gun for a rep, and with only a 75m3 drone bay and 7 guns, its DPS would be subpar in comparison with the Armageddon.
Granted the Abaddon has epic EHP, but EHP has a useful limit tbh, after which it's just showing off
Ah well, we use alts with Remote Repping Dominix/Geddons or Logistics so this is not an issue. Anyway, comparing an Abaddon with a Megathron, I generally prefer the Megathron for close range fights. When camping a Station full of War Targets range does not really matter, while damage and tracking does.
The Amarr Battleship I really find stronger than any other BS in Eve is Abaddon.
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
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Posted - 2009.03.12 11:17:00 -
[217]
Edited by: NightmareX on 12/03/2009 11:18:18
Originally by: Cohkka
How did this thread turn from "Blasters don't cut it" to "no, no you're all wrong I'm the only one right, Sisi IS the place where pros test their shipz, rly!" Why don't you have a nice coup of STFU Nightmare? Every thread that remotely touches the topic of Blasters/ACs got you in arguing about the same topic over and over again... completly missing the topic and the known facts. You don't care about even testing standards, your points won't be considered, end of story.
Whine whine whine whine whine whine whine.
I have given the reasons why i know my stuffs about the ships and weapons.
Your still dumb and think that what i'm doing mainly on sisi does have with PVP experience on TQ to do.
But you don't get it. But i tests out every of the Battleships / weapon systems in every possible ways and then get resuslts and stats about how good they are at different tasks.
Doing those tasks have NOTHING to do with PVP experience on TQ to do, at all, it have with finding out everything about how a battleship is working with the different weapon systems.
And by doing those tests, i know how every large weapon systems and battleships works ingame. Yes i know 100% how they work, but how they work have nothing to do with PVP experience to do. Get it now?.
Originally by: Mag's
NightmareX stop already, good god man, you're not doing yourself any favours here.
All I mostly use are blasters, and they need a buff. Better tracking and more damage, to bring them back to their close, heavy damage, role.
The slight extra damage they have over pulse atm, does not cut the mustard.
I am training up Amarr, been awhile since I've flown Amarr, but I see no other route to take.
CCP will most likely dance around this problem for a couple of years. Let's face it, it's what we come to expect.
Yes sir, boosting Blaster damage and Tracking is so gonna make other things in combat balanced, yeah, you sound very smart about that dude.
Boosting Blaster damage and tracking is going to make Autocannons to a piece of junk. Ktnxbai.
But fine, boost Blaster damage and tracking or whatever, but then do it to the Autocannons to. Before that happen, i'm not gonna support ANY Boosts to Blasters, EVER.
Yeah, please go on the FOTM wagon. I hope you will have fun there. No i will never train anything that have with FOTM to do. Only noobs bite on the FOTM thing.
Remember, i have been playing this game for a little over 5 years, and by that, i'm good enough with both Minmatar and Gallente BS'es. I don't need to train anything other.
And i like Minmatar and Gallente BS'es much much better than Amarr and Caldari BS'es anyways.
And Amarr and Caldari doesn't fit into my play style.
Oh and El Dracula. That's also what i'm trying to tell the others, but they wont listen.
I might not be that experienced in doing PVP, yes i admit it. I'm not the person who like to boost my e-peen by showing how awesome you are by showing how many killmails you have. But hell, i for sure know how every damn BS and Marauders (except for Golem and Paladin) and large weapon systems works ingame. And that's why i'm telling that Blasters is totally fine, as long you know what your doing and as long your using them right.
But every of the whiners in here don't see that.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Jin Entres
Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams
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Posted - 2009.03.12 11:18:00 -
[218]
I agree about the Hyperion, in general. The repper bonus is inferior to the resist bonus and forces the ship to active tank. Running guns, MWD and reppers however demands so much cap that most of the time you want to fit 2 injectors, totally giving up the 5th mid as a benefit, and with limited cargo the length you can sustain the tank is not that great. Hype can be decent with a sort of hybrid setup that uses 1 repper and otherwise passive where 1 injector suffices. In the current metagame, however, active tanks (even only partial) don't fare that well. The best of them are the shield tanks that can simply put out more boost/second; armor has always been the less oomphy but more cap efficient. The bonuses (or bonii) of slaves and crystals amplifies that fact. A Hyperion can never achieve the same tank as a Maelstrom.
Changing the repper bonus to a resist one would go a long way to making it viable. It would still be 1 low short of the abbie (with 1 extra mid) but that would be more acceptable (and not every ship has to be similar). Hell fit a TD there and it'll do just dandy against other BS, just as long as it doesn't have to active tank.
As for blasters in general, it would seem that post web nerf the most salient issue is their inability to track at their intended (optimal) range. Given that their range beyond that is not all too good, it would perhaps be reasonable to improve tracking by some 30% or so. Null ammo range could be decreased in exchange for slightly more damage (to blasters, not null) to emphasize the blaster ships' role as a close range damage dealing boat, offering them more competitiveness within their optimal conditions but less flexibility outside it (right now Null steps on the toes of autocannons pretty bad for instance, outdamaging them IIRC to around 17km on battleships).
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Tzar'rim
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Posted - 2009.03.12 11:20:00 -
[219]
I don't get this; for some reason All that gallente want to fit are neutrons, and if this is not possible due to fitting (or more importantly due to lack of tracking) then it somehow 'sucks'. Kinda like going "Thorax with medium electrons suck, they must be ions or neutrons" which is total BS as THE best setup is in fact with electrons.
Most races have trouble fitting the biggest guns without compromising the setup, I really don't understand this "neutrons or go home" idiocy.
Self-proclaimed idiot
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Tzar'rim
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Posted - 2009.03.12 11:26:00 -
[220]
Originally by: Jin Entres
I agree about the Hyperion, in general. The repper bonus is inferior to the resist bonus and forces the ship to active tank. Running guns, MWD and reppers however demands so much cap that most of the time you want to fit 2 injectors, totally giving up the 5th mid as a benefit, and with limited cargo the length you can sustain the tank is not that great. Hype can be decent with a sort of hybrid setup that uses 1 repper and otherwise passive where 1 injector suffices. In the current metagame, however, active tanks (even only partial) don't fare that well. The best of them are the shield tanks that can simply put out more boost/second; armor has always been the less oomphy but more cap efficient. The bonuses (or bonii) of slaves and crystals amplifies that fact. A Hyperion can never achieve the same tank as a Maelstrom.
Changing the repper bonus to a resist one would go a long way to making it viable. It would still be 1 low short of the abbie (with 1 extra mid) but that would be more acceptable (and not every ship has to be similar). Hell fit a TD there and it'll do just dandy against other BS, just as long as it doesn't have to active tank.
As for blasters in general, it would seem that post web nerf the most salient issue is their inability to track at their intended (optimal) range. Given that their range beyond that is not all too good, it would perhaps be reasonable to improve tracking by some 30% or so. Null ammo range could be decreased in exchange for slightly more damage (to blasters, not null) to emphasize the blaster ships' role as a close range damage dealing boat, offering them more competitiveness within their optimal conditions but less flexibility outside it (right now Null steps on the toes of autocannons pretty bad for instance, outdamaging them IIRC to around 17km on battleships).
Actually, I disagree. Not on your facts but on your suggestion. I'd like to stop this EHP/passive idiocy as it removes most pros/cons from races and it makes for boring "lets duke it out" combat. You want to bring back Amarr 'in line'? make them have to actually tank and all of a sudden they run into fitting problems, cap problems and everything putting them back in place. It would also make the lack of tank on minmatar ships less of a problem as it can choose to run it's reppers without bothering about cap".
So; the solution to most of the imbalance issues is to STOP this passive/EHP approach as it removes the diferences between races/ships. JUST like nanoing did; ships that nanoed were good, ships that didn't weren't. It's too much of a deciding factor. Massively lower the EHP/passive tankign abilities and force peopel to have to tank actively again, THAT is the solution.
Self-proclaimed idiot
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Jin Entres
Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams
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Posted - 2009.03.12 11:34:00 -
[221]
Originally by: Tzar'rim
I don't get this; for some reason All that gallente want to fit are neutrons, and if this is not possible due to fitting (or more importantly due to lack of tracking) then it somehow 'sucks'. Kinda like going "Thorax with medium electrons suck, they must be ions or neutrons" which is total BS as THE best setup is in fact with electrons.
Most races have trouble fitting the biggest guns without compromising the setup, I really don't understand this "neutrons or go home" idiocy.
Does the Tempest have problems fitting 800mm? No. Does the Maelstrom? No. Does the Abaddon have problems fitting Mega Pulses? No. Does the Geddon? Not really. Do you see where I'm going?
Passive buffer tanks in general have no problem fitting the biggest guns. On the Hyperion it is the unviability of passive tanking (and hence -4000 PG reppers) that force smaller guns where its competitors don't face the same need for compromise.
Oh and of course the aforementioned ships will also run into trouble if they try to fit a repper or two. In the geddon's case, you might have to downgrade 2 guns to fit a heavy neut with otherwise passive. Admittedly if you want it all, incl. MWD and neut, you'll run into trouble ù but then again you can never fit neutrons on the domi either.
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Jin Entres
Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams
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Posted - 2009.03.12 11:39:00 -
[222]
Originally by: Tzar'rim
Actually, I disagree. Not on your facts but on your suggestion. I'd like to stop this EHP/passive idiocy as it removes most pros/cons from races and it makes for boring "lets duke it out" combat. You want to bring back Amarr 'in line'? make them have to actually tank and all of a sudden they run into fitting problems, cap problems and making their lack of midslots more of a problem, putting them back in place. It would also make the lack of tank on minmatar ships less of a problem as it can choose to run it's reppers without bothering about cap.
So; the solution to most of the imbalance issues is to STOP this passive/EHP approach as it removes the diferences between races/ships. JUST like nanoing did; ships that nanoed were good, ships that didn't weren't. It's too much of a deciding factor while ironing out the differences and pros/cons of different ships. Massively lower the EHP/passive tanking abilities and force people to have to tank actively again, THAT is the solution.
The changes needed to achieve this would have to be quite radical, in practice reverting the 50% HP boost + compensation skills. While it might be a better of a solution, the chances that CCP will do it ù especially considering that those changes had the rationale of prolonging combat ù are slim to none. Within realistic alternatives, bringing ships in line (which means passive tanking currently) is the best option to campaign for.
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Tzar'rim
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Posted - 2009.03.12 11:43:00 -
[223]
Oh yes, the chances of that happening are slim and the changes would be quite rigorous, it would also change fleet/0.0 combat completely.
But it's the ideal solution as it brings back the differences between ships/races.
Self-proclaimed idiot
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Tzar'rim
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Posted - 2009.03.12 11:45:00 -
[224]
Originally by: Jin Entres
Originally by: Tzar'rim
I don't get this; for some reason All that gallente want to fit are neutrons, and if this is not possible due to fitting (or more importantly due to lack of tracking) then it somehow 'sucks'. Kinda like going "Thorax with medium electrons suck, they must be ions or neutrons" which is total BS as THE best setup is in fact with electrons.
Most races have trouble fitting the biggest guns without compromising the setup, I really don't understand this "neutrons or go home" idiocy.
Does the Tempest have problems fitting 800mm? No. Does the Maelstrom? No. Does the Abaddon have problems fitting Mega Pulses? No. Does the Geddon? Not really. Do you see where I'm going?
Passive buffer tanks in general have no problem fitting the biggest guns. On the Hyperion it is the unviability of passive tanking (and hence -4000 PG reppers) that force smaller guns where its competitors don't face the same need for compromise.
Oh and of course the aforementioned ships will also run into trouble if they try to fit a repper or two. In the geddon's case, you might have to downgrade 2 guns to fit a heavy neut with otherwise passive. Admittedly if you want it all, incl. MWD and neut, you'll run into trouble ù but then again you can never fit neutrons on the domi either.
passively, again, no. I guess I should have explained it better or just combined with my "away with EHP" post :P
Self-proclaimed idiot
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Mag's
the united
Negative Ten.
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Posted - 2009.03.12 11:52:00 -
[225]
Originally by: NightmareX
Yes sir, boosting Blaster damage and Tracking is so gonna make other things in combat balanced, yeah, you sound very smart about that dude.
Boosting Blaster damage and tracking is going to make Autocannons to a piece of junk. Ktnxbai.
But fine, boost Blaster damage and tracking or whatever, but then do it to the Autocannons to. Before that happen, i'm not gonna support ANY Boosts to Blasters, EVER.
Erm last I looked, this was a thread about blasters, if you want AC's to be boosted, then start another thread.
Maybe you should take a chill pill before posting again, you seem to have lost your way a little.
Regards
Mag's |
Tzar'rim
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Posted - 2009.03.12 11:57:00 -
[226]
If people make idiot suggestions regarding balance "make the stuff I use do more damage, tracking and lower the fitting too I want to be UBARRRR" then accept that people will reply with "yeah right, and how about the others then".
Self-proclaimed idiot
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Mag's
the united
Negative Ten.
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Posted - 2009.03.12 12:03:00 -
[227]
mint
Regards
Mag's |
sophisticatedlimabean
Gallente
Delinquent Habits
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Posted - 2009.03.12 12:04:00 -
[228]
Originally by: Tzar'rim
If people make idiot suggestions regarding balance "make the stuff I use do more damage, tracking and lower the fitting too I want to be UBARRRR" then accept that people will reply with "yeah right, and how about the others then".
That depends on if the other gunnery systems need it.
Blaster do.
Lasers dont.
AC maybe do.
My views may reflect those of my corp/alliance, but if you wanna know for sure ask em for gods sake. |
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
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Posted - 2009.03.12 12:06:00 -
[229]
Edited by: NightmareX on 12/03/2009 12:07:06
Originally by: Mag's
Originally by: NightmareX
Yes sir, boosting Blaster damage and Tracking is so gonna make other things in combat balanced, yeah, you sound very smart about that dude.
Boosting Blaster damage and tracking is going to make Autocannons to a piece of junk. Ktnxbai.
But fine, boost Blaster damage and tracking or whatever, but then do it to the Autocannons to. Before that happen, i'm not gonna support ANY Boosts to Blasters, EVER.
Erm last I looked, this was a thread about blasters, if you want AC's to be boosted, then start another thread.
Maybe you should take a chill pill before posting again, you seem to have lost your way a little.
Are you ******ed?.
I said if you boost BLASTERS, yes i said Blasters, then boost Autocannons to. What i said have nothing to do with only Autocannons to do, it have something to do with boosting Autocannons IF Blasters get a boost.
I can't just say ow yah, Boost Blasters without giving any reasons that boosting Blasters will make Autocannons pretty crap. because it will do Autocannons extremely crap if you boost Blasters that way. If i want only Autocannons to be boosted, then yes, i will make a topic about it. Happy now?.
Everyone is allowed to say that.
It will be the same if i make a topic about: Bawwww, boost Autocannons falloff by 200%. Then you are free to say that crap, that will really make other weapon systems a bit crap then.
Now go and emo cry in a corner instead of crying to me that you sucks with Blasters.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Mag's
the united
Negative Ten.
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Posted - 2009.03.12 12:12:00 -
[230]
Originally by: NightmareX
Are you ******ed?.
Now go and emo cry in a corner instead of crying to me that you sucks with Blasters.
Classic.
Regards
Mag's |
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
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Posted - 2009.03.12 12:15:00 -
[231]
Edited by: NightmareX on 12/03/2009 12:16:16
Originally by: Mag's
Originally by: NightmareX
Are you ******ed?.
Now go and emo cry in a corner instead of crying to me that you sucks with Blasters.
Classic.
Yeah it's pretty classic that you didn't had anything to say against what i said to you. Out of words to say now?.
Or maybe it's because i'm right.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
sophisticatedlimabean
Gallente
Delinquent Habits
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Posted - 2009.03.12 12:19:00 -
[232]
Edited by: sophisticatedlimabean on 12/03/2009 12:19:15
Originally by: NightmareX
Or maybe it's because i'm right.
You add nothing to this topic but naive inexperienced noob troll.
Stop posting.
My views may reflect those of my corp/alliance, but if you wanna know for sure ask em for gods sake. |
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
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Posted - 2009.03.12 12:19:00 -
[233]
Edited by: NightmareX on 12/03/2009 12:20:04
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean
Originally by: NightmareX
Or maybe it's because i'm right.
You add nothing to this topic but naive troll.
Says who?.
Gonna do another e-peen stroke on how uber awesome you are by showing off your uber l33t 2k kills?.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
sophisticatedlimabean
Gallente
Delinquent Habits
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Posted - 2009.03.12 12:21:00 -
[234]
Edited by: sophisticatedlimabean on 12/03/2009 12:22:16
Originally by: NightmareX
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean
Originally by: NightmareX
Or maybe it's because i'm right.
You add nothing to this topic but naive troll.
Says who?.
Pretty much every person posting over these last few pages pal, how many times do you need to be told that your sissi warrior crap has no real application in TQ combat.
EFT gives better result than you do..
My views may reflect those of my corp/alliance, but if you wanna know for sure ask em for gods sake. |
Mag's
the united
Negative Ten.
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Posted - 2009.03.12 12:22:00 -
[235]
Originally by: NightmareX
Yeah it's pretty classic that you didn't had anything to say against what i said to you. Out of words to say now?.
Or maybe it's because i'm right.
If you took the time and looked, you'd find I actually support a boost to AC's.
Still, I find your reactions very funny, thanks for that.
Regards
Mag's |
Hepren D'narr
Gallente
Downfall inc.
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Posted - 2009.03.12 12:45:00 -
[236]
How about... Boost Blasters damage (something x 1.5 like), a bit more optimal but less falloff. Then, boost AC:s giving them more tracking and falloff (maybe some damage increase needed? idk). How does that sound?
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Ig Neus
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Posted - 2009.03.12 13:01:00 -
[237]
Edited by: Ig Neus on 12/03/2009 13:03:04
I am sorry but, when I read Hyperion's description, I understand that it is supposed to be the best Blaster ship out there. Currently it sucks, meaning that there is no Blaster ship at Abaddon's level.
This is relevant to this thread, since we cannot compare weapon systems without putting them on a ship and currently we have no decent Tier 3 Battleship to put Blasters on (Rokh while good does not have a damage bonus).
And I think we should expect the Gallente Tier 3 Battleship to be able to fit a decent Armor Tank AND the biggest Blasters, just like a Maelstrom (hint : Great active tank) can.
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Fistme
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Posted - 2009.03.12 13:07:00 -
[238]
Originally by: Hepren D'narr
How about... Boost Blasters damage (something x 1.5 like), a bit more optimal but less falloff. Then, boost AC:s giving them more tracking and falloff (maybe some damage increase needed? idk). How does that sound?
Sounds broken...
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
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Posted - 2009.03.12 13:18:00 -
[239]
Edited by: NightmareX on 12/03/2009 13:21:04
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean
EFT gives better result than you do..
Nope, your wrong. Or for me your totally wrong.
My stats and results of actually flying a ship and test a ship to it's limit, it worth 5678567300 times more for ME than EFT numbers.
Well maybe in your noob world EFT numbers is worth more than just using a ship. I can't say it isn't though. Because everyone is different and have different opinions on things.
But for me the results and stats i have got from the ships i have been testing on sisi is worth ALOT for me on TQ.
And what's better than that?.
End of story. Nothing can change that.
Originally by: Fistme
Originally by: Hepren D'narr
How about... Boost Blasters damage (something x 1.5 like), a bit more optimal but less falloff. Then, boost AC:s giving them more tracking and falloff (maybe some damage increase needed? idk). How does that sound?
Sounds broken...
It sounds alot more than just broken tbh.
It called more like making PVP combat in EVE extremely unbalanced. And doing that is more then just broken.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Tzar'rim
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Posted - 2009.03.12 13:31:00 -
[240]
Edited by: Tzar''rim on 12/03/2009 13:33:55
Originally by: Ig Neus
Edited by: Ig Neus on 12/03/2009 13:03:04
I am sorry but, when I read Hyperion's description, I understand that it is supposed to be the best Blaster ship out there. Currently it sucks, meaning that there is no Blaster ship at Abaddon's level.
This is relevant to this thread, since we cannot compare weapon systems without putting them on a ship and currently we have no decent Tier 3 Battleship to put Blasters on (Rokh while good does not have a damage bonus).
And I think we should expect the Gallente Tier 3 Battleship to be able to fit a decent Armor Tank AND the biggest Blasters, just like a Maelstrom (hint : Great active tank) can.
I would argue that the Rokh actually is one of the best blasterships, if used in a fleet. For solo/small gang however the mega is king. Same thing for the Mael; great in fleet, not so good solo/small gang.
Self-proclaimed idiot
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Hepren D'narr
Gallente
Downfall inc.
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Posted - 2009.03.12 13:51:00 -
[241]
Originally by: NightmareX
Originally by: Fistme
Originally by: Hepren D'narr
How about... Boost Blasters damage (something x 1.5 like), a bit more optimal but less falloff. Then, boost AC:s giving them more tracking and falloff (maybe some damage increase needed? idk). How does that sound?
Sounds broken...
It sounds alot more than just broken tbh.
It called more like making PVP combat in EVE extremely unbalanced. And doing that is more then just broken.
Care to explain why? It would make Blaster really effecitve at close range and AC's would work at their intented range well better then now.
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Ig Neus
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Posted - 2009.03.12 13:52:00 -
[242]
Originally by: Tzar'rim
I would argue that the Rokh actually is one of the best blasterships, if used in a fleet. For solo/small gang however the mega is king. Same thing for the Mael; great in fleet, not so good solo/small gang.
Well generally fleet warfare is about sniping or at least long range battleships. No Blastership has a place there. Rokh, just like Maelstrom, is a nice ship for small gangs as well, as long as you have people to tackle for you so you do not have to gimp your tank.
Personally, if I were to crosstrain for another Battleship, it would probably be Maelstrom. Not because it is the best (Abaddon takes that spot) but because I prefer the idea of actively tanking ~1000 DPS for over 2 mins without even using my Cap Booster and doing close to 1150 DPS (yes yes this is EFT number, not real one) using Hail.
Anyway, my point is that while Rokh can be a nice Battleship even for small gangs (under same conditions as any other shield tank, aka you do not have to fit scrambler/web in your mediums), it has one deffensive bonus (that helps in close range fights but does not influence blasters) and a mainly sniping offensive bonus. So it is not a nice platform to use for evaluating Blasters.
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Tzar'rim
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Posted - 2009.03.12 13:54:00 -
[243]
Well yes, not fleet... fleet, but shortrange. We're talking about blasters remember :P
Self-proclaimed idiot
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
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Posted - 2009.03.12 14:05:00 -
[244]
Originally by: Hepren D'narr
Originally by: NightmareX
Originally by: Fistme
Originally by: Hepren D'narr
How about... Boost Blasters damage (something x 1.5 like), a bit more optimal but less falloff. Then, boost AC:s giving them more tracking and falloff (maybe some damage increase needed? idk). How does that sound?
Sounds broken...
It sounds alot more than just broken tbh.
It called more like making PVP combat in EVE extremely unbalanced. And doing that is more then just broken.
Care to explain why? It would make Blaster really effecitve at close range and AC's would work at their intented range well better then now.
Do i really need to explan why?.
Are you guys so stupid to not see why it would be really really bad for PVP and why it would make combat / PVP unbalanced in EVE?.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
MenanceWhite
Amarr
SniggWaffe
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Posted - 2009.03.12 14:14:00 -
[245]
Originally by: Hepren D'narr
Care to explain why?
Because then you'll suddenly find killer taranis and feroxes flying around while at the same time pushing the AC more towards range direction where it's still outclassed by pulse lasers.
---
Originally by: Torfi
There's alot. That can be done. With.. corpses
Originally by: Oveur
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Hepren D'narr
Gallente
Downfall inc.
|
Posted - 2009.03.12 14:15:00 -
[246]
Try it. I would like to hear why it would make PvP so unbalanced. I myself have done some gallante pvp, but I want like to hear your opinion about this issue.
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sophisticatedlimabean
Gallente
Delinquent Habits
|
Posted - 2009.03.12 14:32:00 -
[247]
Originally by: NightmareX
Nope, your wrong. Or for me your totally wrong.
My stats and results of actually flying a ship and test a ship to it's limits, it worth 5678567300 times more for ME than silly EFT numbers.
Sissi stats and sissi opinions for a full time sissi warrior and all of it worthless for TQ and as such worthless for this thread as its about blasters in actual pvp on TQ.
My views may reflect those of my corp/alliance, but if you wanna know for sure ask em for gods sake. |
Goumindong
Amarr
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.03.12 14:34:00 -
[248]
Originally by: prodalt
Originally by: Liang Nuren
I know what you're saying... but there's alot of people that are saying that what you see *on sisi* doesn't line up with what they see *on tq*. And TQ *DOES* take precedence. So if you want to refute them... use TQ to do so.
-Liang
They're both anecdotal and spurious accounts
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.03.12 14:35:00 -
[249]
Edited by: NightmareX on 12/03/2009 14:36:18
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean
Originally by: NightmareX
Nope, your wrong. Or for me your totally wrong.
My stats and results of actually flying a ship and test a ship to it's limits, it worth 5678567300 times more for ME than silly EFT numbers.
Sissi stats and sissi opinions for a full time sissi warrior and all of it worthless for TQ and as such worthless for this thread as its about blasters in actual pvp on TQ.
So you mean my stats that actually are worth more than you even can imagine are not worth anything on TQ, when they helps me with alot of things on TQ only because it's from sisi?.
I don't care if i get the stats from my self or my dog on Sisi or even from santa claus. As long the stats are helping me on many things, then i'm happy.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Alpha Prime
Destructive Influence
KenZoku
|
Posted - 2009.03.12 16:00:00 -
[250]
All i know is that today i setup a Megathron for gank with Neutron and 3x mag2's and
i was hitting a Rohk for 2-300 on his hull when he wasn't moving. And i got maxed skills
for blasters. None of us were moving. So final conclusion is that L-Blasters SUXX atm.
Oveur 2006: We're going to make blobwarfare less effective.
Oveur 2008: We're installing better code so players can bring bigger blobs.
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Tzar'rim
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Posted - 2009.03.12 16:07:00 -
[251]
Originally by: Alpha Prime
All i know is that today i setup a Megathron for gank with Neutron and 3x mag2's and
i was hitting a Rohk for 2-300 on his hull when he wasn't moving. And i got maxed skills
for blasters. None of us were moving. So final conclusion is that L-Blasters SUXX atm.
Yes because the thing that got changed was blaster damage, that's why it's "crap" now. With this sort of reasoning, why are you in the corp you're in?
Self-proclaimed idiot
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.03.12 16:13:00 -
[252]
Edited by: NightmareX on 12/03/2009 16:17:24
Originally by: Alpha Prime
All i know is that today i setup a Megathron for gank with Neutron and 3x mag2's and
i was hitting a Rohk for 2-300 on his hull when he wasn't moving. And i got maxed skills
for blasters. None of us were moving. So final conclusion is that L-Blasters SUXX atm.
If the Rokh had a Damage Control II fitted, then yes, those damages are normal.
Before the hull resists, you would take 550-650 damage per gun, it will be random on what the damage will be from time to time. So take 600 damage per gun for example before DC II x 7 guns. That will be 4200 damage. And 4200 damage per volley will pop a non Damage Control II fitted Rokh in hull in 3 volleys.
And that's normal. Seems pretty accurate to me.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Alpha Prime
Destructive Influence
KenZoku
|
Posted - 2009.03.12 16:34:00 -
[253]
Exactly my point. L-Blaster damage is only good on paper. Once everything is taken into
account, the damage isn't that good. You have to realize that Kin&Them damage is the overall
mostly resisted types. Considering the HP-buff, the insane Cap-use and ****ty tracking,
blasters currently have way too much speaking against the use of them.
A Battleship setup with blasters needs to be able to rip through other ships, just like
they did pre-castor when a Megathron with 5 Neutrons could **** a raven once it got close.
Oveur 2006: We're going to make blobwarfare less effective.
Oveur 2008: We're installing better code so players can bring bigger blobs.
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.03.12 16:57:00 -
[254]
Originally by: Alpha Prime
A Battleship setup with blasters needs to be able to rip through other ships, just like
they did pre-castor when a Megathron with 5 Neutrons could **** a raven once it got close.
Yeah, but wasn't the HP buff to all ships because ships should last longer in PVP then?.
Don't whine that ship doesn't instapop to you when they are in Hull, because it's not supposed to be like that.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Ig Neus
|
Posted - 2009.03.12 16:58:00 -
[255]
Originally by: Alpha Prime
You have to realize that Kin&Them damage is the overall mostly resisted types.
/Edit: And everything does good damage on unresisted Hull. Try a t2 1400 or t2 Tachy....
A) No way. EM is mostly tanked type on the vast majority of Gallente and Amarr Battleships that fit Trimarks + EANMs. It is also the same for Minmatar Armor tanked Battleships. Things can be different on tech 2 boats but we are discussing Battleship class weapons here and they usually are used against Battleships.
B) Hull has same resistances to each damage type (0). So everything does good damage on unresisted Hull but Blasters do the best since they do the best generally.
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Alpha Prime
Destructive Influence
KenZoku
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Posted - 2009.03.12 17:02:00 -
[256]
Originally by: NightmareX
Yeah, but wasn't the HP buff to all ships because ships should last longer in PVP then?.
Don't whine that ship doesn't instapop to you when they are in Hull, because it's not supposed to be like that.
No. Its supposed to be like if you get a blastership next to you, shooting you, you're dead
unless you can warp away or the blastership gets jammed. THAT is how it's suppose to be.
I always like to compared Blasterships with Mike Tyson. If you stay out of range from his
arms, you're fine. But if you get hit... R.I.P.
Oveur 2006: We're going to make blobwarfare less effective.
Oveur 2008: We're installing better code so players can bring bigger blobs.
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marakor
Gallente
Anti Lag Forum Smackers
|
Posted - 2009.03.12 17:05:00 -
[257]
Originally by: Alpha Prime
Originally by: NightmareX
Yeah, but wasn't the HP buff to all ships because ships should last longer in PVP then?.
Don't whine that ship doesn't instapop to you when they are in Hull, because it's not supposed to be like that.
No. Its supposed to be like if you get a blastership next to you, shooting you, you're dead
unless you can warp away or the blastership gets jammed. THAT is how it's suppose to be.
I always like to compared Blasterships with Mike Tyson. If you stay out of range from his
arms, you're fine. But if you get hit... R.I.P.
The problem is that the other boxers especially amarr boxers have only 30% less power (after standard resists) and 1000% more reach.
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Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Blackguard Coalition
|
Posted - 2009.03.12 17:30:00 -
[258]
Originally by: Ig Neus
Personally, if I were to crosstrain for another Battleship, it would probably be Maelstrom. Not because it is the best (Abaddon takes that spot) but because I prefer the idea of actively tanking ~1000 DPS for over 2 mins without even using my Cap Booster and doing close to 1150 DPS (yes yes this is EFT number, not real one) using Hail.
Yeah... about that. Hail L was crap *before* they nerfed webs. Now it doesn't even bear mentioning.
-Liang
--
Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
www.kwikdeath.org |
Ig Neus
|
Posted - 2009.03.12 17:43:00 -
[259]
Edited by: Ig Neus on 12/03/2009 17:44:01
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: Ig Neus
Personally, if I were to crosstrain for another Battleship, it would probably be Maelstrom. Not because it is the best (Abaddon takes that spot) but because I prefer the idea of actively tanking ~1000 DPS for over 2 mins without even using my Cap Booster and doing close to 1150 DPS (yes yes this is EFT number, not real one) using Hail.
Yeah... about that. Hail L was crap *before* they nerfed webs. Now it doesn't even bear mentioning.
-Liang
Well Liang I fly together with people in Gank Megathrons camping war targets in stations. And I mean literally staying on the undock point and waiting.
So targets we attack get enough webs (1/Megathron + some from tacklers :p)on them and Range is not a big issue either.
This probably is the reason I find Blaster ships (and Hail L) to be ok :P
Edit : When not camping something, I hate flying Battleships. In fact I generally hate flying anything bigger than Cruiser but I can understand the need of flying bigger things for those situations ;p
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Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Blackguard Coalition
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Posted - 2009.03.12 17:48:00 -
[260]
Ya but even in situations like that, Hail is pretty crap (I've used it a bit myself there). About the only time I'd recommend it is if you're hitting a cap ship.
-Liang
--
Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
www.kwikdeath.org |
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Zubakis
Bambooule
|
Posted - 2009.03.12 17:51:00 -
[261]
Originally by: Ig Neus
Well Liang I fly together with people in Gank Megathrons camping war targets in stations. And I mean literally staying on the undock point and waiting.
So targets we attack get enough webs (1/Megathron + some from tacklers :p)on them and Range is not a big issue either.
This probably is the reason I find Blaster ships (and Hail L) to be ok :P
Yeah, that's what blasterships good at, sit at undock point and gank stuff
I want a Mike Tyson.
-- Zuba |
Ig Neus
|
Posted - 2009.03.12 18:09:00 -
[262]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Ya but even in situations like that, Hail is pretty crap (I've used it a bit myself there). About the only time I'd recommend it is if you're hitting a cap ship.
-Liang
I'll take your word for that since I have 0 Skill Points in Projectiles... :P
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.03.12 18:30:00 -
[263]
Originally by: Zubakis
Originally by: Ig Neus
Well Liang I fly together with people in Gank Megathrons camping war targets in stations. And I mean literally staying on the undock point and waiting.
So targets we attack get enough webs (1/Megathron + some from tacklers :p)on them and Range is not a big issue either.
This probably is the reason I find Blaster ships (and Hail L) to be ok :P
Yeah, that's what blasterships good at, sit at undock point and gank stuff
I want a Mike Tyson.
Or just warp in right on top of the target(s) and blast them to hell, woooooosssshhhh.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
JadeMako
Aliastra
|
Posted - 2009.03.12 18:51:00 -
[264]
Originally by: NightmareX
Or just warp in right on top of the target(s) and blast them to hell, woooooosssshhhh.
Yeah gosh its fun doing that on Sisi *shucks*
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LLM Raoul
|
Posted - 2009.03.12 19:01:00 -
[265]
I'm not skilled or experienced but I can tell by the way people that play Minnie fit and cherish their ships that maybe they're not the best, but they sure as hell have bastard ships from hell that are fast, fun, and versatile.
My training currently is going towards the Hurricane (both Arty and AC) for missioning and low-sec piracy, and my long term plan involves the Vaga.
The Vaga is an art and it's very much like weed: a state of spirit that causes addiction.
Sidenote: Zealot cross-training seems like an absolute must for the low-sec pirate. So for full versatility cross-train this if you ain't in any hurry. Besides... Who cares about proficiency and time spent on training etc.? Minnie ships I said + Zealot at the end is teh win.
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.03.12 19:03:00 -
[266]
Edited by: NightmareX on 12/03/2009 19:05:32
Originally by: JadeMako
Originally by: NightmareX
Or just warp in right on top of the target(s) and blast them to hell, woooooosssshhhh.
Yeah gosh its fun doing that on Sisi *shucks*
LOL.
Well, you can still do it on TQ to, duh, it just take 2 clicks. 1. Jump in. 2. Warp to one of your gang mates that are pretty close to them.
Easy peasy.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
marakor
Gallente
Anti Lag Forum Smackers
|
Posted - 2009.03.12 19:09:00 -
[267]
Originally by: NightmareX
Edited by: NightmareX on 12/03/2009 19:05:32
Originally by: JadeMako
Originally by: NightmareX
Or just warp in right on top of the target(s) and blast them to hell, woooooosssshhhh.
Yeah gosh its fun doing that on Sisi *shucks*
LOL.
Well, you can still do it on TQ to, duh, it just take 2 clicks. 1. Jump in. 2. Warp to one of your gang mates that are pretty close to them.
Easy peasy.
Maybe kill the first ship and then spend the rest of the fight mwding around trying to get into range and doing crap dmg.....
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Ad Valorem
|
Posted - 2009.03.12 19:16:00 -
[268]
Originally by: marakor
Originally by: NightmareX
LOL.
Well, you can still do it on TQ to, duh, it just take 2 clicks. 1. Jump in. 2. Warp to one of your gang mates that are pretty close to them.
Easy peasy.
Maybe kill the first ship and then spend the rest of the fight mwding around trying to get into range and doing crap dmg.....
And target is either completely stationary with multi webs on it and preferably a target painter, or is battleship size or bigger (and hope he is also staying pretty still)
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.03.12 19:17:00 -
[269]
Edited by: NightmareX on 12/03/2009 19:18:57
Originally by: marakor
Maybe kill the first ship and then spend the rest of the fight mwding around trying to get into range and doing crap dmg.....
Your doing it wrong then pal.
Use your brain a little and you will not have any problems.
Gosh, i really like those who still think a Megathron is the easy mode ship as it was before.
But no, it's not. You have to use your brain way more now than you had to do earlier.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
heslookinatu
|
Posted - 2009.03.12 19:37:00 -
[270]
Originally by: NightmareX
Edited by: NightmareX on 12/03/2009 19:29:29
Originally by: marakor
Maybe kill the first ship and then spend the rest of the fight mwding around trying to get into range and doing crap dmg.....
Your doing it wrong then pal.
Use your brain a little and you will not have any problems.
Gosh, i really like those who still think a Megathron is the easy mode ship as it was before.
But no, it's not. You have to use your brain way more now than you had to do earlier.
Welcome to the same world as us Minmatarians where almost everything in EVE have been on Hard Mode since the start.
How do you use your brain to make your ship move faster? if the gang is sitting 20km apart from each other, you have to mwd to ~5km fight the first ship as its about to die mwd to the next one while your gang can keep doing damage.
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marakor
Gallente
Anti Lag Forum Smackers
|
Posted - 2009.03.12 19:37:00 -
[271]
Originally by: NightmareX
Originally by: marakor
Maybe kill the first ship and then spend the rest of the fight mwding around trying to get into range and doing crap dmg.....
Your doing it wrong then pal.
Use your brain a little and you will not have any problems.
Oh thats right i remember you saying that blasters ships should warp in and out......
Here is the thing, ppl on TQ do not sit around waiting for you every time you do that, and that is ignoring the fact that there's probably gonna be bubbles all over the place if you in 0.0.
Stick to your worthless "organized" sissi pvp dude you have no clue about TQ, hey maybe if they put arenas or BF areas on TQ you may know wtf you are talking about.
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Fistme
|
Posted - 2009.03.12 20:22:00 -
[272]
So I think at this point it's become rather obvious that there are inhearent flaws in the practical use of Large and to a smaller extent medium blasters in the current meta-game. That being said I think it's time we stop arguing with obvious trolls and start debating about what can be done to fix the state of this weapon class in today's eve.
To come up with a reasonable "fix" We are going to have to first diagnose the problem with how they function. The first issue that I come across is the "realistic" application of DPS. In a sense the problem is that in comparison to other weapon systems the travel time (loss of DPS) between targets that is often required to bring blasters into range is not made up for by the damage output that blasters put out. This brings me to my first proposal, a mild increase in damage, not tracking. Tracking buff would send us back to the days in which a single blaster BS had almost no problems melting cruisers and even to a lesser degree frigates.
I think that a Modest 5% increase in damage would be a good place to start.
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vostok
Minmatar
Shadow of xXDEATHXx
|
Posted - 2009.03.12 20:53:00 -
[273]
Originally by: Fistme
So I think at this point it's become rather obvious that there are inhearent flaws in the practical use of Large and to a smaller extent medium blasters in the current meta-game. That being said I think it's time we stop arguing with obvious trolls and start debating about what can be done to fix the state of this weapon class in today's eve.
To come up with a reasonable "fix" We are going to have to first diagnose the problem with how they function. The first issue that I come across is the "realistic" application of DPS. In a sense the problem is that in comparison to other weapon systems the travel time (loss of DPS) between targets that is often required to bring blasters into range is not made up for by the damage output that blasters put out. This brings me to my first proposal, a mild increase in damage, not tracking. Tracking buff would send us back to the days in which a single blaster BS had almost no problems melting cruisers and even to a lesser degree frigates.
I think that a Modest 5% increase in damage would be a good place to start.
LOL, well, 5% is a lot more modest than the 50% increase I saw earlier, got to say I would like to see a damage increase of maybe 10 to 15% though that could easily come from a rof boost
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.03.12 21:23:00 -
[274]
Edited by: NightmareX on 12/03/2009 21:24:24
Originally by: marakor
Originally by: NightmareX
Originally by: marakor
Maybe kill the first ship and then spend the rest of the fight mwding around trying to get into range and doing crap dmg.....
Your doing it wrong then pal.
Use your brain a little and you will not have any problems.
Oh thats right i remember you saying that blasters ships should warp in and out......
Here is the thing, ppl on TQ do not sit around waiting for you every time you do that, and that is ignoring the fact that there's probably gonna be bubbles all over the place if you in 0.0.
Stick to your worthless "organized" sissi pvp dude you have no clue about TQ, hey maybe if they put arenas or BF areas on TQ you may know wtf you are talking about.
Oh noes, epic whines again when you see that i'm telling you some facts.
If you want to emo cry, you know where the corner is.
Oh about that warping out and then in again, yeah, that was actually one of the things that you can do if your smart, if the targets are to far away, and then let the faster ships tackle them.
And then warp back in to the tacklers. I know many who does that in Megathrons.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
sophisticatedlimabean
Gallente
Delinquent Habits
|
Posted - 2009.03.12 21:31:00 -
[275]
Edited by: sophisticatedlimabean on 12/03/2009 21:33:13
Originally by: NightmareX
Oh about that warping out and then in again, yeah, that was actually one of the things that you can do if your smart, if the targets are to far away, and then let the faster ships tackle them.
And then warp back in to the tacklers. I know many who does that in Megathrons.
So you are saying that megas can only fight if the opposing side has no bubbles, no tacklers and no points on their ships and apparently no weapons fitted or drones as they will be just sitting still or burning ect and ignoring the megas tacklers as the megas warp in and out....
Just stop posting your utter inexperience and total lack of understanding about TQ pvp is a embarrassment.
My views may reflect those of my corp/alliance, but if you wanna know for sure ask em for gods sake. |
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.03.12 21:46:00 -
[276]
Edited by: NightmareX on 12/03/2009 21:49:32
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean
Edited by: sophisticatedlimabean on 12/03/2009 21:43:28
Originally by: NightmareX
Oh about that warping out and then in again, yeah, that was actually one of the things that you can do if your smart, if the targets are to far away, and then let the faster ships tackle them.
And then warp back in to the tacklers. I know many who does that in Megathrons.
So you are saying that megas can only fight if the opposing side has no bubbles, no tacklers and no points on their ships and apparently no weapons fitted or drones as they will be just sitting still or burning ect and ignoring the megas tacklers as the megas warp in and out....
Just stop posting your utter inexperience and total lack of understanding about TQ pvp is a embarrassment.
Crawl back to sissi i am sure if you ask nicely in FD- local somebody will be willing to fly a certain class of ship, in a certain way, in one of the BF areas for you. You will not need a logged in scout to watch for support, he will not have any buddies and if he breaks any of the rules and pods you, you have only lost a few 100isk for those lovely T2 rigs and HG implants..oh and you can cry to ccp and get him punished...
WAAAAH WAAAAH WAAAAAH, gimmeh some more epic whines please. It's so funny to see you goes eeeeeeeeemmmmmmmmmoooooooooo raaaaaaaaaaaaaaaagggggggggeeeeeeeeee and rabble rabble rabble about Sisi all the time..
This is about TQ not about sisi.
Mention sisi one more time in this topic, and i will make sure that you will get reported.
And if this was in empire, then what?. Then it's fully possible.
And if this is in 0.0 space, you should MWD ASAP out of a bubble anyways, so you can then just MWD to the targets and kill them instead as long they are not in the bubble them self.
And oh, have you forgotten to give me an answer on why Blasters works so good for me?.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Blackguard Coalition
|
Posted - 2009.03.12 21:49:00 -
[277]
Originally by: NightmareX
And oh, have you forgotten to give me an answer on why Blasters works so good for me?.
Because you don't actually use them on TQ. 
Sorry, I couldn't resist!! I know you do use them on TQ, but you're still trying to refute people's TQ observations based on Sisi experiences. Nobody will take you seriously (no matter how much they should) as long as you do that. :-/
-Liang
--
Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
www.kwikdeath.org |
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.03.12 21:51:00 -
[278]
Edited by: NightmareX on 12/03/2009 21:55:39
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: NightmareX
And oh, have you forgotten to give me an answer on why Blasters works so good for me?.
Because you don't actually use them on TQ.
Sorry, I couldn't resist!! I know you do use them on TQ, but you're still trying to refute people's TQ observations based on Sisi experiences. Nobody will take you seriously (no matter how much they should) as long as you do that. :-/
-Liang
I have a Megathron Navy Issue with 7x Neutron II's on TQ FYI.
Should i link the setup to you?. Or maybe i should not, because sophisticatedlimabean would go emo rage then and think i'm only doing e-peen.
But in fact, it's him self that are doing the e-peen with his silly 2k kills lol.
I just haven't used it in PVP yet.
EDIT: Meh, screw that whiner anyways. Here is the setup i use on it atm: LINK.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Nova Satar
Annihilate.
|
Posted - 2009.03.12 21:53:00 -
[279]
Originally by: heslookinatu
Originally by: Naomi Knight
Originally by: heslookinatu
Originally by: Furb Killer
If you just want the best it isnt even close, go amarr.
Not interested in the FOTM best i figured the post made that pretty clear.
Train caldari ^^
Caldari is the complete opposite of what i was reffering to in the OP
Are you a ******?
You gave up on blasters becuase you don;t know anything.
You don't want Amarr becuase you think it's FOTM.
And apparantly Caldari is the opposite of what you want.
Yet you still needed to create this thread to find out what to train?
How many races do you think there are?
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sophisticatedlimabean
Gallente
Delinquent Habits
|
Posted - 2009.03.12 21:54:00 -
[280]
Edited by: sophisticatedlimabean on 12/03/2009 21:56:56
Originally by: NightmareX
And if this was in empire, then what?. Then it's fully possible.
Because ppl do not fit points or have tacklers in empire?????....
Originally by: NightmareX
And if this is in 0.0 space, you should MWD ASAP out of a bubble anyways, so you better MWD to the targets instead as long they are not in the bubble them self.
That brings us back to virtually perma running a MWD and chasing after every hostile ship...ie: being useless and losing....so much for the stupid warping out idea....
Originally by: NightmareX
And oh, have you forgotten to give me an answer on why Blasters works so good for me?.
I have seen you make no posts about any massive and regular successes you get on TQ, when you make some i will read them, check them for truth and accuracy as you tend to lie a lot, then i may comment on them.
My views may reflect those of my corp/alliance, but if you wanna know for sure ask em for gods sake. |
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Mag's
the united
Negative Ten.
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Posted - 2009.03.12 21:59:00 -
[281]
Man I've missed all the fun while at work.
I've been doing it wrong all this time!!!!! damn it.
Mag's > Wait guys, I'm just going to warp out and back in again.
*waits
Mag's > Still aligning, won't be long now.
*waits
Mag's > In warp now, I'll turn and warp back asap.
*waits
Mag's > Just coming out of warp, I'll turn in a mo and warp to Bill
*waits
Mag's > Right I'm turning.
*waits
Mag's > Almost in warp.
*waits
Mag's > OK now warping back.
*waits
Mag's > What do you mean the fights over????????
Regards
Mag's |
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.03.12 22:00:00 -
[282]
Edited by: NightmareX on 12/03/2009 22:01:45
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean
Edited by: sophisticatedlimabean on 12/03/2009 21:55:02
Originally by: NightmareX
And if this was in empire, then what?. Then it's fully possible.
Because ppl do not fit points or have tacklers in empire?????....
Originally by: NightmareX
And if this is in 0.0 space, you should MWD ASAP out of a bubble anyways, so you better MWD to the targets instead as long they are not in the bubble them self.
That brings us back to virtually perma running a MWD and chasing after every hostile ship...is: being useless and losing.
Originally by: NightmareX
And oh, have you forgotten to give me an answer on why Blasters works so good for me?.
I have seen you make no posts about any massive and regular successes you get on TQ, when you make some i will read them, check them for truth and accuracy as you tend to lie a lot, then i may comment on them.
Oh god, your loving to twist on the words here dude.
If the tacklers are near our gang in empire, their so gonna die anyways, and if the tacklers are scrambling us and then their BS'es are coming close to us. Then what will happen?.
Yes this is if we are in a med size Gallente BS gang.
About the MWD thing again. Do you wanna kill the targets or run away or sit still in a Bubble?.
And also, if you can't answer me on why Blasters works pretty good for me, then i'll guess you sucks.
Every player who use Blasters right knows that Blasters is working good.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
sophisticatedlimabean
Gallente
Delinquent Habits
|
Posted - 2009.03.12 22:00:00 -
[283]
Originally by: Mag's
Man I've missed all the fun while at work.
I've been doing it wrong all this time!!!!! damn it.
Mag's > Wait guys, I'm just going to warp out and back in again.
*waits
Mag's > Still aligning, won't be long now.
*waits
Mag's > In warp now, I'll turn and warp back asap.
*waits
Mag's > Just coming out of warp, I'll turn in a mo and warp to Bill
*waits
Mag's > Right I'm turning.
*waits
Mag's > Almost in warp.
*waits
Mag's > OK now warping back.
*waits
Mag's > What do you mean the fights over????????
They wait for you on sissi though...maybe you should fly there..
My views may reflect those of my corp/alliance, but if you wanna know for sure ask em for gods sake. |
sophisticatedlimabean
Gallente
Delinquent Habits
|
Posted - 2009.03.12 22:05:00 -
[284]
Edited by: sophisticatedlimabean on 12/03/2009 22:05:01
Originally by: NightmareX
blah blah worthless troll...
And also, if you can't answer me on why Blasters works pretty good for me, then i'll guess you sucks
Lets hear some of your uber TQ BLASTER BS experiences from the last few months (or even from since the web nerf ect) and i may make a comment.
My views may reflect those of my corp/alliance, but if you wanna know for sure ask em for gods sake. |
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.03.12 22:05:00 -
[285]
Originally by: Mag's
Man I've missed all the fun while at work.
I've been doing it wrong all this time!!!!! damn it.
Mag's > Wait guys, I'm just going to warp out and back in again.
*waits
Mag's > Still aligning, won't be long now.
*waits
Mag's > In warp now, I'll turn and warp back asap.
*waits
Mag's > Just coming out of warp, I'll turn in a mo and warp to Bill
*waits
Mag's > Right I'm turning.
*waits
Mag's > Almost in warp.
*waits
Mag's > OK now warping back.
*waits
Mag's > What do you mean the fights over????????
Yeah what else would you do?, we have to do something to spare on the cap on the Mega because you seems to have a big problem with the ship by using the MWD a bit in a fight.
First you whine like an idiot that omgomgwaaaaaah we have to use so much cap to get to the targets. Then fine, i gave a solution to use way less cap.
Happy now?.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Mag's
the united
Negative Ten.
|
Posted - 2009.03.12 22:06:00 -
[286]
Very happy. Comedy gold infact.
Regards
Mag's |
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.03.12 22:07:00 -
[287]
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean
Originally by: NightmareX
blah blah worthless troll...
And also, if you can't answer me on why Blasters works pretty good for me, then i'll guess you sucks
Lets hear some of your uber TQ BS experiences from the last few months (or even from since the web nerf ect) and i may make a comment.
Lets hear something from your uber EFT stats, they seems to be so damn true. 1k DPS from a Geddon must be better than a Megathron with 950 DPS in every possible way, because it says the DPS is better, rite?.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
sophisticatedlimabean
Gallente
Delinquent Habits
|
Posted - 2009.03.12 22:07:00 -
[288]
Originally by: NightmareX
Yeah what else would you do?, we have to do something to spare on the cap on the Mega because you seems to have a big problem with the ship by using the MWD a bit in a fight.
First you whine like an idiot that omgomgwaaaaaah we have to use so much cap to get to the targets. Then fine, i gave a solution to use way less cap.
Happy now?.
A naive and stupid idea that only works if the opposition has not tackle ships or even tackle fitted on any of their other ships is not a solution its a joke.
My views may reflect those of my corp/alliance, but if you wanna know for sure ask em for gods sake. |
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.03.12 22:08:00 -
[289]
Originally by: Mag's
Very happy. Comedy gold infact.
Yeah it's pretty comedy gold that this is actually a solution to the noobs with no capacitor skills.
Because they can't use the MWD much before they run out of cap heh.
More happy now?.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.03.12 22:09:00 -
[290]
Edited by: NightmareX on 12/03/2009 22:11:33
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean
Originally by: NightmareX
Yeah what else would you do?, we have to do something to spare on the cap on the Mega because you seems to have a big problem with the ship by using the MWD a bit in a fight.
First you whine like an idiot that omgomgwaaaaaah we have to use so much cap to get to the targets. Then fine, i gave a solution to use way less cap.
Happy now?.
A naive and stupid idea that only works if the opposition has not tackle ships or even tackle fitted on any of their other ships is not a solution its a joke.
Tell me exactly why that's a stupid idea and a joke?.
I want to hear your story to see if your any smart when it's about that.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
|
|
sophisticatedlimabean
Gallente
Delinquent Habits
|
Posted - 2009.03.12 22:16:00 -
[291]
Edited by: sophisticatedlimabean on 12/03/2009 22:16:29
Originally by: NightmareX
Lets hear something from your uber EFT stats, they seems to be so damn true. 1k DPS from a Geddon must be better than a Megathron with 950 DPS in every possible way, because it says the DPS is better, rite?.
Need to change the subject do you, hardly surprising after making a tool of yourself....maybe you should have picked a better one.
Interesting that you pick the geddon but considering the 1k dps from the geddon is from 0-45km then yes its a better gunship when you consider the available targets and realistic uses of BS on TQ.
My views may reflect those of my corp/alliance, but if you wanna know for sure ask em for gods sake. |
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.03.12 22:20:00 -
[292]
Edited by: NightmareX on 12/03/2009 22:26:13
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean
Originally by: NightmareX
Lets hear something from your uber EFT stats, they seems to be so damn true. 1k DPS from a Geddon must be better than a Megathron with 950 DPS in every possible way, because it says the DPS is better, rite?.
Need to change the subject do you, hardly surprising and making a tool of yourself....maybe you should have picked a better one.
Interesting that you pick the geddon but considering the 1k dps from the geddon is from 0-45km then yes its a better gunship when you consider the available targets and realistic uses of BS on TQ.
Yeah, and those 1k DPS from a geddon at 2 km on an omni tanked BS is going to be how much DPS??????.
Take the omni tank into the picture here. A Megathron with 900 DPS is going to do alot more damage to my Tempest for example than a geddon with 1k DPS would do, just for your information.
But no, the range isn't all. The range advantage on Lasers is ONLY because Amarr ships isn't suited to use speed mods.
And therefor, Lasers have got the range.
But still, take the omni tank into the picture and those 1k DPS is going to be laughtable.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
sophisticatedlimabean
Gallente
Delinquent Habits
|
Posted - 2009.03.12 22:30:00 -
[293]
Edited by: sophisticatedlimabean on 12/03/2009 22:33:08
Originally by: NightmareX
Yeah, and those 1k DPS from a geddon at 2 km on an omni tanked BS is going to be how much DPS??????.
Take the omni tank into the picture here.
The omni tank effects at any range nublet and against another BS it would still be good as the BS would obviously be tackled and close to if not stationary, as well as that 300+ of the dps is from drones and so would be thermal like the megas ect ect...
The omni tank makes very little realistic difference when you are in BS gang combat anybody who plays on TQ or can read the KillBoards in eve and see what ships are the top dmg dealers in BS gang combat (amarr) knows that.
My views may reflect those of my corp/alliance, but if you wanna know for sure ask em for gods sake. |
Wannabehero
Absolutely No Retreat
|
Posted - 2009.03.12 22:30:00 -
[294]
Blasters by far have too coolest animation now. That must be worth something
--
Don't harsh my mellow |
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.03.12 22:46:00 -
[295]
Edited by: NightmareX on 12/03/2009 22:52:14
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean
Edited by: sophisticatedlimabean on 12/03/2009 22:33:08
Originally by: NightmareX
Yeah, and those 1k DPS from a geddon at 2 km on an omni tanked BS is going to be how much DPS??????.
Take the omni tank into the picture here.
The omni tank effects at any range nublet and against another BS it would still be good as the BS would obviously be tackled and close to if not stationary, as well as that 300+ of the dps is from drones and so would be thermal like the megas ect ect...
The omni tank makes very little realistic difference when you are in BS gang combat anybody who plays on TQ or can read the KillBoards in eve and see what ships are the top dmg dealers in BS gang combat (amarr) knows that.
If you think that the high EM and Thermal resist doesn't have anything to say in a fleet fight, then your dumb. Yes this is for all ranges.
The higher EM and Thermal resist you have, the longer your going to stay alive against ships with Lasers.
Because of the omni tank resists, 5 Megathrons with, lets say, 950 DPS each would pop an Abaddon way faster than 5 Abaddons with 1k DPS would pop a Megathron. This would be at 3-4 KM range.
But yes, if you warp your gang with Laser ships in at 30 km, you will get a head start, or you will get an advantage.
But that's ONLY if you do that. Personally, i haven't seen a gang with mostly Amarr BS'es or other Laser ships that warps in and then lands 30-35 km from the targets many times.
I can count that on both of my hands, so yeah, it's not often that happens.
Gangs today use to just warp right into the target, or just warp into snipe spot if your in a sniper BS.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Blackguard Coalition
|
Posted - 2009.03.12 22:50:00 -
[296]
Originally by: NightmareX
Because of the omni tank resists, 5 Megathrons with, lets say, 950 DPS each would pop an Abaddon way faster than 5 Abaddons with 1k DPS would pop a Megathron.
My gut tells me this is wrong. The Abaddons have more ehp than the megas and will wtfpwn them because of it. Fleet effectiveness is a function of ratio(ehp, dps).
-Liang
--
Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
www.kwikdeath.org |
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.03.12 22:55:00 -
[297]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: NightmareX
Because of the omni tank resists, 5 Megathrons with, lets say, 950 DPS each would pop an Abaddon way faster than 5 Abaddons with 1k DPS would pop a Megathron.
My gut tells me this is wrong. The Abaddons have more ehp than the megas and will wtfpwn them because of it. Fleet effectiveness is a function of ratio(ehp, dps).
-Liang
The EHP bonus on the Abaddons wont help much when the Blaster BS'es takes a bit more DPS than the Abaddons in that situation.
Also when they are in the Blasters optimal range.
Or as i see it, the Blasters takes a bit more DPS than Abaddon do when you take the Omni tanks into the picture, but to counter that so things get more balanced, then Amarr BS'es have more EHP.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
sophisticatedlimabean
Gallente
Delinquent Habits
|
Posted - 2009.03.12 23:00:00 -
[298]
Edited by: sophisticatedlimabean on 12/03/2009 23:05:57
Originally by: NightmareX
If you think that the high EM and Thermal resist doesn't have anything to say in a fleet fight, then your dumb. Yes this is for all ranges.
Its not as big a deal as you are making out cos if it was amarr would not be top dmg dealers so regularly, you just play 1 v 1 on sissi too much cos in gang combat its nothing..
Originally by: NightmareX
But yes, if you warp your gang with Laser ships in at 30 km, you will get a head star, or you will get an advantage.
But that's ONLY if you do that.
Ships move noob, you drop on top of the amarr gang at 2km and they will all burn away firing while the blaster ships need to hug the primary.
So yea the first amarr ship will get melted and maybe the second but after that the megas are playing catch up and need to accelerate after ships at top speed...... and all that time the laser ships are doing 1000+ raw dps chewing up the megas.
Every time you post you show how inexperienced and naive you are about the reality of TQ combat, i have known eft warriors more experienced than you.
My views may reflect those of my corp/alliance, but if you wanna know for sure ask em for gods sake. |
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.03.12 23:05:00 -
[299]
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean
Originally by: NightmareX
If you think that the high EM and Thermal resist doesn't have anything to say in a fleet fight, then your dumb. Yes this is for all ranges.
Its not as big a deal as you are making out cos if it was amarr would not be top dmg dealers so regularly.
Originally by: NightmareX
But yes, if you warp your gang with Laser ships in at 30 km, you will get a head star, or you will get an advantage.
But that's ONLY if you do that.
Ships move noob, you drop on top of the amarr gang at 2km and they will all burn away firing while the blaster ships need to hug the primary.
So yea the first amarr ship will get melted and maybe the second but after that the megas are playing catch up and need to accelerate after ships at top speed...... and all that time the laser ships are doing 1000+ raw dps chewing up the megas.
Every time you post you show how inexperienced and naive you are about the reality of TQ combat, i have known eft warriors more experienced than you.
Uhm, your 1000 DPS is not 1000 DPS because of the Omni tanks. How many times do i have to tell you that?, 4897938 more times?. The tank on the Megas doesn't go down only because they start to MWD after some ships.
Yeah like you did show any more smart ideas by that reply.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
sophisticatedlimabean
Gallente
Delinquent Habits
|
Posted - 2009.03.12 23:09:00 -
[300]
Edited by: sophisticatedlimabean on 12/03/2009 23:15:43
Originally by: NightmareX
Uhm, your 1000 DPS is not 1000 DPS because of the Omni tanks. How many times do i have to tell you that?, 4897938 more times?.
The tank on the Megas doesn't go down only because they start to MWD after some ships.
I said 1000 raw dps fool, you used the raw dps figures in your first post not me.
And i never said the megas tank drops if it MWD's.......its DMG out put drops a crap tonne though noob i figured that was so obvious it did not need to be pointed out, i forgot i was talking to a fool..
Learn to read.
My views may reflect those of my corp/alliance, but if you wanna know for sure ask em for gods sake. |
|
|
Mag's
the united
Negative Ten.
|
Posted - 2009.03.12 23:22:00 -
[301]
Originally by: NightmareX
Originally by: Mag's
Very happy. Comedy gold infact.
Yeah it's pretty comedy gold that this is actually a solution to the noobs with no capacitor skills.
Because they can't use the MWD much before they run out of cap heh.
More happy now?.
Never stop posting, please.
Regards
Mag's |
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.03.12 23:26:00 -
[302]
Edited by: NightmareX on 12/03/2009 23:30:28
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean
Edited by: sophisticatedlimabean on 12/03/2009 23:15:43
Originally by: NightmareX
Uhm, your 1000 DPS is not 1000 DPS because of the Omni tanks. How many times do i have to tell you that?, 4897938 more times?.
The tank on the Megas doesn't go down only because they start to MWD after some ships.
I said 1000 raw dps fool, you used the raw dps figures in your first post not me.
And i never said the megas tank drops if it MWD's.......its DMG out put drops a crap tonne though noob i figured that was so obvious it did not need to be pointed out, i forgot i was talking to a fool..
Learn to read.
Well even when the Megathrons lose some DPS when they have to MWD a little after some ships, they will still last for a long time to Lasers no matter what you say.
I think the Megathrons can last long enough to lasers that they can move alot around before the lasers is going to be any dangerous to them.
Anyways, when my Tempest can tank a 950-1000 DPS Abaddon long enough that i can kill him before i go down, then the DPS from Lasers on an omni tank are so low that lasers is not any dangerous for a while though.
But then, a Tempest have a 20% better resist to EM than a Megathron have. Yes it's 10% from 60 to 70%, but if you calculate that, it will be 20% better overall EM resist.
But still, a TEMPEST, yes a TEMPEST can tank an Abaddon with the setup i use on the ship as long as i have cap. It can even tank that with t1 trimarks and no slaves.
Isn't Tempest supposed to be the crappiest BS ingame lol?.
Originally by: Mag's
Originally by: NightmareX
Originally by: Mag's
Very happy. Comedy gold infact.
Yeah it's pretty comedy gold that this is actually a solution to the noobs with no capacitor skills.
Because they can't use the MWD much before they run out of cap heh.
More happy now?.
Never stop posting, please.
And you should not do that because?.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
sophisticatedlimabean
Gallente
Delinquent Habits
|
Posted - 2009.03.12 23:34:00 -
[303]
Originally by: NightmareX
Worthless 1 v 1 sissi stats
You figures are worthless as they are single 1 vs 1 ship stats.
When your pest can tank 20+ laser BS you may have a point about pvp on TQ but until then you data as usual is worthless (and the game will be broken the day a single standardly fitted battleship on TQ can tank that much incoming dmg).
My views may reflect those of my corp/alliance, but if you wanna know for sure ask em for gods sake. |
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.03.13 00:02:00 -
[304]
Edited by: NightmareX on 13/03/2009 00:06:20
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean
Originally by: NightmareX
Worthless 1 v 1 sissi stats
You figures are worthless as they are single 1 vs 1 ship stats.
When your pest can tank 20+ laser BS you may have a point about pvp on TQ but until then you data as usual is worthless (and the game will be broken the day a single standardly fitted battleship on TQ can tank that much incoming dmg).
Uhm, those stats your thinking on is not what my stats are about.
My stats does not have anything to do with PVP experience. It have with finding out about the ships it self. And fining out how every BS'es works ingame does not automaticly have to do with TQ PVP experience to do.
How many times do i have to tell you that.
And those replies with omgomg your getting some stats from sisi, then so what?. Many of the stats i get from sisi does have 100% to do with many of the things i do on TQ, when i have the time to play and not reply to your uber epic whines all day long.
How many more waaaah waaaah waaaah rabble rabble rabble emo crying whine replies are you gonna make before your happy?.
But nice going there bud, another topic destroyed because of you. It was you that started it all by replying with the same bull**** as you did in the other topics.
How many more topics are you gonna destroy?. 10?, 100?, or maybe 10000?.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Blackguard Coalition
|
Posted - 2009.03.13 00:09:00 -
[305]
Originally by: NightmareX
But nice going there bud, another topic destroyed because of you. It was you that started it all by replying with the same bull**** as you did in the other topics.
How many more topics are you gonna destroy because of your epic noob whines?. 10?, 100?, or maybe 10000?.
You know Nightmare, pretty much everyone in this thread disagrees with you, and you continue to post. I'm not so sure it's him that destroyed the thread. 
(I really do like you btw... I swearz it. But you make it so easy...)
-Liang
--
Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
www.kwikdeath.org |
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.03.13 00:20:00 -
[306]
Edited by: NightmareX on 13/03/2009 00:25:55
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: NightmareX
But nice going there bud, another topic destroyed because of you. It was you that started it all by replying with the same bull**** as you did in the other topics.
How many more topics are you gonna destroy because of your epic noob whines?. 10?, 100?, or maybe 10000?.
You know Nightmare, pretty much everyone in this thread disagrees with you, and you continue to post. I'm not so sure it's him that destroyed the thread.
(I really do like you btw... I swearz it. But you make it so easy...)
-Liang
Heh well, when he cannot answer me some easy questions i have been asking him, then i don't know, but it seems to me that it's him that don't know much about Blasters.
And then he comes with 10000000 other whines and excuses that i have never said or never mentioned. And when i then tell him to shut the **** up, and then ask him again for the answers i asked him about, then he twist on the replies more and more and more to get away from the questions i asked him.
It's not a big suprise that someone in this topic can get very angry and very very confused somethimes when peoples do that.
And by the way he post on, he's taking the topic way off topic. I tried all i could to stay on topic, also about Blasters in my first reply here.
I stared my first reply by telling MY experiences with Blasters on how they works and i also told that i have never had any problems with Blasters simply because i use them 100% right.
And then guess what. His first reply to me was omgomg waaaaaah sisi warrior deluxe and blah blah blah about sisi.
That took the topic from a good topic to a crap topic that went far off topic.
When i give my experience on Blasters, then he should shut up and tell his experiences in using Blasters instrad of whining like and idiot like he have been doing for some pages now.
He have been like this in EVERY topics about Blasters where i have tried to explain something about Blasters. And yes, he's rabbling the same crap over and over and over in every topics.
sophisticatedlimabean haven't even given a detailer explanation on his view on Blasters like i have done many times to now. His replies are boooohooooo, Blasters is crap because they do not do enough damage. That's all he say.
He doesn't even give an explanation in what kind of fight he was in and what kind of ships he have been fighting, where he have been fighting, like at station or gate or whatever.
In short, his reply is: Blasters sucks because they doesn't do good enough damage.
So who's the one that are wrong here?.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
sophisticatedlimabean
Gallente
Delinquent Habits
|
Posted - 2009.03.13 00:22:00 -
[307]
Edited by: sophisticatedlimabean on 13/03/2009 00:25:50
Originally by: NightmareX
Heh well, when he cannot answer me some easy questions i have been asking him, then i don't know, but it seems to me that it's him that don't know much about Blasters.
I answer your questions you just cannot deal with the answers so you pretend i have not......, your pathetic.
Originally by: NightmareX
How many more topics are you gonna destroy because of your epic noob whines?. 10?, 100?, or maybe 10000?.
How many topics are you gonna utterly not understand because your silly statistics and sissi experiences do not translate to TQ pvp.
How many more ppl need to tell you this to get it through your think head?.
How many more threads are you going to troll with your irrelevant drivel that only has any real application on sissi.
My views may reflect those of my corp/alliance, but if you wanna know for sure ask em for gods sake. |
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.03.13 00:24:00 -
[308]
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean
Originally by: NightmareX
How many more topics are you gonna destroy because of your epic noob whines?. 10?, 100?, or maybe 10000?.
How many topics are you gonna utterly not understand because your silly statistics and sissi experiences do not translate to TQ pvp.
How many more ppl need to tell you this to get it through your think head?.
How many more threads are you going to troll with your irrelevant drivel that only has any real application on sissi.
How many times do i have to tell you that those stats i have from sisi is 100% as it is on TQ FOR ME. Those stats helps me with alot of things when it's about PVP on TQ.
So the reason for you epic whine about sisi is?.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
sophisticatedlimabean
Gallente
Delinquent Habits
|
Posted - 2009.03.13 00:29:00 -
[309]
Edited by: sophisticatedlimabean on 13/03/2009 00:32:56
Edited by: sophisticatedlimabean on 13/03/2009 00:31:42
Originally by: NightmareX
How many times do i have to tell you that those stats i have from sisi is 100% as it is on TQ FOR ME. Those stats helps me with alot of things when it's about PVP on TQ.
Hows that working out for you then....
Originally by: NightmareX
I have a Megathron Navy Issue with 7x Neutron II's on TQ FYI.
Here is the setup i use on it atm: LINK.
HHmmm seems rather pricy for a pvp ship tbh, how about telling us about how successful you have been........
Originally by: NightmareX
I just haven't used it in PVP yet.
My views may reflect those of my corp/alliance, but if you wanna know for sure ask em for gods sake. |
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
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Posted - 2009.03.13 00:33:00 -
[310]
Edited by: NightmareX on 13/03/2009 00:35:05
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean
Originally by: NightmareX
Originally by: NightmareX
I just haven't used it in PVP yet.
Ehh, so what?.
The ship is pretty new and i need to fix on some things before i can take it out in PVP anyways.
When the time is there for it to be used and when i have the time, then yeah, just wait on some frapses dude, or a movie if you want it that way.
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean
Originally by: NightmareX
I have a Megathron Navy Issue with 7x Neutron II's on TQ FYI.
Here is the setup i use on it atm: LINK.
HHmmm seems rather pricy for a pvp ship tbh, how about telling us about how successful you have been........
It did cost me 1 bill isk with the ship included. It's not that much.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
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sophisticatedlimabean
Gallente
Delinquent Habits
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Posted - 2009.03.13 00:45:00 -
[311]
Originally by: NightmareX
It did cost me 1 bill isk with the ship included. It's not that much.
You are the biggest tool in eve.
Its a guaranteed primary target in gang combat and if your gonna try it out in smaller gangs there's a lot better ships for that kinda work you can buy and fit with a billion isk.
My views may reflect those of my corp/alliance, but if you wanna know for sure ask em for gods sake. |
Nemain Darru
Gallente
The Python Cartel
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Posted - 2009.03.13 00:49:00 -
[312]
I find it vastly amusing that while blasters can indeed be a terrible terrible choice sometimes, the whiners neglect that this is an MMO.
You want to use a big fat blaster hype? Go right ahead. Just get some friends to lock down whatever it is you want to kill with web/scram/OP-ECM-of-your-choice, then warp to 1km on your tackling buddy and THEN open up a can of nigh-unsurpassed whoopass with those big bad blasters of yours. It's hardly rocket science.
So you want to solo so badly? with blasters? Go plant your ass in a 'ranis and make people in smaller ships (and in some cases, big ones!) very very sad.
Don't want to fly a mean tiny ship solo, then you probably shouldn't go for blasters no. But you don't use a hammer to undo screw either? Pick the right tools for the right job.
EVE is not about what is "best" it's about what is the right choice for a given situation. This is what makes EVE a smart game. If you don't like that, go play WoW and reroll FOTM class for pvp every 6-odd months (currently, I'd say you'd love playing a hunter).
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Rhadamantine
Game Community
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Posted - 2009.03.13 00:52:00 -
[313]
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean
Originally by: NightmareX
It did cost me 1 bill isk with the ship included. It's not that much.
You are the biggest tool in eve.
Its a guaranteed primary target in gang combat and if your gonna try it out in smaller gangs there's a lot better ships for that kinda work you can buy and fit with a billion isk.
Nah, when they do a new mirror on sisi, he'll get it back again.
Regards.
Rhadamantine. |
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
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Posted - 2009.03.13 00:52:00 -
[314]
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean
Originally by: NightmareX
It did cost me 1 bill isk with the ship included. It's not that much.
You are the biggest tool in eve.
Its a guaranteed primary target in gang combat and if your gonna try it out in smaller gangs there's a lot better ships for that kinda work you can buy and fit with a billion isk.
Hahahaha, like a CNR wouldn't be any less primary than me. Every faction ships is more like primary anyways.
And no, for my PVP style, a Megathron or a Tempest is definly the best ships for me. No matter how much DPS or EHP another ship have.
OMG, i'm going to be primary in that ship, waaha help. Isn't the point that you should be shoot in PVP lol?.
If i'm in a med size gang with RR, then i'm absolutely gonna have fun in my Navy mega.
Just remember, i use the ships that are FUN to use, i don't go after the ships that have better ganges or better speed or whatever. As long i can have lots of fun in the ships i'm using, then i don't care about anything else.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
sophisticatedlimabean
Gallente
Delinquent Habits
|
Posted - 2009.03.13 01:03:00 -
[315]
Originally by: Nemain Darru
EVE is not about what is "best" it's about what is the right choice for a given situation. This is what makes EVE a smart game. If you don't like that, go play WoW and reroll FOTM class for pvp every 6-odd months (currently, I'd say you'd love playing a hunter).
No you are partly right but you missed 50% of the equation.
Eve is partly about the right choice for the right situation, and partly about the availability of situations per class/race/ship. And the availability of options/situations for blaster ships to shine especially is tiny to the point of insignificance.
You yourself say that if you wanna go for a mean tiny ship solo then you should not fly blasters and you also say blaster BS should have friends with it so it can warpin to do its "unsurpassed" dps....well the news is that the unsurpassed dps gap blasters have is very small compared to the other races.
And needing a gang to gank a single ship is not what i would call a stella recommendation for what is supposed to be a monster dmg dealer.
My views may reflect those of my corp/alliance, but if you wanna know for sure ask em for gods sake. |
sophisticatedlimabean
Gallente
Delinquent Habits
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Posted - 2009.03.13 01:08:00 -
[316]
Edited by: sophisticatedlimabean on 13/03/2009 01:08:51
Originally by: NightmareX
If i'm in a med size gang with RR, then i'm absolutely gonna have fun in my Navy mega.
Just remember, i use the ships that are FUN to use, i don't go after the ships that have better ganges or better speed or whatever. As long i can have lots of fun in the ships i'm using, then i don't care about anything else.
You get into a standard med sized gang vs a med sized gang BS fight in that navy mega and you aint gonna have time to enjoy it.
My views may reflect those of my corp/alliance, but if you wanna know for sure ask em for gods sake. |
Nemain Darru
Gallente
The Python Cartel
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Posted - 2009.03.13 02:27:00 -
[317]
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean
No you are partly right but you missed 50% of the equation.
Eve is partly about the right choice for the right situation, and partly about the availability of situations per class/race/ship. And the availability of options/situations for blaster ships to shine especially is tiny to the point of insignificance.
You yourself say that if you wanna go for a mean tiny ship solo then you should not fly blasters and you also say blaster BS should have friends with it so it can warpin to do its "unsurpassed" dps....well the news is that the unsurpassed dps gap blasters have is very small compared to the other races.
And needing a gang to gank a single ship is not what i would call a stella recommendation for what is supposed to be a monster dmg dealer.
Oh don't get me wrong, I know this... I fly gallente, and you're probably somewhat right in that yes, for the crummy range on blasters (and the disadvantages that brings, in conjunction with the fittings needed to get there unless you're clever and have a buddy) the damage is not remarkable enough to make you go "wow!"
But honestly, did you think the pre-nerf Eos solo-pwn-mobile (of DOOOOM) was fair? Do you think that the damage should be so much superior that a Gallente BS will melt any other BS provided it gets in the proper range to do so?
That second scenario is the important part of this equation, allow me to elaborate, using the assumption that blasters get a significant boost:
This would, at first glance, seem very fair:
-A long ranged Amarr BS will destroy a Gallente blaster BS if it is trying to close distance, coming in from too far away due to not using correct tactics to engage at a "survivable" range
-Likewise, the Amarr BS will lose if it (or the Gallente BS) engages at a range which will allow the Gallente to bring it's guns to bear at optimal, and will overwhelm even the sturdiest tank with it's massive damage.
This seems fair enough, tactics and good piloting are the deciding factor in the above examples.
The truth however, is that this is a multiplayer game. And when other ships are thrown in the equation everything changes very drastically.
In reality, the result will be that a Blaster boat is the defacto DPS choice for any small group engagement. Why? because it only takes one (possibly suicidal) buddy in a speed-tanked frig, or a leeching setup tanky frig to pin said Amarr BS down, the big bad blaster boat can then warp in and gib the amarr BS, without fear of retaliation really, and very likely before you could kill any smart tackler with drones or whatnot.
Weapons ranges are largely moot when multiple ships become involved, the side with smarter tactics and a more versatile group setup can, and will always, determine engagement range
With range effectively taken out of the equation in (small) group situations, you can see that the only thing remaining that matters is raw damage output, and blasters are already pretty decent there boosting them too high will render all other choices much less desirable.
And then we'd be back where we were a few years back, and everyone will be toting nasty blaster megas (and indeed, many still do)
Thus we come to the final conclusion.
Are blaster ships bad? No, not at all. Are they a poor(er) choice for certain types of engagement (or indeed activity)? Absolutely.
TL;DR:
This is why you can train for all ships and all weapons in this game. You want to nail something down, use a hammer. You want to unscrew, use the GODDAMNED screwdriver.
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vostok
Minmatar
Shadow of xXDEATHXx
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Posted - 2009.03.13 02:44:00 -
[318]
Originally by: NightmareX
Edited by: NightmareX on 12/03/2009 23:30:28
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean
Edited by: sophisticatedlimabean on 12/03/2009 23:15:43
Originally by: NightmareX
Uhm, your 1000 DPS is not 1000 DPS because of the Omni tanks. How many times do i have to tell you that?, 4897938 more times?.
The tank on the Megas doesn't go down only because they start to MWD after some ships.
I said 1000 raw dps fool, you used the raw dps figures in your first post not me.
And i never said the megas tank drops if it MWD's.......its DMG out put drops a crap tonne though noob i figured that was so obvious it did not need to be pointed out, i forgot i was talking to a fool..
Learn to read.
Well even when the Megathrons lose some DPS when they have to MWD a little after some ships, they will still last for a long time to Lasers no matter what you say.
I think the Megathrons can last long enough to lasers that they can move alot around before the lasers is going to be any dangerous to them.
Anyways, when my Tempest can tank a 950-1000 DPS Abaddon long enough that i can kill him before i go down, then the DPS from Lasers on an omni tank are so low that lasers is not any dangerous for a while though.
But then, a Tempest have a 20% better resist to EM than a Megathron have. Yes it's 10% from 60 to 70%, but if you calculate that, it will be 20% better overall EM resist.
But still, a TEMPEST, yes a TEMPEST can tank an Abaddon with the setup i use on the ship as long as i have cap. It can even tank that with t1 trimarks and no slaves.
Isn't Tempest supposed to be the crappiest BS ingame lol?.
OMG, please now, why are you still posting...
Lets go through this minefield of fail:
Firstly, please stop thinking of any pvp as 1 vs 1, this is so rare it might as well not exist. Even more rare than this is 1 BS vs 1 BS unless people are dueling.
Your first 2 sentences were quite hard to read but my general answer is no, megathrons do not lose a little dps, they do not have to mwd a little, they have to mwd loads to stay in range, they lose loads of DPS doing this and often have serious cap issues fighting for more than a few minutes because their boosters run out.
To your talk about megathrons surviving lasers, its not about surviving in a duel situation, its about maintaining reasonable dps throughout a fight while having a large enough buffer to play at being survivable, during which time all the members in the gang will cycle through multiple targets which are pretty damned likely to be more than 10km away from the megathron, not to mention if they aren't stupid they will move away from the megathron.
Amarr ships don't have this problem because they can switch ammo types in split seconds, AND scorch ammo deals the same comparative dps to multifrequency as Null does to antimatter while increasing the % range of the guns by over double what Nul does when lasers have the longer range in the first place! Oh, AND amarr ships generally have better buffers than gallente ships anyway because of their thick armour and racial resistance lowering their explosive hole.
Oh this end bit is so sisi-tasticly priceless. When your LOL-active tanked tempest can tank 1 abaddon, the rest of the ships in the abaddon's gang then BBQ you because unlike sisi on TQ you don't fight single BS vs single BS.
And no I didn't see the start of this and you will probably tell me it was about duelling, but if it was, then all of your comments were worthless anyway and they shouldn't have been posted here because they add nothing to ****ing thread!
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Traderboz
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Posted - 2009.03.13 03:00:00 -
[319]
This reminds me of the minmatar/projectile thread so much, except here there's more lawl, a bit more SiSi and not enough Siddy. Still, 2/3 ain't bad.
/sits back down with popcorn
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Nemain Darru
Gallente
The Python Cartel
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Posted - 2009.03.13 03:01:00 -
[320]
After a brief moment of consideration, I think i'd much rather see railguns get a little love on the damage front than blasters...
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vostok
Minmatar
Shadow of xXDEATHXx
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Posted - 2009.03.13 03:27:00 -
[321]
Originally by: Nemain Darru
That second scenario is the important part of this equation, allow me to elaborate, using the assumption that blasters get a significant boost:
This would, at first glance, seem very fair:
-A long ranged Amarr BS will destroy a Gallente blaster BS if it is trying to close distance, coming in from too far away due to not using correct tactics to engage at a "survivable" range
-Likewise, the Amarr BS will lose if it (or the Gallente BS) engages at a range which will allow the Gallente to bring it's guns to bear at optimal, and will overwhelm even the sturdiest tank with it's massive damage.
This seems fair enough, tactics and good piloting are the deciding factor in the above examples.
The truth however, is that this is a multiplayer game. And when other ships are thrown in the equation everything changes very drastically.
In reality, the result will be that a Blaster boat is the defacto DPS choice for any small group engagement. Why? because it only takes one (possibly suicidal) buddy in a speed-tanked frig, or a leeching setup tanky frig to pin said Amarr BS down, the big bad blaster boat can then warp in and gib the amarr BS, without fear of retaliation really, and very likely before you could kill any smart tackler with drones or whatnot.
Weapons ranges are largely moot when multiple ships become involved, the side with smarter tactics and a more versatile group setup can, and will always, determine engagement range
With range effectively taken out of the equation in (small) group situations, you can see that the only thing remaining that matters is raw damage output, and blasters are already pretty decent there boosting them too high will render all other choices much less desirable.
And then we'd be back where we were a few years back, and everyone will be toting nasty blaster megas (and indeed, many still do)
Thus we come to the final conclusion.
Are blaster ships bad? No, not at all. Are they a poor(er) choice for certain types of engagement (or indeed activity)? Absolutely.
TL;DR:
This is why you can train for all ships and all weapons in this game. You want to nail something down, use a hammer. You want to unscrew, use the GODDAMNED screwdriver.
Your case is fairly good, however, the issue still stands that while if you take extra care to engage on your own terms and pick the engagement range, which, lets face it, isn't always an option, the arma, apoc, abaddon, raven and to an extent even the rokh all have no real need to dictate range. They can all hit at 30km with short range weapons and all but the rokh can switch ammo to take their range out towards the 40 to 60km mark. This basically means that in a combat situation, most ranges these ships may have dictated against them they can fight back on reasonable terms. The exception obviously being hitting a bubble and meeting a lump of snipers a long way off.
You have to understand, that from where I'm sitting gallente and minmatar battleships are much less useful in most situations than amarr and caldari are. In fact at the moment as a general rule of thumb amarr and caldari are superior in almost every class of ship than gallente or minmatar.
fleet snipers -> apoc/rokh
gang dps -> baddon/raven, maybe a phoon, don't know the ship too well
PVE -> raven/apoc
EWAR -> scorp/domi? not sure how it would fare now all non bonused ew has been nerfed to the ground
Spider tanking -> domi is clearly above the rest, thats about it really....
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Koloch
Amarr
Warriors Lost
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Posted - 2009.03.13 04:29:00 -
[322]
Originally by: vostok
You have to understand, that from where I'm sitting gallente and minmatar battleships are much less useful in most situations than amarr and caldari are. In fact at the moment as a general rule of thumb amarr and caldari are superior in almost every class of ship than gallente or minmatar.
fleet snipers -> apoc/rokh
gang dps -> baddon/raven, maybe a phoon, don't know the ship too well
PVE -> raven/apoc
EWAR -> scorp/domi? not sure how it would fare now all non bonused ew has been nerfed to the ground
Spider tanking -> domi is clearly above the rest, thats about it really....
I agree to some extent, but really;
fleet sniper > apoc/rokh/mega - mega with rails is a solid fleet ship.
pve > raven. not really apoc do to it's limited dmg type. domi is an amazing PVE ship. No need for ammo and the ability to pick dmg type and lets not forget an insane tank. Seriously try and take down an angel BS in an apoc and time it.
RR gangs > agreed domi is the king
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vostok
Minmatar
Shadow of xXDEATHXx
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Posted - 2009.03.13 05:52:00 -
[323]
Originally by: Koloch
I agree to some extent, but really;
fleet sniper > apoc/rokh/mega - mega with rails is a solid fleet ship.
pve > raven. not really apoc do to it's limited dmg type. domi is an amazing PVE ship. No need for ammo and the ability to pick dmg type and lets not forget an insane tank. Seriously try and take down an angel BS in an apoc and time it.
RR gangs > agreed domi is the king
Apoc is one of the fastest T1 battleships for mission running. The damage type is a negative for it but running amarr missions most stuff is weak to EM damage, you rarely come across angels. The result is a good apoc pilot comes out just ahead of a raven pilot.
As far as the domi goes for missions its a solid ship but just not in the same league imo, same with the mega as a fleet sniper, it does the job, but trying to get that DD tanked is a lot harder than the apoc or rokh. Both of those ships can shoot at 200km with an omni tank capable of taking any DD. Hell the rokh can take it in the shields using 425mm rails while having 3 damage mods.
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Koloch
Amarr
Warriors Lost
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Posted - 2009.03.13 06:28:00 -
[324]
Originally by: vostok
Originally by: Koloch
I agree to some extent, but really;
fleet sniper > apoc/rokh/mega - mega with rails is a solid fleet ship.
pve > raven. not really apoc do to it's limited dmg type. domi is an amazing PVE ship. No need for ammo and the ability to pick dmg type and lets not forget an insane tank. Seriously try and take down an angel BS in an apoc and time it.
RR gangs > agreed domi is the king
Apoc is one of the fastest T1 battleships for mission running. The damage type is a negative for it but running amarr missions most stuff is weak to EM damage, you rarely come across angels. The result is a good apoc pilot comes out just ahead of a raven pilot.
As far as the domi goes for missions its a solid ship but just not in the same league imo, same with the mega as a fleet sniper, it does the job, but trying to get that DD tanked is a lot harder than the apoc or rokh. Both of those ships can shoot at 200km with an omni tank capable of taking any DD. Hell the rokh can take it in the shields using 425mm rails while having 3 damage mods.
I think we'll just have to agree to disagree on that one.
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Dracoknight
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Posted - 2009.03.13 08:06:00 -
[325]
For all you noobs who read this: go missiles...
But i must say its quite funny to see that people here discuss so heavily on stuff it almost seems like the CCP havent written the stats well enough...
Well anyway, i dont see the point in comparing a T1 cruiser to a T2 battleship in some cases here...
Perhaps i write that Frigates sucks because they cant solo a Titan.. ?
Rawr! |
Ig Neus
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Posted - 2009.03.13 08:23:00 -
[326]
This thread gets boring, especially with people on both sides arguing like if they were 9 years old.
You are not talking about Blasters here, you are talking about Gallente Battleships vs other ones and the range they can hit at.
Since it came to that, Dominix is great for many things but not a Gunship and Megathron is an ok Sniper (not Apoc or Rokh level) and a monster for close range fights. And no matter what you people say, there are many times when I find all enemy targets to be within 5-6kms of me.
I understand you people may roam on Battleships (not that I know why you do that, unless we are talking about a huge fleet where close range weapons do not apply anyway) but for camping a Station or a Gate, Blasterthron is still the king.
The real problem that Gallente face, as I said some pages above, is that they lack a decent Tier 3 Battleship to put their Blasters on. Even if Hyperion gets buffed, it has a repairing bonus which is only good for small gangs and even then it is better to simple have some logistic or (if you fight at stations) Remote Repping Dominixes/Geddons.
P.S. : Since someone spoke about it, if we stick to T1 Battleships for missioning, Dominix > Raven > anything else. Dual Repped Domi can tank anything, can control damage type, has no problem killing smaller things and is easier to fit...
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sophisticatedlimabean
Gallente
Delinquent Habits
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Posted - 2009.03.13 10:54:00 -
[327]
Originally by: Nemain Darru
This would, at first glance, seem very fair:
-A long ranged Amarr BS will destroy a Gallente blaster BS if it is trying to close distance, coming in from too far away due to not using correct tactics to engage at a "survivable" range
-Likewise, the Amarr BS will lose if it (or the Gallente BS) engages at a range which will allow the Gallente to bring it's guns to bear at optimal, and will overwhelm even the sturdiest tank with it's massive damage.
This seems fair enough, tactics and good piloting are the deciding factor in the above examples.
The truth however, is that this is a multiplayer game. And when other ships are thrown in the equation everything changes very drastically.
In reality, the result will be that a Blaster boat is the defacto DPS choice for any small group engagement. Why? because it only takes one (possibly suicidal) buddy in a speed-tanked frig, or a leeching setup tanky frig to pin said Amarr BS down, the big bad blaster boat can then warp in and gib the amarr BS, without fear of retaliation really, and very likely before you could kill any smart tackler with drones or whatnot.
You are wrong because you are trying to translate 1 v 1 statistics into gang combat and you are forgetting or ignoring way to many variables.
1. The gang of laser ships will be firing back and doing at least 70% of the dmg blasters are getting vs a standard omni tank, meaning that blaster ships are dying as well. And while at the start of the fight the blaster ships have a 30% advantage in dmg the amarr ships have extra HP so id still give it to the blaster ships initially but not by a HUGE margin.
2. As the fight goes on the laser ships will obviously burn away while still doing the same dps but the blaster ships will need to chase down and stay close to every ship they primary just to keep that small DPS advantage.
3. And as the fight continues the blaster ships will need to burn farther and farther just to get into optimal and as such will spend most of the time doing a lot less dps than the lasers who now have dps and HP advantage.
4. Towards the end of the fight the laser ships are now totally dominating the field and chewing up the blaster ships with hardly a loss due to range constraints.
So even in a fight that starts with all ships at blaster optimal lasers do great and at the very least inflict heavy dmg on the blaster gang if not win the fight out right.
Now reverse the situation and start the fight at 25km......the laser ships hardly take a loss.
And that is the problem...., worst case scenario for blasters in gang combat they lose the fight and hardly get a kill against the winners, best case scenario for blasters they beat the opposing fleet with heavy losses.
My views may reflect those of my corp/alliance, but if you wanna know for sure ask em for gods sake. |
Theron Gyrow
Gradient
Electus Matari
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Posted - 2009.03.13 11:12:00 -
[328]
Originally by: Ig Neus
for camping a Station or a Gate, Blasterthron is still the king.
Station camps, I agree. But gate camps? No way, pulse laser ships are better in all cases.
--
Gradient forum |
Ig Neus
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Posted - 2009.03.13 11:15:00 -
[329]
Quote:
The gang of laser ships will be firing back and doing at least 70% of the dmg blasters are getting vs a standard omni tank, meaning that blaster ships are dying as well. And while at the start of the fight the blaster ships have a 30% advantage in dmg the amarr ships have extra HP so id still give it to the blaster ships initially but not by a HUGE margin.
You kinda missed the detail of Neutrons II on a Mega having 0.074 tracking with Navy Antimatter while Mega Pulse II on an Abaddon have 0.042 with Navy Multifrequency. One would think that this should influence the damage output in close distances (higher Transversal) a lot. No?
Also you miss the important part of how fights go. If we are talking about 10 man gangs, killing 1-2 enemy ships before you have to start running arround means that the total DPS they can put gets greatly reduced (especially if 2 are tacklers/E-War and 2 are logistics), meaning that after 2 Battleships die there are 4 more to deal damage which will be much easier to deal with for the RRs.
Not to mention that, provided you start at point blank range, Amarr BS cannot outrun Gallente ones.
And seriously, why should Gallente Battleships even start a battle without being in point blank range? Battleships are slow ships, generally great for big fleets (short range weapons of any kind are useless there) or for camping things. Even if for some reason you take a small gang of them out roaming, I hope you will use Cloaked ships / Tacklers and warp to 0 of targets...
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Tzar'rim
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Posted - 2009.03.13 11:18:00 -
[330]
Whinabean isn't very good at discussions, he thinks he is because in his mind he is "winning" but in reality he is not. People give up on having any decent discussion with him because it always ends in him screaming all kinds of crap while not being realistic.
This is not just on the EVE-forums either, but also in corp/alliance. Just don't bother.
Self-proclaimed idiot
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sophisticatedlimabean
Gallente
Delinquent Habits
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Posted - 2009.03.13 11:23:00 -
[331]
Originally by: Tzar'rim
0 content only more troll....
Go away fool.
My views may reflect those of my corp/alliance, but if you wanna know for sure ask em for gods sake. |
Koloch
Amarr
Warriors Lost
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Posted - 2009.03.13 11:32:00 -
[332]
why do people continue to compare the megathron with the abaddon and then make blanket statements that Amarr are overpowered.
There's no way in hell you'll be fitting a mwd, a full rack of mega pulses, and have amazing EHP on a geddon, and the apocs dmg is certainly not 70% of a mega's after the omni tank.
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sophisticatedlimabean
Gallente
Delinquent Habits
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Posted - 2009.03.13 11:39:00 -
[333]
Originally by: Ig Neus
You kinda missed the detail of Neutrons II on a Mega having 0.074 tracking with Navy Antimatter while Mega Pulse II on an Abaddon have 0.042 with Navy Multifrequency. One would think that this should influence the damage output in close distances (higher Transversal) a lot. No?
Erm no.. the tracking issues between pulse and blasters is not a issue in gang combat due to the size and available transversal speeds of BS, multiple webs and relative positions.
Originally by: Ig Neus
Not to mention that, provided you start at point blank range, Amarr BS cannot outrun Gallente ones.
The gallente BS need to stay close to the primary the laser ships do not, we are not running the 100 yard sprint or you would have a point.
Originally by: Ig Neus
And seriously, why should Gallente Battleships even start a battle without being in point blank range?
What makes you think they always have the choice?, gallente BS do not have the ability to always be in their optimal at the start of a fight and always get the initiative?.
You go on about using scouts and dropping on top of a hostile gang and it all sounds great until you realize that it totally relies on the opposing gang sitting still and ALLOWING a gang to be dropped on it and that is not a regular event in eve.
Why do you think that ppl preach about gallente ships being "best" at station camping???, its because they know what range a ship undocking is guaranteed to be at as it does. But even then they are wrong as laser ships can do just as well as blasters in that situation but can do it at a range where they will less dmg as the undocking blasters ships in the opposing gang will not be able to hit them and they only need worry about the ships with more range.
My views may reflect those of my corp/alliance, but if you wanna know for sure ask em for gods sake. |
sophisticatedlimabean
Gallente
Delinquent Habits
|
Posted - 2009.03.13 11:42:00 -
[334]
Edited by: sophisticatedlimabean on 13/03/2009 11:46:26
Originally by: Koloch
why do people continue to compare the megathron with the abaddon and then make blanket statements that Amarr are overpowered.
There's no way in hell you'll be fitting a mwd, a full rack of mega pulses, and have amazing EHP on a geddon, and the apocs dmg is certainly not 70% of a mega's after the omni tank.
Because its a option ppl have if they are amarr spec'd, if gallente had a ammo that did a lot more dmg and range than antimatter with no downsides would you accept the answer "yea but AM is not as good"....
Are saying that if the baddon did not exist things between gallente and amarr would be more balanced?.
Interesting perspective.
My views may reflect those of my corp/alliance, but if you wanna know for sure ask em for gods sake. |
Ig Neus
|
Posted - 2009.03.13 11:48:00 -
[335]
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean
So you are saying that if the baddon did not exist things between gallente and amarr would be more balanced?.
Interesting perspective.
I have said the same thing in another way. If Hyperion was actually a useful ship with 8 turrets, more low slots (7 for 2 LAR, 2 resistance mods and 3 MFS) and the Grid required to fit 8 Neutrons II, MWD, 2 X Heavy Cap Boosters, 2 LARs and a 125m3 Drone Bay things would be different.
Currently we have to Compare the damage of 8 Pulses with 7 Blasters while the only Gallente Battleship that is able of fitting 8 Blasters is a joke. A bit stupid, isn't it?
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Koloch
Amarr
Warriors Lost
|
Posted - 2009.03.13 12:29:00 -
[336]
Edited by: Koloch on 13/03/2009 12:29:32
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean
Because its a option ppl have if they are amarr spec'd, if gallente had a ammo that did a lot more dmg and range than antimatter with no downsides would you accept the answer "yea but AM is not as good"....
Are saying that if the baddon did not exist things between gallente and amarr would be more balanced?.
Interesting perspective.
Is it?
You're putting the entire fleet of one race under the label of overpowered because of the Abaddon?
|
sophisticatedlimabean
Gallente
Delinquent Habits
|
Posted - 2009.03.13 12:44:00 -
[337]
Originally by: Koloch
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean
Because its a option ppl have if they are amarr spec'd, if gallente had a ammo that did a lot more dmg and range than antimatter with no downsides would you accept the answer "yea but AM is not as good"....
Are saying that if the baddon did not exist things between gallente and amarr would be more balanced?.
Interesting perspective.
Is it?
You're putting the entire fleet of one race under the label of overpowered because of the Abaddon?
No im not this thread is about a blaster problem, pulse lasers (among other systems) are just being used as reference material in comparative and realistic situations on TQ.
I feel it shows blasters are underpowered and lack available scenarios on TQ where they are effective, but you seem to think it shows lasers as overpowered...
So i say again..interesting perspective.
My views may reflect those of my corp/alliance, but if you wanna know for sure ask em for gods sake. |
Anira
Minmatar
Chrysohelios
|
Posted - 2009.03.13 13:32:00 -
[338]
Edited by: Anira on 13/03/2009 13:34:38
Gangs have become more common and important.
Back in the glory days of blasters, soloing was more common.
Pulse ships tend to make good gang ships. Blaster ships tend to make better solo ships.
It's reductive to see this only as a blasters vs pulse lasers argument.
|
Koloch
Amarr
Warriors Lost
|
Posted - 2009.03.13 14:12:00 -
[339]
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean
I feel it shows blasters are underpowered and lack available scenarios on TQ where they are effective, but you seem to think it shows lasers as overpowered...
So i say again..interesting perspective.
I never said, nor will I every say that lasers are overpowered...because they aren't.
|
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.03.13 14:27:00 -
[340]
Edited by: NightmareX on 13/03/2009 14:45:50
Originally by: Tzar'rim
Whinabean isn't very good at discussions, he thinks he is because in his mind he is "winning" but in reality he is not. People give up on having any decent discussion with him because it always ends in him screaming all kinds of crap while not being realistic.
This is not just on the EVE-forums either, but also in corp/alliance. Just don't bother.
Yah.
I might not be right on everything here, yes i admit it. But therer is absolutely no points to discuss anything with Whinabean like we call him, because if we don't agree with him, then no, we are an idiot and whiner and we are totally wrong.
What i have seen in those topics with him is that if you agree with him that Lasers or Amarr BS'es are the bestest because EFT say it, then yeah, everything is fine.
But if someone comes with some counter arguments to that, then you are either an idiot or a whiner, or a sisi warrior like he says i'am.
I don't really care if i get my stats and results from Sisi as long they works very good on TQ for me.
But that Whinabean doesn't get that. He only goes on omgomg whiner whiner, Lasers and Amarr ships is the bestest anyways because they have the best range and a little more EHP than other ships.
PVP is about alot more than just DPS, range, EHP and that. And still, Whinabean doesn't get that. He thinks the EFT numbers are everything.
Oh and yeah. Smart players are always better than any other ships you are fighting whatever ship you are in.
I have also given my explanation on why Blasters are perfectly fine for me, i have done that multiple times to. Only because Whinabean fail to use the Blasters right at the right times, it doesn't mean they sucks.
If i can do the same as Whinabean does, then i can say, omgomgwtf, i used Lasers and they did really sucks because i couldn't hit anything when a target was close to me baaaawwwwwww. Yes i can say that Amarr BS'es or Lasers sucks there for me and then think crap those really must sucks in EVE, but it doesn't mean they do it in EVE only because i failed hard to use the ship and weapons right.
But like Whinabean, he just say waah waah, my reason is because Lasers have omguber 1k DPS and they have uberpwn range, then they must be best blah blah etc.......
He doesn't even give a full explanation like i have done. He just goes on with his rabble rabble rabble. He just say they are best without giving any reason on what he was fighting, what setup he have been using, what kind of enemies he was fighting, how big the gangs was etc.
So there is not a big suprise that no one want to believe him.
Yeah you get it i hope.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
|
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RedSplat
Heretic Army
|
Posted - 2009.03.13 14:31:00 -
[341]
Well, you could fit AC's.
[i]
Ransom List Project: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=999677&page=1 |
sophisticatedlimabean
Gallente
Delinquent Habits
|
Posted - 2009.03.13 14:51:00 -
[342]
Edited by: sophisticatedlimabean on 13/03/2009 14:51:56
Originally by: NightmareX
Yet another long winded AD HOM TROLL with 0 content
Go away or add content relevant to TQ.
My views may reflect those of my corp/alliance, but if you wanna know for sure ask em for gods sake. |
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.03.13 14:56:00 -
[343]
Edited by: NightmareX on 13/03/2009 15:35:33
Bleh |
sophisticatedlimabean
Gallente
Delinquent Habits
|
Posted - 2009.03.13 15:01:00 -
[344]
Edited by: sophisticatedlimabean on 13/03/2009 15:09:14
Originally by: NightmareX
And yet more troll
You have made no arguments, you just make pathetic and juvenile comments like those above, you should be banned.
My views may reflect those of my corp/alliance, but if you wanna know for sure ask em for gods sake. |
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.03.13 15:35:00 -
[345]
Edited by: NightmareX on 13/03/2009 15:47:55
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean
Edited by: sophisticatedlimabean on 13/03/2009 15:09:14
Originally by: NightmareX
And yet more troll
You have made no arguments, you just make pathetic and juvenile comments like those above, you should be banned.
Don't talk about who that need to be banned.
Because if there is someone that neef to be banned, it's you. Because the only thing you can do is to say something and then claim it is how it is without giving a detailed explanation like i have done. And then call others for whiners etc etc when you see that WE give you a counter argument and a detailed explanation on how Blasters works and then tell you that Blasters works fine, as long you use them right.
Then you goes on with the epic rabble and tell us that Blasters is crap anyways yada yadda yadda and that Blasters have such poor range etc yeah yeah yeah.
But still we have given you the reasons and explanation many times here that Blasters works fine. But you just ignore it and goes on with your FOTM crap rabble things all day long.
Care to give us a detailed explanation on how things works for you instead of whining without giving any reasons?.
When i say detailed explanation, then i mean what kind of ship did you use, what kind of setup did you use, where was the fight at, how big was each gangs, what kind of ships was in both of the gangs, what range was the fight at etc.
Anyways, call Blasters whatever you want Whinabean. But for me and many other that use Blasters 100% right, then Blasters is totally fine. And i have never had problems with Blaster either. So, for me Blasters is fine whatever other says.
In fact, there is way more problems with Autocannons than it is with Blasters if you see it that way. But still, i use them because it's fun.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
sophisticatedlimabean
Gallente
Delinquent Habits
|
Posted - 2009.03.13 15:47:00 -
[346]
Edited by: sophisticatedlimabean on 13/03/2009 15:49:53
Originally by: NightmareX
But for me and many other that use Blasters 100% right, then Blasters is totally fine. And i have never had problems with Blaster either.
LIAR.....
Originally by: NightmareX
I have a Megathron Navy Issue with 7x Neutron II's on TQ FYI.
Here is the setup i use on it atm: LINK.
Originally by: NightmareX
I just haven't used it in PVP yet.
So you have no problems with them but you have not used them....
You are all mouth and no actual experience and you even admit it so STFU and stop lying about knowing things until you have logged into TQ and fully tried them.....Mr nightmareNOXP.
My views may reflect those of my corp/alliance, but if you wanna know for sure ask em for gods sake. |
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.03.13 15:49:00 -
[347]
Edited by: NightmareX on 13/03/2009 15:51:34
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean
Originally by: NightmareX
But for me and many other that use Blasters 100% right, then Blasters is totally fine. And i have never had problems with Blaster either.
LIAR.....
Originally by: NightmareX
I have a Megathron Navy Issue with 7x Neutron II's on TQ FYI.
Here is the setup i use on it atm: LINK.
Originally by: NightmareX
I just haven't used it in PVP yet.
You are all mouth and no actual experience and you even admit it so STFU and stop lying about knowing things until you have logged into TQ and fully tried them..
Nice way of quoting me on that the 2nd time.
Oh god, i haven't used my Navy Mega in PVP yet. OMG the Navy Mega is the only Gallente BS ship in EVE, yeah.
Don't you have other things to quote than quoting the same thing over and over?.
Memory problems?.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
sophisticatedlimabean
Gallente
Delinquent Habits
|
Posted - 2009.03.13 15:51:00 -
[348]
Edited by: sophisticatedlimabean on 13/03/2009 15:51:02
Originally by: NightmareNOXP
i just owned myself and look a total tool...
YUP....
My views may reflect those of my corp/alliance, but if you wanna know for sure ask em for gods sake. |
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.03.13 15:52:00 -
[349]
Edited by: NightmareX on 13/03/2009 15:55:13
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean
Edited by: sophisticatedlimabean on 13/03/2009 15:51:02
Originally by: NightmareX
i just owned Whinabean and made Whinabean look like a fool...
YUP....
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
sophisticatedlimabean
Gallente
Delinquent Habits
|
Posted - 2009.03.13 15:54:00 -
[350]
Edited by: sophisticatedlimabean on 13/03/2009 15:54:03
Originally by: NightmareNOXP
troll
My views may reflect those of my corp/alliance, but if you wanna know for sure ask em for gods sake. |
|
|
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.03.13 15:54:00 -
[351]
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean
Edited by: sophisticatedlimabean on 13/03/2009 15:54:03
Originally by: NightmareNOXP
troll
Says who?.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
sophisticatedlimabean
Gallente
Delinquent Habits
|
Posted - 2009.03.13 15:55:00 -
[352]
Originally by: NightmareNOXP
But for me and many other that use Blasters 100% right, then Blasters is totally fine. And i have never had problems with Blaster either.
LIAR.....
Originally by: NightmareNOXP
I have a Megathron Navy Issue with 7x Neutron II's on TQ FYI.
Here is the setup i use on it atm: LINK.
Originally by: NightmareNOXP
I just haven't used it in PVP yet.
So you have no problems with them but you have not used them....
You are all mouth and no actual experience and you even admit it so STFU and stop lying about knowing things until you have logged into TQ and fully tried them.....Mr nightmareNOXP.
My views may reflect those of my corp/alliance, but if you wanna know for sure ask em for gods sake. |
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.03.13 15:56:00 -
[353]
Edited by: NightmareX on 13/03/2009 15:57:12
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean
Originally by: NightmareNOXP
But for me and many other that use Blasters 100% right, then Blasters is totally fine. And i have never had problems with Blaster either.
LIAR.....
Originally by: NightmareNOXP
I have a Megathron Navy Issue with 7x Neutron II's on TQ FYI.
Here is the setup i use on it atm: LINK.
Originally by: NightmareNOXP
I just haven't used it in PVP yet.
So you have no problems with them but you have not used them....
You are all mouth and no actual experience and you even admit it so STFU and stop lying about knowing things until you have logged into TQ and fully tried them.....Mr nightmareNOXP.
SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM
Don't you have other things to do than just spamming this topic with things you already have said?.
Nice way of quoting me on that the 3rd time.
Oh god, i haven't used my Navy Mega in PVP yet. OMG the Navy Mega is the only Gallente BS ship in EVE, yeah.
Don't you have other things to quote than quoting the same thing over and over?.
Memory problems?.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
sophisticatedlimabean
Gallente
Delinquent Habits
|
Posted - 2009.03.13 15:57:00 -
[354]
Originally by: NightmareNOXP
But for me and many other that use Blasters 100% right, then Blasters is totally fine. And i have never had problems with Blaster either.
LIAR.....
Originally by: NightmareNOXP
I have a Megathron Navy Issue with 7x Neutron II's on TQ FYI.
Here is the setup i use on it atm: LINK.
Originally by: NightmareNOXP
I just haven't used it in PVP yet.
So you have no problems with them but you have not used them....
You are all mouth and no actual experience and you even admit it so STFU and stop lying about knowing things until you have logged into TQ and fully tried them.....Mr nightmareNOXP.
My views may reflect those of my corp/alliance, but if you wanna know for sure ask em for gods sake. |
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.03.13 15:58:00 -
[355]
Edited by: NightmareX on 13/03/2009 15:58:39
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean
Originally by: NightmareNOXP
But for me and many other that use Blasters 100% right, then Blasters is totally fine. And i have never had problems with Blaster either.
LIAR.....
Originally by: NightmareNOXP
I have a Megathron Navy Issue with 7x Neutron II's on TQ FYI.
Here is the setup i use on it atm: LINK.
Originally by: NightmareNOXP
I just haven't used it in PVP yet.
So you have no problems with them but you have not used them....
You are all mouth and no actual experience and you even admit it so STFU and stop lying about knowing things until you have logged into TQ and fully tried them.....Mr nightmareNOXP.
SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM
Don't you have other things to do than just spamming this topic with things you already have said?.
Oh like i said earlier, nice way to destroy a topic.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
sophisticatedlimabean
Gallente
Delinquent Habits
|
Posted - 2009.03.13 15:58:00 -
[356]
Originally by: NightmareNOXP
But for me and many other that use Blasters 100% right, then Blasters is totally fine. And i have never had problems with Blaster either.
LIAR.....
Originally by: NightmareNOXP
I have a Megathron Navy Issue with 7x Neutron II's on TQ FYI.
Here is the setup i use on it atm: LINK.
Originally by: NightmareNOXP
I just haven't used it in PVP yet.
So you have no problems with them but you have not used them....
You are all mouth and no actual experience and you even admit it so STFU and stop lying about knowing things until you have logged into TQ and fully tried them.....Mr nightmareNOXP.
My views may reflect those of my corp/alliance, but if you wanna know for sure ask em for gods sake. |
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.03.13 15:59:00 -
[357]
Edited by: NightmareX on 13/03/2009 16:00:42
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean
Originally by: NightmareNOXP
But for me and many other that use Blasters 100% right, then Blasters is totally fine. And i have never had problems with Blaster either.
LIAR.....
Originally by: NightmareNOXP
I have a Megathron Navy Issue with 7x Neutron II's on TQ FYI.
Here is the setup i use on it atm: LINK.
Originally by: NightmareNOXP
I just haven't used it in PVP yet.
So you have no problems with them but you have not used them....
You are all mouth and no actual experience and you even admit it so STFU and stop lying about knowing things until you have logged into TQ and fully tried them.....Mr nightmareNOXP.
SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM
Oh damn, you are defeated now i see. Your angry because i told you the truth in one of my replies longer up.
Boooyaa.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
sophisticatedlimabean
Gallente
Delinquent Habits
|
Posted - 2009.03.13 16:01:00 -
[358]
Originally by: NightmareNOXP
I just haven't used it in PVP yet.
So you have no problems with them but you have not used them....
You are all mouth and no actual experience and you even admit it so STFU and stop lying about knowing things until you have logged into TQ and fully tried them.....Mr nightmareNOXP.
My views may reflect those of my corp/alliance, but if you wanna know for sure ask em for gods sake. |
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.03.13 16:02:00 -
[359]
Edited by: NightmareX on 13/03/2009 16:02:41
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean
Originally by: NightmareNOXP
I just haven't used it in PVP yet.
So you have no problems with them but you have not used them....
You are all mouth and no actual experience and you even admit it so STFU and stop lying about knowing things until you have logged into TQ and fully tried them.....Mr nightmareNOXP.
More spam?.
Oh noes, i haven't used my Navy Mega, the Navy Mega is the ONLY BS with Blasters.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Kane Starkiller
|
Posted - 2009.03.13 16:03:00 -
[360]
People! People! Shut the fock up and get along!
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sophisticatedlimabean
Gallente
Delinquent Habits
|
Posted - 2009.03.13 16:04:00 -
[361]
Edited by: sophisticatedlimabean on 13/03/2009 16:04:55
Originally by: NightmareNOXP
I just haven't used it in PVP yet.
So you have no problems with them but you have not used them....
You are all mouth and no actual experience and you even admit it so STFU and stop lying about knowing things until you have logged into TQ and fully tried them.....Mr nightmareNOXP.
Originally by: NightmareNOXP
More spam?.
Truth that you know nothing about wtf you are talking about, until you do stfu.
My views may reflect those of my corp/alliance, but if you wanna know for sure ask em for gods sake. |
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.03.13 16:05:00 -
[362]
Edited by: NightmareX on 13/03/2009 16:07:08
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean
Originally by: NightmareX
More spam?.
Truth that you know nothing about wtf you are talking about, until you do stfu.
Until you give us a detailed explanation of how you use Blasters and that, then you can stfu.
When i say detailed explanation, then i mean what kind of ship did you use, what kind of setup did you use, where was the fight at, how big was each gangs, what kind of ships was in both of the gangs, what range was the fight at etc.
Care to give us a detailed explanation on that or what?. Or are you still gonna do some epic spammage here because your bitter?.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Marn Prestoc
Minmatar
Queens of the Stone Age
Rote Kapelle
|
Posted - 2009.03.13 16:12:00 -
[363]
This is like 2007 with "LASER/AMARR SUCK! BOOST LASERS!" but now with blasters.
Just like Amarr in 2007 there isn't really a major problem with the weapons, its more the ship design/use. Back in 2005/2006 if you suggested full passive tanks people lol'd at you, especially Amarr pilots, but now you get lol'd at for active tanking. Hence if you passvie tank and ignore a bonus and compare it against a ship that uses all its bonuses, of course it will be worse. Its also a problem with the Tier system ccp like, comparing a lower tier to a higher tier will usually be worse unless its a specific role.
It's also the problem with t2 ammo. All the close range ones suck compared to faction, but the long ranged arn't really fair either. It's important to remember that hit quality is linked to hit chance, hence when in falloff you lose damage quickly, which is why optimal is so great.
Scorch only affects Optimal, and its a big 1.5x bonus with a penalty of reducing tracking to 75%, considering the starting amount of optimal thats a huge increase. Now Null affects Optimal by 1.25x and Falloff by 1.25x with the same reduction in tracking to 75%, so with already lower ranges you get a reduced increase compared to scorch because of falloff/hit quality. Barrage gets 1.5x to falloff, which is nothing like 1.5 to optimal on lasers due to hit quality, yet still gets the same reduction in tracking to 75%.
Hence Scorch > Null/Barrage.
If anything needs to be changed with the weapons its T2 ammo, both close range and long variations. If people ignore ship bonuses thats your choice, don't expect to perfom anything like those who use there ship bonuses.
-
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sophisticatedlimabean
Gallente
Delinquent Habits
|
Posted - 2009.03.13 16:15:00 -
[364]
Originally by: NightmareX
When i say detailed explanation, then i mean what kind of ship did you use, what kind of setup did you use, where was the fight at, how big was each gangs, what kind of ships was in both of the gangs, what range was the fight at etc.
That has been done by myself and others on multiple occasions and in several threads, you are just to inexperienced to understand it and tend to make uneducated absurd and naive comments like "warp in and out" as if there no tackle in eve......
UNDERSTAND THAT YOU HAVE SHOWN ON EVERY OCCASION AND HAVE EVEN ADMITTED THAT YOU DO NOT HAVE THE TQ EXPERIENCE TO UNDERSTAND THE TOPICS UNDER DISCUSSION.
But instead of getting some experience you claim over and over that you have not had anything explained to you.....you are a stupid troll who ignores what he does not understand and later pretends it was never said.
GO AWAY AND LEARN.
My views may reflect those of my corp/alliance, but if you wanna know for sure ask em for gods sake. |
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.03.13 16:18:00 -
[365]
Originally by: Marn Prestoc
If anything needs to be changed with the weapons its T2 ammo, both close range and long variations. If people ignore ship bonuses thats your choice, don't expect to perfom anything like those who use there ship bonuses.
Yup, i have said that i support any changes to t2 ammos. So this is fine
As for the stats on guns and ships now, they are perfectly fine. So why change something that isn't broken?.
As things are with t2 ammo atm, i prefer to use faction ammo over t2 ammo.
Except for when i fly a Vagabond. There Barrage is my default ammo choice there.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.03.13 16:19:00 -
[366]
Edited by: NightmareX on 13/03/2009 16:25:28
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean
Originally by: NightmareX
When i say detailed explanation, then i mean what kind of ship did you use, what kind of setup did you use, where was the fight at, how big was each gangs, what kind of ships was in both of the gangs, what range was the fight at etc.
That has been done by myself and others on multiple occasions and in several threads, you are just to inexperienced to understand it and tend to make uneducated absurd and naive comments like "warp in and out" as if there no tackle in eve......
UNDERSTAND THAT YOU HAVE SHOWN ON EVERY OCCASION AND HAVE EVEN ADMITTED THAT YOU DO NOT HAVE THE TQ EXPERIENCE TO UNDERSTAND THE TOPICS UNDER DISCUSSION.
But instead of getting some experience you claim over and over that you have not had anything explained to you.....you are a stupid troll who ignores what he does not understand and later pretends it was never said.
GO AWAY AND LEARN.
Whine whine whine whine all day long.......
Uhm, you have given an explanation like that?. HAHAHAHAHAHAH, your explanation is nothing more than yeah Lasers do omguberpwnage 1k+ DPS and they have uber range so they are better than Blasters.
Yeah very good explanation there dude.
And about the MWD thing and warp out and warp in thing, it's a valid tactic in EVE, so why whine about it?. We can do alot of things in a fight. So this is just one example of what you can do instead of being a sitting duck and die in a bubble.
This ofc is when your not webbed or scrambled. If your webbed and scrambled in a large bubble, yeah your in trouble, but that's not the point here.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
sophisticatedlimabean
Gallente
Delinquent Habits
|
Posted - 2009.03.13 16:35:00 -
[367]
Edited by: sophisticatedlimabean on 13/03/2009 16:36:26
Originally by: NightmareNOXP
TROLL.
And about the MWD thing and warp out and warp in thing, it's a valid tactic in EVE, so why whine about it?.
1. So you warp out your gang leaving behind all those who are pointed and now massively outnumbered to be melted.
2. You warp back in with your now smaller gang right on top of a target and kill it and again warp out leaving behind all the ships that have points on them or are a little slower/in bubbles to again be melted...
3. You repeat this over and over until you run out of ships or your gang kicks you out of the FC position for being a total tard.
The hit and run tactics you are talking about are ok when you are using snipers or ships that have long range abilities as your gang members are not going to be tackled and left behind.
But to try and use those tactics in close range combat is suicide as some of your ships are guaranteed to be pointed or bubbled and are gonna get left behind and melted, and to repeat it over and over will just lose you your gangs ships a chunk at a time for very few kills.
You idea is stupid and it shows again how little you know about the reality of close range gang pvp in a blaster BS on TQ.
My views may reflect those of my corp/alliance, but if you wanna know for sure ask em for gods sake. |
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.03.13 16:38:00 -
[368]
Edited by: NightmareX on 13/03/2009 16:48:49
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean
1. So you warp out your gang leaving behind all those who are pointed and now massively outnumbered to be melted.
2. You warp back in with your now smaller gang right on top of a target and kill it and again warp out leaving behind all the ships that have points on them or are a little slower/in bubbles to again be melted...
3. You repeat this over and over until you run out of ships or your gang kicks you out of the FC position for being a total tard.
The hit and run tactics you are talking about are ok when you are using snipers or ships that have long range abilities as your gang members are not going to be tackled and left behind.
But to try and use those tactics in close range combat is suicide as some of your ships are guaranteed to be pointed or bubbled and are gonna get left behind and melted, and to repeat it over and over will just lose you your gangs ships a chunk at a time for very few kills.
You idea is stupid and it shows again how little you know about the reality of close range gang pvp in a blaster BS on TQ.
1: You only warp out IF YOU HAVE TO. You don't warp out only because you can. Everyone stays and fight until you have no other choices to warp out to save your self IF you can. And then warp in to help more. This apply to both close range and sniper range fights.
The more ships we have alive, the more chance we have to win, even when some of our pilots in gang have to warp out and then in to save the ship.
I though you was smart enough to see that, but well i guess, i was wrong. At least, one point proven that you don't know how to PVP.
2: See number 1.
3: See number 1.
Happy now?.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
sophisticatedlimabean
Gallente
Delinquent Habits
|
Posted - 2009.03.13 16:49:00 -
[369]
Edited by: sophisticatedlimabean on 13/03/2009 16:51:08
Originally by: NightmareX
1: You only warp out IF YOU HAVE TO. You don't warp out only because you can. Everyone stays and fight until you have no other choices to warp out to save your self. And then warp in.
Stop moving the goal posts.
The discussion was about you claiming that "warping in and out" was a valid tactic for blaster ships to use against laser ships at 20-30km range instead of burning after each and every laser ship one at a time.
And if you try that you will do exactly as i said and leave behind your tackled ships to be melted. Oh and even if you had to warp out to "save yourself" you are doing it cos you have been primaried and will be pointed or bubbled to hell and totally unable to warp anyway....get a clue.
You are such a noob in close range BS gang combat its a joke.
My views may reflect those of my corp/alliance, but if you wanna know for sure ask em for gods sake. |
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.03.13 16:55:00 -
[370]
Edited by: NightmareX on 13/03/2009 17:03:00
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean
Originally by: NightmareX
1: You only warp out IF YOU HAVE TO. You don't warp out only because you can. Everyone stays and fight until you have no other choices to warp out to save your self. And then warp in.
Stop moving the goal posts.
The discussion was about you claiming that "warping in and out" was a valid tactic for blaster ships to use against laser ships at 20-30km range instead of burning after each and every laser ship one at a time.
And if you try that you will do exactly as i said and leave behind your tackled ships to be melted. Oh and even if you had to warp out to "save yourself" you are doing it cos you have been primaried and will be pointed or bubbled to hell and totally unable to anyway....get a clue.
It was an example, then so what?. Everyone can warp out and in again if they can.
Believe me, i have been in a 300 vs 450 man fight in 0.0 space with MANY dictors and HIC's on us many times and many times with the same amount of players. And we have been bubbled to hell and back. But still, i have managed to get out in my Tempest when i see that many of the enemies have me as secondary. Also when i see many start to flash yellow to me.
Because when 70% of the enemies start to lock you (flash yellow), then you better be ready to warp out if you can. Because if not, your going to instapop most likely.
When i was in Triumvirate, we was always fighting outnumbered, or 98% of the times we was always outnumbered. And we did a very very good job in the fights even outnumbered.
And the FC's we had in Tri that time was some of the best you can find in EVE, specially Super Twinkey.
There is a reason why i had such fun there, because we did everything right, both when it's about target calling and what to do when we are getting bubbled and that etc.
And i have learned many many things from those fights in 0.0 space. And i know what to do because i learned many good things about PVP when it's about the sizes the fights we had was in.
Use the right tactics and you can even survive 10:1 outnumbered to.
It's not hard. Just use your brain and woila, your going to win lots of fight, because your smarter than the enemies.
There is so many tactics to use that it's not even funny to think about how many there is.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
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sophisticatedlimabean
Gallente
Delinquent Habits
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Posted - 2009.03.13 17:07:00 -
[371]
Edited by: sophisticatedlimabean on 13/03/2009 17:10:13
Originally by: NightmareX
Believe me, i have been in a 300 vs 400 man fight in 0.0 space with MANY dictors and HIC's.
Sniper fleets maybe (but then who has not been in a blob war at one time or another) but not 400 vs 300 close range BS fights you aint.
Originally by: NightmareX
When i was in Triumvirate, we was always fighting outnumbered, or 98% of the times we was always outnumbered. And we did a very good job in the fights even outnumbered.
Nano, RR and range were what TRI mostly used to win fights and most of the time flying against fools...i have been with TRI a few times myself over the years (last time i was with them racked up 500 kills for 1 loss in a month) and i was FCing a lot of the gangs, and just cos a lot of the tri pilots (not all some were tools) listened and knew how to fly does not change the fact that blasters need fixing NOW.
My views may reflect those of my corp/alliance, but if you wanna know for sure ask em for gods sake. |
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.03.13 17:33:00 -
[372]
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean
blasters need fixing NOW.
Dude, it's not Blasters that need fixing, it's the t2 ammo.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
sophisticatedlimabean
Gallente
Delinquent Habits
|
Posted - 2009.03.13 17:35:00 -
[373]
Originally by: NightmareX
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean
blasters need fixing NOW.
Dude, it's not Blasters that need fixing, it's the t2 ammo.
What ever....the bloody things are useless without ammo so it goes without saying that things need adjusting. If it is done with the gun bonuses or ammo or ship bonuses is not really important.
My views may reflect those of my corp/alliance, but if you wanna know for sure ask em for gods sake. |
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.03.13 17:38:00 -
[374]
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean
Originally by: NightmareX
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean
blasters need fixing NOW.
Dude, it's not Blasters that need fixing, it's the t2 ammo.
What ever....the bloody things are useless without ammo so it goes without saying that things need adjusting. If it is done with the gun bonuses or ammo or ship bonuses is not really important.
Hahah, yeah call it whatever you want there.
But in my eyes, Blaster are very usefull, simply because they are extremely good at what they are supposed to do and what they are meant to be used for.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
sophisticatedlimabean
Gallente
Delinquent Habits
|
Posted - 2009.03.13 18:09:00 -
[375]
Originally by: NightmareX
But in my eyes, Blaster are very usefull, simply because they are extremely good at what they are supposed to do and what they are meant to be used for.
I do not think that BS blasters are particularly useful on TQ for anything and certainly not "extremely good", and even so its not like ppl on TQ can type into local asking for the exact type of fight they are looking for and then head to a BF area to do it in like you do on sissi.
What blasters may be ok at does not really exist on TQ and because of the web nerf as well as other things they are now almost obsolete as far as effectivness is concerned.
My views may reflect those of my corp/alliance, but if you wanna know for sure ask em for gods sake. |
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Blackguard Coalition
|
Posted - 2009.03.13 18:30:00 -
[376]
Originally by: Marn Prestoc
This is like 2007 with "LASER/AMARR SUCK! BOOST LASERS!" but now with blasters.
Just like Amarr in 2007 there isn't really a major problem with the weapons, its more the ship design/use. Back in 2005/2006 if you suggested full passive tanks people lol'd at you, especially Amarr pilots, but now you get lol'd at for active tanking. Hence if you passvie tank and ignore a bonus and compare it against a ship that uses all its bonuses, of course it will be worse. Its also a problem with the Tier system ccp like, comparing a lower tier to a higher tier will usually be worse unless its a specific role.
It's also the problem with t2 ammo. All the close range ones suck compared to faction, but the long ranged arn't really fair either. It's important to remember that hit quality is linked to hit chance, hence when in falloff you lose damage quickly, which is why optimal is so great.
Scorch only affects Optimal, and its a big 1.5x bonus with a penalty of reducing tracking to 75%, considering the starting amount of optimal thats a huge increase. Now Null affects Optimal by 1.25x and Falloff by 1.25x with the same reduction in tracking to 75%, so with already lower ranges you get a reduced increase compared to scorch because of falloff/hit quality. Barrage gets 1.5x to falloff, which is nothing like 1.5 to optimal on lasers due to hit quality, yet still gets the same reduction in tracking to 75%.
Hence Scorch > Null/Barrage.
If anything needs to be changed with the weapons its T2 ammo, both close range and long variations. If people ignore ship bonuses thats your choice, don't expect to perfom anything like those who use there ship bonuses.
That's a really perceptive post Marn. Damn shame it'll be lost in the flaming. :)
-Liang
--
Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
www.kwikdeath.org |
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.03.13 18:48:00 -
[377]
Edited by: NightmareX on 13/03/2009 18:49:53
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean
Originally by: NightmareX
But in my eyes, Blaster are very usefull, simply because they are extremely good at what they are supposed to do and what they are meant to be used for.
I do not think that BS blasters are particularly useful on TQ for anything and certainly not "extremely good", and even so its not like ppl on TQ can type into local asking for the exact type of fight they are looking for and then head to a BF area to do it in like you do on sissi.
What blasters may be ok at does not really exist on TQ and because of the web nerf as well as other things they are now almost obsolete as far as effectivness is concerned.
Hey, you use Blasters wrong and i use them right, so i think we can come to the conclusion that Blasters are fine when you use them right and at the right time. NO MATTER how much better Lasers or other weapon types are better than Blasters at more ranges (from 20 to 30 km). Blasters are still the king in close range.
And it doesn't matter if i'm doing some tests and tests out different ships on sisi etc, Blasters are still the king of weapon in close range.
And yes, Blasters are used very much on TQ now. It's doesn't take long time to browse some killboards to find that out.
So since so many use them now, i'll guess Blasters is fine. Because if they had been broken as you say they are, then no one would ever use them.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.03.13 18:52:00 -
[378]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: Marn Prestoc
This is like 2007 with "LASER/AMARR SUCK! BOOST LASERS!" but now with blasters.
Just like Amarr in 2007 there isn't really a major problem with the weapons, its more the ship design/use. Back in 2005/2006 if you suggested full passive tanks people lol'd at you, especially Amarr pilots, but now you get lol'd at for active tanking. Hence if you passvie tank and ignore a bonus and compare it against a ship that uses all its bonuses, of course it will be worse. Its also a problem with the Tier system ccp like, comparing a lower tier to a higher tier will usually be worse unless its a specific role.
It's also the problem with t2 ammo. All the close range ones suck compared to faction, but the long ranged arn't really fair either. It's important to remember that hit quality is linked to hit chance, hence when in falloff you lose damage quickly, which is why optimal is so great.
Scorch only affects Optimal, and its a big 1.5x bonus with a penalty of reducing tracking to 75%, considering the starting amount of optimal thats a huge increase. Now Null affects Optimal by 1.25x and Falloff by 1.25x with the same reduction in tracking to 75%, so with already lower ranges you get a reduced increase compared to scorch because of falloff/hit quality. Barrage gets 1.5x to falloff, which is nothing like 1.5 to optimal on lasers due to hit quality, yet still gets the same reduction in tracking to 75%.
Hence Scorch > Null/Barrage.
If anything needs to be changed with the weapons its T2 ammo, both close range and long variations. If people ignore ship bonuses thats your choice, don't expect to perfom anything like those who use there ship bonuses.
That's a really perceptive post Marn. Damn shame it'll be lost in the flaming. :)
-Liang
Yup that's how it is now. Fix t2 ammo and then see how that will turn out.
As the ships and weapons systems are now, they are perfectly fine and balanced in it's own ways. No need to fix something that isn't broken.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
sophisticatedlimabean
Gallente
Delinquent Habits
|
Posted - 2009.03.13 18:58:00 -
[379]
Originally by: NightmareX
Hey, you use Blasters wrong and i use them right, so i think we can come to the conclusion that Blasters are fine when you use them right and at the right time. NO MATTER how much better Lasers or other weapon types are better than Blasters at more ranges (from 20 to 30 km). Blasters are still the king in close range.
Wrong they are very poor at close range combat and a lot worse than lasers, and you do not use them at all on TQ.
Originally by: NightmareX
And yes, Blasters are used very much on TQ now. It's doesn't take long time to browse some killboards to find that out.
Another lie the top dmg dealers in BS combat are almost always laser BS.
The only reason ppl are still using blasters is that they have not got anything else trained cos if they did they would fly it, i know myself and a lot of others who are training up for amarr BS 5 and large laser specializations as we speak.
But i know NOBODY who has stopped training lasers so they can train blasters.
My views may reflect those of my corp/alliance, but if you wanna know for sure ask em for gods sake. |
Forumz Warrior
|
Posted - 2009.03.13 19:00:00 -
[380]
Originally by: NightmareX
Hey, you use Blasters wrong and i use them right, so i think we can come to the conclusion that Blasters are fine when you use them right and at the right time.
Browsing your kills on TQ I can conclude 2 things.
1. You PVP very little
2. You don't use blaster boats.
So, unless you have an alt I'm not seeing, it's really hard to take you seriously. Actually, having read many of your posts in the past, it's hard to take you seriously on any subject.
Personally I think blasters need a range *and* a DPS boost, as they're really not useful in most gang situations in 0.0.
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sophisticatedlimabean
Gallente
Delinquent Habits
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Posted - 2009.03.13 19:02:00 -
[381]
Originally by: Forumz Warrior
Originally by: NightmareX
Hey, you use Blasters wrong and i use them right, so i think we can come to the conclusion that Blasters are fine when you use them right and at the right time.
Browsing your kills on TQ I can conclude 2 things.
1. You PVP very little
2. You don't use blaster boats.
So, unless you have an alt I'm not seeing, it's really hard to take you seriously. Actually, having read many of your posts in the past, it's hard to take you seriously on any subject.
Personally I think blasters need a range *and* a DPS boost, as they're really not useful in most gang situations in 0.0.
Heh owned....
My views may reflect those of my corp/alliance, but if you wanna know for sure ask em for gods sake. |
prodalt
|
Posted - 2009.03.13 19:07:00 -
[382]
Originally by: Ig Neus
I have said the same thing in another way. If Hyperion was actually a useful ship with 8 turrets, more low slots (7 for 2 LAR, 2 resistance mods and 3 MFS) and the Grid required to fit 8 Neutrons II, MWD, Heavy Cap Booster, 2 LARs and a 125m3 Drone Bay things would be different.
Currently we have to Compare the damage of 8 Pulses with 7 Blasters while the only Gallente Battleship that is able of fitting 8 Blasters is a joke. A bit stupid, isn't it?
The hyperion is a useful ship. The ship you propose would be ludicrously overpowered.
Originally by: Marn Prestoc
This is like 2007 with "LASER/AMARR SUCK! BOOST LASERS!" but now with blasters.
No, its not. There were legitimate problems with sub-battleships. If you said "it was like laser battleship whines" you would be correct, because there was nothing wrong with laser battleships (at all) in 2007 just as there is nothing wrong with blasterships today.
Quote:
Just like Amarr in 2007 there isn't really a major problem with the weapons, its more the ship design/use.
Not really, no. Unless you're saying its a problem with people not understanding how the ships ought to be used.
Quote:
Hence Scorch > Null/Barrage.
If anything needs to be changed with the weapons its T2 ammo, both close range and long variations. If people ignore ship bonuses thats your choice, don't expect to perfom anything like those who use there ship bonuses.
You're ignoring other considerations when you're making your determinations, from the 91% EM bias on scorch to the 30% tracking advantage on barrage and hail. The bonuses themselves mean nothing unless they're applied to the weapons and ships they go on and when that happens, the lower tracking on lasers does mean that hit quality complaints are more or less unfounded.
If you reduced the value of scorch, not only would you threaten to kill current laser battleships, but you would do the same to all sub-bs variants. Its not a reasonable proposition.
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Goumindong
Amarr
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.03.13 19:08:00 -
[383]
Damnit that is me. Stupid forum not recording my default character
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Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Blackguard Coalition
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Posted - 2009.03.13 19:14:00 -
[384]
Originally by: prodalt
If you reduced the value of scorch, not only would you threaten to kill current laser battleships, but you would do the same to all sub-bs variants. Its not a reasonable proposition.
Goum, EM is not a bad damage type anymore. Not by a long shot. Also, Scorch M is also far superior to Null/Barrage M (not that I don't swear by my Barrage M... but it's only because it's the least sucky ammo we have).
Scorch could stand a smallish nerf across the board and lasers would still be uber.
-Liang
--
Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
www.kwikdeath.org |
Dethuss
Gallente
The Littlest Pwny
|
Posted - 2009.03.13 19:26:00 -
[385]
Edited by: Dethuss on 13/03/2009 19:26:47
Originally by: Goumindong
Damnit that is me. Stupid forum not recording my default character
Blasters are useless in almost every gang situation, how can that not be a problem?
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Zomg Penguin |
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.03.13 19:33:00 -
[386]
Edited by: NightmareX on 13/03/2009 19:35:47
Originally by: Forumz Warrior
Originally by: NightmareX
Hey, you use Blasters wrong and i use them right, so i think we can come to the conclusion that Blasters are fine when you use them right and at the right time.
Browsing your kills on TQ I can conclude 2 things.
1. You PVP very little
2. You don't use blaster boats.
So, unless you have an alt I'm not seeing, it's really hard to take you seriously. Actually, having read many of your posts in the past, it's hard to take you seriously on any subject.
Personally I think blasters need a range *and* a DPS boost, as they're really not useful in most gang situations in 0.0.
To answer you.
1: I have something called RL. Not everybody have RL though, some live to play EVE all day long. But i'm not.
2: I have used Blaster many times both on TQ and Sisi, so i know how they work.
If you give Blasters a range and DPS boost, then what will happen with Autocannons then?,. Should we just trash them because they are way out of balance with Blasters?.
And also, many peoples here takes one thing terribly wrong. Many thinks that i'm talking about PVP experience when i'm talking about how Blasters and every of the BS'es works ingame. Finding out how those works have NOTHING to do with PVP experience.
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean
Originally by: NightmareX
Hey, you use Blasters wrong and i use them right, so i think we can come to the conclusion that Blasters are fine when you use them right and at the right time. NO MATTER how much better Lasers or other weapon types are better than Blasters at more ranges (from 20 to 30 km). Blasters are still the king in close range.
Wrong they are very poor at close range combat and a lot worse than lasers, and you do not use them at all on TQ.
Originally by: NightmareX
And yes, Blasters are used very much on TQ now. It's doesn't take long time to browse some killboards to find that out.
Another lie the top dmg dealers in BS combat are almost always laser BS.
The only reason ppl are still using blasters is that they have not got anything else trained cos if they did they would fly it, i know myself and a lot of others who are training up for amarr BS 5 and large laser specializations as we speak.
But i know NOBODY who has stopped training lasers so they can train blasters.
First. No Blasters ARE the best weapon system in close range combat whatever you say. And no, atm i don't use Blasters on TQ, simply because i'm the person who use lets say a Tempest and a Hurricane for some months and then i change to other ships and after some few months then, then i'm back to a Tempest and a Hurricane.
The reason i mostly use a Tempest is because it doesn't exist a ship for me that are more fun to use. Because it have so many options when it's about setups and how you can fight with the ship.
But that doesn't mean that when i say Blasters are the king in close range fight is not true.
Just remember, i know 100% how every weapon systems in EVE works.
And you say Lasers are always the top damage dealers on killmails?. Hahahaha epic comedy gold there. Explain those killmail for me then. Yes this is sniping.
Killmail, Killmail 2, Killmail 3, Killmail 4, Killmail 5, Killmail 6, Killmail 7, Killmail 8.
Now explain that.
I can still go on for mamy many more of that.
Now, want some cheese with your lies?.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
sophisticatedlimabean
Gallente
Delinquent Habits
|
Posted - 2009.03.13 19:34:00 -
[387]
Originally by: Dethuss
Originally by: Goumindong
Damnit that is me. Stupid forum not recording my default character
Blasters are useless in almost every gang situation, how can that not be a problem?
He flies amarr and thinks its ok and no problem at all that blaster ships are crap at every thing but a obsolete form of pvp and even at style they now suck at due to the web nerf.....
My views may reflect those of my corp/alliance, but if you wanna know for sure ask em for gods sake. |
sophisticatedlimabean
Gallente
Delinquent Habits
|
Posted - 2009.03.13 19:37:00 -
[388]
Originally by: NightmareX
Just remember, i know 100% how every weapon systems in EVE works.
You know nothing about the systems and how effective they are on TQ.
Originally by: NightmareX
And you say Lasers are always the top damage dealers on killmails. Hahahaha epic comedy there. Explain those killmail for me then. Yes this is sniping.
Killmail, Killmail 2, Killmail 3, Killmail 4, Killmail 5, Killmail 6, Killmail 7, Killmail 8.
Now explain that.
Those are sniper killmail you moron we are discussing blasters vs pulse ffs....
My views may reflect those of my corp/alliance, but if you wanna know for sure ask em for gods sake. |
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.03.13 19:43:00 -
[389]
Edited by: NightmareX on 13/03/2009 19:47:03
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean
Originally by: NightmareX
Just remember, i know 100% how every weapon systems in EVE works.
You know nothing about the systems and how effective they are on TQ.
Originally by: NightmareX
And you say Lasers are always the top damage dealers on killmails. Hahahaha epic comedy there. Explain those killmail for me then. Yes this is sniping.
Killmail, Killmail 2, Killmail 3, Killmail 4, Killmail 5, Killmail 6, Killmail 7, Killmail 8.
Now explain that.
Those are sniper killmail you moron we are discussing blasters vs pulse ffs....
Hey, then explain to me how Blasters works if you know better than me how Blasters works.
I'm waiting for the epic luls if your gonna explain how they work.
LOL, those killmails is also to prove another thing to that many noobs and idiots are whining about. Yes, they cry that a Tempest is the crappiest sniper in the game, but wtf?, what does those killmails shows exactly?. It's shows that those whiners are lieing so much that they get green in the face.
If you know how Blasters work, then give me a detailed explanation on how they work. Before that, your a liar.
And oh, you want me to post killmaills that are with Blasters vs Pulses to?.
Or maybe i shouldn't do that, because then you will see that i'm so right that is possible to be and then you will go emo rage and spam the topic again.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Ephemeron
North Eastern Swat
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.03.13 19:44:00 -
[390]
Just ask yourself this:
if you get about same damage output from blasters and pulse lasers.. which weapon would you prefer?
Obviously you would judge them on the other stats, such as optimal/falloff, tracking, cap use, grid use, cpu use.
To me, it seems like pulse lasers are clearly the better choice in that scenario. Does anyone here want to say that they would choose blasters? keeping in mind this hypothetical scenario
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ZZ99
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Posted - 2009.03.13 19:49:00 -
[391]
Edited by: ZZ99 on 13/03/2009 19:54:55
sophisticatedlimabean and Nightmarex should fight on tq, nightmarex will fly a blastermega/blasterhype and limabean can fly a pulsepoc/pulsebaddon.
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
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Posted - 2009.03.13 19:50:00 -
[392]
Edited by: NightmareX on 13/03/2009 19:51:43
Originally by: Ephemeron
Just ask yourself this:
if you get about same damage output from blasters and pulse lasers.. which weapon would you prefer?
Obviously you would judge them on the other stats, such as optimal/falloff, tracking, cap use, grid use, cpu use.
To me, it seems like pulse lasers are clearly the better choice in that scenario. Does anyone here want to say that they would choose blasters? keeping in mind this hypothetical scenario
Stats wise on the guns, yes they are best if you see it that way. But when you take other things as tracking in close range for Lasers and what kind of damage Lasers deals, then i wouldn't use them because of the omni tanks most peoples are using on armor ships.
If we are talking about med range fights, then i can agree that Lasers are a better choice. But i have only done close range and sniping in the fights i have been in. So then a Tempest or a Megathron is the best choices for me then.
I rather choose to have better damage and better tracking over longer range.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
sophisticatedlimabean
Gallente
Delinquent Habits
|
Posted - 2009.03.13 19:50:00 -
[393]
Edited by: sophisticatedlimabean on 13/03/2009 19:57:05
Originally by: NightmareX
And no, atm i don't use Blasters on TQ, simply because i'm the person who use lets say a Tempest and a Hurricane for some months and then i change to other ships and after some few months then, then i'm back to a Tempest and a Hurricane.
When will you learn not to post statements about your past along with links to your past proving you a liar....
You do not do a lot in those "OTHER" ships though do you...as its all mini and a CNR on here....
NightmareX ships and modules used.....
PS: As to a lot of those kill mails look at the ships killed and how many BS were shooting at them...im sure you will figure out why the mini ships were on the top of the KM seeing as you know so much about ALL weapon systems in eve...
My views may reflect those of my corp/alliance, but if you wanna know for sure ask em for gods sake. |
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.03.13 19:55:00 -
[394]
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean
Originally by: NightmareX
And no, atm i don't use Blasters on TQ, simply because i'm the person who use lets say a Tempest and a Hurricane for some months and then i change to other ships and after some few months then, then i'm back to a Tempest and a Hurricane.
When will you learn not to post statements about your past along with links to your past proving you a liar....
You do not do a lot in those "OTHER" ships though do you...as its all mini and a CNR on here....
NightmareX ships and modules used.....
It's all kinds of ships in those killmails. And it proves another thing that many idiots are whining about, yes the sniping Tempest. What does those killmails exactly shows?. Yes it shows that a sniper Tempest is much better than peoples says they are.
There is no other reasons i use a Tempest for sniping, because it's much much better than peoples thinks it is.
And about the change of ships after some months. That are like it is on TQ for me now.
It's just a matter of time before i goes from a Tempest to another BS.
I like to change on the ships. Using the same ship over and over tends to be boring after a while.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
sophisticatedlimabean
Gallente
Delinquent Habits
|
Posted - 2009.03.13 20:01:00 -
[395]
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean
When will you learn not to post statements about your past along with links to your past proving you a liar....
You do not do a lot in those "OTHER" ships though do you...as its all mini and a CNR on here....
NightmareX ships and modules used.....
Originally by: NightmareX
It's all kinds of ships in those killmails.
Actually that link shows you have never killed anything for TRI in summat other than a mini ship and 1 kill in a CNR...
My views may reflect those of my corp/alliance, but if you wanna know for sure ask em for gods sake. |
Galluzzi
|
Posted - 2009.03.13 20:05:00 -
[396]
Everytime i read a post from NightmareX my IQ drops below zero.
|
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.03.13 20:06:00 -
[397]
Edited by: NightmareX on 13/03/2009 20:07:04
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean
When will you learn not to post statements about your past along with links to your past proving you a liar....
You do not do a lot in those "OTHER" ships though do you...as its all mini and a CNR on here....
NightmareX ships and modules used.....
Originally by: NightmareX
It's all kinds of ships in those killmails.
Actually that link shows you have never killed anything for TRI in summat other than a mini ship and 1 kill in a CNR...
Yeah ONLY when i was in Tri for the few months i was, before they kinda dispanded that time.
But don't forget that i have been using other ships and weapons the other 3+ years i have been playing outside of Tri.
Originally by: Galluzzi
Everytime i read a post from NightmareX my IQ drops below zero.
Haha, that made me smile.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
sophisticatedlimabean
Gallente
Delinquent Habits
|
Posted - 2009.03.13 20:06:00 -
[398]
Originally by: Galluzzi
Everytime i read a post from NightmareX my IQ drops below zero.
I think its nice of you to head down there and keep his IQ company tbh....
My views may reflect those of my corp/alliance, but if you wanna know for sure ask em for gods sake. |
sophisticatedlimabean
Gallente
Delinquent Habits
|
Posted - 2009.03.13 20:10:00 -
[399]
Originally by: NightmareX
But don't forget that i have been using other ships and weapons the other 3+ years i have been playing outside of Tri.
Its pretty hard to forget summat that you have no memory of as it never happened....
So you say you have 400+ killmails that just "disappeared" and that they are in every ship class in eve that you are a total pro and know everything about?....
LIAR.
My views may reflect those of my corp/alliance, but if you wanna know for sure ask em for gods sake. |
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.03.13 20:19:00 -
[400]
Edited by: NightmareX on 13/03/2009 20:23:16
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean
Originally by: NightmareX
But don't forget that i have been using other ships and weapons the other 3+ years i have been playing outside of Tri.
Its pretty hard to forget summat that you have no memory of as it never happened....
So you say you have 400+ killmails that just "disappeared" and that they are in every ship class in eve that you are a total pro and know everything about?....
LIAR.
HAHAHAHAHA, you talk about remembering things.
Trying to be funny now?.
About the killmails,. Yes many killmails are missing. Just ask any TunDraGon's members about the 90+ kills i got that time within 2 hours of play time in that corp. Those killmails simply doesn't exist today.
I would be happy if the killboard to TDG still exist today. I would be very very happy to prove you that i'm not lying when it's about those killmails. And also that i'm not lying when i say that Battleclinic doesn't shows ANYTHING when it's about how many i have killed etc.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
|
|
sophisticatedlimabean
Gallente
Delinquent Habits
|
Posted - 2009.03.13 20:22:00 -
[401]
Edited by: sophisticatedlimabean on 13/03/2009 20:26:06
Originally by: NightmareX
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean
Originally by: NightmareX
But don't forget that i have been using other ships and weapons the other 3+ years i have been playing outside of Tri.
Its pretty hard to forget summat that you have no memory of as it never happened....
So you say you have 400+ killmails that just "disappeared" and that they are in every ship class in eve that you are a total pro and know everything about?....
LIAR.
HAHAHAHAHA, you talk about remembering things.
Trying to be funny now?.
There is nothing wrong with my memory, i can remember all the times you have lied about having 400+ more kills than your records show.
Even your losses on BC only show you in MINI ships and 1 raven...
My views may reflect those of my corp/alliance, but if you wanna know for sure ask em for gods sake. |
Cohkka
Celestial Apocalypse
|
Posted - 2009.03.13 20:22:00 -
[402]
Originally by: prodalt
If you reduced the value of scorch, not only would you threaten to kill current laser battleships, but you would do the same to all sub-bs variants. Its not a reasonable proposition.
As it is, Scorch outdamages longrange weaponsystems with their most damaging Ammo loaded at 45km. I think the fact that Mega Pulse are best at everything from 10-45km is quite OP. A cut down to 30-35km optimal wouldn't hurt them much. And as for sub-BS... every race has to put up with problems with their shortrange weaponsystems. That said you're fighting in web/scram range with current Pulse anyway.
Don't speak english, just F5, F5, F5... |
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.03.13 20:26:00 -
[403]
Edited by: NightmareX on 13/03/2009 20:26:05
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean
Originally by: NightmareX
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean
Originally by: NightmareX
But don't forget that i have been using other ships and weapons the other 3+ years i have been playing outside of Tri.
Its pretty hard to forget summat that you have no memory of as it never happened....
So you say you have 400+ killmails that just "disappeared" and that they are in every ship class in eve that you are a total pro and know everything about?....
LIAR.
HAHAHAHAHA, you talk about remembering things.
Trying to be funny now?.
There is nothing wrong with my memory, i can remember all the times you have lied about having 400+ more kills than your records show.
Read THIS again.
And you say that you can remember, but then why have you forgotten that i have proven you like 10 times to now that not all of my kills are on Battleclinic. I even gave you a link to another killboard that had some kills that is not on Battleclinic.
Still gonna lie because of your memory problems?.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
sophisticatedlimabean
Gallente
Delinquent Habits
|
Posted - 2009.03.13 20:29:00 -
[404]
Edited by: sophisticatedlimabean on 13/03/2009 20:31:53
Originally by: NightmareX
And you say that you can remember, but then why have you forgotten that i have proven you like 10 times to now that not all of my kills are on Battleclinic. I even gave you a link to another killboard that had some kills that is not on Battleclinic.
Still gonna lie because of your memory problems?.
There is nothing wrong with my memory you just did a ninja edit, and you have never proven you have 400+ missing killmails even once let alone 10 times....
Lie on top of lie.
PS: TunDraGon AS A CORP AS WELL AS THEIR KILLS ARE REGISTERED ON BC....
My views may reflect those of my corp/alliance, but if you wanna know for sure ask em for gods sake. |
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.03.13 20:32:00 -
[405]
Edited by: NightmareX on 13/03/2009 20:35:28
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean
Originally by: NightmareX
And you say that you can remember, but then why have you forgotten that i have proven you like 10 times to now that not all of my kills are on Battleclinic. I even gave you a link to another killboard that had some kills that is not on Battleclinic.
Still gonna lie because of your memory problems?.
There is nothing wrong with my memory you just did a ninja edit, and you have never proven you have 400+ missing killmails even once let alone 10 times....
Lie on top of lie.
PS: TunDraGon AS A CORP AS WELL AS THEIR KILLS ARE REGISTERED ON BC....
http://killboard.eve-extra.com/show_kills.php?id=11544
Now, whos the liar here. Care to explain why those killmails there are not on Battleclinic?.
Oh noes, you can't, because i just proved you that i'm right that Battleclinic doesn't have all of my kills, not even near the right numbers.
Oh crap, some of the members in TDG had posted their killmails on Battleclinic?, yeah that doesn't mean i bothered to post them there that time.
HAHAHA, you just pwned your self there. Good work.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Dethis
Caldari
Queens of the Stone Age
Rote Kapelle
|
Posted - 2009.03.13 20:34:00 -
[406]
Originally by: NightmareX
Edited by: NightmareX on 13/03/2009 20:33:33
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean
Originally by: NightmareX
And you say that you can remember, but then why have you forgotten that i have proven you like 10 times to now that not all of my kills are on Battleclinic. I even gave you a link to another killboard that had some kills that is not on Battleclinic.
Still gonna lie because of your memory problems?.
There is nothing wrong with my memory you just did a ninja edit, and you have never proven you have 400+ missing killmails even once let alone 10 times....
Lie on top of lie.
PS: TunDraGon AS A CORP AS WELL AS THEIR KILLS ARE REGISTERED ON BC....
http://killboard.eve-extra.com/show_kills.php?id=11544
Now, whos the liar here. Care to explain why those killmails there are not on Battleclinic?.
Oh noes, you can't, because i just proved you that i'm right that Battleclinic doesn't have all of my kills, not even near the right numbers.
Oh wth, some of the members in TDG had posted their killmails on Battleclinic?, yeah that doesn't mean i bothered to post them there that time.
Just have to say.
That is the most god awfully ugly killboard ever
--------
|
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.03.13 20:37:00 -
[407]
Originally by: Dethis
Just have to say.
That is the most god awfully ugly killboard ever
ORLY?
When i was in TDG, that KB was one of the few killboards we used to post killmails on.
Ofc, i posted all of my kills i had in TDG on the TDG killboard that time. But not sure if that kb still exist or if it have been down for ages now.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
sophisticatedlimabean
Gallente
Delinquent Habits
|
Posted - 2009.03.13 20:38:00 -
[408]
Edited by: sophisticatedlimabean on 13/03/2009 20:40:08
Originally by: NightmareX
http://killboard.eve-extra.com/show_kills.php?id=11544
Now, whos the liar here. Care to explain why those killmails there are not on Battleclinic?.
http://www.battleclinic.com/eve_online/pk/view.php?type=player&name=Mark
My views may reflect those of my corp/alliance, but if you wanna know for sure ask em for gods sake. |
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.03.13 20:41:00 -
[409]
Edited by: NightmareX on 13/03/2009 20:45:42
Edited by: NightmareX on 13/03/2009 20:42:36
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean
Originally by: NightmareX
http://killboard.eve-extra.com/show_kills.php?id=11544
Now, whos the liar here. Care to explain why those killmails there are not on Battleclinic?.
......
http://www.battleclinic.com/eve_online/pk/view.php?type=player&name=Mark+Orecrusher&filter=losses#show
Congrats on finding one killmails from that list.
Now where is the rest?.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
sophisticatedlimabean
Gallente
Delinquent Habits
|
Posted - 2009.03.13 20:42:00 -
[410]
Edited by: sophisticatedlimabean on 13/03/2009 20:43:52
Originally by: NightmareX
When i was in TDG, that KB was one of the few killboards we used to post killmails on.
Ofc, i posted all of my kills i had in TDG on the TDG killboard that time. But not sure if that kb still exist or if it have been down for ages now.
TDG kills and losses on BC.....
http://www.battleclinic.com/eve_online/pk/view/corp-TunDraGon-kills.html
My views may reflect those of my corp/alliance, but if you wanna know for sure ask em for gods sake. |
|
|
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.03.13 20:44:00 -
[411]
Edited by: NightmareX on 13/03/2009 20:45:06
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean
Originally by: NightmareX
When i was in TDG, that KB was one of the few killboards we used to post killmails on.
Ofc, i posted all of my kills i had in TDG on the TDG killboard that time. But not sure if that kb still exist or if it have been down for ages now.
http://www.battleclinic.com/eve_online/pk/view/corp-TunDraGon-kills.html
Yeah, try and find my name in those 4k+ kills.
Hell, TDG had way more than 4k kills just after 1-2 months the time i was in TDG.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Trader20
|
Posted - 2009.03.13 20:45:00 -
[412]
Originally by: NightmareX
Originally by: Dethis
Just have to say.
That is the most god awfully ugly killboard ever
ORLY?
When i was in TDG, that KB was one of the few killboards we used to post killmails on.
Ofc, i posted all of my kills i had in TDG on the TDG killboard that time. But not sure if that kb still exist or if it have been down for ages now.
Come'on now, I don't always agree with everything Nightmarex says but I do know one thing, he is one the best pvp'ers in Eve.
|
sophisticatedlimabean
Gallente
Delinquent Habits
|
Posted - 2009.03.13 20:46:00 -
[413]
Originally by: NightmareX
Edited by: NightmareX on 13/03/2009 20:45:06
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean
Originally by: NightmareX
When i was in TDG, that KB was one of the few killboards we used to post killmails on.
Ofc, i posted all of my kills i had in TDG on the TDG killboard that time. But not sure if that kb still exist or if it have been down for ages now.
http://www.battleclinic.com/eve_online/pk/view/corp-TunDraGon-kills.html
Yeah, try and find my name in those 4k+ kills.
Hell, TDG had way more than 4k kills just after 1-2 months the time i was in TDG.
The kill from TDG on BC are from 2004-2008..........
My views may reflect those of my corp/alliance, but if you wanna know for sure ask em for gods sake. |
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Blackguard Coalition
|
Posted - 2009.03.13 20:46:00 -
[414]
Can you two stop?
-Liang
--
Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
www.kwikdeath.org |
Trader20
|
Posted - 2009.03.13 20:49:00 -
[415]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Can you two stop?
-Liang
They should set up a fight on sisi and see wat weapons system is actually better by testing it.
|
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.03.13 20:49:00 -
[416]
Edited by: NightmareX on 13/03/2009 20:49:54
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean
Edited by: sophisticatedlimabean on 13/03/2009 20:47:12
Originally by: NightmareX
Edited by: NightmareX on 13/03/2009 20:45:06
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean
Originally by: NightmareX
When i was in TDG, that KB was one of the few killboards we used to post killmails on.
Ofc, i posted all of my kills i had in TDG on the TDG killboard that time. But not sure if that kb still exist or if it have been down for ages now.
http://www.battleclinic.com/eve_online/pk/view/corp-TunDraGon-kills.html
Yeah, try and find my name in those 4k+ kills.
Hell, TDG had way more than 4k kills just after 1-2 months the time i was in TDG.
The kills shown from TDG on BC are from 2004-2008..........
But then answer me this, why is not my killmails there then?.
There should at least be 200 killmails in total from me that are on the TDG killboard, if it still exist.
When i got 92 kills within 2 hours, i for sure have over 200 kills the whole time i was in that corp.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
JadeMako
Aliastra
|
Posted - 2009.03.13 20:52:00 -
[417]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: Marn Prestoc
This is like 2007 with "LASER/AMARR SUCK! BOOST LASERS!" but now with blasters.
Just like Amarr in 2007 there isn't really a major problem with the weapons, its more the ship design/use. Back in 2005/2006 if you suggested full passive tanks people lol'd at you, especially Amarr pilots, but now you get lol'd at for active tanking. Hence if you passvie tank and ignore a bonus and compare it against a ship that uses all its bonuses, of course it will be worse. Its also a problem with the Tier system ccp like, comparing a lower tier to a higher tier will usually be worse unless its a specific role.
It's also the problem with t2 ammo. All the close range ones suck compared to faction, but the long ranged arn't really fair either. It's important to remember that hit quality is linked to hit chance, hence when in falloff you lose damage quickly, which is why optimal is so great.
Scorch only affects Optimal, and its a big 1.5x bonus with a penalty of reducing tracking to 75%, considering the starting amount of optimal thats a huge increase. Now Null affects Optimal by 1.25x and Falloff by 1.25x with the same reduction in tracking to 75%, so with already lower ranges you get a reduced increase compared to scorch because of falloff/hit quality. Barrage gets 1.5x to falloff, which is nothing like 1.5 to optimal on lasers due to hit quality, yet still gets the same reduction in tracking to 75%.
Hence Scorch > Null/Barrage.
If anything needs to be changed with the weapons its T2 ammo, both close range and long variations. If people ignore ship bonuses thats your choice, don't expect to perfom anything like those who use there ship bonuses.
That's a really perceptive post Marn. Damn shame it'll be lost in the flaming. :)
-Liang
QFT
|
JadeMako
Aliastra
|
Posted - 2009.03.13 20:52:00 -
[418]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Can you two stop?
-Liang
Also QFT |
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.03.13 20:53:00 -
[419]
Edited by: NightmareX on 13/03/2009 20:54:57
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Can you two stop?
-Liang
When sophisticatedlimabean have given me a very detailed explanation and very good facts on how Blasters works. Then i will stop.
But it seems that he can't do that because like i have said many times that he doesn't have a single clue on how to use Blasters. Or how they works.
I just want to see his detailed explanation to see if he's doing anything wrong. Not that i need to know now that he's doing anything wrong when we already know he's using them wrong.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Dethis
Caldari
Queens of the Stone Age
Rote Kapelle
|
Posted - 2009.03.13 20:55:00 -
[420]
Originally by: NightmareX
Edited by: NightmareX on 13/03/2009 20:54:03
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Can you two stop?
-Liang
When sophisticatedlimabean have given me a very detailed explanation and very good facts on how Blasters works. Then i will stop.
But it seems that he can't do that because like i have said many times that he doesn't have a single clue on how to use Blasters. Or how they works
I just want to see his detailed explanation to see if he's doing anything wrong. Not that i need to know now that he's dong anything wrong when we already know he's using them wrong.
The fundemental function of blasters is fine, fact is their damage is to low because other long range weapons do pretty much the same DPS without sacrificing travel time trying to catch targets.
Thats the end of the argument because its the truth about blasters.
--------
|
|
|
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.03.13 20:57:00 -
[421]
Edited by: NightmareX on 13/03/2009 20:58:50
Originally by: Dethis
Originally by: NightmareX
Edited by: NightmareX on 13/03/2009 20:54:03
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Can you two stop?
-Liang
When sophisticatedlimabean have given me a very detailed explanation and very good facts on how Blasters works. Then i will stop.
But it seems that he can't do that because like i have said many times that he doesn't have a single clue on how to use Blasters. Or how they works
I just want to see his detailed explanation to see if he's doing anything wrong. Not that i need to know now that he's dong anything wrong when we already know he's using them wrong.
The fundemental function of blasters is fine, fact is their damage is to low because other long range weapons do pretty much the same DPS without sacrificing travel time trying to catch targets.
Thats the end of the argument because its the truth about blasters.
So what your saying, is that Lasers do almost the same DPS / damage as Blasters, well yeah, that's true.
But comparing just DPS / damage with each others is a joke, and it doesn't work. Just take an armor omni tank into the picture.
Then Lasers only do 70% of the damage Blasters do. So your point is?.
Yes, like i have said earlier, Lasers are very good against shield tanked ships. That's something i agree on.
Stop with the DPS comparions. It's just stupid.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Dethis
Caldari
Queens of the Stone Age
Rote Kapelle
|
Posted - 2009.03.13 20:58:00 -
[422]
Originally by: NightmareX
Originally by: Dethis
Originally by: NightmareX
Edited by: NightmareX on 13/03/2009 20:54:03
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Can you two stop?
-Liang
When sophisticatedlimabean have given me a very detailed explanation and very good facts on how Blasters works. Then i will stop.
But it seems that he can't do that because like i have said many times that he doesn't have a single clue on how to use Blasters. Or how they works
I just want to see his detailed explanation to see if he's doing anything wrong. Not that i need to know now that he's dong anything wrong when we already know he's using them wrong.
The fundemental function of blasters is fine, fact is their damage is to low because other long range weapons do pretty much the same DPS without sacrificing travel time trying to catch targets.
Thats the end of the argument because its the truth about blasters.
So what your saying, is that Lasers do almost the dame DPS as Blasters, well yeah, that's true.
But comparing just DPS with each others is a joke, and it doesn't work. Just take an armor omni tank into the picture.
Then Lasers only do 70% of the damage Blasters do.
Stop with the DPS comparions. It's just stupid.
You can't see how its detrimental in a real situation that the blaster has to be 20km closer for "slightly more" damage?
Thats kind of the point of the argument, when blasters get in close they should rip things apart more then anything else, they currently do not
--------
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sophisticatedlimabean
Gallente
Delinquent Habits
|
Posted - 2009.03.13 21:02:00 -
[423]
Edited by: sophisticatedlimabean on 13/03/2009 21:03:47
Edited by: sophisticatedlimabean on 13/03/2009 21:02:53
Originally by: NightmareX
Yeah, try and find my name in those 4k+ kills.
Hell, TDG had way more than 4k kills just after 1-2 months the time i was in TDG.
NightmareX was in TunDraGon from 2006.05.02 13:20 to 2006.05.24 00:33
= 22 days not 1-2 months.
Its in you corp history dude......why continue to lie and exaggerate..
My views may reflect those of my corp/alliance, but if you wanna know for sure ask em for gods sake. |
sophisticatedlimabean
Gallente
Delinquent Habits
|
Posted - 2009.03.13 21:06:00 -
[424]
Originally by: NightmareX
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Can you two stop?
-Liang
When sophisticatedlimabean have given me a very detailed explanation and very good facts on how Blasters works. Then i will stop.
You have been given plenty, and they all showed that blasters do not work particularly well on TQ THE PROBLEM IS YOU DO NOT HAVE THE XP TO UNDERSTAND THE PROBLEM.
My views may reflect those of my corp/alliance, but if you wanna know for sure ask em for gods sake. |
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.03.13 21:07:00 -
[425]
Edited by: NightmareX on 13/03/2009 21:11:27
Originally by: Dethis
You can't see how its detrimental in a real situation that the blaster has to be 20km closer for "slightly more" damage?
Thats kind of the point of the argument, when blasters get in close they should rip things apart more then anything else, they currently do not
Yes, Blasters do do more damage than Lasers. And because of the resists on the omni tanks, then armor ships with an omni tank can fly more around and take damage from lasers for a longer time than Amarr BS'es can take fire from a Gallente BS with Blasters.
Yes Amarr BS'es have more EHP to counter that up.
You just see my 1x LAR II, 1x DC II, 2x EANM II's, 1x 1600mm Plate & 1x Gyrostab II fitted Tempest, i tank any Amarr BS'es all day long in my Tempest with that setup, as long i have cap ofc.
But a Tempest have 10% higher base resist on EM than a Mega have. So it will actually be 20% better EM resist if you see it that way.
And still, a Tempest have the crappiest tank of all BS'es ingame.
So because of that, Blaster BS'es can MWD to the Amarr ships and then just shoot away and do the thing the Blasters are supposed to do, be best at doing DPS at close range.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.03.13 21:10:00 -
[426]
Edited by: NightmareX on 13/03/2009 21:12:02
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean
Originally by: NightmareX
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Can you two stop?
-Liang
When sophisticatedlimabean have given me a very detailed explanation and very good facts on how Blasters works. Then i will stop.
You have been given plenty, and they all showed that blasters do not work particularly well on TQ THE PROBLEM IS YOU DO NOT HAVE THE XP TO UNDERSTAND THE PROBLEM.
Ok, then fine. Give me the explanation again, so i can be sure that what you said was right.
I cannot say it's true before you have written the explanations down again. I don't want to look through all of your whines to just look after something that you have said about Blasters, that also might not be an explanation at all.
So please, give me the explanation again.
Before you have done that, STFU.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
sophisticatedlimabean
Gallente
Delinquent Habits
|
Posted - 2009.03.13 21:16:00 -
[427]
Originally by: NightmareX
Yes, Blasters do do more damage than Lasers. And because of the resists on the omni tanks, then armor ships with an omni tank can fly more around and take damage from lasers for a longer time than Amarr BS'es can take fire from a Gallente BS with Blasters.
Yes Amarr BS'es have more EHP to counter that up.
You just see my 1x LAR II, 1x DC II, 2x EANM II's, 1x 1600mm Plate & 1x Gyrostab II fitted Tempest, i tank any Amarr BS'es all day long in my Tempest with that setup, as long i have cap ofc.
But a Tempest have 10% higher base resist on EM than a Mega have. So it will actually be 20% better EM resist if you see it that way.
And still, a Tempest have the crappiest tank of all BS'es ingame.
So because of that, Blaster BS'es can MWD to the Amarr ships and then just shoot away and do the thing the Blasters are supposed to do, be best at doing DPS at close range.
The very fact that you post such absurd 1 v 1 stat drivel when we are discussing BS close range gang combat makes my point better than any thing i can say or post.
My views may reflect those of my corp/alliance, but if you wanna know for sure ask em for gods sake. |
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.03.13 21:16:00 -
[428]
Originally by: NightmareX
Edited by: NightmareX on 13/03/2009 21:12:02
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean
Originally by: NightmareX
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Can you two stop?
-Liang
When sophisticatedlimabean have given me a very detailed explanation and very good facts on how Blasters works. Then i will stop.
You have been given plenty, and they all showed that blasters do not work particularly well on TQ THE PROBLEM IS YOU DO NOT HAVE THE XP TO UNDERSTAND THE PROBLEM.
Ok, then fine. Give me the explanation again, so i can be sure that what you said was right.
I cannot say it's true before you have written the explanations down again. I don't want to look through all of your whines to just look after something that you have said about Blasters, that also might not be an explanation at all.
So please, give me the explanation again.
Before you have done that, STFU.
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean
Edited by: sophisticatedlimabean on 13/03/2009 21:07:44
Originally by: NightmareX
Yeah, try and find my name in those 4k+ kills.
Hell, TDG had way more than 4k kills just after 1-2 months the time i was in TDG.
NightmareX was in TunDraGon from 2006.05.02 13:20 to 2006.05.24 00:33
= 22 days not 1-2 months.
Its in you corp history dude......why continue to lie and exaggerate..
Jesus, your extremely good to read wrong when we write something.
What did i say there?. Yes i said that TDG had way more than 4k kills in 1-2 months [u]WHEN I WAS IN TDG[/u].
When = The same time as i was in TDG.
I was watching their killboard long long time after i left them because of innactivity. Yes i had RL there to heh.
Learn to read.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Forumz Warrior
|
Posted - 2009.03.13 21:24:00 -
[429]
Hey is Mike Hunt here? Has anyone seen Mike Hunt?
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Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Blackguard Coalition
|
Posted - 2009.03.13 21:25:00 -
[430]
Seriously guys - this has got to be the most pathetic display I've seen on Eve-O. Stop. Really.
-Liang
--
Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
www.kwikdeath.org |
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sophisticatedlimabean
Gallente
Delinquent Habits
|
Posted - 2009.03.13 21:28:00 -
[431]
Originally by: NightmareX
LOL, where did i say here that this was sniping?.
Where do i say you said anything about sniping?...
Originally by: NightmareX
Jesus christ man. GIVE US SOME DAMN FACTS AND EXPLANATION IF YOU MEAN I'M WRONG.
Do you honestly need me to tell you why you ranting on about your tempest in a 1 v 1 fight on sissi against a solo laser ship has no relevance in a thread about BLASTERS IN GANG COMBAT ON TQ.......
My views may reflect those of my corp/alliance, but if you wanna know for sure ask em for gods sake. |
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.03.13 21:36:00 -
[432]
Edited by: NightmareX on 13/03/2009 21:36:50
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean
Originally by: NightmareX
LOL, where did i say here that this was sniping?.
Where do i say you said anything about sniping?...
So what do you mean by saying this then?.
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean
The very fact that you post such absurd 1 v 1 stat drivel when we are discussing BS close range gang combat makes my point better than any thing i can say or post.
Bitter much when you can't even remember what you said your self like 1-2 posts earlier?.
And by the way, it was not a comparsion in 1 vs 1 fight, i was talking about combat in general.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Fistme
|
Posted - 2009.03.13 21:41:00 -
[433]
wtb 2x perma forum bans.
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sophisticatedlimabean
Gallente
Delinquent Habits
|
Posted - 2009.03.13 21:43:00 -
[434]
Edited by: sophisticatedlimabean on 13/03/2009 21:46:14
Edited by: sophisticatedlimabean on 13/03/2009 21:44:39
Originally by: NightmareX
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean
Originally by: NightmareX
LOL, where did i say here that this was sniping?.
Where do i say you said anything about sniping?...
So what do you mean by saying this then?.
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean
The very fact that you post such absurd 1 v 1 stat drivel when we are discussing BS close range gang combat makes my point better than any thing i can say or post.
Im still looking for the post that says you were talking about sniping with that pest fit.......
Maybe you should read better and emo troll less.
Originally by: NightmareX
And by the way, it was not a comparsion in 1 vs 1 fight in that reply either, i was talking about combat in general.
DMG types are much less important in gang combat than they are in 1 v 1 due to the sheer amount of DPS multiple BS can dish out on a single target.
TQ pvpers understand that sissi warriors obviously do not....
My views may reflect those of my corp/alliance, but if you wanna know for sure ask em for gods sake. |
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.03.13 21:48:00 -
[435]
Edited by: NightmareX on 13/03/2009 21:54:02
Originally by: Fistme
wtb 2x perma forum bans.
Hey, i'm just trying to prove some guys here that if you use Blasters right, they are working perfectly fine.
But you know, the cry babys must cry at everything, so they are also in this topic.
I don't care if i get a ban here, because if i do, then sophisticatedlimabean will also get it.
I don't know how many times i have proven that sophisticatedlimabean is lying. The thing about my kilmails is a good example on why he is lying.
I have given explanations on everything i have said about Blasters, and i have given the reason why Battleclinic sucks when it's about killmails etc.
But what have sophisticatedlimabean done?, nothing more than whining.
All he's saying is bawwwww, i failed to use Blasters right and Blasters didn't work good at all then and then it means Blasters sucks and lasers are much much better than Blasters because Lasers is better than Blasters at the range he was at that time.
He doesn't even give en explanation on what kind of gang, what kind of ships they was using, what kind of setups they was using, and where they was fighting etc etc.
You get my point now why i'm doing all to tell that Blasters are fine until i'm proven wrong?.
I know many that mean the same as me when it's about using Blasters right, that they are best in close range fights.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.03.13 21:52:00 -
[436]
Edited by: NightmareX on 13/03/2009 21:52:23
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean
Im still looking for the post that says you were talking about sniping with that pest fit.......
Maybe you should read better and emo troll less.
Originally by: NightmareX
And by the way, it was not a comparsion in 1 vs 1 fight in that reply either, i was talking about combat in general.
DMG types are much less important in gang combat than they are in 1 v 1 due to the sheer amount of DPS multiple BS can dish out on a single target.
TQ pvpers understand that sissi warriors obviously do not....
To the first thing.
Why did you said this was about close combat then, when it clearly was about close combat then?. There wasn't really a point to say it was for close combat when i was talking about close combat.
And now to the 2nd thing.
Damage types are more important than you think in gang combats. The more resists you have, the longer you are going to be alive, and the more resists you have, the more the chances are that other gang mates can have the time to lock you and rep you if they are RR fitted before you goes into hull.
Things like this you should know. But i don't know, you seems to be in a totally different PVP world than many are in.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
sophisticatedlimabean
Gallente
Delinquent Habits
|
Posted - 2009.03.13 21:54:00 -
[437]
Originally by: NightmareX
Originally by: Fistme
wtb 2x perma forum bans.
I got caught lying about my experience and kills and look stupid....
Yup.
My views may reflect those of my corp/alliance, but if you wanna know for sure ask em for gods sake. |
Cohkka
Celestial Apocalypse
|
Posted - 2009.03.13 21:55:00 -
[438]
You're not proving anything, you're trolling EVERY thread remotely touching the topic of ACs/Blasters, your ban is long overdue. So is bean's.
Don't speak english, just F5, F5, F5... |
sophisticatedlimabean
Gallente
Delinquent Habits
|
Posted - 2009.03.13 21:58:00 -
[439]
Originally by: NightmareX
To the first thing.
Why did you said this was about close combat then, when it clearly was about close combat then?. There wasn't really a point to say it was for close combat when i was talking about close combat.
And you got that i was saying you were talking about you pest having a sniper fit just cos i posted a clear description about the topic in question?..
You were emo trolling and exaggerating cos you have nothing else.
Originally by: NightmareX
Damage types are more important than you think in gang combats. The more resists you have, the longer you are going to be alive, and the more resists you have, the more the chances are that other gang mates can have the time to lock you and rep you if they are RR fitted before you goes into hull.
EHP helps more with RR in gang combat than dmg types do and who has the best EHP again???........
My views may reflect those of my corp/alliance, but if you wanna know for sure ask em for gods sake. |
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.03.13 21:59:00 -
[440]
Edited by: NightmareX on 13/03/2009 22:03:39
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean
Originally by: NightmareX
Originally by: Fistme
wtb 2x perma forum bans.
I got caught lying about my experience and kills and look stupid....
Yup.
Oh look, a yup was a very good explanation on why Blasters sucks.
Explanation accepted now.
That was the best explanation i have ever seen. Damn.
I hope you feel proud now.
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean
EHP helps more with RR in gang combat than dmg types do and who has the best EHP again???........
Hahaha, the resists is as much important as EHP.
If you have a high resist, then it counter up to the EHP bonuses Amarr BS'es have.
But then, the EHP bonuses Amarr BS'es have is not so much better than what Gallente BS'es have anyways, so it doesn't have so much to say.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
|
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sophisticatedlimabean
Gallente
Delinquent Habits
|
Posted - 2009.03.13 22:00:00 -
[441]
Originally by: NightmareX
worthless emo post
On topic content or stfu.
My views may reflect those of my corp/alliance, but if you wanna know for sure ask em for gods sake. |
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.03.13 22:03:00 -
[442]
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean
Originally by: NightmareX
worthless emo post
On topic content or stfu.
Are you any more on topic huh?.
Don't tell others to be on topic when your one of the best here to take topics off topic your self.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
sophisticatedlimabean
Gallente
Delinquent Habits
|
Posted - 2009.03.13 22:04:00 -
[443]
Originally by: NightmareX
troll
On topic content or stfu.
My views may reflect those of my corp/alliance, but if you wanna know for sure ask em for gods sake. |
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.03.13 22:04:00 -
[444]
Edited by: NightmareX on 13/03/2009 22:04:26
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean
Originally by: NightmareX
troll
On topic content or stfu.
Are you any more on topic with that reply?.
Oh noes, not the spamming again. I think i made some one bitter again.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
sophisticatedlimabean
Gallente
Delinquent Habits
|
Posted - 2009.03.13 22:06:00 -
[445]
Originally by: NightmareX
yet more troll
On topic content or stfu.
My views may reflect those of my corp/alliance, but if you wanna know for sure ask em for gods sake. |
Fistme
|
Posted - 2009.03.13 22:06:00 -
[446]
Originally by: NightmareX
Edited by: NightmareX on 13/03/2009 21:54:02
Originally by: Fistme
wtb 2x perma forum bans.
Hey, i'm just trying to prove some guys here that if you use Blasters right, they are working perfectly fine.
But you know, the cry babys must cry at everything, so they are also in this topic.
I don't care if i get a ban here, because if i do, then sophisticatedlimabean will also get it.
I don't know how many times i have proven that sophisticatedlimabean is lying. The thing about my kilmails is a good example on why he is lying.
I have given explanations on everything i have said about Blasters, and i have given the reason why Battleclinic sucks when it's about killmails etc.
But what have sophisticatedlimabean done?, nothing more than whining.
All he's saying is bawwwww, i failed to use Blasters right and Blasters didn't work good at all then and then it means Blasters sucks and lasers are much much better than Blasters because Lasers is better than Blasters at the range he was at that time.
He doesn't even give en explanation on what kind of gang, what kind of ships they was using, what kind of setups they was using, and where they was fighting etc etc.
You get my point now why i'm doing all to tell that Blasters are fine until i'm proven wrong?.
I know many that mean the same as me when it's about using Blasters right, that they are best in close range fights.
.... Dude, you're more worried about arguing with a fellow troll than you are about actually debating the issues at hand. What i find even more astounding is that you try and justify you're actions because someone else plays by you're pathetic forum emo trolling rules. Give it a rest, most of the people will now just disagree with you because they don't like the crap that you post, same goes for limabean....
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Marn Prestoc
Minmatar
Queens of the Stone Age
Rote Kapelle
|
Posted - 2009.03.13 22:07:00 -
[447]
Originally by: Goum
Originally by: Marn Prestoc
This is like 2007 with "LASER/AMARR SUCK! BOOST LASERS!" but now with blasters.
No, its not. There were legitimate problems with sub-battleships. If you said "it was like laser battleship whines" you would be correct, because there was nothing wrong with laser battleships (at all) in 2007 just as there is nothing wrong with blasterships today.
Oh I agree, but I remember (so could be wrong) the majority of the topics/posts on here were to boost lasers. We both agreed it was the weak amarr ships that needed looking at and not just boosting lasers (yes goum argued against other amarr pilots! omgomgomg). Its the mentality I was comparing, the "sky is falling so more likely to get attention" and the "unless you compare the setup types I say its not realisitc".
Originally by: Goum
Quote:
Just like Amarr in 2007 there isn't really a major problem with the weapons, its more the ship design/use.
Not really, no. Unless you're saying its a problem with people not understanding how the ships ought to be used.
Thats kinda what i'm saying. Design part was more about the tier system and how it complicates balancing through cost (which is minimized through insurance).
Originally by: Goum
Quote:
Hence Scorch > Null/Barrage.
If anything needs to be changed with the weapons its T2 ammo, both close range and long variations. If people ignore ship bonuses thats your choice, don't expect to perfom anything like those who use there ship bonuses.
You're ignoring other considerations when you're making your determinations, from the 91% EM bias on scorch to the 30% tracking advantage on barrage and hail. The bonuses themselves mean nothing unless they're applied to the weapons and ships they go on and when that happens, the lower tracking on lasers does mean that hit quality complaints are more or less unfounded.
If you reduced the value of scorch, not only would you threaten to kill current laser battleships, but you would do the same to all sub-bs variants. Its not a reasonable proposition.
Didn't ignore them, I just think damage types have there particular advantages vs different targets. vs tech 1 ship yes EM is weaker than others, so for BS vs BS fights the lasers damage is greatly reduced, but I think MF is used more than Scorch in those fights so not as bad as it could be. Vs tech 2 ships EM is probably the best damage type (obviously not vs minmatar) before considering smaller ships trying to keep range/run away ect.
The main thing for me is the overlapping between Null and Barrage vs MF before Pulse switch to Scorch. As you know, the further away you get the less effect transversal has, but for Null and Barrage the further you get away the more damage you lose due to falloff hit quality/hit chance.
I never made any proposals, just the area that should be looked at. For example you could have different levels of bonuses at each ship size. This would help balance an issue/point I remember you raising about how range is more important the slower the ship speeds. Just for others; 5km/s frig only takes 2 sec to cover 10km range difference, 2km cruiser takes 5 secs to cover 10km difference, 1km bs takes 10 secs to cover 10km difference, hence range has more value when speeds are lower before looking at stuff like keeping range in a quicker ship.
-
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.03.13 22:15:00 -
[448]
Edited by: NightmareX on 13/03/2009 22:21:21
Originally by: Fistme
.... Dude, you're more worried about arguing with a fellow troll than you are about actually debating the issues at hand. What i find even more astounding is that you try and justify you're actions because someone else plays by you're pathetic forum emo trolling rules. Give it a rest, most of the people will now just disagree with you because they don't like the crap that you post, same goes for limabean....
Whatever. I don't care if i have given my explanations to a troll or to any others in this topic.
My explanation and reasons on why Blasters are working as they are meant to work is given here anyways.
And i have also tried to get sophisticatedlimabean to prove me wrong about Blasters, but he haven't done it.
And because he can't prove me wrong, yet, then i will stay on what i have always said, that Blasters are working pretty good at what they are designed to do.
Nothing more to say about that.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Goumindong
Amarr
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.03.14 00:46:00 -
[449]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Goum, EM is not a bad damage type anymore. Not by a long shot. Also, Scorch M is also far superior to Null/Barrage M (not that I don't swear by my Barrage M... but it's only because it's the least sucky ammo we have).
Scorch could stand a smallish nerf across the board and lasers would still be uber.
-Liang
No, it really is. It gets over-represented on killmails, and its not really that much stronger than anything else against tech 2 ships. [There is only one "real" imbalance in that gallente t2 are weaker than they ought to be vs Amarr t2, but i don't think that that really makes much of a difference considering the other factors and its largely a problem with the other attributes of the Deimos]. Comparative damage still matters when you're flying in gangs
If you reduced the value of scorch you would undue all the good that was done for the sub-bs ships that don't have optimal bonuses. Which is every single one except the Zealot. And the Zealot would only still be quality because you're likely to fit it with beams. harbinger? No point, fly a Hurricane. Omen? No point, fly a rupture. Crusader? Fly a tackle inty or if you want to do DPS, a taranis or claw.
No other weapon system is so useless without tech 2 ammo as pulse lasers, at only 25% optimal they would almost not be worth using.
Originally by: Cohkka
You're not proving anything, you're trolling EVERY thread remotely touching the topic of ACs/Blasters, your ban is long overdue. So is bean's.
Bean already has one(or he would be posting with his alt Murina). Or at least one that has been sufficiently long to get him posting with his main.
Originally by: Marn Prestoc
but I think MF is used more than Scorch in those fights so not as bad as it could be
Well, there is the rub. If MF is being used more in those fights then the work for tracking and DPS shows that there really is quite a small difference in advantage at those ranges. At 15km, blasters start taking over in DPS very fast against lasers, depending on the fit and target between 1 to 6km.
Is that such a hurdle to overcome that Blasters or blaster ships need to be buffed?
Quote:
Thats kinda what i'm saying. Design part was more about the tier system and how it complicates balancing through cost (which is minimized through insurance).
The problems of tier are an entire other bag, and while some of them do create problems that do have an effect on the blaster ships effectiveness(specifically the increased signature size of larger ships weighs unfairly upon the hyperion and Deimos) they are least pronounced on the battleship level even if the Hyperion is better in every way as a blaster ship over the Megathron.
Quote:
The main thing for me is the overlapping between Null and Barrage vs MF before Pulse switch to Scorch. As you know, the further away you get the less effect transversal has, but for Null and Barrage the further you get away the more damage you lose due to falloff hit quality/hit chance.
Which is only an issue if you think that null and barrage are supposed to put you into the area that scorch operates. It certainly puts you into the area that MF operates in, and quite well.
If you're saying that there is a problem in the ranges they operate in, i am not sure i can agree with you there, since they suffer less on the lower end of operation.
Though i could understand a tracking reduction to scorch.
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ChalSto
LOCKDOWN.
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.03.14 01:26:00 -
[450]
Edited by: ChalSto on 14/03/2009 01:26:56
Originally by: NightmareX
own opinion about blaster-weapon system
If you would actually join FoE gangs on TQ you might have noticed that we
have how many blasterships in gangs?
Exact.
ZERO
Thats why?
Right!
Becouse they suck in gang-warefare and are solo-only/fun-weapons atm. Nothing else.
And the only thing, that keept blasterships alive all these years, is not the
weapon-system, or the concept behind it.....nope....it was ONLY the PLAYER behind the
char.
With Quantum-Rise Patch we have finaly reached the point, where blasterships have no
role to fill in (except fanatasy 1on1s). And I think I¦m someone, who knows what he¦s
doing.
The risk vs reward concept is totaly broken for blasters.
Originally by: Agmar
-----------------------------------------------
"The North is so ghey that even the NPCs fly ravens." |
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Fistme
|
Posted - 2009.03.14 01:27:00 -
[451]
Now I understand that when we talk about Blasters people generally focus on BS class Blasters and the ships they are ideally fit on. How do you think the t1 and t2 medium blaster ships hold up against their competition?
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.03.14 01:54:00 -
[452]
Edited by: NightmareX on 14/03/2009 01:54:29
Originally by: ChalSto
Edited by: ChalSto on 14/03/2009 01:26:56
Originally by: NightmareX
own opinion about blaster-weapon system
If you would actually join FoE gangs on TQ you might have noticed that we
have how many blasterships in gangs?
Exact.
ZERO
Thats why?
Right!
Becouse they suck in gang-warefare and are solo-only/fun-weapons atm. Nothing else.
And the only thing, that keept blasterships alive all these years, is not the
weapon-system, or the concept behind it.....nope....it was ONLY the PLAYER behind the
char.
With Quantum-Rise Patch we have finaly reached the point, where blasterships have no
role to fill in (except fanatasy 1on1s). And I think I¦m someone, who knows what he¦s
doing.
The risk vs reward concept is totaly broken for blasters.
I'm not saying that Blaster ships is most used or anything like that, i'm just saying Blasters are working as they should.
Oh, the reason we don't use Blaster Mega's or Blaster Domi's so much is more because of our play style.
I just looked at our killboard, or Corp 1 kb. And for me, it looks like we are mostly doing HAC's & Recon's gangs and some sniping. So there is no suprise that we don't use Blasters much.
Ofc, someone is using a Blaster Mega here and there in some small gangs around where we are. I see all from several Mega's, some Navy Mega's and some Kronoses to that are used. So they are still used by us, but not much because of our play style.
Oh, i'm logged on EVE now BTW LOL. Wont be logged on for long though, because i have to go to bed soonÖ.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Marn Prestoc
Minmatar
Queens of the Stone Age
Rote Kapelle
|
Posted - 2009.03.14 03:22:00 -
[453]
Edited by: Marn Prestoc on 14/03/2009 03:22:47
Originally by: Goumindong
Yeah, itÆs that 15km-25km area where the near-instant ammo change (especially with grouped weapons) really helps when switching between MF and Scorch to minimize damage reduction. Blasters / ACÆs have to decide then stick with it or wait for the reload. Just to be clear though, I have no problem with the range of the weapons. YouÆve seen my other posts to know how I feel about falloff, the drop in damage due to hit quality is to steep.
Your final sentence is pretty much what I would do, increase the tracking penalty of scorch and/or reduce the penalty on null/barrage. The close range weapons shouldnÆt have the same tracking penalty when the closer you are the greater the effect of transversal.
Think its about time they finally sorted out t2 ammo, taken enough tries. Tracking pen on close range ammos then nerf webs so tracking has more effect lol, nearly as bad as speed penalty per turret for hail lol.
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The Djego
Minmatar
merovinger inc
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Posted - 2009.03.14 04:20:00 -
[454]
Originally by: Goumindong
Originally by: Marn Prestoc
but I think MF is used more than Scorch in those fights so not as bad as it could be
Well, there is the rub. If MF is being used more in those fights then the work for tracking and DPS shows that there really is quite a small difference in advantage at those ranges. At 15km, blasters start taking over in DPS very fast against lasers, depending on the fit and target between 1 to 6km.
AN MFs is used more in small Gang(where Blaster Ships play her role). Yes Blaster Ships taking over in DPS once they get down to sub 10km for BS(you still don¦t have any kind of real performance out of this range without Null).
+ a fair amout of more DPS(what isn¦t ength this days compared to the EHP/Tank advantages)
+ better Damage types vs T1 Onmi Tanks
+ better Tracking, what becomes still a huge Problem at your combat range
- you need to get in this range, exactly this range that is sudden death to you if you can¦t outgank or outlast your target(in small scale)
- you need 10 Seconds to switch amno, decide in the beginning and act quick, Amno switching and playing with range is the dead of ships with the smaller range in most of the cases
- within your actual Combat Range you highly affected by Webs/Scrams and need at least the Web in return(more realistic a Neut to) to have a chance of playing out your advantage at all(holding down a Target with the 60% Web is a joke)
- EHP on your ship is most of the time lower than on the other ship, without a clear DPS advantage you will loose even if you do anything right. Talking about 10-30% here as it is atm leaving you very deep into structure if the combat roles the way you want today agaisnt simlar fitted and skilled ships)
- MWD, Weapons and Tackle reducing your Cap very quick(actualy even faster than on most Amarr Ships) so time playes against you(together with the EHP)
- you are the most unflexible ship in Gangs, since you allready got the lowest effective Combat Range(by fare)
Originally by: Goumindong
Is that such a hurdle to overcome that Blasters or blaster ships need to be buffed?
Yes, it is.
Im not talking about fancy active tanks that get slaugtered by Neuts and Falcons in small Scale in many actual fights.
Im not talking about my max skilled + Implants + expensive Fittings solo fittings.
Im talking about the general Blaster ship and his surviably against even odds, taking real advantages out of forcing other ships to her range.
The Blaster ship by your design is preaty much pointless in practical gameplay. You chose all the disadvantages like heavy Cap need, low combat range, moving your ship to a point of no return because it is your combat range, reducing your ability to to switch the targets(range + beeing tackeled by your first target reducing your ability to move your ship to the next) and having Sentry disadvantage in her primary field of use most of the time(what reduces the Drone DPS by a very huge amount).
For what exactly? Beeing barly able to take out other ships(by higher DPS)? Stating yourself as superior solo ship because you can mix DPS\Gank\Speed to usefull Levels, and even fail against more gang based ships if you do a little mistake or got multiple Tackle or a Scam on you? In a Eve full of Falcons that **** you up anyway and a Combat range that put more disavantages on you than advantages?
With the 60% Web Blaster Ships are a joke, they wasn¦t even terrible powerfull before(since Rigs/HP Boost/Resist Nerf/Torp Boost). I prefere shooting smaller stuff out of web Range with Null instead on getting in my actual range, this is a very clear sign that the concept itself is actualy broken.
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Nerf Tank - Boost Gank!
Originally by: Amantus
Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
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Cohkka
Celestial Apocalypse
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Posted - 2009.03.14 04:34:00 -
[455]
Originally by: Goumindong
If you're saying that there is a problem in the ranges they operate in, i am not sure i can agree with you there, since they suffer less on the lower end of operation.
Though i could understand a tracking reduction to scorch.
But this is imo the entire point the discussion is based around. As a Blasterpilot in a small sized BS gang of 10 BS, you can get lucky and match the damage output over time of a Geddon/Baddon. This requires you to a) fit Neutrons (mainly because of range, the DPS increase alone isn't worth it), which don't work at all on the supposed king of blasters, the Hype, if you're not completly throwing away a bonus, b) get within about 6km of your target.
Now a) is easily solveable, the Hype needs some more pg so it can fit some decent tank. It doesn't have the lowslots to make it a good one, but it'll be enough if it can atleast make it fit. The situation right now is the following: You fit 8 Neutrons, an MWD and then you're left with a bit over 1k pg for a tank and a heavy cap booster with perfect fitting skills... and depending on the specific fitting you can run into CPU problems, too.
b) is gun related. While I agree that guns should be distictive to their races, there needs to be more of a benefit for blasters because they have to fight within web/scram range. They receive more damage than any other ship. Getting called primary is leading to certain death (and you'll get called early). You're highly vulnerable to webs/scramblers making mobility your biggest liability. RR in general is out of question because you'll be too far away from most of your buddys.
As of right now there is no reason to fly a Hype over an Abaddon in small engagements. The risk in an engagement is a few times higher. For a mere 17% gain in raw DPS, you get 1/4 of the max range, 31% less EHP (on armor alone it's actually 43%, the diffrence is in the shields, lol), and less flexability.
And I've said it once here and I'll say it again: Scorch loaded MP lasers outdamage any longrange gun up to their max range of 45km. It's 18% for Rails at 36km and the gap grows even bigger up to 24% at 45km (if you have the right ammo, realistic figures would be worse). How is that justified?
Don't speak english, just F5, F5, F5... |
prodalt
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Posted - 2009.03.14 06:29:00 -
[456]
Originally by: Cohkka
The situation right now is the following: You fit 8 Neutrons, an MWD and then you're left with a bit over 1k pg for a tank and a heavy cap booster with perfect fitting skills..
What do you need a heavy cap booster for to power Blasters without a repair unit? Why should you be able to fit neutrons and a repair unit?
The fitting is such for the Hyperion that it makes the single best repping battleship in the game while being strictly superior to the Megathron as a passive tanked neutron gank battleship.
Quote:
Getting called primary is leading to certain death (and you'll get called early).
This is hilarious, because its you admitting that there is no problem with the ship. People will not primary you if you are going to do less DPS per EHP compared to another ship, they will shoot you after the more dangerous ship. When they figure your DPS they will take into account the amount of time it will take you to get between each target. If you're saying that blaster ships are going to be primary then you're strictly rejecting the argument that there is a problem with the time it takes for blaster ships to get between targets.
Quote:
RR in general is out of question because you'll be too far away from most of your buddys
Only if the target is far away and what does everyone do the first thing in an RR fight? They crash on the gate...(P.S. the best RR ship in the game is the Dominix)
Quote:
You're highly vulnerable to webs/scramblers making mobility your biggest liability
Any any ship that can scram or web you, you can scram and web right back.
Quote:
Scorch loaded MP lasers outdamage any longrange gun up to their max range of 45km. It's 18% for Rails at 36km and the gap grows even bigger up to 24% at 45km (if you have the right ammo, realistic figures would be worse). How is that justified?
Maybe because long range guns will hit 120km without any range modifiers and Scorch loaded MP lasers will not? Null loaded Neutron blasters outdamage any long range gun up to their max range of 11km. Its [who cares] percent at 11km!!!
Maybe its ecause if long range weapons were beating scorch loaded MP pulse lasers there wouldn't be any reason to use MP lasers? You would just use long range fit megathrons or abaddons instead.
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prodalt
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Posted - 2009.03.14 06:41:00 -
[457]
Fake edit: abve is me. Did it again.
Originally by: Marn Prestoc
The close range weapons shouldnÆt have the same tracking penalty when the closer you are the greater the effect of transversal.
Penalty is irrelevant, only the final outcome is relevant.
Quote:
Think its about time they finally sorted out t2 ammo, taken enough tries. Tracking pen on close range ammos then nerf webs so tracking has more effect lol, nearly as bad as speed penalty per turret for hail lol
Why should tech 2 ammo be used as often as tech 1? If its for shooting at things larger than you then the penalty is irrelevant except in that it keeps tech 1 short range guns competitive with faction. Should we really have "tech 2 or go home" again?
Originally by: The Djego
- you need to get in this range, exactly this range that is sudden death to you if you can¦t outgank or outlast your target(in small scale)
So is any range in any fight where you're going to be tackled. Its not like abaddons have special "you are not longer tackled in a fight where you aren't better than the other guy" module.
Quote:
- within your actual Combat Range you highly affected by Webs/Scrams and need at least the Web in return(more realistic a Neut to) to have a chance of playing out your advantage at all(holding down a Target with the 60% Web is a joke)
If you're highly effected, then so are they. Conversely, if you're not highly effected, so they are not. Just as amarr ships do not have magical "you're not tackled anymore modules" they don't have "you're tackled at much longer ranges than the other guy is" modules either.
Quote:
EHP on your ship is most of the time lower than on the other ship, without a clear DPS advantage you will loose even if you do anything right. Talking about 10-30% here as it is atm leaving you very deep into structure if the combat roles the way you want today agaisnt simlar fitted and skilled ships)
EHP only matters in conjunction with DPS, they're equally important. Stop pretending that EHP is more important when you have less of it and DPS isn't.
P.S. fit an active tank, a single rep on a Hyperion puts you above an Abaddon up to 1400 incoming DPS. It will also stay stable with like 3-4 heavy neuts on it. At which point the DPS will kill you before the neuts would anyway.
Quote:
- MWD, Weapons and Tackle reducing your Cap very quick(actualy even faster than on most Amarr Ships) so time playes against you(together with the EHP)
No, it does not. You may, may, need 3 cycles of your mwd. Assuming the Abaddon does not need any, its Cap use is now DOUBLE yours with its guns alone once you turn your MWD off. And it has to run its guns the entire fight. Running the guns on an Abaddon is like turning on your MWD and not turning it off.
Quote:
Im not talking about fancy active tanks that get slaugtered by Neuts and Falcons in small Scale in many actual fights.
Neither do Amarr have magical "no longer jammed by falcon" modules. And in fact, have a harder time not being jammed by falcons than the ships with A: Strong sensor strength, and/or B:more med slots to fit ECCM.
And active tanks do not get slaughtered by Neuts, the only time they would be is when the DPS from the ships neuting you would put kill you before the neuts would drop your tank.
Unless you're saying that its "a bunch of small ships" that are killing you, in which case you're making a very strange case that the lower tracking lower med slot slower ship is at a disadvantage
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Goumindong
Amarr
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.03.14 06:42:00 -
[458]
ARRRRRG. Goumindong, post as freaking Goumindong, not as prodalt. Damned forum.
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McCreary075
Gallente
Noir.
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Posted - 2009.03.14 08:11:00 -
[459]
Originally by: prodalt
Quote:
Getting called primary is leading to certain death (and you'll get called early).
This is hilarious, because its you admitting that there is no problem with the ship. People will not primary you if you are going to do less DPS per EHP compared to another ship, they will shoot you after the more dangerous ship. When they figure your DPS they will take into account the amount of time it will take you to get between each target. If you're saying that blaster ships are going to be primary then you're strictly rejecting the argument that there is a problem with the time it takes for blaster ships to get between targets.
Quote:
You're highly vulnerable to webs/scramblers making mobility your biggest liability
Any any ship that can scram or web you, you can scram and web right back.
The reason you are primary is only partly because you are dangerous. They know that generally you have an okay tank, you MUST close into web/scram range, and they know that you are vulnerable to being neuted because your guns generally need a good amount of cap. Basically, they KNOW they can get a kill on a blaster ship if a gang engages them, because he will be within scram/web range.
I love my blaster ships, and I enjoy flying them. My corp also flys small gangs constantly, and we love to primary blaster boats, for the same reasons I gave above.
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Happster
Polaris Project
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Posted - 2009.03.14 11:09:00 -
[460]
This is my view of things....
Blasters = fine!
Lasers = a tiny bit overpowered. A tiny nerf to tracking would fix this.
AC = Need a bit of a change. Give Hail L and EMP L optimal= 6km and AC's are fine too.
Then the guns and ships would all have their area of ruling and guns would be very balanced.
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Happster
Polaris Project
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Posted - 2009.03.14 11:16:00 -
[461]
Originally by: Marn Prestoc
Think its about time they finally sorted out t2 ammo, taken enough tries. Tracking pen on close range ammos then nerf webs so tracking has more effect lol, nearly as bad as speed penalty per turret for hail lol.
For Quake you mean...right?
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Takeshi Yamato
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Posted - 2009.03.14 11:34:00 -
[462]
Quote:
- you need 10 Seconds to switch amno, decide in the beginning and act quick, Amno switching and playing with range is the dead of ships with the smaller range in most of the cases
I always thought that 10 second reload time is too long for smaller ships. It should be 7 seconds for medium and 4 for small turrets or something.
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Dethusan
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2009.03.14 13:01:00 -
[463]
Originally by: Happster
This is my view of things....
Blasters = fine!
Lasers = a tiny bit overpowered. A tiny nerf to tracking would fix this.
AC = Need a bit of a change. Give Hail L and EMP L optimal= 6km and AC's are fine too.
Then the guns and ships would all have their area of ruling and guns would be very balanced.
Blasters have not been fine for a bit now. Flying a blaster ship in a gang is kind of a waste of isk when you could be flying something that will actually contribute more.
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Si vis pacem para bellum |
Happster
Polaris Project
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Posted - 2009.03.14 13:19:00 -
[464]
Originally by: Dethusan
Originally by: Happster
This is my view of things....
Blasters = fine!
Lasers = a tiny bit overpowered. A tiny nerf to tracking would fix this.
AC = Need a bit of a change. Give Hail L and EMP L optimal= 6km and AC's are fine too.
Then the guns and ships would all have their area of ruling and guns would be very balanced.
Blasters have not been fine for a bit now. Flying a blaster ship in a gang is kind of a waste of isk when you could be flying something that will actually contribute more.
With something else you mean Amarr or anything else?
If the last your pretty wrong. If its the first...well, Amarr is kind of long range...
I can fly caldari, minnie and Gallente BS with excelent skills. Usally i fly Mega in rr gangs. Works best out of the 3 races.
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Dethusan
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2009.03.14 13:31:00 -
[465]
Originally by: Happster
Originally by: Dethusan
Originally by: Happster
This is my view of things....
Blasters = fine!
Lasers = a tiny bit overpowered. A tiny nerf to tracking would fix this.
AC = Need a bit of a change. Give Hail L and EMP L optimal= 6km and AC's are fine too.
Then the guns and ships would all have their area of ruling and guns would be very balanced.
Blasters have not been fine for a bit now. Flying a blaster ship in a gang is kind of a waste of isk when you could be flying something that will actually contribute more.
With something else you mean Amarr or anything else?
If the last your pretty wrong. If its the first...well, Amarr is kind of long range...
I can fly caldari, minnie and Gallente BS with excelent skills. Usally i fly Mega in rr gangs. Works best out of the 3 races.
Mega is a decent ship for RR gangs, i am however reffering to everything bigger then a frigate and smaller then a BS.
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Si vis pacem para bellum |
Happster
Polaris Project
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Posted - 2009.03.14 13:37:00 -
[466]
Originally by: Dethusan
Originally by: Happster
Originally by: Dethusan
Originally by: Happster
This is my view of things....
Blasters = fine!
Lasers = a tiny bit overpowered. A tiny nerf to tracking would fix this.
AC = Need a bit of a change. Give Hail L and EMP L optimal= 6km and AC's are fine too.
Then the guns and ships would all have their area of ruling and guns would be very balanced.
Blasters have not been fine for a bit now. Flying a blaster ship in a gang is kind of a waste of isk when you could be flying something that will actually contribute more.
With something else you mean Amarr or anything else?
If the last your pretty wrong. If its the first...well, Amarr is kind of long range...
I can fly caldari, minnie and Gallente BS with excelent skills. Usally i fly Mega in rr gangs. Works best out of the 3 races.
Mega is a decent ship for RR gangs, i am however reffering to everything bigger then a frigate and smaller then a BS.
Point taken
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Ig Neus
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Posted - 2009.03.14 13:48:00 -
[467]
Edited by: Ig Neus on 14/03/2009 13:48:37
Originally by: Dethusan
Mega is a decent ship for RR gangs, i am however reffering to everything bigger then a frigate and smaller then a BS.
Thorax, Vexor, Brutix, Myrmidon, Ishtar all work fine. Deimoss is indeed bad mainly because generally Blasters ships tend to die easily if they get called primary and it is expensive. Astarte does not have a really worst tank than other Command Ships and its damage is superior + it does not have as many problems getting in range to apply it as Battleships do. It is in Battleships that Gallente have a problem compared to Amarr.
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Ad Valorem
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Posted - 2009.03.14 18:45:00 -
[468]
Edited by: Ad Valorem on 14/03/2009 18:50:22
Edited by: Ad Valorem on 14/03/2009 18:49:23
Originally by: Ig Neus
Edited by: Ig Neus on 14/03/2009 13:48:37
Originally by: Dethusan
Mega is a decent ship for RR gangs, i am however reffering to everything bigger then a frigate and smaller then a BS.
Thorax, Vexor, Brutix, Myrmidon, Ishtar all work fine. .
Of those 5 ships only 2 are blaster ships. The real problem however is imo with large blasters, not with anything smaller. Large blasters do still work well in very specific circumstances.
The problems appear to be with tracking since the web nerf but as Marn and others have pointed out there are also range and ammo problems which compound this. AND most people are comparing blasters using the Megathron, a ship with a huge tracking bonus.
Personally, as this problem has been evident for a long time and CCP have ignored it, and even some of the more vocal proponents of blasters in this thread don't actually use them on TQ, and because other weapons (I'm looking at you torps and lasers) do so well in the current TQ environment, my suggestion to the op is:
YES, YOU SHOULD GIVE UP ON BLASTERS like many others have done.
edit: some spelling and readability |
ChalSto
LOCKDOWN.
Force Of Evil
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Posted - 2009.03.14 19:12:00 -
[469]
Edited by: ChalSto on 14/03/2009 19:16:56
Edited by: ChalSto on 14/03/2009 19:15:18
Originally by: NightmareX
Edited by: NightmareX on 14/03/2009 01:54:29
Originally by: ChalSto
Edited by: ChalSto on 14/03/2009 01:26:56
Originally by: NightmareX
own opinion about blaster-weapon system
The risk vs reward concept is totaly broken for blasters.
I'm not saying that Blaster ships is most used or anything like that, i'm just saying Blasters are working as they should.
.
I dont know how they working as they should. Atm my "superior-close-range-dmg" weapon-system
is outclassed at his workable-range from every other weapon-system out there.
Every other race is just lucky, that the Devs consists of missle-spamming, more content-
adding, I-love-to-insta-hit-the-target, carebears...
And tbh....most of the Devs are more affiliate to Hello-Kitty-Online than EvE-Pvp...
HUGH, I¦ve spoken. And thats my last post and opinion about blasters, becouse its pointless
against all this whinage-carebear-brigade....
Originally by: Agmar
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"The North is so ghey that even the NPCs fly ravens." |
Goumindong
Amarr
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.03.14 19:58:00 -
[470]
Originally by: McCreary075
The reason you are primary is only partly because you are dangerous. They know that generally you have an okay tank, you MUST close into web/scram range, and they know that you are vulnerable to being neuted because your guns generally need a good amount of cap. Basically, they KNOW they can get a kill on a blaster ship if a gang engages them, because he will be within scram/web range.
Please, the difference in a tackle on a blaster ship or a pulse ship is about 0 seconds. If they want to tackle you you will be tackled. And if you're tackled the only way you're getting out is either (A) killing the thing that has tackled you, or (B) jumping through a gate.
Blaster ships are much more likely to be sitting on a gate and have an easier time getting back in all situations.
No, if you're primaried first its because they are afraid of your DPS. Hell, the fact that you have to get closer to them later in the fight means that you're less likely to not have a point on you when its your turn to get shot means that they would be less likely to initially attempt to tackle you since you could not as easily leave the battlefield when things went bad for your side if you were not.
Both of these issues point to the fact that you're being primaried because your DPS is legitimately high. You would never shoot something first that was easy to tackle just because it was easy to tackle. You would shoot it last, because its least likely to get away after all is said and done.
Hell, if you shoot the thing that is likely to get away before its tackled and it leaves the field, you just made the fight that much easier for when you have to shoot the thing that is easier to tackle.
Originally by: Ad Valorem
The problems appear to be with tracking since the web nerf but as Marn and others have pointed out there are also range and ammo problems which compound this. AND most people are comparing blasters using the Megathron, a ship with a huge tracking bonus.
Except its not true. The web nerf hurt ships with lower tracking more than it hurt ships with higher. And blasters have the best tracking of any weapon system in the game. Its more or less tied with autocannons. Ironically you mention the Megathron, because the tracking bonus on the Megathron is actually less valuable to it in reducing transversal when needed and increasing it when needed than the second web that the Hyperion can field. This means that of the two available blasterboats the Megathron tracks the worse.
Originally by: Ig Neus
Deimoss is indeed bad mainly because generally Blasters ships tend to die easily if they get called primary and it is expensive
Blaster ships die just as easily as anything else when they're primaried, they have no special "die easier" quality just as all these other special qualities claimed do not exist. Deimos' are bad because it does not have a strong range bonus and none of the tech 2 cruisers have enough raw hit points to be very valuable in battlecruiser range. I.E. its bad because the falloff bonus it has does not significantly change its role from the Brutix which does more DPS and has more hit points. If you took away the range bonus on the Zealot it would suck just as bad or worse than the Deimos since every time you got in one you would wonder "why am i not flying a harbinger?". There is also an ancillary issue with its signature radius and speed(why is the Zealot smaller and faster? The world will never know), but these are largely unimportant compared to the fact that it doesn't do anything a Brutix doesn't. If you took away the range bonuses of any of the other HACs(Eagle, Cerb, Zealot, Muninn, Vagabond) they would have the same problem.
*Sacrilege doesn't have one, Ishtar's is largely not useful. But there is no armor tanking missile thrower(and the speed nerf really hurt Sacs too) and you can't get 125 cubes in any other non-faction small package for the ishtar.
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Cohkka
Celestial Apocalypse
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Posted - 2009.03.14 20:06:00 -
[471]
Edited by: Cohkka on 14/03/2009 20:06:21
Quote:
What do you need a heavy cap booster for to power Blasters without a repair unit? Why should you be able to fit neutrons and a repair unit?
Because then it would be doing what it's designed to do while makeing it distinct to the Abaddon. Either that or the second bonus needs a change.
Quote:
This is hilarious, because its you admitting that there is no problem with the ship.
The reason for that is because a) you're very close to the enemy gang, you'll go down quick it only makes sense to call the closest ship primary b) they are still removing a good portion of DPS and c) a heavy heavy tackler.
Quote:
Only if the target is far away and what does everyone do the first thing in an RR fight? They crash on the gate...
That's exactly the reason why it's not good for RR gangs. If you believe everything will stay within your 10km bubble, then no you're wrong. Flexable range is essential for RR gangs, you're better of using an RR Rail Mega for thse situations (reducing damagoutput to 1/2).
Quote:
Any any ship that can scram or web you, you can scram and web right back.[/auote]
But not every ship needs its mobility to deal damage.
Quote:
Maybe because long range guns will hit 120km without any range modifiers and Scorch loaded MP lasers will not? Null loaded Neutron blasters outdamage any long range gun up to their max range of 11km. Its [who cares] percent at 11km!!!
Maybe its ecause if long range weapons were beating scorch loaded MP pulse lasers there wouldn't be any reason to use MP lasers? You would just use long range fit megathrons or abaddons instead.
You're exaggerating and you're arguing exactly the point of blaster BS having way too little range... The problem I have with this is that longrange guns with their highest damaging ammo are essentially 2nd rate BS in medium sized gangs even though it should be their domain, for higher ranges a sniper BS suits you better. Reducing scorch range won't hurt Amarr BS, being best from 10km up to 30-35km is still pretty damn good. This would at least help Rails/Artys in medium sized gangs.
Don't speak english, just F5, F5, F5... |
sophisticatedlimabean
Gallente
Delinquent Habits
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Posted - 2009.03.14 20:14:00 -
[472]
Originally by: Goumindong
Except its not true. The web nerf hurt ships with lower tracking more than it hurt ships with higher.
Crap, it hurt the ships that need to operate in web range to do damage most (blasters) not those that operate effectivly far outside it.
Originally by: Goumindong
Blaster ships die just as easily as anything else when they're primaried, they have no special "die easier" quality just as all these other special qualities claimed do not exist.
They die easier because they operate well within tackle and web range, meaning they do not have the option to burn away and warp off if primaried like races with longer ranges have.
My views may reflect those of my corp/alliance, but if you wanna know for sure ask em for gods sake. |
Cohkka
Celestial Apocalypse
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Posted - 2009.03.14 20:24:00 -
[473]
Originally by: Goumindong
Blaster ships die just as easily as anything else when they're primaried, they have no special "die easier" quality just as all these other special qualities claimed do not exist.
No, getting primaried means the Blastership will die faster.
1. You're insatandly and idealy tackled as you have to get close to your enemys (you are slowed down already, so no delay in deceleration).
2. You're in optimal of most enemy ships.
3. You don't have a strong buffer to speak off.
Other ships can use range and/or speed to their advantage, it takes way longer to apply the full damage on these ships. And in both cases you have the possibility to GTFO. And there are those Amarr ships that use a very strong buffer.
Don't speak english, just F5, F5, F5... |
Goumindong
Amarr
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.03.14 20:27:00 -
[474]
Originally by: Cohkka
Because then it would be doing what it's designed to do while makeing it distinct to the Abaddon. Either that or the second bonus needs a change.
Uhhh, no. It does what its designed to do just fine. That you aren't supposed to fit a repping tank with neutrons is part of the design.
Quote:
The reason for that is because a) you're very close to the enemy gang, you'll go down quick it only makes sense to call the closest ship primary b) they are still removing a good portion of DPS and c) a heavy heavy tackler.
You will only go down quick if their ships are designed to shoot at things that are close... Which means they've brought blaster boats... Which is saying "blaster boats are bad because people in blaster boats can shoot at you!". Which is quite funny.
Quote:
That's exactly the reason why it's not good for RR gangs. If you believe everything will stay within your 10km bubble, then no you're wrong. Flexable range is essential for RR gangs, you're better of using an RR Rail Mega for thse situations (reducing damagoutput to 1/2).
Say it with me: Dominix. Not mega, not rails. Dominix. While i do not believe that everything is going to stay within 27km(that is your effective range with an RR fit Mega or Hyperion), i also do not believe that everything will stay outside of that area.
Quote:
But not every ship needs its mobility to deal damage.
So? Ships cannot both scram and web and be outside of their opponents scram and web range, at least not battleships.
Quote:
You're exaggerating and you're arguing exactly the point of blaster BS having way too little range... The problem I have with this is that longrange guns with their highest damaging ammo are essentially 2nd rate BS in medium sized gangs even though it should be their domain, for higher ranges a sniper BS suits you better. Reducing scorch range won't hurt Amarr BS, being best from 10km up to 30-35km is still pretty damn good. This would at least help Rails/Artys in medium sized gangs.
I am exaggerating, its a way to make a point. You see, the point was that pulse ships should be doing more DPS than rail and beam ships within their range just as blaster ships do more damage within their range. Any argument towards where that range should be needs to stand on its own.
Quote:
The problem I have with this is that longrange guns with their highest damaging ammo are essentially 2nd rate BS in medium sized gangs even though it should be their domain
No, because medium sized gangs is the domain of the pulse ships. Then its the domain of long range guns with short range ammo. If medium sized gangs are not the domain of the pulse ship then what domain do they have? Small gangs? Solo? Large gangs? Aha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.
You should be running rail ships in medium sized gangs, but its not because rail ships are supposed to be better than pulse ships its because when you trained gallente you traded off the strength in the medium range for the strength in the short range. You do not get to have the best of both worlds.
Currently, the Megathron is 6% behind the geddon in DPS against armor before drone(both have the same drone bay). Its slightly further behind the Abaddon but with a more prodigious set of drones which let it catch up. You're doing just fine in those ranges so long as you choose to fit for those ranges.
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Goumindong
Amarr
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.03.14 20:34:00 -
[475]
Edited by: Goumindong on 14/03/2009 20:35:15
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean
Crap, it hurt the ships that need to operate in web range to do damage most (blasters) not those that operate effectivly far outside it.
If you're inside web range then they're inside web range.
If you're not getting shot at then you can minimize trasnversal. If you're getting shot at then you maximizing transversal gives you a lower reduction in DPS than they take shooting at you.
So. If you're being shot at then the reduction in DPS agaisnt you is more than the reduction in DPS against them. If you're not being shot at you have the best ability to reduce transversal and increase DPS.
End result: You're wrong, again.
Quote:
They die easier because they operate well within tackle and web range, meaning they do not have the option to burn away and warp off if primaried like races with longer ranges have.
And what ability do amarr ships have to burn away and warp off? They are going to get tackled the same as anything else, they're the slowest and least agile ships in the game to boot. The tanked Abaddons have top speeds around 700m/s. What can not catch that? 28km is an overheated point and they operate within only 45km if they land perfectly. Gate jump in distance is 12km. Assuming both people start optimally, there is no way that either of them would not be tackled if the people attacking you wanted. Except that one of them is sitting 45km from a gate and one is sitting right on it able to jump through and disengage.
Are you saying that the tackled pulse ships are going to burn away and warp out? Seriously? That isn't a joke?
Originally by: Cohkka
1. You're insatandly and idealy tackled as you have to get close to your enemys (you are slowed down already, so no delay in deceleration).
2. You're in optimal of most enemy ships.
3. You don't have a strong buffer to speak off.
1. You're just as tackled as anything else
2. So are other ships unless the other gang is megathrons. See "its funny that you're complaining that a weakness of megathrons is that it can get shot by megathrons" if all the enemy ships are laser ships then all the laser ships are just as much in range.
3. You have as strong a buffer tank as anyone else bar a single ship.
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Ephemeron
North Eastern Swat
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.03.14 20:36:00 -
[476]
Blaster fitting requirements are pretty rough also
In order to have a good tech 2 Tank & Gank blaster boat, you need to choose Ion blasters - not Neutrons. Which means even less optimal, less falloff, and 8% less damage.
On the other hand, Tempest can still have good gank and tank with 800s and Amarr bs can always fit mega pulse
Bottom line is: the damage advantage of blasters is too small to justify all the disadvantages against other short range weapons.
Yes, the blasters are most damaging weapons, yes, a smart player can always find a way to get some kills. But all kidding aside, when it comes to achieving your objectives against non-specific enemy, you gotta choose versatility of other weapons over the minor damage advantage.
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Goumindong
Amarr
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.03.14 20:40:00 -
[477]
Originally by: Ephemeron
On the other hand, Tempest can still have good gank and tank with 800s and Amarr bs can always fit mega pulse
The 6 low slot untank bonused tempest pays a lot for its tank. It won't fit a tank like the Hyperion will.
The Armageddon cannot always fit megapulse. In fact it can barely fit megapulse an MWD and plates. Kinda like the Hyperion fitting neutron blasters except it has a lower base hit points uses more cap and runs out of CPU.
The Apoc can fit a repper, but it doesn't get a damage bonus. The only ship that can fit a rep with Megapulse is the Abaddon whose guns already use more cap than near the entuire suite of a Hyperion.
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Cohkka
Celestial Apocalypse
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Posted - 2009.03.14 20:44:00 -
[478]
Originally by: Goumindong
I am exaggerating, its a way to make a point. You see, the point was that pulse ships should be doing more DPS than rail and beam ships within their range just as blaster ships do more damage within their range. Any argument towards where that range should be needs to stand on its own.
That's a point of perspective. The point was that Rail/Beam/Arty ships should be doing more DPS at their max most damaging range than Pulse. That only means that their range with AM/MF/EMP has to be higher than MPs with scorch, nothing more nothing less...
As you said, you can't have the best of both worlds.
Don't speak english, just F5, F5, F5... |
Ephemeron
North Eastern Swat
Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2009.03.14 20:45:00 -
[479]
Originally by: Goumindong
Originally by: Ephemeron
On the other hand, Tempest can still have good gank and tank with 800s and Amarr bs can always fit mega pulse
The 6 low slot untank bonused tempest pays a lot for its tank. It won't fit a tank like the Hyperion will.
The Armageddon cannot always fit megapulse. In fact it can barely fit megapulse an MWD and plates. Kinda like the Hyperion fitting neutron blasters except it has a lower base hit points uses more cap and runs out of CPU.
The Apoc can fit a repper, but it doesn't get a damage bonus. The only ship that can fit a rep with Megapulse is the Abaddon whose guns already use more cap than near the entuire suite of a Hyperion.
Tempest can fit 2x heavy neuts, with 650s, with a 1600mm plate it would make short work of Hyperion in most cases
Tempest is much more versatile for general PvP than a Hyperion. And what I'm arguing is that this advantage in versatility is clearly more important than a small, 8-16% advantage in raw dps
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Ig Neus
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Posted - 2009.03.14 20:50:00 -
[480]
Goumindong, I agree with most of the points you make. However, if you compare Hyperion with Maelstrom and Rokh (the other two Tier 3 battleships with a bonus to active tanking), you will see that there is a big difference.
I do not have EFT here so I cannot be 100% sure about the Rokh but I am sure that a Maelstrom can fit a really strong active tank with XL Booster and a Cap Injector powering it that can perma run as long as it has Cap Boosters, while fitting its version of neutrons (800mm ACs).
Accepting that ACs and Blasters have their advantages and disadvantages but overall they are "balanced", a Hyperion has serious problems fitting such a tank (not enough low slots) and cannot fit its top class guns on it. I think that a Blaster Rokh has the same fitting capabilities. Do not you see a problem here?
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Takeshi Yamato
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Posted - 2009.03.14 20:54:00 -
[481]
Ac's are downsized. So 800mm AC's would be the equivalent to Ion Blasters.
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Cohkka
Celestial Apocalypse
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Posted - 2009.03.14 20:54:00 -
[482]
Originally by: Goumindong
1. You're just as tackled as anything else
2. So are other ships unless the other gang is megathrons. See "its funny that you're complaining that a weakness of megathrons is that it can get shot by megathrons" if all the enemy ships are laser ships then all the laser ships are just as much in range.
3. You have as strong a buffer tank as anyone else bar a single ship.
1. No. I gave the points, you didn't adress them.
2. I use realistic gangs in mind, with diffrent ship classes and racial weaponsystems.
3. You're talking about the Hype. I was talking about blaster ships in general.
I know it has been said at least a million times in other threads, but you're twisting/avoiding a point as it suits you.
Don't speak english, just F5, F5, F5... |
sophisticatedlimabean
Gallente
Delinquent Habits
|
Posted - 2009.03.14 20:58:00 -
[483]
Originally by: Goumindong
If you're inside web range then they're inside web range.
If you're not getting shot at then you can minimize trasnversal. If you're getting shot at then you maximizing transversal gives you a lower reduction in DPS than they take shooting at you.
So. If you're being shot at then the reduction in DPS agaisnt you is more than the reduction in DPS against them. If you're not being shot at you have the best ability to reduce transversal and increase DPS.
End result: You're wrong, again.
Firstly blasters operate within web range and as such need to hold ships within that range, the web nerf has reduced that ability.
Also the difference in tracking between BS blasters and BS pulse is not close to being significant enough to make a difference considering the available targets for BS. Along with the fact that transversal is virtually irrelevant in BS gang combat.
FACT: The web nerf effected blaster ships most as they relied on webs and operated in web range the most.
End result: You're a clueless paper tiger who uses useless 1 v 1 statistics that are worthless in gang combat.
Originally by: Goumindong
And what ability do amarr ships have to burn away and warp off?
The fact that they operate way outside point and web range is a huge benefit and gives the gang the ability to disengage a lot more easily than the gang of ships that need to be within 10km of the primary.
My views may reflect those of my corp/alliance, but if you wanna know for sure ask em for gods sake. |
Ig Neus
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Posted - 2009.03.14 22:29:00 -
[484]
If we are to make a serious discussion on Battleships gang fights, please do not pretend that ANY Battleship using close range weapons (including Pulses with Scorch) has enough distance to be able to escape.
People do not use Battleships to tackle. They use specialized ships that will tackle you, cannot be hit by a Battleship and often operate outside Neut Range (Specialized Interceptors or Gallente Recons). At 0.0 things get even worse since there are bubbles. The whole argument that Blaster ships get tackled more easily is true but the difference is minimal when you factor how slow any Battleship (and especially Buffer Tanked Amarr Battleship) is and how faster are the ships that will tackle it.
There is one valid point against Blasters in this thread :
The damage difference is not enough to compensate for the range difference when you have to move during fight.
As I already said this is mainly due to current form of tanking and Hyperion's problems with it, as well as (imo) to the weakness of Hyperion by itself. We keep comparing 7 Blasters to 8 Lasers.
Nerf Buffer Tanking, buff Hyperion (1 more low and more Powergrid) and all is well.
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Ad Valorem
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Posted - 2009.03.14 22:35:00 -
[485]
Originally by: Goumindong
Originally by: Ad Valorem
The problems appear to be with tracking since the web nerf but as Marn and others have pointed out there are also range and ammo problems which compound this. AND most people are comparing blasters using the Megathron, a ship with a huge tracking bonus.
Except its not true. The web nerf hurt ships with lower tracking more than it hurt ships with higher. And blasters have the best tracking of any weapon system in the game. Its more or less tied with autocannons. Ironically you mention the Megathron, because the tracking bonus on the Megathron is actually less valuable to it in reducing transversal when needed and increasing it when needed than the second web that the Hyperion can field. This means that of the two available blasterboats the Megathron tracks the worse.
Please, re-read what I wrote and this time try to understand it. You have a bad enough reputation for not taking the salient points on board and spouting your own agenda. I am saying that ts not simply a tracking problm but a combination of many weaknesses in blasters that has made them a second class weapon system.
Do you use blasters? Have you ever flown a blaster battleship? Too many (2) people in this thread are speaking from experience they have with EFT and Sisi. |
Mag's
the united
Negative Ten.
|
Posted - 2009.03.14 23:26:00 -
[486]
Originally by: Ad Valorem
Originally by: Goumindong
Originally by: Ad Valorem
The problems appear to be with tracking since the web nerf but as Marn and others have pointed out there are also range and ammo problems which compound this. AND most people are comparing blasters using the Megathron, a ship with a huge tracking bonus.
Except its not true. The web nerf hurt ships with lower tracking more than it hurt ships with higher. Follwed by more rubbish......
Your reply.
You'll never get him to take any well made and salient points on board.
He's only interested in playing word game and trolling blaster threads.
He doesn't even fly blaster boats.
His reputation proceeds him.
Regards
Mag's |
Captator
Yakuza Corp
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Posted - 2009.03.14 23:46:00 -
[487]
What are peoples' thoughts on medium and small blasters?
I am not going to speak for larges, as I don't regularly use BS let alone blaster BS, but I am not having any problems with medium (particularly) nor small blasters. In fact, I find that orbiting to lower the target's hitchance (or damage if a missile ship) works quite well, with void M still hitting a cruiser sized target with a transversal between 100-200m/s (depending on if they are moving, and if I have web).
If this is echoed by others, is it almost a simple ratio of speed versus effective range versus effective damage, that is skewed against larger blasters (or rather blaster BS)?
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Ig Neus
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Posted - 2009.03.14 23:55:00 -
[488]
Edited by: Ig Neus on 15/03/2009 00:02:22
Small Blasters are great. In fact Gallente have extremely good tech 2 Frigates (Taranis, Iskur).
Medium Blasters are great as well on their own. Other than Rupture and Vexor (Droneship) no other Cruiser even gets close to a Plated Thorax with Medium Electrons for Cruiser gangs.
The problem with Medium Blasters is the ships to put them on, other than the Thorax. Brutix is a nice Battlecruiser but still it is a Tier 1 one. In fact it is the only Tier 1 Battlecruiser that gets used that much since it is comparable with Tier 2 ones but still it does not reach their level. Gallente Tier 2 BC is Myrmidon which is a Droneship so not really a good platform to judge Medium Blasters.
When it comes to HACs Deimos does the most damage and will generally own other HACs at 1v1 (5 medium ECM drones help a lot with that). The problem is that if you are going to get into Blaster range in a HAC, in 90% of cases you could do that in a Battlecruiser, doing more damage, having about the same tank and paying a small fraction of its price. That's why Deimos is considered a bad ship.
Edit :
Quote:
Ig is on the right track re: hype buff or buffer nerf but both solutions would lead to more epic whines, and I can't help feeling its a case of using a sword instead of a scalpel.
I have no problem with epic whines! Go go, add stacking penalties to Trimarks and/or Plates! :P
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Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Blackguard Coalition
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Posted - 2009.03.14 23:56:00 -
[489]
Originally by: Captator
What are peoples' thoughts on medium and small blasters?
Med blasters are passable, but in most situations you'd be better off with something else *cough*lasers*cough. I don't care for small blasters. That said, I do care about large blasters. :)
-Liang
--
Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
www.kwikdeath.org |
Ad Valorem
|
Posted - 2009.03.15 00:01:00 -
[490]
Small blasters are fine, medium blasters are pretty good too, taking Ig Neus' points into consideration. I think throughout this thread it was stated a few times that the problems are only game breakingly evident on battleships. |
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Fistme
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Posted - 2009.03.15 02:07:00 -
[491]
Edited by: Fistme on 15/03/2009 02:14:02
Originally by: Captator
What are peoples' thoughts on medium and small blasters?
Small Blasters work almost perfectly. They have the advantage of commonly being strapped to ships that take full advantage of their strengths. Examples would be the taranis, Ishkur, and to a lesser extent the enyo.
Medium Blasters also work great on their t1 hulls, Thorax, vexor, Brutix. The issue is that the t2 hulls available for medium blasters really fall short in many situations. The Deimos may be great 1v1 against another hac with ecm drones but in any kind of reasonable gang combat you're going to die almost instantly. Weak tank coupled with point blank range = you're in serious trouble unless you have ewar support. The Astarte also suffers from some of these same issue. Your taking a ship that generally has 50-60k ehp and a 300-400 dps active tank into an arena in which it's slight speed and agility advantages over a bs mean next to nothing because you will probably be double webbed and eaten.
I think that there are a couple ways to "fix" the Deimos and Astarte. First and formost would be a re-evaluation of their fall off bonus. With a weapon system that is mixed between optimal and falloff I think the bonus needs to be increased to allow the use of null and neutrons to 20km range pre rigs. I think increasing the falloff bonus from 10% to 12.5% or 15% per level could make the Deimos have a fantastic role outside of web range w/o stepping on the toes of the zealot. As for the Astarte more specificly, another low slot could really make this ship shine. Also give the t2 BCs the hp boost that was given to their t1 counterparts!!! A Brutix having more raw hp than it's t2 brother is silly imho.
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Xela Dioved
Minmatar
Black Panzers
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Posted - 2009.03.15 03:11:00 -
[492]
Originally by: heslookinatu
Edited by: heslookinatu on 08/03/2009 12:08:46
I have been finding lately that no fleets are wanting the blaster ships, the deimos is next to useless compared to other HAC's, the brutix is outclassed by other BC's, thorax is meh etc.
Is it in my best interest to train for the stabber/vaga/munin or amarr if i am more interested in using guns and high dps?
The vaga and stabber look like very fun ships to fly, pilgrim looks awesome, hurricane looks fun etc.
Thoughts? I am basically looking for a good gun race with decently speedy ships and good solo ships (speedy isn't required but it obviously makes it more fun i currently only fly inties)
This reads like, 'I want to fly Minmatar, but need approval'.
Approved.
Fleet stabber is also a nice ship.
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Bellum Eternus
Gallente
Death of Virtue
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Posted - 2009.03.15 04:26:00 -
[493]
17 pages and nothing constructive. Goumindong (what kind of name is that anyway?) trolling as usual. People who have never flown blaster ships (blaster BS in particular) like NightmareX trying to tell blaster pilots how to best fix/use/balance their ships (lol?).
People like Chalsto who have years of experience using blaster ships and blaster based BS in particular are trying to tell you how it really works and everyone insists on arguing with them and telling them that what they know to be true from first hand experience is not.
The QR web change uncovered a crippling deficiency (for blasters, large sized in particular) in the tracking formula, but on top of this is the issue of other weapon systems having the same equivalent performance as blasters or eclipsing them all together in practical application and leaving them with no purpose or role to fill.
Traditionally I'm a blaster pilot, but I've taken it upon myself to experience every race first hand at it's maximum levels for the express purpose of understanding the subtle nuances and differences of fighting with each type. You can't truly understand using a system until you've seen it from both sides.
That being said, the Abaddon, Apoc and Geddon far out perform the Megathron and Hyperion, for both PVP and PVE, regardless of short or long range fits. I compare Amarr to the blaster ships in particular because they're the most similar- armor tanked gun based ships.
The concept of blaster based ships is simple: to do so much peak damage per second that once they're in range they absolutely crush anything they're shooting. Blasters don't need more range, blaster ships don't need any sort of crutch like MWD bonuses or cap bonuses or whatever. They need massive *massive* damage bonuses and more peak damage from blasters themselves and a fixed tracking formula that will allow targets to be tracked up close.
Damage has been reduced multiple times, EHP has been increased multiple times, peak tanks have been increased multiple times and other weapons (lasers in particular) are able to come to within 5-10% of the peak performance of blasters at their native operating ranges. All of these issues have come together to reduce blaster's performance niche to zero.
Compound the above issues with CCP's determination to completely eliminate solo PVP with it's agility changes and so on, and the roles for blaster ships (and blaster BS in particular) have been completely eliminated.
These days I fly a Navy Blasterthron or Kronos when I'm in a gang just because I can't stomach how boring flying an Abaddon or Geddon is to fly. And I won't even get into how much more superior the Abaddon/Paladin is in PVE vs. Gallente ships. A Tach Paladin is just absolutely insane for PVE.
Tl;DR: make blasters more of what they should be: super high DPS, short range, high tracking. Not more of what other stuff is.
Bellum Eternus
Inveniam viam aut faciam.
Death of Virtue is Recruiting
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Goumindong
Amarr
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.03.15 04:48:00 -
[494]
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean
Firstly blasters operate within web range and as such need to hold ships within that range, the web nerf has reduced that ability.
I remember when people said that laser ships sucked because they had to hold people within their range and couldn't. And i remember telling them that that was not the case, the only have to hold the target there long enough to kill it, or do enough damage that it dies before it can leave. Its the same for blaster ships, do not pretend its any different.
Quote:
FACT: The web nerf effected blaster ships most as they relied on webs and operated in web range the most.
The web nerf generally negatively effected larger ships more than smaller ones. It generally negatively effected lower tracking ships more than higher tracking ships. While blaster battleships are indeed larger ships they are not lower tracking ships. You're mistaking a general balance point of "battleships can no longer wtf pwn anything smaller than them inside web range" with a general balance point between lasers and blasters.
Quote:
The fact that they operate way outside point and web range is a huge benefit and gives the gang the ability to disengage a lot more easily than the gang of ships that need to be within 10km of the primary.
distance is time. how long does 45km(Actually its 17km) give you to decide whether or not you need to leave or not? 5 seconds? 10 seconds?
How long does it take you to align and warp out? (12 seconds in an abaddon) How long to jump out when you're sitting at zero on a gate?
Originally by: Ad Valorem
Please, re-read what I wrote and this time try to understand it.
I understood exactly what you were saying, it was just wrong. So i corrected it. Now, do you have an argument as to why I am wrong, or are you going to decry my supposed bias like all the other folks who have no argument except emotion and rhetoric?
Quote:
Too many (2) people in this thread are speaking from experience they have with EFT and Sisi.
So what you're saying is that anecdotal information is what you use instead of reasoned argument in determing which is better?
Quote:
Sorry Goum if I come across as flaming but between you and NightmareX derailing and trolling every thread on blasters I think you need it. You've made your points, leave or post constructively.
I've posted constructively in every thread on this nature, "posting constructively" does not mean "agreeing with the people who i agree with". I am sorry but I will not roll over and die for the three people who wish to see their weapon platform boosted, and instead will use rational examination to come to conclusions.
You're going to have to live with that.
Originally by: Ephemeron
Tempest can fit 2x heavy neuts, with 650s, with a 1600mm plate it would make short work of Hyperion in most cases
Tempest is much more versatile for general PvP than a Hyperion. And what I'm arguing is that this advantage in versatility is clearly more important than a small, 8-16% advantage in raw dps
So what you're saying is that despite your earlier claim the tempest cannot fit the 800mm autocannons as you claimed it could?
The tempest is only as versatile if you refit it, which you have the same ability to do as the Hyperion.
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Goumindong
Amarr
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.03.15 04:48:00 -
[495]
Originally by: Cohkka
As you said, you can't have the best of both worlds.
And lasers don't have it. So why do you want hybrids to?
Originally by: Ig Neus
do not have EFT here so I cannot be 100% sure about the Rokh but I am sure that a Maelstrom can fit a really strong active tank with XL Booster and a Cap Injector powering it that can perma run as long as it has Cap Boosters, while fitting its version of neutrons (800mm ACs).
Final numbers and capability matters. The Hyp can fit relatively massive tanks with great DPS while sporting a full tackle. The Maelstrom can fit an impressive tank with decent dps, but all it is is an impressive tank, it provides nothing else.
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Comrade Bliss
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.03.15 06:35:00 -
[496]
This thread is actually quite good if you scroll over nightmare and beans and various other indvidials post and read the stuff more sane people have written....
Looking for a block button like ingame
I have no experience with large blasters but i really would make love to my Electron ecm combo Thorax if i could. Soloing bc's is the most fun iv'e ever had in eve
As a Race i think Gallente is doing awesome they shouldn't have a blaster buff just get pulses in line with the other weapon systems and problem is solved but i can find in my heart to let amarr have some fun as they sucked for quite a few years from what i understand when talking with older players....
Life is a grave...Dig it... |
Raimo
Gallente
Wrath of Fenris
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Posted - 2009.03.15 08:02:00 -
[497]
Originally by: Fistme
I think that there are a couple ways to "fix" the Deimos and Astarte. First and formost would be a re-evaluation of their fall off bonus. With a weapon system that is mixed between optimal and falloff I think the bonus needs to be increased to allow the use of null and neutrons to 20km range pre rigs. I think increasing the falloff bonus from 10% to 12.5% or 15% per level could make the Deimos have a fantastic role outside of web range w/o stepping on the toes of the zealot. As for the Astarte more specificly, another low slot could really make this ship shine. Also give the t2 BCs the hp boost that was given to their t1 counterparts!!! A Brutix having more raw hp than it's t2 brother is silly imho.
Improving the Falloff bonus of the Deimos is actually not a bad idea. Just give it a 4th mid while you're at it! ;)
---
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Ad Valorem
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Posted - 2009.03.15 10:30:00 -
[498]
Originally by: Goumindong
Originally by: Ad Valorem
Please, re-read what I wrote and this time try to understand it.
I understood exactly what you were saying, it was just wrong. So i corrected it. Now, do you have an argument as to why I am wrong, or are you going to decry my supposed bias like all the other folks who have no argument except emotion and rhetoric?
No, you didn't understand it at all - I will repeat it one last time. You thought I was talking about tracking by itself and your feeble answer illustrates this. I was talking about a combination of factors,including tracking. I thought it was very clear but perhaps english is not your first language. Your answer cherry picked the tracking statement and even then you failed to disprove it. In answer to your question, again if you reread what I said you will see I specifically mention at least one other poster who provides comments on why you are wrong. In this case I provided a statement you have not disproven, and others have provided evidence which I pointed out, I'm not trawling 17 pages of your garbage to quote it for you.
Quote:
Too many (2) people in this thread are speaking from experience they have with EFT and Sisi.
Originally by: Goumindong
So what you're saying is that anecdotal information is what you use instead of reasoned argument in determing which is better?
Where is your reasoned argument? You have provided absolutely zero of value to this discussion. You have taken what I said and tried to turn it back on me, but you have NO experience and NO evidence to support you point.
Quote:
Sorry Goum if I come across as flaming but between you and NightmareX derailing and trolling every thread on blasters I think you need it. You've made your points, leave or post constructively.
Originally by: Goumindong
I've posted constructively in every thread on this nature, "posting constructively" does not mean "agreeing with the people who i agree with". I am sorry but I will not roll over and die for the three people who wish to see their weapon platform boosted, and instead will use rational examination to come to conclusions.
You're going to have to live with that.
I would rather you did not agree with me, so we can have a constructive discussion, so don't try and twist or take my comments out of context (again). You moaned loudest about getting amarr buffed didn't you? I agreed Amarr needed a buff then. Now you are unwilling to consider balancing another weapon system. No one wants blasters OP, hence I have disagreed with some proposals that would lead to that, but a general rebalancing is definitely warranted.
BTW, words like 'rational examination to come to conclusions' might sound good, but you have NOT done that at all - you don't follow arguments or take anything in context. As I said before you have made your point, you seem incapable of making a coherent argument against others points so either start USING 'rational examination to come to conclusions' or leave. Try it out on TQ. Think about what people are trying to say before you spout your nonsense and display your ignorance.
I've made my point so I'll bow out of this thread. All this is in the interests of balance. |
Fistme
|
Posted - 2009.03.15 10:35:00 -
[499]
Originally by: Raimo
Originally by: Fistme
I think that there are a couple ways to "fix" the Deimos and Astarte. First and formost would be a re-evaluation of their fall off bonus. With a weapon system that is mixed between optimal and falloff I think the bonus needs to be increased to allow the use of null and neutrons to 20km range pre rigs. I think increasing the falloff bonus from 10% to 12.5% or 15% per level could make the Deimos have a fantastic role outside of web range w/o stepping on the toes of the zealot. As for the Astarte more specificly, another low slot could really make this ship shine. Also give the t2 BCs the hp boost that was given to their t1 counterparts!!! A Brutix having more raw hp than it's t2 brother is silly imho.
Improving the Falloff bonus of the Deimos is actually not a bad idea. Just give it a 4th mid while you're at it! ;)
I highly disagree on the 4th mid. A 4th mid on the deimos would make it a faster more agile BC w/o the sacrifice that most Cruisers have to make between mobility and semi cap warfare proof. I think that longer range on t2 blasters ships would give them gang performance beyond the point of suicide. Mobility + small margin of error would make the blaster deimos a fun and productive ship to fly.
What i find as an even more simple solution is to simply increase the falloff bonus on null to allow it to strike at even greater ranges. You could simply remove the optimal bonus and increase the falloff bonus of the ammo by 125-150%. Scaled damage at a reasonable range.
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Nero Septimus
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Posted - 2009.03.15 11:00:00 -
[500]
Edited by: Nero Septimus on 15/03/2009 11:01:53
Get a Pilgrim with Neuts, Tracking disruptors, and Drones. And a passive plate "tank".
Edit: Just realised that you after a gun ship. In that case get a Munnin or a Zealot.
pilrgim would probably own both those ships tho :)
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.03.15 11:30:00 -
[501]
Edited by: NightmareX on 15/03/2009 11:41:36
Hmmm. I told earlier that it was my last reply, but meh, gonna add this to.
Well yeah.
If you only look at the raw paper DPS for Lasers and Blasters, then yes, Blasters doesn't do many % more DPS than Lasers in web range, that's true.
But why say Lasers are better because of the range advantage they have and because they have almost indentical paper DPS than Blasters?. I wouldn't. Because if you take the armor omni tanks into the picture, the DPS on Blasters will get a bit more than just some few %.
On paper Lasers are better, and they are better because they have more advantages than Blasters have advantageas. But that's until you take the armor omni tanks into the picture.
Then everything turns out a little better for Gallente with Blasters even when they have way shorter range than Lasers. That's how i see it.
I don't get some of the peoples in this topic why they are saying booohooo, Blasters are only do some few % better DPS than Lasers in web range, and it's not worth it today.
You still forget the armor omni tanks. When you take the armor omni tanks into the picture, the raw DPS on Blasters will get around 30% better than Lasers have. And it's because of the damage types the different weapons are doing.
And Amarr BS'es have got a bit more EHP to counter that up. Seems pretty balanced to me.
You cannot change that fact.
Anyone wanna prove me wrong about that?.
And also, why boost Blasters that are balanced with Autocannons and Missiles?. Boost Blaster and you have to boost Autocannons and Missiles to.
Why not do the easy way of just nerfing Lasers (1 weapon type) instead of boosting 3 weapon types?.
Because there is no reason to boost 3 weapon types to get them in line with Lasers, instead of just nering Lasers a little to get them in line with the 3 other weapon types.
Seems pretty clear to me on what's needed to be done here.
I'm not saying that even when Lasers have the range advantage, it doesn't mean i'm saying they are overpowered or any better than Blasters, Autocannons or Missiles.
EDIT: sophisticatedlimabean, you better not respond to this post. If i see that you respond to my topic with any bull**** here, i will report you. I want someone that can give me good reasons on what i have told here.
I want someone that can prove me wrong for example without having to take my kills from omg bugged Battleclinic and without taking sisi in the replies to me here.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
sophisticatedlimabean
Gallente
Delinquent Habits
|
Posted - 2009.03.15 11:37:00 -
[502]
Edited by: sophisticatedlimabean on 15/03/2009 11:41:59
Originally by: Goumindong
I remember when people said that laser ships sucked because they had to hold people within their range and couldn't. And i remember telling them that that was not the case, the only have to hold the target there long enough to kill it, or do enough damage that it dies before it can leave. Its the same for blaster ships, do not pretend its any different.
Cos 45km of optimal dmg is what blasters get is it?....stfu.
Originally by: Goumindong
distance is time. how long does 45km(Actually its 17km) give you to decide whether or not you need to leave or not? 5 seconds? 10 seconds?
How long does it take you to align and warp out? (12 seconds in an abaddon)
I suppose you playing with EFT all the time means you do not know that piulots with good range are always going to be aligned...
All you need do is click warp and you are gone, while blaster ships are always in point range if not web range as well.
Go find another thread to troll with you amarr bias.
Originally by: NightmareX
tldr
Proly the same worthless rubbish you have been posting from the start anyway....
My views may reflect those of my corp/alliance, but if you wanna know for sure ask em for gods sake. |
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.03.15 11:43:00 -
[503]
Edited by: NightmareX on 15/03/2009 11:44:40
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean
Originally by: NightmareX
tldr
Proly the same worthless rubbish you have been posting from the start anyway....
Did you read that i wrote under EDIT?.
Answer me now or get reported.
You have 20 mins to answer me on what i have said before i send in a report for just trolling without giving ANY reasons.
12.03 EVE time your time is up. So you better hurry.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Raimo
Gallente
Wrath of Fenris
|
Posted - 2009.03.15 11:44:00 -
[504]
Originally by: Fistme
Originally by: Raimo
Originally by: Fistme
I think that there are a couple ways to "fix" the Deimos and Astarte. First and formost would be a re-evaluation of their fall off bonus. With a weapon system that is mixed between optimal and falloff I think the bonus needs to be increased to allow the use of null and neutrons to 20km range pre rigs. I think increasing the falloff bonus from 10% to 12.5% or 15% per level could make the Deimos have a fantastic role outside of web range w/o stepping on the toes of the zealot. As for the Astarte more specificly, another low slot could really make this ship shine. Also give the t2 BCs the hp boost that was given to their t1 counterparts!!! A Brutix having more raw hp than it's t2 brother is silly imho.
Improving the Falloff bonus of the Deimos is actually not a bad idea. Just give it a 4th mid while you're at it! ;)
I highly disagree on the 4th mid. A 4th mid on the deimos would make it a faster more agile BC w/o the sacrifice that most Cruisers have to make between mobility and semi cap warfare proof. I think that longer range on t2 blasters ships would give them gang performance beyond the point of suicide. Mobility + small margin of error would make the blaster deimos a fun and productive ship to fly.
Hmm. The 4th mid would be best used for a shield buffer, not cap boosting FYI. That would be some mean mobility/ gank/ buffer...
---
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sophisticatedlimabean
Gallente
Delinquent Habits
|
Posted - 2009.03.15 11:46:00 -
[505]
Edited by: sophisticatedlimabean on 15/03/2009 11:47:24
Originally by: NightmareX
Edited by: NightmareX on 15/03/2009 11:44:40
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean
Originally by: NightmareX
tldr
Proly the same worthless rubbish you have been posting from the start anyway....
Did you read that i wrote under EDIT?.
Answer me now or get reported.
You have 20 mins to answer me on what i have said before i send in a report for just trolling without giving ANY reasons.
12.03 EVE time your time is up. So you better hurry.
You have been Reported for using foul language in the initial post and for constant trolling/threats/harassment.
My views may reflect those of my corp/alliance, but if you wanna know for sure ask em for gods sake. |
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.03.15 11:48:00 -
[506]
Edited by: NightmareX on 15/03/2009 11:55:32
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean
Originally by: NightmareX
Edited by: NightmareX on 15/03/2009 11:44:40
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean
Originally by: NightmareX
tldr
Proly the same worthless rubbish you have been posting from the start anyway....
Did you read that i wrote under EDIT?.
Answer me now or get reported.
You have 20 mins to answer me on what i have said before i send in a report for just trolling without giving ANY reasons.
12.03 EVE time your time is up. So you better hurry.
You have been Reported for using foul language in the initial post and for constant trolling/harassment.
Thank you for reporting your self there.
Hahaha, i'll just wait until the forum mods see what i wrote and then what you have written.
Mmmmm, nice one.
Anyways, you have 15 mins to answer me now.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
sophisticatedlimabean
Gallente
Delinquent Habits
|
Posted - 2009.03.15 11:50:00 -
[507]
Originally by: NightmareX
troll
Reported for off topic harassment/threats.
My views may reflect those of my corp/alliance, but if you wanna know for sure ask em for gods sake. |
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.03.15 11:55:00 -
[508]
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean
Originally by: NightmareX
troll
Reported for off topic harassment/threats.
The post has been reported.
Return to forum
Happy now?.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
sophisticatedlimabean
Gallente
Delinquent Habits
|
Posted - 2009.03.15 11:57:00 -
[509]
Edited by: sophisticatedlimabean on 15/03/2009 11:57:32
Originally by: NightmareX
troll
Yawn..reported for harrasment/trolling ect ect.
My views may reflect those of my corp/alliance, but if you wanna know for sure ask em for gods sake. |
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.03.15 11:59:00 -
[510]
Edited by: NightmareX on 15/03/2009 12:06:42
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean
Edited by: sophisticatedlimabean on 15/03/2009 11:57:32
Originally by: NightmareX
troll
Yawn..reported for harrasment/trolling ect ect.
Where do i troll or do harassment here?: LINK. It was YOU that started to troll now.
Don't you have other things to do than trolling whatever i ask or tell?.
Maybe that's only proving that your very very bitter on me because i asked about something that i have a very good points on and also pointed out some very good facts.
Now, can i get some points, facts, reasons or good explanations on what i asked HERE?.
Remember, i didn't include crying and whining into the questions. Points, facts, reasons or good explanations is NOT with crying and whining included.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
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sophisticatedlimabean
Gallente
Delinquent Habits
|
Posted - 2009.03.15 12:06:00 -
[511]
Originally by: NightmareX
same rant about omni tanks and dmg types (that only matter in 1 v 1 fights not BS gang combat).....different post
You bleat on about the same 1 v 1 stat crap every few pages and you get shot down the same way every few pages, then you wait a while and start preaching the same drivel all over again like its some sort of revaluation and the answers to it have not already been given.
You are a repetitive troll with no clue about gang combat on TQ.
My views may reflect those of my corp/alliance, but if you wanna know for sure ask em for gods sake. |
Traderboz
|
Posted - 2009.03.15 12:07:00 -
[512]
Wow.
I'm sure the mods love you guys if you're actually spamming them with all these useless reports.
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.03.15 12:08:00 -
[513]
Edited by: NightmareX on 15/03/2009 12:23:15
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean
Originally by: NightmareX
same rant about omni tanks and dmg types (that only matter in 1 v 1 fights not BS gang combat).....different post
You bleat on about the same 1 v 1 stat crap every few pages and you get shot down the same way every few pages, then you wait a while and start preaching the same drivel all over again like its some sort of revaluation and the answers to it have not already been given.
You are a repetitive troll with no clue about gang combat on TQ.
Reported again for taking the topic off topic again. And because you reply with something that doesn't have anything to do with what i asked about.
I asked about resists and EHP in general, not 1 vs 1 dude.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
sophisticatedlimabean
Gallente
Delinquent Habits
|
Posted - 2009.03.15 12:10:00 -
[514]
Originally by: NightmareX
troll
Reported for trolling/harrasment ect ect
My views may reflect those of my corp/alliance, but if you wanna know for sure ask em for gods sake. |
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.03.15 12:13:00 -
[515]
Edited by: NightmareX on 15/03/2009 12:15:09
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean
Originally by: NightmareX
troll
Reported for trolling/harrasment ect ect
, omg scary propaganda.
Do you gonna answer me the questions i asked HERE?. Or wait, i said that you was not included to answer me there, nvm.
Or are you still gonna do off topic replies and lie so you get reported all the time?.
Don't you have had enough temp bans on the forum now?.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
sophisticatedlimabean
Gallente
Delinquent Habits
|
Posted - 2009.03.15 12:15:00 -
[516]
The problem with blasters is there effectiveness in the ranges they already have not that they need longer ranges.
And while certain MORONS may continue to preach about omni tanks and dmg types the fact is that in gang combat those things are considerably less important than a 1 v 1 sissi warrior with no clue about gang pvp on TQ may think.
A boost to dmg in the ranges they already have will help them be better in gang combat while taking nothing away from lasers ect.
My views may reflect those of my corp/alliance, but if you wanna know for sure ask em for gods sake. |
sophisticatedlimabean
Gallente
Delinquent Habits
|
Posted - 2009.03.15 12:15:00 -
[517]
Originally by: NightmareX
troll
Reported for trolling/harassment.
My views may reflect those of my corp/alliance, but if you wanna know for sure ask em for gods sake. |
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.03.15 12:15:00 -
[518]
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean
The problem with blasters is there effectiveness in the ranges they already have not that they need longer ranges.
And while certain MORONS may continue to preach about omni tanks and dmg types the fact is that in gang combat those things are considerably less important than a 1 v 1 sissi warrior with no clue about gang pvp on TQ may think.
A boost to dmg in the ranges they already have will help them be better in gang combat while taking nothing away from lasers ect.
Reported
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
sophisticatedlimabean
Gallente
Delinquent Habits
|
Posted - 2009.03.15 12:17:00 -
[519]
Edited by: sophisticatedlimabean on 15/03/2009 12:18:01
Originally by: NightmareX
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean
The problem with blasters is there effectiveness in the ranges they already have not that they need longer ranges.
And while certain MORONS may continue to preach about omni tanks and dmg types the fact is that in gang combat those things are considerably less important than a 1 v 1 sissi warrior with no clue about gang pvp on TQ may think.
A boost to dmg in the ranges they already have will help them be better in gang combat while taking nothing away from lasers ect.
Reported
So much for answering on topic...
Reported for harrasment ect ect.
My views may reflect those of my corp/alliance, but if you wanna know for sure ask em for gods sake. |
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.03.15 12:20:00 -
[520]
Edited by: NightmareX on 15/03/2009 12:21:42
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean
Edited by: sophisticatedlimabean on 15/03/2009 12:18:01
Originally by: NightmareX
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean
The problem with blasters is there effectiveness in the ranges they already have not that they need longer ranges.
And while certain MORONS may continue to preach about omni tanks and dmg types the fact is that in gang combat those things are considerably less important than a 1 v 1 sissi warrior with no clue about gang pvp on TQ may think.
A boost to dmg in the ranges they already have will help them be better in gang combat while taking nothing away from lasers ect.
Reported
So much for answering on topic...
Reported for harrasment ect ect.
Yeah, report me dude, your gonna be suprised to see who's the one whos getting a few weeks ban from the forum now
But yeah, you are reported again for telling ME to be on topic when your not doing that your self.
Oh by the way, what's your point by doing this really?. Do you like to be banned from the forum?.
You wont get ANYWAY by doing this, you wont change anythng for me other than that i'm reporting you for taking this topic way off topic.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
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sophisticatedlimabean
Gallente
Delinquent Habits
|
Posted - 2009.03.15 12:21:00 -
[521]
Edited by: sophisticatedlimabean on 15/03/2009 12:25:00
Originally by: NightmareX
ranting troll as per usual
/ignore troll.
The problem with blasters is there effectiveness in the ranges they already have not that they need longer ranges.
And while certain sissi heroes may continue to preach about omni tanks and dmg types the fact is that in gang combat those things are considerably less important than a 1 v 1 sissi warrior with no clue about gang pvp on TQ may think.
A boost to dmg in the ranges they already have will help them be better in gang combat while taking nothing away from lasers ect.
My views may reflect those of my corp/alliance, but if you wanna know for sure ask em for gods sake. |
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.03.15 12:25:00 -
[522]
Edited by: NightmareX on 15/03/2009 12:26:26
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean
Edited by: sophisticatedlimabean on 15/03/2009 12:25:00
Originally by: NightmareX
ranting troll as per usual
/ignore troll.
The problem with blasters is there effectiveness in the ranges they already have not that they need longer ranges.
And while certain sissi heroes may continue to preach about omni tanks and dmg types the fact is that in gang combat those things are considerably less important than a 1 v 1 sissi warrior with no clue about gang pvp on TQ may think.
A boost to dmg in the ranges they already have will help them be better in gang combat while taking nothing away from lasers ect.
Yeah just ignore me. That's all you can do when you face the fact from me.
Reported again for going off topic.
Hmmm, 7-8 reports on you now. Mmmmmm gonna be sweet when the forum mods see this. Hahah i'm gonna love this.
Now i'm gonna ignore you, hah.
Tell whatever bull**** you want. But i'm not gonna make this toic go more off topic because one troll is taking it off topic.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
sophisticatedlimabean
Gallente
Delinquent Habits
|
Posted - 2009.03.15 12:26:00 -
[523]
Edited by: sophisticatedlimabean on 15/03/2009 12:28:14
Originally by: NightmareX
MORE ranting troll as per usual
/ignore troll.+ reported for foul/abusive language.
The problem with blasters is there effectiveness in the ranges they already have not that they need longer ranges.
And while certain sissi heroes may continue to preach about omni tanks and dmg types the fact is that in gang combat those things are considerably less important than a 1 v 1 sissi warrior with no clue about gang pvp on TQ may think.
A boost to dmg in the ranges they already have will help them be better in gang combat while taking nothing away from lasers ect.
My views may reflect those of my corp/alliance, but if you wanna know for sure ask em for gods sake. |
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.03.15 12:31:00 -
[524]
Edited by: NightmareX on 15/03/2009 12:33:26
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean
Epic whine and troll
Do you think i care about your epic noob whines?.
Give me some facts about what i asked about and i'm gonna listen to you.
You won't get any more replies from me now. The more you reply with this crap, the more you get reported. And i will do it without even replying here.
But comeon, one more copy pasta reply, i know you can do it. Your awesome if you do, don't disapoint me now.
Don't expect me to reply to your copy pasta whines. I think i have replies enough to them alrady.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
sophisticatedlimabean
Gallente
Delinquent Habits
|
Posted - 2009.03.15 12:32:00 -
[525]
Edited by: sophisticatedlimabean on 15/03/2009 12:33:10
Originally by: NightmareX
Yet more troll
/ignore troll+ reported for harassment ect.
The problem with blasters is there effectiveness in the ranges they already have not that they need longer ranges.
And while certain sissi heroes may continue to preach about omni tanks and dmg types the fact is that in gang combat those things are considerably less important than a 1 v 1 sissi warrior with no clue about gang pvp on TQ may think.
A boost to dmg in the ranges they already have will help them be better in gang combat while taking nothing away from lasers ect.
My views may reflect those of my corp/alliance, but if you wanna know for sure ask em for gods sake. |
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.03.15 12:36:00 -
[526]
Edited by: NightmareX on 15/03/2009 12:36:43
My last reply.
Goddamnit, i need more popcorn .
This is going to be fun.
Anyways, afk. Dinner time.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Traderboz
|
Posted - 2009.03.15 12:36:00 -
[527]
I think it's a valid point that most armor tanked ships are more susceptible to blaster damage types than laser damage types. That doesn't mean the argument is over, but it's another point to consider and isn't just a "1 v 1" issue.
And while you say that boosting blasters won't affect lasers, that's just sort of silly. Whether something is good or bad in this game depends on how it compares to other things in the game. As a complete hypothetical, if a BB dealt 2k dps, it wouldn't mean much if other ships were dealing 5k dps. Point being, buffing or nerfing any module or ship affects more than just that module/ship.
And I think Nightmare has a point when bringing up missiles/projectiles. If you buff blasters, then what about autocannons? How would they compare to buffed blasters? It's easy enough to only argue against lasers and then ask for a buff, but I think you need to consider the other weapons in the game as well and what a blaster buff would do to them.
There's some stuff that resembles intelligent discussion in all these posts, but it's few and far between, haha, and even you guys don't seem to consider the other person's points when leaping to conclusions. I can't say I'm surprised though, haha, since you guys can't get past post spamming and "reporting" each other, as if that's such a huge burn or something.
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sophisticatedlimabean
Gallente
Delinquent Habits
|
Posted - 2009.03.15 12:42:00 -
[528]
Edited by: sophisticatedlimabean on 15/03/2009 12:44:49
Originally by: Traderboz
I think it's a valid point that most armor tanked ships are more susceptible to blaster damage types than laser damage types. That doesn't mean the argument is over, but it's another point to consider and isn't just a "1 v 1" issue.
Perhaps but in gang combat omni tanks and dmg types are no as big of a issue as they are in 1 v 1. NightmareNOXP has given on many occasions his pest fit that can "tank a laser ship easily "as a example of how things are fine. When the example is so flawed for a gang combat thread its a joke.
Originally by: Traderboz
And I think Nightmare has a point when bringing up missiles/projectiles. If you buff blasters, then what about autocannons? How would they compare to buffed blasters? It's easy enough to only argue against lasers and then ask for a buff, but I think you need to consider the other weapons in the game as well and what a blaster buff would do to them.
If the other systems need a boost to be balanced as well id support it but this is the blaster thread and as such we are discussing the problems with blasters at the moment.
PS: And yea nightmareNOXP's introduction of "answer me and il claim its off topic and report you" was rather juvenile but he is a liar and a inexperienced sissi warrior and has been proven to be so many times, so its all he has left to do...
My views may reflect those of my corp/alliance, but if you wanna know for sure ask em for gods sake. |
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.03.15 12:50:00 -
[529]
Edited by: NightmareX on 15/03/2009 12:54:22
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean
PS: And yea nightmareNOXP's introduction of "answer me and il claim its off topic and report you" was rather juvenile but he is a liar and a inexperienced sissi warrior and has been proven to be so many times, so its all he has left to do...
So yeah, only because i asked a question about something i learned about after 2-3 weeks after i started to play EVE, it doesn't mean i'm a sisi warrior just because i say those things.
Almost everyone know the things i have been asking about. And we don't need to do ANYTHING on sisi to just know those few things that i'm asking about. And you should know that.
And yeah. This is a Blaster topic, but when someone say boost Blasters, then we can say that this will make the other weapon types underpowered again, and because it's much easier to just nerf Lasers a little to get them in the same line as the 3 other weapon types instead of boosting 3 weapon types to get them inline with one weapn type, then that's a reason that is fully allowed to say.
Traderboz, yes, i have a point on what i'm saying about that. Maybe that's the reason someone in this topic can't answer me the questions heh.
We can't just say yeah boost Blasters and then doesn't take in all of the other things that a Blaster boost are going to make really broken.
Everyone can agree on that.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Happster
Polaris Project
|
Posted - 2009.03.15 13:41:00 -
[530]
Originally by: NightmareX
I don't get some of the peoples in this topic why they are saying booohooo, Blasters are only do some few % better DPS than Lasers in web range, and it's not worth it today.
You still forget the armor omni tanks. When you take the armor omni tanks into the picture, the raw DPS on Blasters will get around 30% better than Lasers have. And it's because of the damage types the different weapons are doing.
And Amarr BS'es have got a bit more EHP to counter that up. Seems pretty balanced to me.
You cannot change that fact.
Anyone wanna prove me wrong about that?.
And also, why boost Blasters that are balanced with Autocannons and Missiles?. Boost Blaster and you have to boost Autocannons and Missiles to.
A litle off topic but wanted to comment on some of your post.
If your argumentation about blaster mega vs amarr lasers boats is dps vs ehp and omni tank. Where would the AC pest fit in this? shouldnt the AC pest get a big boost then?
The dps, omni tank and ehp on a pest vs a blaster mega cant even come close. Does this mean the pest needs a big boost? Same is if compare ac pest vs laser boat.
On other side, i kind of agree with last part of your post where you say why boost 3 weapons instead of just nerfing one.
Ref my earlier post about tracking nerf on lasers, and a small boost on optimal on emp and hail. If this was implented i would find all guns and ship as balanced as it can be...
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
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Posted - 2009.03.15 13:58:00 -
[531]
Edited by: NightmareX on 15/03/2009 14:06:28
Originally by: Happster
Originally by: NightmareX
I don't get some of the peoples in this topic why they are saying booohooo, Blasters are only do some few % better DPS than Lasers in web range, and it's not worth it today.
You still forget the armor omni tanks. When you take the armor omni tanks into the picture, the raw DPS on Blasters will get around 30% better than Lasers have. And it's because of the damage types the different weapons are doing.
And Amarr BS'es have got a bit more EHP to counter that up. Seems pretty balanced to me.
You cannot change that fact.
Anyone wanna prove me wrong about that?.
And also, why boost Blasters that are balanced with Autocannons and Missiles?. Boost Blaster and you have to boost Autocannons and Missiles to.
A litle off topic but wanted to comment on some of your post.
If your argumentation about blaster mega vs amarr lasers boats is dps vs ehp and omni tank. Where would the AC pest fit in this? shouldnt the AC pest get a big boost then?
The dps, omni tank and ehp on a pest vs a blaster mega cant even come close. Does this mean the pest needs a big boost? Same is if compare ac pest vs laser boat.
On other side, i kind of agree with last part of your post where you say why boost 3 weapons instead of just nerfing one.
Ref my earlier post about tracking nerf on lasers, and a small boost on optimal on emp and hail. If this was implented i would find all guns and ship as balanced as it can be...
Yeah, an AC fitted Tempest isn't as strong as a Blaster Mega and an Abaddon. I agree on that.
But, because the Tempest is more versatile than any of those 2 BS'es, and because you can have utility slots to use for EW and Neuts / NOS etc. Then i will say that those things can make it up to the Blaster Mega and Abaddon.
Personally i have seen a Tempest that have both neuts and ECM that have totally screwed up both a Blaster Mega and an Abaddon without any problems.
The thing with ECM though is just about being lucky to get jam cycles. If you get jam cycles it gives you some few things that you can decide in the 20 secs they are jammed.
If you have one target scrambling you and you see that your getting locked by many others that we are fighting, if you are a bit away from the BS'es and that. Then you can actually just jam the scrambling frig and hope to get a jam cycle and run away if needed.
Or it can buy you some time to take more damage to the target so the chance to kill one is higher. Ofc, if your prmaried and scrambled by a frig and don't get a jam cycle on the frig so you can't get out, your not going to survive though. But that's how EVE is, you cannot win all the time.
Personally i have been up to the situation where i have been tackled by 2 frigs while the main gang is on the way to me to kill me. And i knew that if i couldn't get out now, i would be toast within seconds.
So what i did was to jam one of the frig, and i did, but i still had the 2nd frigs on me that was scrambling me. And i was just praying that right after the jam on the first frig was over, i would jam the 2nd frig right after. And guess what, it did.
So at this moment, no one had me scrambled, and because i was aligned, i managed to get out before the first frig got a lock on me again. And before the rest of the gang jumped in.
Yes this happened on TQ like 4-5 months ago.
This is just one example on what you can do with a Tempest. You would never be able to do that in a Megathron or an Abaddon if you want to use the normal PVP setups.
And those things is what make a Tempest really nice and fun to use. And just remember, i only fit ECM and Neuts to a close range AC Tempest. That's the reason i like it so much.
The Tempest is still not as strong as Blaster Mega and an Abaddon with Pulse Lasers. But what you can do with a Tempest is making up for it a bit.
I hope this gives you some answers though.
See, if you ask good questions, you get good answers back.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Gevic
|
Posted - 2009.03.15 14:09:00 -
[532]
Edited by: Gevic on 15/03/2009 14:09:58
Make the pain stop, please make it stop.
I have my own opinions about blasterboats, but who cares its going to buried under the two srs bsns forum worriarzz!!!
For the love of god take it to another topic where you two can flame the crap out of one another. Or better yet, get your respective corps to wardec each other to determine who is the l33t p0aster.
Just stop ****ting up this thread. Some of us actually, you know, actually want to read or participate in a non ******ed discussion about the viability of blasters and the platforms that use them.
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.03.15 14:19:00 -
[533]
Edited by: NightmareX on 15/03/2009 14:24:49
Originally by: Gevic
Edited by: Gevic on 15/03/2009 14:09:58
Make the pain stop, please make it stop.
I have my own opinions about blasterboats, but who cares its going to buried under the two srs bsns forum worriarzz!!!
For the love of god take it to another topic where you two can flame the crap out of one another. Or better yet, get your respective corps to wardec each other to determine who is the l33t p0aster.
Just stop ****ting up this thread. Some of us actually, you know, actually want to read or participate in a non ******ed discussion about the viability of blasters and the platforms that use them.
I have made it stop. At lease for now
Anyways. As you can see on my last posts here now. I give a full explanation on how things are with the different things in PVP, and about the different ships.
And when someone here ask me some pretty good questions about what i was writing about HERE.
Then you can see that i actually gives good answers back to.
It's not like what sophisticatedlimabean are telling all the time that booohooo, it's only for 1 vs 1 and booohooo it's only from sisi, and then rabble away without giving any explanations.
And as a good example on how sophisticatedlimabean is here, just take a look what he have spammed this topic with after this detailed and good explanained post HERE.
There is no suprise that this topic get to a spam topic with him here.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
sophisticatedlimabean
Gallente
Delinquent Habits
|
Posted - 2009.03.15 14:20:00 -
[534]
Edited by: sophisticatedlimabean on 15/03/2009 14:26:11
Originally by: Gevic
Make the pain stop, please make it stop.
I have my own opinions about blasterboats, but who cares its going to buried under the two srs bsns forum worriarzz!!!
For the love of god take it to another topic where you two can flame the crap out of one another. Or better yet, get your respective corps to wardec each other to determine who is the l33t p0aster.
Just stop ****ting up this thread. Some of us actually, you know, actually want to read or participate in a non ******ed discussion about the viability of blasters and the platforms that use them.
So other than another rant do you have anything on topic to add?.
Preferably not a post about a solo BS fitted with jammers ect vs a frig or two, as this thread is about the usefulness of blaster ships in BS GANG combat and how underpowered they are.
Especially considering the fact that GANG PVP is the only pvp really available to BS on TQ.
I mean jamming a frig or two 4-5 months ago and running away (if it really happened as the poster is a total liar) is hardly relevant to gang combat or blasters...
But "hey look at me in my solo pest on sissi" is all some ppl can post about....
My views may reflect those of my corp/alliance, but if you wanna know for sure ask em for gods sake. |
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.03.15 14:27:00 -
[535]
Edited by: NightmareX on 15/03/2009 14:28:19
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean
But "hey look at me in ny solo pest on sissi" is all some ppl can post about....
Reported for trolling again.
Are you done soon with the trolling?.
And do you think i have to asnwer one that aks about an AC Tempest with something that have to do with Blasters.
Dude an AC Tempest don't use Blasters.
I have to answer about what the good things is about a Tempest when someone actually ARE asking about a Tempest.
Are you really that dense or dumb?.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
sophisticatedlimabean
Gallente
Delinquent Habits
|
Posted - 2009.03.15 14:28:00 -
[536]
Edited by: sophisticatedlimabean on 15/03/2009 14:29:11
Originally by: NightmareX
more ranting troll
Reported for off topic comments and harassment ect ect.
My views may reflect those of my corp/alliance, but if you wanna know for sure ask em for gods sake. |
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.03.15 14:29:00 -
[537]
Edited by: NightmareX on 15/03/2009 14:29:46
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean
Edited by: sophisticatedlimabean on 15/03/2009 14:28:12
Originally by: NightmareX
troll
Reported for off topic comments and harassment ect ect.
Oh look, the copy pasta king is back.
And also, i know your trying to get this topic locked to, but dude, your not gonna make any sense with a Boost Blaster topic by getting them locled lol.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
sophisticatedlimabean
Gallente
Delinquent Habits
|
Posted - 2009.03.15 14:30:00 -
[538]
Originally by: NightmareX
off topic trolling ect
reported.
My views may reflect those of my corp/alliance, but if you wanna know for sure ask em for gods sake. |
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.03.15 14:30:00 -
[539]
Edited by: NightmareX on 15/03/2009 14:31:22
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean
Originally by: NightmareX
off topic trolling ect
reported.
Hmm, i don't see any report mails from CCP. Where are they?.
Oh noes, i'm gonna start to cry, someone is telling me that i'm getting reported when in fact i'm not.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
sophisticatedlimabean
Gallente
Delinquent Habits
|
Posted - 2009.03.15 14:31:00 -
[540]
Originally by: NightmareX
Dude an AC Tempest don't use Blasters.
Then reported for off topic comments.
Originally by: NightmareX
Are you really that dense or dumb?.
Reported for off topic comments and insults.
My views may reflect those of my corp/alliance, but if you wanna know for sure ask em for gods sake. |
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
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Posted - 2009.03.15 14:32:00 -
[541]
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean
Originally by: NightmareX
Dude an AC Tempest don't use Blasters.
Then reported for off topic comments.
Originally by: NightmareX
Are you really that dense or dumb?.
Reported for off topic comments and insults.
Report the guy who asked me the question then instead maybe?.
Oh my god, he's reporting me, where is the waaaaaaaaaambulaaaaance.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Happster
Polaris Project
|
Posted - 2009.03.15 14:33:00 -
[542]
There really are no need for rude comments about the posters in here.
If your post is about yelling how stupid someone is, ppl tend to just skip your posts and points. Atleast thats what i do. So please behave.
Instead of doing Quote on Quote and so on, ill try to start fresh.
OP was about gangs if im not mistaken. And gangs today has X amount of falcons to do their jamming for them.
BS job in a fleet is to dish out dps and very often do some RR.
Also, in gangs you very often has dedicated tacklers. Meaning BS dont really need to tackle. Again, BS need to dish out dps.
Atleast thats how i usally see fleets of 8++ ppl.
At this senario i have to agree that the lasers are THE weapon to use. As range doesnt really matter much.
If your camping a gate, jumping in a gate, the distance to your target will not matter as the tackler will tackle, all you have to do is lock and get close to your rr buddies.
Blasters and AC's has to get closer to targets to do some good dps.
In such a gang, the neuts on your pest will not matter. The ecm on your pest will not matter. All that will matter is dps and EHP and RR. Only thing i can think of that can make pest a better choice is eccm. But dont really sure how effective those are vs a falcon.
But anyway. Just because falcons, tackler and BS fleets are made this way. Does that make lasers overpowered? I think not. To me it is just logic tactic and good use of ships and roles.
A BS fighting in low sec solo has very different roles and attributes then a BS dedicated to dish out dps in a fleet.
I allways try to see BS as in a role. Some are snipers, some are solo bs, some are gang bs. Most of the BS fit in a dedicated role. Usally it is what you as a pilot make out of your BS that will dicated how well you perform.
Its like you dont try to kill a fly with a rocket launcher, you user your newspaper or something alike. Works so much better. Same ting with the weapons and ships.
Fighting frigs with BS? Are BS really meant to be fighting frigs? Some may be able to, but others not. To me thats just fine. Again, depends on design and roles.
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.03.15 14:39:00 -
[543]
Edited by: NightmareX on 15/03/2009 14:40:57
Happster, yes it was just one example on what you can do with a Tempest.
There is tons of things you can do with a Tempest in a fleet fight.
With one ECCM and with 2x large remote armor reps for example, it can be very usefull in a RR BS gang. When the ECCM works, then it's really funny.
Heheh, now i'm waiting for sophisticatedlimabean to go omgomg reported for going off topic. But in fact, if you read the first reply to the OP, then we are free to give him some recommendation on other than just Blaster ships.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
sophisticatedlimabean
Gallente
Delinquent Habits
|
Posted - 2009.03.15 14:40:00 -
[544]
Edited by: sophisticatedlimabean on 15/03/2009 14:42:08
Originally by: Happster
OP was about gangs if im not mistaken. And gangs today has X amount of falcons to do their jamming for them.
BS job in a fleet is to dish out dps and very often do some RR.
Also, in gangs you very often has dedicated tacklers. Meaning BS dont really need to tackle. Again, BS need to dish out dps.
Mostly accurate.
Originally by: Happster
Atleast thats how i usally see fleets of 8++ ppl.
At this senario i have to agree that the lasers are THE weapon to use. As range doesnt really matter much.
If your camping a gate, jumping in a gate, the distance to your target will not matter as the tackler will tackle, all you have to do is lock and get close to your rr buddies.
Blasters and AC's has to get closer to targets to do some good dps.
Also reasonably correct, although range matters a lot in gang combat for dealing dmg and especially avoiding dmg.
Originally by: Happster
But anyway. Just because falcons, tackler and BS fleets are made this way. Does that make lasers overpowered? I think not. To me it is just logic tactic and good use of ships and roles.
That is why this thread is about blasters being underpowered and not about lasers being overpowered bud.
Originally by: Happster
A BS fighting in low sec solo has very different roles and attributes then a BS dedicated to dish out dps in a fleet.
I allways try to see BS as in a role. Some are snipers, some are solo bs, some are gang bs. Most of the BS fit in a dedicated role. Usally it is what you as a pilot make out of your BS that will dicated how well you perform.
And here is the main problem as solo BS combat is non-existant on TQ and has been gone for a long time, making the so called "role" of blaster ships also non-existant.
Its easy to sit on sissi and ask for a 1 v 1 BS fight in FD- local but sissi aint TQ and as such blasters need a buff so they are slightly more effective at a pvp that actually exists on TQ.
My views may reflect those of my corp/alliance, but if you wanna know for sure ask em for gods sake. |
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.03.15 14:42:00 -
[545]
Edited by: NightmareX on 15/03/2009 14:44:46
Edited by: NightmareX on 15/03/2009 14:43:05
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean
Its easy to sit on sissi and ask for a 1 v 1 BS fight in FD- local but sissi aint TQ and as such blasters need a buff so they are slightly more effective at a pvp that actually exists on TQ.
Is it me or do you have a really really big problem with sisi?.
Every damn reply from you now, is with the blah blah from sisi.
Do you want me to call you a sisi noob now because you talk way more about sisi than i do?.
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean
Also reasonably correct, although range matters a lot in gang combat for dealing dmg and especially avoiding dmg.
Yeah resists also matters in gang combat.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
sophisticatedlimabean
Gallente
Delinquent Habits
|
Posted - 2009.03.15 14:44:00 -
[546]
Edited by: sophisticatedlimabean on 15/03/2009 14:44:56
Originally by: NightmareX
clueless rant
/ignore troll
My views may reflect those of my corp/alliance, but if you wanna know for sure ask em for gods sake. |
Happster
Polaris Project
|
Posted - 2009.03.15 14:45:00 -
[547]
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean
Originally by: Happster
A BS fighting in low sec solo has very different roles and attributes then a BS dedicated to dish out dps in a fleet.
I allways try to see BS as in a role. Some are snipers, some are solo bs, some are gang bs. Most of the BS fit in a dedicated role. Usally it is what you as a pilot make out of your BS that will dicated how well you perform.
And here is the main problem as solo BS combat is non-existant on TQ and has been gone for a long time, making the so called "role" of blaster ships also non-existant.
Its easy to sit on sissi and ask for a 1 v 1 BS fight in FD- local but sissi aint TQ and as such blasters need a buff so they are slightly more effective at a pvp that actually exists on TQ.
Ofcourse! The game has evolved and changed. EVE is totally different today then it was 5 years ago. This is what makes people keep playing and keep paying the bill to ccp.
If game had been the same as it was 5 years ago, ccp would not have same amount of costumers as today.
Its either you live and adapt or you fall off and behind.
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sophisticatedlimabean
Gallente
Delinquent Habits
|
Posted - 2009.03.15 14:46:00 -
[548]
Originally by: Happster
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean
Originally by: Happster
A BS fighting in low sec solo has very different roles and attributes then a BS dedicated to dish out dps in a fleet.
I allways try to see BS as in a role. Some are snipers, some are solo bs, some are gang bs. Most of the BS fit in a dedicated role. Usally it is what you as a pilot make out of your BS that will dicated how well you perform.
And here is the main problem as solo BS combat is non-existant on TQ and has been gone for a long time, making the so called "role" of blaster ships also non-existant.
Its easy to sit on sissi and ask for a 1 v 1 BS fight in FD- local but sissi aint TQ and as such blasters need a buff so they are slightly more effective at a pvp that actually exists on TQ.
Ofcourse! The game has evolved and changed. EVE is totally different today then it was 5 years ago. This is what makes people keep playing and keep paying the bill to ccp.
If game had been the same as it was 5 years ago, ccp would not have same amount of costumers as today.
Its either you live and adapt or you fall off and behind.
Exactly.
Blasters need adapting to the game as it is now...
My views may reflect those of my corp/alliance, but if you wanna know for sure ask em for gods sake. |
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.03.15 14:46:00 -
[549]
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean
Edited by: sophisticatedlimabean on 15/03/2009 14:44:56
Originally by: NightmareX
clueless rant
/ignore troll
Yeah just ingore that facts dude.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
sophisticatedlimabean
Gallente
Delinquent Habits
|
Posted - 2009.03.15 14:47:00 -
[550]
Originally by: NightmareX
and yet more worthless off topic troll.
/ignore
My views may reflect those of my corp/alliance, but if you wanna know for sure ask em for gods sake. |
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.03.15 14:49:00 -
[551]
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean
Originally by: NightmareX
and yet more worthless off topic troll.
/ignore
Can i join your 'ignore' fan club?.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
sophisticatedlimabean
Gallente
Delinquent Habits
|
Posted - 2009.03.15 14:50:00 -
[552]
Originally by: NightmareX
and still yet more troll
....
My views may reflect those of my corp/alliance, but if you wanna know for sure ask em for gods sake. |
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.03.15 14:54:00 -
[553]
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean
Originally by: NightmareX
and still yet more troll
....
Question, do you really think your going to get anywhere with the epic spam and trolls you are doing now?. If you do, your in a dream world.
You cannot make me to change my mind anyways.
So try better. Comeon, you can do it.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
sophisticatedlimabean
Gallente
Delinquent Habits
|
Posted - 2009.03.15 14:56:00 -
[554]
Originally by: NightmareX
more clueless troll
/ignore
My views may reflect those of my corp/alliance, but if you wanna know for sure ask em for gods sake. |
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.03.15 14:58:00 -
[555]
Edited by: NightmareX on 15/03/2009 15:00:15
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean
Originally by: NightmareX
more clueless troll
/ignore
Can i ignore you to?.
Damnit, i want to be uber awesome on ignoring to.
Dude, help me to be better at ignoring please.
Ok ok ok, i'm gonna stop now, because this is going nowhere.
Keep on ignoring me please. Because if you ignore me, then i can at least say something here without you open your epic troll mouth.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
sophisticatedlimabean
Gallente
Delinquent Habits
|
Posted - 2009.03.15 14:59:00 -
[556]
Originally by: NightmareX
troll
My views may reflect those of my corp/alliance, but if you wanna know for sure ask em for gods sake. |
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.03.15 15:31:00 -
[557]
Edited by: NightmareX on 15/03/2009 15:31:41
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean
Edited by: sophisticatedlimabean on 15/03/2009 15:11:18
Originally by: NightmareX
yet more true facts that sophisticatedlimabean can't even answer some easy basic questions that we learn in EVE some few weeks after we have started to play EVE for the first time, faaaaaaaaaiiiiiiiil
That's what we are calling:
.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
sophisticatedlimabean
Gallente
Delinquent Habits
|
Posted - 2009.03.15 15:33:00 -
[558]
Originally by: NightmareX
Posting rude and offensive images images and trolling.
Reported.
My views may reflect those of my corp/alliance, but if you wanna know for sure ask em for gods sake. |
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.03.15 15:36:00 -
[559]
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean
Originally by: NightmareX
Posting rude and offensive images images and trolling.
Reported.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Hepren D'narr
Gallente
Downfall inc.
|
Posted - 2009.03.15 15:42:00 -
[560]
Cant you two stop already? You are ruining a good thread cause neither of you wants to back off. Last blaster-thread got locked up cause of OT; dont make it happen to this one too.
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Larsonist
Darkwave Technologies
Doctrine.
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Posted - 2009.03.15 15:59:00 -
[561]
You should definately fly amarr since everyone else is. As a matter of fact im going to start filing petitions to have the other 3 races removed from the game.
Larsonist > i still enjoyed the pew pew though, all the pos sh!t ive been doing lately had me feeling like smeagle without his precious. |
Zubakis
Bambooule
|
Posted - 2009.03.15 16:01:00 -
[562]
Originally by: Happster
A BS fighting in low sec solo has very different roles and attributes then a BS dedicated to dish out dps in a fleet.
I allways try to see BS as in a role. Some are snipers, some are solo bs, some are gang bs. Most of the BS fit in a dedicated role. Usally it is what you as a pilot make out of your BS that will dicated how well you perform.
You said 'solo' and 'BS' in one sentence
Solo is a role of the past.
-- Zuba |
sophisticatedlimabean
Gallente
Delinquent Habits
|
Posted - 2009.03.15 16:04:00 -
[563]
Originally by: Larsonist
You should definately fly amarr since everyone else is. As a matter of fact im going to start filing petitions to have the other 3 races removed from the game.
1 day 6 hours until amarr BS lvl5......
Still i always have gallente BS 5 and blasters trained already if i wanna spam FD- local on sissi for 1 v 1 BS fights.......although i prefer to use sissi for actual testing unlike cetain ppl who use it as their main game server.
My views may reflect those of my corp/alliance, but if you wanna know for sure ask em for gods sake. |
Ig Neus
|
Posted - 2009.03.15 16:06:00 -
[564]
WTB a Banning ability with 2 uses.
Other than that, I think that we have already discussed this more than needed. Each type of gun should have its advantages. Giving more range / optimal to Blasters is not a good idea. If you have to buff them, give them even more damage.
The current Blaster problem, as me and other people have said above, has a lot to do with available ships and current tanking techniques. Buffing Blasters, buffing Hyperion, nerfing buffer tanking, buffing active armor tanking or any combination of the above would fix any problems.
That said, people who generally station camp rejoice. Megathron is still better at that than any Pulse ship. :P
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.03.15 16:06:00 -
[565]
Edited by: NightmareX on 15/03/2009 16:06:37
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean
Originally by: Larsonist
You should definately fly amarr since everyone else is. As a matter of fact im going to start filing petitions to have the other 3 races removed from the game.
1 day 6 hours until amarr BS lvl5......
Still i always have gallente BS 5 and blasters trained already if i wanna spam FD- local on sissi for 1 v 1 BS fights.......although i prefer to use sissi for actual testing unlike cetain ppl who use it as their main game server.
Oh look at the bitter person who can't say anything else than sisi in every replies.
Oh hey sisi warrior.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Larsonist
Darkwave Technologies
Doctrine.
|
Posted - 2009.03.15 16:07:00 -
[566]
Edited by: Larsonist on 15/03/2009 16:08:15
Quote:
The current Blaster problem, as me and other people have said above, has a lot to do with available ships and current tanking techniques. Buffing Blasters, buffing Hyperion, nerfing buffer tanking, buffing active armor tanking or any combination of the above would fix any problems.
Oh wow and here i was thinking it was the fact that webs and mwd(speed) were nerfed on blaster megas causing blasters to somehow suck horridly.
edit: clarification
Larsonist > i still enjoyed the pew pew though, all the pos sh!t ive been doing lately had me feeling like smeagle without his precious. |
sophisticatedlimabean
Gallente
Delinquent Habits
|
Posted - 2009.03.15 16:08:00 -
[567]
Edited by: sophisticatedlimabean on 15/03/2009 16:09:51
Originally by: Ig Neus
WTB a Banning ability with 2 uses.
Other than that, I think that we have already discussed this more than needed. Each type of gun should have its advantages. Giving more range / optimal to Blasters is not a good idea. If you have to buff them, give them even more damage.
WTS reading comprehension.
I had not mentioned more range, just more dmg in the ranges they already do. Do not confuse disagreeing with a silly clueless troll with wanting to give blasters more range.
My views may reflect those of my corp/alliance, but if you wanna know for sure ask em for gods sake. |
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.03.15 16:11:00 -
[568]
Edited by: NightmareX on 15/03/2009 16:15:15
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean
Edited by: sophisticatedlimabean on 15/03/2009 16:09:51
Originally by: Ig Neus
WTB a Banning ability with 2 uses.
Other than that, I think that we have already discussed this more than needed. Each type of gun should have its advantages. Giving more range / optimal to Blasters is not a good idea. If you have to buff them, give them even more damage.
WTS reading comprehension.
I had not mentioned more range, just more dmg in the ranges they already do. Do not confuse disagreeing with a silly clueless troll with wanting to give blasters more range.
Like that's gonna help much.
They still have to use cap and MWD to get to the targets while they gets melted to the uberpwnage Lazorz. Maybe we should boost the cap and the resists on the Gallente BS'es to while we are at it?. So they don't have to lose so much cap and armor when MWDing to the targets. Yeah, riiiiiite?.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
sophisticatedlimabean
Gallente
Delinquent Habits
|
Posted - 2009.03.15 16:15:00 -
[569]
Edited by: sophisticatedlimabean on 15/03/2009 16:15:59
Originally by: NightmareX
Edited by: NightmareX on 15/03/2009 16:12:01
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean
Edited by: sophisticatedlimabean on 15/03/2009 16:09:51
Originally by: Ig Neus
WTB a Banning ability with 2 uses.
Other than that, I think that we have already discussed this more than needed. Each type of gun should have its advantages. Giving more range / optimal to Blasters is not a good idea. If you have to buff them, give them even more damage.
WTS reading comprehension.
I had not mentioned more range, just more dmg in the ranges they already do. Do not confuse disagreeing with a silly clueless troll with wanting to give blasters more range.
Like that's gonna help much.
They still have to use cap and MWD to get to the targets. Maybe we should boost the cap on the Gallente BS'es to while we are at it?. So they don't have to lose so much cap when MWDing.
No need to adjust cap if dmg is boosted as they will be doing more dmg at their longer ranges so will need to mwd less to be effective.....try learning the basics of actual combat before you start trolling and ranting again.
My views may reflect those of my corp/alliance, but if you wanna know for sure ask em for gods sake. |
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.03.15 16:17:00 -
[570]
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean
Originally by: NightmareX
Edited by: NightmareX on 15/03/2009 16:12:01
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean
Edited by: sophisticatedlimabean on 15/03/2009 16:09:51
Originally by: Ig Neus
WTB a Banning ability with 2 uses.
Other than that, I think that we have already discussed this more than needed. Each type of gun should have its advantages. Giving more range / optimal to Blasters is not a good idea. If you have to buff them, give them even more damage.
WTS reading comprehension.
I had not mentioned more range, just more dmg in the ranges they already do. Do not confuse disagreeing with a silly clueless troll with wanting to give blasters more range.
Like that's gonna help much.
They still have to use cap and MWD to get to the targets. Maybe we should boost the cap on the Gallente BS'es to while we are at it?. So they don't have to lose so much cap when MWDing.
No need to adjust cap if dmg is boosted as they will be doing more dmg at their longer ranges so will need to mwd less.....try learning the basics of actual combat before you start ranting again.
But hey, they are still gonna melt to the uberpwnage lasers while they are MWDing to the Amarr bs'es. Maybe we should boost the resists to in top of the cap boost, so they don't die so fast.
Riiiiiight?.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
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Larsonist
Darkwave Technologies
Doctrine.
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Posted - 2009.03.15 16:18:00 -
[571]
Edited by: Larsonist on 15/03/2009 16:20:13
Quote:
No need to adjust cap if dmg is boosted as they will be doing more dmg at their longer ranges so will need to mwd less to be effective.....try learning the basics of actual combat before you start trolling and ranting again.
No need to boost damage as that would cause you to start flying megas again along with everyone else...try learning the basics of nerf bats before you start attempting to swat a supposed troll.
edit: added supposed cause i dont think nightmareX is trolling. HA!
Larsonist > i still enjoyed the pew pew though, all the pos sh!t ive been doing lately had me feeling like smeagle without his precious. |
sophisticatedlimabean
Gallente
Delinquent Habits
|
Posted - 2009.03.15 16:20:00 -
[572]
Originally by: NightmareX
back to emo trolling
My views may reflect those of my corp/alliance, but if you wanna know for sure ask em for gods sake. |
sophisticatedlimabean
Gallente
Delinquent Habits
|
Posted - 2009.03.15 16:21:00 -
[573]
Edited by: sophisticatedlimabean on 15/03/2009 16:21:21
Originally by: Larsonist
Quote:
No need to adjust cap if dmg is boosted as they will be doing more dmg at their longer ranges so will need to mwd less to be effective.....try learning the basics of actual combat before you start trolling and ranting again.
No need to boost damage as that would cause you to start flying megas again along with everyone else.
Yea god forbid they actually become useful in BS gang combat.....
My views may reflect those of my corp/alliance, but if you wanna know for sure ask em for gods sake. |
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.03.15 16:30:00 -
[574]
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean
Originally by: NightmareX
back to emo trolling
Back to post   because you could not answer me.
Yeah good work.
Anyways. Will be back later. Gonna enjoy to see how this topic is going when i'm back.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
sophisticatedlimabean
Gallente
Delinquent Habits
|
Posted - 2009.03.15 16:31:00 -
[575]
Originally by: NightmareX
aaaaaand yet more emo trolling...
My views may reflect those of my corp/alliance, but if you wanna know for sure ask em for gods sake. |
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.03.15 16:33:00 -
[576]
Edited by: NightmareX on 15/03/2009 16:34:31
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean
Originally by: NightmareX
aaaaaand yet more emo trolling...
LALALALALALALALALALALA
Talk to the hand cause the face ain't listening. Like THIS.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
sophisticatedlimabean
Gallente
Delinquent Habits
|
Posted - 2009.03.15 16:34:00 -
[577]
Originally by: NightmareX
...and on and on the empty and pointless emo trolling continues
....
My views may reflect those of my corp/alliance, but if you wanna know for sure ask em for gods sake. |
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.03.15 16:37:00 -
[578]
Edited by: NightmareX on 15/03/2009 16:38:16
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean
Originally by: NightmareX
...and on to the points that whinabean can't answer
....
Again.
I'll wait for the next rabble rabble rabble epic trolling reply from whineabean. Keep going bud.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
sophisticatedlimabean
Gallente
Delinquent Habits
|
Posted - 2009.03.15 16:39:00 -
[579]
Edited by: sophisticatedlimabean on 15/03/2009 16:39:43
Originally by: NightmareX
Rude and abusive images and trolling
....reported....
My views may reflect those of my corp/alliance, but if you wanna know for sure ask em for gods sake. |
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.03.15 16:41:00 -
[580]
Edited by: NightmareX on 15/03/2009 16:44:34
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean
Rude and abusive images and trolling....reported....
Ok fine then. Lets see if i have got any warnings when i'm back later today or tomorrow.
IF i have got some warnings, it's only because i have written something to a big epic troll that have been trolling and spamming so much him self that you have got a warning or a ban your self.
I'M REALLY EXITED ABOUT THAT, YAAAHHHHH.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
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sophisticatedlimabean
Gallente
Delinquent Habits
|
Posted - 2009.03.15 16:45:00 -
[581]
Originally by: NightmareX
TROLL
Reported for off topic harassment/trolling.
My views may reflect those of my corp/alliance, but if you wanna know for sure ask em for gods sake. |
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.03.15 16:46:00 -
[582]
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean
Originally by: NightmareX
TROLL
Reported for off topic harassment/trolling.
Automaticly reported for every off topic / spam / troll reply you made. Even when i don't reply now.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
sophisticatedlimabean
Gallente
Delinquent Habits
|
Posted - 2009.03.15 16:47:00 -
[583]
Originally by: NightmareX
....
Reported for off topic harassment/trolling.
My views may reflect those of my corp/alliance, but if you wanna know for sure ask em for gods sake. |
Chi Quan
Perkone
|
Posted - 2009.03.15 17:09:00 -
[584]
carry on, just bookmarking.
wtb ignore function on forums?
----
Ceterum censeo blasters need some tracking love |
Goumindong
Amarr
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.03.15 17:59:00 -
[585]
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean
I suppose you playing with EFT all the time means you do not know that piulots with good range are always going to be aligned...
I suppose that you then simply haven't figured out how one aligns your battleship. You see, you have to fly in a constant direction at 3/4 of your speed. Now, when you've got hundreds of KM of optimal range this isn't much of a big deal (but you'll still leave combat range). When you have 45km of optimal range it is a big deal. Especially when the battlefield starts off 20km spread out. If you align so that you can warp out before you're tackled and do so then there is no difference between the blaster ship and the laser ship, they both have warp times of zero. The instant they know the fight is lost they can warp out. If they don't know that the fight is lost, either one is as tackled as the other.
Originally by: Ad Valorem
I was talking about a combination of factors,including tracking.
"A combination of factors not listed". What are they and why do they make a difference? Are they those things that I've shown to be non-factors?
Quote:
but you have NO experience and NO evidence to support you point.
Are you aware of the concept of an argument to authority(and ad hom)? You're saying I am wrong because i have no experience. No, if i am wrong i am wrong for logical reasons. And actually i've provided evidence, though you might have had to been paying attention to the bevy of threads that have come up on this to know it. So that ain't your fault.
Quote:
You moaned loudest about getting amarr buffed didn't you? I agreed Amarr needed a buff then
Not the battleships. And who were you if you agreed Amarr needed a buff then, there have been many character portrait imports since then.
Quote:
BTW, words like 'rational examination to come to conclusions' might sound good, but you have NOT done that at all - you don't follow arguments or take anything in context.
show it, don't say it. You've said that i've done none of the sort, but you've not told me why the examinations fail. Why does the examination relating webs and the DPS that ships do while inside them fail? If it doesn't fail, then why are you not accounting for it?
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sophisticatedlimabean
Gallente
Delinquent Habits
|
Posted - 2009.03.15 18:11:00 -
[586]
Edited by: sophisticatedlimabean on 15/03/2009 18:16:54
Originally by: Goumindong
I suppose that you then simply haven't figured out how one aligns your battleship. You see, you have to fly in a constant direction at 3/4 of your speed. Now, when you've got hundreds of KM of optimal range this isn't much of a big deal (but you'll still leave combat range). When you have 45km of optimal range it is a big deal.
You do not need to be at 3/4 speed to be aligned you only need to be at 3/4 to warp, and you can alternate align points to help you stay in range if you need to.
Also there is the fact that ships with lower range will be heading towards you to get into range so its not likley your gonna get out of range while they do that....
See your all numbers no xp....
Originally by: Goumindong
Are you aware of the concept of an argument to authority(and ad hom)? You're saying I am wrong because i have no experience. No, if i am wrong i am wrong for logical reasons. And actually i've provided evidence.
You never provide evidence you only speculate about unrealistic abilities you "think" certain ships have even though you have never flown them.
My views may reflect those of my corp/alliance, but if you wanna know for sure ask em for gods sake. |
Goumindong
Amarr
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.03.15 18:18:00 -
[587]
Originally by: Happster
At this senario i have to agree that the lasers are THE weapon to use. As range doesnt really matter much.
Actually its Drones, out of a Dominix. You get the most use for repping out of your high slots, and the most usable DPS to the most ranges with massive amounts of tank. You're least susceptable to ECM in your ability to do damage and have flexibility over the entire range of options.
Quote:
In such a gang, the neuts on your pest will not matter. The ecm on your pest will not matter. All that will matter is dps and EHP and RR
You can put 2 RR in the pests highs, which leaves your drones free to do what you want with them while still getting the same repping efficiency as a 1 lar/5x heavy armor rep bot battleship. Doensn't necessarily make it better, but it doesn't make it worse either.
Quote:
If your camping a gate, jumping in a gate, the distance to your target will not matter as the tackler will tackle, all you have to do is lock and get close to your rr buddies.
It absolutely matters. If the target is outside of your range you cannot kill him. If the target is inside of your range and close to the gate, the shorter range weapons are more efficient.
As well there are other issues of range that will allow your target easier escape. For instance if they're sitting on the gate they have an easier time escaping.
Of course, talking about "escape" is kinda academic, i am assuming here that were talking about two gangs that think they can fight each other. When one side overwhelms the other one side doesn't attempt to engage at all and will attempt to escape the easiest. In that situation there is no difference between the ships in their ability to escape.
Note: Not disagreeing with you specifically, or your conclusions, just clarifying and correcting somet things that need to be clarified and corrected.
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean
Perhaps but in gang combat omni tanks and dmg types are no as big of a issue as they are in 1 v 1.
No, in gang combat omni tanks and damage types are just as big an issue as they are in 1v1. Repping tanks are not as big a deal as they are in 1v1 (or similarly small combat situations where DPS does not exceed buffer/rep efficiency break points).
But damage types matter just as much as EHP/DPS. This is mainly because damage types and omni tanks are multipliers to DPS/EHP as they effect other ships. To claim that it has no effect or little effect is to claim that DPS and EHP are not important in gang combat.
Clearly that is foolish.
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Goumindong
Amarr
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.03.15 18:22:00 -
[588]
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean
You do not need to be at 3/4 speed to be aligned you only need to be at 3/4 to warp, and you can alternate align points to help you stay in range if you need to.
1. Do you even know what "aligning" is? A: Its traveling in a single direction fast enough that you will warp as soon as you click the warp button.
2. Sometimes you can, sometimes you can't, depends on the gate. It also ensures that your starting distance can be much too close for comfort(or you're not going to be able to engage half the battlefield)
Quote:
Also there is the fact that ships with lower range will be heading towards you to get into range so its not likley your gonna get out of range while they do that....
They're only going to be doing that if they think they can win the fight... And if that is the case, then the battelships that are aligned aren't going to be warping and will be tackled. These aren't sniper battleships, you can't make a long determination while your HAC anti-support protects your fleet from warp ins.
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CCP Mitnal
C C P
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Posted - 2009.03.15 18:37:00 -
[589]
Cleaned.
If you wish to indulge in a personal argument, do so using in game methods of communication. Carrying one on the forums does not help discussion and leads to pages of pointless posts.
Mitnal
Community Representative
CCP Hf, EVE Online
Email |
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maralt
Minmatar
The seers of truth
|
Posted - 2009.03.15 18:48:00 -
[590]
Edited by: maralt on 15/03/2009 18:56:14
Originally by: Goumindong
1. Do you even know what "aligning" is? A: Its traveling in a single direction fast enough that you will warp as soon as you click the warp button.
Only amateurs and the inexperienced align at warp speed when they do not need to, it does not surprise me in the lest that you did not know that.
Originally by: Goumindong
2. Sometimes you can, sometimes you can't, depends on the gate. It also ensures that your starting distance can be much too close for comfort(or you're not going to be able to engage half the battlefield)
Its a option that ships that need to constantly be at close range NEVER have.
Originally by: Goumindong
They're only going to be doing that if they think they can win the fight...
A poor avoidance of the point, nobody fights unless they think they are gonna win, unless they are getting ganked and then they have lost anyway.
Originally by: Goumindong
No, in gang combat omni tanks and damage types are just as big an issue as they are in 1v1.
Rubbish, a single BS may be able to tank another single BS with its buffer tank long enough to get into range and put up a good fight or even win due to higher relative resists to dmg types.
But in gang combat there can be 10-20+ BS all pounding on each primary making the dmg types and resists virtually irrelevant and tanking long enough to even get into range imposable.
Your gang combat experience is sadly lacking if you do not understand these basics, well either that or your just a amarr fanboi looking for weak excuses to stay way more powerful than the other races.......
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Djerin
Free-Space-Ranger
Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.03.15 21:12:00 -
[591]
Originally by: maralt
But in gang combat there can be 10-20+ BS all pounding on each primary making the dmg types and resists virtually irrelevant and tanking long enough to even get into range imposable...
Actually the Goon is right. Resistances and damage types do matter in gang warfare. It's just not as obvious because both are statistically evened out between the gangs usually. But if you're clever you consider them when choosing your target. Arguably the difference isn't really huge and you'll only really now the targets resists when you get the killmail. Making the better decisions is much, much more important.
I'm pretty much Gallente specced and I don't feel particularly doomed right now. True, an Amarr BS can be superior if fitted correctly. But that requires both good skills and willingness to spend some iskies. And of course you gotta use it properly. That's pretty theoretical to me. Of course sometimes you think like 'damn, I could have been top damage dealer on that mail with a Geddon' or something. But seriously, if I started to train that fotm now I'd guarantee you they'd nerf it as soon as I rigged my first Abbadon, lol.
----
Sarmaul's crosstrainorgtfo |
maralt
Minmatar
The seers of truth
|
Posted - 2009.03.15 21:30:00 -
[592]
Originally by: Djerin
Actually the Goon is right. Resistances and damage types do matter in gang warfare. It's just not as obvious because both are statistically evened out between the gangs usually. But if you're clever you consider them when choosing your target. Arguably the difference isn't really huge and you'll only really now the targets resists when you get the killmail. Making the better decisions is much, much more important.
Seriously dude if you consider resists when you choose your primary target in combat i suggest you have a good isk base before you pvp because you are gonna lose a lot of fights. The fact is that in most close range BS combat fights that ships on the top of the killmail are almost always amarr BS.
I have pvp'd a lot over the years and while i may consider ehp or maybe choose a T1 cruiser as primary instead of a T2 ship when i am doing hit and run combat cos it will die quicker i never have thought about deciding on a target in BS gang combat because of what its onmi resists may be.
Sorry i just think that considering the topic that what you are saying is a streach.
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Djerin
Free-Space-Ranger
Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.03.15 22:40:00 -
[593]
Dude seriously, I think you misunderstood my post. Thanks for your suggestions though even if I don't think I'll need them...
----
Sarmaul's crosstrainorgtfo |
Trader20
|
Posted - 2009.03.15 23:06:00 -
[594]
Originally by: NightmareX
Edited by: NightmareX on 15/03/2009 14:40:57
Happster, yes it was just one example on what you can do with a Tempest.
There is tons of things you can do with a Tempest in a fleet fight.
With one ECCM and with 2x large remote armor reps for example, it can be very usefull in a RR BS gang. When the ECCM works, then it's really funny.
Heheh, now i'm waiting for sophisticatedlimabean to go omgomg reported for going off topic. But in fact, if you read the first reply to the OP, then we are free to give him some recommendation on other than just Blaster ships.
Yea but a domi can rr armor better (can fit more of a buffer tank),has a higher sensor strength (so eccm is more effective), and is cheaper.
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Trader20
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Posted - 2009.03.15 23:09:00 -
[595]
Edited by: Trader20 on 15/03/2009 23:10:55
Originally by: maralt
Originally by: Djerin
Actually the Goon is right. Resistances and damage types do matter in gang warfare. It's just not as obvious because both are statistically evened out between the gangs usually. But if you're clever you consider them when choosing your target. Arguably the difference isn't really huge and you'll only really now the targets resists when you get the killmail. Making the better decisions is much, much more important.
Seriously dude if you consider resists when you choose your primary target in combat i suggest you have a good isk base before you pvp because you are gonna lose a lot of fights. The fact is that in most close range BS combat fights that ships on the top of the killmail are almost always amarr BS.
I have pvp'd a lot over the years and while i may consider ehp or maybe choose a T1 cruiser as primary instead of a T2 ship when i am doing hit and run combat cos it will die quicker i never have thought about deciding on a target in BS gang combat because of what its onmi resists may be.
Sorry i just think that considering the topic that what you are saying is a streach.
But the fact is most omni armor tanks (pretty much every pvp ship) has it's highest resist vs em, and when a mega and a poc are shootin at a target, the mega will always have more damage dealt because of resist. Now if the mega is out of range and has to mwd in to deal damage well....thats a whole different story.
Kinda makes you wish they would come out with a module that could let you hotdrop a bs right ontop of the targets. Mini cyno anyone?
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Goumindong
Amarr
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.03.16 07:39:00 -
[596]
Originally by: maralt
The fact is that in most close range BS combat fights that ships on the top of the killmail are almost always amarr BS.
This is mainly due to the way that killmails are formatted.
You see, there are three layers of a ships hit points, shields, armor, and structure. Each one has its own resistances and ends up with its own amount of effective hit points.
When you're looking to kill a ship, the amount of effective hit points you remove is what matters. But when the game calculates the damage that you do for a killmail, it only looks at the raw damage after resistances.
So what does that mean when were talking about "who is on top of the killmail?". Well, for armor tanked ships it means that whomever hits first and strips the untanked shield away is going to have a thousands of damage advantage over the rest of the ships, especially if they're doing EM damage.
What that means is that Amarr ships might not make the target die sooner than it would have otherwise even if they can get on top of the killmail easier due to the way that killmails total damage.
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Goumindong
Amarr
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.03.16 07:50:00 -
[597]
Originally by: maralt
Only amateurs and the inexperienced align at warp speed when they do not need to, it does not surprise me in the least that you did not know that.
Any time you're not aligned at warp speed you're giving the enemy more time to attack you. You've got to sit somewhere and its got to be at some velocity(if its not, then you're not changing the time it takes you to align). So no matter what you're doing you're cutting down on your window.
Quote:
"much too close for comfort"Very Happy....you mean the ranges blaster ships ALWAYS need to be in????...you just owned yourself..Laughing
The middle ranges off a gate are the most dangerous. The farther you are the easier it is to warp off before being tackled, the closer you are the easier it is to deaggress and jump through(or simply not aggress and jump through).
When you're in the middle of those ranges, which you're going to be with the proposed laser ship(unless you fancy giving up your range advantage), then you're in a more dangerous position.
Quote:
A poor avoidance of the point, nobody fights unless they think they are gonna win, unless they are getting ganked and then they have lost anyway.
A poor avoidance of what? I explained how each ship will leave the battlefield. Bean claimed that laser ships have an easier time leaving the fight. I explained that they have the same ability to leave the fight when they don't want to fight, the only change is when they do want to fight. But in those situations, the ship off the gate is in the most danger, and the difference in the ability to tackle any of them is zero, making his claim false.
Quote:
But in gang combat there can be 10-20+ BS all pounding on each primary making the dmg types and resists virtually irrelevant and tanking long enough to even get into range imposable.
You heard it here first folks. Maralt saying, "The EHP of the opposing ships and the DPS that you do is irrelevant".
Frankly i don't think that is true. DPS is always relevant and anything that changes the amount of DPS you're doing is therefore relevant. EHP is always relevant and anything that changes the ability of your ship to eat damage before it dies is always relevant.
You might as well say that the falloff on blaster ships is irrelevant because when 20 neutron hyps are shooting at you even if you're 30km away you're still gonna die... Yea, we'll you're gonna die slower and that matters to the other ships you're playing with. Resists have the exact same effect.
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maralt
Minmatar
The seers of truth
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Posted - 2009.03.16 10:52:00 -
[598]
Originally by: Goumindong
No, in gang combat omni tanks and damage types are just as big an issue as they are in 1v1.
Originally by: maralt
Rubbish, a single BS may be able to tank another single BS with its buffer tank long enough to get into range and put up a good fight or even win due to higher relative resists to dmg types.
But in gang combat there can be 10-20+ BS all pounding on each primary making the dmg types and resists virtually irrelevant and tanking long enough to even get into range imposable.
Originally by: Goumindong
You heard it here first folks. Maralt saying, "The EHP of the opposing ships and the DPS that you do is irrelevant".
Posting my full quote and cwhat it was in rply to as reference to show how manipulative goumindong is.
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Traderboz
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Posted - 2009.03.16 11:20:00 -
[599]
Damage types, resists, DPS, all these things matter in gangs. Damage types are relevant because they influence your actual DPS (i.e. not theoretical max DPS). Resists matter because they impact your actual damage taken. It's just that one ship's weapon damage types are less noticeable in a gang of say 10 people, because you're only one of many. It's much easier to tell the difference when it's 1v1 (SiSi warriors HO!), but that doesn't mean it somehow disappears in larger engagements. It might not matter as much, but it's still there.
Now, the question of how to weight information like damage types is up for discussion (I tend to think it's probably). As to whether that and the higher base DPS offsets the need to fly into range with a BB (rather than just loading scorch), well, you decide, haha.
What I'd like to see is less comparison to lasers and more to things like projectiles/torps. Honestly there isn't much at the moment that compares well against lasers (is anyone going to tell me that large autocannons and mega pulse lasers are perfectly balanced?), but how about Megathron compared to Tempest? I know "nerf lasers" is a touchy subject since they only fairly recently got buffed, haha, but I think Nightmare does have a point when saying it's easier to nerf 1 weapon than buff 3.
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Sir Substance
Minmatar
MagiTech Alliance Inc.
MagiTech Corp
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Posted - 2009.03.16 11:35:00 -
[600]
Originally by: heslookinatu
Originally by: Furb Killer
If you just want the best it isnt even close, go amarr.
Not interested in the FOTM best i figured the post made that pretty clear.
oh, for christ sakes. well hell, blasters are as non-FOTM as you can get, stay with them!
just because amarr are FOTM doesnt mean there is anything bad with training them. ive got some SP in amarr guns, best SP i ever spent.
even if amarr get nerfed into obscurity next week, those lasers will still serve you well in missions, where the lack of ammo replacement requirements means you can easily salvage as you go!
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maralt
Minmatar
The seers of truth
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Posted - 2009.03.16 11:35:00 -
[601]
Edited by: maralt on 16/03/2009 11:38:28
Originally by: Traderboz
It's much easier to tell the difference when it's 1v1 (SiSi warriors HO!), but that doesn't mean it somehow disappears in larger engagements. It might not matter as much, but it's still there.
Hence i used the words "virtually" irrelevant...that gormie once again conveniently ignored...
Originally by: Traderboz
What I'd like to see is less comparison to lasers and more to things like projectiles/torps. Honestly there isn't much at the moment that compares well against lasers (is anyone going to tell me that large autocannons and mega pulse lasers are perfectly balanced?), but how about Megathron compared to Tempest? I know "nerf lasers" is a touchy subject since they only fairly recently got buffed, haha, but I think Nightmare does have a point when saying it's easier to nerf 1 weapon than buff 3.
It may SEEM easier but its also short sighted, narrow minded and very limited in its view of the game.
Q. Will nerfing BS lasers fix the issues with BS blasters?.
A. It depends how its done i suppose but i doubt it as blasters are the system with the problem and that problem is relative to the available pvp for BS and how the game is played now.
The game has moved on and BS lasers that were already highly suited to the changes have also had buffs to make them even more effective in the modern game, while BS blasters and the ships that use them have been left out in the cold.
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Traderboz
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Posted - 2009.03.16 11:44:00 -
[602]
I do tend to agree that "easy" probably isn't the best word, haha, and shouldn't be the primary concern when balancing the game. Lasers at the moment are great to use, so perhaps instead of nerfing them it would just be better to tweak the other weapon systems.
Nonetheless, discussion comparing blasters to other weapon systems would be useful I think. Not every pilot flies Amarr, even though they are FOTM.
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maralt
Minmatar
The seers of truth
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Posted - 2009.03.16 11:57:00 -
[603]
Originally by: Traderboz
I do tend to agree that "easy" probably isn't the best word, haha, and shouldn't be the primary concern when balancing the game. Lasers at the moment are great to use, so perhaps instead of nerfing them it would just be better to tweak the other weapon systems.
I think so to.
Originally by: Traderboz
Nonetheless, discussion comparing blasters to other weapon systems would be useful I think. Not every pilot flies Amarr, even though they are FOTM.
Not every pilot has finished training them yet......and of course i am really referring to BS close range gang combat.
Amarr BS lvl5 finishes at around 7pm today....yay...
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Bellum Eternus
Gallente
Death of Virtue
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Posted - 2009.03.16 13:15:00 -
[604]
Lol. People are still arguing about this?
Blasters don't do enough peak DPS to justify their user over any other weapon type, including autocannons, and they don't have enough tracking to perform well at their optimal range.
Tl;dr: they suck when compared to other weapon systems. What is so hard to understand about that?
Lasers do as good or better than blasters vs. 'omni tanks'. Heck, with most of my current tank setups, EM resistance is usually the lowest of the four. Nightmare doesn't know wtf he's talking about.
With lasers and torps doing so much more DPS at range than blasters do at point blank Goumindong doesn't know wtf he's talking about either.
I'm half tempted to make a DHP Megathron just to shut people up.
Bellum Eternus
Inveniam viam aut faciam.
Death of Virtue is Recruiting
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Goumindong
Amarr
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.03.16 16:11:00 -
[605]
Edited by: Goumindong on 16/03/2009 16:12:06
Originally by: maralt
Hence i used the words "virtually" irrelevant...that gormie once again conveniently ignored...
Except that its not "virtually" irrelevant, its not "irrelevant" at all. Its just as important as any other factor affecting DPS and EHP.
Originally by: Bellum Eternus
Heck, with most of my current tank setups, EM resistance is usually the lowest of the four
Your inability to fit an efficient tank, or ability to predict what your enemies will be flying with is not relevant to the discussion.
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Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
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Posted - 2009.03.16 16:20:00 -
[606]
Edited by: Electric Universe on 16/03/2009 16:25:23
Originally by: Bellum Eternus
Lol. People are still arguing about this?
Blasters don't do enough peak DPS to justify their user over any other weapon type, including autocannons, and they don't have enough tracking to perform well at their optimal range.
Tl;dr: they suck when compared to other weapon systems. What is so hard to understand about that?
Lasers do as good or better than blasters vs. 'omni tanks'. Heck, with most of my current tank setups, EM resistance is usually the lowest of the four. Nightmare doesn't know wtf he's talking about.
With lasers and torps doing so much more DPS at range than blasters do at point blank Goumindong doesn't know wtf he's talking about either.
I'm half tempted to make a DHP Megathron just to shut people up.
So if your any smart as you say. Then explain why does both Megathron and Tempest or other battleships have EM and probably the Thermal as the highest resists when they are using armor omni tanks?.
Because of the armor omni tank resists, a Blaster Mega does about 30% more DPS than a Pulse Geddon or Abaddon does in web range. No wonder why Amarr ships have more EHP than any other BS'es. They just don't get the EHP bonuses for no reasons.
And when a gank geddon or a gank Abaddon can't manage to break a 1x Large Armor Repairer II, 1x Damage Control II, 2x EANM II's and 1x 1600mm Plate Tempest as long the Tempest have cap, then no, sorry to say it, but the Laser DPS is not as good as the FOTM players says it are.
If 30% more DPS isn't enough advantage in web range for a Blaster Mega, then i don't know. But for me, someone seems to think and want the Megathron to be the ultimate badass pwner like it was before.
The time when the Mega was that IS OVER. Every battleships is balanced so one battleships can't just pwn the hell out of another battleship, like a Mega did long time ago. The battleships today is balanced so they should last equally long.
And each of the BS'es have it's own advantages that makes the ships good in it's own ways.
Now Bellum, i'am wrong about this?. If yes, then explain me what i have told here that is wrong.
Oh btw, both NightmareX and Goum is very right about many things here. Specially when it's about the omni tanks and the resists. And also, NightmareX is totally right about the Lasers. Lasers is not that important that 3 other weapons systems have to be boosted just so they can get in the same boat as Lasers.
Sorry, CCP will never do that.
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maralt
Minmatar
The seers of truth
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Posted - 2009.03.16 16:43:00 -
[607]
Edited by: maralt on 16/03/2009 16:44:38
Originally by: Electric Universe
Because of the armor omni tank resists, a Blaster Mega does about 30% more DPS than a Pulse Geddon or Abaddon does in web range.
And when a gank geddon or a gank Abaddon can't manage to break a 1x Large Armor Repairer II, 1x Damage Control II, 2x EANM II's and 1x 1600mm Plate Tempest as long the Tempest have cap, then no, sorry to say it, but the Laser DPS is not as good as the FOTM players says it are.
You are missing the point of this thread as anybody can quote 1 v 1 BS fits that are effective at tanking a single BS. The ammo DMG reduction a while back among other things made it so active tanking is always effective at tanking incoming DMG from a single BS while a ships cap lasts.
Originally by: Electric Universe
If 30% more DPS isn't enough advantage in web range for a Blaster Mega, then i don't know. But for me, someone seems to think and want the Megathron to be the ultimate badass pwner like it was before.
Firstly you must consider the fact that the 30% more dmg is easily off set by the 50% more EHP laser BS get, then you must factor in the instant ammo change and last but most certainly not least blaster optimal is 4.5km while laser optimal is 45km so there is a 1000% more optimal on top of the other factors.
Originally by: Electric Universe
The time when the Mega was that IS OVER. Every battleships is balanced so one battleships can't just pwn the hell out of another battleship, like a Mega did long time ago. The battleships today is balanced so they should last equally long.
And this is the problem as in its 4.5km optimal the blaster battleship is supposed to be pwning the hell out of every other BS in a 1 v 1 situation, that was its role and now not only is the 1 v 1 BS combat a form of pvp that is no longer done any more. But as you clearly point out the blaster ship no longer has the advantage it is supposed to have.
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Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
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Posted - 2009.03.16 16:50:00 -
[608]
Edited by: Electric Universe on 16/03/2009 16:52:54
Originally by: maralt
Edited by: maralt on 16/03/2009 16:44:38
Originally by: Electric Universe
Because of the armor omni tank resists, a Blaster Mega does about 30% more DPS than a Pulse Geddon or Abaddon does in web range.
And when a gank geddon or a gank Abaddon can't manage to break a 1x Large Armor Repairer II, 1x Damage Control II, 2x EANM II's and 1x 1600mm Plate Tempest as long the Tempest have cap, then no, sorry to say it, but the Laser DPS is not as good as the FOTM players says it are.
You are missing the point of this thread as anybody can quote 1 v 1 BS fits that are effective at tanking a single BS. The ammo DMG reduction a while back among other things made it so active tanking is always effective at tanking incoming DMG from a single BS while a ships cap lasts.
Originally by: Electric Universe
If 30% more DPS isn't enough advantage in web range for a Blaster Mega, then i don't know. But for me, someone seems to think and want the Megathron to be the ultimate badass pwner like it was before.
Firstly you must consider the fact that the 30% more dmg is easily off set by the 50% more EHP laser BS get, then you must factor in the instant ammo change and last but most certainly not least blaster optimal is 4.5km while laser optimal is 45km so there is a 1000% more optimal on top of the other factors.
Originally by: Electric Universe
The time when the Mega was that IS OVER. Every battleships is balanced so one battleships can't just pwn the hell out of another battleship, like a Mega did long time ago. The battleships today is balanced so they should last equally long.
And this is the problem as in its 4.5km optimal the blaster battleship is supposed to be pwning the hell out of every other BS in a 1 v 1 situation, that was its role and now not only is the 1 v 1 BS combat a form of pvp that is no longer done any more. But as you clearly point out the blaster ship no longer has the advantage it is supposed to have.
I have readed your whine in this topic, and do you really think there is a point to tell you something?.
If you say that resists doesn't have anything to say, then let me just say one thing, your dumb. Simple as that.
Every damn PVPer knows that resists are as much important than EHP and DPS.
I don't know how many in this topic that have told you that, but it's not few.
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Ephemeron
North Eastern Swat
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.03.16 17:00:00 -
[609]
If blasters really had 30% more damage than lasers - then there would be no room to complain, at all.
Even a 20% damage advantage would be sufficient to differentiate blasters as "the most damaging weapons in EVE".
But the real damage advantage of blasters is much smaller, and in fact it is simple to calculate:
Both mega pulse and neutrons have rate of fire as 7.88 sec. The damage modifier difference is:
mega pulse II: 3.6
neutron blaster II: 4.2
Therefore, the percentage by which neutron blaster damage is bigger than mega pulse is: 16.67%
Is 16.7% extra damage really worth the extreme CPU requirement, the bad tracking, the bad optimal range and barely enough falloff to do 50% damage at 15 km?
That 16.67% damage advantage evaporates as soon as you get just 2-3 km out of your optimal.
So yea, a 30% damage advantage would definitely make it worthwhile, but the current one is just not significant enough.
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Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
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Posted - 2009.03.16 17:04:00 -
[610]
Originally by: Ephemeron
If blasters really had 30% more damage than lasers - then there would be no room to complain, at all.
Even a 20% damage advantage would be sufficient to differentiate blasters as "the most damaging weapons in EVE".
But the real damage advantage of blasters is much smaller, and in fact it is simple to calculate:
Both mega pulse and neutrons have rate of fire as 7.88 sec. The damage modifier difference is:
mega pulse II: 3.6
neutron blaster II: 4.2
Therefore, the percentage by which neutron blaster damage is bigger than mega pulse is: 16.67%
Is 16.7% extra damage really worth the extreme CPU requirement, the bad tracking, the bad optimal range and barely enough falloff to do 50% damage at 15 km?
That 16.67% damage advantage evaporates as soon as you get just 2-3 km out of your optimal.
So yea, a 30% damage advantage would definitely make it worthwhile, but the current one is just not significant enough.
Yeh, by looking at the gun stats, they have 16.67% damage advantage.
But take in the omni tanks into the picture, then how much better will the % get then?.
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cucac
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Posted - 2009.03.16 17:18:00 -
[611]
Originally by: Electric Universe
Originally by: Ephemeron
If blasters really had 30% more damage than lasers - then there would be no room to complain, at all.
Even a 20% damage advantage would be sufficient to differentiate blasters as "the most damaging weapons in EVE".
But the real damage advantage of blasters is much smaller, and in fact it is simple to calculate:
Both mega pulse and neutrons have rate of fire as 7.88 sec. The damage modifier difference is:
mega pulse II: 3.6
neutron blaster II: 4.2
Therefore, the percentage by which neutron blaster damage is bigger than mega pulse is: 16.67%
Is 16.7% extra damage really worth the extreme CPU requirement, the bad tracking, the bad optimal range and barely enough falloff to do 50% damage at 15 km?
That 16.67% damage advantage evaporates as soon as you get just 2-3 km out of your optimal.
So yea, a 30% damage advantage would definitely make it worthwhile, but the current one is just not significant enough.
Yeh, by looking at the gun stats, they have 16.67% damage advantage.
But take in the omni tanks into the picture, then how much better will the % get then?.
Doesn't OMNItank means same resist for all ? 1 hardener +- in individual fitting and there goes your advantage. 16% really doesn't cover the range difference, not to mention that even when blasters are in optimal, they have problems with tracking.
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maralt
Minmatar
The seers of truth
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Posted - 2009.03.16 17:25:00 -
[612]
Originally by: cucac
Doesn't OMNItank means same resist for all ? 1 hardener +- in individual fitting and there goes your advantage. 16% really doesn't cover the range difference, not to mention that even when blasters are in optimal, they have problems with tracking.
The standard 2 x eanm, 1 x dcu, plate buffer tank gives EM as its highest resisted DMG and so reduces lasers that do EM thermal dmg to doing 30% less dmg than blasters that do kinetic and thermal damage.
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Ephemeron
North Eastern Swat
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.03.16 17:38:00 -
[613]
Originally by: Electric Universe
Yeh, by looking at the gun stats, they have 16.67% damage advantage.
But take in the omni tanks into the picture, then how much better will the % get then?.
It is a mistake to lose yourself in the specifics when there are 1000s of different possibilities. I believe this is the main reason why this discussion will never end - people get too caught up in specifics.
There's a different way to look at it: if omni tanks are indeed some kind of problem, start a thread about them and discuss how they impact the game, and whether they should be adjusted or not. But in this thread we are just comparing gun stats and performance in general, not just on omni tanks.
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Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
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Posted - 2009.03.16 17:48:00 -
[614]
Edited by: Electric Universe on 16/03/2009 17:49:55
Originally by: Ephemeron
Originally by: Electric Universe
Yeh, by looking at the gun stats, they have 16.67% damage advantage.
But take in the omni tanks into the picture, then how much better will the % get then?.
It is a mistake to lose yourself in the specifics when there are 1000s of different possibilities. I believe this is the main reason why this discussion will never end - people get too caught up in specifics.
There's a different way to look at it: if omni tanks are indeed some kind of problem, start a thread about them and discuss how they impact the game, and whether they should be adjusted or not. But in this thread we are just comparing gun stats and performance in general, not just on omni tanks.
We cannot just compare gun stats. Well we can, but then things doesn't get right at all when we compare the different ships and weapons etc.
Anyways, if we only compare the gun stats, then Blasters (Neutrons) does 16.7% more DPS than Lasers (Pulses) before any resists. And for me, that is an enough advantage for Neutrons when you get into web range.
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Ephemeron
North Eastern Swat
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.03.16 18:44:00 -
[615]
The way I see it, neutron blasters should have 25% more damage than mega pulse, not 16.&%
That's an overall 10% increase.
Unlike blasters, mega pulse have great range versatility - up to 46 km optimal range. Also, as mentioned before, neutron blasters have big CPU fitting requirement which makes it much more difficult to fit than mega pulse or ACs.
If you take all the possible combat engagements and average them out - lasers will have more damage on the enemy, mostly due to range advantages. Only a small portion of possible engagements benefits blasters more than lasers.
We don't need a big change to blasters or other weapons. Just a small boost
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Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
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Posted - 2009.03.16 18:52:00 -
[616]
Edited by: Electric Universe on 16/03/2009 18:55:53
Originally by: Ephemeron
The way I see it, neutron blasters should have 25% more damage than mega pulse, not 16.&%
That's an overall 10% increase.
Unlike blasters, mega pulse have great range versatility - up to 46 km optimal range. Also, as mentioned before, neutron blasters have big CPU fitting requirement which makes it much more difficult to fit than mega pulse or ACs.
If you take all the possible combat engagements and average them out - lasers will have more damage on the enemy, mostly due to range advantages. Only a small portion of possible engagements benefits blasters more than lasers.
We don't need a big change to blasters or other weapons. Just a small boost
I see some of you points Ephemeron. But still, the Lasers only have the range advantage, also that they do a bit more DPS from 20 km up to 45 km.
The resists are there anyways, and the Lasers can't just kill ships faster because they are many with Lasers, even at range. The resists are still resists.
Without resists a BS will pop in 2-3 secs to a gang of 10 BS'es. With the resists added, they will last a bit longer.
Yes they will have way more chance to win if the other gang have to MWD closer to them. That's why i say Lasers only have a range advantage.
What happens if a gang with Blaster BS'es warps in on top of the ships with Lasers?, yes they gets blasted to hell and back in no time.
With Blaster ships, you have to warp in as closest as possible to the targets and with Lasers you have to warp into the targets at more range, so they have to MWD and get more damaged before they get to the Lasers ships.
That's what we are called, advantages on it's own ways.
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Ephemeron
North Eastern Swat
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.03.16 19:02:00 -
[617]
I also look at it this way:
if another 10% pure damage boost to blasters is considered unbalanced, then game balance should be restored by a slight nerf to blaster tracking and/or optimal and falloff ranges.
That type of balancing emphasizes blaster role as the ultimate short range weapon. It makes different weapon roles more clearly defined, something that seems to be lacking right now.
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Trader20
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Posted - 2009.03.16 19:04:00 -
[618]
Edited by: Trader20 on 16/03/2009 19:05:09
Originally by: Bellum Eternus
Lol. People are still arguing about this?
Blasters don't do enough peak DPS to justify their user over any other weapon type, including autocannons, and they don't have enough tracking to perform well at their optimal range.
Tl;dr: they suck when compared to other weapon systems. What is so hard to understand about that?
Lasers do as good or better than blasters vs. 'omni tanks'. Heck, with most of my current tank setups, EM resistance is usually the lowest of the four. Nightmare doesn't know wtf he's talking about.
With lasers and torps doing so much more DPS at range than blasters do at point blank Goumindong doesn't know wtf he's talking about either.
I'm half tempted to make a DHP Megathron just to shut people up.
Blasters don't have enough tracking to perform well at their optimal range? lol... If your in optimal range and ur using blasters the target should be dual webbed/scrammed anyway so tracking is a non-issue to any good blaster pilot. The problem is gettin into blaster optimal.
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maralt
Minmatar
The seers of truth
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Posted - 2009.03.16 19:08:00 -
[619]
Originally by: Electric Universe
I see some of you points Ephemeron. But still, the Lasers only have the range advantage, also that they do a bit more DPS from 20 km up to 45 km.
That is rather misleading as a fitted abaddon does 730 gun dps out to 45km + fall off while blasters do 0.
Originally by: Electric Universe
What happens if a gang with a lot of Blaster BS'es warps in on top of the ships with Lasers or other ships?, yes they gets blasted to hell and back in no time.
Considering they only do 30% more dmg against omni tanks and the abaddons have 37% more EHP then even if the laser ships do not burn away and just sit still like idiots they are going to be close to equal and even if the blaster ships win they are going to take very heavy losses even in the best case scenario for the blaster ships.
Now on the other hand if you start the fight at 40km with bubbles and the laser ships will hardly take a loss while the blaster ships get melted.
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Mag's
the united
Negative Ten.
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Posted - 2009.03.16 19:09:00 -
[620]
Originally by: Electric Universe
That's why i say Lasers only have a range advantage.
Doesn't a range advantage equate to a damage advantage?
Oh and that 16% figure, I just don't see it. (I may have very dark glasses on atm)
Lasers track far better at their optimal than Blaster, so that figure doesn't fit.
Lasers are hitting for more damage over time than Blasters, unless ofc you're lucky and land right on the target.
Even then, the small extra damage just doesn't justify the use of blasters.
I still love the 'in your face' attitude of blasters ship, but it's lost it's edge and definition.
Regards
Mag's |
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Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
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Posted - 2009.03.16 19:09:00 -
[621]
Originally by: Ephemeron
I also look at it this way:
if another 10% pure damage boost to blasters is considered unbalanced, then game balance should be restored by a slight nerf to blaster tracking and/or optimal and falloff ranges.
That type of balancing emphasizes blaster role as the ultimate short range weapon. It makes different weapon roles more clearly defined, something that seems to be lacking right now.
Still, around 30% more DPS for Neutrons over Pulses in web range with an omni tank should be enough anyways.
Nothing more to add to that.
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Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
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Posted - 2009.03.16 19:12:00 -
[622]
Originally by: Mag's
Originally by: Electric Universe
That's why i say Lasers only have a range advantage.
Doesn't a range advantage equate to a damage advantage?
Oh and that 16% figure, I just don't see it. (I may have very dark glasses on atm)
Lasers track far better at their optimal than Blaster, so that figure doesn't fit.
Lasers are hitting for more damage over time than Blasters, unless ofc you're lucky and land right on the target.
Even then, the small extra damage just doesn't justify the use of blasters.
I still love the 'in your face' attitude of blasters ship, but it's lost it's edge and definition.
No range is not damage. Range and damage is 2 different things.
And about the 16.7% better DPS on Neutrons over Pulses on the gun stats only. Take a look HERE Mag's.
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Ephemeron
North Eastern Swat
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.03.16 19:14:00 -
[623]
Originally by: Electric Universe
Originally by: Ephemeron
I also look at it this way:
if another 10% pure damage boost to blasters is considered unbalanced, then game balance should be restored by a slight nerf to blaster tracking and/or optimal and falloff ranges.
That type of balancing emphasizes blaster role as the ultimate short range weapon. It makes different weapon roles more clearly defined, something that seems to be lacking right now.
Still, around 30% more DPS for Neutrons over Pulses in web range with an omni tank should be enough anyways.
Nothing more to add to that.
The omni tank argument is a red herring. If blasters were clearly superior against omni tanks, people would stop fitting omni tanks. People choose to fit them now knowing that overall, they get the biggest advantage, not because they want blasters to have more damage for sake of game balance.
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Trader20
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Posted - 2009.03.16 19:17:00 -
[624]
Edited by: Trader20 on 16/03/2009 19:18:34
1. Lasers track far better at their optimal than Blaster, so that figure doesn't fit. Because pulse optimal is past web/scram range. Blasters are meant to fight targets that are webbed/scrammed
2. Lasers are hitting for more damage over time than Blasters, unless ofc you're lucky and land right on the target. True, pulses are hittin the target more often but em damage is the highest resist on omni armor tank, so damage going through is less then the blasters therm/kin.
3.Even then, the small extra damage just doesn't justify the use of blasters. Blaster are situational weapons, and that situation happens to be right ontop of a webbed/scrammed target. While pulses are a more of a mid-range turret. Different play styles for different guns.
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Mag's
the united
Negative Ten.
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Posted - 2009.03.16 19:18:00 -
[625]
Originally by: Electric Universe
Reply.
I've kept a track on almost every thread concerning blasters, and even your 30% at web range post doesn't fit with what I've noticed in-game, and see in detailed threads.
In fact large blasters only have a very small window, in which they out damage lasers, and it's no where near 30%.
Just where did you get 30% from? Just out of interest.
Regards
Mag's |
Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
|
Posted - 2009.03.16 19:19:00 -
[626]
Originally by: Ephemeron
Originally by: Electric Universe
Originally by: Ephemeron
I also look at it this way:
if another 10% pure damage boost to blasters is considered unbalanced, then game balance should be restored by a slight nerf to blaster tracking and/or optimal and falloff ranges.
That type of balancing emphasizes blaster role as the ultimate short range weapon. It makes different weapon roles more clearly defined, something that seems to be lacking right now.
Still, around 30% more DPS for Neutrons over Pulses in web range with an omni tank should be enough anyways.
Nothing more to add to that.
The omni tank argument is a red herring. If blasters were clearly superior against omni tanks, people would stop fitting omni tanks. People choose to fit them now knowing that overall, they get the biggest advantage, not because they want blasters to have more damage for sake of game balance.
I know what your talking about. But how many of the PVP'ers today use Omni tank?. mostly everyone. So the omni tank thing is as much valid as the other things as EHP and DPS.
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Trader20
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Posted - 2009.03.16 19:21:00 -
[627]
Originally by: Ephemeron
Originally by: Electric Universe
Originally by: Ephemeron
I also look at it this way:
if another 10% pure damage boost to blasters is considered unbalanced, then game balance should be restored by a slight nerf to blaster tracking and/or optimal and falloff ranges.
That type of balancing emphasizes blaster role as the ultimate short range weapon. It makes different weapon roles more clearly defined, something that seems to be lacking right now.
Still, around 30% more DPS for Neutrons over Pulses in web range with an omni tank should be enough anyways.
Nothing more to add to that.
The omni tank argument is a red herring. If blasters were clearly superior against omni tanks, people would stop fitting omni tanks. People choose to fit them now knowing that overall, they get the biggest advantage, not because they want blasters to have more damage for sake of game balance.
WTF? Omni tanks are used because it has the best overall resist across the board, Ppl aren't goin to start tanking therm/kin only because they might run into blasters.
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Childstar
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Posted - 2009.03.16 19:26:00 -
[628]
Originally by: Electric Universe
I know what your talking about. But how many of the PVP'ers today use Omni tank?. mostly everyone. So the omni tank thing is as much valid as the other things as EHP and DPS.
The onmi tank only really applies to BS as snipers along with a lot of hacs, recons and even BC ect use other systems that give other resistances.
PS: You have a very distinctive posting style and as such the paragraph at the bottom of post 548 made me chuckle.....
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Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
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Posted - 2009.03.16 19:27:00 -
[629]
Edited by: Electric Universe on 16/03/2009 19:51:38
Originally by: Mag's
Originally by: Electric Universe
Reply.
I've kept a track on almost every thread concerning blasters, and even your 30% at web range post doesn't fit with what I've noticed in-game, and see in detailed threads.
In fact large blasters only have a very small window, in which they out damage lasers, and it's no where near 30%.
Just where did you get 30% from? Just out of interest.
First of all, the Neutrons do 16.7% more DPS than Pulses gun stats wise. And when you look on the resists after one DC II and 2 EANM II's and maybe one ANP II, then you see that the resists to EM and Thermal is pretty high.
And when you already know that Neutrons do 16.7% more DPS guns wise before any stats than Pulses does, and when the Megathron or a Tempest or any other ships that use an Omni tank have such high EM and Thermal resist's, then you will understand that the 1k DPS that Lasers have on the guns doesn't do 1k DPS anylonger.
And since Blasters does Kinetic and Thermal damage, it means that on top of the 16.7% more DPS Neutrons have over Pulses, then they will still do even more damage on an Armageddon or an Abaddon after the resists.
Because the Kinetic and Thermal resists are way lower than the EM resist.
EDIT: This is to you maralt.
You say that the resists doesn't have much to say on the BS'es in those gang combats heh. And then you say so much nice about the EHP bonus the Abaddon have.
Can you tell me exactly what's the reason is that the Abaddon have the extra EHP?.
Oh wait, the Abaddon have armor resists bonus. It's the armor resist bonus that makes the bigger EHP on the Abaddon.
So does the resists still don't have anything to say?
I think you did shoot your self in the foot there. OUCH.
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Mag's
the united
Negative Ten.
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Posted - 2009.03.16 19:45:00 -
[630]
Originally by: Electric Universe
First of all, the Neutrons do 16.7% more DPS than Pulses gun stats wise. And when you look on the resists after one DC II and 2 EANM II's and maybe one ANP II, then you see that the resists to EM and Thermal is pretty high.
And when you already know that Neutrons do 16.7% more DPS guns wise before any stats than Pulses does, and when the Megathron or a Tempest or any other ships that use an Omni tank have such high EM and Thermal resist's, then you will understand that the 1k DPS that Lasers have on the guns doesn't do 1k DPS anylonger.
And since Blasters does Kinetic and Thermal damage, it means that on top of the 16.7% more DPS Neutrons have over Pulses, then they will still do even more damage on an Armageddon or an Abaddon after the resists.
Because the Kinetic and Thermal resists are way lower than the EM resist.
This is from another thread, showing the damage with webs fitted to all ships.
Originally by: SecHaul
Setup: All ships with webs, all close range ammo (Navy +15)
Conclusion: Amarr still suffers the most from tracking, however do greater damage from 8 KM. Due to being able to swap crystals almost instantly, compared to 10 secs for other races, the conversion to Scorch (or a mid-range T1 ammo) means Amarr is the most effective DPS race from 8KM and never loses the lead in the scenario provided.
Regards
Mag's |
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Mag's
the united
Negative Ten.
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Posted - 2009.03.16 19:48:00 -
[631]
Another.
Regards
Mag's |
maralt
Minmatar
The seers of truth
|
Posted - 2009.03.16 19:48:00 -
[632]
Edited by: maralt on 16/03/2009 19:48:49
So the up side of blasters is
30% more dmg against certain types of tank in their 4.5km optimal.
While lasers get:
1. Against other tanks lasers are the better choice for dmg types, although truth be told those tanks are not used on BS really but they are used on quite a few T2 ships.
2. They have 37% more ehp compared to blaster ships.
3. Instant reload if a ship is altering its range.
4. No need to reload for 10 seconds after a very limited amount of shots.
5. 400%-1000% more optimal range.
6. Match or out damage blasters from 8km-30km.
7. Do 730 gun dps from 30-45km + have a falloff while blasters do 0dps.
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Mag's
the united
Negative Ten.
|
Posted - 2009.03.16 20:01:00 -
[633]
Another.
Originally by: SecHaul
OK, Goum, I fitted your above Myrm, using 2 EANMs. Stats are:
Shield: 4883 (12.5, 30, 47.5. 56.3)
Armor: 11110 (75.1, 67.6, 67.6, 55.1)
Hull: 5371 (60, 60, 60, 60)
Average resists: 66, 61, 63, 57
Compared to Tempest numbers of: 74, 63, 60, 56
When not using Minmatar EM bonuses, and the shift in weighting, the 74 to 66 will increase EM damage by 30%. I.E. we are a lot closer to omni-resists. Here is your graph, including drones, and the above Myrm resists:
Doesn't change, Amarr kings from 14km against armor tanks.
Regards
Mag's |
Ephemeron
North Eastern Swat
Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2009.03.16 20:02:00 -
[634]
Originally by: maralt
Edited by: maralt on 16/03/2009 19:48:49
So the up side of blasters is
30% more dmg against certain types of tank in their 4.5km optimal.
While lasers get:
1. Against other tanks lasers are the better choice for dmg types, although truth be told those tanks are not used on BS really but they are used on quite a few T2 ships.
2. They have 37% more ehp compared to blaster ships.
3. Instant reload if a ship is altering its range.
4. No need to reload for 10 seconds after a very limited amount of shots.
5. 400%-1000% more optimal range.
6. Match or out damage blasters from 8km-30km.
7. Do 730 gun dps from 30-45km + have a falloff while blasters do 0dps.
Don't forget the horrible CPU requirements of neutron blasters - surely I can't be the only one who notices!
try fit an all t2 neutron blaster bs
And good luck fitting neutrons with LAR, MWD, and cap injector. And that 8th high slot on megathron? a medium neut at best, or cloak - then CPU is really a problem
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Goumindong
Amarr
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.03.16 20:24:00 -
[635]
Originally by: Ephemeron
Don't forget the horrible CPU requirements of neutron blasters - surely I can't be the only one who notices!
try fit an all t2 neutron blaster bs
And good luck fitting neutrons with LAR, MWD, and cap injector. And that 8th high slot on megathron? a medium neut at best, or cloak - then CPU is really a problem
Fitting is relative to the amount you have on your ship. It is much harder to fit lasers on laser ships than blasters on blaster ships.
Originally by: Mag's
This is from another thread, showing the damage with webs fitted to all ships.
I don't get it, what is the point of showing graphs that the informed observer will know show how strong blaster ships are?
Here are some more to poor over
Of course when i put out information I also put out analysis with it explaining whats happening and why things were chosen...
Originally by: Ephemeron
The omni tank argument is a red herring. If blasters were clearly superior against omni tanks, people would stop fitting omni tanks. People choose to fit them now knowing that overall, they get the biggest advantage, not because they want blasters to have more damage for sake of game balance.
No, it is not a red herring. Omni tanks can both be better against blasters than tri-hardening while still being easier for blasters to kill than lasers. Currently, that is not quite the case. Omni tanking vs tri-hardening produces a roughly 5% drop in EHP against em/kin/therm combined with a roughly 40% increase in EHP against EM. The reason that you omni tank is that unless you know what you're going to go up against, trading the small effectiveness against everything for a large effectiveness drop against one is not valuable.
Blasters are clearly superior against omni tanks.
E.G. lets take an average weak battleship omni tank(Armageddon, 3x tri-mark, 2x 1600mm rt, 2x ANP, 1x DCII: 103k unified EHP). Its important to note that while racial tanks on other ships will favor one or the other, that advantage will be small and likely to be covered by the increase in raw EHP and armor EHP on other tanks.
Anyway
Universal EHP: 102,940
AN MF EHP: 115,238
Scorch EHP: 122,976
Antimatter EHP: 100,174
So what is the difference between shooting AN MF and Antimatter? 15.03%
And what is the raw DPS difference between the two weapons? 16.67
This puts the non-biased damage advantage at 34%. This number is pretty much higher for every other armor tanked battleships. And shield tanked battleships are able to fit specific EM hardeners due to lack of overlap between damage mods and tanking mods.
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Trader20
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Posted - 2009.03.16 20:25:00 -
[636]
Originally by: maralt
Edited by: maralt on 16/03/2009 19:48:49
So the up side of blasters is
30% more dmg against certain types of tank in their 4.5km optimal.
While lasers get:
1. Against other tanks lasers are the better choice for dmg types, although truth be told those tanks are not used on BS really but they are used on quite a few T2 ships.
2. They have 37% more ehp compared to blaster ships.
3. Instant reload if a ship is altering its range.
4. No need to reload for 10 seconds after a very limited amount of shots.
5. 400%-1000% more optimal range.
6. Match or out damage blasters from 8km-30km.
7. Do 730 gun dps from 30-45km + have a falloff while blasters do 0dps.
6.8 optimal, train ur skills, use T2 ammo, then come back to the forum. (Yes the extra dps and range is worth the cap usage and tracking hit, learn to web/scram ur target)
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Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
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Posted - 2009.03.16 20:32:00 -
[637]
Edited by: Electric Universe on 16/03/2009 20:33:15
Originally by: Ephemeron
And good luck fitting neutrons with LAR, MWD, and cap injector. And that 8th high slot on megathron? a medium neut at best, or cloak - then CPU is really a problem
You don't fit a LAR on a Neutron fitted Mega anyways.
Ok, you can fit this setup with no problems with a -3% lower Turret CPU implant. I have this implant on my self on TQ. And the implant is dirt cheap anyways. That's a stupid idea to even think about.
High-Slot:
7 x Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
1 x Medium Energy Neutralizer II
Med-Slot:
1 x 100MN MicroWarpdrive II
1 x Warp Disruptor II
1 x Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
1 x Medium Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
Low-Slot:
1 x Damage Control II
2 x Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
1 x Adaptive Nano Plating II
2 x 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
1 x Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Rigs:
3 x Trimark Armor Pump I
Drones:
5 x Ogre II
With this setup, i use 684.64 out of 687.50 CPU. I use 17633.9 out of 19375 Powergrid. And i'll do 1k DPS. Yes this is from EFT.
Not that the stats from EFT says how good a ship is.
So i can't see any problems to fit a setup like that on a Neutron fitted Mega.
And to the things you talking about here.
1. Yes, against shield tanks, lasers is good. I agree on that. But how many are shield tanking and how many are using armor tanks?.
2. Yes an Abaddon have 37% more EHP than a Megathron, but that's because the Abaddon have armor resists bonus. So the resists a Megathron have against Lasers is as much important than the EHP bonus the Abaddon have.
3 % 4. With this, you will run way faster out of cap than a Megathron does.
5.Yes when a weapon is designed for med range, then what do you expect?.
6. A Megathron fitted with Neutrons is meant for close range combat. And when a Megathron meet a ship with med range weapons, it's logic that a med range weapon outdamages a very close range weapon from those ranges.
7. Blasters are close range weapon and a Pulse weapon is med range weapon. You cannot compare a close range weapon to a med range weapon. It just doesn't work.
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Koloch
Amarr
Warriors Lost
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Posted - 2009.03.16 20:32:00 -
[638]
Originally by: maralt
Edited by: maralt on 16/03/2009 19:48:49
So the up side of blasters is
30% more dmg against certain types of tank in their 4.5km optimal.
While lasers get:
1. Against other tanks lasers are the better choice for dmg types, although truth be told those tanks are not used on BS really but they are used on quite a few T2 ships.
2. They have 37% more ehp compared to blaster ships.
3. Instant reload if a ship is altering its range.
4. No need to reload for 10 seconds after a very limited amount of shots.
5. 400%-1000% more optimal range.
6. Match or out damage blasters from 8km-30km.
7. Do 730 gun dps from 30-45km + have a falloff while blasters do 0dps.
1. not sure I believe you on that one.
2. what all amarr battleships have exactly 37% more ehp? what are these figures based on?
3. not instant. it's probably more like 2 seconds. while amarr have to carry a minimum of 25-30 mil worth of ammo in each ship.
4. have to carry extra crystals due to hard to track crystal expiry.
6. nice try. mwd fitted blasters ships take no time to travel from 8k to their optimal.
7. not blasters intended operation range which is why they do 0 damage.
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maralt
Minmatar
The seers of truth
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Posted - 2009.03.16 20:39:00 -
[639]
Originally by: Trader20
6.8 optimal, train ur skills, use T2 ammo, then come back to the forum. (Yes the extra dps and range is worth the cap usage and tracking hit, learn to web/scram ur target).
Firstly i have perfect gunnery skills and as far as people using void in large blasters instead of faction anti matter, well i have never seen it used apart from on eft when people wanna post high dps figures in order to make blasters look better than they are.
Originally by: Trader20
Also not certain types of tank, stop acting like noone uses omni tanks noob. I see wat ur doin, start speaking some truth.
I did not say no one uses omni tanks in fact il be quite frank and say they are the MOST used tank, but as i actually said they are not the ONLY tank people use. A lot of cruisers and BC fits use a active tank and repper fit, while others use shield extenders as a buffer.
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Dzil
Caldari
Apache Research Team
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Posted - 2009.03.16 20:44:00 -
[640]
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean
OMG MY RACE SUCKS
Buff vegetables?
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maralt
Minmatar
The seers of truth
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Posted - 2009.03.16 20:47:00 -
[641]
Edited by: maralt on 16/03/2009 20:52:01
Originally by: Koloch
1. not sure I believe you on that one.
2. what all amarr battleships have exactly 37% more ehp? what are these figures based on?
3. not instant. it's probably more like 2 seconds. while amarr have to carry a minimum of 25-30 mil worth of ammo in each ship.
4. have to carry extra crystals due to hard to track crystal expiry.
6. nice try. mwd fitted blasters ships take no time to travel from 8k to their optimal.
7. not blasters intended operation range which is why they do 0 damage.
1. Shield buffer tanks and a few active tanks have em as the weakest or at lest not the best resist.
2. Abaddon vs mega or hyperion.
3. Even 2 seconds is better than 10.
4. All the other races need to carry ammo, and is this not covered in 3?.
5. what happened to 5?...
6. That depends on the target.
7. Lasers are not supposed to be close range so im told but they do very high damage.
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Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
|
Posted - 2009.03.16 20:53:00 -
[642]
Edited by: Electric Universe on 16/03/2009 20:53:17
Originally by: maralt
7. Lasers are not supposed to be close range so im told but they do very high damage.
Yes before the omni tank resists.
And also, i do agree to some point that Lasers is a good choice when your fighting shield tanked ships.
But then, how many ships with shield tanks are here and how many ships are here with arnor tanks?. This difference is HUGE.
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maralt
Minmatar
The seers of truth
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Posted - 2009.03.16 21:08:00 -
[643]
Edited by: maralt on 16/03/2009 21:10:11
Originally by: Electric Universe
Yes before the omni tank resists.
Before omni resists blaster do great dmg at 4.5km but its only 30% more than lasers at that range, as soon as the target moves outside that range the difference gets smaller and smaller.
Originally by: Electric Universe
And also, i do agree to some point that Lasers is a good choice when your fighting shield tanked ships.
But then, how many ships with shield tanks are here and how many ships are here with arnor tanks?. This difference is HUGE.
In BS combat unless you are ganking a raven ect id say its almost guaranteed that you will be facing a omni tank in close range Battleship gang combat in 0.0.
Against raw ship resistances like snipers and shield extender tanks ect have i would probably give it to laser ships although lets be honest if a close range BS gang lands on your snipers you are gonna wish you had Vaseline handy. Low sec and empire is harder to judge as people fit to suit what they are going to be doing.
The thing is that none of these things is in dispute, the issue is that the up side of lasers is much greater than a 30% dmg reduction vs blasters at 4.5km
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Goumindong
Amarr
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.03.16 21:16:00 -
[644]
Originally by: maralt
4. All the other races need to carry ammo, and is this not covered in 3?.
How much ammo? Do you go out with 8k CN AM L and 8k of Null every time you undock? If you want middle range do you need another 8K of each type in the middle? The ammo costs are not insignificant.
Also, you almost never have to reload in most fights.
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Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
|
Posted - 2009.03.16 21:16:00 -
[645]
Originally by: maralt
The thing is that none of these things is in dispute, the issue is that the up side of lasers is much greater than a 30% dmg reduction vs blasters at 4.5km
Nah, i would not say that at all.
I will rather say that as stats, bonuses , resists, EHP and DPS etc etc are today, everything seems to be pretty nicely balanced.
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Koloch
Amarr
Warriors Lost
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Posted - 2009.03.16 21:23:00 -
[646]
Originally by: maralt
Edited by: maralt on 16/03/2009 20:52:01
Originally by: Koloch
1. not sure I believe you on that one.
2. what all amarr battleships have exactly 37% more ehp? what are these figures based on?
3. not instant. it's probably more like 2 seconds. while amarr have to carry a minimum of 25-30 mil worth of ammo in each ship.
4. have to carry extra crystals due to hard to track crystal expiry.
6. nice try. mwd fitted blasters ships take no time to travel from 8k to their optimal.
7. not blasters intended operation range which is why they do 0 damage.
1. Shield buffer tanks and a few active tanks have em as the weakest or at lest not the best resist.
2. Abaddon vs mega or hyperion.
3. Even 2 seconds is better than 10.
4. All the other races need to carry ammo, and is this not covered in 3?.
5. what happened to 5?...
6. That depends on the target.
7. Lasers are not supposed to be close range so im told but they do very high damage.
1. so in reality not that many ships.
2. Abaddon is one ship in the Amarr Fleet -which tbh I agree is a bit too strong.
3&4. This debate has been going on for years. I'II let this one be.
5. amarr are mid range combat ships. it would makes sense they have a longer range over blaster ships. note that apart from the Abaddon no other Amarr BS can fit a full rack of mega pulses and a mwd. If they can't dictate range then they need a wider optimal range.
6. details please.
7. they do good damage though you can get a lot more damage out of a blaster ship.
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maralt
Minmatar
The seers of truth
|
Posted - 2009.03.16 21:32:00 -
[647]
Originally by: Electric Universe
Lasers are outdamaged up to 8-10 km.
Not by 30% they are not as i said the further they get away from 4.5km the less the difference is.
Originally by: Electric Universe
When you jump in to a system and land 20-25 km (or it depends on the gate) from a target or targets, then it doesn't take many seconds to move into web range and outdamage everything.
Id say the first ship approached will have a rough time of it as the blaster ships starting at 0ms can travel 15km + the distance the target would have traveled in say 20 secs or so (im sure somebody will have the exact figures).
But then the problem appears as they need to accelerate again from low speed after the other target ships that are now at top speed and pushing out a bucket tonne of dps between them, and the blaster ships need to do this again and again for every hostile ship they primary.
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Trader20
|
Posted - 2009.03.16 21:45:00 -
[648]
Originally by: maralt
Originally by: Electric Universe
Lasers are outdamaged up to 8-10 km.
Not by 30% they are not as i said the further they get away from 4.5km the less the difference is.
Originally by: Electric Universe
When you jump in to a system and land 20-25 km (or it depends on the gate) from a target or targets, then it doesn't take many seconds to move into web range and outdamage everything.
Id say the first ship approached will have a rough time of it as the blaster ships starting at 0ms can travel 15km + the distance the target would have traveled in say 20 secs or so (im sure somebody will have the exact figures).
But then the problem appears as they need to accelerate again from low speed after the other target ships that are now at top speed and pushing out a bucket tonne of dps between them, and the blaster ships need to do this again and again for every hostile ship they primary.
I tymded it on my hello kitty stop watch and it takes a mega 9.3 seconds to close onto a target from 15km away.
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Ephemeron
North Eastern Swat
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.03.16 21:52:00 -
[649]
Quote:
1 x Medium Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
That's a joke right?
no seriously?
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maralt
Minmatar
The seers of truth
|
Posted - 2009.03.16 21:55:00 -
[650]
Originally by: Trader20
Originally by: maralt
Originally by: Electric Universe
Lasers are outdamaged up to 8-10 km.
Not by 30% they are not as i said the further they get away from 4.5km the less the difference is.
Originally by: Electric Universe
When you jump in to a system and land 20-25 km (or it depends on the gate) from a target or targets, then it doesn't take many seconds to move into web range and outdamage everything.
Id say the first ship approached will have a rough time of it as the blaster ships starting at 0ms can travel 15km + the distance the target would have traveled in say 20 secs or so (im sure somebody will have the exact figures).
But then the problem appears as they need to accelerate again from low speed after the other target ships that are now at top speed and pushing out a bucket tonne of dps between them, and the blaster ships need to do this again and again for every hostile ship they primary.
I tymded it on my hello kitty stop watch and it takes a mega 9.3 seconds to close onto a target from 15km away.
Was the target burning away from the start with its own web and mwd?.
Cos it seems odd that a plated mega can cover 10km from a standing start vs a stationary target let alone one that is burning away when its max burning speed is around 822ms.
After all that is only 8.22ish km every 10 secs at full tilt let alone needing to accelerate..
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Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
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Posted - 2009.03.16 21:57:00 -
[651]
Edited by: Electric Universe on 16/03/2009 22:02:08
Originally by: Ephemeron
Quote:
1 x Medium Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
That's a joke right?
no seriously?
Are you dumb?.
Try fitting a Heavy Capacitor Booster II to that setup with Neutrons. You don't have the CPU or Powergrid to fit it.
Jesus man, every Neutron Mega pilots knows this heh.
EDIT: maralt, most pilots i know doesn't just to start to MWD away from someone that have jumped in to you and are MWDing towards you. They will most likely sit at the gate and deaggro if they need to get away.
They rather stay and try and kill something than just run away only because someone is burning after you lol.
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Ephemeron
North Eastern Swat
Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2009.03.16 22:06:00 -
[652]
my point was that neutron blasters have bad bad fitting requirements - worse than mega pulse
This is yet another disadvantage that is supposed to make the extra 16.7% dps advantage worthwhile?
Add up all the other disadvantages, and the extra damage is not worth it.
I want damage advantage to be 10% bigger to make up for all the disadvantages
btw, dual plate mega moves like a brick and will be the death of you in many small gang engagements where the enemy has superior numbers and cruiser sized ships. And without active rep - good luck finding a station in 0.0 after every battle and spending 5 mil on repaires, or play docking games while you try to rep yourself by offlining some guns.
It's a gimped setup that works only in certain situations. All this self-gimping is not worth 16.7% more damage
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Goumindong
Amarr
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.03.16 22:26:00 -
[653]
Originally by: Ephemeron
Quote:
1 x Medium Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
That's a joke right?
no seriously?
Size of the cap booster doesn't matter. What matters is how much cap you need and how much cap you get.
Med cap booster is fine for blasters without a repair unit.
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Mila Prestoc
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Posted - 2009.03.16 22:28:00 -
[654]
so while your busy increasing blaster damage because "it makes them balanced against laser battleships" what you going to do to ACs?
-------------------------
Originally by: "Lord Violent"
EvE is slowly becoming a game for the stupid, catered to by devs as they lack ability to kill/survive anything.
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Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
|
Posted - 2009.03.16 22:29:00 -
[655]
Edited by: Electric Universe on 16/03/2009 22:36:16
Originally by: Ephemeron
my point was that neutron blasters have bad bad fitting requirements - worse than mega pulse
This is yet another disadvantage that is supposed to make the extra 16.7% dps advantage worthwhile?
Add up all the other disadvantages, and the extra damage is not worth it.
I want damage advantage to be 10% bigger to make up for all the disadvantages
btw, dual plate mega moves like a brick and will be the death of you in many small gang engagements where the enemy has superior numbers and cruiser sized ships. And without active rep - good luck finding a station in 0.0 after every battle and spending 5 mil on repaires, or play docking games while you try to rep yourself by offlining some guns.
It's a gimped setup that works only in certain situations. All this self-gimping is not worth 16.7% more damage
Neutrons doesn't have it harder fitting Neutrons that a geddon have to fit 7 pulses with the normal omni tank setups that we use now.
And by giving Blaster 10% more DPS advantage is really asking to make Autocannons obsolete.
So i don't see that happening.
And increasing the DPS on Blasters is not going to do much.
They still have to MWD to the targets and be shoot while they move. So they rather have cap problems then to.
Maybe they need a capacitor boost to at the same time?.
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Mag's
the united
Negative Ten.
|
Posted - 2009.03.16 23:18:00 -
[656]
Originally by: Goumindong
I don't get it, what is the point of showing graphs that the informed observer will know show how strong blaster ships are?
You're right, you don't get it. Even with your graphs, it shows how small the damage gap is and how lasers out perform blasters.
It isn't 30% extra damage from blasters, that's for sure.
Thanks for proving my point.
Regards
Mag's |
Deschenus Maximus
Amarr
Digital Fury Corporation
Digital Renegades
|
Posted - 2009.03.16 23:24:00 -
[657]
Originally by: Mila Prestoc
so while your busy increasing blaster damage because "it makes them balanced against laser battleships" what you going to do to ACs?
Why would a boost to blasters be mutually exclusive with a boost to ACs?
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Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
|
Posted - 2009.03.16 23:42:00 -
[658]
Originally by: Deschenus Maximus
Originally by: Mila Prestoc
so while your busy increasing blaster damage because "it makes them balanced against laser battleships" what you going to do to ACs?
Why would a boost to blasters be mutually exclusive with a boost to ACs?
Because Blasters are very balanced to Autocannons now maybe?.
So by you logic, if we only boost Blasters, then what's the point in that when you will get topics like the Boost Blaster topic all over again about how crappy the Autocannons is?.
Do we need that?, no we don't.
DO NOT TOUCH BLASTERS AND AUTOCANNONS.
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Ephemeron
North Eastern Swat
Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2009.03.16 23:46:00 -
[659]
Originally by: Electric Universe
Edited by: Electric Universe on 16/03/2009 22:46:43
Originally by: Ephemeron
my point was that neutron blasters have bad bad fitting requirements - worse than mega pulse
This is yet another disadvantage that is supposed to make the extra 16.7% dps advantage worthwhile?
Add up all the other disadvantages, and the extra damage is not worth it.
I want damage advantage to be 10% bigger to make up for all the disadvantages
btw, dual plate mega moves like a brick and will be the death of you in many small gang engagements where the enemy has superior numbers and cruiser sized ships. And without active rep - good luck finding a station in 0.0 after every battle and spending 5 mil on repaires, or play docking games while you try to rep yourself by offlining some guns.
It's a gimped setup that works only in certain situations. All this self-gimping is not worth 16.7% more damage
Neutrons doesn't have it harder fitting Neutrons that a geddon have to fit 7 pulses with the normal omni tank setups that we use now.
And by giving Blaster 10% more DPS advantage is really asking to make Autocannons obsolete or in really really bad shape.
So i don't see that happening.
And increasing the DPS on Blasters is not going to help much.
They still have to MWD to the targets and be shoot while they move. So they rather have cap problems then though. But when you look closer to that, they don't directly have any cap problem when they MWD a bit around.
Only low skilled players with poor capacitor skills might end up in that problem.
Maybe they need a capacitor boost at the same time to, so the low skilled players can stop to whine about that?.
If you are talking about fitting difficulty for Mega Pulse geddon, then compare it to fitting neutron blasters on a Dominix - both tier 1 versions. I believe you'd still find the geddon has it easier.
I am aware that the Autocannons are rather weak weapons, but so far people aren't complaining because the Tempest and Typhoon are the most versatile of all battleships, able to make up for lack of dps in other ways, specifically by fitting heavy neuts. And the tempest has double damage bonus, which, in a way, brings AC damage up to par with blasters and lasers.
I'm all for boosting ACs - but only in a way that emphasizes their role. And their role is not in the damage they do, and not optimal - but all other stats.
Each of the 3 short range weapons deserves to have a clearly defined role.
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Deschenus Maximus
Amarr
Digital Fury Corporation
Digital Renegades
|
Posted - 2009.03.16 23:51:00 -
[660]
Originally by: Electric Universe
Originally by: Deschenus Maximus
Originally by: Mila Prestoc
so while your busy increasing blaster damage because "it makes them balanced against laser battleships" what you going to do to ACs?
Why would a boost to blasters be mutually exclusive with a boost to ACs?
Because Blasters are very balanced to Autocannons now maybe?.
So by you logic, if we only boost Blasters, then what's the point in that when you will get topics like the Boost Blaster topic all over again about how crappy the Autocannons is?.
Do we need that?, no we don't.
DO NOT TOUCH BLASTERS AND AUTOCANNONS.
BOOST LASERS!
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Chi Quan
Perkone
|
Posted - 2009.03.16 23:54:00 -
[661]
Originally by: Electric Universe
EDIT: After looking in EFT. I just fitted a megathron with this in low slot.
1x Damage Control II, 2x EANM II's, 3x 1600mm RTP and 3x t1 trimarks. And with this setup with all skills on level 5, the Megathron have 40237 armor hp.
The Abaddon with the same things on with everything on level 5 have 44124 armor hp.
The Megathron here have 156363 EHP while the Abaddon have 214846 EHP. And by that, it's 37% more EHP than a Megathron have.
So where is your lie about 50% more EHP?.
you seriously don't know how to fit either an abbadon or a mega. even Goumindong makes better fits.
----
Ceterum censeo blasters need some tracking love |
Chi Quan
Perkone
|
Posted - 2009.03.17 00:00:00 -
[662]
Originally by: Trader20
Blasters don't have enough tracking to perform well at their optimal range? lol... If your in optimal range and ur using blasters the target should be dual webbed/scrammed anyway so tracking is a non-issue to any good blaster pilot. The problem is gettin into blaster optimal.
sadly, yes, they don't. that is one of the many points in this thread, they SHOULD be good, but they ARE NOT.
(and i'll just ignore the 4 medlots you just used to "make blasters workable")
----
Ceterum censeo blasters need some tracking love |
Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
|
Posted - 2009.03.17 00:07:00 -
[663]
Edited by: Electric Universe on 17/03/2009 00:09:54
Originally by: Chi Quan
Originally by: Electric Universe
EDIT: After looking in EFT. I just fitted a megathron with this in low slot.
1x Damage Control II, 2x EANM II's, 3x 1600mm RTP and 3x t1 trimarks. And with this setup with all skills on level 5, the Megathron have 40237 armor hp.
The Abaddon with the same things on with everything on level 5 have 44124 armor hp.
The Megathron here have 156363 EHP while the Abaddon have 214846 EHP. And by that, it's 37% more EHP than a Megathron have.
So where is your lie about 50% more EHP?.
you seriously don't know how to fit either an abbadon or a mega. even Goumindong makes better fits.
Is whining all you can do bud?.
The setup was not to show how good i'am to fit a ship. It was to compare the armor hp's and EHP to the 2 ships i was talking about.
Originally by: Deschenus Maximus
BOOST LASERS!
Pfffft, BOOST NOTHING.
Those boost that and that and that....... is starting to give someone here some headaches.
|
The Djego
Minmatar
merovinger inc
|
Posted - 2009.03.17 00:17:00 -
[664]
Originally by: Electric Universe
DO NOT TOUCH BLASTERS AND AUTOCANNONS.
That is the most stupid thing I read on the forum for a long time(and I reed some pro Falcon things today).
It is true that you can¦t boost Blasters without changing AKs to, because they are both intendet to do mostly the same in diffrent ways(the main Problem are Large Aks, yust look at the Phoon if you have a choice people fit Torps instead of AKs).
There are also quite some preaty good Ideas around(Falloff change, unnerf T1 and Faction Amno, increase the Clip and Alpha of Artis). I would be the last one that says boost blasters, projektiels are fine. This is simply not true, and known for a even longer than the problems with Blasters.
To the EHP vs Damagetypes -> the other ship mostly got 10%+ EHP advantage, you need some time to get in range, you loose DPS to keep your range if the other pilote is smart, T2 Ships and Shield tanks are not rare today and you don¦t do your actualy EFT DPS because of Tracking most of the time).
In theorie it is like 30%. When you are on TQ it is 10% more EHP + 10% Damageloose till you are in Range + 5-10%(minimum) Damage loose to Tracking -> you end up very close or simply loose. If you end up close or loose with a Blaster Ship at Blaster range it is infact broken and the main reason I see many people just leaving them behind.
Medium Cap booster isn¦t optimal(you get screwed by Neuts or longer Fights) but nessesary to get the grid for the 2 must haves in a Neutron Setup(active Rep or Heavy Neut in AWU 5 Setups on Megas).
Btw your Setup looks like pure EFT, there is a reason why people fit Neutrons + 3 Damagemods, the reason is simply that 1k DPS with a Mega is FAIL(even 1.25k with the standard setups is). If you do 1k DPS with a Mega, bring a Hype or a Puls BS, both will be fare better for solo or Gangs in any possible way.
----
Nerf Tank - Boost Gank!
Originally by: Amantus
Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
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Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
|
Posted - 2009.03.17 00:22:00 -
[665]
Edited by: Electric Universe on 17/03/2009 00:26:10
The Djego, it's how it is.
If you make CCP to mess with the weapons, then it usually ends up by something else to get really borked or really underpowered.
Now when the Autocannons and Blasters finally are ecually to each others, then you want them to change them again?.
I don't think that's a smart idea to do.
If there is something that need to be nerfed, IF there is something that need to be nerfed, it's Lasers.
Lasers is not so damn important that we have to boost 2-3 of the other weapon systems ONLY because some whiners want them to be more like Lasers.
Sorry, wont happen.
And about the EHP, DPS and resists have been discusses many times, and it's still on what i have told here earlier.
If you wont accept that, when it is how it is, then don't accept it. But do not whine about it on the forums.
CCP is not going to change is only because someone doesn't understand PVP 100% like someone here are doing.
When you can see all of the things in PVP and then take in the EHP, DPS, speed, agility, tracking, range etc etc and then look at every of the BS'es and then to some maths. You will see why every BS'es ingame are balanced pretty good.
Personally, i have done it many times. And the results are all the same all of the times.
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maralt
Minmatar
The seers of truth
|
Posted - 2009.03.17 00:33:00 -
[666]
Edited by: maralt on 17/03/2009 00:35:52
Blasters need fixing and if ccp need to adjust the others systems as well they will do it.
Originally by: Electric Universe
EDIT: maralt, most pilots i know doesn't just to start to MWD away from someone that have jumped in to you and are MWDing towards you. They will most likely sit at the gate and deaggro if they need to get away.
They rather stay and try and kill something than just run away only because someone is burning after you lol.
If a laser gang jumps in to engage a gang on a gate they would be the worst pvpers ever if they did not burn away and take advantage of their range.
And they would be insane if the approached the gang on the gate.
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Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
|
Posted - 2009.03.17 00:35:00 -
[667]
Edited by: Electric Universe on 17/03/2009 00:37:07
Originally by: maralt
Blasters need fixing and if ccp need to adjust the others systems as well they will do it.
It's much easier to just adjust Lasers to be more like the 3 other weapons systems. Again, Lasers is not more important than 3 other weapon systems.
And no, Blasters DO NOT need to be fixed / boosted or whatever other things as things are on TQ now.
It have been told many times why Blasters doesn't need to be more boosted here. I even gave a very good explanation on that.
But for god sake, just ignore it. I can't make you to understand how PVP works 100%.
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The Djego
Minmatar
merovinger inc
|
Posted - 2009.03.17 00:37:00 -
[668]
Originally by: Electric Universe
The Djego, it's how it is.
If you make CCP to mess with the weapons, then it usually ends up by something else to get really borked or really underpowered.
Now when the Autocannons and Blasters finally are ecually to each others, then you want them to change them again?.
I don't think that's a smart idea to do.
If there is something that need to be nerfed, IF there is something that need to be nerfed, it's Lasers.
Lasers is not so damn important that we have to boost 2-3 of the other weapon systems ONLY because some whiners want them to be more like Lasers.
Sorry, wont happen.
Lasers are perfectly done atm(I fly Amarr to), what lacks is Blasters, Aks/Artis and the short Range Missles + Cruise.
I prefere 4 diffrent and powerfull(in her role) Weaponsystems over 4 useless(because of this I was a big supporter of the Laser buff in the first place).
The last thing I wish for is that Blasters\Aks that they are like lasers(I had this discussion even bevor QR with a lot of people).
4 usefull Weapon Systems will make many people happy, 1 nerfed many people ****ed, that is the main diffrence.
----
Nerf Tank - Boost Gank!
Originally by: Amantus
Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
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maralt
Minmatar
The seers of truth
|
Posted - 2009.03.17 00:39:00 -
[669]
Originally by: Electric Universe
Edited by: Electric Universe on 17/03/2009 00:35:02
Originally by: maralt
Blasters need fixing and if ccp need to adjust the others systems as well they will do it.
It's much easier to just adjust Lasers to be more like the 3 other weapons systems. Again, Lasers is not more important than 3 other weapon systems.
And no, Blasters DO NOT need to be fixed as things are on TQ now.
And yet every experienced blaster BS pilot disagrees with you and there are a LOT of blaster pvpers in this thread saying so, and the only nay Sayers are ppl who do not fly blaster BS. Or at least have no shred of evidence that they do or ever have.
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Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
|
Posted - 2009.03.17 00:41:00 -
[670]
Edited by: Electric Universe on 17/03/2009 00:43:30
The Djego, whatever you say. CCP is NEVER gonna boost 3 other weapons systems only because of one weapon system.
That's the thing that will never happen.
Lasers is not so important and good that 3 other weapons have to be boosted instead of nerfing Lasers to be more like the 3 other weapon systems.
But still, Lasers still need to have a range advantage, because Amarr BS'es is not the ships that like to have MWD fitted, so they are slow as hell. That's why they need the range advantage.
Originally by: maralt
And yet every experienced blaster BS pilot disagrees with you and there are a LOT of blaster pvpers in this thread saying so, and the only nay Sayers are ppl who do not fly blaster BS. Or at least have no shred of evidence that they do or ever have.
Only low skilled Blaster Mega pilots are saying that.
You know, they want to be the pwn machine only after some few months with training of Gallente BS and Blasters.
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maralt
Minmatar
The seers of truth
|
Posted - 2009.03.17 00:52:00 -
[671]
Originally by: Electric Universe
You know, they want to be the pwn machine only after some few months with training of Gallente BS and Blasters.
Most of the posters on here who want the change are highly experienced blaster pilots and pvpers with the kills to prove it.
The loudest voices against the fix have 0 blaster experience and very little pvp experience either.
That pretty much says it all.
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The Djego
Minmatar
merovinger inc
|
Posted - 2009.03.17 00:54:00 -
[672]
Originally by: Electric Universe
The Djego, whatever you say. CCP is NEVER gonna boost 3 other weapons systems only because of one weapon system.
That's the thing that will never happen.
Lasers is not so important and good that 3 other weapons have to be boosted instead of nerfing Lasers to be more like the 3 other weapon systems.
But still, Lasers still need to have a range advantage, because Amarr BS'es is not the ships that like to have MWD fitted, so they are slow as hell. That's why they need the range advantage.
In progamming/ballancing there are allways 2 ways(yeah Im in the IT to).
The easy one(what CCP mostly does, unfortunaly) and the right one what is more complex.
Eve got a ton of issues and unfinished/broken contend in my opinion, the awnser isn¦t break another thing(to have everything broken and ballanced) but adjusting at least the genral stuff around the gameplay we have on TQ today.
Im posting here because I think CCP will do the easy way, and I know it is the wrong way.
But still you didn¦t understand the concept of a Amarr BS in solo/gang.
----
Nerf Tank - Boost Gank!
Originally by: Amantus
Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
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ChalSto
LOCKDOWN.
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.03.17 00:56:00 -
[673]
Originally by: Electric Universe
[ Originally by: maralt
And yet every experienced blaster BS pilot disagrees with you and there are a LOT of blaster pvpers in this thread saying so, and the only nay Sayers are ppl who do not fly blaster BS. Or at least have no shred of evidence that they do or ever have.
Only low skilled Blaster Mega pilots are saying that.
You know, they want to be the pwn machine only after some few months with training of Gallente BS and Blasters.
So I¦m a low-skilled bthron pilot?
k....
PS: How many alts do u have, nightmare?
Originally by: Agmar
-----------------------------------------------
"The North is so ghey that even the NPCs fly ravens." |
Recon Three
181st Legion
W A S T E L A N D
|
Posted - 2009.03.17 01:04:00 -
[674]
I read this entire thread and found no useful information. You should all be ashamed of yourselves.
_____
:> |
Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
|
Posted - 2009.03.17 01:14:00 -
[675]
Edited by: Electric Universe on 17/03/2009 01:19:37
Originally by: ChalSto
Originally by: Electric Universe
[ Originally by: maralt
And yet every experienced blaster BS pilot disagrees with you and there are a LOT of blaster pvpers in this thread saying so, and the only nay Sayers are ppl who do not fly blaster BS. Or at least have no shred of evidence that they do or ever have.
Only low skilled Blaster Mega pilots are saying that.
You know, they want to be the pwn machine only after some few months with training of Gallente BS and Blasters.
So I¦m a low-skilled bthron pilot?
k....
PS: How many alts do u have, nightmare?
If your talking about NightmareX, then no, it's not my alt. It have never been that.
The only alt i know NightmareX have is Fatality Killer, he even said it him self somewhere. He even posted with Fatality killer somewhere to. Don't know exactly where, i think it was in one of those Blasters topics.
Anways, even if your a skilled bthron pilot, it doesn't still make CCP to change 3 weapon systems only because of Lasers.
I know CCP that good to know that. They will rather then just change Lasers because thats's way way way easier to do. And it might not screw up anythings by doing that, or at least only some very few things if it happens. By changing 3 weapon systems, the change that CCP makes something else really underpowered or borked is EXTREMELY HIGH.
If that will happen, it might be something else, but as things are now, it wont happen, not with the current PVP mechanics that are on TQ.
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Trader20
|
Posted - 2009.03.17 01:19:00 -
[676]
Edited by: Trader20 on 17/03/2009 01:19:45
Originally by: Electric Universe
Edited by: Electric Universe on 17/03/2009 00:43:30
The Djego, whatever you say. CCP is NEVER gonna boost 3 other weapons systems only because of one weapon system.
That's the thing that will never happen.
Lasers is not so important and good that 3 other weapons have to be boosted instead of nerfing Lasers to be more like the 3 other weapon systems.
But still, Lasers still need to have a range advantage, because Amarr BS'es is not the ships that like to have MWD fitted, so they are slow as hell. That's why they need the range advantage.
Originally by: maralt
And yet every experienced blaster BS pilot disagrees with you and there are a LOT of blaster pvpers in this thread saying so, and the only nay Sayers are ppl who do not fly blaster BS. Or at least have no shred of evidence that they do or ever have.
Only low skilled Blaster Mega pilots are saying that.
You know, they want to be the pwn machine only after some few months with training of Gallente BS and Blasters.
WTF? No mwd on an abaddon, dude gtfo, u have never pvp'd and it's showing. Bs's in general are slow as hell especialy plated ones, so the range advangtage of pulses is multiplied when considering large turret ships.
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Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
|
Posted - 2009.03.17 01:21:00 -
[677]
Edited by: Electric Universe on 17/03/2009 01:22:12
Originally by: Trader20
Edited by: Trader20 on 17/03/2009 01:19:45
Originally by: Electric Universe
Edited by: Electric Universe on 17/03/2009 00:43:30
The Djego, whatever you say. CCP is NEVER gonna boost 3 other weapons systems only because of one weapon system.
That's the thing that will never happen.
Lasers is not so important and good that 3 other weapons have to be boosted instead of nerfing Lasers to be more like the 3 other weapon systems.
But still, Lasers still need to have a range advantage, because Amarr BS'es is not the ships that like to have MWD fitted, so they are slow as hell. That's why they need the range advantage.
Originally by: maralt
And yet every experienced blaster BS pilot disagrees with you and there are a LOT of blaster pvpers in this thread saying so, and the only nay Sayers are ppl who do not fly blaster BS. Or at least have no shred of evidence that they do or ever have.
Only low skilled Blaster Mega pilots are saying that.
You know, they want to be the pwn machine only after some few months with training of Gallente BS and Blasters.
WTF? No mwd on an abaddon, dude gtfo, u have never pvp'd and it's showing. Bs's in general are slow as hell especialy plated ones, so the range advangtage of pulses is multiplied when considering large turret ships.
Heh, yeah you can use MWD on an Abaddon, but thaaaaaaaaat's so gonna OM NOM NOM NOM you cap. And you didn't know that?.
That's kinda funny actually.
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Trader20
|
Posted - 2009.03.17 01:22:00 -
[678]
Originally by: Recon Three
I read this entire thread and found no useful information. You should all be ashamed of yourselves.
Lol you read the whole thread...why???
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Trader20
|
Posted - 2009.03.17 01:25:00 -
[679]
Originally by: Electric Universe
Edited by: Electric Universe on 17/03/2009 01:21:24
Originally by: Trader20
Edited by: Trader20 on 17/03/2009 01:19:45
Originally by: Electric Universe
Edited by: Electric Universe on 17/03/2009 00:43:30
quote]
WTF? No mwd on an abaddon, dude gtfo, u have never pvp'd and it's showing. Bs's in general are slow as hell especialy plated ones, so the range advangtage of pulses is multiplied when considering large turret ships.
Heh, yeah you can use MWD on an Abaddon, but thaaaaaaaaat's so gonna OM NOM NOM NOM you cap.
That's kinda funny actually.
Geeezzzz u don't leave the mwd on all the time nublet
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Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
|
Posted - 2009.03.17 01:28:00 -
[680]
Originally by: Trader20
Originally by: Electric Universe
Edited by: Electric Universe on 17/03/2009 01:21:24
Originally by: Trader20
Edited by: Trader20 on 17/03/2009 01:19:45
Originally by: Electric Universe
Edited by: Electric Universe on 17/03/2009 00:43:30
quote]
WTF? No mwd on an abaddon, dude gtfo, u have never pvp'd and it's showing. Bs's in general are slow as hell especialy plated ones, so the range advangtage of pulses is multiplied when considering large turret ships.
Heh, yeah you can use MWD on an Abaddon, but thaaaaaaaaat's so gonna OM NOM NOM NOM you cap.
That's kinda funny actually.
Geeezzzz u don't leave the mwd on all the time nublet
Have you ever heard about the thing that is called cap penalty for having an MWD fitted?.
First of all, the Lasers are really cap hungry, and then you want to nerf you cap by 17% more?.
That's asking for troubles tbh.
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Trader20
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Posted - 2009.03.17 01:43:00 -
[681]
Edited by: Trader20 on 17/03/2009 01:43:14
I just find it funny that you never actually fit an abaddon outside of eft....but ur geting off topic so plz stay on topic. TY
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Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
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Posted - 2009.03.17 01:55:00 -
[682]
Edited by: Electric Universe on 17/03/2009 02:00:08
Originally by: Trader20
Edited by: Trader20 on 17/03/2009 01:43:14
I just find it funny that you never actually fit an abaddon outside of eft....but ur geting off topic so plz stay on topic. TY
We was both off topic if we ever was off topic.
This topic is more about every races tbh.
You don't need to actually fly an Abaddon on TQ or Sisi to understand those penalties at all.
It's called reading something and learning how those things works with the MWD's and that. The thing with Afterburners and MWD's was something i learned after the first ships with those on in EVE.
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Goumindong
Amarr
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.03.17 02:23:00 -
[683]
Originally by: Mag's
Originally by: Goumindong
I don't get it, what is the point of showing graphs that the informed observer will know show how strong blaster ships are?
You're right, you don't get it. Even with your graphs, it shows how small the damage gap is and how lasers out perform blasters.
It isn't 30% extra damage from blasters, that's for sure.
Thanks for proving my point.
Yes, its actually much more than 30%. You didn't bother to look at the graphs did you?
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Theron Gyrow
Gradient
Electus Matari
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Posted - 2009.03.17 07:19:00 -
[684]
Originally by: Electric Universe
Have you ever heard about the thing that is called cap penalty for having an MWD fitted?.
First of all, the Lasers are really cap hungry, and then you want to nerf you cap by 17% more?.
That's asking for troubles tbh.
There is this fancy module, fits in a midslot, that solves cap problems. It's called "Heavy Capacitor Booster II", look it up. You'd need one even without the MWD.
Gods, a BS without a MWD? What a horrible thought. No matter where you fly - zero-sec, low-sec, high-sec - you want a MWD. No ifs, buts or elses.
--
Gradient forum |
Ephemeron
North Eastern Swat
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.03.17 08:32:00 -
[685]
Originally by: Theron Gyrow
Originally by: Electric Universe
Have you ever heard about the thing that is called cap penalty for having an MWD fitted?.
First of all, the Lasers are really cap hungry, and then you want to nerf you cap by 17% more?.
That's asking for troubles tbh.
There is this fancy module, fits in a midslot, that solves cap problems. It's called "Heavy Capacitor Booster II", look it up. You'd need one even without the MWD.
Gods, a BS without a MWD? What a horrible thought. No matter where you fly - zero-sec, low-sec, high-sec - you want a MWD. No ifs, buts or elses.
He's right, anyone who thinks that a pvp battleship without MWD is a good idea gets automatically discredited.
There are a lot of inexperienced people posting theory stuff. I wish there was some requirement and a test that people had to pass in order to participate in discussions of balance. A test on basics of PvP, and requirement on 50+ kills with or against ships being discussed.
You could still be a tard but at least a competent one.
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JadeMako
Aliastra
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Posted - 2009.03.17 11:24:00 -
[686]
Confirming Electric Universe is NightmareX alt
Obvious similarities are too obvious
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Childstar
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Posted - 2009.03.17 11:34:00 -
[687]
Originally by: Electric Universe
Heh, yeah you can use MWD on an Abaddon, but thaaaaaaaaat's so gonna OM NOM NOM NOM you cap. And you didn't know that?.
That's kinda funny actually.
What is funny is a player saying that a ship fitted with a mwd that hardly needs to use it cos of its available range is gonna burn cap when blaster ships need to almost constantly burn their mwd just to get near to their optimal.
PS: you are NMX its too obvious....and post 458 at the bottom made me laugh...
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Traderboz
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Posted - 2009.03.17 11:41:00 -
[688]
Originally by: JadeMako
Confirming Electric Universe is NightmareX alt
Obvious similarities are too obvious
Hm, I dunno, I haven't seen any SiSi 1v1's mentioned, nor have I seen Electric "report" anyone for going off-topic (obviously Navigator needs something to do)...
It's hard to say. ;p
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Mila Prestoc
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Posted - 2009.03.17 12:20:00 -
[689]
Edited by: Mila Prestoc on 17/03/2009 12:22:59
Originally by: Ephemeron
If you are talking about fitting difficulty for Mega Pulse geddon, then compare it to fitting neutron blasters on a Dominix - both tier 1 versions. I believe you'd still find the geddon has it easier.
I am aware that the Autocannons are rather weak weapons, but so far people aren't complaining because the Tempest and Typhoon are the most versatile of all battleships, able to make up for lack of dps in other ways, specifically by fitting heavy neuts. And the tempest has double damage bonus, which, in a way, brings AC damage up to par with blasters and lasers.
I'm all for boosting ACs - but only in a way that emphasizes their role. And their role is not in the damage they do, and not optimal - but all other stats.
Each of the 3 short range weapons deserves to have a clearly defined role.
They're pretty close in fitting, ANP give a way to save lots of CPU whilst there's no real way of saving PG besides named MWD/Cap Booster or lower tier guns. Domi with Electrons is just as good as Geddon imo. Little less damage and obviously less range on blasters, 2 additional mids, a better tank and spare drones (can use sentry and have pulse+scorch like range.
Sorry but couldn't disagree more on your analysis of ACs, Tempest and Typhoon. Complaints about Tempest have been pretty consistant since the end of the ECM+NOS days and the introduction of rigs. EVE is not what it used to be, versitility in 1 ship is very low value since we now have 3 tiers and rigs so there are a lot more ships more suitable for the job than a "versitile" ship.
Typhoon's true damage output is nothing like EFT says. Torps without range bonus (so max 17km), lose damage against anything moving or smaller than 450m. AC's lose damage from 3km-6km, and do rubbish damage with only a ROF bonus affecting them. Its only because of the drone bay the damage is held up, most people ignore large AC's for RR/Neuts.
DMF+ROF brings AC damage up to level of blasers/lasers?!? No way. Tempest + 800mm + RF EMP and your only just doing more DPS than a non-bonused Seige Launcher. Thats less damage per weapon than the smallest tier blaster with single ship bonus.
Boosting blaster damage will increase the gap to AC's, would also effective increase the range in which blasters outdamage ACs, which is already past web range. "there other stats" such as ? Tracking increase? Doesn't need it, what else is there? falloff increase?
TBH the role is more defined by the ship, if you differenciate the weapons to much then you'll end up with people only using that weapon for that situation. You'd see a lot more ships using blasters like the amarr tanky ships (maller, vengeance, punisher), hell you might even see Abaddons in solo/tiny gang station hugging with blasters and a active tank.
I would point out that i'm not for just making everything more alike to make them more balanced. I just don't think boosting 2 races weapons (in different ways) when just tweaking stuff like t2 ammo would work.
-------------------------
Originally by: "Lord Violent"
EvE is slowly becoming a game for the stupid, catered to by devs as they lack ability to kill/survive anything.
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The Djego
Minmatar
merovinger inc
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Posted - 2009.03.17 13:07:00 -
[690]
Originally by: Mila Prestoc
Originally by: Ephemeron
If you are talking about fitting difficulty for Mega Pulse geddon, then compare it to fitting neutron blasters on a Dominix - both tier 1 versions. I believe you'd still find the geddon has it easier.
I am aware that the Autocannons are rather weak weapons, but so far people aren't complaining because the Tempest and Typhoon are the most versatile of all battleships, able to make up for lack of dps in other ways, specifically by fitting heavy neuts. And the tempest has double damage bonus, which, in a way, brings AC damage up to par with blasters and lasers.
I'm all for boosting ACs - but only in a way that emphasizes their role. And their role is not in the damage they do, and not optimal - but all other stats.
Each of the 3 short range weapons deserves to have a clearly defined role.
They're pretty close in fitting, ANP give a way to save lots of CPU whilst there's no real way of saving PG besides named MWD/Cap Booster or lower tier guns. Domi with Electrons is just as good as Geddon imo. Little less damage and obviously less range on blasters, 2 additional mids, a better tank and spare drones (can use sentry and have pulse+scorch like range.
You need a Grid Rig to fit the Domi with Electrons actualy, you don¦t need it on the Gedon with DHP(Mega Puls is a diffrent story).
Originally by: Mila Prestoc
Sorry but couldn't disagree more on your analysis of ACs, Tempest and Typhoon. Complaints about Tempest have been pretty consistant since the end of the ECM+NOS days and the introduction of rigs. EVE is not what it used to be, versitility in 1 ship is very low value since we now have 3 tiers and rigs so there are a lot more ships more suitable for the job than a "versitile" ship.
Typhoon's true damage output is nothing like EFT says. Torps without range bonus (so max 17km), lose damage against anything moving or smaller than 450m. AC's lose damage from 3km-6km, and do rubbish damage with only a ROF bonus affecting them. Its only because of the drone bay the damage is held up, most people ignore large AC's for RR/Neuts.
DMF+ROF brings AC damage up to level of blasers/lasers?!? No way. Tempest + 800mm + RF EMP and your only just doing more DPS than a non-bonused Seige Launcher. Thats less damage per weapon than the smallest tier blaster with single ship bonus.
True, also ballancing Ships around the Tempest is wrong in the start, since the ship needs a adjustment for a long time now.
Originally by: Mila Prestoc
Boosting blaster damage will increase the gap to AC's, would also effective increase the range in which blasters outdamage ACs, which is already past web range. "there other stats" such as ? Tracking increase? Doesn't need it, what else is there? falloff increase?
Large AKs need fixing to(same as Pest and to a lesser Amount Phoon), nobody in the right mind would say it isn¦t so.
Originally by: Mila Prestoc
TBH the role is more defined by the ship, if you differenciate the weapons to much then you'll end up with people only using that weapon for that situation. You'd see a lot more ships using blasters like the amarr tanky ships (maller, vengeance, punisher), hell you might even see Abaddons in solo/tiny gang station hugging with blasters and a active tank.
This only happens to ships without a Gun Bonus(Cap Bonus only is allways meh on Amarr Ships). There is not a single good reason for fitting Blasters on the Abaddon.
Originally by: Mila Prestoc
I would point out that i'm not for just making everything more alike to make them more balanced. I just don't think boosting 2 races weapons (in different ways) when just tweaking stuff like t2 ammo would work.
Blasters and Aks would be still broken after this. A serious reballancing is needet to fix the core Problems(Falloff, prenerfed Faction Amno for AKs, better Damage Scaling between the Combat Ranges, Webs).
----
Nerf Tank - Boost Gank!
Originally by: Amantus
Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
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Mila Prestoc
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Posted - 2009.03.17 13:36:00 -
[691]
Originally by: The Djego
You need a Grid Rig to fit the Domi with Electrons actualy, you don¦t need it on the Gedon with DHP(Mega Puls is a diffrent story).
I thought the comparison being made was passive tanks with MWD, hence Electron+Ion Domi fits (med cap booster) as does a Megapulse Geddon (ANP to free cpu to fit).
Originally by: The Djego
True, also ballancing Ships around the Tempest is wrong in the start, since the ship needs a adjustment for a long time now.
Yeah, just highlighting it really. Tempest has been poor for a lot longer than "web nerf has nerfed my blasters" arguements.
Originally by: The Djego
Large AKs need fixing to(same as Pest and to a lesser Amount Phoon), nobody in the right mind would say it isn¦t so.
/me waits for nightmare to reappear, people are dissing his Tempest, but i'm allowed cos I beat it .
Originally by: The Djego
This only happens to ships without a Gun Bonus(Cap Bonus only is allways meh on Amarr Ships). There is not a single good reason for fitting Blasters on the Abaddon.
If there damage was raised by 25% like some people in this thread have said there would be. And it was kind of my point, showing how the ship bonuses drastically affect the end performance of the ship. If the Abaddon was cap reduction and resistance it would be nothing like the ship it is and there probably wouldn't be much of a arguement from the blaster people.
Originally by: The Djego
Blasters and Aks would be still broken after this. A serious reballancing is needet to fix the core Problems(Falloff, prenerfed Faction Amno for AKs, better Damage Scaling between the Combat Ranges, Webs).
Broken is going a bit far but yeah, just increasing damage/tracking/range doesn't really address Falloff (seriously, past optimal + 1/4 falloff damage becomes lol peashooter) and T2 ammo.
-------------------------
Originally by: "Lord Violent"
EvE is slowly becoming a game for the stupid, catered to by devs as they lack ability to kill/survive anything.
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Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
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Posted - 2009.03.17 13:44:00 -
[692]
Ok, now i just woke up. And what do i see?.
Yes someone accusing me for being NightmareX. I have NOTHING to do with NightmareX, no matter how my writing style is.
About the 2 links you linked to Childstar
It's not hard to read the topic and understand how things works and then use examples from others here in this topic when i'm explaning things.
When peoples tends to be right on something, then we usually links to what others have said right?.
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Blastil
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Posted - 2009.03.17 14:05:00 -
[693]
Galente Blaster ships have the specific role of providing primary tackle, and laying down the smack in small gangs where high DPS doesn't come from other ships. Lets face it, in a gang of 5 or 6, the DPS isn't incredible, but if you put a Deimos in as one of the gang, you start melting faces. If you want to use gallente for small gang PVP use blasters. If you want to use them for fleets, use rails(or better yet, drones). Both the Domi and the Mega make great fleet ships. You can fleet-fit either of the gallente BC's, and there exist fleet fits for two of their cruisers that are pretty intimidating.
However, if your REALLY into large fleet battles, nothing really does beat amarr(and nothing ever has). DPS, range, tank, and some Ewar help. Amarr BS's are some of the last actual PWN mobiles.
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Mag's
the united
Negative Ten.
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Posted - 2009.03.17 14:10:00 -
[694]
Originally by: Goumindong
Originally by: Mag's
Originally by: Goumindong
I don't get it, what is the point of showing graphs that the informed observer will know show how strong blaster ships are?
You're right, you don't get it. Even with your graphs, it shows how small the damage gap is and how lasers out perform blasters.
It isn't 30% extra damage from blasters, that's for sure.
Thanks for proving my point.
Yes, its actually much more than 30%. You didn't bother to look at the graphs did you?
Quoting for the comedy word play.
It's not even close to 30% never mind over that. Troll all you like gormy, you're wrong.
Regards
Mag's |
maralt
Minmatar
The seers of truth
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Posted - 2009.03.17 14:22:00 -
[695]
Edited by: maralt on 17/03/2009 14:24:19
Originally by: Blastil
Galente Blaster ships have the specific role of providing primary tackle, and laying down the smack in small gangs where high DPS doesn't come from other ships.Lets face it, in a gang of 5 or 6, the DPS isn't incredible, but if you put a Deimos in as one of the gang, you start melting faces.
If you want to use gallente for small gang PVP use blasters.
Unfortunately you cannot fit a great tank as well as "smack down" or "face melting" dps on a Deimos as well as a reasonable tank.
Anyway the brutix is a much better choice for that role, and even in a small gang vs small gang fight you will need logistics to keep the blaster boat alive as it is guaranteed to be a primary target as well as being in the optimal of every hostile ship (unless they are blaster ships as well)...hows that for irony.
If you want to die quickly in small gang combat fly a blaster ship.
Originally by: Blastil
If you want to use them for fleets, use rails(or better yet, drones).
Rails are not great but make a ok backup system if used on one of the drone ships and the very fact that the drone ships who's main dmg can only move at 1000ms with top skills (im using ogre II's for this example) and have a backup system that is rails are the best gang ships gallente have just shows how poor blasters are.
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Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
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Posted - 2009.03.17 14:30:00 -
[696]
Edited by: Electric Universe on 17/03/2009 14:33:24
Originally by: maralt
If you want to die quickly in small gang combat fly a blaster ship.
That must be the biggest joke ever.
No i'm not even kidding.
Originally by: Mag's
It's not even close to 30% never mind over that. Troll all you like gormy, you're wrong.
No matter what you say. The 30+% more damage on Neutrons than Pulses have in optimal range to the Neutrons is nothing more than true.
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maralt
Minmatar
The seers of truth
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Posted - 2009.03.17 14:58:00 -
[697]
Originally by: Electric Universe
Originally by: maralt
If you want to die quickly in small gang combat fly a blaster ship.
That must be the biggest joke ever.
No i'm not even kidding.
The Deimos.
A ship that operates within web range and in the high dmg range of every hostile ship in the opposing gang (unless they are blaster ships) and also has low EHP.
Now if you are such a great pvper can you explain why you think that saying that is a death trap is such a joke.
Originally by: Electric Universe
No matter what you say. The 30+% more damage on Neutrons than Pulses have in optimal range to the Neutrons is nothing more than true.
30% more dmg at 4.5km is meh when you consider that from 4.5km-10km that 30% is severely reducing down and at 8-10km lasers are matching or doing the most dmg.
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Goumindong
Amarr
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.03.17 15:00:00 -
[698]
Edited by: Goumindong on 17/03/2009 15:01:01
Originally by: Mag's
Quoting for the comedy word play.
It's not even close to 30% never mind over that. Troll all you like gormy, you're wrong.
Now, this might just be me. But when the line that has blaster damage is over 30% higher than the line that has laser damage that would be described as "more than 30% damage increase".
Originally by: maralt
The Deimos.
The problems of the Deimos have nothing to do with blasters and everything to do with Battlecruisers. Holding it up as an example of a bad ship due to blasters is just plain foolish.
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maralt
Minmatar
The seers of truth
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Posted - 2009.03.17 15:06:00 -
[699]
Edited by: maralt on 17/03/2009 15:06:51
Originally by: Goumindong
The problems of the Deimos have nothing to do with blasters and everything to do with Battlecruisers. Holding it up as an example of a bad ship due to blasters is just plain foolish.
Maybe you should read a little more before you post as i was replying to somebodies claim about a Deimos and in the reply i clearly point out about the battlecruiser (post 637).
But yet again you chose to ignore that part so you can troll.
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Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
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Posted - 2009.03.17 15:09:00 -
[700]
Edited by: Electric Universe on 17/03/2009 15:11:17
Originally by: maralt
30% more dmg at 4.5km is meh when you consider that from 4.5km-10km that 30% is severely reducing down and at 8-10km lasers are matching or doing the most dmg.
So only because you fail to warp you Neutron Mega right on top of your enemies doesn't mean that Blasters sucks.
30% more at Neutrons optimal is meh?.
Dude your asking WAY to much when you want to have it any higher.
30% is ALOT.
Originally by: maralt
Originally by: Electric Universe
Originally by: maralt
If you want to die quickly in small gang combat fly a blaster ship.
That must be the biggest joke ever.
No i'm not even kidding.
The Deimos.........
You didn't say Deimos on the post i replied to there, you said Blaster ships. And Blaster ships is not only a Deimos.
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Blastil
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Posted - 2009.03.17 15:10:00 -
[701]
Originally by: maralt
Edited by: maralt on 17/03/2009 14:34:39
Originally by: Blastil
Galente Blaster ships have the specific role of providing primary tackle, and laying down the smack in small gangs where high DPS doesn't come from other ships.Lets face it, in a gang of 5 or 6, the DPS isn't incredible, but if you put a Deimos in as one of the gang, you start melting faces.
If you want to use gallente for small gang PVP use blasters.
Unfortunately you cannot fit a great tank as well as "smack down" or "face melting" dps on a Deimos as well as a reasonable tank. As well as the fact that 3 mids on a cap reliant ship that you have designated a dmg dealer and primary tackler is not enough.
Anyway the brutix is a much better choice for that role, and even in a small gang vs small gang fight you will need logistics to keep the blaster boat alive as it is guaranteed to be a primary target as well as being in the optimal of every hostile ship (unless they are blaster ships as well)...hows that for irony.
If you want to die quickly in small gang combat fly a blaster ship.
Originally by: Blastil
If you want to use them for fleets, use rails(or better yet, drones).
Rails are not great but make a ok backup system if used on one of the drone ships and the very fact that the drone ships who's main dmg can only move at 1000ms with top skills (im using ogre II's for this example) and have a backup system that is rails are the best gang ships gallente have just shows how poor blasters are.
Oh and this thread is about BS blaster ships more than the med classes.
I disagree, that you in fact, CAN fit face-melting DPS and a reasonable tank on a deimos. Your standard plate n' gank deimos combined with a ship like a curse or a ishtar with RR drones for after the fight is done makes an EXCELLENT small gang PVP ship. Like ALL HAC's its reliant on its Recon counterparts to keep it alive. very few HAC's make good SOLO ships, that couldn't be replaced by one or a combo of two other cheeper ships. Your deimos's lows should be something like 2 magstabs, ANM II, Exp hardener II, DCII, and a 1600 MM plate. That puts your diemos at something lie 600 DPS with GUNS ONLY and a buffer tank that's a tough nut to crack. combined with TD's, or ECM ships, you can EASILY survive long enough to get through a fight. Maybe you just have ****ty E-war support in your gangs.
While its true that anything a deimos does a brutix does cheeper, there's always advantages to using a HAC over a BC, it just depends on your gang and objectives. Like all ships, the Deimos( or any blaster ship ) Shines in its role, you just have to have a good FC, and competent EWAR pilots to succeed. When short on Ewar, YES, a blaster ship is either a one shot gank, or a death trap, but when combined with other ships it's pretty damn amazing.
As for your problems with drone boats sucking or being 'slow', I've got two words for you:
Sentry Drones.
End of story. same DPS, 200X the range, just immobile. If your a rail domi or an ishtar, just click orbit around one of your drones and watch the fireworks.
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maralt
Minmatar
The seers of truth
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Posted - 2009.03.17 15:21:00 -
[702]
Edited by: maralt on 17/03/2009 15:25:23
Originally by: Electric Universe
So only because you fail to warp you Neutron Mega right on top of your enemies doesn't mean that Blasters sucks.
You can warp in at 0 and nail the first ship doing 30% more dmg but unless the other ships are afk by the time you get around to the secondary they not going to be at 4.5km anymore, and the range gets greater and greater over time.
Originally by: Electric Universe
30% more at Neutrons optimal is meh?.
If blasters did more dmg than lasers upto 10-20km then we would not be having this discussion but 30% at 4.5km falling off to less dmg from 8-10km is a joke.
Originally by: Electric Universe
You didn't say Deimos on the post i replied to there, you said Blaster ships. And Blaster ships is not only a Deimos.
If you choose to ignore and snip out the topic of discussion and reference points regarding the deimos that is your decision.
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Goumindong
Amarr
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.03.17 15:26:00 -
[703]
Originally by: maralt
Edited by: maralt on 17/03/2009 15:06:51
Originally by: Goumindong
The problems of the Deimos have nothing to do with blasters and everything to do with Battlecruisers. Holding it up as an example of a bad ship due to blasters is just plain foolish.
Maybe you should read a little more before you post as i was replying to somebodies claim about a Deimos and in the reply i clearly point out about the battlecruiser (post 637).
But yet again you chose to ignore that part so you can troll.
Besides him not talking about the Deimos specifically, you only mentioned the Brutix off hand. The Deimos is not bad for any of the reasons you listed there(all of which have been thoroughly debunked already in this and other threads), it is only bad because it does not perform better than a Brutix.
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Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
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Posted - 2009.03.17 15:32:00 -
[704]
Edited by: Electric Universe on 17/03/2009 15:33:11
Originally by: maralt
If blasters did matched or did a little more dmg than lasers upto 10-20km then we would not be having this discussion but 30% at 4.5km falling off to less dmg from 8-10km is a joke.
Blasters is not Lasers. How hard is it to understand that?.
Blasters is extremely close range weapons. End of story.
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Blastil
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Posted - 2009.03.17 15:33:00 -
[705]
Originally by: Goumindong
Originally by: maralt
Edited by: maralt on 17/03/2009 15:06:51
Originally by: Goumindong
The problems of the Deimos have nothing to do with blasters and everything to do with Battlecruisers. Holding it up as an example of a bad ship due to blasters is just plain foolish.
Maybe you should read a little more before you post as i was replying to somebodies claim about a Deimos and in the reply i clearly point out about the battlecruiser (post 637).
But yet again you chose to ignore that part so you can troll.
Besides him not talking about the Deimos specifically, you only mentioned the Brutix off hand. The Deimos is not bad for any of the reasons you listed there(all of which have been thoroughly debunked already in this and other threads), it is only bad because it does not perform better than a Brutix.
Truth. There's only one real reason you'd fly a deimos over a brutix and thats to 1- stick out less 2- not get laughed out of HAC gangs, and 3- reduced sig radius.
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maralt
Minmatar
The seers of truth
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Posted - 2009.03.17 15:35:00 -
[706]
Originally by: Goumindong
Besides him not talking about the Deimos specifically, you only mentioned the Brutix off hand.
You call this off hand?.
Anyway the brutix is a much better choice for that role, and even in a small gang vs small gang fight you will need logistics to keep the blaster boat alive as it is guaranteed to be a primary target as well as being in the optimal of every hostile ship (unless they are blaster ships as well)...hows that for irony.
Originally by: Goumindong
The Deimos is not bad for any of the reasons you listed there(all of which have been thoroughly debunked already in this and other threads)
The only thing that has been debunked in this thread and others is your impartiality when it comes to matters regarding amarr, and the honesty of certain alts.
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The Djego
Minmatar
merovinger inc
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Posted - 2009.03.17 15:35:00 -
[707]
Originally by: Mila Prestoc
Originally by: The Djego
You need a Grid Rig to fit the Domi with Electrons actualy, you don¦t need it on the Gedon with DHP(Mega Puls is a diffrent story).
I thought the comparison being made was passive tanks with MWD, hence Electron+Ion Domi fits (med cap booster) as does a Megapulse Geddon (ANP to free cpu to fit).
I did some Plates and a Large Rep with Heavy Cap Booster and MWD(outganking the Gedon a bit for a the general EHP/Range tradeoff) since we where on Gedon like fittings. Plate Gank fittings work with Domis, but most people still prefere Megas for this job. Both ship end up preaty diffrent in actual gameplay by this.
Originally by: Mila Prestoc
Originally by: The Djego
This only happens to ships without a Gun Bonus(Cap Bonus only is allways meh on Amarr Ships). There is not a single good reason for fitting Blasters on the Abaddon.
If there damage was raised by 25% like some people in this thread have said there would be. And it was kind of my point, showing how the ship bonuses drastically affect the end performance of the ship. If the Abaddon was cap reduction and resistance it would be nothing like the ship it is and there probably wouldn't be much of a arguement from the blaster people.)
The Abaddon at itself is a great ship(gooing Damage instead of Cap Bonus would help Prohecy and Maller also by a fair amout). Im preaty shure you would see a lot less around of them if they had a Cap Bonus(and more Gedons instead) and a lot of Abaddons with AKs/Blasters(like It actualy was done by some people before the Laser Boost/Resist change).
Looking at my Mega I see about 20% more Turret DPS than the standard 3 MFS + Neutron fittings(without Imps and DPS related Rigs, 1xSS MFS, Large Blaster Spec 5 etc.). It isn¦t this impressive actualy as it sounds in the end. If you maxing a ship out skillwhise(what take about 2 years) and stick 300 M in Implants(to make it fit and get the DPS only) plus 200 M in fitting on a ship just to become suitable for his role isn¦t a very good sign of ballance in the end. Ofc this ship has a decand chance of tearing other Ships apart at close range but this is actualy the intention behind it afterall.
The legend of the unstopable close range Blaster ship lives from Implants(DPS, Fitting, HP related) and expensive Fittings. If you strip this off and look at it, it isn¦t anything special at all and it starts failing a lot in general Combat on TQ.
I see your point in adjusting the Bonuses directly at the ships instead of the Weapons, I personaly won¦t mind about this(beeing more effective with another kind of weapon that the intendet is mostly because of the Ship+the Weapon don¦t work this good together in the end).
Originally by: Mila Prestoc
Originally by: The Djego
Blasters and Aks would be still broken after this. A serious reballancing is needet to fix the core Problems(Falloff, prenerfed Faction Amno for AKs, better Damage Scaling between the Combat Ranges, Webs).
Broken is going a bit far but yeah, just increasing damage/tracking/range doesn't really address Falloff (seriously, past optimal + 1/4 falloff damage becomes lol peashooter) and T2 ammo.
Well you can fix T2 Short range Amno. Giving it more Damage makes Faction Amno obsoleet, taking away the penaltys will do this to. With the 60% Web(what is to low actualy) CCP created a brillant new role for a T2 Amno -> less Damage, more tracking/smaller Sig resulution/more speed for Missles -> defensive Amno vs smaller Stuff at close range what actualy would be a great role for it and makes all usefull instead of switching 2 from usefull to obsoleet.
----
Nerf Tank - Boost Gank!
Originally by: Amantus
Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
|
maralt
Minmatar
The seers of truth
|
Posted - 2009.03.17 15:38:00 -
[708]
Originally by: Blastil
Truth. There's only one real reason you'd fly a deimos over a brutix and thats to 1- stick out less 2- not get laughed out of HAC gangs, and 3- reduced sig radius.
If i had 2 pilots turn up for that gang and one was in a brutix and the other a deimos id choose the brutix every time even if it was a hac/recon gang.
|
Goumindong
Amarr
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.03.17 15:45:00 -
[709]
Originally by: maralt
You call this off hand?.
Anyway the brutix is a much better choice for that role, and even in a small gang vs small gang fight you will need logistics to keep the blaster boat alive as it is guaranteed to be a primary target as well as being in the optimal of every hostile ship (unless they are blaster ships as well)...hows that for irony.
Yes. It is. You mention off hand that the brutix is the reason to not fly it, while then saying all blaster boats are terrible. In the previous section you argued specifically against blaster boats again.
You see, the Deimos is not bad because its a blaster boat, its bad because it does not perform differently than the Brutix. Its the same reason that assault frigates are/were bad. Not because they were necessarily bad, but because they didn't perform differently than cruisers such bringing the AF instead of the cruiser was foolish.
|
maralt
Minmatar
The seers of truth
|
Posted - 2009.03.17 15:53:00 -
[710]
Edited by: maralt on 17/03/2009 15:54:53
Originally by: Goumindong
Originally by: maralt
You call this off hand?.
Anyway the brutix is a much better choice for that role, and even in a small gang vs small gang fight you will need logistics to keep the blaster boat alive as it is guaranteed to be a primary target as well as being in the optimal of every hostile ship (unless they are blaster ships as well)...hows that for irony.
Yes. It is. You mention off hand that the brutix is the reason to not fly it, while then saying all blaster boats are terrible. In the previous section you argued specifically against blaster boats again.
And yet you agree that the brutix is the reason not to fly it...
Anyway in gang combat a ship that not only has less EHP but also needs to burn well within web range of the hostile targets, and in doing so puts its self well within the optimal and high dmg range of the entire enemy gang IS considerably less survivable than one that has the option to operate well outside web and even point range and has greater EHP.
If you dispute that reasoning and those facts you have real problems, but do try if you wish to as it will further illustrate how biased you are.
|
|
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Mag's
the united
Negative Ten.
|
Posted - 2009.03.17 15:54:00 -
[711]
Originally by: Goumindong
Edited by: Goumindong on 17/03/2009 15:01:01
Originally by: Mag's
Quoting for the comedy word play.
It's not even close to 30% never mind over that. Troll all you like gormy, you're wrong.
Now, this might just be me. But when the line that has blaster damage is over 30% higher than the line that has laser damage that would be described as "more than 30% damage increase".
wow so at the awesome point of 4.5km it's 30%.
Still means next to nothing in a TQ fight.
Maralt said it perfectly.
Originally by: maralt
30% more dmg at 4.5km is meh when you consider that from 4.5km-10km that 30% is severely reducing down and at 8-10km lasers are matching or doing the most dmg.
Pulse > Blasters it's a fact, no matter what word games you play and how you twist the facts.
Regards
Mag's |
Goumindong
Amarr
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.03.17 15:58:00 -
[712]
Originally by: maralt
And yet you agree that the brutix is the reason not to fly it...
But you do not, at least your posts do not indicate so. You are saying that the fact that it doesn't perform differently than the brutix is ancillary to the primary reason you should not fly it, that its a blaster boat. But the reason its not a good ship is not because its a blaster boat, but because the brutix does what it does cheaper.
Quote:
Anyway in gang combat a ship that not only has less EHP but also needs to burn within web range of the hostile target and in doing so puts its self within the optimal and high dmg range of the entire enemy gang IS considerably less survivable than one that has the option to operate well outside web and even point range and has greater EHP.
If you dispute that reasoning and those facts you have real problems, but do try if you wish to as it will further illustrate how biased you are.
As i've said many times. It depends on how large your gang is. Then again, you aren't seriously arguing that blaster ships should be better than laser ships in gangs are you?
|
Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
|
Posted - 2009.03.17 16:11:00 -
[713]
Originally by: Mag's
wow so at the awesome point of 4.5km it's 30%.
Still means next to nothing in a TQ fight.
This must be the dumbest thing i have readed here.
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maralt
Minmatar
The seers of truth
|
Posted - 2009.03.17 16:14:00 -
[714]
Originally by: Goumindong
Originally by: maralt
And yet you agree that the brutix is the reason not to fly it...
But you do not, at least your posts do not indicate so. You are saying that the fact that it doesn't perform differently than the brutix is ancillary to the primary reason you should not fly it, that its a blaster boat. But the reason its not a good ship is not because its a blaster boat, but because the brutix does what it does cheaper.
Quote:
Anyway in gang combat a ship that not only has less EHP but also needs to burn within web range of the hostile target and in doing so puts its self within the optimal and high dmg range of the entire enemy gang IS considerably less survivable than one that has the option to operate well outside web and even point range and has greater EHP.
If you dispute that reasoning and those facts you have real problems, but do try if you wish to as it will further illustrate how biased you are.
As i've said many times. It depends on how large your gang is. Then again, you aren't seriously arguing that blaster ships should be better than laser ships in gangs are you?
Yea in a BS gang larger than 1 laser are the better ships, in gangs of 1 the starting range of the fight and fit makes it debatable although in a lot of scenarios id give it to the blaster BS.
Nobody is arguing that, although many times now and in several threads you have attempted to spin that line in the hopes of garnering the support of the ignorant amarr pilots who may feel threatened after seeing such a comment.
Blaster BS need to be better in gang combat than they are now and lasers are just being used as a yard stick. If anything myself and others are using laser stats ect to make sure the buff to blasters does not make blasters better than lasers in gang combat just better than they are now.
|
Mila Prestoc
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Posted - 2009.03.17 16:17:00 -
[715]
Originally by: The Djego
Well you can fix T2 Short range Amno. Giving it more Damage makes Faction Amno obsoleet, taking away the penaltys will do this to. With the 60% Web(what is to low actualy) CCP created a brillant new role for a T2 Amno -> less Damage, more tracking/smaller Sig resulution/more speed for Missles -> defensive Amno vs smaller Stuff at close range what actualy would be a great role for it and makes all usefull instead of switching 2 from usefull to obsoleet.
Well faction items are nearly always better than t2, my issue is the gap between faction and t2 ammo is to big.
I'm completely against tracking bonused ammo, it will just make using smaller ships pointless. Thats kind of how things were before the nano age, big ships = insta death unless you can run away or abuse EW.
Going completely from memory here but what I do like is how Null works with ranges. It doesn't reduce optimal as much as AM but also reduces falloff. So increases the range at which it can do full damage but also increases the rate at which the damage drops off. If there was no tracking penalty I think it would be a viable alternative to faction AM.
Hail on the other hand is completely overpenalized with optimal, falloff and tracking penalties. If it had say no tracking penalty or optimal penalty (maybe bonus) it would give another option.
Just brainstorm here, could be mad.
-------------------------
Originally by: "Lord Violent"
EvE is slowly becoming a game for the stupid, catered to by devs as they lack ability to kill/survive anything.
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Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
|
Posted - 2009.03.17 16:24:00 -
[716]
Edited by: Electric Universe on 17/03/2009 16:25:15
Originally by: maralt
Blaster BS need to be better in gang combat than they are now and lasers are just being used as a yard stick. If anything myself and others are using laser stats ect to make sure the buff to blasters does not make blasters better than lasers in gang combat just better than they are now.
Blasters is good enough if you only can use your brain a bit.
Do you really think that we will listen to the lazy mans race (Amarr) who only have to press F1-F8 and watch the fireworks?.
It's not even thinking, at all.
With Blaster ships, you have to think before you do anything, and it's the same with Minmatar ships to.
Amarr players who don't think before using Gallente BS'es and Blasters and that are whining because you have to use your damn brain is pretty damn funny.
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Ephemeron
North Eastern Swat
Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2009.03.17 16:50:00 -
[717]
Originally by: Electric Universe
Blasters is good enough if you only can use your brain a bit. End of story.
Do you really think that we will listen to the lazy mans race (Amarr) who only have to press F1-F8 and watch the fireworks?.
It's not even thinking, at all.
With Gallente ships, you have to think before you do anything, and it's the same with Minmatar ships to.
Amarr players who don't think before using Gallente BS'es and Blasters and that are doing some epic whining because you have to use your damn brain is pretty damn funny.
Just to make a point - if you are talking about a "lazy race that just presses F1+" then you have to be talking about Caldari - no other race comes even close. There's a reason why 60% of the player base farms in Ravens and Drakes.
It's not really relevant this this discussion, but the fact that you had such incorrect opinion puts yet another dent in your credibility.
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Mag's
the united
Negative Ten.
|
Posted - 2009.03.17 17:10:00 -
[718]
Originally by: Electric Universe
Originally by: Mag's
wow so at the awesome point of 4.5km it's 30%.
Still means next to nothing in a TQ fight.
This must be the dumbest thing i have readed here.
So you're saying that most fights on TQ are at 4.5Km?
Who's dumb?
Oh and it's 'read' not readed.
Regards
Mag's |
Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
|
Posted - 2009.03.17 17:33:00 -
[719]
Originally by: Childstar
Edited by: Childstar on 17/03/2009 17:10:29
Originally by: Electric Universe
Blasters is good enough if you only can use your brain a bit. End of story.
Using your brain will not help blasters in gang combat, as its the ability of the ships and weapons that is the problem.
Originally by: Electric Universe
Do you really think that we will listen to the lazy mans race (Amarr) who only have to press F1-F8 and watch the fireworks?.
Their is no WE there is only you and your main.
First off, yes, if you use your brain and use the Megathron with Blaster or any other ships / weapons right, you can ALWAYS get them to work, no matter what.
It all depends on the players.
When someone whine that one weapon is crap, then there is always someone there that can give proofs that the weapon works if you want them to work. Ofc this will involve a bit of isk and thinking.
So no matter what you say, the Blasters works fine, no matter reasons you whiners comes with.
I have even seen low skilled Megatheon pilots pwn the crap out of other BS'es and ships, simply because he did exactly everythng right with the ship.
So now stop with the whining and learn how to use the ship(s).
|
Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
|
Posted - 2009.03.17 17:37:00 -
[720]
Originally by: Mag's
Originally by: Electric Universe
Originally by: Mag's
wow so at the awesome point of 4.5km it's 30%.
Still means next to nothing in a TQ fight.
This must be the dumbest thing i have readed here.
So you're saying that most fights on TQ are at 4.5Km?
Who's dumb?
Oh and it's 'read' not readed.
Who's dumb?, do you really think a gang of mostly Gallente ships warps into 20 km and start the fight there?.
HAHAH, your really trying to look stupid here.
OFC the gang with Gallente ships will warp right on top of you ass and pwn the crap out of you dude.
And if you jump in to a system that is camped by someone, and land 20-25 km from them, then how long time does it take to MWD 15-17 km in a Mega?, meh, only some few secs. Oh noes, ONLY some few secs.
So, you still wanna try to look away from how things are?.
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|
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Mag's
the united
Negative Ten.
|
Posted - 2009.03.17 17:45:00 -
[721]
Originally by: Electric Universe
Who's dumb?, do you really think a gang of mostly Gallente ships warps into 20 km and start the fight there?.
HAHAH, your really trying to look stupid here.
OFC the gang with Gallente ships will warp right on top of you ass and pwn the crap out of you dude.
And if you jump in to a system that is camped by someone, and land 20-25 km from them, then how long time does it take to MWD 15-17 km in a Mega?, meh, only some few secs. Oh noes, ONLY some few secs.
So, you still wanna try to look away from how things are?.
Who the hell mentioned a gang of Gallente ships?????
Jeez you've lost the plot, maybe you should follow your main and stop posting.
Just out of interest, why did you stop posting with your main? Embarrest I guess.
Regards
Mag's |
The Djego
Minmatar
merovinger inc
|
Posted - 2009.03.17 17:50:00 -
[722]
Originally by: Mila Prestoc
Originally by: The Djego
Well you can fix T2 Short range Amno. Giving it more Damage makes Faction Amno obsoleet, taking away the penaltys will do this to. With the 60% Web(what is to low actualy) CCP created a brillant new role for a T2 Amno -> less Damage, more tracking/smaller Sig resulution/more speed for Missles -> defensive Amno vs smaller Stuff at close range what actualy would be a great role for it and makes all usefull instead of switching 2 from usefull to obsoleet.
Well faction items are nearly always better than t2, my issue is the gap between faction and t2 ammo is to big.
I'm completely against tracking bonused ammo, it will just make using smaller ships pointless. Thats kind of how things were before the nano age, big ships = insta death unless you can run away or abuse EW.
Well people gang up or fit more Neuts this days. Im personaly mostly looking for a solution in small scale/solo. So about 100% more tracking 30% of the actual Damage and a penalty that hurts very hard in bigger Gangs, Scan resultion comes in mind here.
Would be at least a deacend role.
Originally by: Mila Prestoc
Going completely from memory here but what I do like is how Null works with ranges. It doesn't reduce optimal as much as AM but also reduces falloff. So increases the range at which it can do full damage but also increases the rate at which the damage drops off. If there was no tracking penalty I think it would be a viable alternative to faction AM.
Hail on the other hand is completely overpenalized with optimal, falloff and tracking penalties. If it had say no tracking penalty or optimal penalty (maybe bonus) it would give another option.
Just brainstorm here, could be mad.
Null increases Optimal and Falloff by 25% with a 25% Tracking Penalty.
Void decreases Optimal(by 25%, AN by 50%) and also cuts Falloff into halve with 50% Trackng Penalty(plus 25% more Cap need).
Hail does exactly the same(with even less Optimal than Void and with the Cap Recharge penalty instead of more Cap use for the guns since they are capless). Actualy it is also the only Amno that outperfoms his Faction Counterpart(more Raw Damage, extrem high Explosive amount in the DPS mix) but the problem is that AKs don¦t have any real Optimal Range and the tracking Penalty gets even more worse for firing in Falloff.
Null actualy reduces the DPS by a fair amout(about 25%) and gives another 5km Optimal(with Neutrons), there arn¦t many situations the extra Optimal realy would make the diffrence, it is actualy the ability with BS to hit the edge of Disruptor Range against stuff you can¦t reach(a Option other Weapon Systems have with T1 Amno, exept Torps without the range Bonus). With medium Electrons you need this Amno to hit anything beyond 7km allready with some DPS.
Shure we could tweak Void, Hail and Conflag but in the end it does the same thing like Faction Amno and one of them will be clearly better and the other one worse(like it is now).
----
Nerf Tank - Boost Gank!
Originally by: Amantus
Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
|
Lord Eremet
|
Posted - 2009.03.17 17:52:00 -
[723]
Electric Universe = NightmareX ?
I bet one mil that it his him, no earlier posts made from Electric except in this thread. Or is it a coincidence that he suddenly show up right after that NighmareX probably got forum banned?
|
Mag's
the united
Negative Ten.
|
Posted - 2009.03.17 17:53:00 -
[724]
Originally by: Lord Eremet
Electric Universe = NightmareX ?
I bet one mil that it his him, no earlier posts made from Electric except in this thread. Or is it a coincidence that he suddenly show up right after that NighmareX probably got forum banned?
It is him.
Regards
Mag's |
maralt
Minmatar
The seers of truth
|
Posted - 2009.03.17 18:00:00 -
[725]
Edited by: maralt on 17/03/2009 18:01:47
Originally by: Electric Universe
First off, yes, if you use your brain and use the Megathron with Blaster or any other ships / weapons right, you can ALWAYS get them to work, no matter what.
It all depends on the players.
Exactly so, and when both sides know how to use their ships equally as well as the other, blasters either lose badly if the fight starts at 15+km or win but take heavy losses if the fight starts at 0-5km.
Originally by: Electric Universe
Who's dumb?, do you really think a gang of mostly Gallente ships warps into 20 km and start the fight there?.
HAHAH, your really trying to look stupid here.
OFC the gang with Gallente ships will warp right on top of you ass and pwn the crap out of you dude.
The stupid person in my opinion is the one that thinks that the gang that the blaster ships land on top of will just sit still and not burn away.
The blaster ships may kill the first ship slightly faster than the opposing gang but after the first the opposing gang will be well out of range and burning away at speed while dishing out a lot more dps than the megas can manage at the ranges they are now at.
Originally by: Electric Universe
And if you jump in to a system that is camped by someone, and land 20-25 km from them, then how long time does it take to MWD 15-17 km in a Mega?, meh, only some few secs. Oh noes, ONLY some few secs.
Ok so im jumping into a blaster BS gang on a gate to engage them with my laser BS gang.
1. We jump in all break cloak and burn away firing at the primary.
2. The megas approach their primary and need to accelerate from 0-800ish ms, now taking into account the laser ship burning away and also needing to accelerate it will take at least 20 or more seconds for the megas to get even close to optimal.
3. At this point il be generous and say that both sides have lost a ship each.
4. After finishing off the primary laser ship the megas go after the secondary and again need to accelerate, but this time the laser ship is farther away and already up to top speed.
5. The laser ships continue to melt mega after mega while the megas would be lucky to get many more than a couple of kills as they spend most of the fight trying to catch up with the laser ships.
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Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
|
Posted - 2009.03.17 18:04:00 -
[726]
Originally by: Mag's
Originally by: Electric Universe
Who's dumb?, do you really think a gang of mostly Gallente ships warps into 20 km and start the fight there?.
HAHAH, your really trying to look stupid here.
OFC the gang with Gallente ships will warp right on top of you ass and pwn the crap out of you dude.
And if you jump in to a system that is camped by someone, and land 20-25 km from them, then how long time does it take to MWD 15-17 km in a Mega?, meh, only some few secs. Oh noes, ONLY some few secs.
So, you still wanna try to look away from how things are?.
Who the hell mentioned a gang of Gallente ships?????
Jeez you've lost the plot, maybe you should follow your main and stop posting.
Just out of interest, why did you stop posting with your main? Embarrest I guess.
Uhm, we was talking about Blasters, and what kind of ships use Blasters?, yes Gallente ships and some very few Caldari ships.
And when we talk about Blasters, then i give explanations on how to use the ships WITH Blasters right.
Also, just to let you guys stop speculating about me. Yes i'm a friend to NightmareX, and this is also my Main character.
And also to let you know another thing about NightmareX. He have 10-11 days left of his forum ban. And because his alt is on the same account as NightmareX. Then he can't post with his alt either. It's simple as that. Fatality Killer is his alt.
sophisticatedlimabean also got a 2 week ban from the forum, but he have maralt he can post on.
Happy now?.
|
Childstar
|
Posted - 2009.03.17 18:12:00 -
[727]
Edited by: Childstar on 17/03/2009 18:15:31
Originally by: Electric Universe
Also, just to let you guys stop speculating about me. Yes i'm a friend to NightmareX, and this is also my Main character.
And also to let you know another thing about NightmareX. He have 10-11 days left of his forum ban. And because his alt is on the same account as NightmareX. Then he can't post with his alt either. It's simple as that. Fatality Killer is his alt.
sophisticatedlimabean also got a 2 week ban from the forum, but he have maralt he can post on.
Happy now?.
You post exactly the same way, you structure your sentences exactly the same way (one line at a time instead of paragraphs), you link to other pages exactly the same way, you make the exact same grammar and spelling mistakes.
You are obviously his alt on another account and i do not know how old you are but if you think you are kidding anybody you really need to grow up and smell the roses.
|
Mag's
the united
Negative Ten.
|
Posted - 2009.03.17 18:18:00 -
[728]
Originally by: Electric Universe
Uhm, we was talking about Blasters, and what kind of ships use Blasters?, yes Gallente ships and some very few Caldari ships.
And when we talk about Blasters, then i give explanations on how to use the ships WITH Blasters right.
I'm talking about TQ gangs, not made up sisi type stuff, I've never once been in a mainly Gallente gang on TQ, and I was talking about the relation of damage to lasers, I never once mentioned Gallente heavy gangs.
Originally by: Electric Universe
Also, just to let you guys stop speculating about me. Yes i'm a friend to NightmareX, and this is also my Main character.
And also to let you know another thing about NightmareX. He have 10-11 days left of his forum ban. And because his alt is on the same account as NightmareX. Then he can't post with his alt either. It's simple as that. Fatality Killer is his alt.
sophisticatedlimabean also got a 2 week ban from the forum, but he have maralt he can post on.
Happy now?.
Your posting style is very easy to spot, you're NightmareX.
I'll show you one of your give aways, in a sentence below.
you post like this.
Regards
Mag's |
Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
|
Posted - 2009.03.17 18:19:00 -
[729]
Edited by: Electric Universe on 17/03/2009 18:23:07
Originally by: Childstar
Edited by: Childstar on 17/03/2009 18:15:31
Originally by: Electric Universe
Also, just to let you guys stop speculating about me. Yes i'm a friend to NightmareX, and this is also my Main character.
And also to let you know another thing about NightmareX. He have 10-11 days left of his forum ban. And because his alt is on the same account as NightmareX. Then he can't post with his alt either. It's simple as that. Fatality Killer is his alt.
sophisticatedlimabean also got a 2 week ban from the forum, but he have maralt he can post on.
Happy now?.
You post exactly the same way, you structure your sentences exactly the same way (one line at a time instead of paragraphs), you link to other pages exactly the same way, you make the exact same grammar and spelling mistakes.
You are obviously his alt on another account and i do not know how old you are but if you think you are kidding anybody you really need to grow up and smell the roses.
NightmareX only have 1 account.
So what, because i'm a friend of him and have almost the same posting style as him doesn't mean i'm his alt, at all.
This is just getting way ridicoulus. Because you accuse me of being NightmareX, when i'm not, i'm gonna start to report peoples here that accuse me for being someone that isn't me.
I don't like the accusing thing.
|
Mag's
the united
Negative Ten.
|
Posted - 2009.03.17 18:21:00 -
[730]
Originally by: Electric Universe
NightmareX only have 1 account.
So what, because i'm a friend of him and have almost the same posting style as him doesn't mean i'm his alt, at all.
Regards
Mag's |
|
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Childstar
|
Posted - 2009.03.17 18:29:00 -
[731]
Edited by: Childstar on 17/03/2009 18:29:58
Originally by: Electric Universe
NightmareX only have 1 account.
So what, because i'm a friend of him and have almost the same posting style as him doesn't mean i'm his alt, at all.
Its so obvious its laughable, as i say you even make the exact same spelling/grammar mistakes in the exact same way in your posting.
But what ever its your reputation and integrity that is on the line as well as the fact that ppl do not like being lied to, if you feel you still need to lie about it thats your problem but remember most people on here know the truth and can see it as plain as day and the more you deny it the worse you look.
I suggest you man up and admit it as denying it is doing you no favors.
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Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
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Posted - 2009.03.17 18:34:00 -
[732]
Edited by: Electric Universe on 17/03/2009 18:34:28
Originally by: Childstar
Edited by: Childstar on 17/03/2009 18:29:58
Originally by: Electric Universe
NightmareX only have 1 account.
So what, because i'm a friend of him and have almost the same posting style as him doesn't mean i'm his alt, at all.
Its so obvious its laughable, as i say you even make the exact same spelling/grammar mistakes in the exact same way in your posting.
But what ever its your reputation and integrity that is on the line as well as the fact that ppl do not like being lied to, if you feel you still need to lie about it thats your problem but remember most people on here know the truth and can see it as plain as day and the more you deny it the worse you look.
I suggest you man up and admit it as denying it is doing you no favors.
I will say it one more time and i hope it will be my last time about this. As long you don't want to get reported about this accusing thing.
NightmareX is not my main.
NightmareX lives in +lesund in Norway, while i live in Oslo. That's a 8 hours car trip from +lesund to Oslo.
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Fistme
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Posted - 2009.03.17 18:34:00 -
[733]
Originally by: Electric Universe
NightmareX only have 1 account.
So what, because i'm a friend of him and have almost the same posting style as him doesn't mean i'm his alt, at all.
This is just getting way ridicoulus. Because you accuse me of being NightmareX, when i'm not, i'm gonna start to report peoples here that accuse me for being someone that isn't me.
Comedy Gold
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Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
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Posted - 2009.03.17 18:37:00 -
[734]
Edited by: Electric Universe on 17/03/2009 18:38:14
Originally by: Fistme
Originally by: Electric Universe
NightmareX only have 1 account.
So what, because i'm a friend of him and have almost the same posting style as him doesn't mean i'm his alt, at all.
This is just getting way ridicoulus. Because you accuse me of being NightmareX, when i'm not, i'm gonna start to report peoples here that accuse me for being someone that isn't me.
Comedy Gold
What's so comedy gold about it?. Only because i have a posting style that is similar to NightmareX?.
It still doesn't mean i'm NightmareX at all.
NightmareX still only have 1 account, and both of his characters that is his main character and alt is on the same account. So he can't post here.
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Childstar
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Posted - 2009.03.17 18:39:00 -
[735]
Originally by: Fistme
Originally by: Electric Universe
NightmareX only have 1 account.
So what, because i'm a friend of him and have almost the same posting style as him doesn't mean i'm his alt, at all.
This is just getting way ridicoulus. Because you accuse me of being NightmareX, when i'm not, i'm gonna start to report peoples here that accuse me for being someone that isn't me.
Comedy Gold
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Trader20
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Posted - 2009.03.17 18:42:00 -
[736]
This thread is getting a little off topic so....if you were to buff blasters would you
A. Increase range (either optimal or falloff)
B. Increase Damage (or add/change damage type)
C. Decrease cap usage (to leave more cap for the mwd)
D. Increase tracking
E. Other
Please pick an option and how this would help Blasters without being op. If you don't think blasters should be buffed then plz state why. TY for ur participation.
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Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
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Posted - 2009.03.17 18:43:00 -
[737]
Yeah, say whatever you want, but it's not going to change me into being NightmareX only because of my writing style.
How stupid does some peoples get here?.
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Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
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Posted - 2009.03.17 18:45:00 -
[738]
Originally by: Trader20
This thread is getting a little off topic so....if you were to buff blasters would you
A. Increase range (either optimal or falloff)
B. Increase Damage (or add/change damage type)
C. Decrease cap usage (to leave more cap for the mwd)
D. Increase tracking
E. Other
Please pick an option and how this would help Blasters without being op. If you don't think blasters should be buffed then plz state why. TY for ur participation.
In this case i choose E. other.
Simply because Blasters it self is good enough. It's the t2 ammos that need to be fixed for Blasters and eventually Autocannons.
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Childstar
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Posted - 2009.03.17 18:50:00 -
[739]
Originally by: Trader20
This thread is getting a little off topic so....if you were to buff blasters would you
A. Increase range (either optimal or falloff)
B. Increase Damage (or add/change damage type)
C. Decrease cap usage (to leave more cap for the mwd)
D. Increase tracking
E. Other
Please pick an option and how this would help Blasters without being op. If you don't think blasters should be buffed then plz state why. TY for ur participation.
B.
Originally by: Electric Universe
Yeah, say whatever you want, but it's not going to change me into being NightmareX only because of my writing style.
How stupid does some peoples get here?.
Not stupid enough to believe you.
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maralt
Minmatar
The seers of truth
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Posted - 2009.03.17 18:51:00 -
[740]
Originally by: Trader20
This thread is getting a little off topic so....if you were to buff blasters would you
A. Increase range (either optimal or falloff)
B. Increase Damage (or add/change damage type)
C. Decrease cap usage (to leave more cap for the mwd)
D. Increase tracking
E. Other
Please pick an option and how this would help Blasters without being op. If you don't think blasters should be buffed then plz state why. TY for ur participation.
B.
But not in its 4.5km optimal as it needs to do better damage between 10 and 20km.
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|
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Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
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Posted - 2009.03.17 18:55:00 -
[741]
Edited by: Electric Universe on 17/03/2009 18:56:16
Originally by: maralt
Originally by: Trader20
This thread is getting a little off topic so....if you were to buff blasters would you
A. Increase range (either optimal or falloff)
B. Increase Damage (or add/change damage type)
C. Decrease cap usage (to leave more cap for the mwd)
D. Increase tracking
E. Other
Please pick an option and how this would help Blasters without being op. If you don't think blasters should be buffed then plz state why. TY for ur participation.
as it needs to do better damage between 10 and 20km.
No Because Blasters are very close range weapon, that's a bad idea.
Fix the T2 ammo instead maybe?. So Null does better damage at those ranges.
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The Djego
Minmatar
merovinger inc
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Posted - 2009.03.17 19:01:00 -
[742]
Originally by: Trader20
This thread is getting a little off topic so....if you were to buff blasters would you
A. Increase range (either optimal or falloff)
B. Increase Damage (or add/change damage type)
C. Decrease cap usage (to leave more cap for the mwd)
D. Increase tracking
E. Other
Please pick an option and how this would help Blasters without being op. If you don't think blasters should be buffed then plz state why. TY for ur participation.
Mostly a tweak on Web strenght in general or specific for Blaster ships, fixes 3 in one -> ability to hold a target in place and control range better, abiltiy to hit the target with less Tracking Issuse, limited to Web Range(what isn¦t the case with Tracking). Basicly give Blaster ships back a advantage within Web Range.
Also B, to some amount(10-15%).
----
Nerf Tank - Boost Gank!
Originally by: Amantus
Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
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maralt
Minmatar
The seers of truth
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Posted - 2009.03.17 19:02:00 -
[743]
Edited by: maralt on 17/03/2009 19:05:21
Originally by: Electric Universe
No Because Blasters are mainly very close range weapon, so that's a bad idea to change the Blasters to do that.
Fix the T2 ammo instead maybe?. Make Null do better damage at those ranges. Isn't that a better idea?.
It hardly matters if you change the ammo or the gun to achieve the effect its the end result that matters.
Option B did not specify either gun or ammo and nor did i and you have mentioned ammo changes before although i did not think they were much help.
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Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
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Posted - 2009.03.17 19:06:00 -
[744]
Originally by: maralt
Edited by: maralt on 17/03/2009 19:03:10
Originally by: Electric Universe
No Because Blasters are mainly very close range weapon, so that's a bad idea to change the Blasters to do that.
Fix the T2 ammo instead maybe?. Make Null do better damage at those ranges. Isn't that a better idea?.
It hardly matters if you change the ammo or the gun to achieve the effect its the end result that matters.
Option B did not specify either gun or ammo and nor did i and you have mentioned ammo changes before.
Well because the Null ammo is the range ammo Blasters have, then why not fix the ammo instead so they do better damage from 10 to 20 km?.
For me, it's sounds much easier to just change one ammo types instead of messing with Blasters, and then you have to mess with Autocannons again and maybe Torps again and there again, probably mess up somethings while doing that. Also most likely do something that makes something very unbalanced and underpowered.
SO yeh, the easiest way is to just change the Null ammo.
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Ephemeron
North Eastern Swat
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.03.17 19:10:00 -
[745]
Originally by: Electric Universe
Well because the Null ammo is the range ammo Blasters have, then why not fix the ammo instead so they do better damage from 10 to 20 km?.
That is the type of balancing action we should avoid. It goes against the main role of blasters - which should be clearly defined as the best short range weapon, with poor medium-long range performance.
Good damage at 10-20 km is the role of lasers. Lasers deserve to be different, deserve to have an edge.
Each weapon should be really good at something, each weapon should have an edge. And they all should be balanced out by weaknesses in other areas.
Balancing things out by making everything more of the same makes a very boring game!
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Lord Eremet
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Posted - 2009.03.17 19:11:00 -
[746]
Originally by: Electric Universe
This is just getting way ridicoulus. Because you accuse me of being NightmareX, when i'm not, i'm gonna start to report peoples here that accuse me for being someone that isn't me.
Like you and bean did nothing but report/flame each other all the time in the previous pages.
Give it a rest dude you fooling no one.
I'm dropping this now, but please continue.
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Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
|
Posted - 2009.03.17 19:15:00 -
[747]
Edited by: Electric Universe on 17/03/2009 19:15:08
Originally by: Lord Eremet
Originally by: Electric Universe
This is just getting way ridicoulus. Because you accuse me of being NightmareX, when i'm not, i'm gonna start to report peoples here that accuse me for being someone that isn't me.
Like you and bean did nothing but report/flame each other all the time in the previous pages.
Give it a rest dude you fooling no one.
I'm dropping this now, but please continue.
Anyone is alowed to report someone when they are accusing peoples for being something they don't are.
Oh noes, only because NightmareX and bean was reporting each others, does that mean i'm one of them only because i want to report someone for lying about who i'am?.
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Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
|
Posted - 2009.03.17 19:21:00 -
[748]
Edited by: Electric Universe on 17/03/2009 19:24:32
Originally by: Ephemeron
Originally by: Electric Universe
Well because the Null ammo is the range ammo Blasters have, then why not fix the ammo instead so they do better damage from 10 to 20 km?.
That is the type of balancing action we should avoid. It goes against the main role of blasters - which should be clearly defined as the best short range weapon, with poor medium-long range performance.
Good damage at 10-20 km is the role of lasers. Lasers deserve to be different, deserve to have an edge.
Each weapon should be really good at something, each weapon should have an edge. And they all should be balanced out by weaknesses in other areas.
Balancing things out by making everything more of the same makes a very boring game!
Yeah, your absolutely right about that.
I'm just giving examples on what we can do to the whiners that can't use the weapons right after what they are designed to do. So we can get them to shut the hell up with the whining all day long.
Anyways, the ONLY way we can change something to make the Blasters to do more damages at those ranges is to boost the Null ammo a bit. No other ways.
But if that's a bad idea to do, then it's a bad idea to do.
But yeah, Blasters is ONLY close range weapons. No matter how good Lasers are at med ranges.
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maralt
Minmatar
The seers of truth
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Posted - 2009.03.17 19:26:00 -
[749]
Edited by: maralt on 17/03/2009 19:34:31
Originally by: Ephemeron
Originally by: Electric Universe
Well because the Null ammo is the range ammo Blasters have, then why not fix the ammo instead so they do better damage from 10 to 20 km?.
That is the type of balancing action we should avoid. It goes against the main role of blasters - which should be clearly defined as the best short range weapon, with poor medium-long range performance.
Good damage at 10-20 km is the role of lasers. Lasers deserve to be different, deserve to have an edge.
Each weapon should be really good at something, each weapon should have an edge. And they all should be balanced out by weaknesses in other areas.
Balancing things out by making everything more of the same makes a very boring game!
Its about the definition of short and mid ranges.
0-45km is the max optimal area that all close range weapon systems operate within, some like lasers can use all of it and some like blasters use only a little.
As such we can divide that into 0-15km as short, 15-30 as mid and 30-45 as long for close range weapon systems.
Now lasers do 730 raw gun dps at 45km while blasters do 0 but at 4.5km lasers do over 900 raw gun dps that is only 30% less than that of blasters (even after omni resist are taken into account) and that 30% advantage decreases from 4.5km steadily out to 10km.
I do not see a problem with blasters out damaging lasers or matching lasers up to 20km after all 0-15km can easily be considered "close" when you compare it to the 45km + optimal available.
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Childstar
|
Posted - 2009.03.17 19:31:00 -
[750]
Edited by: Childstar on 17/03/2009 19:32:51
Originally by: Electric Universe
Edited by: Electric Universe on 17/03/2009 19:17:01
Originally by: Lord Eremet
Originally by: Electric Universe
This is just getting way ridicoulus. Because you accuse me of being NightmareX, when i'm not, i'm gonna start to report peoples here that accuse me for being someone that isn't me.
Like you and bean did nothing but report/flame each other all the time in the previous pages.
Give it a rest dude you fooling no one.
I'm dropping this now, but please continue.
Anyone is allowed to report someone when they are accusing peoples for being something they don't are.
Oh noes, only because NightmareX and bean was reporting each others, does that mean i'm one of them only because i want to report someone for lying about who i'am?.
Seeing as you are asking..........i say that in my opinion its totally obvious you are nightmareX, and you are the only person who believes you are kidding anybody.
And it is not us who are lying about who you are(irony much), we are just giving our opinions about something totally obvious.
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Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
|
Posted - 2009.03.17 19:34:00 -
[751]
Edited by: Electric Universe on 17/03/2009 19:35:52
Originally by: Childstar
Edited by: Childstar on 17/03/2009 19:32:51
Originally by: Electric Universe
Edited by: Electric Universe on 17/03/2009 19:17:01
Originally by: Lord Eremet
Originally by: Electric Universe
This is just getting way ridicoulus. Because you accuse me of being NightmareX, when i'm not, i'm gonna start to report peoples here that accuse me for being someone that isn't me.
Like you and bean did nothing but report/flame each other all the time in the previous pages.
Give it a rest dude you fooling no one.
I'm dropping this now, but please continue.
Anyone is allowed to report someone when they are accusing peoples for being something they don't are.
Oh noes, only because NightmareX and bean was reporting each others, does that mean i'm one of them only because i want to report someone for lying about who i'am?.
Seeing as you are asking..........i say that in my opinion its totally obvious you are nightmareX, and you are the only person who believes you are kidding anybody.
And it is not us who are lying about who you are(irony much), we are just giving our opinions about something totally obvious.
Do you want to get reported by doing this?.
I'm very serious about this, if you really want to get reported to just see that i don't have ANYTHING to do with NightmareX, then eat the forum warning.
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Trader20
|
Posted - 2009.03.17 19:37:00 -
[752]
Edited by: Trader20 on 17/03/2009 19:38:37
So the 1.25x multiplier for optimal and falloff on null ammo isn't enough? I wouldn't recommend increasing the 1.25x on optimal because this would allow blasters to hit to about 13op+16fo which is almost in pulse territory. Blasters shouldn't have any where near the same optimal as pulses for the obvious dps advantage blasters have.
Although an increase of .25 in falloff would have null hitting out to 11op+19.5fo and that falloff is enough to hit any target within pvp range. Null in falloff would be far less dps then pulses in optimal but would still give the blaster pilot the ability to hit the target while mwd in to deal real blaster damage.
(All calculation were taken from lrge neutron blasters (9op+13fo) on unbonused ships)
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Childstar
|
Posted - 2009.03.17 19:40:00 -
[753]
Edited by: Childstar on 17/03/2009 19:40:39
Originally by: Electric Universe
Do you want to get reported by doing this?.
I'm serious about this, if you really want to get reported to just see that i don't have ANYTHING to do with NightmareX, then eat the forum warning.
If you do not want ppl to answer a question do not ask a question.
Originally by: Electric Universe
Oh noes, only because NightmareX and bean was reporting each others, does that mean i'm one of them only because i want to report someone for lying about who i'am?.
I honestly doubt the moderators are going to warn or ban anybody for answering a question you yourself asked.
Also everybody is entitled to a opinion.
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Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
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Posted - 2009.03.17 19:42:00 -
[754]
Originally by: Childstar
Edited by: Childstar on 17/03/2009 19:40:39
Originally by: Electric Universe
Do you want to get reported by doing this?.
I'm serious about this, if you really want to get reported to just see that i don't have ANYTHING to do with NightmareX, then eat the forum warning.
If you do not want ppl to answer a question do not ask a question.
Originally by: Electric Universe
Oh noes, only because NightmareX and bean was reporting each others, does that mean i'm one of them only because i want to report someone for lying about who i'am?.
I honestly doubt the moderators are going to warn or ban anybody for answering a question you yourself asked.
Also everybody is entitled to a opinion.
This is not about a question, it's all about accusing me for being NightmareX.
Asking a question and accusing someone is 2 different things bud.
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Childstar
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Posted - 2009.03.17 19:52:00 -
[755]
Edited by: Childstar on 17/03/2009 19:54:33
Originally by: Electric Universe
Asking a question and accusing someone is 2 different things bud.
You asked this question
Originally by: Electric Universe
does that mean i'm one of them only because i want to report someone for lying about who i'am?.
Our answer is yes we all think it is totally obvious you are nightmareX.
Now if you want others to answer you ask again, or you can move on and get back on topic its up to you but you cannot change my or others opinions with threats.
Any way im done with this as in my opinion two ppl have been banned for arguing off topic.
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Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
|
Posted - 2009.03.17 19:57:00 -
[756]
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: Electric Universe
Asking a question and accusing someone is 2 different things bud.
You asked this question
Originally by: Electric Universe
does that mean i'm one of them only because i want to report someone for lying about who i'am?.
Our answer is yes we all think it is totally obvious you are nightmareX.
Now if you want others to answer you ask again, or you can move on and get back on topic its up to you but you cannot change my or other opinion with threats.
Exactly, you accuse me for being NightmareX.
And accusing me to be him only because of the reporting NightmareX and bean did, is stupid.
Oh noes, another one in this topic is reporting someone, bawwww, that must be NightmareX.
Instead of going off topic by lying, then lets stay on topic.
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Mag's
the united
Negative Ten.
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Posted - 2009.03.17 19:58:00 -
[757]
I also believe you to be NightmareX, being as you asked.
Another of your posting give-aways, is the question mark followed by the full stop. ?.
Regards
Mag's |
maralt
Minmatar
The seers of truth
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Posted - 2009.03.17 20:03:00 -
[758]
Originally by: Trader20
So the 1.25x multiplier for optimal and falloff on null ammo isn't enough? I wouldn't recommend increasing the 1.25x on optimal because this would allow blasters to hit to about 13op+16fo which is almost in pulse territory. Blasters shouldn't have any where near the same optimal as pulses for the obvious dps advantage blasters have.
Although an increase of .25 in falloff would have null hitting out to 11op+19.5fo and that falloff is enough to hit any target within pvp range. Null in falloff would be far less dps then pulses in optimal but would still give the blaster pilot the ability to hit the target while mwd in to deal real blaster damage.
(All calculation were taken from lrge neutron blasters (9op+13fo) on unbonused ships)
A interesting idea but im having difficulty working out the raw dmg increase at those ranges.
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Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
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Posted - 2009.03.17 20:03:00 -
[759]
Edited by: Electric Universe on 17/03/2009 20:05:13
Originally by: Mag's
I also believe you to be NightmareX, being as you asked.
Another of your posting give-aways, is the question mark followed by the full stop. ?.
Believe what you want.
I still believe this is a topic about Blasters and other weapon systems or ships and not about NightmareX.
Right?.
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GTC seller72
|
Posted - 2009.03.17 20:07:00 -
[760]
Edited by: GTC seller72 on 17/03/2009 20:11:30
Originally by: Mag's
I also believe you to be NightmareX, being as you asked.
Another of your posting give-aways, is the question mark followed by the full stop. ?.
Well seeing as he asked....
The one line sentence replies is a big one.
Its very telling i think.
Neither electric or nightmare use paragraphs much.
A bit like im doing now.
And as we should be on topic i think he is wrong on both toons as blasters need a little help.
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Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
|
Posted - 2009.03.17 20:11:00 -
[761]
Edited by: Electric Universe on 17/03/2009 20:15:53
Originally by: GTC seller72
Edited by: GTC seller72 on 17/03/2009 20:11:30
Originally by: Mag's
I also believe you to be NightmareX, being as you asked.
Another of your posting give-aways, is the question mark followed by the full stop. ?.
Well seeing as he asked....
The one line sentence replies is a big one.
Its very telling i think.
Neither electric or nightmare use paragraphs much.
A bit like im doing now.
And as we should be on topic i think he is wrong on both toons as blasters need a little help.
Says another alt. Yeah just use as many alts you can to say that, so you don't risk to get any forum warnings with your main.
And no, Blasters still don't need ANY help now. They are perfectly fine at what they are designed to do.
How many noobs do we have to tell that before they get it into they brains?.
Blasters are extremely good at what they are meant and designed for.
Nothing more to say about that.
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Hepren D'narr
Gallente
Downfall inc.
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Posted - 2009.03.17 20:28:00 -
[762]
Alright, I think everybody has heard your opinion already. Why dont we try to talk about other peoples opinions for a while? Quite a lot thinks / agrees blasters really need a boost, you know?
P.S. I too think you're NightmareX's alt.
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Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
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Posted - 2009.03.17 20:37:00 -
[763]
Edited by: Electric Universe on 17/03/2009 20:36:52
Originally by: Hepren D'narr
Alright, I think everybody has heard your opinion already. Why dont we try to talk about other peoples opinions for a while? Quite a lot thinks / agrees blasters really need a boost, you know?
But why do they think that they need boost?.
Is it because they fail at using the weapons right?
Or is it because they use the weapons right?.
I even know the answer here even before asking you here.
Learn to use the weapons right, and you will see that Blasters doesn't need a boost at all.
Only low skilled players with no experience in flying ships with Blasters want this silly boost. And are whining because they have to use their brains a bit.
Oh noes, it's the end of the world, they have to use their brains a bit.
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Childstar
|
Posted - 2009.03.17 20:42:00 -
[764]
Originally by: Electric Universe
But why do they think that they need boost?.
You were the one with the idea for the null buff...
Originally by: Electric Universe
Oh noes, it's the end of the world, they have to use their brains a bit.
Skills can be learned, piloting can be taught and brains can be used by anybody but that is no reason for blaster battleships to stay so poor at gang fighting.
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Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
|
Posted - 2009.03.17 20:47:00 -
[765]
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: Electric Universe
But why do they think that they need boost?.
You were the one with the idea for the null buff...
Originally by: Electric Universe
Oh noes, it's the end of the world, they have to use their brains a bit.
Skills can be learned, piloting can be taught and brains can be used by anybody but that is no reason for blaster battleships to stay so poor at gang fighting.
Yeah, Null is not Blasters dude.
The Null ammo and the Blasters is 2 different things.
Didn't you know that?. If not, ok then you learned something new today.
Hahah, is the thing that Blasters is poor a new meme you guys have found up or?.
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Childstar
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Posted - 2009.03.17 20:54:00 -
[766]
Edited by: Childstar on 17/03/2009 20:55:35
Originally by: Electric Universe
Yeah, Null is not Blasters dude.
The Null ammo and the Blasters is 2 different things.
Didn't you know that?. If not, ok then you learned something new today.
Hahah, is the thing that Blasters is poor a new meme you guys have found up or?.
I can now see why you got banned and why people dislike you so much.
For those who are interested:-
How blasters are buffed either by a adjustment to ammo or their base statistics can be easily worked out after it is figured out by how much.
And as i said, does anybody else think that the race with the best available range tank for short range weapons also has the best available EHP for the fit..40% or so more than the megathron?.
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Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
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Posted - 2009.03.17 20:55:00 -
[767]
Edited by: Electric Universe on 17/03/2009 21:04:32
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: Electric Universe
Yeah, Null is not Blasters dude.
The Null ammo and the Blasters is 2 different things.
Didn't you know that?. If not, ok then you learned something new today.
Hahah, is the thing that Blasters is poor a new meme you guys have found up or?.
I can now see why you got banned and why people dislike you so much.
I got banned?, i'm still posting here dude.
I don't know what the hell you guys are talking about.
And so you know. NightmareX didn't got banned because he's not liked here, he got banned like bean did because of trolling and *****ing at each others, and for going off topic after several warnings from CCP or the forum mods.
Originally by: Childstar
And as i said, does anybody else think that the race with the best available range tank for short range weapons also has the best available EHP for the fit..40% or so more than the megathron?.
The 37% more EHP an Abaddon have because of the resist bonus is counted up by the high resist a Megathron have to EM and Thermal and to the 30+% more DPS a Blaster Mega or a Blaster Hyperion does over an Abaddon at 5 km.
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Childstar
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Posted - 2009.03.17 21:17:00 -
[768]
Edited by: Childstar on 17/03/2009 21:19:48
Originally by: Electric Universe
And after what i know about NightmareX, he simply don't care what some guys in the internet thinks about him. He doesn't care and does what suits him best.
Yea yea envied by men loved by women, a former steet fighting god and member of a elite special forces unit at the age of 7, who just happens to play internet space ships....i have heard it all before.
Originally by: Electric Universe
The 37% more EHP an Abaddon have because of the resist bonus is counted up by the high resist a Megathron have to EM and Thermal and to the 30+% more DPS a Blaster Mega or a Blaster Hyperion does over an Abaddon at 5 km.
So if having 30% less dps at 4.5km justifies having 37%-40% more ehp what justifies the 1000% more optimal 900% of it doing more damage than blasters and in some parts of that 900% 700+ dps more?.
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Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
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Posted - 2009.03.17 21:24:00 -
[769]
Edited by: Electric Universe on 17/03/2009 21:26:19
Originally by: Childstar
Edited by: Childstar on 17/03/2009 21:19:48
Originally by: Electric Universe
And after what i know about NightmareX, he simply don't care what some guys in the internet thinks about him. He doesn't care and does what suits him best.
Yea yea envied by men loved by women, a former steet fighting god and member of a elite special forces unit at the age of 7, who just happens to play internet space ships....i have heard it all before.
Originally by: Electric Universe
The 37% more EHP an Abaddon have because of the resist bonus is counted up by the high resist a Megathron have to EM and Thermal and to the 30+% more DPS a Blaster Mega or a Blaster Hyperion does over an Abaddon at 5 km.
So if having 30% less dps at 4.5km justifies having 37%-40% more ehp what justifies the 1000% more optimal 900% of it doing more damage than blasters and in some parts of that 900% 700+ dps more?.
The optimal thing about Blasters and lasers have been discussed enough.
Blasters is not a med range weapon. And that does mean Lasers will do way more DPS than Blasters are doing at med range.
Blasters are still close range weapon though. Blasters will never be med range weapon. If you want to use med ranged weapons, then use Lasers.
If you want to pwn (do most DPS) in close range with BS'es, then use Blaster BS'es.
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Childstar
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Posted - 2009.03.17 21:35:00 -
[770]
Originally by: Electric Universe
Originally by: Childstar
So if having 30% less dps at 4.5km justifies having 37%-40% more ehp what justifies the 1000% more optimal 900% of it doing more damage than blasters and in some parts of that 900% 700+ dps more?.
The optimal thing about Blasters and lasers have been discussed enough.
Blasters is not a med range weapon. And that does mean Lasers will do way more DPS than Blasters are doing at med range.
Blasters are still close range weapon though. Blasters will never be med range weapon. If you want to use med ranged weapons, then use Lasers.
If you want to pwn (do most DPS) in close range with BS'es, then use Blaster BS'es.
So in other words you do not have any justification at all apart from mumbling about "roles"?.
I do not think that med range is 15km and below i think that under 15km is close range.
I also think that saying blasters should suck in the mid range because they are close range weapons is ok depending on the definition of "mid" (+15-20km is where i think "mid" range starts).
But then when lasers are called "mid range" weapons and do over 900 raw dps in close range i think is total hippocracy cos if blasters should suck in "mid" range then laser should suck in "close" range.
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Ephemeron
North Eastern Swat
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.03.17 21:38:00 -
[771]
Quote:
If you want to pwn (do most DPS) in close range with BS'es, then use Blaster BS'es.
As it stands now, with all the possible combination of different modules - specially damage mods, the damage advantage of blasters is too small to matter.
That's what the most reasonable people argue about.
No reasonable person would ask for any radical changes, no need to redesign the game (even tho CCP proved they are more than willing to be unreasonable with nanonerf)
10% to damage boost, with 5-10% nerf to some other stat (if the extra damage is proved to be unbalanced), is all that's needed to emphasize blaster role a little better.
It's really a small change - a surgical touch with a scalpel, not a nerf bat, or the sledgehammer CCP used in the past. God forbid we have any more balance changes done with those tools
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Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
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Posted - 2009.03.17 21:41:00 -
[772]
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: Electric Universe
Originally by: Childstar
So if having 30% less dps at 4.5km justifies having 37%-40% more ehp what justifies the 1000% more optimal 900% of it doing more damage than blasters and in some parts of that 900% 700+ dps more?.
The optimal thing about Blasters and lasers have been discussed enough.
Blasters is not a med range weapon. And that does mean Lasers will do way more DPS than Blasters are doing at med range.
Blasters are still close range weapon though. Blasters will never be med range weapon. If you want to use med ranged weapons, then use Lasers.
If you want to pwn (do most DPS) in close range with BS'es, then use Blaster BS'es.
So in other words you do not have any justification at all apart from mumbling about "roles"?.
I do not think that med range is 15km and below i think that under 15km is close range.
I also think that saying blasters should suck in the mid range because they are close range weapons is ok depending on the definition of "mid" (+15-20km is where i think "mid" range starts).
But then when lasers are called "mid range" weapons and do over 900 raw dps in close range i think is total hippocracy cos if blasters should suck in "mid" range then laser should suck in "close" range.
Yes, Blasters role is to be the weapon that do serious damage (most DPS) up to 5 km. End of story there.
Lasers have the role to do more damage at med ranges because Laser BS'es is not popular to fit MWD's, specially in low sec. In 0.0 space they are pretty much forced to use MWD as long they don't want to insta die in a bubble.
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Trader20
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Posted - 2009.03.17 22:02:00 -
[773]
Originally by: Bozwel
You say you aren't Nightmare, but now you're bringing up 1v1 Megathron versus Tempest?
Lol srry electric uni, thats kinda odd that you brought the tempest into this discussion, was it an ecm fit tempest?
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Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
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Posted - 2009.03.17 22:03:00 -
[774]
Edited by: Electric Universe on 17/03/2009 22:06:55
Originally by: Trader20
The offset damage is balanced by the tempest dealing damage to the mega's weakest resist (exp).
Yeah that's right.
But still, the resist on a Tempest that use an Omni tank doesn't have so high resists to Kinetic. So it will still melt like uber fast to a Mega if it gets any damage boosts.
Originally by: Trader20
Originally by: Bozwel
You say you aren't Nightmare, but now you're bringing up 1v1 Megathron versus Tempest?
Lol srry electric uni, thats kinda odd that you brought the tempest into this discussion, was it an ecm fit tempest?
Yeah, it's it quite funny that i have never taken an ECM Tempest into a 1 vs 1 comparsion to a Mega or other ships hrre?. Doesn't it rings a bell here?.
It clearly shows i'm not NightmareX.
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Childstar
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Posted - 2009.03.17 22:21:00 -
[775]
Edited by: Childstar on 17/03/2009 22:25:00
Originally by: Electric Universe
Yeah, it's it quite funny that i have never taken an ECM Tempest into a 1 vs 1 comparsion to a Mega or other ships here?. Doesn't it rings a bell here?.
It clearly shows i'm not NightmareX.
It's just NightmareX that talks about that because he is more lucky with the ECM on his Tempest and then find it usefull in small scale PVP.
Ok you need to understand.
You post the same spelling mistakes EXACTLY the same way.
You post in sentences EXACTLY the same way.
You have the EXACT same arguments.
You post them EXACTLY the same way.
You argue the EXACT same way.
You are a member of a corp that has never got a single kill or loss.
You have never done any pvp or got a single kill or loss.
You never posted on this topic before nightmareX got banned.
So you are either nightmareX and lying or you are a clone that has had knowledge of his identity wiped but his personality kept intact. And all of us think its the former of those choices.
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Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
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Posted - 2009.03.17 22:26:00 -
[776]
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: Electric Universe
Yeah, it's it quite funny that i have never taken an ECM Tempest into a 1 vs 1 comparsion to a Mega or other ships here?. Doesn't it rings a bell here?.
It clearly shows i'm not NightmareX.
It's just NightmareX that talks about that because he is more lucky with the ECM on his Tempest and then find it usefull in small scale PVP.
Ok you need to understand.
You post the same spelling mistakes EXACTLY the same way.
You post in sentences EXACTLY the same way.
You have the EXACT same arguments.
You post them EXACTLY the same way.
You argue the EXACT same way.
You are a member of a corp that has never got a single kill or loss.
You have never done any pvp or got a single kill or loss.
So you are either nightmareX and lying or you are a clone that has had knowledge of his identity wiped but his personality kept intact. And all of us think its the former of those choices.
So what?, i'm still not NightmareX whatever you say.
NightmareX lives in +lesund in Norway, while i live in Oslo. He can't just live in Oslo when he lives in +lesund.
Here, take a look here: LINK. Then go to Home & Contact and see his adress and that he lives in +lesund or just outside of the actually +lesund city. Yes this is NightmareX's web page.
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Valadeya uthanaras
Corp 1 Allstars
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Posted - 2009.03.17 22:29:00 -
[777]
my 0.02 iskies:
I will agree to some extent that blaster need some buff but to all people saying Zomg nerf laser you need to realize:
They have considerably less tracking than blaster , and its mainly because amarrian pilot found a "manual piloting" way of keeping the opponent transversal low that we can acheive good DPS at close range. While most blaster pilot I fought over the year just ..... close in and and activate guns, when its quite easy to point in a direction and see him follow you with nill transversal...
They use "Considerably" more capacitor than blaster ,and you need close to perfect skill with the ship bonus , that take a bonus slot of almost every amarr ship , to acheive decent capacitor usage
And finally laser use considerably more powergrid than any other weapon system ( can I tell you how insanely hard it is to fit a geddon with a set of megapulse?),and are stuck with EM/THERM damage type without a really big drone bay to help....with damage type
These factor justify the "edge" in range of the Laser, why most people complain about know is just a matter of skillpoint investment .... before the "speed nerf main patch" a pilot willing to play amarr would invest 2-3 years to fully train all the skill required to be competitive with laser .
Easy proof is that the "amarr population" was the lowest in between 2005(stacking nerf patch) to end 2008(speed nerf patch), and most amarr pilot are older than 4 years ingame with crazy skill investement in gunnery , drone , command. I still remember that in those year, the main saying was , dont start amarr , its eve on Hell mode.
Now comming back to blaster:
I TOTALLY AGREE that they should be boosted and here what I think would do best:
10% rate of fire increase across the board of all blaster ( its a 12.5% bonus to damage with added capacitor usage to compensate )
10-15% increase in optimal across the board of all blaster (so instead of the 4500km range , its more around 5km that you start doing insane pew pew)
15-25% decrease in sginature of blaster (hit harder on smaller ship than other weaponry)
10-25% increase in tracking , so that blaster pilot (even BS) understand they need to orbit the target no just stay on top of it....)
My opinion is my own , but this should help , and for even sake stop comparing with laser , it like comparing a shotgun with a revolver ....
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mishkof
Caldari
Dirty Denizens
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Posted - 2009.03.17 22:34:00 -
[778]
Train Lazorz
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Childstar
|
Posted - 2009.03.17 22:34:00 -
[779]
Originally by: Electric Universe
So what?, i'm still not NightmareX whatever you say.
NightmareX lives in +lesund in Norway, while i live in Oslo. He can't just live in Oslo when he lives in +lesund.
Here, take a look here: LINK. Then go to Home & Contact and see his adress and that he lives in +lesund or just outside of the actually +lesund city. Yes this is NightmareX's web page.
Oh that reminds me you also link stuff the EXACT same way.
And started posting on here right after he got banned.
And mainly a poster as aggressive as him would not sit by and watch us call you him and not get a buddy or message on here some how.
Plus who says you live in oslo, you who we think is a lying in the first place, you could even be using a buddies account to post while you banned for all we know...
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Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
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Posted - 2009.03.17 22:36:00 -
[780]
Originally by: Valadeya uthanaras
Now comming back to blaster:
I TOTALLY AGREE that they should be boosted and here what I think would do best:
10% rate of fire increase across the board of all blaster ( its a 12.5% bonus to damage with added capacitor usage to compensate )
10-15% increase in optimal across the board of all blaster (so instead of the 4500km range , its more around 5km that you start doing insane pew pew)
15-25% decrease in sginature of blaster (hit harder on smaller ship than other weaponry)
10-25% increase in tracking , so that blaster pilot (even BS) understand they need to orbit the target no just stay on top of it....)
My opinion is my own , but this should help , and for even sake stop comparing with laser , it like comparing a shotgun with a revolver ....
Not to bust your bubble, but giving Blasters all of that will make combat in EVE seriously unbalanced.
I will not tell anything more about that, because everybosy should know that doing this is a very very stupid idea.
The best idea so far is to give the Null ammo to Blasters a buff. But not sure about that either now, because Blasters role is to be very close range ONLY. It's there where they are good.
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Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
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Posted - 2009.03.17 22:38:00 -
[781]
Edited by: Electric Universe on 17/03/2009 22:44:22
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: Electric Universe
So what?, i'm still not NightmareX whatever you say.
NightmareX lives in +lesund in Norway, while i live in Oslo. He can't just live in Oslo when he lives in +lesund.
Here, take a look here: LINK. Then go to Home & Contact and see his adress and that he lives in +lesund or just outside of the actually +lesund city. Yes this is NightmareX's web page.
Oh that reminds me you also link stuff the EXACT same way.
And started posting on here right after he got banned.
And mainly a poster as aggressive as him would not sit by and watch us call you him and not get a buddy or message on here some how.
Plus who says you live in oslo, you who we think is a lying in the first place, you could even be using a buddies account to post while you banned for all we know...
Any more poor excuses to come with?.
I think it's just better to ignore all of the clueless alts here in this topic.
Congrats for taking this topic even further off topic.
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Childstar
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Posted - 2009.03.17 22:40:00 -
[782]
Originally by: Electric Universe
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: Electric Universe
So what?, i'm still not NightmareX whatever you say.
NightmareX lives in +lesund in Norway, while i live in Oslo. He can't just live in Oslo when he lives in +lesund.
Here, take a look here: LINK. Then go to Home & Contact and see his adress and that he lives in +lesund or just outside of the actually +lesund city. Yes this is NightmareX's web page.
Oh that reminds me you also link stuff the EXACT same way.
And started posting on here right after he got banned.
And mainly a poster as aggressive as him would not sit by and watch us call you him and not get a buddy or message on here some how.
Plus who says you live in oslo, you who we think is a lying in the first place, you could even be using a buddies account to post while you banned for all we know...
Any more poor excuses?.
Only good ones that none of us need anyway, certainly nothing as weak as "but im not him honest i live in oslo"...
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Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
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Posted - 2009.03.17 22:44:00 -
[783]
Edited by: Electric Universe on 17/03/2009 22:44:54
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: Electric Universe
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: Electric Universe
So what?, i'm still not NightmareX whatever you say.
NightmareX lives in +lesund in Norway, while i live in Oslo. He can't just live in Oslo when he lives in +lesund.
Here, take a look here: LINK. Then go to Home & Contact and see his adress and that he lives in +lesund or just outside of the actually +lesund city. Yes this is NightmareX's web page.
Oh that reminds me you also link stuff the EXACT same way.
And started posting on here right after he got banned.
And mainly a poster as aggressive as him would not sit by and watch us call you him and not get a buddy or message on here some how.
Plus who says you live in oslo, you who we think is a lying in the first place, you could even be using a buddies account to post while you banned for all we know...
Any more poor excuses?.
Only good ones that none of us need anyway, certainly nothing as weak as "but im not him honest i live in oslo"...
I live in Oslo, and do you have a problem with it?.
Anyways, i will not respond anymore to you. And remember to watch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jvk7faxsxkQ&fmt=18.
You can only do one thing and it's to take this topic off topic, so ktnxbye.
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Ephemeron
North Eastern Swat
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.03.17 22:45:00 -
[784]
Quote:
I will never stop to say the things about the 30+% DPS advantage Neutrons have to Pulses at 5 km. Simply because that is the true fact.
And it seems that many players in this topic forget to take that into consideration, and just ignore it.
It's not a fact, it's a statement. And whether it is true or false depends entirely on the things you don't mention: the specific setups of the ships involved.
For example, your statement is false if the target ship is an Ishtar.
At the very least, you have to accompany your statement with "if the target fits omni-tank and is not a Gallente or Caldari t2 ship and is not a shield tanker" - at least
But if your goal is to simply derail this thread as much as possible then you succeed pretty well. I'm not sure if the dev's would be tricked, tho my opinion of their judgment is pretty low right now.
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Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
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Posted - 2009.03.17 22:49:00 -
[785]
Edited by: Electric Universe on 17/03/2009 22:53:53
Originally by: Ephemeron
For example, your statement is false if the target ship is an Ishtar.
Yes, but an Isthar is not a Laser BS. HELLOOOOOOO.
And you said this to me: But if your goal is to simply derail this thread as much as possible then you succeed pretty well.
Congrats for doing that your self.
I do agree to some of your points about Blasters, but don't say things like that when you clearly are doing that your self now.
Now, can you please give me some details on why Blasters doesn't do 30+% more DPS than an Abaddon at 5 km?.
I really like to see you report about that.
I'm waaaaaaaaaiiiiiiting.
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Ephemeron
North Eastern Swat
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.03.17 23:01:00 -
[786]
First, you phrase your request improperly by asking to compare damage of a gun to damage of a ship
Damage of a gun depends on the following stats:
damage modifier, rate of fire, ammo base damage, skills, damage mods, implants
When comparing blasters and pulse lasers, we find that all of the damage influencing stats except actual damage modifier scale proportionally, therefore can be canceled out.
The difference between damage modifiers shows that neutron blasters do 16.7% more damage than mega pulse. Therefore, blasters are more powerful, but that is not being questioned. The question is - do blasters have big enough damage advantage to justify all the disadvantages and maintain their role as the most damaging short range weapon.
Simple, elegant argument that doesn't get obfuscated with 1000s of "what ifs" that are introduced by taking into account specific ships and modules. That doesn't require nearly as many assumptions as one has to make to accept your "30% more damage" statement.
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Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
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Posted - 2009.03.17 23:09:00 -
[787]
Edited by: Electric Universe on 17/03/2009 23:18:04
Originally by: Ephemeron
The difference between damage modifiers shows that neutron blasters do 16.7% more damage than mega pulse. Therefore, blasters are more powerful, but that is not being questioned. The question is - do blasters have big enough damage advantage to justify all the disadvantages and maintain their role as the most damaging short range weapon.
Well, every of the weapons have it's disadvantages, and you have to live with it. If you can't use the weapons right or after how they are designed to be used for, then you deserve to die in the most horrible way you can imagine in EVE.
And by the way, Autocannons have more disadvantages than Blasters does have anyways. So maybe we should think about Autocannons before we think about doing anything with Blasters?.
But as i see it, even when Autocannons / Tempest with AC's have more disadvantages. The Autocannons / Tempest with AC's can compete with the Megathron and it's Blasters because of the advantages the Autocannons have. So there is nothing to discuss there tbqh.
And it's the same with the rest of the weapons to, where the weapons have disadvantages, there does another weapon or weapons have an advantage over.
The only advantage Lasers have over Blasters is the range.
The advantage Laser ships have over shield tanked ships is that they tend to do more damages on shield because EM is the lowest resist to shield. At least on every cruisers, battlcruiser and battleships that use shield tank.
I can go on the list here for many many more lines here, but i'm not gonna do it. Because you all should know the advantages and disadvantages every ships have.
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Ephemeron
North Eastern Swat
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.03.17 23:30:00 -
[788]
It seems like you suffer from a case of "if it's not broken - don't fix it". Symptoms of which are the inability to comprehend small scale changes that don't specifically fix something that is broken, but instead are meant to adjust the style of the game.
I find it mildly amusing to observe this behavioral pattern in different people - devs included. People like that are prone to solve problems they perceive in big ways - the big nerf bats, complete rewrites of game design. Yet at same time ignoring many small things that work, but could be improved if adjusted ever so slightly.
I bet someone could make a PhD thesis out of this.
But back to the subject at hand - I don't believe that blasters are broken. And I believe that blasters are most damaging weapons in EVE. All the 3 short range guns can be used successfully in pvp. I have personal experience with all of them - in fact I'm flying an AC tempest right now and had many kills with it in last week.
What I'm trying to do is to nudge game balance every so slightly as to promote diversity of playing styles without breaking the overall game balance. Since the changes I want to see have so little impact on the game, it is very hard to convince people like you that they are needed. You are simply not refined enough to see something this subtle. You want to see something that is clearly broken, something extreme, that would no doubt push you into extreme measures - just like CCP did with nano ships.
This game needs some game designers who are able to fine tune things without resorting to heavy reconstruction instruments.
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maralt
Minmatar
The seers of truth
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Posted - 2009.03.17 23:36:00 -
[789]
The problem with blaster BS is that all they can do is 30% more DPS at 4.5km against certain types of tank.
That is it, and its not like they still match lasers or even do good DPS much above that range, or have a great tank to be able to take a pounding while they get into range and have to stay there to keep their dmg high, or a good bit of extra speed so they can get into range quicker, or even a awesome cap or a mwd bonus.
Nope all they get is a marginally greater dmg out put at a insignificantly small range and only against a certain kind of tank.
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Ephemeron
North Eastern Swat
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.03.17 23:38:00 -
[790]
Edited by: Ephemeron on 17/03/2009 23:41:29
in addition to my last post:
I think the people who are complaining about blasters are reacting to a "blaster role identity crisis". Even if they don't really realize and may actually think blasters are broken because of this feeling. What they subconsciously ask is: "why blasters?" The role is not clearly defined, the advantages are not significant enough to stand out and answer "this is why!"
At same time, people who argue balance thru sameness are afraid that something clearly stands out against the rest - they perceive there mere existence of difference as evidence of imbalance
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Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
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Posted - 2009.03.17 23:45:00 -
[791]
Originally by: maralt
The problem with blaster BS is that all they can do is 30% more DPS at 4.5km against certain types of tank.
That is it, and its not like they still match lasers or even do good DPS much above that range, or have a great tank to be able to take a pounding while they get into range and have to stay there to keep their dmg high, or a good bit of extra speed so they can get into range quicker, or even a awesome cap or a mwd bonus.
Nope all they get is a marginally greater dmg out put at a insignificantly small range and only against a certain kind of tank.
Yeah, as i said earlier, i'm all up for something that can make Blasters to hit targets a little faster.
But don't take me wrong though. I don't take an optimal or range bonus to Blasters in because i want Blasters BS'es to hit targets faster.
And yeah, the thing as you said here: Nope all they get is a marginally greater dmg out put at a insignificantly small range and only against a certain kind of tank.
That is true, and Blasters is made to do that, nothing more.
Blasters will do crazy damage to ANY ships that have low resists to Kinetic and Thermal. So there is no ways around that.
It's like that Lasers aren't dong any good damages to Omni tanked BS'es. But then do great against shield tanks, because shield tanked ships like cruisers, battlecruisers and BS'es have EM as the lowest resists.
Armor ships have EM as the highest resist before any armor hardeners or EANM's.
Anyways, i'm off for now. Gonna go to bed now.
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Mila Prestoc
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Posted - 2009.03.18 00:39:00 -
[792]
Thing is Eph, you talk about tweaks to make the weapons more diverse, but i've not heard any suggestions for "tweaks". What i've seen is things getting called broken and pretty big boosts.
I doubt anyone would say Blasters at frig size are weak (sure boost the taranis n co! lol). Cruisers are pretty cool to (thorax/vexor, brutix is like most tier 1 bcs). It just seems there's this one big ship called a Abaddon that everyones focusing on to rebalance large sized weapons.
For me it is still the ship hulls making things appear... skewed (being diplomatic here). EVE is a multiplayer game, more players, more gangs, bigger gangs, hence the trend in tanking goes more to passive tanking as damage taken is more often higher. The Abaddon is the top tier gang designed ship, the Hyperion is a solo/tiny gang designed ship more for when taking <2500 dps. Consider if the Megathron was the top tier with the higher base stats (such as HP), so passive tanking it doesn't ignore a bonus and its better design for gangs with its spare high for a RR. That would close the gap between Gallente and Amarr when in gangs.
-------------------------
Originally by: "Lord Violent"
EvE is slowly becoming a game for the stupid, catered to by devs as they lack ability to kill/survive anything.
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Goumindong
Amarr
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.03.18 03:23:00 -
[793]
Originally by: maralt
The brutix is not just cheaper its much better in every way and has enough mids to be useful, 3 mids on a cap dependent blaster ship is absurd.
What you're saying does not contradict my point.
Quote:
Yea in a BS gang larger than 1 laser are the better ships, in gangs of 1 the starting range of the fight and fit makes it debatable although in a lot of scenarios id give it to the blaster BS.
This is not true, the break point is much higher than that. Now you're simply lying.
Originally by: Ephemeron
The difference between damage modifiers shows that neutron blasters do 16.7% more damage than mega pulse. Therefore, blasters are more powerful, but that is not being questioned. The question is - do blasters have big enough damage advantage to justify all the disadvantages and maintain their role as the most damaging short range weapon.
This can only be considered by looking at the final stats of the ships in question. The ending answer is unquestionably yes when you understand and fly towards their role.
Or are you going to keep recommending megathrons?
Originally by: Mila Prestoc
That would close the gap between Gallente and Amarr when in gangs.
But without a gap, what would be the point in flying Amarr ships unless you also closed the gap by making amarr as suitable for solo/small gang as Gallente?
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Theron Gyrow
Gradient
Electus Matari
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Posted - 2009.03.18 07:56:00 -
[794]
Originally by: Goumindong
But without a gap, what would be the point in flying Amarr ships unless you also closed the gap by making amarr as suitable for solo/small gang as Gallente?
Uhh... Punisher, Crusader, Arbitrator, Curse, Sacrilege, Harbinger are at least equal to Gallente blasterships for soloing. I'd rate Abaddon about the same as any Gallente blaster BS for solo, too, although the rating would be "killmail waiting to happen".
And already for small gangs, Amarr >> Gallente. You have been shown that time and again, but you return back with the same arguments, same lies, not adjusted in any way; a broken record. You are tiresome.
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Gradient forum |
maralt
Minmatar
The seers of truth
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Posted - 2009.03.18 10:21:00 -
[795]
Edited by: maralt on 18/03/2009 10:23:45
Originally by: Goumindong
Quote:
Yea in a BS gang larger than 1 laser are the better ships, in gangs of 1 the starting range of the fight and fit makes it debatable although in a lot of scenarios id give it to the blaster BS.
This is not true, the break point is much higher than that. Now you're simply lying.
No its totally correct and you have been shown that on more than 1 occasion.
Originally by: Goumindong
But without a gap, what would be the point in flying Amarr ships unless you also closed the gap by making amarr as suitable for solo/small gang as Gallente?
Here we go again...
NARROWING the gap is not the same as totally closing it, at the moment the gap is too wide, now this is not really the amarr ships fault it is because the game has changed and blaster BS need to change along with it.
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Hepren D'narr
Gallente
Downfall inc.
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Posted - 2009.03.18 10:22:00 -
[796]
Edited by: Hepren D''narr on 18/03/2009 10:26:47
Originally by: Electric Universe
Edited by: Electric Universe on 18/03/2009 01:11:16
Originally by: Valadeya uthanaras
Now comming back to blaster:
I TOTALLY AGREE that they should be boosted and here what I think would do best:
10% rate of fire increase across the board of all blaster ( its a 12.5% bonus to damage with added capacitor usage to compensate )
10-15% increase in optimal across the board of all blaster (so instead of the 4500km range , its more around 5km that you start doing insane pew pew)
15-25% decrease in sginature of blaster (hit harder on smaller ship than other weaponry)
10-25% increase in tracking , so that blaster pilot (even BS) understand they need to orbit the target no just stay on top of it....)
My opinion is my own , but this should help , and for even sake stop comparing with laser , it like comparing a shotgun with a revolver ....
Not to bust your bubble, but giving Blasters all of that will make combat in EVE seriously unbalanced.
I will not tell anything more about that, because everybody should know that doing this is a very very stupid idea.
The best idea so far is to give the Null ammo to Blasters a buff. But not sure about that either now, because Blasters role is to be very close range ONLY. It's there where they are good.
Hey, you could atleast try to explain us WHY it would make eve pvp so unbalanced you make it sound. It's not like everybody surprisingly and immediality would start to use Gallente BS's in gangs, instead of, say, Amarr ones? They would still lack the range, like they should, but atleast some of those changes Valadeya suggested, would make them more the way they are supposed to be.
Still, personally I suggest big boost for DPS. Keep the range and tracking as same, but blasters are lacking DPS right now.
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Takeshi Yamato
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Posted - 2009.03.18 10:42:00 -
[797]
Edited by: Takeshi Yamato on 18/03/2009 10:41:55
Originally by: Theron Gyrow
Originally by: Goumindong
But without a gap, what would be the point in flying Amarr ships unless you also closed the gap by making amarr as suitable for solo/small gang as Gallente?
Uhh... Punisher, Crusader, Arbitrator, Curse, Sacrilege, Harbinger are at least equal to Gallente blasterships for soloing. I'd rate Abaddon about the same as any Gallente blaster BS for solo, too, although the rating would be "killmail waiting to happen".
And already for small gangs, Amarr >> Gallente. You have been shown that time and again, but you return back with the same arguments, same lies, not adjusted in any way; a broken record. You are tiresome.
Amarr ships aren't good for soloing in general. They either have lack of speed, damage or med slots, all of which are important for soloing. Only exception is the Sacrilege and the Harbinger.
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Djerin
Free-Space-Ranger
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.03.18 11:01:00 -
[798]
All the solo comparisons are pointless. There is no real solo combat especially for battleships. Forget this stuff. It's not gonna happen on TQ.
I have only 1 suggestion: unnerf the T2 ammo. I propose a removal of the tracking "bonus" on them. Why? That would open 2 possibilities: mediocre damage at medium ranges with Null L and great damage at 4km with Void L. The former would make the ship a bit more useful in gang warfare but it would still not be even close to a Geddon at medium ranges. The later would satisfy the EFT warriors and it would at least make the ship more effective if you actually manage to warp in right on top of your target. As the hostile gang spreads after initial contact Void L gets more and more ineffective.
That way the role of the ship wouldn't change really. And T2 ammo is unbalanced anyways thanks to faction ammo as far as it concerns blasters. (But please don't start to whine about other t2 ammo types that suck. That's a topic for another thread...)
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Sarmaul's crosstrainorgtfo |
maralt
Minmatar
The seers of truth
|
Posted - 2009.03.18 11:11:00 -
[799]
Edited by: maralt on 18/03/2009 11:12:02
Edited by: maralt on 18/03/2009 11:11:26
Originally by: Takeshi Yamato
Amarr ships aren't good for soloing in general. They either have lack of speed, damage or med slots, all of which are important for soloing. Only exception is the Sacrilege and the Harbinger.
While this is true to a extent on some of the amarr ships it avoids the fact that amarr have the very BEST solo ship/s in the game.
Curse/pilgrim.
A max range sniper.
Apoc.
And the best gang ships in the mid to large classes.
Zealot, harbi, baddon, geddon.
Yes you can focus on the ships in those classes that are not as good at certain things but why do that when they have the best or close to it in almost every style of pvp and ship class. (im not a fan of frigs so i do not know if amarr are uber in that area as well and im to busy to check).
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The Djego
Minmatar
merovinger inc
|
Posted - 2009.03.18 11:45:00 -
[800]
Originally by: Djerin
All the solo comparisons are pointless. There is no real solo combat especially for battleships. Forget this stuff. It's not gonna happen on TQ.
It¦s not happening for you, it is for other players, especialy as fare as Empire War and Low Sec PVP goes.
Originally by: Djerin
I have only 1 suggestion: unnerf the T2 ammo. I propose a removal of the tracking "bonus" on them. Why? That would open 2 possibilities: mediocre damage at medium ranges with Null L and great damage at 4km with Void L. The former would make the ship a bit more useful in gang warfare but it would still not be even close to a Geddon at medium ranges. The later would satisfy the EFT warriors and it would at least make the ship more effective if you actually manage to warp in right on top of your target. As the hostile gang spreads after initial contact Void L gets more and more ineffective.
That way the role of the ship wouldn't change really. And T2 ammo is unbalanced anyways thanks to faction ammo as far as it concerns blasters. (But please don't start to whine about other t2 ammo types that suck. That's a topic for another thread...)
Removing the penaltys on T2 Amno -> making Faction Amno useless in one go without giving any real game improvements after all. That is pointless(beside for Minmatar because of the prenerfed Faction Amno).
Unnerfing T2 Amno would change nothing, you have 99% of the Damage with Faction Amno allready(expet Minmatar). A null Mega would still be horrable in any gang beside a Gedon or a Abaddon.
Btw. Void gives about 7km Optimal not 4km with Neutrons, but still wouldn¦t fix the core Issues that are controling your Range/Tracking within Web Range and the ability to overcome the disadvantages of the lower Range, lower EHP and fast Cap drain by a DPS advantage making it worth to fly a Blaster ship in the start.
----
Nerf Tank - Boost Gank!
Originally by: Amantus
Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
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Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
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Posted - 2009.03.18 11:53:00 -
[801]
Edited by: Electric Universe on 18/03/2009 11:56:54
Originally by: Hepren D'narr
Hey, you could atleast try to explain us WHY it would make eve pvp so unbalanced you make it sound. It's not like everybody surprisingly and immediality would start to use Gallente BS's in gangs, instead of, say, Amarr ones? They would still lack the range, like they should, but atleast some of those changes Valadeya suggested, would make them more the way they are supposed to be.
Still, personally I suggest big boost for DPS. Keep the range and tracking as same, but blasters are lacking DPS right now.
Hey, i think you should read the other 100 replies from me here in this topic on why boosting the damage on Blasters are going to make combat in EVE very unbalanced. I'm sure i have explained it why there many times in my earlier topics.
Go and read them.
Saying big boost for Blasters is asking to just get Autocannons deleted from the game, because what should we do with Autocannons when we can just use Blasters because they are 200% better than Autocannons?.
And because you want so high Blaster DPS boost. Does that means you are saying to us all that your Blaster skills and the experience in using them are **** poor?. Good on you for at least admitting it.
EDIT: Just remember one thing when you compare a Megathron to an Abaddon. A Megathron can fit RR on the 8th high slot, an Abaddon can't do that. So only the one RR they can have in thre last high slot can help then seriously in a fight.
Just so you know.
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maralt
Minmatar
The seers of truth
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Posted - 2009.03.18 12:20:00 -
[802]
Originally by: Electric Universe
But hey, comparing a med range weapon system to a very close weapon system is bad mmmkay?.
By that reasoning as blasters do 0 dmg at laser optimal lasers should do 0 dmg at blaster optimal...after all lasers are mid range weapons not short...
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Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
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Posted - 2009.03.18 12:26:00 -
[803]
Originally by: maralt
Originally by: Electric Universe
But hey, comparing a med range weapon system to a very close weapon system is bad mmmkay?.
By that reasoning as blasters do 0 dmg at laser optimal lasers should do 0 dmg at blaster optimal...after all lasers are mid range weapons not short...
Sigh. Are it possible to be this dumb?.
Dude, that's the stupiest thing EVER.
Bawwww, a weapon that can't hit at laser ranges, there lasers shouldn't hit at the close range weapon ranges, hahahahahahahahahahah.
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maralt
Minmatar
The seers of truth
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Posted - 2009.03.18 12:29:00 -
[804]
Originally by: Electric Universe
Originally by: maralt
Originally by: Electric Universe
But hey, comparing a med range weapon system to a very close weapon system is bad mmmkay?.
By that reasoning as blasters do 0 dmg at laser optimal lasers should do 0 dmg at blaster optimal...after all lasers are mid range weapons not short...
Sigh. Are it possible to be this dumb?.
Dude, that's the stupiest thing EVER.
Bawwww, a weapon that can't hit at laser ranges, there lasers shouldn't hit at the close range weapon ranges, hahahahahahahahahahah.
Maybe you should find a better argument then.
If your argument for blasters not hitting at mid ranges is because they are short range weapons then the same logic can be applied to lasers in reverse, they are mid range so they should not hit at short...
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Djerin
Free-Space-Ranger
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.03.18 12:29:00 -
[805]
Originally by: The Djego
Originally by: Djerin
All the solo comparisons are pointless. There is no real solo combat especially for battleships. Forget this stuff. It's not gonna happen on TQ.
It¦s not happening for you, it is for other players, especialy as fare as Empire War and Low Sec PVP goes.
Sorry, but you're talking about PvN as in player vs noob. EVE is just not a solo game. Everyone who is slightly organized and actually doing pvp will automatically gank your lone battleship that you patched the slogan "there is solo pvp in EVE" onto.
Originally by: The Djego
Removing the penaltys on T2 Amno -> making Faction Amno useless in one go without giving any real game improvements after all. That is pointless(beside for Minmatar because of the prenerfed Faction Amno).
Unnerfing T2 Amno would change nothing, you have 99% of the Damage with Faction Amno allready(expet Minmatar).
Well, there's more to it than just plain damage. You should know it best given that you're actually a blaster-user yourself. People here were complaining that a blaster boat is utterly useless compared to especially laser boats. So removing the penalties would make blasters a bit more usable in gangs preferably.
Also you just proved my point of T2 ammo needing an unnerf, because faction ammo having same damage literally without any penalty is just wrong. There is absolutely no point in using Void at all. It only works against capitals and pos mods. Not even against the pos itself because of the range. Maybe halving the penalty would be fine too.
Besides, faction ammo has another advantage: it can be used in blasters as well as in rails. Unnerfing Void wouldn't make faction obsolete, because there's still alot of people using it in their rails.
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Sarmaul's crosstrainorgtfo |
Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
|
Posted - 2009.03.18 12:48:00 -
[806]
Edited by: Electric Universe on 18/03/2009 12:55:56
Originally by: maralt
Maybe you should find a better argument then.
If your argument for blasters not hitting at mid ranges is because they are short range weapons then the same logic can be applied to lasers in reverse, they are mid range so they should not hit at short...
Dude, take a look here.
Blasters have those ranges: ---------->
Lasers have those ranges: --------------------------------------------------------------------->
Lasers can still hit targets HERE right under the Blaster range.
But you can clearly see that Blasters can't hit at the ranges Lasers can hit at.
Now tell me that you get it this time.
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The Djego
Minmatar
merovinger inc
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Posted - 2009.03.18 13:12:00 -
[807]
Originally by: Mila Prestoc
I doubt anyone would say Blasters at frig size are weak (sure boost the taranis n co! lol). Cruisers are pretty cool to (thorax/vexor, brutix is like most tier 1 bcs). It just seems there's this one big ship called a Abaddon that everyones focusing on to rebalance large sized weapons.
For me it is still the ship hulls making things appear... skewed (being diplomatic here). EVE is a multiplayer game, more players, more gangs, bigger gangs, hence the trend in tanking goes more to passive tanking as damage taken is more often higher. The Abaddon is the top tier gang designed ship, the Hyperion is a solo/tiny gang designed ship more for when taking <2500 dps. Consider if the Megathron was the top tier with the higher base stats (such as HP), so passive tanking it doesn't ignore a bonus and its better design for gangs with its spare high for a RR. That would close the gap between Gallente and Amarr when in gangs.
Teranis is ok because it can control range better than any other Blaster ship, tanking on Frigs and Ceptors is very limited compared to the DPS you can push out and there are no EHP Rigs(or better not real praktival use for them) and the Taranis is one of the Ceptors with the highest EHP(thx to the structure Tank). It combines high EHP with a serious DPS advantage and the ability to control range against mostly untankted ships with very low EHP without beeing broken actualy.
Thorax is fare worse, as soon as you screw up in a approch(or the other Cruiser makes a simple MWD manuver away from your path) you will end up 5km away to the other ship, any tanked Cruiser with a Scram will now kill you. By the time you get in range again(if ever) you will be out of HP allready. Covering this with a ECM Drone gamble like many do isn¦t a reason the Throax should be screwed hard within Web Range.
Brutix is mostly the same with a bigger buffer and more Gank or with a bit of a Tank(dooing the same DPS a standard issue Thorax does).
The Gedon is one Tier lower than the Mega and you will get a very close fight(somewhere under 50% structure) between equaly well skilled Pilotes. It¦s not actualy a Tier issues in the end.
Quote:
But without a gap, what would be the point in flying Amarr ships unless you also closed the gap by making amarr as suitable for solo/small gang as Gallente?
What is the point in flying a Blaster Ship in a bigger Gang? Why should ships with a serious Range advantage and EHP Advantage be on par with short range gank ships in solo/small gang?
This is exactly the issue atm, you put a Ship that is fare better in bigger gangs(also in small gangs in many situations) on par with ships that are fare worse in bigger gangs for solo/small gang ballance. This actualy ends with one Ship simply beeing better in most of the situations and there is no big point in using the other.
It isn¦t so that Amarr got very good ships for solo/small Gang:
Crusader, Punisher, Aribrator, Harbinger, Gedon, Abaddon, Cruse, Navy Omen, Sacrileg, Pilgram.
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Nerf Tank - Boost Gank!
Originally by: Amantus
Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
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The Djego
Minmatar
merovinger inc
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Posted - 2009.03.18 14:14:00 -
[808]
Edited by: The Djego on 18/03/2009 14:18:23
Originally by: Djerin
Originally by: The Djego
Originally by: Djerin
All the solo comparisons are pointless. There is no real solo combat especially for battleships. Forget this stuff. It's not gonna happen on TQ.
It¦s not happening for you, it is for other players, especialy as fare as Empire War and Low Sec PVP goes.
Sorry, but you're talking about PvN as in player vs noob. EVE is just not a solo game. Everyone who is slightly organized and actually doing pvp will automatically gank your lone battleship that you patched the slogan "there is solo pvp in EVE" onto.
This discussion leading nowhere. There are multiple types of players in eve, some like Primary is, Secondary is style of PVP, some don¦t. The fact that many people beeing bored about beeing one of 20-50 guyes getting a lock and press F1 before the Target explodes and the fact that huge gangs are a big wast of time in Low Sec/Empire Wars makes PVP there very diffrent. Killing a Noob in a Belt in 0.0 or in Low Sec is exactly the same, that dosn¦t mean that anybody there is a noob.
Originally by: Djerin
Originally by: The Djego
Removing the penaltys on T2 Amno -> making Faction Amno useless in one go without giving any real game improvements after all. That is pointless(beside for Minmatar because of the prenerfed Faction Amno).
Unnerfing T2 Amno would change nothing, you have 99% of the Damage with Faction Amno allready(expet Minmatar).
Well, there's more to it than just plain damage. You should know it best given that you're actually a blaster-user yourself. People here were complaining that a blaster boat is utterly useless compared to especially laser boats. So removing the penalties would make blasters a bit more usable in gangs preferably.
Also you just proved my point of T2 ammo needing an unnerf, because faction ammo having same damage literally without any penalty is just wrong. There is absolutely no point in using Void at all. It only works against capitals and pos mods. Not even against the pos itself because of the range. Maybe halving the penalty would be fine too.
Besides, faction ammo has another advantage: it can be used in blasters as well as in rails. Unnerfing Void wouldn't make faction obsolete, because there's still alot of people using it in their rails.
If proving your point is unnerfing T2 Close range Amno and fixing actualy nothing than yes, you are perfectly right. People would use Javelin for the rails if it wouldn¦t be this overnerfed actualy(or do you just want to unnerf T2 Amno for short Range Guns)?
T2 Short range Amno needs a new role, and this actualy another topic.
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Nerf Tank - Boost Gank!
Originally by: Amantus
Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
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Traderboz
|
Posted - 2009.03.18 14:33:00 -
[809]
One thing I've been wondering about, and take this more as a question please than an assertion, haha, since I don't fly blasterboats and I am just genuinely curious. AFAIK, the recent nerf to blasters was basically the web nerf, perhaps in conjunction with some of the speed changes. That makes perfect sense to me, as blasterboats rely on a target standing still and now that requires an extra module. What I don't understand is all this sky-is-falling talk in this thread about blasters in small gangs, where odds are you will have multiple webs and/or scambler on the target (and you don't necessarily have to fit them yourself). I guess what I'm wondering is if you're in a small gang that has tacklers, how different is the blasterboat now than pre-speed/web nerf?
I do tend to think lasers overshadow most weapons, not just blasters, but in my mind blasters haven't changed that much in recent patches (except in 1v1 situations). They're weapons that require you to get close to a target to deal damage, but I mean, that's nothing new is it? Weren't they always? :P
I tend to just think lasers could be scaled down in damage a bit, and things would even out. If you buff blaster damage from what it is now, then you're going to have to really look at Matari battleships, as they're going to be (even more of) a joke.
Also, as a final note, I'm wondering if it's not more of a ship issue than specifically a blaster issue. For instance, Deimos is pretty bad/outdone by a Brutix, but isn't that more of a problem with the Deimos specifically, and not a blaster problem? Also, the earlier comparisons of Hyperion to Abaddon really highlight the ship problems to me, as you're comparing a ship with a resist bonus (\o/) to one with a repper bonus (). If you imagine a world where Hyperion has a better second bonus, haha, then I think things might compare a bit differently.
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Mag's
the united
Negative Ten.
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Posted - 2009.03.18 14:42:00 -
[810]
Originally by: Electric Universe
For me it looks like there are many here that are very very bitter because CCP nerfed your ultimate pwnage machine (aka Megathron) a little some time ago.
A Megathron needed that little nerf. Because it was just way to powerfull earlier.
This post just shows how clueless you actually are.
Just a hint for you, the Mega has been far from 'overpowered' for years, a fact that my good friend Dalman could attest too.
As he has started many a thread in the past regarding that fact, with very detailed and informative facts.
The last time the Mega was powerful, was pre the damage module stacking nerf, a time when the Geddon ruled with lasers. Fun times.
The QR patch finished off a long and slow decline of the blaster boat, a decline that gave us a smudging of the definition and differences of weapon systems.
All or most of your PvP experience has taken place on sisi and you've not used blasters on TQ for PvP.
Whether posting with you main or this char, if people show you arguments that fit the topic, but don't fit yours, you get personal and call them either ******ed, dumb or stupid.
No wonder you had your main banned.
Regards
Mag's |
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Childstar
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Posted - 2009.03.18 14:57:00 -
[811]
Originally by: Mag's
Originally by: Electric Universe
For me it looks like there are many here that are very very bitter because CCP nerfed your ultimate pwnage machine (aka Megathron) a little some time ago.
A Megathron needed that little nerf. Because it was just way to powerfull earlier.
This post just shows how clueless you actually are.
Just a hint for you, the Mega has been far from 'overpowered' for years, a fact that my good friend Dalman could attest too.
As he has started many a thread in the past regarding that fact, with very detailed and informative facts.
The last time the Mega was powerful, was pre the damage module stacking nerf, a time when the Geddon ruled with lasers. Fun times.
The QR patch finished off a long and slow decline of the blaster boat, a decline that gave us a smudging of the definition and differences of weapon systems.
All or most of your PvP experience has taken place on sisi and you've not used blasters on TQ for PvP.
Whether posting with you main or this char, if people show you arguments that fit the topic, but don't fit yours, you get personal and call them either ******ed, dumb or stupid.
No wonder you had your main banned.
Id like to disagree with mags on some of his points.......unfortunatly they are all totally accurate so i cannot.
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Djerin
Free-Space-Ranger
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.03.18 15:03:00 -
[812]
Originally by: The Djego
Edited by: The Djego on 18/03/2009 14:18:23
The fact that many people beeing bored about beeing one of 20-50 guyes getting a lock and press F1 before the Target explodes and the fact that huge gangs are a big wast of time in Low Sec/Empire Wars makes PVP there very diffrent. Killing a Noob in a Belt in 0.0 or in Low Sec is exactly the same, that dosn¦t mean that anybody there is a noob.
You're misunderstanding me. I was only talking about 1on1 being virtually non-existent on TQ. it's not a criticism of your playstyle. I just massively doubt you're constantly or even rarely getting 1on1 battleship duels. Hence my opinion is this shouldn't be the main argument to compare weapon systems or ships for that matter.
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Sarmaul's crosstrainorgtfo |
maralt
Minmatar
The seers of truth
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Posted - 2009.03.18 15:08:00 -
[813]
Originally by: Electric Universe
Originally by: maralt
Maybe you should find a better argument then.
If your argument for blasters not hitting at mid ranges is because they are short range weapons then the same logic can be applied to lasers in reverse, they are mid range so they should not hit at short...
Dude, take a look here.
Blasters have those ranges: ---------->
Lasers have those ranges: --------------------------------------------------------------------->
Lasers can still hit targets HERE right under the Blaster range.
Now tell me that you get it this time.
What i see is somebody who thinks he is clever but misses everything but the blindingly obvious, theres nothing worse than trying to communicate with somebody who thinks he is clever when he actually is not....
Heres a hint, a reduction in tracking would make lasers less effective in close (blaster) range while still allowing them to be effective at mid (laser) ranges.
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The Djego
Minmatar
merovinger inc
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Posted - 2009.03.18 15:22:00 -
[814]
Originally by: Traderboz
One thing I've been wondering about, and take this more as a question please than an assertion, haha, since I don't fly blasterboats and I am just genuinely curious. AFAIK, the recent nerf to blasters was basically the web nerf, perhaps in conjunction with some of the speed changes. That makes perfect sense to me, as blasterboats rely on a target standing still and now that requires an extra module. What I don't understand is all this sky-is-falling talk in this thread about blasters in small gangs, where odds are you will have multiple webs and/or scambler on the target (and you don't necessarily have to fit them yourself). I guess what I'm wondering is if you're in a small gang that has tacklers, how different is the blasterboat now than pre-speed/web nerf?
If you have multiple Webs you still have to get into optimal range(out of RR Range/Dock/Jump in some cases) what takes longer. If you are not the main Damage dealer for the gang(having multiple hig DPS Ships) it dosn¦t make this big diffrence in Gangs if you bring a Blaster Ship or a Laser Ship. This combined with the advantage of fielding the better Tank + the better range makes the Laser ship here better than putting another 100-200 DPS on the Target for a short timeframe with a Blaster Ship most of the time(more by gameplay than EFT numbers). This was exactly the same before QR(Blasters wasn¦t this hot but decend), but with the exeption that the Blaster ship still had a 90% Web making it a deacend solo machine.
Originally by: Traderboz
I do tend to think lasers overshadow most weapons, not just blasters, but in my mind blasters haven't changed that much in recent patches (except in 1v1 situations). They're weapons that require you to get close to a target to deal damage, but I mean, that's nothing new is it? Weren't they always? :P
I tend to just think lasers could be scaled down in damage a bit, and things would even out. If you buff blaster damage from what it is now, then you're going to have to really look at Matari battleships, as they're going to be (even more of) a joke.
Blasters havn¦t changed, Eve did. In 2006 before the HP Boost, Rigs, massive HP/active Tanks, 60% Webs, dirt cheap T2 Ships/Mods, multiple speed Nerfs(Mass on MWDs, first speed nerf, QR Nano Nerf), Tier 3 BS, EM Resist Nerf, Torp Boost, Tier 2 BCs, HICs(just counting Classes that are based on massive Tanks) they simply played in another environment.
The Problem arn¦t lasers(I hate the locus Nerf realy), I like how lasers are done now, I dislike how Blasters, some Missles and AKs do.
Originally by: Traderboz
Also, as a final note, I'm wondering if it's not more of a ship issue than specifically a blaster issue. For instance, Deimos is pretty bad/outdone by a Brutix, but isn't that more of a problem with the Deimos specifically, and not a blaster problem? Also, the earlier comparisons of Hyperion to Abaddon really highlight the ship problems to me, as you're comparing a ship with a resist bonus (\o/) to one with a repper bonus (). If you imagine a world where Hyperion has a better second bonus, haha, then I think things might compare a bit differently.
Deimos is supposed to do the same as a BC, without having the ability to overcome BCs at close range(by serious outganking them before it dies) in gangs. Solo it is deadly to lone cruisers but it actualy does the same as a Thorax(a bit better) without the increased flexiblity other Hacs get for 6-7 times the pricetag of a fully fitted Thorax.
Many people asked wtf, as CCP introduced the Hyperion. Introducing a "dedicated Blaster Ship" with the same Rep Bonus like the Brutix(that is mostly shieldbuffered today in Gangs) and 6 Low Slots. I personaly can¦t state myself as a big fan of the Hype(I got 3 or so laying around and I use them from time to time) and I would have taken a double damage bonus over the Rep Bonus any day of the week.
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Nerf Tank - Boost Gank!
Originally by: Amantus
Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
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Mila Prestoc
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Posted - 2009.03.18 15:42:00 -
[815]
Originally by: The Djego
Teranis is ok because it can control range better than any other Blaster ship, tanking on Frigs and Ceptors is very limited compared to the DPS you can push out and there are no EHP Rigs(or better not real praktival use for them) and the Taranis is one of the Ceptors with the highest EHP(thx to the structure Tank). It combines high EHP with a serious DPS advantage and the ability to control range against mostly untankted ships with very low EHP without beeing broken actualy.
Thorax is fare worse, as soon as you screw up in a approch(or the other Cruiser makes a simple MWD manuver away from your path) you will end up 5km away to the other ship, any tanked Cruiser with a Scram will now kill you. By the time you get in range again(if ever) you will be out of HP allready. Covering this with a ECM Drone gamble like many do isn¦t a reason the Throax should be screwed hard within Web Range.
Brutix is mostly the same with a bigger buffer and more Gank or with a bit of a Tank(dooing the same DPS a standard issue Thorax does).
The Gedon is one Tier lower than the Mega and you will get a very close fight(somewhere under 50% structure) between equaly well skilled Pilotes. It¦s not actualy a Tier issues in the end.
Taranis yeah. You also missed easy fitting off the list aswell as pretty good base stats like cap.
Thorax, thats balanced imo, what you described was down to piloting skill/error when solo'ing.
Well thats the thing with tiers and racial trends. Caldari get weight HP to shields, amarr to armour, minny is balanced with small weighting to shields and gallente balanced with small weighting to armour (with extra structure). So because of weighting and bs having pleanty of tanking slots, the lowest tier amarr will not be far behind higher tiers of other races. Geddon vs Mega is worse for Tempest because its hp balance is more shields than armour unlike the Mega.
Maybe need to suggest tweaking the base HP values (god knows Tempest+Typhoon pilots have said it for years) because a small difference becomes much bigger when fitting 5/6 slot tanks. At inty/cruiser level fitting 1 or 2 slot tanks structure is a major part of total EHP, a lot more than at BS level.
Mega will always be more flexable with its 4 mids than the geddons with its 3. I'm constantly told that flexability is a reason the Tempest is below average at everything . But seriously if you put a MWD on a Geddon so it can maneouver like others its combat performance drops dramatically compared to MWD on other ships. Consider my theoretical top tier Mega, its solo'ing ability would also increase since you'd have more HP, so fighting a Geddon wouldn't be so close.
-------------------------
Originally by: "Lord Violent"
EvE is slowly becoming a game for the stupid, catered to by devs as they lack ability to kill/survive anything.
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The Djego
Minmatar
merovinger inc
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Posted - 2009.03.18 16:10:00 -
[816]
Originally by: Djerin
Originally by: The Djego
Edited by: The Djego on 18/03/2009 14:18:23
The fact that many people beeing bored about beeing one of 20-50 guyes getting a lock and press F1 before the Target explodes and the fact that huge gangs are a big wast of time in Low Sec/Empire Wars makes PVP there very diffrent. Killing a Noob in a Belt in 0.0 or in Low Sec is exactly the same, that dosn¦t mean that anybody there is a noob.
You're misunderstanding me. I was only talking about 1on1 being virtually non-existent on TQ. it's not a criticism of your playstyle. I just massively doubt you're constantly or even rarely getting 1on1 battleship duels. Hence my opinion is this shouldn't be the main argument to compare weapon systems or ships for that matter.
It gets less and less since QR, it¦s not that they aren¦t there.
The main Problem is around what would you ballance the Mega(or Blaster Ships in general) that are suposed to be effective solo/small gang Ships?
There are no reasons to use them in bigger gangs(with Blasters), even in smaller ones her performance isn¦t stellar till a point where the few extra DPS realy win the fight, nuke a target before deagressing and jumping/docking or break a heavy Tank. That is the case in 1-4 Ship scenarios at best(asuming you are not the only Damage dealer). This is allready a very limited role and with the speed and web nerf Blaster ships got another hard hit exactly in her very limited role.
If a Blaster Ship can¦t overcome a Ship in the same class in a solo fight(with on TQ usefull fittings and common scenarios) when getting into Web Range by taking it clearly out with the DPS advantage it has no real role.
I had this discussion before its basicly like this:
A: Blasters are the ultimate high DPS close Range weapon, what makes them good for solo.
B: But they suck at it.
A: It dosen¦t mattter solo don¦t exist, stop whining.
B: When did you used a Blaster ship the last time and stated I won because I have flown a Blaster Ship?
A: Nobody flyes Blaster ships this days, so how knows? I heard they are good Gang Damagedealers.
B: But people use Lasers for this, because it is the role of lasers.
A: But they outdamage Lasers at Optimal, her look at my EFT numbers.
B: But they fail at TQ to take down Laser ships.
A: ...
and so on.
Around what do you want ballance Blaster ships instead?
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Nerf Tank - Boost Gank!
Originally by: Amantus
Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
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Djerin
Free-Space-Ranger
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.03.18 16:46:00 -
[817]
Originally by: The Djego
Around what do you want ballance Blaster ships instead?
I want them just as you do. I love flying them even if they suck. What I don't want is blasters being just like lasers.
You said it yourself, a lot has changed but blasters haven't. My proposal was directed to sort of frame it's role again by giving them quite a bit more gankage power in web range. Because the nerf to webbifiers was too much probably.
But how else would you do that without unbalancing the gun or ship itself? You cannot simply give the Mega an additional bonus for webstrength. But you can't switch one of it's existing bonuses to webstrength either, because it needs them. Improve the blasters? That's a bad idea, because it's not the blasters fault. Also this would needlessly buff non-blasterboats (Domi, Myrm...). Changing Void the way I said is just one possibility which neither increases raw damage nor range. It's a simple one. Also it's quite subtle so that we wouldn't get flooded by "nerf Mega" whines immediately.
Go ahead, make a better suggestion if you disagree. :)
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Sarmaul's crosstrainorgtfo |
The Djego
Minmatar
merovinger inc
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Posted - 2009.03.18 17:01:00 -
[818]
Originally by: Mila Prestoc
Thorax, thats balanced imo, what you described was down to piloting skill/error when solo'ing.
Unfortualy you can¦t corretct this by player skills, your only chance are ECM Drones(that will screw you to against things you can¦t get webbed since they are to slow). It isn¦t actualy a hard manuver, both ships have to slow down, even with the increased agility this takes some time and you will end up outranged within Web Range.
Exactly this made me stop flying it, it can¦t control range within Web range or will take to mutch cap/time adjusting ranges, loosing the DPS advantage. It is fairly easy to take one down with a Rupture and even before QR it was a close call(while having a Anti Explo Pump and dooing 600 DPS during overload) to overcome a 1600mm plated Rupture/Vexor/Aribrator in a 800mm plated Thorax(that also ends up taking 10-11k Damage on my loosemails). It isn¦t to hard to kite it with a Omen or a Stabber to.
Originally by: Mila Prestoc
Well thats the thing with tiers and racial trends. Caldari get weight HP to shields, amarr to armour, minny is balanced with small weighting to shields and gallente balanced with small weighting to armour (with extra structure). So because of weighting and bs having pleanty of tanking slots, the lowest tier amarr will not be far behind higher tiers of other races. Geddon vs Mega is worse for Tempest because its hp balance is more shields than armour unlike the Mega.
Yust wanted to point out that Tiers at itself arn¦t this important. I personaly take a Phoon fare more serious than a Pest(I know it¦s a bit of a cheap card played by me here ).
Originally by: Mila Prestoc
Maybe need to suggest tweaking the base HP values (god knows Tempest+Typhoon pilots have said it for years) because a small difference becomes much bigger when fitting 5/6 slot tanks. At inty/cruiser level fitting 1 or 2 slot tanks structure is a major part of total EHP, a lot more than at BS level.
Well as soon as you enter BC/BS class Rigs + many slots for tanking are avaidalbe and cost efficent. The main problem is also Turret rigs have preaty drastic penaltys(you don¦t have the grid most of the time if you want to fit them) and only T2 Damage rigs are worth fitting because of the stacking while Tanking Rigs are more univeral and not stackingnerfed in most cases(with Mods). But I think reballancing all this is fare to mutch work so I looking for a easier solution atm.
Originally by: Mila Prestoc
Mega will always be more flexable with its 4 mids than the geddons with its 3. I'm constantly told that flexability is a reason the Tempest is below average at everything .
But seriously if you put a MWD on a Geddon so it can maneouver like others its combat performance drops dramatically compared to MWD on other ships. Consider my theoretical top tier Mega, its solo'ing ability would also increase since you'd have more HP, so fighting a Geddon wouldn't be so close.
Most Gedons I have seen don¦t fit a MWD(in low Sec). You could tell it flexible that the Mega has another Med for the MWD to get in range while the Gedon will be in range from the start in any encounter a MWD would be usefull. If you need 20 Seconds to get in range(beeing under 20 km away from the Gedon) you allready will loose or end up somewhere under 50% Structure. That isn¦t actual flexible in the end. Same goes to gank fitted Torp Ravens, that even cause more trouble since they can mount a MWD and are faster+more agile(without the plates+Armor Rigs).
Its basicly like telling people Pests win if they don¦t get webbed by a Mega(while you still do a fair amount of Damage with Null up to 20km). You win basicly with Neuts or EW in the extra Med not actualy by using the range advantage, since you still will have less DPS and buffer at this ranges.
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Nerf Tank - Boost Gank!
Originally by: Amantus
Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
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The Djego
Minmatar
merovinger inc
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Posted - 2009.03.18 18:12:00 -
[819]
Edited by: The Djego on 18/03/2009 18:13:59
Originally by: Djerin
Originally by: The Djego
Around what do you want ballance Blaster ships instead?
I want them just as you do. I love flying them even if they suck. What I don't want is blasters being just like lasers.
You said it yourself, a lot has changed but blasters haven't. My proposal was directed to sort of frame it's role again by giving them quite a bit more gankage power in web range. Because the nerf to webbifiers was too much probably.
But how else would you do that without unbalancing the gun or ship itself? You cannot simply give the Mega an additional bonus for webstrength.
I actual sugested this multiple times, the bonus is even allready ingame on a Blaster BS(Kronos). Even 50% of this role Bonus would go a long way helping Blaster ships to track, hold Targets in place and maintain range.
Originally by: Djerin
Originally by: The Djego
But you can't switch one of it's existing bonuses to webstrength either, because it needs them.
True.
Originally by: Djerin
Originally by: The Djego
Improve the blasters? That's a bad idea, because it's not the blasters fault. Also this would needlessly buff non-blasterboats (Domi, Myrm...). Changing Void the way I said is just one possibility which neither increases raw damage nor range. It's a simple one. Also it's quite subtle so that we wouldn't get flooded by "nerf Mega" whines immediately.
Go ahead, make a better suggestion if you disagree. :)
People will fit on Ships without a Turret Bonus(or Turret Cap Bonus) the weapon system/Cap Warefare that suits her needs. It isn¦t so that anybody fits Blaster on them now, you see a lot of AKs and Lasers here to.
Myrm isn¦t the big issue here, since more Turret DPS are not the same amout to the total DPS increase here in the end(because of the Drone Bonus). Domi does lots of his DPS with his Drones to.
I preaty mutch fail to see a weapon overpowert on a ship without Bonuses for the Weapon itself if it¦s even struggels on ships that got the Bonuses for it.
Switching the Bonus on the Amno wouldn¦t change this to, it would be still not limited on ships but on the Weapons again.
Unnerfing T2 Shortrange Amno:
Void, gives 25% more Optimal(than Antimatter) and 25% less Falloff with a very tiny Damage increase over Faction Amnos. That is actualy better for Blasters(more Optimal to work with) but wouldn¦t change mutch, you will fail in exact the same situations like you do now with Faction Antimatter since all you get are a bit more Optimal(about 2.5km with Neutrons actualy, 700m with my Electron Thorax).
Null, gives 25% more Optimal and 25% more Falloff, the tracking Penalty isn¦t this extrem(since you use it at fare longer range than Antimatter) but still it misses out quite some DPS compared to Void/Faction Antimatter and you mostly shoot stuff in Falloff. It is a improvement but still Null is your option to put some DPS at targets that are beyond Antimatter range, it only works if you still maintain the DPS and EHP advantage(like shooting smaller stuff or ships with less EHP).
You won¦t get any nerf Mega\Blaster Threads with this solution, because It actualy don¦t improves any point where you struggle with a Blaster ships today.
Well simple things actualy. A limited role Bonus to Web Strengt(lets say 70-75%), only works in Web Range and fixes 3 core issues at once(holding Target in place, Tracking at extrem close ranges, controling range to the target) and even buffs DPS a bit because of less DPS loose to tracking.
Also 10-15% more Damage(we could switch 5% to hybrid Damage to 7.5% on the ships to prevent using it at other Ships). After this testing on Sissi, a lot of testing, like it should have happend before QR and find a good solution. 10-15(or 12.5 with the bigger base Bonus) is quite carefull here, I fly a Mega with 20% more DPS than the 1.25k setup and it still fails to take down meat shields like the Abaddon.
----
Nerf Tank - Boost Gank!
Originally by: Amantus
Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
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Goumindong
Amarr
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.03.18 19:50:00 -
[820]
Originally by: maralt
By that reasoning as blasters do 0 dmg at laser optimal lasers should do 0 dmg at blaster optimal...after all lasers are mid range weapons not short...
Blasters do not do 0 damage at laser optimal.
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maralt
Minmatar
The seers of truth
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Posted - 2009.03.18 19:58:00 -
[821]
Originally by: Goumindong
Originally by: maralt
By that reasoning as blasters do 0 dmg at laser optimal lasers should do 0 dmg at blaster optimal...after all lasers are mid range weapons not short...
Blasters do not do 0 damage at laser optimal.
Oh joy a gourmie word game...
By that reasoning as blasters do 0 dmg in the extreem parts of lasers optimal (30-45+km) where lasers hit for high dmg, then lasers should do 0 dmg in the extreem parts of blaster optimal where blasters hit for high damage...after all lasers are mid range weapons not short...
Do you ever get tired of being petty minded or is it that you tend to support the unsupportable and only have that to use?.
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Koloch
Amarr
Warriors Lost
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Posted - 2009.03.18 20:17:00 -
[822]
Originally by: The Djego
B: When did you used a Blaster ship the last time and stated I won because I have flown a Blaster Ship?
A: Nobody flyes Blaster ships this days, so how knows? I heard they are good Gang Damagedealers.
Man I'm getting tired of people saying this. I spend a lot of spare time looking at other corporation's killboards. Players still use blasterships and if anything there are usually in higher use. This over exageration is really getting tiresome.
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Koloch
Amarr
Warriors Lost
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Posted - 2009.03.18 20:24:00 -
[823]
Originally by: maralt
Originally by: Goumindong
Originally by: maralt
By that reasoning as blasters do 0 dmg at laser optimal lasers should do 0 dmg at blaster optimal...after all lasers are mid range weapons not short...
Blasters do not do 0 damage at laser optimal.
Oh joy a gourmie word game...
By that reasoning as blasters do 0 dmg in the extreem parts of lasers optimal (30-45+km) where lasers hit for high dmg, then lasers should do 0 dmg in the extreem parts of blaster optimal where blasters hit for high damage...after all lasers are mid range weapons not short...
Do you ever get tired of being petty minded or is it that you tend to support the unsupportable and only have that to use?.
except when outside of your optimal and in laser optimal you have the option to warp off/get a better warp in point. When you're inside your optimal targets are scrambled -so for a ship that can't hit it's certain death. Seems very overpowered to me.
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Childstar
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Posted - 2009.03.18 20:27:00 -
[824]
Originally by: Koloch
Man I'm getting tired of people saying this. I spend a lot of spare time looking at other corporation's killboards. Players still use blasterships and if anything there are usually in higher use. This over exageration is really getting tiresome.
Even with perfect gunnery and ship tertiary skills it takes a while to train up T2 pulse plus amaar BS 5 ect. I have only just finished it myself although i did beams while i was at it as well.
Do not confuse the fact that ppl HAVE to fly blaster BS in gangs because they do not have anything else trained, with blaster BS being a good gang ship.
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Hepren D'narr
Gallente
Downfall inc.
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Posted - 2009.03.18 20:27:00 -
[825]
Originally by: Electric Universe
Edited by: Electric Universe on 18/03/2009 12:22:25
Originally by: Hepren D'narr
Hey, you could atleast try to explain us WHY it would make eve pvp so unbalanced you make it sound. It's not like everybody surprisingly and immediality would start to use Gallente BS's in gangs, instead of, say, Amarr ones? They would still lack the range, like they should, but atleast some of those changes Valadeya suggested, would make them more the way they are supposed to be.
Still, personally I suggest big boost for DPS. Keep the range and tracking as same, but blasters are lacking DPS right now.
Hey, i think you should read the other 100 replies from me here in this topic on why boosting the damage on Blasters are going to make combat in EVE very unbalanced. I'm sure i have explained it why there many times in my earlier topics.
Go and read them.
Saying big boost for Blasters is asking to just get Autocannons deleted from the game, because what should we do with Autocannons when we can just use Blasters because they are 200% better than Autocannons?.
And because you want so high Blaster DPS boost. Does that means you are saying to us all that your Blaster skills and the experience in using them are **** poor?. Good on you for at least admitting it.
If you don't think 30% better DPS on Neutrons than Pulses at 5 km is enough, then don't whine about your noob skills here.
EDIT: Just remember one thing when you compare a Megathron to an Abaddon. A Megathron can fit RR on the 8th high slot, an Abaddon can't do that. So only the one RR they can have in the last high slot can help them seriously in a fight.
Just so you know.
So now, lets see what kind of advantages / disadvantages a Megathron / Gallente BS'es have and what an Abaddon / Amarr BS'es have.
The advantages a Megathron / Gallente BS'es have is very high resists to EM and Thermal (Lasers) damage. Neutrons do a bit more DPS than Pulses do (around 30% more infact) at 5 km because Blasters do Kinetic and Thermal damage that is way better damage to take on armor than EM and Thermal. A Megathron can fit one RR on the last high slot to rep each others. And believe me, this helps alot.
Blasters have very short range, and it means you have to MWD more to get to the target fastest possible. As i see it, a Neutron fitted Mega are passive anyways, so you have to use the cap on something heh.
Ok lets see what an Abaddon have as advantages / disadvantages over Gallente BS'es.
Lasers do around the same DPS as Blasters in some situations. But in most situations, Lasers do 25-30% lesser DPS than Blasters at 5 km because of the resists to omni tanks and because stats wise before any bonuses. The Neutrons do 16.7% better DPS than Pulses anyways stats wise before any bonuses.
And Lasers have way more range than Blasters, and do way way more damage at med range than Blaster does. And Lasers have good tracking at the med ranges. But not so good tracking at 3-8 km.
But hey, comparing a med range weapon system to a very close weapon system is bad mmmkay?.
Hmph, I red all your posts, and all I saw you repeating half of the time how neutrons have 30+% damage @ their optimal range, compared to lasers. The other half was about you arguing how you're not NightmareX, but his friend who lives at Oslo.
I still cannot see you reasoning anyhow it would make PvP in EVE unbalanced. Seriously, do you think most PvP situations happens at Blasters optimal range? Only when you're dropped on top of your target; but that still leaves the rest of enemy gang MWD'ing away from their trapped gangmate.
Originally by: Electric Universe
And because you want so high Blaster DPS boost. Does that means you are saying to us all that your Blaster skills and the experience in using them are **** poor?. Good on you for at least admitting it.
I find that sentence quite funny. Even Bellum Eternus thinks blasters require big boost at their DPS.
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maralt
Minmatar
The seers of truth
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Posted - 2009.03.18 20:36:00 -
[826]
Edited by: maralt on 18/03/2009 20:36:36
Originally by: Koloch
except when outside of your optimal and in laser optimal you have the option to warp off/get a better warp in point. When you're inside your optimal targets are scrambled -so for a ship that can't hit it's certain death. Seems very overpowered to me.
You do not need to point out how laser BS range gives them such a huge advantage in available "range tanking" as well as a much greater survivability in gang combat due to working very well outside point range.
Compared to blaster BS that not only need to operate within point range but web range as well....and the optimal of every ship in the oposing gang....
And yet its the ships that has the largest available range tank that also gets the greatest EHP to go with it...
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Takeshi Yamato
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Posted - 2009.03.18 20:40:00 -
[827]
Quote:
I find that sentence quite funny. Even Bellum Eternus thinks blasters require big boost at their DPS.
Blaster damage boost at all levels? Frigate blasters are more than fine.
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Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
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Posted - 2009.03.18 20:42:00 -
[828]
Edited by: Electric Universe on 18/03/2009 20:47:06
maralt, Mag's and Childstar, no matter what kind of idiotic crying / whining or trolling your doing, it's not gonna prove ANYTHING that Blasters need to be boosted.
I have given like 1000 reasons and have given good examples on why Blasters does NOT need a boost now. And also why such boost to Blasters would make WAAAAAAAY more problems that it fixes.
Specially when you think about the other weapon systems and ships.
And because of all of those reasons, i can for sure say that CCP knows those reasons to. And what does that mean?. Yes it means it will never happen with the current pvp / combat mechanics. Yes maybe in the future one time when the PVP mechanics have been changed, then this boost might actually be needed. Who knows.
The only solution is to make Blaster ships to hit the targets faster in some ways. Also when you jump into a system and are going to attack one, then i mean that you can lock the target and then just shoot and hit the ships faster than you can do now. Now you have to MWD a little to be able to hit the targets.
And the only solution to that is to change Null ammo a bit.
But like someone else here also told, Blasters is not the weapon that really should hit at med ranges anyways.
Blasters with Null ammo can already hit up to 30 km, so i see no problems to change some few things with the Null ammo so they get a bit better up to 30 km. Like removing some of the tracking penalties.
I think we all can agree that it's much much better to just change one ammo type instead of changing one whole weapon type that can mess up lots of things.
So if there is a boost to Gallente BS'es with Blasters i will support, then i support any changes to Null ammo as long they don't get to good.
Originally by: Hepren D'narr
I find that sentence quite funny. Even Bellum Eternus thinks blasters require big boost at their DPS.
He was bitten by the FOTM noobs, so he can whine all he want. We don't care about what rubbish the FOTM chasers have to tell about how awesome their EFT is.
Oh by the way. Hepren D'narr. You don't understand how Blasters works, so is it any suprise that you don't see the reasons i have told about basicly everything that have with Blasters to do?.
So you can whine all you want dude.
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Hepren D'narr
Gallente
Downfall inc.
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Posted - 2009.03.18 20:44:00 -
[829]
Originally by: Takeshi Yamato
Quote:
I find that sentence quite funny. Even Bellum Eternus thinks blasters require big boost at their DPS.
Blaster damage boost at all levels? Frigate blasters are more than fine.
BS Blasters only; this discussion has mainly been about BS size Blasters.
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Childstar
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Posted - 2009.03.18 20:50:00 -
[830]
Originally by: Takeshi Yamato
Quote:
I find that sentence quite funny. Even Bellum Eternus thinks blasters require big boost at their DPS.
Blaster damage boost at all levels? Frigate blasters are more than fine.
Its blaster BS that have the problem, the smaller classes at least have a reasonable amount of available targets if they are flown correctly.
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Fistme
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Posted - 2009.03.18 20:57:00 -
[831]
Originally by: Hepren D'narr
BS Blasters only; this discussion has mainly been about BS size Blasters.
Now I agree with this to a point however there are a few issues in the med blaster department. Both the Deimose and the Astarte are specialized ships designed to work at a range where their ehp and cap limitations make it near suicide. The issue is that if you boost medium blasters you boost a whole slew of ships that arguably don't need a boost at all, Thorax, Vexor, and the Brutix.
Understanding that it may be the Deimos and the Astarte themselves the pose the issue, not the medium blasters. A detailed look at their proposed role and potential boost to Falloff Bonus would be a fantastic improvment w/o messing up the balance that has already been achieved more or less at the t1 Cruiser lvl.
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Childstar
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Posted - 2009.03.18 20:58:00 -
[832]
Edited by: Childstar on 18/03/2009 21:03:39
Hi nightmare...
Originally by: Electric Universe
maralt, Mag's and Childstar, no matter what kind of idiotic crying / whining or trolling your doing.
Oh the irony...
Originally by: Electric Universe
I have given like 1000 reasons and have given good examples on why Blasters does NOT need a boost now. And also why such boost to Blasters would make WAAAAAAAY more problems that it fixes.
You have given 1 crappy reason that has no real advantage in gang combat.
Originally by: Electric Universe
I think we all can agree that it's much much better to just change one ammo type instead of changing one whole weapon type that can mess up lots of things.
Guns are useless without ammo, ammo is useless without guns and both are useless without a ship.
How the fix is done is not important (to anybody but you it seems) as long as it is done correctly.
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Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
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Posted - 2009.03.18 21:13:00 -
[833]
Edited by: Electric Universe on 18/03/2009 21:13:56
Originally by: Childstar
Edited by: Childstar on 18/03/2009 21:03:39
Hi nightmare...
Originally by: Electric Universe
maralt, Mag's and Childstar, no matter what kind of idiotic crying / whining or trolling your doing.
Oh the irony...
Originally by: Electric Universe
I have given like 1000 reasons and have given good examples on why Blasters does NOT need a boost now. And also why such boost to Blasters would make WAAAAAAAY more problems that it fixes.
You have given 1 crappy reason that has no real advantage in gang combat.
Originally by: Electric Universe
I think we all can agree that it's much much better to just change one ammo type instead of changing one whole weapon type that can mess up lots of things.
Guns are useless without ammo, ammo is useless without guns and both are useless without a ship.
How the fix is done is not important (to anybody but you it seems) as long as it is done correctly.
To the first thing. Hi Child.
To your 2nd thing. It was not irony, it was the truth.
3rd thing. I have given many many reasons here, but you all just ignore it because your in another dream world and don't use the Megathron or Blasters like they are meant to be used.
So, the reasons i gave about resists, Laser damage (EM & Thermal) is the crappiest damages to do on armor, the one RR you can have on a Megathron that helps alot in a gang fight, the DPS advantage Blasters have over lasers at 5 km etc etc.
This doesn't belong into a gang combat?. Don't tell me you don't take this into a gang combat.
And the things about the other problems such boost to Blaster will make, like i also have given reasons on many many times, that you most likely have ignored to. It will make 54687489657498 times more problems than it will fix. So i would not do it now.
And to your last thing. As long the T2 ammos can be fixed so they don't get better than faction ammo, then i'm happy whatever the changes is.
Changing the T2 ammo is the best and the only possible solution at the current time.
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Koloch
Amarr
Warriors Lost
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Posted - 2009.03.18 21:17:00 -
[834]
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: Koloch
Man I'm getting tired of people saying this. I spend a lot of spare time looking at other corporation's killboards. Players still use blasterships and if anything there are usually in higher use. This over exageration is really getting tiresome.
Even with perfect gunnery and ship tertiary skills it takes a while to train up T2 pulse plus amaar BS 5 ect. I have only just finished it myself although i did beams while i was at it as well.
Do not confuse the fact that ppl HAVE to fly blaster BS in gangs because they do not have anything else trained, with blaster BS being a good gang ship.
I'm not confusing anything. People fly blaster boats because they do their job well....and the comment was "nobody flies blaster boats because they suck" is complete bull****.
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Koloch
Amarr
Warriors Lost
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Posted - 2009.03.18 21:25:00 -
[835]
Originally by: maralt
You do not need to point out how laser BS range gives them such a huge advantage in available "range tanking" as well as a much greater survivability in gang combat due to working very well outside point range.
Compared to blaster BS that not only need to operate within point range but web range as well....and the optimal of every ship in the oposing gang....
Nice bend of what I said. Actually blaster boats are the ships with the mwd fitted.
So in your case blaster boat would mwd to 24km scram and continue to mwd to target. In your example the Amarr ship has ~10 sec to kill the blaster boat before the blaster boat is under the Amarrs tracking and the Amarr ship (again in your example) does 0 damage. Blaster boat picks the engagments and wins 100% of the time.
sounds very overpowered.
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Childstar
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Posted - 2009.03.18 21:28:00 -
[836]
Originally by: Electric Universe
3rd thing. I have given many many reasons here, but you all just ignore it because your in another dream world and don't use the Megathron or Blasters like they are meant to be used.
You say that a lot but you never give a explanation.
Originally by: Electric Universe
So, the reasons i gave about resists, Laser damage (EM & Thermal) is the crappiest damages to do on armor, the one RR you can have on a Megathron that helps alot in a gang fight, the DPS advantage Blasters have over lasers at 5 km etc etc.
So 2 reasons then not 1000 (30% more dmg at 4.5km and RR) unless you consider that the hyperion and geddon are available then you are down to 1 reason...
Only 9998/9 reasons to go and you will be at your 1000...
Originally by: Electric Universe
This doesn't belong into a gang combat?. Don't tell me you don't take this into a gang combat.
Some of the things on here do come up in gang combat now you mention it.
Mostly that you do not normally primary the abaddon cos it has the highest EHP and is normally one of the ships farthest away and as such needs approaching by ships with less range....
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Chi Quan
Perkone
|
Posted - 2009.03.18 21:29:00 -
[837]
speaking of large blasters needing a look into and following the trend "the bigger the blaster the more broken it is", how about xLarge blasters, the ion siege cannons?
----
Ceterum censeo blasters need some tracking love |
maralt
Minmatar
The seers of truth
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Posted - 2009.03.18 21:39:00 -
[838]
Edited by: maralt on 18/03/2009 21:41:21
Originally by: Koloch
Originally by: maralt
You do not need to point out how laser BS range gives them such a huge advantage in available "range tanking" as well as a much greater survivability in gang combat due to working very well outside point range.
Compared to blaster BS that not only need to operate within point range but web range as well....and the optimal of every ship in the oposing gang....
Nice bend of what I said. Actually blaster boats are the ships with the mwd fitted.
So in your case blaster boat would mwd to 24km scram and continue to mwd to target. In your example the Amarr ship has ~10 sec to kill the blaster boat before the blaster boat is under the Amarrs tracking and the Amarr ship (again in your example) does 0 damage. Blaster boat picks the engagments and wins 100% of the time.
sounds very overpowered.
Its not a bend its a fact, laser ships not only have the option of range as a tank and escape option but also greater ehp. While blasters NEED to be in point and web range but have much weaker tanks.
Anyway now you have a incling of how it feels in gang cobat when you are in a mega and you need to burn towards another gang doing zero or hardly any dmg while getting pounded. Still even with a big tracking nerf lasers would still hit BS more at close range than blasters hit BS at mid range.
But as i said its just a example of how saying a system should not hit reasonably well towards a certain range because it is classified as being of another range is stupid.
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The Djego
Minmatar
merovinger inc
|
Posted - 2009.03.18 22:02:00 -
[839]
Originally by: Koloch
Originally by: The Djego
B: When did you used a Blaster ship the last time and stated I won because I have flown a Blaster Ship?
A: Nobody flyes Blaster ships this days, so how knows? I heard they are good Gang Damagedealers.
Man I'm getting tired of people saying this. I spend a lot of spare time looking at other corporation's killboards. Players still use blasterships and if anything there are usually in higher use. This over exageration is really getting tiresome.
It is more like a joke about so many people that don¦t actualy fly Blaster Ships tell you they are superior gang Damage dealers or superior solo Ships.
Heimatar(the area where I normaly stick around) was actualy quite Blaster heavy, many people flown them. You see many of this guyes now in other ships. You see Blaster Ships mostly in small Gangs now, not because they are extrem good there, but because it at least negates the tracking/range Problems, while having more tackle avaidalbe.
How about you tell us how successfull you are with your Blasterships since QR, o wait just another Alt in a Blaster Thread nvm.
----
Nerf Tank - Boost Gank!
Originally by: Amantus
Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
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Mag's
the united
Negative Ten.
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Posted - 2009.03.18 22:10:00 -
[840]
Originally by: Electric Universe
maralt, Mag's and Childstar, no matter what kind of idiotic crying / whining or trolling your doing, it's not gonna prove ANYTHING that Blasters need to be boosted.
Back with the personal insults I see, when someone disagrees with you.
You've lost all credibility NightmareX.
Originally by: Electric Universe
I have given like 1000 reasons and have given good examples on why Blasters does NOT need a boost now. And also why such boost to Blasters would make WAAAAAAAY more problems that it fixes.
Really? Well if that's true, there have been as many, if not more reasons for a boost.
Originally by: Electric Universe
Oh by the way. Hepren D'narr. You don't understand how Blasters works, so is it any suprise that you don't see the reasons i have told about basicly everything that have with Blasters to do?.
So whine all you can bud.
You don't use Blasters on TQ, so it's no surprise you don't understand the issues.
I'm not going to reply to any more of your posts, you throw too many personal insults at people.
I'm sure you'll throw one at me. Have fun on sisi.
Regards
Mag's |
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Fistme
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Posted - 2009.03.18 22:12:00 -
[841]
Another solution could be to introduce fall off scripts to tracking comps. Mega or hype could choose to drop a portion of it's tackle (soloability) in favor of longer falloff allowing it to be more effective in gang warfare.
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Koloch
Amarr
|
Posted - 2009.03.18 22:25:00 -
[842]
Originally by: The Djego
Originally by: Koloch
Originally by: The Djego
B: When did you used a Blaster ship the last time and stated I won because I have flown a Blaster Ship?
A: Nobody flyes Blaster ships this days, so how knows? I heard they are good Gang Damagedealers.
Man I'm getting tired of people saying this. I spend a lot of spare time looking at other corporation's killboards. Players still use blasterships and if anything there are usually in higher use. This over exageration is really getting tiresome.
It is more like a joke about so many people that don¦t actualy fly Blaster Ships tell you they are superior gang Damage dealers or superior solo Ships.
Heimatar(the area where I normaly stick around) was actualy quite Blaster heavy, many people flown them. You see many of this guyes now in other ships. You see Blaster Ships mostly in small Gangs now, not because they are extrem good there, but because it at least negates the tracking/range Problems, while having more tackle avaidalbe.
How about you tell us how successfull you are with your Blasterships since QR, o wait just another Alt in a Blaster Thread nvm.
Nope I'm not going to fall for that troll. No matter how you spin it your comment that no one is flying blaster ships is bull****. I don't need to post my killmails and beat my chest. Look at any solid pvp corporations killboards and you will see a lot of blaster boats being used. You will see a lot of gallente ships period.
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Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
|
Posted - 2009.03.18 22:38:00 -
[843]
Edited by: Electric Universe on 18/03/2009 22:44:20
Originally by: Koloch
Nope I'm not going to fall for that troll. No matter how you spin it your comment that no one is flying blaster ships is bull****. I don't need to post my killmails and beat my chest. Look at any solid pvp corporations killboards and you will see a lot of blaster boats being used. You will see a lot of gallente ships period.
Exactly, this is one of the things i have been saying many times here to.
Blaster Megathrons are quite popular now, no matter what the cyrbabies here says.
And when they are used quite alot, i don't think Blasters have any problems or any problems that makes the ship with Blaster any poorer than an Abaddon.
And Mags, do you think i'm more NightmareX only because one whiner like you says so?.
When you can't explan all of the things i have been saying here in this topic, then it's not hard to understand why you just want to ignore me. Maybe you can just start to explain things instead of just ignoring the facts?.
And yeh, do you really know why peoples like me argue so much with you about this?, simply because you don't understand how Blasters work. It's not hard to see it the last 6-7 pages.
When you can give some good and nice explanations on how small / med scale PVP works and how both a Megathron with Blaster and an Abaddon with Pulses works, then i'm gonna accept you more.
But before that happens, whine all you want.
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The Djego
Minmatar
merovinger inc
|
Posted - 2009.03.18 22:38:00 -
[844]
Originally by: Fistme
Another solution could be to introduce fall off scripts to tracking comps. Mega or hype could choose to drop a portion of it's tackle (soloability) in favor of longer falloff allowing it to be more effective in gang warfare.
Thats would be actual quite nice for Minmatar and Aks. But fixing Falloff(or better Damage scaling in Falloff) at itself would be the fare better solution in the end.
The Megas and Hyperions gang role stand and fall on how serius you outdamage other ships at optimal range(and it scales preaty badly for a reason). It is actualy not about making Blaster ships better gang ships, this role is allready given to Amarr/Caldari and im fine with it.
The penalty is short range, what is ok as long as it results in advantages once you force the other ship to your range. A Blaster ship should not be superior in gangs(beside very very small ones) to a Amarr or Caldari ship(what is the case atm), diffrent to now it should outdo this ships solo and in this very very small gangs by a amount that compensates for lower EHP, range disadvantages and nuking your Cap with Neuts, MWD, Turrets or even a active tank.
----
Nerf Tank - Boost Gank!
Originally by: Amantus
Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
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The Djego
Minmatar
merovinger inc
|
Posted - 2009.03.18 22:40:00 -
[845]
Originally by: Koloch
Nope I'm not going to fall for that troll. No matter how you spin it your comment that no one is flying blaster ships is bull****. I don't need to post my killmails and beat my chest. Look at any solid pvp corporations killboards and you will see a lot of blaster boats being used. You will see a lot of gallente ships period.
So no own experience with Blasterships, no own kills, just trolling Blaster Threads?
----
Nerf Tank - Boost Gank!
Originally by: Amantus
Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
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Childstar
|
Posted - 2009.03.18 22:47:00 -
[846]
Edited by: Childstar on 18/03/2009 22:55:33
Originally by: Koloch
Nope I'm not going to fall for that troll. No matter how you spin it your comment that no one is flying blaster ships is bull****. I don't need to post my killmails and beat my chest. Look at any solid pvp corporations killboards and you will see a lot of blaster boats being used. You will see a lot of gallente ships period.
While i think the comment was either poorly chosen or poorly phrased it does not change the fact that the reason that those blaster Battle ships are being flown is because the pilots using them cannot fly anything else.....yet.
And it is also undenyable that blaster BS have not moved with the times and been left in limbo as far as effectivness is concerned for the only real pvp available for BS now...gang combat. And as such blaster BS are being flown less as more people migrate to other classes of ships or even train other races.
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Koloch
Amarr
|
Posted - 2009.03.18 23:13:00 -
[847]
Originally by: The Djego
Originally by: Koloch
Nope I'm not going to fall for that troll. No matter how you spin it your comment that no one is flying blaster ships is bull****. I don't need to post my killmails and beat my chest. Look at any solid pvp corporations killboards and you will see a lot of blaster boats being used. You will see a lot of gallente ships period.
So no own experience with Blasterships, no own kills, just trolling Blaster Threads?
Just because I don't agree with you doesn't mean I'm trolling.
First find the meaning of troll, then look up debate.
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Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
|
Posted - 2009.03.18 23:15:00 -
[848]
Edited by: Electric Universe on 18/03/2009 23:16:16
Originally by: Childstar
Edited by: Childstar on 18/03/2009 22:55:33
Originally by: Koloch
Nope I'm not going to fall for that troll. No matter how you spin it your comment that no one is flying blaster ships is bull****. I don't need to post my killmails and beat my chest. Look at any solid pvp corporations killboards and you will see a lot of blaster boats being used. You will see a lot of gallente ships period.
While i think the comment was either poorly chosen or poorly phrased it does not change the fact that the reason that those blaster Battle ships are being flown is because the pilots using them cannot fly anything else.....yet.
And it is also undenyable that blaster BS have not moved with the times and been left in limbo as far as effectivness is concerned for the only real pvp available for BS now...gang combat. And as such blaster BS are being flown less as more people migrate to other classes of ships or even train other races.
To you first thing. That's a lie.
To you 2nd thing. You talk about guns that haven't moved with the times and have been left in limbo. I think we should look at Autocannons here then.
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Koloch
Amarr
|
Posted - 2009.03.18 23:24:00 -
[849]
Originally by: Childstar
Edited by: Childstar on 18/03/2009 22:55:33
Originally by: Koloch
Nope I'm not going to fall for that troll. No matter how you spin it your comment that no one is flying blaster ships is bull****. I don't need to post my killmails and beat my chest. Look at any solid pvp corporations killboards and you will see a lot of blaster boats being used. You will see a lot of gallente ships period.
While i think the comment was either poorly chosen or poorly phrased it does not change the fact that the reason that those blaster Battle ships are being flown is because the pilots using them cannot fly anything else.....yet.
Maybe in some cases, but how can you say *ALL of them can't fly anything else? I think that's a pretty big assumption.
Why don't they fly something below Battleship level. We can certainly assume that if they have the skills to fly a Battleship they can fly a cruiser and more than likely for that matter the t2 variations. Many blaster pilots in this thread have stated blasters below BS are well balanced. Why don't these blaster pilots then fly these ships that apparently perform a lot better instead of bs blasters?
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Childstar
|
Posted - 2009.03.18 23:30:00 -
[850]
Originally by: Electric Universe
To you first thing. That's a lie.
Its not a lie as i know a hell of a lot of gallente pilots who are now either flying a differant class of ship in other kinds of pvp and only fly blaster BS in gangs reluctantly.
I also know that a lot of those pilots are cross training to fly amarr, but i know nobody who flies amarr that is cross training to fly gallente or any other race for that matter apart from maybe a falcon.
Originally by: Electric Universe
To you 2nd thing. You talk about guns that haven't moved with the times and have been left in limbo. I think we should look at Autocannons here then.
Thats easy, you just stop trolling this thread and select "new topic" from the ships and modules page.
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The Djego
Minmatar
merovinger inc
|
Posted - 2009.03.18 23:34:00 -
[851]
Edited by: The Djego on 18/03/2009 23:34:46
Originally by: Koloch
Originally by: The Djego
Originally by: Koloch
Nope I'm not going to fall for that troll. No matter how you spin it your comment that no one is flying blaster ships is bull****. I don't need to post my killmails and beat my chest. Look at any solid pvp corporations killboards and you will see a lot of blaster boats being used. You will see a lot of gallente ships period.
So no own experience with Blasterships, no own kills, just trolling Blaster Threads?
Just because I don't agree with you doesn't mean I'm trolling.
First find the meaning of troll, then look up debate.
1. Adding nothing to the discussion.
2. Disagreeing other people without beeing able to correcting them.
4. Relaying fully on other people things because you are unable of bringing own points.
5. Posting with a Alt.
It¦t not the fact of disagreeing, it is the fact you lacking any own points, lacking any proveable background what makes your opinion considerable and still you try other people to respond on your post specific by asking qestions, or more like tasks to disaprove/searching for facts that disaprove something that isn¦t actualy a fact.
That isn¦t a discussion that is trolling. I realy lack any kind of idea why people constantly have to troll ballancing threads, I mean we got C&P or COAD for a reason, didn¦t we?
----
Nerf Tank - Boost Gank!
Originally by: Amantus
Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
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Childstar
|
Posted - 2009.03.18 23:35:00 -
[852]
Originally by: Koloch
Maybe in some cases, but how can you say *ALL of them can't fly anything else? I think that's a pretty big assumption.
Why don't they fly something below Battleship level. We can certainly assume that if they have the skills to fly a Battleship they can fly a cruiser and more than likely for that matter the t2 variations. Many blaster pilots in this thread have stated blasters below BS are well balanced. Why don't these blaster pilots then fly these ships that apparently perform a lot better instead of bs blasters?
Some do, i know i flew the ishtar amoung other ships while i was finishing my amarr training, but the smaller classes of gallente ships are not any use in BS gangs.
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Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
|
Posted - 2009.03.18 23:41:00 -
[853]
Edited by: Electric Universe on 18/03/2009 23:44:17
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: Electric Universe
To you first thing. That's a lie.
Its not a lie as i know a hell of a lot of gallente pilots who are now either flying a differant class of ship in other kinds of pvp and only fly blaster BS in gangs reluctantly.
I also know that a lot of those pilots are cross training to fly amarr, but i know nobody who flies amarr that is cross training to fly gallente or any other race for that matter apart from maybe a falcon.
Originally by: Electric Universe
To you 2nd thing. You talk about guns that haven't moved with the times and have been left in limbo. I think we should look at Autocannons here then.
Thats easy, you just stop trolling this thread and select "new topic" from the ships and modules page.
Do you know why they are training other races?, maybe because they need something new to train when they have maxed the skills on one race.
And no, i don't need to make a new topic only because i sad that Autocannons is in a need of a boost way way way before Blasters.
This topic is about every races and every ships. The OP asked for recommendation on other ships or races to fly.
And yeah, just because of the epic whines here. I will never train for anything that have with Amarr to do. I don't want ANYTHING to do with something that have with FOTM to do. Even if i had maxed the 3 other races up to Marauders.
After that, i will start on Carriers, Dreads and maybe Motherships to for the 3 races i have been training.
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Childstar
|
Posted - 2009.03.18 23:52:00 -
[854]
Originally by: Electric Universe
Do you know why they are training other races?, maybe because they need something new to train when they have maxed the skills on one race.
Some have high SP and maybe a very few have completed training gallente but a lot more do not have maxed skills and are switching as training gallente BS is just not worth it.
Originally by: Electric Universe
I will never train for anything that have with Amarr to do. I don't want ANYTHING to do with something that have with FOTM to do. Even when i have maxed the 3 other races up to Marauders.
If you had any idea about any of the marauders you would not bother training for them.
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Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
|
Posted - 2009.03.18 23:57:00 -
[855]
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: Electric Universe
Do you know why they are training other races?, maybe because they need something new to train when they have maxed the skills on one race.
Some have high SP and maybe a very few have completed training gallente but a lot more do not have maxed skills and are switching as training gallente BS is just not worth it.
Originally by: Electric Universe
I will never train for anything that have with Amarr to do. I don't want ANYTHING to do with something that have with FOTM to do. Even when i have maxed the 3 other races up to Marauders.
If you had any idea about any of the marauders you would not bother training for them.
I train whatever i might find usefull now or later.
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Koloch
Amarr
|
Posted - 2009.03.19 00:00:00 -
[856]
Originally by: Koloch
Just because I don't agree with you doesn't mean I'm trolling.
First find the meaning of troll, then look up debate.
Originally by: The Djego
1. Adding nothing to the discussion.
2. Disagreeing other people without beeing able to correcting them.
4. Relaying fully on other people things because you are unable of bringing own points.
5. Posting with a Alt.
It¦t not the fact of disagreeing, it is the fact you lacking any own points, lacking any proveable background what makes your opinion considerable and still you try other people to respond on your post specific by asking qestions, or more like tasks to disaprove/searching for facts that disaprove something that isn¦t actualy a fact.
That isn¦t a discussion that is trolling. I realy lack any kind of idea why people constantly have to troll ballancing threads, I mean we got C&P or CAOD for a reason, didn¦t we?
Because you obviously don't know the meaning of troll;
Troll;
Act of appearing on internet forums and boards with malicious intent. Trolling includes...
-batting people to flame at you
-putting the forum down and encouraging people to leave.
-flaming
-spamming
-using several identities on a board to support your own arguments / stage pretend arguments
I have done none of this. If you make a statement that isn't correct I have every right to correct it. That isn't trolling. I am also allowed to post my opinion from the other side. a)I have fought blaster ships b) I fly with people that fly blaster ships and c) I actually do fly blaster ships.
What's up with this elitist attitude that only people that fly blaster boats are allowed to post in blaster balancing threads - what an utter load of crap. If I'm proven wrong on a statement I'II admit it, but telling me I'm not allowed to post in this thread or that I have no experience to post is bull.
Actually if we step back your reply to my valid post is more of a troll than mine.
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The Djego
Minmatar
merovinger inc
|
Posted - 2009.03.19 01:00:00 -
[857]
Edited by: The Djego on 19/03/2009 01:02:07
Originally by: Koloch
Because you obviously don't know the meaning of troll;
Troll;
Act of appearing on internet forums and boards with malicious intent. Trolling includes...
-batting people to flame at you
-putting the forum down and encouraging people to leave.
-flaming
-spamming
-using several identities on a board to support your own arguments / stage pretend arguments
I have done none of this. If you make a statement that isn't correct I have every right to correct it. That isn't trolling. I am also allowed to post my opinion from the other side. a)I have fought blaster ships b) I fly with people that fly blaster ships and c) I actually do fly blaster ships.
There are zero comment that proves A, B or C in this thread, I might actualy not care about how your main is, because it dosn¦t matter. If people have some point they post them instead of diskussing why the post with alts about points that arn¦t there own.
Originally by: Koloch
What's up with this elitist attitude that only people that fly blaster boats are allowed to post in blaster balancing threads - what an utter load of crap. If I'm proven wrong on a statement I'II admit it, but telling me I'm not allowed to post in this thread or that I have no experience to post is bull.
Fly a Blaster Ship and you know.
Since Blaster ships are this ****ing common on general PVP atm everybody must be on the dooing or reciving end, or do you admit you are wrong and the Blaster ship is actualy a vents toy that is heaviely outdated and actualy not very common in todays PVP?
Originally by: Koloch
Actually if we step back your reply to my valid post is more of a troll than mine.
Meta-discussion anyone?
Originally by: Koloch
If someone makes a statement that I think is a bit bogus and I ask a question. Answering it back with "**** off alt" is trolling. There are some here that actually answer back...and in some cases with some valid arguments. Which is awesome. It's all about having a discussion.
I still stand your point that nobody flies blaster boats anymore is a giant stretch.
Getting flamed for altposting -> post with your main(at least a solution for anybody that isn¦t trolling).
The simple reason 95% of the people posting here point on EFT numbers/repeeting statements of other people instead of real ingame PVP engagements should show anybody a preaty clear picture how many people here actualy fly the Ships atm and how many posting here without flying them.
I personaly couldn¦t care less about you and all the other people spaming this treads. What I realy care are discussions about Blaster ships and how EFT data and fancy graphs don¦t meet ingame experience(like this one 1 page ago with Marn about how and why some numbers don¦t work out on TQ this well) or discussions with other Blaster Vents that could look me straight in the eye and say Blasters are ok.
----
Nerf Tank - Boost Gank!
Originally by: Amantus
Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
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Koloch
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.03.19 01:24:00 -
[858]
Originally by: The Djego
stuff...
well if you care so much about not trolling then how about we get back to the discussion that you derailed.
...and lets try to keep to reality. If you're going to make a bold statement that nobody flies blaster boats anymore lets see the proof. As I stated it takes 10 minutes to find a killboard and step through the most recent kills/losses. Like my previous statement this data proves you wrong. Now maybe it's for other reasons, but the fact remains people still use them.
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Goumindong
Amarr
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.03.19 02:56:00 -
[859]
Originally by: Hepren D'narr
I find that sentence quite funny. Even Bellum Eternus thinks blasters require big boost at their DPS.
I find this sentence to be quite funny. Bellum Eternus has been arguing for blaster buffs for as long as he has been playing the game. He has never not supported buffing blasters. He is the quintessential self interested whiner.
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Valadeya uthanaras
Corp 1 Allstars
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Posted - 2009.03.19 03:04:00 -
[860]
Originally by: Hepren D'narr
Hey, you could atleast try to explain us WHY it would make eve pvp so unbalanced you make it sound. It's not like everybody surprisingly and immediality would start to use Gallente BS's in gangs, instead of, say, Amarr ones? They would still lack the range, like they should, but atleast some of those changes Valadeya suggested, would make them more the way they are supposed to be.
Still, personally I suggest big boost for DPS. Keep the range and tracking as same, but blasters are lacking DPS right now.
Thanks for the positive comment
but comming back on what I said , I didnt ask for all of them to be put at the same time , but I am more asking for them to be tested then evaluated , because each of them , I my opinion , goes toward the blaster style of combat.
I Didnt forget that , in most ship class , gallente also have a huge drone bay to back these blaster up and any "massive boost" to them would indeed make them quite umbalance, but atm they are defenatly not good enought
Val
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JadeMako
Aliastra
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Posted - 2009.03.19 09:48:00 -
[861]
Originally by: Goumindong
He is the quintessential self interested whiner.
WARNING!! Irony overload!!! |
maralt
Minmatar
The seers of truth
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Posted - 2009.03.19 10:22:00 -
[862]
Originally by: JadeMako
Originally by: Goumindong
He is the quintessential self interested whiner.
WARNING!! Irony overload!!!
/Signed
The forums really should have some sort of filter against such high levels..
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Childstar
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Posted - 2009.03.19 12:02:00 -
[863]
Edited by: Childstar on 19/03/2009 12:30:04
Originally by: Valadeya uthanaras
I my opinion , goes toward the blaster style of combat.
Considering they are the ships that need to spend all their time either getting well inside and or being well inside point and web range to even get close to their optimal ranges, blaster BS are severely lacking in one way or another as far as speed, dmg/range ratio and tank is concerned.
Here is how i see how it was and now is..
(Insert swirly memory thingy)
Before the web and other changes battle ships had their short comings somewhat mitigated by the fact that they could web ships of the same class easily enough but also stand a chance against smaller ships to such a extent that they could hit and drive them off or maybe even kill them if the BS pilots flew/used their ships correctly and well.
Now this applied to most BS and especially blaster BS as their optimal operational range is well inside web range and as such they relied on making ships like BC and other BS stay in their tiny optimal, and even smaller ships inside that range slow enough to hit now and again and even standing a small chance of holding those long enough to kill them.
Blaster BS were still considered poor by comparision to lasers ect in gang combat due to a distinct lack of range amoung other things but at the very least a role could be found for them as reasonably effective solo and 2-3 ship gangs as they had a adequatly sized target selection and a reasonable chance to tackle those targets long enough to kill them if they flew well and worked as a team.
Then eve changed.
(more swirly stuffs)
Now this is not a assignment of blame or a point of a finger just a statment of the facts.
Eve changed and it was decided that each class/size of ship/system should only be fully effective against a simular class/size and less effective but have the possability of hitting the class/size immediatly below. Many ways were discussed on how to achieve this goal including tracking reduction to drones and gunnery systems along with a reduction in the effect of webs and a adjustment to ship speed and inertia/accelleration all to coincide with the removal of nano.
Eventually the idea and the adjustments it needed to work were implemented and the next era in eve combat was born as ppl tested various setups and adjusted their ship choices, styles and fittings to suit the new mechanics.
Now for battleships that were already highly effective in gang combat like laser BS the game changed for the better because with the removal of nano (that came along just after they recieved a rather nice tracking increase) close range gang combat in BS was on the rise as a regular and very available form of pvp and they were head and shoulders above the other races at it.
For blaster BS however it was a differant story as they were still as poor at gang combat as before due to lacking range, needing to mwd a lot to do any real damage against multiple targets and having poor EHP considering they work almost exclusivly within the web, point and optimal range of any hostile gang they face.
The web reduction along with other things reduced their available solo target selection to a tiny fraction, consisting of ships that are slower after module/effects on both sides are taken into account, so pretty much only slower BS or those without webs or mwd's. Also in the small 2-3 man teams they also lost the ability to stand a chance of defending themselves against a squad of small ships even slightly effectivly.
When all things considered like how the game is today, how the availability and ability of combat for battleships in general was deliberatly changed/reduced and how much those changes have effected blaster BS i do not think that modernizing blaster BS (and other BS/systems that may need it) so they are a bit more effective in the only type of combat that is now available for them is wrong.
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Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
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Posted - 2009.03.19 13:17:00 -
[864]
Edited by: Electric Universe on 19/03/2009 13:20:12
Child, even if you gave a somewhat of an explanation, it still doesn't make your reasons that a Blaster BS any poorer than any other BS'es in a gang combat.
You forget soooooo many things that have to do with gang combat.
You forget the resists to EM and Thermal for example, you forget the one RR a Mega can have, to rep each others, that actually can make up for the extra EHP the Abaddon have. You forgot to tell how much more agile a Mega is than any of the Amarr BS'es is. You also forgot that MWDing 25-30 km in a Mega doesn't take many seconds. You forget that the web nerf was hitting every ships that use a webber.
You forgot that Laser BS'es use waaaaaaaaaaaay more cap than a Blaster Mega does. You also forget to say that when a Mega is in your web range, or around 3-5 km and orbiting you, you will have hard time to hit him any good, because of the tracking on Lasers (not that this have so much with gang combat to do, but still, if that happens then.....). And you also forgot to take the advantages each weapons have over the other weapons etc etc.
You just looks at the EFT stats and says wow, the Abaddon have some better stats than the Mega, so the Mega must sucks.
When you realize that those points over as i have said now, is some VERY valid points in gang combats, then we can start to accept each others more.
But before that happens. I'm not gonna get bitten by the players who only looks at the EFT stats and goes crazy over it.
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Cohkka
Celestial Apocalypse
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Posted - 2009.03.19 13:48:00 -
[865]
I don't know how many Blasterships are flown these days as there aren't any numbers to prove it. All I know is that for any resonable sized gang (6-8 BS and up) a Railfitted Mega does the job way better than a Blaster one. Now considering Rails do 30% less damage than Scorch MPs with less range and tracking you can set things in perspective.
Oh, but I know, it's all up to playstyle and... It certainly is, if you're flying along ganksquads that don't intend engaging larger/even numbers (and there are many that will inflate the number of Blasterships flown... and they end up on the killboard of the enemy most of the time) or that hardcore diehard PvPer with gangs that don't exceed the number of 3, or suicide gangs for that matter. Nice niche role...
Don't speak english, just F5, F5, F5... |
Zubakis
Bambooule
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Posted - 2009.03.19 13:56:00 -
[866]
Originally by: Electric Universe
You also forgot that MWDing 25-30 km in a Mega doesn't take many seconds.
R u sure? Try it out how long does it take to move 30km from a full stop. It will be like 30sec.
-- Zuba |
Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
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Posted - 2009.03.19 14:02:00 -
[867]
Originally by: Zubakis
Originally by: Electric Universe
You also forgot that MWDing 25-30 km in a Mega doesn't take many seconds.
R u sure? Try it out how long does it take to move 30km from a full stop. It will be like 30sec.
Yeah, and 30 secs is long time?.
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Cohkka
Celestial Apocalypse
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Posted - 2009.03.19 14:02:00 -
[868]
Originally by: Electric Universe
Those things over, like with the RR you can use on the Megathron and because they have such good DPS at 5 km range is just 2 examples on why a Blaster Megathron is so popular in gang combats today.
Prove or STFU. Your own ally mate invited you to join their gangs from time to time, why is it they don't fly Blasterships?
And as for RR on a Blastermega... lol, you're certainly THE instance to talk to when it comes to gang combat dynamics.
Don't speak english, just F5, F5, F5... |
Zubakis
Bambooule
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Posted - 2009.03.19 14:04:00 -
[869]
Originally by: Electric Universe
Originally by: Zubakis
Originally by: Electric Universe
You also forgot that MWDing 25-30 km in a Mega doesn't take many seconds.
R u sure? Try it out how long does it take to move 30km from a full stop. It will be like 30sec.
Yeah, and 30 secs is long time?.
If it's not long, then u probably dont have a clue what are you talking about.
-- Zuba |
Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
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Posted - 2009.03.19 14:05:00 -
[870]
Originally by: Cohkka
Originally by: Electric Universe
Those things over, like with the RR you can use on the Megathron and because they have such good DPS at 5 km range is just 2 examples on why a Blaster Megathron is so popular in gang combats today.
Prove or STFU. Your own ally mate invited you to join their gangs from time to time, why is it they don't fly Blasterships?
And as for RR on a Blastermega... lol, you're certainly THE instance to talk to when it comes to gang combat dynamics.
My own ally mate?, i'm not even in an alliance dude.
I have nothing to do with that alliance in any ways.
And after i did take a look at their killboard, it's no suprise that they don't use a Blaster Mega much. It's because of their play style. What i did see was that they use frigs, HAC's Racon's and sniper ships alot.
You know, not every alliances have the same play style, right?.
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Hell'n
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Posted - 2009.03.19 14:12:00 -
[871]
Edited by: Hell''n on 19/03/2009 14:12:03
Is Electric Universe, actually NightmareX using an alt?
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Childstar
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Posted - 2009.03.19 14:13:00 -
[872]
Originally by: Electric Universe
You forget soooooo many things that have to do with gang combat.
You forget the resists to EM and Thermal for example
I did not forget them or anything else i just did not mention them because its all you preach on about.
Originally by: Electric Universe
you forget the one RR a Mega can have, to rep each others, that actually can make up for the extra EHP the Abaddon have.
The mega is not the only blaster ship gallente have nor is the abaddon the only BS amarr have.
Originally by: Electric Universe
You forgot to tell how much more agile a Mega is than any of the Amarr BS'es is. You also forgot that MWDing 25-30 km in a Mega doesn't take many seconds.
A slightly more agile brick is still a brick. As far as mwding is concerned a stationary mega accelerating in a streight line towards another BS even a amarr BS at 0ms that starts burning away from it at the same time would take quite a while to catch it. Even against a stationary target it would take 30+ seconds to travel 25km as the megas goes around 800ms when omni tank fitted.
And that is just to get to the FIRST primary target, it needs to repeat the whole process over and over again for each subsequant target.
Originally by: Electric Universe
You forget that the web nerf was hitting every ships that use a webber.
I did not forget anything as i was discussing the effect the web reduction had on blaster BS and their previous role as a effective solo ship. I did mention that ships that were not suited to solo work but were great in gangs were effected least by the changes especially considering they got a tracking buff just before the changes.
Originally by: Electric Universe
You forgot that Laser BS'es use waaaaaaaaaaaay more cap than a Blaster Mega does.
Thats a poor excuse as not only do both blaster ships and laser ships need to fit a cap injector but the blaster ships need to almost constantly burn their MWD just to get into range.
Originally by: Electric Universe
You also forget to say that when a Mega is in your web range, or around 3-5 km and orbiting you, you will have hard time to hit him any good, because of the tracking on Lasers (not that this have so much with gang combat to do, but still, if that happens then.....).
The tracking between lasers and blasters in BS vs BS gang combat is irrelavant for more reasons than i can be bothered to list as everybody including yourself know them already.
Originally by: Electric Universe
And you also forgot to take the advantages each weapons have over the other weapons etc etc.
No i did not, although you have mentioned them above anyway, but yet still need to post this last line with ect ect at the end????..Whats the problem did you run out of what poor arguments you already had and need to fill out your post by repeating yourself?.
Originally by: Electric Universe
You just looks at the EFT stats and says wow, the Abaddon have some better stats than the Mega, so the Mega must sucks.
When you realize that those points over as i have said now, is some VERY valid points in gang combats.
I did not use EFT stats i use real time abilities of the ships in question and how they regularly and realistically perform in real time pvp situatiuons on TQ.
You are the one using EFT stats and ignoring the reality of gang combat, you use comments on tracking to fill out you post and yet even admit they have no application in gang pvp. You make vague referances to the mega having more agility without applying how it ***uld effect gang combat what so ever (as it does'nt).
Ok you managed to drag out your "poster child" omni resist vs dmg type comment but then that only makes any real differance when applied to very limited numbers against specific tanks and within a absurdly small range.
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Gevic
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Posted - 2009.03.19 14:16:00 -
[873]
Originally by: Electric Universe
Edited by: Electric Universe on 19/03/2009 13:47:58
You forget the resists to EM and Thermal for example, you forget the one RR a Mega can have, to rep each others, that actually can make up for the extra EHP the Abaddon have. You forgot to tell how much more agile a Mega is than any of the Amarr BS'es is. You also forgot that MWDing 25-30 km in a Mega doesn't take many seconds. You forget that the web nerf was hitting every ships that use a webber.
Hybrids damage is kinetic and thermal, with both weapon systems leaning towards thermal as you use higher damage ammo.
Armageddons can pack RRs as well, and I find it to be the superior gang boat in some ways, not to say that the Abaddon doesn't bring its on things to the table. Speaking about how much more agile certain BSes are, which all more or less bricks anyway, is hilarious. Unless you are dealing with 1v1 BS combat (lol) the extra 10%? agility advantage doesn't mean all that much.
MWDing in a Mega requires 54 cap per second with HSM at level 5. Which in off itself equivalent to the Abaddon firing all guns constantly for that duration. Except that the Mega has less cap and less cap recharge. A Mega with an MWD travels at a top speed of 900 some odd m/s. Without plates or trimarks(lol). To reach that top speed requires about 2 cycles of the MWD in of itself. So you are talking about maybe 3 cycles, possibly 4. Which is about 1600-2100 cap. For one target. God help you if you need to MWD for any greater duration after you reach that one. After adding guns, once you reach there, you are going to be hurting for cap. Better start chugging those cap boosters and hope that this engagement is the only one of the day. Or that you have a hauler along with cap boosters.
Quote:
You forgot that Laser BS'es use waaaaaaaaaaaay more cap than a Blaster Mega does. You also forget to say that when a Mega is in your web range, or around 3-5 km and orbiting you, you will have hard time to hit him any good, because of the tracking on Lasers (not that this have so much with gang combat to do, but still, if that happens then.....). And you also forgot to take the advantages each weapons have over the other weapons etc etc.
No, the Abaddon uses more cap than the blaster mega, but makes up for it by having near equal damage, and much better resists and EHP. The geddon and the apoc uses slightly more cap (15 en compared to 13.4). All 3 have better cap recharge and overall cap to boot.
If the Mega is within 3-5 km of you, and you are both in a gang, chances are both of you are going to be webbed to hell. Except that mega would have been taking fire as he approached you. And now he is webbed, and still in your optimals, and most likely the optimals of the rest of your gang. Unless that mega is travelling with other megas, he maybe out extended away from his.
Quote:
Those things over, like with the RR you can use on the Megathron and because they have such good DPS at 5 km range is just 2 examples on why a Blaster Megathron is so popular in gang combats today.
Except that a bunch of geddons can pack together and RR one another, and don't need to worry about having EVERYONE slowboat or even worse MWD to a target just because its distance away is longer than a noselength.
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Theron Gyrow
Gradient
Electus Matari
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Posted - 2009.03.19 14:20:00 -
[874]
Originally by: Electric Universe
Edited by: Electric Universe on 19/03/2009 13:20:12
Child, even if you gave a somewhat of an explanation, it still doesn't make your reasons that a Blaster BS any poorer than any other BS'es in a gang combat.
You forget soooooo many things that have to do with gang combat.
Oh-kay, let's see...
Quote:
You forget the resists to EM and Thermal for example,
Against one reasonably common kind of tank, yes, blaster damage types are better. Advantage blastership.
Quote:
you forget the one RR a Mega can have, to rep each others, that actually can make up for the extra EHP the Abaddon have.
You're claiming that a Blasterthron is a good option for RR gangs? :D (If you want to RR without losing damage, you can use a Geddon. Ok, without AWU5, you have to drop one mega pulse to DHP, but that is not a huge damage loss...)
Quote:
You forgot to tell how much more agile a Mega is than any of the Amarr BS'es is.
6.9% more agile than Geddon, 14.4% more agile than Abaddon. (Minor) advantage for blasterships.
Quote:
You also forgot that MWDing 25-30 km in a Mega doesn't take many seconds.
... you cannot be serious. Getting a dual-plated Mega up to 650m/s already takes 16 seconds (15 s with gang skills). Moving even 15 km takes half a minute.
Quote:
You forget that the web nerf was hitting every ships that use a webber.
It hurts those ships that are designed to fight within web range a whole lot more. Before, they could engage smaller ships and with smart maneuvering, hit them even when they got pretty close. Now they are in the same boat as laser ships have always been - no hitting small stuff.
Quote:
You forgot that Laser BS'es use waaaaaaaaaaaay more cap than a Blaster Mega does.
Blaster BS need a med cap booster to run just their guns, too. With cap booster, all laser ships are cap stable without MWD or RR running. And laser ships don't have to run MWD as much. Non-issue.
Quote:
You also forget to say that when a Mega is in your web range, or around 3-5 km and orbiting you, you will have hard time to hit him any good, because of the tracking on Lasers (not that this have so much with gang combat to do, but still, if that happens then.....).
Then the other ship moves with the Mega minimising transversal. Armageddon is exactly as fast as Megathron while speed mods aren't being used, Abaddon is 23 m/s slower. Good luck generating misses with that.
This is one of the root causes of the imbalance: against similar-sized targets, it is possible to quickly minimise the effect of transversal through maneuvering. Minimising the effect of range takes _ages_. Thus range >> tracking.
Quote:
And you also forgot to take the advantages each weapons have over the other weapons etc etc.
And those would be?
Quote:
You just looks at the EFT stats and says wow, the Abaddon have some better stats than the Mega, so the Mega must sucks.
When you realize that those points over as i have said now, is some VERY valid points in gang combats, then we can start to accept each others more.
But before that happens. I'm not gonna get bitten by the players who only looks at the EFT stats and goes crazy over it.
How about players who have actually flown blaster Megathrons? ... Ew. Yeah, you're correct, you're not going to get bitten.
--
Gradient forum |
Childstar
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Posted - 2009.03.19 14:22:00 -
[875]
Originally by: Zubakis
Originally by: Electric Universe
Originally by: Zubakis
Originally by: Electric Universe
You also forgot that MWDing 25-30 km in a Mega doesn't take many seconds.
R u sure? Try it out how long does it take to move 30km from a full stop. It will be like 30sec.
Yeah, and 30 secs is long time?.
If it's not long, then u probably dont have a clue what are you talking about.
Its a crap tonne more than 30 secs when you factor in the megas top speed of 900ish ms, + acceleration from 0 ms, and mostly the target ship accelerating and burning away (150ish ms slower than the mega) but still a huge factor when mulpilied over distance.
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Goumindong
Amarr
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.03.19 15:41:00 -
[876]
Originally by: Cohkka
I don't know how many Blasterships are flown these days as there aren't any numbers to prove it. All I know is that for any resonable sized gang (6-8 BS and up) a Railfitted Mega does the job way better than a Blaster one. Now considering Rails do 30% less damage than Scorch MPs with less range and tracking you can set things in perspective.
Its actually 6% less against armor tanked battleships(counting shield and structure). And they have more range. Tracking isn't as big a deal in battleship gang combat(and when it is, the laser ships can't hit anyway)
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Goumindong
Amarr
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.03.19 16:03:00 -
[877]
Edited by: Goumindong on 19/03/2009 16:04:42
Originally by: Gevic
Hybrids damage is kinetic and thermal, with both weapon systems leaning towards thermal as you use higher damage ammo.
This is not true. Hybrids are pretty even kin/therm with a slight kin bias on shorter range/higher damage ammo(about 60/40 bias), there is no thermal bias. As you use higher damage ammo on lasers you do add more thermal damage, but you're still at 14/10 EM/therm on MF, which also means there is no thermal bias.
Quote:
Armageddons can pack RRs as well, and I find it to be the superior gang boat in some ways
Its really not a better gang boat(and not much better RR really). It loses everything that laser boats need and gains nothing that keeps them alive.
Quote:
MWDing in a Mega requires 54 cap per second with HSM at level 5. Which in off itself equivalent to the Abaddon firing all guns constantly for that duration. Except that the Mega has less cap and less cap recharge. A Mega with an MWD travels at a top speed of 900 some odd m/s. Without plates or trimarks(lol).
1. The Cap and Cap recharge is more or less irrelevant. You're going to be cap boosting and that is going to smooth that cap use. What will matter however, is that the Abaddon has to keep firing while the blaster ships do not have to leave their MWD on.
2. The top speed of a mega with a MWD is 960 or 1375 without plates or tri-marks. Overloading matters.
Quote:
Better start chugging those cap boosters and hope that this engagement is the only one of the day. Or that you have a hauler along with cap boosters.
Yea, because laser ships which have to inject the entire time with smaller cargo holds(including ammo) with higher average and normal cap use totally don't have to eat cap boosters... man what?
Quote:
No, the Abaddon uses more cap than the blaster mega, but makes up for it by having near equal damage, and much better resists and EHP. The geddon and the apoc uses slightly more cap (15 en compared to 13.4). All 3 have better cap recharge and overall cap to boot.
1. The Abaddon does not have "near equal damage" to a mega.
2. The Geddon has more DPS than an Abaddon.
3. The cap use on a Geddon is much more than 15. It uses 32.3 Cap/second compared to the Mega's 20.8. This puts the difference when not injecting for how long the cap lasts on each at roughly 5 minutes in favor of the mega. Granted you'll eat a lot of that MWDing, but everyone here expects the laser ships to be MWDing too, and it wont be enough to reduce you to under the geddons cap out time, and it means there is significant differences in the time each have before requiring more injector charges.
Quote:
Except that mega would have been taking fire as he approached you.
Only if the Mega is primary, and if the mega is primary that means that the enemy gang thinks they're dangerous. (As has been explained twice in this thread already)
Quote:
Except that a bunch of geddons can pack together and RR one another, and don't need to worry about having EVERYONE slowboat or even worse MWD to a target just because its distance away is longer than a noselength.
Domi's do it better. They have more EHP, and much much more Repping ability and more ability to avoid getting jammed by ECM with just as much or more range. Complaining that Gallente does not have an RR boat is just plain foolish, they have the best RR boat in the game. Just like railguns you just have to use it in the right situation.
There is no reason that blasters should perform better in a gang niche when gallente already are competent in that area with rails. There is no reason that blasters should perform better in a RR gang niche when gallente already have the best RR boat in the game. You get the best solo/small gang battleships and to get that you take some trade-offs by not being as good in a larger gang just as Amarr take the trade-offs of not being as good in a smaller one.
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Childstar
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Posted - 2009.03.19 16:29:00 -
[878]
Edited by: Childstar on 19/03/2009 16:29:46
Originally by: Goumindong
Originally by: Cohkka
I don't know how many Blasterships are flown these days as there aren't any numbers to prove it. All I know is that for any resonable sized gang (6-8 BS and up) a Railfitted Mega does the job way better than a Blaster one. Now considering Rails do 30% less damage than Scorch MPs with less range and tracking you can set things in perspective.
Its actually 6% less against armor tanked battleships(counting shield and structure). And they have more range. Tracking isn't as big a deal in battleship gang combat(and when it is, the laser ships can't hit anyway)
With a reasonable fit the mega gets 538 raw gun dmg with faction antimatter out to 36km optimal + 30km falloff, but has no chance of ever fitting a RR.
The geddon gets 606 raw gun dps out to 45km + 10km falloff with larger EHP and a RR fitted.
The abaddon gets 730 raw gun dps out to 45km + 10km falloff with a much larger tank but no RR.
Or if you decide to fit one on your abaddon you get 639 raw gun DPS out to 45km + 10km falloff and RR.
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Cohkka
Celestial Apocalypse
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Posted - 2009.03.19 16:43:00 -
[879]
Originally by: Goumindong
You get the best solo/small gang battleships and to get that you take some trade-offs by not being as good in a larger gang just as Amarr take the trade-offs of not being as good in a smaller one.
Is that so? Appart from the fact that for more than 99% of the EVE population solo combat in a BS is nonexistant, do you really believe what you're saying? I guess we have to define what a "small" gang is first before drawing any conclusion whenever this is true. But imo this is not needed as the usefullnes of a blaster boat over a laser boat ends with 2-3 other BS in the gang... from there fast focus fire and instandly applicable damage is of higher importance, especially against smaller sized targets (where tracking/range starts to matter).
And then you get the nice bonus of being able to use range to your advantage thus being able to disengage, making it better at taking on larger numbers of targets. From my perspective this is exactly the reason why Amarr BS are designed to be slow (to be unable to bail out)... but it simply doesn't work out since BS speed/agility diffrences don't matter with current gamemechanics or aren't even worth mentioning.
I won't get into your cap/mwd argument as it's obviously wrong to assume Amarr have to constandly use mwds. Fact is you have to run your heavy cap booster almost nonstop in a fight with a blasterboat.
Don't speak english, just F5, F5, F5... |
Childstar
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Posted - 2009.03.19 16:51:00 -
[880]
Edited by: Childstar on 19/03/2009 16:52:30
Originally by: Goumindong
2. The top speed of a mega with a MWD is 960 or 1375 without plates or tri-marks. Overloading matters.
All ships can overheat
Originally by: Goumindong
1. The Abaddon does not have "near equal damage" to a mega.
Correct the abaddon actually does more dmg than the mega even after resists at all but a tiny range.
Originally by: Goumindong
Granted you'll eat a lot of that MWDing, but everyone here expects the laser ships to be MWDing too
No they do not, ALL the megas in a gang need to be almost constantly running MWDing to catch the primary or at least get into a range that they can do reasonable damage.
The only laser ship that needs to run its mwd is the single one they are after and maybe those close to it to gain distance, the rest can just burn at normal speed.
Originally by: Goumindong
Only if the Mega is primary, and if the mega is primary that means that the enemy gang thinks they're dangerous..
The reason why the Blaster ships are going to be primary is because they have lower ehp and will be well within the optimal range of all the oposing gang and so will be getting hit by more ships and harder than ships at longer range.
Originally by: Goumindong
You get the best solo/small gang battleships and to get that you take some trade-offs by not being as good in a larger gang just as Amarr take the trade-offs of not being as good in a smaller one.
Give it a rest, all BS suck at solo work now because the target availability for them is close to 0, now blaster BS may suck slightly less ON PAPER OR SISSI than amarr at solo work but that does not make them good or even particularly useful at solo work. Nor does it make solo BS PVP actually exist on TQ or make blaster BS the best choice for it even if it did exist.
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Trader20
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Posted - 2009.03.19 18:46:00 -
[881]
Edited by: Trader20 on 19/03/2009 18:48:00
Originally by: Electric Universe
Originally by: Zubakis
Originally by: Electric Universe
You also forgot that MWDing 25-30 km in a Mega doesn't take many seconds.
R u sure? Try it out how long does it take to move 30km from a full stop. It will be like 30sec.
Yeah, and 30 secs is long time?.
Well problem is apoc/abaddon can fit a larger buffer tank then mega/hype and a mwd'ing mega/hype will have a hard time maintaining a mwd and lar so it is forced to use a buffer (yes I know about cap boosters). Apoc/Abaddon rarely fits a lar because of pulse/beam cap usage, but rarely needs to use it's mwd to get into range (many apoc/abaddon pilots and myself still fit a mwd for those gtfo moments). So while the mega/hype is mwd'ing to the target doing little to no damage it's taking full damage from the apoc/abaddon, so in theory mega/hype should have a larger buffer tank because it has to survive long enough to get into range. I know I'm writing about tanking but it all relates back to blaster range and the need to survive long enough to get into range, but if you land right ontop of your target in a mega/hype, it's melting time.
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Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
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Posted - 2009.03.19 20:07:00 -
[882]
Edited by: Electric Universe on 19/03/2009 20:09:31
Trader20, you still forget that that a Megathron have pretty high EM and Thermal resists, so it's nothing that it's called melting time on a Megathron from Lasers.
Well maybe if like 5-6 Laser BS'es are shooting one mega, then it might melt a bit faster. But what ship doesn't melt to 5-6 BS'es?.
In fact, an Abaddon melts like 20-30% faster to 6 Blaster Mega's than one Mega melts to 6 Abaddons. This is when the Abaddons are at their optimal and when Blaster Megas are in their optimal range.
Because first of all, any or most of the Blaster Megas does have one RR fitted, and because of the high EM and Thermal resist, the Lasers doesn't do so much damage to the Megas, so the other Megathrons can manage to lock the Mega that is primary and start RRing him before he's about to go down.
An Abaddon can't RR each others as it need the 8 guns.
And when 6 Abaddons are shooting one of the 6 Megathrons, then the 5 other Megathrons start to RR the Mega that is primary, for example. And by that, i think the RR is going to make it up quite nicely to the 37% extra EHP the Abaddons have over the Megathrons.
And not only that, but with RR in our gang, we can fight outnumbered alot of times to. Because the RR is helping pretty good in such gangs.
I have seen a bunch of Megathrons jump into another gang that have almost the double of battleships than the gang with Megathrons have.
Then they jumped in, MWD'ed right back to the gate and started to RR each others, and they killed alot of ships without taking any losses. Then they saw after a little time that they had no other choices than jump out because the rest of the targets was way to spread out and to far away from the Megas, so they sat there and RR'ed each others until the aggro timer was over. And then jumped out. And won the fight with lots of kills and with no losses.
Try that with a gang of Abaddons. Or to be honest here, don't even try that, your going to get slaughtered HARD.
So take that into the picture to.
That's the reason i'm saying that a Megathron is very good in a gang.
EDIT: WOOOOT, i now got a portrait to, oh yeah.
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Childstar
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Posted - 2009.03.19 20:42:00 -
[883]
Originally by: Electric Universe
In fact, an Abaddon melts like 20-30% faster to 6 Blaster Mega's than one Mega melts to 6 Abaddons. This is when the Abaddons are at their optimal and when Blaster Megas are in their optimal range.
The abaddon may melt 20-30% faster but it also has 37% more ehp as well as the fact that the megas need to be at 4.5km while the abaddons can be at much longer ranges.
Originally by: Electric Universe
Stuff about RR
A omni tank blaster mega gets 832 gun dps at 4.5km optimal with RR fitted.
The 425 RAIL mega gets 538 raw gun dmg with faction antimatter out to 36km optimal, but has no chance of ever fitting a RR and only a 100k omni tank.
The geddon gets 606 raw gun dps out to 45km optimal (760 gun dps out to 15km) with good EHP and a RR fitted.
The abaddon gets 730 raw gun dps out to 45km optimal (916 gun dps out to 15km) with a massive EHP tank but no RR.
Or if you decide to fit one on your abaddon you get 639 raw gun dps out to 45km optimal (802 raw gun dps out to 15km) and a massive EHP tank and has RR.
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Koloch
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.03.19 20:53:00 -
[884]
Originally by: Theron Gyrow
You're claiming that a Blasterthron is a good option for RR gangs? :D (If you want to RR without losing damage, you can use a Geddon. Ok, without AWU5, you have to drop one mega pulse to DHP, but that is not a huge damage loss...)
Geddon is a pretty terrible RR ship. I'd be really interested in hearing your setup... tbh there aren't many feasible setups for the Geddon + Mega Pulse. So please post me your exact setup.
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Koloch
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.03.19 21:00:00 -
[885]
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: Electric Universe
In fact, an Abaddon melts like 20-30% faster to 6 Blaster Mega's than one Mega melts to 6 Abaddons. This is when the Abaddons are at their optimal and when Blaster Megas are in their optimal range.
The abaddon may melt 20-30% faster but it also has 37% more ehp as well as the fact that the megas need to be at 4.5km while the abaddons can be at much longer ranges.
Originally by: Electric Universe
Stuff about RR
A omni tank blaster mega gets 832 gun dps at 4.5km optimal with RR fitted.
The 425 RAIL mega gets 538 raw gun dmg with faction antimatter out to 36km optimal, but has no chance of ever fitting a RR and only a 100k omni tank.
The geddon gets 606 raw gun dps out to 45km optimal (760 gun dps out to 15km) with good EHP and a RR fitted.
The abaddon gets 730 raw gun dps out to 45km optimal (916 gun dps out to 15km) with a massive EHP tank but no RR.
Or if you decide to fit one on your abaddon you get 639 raw gun dps out to 45km optimal (802 raw gun dps out to 15km) and a massive EHP tank and has RR.
But then the Mega also has the option to field ORgeIIs or sentryIIs. So it's true dps is a lot higher than 832
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Childstar
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Posted - 2009.03.19 21:03:00 -
[886]
Edited by: Childstar on 19/03/2009 21:06:27
Originally by: Koloch
But then the Mega also has the option to field ORgeIIs or sentryIIs. So it's true dps is a lot higher than 832
The geddon gets 606 raw gun dps out to 45km optimal or 760 gun dps out to 15km with good EHP and a RR fitted.
Also with 5 ogre or sentry T2's. (317 thermal dps if ogres are used)
Or if you decide to fit one on your abaddon you get 639 raw gun dps out to 45km optimal (802 raw gun dps out to 15km) and a massive EHP tank and has RR.
+111 thermal dps from drones.
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Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
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Posted - 2009.03.19 21:04:00 -
[887]
Edited by: Electric Universe on 19/03/2009 21:05:01
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: Electric Universe
In fact, an Abaddon melts like 20-30% faster to 6 Blaster Mega's than one Mega melts to 6 Abaddons. This is when the Abaddons are at their optimal and when Blaster Megas are in their optimal range.
The abaddon may melt 20-30% faster but it also has 37% more ehp as well as the fact that the megas need to be at 4.5km while the abaddons can be at much longer ranges.
Originally by: Electric Universe
Stuff about RR
A omni tank blaster mega gets 832 gun dps at 4.5km optimal with RR fitted.
The 425 RAIL mega gets 538 raw gun dmg with faction antimatter out to 36km optimal, but has no chance of ever fitting a RR and only a 100k omni tank.
The geddon gets 606 raw gun dps out to 45km optimal (760 gun dps out to 15km) with good EHP and a RR fitted.
The abaddon gets 730 raw gun dps out to 45km optimal (916 gun dps out to 15km) with a massive EHP tank but no RR.
Or if you decide to fit one on your abaddon you get 639 raw gun dps out to 45km optimal (802 raw gun dps out to 15km) and a massive EHP tank and has RR.
To you first thing. Yeah, at 4.5 / 5 km, it's not hard to warp a gang into that range, or on top of the enemies.
If this is at a gate where you jump in, there are probably enemies that camp the gate to, so the Mega's just MWD down to the gate and start the RRing each others and start the pew pew of the targets they can get. Remember, in situations like the situation i wrote about over, you cannot move out of the RR range to the other Megas, because if you do, your going to die.
So every Megathrons have to stay close to each others.
The 2nd thing. No, my Megathron on EFT does 1k DPS at the optimal range to the Neutrons with one RR fitted.
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Childstar
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Posted - 2009.03.19 21:15:00 -
[888]
Edited by: Childstar on 19/03/2009 21:23:16
Originally by: Electric Universe
To you first thing. Yeah, at 4.5 / 5 km, it's not hard to warp a gang into that range, or on top of the enemies.
The warping in at range applies to both sides and the megas only have the DPS advantage if they warp in for the first target after that the oposing gang will have burned way outside 4.5km so the dps advantage you say they would get is history.
Originally by: Electric Universe
The 2nd thing. No, my Megathron on EFT does 1k DPS at the optimal range to the Neutrons with one RR fitted. This is ofc with 5x Ogre II drones. And on my setup i only use one damage mod.
I did point out that it was raw gun dps as drone dmg is normally going to be thermal as well as the fact that the geddon can fit as many drones as the mega.
Although the mega i put together had 1148 dps with drones, RR and 115k+ ehp including the usual mwd, point web ect.
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Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
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Posted - 2009.03.19 21:29:00 -
[889]
Edited by: Electric Universe on 19/03/2009 21:29:31
Originally by: Childstar
Edited by: Childstar on 19/03/2009 21:23:16
Originally by: Electric Universe
To you first thing. Yeah, at 4.5 / 5 km, it's not hard to warp a gang into that range, or on top of the enemies.
The warping in at range applies to both sides and the megas only have the DPS advantage if they warp in for the first target after that the oposing gang will have burned way outside 4.5km so the dps advantage you say they would get is history.
Originally by: Electric Universe
The 2nd thing. No, my Megathron on EFT does 1k DPS at the optimal range to the Neutrons with one RR fitted. This is ofc with 5x Ogre II drones. And on my setup i only use one damage mod.
I did point out that it was raw gun dps as drone dmg is normally going to be thermal as well as the fact that the geddon can fit as many drones as the mega.
Although the mega i put together had 1148 dps with drones, RR and 115k+ ehp including the usual mwd, point web ect.
To you first thing. No that's not right. It's something called webbing more than just the primary and secondary target you know.
To the second thing. Yes i agree, but still even when the geddon can have as much drones as the Mega, it still doesn't do near as good DPS as the Blaster mega does at 5 km.
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Childstar
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Posted - 2009.03.19 21:45:00 -
[890]
Edited by: Childstar on 19/03/2009 21:46:31
Originally by: Electric Universe
To you first thing. No that's not right. It's something called webbing more than just the primary and secondary target you know.
Its impossable to designate individual webs from individual ships onto individual ships when in a good sized gang vs gang fight.
Not only that but as you said the megas need to stick together and as such any tertiary ships they may have webbed will still have plenty of time to get out of the "4.5km blaster 30% dps advantage" range and into the ranges that lasers do the greater dps.
Originally by: Electric Universe
To the second thing. Yes i agree, but still even when the geddon can have as much drones as the Mega, it still doesn't do near as good DPS as the Blaster mega does at 5 km.
I never said geddons match the dps of megas at 4.5km, they do however match and then out damage megas at every range from just over that, and then continue to do so all the way out to 45km.
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Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
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Posted - 2009.03.19 21:53:00 -
[891]
Originally by: Childstar
Edited by: Childstar on 19/03/2009 21:46:31
Originally by: Electric Universe
To you first thing. No that's not right. It's something called webbing more than just the primary and secondary target you know.
Its impossable to designate individual webs from individual ships onto individual ships when in a good sized gang vs gang fight.
Not only that but as you said the megas need to stick together and as such any tertiary ships they may have webbed will still have plenty of time to get out of the "4.5km blaster 30% dps advantage" range and into the ranges that lasers do the greater dps.
Well you have to do something to be able to hold them webbed so they don't run away so fast, or so they don't goes out of our range.
So yeah, any smart Blaster BS gangs would do that anyways.
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Koloch
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.03.19 21:54:00 -
[892]
Originally by: Childstar
Edited by: Childstar on 19/03/2009 21:46:31
Originally by: Electric Universe
To you first thing. No that's not right. It's something called webbing more than just the primary and secondary target you know.
Its impossable to designate individual webs from individual ships onto individual ships when in a good sized gang vs gang fight.
Not only that but as you said the megas need to stick together and as such any tertiary ships they may have webbed will still have plenty of time to get out of the "4.5km blaster 30% dps advantage" range and into the ranges that lasers do the greater dps.
Originally by: Electric Universe
To the second thing. Yes i agree, but still even when the geddon can have as much drones as the Mega, it still doesn't do near as good DPS as the Blaster mega does at 5 km.
I never said geddons match the dps of megas at 4.5km, they do however match and then out damage megas at every range from just over that, and then continue to do so all the way out to 45km.
...and leaving out lots of data regarding fit ehp (for both ships) etc.
and just to note on your web comment. people fly mixed gangs for a reason. points and webs are spread out. yeah you'll get doubling up on targets, but it's not like 10 guys warp in on 10 and everyone puts a point and web on primary.
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Allahs Warrior
Gallente
I.M.M
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Posted - 2009.03.19 22:04:00 -
[893]
Originally by: Electric Universe
Originally by: Zubakis
Originally by: Electric Universe
You also forgot that MWDing 25-30 km in a Mega doesn't take many seconds.
R u sure? Try it out how long does it take to move 30km from a full stop. It will be like 30sec.
Yeah, and 30 secs is long time?.
It's only a 10-20 THOUSAND damage handicap, as well as the capacitor lost.
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Childstar
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Posted - 2009.03.19 22:05:00 -
[894]
Edited by: Childstar on 19/03/2009 22:09:29
Originally by: Koloch
...and leaving out lots of data regarding fit ehp (for both ships) etc.
The geddon fit i used 113ehp, mwd, large injector, point or web, 1077dps out to 15km and 923 out to 45km (inc drones) and a single RR.
The mega fit had the 115ehp, mwd, point, web, large injector and does 1148dps at 4.5km and has a single RR.
Originally by: Koloch
and just to note on your web comment. people fly mixed gangs for a reason. points and webs are spread out. yeah you'll get doubling up on targets, but it's not like 10 guys warp in on 10 and everyone puts a point and web on primary.
I agree, but then megas will always bunch up in combat anyway as they need to sit on top of the primary target to do good dmg anyway let alone to RR each other.
And as such with or without RR they cannot move with the tertiary ships they have webbed and with such a tiny window of dps advantage even a webbed ship will be out of the megas tiny sweet spot pretty quickly and even out of web range eventually.
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Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
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Posted - 2009.03.19 22:09:00 -
[895]
Edited by: Electric Universe on 19/03/2009 22:12:36
Originally by: Allahs Warrior
Originally by: Electric Universe
Originally by: Zubakis
Originally by: Electric Universe
You also forgot that MWDing 25-30 km in a Mega doesn't take many seconds.
R u sure? Try it out how long does it take to move 30km from a full stop. It will be like 30sec.
Yeah, and 30 secs is long time?.
It's only a 10-20 THOUSAND damage handicap, as well as the capacitor lost.
Capacitor loss?.
LOL, we are not talking about Dual LAR fitted Megas here, we are talking about passive fitted Megas.
You can MWD for a LOOOOOOOOOOONG time with a passive setup and one MWD and using the guns on a Megathron.
And if everyone of the Megathrons are going for the same target, then the Megathrons can RR each others while MWDing after the target to if they are close enough to each others.
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Childstar
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Posted - 2009.03.19 22:17:00 -
[896]
Originally by: Electric Universe
You can MWD for a LOOOOOOOOOOONG time with a passive setup and one MWD and using the guns on a Megathron.
Its not that long and the baddon and geddons cap lasts a lot longer as they do not need to mwd towards every target.
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Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
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Posted - 2009.03.19 22:23:00 -
[897]
Edited by: Electric Universe on 19/03/2009 22:24:41
Originally by: Childstar
Edited by: Childstar on 19/03/2009 22:18:44
Originally by: Electric Universe
You can MWD for a LOOOOOOOOOOONG time with a passive setup and one MWD and using the guns on a Megathron.
And if everyone of the Megathrons are going for the same target, then the Megathrons can RR each others while MWDing after the target to if they are close enough to each others.
Its not that long and the baddon and geddons cap lasts a lot longer as they do not need to mwd towards every target.
And if you wanna mwd and RR pluis fire in a mega thats fine but the word "long" and |"cap" should not be used in the same sentance if you do....
But then the Amarr BS'es use quite alot more cap to shoot than the Blaster Megathrons use. Wasn't the Pulses using like 32 cap per cycle per gun or something on an Abaddon?.
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Childstar
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Posted - 2009.03.19 22:31:00 -
[898]
Originally by: Electric Universe
Edited by: Electric Universe on 19/03/2009 22:24:41
Originally by: Childstar
Edited by: Childstar on 19/03/2009 22:18:44
Originally by: Electric Universe
You can MWD for a LOOOOOOOOOOONG time with a passive setup and one MWD and using the guns on a Megathron.
And if everyone of the Megathrons are going for the same target, then the Megathrons can RR each others while MWDing after the target to if they are close enough to each others.
Its not that long and the baddon and geddons cap lasts a lot longer as they do not need to mwd towards every target.
And if you wanna mwd and RR pluis fire in a mega thats fine but the word "long" and |"cap" should not be used in the same sentance if you do....
But then the Amarr BS'es use quite alot more cap to shoot than the Blaster Megathrons use. Wasn't the Pulses using like 32 cap per cycle per gun or something on an Abaddon?.
Pulse use more cap than blasters but the mega needs to run a mwd just hit hit well let alone hard.
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Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
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Posted - 2009.03.19 22:33:00 -
[899]
Edited by: Electric Universe on 19/03/2009 22:34:14
Originally by: Childstar
Pulse use more cap than blasters but the mega needs to run a mwd just hit hit well let alone hard.
It's still 125% more cap usage than Neutrons. And believe me, your cap goes down quite fast after some mins with shooting.
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Childstar
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Posted - 2009.03.19 22:49:00 -
[900]
Originally by: Electric Universe
Originally by: Childstar
Pulse use more cap than blasters but the mega needs to run a mwd just hit hit well let alone hard.
It's still 125% more cap usage than Neutrons. And believe me, your cap goes down quite fast after some mins with shooting.
13.65 cap per gun cycle x 7 guns = 95.55 + 276 per 4.6 seconds from the mwd = 371.55 cap per 4.6 second gun cycle or 80.7 cap per second.
The geddon uses 15 cap per gun cycle x 7 = 105 per 3.4 seconds or 30.88 cap per second.
The abaddon uses 30 cap per gun cycle x 8 = 240 per 4.3 second cycle or 55.81 cap per second.
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Esmenet
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.03.19 23:00:00 -
[901]
Originally by: Koloch
and just to note on your web comment. people fly mixed gangs for a reason. points and webs are spread out. yeah you'll get doubling up on targets, but it's not like 10 guys warp in on 10 and everyone puts a point and web on primary.
Blaster megas are worthless in a mixed RR gang.
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Childstar
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Posted - 2009.03.19 23:07:00 -
[902]
Originally by: Esmenet
Originally by: Koloch
and just to note on your web comment. people fly mixed gangs for a reason. points and webs are spread out. yeah you'll get doubling up on targets, but it's not like 10 guys warp in on 10 and everyone puts a point and web on primary.
Blaster megas are worthless in a mixed RR gang.
That is why they used the "mega only gang" scenario as in a mixed gang they would be nothing more than a remote rep ship doing close to no damage while the ships with longer range were the only ones doing good damage.
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Esmenet
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.03.19 23:12:00 -
[903]
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: Esmenet
Originally by: Koloch
and just to note on your web comment. people fly mixed gangs for a reason. points and webs are spread out. yeah you'll get doubling up on targets, but it's not like 10 guys warp in on 10 and everyone puts a point and web on primary.
Blaster megas are worthless in a mixed RR gang.
That is why they used the "mega only gang" scenario as in a mixed gang they would be nothing more than a remote rep ship doing close to no damage while the ships with longer range were the only ones doing good damage.
Yes i know. I'd love to find some of these mega only gangs for some easy kills.
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Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
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Posted - 2009.03.19 23:12:00 -
[904]
Edited by: Electric Universe on 19/03/2009 23:14:09
Edited by: Electric Universe on 19/03/2009 23:12:29
Originally by: Esmenet
Originally by: Koloch
and just to note on your web comment. people fly mixed gangs for a reason. points and webs are spread out. yeah you'll get doubling up on targets, but it's not like 10 guys warp in on 10 and everyone puts a point and web on primary.
Blaster megas are worthless in a mixed RR gang.
This is a joke right?.
Originally by: Childstar
Edited by: Childstar on 19/03/2009 23:04:24
Originally by: Electric Universe
Originally by: Childstar
Pulse use more cap than blasters but the mega needs to run a mwd just hit hit well let alone hard.
It's still 125% more cap usage than Neutrons. And believe me, your cap goes down quite fast after some mins with shooting.
13.65 cap per gun cycle x 7 guns = 95.55 + 276 per 4.6 seconds from the mwd = 371.55 cap per 4.6 second gun cycle or 80.7 cap per second.
The geddon uses 15 cap per gun cycle x 7 = 105 per 3.4 seconds or 30.88 cap per second.
The abaddon uses 30 cap per gun cycle x 8 = 240 per 4.3 second cycle or 55.81 cap per second.
ODD how you claim the megas cap lasts a "LOOOOOOOOOOONG" time with a mwd......and yet a lasers ships cap that actually lasts lot longer you claim runs out "quite fast".
Have you been taking gourmindong lessons in baised perspective and contradictory posting?...
Yeah that's with the MWD running.
But only compate with the guns only.
Then what does the numbers get within two minutes?.
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Esmenet
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.03.19 23:13:00 -
[905]
Originally by: Electric Universe
Edited by: Electric Universe on 19/03/2009 23:12:29
Originally by: Esmenet
Originally by: Koloch
and just to note on your web comment. people fly mixed gangs for a reason. points and webs are spread out. yeah you'll get doubling up on targets, but it's not like 10 guys warp in on 10 and everyone puts a point and web on primary.
Blaster megas are worthless in a mixed RR gang.
This is a joke right?.
Try pvp once outside sisi.
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Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
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Posted - 2009.03.19 23:15:00 -
[906]
Edited by: Electric Universe on 19/03/2009 23:14:58
Originally by: Esmenet
Originally by: Electric Universe
Edited by: Electric Universe on 19/03/2009 23:12:29
Originally by: Esmenet
Originally by: Koloch
and just to note on your web comment. people fly mixed gangs for a reason. points and webs are spread out. yeah you'll get doubling up on targets, but it's not like 10 guys warp in on 10 and everyone puts a point and web on primary.
Blaster megas are worthless in a mixed RR gang.
This is a joke right?.
Try pvp once outside sisi.
Try coming with some facts instead of lies and bull****.
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Julie Thorne
14th Legion
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Posted - 2009.03.19 23:18:00 -
[907]
Originally by: Childstar
The geddon fit i used 113ehp, mwd, large injector, point or web, 1077dps out to 15km and 923 out to 45km (inc drones) and a single RR.
Please post your setup.
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Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Blackguard Coalition
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Posted - 2009.03.19 23:21:00 -
[908]
Originally by: Julie Thorne
Originally by: Childstar
The geddon fit i used 113ehp, mwd, large injector, point or web, 1077dps out to 15km and 923 out to 45km (inc drones) and a single RR.
Please post your setup.
Hi Julie! Good to still see you on the forums! I'm surprised you had the patience to read this thread (and hell, the only reason I peaked in was seeing your name.. lol) o7
-Liang
--
Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
www.kwikdeath.org |
Esmenet
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.03.19 23:22:00 -
[909]
Originally by: Electric Universe
Haven't you readed all of the 100 replies from me in this topic at all?.
Yes why bother repeating the 100 times you have been shown to be wrong. Good luck troll.
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Childstar
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Posted - 2009.03.19 23:22:00 -
[910]
Edited by: Childstar on 19/03/2009 23:23:05
Originally by: Electric Universe
Yeah that's with the MWD running.
But only compate with the guns only.
Then what does the numbers get within two minutes?.
It gets the mega dead having done sod all damage as it did not get into dmg range of any of the targets.
Oh and FYI, in mixed RR BS gangs the blaster mega has to choose between approaching close to the primary to do damage or staying within RR range.
As such the gang either does low dps cos the megas are out of range for most of the fight and the ENTIRE gang needs to approach each primary or the megas burn ahead to do damage and die cos they cannot be RR'd.
If you had ever flown in mixed RR gangs you would know that.
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Childstar
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Posted - 2009.03.19 23:34:00 -
[911]
Originally by: Julie Thorne
Originally by: Childstar
The geddon fit i used 113ehp, mwd, large injector, point or web, 1077dps out to 15km and 923 out to 45km (inc drones) and a single RR.
Please post your setup.
7 x MP2
1 X Large solace RR.
1 x MWD best named/low cpu.
1 x heavy injector best named/low cpu.
1 x point or web best named/low cpu.
1 x dcu II
2 x heat sink II
2 x ANP II
3 x 1600 reinforced rolled tungsten plates
1 x t1 pg rig.
2 x t1 trimarks.
5 x ogreII's
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Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
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Posted - 2009.03.19 23:34:00 -
[912]
Originally by: Childstar
Oh and FYI, in mixed RR BS gangs the blaster mega has to choose between approaching close to the primary to do damage or staying within RR range.
As such the gang either does low dps cos the megas are out of range for most of the fight and the ENTIRE gang needs to approach each primary or the megas burn ahead to do damage and die cos they cannot be RR'd.
If you had ever flown in mixed RR gangs you would know that.
Hey, the other RR Megas can go after the same target maybe?, they don't need to stay still. As long the other Megas are within the 8.5 km range then they are fine.
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Gevic
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Posted - 2009.03.19 23:47:00 -
[913]
LOL, when comparing cap usage between hybrids and lasers, people *DO* know that the only ship that uses significantly uses more cap is the Abaddon right?
And that cap use between the Geddon/Apoc and the Mega/Hype in terms of guns is fairly equal, especially when you factor in the Amarr ships superior cap and cap recharge right?
Quote:
Hey, the other RR Megas can go after the same target maybe?, they don't need to stay still. As long the other Megas are within the 8.5 km range then they are fine.
And if they have other targets near, then they can web the other targets to as long they are within 10 km. So it gets easier to close in to them later when we have killed the primary or whatever.
Also, lol at MWDing and RRing and using guns. Like I said before, I hope you have a hauler a jump out with cap charges or something, and that you don't run out mid fight.
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Childstar
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Posted - 2009.03.19 23:48:00 -
[914]
Originally by: Electric Universe
Edited by: Electric Universe on 19/03/2009 23:37:01
Originally by: Childstar
Oh and FYI, in mixed RR BS gangs the blaster mega has to choose between approaching close to the primary to do damage or staying within RR range.
As such the gang either does low dps cos the megas are out of range for most of the fight and the ENTIRE gang needs to approach each primary or the megas burn ahead to do damage and die cos they cannot be RR'd.
If you had ever flown in mixed RR gangs you would know that.
Hey, the other RR Megas can go after the same target maybe?, they don't need to stay still. As long the other Megas are within the 8.5 km range then they are fine.
And if they have other targets near, then they can web the other targets to as long they are within 10 km. So it gets easier to close in to them later when we have killed the primary or whatever.
A RR gang with megas in it loses the DPS of ALL those megas until they finally get into hit range of each ship the gang goes after. As well as the fact that the ENTIRE gang will need to use their MWD's as well as weapons or be out of RR range of the blaster ships.
Now you were the one talking about laser cap issues so i suggest you ask a amarr pilot how he would feel about needing to MWD after a mega while firing AND remote repping.....
I hope you are not easily offended by bad launguage if you do...
While the gang with longer range and no blaster ships to burn after lays down hard DPS from all its ships from the start AND has to RR less as its taking less dmg.....
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Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
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Posted - 2009.03.19 23:51:00 -
[915]
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: Electric Universe
Edited by: Electric Universe on 19/03/2009 23:37:01
Originally by: Childstar
Oh and FYI, in mixed RR BS gangs the blaster mega has to choose between approaching close to the primary to do damage or staying within RR range.
As such the gang either does low dps cos the megas are out of range for most of the fight and the ENTIRE gang needs to approach each primary or the megas burn ahead to do damage and die cos they cannot be RR'd.
If you had ever flown in mixed RR gangs you would know that.
Hey, the other RR Megas can go after the same target maybe?, they don't need to stay still. As long the other Megas are within the 8.5 km range then they are fine.
And if they have other targets near, then they can web the other targets to as long they are within 10 km. So it gets easier to close in to them later when we have killed the primary or whatever.
A RR gang with megas in it loses the DPS of ALL those megas until they finally get into hit range of each ship the gang goes after. As well as the fact that the ENTIRE gang will need to use their MWD's as well as weapons or be out of RR range of the blaster ships.
Yes but it pays off that they can rep each other all the time.
Megathrons have to use a bit of cap that way yes, but they have better chance to survive to by doing that so it pays off by using a bit more cap. So it's all after what you choose to do. But if it had been my gang, i would have the rest of the RR Megas to follow me to RR me if i'm getting shoot and shoot the target i'm telling as primary or secondary or whatever.
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Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
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Posted - 2009.03.19 23:59:00 -
[916]
Originally by: Gevic
LOL, when comparing cap usage between hybrids and lasers, people *DO* know that the only ship that uses significantly uses more cap is the Abaddon right?
And that cap use between the Geddon/Apoc and the Mega/Hype in terms of guns is fairly equal, especially when you factor in the Amarr ships superior cap and cap recharge right?
Quote:
Hey, the other RR Megas can go after the same target maybe?, they don't need to stay still. As long the other Megas are within the 8.5 km range then they are fine.
And if they have other targets near, then they can web the other targets to as long they are within 10 km. So it gets easier to close in to them later when we have killed the primary or whatever.
Also, lol at MWDing and RRing and using guns. Like I said before, I hope you have a hauler a jump out with cap charges or something, and that you don't run out mid fight.
First. A Megathron have more capacitor than the geddon, but the geddon have a little lower recharge time than the Mega.
And an Abaddon is really a ship that you should compare to a Hyperion if it's about the capacitor and cap recharge time.
A Hyperion have more cap than an Abaddon have to.
To the last thing, you don't really need to MWD all the time, but when some of your gang mates are getting shoot, you better be within the 8.5 km range so they can rep you anyways.
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Gabriel Karade
Gallente
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
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Posted - 2009.03.20 00:00:00 -
[917]
Wow this is still going on...
Pre-QR the Blasterthron (for example) was a good solo boat but far from 'overpowered' - jam it, neut it, keep it at arms length, don't try to go toe-to-toe with it in a slugging match unless you want to die or have the numbers to take it out quickly. It was pretty straighforward, and I dare anyone here to show me crys of 'nerf' from that time period.
Personally, as someone who flew it for 3 years solo in 0.0, I'd like to see some of that role restored. Post-QR it's too vulnerable unless you are certain you will only be fighting another Battleship, or maybe a pair of Battlecruisers (hello flashy flashy targets in low sec) but for numbers beyond that, and if you're in a gang, bring something more useful i.e a Dominix, or fly another races ships.
In 0.0 that ship is now a lame duck - oh sorry I forgot, it can sometimes come near the top of offline POS killmails...
--------------
Video - 'War-Machine' |
Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
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Posted - 2009.03.20 00:09:00 -
[918]
Edited by: Electric Universe on 20/03/2009 00:13:07
Originally by: Gabriel Karade
Wow this is still going on...
Pre-QR the Blasterthron (for example) was a good solo boat but far from 'overpowered' - jam it, neut it, keep it at arms length, don't try to go toe-to-toe with it in a slugging match unless you want to die or have the numbers to take it out quickly. It was pretty straighforward, and I dare anyone here to show me crys of 'nerf' from that time period.
Personally, as someone who flew it for 3 years solo in 0.0, I'd like to see some of that role restored. Post-QR it's too vulnerable unless you are certain you will only be fighting another Battleship, or maybe a pair of Battlecruisers (hello flashy flashy targets in low sec) but for numbers beyond that, and if you're in a gang, bring something more useful i.e a Dominix, or fly another races ships.
In 0.0 that ship is now a lame duck - oh sorry I forgot, it can sometimes come near the top of offline POS killmails...
Yeah, for 0.0 space things get quite different than it is in low sec and empire for the Megathron.
In 0.0 space, you are using 425mm guns on a Megathron anyways in most situations, so the setups gets different then. Ofc there are some few times that there are some Blaster Megas with RR fitted in 0.0 space to, but those are usually gate huggers anyways. So they don't move around alot.
It's in low sec and empire the Megathron is really good in gangs with Blasters. Specially when they have RR fitted
EDIT: When it's about POS killing, then Tempest's with Quake L fitted is known for getting on top of the killmails .
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Childstar
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Posted - 2009.03.20 00:12:00 -
[919]
Edited by: Childstar on 20/03/2009 00:14:46
Originally by: Electric Universe
That setup is way out of CPU.
And the MWD and Cap injector only lower you powergrid usage if your going for t1 named.
You have to use a Quad Lif MWD to be able to fit the setup, because with a Quad Lif MWD your using 22606 out og 22687.5 powergrid.
But that setup with the Quad LIF MWD and the best t1 named Warp Disruptor use 631.25 out of 606.25 CPU.
It doesn't help with some lower CPU usage on turrets implant here either.
With a -5% lower CPU usage on turrets implant, your still using 617.34 out of 606.25 CPU. Yes this is with all skills on level 5.
I did not use the slot 10 -5% turret cpu reduction implant i used the cheaper -3% one and the slot 6 +3% cpu one. Although the slot 6 +5% one gives enough cpu for the fit so it depends on what is cheaper on the market or if you only wanna use one slot instead of two.
The fit uses 622.9/624.44 cpu and 22431/22687 pg using the two 3% implants.
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Trader20
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Posted - 2009.03.20 00:13:00 -
[920]
Originally by: Esmenet
Originally by: Koloch
and just to note on your web comment. people fly mixed gangs for a reason. points and webs are spread out. yeah you'll get doubling up on targets, but it's not like 10 guys warp in on 10 and everyone puts a point and web on primary.
Blaster megas are worthless in a mixed RR gang.
WTF? Explain urself.
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Trader20
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Posted - 2009.03.20 00:15:00 -
[921]
Lol I find it funny that ppl keep comparing the abaddon (tier 3) and the mega (tier 2)...maybe the hype needs a little boost??? (Don't say nerf the abaddon either)
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Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
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Posted - 2009.03.20 00:16:00 -
[922]
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: Electric Universe
That setup is way out of CPU.
And the MWD and Cap injector only lower you powergrid usage if your going for t1 named.
You have to use a Quad Lif MWD to be able to fit the setup, because with a Quad Lif MWD your using 22606 out og 22687.5 powergrid.
But that setup with the Quad LIF MWD and the best t1 named Warp Disruptor use 631.25 out of 606.25 CPU.
It doesn't help with some lower CPU usage on turrets implant here either.
With a -5% lower CPU usage on turrets implant, your still using 617.34 out of 606.25 CPU. Yes this is with all skills on level 5.
I did not use the slot 10 -5% turret cpu reduction implant i used the cheaper -3% one and the slot 6 +3% cpu one. Although the slot 6 5% gives enough cpu for the fit so it depends on what is cheaper on the market or if you only wanna use one slot.
The fit uses 622.9/624.44 cpu and 22431/22687 pg using the two 3% implants.
Alright.
But if your using 2x CPU implants, then it depends on what other implants you could have used in the Slot 6, if there is something that is way more important than that CPU implant on SLot 6, i will ofc use something else.
Btw, how much does the Slot 6 CPU implant cost?.
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Trader20
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Posted - 2009.03.20 00:20:00 -
[923]
Originally by: Esmenet
Originally by: Electric Universe
Edited by: Electric Universe on 19/03/2009 23:12:29
Originally by: Esmenet
Originally by: Koloch
and just to note on your web comment. people fly mixed gangs for a reason. points and webs are spread out. yeah you'll get doubling up on targets, but it's not like 10 guys warp in on 10 and everyone puts a point and web on primary.
Blaster megas are worthless in a mixed RR gang.
This is a joke right?.
Try pvp once outside sisi.
Maybe you should try it first, have you ever had a blaster mega land 5 km from you....oh I guess none of the missions you run have any mega's warpin ontop of you.
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Childstar
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Posted - 2009.03.20 00:27:00 -
[924]
Originally by: Electric Universe
But if your using 2x CPU implants, then it depends on what other implants you could have used in the Slot 6, if there is something that is way more important than that CPU implant on Slot 6, then i will ofc use something else than the Slot 6 CPU implant. Or it really depends tbh.
Is there a point to that waffle or are you just babbling because you were wrong?.
Originally by: Electric Universe
Btw, how much does the Slot 6 CPU implant cost?.
Well its a +3 so i doubt its much and certainly not something a player looking to fly 3 races of marauders and faction fitted navy megas into combat would worry about.
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Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
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Posted - 2009.03.20 00:43:00 -
[925]
Edited by: Electric Universe on 20/03/2009 00:47:00
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: Electric Universe
But if your using 2x CPU implants, then it depends on what other implants you could have used in the Slot 6, if there is something that is way more important than that CPU implant on Slot 6, then i will ofc use something else than the Slot 6 CPU implant. Or it really depends tbh.
Is there a point to that waffle or are you just babbling because you were wrong?.
Originally by: Electric Universe
Btw, how much does the Slot 6 CPU implant cost?.
Well its a +3 so i doubt its much and certainly not something a player looking to fly 3 races of marauders and faction fitted navy megas into combat would worry about.
Well it's pretty funny anyways that you have to use 2x CPU implants to be able to fit a normal t1 named / t2 passive setup with Mega Pulse II's on a geddon.
Ofc, if you have to then you have to. Nothing more to say about that.
But still, it's not gonna make the geddon any better than Megas when it's about RR and doing DPS. And how often do you see geddons with a remote rep fitted?. It's not often.
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Childstar
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Posted - 2009.03.20 01:00:00 -
[926]
Edited by: Childstar on 20/03/2009 01:04:06
Originally by: Electric Universe
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: Electric Universe
But if your using 2x CPU implants, then it depends on what other implants you could have used in the Slot 6, if there is something that is way more important than that CPU implant on Slot 6, then i will ofc use something else than the Slot 6 CPU implant. Or it really depends tbh.
Is there a point to that waffle or are you just babbling because you were wrong?.
Originally by: Electric Universe
Btw, how much does the Slot 6 CPU implant cost?.
Well its a +3 so i doubt its much and certainly not something a player looking to fly 3 races of marauders and faction fitted navy megas into combat would worry about.
Well it's pretty funny anyways that you have to use 2x CPU implants to be able to fit a normal t1 named / t2 passive setup with Mega Pulse II's on a geddon.
Ofc, if you have to then you have to. Nothing more to say about that.
But still, it's not gonna make the geddon any better than Megas when it's about RR and doing DPS.
It does what it does and the geddon and the baddon are each already so much more better in gang combat with or without RR than the mega or hype that they do not need to be any more so.
MWD + RR + GUNS...damn i remeber flying in a RR blaster BS..you did crap damage for most of the fight and if you did try to burn close to targets to do more you burned up your cap like a sod and either did not get repped, or if the whole gang moved with you it was reeeeaaal slow and quite bumpy as well as cap destroying...
And boy did the amarr pilots love us blaster boys for making them keep up and use there MWD's along with their RR and lasers.....
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Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
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Posted - 2009.03.20 01:28:00 -
[927]
Edited by: Electric Universe on 20/03/2009 01:31:12
Meh, as long your doing everything right in a gang THAT warps on top of the other enemies gang, they are still gonna pwn the enemies as long the enemies are close to each others.
It's all about doing things right and warp in at the right time.
The story is something else if every of the enemies are spread alot around. I will agree to some point that a Laser BS will have some advantages there. But it still doesn't mean that the Laser BS'es are any better overall in general than Blaster Megas, it all depends on so many things.
But it wont help if the Blaster Mega gang warps in and lands on top of all of the enemies that are close to each others.
It will get pretty nasty for the enemies then.
Originally by: Childstar
And boy did the amarr pilots love us blaster boys for making them keep up and use there MWD's along with their RR and lasers.....
Yeah, isn't Amarr the lazy man race that just have to press F1-F8 and watch the laser show like i have told here earlier heh?.
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Koloch
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.03.20 02:37:00 -
[928]
Originally by: Childstar
The geddon fit i used 113ehp, mwd, large injector, point or web, 1077dps out to 15km and 923 out to 45km (inc drones) and a single RR.
The mega fit had the 115ehp, mwd, point, web, large injector and does 1148dps at 4.5km and has a single RR.
geddon with that setup is actually 112.5 not 113.
well my mega setup has slighly lower dmg of 1096, but has 120.5 ehp
with a lot higher resists
with that setup the Geddon has a resist of
57.1 kin
62.8thrm
Mega is;
75.1 em
67.6 thrm
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Goumindong
Amarr
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.03.20 04:45:00 -
[929]
Originally by: Childstar
The geddon gets 606 raw gun dps out to 45km optimal (760 gun dps out to 15km) with good EHP and a RR fitted.
Or if you decide to fit one on your abaddon you get 639 raw gun dps out to 45km optimal (802 raw gun dps out to 15km) and a massive EHP tank and has RR.
You're doing something wrong
Armageddon: 8 low slots, 7 Turrets, 33% effective DPS bonus
Abaddon with an RR: 7 low slots, 7 turrets, 25% effective DPS bonus
Your numbers are impossible to reconcile.
Also, an RR Geddon does not have "good" EHP, it has about as much EHP as a rail fit mega. Unless you're saying the rail fit mega has good EHP...
Also, you can fit an RR on a rail fit mega.(Though you drop from 108k EHP to 94k EHP pending me thinking of a better fit which is very likely to exist)
Originally by: Cohkka
I won't get into your cap/mwd argument as it's obviously wrong to assume Amarr have to constandly use mwds. Fact is you have to run your heavy cap booster almost nonstop in a fight with a blasterboat.
I did not assume that you have to constantly use your MWD's i assumed that
A; Blaster boats do not have to constantly use their MWD's
B: Laser boats need to shoot their lasers constantly
and i added an aside that said
"The people who argue the other side of this issue are claiming that laser ships will be using their MWD".
I am not saying they are saying it needs to be used all the time, just saying that they are saying its going to be used.
If you're saying that you have to constantly use your Heavy Cap booster in a blaster ship then in any laser ship you must have to more than constantly use your heavy cap booster
Quote:
Appart from the fact that for more than 99% of the EVE population solo combat in a BS is nonexistant, do you really believe what you're saying?
The only thing preventing small gang/solo bs combat is people going out in small gangs or solo battleships. Ironically you going out more in them will encourage others to do the same.
P.S. 2 years ago people said "omg fly your amarr ships in a gang" when people complained when they were bad[P.P.S. one of those people was me]
Originally by: Childstar
All ships can overheat
That is true, so why are you not considering it in your figures?
Consider some things
1. Overheating favors the aggressor. I.E. it favors the guy who takes the initial action. Now, if a laser ship takes the initial action he can get out of his tackle range.(I.E. he burns away while the other ship simply leaves) Or he risks overheating with no purpose(since he doesn't need to yet). But when a blaster ship overheats the other ship is likely to end up tackled.
2. Overheating magnifies any differences by raw value increases. If a laser ship goes 700m/s and a blaster ship 900m/s then the difference between them is 200m/s and the blaster ship closes at 200m/s. When overloaded that changes to 300m/s, 50% faster, because the blaster ships speed increases to 1100m/s while the laser ship only increases to 800m/s. To give some real numbers...
Plated Tri-marked Blaster Gank Hyperion(865/1237m/s)
Plated Tri-marked Pulse Gank Abaddon(678/968m/s)
Differences of 187/269m/s.
By overloading the Hyperion your speed advantage increases by 43%.
Quote:
Correct the abaddon actually does more dmg than the mega even after resists at all but a tiny range.
/quote]
This is a lie.
Quote:
No they do not, ALL the megas in a gang need to be almost constantly running MWDing to catch the primary or at least get into a range that they can do reasonable damage.
The only laser ship that needs to run its mwd is the single one they are after and maybe those close to it to gain distance, the rest can just burn at normal speed.
Spread your points...(this includes webs). There are very few times where any of that will actually come into play.
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Goumindong
Amarr
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.03.20 05:00:00 -
[930]
Quote:
The reason why the Blaster ships are going to be primary is because they have lower ehp and will be well within the optimal range of all the oposing gang and so will be getting hit by more ships and harder than ships at longer range.
Laser ships will also be in the optimal range of all the opposing gang supposing the opposing gang is using laser ships and long range fit battleships...
The only reason to primary a blaster ship is if its expected DPS/EHP ratio makes it useful to be primaried... The only reason its DPS/EHP ratio is going to be valuable to make it primary is if you expect it to do 30% less DPS or more over the entire fight as a laser ship.(roughly).
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Theron Gyrow
Gradient
Electus Matari
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Posted - 2009.03.20 08:43:00 -
[931]
Originally by: Electric Universe
Edited by: Electric Universe on 20/03/2009 01:40:01
Meh, as long your doing everything right in a gang THAT warps on top of the other enemies gang, they are still gonna pwn the enemies as long the enemies are close to each others.
Let's see. You say that if
1) you're the one warping in
2) you get an on-top warp-in
3) enemies are close to each other
Megathrons will win against equal-sized gangs of similarly-skilled laser BS.
Never mind on that whether that is balanced (it's not; just the first case halves the fights where you claim Megas would be competitive, the rest reduce it much further), it is actually false against competent opponents. Yeah, you will get some kills, and you can probably win over newbies who aren't fitting MWDs on their ships, but that's it. Whee.
--
Gradient forum |
Cohkka
Celestial Apocalypse
|
Posted - 2009.03.20 10:51:00 -
[932]
Originally by: Goumindong
Laser ships will also be in the optimal range of all the opposing gang supposing the opposing gang is using laser ships and long range fit battleships...
False. Even if the other gang only consists of laser BS the Blasterboat is well within MF range, not just scorch. Add drones on top of that and you're speaking of a LOT more damage up close. That's not counting any possible BC/Cruiser sized ships. You're merly twisting semantics in your favor, as usual.
The Mega being called primary has nothing to do with it's effectivenes but rather it being an easy to drop target because it's up close. If a Geddon happens to get very close it becomes primary very fast, as well. The only exception is an Abaddon for obvious reasons.
Quote:
The only thing preventing small gang/solo bs combat is people going out in small gangs or solo battleships. Ironically you going out more in them will encourage others to do the same.
EvE players use the best means possible to achieve their goal (in their own realm of possibilitys of course). "Survival of the fittest" applies to EvE as well. That's why we have things like FOTM. Everyone and their dog is training Amarr and the dog's alts training Falcons.
Don't speak english, just F5, F5, F5... |
Childstar
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Posted - 2009.03.20 10:52:00 -
[933]
Edited by: Childstar on 20/03/2009 10:52:01
Originally by: Goumindong
Armageddon: 8 low slots, 7 Turrets, 33% effective DPS bonus
Abaddon with an RR: 7 low slots, 7 turrets, 25% effective DPS bonus
Your numbers are impossible to reconcile.
By you maybe everybody else does not have a problem with them, although you may wanna factor in that the baddon can easily fit 3 heat sinks and tank and all the other modules.
While the geddon needs to be a little more conservative on its cpu... Originally by: Goumindong
Quote:
Correct the abaddon actually does more dmg than the mega even after resists at all but a tiny range.
This is a lie.
It is the total truth, its just that most amarr pilots try to keep ppl focused on the dmg blasters do at 4.5km and ignore the 30-35km where lasers do more dmg.
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TrollmoreX
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Posted - 2009.03.20 10:57:00 -
[934]
Hi5 goumi i see your still trolling way to go pal.
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Childstar
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Posted - 2009.03.20 11:15:00 -
[935]
Originally by: Theron Gyrow
Originally by: Electric Universe
Edited by: Electric Universe on 20/03/2009 01:40:01
Meh, as long your doing everything right in a gang THAT warps on top of the other enemies gang, they are still gonna pwn the enemies as long the enemies are close to each others.
Let's see. You say that if
1) you're the one warping in
2) you get an on-top warp-in
3) enemies are close to each other
Megathrons will win against equal-sized gangs of similarly-skilled laser BS.
Never mind on that whether that is balanced (it's not; just the first case halves the fights where you claim Megas would be competitive, the rest reduce it much further), it is actually false against competent opponents. Yeah, you will get some kills, and you can probably win over newbies who aren't fitting MWDs on their ships, but that's it. Whee.
This.
1. Even TOTALLY best case scenario where the megas land on top of a gang and that gang just sits till and fights the megas are gonna take heavy losses even if they win.
2. If the oposing gang has any brains at all and burns away the megas lose the small DPS advantage they had and lose.
3. If the fight does not start at the PERFECT range for the megas they would start the fight doing much lower dmg with much weaker tanks and the need to mwd burn heavily while RRing towards every target. In other words they would lose and lose badly with very few kills.
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Mila Prestoc
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Posted - 2009.03.20 11:44:00 -
[936]
I'm just wondering who you guys have been fighting, sounds like some of you've been a in a RR gang in FFA1 on SISI ganking people and are annoyed you couldn't get to the target before it exploded.
Seriously, whenever i've been in a RR BS gang or seen them a number of things usually happen:
a) If you are on the gate and they jump in they will attempt to get back to the gate as it is the center point. This allows them to then RR and/or jump out. This is also why a MWD is important as otherwise you would just be say 15km away slow boating at 100m/s back to gate with nothing in range to RR you.
b) You are on a station, everything is around the undock port.
c) If not on gate/station then typically you get each gang MWD'ing to its primary target. Once that has happened typically both gangs are grouped up so the next target will put both gangs on top of each other if they wern't for the first target. If you have target sat on there own going "IM LAZOR BS! NO NEED FOR MWD!" and the gangs not on top of each other then chances are you would primary them before putting both gangs on top of each other.
Seriously, if your in a BS gang of any size using RR and the targets are spread out they will not be RR'ing, so you should win unless something unusual happens.
-------------------------
Originally by: "Lord Violent"
EvE is slowly becoming a game for the stupid, catered to by devs as they lack ability to kill/survive anything.
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maralt
Minmatar
The seers of truth
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Posted - 2009.03.20 11:49:00 -
[937]
Originally by: Goumindong
The only thing preventing small gang/solo bs combat is people going out in small gangs or solo battleships. Ironically you going out more in them will encourage others to do the same.
Are you insane?.
The available and viable target selection for a solo BS (any BS) to be able to catch hold and kill is so small its almost non existant.
While the list of ships that can kite and kill a single BS or in the very very least easily escape and evade is almost as long as the ship list on the market.
These are the reasons solo BS is nonexistant and the reasons ppl do not do it......, not your feeble excuse of "ppl do not do it cos ppl do not do it".
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Goumindong
Amarr
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.03.20 11:55:00 -
[938]
Originally by: Childstar
By you maybe everybody else does not have a problem with them, although you may wanna factor in that the baddon can easily fit 3 heat sinks and tank and all the other modules.
I don't think you understand what is going on.
You've listed an impossible situation for turret DPS. The Armageddon, when using the same number of turrets, must explicitly have more turret DPS than the Abaddon. It must do so because it has more space for damage mods(typically 3), and has a damage bonus that is stronger in raw DPS(Rof =33% DPS boost, Damage = 25% dps boost)
If the Abaddon has 3 Heat Sinks the Armageddon must necessarily still do 6.4% more gun DPS.
Quote:
While the geddon needs to be a little more conservative on its cpu...
This is ironic considering the dual 3% CPU you sat on a Geddon.
Quote:
It is the total truth, its just that most amarr pilots try to keep ppl focused on the dmg blasters do at 4.5km and ignore the 30-35km where lasers do more dmg.
Yes and No, it is natural that people should point out the advantages of a weapon system over another when the question comes up as "what are the advantages of a weapon system over another". But there is no deception going on.
Would you say "Railgun megas do more damage even after resists at all but a tiny range?" Because its just as true, Pulse ships do more damage from 0-45km and Railships do more damage for the next 125 the Railguns do more DPS(opt+falloff assuming long range ammo) and in the ranges where pulse lasers are better the damage advantage after resists is not very significant unless you're under 15km. So by your basis for arguing 35km of advantage for lasers i can argue 150km of advantage for rails(vs 15 for lasers). That is twice the percentage of range that you claim against blasters for pulse lasers...
But that would be unreasonable, just like your claim is unreasonable.
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Goumindong
Amarr
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.03.20 11:59:00 -
[939]
Originally by: maralt
Originally by: Goumindong
The only thing preventing small gang/solo bs combat is people going out in small gangs or solo battleships. Ironically you going out more in them will encourage others to do the same.
Are you insane?.
The available and viable target selection for a solo BS (any BS) to be able to catch hold and kill is so small its almost non existant.
While the list of ships that can kite and kill a single BS or in the very very least easily escape and evade is almost as long as the ship list on the market.
These are the reasons solo BS is nonexistant and the reasons ppl do not do it......, not your feeble excuse of "ppl do not do it cos ppl do not do it".
Would you like video proof? The video forums are pretty full of "solo combat" of all sorts. Granted, a lot of them lose a lot of ships, but that isn't because they're soloing, but because they have to engage a lot if they want to get enough usable footage in good fights(and if you want good fights you have to engage the risky fights as well as the easy ones).
If you want to play it less risky you can simply engage less.
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Childstar
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Posted - 2009.03.20 12:35:00 -
[940]
Edited by: Childstar on 20/03/2009 12:45:03
Originally by: Goumindong
I don't think you understand what is going on.
You've listed an impossible situation for turret DPS. The Armageddon, when using the same number of turrets, must explicitly have more turret DPS than the Abaddon. It must do so because it has more space for damage mods(typically 3), and has a damage bonus that is stronger in raw DPS(Rof =33% DPS boost, Damage = 25% dps boost)
If the Abaddon has 3 Heat Sinks the Armageddon must necessarily still do 6.4% more gun DPS.
The geddon fit had 2 HS the baddon fit had 3 HS.
With 7 MP each and fitted with scortch the geddon gets 606 gun dps the baddon gets 639 gun dps.
Originally by: Goumindong
Would you say "Railgun megas do more damage even after resists at all but a tiny range?" Because its just as true
You are ignoring something.
Large blaster available range is 4.5km +13km with AM and 11km +16km with null and within that 0-27km blaster band lasers do 70% dmg initially then match or out damage blasters even against a tank that favors kin/therm from 8-10km onwards to 27km.
So for the first 33ish% of blasters available range pulse do 70% to 100% of blaster dmg against a tank that favors kin/therm and for the other 66% of blasters available range lasers initially match then easily out damage blasters against the same kin/therm prefered tank.
NOW.
Large pulse available range is 15km+10km with MF and 45km +10km with SCORCH and within that 0-55km range RAILS even with AM loaded do a lot less than 70% dmg in the first 33% (538dps vs 916dps these are RAW DPS figures as i do not have the results vs omni tank).
And for the other 66% of laser range lasers still out damage rails vs omni tanks that favor kin/therm until we are at the very edge of pulse lasers available range and well into there falloff (in other words the point that lasers miss a lot).
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irion felpamy
Minmatar
HellJumpers Corp
United For 0rder
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Posted - 2009.03.20 12:36:00 -
[941]
Why are people not concerned about the massive damage autocannons do? My active tanked maelstrom can do double figure dps out to around 100km. lets see a blaster boat do that (ps sentries are cheating)
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maralt
Minmatar
The seers of truth
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Posted - 2009.03.20 12:42:00 -
[942]
Originally by: Goumindong
Originally by: maralt
Originally by: Goumindong
The only thing preventing small gang/solo bs combat is people going out in small gangs or solo battleships. Ironically you going out more in them will encourage others to do the same.
Are you insane?.
The available and viable target selection for a solo BS (any BS) to be able to catch hold and kill is so small its almost non existant.
While the list of ships that can kite and kill a single BS or in the very very least easily escape and evade is almost as long as the ship list on the market.
These are the reasons solo BS is nonexistant and the reasons ppl do not do it......, not your feeble excuse of "ppl do not do it cos ppl do not do it".
Would you like video proof? The video forums are pretty full of "solo combat" of all sorts. Granted, a lot of them lose a lot of ships, but that isn't because they're soloing, but because they have to engage a lot if they want to get enough usable footage in good fights(and if you want good fights you have to engage the risky fights as well as the easy ones).
If you want to play it less risky you can simply engage less.
By all means link this uber long list of solo blaster BS on TQ (from after the web reduction patch/expansion) roaming around, catching and killing various ships...
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Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
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Posted - 2009.03.20 12:44:00 -
[943]
Originally by: Theron Gyrow
Originally by: Electric Universe
Edited by: Electric Universe on 20/03/2009 01:40:01
Meh, as long your doing everything right in a gang THAT warps on top of the other enemies gang, they are still gonna pwn the enemies as long the enemies are close to each others.
Let's see. You say that if
1) you're the one warping in
2) you get an on-top warp-in
3) enemies are close to each other
Megathrons will win against equal-sized gangs of similarly-skilled laser BS.
Never mind on that whether that is balanced (it's not; just the first case halves the fights where you claim Megas would be competitive, the rest reduce it much further), it is actually false against competent opponents. Yeah, you will get some kills, and you can probably win over newbies who aren't fitting MWDs on their ships, but that's it. Whee.
This must be the stupiest thing here. We have to fight against noobs only because we do the things as i said over here?.
Dude, don't you have better excuses to come with[:roll:?.
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Childstar
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Posted - 2009.03.20 12:57:00 -
[944]
Originally by: Electric Universe
Originally by: Theron Gyrow
Originally by: Electric Universe
Meh, as long your doing everything right in a gang THAT warps on top of the other enemies gang, they are still gonna pwn the enemies as long the enemies are close to each others.
Let's see. You say that if
1) you're the one warping in
2) you get an on-top warp-in
3) enemies are close to each other
Megathrons will win against equal-sized gangs of similarly-skilled laser BS.
Never mind on that whether that is balanced (it's not; just the first case halves the fights where you claim Megas would be competitive, the rest reduce it much further), it is actually false against competent opponents. Yeah, you will get some kills, and you can probably win over newbies who aren't fitting MWDs on their ships, but that's it. Whee.
This must be the stupiest thing here. We have to fight against noobs only because we do the things as i said over here?.
Dude, don't you have better excuses to come with[:roll:?.
Well i suppose a case could be made for your targets being noobs or at least lacking experiance, i mean how many experianced BS gangs just sit still and allow a gang of blaster BS of roughly equal numbers or at least large enough to beat/outfight them to warp directly on top of them?.
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Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
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Posted - 2009.03.20 13:01:00 -
[945]
Edited by: Electric Universe on 20/03/2009 13:04:29
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: Electric Universe
Originally by: Theron Gyrow
Originally by: Electric Universe
Meh, as long your doing everything right in a gang THAT warps on top of the other enemies gang, they are still gonna pwn the enemies as long the enemies are close to each others.
Let's see. You say that if
1) you're the one warping in
2) you get an on-top warp-in
3) enemies are close to each other
Megathrons will win against equal-sized gangs of similarly-skilled laser BS.
Never mind on that whether that is balanced (it's not; just the first case halves the fights where you claim Megas would be competitive, the rest reduce it much further), it is actually false against competent opponents. Yeah, you will get some kills, and you can probably win over newbies who aren't fitting MWDs on their ships, but that's it. Whee.
This must be the stupiest thing here. We have to fight against noobs only because we do the things as i said over here?.
Dude, don't you have better excuses to come with[:roll:?.
Well i suppose a case could be made for your targets being noobs or at least lacking experiance, i mean how many experianced BS gangs just sit still and allow a gang of blaster BS of roughly equal numbers or at least large enough to beat/outfight them to warp directly on top of them?.
Well, i'm not the person who only run from an equal sized enemy gang only because we can.
Either the Megathron gang will warp in at their best range and start a fight, or they will not start the fight at all if the targets are way to spread out. It's all about thinking and using your brain before you start a fight or warp in.
I WANT A DAMN FIGHT. I don't care what they are in, but i just want to pew pew whatever reason. It's all about having fun dude. And i think the other gang says the same.
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Childstar
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Posted - 2009.03.20 13:08:00 -
[946]
Edited by: Childstar on 20/03/2009 13:15:27
Originally by: Electric Universe
Hahahaha, look at all of this whining.
To you number 2. How many times do i have to say that when you warp in 10 Megas to 10 other BS'es, then you don't web only the primary dude.
You will most likely web half of the enemie gang, at least.
Maybe maybe not but it does not matter as the fact remains that the ones not webbed will be quickly out of range and even those that are webbed can still burn with enough speed to be well outside the tiny range blasters have the dps advantage long before the primary is dead. And then they have the dps and ehp advantage in their favor and the blaster boys are in real trouble.
Originally by: Electric Universe
To you number 3. I don't think any smart Megathron pilots in a gang would warp in when THEY KNOW they will land long way from the enemies.
How many times do i have to tell that to before any of you get it?.
So like you said earlier the oposing gang needs to be sitting still and not moving and just allow a blaster gang to warp right on top of them for the blaster gang to stand even a chance of winning, but for a gaurenteed blaster win they also need to sit still after the blaster ships land and not burn some distance.
You are going to allow them to actually fire back i hope cos if so even in that utterly unrealistic and favorable scenario you have imagined above the blaster ships still take significant losses.
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Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
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Posted - 2009.03.20 13:21:00 -
[947]
Originally by: Childstar
Edited by: Childstar on 20/03/2009 13:15:27
Originally by: Electric Universe
Hahahaha, look at all of this whining.
To you number 2. How many times do i have to say that when you warp in 10 Megas to 10 other BS'es, then you don't web only the primary dude.
You will most likely web half of the enemie gang, at least.
Maybe maybe not but it does not matter as the fact remains that the ones not webbed will be quickly out of range and even those that are webbed can still burn with enough speed to be well outside the tiny range blasters have the dps advantage long before the primary is dead. And then they have the dps and ehp advantage in their favor and the blaster boys are in real trouble.
Originally by: Electric Universe
To you number 3. I don't think any smart Megathron pilots in a gang would warp in when THEY KNOW they will land long way from the enemies.
How many times do i have to tell that to before any of you get it?.
So like you said earlier the oposing gang needs to be sitting still and not moving and just allow a blaster gang to warp right on top of them for the blaster gang to stand even a chance of winning, but for a gaurenteed blaster win they also need to sit still after the blaster ships land and not burn some distance.
You are going to allow them to actually fire back i hope cos if so even in that utterly unrealistic and favorable scenario you have imagined above the blaster ships still take significant losses.
They will not take much losses if the Megathrons are RR fitted. When Megathrons can fight 2:1 outnumbered and get lots of kills with no losses, then they for sure can take no losses to an equal size enemy gang. No matter what you say.
This is ofc for skilled players who knows EXACTLY what they are doing.
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Childstar
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Posted - 2009.03.20 13:50:00 -
[948]
Originally by: Electric Universe
They will not take much losses if the Megathrons are RR fitted. When Megathrons can fight 2:1 outnumbered and get lots of kills with no losses, then they for sure can take no losses to an equal size enemy gang. No matter what you say.
This is ofc for skilled players who knows EXACTLY what they are doing.
VS idiots who just sit still and wait for it and whave no RR fitted themselves?...great....
If there is one thing this forum shows its those who have actually done the things they talk about in the ships they talk about regularly on TQ and those who have not and just spout theory and possability relative to how they think the ship can perform because of its abilities.
Unfortunatly these people are easy to spot because there scenarios are always one sided, totally favorable and utterly ignore the fact that the oposing gang may have a single brain cell and react and counter the pitifully simplistic tactics they think are so clever.
Why dont you try imagining yourself in the other gang for a second.
FIRSTLY ask yourself how badly you screwed up by letting those megas land on top of you.
Ask yourself if you would realistically ever let it happen.
Ask yourself that even if you did have a total brain lapse and did let it happen if you would sit still and not instantly start burning away before they even started locking you.
Then continue that line of thinking and add to it the fact that you have more EHP, you have equal or more dmg at every range apart from 4.5-8km and even at those ranges you still get 70% of what the blasters are doing, and that do not need to burn to that 4.5km range for every single ship you primary.
I fly and have flown blaster ships for years so i know exactly how they perform now and in those situations and that is why i trained amarr, you have not so until you do stop with the naive theoretical spouting and try listening.
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Theron Gyrow
Gradient
Electus Matari
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Posted - 2009.03.20 13:56:00 -
[949]
Originally by: Electric Universe
To your first thing, it really depends on what kind of ships they are in. If they are in geddons or Abaddons without MWD's, then i think they will have a big problem. I know someone that fits MWD on both a Geddon and an Abaddon, but that's not many who are doing that.
If you're facing Geddons or Abaddons without MWDs, you are facing people who don't know what they are doing. Yes, you can win fights against inexperienced people, that is not the question. The point is that you are always better off with laser BS.
Quote:
And then to you next thing. They will not take much losses if the Megathrons are RR fitted. When Megathrons can fight 2:1 outnumbered with RR and get lots of kills with no losses, then they for sure can take no losses to an equal size enemy gang. No matter what you say.
This is ofc for skilled players who knows EXACTLY what they are doing.
"No matter what the facts are, this is THE TRUTH." *sigh* Yes, what you say can happen - if the opposing side doesn't know how to fly their ships. As for the "skilled players" bit... Are you familiar with the self-sealing fallacy?
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Gradient forum |
Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
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Posted - 2009.03.20 13:59:00 -
[950]
Edited by: Electric Universe on 20/03/2009 14:03:29
Originally by: Childstar
FIRSTLY ask yourself how badly you screwed up by letting those megas land on top of you.
I asked my self, and i answered my self, i don't care, i want a fight whatever they are in and whatever ships they are in.
Ask your self then, do you want a fight or not?.
If you want a fight, then let them warp in and start the fight. Ofc we can do it the other way that the enemies are the gang who are warping in on the Mega gang, then it might be something selse.
But i'm only talking about when the Mega gang warps in ON YOU.
A gang with Megathrons always have a Covert Ops in position so they can warp in on the enemy gang anyways. Or they have that in 90% of the cases anyways.
So, if the Megathrons warps in on you and start the fight, then you better run yeah, as you said, if not, your going to get slaughtered hard.
But running from a fight is not winning a fight though. So you better stay and fight if you want to TRY and win the fight.
Originally by: Theron Gyrow
If you're facing Geddons or Abaddons without MWDs, you are facing people who don't know what they are doing. Yes, you can win fights against inexperienced people, that is not the question. The point is that you are always better off with laser BS.
Do you really want me to tell this to Kil2?.
And no, what the FOTM chaser is noting i will listen to. Laser BS'es is not always the best. Yes i have said that Laser BS'es are best in some situations, and i agree to that, like the Megathron is best in some situations.
There is NO BS'es that are best at everything. The thing with that what BS'es is best in PVP, is something that noobs are asking.
Anyways, be back later today. Gonna help my friend with his Nissan 200SX S14a Sport Line car, yarrrrrr.
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Childstar
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Posted - 2009.03.20 14:15:00 -
[951]
Edited by: Childstar on 20/03/2009 14:25:12
Originally by: Electric Universe
I asked my self, and i answered my self, i don't care, i want a fight whatever they are in and whatever ships they are in.
So, if the Megathrons warps in on you and start the fight, then you better run yeah, as you said, if not, your going to get slaughtered hard.
But running from a fight is not winning a fight though. So you better stay and fight if you want to TRY and win the fight.
So your answer is "i would not normally let them but if i say that i lose the argument, so il pretend im letting them on perpose cos all i care about is the fight"...
And i did not say run away i said burn away as gaining even a little distance will make the blasters dmg suck while yours is still high along with your EHP advantage.
Strange how i clearly pointed that out in my initial post but you snipped and ignored it then tried to twist it into a totally differant comment about running away......
Transparant much?...
Originally by: Electric Universe
Laser BS'es is not always the best. Yes i have said that Laser BS'es are best in some situations, and i agree to that, like the Megathron is best in some situations.
The situations where a pulse BS is worse choice for actual combat compared to a blaster BS are not only extraordinarily small but also virtually non existant on TQ.
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Theron Gyrow
Gradient
Electus Matari
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Posted - 2009.03.20 14:25:00 -
[952]
Originally by: Electric Universe
But running from a fight is not winning a fight though. So you better stay and fight if you want to TRY and win the fight.
The concept of opening the range and then easily winning a fight is really this difficult to grasp? I'm starting to understand why you think that blaster BS are a feasible option.
Quote:
Originally by: Theron Gyrow
If you're facing Geddons or Abaddons without MWDs, you are facing people who don't know what they are doing. Yes, you can win fights against inexperienced people, that is not the question. The point is that you are always better off with laser BS.
Do you really want me to tell this to Kil2?.
And no, what the FOTM chaser is noting i will listen to. Laser BS'es is not always the best. Yes i have said that Laser BS'es are best in some situations, and i agree to that, like the Megathron is best in some situations.
There is NO BS'es that are best at everything. The thing with that what BS'es is best in PVP, is something that noobs are asking.
Yes. The problem is that there is a type of BS that is pretty much worst at everything. Blaster BS are good for station camping if there is no risk of outside help, and that's pretty much it. For everything else, no matter how well you fly it, a well-flown laser BS is better.
Laser ships aren't the best for all cases, though - if you know that you are going against other BS, RR shield Ravens are very good; for gate camping, RR Tempests/Typhoons with RSB2s and TDs in the mids are good; etc. There is just never any reason to pick a blaster BS.
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Gradient forum |
Childstar
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Posted - 2009.03.20 14:34:00 -
[953]
Edited by: Childstar on 20/03/2009 15:13:58
Originally by: Theron Gyrow
Yes. The problem is that there is a type of BS that is pretty much worst at everything. Blaster BS are good for station camping if there is no risk of outside help, and that's pretty much it. For everything else, no matter how well you fly it, a well-flown laser BS is better.
Actually while blaster BS are ok at station camping (lets fact it, its hardly rocket science) id still prefer a gang of laser ships for the job given the choice.
They get almost the same DPS output of blasters in this situation but they can put out that damage at a range that very few of the undocking ships (apart from other laser ships) can actually reach with any significant dmg. So they get not only quite simular dmg out put but a range tank that only other laser ships can reach as well as their existing greater EHP buffer as well.
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Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
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Posted - 2009.03.20 15:39:00 -
[954]
Edited by: Electric Universe on 20/03/2009 15:46:32
Originally by: Theron Gyrow
Originally by: Electric Universe
But running from a fight is not winning a fight though. So you better stay and fight if you want to TRY and win the fight.
The concept of opening the range and then easily winning a fight is really this difficult to grasp? I'm starting to understand why you think that blaster BS are a feasible option.
Quote:
Originally by: Theron Gyrow
If you're facing Geddons or Abaddons without MWDs, you are facing people who don't know what they are doing. Yes, you can win fights against inexperienced people, that is not the question. The point is that you are always better off with laser BS.
Do you really want me to tell this to Kil2?.
And no, what the FOTM chaser is noting i will listen to. Laser BS'es is not always the best. Yes i have said that Laser BS'es are best in some situations, and i agree to that, like the Megathron is best in some situations.
There is NO BS'es that are best at everything. The thing with that what BS'es is best in PVP, is something that noobs are asking.
Yes. The problem is that there is a type of BS that is pretty much worst at everything. Blaster BS are good for station camping if there is no risk of outside help, and that's pretty much it. For everything else, no matter how well you fly it, a well-flown laser BS is better.
Laser ships aren't the best for all cases, though - if you know that you are going against other BS, RR shield Ravens are very good; for gate camping, RR Tempests/Typhoons with RSB2s and TDs in the mids are good; etc. There is just never any reason to pick a blaster BS.
Posting from my friends computer now.
No matter how much you are bitten by the FOTM idiots, it's not gonna change that there is nothing that is called that a Laser BS is better than any BS'es ingame. Yes the Laser BS'es are better than other BS'es in some things, while like a Megathron is better than a Laser BS at something. And it's that for every ships.
Saying a Laser BS is best at everything is the stupiest crap i have ever heard in EVE.
LOL. Thanks for admitting that you are all noobs by saying that. Because there are ONLY noobs who thinks that one BS is best at everything.
Blasters are extremely good at gate PVP and station PVP and when your gang with Blaster Megas are the gang who are warping in on the enemies, but hey, most of the fight are happening there in low sec and empire anyways.
Also, saying a Laser BS can do the same DPS as a Neutron Mega is also bull****. Well you can get the same DPS, but then you melt faster than snow.
So Child, what's your point about that?.
END OF STORY.
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Childstar
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Posted - 2009.03.20 16:08:00 -
[955]
Edited by: Childstar on 20/03/2009 16:11:07
Originally by: Electric Universe
Posting from my friends computer now.
Maybe you should get your need to troll under control.
Originally by: Electric Universe
Saying a Laser BS is best at everything is the stupiest crap i have ever heard in EVE.
Who said laser BS are best at everything?...are youi hearing voices again??.
Laser BS are by far the better at all the reasonably available types of pvp for BS on TQ than blaster BS.
Originally by: Electric Universe
Blasters are extremely good at gate PVP and station PVP and when your gang with Blaster Megas are the gang who are warping in on the enemies.
Laser BS are better at gate and station pvp than blaster BS.
Originally by: Electric Universe
Child, saying a Laser BS can do the same DPS as a Neutron Mega is also bull****. Well you can get the same DPS, but then you melt faster than snow.
Its not bull its the truth, in fact at all but a tiny window where lasers do good damage anyway pulse out damage blasters.
Your problem is that you cannot get past the utterly and insignificantly tiny range that blasters do 16%ish more dmg than lasers (yea yea it works out to 30% against certain tanks).
Originally by: Electric Universe
EDIT: Child and Theron Gyrow, since both of you clearly don't know how Gallente is, then take a look here: http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm?setview=features&bhcp=1&gameid=14&loadfeature=2822
Now, wanna prove that link to be wrong to?.
Well at least that confirms our points about where you get your blaster and general pvp ideas and experiance about TQ from......
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Xianbei
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Posted - 2009.03.20 19:01:00 -
[956]
Originally by: El Dracula
Edited by: El Dracula on 12/03/2009 10:49:32
I barely ever use the Abaddon because if you read my post, it is for use in RR BS gangs. Therefore, if I were to use an Abaddon, I would have to drop a gun for a rep, and with only a 75m3 drone bay and 7 guns, its DPS would be subpar in comparison with the Armageddon.
Granted the Abaddon has epic EHP, but EHP has a useful limit tbh, after which it's just showing off
im training up amarr BS right now and wanted some clarification on this comment
is the geddon rof bonus worth more than the dmg bonus on the baddon ? because your above example has both ships with 7 turrets when fit for RR....or is it the heavy drones that gives the geddon the advantage ?
is there much of a diff between a rof and dmg bonus ? i dont do math well :-(
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Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Blackguard Coalition
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Posted - 2009.03.20 19:25:00 -
[957]
Originally by: Xianbei
im training up amarr BS right now and wanted some clarification on this comment
is the geddon rof bonus worth more than the dmg bonus on the baddon ? because your above example has both ships with 7 turrets when fit for RR....or is it the heavy drones that gives the geddon the advantage ?
is there much of a diff between a rof and dmg bonus ? i dont do math well :-(
Yes. It looks like this:
"25% ROF bonus" == 1 - .25
So that we see the total damage is:
1 / (1-.25) = 1 / .75 = 1.333333
With a damage bonus we see:
1 * 1.25 = 1.25
Thus, ROF > Damage.
-Liang
--
Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
www.kwikdeath.org |
maralt
Minmatar
The seers of truth
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Posted - 2009.03.20 19:38:00 -
[958]
Edited by: maralt on 20/03/2009 19:45:13
Edited by: maralt on 20/03/2009 19:43:21
Originally by: Xianbei
Originally by: El Dracula
I barely ever use the Abaddon because if you read my post, it is for use in RR BS gangs. Therefore, if I were to use an Abaddon, I would have to drop a gun for a rep, and with only a 75m3 drone bay and 7 guns, its DPS would be subpar in comparison with the Armageddon.
Granted the Abaddon has epic EHP, but EHP has a useful limit tbh, after which it's just showing off
im training up amarr BS right now and wanted some clarification on this comment
is the geddon rof bonus worth more than the dmg bonus on the baddon ? because your above example has both ships with 7 turrets when fit for RR....or is it the heavy drones that gives the geddon the advantage ?
is there much of a diff between a rof and dmg bonus ? i dont do math well :-(
Abaddon with 7 mega pulse and 3 heat sinks gets 802 gun dps with MF + 205 drone dmg if ogreII's are used with max skills.
Geddon with 7 mega pulse and 3 heat sinks gets 855 gun dps with MF + 317 drone dmg with max skills.
So it depends on how much you value the little extra INSTANT damage from the guns and the DELAYED dmg you get from the drones.
Along with the fact that a triple heat sink geddon with RR is a pig to fit and has a lot less EHP while the baddon is easy to fit the lot onto and has a monster EHP tank + well over 1200 more cap for RR (the geddons cap bonus to guns does not effect the RR).
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Trader20
|
Posted - 2009.03.20 19:57:00 -
[959]
Edited by: Trader20 on 20/03/2009 19:58:44
Originally by: Theron Gyrow
Originally by: Electric Universe
Edited by: Electric Universe on 20/03/2009 01:40:01
Meh, as long your doing everything right in a gang THAT warps on top of the other enemies gang, they are still gonna pwn the enemies as long the enemies are close to each others.
Let's see. You say that if
1) you're the one warping in
2) you get an on-top warp-in
3) enemies are close to each other
Megathrons will win against equal-sized gangs of similarly-skilled laser BS.
Never mind on that whether that is balanced (it's not; just the first case halves the fights where you claim Megas would be competitive, the rest reduce it much further), it is actually false against competent opponents. Yeah, you will get some kills, and you can probably win over newbies who aren't fitting MWDs on their ships, but that's it. Whee.
But your forgetting a fundamental element of blaster pvp, (dual) webs and scram, so when/if a blaster does land ontop of it's target it's almost guaranteed to melt the target ship faster then anther other bs attacking it because of the damage amount and type of damage blaster deal.
Probelm is after the first target you landed on is taken care of then the mwd fun starts and this is where pulses's have a huge advantage, the ability to hit pretty much everything inside the (most common) pvp sphere (-+ 30km) without having to mwd. So for anything other then station camps or 1v1 (which don't really happen anymore) the pulse amarr bs will always have the advantage.
So I say again, the blaster is a situational gun....problem is most situations pluses's can do it better.
Edit: CCP how hard would it be to add a spellcheck for iliterat ppl like me?
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Harrana
Total Mayhem.
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Posted - 2009.03.20 20:14:00 -
[960]
Jeez, this thread has gone on for a while.
I'm of the opinion that no module or ship in this game is totally rubbish, and, when used properly, can be used effectively.
I have barely ever encountered a problem with tracking in my Megathron, and that's with Neutron IIs and Void. However, I will concede that it becomes a pain in the arse during prolonged engagements when I have to MWD around a bit to use my DPS. With Null, the range is less of an issue, but it is far from perfect. As far as I'm concerned, that is the price I pay for getting top damage on the killmails on the initial warp in.
The Geddon on my main is also sweet for damage but does not enough to compete with in-range Megas. When the fight stretches out, however, it comes into its own.
TL;DR - Blasters are fine by me, kk?
----------
This space is for rent.
That makes me a rent boy.
Contact me for details. |
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Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Blackguard Coalition
|
Posted - 2009.03.20 20:22:00 -
[961]
Originally by: Harrana
I'm of the opinion that no module or ship in this game is totally rubbish, and, when used properly, can be used effectively.
Procurer. Outmined by the Osprey. ;-)
-Liang
--
Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
www.kwikdeath.org |
Ad Valorem
|
Posted - 2009.03.20 20:48:00 -
[962]
Originally by: Trader20
But your forgetting a fundamental element of blaster pvp, (dual) webs and scram, so when/if a blaster does land ontop of it's target it's almost guaranteed to melt the target ship faster then anther other bs attacking it because of the damage amount and type of damage blaster deal.
Probelm is after the first target you landed on is taken care of then the mwd fun starts and this is where pulses's have a huge advantage, the ability to hit pretty much everything inside the (most common) pvp sphere (-+ 30km) without having to mwd. So for anything other then station camps or 1v1 (which don't really happen anymore) the pulse amarr bs will always have the advantage.
So I say again, the blaster is a situational gun....problem is most situations pluses's can do it better.
Edit: CCP how hard would it be to add a spellcheck for iliterat ppl like me?
Decent summary. ASSUMING a mega lands on top of its target and dual webs it you would hope to drop it. You'd be lucky to be able to MWD anywhere after that however because you would be out of cap (no cap booster if you fit 2 webs). |
maralt
Minmatar
The seers of truth
|
Posted - 2009.03.20 20:56:00 -
[963]
Originally by: Ad Valorem
Originally by: Trader20
But your forgetting a fundamental element of blaster pvp, (dual) webs and scram, so when/if a blaster does land ontop of it's target it's almost guaranteed to melt the target ship faster then anther other bs attacking it because of the damage amount and type of damage blaster deal.
Probelm is after the first target you landed on is taken care of then the mwd fun starts and this is where pulses's have a huge advantage, the ability to hit pretty much everything inside the (most common) pvp sphere (-+ 30km) without having to mwd. So for anything other then station camps or 1v1 (which don't really happen anymore) the pulse amarr bs will always have the advantage.
So I say again, the blaster is a situational gun....problem is most situations pluses's can do it better.
Edit: CCP how hard would it be to add a spellcheck for iliterat ppl like me?
Decent summary. ASSUMING a mega lands on top of its target and dual webs it you would hope to drop it. You'd be lucky to be able to MWD anywhere after that however because you would be out of cap (no cap booster if you fit 2 webs).
Proly refering to the hyperion..
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Trader20
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Posted - 2009.03.20 21:22:00 -
[964]
Originally by: maralt
Edited by: maralt on 20/03/2009 21:02:07
Originally by: Ad Valorem
Originally by: Trader20
quote]
Decent summary. ASSUMING a mega lands on top of its target and dual webs it you would hope to drop it. You'd be lucky to be able to MWD anywhere after that however because you would be out of cap (no cap booster if you fit 2 webs).
Proly refering to the hyperion although the situation only really applies to 1 v 1 BS i think as 2 webs on a hyperion make very little differance in a BS gang fight when most of the BS in it will each have a web fitted.
Well assuming your in gang (which is pretty much all the time if you pvp)even if your fit doesn't have dual webs on it the primary target will have about 4 or 5 webs on him because of your gang members webbing him up.
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Ad Valorem
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Posted - 2009.03.20 21:37:00 -
[965]
Originally by: Trader20
Well assuming your in gang (which is pretty much all the time if you pvp)even if your fit doesn't have dual webs on it the primary target will have about 4 or 5 webs on him because of your gang members webbing him up.
Not if the gang is all flying Amarr, which they are these days!
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Childstar
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Posted - 2009.03.20 21:40:00 -
[966]
Originally by: Ad Valorem
Originally by: Trader20
Well assuming your in gang (which is pretty much all the time if you pvp)even if your fit doesn't have dual webs on it the primary target will have about 4 or 5 webs on him because of your gang members webbing him up.
Not if the gang is all flying Amarr, which they are these days!
4 mids gives more than enough room for a mwd, point, web and injector on each.
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Irida Mershkov
Gallente
Shadowsun Syndicate
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Posted - 2009.03.20 21:56:00 -
[967]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: Harrana
I'm of the opinion that no module or ship in this game is totally rubbish, and, when used properly, can be used effectively.
Procurer. Outmined by the Osprey. ;-)
-Liang
Can be used effectively at reprocessing I guess.
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Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
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Posted - 2009.03.21 00:58:00 -
[968]
Edited by: Electric Universe on 21/03/2009 01:04:49
Originally by: Childstar
Edited by: Childstar on 20/03/2009 16:41:32
Originally by: Electric Universe
Posting from my friends computer now.
Maybe you should get your need to troll under control.
Originally by: Electric Universe
Saying a Laser BS is best at everything is the stupiest crap i have ever heard in EVE.
Who said laser BS are best at everything?...are you hearing voices again as he says quite clearly the laser ships are NOT the best at everything.....
Laser BS are by far better at all the reasonably available types of pvp for BS on TQ than blaster BS are.
Originally by: Electric Universe
Blasters are extremely good at gate PVP and station PVP and when your gang with Blaster Megas are the gang who are warping in on the enemies.
Laser BS are better at gate and station pvp than blaster BS.
Originally by: Electric Universe
Child, saying a Laser BS can do the same DPS as a Neutron Mega is also bull****. Well you can get the same DPS, but then you melt faster than snow.
Its not bull its the truth, in fact at all but a tiny window where lasers do good damage anyway pulse out damage blasters.
Your problem is that you cannot get past the utterly and insignificantly tiny range that blasters do 16%ish more dmg than lasers (yea yea it works out to 30% against certain tanks).
Originally by: Electric Universe
EDIT: Child and Theron Gyrow, since both of you clearly don't know how Gallente is, then take a look here: http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm?setview=features&bhcp=1&gameid=14&loadfeature=2822
Now, wanna prove that link to be wrong to?.
Well at least that confirms our points about where you get your blaster and general pvp ideas and experiance about TQ from......
Haha, first off, congrats for saying i was trolling when i was giving you all the facts, AGAIN.
Everytime i give you some fact, you all accuse me of trolling. Nice way of proving me wrong. Maybe you should stop trolling your self with the utter bullcrap that Lasers do more DPS than Blasters.
To the second thing, you said i was telling that Laser bs'es are best and then told me that you didn't had said that Lasers BS'es are best at everything, but then why are you saying that Lasers ARE better than Blasters?.
If your telling that Lasers are better than Blasters, then you are clearly saying that Lasers are better than Blasters in every possible way.
Do you mind explaining a bit more when you talk, so peoples can understand what you say?.
Blasters are WAY better in close range than Lasers is by miles.
Lasers are better than Blasters at med ranges by miles.
Blasters have better tracking than Lasers at CLOSE RANGE.
Saying a Laser BS is better than a Blaster BS at gate camping or station PVP is also not true. Try meeting a Megathron gang with RR's fitted. They will whoop the Laser BS'es ass then.
Yes, if the Megas doesn't have RR fitted, then it might be something else. The chance that Amarr BS'es is going to win over an RR fitted Mega gang is as small as finding a needle on the earth from the moon.
Well, we MIGHT meet some RR geddons to, but they are going to have so crap resists to Kinetic and Thermal that they are going to pop before they can even ask for RR in the gang they are in. And their DPS will be so poor that the Megathrons will just LOL at you.
And to the last thing. Yes i proved you all wrong by that link. And then you had to come with that funny & poor coment that i had learned all of my PVP from that link.
Wow, didn't you see that i already gave the same reasons as explained in that link many many days before that link was even posted?.
Congrats for such a wonderfull post from you. I think that proved even more about you whiners here.
And i have 2 words to say to all of you FOTM warriors a here. STOP WHINING.
Learn how PVP works. Before you comment anything here.
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Hell'n
|
Posted - 2009.03.21 02:03:00 -
[969]
sisi warriors unite!!!!!!!
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The Djego
Minmatar
merovinger inc
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Posted - 2009.03.21 02:10:00 -
[970]
This Tread basicly sucks, a lot of alts crushing EFT numbers, argumenting on links to KMs that arn¦t her KMs, links to Threads/Vids that arn¦t theres and even lol this thread about Gallente(hint this is like it should be, not like it is} and are simply trolling in the end.
Mega = effective RR BS, dream on while MWDing out of RR range to get into Blaster Range or wasing your DPS advantage shooting stuff with Null in Falloff.
Comparing RR Gangs with non RR Gangs, also dream on, this isn¦t realsitc on TQ(if you don¦t bashing noobs).
To the guy stating he got no tracking Issues with Void, well get the **** out off your 10+ Ships gangs and you will realize why people considering useing Void as Fail.
To Goum, I think the KM and the actual combat replay should show you how it realy works out in real fights(****ing 100% DPS advantage vs 100% EHP advantage under perfect conditions and still ending deep into Structure). Im kind of anoyed of getting loled by this people for maxing out the Mega and applying as mutch DPS as actual possible(don¦t crush the numbers Mega + Drones + Tracking Bonus will put as mutch DPS on the Target as possible in real TQ gameplay, beside fully gank fitted Shield tanked Hype ).
You underestimating the time to get in range by a huge amount. You underestimating the EHP that a Blaster ship have to overcome to kill a target before it dies. 30%, even 50% DPS advantage isn¦t this powerfull today after taking the get in range + EHP diffrence into account. You argumenting to ballance the Blaster BS around situations it actual fails on TQ.
----
Nerf Tank - Boost Gank!
Originally by: Amantus
Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
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Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
|
Posted - 2009.03.21 02:33:00 -
[971]
Originally by: The Djego
Comparing RR Gangs with non RR Gangs, also dream on, this isn¦t realsitc on TQ(if you don¦t bashing noobs).
Tell me how often you find Laser BS'es with RR fitted, and tell me how often you find Blaster Megas with RR fitted.
When you find out about that, then you will see why i compare an RR Blaster Mega gang to a Laser BS gang without RR fitted.
To say it how it is. The chance that your gonna find an RR Laser BS gang is very very small.
And mostly of the Blaster Megas today have an RR fitted. So the chance that your going to have an RR Blaster Mega or other Gallente BS'es with RR fitted against an RR fitted Laser BS gang is more unrealistic than anything else.
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Koloch
Amarr
|
Posted - 2009.03.21 02:34:00 -
[972]
Edited by: Koloch on 21/03/2009 02:35:29
Originally by: The Djego
This Tread basicly sucks, a lot of alts crushing EFT numbers, argumenting on links to KMs that arn¦t her KMs, links to Threads/Vids that arn¦t theres
Here's what you don't get. Just because the person isn't linked to the killmail or the vid doesn't discount the proof that people can get these ships to work as intended.
You forget that the people posting fly with people that fly blaster ships - it's not like amarr pilots only fly with other amarr pilot...unless of course you believe the crap that no one flys blaster boats any more.
Originally by: The Djego
To the guy stating he got no tracking Issues with Void, well get the **** out off your 10+ Ships gangs and you will realize why people considering useing Void as Fail.
I actually popped an AF with Void last night.
Originally by: The Djego
30%, even 50% DPS advantage isn¦t this powerfull today after taking the get in range + EHP diffrence into account. You argumenting to ballance the Blaster BS around situations it actual fails on TQ.
So how would you propose CCP balance this. How about calculate the time it takes a blaster ship to travel 40km and figure out the DPS needed to overcome a target once in optimal then boost by that amount? That sounds pretty fair I mean a blaster ship should always win a fight as long as it can get into range right ? Blaster pilots have be spewing that same garbage for years "nothing should survive a blaster boat when it gets into range"
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Tal Kjelthorne
Kjelthorne Industries
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Posted - 2009.03.21 03:05:00 -
[973]
Originally by: Trader20
Edited by: Trader20 on 20/03/2009 19:58:44
Edit: CCP how hard would it be to add a spellcheck for iliterat ppl like me?
Try *NOT* using Internet Explorer. There are these great web browsers out, called Firefox, Safari, Chrome. They ALL have a built in spell check.
Just saying.
/end derail
___________
I reserve the right to be wrong.
We the Unwilling
Lead by the Unknowing... |
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Blackguard Coalition
|
Posted - 2009.03.21 03:05:00 -
[974]
Originally by: Koloch
Here's what you don't get. Just because the person isn't linked to the killmail or the vid doesn't discount the proof that people can get these ships to work as intended.
I can't even parse this sentence. FFS, plz fix it.
Quote:
You forget that the people posting fly with people that fly blaster ships - it's not like amarr pilots only fly with other amarr pilot...unless of course you believe the crap that no one flys blaster boats any more.
It's funny that the people that actually fly the blaster ships are posting too....saying that they're generally not worthwhile. ;-)
Quote:
Blaster pilots have been spewing that same garbage for years "nothing should survive a blaster boat when it gets into range"
So what, they're supposed to risk everything, go balls out, and then not be able to kill something that they can *ACTUALLY* manage to get into range of and hold down?
Ooooooh, I ****ing got it! Lets nerf the ****ing hell out of lasers... they need to do about half of the damage they currently do in order to keep it fair? WTF m8, you can be bitter about Gallente two years ago or you can ****ing help people find a solution to the problems of today.
Meh, who the **** cares anway seriously - the only people reading this thread are ****ing idiot trolls and people so depressed with blasters that they already trained lasers.
-Liang
--
Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
www.kwikdeath.org |
TrollmoreX
|
Posted - 2009.03.21 03:10:00 -
[975]
Originally by: Hell'n
sisi warriors unite!!!!!!!
:hi5:
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Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
|
Posted - 2009.03.21 03:22:00 -
[976]
Edited by: Electric Universe on 21/03/2009 03:22:43
Originally by: TrollmoreX
Originally by: Hell'n
sisi warriors unite!!!!!!!
:hi5:
Hi, i'm new to Sisi, so can you please let me join you on Sisi, so i can be as cool as you?.
Oh wait, i don't want to be a sisi warrior. If i go to Sisi, my whole career in EVE will be destroyed as beeing a sisi warrior deluxe.
Nobody want that to happen right?.
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TrollmoreX
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Posted - 2009.03.21 03:28:00 -
[977]
Originally by: Electric Universe
Edited by: Electric Universe on 21/03/2009 03:22:43
Originally by: TrollmoreX
Originally by: Hell'n
sisi warriors unite!!!!!!!
:hi5:
Hi, i'm new to Sisi, so can you please let me join you on Sisi, so i can be as cool as you?.
As long as you fit a multispec II in the 5th midslot on a tempest.
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Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
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Posted - 2009.03.21 03:36:00 -
[978]
Edited by: Electric Universe on 21/03/2009 03:39:39
Originally by: TrollmoreX
Originally by: Electric Universe
Edited by: Electric Universe on 21/03/2009 03:22:43
Originally by: TrollmoreX
Originally by: Hell'n
sisi warriors unite!!!!!!!
:hi5:
Hi, i'm new to Sisi, so can you please let me join you on Sisi, so i can be as cool as you?.
As long as you fit a multispec II in the 5th midslot on a tempest.
And if i fit a Tracking Disruptor II with a tracking script on my Tempest, is yor gang gonna be any happier about that?.
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Koloch
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.03.21 04:03:00 -
[979]
Edited by: Koloch on 21/03/2009 04:05:25
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: Koloch
Here's what you don't get. Just because the person isn't linked to the killmail or the vid doesn't discount the proof that people can get these ships to work as intended.
I can't even parse this sentence. FFS, plz fix it.
In Diego's post she says that even if people post killboard stats or post links to videos showing blaster ships performing that evidence doesn't matter because they don't belong to that person. better?
Yes it carries a bit less weight, but never the less it is worth something.
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Ooooooh, I ****ing got it! Lets nerf the ****ing hell out of lasers... they need to do about half of the damage they currently do in order to keep it fair? WTF m8, you can be bitter about Gallente two years ago or you can ****ing help people find a solution to the problems of today.
-Liang
I'm not bitter at all. I've listened to uneducated posters constantly say that Amarr needs to be nerfed or blaster pilots saying they need a huge dmg increase and greater range in order to compete. It's bull****. The balancing that is needed/if any is small.
I can only speak for myself. I'm posting here to make sure that when blaster pilots post an over exaggerated or just plan false statement that it gets corrected because I don't want my ship getting nerfed unfairly.
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Goumindong
Amarr
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.03.21 04:34:00 -
[980]
Originally by: Childstar
Unfortunatly for them these people are easy to spot because there scenarios are always one sided, totally favorable and utterly ignore the fact that the oposing gang may have a single brain cell and react and counter the pitifully simplistic tactics they think are so clever.
Don't be so hard on yourself, its hard to see all the different payouts in a noncooperative game.
But since you're asking. When players make choices, the other players can anticipate those choices and take corrective action. But the original player can correct for the corrective action as well. I.E. not only do you have to think about what the opposing gang may do if they have a single brain cell you have to think about what you will do if you think the opposing gang has a single brain cell. And so on and so forth.
This has interesting connotations for when were disussing many things. For instance RR gangs typically crash on common celestial objects. Rather than individual players(or they crash onto a player who crashes onto an object on grid). They do this because they need to stay tight to effect the RR.
Well, if i know that then i can bring a gang of close range RR and drop the gang right on top of them. I have an idea of where they're going to be and what they're going to be doing. In that situation, I will take fewer losses because i will have an advantage in strength.
Now, That means that he might sit off the gate in his med range RR gang... Well if he does that then i am at an even larger advantage, since now, he can't jump through the gate if i get a warp in. As well, i can get a long range gang with ECM and take him apart.
The defense against the long range gang is to sit on the gate and jump through when it engages(or get a warp in on them).
Well, what happens if your short range gang messes up and lands on a gate with a medium range gang off the gate? It jumps through and sets up on the other side. The same defense it uses against nano-cruisers and long range gangs.
The only real instance where you would want a medium range gang is where you can really be strong with nano-cruisers. I.E. 0.0 where you can tackle without heavy losses(either to gate guns or by lack of bubble)
Originally by: Childstar
The geddon fit had 2 HS the baddon fit had 3 HS.
Which is foolish, you lose more EHP than you gain DPS
Quote:
i do not have the results vs omni tank
But I do, and the damage disparity is not nearly as bad as it seems when looking raw.
Also, when its 916 DPS for the Abaddon, the Mega has 125 cubes it can use for various purposes.
The mega is not as good as an Abaddon for a medium sized gank gang. But it should not be, and the raw efficiency it gives up in the shorter range is made up for with the ability to engage farther in the same way that the Abaddon makes up for its lack of short range ability by strength in the long.
The point at which you are in an advantage using pulse is actually not a very large area, once you start to add more people you get into beam/rail territory. That isn't necessarily bad, especially considering the way that these range tolerances interact with the other attributes of ships.
Originally by: maralt
Proly refering to the hyperion although the situation only really applies to 1 v 1 BS i think as 2 webs on a hyperion make very little differance in a BS gang fight when most of the BS in it will each have a web fitted.
If the second web makes little difference, fit an ECCM. Now you can enjoy your 35%(overloadable to 30.9% vs a 16 strength jam) Chance of getting jammed while an Abaddon has a 72% chance to get jammed from a single racial module on a falcon(16 strength).
Your 30% bonus damage now becomes 300%(because you're shooting 130% more often than the Abaddon)
Originally by: maralt
By all means link this uber long list of solo blaster BS on TQ
I recommend anything by Kil2, i'd link but i am short on time.
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Cohkka
Celestial Apocalypse
death from above..
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Posted - 2009.03.21 09:42:00 -
[981]
Originally by: Goumindong
The only real instance where you would want a medium range gang is where you can really be strong with nano-cruisers. I.E. 0.0 where you can tackle without heavy losses(either to gate guns or by lack of bubble)
While certainly this is true for .0 gangs, this is also true for low sec ones to a somewhat lesser extend. You don't need bubbles/dictors to make the diffrence you don't even need nano cruisers for that matter. It's all about target availability and you get a wide range of tactics and possibilitys if your gang is optimized for med range + RR.
Furthermore all your theocrafting has the basis of two equaly strong homogenous gangs opposing eachother. Imo that's worth jack ****, as it again doesn't represent everyday PvP. All you have are theories about how small up to med sized gang PvP works and how blasters fit in there (as you obviously don't fly blasterships... and you're a goon).
Quote:
I recommend anything by Kil2, i'd link but i am short on time.
I blame highpolish blaster action videos for the common perception of them being uber. <3 Kil2, tho. ...and quite frankly you people miss out on the amarr solo action that is also present in the same video. But that can't be possible of course since it's common knowledge Amarr BS are crap for anything but med sized gangs.
Don't speak english, just F5, F5, F5... |
Childstar
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Posted - 2009.03.21 10:06:00 -
[982]
Originally by: Electric Universe
Haha, first off, congrats for saying i was trolling when i was giving you all the facts, AGAIN.
Everytime i give you some fact, you all accuse me of trolling. Nice way of proving me wrong. Maybe you should stop trolling your self with the utter bullcrap that Lasers do more DPS than Blasters.
The fact that gallente do a little more damage than lasers at a insignificantly small range is news to nobody but you p[reach it in every post like discoverd you oil in you back yard.
Lasers do out damage blasters in a much greater available range.
Originally by: Electric Universe
To the second thing, you said i was telling that Laser bs'es are best and then told me that you didn't had said that Lasers BS'es are best at everything, but then why are you saying that Lasers ARE better than Blasters?.
Nobody said lasers are best at everything in fact it was clearly stated that they are NOT, you should read posts more carefully.
Originally by: Electric Universe
Saying a Laser BS is better than a Blaster BS at gate camping or station PVP is also not true. Try meeting a Megathron gang with RR's fitted. They will whoop the Laser BS'es ass then.
Yes, if the Megas doesn't have RR fitted, then it might be something else. The chance that Amarr BS'es is going to win over an RR fitted Mega gang is as small as finding a needle on the earth from the moon.
Laser ships can fit RR as well and they do not need to burn their mwd to get close to each target like the blaster gang would need to.
Continuing to fit advantages onto blaster ships and leaving them off their targets just shows how baised things need to be.
And the geddon is not the only amarr battle ship that can fit RR.
Originally by: Electric Universe
And to the last thing. Yes i proved you all wrong by that link. And then you had to come with that funny & poor coment that i had learned all of my PVP from that link.
All you proved with that link is that you have no clue how pvp actually works, that link is the sort of thing that noobs read when they join eve and are thinking about picking a race, it shows nothing about how combat actually works or how the differant races abilities benifit them in actual TQ combat.
The link made you look foolish and naive dude, if you cannot see that its your problem.
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maralt
Minmatar
The seers of truth
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Posted - 2009.03.21 10:22:00 -
[983]
Edited by: maralt on 21/03/2009 10:32:46
Originally by: Goumindong
Originally by: Childstar
Unfortunatly for them these people are easy to spot because there scenarios are always one sided, totally favorable and utterly ignore the fact that the oposing gang may have a single brain cell and react and counter the pitifully simplistic tactics they think are so clever.
blah blah....goes on to emphaisise the point by preaching about a one sided fight.....
Making the point...
Originally by: childstar
You are ignoring something.
Large blaster available range is 4.5km +13km with AM and 11km +16km with null and within that 0-27km blaster band lasers do 70% dmg initially then match or out damage blasters even against a tank that favors kin/therm from 8-10km onwards to 27km.
So for the first 33ish% of blasters available range pulse do 70% to 100% of blaster dmg against a tank that favors kin/therm and for the other 66% of blasters available range lasers initially match then easily out damage blasters against the same kin/therm prefered tank.
NOW.
Large pulse available range is 15km+10km with MF and 45km +10km with SCORCH and within that 0-55km range RAILS even with AM loaded do a lot less than 70% dmg in the first 33% (538dps vs 916dps these are RAW DPS figures as i do not have the results vs omni tank).
And for the other 66% of laser range lasers still out damage rails vs omni tanks that favor kin/therm until we are at the very edge of pulse lasers available range and well into there falloff (in other words the point that lasers miss a lot).
Originally by: Goumindong
But I do have the figures, but im not going to post them as they are quite large, so il say they are not and hope this is ignored.
Hardly a shock....but hey if you have the figures of 538 dps from therm/kin relates to 916 dps from therm/em lets see them instead of you making feeble comments. I suggest you make them accurate though cos they will most certainly be checked.
Originally by: Goumindong
I recommend anything by Kil2, i'd link but i am short on time.
LOL you are so pradictably manipulative in your posting while being so poor at it.......Yea cos i mean its not like you have time to sit here and snip paste long threads on the subject.......hey wait...
You seem to be out of your feeble excuses and are relying on subject avoidance and word play..things do not look good..
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Goumindong
Amarr
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.03.21 10:53:00 -
[984]
Edited by: Goumindong on 21/03/2009 10:54:51
Originally by: maralt
LOL you are so pradictably manipulative in your posting while being so poor at it.......Yea cos i mean its not like you have time to sit here and snip paste long threads on the subject.......hey wait...
Typing is fast, searching is slow.
Originally by: Cohkka
Furthermore all your theocrafting has the basis of two equaly strong homogenous gangs opposing eachother. Imo that's worth jack ****, as it again doesn't represent everyday PvP. All you have are theories about how small up to med sized gang PvP works and how blasters fit in there (as you obviously don't fly blasterships... and you're a goon).
No other theory crafting is very valuable in this context. However, a mixed gang composition will more likely push your RR gang onto the gate or station as a rally point.[edit: which further advantages blaster ships unless you're engaging nano-cruisers]
If you're complaining that they are "equally strong" and that that doesn't happen often then the answer is that we're attempting to discover balance, and not attempting to discover how often people fight gangs that are smaller or larger than they are. Those types of determinations present a slightly more complicated model than i think you all could understand.
Also, i am not a goon.
Quote:
<3 Kil2, tho. ...and quite frankly you people miss out on the amarr solo action that is also present in the same video. But that can't be possible of course since it's common knowledge Amarr BS are crap for anything but med sized gangs.
There is very little solo amarr, he had one with a double rep, no MWD, 7 gun Apoc but the analysis of the fight pretty much confirms my prejudices. Remember, "not optimal" does not equal "useless". The gap between them is large, but they can still be used, just as you can still use rails and blasters in medium gangs you're just not quite as efficient as the Amarr battleships(or Dominixes)
He also has some solo Harbinger stuff in the pre-web nerf era, but battlecruisers are a whole 'nother bag compared to battleships.
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Childstar
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Posted - 2009.03.21 11:13:00 -
[985]
Edited by: Childstar on 21/03/2009 11:17:21
Originally by: Goumindong
However, a mixed gang composition will more likely push your RR gang onto the gate or station as a rally point.[edit: which further advantages blaster ships unless you're engaging nano-cruisers]
A mixed BS RR gang disadvantages blaster ships and rails, blasters because they will continually need to turn and burn to get to a range that they can do good damage while needing to watch in case they get out of RR range.
Rails do however solve the needing to MWD to get into range and do good dmg issue, unfortunatly even with AM fitted they do a lot less dmg than pulse even against tank that are favorable to them along with causing fitting issues as well as reduction in the megas already low ehp relative to the laser ships.
So the up side is that rail BS will be wasting no time or cap on their mwd to get into range and do good damage like blasters need to, but then they cannot do good damage even in perfect conditions anyway and their relative ehp sucks even worse than normal.
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Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
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Posted - 2009.03.21 11:33:00 -
[986]
Edited by: Electric Universe on 21/03/2009 11:36:52
Childstar. 30% DPS advantage on Neutrons over Lasers in optimal range is just more than a little DPS advantage dude.
When are tou gonna realaize that all your doing now is to accuse me of lying when the MMORPG link shows you wrong on everything?.
I'll listen to the facts the link from the MMORRPG site says over your rant any days. That site doesn't lie. And after what i have told from the beginning here, i have told the same many times as it's written in that link from the MMORPG site.
Your just trying all to twist you through the facts there. BUT YOU CANNOT. Because it's written down on black and white and you can't delete that.
And omg hahahah then you have to tell me by showing that link that i have to you that i'm lying?. Wow, good way of lying your self.
I have been telling the same as the link shows all the time. I'm not lying when i say that the Blaster Mega is the beast in PVP when it's about DPS, NOTHING beats a Blaster Mega in DPS in optimal range, no one is even near.
I was not lying when you have to MWD a bit to get to the targets and risk something there, and the link said the same.
I was not lying when it's about the damage types Blasters do. They are both good to armor and shield. The link did still show the same.
I was not lying when it's about the range Blasters have. They are the ultimate close range beast machine, and here to, the link shows that i was telling the same.
I was not lying when i have said that Gallente BS'es are more agile than Laser BS'es. Gallente BS'es are in between Amarr BS'es and Minmatar BS'es when it's about the agility.
So now, whos lying here?. I'm not the one who are lying. Becase that links is telling what i have been telling here in this topic all the time.
So do me the favour and tell me what exactly i have been lying about when it's about the facts in that link?.
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Childstar
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Posted - 2009.03.21 12:19:00 -
[987]
Edited by: Childstar on 21/03/2009 12:21:01
Originally by: Electric Universe
Childstar. 30% DPS advantage on Neutrons over Lasers in optimal range is just more than a little dude.
I'll listen to the facts the link from the MMORRPG site says over your rant any days. That site doesn't lie. And after what i have told from the beginning here, i have told the same many times as it's written in that link from the MMORPG site.
Your just trying all to twist you through the facts there. BUT YOU CANNOT. Because it's written down on black and white and you can't delete that.
And omg hahahah then you have to tell me by showing that link that i have to you that i'm lying?. Wow, good way of lying your self.
I have been telling the same as the link shows all the time. I'm not lying when i say that the Blaster Mega is the beast in PVP when it's about DPS, NOTHING beats a Blaster Mega in DPS in optimal range, no one is even near.
I was not lying when you have to MWD a bit to get to the targets and risk something there, and the link said the same.
I was not lying when it's about the damage types Blasters do. They are both good to armor and shield. The link did still sjhow the same.
I was not lying when it's about the range Blasters have. They are the ultimate close range beast machine, and here to, the link shows that i was telling the same.
I was not lying when i have said that Gallente BS'es are more agile than Laser BS'es. Gallente BS'es are in between Amarr BS'es and Minmatar BS'es when it's about the agility.
So now, whos lying here?. I'm not the one who are lying. Becase that links is telling what i have been telling here in this topic all the time.
So do me the favour and tell me what exactly i have been lying about when it's about the facts in that link?.
Ok it seems that their are a few things you need to comprehend before you have a total mental breakdown.
Nobody has said that the link does not give a rather basic but accurate description of how drones and blasters function.
Nobody is denying or has denied anything about how blasters function or what dmg they are capable of at certian ranges, and i do not know where you are getting the idea that ppl are doing that from but nobody is ok?.
What this thread IS discussing is now those abilities now apply to the available forms of pvp in eve now for battleships.
What you seem to have never been be able to grasp over all the threads on this subject is the differance between:
A. Raw on paper stats and B. How it applies to the sort of combat available on TQ for BS.
I find it odd that somebody who constantly goes on about the differance between raw dps and how it applies to omni tanks in a real situation quotes a silly page of text setup as a overview introduction for noobs joining the game and then acts as if it tells anybody anything about how that applies to actual available combat and especially BS combat.
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Cohkka
Celestial Apocalypse
death from above..
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Posted - 2009.03.21 12:22:00 -
[988]
Originally by: Goumindong
No other theory crafting is very valuable in this context. However, a mixed gang composition will more likely push your RR gang onto the gate or station as a rally point.[edit: which further advantages blaster ships unless you're engaging nano-cruisers]
If you're complaining that they are "equally strong" and that that doesn't happen often then the answer is that we're attempting to discover balance, and not attempting to discover how often people fight gangs that are smaller or larger than they are. Those types of determinations present a slightly more complicated model than i think you all could understand.
We're not discovering balance, at least I'm discovering usefulness. Ballance is a term wildly overstated as there is no such thing when the situations can be so diverse as they are in EVE and the ships/racial systems so diffrent to eachother. So in terms of usefulness "my" ultra shortrange gang is likely to get there terms of engagement dictated on them unless the other gang wants a fight desperately (rare, even if they outnumber the other gang) or the other gang makes a capital mistake (more likely). In the end, no matter how I look at it, I'm better off using med ranged weaponsystems: I gain the ability on engaging on almost every term, I loose the dependency on my enemy, I loose predictability and I loose my vulnerability in .0 sec.
Discussing hypothetical consensual fights ads little to this discussion. Even less when everything is has no foundation in actual PvP practice but mind games.
Don't speak english, just F5, F5, F5... |
Malcanis
R.E.C.O.N.
Dara Cothrom
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Posted - 2009.03.21 13:21:00 -
[989]
Never trust anything that bleeds for 32 pages and doesn't die.
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Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
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Posted - 2009.03.21 13:34:00 -
[990]
Edited by: Electric Universe on 21/03/2009 13:38:05
Originally by: Childstar
I find it odd that somebody who constantly goes on about the differance between raw dps and how it applies to omni tanks in a real situation quotes a silly page of text setup as a overview introduction for noobs joining the game and then acts as if it tells anybody anything about how that applies to actual available combat and especially BS combat.
I find it very odd that you have to accuse that page for telling how Gallente is for noobs. It's still how Gallente works no matter what you accuse that web page for.
The Gallente is not explained any different only because it's more of an introductin to newer players. It's still the true fact about Gallente.
And i have been totally right about my points in this topic about what that link tells. And still many of the trolling alts have been telling that i have been lying.
I suggest that those alts just shut the hell up instead of telling that i'm lying when i have proved the points that i have been telling are true.
And yes, i have been more detailed to than that link. Because that link doesn't take the omni tanks into the article there. It doersn't take how RR fitted Blaster Megas are in gate and station PVP, where the most PVPs are happening anyways.
But still, the link still says what i have been telling about the other things.
And you have been proved wrong (how many times do i have to tell this?) by that link.
First you say that yeah Blasters ONLY have a little DPS advantage when that's a pure lie. 30% more dps in optimal than Lasers is quite more than just a little.
And your trying all to get away from the fact that an RR fitted Blaster Mega gang is VERY hard to win over if both of the gangs are equal in sizes.
And when you think about how often Blaster Megas are fitted with an RR, then you know why the Blaster Megas are very popular in small / med PVP gangs.
And the chance to get over any geddons with an RR is extremely small anyways. And the chance to find a very gimped Abaddon with 7 guns and one RR is also extremely small, because an Abaddon with 7 guns does crap DPS.
Well ofc, there can be geddons or Abaddons in a gang with lots og Gallente BS'es that have RR fitted, I'm not denying that, but still, Gallente BS'es are the king in DPS in optimal range and the king when it's about RR.
Just adapt to the fact that this is the only reason the Gallente BS'es are so popular in gang PVP.
Just take a look at the most active and top low sec or empire PVP corps killboards, then you will see what i'm talking about.
It takes you 10 mins to find some killboards that shows exactly that, and it takes you maybe 30 mins in total to go through lots of pages with tons of Gallebnte BS'es that are in killmails.
It's not rocket science to find that out.
So no matter what you say, Gallente BS'es are the most popular BS'es in small and med size gangs because of the RR and DPS in low sec and empire.
Yes, in 0.0 space i might find Amarr BS'es to be more better because of the ranges and the DPS at med and long range. So that's true when it's about 0.0 space.
But then, most peoples are in empire and low sec anyways.
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Chi Quan
Perkone
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Posted - 2009.03.21 13:50:00 -
[991]
Originally by: Electric Universe aka NightmareX
It takes you 10 mins to find some killboards that shows exactly that, and it takes you maybe 30 mins in total to go through lots of pages with tons of Gallente BS'es that are in killmails.
please invest those 10 minutes and find exemples.
Originally by: Electric Universe aka NightmareX
So no matter what you say, Gallente BS'es are the most popular BS'es in small and med size gangs because of the RR and DPS in low sec and empire.
that is a statement without backup, i could likewise say that minmatar are kings of armor tanking. please back up your statements, a link to a beginners guide for eve on a MMORPG site is hardly proof of anything, only advertisement at best.
Originally by: Electric Universe aka NightmareX
Yes, in 0.0 space i might find Amarr BS'es to be more better because of the ranges and the DPS at med and long range. So that's true when it's about 0.0 space.
thanks, i'll link to that part of the post when the next but-rails-are-kings-of-sniping statement pops up.
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Ceterum censeo blasters need some tracking love |
Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
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Posted - 2009.03.21 13:58:00 -
[992]
Originally by: Chi Quan
Originally by: Electric Universe aka NightmareX
It takes you 10 mins to find some killboards that shows exactly that, and it takes you maybe 30 mins in total to go through lots of pages with tons of Gallente BS'es that are in killmails.
please invest those 10 minutes and find exemples.
Originally by: Electric Universe aka NightmareX
So no matter what you say, Gallente BS'es are the most popular BS'es in small and med size gangs because of the RR and DPS in low sec and empire.
that is a statement without backup, i could likewise say that minmatar are kings of armor tanking. please back up your statements, a link to a beginners guide for eve on a MMORPG site is hardly proof of anything, only advertisement at best.
Originally by: Electric Universe aka NightmareX
Yes, in 0.0 space i might find Amarr BS'es to be more better because of the ranges and the DPS at med and long range. So that's true when it's about 0.0 space.
thanks, i'll link to that part of the post when the next but-rails-are-kings-of-sniping statement pops up.
I'm gonna start with you last thing. Yes, link it as much as you like, because i'm not the person who are into the sniping so much. So for me, whatever can be best at that.
Then to the rest. So i have to give you links to only show that i'm right about what i'm telling?.
Maybe you shouldn't be so damn lazy and check that out for your self. Or maybe your to scared to face the true fact by your self huh?.
It's not a lie when it's about low sec and empire, the Gallente BS'es are the most popular ships in small and med size gangs.
Those who says that are not true, doesn't have a single clue on what your talking about.
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Childstar
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Posted - 2009.03.21 14:12:00 -
[993]
Edited by: Childstar on 21/03/2009 14:14:16
Originally by: Electric Universe
I find it very odd that you have to accuse that page for telling how Gallente is for noobs. It's still how Gallente works no matter what you accuse that web page for.
The Gallente is not explained any different only because it's more of an introductin to newer players. It's still the true fact about Gallente.
And i have been totally right about my points in this topic about what that link tells. And still many of the trolling alts have been telling that i have been lying.
I have seen nobody say you are lying about the stats you wave around.
Originally by: Electric Universe
First you say that yeah Blasters ONLY have a littyle DPS advantage when that's a pure lie. 30% more dps in optimal than Lasers is quite more than just a little.
The window for that dps advantage is not only so rediculously tiny that getting a constant 30% advantage is close to impossable in actual combat but it is also subject to a single type of tank, but as i have said many times nobody has denied that it exists at least on paper.
Originally by: Electric Universe
Stuff about RR.
Amarr laser BS can be used just as effectivly with RR as blaster BS can be, if not more effectivly simply because of their ability to engage and do good instant damage within a much larger area without losing dps and cap because of needing to burn into a perfect optimal range for every target.
This makes laser ships considerably more dangerous to changing circumstances in a fight as well as a more difficult foe to fight due to their ability to range tank while doing heavy damage that is coupled with the targets laser ships may face inability to range tank and do good damage.
And yes people sill fly gallente BS, up until a week ago when i finished training amarr BS and the weapon systems to go with it i had no choice but to fly gallente BS myself. But that does not change the fact that if a close range gang of BS was being put together (with or without RR) now i have finished my amarr training that it would not be the blaster ship i would be jumping into it would be the amarr ship.
People fly the ships they are ABLE to fly and just because they do does not mean that they would not choose another if they were able and had the skills.
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Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
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Posted - 2009.03.21 14:32:00 -
[994]
To your first thing Child. I'm waving with the true stats yeah. Instead of lying, can you please give me some stats that shows me wrong?. Oh wait you can't, because the facts / stats i have given is the truth.
To your second thing. Like i have been telling, any smart PVPers that use Gallente BS'es with Blasters will warp right in on top of your ass no matter reason. If they do that, they will always have around 30% DPS advantage if a normal Omni tank is used.
Comeon, you can prove me wrong, but hell give me some stats and calculations on why i'm wrong iinstead of ju8st telling something without proof. Like me, i have given the proof many times about the Omni thing.
To your 3rd thing. Yes you can get some working RR Amarr BS'es, but those will be gimped either in EHP, DPS or resists. So no matter how you say it, the Gallente BS'es with RR will always get out way better than any Amarr BS'es with RR.
4th thing. Yes, Amarr BS'es gets way mjore dangerous if you are at the LASERS optimal to the Gallente BS'es, howe many times do we have to tell you this. A Laser BS is a med range ship, not close range as a Blaster Mega is for example.
If 10 Blaster ships warps in on 10 other BS'es, then i'm pretty sure that 50-60% of the gang will be webbed so they can't move fast out of the Blasters range.
And no matter what dream world you are in, it's pointed out many many times in this topic that you can just look at some killboards and see that i'm not lying at all when it's about the Gallente BS'es.
This thing with the Gallente BS'es are no longer used is soooooo starting to get boring now, because it's not true at all. It's a pure lie.
Now, before you give me ANY stats or facts about the tings i have said, also facts or stats that shows me wrong, then your ignored until then.
I think i have given the facts and stats enjough in this topic. and if ypouf you can't read those by me, then you better not be whining either that you sucks bvecause your doing it all wrong when it's about Gallente.
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Childstar
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Posted - 2009.03.21 15:14:00 -
[995]
Originally by: Electric Universe
To your first thing Child. I'm waving with the true stats yeah. Instead of lying, can you please give me some stats that shows me wrong?. Oh wait you can't, because the facts / stats i have given is the truth.
Just because some of you stats are accurate does not mean they all are or that your ideas and application of them is even close to being accurate.
Originally by: Electric Universe
To your second thing. Like i have been telling, any smart PVPers that use Gallente BS'es with Blasters will warp right in on top of your ass no matter reason. If they do that, they will always have around 30% DPS advantage if a normal Omni tank is used.
Here is a prime example of how you ignore the reality of a situation and focus on a stat.
In that situation the only point the blaster ships have even close to a 30% dps advantage is right at the start of the fight and against the very first primay target. After that the gang would have burned away to well outside the range blasters have a advantage, even those that would have been webbed would be well beyond the tiny 4.5km window.
Originally by: Electric Universe
To your 3rd thing. Yes you can get some working RR Amarr BS'es, but those will be gimped either in EHP, DPS or resists. So no matter how you say it, the Gallente BS'es with RR will always get out way better than any Amarr BS'es with RR.
In a RR vs RR gang fight the most effective tactics for winning the battle is to switch targets and apply instant damage to a ship that is not being RR'd as quick possable before his buddies can react, lock him themselves and start remote repping.
1. Amarr ships having a clear advantage in available instant dmg range that makes them more effective at applying their damage against targets, while in a gang fight not all the blaster ships will be within the 30% more dmg range of the targets chosen.
2. Laser ships are also more able to soak up more damage when the target switch tactic is used against them due to having more EHP, thus giving their team mates longer to react, lock and RR them.
3. Laser ships not needing to MWD towards every target to do high damage, this means a lot less overall cap usage in a fight that is already cap intensive due to the need to run RR.
|
Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
|
Posted - 2009.03.21 15:34:00 -
[996]
Edited by: Electric Universe on 21/03/2009 15:46:09
Child, you still ignore what i have said.
You said yeah they will have the DPS advantage on the primary and secondary target, then rest will be out of their range.
Ok, so your still ignoring the fact that they doesn't only web the prim and secondary target, and for the rest of the ships that are not in range, then we will just 1 or 2 MWD cycle after them and we are close to them again to do the 30% DPS advantage.
Holy crap, i'm not dumb. PVP is not rocket science to understand.
And you say that RR gang vs RR gang is the most realistic fights, yeah it is. But how realistic is it to find Amarr BS'es with RR's fitted?, it's very few times to come over that.
So my comparsion get way more realistic anyways.
And then you get with the funny noob comment that yeeeeaaaaaah Lasers get the instant damage on you. Dude, Blasters get instant damage on you to if they land on top of your ass.
LOL, stupid much?.
But yes, if the Megathrons have to MWD a bit to get to you, then the Laser BS'es have a little advantage there. But that's ONLY if that happens.
And don't say that the whole Amarr race have more EHP only because the Abaddon have more EHP than other BS'es. It's one single BS in the Amarr race that have that EHP advantage.
Oh wow, the Abaddon have EHP advantage, but wow, the Megathron have 30% DPS advantage when in optimal and RR advantage over the Abaddon. Saying Abaddon can use RR is also a stupid way to make an excuse, because taking away one gun on the abaddon is really going to nerf your DPS by miles.
Do you even know how much the DPS advantage on a Megathron get over an Abaddon if you remove one gun on the Abaddon for one RR?. Holy crap, i don't even want to know how much, because i would laught my ass off if i see that number.
Yes the Lasers have a range advantage over Blasters, but like that's gonna help anything when the Megathrons sits 4 km from your slow ass Amarr BS and say bye bye. Adios amigos.
If you want to compare that cap from an Abaddon, then compare the cap to the Hyperion. The Hyperion have more cap than the Abaddon anyways. And a Megathron have more capacitor than the Geddon anyways.
Well i hope you know that the MWD and RR is the things that really helps a Megathron to stay alive. The RR is one of the reasons a Megathron gang can fightr outnumbered.
That have been proved many times to.
How much more stupid things are you gonna spew out here before your happy with your whine?.
|
ChalSto
LOCKDOWN.
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.03.21 15:57:00 -
[997]
To kill that "Blasters do about 30% more dmg than Lasers"-commend once and for all (and for everyone to understand):
The net-dmg "advantage" of a Bthron over an abddon/geddon on
realistic TQ-combat scenario
(and if the pilot maneuver his Bthron perfectly (useing as few as
possible MWD-bursts and stops perfectly at his blasters-optimal-range
on the target),
manages his cap perfectly (even on neutron-setup with med-capbooster,
or Ions-single-rep, not to mention the classic electron-dual-rep),
manages to watch his drones and keeps them alive (by scoop/deploy),
manages his cargo (med-container, or u¦ll have less capboosters, no
reserve-ammo and no longrange t2-ammo = u¦r screwed),
manages to keep transversal low for better hits (and PRAY TO GOD, that
the opposide-pilots doesnt click on "orbit"),
manages to watch the other targets on the overview about range/transversal/ewar/
speed/drones/shiptypes/ect)
is 3%.
I dont know why goumi, nightmare and others are so afraid about a boost to the
blaster-weapon-system. Have you guys been traumatized in your past from a bthron?
What peaople like the above listed will NEVER understand, is, that the blaster-weapon-
system is compleatly addicted to his pilot.
Blasters sucked since 2003. It was the player alone, who made them "work".
And still, people like goumi try to deny that and trys with word-games, which have
NO CONTENT and false information, to make veteran-players with YEARS (YEARS!!!) of
experience with blaster-ships to look stupid,
people like nightmare.....(ok.....I dont know what to say here.....maybe you should
look alot more on TQ and over your current horizon and ego)....ok.....scratch that.
I realy wish, I had more targets like goumi and nightmare...
...I would even consider to fit a cargo-expander on my vaga
just to get all your loot into the cargo...
Originally by: Agmar
-----------------------------------------------
"The North is so ghey that even the NPCs fly ravens." |
Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
|
Posted - 2009.03.21 16:04:00 -
[998]
Edited by: Electric Universe on 21/03/2009 16:08:01
ChalSto. First off, i'm not NightmareX by any means only because some on the forum says it.
The only reason why a damage boost to Blasters are a stupid idea is because it's going to take the Autocannons into a very bad shape. Also it means that no one will use Autocannons over Blasters, simply because Blasters get the favourite weapon type to everyone again.
As things are now, the weapon systems are pretty balanced to each others. And it's the same with the ships.
I don't get it why you peoples DON'T GET IT, that boosting Blaster damage is going to make Blasters the favorite weapon again.
We went from that thing because it was just stupid and every weapons as they are now are very good balanced.
That's why there is nothing that is called a favourite weapon type in PVP anylonger.
|
Childstar
|
Posted - 2009.03.21 16:09:00 -
[999]
Edited by: Childstar on 21/03/2009 16:12:39
Originally by: Electric Universe
ChalSto. First off, i'm not NightmareX by any means only because some on the forum says it.
Yes you are its obvious and everybody sees it.
Originally by: Electric Universe
And you say that RR gang vs RR gang is the most realistic fights, yeah it is. But how realistic is it to find Amarr BS'es with RR's fitted?, it's very few times to come over that.
It was your scenario pal not mine i just pointed out a few facts, the truth is that a normal RR gang is made up of a lot of races ships and its also true that the best in the gang for overall damage in the fights they get in are the laser ships.
Originally by: Electric Universe
Oh wow, the Abaddon have EHP advantage, but wow, the Megathron have 30% DPS advantage when in optimal and RR advantage over the Abaddon. Saying Abaddon can use RR is also a stupid way to make an excuse, because taking away one gun on the abaddon is really going to nerf your DPS by miles.
Firstly the megas EHP is god awful when its fitted with nuetrons, RR and 3 mag stabs.
With 7 guns each the abaddons gun dps is only 53dps less than the geddons if they both fit 3 mag stabs and normaly the geddon has a hell of a lot less EHP and can only choose between either a point or a web.
Personally i think considering the ease of fit the buckets more EHP and the very tiny gun dps differance that the abaddon is the better choice for a RR BS than the geddon.
Originally by: Electric Universe
The RR is one of the reasons a Megathron gang can fight outnumbered.
Its not one of the resons its the only reason, and that reason also applies to all BS that can fit RR effectivly.
How about you try staying calm, reading a bit more carefully and try using a few less emotionaly fueled insults.
|
Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
|
Posted - 2009.03.21 16:19:00 -
[1000]
Edited by: Electric Universe on 21/03/2009 16:25:25
First off Child. You don't fit a Neutron Mega with 3x Mag Stabs.
You can fit it with 1 Mag Stab and still do more DPS than a geddon / Abaddon with 2x HS II, because of the omni tanks.
The EHP is not everything in PVP, there is tons of other things that is waaaaaaay more than the EHP (resists) bonus to the Abaddon.
And tell me exactly what other ships you can get to work effectivly with RR, normal Omni tank, MWD, Heavy Cap Booster, exept for any gallente BS'es?.
Gallente is the best RR race whatever you say.
And don't come with the pooooooor pooor example with the RR geddon that you have to use 2x CPU implants to get that to work.
And also, any Slave fitted characters with Blastert Megas are going to lol at you because you use a Slot 6 CPU implant instead of a LG or HG Slave Omega implant on your fail RR geddon.
|
|
|
Childstar
|
Posted - 2009.03.21 16:54:00 -
[1001]
Originally by: Electric Universe
First off Child. You don't fit a Neutron Mega with 3x Mag Stabs.
You can fit it with 1 Mag Stab and still do more DPS than a geddon / Abaddon with 2x HS II, because of the omni tanks.
With 1 x mag stab the RR nuetron mega does 695 raw gun dps and has less EHP than the abaddon.
The abaddon with 7 guns and RR can easily fit 3 heat sinks and do 802 raw dps as well as having a larger EHP tank than the mega.
This gives the RR abaddon a 107 raw dps advantage over the mega RR fit removing the "30% more dps in blaster optimal" advantage and allowing lasers to easily match blaster damage in blasters 4.5km optimal, and also massivly out damage blasters in ranges above 4.5km.
The 7 gun RR abaddon with 3 HS also has more EHP than your mega fit.
|
TrollmoreX
|
Posted - 2009.03.21 17:01:00 -
[1002]
Originally by: Electric Universe
trolls and stuff
NightmareX alt spotted.
|
Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
|
Posted - 2009.03.21 17:53:00 -
[1003]
Originally by: Childstar
Edited by: Childstar on 21/03/2009 17:33:04
Originally by: Electric Universe
First off Child. You don't fit a Neutron Mega with 3x Mag Stabs.
You can fit it with 1 Mag Stab and still do more DPS than a geddon / Abaddon with 2x HS II, because of the omni tanks.
With 1 x mag stab the RR nuetron mega does 695 raw gun dps and has less EHP than the abaddon.
The abaddon with 7 guns and RR can easily fit 3 heat sinks and do 802 raw gun dps as well as having a larger EHP tank than the mega.
This gives the RR abaddon a 107 raw dps advantage over the mega RR fit at the megas optimal, totally removing the "30% more dps in blaster optimal cos of omni tank" advantage. And by allowing its lasers to easily match blaster damage in blasters 4.5km optimal and also massivly out damage blasters in ranges above 4.5km against omni tanks along with its higher EHP and available range the abbadon is the much better ship for RR.
The 7 gun RR abaddon with 3 HS also has more EHP than your mega fit.
So the abaddon fit gets more or matching gun dps in blaster optimal against onmi tanks.
More EHP than your mega fit.
And bucket tonnes more gun dps outside 4.5km.
Also use the T2 RR for faster rep cycles.
Oh and it does not use a single implant slot for fittings
How owned do you feel?.
Originally by: Electric Universe
And also, any Slave fitted characters with Blastert Megas are going to lol at you because you use a Slot 6 CPU implant instead of a LG or HG Slave Omega implant on your fail RR geddon.
I did not use the geddon fit, and the only ppl who use HG slaves in general pvp are those who play with pimped fits on sissi.
Why are you comparing a 1x MFS fitted Neutron Mega to a 3x HS fitted Abaddon, why do you even compare that?.
Yeah the Abaddon can fit 3 heat sinks with one RR fitted, but boy oh boy, the ship will melt so fast.
Doesn't help to have EHP when your resists are crap as hell.
No, the RR abaddon does not do 107 raw dps more over the mega RR fit at the megas optimal, try fitting one HS Ii to the one MFS the Neutron Mega have. Whos the loser here again?. Yes the Abaddon.
Oh wow, the Abaddon have more EHP than my Mega, like the EHP is everything in PVP.
Then you say this: [u][b]So the abaddon fit gets more or matching gun dps in blaster optimal against onmi tanks. No it's wrong, the DPS EFT shows is before the laser damage are taken on the omni tanked ships.
Then EHP is not everything, but it sounds like you think it is. Dumb or what?.
And thne you said this: And bucket tonnes more gun dps outside 4.5km. Who ****ing cares?. We are talking about close range that are within Blasters optimal ranges. yes i know Lasers are a Med range weapon, Blaster IS NOT.
Yeah, use T2 RR that use more powergrid and also use 16 more CPU than the best t1 named, yeah sounds like a good idea to a geddon. I think the geddon already have enough CPU problems as it have.
No, alot of the low sec and empire PVPers in Blaster Megas and other BS'es are using both LG and HG Slave sets ON TQ. Everybody knows this.
How owned DO YOU FEEL NOW?.
|
Childstar
|
Posted - 2009.03.21 18:28:00 -
[1004]
Edited by: Childstar on 21/03/2009 18:31:08
Originally by: Electric Universe
Why are you comparing a 1x MFS fitted Neutron Mega to a 3x HS fitted Abaddon, why do you even compare that?.
You chose the 1 MFS mega as your RR ship of choice not me.
You also asked me to find and fit a RR ship that was better than YOUR RR MEGA FIT so i did.
The abaddon fit i have chosen has:
1. The abbadon can match the gun DPS of your 1 mag stab mega in the blaster 4.5km optimal WITH omni resists taken into account.
2. The abbadon fit has more EHP.
3. The Abaddon fit not only matches your blaster ships gun DPS even WITH omni resists taken into account, but also does that same gun dmg out to 15km where the blaster damage is a joke.
4. The abaddon can easily fit the T2 RR that gives a faster rep cycle so the abaddon gets better RR than the one the mega can fit.
5. The abaddon does not need any implants at all to fit and do all of this.
I ignored the rest of the ranting in your post about the geddon as i did not mention it, and its only you who seem to want to bring it up when im not discussing it.....
|
Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
|
Posted - 2009.03.21 18:57:00 -
[1005]
Edited by: Electric Universe on 21/03/2009 19:05:39
Originally by: Childstar
Edited by: Childstar on 21/03/2009 18:39:26
Originally by: Electric Universe
Why are you comparing a 1x MFS fitted Neutron Mega to a 3x HS fitted Abaddon, why do you even compare that?.
You chose the 1 MFS mega as your RR ship of choice not me.
You also asked me to find and fit a RR ship that was better than YOUR RR MEGA FIT so i did.
Originally by: Electric Universe
First off Child. You don't fit a Neutron Mega with 3x Mag Stabs.You can fit it with 1 Mag Stab.......
And tell me exactly what other ships you can get to work effectivly with RR, normal Omni tank, MWD, Heavy Cap Booster, exept for any gallente BS'es?.
The abaddon fit i have chosen has:
1. The abbadon can match the gun DPS of your 1 mag stab mega in the blaster 4.5km optimal WITH omni resists taken into account.
2. The abbadon fit has more EHP.
3. The Abaddon fit not only matches your blaster ships gun DPS even WITH omni resists taken into account, but also does that same gun dmg out to 15km where the blaster damage is a joke.
4. The abaddon can easily fit the T2 RR that gives a faster rep cycle so the abaddon gets better RR than the one the mega can fit.
5. The abaddon does not need any implants at all to fit and do all of this.
I ignored the rest of the ranting in your post about the geddon as i did not mention it, and its only you who seem to want to bring it up when im not discussing it.....
Your RR Abaddon setup sucks donkey when it's about the resists dude, no matter what you say.
Please post the setup here for me. Then let us lol at your ******ed fail setup.
To the next things.
1. Yeah with 3x Heat Sinks. While the Mega have 1 MFS II. Yeah i mean seriously, WOOOOOW, 3 Heat Sinks and then compare it to 1 MFS. Awesome.
2. Oh the Abaddon have more EHP, and so what?, not like your gonna win anything by that EHP bonus anyways. DPS and RR is as much important than EHP, maybe even more important.
3. The Blasters are still not Med range weapon. BLASTERS ARE VERY CLOSE RANGE WEAPON. How many times do we have to tell you this before you get it into you little nut?. DO NOT compare a med range weapons to a close range weapons. It's just stupid.
4. Wow, by 0.5 sec better. Yeah, fitting a RR in an Abaddon is stupid anyways. Either you gimp your resists by having 3x HS II's so you can outdamage a Blaster Mega or you will gimp your DPS, no matter what you tell.
5. So what, it's not about that you have to fit any implants to fit it. It's all about having a ships that is really good in small and med size gang combat WITH RR, without gimping your DPS because of one RR.
Try comparing the resists to a 3x HS II fitted Abaddon to a 1x MFS II fitted Megathron.
|
Childstar
|
Posted - 2009.03.21 19:09:00 -
[1006]
Edited by: Childstar on 21/03/2009 19:12:09
Edited by: Childstar on 21/03/2009 19:10:18
Originally by: Electric Universe
Your RR Abaddon setup sucks donkey when it's about the resists dude, no matter what you say.
Try comparing the resists to a 3x HS II fitted Abaddon to a 1x MFS II fitted Megathron
What fit/resists/low slot fit does your 1 mag stab mega have and i will?.
Originally by: Electric Universe
1. Yeah with 3x Heat Sinks. While the Mega have 1 MFS II.
You chose the mega to have 1 mag stab fitted pal so crying about it now is a bit late.
Originally by: Electric Universe
2. Oh the Abaddon have more EHP, and so what?, not like your gonna win anything by that EHP bonus anyways. DPS and RR is as much important than EHP, maybe even more important.
The abbadon fit i chose has the same gun DPS as the mega against onmi tanks, Better RR fitted and more ehp.
Originally by: Electric Universe
3. The Blasters are still not Med range weapon. BLASTERS ARE VERY CLOSE RANGE WEAPON. How many times do we have to tell you this before you get it into you little nut?. DO NOT compare a med range weapons to a close range weapons. It's just stupid.
Im not comparing im giving actual factual stats that show the abaddon matching the gun dmg of your mega at 4.5km even against omni tanks, while also doing that same gun dmg out to 15km where the megas dmg sucks.
Originally by: Electric Universe
4. Wow, by 0.5 sec better. Yeah, fitting a RR in an Abaddon is stupid anyways. Either you gimp your resists or DPS, no matter what you tell.
Its does neither of those things, when compared to your 1 mag stab mega it makes it much better at RR.
Originally by: Electric Universe
5. So what, it's not about that you have to fit any implants to fit it. It's all about having a ships that is really good in small and med size gang combat WITH RR, without gimping your DPS because of one RR.
The abaddon matches the gun dmg of you 1 mag stab mega against omni tanks, and also out performs it in ever other way including RR amount and EHP.
|
Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
|
Posted - 2009.03.21 19:12:00 -
[1007]
Childstar, I ASKED YOU for the setup. Post it or stfu.
You will get my setup when you have posted yours.
|
Childstar
|
Posted - 2009.03.21 19:13:00 -
[1008]
Edited by: Childstar on 21/03/2009 19:15:56
Originally by: Electric Universe
Childstar, I ASKED YOU for the setup. Post it or stfu.
You will get my setup when you have posted yours.
Edit your above post to ask politly and i will edit this with the fit.
You need to learn manners and grow up as you get very abusive and foul mouthed when you are losing a argument.
|
Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
|
Posted - 2009.03.21 19:20:00 -
[1009]
Edited by: Electric Universe on 21/03/2009 19:22:20
Originally by: Childstar
Edited by: Childstar on 21/03/2009 19:15:56
Originally by: Electric Universe
Childstar, I ASKED YOU for the setup. Post it or stfu.
You will get my setup when you have posted yours.
Edit your above post to ask politly and i will edit this with the fit.
You need to learn manners and grow up as you get very abusive and foul mouthed when you are losing a argument.
Post it or stfu. I asked you first, so post it or stfu.
I know your to ****ing scared to post your fail setup, so just try more to prove my point, good work.
And if you don't want to post the setup, then you know why i'm saying that your lying.
So now post it or leave this topic with your trolls.
|
Childstar
|
Posted - 2009.03.21 19:43:00 -
[1010]
Edited by: Childstar on 21/03/2009 19:44:12
Originally by: Electric Universe
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: Electric Universe
Childstar, I ASKED YOU for the setup. Post it or stfu.
You will get my setup when you have posted yours.
Edit your above post to ask politly and i will edit this with the fit.
You need to learn manners and grow up as you get very abusive and foul mouthed when you are losing a argument.
Post it or stfu. I asked you first, so post it or stfu.
I know your to ****ing scared to post your fail setup, so just try more to prove my point, good work.
And if you don't want to post the setup, then you know why i'm saying that your lying.
So now post it or leave this topic with your trolls.
Interesting...you add more abuse when you know i will not post the fit unless you remove it and ask in a reasonable way.....
I guess its you who really does not want it posting as it shows you up big time, anyway the fit and especially the low slot configuration is easy to figure out when you already know that 3 HS are being used.
I mean theres only 4 low slots left to use after that and the highs i have told you already, and well the mids are obvious....
|
|
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Chi Quan
Perkone
|
Posted - 2009.03.21 19:49:00 -
[1011]
Edited by: Chi Quan on 21/03/2009 19:53:01
Originally by: Electric Universe
Then to the rest. So i have to give you links to only show that i'm right about what i'm telling?.
yep, this is what military experts are calling evidence or proof, else it is just an assertion.
Originally by: Electric Universe
Maybe you shouldn't be so damn lazy and check that out for your self. Or maybe your to scared to face the true fact by your self huh?.
i'm not lazy, i did search but found none (or significantly more examples that they suck). nor am i scared, why should i? like almost everyone, i have alts that are trained in different races (although not originally designed as pvp pilots). how do you prove the lack of something? you can't really, you prove the presence of something.
so please, if you think that my search was faulty, go ahead, PROVE me wrong.
Originally by: Electric Universe
It's not a lie when it's about low sec and empire, the Gallente BS'es are the most popular ships in small and med size gangs.
Those who says that are not true, doesn't have a single clue on what your talking about.
proof?
even if it was so (what could indeed be true), you have the drone boat (that does not use blasters normally) that is obviously not part of the current issue.
and finally, to bring some content to this thread, i'd like to link to some graphs.
from Goum:
http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l130/Goumindong/ActHypvPassAbb.jpg
from SecHaul:
http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm63/Secluse/Hyperion.jpg
from maralt (using a gank fit for the Abba):
http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm63/Secluse/UpdatedHyp.jpg
from the last Allience Tournament
_NAVY_ Mega performance
Abadon & Pulses performance
now switch the ships around, how would Megas have fared in the second video and how would Abbas have performed in the first?
----
Ceterum censeo blasters need some tracking love |
Mag's
the united
Negative Ten.
|
Posted - 2009.03.21 20:03:00 -
[1012]
I see NightmareX the sisi warrior, is still getting personal and abusive.
Arguing with people of that nature, is a lesson in futility.
Regards
Mag's |
Childstar
|
Posted - 2009.03.21 20:13:00 -
[1013]
Edited by: Childstar on 21/03/2009 20:16:26
Originally by: Mag's
I see NightmareX the sisi warrior, is still getting personal and abusive.
Arguing with people of that nature, is a lesson in futility.
And it gets worse the more he gets owned on a subject, the major emotional posting and noob comments he constantly uses can be easily ignored as the ravings of a child but as soon as he starts losing the argument or has made a fool of himself the foul launguage and abuse starts.
Anyway the abaddon makes a great RR platform and cetainly better in many ways and a lot easier to fully fit than any single mag stab mega fits i can see.
|
Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
|
Posted - 2009.03.21 20:19:00 -
[1014]
Childstar, post your setup or you are proven wrong.
Before you post your setup, you have NO PROOF.
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Stalina
Gallente
Deep Space Exploration Squad
PuPPet MasTers
|
Posted - 2009.03.21 20:25:00 -
[1015]
Originally by: Electric Universe
Childstar, post your setup or you are proven wrong.
Before you post your setup, you have NO PROOF.
_________________________________
|
Childstar
|
Posted - 2009.03.21 20:40:00 -
[1016]
Edited by: Childstar on 21/03/2009 20:42:11
Originally by: Electric Universe
Childstar, post your setup or you are proven wrong.
Before you post your setup, you have NO PROOF.
Ah a post without foulness or abuse...good boy, now you need to understand the way proof works but il save that lesson for another time and throw you a bone.
7 x MP T2
1 x T2 RR
1 x 100mn MWD T2
1 X heavy cap injector T2
1 x Fleeting web
1 x T2 point (or faint point depending on fit choice).
3 x T2 heat sinks.
1 x DCU.
1 x 1600 plate
2 x eanm T2
(2 plates and one eanm can be used instead depending on preferance)
3 x trimark T1.
The 2 eanm fit gives 81.3em, 75.7thr, 71.9kin, 70.1ex with 134,371EHP.
Twin plate fit gives 76.1em, 68.9thr, 64.1kin, 61.7ex with 138,344EHP.
Abaddon gets 802 raw gun dps vs 695 raw gun dps from the 1 mag stab mega.
15km optimal vs 4.5km.
The ability to fit scorch.
And obviosly the cap and damage bonuses for not needing to burn towards each target.
10% more RR from using the T2 RR (0.5 of a second faster in a 5 second cycle = 10% faster/more RR).
NO FITTING IMPLANTS ARE NEEDED FOR THIS FIT.
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Childstar
|
Posted - 2009.03.21 20:41:00 -
[1017]
Edited by: Childstar on 21/03/2009 20:41:43
Now lets see your uber 1 mag stab mega fit....
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Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
|
Posted - 2009.03.21 20:46:00 -
[1018]
Originally by: Childstar
Edited by: Childstar on 21/03/2009 20:41:43
Now lets see your uber 1 mag stab mega fit....
Do you really think i'm gonna compare a 1 Mag Stab fitted Mega to a 3x HS fitted Abaddon?. Haha, being funny or what?.
Dude i will also use 3x Mag Stabs if you are using it.
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Childstar
|
Posted - 2009.03.21 20:49:00 -
[1019]
Edited by: Childstar on 21/03/2009 20:49:56
Originally by: Electric Universe
Originally by: Childstar
Now lets see your uber 1 mag stab mega fit....
Do you really think i'm gonna compare a 1 Mag Stab fitted Mega to a 3x HS fitted Abaddon?. Haha, being funny or what?.
Dude i will also use 3x Mag Stabs if you are using it.
Go ahead il enjoy seeing you try and fit the tank and have a good chuckle at the pathetic resists/ehp...
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Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
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Posted - 2009.03.21 20:55:00 -
[1020]
Originally by: Childstar
Edited by: Childstar on 21/03/2009 20:49:56
Originally by: Electric Universe
Originally by: Childstar
Now lets see your uber 1 mag stab mega fit....
Do you really think i'm gonna compare a 1 Mag Stab fitted Mega to a 3x HS fitted Abaddon?. Haha, being funny or what?.
Dude i will also use 3x Mag Stabs if you are using it.
Go ahead il enjoy seeing you try and fit the tank and have a good chuckle at the pathetic resists/ehp...
I think i'm going to have a laught at you all and you when i post those setups.
Just hang on.
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Childstar
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Posted - 2009.03.21 21:10:00 -
[1021]
Edited by: Childstar on 21/03/2009 21:14:37
Originally by: Electric Universe
I think i'm going to have a laught at you all and you when i post those setups.
Just hang on.
Do you really think i'm gonna compare a 1 Mag Stab fitted Mega to a 3x HS fitted Abaddon?. Haha, being funny or what?.
None of your pimped navy mega, T2 rigged, HG slave implanted sissi dream fits pal, i used no implants so nor can you.
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Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
|
Posted - 2009.03.21 21:24:00 -
[1022]
Edited by: Electric Universe on 21/03/2009 21:25:17
Originally by: Childstar
Edited by: Childstar on 21/03/2009 21:22:41
Originally by: Electric Universe
Do you really think i'm gonna compare a 1 Mag Stab fitted Mega to a 3x HS fitted Abaddon?. Haha, being funny or what?.
Fine if those are the rules those are the rules...
None of your pimped navy mega, T2 rigged, HG slave implanted sissi dream fits pal, i used no implants so nor can you.
like i'm gonna do that. Hey i'm not a ****** dude.
But comparing a tier 3 BS to a tier 2 BS is not the best idea to do anyways. If you want to compare the Abaddon with something, then compare it to the Hyperion.
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Childstar
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Posted - 2009.03.21 21:28:00 -
[1023]
Edited by: Childstar on 21/03/2009 21:30:29
Originally by: Electric Universe
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: Electric Universe
Do you really think i'm gonna compare a 1 Mag Stab fitted Mega to a 3x HS fitted Abaddon?. Haha, being funny or what?.
Fine if those are the rules those are the rules...
None of your pimped navy mega, T2 rigged, HG slave implanted sissi dream fits pal, i used no implants so nor can you.
like i'm gonna do that. Hey i'm not a ****** dude.
But comparing a tier 3 BS to a tier 2 BS is not the best idea to do anyways. If you want to compare the Abaddon with something, then compare it to the Hyperion.
The abaddon is a very available and great ship for RR work and better than the mega, but you are welcome to try and prove me wrong.
So stop making excuses and post your fit....but hey if you wanna try doing a RR hyperion as well go ahead its got 1 less low slot than the mega but if you think you can do it go ahead and try...
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Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
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Posted - 2009.03.21 21:51:00 -
[1024]
Edited by: Electric Universe on 21/03/2009 21:54:49
Ok, to answer to the reply with Childstar's Abaddon setup.
Your lying if you can fit all of what you said you can fit to an Abaddon without using implants. Because that setup of yours is using 715.25 out of 700 CPU with all skills on level 5.
Yes that Abaddon does 802 raw gun DPS before the drones WITH 3x HS II fitted and faction ammo.
But wait a sec, your way out of CPU here, you have to use a CPU implant here to be able to fit all of that. So you either have to downgrade to the t1 named one if your gonna be able to fit everything. Because the T2 RR use 16 more CPU than the best t1 named. And your Abaddon use 15.25 CPU to much with the T2 RR. Or you can buy a CPU implant.
Ok back to the Megathron.
The setup i use have 1x DC II, 3x MFS II, 2x EANM II's and one 1600mm Plate + 3x t1 Trimarks in low slot. The high slot are 7x Neutrons and one best named t1 RR. The guns also have Caldari Navy Antimatter L ammo.
Ok, the Raw DPS a Blaster Mega does with that is 819 DPS before drones with ONLY 2x MFS II's. It jumps up to 919 raw gun DPS before any drones with 3x MFS'es with all skills on level 5.
The Abaddon only does 992 DPS with 7x t2 pulses and Amarr Navy Multis WITH 3x t2 drones.
Now, the Neutron Mega does 1230 DPS with 7x t2 Neutrons and Caldari Navy Antimatter L ammo + 5 drones. This is with 5x t2 drones.
That's only 24% better DPS than the Pulse Abaddon. Yes the Abaddon have more EHP than the Mega. It's no suprise about that when you have the resist bonus on the Abaddon.
And if 5x Blaster Megas like that are shooting 5x Abaddons with 24% more DPS advantage before resists (how much does this get after the resists?) on each Megas, then the Abaddons will melt bloddy fast i can guarantee you. Doesn't help to have an EHP advantage then on an Abaddon.
Anyways, if we take a more realistic situation like comparing 1 damage mod on each ships. Then the stats will get something else.
Ok lets use this Megathron. 7x t2 Neutrons with CN Antimatter L and 1x best t1 named RR in high.
1x 100MN MWD II, 1x Warp Disruptor II, 1x Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I and 1x Medium Capacitor Booster II in med slot.
1x DC II, 2x EANM II's, 1x ANP II, 2x 1600mm RTP and one Gallente Navy MFS (yes gonna use a faction one on the Abaddon because of that). And then the ship have 3x t1 trimarks.
Before the drones here, the Mega does 694 DPS. After the drones it does 1011 DPS. The Megathron have 77.8% EM, 71.1% Thermal and Kinetic and 60% Explosive resists.
This is also with 141775 EHP and 31454 armor HP.
Now take a look at the Abaddon with one RR fitted.
7x t2 Pulses with Amarr Navy Multis and 1x T2 RR in high
1x 100MN MWD II, 1x Warp Disruptor II, 1x Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I and 1x Heavy Capacitor Booster II in med slot.
1x DC II, 2x EANM II's, 1x ANP II, 2x 1600mm RTP and one Gallente Navy MFS (yes gonna use a faction one on the Abaddon because of that). And then the ship have 3x t1 trimarks.
Yes, i'm using almost the indentical setup in med slot, except that the Mega have a Medium Capacitor Booster II there. The low slot is 100% the same with the same rigs.
Here the Abaddon does 596 DPS before drones. And does A WHOLE OMG 786 DPS with 7 guns after the 3x t2 drones lol.
But here the Abaddon have 197289 EHP and 35341 armor HP. Here the Abaddon have 83.3% EM, 78% Thermal, 75% Kinetic and 73.3% Explosive resists. Yes that's basicly 25% better resists than the Megathron, but then the Megathron have 29% better DPS than the Abaddon.
Now, lets try and compare the only ship from Amarr BS'es that we really can compare with the Megathron, and the ship is the Armageddon. Apocalypse would be a comedy to compare anyways.
The only way to compare right is to compare the Abaddon to a Hyperion and then an Armageddon to a Megathron anyways if you want it to be accurate.
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Childstar
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Posted - 2009.03.21 21:57:00 -
[1025]
Originally by: Electric Universe
Ok, to answer to the reply with Childstar's Abaddon setup.
Your lying if you can fit all of what you said you can fit to an Abaddon without using implants. Because that setup of yours is using 715.25 out of 700 CPU with all skills on level 5.
It uses 715.25/721 with all level5 skills.
Originally by: Electric Universe
Ok back to the Megathron.
The setup i use have 1x DC II, 3x MFS II, 2x EANM II's and one 1600mm Plate + 3x t1 Trimarks in low slot. The high slot are 7x Neutrons and one best named t1 RR. The guns also have Caldari Navy Antimatter L ammo.
OK LETS PAUSE THERE.
BUT WHAT IS IN YOUR MIDS......
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Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
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Posted - 2009.03.21 21:59:00 -
[1026]
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: Electric Universe
Ok, to answer to the reply with Childstar's Abaddon setup.
Your lying if you can fit all of what you said you can fit to an Abaddon without using implants. Because that setup of yours is using 715.25 out of 700 CPU with all skills on level 5.
It uses 715.25/721 with all level5 skills.
No it doesn't. On my EFT it says 700 max CPU with all skills on level 5.
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Childstar
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Posted - 2009.03.21 22:06:00 -
[1027]
Originally by: Electric Universe
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: Electric Universe
Ok, to answer to the reply with Childstar's Abaddon setup.
Your lying if you can fit all of what you said you can fit to an Abaddon without using implants. Because that setup of yours is using 715.25 out of 700 CPU with all skills on level 5.
It uses 715.25/721 with all level5 skills.
No it doesn't. On my EFT it says 700 max CPU with all skills on level 5.
WHATEVER....MINE SAYS 721.
Originally by: Electric Universe
Ok back to the Megathron.
The setup i use have 1x DC II, 3x MFS II, 2x EANM II's and one 1600mm Plate + 3x t1 Trimarks in low slot. The high slot are 7x Neutrons and one best named t1 RR. The guns also have Caldari Navy Antimatter L ammo.
BUT WHAT IS IN YOUR MIDS......
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Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
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Posted - 2009.03.21 22:09:00 -
[1028]
Edited by: Electric Universe on 21/03/2009 22:15:14
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: Electric Universe
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: Electric Universe
Ok, to answer to the reply with Childstar's Abaddon setup.
Your lying if you can fit all of what you said you can fit to an Abaddon without using implants. Because that setup of yours is using 715.25 out of 700 CPU with all skills on level 5.
It uses 715.25/721 with all level5 skills.
No it doesn't. On my EFT it says 700 max CPU with all skills on level 5.
WHATEVER....MINE SAYS 721.
Try plugging some of your implants out of your 'All skills on level 5' character smartypants?.
My 'All skills on level 5' character doesn't have any implants at all.
The implant 'Hardwiring - Zainou 'Gipsy' KMB-50 slot 6 implant gives your Abaddon exactly 721 CPU.
Now stop lying.
Originally by: Childstar
BUT WHAT IS IN YOUR MIDS......
I can tell you exactly what's in my mind. And it's that the Blasters (Neutrons), out damages Pulses by miles before the resists takes places.
I will like to see how much the DPS advantage get after the resists.
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Childstar
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Posted - 2009.03.21 22:14:00 -
[1029]
Edited by: Childstar on 21/03/2009 22:16:35
Originally by: Electric Universe
Try plugging some of your implants out of your 'All skills on level 5' character smartypants?.
My 'All skills on level 5' character doesn't have any implants at all.
The implant 'Hardwiring - Zainou 'Gipsy' KMB-50 slot 6 implant gives your Abaddon 721 CPU.
Now stop lying.
I have no idea how to remove it and did not know it was there as you are the eft pro not me but even so it can easily fit the SOLACE RR on it instead.
And at least i made a honest mistake instead of avoiding the mid slot issue on the mega, just so you could fit a better tank....YOU ARE THE LIAR.
Originally by: Electric Universe
Ok back to the Megathron.
The setup i use have 1x DC II, 3x MFS II, 2x EANM II's and one 1600mm Plate + 3x t1 Trimarks in low slot. The high slot are 7x Neutrons and one best named t1 RR. The guns also have Caldari Navy Antimatter L ammo.
BUT WHAT IS IN YOUR MIDS......
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Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
|
Posted - 2009.03.21 22:16:00 -
[1030]
Originally by: Childstar
BUT WHAT IS IN YOUR MIDS......
I already told you.
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Childstar
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Posted - 2009.03.21 22:18:00 -
[1031]
Edited by: Childstar on 21/03/2009 22:18:09
Originally by: Electric Universe
Originally by: Childstar
BUT WHAT IS IN YOUR MIDS......
I already told you.
SHOW ME OR TELL ME AGAIN I CAN ONLY SEE THESE FITTINGS YOU POSTED...
Originally by: Electric Universe
Ok back to the Megathron.
The setup i use have 1x DC II, 3x MFS II, 2x EANM II's and one 1600mm Plate + 3x t1 Trimarks in low slot. The high slot are 7x Neutrons and one best named t1 RR. The guns also have Caldari Navy Antimatter L ammo.
BUT WHAT IS IN YOUR MIDS......
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Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
|
Posted - 2009.03.21 22:19:00 -
[1032]
Originally by: Childstar
Edited by: Childstar on 21/03/2009 22:18:09
Originally by: Electric Universe
Originally by: Childstar
BUT WHAT IS IN YOUR MIDS......
I already told you.
SHOW ME OR TELL ME AGAIN I CAN ONLY SEE THESE FITTINGS YOU POSTED...
Originally by: Electric Universe
Ok back to the Megathron.
The setup i use have 1x DC II, 3x MFS II, 2x EANM II's and one 1600mm Plate + 3x t1 Trimarks in low slot. The high slot are 7x Neutrons and one best named t1 RR. The guns also have Caldari Navy Antimatter L ammo.
BUT WHAT IS IN YOUR MIDS......
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1016708&page=33#976
That's what's in my mind.
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Childstar
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Posted - 2009.03.21 22:20:00 -
[1033]
Edited by: Childstar on 21/03/2009 22:24:21
Originally by: Electric Universe
That's what's in my mind.
I CANNOT SEE ANY MID SLOT FITTINGS ON THAT LINK APART FROM THESE BELOW.
Originally by: Electric Universe
Ok back to the Megathron.
The setup i use have 1x DC II, 3x MFS II, 2x EANM II's and one 1600mm Plate + 3x t1 Trimarks in low slot. The high slot are 7x Neutrons and one best named t1 RR. The guns also have Caldari Navy Antimatter L ammo.
You claim to be a honest person and call others liars regularly and also say you are about balance and fixing things....so answer the question and post your FULL fit.
SO WHAT IS IN YOUR MIDS......
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Zubakis
Bambooule
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Posted - 2009.03.21 22:24:00 -
[1034]
Originally by: Electric Universe
Originally by: Childstar
Edited by: Childstar on 21/03/2009 22:18:09
Originally by: Electric Universe
Originally by: Childstar
BUT WHAT IS IN YOUR MIDS......
I already told you.
SHOW ME OR TELL ME AGAIN I CAN ONLY SEE THESE FITTINGS YOU POSTED...
Originally by: Electric Universe
Ok back to the Megathron.
The setup i use have 1x DC II, 3x MFS II, 2x EANM II's and one 1600mm Plate + 3x t1 Trimarks in low slot. The high slot are 7x Neutrons and one best named t1 RR. The guns also have Caldari Navy Antimatter L ammo.
BUT WHAT IS IN YOUR MIDS......
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1016708&page=33#976
That's what's in my mind.
I loled, epic.
PS: MIDS != MIND
-- Zuba |
Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
|
Posted - 2009.03.21 22:25:00 -
[1035]
Edited by: Electric Universe on 21/03/2009 22:25:50
Originally by: Childstar
Edited by: Childstar on 21/03/2009 22:24:21
Originally by: Electric Universe
That's what's in my mind.
I CANNOT SEE ANY MID SLOT FITTINGS ON THAT LINK APART FROM THESE BELOW.
Originally by: Electric Universe
Ok back to the Megathron.
The setup i use have 1x DC II, 3x MFS II, 2x EANM II's and one 1600mm Plate + 3x t1 Trimarks in low slot. The high slot are 7x Neutrons and one best named t1 RR. The guns also have Caldari Navy Antimatter L ammo.
You claim to be a honest person and call others liars regularly and also say you are about balance and fixing things....so answer the question and post your FULL fit.
SO WHAT IS IN YOUR MIDS......
Yeah the Mega is a little out of CPU before any cpu implants, but then you compare a tier 2 ship to a tier 3 ship, that is dumb anyways.
Try doing a comparsion with a geddon instead.
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Childstar
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Posted - 2009.03.21 22:28:00 -
[1036]
Edited by: Childstar on 21/03/2009 22:36:06
Originally by: Electric Universe
Yeah the Mega is a little out of CPU before any cpu implants.
Fine then post your fit with CPU implants and including high, mid and low slot modules....try being honest for once in this thread.
And i do not need the geddon cos i have the baddon and its better.
Even with the lowest CPU web and point it is still 739.5/687.5. CPU from what i can see.
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Valor Anselmo
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Posted - 2009.03.21 22:29:00 -
[1037]
Navy Issue Megathron...'nuff said
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Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
|
Posted - 2009.03.21 22:41:00 -
[1038]
Edited by: Electric Universe on 21/03/2009 22:43:51
Originally by: Childstar
Edited by: Childstar on 21/03/2009 22:28:54
Originally by: Electric Universe
Yeah the Mega is a little out of CPU before any cpu implants.
Fine then post your fit with CPU implants and including high, mid and low slot modules....try being honest for once in this thread.
And i do not need the geddon cos i have the baddon and its better.
Yeah yeah, hold on.
Yes the Abaddon is better the CPU way, but in a comparsion your not gonna compare a Mega to an Abaddon anyways. You have to compare the Megathron to the Armageddon because the Apoc is a sniper ship.
The Hyperion is the ship you have to compare the Abaddon with.
Ok, with cpu implants and that. Remember, this is without slave implants.
High-Slot:
7x T2 Neutrons with Caldari Navy Antimatter L
1x Best named T1 RR.
Med-Slot:
1x 100MN MWD II
1x Faint Disruptor
1x Fleeting Web
1x Medium Cap Booster II
Low-Slot:
1x DC II
2x EANM II's
1x 1600mm RTP
3x MFS II's
Rigs:
3x T1 Trimarks
Drones:
5x Ogre II
Implants that are used: Hardwiring - Zainou 'Gipsy' KMB-75 and Hardwiring - Zainou 'Gnome' KZA2000.
It's gets pretty expensive. So in other words, you can buy a Megathron Navy Issue with a nice faction fit and get everything to fit without ANY implants at all for the same price instead. And that Navy Mega will pwn the hell out of the Abaddon anyways.
Originally by: Valor Anselmo
Navy Issue Megathron...'nuff said
Yup, agree. Those are dirt cheap nowdays anyways.
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Childstar
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Posted - 2009.03.21 22:56:00 -
[1039]
Edited by: Childstar on 21/03/2009 23:00:44
Originally by: Electric Universe
Yeah yeah, hold on.
Yes the Abaddon is better the CPU way, but in a comparsion your not gonna compare a Mega to an Abaddon anyways.
The Hyperion is the ship you have to compare the Abaddon with.
Ok, with cpu implants and that. Remember, this is without slave implants.
High-Slot:
7x T2 Neutrons with Caldari Navy Antimatter L
1x Best named T1 RR.
Med-Slot:
1x 100MN MWD II
1x Faint Disruptor
1x Fleeting Web
1x Medium Cap Booster II
Low-Slot:
1x DC II
2x EANM II's
1x 1600mm RTP
3x MFS II's
Rigs:
3x T1 Trimarks
Drones:
5x Ogre II
Implants that are used: Hardwiring - Zainou 'Gipsy' KMB-75 and Hardwiring - Zainou 'Gnome' KZA2000.
It's gets pretty expensive.
It gets bloody expensive. Try 200 mil for the implants...
MEGA RESISTS 75.1 67.6 67.6 55.1 resists VS
ABAD RESISTS 81.3 75.7 71.9 70.1
mega has 20610 armour hp VS 24114.
mega has 96,866 EHP VS 134,371.
Mega has 133 more raw gun dps and 107 more drone dps.
To put it simply the ABADDON is not only many 100's of million cheaper its also a BETTER RR ship.
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Yakov Draken
Minmatar
Tides Of War
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Posted - 2009.03.21 23:00:00 -
[1040]
Originally by: Childstar
Edited by: Childstar on 21/03/2009 22:37:32
Originally by: Electric Universe
Yeah the Mega is a little out of CPU before any cpu implants.
Fine then post your fit with CPU implants and including high, mid and low slot modules....try being honest for once in this thread.
And i do not need the geddon cos i have the baddon and its better.
Even with the lowest CPU web and point it is still 739.25/687.5. CPU from what i can see.
I quick play gives me this no implants fit.
[Megathron, Plated remote rep 3x MFS]
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Internal Force Field Array I
Amarr Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Adaptive Nano Plating II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
100MN MicroWarpdrive II
Conjunctive Magnetometric ECCM Scanning Array I
Warp Scrambler II
Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
Large 'Solace' I Remote Bulwark Reconstruction
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Trimark Armor Pump I
Trimark Armor Pump I
Trimark Armor Pump I
Ogre II x5
Pretty damn brutal ship and the tracking completely outclasses the Abaddon up close. Not my favourite Mega setup but it is roughly what you guys were arguing about and not too pricey.
The Mega is tricky to fit and it pays to have a big wallet. With a big wallet it is a suberb up close brawler. Considering how bad BS tracking is the Mega's leet tracking is very tasty.
The Abaddon is a very nice ship and I like the single RR fit. Abaddon has more range and tank than the Mega while the Mega has better tracking and damage so it is about what you are doing and gang balence.
Tides of War used blasters a lot before the speed chages and we have continued to use them a lot since. Blasters are still pwning up close, the Mega is still awesome, and now we get to laugh about all the people saying blasters are dead.
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Yakov Draken
Minmatar
Tides Of War
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Posted - 2009.03.21 23:05:00 -
[1041]
Originally by: Electric Universe
{mega} gets pretty expensive. So in other words, you can buy a Megathron Navy Issue with a nice faction fit and get everything to fit without ANY implants at all for the same price instead. And that Navy Mega will pwn the hell out of the Abaddon anyways.
1. Mega is not that expensive to fit
2. Navy Mega is incredibly hard/expensive to fit
3. Navy Mega's attract sharks from all round
Navy Mega is an awesome ship but it does not belong in this discussion nor does it need to - the Mega is one of the best BS in the game.
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Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
|
Posted - 2009.03.21 23:08:00 -
[1042]
Edited by: Electric Universe on 21/03/2009 23:14:10
Originally by: Yakov Draken
Pretty damn brutal ship and the tracking completely outclasses the Abaddon up close. Not my favourite Mega setup but it is roughly what you guys were arguing about and not too pricey.
The Mega is tricky to fit and it pays to have a big wallet. With a big wallet it is a suberb up close brawler. Considering how bad BS tracking is the Mega's leet tracking is very tasty.
The Abaddon is a very nice ship and I like the single RR fit. Abaddon has more range and tank than the Mega while the Mega has better tracking and damage so it is about what you are doing and gang balence.
Tides of War used blasters a lot before the speed chages and we have continued to use them a lot since. Blasters are still pwning up close, the Mega is still awesome, and now we get to laugh about all the people saying blasters are dead.
Yeah exactly.
Yeah i should have been thinking about the cheap faction mods instead of the bloody expensive implants doh lol.
No matter how you twist it or comes with excuses, the Blaster Mega is still the most brutal DPS monster in close range, no matter what. So yeah, i agree with you there Yakov Draken.
Originally by: Yakov Draken
Originally by: Electric Universe
{mega} gets pretty expensive. So in other words, you can buy a Megathron Navy Issue with a nice faction fit and get everything to fit without ANY implants at all for the same price instead. And that Navy Mega will pwn the hell out of the Abaddon anyways.
1. Mega is not that expensive to fit
2. Navy Mega is incredibly hard/expensive to fit
3. Navy Mega's attract sharks from all round
Navy Mega is an awesome ship but it does not belong in this discussion nor does it need to - the Mega is one of the best BS in the game.
Yeah i know, i might have been explaining that a bit wrong, if i did.
But all i did mean, was that for the price of the implants you have to use for the last setup i posted, you can buy you a Navy Mega instead for the isk, so i just pointed out that anyways when i know that this is about normal BS'es
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Childstar
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Posted - 2009.03.21 23:25:00 -
[1043]
Edited by: Childstar on 21/03/2009 23:27:56
Originally by: Yakov Draken
I quick play gives me this no implants fit.
[Megathron, Plated remote rep 3x MFS]
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Internal Force Field Array I
Amarr Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Adaptive Nano Plating II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
100MN MicroWarpdrive II
Conjunctive Magnetometric ECCM Scanning Array I
Warp Scrambler II
Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
Large 'Solace' I Remote Bulwark Reconstruction
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Trimark Armor Pump I
Trimark Armor Pump I
Trimark Armor Pump I
Ogre II x5
Pretty damn brutal ship and the tracking completely outclasses the Abaddon up close. Not my favourite Mega setup but it is roughly what you guys were arguing about and not too pricey.
Its not a fit id use for several reasons, firstly no web so whatever tracking you thinks gonna get better dmg at close range over the abaddon in gang combat forget it.
Even standing a chance of slowing down secondary targets ect is also gone out the window although you will be nicely webbed by the baddons...so do not even think your getting close to your optimal against them.
Your armour HP and resists are poor compared to the abaddon and 93,711 EHP vs 134371 EHP will do you no favors at all.
Ok 103 raw gun dps more at 4.5km and 107 more drone dps but the abbadons higher resists would soak that up alone, let alone the buckets more EHP the abaddon has.
Id switch out the eccm for a web and fit a disruptor instead of a scram (if you use named you do not need a cpu implant) and go that way.
But its still not as good or as effective as the abaddon fit.
|
Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
|
Posted - 2009.03.21 23:30:00 -
[1044]
Edited by: Electric Universe on 21/03/2009 23:33:16
Originally by: Childstar
But its still not as good or as effective as the abaddon fit.
But then your comparing a tier 3 ship to a tier 2 ship.
It's no a bomb that a tier 3 ship can be some few % better at SOMETHING than a tier 2 BS.
Now, if we are gonna do things right, then lets compare the Armageddon to the Megathron.
The reason for that is because the Apoc is not the ship that fits into the comparsion with the megathron because the Apoc is a sniper ship.
|
Valor Anselmo
|
Posted - 2009.03.21 23:33:00 -
[1045]
...or the Abadd to the Hyperion
|
Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
|
Posted - 2009.03.21 23:34:00 -
[1046]
Originally by: Valor Anselmo
...or the Abadd to the Hyperion
Yeah, i said that to earlier.
|
Valor Anselmo
|
Posted - 2009.03.21 23:36:00 -
[1047]
its quite funny watching people get all up in arms about how better their ship is...when youre comparing it to a lower class ship
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Childstar
|
Posted - 2009.03.21 23:37:00 -
[1048]
Edited by: Childstar on 21/03/2009 23:38:16
Originally by: Electric Universe
Originally by: Childstar
But its still not as good or as effective as the abaddon fit.
But then your comparing a tier 3 ship to a tier 2 ship.
It's no a bomb that a tier 3 ship can be some few % better at SOMETHING than a tier 2 BS.
Now, if we are gonna do things right, then lets compare the Armageddon to the Megathron.
No we use the ships that can fit the desired modules and be used most effectivly in the specified role, and in this case its the abaddon that out shines by a good margin all the other BS including the mega and geddon as a gang RR boat.
If you wish to compare a hyperion RR setup to it go ahead and post one.
|
Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
|
Posted - 2009.03.21 23:39:00 -
[1049]
Edited by: Electric Universe on 21/03/2009 23:44:31
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: Electric Universe
Originally by: Childstar
But its still not as good or as effective as the abaddon fit.
But then your comparing a tier 3 ship to a tier 2 ship.
It's no a bomb that a tier 3 ship can be some few % better at SOMETHING than a tier 2 BS.
Now, if we are gonna do things right, then lets compare the Armageddon to the Megathron.
No we use the ships that can fit the desired modules and be used most effectivly in the specified role, and in this case its the abaddon that out shines by a good margin all the other BS including the mega and geddon as a gang RR boat.
Ok then, the Hyperion outshines the Abaddon then by a huuuuuuuuuuuuuuge margin. Happy?.
No the right ship to compare with an Abaddon is the Hyperion anyways.
Tier 3 to tier 3.
But if a tier 2 Gallente BS doesn't work with comparing to a tier 2 BS from Amarr, then we have to take a tier 1 BS ship from Amarr.
Because you can compare the tier 3 Gallente BS to the tier 3 Amarr BS. Then you don't compare a tier 2 Gallente BS with a tier 3 Amarr BS when Gallente already have a BS that you can compare the Abaddon with.
|
Chi Quan
Perkone
|
Posted - 2009.03.21 23:47:00 -
[1050]
Edited by: Chi Quan on 21/03/2009 23:48:52
good luck comparing a rr-hype with the above abba
/me sits back and waits for the show
and while we are comparing tiers, how about we compare the mega and the apoc as snipers?
thank god ccp is slowly moving away from the tier system.
----
Ceterum censeo blasters need some tracking love |
|
|
Childstar
|
Posted - 2009.03.21 23:47:00 -
[1051]
Edited by: Childstar on 21/03/2009 23:49:00
Originally by: Electric Universe
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: Electric Universe
Originally by: Childstar
But its still not as good or as effective as the abaddon fit.
But then your comparing a tier 3 ship to a tier 2 ship.
It's no a bomb that a tier 3 ship can be some few % better at SOMETHING than a tier 2 BS.
Now, if we are gonna do things right, then lets compare the Armageddon to the Megathron.
No we use the ships that can fit the desired modules and be used most effectivly in the specified role, and in this case its the abaddon that out shines by a good margin all the other BS including the mega and geddon as a gang RR boat.
Ok then, the Hyperion outshines the Abaddon then by a huuuuuuuuuuuuuuge margin. Happy?.
Wrong or if not post the RR hyperion fit and give us a laugh.
7 x NB t2
1 x solace RR
1 x 100mn mwd
1 x t2 point
2 x named webs
1 x t2 large cap injector
3 x mfs t2
1 x eanm t2
1 x 1600 plate
1 x dcu t2
4 x ogre t2's
95,240 ehp
LOL resists.
133 more raw gun dps and 43 more drone dps.
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Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
|
Posted - 2009.03.21 23:48:00 -
[1052]
Edited by: Electric Universe on 21/03/2009 23:52:59
Originally by: Chi Quan
good luck comparing a rr-hype with the above abba
/me sits back and waits for the show
It's not about comparing RR. It's about comparing the tiers to each others.
And Child, take away that RR on that Hyperion., it doesn't need it.
Plus your Hyperion setup sucks donkey ass.
Post a setup that works on a Hyperion instead. A setup that have with activa tanking to do.
In some situations, an active tanked BS can outperform a passive tanked BS by a large margin.
|
Childstar
|
Posted - 2009.03.21 23:50:00 -
[1053]
Edited by: Childstar on 21/03/2009 23:55:16
Originally by: Electric Universe
Originally by: Chi Quan
good luck comparing a rr-hype with the above abba
/me sits back and waits for the show
It's not about comparing RR. It's about comparing the tiers to each others.
And Child, take away that RR on that Hyperion., it doesn't need it.
So a hyperion gang with no RR vs a abaddon gang with RR...are you taking bets?..
Originally by: Electric Universe
Plus your Hyperion setup sucks donkey ass.
Post a setup that works on a Hyperion instead.
Its a RR setup for a RR discussion, and its not the fit that sucks its the hype that sucks, the only place it actually gets to use its rep bonus is on sissi.
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Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
|
Posted - 2009.03.21 23:54:00 -
[1054]
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: Electric Universe
Originally by: Chi Quan
good luck comparing a rr-hype with the above abba
/me sits back and waits for the show
It's not about comparing RR. It's about comparing the tiers to each others.
And Child, take away that RR on that Hyperion., it doesn't need it.
So a hyperion gang with no RR vs a abaddon gang with RR...are you taking bets?..
I'm taking the bet that the Hyperion is going to tank you to death and laught at you.
Hyperion is a LAR tanked BS.
|
Chi Quan
Perkone
|
Posted - 2009.03.21 23:55:00 -
[1055]
yes Childstar, take it away, put a large repper in there. oh wait, that makes it a non rr-boat
i am seriously roflin'
more
MORE
----
Ceterum censeo blasters need some tracking love |
Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
|
Posted - 2009.03.21 23:58:00 -
[1056]
Haha, yeah like the Hyperion need any RR on him to be able to tank good enough.
|
Childstar
|
Posted - 2009.03.21 23:58:00 -
[1057]
Edited by: Childstar on 21/03/2009 23:59:00
Originally by: Electric Universe
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: Electric Universe
Originally by: Chi Quan
good luck comparing a rr-hype with the above abba
/me sits back and waits for the show
It's not about comparing RR. It's about comparing the tiers to each others.
And Child, take away that RR on that Hyperion., it doesn't need it.
So a hyperion gang with no RR vs a abaddon gang with RR...are you taking bets?..
I'm taking the bet that the Hyperion is going to tank you to death and laught at you.
Hyperion is a LAR tanked BS.
So?, it can only fit 2 at best so the abaddon gang (you refered to 10 in the gangs earlier) have 10 RR + monster EHP and resists vs 10 hyperions with 2 lars each max and crap resists and ehp...lol get your check book ready.
|
Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
|
Posted - 2009.03.22 00:01:00 -
[1058]
Originally by: Childstar
So?, it can only fit 2 at best so the abaddon gang (you refered to 10 in the gangs earlier) have 10 RR + monster EHP and resists vs 10 hyperions with 2 lars each max and crap resists and ehp...lol get your check book ready.
When was a Hyperion an EHP ship?.
Compare the tier 3 to tier 3, nothing else.
When we start doing that, then i think we can find a bit more about how thing are.
|
Childstar
|
Posted - 2009.03.22 00:05:00 -
[1059]
Originally by: Electric Universe
Originally by: Childstar
So?, it can only fit 2 at best so the abaddon gang (you refered to 10 in the gangs earlier) have 10 RR + monster EHP and resists vs 10 hyperions with 2 lars each max and crap resists and ehp...lol get your check book ready.
When was a Hyperion an EHP ship?.
Compare the tier 3 to tier 3, nothing else.
When we start doing that, then i think we can find a bit more about how thing are.
We are comparing, the hyperion gang even with 2 lars fitted each could never tank the 10 abaddon gang, but the 10 abaddons with 1 RR fitted each and their high resists and ehp could easily tank the 10 hyperion gang then 9 hyperion gang...then 8...7...6....5...
|
Yakov Draken
Minmatar
Tides Of War
|
Posted - 2009.03.22 00:08:00 -
[1060]
Edited by: Yakov Draken on 22/03/2009 00:10:02
Originally by: Childstar
Its not a fit id use for several reasons, firstly no web so whatever tracking you thinks gonna get better dmg at close range over the abaddon in gang combat forget it.
I'm sorry but this doesn't make any sense at all. This is a BS fit with a RR for using in a gang - it doesn't have to have a web. The gang has to have the web. We are not talking 1v1's here.
Originally by: Childstar
Even standing a chance of slowing down secondary targets ect is also gone out the window although you will be nicely webbed by the baddons...so do not even think your getting close to your optimal against them.
Is that your Abaddon with no ECCM that can't lock anything because it has been jammed? That was right after we came right out of warp right on top of you. I've fought many, many, times in a short range BS and being too close to the target to track has been a more commmen problem than getting close enough.
I've been told on these forums before that Amarr's range is pwnage and blasters won't get in optimal yet we do it constantly in low sec and I see other people doing it all the time. Remote reps don't have very long range yet somehow we get those on each other.
In a low sec right now pirates are ripping ships to pieces with their blasters, giggling inanely, and drooling on the theoriticans wreck. "Blasters are dead," he cried - and then he died. We even named a Mega after him.
Originally by: Childstar
But its still not as good or as effective as the abaddon fit.
It is different. If you want more damage bring more Mega's - if you want more range and tank bring more Abaddons. If up close tracking is an issue then more Mega's - etc.
Personally I like Mega's with a very different setup to the 3xMFS but regardless I think it is very silly to say an Abaddon is simply better than a Mega when the ships are so different in their strengths. "My ship is better - it is just better!" PvP comes in many styles and flavors in Eve and ships value changes according to usage.
The whole don't compare a tier 2 to a tier 3 BS is wrong. The Typhoon is the best Minmatar BS for low sec piracy and I compare its' setups to Domi's, Mega's, and Abaddons all the time because I, and corpmates, are choosing which to fly and/or train for.
I can't believe people are still moaning over blasters - I'm a Minmatar pilot and we have large AC's - what do you have to complain of? Large AC's are such an awful weapon system that a Tempest with double damage bonus's does crap damage using them. Double damage bonus on a ship whose biggest problem is crap damage? It is un******* believable.
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|
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Chi Quan
Perkone
|
Posted - 2009.03.22 00:10:00 -
[1061]
come on, post that hype fit Electric Universe and i'll give you time-of-survival against those ten abbas for free.
----
Ceterum censeo blasters need some tracking love |
Hell'n
|
Posted - 2009.03.22 00:16:00 -
[1062]
I've seen people keep digging when they are in a hole, but NightmareX takes it to whole new levels.
|
Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
|
Posted - 2009.03.22 00:18:00 -
[1063]
Edited by: Electric Universe on 22/03/2009 00:18:53
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: Electric Universe
Originally by: Childstar
So?, it can only fit 2 at best so the abaddon gang (you refered to 10 in the gangs earlier) have 10 RR + monster EHP and resists vs 10 hyperions with 2 lars each max and crap resists and ehp...lol get your check book ready.
When was a Hyperion an EHP ship?.
Compare the tier 3 to tier 3, nothing else.
When we start doing that, then i think we can find a bit more about how thing are.
We are comparing, the hyperion gang even with 2 lars fitted each could never tank the 10 abaddon gang, but the 10 abaddons with 1 RR fitted each and their high resists and ehp could easily tank the 10 hyperion gang then 9 hyperion gang...then 8...7...6....5...
One Abaddon will NEVER tank 10 gank fitted Hyperions, even with RR's.
I'm not saying the Hyperions will survive though. I'm saying that with Dual LAR and 2x EANM's and one DC II + one MFS II, the Hyperion does 1029 DPS with 4x Ogre II drones.
With 3x Aux Nano Pump I's and one Strong Exile Booster pill, your going to rep 4036 armor HP every 9.56 sec before overload. With overload on, you can rep 4150 armor HP every 9.56 sec.
This is with 75.1% Em and 67.6% Thermal and kinetic + 55.1% to Explosive resists. But then, it can repaier over 4.1k armor hp every cycle.
It still have the highest resists to Lasers (Em and Thermal).
Originally by: Hell'n
I've seen people keep digging when they are in a hole, but NightmareX takes it to whole new levels.
Ehm, what?, i though that NightmareX was banned for 6 more days. Is he unbanned then?.
|
Yakov Draken
Minmatar
Tides Of War
|
Posted - 2009.03.22 00:20:00 -
[1064]
Originally by: Childstar
We are comparing, the hyperion gang even with 2 lars fitted each could never tank the 10 abaddon gang, but the 10 abaddons with 1 RR fitted each and their high resists and ehp could easily tank the 10 hyperion gang then 9 hyperion gang...then 8...7...6....5...
The Hyperion, like all rep amount bonus ships, is suited to very small gangs or solo. Your 10 RR Abaddons vs 10 onboard rep Hyps is not fair.
I don't like the Hyp much at all but I've fought against some used by solo pirates with insane tanks. If you like docking games or the ilk then a Hyp, or Myrm, with an overheated tank run by a pilot on boosters seems to survive pretty well.
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Childstar
|
Posted - 2009.03.22 00:22:00 -
[1065]
Originally by: Yakov Draken
I'm sorry but this doesn't make any sense at all. This is a BS fit with a RR for using in a gang - it doesn't have to have a web. The gang has to have the web. We are not talking 1v1's here.
Look for the mega to do this so called great dmg your talking about it needs to be at at least 4.5km, not only that but it needs to be at 4.5km of every ship it fires on after it has killed the primary.
Meaning that if it lands with its blaster buddies on top of another gang your tackler may web the primary but the rest are going to burn away, meaning that the uber (although not that uber tbh) damage you are talking about can no longer be applied to the secondary targets and on and on.
And if that gang consists of RR abaddons they are going to be matching DPS with you AFTER resists at your optimal of 4.5km and outdamaging you AFTER resists at every other range above that as well as having more tank.
And yes up until a little while ago i flew blaster BS in low sec and 0.0, but that was because i had not finished training amarr...now i have..
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Chi Quan
Perkone
|
Posted - 2009.03.22 00:23:00 -
[1066]
Originally by: Yakov Draken
I'm sorry but this doesn't make any sense at all. This is a BS fit with a RR for using in a gang - it doesn't have to have a web. The gang has to have the web. We are not talking 1v1's here.
....
Is that your Abaddon with no ECCM that can't lock anything because it has been jammed? That was right after we came right out of warp right on top of you.
1. indeed, SOMEONE has to have the web, and while a mega fights in web range it could very well bring one. would you prefer a rapier instead? fine, now modules are not enough to make blasters work, we now need entire ships.
2. last time i checked mega and abba had the same number of mids.
do you want a graph showing the dps of a mega with and without the web? you say you fly minmatar, you should know how fatal the lack of agility is.
----
Ceterum censeo blasters need some tracking love |
Yakov Draken
Minmatar
Tides Of War
|
Posted - 2009.03.22 00:43:00 -
[1067]
Originally by: Chi Quan
Originally by: Yakov Draken
I'm sorry but this doesn't make any sense at all. This is a BS fit with a RR for using in a gang - it doesn't have to have a web. The gang has to have the web. We are not talking 1v1's here.
....
Is that your Abaddon with no ECCM that can't lock anything because it has been jammed? That was right after we came right out of warp right on top of you.
1. indeed, SOMEONE has to have the web, and while a mega fights in web range it could very well bring one. would you prefer a rapier instead? fine, now modules are not enough to make blasters work, we now need entire ships.
So every BS in a gang has to take what it needs to work? In the age of the Falcon this approach is really dodgy. Build you gangs mid slots up as a gang. Fit ECCM or die in a fire unable to remote rep anyone or shot anything.
Stop putting 1 v 1 logic into gang setups.
Originally by: Chi Quan
2. last time i checked mega and abba had the same number of mids.
Right so the Abaddon should give up on the idea of fitting a web and a point and make sure its got an ECCM.
do you want a graph showing the dps of a mega with and without the web? you say you fly minmatar, you should know how fatal the lack of agility is.[/
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Yakov Draken
Minmatar
Tides Of War
|
Posted - 2009.03.22 00:55:00 -
[1068]
Originally by: Childstar
And yes up until a little while ago i flew blaster BS in low sec and 0.0, but that was because i had not finished training amarr...now i have..
You are one of many Gallente BS pilots to go this course including some high profile ones on this forum. It was fun reading about how they pwned in their shiny Abaddon, and then how they seemed to have trouble getting damage on targets up close, and then to see them back in local in Mega's. Gotta love FOTM.
Amarr is cool - Abaddons rock. So does a Mega. We have pilots of both in our corp and this is a good thing. On the whle I prefer the Mega as piracy suits high damage approaches - kill quick (before they de-aggro etc) and get out.
These 10 vs 10 faceups you keep talking about don't have much to do with Eve pvp.
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Childstar
|
Posted - 2009.03.22 00:56:00 -
[1069]
Originally by: Electric Universe
One Abaddon will NEVER tank 10 gank fitted Hyperions, even with RR's.
1029dps per hyperion x 10 = 10290dps - 73ish% (rough estimate of abaddons resists from its 75.7thern/71.9kin) = 2778.3 dps.
1011 dps per abaddon x 10 = 10110dps - 73ish% (rough estimate of hyperions resists from its 75.1% Em and 67.6% Thermal and kinetic) = 2729dps.
Only 50 or so dps in it when you take resists (roughly) into account.
Now look how much more 9 RR can rep compared to even druged and overheated lars as well as the massive more hp the abaddons have.....active tanks just do not cut it on TQ anymore for BS.
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Yakov Draken
Minmatar
Tides Of War
|
Posted - 2009.03.22 01:00:00 -
[1070]
Originally by: Childstar
active tanks just do not cut it on TQ anymore for BS.
I'm a huge fan of passive tanks and RR but please kill the cliche's. Not everyone flies in a gang all the time. Some people actually do solo pvp and kill stuff - yeah I know its supposed to be dead but it is not. Passive RR fits don't cut it solo - just saying.
"Its black!" No it is white!" "It is black!" "No it is white!"
Been awhile since I posted here and I sorta forgot how it works.
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Childstar
|
Posted - 2009.03.22 01:03:00 -
[1071]
Originally by: Yakov Draken
You are one of many Gallente BS pilots to go this course including some high profile ones on this forum. It was fun reading about how they pwned in their shiny Abaddon, and then how they seemed to have trouble getting damage on targets up close, and then to see them back in local in Mega's. Gotta love FOTM.
I have never had trouble hitting other BS in any of the pulse BS, especially those that are sitting on a gate waiting to deagro.
Originally by: Yakov Draken
Amarr is cool - Abaddons rock. So does a Mega. We have pilots of both in our corp and this is a good thing. On the whle I prefer the Mega as piracy suits high damage approaches - kill quick (before they de-aggro etc) and get out.
I have found that over all the pulse do more dps as they can fit 3 dmg mods as well as the fact they do not get reduced dmg because of the need to approach a 4.5km optimal, but can hit for high dmg from the start.
Originally by: Yakov Draken
These 10 vs 10 faceups you keep talking about don't have much to do with Eve pvp.
I agree and while i did not coin the idea or introduce it it does give a better indication than a BS gang ganging a muppet in a BC that just jumped through a gate...
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Childstar
|
Posted - 2009.03.22 01:11:00 -
[1072]
Originally by: Yakov Draken
Originally by: Childstar
active tanks just do not cut it on TQ anymore for BS.
I'm a huge fan of passive tanks and RR but please kill the cliche's. Not everyone flies in a gang all the time. Some people actually do solo pvp and kill stuff - yeah I know its supposed to be dead but it is not. Passive RR fits don't cut it solo - just saying.
Be honest if you are going solo pvping you first choice is no longer a BS is it?.
It has bloody awful lock speed, its dmg can be kited by almost every class smaller than itself or those smaller targets can easily get away if they also have a web and mwd fitted.
In fact the only targets it has are other BS that are naturally a little slower than its is after they have webbed each other and hit their mwds.
Yea i know you can use the mwd killing scram but be honest even with that the era of solo BS work is virtually dead as their are much better ships of other classes that have a much larger target selection to choose from. Now some of these smaller classes that solo can fit active tanks to do it ok.
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Yakov Draken
Minmatar
Tides Of War
|
Posted - 2009.03.22 01:52:00 -
[1073]
Edited by: Yakov Draken on 22/03/2009 02:12:59
Originally by: Childstar
I have never had trouble hitting other BS in any of the pulse BS, especially those that are sitting on a gate waiting to deagro.
I was not thinking of BS's though you will get misses on a BS orbiting up close - say a Typhoon not concerned about tracking. I shoot at a lot of different targets so the ability to kill HAC's, CMD's, BC's, CR's is all part of the equation. BS tracking sucks and it matters.
Originally by: Childstar
I have found that over all the pulse do more dps as they can fit 3 dmg mods as well as the fact they do not get reduced dmg because of the need to approach a 4.5km optimal, but can hit for high dmg from the start.
We fly with a mix of BS's in armor tanked RR gangs. Corp fits and now days mostly a good number of max skilled pilots. We can see what damage we do from killmails and discuss the why's and wherefore's.
- In a gate gank range is crucial.
- In the good fights RR's determine range and generally it up close and brutal.
The Mega comes out fantastically. We use a somewhat quirky lower damage fit and its' damage numbers are still excellent. Abaddons perform very well but all up behind the Mega on contribution to most big fights.
Where the Abaddon shines is in chaotic mixed range combats and there they are a huge boon. Chaotic mixed range combats are not generally what RR BS's are best at so that is not the sort of fight we try and setup but it is nice to have options.
The 25% extra resists of the Abaddon doesn't mean much to the gang unless all Abaddons or you are a bait ship. It helps to get *you* out alive but what matters to the gang is the HP's/resists of the primary/secondary/tertiary (ie not the Abaddons), the groups damage and the amount of remote repping happening. Having overtanked ships (ie greater than the rest) in a gang gives diminished returns especially if it is an obvious bait ship like the Abaddon.
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Yakov Draken
Minmatar
Tides Of War
|
Posted - 2009.03.22 02:10:00 -
[1074]
Originally by: Childstar
Be honest if you are going solo pvping you first choice is no longer a BS is it?
No it is not. Never was for me though I have solo'd (with alt scout) in an active tank Tempest and will do it again given the right target. Mission running BS needing to traverse a gate, random dude undocking from our station of death etc.
I have trashed the Hyperion many time *but* recently a corp mate decided to look at a Hyperion version of his solo Myrm and the resulting fit is goddam hilarious. I still don't like the Hyperion on the whole but I believe there is at least one viable version for solo combat. Successful solo fits can be very wacky.
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Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
|
Posted - 2009.03.22 02:25:00 -
[1075]
Edited by: Electric Universe on 22/03/2009 02:28:24
Originally by: Childstar
Now look how much more 9 RR can rep compared to even druged and overheated lars as well as the massive more hp the abaddons have.....active tanks just do not cut it on TQ anymore for BS.
Yeah if the Abaddons even have the time to lock and start a rep before 10 gank Hyperions have killed one Abaddon.
And no, your wrong about some few thing when it's about active tanking. In 0.0 space in gangs, active tanking is not used. In med sized gangs in empire or low sec, active reps are not used much, but they are used some few times.
BUT, when you comes to solo PVP and very small gang PVP, then active repping can be very good.
So saying active repping is not good or anything used on TQ now is a lie. It's still being used.
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Hell'n
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Posted - 2009.03.22 03:05:00 -
[1076]
Originally by: Electric Universe AKA NightmareX
Stuffy stuff
sisi?
|
Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
|
Posted - 2009.03.22 03:07:00 -
[1077]
Edited by: Electric Universe on 22/03/2009 03:07:46
Originally by: Hell'n AKA noob alt without any clues about PVP
Originally by: Electric Universe
Stuffy stuff
sisi?
Bitter?.
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hostile chick
|
Posted - 2009.03.22 04:49:00 -
[1078]
Originally by: Electric Universe
Edited by: Electric Universe on 22/03/2009 03:07:46
Originally by: Hell'n AKA noob alt without any clues about PVP
Originally by: Electric Universe
Stuffy stuff
sisi?
Bitter?.
I just have to ask, Electric do you activly PvP in small to medium gangs on TQ ?
Do you fly blaster megas at all in PvP on TQ ?
And how many Blaster megas have you lost tring to get into that tiny optimal for your blasters ?
If you have not lost it after getting to the first target, the second is just pure hell against a good gang.
As a maxed skilled Blaster piolt I can confirm that Amarr is now my training queue.
Just asking for your honest experiance, nothing more.
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TrollmoreX
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Posted - 2009.03.22 08:02:00 -
[1079]
Taking bets now on Electric Universe aka NightmareX getting his second account banned for at least 30days soon.
ps. Hi5 my trolling brosef.
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Goumindong
Amarr
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.03.22 08:34:00 -
[1080]
Originally by: Cohkka
We're not discovering balance, at least I'm discovering usefulness.
If you go into a situation with the intent to prove a point, it is no wonder you end up with an incorrect conclusion.
Originally by: ChalSto
To kill that "Blasters do about 30% more dmg than Lasers"-commend once and for all (and for everyone to understand):
The net-dmg "advantage" of a Bthron over an abddon/geddon on
realistic TQ-combat scenario
is 3%.
This is not true.
Originally by: Chi Quan
from the last Allience Tournament
_NAVY_ Mega performance
Abadon & Pulses performance
now switch the ships around, how would Megas have fared in the second video and how would Abbas have performed in the first?
For someone so hung up on "sisi combat" you've got an interesting idea of "evidence". The rules for the alliance tournament are so removed from TQ combat that they will give you less of an idea of competence than fighting on sisi.
Also, kudo's picking and choosing...
Originally by: Childstar
And obviosly the cap and damage bonuses for not needing to burn towards each target.
You obviously don't understand how RR gangs work. Nor do you understand the cap use on lasers...
Also, a 1 MFS megathron is very inefficient, you give up more DPS than you gain in EHP.
Furthermore, the Megathron has a much larger ability to either project DPS with its drones(5x sentries), or repair(5x heavy rep drones)
Quote:
It uses 715.25/721 with all level5 skills.
The Abaddon only has 700 CPU with all skills, check your implants. 700 x 1.03 = 721.
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Childstar
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Posted - 2009.03.22 09:47:00 -
[1081]
Originally by: Childstar
Now look how much more 9 RR can rep compared to even druged and overheated lars as well as the massive more hp the abaddons have.....active tanks just do not cut it on TQ anymore for BS.
Originally by: Electric Universe
Yeah if the Abaddons even have the time to lock and start a rep before 10 gank Hyperions have killed one Abaddon.
1. The ships have roughly the same lock time.
2. After the resists on the abaddon the 10 hyperions will be doing only 2700 dps with PERFECT conditions...givivg plenty of time for the baddons to RR each other.
Originally by: Electric Universe
BUT, when you comes to solo PVP and very small gang PVP, then active repping can be very good.
So saying active repping is not good or anything used on TQ now is a lie. It's still being used.
Solo active tanking BS charging around killing things in empire, low sec or 0.0 is probably the rarest form of pvp in the game. And the reason for that is because the available targets for solo a BS hovers around 0, while the number ships that can easily kite and hold it long enough for buddies to arrive or just kite and kill is MASSIVE.
Do not get me wrong i wish this was not the truth but that does not change the fact it is.
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Childstar
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Posted - 2009.03.22 10:06:00 -
[1082]
Edited by: Childstar on 22/03/2009 10:05:49
Originally by: Childstar
And obviosly the cap and damage bonuses for not needing to burn towards each target.
Originally by: Goumindong
You obviously don't understand how RR gangs work. Nor do you understand the cap use on lasers...
I understand fine as i have flown in loads, mostly in blaster BS actually.
And if i weanted my megas to do their 4.5km max dmg i needed to burn towards targets in a fight and use my mwd to do it or slow burn doing lower dps, that is a basic fact of blaster combat.
The cap use on lasers is not important as a booster easily takes care of it.
Originally by: Goumindong
Also, a 1 MFS megathron is very inefficient, you give up more DPS than you gain in EHP.
Tell that to nightmares alt its his fit not mine.
Originally by: Goumindong
Furthermore, the Megathron has a much larger ability to either project DPS with its drones(5x sentries), or repair(5x heavy rep drones)
The mega can fit 5 sentry drones the baddon can fit 3, so the mega does 120 more raw drone dmg AT RANGE using sentries and 133 more raw gun dmg at 4.5km if it uses 3 mag stabs....big whoop.
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Goumindong
Amarr
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.03.22 10:21:00 -
[1083]
Originally by: Childstar
1. The ships have roughly the same lock time.
10 Hyperions might not have the DPS to get it done, but the issue involved is not what the relative lock times are. The issue is that you have no way to know who they are going to shoot. When you're in an RR gang you can only start locking once the other side is doing damage and you can only start RRing after that. And the armor takes 4.25 seconds to get there after you lock(assuming overloaded RR's)
EFT tells me that it will take 8 seconds to lock your abaddon without an mwd turned on(4 seconds turned on), so you're going to get about 3-4 volleys off from initial damage to when the reps start landing. Assuming your DPS numbers are correct(and i doubt them, but eh), you get about 13-17 equivalent seconds of DPS from the Hyperions, 35073-46764 raw damage, which would leave the Abaddons without about 8000 to negative 2800 hit points left(real number on the top side will be a lot less because this counts the 8750 shield the same as the armor and structure)
So it looks to be pretty close, especially with a bit of reaction time lag or lock lag. Real efficiency is probably a bit lower, i wouldn't want to use 10 Hyps as a gang gang in that situation without ECM backup.(even if the abaddons have ECM backup)
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Goumindong
Amarr
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.03.22 10:26:00 -
[1084]
Originally by: Childstar
And if i weanted my megas to do their 4.5km max dmg i needed to burn towards targets in a fight and use my mwd to do it or slow burn doing lower dps, that is a basic fact of blaster combat.
1/10, try harder next time.
Quote:
Tell that to nightmares alt its his fit not mine.
I posted it on a forum for all to read, did I not?
Quote:
The mega can fit 5 sentry drones the baddon can fit 3, so the mega does 120 more raw drone dmg AT RANGE using sentries and 133 more raw gun dmg at 4.5km if it uses 3 mag stabs....big whoop
So you're saying that a 25% more raw damage is not an advantage?
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Childstar
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Posted - 2009.03.22 10:41:00 -
[1085]
Originally by: Goumindong
Originally by: Childstar
And if i weanted my megas to do their 4.5km max dmg i needed to burn towards targets in a fight and use my mwd to do it or slow burn doing lower dps, that is a basic fact of blaster combat.
1/10, try harder next time.
Il tell you what you fly blaster ships for a few years then come on here and tell ppl what they are like ok?.
Originally by: Goumindong
So you're saying that a 25% more raw damage is not an advantage?
Considering the available range for that extra dmg vs the abaddons available range for its dmg and the comparative tanks/resists that the mega and abaddon have especially when the mega fits the 3 mag stabs to achieve that extra dmg id say its very poor.
The abaddon it just the better RR ship deal with it.
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Childstar
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Posted - 2009.03.22 11:06:00 -
[1086]
Edited by: Childstar on 22/03/2009 11:11:46
Originally by: Goumindong
Originally by: Childstar
1. The ships have roughly the same lock time.
10 Hyperions might not have the DPS to get it done, but the issue involved is not what the relative lock times are. The issue is that you have no way to know who they are going to shoot. When you're in an RR gang you can only start locking once the other side is doing damage and you can only start RRing after that. And the armor takes 4.25 seconds to get there after you lock(assuming overloaded RR's)
Wrong you can start locking your buddies for RR as soon as the hostile ships start locking them as targetting shows on overviews, you may need to wait for the first volley from the first ship to know who to rep (although my money would be on the first ship they started to lock as ppl call primary, secondary ect ect in order) but you will certainly know who of your buddies to lock as soon as the hypies start locking them.
Basic error dude get more xp in actual combat...
So as soon as the first hype fires on your buddy (proly on the first of your ships he locks as most ppl lock the primary first then the secondary ect ect) you can start repping, so at best the hypies are gonna get two volleys for the first remote rep cycle.
Oh and do not forget to factor in that it is not a 1 sided fight with the abaddons only being able to lock and rep each other (who would make that basic paper tiger error?...oh wait...).
Originally by: Goumindong
EFT tells me that it will take 8 seconds to lock your abaddon without an mwd turned on(4 seconds turned on), so you're going to get about 3-4 volleys off from initial damage to when the reps start landing. Assuming your DPS numbers are correct(and i doubt them, but eh), you get about 13-17 equivalent seconds of DPS from the Hyperions, 35073-46764 raw damage, which would leave the Abaddons without about 8000 to negative 2800 hit points left(real number on the top side will be a lot less because this counts the 8750 shield the same as the armor and structure)
The abaddons will have locked the hypies and be firing at the same time even in the worst case for the abaddons as fast as the hypies locked and fired, or in the best case for the abaddons they lock faster as the megas need to mwd burn into optimal range. Oh and the obvious fact that ALL the hypies need to be at perfect optimal ranges as soon as they start firing to do the FULL dps you are talking about.
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Childstar
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Posted - 2009.03.22 11:21:00 -
[1087]
Id also be interested in seeing the full twin rep hyperion fit you and others are going on about.
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Kagura Nikon
Minmatar
M. Corp
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Posted - 2009.03.22 11:31:00 -
[1088]
Originally by: Goumindong
Originally by: Childstar
1. The ships have roughly the same lock time.
10 Hyperions might not have the DPS to get it done, but the issue involved is not what the relative lock times are. The issue is that you have no way to know who they are going to shoot. When you're in an RR gang you can only start locking once the other side is doing damage and you can only start RRing after that. And the armor takes 4.25 seconds to get there after you lock(assuming overloaded RR's)
That is the reason why you bring 1 Faction battleship or a famous eve personality to every RR gang! So you know who will be primaried!
-------------------------------------------------
If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
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Goumindong
Amarr
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.03.22 11:40:00 -
[1089]
Originally by: Childstar
Wrong you can start locking your buddies for RR as soon as the hostile ships start locking them as targetting shows on overviews,
Finished locks show on the overview. Nothing shows on the overview until the lock has been completed.
Yellow indicates lock, red indicates lock and aggression. As far as i know, this has never changed in the history of eve.
Quote:
Oh and do not forget to factor in that it is not a 1 sided fight with the abaddons only being able to lock and rep each other
I am not, i told you i wouldn't want to bring the Hyps in there like that without ECM support, but the issue in their volleying the targets is true. this is why RR gangs can lose people when they're not just outgunned.
The reasons the Hyps lose is that the ability to volley targets diminishes as the available forces deplete on each side of the fight.
Quote:
Id also be interested in seeing the full twin rep hyperion fit you and others are going on about.
I am not going on about a full twin rep Hyperion, so i can't answer that question.
Originally by: Childstar
Il tell you what you fly blaster ships for a few years then come on here and tell ppl what they are like ok?.
"!" is telling me that I need more experience?
Quote:
Considering the available range for that extra dmg vs the abaddons available range for its dmg and the comparative tanks/resists that the mega and abaddon have especially when the mega fits the 3 mag stabs to achieve that extra dmg id say its very poor.
The abaddon it just the better RR ship deal with it.
The questions are
A: Where are you fighting?
B: How much EHP did you give up to get it?
C: What effect does resistances have on the equation.
Answer the questions and you'll find interesting results.
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Childstar
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Posted - 2009.03.22 12:33:00 -
[1090]
Edited by: Childstar on 22/03/2009 12:33:09
Originally by: Goumindong
A: Where are you fighting?
Rather broad and unspecific question, do you mean empire, low sec, 0.0 or gates, belts, stations?.
Are you refering to the ship type in question needing to be at a very close range to be effective and so almost always needing to warp in on and/or burn towards each of its oposing targets during the fight, or ships with a more versitile range?.
Do you include factors like the oposing gangs ability to gain distance during a fight reducing the DPS of ships needing to be in close?.
I think all these and others should be considered tbh..
Originally by: Goumindong
B: How much EHP did you give up to get it?
Ehp is relative to the ammount you had in the first place and the amount you still have compared to other ships in your class.
The 3x HS RR abaddon fits has:
134,371 EHP.
The 3x MS RR megathron fit has:
93,711 EHP
Originally by: Goumindong
C: What effect does resistances have on the equation.
Shield resists and HP:
The RR 3 x HS abad has 12.5em, 30thr, 47.5kin, 56.3ex and 8750 hp.
The RR 3 x MS mega has 11.5em, 29.2thr, 46.9kin, 55.8ex and 7764 hp.
The RR 3 x HS abad has 81.3em, 75.7thr, 71.9kin, 70.1ex.
The 3x HS RR abaddon fits has 24144 armour HP with those resists.
The RR 3 x MS mega has 74.3em, 66.5thr, 66.5kin, 53.7ex. (needed a amarr navy eanm and a best named DCU to fit the mega btw).
The 3x MS RR megathron fit has 20619 armour HP with those resists.
Hull resists and HP:
The RR 3 x HS abad has 60% resists on all and 10,000 hp.
The RR 3 x MS mega has 58% resists on all and 9375 HP.
The damage done and ranges are:
The RR 3 x HS Abad fit does 802 raw gun dps out to 15km and 210 drone dps (180 with sentries).
The RR 3 x MS mega fit does 935 raw gun dps out to 4.5km and 317 drone dps (300 with sentries).
Abaddon wins...
The end.
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Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
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Posted - 2009.03.22 12:46:00 -
[1091]
Edited by: Electric Universe on 22/03/2009 12:54:25
Originally by: Childstar
Abaddon wins...
The end.
Stats wise yeah, but does it wins PVP wise?, mmmmmmmmmm not so sure about that.
When you start to compare a tier 3 ship to a tier 2 ship, it's ofc no suprises that the tier 3 ship gets out with the best stats.
But the stats is not telling how the ship will be in real PVP. Or some stats will tell how it will be.
Originally by: TrollmoreX
Taking bets now on Electric Universe aka NightmareX getting his second account banned for at least 30days soon.
ps. Hi5 my trolling brosef.
Taking bets that your very very very bitter because NightmareX did prove you to be wrong in absolutely everything about something, and then you got bitter and had to make an alt that looks like him. And then pretend to be NightmareX.
DAMN, talk about getting pwned.
HI5 bitter person.
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Cohkka
Celestial Apocalypse
death from above..
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Posted - 2009.03.22 12:54:00 -
[1092]
Originally by: Yakov Draken
Personally I like Mega's with a very different setup to the 3xMFS but regardless I think it is very silly to say an Abaddon is simply better than a Mega when the ships are so different in their strengths. "My ship is better - it is just better!" PvP comes in many styles and flavors in Eve and ships value changes according to usage.
This is very true, and this is the exact reason for a thread like this. Blasters work good in their intended role, but how many people do perform in this role? Their role of dealing as much damage as possible only pays of when the target has any significant tank and it's speed, distance and the size of the gang works in your favor. You're very limited in the possible tasks you can perform well and you have to sacrifice your surviveability and flexability for this. For me personally, blasters have little value appart from the odd "lets have some fun and giggles and crash our ships into the next gang we come across".
Don't speak english, just F5, F5, F5... |
Childstar
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Posted - 2009.03.22 13:18:00 -
[1093]
Edited by: Childstar on 22/03/2009 13:25:42
Originally by: Electric Universe
Stats wise yeah, but does it wins PVP wise?, mmmmmmmmmm not so sure about that.
When you start to compare a tier 3 ship to a tier 2 ship, it's ofc no suprises that the tier 3 ship gets out with the best stats.
But the stats is not telling how the ship will be in real PVP. Or some stats will tell how it will be.
Im not comparing tier 1 to tier 2 or 3 im comparing available and viable RR BS by race and the abaddon is by far the best.
3 main points without going into too much detail.
1. Better resists against all forms of dmg and so better at tanking ALL the other races dmg types (mega 53.7 explosive resist on armour lol).
2. Much larger EHP/armour/shiled/hull with those resists.
3. Much greater available damage range so no need to limit its available combat to close range warpins and/or burn after moving targets.
Just a bucket tonne better combat vehicle for RR gangs than the mega.
PS: The only thing that nightmareX/you have ever proved is your lack of knowledge about TQ BS pvp and over these last few pages your lack of knowledge about not only how to fit a RR mega but also your lack of initial honesty in posting the problem with fitting it.
At least eventually you grew a pair and fessed up and that actually scored you a lot more points than what you are trying to do now and make vague comments about "real pvp" with no content in the hopes of discrediting the facts.
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Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
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Posted - 2009.03.22 13:30:00 -
[1094]
Originally by: Cohkka
Originally by: Yakov Draken
Personally I like Mega's with a very different setup to the 3xMFS but regardless I think it is very silly to say an Abaddon is simply better than a Mega when the ships are so different in their strengths. "My ship is better - it is just better!" PvP comes in many styles and flavors in Eve and ships value changes according to usage.
This is very true, and this is the exact reason for a thread like this. Blasters work good in their intended role, but how many people do perform in this role? Their role of dealing as much damage as possible only pays of when the target has any significant tank and it's speed, distance and the size of the gang works in your favor. You're very limited in the possible tasks you can perform well and you have to sacrifice your surviveability and flexability for this.
Yes i agree to that to some points.
When you have a gang with lots of Blaster ships, you need to think out a plan on how you are going to attack and how your gonna start the fight etc etc.
You have to do many things in PVP pretty much 100% right if your in a Blaster ship. For example, if you screw up on warping in right on top of the enemies for example, then you might screw up the whole fight for the Blaster gang.
1. So when your in Blaster ships, you need a Covert Ops in your gang that can go to a posistion where we can warp in to him at 50 km for example and then land right on top of the enemies. This is very important to get done for the Blaster ships, no matter what we have to use to get close to the enemies. If we fail to get right on top of the enemies, we might aslo lose the whole fight.
2. You also need to know whos your primary and secondary 3rd target & 4th target before you warp in and start the fight. If not, your going to lose seconds, and losing seconds with Blasters is not a good idea.
3. Everybody in gang that have web and disruptors need to know that they have to spread out on the points and webs after we have warped in, so they don't get so fast out of the Blasters range.
4. All have to shoot the primary when the FC have said shoot the primary. I know that someone that starts to shoot the secondary long before the primary are dead, so that's wrong. Well this mostly applies to all gangs though, not just this gang.
5. Everybody need to make sure that their drones are on the right targets, also on the targets that are been called to be shoot by the FC.
6. Everybody in the gang need to stay close to each others if you want to be RR'ed by the other ships.
I'm sure there are more points that are important to in a fight. But the point is, if you fail to do one of those things, you risk to screw up the whole fight.
It's much easier to be in a Laser ship, because of the range, but even when the Lasers have more range doesn't mean it's better to use.
It just means it's more easy mode for Amarr. Atm, both Gallente and Minmatar are on hard mode FYI.
But even when it's hard mode doesn't mean the ships to those 2 races are any more crap than the easy mode ships. It only means you don't have to think about so much as you have to do with Gallente and Minmatar ships in an Amarr ship.
Yes, it's very important that you do EVERY of the 6 points over 100% right if you want to have a successfull fight if your in a Blaster gang.
If there is another gang that warps in on us, then things might get a bit different. But because i don't have enough characters left to write about that here now, then i wont get into that in this post.
And for me, it's much much better to play EVE in hard mode, because it gives me more action and more thriller. And it's much much more fun.
So for me, it's no suprises why some players are going from hard mode races to Amarr race that is more easy mode now.
That's how i see it.
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Childstar
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Posted - 2009.03.22 13:53:00 -
[1095]
Originally by: Electric Universe
1. So when your in Blaster ships, you need a Covert Ops in your gang that can go to a posistion where we can warp in to him at 50 km for example and then land right on top of the enemies. This is very important to get done for the Blaster ships, no matter what we have to use to get close to the enemies. If we fail to get right on top of the enemies, we might aslo lose the whole fight.
Warping in at any range to a gang requires a cov ops to get position, unless the oposing gang is in a warpable position. If the oposing gang is not in a easily warpable position the cov ops requirement is always needed to give a gang the initial advantage over one of a differant range.
Originally by: Electric Universe
2. You also need to know whos your primary and secondary 3rd target & 4th target before you warp in and start the fight. If not, your going to lose seconds, and losing seconds with Blasters is not a good idea.
Also nice knowledge to have no matter the gang type, although pre-calling targets especially in a blaster gang can be a bad idea as the targets may have moved position slightly by the time you exit warp and it does not take much distance to reduce blaster DPS.
Originally by: Electric Universe
3. Everybody in gang that have web and disruptors need to know that they have to spread out on the points and webs after we have warped in, so they don't get so fast out of the Blasters range.
You see you did learn something from this thread, have you considered though how long the supposed gang you are fighting would need to sit still while you, get position, assign each of your ships a single target to web ect ect?.
Originally by: Electric Universe
4. All have to shoot the primary when the FC have said shoot the primary. I know that someone that starts to shoot the secondary long before the primary are dead, so that's wrong. Well this mostly applies to all gangs though, not just this gang.
It pretty much applies to all close range turret gangs, missile/torp users can switch if they are experianced enough and can compare the dmg the target is taking to its weapons flight time.
Originally by: Electric Universe
5. Everybody need to make sure that their drones are on the right targets, also on the targets that are been called to be shoot by the FC.
6. Everybody in the gang need to stay close to each others if you want to be RR'ed by the other ships.
Pretty basic gang combat instructions tbh and hardly things that are only applicable to blaster gangs.
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Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
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Posted - 2009.03.22 14:00:00 -
[1096]
Edited by: Electric Universe on 22/03/2009 14:06:19
Child, no no, i'm just saying that if you fail at doing 1 of those things right with Blaster ships, you will most likely screw up things 754856930 times faster than you do with Amarr BS'es.
With Laser ships, you can just press F1-F8 and watch the fireworks in most situations. But with Blaster fitted ships, you have to be extremely carefull on what your doing. Do one mistake and you might end up dead.
But on the other hand, if your doing everything right and know what your doing, then the Blaster Megas for example will be a hard nut to crack. No matter what the stats is.
I hope you see now what my real reason behind my post there was.
And to your response to my number 3 Child. I didn't learn anything from this topic about number 3, this was something that i already did know ages before this topic even was made.
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Childstar
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Posted - 2009.03.22 14:41:00 -
[1097]
Originally by: Electric Universe
Child, no no, i'm just saying that if you fail at doing 1 of those things right with Blaster BS'es, you will most likely screw up things 754856930 times faster than you do with Amarr BS'es.
With Laser ships, you can just press F1-F8 and watch the fireworks in most situations. But with Blaster fitted ships, you have to be extremely carefull on what your doing. Do one mistake and you might end up dead.
But on the other hand, if your doing everything right and know what your doing, then the Blaster Megas for example will be a VERY VERY hard nut to crack. No matter what the stats on the ships is.
A gang of equal or smaller size all bunched up in a system long enough for your blaster gang (that also can be seen on local) to get their covops to make a warpin position and for you assign the first 1-4 ships to kill and also long enough for you to devide up each of the other ships to a seperate gang member for tertiary webbing/tackling?.
Oh and they cannot be moving or orbiting anything or they will be out of blaster optimal damage range or at least find it easy to burn out as your gang lands?.
Good luck finding anything like that tbh.
Originally by: Electric Universe
And to your response to my number 3 Child. I didn't learn anything from this topic about number 3, this was something that i already did know ages before this topic even was made.
Actually you have learned you cannot fit a RR mega the way you want to and that it is nowhere near as good as you thought it was.
Your post about the 2 LAR hyperion was also totally unrealistic considering that with just its 8 x nuetrons and 2 lars fitted it is using more PG than it has with lvl5 skills 21613.6/19687.5 and that is without a mwd or cap injector let alone the CPU needs for those 5 mids and the low slot tank/modules.
So tbh fella all you have really shown in this thread is that you do not know how to even fit gallente BS let alone fly them and also that it is you who looks at a single stat (be it resist or dmg type/ammount) and makes wild claims about them and the ability of the ships with them.
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ChalSto
LOCKDOWN.
Force Of Evil
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Posted - 2009.03.22 16:26:00 -
[1098]
Originally by: Goumindong
Originally by: ChalSto
To kill that "Blasters do about 30% more dmg than Lasers"-commend once and for all (and for everyone to understand):
The net-dmg "advantage" of a Bthron over an abddon/geddon on
realistic TQ-combat scenario
is 3%.
This is not true.
Dont cut my posts to twist them for your false informations and experiences.
I¦ve posted clear and honest and for everyone to understand.
Originally by: Agmar
-----------------------------------------------
"The North is so ghey that even the NPCs fly ravens." |
Childstar
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Posted - 2009.03.22 16:41:00 -
[1099]
Originally by: ChalSto
Originally by: Goumindong
Originally by: ChalSto
To kill that "Blasters do about 30% more dmg than Lasers"-commend once and for all (and for everyone to understand):
The net-dmg "advantage" of a Bthron over an abddon/geddon on
realistic TQ-combat scenario
is 3%.
This is not true.
Dont cut my posts to twist them for your false informations and experiences.
I¦ve posted clear and honest and for everyone to understand.
Yea well thats gourmie for you...
I have not done the math exactly but considering how the standardly fit RR mega has such gimped resists and HP 74.3em, 66.5thr, 66.5kin, 53.7ex on 20619 HP. Against the abaddon with 81.3em, 75.7thr, 71.9kin, 70.1ex on 24144 HP.
Id say that the blasters getting 30% more damage than lasers comments that have been thrown around are rather exhagerated and the exact figure is actually considerably less.
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Goumindong
Amarr
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.03.22 17:53:00 -
[1100]
Originally by: ChalSto
Dont cut my posts to twist them for your false informations and experiences.
I¦ve posted clear and honest and for everyone to understand.
You were cut for space. Anyone is free to go back and see what you wrote, I am not stopping them. Furthermore you did not propose or posit an argument, you only stated a supposed fact(which isn't). Without an explanation of how you got your number it is worse than worthless.
Originally by: Childstar
Rather broad and unspecific question, do you mean empire, low sec, 0.0 or gates, belts, stations?.
All of the above
Quote:
Do you include factors like the oposing gangs ability to gain distance during a fight reducing the DPS of ships needing to be in close?.
What is this ability for an RR gang?
Quote:
Ehp is relative to the ammount you had in the first place and the amount you still have compared to other ships in your class.
Is that why you won't answer the question?
Quote:
Shield resists and HP:
The RR 3 x HS abad has 12.5em, 30thr, 47.5kin, 56.3ex and 8750 hp.
The RR 3 x MS mega has 11.5em, 29.2thr, 46.9kin, 55.8ex and 7764 hp.
Effect, i want to know what effect resistance has. I do not care for raw numbers that mean nothing.
You see, if the Mega is doing more effective DPS than the Abaddon has an effective hit point increase(relative to each others damage) then it has a significant advantage.
Originally by: Childstar
I have not done the math exactly but considering how the standardly fit RR mega has such gimped resists and HP 74.3em, 66.5thr, 66.5kin, 53.7ex on 20619 HP. Against the abaddon with 81.3em, 75.7thr, 71.9kin, 70.1ex on 24144 HP.
Id say that the blasters getting 30% more damage than lasers comments that have been thrown around are rather exhagerated and the exact figure is actually considerably less.
I have done the math, and yea, its about 35% more DPS after resistances. Hell, i've presented the math for you to go over in this thread.
Its not exaggerated(example target was a low hit point value armageddon). You're wrong.
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Childstar
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Posted - 2009.03.22 18:12:00 -
[1101]
Edited by: Childstar on 22/03/2009 18:14:43
Originally by: Goumindong
Quote:
Ehp is relative to the ammount you had in the first place and the amount you still have compared to other ships in your class.
Is that why you won't answer the question?
The question is answered, now if it is not answered in the way you want it to be answered or if the answer is just not to your liking i suggest you get over it or ask better and more clear question.
Or just grow a pair and make whatever statment or point you think your question should provoke.
Originally by: Goumindong
Effect, i want to know what effect resistance has. I do not care for raw numbers that mean nothing.
Fine the effect of the resists on the mega is that the mega tanks poorly and especially against explosive when compared to the abbadons resists that give great coverage against all.
Originally by: Goumindong
I have done the math, and yea, its about 35% more DPS after resistances. Hell, i've presented the math for you to go over in this thread.
Its not exaggerated(example target was a low hit point value armageddon). You're wrong.
Like anybody believes you anymore, you play with words and numbers all to avoid the truth in every thread you post in...
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Seishi Maru
M. Corp
Mostly Harmless
|
Posted - 2009.03.22 18:17:00 -
[1102]
The funny part is after all that arguing about the mega vs abadon, the "horrible"typhoon can still defeat both :P
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Childstar
|
Posted - 2009.03.22 18:21:00 -
[1103]
Edited by: Childstar on 22/03/2009 18:22:20
Originally by: Seishi Maru
The funny part is after all that arguing about the mega vs abadon, the "horrible"typhoon can still defeat both :P
I have never seen a gang of RR phoons or even just a standard gang of them for that matter whats the fit?.
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Hell'n
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Posted - 2009.03.22 18:22:00 -
[1104]
Originally by: Electric Universe AKA NightmareX without any clues about PvP on TQ
Originally by: Hell'n
Originally by: Electric Universe AKA NightmareX without any clues about PvP on TQ
Stuffy stuff
sisi?
Bitter?.
No need to get upset, we understand why you fail, it's OK to cry.
Originally by: TrollmoreX
ps. Hi5 my trolling brosef.
Hi5
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ChalSto
LOCKDOWN.
Force Of Evil
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Posted - 2009.03.22 18:31:00 -
[1105]
Originally by: Goumindong
its about 35% more DPS after resistances.
Eh??
Your numbers are pure fantasy.
Originally by: Agmar
-----------------------------------------------
"The North is so ghey that even the NPCs fly ravens." |
Chi Quan
Perkone
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Posted - 2009.03.22 18:54:00 -
[1106]
Originally by: Goumindong
Originally by: Childstar
I have not done the math exactly but considering how the standardly fit RR mega has such gimped resists and HP 74.3em, 66.5thr, 66.5kin, 53.7ex on 20619 HP. Against the abaddon with 81.3em, 75.7thr, 71.9kin, 70.1ex on 24144 HP.
Id say that the blasters getting 30% more damage than lasers comments that have been thrown around are rather exhagerated and the exact figure is actually considerably less.
I have done the math, and yea, its about 35% more DPS after resistances. Hell, i've presented the math for you to go over in this thread.
Its not exaggerated(example target was a low hit point value armageddon). You're wrong.
post the fits Goumindong, come on, after EU/NightXs fit, it can only get better.
----
Ceterum censeo blasters need some tracking love |
Childstar
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Posted - 2009.03.22 19:03:00 -
[1107]
Originally by: Chi Quan
Originally by: Goumindong
Originally by: Childstar
I have not done the math exactly but considering how the standardly fit RR mega has such gimped resists and HP 74.3em, 66.5thr, 66.5kin, 53.7ex on 20619 HP. Against the abaddon with 81.3em, 75.7thr, 71.9kin, 70.1ex on 24144 HP.
Id say that the blasters getting 30% more damage than lasers comments that have been thrown around are rather exhagerated and the exact figure is actually considerably less.
I have done the math, and yea, its about 35% more DPS after resistances. Hell, i've presented the math for you to go over in this thread.
Its not exaggerated(example target was a low hit point value armageddon). You're wrong.
post the fits Goumindong, come on, after EU/NightXs fit, it can only get better.
It will be interesting to see just what the fit is and how many ships actually use it, i mean we know now that the RR mega has a gimped tank due to fitting/cpu constraints and that the baddon has the mother of all resist/hp/ehp tanks.
So it remains to be seen what this 35% tank actually is and what ships actually regularly use it.
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Seishi Maru
M. Corp
Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2009.03.22 19:24:00 -
[1108]
Edited by: Seishi Maru on 22/03/2009 19:25:43
Originally by: Childstar
Edited by: Childstar on 22/03/2009 18:22:20
Originally by: Seishi Maru
The funny part is after all that arguing about the mega vs abadon, the "horrible"typhoon can still defeat both :P
I have never seen a gang of RR phoons or even just a standard gang of them for that matter whats the fit?.
L soalce
3x 800MM II
4 Siege II
TP II
Web best named
Med cap booster II
MWD T1
BCU II
EXP hardener II kin hardener II Thermal Hardener II
Adaptive Nano plating II
DC II
1600 RT
trimarks
Ogres II or sentries II
854 DPS almost all EXPLOSIVE (that makes huge difference)
Armor resists 72.5% 79.3% 76.1% 71.3% on 18382 HP ( effective total HP 104615)
Can fight longer since uses no cap to fire (a minor but real advantage)
The flight time of torps is irrelevant on very close range (and if you are comparing Blaster ships then you are in very close range)
Needs no faction neither implant to fit. And its a CHEAP tier 1 BS. It lacks a point because not all RR BS needs to have a point to keep the primary on place, also the TP helps every other member on gang as well.
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Childstar
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Posted - 2009.03.22 19:42:00 -
[1109]
Edited by: Childstar on 22/03/2009 19:42:37
Originally by: Seishi Maru
Edited by: Seishi Maru on 22/03/2009 19:25:43
Originally by: Childstar
Edited by: Childstar on 22/03/2009 18:22:20
Originally by: Seishi Maru
The funny part is after all that arguing about the mega vs abadon, the "horrible"typhoon can still defeat both :P
I have never seen a gang of RR phoons or even just a standard gang of them for that matter whats the fit?.
L soalce
3x 800MM II
4 Siege II
TP II
Web best named
Med cap booster II
MWD T1
BCU II
EXP hardener II kin hardener II Thermal Hardener II
Adaptive Nano plating II
DC II
1600 RT
trimarks
Ogres II or sentries II
854 DPS almost all EXPLOSIVE (that makes huge difference)
Armor resists 72.5% 79.3% 76.1% 71.3% on 18382 HP ( effective total HP 104615)
Can fight longer since uses no cap to fire (a minor but real advantage)
The flight time of torps is irrelevant on very close range (and if you are comparing Blaster ships then you are in very close range)
Needs no faction neither implant to fit. And its a CHEAP tier 1 BS. It lacks a point because not all RR BS needs to have a point to keep the primary on place, also the TP helps every other member on gang as well.
I doubt a gang of those would beat a RR abaddon gang but considering the RR mega fit has crappy explosive resists (53%) it would dish out mayor hurt on them.
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Seishi Maru
M. Corp
Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2009.03.22 19:51:00 -
[1110]
Originally by: Childstar
Edited by: Childstar on 22/03/2009 19:42:37
Originally by: Seishi Maru
Edited by: Seishi Maru on 22/03/2009 19:25:43
Originally by: Childstar
Edited by: Childstar on 22/03/2009 18:22:20
Originally by: Seishi Maru
The funny part is after all that arguing about the mega vs abadon, the "horrible"typhoon can still defeat both :P
I have never seen a gang of RR phoons or even just a standard gang of them for that matter whats the fit?.
L soalce
3x 800MM II
4 Siege II
TP II
Web best named
Med cap booster II
MWD T1
BCU II
EXP hardener II kin hardener II Thermal Hardener II
Adaptive Nano plating II
DC II
1600 RT
trimarks
Ogres II or sentries II
854 DPS almost all EXPLOSIVE (that makes huge difference)
Armor resists 72.5% 79.3% 76.1% 71.3% on 18382 HP ( effective total HP 104615)
Can fight longer since uses no cap to fire (a minor but real advantage)
The flight time of torps is irrelevant on very close range (and if you are comparing Blaster ships then you are in very close range)
Needs no faction neither implant to fit. And its a CHEAP tier 1 BS. It lacks a point because not all RR BS needs to have a point to keep the primary on place, also the TP helps every other member on gang as well.
I doubt a gang of those would beat a RR abaddon gang but considering the RR mega fit has crappy explosive resists (53%) it would dish out mayor hurt on them.
Maybe yes maybe no. The difference on trackign up close is huge on this case ( remember to compare both ships signatures and speeds). But again its a MAYBE.
But on cost efficiency its still very very good
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Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
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Posted - 2009.03.22 19:57:00 -
[1111]
Edited by: Electric Universe on 22/03/2009 20:05:35
Originally by: Childstar
So tbh fella all you have really shown in this thread is that you do not know how to even fit gallente BS let alone fly them and also that it is you who looks at a single stat (be it resist or dmg type/ammount) and makes wild claims about them and the ability of the ships with them.
Well to be really honest here. I know how to fit a Megathron much better than you think.
What you are thinking on is that you actually had to use a setup on an Abaddon (tier 3) where the Megathron (tier 2) couldn't fit the same type of fitting, that was what you did. You did all to try to find a setup that a Megathron couldn't fit without using 2x cpu implants just to prove that you did know more than me about the ships.
Good try, but better luck next time dude.
Fail attempt to prove ANYTHING.
Originally by: Hell'n
Originally by: Electric Universe AKA NightmareX without any clues about PvP on TQ
Originally by: Hell'n
Originally by: Electric Universe AKA NightmareX without any clues about PvP on TQ
Stuffy stuff
sisi?
Bitter?.
No need to get upset, we understand why you fail, it's OK to cry.
I think it's you that are upset because you got upset by my reply that i was saying bitter? to you. And then had to post about how upset and bitter you was again.
It's also ok to cry now, just let it out.
But yeah, i still have a question for you.
Still bitter?.
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Childstar
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Posted - 2009.03.22 20:19:00 -
[1112]
Originally by: Seishi Maru
Originally by: Childstar
I doubt a gang of those would beat a RR abaddon gang but considering the RR mega fit has crappy explosive resists (53%) it would dish out mayor hurt on them.
Maybe yes maybe no. The difference on trackign up close is huge on this case ( remember to compare both ships signatures and speeds). But again its a MAYBE.
But on cost efficiency its still very very good
Yup, no doubt at all that its a very nice fit that i do like a lot, it has plenty going for it including a choice of dmg type with those torps.
Not only that but it blows yet another hole in gourmies "35% more dmg vs tanks" that blasters are supposed to be getting on tanks in EVE as it has better therm/kin resists than em/therm.
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Seishi Maru
M. Corp
Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2009.03.22 20:35:00 -
[1113]
On other hand.. the megathron handles VERY nicely when you need a LONG range RR ship. The half sniper/half RR gang.
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Childstar
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Posted - 2009.03.22 20:46:00 -
[1114]
Originally by: Seishi Maru
On other hand.. the megathron handles VERY nicely when you need a LONG range RR ship. The half sniper/half RR gang.
The only time i have used RR and snipers at the same time was when i spent a bit of time killing ships at POS's using jump bridges ect and we used full logistic ships for that.
Snipers to stay out of range of the web/point batteries on the POS and logistics to tank the rather nasty DMG from the POS guns.
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Yakov Draken
Minmatar
Tides Of War
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Posted - 2009.03.22 20:48:00 -
[1115]
Typhoon is a great RR BS but I don't like that Typhoon fit at all. I see no good reason to fit one RR over 2 on a Phoon. In RR BS fights I've been in the side with 2xRR's per BS handily beats the side with 1xRR per BS all else being roughly equal. Also large AC's are pretty naff so you are probably better fitting a couple of RR's, a couple of neuts, and 4 T2 siege launchers.
Originally by: Cohkka
Originally by: Yakov Draken
Personally I like Mega's with a very different setup to the 3xMFS but regardless I think it is very silly to say an Abaddon is simply better than a Mega when the ships are so different in their strengths. "My ship is better - it is just better!" PvP comes in many styles and flavors in Eve and ships value changes according to usage.
This is very true, and this is the exact reason for a thread like this. Blasters work good in their intended role, but how many people do perform in this role? Their role of dealing as much damage as possible only pays of when the target has any significant tank and it's speed, distance and the size of the gang works in your favor. You're very limited in the possible tasks you can perform well and you have to sacrifice your surviveability and flexability for this. For me personally, blasters have little value appart from the odd "lets have some fun and giggles and crash our ships into the next gang we come across".
Noooooooooo! Please don't aggree with me then argue the opposite.
I dunno why so many people can't figure this out:
- Remote reps are short range
- Blasters are short range
- RR fights are short range
- Blasters rock in RR fights
- RR BS are pretty damn pwn so blasters rock.
If you fought regularily in RR BS gangs this would be obvious.
Blasters are not an odd, gimicky weapon, for use on occassion, they are a brutal face pwnage system that combo's with one of the most powerful tactics in the game - remote repping.
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Seishi Maru
M. Corp
Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2009.03.22 20:50:00 -
[1116]
Originally by: Childstar
Edited by: Childstar on 22/03/2009 20:46:41
Originally by: Seishi Maru
On other hand.. the megathron handles VERY nicely when you need a LONG range RR ship. The half sniper/half RR gang.
The only time i have used RR and snipers at the same time was when i spent a bit of time killing ships at POS's that were using jump bridges ect and we used full logistic ships for that.
Snipers to stay out of range of the web/point batteries on the POS and logistics to tank the rather nasty DMG from the POS guns.
I also dislike mixed Sniper RR ships. But some FC demand them and curse the whole family of anyone in their fleet that doe snot use their "superior" tactics (HI Eddz!)
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Childstar
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Posted - 2009.03.22 21:01:00 -
[1117]
Originally by: Yakov Draken
I dunno why so many people can't figure this out:
A- Remote reps are short range
B- Blasters are short range
C- RR fights are short range
D- Blasters rock in RR fights
E- RR BS are pretty damn pwn so blasters rock.
Ok now i agreed with you for A and B, but for C i kinda agree but not that close range means at blasters 4.5km optimal or even near it and as such D is not acurate when you consider the RR mega fit and its limited range of good damage.
And E makes no sense at all and is not part of any logical progression i can even think of.
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Seishi Maru
M. Corp
Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2009.03.22 21:25:00 -
[1118]
On the subject... i think is important to discover if the mega looses because its hard to fit or whatever else.
So would like to bring up to be compared a Dominix
Solace
4 Ion II
1 Electron II
1 MWD
1 ECCM
1 Stasis
1 disruptor
1 Med cap booster
2 1600 RT
1 DC II
armor/kin and thermic T2 hardeners
1 EANM II
Trimarks
Drones you pretty much have an idea :P
824 dps quite short range (but not so much percentage as the mega)
27777 armor with 68.1 80.5 80.5 73.1 resists
Total HP 145205
Want to point only that focusing in a single pair of ships might get to nowhere. Sometimes looking at similar ships might help to find out where the real problem lies.
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Yakov Draken
Minmatar
Tides Of War
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Posted - 2009.03.22 21:39:00 -
[1119]
Originally by: Childstar
Edited by: Childstar on 22/03/2009 21:11:45
Originally by: Yakov Draken
I dunno why so many people can't figure this out:
A- Remote reps are short range
B- Blasters are short range
C- RR fights are short range
D- Blasters rock in RR fights
E- RR BS are pretty damn pwn so blasters rock.
Ok now i agreed with you for A and B, but for C i kinda agree a little, but not that close range means at blasters 4.5km optimal or even near it and as such D is not acurate when you consider the RR mega fit and its limited range of good damage along with its rather weak tank compared to the other races available BS RR fits.
And E makes no sense at all and is not part of any logical progression i can even think of.
RR gangs sit close together and are the easisest target to get close to in the game. Really the range of RR's should answer this but seeing as it doesn't:
1. RR BS gang sitting on gate - another RR BS gang warps in to fight it and they both start shooting. People are between 0-6k's apart and the main issue is missing by being to close.
2. RR BS gang jumps through gate to attack RR BS gang on gate. Gang jumping in approaches gate to get close enough for their circle jerk and short range pwnage ensues.
3. RR BS gang undocks and opens up on RR BS gang sitting on undock and close range pwnage ensues.
These scenario's happen a lot in real combats - this is not me making up examples but describing how we fight. RR ships like sitting on gates/stations as it means they can de-aggro and jump out/dock up plus it is the rally point for getting everyone close for the RR's.
Blasters even do good damage with Null out to mid ranges.
Btw Mega's don't have weak tanks compared to other RR BS's. They have roughtly the same as most - sometimes weaker, sometimes better, depending on setup.
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Childstar
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Posted - 2009.03.22 22:20:00 -
[1120]
Edited by: Childstar on 22/03/2009 22:26:21
Originally by: Yakov Draken
RR gangs sit close together and are the easisest target to get close to in the game. Really the range of RR's should answer this but seeing as it doesn't:
The range of RR's means a RR gang needs to be close together to their own members not the hostile ships.
Originally by: Yakov Draken
1. RR BS gang sitting on gate - another RR BS gang warps in to fight it and they both start shooting. People are between 0-6k's apart and the main issue is missing by being to close.
Id say being 0-6km apart is a bit of a streach when both gangs have a 8km available range they can use from the ship they are repping, but in all honesty it is likely that they are going to be reasonably close together if they are both flying a mixed gang.
Originally by: Yakov Draken
2. RR BS gang jumps through gate to attack RR BS gang on gate. Gang jumping in approaches gate to get close enough for their circle jerk and short range pwnage ensues.
The gate is a good marker to use to gather together for RR but scouting on both sides would allow those jumping in and those on the gate to both attempt to manouver to a position that suited their gangs make up and range.
Originally by: Yakov Draken
3. RR BS gang undocks and opens up on RR BS gang sitting on undock and close range pwnage ensues.
The undocking ships i agree have no choice where they start the engagment but then the primary targets the ships outside the station will target are those with the easiest tank to break, and those camping the station can be sitting off at range quite easily or at the very least the laser ships can.
Originally by: Yakov Draken
These scenario's happen a lot in real combats - this is not me making up examples but describing how we fight. RR ships like sitting on gates/stations as it means they can de-aggro and jump out/dock up plus it is the rally point for getting everyone close for the RR's.
I agree these types of fights happen a lot i disagree with your assertion of the definitive ranges involved, a RR gang sitting on a gate in a stationary clump can naturally select the targets that jump in and break cloak closest to it while also continuing to target the closest ship to it (megas needing to burn close to do their higher dmg being the naturally favored targets).
While the laser ships jumping in can approach the gate lock the primary and ship they need to RR without the need to burn closer than 8 km from the ship they need to rep.
The megas outside the station also need to sit in a position that is around or within 4.5km of the undock/lockable point, while again the laser ships can sit 8km beyond the megas position for RR duty while still able to do their full damage.
Originally by: Yakov Draken
Btw Mega's don't have weak tanks compared to other RR BS's. They have roughtly the same as most - sometimes weaker, sometimes better, depending on setup.
From ppls fits so far and the races shown (mini, gallente, amarr) the megathron has the worst time with fittings and has the poorest resists and ehp the domi's tank was ok, in fact very good but not much use for low sec as gate guns chew up drones.
The problem with the mega fit is if you trade up for even a reasonable tank you reduce its dmg and visa versa.
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Seishi Maru
M. Corp
Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2009.03.22 22:52:00 -
[1121]
But the tempest still needs more love than the mega :P
Mega could get like 15 more CPU base that would make a lot of difference.
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Childstar
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Posted - 2009.03.22 23:07:00 -
[1122]
Edited by: Childstar on 22/03/2009 23:14:50
Originally by: Seishi Maru
On the subject... i think is important to discover if the mega looses because its hard to fit or whatever else.
So would like to bring up to be compared a Dominix
DOMI FIT.
Want to point only that focusing in a single pair of ships might get to nowhere. Sometimes looking at similar ships might help to find out where the real problem lies.
Its a nice tank thats certain but then not fitting dmg mods and with 7 low slots available you gotta expect that. 450 thermal dmg out to 30km and a max of 824 at 3.8km is not great DMG by a long chalk even compared to lasers.
A bit useless for pirate gate camping in low sec for obvious reasons but thats the only major down side to the fit.
PS: Oh and the mega fails in RR because if it ups its tank it gimps its dmg and if it ups its dmg it gimps its tank and its the ship that needs to spend most of its life in every shiup in the hostile gangs optimal range.
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Seishi Maru
M. Corp
Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2009.03.22 23:15:00 -
[1123]
I would not be THAT much worried about massive damage on a RR gang. IN fact more likely would drop that electron for a second RR. My experience on RR gangs is that surviving the volley from enemy combined with effective RR (resists, ECCM and the ammount of reps in gang) in the long run is the decisive factor.
With 2 RR on each dominix of that type a gang of 5 WILL wipe the floor with the very ganky RR megatrons. Also is very resilent to falcons both due to drones AND ECCM. Real fights have much more variables than 5 vs 5 encounters of gangs with homogeneous ships and setups :P
And that is also the main reason why the ammar BS have an advantage right now on RR gangs. The range allows it to cover more scenarios.
I also do not pirate so my fits never take that role into account.
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Childstar
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Posted - 2009.03.22 23:25:00 -
[1124]
Edited by: Childstar on 22/03/2009 23:24:47
Originally by: Seishi Maru
I would not be THAT much worried about massive damage on a RR gang. IN fact more likely would drop that electron for a second RR. My experience on RR gangs is that surviving the volley from enemy combined with effective RR (resists, ECCM and the ammount of reps in gang) in the long run is the decisive factor.
With 2 RR on each dominix of that type a gang of 5 WILL wipe the floor with the very ganky RR megatrons. Also is very resilent to falcons both due to drones AND ECCM. Real fights have much more variables than 5 vs 5 encounters of gangs with homogeneous ships and setups :P
I agree with most if not all of this and im not to concerned about massive DMG either thats why i prefer the abaddon RR fit.
Originally by: Seishi Maru
And that is also the main reason why the ammar BS have an advantage right now on RR gangs. The range allows it to cover more scenarios.
1011 raw dps out to 15km and 849 out to 45km with a very nice tank makes it a very useable ship.
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Goumindong
Amarr
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.03.22 23:59:00 -
[1125]
Originally by: Chi Quan
post the fits Goumindong, come on, after EU/NightXs fit, it can only get better.
I am sorry, the "fit"? You made a statement about a weapon, i corrected the statement about the weapon.
But you're going to be looking at something like so:
7x neutron
mwd
web,
scram
med inj
1600 x 2
eanm/anp x 2
dc II
2x MFS
Or a hyperion
8x neutron
mwd,
med injec
web,
scram
wildcard
1600
eanm x 2
dcII
2x MFS
If you want RR on those they can be supplied easily enough so long as you're looking at an equivalent amount of RR on your other ship.
That being said, the RR ship you probably want instead of either of them is the Dominix(as has been mentioned many times in this thread before the last page)
Originally by: Childstar
The question is answered, now if it is not answered in the way you want it to be answered or if the answer is just not to your liking i suggest you get over it or ask better and more clear question.
Or just grow a pair and make whatever statment or point you think your question should provoke.
No, it was not answered. At least not by you. I've explained the reasoning behind this in this thread already. Go back and read it, you'll find it.
The question is "how much EHP do you gain when you lose that DPS" the answer is "more EHP than you gain back in DPS" and that is bad because "DPS is just as valuable as EHP"
The reason for asking a question is that straight out telling you doesn't seem to get through. You need to go through the logical process for yourself.
Quote:
Fine the effect of the resists on the mega is that the mega tanks poorly and especially against explosive when compared to the abbadons resists that give great coverage against all.
Which race has the strongest and which race has the weakest racial resistance bonus?
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Yakov Draken
Minmatar
Tides Of War
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Posted - 2009.03.23 00:27:00 -
[1126]
Originally by: Childstar
Edited by: Childstar on 22/03/2009 22:33:01
Originally by: Yakov Draken
RR gangs sit close together and are the easisest target to get close to in the game. Really the range of RR's should answer this but seeing as it doesn't:
The range of RR's means a RR gang needs to be within 8km of their own members not the hostile ships and that gives a lot of room to play with against a megas 4.5km sweet spot.
So your argument boils down to having discovered a sweet spot for Abaddons to operate at about 8k outclassing the Mega's 4.5 optimal? This really isn't practical. The Abaddon has to be in remote rep range of its' whole gang not just the primary, same with the other side. End result is a big cluster**** nine times out of ten.
Sure you can slowboat out to 8k (MWDing will be too uncontrollable and you may well be scrambled) but then you may be 16k from a mate who slowboated out the other direction. If you all slowboated together then we just slowboat out to half way between your group and the primary - 4k's to each - and then bump the primary outside your rep range. Etc, etc, etc. We can theorize forever but in practice trying to do ballet in an RR fight is going to lead to fail 9 times out of 10 as ships that are webbed and scrambled lose contact with each other. In practice it pays to stay tight and pwn face. Maybe do some synchronised swimming when the opportunity allows - ballet no.
Btw 1 RR on an Abaddon is cute but really - 1 RR? What are you going to save with that?
Originally by: Childstar
[The problem with the mega fit is if you trade up for even a reasonable tank you reduce its dmg and visa versa and for a ship that spends most of its time in everybody elses optimal and as a big candidate for being primary target (even in your scenarios) it needs some love.
The Mega can get a really nice gank/tank balence with two magstabs, 2 plates - stick two RR's on if you want to contribute significantly to remote repping and it is still doing over 1000dps. Mega is expensive to get the best out of so suits corps with high efficiencies and deep pockets.
I'm part way through cross-training to Gallente as I have largely finished Matar. The Mega was the single biggest reason for me to begin seriously crosstraining to Gallente. I thought hard about Caldari for the Raven and Drake for pirate "I'm a carebear" lolz and the abiltiy to reach out and touch those pesky recons - I will train for the Drake/Raven at some stage. I have an Amarr alt with all the tasty stuff so no need to go their.
Ooh and obligatory Typhoon rocks - Tempest sucks. Fix large AC's - two damage bonus's + two gyro's on a Tempest = poor damage and crap tank. Dunno how people can complain about the Mega and Blasters while the Tempest exists and large AC's make a joke of it.
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Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
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Posted - 2009.03.23 00:45:00 -
[1127]
Originally by: Yakov Draken
Originally by: Childstar
Edited by: Childstar on 22/03/2009 22:33:01
Originally by: Yakov Draken
RR gangs sit close together and are the easisest target to get close to in the game. Really the range of RR's should answer this but seeing as it doesn't:
The range of RR's means a RR gang needs to be within 8km of their own members not the hostile ships and that gives a lot of room to play with against a megas 4.5km sweet spot.
So your argument boils down to having discovered a sweet spot for Abaddons to operate at about 8k outclassing the Mega's 4.5 optimal? This really isn't practical. The Abaddon has to be in remote rep range of its' whole gang not just the primary, same with the other side. End result is a big cluster**** nine times out of ten.
Sure you can slowboat out to 8k (MWDing will be too uncontrollable and you may well be scrambled) but then you may be 16k from a mate who slowboated out the other direction. If you all slowboated together then we just slowboat out to half way between your group and the primary - 4k's to each - and then bump the primary outside your rep range. Etc, etc, etc. We can theorize forever but in practice trying to do ballet in an RR fight is going to lead to fail 9 times out of 10 as ships that are webbed and scrambled lose contact with each other. In practice it pays to stay tight and pwn face. Maybe do some synchronised swimming when the opportunity allows - ballet no.
Btw 1 RR on an Abaddon is cute but really - 1 RR? What are you going to save with that?
Originally by: Childstar
[The problem with the mega fit is if you trade up for even a reasonable tank you reduce its dmg and visa versa and for a ship that spends most of its time in everybody elses optimal and as a big candidate for being primary target (even in your scenarios) it needs some love.
The Mega can get a really nice gank/tank balence with two magstabs, 2 plates - stick two RR's on if you want to contribute significantly to remote repping and it is still doing over 1000dps. Mega is expensive to get the best out of so suits corps with high efficiencies and deep pockets.
I'm part way through cross-training to Gallente as I have largely finished Matar. The Mega was the single biggest reason for me to begin seriously crosstraining to Gallente. I thought hard about Caldari for the Raven and Drake for pirate "I'm a carebear" lolz and the abiltiy to reach out and touch those pesky recons - I will train for the Drake/Raven at some stage. I have an Amarr alt with all the tasty stuff so no need to go their.
This^^
And just to add why some of the alts in here and why some others in here are terribly wrong.
Watch the 2 movies here in this link: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1030866
It's a bit ganky movie, but hold on a sec here, i though that the Large Blasters and Blaster Megas was dead. This movie shows that Blaster Megas are FAR from dead.
Also this movie shows that Blasters are used nowdays: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1028983
And epic LOL. A Scorpion is owning an Abaddon in the last movie there. HAHAHAHAH. The guy that was flying that Scorp even said that he had a joke fit on the Scorp to.
Seriously guys, stop lying that Blaster Megas isn't used today.
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Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Blackguard Coalition
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Posted - 2009.03.23 01:01:00 -
[1128]
Originally by: Yakov Draken
In practice it pays to stay tight and pwn face. Maybe do some synchronised swimming when the opportunity allows - ballet no.
This. :)
Quote:
Btw 1 RR on an Abaddon is cute but really - 1 RR? What are you going to save with that?
Well if enough of you are there, it can be ok. I only fit 1 RR to the Mega.
Quote:
The Mega can get a really nice gank/tank balence with two magstabs, 2 plates - stick two RR's on if you want to contribute significantly to remote repping and it is still doing over 1000dps. Mega is expensive to get the best out of so suits corps with high efficiencies and deep pockets.
I'm not a fan of the 2 plate mega - it handles like a pig and you're always the last one to the action. Just me though. ;-)
Quote:
Ooh and obligatory Typhoon rocks - Tempest sucks. Fix large AC's - two damage bonus's + two gyro's on a Tempest = poor damage and crap tank. Dunno how people can complain about the Mega and Blasters while the Tempest exists and large AC's make a joke of it.
Heh, yeah... its true. A friend of mine came over last week and he tried out (on my computer) what the Domi, Mega, and Tempest were like and he was like... "why the **** does the tempest suck so bad". Which is sad, because it was a great pest fit, and the pest pilot has better pest skills than Liang has domi skills.
Anyway. I think we should rename this thread from 'Should I give up on blasters' to 'Should I give up on this thread'.
-Liang
--
Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
www.kwikdeath.org |
The Djego
Minmatar
merovinger inc
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Posted - 2009.03.23 01:08:00 -
[1129]
Originally by: Yakov Draken
The Mega can get a really nice gank/tank balence with two magstabs, 2 plates - stick two RR's on if you want to contribute significantly to remote repping and it is still doing over 1000dps. Mega is expensive to get the best out of so suits corps with high efficiencies and deep pockets.
I'm part way through cross-training to Gallente as I have largely finished Matar. The Mega was the single biggest reason for me to begin seriously crosstraining to Gallente. I thought hard about Caldari for the Raven and Drake for pirate "I'm a carebear" lolz and the abiltiy to reach out and touch those pesky recons - I will train for the Drake/Raven at some stage. I have an Amarr alt with all the tasty stuff so no need to go their.
Ooh and obligatory Typhoon rocks - Tempest sucks. Fix large AC's - two damage bonus's + two gyro's on a Tempest = poor damage and crap tank. Dunno how people can complain about the Mega and Blasters while the Tempest exists and large AC's make a joke of it.
Im crosstraining Mini atm, have maxed the Mega(including some rediculus supports like Theremodynamics 5 or Armor Rigging 5, all Compensations to 5, Large Blaster Spec 5, any Gunnery Skill maxed etc.) and Gallente iteself(pereay mutch).
The Mega atm isn¦t what it was before QR(im not talking about RR gangs where preaty mutch any BS works), it is preaty mutch a sorry excuse of a Blaster BS compared to his pre Revelation incernation. Im talking about a Blaster BS people feared within his range for a reason. My Mega does the job with a 100-200 M fitting and Implants today, it mostly fails without this, the 1.25k EFT DPS number you get form a gank fitted common Mega fails hard this days against ships with mutch less gank(covering range+EHP disadvantage making you the underdog from the start). Its the same deal like the Deimost and the Astarte, you have the highest DPS possible but you still fail because you don¦t have the DPS to win.
Tempest sucks to for even longer, anyone know this, beside one fancy sissi warrior in this Thread.
----
Nerf Tank - Boost Gank!
Originally by: Amantus
Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
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The Djego
Minmatar
merovinger inc
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Posted - 2009.03.23 01:11:00 -
[1130]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Anyway. I think we should rename this thread from 'Should I give up on blasters' to 'Should I give up on this thread'.
-Liang
This.
----
Nerf Tank - Boost Gank!
Originally by: Amantus
Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
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Polinus
Caldari
State War Academy
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Posted - 2009.03.23 01:20:00 -
[1131]
Originally by: Electric Universe
Also this movie shows that Blasters are used nowdays: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1028983
And epic LOL. A Scorpion is owning an Abaddon in the last movie there. HAHAHAHAH. The guy that was flying that Scorp even said that he had a joke fit on the Scorp to.
Seriously guys, stop lying that Blaster Megas isn't used today.
do you realise there is a geddon helping that mega on those kills? :P
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Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
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Posted - 2009.03.23 01:23:00 -
[1132]
Originally by: Polinus
Originally by: Electric Universe
Also this movie shows that Blasters are used nowdays: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1028983
And epic LOL. A Scorpion is owning an Abaddon in the last movie there. HAHAHAHAH. The guy that was flying that Scorp even said that he had a joke fit on the Scorp to.
Seriously guys, stop lying that Blaster Megas isn't used today.
do you realise there is a geddon helping that mega on those kills? :P
You do realize what my reply was all about?.
Did i ask about if there was any geddons or Abaddons there?, no. I said it was a proof that Blaster Megas are used alot in empire and low sec. And then gave some videos that shows it.
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Yakov Draken
Minmatar
Tides Of War
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Posted - 2009.03.23 02:17:00 -
[1133]
Originally by: The Djego
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Anyway. I think we should rename this thread from 'Should I give up on blasters' to 'Should I give up on this thread'.
-Liang
This.
Agreed. Time for the fix Large AC's save the Tempest mega thread. For too long has this injustice gone on - to the keyboards!
NighmareX please don't mess up our Tempest threads. Take the sword out of your back and stop shooting yourself in the foot!
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Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
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Posted - 2009.03.23 03:32:00 -
[1134]
Edited by: Electric Universe on 23/03/2009 03:34:59
Originally by: Yakov Draken
Originally by: The Djego
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Anyway. I think we should rename this thread from 'Should I give up on blasters' to 'Should I give up on this thread'.
-Liang
This.
Agreed. Time for the fix Large AC's save the Tempest mega thread. For too long has this injustice gone on - to the keyboards!
NighmareX please don't mess up our Tempest threads. Take the sword out of your back and stop shooting yourself in the foot!
I though that NightmareX haven't posted here for over 7 days now.
He still have 6 days left of his forum ban. So he can't post.
But still, my points about the ship and the Tempest is still valid.
It was just a defense of the lies that a Tempest sucks. A Tempest is good when you can find out how to use the ship like it's designed for. It's the same for every ships, if you use the ships right and use them for what they are designed to do, then they will work good no matter what.
And as long your experienced good enough.
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Hell'n
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Posted - 2009.03.23 09:16:00 -
[1135]
Originally by: Electric Universe
I think it's you that are upset because you got upset by my reply that i was saying bitter? to you. And then had to post about how upset and bitter you was again.
Was that sentence in English, or upset jibberish?
Originally by: Electric Universe
Still bitter?.
I'm not the sisi warrior, so why would I be bitter about you failing?
Keep biting, it's funny.
I think NightmareX needs a ladder, that hole he's in is pretty deep. Strange thing is, he keeps digging.
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Seishi Maru
M. Corp
Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2009.03.23 10:10:00 -
[1136]
Want proof that tempest need boost?
It has 6 turrets with 2 damage bonus. So it shoudl be a very good candidate for a RR gagn with 2 RR required? Wrong...
You can fit a megatron with exactly same setup (minus 1 ECCM) and still fit an extra 1600 RT plate. AND deal more damage.. WAY more damage even after drop one of your turrets.
Tempest main issue comes from a double nerf to compensate its good double damage bonus. It got a double damage bonus. Then CCp tough.. hey let give him only 6 turrets to compensate. And also lets remove 1 low slot so he cannot fit so many damage mods and a tank at same time. Also temepst was enrfed at the ECM nerf.. and was nerfed at the NOS nerf....
Tempest needs some love. It is simply outclassed by every other battleship except on 1v1 (as nightmare will point a thousand times) but that type of combat is almost a legend when compared to the common combat scenario.
Give it 125/125 drone bay /bandwidth.... AC problemss solved. Give arties a 50% larger clip and make Track computer and tracking enhancers boost falloff. Arties problem solved.
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Childstar
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Posted - 2009.03.23 10:14:00 -
[1137]
Originally by: Goumindong
I am sorry, the "fit"? You made a statement about a weapon, i corrected the statement about the weapon.
We have already seen nightmareX/electrics way of posting stats about weapons and abilities that the ships cannot reasonably fit and in some casses even stand a chance in hell of fitting, so weapons and available fits go hand in hand.
Originally by: Goumindong
Gourmies RRmega/mega fit...has:
73.4, 65.5, 65.5, 52.2 for 115,436 EHP.
832 DPS at 4.5KM + 300 dps from garde T2.
Abaddon fit with RR.
81, 75.7, 71.9, 70.1 for 134,371 EHP.
802 DPS at 15km + 180 dps from garde T2.
or
76.1, 68.9, 64.1, 61.7 with 138,344 EHP.
802 DPS at 15km + 180 dps from garde T2.
Originally by: Goumindong
Gourmies RR hyperion fit...
76.6, 69.6, 69.6, 58 for 113,481 HP.
950 DPS at 4.5km + 240 dps from garde T2.
Both GALLENTE BS fits use a med sized cap injector.
Abaddon fit with 8 MP T2.
81, 75.7, 71.9, 70.1 for 134,371 EHP.
916 DPS at 15km + 180 dps from garde T2.
or
76.1, 68.9, 64.1, 61.7 with 138,344 EHP.
916 DPS at 15km + 180 dps from garde T2.
Now considering that a lot of preaching has been going on about "omni tanks" and "35% moar DMG from blasters" ect ect a LOT of people have been posts RR and other fits on this thread.
And it is plain to see that a lot of the fits do not have this mythical "35% omni tank" and a lot of the tanks people use in fact have higher resists to thermal and kinetic damage than they do EM, the phoon and domi fits are prime examples of this.
Not only that but the fitting issues on the mega and hyperion also force them to use 2 DMG mods instead of three that further reduces its damage relative to lasers ect and even after sacrificing that DMG mod it still has very large holes in its tank (52.2% explosive resist is pitiful tbh).
So we have 2 ships that have considerably weaker tanks than their peers that are doing marginally more RAW dmg at VASTLY smaller ranges and those DMG types are not the " better choice" as ppl have been led to believe but are in fact in a lot of casses against regularly used ships either no benifit at all or actually the worse to use.
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Childstar
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Posted - 2009.03.23 10:16:00 -
[1138]
Originally by: Hell'n
I'm not the sisi warrior, so why would I be bitter about you failing?
Keep biting, it's funny.
I think NightmareX needs a ladder, that hole he's in is pretty deep. Strange thing is, he keeps digging.
A liar caught is still a liar bud....
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Childstar
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Posted - 2009.03.23 10:42:00 -
[1139]
Originally by: Seishi Maru
Want proof that tempest need boost?
It has 6 turrets with 2 damage bonus. So it shoudl be a very good candidate for a RR gagn with 2 RR required? Wrong...
Nope it poor as a RR gang ship, your phoon fit is better and im trying to get a eanm on it some how but its a little to tight..
Originally by: Seishi Maru
You can fit a megatron with exactly same setup (minus 1 ECCM) and still fit an extra 1600 RT plate. AND deal more damage.. WAY more damage even after drop one of your turrets.
The best i got out of the pest is 931dps with yuck resists and 99,006 EHP.
Originally by: Seishi Maru
Give it 125/125 drone bay /bandwidth.... AC problemss solved. Give arties a 50% larger clip and make Track computer and tracking enhancers boost falloff. Arties problem solved.
The drone bay idea is ok, the ammo clip for arties im not sure about and i think that arties need help in the range department but changing comps ect so drastically with effect the oither sniper ships so i think another idea may be needed for that.
But just cos i think the solution for a few of those problems is not good does not mean i think that a solution is not needed as it most certainly is.
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Seishi Maru
M. Corp
Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2009.03.23 11:02:00 -
[1140]
Well truth be told. While the EANM + DC tank sis not in ALL scenarios. It is very common and you could say about half of the ships will be fitted like that giving larger resists against EM and thermal. But a GOOD setup on a RR gag should have better resists than that and have at least the explosive hole covered (on gallente ships for example).
Blasters do need some love, AC need love, arties need love. Neither need huge love. Just a tiny bit and they become competitive against torps, pulses,beams, rails etc....
The combat in eve changed a lot since revelations and trinity. The introduction of 24 km points, the introduction of overheating the increase in HP and the increase in gang sizes changed the scenario where blasters were the best option. At some time screwed the scenario where AC worked great also.
Ammar ships are clearly made thinking on fleet combat whiel gallente and minmatar on solo combat. Fact is most fights are in groups, not solo . Not saying that blasters or AC are useless. They are NOT! they are just a bit underpowered right now.
But please CCp touch them GENTLY no sledgehammer balances please ;(
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MMXMMX
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2009.03.23 11:07:00 -
[1141]
Yes
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Seishi Maru
M. Corp
Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2009.03.23 11:08:00 -
[1142]
Edited by: Seishi Maru on 23/03/2009 11:14:39
Edited by: Seishi Maru on 23/03/2009 11:12:06
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: Seishi Maru
Want proof that tempest need boost?
It has 6 turrets with 2 damage bonus. So it shoudl be a very good candidate for a RR gagn with 2 RR required? Wrong...
Nope it poor as a RR gang ship, your phoon fit is better and im trying to get a eanm on it some how but its a little to tight..
Originally by: Seishi Maru
You can fit a megatron with exactly same setup (minus 1 ECCM) and still fit an extra 1600 RT plate. AND deal more damage.. WAY more damage even after drop one of your turrets.
The best i got out of the pest is 931dps with yuck resists and 99,006 EHP.
Originally by: Seishi Maru
Give it 125/125 drone bay /bandwidth.... AC problemss solved. Give arties a 50% larger clip and make Track computer and tracking enhancers boost falloff. Arties problem solved.
The drone bay idea is ok, the ammo clip for arties im not sure about and i think that arties need help in the range department but changing comps ect so drastically with effect the oither sniper ships so i think another idea may be needed for that.
But just cos i think the solution for a few of those problems is not good does not mean i think that a solution is not needed as it most certainly is.
giving track enhancers and track computers a bonus to falloff would help a lot the range issues. If bonus is same as the range one. The falloff on a 2 range modules tempest would go to 61 km alongside 144 km range. or 152/66.7 on a 3 range module ship.
Still inferior. But 20 km extra falloff is not negligible. Means I can do more than half my dps at 200 km, as much as the mega.
The clip size currently is the major issue with arties IMHO. Since it drops the effective damage over time to very very low levels.
If you want to make eve population rejoice and send CCP free beer, then you could apply the "increase drastically alpha and adjust ROF to keep same DPS).
The typhoon you can get an EANM easy... Change DC II for the best named and the target painter for best named and drop 800mm into dual 650mm... just don't know if its worth.
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Childstar
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Posted - 2009.03.23 11:30:00 -
[1143]
Originally by: Seishi Maru
Well truth be told. While the EANM + DC tank sis not in ALL scenarios. It is very common and you could say about half of the ships will be fitted like that giving larger resists against EM and thermal. But a GOOD setup on a RR gag should have better resists than that and have at least the explosive hole covered (on gallente ships for example).
Its a tank that CAN be fitted on certain ships but the main point is that the mega/RRmega fit has to remaove a dmg mod to do so effectivly and so does the hyperion, the domi and phoon have higher thermal and kinetic resists.
Also the fact that for most of the ppl like gourmie and nightmareX/electric the "35%" banner they have been waving involved blasters doing much higher raw dmg than they are actually capable of doing with the available fits they have compared to simularly fitted lasers.
So we have less than stated raw gun dps coupled with a weaker all around tank and rather less ships around that are fitting the tank that they are supposed to be the "prefered system" to use against.
Originally by: Seishi Maru
Blasters do need some love, AC need love, arties need love. Neither need huge love. Just a tiny bit and they become competitive against torps, pulses,beams, rails etc....
Nobody is asking for big changes just fixes.
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Childstar
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Posted - 2009.03.23 11:34:00 -
[1144]
Originally by: Seishi Maru
The typhoon you can get an EANM easy... Change DC II for the best named and the target painter for best named and drop 800mm into dual 650mm... just don't know if its worth.
I was trying to do it with the best named/low cpu mid slot stuff and a low isk cpu implant ect, but not changing the the DCU2 or gun as it defeats the perpose a bit.
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Seishi Maru
M. Corp
Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2009.03.23 11:47:00 -
[1145]
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: Seishi Maru
The typhoon you can get an EANM easy... Change DC II for the best named and the target painter for best named and drop 800mm into dual 650mm... just don't know if its worth.
I was trying to do it with the best named/low cpu mid slot stuff and a low isk cpu implant ect, but not changing the the DCU2 or gun as it defeats the perpose a bit.
Another option 4 AC 3 siege . Change BCU per Gyro II. Lots of free cpu now. Loose like 30 dps to get 5k more effective HP.
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Childstar
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Posted - 2009.03.23 11:59:00 -
[1146]
Edited by: Childstar on 23/03/2009 12:01:08
Originally by: Seishi Maru
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: Seishi Maru
The typhoon you can get an EANM easy... Change DC II for the best named and the target painter for best named and drop 800mm into dual 650mm... just don't know if its worth.
I was trying to do it with the best named/low cpu mid slot stuff and a low isk cpu implant ect, but not changing the the DCU2 or gun as it defeats the perpose a bit.
Another option 4 AC 3 siege . Change BCU per Gyro II. Lots of free cpu now. Loose like 30 dps to get 5k more effective HP.
Im not sure i think thats the better fit and especially considering the siege have a full choice of dmg types vs targets and that little that 30 eft dps will easily be accounted for and overcome by loading the perfect dmg type before the battle.
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Goumindong
Amarr
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.03.23 12:02:00 -
[1147]
Originally by: Childstar
We have already seen nightmareX/electrics way of posting stats about weapons and abilities that the ships cannot reasonably fit and in some casses even stand a chance in hell of fitting, so weapons and available fits go hand in hand.
Fair enough, strange you're ignoring your "fits" though
Quote:
Abaddon fit with RR.
81, 75.7, 71.9, 70.1 for 134,371 EHP.
802 DPS at 15km + 180 dps from garde T2.
I neither understand what you're trying to say nor understand what you did to my fits
Also, according to your numbers before resistanecs the mega has 15% more DPS and the abaddons 16% more DPS. Which means that after resistances, the homogeneous mega gang will wipe the floor with your baddons. Resistance has a roughly 15% spread towards blasters and away from lasaers... 1.15 x 1.15=1.3225. Irony, thy name is Childstar.
Quote:
Both GALLENTE BS fits use a med sized cap injector.
No, they can both fit larges when RRing. They only are going to fit
Quote:
And it is plain to see that a lot of the fits do not have this mythical "35% omni tank" and a lot of the tanks people use in fact have higher resists to thermal and kinetic damage than they do EM, the phoon and domi fits are prime examples of this.
Non-omni tanks are in all ways inefficient. You cannot account for people being stupid, if you do then you will not achieve balance as the people who are intelligent will exploit the situation created.
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Seishi Maru
M. Corp
Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2009.03.23 12:11:00 -
[1148]
Originally by: Goumindong
Originally by: Childstar
We have already seen nightmareX/electrics way of posting stats about weapons and abilities that the ships cannot reasonably fit and in some casses even stand a chance in hell of fitting, so weapons and available fits go hand in hand.
Fair enough, strange you're ignoring your "fits" though
Quote:
Abaddon fit with RR.
81, 75.7, 71.9, 70.1 for 134,371 EHP.
802 DPS at 15km + 180 dps from garde T2.
I neither understand what you're trying to say nor understand what you did to my fits
Also, according to your numbers before resistanecs the mega has 15% more DPS and the abaddons 16% more DPS. Which means that after resistances, the homogeneous mega gang will wipe the floor with your baddons. Resistance has a roughly 15% spread towards blasters and away from lasaers... 1.15 x 1.15=1.3225. Irony, thy name is Childstar.
Quote:
Both GALLENTE BS fits use a med sized cap injector.
No, they can both fit larges when RRing. They only are going to fit
Quote:
And it is plain to see that a lot of the fits do not have this mythical "35% omni tank" and a lot of the tanks people use in fact have higher resists to thermal and kinetic damage than they do EM, the phoon and domi fits are prime examples of this.
Non-omni tanks are in all ways inefficient. You cannot account for people being stupid, if you do then you will not achieve balance as the people who are intelligent will exploit the situation created.
that is where you are 99% of time mistaken goum.
You think most peopel fit their ships based on precise lines of the best overall efficiency and nothing more. It snot like that! People are humans and they do less than logical thigns MOST of the time. Your optimal omni tank is in fact a HORRIBLE option on this scenario. Because the general optimal fit is rarely the best fit for a specific scenario. You always think peopel will act absolutely and exactly as You would. And that is pretty much the trait of a fail strategist. You must take into account their fears and desires. A lot of people will stock up a lot on tank.. because they are more fearful of loosing their ships. Some will put more damage mods because they do not care loosing the ship but want to show up on killboards.. Etc....
People are all different, and they do not think like you always!
My typhoon with non optimal tank would wipe the floor with your megatron gang. So easily would not even be funny. A simple statement that having a narrowminded point of view will lead only to stagnation and eventual failure.
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Traderboz
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Posted - 2009.03.23 12:17:00 -
[1149]
I think Goum is saying you should fit an omni tank, since you don't know what you're going to encounter. You could stack em/therm resist hoping to meet Amarr opponents, but you might run into a lawltempest gang (who would probably still lose ;p).
I don't think he's saying everyone DOES fit the optimal gear and omnitank. I'm pretty sure most pubbies have horrible fits. But since you don't know what to expect, I'd say comparing based on Omni is as good a bet as any.
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Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
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Posted - 2009.03.23 12:25:00 -
[1150]
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: Hell'n
I'm not the sisi warrior, so why would I be bitter about you failing?
Keep biting, it's funny.
I think NightmareX needs a ladder, that hole he's in is pretty deep. Strange thing is, he keeps digging.
A liar caught is still a liar bud....
I think NightmareX prefer to be a sisi warrior anyday before being a dumb EFT warrior, that someone clearly are in this topic.
NightmareX tests ships, and what do the EFT warriors do?, lol read some stats.
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|
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Seishi Maru
M. Corp
Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2009.03.23 12:29:00 -
[1151]
Originally by: Traderboz
I think Goum is saying you should fit an omni tank, since you don't know what you're going to encounter. You could stack em/therm resist hoping to meet Amarr opponents, but you might run into a lawltempest gang (who would probably still lose ;p).
I don't think he's saying everyone DOES fit the optimal gear and omnitank. I'm pretty sure most pubbies have horrible fits. But since you don't know what to expect, I'd say comparing based on Omni is as good a bet as any.
what goum call omni tank is usign omni module sonly. EANM and DC. That result in a AMMAR skewed tank. Because on his eyes. EANM gives a total of 100% resistances (summ up all 4 types) whiel a hardeners gives 55%. So his omni tank is the oposite you are thinking.
Theoretically he is right. An EANM only tank will result in average higher resistances. But HORRIBLE distribution. When you have few slots to use its a good bet (specially after the stupid EM resist nerf). But Hardener tanks even havign worse total summed resists maybe way waaaay superior.
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Seishi Maru
M. Corp
Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2009.03.23 12:30:00 -
[1152]
Originally by: Electric Universe
Edited by: Electric Universe on 23/03/2009 12:29:47
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: Hell'n
I'm not the sisi warrior, so why would I be bitter about you failing?
Keep biting, it's funny.
I think NightmareX needs a ladder, that hole he's in is pretty deep. Strange thing is, he keeps digging.
A liar caught is still a liar bud....
I think NightmareX prefer to be a sisi warrior anyday before being a dumb EFT warrior, that someone clearly are in this topic.
NightmareX tests ships, and what do the EFT warriors do?, lol read some stats. And then does some epic e-peen stroking of their ships in how awesome their EHP is.
At least they know if the ship FITS contrary to some :P
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Marn Prestoc
Minmatar
Queens of the Stone Age
Rote Kapelle
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Posted - 2009.03.23 12:34:00 -
[1153]
Originally by: Yakov Draken
I dunno why so many people can't figure this out:
- Remote reps are short range
- Blasters are short range
- RR fights are short range
- Blasters rock in RR fights
- RR BS are pretty damn pwn so blasters rock.
If you fought regularily in RR BS gangs this would be obvious.
Blasters are not an odd, gimicky weapon, for use on occassion, they are a brutal face pwnage system that combo's with one of the most powerful tactics in the game - remote repping.
Thank god someone else who plays the same game as me, when I posted something like this earlier they were to busy arguing to notice (or couldn't find a fault with it).
Ok RR gang, just looking at Aba, Geddon and Mega.
RR Tank/Damage - Geddon setup is barely legitimate, would need to be no MWD to fit LRAR + Megapulse. Aba has worst cap issue, then Geddon, then Mega before AC/Seige ships. Before say BUT MWDING ABOUT! read the quote and stop using FFA1 on SISI.
Pretty good advantage within RR range (also WD+Web range) before putting drones into the equation. Pretty similar to a Geddon but with an additional Mid slot.
RR Tank/Damage 2 Showing a Mega using Null. Loses its close range advantage to do about 50% damage in the 20-25km range. Of course past the 18km range lasers will of switched to Scorch (most will use AN MF and Scorch and not carry a set of each crystals cos its stupidly expensive). Hence its not really till 25km+ that in a RR gang a Mega is outclassed by the same margin it outclasses others in the sub 10km area.
Note: the longer the target ship is in armour, the 3 layer average moves more towards the armour resistance shown. The 3 layer average is more a best case for lasers where the target recieves no RR assistance, hence the true average will be somewhere between the two shown tanks.
This is why I only really support a larger tracking penalty to Scorch so it truely affects the weapon at the ranges it is used, which is also the ranges other weapons are deep into falloff so will do very low damage.
-
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Seishomaru
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Posted - 2009.03.23 13:32:00 -
[1154]
Originally by: Marn Prestoc
Originally by: Yakov Draken
I dunno why so many people can't figure this out:
- Remote reps are short range
- Blasters are short range
- RR fights are short range
- Blasters rock in RR fights
- RR BS are pretty damn pwn so blasters rock.
If you fought regularily in RR BS gangs this would be obvious.
Blasters are not an odd, gimicky weapon, for use on occassion, they are a brutal face pwnage system that combo's with one of the most powerful tactics in the game - remote repping.
Thank god someone else who plays the same game as me, when I posted something like this earlier they were to busy arguing to notice (or couldn't find a fault with it).
Ok RR gang, just looking at Aba, Geddon and Mega.
RR Tank/Damage - Geddon setup is barely legitimate, would need to be no MWD to fit LRAR + Megapulse. Aba has worst cap issue, then Geddon, then Mega before AC/Seige ships. Before say BUT MWDING ABOUT! read the quote and stop using FFA1 on SISI.
Pretty good advantage within RR range (also WD+Web range) before putting drones into the equation. Pretty similar to a Geddon but with an additional Mid slot.
RR Tank/Damage 2 Showing a Mega using Null. Loses its close range advantage to do about 50% damage in the 20-25km range. Of course past the 18km range lasers will of switched to Scorch (most will use AN MF and Scorch and not carry a set of each crystals cos its stupidly expensive). Hence its not really till 25km+ that in a RR gang a Mega is outclassed by the same margin it outclasses others in the sub 10km area.
Note: the longer the target ship is in armour, the 3 layer average moves more towards the armour resistance shown. The 3 layer average is more a best case for lasers where the target recieves no RR assistance, hence the true average will be somewhere between the two shown tanks.
This is why I only really support a larger tracking penalty to Scorch so it truely affects the weapon at the ranges it is used, which is also the ranges other weapons are deep into falloff so will do very low damage.
You can fight that way sure. But that is not the ONLY way to use RR gangs. You can take advantage of the range for some time. Also You can use AB only on RR gangs if you are in an ammar ship. Since you do not have to run anywhere! So do not discount that as an non-legitimate fit on ammar ships!
I think megas are good on that role. Just not THE best (still think typhoon is superior). And that tempest is quite worse.
Also the resists idea is valid but only to a certain degree. I for example never fit simplistic EANM DC tanks on RR gangs.
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Mag's
the united
Negative Ten.
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Posted - 2009.03.23 13:55:00 -
[1155]
Originally by: Electric Universe
First off, i'm from Norway and NightmareX is from Norway to. And english is not our strongest language to write.
The hole NightmareX is in is no where as big as the EFT warrior hole is. That hole is huge.
No your not a sisi warrior, but your a forum alt who doesn't have the balls to post with your main, witch means you fail much much more.
But as you can see, NightmareX haven't posted here on this forum now for about 7-8 days. He still have 5-6 days left of his forum ban.
So how can he post here?.
Oh the irony.
Not sure which is the saddest....
NightmareX complaining about alt posting
Is a sisi warrior, complaining about peoples EFT fits, when he has no clue how to fit a ship himself.
Still claiming Electric Universe is not him.
The only reason I can think, as to why he still keeps on the pretence, is account sharing.
Electric Universe could well be his friends, but NightmareX is using it for forum trolling.
Everyone and their dog knows it's NightmareX.
Regards
Mag's |
Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
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Posted - 2009.03.23 14:08:00 -
[1156]
Edited by: Electric Universe on 23/03/2009 14:10:52
Originally by: Mag's
Originally by: Electric Universe
First off, i'm from Norway and NightmareX is from Norway to. And english is not our strongest language to write.
The hole NightmareX is in is no where as big as the EFT warrior hole is. That hole is huge.
No your not a sisi warrior, but your a forum alt who doesn't have the balls to post with your main, witch means you fail much much more.
But as you can see, NightmareX haven't posted here on this forum now for about 7-8 days. He still have 5-6 days left of his forum ban.
So how can he post here?.
Oh the irony.
Not sure which is the saddest....
NightmareX complaining about alt posting
Is a sisi warrior, complaining about peoples EFT fits, when he has no clue how to fit a ship himself.
Still claiming Electric Universe is not him.
The only reason I can think, as to why he still keeps on the pretence, is account sharing.
Electric Universe could well be his friends, but NightmareX is using it for forum trolling.
Everyone and their dog knows it's NightmareX.
And everyone knows that all you can do is to troll.
Ok, from now on i'm gonna accuse you for being an isk seller. You gonna like that?. I have my internet proofs that you are.
Maybe you should write about what this topic is about instead of accusing me for being someone i'm not.
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Traderboz
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Posted - 2009.03.23 14:11:00 -
[1157]
The difference being he's done nothing to make him look like an ISK seller, so who cares. On the other hand, you've done just about everything to make it look like you are NightmareX (because you are NightmareX), so hence the humor.
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Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
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Posted - 2009.03.23 14:13:00 -
[1158]
Originally by: Traderboz
The difference being he's done nothing to make him look like an ISK seller, so who cares. On the other hand, you've done just about everything to make it look like you are NightmareX (because you are NightmareX), so hence the humor.
Says an alt, hahaha.
Yeah, what alts are saying is always true.
And the only thing that is more like NightmareX here is that i have about the same writing style as him. Oh boy, what do you expect when we have been growing up together the last 20 years?.
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The Djego
Minmatar
merovinger inc
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Posted - 2009.03.23 14:16:00 -
[1159]
Originally by: Marn Prestoc
Originally by: Yakov Draken
I dunno why so many people can't figure this out:
- Remote reps are short range
- Blasters are short range
- RR fights are short range
- Blasters rock in RR fights
- RR BS are pretty damn pwn so blasters rock.
If you fought regularily in RR BS gangs this would be obvious.
Blasters are not an odd, gimicky weapon, for use on occassion, they are a brutal face pwnage system that combo's with one of the most powerful tactics in the game - remote repping.
Thank god someone else who plays the same game as me, when I posted something like this earlier they were to busy arguing to notice (or couldn't find a fault with it).
Ok RR gang, just looking at Aba, Geddon and Mega.
RR Tank/Damage - Geddon setup is barely legitimate, would need to be no MWD to fit LRAR + Megapulse. Aba has worst cap issue, then Geddon, then Mega before AC/Seige ships. Before say BUT MWDING ABOUT! read the quote and stop using FFA1 on SISI.
Pretty good advantage within RR range (also WD+Web range) before putting drones into the equation. Pretty similar to a Geddon but with an additional Mid slot.
RR Tank/Damage 2 Showing a Mega using Null. Loses its close range advantage to do about 50% damage in the 20-25km range. Of course past the 18km range lasers will of switched to Scorch (most will use AN MF and Scorch and not carry a set of each crystals cos its stupidly expensive). Hence its not really till 25km+ that in a RR gang a Mega is outclassed by the same margin it outclasses others in the sub 10km area.
Note: the longer the target ship is in armour, the 3 layer average moves more towards the armour resistance shown. The 3 layer average is more a best case for lasers where the target recieves no RR assistance, hence the true average will be somewhere between the two shown tanks.
This is why I only really support a larger tracking penalty to Scorch so it truely affects the weapon at the ranges it is used, which is also the ranges other weapons are deep into falloff so will do very low damage.
Well this is all based around all the targets have a Omni Tank and both gangs sitting very close together wanting to slug it out.
- If you jump true a gate or into a Belt with a RR Gang the mega will be the Ship that goes for Web or possible Bump another ship first, mostly putting it out of RR range when you fight without bubbles
- the longer the fight goes the more the targets spread out(if they are not a RR BS gang herself)
- T2 Ships and Shield Tanks are a common in PVP to, 75% of all T2 Ships have preaty deacend Kin\Therm Resistances, only 1 Race(Minmatar) have a huge EM resistance
- other ships are also preaty good in this scenarios(like Domi or Phoon) by adding more flexibility or RR to the gang
-> it is preaty mutch is a situation where the range disadvantage and the EHP disadvantage(you fit more defensive in RR Gangs, you don¦t nessesary do this out of RR gangs) is covered by other short range of RR battles and the RR Ability
Amarr ships do this job well to, since there will be some T2 Ships/Shield Tanks or you will need some range to hit antisupport/support Ships(what can¦t be done by Blaster BS without leaving RR range) what evens out the hole thing in the end most of the time.
Without Lag you only need a second to switch to Scorch beyond 18-20km you can¦t switch the Amno in this with Blasters so you will make your disicon before the fight or after all Targets within your range are killed.
Btw there is a small error in the graph discription(labeling the 3 MFS Fittings as 2 MFS fittings).
----
Nerf Tank - Boost Gank!
Originally by: Amantus
Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
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Mag's
the united
Negative Ten.
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Posted - 2009.03.23 14:29:00 -
[1160]
Originally by: Electric Universe
And everyone knows that all you can do is to troll.
Ok, from now on i'm gonna accuse you for being an isk seller. You gonna like that?. I have my internet proofs that you are.
Maybe you should write about what this topic is about instead of accusing me for being someone i'm not.
Being delusional cannot be easy, I feel sorry for you, I really do.
Regards
Mag's |
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Goumindong
Amarr
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.03.23 14:43:00 -
[1161]
Originally by: Seishi Maru
that is where you are 99% of time mistaken goum.
You think most peopel fit their ships based on precise lines of the best overall efficiency and nothing more. It snot like that! People are humans and they do less than logical thigns MOST of the time. Your optimal omni tank is in fact a HORRIBLE option on this scenario. Because the general optimal fit is rarely the best fit for a specific scenario. You always think peopel will act absolutely and exactly as You would. And that is pretty much the trait of a fail strategist. You must take into account their fears and desires. A lot of people will stock up a lot on tank.. because they are more fearful of loosing their ships. Some will put more damage mods because they do not care loosing the ship but want to show up on killboards.. Etc....
People are all different, and they do not think like you always!
My typhoon with non optimal tank would wipe the floor with your megatron gang. So easily would not even be funny. A simple statement that having a narrowminded point of view will lead only to stagnation and eventual failure.
The question is not "who wins when one side has more information than the other side". That answer is clear, the question is "what is the optimal solution when you do not know what you will engage" and in that instance the answer is always "fit omni tank modules" (except in some instances for shield tankers)
Information is the supreme advantage, you cannot balance the game around instances where one side has more, you have to assume even information(at least in this instance).
Similarly you cannot balance the game around what dumb people do. Yes, dumb people fly around with active hardeners, medium reps, no damage controls or damage mods on their battleships. Dumb people but lasers on Maelstroms. That doesn't mean that you should balance on assumptions of Laser Maelstroms.
Balance against optimal play under even information. Omni tanks are optimal play under even information.
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Childstar
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Posted - 2009.03.23 14:50:00 -
[1162]
Edited by: Childstar on 23/03/2009 14:51:36
/waits for both gourmie and nightmareX/electric to start blubbing feeble excuses...
Oh oh this is way to good to be wasted on a old page..
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Childstar
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Posted - 2009.03.23 14:52:00 -
[1163]
Edited by: Childstar on 23/03/2009 14:55:34
Originally by: Goumindong
Originally by: Childstar
Gourmies RRmega/mega fit...has:
73.4, 65.5, 65.5, 52.2 for 115,436 EHP.
832 DPS at 4.5KM + 300 dps from garde T2.
Abaddon fit with RR.
81, 75.7, 71.9, 70.1 for 134,371 EHP.
802 DPS at 15km + 180 dps from garde T2.
I neither understand what you're trying to say nor understand what you did to my fits
I did nothing to your fits i pointed out the DPS, its available range (that you again cut out RE-ADDED), the EHP and the gaping holes in the resistances of the mega compared to the abaddon.
Originally by: Goumindong
Also, according to your numbers before resistanecs the mega has 15% more DPS and the abaddons 16% more DPS. Which means that after resistances, the homogeneous mega gang will wipe the floor with your baddons. Resistance has a roughly 15% spread towards blasters and away from lasaers... 1.15 x 1.15=1.3225. Irony, thy name is Childstar.
Ok its ownage time...
1. The drones do thermal only damage.
2. Your fit shows the mega doing 30 more raw GUN DPS and that is LESS THAN 3.8% more raw GUN DPS than the abaddon.
3. The abaddon has 75.7 thermal and 71.9 kinetic resists and the mega does 58% more kinetic DMG with its guns than thermal so including the drones and after the abaddons resists:
The mega starts with 7 guns and RR with 832 gun dps and 300 drone dps to be assigned.
300 thermal drone dmg from gaurd less 75.7% = 72.9 DPS.
482.56 kinetic damage from its guns less 71.9% = 135.6 DPS.
394.44 thermal damage from its guns less 75.7% = 84.9 DPS.
THE MEGA GETS A TOTAL OF 293.4 MAX DPS AT 4.5KM vs THE ABADDON.
4. Your mega has 73.4 em, 65.5 thermal resists and the abaddon does 58% more EM dmg with its guns than thermal so including the drones and after the megas resists:
The abaddon starts with 7 guns and RR with 802 gun dps and 180 drone dps to be assigned.
180 thr drone dmg less 65.5% = 62.1 DPS.
465.16 gun em damage less 73.4% = 123.8 DPS.
336.84 gun th damage less 65.5% = 116.2 DPS.
THE ABAD GETS A TOTAL OF 302.1 MAX DPS AT 15KM vs YOUR MEGA.
So wheres the 35% now pal?.
THE ABAD GETS A TOTAL OF 302.1 MAX DPS AFTER RESISTS AT 15KM vs YOUR MEGA.
THE MEGA GETS A TOTAL OF 293.4 MAX DPS AFTER RESISTS AT 4.5KM vs THE ABAD.
The mega actually has 3% LESS DPS and 300% less range, and a WEAK 52.2% explosive resist hole and also has 18% LESS EHP.
OWNED.
The end.
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irion felpamy
Minmatar
HellJumpers Corp
United For 0rder
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Posted - 2009.03.23 15:09:00 -
[1164]
Originally by: Childstar
Edited by: Childstar on 23/03/2009 15:02:23
Originally by: Goumindong
Originally by: Childstar
Gourmies RRmega/mega fit...has:
73.4, 65.5, 65.5, 52.2 for 115,436 EHP.
832 DPS at 4.5KM + 300 dps from garde T2.
Abaddon fit with RR.
81, 75.7, 71.9, 70.1 for 134,371 EHP.
802 DPS at 15km + 180 dps from garde T2.
I neither understand what you're trying to say nor understand what you did to my fits
I did nothing to your fits i pointed out the DPS, its available range (that you again cut out RE-ADDED), the EHP and the gaping holes in the resistances of the mega compared to the abaddon.
Originally by: Goumindong
Also, according to your numbers before resistanecs the mega has 15% more DPS and the abaddons 16% more DPS. Which means that after resistances, the homogeneous mega gang will wipe the floor with your baddons. Resistance has a roughly 15% spread towards blasters and away from lasaers... 1.15 x 1.15=1.3225. Irony, thy name is Childstar.
Ok its ownage time...
1. The drones do thermal only damage.
2. Your fit shows the mega doing 30 more raw GUN DPS and that is LESS THAN 3.8% more raw GUN DPS than the abaddon.
3. The abaddon has 75.7 thermal and 71.9 kinetic resists and the mega does 58% more kinetic DMG with its guns than thermal so including the drones and after the abaddons resists:
The mega starts with 7 guns and RR with 832 gun dps and 300 drone dps to be assigned.
300 thermal drone dmg from gaurd less 75.7% = 72.9 DPS.
482.56 kinetic damage from its guns less 71.9% = 135.6 DPS.
394.44 thermal damage from its guns less 75.7% = 84.9 DPS.
THE MEGA GETS A TOTAL OF 293.4 MAX DPS AT 4.5KM vs THE ABADDON.
4. Your mega has 73.4 em, 65.5 thermal resists and the abaddon does 58% more EM dmg with its guns than thermal so including the drones and after the megas resists:
The abaddon starts with 7 guns and RR with 802 gun dps and 180 drone dps to be assigned.
180 thr drone dmg less 65.5% = 62.1 DPS.
465.16 gun em damage less 73.4% = 123.8 DPS.
336.84 gun th damage less 65.5% = 116.2 DPS.
THE ABAD GETS A TOTAL OF 302.1 MAX DPS AT 15KM vs YOUR MEGA.
So wheres the 35% now pal?.
THE ABAD GETS A TOTAL OF 302.1 MAX DPS AFTER RESISTS AT 15KM vs YOUR MEGA.
THE MEGA GETS A TOTAL OF 293.4 MAX DPS AFTER RESISTS AT 4.5KM vs THE ABAD.
The mega actually has 3% LESS DPS and 300% less range, and a WEAK 52.2% explosive resist hole and also has 18% LESS EHP.
OWNED.
The end.
PS: Lying, manipulative, amarr biased fanboi, thy name is Gourmindong....
You are assuming they are both firing at eachother, in reality they would both be victimising some poor bastard in a tempest.
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Mag's
the united
Negative Ten.
|
Posted - 2009.03.23 15:11:00 -
[1165]
Originally by: irion felpamy
Originally by: Childstar
Post...
You are assuming they are both firing at eachother, in reality they would both be victimising some poor bastard in a tempest.
I have to say that made me laugh IRL.
Regards
Mag's |
Marn Prestoc
Minmatar
Queens of the Stone Age
Rote Kapelle
|
Posted - 2009.03.23 15:17:00 -
[1166]
Originally by: Seishomaru
If you fit a AB on a BS in one of my gangs you'll be laughed out of it. Don't have to run anywhere? Jump into hostiles, Oh hi gang mate who's 15km on other side of gate so 30km away, guess i'll go travel at 300m/s towards the mid point (gate) or to you and watch you die while my RR does nothing to help you.
I don't use actives unless using more than 3 resistance mods + DC. So thats 6 tank mods at least (plates+resistances+dc) which means 1 damage mod on a 7 low slot setup. Pre change of base resistances I was more happy to use 3 active hards when using 3 resistance mods but not now. CCP re-balanced the base resistances for EANM tanks, so EANM tanks is what they get.
Originally by: The Djego
Well I was basing it on a RR gang meeting another BS gang. If a RR gang meets another BS gang that isn't RR (assuming not talk huge numbers hence snipers) the RR gang should win easily everything else being equal (ECM ect). It's as legitimate role as being a sniper (which the Mega also does well) or solo ship.
- If you jump through a gate the first action is usually to MWD back to the gate, this will drop cloak so you can target and also get all your ships closer for RR'ing. I've never ever seen a hostile RR gang sat off the gate or station unless sniping. Being able to deagress (whilst still RR'ing) is to powerful to waste. If your doing stuff like bumping and tackling people trying to run then it sounds like you have the advantage and are just clearing up.
- I don't think that targets spread out the more the fight goes on unless its either a nano gang or sniper gang. Assuming its a RR battle in a belt or outside a POS then yeah you don't have as much reason to stay still hence aligning is more important but still you can't stray to far from friendlies.
Also the longer the fight goes on the more important it is to have lower cap use. My boss loves her Tempest purely because of the times in RR gangs when Geddons have ran out of cap and Mega's are about to but she is still popping away at stuff with her AC's. Obviously not short battles...
- Shield tanks at BS level in gangs are weak tbh. Mid slots are to valueable, if have tacklers (dictors ect) so don't need to tackle then ECCM/Sensor boosters to ensure locks and quick locking.
Yes at cruiser level its more balanced between number of shield tanks and armour, as well as the resistances, have argued those points myself. Thats part of the reason I think Scorch needs more of a tracking penalty since most of the ships that are 20km+ are smaller ships, and the EM damage type really isn't a weakness like at BS level. Lasors and cruise missiles were the weapons to use in the nano (and web) age, and with slower speeds making web range less insta-death lasors are still as good out of web range.
Although tbh the #1 ship i'd want if facing cruiser gang is Domi's. Sentry drones, heavy neuts, remote reps ECCM mids.... pawnage.
- That's kind of my point really, Amarr RR BS are great for fighting gangs of smaller ships who try to keep range and more balance resistances, Megathron RR are great for fighting other BS gangs who have EANM tanks (gallente of course have the domi to which is great for fighting anything in a RR gang).
- No error, it was a 2 MFS fitting.
-
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Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
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Posted - 2009.03.23 15:17:00 -
[1167]
Edited by: Electric Universe on 23/03/2009 15:21:18
Originally by: Childstar
Edited by: Childstar on 23/03/2009 15:04:26
Originally by: Goumindong
Originally by: Childstar
Gourmies RRmega/mega fit...has:
73.4, 65.5, 65.5, 52.2 for 115,436 EHP.
832 DPS at 4.5KM + 300 dps from garde T2.
Abaddon fit with RR.
81, 75.7, 71.9, 70.1 for 134,371 EHP.
802 DPS at 15km + 180 dps from garde T2.
I neither understand what you're trying to say nor understand what you did to my fits
I did nothing to your fits i pointed out the DPS, its available range (that you again cut out RE-ADDED), the EHP and the gaping holes in the resistances of the mega compared to the abaddon.
Originally by: Goumindong
Also, according to your numbers before resistanecs the mega has 15% more DPS and the abaddons 16% more DPS. Which means that after resistances, the homogeneous mega gang will wipe the floor with your baddons. Resistance has a roughly 15% spread towards blasters and away from lasaers... 1.15 x 1.15=1.3225. Irony, thy name is Childstar.
Ok its ownage time...
1. The drones do thermal only damage.
2. Your fit shows the mega doing 30 more raw GUN DPS and that is LESS THAN 3.8% more raw GUN DPS than the abaddon.
3. The abaddon has 75.7 thermal and 71.9 kinetic resists and the mega does 58% more kinetic DMG with its guns than thermal so including the drones and after the abaddons resists:
Your mega starts with 7 guns and RR with 832 gun dps and 300 drone dps to be assigned.
300 thermal drone dmg from gaurd less 75.7% = 72.9 DPS.
482.56 kinetic damage from its guns less 71.9% = 135.6 DPS.
394.44 thermal damage from its guns less 75.7% = 84.9 DPS.
YOUR MEGA GETS A TOTAL OF 293.4 MAX DPS AT 4.5KM vs THE ABADDON.
4. Your mega has 73.4 em, 65.5 thermal resists and the abaddon does 58% more EM dmg with its guns than thermal so including the drones and after the megas resists:
The abaddon starts with 7 guns and RR with 802 gun dps and 180 drone dps to be assigned.
180 thr drone dmg less 65.5% = 62.1 DPS.
465.16 gun em damage less 73.4% = 123.8 DPS.
336.84 gun th damage less 65.5% = 116.2 DPS.
THE ABAD GETS A TOTAL OF 302.1 MAX DPS AT 15KM vs YOUR MEGA.
So wheres the 35% now pal?.
THE ABAD GETS A TOTAL OF 302.1 MAX DPS AFTER RESISTS AT 15KM vs YOUR MEGA.
THE MEGA GETS A TOTAL OF 293.4 MAX DPS AFTER RESISTS AT 4.5KM vs THE ABAD.
Your mega actually has 3% LESS DPS and 300% less range, and a WEAK 52.2% explosive resist hole and also has 18% LESS EHP.
OWNED.
The end.
PS: Lying, manipulative, amarr biased fanboi, thy name is Gourmindong....
Can i ask why you are comparing Blaster Mega at 4.5 km and then compare a Laser Abaddon at 15 km?.
Hey smartpants. Compare 4.5 km to 4.5 km.
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Marn Prestoc
Minmatar
Queens of the Stone Age
Rote Kapelle
|
Posted - 2009.03.23 15:22:00 -
[1168]
Originally by: Mag's
Originally by: irion felpamy
Originally by: Childstar
Post...
You are assuming they are both firing at eachother, in reality they would both be victimising some poor bastard in a tempest.
I have to say that made me laugh IRL.
Ditto.
-
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Childstar
|
Posted - 2009.03.23 15:22:00 -
[1169]
Edited by: Childstar on 23/03/2009 15:25:35
Originally by: Electric Universe
Can i ask why you are comparing Blaster Mega at 4.5 km and then compare a Laser Abaddon at 15 km.
Hey smartpants. Compare 4.5 km to 4.5 km.
The blaster ship only has a optimal of 0-4.5km at its max available damage.
While the laser ship has a 0-15km optimal at its max available damage.
Is this the best you can do?....you know for somebody who goes on about "proof" ect you really do not like it when it does not suit your preferances do you?..
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Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
|
Posted - 2009.03.23 15:24:00 -
[1170]
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: Electric Universe
Can i ask why you are comparing Blaster Mega at 4.5 km and then compare a Laser Abaddon at 15 km.
Hey smartpants. Compare 4.5 km to 4.5 km.
Im not,
The blaster ship only has a optimal of 0-4.5km at its max available damage.
While the laser ship has a 0-15km optimal at its max available damage.
Is this the best you can do?....
But then we can for sure say that your doing things here terribly wrong.
Good work for showing that you can't do the right math and do the right things when it's about comparing ships etc.
|
|
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irion felpamy
Minmatar
HellJumpers Corp
United For 0rder
|
Posted - 2009.03.23 15:26:00 -
[1171]
Originally by: Electric Universe
No ships in EVE sucks. Every ships is good in some ways. It all depends on what play style you have and what you are fighting.
Lots of ships in eve suck, tempest, scythe, cyclone, prophecy and auguor for a start. They can all fit guns and can win fights in the right situations but that doesn't stop them being bum.
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Childstar
|
Posted - 2009.03.23 15:30:00 -
[1172]
Edited by: Childstar on 23/03/2009 15:31:40
Originally by: Electric Universe
But then we can for sure say that your doing things here terribly wrong.
Good work for showing that you can't do the right math and do the right things when it's about comparing ships etc.
The math is fine.
T2 Pulse with faction MF get 0-15km optimal.
T2 nuets with faction AM get 0-4.5km optimal.
And the damage amounts given for each ship are using those ammo types.
Try harder.
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Seishi Maru
M. Corp
Mostly Harmless
|
Posted - 2009.03.23 15:34:00 -
[1173]
Originally by: Marn Prestoc
Originally by: Seishomaru
If you fit a AB on a BS in one of my gangs you'll be laughed out of it. Don't have to run anywhere? Jump into hostiles, Oh hi gang mate who's 15km on other side of gate so 30km away, guess i'll go travel at 300m/s towards the mid point (gate) or to you and watch you die while my RR does nothing to help you.
I don't use actives unless using more than 3 resistance mods + DC. So thats 6 tank mods at least (plates+resistances+dc) which means 1 damage mod on a 7 low slot setup. Pre change of base resistances I was more happy to use 3 active hards when using 3 resistance mods but not now. CCP re-balanced the base resistances for EANM tanks, so EANM tanks is what they get.
Originally by: The Djego
Well I was basing it on a RR gang meeting another BS gang. If a RR gang meets another BS gang that isn't RR (assuming not talk huge numbers hence snipers) the RR gang should win easily everything else being equal (ECM ect). It's as legitimate role as being a sniper (which the Mega also does well) or solo ship.
- If you jump through a gate the first action is usually to MWD back to the gate, this will drop cloak so you can target and also get all your ships closer for RR'ing. I've never ever seen a hostile RR gang sat off the gate or station unless sniping. Being able to deagress (whilst still RR'ing) is to powerful to waste. If your doing stuff like bumping and tackling people trying to run then it sounds like you have the advantage and are just clearing up.
- I don't think that targets spread out the more the fight goes on unless its either a nano gang or sniper gang. Assuming its a RR battle in a belt or outside a POS then yeah you don't have as much reason to stay still hence aligning is more important but still you can't stray to far from friendlies.
Also the longer the fight goes on the more important it is to have lower cap use. My boss loves her Tempest purely because of the times in RR gangs when Geddons have ran out of cap and Mega's are about to but she is still popping away at stuff with her AC's. Obviously not short battles...
- Shield tanks at BS level in gangs are weak tbh. Mid slots are to valueable, if have tacklers (dictors ect) so don't need to tackle then ECCM/Sensor boosters to ensure locks and quick locking.
Yes at cruiser level its more balanced between number of shield tanks and armour, as well as the resistances, have argued those points myself. Thats part of the reason I think Scorch needs more of a tracking penalty since most of the ships that are 20km+ are smaller ships, and the EM damage type really isn't a weakness like at BS level. Lasors and cruise missiles were the weapons to use in the nano (and web) age, and with slower speeds making web range less insta-death lasors are still as good out of web range.
Although tbh the #1 ship i'd want if facing cruiser gang is Domi's. Sentry drones, heavy neuts, remote reps ECCM mids.... pawnage.
- That's kind of my point really, Amarr RR BS are great for fighting gangs of smaller ships who try to keep range and more balance resistances, Megathron RR are great for fighting other BS gangs who have EANM tanks (gallente of course have the domi to which is great for fighting anything in a RR gang).
- No error, it was a 2 MFS fitting.
Its not my problem that you are narrow-minded. Almost everyone with a brain has already noticed that out of 0.0 there is a TON of situations where AB is more than enough specially if allows much easier fittings.
EANM are great when you will fit only 2 resit modules + DC. But Then don 't complain when a typhoon, raven or maesltrom chew up your tank like chocolate.... Also all WELL DEPLOYED RR armor gang should have a damnation giving you extra resists (or at least wasteful BC) that stack muuuch better on Tri hardeners. Granted Tri hardeners work well for Minmatar and less for other races.
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Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
|
Posted - 2009.03.23 15:35:00 -
[1174]
Originally by: Childstar
Edited by: Childstar on 23/03/2009 15:31:40
Originally by: Electric Universe
But then we can for sure say that your doing things here terribly wrong.
Good work for showing that you can't do the right math and do the right things when it's about comparing ships etc.
The math is fine.
T2 Pulse with faction MF get 0-15km optimal.
T2 nuets with faction AM get 0-4.5km optimal.
And the damage amounts given for each ship are using those ammo types.
Try harder.
Try harder to do the math at 4.5 km with both ships.
Oh wait, you only see that we are right about everything then. Now i know why you wont do it. Thanks for proving my point.
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Dallenovic
Rionnag Alba
Against ALL Authorities
|
Posted - 2009.03.23 15:42:00 -
[1175]
The thing that i think will be upsetting most blaster ship pilots now is that they have to get within tiny ranges to hit with their high damage ammo and now that warp scramblers will turn off your mwd, all it takes is ony inty/frig to completely render your ship useless.
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Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
|
Posted - 2009.03.23 15:44:00 -
[1176]
Originally by: Dallenovic
The thing that i think will be upsetting most blaster ship pilots now is that they have to get within tiny ranges to hit with their high damage ammo and now that warp scramblers will turn off your mwd, all it takes is ony inty/frig to completely render your ship useless.
A little frig can render any ships with MWD useless. A frig is fast and can get into scramble range in no time.
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Childstar
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Posted - 2009.03.23 15:57:00 -
[1177]
Edited by: Childstar on 23/03/2009 16:02:33
Originally by: Electric Universe
Try harder to do the math at 4.5 km with both ships.
At 4.5km the mega does raw 832 gun dps + 300 raw drone dps.
At 4.5km the abad does raw 802 gun dps + 180 raw drone dps.
The actual DMG after each ships resists and damage types are taken into account:
The abad gets a total of 302.1 DPS at 4.5km vs the mega.
The mega gets a total of 293.4 DPS at 4.5km vs the mega.
The abad can continue to do its 302.1 damage against the mega out to 15km.
While the megas 293.4 damage drops off considerably as it goes beyond 4.5km.
Any transversal issues reducing dmg will be non existant due to multiple webs as well as the relative positions of each gangs ships, while in general RR gang combat that includes other ships like the RR phoon fit ect the mega is also at a major disadvantage as it has awful EX resists as well as lower EHP than the abaddon.
The points about the megas holed tank and EHP were mentioned in the original post, and transversal not being even a slight issue in close range BS gang combat is obvious to all.
Maybe you should try reading the original post a little more carefully?.
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Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
|
Posted - 2009.03.23 16:01:00 -
[1178]
Edited by: Electric Universe on 23/03/2009 16:06:34
Originally by: Childstar
Edited by: Childstar on 23/03/2009 15:58:25
Originally by: Electric Universe
Try harder to do the math at 4.5 km with both ships.
At 4.5km the mega does raw 832 gun dps + 300 raw drone dps.
At 4.5km the abad does raw 802 gun dps + 180 raw drone dps.
The actual DMG after each ships resists and damage types are taken into account:
The abad gets a total of 302.1 DPS at 4.5km vs the mega.
The mega gets a total of 293.4 DPS at 4.5km vs the mega.
The abad can continue to do its 302.1 damage against the mega out to 15km.
While the megas 293.4 damage drops off considerably as it goes beyond 4.5km.
Any transversal issues reducing dmg will be non existant due to multiple webs as well as the relative positions of each gangs ships, while in general RR gang combat that includes the phoon fit ect the mega is also at a major disadvantage as it has awful EX resists and lower EHP.
The points about the megas holed tank and EHP were mentioned in the original post, and transversal not being even a slight issue in close range BS gang combat is obvious to all.
Maybe you should try reading the original post a little more carefully?.
Yeah, your tripple HS II fitted Abaddon are doing a total of 302.1 DPS at 4.5km vs the mega. While you compare that to a one MFS II fitted Blaster mega that does the total of 293.4 DPS at 4.5km vs the mega.
Wow, talk about being smart ass.
Maybe you should read this: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1016708&page=36#1063
And this: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1016708&page=36#1074
When you see that this is how things are, then we are going to listen to you. But atm your doing nothing more than EFT warrioring and e-peen stroking on who have the highest EHP etc etc.
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Dallenovic
Rionnag Alba
Against ALL Authorities
|
Posted - 2009.03.23 16:23:00 -
[1179]
Edited by: Dallenovic on 23/03/2009 16:24:57
Originally by: Electric Universe
A little frig can render any ships with MWD useless. A frig is fast and can get into scramble range in no time.
Sorry i was talking medium sized... But most other ships can hit at better ranges especially amarr and caldari, pulses hit at 24km with scorch, hams hit at 20km not like blasters 2k-13k range
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Childstar
|
Posted - 2009.03.23 16:33:00 -
[1180]
Edited by: Childstar on 23/03/2009 16:34:48
Originally by: Electric Universe
Yeah, your tripple HS II fitted Abaddon are doing a total of 302.1 DPS at 4.5km vs the mega. While you compare that to a one MFS II fitted Blaster mega that does the total of 293.4 DPS at 4.5km vs the mega.
Wow, talk about being smart ass.
As i told you before you should read more carefully.
It was gourmindongs 2 MFS RR MEGA/STD MEGA fit that the blaster DMG and resistance figures were taken from not the 1 MFS fit.
And it was my 7 x pulse 3 x HS abaddon fit the laser DMG and resistance figures were also taken from.
Both ships and fits are readily available to each race.
Originally by: Electric Universe
Maybe you should read this: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1016708&page=36#1063
A post initially about the phoon and using two RR instead of one...., and later commenting on how blasters are supposed to be "a brutal face pwnage system".
A comment that has now been proven totally wrong when it is compared to the abaddon as after resists are taken into account the RR abaddon out damages gourmies mega fit at the megas own optimal.
Originally by: Electric Universe
And this: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1016708&page=36#1074
Ok so he is talking about putting twin RR on a mega, il go over the figures and do another comparison.
Originally by: Electric Universe
When you see that this is how things are, then we are going to listen to you. But atm your doing nothing more than EFT warrioring and e-peen stroking on who have the highest EHP etc etc.
Who are you to talk about how things are?????, yesterday you did not know how to even fit a mega with a single RR let alone two.
And as far as your idea of a hyperion fit goes it was a joke FFS you slapped 8 T2 nuets and 2 LARS on and it ran out of PG before you even fitted a single module in its mid slots or any plates/resistances...
You know nothing about this topic and never did you are just a alt of a troll that got banned.
|
|
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Cohkka
Celestial Apocalypse
death from above..
|
Posted - 2009.03.23 17:13:00 -
[1181]
Originally by: Yakov Draken
Noooooooooo! Please don't aggree with me then argue the opposite.
I dunno why so many people can't figure this out:
- Remote reps are short range
- Blasters are short range
- RR fights are short range
- Blasters rock in RR fights
- RR BS are pretty damn pwn so blasters rock.
I wasn't arguing the opposite, I was pointing out the flaws of the other side of the coin.
What you have to say about RR gangs is wrong. For starters asuming every RR fight is closerange, they're centainly NOT. Second, you're assuming everyone with RRs will be in RR range of the enemy primary and vice versa (accounting for a blasterships need to be very close to the primary in order to deal damage), which is most certainly NOT the case, even in fights considered "closerange".
Don't speak english, just F5, F5, F5... |
Childstar
|
Posted - 2009.03.23 17:20:00 -
[1182]
Twin RR mega vs Twin RR abaddon.
The twin RR mega has a max dmg out put of 713 gun dps that is 58% kinetic and 42% thermal and 300 sentry drone dps that is thermal.
300 thermal drone dps less 75.7% = 72.9 dps.
413.54 kinetic gun dps less 71.9% = 116.2 dps.
299.04 thermal gun dps less 75.7% = 72.6 dps.
The mega hits the abaddon for a total of 261.7 dps from 0-4.5km after resists.
The twin RR abaddon has a max dmg output of 687 gun dps that is 58% em and 42% thermal and 180 sentry drone dps that is thermal
180 thermal drone dps less 65.5% = 62.10 dps.
398.46 em gun damage less 73.4% = 105.99 dps.
288.54 th gun damage less 65.5% = 99.54 dps.
The abaddon hits the mega for a total of 267.6 dps from 0-15km after resists.
The mega actually has 2% LESS DPS and 300% less range, and a WEAK 52.2% explosive resist hole and also has 18% LESS EHP.
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Marn Prestoc
Minmatar
Queens of the Stone Age
Rote Kapelle
|
Posted - 2009.03.23 17:23:00 -
[1183]
Originally by: Seishi Maru
Its not my problem that you are narrow-minded. Almost everyone with a brain has already noticed that out of 0.0 there is a TON of situations where AB is more than enough specially if allows much easier fittings.
EANM are great when you will fit only 2 resit modules + DC. But Then don 't complain when a typhoon, raven or maesltrom chew up your tank like chocolate.... Also all WELL DEPLOYED RR armor gang should have a damnation giving you extra resists (or at least wasteful BC) that stack muuuch better on Tri hardeners. Granted Tri hardeners work well for Minmatar and less for other races.
If being narrow minded means making sure everyone in your gang can get within RR range of each other then i'm guilty as charged! I'd call it being a team players rather than going "i'm lazor BS, you come to me!". Seriously, if not using a MWD when will doing 300m/s instead of 100m/s (assuming not webbed) by using a AB help more than a EW mod like ECCM?
If a Raven or Maelstrom is in a RR gang with shield effects it will be primaried instantly, then its really only the low raw DPS of Tempest/Typhoon left for EXP damage.
Agreed on the gang link points but it does depend on gang size and pilot availability. I'd count it as a resistance mod hence if using 2 EANM/ANP it would be the 3rd. If using 3 EANM/ANP then obviously having it as the 4th stacking penalized mod is daft so would have to change. But having EM lowest on both shields and armour is just daft, didn't do it when amarr were complaining about lazors/ships so not going to start now. Blame CCP's stupid balancing choice of nerfing all tanks EM res when people were only complaining about EANM tanks...
-
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Cohkka
Celestial Apocalypse
death from above..
|
Posted - 2009.03.23 17:38:00 -
[1184]
Originally by: Marn Prestoc
I have no idea what you lot are doing, a 1v1 fight does not help balance ships appart from in 1v1 situations. If you only compare EHP, Damage and Range vs a Abaddon then of course it will win. If you do that all other BS in EVE need boosting although logical answer if the methods was correct (which it isn't) is nerf Abaddon. For example you arn't taking into account cap use (seriously 2xLRAR Abaddon? LOL cap use). Your also comparing a tier 2 to 3 so cheaper ship vs more expensive (even after insurance).
Considering your graphs simulate a 1on1 situation against a generic BS sized double EANM + DC tanked target it's pretty stark from you discrediting him for his effort. I don't think he wanted to point out that the imballance is in a direct connection to a hypothetical 1on1 (as you did) but show how biased the assumption of your standardized tanks/racial resist destribution is.
Don't speak english, just F5, F5, F5... |
Childstar
|
Posted - 2009.03.23 17:55:00 -
[1185]
Edited by: Childstar on 23/03/2009 18:03:40
Originally by: Marn Prestoc
I have no idea what you lot are doing, a 1v1 fight does not help balance ships appart from in 1v1 situations.
It is not a 1 v 1 fight it is a comparison on how they perfom relative to each other as RR ships and the DMG out put they do against each others tanks.
It also shows the issues megas have in gang combat due to the awful explosive hole in its resists.
Originally by: Marn Prestoc
If you only compare EHP, Damage and Range vs a Abaddon then of course it will win.
In a RR BS gang vs RR BS gang or even standard BS gang vs BS gang situation EHP, damage and range are the most important factors.
And as ppl are saying that the blaster mega is supposed to be the uber close range pwn mobile for close range RR/standard BS combat a perspective on the fact that it is not should be given.
It cannot even out dmg a abaddon when they both have 1 or 2 RR and 7 or 6 guns and that needed to be shown as well as a look at the holes in its tank.
Originally by: Marn Prestoc
For example you arn't taking into account cap use (seriously 2xLRAR Abaddon? LOL cap use).
Yes i did.
With both ships fitted the same way (TWIN RR) the mega has 4 mins of cap without burning its mwd and 1 min with burning it and the abaddon has just under 3 mins without its mwd on and also 1 min with.
And obviously the abaddon would need to burn its MWD very rarely if at all, while the mega is renouned for needing to do just that just so it can get into good dmg range.
Originally by: Marn Prestoc
Your also comparing a tier 2 to 3 so cheaper ship vs more expensive (even after insurance).
They are both easily available to buy and fit as they use no implants or faction mods, and quibbling over a bit of isk differance when a player is going to HAVE to buy a ship anyway is just silly.
|
Mila Prestoc
|
Posted - 2009.03.23 18:04:00 -
[1186]
Originally by: Cohkka
Originally by: Marn Prestoc
I have no idea what you lot are doing, a 1v1 fight does not help balance ships appart from in 1v1 situations. If you only compare EHP, Damage and Range vs a Abaddon then of course it will win. If you do that all other BS in EVE need boosting although logical answer if the methods was correct (which it isn't) is nerf Abaddon. For example you arn't taking into account cap use (seriously 2xLRAR Abaddon? LOL cap use). Your also comparing a tier 2 to 3 so cheaper ship vs more expensive (even after insurance).
Considering your graphs simulate a 1on1 situation against a generic BS sized double EANM + DC tanked target it's pretty stark from you discrediting him for his effort. I don't think he wanted to point out that the imballance is in a direct connection to a hypothetical 1on1 (as you did) but show how biased the assumption of your standardized tanks/racial resist destribution is.
What are you on about? The comparisons are nothing alike. Calculating EHP vs DPS in a 1v1 fight only helps for a 1v1 fight.
Showing the damage outputs against a set target provides a CONSTANT for a comparison. That CONSTANT here is all 3 layers of HP of a armour tanked BS, which is not unreasonable. All 3 layers of resistances and HP are used to calculate ship averages for each damage type, this is more accurate than just using the tanked HP layer. I provided both because the situation means repairing is likely to occur hence longer is spent in the tanked HP layer, hence provided the boundries.
A 1v1 comparison has nothing to do with showing biased assumptions of standardized tanks. Are you seriously going to say active hardeners are more common than EANM/ANP? Otherwise where is bias?
-------------------------
Originally by: "Lord Violent"
EvE is slowly becoming a game for the stupid, catered to by devs as they lack ability to kill/survive anything.
|
ChalSto
LOCKDOWN.
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.03.23 18:17:00 -
[1187]
Originally by: Electric Universe
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: Electric Universe
Can i ask why you are comparing Blaster Mega at 4.5 km and then compare a Laser Abaddon at 15 km.
Hey smartpants. Compare 4.5 km to 4.5 km.
Im not,
The blaster ship only has a optimal of 0-4.5km at its max available damage.
While the laser ship has a 0-15km optimal at its max available damage.
Is this the best you can do?....
But then we can for sure say that your doing things here terribly wrong.
Good work for showing that you can't do the right math and do the right things when it's about comparing ships etc.
His math is right; its a realistic combat scenario and the outcome reflects current TQ game-mechanics and situations. The Baddon wins here....hands down and nothing to add or to critizise.
Originally by: Agmar
-----------------------------------------------
"The North is so ghey that even the NPCs fly ravens." |
Ixich
Gallente
Divinity Within
|
Posted - 2009.03.23 18:19:00 -
[1188]
Doing the physics:
Linear velocity = Radius of the circular path x Angular velocity
(Assuming the game works like this...? And Ignoring other mechanics such as gun size, rolls,.. etc. Lvl 5 skills ofc)
Mega can track with Mega Neutrons: 0.07442rad/s
Saying the radius is it's optimal 4.5km
- Mega can hit something at 4.5km going a maximum 334.89m/s
Abaddon can track with Mega Pulses: 0.04219rad/s
Saying the radius is it's optimal: 15km
- Abaddon can hit something at 15km going at a maximum 632.85m/s
That seems fair enough, maybe Pulses can track abit too well..?
Comparing abaddon at 4.5km:
- Abaddon can hit something at 4.5km going at a maximum 189.855m/s
Now what can we get from this...
-Aside from Damage types and Dps, Battleship Vs Battleship, moving at base speeds they can both hit each other perfectly fine.
Base speed:
Abaddon = 121m/s
Megathron= 138m/s
In reality though, the speed at which i am comparing to the linear velocity is actually the transversal of the two ships from one of the ships reference frames. Thus this will be a higher value, i'm not too sure on the real world values, thats something for you to evaluate yourselves.
OK... so Wtf am i actually concluding from all this?
One on one, these two battleships can fight equally well at close range, 4.5km, against each other.
However ofc if the abaddon gets some distance between the mega, he can kick out more damage and would potentially win the fight.
I'll leave with a question though:
If both BS's have no problem hitting each other at close ranges, doing the same damage, why the hell should i go with Blasters if i have the added bonus of range with Pulse lasers?
Imo Large blasters need a slight damge increase.
-Ix-
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Seishi Maru
M. Corp
Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2009.03.23 18:27:00 -
[1189]
Originally by: Marn Prestoc
Edited by: Marn Prestoc on 23/03/2009 17:35:03
I have no idea what you lot are doing, a 1v1 fight does not help balance ships appart from in 1v1 situations. If you only compare EHP, Damage and Range vs a Abaddon then of course it will win. If you do that all other BS in EVE need boosting although logical answer if the methods was correct (which it isn't) is nerf Abaddon. For example you arn't taking into account cap use (seriously 2xLRAR Abaddon? LOL cap use). Your also comparing a tier 2 to 3 so cheaper ship vs more expensive (even after insurance).
Abaddons will shoot Abaddons.
Megas will shoot Megas.
Everyone shoots Everyone.
Oh and where does this 4.5km thing come from? You know you can fire outside optimal, ask Minmatar pilots... Just look at the graphs on the last page, there's still an advantage at further ranges than optimal.
Originally by: Seishi Maru
Its not my problem that you are narrow-minded. Almost everyone with a brain has already noticed that out of 0.0 there is a TON of situations where AB is more than enough specially if allows much easier fittings.
EANM are great when you will fit only 2 resit modules + DC. But Then don 't complain when a typhoon, raven or maesltrom chew up your tank like chocolate.... Also all WELL DEPLOYED RR armor gang should have a damnation giving you extra resists (or at least wasteful BC) that stack muuuch better on Tri hardeners. Granted Tri hardeners work well for Minmatar and less for other races.
If being narrow minded means making sure everyone in your gang can get within RR range of each other then i'm guilty as charged! I'd call it being a team players rather than going "i'm lazor BS, you come to me!". Seriously, if not using a MWD when will doing 300m/s instead of 100m/s (assuming not webbed) by using a AB help more than a EW mod like ECCM?
If a Raven or Maelstrom is in a RR gang with shield effects it will be primaried instantly, then its really only the low raw DPS of Tempest/Typhoon left for EXP damage.
Agreed on the gang link points but it does depend on gang size and pilot availability. I'd count it as a resistance mod hence if using 2 EANM/ANP it would be the 3rd. If using 3 EANM/ANP then obviously having it as the 4th stacking penalized mod is daft so would have to change. But having EM lowest on both shields and armour is just daft, didn't do it when amarr were complaining about lazors/ships so not going to start now. Blame CCP's stupid balancing choice of nerfing all tanks EM res when people were only complaining about EANM tanks...
The objective is ok but the conception about its execution is not. Theory and rpactice have subltle differences, mostly tied to the nature of human brain. .... Takes 11 seconds for an abaddon (just an example) lock an armageddon using AB and 3 seconds to lock an armageddon with MWD. That while we are speaking of a RR BS gang. With overheat can reach 450 ms. Will be in RR range of anyone at the gate when I am finally locked when I can be webbed. That IF i am the first to be locked.... because the MWD ships will have already been locked and natural behavior is throw yoru tackle on first thing you lock. I try this for months.. works wonders... Also take into account the fact you are carried by inertia etc.. and things are not that worse than with an MWD. With an MWD you are 100% sure you gonna hit the gate. But I have been using AB on such situations for like.. 10 or more months and am yet to loose a ship because of it. So I prefer a geddon with Heavier guns and heavier tank but with AB than a MWD one with crappy fittings. My objective is killing the enemy not being ready to bail out at any risk. Tier 1 BS are cheap enough so you can focus only on staying power and killing the enemy.
team play is not about levelign everyone on the common denominator, is everybody workign in a way to reach the highest potential on gang and among individuals.
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Marn Prestoc
Minmatar
Queens of the Stone Age
Rote Kapelle
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Posted - 2009.03.23 18:44:00 -
[1190]
Edited by: Marn Prestoc on 23/03/2009 18:44:51
Originally by: Seishi Maru
The objective is ok but the conception about its execution is not. Theory and rpactice have subltle differences, mostly tied to the nature of human brain. .... Takes 11 seconds for an abaddon (just an example) lock an armageddon using AB and 3 seconds to lock an armageddon with MWD. That while we are speaking of a RR BS gang. With overheat can reach 450 ms. Will be in RR range of anyone at the gate when I am finally locked when I can be webbed. That IF i am the first to be locked.... because the MWD ships will have already been locked and natural behavior is throw yoru tackle on first thing you lock. I try this for months.. works wonders... Also take into account the fact you are carried by inertia etc.. and things are not that worse than with an MWD. With an MWD you are 100% sure you gonna hit the gate. But I have been using AB on such situations for like.. 10 or more months and am yet to loose a ship because of it. So I prefer a geddon with Heavier guns and heavier tank but with AB than a MWD one with crappy fittings. My objective is killing the enemy not being ready to bail out at any risk. Tier 1 BS are cheap enough so you can focus only on staying power and killing the enemy.
team play is not about levelign everyone on the common denominator, is everybody workign in a way to reach the highest potential on gang and among individuals.
Sounds interesting, my point being don't expect others to use a MWD when your using a AB.
Chances are in the 20-30 seconds to get into range of each other (before hitting the gate) then waiting for the RR to cycle will put that first target at serious risk. Also remember whilst everyone is MWD'ing so quicker for the enemy to target, its also quicker for you to target so can get reps on them sooner. Really it depends on gang sizes, and is just theorising. Do we agree though that its more reasonable for everyone to use nothing, everyone to use AB or everyone to use MWD than everyone doing there own thing?
-
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Childstar
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Posted - 2009.03.23 18:51:00 -
[1191]
Edited by: Childstar on 23/03/2009 18:54:32
While the stats and figures were put together in a way that seemed a 1 v 1 fight the point of the post was to illustrate that:
1. The so called "omni tank" that is supposed to (according to gourmie and others) give blasters a 35% dmg advantage in blaster optimal over lasers does not exist when available ships are used and properly/standardly fitted.
2. To do this i initially put a T2 and best named fitted abaddon with 1 RR and 7 guns along with its normal/available tank and dmg mod fit a VS a T2 and best named fitted mega with 1 RR and 7 guns that had its normal/available tank and dmg mods fitted.
It was not done to show that the abaddon could beat the mega in a 1 v 1 fight or anything like that, it was done to show just how few BS conform and actually fit this mythical "35% more blaster dmg than lasers omni tank".
I honestly thought that the mega would be doing slightly more dmg against the abaddon than the abaddon would do against the mega and was very supprised when it turned out that the higher DPS after resists was being done by the abaddon in both cases.
Not only that but after reading the other RR fits people use like the phoon ect that also have higher resists against kinetic and thermal than they do EM thermal its clear that the idea that this "35% omni tank" does not exist as far as regular available fits for armour tanking BS is concerned, or at least as far as the sort of fits ppl actually use on armour tanking BS.
So it seems that the tank ppl refer to as the "omni tank" and how it supposedly borks laser dmg while being blaster friendly is not as widespread, good or as used as the ppl would have us believe.
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Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Blackguard Coalition
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Posted - 2009.03.23 19:08:00 -
[1192]
Originally by: irion felpamy
Originally by: Childstar
...RR Abaddon vs RR Mega
You are assuming they are both firing at eachother, in reality they would both be victimising some poor bastard in a tempest.
rofl... I laughed. More than once.
-Liang
--
Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
www.kwikdeath.org |
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Blackguard Coalition
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Posted - 2009.03.23 19:12:00 -
[1193]
Originally by: Childstar
So it seems that the tank ppl refer to as the "omni tank" and how it supposedly borks laser dmg while being blaster friendly is not as widespread, good or as used as the ppl would have us believe.
While not wanting to enter this fight on either side, I will say that CCP specifically nerfed the omnitank's effect on EM damage. EM damage has been a very reasonable damage type for a very long time now.
Ok, continue forum warrior'ing.
-Liang
--
Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
www.kwikdeath.org |
Childstar
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Posted - 2009.03.23 19:30:00 -
[1194]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: Childstar
So it seems that the tank ppl refer to as the "omni tank" and how it supposedly borks laser dmg while being blaster friendly is not as widespread, good or as used as the ppl would have us believe.
While not wanting to enter this fight on either side, I will say that CCP specifically nerfed the omnitank's effect on EM damage. EM damage has been a very reasonable damage type for a very long time now.
Ok, continue forum warrior'ing.
-Liang
It needed to be pointed out clearly as gourmie and his cohorts have a tendancy to include the drone DMG that is all thermal when deducting for EM as well as using levels of EM resists that ships do not fit.
And best of all ignoring that a amarr BS and others that are regularly fitted and flown have higher resists against kinetic and thermal than they give them credit for and in some cases higher than em and therm.
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Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
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Posted - 2009.03.23 20:01:00 -
[1195]
Originally by: ChalSto
Originally by: Electric Universe
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: Electric Universe
Can i ask why you are comparing Blaster Mega at 4.5 km and then compare a Laser Abaddon at 15 km.
Hey smartpants. Compare 4.5 km to 4.5 km.
Im not,
The blaster ship only has a optimal of 0-4.5km at its max available damage.
While the laser ship has a 0-15km optimal at its max available damage.
Is this the best you can do?....
But then we can for sure say that your doing things here terribly wrong.
Good work for showing that you can't do the right math and do the right things when it's about comparing ships etc.
His math is right; its a realistic combat scenario and the outcome reflects current TQ game-mechanics and situations. The Baddon wins here....hands down and nothing to add or to critizise.
Yes his math is right at 15 km.
But try to fit an Abaddon with 1 HS II and a Megathron with 1x MFS II and compare them both at 4.5 km, who wins that again?.
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Trader20
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Posted - 2009.03.23 20:26:00 -
[1196]
Edited by: Trader20 on 23/03/2009 20:33:24
Awsome job on that info Childstar, you got me thinkin that blasters do need lookin at. But you are camparing Teir 2 and 3 ships but I have a feeling the hype wouldn't do any better .
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Childstar
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Posted - 2009.03.23 20:27:00 -
[1197]
Originally by: Electric Universe
Yes his math is right at 15 km.
But try to fit an Abaddon with 1 HS II and a Megathron with 1x MFS II and compare them both at 4.5 km, who wins that again?.
The math is right at 4.5km and the fits used are those available and used by the ships in question on TQ.
Originally by: Electric Universe
Childstar doesn't want to admit it that a Megathron inside the remote rep range is just extremely powerfull. So he have to use examples with an Abaddon with 3x HS II against a 2 MFS II fitted Mega at 15 km, just to prove that the Abaddon outdamage the Mega by some few DPS at 15 km lol.
THE EXAMPLE IS AT 4.5KM AND THE FITS USED ARE THOSE AVAILABLE AND USED BY THE SHIPS IN QUESTION ON TQ.
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Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
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Posted - 2009.03.23 20:33:00 -
[1198]
Edited by: Electric Universe on 23/03/2009 20:35:24
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: Electric Universe
Yes his math is right at 15 km.
But try to fit an Abaddon with 1 HS II and a Megathron with 1x MFS II and compare them both at 4.5 km, who wins that again?.
The math is right at 4.5km and the fits used are those available and used by the ships in question on TQ.
Originally by: Electric Universe
Childstar doesn't want to admit it that a Megathron inside the remote rep range is just extremely powerfull. So he have to use examples with an Abaddon with 3x HS II against a 2 MFS II fitted Mega at 15 km, just to prove that the Abaddon outdamage the Mega by some few DPS at 15 km lol.
THE EXAMPLE IS AT 4.5KM AND THE FITS USED ARE THOSE AVAILABLE AND USED BY THE SHIPS IN QUESTION ON TQ.
Use 1 HS II on the Abaddon and one MFS II on a Mega, then take with the drones DPS, and then do the mats on how the DPS is at 4.5 km.
It's not really worth to compare a 3 HS II fitted Abaddon to a 2x MFS II fitted Mega. It's better to use 1 damage mod on both, because both ships have the same amount of low slots.
Because using 3x HS II on an Abaddon is going to waste ALOT of your EHP bonus. Use the EHP so you can get an advantage with it.
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Goumindong
Amarr
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.03.23 20:35:00 -
[1199]
Originally by: Childstar
Ok its ownage time...
I am sorry, what is your fit again?
(I.E. how much armor do you have to chew through, because that matters)
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Childstar
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Posted - 2009.03.23 20:35:00 -
[1200]
Originally by: Marn Prestoc
Ok RR gang, just looking at Aba, Geddon and Mega.
RR Tank/Damage
RR Tank/Damage 2
till 25km+
Ok i have looked over these graphs and TBH i think they are a rather unrealistic.
Firstly the 2 x eanm tank + DCU you act like everybody will be shooting at is only actually used on the RR hyperion.
The mega cannot fit it due to CPU issues, the domi and phoon fit shown on here used a mix of active hardeners ect for a much better over all result and the abaddon that also fits it gets a bonus to its armour resists per level.
I think you should update the graphs in regards to reasonably available fits for the BS in question including how they would operate in a gang vs gang scenario where multiple racial RR BS are shooting at each other while buddies will be RRing them.
You should include the RR ships actual available/normal fits and the resistances each ship actually gets.
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Goumindong
Amarr
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.03.23 20:41:00 -
[1201]
Originally by: Childstar
Ok its ownage time...
I am sorry, what is your fit again?
(I.E. how much armor do you have to chew through, because that matters)
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Malcanis
R.E.C.O.N.
Dara Cothrom
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Posted - 2009.03.23 20:44:00 -
[1202]
Just to add that I have a genuine Gist B-Type MWD which will be awarded to the page 50 sniper.
NB: NightmareX and alts, and CCP employees are excluded from this offer.
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Goumindong
Amarr
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.03.23 20:44:00 -
[1203]
Originally by: Childstar
Ok its ownage time...
I am sorry, what is your fit again?
(I.E. how much armor do you have to chew through, because that matters)
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Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Blackguard Coalition
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Posted - 2009.03.23 20:50:00 -
[1204]
Originally by: Malcanis
Just to add that I have a genuine Gist B-Type MWD which will be awarded to the page 50 sniper.
NB: NightmareX and alts, and CCP employees are excluded from this offer.
That's rather too easy. I'll setup a cron job to make the appropriate post. :p
-Liang
--
Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
www.kwikdeath.org |
Childstar
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Posted - 2009.03.23 20:56:00 -
[1205]
Originally by: Electric Universe
Use 1 HS II on the Abaddon and one MFS II on a Mega, then take with the drones DPS, and then do the maths on how the DPS is at 4.5 km.
Why would anybody wish to gimp the abaddons DMG by only fitting 1 HS when they do not need to?. The abaddon has great armour resists over the entire spectrum with 3 dmg mods, plenty of armour for it to soak up damage while being RR'd.
Oh and before i forget it does not have a dirty great hole in its armours explosive resistance like the MEGA does so its actually properly tanked for RR gang combat against ALL races of ships and damage types.
Just because the mega has fitting issues as well as being poor in actual gang combat where ALL dmg types will be used no reason to fit the abaddon badly and make you feel better and it look better than it actually is.
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Childstar
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Posted - 2009.03.23 21:12:00 -
[1206]
Edited by: Childstar on 23/03/2009 21:14:57
Originally by: Goumindong
Originally by: Childstar
Ok its ownage time...
I am sorry, what is your fit again?
(I.E. how much armor do you have to chew through, because that matters)
Why are you going to move the goal posts again?.
You tried to include the dmg from thermal drones in you EM % reduction figures.
FAILED.
You tried to include the thermal dmg from the guns in your EM % reduction figures.
FAILED.
You tried to convince ppl that the standard fit for RR BS is a 2 x eanm and DCU giving RR ships high laser resistances compared to blasters.
FAILED. The only RR ship fits posted on here that can or do actually fit that are the hyperion fit and the abaddon. The rest posted on here have better thermal and kinetic resists.
The abaddon has great resists accross the board a good armour buffer for RR and it does NOT have a dirty great hole in its armours explosive resistance so its good at actual multi racial RR PVP instead of being gimped.
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Malcanis
R.E.C.O.N.
Dara Cothrom
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Posted - 2009.03.23 21:25:00 -
[1207]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: Malcanis
Just to add that I have a genuine Gist B-Type MWD which will be awarded to the page 50 sniper.
NB: NightmareX and alts, and CCP employees are excluded from this offer.
That's rather too easy. I'll setup a cron job to make the appropriate post. :p
-Liang
The fabulous prize on offer is well worth the effort.
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Childstar
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Posted - 2009.03.23 22:03:00 -
[1208]
Edited by: Childstar on 23/03/2009 22:06:13
Oh and for anybody who is interested when one of the few ships that actually can like the HYPERION does fit the all singing all dancing full bells and whistles "2 x eanm and DCU omni tank" that is supposed to drive laser ships from the skies in terror with its "35% more resists vs lasers" it gets:
With its standard single or twin RR fit the HYPERION actually only gets LESS THAN 5% MORE dmg at its 4.5km optimal vs the equivalant single or dual RR abaddon fit.
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Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
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Posted - 2009.03.23 22:04:00 -
[1209]
Edited by: Electric Universe on 23/03/2009 22:05:23
Originally by: Childstar
Edited by: Childstar on 23/03/2009 21:07:50
Originally by: Electric Universe
Use 1 HS II on the Abaddon and one MFS II on a Mega, then take with the drones DPS, and then do the maths on how the DPS is at 4.5 km.
Why would anybody wish to gimp the abaddons DMG by only fitting 1 HS when they do not need to?. The abaddon has great armour resists over the entire spectrum with 3 dmg mods, plenty of armour for it to soak up damage while being RR'd.
Oh and before i forget it does not have a dirty great hole in its armours explosive resistance like the MEGA does so its actually properly tanked for RR gang combat against ALL races of ships and damage types.
Just because the mega has fitting issues as well as being poor in actual gang combat where ALL dmg types will be used is no reason to fit the abaddon badly and make you feel better and the mega look better than it actually is.
LOLOLOL, this is just getting better and better for every of you replies.
Talk aboout someone that doesn't have a clue about comparing things and about gang PVP. I'm lolling again.
Just to say it. You either gimp your DPS or you are gimping your EHP advantage.
Choose what you want to have as advantage?.
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Childstar
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Posted - 2009.03.23 22:17:00 -
[1210]
Originally by: Electric Universe
Edited by: Electric Universe on 23/03/2009 22:05:23
Originally by: Childstar
Edited by: Childstar on 23/03/2009 21:07:50
Originally by: Electric Universe
Use 1 HS II on the Abaddon and one MFS II on a Mega, then take with the drones DPS, and then do the maths on how the DPS is at 4.5 km.
Why would anybody wish to gimp the abaddons DMG by only fitting 1 HS when they do not need to?. The abaddon has great armour resists over the entire spectrum with 3 dmg mods, plenty of armour for it to soak up damage while being RR'd.
Oh and before i forget it does not have a dirty great hole in its armours explosive resistance like the MEGA does so its actually properly tanked for RR gang combat against ALL races of ships and damage types.
Just because the mega has fitting issues as well as being poor in actual gang combat where ALL dmg types will be used is no reason to fit the abaddon badly and make you feel better and the mega look better than it actually is.
LOLOLOL, this is just getting better and better for every of you replies.
Talk aboout someone that doesn't have a clue about comparing things and about gang PVP. I'm lolling again.
Just to say it. You either gimp your DPS or you are gimping your EHP advantage.
Choose what you want to have as advantage?.
Why do you keep telling ppl they have no clue about gang pvp when you could not even fit a mega or a hyperion for it yesterday...
It does not gimp its EHP by fitting 3 HS.
3x HS RR abaddon = 81.3em, 75.7th, 71.9ki, 70.1ex resists with 134,371EHP.
Great coverage vs ALL DMG types so it is well suited for actual RR pvp against ALL races and weapons that hit it.
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Mila Prestoc
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Posted - 2009.03.23 22:18:00 -
[1211]
Originally by: Childstar
Edited by: Childstar on 23/03/2009 21:23:14
Originally by: Marn Prestoc
Ok RR gang, just looking at Aba, Geddon and Mega.
RR Tank/Damage
RR Tank/Damage 2
till 25km+
Ok i have looked over these graphs and TBH i think they are a rather unrealistic.
Firstly the 2 x eanm tank + DCU you act like everybody will be shooting at is only actually used on the RR hyperion.
The mega cannot fit it due to CPU issues, the domi and phoon fit shown on here used a mix of active hardeners ect for a much better over all result and the abaddon that also fits it gets a bonus to its armour resists per level.
I think you should update the graphs in regards to reasonably available fits for the BS in question including how they would operate in a gang vs gang scenario where multiple racial RR BS are shooting at each other while buddies will be RRing them.
You should include the RR ships actual available/normal fits and the resistances each ship actually gets as well as realistic DPS from the amount of dmg mods guns they would have fitted.
Your arguement about being unrealistic is about ANP vs EANM? They are both OMNI resistance mods with 5% difference before stacking penalties. If we say all but Domi and Typhoon typically OMNI tank we would agree? With Domi and Typhoon being a pilots choice really, some like a extra plate due to being tier 1 and low raw HP (6k typhoon vs 10k abaddon), same choice of damage mods since not a large effect due to weapon systems. These exact numbers were used and accepted by "boost blaster" posters in other topics so just shows you can't make everyone happy. Would take millions of examples to make everyone happy, because someone would always have an issue with the setups used, be it the damage dealer or the tank shot at. Nothing on paper is 100% accurate, but I was as realistic as possible to show TRENDS. The difference between using a ANP or EANM wouldn't change the trend, just the specific numbers, and I don't think doing 300 dps after res or 280 dps after res will make people go "oh that needs a boost".
As far as showing people being RRed, you know thats impossible, that would require a specific situation with numbers of people on both sides to calculate the damage done vs repaired. I provided the RANGE in which the possible damage done by each ship would be, between Tank 1 and Tank 2. The average ship resistance (tank 1) and the armour resistance (tank 2), the more repping hence longer in armour then the more towards tank 2 the damage output becomes.
I will agree, this is the worst case scenario for lasors, but it is also most common when talking about BS tanks. Omni tanking is most common and the difference between a ANP and EANM is not going to change the trends shown.
What trend is shown? In a RR gang within 10km against OMNI resistance BS's, a Mega's Blasters are the highest damage dealing weapon. Lasors only have the same level of advantage after 25km, with the 10km <-> 20km range being quite even.
-------------------------
Originally by: "Lord Violent"
EvE is slowly becoming a game for the stupid, catered to by devs as they lack ability to kill/survive anything.
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Kagura Nikon
Minmatar
M. Corp
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Posted - 2009.03.23 22:39:00 -
[1212]
Originally by: Mila Prestoc
Your arguement about being unrealistic is about ANP vs EANM? They are both OMNI resistance mods with 5% difference before stacking penalties. If we say all but Domi and Typhoon typically OMNI tank we would agree? With Domi and Typhoon being a pilots choice really, some like a extra plate due to being tier 1 and low raw HP (6k typhoon vs 10k abaddon), same choice of damage mods since not a large effect due to weapon systems. These exact numbers were used and accepted by "boost blaster" posters in other topics so just shows you can't make everyone happy. Would take millions of examples to make everyone happy, because someone would always have an issue with the setups used, be it the damage dealer or the tank shot at. Nothing on paper is 100% accurate, but I was as realistic as possible to show TRENDS. The difference between using a ANP or EANM wouldn't change the trend, just the specific numbers, and I don't think doing 300 dps after res or 280 dps after res will make people go "oh that needs a boost".
As far as showing people being RRed, you know thats impossible, that would require a specific situation with numbers of people on both sides to calculate the damage done vs repaired. I provided the RANGE in which the possible damage done by each ship would be, between Tank 1 and Tank 2. The average ship resistance (tank 1) and the armour resistance (tank 2), the more repping hence longer in armour then the more towards tank 2 the damage output becomes.
I will agree, this is the worst case scenario for lasors, but it is also most common when talking about BS tanks. Omni tanking is most common and the difference between a ANP and EANM is not going to change the trends shown.
What trend is shown? In a RR gang within 10km against OMNI resistance BS's, a Mega's Blasters are the highest damage dealing weapon. Lasors only have the same level of advantage after 25km, with the 10km <-> 20km range being quite even.
In fact on that scenario the highest damage ships will be typhoons and tempests.Take a classical 1 DC 2 EANM on a raceless ship (not countign any race specific extra resistances to give a generic view).
Tempest with 1 siege 1 RR 6 800 MM and 2 damage mods would deal 358 damage after resists WITHOUT DRONES!
-------------------------------------------------
If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
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Childstar
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Posted - 2009.03.23 22:43:00 -
[1213]
Originally by: Mila Prestoc
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: Marn Prestoc
Ok RR gang, just looking at Aba, Geddon and Mega.
RR Tank/Damage
RR Tank/Damage 2
till 25km+
Ok i have looked over these graphs and TBH i think they are a rather unrealistic.
Firstly the 2 x eanm tank + DCU you act like everybody will be shooting at is only actually used on the RR hyperion.
The mega cannot fit it due to CPU issues, the domi and phoon fit shown on here used a mix of active hardeners ect for a much better over all result and the abaddon that also fits it gets a bonus to its armour resists per level.
I think you should update the graphs in regards to reasonably available fits for the BS in question including how they would operate in a gang vs gang scenario where multiple racial RR BS are shooting at each other while buddies will be RRing them.
You should include the RR ships actual available/normal fits and the resistances each ship actually gets as well as realistic DPS from the amount of dmg mods guns they would have fitted.
Your arguement about being unrealistic is about ANP vs EANM?
No my argument is about such a generalization being used when only one unresistance bonused RR BS regularly fits it.
And the numbers given were not these the numbers given were "Blaster get 35% more DMG in optimal than lasers vs OMNI TANKS".
It also convieniently ignores the fact that the fit leaves a large explosive hole in most tanks and that is why that all but the hyperion and mega that cannot do anything about it and the abaddon that does not need to because of its bonus choose other styles of omni tank that actually have therm and kinetic as the highest resist and good ex and em.
Originally by: Mila Prestoc
The difference between using a ANP or EANM wouldn't change the trend, just the specific numbers, and I don't think doing 300 dps after res or 280 dps after res will make people go "oh that needs a boost".
Maybe you should read this and other threads as in reality 7% or so more or less dps after resists are taken into account along with other things are what this thread is all about.
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Seishomaru
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Posted - 2009.03.23 22:44:00 -
[1214]
Originally by: Electric Universe
Edited by: Electric Universe on 23/03/2009 22:16:04
Originally by: Childstar
Edited by: Childstar on 23/03/2009 21:07:50
Originally by: Electric Universe
Use 1 HS II on the Abaddon and one MFS II on a Mega, then take with the drones DPS, and then do the maths on how the DPS is at 4.5 km.
Why would anybody wish to gimp the abaddons DMG by only fitting 1 HS when they do not need to?. The abaddon has great armour resists over the entire spectrum with 3 dmg mods, plenty of armour for it to soak up damage while being RR'd.
Oh and before i forget it does not have a dirty great hole in its armours explosive resistance like the MEGA does so its actually properly tanked for RR gang combat against ALL races of ships and damage types.
Just because the mega has fitting issues as well as being poor in actual gang combat where ALL dmg types will be used is no reason to fit the abaddon badly and make you feel better and the mega look better than it actually is.
LOLOLOL, this is just getting better and better for every of you replies.
Talk about someone that doesn't have a clue about comparing things and about gang PVP. I'm lolling again.
Just to say it. You either gimp your DPS or you are gimping your EHP advantage.
Or you will either have around the same DPS as the Mega but with gimped EHP advantage, or you will have the good EHP advantage but with much lower DPS than the Mega.
Choose what you want to have as advantage?.
Either you fit one more damage mod than the Mega so you can have around the same DPS as the Mega, but then the Mega can use one more 1600mm plate instead to make it up to your EHP on the Abaddon because the Mega uses 2 damage mods in your comparsion.
Or you are fitting 2 damage mods on the Abaddon with the same amount of plates as the Mega have to make your EHP bonus to take place.
So at end the ships are more or less balanced DPS wise and HP wise. But abaddon remains with the range advantage and better resists (matter more than EHP when being repaired), also the ship of course being more expensive ship. Don 't see anything wrong there.. but a slight advantage for the ammarian ship.
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Ephemeron
North Eastern Swat
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.03.23 22:47:00 -
[1215]
It should be repeated:
pure damage advantage of blasters over mega pulse is 16.7%
That 16.7% damage advantage is not worth the different in optimal: 4.5km for blasters and 15km for mega pulse.
When you consider the volume of optimal range - sphere in influence, the ratio by which mega pulse have more influence is
15^3 * 4.1888 = 14137.2
4.5^3* 4.1888 = 381.7044
14137.2 / 381.7044 = 37
37 times more influence by volume - that is a pretty large difference, it signifies the versatility of a weapon - the more range it has, the more situations it can be used in. The vast majority of short range pvp fall under 20 km bracket. This 20 km number comes mostly from 2 things: the jump in radius from a gate and warp disruptor radius.
Of course, if we take falloff into account, then the influence ratio starts looking much better for blasters - tho still clearly inferior to pulse laser.
I could see how a 30% raw damage advantage could justify the greatly reduced versatility of blasters, I suppose even 25% would be pretty good. But if I can increase my optimal from 4.5 to 15 km at expense of just 16.7% damage - it'd be pretty dumb not to.
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Kagura Nikon
Minmatar
M. Corp
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Posted - 2009.03.23 22:51:00 -
[1216]
Edited by: Kagura Nikon on 23/03/2009 22:52:31
Originally by: Ephemeron
It should be repeated:
pure damage advantage of blasters over mega pulse is 16.7%
That 16.7% damage advantage is not worth the different in optimal: 4.5km for blasters and 15km for mega pulse.
When you consider the volume of optimal range - sphere in influence, the ratio by which mega pulse have more influence is
15^3 * 4.1888 = 14137.2
4.5^3* 4.1888 = 381.7044
14137.2 / 381.7044 = 37
37 times more influence by volume - that is a pretty large difference, it signifies the versatility of a weapon - the more range it has, the more situations it can be used in. The vast majority of short range pvp fall under 20 km bracket. This 20 km number comes mostly from 2 things: the jump in radius from a gate and warp disruptor radius.
Of course, if we take falloff into account, then the influence ratio starts looking much better for blasters - tho still clearly inferior to pulse laser.
I could see how a 30% raw damage advantage could justify the greatly reduced versatility of blasters, I suppose even 25% would be pretty good. But if I can increase my optimal from 4.5 to 15 km at expense of just 16.7% damage - it'd be pretty dumb not to.
well but you are smart enough to know you cannot use that ratio number alone to measure stuff, otherwise 425mm raisl woudl be the best weapon ever :P
The balance between range and power is not linear, and very dependent on scenario. And exagerating it does nto yield the best results. The proof is the apocalypse. It has even better ratio of influence against a mega than an abaddon has. But what ship is selected in a normal pulse laser role? Not the APOC. The range is a great advantage but cannot be looked linearly, because there is a lot of times they mean very little (while other times they mean everything)
-------------------------------------------------
If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
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Childstar
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Posted - 2009.03.23 22:59:00 -
[1217]
Originally by: Ephemeron
It should be repeated:
pure damage advantage of blasters over mega pulse is 16.7%
That 16.7% damage advantage is not worth the different in optimal: 4.5km for blasters and 15km for mega pulse.
While i agree its not enough you need to factor in the availability of fittings and the abilities of the available ships for these systems.
For instance if all BS blaster ships can only fit a realistic max of 2 DMG mods due to CPU and tank/mid slot requirements(and that is quite accurate tbh) that 16.7% is suddenly a 0 or minus number when compared with a race that has a ship that can easily accomodate 3 dmg mods and a simular or even better tank.
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Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
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Posted - 2009.03.23 23:01:00 -
[1218]
Edited by: Electric Universe on 23/03/2009 23:03:01
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: Electric Universe
Edited by: Electric Universe on 23/03/2009 22:05:23
Originally by: Childstar
Edited by: Childstar on 23/03/2009 21:07:50
Originally by: Electric Universe
Use 1 HS II on the Abaddon and one MFS II on a Mega, then take with the drones DPS, and then do the maths on how the DPS is at 4.5 km.
Why would anybody wish to gimp the abaddons DMG by only fitting 1 HS when they do not need to?. The abaddon has great armour resists over the entire spectrum with 3 dmg mods, plenty of armour for it to soak up damage while being RR'd.
Oh and before i forget it does not have a dirty great hole in its armours explosive resistance like the MEGA does so its actually properly tanked for RR gang combat against ALL races of ships and damage types.
Just because the mega has fitting issues as well as being poor in actual gang combat where ALL dmg types will be used is no reason to fit the abaddon badly and make you feel better and the mega look better than it actually is.
LOLOLOL, this is just getting better and better for every of you replies.
Talk aboout someone that doesn't have a clue about comparing things and about gang PVP. I'm lolling again.
Just to say it. You either gimp your DPS or you are gimping your EHP advantage.
Choose what you want to have as advantage?.
Why do you keep telling ppl they have no clue about gang pvp when you could not even fit a mega or a hyperion for it yesterday...
It does not gimp its EHP by fitting 3 HS.
3x HS RR abaddon = 81.3em, 75.7th, 71.9ki, 70.1ex resists with 134,371EHP.
Great coverage vs ALL DMG types so it is well suited for actual RR pvp against ALL races and weapons that hit it.
The only reason i did not find a setup to the Megathron so it could compare to the tripple HS II fitted Abaddon was ONLY because you was EFTing just to find a setup that an Abaddon could fit while the Mega couldn't fit the same type of modules. Your comparing a tier 3 ship to a tier 2 ship though.
Just remember that the Abaddon both have more CPU and more powergrid than the Mega.
So either compare with a setup that both ships can fit without any problems and with the same med and low slot. So we can see the real stats on the ships.
But you are just comparing a tripple HS II fitted Abaddon to the 2x MFS II fitted Mega ONLY to prove that the Abaddon have around the same DPS and around the same EHP as the Mega.
So in this case you either have to choose if you want to take use of the extra EHP the Abaddon gets for the extra 25% resist bonus it have, or you have to gimp the EHP for more DPS so it can compare to the DPS a mega have.
That's why it's stupid.
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Ephemeron
North Eastern Swat
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.03.23 23:13:00 -
[1219]
Kagura Nikon, I was specifically referring to short range weapons and engagements
If 99% of fights happen in 40km radius, getting weapon that has more than 40km radius is not going to be worth sacrificing any damage.
In my experience, small gang warfare fights that result in kills have this kind of distribution:
0-5 km: 10%
5-10 km: 25%
10-15 km: 30%
15-20 km: 25%
20+ km: 10%
this is a very rough estimate, but if you have experience, you will agree that it is something along those lines. Having good damage output at 15km is about the most valuable asset in combat.
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Childstar
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Posted - 2009.03.23 23:16:00 -
[1220]
Originally by: Electric Universe
The only reason i did not find a setup to the Megathron so it could compare to the tripple HS II fitted Abaddon was ONLY because you was EFTing just to find a setup that an Abaddon could fit while the Abaddon could fit. Your comparing a tier 3 ship to a tier 2 ship though.
Just remember that the Abaddon both have more CPU and more powergrid than the Mega.
So either compare with a setup that both ships can fit without any problems and with the same med and low slot. So we can see the real stats on the ships.
I know what the ships have, i know what tier they are and i know that the abaddon has more CPU and PG.
I also know that it is a AVAILABLE ship for a amarr pilot to fly and fit and it is the one i have chosen because it is the most in the effective RR ship in the amarr fleet fitted as i have done it.
Its EHP is fine if not better compared to the megas because it does not have a 47.8% hole in its explosive resists like the mega does.
So in actual RR gang combat the abaddon is going to tank a gang of multiple race ships much easier than the mega, especially as the missile ships will always have explosive loaded and the mini ships guns do mostly explosive dmg as well.
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Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Blackguard Coalition
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Posted - 2009.03.23 23:22:00 -
[1221]
Edited by: Liang Nuren on 23/03/2009 23:22:58
Originally by: Kagura Nikon
Originally by: Ephemeron
Kagura Nikon, I was specifically referring to short range weapons and engagements
If 99% of fights happen in 40km radius, getting weapon that has more than 40km radius is not going to be worth sacrificing any damage.
In my experience, small gang warfare fights that result in kills have this kind of distribution:
0-5 km: 10%
5-10 km: 25%
10-15 km: 30%
15-20 km: 25%
20+ km: 10%
this is a very rough estimate, but if you have experience, you will agree that it is something along those lines. Having good damage output at 15km is about the most valuable asset in combat.
Yes, pretty much reasonable values. What i wanted to point is that the coverage factor you used cannot be looked as a lonely number. You must be aware that in a lot of scenarios it will be helping you in almost nothing. So the whole number crunshing must be taken with a grain of salt from both sides.
That's true, but if the Mega only has an advantage in < 5km ranges, then it has the advantage 10% of the time to the Abaddon's 90% of the time. Just sayin'.
I'm also dubious to the assumption that the mega and abaddon rr gangs are intertwined ... in my experience this doesn't happen all that often, and the ability to shoot futher than 10km is something essential. But then again, I haven't read the whole thread (or even a noticeable percentage of it).
-Liang
Ed: Page 40 Synpa! Only 10 more to go!
--
Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
www.kwikdeath.org |
Kagura Nikon
Minmatar
M. Corp
|
Posted - 2009.03.23 23:27:00 -
[1222]
Maybe its not that simple. Now compare the speed difference between abaddon and mega. Mega is quite faster. So fight will usually end at megatron best range. The question remains, can he close up fast enough to compensate abaddon advantage at medium range? That is a pretty complicated calculation in fact.
-------------------------------------------------
If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
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Childstar
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Posted - 2009.03.23 23:40:00 -
[1223]
Edited by: Childstar on 23/03/2009 23:45:45
Originally by: Kagura Nikon
Maybe its not that simple. Now compare the speed difference between abaddon and mega. Mega is quite faster. So fight will usually end at megatron best range. The question remains, can he close up fast enough to compensate abaddon advantage at medium range? That is a pretty complicated calculation in fact.
In a gang fight EVERY MEGA would need to burn towards EVERY primary target and get within 4.5km as soon that target became primary and do so as quickly as possable, as every volley the megas fire outside 4.5km they are getting reduced DPS and the farther out from 4.5km they are the greater reduction is.
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Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Blackguard Coalition
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Posted - 2009.03.23 23:50:00 -
[1224]
Originally by: Kagura Nikon
Maybe its not that simple. Now compare the speed difference between abaddon and mega. Mega is quite faster. So fight will usually end at megatron best range. The question remains, can he close up fast enough to compensate abaddon advantage at medium range? That is a pretty complicated calculation in fact.
Well that kind of thinking only holds up in a 1v1 .... in a fleet, the answer is quite obviously not in favor of short range. :)
-Liang
--
Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
www.kwikdeath.org |
Kagura Nikon
Minmatar
M. Corp
|
Posted - 2009.03.23 23:52:00 -
[1225]
Originally by: Childstar
Edited by: Childstar on 23/03/2009 23:45:45
Originally by: Kagura Nikon
Maybe its not that simple. Now compare the speed difference between abaddon and mega. Mega is quite faster. So fight will usually end at megatron best range. The question remains, can he close up fast enough to compensate abaddon advantage at medium range? That is a pretty complicated calculation in fact.
In a gang fight EVERY MEGA would need to burn towards EVERY primary target and get within 4.5km as soon that target became primary and do so as quickly as possable, as every volley the megas fire outside 4.5km they are getting reduced DPS and the farther out from 4.5km they are the greater reduction is.
I am just raising the question. You are trying to answer it. And I again say. It s more complicated. each scenario is different. Depend on gang size and deployment. On the 1v1 extreme the mega has advantage.. that drops more and more while the gang size raises. I have few doubts that 50 pulse ships can wipe the floor with 50 blaster ships. Possibly killing half of them even before they have to switch from scorch to MF. But again, that is only 1 of the infinite number of scenarios.
Contrary to Goum, I do believe you must take into account the enemy stupidity. The more time you pass on eve the more you realize how 3/4 of players are not exactly bright. So the best scenario may be wildly different from the worse scenario.
-------------------------------------------------
If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
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Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
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Posted - 2009.03.24 00:00:00 -
[1226]
Edited by: Electric Universe on 24/03/2009 00:05:26
Anyways.
Whatever the stats the Abaddon or the Mega have, it doesn't change the fact that a Blaster Megathrons is used waaaaaaay way more than Abaddons in gangs when it's about RRing.
That fact can't be changed.
Blaster Megathrons are the most popular gank RR gang ship in low sec and empire today. And that's enough to show that Blaster Megas are fine and are working good.
If Abaddons would be so much better, then why is not most of those Blaster pilots in Abaddons then?. They have had years to cross train to Amarr if they wanted to go there. But no, it's not happening as peoples says here.
It doesn't takes years to cross train from Gallente to Amarr anyways.
And why would i train for Amarr when Gallente and Minmatar have the coolest ships and extremely good solo / small & med size gang ships in the game?.
I'm not the person who are looking after the ship with the best stats, just so i can do some e-peen stroking about the ship i have. I'm after the ship that works very good in a RR gang and that are very fun to use.
Amarr is easy mode, and that means booooooooooorrriiiing.
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Childstar
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Posted - 2009.03.24 00:29:00 -
[1227]
Originally by: Kagura Nikon
I am just raising the question. You are trying to answer it. And I again say. It s more complicated. each scenario is different. Depend on gang size and deployment. On the 1v1 extreme the mega has advantage..
Maybe although you must factor the dmg it recieves while approaching and how much it will have left and if it will give it enough time to get through the abaddons tank before it pops.
Then you have tracking ect but a good BS pilot will counter web and burn in a str8 line to reduce that anyway and its not like webbed BS even when comparing the mega and abaddon are exactly nimble.
But thats 1 v 1 crap and not a likely or reaslitic measure anyway.
Originally by: Kagura Nikon
I have few doubts that 50 pulse ships can wipe the floor with 50 blaster ships. Possibly killing half of them even before they have to switch from scorch to MF. But again, that is only 1 of the infinite number of scenarios.
Its all relative to dmg and tank even in a 50 vs 50 racial fight the abaddons do not need to kill close to half on approach to gain a overwhelming advantage.
Firstly depending on the tank fit of the abaddons they can either have a 3% advantage per ship in DPS using MF against AM even at the megas 4.5 optimal and thats after each ships resists have been taken into account and against equal numbers.
Or they can be fitted slightly differantly and have a much larger EHP tank compared to the megas but have 5% per ship less DPS after resists than the megas in the megas 4.5km optimal using MF against AM.
Also again all the megas need to be at 4.5km from each and every primary to be doing their max available DPS.
Also factor in that in a 50 vs 50 fight every ship the abaddons kill on approach is 2% less DPS they are gaurenteed not to ever recieve from the mega gang. So realistically its not like the abaddons need to kill many ships before the abaddons have a large DPS advantage along with their already large EHP advantage.
Those little details is always lost/ignored by the "blasterz iz uber" crowd mostly because they have never flown them and only look at the raw stats of how much dmg 10 or 20 or 50 blaster BS will do.
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Childstar
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Posted - 2009.03.24 00:33:00 -
[1228]
Originally by: Electric Universe
If Abaddons would be so much better, then why is not most of those Blaster pilots in Abaddons then?. They have had years to cross train to Amarr if they wanted to go there. But no, it's not happening as peoples says here.
It doesn't takes years to cross train from Gallente to Amarr anyways.
It has not been years stop lying, and i have only just finished cross training over myself and i had all the tertiary gunnery and PG/CPU ect skills done before i decided to do it.
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Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
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Posted - 2009.03.24 00:46:00 -
[1229]
Edited by: Electric Universe on 24/03/2009 00:46:03
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: Electric Universe
If Abaddons would be so much better, then why is not most of those Blaster pilots in Abaddons then?. They have had years to cross train to Amarr if they wanted to go there. But no, it's not happening as peoples says here.
It doesn't takes years to cross train from Gallente to Amarr anyways.
It has not been years stop lying, and i have only just finished cross training over myself and i had all the tertiary gunnery and PG/CPU ect skills done before i decided to do it.
So tell me exacly how long time it is since the Lasers got the tracking boost?. Also when Lasers got boosted.
It was after that the FOTM warriors started to praise Amarr up to the sky.
Stop lying your self maybe?.
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Mila Prestoc
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Posted - 2009.03.24 01:39:00 -
[1230]
Originally by: Kagura Nikon
Don't agree 1 little bit.
2 Gyros Tempest is not comparable to a 2 MFS Mega. The tanks are widely different (~95k EHP vs ~115k EHP). 1 Gyro Tempest is the equivelent setup to a Mega. You've also used Hail and not mentioned it, which is a huge factor because it turns AC's into worse optimal and falloff than blasters, and worse tracking than lasers. So if anything is going to lose damage due to those factors, the ACs with Hail will do first, losing its damage type advantage.
1 Gyro Tempest (still with Hail) does less damage (~300 vs ~325) than 2 MFS Mega.
No drones were included here or in the graphs, hence the Mega still has a 50m3 drone advantage yet to include for its total damage (since we included seige launcher).
Originally by: Childstar
Did you not read my explanation and list of OMNI tanking ships? More than 1 ship OMNI tanks... to say otherwise is blatent lying. At least put an explanation for no OMNI tanking Mega, Abaddon, Geddon, Tempest, evidence would be amazing to.
I have never brought up that arguement, although looking at the graph the peak difference between geddon and Mega does appear to be about 25%. Between 7 turret Abaddon and Mega about 35%. The range at which the same level of advantage is reversed comes after 20km. Thats about 10km of superiority, 10km of similar levels of performance then the lasers have 20km of superiority, but personally for me superiority in 20-40km is less valuable than 0-10km. But then I use AC's so used to not having superiority at any range :p.
As i've just replied to Kagura above, the best Exp damage dealer does less than the Mega, at less range, with less tracking, unless you fly it like a tin can.
7% more or less dps compared to other ships. But the difference in changing a EANM to ANP increases the DPS of ALL ships shooting the target and not just one.
Originally by: Ephemeron
Depends on the type of gang, BS gangs i'd say its more <15km.
For Recon/Hac gangs I'd say its more 20km+ engagement range, 10-15km you have overloaded webs+WS to avoid. Although you did say kills so 10-15km probably is right since thats where you catch the small ships that stray to close.
The problem with the sphere of influence calculation is because your using volume it really punishes any inaccuracy and the numbers get exponentially larger. You mention taking falloff into account, if you were to say 9km, thats 3053.6352 cubes so Pulse sphere of influence is now only 4.5 times more rather than 37, which is a huge difference.
I place more value on <20km than >20km.
-------------------------
Originally by: "Lord Violent"
EvE is slowly becoming a game for the stupid, catered to by devs as they lack ability to kill/survive anything.
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Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
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Posted - 2009.03.24 02:54:00 -
[1231]
Originally by: Electric Universe
Edited by: Electric Universe on 24/03/2009 00:46:03
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: Electric Universe
If Abaddons would be so much better, then why is not most of those Blaster pilots in Abaddons then?. They have had years to cross train to Amarr if they wanted to go there. But no, it's not happening as peoples says here.
It doesn't takes years to cross train from Gallente to Amarr anyways.
It has not been years stop lying, and i have only just finished cross training over myself and i had all the tertiary gunnery and PG/CPU ect skills done before i decided to do it.
So tell me exacly how long time it is since the Lasers got the tracking boost?. Also when Lasers got boosted.
It was after that the FOTM warriors started to praise Amarr up to the sky.
Quoting my self here because i want an answer on this..
Yes Childstar, i'm waiting on your answer, or did you just see that i was totally right here and then didn't bother to reply?.
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Koloch
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.03.24 03:59:00 -
[1232]
The boost to Amarr tracking happened in RevII mid 2007
http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=474
Amarr FOTM started when kil2's video Armageddon came out - 2008.01.22
So yeah if Blasters really did suck they have had plenty of time to train up another race...
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Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Blackguard Coalition
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Posted - 2009.03.24 04:16:00 -
[1233]
Originally by: Koloch
The boost to Amarr tracking happened in RevII mid 2007
http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=474
Amarr FOTM started when kil2's video Armageddon came out - 2008.01.22
So yeah if Blasters really did suck they have had plenty of time to train up another race...
The amarr fotm started when the EM boost happened.
-Liang
--
Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
www.kwikdeath.org |
Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
|
Posted - 2009.03.24 04:16:00 -
[1234]
Edited by: Electric Universe on 24/03/2009 04:18:18
Originally by: Koloch
The boost to Amarr tracking happened in RevII mid 2007
http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=474
Amarr FOTM started when kil2's video Armageddon came out - 2008.01.22
So yeah if Blasters really did suck they have had plenty of time to train up another race...
Yup.
And thanks for just linking that Dev Blog so everybody can see that.
I was about to look after that Dev Blog, but then you posted it.
Originally by: Liang Nuren
The amarr fotm started when the EM boost happened.
-Liang
Can you find the Dev Blog about that then?.
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Goumindong
Amarr
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.03.24 04:24:00 -
[1235]
Originally by: Childstar
Why are you going to move the goal posts again?.
I am not moving the goalposts, just checking to make sure that the place you kicked from was the place you claimed.
Are you going to answer the question? If I am wrong, there is no harm in it, is there?
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Goumindong
Amarr
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.03.24 04:30:00 -
[1236]
Originally by: Kagura Nikon
Contrary to Goum, I do believe you must take into account the enemy stupidity. The more time you pass on eve the more you realize how 3/4 of players are not exactly bright. So the best scenario may be wildly different from the worse scenario.
Accounting for stupidity will give you optimal solutions when people are both stupid and not stupid. These optimal solutions will gradually be discovered and their use will spread throughout the game, homogenizing it. I do not find that to be conductive to a fun game.
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Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Blackguard Coalition
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Posted - 2009.03.24 04:35:00 -
[1237]
Originally by: Goumindong
Accounting for stupidity will give you optimal solutions when people are both stupid and not stupid. These optimal solutions will gradually be discovered and their use will spread throughout the game, homogenizing it. I do not find that to be conductive to a fun game.
There was an article on artifical stupidity recently... did you read it by chance? Basically, I think you're wrong in this assertion. Take, as an example, chess. It's been around for a Very Long Time Now, and there are well known optimal solutions..... but your average player doesn't use them.
Hell, even your serious player only uses some of them.
-Liang
--
Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
www.kwikdeath.org |
Negerballerjunge
|
Posted - 2009.03.24 04:42:00 -
[1238]
blasters are fine. Don't let the 4.5km optimal scare you. They are the BEST soloing ships still if you use them right. I would say they are the best gate camping ships in the game because as soon as you tackle the target your dishing out way more damage then your amarr counter part. Used to be blaster boats were end all be all (point + web + LOLOL 1000 dps = dead target). Now they just need a wing man (omg novel concept in eve you have to use TEAM WORK).
Whiners on the forums generally speaking sit and complain more then they play the game so dont listen to them they dont know jack
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Koloch
Amarr
|
Posted - 2009.03.24 05:27:00 -
[1239]
Edited by: Koloch on 24/03/2009 05:28:33
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: Koloch
The boost to Amarr tracking happened in RevII mid 2007
http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=474
Amarr FOTM started when kil2's video Armageddon came out - 2008.01.22
So yeah if Blasters really did suck they have had plenty of time to train up another race...
The amarr fotm started when the EM boost happened.
-Liang
...and surprise the em boost sits in the same time frame I posted. tbh I'm sure all three had an influence on the Amarr fotm.
http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=533
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Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Blackguard Coalition
|
Posted - 2009.03.24 05:29:00 -
[1240]
Originally by: Negerballerjunge
blasters are fine. Don't let the 4.5km optimal scare you. They are the BEST soloing ships still if you use them right. I would say they are the best gate camping ships in the game because as soon as you tackle the target your dishing out way more damage then your amarr counter part. Used to be blaster boats were end all be all (point + web + LOLOL 1000 dps = dead target). Now they just need a wing man (omg novel concept in eve you have to use TEAM WORK).
Whiners on the forums generally speaking sit and complain more then they play the game so dont listen to them they dont know jack
Uh, dude, no. Blasters are not better at gatecamps because you're still chugging into range when the first BS went pop.
-Liang
--
Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
www.kwikdeath.org |
|
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Goumindong
Amarr
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.03.24 05:30:00 -
[1241]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
There was an article on artifical stupidity recently... did you read it by chance? Basically, I think you're wrong in this assertion. Take, as an example, chess. It's been around for a Very Long Time Now, and there are well known optimal solutions..... but your average player doesn't use them.
Hell, even your serious player only uses some of them.
-Liang
As much as i enjoy reading various articles. I have a hard time finding them without any direction ;)
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Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Blackguard Coalition
|
Posted - 2009.03.24 05:30:00 -
[1242]
Originally by: Koloch
...and surprise the em boost sits in the same time frame I posted. tbh I'm sure all three had an influence on the Amarr fotm.
http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=533
A PVP video had nothing to do with the Amarr FOTM, and suggesting that it did is projecting.
-Liang
--
Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
www.kwikdeath.org |
Koloch
Amarr
|
Posted - 2009.03.24 06:01:00 -
[1243]
Edited by: Koloch on 24/03/2009 06:02:55
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: Koloch
...and surprise the em boost sits in the same time frame I posted. tbh I'm sure all three had an influence on the Amarr fotm.
http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=533
A PVP video had nothing to do with the Amarr FOTM, and suggesting that it did is projecting.
-Liang
What you don't think people are influenced at all by what they see.
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Bellum Eternus
Gallente
Death of Virtue
|
Posted - 2009.03.24 06:10:00 -
[1244]
Originally by: Electric Universe
Edited by: Electric Universe on 24/03/2009 04:50:50
Anyways.
Whatever the stats the Abaddon or the Mega have, it doesn't change the fact that a Blaster Megathrons is used waaaaaaay way more than Abaddons in gangs when it's about RRing.
That fact can't be changed.
Blaster Megathrons are the most popular gank RR gang ship in low sec and empire today. And that's enough to show that Blaster Megas are fine and are working good.
There must be something that is extremely good with the Blaster Mega when it's so popular.
If Abaddons would be so much better, then why is not most of those Blaster pilots in Abaddons then?. They have had years to cross train to Amarr if they wanted to go there. But no, it's not happening as peoples says here.
It doesn't takes years to cross train from Gallente to Amarr anyways.
And why would i train for Amarr when Gallente and Minmatar have the coolest ships and extremely good solo / small & med size gang ships in the game?.
I'm not the person who are looking after the ship with the best stats, just so i can do some e-peen stroking about the ship i have. I'm after the ship that works very good in a RR gang and that are very fun to use.
Amarr is easy mode, and that means booooooooooorrriiiing.
The above is the worst, most inept argument ever.
I'm absolutely max skilled in large blasters and Blasterthrons. Max implants, the works. I LOVE(ed) flying blaster ships. They were my passion. Now I don't. Why? BECAUSE THEY F#CKING SUCK when compared to ships like the Geddon and Abaddon.
I fly an Abaddon exclusively now, and for RR BS gangs, I fly a Geddon due to it's high slot config and slightly higher DPS than the Abaddon when the Abaddon drops a turret for a remote rep.
So no, blasters are not ok, no Blasterthrons are *not* the most popular RR BS, and no, they are not fine and working good.
You don't know WTF you're talking about. At all. Stop posting.
Bellum Eternus
Inveniam viam aut faciam.
Death of Virtue is Recruiting
|
Tankanaka
|
Posted - 2009.03.24 06:15:00 -
[1245]
Edited by: Tankanaka on 24/03/2009 06:16:10
Originally by: Goumindong
Originally by: Hepren D'narr
I find that sentence quite funny. Even Bellum Eternus thinks blasters require big boost at their DPS.
I find this sentence to be quite funny. Bellum Eternus has been arguing for blaster buffs for as long as he has been playing the game. He has never not supported buffing blasters. He is the quintessential self interested whiner.
this tbh
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Bellum Eternus
Gallente
Death of Virtue
|
Posted - 2009.03.24 06:17:00 -
[1246]
Originally by: Negerballerjunge
blasters are fine. Don't let the 4.5km optimal scare you. They are the BEST soloing ships still if you use them right. I would say they are the best gate camping ships in the game because as soon as you tackle the target your dishing out way more damage then your amarr counter part. Used to be blaster boats were end all be all (point + web + LOLOL 1000 dps = dead target). Now they just need a wing man (omg novel concept in eve you have to use TEAM WORK).
Whiners on the forums generally speaking sit and complain more then they play the game so dont listen to them they dont know jack
Since the agility changes have screwed the concept of solo BS tackling *anything* else in the game and making a second ship a *requirement* for using BS in PVP, there is no point in fitting much in the way of tackle on a BS. Once this issue has been resolved (the issue of making a BS that can actually tackle a target) the Blasterthron, and indeed, any blaster BS, is irrelevant in PVP, as other BS can do the job of DPS/Tank much better than any Blasterthron. This is to include Autocannon Maelstroms, Torp Ravens, Megapulse II Abaddons, Geddons etc.
How can you speak to a Blasterthrons effectiveness or lack there of? Show me your hundreds of kills with Blasterthrons. Or any Blaster BS for that matter. I have literally thousands of kills using blaster ships. How about you?
I don't think you know what the f#ck you're talking about, mostly because you've never used blasters or blaster based ships very much, **if at all**.
I defy you to prove me otherwise.
Bellum Eternus
Inveniam viam aut faciam.
Death of Virtue is Recruiting
|
Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
|
Posted - 2009.03.24 06:30:00 -
[1247]
Edited by: Electric Universe on 24/03/2009 06:31:05
Originally by: Bellum Eternus
Originally by: Electric Universe
Edited by: Electric Universe on 24/03/2009 04:50:50
Anyways.
Whatever the stats the Abaddon or the Mega have, it doesn't change the fact that a Blaster Megathrons is used waaaaaaay way more than Abaddons in gangs when it's about RRing.
That fact can't be changed.
Blaster Megathrons are the most popular gank RR gang ship in low sec and empire today. And that's enough to show that Blaster Megas are fine and are working good.
There must be something that is extremely good with the Blaster Mega when it's so popular.
If Abaddons would be so much better, then why is not most of those Blaster pilots in Abaddons then?. They have had years to cross train to Amarr if they wanted to go there. But no, it's not happening as peoples says here.
It doesn't takes years to cross train from Gallente to Amarr anyways.
And why would i train for Amarr when Gallente and Minmatar have the coolest ships and extremely good solo / small & med size gang ships in the game?.
I'm not the person who are looking after the ship with the best stats, just so i can do some e-peen stroking about the ship i have. I'm after the ship that works very good in a RR gang and that are very fun to use.
Amarr is easy mode, and that means booooooooooorrriiiing.
The above is the worst, most inept argument ever.
I'm absolutely max skilled in large blasters and Blasterthrons. Max implants, the works. I LOVE(ed) flying blaster ships. They were my passion. Now I don't. Why? BECAUSE THEY F#CKING SUCK when compared to ships like the Geddon and Abaddon.
I fly an Abaddon exclusively now, and for RR BS gangs, I fly a Geddon due to it's high slot config and slightly higher DPS than the Abaddon when the Abaddon drops a turret for a remote rep.
So no, blasters are not ok, no Blasterthrons are *not* the most popular RR BS, and no, they are not fine and working good.
You don't know WTF you're talking about. At all. Stop posting.
Go back to your gay Amarr FOTM **** hole. And never get out of there.
Go whine somewhere else. I think some PVP movies in empire and low sec proves you very very wrong.
Just take a look at some of the Blaster Mega movies in 'MyEVE' section.
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Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Blackguard Coalition
|
Posted - 2009.03.24 06:44:00 -
[1248]
Originally by: Electric Universe
So, if you are right as your trying to tell me, then show me some proofs by linking me some movies that have with PVP to do in empire and low sec and that shows many Amarr BS'es in a gang with RR's in a PVP movie. And show me some killboards from some very active corps in empire or low sec that shows that Blaster megas isn't used most.
Comeon, don't dissapoint us now.
Looking around at my current RR BS fleet:
Geddon, Geddon, Geddon, Mega (me), Tempest (me), Phoon, Cerb
Funny fact: the phoon pilot is training up Amarr too! Hmmmm....
-Liang
--
Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
www.kwikdeath.org |
Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
|
Posted - 2009.03.24 06:51:00 -
[1249]
Edited by: Electric Universe on 24/03/2009 06:54:32
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: Electric Universe
So, if you are right as your trying to tell me, then show me some proofs by linking me some movies that have with PVP to do in empire and low sec and that shows many Amarr BS'es in a gang with RR's in a PVP movie. And show me some killboards from some very active corps in empire or low sec that shows that Blaster megas isn't used most.
Comeon, don't dissapoint us now.
Looking around at my current RR BS fleet:
Geddon, Geddon, Geddon, Mega (me), Tempest (me), Phoon, Cerb
Funny fact: the phoon pilot is training up Amarr too! Hmmmm....
-Liang
I'm not saying EVERYONE is using Megathrons in their gangs. I'm just saying overall the Blaster Megas are the most popular gank RR battleship in gangs today in empire and low sec.
And about the Typhoon pilot. It's a good idea to start training a new race when you have done the skilling for one race. Because, if you really want to kick ass in a Typhoon, you need most of the Minmatar skills for using a Typhoon maxed anyways.
But one question. Do you PVP in 0.0 space, low sec or empire?.
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Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
|
Posted - 2009.03.24 07:01:00 -
[1250]
Edited by: Electric Universe on 24/03/2009 07:04:11
Originally by: Bellum Eternus
Rabble rabble rabble with some e-peen stroking on your kills and some more rabble about how big you think you are in EVE, only because you have flown Blaster ships a little
Do i really need to do the e-peen stroking of my kills and experience only to show you that i know that Blaster Megas is the most popular gank RR battleship ingame?.
I don't need to post any of my kills when some other killboards already shows that the Blaster Megathron is the most popular gank RR battleship in EVE now. And the same with some PVP movies.
It's not hard to LOOK a little around to find facts dude.
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Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Blackguard Coalition
|
Posted - 2009.03.24 07:01:00 -
[1251]
Originally by: Electric Universe
I'm not saying EVERYONE is using Megathrons in their gangs. I'm just saying overall the Blaster Megas are the most popular gank RR battleship in gangs today in empire and low sec.
And about the Typhoon pilot. It's a good idea to start training a new race when you have done the skilling for one race. Because, if you really want to kick ass in a Typhoon, you need most of the Minmatar skills for using a Typhoon maxed anyways.
But one question. Do you PVP in 0.0 space, low sec or empire?.
Those. :)
-Liang
--
Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
www.kwikdeath.org |
Bellum Eternus
Gallente
Death of Virtue
|
Posted - 2009.03.24 07:03:00 -
[1252]
Edited by: Bellum Eternus on 24/03/2009 07:03:50
Originally by: Electric Universe
Edited by: Electric Universe on 24/03/2009 06:54:32
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: Electric Universe
So, if you are right as your trying to tell me, then show me some proofs by linking me some movies that have with PVP to do in empire and low sec and that shows many Amarr BS'es in a gang with RR's in a PVP movie. And show me some killboards from some very active corps in empire or low sec that shows that Blaster megas isn't used most.
Comeon, don't dissapoint us now.
Looking around at my current RR BS fleet:
Geddon, Geddon, Geddon, Mega (me), Tempest (me), Phoon, Cerb
Funny fact: the phoon pilot is training up Amarr too! Hmmmm....
-Liang
I'm not saying EVERYONE is using Megathrons in their gangs. I'm just saying overall the Blaster Megas are the most popular gank RR battleship in gangs today in empire and low sec.
And about the Typhoon pilot. It's a good idea to start training a new race when you have done the skilling for one race. Because, if you really want to kick ass in a Typhoon, you need most of the Minmatar skills for using a Typhoon maxed anyways.
But one question. Do you PVP in 0.0 space, low sec or empire?.
It's strange, I can't find you on any killboard, anywhere. So your character 'Electric Universe' is clearly an alt. Post with your motherf#cking main you noob. Or maybe you can't NightmareX?
Prove me wrong. Show me some kills. I want to see all your Blaster BS kills.
And BTW, I PVP almost exclusively in lowsec, not in sissified 0.0 where they have easymode bubbles and little puny ships like interceptors and dictors.
Bellum Eternus
Inveniam viam aut faciam.
Death of Virtue is Recruiting
|
Koloch
Amarr
|
Posted - 2009.03.24 07:04:00 -
[1253]
they don't look at it because it doesn't support their case. It's as easy as that.
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Bellum Eternus
Gallente
Death of Virtue
|
Posted - 2009.03.24 07:09:00 -
[1254]
Originally by: Electric Universe
Edited by: Electric Universe on 24/03/2009 07:04:11
Originally by: Bellum Eternus
Rabble rabble rabble with some e-peen stroking on your kills and some more rabble about how big you think you are in EVE, only because you have flown Blaster ships a little
Do i really need to do the e-peen stroking of my kills and experience only to show you that i know that Blaster Megas is the most popular gank RR battleship ingame?.
I don't need to post any of my kills when some other killboards already shows that the Blaster Megathron is the most popular gank RR battleship in EVE now. And the same with some PVP movies.
It's not hard to LOOK a little around to find facts dude.
Ok then, I simply don't believe you. Your 'facts' simply aren't true. You're just making them up, and you have no way to prove them as factual or correct. You're just lying to support your arguments.
Videos don't prove anything statistically. All that proves is that people who make videos tend to use Megathrons. Not that they're the most used RR BS.
Show me some stats from Battleclinic or some other large sample killboard that shows the most used BS in PVP being a Megathron. Oh, that's right, you can't. Because it isn't the case.
You're just making crap up as you go along to suit your argument, which I'm still unclear as to your motivation here. Do you just have a basic hate for blaster ships? What is your stake in what becomes of blaster ships? Why should you even give a crap? Clearly you just have some personal crusade against blaster ships and their pilots. I guess that just makes you a hater for no good reason.
Bellum Eternus
Inveniam viam aut faciam.
Death of Virtue is Recruiting
|
Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
|
Posted - 2009.03.24 07:09:00 -
[1255]
Edited by: Electric Universe on 24/03/2009 07:14:11
Originally by: Bellum Eternus
It's strange, I can't find you on any killboard, anywhere. So your character 'Electric Universe' is clearly an alt. Post with your motherf#cking main you noob. Or maybe you can't NightmareX?
Prove me wrong. Show me some kills. I want to see all your Blaster BS kills.
And BTW, I PVP almost exclusively in lowsec, not in sissified 0.0 where they have easymode bubbles and little puny ships like interceptors and dictors.
NightmareX is my brother.
Again, i don't want to be in the uber gay group that have to do the epic e-peen stroking about the your kills only to show that you know about something / Blasters / Blaster BS'es.
You don't need kills to know those facts i have been telling. The info that it's the truth is all over the forum here and on some killboards. And some movies RR gank to.
It's not hard to look around.
Now wanna prove me wrong huh?. Show me some killboards that shows that i'm wrong. Or maybe some movies that have with RR to do.
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Bellum Eternus
Gallente
Death of Virtue
|
Posted - 2009.03.24 07:20:00 -
[1256]
Originally by: Electric Universe
Edited by: Electric Universe on 24/03/2009 07:16:38
Originally by: Bellum Eternus
It's strange, I can't find you on any killboard, anywhere. So your character 'Electric Universe' is clearly an alt. Post with your motherf#cking main you noob. Or maybe you can't NightmareX?
Prove me wrong. Show me some kills. I want to see all your Blaster BS kills.
And BTW, I PVP almost exclusively in lowsec, not in sissified 0.0 where they have easymode bubbles and little puny ships like interceptors and dictors.
NightmareX is my brother.
Again, i don't want to be in the uber gay group that have to do the epic e-peen stroking about the your kills only to show that you know about something / Blasters / Blaster BS'es.
You don't need kills to know those facts i have been telling. The info that it's the truth is all over the forum here and on some killboards. And some RR gank movies to.
It's not hard to look around.
Now wanna prove me wrong huh?. Show me some killboards that shows that i'm wrong. Or maybe some movies that have with RR to do.
The burden of proof is on you. And yes, you do need kills. You need first hand experience with the subject you're discussing for your opinion to matter. Otherwise (and rightly so) it can simply be said that you don't know wtf you're talking about, if for no other reason than you haven't actually ever tried it out for yourself.
So I'm saying here and now: you've never used blasters in your life, particularly not in PVP, and particularly not with a BS in PVP, and you don't know what you're talking about, at all. Your opinion is irrelevant. You have no experience on the subject. You simply don't count.
Bellum Eternus
Inveniam viam aut faciam.
Death of Virtue is Recruiting
|
Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
|
Posted - 2009.03.24 07:23:00 -
[1257]
Originally by: Bellum Eternus
Originally by: Electric Universe
Edited by: Electric Universe on 24/03/2009 07:16:38
Originally by: Bellum Eternus
It's strange, I can't find you on any killboard, anywhere. So your character 'Electric Universe' is clearly an alt. Post with your motherf#cking main you noob. Or maybe you can't NightmareX?
Prove me wrong. Show me some kills. I want to see all your Blaster BS kills.
And BTW, I PVP almost exclusively in lowsec, not in sissified 0.0 where they have easymode bubbles and little puny ships like interceptors and dictors.
NightmareX is my brother.
Again, i don't want to be in the uber gay group that have to do the epic e-peen stroking about the your kills only to show that you know about something / Blasters / Blaster BS'es.
You don't need kills to know those facts i have been telling. The info that it's the truth is all over the forum here and on some killboards. And some RR gank movies to.
It's not hard to look around.
Now wanna prove me wrong huh?. Show me some killboards that shows that i'm wrong. Or maybe some movies that have with RR to do.
The burden of proof is on you. And yes, you do need kills. You need first hand experience with the subject you're discussing for your opinion to matter. Otherwise (and rightly so) it can simply be said that you don't know wtf you're talking about, if for no other reason than you haven't actually ever tried it out for yourself.
So I'm saying here and now: you've never used blasters in your life, particularly not in PVP, and particularly not with a BS in PVP, and you don't know what you're talking about, at all. Your opinion is irrelevant. You have no experience on the subject. You simply don't count.
So i need kills only to read and understand + see that Blaster Megas is the most used RR gang BS that is used today?.
Nice logic.
I have eyes and i can read and i can see pictures that says 1000 words.
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Bellum Eternus
Gallente
Death of Virtue
|
Posted - 2009.03.24 07:31:00 -
[1258]
Originally by: Electric Universe
EDIT: I forgot to say that Battleclinic sucks when it's about showing kills. First of all it contains with LOADS of sisi kills that peoples have posted. So i don't even use that kb my self because of it. Or i don't have plans to do it.
So don't use battleclinic. It's not the best source of info, I agree. Since you don't use that as a killboard, by all means, please post the killboard that you *do* use. I'm sure everyone is very interested to know just what sort of player you really are. My stats are in plain view. It's not 'epeen stroking' at all. Just simple *proven facts* that back up my argument. I don't see any hard evidence to support your claims. It's all weak conjecture and hearsay.
So yeah, I'm calling you a liar and a fake until you prove yourself otherwise. To your face.
Bellum Eternus
Inveniam viam aut faciam.
Death of Virtue is Recruiting
|
Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
|
Posted - 2009.03.24 07:36:00 -
[1259]
Originally by: Bellum Eternus
Originally by: Electric Universe
EDIT: I forgot to say that Battleclinic sucks when it's about showing kills. First of all it contains with LOADS of sisi kills that peoples have posted. So i don't even use that kb my self because of it. Or i don't have plans to do it.
So don't use battleclinic. It's not the best source of info, I agree. Since you don't use that as a killboard, by all means, please post the killboard that you *do* use. I'm sure everyone is very interested to know just what sort of player you really are. My stats are in plain view. It's not 'epeen stroking' at all. Just simple *proven facts* that back up my argument. I don't see any hard evidence to support your claims. It's all weak conjecture and hearsay.
So yeah, I'm calling you a liar and a fake until you prove yourself otherwise. To your face.
If you cannot prove me wrong with giving some killboard links from corps that do PVP in empire and low sec that uses RR gang BS'es that Amarr is most used, or via movies, then i guess i'm right until i'm proven wrong.
You have a choice to proove me wrong or show that your lying. It's your choice to choose what to do now.
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Goumindong
Amarr
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.03.24 07:37:00 -
[1260]
Originally by: Bellum Eternus
Do you even know who you're speaking to?
Are you important in the MMO community?
You are not a special font of knowledge, get over yourself. If there is something wrong that is being said, then explain why its wrong, bring evidence to its speciousness and then bring forth evidence yourself.
Then again, we all know what happens when you do that now don't we?
Solo pvp is not screwed, the people you had preyed on earlier caught up and got smart. Boo hoo.
Aside: Your killboards are hilarious.
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Bellum Eternus
Gallente
Death of Virtue
|
Posted - 2009.03.24 08:34:00 -
[1261]
Originally by: Goumindong
Originally by: Bellum Eternus
Do you even know who you're speaking to?
Are you important in the MMO community?
You are not a special font of knowledge, get over yourself. If there is something wrong that is being said, then explain why its wrong, bring evidence to its speciousness and then bring forth evidence yourself.
Then again, we all know what happens when you do that now don't we?
Solo pvp is not screwed, the people you had preyed on earlier caught up and got smart. Boo hoo.
Aside: Your killboards are hilarious.
Caught up and got smart? QR happened, agility got buffed and now everything can warp away before a BS with a single sensor booster can catch it. And even if something *is* caught, it gets back to the gate and jumps out due to the web nerf.
Nobody got smarter overnight. Nobody all of a sudden became aware of their shortcomings and was made brilliant by a patch. The game design changed and solo PVP suffered because of it.
As for being knowledgeable- I have more first hand experience with blaster BS and other blaster ships than you and that other noob combined, probably ten times over. Care to refute that? I would say that makes me absolutely qualified to speak about blaster BS's abilities, limitations and how they are currently performing in the game. For no other reason than I have used them extensively. No EFT, no damage curves. Actual every day use.
And now I'm using Amarr, a lot. Now I'm in your backyard and I'm becoming very familiar with what Amarr can and can't do. Sadly, there isn't any reason to return to using blasters. Lasers simply outperform them at every turn. Blasters are a joke. Hell, I might even fit DHP2s on my Megathron and zoom around shooting things with my 14km optimal and a 14km web just to prove a point.
WTF? How broken and overpowered does something have to be before you'll admit it's unbalanced? My Abaddon is cranking out 700+ DPS at 50+km with my Megapulse IIs and Scorch, just with the guns. That's not broken? Am I going to use it? Hell yes I am. As much as possible. But it just makes my Megathron obsolete. And with the web nerf and no tracking bonus the Hyperion is a complete joke.
There is a reason Amarr is 'FOTM': it's because it's the best and everything else is a far second. I'll use it for as long as I can. I just hope that they allow us to get more clones soon. Six total just isn't enough to store all my high grade slave sets with the various specialized racial gun implant sets, plus I need an empty one for podding myself when my bounty gets too high again.
Bellum Eternus
Inveniam viam aut faciam.
Death of Virtue is Recruiting
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Hell'n
|
Posted - 2009.03.24 08:41:00 -
[1262]
Originally by: Electric Universe
I have NOTHING to do with NightmareX, no matter how my writing style is.
Originally by: Electric Universe
Yes i'm a friend to NightmareX,.....
Originally by: Electric Universe
NightmareX is my brother.
Keeps getting better.
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Childstar
|
Posted - 2009.03.24 08:48:00 -
[1263]
Originally by: Electric Universe
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: Electric Universe
If Abaddons would be so much better, then why is not most of those Blaster pilots in Abaddons then?. They have had years to cross train to Amarr if they wanted to go there. But no, it's not happening as peoples says here.
It doesn't takes years to cross train from Gallente to Amarr anyways.
It has not been years stop lying, and i have only just finished cross training over myself and i had all the tertiary gunnery and PG/CPU ect skills done before i decided to do it.
So tell me exacly how long time it is since the Lasers got the tracking boost?. Also when Lasers got boosted.
It was after that the FOTM warriors started to praise Amarr up to the sky.
Stop lying your self maybe?.
Its not been years thats for sure, as it was just before the nano/web nerf and that is when ppl started realizing how good they had become because of those changes.
Try exhagerating less and knowing wtf your talking about more.
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JadeMako
Aliastra
|
Posted - 2009.03.24 09:23:00 -
[1264]
Originally by: Goumindong
Originally by: Bellum Eternus
Do you even know who you're speaking to?
Are you important in the MMO community?
At least he has a clue.
Originally by: Goumindong
You are not a special font of knowledge, get over yourself.
No u.
Originally by: Goumindong
If there is something wrong that is being said, then explain why its wrong, bring evidence to its speciousness and then bring forth evidence yourself.
He did. It didn't suit your POV so you ignored it.
Originally by: Goumindong
Then again, we all know what happens when you do that now don't we?
Yes, you ignore it.
Originally by: Goumindong
Solo pvp is not screwed, the people you had preyed on earlier caught up and got smart. Boo hoo.
Solo PVP exists in interceptors, this topic is about large blasters.
Originally by: Goumindong
Aside: Your killboards are hilarious.
Your arguments are hilarious
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Kagura Nikon
Minmatar
M. Corp
|
Posted - 2009.03.24 10:01:00 -
[1265]
Originally by: Mila Prestoc
Originally by: Kagura Nikon
Don't agree 1 little bit.
2 Gyros Tempest is not comparable to a 2 MFS Mega. The tanks are widely different (~95k EHP vs ~115k EHP). 1 Gyro Tempest is the equivelent setup to a Mega. You've also used Hail and not mentioned it, which is a huge factor because it turns AC's into worse optimal and falloff than blasters, and worse tracking than lasers. So if anything is going to lose damage due to those factors, the ACs with Hail will do first, losing its damage type advantage.
1 Gyro Tempest (still with Hail) does less damage (~300 vs ~325) than 2 MFS Mega.
No drones were included here or in the graphs, hence the Mega still has a 50m3 drone advantage yet to include for its total damage (since we included seige launcher).
Well temepest have a huge issue that is, CCP does not want to give us a decent faction AMMO. So we must use T2. But if the megatron is in the fight IT will be the ones trying to get up close. So not hard to get into range. Hail has about same range and falloff than AM in a blaster ship.
A Single Gyro tempest still outdamages a megatron after resists on a standard 2 EANM + DC tank (dont forget the Siege launcher), but by a very small margin. That to not talk about the typhoon that has a massive advantage on damage after resists.
REesistance distribution IS important.
Havign an OPTIMAL tank is not having the higher overal resists.
Example. You face 4 enemy threats in a day. Each oen dealing hypothetical 400 dps of damage one of each type.
First Ship can tank (or be tanked trough RR) 1000 DPS EM 600 DPS thermal 350 dps kin 300 dps explosive (total 2250)
Second ship can tank (or be tanked trough RR) 500 DPS EM 500 DPS Thermal 500 DPS kin 500 DPS explosive (total 2k)
First ship has larger total resists. But would die in 2 fights
Secodn ship has "inferior"resists, but would die in neither fight.
That is just a simple theoretical example. Just pointing why its useless to check your effective HP when almost all of it is on EM ronly.
-------------------------------------------------
If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
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Childstar
|
Posted - 2009.03.24 10:11:00 -
[1266]
Originally by: Mila Prestoc
Did you not read my explanation and list of OMNI tanking ships? More than 1 ship OMNI tanks... to say otherwise is blatent lying. At least put an explanation for no OMNI tanking Mega, Abaddon, Geddon, Tempest, evidence would be amazing to.
The mega cannot fit the omni tank you used as the example with a RR fit it does not have enough CPU, the abaddon does but has a natural resistance bonus skewing the results, the geddon cannot fit the modal you use either and the pest using it has weak explosive resistance and gets much better overall resists using a hardener and plate setup. The RR domi and phoon are also better off using active hardeners to boost their resistances instead of the omni fit.
Originally by: Mila Prestoc
I have never brought up that arguement, although looking at the graph the peak difference between geddon and Mega does appear to be about 25%. Between 7 turret Abaddon and Mega about 35%.
It would do considering you have totally stacked the deck against laser ships by using biased resistace modals.
Originally by: Mila Prestoc
The range at which the same level of advantage is reversed comes after 20km. Thats about 10km of superiority, 10km of similar levels of performance then the lasers have 20km of superiority, but personally for me superiority in 20-40km is less valuable than 0-10km. But then I use AC's so used to not having superiority at any range :p.
The levels of advantage are not equal to the figures you have given because most the ships you base your calculations on cannot fit the tanks described OR some actually have better tanks than you describe.
Originally by: Mila Prestoc
As i've just replied to Kagura above, the best Exp damage dealer does less than the Mega, at less range, with less tracking, unless you fly it like a tin can.
The RR phoon fit i saw did around 10% more damage vs the FULL 2 x eanm and DCU omni tank than the RR mega does and the phoon does not use the onmi tank (nor does the mega or at least the full one) as the phoon gets better overall resists by using active hardeners a DCU and twin plates. So i honestly doubt i would be flying the RR pest when i can be flying the RR phoon. Just like flying the RR abaddon is better than the RR geddon.
Originally by: Mila Prestoc
7% more or less dps compared to other ships. But the difference in changing a EANM to ANP increases the DPS of ALL ships shooting the target and not just one.
Your right but your graphs ignore the fact that the ships and systems in question like the RR blaster mega get the decrease in resistances while ships like the abaddon actually have better resists. And as with the phoon and domi along with others a lot of ships do not fit the omni tank as they get better results from other fits.
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Childstar
|
Posted - 2009.03.24 10:38:00 -
[1267]
Originally by: Kagura Nikon
Originally by: Mila Prestoc
Originally by: Kagura Nikon
Don't agree 1 little bit.
2 Gyros Tempest is not comparable to a 2 MFS Mega. The tanks are widely different (~95k EHP vs ~115k EHP). 1 Gyro Tempest is the equivelent setup to a Mega. You've also used Hail and not mentioned it, which is a huge factor because it turns AC's into worse optimal and falloff than blasters, and worse tracking than lasers. So if anything is going to lose damage due to those factors, the ACs with Hail will do first, losing its damage type advantage.
1 Gyro Tempest (still with Hail) does less damage (~300 vs ~325) than 2 MFS Mega.
No drones were included here or in the graphs, hence the Mega still has a 50m3 drone advantage yet to include for its total damage (since we included seige launcher).
Well temepest have a huge issue that is, CCP does not want to give us a decent faction AMMO. So we must use T2. But if the megatron is in the fight IT will be the ones trying to get up close. So not hard to get into range. Hail has about same range and falloff than AM in a blaster ship.
A Single Gyro tempest still outdamages a megatron after resists on a standard 2 EANM + DC tank (dont forget the Siege launcher), but by a very small margin. That to not talk about the typhoon that has a massive advantage on damage after resists.
REesistance distribution IS important.
Havign an OPTIMAL tank is not having the higher overal resists.
Example. You face 4 enemy threats in a day. Each oen dealing hypothetical 400 dps of damage one of each type.
First Ship can tank (or be tanked trough RR) 1000 DPS EM 600 DPS thermal 350 dps kin 300 dps explosive (total 2250)
Second ship can tank (or be tanked trough RR) 500 DPS EM 500 DPS Thermal 500 DPS kin 500 DPS explosive (total 2k)
First ship has larger total resists. But would die in 2 fights
Secodn ship has "inferior"resists, but would die in neither fight.
That is just a simple theoretical example. Just pointing why its useless to check your effective HP when almost all of it is on EM ronly.
Show him this...
Phoon dmg vs mega dmg against the ledgendary "UNBER DMG WITH BLASTERS VS OMNI TANK"....
RR Phoon gets 382 dps after FULL omni tank resistances.
RR Megas gets 356 dps after FULL omni tank resistances.
The joke is thart the mega cannot fit the FULL omni tank and the phoon does not cos its gets better overall resists with a hardener/dcu/twin plate setup.
Oh and in their ACTUAL AVAILABLE fits...
The phoon hits the mega for 422.3 dps after the megas resists.
The mega hits the phoon for 311.3 dps after the phoons resists.
As you can see the phoon fit tanks blasters better than the omni tank 311.3/356 so well over 10% better. As well as doing more damage against the mega than the FULL omni tank as the mega cannot fit it 422.3/382 so this time just under 10%..
The phoons fit has 118,112ehp and nice balanced all over resistance coverage from 65.6 to 75.1.
The megas fit has 115,436ehp and a dirty great explosive hole (52.2) along with weaker thermal and kinetic (both 65.5) resists than the phoon...
Now put that pest down and get in a good RR ship...
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Mila Prestoc
|
Posted - 2009.03.24 11:24:00 -
[1268]
The general eve population are like sheep, where one goes they follow. They see enough topics and posts (even if its the same people over and over) they will start to believe what they read, hence FOTM's occur.
Nothing was wrong with lasers even in 2007, it was some of the ships. They didn't need tracking boost and didn't need base EM resistance changing (which screws none-Omni tanks). But thats all it took for people to go "oh i'll give them a try then", throw in some exposure (Kil2/Cown ect) and you have a FOTM forming, and here we are.
-------------------------
Originally by: "Lord Violent"
EvE is slowly becoming a game for the stupid, catered to by devs as they lack ability to kill/survive anything.
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Mila Prestoc
|
Posted - 2009.03.24 11:43:00 -
[1269]
Originally by: Kagura Nikon
Well temepest have a huge issue that is, CCP does not want to give us a decent faction AMMO. So we must use T2. But if the megatron is in the fight IT will be the ones trying to get up close. So not hard to get into range. Hail has about same range and falloff than AM in a blaster ship.
A Single Gyro tempest still outdamages a megatron after resists on a standard 2 EANM + DC tank (dont forget the Siege launcher), but by a very small margin. That to not talk about the typhoon that has a massive advantage on damage after resists.
REesistance distribution IS important.
Havign an OPTIMAL tank is not having the higher overal resists.
Example. You face 4 enemy threats in a day. Each oen dealing hypothetical 400 dps of damage one of each type.
First Ship can tank (or be tanked trough RR) 1000 DPS EM 600 DPS thermal 350 dps kin 300 dps explosive (total 2250)
Second ship can tank (or be tanked trough RR) 500 DPS EM 500 DPS Thermal 500 DPS kin 500 DPS explosive (total 2k)
First ship has larger total resists. But would die in 2 fights
Secodn ship has "inferior"resists, but would die in neither fight.
That is just a simple theoretical example. Just pointing why its useless to check your effective HP when almost all of it is on EM ronly.
Well for some reason they still think the differences in T1 ammo are useful in todays eve even after T2 ammo was introduced, and since faction ammo is based on T1... T2 ammo is the bigger problem, tracking penalty on close range ammo just screws them, especially since web nerf, makes the only viable option faction.
Only when shooting the armour, you still have to get through unhardened shields which is still 50% (more with DC) and then structure which is a even playing field. Hence you end up with less total DPS over the course of the fight because the advantage in armour isn't large enough to make up for the other 2 HP layers. Also just to emphasise that this is still not including drones hence the ships end damage isn't being compared, just AC+Seige vs Blaster.
Depends how your using the Typhoon, a lot of its damage is drones, Torps need target painting (slow could otherwise be used for eccm ect) and the target to be <100m/s, plus the range is only 17km, and if you listen to our blaster pilots in here range counts for everything.
It's also obviously the best case scenario, situation you can use hail, Omni tanks. Stick a exp hard (like gallente pilots do) to fill the hole and its a huge change.
Yes having highest resistance is having the optimal tank, at least in gangs, because you will take damage of all kinds. Just look around at people jumping on the amarr bandwagon, you will take EM damage, so are you really going to have EM lowest on both shields and armour? You will reduce more damage by using Omni than using actives will reduce from the other ships. Yes your weaker to specific ships, but really, if your whole gang is Omni tanked, who you going to primary first? Abaddon/Geddon or Tempest/Typhoon? Certainly won't be the Abaddon with its huge tank, so you can quickly remove a lot of damage that your weakest against.
You can probably find a lot of my posts from when they were "looking at" EANM tanks and there stupid answer to the situation. EANM is the best option unless fitting more than 3 hards, before they screwed with base resistances I thought differently but not now.
-------------------------
Originally by: "Lord Violent"
EvE is slowly becoming a game for the stupid, catered to by devs as they lack ability to kill/survive anything.
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Childstar
|
Posted - 2009.03.24 11:45:00 -
[1270]
Originally by: Mila Prestoc
The general eve population are like sheep, where one goes they follow. They see enough topics and posts (even if its the same people over and over) they will start to believe what they read, hence FOTM's occur.
Belief cannot stand against the truth.
For a long time now ppl have been preaching the line "35% moar blaster dmg vs lasers" every chance they get, but the truth is that those dmg ratios do not exist when applied to the available ships in question. And ignores massive flaws in the ships that do fit it or close to its tanks.
Originally by: Mila Prestoc
Nothing was wrong with lasers even in 2007, it was some of the ships. They didn't need tracking boost and didn't need base EM resistance changing (which screws none-Omni tanks). But thats all it took for people to go "oh i'll give them a try then", throw in some exposure (Kil2/Cown ect) and you have a FOTM forming, and here we are.
No it also took a total removal of nano that made range the new and best "tertiary tank" that ships can use to reduce incoming damage.
The web nerf amoung other things made BS that were or could be previously used for solo work highly vulnerable to smaller ships that can now kite and hold until reinforcments arrive or in a lot of casses kite and kill. While the BS themselves took a massive hit/reduction in available tacklable/holdable/killable targets.
All this made BS gang combat either with or without RR the only close range option as well as blaster BS like the mega and the hyperion poor relative choices for such due to fitting constraints and the afore mentioned range issues.
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|
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Traderboz
|
Posted - 2009.03.24 11:48:00 -
[1271]
Originally by: Hell'n
Originally by: Electric Universe
I have NOTHING to do with NightmareX, no matter how my writing style is.
Originally by: Electric Universe
Yes i'm a friend to NightmareX,.....
Originally by: Electric Universe
NightmareX is my brother.
Keeps getting better.
Lawl. I am waiting to see what's next. Siamese twin? Husband? Alternate personality?
As far as discussion in this thread goes, I tend to agree Blasters are pretty limited these days when compared to Amarr ships due to recent patches. Still, I have yet to see many comparisons to Matar ships and how blasters stack up against them. At first glance they seem pretty balanced in that respect, but if that's the case, it seems like lasers are the problem, not blasters. :P
I'd also think another problem is the Hyp's wasted active tanking bonus, which was mentioned pages and pages ago, haha. Assuming that was changed to something useful, the comparison between hyp/abaddon might not be quite so rough. Comparison Mega to Abaddon isn't quite a fair comparison, since they're from different tiers.
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Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
|
Posted - 2009.03.24 11:55:00 -
[1272]
Edited by: Electric Universe on 24/03/2009 11:56:19
Originally by: Hell'n
Originally by: Electric Universe
I have NOTHING to do with NightmareX, no matter how my writing style is.
Originally by: Electric Universe
Yes i'm a friend to NightmareX,.....
Originally by: Electric Universe
NightmareX is my brother.
Keeps getting better.
Yeah, your posts are getting better and better to.
Keep posting.
Anyways. No, Both Childstar and Bellum haven't done the thing that is to give killboard links that shows that Amarr BS'es are most used Or links to some movies that shows that. Aka proofs.
Because, if Amarr BS'es is THAT must used, then it's shouldn't be any problems to give proofs from killboards and movies right?.
So just please stop your epic whinage Child and Bellum as long you can't give any proofs of what your saying.
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Childstar
|
Posted - 2009.03.24 11:57:00 -
[1273]
Edited by: Childstar on 24/03/2009 12:00:48
Originally by: Traderboz
Still, I have yet to see many comparisons to Matar ships and how blasters stack up against them. At first glance they seem pretty balanced in that respect, but if that's the case, it seems like lasers are the problem, not blasters. :P
ASK AND YE SHAL RECIEVE..
Typhoon dmg vs mega dmg against the ledgendary "UBER DMG WITH BLASTERS VS 2x eanm + dcu OMNI TANK"....
Mega gets 1132 max raw dmg.
poon gets 1006 max raw dmg.
RR Poon gets 382 dps after/against FULL omni tank resistances.
RR Mega gets 356 dps after/against FULL omni tank resistances.
The joke is that the mega cannot fit the FULL omni tank and the phoon does not cos its gets better overall resists with a hardener/dcu/twin plate setup.
Oh and in their ACTUAL AVAILABLE fits...
The phoon hits the mega for 422.3 dps after the megas resists.
The mega hits the phoon for 311.3 dps after the phoons resists.
As you can see the phoon fit tanks blasters better than the omni tank 311.3/356 so well over 10% better. As well as doing more damage against the mega than the FULL omni tank as the mega cannot fit it 422.3/382 so this time just under 10%..
The phoons fit has 118,112ehp and nice balanced all over resistance coverage from 65.6min to 75.1max.
The megas fit has 115,436ehp and a dirty great explosive hole (52.2) along with weaker thermal and kinetic (both 65.5) resists than the phoon...
Now put that pest down and get in a good RR ship...
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Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
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Posted - 2009.03.24 12:02:00 -
[1274]
Edited by: Electric Universe on 24/03/2009 12:04:32
LAWL, and Childstar does the epic comeback with his epic stats stroking.
What does that reply actually trying to say?. Yes it might say it have better DPS and tank, but that doesn't change the fact that the Blaster Megathron is the most used gank RR gang BS in low sec and empire.
I don't care what stats the ships have. All i care about what ship that is really good in gang PVP with RR's in low sec and empire.
Oh, at least write down what kind of setups you are using on the 2 ships your talking about Child.
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Kagura Nikon
Minmatar
M. Corp
|
Posted - 2009.03.24 12:02:00 -
[1275]
Originally by: Mila Prestoc
[
Well for some reason they still think the differences in T1 ammo are useful in todays eve even after T2 ammo was introduced, and since faction ammo is based on T1... T2 ammo is the bigger problem, tracking penalty on close range ammo just screws them, especially since web nerf, makes the only viable option faction.
Only when shooting the armour, you still have to get through unhardened shields which is still 50% (more with DC) and then structure which is a even playing field. Hence you end up with less total DPS over the course of the fight because the advantage in armour isn't large enough to make up for the other 2 HP layers. Also just to emphasise that this is still not including drones hence the ships end damage isn't being compared, just AC+Seige vs Blaster.
Depends how your using the Typhoon, a lot of its damage is drones, Torps need target painting (slow could otherwise be used for eccm ect) and the target to be <100m/s, plus the range is only 17km, and if you listen to our blaster pilots in here range counts for everything.
It's also obviously the best case scenario, situation you can use hail, Omni tanks. Stick a exp hard (like gallente pilots do) to fill the hole and its a huge change.
Yes having highest resistance is having the optimal tank, at least in gangs, because you will take damage of all kinds. Just look around at people jumping on the amarr bandwagon, you will take EM damage, so are you really going to have EM lowest on both shields and armour? You will reduce more damage by using Omni than using actives will reduce from the other ships. Yes your weaker to specific ships, but really, if your whole gang is Omni tanked, who you going to primary first? Abaddon/Geddon or Tempest/Typhoon? Certainly won't be the Abaddon with its huge tank, so you can quickly remove a lot of damage that your weakest against.
You can probably find a lot of my posts from when they were "looking at" EANM tanks and there stupid answer to the situation. EANM is the best option unless fitting more than 3 hards, before they screwed with base resistances I thought differently but not now.
need to point a few things. Since QR change on missile mechanics the speed and signature isolated does not matter. Only the ratio. So if you raise the signature of a ship to like 4k (what woudl happen to a BS with MWD on and 2 target painter on it) the ship will take FULL damage from torpedoes, even if the torpedo explosion speed is 150 ms while the ship is moving at 800ms.
Fact remains there is more minmatar and gallente ships on pvp environments than amarr (and ammar at close range deals 50% thermal also). Also Active hardeners can overheat! Also Doomsdays come in very specific flavors. I prefer to be able to tank any of them even if its a ragnarok.
-------------------------------------------------
If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
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Childstar
|
Posted - 2009.03.24 12:07:00 -
[1276]
Originally by: Electric Universe
Anyways. No, Both Childstar and Bellum haven't done the thing that is to give killboard links that shows that Amarr BS'es are most used Or links to some movies that shows that. Aka proofs.
We have proven plenty you just cannot accept it because your biased.
Originally by: Electric Universe
So just please stop your epic whinage Child and Bellum as long you can't give any proofs of what your saying.
This from the person who says "waaaa stop fittying the abaddon so well it makes the mega look bad"...
Originally by: Electric Universe
EDIT: And also, lol at all of the alts and npc corp players that have to post in this topic. Scared of letting us know who your main is?.
This from the banned nightmareX alt whos first post in this thread was to support his own banned main and the deny really knowing him, then later saying they were buddies, and yesterday saying he was his brother.....
Tell us more about that 2 LAR +8 nuetron hyperion with 3 x repair rigs you said you used pls...just what did it have in its mids and how much PG did it use?....
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Childstar
|
Posted - 2009.03.24 12:11:00 -
[1277]
Edited by: Childstar on 24/03/2009 12:12:58
Originally by: Electric Universe
I don't care what stats the ships have. All i care about what ship that is really good in gang PVP with RR's in low sec and empire.
CLASSIC...
Maybe somebody should mention to NX alt that stats = ability and performace.
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Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
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Posted - 2009.03.24 12:22:00 -
[1278]
Edited by: Electric Universe on 24/03/2009 12:26:07
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: Electric Universe
Anyways. No, Both Childstar and Bellum haven't done the thing that is to give killboard links that shows that Amarr BS'es are most used Or links to some movies that shows that. Aka proofs.
We have proven plenty you just cannot accept it because your biased.
Originally by: Electric Universe
So just please stop your epic whinage Child and Bellum as long you can't give any proofs of what your saying.
This from the person who says "waaaa stop fittying the abaddon so well it makes the mega look bad"...
Originally by: Electric Universe
EDIT: And also, lol at all of the alts and npc corp players that have to post in this topic. Scared of letting us know who your main is?.
This from the banned nightmareX alt whos first post in this thread was to support his own banned main and the deny really knowing him, then later saying they were buddies, and yesterday saying he was his brother.....
Tell us more about that 2 LAR +8 nuetron hyperion with 3 x repair rigs you said you used pls...just what did it have in its mids and how much PG did it use?....
Nr 1. Where is the killboard and movie links that proves it?. It haven't happened, so i'm waiting.
Nr 2. Good try to look more right by that reply.
Nr 3. I'm still NightmareX's brother no matter what you say. Keep trying to prove me wrong. And keep babbling about some stuffs that doesn't have anything with the questions i asked. Good try to twist you away from what i'm asking.
Nr 4. Tell us more about how much proof you have that Blaster Megas in RR gangs is not used most.
Give killboard or movie links that proves that Amarr is most used in RR gangs in low sec and empire.
Before that happens. You can whine all you want. I'm holding on the facts before i listen to some whiners that was bitten by the Amarr FOTM idiots.
Even Minmatar is more used than any Amarr ships in total if you take the stats from big alliances that are in 0.0 space to.
Here is one example that even a Tempest is used over 100% more than an Armageddon is used: http://triumvirate-alliance.com/?a=alliance_detail&all_id=285&view=ships_weapons.
Originally by: Childstar
CLASSIC...
Maybe somebody should mention to the NX alt that stats = ability and performace.
Nice try to look any more right about the things i have asked you about.
But for me, you can do as much whining you want. I know your bitter because i'm right.
Yes i'm right as long no one of you or Bellum or ther other cry babys in this topic can't prove what i have said to be WRONG. |
GTC seller72
|
Posted - 2009.03.24 12:41:00 -
[1279]
Edited by: GTC seller72 on 24/03/2009 12:41:44
From buddies.
Originally by: Electric Universe
NightmareX only have 1 account.
So what, because i'm a friend of him and have almost the same posting style as him doesn't mean i'm his alt, at all.
To brothers in just a few days...
Originally by: Electric Universe
I'm still NightmareX's brother no matter what you say.
It must have been wonderful finding out after all these years that he was your brother...i mean only a few days ago you said yourself that you hardly knew him, then you became friends and now you discover that you are brothers....
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Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
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Posted - 2009.03.24 12:46:00 -
[1280]
Edited by: Electric Universe on 24/03/2009 12:47:20
Originally by: GTC seller72
Edited by: GTC seller72 on 24/03/2009 12:41:44
From buddies.
Originally by: Electric Universe
NightmareX only have 1 account.
So what, because i'm a friend of him and have almost the same posting style as him doesn't mean i'm his alt, at all.
To brothers in just a few days...
Originally by: Electric Universe
I'm still NightmareX's brother no matter what you say.
It must have been wonderful finding out after all these years that he was your brother...i mean only a few days ago you said yourself that you hardly knew him, then you became friends and now you discover that you are brothers....
Link me the topic where i said i didn't even know him?.
Ooooops, you can't, because i haven't said that.
Even when he is my brother, he can still be my friend to.
NightmareX is still my brother.
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Hell'n
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Posted - 2009.03.24 12:47:00 -
[1281]
Edited by: Hell''n on 24/03/2009 12:50:47
Originally by: GTC seller72
It must have been wonderful finding out after all these years that he was your brother...i mean only a few days ago you said yourself that you hardly knew him, then you became friends and now you discover that you are brothers....
You missed the first instalment...
Originally by: Electric Universe
I have NOTHING to do with NightmareX, no matter how my writing style is.
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GTC seller72
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Posted - 2009.03.24 12:49:00 -
[1282]
Edited by: GTC seller72 on 24/03/2009 12:54:34
Originally by: Electric Universe
LOL, the Armageddon is not even in the list of used ships there, bwaahahahahah.
I do not remember anybody talking about the abaddon?.
Originally by: Electric Universe
Yes i'm right as long no one of you or Bellum or ther other cry babys in this topic can't prove what i have said to be WRONG.
You are a liar and a alt of a banned troll that nobody likes, respects or values the opinion of.
Just because you can post a couple of links to ppl or corps that use megas in gang does not mean things are balanced, in fact all it means is that you have once again ran out of rational arguments and are again trolling the thread with vague accusations that only you think proves anything.
Nobody has denied that ppl still use blaster megas but that does not mean that they do not need adjusting, try getting that though your thick inexperianced troll skull.
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GTC seller72
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Posted - 2009.03.24 12:50:00 -
[1283]
Originally by: Electric Universe
Link me the topic where i said i didn't even know him?.
Ooooops, you can't, because i haven't said that.
Originally by: Electric Universe
I have NOTHING to do with NightmareX, no matter how my writing style is.
Liar and troll with the memory of a goldfish.....
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Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
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Posted - 2009.03.24 12:50:00 -
[1284]
Edited by: Electric Universe on 24/03/2009 12:51:04
Originally by: Hell'n
Originally by: GTC seller72
It must have been wonderful finding out after all these years that he was your brother...i mean only a few days ago you said yourself that you hardly knew him, then you became friends and now you discover that you are brothers....
You missed the first instalment...
Originally by: Hell'n
Originally by: Electric Universe
I have NOTHING to do with NightmareX, no matter how my writing style is.
Oh look at the bitter alts that can't be on topic.
If you have a problem that NightmareX is my brother, then just write him an e-mail here: [email protected]
And complain / cry there why your so angry because he's my brother.
Do not take that into here, because it's off topic.
Anyone wanna answer me the questions or what?, or are you still gonna do bitter posts?.
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GTC seller72
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Posted - 2009.03.24 12:53:00 -
[1285]
Originally by: Electric Universe
I have NOTHING to do with NightmareX, no matter how my writing style is.
Originally by: Electric Universe
NightmareX only have 1 account.
So what, because i'm a friend of him and have almost the same posting style as him doesn't mean i'm his alt, at all.
Originally by: Electric Universe
I'm still NightmareX's brother no matter what you say.
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Hell'n
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Posted - 2009.03.24 12:53:00 -
[1286]
Originally by: Electric Universe
Oh look at the bitter alts that can't be on topic.
If you have a problem that NightmareX is my brother, then just write him an e-mail here: [email protected]
And complain / cry there why your so angry because he's my brother.
Do not take that into here, because it's off topic.
Anyone wanna answer me the questions or what?, or are you still gonna do bitter posts?.
Originally by: Electric Universe
I have NOTHING to do with NightmareX, no matter how my writing style is.
Lies.
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Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
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Posted - 2009.03.24 12:58:00 -
[1287]
Edited by: Electric Universe on 24/03/2009 13:00:38
Originally by: GTC seller72
Edited by: GTC seller72 on 24/03/2009 12:50:55
Originally by: Electric Universe
LOL, the Armageddon is not even in the list of used ships there, bwaahahahahah.
I do not remember anybody talking about the abaddon?.
Originally by: Electric Universe
Yes i'm right as long no one of you or Bellum or ther other cry babys in this topic can't prove what i have said to be WRONG.
You are a liar and a alt of a banned troll that nobody likes, respects or values the opinion of.
Just because you can post a couple of links to ppl or corps that use megas in gang does not mean things are balanced, in fact all it means is that you have once again ran out of rational arguments and are again trolling the thread with vague accusations that only your think proves anything.
Nobody has denied that ppl still use blaster megas but that does not mean that they do not need adjusting, try getting that though your thick inexperianced troll skull.
Congratulation for not taking the point here. To your first rabble rabble. Didn't you see that i was saying that even an Armageddon was not on that list?. I didn't talk about the Abaddon there.
2nd thing your bitter about. Cry some more loooool.
3rd thing. Killmails and the stats on the killboards of most used ships is a good enough evidence to say that i'm right.
4th thing. When Blasters are most used in RR gangs or in empire and low sec overall, then i don't think there are any problems with Blaster Megas that makes them any poor.
Because if the Blaster Megas have had all of the problems as your saying they have, then no one would use them over an Abaddon ever.
So, the ship must be extremely good at something when someone use it so much right?.
Oh yeah, why not post with your main?. To scared to make your main character to look a bit wierd only because we proves you wrong on something?.
EDIT, Yes yes, the alts are right about everything, always, it's the truth LOL.
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Hell'n
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Posted - 2009.03.24 13:00:00 -
[1288]
Is it hot in that hole NightmareX? you must be close to the core by now.
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ChalSto
LOCKDOWN.
Force Of Evil
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Posted - 2009.03.24 13:02:00 -
[1289]
Originally by: Electric Universe
Anyways. No, Both Childstar and Bellum haven't done the thing that is to give killboard links that shows that Amarr BS'es are most used Or links to some movies that shows that. Aka proofs.
Because, if Amarr BS'es is THAT must used, then it's shouldn't be any problems to give proofs from killboards and movies right?.
So just please stop your epic whinage Child and Bellum as long you can't give any proofs of what your saying.
EDIT: And also, lol at all of the alts and npc corp players that have to post in this topic. Scared of letting us know who your main is?.
Well then....just look at your "brother¦s" alliance killboard.......
....btw I¦m in the same alliance. Not to mention, that his alliance
participation is pretty low.
Bellum has valid points, the correct math and more then enough first-hand experience.
You guys want to know some funny stuff?
I¦ve given up flying blasterships (mostly) and switched to (wohoo) nano-sleip,
vagabond and (tadaaaa) RR-phoon.
Oh....and btw....my gank-phoon hits up to 20km with 1290dps...
Originally by: Agmar
-----------------------------------------------
"The North is so ghey that even the NPCs fly ravens." |
Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
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Posted - 2009.03.24 13:02:00 -
[1290]
Originally by: Hell'n
Is it hot in that hole NightmareX? you must be close to the core by now.
Isn't it hot'n cool to be reported soon for going off topic?.
Oh wait a sec, that's why you are posting with alts, hahahahah, so you can do some epic bitter alt poasting.
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Hell'n
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Posted - 2009.03.24 13:04:00 -
[1291]
Originally by: Electric Universe
Originally by: Hell'n
Is it hot in that hole NightmareX? you must be close to the core by now.
Isn't it hot'n cool to be reported soon for going off topic?.
Oh wait a sec, that's why you are posting with alts, hahahahah, so you can do some epic bitter alt poasting.
An alt quoting an alt quoting an alt.
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GTC seller72
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Posted - 2009.03.24 13:08:00 -
[1292]
Edited by: GTC seller72 on 24/03/2009 13:09:06
Originally by: GTC seller72
You are a liar and a alt of a banned troll that nobody likes, respects or values the opinion of.
Just because you can post a couple of links to ppl or corps that use megas in gang does not mean things are balanced, in fact all it means is that you have once again ran out of rational arguments and are again trolling the thread with vague accusations that only your think proves anything.
Nobody has denied that ppl still use blaster megas but that does not mean that they do not need adjusting, try getting that though your thick inexperianced troll skull.
Originally by: Electric Universe
2nd thing your bitter about. Cry some more loooool.
3rd thing. Killmails and the stats on the killboards of most used ships is a good enough evidence to say that i'm right.
Ok so by your own words you have no clue about the subject as no killboard anywhere has any kills on it ever from you and your main has 0 kills ever in a blaster ship either.
Weird how you dismiss KB stats when it shows that you are cluless but act like its a bible and proves everything when it shows a few blaster ships on links.
Originally by: Electric Universe
Because if the Blaster Megas have had all of the problems as your saying they have, then no one would use them over an Abaddon ever.
Apart from the fact that ppl may not have trained amarr up yet and are still flying in ships they are trained for, after all the lies about "35% moar blaster dmg vs lasers" being standard for pvp have only just been shot down so people will need time to adapt.
Originally by: Electric Universe
Oh yeah, why not post with your main?. To scared to make your main character to look a bit wierd only because we proves you wrong on something?.
You are a liar and a troll and that HAS been proven.
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Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
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Posted - 2009.03.24 13:11:00 -
[1293]
Edited by: Electric Universe on 24/03/2009 13:15:50
Originally by: Hell'n
Originally by: Electric Universe
Originally by: Hell'n
Is it hot in that hole NightmareX? you must be close to the core by now.
Isn't it hot'n cool to be reported soon for going off topic?.
Oh wait a sec, that's why you are posting with alts, hahahahah, so you can do some epic bitter alt poasting.
An alt quoting an alt quoting an alt.
A poast that really did prove me wrong about the things i have said, yes now you should get the gold medal for being the most awesome player that have explained the most detailed explaiation why Blaster Megas isn't used most.
And ChalSto. Bellum is not right about anything when it's about Blaster BS, specially when it's about now. All he does is doing some epic e-peen stroking on his kills and how very famous he thinks he are in EVE only because he have some kills with Blaster ships.
And he was bitten by the Amarr FOTM players anyways, so his epic whine doesn't count.
Oh, by looking here: http://kills.forceofevil.co.uk/?a=alliance_detail&all_id=37&view=ships_weapons
I see that even the crappiest and the most poor BS stats wise that is a Tempest is used way more than any of the Amarr BS'es that are supposed to be so epic good, yeah right.
LOL good enough proof there also to show that Amarr isn't used much at all.
EDIT, to you over me here. Please do some more eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeemmmmmmmmmooooooooooooo raaaaaaaaaaaaaage. It's makes me use more popcorn.
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Hell'n
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Posted - 2009.03.24 13:14:00 -
[1294]
You have no TQ Blaster PvP experience at all.
You are a liar. Nuff said.
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Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
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Posted - 2009.03.24 13:17:00 -
[1295]
Originally by: Hell'n
You have no TQ Blaster PvP experience at all.
You are a liar. Nuff said.
Do i need TQ Blaster experience to read some killboards and watch some movies?.
LOL. MORE POPCORN DAMNIT. I'M OUT OF IT.
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Hell'n
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Posted - 2009.03.24 13:19:00 -
[1296]
Originally by: Electric Universe
Do i need TQ Blaster experience to read some killboards and watch some movies?.
LOL. MORE POPCORN DAMNIT. I'M OUT OF IT.
Quote of the day, we have a winner.
I'm off to work, thx for the rofl
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Childstar
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Posted - 2009.03.24 13:21:00 -
[1297]
Edited by: Childstar on 24/03/2009 13:24:15
Originally by: Electric Universe
Oh, by looking here: http://kills.forceofevil.co.uk/?a=alliance_detail&all_id=37&view=ships_weapons
Not that i think a single link makes much of a differance but if you look on YOUR link in the:
MOST USED SHIPS AND WEAPONS LIST
http://kills.forceofevil.co.uk/?a=alliance_detail&all_id=37&view=ships_weapons
The most used close range BS turret is the MEGA PULSE II.
In fact blasters do not even make it on the list and the only reason megas are on the list is because of rail fitted snipers....
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Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
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Posted - 2009.03.24 13:24:00 -
[1298]
Edited by: Electric Universe on 24/03/2009 13:26:03
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: Electric Universe
Oh, by looking here: http://kills.forceofevil.co.uk/?a=alliance_detail&all_id=37&view=ships_weapons
Not that i think a single link makes much of a differance but if you look on YOUR link in the:
MOST USED SHIPS AND WEAPONS LIST
http://kills.forceofevil.co.uk/?a=alliance_detail&all_id=37&view=ships_weapons[/url]
The most use close range BS turret is the MEGA PULSE II.
In fact blasters do not even make it on the list and the only reason megas are on the list is because of rail fitted snipers....
Wow, only because it shows that Mega Pulse Laser II's are most used med range weapons system, and then that you see that the Blasters isn't used because of the range FOE is fighting at, so peoples use rail and artilleries instead, then yeah.
Yes Gallente and Minmatar have to use the Railguns and Artilleries to get up to the same range as Pulses, then it ofc tells me why.
What's your point again?
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Zubakis
Bambooule
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Posted - 2009.03.24 13:28:00 -
[1299]
Originally by: Electric Universe
Edited by: Electric Universe on 24/03/2009 13:20:46
Originally by: Hell'n
You have no TQ Blaster PvP experience at all.
You are a liar. Nuff said.
Do i need TQ Blaster experience to read some killboards and watch some movies?.
LOL. MORE POPCORN DAMNIT. I'M OUT OF IT.
Now, instead of doing this off topic crap, then can't you guys prove me wrong by giving me proofs that Amarr BS'es is so much more used because they are teh pwnsause, or does it mean i'm totally right here?.
How can you be right about something if you never used it?
How can you say, that people who use EFT and their experience stats to give a proof are not right, when yourself is only reading and watching movies?
The only thing what you've done so far is to say 'I'm right and you cant prove me wrong'. You are right about what? What should we prove?
You did nothing, but only showing how stupid you are.
-- Zuba |
Childstar
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Posted - 2009.03.24 13:30:00 -
[1300]
Edited by: Childstar on 24/03/2009 13:30:56
Originally by: Electric Universe
Edited by: Electric Universe on 24/03/2009 13:26:03
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: Electric Universe
Oh, by looking here: http://kills.forceofevil.co.uk/?a=alliance_detail&all_id=37&view=ships_weapons
Not that i think a single link makes much of a differance but if you look on YOUR link in the:
MOST USED SHIPS AND WEAPONS LIST
http://kills.forceofevil.co.uk/?a=alliance_detail&all_id=37&view=ships_weapons[/url]
The most use close range BS turret is the MEGA PULSE II.
In fact blasters do not even make it on the list and the only reason megas are on the list is because of rail fitted snipers....
Wow, only because it shows that Mega Pulse Laser II's are most used med range weapons system, and then that you see that the Blasters isn't used because of the range FOE is fighting at, so peoples use rail and artilleries instead, then yeah.
Yes Gallente and Minmatar have to use the Railguns and Artilleries to get up to the same range as Pulses, then it ofc tells me why.
What's your point again?
Well i know you just argue for the sake of it and from reading above about your posts about you main you have terible a memory... But considering this thead is about BS BLASTERS and that link clearly shows NOBODY using them that you posting the link as some sort of proof that blasters are fine is kind of dumb....
But then im sure you wil try to dig/troll your self out of this hole you have yet again dug your self...
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Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
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Posted - 2009.03.24 13:36:00 -
[1301]
Edited by: Electric Universe on 24/03/2009 13:36:32
Originally by: Childstar
Edited by: Childstar on 24/03/2009 13:30:56
Originally by: Electric Universe
Edited by: Electric Universe on 24/03/2009 13:26:03
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: Electric Universe
Oh, by looking here: http://kills.forceofevil.co.uk/?a=alliance_detail&all_id=37&view=ships_weapons
Not that i think a single link makes much of a differance but if you look on YOUR link in the:
MOST USED SHIPS AND WEAPONS LIST
http://kills.forceofevil.co.uk/?a=alliance_detail&all_id=37&view=ships_weapons[/url]
The most use close range BS turret is the MEGA PULSE II.
In fact blasters do not even make it on the list and the only reason megas are on the list is because of rail fitted snipers....
Wow, only because it shows that Mega Pulse Laser II's are most used med range weapons system, and then that you see that the Blasters isn't used because of the range FOE is fighting at, so peoples use rail and artilleries instead, then yeah.
Yes Gallente and Minmatar have to use the Railguns and Artilleries to get up to the same range as Pulses, then it ofc tells me why.
What's your point again?
Well i know you just argue for the sake of it and from reading above about your posts about you main you have terible a memory... But considering this thead is about BS BLASTERS and that link clearly shows NOBODY using them that you posting the link as some sort of proof that blasters are fine is kind of dumb....
But then im sure you wil try to dig/troll your self out of this hole you have yet again dug your self...
But then your dumb, because i was only showing that FoE is even using a Tempest more than any of the Amarr BS'es. That was the reason i linked to that KB.
And we have discussed earlier and i have explained you that because of FoE's play style, Blaster BS'es isn't much used. And Foe are also mainly fighting in 0.0 space anyways, so the Blaster BS argument doesn't count.
So your point again is?.
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Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
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Posted - 2009.03.24 13:40:00 -
[1302]
Edited by: Electric Universe on 24/03/2009 13:44:44
Originally by: Zubakis
Originally by: Electric Universe
Edited by: Electric Universe on 24/03/2009 13:20:46
Originally by: Hell'n
You have no TQ Blaster PvP experience at all.
You are a liar. Nuff said.
Do i need TQ Blaster experience to read some killboards and watch some movies?.
LOL. MORE POPCORN DAMNIT. I'M OUT OF IT.
Now, instead of doing this off topic crap, then can't you guys prove me wrong by giving me proofs that Amarr BS'es is so much more used because they are teh pwnsause, or does it mean i'm totally right here?.
How can you be right about something if you never used it?
How can you say, that people who use EFT and their experience stats to give a proof are not right, when yourself is only reading and watching movies?
The only thing what you've done so far is to say 'I'm right and you cant prove me wrong'. You are right about what? What should we prove?
You did nothing, but only showing how stupid you are.
So wow, nice reply that failed epicly hard to prove my points wrong.
As long no one can even link me to a killboard or to a movie or something that proves me wrong that Blaster BS'es isn't the most popular BS in empire and low sec in RR gangs, then your wrong.
It's not hard to take a look at some killboards from some corps in empire and low sec and then just link the killboard here. Or a movie if you have.
I will say it again. if you want to prove me wrong, you have to prove it to, and just not say i'm wrong only because you say so without even giving a single damn link with proof.
I know you guys are trying desperatly to prove me wrong, but as long the facts says i'm right, then i understand why it's so har to give any proofs to me.
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Childstar
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Posted - 2009.03.24 13:42:00 -
[1303]
Originally by: Electric Universe
Do i need TQ Blaster experience to read some killboards and watch some movies?.
No you do not just to watch a movie but then a movie and KB link only shows those ships being used it does not show if they are balanced or how they compare to other ships as far as effectivness is concerned in todays eve.
Videos could be from ganking a noob or a fool and KB link could be from gate camping pirates who sit in low sec on gates in the ships that they have already trained.
Only actual experiance and statistics count and you have no real experiance and the stats you preach cannot fitted or be used on the actual ships because of cpu/pg issues.
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Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
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Posted - 2009.03.24 13:54:00 -
[1304]
Edited by: Electric Universe on 24/03/2009 13:55:04
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: Electric Universe
But then your dumb, because i was only showing that FoE is even using a Tempest more than any of the Amarr BS'es. That was the reason i linked to that KB.
And we have discussed earlier and i have explained you that because of FoE's play style, Blaster BS'es isn't much used. And Foe are also mainly fighting in 0.0 space anyways, so the Blaster BS argument doesn't count.
So your point again is?.
The point is that the point seems to be totally beyond you.
This thread is about blaster ships being poor in todays eve not about laser ships being good.
Do you think that if blaster ships were any use that the ppl in that link would be using rails instead?.
You may have not intended to make the point about blasters being a poor choice with that link but you clearly did and you do not seem to be taking it well....
The FoE kb link only showed that because of FoE's play style and the range they are fighting at. Then MANY are using Rails and Arties. Because Rail and Arties are the only weapon Gallente and Minmatar can use at those ranges.
So then Amarr ships use Mega Pulse Laser II's because that weapon is the perfect weapon FOR AMARR on those ranges FoE is using to fight at.
Again, your point is?.
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Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
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Posted - 2009.03.24 14:00:00 -
[1305]
Edited by: Electric Universe on 24/03/2009 14:03:33
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: Electric Universe
Clearly, if the ship had been as poor as you say it is, then they for sure would cross train to Amarr.
BUT WHY ISN'T THAT THE CASE?.
It is poor and ppl are training over including myself, but i know NOBODY who is training amarrr that is going to stop doing so and start training gallente...
Yeah, and it's going to take another 5 years to cross train so many Gallente players to Amarr so it can be more Amarr players than it is Gallente?.
Maybe you should do it a bit faster LOL.
LOL, even after the Amarr FOTM started 1 year and 2 months ago, there haven't been so much more Amarr players tbh. Maybe a little, but that's all.
What i'm seeing is more Gallente players instead. Or Caldari because that's the race most noobs start to use.
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GTC seller72
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Posted - 2009.03.24 14:04:00 -
[1306]
Originally by: Zubakis
Originally by: Electric Universe
So wow, nice reply that failed epicly hard to prove my points wrong.
As long no one can even link me to a killboard or to a movie or something that proves me wrong that Blaster BS'es isn't the most popular BS in empire and low sec in RR gangs, then your wrong.
It's not hard to take a look at some killboards from some corps in empire and low sec and then just link the killboard here. Or a movie if you have.
I will say it again. if you want to prove me wrong, you have to prove it to, and just not say i'm wrong only because you say so without even giving a single damn link with proof.
I know you guys are trying desperatly to prove me wrong, but as long the facts says i'm right, then i understand why it's so har to give any proofs to me.
Why should i prove you wrong, when you didnt proved that you are right? What 'FACTS' say that you are right? Once again, the only thing you did so far is to say 'I'm right', thats all.
Its all he ever does, he thinks that just because ppl still use megas ect that it proves every thing is fine instead of understanding that they can be poor but still useable and also that it takes ppl time to cross trian another races BS.
And thats if they are not doing hacs or capitals ect and want to finish those first.
He has found a argument that actually proves nothing apart from in the past ppl trained gallente and still fly the ships for now, and he is using it to exhagerate its meaning into what he considers to be "proof" that blaster BS are wonderful.
He is also exhagerating its meaning and waving it around as what he considers to be "proof" that ppl with actual game time experiance in the ships and the stats they provide are wrong...
Its a fake argument bsaed on circumstantial evedence and expanded into a delusional and personal reality that he feels "proves" everybody else wrong and him right about every thing he has ever said on the topic.
Its very disturbing when you also consider the lies and maipulations he has used about his main nightmareX and his inability and unwillingness to seperate reality from total fiction even when fully confronted with it..
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Childstar
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Posted - 2009.03.24 14:06:00 -
[1307]
Originally by: Electric Universe
The FoE kb link only showed that because of FoE's play style and the range they are fighting at. Then MANY are using Rails and Arties. Because Rail and Arties are the only weapon Gallente and Minmatar can use at those ranges.
So then Amarr ships use Mega Pulse Laser II's because that weapon is the perfect weapon FOR AMARR on those ranges FoE is using to fight at.
Again, your point is?.
That if blaster BS were as good as you claim they would not need to use rails and work at range, they could work in close and "pwn" as you call it...
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Theron Gyrow
Gradient
Electus Matari
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Posted - 2009.03.24 14:08:00 -
[1308]
For NightmareX:
Atomic Battle Penguins. One of the main makers of films showing remote repping battleships. The #1 weapon in their killboard? Mega Pulse II.
Given that they _did_ use Megas a lot earlier, I imagine that the pulse will gain more lead over time.
--
Gradient forum |
Childstar
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Posted - 2009.03.24 14:10:00 -
[1309]
Originally by: Electric Universe
Edited by: Electric Universe on 24/03/2009 14:03:33
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: Electric Universe
Clearly, if the ship had been as poor as you say it is, then they for sure would cross train to Amarr.
BUT WHY ISN'T THAT THE CASE?.
It is poor and ppl are training over including myself, but i know NOBODY who is training amarrr that is going to stop doing so and start training gallente...
Yeah, and it's going to take another 5 years to cross train so many Gallente players to Amarr so it can be more Amarr players than it is Gallente?.
Maybe you should do it a bit faster LOL.
LOL, even after the Amarr FOTM started 1 year and 2 months ago, there haven't been so much more Amarr players tbh. Maybe a little, but that's all.
What i'm seeing is more Gallente players instead. Or Caldari because that's the race most noobs start to use.
FACT ppl asking on the forums for the best race to train for pvp are not told gallente.
They are toild amarr or in some casses mini depending on what type of pvp they prefer, but mostly amaar.
And amarr fotm did not start 1 yr 2 months ago it started after the web/nano nerf and even then it took a while for the changes to sink in and for ppl to realise how eve had changed and what were the best ships for it.
This thread is a fine example of those changes still being in progress.
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Childstar
|
Posted - 2009.03.24 14:12:00 -
[1310]
Originally by: Theron Gyrow
For NightmareX:
Atomic Battle Penguins. One of the main makers of films showing remote repping battleships. The #1 weapon in their killboard? Mega Pulse II.
Given that they _did_ use Megas a lot earlier, I imagine that the pulse will gain more lead over time.
LULZ he used ABP videos to try and make a point about blasters being fine and now the very corp he used as his poster child has switched or is in the process or switching to using PULSE BS.
PWND...
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|
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Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
|
Posted - 2009.03.24 14:13:00 -
[1311]
Originally by: GTC seller72
Originally by: Zubakis
Originally by: Electric Universe
So wow, nice reply that failed epicly hard to prove my points wrong.
As long no one can even link me to a killboard or to a movie or something that proves me wrong that Blaster BS'es isn't the most popular BS in empire and low sec in RR gangs, then your wrong.
It's not hard to take a look at some killboards from some corps in empire and low sec and then just link the killboard here. Or a movie if you have.
I will say it again. if you want to prove me wrong, you have to prove it to, and just not say i'm wrong only because you say so without even giving a single damn link with proof.
I know you guys are trying desperatly to prove me wrong, but as long the facts says i'm right, then i understand why it's so har to give any proofs to me.
Why should i prove you wrong, when you didnt proved that you are right? What 'FACTS' say that you are right? Once again, the only thing you did so far is to say 'I'm right', thats all.
Its all he ever does, he thinks that just because ppl still use megas ect that it proves every thing is fine instead of understanding that they can be poor but still useable and also that it takes ppl time to cross trian another races BS.
And thats if they are not doing hacs or capitals ect and want to finish those first.
He has found a argument that actually proves nothing apart from in the past ppl trained gallente and still fly the ships for now, and he is using it to exhagerate its meaning into what he considers to be "proof" that blaster BS are wonderful.
He is also exhagerating its meaning and waving it around as what he considers to be "proof" that ppl with actual game time experiance in the ships and the stats they provide are wrong...
Its a fake argument bsaed on circumstantial evedence and expanded into a delusional and personal reality that he feels "proves" everybody else wrong and him right about every thing he has ever said on the topic.
Its very disturbing when you also consider the lies and maipulations he has used about his main nightmareX and his inability and unwillingness to seperate reality from total fiction even when fully confronted with it..
Says the very experienced alt.
Yes if you have problems with NightmareX being my brother, then just mail / eve-mail him with your fustrations.
Well, you can say whatever you want, but still, it's not going to change anything in the facts that when the Blaster Megathron is the most popular gank RR BS top use in gangs in empire and low sec, the ship must be good at something, right?.
I will never believe that a ship is poor and then someone just use it because they can.
And only because some players that can't use the Blaster Mega right and then moan that the Blaster Mega have issues. Then it doesn't mean the ship or weapon system have issues. I think the issues are between the monitor and the chair.
If Amarr would be any better, then why are so few going to Amarr then?.
Yes Amarr got a little boost some time ago, and they deserved it, and that's why more players are going for them now.
But with this speed, it's going to take another 5 years before Amarr even get up to 50% of how many Gallente players there is.
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Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
|
Posted - 2009.03.24 14:15:00 -
[1312]
Edited by: Electric Universe on 24/03/2009 14:16:12
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: Theron Gyrow
For NightmareX:
Atomic Battle Penguins. One of the main makers of films showing remote repping battleships. The #1 weapon in their killboard? Mega Pulse II.
Given that they _did_ use Megas a lot earlier, I imagine that the pulse will gain more lead over time.
LULZ he used ABP videos to try and make a point about blasters being fine and now the very corp he used as his poster child has switched or is in the process or switching to using PULSE BS.
PWND...
But then, how many times are the Mega used over the Amarr BS'es?.
The Megathron is even used more than the Abaddon and Armageddon is used together.
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GTC seller72
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Posted - 2009.03.24 14:17:00 -
[1313]
Originally by: Electric Universe
If Amarr would be any better, then why are so few going to Amarr then?.
Maybe you shouls post your ABP vid again before they replace it with a up to date one that has them in pulse ships....
Originally by: Theron Gyrow
For NightmareX:
Atomic Battle Penguins. One of the main makers of films showing remote repping battleships. The #1 weapon in their killboard? Mega Pulse II.
Given that they _did_ use Megas a lot earlier, I imagine that the pulse will gain more lead over time.
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Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
|
Posted - 2009.03.24 14:19:00 -
[1314]
Originally by: GTC seller72
Originally by: Electric Universe
If Amarr would be any better, then why are so few going to Amarr then?.
Maybe you shouls post your ABP vid again before they replace it with a up to date one that has them in pulse ships....
Originally by: Theron Gyrow
For NightmareX:
Atomic Battle Penguins. One of the main makers of films showing remote repping battleships. The #1 weapon in their killboard? Mega Pulse II.
Given that they _did_ use Megas a lot earlier, I imagine that the pulse will gain more lead over time.
I'm looking forward to their next movie.
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Childstar
|
Posted - 2009.03.24 14:24:00 -
[1315]
Edited by: Childstar on 24/03/2009 14:25:20
Originally by: Electric Universe
Edited by: Electric Universe on 24/03/2009 14:18:20
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: Theron Gyrow
For NightmareX:
Atomic Battle Penguins. One of the main makers of films showing remote repping battleships. The #1 weapon in their killboard? Mega Pulse II.
Given that they _did_ use Megas a lot earlier, I imagine that the pulse will gain more lead over time.
LULZ he used ABP videos to try and make a point about blasters being fine and now the very corp he used as his poster child has switched or is in the process or switching to using PULSE BS.
PWND...
But then, how many times are the Mega used over the Amarr BS'es?.
The Megathron is even used more than the Abaddon and Armageddon is used together.
Like you have been told things have changed and i guess you will need to find another corp to fanboi over now that one has switched to pulse.
Oh and FYI MEGA PULSE are being used by ABP more than nuetron blasters if you look at weapons used...
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Zubakis
Bambooule
|
Posted - 2009.03.24 14:25:00 -
[1316]
Originally by: Electric Universe
Well, you can say whatever you want, but still, it's not going to change anything in the facts that when the Blaster Megathron is the most popular gank RR BS top use in gangs in empire and low sec, the ship must be good at something, right?.
Once again, you just state it, but didnt brought any proofs for that. On which facts do you build your assumptions, that this is the most popular 'gank RR BS in lowsec and empire'?
-- Zuba |
Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
|
Posted - 2009.03.24 14:26:00 -
[1317]
Edited by: Electric Universe on 24/03/2009 14:31:23
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: Electric Universe
Edited by: Electric Universe on 24/03/2009 14:18:20
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: Theron Gyrow
For NightmareX:
Atomic Battle Penguins. One of the main makers of films showing remote repping battleships. The #1 weapon in their killboard? Mega Pulse II.
Given that they _did_ use Megas a lot earlier, I imagine that the pulse will gain more lead over time.
LULZ he used ABP videos to try and make a point about blasters being fine and now the very corp he used as his poster child has switched or is in the process or switching to using PULSE BS.
PWND...
But then, how many times are the Mega used over the Amarr BS'es?.
The Megathron is even used more than the Abaddon and Armageddon is used together.
Like you have been told things have changed and i guess you will need to find another corp to fanboi over now that one has switched to pulse.
Oh and FYI PULSE are being used by ABP more than blasters if you look at weapons used...
Look at my reply over about the Mega Pulses.
Yeah, i'm looking forward to the Amarr BS'es being used more than Blaster Megas or other fitted Megas in 5-6 years.
See you then, maybe we can talk then?.
Originally by: Zubakis
Originally by: Electric Universe
Well, you can say whatever you want, but still, it's not going to change anything in the facts that when the Blaster Megathron is the most popular gank RR BS top use in gangs in empire and low sec, the ship must be good at something, right?.
Once again, you just state it, but didnt brought any proofs for that. On which facts do you build your assumptions, that this is the most popular 'gank RR BS in lowsec and empire'?
It's the fact.
Like i have said, it's not hard to look over some killboards to see what kind of ships that is most used etc for empire and low sec corps for RR BS gangs TODAY.
Movies also shows that the Blaster Megas are quite used now.
I don't care what others might think or say, but when the Blaster Megathron is working very good for MANY, then i can for sure can get it to work very good to.
It's all about being smart and use your brain.
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Childstar
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Posted - 2009.03.24 14:31:00 -
[1318]
Originally by: Electric Universe
Yeah, i'm looking forward to the Amarr BS'es being used more than Blaster Megas or other fitted Megas in 5-6 years.
See you then, maybe we can talk then?.
I have no problem at all with the thought of you shutting the .... up for 5-6 years.
But then i doubt that was what you meant as you yet again resorted to exhageration and leaps to conclusions that do not exist...
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Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
|
Posted - 2009.03.24 14:36:00 -
[1319]
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: Electric Universe
Yeah, i'm looking forward to the Amarr BS'es being used more than Blaster Megas or other fitted Megas in 5-6 years.
See you then, maybe we can talk then?.
I have no problem at all with the thought of you shutting the .... up for 5-6 years.
But then i doubt that was what you meant as you yet again resorted to exhageration and leaps to conclusions that do not exist...
Aw boohoo.
Instead of emo crying here, can you please give me some proofs that Amarr BS'es is so popular in RR BS gangs today?.
Surely there have to be some proofs somewhere if that's the case. Right?.
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GTC seller72
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Posted - 2009.03.24 14:41:00 -
[1320]
Edited by: GTC seller72 on 24/03/2009 14:44:32
A typical nightmareX alt conclusion based on a totally subjective and unconnected fact to the issue at hand.
Originally by: Electric Universe
I don't care what others might think or say, but when the Blaster Megathron is working very good for MANY, then i can for sure can get it to work very good to.
See in his mind...ppl trained gallente blaster BS in the past, therefore by flying the by flying the BS in the past and now they MUST be proving that blaster BS are ok now....
It utterly ignores the time line or that ppl may only have gallente trained, or they are in training amarr as we speak, or they are doing other skill training for caps ect, or that they are looking to get blasters fixed by starting or posting in threads like this one...ect ect.
NOOOO none of the rational arguments will be considered, the ONLY thing considered in his mind is the fact that blasters BS are actually flown and so must be perfect...
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Childstar
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Posted - 2009.03.24 14:43:00 -
[1321]
Originally by: Electric Universe
Can you please give me some proofs that Amarr BS'es is so popular in RR BS gangs today?.
Surely there have to be some proofs somewhere if that's the case. Right?.
Most used weapon MEGA PULSE II.
Mega Pulse II
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Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
|
Posted - 2009.03.24 14:47:00 -
[1322]
Originally by: GTC seller72
A typical nightmareX alt conclusion based on a totally subjective and unconnected fact to the issue at hand.
Originally by: Electric Universe
I don't care what others might think or say, but when the Blaster Megathron is working very good for MANY, then i can for sure can get it to work very good to.
See in his mind...ppl trained gallente blaster BS in the past, therefore by flying the by flying the BS now they have trained they MUST be proving that blaster BS are ok....
It utterly ignores the time line or that ppl may only have gallente trained, or they are in training amarr as we speak, or they are doing other skill training for caps ect, or that they are looking to get blasters fixed by starting or posting in threads like this one...ect ect.
NOOOO none of the rational arguments will be considered, the ONLY thing considered in his mind is the fact that blasters BS are actually flown and so must be perfect...
And still, when lots of players STILL are using Blaster megas and still get them to work really really nice, they must for sure do something right.
The only players who are going from Gallente to Amarr is because omg Gallente is now hard more and booohooo, it's to hard to think before PVPing.
Amarr is easy mode and what do you expect when that's the case?.
More will go over to Amarr because of that, not because Amarr is so much better.
A good example is Bellum. Before when he was using the Megas, the Megas was more of the easy mode before web and speed got nerfed, then he went over to Amarr after the nerf because he was used to be in easy mode and because booohooo they nerfed the ultimate pwn machine for him.
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Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
|
Posted - 2009.03.24 14:53:00 -
[1323]
Edited by: Electric Universe on 24/03/2009 14:53:41
Originally by: Childstar
Edited by: Childstar on 24/03/2009 14:47:19
Originally by: Electric Universe
Can you please give me some proofs that Amarr BS'es is so popular in RR BS gangs today?.
Surely there have to be some proofs somewhere if that's the case. Right?.
Most used weapon MEGA PULSE II.
Mega Pulse II
Now these weapons tend to be fitted on amarr BS mostly as far as im aware???....
So your saying that the Mega Pulses are a ship?.
Congrats for not reading what i said here: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1016708&page=43#1269
Still, it's 1 year and 2 months since the Amarr boost, and still they are way way behind a Megathron in most used ships.
I'm not denying that Amarr BS'es is not going to be more used. All i'm saying is that with the speed of cross training from Gallente to Amarr that is now, it's going to take at least 5 more years before Amarr BS'es will get on top of most used ships.
But then, before that time, many things with ships in EVE could have changed alot before that though.
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Goumindong
Amarr
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.03.24 14:56:00 -
[1324]
Originally by: Bellum Eternus
Caught up and got smart? QR happened, agility got buffed and now everything can warp away before a BS with a single sensor booster can catch it. And even if something *is* caught, it gets back to the gate and jumps out due to the web nerf.
Are you sure it wasn't when lasers got a tracking boost? Or maybe it was when rigs and tier 3 battleships were introduced? You made the same claims that blasters were useless then. But i suppose its really true now right? And that we should take your word for it this time when all the other times it was a lie?
Maybe you're just attributing a gradual change in the quality of your opponents to changes in the game.
If CCP went back on their web deal(which would make amarr stronger), the next time they changed anything that did anything you would rush to the forums to declare that blasters were ruined and that CCP must fix the issue now
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GTC seller72
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Posted - 2009.03.24 14:59:00 -
[1325]
Edited by: GTC seller72 on 24/03/2009 14:59:54
I think the devs should lock this thread.
NightmareX's alt has finnally found a self supporting (il)logic loop and looks like he is going to spam every detailed and resonable post with it.
Either that or everybody should just report him and get the devs to ban this alt as well as his main.
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Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
|
Posted - 2009.03.24 15:04:00 -
[1326]
Originally by: GTC seller72
Edited by: GTC seller72 on 24/03/2009 14:59:54
I think the devs should lock this thread.
NightmareX's alt has finnally found a self supporting (il)logic loop and looks like he is going to spam every detailed and resonable post with it.
Either that or everybody should just report him and get the devs to ban this alt as well as his main.
Oh noes, an alt is feeling that he can't do anything else than giving up when he get the facts punched into the face.
And then just cry lock this topic and whine about giving me a ban.
LOL nice one.
NightmareX is still banned for 5 days. And he is still my brother.
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Goumindong
Amarr
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.03.24 15:07:00 -
[1327]
Originally by: Childstar
Belief cannot stand against the truth.
Be sure to let every religious person in the world know that, Oh, and anyone serious about scholarly work in economics, psychology, or politics. TIA
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Mag's
the united
Negative Ten.
|
Posted - 2009.03.24 15:11:00 -
[1328]
Originally by: Electric Universe
Still, it's 1 year and 2 months since the Amarr boost, and still they are way way behind a Megathron in most used ships.
I'm not denying that Amarr BS'es is not going to be more used. All i'm saying is that with the speed of cross training from Gallente to Amarr that is now, it's going to take at least 5 more years before Amarr BS'es will get on top of most used ships.
But then, before that time, many things with ships in EVE could have changed alot before that though.
Not sure what 1 year 2 months has to do with anything, I decided to start Amarr when they nerfed webs, that wasn't that long ago.
It showed up the Tracking issue with Blasters at their optimal.
So I finished off some skills and I am now 6 days off Medium Energy Turret 5.
I'm sure NightmareX will call me names and stuff now so, fire away.
P.S. Great ownage by others here, made me laugh IRL.
Regards
Mag's |
Childstar
|
Posted - 2009.03.24 15:16:00 -
[1329]
Originally by: Electric Universe
Edited by: Electric Universe on 24/03/2009 14:53:41
Originally by: Childstar
Edited by: Childstar on 24/03/2009 14:47:19
Originally by: Electric Universe
Can you please give me some proofs that Amarr BS'es is so popular in RR BS gangs today?.
Surely there have to be some proofs somewhere if that's the case. Right?.
Most used weapon MEGA PULSE II.
Mega Pulse II
Now these weapons tend to be fitted on amarr BS mostly as far as im aware???....
So your saying that the Mega Pulses are a ship?.
Looking at ships used is stupid as ships can be fitted lots of differant ways like with rails ect ect, you look at weapons used for the truth of things.
MEGA PULSE are the MOST used weapon that amarr BS are the most used close range BS in that corp, PULSE fit on amarr BS.
Actually because the mega is at the top of the used ships list by quite a large margin and blasters are below pulse on used weapons it does give a good indication how much pulse are used and how little blasters are used compared to their races ships......
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Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
|
Posted - 2009.03.24 15:16:00 -
[1330]
Originally by: Mag's
Originally by: Electric Universe
Still, it's 1 year and 2 months since the Amarr boost, and still they are way way behind a Megathron in most used ships.
I'm not denying that Amarr BS'es is not going to be more used. All i'm saying is that with the speed of cross training from Gallente to Amarr that is now, it's going to take at least 5 more years before Amarr BS'es will get on top of most used ships.
But then, before that time, many things with ships in EVE could have changed alot before that though.
Not sure what 1 year 2 months has to do with anything, I decided to start Amarr when they nerfed webs, that wasn't that long ago.
It showed up the Tracking issue with Blasters at their optimal.
So I finished off some skills and I am now 6 days off Medium Energy Turret 5.
I'm sure NightmareX will call me names and stuff now so, fire away.
P.S. Great ownage by others here, made me laugh IRL.
|
|
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Mag's
the united
Negative Ten.
|
Posted - 2009.03.24 15:22:00 -
[1331]
Originally by: Electric Universe
Surfed for a pic, just for me.....
Thanks, you never fail to impress to me and others, what type of person you are.
Regards
Mag's |
Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
|
Posted - 2009.03.24 15:25:00 -
[1332]
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: Electric Universe
Edited by: Electric Universe on 24/03/2009 14:53:41
Originally by: Childstar
Edited by: Childstar on 24/03/2009 14:47:19
Originally by: Electric Universe
Can you please give me some proofs that Amarr BS'es is so popular in RR BS gangs today?.
Surely there have to be some proofs somewhere if that's the case. Right?.
Most used weapon MEGA PULSE II.
Mega Pulse II
Now these weapons tend to be fitted on amarr BS mostly as far as im aware???....
So your saying that the Mega Pulses are a ship?.
Looking at ships used is stupid as ships can be fitted lots of differant ways like with rails ect ect, you look at weapons used for the truth of things.
So you mean that if the Lasers get way more kills than Blasters because of the range to Lasers are the only thing that proves that Amarr BS'es is most used in RR BS gangs, then your wrong.
Lasers gets lots of kills because it's extremely easy to just sit in an Amarr BS and just insta pop some frigs at med ranges where Blasters can't insta pop frigs and that.
It's not science to understand that.
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GTC seller72
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Posted - 2009.03.24 15:25:00 -
[1333]
Originally by: Electric Universe
And just to add, the Amarr FOTM thing started after Lasers got the boost that was back in Jauary 2008. The web and speed nerf was not the reason for the Amarr FOTM.
Because if i admit it was the speed nerf as well as add adjustment time for people to get used to the changes in ships abilities and develop new tactics as well as finish training skills i cannot say that they have had 1 yr 2 month to train amaar in...
Fixed.
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Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
|
Posted - 2009.03.24 15:27:00 -
[1334]
Edited by: Electric Universe on 24/03/2009 15:30:43
Originally by: GTC seller72
Originally by: Electric Universe
And just to add, the Amarr FOTM thing started after Lasers got the boost that was back in Jauary 2008. The web and speed nerf was not the reason for the Amarr FOTM.
Because if i admit it was the speed nerf as well as add adjustment time for people to get used to the changes in ships abilities and develop new tactics as well as finish training skills i cannot say that they have had 1 yr 2 month to train amaar in...
Fixed.
Nice way of editing others reply just to prove nothing.
And you talk about get used to the changes in ships abilities and develop new tactics.
What do you think the Blaster Mega pilots did do after the web and speed nerf?.
Dude, they got smarter. They found new ways to still make the Blaster Megas extremely good in RR BS gangs.
Ops, i think you pwned your self again.
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Childstar
|
Posted - 2009.03.24 15:30:00 -
[1335]
Originally by: Electric Universe
So you mean that if the Lasers get way more kills than Blasters because of the range to Lasers are the only thing that proves that Amarr BS'es is most used in RR BS gangs, then your wrong.
See you are starting to understand why lasers are so much better and how the shortcommings of blasters makes what little more damage they may do against very rarely used tanks rather insignificant.
And i thought you said ppl used blasters cos they were uber....
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Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
|
Posted - 2009.03.24 15:33:00 -
[1336]
Edited by: Electric Universe on 24/03/2009 15:33:37
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: Electric Universe
So you mean that if the Lasers get way more kills than Blasters because of the range to Lasers are the only thing that proves that Amarr BS'es is most used in RR BS gangs, then your wrong.
See you are starting to understand why lasers are so much better and how the shortcommings of blasters makes what little more damage they may do against very rarely used tanks rather insignificant.
And i thought you said ppl used blasters cos they were uber....
I don't take Lasers to be better only because it's easy mode and because you can instapop frigs much easier than Blasters at med ranges to get more kills than Blasters.
Like i said, with Blaster BS'es you have to work for your kills and it pays off if you work for it to.
Amarr BS'es is just pressing some F buttons and then watch the fireworks.
I don't think pressing some F buttons is hard work.
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Zubakis
Bambooule
|
Posted - 2009.03.24 15:35:00 -
[1337]
Originally by: Electric Universe
It's the fact.
Like i have said, it's not hard to look over some killboards to see what kind of ships that is most used etc for empire and low sec corps for RR BS gangs TODAY.
Movies also shows that the Blaster Megas are quite used now.
I don't care what others might think or say, but when the Blaster Megathron is working very good for MANY, then i can for sure can get it to work very good to.
It's all about being smart and use your brain.
It's not a fact. Proof or ....
If it's not hard to look for the proof, then look for it and bring it here. Oh, i see, you tried it already, and runned with excuse 'they dont use blasters, because it's their playstyle'.
And then to the movies. You saying that people's experience, who used blasters for years is useless. But some **** movies proves everything.
-- Zuba |
Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
|
Posted - 2009.03.24 15:36:00 -
[1338]
Edited by: Electric Universe on 24/03/2009 15:39:49
Originally by: Zubakis
Originally by: Electric Universe
It's the fact.
Like i have said, it's not hard to look over some killboards to see what kind of ships that is most used etc for empire and low sec corps for RR BS gangs TODAY.
Movies also shows that the Blaster Megas are quite used now.
I don't care what others might think or say, but when the Blaster Megathron is working very good for MANY, then i can for sure can get it to work very good to.
It's all about being smart and use your brain.
It's not a fact. Proof or ....
If it's not hard to look for the proof, then look for it and bring it here. Oh, i see, you tried it already, and runned with excuse 'they dont use blasters, because it's their playstyle'.
And then to the movies. You saying that people's experience, who used blasters for years is useless. But some **** movies proves everything.
It's not a fact?, then why can't you give a proof that it's not true then?.
I have asked YOU here many times to prove me wrong, but you fail to do it.
So i'll guess i'm right until proven wrong.
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GTC seller72
|
Posted - 2009.03.24 15:38:00 -
[1339]
Originally by: Electric Universe
Originally by: GTC seller72
Originally by: Electric Universe
And just to add, the Amarr FOTM thing started after Lasers got the boost that was back in Jauary 2008. The web and speed nerf was not the reason for the Amarr FOTM.
Because if i admit it was the speed nerf as well as add adjustment time for people to get used to the changes in ships abilities and develop new tactics as well as finish training skills i cannot say that they have had 1 yr 2 month to train amaar in...
Fixed.
Nice way of editing others reply just to prove nothing.
And you talk about get used to the changes in ships abilities and develop new tactics.
What do you think the Blaster Mega pilots did do after the web and speed nerf?.
Your right everybody already knows your a liar and a manipulator its not like we need more proof.
A lot of them like me tested the changes and saw how much it altered eve BS pvp to be a lot more gang related, saw how poorly blaster BS performed as they had weak tanks with a large hole in and a awful damage/range ratio compared to other races so we finished what they were currantly training and started on amarr......
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Mag's
the united
Negative Ten.
|
Posted - 2009.03.24 15:39:00 -
[1340]
Originally by: Electric Universe
Edited by: Electric Universe on 24/03/2009 15:36:04
Best and most informative post so far.
Regards
Mag's |
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Goumindong
Amarr
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.03.24 15:41:00 -
[1341]
Originally by: Childstar
Looking at ships used is stupid as ships can be fitted lots of differant ways like with rails ect ect, you look at weapons used for the truth of things.
MEGA PULSE are the MOST used weapon that amarr BS are the most used close range BS in that corp, PULSE fit on amarr BS.
Actually because the mega is at the top of the used ships list by quite a large margin and blasters are below pulse on used weapons it does give a good indication how much pulse are used and how little blasters are used compared to their races ships......
Or its that killmails may not be reporting weapons correctly.
That or its possible that i am fitting Omens on the Omens i fly... To give an example of this happening.
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Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
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Posted - 2009.03.24 15:41:00 -
[1342]
Originally by: Mag's
Originally by: Electric Universe
Edited by: Electric Universe on 24/03/2009 15:36:04
Best and most informative post so far.
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1016708&page=44#1295
Anyways, off for some few hours.
Have fun here with the epic whining.
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Childstar
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Posted - 2009.03.24 15:47:00 -
[1343]
Edited by: Childstar on 24/03/2009 15:48:39
Originally by: Goumindong
Originally by: Childstar
Looking at ships used is stupid as ships can be fitted lots of differant ways like with rails ect ect, you look at weapons used for the truth of things.
MEGA PULSE are the MOST used weapon that amarr BS are the most used close range BS in that corp, PULSE fit on amarr BS.
Actually because the mega is at the top of the used ships list by quite a large margin and blasters are below pulse on used weapons it does give a good indication how much pulse are used and how little blasters are used compared to their races ships......
Or its that killmails may not be reporting weapons correctly.
That or its possible that i am fitting Omens on the Omens i fly... To give an example of this happening.
Would you search for and use that excuse if the thread showed blasters as the most used weapon?.
Are spelling errors, comments on belief systems and points about killboards being broken all you have to add?.
And if thats all you did have to add why not do so when nightmareX's alt was posting stupid KB links all over the thread?.
You preach about balance but the truth is your amarr and biased in their favor and it shows in every post you make or do not make depending on what side of the fence it is on.
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Kagura Nikon
Minmatar
M. Corp
|
Posted - 2009.03.24 15:49:00 -
[1344]
You guys are so funny !!!
This is almost like CAOD!!
-------------------------------------------------
If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
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Zubakis
Bambooule
|
Posted - 2009.03.24 15:51:00 -
[1345]
Originally by: Electric Universe
Edited by: Electric Universe on 24/03/2009 15:39:49
Originally by: Zubakis
Originally by: Electric Universe
It's the fact.
Like i have said, it's not hard to look over some killboards to see what kind of ships that is most used etc for empire and low sec corps for RR BS gangs TODAY.
Movies also shows that the Blaster Megas are quite used now.
I don't care what others might think or say, but when the Blaster Megathron is working very good for MANY, then i can for sure can get it to work very good to.
It's all about being smart and use your brain.
It's not a fact. Proof or ....
If it's not hard to look for the proof, then look for it and bring it here. Oh, i see, you tried it already, and runned with excuse 'they dont use blasters, because it's their playstyle'.
And then to the movies. You saying that people's experience, who used blasters for years is useless. But some **** movies proves everything.
It's not a fact?, then why can't you give a proof that it's not true then?.
I have asked YOU here many times to prove me wrong, but you fail to do it.
So i'll guess i'm right until proven wrong.
Because you didnt proved that you are right!!!
So i'll guess you are wrong until you proven you are right.
See it works the other way too.
-- Zuba |
Mag's
the united
Negative Ten.
|
Posted - 2009.03.24 15:51:00 -
[1346]
Originally by: Kagura Nikon
You guys are so funny !!!
This is almost like CAOD!!
QFT
Regards
Mag's |
Goumindong
Amarr
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.03.24 15:56:00 -
[1347]
Originally by: Childstar
Would you search for and use that excuse if the thread showed blasters as the most used weapon?.
If Megas were also the most used ship? Maybe, maybe not. If i was looking at a corp that did a lot of long range combat like rails i would certainly start looking.
Quote:
Are spelling errors, comments on belief systems and points about killboards being broken all you have to add?.
Still waiting on you to tell me where you kicked that field goal from so i can fact check your work.
Points about killboards being broken are relevant to the discussion.
So were the points about belief, unless you're saying that your entire post was pointless.
What did i spell wrong and what does that have to do with the discussion?
Quote:
And if thats all you did have to add why not do so when nightmareX's alt was posting stupid links all over the thread?.
I cannot respond to everything, I am sure that you can point out how dumb it is well enough.
Quote:
You preach about balance but thew truth is your amarr and biased in their favor and it shows in ever post you make or do not make depending on what side of the fence it is on.
Ahh, back to the ad-hom Murina? I had such high hopes for this last iteration. [P.S. "the", "you're", and "?"]
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Childstar
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Posted - 2009.03.24 15:58:00 -
[1348]
Edited by: Childstar on 24/03/2009 16:02:17
MEGA vs ABADDON RR FIT COMPARISON.
The abaddon has 75.7 thermal and 71.9 kinetic resists and the mega does 58% more kinetic DMG with its guns than thermal so including the drones and after the abaddons resists:
Your mega starts with 7 guns and RR with 832 gun dps and 300 drone dps to be assigned.
300 thermal drone dmg from gaurd less 75.7% = 72.9 DPS.
482.56 kinetic damage from its guns less 71.9% = 135.6 DPS.
394.44 thermal damage from its guns less 75.7% = 84.9 DPS.
YOUR MEGA GETS A TOTAL OF 293.4 MAX DPS AT 4.5KM vs THE ABADDON.
4. Your mega has 73.4 em, 65.5 thermal resists and the abaddon does 58% more EM dmg with its guns than thermal so including the drones and after the megas resists:
The abaddon starts with 7 guns and RR with 802 gun dps and 180 drone dps to be assigned.
180 thr drone dmg less 65.5% = 62.1 DPS.
465.16 gun em damage less 73.4% = 123.8 DPS.
336.84 gun th damage less 65.5% = 116.2 DPS.
THE ABAD GETS A TOTAL OF 302.1 MAX DPS AT 15KM vs YOUR MEGA.
THE ABAD GETS A TOTAL OF 302.1 MAX DPS AFTER RESISTS AT 15KM vs THE MEGA.
THE MEGA GETS A TOTAL OF 293.4 MAX DPS AFTER RESISTS AT 4.5KM vs THE ABAD.
The mega actually has 3% LESS DPS and 300% less range, and a WEAK 52.2% explosive resist hole and also has 18% LESS EHP.
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Childstar
|
Posted - 2009.03.24 15:59:00 -
[1349]
Edited by: Childstar on 24/03/2009 16:01:39
Phoon dmg vs mega dmg against the ledgendary "UNBER DMG WITH BLASTERS VS OMNI TANK"....
Mega gets 1132 max raw dmg.
Typo gets 1006 max raw dmg.
RR Phoon gets 382 dps after/against FULL omni tank resistances.
RR Megas gets 356 dps after/against FULL omni tank resistances.
The joke is thart the mega cannot fit the FULL omni tank and the phoon does not cos its gets better overall resists with a hardener/dcu/twin plate setup.
Oh and in their ACTUAL AVAILABLE fits...
The phoon hits the mega for 422.3 dps after the megas resists.
The mega hits the phoon for 311.3 dps after the phoons resists.
As you can see the phoon fit tanks blasters better than the omni tank 311.3/356 so well over 10% better. As well as doing more damage against the mega than the FULL omni tank as the mega cannot fit it 422.3/382 so this time just under 10%..
The phoons fit has 118,112ehp and nice balanced all over resistance coverage from 65.6 to 75.1.
The megas fit has 115,436ehp and a dirty great explosive hole (52.2) along with weaker thermal and kinetic (both 65.5) resists than the phoon...
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arbiter reborn
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Posted - 2009.03.24 15:59:00 -
[1350]
Edited by: arbiter reborn on 24/03/2009 16:01:34
this has turned into lasers v blastrers discussion, which i must say is rediculous cos they have completely different roles,, completely
il add that, just because everyone else soak tanks them doesnt mean megas should be soak tanked, dual rep megas are winsauce, anyone remeber farjungs old vids
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Mila Prestoc
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Posted - 2009.03.24 16:04:00 -
[1351]
It's really quite amazing topics like these, because anywhere else (alliance/corp/shc/msn) there is nothing like the emo-ness going on, hell people even recommend Gallente BS's.
Originally by: Childstar
You clearly still do not get the point, the difference between a ANP and a EANM is 5%, before stacking penalties. You realise how much change that would make on the graphs produced? It would change a tank modifier from say 2.7 to 2.6 so would change DPS by about 10, at most, FOR ALL WEAPONS!!! So your end arguement would have to be "all your DPS values are overrated by 5% max", hence if everything is off by the same margin in the same direction, THERE IS NO BIAS. Would you be happy if I produced the same graphs with ANP+EANM+DC?
Stacked the deck? lol, THEY ARE NOT BIASED. Just saying it doesn't make it so. Omni tanking is most popular, to say otherwise is blatent lying, prove Omni tanking isn't most popular, go on try.
So "some have better tanks and some have weaker"... wow does that not mean what I used is somewhere in the middle, you know, like an average! Shesh.
I have both RR Pest (ask my boss, she had it long enough, <3 ya W) and RR Phoon, I prefer Phoon to, but Torps since missile nerf are not as good as they were. RR Abaddon is not better than RR Geddon, especially not for the cost.
So your end arguement is the damage graph against a constant target does not take into account the ships shooting tank? WOW thats because it a comparison of damage output and not there own specific tanks.
Originally by: Theron Gyrow
For NightmareX:
Atomic Battle Penguins. One of the main makers of films showing remote repping battleships. The #1 weapon in their killboard? Mega Pulse II.
Given that they _did_ use Megas a lot earlier, I imagine that the pulse will gain more lead over time.
Mega Pulse Laser II821
Neutron Blaster Cannon II694
Ion Blaster Cannon II213
Ions + Neutrons = 907. Hence more kills with blasters than lasers, and if we're going to draw conclusions from that list... wheres large ACs?
Originally by: Kagura Nikon
No Signature does matter:
Damage = Base_Damage * MIN(MIN(sig/Er,1) , (Ev/Er * sig/vel)^(log(drf) / log(5.5)) )
Hence anything below 450 will take less damage, hence you need to target paint anything smaller than a Typhoon to get more than 3/4 of your damage output.
You are correct in that signature has a part to play in the speed and that doesn't have much effect when firing at a BS. But you still have the range limitations like blasters, and to put the signature thing into context with turrets i'd say they have the worst tracking of the weapons.
Thing is to fit a EXP hard you lose resistances against lasers and blasters, and I don't think thats worth it. Yes actives can overheat, not going to help fill that EM hole you've left. That's my point "filling a whole" is one thing, fitting 3 actives, just creates a different hole and if you believe everything here you leave the hole against the best weapons in eve...
-------------------------
Originally by: "Lord Violent"
EvE is slowly becoming a game for the stupid, catered to by devs as they lack ability to kill/survive anything.
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Childstar
|
Posted - 2009.03.24 16:26:00 -
[1352]
Edited by: Childstar on 24/03/2009 16:30:47
Originally by: Mila Prestoc
THERE IS NO BIAS. Would you be happy if I produced the same graphs with ANP+EANM+DC?
There is bias and no a anp+eanm+dc graph would not change my mind either and if i need to work out the results and resists from it i could do so easily anyway.
I do not think that using either omni tank formula is valid for balancing of the races systems anymore.
Originally by: Mila Prestoc
RR Abaddon is not better than RR Geddon, especially not for the cost.
The cost is the only thing the geddon has over the baddon and the actual differance in isk is a joke when you are looking for the best tool for the job.
Originally by: Mila Prestoc
So your end arguement is the damage graph against a constant target does not take into account the ships shooting tank? WOW thats because it a comparison of damage output and not there own specific tanks.
Its not a comparison of just damage output its a comparison of dmg output against a very specific tank.
A lot of the fits now not only use active hardeners to plug holes but others cannot fit the full omni tank, and while the ANP fit means they take more damage from ALL types the damage a ship is going to take from ALL types because of the tank it can fit directly relates to its abilities, weapons range and its general usefulness in available pvp and its balance compared to other ships used in the same pvp and their available tanks, range, abilities.
Plug and plate fits are far more popular now because of the dmg coverage they give over every dmg type.
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Cohkka
Celestial Apocalypse
death from above..
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Posted - 2009.03.24 16:40:00 -
[1353]
Originally by: arbiter reborn
this has turned into lasers v blastrers discussion, which i must say is rediculous cos they have completely different roles,, completely
Yes, one sucks and the other doesn't.
Quote:
il add that, just because everyone else soak tanks them doesnt mean megas should be soak tanked, dual rep megas are winsauce, anyone remeber farjungs old vids
lol... there really ain't more to add to this discussion.
Don't speak english, just F5, F5, F5... |
coney fitzwarren
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Posted - 2009.03.24 16:42:00 -
[1354]
Originally by: Childstar
Edited by: Childstar on 24/03/2009 16:30:47
The cost is the only thing the geddon has over the baddon and the actual differance in isk is a joke when you are looking for the best tool for the job.
Geddon does more dps, 5% rof adds more dps than 5% damage, both can fit up to seven turrets with a RR and the geddon has one more low and more dronebay. Not everyone will be after the best tool for the job, in most cases that would be an aeon but a geddon costs less.
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arbiter reborn
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Posted - 2009.03.24 16:42:00 -
[1355]
Edited by: arbiter reborn on 24/03/2009 16:43:17
Originally by: Cohkka
Yes, one sucks and the other doesn't.
lol... there really ain't more to add to this discussion.
no
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Childstar
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Posted - 2009.03.24 16:48:00 -
[1356]
Originally by: coney fitzwarren
Originally by: Childstar
Edited by: Childstar on 24/03/2009 16:30:47
The cost is the only thing the geddon has over the baddon and the actual differance in isk is a joke when you are looking for the best tool for the job.
Geddon does more dps, 5% rof adds more dps than 5% damage, both can fit up to seven turrets with a RR and the geddon has one more low and more dronebay. Not everyone will be after the best tool for the job, in most cases that would be an aeon but a geddon costs less.
I know the stats and slot layout on the ships, now go try fitting them....
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Kagura Nikon
Minmatar
M. Corp
|
Posted - 2009.03.24 17:08:00 -
[1357]
Why don't you guys form up 2 teams and go test it in a gang vs gang battle on sisi. Death match ftw:P
At least would allow to discharge the blood-lust each side is feeling towards the other.
And please fraps it with Voice comms recording :P
-------------------------------------------------
If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
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Childstar
|
Posted - 2009.03.24 17:18:00 -
[1358]
Originally by: Kagura Nikon
Why don't you guys form up 2 teams and go test it in a gang vs gang battle on sisi. Death match ftw:P
At least would allow to discharge the blood-lust each side is feeling towards the other.
And please fraps it with Voice comms recording :P
Why bother?..myself and a lot of the others pvp regularly actually on TQ that is how we know that there are problems, instead of needing to rely on old vids and a few KB links showing megas on killmails...
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Kagura Nikon
Minmatar
M. Corp
|
Posted - 2009.03.24 17:23:00 -
[1359]
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: Kagura Nikon
Why don't you guys form up 2 teams and go test it in a gang vs gang battle on sisi. Death match ftw:P
At least would allow to discharge the blood-lust each side is feeling towards the other.
And please fraps it with Voice comms recording :P
Why bother?..myself and a lot of the others pvp regularly actually on TQ that is how we know that there are problems, instead of needing to rely on old vids and a few KB links showing megas on killmails...
But would be sooo funny to watch...
-------------------------------------------------
If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
|
Gabriel Karade
Gallente
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.03.24 18:37:00 -
[1360]
Originally by: Electric Universe
Oh, by looking here: http://kills.forceofevil.co.uk/?a=alliance_detail&all_id=37&view=ships_weapons
I see that even the crappiest and the most poor BS stats wise that is a Tempest is used way more than any of the Amarr BS'es that are supposed to be so epic good, yeah right.
I just want to comment on this and this alone. For one of the types of ops we do/have done, the Tempest is absolutely superb, the Megathron a close second (well actually pretty much on a par, just slightly different advantages), everything else is pretty useless - for that type of op. Hence the 'skew' towards Tempests.
For other ops, the Abaddon is awesome, the Dominix is awesome, the Megathron and Tempest are both solid. In all cases Large Railguns over Large Blasters, in fact there are very few of us (FoE) use the later, I still dabble now and again with my Hyperion, but the fact is the ground has fundamentally shifted, and the Blaster Battleships of the past are now dinosaurs.
--------------
Video - 'War-Machine' |
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Mila Prestoc
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Posted - 2009.03.24 18:41:00 -
[1361]
Originally by: Childstar
Just because you say it doesn't make it true. No bias, prove otherwise.
You say 2 ships (domi+Typhoon) don't omni tank, that leaves Abaddon, Tempest, Mega, Geddon so thats 2/3's OMNI tank. With less commonly used RR BS raven and Hyperion also using Omni tanks. So please prove this bias when the majority omni tank. Don't just say yet again "there is bias" because that is not proof.
Well you have 49 comparisons to do, then compile, then present the overall average performance, otherwise your 1v1 comparisons mean nothing except in 1v1s.
"Tiny bit of damage" is actually a lot... 7 turrets with ROF bonus and 125m3 vs 7 turrets (1 dropped for RR) with DMG bonus and 75m3. Thats not a tiny bit of damage, if that is a tiny difference then the difference between 2xEANM vs ANP+EANM is miniscule.
Its a comparison of damage output against the most common tank, omni tank. The most commonly plugged is exp for gallente, if you do 3 hards then you leave a big hole in EM.
"plug and plate" fits are more popular now? yet you said most can't fit them cos of cpu!!! MAKE YOUR MIND UP. If you want to fit 3 actives and leave EM as the lowest resistance on shields and armour, thats up to you, I certainly won't do it.
-------------------------
Originally by: "Lord Violent"
EvE is slowly becoming a game for the stupid, catered to by devs as they lack ability to kill/survive anything.
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Childstar
|
Posted - 2009.03.24 19:05:00 -
[1362]
Edited by: Childstar on 24/03/2009 19:12:10
Originally by: Mila Prestoc
Just because you say it doesn't make it true. No bias, prove otherwise.
You say 2 ships (domi+Typhoon) don't omni tank, that leaves Abaddon, Tempest, Mega, Geddon so thats 2/3's OMNI tank. With less commonly used RR BS raven and Hyperion also using Omni tanks. So please prove this bias when the majority omni tank. Don't just say yet again "there is bias" because that is not proof.
The abaddon and mega do not have the omni tank resists you used in your graphs nor does the geddon and the pest also gets much better overall resists when fitted with active hardeners +dcu and plates.
So its you who are left with the hyperion that i agree fits the omni tank you used.
Originally by: Mila Prestoc
"Tiny bit of damage" is actually a lot... 7 turrets with ROF bonus and 125m3 vs 7 turrets (1 dropped for RR) with DMG bonus and 75m3. Thats not a tiny bit of damage, if that is a tiny difference then the difference between 2xEANM vs ANP+EANM is miniscule.
It is when you factor in the third dmg mod on the abaddon along with its resist bonus per level.
Originally by: Mila Prestoc
Its a comparison of damage output against the most common tank, omni tank. The most commonly plugged is exp for gallente, if you do 3 hards then you leave a big hole in EM.
And as i pointed out, the RR hyperion is the only gallente bs that fits your graph omni tank, the RR domi can do much better and the RR mega lacks cpu.
Originally by: Mila Prestoc
"plug and plate" fits are more popular now? yet you said most can't fit them cos of cpu!!! MAKE YOUR MIND UP.
No i said the RR mega and RR geddon cannot fit it due to cpu, the RR abaddon has the cpu but does better with the omni tank cos of its bonus filling the explosive hole.
The other RR BS however do have the cpu to do so, and can be fitted accordingly.
Originally by: Mila Prestoc
If you want to fit 3 actives and leave EM as the lowest resistance on shields and armour, thats up to you, I certainly won't do it.
Shield is nothing in a armour RR gang and you get better overall coverage fitting 3 actives on a lot of the RR ships than you do with the omni fit and the em resist is not even close to as low as the ex hole your omni fit gives.
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Helicity Boson
Amarr
The Python Cartel.
Gang Bang Theory
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Posted - 2009.03.25 08:35:00 -
[1363]
Edited by: Helicity Boson on 25/03/2009 08:35:22
So much whining. Rockets need much more of a boost than blasters do :P
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Lady Laserlance
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Posted - 2009.04.03 18:15:00 -
[1364]
Did someone major get a ban or why did the discussion stop?
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Liang Nuren
No Salvation
PuPPet MasTers
|
Posted - 2009.04.03 18:19:00 -
[1365]
It HAD stopped because the first couple of pages were covered in threads discussing the Failcan nerf... Thanks for bringing it back up.
-Liang
--
Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
www.kwikdeath.org |
Zeknichov
State Protectorate
|
Posted - 2009.04.03 19:30:00 -
[1366]
Increase blaster DPS by 20%
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Trader20
|
Posted - 2009.04.03 20:09:00 -
[1367]
Originally by: Zeknichov
Increase blaster DPS by 20%
And 200% decrease in range, hey you said you wanted high dps short range weapons.
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Liang Nuren
No Salvation
PuPPet MasTers
|
Posted - 2009.04.03 20:26:00 -
[1368]
Originally by: Trader20
Originally by: Zeknichov
Increase blaster DPS by 20%
And 200% decrease in range, hey you said you wanted high dps short range weapons.
So, what exactly does a 200% decrease mean? For example, any 100% decrease would mean that it removed all of whatever range it had. Seems like maybe an undefined operation, but I'll try anyway.
Let O1 be the original Optimal Range.
Let D = the proposed change, which in this case will be -1 (200% - 100% [to get delta] * -1 to signify decrease).
Let P0 be the center of the attacking ship, and let P1 be any point on the sphere with radius 01.
Let V0 be the vector from P0 to P1. This has length O1.
Let V1 be D*V0. Let the length of this vector is O2 to denote the new optimal range.
However, since L(V1) == L(V0), O1 == O2.
Sounds like an ok change to me.
-Liang
--
Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
www.kwikdeath.org |
Zeknichov
State War Academy Glory
|
Posted - 2009.04.03 20:31:00 -
[1369]
I do believe by 200% he actually means 75%.
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Psiri
|
Posted - 2009.04.03 21:04:00 -
[1370]
The problem seems to me rather that blasters do not get compensated tracking for the short ranges that they enage at. Any other issues are purely a matter of the ship design of some ships being broken due to the scrambler and web changes.
My suggestion? Boost the speed of the Brutix, Megathron and Hyperion, increase the tracking of large hybrids by a good ammount and the tracking of medium hybrids to a somewhat lesser extent.
A ship doesn't have to be FOTM to be good, as long as it works.
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The Djego
Minmatar
merovinger inc
|
Posted - 2009.04.03 21:34:00 -
[1371]
Originally by: Zeknichov
I do believe by 200% he actually means 75%.
Reduce range on the Weapon system with the shortest range allready, this is truly epic and the awnser to all problems.
Non BS Blasters do next to no damage out of Web Range allready(yeah Neutron Deimos and Astarte can hit things with Null up to 15km with the Falloff Bonus, but you will still get pawned by ohter ships because you do no real damage). The 60% Web works for many ships, it compleetly sucks on Blaster Ships because Web Range(not 10km but fare lower in most of the cases) is your fighting range and a 60% Web don¦t give you the advantage you need here to keep your target in place, prevent kitting within Web Range, reduce your Tracking issues and beeing the one in control range and trasversal.
20% more Damage would help but don¦t fix the core issues in Web Range for most of the Medium and Large Blaster Ships.
----
Nerf Tank - Boost Gank!
Originally by: Amantus
Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
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Trader20
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Posted - 2009.04.03 21:37:00 -
[1372]
Originally by: Zeknichov
I do believe by 200% he actually means 75%.
I was joking......Glad to see this thread back up though. Blaster range or damage really needs to be boosted but not both.
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The Djego
Minmatar
merovinger inc
|
Posted - 2009.04.03 22:01:00 -
[1373]
Originally by: Trader20
Originally by: Zeknichov
I do believe by 200% he actually means 75%.
I was joking......Glad to see this thread back up though. Blaster range or damage really needs to be boosted but not both.
Actualy at least for BS it is a bit over the top(I haven¦t gone to web Range on any sub BC kill since QR with my Mega because it sucks in Web Range against Cruisers and Frigs) and is now used to bring the "You pawn in RR Gangs" argument.
The range that was once usefull to scare of Vagas pre QR turing more and more in default Combat range for my Mega against a lot of ships since getting into Web range isn¦t a good idea for Blaster BS now(Neut down smaller ships and kill them between 15-20km is way faster than dealing with them in Web Range, because the 60% Web will not give you a advantage). I actualy use keep Range to avoid letting smaller Ships into Web Range. If a Blaster Ship have to avoid Web Range to kill ships it is not a Blaster Ship it is a fail in his actual concept.
----
Nerf Tank - Boost Gank!
Originally by: Amantus
Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
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Fistme
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Posted - 2009.04.03 23:27:00 -
[1374]
I think that we can all agree that the only blaster ships that are truly "working as intended" are the frig line up and possibly the Thorax and Brutix because they bring good firepower to the fight in an inexpensive package. All of the t2 blaster boats and BS sized blaster boats are more or less fail when compared to other races comparable ships.
As stated earlier in the thread the issue with the t2 blaster boats (Deimos and Astarte) is that they do not have the ability to last long enough both through cap and ehp to be effective blaster platforms in a gang situation.
There have been many proposed ideas to remedy the situation however I think the most logical is to increase tracking by a small degree on the BS sized Blasters while also removing the optimal bonus from null and increasing the falloff to x1.75. Astarte could also use another low or at the very least give all Commands the hp boost that they missed out on.
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maralt
Minmatar
The seers of truth
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Posted - 2009.04.04 00:07:00 -
[1375]
Its not the falloff that screws over large blaster ships its the optimal.
Increase large blaster optimal but decrease its falloff so they get no more range than they do now as well as a slight tracking buff.
The hyperion needs more grid if its gonna be a active repping ship as you cannot even fit a twin rep and nuetron setup without going over is available PG, let alone trying to put a mwd and injector on it along with tackle ect.
The command ships and diemost need summat to make them actually useable and effective at either solo or gang combat, id say solo as they will always suck in gangs due to the range they operate in.
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
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Posted - 2009.04.04 00:32:00 -
[1376]
Originally by: maralt
The hyperion needs more grid if its gonna be a active repping ship as you cannot even fit a twin rep and nuetron setup without going over is available PG, let alone trying to put a mwd and injector on it along with tackle ect.
No ships should be able to fit Dual LAR's on a Neutron setup anyways.
If you want Dual LAR's fitted you have to use Ions.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Fistme
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Posted - 2009.04.04 01:09:00 -
[1377]
Originally by: NightmareX
Edited by: NightmareX on 04/04/2009 00:44:19
Originally by: maralt
The hyperion needs more grid if its gonna be a active repping ship as you cannot even fit a twin rep and nuetron setup without going over is available PG, let alone trying to put a mwd and injector on it along with tackle ect.
No battleship that use Blasters should be able to fit Dual LAR's on a Neutron setup anyways.
If you want Dual LAR's fitted you have to use Ions or Electrons.
Now I agree with your general point nightmare, 2x large reps + nuetrons is asking for too much but I'd like to correct you. It is not feasable to fit neutrons on ANY BS blaster boat with a rep, need to plate it or gank it to fit neutrons. If you're going to fit a rep on either the mega or the hype you're already down to ions, and if you want to dbl rep a hype or mega electrons are really you're only option.
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Liang Nuren
No Salvation
PuPPet MasTers
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Posted - 2009.04.04 01:58:00 -
[1378]
Originally by: NightmareX
No battleship that use Blasters should be able to fit Dual LAR's on a Neutron setup anyways.
If you want Dual LAR's fitted you have to use Ions or Electrons.
You're both wrong. But NMX is only wrong technically instead of utterly.
[Hyperion, Stupid.]
Large Armor Repairer II
Large Armor Repairer II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Damage Control II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Quad LiF Fueled I Booster Rockets
Medium Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
Medium Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I
Stasis Webifier II
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Ancillary Current Router I
Ancillary Current Router I
Algid Hybrid Administrations Unit I
-Liang
--
Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
www.kwikdeath.org |
Ephemeron
North Eastern Swat
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.04.04 02:05:00 -
[1379]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
[Hyperion, Stupid.]
Large Armor Repairer II
Large Armor Repairer II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Damage Control II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Quad LiF Fueled I Booster Rockets
Medium Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
Medium Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I
Stasis Webifier II
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Ancillary Current Router I
Ancillary Current Router I
Algid Hybrid Administrations Unit I
-Liang
It is very bad idea to use medium cap injector on battleship with active rep. And it is completely pointless to use those on a dual-rep. And you quickly lose the capacity to use 1 of those reps.
That setup is highly impractical. I never seen people use it in battle.
Ion blaster setup would have been much more effective
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Liang Nuren
No Salvation
PuPPet MasTers
|
Posted - 2009.04.04 02:29:00 -
[1380]
Originally by: Ephemeron
It is very bad idea to use medium cap injector on battleship with active rep. And it is completely pointless to use those on a dual-rep. And you quickly lose the capacity to use 1 of those reps.
That setup is highly impractical. I never seen people use it in battle.
Ion blaster setup would have been much more effective
Grading Technical Correctness... A
Grading Reading Comprehension... F
I just illustrating that it can be done... not that it's a great idea. I personally would run a LAR/Plate/Ion fit.
-Liang
--
Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
www.kwikdeath.org |
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
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Posted - 2009.04.04 02:45:00 -
[1381]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
I just illustrating that it can be done... not that it's a great idea.
-Liang
Yes, most things is possible to fit on battleships. You can even fit a capital gun to a BS. Not smart to do though, but still it's possible to do.
The point is that a Hyperion with 2x Medium Capacitor Booster II's will get in cap troubles really fast. And a setup like you posted is not good or not used by anyone in PVP to.
Now, show me a setup with 8x t2 Neutrons, 1x 100MN MWD II, 1x Heavy Capacitor Booster II and 2x LAR II's.
Try that without fitting 3x Powergrid rigs on the Hyperion. Fitting 3x Powergrid rigs on a Hyperion is stupid anyways.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
PuPPet MasTers
|
Posted - 2009.04.04 04:59:00 -
[1382]
Originally by: NightmareX
Yes, most things is possible to fit on battleships. You can even fit a capital gun to a BS. Not smart to do though, but still it's possible to do.
The point is that a Hyperion with 2x Medium Capacitor Booster II's will get in cap troubles really fast. And a setup like you posted is not good or not used by anyone in PVP to.
Now, show me a setup with 8x t2 Neutrons, 1x 100MN MWD II, 1x Heavy Capacitor Booster II and 2x LAR II's.
Try that without fitting 3x Powergrid rigs on the Hyperion. Fitting 3x Powergrid rigs on a Hyperion is stupid anyways.
[Hyperion, Stupid.]
Large Armor Repairer II
Large Armor Repairer II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Damage Control II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Reactor Control Unit II
Quad LiF Fueled I Booster Rockets
Heavy Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Cap Booster 800
Medium Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Cap Booster 800
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Ancillary Current Router I
Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Ogre II x4
Not much less stupid than the other, but at least nobody can complain about it being lacking on cap. Generally where there's a will, there's a way. BTW, this doesn't really affect anything... it's just an academic discussion about nothing. Why am I making this post? I must be drunk. Sigh.
-Liang
--
Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
www.kwikdeath.org |
Childstar
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Posted - 2009.04.04 08:16:00 -
[1383]
Originally by: NightmareX
Originally by: Liang Nuren
I just illustrating that it can be done... not that it's a great idea.
-Liang
Yes, most things is possible to fit on battleships. You can even fit a capital gun to a BS. Not smart to do though, but still it's possible to do.
The point is that a Hyperion with 2x Medium Capacitor Booster II's will get in cap troubles really fast. And a setup like you posted is not good or not used by anyone in PVP to.
Now, show me a setup with 8x t2 Neutrons, 1x 100MN MWD II, 1x Heavy Capacitor Booster II and 2x LAR II's.
Well certain ppl have no clue how to fit a BS but still try to pitch clueless "OMG look how much this can rep" comments, even though they have no argument.
Originally by: Electric Universe
I'm not saying the Hyperions will survive though. I'm saying that with Dual LAR and 2x EANM's and one DC II + one MFS II, the Hyperion does 1029 DPS with 4x Ogre II drones.
With 3x Aux Nano Pump I's and one Strong Exile Booster pill, your going to rep 4036 armor HP every 9.56 sec before overload. With overload on, you can rep 4150 armor HP every 9.56 sec.
This is with 75.1% Em and 67.6% Thermal and kinetic + 55.1% to Explosive resists. But then, it can repaier over 4.1k armor hp every cycle.
It still have the highest resists to Lasers (Em and Thermal).
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maralt
Minmatar
The seers of truth
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Posted - 2009.04.04 08:28:00 -
[1384]
Originally by: NightmareX
Edited by: NightmareX on 04/04/2009 00:44:19
Originally by: maralt
The hyperion needs more grid if its gonna be a active repping ship as you cannot even fit a twin rep and nuetron setup without going over is available PG, let alone trying to put a mwd and injector on it along with tackle ect.
No battleship that use Blasters should be able to fit Dual LAR's on a Neutron setup anyways.
If you want Dual LAR's fitted you have to use Ions or Electrons.
1. And yet active tanks use bucket tonnes of cap.
2. Really need to refuel (get more boosters) after every fight.
3. Have their resistances, their DMG or both gimped due to not being able to fit 2 reps, dmg mods and hardeners.
And on top of all that as well as a lot of other things they cannot even fit good blasters and so already get crappy DMG output.
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Rhadamantine
Game Community
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Posted - 2009.04.04 08:36:00 -
[1385]
Originally by: NightmareX
Stuff....
Post with your alt.
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Siobhan Amarr
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Posted - 2009.04.04 12:04:00 -
[1386]
/agree that something needs to be done about med-large blasters, or to the ships that are supposed to use them.
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.04.04 14:28:00 -
[1387]
Edited by: NightmareX on 04/04/2009 14:28:26
Originally by: Childstar
Well certain ppl have no clue how to fit a BS but still try to pitch clueless "OMG look how much this can rep" comments, even though they have no argument.
Well certain peoples had to take the Megathron into a comparsion with a tier 3 ship where the Abaddon could fit a setup with 3x damage mods and then only do it because the Megathron couldn't fit the same type of setup.
Congrats for showing that you could do that to show that your just a better EFT warrior.
Anyways. The Blaster Mega still does more DPS with 2x damage mods than a 3x damage mods Abaddon with 8 guns does.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Fatality Killer
Minmatar
Republic Military School
|
Posted - 2009.04.04 14:29:00 -
[1388]
Originally by: Rhadamantine
Originally by: NightmareX
Stuff....
Post with your alt.
Ok, happy now?.
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Childstar
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Posted - 2009.04.04 16:01:00 -
[1389]
Originally by: NightmareX
Originally by: Childstar
Well certain ppl have no clue how to fit a BS but still try to pitch clueless "OMG look how much this can rep" comments, even though they have no argument.
Well certain peoples had to take the Megathron into a comparsion with a tier 3 ship where the Abaddon could fit a setup with 3x damage mods and then only do it because the Megathron couldn't fit the same type of setup.
So you are saying that amarr skilled players cannot get into a abaddon if the gang they are facing has megas in it?....cos i was comparing AVAILABLE ships and fits but hey if you and your alt need to cry about it....
Originally by: NightmareX
Congrats for showing that you could do that to show that your just a better EFT warrior.
Well as the position for not knowing how to fly or even fit gallente ships had already been taken by you i thought it was a good idea...
Originally by: NightmareX
Anyways. The Blaster Mega still does more DPS with 2x damage mods than a 3x damage mods Abaddon with 8 guns does.
With 2 mag stabs the mega does 832 gun dmg + 300 drone dmg (sentry 2's) = 1132 raw dps from 0-4.5km.
With 3 heat sinks the Aba does 916 gun dmg + 180 drone dmg (sentry 2's) = 1096 raw dps from 0-14.5km.
So thats only 36 more RAW dps from blasters with 300% less range .
The mega has 115,436 EHP and 73.4em, 65.5th, 65.5ki, 52.2ex resists.
The abad has 134,371 EHP and 81.3em, 75.7th, 71.9ki, 70.1ex resists.
The mega hits the abaddon for 293.3 dps.
The abaddon hits the mega for 336.12 dps.
The abaddon hits the mega harder by 42.82 dps that is 14.6% MORE.
Iwould have thought getting owned on this topic on your alt as well as your main you would have remembered....
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
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Posted - 2009.04.04 16:26:00 -
[1390]
Edited by: NightmareX on 04/04/2009 16:36:04
Originally by: Childstar
Edited by: Childstar on 04/04/2009 16:20:13
Originally by: NightmareX
Originally by: Childstar
Well certain ppl have no clue how to fit a BS but still try to pitch clueless "OMG look how much this can rep" comments, even though they have no argument.
Well certain peoples had to take the Megathron into a comparsion with a tier 3 ship where the Abaddon could fit a setup with 3x damage mods and then only do it because the Megathron couldn't fit the same type of setup.
So you are saying that amarr skilled players cannot get into a abaddon if the gang they are facing has megas in it?....cos i was comparing AVAILABLE ships and fits but hey if you and your alt need to cry about it....
Originally by: NightmareX
Congrats for showing that you could do that to show that your just a better EFT warrior.
Well as the position for not knowing how to fly or even fit gallente ships had already been taken by you i thought it was a good idea...
Originally by: NightmareX
Anyways. The Blaster Mega still does more DPS with 2x damage mods than a 3x damage mods Abaddon with 8 guns does.
With 2 mag stabs the mega does 832 gun dmg + 300 drone dmg (sentry 2's) = 1132 raw dps from 0-4.5km.
With 3 heat sinks the Aba does 916 gun dmg + 180 drone dmg (sentry 2's) = 1096 raw dps from 0-14.5km.
So thats only 36 more RAW dps from blasters with 300% less range .
The mega has 115,436 EHP and 73.4em, 65.5th, 65.5ki, 52.2ex resists.
The abad has 134,371 EHP and 81.3em, 75.7th, 71.9ki, 70.1ex resists.
The mega hits the abaddon for 293.3 dps.
The abaddon hits the mega for 336.12 dps.
The abaddon hits the mega harder by 42.82 dps that is 14.6% MORE.
I would have thought already getting owned on this topic on your alt as well as your main you would have remembered not to make claims without actual knowledge......
To your first thing.
No i'm not saying it, i'm saying that in most of the times when your in a RR gang, you will have LOTS of Blaster Megas in the gang. Included with RR Domis. But you can still use your Abaddon, but you have to waste one gun then if you want to be in a RR gang.
Then next point.
I know how to fit Gallente ships. You only did that comparsion with the 3x HS II fitted Abaddon against the 3x MFS II fitted Mega ONLY because you did know by your uber EFT warrior skills that the Mega couldn't fit it without getting into CPU problems.
Just remember though that your comparing a tier 3 ship to a tier 2 ship when it's about stats. Oh noes, really?, is the tier 3 ships really better than the tier 2 ship stats wise?.
And then to the last thing.
With a cheap faction fit you can fit 3x MFS II on your Mega. And by that, how much more DPS does the Neutrons does over the Pulses then lol?.
Yes, a Megathron is a ship that you need to put more isk into to be able to works extremely good. But who cares. Most PVPers today have tons of isk anyways.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
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Childstar
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Posted - 2009.04.04 17:28:00 -
[1391]
Originally by: NightmareX
To your first thing.
No i'm not saying it, i'm saying that in most of the times when your in a RR gang, you will have LOTS of Blaster Megas in the gang. Included with RR Domis. But you can still use your Abaddon, but you have to waste one gun then if you want to be in a RR gang.
The abaddon RR fit also does more dmg against the mega than the mega does about the abaddon.
Originally by: NightmareX
I know how to fit Gallente ships. You only did that comparsion with the 3x HS II fitted Abaddon against the 3x MFS II fitted Mega ONLY because you did know by your uber EFT warrior skills that the Mega couldn't fit it without getting into CPU problems.
Exactly the megas fitting issues gimp it badly.
Originally by: NightmareX
Remember i'm not a god who knows how every setups is without checking it in EFT. But you are that, so do the chest beating on whos the best EFT warrior is not a point to do with you.
No you are a clueless sissi warrior with no clue about the reality of TQ.
Originally by: NightmareX
Just remember though that your comparing a tier 3 ship to a tier 2 ship when it's about stats. Oh noes, really?, is the tier 3 ships really better than the tier 2 ship stats wise?.
No its comparing a available racial ship to a available racial ship.
Originally by: NightmareX
With a cheap faction fit you can fit 3x MFS II on your Mega. And by that, how much more DPS does the Neutrons does over the Pulses then lol?.
The 3 mag stab mage would do 320.62 dps against the abaddon but the mega would have 93,164 EHP.
The abaddon hits the mega for 336.12 dps but has 134,371 EHP.
So the abaddon STILL hits the mega harder that the mega hits it by 15.5dps so 4.8% HARDER alongwith 300% more range and 50% more EHP......
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
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Posted - 2009.04.04 17:30:00 -
[1392]
Edited by: NightmareX on 04/04/2009 17:32:46
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: NightmareX
To your first thing.
No i'm not saying it, i'm saying that in most of the times when your in a RR gang, you will have LOTS of Blaster Megas in the gang. Included with RR Domis. But you can still use your Abaddon, but you have to waste one gun then if you want to be in a RR gang.
The abaddon RR fit also does more dmg against the mega than the mega does about the abaddon.
Originally by: NightmareX
I know how to fit Gallente ships. You only did that comparsion with the 3x HS II fitted Abaddon against the 3x MFS II fitted Mega ONLY because you did know by your uber EFT warrior skills that the Mega couldn't fit it without getting into CPU problems.
Exactly the megas fitting issues gimp it badly.
Originally by: NightmareX
Remember i'm not a god who knows how every setups is without checking it in EFT. But you are that, so do the chest beating on whos the best EFT warrior is not a point to do with you.
No you are a clueless sissi warrior with no clue about the reality of TQ.
Originally by: NightmareX
Just remember though that your comparing a tier 3 ship to a tier 2 ship when it's about stats. Oh noes, really?, is the tier 3 ships really better than the tier 2 ship stats wise?.
No its comparing a available racial ship to a available racial ship.
Originally by: NightmareX
With a cheap faction fit you can fit 3x MFS II on your Mega. And by that, how much more DPS does the Neutrons does over the Pulses then lol?.
The 3 mag stab mage would do 320.62 dps against the abaddon but the mega would have 93,164 EHP.
The abaddon hits the mega for 336.12 dps but has 134,371 EHP.
So the abaddon STILL hits the mega harder that the mega hits it by 15.5dps so 4.8% HARDER alongwith 300% more range and 50% more EHP......
Do you really think that those eft stats really help you so much in REAL PVP combat?.
EDIT: With my skills. And with a setup that use 3x MFS II on a Neutron Mega, then it does 1230 DPS before overload. Yeah your fantasy Abaddon is doing more DPS than that LOOOOOOOOOOL. What kind of dream world are you in?.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
AmarQuan
|
Posted - 2009.04.04 17:32:00 -
[1393]
Originally by: NightmareX
No i'm not saying it, i'm saying that in most of the times when you're in a RR gang, you will have LOTS of Blaster Megas in the gang. Included with RR Domis. But you can still use your Abaddon, but you have to waste one gun then if you want to be in a RR gang.
first, if you are in a roaming rr gang and absolutely WANT (to be stubborn and) to bring a mega, you would fit it with rails.
second, in a gang, the geddon is a better rr ship (since it has the spare high).
third, the rage coverage of your abbadon gang mates fully makes up for the high each member sacrifices.
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Childstar
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Posted - 2009.04.04 17:37:00 -
[1394]
Edited by: Childstar on 04/04/2009 17:41:33
Edited by: Childstar on 04/04/2009 17:40:40
Originally by: NightmareX
Edited by: NightmareX on 04/04/2009 17:32:46
Originally by: Childstar
The 3 mag stab mage would do 320.62 dps against the abaddon but the mega would have 93,164 EHP.
The abaddon hits the mega for 336.12 dps but has 134,371 EHP.
So the abaddon STILL hits the mega harder that the mega hits it by 15.5dps so 4.8% HARDER alongwith 300% more range and 50% more EHP......
Do you really think that those eft stats really help you so much in REAL PVP combat?.
They show what the ship is capable of and how it works so YES they are very important and help a lot all things being equal like skills and pilot ability.
They are also important when balancing and fixing ship issues, lets be honest for a long time now certain individuals have been preaching the line of "30% more dmg from blasters vs lasers" every chance they get but the facts are that in BS when comparing available ships and fits on both sides that is just not true and in some cases the oposite.
And comments about "real pvp combat" would be better recieved from sombody who actually did it instead of hid from it on sissi...
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
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Posted - 2009.04.04 17:39:00 -
[1395]
Edited by: NightmareX on 04/04/2009 17:43:39
Originally by: AmarQuan
Originally by: NightmareX
No i'm not saying it, i'm saying that in most of the times when you're in a RR gang, you will have LOTS of Blaster Megas in the gang. Included with RR Domis. But you can still use your Abaddon, but you have to waste one gun then if you want to be in a RR gang.
first, if you are in a roaming rr gang and absolutely WANT (to be stubborn and) to bring a mega, you would fit it with rails.
second, in a gang, the geddon is a better rr ship (since it has the spare high).
third, the rage coverage of your abbadon gang mates fully makes up for the high each member sacrifices.
Your wrong. Because the Megathron also have a spare high slot for RR. And the Geddon is not a better RR ship than the Mega. Try to fit the geddon with 7x t2 Pulses, Heavy Capacitor Booster II, and 3x 1600mm Plates + 3x t1 Trimarks and the rest.
Can you tell me if you can fit the RR to the Geddon there lol?.
No, if your doing close range fights, your not using Rails, your using Blasters then. Because every smart gangs use Covert Ops to warp into so you land right on top of the enemies anyways.
Yes if your fighting at more range, then yes, a geddon or an Abaddon is a better choise.
Originally by: Childstar
And comments about "real pvp combat" would be better recieved from sombody who actually did it instead of hid from it on sissi...
Awww booohoooo, the tears. I know how REAL PVP is even when i'm on sisi some FEW times.
Anyways, i don't care what you say Child, because the thing i really care about is that today, the fact is that Blaster Megas is the most popular RR gank BS in EVE. And it wont change for a loooooooong time.
And i know there is a very good reason that there is so many RR Blaster Megas today and why there isn't so many Amarr BS'es in RR gangs.
It's clearly what kind of ships that is the most popular today.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Childstar
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Posted - 2009.04.04 17:42:00 -
[1396]
Edited by: Childstar on 04/04/2009 17:43:23
Originally by: NightmareX
EDIT: With my skills. And with a setup that use 3x MFS II on a Neutron Mega, then it does 1230 DPS before overload. Yeah your fantasy Abaddon is doing more DPS than that LOOOOOOOOOOL. What kind of dream world are you in?.
My figures are correct emo boy i suggest you check before you rant.
The 3 mag stab mega would do 320.62 dps against the abaddon fit but the mega would have 93,164 EHP.
The abaddon hits the mega for 336.12 dps but has 134,371 EHP.
So the abaddon STILL hits the mega harder that the mega hits it by 15.5dps so 4.8% HARDER alongwith 300% more range and 50% more EHP......
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.04.04 17:45:00 -
[1397]
Edited by: NightmareX on 04/04/2009 17:45:32
Originally by: Childstar
Edited by: Childstar on 04/04/2009 17:43:23
Originally by: NightmareX
EDIT: With my skills. And with a setup that use 3x MFS II on a Neutron Mega, then it does 1230 DPS before overload. Yeah your fantasy Abaddon is doing more DPS than that LOOOOOOOOOOL. What kind of dream world are you in?.
My figures are correct emo boy i suggest you check before you rant.
The 3 mag stab mega would do 320.62 dps against the abaddon fit but the mega would have 93,164 EHP.
The abaddon hits the mega for 336.12 dps but has 134,371 EHP.
Is that with 7 or 8 guns on the Abaddon?.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Childstar
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Posted - 2009.04.04 17:49:00 -
[1398]
Originally by: NightmareX
Edited by: NightmareX on 04/04/2009 17:45:32
Originally by: Childstar
Edited by: Childstar on 04/04/2009 17:43:23
Originally by: NightmareX
EDIT: With my skills. And with a setup that use 3x MFS II on a Neutron Mega, then it does 1230 DPS before overload. Yeah your fantasy Abaddon is doing more DPS than that LOOOOOOOOOOL. What kind of dream world are you in?.
My figures are correct emo boy i suggest you check before you rant.
The 3 mag stab mega would do 320.62 dps against the abaddon fit but the mega would have 93,164 EHP.
The abaddon hits the mega for 336.12 dps but has 134,371 EHP.
Is that with 7 or 8 guns on the Abaddon?.
Post 1344.
You chose the fits pal not me....whats the matter do you need to move the goal posts yet again due to another massive ownage on a subject?.
Like i have told you many times 1. think 2. test 3. then test again to be sure 4. then if you are correct make a post...
Steaming in with a deranged rant about things you know nothing about is never a good idea.
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.04.04 17:54:00 -
[1399]
Edited by: NightmareX on 04/04/2009 17:55:41
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: NightmareX
Edited by: NightmareX on 04/04/2009 17:45:32
Originally by: Childstar
Edited by: Childstar on 04/04/2009 17:43:23
Originally by: NightmareX
EDIT: With my skills. And with a setup that use 3x MFS II on a Neutron Mega, then it does 1230 DPS before overload. Yeah your fantasy Abaddon is doing more DPS than that LOOOOOOOOOOL. What kind of dream world are you in?.
My figures are correct emo boy i suggest you check before you rant.
The 3 mag stab mega would do 320.62 dps against the abaddon fit but the mega would have 93,164 EHP.
The abaddon hits the mega for 336.12 dps but has 134,371 EHP.
Is that with 7 or 8 guns on the Abaddon?.
Post 1344.
You chose the fits pal not me....whats the matter do you need to move the goal posts yet again due to another massive ownage on a subject?.
Like i have told you many times 1. think 2. test 3. then test again to be sure 4. then if you are correct make a post...
Steaming in with a deranged rant about things you know nothing about is never a good idea.
Ok, just to make it very clear here.
If that DPS thing you posted over is with 8 guns, then fine. It might do some few more DPS than the Mega.
But then, the Abaddon have no RR, and what does that mean when your in 5x Abaddons with no RR for example meets 5x Blaster Megas with RR?. Yes the Blaster Mega gang will pretty much own your whole Avaddon gang.
Isn't is some players on this forum that are crying that RR is soooooooo overpowered and it need to be nerfed?.
If the Abaddons is fitted with 7 guns and one RR + 3x HS II, then the Blaster Megas does waaaaay more DPS with 3x MFS II than the Abaddons does anyways.
So then the DPS advantage there will counter up pretty well to the EHP bonus the Abaddon have there.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Childstar
|
Posted - 2009.04.04 18:00:00 -
[1400]
Edited by: Childstar on 04/04/2009 18:00:27
Originally by: NightmareX
If that DPS thing you posted over is with 8 guns, then fine. It might do some few more DPS than the Mega..
THESE FIGURES ARE FROM STANDARDLY FITTED RR MEGAS AND ABADDONS (as nobody fits 3 mag stabs on a RR mega).
Your mega starts with 7 guns and RR with 832 gun dps and 300 drone dps to be assigned.
300 thermal drone dmg from gaurd less 75.7% = 72.9 DPS.
482.56 kinetic damage from its guns less 71.9% = 135.6 DPS.
394.44 thermal damage from its guns less 75.7% = 84.9 DPS.
YOUR MEGA GETS A TOTAL OF 293.4 MAX DPS AT 4.5KM vs THE ABADDON.
4. Your mega has 73.4 em, 65.5 thermal resists and the abaddon does 58% more EM dmg with its guns than thermal so including the drones and after the megas resists:
The abaddon starts with 7 guns and RR with 802 gun dps and 180 drone dps to be assigned.
180 thr drone dmg less 65.5% = 62.1 DPS.
465.16 gun em damage less 73.4% = 123.8 DPS.
336.84 gun th damage less 65.5% = 116.2 DPS.
THE ABAD GETS A TOTAL OF 302.1 MAX DPS AT 15KM vs YOUR MEGA.
THE ABAD GETS A TOTAL OF 302.1 MAX DPS AFTER RESISTS AT 15KM vs YOUR MEGA.
THE MEGA GETS A TOTAL OF 293.4 MAX DPS AFTER RESISTS AT 4.5KM vs THE ABAD.
Your mega actually has 3% LESS DPS and 300% less range, and a WEAK 52.2% explosive resist hole and also has 18% LESS EHP.
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.04.04 18:26:00 -
[1401]
Edited by: NightmareX on 04/04/2009 18:27:22
Ok, i just sat up an Abaddon with this setup.
High:
7x Mega Pulse Laser II with Amarr Navy Multis
1x Large Remote Armor Repair System II
Med:
1x 100MN MWD II
1x Warp Disruptor II
1x Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
1x Heavy Capacitor Booster II
Low:
1x Damage Control II
1x Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
2x 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
3x Heat Sink II
Rigs:
3x Trimark Armor Pump I
Drones:
3x Ogre II. You actually gets more DPS by using 2x Ogre II, 2x Hammerhead II and one Hogoblin II
Here you use 703.25 out of 700 CPU. So you have to use a turret CPU implant here to fit that.
This setup have 149678 EHP. The resists is 76.1% EM, 68.9% Thermal, 64.1% Kinetic and 61.7% to Explosive. It does 992 DPS with the Drones.
Ok, then look at the Blaster Mega.
High:
7x Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
1x Large 'Solace' I Remote Bulwark Reconstruction
Med:
1x 100MN MicroWarpdrive II
1x Warp Disruptor II
1x Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
1x Medium Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
Low:
1x Damage Control II
1x Amarr Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane (this one is dirt cheap)
1x Adaptive Nano Plating II
2x 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
2x Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Here the Mega have 128450 EHP. The resists are 74.6 EM, 66.9 Thermal and Kinetic and 54.2% to Explosive. It does 1130 DPS with the drones here.
It's 14% more DPS from 992 to 1130 DPS. And the Abaddon only have 16% more EHP than the Mega have when you are using all skills on level 5.
Remember, you have to use a turret CPU implant here to. You only need the -3% to turret CPU usage one. It's the same for the Abaddon setup over.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Traderboz
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Posted - 2009.04.04 19:00:00 -
[1402]
You don't see anything wrong with fitting faction EANM on one ship and not the other when comparing EHP?
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.04.04 19:04:00 -
[1403]
Originally by: Traderboz
You don't see anything wrong with fitting faction EANM on one ship and not the other when comparing EHP?
Who cares?, the Amarr Navy EANM is diry cheap anyways.
Not like 2.5% more to all resists have so much to say anyways.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Childstar
|
Posted - 2009.04.04 19:06:00 -
[1404]
Your mega fit sucks.
1. A med cap injector on a RR Blaster BS?.....LOL just LOL you really have no idea about how much blaster ships need to mwd do you?, let alone RR as well.
2. I make it 118,904 EHP with that fit and all level 5 skills NOT 128,450.
3. I make it 1132 raw dps with gaurd 2's and 1148 with ogre 2's although the instant dmg from sentries makes up for the lower dps as ogres only travel at 1000ish ms so against multiple targets thats a lot of lost dps from traveling.
4. You have a dirty great resistance hole in explosive (54.2%) that makes your EHP figures a lot lower in actua combat than EFT shows due to how it figures them.
So you are short of cap be miles for starters and your EHP seems to be out by almost 10k.
I prefer my abaddon fit it uses sentries for starters has a little less EHP than your abaddon fit and still a lot more than the mega and also much much better overall resistances with no massive holes in 81.3em 75.7th 71.9ki 70.1ex (so a lot more practical in actual combat).
Also if you use a solace RR and a faint point you do not need any implants.
Well at least you can say you are consistant as you fitted both ships rather poorly imho...
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Childstar
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Posted - 2009.04.04 19:08:00 -
[1405]
Originally by: NightmareX
Edited by: NightmareX on 04/04/2009 19:06:26
Originally by: Traderboz
You don't see anything wrong with fitting faction EANM on one ship and not the other when comparing EHP?
Who cares?, the Amarr Navy EANM is diry cheap anyways.
Not like 2.5% more to all resists have so much to say anyways. And it's all about to be able to fit the setup on the Mega.
If you use a normal t2 EANM, you have to use a -5% to turret cpu usage implant. And those implants is not cheap. So then you can buy a -3% one and then buy a faction EANM instead that are much much more cheap than the -5% implant.
And yet you did not bother to fit them on the abaddon??...can you spell biased?...
Anyway i corrected your abaddon fit, and pointed out some rather large problems with your mega.....
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.04.04 19:12:00 -
[1406]
Edited by: NightmareX on 04/04/2009 19:14:54
Originally by: Childstar
Edited by: Childstar on 04/04/2009 19:06:40
Your mega fit sucks.
1. A med cap injector on a RR Blaster BS?.....LOL just LOL you really have no idea about how much blaster ships need to mwd do you?, let alone RR as well.
2. I make it 118,904 EHP with that fit and all level 5 skills NOT 128,450.
3. I make it 1132 raw dps with gaurd 2's and 1148 with ogre 2's although the instant dmg from sentries makes up for the lower dps as ogres only travel at 1000ish ms so against multiple targets thats a lot of lost dps from traveling.
4. You have a dirty great resistance hole in explosive (54.2%) that makes your EHP figures a lot lower in actua combat than EFT shows due to how it figures them.
So you are short of cap be miles for starters and your EHP seems to be out by almost 10k.
I prefer my abaddon fit
It uses sentries for starters has a little less EHP than your abaddon fit and still a lot more than the mega and also much much better overall resistances with no massive holes in 81.3em 75.7th 71.9ki 70.1ex (so a lot more practical in actual combat).
Also if you use a solace RR and a faint point you do not need any implants.
Well at least you can say you are consistant as you fitted both ships rather poorly imho...
1. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. You can't fit a Heavy Cap Booster on a Neutron fitted Mega anyways dumbass. Not on a Mega though.
2. No, EFT says 128450 EHP with 2x plates and 2x MFS II's with all skills on level 5. I just checked that if the All Skills On Level 5 profile had any implants, but it doesn't have any implants on.
3. Like sentry drones will help if the Blaster Megas sits 4 km from you.
4. Wow, i hear alot of players use Minmatar ships nowdays. Wasn't everyone going to Amarr?.
Fail attempt to proove anything. So try better next time.
Originally by: Childstar
And yet you did not bother to fit them on the abaddon??...can you spell biased?...
Anyway i corrected your abaddon fit, and pointed out some rather large problems with your mega.....
The reason i didn't do that was because you don't have to do it to be able to fit the setup.
No you didn't correct anything on my setup at all, you only manipulated it so the Abaddon will gets better stats in every possible ways.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Traderboz
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Posted - 2009.04.04 19:29:00 -
[1407]
1. Whether it is needed to fit or not, fitting faction on one ship and not on the other when trying to do a 'fair' comparison is stupid. If you're dropping faction on one ship, drop it on the other.
2. I'm pretty sure that single medium cap booster is not going to work out well on a RR Blaster Boat. Just because a heavy won't fit doesn't mean a medium will do the job.
3. Oh, and for what it matters, you didn't fit solace to both. :P You fit a solace and a T2.
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.04.04 19:36:00 -
[1408]
Originally by: Traderboz
1. Whether it is needed to fit or not, fitting faction on one ship and not on the other when trying to do a 'fair' comparison is stupid. If you're dropping faction on one ship, drop it on the other.
2. I'm pretty sure that single medium cap booster is not going to work out well on a RR Blaster Boat. Just because a heavy won't fit doesn't mean a medium will do the job.
3. Oh, and for what it matters, you didn't fit solace to both. :P You fit a solace and a T2.
1. Fitting 3 HS II on the Abaddon when comparing it to 2x MFS II fitted Mega is not stupid at all?.
2. The Megathron capacitor with a Medium Cap Booster II 2x Plates and 2x MFS II is going to last is 1 min and 19 secs after what EFT says, while the Anaddon with a Heavy Cap Booster II only last for 1 min and 22 secs with 7 guns and 1 RR. Oh boy, cap hungry ships is always fun to fight.
3. If i did write in a t2 RR on the Abaddon earlier, then it was a typo. because when i started to compare the stats on the Abaddon and the Megathron, then both of the ships in EFT had a solace fitted. So the stats are the same anyways.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Childstar
|
Posted - 2009.04.04 19:41:00 -
[1409]
Originally by: NightmareX
1. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. You can't fit a Heavy Cap Booster on a Neutron fitted Mega anyways dumbass. Not on a Mega with the setup i posted over though.
Iknow you cannot you muppet.
The fact that you do not consider that a rather large issue makes you the dumb ass btw..
Originally by: NightmareX
2. No, EFT says 128450 EHP with 2x plates and 2x MFS II's with all skills on level 5. I just checked that if the All Skills On Level 5 profile had any implants, but it doesn't have any implants on.
All level 5 on my eft says 2 x plates, 1 x amarr navy eanm, 1 x t2 adaptive plate, 1 x t2 DCU, 2 x mfs = 118,904 according to my figures.
Originally by: NightmareX
3. Like sentry drones will help if the Blaster Megas warps right in on top of you and sits 4 km from you and LOL at you.
They cannot be 4km from all the oposing ships, if you flew on TQ in gang pvp instead of warp to 0 fights in BF areas on sissi you would understand that.
Originally by: NightmareX
And no, the EHP is still EHP no matter what the resists are. EFT calculate the EHP after how much Shield, armor and structure and how much resists you have.
The EHP can't get lower in real combat only because a ship have a low resist to something. The resist overall is the EHP.
Wrong its about good overall resists, if you had 95% kinetic resists but only 30% thermal eft would show you having good EHP but the truth would be that your tank would suck badly and the mega may have reasonable em resists but its explosive resists suck.
Originally by: NightmareX
EDIT: Dude, didn't i fit Solace RR on both of the setups i posted over?. Oh god, your blind hahah.
Idid not fail at anything, you ninja edited your stupid fit while i was correcting it and pointing out how stupid it was.
I told you before think, test, think again then post...when will you learn?.
Originally by: NightmareX
No you didn't correct anything on my setup at all, you only manipulated it so the Abaddon will gets better stats in every possible ways.
THE STATMENT OF THE YEAR........
What was i thinking fitting the abaddon correctly???....
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.04.04 19:43:00 -
[1410]
Edited by: NightmareX on 04/04/2009 19:44:41
Child, read the post before you posted over here. There i tell about how long the capacitor lasts with 7x Neutrons and one Solace RR and a Medium Capacitor Booster II on a Mega and then see how long the capacitor lasts on an Abaddon with 7x Pulses + one Solace RR and one Heavy Capacitor Booster II.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
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Childstar
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Posted - 2009.04.04 19:49:00 -
[1411]
Edited by: Childstar on 04/04/2009 19:49:55
Originally by: NightmareX
1. Fitting 3 HS II on the Abaddon when comparing it to 2x MFS II fitted Mega is not stupid at all then?.
The abaddon can handle it, if the mega cannot then that just shows yet another reason it needs fixing.
Originally by: NightmareX
2. The Megathron capacitor with 7x neutrons and one Solcace RR and a Medium Cap Booster II, 2x Plates and 2x MFS II is going to last is 1 min and 19 secs after what EFT says, while the Abaddon with a Heavy Cap Booster II only last for 1 min and 22 secs with 7 guns and 1 RR. This setup is with 3x HS II's. Oh boy, cap hungry ships is always fun to fight.
Give it a rest, the mega needs to run its mwd a LOT, while the abaddons have the range to hardly ever need to use it.
Originally by: NightmareX
3. If i did write in a t2 RR on the Abaddon earlier, then it was a typo. Because when i started to compare the stats on the Abaddon and the Megathron, then both of the ships in EFT had a solace fitted. So the stats are the same anyways. Fixed the typo now though.
If the abaddon fits your cheap faction eanm's it gets:
82.7em, 77.5th, 74.0ki, 72.3ex with 142,111 EHP
And thats with the single plate fit i prefer...
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Traderboz
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Posted - 2009.04.04 19:58:00 -
[1412]
Quote:
1. Fitting 3 HS II on the Abaddon when comparing it to 2x MFS II fitted Mega is not stupid at all then?.
WTF does this have to do with anything? If I tell a 6 year old he's wrong because he tries to tell me 1 + 2 = 8, is it a valid response for him to say "So it's not wrong when little Billy says 2 + 3 = 7?!?"
Stay on topic, don't dodge. Fitting faction on one ship and not the other for the exact same module is silly. Period. Fit it on both, or don't fit it on one. The fact some other forum poster made a dumb post has NOTHING to do with this, so don't even bother bringing it up.
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.04.04 20:00:00 -
[1413]
Edited by: NightmareX on 04/04/2009 20:06:38
Originally by: Childstar
Edited by: Childstar on 04/04/2009 19:49:55
Originally by: NightmareX
1. Fitting 3 HS II on the Abaddon when comparing it to 2x MFS II fitted Mega is not stupid at all then?.
The abaddon can handle it, if the mega cannot then that just shows yet another reason it needs fixing.
Originally by: NightmareX
2. The Megathron capacitor with 7x neutrons and one Solcace RR and a Medium Cap Booster II, 2x Plates and 2x MFS II is going to last is 1 min and 19 secs after what EFT says, while the Abaddon with a Heavy Cap Booster II only last for 1 min and 22 secs with 7 guns and 1 RR. This setup is with 3x HS II's. Oh boy, cap hungry ships is always fun to fight.
Give it a rest, the mega needs to run its mwd a LOT, while the abaddons have the range to hardly ever need to use it.
Originally by: NightmareX
3. If i did write in a t2 RR on the Abaddon earlier, then it was a typo. Because when i started to compare the stats on the Abaddon and the Megathron, then both of the ships in EFT had a solace fitted. So the stats are the same anyways. Fixed the typo now though.
If the abaddon fits your cheap faction eanm's it gets:
82.7em, 77.5th, 74.0ki, 72.3ex with 142,111 EHP
And thats with the single plate fit i prefer...
1st thing. Yes the Megathron can handle 3x MFS II's perfectly fine if you fit the setup i posted.
2nd thing. The Mega doesn't need to run the MWD that much anyways.
Last thing. No the Abaddon doesn't get that stats with my setup and with one Amarr Navy EANM fitted. The EM resist on EM goes from 76.1 to 77.1 on the Abaddon with one Amarr Navy EANM.
Originally by: Traderboz
Fitting faction on one ship and not the other for the exact same module is silly. Period. Fit it on both, or don't fit it on one. The fact some other forum poster made a dumb post has NOTHING to do with this, so don't even bother bringing it up.
It's stupid to compare a 3x HS II fitted Abaddon to a 2x MFS II fitted Mega anyways. You get alot more DPS from fitting one extra damage mod, but then, you only get some few % more better EHP by fitting a faction EANM over a t2 one.
If you want to compare the ships with modules that you have to use to be able to fit the setup. Then you have to compare with the same amount of trimarks, the same amount of plates and the same amount of damage mods etc. Because we get the most accurate stats then.
But yes, fitting one faction EANM on the Mega will then make the comparsion not so good either i'm sure you will think. But if you want to use a setup with 3x MFS II's on the Mega then you have to use it to be able to fit everything within the CPU limit.
So yes, doing the 3x HS II vs 2x MFS II is pointless and stupid.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Childstar
|
Posted - 2009.04.04 20:06:00 -
[1414]
Originally by: NightmareX
1st thing. Yes the Megathron can handle 3x MFS II's perfectly fine if you fit the setup i posted.
Is that the med cap injector fit?...hows its tank with 3 mag stabs btw?...
Originally by: NightmareX
2nd thing. The Mega doesn't need to run the MWD that much anyways.
Ladies and gentlemen we have a winner for the most clueless player in eve.
Originally by: NightmareX
Last thing. No the Abaddon doesn't get that stats with my setup and with one Amarr Navy EANM fitted. The EM resist on EM goes from 76.1 to 77.1 on the Abaddon with one Amarr Navy EANM.
Learn to read i said my fit, you know the one done properly and with 2 eanm, 1 dcu, 1 plate, 3 heat sinks and 82.7em, 77.5th, 74.0ki, 72.3ex with 142,111 EHP.
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.04.04 20:09:00 -
[1415]
Edited by: NightmareX on 04/04/2009 20:11:17
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: NightmareX
1st thing. Yes the Megathron can handle 3x MFS II's perfectly fine if you fit the setup i posted.
Is that the med cap injector fit?...hows its tank with 3 mag stabs btw?...
Originally by: NightmareX
2nd thing. The Mega doesn't need to run the MWD that much anyways.
Ladies and gentlemen we have a winner for the most clueless player in eve.
Originally by: NightmareX
Last thing. No the Abaddon doesn't get that stats with my setup and with one Amarr Navy EANM fitted. The EM resist on EM goes from 76.1 to 77.1 on the Abaddon with one Amarr Navy EANM.
Learn to read i said my fit, you know the one done properly and with 2 eanm, 1 dcu, 1 plate, 3 heat sinks and 82.7em, 77.5th, 74.0ki, 72.3ex with 142,111 EHP.
First. If you use the same setups on the Mega and Abaddon as i posted earlier, then the tank on the Mega will last long enough.
Second thing. Learn to read MY FIT if you want to have a Megathron with 3x MFS II fitted. And not your pointless fit where a Mega can't fit a 3rd MFS II because of CPU issues.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Childstar
|
Posted - 2009.04.04 20:15:00 -
[1416]
Edited by: Childstar on 04/04/2009 20:16:04
Originally by: NightmareX
First. If you use the same setups on the mega and Abaddon as i posted earlier, then the tank on the Mega will last long enough.
So if the abaddon is badly fitted without the benifits of the faction gear the mega may win?...i doubt it tbh but i wont find out as badly fitting a abaddon is just stupid...
Originally by: NightmareX
Second thing. learn to read MY FIT if you want to have a megathron with 3x MFS II fitted.
YOUR mega fit with 3 x mag stabs has 95,663 EHP and still the massive explosive hole.....
MY 3 HS abaddon has 142,111 EHP with all holes well and truly plugged.
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.04.04 20:19:00 -
[1417]
Edited by: NightmareX on 04/04/2009 20:20:08
Originally by: Childstar
Edited by: Childstar on 04/04/2009 20:16:04
Originally by: NightmareX
First. If you use the same setups on the mega and Abaddon as i posted earlier, then the tank on the Mega will last long enough.
So if the abaddon is badly fitted without the benifits of the faction gear the mega may win?...i doubt it tbh but i wont find out as badly fitting a abaddon is just stupid...
Originally by: NightmareX
Second thing. learn to read MY FIT if you want to have a megathron with 3x MFS II fitted.
YOUR mega fit with 3 x mag stabs has 95,663 EHP and still the massive explosive hole.....
MY 3 HS abaddon has 142,111 EHP with all holes well and truly plugged.
Does the Abaddon need the faction EANM to be able to fit the setup?. No it doesn't. The Megathron does need it to fit 3x MFS II's on the setup.
No my Megathron with 3x MFS II's have 102886 EHP in EFT. And then does a fuk ton more DPS than the 3x HS II fitted Abaddon at 4.5 km.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Childstar
|
Posted - 2009.04.04 20:46:00 -
[1418]
Edited by: Childstar on 04/04/2009 20:53:02
Originally by: NightmareX
Does the Abaddon need the faction EANM to be able to fit the setup?. No it doesn't. The Megathron does need it to fit 3x MFS II's on the setup.
Of course the abaddon does not need to cos the abaddon does not suck...although on the uber fit i just showed you it uses 2.
Originally by: NightmareX
No my Megathron with 3x MFS II's have 102886 EHP in EFT.
I have checked my EFT and a mega with:
3 x t2 mag stabs.
1 x t2 dcu
1 x amarr navy eanm
1 x t2 adaptive nano plating
1 x 1600 reinforced rolled tungston plates 1
Gets 95,663 ehp with all level 5 skills, so unless my eft is buggered (again) id say you maybe have a differant fit or a t2 rig or maybe a implant on the ship not your clone.
Originally by: NightmareX
If you want to fit the Abaddon without using a -5% CPU implants for turrets, then you have to use 1x DC II, 2x 1600mm RTP, 1x EANM II and 3x HS II. Fit that in low slot and you can get away with fitting a -3% CPU implant for turrets.
Stop lying the 3 x HS RR abaddon does not need any implants if its fitted correctly.
7 x MP 2
1 x solace RR
1 x t2 HEAVY injector
1 x MWD
1 x fleeting web
1 x t2 warp disruptor
3 x HS
1 x t2 dcu
1 x 1600 reinforced rolled tungston plates 1
2 x amarr navy eanm (if you can use em so can i )
uses 699.25 cpu out of 700.
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
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Posted - 2009.04.04 20:54:00 -
[1419]
Edited by: NightmareX on 04/04/2009 20:56:16
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: NightmareX
Does the Abaddon need the faction EANM to be able to fit the setup?. No it doesn't. The Megathron does need it to fit 3x MFS II's on the setup.
Of course the abaddon does not need to cos the abaddon does not suck...
Originally by: NightmareX
No my Megathron with 3x MFS II's have 102886 EHP in EFT.
I have checked my EFT and a mega with:
3 x t2 mag stabs.
1 x t2 dcu
1 x amarr navy eanm
1 x t2 adaptive nano plating
1 x 1600 reinforced rolled tungston plates 1
Gets 95,663 ehp with all level 5 skills, so unless my eft is buggered (again) id say you maybe have a differant fit or a t2 rig or maybe a implant on the ship not your clone.
Originally by: NightmareX
If you want to fit the Abaddon without using a -5% CPU implants for turrets, then you have to use 1x DC II, 2x 1600mm RTP, 1x EANM II and 3x HS II. Fit that in low slot and you can get away with fitting a -3% CPU implant for turrets.
Stop lying the 3 x HS RR abaddon does not need any implants if its fitted correctly.
7 x MP 2
1 x solace RR
1 x t2 HEAVY injector
1 x MWD
1 x fleeting web
1 x t2 warp disruptor
3 x HS
1 x t2 dcu
1 x 1600 reinforced rolled tungston plates 1
2 x amarr navy eanm (if you can use em so can i )
uses 699.25 cpu out of 700.
First. LOL that was the dumbest reply so far. Haha.
Didn't you get the memo earlier?. You need to invest a little more isk on the megathron to get it to work very very nice.
Second thing. No, you don't have that on all kills on level 5. Because if i take the profile to NightmareX, also on how my skills are now, then i get around 94k EHP. But not when you have it on all skills on level 5, then i get the 102+k EHP.
Third thing. Yes yes, you edited my setup and changed the t2 EANM out for faction ones, and then you tell me i'm lying. Did i lie to you that you couldn't fit the t2 setup you posted earier without using a -5% cpu implant for turrets?.
Stop lying your self. So your still saying that your not manipulating the setups so you get the setups to looks better for the Abaddon?.
Wow, i think you must feel awesome now.
I have a pro tips to you, stop lying your self and shut up until you can make a post without editing the post and then tell others that they are lying because you edited it.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Childstar
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Posted - 2009.04.04 21:28:00 -
[1420]
Edited by: Childstar on 04/04/2009 21:29:28
Originally by: NightmareX
Didn't you get the memo earlier?. You need to invest a little more isk on the megathron to get it to work very very nice.
I got it so i invested a little isk in the abaddon and made it even better...
Originally by: NightmareX
Second thing. No, you don't have that on all skills on level 5. Because if i take the profile to NightmareX, not All skills on level 5, also on how my skills are now, then i get around 94k EHP. But not when you have it on all skills on level 5. I get the 102+k EHP when it's on All skills on level 5.
Look i dunno whats going on then cos i have checked the mega fit and my all lvl5 eft dude and even gone over his skills to make sure that actually ARE all lvl5 and none are less burt it still comes out lower (95,663 ehp) for some reason.
Originally by: NightmareX
Third thing. Yes yes, you edited my setup and changed the t2 EANM out for faction ones, and then you tell me i'm lying. Did i lie to you that you couldn't fit the t2 setup you posted earier without using a -5% cpu implant for turrets?.
On the one of the mega setups you used amarr navy eanm's but for some reason you ignored them even though they worked for my abaddon fit and chose to make a song and dance about it needing to fit a +5% expensive implant...like i said biased..
PS: stop ranting.
Oh and the megas resists with your 3 mag stab fit are 74.6em, 66.9th, 66.9ki, 54.2ex.
The abaddons with my uber fit are 82.7em, 77.5th, 74,ki, 72.3ex.
YOUR 3 x MFS mega fit hits the abaddon for 298.85dps after resists.
MY 3 x HS abaddon hits the mega for 289.19dps after resists.
So the mega does a grand total of 9.66 dps more after resists. Its gonna take you a while to get through the extra 40,000 EHP the abaddon has more than the mega at 9.66 dmg per second bud...
And you still only have that med injector....
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
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Posted - 2009.04.04 21:53:00 -
[1421]
Edited by: NightmareX on 04/04/2009 22:03:56
Originally by: Childstar
Oh and the megas resists with your 3 mag stab fit are 74.6em, 66.9th, 66.9ki, 54.2ex.
The abaddons with my uber fit are 82.7em, 77.5th, 74,ki, 72.3ex.
YOUR 3 x MFS mega fit hits the abaddon for 298.85dps after resists.
MY 3 x HS abaddon hits the mega for 289.19dps after resists.
So the mega does a grand total of 9.66 dps more after resists. Its gonna take you a while to get through the extra 40,000 EHP the abaddon has more than the mega at 9.66 dmg per second bud...
And you still only have that med injector....
Ok, since your using 2 faction modules, then i'm also gonna use 2 faction modules.
I did change the ANP II out for a faction ANP. So my resists are now higher. So now my Mega have one Amarr Navy EANM and one Dark Blood ANP.
Ofc you will get higher resists than me when you have already 25% better resists than a Mega because of the resist bonus. And because i only use one EANM and one ANP, then your 2x EANM fit will also get better resists by that.
But you know, EHP is not everything in PVP. It's alot more than that that are more important.
Maybe i haven't seen it yet, but can you tell me how you gets to the numbers of '3 x MFS mega fit hits the abaddon for 298.85dps after resists' and 'Your 3 x HS abaddon hits the mega for 289.19dps after resists'?.
I'll just want to see if your doing everything right here.
Yeah, the Neutron Mega only have a Medium Cap Booster II. Not like it need anything more though. I have never had problems with that when i have been testing out a Megathron with Neutrons and that with only a Medium Cap Booster II. I have in fact never been in cap troubles.
Anyways. After all, i don't care what ship that have higest stats. I think i use a Blaster Mega in RR gank gangs any days before i use an Abaddon for that. Simply because the RR Blaster Mega must be very good at something when it's so popular.
So i can then just use the advantages or the good things with the ship that actually makes it extremely usefull in those RR gank gangs rather than just going after the ships that have some higher numbers / stats in EFT.
How many Abaddons do you really see in RR gangs today?. It's not many if you compare that with how many Megathrons or RR Domis there are in those gangs.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Childstar
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Posted - 2009.04.04 22:04:00 -
[1422]
Edited by: Childstar on 04/04/2009 22:06:08
Originally by: NightmareX
Ok, since your using 2 faction modules, then i'm also gonna use 2 faction modules.
I did change the ANP II out for a faction ANP. So my resists are now higer. So now my Mega have one Amarr Navy EANM and one Dark Blood ANP.
How much id the DB ANP compared to the amarr navy ANP as only reasonably priced modules apply?.
Originally by: NightmareX
But you know, EHP is not everything in PVP. It's alot more than that that are more important.
Like cap?..your using a med injector in a blaster BS pal.
Like DMG?..you only do 9.66 more dps after resists.
Like range?..you have 300% less range and anything outside your perfect 4.5-5km optimal your dps drops while the abaddons does not.
And yes 40,000 more ehp on the baddon is very significant as well.
Originally by: NightmareX
Maybe i haven't seen it yet, but can you tell me how you gets to the numbers of '3 x MFS mega fit hits the abaddon for 298.85dps after resists' and 'Your 3 x HS abaddon hits the mega for 289.19dps after resists'?.
I'll just want to see if your doing everything right here.
If you know how to do it to check then you do not need me to explain it to you, figure it out your self, oh and i used sentries on both ships.
Originally by: NightmareX
Yeah, the Neutron Mega only have a Medium Cap Booster II. Not like it need anything more though. I have never had problems with that when i have been testing out a Megathron with Neutrons and that with only a Medium Cap Booster II. I have in fact never been in cap troubles.
You have never flown it in RR gang combat on TQ, playing around with it on sissi is worthless.
The only reason ppl use the mega now is because they have nothing else trained cos if they could fly amaar they would, even the RR phoon fit is better than the standard RR mega.
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
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Posted - 2009.04.04 22:21:00 -
[1423]
Edited by: NightmareX on 04/04/2009 22:21:47
Originally by: Childstar
You have never flown it in RR gang combat on TQ, playing around with it on sissi is worthless.
The only reason ppl use the mega now is because they have nothing else trained cos if they could fly amaar they would, even the RR phoon fit is better than the standard RR mega.
So what?, it's still a gang no matter if it's on sisi or TQ.
I don't know how many times i have done a RR BS gangs on sisi against everybody else in FFA 1. But i think it's in the xxxx numbers there. I for sure have learned from that even when it's from sisi.
The most fun thing i did was not with a Megathron though, but it was with a Kronos on sisi. I had my Kronos with 2x LAR's, 1x Armor Explosive Hardener II, 1x DC II, 2x EANM II's and one MFS II. And with 3x t1 Aux Nano Pumps.
The Hight slot was with 4x t2 Ions and 2x Medium Neuts and one offlined Medium Neut.
Med slot was the normal one. 1x 100MN MWD II, 1x Warp Disruptor II, 1x Stasis Webifier II, and 1x Heavy Capacitor Booster.
We was 3 in gang, and we went up against 6 ships. The other 2 guys in my gang had a Typhoon with 2x LRAR and a Raven with 2x LRAR to.
The gang we was fighting had 2x Geddons, 1x Abaddon, 2x Tempest's and one Astarte. And they had no RR's fitted either. ***s, big mistake by them.
I first warped in and made them to aggro me, then i told the 2 other guys to warp in to RR me and shoot the targets i'm telling to shoot.
While they was shooting me, i was also using an armor rep pill.
Can you guess what the end result was here?.
Yes i know this is about a Kronos here, but that's not the point. The point here is that when your smarter than the other gang, you will win in most of the cases no matter reasons.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Childstar
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Posted - 2009.04.04 22:37:00 -
[1424]
Originally by: NightmareX
And you know, it's like 1 year and 4 months since the FOTM of Amarr started.
Amarr got better 1yr 4 months ago but it was the web nerf that screwed a lot of blaster BS pilots and that was not 1yr 4 months ago. Anyway the very fact that their have been dozens of threads about the problems with blaster BS all full of very experianced blastyer BS pilots pointing out the problems gives you a clue.
Originally by: NightmareX
Then why don't we see any more Amarr battleships in gangs now than it was before that?. Or maybe there is some few more % that use an Abaddon or Geddons now.
We do, even the guys you tried to show as blaster users have started using more amarr BS now.
Originally by: NightmareX
Yes i know this is about a Kronos here, but that's not the point.
That is part of the point, the rest is that it proved and showed nothing other than sissi bears no resembalance to TQ.
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
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Posted - 2009.04.04 22:46:00 -
[1425]
Edited by: NightmareX on 04/04/2009 22:50:25
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: NightmareX
And you know, it's like 1 year and 4 months since the FOTM of Amarr started.
Amarr got better 1yr 4 months ago but it was the web nerf that screwed a lot of blaster BS pilots and that was not 1yr 4 months ago. Anyway the very fact that their have been dozens of threads about the problems with blaster BS all full of very experianced blastyer BS pilots pointing out the problems gives you a clue.
Originally by: NightmareX
Then why don't we see any more Amarr battleships in gangs now than it was before that?. Or maybe there is some few more % that use an Abaddon or Geddons now.
We do, even the guys you tried to show as blaster users have started using more amarr BS now.
Originally by: NightmareX
Yes i know this is about a Kronos here, but that's not the point.
That is part of the point, the rest is that it proved and showed nothing other than sissi bears no resembalance to TQ.
1. For me the web nerf did nothing to me. Blasters still works good FOR ME.
2. Yeah they train Amarr because they have maxed their Gallente skills. Oh noes, someone is training skills when they don't have other skills to train, waaaaah.
3. You clearly didn't read and did understand what the whole point by the RR gangs i often do on sisi is all about.
You only think boohoo, it's sisi so it can't be true. But when i have done RR gangs thousands of times on Sisi, i'm sure i have tried every possible ways you can fight and do RR gangs in. Then i'm sure i can say how RR gangs works and i'm also sure i can say that i have learned alot by that.
There is LOTS of times i just have started a gang and then asked like 4-5 others to just start a gang without even saying what kind of ships they are going to use, just to see what the end results is.
How often do you find enemies that just want to set up a gang with 10 ships only because you have 10 ships on TQ?. It's almost never happening.
On sisi though. You can test out RR gangs against another RR gangs etc all day long and find out the strong parts and the weak parts of some ships in RR gangs. There is ALWAYS gangs in FFA 1 anyways.
And your fighting all kinds of players with both much more skillpoints and way more experience than my gang have etc. But ofc it's sometimes that we gets over another RR gang that have much less skillpoints and not so much experience.
So it all depends on how the end results is. It's just fun and very cool to be able to test out RR gangs all the time on sisi, because there is other gangs on sisi anyways. So to fight other gangs is available almost 23/7 there.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Childstar
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Posted - 2009.04.04 22:51:00 -
[1426]
Originally by: NightmareX
You only think boohoo, it's sisi so it can't be true. But when you have done thousands of times in a RR gang on Sisi, i'm sure i have tried every possible ways you can fight and do RR gangs in. Then i'm sure i can say how RR gangs works.
If you have tried every way then its about time you grew a pair and did it on TQ instead of hiding on sissi where the ships and uber fits are dirt cheap.
Originally by: NightmareX
How often do you find enemies that just want to set up a gang with 10 ships only because you have 10 ships?. It's almost never happening.
On TQ?..never and thats the point, you play on sissi cos you NEED to organise fights that suit you instead of getting on TQ and needing to fully adapt, properly scout and be prepared to be blobbed half way through a fight.
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
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Posted - 2009.04.04 22:59:00 -
[1427]
Edited by: NightmareX on 04/04/2009 23:00:46
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: NightmareX
You only think boohoo, it's sisi so it can't be true. But when you have done thousands of times in a RR gang on Sisi, i'm sure i have tried every possible ways you can fight and do RR gangs in. Then i'm sure i can say how RR gangs works.
If you have tried every way then its about time you grew a pair and did it on TQ instead of hiding on sissi where the ships and uber fits are dirt cheap.
Originally by: NightmareX
How often do you find enemies that just want to set up a gang with 10 ships only because you have 10 ships?. It's almost never happening.
On TQ?..never and thats the point, you play on sissi cos you NEED to organise fights that suit you instead of getting on TQ and needing to fully adapt, properly scout and be prepared to be blobbed half way through a fight.
1. I have done it when i have had the time yeah. I'm the person who like to test out things to and not just waste isk on TQ just to test out something that you can test for free on sisi. That's what the test server are for. You can test out EVERY possible ways that have with PVP to do.
Or to be more exact, you can test out everything on sisi.
2. It's happening some few times. Saying never is a lie.
Yes i TEST out things and find out the best possible way to fit your ship and the best ship to use for the different tasks your going to do in PVP. Because then i don't need to waste tons of isk and many many wasted weeks just to find out how a ship is working in PVP.
When i have got my own results on how things are with the different ships on sisi, then i move over to TQ and then have it easy to choose a ship when i know what kind of PVP ops we are going to do. That's the ONLY reason i'm testing out ships on sisi, it's just to do the work on TQ way way more easier.
And everytime i have tested a ship on Sisi and then used the same ship with the same setup as i used on Sisi, then i have never seen that the ship i use on TQ is any poorer because it's TQ and not Sisi.
The ships have always worked as good on TQ as it does on Sisi for me. And that's the whole point why i take sisi into the picture here.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Childstar
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Posted - 2009.04.04 23:27:00 -
[1428]
Originally by: NightmareX
1. I have done it when i have had the time yeah. I'm the person who like to test out things to and not just waste isk on TQ just to test out something that you can test for free on sisi. That's what the test server are for. You can test out EVERY possible ways that have with PVP to do.
YUou do not tesat on sissi you play on sissi because its easier to post in local and ask for a gang or ship to fight than it is on TQ to go looking for one and maybe getting owned. You have been playing on sissi for years and the excuse "im testing stuffs" got old long ago.
Anyway my PC seems to be borked as windows defender will not start and my update manager refuses to work so i need to figure out wtf is going on with it.
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
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Posted - 2009.04.04 23:39:00 -
[1429]
Edited by: NightmareX on 04/04/2009 23:39:52
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: NightmareX
1. I have done it when i have had the time yeah. I'm the person who like to test out things to and not just waste isk on TQ just to test out something that you can test for free on sisi. That's what the test server are for. You can test out EVERY possible ways that have with PVP to do.
YUou do not tesat on sissi you play on sissi because its easier to post in local and ask for a gang or ship to fight than it is on TQ to go looking for one and maybe getting owned. You have been playing on sissi for years and the excuse "im testing stuffs" got old long ago.
Anyway my PC seems to be borked as windows defender will not start and my update manager refuses to work so i need to figure out wtf is going on with it.
I test out things on sisi because i want to know how things works without having to spend tons of isk on TQ to find it out on TQ.
If i play on sisi just because i can, then why haven't i been so much on sisi lately then?.
I can tell you why i haven't been so much there now, it's simply because there isn't so much new things to test out.
When i want to test out something that i haven't tested out before, then i log on sisi and test it out. And when i test out things i don't only do a 15 min pew pew test of the ships and then log off, nah, i'm using hours after hours to test out alot of things with the ships.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
AmarQuan
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Posted - 2009.04.05 00:06:00 -
[1430]
Originally by: NightmareX
I test out things on sisi because i want to know how things works without having to spend tons of isk on TQ to find it out on TQ.
If i play on sisi just because i can, then why haven't i been so much on sisi lately then?.
I can tell you why i haven't been so much there now, it's simply because there isn't so much new things to test out.
When i want to test out something that i haven't tested out before, then i log on sisi and test it out. And when i test out things i don't only do a 15 min pew pew test of the ships and then log off, nah, i'm using hours after hours to test out alot of things with the ships.
weird. you say yourself that you use faction fitted minmatar ships and t2 bs hull for blasters, you also test everything "hours after hours", yet don't know how to fit either an abba, nor a mega.
with all this, you still claim everything is ok (nevermind obvious facts). you need less testing and more conclusion drawing,
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
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Posted - 2009.04.05 00:21:00 -
[1431]
Originally by: AmarQuan
Originally by: NightmareX
I test out things on sisi because i want to know how things works without having to spend tons of isk on TQ to find it out on TQ.
If i play on sisi just because i can, then why haven't i been so much on sisi lately then?.
I can tell you why i haven't been so much there now, it's simply because there isn't so much new things to test out.
When i want to test out something that i haven't tested out before, then i log on sisi and test it out. And when i test out things i don't only do a 15 min pew pew test of the ships and then log off, nah, i'm using hours after hours to test out alot of things with the ships.
weird. you say yourself that you use faction fitted minmatar ships and t2 bs hull for blasters, you also test everything "hours after hours", yet don't know how to fit either an abba, nor a mega.
with all this, you still claim everything is ok (nevermind obvious facts). you need less testing and more conclusion drawing,
All of my setups on sisi is all pure t2 on all of the ships.
The only ship i have on sisi, that i also have on TQ with the same setup is the Megathron Navy Issue. And it's fitted with faction and officer modules.
That's the only ship i have that are fitted with faction & officer modules.
The Navy Mega with the setup on TQ is worth around 1.1 bill isk atm.
Oh while thinking on faction BS'es. What faction BS does Amarr have that is a good close range BS?. Oh wat, don't say me that the Navy Apoc is a good close range BS lol.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Childstar
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Posted - 2009.04.05 00:44:00 -
[1432]
Originally by: NightmareX
All of my setups on sisi is all pure t2 on all of the ships.
Including rigs and HG implants making any data you gather worthless for TQ.
Originally by: NightmareX
The only ship i have on sisi, that i also have on TQ with the same setup is the Megathron Navy Issue. And it's fitted with faction and officer modules.
That's the only ship i have that are fitted with faction & officer modules.
The Navy Mega with the setup on TQ is worth around 1.1 bill isk atm.
And you have never pvp'd in it....
Pretty much sums you up tbh...
Originally by: NightmareX
Oh while thinking on faction BS'es. What faction BS does Amarr have that is a good close range BS?. Oh wat, don't say me that the Navy Apoc is a good close range BS lol.
What makes you think your faction fitted navy mega is good for close range BS pvp when you have never tried it?.
Il tell you pal it is good....a good target..
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
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Posted - 2009.04.05 01:01:00 -
[1433]
Edited by: NightmareX on 05/04/2009 01:05:32
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: NightmareX
All of my setups on sisi is all pure t2 on all of the ships.
Including rigs and HG implants making any data you gather worthless for TQ.
Originally by: NightmareX
The only ship i have on sisi, that i also have on TQ with the same setup is the Megathron Navy Issue. And it's fitted with faction and officer modules.
That's the only ship i have that are fitted with faction & officer modules.
The Navy Mega with the setup on TQ is worth around 1.1 bill isk atm.
And you have never pvp'd in it....
Pretty much sums you up tbh...
Originally by: NightmareX
Oh while thinking on faction BS'es. What faction BS does Amarr have that is a good close range BS?. Oh wat, don't say me that the Navy Apoc is a good close range BS lol.
What makes you think your faction fitted navy mega is good for close range BS pvp when you have never tried it?.
Il tell you pal it is good....a good target..
1. So your saying that no one on sisi is using t2 rigs and HG slave / crystal sets there?. Ofc when 90% of the other players there are using it, then i will use it so i can get the best results when i test a ship with t2 rigs and HG slave implants. Because if i don't use HG slave set and only t1 rigs while the others i'm going to test against are using HG slave / crystal sets and while they use t2 rigs, then my tests will be pointless and waste of time.
And my results wont be good at all.
2. Do you even know why i haven't used it yet?. First check my sec status. 2nd check what sec status the system Hentogaira is.
When i have got my sec status up to -1.9, i'm going to get my Navy Mega in Hentogaira and start using it in empire and low sec. I'm sooooo looking forward to it.
Do you even know why i did buy the Navy Mega?. I did it because it's the most awesome RR gang BS that exist atm.
3. When a normal Megathron works very good for me in RR gangs, then i can for sure say that the Navy Mega works even better. Yes i have had the chance to test out the Navy Mega on sisi though while i'm waiting to grind my sec status up.
Yeah ooooooooh it's a good target. But is there any fun if your not getting shoot at all then?. No ships is made to stay alive forever.
I know my Navy Mega is going to die at some point. But i don't care. I can buy 2 more Navy Megas with the same setup as i have on it now though.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Childstar
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Posted - 2009.04.05 01:19:00 -
[1434]
Originally by: NightmareX
1. So your saying that no one on sisi is using t2 rigs and HG slave / crystal sets there?.
No i am saying that they do and because of that the data they gather is worthless for TQ.
PS: do you really need to explain every little thought and deluded rant that runs through your brain?
I DO NOT CARE SO UNLESS YOU HAVE MORE SILLY FITS OR ON TOPIC SUBJECTS TO POST STFU ABOUT YOUR SISSI CRAP COS ITS IRRELAVANT.
Communicating with you is like talking to a 11 year old, grow up or go away.
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
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Posted - 2009.04.05 01:28:00 -
[1435]
Edited by: NightmareX on 05/04/2009 01:30:36
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: NightmareX
1. So your saying that no one on sisi is using t2 rigs and HG slave / crystal sets there?.
No i am saying that they do and because of that the data they gather is worthless for TQ.
PS: do you really need to explain every little thought and deluded rant that runs through your brain?
I DO NOT CARE SO UNLESS YOU HAVE MORE SILLY FITS OR ON TOPIC SUBJECTS TO POST STFU ABOUT YOUR SISSI CRAP COS ITS IRRELAVANT.
Communicating with you is like talking to a 11 year old, grow up or go away.
And i will continue to tell about how aweome Sisi as long you don't understand that the Abaddon is not the best ship for RR gangs.
Maybe i can say the same to you that your like a 11 year old cry baby that doesn't want to take the facts as things are on TQ right now. Like that the Blaster Mega is the most popular RR gang BS atm on TQ.
When you realize that, then i'm going to stop talking about sisi.
When many are using Blaster Megas in RR gangs, then it will be much easier for me to if i'm in a Blaster BS to so i can be a part of the others that takes Kinetic and Thermal damage where omni tanks is not strongest against.
EDIT: And just so you know it. I will use a Rokh any days before i will use an Abaddon.
Many of the tings i do on sisi have alot to do with TQ to. So whine / cry as much you can. I wont move your tears away from your chin.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Childstar
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Posted - 2009.04.05 01:49:00 -
[1436]
Edited by: Childstar on 05/04/2009 01:50:19
Megas resists with your 3 mag stab fit are 74.6em, 66.9th, 66.9ki, 54.2ex with 95,663 EHP.
The abaddons with my uber fit are 82.7em, 77.5th, 74,ki, 72.3ex 142,111 EHP.
Megas 3 x MFS mega fit hits the abaddon for 298.85dps after resists.
MY 3 x HS abaddon hits the mega for 289.19dps after resists.
The mega has 0-5km of range with that dps.
The abaddon has 0-15km of range with that dps.
The abaddon can fit a LARGE INJECTOR.
The mega can only fit a MEDIUM INJECTOR.
So the mega does a grand total of 9.66 dps more after resists.
The abaddon has 40,000 more EHP.
VS
nightmarex saying:
WAAAAAAA "BUT PPL FLY MEGAS STILL" WAAAAAAAAA.
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
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Posted - 2009.04.05 01:52:00 -
[1437]
Edited by: NightmareX on 05/04/2009 01:54:39
Originally by: Childstar
Megas resists with your 3 mag stab fit are 74.6em, 66.9th, 66.9ki, 54.2ex with 95,663 EHP.
The abaddons with my uber fit are 82.7em, 77.5th, 74,ki, 72.3ex 142,111 EHP.
Megas 3 x MFS mega fit hits the abaddon for 298.85dps after resists.
MY 3 x HS abaddon hits the mega for 289.19dps after resists.
The mega has 0-5km of range with that dps.
The abaddon has 0-15km of range with that dps.
The abaddon can fit a LARGE INJECTOR.
The mega can only fit a MEDIUM INJECTOR.
So the mega does a grand total of 9.66 dps more after resists.
The abaddon has 40,000 more EHP.
VS
WAAAAAAA "BUT PPL FLY MEGAS STILL" WAAAAAAAAA.
Pointless 1 vs 1 stats comparsion is pointless.
I ONLY cares about what ship is the best RR BS ship to use today, not what kind of ships that have the highest EHP.
The Megathron is the most used RR gang BS today, and it's a damn good reason for that. And if you don't know why, then it sucks to be you.
Anyways, going to bed, so have fun with your pointless 1 vs 1 comparsion of 2 ships when we are talking about RR gang situations.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Childstar
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Posted - 2009.04.05 02:03:00 -
[1438]
Edited by: Childstar on 05/04/2009 02:05:53
Originally by: NightmareX
Pointless 1 vs 1 stats comparsion is pointless.
Its not a 1 v 1 stat its a comparison of the available attributes that the ships have.
Originally by: NightmareX
I ONLY cares about what ship is the best RR BS ship to use today, not what kind of ships that have the highest EHP.
The RR phoon and the RR abaddon are much better than the RR mega.
And the reason you are so focused on the fact that the mega is still flown is because you lost every rational and factual argument so you needed to find a (il)logic loop. So you are trying to use the fact that the mega is still flown to leap to non-existant conclusions about it being uber, its rather sad actually.
PPL still fly lots of ships in eve that suck and always have, when amarr sucked ppl still flew them and the same applies now, only its blaster battleships that suck and ppl aint trained another race yet or cannot be bothered to as they know things will eventually get changed.
You tried to spin the same crap with your electric alt and you are doing it again here so so so sad...
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Traderboz
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Posted - 2009.04.05 02:19:00 -
[1439]
Part of me is entertained by this thread, another part could care less, and yet another part is annoyed with the obvious bias in some of the failfits posted and the faulty conclusions drawn therefrom. I'll probably keep reading it just because I can't seem to look away.
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Childstar
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Posted - 2009.04.05 02:25:00 -
[1440]
Originally by: Traderboz
Part of me is entertained by this thread, another part could care less, and yet another part is annoyed with the obvious bias in some of the failfits posted and the faulty conclusions drawn therefrom. I'll probably keep reading it just because I can't seem to look away.
Maybe you would like to post a list of win fits if your such a pro...
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
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Posted - 2009.04.05 02:37:00 -
[1441]
Edited by: NightmareX on 05/04/2009 02:44:49
Originally by: Childstar
Edited by: Childstar on 05/04/2009 02:05:53
Originally by: NightmareX
Pointless 1 vs 1 stats comparsion is pointless.
Its not a 1 v 1 stat its a comparison of the available attributes that the ships have.
Originally by: NightmareX
I ONLY cares about what ship is the best RR BS ship to use today, not what kind of ships that have the highest EHP.
The RR phoon and the RR abaddon are much better than the RR mega.
And the reason you are so focused on the fact that the mega is still flown is because you lost every rational and factual argument so you needed to find a (il)logic loop. So you are trying to use the fact that the mega is still flown to leap to non-existant conclusions about it being uber, its rather sad actually.
PPL still fly lots of ships in eve that suck and always have, when amarr sucked ppl still flew them and the same applies now, only its blaster battleships that suck and ppl aint trained another race yet or cannot be bothered to as they know things will eventually get changed.
You tried to spin the same crap with your electric alt and you are doing it again here so so so sad...
Ok, just to add the last word before i really are going to bed.
1. Yes it was clearly a 1 vs 1 stats between the Abaddon and megathron you did. And that's pointless when we are talking about RR gangs.
2. No the Abaddon is not better than the Mega when it's about RR gangs. The Typhoon might be better for RR, but then, you need a crap ton of SP behind your character before you can use the Typhoon effectivly.
3. LOL talk about a dumb reason. There must be a reason why the Mega is so much used. I'm not dumb. If i had seen that the Abaddon had been better than the Mega for RR gangs, then i would ofc train for the Abaddon then. Helooooooooo, i'm always after the ships that are best for the different tasks i'm doing.
And it doesn't take long time to train from Gallente to Amarr anyways, so it's easy to do that. And then, why are so few doing it?. Amarr have been FOTM for 1 year and 4 months now, plenty of times to go from Gallente to Amarr. And then you say the Gallente players are doing it now, after 1 year and 4 months after the Amarr FOTM started, lol.
Maybe it's because Amarr BS'es aren't so good as some peoples here says they are. And because they rather max out their Gallente skills before they switch over to another race. BINGO, that's the reason.
If the Blaster Mega is the best ship for me in RR gangs, then i will ofc use the Blaster Mega then. I'm not listening to what some clueless 1 vs 1 noobs are telling me on the forum. I use the ships that is best FOR ME. And not what EFT says is the best stats wise.
I'm always after the ships that gives me most action and the ships that i have to use my brain on before i PVP in it. It's not fun for me to be a sitting duck and press F1-F8, boom goes the frig, F1-F8 on next target, boom goes the cruiser, F1-F8 on next target.
Yes i like to have the feeling that i have done something more than just pressing F1-F8 in PVP.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.04.05 02:39:00 -
[1442]
Edited by: NightmareX on 05/04/2009 02:39:38
Ops double post
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Fatality Killer
Minmatar
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2009.04.05 02:40:00 -
[1443]
Originally by: Childstar
You tried to spin the same crap with your electric alt and you are doing it again here so so so sad...
Ehm, i'm not sure how many times i have told you that me, Fatality Killer is NightmareX's alt.
Maybe i should write a letter to you where the same is written so you have it documented on paper?.
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Childstar
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Posted - 2009.04.05 02:47:00 -
[1444]
Edited by: Childstar on 05/04/2009 02:51:42
Originally by: NightmareX
1. Yes it was clearly a 1 vs 1 stats between the Abaddon and megathron you did. And that's pointless when we are talking about RR gangs.
They were comparative stats that fully apply to RR gang combat.
How is 40,000 more ehp per ship with better resists and no holes pointless in RR gangs?.
How is a large cap injector pointless compared to a medium in RR gangs?.
How is 300% more range at the dmg amounts mentioned pointless in RR gangs?.
Originally by: NightmareX
No the Abaddon is not better than the Mega when it's about RR gangs. The Typhoon might be better for RR, but then, you need a crap ton of SP behind your character before you can use the Typhoon effectivly.
The abaddon is better in every way unless you fit the mega with 3 mag stabs then the mega does 9.66 more dps on the abaddon at 4.5km than the abaddon does against it....LOL.
Oh and just in case you cannot do the math in a 20 vs 20 RR BS fight that is 192 more dps for the mega gang.....
And 800,000 more EHP for the abaddon gang...
You had no idea how to fit a blaster ship for TQ before this thread educated you and you certainly do not know how to fly them or understand their weaknesses.
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Childstar
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Posted - 2009.04.05 02:53:00 -
[1445]
Originally by: Fatality Killer
Originally by: Childstar
You tried to spin the same crap with your electric alt and you are doing it again here so so so sad...
Ehm, i'm not sure how many times i have told you that me, Fatality Killer is NightmareX's alt.
Maybe i should write a letter to you where the same is written so you have it documented on paper, so you don't forget is like you have done now for the 46947649867494th times now?.
You could try and stop lying about it, i bet that would help a little..
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Traderboz
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Posted - 2009.04.05 02:57:00 -
[1446]
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: Traderboz
Part of me is entertained by this thread, another part could care less, and yet another part is annoyed with the obvious bias in some of the failfits posted and the faulty conclusions drawn therefrom. I'll probably keep reading it just because I can't seem to look away.
Maybe you would like to post a list of win fits if your such a pro...
I was referring to NeutronThrons running a their guns, RR and a MWD, all on a single medium cap booster, faction EANM's being fit only on one ship in a ship-to-ship comparison (with no explanation given to justify it other than "it fit", which says nothing about why it wasn't fit on the other ship), etc.
Nightmare says he doesn't really go by EFT stats when he chooses ships to fly, and I believe that. I'm glad he flies what works for him. But trying to justify things with EFT just isn't working out imo.
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ChalSto
LOCKDOWN.
Force Of Evil
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Posted - 2009.04.05 02:59:00 -
[1447]
Originally by: NightmareX
I ONLY cares about what ship is the best RR BS ship to use today, not what kind of ships that have the highest EHP.
The Megathron is the most used RR gang BS today, and it's a damn good reason for that. And if you don't know why, then it sucks to be you.
.
For gods shake.....look at your own alliance before you post such crap.
The megathron is a common ship in RR-gang...yes....but with RAILGUNS!
A RR-rep-bthron SUCKS in RR-gangs.
In 6 years of EvE, I havent seen a SINGLE working RR-rep-Bthron-gang. Not
a freaking single one. The ones that tryed it got owned so badly that it wasnt
even funny.
And now YOU come here, trying to tell ME, that a RR-bthron is awesome?
Even the RR-rep-Railthron is outperformed to badly by a rr-rep-typhoon, that
I fly one insteat of a mega in FoE gangs. And FoE are specialists in RR-gangs.
Hundreds of people tell you, that you are wrong. And yet you claim, that you
have enough experience to tell people like ME, that that I am wrong?
God damit....even CCP Nozh admited, that there¦s something wrong with blasters!
Its like you trying to tell Chribba how to mine veldspar.
You dont read the alliance forums
You dont participate on ops
You are barly online on TQ
Your experience with Bthrons are pretty limited
Normaly I wouldnt dare to smack allaince-m8s, but its getting pathetic.
Originally by: Agmar
-----------------------------------------------
"The North is so ghey that even the NPCs fly ravens." |
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.04.05 03:23:00 -
[1448]
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: NightmareX
1. Yes it was clearly a 1 vs 1 stats between the Abaddon and megathron you did. And that's pointless when we are talking about RR gangs.
They were comparative stats that fully apply to RR gang combat.
How is 40,000 more ehp per ship with better resists and no holes pointless in RR gangs?.
How is a large cap injector pointless compared to a medium in RR gangs?.
How is 300% more range at the dmg amounts mentioned pointless in RR gangs?.
Originally by: NightmareX
No the Abaddon is not better than the Mega when it's about RR gangs. The Typhoon might be better for RR, but then, you need a crap ton of SP behind your character before you can use the Typhoon effectivly.
The abaddon is better in every way unless you fit the mega with 3 mag stabs then the mega does 9.66 more dps on the abaddon at 4.5km than the abaddon does against it....LOL.
You had no idea how to fit a blaster ship for TQ before this thread educated you and you certainly do not know how to fly them or understand their weaknesses.
About the Heavy Cap Booster vs the Medium Cap Booster.
Do you know how much cap the Abaddon eats every minutes?. And do you know how much cap the Blaster Mega eats per minute. The Pulse Abaddon eats butt load more cap than the Blaster Mega does. So that's the reason the Mega doesn't need the Heavy Cap Booster.
And then about the 300% more range.
Do you really think 300% more range will help if the other gang with Blaster Megas and RR Domis will warp in right on top of you?. And when 6 Gallente BS'es warps in on your 6 man gang, i'm sure they will spread points and webs on most of you anways, so your not going anywhere.
Not like we need to get anywhere in out Gallente BS'es anyways, because we need to be within 8.5 km anyways so we can rep each others.
And yeah, when we warp in right on top of you and then you try to MWD out, it's not like that all of you are going to MWDing out in the same direction. You will rather be spread out. And what does that mean, yes you will most likely get out of RR range if your trying to move out.
Then to you next thing.
You say i didn't know how to fit a Mega before this topic started?. Oh, so you mean that the Navy Mega i have had for many months before this topic even started is not good fitted because i didn't know how to fit it?.
LOL, with my current setup and the HG Slave set, my Navy Mega have 340k EHP (74.9k Armor HP). And it's still doing 1013 DPS.
Heh, and this is with 2x faction EANM's and one officer ANP and 3x 1600mm RTP's + 3x t1 trimarks and a HG slave set.
Now lets say that i'm a crazy person who like to spend even more isk on my Navy Mega. And then i'm putting 3x T2 trimarks on my Navy Mega to. Then i will get 368k EHP (82355 armor HP) on my Navy Mega.
I have 80% EM, 74% Thermal and Kinetic and 64% Explosive resists on the ship though.
Yes i have tested this, but take a guess on how long time it took a 1200+ DPS gank geddon to take my armor down on my Navy Mega with 82.3k armor hp (368k EHP) with the resists i have?.
LOL, i could have taken a long nap before he got to even 30% armor.
I can also just change the Large Solace RR out for a Republic Fleet Cruise Missile Launcher if i'm not doing any RR things, just to get more DPS.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Traderboz
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Posted - 2009.04.05 03:26:00 -
[1449]
Originally by: "the plot thickens"
/popcorn
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
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Posted - 2009.04.05 03:34:00 -
[1450]
Originally by: ChalSto
Originally by: NightmareX
I ONLY cares about what ship is the best RR BS ship to use today, not what kind of ships that have the highest EHP.
The Megathron is the most used RR gang BS today, and it's a damn good reason for that. And if you don't know why, then it sucks to be you.
.
For gods shake.....look at your own alliance before you post such crap.
The megathron is a common ship in RR-gang...yes....but with RAILGUNS!
A RR-rep-bthron SUCKS in RR-gangs.
In 6 years of EvE, I havent seen a SINGLE working RR-rep-Bthron-gang. Not
a freaking single one. The ones that tryed it got owned so badly that it wasnt
even funny.
And now YOU come here, trying to tell ME, that a RR-bthron is awesome?
Even the RR-rep-Railthron is outperformed to badly by a rr-rep-typhoon, that
I fly one insteat of a mega in FoE gangs. And FoE are specialists in RR-gangs.
Hundreds of people tell you, that you are wrong. And yet you claim, that you
have enough experience to tell people like ME, that that I am wrong?
God damit....even CCP Nozh admited, that there¦s something wrong with blasters!
Its like you trying to tell Chribba how to mine veldspar.
You dont read the alliance forums
You dont participate on ops
You are barly online on TQ
Your experience with Bthrons are pretty limited
Normaly I wouldnt dare to smack allaince-m8s, but its getting pathetic.
How often do you see RR gangs with Megas that have Rails fitted?. LOL almost never. There is a reason for it.
Try to tell my Navy Mega that it's not an awesome RR gang ship. That's in fact the only ship i care about when it's about RR tbh.
Yes like i said over, a RR Typhoon might be better than the RR Mega, but then, how many more times with skillspoints do you need in the Typhoon over how much you need to have in a RR Mega?. That's 2 different worlds tbqh.
You need a crazy amount of SP to be able to fly the Typhoon good. And you don't need to get so much SP by using a RR Blaster Mega by miles. Take that into the picture.
No it's not by my experience i'm telling that Blaster Megas is the most used RR gang BS today. I'm going after what some killboards are telling and what movies tells to.
I read the alliance forum every day.
I have been doing some ops the last days now when i finally have had the time to do it. So don't lie about that.
I'm not much online on TQ and Sisi now because i have a RL that makes my play time on EVE very very little now.
And i don't directly need to have my own experience with my Mega / Navy Mega before i can understand that the Blaster mega is the most popular ships overall. I can read though. And i have a brain to think with to.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
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Liang Nuren
No Salvation
PuPPet MasTers
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Posted - 2009.04.05 04:43:00 -
[1451]
Originally by: NightmareX
How often do you see RR gangs with Megas that have Rails fitted?. LOL almost never. There is a reason for it.
Uh, what? I suppose COW didn't know aaannnyyything about RR BS's. Neither did Insurgency. Neither does your own alliance (on TQ). Can you please go check the alliance forums for (mandatory, required) RR BS fits that WORK?
Seriously, at this rate you're doing nothing more than entertaining the masses with ignorance.
/popcorn
-Liang
--
Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
www.kwikdeath.org |
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.04.05 08:31:00 -
[1452]
Edited by: NightmareX on 05/04/2009 08:33:11
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: NightmareX
How often do you see RR gangs with Megas that have Rails fitted?. LOL almost never. There is a reason for it.
Uh, what? I suppose COW didn't know aaannnyyything about RR BS's. Neither did Insurgency. Neither does your own alliance (on TQ). Can you please go check the alliance forums for (mandatory, required) RR BS fits that WORK?
Seriously, at this rate you're doing nothing more than entertaining the masses with ignorance.
/popcorn
-Liang
I'm talking about today, or after the speed and web nerf. So how often do you see it today, except for us doing it some few times?.
It's ages since COW and Insurgency was running anyways.
And like i said earlier, our alliance is a bit different that most alliances when it's about PVP, so we use tactics that most don't use.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Childstar
|
Posted - 2009.04.05 09:39:00 -
[1453]
Originally by: NightmareX
About the Heavy Cap Booster vs the Medium Cap Booster.
Do you know how much cap the Abaddon eats every minutes?. And do you know how much cap the Blaster Mega eats per minute. The Pulse Abaddon eats butt load more cap than the Blaster Mega does. So that's the reason the Mega doesn't need the Heavy Cap Booster.
The mega needs to MWD a lot even if they land close to the other gang by the time they kill the primary the other gang will have moved away, the laser ships do not.
Originally by: NightmareX
And then about the 300% more range.
Do you really think 300% more range will help if the other gang with Blaster Megas and RR Domis will warp in right on top of you?. And when 6 Gallente BS'es warps in on your 6 man gang, i'm sure they will spread points and webs on most of you anways, so your not going anywhere.
Keep lowering the numbers pal im sure you may find a tiny niche where blasters may not suck.
Originally by: NightmareX
You say i didn't know how to fit a Mega before this topic started?. Oh, so you mean that the Navy Mega i have had for many months before this topic even started is not good fitted because i didn't know how to fit it?.
LOL, with my current setup and the HG Slave set, my Navy Mega have 340k EHP (74.9k Armor HP). And it's still doing 1013 DPS.
Is that the one you have NEVER flown in combat on TQ?...
PS: LOL at you getting spanked by your own alliance members for being a clueless troll.
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
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Posted - 2009.04.05 12:42:00 -
[1454]
Edited by: NightmareX on 05/04/2009 13:37:09
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: NightmareX
About the Heavy Cap Booster vs the Medium Cap Booster.
Do you know how much cap the Abaddon eats every minutes?. And do you know how much cap the Blaster Mega eats per minute. The Pulse Abaddon eats butt load more cap than the Blaster Mega does. So that's the reason the Mega doesn't need the Heavy Cap Booster.
The mega needs to MWD a lot even if they land close to the other gang by the time they kill the primary the other gang will have moved away, the laser ships do not.
Originally by: NightmareX
And then about the 300% more range.
Do you really think 300% more range will help if the other gang with Blaster Megas and RR Domis will warp in right on top of you?. And when 6 Gallente BS'es warps in on your 6 man gang, i'm sure they will spread points and webs on most of you anways, so your not going anywhere.
Keep lowering the numbers pal im sure you may find a tiny niche where blasters may not suck.
Originally by: NightmareX
You say i didn't know how to fit a Mega before this topic started?. Oh, so you mean that the Navy Mega i have had for many months before this topic even started is not good fitted because i didn't know how to fit it?.
LOL, with my current setup and the HG Slave set, my Navy Mega have 340k EHP (74.9k Armor HP). And it's still doing 1013 DPS.
Is that the one you have NEVER flown in combat on TQ?...
PS: LOL at you getting spanked by your own alliance members for being a clueless troll.
1. I don't care how low your capacitor skills is, but i for sure don't have a problem to MWD a bit with a Medium Cap Booster II. I still have plenty on cap left after i have been MWDing a bit.
Like i have said, i have never had any problems with that. So if you have problems to use a Medium Cap Booster, then for sure don't use it.
2. It's still the fact, when the Blaster megas and some Domis warps right in on you, then i'm sure you omguber awesome 300% more range wont help no matter what you say.
3. I have flown the Navy Mega more than you think and tested it in most possible ways on sisi before i can use it on TQ now, so i know the ship and setup i have on it works extremely good.
But just so you know, atm i don't have the HG Slave set on TQ, because i'm rather getting a LG Slave set on TQ when i'm gonna start using the Navy Mega. With the LG Slave set i have 295k EHP (63140 armor HP). So it's still quite alot.
I got spanked by my own alliance mate?, hah, nah i don't think so. He didn't know that i had a RL and that i had been doing some inty ops the last days when i saw that i had time. And he said i don't read the alliance forum, but in fact i'm on there and check the forum every day.
Ofc, when someone is not right about me and why things are like it is now, then i have to update them on what's happening.
No, i'm not the person who smacks back on an alliance mate only because the alliance mate did it.
Anyways Child. Lets say you think Abaddon is the best RR BS ship because EFT says so. I'll accept that.
But then let me say that the Blaster Mega is the best RR BS ship because so many peoples are using it and because very few are moving from Gallente BS'es to Amarr BS'es. And because alot of killboards are saying the Mega is very popular. Even 1 year and 4 months after the Amarr FOTM started.
Now, wanna bet if a Blaster Mega is still the most popular close range BS in one year?. I can bet 500 mill isk on that the Blaster Mega will still be the most popular close range BS in one year by a large margin.
Wanna bet on it?. |
Childstar
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Posted - 2009.04.05 13:59:00 -
[1455]
Edited by: Childstar on 05/04/2009 14:06:06
Originally by: NightmareX
1. I don't care how low your capacitor skills is, but i for sure don't have a problem to MWD a bit with a Medium Cap Booster II. I still have plenty on cap left after i have been MWDing a bit.
Like i have said, i have never had any problems with that. So if you have problems to use a Medium Cap Booster, then for sure don't use it.
I have perfect tertiary skills, and the reason you do not run out of cap is because you fly on sissi and ask in local for the exact type of gang fights you want at the range you want.
Instead of being on TQ where things are not aranged to be just as you want them to be.
Originally by: NightmareX
2. It's still the fact, when the Blaster megas and some Domis warps right in on you, then i'm sure you omguber awesome 300% more range wont help no matter what you say.
So what if they warpin at the perfect range against the abaddon the megas only do 9.66 more DPS lol.....but the ABADDONS have 40,000 more EHP and better resists, and thats without getting a bit of distance or needing to approach every target like the megas would need to.
Get a clue.
Originally by: NightmareX
I got spanked by my own alliance mate?, hah, nah i don't think so. He didn't know that i had a RL and that i had been doing some inty ops the last days when i saw that i had time. And he said i don't read the alliance forum, but in fact i'm on there and check the forum every day.
He did not care if you have a RL he thinks you are a tool just like the rest of us do. And he clearly pointed out that your own alliance uses RAIL MEGAS for RR BS gangs cos blasters suck at it...
You did not know how to fit TQ megas before this thread.
Your exaple of a pvp corp uses rail megas and amarr BS the most.
Your own alliance members think you are a total fool with no clue and they also use RAIL MEGAS.
Just how owned do you need to be on this topic?.
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
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Posted - 2009.04.05 14:37:00 -
[1456]
Edited by: NightmareX on 05/04/2009 14:43:23
Originally by: Childstar
Edited by: Childstar on 05/04/2009 14:06:06
Originally by: NightmareX
1. I don't care how low your capacitor skills is, but i for sure don't have a problem to MWD a bit with a Medium Cap Booster II. I still have plenty on cap left after i have been MWDing a bit.
Like i have said, i have never had any problems with that. So if you have problems to use a Medium Cap Booster, then for sure don't use it.
I have perfect tertiary skills, and the reason you do not run out of cap is because you fly on sissi and ask in local for the exact type of gang fights you want at the range you want.
Instead of being on TQ where things are not aranged to be just as you want them to be.
Originally by: NightmareX
2. It's still the fact, when the Blaster megas and some Domis warps right in on you, then i'm sure you omguber awesome 300% more range wont help no matter what you say.
So what if they warpin at the perfect range against the abaddon the megas only do 9.66 more DPS lol.....but the ABADDONS have 40,000 more EHP and better resists, and thats without getting a bit of distance or needing to approach every target like the megas would need to.
Get a clue.
Originally by: NightmareX
I got spanked by my own alliance mate?, hah, nah i don't think so. He didn't know that i had a RL and that i had been doing some inty ops the last days when i saw that i had time. And he said i don't read the alliance forum, but in fact i'm on there and check the forum every day.
He did not care if you have a RL he thinks you are a tool just like the rest of us do. And he clearly pointed out that your own alliance uses RAIL MEGAS for RR BS gangs cos blasters suck at it...
You did not know how to fit TQ megas before this thread.
Your exaple of a pvp corp uses rail megas and amarr BS the most.
Your own alliance members think you are a total fool with no clue and they also use RAIL MEGAS.
Just how owned do you need to be on this topic?.
1. LOL, so your saying that my capacitor is much lower on TQ than it is on Sisi?. LOL, your funny.
And like i have said, just this week, i have only been on sisi for maybe around 2-3 hours max.
2. Your pointless 1 vs 1 comparsion between the Abaddon and the Mega is still useless in a RR gang situation. How many times do i have to tell you this?.
3. Yes we use Rail Megas because we do a bit other type of PVP style than others are doing. Oh noes, someone use a bit different PVP style than others, waaah.
4. Yes i did know how to fit a Mega on TQ long way before this topic started. FYI, i started to use the Megathron almost 2 years ago. And i can say for sure that after 1 month after i had used it the first time, i did know already what kind of setup that was the best that time. But just take note, that time was not the time when Omni tanks was so much used. So i had more of an Dual LAR setup that time.
After the tanks moved from the Dual LAR tanks to the Omni tanks, it took me just some few days to figure out the same type of setups i have posted earlier here.
5. I don't care what kind of weapons that is used. The thing is that the Megathron is the most popular BS on 90% of all of the killboards that are here today from EVE.
6. Yes FoE use Rail Megas, wow, really?. Will it be any different that i'm using an Artillery Tempest?. I can still fit 2x Large RR's on my Sniper Tempest to.
Oh wat, how owned do YOU need to be on this topic?. |
Childstar
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Posted - 2009.04.05 15:05:00 -
[1457]
Edited by: Childstar on 05/04/2009 15:06:42
Originally by: NightmareX
1. LOL, so your saying that my capacitor is much lower on TQ than it is on Sisi?. LOL, your funny.
Show me where i said that?.
Originally by: NightmareX
2. Your pointless 1 vs 1 comparsion between the Abaddon and the Mega is still useless in a RR gang situation. How many times do i have to tell you this?.
Its not a 1 v 1 comparison its just a comparison, you just wanna call it a 1 v 1 comparison in the hopes of discrediting the FACTS.
Originally by: NightmareX
4. Yes i did know how to fit a Mega on TQ long way before this topic started. FYI, i started to use the Megathron almost 2 years ago. And i can say for sure that after 1 month after i had used it the first time, i did know already what kind of setup that was the best that time. But just take note, that time was not the time when Omni tanks was so much used. So i had more of an Dual LAR setup that time.
Blah blah blah... nighmarex 0 kills in a mega found on any KB in eve...
Originally by: NightmareX
5. I don't care what kind of weapons that is used. The thing is that the Megathron is the most popular BS on 90% of all of the killboards that are here today from EVE.
OMG a BLASTER BS thread and now you are moving the goal posts to gallente BS..........HOW OWNED?.
MASSIVLY OWNED
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Childstar
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Posted - 2009.04.05 15:20:00 -
[1458]
So other than trying to change the topic to "gallente ships are flown in eve so im right about everying i say about anything ever" do you have anything that is actually on topic to add?.
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.04.05 18:11:00 -
[1459]
Originally by: Childstar
Edited by: Childstar on 05/04/2009 15:06:42
Originally by: NightmareX
1. LOL, so your saying that my capacitor is much lower on TQ than it is on Sisi?. LOL, your funny.
Show me where i said that?.
Originally by: NightmareX
2. Your pointless 1 vs 1 comparsion between the Abaddon and the Mega is still useless in a RR gang situation. How many times do i have to tell you this?.
Its not a 1 v 1 comparison its just a comparison, you just wanna call it a 1 v 1 comparison in the hopes of discrediting the FACTS.
Originally by: NightmareX
4. Yes i did know how to fit a Mega on TQ long way before this topic started. FYI, i started to use the Megathron almost 2 years ago. And i can say for sure that after 1 month after i had used it the first time, i did know already what kind of setup that was the best that time. But just take note, that time was not the time when Omni tanks was so much used. So i had more of an Dual LAR setup that time.
Blah blah blah... nighmarex 0 kills in a mega found on any KB in eve...
Originally by: NightmareX
5. I don't care what kind of weapons that is used. The thing is that the Megathron is the most popular BS on 90% of all of the killboards that are here today from EVE.
OMG a BLASTER BS thread and now you are moving the goal posts to gallente BS..........HOW OWNED?.
MASSIVLY OWNED
1. When you say that ow boohoo, its only on sisi you use the Mega and more boohoo rabble rabble rabble, then why are you saying that?. Because every player knows that the capacitor on a Mega is the same on both TQ and Sisi. Why even tell that it's on sisi then?. I'm still using the MWD as much as i would do on TQ though.
2. What kind of comparsion is that then?. You are clearly comparing the Megathron to the Abaddon, and that's not a comparsion to a 1 vs 1 in stats?. LOL.
3. Because that time, as the same as i did when i was in TunDraGon, i only posted the kills on the killboards to the corps i was in. And not on the public killboards. And as you guess, those killboards are long gone.
4. Yeah oooooooh, it's really the end of the world if i told the Megathron is the most popular ship in RR gangs today even when Rails is used.
Yeah i got massivly owned, welp.
Anyways. When someone here claims that an Abaddon is the best close range BS, the best RR BS, the best mid range BS, i will call that the biggest FOTMism of a ships ever.
The FOTMism here is just way to much over what i call for extreme, aka idiotic.
And because of the FOTMism here then i will thank you for making me to take the decision to not train Amarr because of this FOTM bull****. I thank you again. I will train Caldari as my next race and will never train Amarr.
Anyways, i don't look at EFT when i choose a ship, i look on what the different BS is very good at doing and then choose the best ship for the type of PVP we are doing.
So your pointless 1 vs 1 comparsion between 2 ships is something i don't care about. All i care about is that i'm going to use the best ship for RR gangs and i will also use the ship that is the most popular BS because most peoples are using it so it must be good when so many are using it.
Yeah i go after the stats on what ships is most used and what ships is the most popular for the different types of PVP styles rather than going after some numbers on EFT that only gives you numbers instead of giving the whole picture on how a ships is.
So yeah, enjoy your EFT fantasy world Child. I hope you feel proud of that.
Originally by: Childstar
So other than trying to change the topic to "gallente ships are flown in eve so im right about everying i say about anything ever" do you have anything that is actually on topic to add?.
So do you have anything more things to add than FOTMism of Amarr and a extremely pointless 1 vs 1 comparstion in stats between 2 ships?.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Childstar
|
Posted - 2009.04.05 18:47:00 -
[1460]
Edited by: Childstar on 05/04/2009 18:48:13
Originally by: NightmareX
1. When you say that ow boohoo, its only on sisi you use the Mega and more boohoo rabble, then why are you saying that?.
Because:
1. you do not fit it TQ style you pimp it with HG implants and T2 rigs, you even use navy megas or marauders....
2. You ask in local for ppl to fight instead of trying to find ppl.
3. You even ask for specific numbers ffs...
4. Between fights you reload cap boosters ect, summat that a lot of roaming gangs CANNOT do.
5. The ppl you fight do not fit TQ style either.
Originally by: NightmareX
2. What kind of comparsion is that then?. You are clearly comparing the Megathron to the Abaddon, and that's not a comparsion to a 1 vs 1 in stats?. LOL.
When you compare things you show both their stats and abilities, i was showing the abilities of both when used in RR gangs. The abaddon won by far and you emo raged and tried to turn the post into a 1 v 1 troll to try and discredit it.
You are a pathetic, lying, clueless troll whos own alliance members think is a total idiot and no matter if you post on your electric alt or anybody else you always will be. Oh and i did not see the point of responding to the rest of your pathetic attempt at a self justifying rant..
Now why dont you go away and spew your worthless trolly crap somewhere else.
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
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Posted - 2009.04.05 19:02:00 -
[1461]
Edited by: NightmareX on 05/04/2009 19:05:43
Originally by: Childstar
Edited by: Childstar on 05/04/2009 18:48:13
Originally by: NightmareX
1. When you say that ow boohoo, its only on sisi you use the Mega and more boohoo rabble, then why are you saying that?.
Because:
1. you do not fit it TQ style you pimp it with HG implants and T2 rigs, you even use navy megas or marauders....
2. You ask in local for ppl to fight instead of trying to find ppl.
3. You even ask for specific numbers ffs...
4. Between fights you reload cap boosters ect, summat that a lot of roaming gangs CANNOT do.
5. The ppl you fight do not fit TQ style either.
Originally by: NightmareX
2. What kind of comparsion is that then?. You are clearly comparing the Megathron to the Abaddon, and that's not a comparsion to a 1 vs 1 in stats?. LOL.
When you compare things you show both their stats and abilities, i was showing the abilities of both when used in RR gangs. The abaddon won by far and you emo raged and tried to turn the post into a 1 v 1 troll to try and discredit it.
You are a pathetic, lying, clueless troll whos own alliance members think is a total idiot and no matter if you post on your electric alt or anybody else you always will be. Oh and i did not see the point of responding to the rest of your pathetic attempt at a self justifying rant..
Now why dont you go away and spew your worthless trolly crap somewhere else.
1. So when does HG slave set or Crystal set or t2 trimarks have anything on how i use my MWD on Sisi?.
2. Yes that's when i want a 1 vs 1 fight, any problems with it?.
And then for the rest. How do you know so much about how sisi is in comparsion to TQ?. I know a butt load more about how sisi is than you know.
And i know for sure that many are fighting exactly like they do on TQ, simply because they are trying to find a good setup for their ships so they can use it on TQ. Rather than waste tons of isk to find that out on TQ.
And you know that Cap Boosters are mostly available in most station right?. It's not a problem to dock up on TQ after a fight to get more cap boosters.
So how hard is this for you to understand?.
Then to the last thing.
Yes a tier 3 ship have better stats than a tier 2 ship, omg is that really true?. But does that means the ship is better than the Mega in RR gangs?. No it doesn't.
Anyways, because i have alot of isk, i rather buy a Navy Mega with 3x t1 Trimarks and fit it up with a t2 setup rather than using an Abaddon. Because the Navy Mega is a fuk ton better in DPS and EHP than the Abaddon ever can dream of.
Yeah like i have said, i'm always after the best ship for the different tasks i can do on TQ. And i have the best battleship for RR, EHP and DPS.
So just use your crappy Abaddon. A Navy Mega is cheap anyways. Even when the Navy Mega cost like 2 times more than the Abaddon, but for sure the Navy mega will outperform the Abaddon so much anyways, so it will be worth it anyways.
The only good thing i can say about the Abaddon is the looks of the ship.
Yikes, i said something good about an Amarr ship lol.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Traderboz
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Posted - 2009.04.05 19:18:00 -
[1462]
Quote:
The only good thing i can say about the Abaddon is the looks of the ship.
I guess Amarr are just so terrible, the only thing positive about their ships is the graphics. Boost Amarr!
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.04.05 19:21:00 -
[1463]
Edited by: NightmareX on 05/04/2009 19:25:34
Originally by: Traderboz
Quote:
The only good thing i can say about the Abaddon is the looks of the ship.
I guess Amarr are just so terrible, the only thing positive about their ships is the graphics. Boost Amarr!
Hehe, no no no. Look HERE and you will see why Gallente is up for a boost.
Yes a graphic boost.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Childstar
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Posted - 2009.04.05 19:27:00 -
[1464]
Edited by: Childstar on 05/04/2009 19:30:07
Originally by: NightmareX
1. So when does HG slave set or Crystal set or t2 trimarks have anything on how i use my MWD on Sisi?.
I NEVER SAID THEY EFFECTED YOUR MWD ALTHOUGH I HAVE SAID THEY MAKE ANY DATA YOU GATHER WORTHLESS.
DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND THAT ON TQ YOU CANNOT ALWAYS CHOOSE THE EXACT RANGE YOU FIGHT AT OR THE RANGE HOSTILE REINFORCMENTS LAND AT???, AND THAT MEANS A LOT OF MWD USAGE FOR BLASTER SHIPS.
ALSO THE 295,000+ EHP YOUR LG NAVY MEGA HAS, OR EVEN THE EXTRA EHP A NORMAL MEGA WOULD HAVE USING THOSE RIGS AND IMPLANTS DO YOU THINK WOULD NOT EFFECT THE SHIPS FIGHTING THEM AND THEIR CAP USAGE?????.
ARE YOU REALLY THAT CLUELESS???...DO YOU ACTUALLY GET IT NOW ITS BEEN EXPLAINED????...
Originally by: NightmareX
Anyways, because i have alot of isk, i rather buy a Navy Mega with 3x t1 Trimarks and fit it up with a t2 setup rather than using an Abaddon. Because the Navy Mega is a fuk ton better in DPS and EHP than the Abaddon ever can dream of.
yeah like i have said, i'm always after the best ship for the different tasks i can do on TQ.
YOU HAVE NEVER USED IT ON TQ SOLO OR IN A RR GANG OR NORMAL GANG SO STFU UNTIL YOU DO.
AND CLAIMING YOU DO NOT HAVE THE TIME TO PLAY IS RUBBISH AS YOU HAVE ENOUGH TIME TO TROLL THIS THREAD EVERY DAY FOR HOURS.
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
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Posted - 2009.04.05 19:30:00 -
[1465]
Edited by: NightmareX on 05/04/2009 19:35:02
Originally by: Childstar
Epic wall of whine and rabble rabble rabble
Originally by: Childstar
AND CLAIMING YOU DO NOT HAVE THE TIME TO PLAY IS RUBBISH AS YOU HAVE ENOUGH TIME TO TROLL THIS THREAD EVERY DAY FOR HOURS.
Oh god that one was a good one.
You know that almost everywhere i go, i have access to the internet.
I have a Sony Ericsson XPERIA X1 as well that is perfect for writing from when i'm not home or on other places where i don't have a computer.
Super 3G connection almost everywhere is a nice thing i can tell you.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
PuPPet MasTers
|
Posted - 2009.04.05 19:38:00 -
[1466]
Originally by: NightmareX
Edited by: NightmareX on 05/04/2009 19:37:10
Originally by: Childstar
Epic wall of whine and rabble rabble rabble
Originally by: Childstar
AND CLAIMING YOU DO NOT HAVE THE TIME TO PLAY IS RUBBISH AS YOU HAVE ENOUGH TIME TO TROLL THIS THREAD EVERY DAY FOR HOURS.
Oh god that one was a good one.
You know that almost everywhere i go, i have access to the internet.
I have a Sony Ericsson XPERIA X1 as well that is perfect for writing from when i'm not home or on other places where i don't have a computer available.
Super 3G connection almost everywhere is a nice thing i can tell you.
I prefer the iphone.
-Liang
--
Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
www.kwikdeath.org |
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.04.05 19:41:00 -
[1467]
Edited by: NightmareX on 05/04/2009 19:44:34
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: NightmareX
Edited by: NightmareX on 05/04/2009 19:37:10
Originally by: Childstar
Epic wall of whine and rabble rabble rabble
Originally by: Childstar
AND CLAIMING YOU DO NOT HAVE THE TIME TO PLAY IS RUBBISH AS YOU HAVE ENOUGH TIME TO TROLL THIS THREAD EVERY DAY FOR HOURS.
Oh god that one was a good one.
You know that almost everywhere i go, i have access to the internet.
I have a Sony Ericsson XPERIA X1 as well that is perfect for writing from when i'm not home or on other places where i don't have a computer available.
Super 3G connection almost everywhere is a nice thing i can tell you.
I prefer the iphone.
-Liang
I have the iPod Touch to.
But the iPod Touch can only connect to Wi-Fi connections though. So if i'm gonna use it, then i have to be places where there is Wi-Fi connections.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Childstar
|
Posted - 2009.04.05 19:45:00 -
[1468]
Originally by: NightmareX
You know that almost everywhere i go, i have access to the internet.
WOW 7 days a week 24 hours a day unable to play eve....yet constantly trolling......
I think we have heard enough lies fron you and your alts on this thread already.
Originally by: NightmareX
Answer me why i should use an Abaddon over a Navy Mega i have when it's about DPS and EHP?.
When you actually use the navy mega on TQ i will answer you.
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.04.05 19:54:00 -
[1469]
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: NightmareX
You know that almost everywhere i go, i have access to the internet.
WOW 7 days a week 24 hours a day unable to play eve....yet constantly trolling......
I think we have heard enough lies fron you and your alts on this thread already.
Originally by: NightmareX
Answer me why i should use an Abaddon over a Navy Mega i have when it's about DPS and EHP?.
When you actually use the navy mega on TQ i will answer you.
Moar moaaaaaaaar whining please. This is funny.
Yes i'm going to start using my Navy Mega when i have the time to get my sec status back up to -1.9. And when that will happen i have no answers for.
Or maybe you can tell me why i should use an Abaddon over a Navy Mega right now, because if you really convince me to go to an Abaddon over a Navy Mega, then i don't have to wait, i can just start training for the Abaddon right now.
Isn't that a good idea?.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Childstar
|
Posted - 2009.04.05 19:57:00 -
[1470]
Edited by: Childstar on 05/04/2009 20:03:04
Originally by: NightmareX
Yes i'm going to start using my Navy Mega when i have the time to get my sec status back up to -1.9. And when that will happen i have no answers for.
Or maybe you can tell me why i should use an Abaddon over a Navy Mega right now, because if you really convince me to go to an Abaddon over a Navy Mega, then i don't have to wait, i can just start training for the Abaddon right now.
Isn't that a good idea?.
Stop lying about being to busy, grow a pair and get in your navy mega im looking forwards to seeing either a gang with you in it ganking solo ships and easy kills, or your loss mail....
What is the exact gang fit you "say" you are going to use on TQ?.
I suppose you have no choice but to faction fit it cos of the cpu problems...
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.04.05 20:01:00 -
[1471]
Edited by: NightmareX on 05/04/2009 20:04:41
Originally by: Childstar
Edited by: Childstar on 05/04/2009 19:57:33
Originally by: NightmareX
Yes i'm going to start using my Navy Mega when i have the time to get my sec status back up to -1.9. And when that will happen i have no answers for.
Or maybe you can tell me why i should use an Abaddon over a Navy Mega right now, because if you really convince me to go to an Abaddon over a Navy Mega, then i don't have to wait, i can just start training for the Abaddon right now.
Isn't that a good idea?.
Stop lying about being to busy, grow a pair and get in your navy mega im looking forwards to seeing either a gang with you in it ganking solo ships and easy kills, or your loss mail....
What is the exact fit btw?.
I'm very busy in RL atm. I don't have a job though, but i have other 'VERY' important things to take care of atm.
My setup on my Navy mega is posted several times on this forum, so you should find it.
But meh. Just to to my link under my signature and then go to my web page as i have linked to in that post and then go to the Setup page and then look under Megathron Navy Issue setups where i have written (My Current Setup). And just ignore the implants i have fitted there. Because i don't have those implants there on TQ now. Just look at what setup i have on the ship.
The implants there is only the implants i would use if i have had the isk for it.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Trader20
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Posted - 2009.04.05 20:16:00 -
[1472]
Nightmarex and Childstar, why don't you both go on sisi and have an arranged 1v1 fight and solve this problem?
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.04.05 20:19:00 -
[1473]
Originally by: Trader20
Nightmarex and Childstar, why don't you both go on sisi and have an arranged 1v1 fight and solve this problem?
Don't think he like sisi.
So i don't think he will go there. But i'm all up for it if he want.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Childstar
|
Posted - 2009.04.05 20:21:00 -
[1474]
Originally by: NightmareX
Edited by: NightmareX on 05/04/2009 20:08:47
Originally by: Childstar
Edited by: Childstar on 05/04/2009 19:57:33
Originally by: NightmareX
Yes i'm going to start using my Navy Mega when i have the time to get my sec status back up to -1.9. And when that will happen i have no answers for.
Or maybe you can tell me why i should use an Abaddon over a Navy Mega right now, because if you really convince me to go to an Abaddon over a Navy Mega, then i don't have to wait, i can just start training for the Abaddon right now.
Isn't that a good idea?.
Stop lying about being to busy, grow a pair and get in your navy mega im looking forwards to seeing either a gang with you in it ganking solo ships and easy kills, or your loss mail....
What is the exact fit btw?.
I'm very busy in RL atm. I don't have a job though, but i have other 'VERY' important things to take care of atm.
My setup on my Navy mega is posted several times on this forum, so you should find it.
But meh. Just to to my link under my signature and then go to my web page as i have linked to in that post and then go to the Setup page and then look under Megathron Navy Issue setups where i have written (My Current Setup). And just ignore the implants and stats i have fitted there atm. Because i don't have those implants there on TQ now. Just look at what setup i have on the ship.
The implants there is only the implants i would use if i have had the isk for it. It have LG Slave set on though and some other damage implants and a ROF implant etc.
The LG Slave set is implants i will buy when i'm ready to use the Navy Mega anyways.
Still with the med cap injector....expensive fail but still fail.
I see why you do not fly it on TQ now...
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Childstar
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Posted - 2009.04.05 20:23:00 -
[1475]
Edited by: Childstar on 05/04/2009 20:23:23
Originally by: Trader20
Nightmarex and Childstar, why don't you both go on sisi and have an arranged 1v1 fight and solve this problem?
1 v 1 on sissi is for ppl without the balls to fly on TQ, so i suppose nightnare would be up for it but i only use sissi for valid TQ fit testing.
EDIT for lulz after reading nightmares reply...
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
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Posted - 2009.04.05 20:34:00 -
[1476]
Originally by: Childstar
Still with the med cap injector....expensive fail but still fail.
I see why you do not fly it on TQ now...
I would fly it all the time on TQ if i could do it now.
Well even with the Medium Cap Booster, i'm doing great with both MWDing and RRing. I have never had cap problems even with both running.
So that is in fact not a problem at all.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Childstar
|
Posted - 2009.04.05 20:45:00 -
[1477]
Originally by: NightmareX
Originally by: Childstar
Still with the med cap injector....expensive fail but still fail.
I see why you do not fly it on TQ now...
I would fly it all the time on TQ if i could do it now.
Well even with the Medium Cap Booster, i'm doing great with both MWDing and RRing. I have never had cap problems even with both running.
So that is in fact not a problem at all.
You have always flown it in a controled environment before....
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.04.05 20:49:00 -
[1478]
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: NightmareX
Originally by: Childstar
Still with the med cap injector....expensive fail but still fail.
I see why you do not fly it on TQ now...
I would fly it all the time on TQ if i could do it now.
Well even with the Medium Cap Booster, i'm doing great with both MWDing and RRing. I have never had cap problems even with both running.
So that is in fact not a problem at all.
You have always flown it in a controled environment before....
Yes only when i have been testing the ship against specific ships.
But anyways, read my reply before you replied here now.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Childstar
|
Posted - 2009.04.05 20:54:00 -
[1479]
Originally by: NightmareX
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: NightmareX
Originally by: Childstar
Still with the med cap injector....expensive fail but still fail.
I see why you do not fly it on TQ now...
I would fly it all the time on TQ if i could do it now.
Well even with the Medium Cap Booster, i'm doing great with both MWDing and RRing. I have never had cap problems even with both running.
So that is in fact not a problem at all.
You have always flown it in a controled environment before....
Yes only when i have been testing the ship against specific ships.
But anyways, read my reply before you replied here now.
I read and responded, med cap injector on a RR BLASTER BS = FAIL.
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.04.05 20:57:00 -
[1480]
Edited by: NightmareX on 05/04/2009 20:59:33
Originally by: Childstar
I read and responded, med cap injector on a RR BLASTER BS = FAIL.
You clearly haven't tried a Megathron with Neutrons i see.
Yes on a ship like Dominix with multiple RR's, yes, then a Heavy Cap Booster is needed. But not with only 1x RR and a passive omni tank.
If you want to see something that is REALLY fail, then try to fit one Medium Cap Booster II on your Abaddon lol.
And then after that, try to fit it to a Neutron Mega and then tell me how much difference it is from the Abaddon.
The difference is HUUUUUUUUUUGGGGEEE.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
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Childstar
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Posted - 2009.04.05 21:04:00 -
[1481]
Originally by: NightmareX
Edited by: NightmareX on 05/04/2009 20:58:17
Originally by: Childstar
I read and responded, med cap injector on a RR BLASTER BS = FAIL.
You clearly haven't tried a Megathron with Neutrons i see.
If you want to see something that is REALLY fail, then try to fit one Medium Cap Booster II on your Abaddon lol.
I have flown nuetron megas on TQ pal thats how i know they are fail now, and thats more than you have ever done.
And why would i do something so stupid as to fit a med cap injector on a abaddon when it can easily fit a large????...
Have you noticed that all your scenarios need the abbadon to be fitted totally stupidly and the mega to be using faction or in this case a faction BS and fit.....
The real fail in this thread is YOU..
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.04.05 21:17:00 -
[1482]
Edited by: NightmareX on 05/04/2009 21:25:05
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: NightmareX
Edited by: NightmareX on 05/04/2009 20:58:17
Originally by: Childstar
I read and responded, med cap injector on a RR BLASTER BS = FAIL.
You clearly haven't tried a Megathron with Neutrons i see.
If you want to see something that is REALLY fail, then try to fit one Medium Cap Booster II on your Abaddon lol.
I have flown nuetron megas on TQ pal thats how i know they are fail now, and thats more than you have ever done.
And why would i do something so stupid as to fit a med cap injector on a abaddon when it can easily fit a large????...
Have you noticed that all your scenarios need the abbadon to be fitted totally stupidly and the mega to be using faction or in this case a faction BS and fit.....
The real fail in this thread is YOU..
Oh the tears is so yum yum.
No, i'm gonna tell you one thing, the only reason i told to try and fit a Medium Cap Booster to an Abaddon is to show how much cap the Abaddon om nom nom nom nom nom your cap within 43 secs.
Whatever you say, on an Omni tanked Neutron Mega with one RR does not need a Heavy Capacitor Booster. It have never needed it.
And i wonder what kind of fail setup you have had on your Neutron fitted Mega when you are using a Heavy Capacitor Booster instead of a medium one LOLOLOLOL.
You can't even fit one Heavy Cap Booster II on your Neutron Mega without using one or two powergrid rigs. Or without using one powergrid implant and one powergrid rig. And fitting powergrid rigs on a Neutron fitted passive omni tanked Mega is MEGAFAIL anyways.
And the Megathron doesn't even have the CPU to fit one either.
And when you can't even spell Neutron right, then i think that you don't know much about Neutrons.
If you have one or two LAR's on your Mega with Ions, then yes, you will need a Heavy Capacitor Booster fitted so you can have enough cap for the reps.
And no, i don't care about your dumb 1 vs 1 comparsion between 2 ships. I'm gonna use my Navy Mega any days before i use a crappy Abaddon as long you can't convince me to use an Abaddon over the Navy Mega, as i think you can't, because you don't know what to say to convince me.
Yes i can say the Abaddon is crap compared to the Navy Mega when you can say the Megathron that is tier 2 is crap compared to an Abaddon that is a tier 3 ship.
I'm after all after the best battleship for when it's about DPS and EHP.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Traderboz
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Posted - 2009.04.05 21:39:00 -
[1483]
My view on it is that if you can't fit Neutrons + RR + Heavy Cap booster, the best solution isn't to downsize your booster to a medium, because that's simply not going to be able to keep up with guns+mwd+RR. IMO you really should consider a second booster or upgrading to a large cap booster, even if that means possibly downsizing your guns.
Of course, that doesn't do good things for the DPS argument, lol, but I'm just saying. I really, really don't think a medium cap booster is sufficient to power neutrons+mwd+RR for any practical/useful length of time.
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Trader20
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Posted - 2009.04.05 21:43:00 -
[1484]
Originally by: Childstar
Edited by: Childstar on 05/04/2009 20:23:23
Originally by: Trader20
Nightmarex and Childstar, why don't you both go on sisi and have an arranged 1v1 fight and solve this problem?
1 v 1 on sissi is for ppl without the balls to fly on TQ, so i suppose nightnare would be up for it but i only use sissi for valid TQ fit testing.
EDIT for lulz after reading nightmares reply...
Well I got a feeling ppl will find out about ur little 1v1 on tq and u might have a couple carriers drop in on u.
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.04.05 21:51:00 -
[1485]
Originally by: Traderboz
My view on it is that if you can't fit Neutrons + RR + Heavy Cap booster, the best solution isn't to downsize your booster to a medium, because that's simply not going to be able to keep up with guns+mwd+RR. IMO you really should consider a second booster or upgrading to a large cap booster, even if that means possibly downsizing your guns.
Of course, that doesn't do good things for the DPS argument, lol, but I'm just saying. I really, really don't think a medium cap booster is sufficient to power neutrons+mwd+RR for any practical/useful length of time.
It's not good if your running the MWD and RR all the time, but if you use the MWD ONLY when you need to use it and RR when it's needed, it's way enough for me for a long time with a Medium Capacitor Booster.
Like i have said, i have never had any problems with the Medium Cap Booster on the Mega.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Childstar
|
Posted - 2009.04.05 21:53:00 -
[1486]
Edited by: Childstar on 05/04/2009 21:54:46
Originally by: Traderboz
My view on it is that if you can't fit Neutrons + RR + Heavy Cap booster, the best solution isn't to downsize your booster to a medium, because that's simply not going to be able to keep up with guns+mwd+RR. IMO you really should consider a second booster or upgrading to a large cap booster, even if that means possibly downsizing your guns.
Of course, that doesn't do good things for the DPS argument, lol, but I'm just saying. I really, really don't think a medium cap booster is sufficient to power neutrons+mwd+RR for any practical/useful length of time.
Its not enough bud....., especially if you consider being low on cap from the start from a warpin...and nightmare seems to always be able to warp in at the perfect range for blasters in his scenarios...
So initially low cap from warping + The med booster runs at 12ish seconds per cycle with a 10 second reload so 22ish seconds per 800 cap.
Instead of 800 cap every 12ish seconds for 5 cycles and then a reload cycle that you get with a T2 injector.
Lets not talk about nuets bud (even though they are regularlky fitted on gang ships)....., after all he has gone from not being able to fit a mega for TQ properly, to using faction gear and still getting owned...and now he says he needs to use a fation mega......is we keep going he will start claiming to is gonna fly on TQ in fully pimped fed navy mega gangs....
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Childstar
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Posted - 2009.04.05 22:06:00 -
[1487]
Edited by: Childstar on 05/04/2009 22:12:16
Originally by: NightmareX
If you go back and read what i have said, i said that i would buy a Navy Mega with 3x t1 Trimarks and T2 fitting ANY days before i buy an Abaddon if it's about having the most DPS and EHP. I didn't say that i would buy a Navy Mega to 1.1 bill isk before i would buy a T2 fitted Abaddon.
What ever, the T2 fitted T1 rigged navy mega should be interesting to fit though...
With that extra low slot cpu is gonna be a big issue i think...
Originally by: NightmareX
Yes when you are using a ship that have 25% better resists than the Mega have, then i can for sure use a Navy Mega that have 25% more HP than the normal Mega to comnpare against the Abaddon.
Im using a ship that is easily and cheaply (compared to the navy mega) gained and fitted for pvp.
If you think the megas bonuses suck or it has such bad fitting issues compared to the abaddon that you need to buy a faction mega to compensate then you have learned summat else about how bad blaster BS are now....
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.04.05 22:07:00 -
[1488]
Edited by: NightmareX on 05/04/2009 22:10:50
Originally by: Childstar
Edited by: Childstar on 05/04/2009 21:54:46
Originally by: Traderboz
My view on it is that if you can't fit Neutrons + RR + Heavy Cap booster, the best solution isn't to downsize your booster to a medium, because that's simply not going to be able to keep up with guns+mwd+RR. IMO you really should consider a second booster or upgrading to a large cap booster, even if that means possibly downsizing your guns.
Of course, that doesn't do good things for the DPS argument, lol, but I'm just saying. I really, really don't think a medium cap booster is sufficient to power neutrons+mwd+RR for any practical/useful length of time.
Its not enough bud....., especially if you consider being low on cap from the start from a warpin...and nightmare seems to always be able to warp in at the perfect range for blasters in his scenarios...
So initially low cap from warping + The med booster runs at 12ish seconds per cycle with a 10 second reload so 22ish seconds per 800 cap.
Instead of 800 cap every 12ish seconds for 5 cycles and then a reload cycle that you get with a T2 injector.
Lets not talk about nuets bud (even though they are regularlky fitted on gang ships)....., after all he has gone from not being able to fit a mega for TQ properly, to using faction gear and still getting owned...and now he says he needs to use a fation mega......is we keep going he will start claiming to is gonna fly on TQ in fully pimped fed navy mega gangs....
What?, your saying that your low on cap after a warp?. LOL it's not like your going to do a 300 AU warp though.
I don't know how low your capacitor skills is, but my skills is definly good enough to be able to use a Medium Capacitor Booster on a Neutron fitted Mega for a goooooood time.
So when i don't have a problem with it, then i guess someone must sucks at something that have with capacitor to do.
Actually after what EFT says, then the Abaddon's cap lasts 3 secs longer with a Heavy Capacitor Booster II than the Megathron's cap does with a Medium Capacitor Booster II fitted. LOL, aint that funny?. And not only that, but the Abaddon have like 800 more capacitor than the Mega to.
So by that i can say that an RR Neutron Mega lasts long enough with a Medium Capacitor Booster II.
Yes the Neutralizers are the ONLY big enemy to a Neutron fitted Mega.
And also, i like the rest of your epic crying about different things that you fail much more at.
You didn't even know that a RR fitted Neutron Mega couldn't fit a Heavy Capacitor Booster II on the ship with Neutrons.
Heh, you failed the most here noob.
Originally by: Childstar
Im using a ship that is easily and cheaply (compared to the navy mega) gained and fitted for pvp.
If you haven't got the memo yet, i'm going after the best ship when it's about DPS and EHP. ISK is not a problem for me. So when i want the best that way. Then i'm going for the Navy Mega.
Or maybe you should try to convince me to not use the Navy Mega and train for an Abaddon instead, if you mean the Abaddon is so uber awesome.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Childstar
|
Posted - 2009.04.05 22:20:00 -
[1489]
Edited by: Childstar on 05/04/2009 22:23:14
Edited by: Childstar on 05/04/2009 22:20:45
Originally by: NightmareX
What?, your saying that your low on cap after a warp?. LOL it's not like your going to do a 300 AU warp though.
I don't know how low your capacitor skills is, but my skills is definly good enough to be able to use a Medium Capacitor Booster on a Neutron fitted Mega for a goooooood time.
I have perfect skills in all the tertiary systems for flying ships, and less cap is less cap.
Originally by: NightmareX
Actually after what EFT says, then the Abaddon's cap lasts 3 secs longer with a Heavy Capacitor Booster II than the Megathron's cap does with a Medium Capacitor Booster II fitted. LOL, aint that funny?. And not only that, but the Abaddon have like 800 more capacitor than the Mega to.
No the funny thing is that with a available range of 0-15km then out to 45km with scorch that you are so stupid to think the abaddon will need to run its MWD even close to as much as the megas........
Originally by: NightmareX
You didn't even know that a RR fitted Neutron Mega couldn't fit a Heavy Capacitor Booster II on the ship with Neutrons.
ERM excuse me but IM the one saying blaster BS suck (along with your alliance mates) and yes i already knew it could not fit a large cap injector..that is one of the problems ffs..
Originally by: NightmareX
If you haven't got the memo yet, i'm going after the best ship when it's about DPS and EHP. ISK is not a problem for me. So when i want the best that way. Then i'm going for the Navy Mega.
Fine lets see your T2 only T1 rigged NAVY MEGA fit then.....
EDIT: This is gonna be gooooooooooooooood...how many times have i told you to check things before you post...
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Childstar
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Posted - 2009.04.05 22:41:00 -
[1490]
Edited by: Childstar on 05/04/2009 22:42:10
Limiting it to T2 mods and T1 rigs again causes major issues even on the navy mega...
So far i have got it with:
7 t2 nuetrons
1 solace RR
1 t2 mwd
1 MED cap injector
1 fleeting web
1 faint point
3 t2 mag stabs
1 t2 dcu
2 1600 rolled plates
2 t2 adaptive nano plating
That pushes the cpu usage to 682.25/687.5 so its does not have even enough to fit a t2 point if it uses 3 mag stabs, and even if it drops a mag stab it still cannot fit a T2 eanm unless it uses faction or a implant.
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.04.05 23:10:00 -
[1491]
Originally by: Childstar
Edited by: Childstar on 05/04/2009 22:26:49
Originally by: NightmareX
What?, your saying that your low on cap after a warp?. LOL it's not like your going to do a 300 AU warp though.
I don't know how low your capacitor skills is, but my skills is definly good enough to be able to use a Medium Capacitor Booster on a Neutron fitted Mega for a goooooood time.
I have perfect skills in all the tertiary systems for flying ships, and less cap is less cap.
Originally by: NightmareX
Actually after what EFT says, then the Abaddon's cap lasts 3 secs longer with a Heavy Cap Booster II than the Mega's cap does with a Medium Cap Booster II fitted. LOL, aint that funny?. And not only that, but the Abaddon have like 800 more capacitor than the Mega to.
No the funny thing is that with a available range of 0-15km then out to 45km with scorch that you are so stupid to think the abaddon will need to run its MWD even close to as much as the megas........
Originally by: NightmareX
You didn't even know that a RR fitted Neutron Mega couldn't fit a Heavy Capacitor Booster II on the ship with Neutrons.
ERM excuse me but IM the one saying blaster BS suck (along with your alliance mates) and yes i already knew it could not fit a large cap injector..that is one of the problems ffs..
Originally by: NightmareX
If you haven't got the memo yet, i'm going after the best ship when it's about DPS and EHP. ISK is not a problem for me. So when i want the best that way. Then i'm going for the Navy Mega.
If you go back and read what i have said, i said that i would buy a Navy Mega with 3x t1 Trimarks and T2 fitting ANY days before i buy an Abaddon if it's about having the most DPS and EHP.
Fine lets see your T2 only T1 rigged NAVY MEGA fit then.....
EDIT: This is gonna be gooooooooooooooood...how many times have i told you to check things before you post...
1. If you have perfect skills like i have in Capacitor, then why do you have problems with a Medium Capacitor Booster II on a Mega then when i clearly don't have it and have never had it?.
2. Read the thing i wrote about earlier on how much cap the Abaddon om nom nom nom from your cap within 43 secs only from the 8 guns alone, and then read what you can do with the Mega within those 43 secs and still use a little lesser cap than the Abaddon does.
3. It's not a problem that a Neutron Mega can't fit a Heavy Capacitor Booster. A Neutron fitted Mega have never been able to fit a Heavy Capacitor Booster on a Mega with Neutrons. And the reason it have never been able to do that is because it's not needed. Not for me though. For me the Medium Capacitor Booster is good enough for a loooong time.
Do you even want me to fraps on how much i can MWD and RR and shoot before i'm out of cap?. I'm even gonna show you that i can run everything and then run the Medium Cap Booster and still not go out of cap before i have used all of my cap boosters.
Wanna bet on this?. I can bet 50 mill isk here that i have right here.
4. Actually it's the same here with the Navy Mega as it is with the normal Mega, you have to fit one Amarr Navy EANM (that cost 25 mill isk now) to be able to fit the rest with the t2 modules.
Anyways, if the Abaddon want to do as highest possible DPS to get up to what the Navy Mega does, then you need to use 3x HS II. And by that you can either use 1x t2 EANM and one t2 ANP and one 1600mm Plate and one DC II. With that fit you will have 139k EHP with 80.1% EM, 74.1% Thermal, 70.1% Kinetic and 68.1% explosive resists.
Either you can use 3x HS II, 1x DC II and 1x t2 EANM and 2x 1600mm Plates. With that fit you have almost 150k EHP with 76.1% EM, 68.9% Thermal, 64.1% Kinetic and 61.7% explosive resists. Remember that this fit needs a -3% CPU usage on turrets implant to fit.
The rest of the setup is the normal things we use.
Now to the Navy Mega on the next reply...
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.04.05 23:11:00 -
[1492]
Edited by: NightmareX on 05/04/2009 23:14:04
The Navy Mega is now fitted with this.
High-Slot:
7x Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
1x Large 'Solace' I Remote Bulwark Reconstruction
Med-Slot:
1x 100MN MicroWarpdrive II
1x Warp Disruptor II
1x Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
1x Medium Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
Low-Slot:
1x Damage Control II
1x Amarr Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
2x Adaptive Nano Plating II
2x 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
2x Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Rigs:
3x Trimark Armor Pump I
Drones:
5x Ogre II
With this setup the Navy Mega have 181k EHP with 77.3% EM, 70.5% Thermal and Kinetic and 59.2% Explosive resists.
With this setup, the Navy Mega does 1126 DPS with drones and 2x damage mods while the Abaddon with 3x damage mods does 992 DPS with drones.
Remember that you need the -3% CPU usage on turrets implant here to.
So yes, after all, the Navy Mega is a better ship, and i gladly pays more for a ship that is better.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.04.05 23:12:00 -
[1493]
Originally by: Childstar
Edited by: Childstar on 05/04/2009 22:42:10
Limiting it to T2 mods and T1 rigs again causes major issues even on the navy mega...
So far i have got it with:
7 t2 nuetrons
1 solace RR
1 t2 mwd
1 MED cap injector
1 fleeting web
1 faint point
3 t2 mag stabs
1 t2 dcu
2 1600 rolled plates
2 t2 adaptive nano plating
That pushes the cpu usage to 682.25/687.5 so its does not have even enough to fit a t2 point if it uses 3 mag stabs, and even if it drops a mag stab it still cannot fit a T2 eanm unless it uses faction or a implant.
Use 2 damage mods noob.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
PuPPet MasTers
|
Posted - 2009.04.05 23:41:00 -
[1494]
Sigh, any rr mega fit with only 1 med cap booster is failfit.
--
Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
www.kwikdeath.org |
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
PuPPet MasTers
|
Posted - 2009.04.05 23:46:00 -
[1495]
Nmx you are better off taking an isk/effectiveness approach. Even in that case the rr blastedthron is fail for no other reasom than that you didnt fit rails
--
Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
www.kwikdeath.org |
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
PuPPet MasTers
|
Posted - 2009.04.05 23:52:00 -
[1496]
So since we can say that the bthron is pretty much fail in rr fleets, then this discussion is pretty much as a whole a waste of time. Can we get back to discussing what a bthron isn't gail? Owai---
--
Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
www.kwikdeath.org |
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.04.06 00:34:00 -
[1497]
Edited by: NightmareX on 06/04/2009 00:38:25
Originally by: Childstar
Edited by: Childstar on 06/04/2009 00:13:06
Originally by: NightmareX
EDIT 2: No, your not allowed to use a faction EANM on your Abaddon only because i use one.
STFU fool you are using a faction battleship with faction fittings and implant FFS.
By my all level5 figures the navy mega with:
7x Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
1x Large 'Solace' I Remote Bulwark Reconstruction
1x 100MN MicroWarpdrive II
1x Warp Disruptor II
1x Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
1x Medium Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
1x Damage Control II
1x Amarr Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
2x Adaptive Nano Plating II
1x 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
3x Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Gets 77.3em, 70.5th, 70.5ki, 59.2ex with 141,512 EHP and 1235dps with gaurd t2.
Are you including gang skills or summat?.
And that (unless it my eft thats gimped) is less EHP and much less resistance than my 3 HS abaddon fit.
First i will say that i used the gang skills on both of the ships. So the stats is better on the Navy mega no matter how you twist it. I know your trying hard to prove that your Abaddon is any better lol. BUT STOP FAILING SO MUCH THEN FFS.
Ofc i'm not an idiot and does not include gang bonuses when we are talking about RR gangs here.
You will get the armor bonuses in a gang like that anyways.
So that explanation is poooooooooor and pointless.
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Yea because a navy mega with a med cap booster makes it so much better...
Tell me your fantastic story on why a Medium Capacitor Booster doesn't work on my Navy Mega?.
I really want to hear that story.
I'm wating on to do a massive lol when your going to explain why.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Childstar
|
Posted - 2009.04.06 00:34:00 -
[1498]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Yea because a navy mega with a med cap booster makes it so much better...
It makes it a better target...you should see hit faction 1.1 bil navy RR mega it has a FACTION MED injector along with lots of other faction mods......
He claims he is gonna use it but i think its for waggling at girls and impressing noobs with tbh...
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.04.06 00:37:00 -
[1499]
Edited by: NightmareX on 06/04/2009 00:36:53
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Yea because a navy mega with a med cap booster makes it so much better...
It makes it a better target...you should see hit faction 1.1 bil navy RR mega it has a FACTION MED injector along with lots of other faction mods......
He claims he is gonna use it but i think its for waggling at girls and impressing noobs with tbh...
Yeah my Navy Mega with a pooooooor and crappy Medium Capacitor Booster still pwn your Heavy Capacitor Booster II fail Abaddon anyways.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
PuPPet MasTers
|
Posted - 2009.04.06 00:37:00 -
[1500]
In nmx it's been the standard setup for years - though I admit the new vulnerability to frigs plays a role now and may require a med neut in the last high.
--
Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
www.kwikdeath.org |
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Childstar
|
Posted - 2009.04.06 00:37:00 -
[1501]
Originally by: NightmareX
First i will say that i used the gang skills on both of the ships. So the stats is better on the Navy mega no matter hoe you twist it.
Ofc i'm not an idiot and does not include gang bonuses when we are talking about RR gangs here.
You will get the armor bonuses in a gang like that anyways.
Fine all lvl5 skills for gang bonuses ect gives the NAVY MEGA 152,147 EHP and the abaddon 153,882EHP.
The abad has more ehp and also better resists....
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.04.06 00:40:00 -
[1502]
Edited by: NightmareX on 06/04/2009 00:39:51
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: NightmareX
First i will say that i used the gang skills on both of the ships. So the stats is better on the Navy mega no matter hoe you twist it.
Ofc i'm not an idiot and does not include gang bonuses when we are talking about RR gangs here.
You will get the armor bonuses in a gang like that anyways.
Fine all lvl5 skills for gang bonuses ect gives the NAVY MEGA 152,147 EHP and the abaddon 153,882EHP.
The abad has more ehp and also better resists....
Give me the setups or STFU.
If you use the same setups as i used, then no, the Navy Mega will both have more EHP and do 24% more DPS than the Abaddon.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Childstar
|
Posted - 2009.04.06 00:41:00 -
[1503]
Originally by: NightmareX
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Yea because a navy mega with a med cap booster makes it so much better...
It makes it a better target...you should see hit faction 1.1 bil navy RR mega it has a FACTION MED injector along with lots of other faction mods......
He claims he is gonna use it but i think its for waggling at girls and impressing noobs with tbh...
Yeah my Navy Mega with a pooooooor and crappy Medium Capacitor Booster still pwn your Heavy Capacitor Booster II fail Abaddon anyways.
Oh look its waggling.....and he thinks that a 1.1 bil faction ship beating a t2 fitted standard BS in 1 v 1 is impressive enough to crow about....
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.04.06 00:44:00 -
[1504]
Edited by: NightmareX on 06/04/2009 00:45:28
Originally by: Liang Nuren
In nmx it's been the standard setup for years - though I admit the new vulnerability to frigs plays a role now and may require a med neut in the last high.
Yes, without the Large 'Solace' RR then you can fit one Heavy Capacitor Booster II and one best t1 named Medium Neut.
But in an RR gang, you better be using an RR instead.
Originally by: Childstar
Oh look its waggling.....and he thinks that a 1.1 bil faction ship beating a t2 fitted standard BS in 1 v 1 is impressive enough to crow about....
I'm talking about the t2 fitted with one faction EANM fit you dumbass.
Stop thinking about the 1.1 bill isk setup and concentrate on what i'm talking about.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Childstar
|
Posted - 2009.04.06 00:49:00 -
[1505]
Edited by: Childstar on 06/04/2009 00:52:36
Edited by: Childstar on 06/04/2009 00:51:44
By my all level5 figures the navy mega with:
7x Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
1x Large 'Solace' I Remote Bulwark Reconstruction
1x 100MN MicroWarpdrive II
1x Warp Disruptor II
1x Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
1x Medium Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
1x Damage Control II
1x Amarr Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
2x Adaptive Nano Plating II
1x 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
3x Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Gets 77.3em, 70.5th, 70.5ki, 59.2ex with 152,147 EHP and 1235dps with gaurd t2.
Are you including gang skills or summat?.
And that (unless it my eft thats gimped) is less EHP and much less resistance than my 3 HS abaddon fit (82.7em, 77.5th, 74ki, 72.3ex with 153,822EHP)
Your NAVY MEGA hits my abaddon for 296.75 dps from 0-5km.
My abaddon hits your NAVY MEGA for 258.05 dps from 0-15km.
That is a differance of 38.7 dps at 5km.
So at VERY BEST and if its my EFT that is gimped your NAVY MEGA gets 38.7 more dps at 5km and 3000 more EHP than my abaddon fit....
If its your EFT thats gimped the abaddon gets 1675 more EHP.
And like i said for a crappy med injector fit and 3k more ehp it aint woth jack let alone the cost of a navy mega..
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Childstar
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Posted - 2009.04.06 00:51:00 -
[1506]
Edited by: Childstar on 06/04/2009 00:54:00
Originally by: NightmareX
I'm talking about the t2 fitted with one faction EANM fit you dumbass.
Stop thinking about the 1.1 bill isk setup and concentrate on what i'm talking about.
Maybe you should read what i was talking about and what you replied to dumbass.
Post 1477 was about your other silly pimped navy mega, so if you wanted to troll the convo you should have specified.
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.04.06 00:55:00 -
[1507]
Edited by: NightmareX on 06/04/2009 00:55:14
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: NightmareX
I'm talking about the t2 fitted with one faction EANM fit you dumbass.
Stop thinking about the 1.1 bill isk setup and concentrate on what i'm talking about.
Maybe you should read what i was talking about and what you replied to dumbass.
Post 1477 was about you other silly navy mega, so if you wanted to troll the convo you should have specified.
What did you say in the post 1477?, you was saying: Oh look its waggling.....and he thinks that a 1.1 bil faction ship beating a t2 fitted standard BS in 1 v 1 is impressive enough to crow about...
Yes, you was talking about my setup on my Navy mega that is worth 1.1 bill isk included with the ship.
So that's the reason i said that i was talking about the T2 setup with the one faction EANM and not the 1.1 bill isk Navy mega you are rabbling about there.
Dude, you should really learn to read, because with your reading skills, this is starting to get ridicoulus.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Childstar
|
Posted - 2009.04.06 00:58:00 -
[1508]
Edited by: Childstar on 06/04/2009 01:01:24
Originally by: NightmareX
rant
Read my convo with liang for context in 1477 noob, i was telling her about youR silly pimped navy mega and you came flying in to the convo saying it would pwn without specifying the T2 one.
LTR AND SPECIFY AS I TOLD YOU.
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AmarQuan
|
Posted - 2009.04.06 01:04:00 -
[1509]
night, don't you realize that whatever bonus you give to the mega, can be applied to the abba as well? the abba has a head start, and since every bonus is a multiplier, there is NOTHING you can do to put it behind the mega?
if a*x=b and m*x=n and a>m
than b will always be bigger than n
how much faction stuff do you want to cram on the mega to make it remotely work? 5 bil? 10 bil?
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.04.06 01:05:00 -
[1510]
Originally by: Childstar
Edited by: Childstar on 06/04/2009 01:01:24
Originally by: NightmareX
rant
Read my convo with liang for context in 1477 noob, i was telling her about youR silly pimped navy mega and you came flying in to the convo saying it would pwn without specifying the T2 one.
LTR AND SPECIFY AS I TOLD YOU.
Do i care?, i was talking about the t2 fitted and one Amarr Navy EANM setup anyways, and then your lying about my 1.1 bill isk setup that yeah it's no suprise that the 1.1 bill isk Navy mega would pwn a t2 fitted tier 3 BS.
Then i replied TO YOU and said it was wrong and corrected you, because it was not the 1.1 bill isk Navy mega i was talking about.
Get it now?.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
|
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.04.06 01:06:00 -
[1511]
Originally by: AmarQuan
night, don't you realize that whatever bonus you give to the mega, can be applied to the abba as well? the abba has a head start, and since every bonus is a multiplier, there is NOTHING you can do to put it behind the mega?
if a*x=b and m*x=n and a>m
than b will always be bigger than n
how much faction stuff do you want to cram on the mega to make it remotely work? 5 bil? 10 bil?
It only need one faction thing that cost the OMGUBERMUCH 25 mill isk.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Childstar
|
Posted - 2009.04.06 01:10:00 -
[1512]
Edited by: Childstar on 06/04/2009 01:12:51
Originally by: NightmareX
Abaddon fit...ect
With this setup, you have 149678 EHP. And you have 76.1% EM, 68.9% Thermal, 64.1% Kinetic and 61.7% Explosive resists with all skills on level 5.
And just remember again, the Navy Mega need the Amarr Navy EANM to be able to fit the 3x MFS II setup. But you don't need it because you have enough CPU to fit it with only a -3% CPU usage on turrets implant.
The abaddon with 1 or 2 amarr navy eanm does not need a implant and has 153,882 EHP with 82.7em, 77.5th, 74ki, 72.3ex with 2 eanm and 1 plate.
With 1 amarr navy eanm and 2 plates it has 154,439EHP 77.1em, 70.2th, 65.6ki, 63.3ex.
Both of those fits have higher EHP than your navy mega, but then you knew that and tried to avoid it.....more bias'd fitting crap from you as per usual..
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.04.06 01:12:00 -
[1513]
Edited by: NightmareX on 06/04/2009 01:14:27
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: NightmareX
Abaddon fit...ect
With this setup, you have 149678 EHP. And you have 76.1% EM, 68.9% Thermal, 64.1% Kinetic and 61.7% Explosive resists with all skills on level 5.
And just remember again, the Navy Mega need the Amarr Navy EANM to be able to fit the 3x MFS II setup. But you don't need it because you have enough CPU to fit it with only a -3% CPU usage on turrets implant.
The abaddon with 2 amarr navy eanm does not need a implant and has 153,882 EHP with 82.7em, 77.5th, 74ki, 72.3ex.
With 1 amarr navy eanm it has 154,439EHP 77.1em, 70.2th, 65.6ki, 63.3ex.
Both of those fits have higher EHP than your navy mega, but then you knew that and tried to avoid it.....more bias'd fitting crap from you as per usual..
Do you want to know how much EHP my Navy Mega have with one faction EANM and one faction ANP?. Yes when you are using 2 faction modules then i for sure will use it.
EDIT, with one Amarr Navy EANM and one Dark Blood ANP the Navy Mega have 154926 EHP. HAHAH beaten again.
The only reason i'm using a faction EANM on that setup is only becvause it needs it to be able to fit the 3x damage mods setup.
The Abaddon doesn't need it to be able to fit the 3x damage mods setup.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Childstar
|
Posted - 2009.04.06 01:14:00 -
[1514]
Originally by: NightmareX
Edited by: NightmareX on 06/04/2009 01:12:59
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: NightmareX
Abaddon fit...ect
With this setup, you have 149678 EHP. And you have 76.1% EM, 68.9% Thermal, 64.1% Kinetic and 61.7% Explosive resists with all skills on level 5.
And just remember again, the Navy Mega need the Amarr Navy EANM to be able to fit the 3x MFS II setup. But you don't need it because you have enough CPU to fit it with only a -3% CPU usage on turrets implant.
The abaddon with 2 amarr navy eanm does not need a implant and has 153,882 EHP with 82.7em, 77.5th, 74ki, 72.3ex.
With 1 amarr navy eanm it has 154,439EHP 77.1em, 70.2th, 65.6ki, 63.3ex.
Both of those fits have higher EHP than your navy mega, but then you knew that and tried to avoid it.....more bias'd fitting crap from you as per usual..
Do you want to know how much EHP my Navy Mega have with one faction EANM and one faction ANP?. Yes when you are using 2 faction modules then i for sure will use it.
Using 1....and your still in a navy mega btw...
With 1 amarr navy eanm it has 154,439EHP 77.1em, 70.2th, 65.6ki, 63.3ex.
|
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.04.06 01:18:00 -
[1515]
Edited by: NightmareX on 06/04/2009 01:21:24
Originally by: Childstar
Using 1....and your still in a navy mega btw...
With 1 amarr navy eanm it has 154,439EHP 77.1em, 70.2th, 65.6ki, 63.3ex.
Yes the Navy Mega need the one faction EANM to be able to fit the setup so the one faction EANM i use is something that we don't need to think about. How many times do i have to tell that?.
And because you then trow in one faction module then only because i HAVE to use one faction module to be able to fit my setup, then i will for sure use one extra faction module to.
Anyways with 1x Amarr Navy EANM and one Dark Blood ANP the Navy Mega have 154926 EHP AND still does 24% more DPS than your Abaddon.
EDIT: Lets say that i only use one Amarr Navy EANM and a normal t2 ANP. Then you will have 2300 more EHP than me, but just remember, i still do 24% more DPS than you.
And even when you only use one Amarr Navy EANM, i will still have more resists than you have on your Abaddon and still do more DPS hahaha.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Childstar
|
Posted - 2009.04.06 01:20:00 -
[1516]
Originally by: NightmareX
Edited by: NightmareX on 06/04/2009 01:18:37
Originally by: Childstar
Using 1....and your still in a navy mega btw...
With 1 amarr navy eanm it has 154,439EHP 77.1em, 70.2th, 65.6ki, 63.3ex.
Yes the Navy Mega need the one faction EANM to be able to fit the setup so the one faction EANM i use is something that we don't need to think about. How many times do i have to tell that?.
And because you then trow in one faction module then only because i HAVE to use one faction module to be able to fit my setup, then i will for sure use one extra faction module to.
Anyways with 1x Amarr Navy EANM and one Dark Blood ANP the Navy Mega have 154926 EHP AND still does 24% more DPS than your Abaddon.
So a whole 487 more EHP more than the abaddon and all you need are 2 faction mods and a NAVY MEGA that can only fit a MED injector...
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.04.06 01:25:00 -
[1517]
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: NightmareX
Edited by: NightmareX on 06/04/2009 01:18:37
Originally by: Childstar
Using 1....and your still in a navy mega btw...
With 1 amarr navy eanm it has 154,439EHP 77.1em, 70.2th, 65.6ki, 63.3ex.
Yes the Navy Mega need the one faction EANM to be able to fit the setup so the one faction EANM i use is something that we don't need to think about. How many times do i have to tell that?.
And because you then trow in one faction module then only because i HAVE to use one faction module to be able to fit my setup, then i will for sure use one extra faction module to.
Anyways with 1x Amarr Navy EANM and one Dark Blood ANP the Navy Mega have 154926 EHP AND still does 24% more DPS than your Abaddon.
So a whole 487 more EHP more than the abaddon and all you need are 2 faction mods and a NAVY MEGA that can only fit a MED injector...
Yes the Medium Capacitor Booster is enough for me for a looong time.
Do you really know how much i can MWD around and still shoot you at the same time in 43 secs in comparstion on what you can do within 43 seconds by only shooting?.
or lets say that i land right on top of you. Oi oi, now you have to spend 2400 cap every 43 secs while i only have to spend 955.5 cap every 43 secs. Now who are going run out of cap first?.
I can still manage my cap with a Medium Capacitor Booster II much better than you can manage your cap on your Abaddon with Heavy Capacitor Booster II.
At least i can manage my cap VERY good.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Childstar
|
Posted - 2009.04.06 01:39:00 -
[1518]
Edited by: Childstar on 06/04/2009 01:41:18
Edited by: Childstar on 06/04/2009 01:39:40
Originally by: NightmareX
Or lets say that i land right on top of you. Oi oi, now you have to spend 2400 cap every 43 secs while i only have to spend 955.5 cap every 43 secs. Now who are going run out of cap first here?.
You are because you need to sit close to the primary while the baddons can burn away even without mwding and rep while doing so (at least initially).
After the first ship is down the second target you go for will be way out side 4.5km so you will need to either do a lot less damage due to its range or MWD after it.
And you will need to do this for every single hostile ship.
MWD and lose your cap very quickly or do a lot less dmg than the abaddons cos you are way outside 4.5km from them.
You choose..
Know you know why your alliance uses rails, you would to if you every pvp'd in RR gangs on TQ with them.
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.04.06 01:43:00 -
[1519]
Edited by: NightmareX on 06/04/2009 01:45:29
Originally by: Childstar
Edited by: Childstar on 06/04/2009 01:39:40
Originally by: NightmareX
Or lets say that i land right on top of you. Oi oi, now you have to spend 2400 cap every 43 secs while i only have to spend 955.5 cap every 43 secs. Now who are going run out of cap first here?.
You are because you need to sit close to the primary while the baddons can burn away even without mwding and rep while doing so (at least initially).
First off, again your still terrible at reading what i'm saying, and i mean extremely terrible. Was i talking about a gang now?, no i was talking a comparsion between the Navy Mega and the Abaddon when they shoot at each others on who are using most cap. Or on whos most cap stable.
This was a PURE comparsion between the 2 ships on whos using most cap etc. It was not about how it is in a gang.
If this had been a gang, then most of the other ships in the enemy gang would be webbed and scrambled anyways. So they would go nowhere.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Childstar
|
Posted - 2009.04.06 01:55:00 -
[1520]
Originally by: NightmareX
Originally by: Childstar
Edited by: Childstar on 06/04/2009 01:39:40
Originally by: NightmareX
Or lets say that i land right on top of you. Oi oi, now you have to spend 2400 cap every 43 secs while i only have to spend 955.5 cap every 43 secs. Now who are going run out of cap first here?.
You are because you need to sit close to the primary while the baddons can burn away even without mwding and rep while doing so (at least initially).
First off, again your still terrible at readin what i'm saying. Was i talking about a gang now?, no i was talking a comparsion between the Navy Mega and the Abaddon when they shoot at each others on who are using most cap. or on whos most cap stable.
This was a PURE comparsion between the 2 ships on whos using most cap etc. It was not about how it is in a gang.
As i said earlier all my fits and scenarios applied to gang combat, but you tried to spin them into 1 v 1 matches and discredit them because of that.
You not only failed miserably at doing that but now you have the stupidity to deliberatly ignore the gang scenario and actually say your comparing them while not in a gang...
Im going to bed i suggest you stfu unless you have something to add to this thread that does not involve navy megas or silly faction fits or anything else that is just not used on TQ.
Maybe you could even take a few lessons in actual pvp from your alliance members cos unless you have eft on you ipod or what ever you use you must be at you PC (did you think that nobody would notice that you use EFT a lot in this thread but also claim you are away from you PC im looking forwards to you spinning a new tale to cover that tbh.).
Try logging to TQ in and learning summat.
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.04.06 02:00:00 -
[1521]
Edited by: NightmareX on 06/04/2009 02:00:24
Originally by: Childstar
Rabble rabble rabble
What do you do when you compare the stats on 2 ships?, you can't just start to compare the capacitor stats from both of the gangs then when i want to find out what ship that is the most cap stable between a Navy Mega and an Abaddon.
Or are you to dumb to understand that?. I'll guess so.
So keep whining and rabbling more.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
joodner
|
Posted - 2009.04.06 02:46:00 -
[1522]
Edited by: joodner on 06/04/2009 02:46:55
So, lets get this right.
In the red corner,
Everything is fine; Megablaster is just the **** for PvP
NMX – No TQ PVP Experience, No KB links, Comedy Fittings, Videos as Proof
vs
Blue corner,
Something is wrong, web nerf has drastically affected the viability of Large Blasters
Many MAX (MAX as in NO skills left to train to improve BS Blaster combat) Active PVP’ers with history, KB links and experience from years of fighting
---
Your own links of corps that DID use Blaster BS are no longer using them,
Your Own corp. is telling you your are wrong, but you don’t even show them respect by taking a step back, looking at the information presented at you and be willing to reevaluate you position.
Your experience so far has been from a TEST Server in Staged fights… how does this mean ANYTHING.
Ok, quick question.
Your med cap fit RR gang , how does your gang do when a hostile covert ops, finds you, and hostile fleet jumps in 30-40K away ? e.g. you fell for bait ship(s) have already aggressed.
TQ fights are not staged, YOU DO NOT ALWAYS GET TO CONTROL THE FIGHT. All your arguments are for your gang to be controlling the fight. IT JUST DOES NOT HAPPEN THAT WAY ALL THE TIME.
And .. wtf navy mega now as std RR gang boat… are you really being serious… I mean really ?.
You do realize that your arguing with people that MAKE THERE ISK from day to day PvPing riiight ? that they have more PvP experience than you will most likely ever achieve ?
And yet, you do not even show any form of respect to that invaluable experience. You argue against actualy experiance based on crap you have watched in a video ..I mean WTF, do you really value edited videos to be worth more than actual combat experience..really ?
If you are unable to take a step back and really look at the points in this thread from an unbiased view, ditch your “I am right all of EVE is wrong” stance. Then I strongly suggest that you should stop posting and try and hand the torch over to someone that can conduct their arguments without changing the argument + ways through.
Your posting is not making any strong grounds against the topic at all.
See: 0 Credibility. (fiasco with Electric (BTW Funny how he has nothing to post now that your back …) Zero TQ PvP experience, Comedy Fits, Own Corp undermining you (prod due to embarrassment), Changing the argument when present with the facts you requested etc.
I have 0 Skills I can train to improve BS Blaster ships…None ..Zero..nada.. and guess what I will be flying for Gang PvP in 1 months time…go on..take a guess, and I fly PvP ops everyday.
Saying all that, I am entertained by your posting, it takes a "special" skill to argue with your eyes and mind closed.
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.04.06 03:05:00 -
[1523]
Edited by: NightmareX on 06/04/2009 03:15:24
Originally by: joodner
Lots of rabble rabble rabble from an alt
Everyone in our alliance is allowed to have it's own opinion on how things are.
And how many times have i told that because of our play style then we are not using Blasters much.
No you don't have control of the fight in FFA 1 on sisi either. Like right now, the Abaddon i tried got massivly spanked by 10 frigs, 2x t3 cruisers and a Rook on sisi in FFA 1. And the next mega i warped in there, and the Mega after that to.
Guess what i did, yes i did bring in a new battleship with ECCM after some tries and then they couldn't jam me much and i managed to kill some of them and they started to lose there and the rest warped out. Victory for me there i'll guess.
How is that's not like it is on TQ, if not, then i don't know what you take as most realistic TQ fights.
Yeah, if i want to use the Navy Mega as a RR boat, then what?. I'm using the best DPS and EHP ship that also can fit one RR. I don't care what the Navy Mega cost. All i care about is to have the best close range DPS and EHP ship that can fit one RR.
Uhm, with the isk i have now, i don't need to earn isk by killing someone. I know someone have to kill to be able to get isk, but i don't have to.
I use the facts that are posted on most of the killboards AND what some videos shows.
My posting is not making any strong grounds against the topic at all?. LOL what about all of the whining and extremely poor reading Childstar are doing and are coming with something i have never said in almost every reply?. No that's not a problem at all, naaah
You should tell him to rather READ what i write before he start to do the epic rabble rabble rabble with things that are lies, because he say something that i have never said.
And about the thing with Electric Universe. Do you really want me to tell him to start posting again?.
Anyways, like Childstar, he's going after the ship that is the best in EFT. Then i can say that i'm going after the ship that is even better, but then cost more. But then, the isk is not a stopper for me.
So i choose the best RR gank BS that are in EVE atm. And that ship is called Megathron Navy Issue.
Have a nice day.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
PuPPet MasTers
|
Posted - 2009.04.06 06:15:00 -
[1524]
NMX, regarding the 'impossibility' of fitting 7x Neutron II's with a MWD+Hvy booster....
[Megathron, Historical PVP Plate Gankthron]
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
True Sansha Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Internal Force Field Array I
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
100MN MicroWarpdrive II
Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
Domination Warp Disruptor
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
[empty high slot]
Trimark Armor Pump I
Trimark Armor Pump I
Trimark Armor Pump I
Ogre II x5
Here's a more contemporary one:
[Megathron, PVP Plate Gankthron]
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Internal Force Field Array I
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
100MN MicroWarpdrive II
Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
Faint Warp Disruptor I
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I
Trimark Armor Pump I
Trimark Armor Pump I
Trimark Armor Pump I
Ogre II x5
These both require a 3% hardwiring, but since you fly around with HG slaves everywhere I don't figure that'll be a problem for you. If it bothers you, try replacing a couple of mods with 'cheap faction'. Also, consider replacing the (15M!) IFFA with a T2 and a faction EANM or deadspace ANP.
I'm not a fan of the 2x plate variants of the gankthron though - low resists, high HP. But it was the 'standard' for ages. Blech.
-Liang
--
Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
www.kwikdeath.org |
Traderboz
|
Posted - 2009.04.06 07:14:00 -
[1525]
I think NMX is referring to fitting Neutrons, MWD, a heavy cap booster and a large RR on a Mega.
Since that doesn't all fit, NMX is running the MWD/RR/Neutrons with only a medium cap booster. Whether that's enough cap is up for debate, haha, but I think NMX was saying you can't fit a heavy cap booster in reference to a setup with a RR on it, rather than you can't fit a heavy cap booster with Neutron's in general.
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Liang Nuren
No Salvation
PuPPet MasTers
|
Posted - 2009.04.06 07:36:00 -
[1526]
[Megathron, Neutron RR Mega]
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Coreli C-Type Adaptive Nano Plating
Coreli C-Type Adaptive Nano Plating
Damage Control II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
100MN MicroWarpdrive II
Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
Warp Disruptor II
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L
Large 'Solace' I Remote Bulwark Reconstruction
Trimark Armor Pump I
Trimark Armor Pump I
Trimark Armor Pump I
Bouncer II x5
/shrug
/popcorn
-Liang
--
Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
www.kwikdeath.org |
Chakarr
|
Posted - 2009.04.06 08:46:00 -
[1527]
Originally by: NightmareX
...Trolling...
Originally by: Childstar
...Feeding the Troll...
O M G
|
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.04.06 09:01:00 -
[1528]
Edited by: NightmareX on 06/04/2009 09:03:32
Originally by: Liang Nuren
[Megathron, Neutron RR Mega]
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Coreli C-Type Adaptive Nano Plating
Coreli C-Type Adaptive Nano Plating
Damage Control II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
100MN MicroWarpdrive II
Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
Warp Disruptor II
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L
Large 'Solace' I Remote Bulwark Reconstruction
Trimark Armor Pump I
Trimark Armor Pump I
Trimark Armor Pump I
Bouncer II x5
/shrug
/popcorn
-Liang
Mmmmmm. Yes that's correct Liang. You actually repaired one error for me.
But wait a sec here, what does that actually means for me?.
Yes it means the Megathrons is actually a better choice than the Abaddon any days now when i see that i can use a Heavy Cap Booster on a Mega instead of a Medium one.
At least, thanks for proving my point that the Mega is actually a very good ship in RR gangs now.
The capacitor on the Mega / Navy Mega now lasts for 1 minute and 47 secs, but the Abaddons capacitor only lasts for 1 mins and 22 secs.
But anyways, just because i like to have the highest possible EHP, then i will still choose a Navy Mega over a normal Mega or an Abaddon.
And the setup i would use on the Navy Mega then is this one.
High-Slot:
7x Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
1x Large 'Solace' I Remote Bulwark Reconstruction
Med-Slot:
1x 100MN MicroWarpdrive II
1x Warp Disruptor II
1x Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
1x Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
Low-Slot:
1x Damage Control II
3x Coreli C-Type Adaptive Nano Plating
1x 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
3x Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Rigs:
3x Trimark Armor Pump I
Drones:
5x Ogre II
Yes, that's 18 mill isk for each Coreli C-Type Adaptive Nano Plating x 3 = 54 mill isk.
Yes don't even need a single CPU implant to fit all of this now either.
This setup have 156176 EHP with 78.2% EM, 71.7% Thermal and Kinetic and 60.8% Explosive resists to.
Now, because the EANM that is better than the Amarr Navy EANM stats wise does cost around 200 mill isk i think, then i'm sure the Abaddon wont choose any better EANM than the Amarr Navy one.
And with the 1x Amarr Navy EANM & 3x HS II fitted Abaddon, you have 154439 EHP with 77.1% EM, 70.2% Thermal, 65.6% Kinetic and 63.3% Explosive resists.
The only place here the Abaddon have better resists than the Navy mega is on the Explosive resist. But that's just by some few % anyways.
Remember that the Abaddon doesn't need any CPU implants either to fit the setup with the Amarr Navy EANM.
So by this, i thank you Liang for actually making my Navy Mega much better than i though it could be. Now i have a clearly reason to use the Navy Mega instead of the Abaddon.
Now, can someone try to make a better Abaddon setup with one EANM that cost less than 55 mill isk and with 3x HS II fitted without using ANY implants?.
I really want to see if someone can manage to do that without having to use like 200 mill isk on an EANM to get better EHP on the Abaddon than my Navy Mega have.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Childstar
|
Posted - 2009.04.06 09:06:00 -
[1529]
Edited by: Childstar on 06/04/2009 09:08:28
Originally by: NightmareX
What do you do when you compare the stats on 2 ships?, you can't just start to compare the capacitor stats from both of the gangs then when i want to find out what ship that is the most cap stable between a Navy Mega and an Abaddon.
Or are you to dumb to understand that?. I'll guess so.
You mean you do not know what ship is more cap stable?.......ask yourself why your own alliance RR gang megas fit rails as that is cap related.
|
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.04.06 09:09:00 -
[1530]
Edited by: NightmareX on 06/04/2009 09:10:50
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: NightmareX
What do you do when you compare the stats on 2 ships?, you can't just start to compare the capacitor stats from both of the gangs then when i want to find out what ship that is the most cap stable between a Navy Mega and an Abaddon.
Or are you to dumb to understand that?. I'll guess so.
You mean you do not know what ship is more cap stable?.......ask yourself why youyr own alliance RR gang megas fit rails as that is cap related.
OMG more rabble.
Yes, the Neutron fitted setups on the Megas is way waaaaaaay more cap stable than your Pulse Abaddon ever can dream of. And yeah, i don't have a problem to fit Rails and RR's on the Megas when we are doing the type of PVP we are doing. Because i can still fit 2x Large RR's my self on my Sniper Tempest with 1400mm t2 guns anyways.
Anyways, read my reply before you replied.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
|
|
Childstar
|
Posted - 2009.04.06 09:18:00 -
[1531]
Edited by: Childstar on 06/04/2009 09:19:36
Originally by: NightmareX
No you don't have control of the fight in FFA 1 on sisi either. Like right now, the Abaddon i tried got massivly spanked by 10 frigs, 2x t3 cruisers and a Rook on sisi in FFA 1. And the next mega i warped in there, and the Mega after that to.
Guess what i did, yes i did bring in a new battleship with ECCM after some tries and then they couldn't jam me much and i managed to kill some of them and they started to lose there and the rest warped out. Victory for me there i'll guess.
So you lost 1 abaddon and 2 megas but eventually managed to kill a couple of cruisers or frigs and you consider that a victory... Typical sissi warrior attitude when things cost 100 isk...
Originally by: NightmareX
How is that's not like it is on TQ, if not, then i don't know what you take as most realistic TQ fights.
Im actually gonna bookmark this as its totally classic....
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Childstar
|
Posted - 2009.04.06 09:25:00 -
[1532]
Originally by: NightmareX
Edited by: NightmareX on 06/04/2009 09:10:50
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: NightmareX
What do you do when you compare the stats on 2 ships?, you can't just start to compare the capacitor stats from both of the gangs then when i want to find out what ship that is the most cap stable between a Navy Mega and an Abaddon.
Or are you to dumb to understand that?. I'll guess so.
You mean you do not know what ship is more cap stable?.......ask yourself why youyr own alliance RR gang megas fit rails as that is cap related.
Yes, the Neutron fitted setups on the Megas is way waaaaaaay more cap stable than your Pulse Abaddon ever can dream of. And yeah, i don't have a problem to fit Rails and RR's on the Megas when we are doing the type of PVP we are doing. Because i can still fit 2x Large RR's my self on my Sniper Tempest with 1400mm t2 guns anyways.
The reason why most ppl fit rail megas for RR is because blaster megas they use up way to much cap MWDing around to get into range and do crappy damage while doing so.
If you flew on TQ you would know that.
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.04.06 09:29:00 -
[1533]
Edited by: NightmareX on 06/04/2009 09:31:02
Originally by: Childstar
Edited by: Childstar on 06/04/2009 09:19:36
Originally by: NightmareX
No you don't have control of the fight in FFA 1 on sisi either. Like right now, the Abaddon i tried got massivly spanked by 10 frigs, 2x t3 cruisers and a Rook on sisi in FFA 1. And the next mega i warped in there, and the Mega after that to.
Guess what i did, yes i did bring in a new battleship with ECCM after some tries and then they couldn't jam me much and i managed to kill some of them and they started to lose there and the rest warped out. Victory for me there i'll guess.
So you lost 1 abaddon and 2 megas but eventually managed to kill a couple of cruisers or frigs and you consider that a victory... Typical sissi warrior attitude when things cost 100 isk...
Originally by: NightmareX
How is that's not like it is on TQ, if not, then i don't know what you take as most realistic TQ fights.
Im actually gonna bookmark this as its totally classic....
Are you really this dumb?. Did you actually read what really happened after i changed to an ECCM?. no you didn't. You was to busy to do the emo posting.
I said that i did use an ECCM so they coudn't jam me much, and by that, i managed to kill half of the 12-14 man gang that was in FFA 1. And then the gang started to fall back because they couldn't jam us and kill us before they would die.
So yeah, still a victory for me. Because i didn't lose the Mega i had to the 12-14 man gang this time. And when all of them was gone from FFA 1 i was still alive.
Ok, tell me how TQ PVP is then?. If you really are so smartypants are you think you are.
Its not like i did know what i was going to meet in FFA 1 the first time i warped in. And it's not like that it was a controlled envoronment when i was fighting 14 other players.
So your point is?.
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: NightmareX
Edited by: NightmareX on 06/04/2009 09:10:50
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: NightmareX
What do you do when you compare the stats on 2 ships?, you can't just start to compare the capacitor stats from both of the gangs then when i want to find out what ship that is the most cap stable between a Navy Mega and an Abaddon.
Or are you to dumb to understand that?. I'll guess so.
You mean you do not know what ship is more cap stable?.......ask yourself why youyr own alliance RR gang megas fit rails as that is cap related.
Yes, the Neutron fitted setups on the Megas is way waaaaaaay more cap stable than your Pulse Abaddon ever can dream of. And yeah, i don't have a problem to fit Rails and RR's on the Megas when we are doing the type of PVP we are doing. Because i can still fit 2x Large RR's my self on my Sniper Tempest with 1400mm t2 guns anyways.
The reason why most ppl fit rail megas for RR is because blaster megas they use up way to much cap MWDing around to get into range and do crappy damage while doing so.
If you flew on TQ you would know that.
Ahahahahaha, this is something i also have to bookmark, because this is some funny ****.
Well to bad for you, my Navy Mega or normal Mega now have a Heavy Capacitor Booster II fitted.
So how are i'm going to run out of cap fast now?.
Check out... |
Childstar
|
Posted - 2009.04.06 09:29:00 -
[1534]
Originally by: NightmareX
EDIT: LOL was checking on how long my cap is lasting with the current setup i use on my Navy mega on TQ WITH A DARK BLOOD MEDIUM CAPACITOR BOOSTER. And LOL, my cap is lasting for 1 min and 46 seconds with one Medium Cap Booster, also 24 secs longer than the Abaddonss cap would last with a Heavy Capacitor Booster II.
Now isn't that epicly funny?.
Yes, i mean thinking that the abaddon will need to mwd even close to as much as a blaster BS is so epically funny...
Originally by: NightmareX
with the current setup i use on my Navy mega on TQ.
This part is expecially amusing as you have NEVER used it on TQ...
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.04.06 09:33:00 -
[1535]
Edited by: NightmareX on 06/04/2009 09:35:22
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: NightmareX
EDIT: LOL was checking on how long my cap is lasting with the current setup i use on my Navy mega on TQ WITH A DARK BLOOD MEDIUM CAPACITOR BOOSTER. And LOL, my cap is lasting for 1 min and 46 seconds with one Medium Cap Booster, also 24 secs longer than the Abaddonss cap would last with a Heavy Capacitor Booster II.
Now isn't that epicly funny?.
Yes, i mean thinking that the abaddon will need to mwd even close to as much as a blaster BS is so epically funny...
Originally by: NightmareX
with the current setup i use on my Navy mega on TQ.
This part is expecially amusing as you have NEVER used it on TQ...
Yeah i hear the 2400 cap your Abaddon om nom nom nom from guns only every 43 secs is really better than MWDing a little and and using the RR some few times and shooting with Blasters on a Mega for 43 secs.
Your Abaddon still use more cap by shooting only for 43 secs than my Navy Mega or normal Mega use to do 2 MWD cycles, doing 2x RR cycles and shooting for 43 secs.
Do i care if i have used the setup on TQ or not?, all i care about is that the setup is very good.
Next excuses please.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Childstar
|
Posted - 2009.04.06 09:42:00 -
[1536]
Originally by: NightmareX
Are you really this dumb?. Did you actually read what really happened after i changed to an ECCM?. no you didn't. You was to busy to do the emo posting.
I read it all and your the one who is dumb.
Originally by: NightmareX
I said that i did use an ECCM so they coudn't jam me much, and by that, i managed to kill half of the 12-14 man gang that was in FFA 1. And then the gang started to fall back because they couldn't jam us and kill us before they would die.
You did not say half you said "some".
Originally by: NightmareX
So yeah, still a victory for me. Because i didn't lose the Mega i had to the 12-14 man gang this time. And when all of them was gone from FFA 1 i was still alive.
You lost 3 BS they lost a few cruisers....you lost big time.
Originally by: NightmareX
Ok, tell me how TQ PVP is then?. If you really are so smartypants are you think you are.
On TQ pvp most ppl would not be stupid enough to think they had won anything by losing 3 BS on the trot to a bunch of cruisers and frigs....
Originally by: NightmareX
Its not like i did know what i was going to meet in FFA 1 the first time i warped in.
Yet again a unrealistic attitude brought on by 100isk per module....no scout before warping into a situation gaurenteed to be hostile...
Originally by: NightmareX
And it's not like that it was a controlled envoronment when i was fighting 14 other players.
Thats why you lost...
Originally by: NightmareX
So your point is?.
You made my point well enough and my point is that you are totally clueless.
|
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.04.06 09:52:00 -
[1537]
Originally by: Childstar
WAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHH MUST DO THE BEST EMO POSTING HERE
1. No it's you who are dumb for not understanding the whole point with that. Try better next time.
2. Yeah, half of them are still some.
3 & 4. Ehm , yes, when you manage to kill one t3 cruiser on the last try, then i can for sure say it would be worth the 3x BS losses if this had been on TQ. Dangit, you pwned your self there.
5. It's not about what the modules cost dumbass, it's about what your going to fight. The whole idea is that this could have been on TQ and it would still be the same, i would probably lose 3 BS'es if this had been on TQ to if i had been alone.
But the whole point is that i found out a tactic to use to make that gang lose half of the ships and to bugger off with 4 frig losses 1x cruiser and 1x t3 cruiser loss. If that's not good for 3 BS losses, then i don't know what you take for a victory.
6. And you point is?.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Childstar
|
Posted - 2009.04.06 09:55:00 -
[1538]
Originally by: NightmareX
Originally by: Liang Nuren
[Megathron, Neutron RR Mega]
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Coreli C-Type Adaptive Nano Plating
Coreli C-Type Adaptive Nano Plating
Damage Control II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
100MN MicroWarpdrive II
Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
Warp Disruptor II
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L
Large 'Solace' I Remote Bulwark Reconstruction
Trimark Armor Pump I
Trimark Armor Pump I
Trimark Armor Pump I
Bouncer II x5
/shrug
/popcorn
-Liang
Mmmmmm. Yes that's correct Liang. You actually repaired one error for me.
Still getting shown how to fit your ships are you.....
Originally by: NightmareX
But wait a sec here, what does that actually means for me?.
Yes it means the Megathrons is actually a better choice than the Abaddon any days now when i see that i can use a Heavy Cap Booster on a Mega instead of a Medium one.
At least, thanks for proving my point that the Mega is actually a very good ship in RR gangs now.
It means the mega still sucks cos that fit has 103,319EHP and because it uses blasters it has to burn a lot of cap if it uses faction AM unlike the abaddon that has the range not to need to.
Not only that but it is using NULL. to try and mitigte some range issue.
Could you be more clueless?.
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Childstar
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Posted - 2009.04.06 10:02:00 -
[1539]
Edited by: Childstar on 06/04/2009 10:04:11
Originally by: NightmareX
1. No it's you who are dumb for not understanding the whole point with that. Try better next time.
I did you are now adding to it cos you realise how stupid you are.
Originally by: NightmareX
2. Yeah, half of them are still some.
Yea right you mean you killed one or two (if any at all as you are proly lying about everything AGAIN) but when that was pointed out to be pathetic you now say half, you are a liar.
Originally by: NightmareX
3 & 4. Ehm , yes, when you manage to kill one t3 cruiser on the last try, then i can for sure say it would be worth the 3x BS losses if this had been on TQ. Dangit, you pwned your self there.
And yet you did not bother to mention that in the first post???...more lies and back sliding to stop yourself from looking like the tard you are...
Originally by: NightmareX
5. It's not about what the modules cost dumbass, it's about what your going to fight. The whole idea is that this could have been on TQ and it would still be the same, i would probably lose 3 BS'es if this had been on TQ to if i had been alone.
Its exactly about how much the modules and ships cost as ppl fly differantly when price is taken out of the equasion.
You would know that if you flew on TQ.
Originally by: NightmareX
But the whole point is that i found out a tactic to use to make that gang lose half of the ships and to bugger off with 4 frig losses 1x cruiser and 1x t3 cruiser loss. If that's not good for 3 BS losses, then i don't know what you take for a victory.
You found nothing cos you are a liar.
Originally by: NightmareX
6. And you point is?.
You are a liar and a idiot.
|
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.04.06 10:02:00 -
[1540]
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: NightmareX
Originally by: Liang Nuren
[Megathron, Neutron RR Mega]
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Coreli C-Type Adaptive Nano Plating
Coreli C-Type Adaptive Nano Plating
Damage Control II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
100MN MicroWarpdrive II
Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
Warp Disruptor II
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L
Large 'Solace' I Remote Bulwark Reconstruction
Trimark Armor Pump I
Trimark Armor Pump I
Trimark Armor Pump I
Bouncer II x5
/shrug
/popcorn
-Liang
Mmmmmm. Yes that's correct Liang. You actually repaired one error for me.
Still getting shown how to fit your ships are you.....
Originally by: NightmareX
But wait a sec here, what does that actually means for me?.
Yes it means the Megathrons is actually a better choice than the Abaddon any days now when i see that i can use a Heavy Cap Booster on a Mega instead of a Medium one.
At least, thanks for proving my point that the Mega is actually a very good ship in RR gangs now.
It means the mega still sucks cos that fit has 103,319EHP and because it uses blasters it has to burn a lot of cap if it uses faction AM unlike the abaddon that has the range not to need to.
Not only that but it is using NULL. to try and mitigte some range issue.
Could you be more clueless?.
1. Oh noes, Liang did the work for me to prove that the Mega is much better than the Abaddon. At least when it's about cap stability.
2. Yes it have lower EHP, but it's for sure more cap stable than the Abaddon. The Abaddon will run out of cap long before the Mega runs out.
And just so you know, you can't get your Abaddon to be better than the Navy Mega with the 3x Coreli ANP setup. Not if your using 3x Damage mods.
Wanna prove me wrong?. if yes, your not allowed to use ANY implants on your setup, because the last setyp i used on the Navy mega didn't need any implants either. it was without any implants included in the stats.
Good luck on finding a better Abaddon setup that doesn't cost more than the Navy mega setup cost.
I'll give you the whole evening today to figure that out.
Now don't disapoint me now.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
|
|
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.04.06 10:10:00 -
[1541]
Edited by: NightmareX on 06/04/2009 10:13:20
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: NightmareX
1. No it's you who are dumb for not understanding the whole point with that. Try better next time.
I did you are now adding to it cos you realise how stupid you are.
Originally by: NightmareX
2. Yeah, half of them are still some.
Yea right you mean you killed one or two but when that was pointed out to be pathetic you now say half, you are a liar.
Originally by: NightmareX
3 & 4. Ehm , yes, when you manage to kill one t3 cruiser on the last try, then i can for sure say it would be worth the 3x BS losses if this had been on TQ. Dangit, you pwned your self there.
And yet you did not bother to mention that in the first post???...more lies and back sliding to stop yourself from looking like the tard you are...
Originally by: NightmareX
5. It's not about what the modules cost dumbass, it's about what your going to fight. The whole idea is that this could have been on TQ and it would still be the same, i would probably lose 3 BS'es if this had been on TQ to if i had been alone.
Its exactly about how much the modules and ships cost as ppl fly differantly when price is taken out of the equasion.
You would know that if you flew on TQ.
Originally by: NightmareX
But the whole point is that i found out a tactic to use to make that gang lose half of the ships and to bugger off with 4 frig losses 1x cruiser and 1x t3 cruiser loss. If that's not good for 3 BS losses, then i don't know what you take for a victory.
You found nothing cos you are a liar.
Originally by: NightmareX
6. And you point is?.
You are a liar and a idiot.
1. And your not stupid because?.
2. And your point is?.
3. It's not about what the modules cost on either sisi or TQ, it's about how good they are and how effective they are. Like i have said, isk is not a stopper for me. As long the setup works very good and are very effective then i'm gladly paying for the setup.
4. So what, do i need to explain you every damn details when you can't even read the things i write properly and then you emo whine and lies about something i have never said.
Don't expect me to be detailed when your such terrible in reading what i'm saying. Start to read what we are saying and we might explain things better to you. because atm it's just waste of time to explain you anything, because it's only whines and lies anyways that comes from you.
5. I found a tactic because i was smart and it worked. Now wanna prove me wrong?. Now i think your the liar here.
6. Oh the tears, they are just epicly sweet.
Is that all you can do when you see that i'm right and then you start calling me for things because i proved you wrong?.
Grow up and learn how to read before you do any more posting on this forum again.
You not getting ANYWHERE with the posting you do now. Your just proving to be the player here who are the crybaby with the posting you do now.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Childstar
|
Posted - 2009.04.06 10:19:00 -
[1542]
Originally by: NightmareX
1. Oh noes, Liang did the work for me to prove that the Mega is much better than the Abaddon.
Its not better its still a lot worse than the abaddon.
Originally by: NightmareX
2. Yes it have lower EHP, but it's for sure more cap stable than the Abaddon. The Abaddon will run out of cap long before the Mega runs out.
Now that you are using NULL and do not need to mwd as much you use up all your cap boosters before you cap out, but then so does the abaddon but it can carry a few less charges in its hold.
HOWEVER THE MEGA:
Now does 745 gun dps out to 11km and has 103,319ehp still with a explosive hole.
My abaddon fit has MUCH MUCH higher resists and no explosive hole with 153,822EHP does 802 gun DPS out to 15km then has scorch if it needs it.
The mega still sucks compared to the abaddon.
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Nichola Kreed
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Posted - 2009.04.06 10:30:00 -
[1543]
yeah mega suck compare to abaddon, and it should be. a mega hull is about 50 M cheaper than an abaddon's. some gallent BS does need a boost but that is a hyper, not mega.
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.04.06 10:35:00 -
[1544]
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: NightmareX
1. Oh noes, Liang did the work for me to prove that the Mega is much better than the Abaddon.
Its not better its still a lot worse than the abaddon.
Originally by: NightmareX
2. Yes it have lower EHP, but it's for sure more cap stable than the Abaddon. The Abaddon will run out of cap long before the Mega runs out.
Now that you are using NULL and do not need to mwd as much you use up all your cap boosters before you cap out, but then so does the abaddon but it can carry a few less charges in its hold.
HOWEVER THE MEGA:
Now does 745 gun dps out to 11km and has 103,319ehp still with a explosive hole.
My abaddon fit has MUCH MUCH higher resists and no explosive hole with 153,822EHP does 802 gun DPS out to 15km then has scorch if it needs it.
The mega still sucks compared to the abaddon.
1. The mega is better than the Abaddon in cap stability by miles.
2. No, i'm using faction Antitmatter.
3. Why do you use the gun dps and not the whole DPS with drones?.
4. The Megathron is both way more cap stable than the Abaddon, and the Megathron is doing way more DPS (24%) than the Abaddon does at 4.5 km. So for me it doesn't do so much that the EHP is lower.
5. Like i have said earlier, the explosive resist hole is the last thing i'm worried about. Simply because it's not often you come over ships that does explosive damage anyways. The chance is much much higher to get over EM and Thermal damage. Or Kinetic and Thermal damage. So those are the resists i'm thinking about having a bit high.
6. if you really say the Abaddon is better than the Mega, then yeah, my Navy Mega is better than your Abaddon by miles then.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Childstar
|
Posted - 2009.04.06 10:36:00 -
[1545]
Originally by: NightmareX
3. It's not about what the modules cost on either sisi or TQ
Yes it is as ppl fly differantly when its only 100isk per ship and module....i do not know anybody who would lose 3 BS on the trot warping into a 14 man gang on TQ...
Originally by: NightmareX
Now rather than doing this epic emo posting, then just try and find a better setup on the Abaddon with 3x HS II's that makes it better than the Navy Mega that doesn't cost more than the Navy Mega setup cost.
Why?, nobody uses the navy mega in RR gangs on TQ....yet more unrealistic ships and fittings.....
Lets recap on your attempts so far to make the blaster RR ship look good...
1. First you tried pimping the standard mega (FAILED) the abaddon was still better.
2. Then you tried making me fit the abaddon badly (FAILED) the abaddon was still better..
3. Then you tried a T1 rig T2 only navy mega(FAILED) the abaddon was still better..
4. Then you tried your slightly pimped navy mega fit(FAILED) although it was very close the cost and med injector + range issues from blasters made it suck.
5. Then (after you were shown how) you fitted a normal mega with a heavy injector (FAILED) the abaddon was still better.
NOW:
6. You want to compare a pimped NAVY MEGA to a abaddon?...
What do you think you are going to prove other than you are a self absorbed fool who is unable to deal with the fact that he is wrong about standard blaster megas (you may have forgotted in your ranting but that is what this thread is about) normally used on TQ...
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Childstar
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Posted - 2009.04.06 10:46:00 -
[1546]
Originally by: NightmareX
1. The mega is better than the Abaddon in cap stability by miles.
2. No, i'm using faction Antitmatter.
If you are using faction antimatter then then the mega is not more cap stable in gang combat on TQ
Originally by: NightmareX
3. Why do you use the gun dps and not the whole DPS with drones?.
To show how much null reduces DPS, but with drones and null the mega does 1045dps out to 11km, with the abaddon fit does 982 out to 15km, thats 63 raw dps differance with 4km less optimal much weaker resists and 50,563 lessEHP.
Originally by: NightmareX
4. The Megathron is both way more cap stable than the Abaddon, and the Megathron is doing way more DPS (24%) than the Abaddon does at 4.5 km. So for me it doesn't do so much that the EHP is lower.
At 4.5km you are using antimatter so you will need to MWD so you are not more cap stable, it is not even close to 24% after resists and higher resists on the abaddon + 50,563 more EHP is very significant.
Originally by: NightmareX
5. Like i have said earlier, the explosive resist hole is the last thing i'm worried about. Simply because it's not often you come over ships that does explosive damage anyways.
All missile ships withh be doing it as well as mini ships and the RR phoon is also better than the RR mega....
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.04.06 10:46:00 -
[1547]
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: NightmareX
3. It's not about what the modules cost on either sisi or TQ
Yes it is as ppl fly differantly when its only 100isk per ship and module....i do not know anybody who would lose 3 BS on the trot warping into a 14 man gang on TQ...
Originally by: NightmareX
Now rather than doing this epic emo posting, then just try and find a better setup on the Abaddon with 3x HS II's that makes it better than the Navy Mega that doesn't cost more than the Navy Mega setup cost.
Why?, nobody uses the navy mega in RR gangs on TQ....yet more unrealistic ships and fittings.....
Lets recap on your attempts so far to make the blaster RR ship look good...
1. First you tried pimping the standard mega (FAILED) the abaddon was still better.
2. Then you tried making me fit the abaddon badly (FAILED) the abaddon was still better..
3. Then you tried a T1 rig T2 only navy mega(FAILED) the abaddon was still better..
4. Then you tried your slightly pimped navy mega fit(FAILED) although it was very close the cost and med injector + range issues from blasters made it suck.
5. Then (after you were shown how) you fitted a normal mega with a heavy injector (FAILED) the abaddon was still better.
NOW:
6. You want to compare a pimped NAVY MEGA to a abaddon?...
What do you think you are going to prove other than you are a self absorbed fool who is unable to deal with the fact that he is wrong about standard blaster megas (you may have forgotted in your ranting but that is what this thread is about) normally used on TQ...
1. I wasn't talking about sisi here. God damnit, when are you going to learn to read?. I WAS TALKING ABOUT TQ. Get it now, or do i need to tell you that like 6549684068490 more times before you dumb ass brain gets it?.
2. I know alot of players that use a Navy Mega in RR gangs, simply because it pwns. It's the best DPS, EHP and RR ship you can use atm.
3. And you still don't get it that the mega need the faction EANM to be able to fit the setup. How many times have we told you this now?.
Now i didn't try to fit the Abaddon badly. I was in fact fitting it with the 3x damage mofs setup you used. Oh at least you did say your own setup sucks, HAHAHAH, thanks for that.
Yes the Abaddon was better EHP wise yeah. But the Mega is doing way more DPS than the Abaddon and the Mega is way more cap stable than the Abaddon is.
And if you haven't seen it, but my last setup on the Navy Mega have a heavy Capacitor Booster II. And it have 3x ANP's that is costing the whole 54 mill isk. Yikes, that's a lot. yes that's really a pimped setup dude.
And then the last thing, yes EHP wise the Abaddon is better, but not DPS and cap stability wise. Still, EHP isn't all in PVP dude.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.04.06 10:52:00 -
[1548]
Edited by: NightmareX on 06/04/2009 10:54:42
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: NightmareX
1. The mega is better than the Abaddon in cap stability by miles.
2. No, i'm using faction Antitmatter.
If you are using faction antimatter then then the mega is not more cap stable in gang combat on TQ
Originally by: NightmareX
3. Why do you use the gun dps and not the whole DPS with drones?.
To show how much null reduces DPS, but with drones and null the mega does 1045dps out to 11km, with the abaddon fit does 982 out to 15km, thats 63 raw dps differance with 4km less optimal much weaker resists and 50,563 lessEHP.
Originally by: NightmareX
4. The Megathron is both way more cap stable than the Abaddon, and the Megathron is doing way more DPS (24%) than the Abaddon does at 4.5 km. So for me it doesn't do so much that the EHP is lower.
At 4.5km you are using antimatter so you will need to MWD so you are not more cap stable, it is not even close to 24% after resists and higher resists on the abaddon + 50,563 more EHP is very significant.
Originally by: NightmareX
5. Like i have said earlier, the explosive resist hole is the last thing i'm worried about. Simply because it's not often you come over ships that does explosive damage anyways.
All missile ships withh be doing it as well as mini ships and the RR phoon is also better than the RR mega....
Yes it is. EFT says so, and EFT doesn't lie when it's about how much cap you use with faction Antitmatter L.
With faction Anitmatter L, the t2 Neutrons are using 13.65 cap every 4.3 secs, that is 95.5 cap every 4.3 secs with 7 t2 Neutrons, while the Abaddon use 30 cap per 4.3 secs that is 240 cap every 4.3 secs if the Abaddon have 8 gunsfitted.
After 43 secs, the Abaddon have used 2400 cap only by using the guns, while the Mega have only used 955.5 cap only with the guns there.
So in other words, within those 43 secs, the Megathron can do 2x MWD cycles and do 2x RR cycles and still shoot all the time within the 43 sec and still have lesser cap usage than the Abaddon with 8 guns and faction Multis as crystal have been using within those 43 secs.
Isn't that funny?.
So wanna prove EFT wrong to?.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Childstar
|
Posted - 2009.04.06 10:58:00 -
[1549]
Originally by: NightmareX
2. I know alot of players that use a Navy Mega in RR gangs, simply because it pwns. It's the best DPS, EHP and RR ship you can use atm.
Link to KB of players that use BLASTER RR NAVY MEGA GANGS on TQ or stfu.
Originally by: NightmareX
3. And you still don't get it that the mega need the faction EANM to be able to fit the setup. How many times have we told you this now?.
Iknew it before you did fool as i was the one loling at you first attempts at fitting the mega.
Fitting issues is one of the reasons the mega needs a buff, thanks for pointing it out yet again and making my point.
Originally by: NightmareX
Now i didn't try to fit the Abaddon badly. I was in fact fitting it with the 3x damage mofs setup you used. Oh at least you did say your own setup sucks, HAHAHAH, thanks for that.
My setup was fine it was you who tried using the wrong mods and claiming it needed implants ect...
Originally by: NightmareX
Yes the Abaddon was better EHP wise yeah. But the Mega is doing way more DPS than the Abaddon and the Mega is way more cap stable than the Abaddon is.
It has a little more dps after resists if you are using faction antimatter but then it is not as cap stable as the abaddon, if it uses null it is more cap stable but does less dmg after resists.
Originally by: NightmareX
And if you haven't seen it, but my last setup on the Navy Mega have a heavy Capacitor Booster II. And it have 3x ANP's that is costing the whole 54 mill isk. Yikes, that's a lot. yes that's really a pimped setup dude.
The fact its a navy mega means its already a pimed, adding other faction mods just makes it more pimped.
Originally by: NightmareX
And then the last thing, yes EHP wise the Abaddon is better, but not DPS and cap stability wise. Still, EHP isn't all in PVP dude.
The abaddon has better EHP and damage if you use NULL.
Or it has better EHP and cap if you use faction AM with only slightly less dmg at 5km after resists.
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Childstar
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Posted - 2009.04.06 11:05:00 -
[1550]
Originally by: NightmareX
Yes it is. EFT says so, and EFT doesn't lie when it's about how much cap you use with faction Antitmatter L.
With faction Anitmatter L, the t2 Neutrons are using 13.65 cap every 4.3 secs, that is 95.5 cap every 4.3 secs with 7 t2 Neutrons, while the Abaddon use 30 cap per 4.3 secs that is 240 cap every 4.3 secs if the Abaddon have 8 gunsfitted.
After 43 secs, the Abaddon have used 2400 cap only by using the guns, while the Mega have only used 955.5 cap only with the guns there.
So in other words, within those 43 secs, the Megathron can do 2x MWD cycles and do 2x RR cycles and still shoot all the time within the 43 sec and still have lesser cap usage than the Abaddon with 8 guns and faction Multis as crystal have been using within those 43 secs.
Isn't that funny?.
So wanna prove EFT wrong to?.
Who care about that when for the first 43 seconds of the fight both ships have enough cap to fire RR and in the megas case MWD as well?.
The first 43 seconds in a RR gang vs gang fight is nothing, its the start of the fight. You see how much cap those megas use up burning after each target for the rest of the fight and then start talking about cap stability.
Originally by: NightmareX
The only thing you can TRY to prove, is to prove that you can find a better setup to the Abaddon that makes it better in stats than the Navy Mega is with only using the same amount of isk as the Navy Mega setup does cost.
How much does the navy mega + its fittings actually cost then?.
Lets see if its worth it...
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.04.06 11:10:00 -
[1551]
Edited by: NightmareX on 06/04/2009 11:12:49
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: NightmareX
2. I know alot of players that use a Navy Mega in RR gangs, simply because it pwns. It's the best DPS, EHP and RR ship you can use atm.
Link to KB of players that use BLASTER RR NAVY MEGA GANGS on TQ or stfu.
Originally by: NightmareX
3. And you still don't get it that the mega need the faction EANM to be able to fit the setup. How many times have we told you this now?.
Iknew it before you did fool as i was the one loling at you first attempts at fitting the mega.
Fitting issues is one of the reasons the mega needs a buff, thanks for pointing it out yet again and making my point.
Originally by: NightmareX
Now i didn't try to fit the Abaddon badly. I was in fact fitting it with the 3x damage mofs setup you used. Oh at least you did say your own setup sucks, HAHAHAH, thanks for that.
My setup was fine it was you who tried using the wrong mods and claiming it needed implants ect...
Originally by: NightmareX
Yes the Abaddon was better EHP wise yeah. But the Mega is doing way more DPS than the Abaddon and the Mega is way more cap stable than the Abaddon is.
It has a little more dps after resists if you are using faction antimatter but then it is not as cap stable as the abaddon, if it uses null it is more cap stable but does less dmg after resists.
Originally by: NightmareX
And if you haven't seen it, but my last setup on the Navy Mega have a heavy Capacitor Booster II. And it have 3x ANP's that is costing the whole 54 mill isk. Yikes, that's a lot. yes that's really a pimped setup dude.
The fact its a navy mega means its already a pimed, adding other faction mods just makes it more pimped.
Originally by: NightmareX
And then the last thing, yes EHP wise the Abaddon is better, but not DPS and cap stability wise. Still, EHP isn't all in PVP dude.
The abaddon has better EHP and damage if you use NULL.
Or it has better EHP and cap if you use faction AM with only slightly less dmg at 5km after resists.
1. No i'm not gonna do the work FOR YOU, not with the epic emo posting here from you.
2. Yeah i'm all in for that. BUFF THE MEGA'S CPU BY 15-20 CPU AND WE HAVE A BETTER MEGA.
3. I still used the same setup as you did use when i did compare it to the Mega / Navy Mega. That's why that setup did fail hard against the Navy Mega.
4. It doesn't have more DPS after the resists on the Navy Mega.
5. LOL, i don¿'t care if you call the Navy Mega for pimped or what, the Navy Mega is dirt cheap anyways. And i can fit it with 3 Coreli ANP's and the rest with t2 stuffs and make the Navy Mega waaaaaaaaaaay way better than the Abaddon.
You know, i'm after the best DPS, EHP and RR ship after all.
6. LOL WAT?. Are you telling me that my EHP gets lower if i change my ammo from faction Antimatter L to Null in middle of a fight?. Damn. i didn't know that. Where have you learned that?.
Oh man, this is just epicly fun. Please continue to give me all of this epic fun Child. Your the best when it's about making topics fun to read.
Originally by: Childstar
How much does the navy mega + its fittings actually cost then?.
Lets see if its worth it...
First off all, i don't care what it does cost, all i care about is to have the best DPS, EHP and RR ship in a RR gang.
For me it's worth every isk it cost.
But no, you can figure out what the price is on the Navy Mega with that setup your self, because you can't read what i'm writing anyways. So you better write that down your self and do the calculating.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.04.06 11:49:00 -
[1552]
Edited by: NightmareX on 06/04/2009 11:53:13
And just to add this to.
I just looked at the Navy Mega setup with Null L ammo fitted on the Neutrons.
Still with Null L on the Neutrons, the Navy Mega are doing 1044 DPS. That's still more DPS than the 992 DPS the Abaddon have with faction Multis and 7 guns and one Solace RR. Because the Navy Mega have higher resists to everything than the Abaddon have except for Exposive resist. So yes, the Navy Mega with Neutrons and Null ammo are doing more DPS than the Abaddon.
And not only that, but the Navy Mega with Neutrons and Null L ammo is still more cap stable than the Abaddon with faction Multis.
The Navy Mega's capacitor lasts 1 min and 34 secs with Null L ammo and a Heavy Capacitor Booster II while the Abaddon's capacitor with faction Multis are lasting 1 min and 22 secs with a Heavy Capacitor Booster II in EFT.
FAIL ABADDON IS FAIL.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Nichola Kreed
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Posted - 2009.04.06 11:53:00 -
[1553]
mega is worse than abaddon cuz
1: mega need to use MWD to get in to range! and it use cap!
your dont burn your MWD for ever most fights start with in 30 km, and a mega only need 3 if not 2 cycle to get in to range, and once you get close enough, you dont need MWD any more, cuz enemy fleet is with in RR range of each other thus with in your blaster range.
2: mega has a explosive hole!
seriouly who shoot expolsive damage? only raven if he dont use the more common Em torpedo. RF emp only has 40% explosive damage.
3: mega die alot more than abaddon !
true, but that is not all about EHP, it is about FCs primary megas, and mega is with in every one's (include emermy's megas) range.
4: navy mega can match abaddon but it cost a lot more!
navy mega is very common in empire wars if your cant afford one, you should spend more time to get ISK.
As I said before, because of teir difference mega is and should be worse than abaddon. how ever the teir 3 blaster ship -- hyperion, which supposed to be toe to toe with abaddon, is totally a crap and outclassed by mega in every way. IMO large blasters are fine, but high end blaster boat is totally a crap and need a serious boost. hyperion should have enough PG to fit 8 t2 Neutron dual t2 large repper, MWD and LARGE cap booster AND a 125 m3 drone bay! dont whine blasters whine hyperion!
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.04.06 12:01:00 -
[1554]
Edited by: NightmareX on 06/04/2009 12:05:14
Originally by: Nichola Kreed
mega is worse than abaddon cuz
1: mega need to use MWD to get in to range! and it use cap!
your dont burn your MWD for ever most fights start with in 30 km, and a mega only need 3 if not 2 cycle to get in to range, and once you get close enough, you dont need MWD any more, cuz enemy fleet is with in RR range of each other thus with in your blaster range.
2: mega has a explosive hole!
seriouly who shoot expolsive damage? only raven if he dont use the more common Em torpedo. RF emp only has 40% explosive damage.
3: mega die alot more than abaddon !
true, but that is not all about EHP, it is about FCs primary megas, and mega is with in every one's (include emermy's megas) range.
4: navy mega can match abaddon but it cost a lot more!
navy mega is very common in empire wars if your cant afford one, you should spend more time to get ISK.
As I said before, because of teir difference mega is and should be worse than abaddon. how ever the teir 3 blaster ship -- hyperion, which supposed to be toe to toe with abaddon, is totally a crap and outclassed by mega in every way. IMO large blasters are fine, but high end blaster boat is totally a crap and need a serious boost. hyperion should have enough PG to fit 8 t2 Neutron dual t2 large repper, MWD and LARGE cap booster AND a 125 m3 drone bay! dont whine blasters whine hyperion!
1. If your starting the fight with your RR Blaster Mega / RR Domi gang, you start by warping in right on top of their asses, your not starting the fight at 30 km dude, you warp right in on their asses. And then you do the epic LOLLING after that when there are explosions everywhere because they pop like cruisers.
It's something else if your in a gang with lots of Amarr BS and then warp into 30 km.
But then, it's not like that your going to be able to keep us scrambled or webbed if you warp in at 30 km if both of the gangs are only in BS'es. oh crap, you didn't think about that heh.
2. Like there is so many that do explosive damage nowdays.
3. Do you know why?, because someone have to use a fail fit because they don't have the isk to buy 1 or 2 faction modules to make the mega very good.
4. Navy Mega outperform the Abaddon in mostly everything. And for me, it's worth it. Ofc the 1.1 bill isk Navy mega i have on TQ now is something different. The Navy Mega with a t2 setup and 3x Coreli ANP's is way better than the Abaddon in most ways.
So the isk the setup and ship cost is nothing i care about. I have nough isk anyways. All i care about is that i have the best ship in DPS, EHP and RR combined.
Yes, because Childstar is comparing a tier 3 Abaddon to a tier 2 Mega, then i do the comparsion between the tier 3 Abaddon and the Navy Mega. It's simple.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Chakarr
|
Posted - 2009.04.06 12:10:00 -
[1555]
I hate when you kids are off school dammit, these boards are much easier to read in my lunch break when they are not covered in child spam...
Try following these easy steps:
1) Turn off your PC & step away from the keyboard
2) Go outside & get some air
3) Get a girlfriend/boyfriend (whatever you are into)
If, after that you two still feel the need to obsess about every word the other writes then try this instead:
1) Get a room
2) Get some models of your favorite ships from EVE
3) Get a large tub of lube and go get funky with each other in private...
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Childstar
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Posted - 2009.04.06 12:16:00 -
[1556]
Originally by: NightmareX
1. No i'm not gonna do the work FOR YOU, not with the epic emo posting here from you.
So you were lying about corps of BLASTER RR navy mega gangs on TQ....like nobody already knew that...
Proof or stfu.
Originally by: NightmareX
2. Yeah i'm all in for that. BUFF THE MEGA'S CPU BY 15-20 CPU AND WE HAVE A BETTER MEGA.
Its a start anyway although the ammount of cpu buff should be fully tested.
Originally by: NightmareX
4. It doesn't have more DPS after the resists on the Navy Mega.
5. LOL, i don¿'t care if you call the Navy Mega for pimped or what, the Navy Mega is dirt cheap anyways. And i can fit it with 3 Coreli ANP's and the rest with t2 stuffs and make the Navy Mega waaaaaaaaaaay way better than the Abaddon.
Your new navy mega fit gets 156,176 EHP with 78.2em, 71.7th, 71.7ki, 60.8ex resists.
My abaddon fit has 153,822 EHP with 82.7em, 77.5th, 74ki, 72.3ex resists.
So 2354 more EHP using the NAVY MEGA for starters....
The NAVY MEGA hits the abaddon after resists for 296.7dps out to 4.5km with faction AM and gaurde T2.
And with NULL and gaurde T2 the NAVY MEGA hits the abaddon after resists for 250.2dps out to 11km.
The abaddon with faction MF and gaurde T2 hits the NAVY MEGA after resists for 247.66dps out to 15km.
So with faction AM at 4.5km the NAVY MEGA gets 2354 more ehp and 49.04 more DPS.
And at 11km with NULL the NAVY MEGA also gets 2354 more EHP but only 2.54 more DPS.
Does that fit on the NAVY MEGA have a little more EHP than the abaddon?.
YES, but not enough to be significantly important.
Does that fit on the NAVY MEGA have a very tiny but more dmg at 11km than the abaddon?.
YES, but not enough to be significantly important (2.54 lol), although the ability to work at that range makes the NAVY MEGA more cap stable.
Does that fit on the NAVY MEGA have quite a bit more DPS at 4.5km?.
YES, but needing to work at 4.5km for that extra DPS makes the NAVY MEGA very unstable as far as cap is concerned along with the fact that also in gang combat the NAVY MEGA losses tonnes of DPS when its outside 4.5km.
Is it worth buying a NAVY MEGA and fitting it like you have for RR gang combat on TQ?.
Never in a million years.
It will be a gaurenteed primary target for every oposing RR gang and with only 2354 more EHP and lower resists than the abaddon it will die a lot.
Its a waste of ISK.
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Seishomaru
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Posted - 2009.04.06 12:19:00 -
[1557]
Quick question.. how much a navy mega pays out in insurance? (i never lost a navy BS to know). ISit same as standard mega?
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The Djego
Minmatar
merovinger inc
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Posted - 2009.04.06 12:20:00 -
[1558]
Originally by: Seishomaru
Quick question.. how much a navy mega pays out in insurance? (i never lost a navy BS to know). ISit same as standard mega?
Yes it is the same.
----
Nerf Tank - Boost Gank!
Originally by: Amantus
Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.04.06 12:22:00 -
[1559]
Edited by: NightmareX on 06/04/2009 12:24:14
Originally by: Childstar
Its a waste of ISK.
For you it is, but not for me that only cares about having the best ship when it's about DPS, EHP and RR combined.
But we are not talking about the setup i have on TQ right now on my Navy Mega. We are talking about the setup i posted earlier that have 3x Coreli ANP's and 3x damage mods.
When i want the best of that, then i gladly pay for a Navy Mega.
And not only that, i'm paying for a ship that looks dead sexy. It looks way way more cooler and more evil than the Abaddon.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Childstar
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Posted - 2009.04.06 12:31:00 -
[1560]
Edited by: Childstar on 06/04/2009 12:32:24
Originally by: Childstar
The differance is not worth it.
Your new navy mega fit gets 156,176 EHP with 78.2em, 71.7th, 71.7ki, 60.8ex resists.
My abaddon fit has 153,822 EHP with 82.7em, 77.5th, 74ki, 72.3ex resists.
So 2354 more EHP using the NAVY MEGA for starters....
The NAVY MEGA hits the abaddon after resists for 296.7dps out to 4.5km with faction AM and gaurde T2.
And with NULL and gaurde T2 the NAVY MEGA hits the abaddon after resists for 250.2dps out to 11km.
The abaddon with faction MF and gaurde T2 hits the NAVY MEGA after resists for 247.66dps out to 15km.
So with faction AM at 4.5km the NAVY MEGA gets 2354 more ehp and 49.04 more DPS.
And at 11km with NULL the NAVY MEGA also gets 2354 more EHP but only 2.54 more DPS.
Does that fit on the NAVY MEGA have a little more EHP than the abaddon?.
YES, but not enough to be significantly important.
Does that fit on the NAVY MEGA have a very tiny but more dmg at 11km than the abaddon?.
YES, but not enough to be significantly important (2.54 lol), although the ability to work at that range makes the NAVY MEGA more cap stable.
Does that fit on the NAVY MEGA have quite a bit more DPS at 4.5km?.
YES, but needing to work at 4.5km for that extra DPS makes the NAVY MEGA very unstable as far as cap is concerned along with the fact that also in gang combat the NAVY MEGA losses tonnes of DPS when its outside 4.5km.
Is it worth buying a NAVY MEGA and fitting it like you have for RR gang combat on TQ?.
Never in a million years.
It will be a gaurenteed primary target for every oposing RR gang and with only 2354 more EHP and lower resists than the abaddon it will die a lot.
Its a waste of ISK.
Originally by: NightmareX
For you it is, but not for me that only cares about having the best ship when it's about DPS, EHP and RR combined.
Thats because you never have flown it and never will and nor does anybody else on TQ.
Its a EFT paper fantasy that is NEVER used on TQ.
Originally by: NightmareX
But we are not talking about the setup i have on TQ right now on my Navy Mega. We are talking about the setup i posted earlier that have 3x Coreli ANP's and 3x damage mods.
I know im using the 3x Coreli ANP's and 3x damage mods stats....do pay attention..
Originally by: NightmareX
When i want the best of that, then i gladly pay for a Navy Mega.
Easy claim to make considering you never use them or even normal blaster megas on TQ ever...
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Childstar
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Posted - 2009.04.06 12:55:00 -
[1561]
Edited by: Childstar on 06/04/2009 13:06:16
Originally by: Seishomaru
Quick question.. how much a navy mega pays out in insurance? (i never lost a navy BS to know). ISit same as standard mega?
Yes.
NAVY MEGA FIT COST.
NAVY MEGA = 470mil unfitted btw.
Correli c-type adaptive nano plating = 20MIL each and his fit uses 3 so 60 mil.
The webs and points are roughly the same price as the abaddons and Mega pulse T2 are about half a mil more that T2 nuetrons but MEH tbh.
The abaddon costs 142mil and change but is insurable and the amarr navy eanm's i fitted it with cost 30 mil each and i used 2.
So 530 mil + other fitting costs for 3000 ish more EHP and also gaurenteed to be primary in any gang fighting, and only standard mega insurance return.
VS
200 mil + other fitting costs for 3000ish less EHP but full insurance payout.
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Childstar
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Posted - 2009.04.06 15:00:00 -
[1562]
Edited by: Childstar on 06/04/2009 15:00:28
Originally by: NightmareX
1. If your starting the fight with your RR Blaster Mega / RR Domi gang, you start by warping in right on top of their asses, your not starting the fight at 30 km dude, you warp right in on their asses. And then you do the epic LOLLING after that when there are explosions everywhere because they pop like cruisers.
Wrong, the standard mega fit has low EHP poor resists with a large explosive hole and does less dmg vs the abaddon than the abaddon does against it.
So the explosions you will see are the megas going pop and the loling will be done by the abaddons.
Originally by: NightmareX
But then, it's not like that your going to be able to keep us scrambled or webbed if you warp in at 30 km if both of the gangs are only in BS'es. Oh crap, you didn't think about that heh.
If both gangs are only BS's then both gangs are idiots, but then why warp in at 30km why not 20 or 15, i mean the baddons can own the megas at the megas 4.5km optimal so coming in at a bit longer range like 15-20 just reduces the losses for the baddons even further.
Look who is not thinking...
Originally by: NightmareX
If the cap is such a problem for you in your Gallente BS'es and cannot MWD for 20 km to get them into web range. Then do the easy thing by warping out and warp in on them again if you can.
So you think warping out and then warping back would not drain your cap?...
Plus at 20km you will be pointed and in 0.0 you can bet you will be bubbled.
Originally by: NightmareX
2. Like there is so many that do explosive damage nowdays.
All missile users all mini.....so 2 races out of 4...
Originally by: NightmareX
3. Do you know why?, because someone have to use a fail fit because they don't have the isk to buy 1 or 2 faction modules to make the mega very good.
The standard mega even with the faction modules on it is still not as good as the abaddon.
Originally by: NightmareX
4. Navy Mega outperform the Abaddon in mostly everything. The Navy Mega with a t2 setup and 3x Coreli ANP's is way better than the Abaddon in most ways.
Its not way better, it has a little more EHP (less than 3000 lol) and does insignificantly more dmg at 11km (less than 3dps) and 40 or so more dmg at 4.5km.
And it costs around 550-600 million to buy and fit and only gets standard mega insurance.
Oh and most importantly if you do fly it in a RR gang vs RR gang fight you can bet you are going to be primary so LOL at the extra 3k EHP...
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Yewandeh
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Posted - 2009.04.06 18:22:00 -
[1563]
Edited by: Yewandeh on 06/04/2009 18:25:34
Feeding the trolls but, isn't the reason of a rr gang to outlast normal gang?
So what's the deal with this neutron heavy dps fitting which leaves your cap empty very soon? And why am i talking about rr gang in a blaster thread?
Also, why compare a blaster ship to a laser ship in a blaster thread?
Blaster thread
blaster.
Edit:typos
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Fistme
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Posted - 2009.04.06 18:32:00 -
[1564]
Originally by: Yewandeh
Also, why compare a blaster ship to a laser ship in a blaster thread?
Blaster thread
blaster.
..... Really dude?
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Childstar
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Posted - 2009.04.06 18:50:00 -
[1565]
Originally by: Yewandeh
Feeding the trolls but, isn't the reason of a rr gang to outlast normal gang?
No its to out tank them while killing them.
Originally by: Yewandeh
So what's the deal with this neutron heavy dps fitting which leaves your cap empty very soon? And why am i talking about rr gang in a blaster thread?
Cos noobmareX thinks that neutron RR megas are the best RR ships in the game and tried to use that to prove blasters are ok.
He has now been educated although he did try pitching a neutron NAVY MEGA RR gang ship and even made claims that their are corps in eve that use gangs of them and roam around with them all the time ect....poor troll imho.
Originally by: Yewandeh
Also, why compare a blaster ship to a laser ship in a blaster thread?
Fixing/balancing a system involves comparing it to other systems in its class.
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
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Posted - 2009.04.06 21:03:00 -
[1566]
Edited by: NightmareX on 06/04/2009 21:05:45
Childstar, if you think the Abaddon is better than the Navy Mega, then where is your setup that proves it?. I'm still waiting for it.
So before you post a setup to the Abaddon that beats the Navy Mega, then we all can say the Navy Mega is a better RR, DPS and EHP ship than the Abaddon is stats wise.
And yes, the Navy Mega now cost 470 mill isk. But when i bought it i payed 315 mill isk for it with 3x t1 Trimarks on it.
But like i have said, i will pay for the Navy Mega any days over the Abaddon to get the most out of the DPS, EHP and the RR.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Childstar
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Posted - 2009.04.06 21:33:00 -
[1567]
Edited by: Childstar on 06/04/2009 21:34:40
Originally by: NightmareX
Childstar, if you think the Abaddon is better than the Navy Mega, then where is your setup that proves it?. I'm still waiting for it.
Show me where i say my abaddon fit is better (STAT WISE) than your navy mega fit?.
If you actually bother to check i clearly go into great detail to show the exact dmg and EHP of both fits...
Originally by: NightmareX
So before you post a setup to the Abaddon that beats the Navy Mega, then we all can say the Navy Mega is a better RR, DPS and EHP ship than the Abaddon is stats wise.
Its a waste of isk and a gaurenteed primary target and dead duck in a RR gang v gang fight.
So as i clearly said above your NAVY MEGA is MARGINALLY better stat wise but its also not worth flying due to the cost and the fact it will ALWAYS be primaried and melted.
Originally by: NightmareX
And yes, the Navy Mega now cost 470 mill isk. But when i bought it i payed 315 mill isk for it with 3x t1 Trimarks on it.
You are probably lying yet again but even if you are not it does not matter cos they NOW cost 470+ 60 for the faction mods and whatever else for the rest of the fit.
So what is that?, 580-600mil depending on the area for the full rigged fit...and all for less than 3000 more EHP than the abaddon....
Originally by: NightmareX
But like i have said, i will pay for the Navy Mega any days over the Abaddon to get the most out of the DPS, EHP and the RR.
You may now have good EHP and adequate resists by using a NAVY MEGA but that is what the standard RR mega with a T2 fit should have already considering the range it is forced to work at in combat.
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
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Posted - 2009.04.06 22:03:00 -
[1568]
Edited by: NightmareX on 06/04/2009 22:03:38
Originally by: Childstar
Edited by: Childstar on 06/04/2009 21:34:40
Originally by: NightmareX
Childstar, if you think the Abaddon is better than the Navy Mega, then where is your setup that proves it?. I'm still waiting for it.
Show me where i say my abaddon fit is better (STAT WISE) than your navy mega fit?.
If you actually bother to check i clearly go into great detail to show the exact dmg and EHP of both fits...
Originally by: NightmareX
So before you post a setup to the Abaddon that beats the Navy Mega, then we all can say the Navy Mega is a better RR, DPS and EHP ship than the Abaddon is stats wise.
Its a waste of isk and a gaurenteed primary target and dead duck in a RR gang v gang fight.
So as i clearly said above your NAVY MEGA is MARGINALLY better stat wise but its also not worth flying due to the cost and the fact it will ALWAYS be primaried and melted.
Originally by: NightmareX
And yes, the Navy Mega now cost 470 mill isk. But when i bought it i payed 315 mill isk for it with 3x t1 Trimarks on it.
You are probably lying yet again but even if you are not it does not matter cos they NOW cost 470+ 60 for the faction mods and whatever else for the rest of the fit.
So what is that?, 580-600mil depending on the area for the full rigged fit...and all for less than 3000 more EHP than the abaddon....
Originally by: NightmareX
But like i have said, i will pay for the Navy Mega any days over the Abaddon to get the most out of the DPS, EHP and the RR.
You may now have good EHP and adequate resists by using a NAVY MEGA but that is what the standard RR mega with a T2 fit should have already considering the range it is forced to work at in combat.
1. Why are you arguing with me that the Abaddon does have better stats than the Navy Mega then?.
2. Yeah your EHP and DPS is lower than the Navy mega, so yeah, the Navy Megs is better for me.
3. It's not a waste of isk FOR ME. And you know, when i'm out to PVP, i like to get shoot to get more action. And it's also nice to have one faction ship in a gang, because then you will automaticly know who will be the primary to the enemy gang, and then you know who to start RRing right away. The Navy Mega can for example be a very good bait ship.
4. 24% better DPS before the resists, some few more % EHP on the Navy Mega than the Abaddon is just way more than marginally better dude. And because the Navy Mega already have higher resists than your Abaddon except for the explosive resists, then the DPS actually will be a little more than just 24% more than the Abaddon.
5. Yeah and?, if i want the best DPS, EHP and RR combined, then i'm paying for the best. To get the best, you have to spend some isk on it.
6. Yes, clearly the Mega that are tier 2 should have as good stats as a tier 3 ship. Yeah, isn't that the right guys?.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Childstar
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Posted - 2009.04.06 22:24:00 -
[1569]
Edited by: Childstar on 06/04/2009 22:31:35
Originally by: NightmareX
1. Why are you arguing with me that the Abaddon does have better stats than the Navy Mega then?.
Il say again show me where i say this.
Originally by: NightmareX
It's not a waste of isk FOR ME. And you know, when i'm out to PVP, i like to get shoot to get more action.
Yea you love the action....you must watch it on fraps though cos you have never flown the ship on TQ you liar, in fact you only learned how to fit it less than 24 hours ago..
Originally by: NightmareX
4. 24% better DPS before the resists, some few more % EHP on the Navy Mega than the Abaddon is just way more than marginally better dude.
Ok muppet heres the thing
THE STANDARD 3 MAG STAB MEGA GETS THE SAME DPS AS THE 3 MAG STAB NAVY MEGA...
YOU ARE PAYING NEARLY 600 MIL ISK FOR JUST 2354 MORE EHP THAN THE ABADDON...
Originally by: NightmareX
And because the Navy Mega already have higher resists than your Abaddon except for the explosive resists, then the DPS actually will be a little more than just 24% more than the Abaddon.
Its 21% more DPS at 4.5km not 24% (1235 vs 982 = 21%).
My abaddon fit has 153,822 EHP with 82.7em, 77.5th, 74ki, 72.3ex resists.
Your navy mega has 156,176 EHP with 78.2em, 71.7th, 71.7ki, 60.8ex resists.
YOUR NAVY MEGA HAS LESS RESISTS THAN MY ABADDON FIT SO IT DOES LESS THAN 21% more DPS AT 4.5km in fact its only 10-15% or so more.
Originally by: NightmareX
5. Yeah and?, if i want the best DPS, EHP and RR combined, then i'm paying for the best. To get the best, you have to spend some isk on it.
600ish mil just to get the same raw DPS as the standard mega, 2354 more EHP than the abaddon and still have LOWER resists than the abaddon...Oh and to be gaurenteed primary...
NOT WORTH IT...and only somebody with no intention of flying it on TQ would say otherwise
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Childstar
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Posted - 2009.04.06 22:36:00 -
[1570]
Read this carefully:
THE STANDARD 3 MAG STAB MEGA GETS THE SAME DPS AS THE 3 MAG STAB NAVY MEGA...
YOU ARE PAYING NEARLY 600 MIL ISK FOR JUST 2354 MORE EHP THAN THE ABADDON...
And your NAVY MEGA FIT also has lower resists than my abaddon fit...
Its not worth it.
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Traderboz
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Posted - 2009.04.06 22:52:00 -
[1571]
Navy Mega is definitely better than the Mega, but that's obvious. If you can only fly Gallente BS, I'd probably go with Mega for RR (although Domi is sort of tempting to me). I doubt I'd drop the extra ISK's for a Navy Mega though, just because you're guaranteed to be called primary if you engage any opponent capable of fighting back.
If you have max skills for both Gallente and Amarr ships, it's a tougher call imo. All these comparisons have done nothing other than show the damage/EHP are pretty close between mega/abaddon, but most of those comparisons are using the Mega's DPS at 5km or thereabouts. Look at the Mega's DPS at 15km, and it's probably not a pretty picture. And there really is no way for it compete with the range the Abaddon can reach with Scorch. Sure, the Mega's got nice DPS if you warp in right on top of your opponent, or perhaps if your opponent sits there while you and your gang MWD right up into their face. When things go the Mega's way, it does quite well.
But if your gang isn't 100% blaster boats, then you can't really just MWD by yourself into blaster range (I guess you could, but then your Mega/Navy Mega is away from your gang and in the heart of the enemy gang). If your enemy is further away, for whatever reason, the blaster Mega is going to be at a disadvantage (and at some ranges, won't be able to damage the enemy much at all, whereas the Abaddon can reach out with scorch). And then there's the higher overall EHP, which is just a straight-up advantage.
IMHO, the Mega isn't completely outclassed, but a lot of things have to go its way for it to perform better than the Abaddon. The Abaddon wins out overall with higher EHP and comparable damage at close ranges, while still retaining the ability to reach out to enemies at longer ranges.
The back and forth in this thread is really pretty pointless, but oh well. I'm sure it will continue until someone gets a forum ban, and then we will probably see Electric make a triumphant return to continue the back and forth.
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Childstar
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Posted - 2009.04.06 23:07:00 -
[1572]
Originally by: Traderboz
Navy Mega is definitely better than the Mega, but that's obvious. If you can only fly Gallente BS, I'd probably go with Mega for RR (although Domi is sort of tempting to me). I doubt I'd drop the extra ISK's for a Navy Mega though, just because you're guaranteed to be called primary if you engage any opponent capable of fighting back.
Catch 22, if you use a navy mega and only engage easily beatable gangs then you may as well use a standard mega, but if you engage equally sized gangs you will be primaried instantly...
Originally by: Traderboz
If you have max skills for both Gallente and Amarr ships, it's a tougher call imo. All these comparisons have done nothing other than show the damage/EHP are pretty close between mega/abaddon, but most of those comparisons are using the Mega's DPS at 5km or thereabouts.
NMX goes total EMO if you even mention a range past the perfect blaster optimal even though most fights do not happen at 4.5km. But even with the figures at 4.5km the abaddon easily out clases the mega anyway.
Not only that but a mega is always gonna be within the range of ALL the hostile ships but it also has one of the weakest tanks out of all the RR ships if it fits to do good dmg.
Originally by: Traderboz
IMHO, the Mega isn't completely outclassed, but a lot of things have to go its way for it to perform better than the Abaddon. The Abaddon wins out overall with higher EHP and comparable damage at close ranges, while still retaining the ability to reach out to enemies at longer ranges.
Thats why NMX needed to whip out the navy mega fit, he tried faction fitting the std mega but the abaddon still owned it even at blaster optimal so he switched his spin to a faction fitted navy mega instead.
Toyally ignoring the fact he not only lost every argument up to that point in a desperate attempt to try and get some sort of victory...also forgetting in his desperation to do so that the topic is about standard blaster ships...
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Liang Nuren
No Salvation
PuPPet MasTers
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Posted - 2009.04.06 23:28:00 -
[1573]
Originally by: Traderboz
Navy Mega is definitely better than the Mega, but that's obvious. If you can only fly Gallente BS, I'd probably go with Mega for RR (although Domi is sort of tempting to me). I doubt I'd drop the extra ISK's for a Navy Mega though, just because you're guaranteed to be called primary if you engage any opponent capable of fighting back.
If you have max skills for both Gallente and Amarr ships, it's a tougher call imo. All these comparisons have done nothing other than show the damage/EHP are pretty close between mega/abaddon, but most of those comparisons are using the Mega's DPS at 5km or thereabouts. Look at the Mega's DPS at 15km, and it's probably not a pretty picture. And there really is no way for it compete with the range the Abaddon can reach with Scorch. Sure, the Mega's got nice DPS if you warp in right on top of your opponent, or perhaps if your opponent sits there while you and your gang MWD right up into their face. When things go the Mega's way, it does quite well.
But if your gang isn't 100% blaster boats, then you can't really just MWD by yourself into blaster range (I guess you could, but then your Mega/Navy Mega is away from your gang and in the heart of the enemy gang). If your enemy is further away, for whatever reason, the blaster Mega is going to be at a disadvantage (and at some ranges, won't be able to damage the enemy much at all, whereas the Abaddon can reach out with scorch). And then there's the higher overall EHP, which is just a straight-up advantage.
IMHO, the Mega isn't completely outclassed, but a lot of things have to go its way for it to perform better than the Abaddon. The Abaddon wins out overall with higher EHP and comparable damage at close ranges, while still retaining the ability to reach out to enemies at longer ranges.
The back and forth in this thread is really pretty pointless, but oh well. I'm sure it will continue until someone gets a forum ban, and then we will probably see Electric make a triumphant return to continue the back and forth.
Hey Boz, I dunno, seems like the real kick in the pants is that you won't be MWD'ing about that much in because of RR range being so low for non-logistics ships. Really, the MWD on the RR fits is largely for purposes of burning out of bubbles, back to gates, and warp time. Half to a quarter of your force using it for maneuvering in the fight is almost certainly going to lead to failure because RR gangs aren't precision dances. Someone's either gonna get left high and dry as they slip out of RR range of half the fleet, or they'll burn through all the cap maneuvering that would have been better spent on repping shooting.
A real RR mega is gonna be running rails, MWD/Hvy Cap Booster/ECCM/SeBo, and tank (resists/HP). It might have one damage mod. Obviously, the light of reality makes pretty much all the fits posted (including the one I fit with Neutrons+MWD+Hvy Booster) all fail fits. And if you run the numbers, I think you'll see that the Abaddon can put together a superior tank with superior damage and superior range - even if it has to sacrifice a high to the RR.
In the end, the Domi is the Gallente RR BS, just like the Abaddon is the Amarr RR BS and the Raven is the Caldari RR BS and the Phoon is the Minmatar RR BS. (Yes, I realize that there are arguments for using the Geddon, but please tell me where you plan to fit the MWD+Hvy Booster+ECCM+SeBo...)
-Liang
--
Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
www.kwikdeath.org |
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
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Posted - 2009.04.06 23:30:00 -
[1574]
Originally by: Childstar
Edited by: Childstar on 06/04/2009 22:43:31
Originally by: NightmareX
1. Why are you arguing with me that the Abaddon does have better stats than the Navy Mega then?.
Il say again show me where i say this.
Originally by: NightmareX
It's not a waste of isk FOR ME. And you know, when i'm out to PVP, i like to get shoot to get more action.
Yea you love the action....you must watch it on fraps though cos you have never flown the ship on TQ you liar, in fact you only learned how to fit it less than 24 hours ago..
Originally by: NightmareX
And it's also nice to have one faction ship in a gang, because then you will automaticly know who will be the primary to the enemy gang, and then you know who to start RRing right away. The Navy Mega can for example be a very good bait ship.
Hello mr clueless if you are gonna use a navy mega as a bait ship you tank the crap out of it and fit it with less DMG, you do not fit it with neutrons ect and make it use ANP's cos of cpu issues.
Originally by: NightmareX
4. 24% better DPS before the resists, some few more % EHP on the Navy Mega than the Abaddon is just way more than marginally better dude.
Ok muppet heres the thing
THE STANDARD 3 MAG STAB MEGA GETS THE SAME DPS AS THE 3 MAG STAB NAVY MEGA...
YOU ARE PAYING NEARLY 600 MIL ISK FOR JUST 2354 MORE EHP THAN THE ABADDON...
Originally by: NightmareX
And because the Navy Mega already have higher resists than your Abaddon except for the explosive resists, then the DPS actually will be a little more than just 24% more than the Abaddon.
Its 21% more DPS at 4.5km not 24% (1235 vs 982 = 21%).
My abaddon fit has 153,822 EHP with 82.7em, 77.5th, 74ki, 72.3ex resists.
Your navy mega has 156,176 EHP with 78.2em, 71.7th, 71.7ki, 60.8ex resists.
YOUR NAVY MEGA HAS LESS RESISTS THAN MY ABADDON FIT SO IT DOES LESS THAN 21% more DPS AT 4.5km in fact its only 10-15% or so more.
Originally by: NightmareX
5. Yeah and?, if i want the best DPS, EHP and RR combined, then i'm paying for the best. To get the best, you have to spend some isk on it.
600ish mil just to get the same raw DPS as the standard mega, 2354 more EHP than the abaddon and still have LOWER resists than the abaddon...Oh and to be gaurenteed primary...
NOT WORTH IT...and only somebody with no intention of flying it on TQ would say otherwise
1. You said it earlier, but you changed on it after you found out that i was right.
2. I love to get shoot no matter what. When i have the time to do PVP then i was as much action as possible within the time i have to play. So i have to do something to get the most action then, right?.
3. Yes i use my ship both as a massive EHP ship while i still can do great DPS. The Navy mega can still work as bait with my setup though.
4. How many times do i have to tell you this. But when i'm after the best DPS, EHP and RR BS, i'm then playing to get the best one to. I have enough isk to buy plenty of the 600 mill isk Navy Megas anyways.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.04.06 23:31:00 -
[1575]
Edited by: NightmareX on 06/04/2009 23:35:47
Originally by: Traderboz
I'm sure it will continue until someone gets a forum ban, and then we will probably see Electric make a triumphant return to continue the back and forth.
Want me to show Electric Universe this reply so he can get more tempted to post to?.
Originally by: Childstar
Edited by: Childstar on 06/04/2009 22:38:41
Read this carefully:
And i think you should read what i'm saying under here EXTREMELY CAREFULL instead.
And then to your resists things Childstar. This is going to be a suprise for you.
First of all, Blasters are doing most Kinetic damage, and look what your Kinetic resist is on your Abaddon, and then look at your Thermal resist that is the lowest damage Blasters do.
Then look at what damage lasers do. Yes, lasers do most EM damage and does some Thermal damage. Oh wait, look how high my EM resist is. The Navy Mega have better resists to EM that is the highest damage to lasers and then you have lower resists to Kinetic that is the highest damage to Blasters.
Than lets do some more calculating.
Now lets go to the Neutrons and the Caldari Navy Antimatter L ammo. The Caldari Navy Antimatter L does 32.2 kinetic damage and 23 thermal damage.
Then we take 32.2 damage minus the 74% Kinetic resist the Abaddon have to kinetic. And that damage will then be 8,372 damage.
Then we take the Thermal damage that is 23 minus the 77.5% Thermal resist your Abaddon have. And that will be 5,175 damage.
And 8,372 damage + 5,175 damage = 13,547 damage.
Now lets go to the Pulses and the Amarr Navy Multifrequency L. The Amarr Navy Multifrequency L does 32.2 EM damage and 23 Thermal damage.
Then we take the 32.2 EM damage minus the 78.2% EM resists i have on the Navy Mega. And that is 7,0196 damage.
And then take the 23 Thermal damage minus the 71.7% Thermal resist i have on my Navy Mega. And that will be 6,509 damage.
And 7,0196 damage + 6,509 damage = 13,5286 damage.
So yeah, when you see here, the Navy Mega are doing more DPS than the Abaddon hahahahahahaha.
Yes this is with both the Abaddon and Navy Mega at level 5.
Damn, i though that you was the king of doing some calculatings here.
So yes, the Navy Mega does a barly better DPS than the Abaddon when the Navy Mega and the Abaddon is shooting each others. And the Navy Mega have 2354 more EHP.
In this calculation, i have used your Abaddon setup with 2x Amarr Navy ENMS's and 3x damage mods. And i have used the Navy Mega setup with 3x Coreli ANP's and 3x damage mods.
So you still don't believe mw when i say the Navy Mega is better than the Abaddon in EHP and DPS?.
Now i wait for your calculation.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Childstar
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Posted - 2009.04.06 23:41:00 -
[1576]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
A real RR mega is gonna be running rails, MWD/Hvy Cap Booster/ECCM/SeBo, and tank (resists/HP). It might have one damage mod. Obviously, the light of reality makes pretty much all the fits posted (including the one I fit with Neutrons+MWD+Hvy Booster) all fail fits. And if you run the numbers, I think you'll see that the Abaddon can put together a superior tank with superior damage and superior range - even if it has to sacrifice a high to the RR.
I know that, you know that certain other individuals who have only just learned how to fit a mega let alone fly one on TQ seem to want to continuosly troll the thread with unsubstantiated claims about RR blaster BS..
Originally by: Liang Nuren
In the end, the Domi is the Gallente RR BS, just like the Abaddon is the Amarr RR BS and the Raven is the Caldari RR BS and the Phoon is the Minmatar RR BS. (Yes, I realize that there are arguments for using the Geddon, but please tell me where you plan to fit the MWD+Hvy Booster+ECCM+SeBo...)
The domi is a good RR ship in its own way, it can fit a great tank and multiple RR, its dmg is lacking compared to the baddon but it can also easily fitted with heavy nuets making it a utility RR BS more than a damage dealer imho.
Unfortunatly this thread is about the viability and usefulness of blaster BS on TQ and it clearly shows that they are not...
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
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Posted - 2009.04.06 23:44:00 -
[1577]
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: Liang Nuren
A real RR mega is gonna be running rails, MWD/Hvy Cap Booster/ECCM/SeBo, and tank (resists/HP). It might have one damage mod. Obviously, the light of reality makes pretty much all the fits posted (including the one I fit with Neutrons+MWD+Hvy Booster) all fail fits. And if you run the numbers, I think you'll see that the Abaddon can put together a superior tank with superior damage and superior range - even if it has to sacrifice a high to the RR.
I know that, you know that certain other individuals who have only just learned how to fit a mega let alone fly one on TQ seem to want to continuosly troll the thread with unsubstantiated claims about RR blaster BS..
Unfortunatly this thread is about the viability and usefulness of blaster BS on TQ and it clearly shows that they are not...
Rails in an RR gang is only usefull in 0.0 space because of bubbles and that.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
PuPPet MasTers
|
Posted - 2009.04.06 23:48:00 -
[1578]
Originally by: NightmareX
Than lets do some more calculating.
The Caldari Navy Antimatter L does 32.2 kinetic damage and 23 thermal damage...... 13,547 damage.
The Amarr Navy Multifrequency L does 32.2 EM damage and 23 Thermal damage........ 13,5286 damage.
....And the Navy Mega have 2354 more EHP.....
....3x damage mods.....
Ok, so you're right now looking at the ships sitting still blowing into each other at < 4500m. But what's the reality? Fights that may or may not be happening within 4.5km, or even within 20km. The reality of the situation is that you need to be able to throw your damage around and still stay within RR range.
So... what's that damage look like at say 10km? How about 20km? 50? 100? How's your mega's tank hold up when being *guaranteed* to be primary? Hell man, if I were gonna take a navy mega into a RR gang I'd tank the ****** out of it because you just know they're gonna primary you!
3 damage mods, again, are fail.
-Liang
--
Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
www.kwikdeath.org |
Mag's
the united
Negative Ten.
|
Posted - 2009.04.06 23:49:00 -
[1579]
So Electric Universe NightmareX, what's Australia like this time of year?
Regards
Mag |
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.04.06 23:52:00 -
[1580]
Edited by: NightmareX on 06/04/2009 23:55:36
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: NightmareX
Than lets do some more calculating.
The Caldari Navy Antimatter L does 32.2 kinetic damage and 23 thermal damage...... 13,547 damage.
The Amarr Navy Multifrequency L does 32.2 EM damage and 23 Thermal damage........ 13,5286 damage.
....And the Navy Mega have 2354 more EHP.....
....3x damage mods.....
Ok, so you're right now looking at the ships sitting still blowing into each other at < 4500m. But what's the reality? Fights that may or may not be happening within 4.5km, or even within 20km. The reality of the situation is that you need to be able to throw your damage around and still stay within RR range.
So... what's that damage look like at say 10km? How about 20km? 50? 100? How's your mega's tank hold up when being *guaranteed* to be primary? Hell man, if I were gonna take a navy mega into a RR gang I'd tank the ****** out of it because you just know they're gonna primary you!
3 damage mods, again, are fail.
-Liang
I know 3 damage mods is fail. But as you know, Child was ONLY using his Abaddon with 3x HS II, so i then just used 3x MFS II to just compare then when he didn't want to use 2 damage mods or 1.
My TQ setup on my Navy Mega only have 1x damage mod, and the rest is plates and omni tanks. yes it have a HUUUGE EHP in gangs with armor bonuses.
Originally by: Mag's
So Electric Universe NightmareX, what's Australia like this time of year?
LOL, i never though that Norway was Australia.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
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Childstar
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Posted - 2009.04.06 23:54:00 -
[1581]
Originally by: NightmareX
Rant with some math that has already been done.
Read post 1530 or 1535 you clown i did the math and the comparative dmg ammounts for these fits hours ago...
I used gaurde T2 on both fits.
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Mag's
the united
Negative Ten.
|
Posted - 2009.04.06 23:54:00 -
[1582]
Originally by: NightmareX
Originally by: Mag's
So Electric Universe NightmareX, what's Australia like this time of year?
LOL, i never though that Norway was Australia.
You must be through to there already, crikey you been digging that hole for weeks now.
Regards
Mag |
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.04.06 23:56:00 -
[1583]
Originally by: Mag's
Originally by: NightmareX
Originally by: Mag's
So Electric Universe NightmareX, what's Australia like this time of year?
LOL, i never though that Norway was Australia.
You must be through to there already, crikey you been digging that hole for weeks now.
LOL.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.04.07 00:04:00 -
[1584]
Edited by: NightmareX on 07/04/2009 00:09:34
[ Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: NightmareX
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: NightmareX
Rant with some math that has already been done.
Read post 1530 or 1535 you clown i did the math and the comparative dmg ammounts for these fits hours ago...
I used gaurde T2 on both fits.
Why use Gardes on a Navy Mega that is only meant for very close range fights?
Figure it out, all you need is TQ XP in gang combat.....hmmm it may take you a while then.
Yeah, using long range targeting sentry drones when i'm fighting in close range is REALLY smart.
Nice way to lose the DPS on the Navy Mega here dude.
And not only that, but as you say all the time, the Mega's have to MWD a bit to. Ops, i think you shoot your self in the foot there then if your using sentry drones then LOL.
Oh god, this is sooooooo funny right now.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Childstar
|
Posted - 2009.04.07 00:12:00 -
[1585]
Edited by: Childstar on 07/04/2009 00:14:48
Originally by: NightmareX
Yeah, using long range targeting drones when i'm fighting in close range is REALLY smart.
Nice way to lose the DPS on the Navy Mega here dude.
I keep forgetting that all the fights you have ever had in a mega on TQ are actually only in your head.
So you always put yourself at perfect optimal from every ship and those ships are all right next to each other so drones have 0 travel time ect EVER....
Even at 4.5km it takes ogre T2's over 5 secs to reach the first ship and thats over 2 volleys from the gaurdes then factor in travel time every time you switch targets......
Originally by: NightmareX
And not only that, but as you say all the time, the Mega's have to MWD a bit to. .
1050ms for the drones to get into range 800ish ms for the mega to get into optimal if it needs to (and it will need to a lot). So 1km per second for the drones and less for the mega..... now do you wanna talk about lost DPS????...
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Liang Nuren
No Salvation
PuPPet MasTers
|
Posted - 2009.04.07 00:13:00 -
[1586]
Originally by: NightmareX
Oh god, this is sooooooo funny right now.
Oh, you have no idea.
-Liang
--
Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
www.kwikdeath.org |
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.04.07 00:22:00 -
[1587]
Edited by: NightmareX on 07/04/2009 00:24:16
Originally by: Childstar
Edited by: Childstar on 07/04/2009 00:14:48
Originally by: NightmareX
Yeah, using long range targeting drones when i'm fighting in close range is REALLY smart.
Nice way to lose the DPS on the Navy Mega here dude.
I keep forgetting that all the fights you have ever had in a mega on TQ are actually only in your head.
So you always put yourself at perfect optimal from every ship and those ships are all right next to each other so drones have 0 travel time ect EVER....
Even at 4.5km it takes ogre T2's over 5 secs to reach the first ship and thats over 2 volleys from the gaurdes then factor in travel time every time you switch targets......
Originally by: NightmareX
And not only that, but as you say all the time, the Mega's have to MWD a bit to. .
1050ms for the drones to get into range 800ish ms for the mega to get into optimal if it needs to (and it will need to a lot). So 1km per second for the drones and less for the mega..... now do you wanna talk about lost DPS????...
1. Still when i don't do PVP on TQ as you say i do, then i still pwned your ass in here because you was wrong and i proved you to be totally wrong about the Abaddon and the Navy Mega.
How does that feel to be?. It must be a good feeling to be utterly pwned by a noob with no TQ experience at all when your the expert here on TQ PVP.
2. When i warp right into you. Then i don't think my normal t2 drones need to use time to move around to get to the primary, secondary and the next ones.
3. Yeah it only help you with a kick start on the damage from the sentry drones UNTIL you start to move to the next target that might be moving and then the sentry drones can't hit them for sh*t.
No, i use Ogre II anydays over Gardes on my Navy Mega.
4. I really like to see if your sentry drones can hit anything that are moving faster than 100 m/s.
Yes the Gardes is good to have on the Abaddon or the Geddon because they are more med range ships.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Childstar
|
Posted - 2009.04.07 00:23:00 -
[1588]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: NightmareX
Oh god, this is sooooooo funny right now.
Oh, you have no idea.
-Liang
Do you think he knows the differance in dmg ogre T2's get compared to gaurde T2's with max skills?...
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.04.07 00:28:00 -
[1589]
Edited by: NightmareX on 07/04/2009 00:31:39
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: NightmareX
Oh god, this is sooooooo funny right now.
Oh, you have no idea.
-Liang
Do you think he knows the differance in dmg ogre T2's get compared to gaurde T2's with max skills?...
T2 Garde does 50 thermal damage while the T2 Ogre does 48 thermal damage.
And also, with 5x Ogre II i'll do 1226 DPS in the Navy Mega with 3x damage mods, but with 5x Garde II i'll do 1209 DPS. So no, i'm not lowering my DPS by doing that.
First lowering the DPS by using sentry drones, and then use sentry drones and can't hit sh*t when the targets start to move or MWD.
Yeah, very smart for a Navy Mega that need to move around. And no, sentry drones doesn't move.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Childstar
|
Posted - 2009.04.07 00:30:00 -
[1590]
Originally by: NightmareX
1. Still when i don't do PVP on TQ as you say i do, then i still pwned your ass in here because you was wrong and i proved you to be totally wrong About the Abaddon and the Navy Mega.
You proved nothing as i made no wrong statments, you just said i did because you are a sad little boy who cannot deal with failing.
Originally by: NightmareX
2. When i warp right into you. Then i don't think my normal t2 drones need to use time to move around to get to the primary, secondary and the next ones.
Switching targets ect causes travel time muppet.
Originally by: NightmareX
3. Yeah it only help you with a kick start on the damage from the sentry drones UNTIL you start to move to the next target that might be moving and then the sentry drones can't hit them for sh*t.
A plated webbed to hell and back BS?...they aint gonna miss.
Originally by: NightmareX
No, i use Ogre II anydays over Gardes on my Navy Mega.
Thats because in reality you do not use either..
Originally by: NightmareX
I really like to see if your sentry drones can hit anything that are moving faster than 100 m/s.
Even a mega at non webbed max speed transversal gets hit easily by gaurdes.
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.04.07 00:36:00 -
[1591]
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: NightmareX
1. Still when i don't do PVP on TQ as you say i do, then i still pwned your ass in here because you was wrong and i proved you to be totally wrong About the Abaddon and the Navy Mega.
You proved nothing as i made no wrong statments, you just said i did because you are a sad little boy who cannot deal with failing.
Originally by: NightmareX
2. When i warp right into you. Then i don't think my normal t2 drones need to use time to move around to get to the primary, secondary and the next ones.
Switching targets ect causes travel time muppet.
Originally by: NightmareX
3. Yeah it only help you with a kick start on the damage from the sentry drones UNTIL you start to move to the next target that might be moving and then the sentry drones can't hit them for sh*t.
A plated webbed to hell and back BS?...they aint gonna miss.
Originally by: NightmareX
No, i use Ogre II anydays over Gardes on my Navy Mega.
Thats because in reality you do not use either..
Originally by: NightmareX
I really like to see if your sentry drones can hit anything that are moving faster than 100 m/s.
Even a mega at non webbed max speed transversal gets hit easily by gaurdes.
1. I proved that my Navy Mega setup does 24% more DPS than your Abaddon at 4.5 km. Go back and read the calculation i did.
2. Not if most of the targets are close to us and webbed and scrambled. Have you ever heard about spreading points and web?.
3. So?, i'm still lowering my DPS by using Sentry drones.
4. I use Ogre II on TQ. I even use Ogre II's on my closer range Tempest on TQ.
Any more poor excuses and emo posts to come with?.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Childstar
|
Posted - 2009.04.07 00:41:00 -
[1592]
Originally by: NightmareX
T2 Garde does 50 thermal damage while the T2 Ogre does 48 thermal damage.
And also, with 5x Ogre II i'll do 1226 DPS in the Navy Mega with 3x damage mods, but with 5x Garde II i'll do 1209 DPS. So no, i'm not lowering my DPS by doing that.
Are you brain dead?, if by your (WRONG) figures ogres do 2 less dps per drone and use 5 how the hell do you get a reduction of 1226 to 1209???...
5 drones doing 2 less dmg each = 10 you clown..
ANYWAY YOU GOT THE BASE NUMBERS WRONG IN THE FIRST PLACE.
The correct figures after skills is:
LOL after skills OGRE T2 do 63dps each and GAURDE T2 do 60 dps each.
So you lose 15 dps as 3 dps x 5 drones = 15.
Now consider that gaurdes can hit instantly and on your mega do 300 dps vs 315 from ogres T2's but the gaurdes get at least 1 volley in before the ogres reach the first target and every time you switch the gaurdes get another volley or so.
Ogres travel at 1km per second so that 0 dmg for every km they need to travel vs 300 dmg from the gaurdes...you will never make back that 15dps using ogres..
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.04.07 00:43:00 -
[1593]
Edited by: NightmareX on 07/04/2009 00:45:19
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: NightmareX
T2 Garde does 50 thermal damage while the T2 Ogre does 48 thermal damage.
And also, with 5x Ogre II i'll do 1226 DPS in the Navy Mega with 3x damage mods, but with 5x Garde II i'll do 1209 DPS. So no, i'm not lowering my DPS by doing that.
Are you brain dead?, if by your (WRONG) figures ogres do 2 less dps per drone and use 5 how the hell do you get a reduction of 1226 to 1209???...
5 drones doing 2 less dmg each = 10 you clown..
ANYWAY YOU GOT THE BASE NUMBERS WRONG IN THE FIRST PLACE.
The correct figures after skills is:
LOL after skills OGRE T2 do 63dps each and GAURDE T2 do 60 dps each.
So you lose 15 dps as 3 dps x 5 drones = 15.
Now consider that gaurdes can hit instantly and on your mega do 300 dps vs 315 from ogres T2's but the gaurdes get at least 1 volley in before the ogres reach the first target and every time you switch the gaurdes get another volley or so.
Ogres travel at 1km per second so that 0 dmg for every km they need to travel vs 300 dmg from the gaurdes...you will never make back that 15dps using ogres..
Do not tell me i'm a clown when the EFT is the real clown here.
Oh noes, i lose 15 DPS on my Navy Mega by not using Sentry drones over Ogre II's.
Fine, then we can say my Navy Mega is doing 23% more DPS than your Abaddon with Gardes then just to round the number down to one whole number.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Childstar
|
Posted - 2009.04.07 00:54:00 -
[1594]
Originally by: NightmareX
1. I proved that my Navy Mega setup does 24% more DPS than your Abaddon at 4.5 km. Go back and read the calculation i did.
The 3 mag stab navy mega with gaurdes does 1235 dps the 3 x HS abaddon with gaurdes does 982 dps.
That is 20.5 more not 24% for a start.
Although the Abaddon has better resists so the figure is actually lower if they are shooting at each other its only around 16% more.
Originally by: NightmareX
The Navy Mega does more DPS than the Abaddon out to 11-12 km. And from there, the Abaddon starts to do more DPs than the Navy Mega.
Thats a little misleading as it only does that if its fitted with NULL so the reload from AM would gimp any figures.
But if you just had null fitted and did not need to reload the navy mega does 2.6 dps more than the abaddon with null from 0-11km.
Originally by: NightmareX
2. Not if most of the targets are close to us and webbed and scrambled. Have you ever heard about spreading points and web?.
So what?, every second your drones (-300 dps for every second/km ogres need to travel is a LOT) or ship needs to move its dps is gimped to hell using blasters and ogres...
Originally by: NightmareX
3. So?, i'm still lowering my DPS by using Sentry drones.
You do not lower your dps using gaurdes you make it much much higher in gang combat.
You are so clueless...
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Childstar
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Posted - 2009.04.07 01:06:00 -
[1595]
Edited by: Childstar on 07/04/2009 01:10:09
Originally by: NightmareX
Oh noes, i lose 15 DPS on my Navy Mega by not using Sentry drones over Ogre II's. It's really the end of the world.
You do not lose dps you gain a LOT trust me your mega is much more dangerous using gaurdes A LOT MORE dangerous.
Originally by: NightmareX
Fine, then we can say my Navy Mega is doing 23% more DPS than your Abaddon with Gardes then just to round the number down to one whole number.
Its still 21% and less (16%ish) after resists.
Originally by: NightmareX
Anyways, i'm still using Ogre II's over Garde II's on my close range Navy Mega. Because i like to have as highest possible DPS as i can get.
Then use gaurdes the ON PAPER dps of ogres is useless and misleading.
Originally by: NightmareX
And what if you have to go after a Hurricane that use his MWD a bit for example, your sentry drones can't hit that Hurricane at all then if it's moving at max speed with the MWD active. LOTS of wasted DPS then.
Also, you have to go after the Hurricane and manage to web him before you can hit him with your sentry drones. But with Ogre II's, you can hit that Hurricane long before that.
A UNWEBBED hurricane at a MAX SPEED of 1311MS with MAX transversal can easily be hit by gaurdes.
Your ogres T2's do a max speed of 1050ms btw so they can NEVER catch it if its not webbed.......
Think, check, recheck, then post...omg how many times do you need to be told you clown..
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.04.07 01:06:00 -
[1596]
Edited by: NightmareX on 07/04/2009 01:16:17
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: NightmareX
1. I proved that my Navy Mega setup does 24% more DPS than your Abaddon at 4.5 km. Go back and read the calculation i did.
The 3 mag stab navy mega with gaurdes does 1235 dps the 3 x HS abaddon with gaurdes does 982 dps.
That is 20.5 more not 24% for a start.
Although the Abaddon has better resists so the figure is actually lower if they are shooting at each other its only around 16% more.
Originally by: NightmareX
The Navy Mega does more DPS than the Abaddon out to 11-12 km. And from there, the Abaddon starts to do more DPs than the Navy Mega.
Thats a little misleading as it only does that if its fitted with NULL so the reload from AM would gimp any figures.
But if you just had null fitted and did not need to reload the navy mega does 2.6 dps more than the abaddon with null from 0-11km.
Originally by: NightmareX
2. Not if most of the targets are close to us and webbed and scrambled. Have you ever heard about spreading points and web?.
So what?, every second your drones (-300 dps for every second/km ogres need to travel is a LOT) or ship needs to move its dps is gimped to hell using blasters and ogres...
Originally by: NightmareX
3. So?, i'm still lowering my DPS by using Sentry drones.
You do not lower your dps using gaurdes you make it much much higher in gang combat.
You are so clueless...
1. 982 + 25.8% = 1235,356. Yes, it's 982 Abaddon DPS + the % more my Navy Mega does over your Abaddon, because 982 + 25.8% = 1235,356. And 1235,356 is the 1235 DPS on my Navy Mega.
The Abaddon ONLY have better resist to explosive over the Navy Mega.
2. So when my EFT says that my DPS is the best up to 12.5 km with Caldari Navy Antimatter L, then the Abaddon with AN Multis starts to do more DPS than the Navy Mega from 12.5 km and out.
Do you want a picture of it from EFT where is shows the DPS graphs just so you can see that i'm right?.
3. I don't care, It's much easier for a BS to kill some sentry drones than it is to kills some Heavy Drones. And that's also one of the reasons i'm using Heavy Drones.
4. Read what i have written over about the Sentry drones.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.04.07 01:14:00 -
[1597]
Edited by: NightmareX on 07/04/2009 01:18:25
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: NightmareX
Oh noes, i lose 15 DPS on my Navy Mega by not using Sentry drones over Ogre II's. It's really the end of the world.
You do not lose dps you gain a LOT trust me your mega is much more dangerous using gaurdes A LOT MORE dangerous.
Originally by: NightmareX
Fine, then we can say my Navy Mega is doing 23% more DPS than your Abaddon with Gardes then just to round the number down to one whole number.
Its still 21% and less (16%ish) after resists.
Originally by: NightmareX
Anyways, i'm still using Ogre II's over Garde II's on my close range Navy Mega. Because i like to have as highest possible DPS as i can get.
Then use gaurdes the ON PAPER dps of ogres is useless and misleading.
Originally by: NightmareX
And what if you have to go after a Hurricane that use his MWD a bit for example, your sentry drones can't hit that Hurricane at all then if it's moving at max speed with the MWD active. LOTS of wasted DPS then.
Also, you have to go after the Hurricane and manage to web him before you can hit him with your sentry drones. But with Ogre II's, you can hit that Hurricane long before that.
A UNWEBBED hurricane at a MAX SPEED of 1311MS with MAX transversal can easily be hit by gaurdes.
Your ogres T2's do a max speed of 1050ms btw.....
Think, check, recheck, then post...omg how many times do you need to be told you clown..
1. No it's more dangerous for me to use sentry drones when a BS can insta pop them in one volley because they don't move.
It's much harder for BS'es to kill a Heavy Drone that MOVES.
2. How do you get those numbers?. If you use the setups as i used, and then look at my math earlier, then it's 24% better DPS with Ogre II. And this topic was not about sentry drones either. We have ALWAYS talked about Ogre II drones in this topic until you saw that you was beaten, and then switched over to another types of drones just to have another poor excuse.
3. Gardes can die 10 times faster than my Ogres do. Because the gardes doesn't move, and when a BS locks it and shoot it, it goes pop in one volley.
4. Did i say he was MWDing all the time?, no i wasn't. He's going to slow down at some points anyways.
And i still use my Ogre II's over the gardes, because the Gardes is just a big instapop target to Battlecruisers and Battleships.
If you see that someone is starting to shoot your Ogre II's, then you can call them back into your drone bay. And if you have MWDed a bit from your Gardes and someone starts to shoot your Gardes, then what happens?. Yup, you lose them.
Ok a cool copy pasta under here now.
Think, check, recheck, then post...omg how many times do you need to be told you clown...
LOL is this your 789453785379387th times you have tried to prove anything without being able to be right at all?.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Childstar
|
Posted - 2009.04.07 01:19:00 -
[1598]
Originally by: NightmareX
The Abaddon ONLY have better resist to explosive over the Navy Mega.
WRONG I SUGGEST YOU RECALCULATE
You navy mega fit 156,176 EHP with 78.2em, 71.7th, 71.7ki, 60.8ex resists.
My abaddon fit has 153,822 EHP with 82.7em, 77.5th, 74ki, 72.3ex resists.
The abaddon has 4.5% more EM, 5.8% more thermal, 2.3% more kinetic, 11.5% more explosive.
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Sabrage
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Posted - 2009.04.07 01:20:00 -
[1599]
I have no idea what you guys are on about, but I'm pretty sure whoever has the most animated smileys in his/her post is right.
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.04.07 01:23:00 -
[1600]
Edited by: NightmareX on 07/04/2009 01:24:16
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: NightmareX
The Abaddon ONLY have better resist to explosive over the Navy Mega.
WRONG I SUGGEST YOU RECALCULATE
You navy mega fit 156,176 EHP with 78.2em, 71.7th, 71.7ki, 60.8ex resists.
My abaddon fit has 153,822 EHP with 82.7em, 77.5th, 74ki, 72.3ex resists.
The abaddon has 4.5% more EM, 5.8% more thermal, 2.3% more kinetic, 11.5% more explosive.
Ok yeah, your right, but i still do more DPS on you in my Navy Mega no matter what (just look at my math earlier on why i'm doing more DPS), and i still have more EHP than you.
So your point is?.
Originally by: Sabrage
I have no idea what you guys are on about, but I'm pretty sure whoever has the most animated smileys in his/her post is right.
I'm to used to MSN lol.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
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Childstar
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Posted - 2009.04.07 01:27:00 -
[1601]
Originally by: NightmareX
1. No it's more dangerous for me to use sentry drones when a BS can insta pop them in one volley because they don't move.
So you think in a RR BS GANG VS GANG FIGHT ppl will be targeting your drones?...wtf are you on?.
Originally by: NightmareX
How do you get those numbers?. If you use the setups as i used, and then look at my math earlier, then it's 24% better DPS with Ogre II. And this topic was not about sentry drones either. We have ALWAYS talked about Ogre II drones in this topic until you saw that you was beaten, and then switched over to another types of drones just to have another poor excuse.
More lies...,i have always used sentry drones in my calculations as they are better.
Originally by: NightmareX
4. Did i say he was MWDing all the time?, no i wasn't. He's going to slow down at some points anyways.
The gaurdes can hit him while he is mwding, your ogres cannot even catch him.......and you said it was the total oposite and the gaurdes would miss and the ogres hit you total clown...
Originally by: NightmareX
And i still use my Ogre II's over the gardes, because the Gardes is just a big instapop target to Battlecruisers and Battleships.
Nobody shoots drones in a gang fight and also gaurdes are less likely to be hit by a smart bomber if there ever is one as they do not apporach........
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Childstar
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Posted - 2009.04.07 01:34:00 -
[1602]
Edited by: Childstar on 07/04/2009 01:36:16
Originally by: NightmareX
Edited by: NightmareX on 07/04/2009 01:24:16
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: NightmareX
The Abaddon ONLY have better resist to explosive over the Navy Mega.
WRONG I SUGGEST YOU RECALCULATE
You navy mega fit 156,176 EHP with 78.2em, 71.7th, 71.7ki, 60.8ex resists.
My abaddon fit has 153,822 EHP with 82.7em, 77.5th, 74ki, 72.3ex resists.
The abaddon has 4.5% more EM, 5.8% more thermal, 2.3% more kinetic, 11.5% more explosive.
Ok yeah, your right, but i still do more DPS on you in my Navy Mega no matter what (just look at my math earlier on why i'm doing more DPS), and i still have more EHP than you.
I already did the calculations about how much dmg the mega does hours and hours ago and i have told you and given you the numbers of the posts with them in once already (post 1555)....,are you mental or summat?..
The 3 mag stab navy mega does the same raw DPS as the 3 mag stab standard mega.
But the navy mega has 2354 more EHP than the abaddon but lower resists...
It also would suck massivly in gang combat cos it would always be primaried being a faction BS....
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
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Posted - 2009.04.07 01:35:00 -
[1603]
Edited by: NightmareX on 07/04/2009 01:35:41
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: NightmareX
1. No it's more dangerous for me to use sentry drones when a BS can insta pop them in one volley because they don't move.
So you think in a RR BS GANG VS GANG FIGHT ppl will be targeting your drones?...wtf are you on?.
Originally by: NightmareX
How do you get those numbers?. If you use the setups as i used, and then look at my math earlier, then it's 24% better DPS with Ogre II. And this topic was not about sentry drones either. We have ALWAYS talked about Ogre II drones in this topic until you saw that you was beaten, and then switched over to another types of drones just to have another poor excuse.
More lies...,i have always used sentry drones in my calculations as they are better.
Originally by: NightmareX
4. Did i say he was MWDing all the time?, no i wasn't. He's going to slow down at some points anyways.
The gaurdes can hit him while he is mwding, your ogres cannot even catch him.......and you said it was the total oposite and the gaurdes would miss and the ogres hit you total clown...
Originally by: NightmareX
And i still use my Ogre II's over the gardes, because the Gardes is just a big instapop target to Battlecruisers and Battleships.
Nobody shoots drones in a gang fight and also gaurdes are less likely to be hit by a smart bomber if there ever is one as they do not apporach........
1. Yes they can, just to nerf you DPS overall in the fight. Lost sentry drones is lost DPS for the rest of the fight.
2. It's only in the last few pages you have started to use sentry drones. Why didn't you use them from the start of this topic when you did know they was better?.
Yeah they are better for you that use an Abaddon, but i don't risk to lose my sentry drones to smartbomb ships or other ships that have drones on my sentry drones. So that's why i'm using Heavy Drones to be sure that i can manage to have the drones in the whole fight. Remember, having the drones in the whole fight is seriously going to do alot more DPS than the sentry drones that only lived for 2.3 mins lol.
3. Yeah they can, but if the Gardes are already dead, then they wont do any DPS at all heh.
4. I would shoot your Sentry drones with my own Heavy Drones to just nerf your DPS alot in the rest of the fight.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Childstar
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Posted - 2009.04.07 01:41:00 -
[1604]
Originally by: NightmareX
1. Yes they can, just to nerf you DPS overall in the fight. Lost sentry drones is lost DPS for the rest of the fight.
Great, so while your gang is losing ships (meaning the gun and drone dps per ship lost is gone) you will be killing drones only?...
Originally by: NightmareX
2. It's only in the last few pages you have started to use sentry drones. Why didn't you use them from the start of this topic when you did know they was better?.
I have always used them in my DPS calculations, check back if you do not believe me.
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
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Posted - 2009.04.07 01:41:00 -
[1605]
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: NightmareX
Edited by: NightmareX on 07/04/2009 01:24:16
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: NightmareX
The Abaddon ONLY have better resist to explosive over the Navy Mega.
WRONG I SUGGEST YOU RECALCULATE
You navy mega fit 156,176 EHP with 78.2em, 71.7th, 71.7ki, 60.8ex resists.
My abaddon fit has 153,822 EHP with 82.7em, 77.5th, 74ki, 72.3ex resists.
The abaddon has 4.5% more EM, 5.8% more thermal, 2.3% more kinetic, 11.5% more explosive.
Ok yeah, your right, but i still do more DPS on you in my Navy Mega no matter what (just look at my math earlier on why i'm doing more DPS), and i still have more EHP than you.
I already did the calculations about how much dmg the mega does hours and hours ago and i have told you and given you the numbers of the posts with them in once already....,are you mental or summat?..
The 3 mag stab navy mega does the same raw DPS as the 3 mag stab standard mega.
But the navy mega has 2354 more EHP than the abaddon but lower resists...
It also would suck massivly in gang combat cos it would always be primaried being a faction BS....
1. Yeah it was with Gardes. I used Ogres. Happy?.
You choose to use Gardes while i choose to use Ogres.
2. Yeah, and the point with that reply was to prove what?.
3. Yeah my Navy Mega have lower resists, but still do more DPS on your Abaddon after the resists to, and still have 2354 more EHP than you.
And you point is?. Even when you have a little more resists than me, your not doing any better than my Navy Mega up to 12.5 km dude.
4. Like i have said, it can be used as a bait ship so the rest of the gang know who to RR right away. And it's a very nice ship to use if you like to get shoot alot and to have most action as possible. How many times have i actually told you this now lol?.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
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Posted - 2009.04.07 01:48:00 -
[1606]
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: NightmareX
1. Yes they can, just to nerf you DPS overall in the fight. Lost sentry drones is lost DPS for the rest of the fight.
Great, so while your gang is losing ships (meaning the gun and drone dps per ship lost is gone) you will be killing drones only?...
Originally by: NightmareX
2. It's only in the last few pages you have started to use sentry drones. Why didn't you use them from the start of this topic when you did know they was better?.
I have always used them in my DPS calculations, check back if you do not believe me.
1. I think this is better to do. To kill most of your sentry drones right away to just lower your DPS drasticly in the beginning of the fight. And then tank you with RR until we have killed off your sentry drones, and then start killing you with massive DPS because we still have our Heavy Drones and while your DPS sucks ass.
2. Whatever you say, i don't use Sentry drones because of some very bad things that can happen with them in PVP.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Childstar
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Posted - 2009.04.07 01:49:00 -
[1607]
Edited by: Childstar on 07/04/2009 01:48:46
Originally by: NightmareX
3. Yeah my Navy Mega have lower resists, but still do more DPS on your Abaddon after the resists to, and still have 2354 more EHP than you.
580-600 mil for a ship that does the same raw dps as the standard mega and has only 2354 more EHP than the baddon along with a bulls eye painted on it is a joke.
Originally by: NightmareX
4. Like i have said, it can be used as a bait ship so the rest of the gang know who to RR right away. And it's a very nice ship to use if you like to get shoot alot and to have most action as possible. How many times have i actually told you this now lol?.
Its a crappy bait ship the way you have it fitted, 154k ehp on a bait navy mega is bloody awful, its nothing but a lossmail waiting to happen and the only use for it is for a fool like you in this thread to use as a paper tiger stat ship.
But in practical terms its a waste of isk.
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Childstar
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Posted - 2009.04.07 01:53:00 -
[1608]
Edited by: Childstar on 07/04/2009 01:55:10
Originally by: NightmareX
1. I think this is better to do. To kill most of your sentry drones right away to just lower your DPS drasticly in the beginning of the fight.
Really so in a RR BS gang v gang combat you will be locking drones (loooooooooong lock time) and popping them while i pop your ships (losing you drone AND gun dps as well as a RR for every loss?....)?.
I suggest you log in to TQ right now and tell your alliance buddies your idea......i hope it gives them as much lulz as it did me...
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
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Posted - 2009.04.07 01:57:00 -
[1609]
Edited by: NightmareX on 07/04/2009 01:59:29
Originally by: Childstar
Edited by: Childstar on 07/04/2009 01:48:46
Originally by: NightmareX
3. Yeah my Navy Mega have lower resists, but still do more DPS on your Abaddon after the resists to, and still have 2354 more EHP than you.
580-600 mil for a ship that does the same raw dps as the standard mega and has only 2354 more EHP than the baddon along with a bulls eye painted on it is a joke.
Originally by: NightmareX
4. Like i have said, it can be used as a bait ship so the rest of the gang know who to RR right away. And it's a very nice ship to use if you like to get shoot alot and to have most action as possible. How many times have i actually told you this now lol?.
Its a crappy bait ship the way you have it fitted, 154k ehp on a bait navy mega is bloody awful, its nothing but a lossmail waiting to happen and the only use for it is for a fool like you in this thread to use as a paper tiger stat ship.
But in practical terms its a waste of isk.
1. Hmmm, maybe we can say the Abaddon is really overpowered because of this. Hah, Nerf the Abaddon lol.
Meh, i'll gladly pays 300 mill alone just for the looks of the Navy Mega.
2. LOL, my Navy Mega on TQ have waaaaay more than 154k EHP on TQ in a gang with armor bonuses. This is ofc when i have the LG Slave set fitted.
My Navy Mega setup on TQ have 295k EHP with a LG Slave set and with armor hp gang bunuses.
I will call it a great bait ship.
And also, the t2 fitted Navy Mega with 3x Coreli ANP's are not a bait ship, it's a pure DPS ship.
Originally by: Childstar
Edited by: Childstar on 07/04/2009 01:55:10
Originally by: NightmareX
1. I think this is better to do. To kill most of your sentry drones right away to just lower your DPS drasticly in the beginning of the fight.
Really so in a RR BS gang v gang combat you will be locking drones (loooooooooong lock time) and popping them while i pop your ships (losing you drone AND gun dps as well as a RR for every loss?....)?.
I suggest you log in to TQ right now and tell your alliance buddies your idea......i hope it gives them as much lulz as it did me...
And, we still lock them and at some point get a lock on them and can kill them easily.
And i suggest that you stop making you look like a fool now, because atm your trying all to try and make the Abaddon look any better, when it can't with the setups we have used on the ships here.
You better stop before you look even more..........yeah, i wont say more.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Childstar
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Posted - 2009.04.07 02:08:00 -
[1610]
Originally by: NightmareX
Meh, i'll gladly pays 300 mill alone just for the looks of the Navy Mega.
2. LOL, my Navy Mega on TQ have waaaaay more than 154k EHP on TQ in a gang with armor bonuses. This is ofc when i have the LG Slave set fitted.
My Navy Mega setup on TQ have 295k EHP with a LG Slave set and with armor hp gang bunuses.
I will call it a great bait ship.
A proper bait navy mega should not fit dmg mods at all it should firstly fit for as much ehp and resists as it can pack into its lows, then a injector/mwd combo.
After that its what ever else you can get on it cos jumping into a camp and doing a mwd turn back to the gate ect and soaking up dmg to give aggro so your gang can jump in and kill then jumping out is one of its jobs.
In a RR gang the same applies only it soaks up and gets repped, but should always be looking for a way out in case its tank starts to break.
Originally by: NightmareX
And also, the t2 fitted Navy Mega with 3x Coreli ANP's are not a bait ship, it's a pure DPS ship.
Its not a dps ship as it does the same dps as a standard mega, its a loss mail waiting to happen.
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Childstar
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Posted - 2009.04.07 02:11:00 -
[1611]
Originally by: NightmareX
yeah, i wont say more.
Best idea you have had since you joined this thread.
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
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Posted - 2009.04.07 02:18:00 -
[1612]
Edited by: NightmareX on 07/04/2009 02:22:48
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: NightmareX
Meh, i'll gladly pays 300 mill alone just for the looks of the Navy Mega.
2. LOL, my Navy Mega on TQ have waaaaay more than 154k EHP on TQ in a gang with armor bonuses. This is ofc when i have the LG Slave set fitted.
My Navy Mega setup on TQ have 295k EHP with a LG Slave set and with armor hp gang bunuses.
I will call it a great bait ship.
A proper bait navy mega should not fit dmg mods at all it should firstly fit for as much ehp and resists as it can pack into its lows, then a injector/mwd combo.
After that its what ever else you can get on it cos jumping into a camp and doing a mwd turn back to the gate ect and soaking up dmg to give aggro so your gang can jump in and kill then jumping out is one of its jobs.
In a RR gang the same applies only it soaks up and gets repped, but should always be looking for a way out in case its tank starts to break.
Originally by: NightmareX
And also, the t2 fitted Navy Mega with 3x Coreli ANP's are not a bait ship, it's a pure DPS ship.
Its not a dps ship as it does the same dps as a standard mega, its a loss mail waiting to happen.
1. A proper Navy Mega fit should not ONLY be bait fitted. It should have ALOT of EHP while it can do great DPS. Because after all, your gonna use your 7 guns to something to.
2. Heh, have you seen what Darknesss have done with his Navy Mega in empire against the Privateer alliance?. No you haven't.
He was the primary for 90% of the priv gang, but he was RR'ed and had so much EHP that they managed to kill most of their ships before Darknesss even did hit Structure. And his Navy Mega have around the same EHP as my Navy Mega.
Yes i was in D00M and Triumvirate. when he did that.
3. The normal Mega doesn't have EHP enough to be a bait **** with 3x MFS II's anyways, so it's better to be used as a DPS ship then.
But when you look at the Navy Mega, it actually have so much EHP that it's rather more fit for alot of EHP and still do some good DPS'es. Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: NightmareX
yeah, i wont say more.
Best idea you have had since you joined this thread.
Did you had any better ideas to come with in this topic at all?. No wait, you haven't had a good idea at all in this topic so far. All have been very poor and crappy with some poor explanations in most of your replies.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Traderboz
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Posted - 2009.04.07 04:17:00 -
[1613]
Originally by: Childstar
Really so in a RR BS gang v gang combat you will be locking drones (loooooooooong lock time) and popping them while i pop your ships (losing you drone AND gun dps as well as a RR for every loss?....)?.
IMO you guys should each get a small RR gang and fight it out (on TQ) to settle this. I'd love to see a Team NMX calling primary on Garde's... hell, you could sell tickets, maybe even make a profit (unless Team NMX all flies Navy Mega).
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Mag's
the united
Negative Ten.
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Posted - 2009.04.07 09:06:00 -
[1614]
OMG Electric Universe NightmareX, just when I think you've posted the funniest thing ever, you come up with another gem.
Never stop posting.
Regards
Mag |
Childstar
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Posted - 2009.04.07 09:44:00 -
[1615]
Originally by: NightmareX
1. A proper Navy Mega fit should not ONLY be bait fitted. It should have ALOT of EHP while it can do great DPS. Because after all, your gonna use your 7 guns to something to.
Its first and primary role is to soak up dmg, its dmg output is secondary.
Originally by: NightmareX
3. The normal Mega doesn't have EHP enough to be a bait ship with 3x MFS II's anyways, so it's better to be used as a DPS ship then.
The navy mega does not have enough EHP with 3 mag stabs to be a good bait ship either, unless you are baitiung VERY small gangs...
Originally by: NightmareX
Did you had any better ideas to come with in this topic at all?. No wait, you haven't had a good idea at all in this topic so far. All have been very poor and crappy with some poor explanations in most of your replies.
You have done nothing in this thread but troll and look like a total and clueless idiot, you have lost argument after argument and changed your pitch from normal megas in gang combat, to RR gang combat and now you are trying to pich your crap with navy megas.
And every time all you manage to do is look even more stupid, clueless and trolly.
This thread is about BS blaster ships that are used on TQ, so mostly standard megas and hyperions and unless you have any worthwile comments about them stfu and go troll elsewhere..
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Childstar
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Posted - 2009.04.07 10:06:00 -
[1616]
Originally by: Mag's
OMG Electric Universe NightmareX, just when I think you've posted the funniest thing ever, you come up with another gem.
Never stop posting.
He does post some gems but THIS i think is the crown jewel.
Originally by: NightmareX
No you don't have control of the fight in FFA 1 on sisi either. Like right now, the Abaddon i tried got massivly spanked by 10 frigs, 2x t3 cruisers and a Rook on sisi in FFA 1. And the next mega i warped in there, and the Mega after that to.
Guess what i did, yes i did bring in a new battleship with ECCM after some tries and then they couldn't jam me much and i managed to kill some of them and they started to lose there and the rest warped out. Victory for me there i'll guess.
How is that's not like it is on TQ, if not, then i don't know what you take as most realistic TQ fights.
So cos of jumping into the middile of a 14 man gang and losing 3 BS on the trot is how "real" pvp is done on TQ?....by r****rds maybe...
Then making up a silly story about fitting ECCM and pwning to try and sooth a well spanked bottom is just sad TBH.......in the delusion were they mid slot eccm....did you drop your web, point, mwd, or injector?....
Why did the cruisers and frigs get within web range then sit still in that range long enough for a slow ass BS to kill them?.
Why are you such a sad and pathetic liar?...
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
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Posted - 2009.04.07 10:27:00 -
[1617]
Edited by: NightmareX on 07/04/2009 10:35:41
Originally by: Childstar
Edited by: Childstar on 07/04/2009 10:20:21
Originally by: Mag's
OMG Electric Universe NightmareX, just when I think you've posted the funniest thing ever, you come up with another gem.
Never stop posting.
He does post some gems but THIS i think is the crown jewel.
Originally by: NightmareX
No you don't have control of the fight in FFA 1 on sisi either. Like right now, the Abaddon i tried got massivly spanked by 10 frigs, 2x t3 cruisers and a Rook on sisi in FFA 1. And the next mega i warped in there, and the Mega after that to.
Guess what i did, yes i did bring in a new battleship with ECCM after some tries and then they couldn't jam me much and i managed to kill some of them and they started to lose there and the rest warped out. Victory for me there i'll guess.
How is that's not like it is on TQ, if not, then i don't know what you take as most realistic TQ fights.
So jumping into the middile of a 13 man gang and losing 3 BS on the trot is how "real" pvp is done on TQ?........by r******s maybe...
Then making up a silly story about fitting ECCM and pwning to try and sooth a well spanked bottom is just sad TBH.......in the delusion were they mid slot eccm....did you drop your web, point, mwd, or injector in your dream of victory?....
What explanation do you give in your delusion for the cruisers and frigs get within web range and then just sit still in that range long enough for a slow ass BS to kill them?.
Why are you such a sad and pathetic liar?...
Awesome dude, maybe you should look some posts back where you already replied to what you replied to now?.
Aww, memory problems lol?.
Anyways. No matter what you say, my Navy Mega with 3x damage mods does 24% more DPS than your Mega with Ogre II's and still have more EHP, so i'll guess it's a more DPS and EHP ship than the Abaddon anyways.
Hmmm, you should really find another reply from me to quote the 2nd and maybe 3rd time so you have something more to whine over.
Anyways, about the Abaddon i tested on sisi in FFA 1. Yes, i still killed a t3 cruiser and like 4 other frigs and one normal t1 cruiser for my 3 BS losses there. I would call that for priceless.
Originally by: Mag's
OMG Electric Universe NightmareX, just when I think you've posted the funniest thing ever, you come up with another gem.
Never stop posting.
LOL, and your point with this post was to..........?????????????.
Yes i know what the point is. The point is that you don't know **** what to say other than yeah me Mag's are awesome because i write it here, and this poast is teh cool. So your the noob NightmareX.
Yeah that was a very very well explained post dude lol.
EDIT: Also Mag's, i think the player that is called Rivur'Tam, that is in the same corp as you are in can pretty much agree with me that the Blaster Mega, Blaster Navy Mega and eventually the Kronos is the most awesome RR gang BS'es today.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Childstar
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Posted - 2009.04.07 10:41:00 -
[1618]
Edited by: Childstar on 07/04/2009 10:46:24
Originally by: NightmareX
Awesome dude, maybe you should look some posts back where you already replied to what you replied to now?.
Aww, memory problems lol?.
I have no memory problems, you were a liar then you are a liar now its that simple.
Originally by: NightmareX
Anyways. No matter what you say, my Navy Mega with 3x damage mods does 24% more DPS than your Mega with Ogre II's and still have more EHP, so i'll guess it's a more DPS and EHP ship than the Abaddon anyways.
For your 600 million.
1. The same DPS as the standard mega with 3 mag stabs.
2. 2354 more EHP is just sad.
3. ALL weaker resists than my abaddon fit.
4. Insta primary and melt cos of being a faction ship.
Your navy mega fit sucks for TQ pvp, its a paper tiger fit for losers who never pvp in reality.
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
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Posted - 2009.04.07 10:49:00 -
[1619]
Edited by: NightmareX on 07/04/2009 10:52:34
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: NightmareX
Awesome dude, maybe you should look some posts back where you already replied to what you replied to now?.
Aww, memory problems lol?.
I have no memory problems, you were a liar then you are a liar now its that simple.
Originally by: NightmareX
Anyways. No matter what you say, my Navy Mega with 3x damage mods does 24% more DPS than your Mega with Ogre II's and still have more EHP, so i'll guess it's a more DPS and EHP ship than the Abaddon anyways.
1. The same DPS as the standard mega with 3 mag stabs.
2. 2354 more EHP for 600 million is just sad.
3. ALL weaker resists than my abaddon fit.
4. Insta primary and melt cos of being a faction ship.
Your navy mega fit sucks for TQ pvp, its a paper tiger fit for losers who never pvp in reality.
Link to the proofs where i'm a liar?.
Ehm i rather made you the liar, because i did proove you wrong earlier in this topic. So you was lying. Because you was telling that your Abaddon did more DPS than my Navy Mega, and you was totally wrong like i always said.
I did give you the proofs that the Navy Mega does more DPS than the Abaddon up to 12.5 km with Caldari Navy Antimatter L ammo.
Wanna give me the maths again to proove that i'm wrong?.
1. Yeah, and if the DPS had been the same as a Nyx, then what?, it's still 1226 DPS no matter what ship you try to compare it to.
2. 300 mill isk of those 600 mill isk is easily paid only for the looks of the Navy Mega. So do i care?.
3. And your point is?. I still have more EHP than you so booohoo, cry some more.
4. A Navy Mega will not be melted if it's properly fitted. And that is when the Navy Mega isn't fitted with the uber fail fit with 3x damage mods. Any Battleship today that are an armor shipis is best to use 1 or 2 max damage mods anyways.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Childstar
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Posted - 2009.04.07 11:04:00 -
[1620]
Originally by: NightmareX
Link to the proofs where i'm a liar?.
link to proof your not.
Originally by: NightmareX
1. Yeah, and if the DPS had been the same as a Nyx, then what?, it's still 1226 DPS no matter what ship you try to compare it to.
Yes exactly the same as the standard mega...and you 500 mil more...
Originally by: NightmareX
2. 300 mill isk of those 600 mill isk is easily paid only for the looks of the Navy Mega. So do i care?.
LOL just LOL.
Originally by: NightmareX
3. And your point is?. I still have more EHP than you so booohoo, cry some more.
2354 more EHP for 500 more million....= LOL.
Originally by: NightmareX
4. A Navy Mega will not be melted if it's properly fitted. And that is when the Navy Mega isn't fitted with the uber fail fit with 3x damage mods.
At least you admit your silly fit is FAIL...progress at last..
Originally by: NightmareX
Any Battleship today that are an armor shipis is best to use 1 or 2 max damage mods anyways.
The abaddon can easily fit 3 dmg mods and operate well due to the fact it can work at longer range than all the other races BS as well as the fact its not a faction ship so will not be insta primaried.
Im not saying your navy mega has a bad tank on paper compared to standard BS cos its a good tank if it was on a normal BS, its just that cos its a faction BS it will get insta primaried as well as costing around 600mil.
If you could get the EHP stats on your blaster rr navy mega on a blaster rr standard mega or at least close to them without spending tonnes of isk (roughly the same cost as my abaddon fit) that would make the standards mega a more reasonable gang ship considering the range it needs to operate in.
Roughly the same EHP as the abaddon but much less range due to blasters would be at least a little more balanced for gang combat. And if ppl still chose to fit rails then the reduced DPS from them would also balance things.
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Gevic
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Posted - 2009.04.07 11:08:00 -
[1621]
Edited by: Gevic on 07/04/2009 11:09:27
You folks do know that this entire thread doesn't really further the case for or against changing blasters? Any dev looking at this thread is just going to see that 90% of the posts consists of bickering and bantering b/w NightmareX and Childstar and their respective alts.
It would probably be best if someone made a new topic and both of you just agreed to stick to ****ting up this thread. Or if both of you stopped posting. Forever.
Edit: I spel and grammers gud.
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Childstar
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Posted - 2009.04.07 11:08:00 -
[1622]
Originally by: NightmareX
Because you was telling that your Abaddon did more DPS than my Navy Mega, and you was totally wrong like i always said.
I did not say that, i clearly posted the exact raw dps figures from each ship and how much they hit each other for after resists.
Originally by: NightmareX
I did give you the proofs that the Navy Mega does more DPS than the Abaddon up to 12.5 km with Caldari Navy Antimatter L ammo.
You gave no proof, you just "claimed" it did with 0 proof or math to back it up.
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Mag's
the united
Negative Ten.
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Posted - 2009.04.07 11:11:00 -
[1623]
Originally by: NightmareX
EDIT: Also Mag's, i think the player that is called Rivur'Tam, that is in the same corp as you are in can pretty much agree with me that the Gallente BS'es and eventually the Kronos is the most awesome RR gang BS'es today.
I'm glad you think you know him, but you'll find he spends most of his time in the Devoter.
The Kronos is a great blasterboat, the reason is clear, but it's not for regular use. On TQ that is.
Never stop posting Electric Universe NightmareX, it's pure entertainment.
Regards
Mag |
Cohkka
Celestial Apocalypse
death from above..
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Posted - 2009.04.07 11:32:00 -
[1624]
Originally by: Gevic
Edited by: Gevic on 07/04/2009 11:09:27
You folks do know that this entire thread doesn't really further the case for or against changing blasters? Any dev looking at this thread is just going to see that 90% of the posts consists of bickering and bantering b/w NightmareX and Childstar and their respective alts.
It would probably be best if someone made a new topic and both of you just agreed to stick to ****ting up this thread. Or if both of you stopped posting. Forever.
Edit: I spel and grammers gud.
That's not going to happen. Even when you open up multiple threads about blasters AND minmatar BS, Nightmare will just skip sleeping in order to maintain a 100% forum presence. It's not a big deal after all, he has just to skip eating and ****ing to maintain this thread in between all his RL commitments.
Don't speak english, just F5, F5, F5... |
Childstar
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Posted - 2009.04.07 11:39:00 -
[1625]
Edited by: Childstar on 07/04/2009 11:41:10
At 12.5km the navy mega does 703 raw gun dps.
As you insist on using ogre T2's that travel at 1050ms max speed the 317 dps from them is delayed for at least 13 seconds as they accelerate and travel 12.5km so you lose (4121 raw dps for that travel time).......its gonna take you a while to make that up at 15dps (around 5 mins)...
At 12.5km the abaddon does 982 raw dps as i use gaurde T2 that give instant dmg.
The navy mega hits the abaddon at 12.5km for 172.43 gun dmg after resists.
The abaddon hits the navy mega at 12.5km for 247.66 dmg after resists.
Even when your drones eventually arrive the navy mega does less DPS at 12.5km than the abaddon after resists.
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GTC seller72
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Posted - 2009.04.07 12:01:00 -
[1626]
Edited by: GTC seller72 on 07/04/2009 12:02:28
Originally by: Cohkka
Originally by: Gevic
Edited by: Gevic on 07/04/2009 11:09:27
You folks do know that this entire thread doesn't really further the case for or against changing blasters? Any dev looking at this thread is just going to see that 90% of the posts consists of bickering and bantering b/w NightmareX and Childstar and their respective alts.
It would probably be best if someone made a new topic and both of you just agreed to stick to ****ting up this thread. Or if both of you stopped posting. Forever.
Edit: I spel and grammers gud.
That's not going to happen. Even when you open up multiple threads about blasters AND minmatar BS, Nightmare will just skip sleeping in order to maintain a 100% forum presence. It's not a big deal after all, he has just to skip eating and ****ing to maintain this thread in between all his RL commitments.
Other than being a totally obsessive troll i cannot understand why NMX is doing it can you?.
I mean his faction fits and faction ships are never used in regular pvp ops on TQ, his ideas about how pvp is on TQ is so one dimentional and personalised to suit what ever he wants to try and claim that he is clearly making it up and has no real experiance in it.
I honestly think their is something seriously and mentally wrong with him as he is totally pathalogical on here, the mods would be doing him a big favor banning him and then his alts when he starts using them instead.
NMX with all due respect you need to stop now and maybe even get professional help.
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Kunming
T.H.U.G L.I.F.E
White Core
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Posted - 2009.04.07 14:31:00 -
[1627]
K i havent read the 51 pages!
BUT.. I keep repeating myself on the subject: Increase blaster DMG by a large margin so its worthwile fitting them.
Blaters can be considered melee weapons, and in any game melee weapons have very high dmg to compensate traveling to the target and being exposed to all sorts of harm.
Now B-boats dont have the highest ECM resistance, nor the highest armor or shields, they arent the fastest either (infact they can be considered slow). In a realistic fitting you emphisize on covering one of its weakness, which in the end gives you more disadvatages in another field. So all that the blaster-boats have going for them is high DMG which isnt that high in the end.
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Quantum Rise... nerfing the unnerfable! Sponsored by CCP |
Kane Starkiller
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Posted - 2009.04.07 14:34:00 -
[1628]
This thread is still going on?
Blasters were nerfed a while ago, get over it!
Get a date, get laid, or play something else but for god's sake stop whining!
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Goumindong
Amarr
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.04.07 15:50:00 -
[1629]
Originally by: Childstar
The abaddon hits the mega harder by 42.82 dps that is 14.6% MORE.
No, it doesn't the Mega in question has 8k more armor, 40% more than the Abaddon in question. In addition to the rest of the hit point disparities that means that the Mega is more efficient in this situation.
As more guns are dropped for more reps[or drones are dropped for reps], the mega gets even more efficient in comparison to the Abaddon.
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Childstar
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Posted - 2009.04.07 16:15:00 -
[1630]
Originally by: Goumindong
No, it doesn't the Mega in question has 8k more armor, 40% more than the Abaddon in question.
You will need to be a bit more specific.
Originally by: Goumindong
In addition to the rest of the hit point disparities that means that the Mega is more efficient in this situation.
I dunno what you mean by "the rest of the hit point disparities" when the abaddon has MORE hull HP than the mega (DCU give 60% res vs all dmg on both ships hull) and MORE shield HP, with the abad doing EM/TH dmg against shields.....
Still trying to use big words and vague comments to manipulate ppl gourmie?....you never learn.
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Liang Nuren
No Salvation
PuPPet MasTers
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Posted - 2009.04.07 16:30:00 -
[1631]
Originally by: Goumindong
No, it doesn't the Mega in question has 8k more armor, 40% more than the Abaddon in question. In addition to the rest of the hit point disparities that means that the Mega is more efficient in this situation.
As more guns are dropped for more reps[or drones are dropped for reps], the mega gets even more efficient in comparison to the Abaddon.
What are you on about Goum - the more reps there are, the more efficient the Abaddons get. For an equal investment in both ships, it's ridiculously easy to set up the Abaddon fleet to wtfpwnbbq the Navy Mega fleet. It's RR effectiveness is almost twice what the Mega gets, and has the bonus of more ranged dps.
TBQFH, this entire discussion is useless because it doesn't address operational realities on TQ. You just don't fly triple MFS blaster megas (of any variety) in RR fleets. You're doomed to fail from the moment you fit the ship. Fit rails. Fit heavy boosters. Fit lots of resist/hp tank. Fit a large RR or two. Fit ECCM. Fit SeBo. Maybe, maybe fit a damage mod or two if you've got a metric crap-ton of HP.
-Liang
--
Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
www.kwikdeath.org |
Childstar
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Posted - 2009.04.07 16:36:00 -
[1632]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
TBQFH, this entire discussion is useless because it doesn't address operational realities on TQ. You just don't fly triple MFS blaster megas (of any variety) in RR fleets. You're doomed to fail from the moment you fit the ship. Fit rails. Fit heavy boosters. Fit lots of resist/hp tank. Fit a large RR or two. Fit ECCM. Fit SeBo. Maybe, maybe fit a damage mod or two if you've got a metric crap-ton of HP.
-Liang
Well at least somebody actually knows how to fit a RR mega properly.....although its still not particularly good and also shows just how poor blaster BS are (for those who remember what the topic is actually about).
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Gevic
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Posted - 2009.04.07 16:38:00 -
[1633]
Edited by: Gevic on 07/04/2009 16:38:38
Oh God, Godongs is here now. The final seal has been broken.
Leave blasters alone, ban CantStopPostingX from the forums (and SiSi) and give Childstar probation for continuously feeding him =p.
C/D ?
P.S. Dev's already said that they were going to look at blasterboats and determine if they need a change or not in another thread. I am afraid to post where cause those two will just move over their and **** up that thread too.
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Goumindong
Amarr
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.04.08 03:47:00 -
[1634]
Edited by: Goumindong on 08/04/2009 03:51:10
Edited by: Goumindong on 08/04/2009 03:49:54
Originally by: Liang Nuren
What are you on about Goum - the more reps there are, the more efficient the Abaddons get. For an equal investment in both ships, it's ridiculously easy to set up the Abaddon fleet to wtfpwnbbq the Navy Mega fleet. It's RR effectiveness is almost twice what the Mega gets, and has the bonus of more ranged dps.
-Liang
No, the more reps the more guns the Abaddon loses in comparison to the Mega(which is relying more on drone DPS), the more guns the abaddon loses the more its DPS drops. The slight advantage in resistance is not offset by the drop in DPS.
As well, the lower number of armor hit points means the chances of volleying through armor are much higher on the Abaddon.
edit: don't know why you're discussing a navy mega, the normal mega is plenty fine for RR in this manner.
Quote:
You just don't fly triple MFS blaster megas (of any variety) in RR fleets
No one was suggesting it. The guy was claiming that a 3 HS abaddon was better than the 2 MFS mega, i was explaining why its not true.
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Liang Nuren
No Salvation
PuPPet MasTers
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Posted - 2009.04.08 04:28:00 -
[1635]
Originally by: Goumindong
edit: don't know why you're discussing a navy mega, the normal mega is plenty fine for RR in this manner.
Quote:
You just don't fly triple MFS blaster megas (of any variety) in RR fleets
No one was suggesting it. The guy was claiming that a 3 HS abaddon was better than the 2 MFS mega, i was explaining why its not true.
Did you bother reading the thread or are you doing the usual and just talking out your ass? It most certainly was suggested in earnest by the only blaster proponent here. Furthermore, as I mentioned, any talk of 'blasters' in the same sentence as 'RR gang' should be heavily discouraged except insomuch as to say don't do it!
-Liang
--
Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
www.kwikdeath.org |
Goumindong
Amarr
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.04.08 04:43:00 -
[1636]
Maybe you are the one who should be reading the thread... That i was responding to a post 5 pages ago and not responding to Nightmare x should have been pretty apparent to those paying attention for the last 20 or so pages.
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Liang Nuren
No Salvation
PuPPet MasTers
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Posted - 2009.04.08 04:53:00 -
[1637]
Originally by: Goumindong
Maybe you are the one who should be reading the thread... That i was responding to a post 5 pages ago and not responding to Nightmare x should have been pretty apparent to those paying attention for the last 20 or so pages.
Maybe you should look at which posts you quoted and the context in which it was quoted. You most certainly were responding to 'contemporary' posts, and 'contemporary' posts are making reference to the Navy Mega. Which you directly mentioned. Don't try to bull**** me son.
-Liang
--
Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
www.kwikdeath.org |
Traderboz
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Posted - 2009.04.08 04:57:00 -
[1638]
There are way too many fits in this thread (many of them loltastic) for anyone to know what specific fit other people are referring to.
I personally had nfc what fit(s) you guys are referring to, but hopefully it doesn't have a medium cap booster and a RR on it.
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Childstar
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Posted - 2009.04.08 11:55:00 -
[1639]
Edited by: Childstar on 08/04/2009 12:03:48
Originally by: Goumindong
No one was suggesting it. The guy was claiming that a 3 HS abaddon was better than the 2 MFS mega, i was explaining why its not true.
The discussion was about DPS and how claims of "30% MORE DMG FROM BLASTERS THAN LASERS" that liars like YOU preach about every time ppl try to fix blasters and especially BS blasters is totally wrong given available and contemporary fits.
Originally by: Goumindong
As well, the lower number of armor hit points means the chances of volleying through armor are much higher on the Abaddon.
The abaddon can fit 2 x 1600 plates and a eanm for 138,344 EHP (32,128 armour 4k more than the mega) with HIGHER resists than the mega.
Or it can fit 2 x eanm with 1 plare for 134,371 EHP (24,144 armour, 4K less than the mega) but with MASSIVLY higher resists.
The abaddon can fit either way depending on the size of RR gang, in a smaller RR gang that will not be fighting massive blobs it can fit the higher resistance fit as it does not need to worry about monster alpha.
And in larger gangs it can fit the twin plated fit that still has higher resists than the mega but also more armour HP.
Originally by: Goumindong
edit: don't know why you're discussing a navy mega, the normal mega is plenty fine for RR in this manner.
Cos NMX lost evey argument involving the standad mega and needed desperatly to win any sort of argument and so started telling us about these mythgical RR navy mega blaster gangs that roam around TQ and how uber they are...he is a even worse liar than you...
Originally by: Goumindong
No, the more reps the more guns the Abaddon loses in comparison to the Mega(which is relying more on drone DPS), the more guns the abaddon loses the more its DPS drops. The slight advantage in resistance is not offset by the drop in DPS.
With 7 guns each:
The mega does 1132 raw dps.
The abad does 982. raw dps.
= -150 raw dps.
With 6 guns each:
The mega does 1013 raw dps.
The abad does 867. raw dps.
= -146 raw dps.
So -4 raw dps...
Now shall we take into account that the laser ship is now doing less EM dmg relative to its over all raw DPS and that the mega is now doing LESS kinetic relative to its over all DPS????.
The real time dmg done by reducing the number of guns is actually more favorable to the abaddon due to the dmg type done by each system and the resistances on the ships.
Wanna tell some more lies gourmie?.....you never learn.
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Laur Khal
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Posted - 2009.04.08 15:19:00 -
[1640]
i'm not sure there's a winner in this thread but the loser is definitely NightmareX.
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Irida Mershkov
Gallente
War is Bliss
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Posted - 2009.04.08 15:45:00 -
[1641]
Mother of god, NightmareX are you seriously trying to compare a Navy Megathron to an Abaddon? what the ****?
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
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Posted - 2009.04.08 18:41:00 -
[1642]
Edited by: NightmareX on 08/04/2009 18:45:34
Originally by: Irida Mershkov
Mother of god, NightmareX are you seriously trying to compare a Navy Megathron to an Abaddon? what the ****?
I just proved that Gallente had the best DPS, EHP and RR combined ship. Nothing more.
Dominix is the best RR BS, but lack DPS and EHP.
Or maybe we can say the Abaddon is owerpowered and need to be nerfed when we have to use a faction BS to compare with when we are comparing ship to an Abaddon and then the Abaddon pretty much have the same stats at the faction ships.
Faction BS'es are more like Tech 1.5. And the Abaddon is still T1. So because of the bonuses on the Abaddon and when it have pretty much the same stats as Navy Mega, then yeah.....
Originally by: Laur Khal
i'm not sure there's a winner in this thread but the loser is definitely NightmareX.
Oh look, another alt is used to say that. Hahah, you clearly don't have the balls to post with your main. And that means you fail.
Or maybe this is one of your 86549673498573 alts Childstar / maralt?.
EDIT: Yes CCP have ONLY said that they are going to look at Blasters, but it doesn't mean they are going to chance them at all.
CCP have also said that they are going to look into faction ships to, so the faction ships like the Navy Mega might get changed to.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Childstar
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Posted - 2009.04.08 18:53:00 -
[1643]
Originally by: NightmareX
Originally by: Irida Mershkov
Mother of god, NightmareX are you seriously trying to compare a Navy Megathron to an Abaddon? what the ****?
I just proved that Gallente had the best DPS, EHP and RR combined ship. Nothing more.
You proved that they have the WORST not the best.
Originally by: NightmareX
Dominix is the best RR BS, but lack DPS and EHP.
Its the best gallente RR BS, but its not the best when compared to the other races available ships.
Originally by: NightmareX
Or maybe we can say the Abaddon is owerpowered and need to be nerfed when we have to use a faction BS to compare with when we are comparing ship to an Abaddon and then the Abaddon pretty much have the same stats at the faction ships.
Its not the abaddon thats the problem its blasters and the PG/CPU of the mega and hyperion.
Originally by: NightmareX
Originally by: Laur Khal
i'm not sure there's a winner in this thread but the loser is definitely NightmareX.
Oh look, another alt is used to say that. Hahah, you clearly don't have the balls to post with your main. And that means you fail.
Or maybe this is one of your 86549673498573 alts Childstar / maralt?.
How much money does it cost to run enough accounts to have 86549673498573 alts????...you are such a tool...
Its not a alt of mine, and comments about having the balls for posting with mains would be better recieved from ppl who did not praise their own mains on alts like you did to yourself with electric.
L.O.S.E.R.
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
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Posted - 2009.04.08 19:18:00 -
[1644]
Edited by: NightmareX on 08/04/2009 19:24:40
Originally by: Childstar
Edited by: Childstar on 08/04/2009 18:58:30
Originally by: NightmareX
Originally by: Irida Mershkov
Mother of god, NightmareX are you seriously trying to compare a Navy Megathron to an Abaddon? what the ****?
I just proved that Gallente had the best DPS, EHP and RR combined ship. Nothing more.
You proved that the MEGA is the WORST not the best.
Originally by: NightmareX
Dominix is the best RR BS, but lack DPS and EHP.
Its the best gallente RR BS, but its not the best when compared to the other races available ships.
Originally by: NightmareX
Or maybe we can say the Abaddon is owerpowered and need to be nerfed when we have to use a faction BS to compare with when we are comparing ship to an Abaddon and then the Abaddon pretty much have the same stats at the faction ships.
Its not the abaddon thats the problem its blasters and the PG/CPU of the mega and hyperion.
Originally by: NightmareX
Originally by: Laur Khal
i'm not sure there's a winner in this thread but the loser is definitely NightmareX.
Oh look, another alt is used to say that. Hahah, you clearly don't have the balls to post with your main. And that means you fail.
Or maybe this is one of your 86549673498573 alts Childstar / maralt?.
How much money does it cost to run enough accounts to have 86549673498573 alts????...you are such a tool...
Its not a alt of mine, and comments about having the balls for posting with mains would be better recieved from ppl who did not praise their own mains on alts like you did to yourself with electric.
L.O.S.E.R.
1. Yeah i had to show that the Mega is not good with your uber ****ty 3x Damage mods setup. Oh lol, a ****ty setup makes a ship to be crap.
Congrats for using the only setup that made the Megathron to be crap.
2. Finally something i can agree on.
3. Then i'm all in to boost the CPU on the Megathron, because it's there the only problem is. Blasters are perfectly fine for very close range. And like many others have said here. You need to put in much more isk in a Mega to get a good setup on it because the COU on the ship is not that good.
4. You was dumb enough to not see that the number was not that much. But still said it because you thought that it was the number i meant lol.
5. Yes i can say all of the alts who post here is your 8475874 alts when you can say that Electric is my alt. Deal?.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Childstar
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Posted - 2009.04.08 19:26:00 -
[1645]
Edited by: Childstar on 08/04/2009 19:32:53
Originally by: NightmareX
Yeah i had to show that the Mega is not good with your uber ****ty 3x Damage mods setup. Oh lol, a ****ty setup makes a ship to be crap.
Congrats for using the only setup that made the Megathron to be crap.
The 3 x dmg mod mega was your idea and fit you clown not mine.
And you spent god knows how many pages trying (AND FAILING MISERABLY) to show how good it was.
Originally by: NightmareX
You was dumb enough to not see that the number was not that much. But still said it because you thought that it was the number i meant lol.
You really are a ranting and drooling idiot aint ya???...
Originally by: NightmareX
Yes i can say it's one of you 8475874 alts when you can say that Electric is my alt. Deal?.
Erm no deal.
Electric IS your alt but i have no idea who this other fella is apart from the fact he is yet another person who sees what a total clown you are.
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
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Posted - 2009.04.08 19:43:00 -
[1646]
Edited by: NightmareX on 08/04/2009 19:45:01
Originally by: Childstar
Edited by: Childstar on 08/04/2009 19:32:53
Originally by: NightmareX
Yeah i had to show that the Mega is not good with your uber ****ty 3x Damage mods setup. Oh lol, a ****ty setup makes a ship to be crap.
Congrats for using the only setup that made the Megathron to be crap.
The 3 x dmg mod mega was your idea and fit you clown not mine.
And you spent god knows how many pages trying (AND FAILING MISERABLY) to show how good it was.
Originally by: NightmareX
You was dumb enough to not see that the number was not that much. But still said it because you thought that it was the number i meant lol.
You really are a ranting and drooling idiot aint ya???...
Originally by: NightmareX
Yes i can say it's one of you 8475874 alts when you can say that Electric is my alt. Deal?.
Erm no deal.
Electric IS your alt but i have no idea who this other fella is apart from the fact he is yet another person who sees what a total clown you are.
1. Yeah i had an idea to fit 3x damage mods when you didn't want to use 2 damage mods like i used. And because comparing a tier 2 ship with 2 damage mods to a tier 3 ship with 3x damage mods just doesn't work dude. Happy now?.
2. Wanna try using 1 or 2 damage mods to see if you Abaddon is any better?. Or wait, your DPS on the Abaddon will be so crappy then that it will sucks horribly by only that.
3. I just made a point like you made a point there.
4. Ok fine, stop calling Electric for my alt when it's not my alt if you want me to stop calling all of the alts everywhere here for your alts. Deal?.
5. Every of the alts here IS your alts, because they are just that and because i just say it, clown.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
PuPPet MasTers
|
Posted - 2009.04.08 19:51:00 -
[1647]
Originally by: NightmareX
1. Yeah i had an idea to fit 3x damage mods when you didn't want to use 2 damage mods like i used. And because comparing a tier 2 ship with 2 damage mods to a tier 3 ship with 3x damage mods just doesn't work dude. Happy now?.
You don't have to fit 3x damage mods just because he does, you have to have superior effectiveness. You don't, and can't, without using a faction BS... which suggests that there's a problem.
Now the question is what that problem is. Is it that blasters are overall not a worthwhile time investment right now, as most people assert? Is it that the Abaddon and/or lasers are OP? Is it that the Megathron itself is kinda meh? Is it that you're using blasters at all in a RR discussion?
-Liang
--
Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
www.kwikdeath.org |
Childstar
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Posted - 2009.04.08 19:51:00 -
[1648]
Edited by: Childstar on 08/04/2009 19:52:54
Originally by: NightmareX
1. Yeah i had an idea to fit 3x damage mods when you didn't want to use 2 damage mods like i used. Happy now?.
Well you are learning to actually tell the truth a little so its a improvment.
Although one of the points of the abaddon using 3 x dmg mods and still having a great tank was to show just how relativly weak the mega is compared to its rivals in RR combat. Especially when you conside the range the mega is forced to work in, its available tank even with 2 dmg mods and the constant cap it needs burn to get into those ranges in gang combat. And most especially the ACTUAL damage it does AFTER resists compared to lasers.
Originally by: NightmareX
2. Wanna try using 1 or 2 damage mods to see if you Abaddon is any better?. Or wait, your DPS on the Abaddon will be so crappy then that it will sucks horribly by only that.
It will just give the abaddon a even larger tank and still more or close to matching dmg after resists.
Originally by: NightmareX
3. I just made a point like you made a point there.
No i made a point, you made yet another stupid and INCORRECT statment.
Originally by: NightmareX
4. Ok fine, stop calling Electric for my alt when it's not my alt if you want me to stop calling all of the alts everywhere here for your alts. Deal?.
NO DEAL.
Electric is your alt, and i have no idea who the other fella is but if yopu wanna say every poster on this forum is my alt go ahead it only really shows what a total prat you are..
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Childstar
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Posted - 2009.04.08 20:08:00 -
[1649]
Edited by: Childstar on 08/04/2009 20:12:26
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Now the question is what that problem is. Is it that blasters are overall not a worthwhile time investment right now, as most people assert?
Is it that the Megathron itself is kinda meh?
BOTH.
The mega is ok as a sniper with full sniper fit.
But as a blaster ship it lacks PG and CPU to be fitted well even passivly tanked, and this is a real issue for a BS that engages at 4.5km for its full damage, not at 15km or even out as far as 45 like pulse BS can.
Giving the mega and maybe the hyperion maybe a boost in PG and CPU so they can actually fit proper tanks for their so called "roles" would be a start to help the ships.
Maybe giving blasters a boost in dmg output in the 8-15km range without increasing their max range would make blaster a little better as a choice in gang combat.
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Is it that the Abaddon and/or lasers are OP?
Difficult question tbh, I HATE NERFS as i think it a easy and short sighted way of doing things and lacks imagination.
Id much rather see the other systems and ships be adjusted to fix any imbalance.
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Is it that you're using blasters at all in a RR discussion?
Actually if you read the history of the thread the fact is that RR is being used in a blaster discussion as NMX has spent a LOT of time trying to convince every body that BLASTER megas are the best RR BS in the entire game as a way of proving blasters were ok....
Or at least thats what he started to do but like most trolls winning ANY argument became more important that the original topic so he ended up using faction fits and ships ect ect....
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Goumindong
Amarr
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.04.08 20:25:00 -
[1650]
Edited by: Goumindong on 08/04/2009 20:28:14
Originally by: Childstar
The 3 x HS RR abaddon can fit 2 x 1600 plates and a eanm for 138,344 EHP (32,128 armour 4k more than the mega) with HIGHER resists than the mega.
Barely higher resists. Not nearly enough to offset the DPS differences.
Quote:
With 7 guns each:
The mega does 1132 raw dps.
The abad does 982. raw dps.
= -150 raw dps.
With 6 guns each:
The mega does 1013 raw dps from 0-4.5km.
The abad does 867. raw dps from 0-15km.
And the mega actually has the cap to run its guns ;)
Oh, and once you run the final numbers you get some interesting things
6 gun Mega, 2 ANP(tech 2, not faction or c-type)
6 Gun abaddon, 2 plates, 1 eanm II
Tank vs other(per 2 reps)
Mega: 514
Abad: 516
EHP vs other:
Mega: 119k
Abad: 136k[14% more EHP]
RAW DPS normalized(I.E. Mega DPS/Abad DPS)
Mega: 1.1683
Abad: 1
DPS after enemy repping(per ship in gang)
Mega: 493
Abad: 353
DPS normalized after repping(I.E. [Mega DPS-Abad tank]/[Abad DPS-Mega tank])
Mega: 1.3966
Abad: 1
Cap Stability:
Mega: 2:20
Abad: 1:25
So, lets review
1. You're probably going to be on a gate at zero. Once reps are applied the Mega group is going to be doing 39% more DPS than the Abaddons. Before Reps are applied, the Megas are going to be doing 16% more DPS than the abaddons but it will only be a few % higher after you figure in the higher EHP. Volley DPS modifications will slightly favor the Megathron, but i didn't bother figuring it out.
2. The mega's are going to eat you for breakfast.
3. The megas can fight nearly twice as long as you can.
Fits for comparison
Originally by: Mega
[Megathron, Blaster Gank]
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Adaptive Nano Plating II
Adaptive Nano Plating II
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Damage Control II
100MN MicroWarpdrive I
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
Faint Warp Disruptor I
Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Large Remote Armor Repair System II
Large Remote Armor Repair System II
Trimark Armor Pump I
Trimark Armor Pump I
Trimark Armor Pump I
Garde II x5
Originally by: Abaddon
[Abaddon, New Setup 1]
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Damage Control II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
100MN MicroWarpdrive I
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
Sensor Booster II
Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
Mega Pulse Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L
Large Remote Armor Repair System II
Large Remote Armor Repair System II
Trimark Armor Pump I
Trimark Armor Pump I
Trimark Armor Pump I
Garde II x3
Note: The Abaddon is unable to fit a scrambler due to CPU. If push comes to shove it can drop the EANM for an ANP without too much trouble. The Mega cannot downgrade to a sensor booster to fit an EANM on instead of an ANP, it will still be PG short
All stats listed w/ both RR's on and MWD off, no overloading(which extends the Mega's advantage), and no implants of any kind, and all stats at 5.
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
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Posted - 2009.04.08 20:27:00 -
[1651]
Edited by: NightmareX on 08/04/2009 20:36:55
Originally by: Childstar
Edited by: Childstar on 08/04/2009 19:52:54
Originally by: NightmareX
1. Yeah i had an idea to fit 3x damage mods when you didn't want to use 2 damage mods like i used. Happy now?.
Well you are learning to actually tell the truth a little so its a improvment.
Although one of the points of the abaddon using 3 x dmg mods and still having a great tank was to show just how relativly weak the mega is compared to its rivals in RR combat. Especially when you conside the range the mega is forced to work in, its available tank even with 2 dmg mods and the constant cap it needs burn to get into those ranges in gang combat. And most especially the ACTUAL damage it does AFTER resists compared to lasers.
Originally by: NightmareX
2. Wanna try using 1 or 2 damage mods to see if you Abaddon is any better?. Or wait, your DPS on the Abaddon will be so crappy then that it will sucks horribly by only that.
It will just give the abaddon a even larger tank and still more or close to matching dmg after resists.
Originally by: NightmareX
3. I just made a point like you made a point there.
No i made a point, you made yet another stupid and INCORRECT statment.
Originally by: NightmareX
4. Ok fine, stop calling Electric for my alt when it's not my alt if you want me to stop calling all of the alts everywhere here for your alts. Deal?.
NO DEAL.
Electric is your alt, and i have no idea who the other fella is but if yopu wanna say every poster on this forum is my alt go ahead it only really shows what a total prat you are..
1 & 2. Ok, because there is mostly only 1 vs 1 comparsion between 2 ship here, then why is it that i in most cases wins over an Abaddon when i'm using a Blaster Megathron on sisi with 1 damage mod and when the Abaddon is using 2 damage mods?.
Don't tell me that the Abaddon pilots sucks, because many i have been fighting does have fuk ton more SP and experience than i do in PVP. Well some of therm might suck though. But that's not the point.
Care to give some explanation when such experienced players can lose an Abaddon to my really really crappy Blaster Mega?.
I simply don't care what the stats is, because the stats is only 35-40% of everything in PVP when it gets to the combat.
3. You made a point and i made the same type of point to just say how it is when you say things like that.
4. Ok then. For all of those who see this topic, please post with your alts, so i can have fun calling those alts for Childstar's / maralt's alts.
So Child, you better tell everybody to post with their mains or get flamed for using all of the alts here as you alts.
Oh boi, that's gonna be fun.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Goumindong
Amarr
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.04.08 20:29:00 -
[1652]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Maybe you should look at which posts you quoted and the context in which it was quoted. You most certainly were responding to 'contemporary' posts, and 'contemporary' posts are making reference to the Navy Mega. Which you directly mentioned. Don't try to bull**** me son.
-Liang
This is the one i quoted. Specifically talking about 2 mfs vs 3 hs.
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Childstar
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Posted - 2009.04.08 21:07:00 -
[1653]
Edited by: Childstar on 08/04/2009 21:15:27
Originally by: Goumindong
Gourmies mega fit + Gourmies abaddon fit and a lot of other crap.
OK LETS BEGIN.
Acting like blaster BS do not need to mwd is just a joke and when you consider guns, 2 x RR and MWD cap usage the megas are dry in 1 min 2 secs and that is before the FIRST reload of the t2 heavy injector is even finished...
So the megas are dry of cap in 62 secs and dead in the water.
Who do you think you are kidding?.
PS: I did you a favor and fitted the correct MWD for the job in my figures as well...
Not the T1 basic version you used in your non-mwd RR only joke of a scenario.....you know the named mwd that only kills 19% of a ships cap not 25% like the one you used does......
You are still a lying manipulative piece of crap....you never learn.
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Childstar
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Posted - 2009.04.08 21:12:00 -
[1654]
Originally by: NightmareX
1 & 2. Ok, because there is mostly only 1 vs 1 comparsion between 2 ship here, then why is it that i in most cases wins over an Abaddon when i'm using a Blaster Megathron on sisi with 1 damage mod and when the Abaddon is using 2 damage mods?.
We are not comparing ship in 1 v 1 combat we are comparing the ships available fits and stats for varied gang combat on TQ.
Originally by: NightmareX
rant about alts ect ect
Whatever muppet.
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
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Posted - 2009.04.08 21:31:00 -
[1655]
Edited by: NightmareX on 08/04/2009 21:36:34
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: NightmareX
1 & 2. Ok, because there is mostly only 1 vs 1 comparsion between 2 ship here, then why is it that i in most cases wins over an Abaddon when i'm using a Blaster Megathron on sisi with 1 damage mod and when the Abaddon is using 2 damage mods?.
We are not comparing ship in 1 v 1 combat we are comparing the ships available fits and stats for varied gang combat on TQ.
Originally by: NightmareX
rant about alts ect ect
Whatever muppet.
1. If your comparing them in fits and stats in gang combat, then why are you comparing 2 ships in fits and stats that only have 40 % to do in the real combat?.
It just shows some stats. It doesn't tell you how much you will get ****d by others if they are much smarter than you.
2. Yeah, you choose what will happen. But you can also be a muppet yourself.
And omfg, is this really possible?. Just warped my Blaster Mega into FFA 1, got primaried by 4 BS'es, 2x Abaddons, one sniper Apoc and one Maelstrom.
Question, what do you think happened here Child?.
Or nvm and forget it, because you love FOTM you will say i would get ****d.
But no, i was shot by those ships and i still killed an Abaddon. I had 30% armor left when the Abaddon died. And continues to shoot the Maelstron until i was in 90% structure and warped out.
It can't get better than that lol.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Childstar
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Posted - 2009.04.08 21:37:00 -
[1656]
Originally by: NightmareX
1. If your comparing them in fits and stats in gang combat, then why are you comparing 2 ships in fits and stats that only have 40 % to do in the real combat to do?.
Because you can balance stats and ships, piloting and team work skills can be learned by anybody willing to learn them.
Originally by: NightmareX
And omfg, is this really possible?. Just warped my Blaster Mega into FFA 1, got primaried by 4 BS'es, 2x Abaddons, one sniper Apoc and one Maelstrom.
Question, what do you think happened here Child?.
I think nothing at all happened at all, as you are a proven liar.
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
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Posted - 2009.04.08 21:40:00 -
[1657]
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: NightmareX
1. If your comparing them in fits and stats in gang combat, then why are you comparing 2 ships in fits and stats that only have 40 % to do in the real combat to do?.
Because you can balance stats and ships, piloting and team work skills can be learned by anybody willing to learn them.
Originally by: NightmareX
And omfg, is this really possible?. Just warped my Blaster Mega into FFA 1, got primaried by 4 BS'es, 2x Abaddons, one sniper Apoc and one Maelstrom.
Question, what do you think happened here Child?.
I think nothing at all happened at all, as you are a proven liar.
1. Still, being smart is a very important of the PVP system. If your smart, you can do the most crazy things in PVP, but if you dumb, you can lose an Abaddon to an Ibis.
2. If you don't believe me, then fine, but don't think that your going to get anyone here to believe your crap here either.
If you say that we are liars, then you are a liar your self.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Childstar
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Posted - 2009.04.08 21:49:00 -
[1658]
Edited by: Childstar on 08/04/2009 21:52:37
Originally by: NightmareX
Still, being smart is a very important of the PVP system. If your smart, you can do the most crazy things in PVP, but if you dumb, you can lose an Abaddon to an Ibis.
You can lose a mega to the same ibis, but the fact is that you cannot ignore problems with ships and systems just because a total tard can lose a good ship against a bad one.
You base things on personal skills being equal.
Originally by: NightmareX
If you don't believe me, then fine, but don't think that your going to get anyone here to believe your crap here either.
Everybody believes me because my data and FACTS and stats are indisputable, i do not make up silly fights that prove nothing i give raw DATA.
You on the other hand make up bullsh*t after bullsh*t, and are now make claims of sissi ffa1 fights that never happened.
Originally by: NightmareX
If you say that we are liars, then you are a liar your self.
Who is WE???? there is only YOU making these claims of non existant fights....are you mental or summat?.
A split personality and both of them total d*ckheads...unlucky
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Ephemeron
North Eastern Swat
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.04.08 21:50:00 -
[1659]
Ibis can't break passive shield recharge rate of Abaddon
Player skill level and experience are of course very important in pvp, however it doesn't enter the balance equations.
You can't say that "ship A is very powerful but only dumb people fly it, ship B is weak but very smart people fly it, this way both are equally powerful with their own advantages and disadvantages"
For balancing purposes, designer should assume that all people playing are highly skilled and experienced.
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Childstar
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Posted - 2009.04.08 21:54:00 -
[1660]
Originally by: Ephemeron
Ibis can't break passive shield recharge rate of Abaddon
Player skill level and experience are of course very important in pvp, however it doesn't enter the balance equations.
You can't say that "ship A is very powerful but only dumb people fly it, ship B is weak but very smart people fly it, this way both are equally powerful with their own advantages and disadvantages"
Exactly.
Originally by: Ephemeron
For balancing purposes, designer should assume that all people playing are highly skilled and experienced.
Or total idiots....
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
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Posted - 2009.04.08 21:54:00 -
[1661]
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: NightmareX
Still, being smart is a very important of the PVP system. If your smart, you can do the most crazy things in PVP, but if you dumb, you can lose an Abaddon to an Ibis.
You can lose a mega to the same ibis, but the fact is that you cannot ignore problems with ships and systems just because a total tard can lose a good ship against a bad one.
You base things on personal skills being equal.
Originally by: NightmareX
If you don't believe me, then fine, but don't think that your going to get anyone here to believe your crap here either.
Everybody believes me because my data and FACTS and stats are indisputable.
You on the other hand make up bullsh*t after bullsh*t, and are now make claims of sissi ffa1 fights that never happened.
Originally by: NightmareX
If you say that we are liars, then you are a liar your self.
Who is WE???? there is only YOU making these claims of non existant fights....are you mental or summat?.
A split personality and both of them total d*ckheads...unlucky
1. Still, a Megathron is just as good as the Abaddon no matter what you say. And everybody knows that the stats on the ships is just a little part of how PVP is.
2. Yeah you gave one fact that i proved you to be wrong in. Oh yeah, we are going to believe you when your lying about the thing i proved you to be wrong in.
3. I have eyes and can read. Everytimes someone is saying things against you, you claim them to be liars and muppets.
But on the other hand, can you read?.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Traderboz
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Posted - 2009.04.08 22:02:00 -
[1662]
Quote:
And everybody knows that the stats on the ships is just a little part of how PVP is.
While I agree NMX, this is irrelevant to ship balance discussions. You have to take pilot skill out of the equation when it comes to ship balance, because in-game you could easily have a good player in both ships, bad players in both ships, one of each, etc. You should really assume equal skills (i.e. max skills) and equal player skills, since from a balance point of view, player skills/SP are a variable that you cannot control.
You would never want to make one ship more powerful than another just because a dumb and low-SP player might fly that ship. Likewise, it's no defense to a ship balance discussion to say that player skill/SP matter in-game.
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Childstar
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Posted - 2009.04.08 22:05:00 -
[1663]
Originally by: NightmareX
1. Still, a Megathron is just as good as the Abaddon no matter what you say.
Rubbish, the abaddon is a much much better ship at gang pvp, the mega is a better sniper maybe but then amarr have another BS for sniping that is better than the mega so...
Originally by: NightmareX
2. Yeah you gave one fact that i proved you to be wrong in. Oh yeah, we are going to believe you when your lying about the thing i proved you to be wrong in.
Even if i had made a calculatory error it would have been a genuin mistake and i would have corrected it as soon as it was pointed out, it is you who covers mistakes or errors with lies on top of lies.
Im here for total accuracy it is you who tries to manipulate and decieve instead of being honest and open.
Originally by: NightmareX
I have eyes and can read. Everytimes someone is saying things against you, you claim them to be liars and muppets.
Its now everytime its only when they lie, manipulate or decieve that i say that and i always point out what they have done how they did it and add corrections.
I think its disgusting that those who claim to be unbiased and about balancing and fixing things stoop to badly fitting ships just to manipulate stats in their favor.
Gourmindong is by far the worst for it, its makes me sick.
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
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Posted - 2009.04.08 22:14:00 -
[1664]
Edited by: NightmareX on 08/04/2009 22:17:41
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: NightmareX
1. Still, a Megathron is just as good as the Abaddon no matter what you say.
Rubbish, the abaddon is a much much better ship at gang pvp, the mega is a better sniper maybe but then amarr have another BS for sniping that is better than the mega so...
Originally by: NightmareX
2. Yeah you gave one fact that i proved you to be wrong in. Oh yeah, we are going to believe you when your lying about the thing i proved you to be wrong in.
Even if i had made a calculatory error it would have been a genuin mistake and i would have corrected it as soon as it was pointed out, it is you who covers mistakes or errors with lies on top of lies.
Im here for total accuracy it is you who tries to manipulate and decieve instead of being honest and open.
Originally by: NightmareX
I have eyes and can read. Everytimes someone is saying things against you, you claim them to be liars and muppets.
Its now everytime its only when they lie, manipulate or decieve that i say that and i always point out what they have done how they did it and add corrections.
I think its disgusting that those who claim to be unbiased and about balancing and fixing things stoop to badly fitting ships just to manipulate stats in their favor.
Gourmindong is by far the worst for it, its makes me sick.
1. Then why did i pwn one Abaddon on sisi earlier when i was shoot by the Abaddon i killed and another Abaddon + one Maelstrom and a sniper Apoc?.
Maybe my skills and experience with the Mega is good enough to be able to do that heh?.
2. Hahaha, good try but that doesn't make that your not a liar dude. I said multiple times that the setup that i used on the Navy Mega was doing a little little bit more DPS than the Abaddon after resists. But you still was denying it that my Navy Mega was doing more DPS.
You was all the time sure that your calculation was 100% right. So i had to make a new math ONLY to prove that you was wrong and most likely was lying because you cannot see such errors in a math so many times before you realize that it's wrong.
And such a pr0 pvper like you should not do mistakes like that.
3. Yeah when you think they are lying, but when we tell you that your lying, then no, your never lying. That's the problem with you.
You can say they are lying, but when we say your lying then no. Your then all the time 100% accurate and are always saying the facts etc etc etc etc.
See the problem?.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Childstar
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Posted - 2009.04.08 22:25:00 -
[1665]
Originally by: NightmareX
1. Then why did i pwn one Abaddon on sisi earlier when i was shoot by the Abaddon i killed and another Abaddon + one Maelstrom and a sniper Apoc?.
Maybe my skills and experience with the Mega is good enough to be able to do that heh?.
And maybe you are totally full of crap and lying.
Originally by: NightmareX
2. Hahaha, good try but that doesn't make that your not a liar dude. I said multiple times that the setup that i used on the Navy Mega was doing a little little bit more DPS than the Abaddon after resists. But you still was denying it that my Navy Mega was doing more DPS.
I did not deny it, in fact i went to great detail to work out show exactly how much more dmg it did vs rsists.
With null it was 2.6 more dps at 11km i think.
I suggest you read back, this is not the first time you have made this claim and i have corrected you and shown you where i say it does more on several occasions.
So yet again its you who are lying, only this time about me lying..irony of iroinies...
Originally by: NightmareX
Yeah when you think they are lying, but when we tell you that your lying, then no, your never lying. That's the problem with you.
I prove it when others are lying about stats/fits ect, but if i make a mistake i admit it and correct it, that is the differance.
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
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Posted - 2009.04.08 22:40:00 -
[1666]
Edited by: NightmareX on 08/04/2009 22:42:47
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: NightmareX
1. Then why did i pwn one Abaddon on sisi earlier when i was shoot by the Abaddon i killed and another Abaddon + one Maelstrom and a sniper Apoc?.
Maybe my skills and experience with the Mega is good enough to be able to do that heh?.
And maybe you are totally full of crap and lying.
Originally by: NightmareX
2. Hahaha, good try but that doesn't make that your not a liar dude. I said multiple times that the setup that i used on the Navy Mega was doing a little little bit more DPS than the Abaddon after resists. But you still was denying it that my Navy Mega was doing more DPS.
I did not deny it, in fact i went to great detail to work out show exactly how much more dmg it did vs rsists.
With null it was 2.6 more dps at 11km i think.
I suggest you read back, this is not the first time you have made this claim and i have corrected you and shown you where i say it does more on several occasions.
So yet again its you who are lying, only this time about me lying..irony of iroinies...
Originally by: NightmareX
Yeah when you think they are lying, but when we tell you that your lying, then no, your never lying. That's the problem with you.
I prove it when others are lying about stats/fits ect, but if i make a mistake i admit it and correct it, that is the differance.
1. Ok, because your lying your self now, then log on sisi and convo those 2 guys and ask them what happened before he died. Those names is lannycameron and Aeryn Scorpius. If they are not on sisi when you log on there, then you have to wait, or you can ask them on TQ.
2. Yeah you denied it and had to make a math of it just to prove it that you was right. But still failed to give proofs in anything then. And when i saw your HUUUUUGE error, then i told you was lying and was not right. But you still was saying your maths and on how accurate you was 100% right sometime after i told you that, until someone else said that my math was right there.
3. Should such a pr0 pvper like you do such mistakes?. Any pvpers that do such huge mistake when it's about doing the math in DPS and resists are noobs tbh.
EDIT: I'm also gonna add that you was lying about the DPS on the Navy Mega on how many KM away you could be before the Abaddon did do more DPS than the Navy Mega.
I said the Navy Mega did 24% more DPS than you at 4.5 km and it was doing more DPS than you until 12.5 km, but you didn't believe it. EFT shows it if you don't believe me.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Childstar
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Posted - 2009.04.08 22:49:00 -
[1667]
Edited by: Childstar on 08/04/2009 22:50:15
Originally by: NightmareX
Those names is lannycameron and Aeryn Scorpius. If they are not on sisi when you log on there, then you have to wait, or you can ask them on TQ.
Il do so if i get the chance, but they could be buddies of your so...
Originally by: NightmareX
Yeah you denied it and had to make a math of it just to prove it that you was right.
I denied nothing and when a fit is posted i always work out the relative DPS.
Originally by: NightmareX
And when i saw your HUUUUUGE error, then i told you was lying and was not right.
It was not a HUUUUUGE mistake it was a minor math error as i got the 2.6 more dps in the abaddons favor instead of the megas by mistake.
Originally by: NightmareX
But you still was saying your maths and on how accurate you was 100% right sometime after i told you that, until someone else said that my math was right there.
None of that heppened as i corrected myself as soon as i noticed the error and 2.6 more DPS as a mistake is totally insignificant.
Originally by: NightmareX
Should such a pr0 pvper like you do such mistakes?. Any pvpers that do such huge mistake when it's about doing the math in DPS and resists are noobs tbh.
Making such a big thing about me saying that the abaddon did 2.6 more DPS then the mega when it was the other way around and that i corrected str8 away is just pathetic.
You are now lying and exhagerating what happened because you have failed at everything else in this thread and have only a tiny math error to go on about.
You are a sad pathetic little boy.
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Goumindong
Amarr
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.04.08 23:01:00 -
[1668]
Edited by: Goumindong on 08/04/2009 23:04:45
Originally by: Childstar
OK LETS BEGIN CORRECTING YOUR LIES AND MANIPULATIONS.
O.K. lets begin by correcting your vision. Sorry if this next bit wasn't clear in the original post, but it removes all of your objections.
Originally by: me
EHP vs other:
This means "the EHP that the ship has against the others attacks. I.E. the Mega has 119k EHP against the DPS of a 6 turret 3 garde, max skilled Abaddon. The Abaddon has 136k EHP against the DPS of a 6 turret 5 garde, max skilled megathron".
Gang skills increase your hit points about equally across the board with a slight advantage to your abaddon since it has a tad bit more(1% more) EHP in armor and shields(which will increase the EHP difference by a raw .1% of the previous value or so)
Quote:
Acting like blaster BS do not need to mwd is just a joke and when you consider guns, 2 x RR and MWD cap usage the megas are dry in 1 min 2 secs and that is before the FIRST reload of the t2 heavy injector is even finished...
RR gangs do not MWD to their targets. I am not really sure how you do not know this. They MWD once and they all MWD roughly the same distance. They use their MWD to move into RR range and then they start engaging. Typically this is right on top of the other RR gang which is also not moving. Distance moved is usually under 10km(since you're MWDing to a gate from a jump in or a warp to zero)
Quote:
I did you a favor and fitted the correct MWD for the job in my figures as well...(with yours the megas cap was dead in 57 secs).Laughing
I did not use T1 basic version you used in your non-mwd RR only joke of a scenario.....i used the named mwd that only kills 19% of a ships cap not 25% like the one you used does....
Speed is the primary thing that matters. If you want to use a more expensive MWD that is fine, but the primary benefit is not changed, it doesn't add any more CPU, but the difference that you're going to get out of it makes it not very valuable to strap on better MWDs, and certainly in EFT makes it more or less pointless.[Though it should be noted that the tech 1 MWD's make the Mega look a worse than it ought to be since the mega has a much smaller gap between the cap it produces and the cap it uses than the Abaddon does(which means that it gains more time when max cap and cap regen are increased by fitting a better MWD)]
So, lets go over this...
About the same DPS relative to EHP before reps, 40% more DPS after reps, 1.8 times or so the cap stability
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
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Posted - 2009.04.08 23:09:00 -
[1669]
Edited by: NightmareX on 08/04/2009 23:12:11
Originally by: Childstar
Edited by: Childstar on 08/04/2009 22:50:15
Originally by: NightmareX
Those names is lannycameron and Aeryn Scorpius. If they are not on sisi when you log on there, then you have to wait, or you can ask them on TQ.
Il do so if i get the chance, but they could be buddies of your so...
Originally by: NightmareX
Yeah you denied it and had to make a math of it just to prove it that you was right.
I denied nothing and when a fit is posted i always work out the relative DPS.
Originally by: NightmareX
And when i saw your HUUUUUGE error, then i told you was lying and was not right.
It was not a HUUUUUGE mistake it was a minor math error as i got the 2.6 more dps in the abaddons favor instead of the megas by mistake.
Originally by: NightmareX
But you still was saying your maths and on how accurate you was 100% right sometime after i told you that, until someone else said that my math was right there.
None of that heppened as i corrected myself as soon as i noticed the error and 2.6 more DPS as a mistake is totally insignificant.
Originally by: NightmareX
Should such a pr0 pvper like you do such mistakes?. Any pvpers that do such huge mistake when it's about doing the math in DPS and resists are noobs tbh.
Making such a big thing about me saying that the abaddon did 2.6 more DPS then the mega when it was the other way around and that i corrected str8 away is just pathetic.
You are now lying and exhagerating what happened because you have failed at everything else in this thread and have only a tiny math error to go on about.
You are a sad pathetic little boy.
1. Sadly they are not.
2. You denied it until another one told that my math was 100% right.
3. Yeah and mistakes like that are not done by any experienced PVPers, just so you know.
4. About the Null damage yeah, but that wasn't what we was talking about, we was talking mostly about Caldari Navy Antimatter L and other faction ammos. And my maths about the Navy Mega with CN Antimatter L was always right, even before i did the calculations to just to prove you wrong there. Until some others said i was right there AND THEN you changed you mind about the Navy Mega with CN Antimatter L right after.
That's what i'm talking about. And nice try to try and tell us that you didn't lie there when you was doing that for a little time until someone else said i was right.
5. We are still talking about the faction ammos.
Now whos lying the most here?.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Childstar
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Posted - 2009.04.08 23:20:00 -
[1670]
Originally by: Goumindong
This means "the EHP that the ship has against the others attacks. I.E. the Mega has 119k EHP against the DPS of a 6 turret 3 garde, max skilled Abaddon. The Abaddon has 136k EHP against the DPS of a 6 turret 5 garde, max skilled megathron".
That is a poor way to compare as in gang combat ALL dmg types are likely to be used, it is a pure 1 v 1 style of comparison.
Originally by: Goumindong
RR gangs do not MWD to their targets.
Blaster BS do if they wanna do even close to the DMG ammounts you are going on about.
Originally by: Goumindong
I am not really sure how you do not know this.
How can you not know that above?.
Originally by: Goumindong
They MWD once and they all MWD roughly the same distance. They use their MWD to move into RR range and then they start engaging.
Exactly and RR range of each other is not going to put all the ships at 4.5km of the enemy no matter how much you try and claim it is.
Originally by: Goumindong
Typically this is right on top of the other RR gang which is also not moving.
Rubbish.
Take your silly scenarios and pointless stats elsewhere they do not reflect reality of using blasters in gang combat RR or other wise.
And to claim such high DPS values from ships that spend most gang fights not even close to 4.5km from the targets or if they do burn buckets of cap mwding is just a joke.
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Childstar
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Posted - 2009.04.08 23:26:00 -
[1671]
Originally by: NightmareX
2. You denied it all the time when i said the Navy Mega was doing more DPS than the Abaddon before i did come with the maths that did prove what i said all the time.
It started on pg51 in post 1523 when i said this:
The abaddon has better EHP and damage if you use NULL.
You said i was wrong but posted 0 math proving anything.
I denied nothing but went back and retested and it turned out that the navy mega got 2354 more EHP and 2.54 more dps at 0-11km with null.
And i clearly posted these details in post 1530.
Originally by: NightmareX
3. Yeah and mistakes like that are not done by any experienced PVPers, just so you know.
It was a simple math error and one i never denied and also corrected. And you will not bait me by making silly comments like that, as real pvpers do make math errors but they do not make massive fitting errors as knowing how to fit a ship properly is pvp 101 and you failed...
Originally by: NightmareX
About the Null damage yeah, but that wasn't what we was talking about, we was talking mostly about Caldari Navy Antimatter L and other faction ammos. And my maths about the Navy Mega with CN Antimatter L was always right, even before i did the calculations to just to prove you wrong there. Until some others said i was right there AND THEN you changed you mind about the Navy Mega with CN Antimatter L right after.
Link or post/page numbers and if i was wrong i will admit it and even point it out like i did above.
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Goumindong
Amarr
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.04.08 23:30:00 -
[1672]
Originally by: Childstar
That is a poor way to compare as in gang combat ALL dmg types are likely to be used, it is a pure 1 v 1 style of comparison.
No, its not. Its a homogeneous style of comparison. For the moment, we know that if the choice came between the Mega and the Abaddon, the Mega would have 40% more DPS under reps(before overloading) and the Abaddon would have more range.
If you want to do other homogeneous comparisons you can figure out whether or not the megas advantage in DPS offsets its lower EHP in those situations as well, just make sure you use the abaddon against those too.
The combination of all homogeneous comparisons will give you the relative advantages of each ship in the fleet(it will essentially define the game). (there are an utterly massive amount to do). I have a feeling, especially for RR since shield tanks are nearly verboten, that you're going to find that in the majority of cases, the megathron is coming ahead as a choice above the abaddon due to the damage type advantages that it has.
Quote:
Blaster BS do if they wanna do even close to the DMG ammounts you are going on about
Exactly and RR range of each other is not going to put all the ships at 4.5km of the enemy no matter how much you try and claim it is.
This game is not played on SISI, please do not claim it is.
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
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Posted - 2009.04.08 23:36:00 -
[1673]
Edited by: NightmareX on 08/04/2009 23:36:13
Originally by: Childstar
Link or post/page numbers and if i was wrong i will admit it and even point it out like i did above.
Here.
That was posted ONLY to prove that you was totally wrong about the thing that an Abaddon was doing more DPS than the Navy Mega with Caldari Navy Antimatter L ammo after the resists.
You was saying that all the time before i posted that and before another one said my math was right.
But as you see there, you was sooooooo very wrong about that.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
PuPPet MasTers
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Posted - 2009.04.08 23:42:00 -
[1674]
Edited by: Liang Nuren on 08/04/2009 23:42:56
Originally by: Goumindong
No, its not. Its a homogeneous style of comparison. For the moment, we know that if the choice came between the Mega and the Abaddon, the Mega would have 40% more DPS under reps(before overloading) and the Abaddon would have more range.
I have a feeling, especially for RR since shield tanks are nearly verboten, that you're going to find that in the majority of cases, the megathron is coming ahead as a choice above the abaddon due to the damage type advantages that it has.
Sorry mate, but did you just completely discount the range advantage that the Abaddon has? As things stand, there's at least something of a valid argument for using pulse in a RR fleet, but blasters is simply loltastic. The logistics of using them in a RR fleet (including hauling your happy ass across the battle field to engage the next target) mean that the pulse boats overcome whatever advantage that might be gained by damage type or higher raw DPS. Your numerical simulations have to also simulate the combat environment, not just assume that they're both sitting still (or even orbiting each other) at 4.5km. That is to say, a complete picture would show the damage at 5km, 10km, 20km, 50km, and 100km. Then you need to assign probabilities to each engagement range - and I'm sorry to say it, but the most likely engagement range is not 5km.
RR Megas fit rails. The MWD is for burning back to the gate and fast aligning, not maneuvering in combat. Its as simple as that.
Quote:
This game is not played on SISI, please do not claim it is.
Nobody is claiming that it is. In fact, he's quite stridently been claiming that certain people ::cough-cough:: should get off the test server and try this bull**** on TQ.
-Liang
Ed: I tried for page 50 Snypa, but I got page 56 isntead. Does it count, Malcanis?!
--
Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
www.kwikdeath.org |
Childstar
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Posted - 2009.04.08 23:45:00 -
[1675]
Originally by: Goumindong
No, its not. Its a homogeneous style of comparison. For the moment, we know that if the choice came between the Mega and the Abaddon, the Mega would have 40% more DPS under reps(before overloading) and the Abaddon would have more range.
No we do not know anything because we are assuming that the mega is at perfect optimal for the entire of the fight against every ship it faces without using its mwd ever, that it is being shot at by only laser ships ever and that it is only shooting back at laser ships ever.
We are also assuming that your base figures are correct and that i highly doubt tbh.
Originally by: Goumindong
Originally by: Childstar
Getting into RR range of each other is not going to put all the ships at 4.5km of the enemy no matter how much you try and claim it is.
This game is not played on SISI, please do not claim it is.
Is that the best you can do to a totally accurate assesment?.
Why do you think most RR fits use rails?, why is it that you yourself have said to use RR rail fits in this and other threads time and again?.
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
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Posted - 2009.04.08 23:50:00 -
[1676]
Edited by: NightmareX on 08/04/2009 23:52:34
Originally by: Childstar
Why do you think most RR fits use rails?, why is it that you yourself have said to use RR rail fits in this and other threads time and again?.
Most RR gangs use Rails?.
Excuse me while i LOL, but i don't see many RR gangs in empire and low sec that use rail fits on the Megas in RR gangs.
It might be true in 0.0 space though.
And how many % of the EVE population are in 0.0 space compared to empire and low sec?.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Childstar
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Posted - 2009.04.08 23:52:00 -
[1677]
Edited by: Childstar on 08/04/2009 23:56:09
Originally by: NightmareX
Originally by: Childstar
Link or post/page numbers and if i was wrong i will admit it and even point it out like i did above.
Here.
That was posted ONLY to prove that you was totally wrong about the thing that an Abaddon was doing more DPS than the Navy Mega with Caldari Navy Antimatter L ammo after the resists.
You was saying that all the time before i posted that and before another one said my math was right.
But as you see there, you was sooooooo very wrong about that.
I see your post in that link saying that the navy mega did more dmg with caldari am than the abaddon ect but i NEVER claimed that the abad was doing more dmg after resists than it with that ammo EVER.
You were replying to post 154 and that does not mention anything about the abad doing more dps than the mega with AM fitted?.
Show me where i do make that claim as i think you will find i do not.
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
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Posted - 2009.04.08 23:57:00 -
[1678]
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: NightmareX
Edited by: NightmareX on 08/04/2009 23:36:13
Originally by: Childstar
Link or post/page numbers and if i was wrong i will admit it and even point it out like i did above.
Here.
That was posted ONLY to prove that you was totally wrong about the thing that an Abaddon was doing more DPS than the Navy Mega with Caldari Navy Antimatter L ammo after the resists.
You was saying that all the time before i posted that and before another one said my math was right.
But as you see there, you was sooooooo very wrong about that.
I see your post about saying that the navy mega did more dmg with caldari am ect but i NEVER claimed that the abad was doing more dmg after resists than it with that ammo EVER.
Show me where i do pls.
It was the only reason i did that math, because you was claiming the DPS on the Abaddon was better than the Navy Mega with CN Antimatter L.
And because i have never talked about a Navy Mega with Null L ammo in this topic, when it's about comparing the 2 ships, then it's YOU that have just started to talk about the ammo, and not me.
I have always used the CN Antimatter L ammo in this topic when it's about the Navy Mega setup. And because of that, you denied it somewhere and then i made the maths to show you that i was right when you was denying me that the Navy Mega with CN Antimatter L ammo was doing more DPS than the Abaddon.
But like i say, i have never claimed you to be wrong when it's about the Navy Mega and the Null L ammo.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Childstar
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Posted - 2009.04.09 00:00:00 -
[1679]
Edited by: Childstar on 09/04/2009 00:02:54
Originally by: NightmareX
It was the only reason i did that math, because you was claiming the DPS on the Abaddon was better than the Navy Mega with CN Antimatter L.
Show me where i claim it them ffs as if i did i will admit it and correct it.
Cos the post you replied to in the rant about AM dmg said nothing about me saying any such thing.
In fact your reply is post 1549 but i clearly show the dmg amounts in posts 1530 and post 1535 BEFORE.
I think you are having another delusion tbh.
So why the heck would you say i was contradicting myself after i had made 2 clear posts agreeing with you ffs?.
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
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Posted - 2009.04.09 00:04:00 -
[1680]
Originally by: Childstar
Edited by: Childstar on 09/04/2009 00:02:54
Originally by: NightmareX
It was the only reason i did that math, because you was claiming the DPS on the Abaddon was better than the Navy Mega with CN Antimatter L.
Show me where i claim it them ffs as if i did i will admit it and correct it.
Cos the post you replied to in the rant about AM dmg said nothing about me saying any such thing.
In fact your reply is post 1549 but i clearly show the dmg amounts in posts 1530 and post 1535 BEFORE.
I think you are having another delusion tbh.
So why the heck would you say i was contradicting myself after i had made 2 clear posts agreeing with you ffs?.
Read my reply over.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
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Childstar
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Posted - 2009.04.09 00:08:00 -
[1681]
Edited by: Childstar on 09/04/2009 00:10:48
Originally by: NightmareX
Originally by: Childstar
Edited by: Childstar on 09/04/2009 00:02:54
Originally by: NightmareX
It was the only reason i did that math, because you was claiming the DPS on the Abaddon was better than the Navy Mega with CN Antimatter L.
Show me where i claim it them ffs as if i did i will admit it and correct it.
Cos the post you replied to in the rant about AM dmg said nothing about me saying any such thing.
In fact your reply is post 1549 but i clearly show the dmg amounts in posts 1530 and post 1535 BEFORE.
I think you are having another delusion tbh.
So why the heck would you say i was contradicting myself after i had made 2 clear posts agreeing with you ffs?.
Read my reply over.
I did and you need to learn how to read before you rant, i suggest you read the post of mine you linked more carefully than you did when you first replied to it and obviosly than you did just now.
I say nothing about the abaddon doing more dps than the navy meg with AM fitted wtf are you smoking?.
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
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Posted - 2009.04.09 00:11:00 -
[1682]
Edited by: NightmareX on 09/04/2009 00:15:43
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: NightmareX
Originally by: Childstar
Edited by: Childstar on 09/04/2009 00:02:54
Originally by: NightmareX
It was the only reason i did that math, because you was claiming the DPS on the Abaddon was better than the Navy Mega with CN Antimatter L.
Show me where i claim it them ffs as if i did i will admit it and correct it.
Cos the post you replied to in the rant about AM dmg said nothing about me saying any such thing.
In fact your reply is post 1549 but i clearly show the dmg amounts in posts 1530 and post 1535 BEFORE.
I think you are having another delusion tbh.
So why the heck would you say i was contradicting myself after i had made 2 clear posts agreeing with you ffs?.
Read my reply over.
I did and you need to learn how to read before you rant, i suggest you read the post of mine you linked more carefully that you did when you first replied to it and abviosly now.
When you say the Navy Mega are doing the same DPS before taking the damage mods on the guns into picture, then yes, you was more right.
Yes the math there are about the same in DPS, or the Navy Mega is doing marginally better DPS BEFORE gun damage mod.
But why are you saying the Abaddon is doing the same DPS like that even before you took the damage mods into the picture there?.
HUUUUGE failure to not take the gun damage mods into the dps advantage the Mega / Navy Mega have.
Anyways, it was just to prove that i was right about the Navy Mega with CN Antimatter L that i always said did take more damage than the Abaddon you at some point said was doing more DPS than the Navy Mega.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Childstar
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Posted - 2009.04.09 00:20:00 -
[1683]
Edited by: Childstar on 09/04/2009 00:22:50
Originally by: NightmareX
When you say the Navy Mega are doing the same DPS before taking the damage mods on the guns into picture, then yes, you was wrong.
I said that the navy mega does the same dps as the standard mega when they both have 3 dmg mods fitted.
Quote:
THE STANDARD 3 MAG STAB MEGA GETS THE SAME DPS AS THE 3 MAG STAB NAVY MEGA...
See?... and thats true.
Originally by: NightmareX
Yes the math there are about the same in DPS, or the Navy Mega is doing marginally better DPS BEFORE gun damage mod.
No its not cos both the normal and navy megas get the same bonus to hybrids so when they are fitted the same they get the same dmg output...
Originally by: NightmareX
But why are you saying the Abaddon is doing the same DPS like that even before you took the damage mods into the picture there?.
WHERE DO I SAY THE ABAD IS DOING THE SAME DPS?????...I DO NOT EVEN MENTION THE DPS FROM THE ABAD FFS, ARE YOU MENTAL?.
I say that you are paying nearly 600 million isk for just 2354 more EHP than the ABAD.
Quote:
YOU ARE PAYING NEARLY 600 MIL ISK FOR JUST 2354 MORE EHP THAN THE ABADDON...
See?........you can see that cant you, on your link and in this post?.
Then i show you both resists and the abads are a little better but thats all, i do not mention the abads dps at all.
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
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Posted - 2009.04.09 00:54:00 -
[1684]
Edited by: NightmareX on 09/04/2009 00:58:00
Originally by: Childstar
Edited by: Childstar on 09/04/2009 00:22:50
Originally by: NightmareX
When you say the Navy Mega are doing the same DPS before taking the damage mods on the guns into picture, then yes, you was wrong.
I said that the navy mega does the same dps as the standard mega when they both have 3 dmg mods fitted.
Quote:
THE STANDARD 3 MAG STAB MEGA GETS THE SAME DPS AS THE 3 MAG STAB NAVY MEGA...
See?... and thats true.
Originally by: NightmareX
Yes the math there are about the same in DPS, or the Navy Mega is doing marginally better DPS BEFORE gun damage mod.
No its not cos both the normal and navy megas get the same bonus to hybrids so when they are fitted the same they get the same dmg output...
Originally by: NightmareX
But why are you saying the Abaddon is doing the same DPS like that even before you took the damage mods into the picture there?.
WHERE DO I SAY THE ABAD IS DOING THE SAME DPS?????...I DO NOT EVEN MENTION THE DPS FROM THE ABAD FFS, ARE YOU MENTAL?.
I say that you are paying nearly 600 million isk for just 2354 more EHP than the ABAD.
Quote:
YOU ARE PAYING NEARLY 600 MIL ISK FOR JUST 2354 MORE EHP THAN THE ABADDON...
See?........you can see that cant you, on your link and in this post?.
Then i show you both resists and the abads are a little better but thats all, i do not mention the abads dps at all.
1. Why do you even tell us that the normal Mega and Navy mega are doing the same DPS, when it's clearly that they always have done that?.
2. Yes, and this was not what we was talking about dude. Everybody knows that anyways.
3. Did we talk about comparing the damage output to the Mega and the Navy Mega there?, or did i compare the damage output there between the Navy Mega and the Abaddon there?.
Ops, you shoot your self in the foot there. Ouch.
4. I don't want to read through 30+ pages just to find the reply you said it.
5. Do i care if it cost 600 mill isk?. If i want to do the best DPS, have a very high EHP and can do RR combined, then yes, i choose the best i can find for that.
If i want the best ship for RR gangs, then i buy it no matter what.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Goumindong
Amarr
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.04.09 02:53:00 -
[1685]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Sorry mate, but did you just completely discount the range advantage that the Abaddon has?
No, i did not. I simply did not give it an infinite premium as some are wont to do.
Try as you might to say that no combat goes on at gates at zero, or that blasters do not have a role, you're wrong. They might not be perfect for the type of combat that you do, but they don't have be.
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Liang Nuren
No Salvation
PuPPet MasTers
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Posted - 2009.04.09 04:23:00 -
[1686]
Edited by: Liang Nuren on 09/04/2009 04:24:03
Originally by: Goumindong
No, i did not. I simply did not give it an infinite premium as some are wont to do.
Try as you might to say that no combat goes on at gates at zero, or that blasters do not have a role, you're wrong. They might not be perfect for the type of combat that you do, but they don't have be.
I am not giving it an infinite premium, but I am giving it a premium. In fact, I'm giving it what it's worth - because much more combat happens at ranges >5km than at ranges <= 5km. And hell, even if the combat did happen at 5-10km, the RR circlejerk simply doesn't work if you have ships MWD'ing all over the place to try and get in range to use their close range weapons! RR fleets are like a mob pushing through a door, not a gentle ballet!
What we're seeing here is that you blithely say that combat can happen at 0-5km. Sure, I'll agree. Anything can happen in Eve. But just how common is it really? Well, from everything I've seen it's really ****ing uncommon, and damn near impossible to pull off successfully.
Wait, what?! IMPOSSIBLE?! Yeah, that's right, you heard me. IMPOSSIBLE. Why would I say that? Well, because even if you get a fleet of RR blaster megas out (and somehow they miraculously stay in RR range of each other in a fight...) then they're wtfpwnt the moment anything even slightly faster than them comes up. Like, say, interceptors. Or HACs. Or BC's. Or hell, anything. The engagement range is so short with blasters, and they're so terribly gimped by tracking and webs that the decision to fly them at all is dubious, and the decision to fly them in a RR gang is utter ******ation!
Real RR gangs use rails. Get off Sisi.
-Liang
--
Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
www.kwikdeath.org |
Goumindong
Amarr
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.04.09 05:38:00 -
[1687]
Edited by: Goumindong on 09/04/2009 05:45:38
Originally by: Liang Nuren
. In fact, I'm giving it what it's worth - because much more combat happens at ranges >5km than at ranges <= 5km. And hell, even if the combat did happen at 5-10km, the RR circlejerk simply doesn't work if you have ships MWD'ing all over the place to try and get in range to use their close range weapons! RR fleets are like a mob pushing through a door, not a gentle ballet!
First off, the effective range of the megathrons in question is over 25km. They hit 27km with their blasters at optimal + falloff with t2 long range ammo and 30+30 with the Gardes. No one is suggesting(except you) that anyone is going to be MWDing between primary targets.
Second off, the majority of combat that it matters for is going to happen at ranges around 5km. DPS at 30km is not nearly as important in an RR fleet as it is at <5km. The reasons for this are twofold.
1. Your greatest threat is another RR fleet. Another RR fleet is going to be in the same position you are, at zero on the gate. Against a longer range gang in any scenario, an RR fleet has a single advantage, the ability to deaggress and leave the battle while taking minimal losses. This means that any RR fleet you do encounter is going to be in roughly the same position so they can defend themselves against a long range ECM/Sniper combination. The range that pulse lasers give you is not sufficient to defend yourself from an ewar/sniper gang anyway, so the argument that its range helps you there is lacking.
Even if the other RR gang is not at zero on the gate or station, they are going to be in a single blob not moving; so that they themselves can take advantage of their RR. If they're not then they've given up the advantage of RR. This means, at the very most, you're going to have a single burn to get to your targets, and not multiple burns. That, or you're going to organize a warp. (or disengage, you can do that since you're at zero on a gate)
2. With the combats that you're likely to engage at around 30-50km you are going to have a large advantage in real DPS (since you can rep and the other guys can't) nearly no matter the gang that comes in. That isn't to say that lasers aren't at an advantage here, they can change to engage at that range faster, and hit a lot better, but it is to say that the advantage you're describing is overblown.
Quote:
Why would I say that? Well, because even if you get a fleet of RR blaster megas out (and somehow they miraculously stay in RR range of each other in a fight...) then they're wtfpwnt the moment anything even slightly faster than them comes up. Like, say, interceptors. Or HACs. Or BC's. Or hell, anything. The engagement range is so short with blasters, and they're so terribly gimped by tracking and webs that the decision to fly them at all is dubious, and the decision to fly them in a RR gang is utter ******ation!
1. You track just fine over 10km with a blaster Mega. In fact you track a lot better than an Abaddon. If the speed of the enemy is at issue, then the mega is probably the better bet. Not the least of it since enough people can fit a web (or a scrambler, or both) to slow down enemies sufficiently to kill them.
The megathron has the highest raw tracking of any battleship when it fits blasters(provided the same tier of weapons is used). So long as a total of 3 webs are in your gang, there is no battleship gang in the game that has a better chance of hitting small targets at any range and transversal that these small targets are going to intentionally operate.
2. You're just as screwed against LR HACs/BC's/whatever with a pulse Abaddon. Unless you're saying you're going to fit Beams on your RR Abaddon...(you thought your cap was bad now...)
If you are saying that you've got to be fitting beams then the entire complaint is foolish anyway, because it turns out that beams are not pulse lasers, so the complaints that pulse ships are so much better RR BS loses a lot of their oomph.
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Childstar
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Posted - 2009.04.09 07:11:00 -
[1688]
Originally by: NightmareX
1. Why do you even tell us that the normal Mega and Navy mega are doing the same DPS, when it's clearly that they always have done that?.
Because it shows that the only thing you get for your 600ish mil is the same dmg output as a standard mega but a little more EHP and even that is only a little more than the abaddon.
Originally by: NightmareX
3. Did we talk about comparing the damage output to the Mega and the Navy Mega there?, or did i compare the damage output there between the Navy Mega and the Abaddon there?.
We already knew what the dmg output from the navy mega would be cos its exactly the same as the normal mega with the same fit.
Originally by: NightmareX
4. I don't want to read through 30+ pages just to find the reply you said it.
The navy mega was not discussed for 30 pages stop exhagerating, and if you want to find the dmg figures i posted look on pg51 in posts 1530 and 1535.
Originally by: NightmareX
5. Do i care if it cost 600 mill isk?. If i want to do the best DPS, have a very high EHP and can do RR combined, then yes, i choose the best i can find for that.
If i want the best ship for RR gangs, then i buy it no matter what.
Well you messed up cost its dps woulkd suck due to range and its tank was crap compared to how much it would get primaried.
And you never have used such a ship in pvp on TQ either, so what you were looking for was to win a argument ANY argument like a child having a tantrum.
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Nikuno
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Posted - 2009.04.09 07:13:00 -
[1689]
RR fleets are not the biggest threat to other RR fleets, ranged fleets with ecm are. Even under the coming ecm changes, this will still be the case for blaster, autocannon, and torp fitted ships with the shortest ranges suffering most.
The current tinkering with agility bonuses demonstrates that CCP know there's a problem with BS fighting under the reduced web effects and they're now caught between wanting to drop ship agility to allow better tackling opportunities but realising that this will hit close range tracking between moving targets. Until something is done to resolve this tracking issue then blasters and autocannons will continue to be sub-par, and pulse lasers will come to dominate this fighting range more and more as they are the only large turret with sufficient range to mitigate the problem to any acceptable degree.
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Childstar
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Posted - 2009.04.09 07:15:00 -
[1690]
Originally by: Goumindong
Originally by: Childstar
No we do not know anything because we are assuming that the mega is at perfect optimal for the entire of the fight against every ship it faces without using its mwd ever, that it is being shot at by only laser ships ever and that it is only shooting back at laser ships ever.
This is not true, we are simply defining the game.
It is exactly true, you are defining the game to be a impossability of range, cap usage and time.
Originally by: Goumindong
Originally by: Childstar
We are also assuming that your base figures are correct and that i highly doubt tbh.
If you don't believe me. Check them. turn all their stuff on except the MWD's.
No need to say anymore after that silly statment when you are discussing blasters tbh.
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Childstar
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Posted - 2009.04.09 07:26:00 -
[1691]
Originally by: Goumindong
First off, the effective range of the megathrons in question is over 25km. They hit 27km with their blasters at optimal + falloff with t2 long range ammo and 30+30 with the Gardes. No one is suggesting(except you) that anyone is going to be MWDing between primary targets.
If that is true then redo your figures using NULL not faction anti matter at its perfect optimal.
Originally by: Goumindong
Second off, the majority of combat that it matters for is going to happen at ranges around 5km. DPS at 30km is not nearly as important in an RR fleet as it is at <5km. The reasons for this are twofold.
Rubbish it will happen where it happens and that is gaurenteed for MOST if not ALL of the ships NOT to be at 5km.
Originally by: Goumindong
Even if the other RR gang is not at zero on the gate or station, they are going to be in a single blob not moving; so that they themselves can take advantage of their RR. If they're not then they've given up the advantage of RR. This means, at the very most, you're going to have a single burn to get to your targets, and not multiple burns. That, or you're going to organize a warp. (or disengage, you can do that since you're at zero on a gate)
They can be as far as 8+km away from each other let alone hostile ships, so for a bunch of other BS to ALL get to a perfect 4.5km optimal of them while also getting into RR range of each other is impossable.
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
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Posted - 2009.04.09 12:35:00 -
[1692]
Edited by: NightmareX on 09/04/2009 12:36:39
Originally by: Childstar
Edited by: Childstar on 09/04/2009 08:33:38
Originally by: NightmareX
1. Why do you even tell us that the normal Mega and Navy mega are doing the same DPS, when it's clearly that they always have done that?.
Because it shows that the only thing you get for your 600ish mil is the same dmg output as a standard mega but a little more EHP and even that is only a little more than the abaddon.
Originally by: NightmareX
3. Did we talk about comparing the damage output to the Mega and the Navy Mega there?, or did i compare the damage output there between the Navy Mega and the Abaddon there?.
We already knew what the dmg output from the navy mega would be cos its exactly the same as the normal mega with the same fit.
Originally by: NightmareX
4. I don't want to read through 30+ pages just to find the reply you said it.
The navy mega was not discussed for 30 pages stop exhagerating, and if you want to find the dmg figures i posted look on pg51 in posts 1530 and 1535.
So EXPLIAN why i would point out the exact figures in those posts and then afterwards according to you change my mind and contradict myself, a accusation that you have made but have given 0 proof to back up.
I think you either misread one of my posts and hit EMO red line and ranted off DPS figures in your haste to win any sort of argument, or you are just lying yet again about the whole thing, so proof/link to me saying what you claim or STFU.
Oh and i honestly think on this occasion you made a reading error on one of my posts and are not deliberatly lying.
Originally by: NightmareX
5. Do i care if it cost 600 mill isk?. If i want to do the best DPS, have a very high EHP and can do RR combined, then yes, i choose the best i can find for that.
If i want the best ship for RR gangs, then i buy it no matter what.
Well you messed up cost its dps woulkd suck due to range and its tank was crap compared to how much it would get primaried.
And you never have used such a ship in pvp on TQ either, so what you were looking for was to win a argument ANY argument like a child having a tantrum.
1. A little more EHP?. LOL. Have you seen how much difference it is with the same low slot setup from the Navy Mega to the normal Mega?. Just take one 1600mm plate away because the normal mega have one lesser low slot.
I will not just call that a little more EHP.
2. Yeah and why even talk about that then?.
3. I know it wasn't for 30 pages, but was still a point that i didn't want to go through lots of pages just to find it where you mentioned it.
4. I have given enough proofs anyways on why i choose a Navy Mega over an Abaddon any days. Simply, the Abaddon is not good enough. It sucks compared to the Navy Mega.
5. Yeah oh wow, i just missreaded one post. How many posts from me have you been reading totally wrong lol?.
6. Still, i'm a close range fighter that fights within 10 km anyways when i'm using a Mega / Navy Mega, so i don't care how much longer range the Lasers have on your Abaddon. If i'm 95% of my time in the 10 km range, then yeah, a Mega or Navy Mega is my best ships in RR gangs.
7. I haven't used my Navy Mega yet in PVP because of my sec status. But just wait until i have the time to take my security status up to -1.9. Then i'm going to use it in PVP. And i don't care if it dies, because if it dies then it dies. And i'm just buying me a new one then. Maybe not with such expensive setup as i have on it now though.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Childstar
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Posted - 2009.04.09 13:37:00 -
[1693]
Edited by: Childstar on 09/04/2009 13:41:17
Originally by: NightmareX
1. A little more EHP?. LOL. Have you seen how much difference it is with the same low slot setup from the Navy Mega to the normal Mega?. Just take one 1600mm plate away because the normal mega have one lesser low slot.
I will not just call that a little more EHP.
Then considering the abaddon gets roughly the same give or take a few thousand you can understand how much the standard mega needs help.
Originally by: NightmareX
2. Yeah and why even talk about that then?.
Because if im going to pay 550-600 million for a ship and fittings instead of 150-180 id not just want it to have more tank, especially when that more tank was only a few thousand more than my opositions that paid a bucket tonne less.
Originally by: NightmareX
3. I know it wasn't for 30 pages, but was still a point that i didn't want to go through lots of pages just to find it where you mentioned it.
Have you considered that exhagerating all the time is not such a good idea in topics that involve precise figures and statistics?.
Originally by: NightmareX
4. I have given enough proofs anyways on why i choose a Navy Mega over an Abaddon any days. Simply, the Abaddon is not good enough. It sucks compared to the Navy Mega.
On paper at 4.5km id agree in fact my posts on page 51 show that clearly, but on TQ in gang combat your fit on the navy mega would be a poor choice as it would just be a expensive loss mail.
Originally by: NightmareX
5. Yeah oh wow, i just missreaded one post. How many posts from me have you been reading totally wrong lol?.
I have no idea but im sure it has been a few times i have misinterpreted you and visa versa, although id attribute it on both sides to the fact that your english being very good is sometimes just slightly phrased wrong, and as such on occcasion i can interpret what you have posted and you can interpret what i have posted incorrectly.
I mean no disrespect nor critasism or blame towards you in this regard it is mearly a observation, especially considering i would not know where to begin if i had to make posts in a non english/native launguage.
Originally by: NightmareX
6. Still, i'm a close range fighter that fights within 10 km anyways when i'm using a Mega / Navy Mega, so i don't care how much longer range the Lasers have on your Abaddon. If i'm 95% of my time in the 10 km range, then yeah, a Mega or Navy Mega is my best ships in RR gangs.
If in eve on TQ a player could pick and choose their fights so that 95% of the time it was 1 v 1 BS without worrying about reinforcments and at a range of under 10km and also get that sort of PVP regularly i woulds still think the mega needs more CPU and that gallente needed a good gunnery gang ship.
But you can NEVER gaurente that range even 25% of the time even if you did find another BS on its own looking for 1 v 1, and in gang combat RR or not you may get lucky and land at your optimal on one ship, but pilots in eve are not stupid (at least some of them are not) and they will never sit toe to toe with a mega or hyperion waiting for their turn to be primary and its naive to think they would.
Originally by: NightmareX
I haven't used my Navy Mega yet in PVP because of my sec status. But just wait until i have the time to take my security status up to -1.9. Then i'm going to use it in PVP.
Its easy enough to get a ship moved accross empire if you really wanted to pvp in it or you could easily get your sec status up in just a few hours by speed ratting/system hopping, lets face it you have been posting about that setup for a long time now in many much older threads than this.
And you also have used it on sissi in FD- so you obviosly do not have such problems moving it accross empire on the test server.
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
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Posted - 2009.04.09 14:34:00 -
[1694]
Edited by: NightmareX on 09/04/2009 14:37:00
This is a reply to you Childstar.
1. I would not say the Megathron is bad, i will rather say the Abaddon is to overpowered.
And only because an Abaddon (tier 3) ship have better stats than the Megathron (tier 2), it doesn't automaticly means the Abaddn is better when it's about combat. In stats the Abaddon is better.
2. You still know that the more EHP the better the ship is for RR gangs right?. I don't care if i can get a normal Mega to 180 mill isk when i can get a fuk ton better ship with a Navy Mega.
3. Don't talk about precise figures and statistic. You should first of all start to learn to read before and also make sure you does the maths right and before you comes with some stats lol.
4. If you fit the Navy mega right, it wont be that of an easy loss mail. Believe me.
I agree that Navy Megas with fail fits dies fast. But not if you fit it like my TQ setup. My setup is like most would fit a Navy Mega, with one damage mod.
5. Yes English is not my main launguage, but as you read my posts many times and replies to them, then i don't know, but i feel that your not very good at reading what i write in English.
6. Yes, as i have said earlier, the only boost the normal Mega needs is a CPU boost. Do that and you can then fit much better setups on the Mega. Problem solved then.
7. I both agree and doesn't agree to some of that.
8. I take the security really serious. I'll never lend my Navy Mega (not with the setup i have on it now) to anyone to move the ship for me. If someone is going to move the ship, it's my self. And i hope you understand why i take the security over the ship very serious.
9. That's right. Just jump into the 'moveme' channel on sisi and you will be moved from anywhere to FD- as long the local in FD- is not over 100. So i'll just move to the system in empire where i have my Navy Mega in a shuttle, then jumps into the Navy Mega in station, and then waits to get moved.
But i still know how the ship is. I asked one in a geddon to fit up a gank fit just to see how long time he would use to take my armor to 25%. LOL, the 1200+ DPS gank geddon gave up on shooting me before he even reached 65%. Took him like 10 mins to get there heh.
So in short, you need a butt load of battleships if you want to kill my Navy Mega with the setup i have now fast.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Childstar
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Posted - 2009.04.09 15:04:00 -
[1695]
Edited by: Childstar on 09/04/2009 15:10:34
Originally by: NightmareX
1. I would not say the Megathron is bad, i will rather say the Abaddon is to overpowered.
And only because an Abaddon (tier 3) ship have better stats than the Megathron (tier 2), it doesn't automaticly means the Abaddon is better when it's about combat. In stats the Abaddon is better.
Nerfing the abaddon will not solve the blaster or mega/hyperion issues.
Originally by: NightmareX
You still know that the more EHP the better the ship is for RR gangs right?. I don't care if i can get a normal Mega to 180 mill isk when i can get a fuk ton better ship with a Navy Mega.
That is a easy claim to make when you never have used one, if you pvp'd in one regularly with your fit you would lose it a lot of the time you got into a gang v gang battle, and eventually ditch the idea.
You are not even close to being as rich as some ppl in eve and even they would not waste isk flying in a navy mega the way you fitted it. Originally by: NightmareX
Don't talk about precise figures and statistic. You should first of all start to learn to read before and also make sure you does the maths right and before you comes with some stats lol.
Considering the sheer amount of stats, fits and math i have done on here its hardly supprising that a few small mistakes would crop up, but i always correct them and never deliberatly fake or gimp a fit to try and mislead.
You on the other hand have avoided fitting a entire rack of mid slots because it showed that the tank you were claiming to be able to fit was not possable, it took loads of posts just to get you to admit it.
And that was not a mistake it was a deliberate avoidance to fudge results. Originally by: NightmareX
4. If you fit the Navy mega right, it wont be that of an easy loss mail. Believe me.
But you did not fit it right and the crappy fit was the fit being discussed.
Originally by: NightmareX
Yes, as i have said earlier, the only boost the normal Mega needs is a CPU boost. Do that and you can then fit much better setups on the Mega. Problem solved then.
I would not say it was problem solved but it would at least be a start.
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
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Posted - 2009.04.09 15:21:00 -
[1696]
Edited by: NightmareX on 09/04/2009 15:24:02
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: NightmareX
1. I would not say the Megathron is bad, i will rather say the Abaddon is to overpowered.
And only because an Abaddon (tier 3) ship have better stats than the Megathron (tier 2), it doesn't automaticly means the Abaddon is better when it's about combat. In stats the Abaddon is better.
Nerfing the abaddon will not solve the blaster or mega/hyperion issues.
Originally by: NightmareX
You still know that the more EHP the better the ship is for RR gangs right?. I don't care if i can get a normal Mega to 180 mill isk when i can get a fuk ton better ship with a Navy Mega.
That is a easy claim to make when you never have used one, if you pvp'd in one regularly with your fit you would lose it every time you got into a gang v gang battle. Originally by: NightmareX
Don't talk about precise figures and statistic. You should first of all start to learn to read before and also make sure you does the maths right and before you comes with some stats lol.
Considering the sheer amount of stats, fits and math i have done on here its hardly supprising that a few small mistakes would crop up, but i always correct them and never deliberatly fake or gimp a fit to try and mislead. Originally by: NightmareX
4. If you fit the Navy mega right, it wont be that of an easy loss mail. Believe me.
But you did not fit it right and the crappy fit was the fit being discussed.
Originally by: NightmareX
Yes, as i have said earlier, the only boost the normal Mega needs is a CPU boost. Do that and you can then fit much better setups on the Mega. Problem solved then.
I would not say it was problem solved but it would at least be a start.
1. By thinking more about it, i don't think the Abaddon is the thing that need to be nerfed, it's more the Scorch ammo that need to be nerfed. Because when you compare the stats you have on the Scorch over what you get with Null, then yeah, the Scorch is a bit tad better than Null.
Null have x1.25 in optimal range while Sxorch have x1.50. If the Scorch gets down to x1.25, then it will be much better.
Because giving Scorch such huge optimal range bunus while the Lasers already have pretty long range on the Lasers is kinda meh.
2. I don't need to use the Navy Mega to know that. Because everyone says the more EHP you have in an RR gang the better it is.
3. Yes, that's fine. I have never done mistakes on my calculations / maths though.
4. I only fitted your crappy setup ONLY because you wouldn't use anything else than 3x damage mods. But i still said that my setups was much much better, and they are by miles.
5. If you think about the range a Blaster Mega have, then no, the Blaster Megathron have always been a very close range ship and it will still be it forever. And i don't take this as a problem at all.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Childstar
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Posted - 2009.04.09 15:38:00 -
[1697]
Originally by: NightmareX
1. By thinking more about it, i don't think the Abaddon is the thing that need to be nerfed, it's more the Scorch ammo that need to be nerfed. Because when you compare the stats you have on the Scorch over what you get with Null, then yeah, the Scorch is a bit tad better than Null.
Null have x1.25 in optimal range while Sxorch have x1.50. If the Scorch gets down to x1.25 or 1.20, then it will be much better.
Because giving Scorch such huge optimal range bunus while the lasers already have pretty long range on the Lasers is kinda meh.
I still do not see how that helps blasters and the mega/hyperion, especially when you consider the MF has a longer optimal than NULL by 4km although slightly less falloff.
Originally by: NightmareX
2. I don't need to use the Navy Mega to know that. Because everyone says the more EHP you have in an RR gang the better it is.
Against a known number of ships and fitted correctly the navy mega is a good bait ship, but in the sort of larger scale RR fighting that happens on TQ its a expensive loss mail.
Originally by: NightmareX
3. Yes, that's fine. I have never done mistakes on my calculations / maths though.
You rarely do math, but you are right you do not make mistakes as you have actually deliberatly misled and posted part fittings..there was no mistake about it unless you count the fact that you thought you would not get caught.
Originally by: NightmareX
I only fitted your crappy setup ONLY because you wouldn't use anything else than 3x damage mods. But i still said that my setups was much much better, and they are by miles.
The abad can get away with it, the ships you used cannot but you tried for pages to claim they were the best when they were a waste of isk on the navy mega and had a totally crappy tank on the std mega.
Originally by: NightmareX
If you think about the range a Blaster Mega have, then no, the Blaster Megathron have always been a very close range ship and it will still be it forever. And i don't take this as a problem at all.
Nobody is asking for blasters to have more range, just that the mega gets enough pg and cpu to be fitted reasonably well, and blasters have the tracking to hit at the uber close ranges they operate in and that they do a bit more dmg at the 10-20km ranges so they are a little better in gangs and do not need to fit rails (that reaaaly cause fitting issues) or burn out cap by mwding all the time.
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
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Posted - 2009.04.09 16:18:00 -
[1698]
Originally by: Childstar
Edited by: Childstar on 09/04/2009 15:52:31
Originally by: NightmareX
1. By thinking more about it, i don't think the Abaddon is the thing that need to be nerfed, it's more the Scorch ammo that need to be nerfed. Because when you compare the stats you have on the Scorch over what you get with Null, then yeah, the Scorch is a bit tad better than Null.
Null have x1.25 in optimal range while Sxorch have x1.50. If the Scorch gets down to x1.25 or 1.20, then it will be much better.
Because giving Scorch such huge optimal range bunus while the lasers already have pretty long range on the Lasers is kinda meh.
I still do not see how that helps blasters and the mega/hyperion, especially when you consider the MF has a longer optimal than NULL by 4km although slightly less falloff.
Originally by: NightmareX
2. I don't need to use the Navy Mega to know that. Because everyone says the more EHP you have in an RR gang the better it is.
Against a known number of ships and fitted correctly the navy mega is a good bait ship, but in the sort of larger scale RR fighting that happens on TQ its a expensive loss mail.
Originally by: NightmareX
3. Yes, that's fine. I have never done mistakes on my calculations / maths though.
You rarely do math, but you are right you do not make mistakes as you have actually deliberatly misled and posted part fittings that showed stats that could not be got if other slots were filled with mods.....there was no "mistake" about it unless you count the fact that you thought you would not get caught.
Originally by: NightmareX
I only fitted your crappy setup ONLY because you wouldn't use anything else than 3x damage mods. But i still said that my setups was much much better, and they are by miles.
The abad can get away with it, the ships you used cannot but you tried for pages to claim they were the best when they were a waste of isk on the navy mega and had a totally crappy tank on the std mega.
Originally by: NightmareX
If you think about the range a Blaster Mega have, then no, the Blaster Megathron have always been a very close range ship and it will still be it forever. And i don't take this as a problem at all.
Nobody is asking for blasters to have more range, just that the mega gets enough pg and cpu to be fitted reasonably well, and blasters have the tracking to hit at the uber close ranges they operate in and that they do a bit more dmg at the 10-20km ranges so they are a little better in gangs and do not need to fit rails (that reaaaly cause fitting issues) or burn out cap by mwding all the time.
1. It helps a little bit. Something is better than nothing.
2. The Navy Mega is mainly a ship that should have huge EHP while it can do great DPS.
3. I would still not do mistakes on my maths even if i had been doing as much maths as you.
4. Yeah the Abaddon can get away with it, and it's one advantage the ship have. But still by that, it doesn't mean the ship is any better than other t1 bs'es because of that.
5. The powergrid is not the problem with the Mega, it's the CPU that is the problem. You see, the Mega can easily fit a Heavy Capacitor Booster II on the ship with 7x Neutrons and 1x RR and one 100mn MWD II if we use some ANP's instead of the EANM's.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Childstar
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Posted - 2009.04.09 16:31:00 -
[1699]
Originally by: NightmareX
I would still not do mistakes on my maths even if i had been doing as much maths as you.
Yea yea, your good at claiming you would do things you never do....
Originally by: NightmareX
Yeah the Abaddon can get away with it, and it's one advantage the ship have. But still by that, it doesn't mean the ship is any better than other t1 bs'es because of that.
No its not just that, but combined with the dmg and range of MF/pulse, as well as the range and dmg of scorch/pulse as well as the total EASE with witch it can fit along with its resist bonus makes it the BEST gang std BS in the game for the regularly available forms of pvp on TQ.
Originally by: NightmareX
The powergrid is not the problem with the Mega, it's the CPU that is the problem. You see, the Mega can easily fit a Heavy Capacitor Booster II on the ship with 7x Neutrons and 1x RR and one 100mn MWD II if we use some ANP's instead of the EANM's.
I know how to fit a mega, it was you who needed showing.
The mega needs CPU for certain, the hype needs PG and maybe cpu as well and blasters need buffing in certain ways as well.
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Goumindong
Amarr
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.04.09 16:56:00 -
[1700]
Originally by: Nikuno
RR fleets are not the biggest threat to other RR fleets, ranged fleets with ecm are. Even under the coming ecm changes, this will still be the case for blaster, autocannon, and torp fitted ships with the shortest ranges suffering most.
Pulse lasers have the same vulnerability, they do not have the range to hit the new ECM ships or sniping fleets. If you're saying that lasers are better because they can defend themselves from sniping fleets you're entirely wrong.
Originally by: Childstar
Then why always use faction AM dmg output at optimal???.....fudging figures much?.
Nope, the majority of fights where your DPS is going to really matter is going to be in those ranges.
Go ahead and stick null in there though and see what happens. I think that the blaster user will be pleasantly surprised.
Quote:
Rubbish it will happen where it happens and that is gaurenteed for MOST of the ships NOT to be at 5km or below it.
Yet you have no support for this, and all the complaints of "omg they're over 8km apart from each other just nullify your ability to use RR"
Originally by: Childstar
A group of BS cannot approach each other within 8km AND every hostile ship in the oposing gang at the same time, nor can it do either one seperatly without burning buckets of cap when the oposing gangs ships can be 8+km apart from each other.
Look, if the opposing gang is 8+km apart then the opposing gang is not RRing. At that point you aren't going to much care where they are unless they're over 30->40km(over 40km your damage really does start to fall off). And if they're over 30-40km then you just leave. Because when you have RR ability and the other guy doesn't, you're going to win unless you're serverely outnumbered.
For instance, if they're at 30km and not RRing then after RR, 8 gun 3 HS abbaddons are doing 910 DPS with scorch and 3 gardes. Each mega reps 551 of that for an ending damage of 360 RAW DPS. Each mega will be doing roughly 524 RAW dps at that range(300 from the gardes, 220 from the guns), a 45% increase(since the abaddons can't rr being over 8.5km from each other)
You've got to really spread out if you want to make that work, to the point you're in ECM/sniping ships. And if your opponent is sniping, neither RR gang has an advantage.
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
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Posted - 2009.04.09 17:00:00 -
[1701]
Edited by: NightmareX on 09/04/2009 17:05:34
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: NightmareX
I would still not do mistakes on my maths even if i had been doing as much maths as you.
Yea yea, your good at claiming you would do things you never do....
Originally by: NightmareX
Yeah the Abaddon can get away with it, and it's one advantage the ship have. But still by that, it doesn't mean the ship is any better than other t1 bs'es because of that.
No its not just that, but combined with the dmg and range of MF/pulse, as well as the range and dmg of scorch/pulse as well as the total EASE with witch it can fit along with its resist bonus makes it the BEST gang std BS in the game for the regularly available forms of pvp on TQ.
Originally by: NightmareX
The powergrid is not the problem with the Mega, it's the CPU that is the problem. You see, the Mega can easily fit a Heavy Capacitor Booster II on the ship with 7x Neutrons and 1x RR and one 100mn MWD II if we use some ANP's instead of the EANM's.
I know how to fit a mega, it was you who needed showing.
The mega needs CPU for certain, the hype needs PG and maybe cpu as well and blasters need buffing in certain ways as well.
1. Hey, if your good at reading me wrong all the time, then i can be good at doing maths. I want to be good at something to lol.
2. But why is so few Abaddons used in RR gangs then?. That's what i wonder on why there are so few. There must be something bad with the Abaddon when so few want to use it in RR gangs.
3. I'm not a pro in EFT, so i can't just figure out all of the stats without using EFT.
4. There is quite some things that need to be fixed before Blasters is touched. First we have the CPU on the Mega, then we have the powergrid on the Hype (but i can't say for sure that it needs that yet, because i haven't tried the Hyperion much). And then Autocannons needs to be looked at before the Blasters.
So when that's done, then Blasters can get some love i think. But before that, no.
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Traderboz
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Posted - 2009.04.09 17:17:00 -
[1702]
Honestly I would say just leave the Navy Mega out of this discussion. There's really not much point comparing it to the Abaddon, and it doesn't matter how the discussion got started. :P
I'd tend to agree with Goumi in that you aren't going to be MWD'ing around non-stop, since you need to stay in range of your RR gang and if you're fighting another RR gang, they have to do the same. I would think though that blaster range becomes problematic when you're fighting a gang with longer range (as someone else suggested), but there are certainly ranges where the Abaddon can't hit as well, so the difference there comes I suppose when facing opponents between ~22 and ~60km (ranges where the Abaddon with scorch holds the advantage).
I think you guys should calculate the damage with Null, with CN Antimatter, with ANMulti and with Scorch, and paint the picture of what damage each ship does at certain ranges (EFT could graph this nicely I'm thinking). My guess would be that once you collect the numbers, Mega will do more damage within 10km, equal damage out to ~22km and then less damage once scorch takes over.
Of course, it's arguable as to which range you'll mostly be fighting at, but that's not something that we can easily settle (everyone has their opinion on that issue it seems, haha). At least then you'd have some data to work with, rather than arguing back and forth about "You said this!", "No I said this", "You you didn't", "Well I said that, but in this context", etc.
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
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Posted - 2009.04.09 17:43:00 -
[1703]
Edited by: NightmareX on 09/04/2009 17:45:18
Originally by: Traderboz
Honestly I would say just leave the Navy Mega out of this discussion. There's really not much point comparing it to the Abaddon, and it doesn't matter how the discussion got started. :P
I'd tend to agree with Goumi in that you aren't going to be MWD'ing around non-stop, since you need to stay in range of your RR gang and if you're fighting another RR gang, they have to do the same. I would think though that blaster range becomes problematic when you're fighting a gang with longer range (as someone else suggested), but there are certainly ranges where the Abaddon can't hit as well, so the difference there comes I suppose when facing opponents between ~22 and ~60km (ranges where the Abaddon with scorch holds the advantage).
I think you guys should calculate the damage with Null, with CN Antimatter, with ANMulti and with Scorch, and paint the picture of what damage each ship does at certain ranges (EFT could graph this nicely I'm thinking). My guess would be that once you collect the numbers, Mega will do more damage within 10km, equal damage out to ~22km and then less damage once scorch takes over.
Of course, it's arguable as to which range you'll mostly be fighting at, but that's not something that we can easily settle (everyone has their opinion on that issue it seems, haha). At least then you'd have some data to work with, rather than arguing back and forth about "You said this!", "No I said this", "You you didn't", "Well I said that, but in this context", etc.
Well one of the reasons i wont train for Amarr, is because they have NO faction BS'es that are meant for close range as Navy Megathron is.
And the only reason i would have to train for Amarr Battleship skill and Laser skills is because of the Nightmare. But atm i don't really like the ship so much anyways.
And Amarr have the most boring ships to. And Amarr are generally the easiest race to use today. And that's also extremely boring.
And also when someone in this topic are comparing a tier 2 ship that have much lower stats to a tier 3 ship that have much better stats, then i can compare a faction BS to an Abaddon.
But tbh, the Gallente BS ship that should be compared to the Abaddon when it's about stats is the Hyperion.
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Childstar
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Posted - 2009.04.09 17:50:00 -
[1704]
Originally by: Traderboz
I think you guys should calculate the damage with Null, with CN Antimatter, with ANMulti and with Scorch, and paint the picture of what damage each ship does at certain ranges (EFT could graph this nicely I'm thinking). My guess would be that once you collect the numbers, Mega will do more damage within 10km, equal damage out to ~22km and then less damage once scorch takes over.
The have been done and the mega started losing at 9km.
Also the resistances used on the target ships were rather out dated and biased in favor of blasters considering contemporary and available BS tanks.
They also did not show just how much the mega suffered from not being able to fit the tank used due to CPU issues as it can only fit a weaker one, nor did it show the LARGE explosive hole the available mega tank has.
It also did not show that the abaddon has a resist bonus per lvl so has much much better coverage.
Remember this is not a laser BS vs blaster BS thread although laser BS are being used as a yard stick, it is a blaster/blaster BS thread and is here to show their many many issues with todays eve.
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
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Posted - 2009.04.09 18:09:00 -
[1705]
Edited by: NightmareX on 09/04/2009 18:15:00
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: Traderboz
I think you guys should calculate the damage with Null, with CN Antimatter, with ANMulti and with Scorch, and paint the picture of what damage each ship does at certain ranges (EFT could graph this nicely I'm thinking). My guess would be that once you collect the numbers, Mega will do more damage within 10km, equal damage out to ~22km and then less damage once scorch takes over.
The have been done and the mega started losing at 9km.
Also the resistances used on the target ships were rather out dated and biased in favor of blasters considering contemporary and available BS tanks.
They also did not show just how much the mega suffered from not being able to fit the tank used due to CPU issues as it can only fit a weaker one, nor did it show the LARGE explosive hole the available mega tank has.
It also did not show that the abaddon has a resist bonus per lvl so has much much better coverage.
Remember this is not a laser BS vs blaster BS thread although laser BS are being used as a yard stick, it is a blaster/blaster BS thread and is here to show their many many issues with todays eve.
To be totally honest here, i think the Abaddon have 2 things that are waaaaaaay more bad than having the explosive resist hold and a bit lower EHP on the Mega.
First the Abaddon have ****ty tracking and can't hit for sh*t when things start to orbit the ship and it's starting to lose lots of damage when other ships moves to. And it's HUUUGE cap usage on Pulses is also way more dangerous to me than the 2 things with the Mega. Because you have to use cap boosters all the time to be able to keep up with the cap usage on the guns, so you don't run out of cap.
And it's getting even much more failure if you have to use MWD to on the Abaddon.
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Childstar
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Posted - 2009.04.09 18:28:00 -
[1706]
Edited by: Childstar on 09/04/2009 18:29:46
It has been shown many times that pulse have no problem at all hitting other BS or BC that are orbiting them, and in gang combat their are lots of webs to slow smaller ships that get close.
So tracking is not a issue.
The rail mega has a better cap managment than the abaddon due to it not needing to MWD around like the blaster mega does although it needs a cap injector as well to properly and effectivly function. And both the rail mega and the pulse abaddon will run out of charges long before they run out of cap just using guns and all the mid slot mods apart from the mwd (that they do not need to use as they have high available DMG range).
The blaster mega however is another matter as its available range forces it to burn its MWD a lot if it is going to keep its damage to a reasonably high level.
As far as cap is concerned the rail mega is better than the abaddon although they both are cap stable until they run out of charges, but if the blasters are used the cap issues can be crippling from using the MWD or if you choose not to MWD the dmg is poor.
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
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Posted - 2009.04.09 19:50:00 -
[1707]
Edited by: NightmareX on 09/04/2009 19:55:16
Originally by: Childstar
Edited by: Childstar on 09/04/2009 18:29:46
It has been shown many times that pulse have no problem at all hitting other BS or BC that are orbiting them, and in gang combat their are lots of webs to slow smaller ships that get close.
So tracking is not a issue.
The rail mega has a better cap managment than the abaddon due to it not needing to MWD around like the blaster mega does although it needs a cap injector as well to properly and effectivly function. And both the rail mega and the pulse abaddon will run out of charges long before they run out of cap just using guns and all the mid slot mods apart from the mwd (that they do not need to use as they have high available DMG range).
The blaster mega however is another matter as its available range forces it to burn its MWD a lot if it is going to keep its damage to a reasonably high level.
As far as cap is concerned the rail mega is better than the abaddon although they both are cap stable until they run out of charges, but if the blasters are used the cap issues can be crippling from using the MWD or if you choose not to MWD the dmg is poor.
Pulses on an Abaddon doesn't have tracking issues? LOL. Maybe not at longer ranges, but in close combat, thery for sure have tracking issues.
Well maybe not while shooting BS'es, but try to hit a Hurricane that orbits you with the Pulse Abaddon, and then you do the same in a Blaster Mega.
What ship of the Abaddon and the Mega is going to kill the Hurricane first?.
The Blaster Mega will kill the Hurricane ages before the Abaddon does. That's why i say the tracking sucks on the Abaddon with Pulses.
And i got to see how terribly crap the tracking is on the Abaddon is when i tried it on sisi yesterday. I couldn't hit much when targets was moving around when they was in the web range to me. I did hit them, but i LOL'd at the damage i got on them.
The tracking on the Pulses on the Abaddon have 0.04219 while the Neutron Mega have 0.07442.
And by that, the Megathron with Neutrons have 76-77% better tracking than the Pulse Abaddon.
Don't tell me that Abaddon doesn't have tracking issues when peoples here on the forum here already want a tracking boost to the Large Blasters, while the Neutron already have better tracking than Pulses before bonuses.
So by that, i rather take the explosive resist hole and the lower EHP ANY DAYS on a Blaster Mega over the crap tracking Pulses have on the Abaddon.
And no, the Abaddon is not cap stable at all when it use 2400 cap every 43 secs ONLY by guns. And you have to use cap boosters all the time to keep the cap up at a good level, if not, your mostlikely to cap out after a short time while you wait for the cap boosters to be used.
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Childstar
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Posted - 2009.04.09 20:10:00 -
[1708]
Edited by: Childstar on 09/04/2009 20:13:59
Originally by: NightmareX
Pulses on an Abaddon doesn't have tracking issues? LOL. Maybe not at longer ranges, but in close combat, thery for sure have tracking issues.
Well maybe not while shooting BS'es, but try to hit a Hurricane that orbits you with the Pulse Abaddon, and then you do the same in a Blaster Mega.
What ship of the Abaddon and the Mega is going to kill the Hurricane first?.
Who cares?... as you have said in this thread many times already 1 v 1 stats are irrelavant. And in gang combat any target ship will be well and truly webbed as well as have transversal relative to very few ships.
Originally by: NightmareX
The tracking on the Pulses on the Abaddon have 0.04219 while the Neutron Mega have 0.07442.
And by that, the Megathron with Neutrons have 76-77% better tracking than the Pulse Abaddon.
The mega with rails and faction AM has a tracking of 0.01653 and yet they are used in RR gangs a lot by many alliances.....including your own as you were told in this very thread.
Originally by: NightmareX
Don't tell me that Abaddon doesn't have tracking issues when peoples here on the forum here already want a tracking boost to the Large Blasters, while the Neutron already have better tracking than Pulses before bonuses.
The tracking boost is because the hyperion and mega are supposed to be effective solo BS and since the web nerf they hit poorly at their optimals against small ships with only 1 web on them, they do not suffer from tracking issues in gang combat.
Originally by: NightmareX
And no, the Abaddon is not cap stable at all when it use 2400 cap every 43 secs ONLY by guns. And you have to use cap boosters all the time to keep the cap up at a good level, if not, your most likely to cap out after a short time while you wait for the cap boosters to be used.
It runs out of boosters before it runs out of cap is what i said so it is cap stable as long as it has boosters, it is not like the blaster ship that can run out of cap before it runs out of boosters due to mwding.
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
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Posted - 2009.04.09 20:26:00 -
[1709]
Edited by: NightmareX on 09/04/2009 20:26:35
Originally by: Childstar
Edited by: Childstar on 09/04/2009 20:13:59
Originally by: NightmareX
Pulses on an Abaddon doesn't have tracking issues? LOL. Maybe not at longer ranges, but in close combat, thery for sure have tracking issues.
Well maybe not while shooting BS'es, but try to hit a Hurricane that orbits you with the Pulse Abaddon, and then you do the same in a Blaster Mega.
What ship of the Abaddon and the Mega is going to kill the Hurricane first?.
Who cares?... as you have said in this thread many times already 1 v 1 stats are irrelavant. And in gang combat any target ship will be well and truly webbed as well as have transversal relative to very few ships.
Originally by: NightmareX
The tracking on the Pulses on the Abaddon have 0.04219 while the Neutron Mega have 0.07442.
And by that, the Megathron with Neutrons have 76-77% better tracking than the Pulse Abaddon.
The mega with rails and faction AM has a tracking of 0.01653 and yet they are used in RR gangs a lot by many alliances.....including your own as you were told in this very thread.
Originally by: NightmareX
Don't tell me that Abaddon doesn't have tracking issues when peoples here on the forum here already want a tracking boost to the Large Blasters, while the Neutron already have better tracking than Pulses before bonuses.
The tracking boost is because the hyperion and mega are supposed to be effective solo BS and since the web nerf they hit poorly at their optimals against small ships with only 1 web on them, they do not suffer from tracking issues in gang combat.
Originally by: NightmareX
And no, the Abaddon is not cap stable at all when it use 2400 cap every 43 secs ONLY by guns. And you have to use cap boosters all the time to keep the cap up at a good level, if not, your most likely to cap out after a short time while you wait for the cap boosters to be used.
It runs out of boosters before it runs out of cap is what i said so it is cap stable as long as it has boosters, it is not like the blaster ship that can run out of cap before it runs out of boosters due to mwding.
1. I care, and i just made a valid point why i will never use an Abaddon when it comes to hitting smaller ships than BS'es.
2. Used by many alliances?, yeah, but where does those alliances do the PVP?. Not in empire or low sec, that's for sure.
When it's about 0.0 space, i see why rails are much used. But the thing that you don't see is that Blasters Megas are used waaaaaaaay more than Rail Megas with RR because like 75% of the EVE population in EVE are in empire and low sec. And because in empire and low sec is where Blasters and RR's are mostly used.
3. Yeah the Mega have good enough tracking to hit alot of ships. It's worser with the Abaddon. And the Hyperion still have better tracking with Ion's / Neutron's than Pulses have on an Abaddon.
4. Yeah it's all about how fast you om nom nom nom nom nom you cap boosters then. And i think that's pretty fast on an Abaddon.
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Childstar
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Posted - 2009.04.09 20:42:00 -
[1710]
Originally by: NightmareX
1. I care, and i just made a valid point why i will never use an Abaddon when it comes to hitting smaller ships than BS'es.
That is a broad comment and incorrect as the abaddon hit smaller targets fine in gang combat, its only in solo work it suffers but then so do blaster ships that is why ppl want the tracking buffed.
Originally by: NightmareX
Used by many alliances?, yeah, but where does those alliances do the PVP?.
0.0/lowsec/empire depending where they are tbh, but mostly 0.0.
Originally by: NightmareX
Not in empire or low sec, that's for sure.
A 0.0 alliance will still fight in low sec and empire if it wants or needs to.
Originally by: NightmareX
But the thing that you don't see is that Blasters Megas are used waaaaaaaay more than Rail Megas with RR
I have seen no proof of that tbh.
Originally by: NightmareX
because like 75% of the EVE population in EVE are in empire and low sec. And because in empire and low sec is where Blasters and RR's are mostly used.
75% of eve player base may or may not be in empire but that 75% are not all pvpers not even close, and the few percentage that are pvpers are not ALL gallente spec'd, and some of those that are gallente spec'd will use rails instead of blasters in gang v gang combat unless they are just ganking.
Originally by: NightmareX
Yeah it's all about how fast you om nom nom nom nom nom you cap boosters then. And i think that's pretty fast.
Run a MWD, blasters, just 1 x RR, point, web on your mega and then you will see om nom nom nom nom nom...
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
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Posted - 2009.04.09 20:57:00 -
[1711]
Edited by: NightmareX on 09/04/2009 21:03:19
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: NightmareX
1. I care, and i just made a valid point why i will never use an Abaddon when it comes to hitting smaller ships than BS'es.
That is a broad comment and incorrect as the abaddon hit smaller targets fine in gang combat, its only in solo work it suffers but then so do blaster ships that is why ppl want the tracking buffed.
Originally by: NightmareX
Used by many alliances?, yeah, but where does those alliances do the PVP?.
0.0/lowsec/empire depending where they are tbh, but mostly 0.0.
Originally by: NightmareX
Not in empire or low sec, that's for sure.
A 0.0 alliance will still fight in low sec and empire if it wants or needs to.
Originally by: NightmareX
But the thing that you don't see is that Blasters Megas are used waaaaaaaay more than Rail Megas with RR
I have seen no proof of that tbh.
Originally by: NightmareX
because like 75% of the EVE population in EVE are in empire and low sec. And because in empire and low sec is where Blasters and RR's are mostly used.
75% of eve player base may or may not be in empire but that 75% are not all pvpers not even close, and the few percentage that are pvpers are not ALL gallente spec'd, and some of those that are gallente spec'd will use rails instead of blasters in gang v gang combat unless they are just ganking.
Originally by: NightmareX
Yeah it's all about how fast you om nom nom nom nom nom you cap boosters then. And i think that's pretty fast.
Run a MWD, blasters, just 1 x RR, point, web on your mega and then you will see om nom nom nom nom nom...
1. Yeah the Abaddon is limited to only gang combat before the ship works good. The Abaddon is not even near the Megathron by million miles when it's about doing very small scale PVP.
And when it's about tracking, then yeah, if the tracking on the Blasters are gedding a buff, then Autocannons need that to.
2. Take an example, like the corp Atomic Battle Penguins (ABP), how often do you see they use Rails on their Megas when they do RR gangs in empire and low sec?. Never.
Yes the rail fitted Megas with RR are MOSTLY in 0.0 space.
3. Yeah but that was not what i was talking about. I was saying that there is not many at all in empire and low sec that use rails on their RR fitted Megas.
4. See point 2. If you use some few hours to look around killboards from corps that are in empire and low sec, and when you look at their setups, you will see that i'm totally right about what i'm saying.
5. 75% of EVE population is in empire and low sec. But no, not all of that are pvpers, that's true. But still, not everyone of those who are in 0.0 space are PVPers either. So there are a butt load more PVPers in empire and low sec than it is in 0.0 space anyways.
6. I have done that and my Neutron Mega with RR and MWD is still way more cap stable than the Abaddon no matter what you say.
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Liang Nuren
No Salvation
PuPPet MasTers
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Posted - 2009.04.09 21:04:00 -
[1712]
Originally by: NightmareX
4. See point 2. if you use some few hours to look around killboards from corps that are in empire and low sec, and when you look at their setups, you will see that i'm all true about what i'm saying.
How about you provide us the links since its your claim.
Quote:
5. 75% of EVE population is in empire and low sec. But no, not all of that are pvpers, that's true. But still, not everyone of those who are in 0.0 space are PVPers either. So there are a butt load more PVPers in empire and low sec than it is in 0.0 space anyways.
What, no. Lowsec is a ****ing deserted wasteland, and empire people don't pvp at all. There are faaaarrrr more kills in 0.0 than lowsec+empire - and if you require validation of this why don't you just look at the honking ships destroyed map. On TQ, of course.
Quote:
6. I have done that and my Neutron Mega with RR and MWD is still way more cap stable than the Abaddon no matter what you say.
No, Neutron mega with RR is more cap stable than the Abaddon. But if you run that MWD you are gonna be capless *real* fast, and not even cap boosters will save your sorry ass.
-Liang
--
Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
www.kwikdeath.org |
Childstar
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Posted - 2009.04.09 21:12:00 -
[1713]
Originally by: NightmareX
1. Yeah the Abaddon is limited to only gang combat before the ship works good. The Abaddon is not even near the Megathron by million miles when it's about doing very small scale PVP.
Im not interested in getting into a "best dodo catcher" argument its pointless.
Originally by: NightmareX
Take an example, like the corp Atomic Battle Penguins (ABP), how often do you see they use Rails on their Megas when they do RR gangs in empire and low sec?. Never.
They use more mega pulse 2 than the do neutron blasters 2, and sitting outside stations popping undockers is not that impressive tbh, and in that rather easy scenario blasters work fine.
Originally by: NightmareX
So there are a butt load more PVPers in empire and low sec than it is in 0.0 space anyways.
Maybe maybe not as 0.0 players either pvp or lose space, empire huggers do not need to pvp, and a LOT of low sec pvpers are gankers not gang v gang pvpers.
Originally by: NightmareX
I have done that and my Neutron Mega with RR and MWD is still way more cap stable than the Abaddon no matter what you say.
No you have not and it is not.......or link to KB with proof.
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Childstar
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Posted - 2009.04.09 21:13:00 -
[1714]
Edited by: Childstar on 09/04/2009 21:15:43
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: NightmareX
4. See point 2. if you use some few hours to look around killboards from corps that are in empire and low sec, and when you look at their setups, you will see that i'm all true about what i'm saying.
How about you provide us the links since its your claim.
ABP killboard...top weapon used MEGA PULSE 2.
Favorite amarr BS..............ABADDON.
http://www.killboard.atomicbattlepenguins.com/?a=corp_detail&crp_id=1234&view=ships_weapons
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
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Posted - 2009.04.09 21:14:00 -
[1715]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: NightmareX
4. See point 2. if you use some few hours to look around killboards from corps that are in empire and low sec, and when you look at their setups, you will see that i'm all true about what i'm saying.
How about you provide us the links since its your claim.
Quote:
5. 75% of EVE population is in empire and low sec. But no, not all of that are pvpers, that's true. But still, not everyone of those who are in 0.0 space are PVPers either. So there are a butt load more PVPers in empire and low sec than it is in 0.0 space anyways.
What, no. Lowsec is a ****ing deserted wasteland, and empire people don't pvp at all. There are faaaarrrr more kills in 0.0 than lowsec+empire - and if you require validation of this why don't you just look at the honking ships destroyed map. On TQ, of course.
Quote:
6. I have done that and my Neutron Mega with RR and MWD is still way more cap stable than the Abaddon no matter what you say.
No, Neutron mega with RR is more cap stable than the Abaddon. But if you run that MWD you are gonna be capless *real* fast, and not even cap boosters will save your sorry ass.
-Liang
1. You should look up those killboards your self. But i can name 2 of them right now while i remember it. The United and Atomic Battle Penguins. You don't find Large Rails in the list over most used weapons there.
2. Low sec is a good place to PVP in only if you use some little time to actually find the right place.
3. I don't run the MWD all the time, actually it's very few times i use the MWD in close range combat in a Blaster Mega.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Childstar
|
Posted - 2009.04.09 21:18:00 -
[1716]
Originally by: NightmareX
1. You should look up those killboards your self. But i can name 2 of them right now while i remember it. The United and Atomic Battle Penguins. You don't find Large Rails in the list over most used weapons there.
Maybe no rails but plenty of MP T2.
Originally by: NightmareX
2. Low sec is a good place to PVP in only if you use some little time to actually find the right place.
Low sec is a good place to gank unscouted noobs and fools on a gate and any ship can do that.
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.04.09 21:18:00 -
[1717]
Edited by: NightmareX on 09/04/2009 21:20:14
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: NightmareX
1. You should look up those killboards your self. But i can name 2 of them right now while i remember it. The United and Atomic Battle Penguins. You don't find Large Rails in the list over most used weapons there.
Maybe no rails but plenty of MP T2.
Originally by: NightmareX
2. Low sec is a good place to PVP in only if you use some little time to actually find the right place.
Low sec is a good place to gank unscouted noobs and fools on a gate and any ship can do that.
1. Look up on my reply before you replied this over.
2. Like your not doing that in 0.0 space to.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Childstar
|
Posted - 2009.04.09 21:26:00 -
[1718]
Edited by: Childstar on 09/04/2009 21:26:16
Originally by: NightmareX
Hey, you must be blind LOLOLOL.
Take a look again on the stats there. Neutron Blaster Cannon II - 713 kills + Ion Blaster Cannon II - 219 kills. And what is 713 + 219?, yes it's 932. Aka Blasters is most used.
Because Mega Pulse Laser II have 871 kills.
Does it feel good to be pwned again Child?.
I hope you have vasaline handy...
A loss from ABP.
http://www.killboard.atomicbattlepenguins.com/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=5986
They use mixed fits of NEUTRONS AND IONS ON THE SAME SHIPS......1 SHIP LOSS = 2 GUNS REGISTERED ON THE KB (1 ION 1 NEUTRON).....
I hope i was not to rough for you?...
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.04.09 21:30:00 -
[1719]
Edited by: NightmareX on 09/04/2009 21:34:32
Originally by: Childstar
Edited by: Childstar on 09/04/2009 21:26:16
Originally by: NightmareX
Hey, you must be blind LOLOLOL.
Take a look again on the stats there. Neutron Blaster Cannon II - 713 kills + Ion Blaster Cannon II - 219 kills. And what is 713 + 219?, yes it's 932. Aka Blasters is most used.
Because Mega Pulse Laser II have 871 kills.
Does it feel good to be pwned again Child?.
I hope you have vasaline handy...
A loss from ABP.
http://www.killboard.atomicbattlepenguins.com/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=5986
They use mixed fits of NEUTRONS AND IONS ON THE SAME SHIPS......1 SHIP LOSS = 2 GUNS REGISTERED ON THE KB (1 ION 1 NEUTRON).....
I hope i was not to rough for you?...
Do you know why they do it?. No you don't.
They do it so they can fit a Heavy Capacitor Booster instead of having to buy multiple faction modules just to be able to fit a pure t2 setup.
They are a Mercenary corporation, and they need to have minimal with losses. And by buying lots of faction modules all the time will not make their ISK income to be good enough.
Buying some faction mods some few times is ok though.
Oh you wasn't so smart anyways.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Childstar
|
Posted - 2009.04.09 21:34:00 -
[1720]
Originally by: NightmareX
Do you know why they do it?. No you don't.
They do it so they can fit a Heavy Capacitor Booster instead of having to buy multiple faction modules just to be able to fit a pure t2 setup.
They are a Mercenary corporation, and they need to have minimal with losses. And by buing lots of faction modules will not make their ISK income to be good enough.
Oh you wasn't so smart anyways.
I never made claims WHY they did it just that they do, so MP2 ARE the most used weapon cos the ions and neutrons are on the same ships...
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.04.09 21:38:00 -
[1721]
Edited by: NightmareX on 09/04/2009 21:41:20
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: NightmareX
Do you know why they do it?. No you don't.
They do it so they can fit a Heavy Capacitor Booster instead of having to buy multiple faction modules just to be able to fit a pure t2 setup.
They are a Mercenary corporation, and they need to have minimal with losses. And by buing lots of faction modules will not make their ISK income to be good enough.
Oh you wasn't so smart anyways.
I never made claims WHY they did it just that they do, so MP2 ARE the most used weapon cos the ions and neutrons are on the same ships...
Ahahahah, trying to be funny heh?.
Anyways. You know that Lasers is much easier to use when it's about killing ships in med range right?. It's not hard to press a button or 8 just to instapop some frigs with Lasers at 30-40 km. Easy mode is always for the lazy peoples.
Blasters can't do that, and that's why MPL II have more kills. But hold on still. What battleship is most used there again?.
Not even the Abaddon and the Armageddon combined isn't used more than the Mega there.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Childstar
|
Posted - 2009.04.09 21:45:00 -
[1722]
Originally by: NightmareX
Blasters can't do that, and that's why MPL II have more kills. But hold on still. What ships is most used again?.
Its true i mean the mega is used WAAAAAAAY more than any other BS.....
1660 megas used compared to only 885 abaddons.....
And yet mega pulse are the most used/successful weapon system...
And as YOU clearly pointed out there are no rails recorded.....
Just how bad do blasters suck that megas can be used so much more when fitted with them......and yet pulse are on top of weapons used....
Think before you post...how many times have i told you...
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.04.09 21:47:00 -
[1723]
Edited by: NightmareX on 09/04/2009 21:47:50
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: NightmareX
Blasters can't do that, and that's why MPL II have more kills. But hold on still. What ships is most used again?.
Its true i mean the mega is used WAAAAAAAY more than any other BS.....
1660 megas used compared to only 885 abaddons.....
And yet mega pulse are the most used/successful weapon system...
And as YOU clearly pointed out there are no rails recorded.....
Just how bad do blasters suck that megas can be used so much more when fitted with them......and yet pulse are on top of weapons used....
Think before you post...how many times have i told you...
It's not all about having most kills dude.
It's about using the best ship for the tuype of PVP your gonna do.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Farjung
Gallente
TAOSP
|
Posted - 2009.04.09 21:48:00 -
[1724]
Yes!
---
Wave of Mutilation 2 |
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.04.09 21:49:00 -
[1725]
Edited by: NightmareX on 09/04/2009 21:49:41
Originally by: Farjung
Yes!
OMG, please make more Blaster Mega movies.
And also, gives us info on what you think about the Blaster Mega today.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Childstar
|
Posted - 2009.04.09 21:55:00 -
[1726]
Originally by: NightmareX
Edited by: NightmareX on 09/04/2009 21:47:50
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: NightmareX
Blasters can't do that, and that's why MPL II have more kills. But hold on still. What ships is most used again?.
Its true i mean the mega is used WAAAAAAAY more than any other BS.....
1660 megas used compared to only 885 abaddons.....
And yet mega pulse are the most used/successful weapon system...
And as YOU clearly pointed out there are no rails recorded.....
Just how bad do blasters suck that megas can be used so much more when fitted with them......and yet pulse are on top of weapons used....
Think before you post...how many times have i told you...
It's not all about having most kills dude.
It's about using the best ship for the tuype of PVP your gonna do.
It was when you started mentioning ABP, but as per usual you lost the argument and are moving the goal posts yet again.
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Liang Nuren
No Salvation
PuPPet MasTers
|
Posted - 2009.04.09 21:56:00 -
[1727]
Originally by: Farjung
Yes!
Quite ambiguous. Do you mean in response to the OP? You should elaborate more.
-Liang
--
Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
www.kwikdeath.org |
Farjung
Gallente
TAOSP
|
Posted - 2009.04.09 21:58:00 -
[1728]
Originally by: Childstar
Edited by: Childstar on 09/04/2009 21:47:09
Originally by: NightmareX
Blasters can't do that, and that's why MPL II have more kills. But hold on still. What ships is most used again?.
Its true i mean the mega is used WAAAAAAAY more than any other BS on that KB.....
1660 megas used compared to only 885 abaddons.....
And yet mega pulse are the most used/successful weapon system...
And as YOU clearly pointed out there are no rails recorded.....
Just how bad do blasters suck that megas can be used so much more when fitted with them......and yet pulse are on top of weapons used....
Think before you post...how many times have i told you...
There are also 500 geddons recorded on that KB. And Neutron Blasters + Ion Blasters is a valid total, because the figure comes not from one loss producing one of each, but each kill mail which the megathron participated in only displaying one or the other.
1842 megathrons (including navy) - 713 Neutrons + 219 Ions = 932 blaster participations
1370 baddon + geddons - 871 MP II participations
Nothing particularly illuminating about all this.
This is all irrelevant because the point was that blasters are still being used on battleships in some situations. That they are limited to use mostly in empire gankings is tragic, but an inevitable result of the game's growth.
---
Wave of Mutilation 2 |
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.04.09 22:00:00 -
[1729]
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: NightmareX
Edited by: NightmareX on 09/04/2009 21:47:50
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: NightmareX
Blasters can't do that, and that's why MPL II have more kills. But hold on still. What ships is most used again?.
Its true i mean the mega is used WAAAAAAAY more than any other BS.....
1660 megas used compared to only 885 abaddons.....
And yet mega pulse are the most used/successful weapon system...
And as YOU clearly pointed out there are no rails recorded.....
Just how bad do blasters suck that megas can be used so much more when fitted with them......and yet pulse are on top of weapons used....
Think before you post...how many times have i told you...
It's not all about having most kills dude.
It's about using the best ship for the tuype of PVP your gonna do.
It was when you started mentioning ABP, but as per usual you lost the argument and are moving the goal posts yet again.
No when i was talking about ABP and the united, i was all the time talking about the ship that is most used, not what kind of weapon(s) that is used to kill most ships.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Childstar
|
Posted - 2009.04.09 22:06:00 -
[1730]
Edited by: Childstar on 09/04/2009 22:10:08
Originally by: Farjung
And Neutron Blasters + Ion Blasters is a valid total, because the figure comes not from one loss producing one of each, but each kill mail which the megathron participated in only displaying one or the other.
Perhaps but im not going to take your word for it tbh.
Originally by: Farjung
1842 megathrons (including navy) - 713 Neutrons + 219 Ions = 932 blaster participations
1370 baddon + geddons - 871 MP II participations
Nothing particularly illuminating about all this.
So if your right at best 500 more ship uses in the megas for only 61 more guns registered is not what id call a stella recomendation for a weapon system.
Originally by: Farjung
This is all irrelevant because the point was that blasters are still being used on battleships in some situations. That they are limited to use mostly in empire gankings is tragic, but an inevitable result of the game's growth.
1. Nobody has denied that they are still being used.
2. What is being denied is that because they are being used proves they are the "best gang weapon in eve" ect as NMX insists it does.
3. Systems/ships need to grow with the game and blasters/blaster ships need a major growth spurt as they have been left behind.
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.04.09 22:12:00 -
[1731]
Edited by: NightmareX on 09/04/2009 22:16:00
Originally by: Childstar
2. What is being denied is that because they are being used proves they are the "best gang weapon in eve" ect as NMX insists it does.
Uhm, your now digging up lies about what i have said AGAIN.
Did i say the Blasters was the most popular in RR gangs?, or did i say the Blaster Megathron (not only Blaster) was the most popular ship in RR gangs?.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Childstar
|
Posted - 2009.04.09 22:20:00 -
[1732]
Originally by: NightmareX
Originally by: Childstar
2. What is being denied is that because they are being used proves they are the "best gang weapon in eve" ect as NMX insists it does.
Uhm, your now digging up lies about what i have said.
Did i say the Blasters was the most popular in gang PVP?, or did i say the Blaster Megathron (not only Blaster) was the most popular ship in RR gangs?.
I was actually refering to the blaster megathron as that has been the main ship you have been ranting on about, but i suppose i should have been more specific as you do tend to be a bit emotrolly on obvious details if they are not clearly pointed out.
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Liang Nuren
No Salvation
PuPPet MasTers
|
Posted - 2009.04.09 22:21:00 -
[1733]
Originally by: NightmareX
Edited by: NightmareX on 09/04/2009 22:16:00
Originally by: Childstar
2. What is being denied is that because they are being used proves they are the "best gang weapon in eve" ect as NMX insists it does.
Uhm, your now digging up lies about what i have said AGAIN.
Did i say the Blasters was the most popular in RR gangs?, or did i say the Blaster Megathron (not only Blaster) was the most popular ship in RR gangs?.
Maybe what you two need to do is *concisely* post your entire viewpoint. This thread needs a regroup, and pulling stuff from 50 pages ago is a waste of time for everyone.
-Liang
--
Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
www.kwikdeath.org |
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.04.09 22:25:00 -
[1734]
Edited by: NightmareX on 09/04/2009 22:32:25
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: NightmareX
Originally by: Childstar
2. What is being denied is that because they are being used proves they are the "best gang weapon in eve" ect as NMX insists it does.
Uhm, your now digging up lies about what i have said.
Did i say the Blasters was the most popular in gang PVP?, or did i say the Blaster Megathron (not only Blaster) was the most popular ship in RR gangs?.
I was actually refering to the blaster megathron as that has been the main ship you have been ranting on about, but i suppose i should have been more specific as you do tend to be a bit emotrolly on obvious details if they are not clearly pointed out.
Yeah it's the main ship i have been talking about. Have i ever done the comparsion that the Blasters is used more than Lasers?, no i haven't, because that's not what this is all about.
The only time i did that was when you tried to tell me that Lasers was more used than Blasters, when they haven't.
I'll recommend you to start and read what i'm saying VERY carefully before you reply to me. You should already have done that like 40 pages ago.
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: NightmareX
Edited by: NightmareX on 09/04/2009 22:16:00
Originally by: Childstar
2. What is being denied is that because they are being used proves they are the "best gang weapon in eve" ect as NMX insists it does.
Uhm, your now digging up lies about what i have said AGAIN.
Did i say the Blasters was the most popular in RR gangs?, or did i say the Blaster Megathron (not only Blaster) was the most popular ship in RR gangs?.
Maybe what you two need to do is *concisely* post your entire viewpoint. This thread needs a regroup, and pulling stuff from 50 pages ago is a waste of time for everyone.
-Liang
My entire viewpoint is that an Abaddon is a ship that have to be used in a more big gang to work very good, while a Blaster Mega can do solo and very small scale PVP without ANY problems.
Because of the very poor tracking the Abaddon have compared to the Blaster Mega, then the Abaddon need MANY in the gang that can web the targets. Because without many webs on the targets the Abaddon is not going to hit anything.
So that's what i'm saying, and that's why i say the Blaster Mega is much much more popular than the Abaddon because of that.
And also because the Abaddon is a cap om nom nom nom'er at best, then i think many decide to use the more cap stable Blaster Mega over the Abaddon to.
And because when your fighting in empire and low sec, your not only going to shoot BS'es and Battlecruisers.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Childstar
|
Posted - 2009.04.09 22:32:00 -
[1735]
Originally by: NightmareX
Yeah it's the main ship i have been talking about. Have i ever done the comparsion that the Blasters is used more than Lasers?, no i haven't, because that's not what this is all about.
STFU, you went on about RR blaster megas being the most popular and used ship/system and so the best RR gang ship in eve for pages and pages.
There was no real point responding to the rest of the bulls**t in your post.
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.04.09 22:40:00 -
[1736]
Edited by: NightmareX on 09/04/2009 22:44:36
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: NightmareX
Yeah it's the main ship i have been talking about. Have i ever done the comparsion that the Blasters is used more than Lasers?, no i haven't, because that's not what this is all about.
STFU, you went on about RR blaster megas being the most popular and used ship/system and so the best RR gang ship in eve for pages and pages.
There was no real point responding to the rest of the bulls**t in your post.
And even more .
LOL, your just bitter because Farjung told you the exact truth on how things are today with the Blaster Mega in empire and low sec. Like i have been trying to get you to understand here for a veeeeeeery long time. But what happened, yes you ignored it.
No i have never said that the Blaster weapons is most used. I have ONLY told that the Blaster Megathron is the most used RR gang BS in empire and low sec.
I have only told you to STFU when you tried to cheat me to think that Lasers was the most used Weapons on the ABP killboard. There i told you that you was wrong, and Farjung told the same.
Want cheese with your whine?.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
PuPPet MasTers
|
Posted - 2009.04.09 22:52:00 -
[1737]
Originally by: NightmareX
My entire viewpoint is that an Abaddon is a ship that have to be used in a more big gang to work very good, while a Blaster Mega can do solo and very small scale PVP without ANY problems. Because of the very poor tracking the Abaddon have compared to the Blaster Mega, then the Abaddon need MANY in the gang that can web the targets. Because without many webs on the targets the Abaddon is not going to hit anything.
Um, the Abaddon has fantastic tracking and can track anything BC+ sized - and anything smaller than that's going to have a world of hurt if for no other reason than the drones. Notably, the Mega is similarly affected by this because the engagement range is so much smaller than that of the Abaddon. There are documented examples of Stabbers orbiting a neutron mega (no ab/speed mod) and never being hit save the 1% wrecking chance that the Abaddon has as well.
What I'm trying to say here is: yes, the Mega has better tracking than the Abaddon, but they both track BS sized targets with ease, and they both have trouble tracking smaller targets. It's not as much of a net win as you'd really hope for, and really we're about to see all close range combat transversal speeds drop again (see the upcoming agility/speed nerfs).
Quote:
So that's what i'm saying, and that's why i say the Blaster Mega is much much more popular than the Abaddon because of that.
I dunno, I doubt I'd solo in an Abaddon, but I might in a Mega. Not because the Mega is better (because I recognize that it's not), but because it's cheaper.
Quote:
And also because the Abaddon is a cap om nom nom nom'er at best, then i think many decide to use the more cap stable Blaster Mega over the Abaddon to.
Finally, something that I can fully agree with. The Abaddon would be WTFPWNBBQ broken if it didn't have cap issues. As it stands, with the ubiquity of cap boosters, it borders on it. Without something else eating cap (RR, Reps) it's ridiculously powerful.
Quote:
And because when your fighting in empire and low sec, your not only going to shoot BS'es and Battlecruisers.
This is why you don't fly BS's in empire wars without a really good reason - the ideal there is a CS, HAC, Recon but a BC will do in a pinch. The majority of my kills have been in Recons/BC's in lowsec (which is where I've spent the majority of my time in Eve).
Quote:
So in short. The Blaster Megas is limited by the range. While the Abaddon is limited to be only using in more bigger gangs to work very good. So it's all up to what you choose to use.
No, the Abaddon doesn't require a large gang to work well... arguably its better in small gangs and solo than the much cheaper (and more frequently used) Geddon because of the fourth mid.
-Liang
--
Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
www.kwikdeath.org |
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
PuPPet MasTers
|
Posted - 2009.04.09 22:53:00 -
[1738]
Originally by: NightmareX
LOL, your just bitter because Farjung told you the exact truth on how things are today with the Blaster Mega in empire and low sec. Like i have been trying to get you to understand here for a veeeeeeery long time. But what happened, yes you ignored it.
Um, Farjung said "yes, give up on blasters. The game has moved on and their only use is ganking empire bears on a station".
-Liang
--
Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
www.kwikdeath.org |
Ephemeron
North Eastern Swat
Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2009.04.09 22:54:00 -
[1739]
It would be interesting if CCP performed some datamining to see just how many ships of each type are currently present in 0.0 and low sec empire. And of those, how many are fitted with RR
It would also be interesting to compare those number with the ones before Great Speed Nerf patch - tho I'm not sure how easy it would be to obtain such statistic.
Certainly the devs have all the tools available and this type of information could be useful to assess the global game balance picture, at least from some perspective. But devs are probably too lazy to bother with all the extra work
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.04.09 22:56:00 -
[1740]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: NightmareX
LOL, your just bitter because Farjung told you the exact truth on how things are today with the Blaster Mega in empire and low sec. Like i have been trying to get you to understand here for a veeeeeeery long time. But what happened, yes you ignored it.
Um, Farjung said "yes, give up on blasters. The game has moved on and their only use is ganking empire bears on a station".
-Liang
Didn't you read what he said after that?.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
|
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Liang Nuren
No Salvation
PuPPet MasTers
|
Posted - 2009.04.09 22:58:00 -
[1741]
Originally by: Ephemeron
It would be interesting if CCP performed some datamining to see just how many ships of each type are currently present in 0.0 and low sec empire. And of those, how many are fitted with RR
It would also be interesting to compare those number with the ones before Great Speed Nerf patch - tho I'm not sure how easy it would be to obtain such statistic.
Certainly the devs have all the tools available and this type of information could be useful to assess the global game balance picture, at least from some perspective. But devs are probably too lazy to bother with all the extra work
They've done this before and made a dev blog about it. That dev blog is where we got the statistics like 70% of Eve is carebear living in empire, 10% live in lowsec, and 20% live in 0.0. Minmatar trained pilots are the most gunnery specialized characters (significantly more than Amarr, oddly), and nobody (at the time) trained or flew Amarr.
I'd be really curious to see how that would look these days myself.
-Liang
--
Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
www.kwikdeath.org |
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.04.09 23:01:00 -
[1742]
Yes, it's true from that dev blog that the Minmatar trained pilots are the most gunnery specialized characters.
I have 18.3 mill SP in Gunnery alone now. And that's mostly for Autocannons and Blasters.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
PuPPet MasTers
|
Posted - 2009.04.09 23:05:00 -
[1743]
Originally by: NightmareX
So your telling me that ABP for example is only ganking bears in high sec?, no they don't. They are sometimes in 0.0 space to, and quite some times in low sec to.
TBQFH, I've never even heard of ABP. For all I know they're in 0.0 killing Goonswarm in job lots. What I'm telling you is that you blatantly misquoted Farjung, almost to the point of it being an outright lie. FARJUNG said to give up on blasters, and that the game has moved on.
-Liang
--
Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
www.kwikdeath.org |
Childstar
|
Posted - 2009.04.09 23:08:00 -
[1744]
Originally by: NightmareX
My entire viewpoint is that an Abaddon is a ship that have to be used in a more big gang to work very good, while a Blaster Mega can do solo and very small scale PVP without ANY problems.
Because of the very poor tracking the Abaddon have compared to the Blaster Mega, then the Abaddon need MANY in the gang that can web the targets. Because without many webs on the targets the Abaddon is not going to hit anything.
So that's what i'm saying, and that's why i say the Blaster Mega is much much more popular than the Abaddon because of that.
And also because the Abaddon is a cap om nom nom nom'er at best, then i think many decide to use the more cap stable Blaster Mega over the Abaddon to.
And because when your fighting in empire and low sec, your not only going to shoot BS'es and Battlecruisers.
So in short. The Blaster Megas is limited by the range. While the Abaddon is limited to be only using in more bigger gangs to work very good.
So it's all up to what you choose to use.
This has been your view point for the last page or so because every other stupid idea you have had has been blown out of the water.
1. The blaster mega is ineffective at solo work due to, lock time, the web nerf and the available and catchable/killable targets BS have been reduced to having. While many smaller ships can now kite and kill or kite and tackle until back up arrives a blaster mega or most other BS for that matter easily.
2. The blaster mega has no advantage in small gang combat although its fitting issues gimping its tank and the need to mwd to do its full dmg also gimps its cap and or dmg.
3. In larger gang combat its lack of a good tank and cap issues become even greater of a issue as it will be recieving even more dmg from larger gangs as well as needing to mwd around more to get into its optimal against each hostile ship as they are called primary or do reduced damage.
4. The mega/blasters lack good damage at 10-20km that would improve its ability in gang combat.
So to recap the mega/blasters lacks:
1. The ability to solo as well as a available solo target selection.
2. Fitting/tank.
3. Cap due to needing to mwd to do good dmg.
4. Good DMG within its longer (10-20km) available ranges.
Im only using the abaddon for referance and a yard stick but:
1. It is also poor at solo work but then most BS are now.
2. Its fine at small gang because of its available range as long as it has a tackler/webber along (but the mega needs those as well).
3. It has great fitting options and tank.
4. Its cap is fine if a booster is fitted and better in gang combat than the blaster megas cos with 45km of range it will not need to mwd.
4. Great range and DMG.
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.04.09 23:10:00 -
[1745]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: NightmareX
So your telling me that ABP for example is only ganking bears in high sec?, no they don't. They are sometimes in 0.0 space to, and quite some times in low sec to.
TBQFH, I've never even heard of ABP. For all I know they're in 0.0 killing Goonswarm in job lots. What I'm telling you is that you blatantly misquoted Farjung, almost to the point of it being an outright lie. FARJUNG said to give up on blasters, and that the game has moved on.
-Liang
Yes he said yes to that, but he did say that the Blaster Megas today is mostly used because of how EVE is.
And that's why i have always been telling that i'll use a Blaster Mega over an Abaddon any days when it's about fighting in empire and low sec. And when it's about doing more small scale PVP / Solo works.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Childstar
|
Posted - 2009.04.09 23:11:00 -
[1746]
Edited by: Childstar on 09/04/2009 23:14:10
Originally by: NightmareX
LOL, your just bitter because Farjung told you the exact truth on how things are today with the Blaster Mega in empire and low sec.
He said eve had left them behind and that they were LIMITED to being of only any use for ganking in empire and it was TRAGIC...
Originally by: Farjung
That they are limited to use mostly in empire gankings is tragic, but an inevitable result of the game's growth.
Why are you so full of crap?.
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Liang Nuren
No Salvation
PuPPet MasTers
|
Posted - 2009.04.09 23:23:00 -
[1747]
Originally by: NightmareX
Yes he said yes to that, but he did say that the Blaster Megas today is mostly used because of how EVE is.
Wait, what? Your grammar there is terrible. Your grammar is, in fact, so terrible that it's impossible to unambiguously parse what you just said. Maybe that's part of why people disagree with you so often. Let's be clear:
Originally by: Farjung
This is all irrelevant because the point was that blasters are still being used on battleships in some situations. That they are limited to use mostly in empire gankings is tragic, but an inevitable result of the game's growth.
This is Farjung (the guy that makes Blaster BS videos that you keep raving about, that you trust knows what's going on with the game) telling you that BLASTERS ARE MOSTLY USED IN EMPIRE GANKING AND SITUATIONALLY ELSEWHERE. I think that doesn't support your claims in this thread. Sorry mate, this is him directly disagreeing with you.
Quote:
And that's why i have always been telling that i'll use a Blaster Mega over an Abaddon any days when it's about fighting in empire and low sec. And when it's about doing more small scale PVP / Solo works.
I'd take an Abaddon in lowsec, but I'd probably use a Mega in empire. Lots more station ganking in empire so range isn't as big of a deal.
-Liang
--
Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
www.kwikdeath.org |
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.04.09 23:30:00 -
[1748]
Edited by: NightmareX on 09/04/2009 23:32:31
Originally by: Childstar
EPIC wall of text with a really big whining that doesn't have so much to say here.
1. The Blaster Mega still works much better in solo PVP than the Abaddon does anyways. Any smart Blaster Mega pilots can kite ships like cruisers, BC's to if they are smart.
2. Blaster Mega have a good enough advantage in small scale PVP, the nice DPS advantage and the fact that Kinetic and Thermal damage is both very good damage to take in armor and shield.
3. It's not a problem for me. I have never had cap problems EVER in the Blaster Mega. But the Abaddon i tried yesterday on sisi on the other hand. I don't even want to talk about it.
4. The Mega is not lacking damage if your fighting in the web range. What's the problem here when me and many others are fighting in the web range?. The Blaster mega is the king there.
For me the Mega is the best ship because of those reasons:
1. It have really nice DPS. And are doing great damages in both armor and shield. Lasers are BAAAAAAAAD at doing damages on armor omni tanks.
2. It's not a cap om nom nom nom'er like the Abaddon is, so for me the Blaster Mega is more a safer ship to use, because i don't have to worry about the capacitor. But on the Abaddon i was using yesterday, i was crying over the 10 cap boosters i had to use very fast yesterday because i was shooting all the time and was MWDing sometimes to. Cap was gone in no times.
3. The Blaster Mega is the best solo / very small scale PVP battleship because of the tracking, so it hits targets smaller than BS'es much much easier than Abaddon do at close range.
4. And i use the normal Blaster Megathron over the Abaddon because the Mega is like 50 mill isk cheaper than the Abaddon.
5. I use Blaster Mega because you have to WORK for your kills rather than pressing some buttons to get some easy kills.
6. I use a Blaster Mega because it feels much much better to have worked for your kills rather than sitting at gate and pressing F1-F8. You not a good pvper by pressing some few buttons to get some easy kills.
7. I use a Mega because it's looking really nice. Abaddon looks good to, but it's not near to look as good as the Mega.
8. I use the Blaster Mega because that's the ultimate pwn in your face ship in close range.
9. I also use the Blaster Mega because so many others are using it, so it must be good at something then.
10. Blaster Navy Mega is a good reason to use over the Abaddon.
Ok, now this is the reason why i would use an Abaddon.
1. The range Lasers have, so they are more better to use in 0.0 space as things are there today.
2. The Abaddon doesn't lose so much DPS by losing it's drones, the Mega lose a bit more DPS by losing it's drones that way.
3. Because Abaddon is the best looking Amarr BS.
That's all of the good things i can find with the Abaddon.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Childstar
|
Posted - 2009.04.09 23:33:00 -
[1749]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
I'd take an Abaddon in lowsec, but I'd probably use a Mega in empire. Lots more station ganking in empire so range isn't as big of a deal.
-Liang
The thing is its not that the blaster mega is particularly better or the best at station ganking although it does ok, its that station ganking is one of the only things the mega can do reasonably well without losing dmg due to range or cap due to needing to MWD.
But even so if i was waiting for a good sized gang to undock sitting at 15km or even further away in a well tanked abaddon and having al lot of the incoming dmg reduced due to that range while still doing good dmg myself is summat id prefer tbh.
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Childstar
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Posted - 2009.04.09 23:44:00 -
[1750]
Edited by: Childstar on 09/04/2009 23:45:33
Originally by: NightmareX
1. The Blaster Mega still works much better in solo PVP than the Abaddon does anyways. Any smart Blaster Mega pilots can kite ships like cruisers, BC's to if they are smart.
Blaster megas can kite dmg from cruisers and BC?...
Originally by: NightmareX
2. Blaster Mega have a good enough advantage in small scale PVP, the nice DPS advantage and the fact that Kinetic and Thermal damage is both very good damage to take in armor and shield.
Only if they are in range.....
Originally by: NightmareX
3. It's not a problem for me. I have never had cap problems EVER in the Blaster Mega. But the Abaddon i tried yesterday on sisi on the other hand. I don't even want to talk about it.
You have never flown the mega on TQ.
Originally by: NightmareX
4. The Mega is not lacking damage if your fighting in the web range. What's the problem here when me and many others are fighting in the web range?. The Blaster mega is the king there.
Its getting into web range that is the issue.
Originally by: NightmareX
1. It have really nice DPS. And are doing great damages in both armor and shield. Lasers are BAAAAAAAAD at doing damages on armor omni tanks.
And yet the mega does not have the fitting ability to use the omni tank.
Originally by: NightmareX
2. It's not a cap om nom nom nom'er like the Abaddon is, so for me the Blaster Mega is more a safer ship to use, because i don't have to worry about the capacitor. But on the Abaddon i was using yesterday, i was crying over the 10 cap boosters i had to use very fast yesterday because i was shooting all the time and was MWDing sometimes to. Cap was gone in no times.
You have never used the mega on TQ or you would understand about the cap.
Originally by: NightmareX
3. The Blaster Mega is the best solo / very small scale PVP battleship because of the tracking, so it hits targets smaller than BS'es much much easier than Abaddon do at close range.
Both BS suck at solo, and the abaddon is better at small gang cos it has the range to hit anything that is tackled.
Originally by: NightmareX
4. And i use the normal Blaster Megathron over the Abaddon because the Mega is like 50 mill isk cheaper than the Abaddon.
A change from "WWWAAA I DONT CARE ABOUT ISK I WANT A NAVY MEGA"......and you do not use the mega....
Originally by: NightmareX
5. I use Blaster Mega because you have to WORK for your kills rather than pressing some buttons to get some easy kills.
Actually you do NOT use the mega at all...
Originally by: NightmareX
6. I use a Blaster Mega because it feels much much better to have worked for your kills rather than sitting at gate and pressing F1-F8. You not a good pvper by pressing some few buttons to get some easy kills.
This is the same as 5...and you stll do not use the mega...
Originally by: NightmareX
7. I use a Mega because it's looking really nice. Abaddon looks good to, but it's not near to look as good as the Mega.
You a tool...and you STILL do NOT use the mega....
Originally by: NightmareX
8. I use the Blaster Mega because that's the ultimate pwn in your face ship in close range.
No its not the hyperion is...AND YOU STILL DO NOT USE THE MEGA...
... |
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.04.09 23:48:00 -
[1751]
Anyways, the reasons i posted over is the final reasons on why i use a Blaster Mega way way before i jump into a Pulse Abaddon.
And no, i'm not listening to you Child, i'm more listening to those who are using Blaster Megas everyday in low sec and empire today on what's the best solo / small cale PVP / RR gank BS in EVE now.
So, you have one thing you can do to get me to use an Abaddon, is to convince me that all of those 4389568946798 players who are using a Blasters Megas today are doing everything wrong in PVP.
If not, then you can just use your crappy Abaddon alone with the very few that are using it in RR gangs today.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Childstar
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Posted - 2009.04.09 23:48:00 -
[1752]
Why do you keep lying about using the mega when you NEVER DO....,or link here to a KB with PROOF....
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.04.09 23:52:00 -
[1753]
Originally by: Childstar
Edited by: Childstar on 09/04/2009 23:45:33
Originally by: NightmareX
1. The Blaster Mega still works much better in solo PVP than the Abaddon does anyways. Any smart Blaster Mega pilots can kite ships like cruisers, BC's to if they are smart.
Blaster megas can kite dmg from cruisers and BC?...
Originally by: NightmareX
2. Blaster Mega have a good enough advantage in small scale PVP, the nice DPS advantage and the fact that Kinetic and Thermal damage is both very good damage to take in armor and shield.
Only if they are in range.....
Originally by: NightmareX
3. It's not a problem for me. I have never had cap problems EVER in the Blaster Mega. But the Abaddon i tried yesterday on sisi on the other hand. I don't even want to talk about it.
You have never flown the mega on TQ.
Originally by: NightmareX
4. The Mega is not lacking damage if your fighting in the web range. What's the problem here when me and many others are fighting in the web range?. The Blaster mega is the king there.
Its getting into web range that is the issue.
Originally by: NightmareX
1. It have really nice DPS. And are doing great damages in both armor and shield. Lasers are BAAAAAAAAD at doing damages on armor omni tanks.
And yet the mega does not have the fitting ability to use the omni tank.
Originally by: NightmareX
2. It's not a cap om nom nom nom'er like the Abaddon is, so for me the Blaster Mega is more a safer ship to use, because i don't have to worry about the capacitor. But on the Abaddon i was using yesterday, i was crying over the 10 cap boosters i had to use very fast yesterday because i was shooting all the time and was MWDing sometimes to. Cap was gone in no times.
You have never used the mega on TQ or you would understand about the cap.
Originally by: NightmareX
3. The Blaster Mega is the best solo / very small scale PVP battleship because of the tracking, so it hits targets smaller than BS'es much much easier than Abaddon do at close range.
Both BS suck at solo, and the abaddon is better at small gang cos it has the range to hit anything that is tackled.
Originally by: NightmareX
4. And i use the normal Blaster Megathron over the Abaddon because the Mega is like 50 mill isk cheaper than the Abaddon.
A change from "WWWAAA I DONT CARE ABOUT ISK I WANT A NAVY MEGA"......and you do not use the mega....
Originally by: NightmareX
5. I use Blaster Mega because you have to WORK for your kills rather than pressing some buttons to get some easy kills.
Actually you do NOT use the mega at all...
Originally by: NightmareX
6. I use a Blaster Mega because it feels much much better to have worked for your kills rather than sitting at gate and pressing F1-F8. You not a good pvper by pressing some few buttons to get some easy kills.
This is the same as 5...and you stll do not use the mega...
Originally by: NightmareX
7. I use a Mega because it's looking really nice. Abaddon looks good to, but it's not near to look as good as the Mega.
You a tool...and you STILL do NOT use the mega....
Originally by: NightmareX
8. I use the Blaster Mega because that's the ultimate pwn in your face ship in close range.
No its not the hyperion is...AND YOU STILL DO NOT USE THE MEGA...
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Childstar
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Posted - 2009.04.09 23:53:00 -
[1754]
Originally by: NightmareX
And no, i'm not listening to you Child, i'm more listening to those who are using Blaster Megas everyday in low sec and empire today on what's the best solo / small cale PVP / RR gank BS in EVE now.
They are not saying anything in this thread..., the only ppl in here are those who think your clueless and that the mega is only good for ganking noob empire bears...
Originally by: Farjung
That they are limited to use mostly in empire gankings is tragic.
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.04.09 23:54:00 -
[1755]
Originally by: Childstar
Why do you keep lying about using the mega when you NEVER DO....,or link here to a KB with PROOF....
Do i need to use the Mega to understand how the PVP in EVE today is?.
No i don't.
But you have to.
That means i'm smarter than you.
And also, you don't want to know how smart i will get in PVP when i finally are going to use the Blaster Mega and the Navy Mega in PVP on TQ.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
PuPPet MasTers
|
Posted - 2009.04.09 23:56:00 -
[1756]
Originally by: NightmareX
Do i need to use the Mega to understand how the PVP in EVE today is?.
No i don't.
But you have to.
That means i'm smarter than you.
And also, you don't want to know how smart i will get in PVP when i finally are going to use the Blaster Mega and the Navy Mega in PVP on TQ.
This statement boggles my mind. It's almost sig worthy.
-Liang
--
Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
www.kwikdeath.org |
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.04.09 23:58:00 -
[1757]
Edited by: NightmareX on 10/04/2009 00:03:34
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: NightmareX
Do i need to use the Mega to understand how the PVP in EVE today is?.
No i don't.
But you have to.
That means i'm smarter than you.
And also, you don't want to know how smart i will get in PVP when i finally are going to use the Blaster Mega and the Navy Mega in PVP on TQ.
This statement boggles my mind. It's almost sig worthy.
-Liang
Well, when the other 48904684906 players that use a Blaster Mega over any other ships today when it's about RR BS gangs, then i think i don't need to PVP my self to just find out what BS that is the most popular ship.
By so many that use a Blaster Mega today in RR gangs, then you still need a fuk ton of more players here that tells me why Abaddon is better in RR gangs before i'm going to change my mind on why the Abaddon is better.
Before that happens. The killboard of many many corps in empire and low sec and when ALOT of players are telling me why they choose to use a Blaster Mega over an Abaddon is much much more valid than some few players in this topic that are telling me that Abaddon is the best ONLY because it have a little higher stats lol.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Childstar
|
Posted - 2009.04.10 00:01:00 -
[1758]
Originally by: NightmareX
1. I can, but can you?.
Proof or stfu.
Originally by: NightmareX
2. Yeah they have always been in the range for me.
TQ is not like sissi, if you ask for a 1 v 1 BS fight on TQ a player does not warp to 0 in a BF area....
Originally by: NightmareX
3. And you point is?. I still have flown the Mega way more on sisi.
You just made it with your comment on sissi....
Originally by: NightmareX
4. Getting into web range have never been an issue for me.
That is cos you fly on sissi.
Originally by: NightmareX
5. Yes it have if you use one Ion Blaster and 6 Neutrons. Problem solved.
Learned another mega fit have you?..this thread has really educated you hasnt it..all you knew before here was how to pimp a navy mega and marauder on TQ...
Originally by: NightmareX
6. So the capacitor usage on my mega is different on sisi than it is on TQ?.
NO BUT YOU CANNOT PRE ORDER A BS TO FIGHT AND ARRANGE A RANGE TO START THE FIGHT AT ON TQ......
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Childstar
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Posted - 2009.04.10 00:03:00 -
[1759]
Edited by: Childstar on 10/04/2009 00:05:19
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: NightmareX
Do i need to use the Mega to understand how the PVP in EVE today is?.
No i don't.
But you have to.
That means i'm smarter than you.
And also, you don't want to know how smart i will get in PVP when i finally are going to use the Blaster Mega and the Navy Mega in PVP on TQ.
This statement boggles my mind. It's almost sig worthy.
-Liang
Disapointment tends to make him go major emo and start ranting...i think the video bloke pointing out that all blaster BS were good for is ganking empire bears hit for a major blow as he had hopes of a bit of back up....
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.04.10 00:10:00 -
[1760]
Edited by: NightmareX on 10/04/2009 00:11:13
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: NightmareX
1. I can, but can you?.
Proof or stfu.
Originally by: NightmareX
2. Yeah they have always been in the range for me.
TQ is not like sissi, if you ask for a 1 v 1 BS fight on TQ a player does not warp to 0 in a BF area....
Originally by: NightmareX
3. And you point is?. I still have flown the Mega way more on sisi.
You just made it with your comment on sissi....
Originally by: NightmareX
4. Getting into web range have never been an issue for me.
That is cos you fly on sissi.
Originally by: NightmareX
5. Yes it have if you use one Ion Blaster and 6 Neutrons. Problem solved.
Learned another mega fit have you?..this thread has really educated you hasnt it..all you knew before here was how to pimp a navy mega and marauder on TQ...
Originally by: NightmareX
6. So the capacitor usage on my mega is different on sisi than it is on TQ?.
NO BUT YOU CANNOT PRE ORDER A BS TO FIGHT AND ARRANGE A RANGE TO START THE FIGHT AT ON TQ......
1. I asked you first. Proof or STFU your self.
2. Sisi is like TQ in MANY ways. Your not much on sisi so you cannot say how Sisi is.
3. Yeah and?, i still know how to fly the ship no matter where i have flown it. I know every thing you have to do with the ships in the different tasks you can use the Blaster Mega in. Because i have tried it in every possible ways you can use it in PVP.
4. Yeah and?, it's still valid as long many of the things i do on sisi is like i do on TQ.
5. I have known that setup for years, but it's a setup i would not use over the tripple Coreli ANP setup though.
6. Look, have you ever hear about FFA 1 on sisi?. Ships there are spread all around in there, they are not sitting all at 0 km on the FFA 1 beacon noob lol.
And i have most of the times used my MWD quite alot in there to catch someone there, but still, i have never had problems to MWD a bit and lose some cap because of that to get to the targets. Because once they are in my optimal range, they are dead.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
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Childstar
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Posted - 2009.04.10 00:13:00 -
[1761]
Originally by: NightmareX
1. I asked you first. Proof or STFU your self.
Can i while flying in a plated mega kite the DMG of a cruiser?...er NO....unless im at 200km away and he is using blasters....
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.04.10 00:27:00 -
[1762]
Edited by: NightmareX on 10/04/2009 00:29:19
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: NightmareX
Edited by: NightmareX on 10/04/2009 00:21:27
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: NightmareX
1. I asked you first. Proof or STFU your self.
Can i while flying in a plated mega kite the DMG of a cruiser?...er NO....unless im at 200km away and he is using blasters....
If your not dumb, you know that in solo PVP or in very small scale PVP, you don't use Neutrons and one RR.
You are most likely to use Ions and one Heavy Neut in high slot if your doing solo or 2-3 man gang, and that's why you can kite cruisers. Because they will be out of cap while i can MWD away pretty fast. The cruiser can't MWD though, because my Heavy Neut killed his cap.
Anyways, when i'm doing ops where i have to kill more smaller ship, i'll take my close range Tempest out before the Blaster Mega though.
You need to learn what kiting dmg means.
And yes the pest is a better solo BS than the mega, but then so is the domi although after the web nerf catching and holding smaller ships long enough to kill them is impossable if they choose to burn and run.
Kiting damage and kiting ships into my trap is 2 different things smartypants.
Kiting damage is one thing, but kiting ships into you and lure them into a trap is something else.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Childstar
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Posted - 2009.04.10 00:31:00 -
[1763]
Edited by: Childstar on 10/04/2009 00:31:49
Originally by: NightmareX
Kiting damage and kiting ships is 2 different things smartypants.
Kiting damage is one thing, but kiting ships into you and lure them into a trap is something else.
And talking complete crap and making up nonexistant phrases is a third thing and summat you do because you are a pathetic little boy who cannot deal with losing.......
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.04.10 00:33:00 -
[1764]
Edited by: NightmareX on 10/04/2009 00:34:37
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: NightmareX
Kiting damage and kiting ships is 2 different things smartypants.
Kiting damage is one thing, but kiting ships into you and lure them into a trap is something else.
And talking complete crap and making up nonexistant phrases is a third thing and summat you do.......
And your reason i was not right about that is?.
I told the difference with those 2 things, and then you comes with a rabble that was just to twist you away from the fact that i told the truth.
Care to give me a reason why i'm wrong?.
All i can do now with all of your epic rabble rabble rabble here is this:
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Childstar
|
Posted - 2009.04.10 00:40:00 -
[1765]
Originally by: NightmareX
I told the difference with those 2 things, and then you comes with a rabble that was just to twist you away from the fact that i told the truth.
Care to give me a reason why i'm wrong?.
1. "kiting dmg", exists as regularly a used term in eve.
2. "kiting ships into you and lure them into a trap is something else", was made up by you a few minutes ago because you are a pathetic lying and stupid troll who cannot deal with being wrong.
Why dont you just sod off and take your bullsh*t, troll and pathetic argumentative and juvinille posting elsewhere.
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.04.10 00:42:00 -
[1766]
Edited by: NightmareX on 10/04/2009 00:45:50
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: NightmareX
I told the difference with those 2 things, and then you comes with a rabble that was just to twist you away from the fact that i told the truth.
Care to give me a reason why i'm wrong?.
1. "kiting dmg", exists as regularly a used term in eve.
2. "kiting ships into you and lure them into a trap is something else", was made up by you a few minutes ago because you are a pathetic lying and stupid troll who cannot deal with being wrong.
Why dont you just sod off and take your bullsh*t, troll and pathetic argumentative and juvinille posting elsewhere.
What?, i just told you how it was because you was talking about it right now. We haven't been talking about kiting earlier though, right?.
So only because i just talked about that now because you started to talk about kiting, then i don't have to have talked about that earlier ONLY because you say it.
Why don't you just go and lose a fail Abaddon over you epic noob rabble rabble rabble instead of digging up things that is not true and when you can only lie about things i have never told?.
Oh the rabble rabble rabble and the whining is getting stronger and stronger now, i have a feeling that Child is feeling beaten now.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Childstar
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Posted - 2009.04.10 00:47:00 -
[1767]
Originally by: NightmareX
back to trolling
The last few pages have seen you well and truly bent over so i suppose its only natural that you would resort to your standard trolly ways.
I think im gonna head to bed and leave you to make a few comments about god knows what and look like a total fool as usual...
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
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Posted - 2009.04.10 00:50:00 -
[1768]
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: NightmareX
back to trolling
The last few pages have seen you well and truly bent over so i suppose its only natural that you would resort to your standard trolly ways.
I think im gonna head to bed and leave you to make a few comments about god knows what and look like a total fool as usual...
I shouldn't really post imgages right in here like that, but i'm doing it just for you Childstar.
Hmm, doesn't your name says that your being a star at being a child? LOLOLOLOOL.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Ephemeron
North Eastern Swat
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.04.10 00:52:00 -
[1769]
how long would this thread be if all the NightmareX and Childstar posts were deleted? 
I know there are some people with whom it's pointless to argue. But it's tough to let them have the last word
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
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Posted - 2009.04.10 00:57:00 -
[1770]
Originally by: Ephemeron
how long would this thread be if all the NightmareX and Childstar posts were deleted?
I know there are some people with whom it's pointless to argue. But it's tough to let them have the last word
I have said my last words on why i choose to use a Blaster Mega ANY days before an Abaddon.
And because of my play style, there is nothing that can make me to use the Abaddon no matter what.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
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Farjung
Gallente
TAOSP
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Posted - 2009.04.10 01:00:00 -
[1771]
Please don't go overboard analysing what I said. It was just an off-the-cuff remark when I checked back on these forums as I do every few months and saw a 50+ page thread on blasters. The following two statements may well be true. I wouldn't know, I haven't played seriously in a long time, and am no longer as familiar with the combat mechanics as I was.
a) Blasterthrons are one of the most effective solo PvP battleships
b) It's not really possible to solo PvP in battleships in 0.0 any more
I couldn't really say if a) is true. Last time I played, in a 1 v 1 battleship situation where both sides were PvP setup and expending slots on tackling and mobility, blasterthrons performed fairly well, but that was a long time ago. But even then, such situations were hard to come by on TQ.
When I last played, if you went out into 0.0 without a scout in a combat-fit battleship, you were going to lose it. Looking back at Axel's videos from many years ago, and then looking at mine, and then recalling how the game was a year later around the time I stopped playing, the potential to go out in a battleship hull by oneself and score kills without getting pinned down and ganked steadily diminished as a function of increased server population. It's logical to assume that nowadays it would just be an exercise in futility. If you limit yourself to only a sub-set of the population, via empire war, this problem disappears, but just going for a solo roam (truly solo, no alt scout) through 4 0.0 regions on an evening and scoring a bunch of kills is a thing of the past, and has been for a few years.
And this is as intended and encouraged by CCP - the battleship as a solopwnmobile was intentionally castrated over the years, in addition to the effects of higher population density.
Once you start talking about gangs, the dynamics become a whole lot more complex. The size of the gang, the nature of the support. The bigger the gang, the more obvious the handicap of having to be within 15km of the target before doing appreciable damage is. Trying to generalise is futile - and it'll be more down to the quality of the warp-in and your EWar options vs theirs in a truly small gang scenario, and as the numbers scale it'll degenerate into how much damage each side can do how quickly, without being neutralised by falcons. The smaller the gang, the less handicapped the megathron is - the longer each target will last, and so the smaller the percentage of combat time spent getting into range is. If you assume that most of your combat will be within 15km of your warpin, blasterthron remains strong. Just as all you need to do is look at the optimal on mega pulse IIs to work out that laser boats will offer much more flexibility and scale better as gang size increases.
Anyway, feel free to disregard. I've no new insight to bring and my in-game experience is two years old at least, but this argument isn't new either; it's been rehashed in some form or other many times on this forum. Seeing some of you getting quite so excited and hostile to each other, breaking down each other's posts in such exhaustive detail is great though.
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Wave of Mutilation 2 |
The Djego
Minmatar
Hellequin Inc.
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Posted - 2009.04.10 01:07:00 -
[1772]
Originally by: Farjung
Yes!
Now this is something I didn¦t expect.
Originally by: Ephemeron
how long would this thread be if all the NightmareX and Childstar posts were deleted?
I know there are some people with whom it's pointless to argue. But it's tough to let them have the last word
Something around 10-12 pages I gess.
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Nerf Tank - Boost Gank!
Originally by: Amantus
Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
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lecrotta
Minmatar
lecrotta Corp
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Posted - 2009.04.10 01:23:00 -
[1773]
Originally by: Farjung
Please don't go overboard analysing what I said. It was just an off-the-cuff remark when I checked back on these forums as I do every few months and saw a 50+ page thread on blasters. The following two statements may well be true. I wouldn't know, I haven't played seriously in a long time, and am no longer as familiar with the combat mechanics as I was.
a) Blasterthrons are one of the most effective solo PvP battleships
b) It's not really possible to solo PvP in battleships in 0.0 any more
I couldn't really say if a) is true. Last time I played, in a 1 v 1 battleship situation where both sides were PvP setup and expending slots on tackling and mobility, blasterthrons performed fairly well, but that was a long time ago. But even then, such situations were hard to come by on TQ.
When I last played, if you went out into 0.0 without a scout in a combat-fit battleship, you were going to lose it. Looking back at Axel's videos from many years ago, and then looking at mine, and then recalling how the game was a year later around the time I stopped playing, the potential to go out in a battleship hull by oneself and score kills without getting pinned down and ganked steadily diminished as a function of increased server population. It's logical to assume that nowadays it would just be an exercise in futility. If you limit yourself to only a sub-set of the population, via empire war, this problem disappears, but just going for a solo roam (truly solo, no alt scout) through 4 0.0 regions on an evening and scoring a bunch of kills is a thing of the past, and has been for a few years.
This TBH.
Although add on top of that a web nerf that means they now only give 60%.
Though reasonably accurate as far as ability goes for the hyperion/mega, a ship like the abaddon does large ammounts of damage as well so it cannot be considered a poor substitute and probably will be prefered to the hyperion or mega because of its range versatility.
Your comments on small BS gang pvp were accurate from a technical stand point but things have progressed a little furthar than you realise with your first paragraph about solo work as they now apply to small gangs with or without BS in.
And most importantly the rules and reasons you point out in your first paragraph about solo pvp also apply to small gang combat in battleships as the density and increased player base does not allow for much small BS gang combat now either.
The only place you can really get small gang BS fighting is in empire as the war dec system protects you from getting blobbed.
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Liang Nuren
No Salvation
PuPPet MasTers
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Posted - 2009.04.10 01:53:00 -
[1774]
Originally by: Farjung
Anyway, feel free to disregard. I've no new insight to bring and my in-game experience is two years old at least, but this argument isn't new either; it's been rehashed in some form or other many times on this forum. Seeing some of you getting quite so excited and hostile to each other, breaking down each other's posts in such exhaustive detail is great though.
You should play more often. The game's a lot of fun if you don't fly BS's.
-Liang
--
Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
www.kwikdeath.org |
Quixess
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Posted - 2009.04.10 02:22:00 -
[1775]
Originally by: NightmareX
Originally by: Ephemeron
how long would this thread be if all the NightmareX and Childstar posts were deleted?
I know there are some people with whom it's pointless to argue. But it's tough to let them have the last word
I have said my last words on why i choose to use a Blaster Mega ANY days before an Abaddon.
And because of my play style, there is nothing that can make me to use the Abaddon no matter what.
Looking at your kills, you don't use the mega or abaddon, so not sure what your point is.
You do call people names and go all emo though, when you lose an argument, that's very funny.
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
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Posted - 2009.04.10 02:38:00 -
[1776]
Edited by: NightmareX on 10/04/2009 02:41:51
Originally by: Quixess
Originally by: NightmareX
Originally by: Ephemeron
how long would this thread be if all the NightmareX and Childstar posts were deleted?
I know there are some people with whom it's pointless to argue. But it's tough to let them have the last word
I have said my last words on why i choose to use a Blaster Mega ANY days before an Abaddon.
And because of my play style, there is nothing that can make me to use the Abaddon no matter what.
Looking at your kills, you don't use the mega or abaddon, so not sure what your point is.
You do call people names and go all emo though, when you lose an argument, that's very funny.
Looking at your show info ingame doesn't tell me that you have been PVPing your self, at all.
I at least have some kills. 600 kills is a number i'm happy with. But then, kills is not what's most important for me.
Anyways. Everything alts says are always true.
Showing off you kills is nothing more than e-peens on who have the poorest RL. Or on who have the most time to play EVE.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Ephemeron
North Eastern Swat
Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2009.04.10 02:50:00 -
[1777]
Originally by: Farjung
When I last played, if you went out into 0.0 without a scout in a combat-fit battleship, you were going to lose it. Looking back at Axel's videos from many years ago, and then looking at mine, and then recalling how the game was a year later around the time I stopped playing, the potential to go out in a battleship hull by oneself and score kills without getting pinned down and ganked steadily diminished as a function of increased server population. It's logical to assume that nowadays it would just be an exercise in futility. If you limit yourself to only a sub-set of the population, via empire war, this problem disappears, but just going for a solo roam (truly solo, no alt scout) through 4 0.0 regions on an evening and scoring a bunch of kills is a thing of the past, and has been for a few years..
Farjung is talking sense. However, there IS still a way to solo pvp in a battleship, the last thread which makes it possible is the use of Cloak+mwd+warp tactic. When using it, you won't be able to tackle anyone, but you can get other people to attack you if they think they can gank you, then kill some of them, chase them off or deaggro and jump out.
If you become proficient with that tactic, you will realize that there's hope for solo battleship pvp yet. But it is the last thing left, now that nanoships are dead.
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lebrata
Hedion University
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Posted - 2009.04.10 09:20:00 -
[1778]
Edited by: lebrata on 10/04/2009 09:21:58
Originally by: NightmareX
Looking at your show info ingame doesn't tell me that you have been PVPing your self, at all.
I at least have some kills. 600 kills is a number i'm happy with. But then, kills is not what's most important for me.
Anyways. Everything alts says are always true.
Showing off you kills is nothing more than e-peens on who have the poorest RL. Or on who have the most time to play EVE.
You seem to be missing about 400 kills, did your dog eat them?. Kills and what ships you flew and the numbers involved to get them show what experiance you have. Its not about how much you play eve its about how well you play it, a player who plays for a few hours a week can pick up plenty of kills a month if he wanats to.
I think you are just a rather stupid troll with not even the slightest clue what you are talking about.
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Childstar
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Posted - 2009.04.10 09:35:00 -
[1779]
Originally by: Farjung
Please don't go overboard analysing what I said. It was just an off-the-cuff remark when I checked back on these forums as I do every few months and saw a 50+ page thread on blasters. The following two statements may well be true. I wouldn't know, I haven't played seriously in a long time, and am no longer as familiar with the combat mechanics as I was.
a) Blasterthrons are one of the most effective solo PvP battleships
b) It's not really possible to solo PvP in battleships in 0.0 any more
I couldn't really say if a) is true. Last time I played, in a 1 v 1 battleship situation where both sides were PvP setup and expending slots on tackling and mobility, blasterthrons performed fairly well, but that was a long time ago. But even then, such situations were hard to come by on TQ.
When I last played, if you went out into 0.0 without a scout in a combat-fit battleship, you were going to lose it. Looking back at Axel's videos from many years ago, and then looking at mine, and then recalling how the game was a year later around the time I stopped playing, the potential to go out in a battleship hull by oneself and score kills without getting pinned down and ganked steadily diminished as a function of increased server population. It's logical to assume that nowadays it would just be an exercise in futility. If you limit yourself to only a sub-set of the population, via empire war, this problem disappears, but just going for a solo roam (truly solo, no alt scout) through 4 0.0 regions on an evening and scoring a bunch of kills is a thing of the past, and has been for a few years.
And this is as intended and encouraged by CCP - the battleship as a solopwnmobile was intentionally castrated over the years, in addition to the effects of higher population density.
Its was pretty much dead and then CCP decided to introduce a web nerf that made tackling, holding and killing smaller ships almost impossable and that pretty much put the last nail in the coffin.
Originally by: Farjung
Once you start talking about gangs, the dynamics become a whole lot more complex. The size of the gang, the nature of the support. The bigger the gang, the more obvious the handicap of having to be within 15km of the target before doing appreciable damage is. Trying to generalise is futile - and it'll be more down to the quality of the warp-in and your EWar options vs theirs in a truly small gang scenario, and as the numbers scale it'll degenerate into how much damage each side can do how quickly, without being neutralised by falcons. The smaller the gang, the less handicapped the megathron is - the longer each target will last, and so the smaller the percentage of combat time spent getting into range is. If you assume that most of your combat will be within 15km of your warpin, blasterthron remains strong. Just as all you need to do is look at the optimal on mega pulse IIs to work out that laser boats will offer much more flexibility and scale better as gang size increases.
Small gang with BS is not really used either as their are smaller ships that can do great dps but are a lot more manouverable for the hit and run type of pvp small gangs do.
A blaster BS in small gang still needs to approach and stay close to the target/s to do high DPS, while a laser BS can land/lock/align and fire all at a more reasonable range making it more survivable if a blob/support turns up as well as being capable of doing its max dmg upon landing.
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Childstar
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Posted - 2009.04.10 09:44:00 -
[1780]
Originally by: NightmareX
picture + troll.
Nice self portrait, i assume that is YOU when your hero Farjung told you SOLO BS pvp is dead and also blaster BS suck at all but small gang pvp and even at that laser BS are better...
QQ more troll.
PS: You only have 200 kills EVER and NONE are in blaster BS you LIAR.
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Mag's
the united
Negative Ten.
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Posted - 2009.04.10 11:05:00 -
[1781]
I guess you could stretch the kills to 220 at best, and that's giving you the benefit of the doubt.
But none of those are in a Mega, lying and saying 600, is just daft.
Mind you, you would have us believe Electric Universe wasn't you, so I guess adding more kills is neither here nor there.
Regards
Mag |
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
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Posted - 2009.04.10 11:19:00 -
[1782]
Edited by: NightmareX on 10/04/2009 11:26:30
Originally by: lebrata
Edited by: lebrata on 10/04/2009 09:21:58
Originally by: NightmareX
Looking at your show info ingame doesn't tell me that you have been PVPing your self, at all.
I at least have some kills. 600 kills is a number i'm happy with. But then, kills is not what's most important for me.
Anyways. Everything alts says are always true.
Showing off you kills is nothing more than e-peens on who have the poorest RL. Or on who have the most time to play EVE.
You seem to be missing about 400 kills, did your dog eat them?. Kills and what ships you flew and the numbers involved to get them show what experiance you have. Its not about how much you play eve its about how well you play it, a player who plays for a few hours a week can pick up plenty of kills a month if he wanats to.
I think you are just a rather stupid troll with not even the slightest clue what you are talking about.
You must be very blind if you have missed the 348753796573894 times that i have told that Battleclinic miss most off my kills. But then, i'm not the person who post all of my kills on public killboards, so i can do some epic e-peen stroking.
Oh hahaha, look, a very stupid alt who doesn't have the balls to post with the main, lol fail fail fail fail.
Originally by: Childstar
Edited by: Childstar on 10/04/2009 11:06:57
Originally by: NightmareX
picture + troll.
Nice self portrait, i assume that is YOU when your hero Farjung told you SOLO BS pvp is dead and also blaster BS suck at all but small gang pvp and even at that laser BS are better...
QQ more troll.
PS: You only have 200 or so kills EVER and NONE are in blaster BS you LIAR.
I have 600 kills on TQ.
I don't know how many times i have told you that Battleclinic miss most of my kills. I even gave you the proof and linked you to another killboard that had killmails that was not on Battleclinic.
Go lose a fail Abaddon over it for me.
Originally by: Mag's
I guess you could stretch the kills to 220 at best, and that's giving you the benefit of the doubt.
But none of those are in a Mega, lying and saying 600, is just daft.
Mind you, you would have us believe Electric Universe wasn't you, so I guess adding more kills is neither here nor there.
When you take the kills that i posted on the TunDraGon killboard and when you take the other kills i didn't posted on Battleclinic that time, because i was not the person who like to post on public killboards that time. And i don't really like it now either.
The epic rabble about my kills here is a good enough reason to stay away from that crap.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Childstar
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Posted - 2009.04.10 11:38:00 -
[1783]
Edited by: Childstar on 10/04/2009 11:43:06
Originally by: NightmareX
Originally by: Mag's
I guess you could stretch the kills to 220 at best, and that's giving you the benefit of the doubt.
But none of those are in a Mega, lying and saying 600, is just daft.
Mind you, you would have us believe Electric Universe wasn't you, so I guess adding more kills is neither here nor there.
When you take the kills that i posted on the TunDraGon killboard and when you take the other kills i didn't posted on Battleclinic that time, because i was not the person who like to post on public killboards that time. And i don't really like it now either.
The epic rabble about my kills here is a good enough reason to stay away from that crap.
1. TunDraGon kills are on BC.
2. The link you gave to a KB with "other" kills on it was looked at briefly and there were NO BLASTER MEGA kills, and the kills i looked at and checked were also on BC although i did not check them all.
3. You want ppl to believe that in all the time you have played the BC just happened to miss 300% of you kills and EVERY kill and loss you took in a blaster BS?.
You have shown in this thread that you do not know how to fit, fly or even comprehend the problems blaster megas have on TQ, but you seem to want us to believe that you are knowledgable enough to tell ppl who have flown them that the problems do not exist?.
Originally by: NightmareX
EDIT: Mag's, do you have any comments about this?: link......
I prefer this one...
http://bl3h.evekb.co.uk/?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=200369&view=ships_weapons
Hey look somebody with proof of blaster XP on TQ.
And he has more kills than you on BC...
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Mag's
the united
Negative Ten.
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Posted - 2009.04.10 11:42:00 -
[1784]
Edited by: Mag''s on 10/04/2009 11:46:05
We don't use that Killboard, but nice try.
I've never gone on about how many kills I have, the issue was about you claiming to have 600, but failing to prove it.
You also claim to use the Mega, but failed to prove that too.
Find the correct Killboard first, then come back to me.
Edit: I use the Mega because I'm spec'd for it, I am training for lasers as I have said many times.
Regards
Mag |
Maggot
Minmatar
Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2009.04.10 11:48:00 -
[1785]
The total effective damage for all guns, the intergral of dps vs range, given all other factors should be equal.
If you compare the graphs for damage you can see that blasters have a far smaller integral than other weapons.
This means they are useless as fleet weapons but 800mm autos and Pulse lasers are still viable.
Blasters need a boost to bring their damage output in line with other weapons. The boost could be either more dps or better falloff. Pulse lasers are overpowered and should be hit with the nerf bat. 800mm are probably about right.
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
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Posted - 2009.04.10 11:56:00 -
[1786]
Originally by: Childstar
Edited by: Childstar on 10/04/2009 11:42:04
Edited by: Childstar on 10/04/2009 11:39:30
Originally by: NightmareX
Originally by: Mag's
I guess you could stretch the kills to 220 at best, and that's giving you the benefit of the doubt.
But none of those are in a Mega, lying and saying 600, is just daft.
Mind you, you would have us believe Electric Universe wasn't you, so I guess adding more kills is neither here nor there.
When you take the kills that i posted on the TunDraGon killboard and when you take the other kills i didn't posted on Battleclinic that time, because i was not the person who like to post on public killboards that time. And i don't really like it now either.
The epic rabble about my kills here is a good enough reason to stay away from that crap.
1. TunDraGon kills are on BC.
2. The link you gave to a KB with "other" kills on it was looked at briefly and there were NO BLASTER MEGA kills, and the kills i looked at and checked were also on BC although i did not check them all.
3. You want ppl to believe that in all the time you have played the BC just happened to miss 300% of you kills and EVERY kill and loss you took in a blaster BS?.
You have shown in this thread that you do not know how to fit, fly or even comprehend the problems blaster megas have on TQ, but you seem to want us to believe that you are knowledgable enough to tell ppl who have flown them that the problems do not exist?.
Originally by: NightmareX
EDIT: Mag's, do you have any comments about this?: link......
I prefer this one...
http://bl3h.evekb.co.uk/?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=200369&[/url]view=ships_weapons[/url]
Hey look somebody with proof of blaster XP on TQ.
And he has more kills than you on BC...
1. Yeah but not mine.
2. Because that was like 5-6 kills out of the 400+ kills that is not on Battleclinic. But still, i have a little over 600 kills in total.
3. I have some Blaster Mega kills back in the days, not from today.
4. I have shown that i'm not the pr0 master in EFT. But i have shown that i'm the pro master in doing maths.
5. Thats the last one. Yeah because he have posted his kills on there. I haven't.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Childstar
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Posted - 2009.04.10 12:07:00 -
[1787]
Edited by: Childstar on 10/04/2009 12:08:23
Originally by: NightmareX
1. Yeah but not mine.
How convienient..../....liar...
Originally by: NightmareX
2. Because that was like 5-6 kills out of the 400+ kills that is not on Battleclinic. But still, i have a little over 600 kills in total.
Proof of 400 more kills or STFU.
Originally by: NightmareX
3. I have some Blaster Mega kills back in the days, not from today.
Proof of blaster XP or STFU.
Originally by: NightmareX
4. I have shown that i'm not the pr0 master in EFT. But i have shown that i'm the pro master in doing maths.
You have shown you have no idea how wtf you are taking about and that you are a liar on many occasions. And you have done maths maybe 1 time....that hardly makes you a master although it is more than you have ever flown a blaster BS so i suppose you consider yourself experianced at maths after 1 sum...
Originally by: NightmareX
5. Thats the last one. Yeah because he have posted his kills on there. I haven't.
You do not need to post kills or losses on BC it updates from many KB's on eve so if a loss or a kill gets posted by anybody on a KB linked to it BC gets updated.
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Gabriel Karade
Gallente
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
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Posted - 2009.04.10 12:12:00 -
[1788]
--------------
Video - 'War-Machine' |
Mag's
the united
Negative Ten.
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Posted - 2009.04.10 12:36:00 -
[1789]
Edited by: Mag''s on 10/04/2009 12:40:46
Originally by: NightmareX
EDIT. LOL, 278 kills on battleclinic Mag's.
the united's killboard, of which you've yet to find, takes all our info from our API.
I've been with the united for 2 months give or take, and 3 weeks of that I didn't log on due to 12 hour night shifts.
Most of those kills on BC are from the united.
It's the most I've played since 2007, if you look at the kills on BC you'll see the dates of kills and the gaps, I hardly logged on in 2008.
My kills are not the issue here, although you seem to be desperately clinging on to them.
I've never ever posted any kills on Battleclinic, so they must collect and source them from killboards.
Now stop ranting and show us proof of your kills and Mega usage.
Edit: spelling
Regards
Mag |
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
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Posted - 2009.04.10 13:35:00 -
[1790]
Edited by: NightmareX on 10/04/2009 13:37:56
Originally by: Mag's
Now stop ranting and show us proof of your kills and Mega usage.
Edit: spelling
I'm not ranting, i'm telling how things are with Battleclinic and with my kills. if you don't believe me why i have more kills than Battleclinic says, then fine, but then don't talk about it here.
Make a new topic about me and battleclinic instead then.
Anyways, if i have had the kills from the time i used it stored somewhere, then i would post them, but as i have said for the 10000th time, those kills are long gone as the killmails i have from TunDraGon is to.
I even used my Machariel quite alot to when i was in TunDraGon.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
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Childstar
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Posted - 2009.04.10 13:50:00 -
[1791]
Edited by: Childstar on 10/04/2009 13:51:32
Originally by: NightmareX
Ok so your not a liar at all?.
I have no need to lie.
Originally by: NightmareX
5. And your not a liar because?.
Because i do not need to lie.
You make a lot of claims about them and what you did and what you flew and how many kills you got considering how short a time you were in the corp.....
Odd that in all the years you have played eve that the most active time and most uber killing spree just happen to be totally unprovable....
You lie a lot, this is just another lie on top of all the others...
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
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Posted - 2009.04.10 13:53:00 -
[1792]
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: NightmareX
Originally by: Mag's
Now stop ranting and show us proof of your kills and Mega usage.
Edit: spelling
I'm not ranting, i'm telling how things are with Battleclinic and with my kills. if you don't believe me why i have more kills than Battleclinic says, then fine, but then don't talk about it here.
Make a new topic about me and battleclinic instead then.
Anyways, if i have had the kills from the time i used it stored somewhere, then i would post them, but as i have said for the 10000th time, those kills are long gone as the killmails i have from TunDraGon is to.
I even used my Machariel quite alot to when i was in TunDraGon.
You make a lot of claims about them and what you did and what you flew and how many kills you got considering how short a time you were in the corp.....
Odd that in all the years you have played eve that the most active time and most uber killing spree just happen to be totally unprovable....
You lie a lot, this is just another lie on top of all the others...
And you don't lie much because?.
Oh your not lying because you say so, riiiiite?.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.04.10 13:54:00 -
[1793]
Originally by: Childstar
Edited by: Childstar on 10/04/2009 13:51:32
Originally by: NightmareX
Ok so your not a liar at all?.
I have no need to lie.
Originally by: NightmareX
5. And your not a liar because?.
Because i do not need to lie.
You make a lot of claims about them and what you did and what you flew and how many kills you got considering how short a time you were in the corp.....
Odd that in all the years you have played eve that the most active time and most uber killing spree just happen to be totally unprovable....
You lie a lot, this is just another lie on top of all the others...
1. I don't have the need to lie either. So STFU with your trolls.
2. I don't need to lie either.
2. Oh look, look how much cheast beating you do, i hope you feel awesome and cool because of it.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Childstar
|
Posted - 2009.04.10 13:54:00 -
[1794]
Edited by: Childstar on 10/04/2009 13:56:05
Originally by: NightmareX
And you don't lie much because?.
Because i do not need to, you on the other hand continuosly talk crap and lie and everybody sees you do it your a joke on this forum, in your own alliance and in the game.
|
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.04.10 13:59:00 -
[1795]
Edited by: NightmareX on 10/04/2009 14:01:42
Originally by: Childstar
Edited by: Childstar on 10/04/2009 13:56:05
Originally by: NightmareX
And you don't lie much because?.
Because i do not need to, you on the other hand continuosly talk crap and lie and everybody sees you do it your a joke on this forum, in your own alliance and in the game.
Only because you say so?.
Proof or STFU.
Yeah i can also say that i'm not lying. You don't have any more right to just say that i'm lying, because i can then all the time say that your lying to then. Deal?.
Oh look at the tears, they are sooooooooooooo sweet. And more cheast beating please, because it's fun to see how stupid you are because of that.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Ambrosse Brutus
|
Posted - 2009.04.10 14:05:00 -
[1796]
Originally by: Maggot
The total effective damage for all guns, the intergral of dps vs range, given all other factors should be equal.
I am using blasters on my next ship due to the fact that they have the best tracking speed of any other turret weapons which is a variable you seem to have not considered in your analysis. This would not lend itself well to a heavy slow ship such as a typical battleship but for a fast light cruiser or frigate blasters are a much better option.
|
Childstar
|
Posted - 2009.04.10 14:08:00 -
[1797]
Edited by: Childstar on 10/04/2009 14:09:37
Edited by: Childstar on 10/04/2009 14:08:09
Originally by: NightmareX
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: NightmareX
And you don't lie much because?.
Because i do not need to, you on the other hand continuosly talk crap and lie and everybody sees you do it your a joke on this forum, in your own alliance and in the game.
Only because you say so?.
Proof or STFU.
You want proof?...sure...
Your alliance member calling you a cluless lying fool..
Originally by: ChalSto
For gods shake.....look at your own alliance before you post such crap.
The megathron is a common ship in RR-gang...yes....but with RAILGUNS!
A RR-rep-bthron SUCKS in RR-gangs.
In 6 years of EvE, I havent seen a SINGLE working RR-rep-Bthron-gang. Not
a freaking single one. The ones that tryed it got owned so badly that it wasnt
even funny.
And now YOU come here, trying to tell ME, that a RR-bthron is awesome?
Even the RR-rep-Railthron is outperformed to badly by a rr-rep-typhoon, that
I fly one insteat of a mega in FoE gangs. And FoE are specialists in RR-gangs.
Hundreds of people tell you, that you are wrong. And yet you claim, that you
have enough experience to tell people like ME, that that I am wrong?
God damit....even CCP Nozh admited, that there¦s something wrong with blasters!
Its like you trying to tell Chribba how to mine veldspar.
You dont read the alliance forums
You dont participate on ops
You are barly online on TQ
Your experience with Bthrons are pretty limited
Normaly I wouldnt dare to smack allaince-m8s, but its getting pathetic.
OWNED.
|
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.04.10 14:10:00 -
[1798]
Edited by: NightmareX on 10/04/2009 14:11:30
Originally by: Childstar
Edited by: Childstar on 10/04/2009 14:09:37
Edited by: Childstar on 10/04/2009 14:08:09
Originally by: NightmareX
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: NightmareX
And you don't lie much because?.
Because i do not need to, you on the other hand continuosly talk crap and lie and everybody sees you do it your a joke on this forum, in your own alliance and in the game.
Only because you say so?.
Proof or STFU.
You want proof?...sure...
Your alliance member calling you a cluless lying fool..
Originally by: ChalSto
For gods shake.....look at your own alliance before you post such crap.
The megathron is a common ship in RR-gang...yes....but with RAILGUNS!
A RR-rep-bthron SUCKS in RR-gangs.
In 6 years of EvE, I havent seen a SINGLE working RR-rep-Bthron-gang. Not
a freaking single one. The ones that tryed it got owned so badly that it wasnt
even funny.
And now YOU come here, trying to tell ME, that a RR-bthron is awesome?
Even the RR-rep-Railthron is outperformed to badly by a rr-rep-typhoon, that
I fly one insteat of a mega in FoE gangs. And FoE are specialists in RR-gangs.
Hundreds of people tell you, that you are wrong. And yet you claim, that you
have enough experience to tell people like ME, that that I am wrong?
God damit....even CCP Nozh admited, that there¦s something wrong with blasters!
Its like you trying to tell Chribba how to mine veldspar.
You dont read the alliance forums
You dont participate on ops
You are barly online on TQ
Your experience with Bthrons are pretty limited
Normaly I wouldnt dare to smack allaince-m8s, but its getting pathetic.
OWNED.
LOL, and you forgot to check what i wrote to him after that, ahahaha.
That was not a proof at all, sorry.
Better luck next time dude.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Childstar
|
Posted - 2009.04.10 14:13:00 -
[1799]
Edited by: Childstar on 10/04/2009 14:13:27
Originally by: NightmareX
Only because you say so?.
Proof or STFU.
Your alliance member calling you a cluless lying fool..
Originally by: ChalSto
For gods shake.....look at your own alliance before you post such crap.
The megathron is a common ship in RR-gang...yes....but with RAILGUNS!
A RR-rep-bthron SUCKS in RR-gangs.
In 6 years of EvE, I havent seen a SINGLE working RR-rep-Bthron-gang. Not
a freaking single one. The ones that tryed it got owned so badly that it wasnt
even funny.
And now YOU come here, trying to tell ME, that a RR-bthron is awesome?
Even the RR-rep-Railthron is outperformed to badly by a rr-rep-typhoon, that
I fly one insteat of a mega in FoE gangs. And FoE are specialists in RR-gangs.
Hundreds of people tell you, that you are wrong. And yet you claim, that you
have enough experience to tell people like ME, that that I am wrong?
God damit....even CCP Nozh admited, that there¦s something wrong with blasters!
Its like you trying to tell Chribba how to mine veldspar.
You dont read the alliance forums
You dont participate on ops
You are barly online on TQ
Your experience with Bthrons are pretty limited
Normaly I wouldnt dare to smack allaince-m8s, but its getting pathetic.
OWNED.
|
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.04.10 14:15:00 -
[1800]
Edited by: NightmareX on 10/04/2009 14:16:21
Originally by: Ambrosse Brutus
Originally by: Maggot
The total effective damage for all guns, the intergral of dps vs range, given all other factors should be equal.
I am using blasters on my next ship due to the fact that they have the best tracking speed of any other turret weapons which is a variable you seem to have not considered in your analysis. This would not lend itself well to a heavy slow ship such as a typical battleship but for a fast light cruiser or frigate blasters are a much better option.
Exactly, this is also why i use Blaster Megas when it's about smaller targets over an Abaddon.
But when it's ONLY about going after smaller targets than BS'es, then a Tempest is pretty nice though.
Originally by: Childstar
Edited by: Childstar on 10/04/2009 14:13:27
Originally by: NightmareX
Only because you say so?.
Proof or STFU.
Your alliance member calling you a cluless lying fool..
Originally by: ChalSto
For gods shake.....look at your own alliance before you post such crap.
The megathron is a common ship in RR-gang...yes....but with RAILGUNS!
A RR-rep-bthron SUCKS in RR-gangs.
In 6 years of EvE, I havent seen a SINGLE working RR-rep-Bthron-gang. Not
a freaking single one. The ones that tryed it got owned so badly that it wasnt
even funny.
And now YOU come here, trying to tell ME, that a RR-bthron is awesome?
Even the RR-rep-Railthron is outperformed to badly by a rr-rep-typhoon, that
I fly one insteat of a mega in FoE gangs. And FoE are specialists in RR-gangs.
Hundreds of people tell you, that you are wrong. And yet you claim, that you
have enough experience to tell people like ME, that that I am wrong?
God damit....even CCP Nozh admited, that there¦s something wrong with blasters!
Its like you trying to tell Chribba how to mine veldspar.
You dont read the alliance forums
You dont participate on ops
You are barly online on TQ
Your experience with Bthrons are pretty limited
Normaly I wouldnt dare to smack allaince-m8s, but its getting pathetic.
OWNED.
Oh look, posting multiple times just to prove nothing.
I can post that to if i want, because it doesn't mean anything noob.
Ahh damnit, your bitter again, and are going on a craaaaaazy repeat posting cycle.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
|
|
Childstar
|
Posted - 2009.04.10 14:21:00 -
[1801]
Originally by: NightmareX
Originally by: Ambrosse Brutus
Originally by: Maggot
The total effective damage for all guns, the intergral of dps vs range, given all other factors should be equal.
I am using blasters on my next ship due to the fact that they have the best tracking speed of any other turret weapons which is a variable you seem to have not considered in your analysis. This would not lend itself well to a heavy slow ship such as a typical battleship but for a fast light cruiser or frigate blasters are a much better option.
Exactly, this is also why i use Blaster Megas when it's about smaller targets over an Abaddon.
But when it's ONLY about going after smaller targets than BS'es, then a Tempest is pretty nice though.
1. You need to learn how to read and comprehend...
Quote:
This would NOT lend itself well to a heavy slow ship such as a typical battleship but for a fast light cruiser or frigate blasters are a much better option.
2. YOU DO NOT FLY MEGAS AT ALL....STOP LYING.
Originally by: NightmareX
Exactly, this is also why i use Blaster Megas when it's about smaller targets over an Abaddon.
|
Childstar
|
Posted - 2009.04.10 14:22:00 -
[1802]
Originally by: NightmareX
Only because you say so?.
Proof or STFU.
Your alliance member calling you a cluless lying fool..
Originally by: ChalSto
For gods shake.....look at your own alliance before you post such crap.
The megathron is a common ship in RR-gang...yes....but with RAILGUNS!
A RR-rep-bthron SUCKS in RR-gangs.
In 6 years of EvE, I havent seen a SINGLE working RR-rep-Bthron-gang. Not
a freaking single one. The ones that tryed it got owned so badly that it wasnt
even funny.
And now YOU come here, trying to tell ME, that a RR-bthron is awesome?
Even the RR-rep-Railthron is outperformed to badly by a rr-rep-typhoon, that
I fly one insteat of a mega in FoE gangs. And FoE are specialists in RR-gangs.
Hundreds of people tell you, that you are wrong. And yet you claim, that you
have enough experience to tell people like ME, that that I am wrong?
God damit....even CCP Nozh admited, that there¦s something wrong with blasters!
Its like you trying to tell Chribba how to mine veldspar.
You dont read the alliance forums
You dont participate on ops
You are barly online on TQ
Your experience with Bthrons are pretty limited
Normaly I wouldnt dare to smack allaince-m8s, but its getting pathetic.
OWNED.
|
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.04.10 14:22:00 -
[1803]
Edited by: NightmareX on 10/04/2009 14:23:21
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: NightmareX
Originally by: Ambrosse Brutus
Originally by: Maggot
The total effective damage for all guns, the intergral of dps vs range, given all other factors should be equal.
I am using blasters on my next ship due to the fact that they have the best tracking speed of any other turret weapons which is a variable you seem to have not considered in your analysis. This would not lend itself well to a heavy slow ship such as a typical battleship but for a fast light cruiser or frigate blasters are a much better option.
Exactly, this is also why i use Blaster Megas when it's about smaller targets over an Abaddon.
But when it's ONLY about going after smaller targets than BS'es, then a Tempest is pretty nice though.
1. You need to learn how to read and comprehend...
Quote:
This would NOT lend itself well to a heavy slow ship such as a typical battleship but for a fast light cruiser or frigate blasters are a much better option.
2. YOU DO NOT FLY MEGAS AT ALL....STOP LYING.
Originally by: NightmareX
Exactly, this is also why i use Blaster Megas when it's about smaller targets over an Abaddon.
Oh rabble rabble rabble much?.
Don't you have anything more to do than doing the rabble rabble rabble?.
Your not convincing me to fly an Abaddon more by this.
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: NightmareX
Only because you say so?.
Proof or STFU.
Your alliance member calling you a cluless lying fool..
Originally by: ChalSto
For gods shake.....look at your own alliance before you post such crap.
The megathron is a common ship in RR-gang...yes....but with RAILGUNS!
A RR-rep-bthron SUCKS in RR-gangs.
In 6 years of EvE, I havent seen a SINGLE working RR-rep-Bthron-gang. Not
a freaking single one. The ones that tryed it got owned so badly that it wasnt
even funny.
And now YOU come here, trying to tell ME, that a RR-bthron is awesome?
Even the RR-rep-Railthron is outperformed to badly by a rr-rep-typhoon, that
I fly one insteat of a mega in FoE gangs. And FoE are specialists in RR-gangs.
Hundreds of people tell you, that you are wrong. And yet you claim, that you
have enough experience to tell people like ME, that that I am wrong?
God damit....even CCP Nozh admited, that there¦s something wrong with blasters!
Its like you trying to tell Chribba how to mine veldspar.
You dont read the alliance forums
You dont participate on ops
You are barly online on TQ
Your experience with Bthrons are pretty limited
Normaly I wouldnt dare to smack allaince-m8s, but its getting pathetic.
OWNED.
I think it's you that are OWNED, because your nothing more than bitter now.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Childstar
|
Posted - 2009.04.10 14:25:00 -
[1804]
Originally by: NightmareX
Only because you say so?.
Proof or STFU.
Your alliance member calling you a cluless lying fool..
Originally by: ChalSto
For gods shake.....look at your own alliance before you post such crap.
The megathron is a common ship in RR-gang...yes....but with RAILGUNS!
A RR-rep-bthron SUCKS in RR-gangs.
In 6 years of EvE, I havent seen a SINGLE working RR-rep-Bthron-gang. Not
a freaking single one. The ones that tryed it got owned so badly that it wasnt
even funny.
And now YOU come here, trying to tell ME, that a RR-bthron is awesome?
Even the RR-rep-Railthron is outperformed to badly by a rr-rep-typhoon, that
I fly one insteat of a mega in FoE gangs. And FoE are specialists in RR-gangs.
Hundreds of people tell you, that you are wrong. And yet you claim, that you
have enough experience to tell people like ME, that that I am wrong?
God damit....even CCP Nozh admited, that there¦s something wrong with blasters!
Its like you trying to tell Chribba how to mine veldspar.
You dont read the alliance forums
You dont participate on ops
You are barly online on TQ
Your experience with Bthrons are pretty limited
Normaly I wouldnt dare to smack allaince-m8s, but its getting pathetic.
OWNED.
|
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.04.10 14:26:00 -
[1805]
Edited by: NightmareX on 10/04/2009 14:26:15
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: NightmareX
Only because you say so?.
Proof or STFU.
Your alliance member calling you a cluless lying fool..
Originally by: ChalSto
For gods shake.....look at your own alliance before you post such crap.
The megathron is a common ship in RR-gang...yes....but with RAILGUNS!
A RR-rep-bthron SUCKS in RR-gangs.
In 6 years of EvE, I havent seen a SINGLE working RR-rep-Bthron-gang. Not
a freaking single one. The ones that tryed it got owned so badly that it wasnt
even funny.
And now YOU come here, trying to tell ME, that a RR-bthron is awesome?
Even the RR-rep-Railthron is outperformed to badly by a rr-rep-typhoon, that
I fly one insteat of a mega in FoE gangs. And FoE are specialists in RR-gangs.
Hundreds of people tell you, that you are wrong. And yet you claim, that you
have enough experience to tell people like ME, that that I am wrong?
God damit....even CCP Nozh admited, that there¦s something wrong with blasters!
Its like you trying to tell Chribba how to mine veldspar.
You dont read the alliance forums
You dont participate on ops
You are barly online on TQ
Your experience with Bthrons are pretty limited
Normaly I wouldnt dare to smack allaince-m8s, but its getting pathetic.
OWNED.
Bitter much?.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Childstar
|
Posted - 2009.04.10 14:29:00 -
[1806]
Originally by: NightmareX
Only because you say so?.
Proof or STFU.
Your alliance member calling you a cluless lying fool..
Originally by: ChalSto
For gods shake.....look at your own alliance before you post such crap.
The megathron is a common ship in RR-gang...yes....but with RAILGUNS!
A RR-rep-bthron SUCKS in RR-gangs.
In 6 years of EvE, I havent seen a SINGLE working RR-rep-Bthron-gang. Not
a freaking single one. The ones that tryed it got owned so badly that it wasnt
even funny.
And now YOU come here, trying to tell ME, that a RR-bthron is awesome?
Even the RR-rep-Railthron is outperformed to badly by a rr-rep-typhoon, that
I fly one insteat of a mega in FoE gangs. And FoE are specialists in RR-gangs.
Hundreds of people tell you, that you are wrong. And yet you claim, that you
have enough experience to tell people like ME, that that I am wrong?
God damit....even CCP Nozh admited, that there¦s something wrong with blasters!
Its like you trying to tell Chribba how to mine veldspar.
You dont read the alliance forums
You dont participate on ops
You are barly online on TQ
Your experience with Bthrons are pretty limited
Normaly I wouldnt dare to smack allaince-m8s, but its getting pathetic.
OWNED.
|
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.04.10 14:31:00 -
[1807]
Edited by: NightmareX on 10/04/2009 14:31:57
Originally by: Childstar
Some epic noob rant, trolls and some epic crying and whining
OWNED MUCH?.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Childstar
|
Posted - 2009.04.10 14:32:00 -
[1808]
Originally by: NightmareX
Only because you say so?.
Proof or STFU.
Your alliance member calling you a cluless lying fool..
Originally by: ChalSto
For gods shake.....look at your own alliance before you post such crap.
The megathron is a common ship in RR-gang...yes....but with RAILGUNS!
A RR-rep-bthron SUCKS in RR-gangs.
In 6 years of EvE, I havent seen a SINGLE working RR-rep-Bthron-gang. Not
a freaking single one. The ones that tryed it got owned so badly that it wasnt
even funny.
And now YOU come here, trying to tell ME, that a RR-bthron is awesome?
Even the RR-rep-Railthron is outperformed to badly by a rr-rep-typhoon, that
I fly one insteat of a mega in FoE gangs. And FoE are specialists in RR-gangs.
Hundreds of people tell you, that you are wrong. And yet you claim, that you
have enough experience to tell people like ME, that that I am wrong?
God damit....even CCP Nozh admited, that there¦s something wrong with blasters!
Its like you trying to tell Chribba how to mine veldspar.
You dont read the alliance forums
You dont participate on ops
You are barly online on TQ
Your experience with Bthrons are pretty limited
Normaly I wouldnt dare to smack allaince-m8s, but its getting pathetic.
OWNED.
|
Rhadamantine
Game Community
|
Posted - 2009.04.10 14:33:00 -
[1809]
Originally by: NightmareX
Originally by: Childstar
Stuff....
OWNED
Are you even on the same planet as the rest of us?
You're delusional at best, I am concerned about your mental welfare.
|
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.04.10 14:33:00 -
[1810]
Edited by: NightmareX on 10/04/2009 14:35:36
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: NightmareX
Only because you say so?.
Proof or STFU.
Your alliance member calling you a cluless lying fool..
Originally by: ChalSto
For gods shake.....look at your own alliance before you post such crap.
The megathron is a common ship in RR-gang...yes....but with RAILGUNS!
A RR-rep-bthron SUCKS in RR-gangs.
In 6 years of EvE, I havent seen a SINGLE working RR-rep-Bthron-gang. Not
a freaking single one. The ones that tryed it got owned so badly that it wasnt
even funny.
And now YOU come here, trying to tell ME, that a RR-bthron is awesome?
Even the RR-rep-Railthron is outperformed to badly by a rr-rep-typhoon, that
I fly one insteat of a mega in FoE gangs. And FoE are specialists in RR-gangs.
Hundreds of people tell you, that you are wrong. And yet you claim, that you
have enough experience to tell people like ME, that that I am wrong?
God damit....even CCP Nozh admited, that there¦s something wrong with blasters!
Its like you trying to tell Chribba how to mine veldspar.
You dont read the alliance forums
You dont participate on ops
You are barly online on TQ
Your experience with Bthrons are pretty limited
Normaly I wouldnt dare to smack allaince-m8s, but its getting pathetic.
OWNED.
Your posting skills sucks.
Originally by: Rhadamantine
Originally by: NightmareX
Originally by: Childstar
Stuff....
OWNED
Are you even on the same planet as the rest of us?
You're delusional at best, I am concerned about your mental welfare.
Hey, i'm just trying to be Child here.
Oh noes, what did i say, i did say that i'm trying to be like a child, ops.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
|
|
Childstar
|
Posted - 2009.04.10 14:37:00 -
[1811]
Originally by: NightmareX
Only because you say so?.
Proof or STFU.
Your alliance member calling you a cluless lying fool..
Originally by: ChalSto
For gods shake.....look at your own alliance before you post such crap.
The megathron is a common ship in RR-gang...yes....but with RAILGUNS!
A RR-rep-bthron SUCKS in RR-gangs.
In 6 years of EvE, I havent seen a SINGLE working RR-rep-Bthron-gang. Not
a freaking single one. The ones that tryed it got owned so badly that it wasnt
even funny.
And now YOU come here, trying to tell ME, that a RR-bthron is awesome?
Even the RR-rep-Railthron is outperformed to badly by a rr-rep-typhoon, that
I fly one insteat of a mega in FoE gangs. And FoE are specialists in RR-gangs.
Hundreds of people tell you, that you are wrong. And yet you claim, that you
have enough experience to tell people like ME, that that I am wrong?
God damit....even CCP Nozh admited, that there¦s something wrong with blasters!
Its like you trying to tell Chribba how to mine veldspar.
You dont read the alliance forums
You dont participate on ops
You are barly online on TQ
Your experience with Bthrons are pretty limited
Normaly I wouldnt dare to smack allaince-m8s, but its getting pathetic.
OWNED.
|
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.04.10 14:38:00 -
[1812]
Edited by: NightmareX on 10/04/2009 14:46:23
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: NightmareX
Only because you say so?.
Proof or STFU.
Your alliance member calling you a cluless lying fool..
Originally by: ChalSto
For gods shake.....look at your own alliance before you post such crap.
The megathron is a common ship in RR-gang...yes....but with RAILGUNS!
A RR-rep-bthron SUCKS in RR-gangs.
In 6 years of EvE, I havent seen a SINGLE working RR-rep-Bthron-gang. Not
a freaking single one. The ones that tryed it got owned so badly that it wasnt
even funny.
And now YOU come here, trying to tell ME, that a RR-bthron is awesome?
Even the RR-rep-Railthron is outperformed to badly by a rr-rep-typhoon, that
I fly one insteat of a mega in FoE gangs. And FoE are specialists in RR-gangs.
Hundreds of people tell you, that you are wrong. And yet you claim, that you
have enough experience to tell people like ME, that that I am wrong?
God damit....even CCP Nozh admited, that there¦s something wrong with blasters!
Its like you trying to tell Chribba how to mine veldspar.
You dont read the alliance forums
You dont participate on ops
You are barly online on TQ
Your experience with Bthrons are pretty limited
Normaly I wouldnt dare to smack allaince-m8s, but its getting pathetic.
OWNED.
Your posting skills still sucks. And you can't even read what i have replied to him after that.
Go lose an Abaddon over you bitterness.
Are you going to convince me to use an Abaddon over a Blaster Mega, or are you gonna do the emo posting like you do now?.
I'll guess i know the answer already, you don't want me to use the Abaddon right?. Ok, fine, KTNXBAI.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Childstar
Minmatar
Republic University
|
Posted - 2009.04.10 14:43:00 -
[1813]
Originally by: NightmareX
Are you going to convince me to use an Abaddon over a Blaster Mega, or are you gonna do the emo posting like you do now?.
You do not use the mega so i do not need to do anything.
PS: do you like my sig?.
Getting spanked by your own alliance is embarresing |
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.04.10 14:45:00 -
[1814]
Edited by: NightmareX on 10/04/2009 14:46:50
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: NightmareX
Are you going to convince me to use an Abaddon over a Blaster Mega, or are you gonna do the emo posting like you do now?.
You do not use the mega so i do not need to do anything.
PS: do you like my sig?.
Ok so if i'm not using the Mega, then you really should convince to use an Abaddon before i start to use a Blaster Mega LOL.
Comeon, you have the chance now.
EDIT: Yes i like your sig, because it shows hos bitter and emo you are there.
Anyways, enjoy the spam from Childstar here while i'm away to fix a Nissan 200SX S14a car.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Childstar
Minmatar
Republic University
|
Posted - 2009.04.10 14:53:00 -
[1815]
Originally by: NightmareX
Ok so if i'm not using the Mega, then you REALLY should convince to use an Abaddon before i start to use a Blaster Mega LOL.
Do you think i care if you decide fly a mega or a abaddon?, this thread is about the problems with BS blasters and some of the ships that fit them not a stupid and clueless troll.
Getting spanked in public by your own alliance is embarresing |
LeeWoonJae
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Posted - 2009.04.10 15:30:00 -
[1816]
Sorry I'm new here...but can this thread get more boring and annoying than it is atm? seriously! Can't you two agree to disagree? Please?
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Liang Nuren
No Salvation
PuPPet MasTers
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Posted - 2009.04.10 16:34:00 -
[1817]
Originally by: Gabriel Karade
Gabe, WTF man.... tell me you are seriously not in corp with that tool... Or at least vouch for him not being the utter tard he looks like. Please. Please?
-Liang
--
Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
www.kwikdeath.org |
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
PuPPet MasTers
|
Posted - 2009.04.10 16:41:00 -
[1818]
Edited by: Liang Nuren on 10/04/2009 16:45:42
Originally by: LeeWoonJae
Sorry I'm new here...but can this thread get more boring and annoying than it is atm? seriously! Can't you two agree to disagree? Please?
No, this is the worst thread I've ever seen on Eve-O. Hell, even my disagreements with Goum and the Great Amarrian Whine Squad of Olde were semi-civil and action packed with numbers and logical arguments.
-Liang
Ed: I will say that, as with most arguments, there are a certain amount of somewhat unquantifiable valuess (such as the value of range, the value of cap usage with the ubiquity of cap boosters, how common omnitanking is and what the average disparity is in effective damage on a given damage type vs another, etc). Most of these are unquantifiable because we all travel in different circles and in different areas.
For example, for a long time, I flew in Metro lowsec and explosive damage is very common there. Goumindong flew down south in The Great War against BOB and insisted I was an idiot for fitting an explo hardener. I insisted he was an idiot for fitting a plate. We were both probably correct for our situations.
And then again, there are sometimes real idiots that frequent the forums and spout meaningless drivel without any real pretention to have a real conversation or back up their arguments. ::looks at this thread::
--
Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
www.kwikdeath.org |
Childstar
Minmatar
Republic University
|
Posted - 2009.04.10 17:08:00 -
[1819]
Edited by: Childstar on 10/04/2009 17:10:18
Originally by: Liang Nuren
No, this is the worst thread I've ever seen on Eve-O. Hell, even my disagreements with Goum and the Great Amarrian Whine Squad of Olde were semi-civil and action packed with numbers and logical arguments.
-Liang
Logical arguments have been done, figures and stats have been posted and compared and realistic available scenarios on TQ have been discussed.
Unfortunatly when they showed what NMX did not want them to show his arguments became based on pimped fits, faction ships and a lot of ranting about experiance and pvp he has never had or done.
Then when that did not work out so well we have now a page or so full of his delusions about solo BS pvp being fully and readily available on TQ and the effectivness of the blaster mega as a solo ship.
If you look at the progression through the thread it goes.....
NMX makes a absurd claim, claim gets disproved, NMX goes on a emo rant, NMX changes his mind or makes up another claim. This progression repeats itself on several subjects throughout the thread from fitting to tanks to relative DPS to RR effectivness ect ect.
We just covered cap and tracking and solo work for BS (although he NOW claims that has been his point all along) and have just about got past the emo rant stage.....i hope.
Getting spanked in public by your own alliance is embarresing |
Maggot
Minmatar
Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude
Ushra'Khan
|
Posted - 2009.04.10 17:13:00 -
[1820]
Originally by: Ambrosse Brutus
Originally by: Maggot
The total effective damage for all guns, the intergral of dps vs range, given all other factors should be equal.
I am using blasters on my next ship due to the fact that they have the best tracking speed of any other turret weapons which is a variable you seem to have not considered in your analysis. This would not lend itself well to a heavy slow ship such as a typical battleship but for a fast light cruiser or frigate blasters are a much better option.
A fast cruiser pack is going to be out of range very quickly. The most effective ship for what you are after is the pulse-apoc. Has great damage, range and tracking with the right setup.
I think some of the other posters have hit the nail on the head. If blaster BS weapons were effective then they would be requested in fleet ops. I have only ever seen them requested when needed to nail a static target (e.g A POS mod or small/med tower).
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Traderboz
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Posted - 2009.04.10 17:21:00 -
[1821]
This thread has pretty much devolved into Nightmare and Child posting "NO U!!1" back and forth, except with more block quotes. You guys aren't going to convince each other, and you've both made some valid points, so might as well drop it imo. I'm surprised Mods haven't visited this thread lately, but I suppose they've just given up hope. I'd personally hate it if I had to clean up a lot of this mess, lol.
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lecrotta
Minmatar
lecrotta Corp
|
Posted - 2009.04.10 17:28:00 -
[1822]
Originally by: Maggot
Originally by: Ambrosse Brutus
Originally by: Maggot
The total effective damage for all guns, the intergral of dps vs range, given all other factors should be equal.
I am using blasters on my next ship due to the fact that they have the best tracking speed of any other turret weapons which is a variable you seem to have not considered in your analysis. This would not lend itself well to a heavy slow ship such as a typical battleship but for a fast light cruiser or frigate blasters are a much better option.
A fast cruiser pack is going to be out of range very quickly. The most effective ship for what you are after is the pulse-apoc. Has great damage, range and tracking with the right setup.
I think some of the other posters have hit the nail on the head. If blaster BS weapons were effective then they would be requested in fleet ops. I have only ever seen them requested when needed to nail a static target (e.g A POS mod or small/med tower).
You can use blaster BS for ganking undocking ships reasonably effectivly, but no more than any other BS really they just do not suffer the range and or cap problems from mwding that they normally do in those situations.
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Rogue Lilly
Caldari
Lords Of Filth
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Posted - 2009.04.10 20:50:00 -
[1823]
I would like to weigh in with my limited knowledge.
don't hate on blasters until you've had to fly an AC ship. The problem I keep hearing is that their range is too short.
Well AC range is the same range if not shorter, yeah it has a much larger falloff where you can hit about half the time if you're lucky and those hits will be for about 30% of your already stupidly low damage.
Oh and did I mention that ships with bonuses to AC will also have a much weaker tank than gallante ships.
The problem you're encountering now OP is that no one wants anything that isn't a lazor ship because people who play eve think that if something has .05% less damage it is "a complete failship that suxors and we don't want it in our fleet."
After flying amarr, then caldari, then minmatari all the way up to battle cruiser and just now training and flying gallante I have to say that autocannons are by the far the worst weapon in the entire game....except for artillery.
I know it may seem annoying to try and close the distance to use blasters, but it's a lot less annoying than actually being in range for 3 minutes straight doing grazing hits for 11 damage because an autocannons big benefit is that it's "niche" is mid range in which it completely misses everything. So you either stay in mid range and do so little damage an armor tanked ships shield will still passively regen faster than you can hurt them, or you close into the distance in which you can actually do damage with an AC.....oh but wait, the distance at which autocannons begin doing a decent level of damage IS blaster range, and your autocannon's decent damage at that range is still half of what the blasters are doing.
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Childstar
Minmatar
Republic University
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Posted - 2009.04.10 21:28:00 -
[1824]
Edited by: Childstar on 10/04/2009 21:32:11
1 x RR Blaster Mega with 2 x mag stabs vs 1 x RR Typhoon with 1 x BCU.
Mega gets 1132 max raw dmg.
Typo gets 1006 max raw dmg.
RR Phoon gets 382 dps after/against FULL omni tank resistances.
RR Megas gets 356 dps after/against FULL omni tank resistances.
The joke is that the mega cannot fit the FULL omni tank and the phoon does not cos its gets better overall resists with a hardener/dcu/twin plate setup.
Oh and in their ACTUAL AVAILABLE fits vs each others resists/tank...
The phoon hits the mega for 422.3 dps after the megas resists.
The mega hits the phoon for 311.3 dps after the phoons resists.
So even with 1 dmg mod on the phoon, and the mega with 2 dmg mods the phoon hits the MEGA for 111 dps more AFTER their relative risists.
Getting spanked in public by your own alliance is embarresing |
Gabriel Karade
Gallente
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.04.10 21:29:00 -
[1825]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: Gabriel Karade
Gabe, WTF man.... tell me you are seriously not in corp with that tool... Or at least vouch for him not being the utter tard he looks like. Please. Please?
-Liang
I really can't believe this 'thread' hasn't been locked
KOS is good fun, actually started flying an interceptor, funnily enough, around the same time I stopped flying my trusty Blasterthron solo in 0.0 (~3 years in Curse). Strange that eh?
--------------
Video - 'War-Machine' |
Rogue Lilly
Caldari
Lords Of Filth
|
Posted - 2009.04.10 21:36:00 -
[1826]
Originally by: Childstar
Edited by: Childstar on 10/04/2009 21:32:11
1 x RR Blaster Mega with 2 x mag stabs vs 1 x RR Typhoon with 1 x BCU.
Mega gets 1132 max raw dmg.
Typo gets 1006 max raw dmg.
RR Phoon gets 382 dps after/against FULL omni tank resistances.
RR Megas gets 356 dps after/against FULL omni tank resistances.
The joke is that the mega cannot fit the FULL omni tank and the phoon does not cos its gets better overall resists with a hardener/dcu/twin plate setup.
Oh and in their ACTUAL AVAILABLE fits vs each others resists/tank...
The phoon hits the mega for 422.3 dps after the megas resists.
The mega hits the phoon for 311.3 dps after the phoons resists.
So even with 1 dmg mod on the phoon, and the mega with 2 dmg mods the phoon hits the MEGA for 111 dps more AFTER their relative risists.
you are correct that a phoon flown by a character with 50m sp will do a lot of damage, now compair ANY other ship, especially anything below battleships size.
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Childstar
Minmatar
Republic University
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Posted - 2009.04.10 21:42:00 -
[1827]
Originally by: Rogue Lilly
Originally by: Childstar
1 x RR Blaster Mega with 2 x mag stabs vs 1 x RR Typhoon with 1 x BCU.
Mega gets 1132 max raw dmg.
Typo gets 1006 max raw dmg.
RR Phoon gets 382 dps after/against FULL omni tank resistances.
RR Megas gets 356 dps after/against FULL omni tank resistances.
The joke is that the mega cannot fit the FULL omni tank and the phoon does not cos its gets better overall resists with a hardener/dcu/twin plate setup.
Oh and in their ACTUAL AVAILABLE fits vs each others resists/tank...
The phoon hits the mega for 422.3 dps after the megas resists.
The mega hits the phoon for 311.3 dps after the phoons resists.
So even with 1 dmg mod on the phoon, and the mega with 2 dmg mods the phoon hits the MEGA for 111 dps more AFTER their relative risists.
you are correct that a phoon flown by a character with 50m sp will do a lot of damage, now compare ANY other ship, especially anything below battleships size.
You do know that this is about problems BS sized blasters and the ships that use them dont you?.
Getting spanked in public by your own alliance is embarresing |
Rogue Lilly
Caldari
Lords Of Filth
|
Posted - 2009.04.10 21:50:00 -
[1828]
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: Rogue Lilly
Originally by: Childstar
1 x RR Blaster Mega with 2 x mag stabs vs 1 x RR Typhoon with 1 x BCU.
Mega gets 1132 max raw dmg.
Typo gets 1006 max raw dmg.
RR Phoon gets 382 dps after/against FULL omni tank resistances.
RR Megas gets 356 dps after/against FULL omni tank resistances.
The joke is that the mega cannot fit the FULL omni tank and the phoon does not cos its gets better overall resists with a hardener/dcu/twin plate setup.
Oh and in their ACTUAL AVAILABLE fits vs each others resists/tank...
The phoon hits the mega for 422.3 dps after the megas resists.
The mega hits the phoon for 311.3 dps after the phoons resists.
So even with 1 dmg mod on the phoon, and the mega with 2 dmg mods the phoon hits the MEGA for 111 dps more AFTER their relative risists.
you are correct that a phoon flown by a character with 50m sp will do a lot of damage, now compare ANY other ship, especially anything below battleships size.
You do know that this is about problems BS sized blasters and the ships that use them dont you?.
oops, no, I kept seeing the brutix being brought up so I thought it was blasters in general. But it seems that every large weapon system has issues except rails and lazors.
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Childstar
Minmatar
Republic University
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Posted - 2009.04.10 21:54:00 -
[1829]
Originally by: Rogue Lilly
Originally by: Childstar
You do know that this is about problems BS sized blasters and the ships that use them dont you?.
oops, no, I kept seeing the brutix being brought up so I thought it was blasters in general. But it seems that every large weapon system has issues except rails and lazors.
Rails are ok for sniping but a pain to fit with a good tank on the mega if you wish to use them in RR gangs along with the dmg being rather meh....
Getting spanked in public by your own alliance is embarresing |
Cache Oblivion
|
Posted - 2009.04.10 22:24:00 -
[1830]
so to sum it up:
this thread got totally derailed/overloled by 2 stubborn donkeys (childstar and nightmare)
who both have some vailid points about "some" issues blasters etc have, but both fail to discuss the matter basing on facts current tq mechanics....
what we witness here is in the red corner:
- every laser ships does 1k dps while tanking anything at 45k, has the ehp of the chinese wall and cap is no problem at all even though its amarr. in the meantime blasters have problems tracking bs at close range and lasers kill anything at the same range cause they track like -50% better when the mega uses Null Ammo. In remote rep situations the amarr ships rock cause they are super awesome when it comes to running guns and rep at the same time, every enemy target will be right at the scorch optimal of pulse lasers so a blaser mega will need to mwd 45 km for each new target to kill.
the blue corner says:
- megas instapop anything at close and the webnerf did not hurt them at all. the blaster mega is "nearly capless". you only need to use your mwd once then thats it. blaster megas track anything at any range no matter what. versatility means beiong the best in the current flavour of the month warfare.
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Childstar
Minmatar
Republic University
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Posted - 2009.04.10 22:34:00 -
[1831]
Edited by: Childstar on 10/04/2009 22:35:29
Originally by: Cache Oblivion
- every laser ships does 1k dps while tanking anything at 45k
Nobody has said that, and the abaddon was mostly under discussion not every amarr BS.
Originally by: Cache Oblivion
has the ehp of the chinese wall and cap is no problem at all even though its amarr.
That the abad has the best standard BS ehp relative to simular fittings is not in question, and cap is not as much of a problem as ppl claim with a injector fitted.
Originally by: Cache Oblivion
in the meantime blasters have problems tracking bs at close range and lasers kill anything at the same range cause they track like -50% better when the mega uses Null Ammo.
Are you on medication?.
Originally by: Cache Oblivion
In remote rep situations the amarr ships rock cause they are super awesome when it comes to running guns and rep at the same time, every enemy target will be right at the scorch optimal of pulse lasers so a blaser mega will need to mwd 45 km for each new target to kill.
What ever you are on you should stop using it.
Getting spanked in public by your own alliance is embarresing |
Goumindong
Amarr
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.04.11 00:17:00 -
[1832]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
For example, for a long time, I flew in Metro lowsec and explosive damage is very common there. Goumindong flew down south in The Great War against BOB and insisted I was an idiot for fitting an explo hardener. I insisted he was an idiot for fitting a plate. We were both probably correct for our situations.
Actually i was saying that you cannot balance around people using more explosive damage than you should expect. If you know people are going to be flying more ships with explosive damage then fitting an explosive hardener can make sense. BUT balancing around that is foolish, since the advantage that you're gaining is from outsmarting your opponent and not anything inherent in the system.
I.E. it would be like a game of rock paper scissors. If in Metro low sec people like to play paper then playing scissors is a reasonable counter strategy. But in general, your optimal strategy is going to be "random" and if you're trying to balance the game, balancing against those situations where people play sub-optimally will imbalance the game.
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Alfred AngloSaxon
Atomic Battle Penguins
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Posted - 2009.04.11 02:16:00 -
[1833]
so abp decides in this matter?
farjung, get back to eve ;p
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Childstar
Minmatar
Republic University
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Posted - 2009.04.11 09:27:00 -
[1834]
Originally by: Goumindong
Originally by: Liang Nuren
For example, for a long time, I flew in Metro lowsec and explosive damage is very common there. Goumindong flew down south in The Great War against BOB and insisted I was an idiot for fitting an explo hardener. I insisted he was an idiot for fitting a plate. We were both probably correct for our situations.
Actually i was saying that you cannot balance around people using more explosive damage than you should expect. If you know people are going to be flying more ships with explosive damage then fitting an explosive hardener can make sense. BUT balancing around that is foolish, since the advantage that you're gaining is from outsmarting your opponent and not anything inherent in the system.
I.E. it would be like a game of rock paper scissors. If in Metro low sec people like to play paper then playing scissors is a reasonable counter strategy. But in general, your optimal strategy is going to be "random" and if you're trying to balance the game, balancing against those situations where people play sub-optimally will imbalance the game.
And yet is a lot of posts you use the onmi tank modal to show how much more dmg blasters do vs lasers and the omni tank has:
1. Bloody awful explosive resists.
2. Very few BS can or actually do actually fit it.
Picking a form of tank that favors blasters, 1. that the mega cannot fit and the tank that the mega can fit is weak and has a massive explosive hole, 2. that the abaddon has better than 3. That the phoon ect does not fit 4. and that also leaves any other ship using it apart from the abaddon with a dirty great explosive hole is a poor choice for balancing.
If a optimal strategy is for a "random" and unbiased measurement the resistances should be set all equal to reflect each individuals ability (or inability in the megas case) to fit how they wish.
Getting spanked in public by your own alliance is embarresing |
Alfred AngloSaxon
Atomic Battle Penguins
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Posted - 2009.04.11 10:34:00 -
[1835]
Edited by: Alfred AngloSaxon on 11/04/2009 10:35:00
Edited by: Alfred AngloSaxon on 11/04/2009 10:34:32
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: Goumindong
Originally by: Liang Nuren
For example, for a long time, I flew in Metro lowsec and explosive damage is very common there. Goumindong flew down south in The Great War against BOB and insisted I was an idiot for fitting an explo hardener. I insisted he was an idiot for fitting a plate. We were both probably correct for our situations.
Actually i was saying that you cannot balance around people using more explosive damage than you should expect. If you know people are going to be flying more ships with explosive damage then fitting an explosive hardener can make sense. BUT balancing around that is foolish, since the advantage that you're gaining is from outsmarting your opponent and not anything inherent in the system.
I.E. it would be like a game of rock paper scissors. If in Metro low sec people like to play paper then playing scissors is a reasonable counter strategy. But in general, your optimal strategy is going to be "random" and if you're trying to balance the game, balancing against those situations where people play sub-optimally will imbalance the game.
And yet is a lot of posts you use the onmi tank modal to show how much more dmg blasters do vs lasers and the omni tank has:
1. Bloody awful explosive resists.
2. Very few BS can or actually do actually fit it.
Picking a form of tank that favors blasters, 1. that the mega cannot fit and the tank that the mega can fit is weak and has a massive explosive hole, 2. that the abaddon has better than 3. That the phoon ect does not fit 4. and that also leaves any other ship using it apart from the abaddon with a dirty great explosive hole is a poor choice for balancing.
If a optimal strategy is for a "random" and unbiased measurement the resistances should be set all equal to reflect each individuals ability (or inability in the megas case) to fit how they wish.
thought the abaddon was getting res bonuses ? isnt it like claiming that the rokh is a better shield tank than a mega aswell? so might be a poor choice when comparing.... i might be wrong tho
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Childstar
Minmatar
Republic University
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Posted - 2009.04.11 11:02:00 -
[1836]
Originally by: Alfred AngloSaxon
thought the abaddon was getting res bonuses ? isnt it like claiming that the rokh is a better shield tank than a mega aswell? so might be a poor choice when comparing.... i might be wrong tho
It does and i do not think its like comparing a shield tank to a armour tank tbh.
To me its about comparing available tier 1-3 BS and realistic abilities in a reasonable way.
On one side we have a ship with no real fitting issues, a amazing range and great damage within that range, along with having a natural resistance/tank buff that gives it the best tank of any BS in the game for the sort of pvp that is readily available to BS.
Its only down side if you can call it that is a cap issue if it needs to MWD a lot (and with its available range it hardly does).
But this is not really about the abaddon its about the problems with large blasters and the BS that use them.
The mega as a RR or std gang blaster ship lacks the ability to fit a even reasonable tank, the range it gets for its full and shouted about damage is at 4.5km so by any reasonable measure it is going to be doing a lot of burning/mwding and eating cap or getting reduced dmg.
Now consider how that relativly poor tank effects it when it is almost certainly going to be in the optimal of every hostile ship due to the range it is forced to operate in, at 15km or ever greater the abaddon can mitigate a lot of incoming damage from shorter range BS along with the added bonus of a much stronger tank while doing its full damage.
While the blaster mega has the choice to either sit back and hit with longer range lower damage ammo or burn into the optimal range of every hostile ship with its much weaker tank. Even switching to rails like a lot of RR/gangs do does not allow the mega to fit a good tank although it does solve the MWD/cap issues but again with the extra trade off that reduces dmg significantly.
I think for a ship that to do its full potential damage needs to operate at such close quarters and can mitigate 0 dmg due to range ect that things are a little backwards.
Getting spanked in public by your own alliance is embarresing |
DARTHxFREE
No Limit Productions
Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2009.04.11 12:26:00 -
[1837]
What noob and his 10 alts is bumping this fail thread, thiers noting wrong with blasters you just want an I-win gun.
/join Cheeze & Whine Club
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Childstar
Minmatar
Republic University
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Posted - 2009.04.11 13:10:00 -
[1838]
Originally by: DARTHxFREE
What noob and his 10 alts is bumping this fail thread, thiers noting wrong with blasters you just want an I-win gun.
Did you really need to go into so much detail in your analysis of the topic?...
Did you even bother to check what ppl are asking for in regards to changes?...
Getting spanked in public by your own alliance is embarresing |
Zolian
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Posted - 2009.04.11 13:24:00 -
[1839]
After careful analysis of this thread I have come to a conclusion.
The answer is "maybe".
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Enden Assulu
Caldari
Blood Money Inc.
Blood Money Cartel
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Posted - 2009.04.11 14:04:00 -
[1840]
Edited by: Enden Assulu on 11/04/2009 14:05:47
Originally by: Zolian
After careful analysis of this thread I have come to a conclusion.
The answer is "maybe".
I to can confirm maybe is the correct answer
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Goumindong
Amarr
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.04.11 17:16:00 -
[1841]
Originally by: Childstar
And yet is a lot of posts you use the onmi tank modal to show how much more dmg blasters do vs lasers and the omni tank has:
And yet nothing! Omni armor tanks are the optimally efficient tank. Therefore you balance around them. Tanks with hardeners are not optimally efficient therefore you do not balance around them
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Childstar
Minmatar
Republic University
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Posted - 2009.04.11 17:43:00 -
[1842]
Edited by: Childstar on 11/04/2009 17:44:59
Originally by: Goumindong
Originally by: Goumindong
Originally by: Liang Nuren
For example, for a long time, I flew in Metro lowsec and explosive damage is very common there. Goumindong flew down south in The Great War against BOB and insisted I was an idiot for fitting an explo hardener. I insisted he was an idiot for fitting a plate. We were both probably correct for our situations.
Actually i was saying that you cannot balance around people using more explosive damage than you should expect. If you know people are going to be flying more ships with explosive damage then fitting an explosive hardener can make sense. BUT balancing around that is foolish, since the advantage that you're gaining is from outsmarting your opponent and not anything inherent in the system.
I.E. it would be like a game of rock paper scissors. If in Metro low sec people like to play paper then playing scissors is a reasonable counter strategy. But in general, your optimal strategy is going to be "random" and if you're trying to balance the game, balancing against those situations where people play sub-optimally will imbalance the game.
And yet is a lot of posts you use the onmi tank modal to show how much more dmg blasters do vs lasers and the omni tank has:
1. Bloody awful explosive resists.
2. Very few BS can or actually do actually fit it.
Picking a form of tank that favors blasters, 1. that the mega cannot fit and the tank that the mega can fit is weak and has a massive explosive hole, 2. that the abaddon has better than 3. That the phoon ect does not fit 4. and that also leaves any other ship using it apart from the abaddon with a dirty great explosive hole is a poor choice for balancing.
If a optimal strategy is for a "random" and unbiased measurement the resistances should be set all equal to reflect each individuals ability (or inability in the megas case) to fit how they wish.
And yet nothing! Omni armor tanks are the optimally efficient tank. Therefore you balance around them. Tanks with hardeners are not optimally efficient therefore you do not balance around them
RUBBISH its the most efficient tank at making laser ships look worse than they are and blaster ships look better than they are because of the biased resistances it gives and the EXPLOSIVE HOLE you ignore.
The onmi tank you used is the LEAST used BS tank in EVE.
The mega and geddon have less cos they cannot fit it.
The abaddon has more cos of natural resist bonus.
The phoon does better with a plug and plate.
The hyperion is the only ship that can and would really fit it and that is the BS with a active tank bonus and supposed to be fitting local reppers not buffer tanks.
Getting spanked in public by your own alliance is embarresing |
Goumindong
Amarr
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.04.11 17:53:00 -
[1843]
Originally by: Childstar
The onmi tank you used is the LEAST used BS tank in EVE.
This is not true.
Quote:
The mega and geddon have less cos they cannot fit it.
What does this even mean? The Mega and Geddon always omni armor tank.
Quote:
The abaddon has more cos of natural resist bonus.
What does this even mean? The Abaddon also always omni armor tanks.
Quote:
The phoon does better with a plug and plate.
No, it does not. It does better with EANM's and plates. Its low base armor value makes this even more true.
Quote:
The hyperion is the only ship that can and would really fit it and that is the BS with a active tank bonus and supposed to be fitting local reppers not buffer tanks.
Which, in the small engagements its designed for, extends the advantages and disadvantages of the omni-armor tank that it is fitting.
|
Childstar
Minmatar
Republic University
|
Posted - 2009.04.11 18:09:00 -
[1844]
Edited by: Childstar on 11/04/2009 18:14:48
Originally by: Goumindong
What does this even mean? The Mega and Geddon always omni armor tank.
Post the RR neutron mega fit that uses the eanm/dcu fit used in the graphs.
Originally by: Goumindong
What does this even mean? The Abaddon also always omni armor tanks.
It has more resists and no explosive hole, while the omni tank used in the graphs does.
Originally by: Goumindong
I don't think you understand what omni-tank means. You see, it means fitting resistance modules that have the same bonus for all resistances. This keeps the base resistance profile of the underlying hit point type.
I unsderstand perfectly, you picked a tank to use for measuring DMG that blaster ships hit hard but cannot fit and are weaker, and laser ships hit weakly but can fit better.....
If you are going to use the "OMNI TANK" from the graphs as referance for measuring the DMG output of the differant systems you should at least find out if ships actually use the EXACT omni tank in question.
AND MOST DO NOT.
Originally by: Goumindong
We have, in this very thread(and others) covered the math that has shown that omni-tanking is more efficient than hardener tanking.
No you have not.
Originally by: Goumindong
Stop lying and saying it isn't used. Stop lying and saying plugging is better.
Im not lying you are manipulating the term to suit your perposes.
You are lying as per usual.
Getting spanked in public by your own alliance is embarresing |
Goumindong
Amarr
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.04.11 18:43:00 -
[1845]
Edited by: Goumindong on 11/04/2009 18:44:43
Originally by: Childstar
Post the RR neutron mega fit that uses the eanm/dcu fit used in the graphs.
THe RR neutron mega uses ANP's. The damage that we figure the Abaddon doing to it is using the ANP's. The Graphs that have been produced use both ANP's and EANM's. You can use c-type ANP's to get that value even closer to the EANM value...
For instance, if you look at the graphs produced by me, you will notice that we are using an average resistance profile for a battlecruiser, which is slightly weaker than an ANP tank on a battleship.(last i checked)
Quote:
It has more resists and no explosive hole, while the omni tank used in the graphs does.
First off: It has an explosive hole. It simply has less of one than the others, it gains a whopping 11.25% extra resistance over any other ship. Amarr ships have the least strong racial armor resist.
Second off: Yes, it indeed has more resists, if you want to look at comparative tanks, well we took your fit and did that, and your fit lost. If you want to look at absolute tanks, the extra resistances make lasers look even worse.
Quote:
If you are going to use the "OMNI TANK" from the graphs as referance for measuring the DMG output of the differant systems you should at least find out if ships actually use the EXACT omni tank in question.
Actually what I do is I explain what is happening, and then explain how different ships as targets will produce different results. You do not need to have all ships listed because that just clutters up your graph and makes it hard to understand.
If you're not smart enough to make these rational inferences then that is your problem and there is nothing i can do to fix that.
Quote:
You also try to say laser BS do more EM than thermal and try to include drone dmg in the EM %, when even the abad with 8 guns and just 3 drones does more thermal than EM.
Man what? If you're talking about the claim that at 30km an abaddon[over optimal+falloff for an abaddon w/ MF] does more em than thermal, then yea, Scorch is 91% EM damage and i am absolutely correct in that estimation.
Quote:
No you have not.
No, it really has been done. I don't have the time to trawl though these 60 pages to find the post(and your responses to it), but maybe in a bit i will.
|
Childstar
Minmatar
Republic University
|
Posted - 2009.04.11 19:09:00 -
[1846]
Edited by: Childstar on 11/04/2009 19:15:08
Originally by: Goumindong
First off: It has an explosive hole.
Wrong the abaddons explosive resist with just 1 eanm is almost exactly the same as the megas thermal and kinetic resist, with 2 it is higher.
Mega with 2 x anp = 48.5% ex.
Aba with 2 x eanm = 70.1% ex.
Aba with 1 x eanm = 61.7% ex.
Oh and the Mega with 2 x anp = 62.8% kinetic and thermal.
So if the abaddon has a explosive hole the mega has 3 holes pal.
Originally by: Goumindong
Second off: Yes, it indeed has more resists, if you want to look at comparative tanks, well we took your fit and did that, and your fit lost.
Wrong in a comparative system vs dmg type the abad was doing more DPS against the mega tank than the mega did againsty the abad tank with the dual eanm tank and with the single eanm blaster dmg was only slightly more in favor of blasters and these ammounts were done AT BLASTER OPTIMAL.
Along with the fact that in gang combat you must factor in ALL damage types hitting your tank NOT just those done by blasters and lasers, and that is another problem the abaddon does not have.
Originally by: Goumindong
Actually what I do is I explain what is happening, and then explain how different ships as targets will produce different results. You do not need to have all ships listed because that just clutters up your graph and makes it hard to understand.
If you're not smart enough to make these rational inferences then that is your problem and there is nothing i can do to fix that.
Rubbish, what you do is post the figures you think will show the results in the best light for you. The FACTS and figures i posted show the things your graphs deliberatly avoided.
Your problem with me is that im smart enough to see through you bullsh*t, manipulations and word games and your right their is nothing yopu can do to fix it, unless you count telling the WHOLE and TOTAL truth for a change...
Originally by: Goumindong
Man what? If you're talking about the claim that at 30km an abaddon[over optimal+falloff for an abaddon w/ MF] does more em than thermal, then yea, Scorch is 91% EM damage and i am absolutely correct in that estimation.
I do not remember talking about a range of 30km?, in fact most of the figures in this thread have been HIGHLY BIASED in favor of blasters (because its a blaster thread) and been worked out in faction AM optimal so ALL laser figures were worked out with faction MF.
And faction MF is 58% EM 42% THERMAL and even with 3 HS fitted the abaddon does 564.72thermal 531.28em (3x gaurde T2).
Getting spanked in public by your own alliance is embarresing |
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.04.11 19:31:00 -
[1847]
Originally by: Childstar
Logical arguments have been done, figures and stats have been posted and compared and realistic available scenarios on TQ have been discussed.
Unfortunatly when they showed what Childstar did not want them to show his arguments became based on pimped t2 fits, faction ships and a lot of ranting about experiance and pvp he has never had or done.
Then when that did not work out so well we have now a page or so full of his delusions about solo BS pvp being fully and readily available on TQ and the effectivness of the blaster mega as a solo ship because of its tracking. Along with claims that the blaster mega either does not need to mwd or if it does has no cap issues when doing so.....
If you look at the progression through the thread it goes.....
Childstar makes a absurd claim, claim gets disproved, Childstar goes on a emo rant, Childstar changes his mind and or makes up another absurd claim. This progression repeats itself on several subjects throughout the thread from fitting to tanks to relative DPS to RR effectivness ect ect.
As i said we just covered cap and tracking and solo work for BS (although he NOW claims that has been his point all along) and he has just about got past the emo rant stage.....i hope.
I just had to fix something here so it got more accurate.
Anyways, if you want the best CLOSE range BS that can fit one RR without having to take away one gun so you get a horrible DPS, then the best choice is the Blaster Mega.
If you want the best BS that can fit one RR and be pretty good at med range, then the Abaddon is a good choice.
Now choose what you want to be best at.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Karentaki
Gallente
Oberon Incorporated
Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.04.11 19:34:00 -
[1848]
Originally by: Goumindong
I don't think you understand what omni-tank means. You see, it means fitting resistance modules that have the same bonus for all resistances. This keeps the base resistance profile of the underlying hit point type.
If you use ANP's instead of EANM's your resistances go down slightly, if you use faction modules instead of tech 2, they go up. In all instances you're omni-tanking. Typically when we look at omni-tanks we look at a resistance profile of a hypothetical ship with no racial resistance bonuses and a middle ground of armor/structure/shield. This keeps the values within a reasonable spread. Other times(for instance when i showed how much of a short range advantage the mega has over the Abaddon) we will look at the exact tanks being fit. In the parenthetical example, this was 2 ANP's 2 plates and a DCII for the mega and 2 eanm's, 1 DC and 1 plate for the Abaddon[iirc, it could have been the 2 plate, 1 eanm, 1 dc fit you suggested, but i don't think it was]
We have, in this very thread(and others) covered the math that has shown that omni-tanking is more efficient than hardener tanking.
Stop lying and saying it isn't used. Stop lying and saying plugging is better.
I'm sorry, but you are wrong. Here's some maths to prove it (probably not rigorous but meh):
Each hardener has a proportionally greater effect the lower the resistance it is boosting is:
new_resist = current_resist+(100-current_resist)*resist_modifier
Now, this means that on average you will get a larger resistance boost from boosting a single low resistance, than from using an EANM to boost all resists. Here's an example:
+--------------+---------------+--------------------+
| Base resists | 40% explosive | 10% to each resist |
+-----------+--------------+---------------+--------------------+
| EXPLOSIVE | 10% | 46% | 19% |
| THERMAL | 30% | 30% | 37% |
| KINETIC | 30% | 30% | 37% |
| EM | 50% | 50% | 55% |
+-----------+--------------+---------------+--------------------+
| AVERAGE | 30% | 39% | 37% |
+-----------+--------------+---------------+--------------------+
| OMNI DMG | 70% | 61% | 63% |
+-----------+--------------+---------------+--------------------+
As you can see the 'hole plugging' works better than the omni-tank.
I cba doing the maths for adding more modules, but trust me. Hole plugging is better than omni tanking assuming omni-dps.
Quote:
EVE is like a sandbox with landmines. Deal with it.
|
Childstar
Minmatar
Republic University
|
Posted - 2009.04.11 19:39:00 -
[1849]
Originally by: NightmareX
Anyways, if you want the best CLOSE range BS that can fit one RR without having to take away one gun so you get a horrible DPS, then the best choice is the Blaster Mega.
Horrible DPS?...
The abaddon gets more DPS with 7 guns than the mega does with 7 after comparative resists and the abad also has:
1. A better tank.
2. 300% more range with MF and 1000% more range with scorch.
3. Because of that ability to hit VERY hard at great range it gets a reducion in incoming DMG from shorter range systems and does not need to MWD towards each and EVERY target.
Getting spanked in public by your own alliance is embarresing |
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.04.11 19:44:00 -
[1850]
Edited by: NightmareX on 11/04/2009 19:44:32
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: NightmareX
Anyways, if you want the best CLOSE range BS that can fit one RR without having to take away one gun so you get a horrible DPS, then the best choice is the Blaster Mega.
Horrible DPS?...
The abaddon gets more DPS with 7 guns than the mega does with 7 after comparative resists and the abad also has:
1. A better tank.
2. 300% more range with MF and 1000% more range with scorch.
3. Because of that ability to hit VERY hard at great range it gets a reducion in incoming DMG from shorter range systems and does not need to MWD towards each and EVERY target.
Are you still forgetting the DPS math i did?.
I clearly showed you there that 7x Neutrons with CN Antimatter and 3x damage mods and the rest of the fit that after the resists and before the damage mod on the guns was taken into the picture the Neutrons om the Mega was already doing a little more DPS than the Abaddon with 7 guns and one RR.
After the Gun damage mods was calculated in, the Neutron Mega was doing 24% more DPS than the Abaddon.
Isn't that more DPS than the Abaddon?.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
|
|
Childstar
Minmatar
Republic University
|
Posted - 2009.04.11 19:49:00 -
[1851]
Edited by: Childstar on 11/04/2009 19:54:43
Originally by: Childstar
The abaddon gets more DPS with 7 guns than the mega does with 7 after comparative resists and the abad also has:
1. A better tank.
2. 300% more range with MF and 1000% more range with scorch.
3. Because of that ability to hit VERY hard at great range it gets a reducion in incoming DMG from shorter range systems and does not need to MWD towards each and EVERY target.
Originally by: NightmareX
Are you still forgetting the DPS math i did?.
I clearly showed you there that 7x Neutrons with CN Antimatter and 3x damage mods and the rest of the fit that after the resists and before the damage mod on the guns was taken into the picture the Neutrons om the Mega was already doing a little more DPS than the Abaddon with 7 guns and one RR.
After the Gun damage mods was calculated in, the Neutron Mega was doing 24% more DPS than the Abaddon.
Isn't that more DPS than the Abaddon?.
1. That was raw damage not AFTER resists.
2. Do you mean the NAVY MEGA and the triple faction mods?....
3. That tank on a normal mega would be bloody awful with 3 dmg mods.
...i ignored it as being irrelavant to a discussion about regularly used and available fits on TQ..
Originally by: NightmareX
1. Who cares, a Megathron is a ship that just moves to the targets and face **** everyone that are in their range and warps out. It's hit and run.
This is a new line you are ranting about hit and run BS lol....., how do your 4.5km blaster megas warp out with 24km points on them?....
Originally by: NightmareX
2. Does Blaster Mega pilots cares about that oh Lasers can hit are more longer range?. No they care about melting your face when they get to you.
With 3 mag stabs it will be the megas that get melyed due to bloody useless tanks...
Getting spanked in public by your own alliance is embarresing |
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.04.11 19:54:00 -
[1852]
Edited by: NightmareX on 11/04/2009 19:59:58
Originally by: Childstar
Edited by: Childstar on 11/04/2009 19:52:55
The abaddon gets more DPS with 7 guns than the mega does with 7 after comparative resists and the abad also has:
1. A better tank.
2. 300% more range with MF and 1000% more range with scorch.
3. Because of that ability to hit VERY hard at great range it gets a reducion in incoming DMG from shorter range systems and does not need to MWD towards each and EVERY target.
Originally by: NightmareX
Are you still forgetting the DPS math i did?.
I clearly showed you there that 7x Neutrons with CN Antimatter and 3x damage mods and the rest of the fit that after the resists and before the damage mod on the guns was taken into the picture the Neutrons om the Mega was already doing a little more DPS than the Abaddon with 7 guns and one RR.
After the Gun damage mods was calculated in, the Neutron Mega was doing 24% more DPS than the Abaddon.
Isn't that more DPS than the Abaddon?.
1. That was raw damage not AFTER resists.
2. Do you mean the NAVY MEGA and the triple faction mods?....
3. That tank on a normal mega would be bloody awful with 3 dmg mods.
...i ignored it as being irrelavant to a discussion about regularly used and available fits on TQ..
Originally by: NightmareX
1. Who cares, a Megathron is a ship that just moves to the targets and face **** everyone that are in their range and warps out. It's hit and run.
This is a new line you are ranting about, how do your megas warp out with 24km points on them?....
Originally by: NightmareX
2. Does Blaster Mega pilots cares about that oh Lasers can hit are more longer range?. No they care about melting your face when they get to you.
With 3 mag stabs it will be the megas that get melyed due to bloody useless tanks...
I think you need to learn to read. It was after the resist.
And yes, it was with the tripple Coreli ANP setup. But do i care?. Nope. As long i get a better ship, then i don't care.
READ THIS AND SHUT THE HELL UP.
If you can't remember any of the **** your spamming this topic with, then just leave this topic.
I can just go to number 3. Do you know why it would be awful?, yes it's because your donkey ass setup sucks and stinks. No one would ever use 3x damage mods on a Megathron ever today.
But your Abaddon on the other hand, need 3x damage mods to be able to get more near on how much DPS the Neutron Mega are doing with 2x damage mods.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Goumindong
Amarr
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.04.11 19:57:00 -
[1853]
Originally by: Karentaki
I'm sorry, but you are wrong. Here's some maths to prove it (probably not rigorous but meh):
You are correct in that it is not rigorous. And since its not rigorous it proves nothing
Quote:
Each hardener has a proportionally greater effect the lower the resistance it is boosting is:
This is not true. All hardeners have a proportionally similar effect no matter the resistance they are boosting.
Your evaluation fails in three areas.
1. It gets the numbers wrong. The resistances are not 40% and 10%, but 55% and 25%.
2. Effective hit points is what matters, and singular resistance modules can be substituted for plates and damage mods which will have a proportionately greater effect.
The only time you get close to making the case for specific hardeners is on BS sized shield tanks since their tanking modules do not compete with their damage mods and since extenders on the BS level are less strong compared to plates.
The fact that you are wrong can also be proven quite easily. Load up EFT and get a blank battleship hull. Stick a single Explosive hardener on it. Record the EHP. EHP/DPS is how long it takes to kill you. Since DPS will be constant in our example we can record the relative differences of each module. Higher is better.
Mega: 1 Exp Hard II: 35,143 OMNI EHP (overloaded 35,850)
Mega: 1 EANM II: 36,481 OMNI EHP
Mega: 1 ANP II: 35,304 OMNI EHP
Mega: 1 Plate: 40,160 OMNI EHP
As you can see, the EANM strictly beats the EXP hardener in all situations for the same CPU use. An ANP beats it with 0 CPU use unless you're overloading.(and there is no reason to fit an ANP if you can fit an EANM instead, which you can do if you're fitting an explosive hardener there ;)
This of course is all very obvious. The question then becomes not "does a single module win" its "what happens when you get stacking penalties" and the answer is always, invariably "unless you know what damage type the other guy is going to be doing, you want to omni tank"
|
Childstar
Minmatar
Republic University
|
Posted - 2009.04.11 19:59:00 -
[1854]
Edited by: Childstar on 11/04/2009 20:02:05
Originally by: NightmareX
Pointless rant about a faction fitted navy mega
Fixed and...
DID YOU READ THIS...
..i ignored it cos it was about a FACTION BS WITH FACTION MODS and as so it is irrelavant to a discussion about regularly used and available fits on TQ..
Now go away unless you have a standard mega with a non faction fit to discuss.
Getting spanked in public by your own alliance is embarresing |
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.04.11 20:02:00 -
[1855]
Edited by: NightmareX on 11/04/2009 20:06:24
Originally by: Childstar
Edited by: Childstar on 11/04/2009 20:02:05
Originally by: NightmareX
Pointless rant about a faction fitted navy mega
Fixed and...
DID YOU READ THIS...
..i ignored it cos it was about a FACTION BS WITH FACTION MODS and as so it is irrelavant to a discussion about regularly used and available fits on TQ..
Now go away unless you have a standard mega with a non faction fit to discuss.
Originally by: Childstar
3. Because of that ability to hit VERY hard at great range it gets a reducion in incoming DMG from shorter range systems and does not need to MWD towards each and EVERY target.
I can just go to number 3. Do you know why it would be awful?, yes it's because your donkey ass setup sucks and stinks. No one would ever use 3x damage mods on a Megathron ever today.
But your Abaddon on the other hand, need 3x damage mods to be able to get more near on how much DPS the Neutron Mega are doing with 2x damage mods.
The Navy Mega and the normal Mega have the exact same DPS and resists noob.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Goumindong
Amarr
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.04.11 20:08:00 -
[1856]
Edited by: Goumindong on 11/04/2009 20:16:25
Originally by: Childstar
So if the abaddon has a explosive hole the mega has 3 holes pal.
Yes, we have established that the Abaddon has a higher resistance profile than the Megahtron. What we have not established is why that matters.
Answer: It doesn't.
You see a "hole" is a portion of EHP or repping that is significantly lower than the others. Abaddon's have a slightly smaller hole, but they pay for it in a slightly lower resistance to other things.(bonuses which are typically higher too)
Quote:
Wrong in a comparative system vs dmg type the abad was doing more DPS against the mega tank than the mega did againsty the abad tank with the dual eanm tank and with the single eanm blaster dmg was only slightly more in favor of blasters and these ammounts were done AT BLASTER OPTIMAL.
Wrong; In a comparative system vs damage type(with an 8 gun abaddon), the abaddon was doing more DPS against the megas armor than the Mega was doing against the Abaddon's armor.
But the Abaddon had less armor in that fit and neither had remote repair units. Which means that the resistances was not important, what was important was the EHP, which you failed to mention because it would break your inferiority complex.(DPS/EHP difference favors the Abaddon by 5%, is even with a single c-type ANP and with 2 or an EANM the Mega is ahead)[edited Note: it needs to be noted that a non-rr mega can fit an EANM and ANP easily. The dual ANP is necessary to fit LRARs)
Quote:
Along with the fact that in gang combat you must factor in ALL damage types hitting your tank NOT just those done by blasters and lasers, and that is another problem the abaddon does not have.
No, that is figured. As i have explained earlier, this is just one aspect of a comparative study. Just as you have to factor in all damage types that the opponents have, you also have to factor in the tanks that those ships have(would we rather shoot them first, taking them out of the game?). The situation is not nearly as opaque as you claim and the homogeneous comparison is still valuable as much as you would like to discount the findings.
Quote:
The FACTS and figures i posted show the things your graphs deliberatly avoided.
No, they didn't. You're posting flawed evaluations. They're flawed for known reasons which have been explained.
Quote:
I do not remember talking about a range of 30km?, in fact most of the figures in this thread have been HIGHLY BIASED in favor of blasters (because its a blaster thread) and been worked out in faction AM optimal so ALL laser figures were worked out with faction MF.
And faction MF is 58% EM 42% THERMAL and even with 3 HS fitted the abaddon does 564.72thermal 531.28em (3x gaurde T2).
I was not disputing that a 3 HS abaddon does more thermal than EM(if only very slightly). I am not sure where I am disputing that. What i am wondering is where this mythical claim of mine is. I thought you were referring to this post but if you're not then I am not sure what you're referring to.
|
Childstar
Minmatar
Republic University
|
Posted - 2009.04.11 20:12:00 -
[1857]
Originally by: NightmareX
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: NightmareX
Pointless rant about a faction fitted navy mega
Fixed and...
DID YOU READ THIS...
..i ignored it cos it was about a FACTION BS WITH FACTION MODS and as so it is irrelavant to a discussion about regularly used and available fits on TQ..
Now go away unless you have a standard mega with a non faction fit to discuss.
Originally by: Childstar
3. That tank on a normal mega would be bloody awful with 3 dmg mods.
I can just go to number 3. Do you know why it would be awful?, yes it's because your donkey ass setup sucks and stinks. No one would ever use 3x damage mods on a Megathron ever today.
Its YOUR donkey ass setup YOU TOTAL CLOWN, YOU BLOODY WELL POSTED IT.
Originally by: Childstar
The Navy Mega and the normal Mega have the exact same DPS and resists noob.
Do they really?, now the same dps i agree with but the same resists?...after fitting?...with the navy mega having 8 lows and using 3 anps?...are you sure?...
Getting spanked in public by your own alliance is embarresing |
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.04.11 20:18:00 -
[1858]
Edited by: NightmareX on 11/04/2009 20:26:27
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: NightmareX
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: NightmareX
Pointless rant about a faction fitted navy mega
Fixed and...
DID YOU READ THIS...
..i ignored it cos it was about a FACTION BS WITH FACTION MODS and as so it is irrelavant to a discussion about regularly used and available fits on TQ..
Now go away unless you have a standard mega with a non faction fit to discuss.
Originally by: Childstar
3. That tank on a normal mega would be bloody awful with 3 dmg mods.
I can just go to number 3. Do you know why it would be awful?, yes it's because your donkey ass setup sucks and stinks. No one would ever use 3x damage mods on a Megathron ever today.
Its YOUR donkey ass setup YOU TOTAL CLOWN, YOU BLOODY WELL POSTED IT.
Originally by: Childstar
The Navy Mega and the normal Mega have the exact same DPS and resists noob.
Do they really?, now the same dps i agree with but the same resists?...after fitting?...with the navy mega having 8 lows and using 3 anps?...are you sure?...
1. It's my donkey setup because your donkey noob ass couldn't post anything else than the donkey 3x damage mods setup on your Abaddon.
2. You took me here for taking the final resists after modules as the same, while i said that the ships it self has the same resists before any modules.
Look, if you really think i would have to use 3x damage mods on my Blaster Mega setup to be better than the Abaddon, then your stupid.
Just to say what's better with the Mega over the Abaddon.
1. The Neutron Mega have much more DPS than the Pulse Abaddon.
2. The Neutron Mega is much much more cap stable than the Abaddon with only using the guns. And because the Abaddon by ONLY using guns after 43 secs have used 2400 cap while the Blaster Mega use 955.5 cap ONLY by the guns after 43 secs.
And that means, within those 43 seconds, the Mega can shoot all the time for 43 secs and MWD for 2 cycles, do RR 2 times and still have used lesser cap than the Abaddon use only by shooting after 43 secs.
3. The Megathron is faster than the Abaddon.
4. The Megathron is 50-55 mill isk cheaper than the Abaddon.
5. The Neutron Mega have the best tracking off all of the normal BS'es.
6. Mega can fit one RR without having to take away one gun just to be able to fit one RR. So you don't lose any DPS by fitting one RR.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Childstar
Minmatar
Republic University
|
Posted - 2009.04.11 20:24:00 -
[1859]
Originally by: Goumindong
Originally by: Childstar
So if the abaddon has a explosive hole the mega has 3 holes pal.
Abaddon's have a slightly smaller hole, but they pay for it in a slightly lower resistance to other things.(bonuses which are typically higher too)
Bullsh*t.
2 x anp mega 71.4em, 62.8th, 62.8ki, 48.5ex.
1 x eanm aba 76.1em, 68.9th, 64.1ki, 61.7ex.
All the abaddons resists are HIGHER and the fit has MORE armour and EHP.
If you want to compare tanks then do so with each ships tank being hit by a equal ammount of EACH AND EVERY dmg type. Because in a true gang fight you will be getting hit by them all, although a higher % of thermal due to drones.
Getting spanked in public by your own alliance is embarresing |
Childstar
Minmatar
Republic University
|
Posted - 2009.04.11 20:28:00 -
[1860]
Originally by: NightmareX
1. It's my donkey setup because your donkey noob ass couldn't post anything else than the donkey 3x damage mods setup on your Abaddon.
If its YOUR donkey setup do not call it mine, and i posted the abaddon fit that was best for the job if the mega has fitting issues that makes it such then this thread has done its job and you crying about it and posting stupid fits is just SAD and pathetic.
The biggest noob in this thread is YOU as you did not even know how to fit a blaster ship before you started trolling here and you have still NEVER flown one...
Getting spanked in public by your own alliance is embarresing |
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.04.11 20:30:00 -
[1861]
Edited by: NightmareX on 11/04/2009 20:35:23
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: NightmareX
1. It's my donkey setup because your donkey noob ass couldn't post anything else than the donkey 3x damage mods setup on your Abaddon.
If its YOUR donkey setup do not call it mine, and i posted the abaddon fit that was best for the job if the mega has fitting issues that makes it such then this thread has done its job and you crying about it and posting stupid fits is just SAD and pathetic.
The biggest noob in this thread is YOU as you did not even know how to fit a blaster ship before you started trolling here and you have still NEVER flown one...
Do you know why i used it?. It's because you couldn't use anything else than your fail 3x damage mods setup. That's the reason.
If you had used 2x damage mods, i would do that to.
And do you really know what will happen if i take away one damage mod on my Navy Mega setup and put in either one EANM t2, or another 1600mm RTP?. LOL i will still do more DPS than you and still have a fuk ton more EHP than you.
Anyways, there is a new EFT version out now, and it shows that the Abaddon and the Megathron and the Navy Mega have a little lower EHP.
Gonna check that out.
And i'm going to post a math over how much better the Navy Mega is with 2x damage mods than the Abaddon.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Childstar
Minmatar
Republic University
|
Posted - 2009.04.11 20:35:00 -
[1862]
Originally by: NightmareX
1. The Neutron Mega have much more DPS than the Pulse Abaddon.
Lies it has less after resists even with 3 dmg mods and fitting 3 = awful tank.
Originally by: NightmareX
2. The Neutron Mega is much much more cap stable than the Abaddon.
Wrong the mega needs to MWD a lot in gang combat, the only place the mega has a cap advantage is station camping carebears in empire and even then the abaddon has plenty its just less than the megas.
Originally by: NightmareX
3. The Megathron is faster than the Abaddon.
18ms faster LOL...
Originally by: NightmareX
4. The Megathron is 50-55 mill isk cheaper than the Abaddon.
Insignificant when you factor in insurance.
Originally by: NightmareX
5. The Neutron Mega have the best tracking off all of the normal BS'es.
Unimportant in gang combat due to multiple webs.
Originally by: NightmareX
6. Mega can fit one RR without having to take away one gun just to be able to fit one RR. So you don't lose any DPS by fitting one RR.
The mega starts with 7 guns the abaddon starts with 8 so with RR fitted they both have 7.
Getting spanked in public by your own alliance is embarresing |
Childstar
Minmatar
Republic University
|
Posted - 2009.04.11 20:38:00 -
[1863]
Edited by: Childstar on 11/04/2009 20:39:44
Originally by: NightmareX
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: NightmareX
1. It's my donkey setup because your donkey noob ass couldn't post anything else than the donkey 3x damage mods setup on your Abaddon.
If its YOUR donkey setup do not call it mine, and i posted the abaddon fit that was best for the job if the mega has fitting issues that makes it such then this thread has done its job and you crying about it and posting stupid fits is just SAD and pathetic.
The biggest noob in this thread is YOU as you did not even know how to fit a blaster ship before you started trolling here and you have still NEVER flown one...
Do you know why i used it?. It's because you couldn't use anything else than your fail 3x damage mods setup. That's the reason.
If you had used 2x damage mods, i would do that to.
That only proves you a total and childish idiot, to post a stupid and worthless fit instead of a useful one because of one stat and fit another race can easily fit without gimping its ship.
Originally by: NightmareX
And do you really know what will happen if i take away one damage mod on my Navy Mega setup and put in either one EANM t2, or another 1600mm RTP?. LOL i will still do more DPS than you and still have a fuk ton more EHP than you.
Did you learn nothing from the above comment about stupid fits or ships in this thread?...WTF IS WRONG WITH YOU?.
You will still have a pointless and worthless ship/fit for this thread cos you are STILL using a faction ship instead of a standard one.
Getting spanked in public by your own alliance is embarresing |
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.04.11 20:41:00 -
[1864]
Edited by: NightmareX on 11/04/2009 20:45:27
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: NightmareX
1. The Neutron Mega have much more DPS than the Pulse Abaddon.
Lies it has less after resists even with 3 dmg mods and fitting 3 = awful tank.
Originally by: NightmareX
2. The Neutron Mega is much much more cap stable than the Abaddon.
Wrong the mega needs to MWD a lot in gang combat, the only place the mega has a cap advantage is station camping carebears in empire and even then the abaddon has plenty its just less than the megas.
Originally by: NightmareX
3. The Megathron is faster than the Abaddon.
18ms faster LOL...
Originally by: NightmareX
4. The Megathron is 50-55 mill isk cheaper than the Abaddon.
Insignificant when you factor in insurance.
Originally by: NightmareX
5. The Neutron Mega have the best tracking off all of the normal BS'es.
Unimportant in gang combat due to multiple webs.
Originally by: NightmareX
6. Mega can fit one RR without having to take away one gun just to be able to fit one RR. So you don't lose any DPS by fitting one RR.
The mega starts with 7 guns the abaddon starts with 8 so with RR fitted they both have 7.
1. It have, if you don't believe it, then show me the math, or STFU.
2. Yeah it need to MWD somethimes, but did you forget to read what i wrote under that line?. Yes you did forget it or just ignored it totally. Read it and STFU.
3. I'm talking about when the MWD is on. It's way more than 18 MS faster than the Abaddon when both use MWD.
4. You still have to pay more for the insurance than i have to do on the Megathron.
5. It still have the best tracking of all large guns. So it's better for more solo / very small scale PVP works. Abaddon would die horribly to a smart Hurricane pilot. The Megathron would at least have the tracking to hit him and kill him.
6. Yeah, and this was the point i was after?. I told that YOU had to OFFER ONE GUN on your Abaddon to be able to fit one RR. The Megathron don't have to. Learn to read.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.04.11 20:45:00 -
[1865]
Originally by: Childstar
Edited by: Childstar on 11/04/2009 20:39:44
Originally by: NightmareX
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: NightmareX
1. It's my donkey setup because your donkey noob ass couldn't post anything else than the donkey 3x damage mods setup on your Abaddon.
If its YOUR donkey setup do not call it mine, and i posted the abaddon fit that was best for the job if the mega has fitting issues that makes it such then this thread has done its job and you crying about it and posting stupid fits is just SAD and pathetic.
The biggest noob in this thread is YOU as you did not even know how to fit a blaster ship before you started trolling here and you have still NEVER flown one...
Do you know why i used it?. It's because you couldn't use anything else than your fail 3x damage mods setup. That's the reason.
If you had used 2x damage mods, i would do that to.
That only proves you a total and childish idiot, to post a stupid and worthless fit instead of a useful one because of one stat and fit another race can easily fit without gimping its ship.
Originally by: NightmareX
And do you really know what will happen if i take away one damage mod on my Navy Mega setup and put in either one EANM t2, or another 1600mm RTP?. LOL i will still do more DPS than you and still have a fuk ton more EHP than you.
Did you learn nothing from the above comment about stupid fits or ships in this thread?...WTF IS WRONG WITH YOU?.
You will still have a pointless and worthless ship/fit for this thread cos you are STILL using a faction ship instead of a standard one.
1. OK, be prepeared to see my stats and all with the 2x damage mods Navy Mega i'm setting up in the new EFT soonÖ. I will so lol at you when you see how much better the Navy Mega is over the Abaddon. It just adds more to the value of the Navy Mega to the isk you have to pay for the Navy Mega.
2. How many times do i have to tell you this. I don't care if it's a faction ship or not. If i want the B E S T RR, DPS and EHP combined BS, then i will buy the Navy Mega.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Childstar
Minmatar
Republic University
|
Posted - 2009.04.11 20:54:00 -
[1866]
Originally by: NightmareX
1. OK, be prepeared to see my stats and all with the 2x damage mods Navy Mega i'm setting up in the new EFT soonÖ. I will so lol at you when you see how much better the Navy Mega is over the Abaddon. It just adds more to the value of the Navy Mega to the isk you have to pay for the Navy Mega.
The only stats i am interested in seeing are those on the standard mega, do not waste your time posting stupid navy mega fits as they are pointless.
Originally by: NightmareX
2. How many times do i have to tell you this. I don't care if it's a faction ship or not. If i want the B E S T RR, DPS and EHP combined BS, then i will buy the Navy Mega.
This is a thread about fixing blasters and the standard mega/hyperion as they are the ships 99% of the players in eve will be flying, posrts from a sissitard about ships he has never and will never fly are worthless.
Originally by: NightmareX
I'm not talking about the best normal tier 1, 2 and 3 RR, DPS and EHP battleships. I want the best RR, DPS and EHP battleship in the whole EVE.
Then sod off and start a thread about it as this is about normal BS not faction fits or faction ships.
Getting spanked in public by your own alliance is embarresing |
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.04.11 20:59:00 -
[1867]
Edited by: NightmareX on 11/04/2009 21:00:20
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: NightmareX
1. OK, be prepeared to see my stats and all with the 2x damage mods Navy Mega i'm setting up in the new EFT soonÖ. I will so lol at you when you see how much better the Navy Mega is over the Abaddon. It just adds more to the value of the Navy Mega to the isk you have to pay for the Navy Mega.
The only stats i am interested in seeing are those on the standard mega, do not waste your time posting stupid navy mega fits as they are pointless.
Originally by: NightmareX
2. How many times do i have to tell you this. I don't care if it's a faction ship or not. If i want the B E S T RR, DPS and EHP combined BS, then i will buy the Navy Mega.
This is a thread about fixing blasters and the standard mega/hyperion as they are the ships 99% of the players in eve will be flying, posrts from a sissitard about ships he has never and will never fly are worthless.
Originally by: NightmareX
I'm not talking about the best normal tier 1, 2 and 3 RR, DPS and EHP battleships. I want the best RR, DPS and EHP battleship in the whole EVE.
Then sod off and start a thread about it as this is about normal BS not faction fits or faction ships.
1. The Navy mega are still with BLASTERS, that are what this topic is about. Read the subject text maybe?.
2. Oh look at the tears when you saw that i did say how it is.
3. This is a topic about Blasters, not only about Mega and Hyperion with Blasters.
4. Read my point number 1.
EDIT: The new EFT v2.10 is having different EHP's and DPS values now.
So the stats will not get like the EFT you have Child, as long you haven't updated it your self.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Childstar
Minmatar
Republic University
|
Posted - 2009.04.11 21:01:00 -
[1868]
Originally by: NightmareX
1. It have, if you don't believe it, then show me the math, or STFU.
Faction ship stats are worthless, you STFU about them and your stupid useless fits.
Originally by: NightmareX
2. Yeah it need to MWD somethimes, but did you forget to read what i wrote under that line?. Yes you did forget it or just ignored it totally. Read it and STFU.
The only time a abaddon needs to mwd is to burn back to a gate maybe as 45km of range is plenty, the mega needs to a lot.
YOU STFU.
Originally by: NightmareX
5. It still have the best tracking of all large guns. So it's better for more solo / very small scale PVP works. Abaddon would die horribly to a smart Hurricane pilot. The Megathron would at least have the tracking to hit him and kill him.
1. Solo BS work is dead.
2. Small gang pvp has plenty of webs.
3. The cane pilot would have multiple webs on him and still die, and if he tried to burn away the abad has the range to kill him while the mega woulkd need to mwd.
Originally by: NightmareX
Yeah, and this was the point i was after?. I told that YOU had to OFFER ONE GUN on your Abaddon to be able to fit one RR. The Megathron don't have to. Learn to read.
So what?, 7 guns each and a RR is 7 guns each and a RR.
Getting spanked in public by your own alliance is embarresing |
Childstar
Minmatar
Republic University
|
Posted - 2009.04.11 21:04:00 -
[1869]
Edited by: Childstar on 11/04/2009 21:05:00
Originally by: NightmareX
1. The Navy mega are still with BLASTERS, that are what this topic is about. Read the subject text maybe?.
2. Oh look at the tears when you saw that i did say how it is.
3. This is a topic about Blasters, not only about Mega and Hyperion with Blasters.
4. Read my point number 1.
Faction fits and ships will be treated with the "LOLS SAD LOSER NOOB FACTION PIMPING" respect they deserve for a thread about blasters and the regular and standardly fitted ships they go on.
Unless you can show that the NAVY MEGA is more regularly used than the standard mega.
Getting spanked in public by your own alliance is embarresing |
Goumindong
Amarr
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.04.11 21:10:00 -
[1870]
Edited by: Goumindong on 11/04/2009 21:11:05
Originally by: Childstar
All the abaddons resists are HIGHER and the fit has MORE armour and EHP.
If you want to compare tanks then do so with each ships tank being hit by a equal ammount of EACH AND EVERY dmg type. Because in a true gang fight you will be getting hit by them all, although a higher % of thermal due to drones.
I am sorry, i should have been explicit with you.
Relative values. The Abaddon gets 11.25% extra on its explosive, the Mega gets 14% extra on its kinetic.
Your 3 HS abaddon [1 EANM, 2 plates] does have more armor and slightly better resists, but not enough that it makes up for the DPS of the mega, which was the question before you tried to deflect it(again)
edit: But since that seems to be your only complaint i guess you will be leaving the matter settled at "they both have purpose" then?
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.04.11 21:16:00 -
[1871]
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: NightmareX
1. It have, if you don't believe it, then show me the math, or STFU.
Faction ship stats are worthless, you STFU about them and your stupid useless fits.
Originally by: NightmareX
2. Yeah it need to MWD somethimes, but did you forget to read what i wrote under that line?. Yes you did forget it or just ignored it totally. Read it and STFU.
The only time a abaddon needs to mwd is to burn back to a gate maybe as 45km of range is plenty, the mega needs to a lot.
YOU STFU.
Originally by: NightmareX
5. It still have the best tracking of all large guns. So it's better for more solo / very small scale PVP works. Abaddon would die horribly to a smart Hurricane pilot. The Megathron would at least have the tracking to hit him and kill him.
1. Solo BS work is dead.
2. Small gang pvp has plenty of webs.
3. The cane pilot would have multiple webs on him and still die, and if he tried to burn away the abad has the range to kill him while the mega woulkd need to mwd.
Originally by: NightmareX
Yeah, and this was the point i was after?. I told that YOU had to OFFER ONE GUN on your Abaddon to be able to fit one RR. The Megathron don't have to. Learn to read.
So what?, 7 guns each and a RR is 7 guns each and a RR.
1. Look, your to scared to just admit it that the Navy Mega pwns the Abaddon in EHP, DPS and tracking and cap stability.
2. MWDing 30 secs out of 43 sec is alot. And still the Neutron Mega have the same cap usage as the Abaddon that ONLY shoot after 43 secs.
3.
a) Solo BS is dead for those who are uber lazy to not find where you can get that.
b) Plenty of webs?, it depends on how many you are in this very small scale PVP gang. And on how many you are going to fight.
c) Are you saying the Abaddon would have double webs on it's ship if a Hurricane catch one Abaddon that jumps in 15km from the gate alone?. Remember, it's not always you have a gang with you all the time when you are moving ships etc etc. The Hurricane would ass **** the Abaddon if the Hurricane had stayed in a 500m orbit at max normal speed. The Hurricane doesn't have to MWD or move away from the Abaddon if he's staying very close to the Abaddon and orbits it at 500m.
4. Still, the Abaddon have to lose one gun for one RR. The Megathron don't have to lose any DPS by fitting one RR.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Childstar
Minmatar
Republic University
|
Posted - 2009.04.11 21:28:00 -
[1872]
Edited by: Childstar on 11/04/2009 21:35:08
Originally by: Goumindong
Originally by: Childstar
All the abaddons resists are HIGHER and the fit has MORE armour and EHP.
2 x anp mega 71.4em, 62.8th, 62.8ki, 48.5ex.
1 x eanm aba 76.1em, 68.9th, 64.1ki, 61.7ex.
If you want to compare tanks then do so with each ships tank being hit by a equal ammount of EACH AND EVERY dmg type. Because in a true gang fight you will be getting hit by them all, although a higher % of thermal due to drones.
I am sorry, i should have been explicit with you.
Relative values. The Abaddon gets 11.25% extra on its explosive, the Mega gets 14% extra on its kinetic.
Your 3 HS abaddon [1 EANM, 2 plates] does have more armor and slightly better resists, but not enough that it makes up for the DPS of the mega, which was the question before you tried to deflect it(again)
Im not trying to deflect anything you are.
1. Comparing unfitted stats when you know the mega has fitting issues is pathetically obvious.
2. After fitting it is 4.7em, 6.1th, 1,3ki 13.2ex more resists for the abad with 3,897 more armour and 31,348 more EHP.
Mega has 31,454 armour and 118,388 EHP.
Abad has 35,351 armour and 149,678 EHP.
The mega MAY (i cannot be bothered to work it out at the moment) have a very marginal greater DPS after relative resists.
But considering this is at BLASTER OPTIMAL, the abad has 300% more range + plenty more tank with no holes its very clear that the megas MAYBE slight more damage is nothing.
Getting spanked in public by your own alliance is embarresing |
Childstar
Minmatar
Republic University
|
Posted - 2009.04.11 21:30:00 -
[1873]
Originally by: NightmareX
Blah blah blah rant about solo BS pvp, 1 v 1 fights and faction ships
Do you have anything worthwhile to add?.
Getting spanked in public by your own alliance is embarresing |
Karentaki
Gallente
Oberon Incorporated
Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.04.11 22:11:00 -
[1874]
Originally by: Goumindong
This is not true. All hardeners have a proportionally similar effect no matter the resistance they are boosting.
No. The percentage decrease in damage received is greater the lower the starting resists.
Originally by: Goumindong
Your evaluation fails in three areas.
1. It gets the numbers wrong. The resistances are not 40% and 10%, but 55% and 25%.
I know. This doesn't matter. Stick your own numbers in if you think it will make any difference.
Originally by: Goumindong
2. Effective hit points is what matters, and singular resistance modules can be substituted for plates and damage mods which will have a proportionately greater effect.
This was NOT the argument you were making, and I agree that in a lot of situations plates and damage mods are better than resists. HOWEVER, the closer you can get your resists to uniform, the better you will do against uniform damage for a given number of hardener slots.
Originally by: Goumindong
The only time you get close to making the case for specific hardeners is on BS sized shield tanks since their tanking modules do not compete with their damage mods and since extenders on the BS level are less strong compared to plates.
Again, you are changing your argument. The original argument was about 'omni-hardening' vs 'hole-plugging'.
Originally by: Goumindong
The fact that you are wrong can also be proven quite easily. Load up EFT and get a blank battleship hull. Stick a single Explosive hardener on it. Record the EHP. EHP/DPS is how long it takes to kill you. Since DPS will be constant in our example we can record the relative differences of each module. Higher is better.
Mega: 1 Exp Hard II: 35,143 OMNI EHP (overloaded 35,850)
Mega: 1 EANM II: 36,481 OMNI EHP
Mega: 1 ANP II: 35,304 OMNI EHP
Mega: 1 Plate: 40,160 OMNI EHP
As you can see, the EANM strictly beats the EXP hardener in all situations for the same CPU use. An ANP beats it with 0 CPU use unless you're overloading.(and there is no reason to fit an ANP if you can fit an EANM instead, which you can do if you're fitting an explosive hardener there ;)
Energized Reactive Membrane II: 37.5 total resistance boost.
EANM II: 80% total resistance bonus.
Now is it really a surprise that the EANM is better for EHP?
Having looked at the stats I actually concede that an EANM is better than a specific hardener, but only because it has vastly better total resistance boosts.
Originally by: Goumindong
This of course is all very obvious. The question then becomes not "does a single module win" its "what happens when you get stacking penalties" and the answer is always, invariably "unless you know what damage type the other guy is going to be doing, you want to omni tank"
I'm not sure this is true. While I haven't done the maths for it, but I suspect that since stacking penalties will hit multiple EANM's, while not hitting specific hardeners of different damage types, it will actually work out in favour of 'hole plugging'.
NOTE TO SELF: Look at the actual figures next time.
Quote:
EVE is like a sandbox with landmines. Deal with it.
|
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.04.11 22:26:00 -
[1875]
Edited by: NightmareX on 11/04/2009 22:29:34
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: NightmareX
Blah blah blah rant about solo BS pvp, 1 v 1 fights and faction ships
Do you have anything worthwhile to add?.
Yes i do, but do you?.
Ok, here is a math on how the stats and that is with the Navy Mega with 2x damage mods against the Abaddon with 3x damage mods.
The Navy Mega have 1x Damage Control II, 3x Coreli ANP's, 1x EANM II, 1x 1600mm RTP and 2x MFS II's. Yes the Navy Mega have a Heavy Capacitor Booster II and one RR in this setup to.
The Abaddon does have 1x Damage Control II, 2x Amarr Navy EANM's, 1x 1600mm RTP and 3x HS II's. And it have 7 guns and one RR.
Both of the setups here is with 3x t1 Trimarks.
All of the setups and stats are with 'All skills on level 5' in EFT v2.10 (The new version).
The Navy Mega here have 152705 EHP with 79.9% EM, 73.9% Thermal & Kinetic and 63.8% Explosive resists.
The Abaddon here have 142111 EHP with 82.7% EM, 77.5% Thermal, 74% Kinetic and 72.3% Explosive resists.
That's 7% more EHP on the Navy Mega than the Abaddon have.
The Navy mega have 26921 armor HP while the Abaddon here have 24144 armor HP. That's 24144 + 11.5% = 26920,56, that is the same as the Navy mega have in armor HP. So the Navy Mega have 11.5% more armor HP than the Abaddon have.
Now lets go to the Neutrons and the Caldari Navy Antimatter L ammo. The Caldari Navy Antimatter L does 32.2 kinetic damage and 23 thermal damage.
Then we take 32.2 damage minus the 74% Kinetic resist the Abaddon have to kinetic. And that damage will then be 8,372 damage.
Then we take the Thermal damage that is 23 minus the 77.5% Thermal resist your Abaddon have. And that will be 5,175 damage.
And 8,372 damage + 5,175 damage = 13,547 damage.
Now take the 13,547 damage and then multiple it with the gun damage mod on the Neutrons with 2x MFS II's.
The gun damage mod on the Neutron Mega with 2x MFS II's are 9.92537.
Now take 13,547 x 9.92537 = 134,45898739.
Now lets go to the Pulses and the Amarr Navy Multifrequency L. The Amarr Navy Multifrequency L does 32.2 EM damage and 23 Thermal damage.
Then we take the 32.2 EM damage minus the 79.9% EM resists i have on the Navy Mega. And that is 6,4722 damage.
And then take the 23 Thermal damage minus the 73.9% Thermal resist i have on my Navy Mega. And that will be 6,003 damage.
And 6,4722 damage + 6,003 damage = 12,4752 damage.
Now take the 12,4752 damage and then multiple it with the gun damage mod.
The gun damage mod on the Pulse Abaddon with 3x HS II's are 8.99289.
Now take 12,4752 x 8.99289 = 112,188101328.
And 112.2 + 19.83% = 134,44926. Yeah that's the closest i take the score on the Navy Mega's gun damage on the Neutrons. So the Navy Mega is doing 19.83% more DPS with 2x MFS II's over the Abaddon with 3x HS II's.
Now take the ROF into the picture here. The Abaddon with 3x damage mods have a ROF of 4.33527 secs, while the Neutron Navy Mega with 2x damage mods have a ROF of 4.61155 secs.
Now take the 4.33527 secs ROF the Abaddon have and + it with 6.38% = 4,611860226 that is about the same ROF the t2 Neutrons have. So the Pulses here have 6.38% faster ROF than the Neutrons.
So now we take the 19.83% damage advantage the Navy Mega had before the ROF was taken in, and then we - it with 6.38%. And 19.83 - 6.38 = 13,45%.
So now when we have taken EVERYTHING into the math here, then the Navy Mega are doing 13,45% more DPS than the Abaddon at 4.5 km.
Now take the drones to into this calculation.
The Navy Mega with 5x Ogre II drones are doing 317 DPS while the Abaddon with 3x Ogre II 190 DPS.
The drones have a duration of 4 secs here. And 190 + 66.8% more DPS = 316,92, also pretty accurate to 317 DPS.
Continues on next reply...............
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.04.11 22:27:00 -
[1876]
Edited by: NightmareX on 11/04/2009 22:34:30
Lets look at cap stability now.
The Pulse Abaddon use 2400 cap ONLY by the 7x guns after 43 seconds, while the Navy Mega with 2x MFS II's use 955,5 cap every 46 seconds by only using the guns.
So lets say that the Abaddon doesn't have to use the MWD. And then we look at the Navy Mega again. First the Navy Mega use 955.5 cap every 46 seconds with the guns only. And then we use the MWD for 2 cycles, and that's 955.5 cap on the guns + 594 cap per cycles on the MWD. So that will be 955.5 + 1188 = 2143,5 cap used.
But you can still use the RR one time to on the Navy Mega. And the RR use 189 cap per cycle. So you can then use it one time to within those 46 seconds.
So 2143,5 + 189 = 2332,5. And that's lower cap usage on the Navy mega after all that than the Abaddon have after 43 seconds by ONLY shooting.
So in short, lets see what the Navy Mega is better than the Abaddon at:
1. The Navy Mega have 7% more EHP on the Navy Mega than the Abaddon.
2. The Navy Mega have 11.5% more armor HP than the Abaddon have.
3. The Navy Mega is doing 13,45% more DPS with the guns only than the Abaddon at 4.5 km.
4. The Navy Mega with 5x Ogre II's are doing 66.8% more DPS with it's drones that have a duration of 4 secs than the Abaddon with 3x Ogre II's is doing.
5. The Navy Mega have 76-77% better tracking like i said earlier.
6. When both of the ships are using MWD, the Navy Mega is 115 m/s faster than the Abaddon.
7.The Navy Mega is more cap stable than the Abaddon. The Navy Mega after 46 second and after shoting all that time and using the MWD for 2 cycles and the RR for 1 cycle, the Navy Mega still after 46 seconds have lower cap usage than the Abaddon have used in cap after 43 secs. And IF the Abaddon have to use the MWD within those 43 seconds, then he will screw the cap stability against the Navy Mega even more.
8. The Navy Mega is the coolest looking BS in the game.
9. The Navy Mega is the best RR, DPS and EHP combined ship you can get.
So when you look at all of this, you know why i choose the Navy Mega before any other BS'es, even when the Navy Mega cost as it does.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Childstar
Minmatar
Republic University
|
Posted - 2009.04.11 22:32:00 -
[1877]
Originally by: Karentaki
Originally by: Goumindong
stuff
more stuff
You are right about plug and plate but it depends on the ship it it fitted on, FOR EXAMPLE the phoons plug and plate fit shown in this thread is great and has awsome coverage of ALL resists and very nice EHP.
Getting spanked in public by your own alliance is embarresing |
Childstar
Minmatar
Republic University
|
Posted - 2009.04.11 22:34:00 -
[1878]
Originally by: NightmareX
blah blah blah faction fit + faction ship blah blah
Why are you wasting your time?.
Getting spanked in public by your own alliance is embarresing |
Childstar
Minmatar
Republic University
|
Posted - 2009.04.11 22:35:00 -
[1879]
Edited by: Childstar on 11/04/2009 22:34:52
Originally by: NightmareX
Yet more worthless stats from a faction ship.
Whatever.
Getting spanked in public by your own alliance is embarresing |
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.04.11 22:39:00 -
[1880]
Edited by: NightmareX on 11/04/2009 22:42:14
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: NightmareX
blah blah blah faction fit + faction ship blah blah
Why are you wasting your time?.
I'm not wasting my time at all because your fun to make fun of when you can't do maths right. And when you think the Navy Mega is not worth the isk it cost.
Originally by: Childstar
Edited by: Childstar on 11/04/2009 22:34:52
Originally by: NightmareX
Yet more worthless stats from a faction ship.
Whatever.
Nice, posting 2 replies just to say one thing is really for the cool.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
|
|
Childstar
Minmatar
Republic University
|
Posted - 2009.04.11 22:47:00 -
[1881]
Edited by: Childstar on 11/04/2009 22:48:22
Originally by: NightmareX
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: NightmareX
blah blah blah faction fit + faction ship blah blah
Why are you wasting your time?.
I'm not wasting my time at all because your fun to make fun of when you can't do maths right. And when you think the Navy Mega is not worth the isk it cost.
600 mil for:
1. The same DPS and weapons range as a normal mega (4.5KM).
2. ONLY 10k (7%) more EHP than the abaddon.
3. LOWER resists than the abaddon.
4. A MASSIVE bullseye painted on your ship, right underneath the sign syaing "hello im primary MELT ME PLEASE"...
IT IS NOT WORTH IT.
Getting spanked in public by your own alliance is embarresing |
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.04.11 22:47:00 -
[1882]
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: NightmareX
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: NightmareX
blah blah blah faction fit + faction ship blah blah
Why are you wasting your time?.
I'm not wasting my time at all because your fun to make fun of when you can't do maths right. And when you think the Navy Mega is not worth the isk it cost.
600 mil for:
1. The same DPS and weapons range as a normal mega (4.5KM).
2. ONLY 10k more EHP than the abaddon.
3. LOWER resists than the abaddon.
4. A MASSIVE bullseye painted on your ship, right underneath the sign syaing "hello im primary"...
IT IS NOT WORTH IT.
Not worth it for you, but for me and probably many others it is.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Childstar
Minmatar
Republic University
|
Posted - 2009.04.11 22:52:00 -
[1883]
Edited by: Childstar on 11/04/2009 22:53:52
Originally by: NightmareX
Not worth it for you, but for me and probably many others it is.
No its not worth it, and you are only saying its worth it because you have never flown it and never will.
Its a stupid pointless and expensive fit and i suggest you read point 4 again.
Now post a fit for a proper/regularly used standard mega or go away and stop making pointless fits.
Getting spanked in public by your own alliance is embarresing |
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.04.11 22:56:00 -
[1884]
Edited by: NightmareX on 11/04/2009 22:57:33
Originally by: Childstar
Edited by: Childstar on 11/04/2009 22:53:52
Originally by: NightmareX
Not worth it for you, but for me and probably many others it is.
No its not worth it, and you are only saying its worth it because you have never flown it and never will.
Its a stupid pointless and expensive fit and i suggest you read point 4 again.
Now post a fit for a proper/regularly used standard mega or go away and stop making pointless fits.
LOL, i know it's worth it even if i haven't flown it before. Even after i lose it i will still say it's worth it by miles.
Well, for a poor and lazy PVPer like you, that only have to press F1 if the weapons are grouped or F1-F8 if not and then only watch some fireworks.
Maybe you should find ways to earn more isk heh?.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Childstar
Minmatar
Republic University
|
Posted - 2009.04.11 23:01:00 -
[1885]
Edited by: Childstar on 11/04/2009 23:03:36
Originally by: NightmareX
LOL, i know it's worth it even if i haven't flown it before.
LOL typical NightmareX statment...no XP, no idea, no truth, no clue, no intention of actually flying it, ............................................................................
and no chance of anybody actually believing you that you will fly it.
Getting spanked in public by your own alliance is embarresing |
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.04.11 23:03:00 -
[1886]
Edited by: NightmareX on 11/04/2009 23:06:48
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: NightmareX
LOL, i know it's worth it even if i haven't flown it before.
LOL typical NightmareX statment...no XP, no idea, no truth, no clue, no intention of flting it, ............................................................................
and no chance of anybody actually believing you that you will fly it.
Do you even know WHY i did buy the Navy Mega to begin with?. No you don't.
Use 15-20 mins to think about it and come back and tell me what you have found out.
EDIT: Just to add. I was 2 seconds from buying a Machariel with a Core X-Type MWD before i buyed the Navy Mega. But i changed my mind totally right in time after i saw some facts.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Childstar
Minmatar
Republic University
|
Posted - 2009.04.11 23:07:00 -
[1887]
Originally by: NightmareX
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: NightmareX
LOL, i know it's worth it even if i haven't flown it before.
LOL typical NightmareX statment...no XP, no idea, no truth, no clue, no intention of flting it, ............................................................................
and no chance of anybody actually believing you that you will fly it.
Do you even know WHY i did buy the Navy Mega to begin with?. No you don't.
Use 15-20 mins to think about it and come back and tell me what you have found out.
So you could fit it with a pimped faction fit and after every mirror get moved in it to FD- so you can play YOUR easy mode, epeen posting in FD- local version of eve online....
Everybody knows that pal its hardly a secret and i do not need 15 seconds let alone 15mins to think about it....
Getting spanked in public by your own alliance is embarresing |
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.04.11 23:09:00 -
[1888]
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: NightmareX
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: NightmareX
LOL, i know it's worth it even if i haven't flown it before.
LOL typical NightmareX statment...no XP, no idea, no truth, no clue, no intention of flting it, ............................................................................
and no chance of anybody actually believing you that you will fly it.
Do you even know WHY i did buy the Navy Mega to begin with?. No you don't.
Use 15-20 mins to think about it and come back and tell me what you have found out.
So you could fit it with a pimped faction fit and after every mirror get moved in it to FD- so you can play YOUR easy mode, epeen posting in FD- local version of eve online....
Everybody knows that pal its hardly a secret and i do not need 15 seconds let alone 15mins to think about it....
More whine to come with?.
Seriously dude, if you have nothing more to add to this topic than crying, whining and trolling, then please leave this topic and never come back.
At least add some nice stuffs like i did with the Navy Mega.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Childstar
Minmatar
Republic University
|
Posted - 2009.04.11 23:12:00 -
[1889]
Edited by: Childstar on 11/04/2009 23:12:42
Originally by: NightmareX
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: NightmareX
Do you even know WHY i did buy the Navy Mega to begin with?. No you don't.
Use 15-20 mins to think about it and come back and tell me what you have found out.
So you could fit it with a pimped faction fit and after every mirror get moved in it to FD- so you can play YOUR easy mode, epeen posting in FD- local version of eve online....
Everybody knows that pal its hardly a secret and i do not need 15 seconds let alone 15mins to think about it....
At least add some nice stuffs like i did with the Navy Mega.
You have added nothing to this thread but stupid fits on stupid ships and a whole lot of troll.
Getting spanked in public by your own alliance is embarresing |
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.04.11 23:17:00 -
[1890]
Edited by: NightmareX on 11/04/2009 23:19:36
Originally by: Childstar
Edited by: Childstar on 11/04/2009 23:12:42
Originally by: NightmareX
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: NightmareX
Do you even know WHY i did buy the Navy Mega to begin with?. No you don't.
Use 15-20 mins to think about it and come back and tell me what you have found out.
So you could fit it with a pimped faction fit and after every mirror get moved in it to FD- so you can play YOUR easy mode, epeen posting in FD- local version of eve online....
Everybody knows that pal its hardly a secret and i do not need 15 seconds let alone 15mins to think about it....
At least add some nice stuffs like i did with the Navy Mega.
You have added nothing to this thread but stupid fits on stupid ships and a whole lot of troll.
Should i really reply to those cry replies?. No i shouldn't tbh.
Ok dude, i'll let you have the last man to post in this topic. Because you last replies will be nothing more than whines, crying and trolling anyways.
So only because i wont reply much to you from now on, it doesn't mean i have left the topic or are believing you in any ways.
It only means i'm ignoring your utterly ******ed whine, cry and troll posts.
So from now on, say whatever you like to say as long is nothing that have with this topic to do.
Enjoy the spams from Childstar now.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
|
|
Childstar
Minmatar
Republic University
|
Posted - 2009.04.11 23:20:00 -
[1891]
Originally by: NightmareX
emo post to cover bailing and having 0 reasonable arguments about the actual topic
Good riddance.
Getting spanked in public by your own alliance is embarresing |
Goumindong
Amarr
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.04.11 23:35:00 -
[1892]
Edited by: Goumindong on 11/04/2009 23:35:53
Originally by: Childstar
1. Comparing unfitted stats when you know the mega has fitting issues is pathetically obvious.
I am doing no such thing. I even showed you the fits.
Quote:
2. After fitting it is 4.7em, 6.1th, 1,3ki 13.2ex more resists for the abad with 3,897 more armour and 31,348 more EHP.
These numbers are worthless. Also, do you not understand the concept of relative?
Quote:
Mega has 31,454 armour and 118,388 EHP.
Abad has 35,351 armour and 149,678 EHP.
Your 3 Heat Sink Abaddon does not have that much EHP. Are you playing a bait and switch game here?
Also, your raw armor numbers are just plain wrong.
Quote:
Considering this is at BLASTER OPTIMAL, the abad has 300% more range + plenty more tank with no holes its very clear that the megas 15% more damage against laser ships only is insignificant.
Uhh, not sure how you understand "damage" to work, but see, the megathrons damage advantage extends to all ships that omni tank. Not just laser ships.
Originally by: Karentaki
No. The percentage decrease in damage received is greater the lower the starting resists.
No, its not.
Quote:
I know. This doesn't matter. Stick your own numbers in if you think it will make any difference.
considering we are looking at a game where the values are 55% specific and 25% omni i would say it matters a whole lot.
If you're not using the numbers in the game, you're just making crap up.
Quote:
This was NOT the argument you were making, and I agree that in a lot of situations plates and damage mods are better than resists. HOWEVER, the closer you can get your resists to uniform, the better you will do against uniform damage for a given number of hardener slots.
That is just plain not true, look either the uniform EHP numbers or the individual EHP numbers for each resistance.
Quote:
Again, you are changing your argument. The original argument was about 'omni-hardening' vs 'hole-plugging'.
on actual ships in the actual game using actual modules.
Quote:
Energized Reactive Membrane II: 37.5 total resistance boost.
EANM II: 80% total resistance bonus.
Now is it really a surprise that the EANM is better for EHP?
No, its not, but we aren't arguing about what the balance should be, we are arguing about what it is.
Quote:
I'm not sure this is true. While I haven't done the maths for it, but I suspect that since stacking penalties will hit multiple EANM's, while not hitting specific hardeners of different damage types, it will actually work out in favour of 'hole plugging'.
See, that is the thing. It is true. Look at the EHP values for both uniform EHP and all the specifics. When you omni tank with plates and damage mods you will maximize your efficiency in all cases where you might see a smidge of EM damage. You drop near 40% of your EM EHP for some 5% in ex/kin/therm. This even holds true on a 6 slot tank phoon(which is probably still better off with a 5 slot 2 dmg mod tank anyway)
Originally by: Childstar
You are right about plug and plate but it depends on the ship it it fitted on, FOR EXAMPLE the phoons plug and plate fit shown in this thread is great and has awsome coverage of ALL resists and very nice EHP.
That is great, but when you omni-tank it, its even better.
|
Childstar
Minmatar
Republic University
|
Posted - 2009.04.11 23:47:00 -
[1893]
Edited by: Childstar on 11/04/2009 23:47:19
Originally by: Goumindong
Quote:
2. After fitting it is 4.7em, 6.1th, 1,3ki 13.2ex more resists for the abad with 3,897 more armour and 31,348 more EHP.
These numbers are worthless. Also, do you not understand the concept of relative?
Quote:
Mega has 31,454 armour and 118,388 EHP.
Abad has 35,351 armour and 149,678 EHP.
Your 3 Heat Sink Abaddon does not have that much EHP. Are you playing a bait and switch game here?
Also, your raw armor numbers are just plain wrong.
1. THET ARE NOT WORTHLESS THEY ARE EXACT.
2. DO YOU UNDERSTAND THE CONCEPT OF GANGS HITTING FOR ALL DMG TYPES.
The 3 HS abaddon has exactly that ehp AND armour, if it looks high add gang bonuses.
I gave the mega the same bonuses...odd how you did not point that out.....
Originally by: Goumindong
Originally by: Childstar
You are right about plug and plate but it depends on the ship it it fitted on, FOR EXAMPLE the phoons plug and plate fit shown in this thread is great and has awsome coverage of ALL resists and very nice EHP.
That is great, but when you omni-tank it, its even better.
No its not.
Getting spanked in public by your own alliance is embarresing |
Goumindong
Amarr
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.04.12 00:05:00 -
[1894]
Edited by: Goumindong on 12/04/2009 00:05:16
Originally by: Childstar
1. THET ARE NOT WORTHLESS THEY ARE EXACT.
4.6 is not the same at 0 as it is at 50. As well, that is not the relation i was discussing.
Quote:
2. DO YOU UNDERSTAND THE CONCEPT OF GANGS HITTING FOR ALL DMG TYPES.
Do you understand the concept that the damage that your gang does depends on the ships that are in it? Gangs DPS is not independent of the ships you bring, so if you bring a ship that does less damage against armor, it affects how well your gang performs against armor tanks.
Quote:
No its not.
Except that it is, unless your goal is to be killed by amarran ships.
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Childstar
Minmatar
Republic University
|
Posted - 2009.04.12 00:25:00 -
[1895]
Edited by: Childstar on 12/04/2009 00:29:43
Originally by: Goumindong
Quote:
2. DO YOU UNDERSTAND THE CONCEPT OF GANGS HITTING FOR ALL DMG TYPES.
Do you understand the concept that the damage that your gang does depends on the ships that are in it? Gangs DPS is not independent of the ships you bring, so if you bring a ship that does less damage against armor, it affects how well your gang performs against armor tanks.
Do you understand the dmg your gang can tank depends on the ships you bring and the tanks they can fit?.
Do you understand the DMG your ships do is dependant on the available weapon range they have?.
The only way to be reasonably realistic in measuring a ships tank is to say thermal will be the most used damage type in gang combat (due to drone dmg) and set the rest as equal.
Then do a comparison with the available tanks.
So in a gang fight out of every 1000dps say 300 of it is thermal due to drones and 233 dps each from the other dmg types.
Originally by: Goumindong
Quote:
No its not.
Except that it is, unless your goal is to be killed by amarran ships.
Phoon plug and plate RR fit has > overall resists than the eanm fit, and > EM resists than the eanm fit has explosive resists.
So i guess it will be the eanm fit dying to mini and missile ships, as well as getting hit harder by all the other races than the plug and plate fit..
Getting spanked in public by your own alliance is embarresing |
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.04.12 02:19:00 -
[1896]
Edited by: NightmareX on 12/04/2009 02:25:10
Originally by: Childstar
Edited by: Childstar on 11/04/2009 23:32:49
Originally by: NightmareX
emo post to cover bailing and having 0 reasonable arguments about the actual topic
I guess i hit a nerve with this:
Originally by: NightmareX
Do you even know WHY i did buy the Navy Mega to begin with?. No you don't.
Use 15-20 mins to think about it and come back and tell me what you have found out.
Yes i do everybody does..
So you could fit it with a pimped faction fit and after every SISSI mirror geT moved in it to FD- so you can play YOUR easy mode, epeen posting in sissi FD- local version of eve online....
Everybody knows that pal its hardly a secret and i do not need 15 seconds let alone 15mins to think about it....
Anyway good riddance.
Just because your so dumb, i couldn't resist to not post lol. Because this is just tooooooooo funny.
Ok, since you clearly are dumb.
1. Did i buy the Navy Mega on Sisi or TQ?. Yes as you guess, i did buy it on TQ to use it there. I haven't used it yet, but the ship is 100% ready to be used when i have taken my sec status up to -1.9.
2. Dude i can get a Navy Mega for free on Sisi if i want. So i don't need the Navy Mega on TQ to play with it on Sisi when it's mirrored.
3. Lets say that you used 10 secs to find that out, that clearly was totally wrong, you still have 14 mins and 50 secs left to find out why i have a Navy Mega on TQ in the first place.
When you have found out why, then i will answer you back. But that will be later, because i'm going to bed now.
The longer time you use to find that out, the more stupier you are. And the more noob you are to.
Tick tock tick tock tick tock, time is ticking.
And lol for not knowing that the test server is called for Sisi or Singularity, not sissi. Noob alert noob alert.
Now i wait for the next super awesome reply from you about how much you can cry and whine about Sisi. I'm sure you can tell me more on how awesome Sisi is in your next reply. Looking forward to you really awesome thrilling Sisi story.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Bellum Eternus
Gallente
Death of Virtue
|
Posted - 2009.04.12 03:39:00 -
[1897]
I posted a nice little pic in another thread earlier. Here's a link to the pic:
lol lasers
All ships have similar tank and tackle, similar EHP and an omni tank with very high EM/therm resists. Target is the same neutron Blasterthron in the attacker position. All ships have max count Ogre IIs.
The Geddon and Abaddon far outdamage the Neutron Thron and the Hyperion, and the small area where the Neutron Thron out damages the Geddon doesn't make up for it's lack of performance elsewhere.
The old argument that drones make up for lack of DPS on the blaster ship's part doesn't hold up, and neither does the argument about armor tanking having EM/Therm as the highest resists there by reducing the on-target DPS of lasers. The target being shot has EM resists as the highest with 73.1 em 65.1 therm 65.1 kin 51.6 exp.
Lasers enjoy a massive DPS advantage over blasters as well as outstanding range and better effective tracking due to being able to engage at greater range for less relative transverse velocity.
In order to offset the massive range advantage lasers have over blasters, blasters need a very large increase in DPS.
Bellum Eternus
Inveniam viam aut faciam.
Death of Virtue is Recruiting
|
FievelGoesPostal
Gallente
The Giant Squid Corp.
|
Posted - 2009.04.12 04:56:00 -
[1898]
PO-TA-TOWNED to whoever thinks that Gallente boats suck in fleet battles, blaster or drones. Thats just ridiculous. If done properly, a Gallente fleet can wtfpwn any fleet it comes across with similar numbers, and if really done right can take on fleets a good bit larger than.
The problem is, too many people live in EFT. Its not as easy as point and click.As with anything in Eve, you have to think and use your brain. Everything has its advantages and disadvantages.
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Goumindong
Amarr
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.04.12 08:00:00 -
[1899]
Edited by: Goumindong on 12/04/2009 08:00:15
Originally by: Childstar
Do you understand the dmg your gang can tank depends on the ships you bring and the tanks they can fit?.
Yes, but you don't seem to..
Quote:
Do you understand the DMG your ships do is dependant on the available weapon range they have?.
Yes, and this is why lasers do less damage than blasters. Welcome to design goals circa "release day"
Quote:
The only way to be reasonably realistic in measuring a ships tank is to say thermal will be the most used damage type in gang combat (due to drone dmg) and set the rest as equal.
Then do a comparison with the available tanks.
So in a gang fight out of every 1000dps say 300 of it is thermal due to drones and 233 dps each from the other dmg types.
Not really, it kinda depends on the gang, and explosive drones are nearly as popular and kinetic drones a close third. If all you're facing is thermal drones, something is wrong.
Then there are all the droneless ships and ships not using damage drones.
Quote:
Phoon plug and plate RR fit has > overall resists than the eanm fit, and > EM resists than the eanm fit has explosive resists.
So i guess it will be the eanm fit dying to mini and missile ships, as well as getting hit harder by all the other races than the plug and plate fit..
No, it does not. A 3 plate, 6 slot tank omni phoon(3x trimark, 3 1600mm rt, 2 eanm, dcII) has 133,635 EHP. It has 200,386 Em, 113,646 ex, 125,986 kin, and 136,411 therm EHP's. A 2 plate 6 slot tri-hardened Phoon(3x trimark, 2x 1600mm rt, ex hard, kin hard, therm hard, dcII) has 118,112 EHP. It has 105,830 Em, 113,747 ex, 126,101 Kin, and 136,539 therm EHP's.
You trade <1% effectiveness against the other damage types for a nearly 50% drop in effectiveness against EM.
Congratulations, you traded 94,805 EM EHP for 101 EX EHP, 115 kin EHP, and 128 thermal EHP.
|
ChalSto
LOCKDOWN.
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.04.12 08:44:00 -
[1900]
Ok guys.
Simple solution:
TRAIN CALDARI.
and now, everyone shut the hell up and mods lock the threat plz.
Kthxnxtbye........n00bs
Originally by: Agmar
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"The North is so ghey that even the NPCs fly ravens." |
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Alkeena
Gallente
Dynamic Solutions
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Posted - 2009.04.12 09:19:00 -
[1901]
Edited by: Alkeena on 12/04/2009 09:22:46
Originally by: Goumindong
You trade <1% effectiveness against the other damage types for a nearly 50% drop in effectiveness against EM.
Don't forget that you can overheat the hardners for a 20% improvement whereas you can't do that with EANMs. Furthermore you can sustain this for quite some time (9:40 for just a single hardener or 4:20 for all 3). If you're in a 1v1 you'll only need one, perhaps two, and the fight should certainly be resolved within 10 minutes. Similarly if it's a gang fight where you need to overheat all 3 to account for a broad spectrum of incoming damage types you're quite likely to have either won/jumped/died in 4 minutes. In both cases the modules burning out isn't a significant issue.
With overheat then you're looking at:
EM: 105k
Exp 138k
Kin: 156k
Therm: 171k
Compare this with you're stated EANM values: 200,386 Em, 113,646 ex, 125,986 kin, and 136,411 therm
Delta:
EM: -95k
Exp: 25k
Kin: 30k
Therm: 35k
Total Delta: -5k
Clearly the hardeners present the better solution if you expect to be receiving any damage type other than EM as it provides a much more balanced resist spread. Clearly it would be ill-advised in the present climate, but that's simply because lasers are so prevalent. If hybrids or projectiles were the present FOTM it would be quite clear that the hardener solution wins handily. I mean look, 105 isn't that much worse than you're original exp ehp of 113, the hardener solution actually provides a significantly more balanced resist front while sacrificing what should be a very specialized resist (lasers and rainbow ravens) down to generic resist level.s
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Childstar
Minmatar
Republic University
|
Posted - 2009.04.12 10:11:00 -
[1902]
Edited by: Childstar on 12/04/2009 10:14:57
Originally by: Goumindong
Quote:
Do you understand the DMG your ships do is dependant on the available weapon range they have?.
Yes, and this is why lasers do less damage than blasters. Welcome to design goals circa "release day"
STFU, lasers do not do less damage than blasters at most of their available range, and even at the ranges they actually do SLIGHTLY less dmg than blasters lasers still do massive amounts of damage.
lasers vs blasters...........
Originally by: Goumindong
Quote:
The only way to be reasonably realistic in measuring a ships tank is to say thermal will be the most used damage type in gang combat (due to drone dmg) and set the rest as equal.
Then do a comparison with the available tanks.
So in a gang fight out of every 1000dps say 300 of it is thermal due to drones and 233 dps each from the other dmg types.
Not really, it kinda depends on the gang, and explosive drones are nearly as popular and kinetic drones a close third. If all you're facing is thermal drones, something is wrong.
Then there are all the droneless ships and ships not using damage drones.
In gang combat it is likely most of the drones will be thermal, as well as the fact that you will be getting hit by ALL dmg types. But if you wish set all dmg types to equal incoming damage and measuse the effeciancy of the available tanks.
Originally by: Goumindong
Congratulations, you traded 94,805 EM EHP for 101 EX EHP, 115 kin EHP, and 128 thermal EHP.
Wrong.
EM: 105k
Exp 138k
Kin: 156k
Therm: 171k
VS
200,386 Em
113,646 ex,
125,986 kin
136,411 th
EM: -95k
Exp: +25k
Kin: +30k
Therm: +35k
It is you who traded good resists/EHP against 3 dmg types just for 1.
Getting spanked in public by your own alliance is embarresing |
Laur Khal
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Posted - 2009.04.12 10:31:00 -
[1903]
Originally by: NightmareX
Just because your so dumb
this never fails to amuse me.
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.04.12 13:24:00 -
[1904]
Edited by: NightmareX on 12/04/2009 13:26:11
Originally by: Bellum Eternus
I posted a nice little pic in another thread earlier. Here's a link to the pic:
lol lasers
All ships have similar tank and tackle, similar EHP and an omni tank with very high EM/therm resists. Target is the same neutron Blasterthron in the attacker position. All ships have max count Ogre IIs.
The Geddon and Abaddon far outdamage the Neutron Thron and the Hyperion, and the small area where the Neutron Thron out damages the Geddon doesn't make up for it's lack of performance elsewhere.
The old argument that drones make up for lack of DPS on the blaster ship's part doesn't hold up, and neither does the argument about armor tanking having EM/Therm as the highest resists there by reducing the on-target DPS of lasers. The target being shot has EM resists as the highest with 73.1 em 65.1 therm 65.1 kin 51.6 exp.
Lasers enjoy a massive DPS advantage over blasters as well as outstanding range and better effective tracking due to being able to engage at greater range for less relative transverse velocity.
In order to offset the massive range advantage lasers have over blasters, blasters need a very large increase in DPS.
I don't believe that graph at all before you post both of the setups to the Abaddon and the Mega here.
If the Abaddons have 8 guns and no RR's, and then meet Neutron Megas with 7 guns and one RR, the Abaddons will lose BADLY no matter what or no matter how much DPS the Abaddons have.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Quixess
|
Posted - 2009.04.12 13:39:00 -
[1905]
Edited by: Quixess on 12/04/2009 13:39:24
Originally by: Laur Khal
Originally by: NightmareX
Just because your so dumb
this never fails to amuse me.
Irony at it's best, you could say.
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.04.12 13:46:00 -
[1906]
Edited by: NightmareX on 12/04/2009 13:48:18
Originally by: Quixess
Edited by: Quixess on 12/04/2009 13:39:24
Originally by: Laur Khal
Originally by: NightmareX
Just because your so dumb
this never fails to amuse me.
Irony at it's best, you could say.
Says the alt(s) with no balls to post with your main character.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Childstar
Minmatar
Republic University
|
Posted - 2009.04.12 14:19:00 -
[1907]
Originally by: NightmareX
Edited by: NightmareX on 12/04/2009 13:48:18
Originally by: Quixess
Edited by: Quixess on 12/04/2009 13:39:24
Originally by: Laur Khal
Originally by: NightmareX
Just because your so dumb
this never fails to amuse me.
Irony at it's best, you could say.
Says the alt(s) with no balls to post with your main character.
Says the main that posted support and praise for himself WITH a alt and then first pretended not to know himself, then claimed you were buddies, and later claimed you were brothers...all in the same thread and within a few pages......
Getting spanked in public by your own alliance is embarresing |
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.04.12 14:25:00 -
[1908]
Originally by: Childstar
Says the main that posted support and praise for himself WITH a alt and then first pretended not to know himself, then claimed you were buddies, and later claimed you were brothers...all in the same thread and within a few pages......
Yeah i posted with my alt Fatality Killer some few times when i was on someone elses computer where i didn't had stored NightmareX as default character on my account.
Yeah we can still be friends even when we are brothers. It's not like we are enemies to each others though.
Now, have you figured out why i did buy the Navy Mega in the first place yet?.
I'll guess you haven't.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Childstar
Minmatar
Republic University
|
Posted - 2009.04.12 14:27:00 -
[1909]
Edited by: Childstar on 12/04/2009 14:27:50
Originally by: NightmareX
Yeah i posted with my alt Fatality Killer some few times when i was on someone elses computer where i didn't had stored NightmareX as default character on my account.
Yeah we can still be friends even when we are brothers. It's not like we are enemies to each others though.
Electric is also your alt.
Originally by: NightmareX
Now, have you figured out why i did buy the Navy Mega in the first place yet?.
I'll guess you haven't.
Yes i have..
Its so you could fit it with a pimped faction fit and after every SISSI mirror get moved in it to FD- so you can play YOUR easy mode, epeen posting in sissi FD- local version of eve online....
Everybody knows that pal its hardly a secret....
Getting spanked in public by your own alliance is embarresing |
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.04.12 15:03:00 -
[1910]
Edited by: NightmareX on 12/04/2009 15:04:54
Originally by: Childstar
Edited by: Childstar on 12/04/2009 14:27:50
Originally by: NightmareX
Yeah i posted with my alt Fatality Killer some few times when i was on someone elses computer where i didn't had stored NightmareX as default character on my account.
Yeah we can still be friends even when we are brothers. It's not like we are enemies to each others though.
Electric is also your alt.
Originally by: NightmareX
Now, have you figured out why i did buy the Navy Mega in the first place yet?.
I'll guess you haven't.
Yes i have..
Its so you could fit it with a pimped faction fit and after every SISSI mirror get moved in it to FD- so you can play YOUR easy mode, epeen posting in sissi FD- local version of eve online....
Everybody knows that pal its hardly a secret....
1. Where is the proof of that?.
2. And again, you fail HARD to find out. But i'll wait for the next reply where you do the lovely copy pasta thingie about Sisi. Looking forward to you lovely story about Sisi again. Can i suscribe to you newsletter?.
Use you damn brain stooooopid.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
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Childstar
Minmatar
Republic University
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Posted - 2009.04.12 15:07:00 -
[1911]
Edited by: Childstar on 12/04/2009 15:09:42
Originally by: NightmareX
1. Where is the proof electric is my alt.
2. Now, have you figured out why i did buy the Navy Mega in the first place yet?.
I'll guess you haven't.
1. The proof is all over this thread.
2. Yes i have..
Its so you could fit it with a pimped faction fit and after every SISSI mirror get moved in it to FD- so you can play YOUR easy mode, epeen posting in sissi FD- local version of eve online....
Everybody knows that pal its hardly a secret....
Its so you could fit it with a pimped faction fit and after every SISSI mirror get moved in it to FD- so you can play YOUR easy mode, epeen posting in sissi FD- local version of eve online....
Everybody knows that pal its hardly a secret....![]()
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Childstar
Minmatar
Republic University
|
Posted - 2009.04.12 15:22:00 -
[1913]
Originally by: NightmareX
Maybe you can post some different setups on the Abaddon and then compare it to the Mega, Hyperion, Rokh or a Maelstrom etc on how the DPS, EHP resists and the rest of the stats are?.
Why should i gimp the abaddon fit?.
Originally by: NightmareX
EDIT: Paying 1.1 bill isk for the Navy Mega with the setup i have on it now on TQ just to play with it on Sisi, must be the stupiest **** poor reason i have ever heard lol.
And yet you have admitted on this very thread MANY MANY TIMES that you have never flown it on TQ, so all you have ever done is get it moved to FD- after every mirror....
Getting spanked in public by your own alliance is embarresing |
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.04.12 15:26:00 -
[1914]
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: NightmareX
Maybe you can post some different setups on the Abaddon and then compare it to the Mega, Hyperion, Rokh or a Maelstrom etc on how the DPS, EHP resists and the rest of the stats are?.
Why should i gimp the abaddon fit?.
Originally by: NightmareX
EDIT: Paying 1.1 bill isk for the Navy Mega with the setup i have on it now on TQ just to play with it on Sisi, must be the stupiest **** poor reason i have ever heard lol.
And yet you have admitted on this very thread MANY MANY TIMES that you have never flown it on TQ, so all you have ever done is get it moved to FD- after every mirror....
1. Because you rather do something for the topic than only doing the trolling maybe?.
And lol, so you gimping the Abaddon if you use 8 guns and 2x damage mods for example?. LOOOOOOOOOL so Abaddon can only use one setup and be good?. Hah that's what i call a fail Abaddon if that's the case.
2. Yes as i have said for the 7834697457469474777th time. Because of my sec status and because the location the Navy Mega is at now, i can't use it yet. Is a simple thing as this so hard to understand?.
I'll guess your just bitter as usual.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Childstar
Minmatar
Republic University
|
Posted - 2009.04.12 15:35:00 -
[1915]
Edited by: Childstar on 12/04/2009 15:37:37
Originally by: NightmareX
Yes as i have said for the 7834697457469474777th time. Because of my sec status and because the location the Navy Mega is at now on TQ, i can't use it yet. Is a simple thing as this so hard to understand?. At least i have got a very nice experience on flying the ship on Sisi before i can fly it on TQ though.
More lies....
lol navy mega fit UPDATED (so you already had it) on 2008.09.06 13:22:00
To busy to get you sec status up for all those months????...
You do not explain you lie to cover your lies that are on top of other lies.
Getting spanked in public by your own alliance is embarresing |
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.04.12 15:46:00 -
[1916]
Edited by: NightmareX on 12/04/2009 15:54:25
Originally by: Childstar
Edited by: Childstar on 12/04/2009 15:37:37
Originally by: NightmareX
Yes as i have said for the 7834697457469474777th time. Because of my sec status and because the location the Navy Mega is at now on TQ, i can't use it yet. Is a simple thing as this so hard to understand?. At least i have got a very nice experience on flying the ship on Sisi before i can fly it on TQ though.
More lies....
lol navy mega fit UPDATED (so you already had it) on 2008.09.06 13:22:00
To busy to get you sec status up for all those months????...
You do not explain you lie to cover your lies that are on top of other lies.
1. You know that my Setup was the first setup i added to that page?. Yes i had the Navy Mega with that setup maaaaany months before i did put up the web page. Ops, you was wrong AGAIN LOL.
2. As you have memory problems. Yes i have used months to get my sec status up. And lately i haven't taken my sec status up at all because, as you know, i'm very busy now like i have been for quite a time now.
See, last time i was saying to you that i was going to fix a Nissan 200SX S14 a car, then i was away for 2 days lol. And now i have even more to fix, because it's something very wrong with the engine. It produces hell of a lot with white exhaust. It's clearly showing that something is not like it should be. So we have to take out the engine and take everything off the engine etc etc.
Here & here is a picture of the car btw. Yes those pictures are a bit small. But that's because they are taken from the Facebook pictures to my friend that have this car.
3. More lies to come with?.
Dude your not convincing ANYONE here that the Abaddon is any good as you post now.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Childstar
Minmatar
Republic University
|
Posted - 2009.04.12 15:54:00 -
[1917]
Edited by: Childstar on 12/04/2009 15:55:37
Originally by: NightmareX
1. You know that my Setup was the first setup i added to that page?. Yes i had the Navy Mega with that setup maaaaany months before i did put up the web page. Ops, you was wrong AGAIN LOL.
I know no such thing and who cares if it was the first or last you have still had months to use it and get your sec status up.
So i was wrong about nothing especially about you being a liar.
Originally by: NightmareX
2. As you have memory problems. Yes i have used months to get my sec status up. And lately i haven't taken my sec status up at all because, as you know, i'm very bosy nowdays.
I have no memory problems as i remember ALL the rtimes you have lied on here.
And you have had LOADS of time to play on sissi so you could have got your sec status up easily, you just like safe play on easy mode sissi...
Originally by: NightmareX
Dude your not convincing ANYONE here that the Abaddon is any good as you post now
Considering this is about blasters and blaster ships i do not need to, although you needing to pimp a NAVY MEGA just to try and compete with the abaddon did a lot to prove my case...
Getting spanked in public by your own alliance is embarresing |
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.04.12 15:55:00 -
[1918]
Edited by: NightmareX on 12/04/2009 15:55:36
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: NightmareX
1. You know that my Setup was the first setup i added to that page?. Yes i had the Navy Mega with that setup maaaaany months before i did put up the web page. Ops, you was wrong AGAIN LOL.
I know no such thing and who cares if it was the first or last you hasve sdtill had months to use it.
So i was wrong about nothing.
Originally by: NightmareX
2. As you have memory problems. Yes i have used months to get my sec status up. And lately i haven't taken my sec status up at all because, as you know, i'm very bosy nowdays.
I have no memory problems as i remember ALL the rtimes you have lied on here.
And you have had LOADS of time to play on sissi so you could have got your sec status up easily, you just like safe play on easy mode sissi...
Originally by: NightmareX
Dude your not convincing ANYONE here that the Abaddon is any good as you post now
Considering this is about blasters and blaster ships i do not need to, although you needing to pimp a NAVY MEGA just to try and compete with the abaddon did a lot to prove my case...
You need a hug dude.
And read my post again before you posted.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Childstar
Minmatar
Republic University
|
Posted - 2009.04.12 15:56:00 -
[1919]
Originally by: NightmareX
1. You know that my Setup was the first setup i added to that page?. Yes i had the Navy Mega with that setup maaaaany months before i did put up the web page. Ops, you was wrong AGAIN LOL.
I know no such thing and who cares if it was the first or last you have still had months to use it and get your sec status up.
So i was wrong about nothing especially about you being a liar.
Originally by: NightmareX
2. As you have memory problems. Yes i have used months to get my sec status up. And lately i haven't taken my sec status up at all because, as you know, i'm very bosy nowdays.
I have no memory problems as i remember ALL the rtimes you have lied on here.
And you have had LOADS of time to play on sissi so you could have got your sec status up easily, you just like safe play on easy mode sissi...
Originally by: NightmareX
Dude your not convincing ANYONE here that the Abaddon is any good as you post now
Considering this is about blasters and blaster ships i do not need to, although you needing to pimp a NAVY MEGA just to try and compete with the abaddon did a lot to prove my case...
Getting spanked in public by your own alliance is embarresing |
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.04.12 15:59:00 -
[1920]
Edited by: NightmareX on 12/04/2009 15:59:49
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: NightmareX
1. You know that my Setup was the first setup i added to that page?. Yes i had the Navy Mega with that setup maaaaany months before i did put up the web page. Ops, you was wrong AGAIN LOL.
I know no such thing and who cares if it was the first or last you hasve sdtill had months to use it.
So i was wrong about nothing.
Originally by: NightmareX
2. As you have memory problems. Yes i have used months to get my sec status up. And lately i haven't taken my sec status up at all because, as you know, i'm very bosy nowdays.
I have no memory problems as i remember ALL the rtimes you have lied on here.
And you have had LOADS of time to play on sissi so you could have got your sec status up easily, you just like safe play on easy mode sissi...
Originally by: NightmareX
Dude your not convincing ANYONE here that the Abaddon is any good as you post now
Considering this is about blasters and blaster ships i do not need to, although you needing to pimp a NAVY MEGA just to try and compete with the abaddon did a lot to prove my case...
1. Yes you are still wrong.
2. Yes you have memory problems. I bet that you will say the same crap all over again after the next 2-3 replies, because you have forgotten what i have said.
3. When i need to pimp a Navy Mega to be a little better than the Abaddon, we can they cleary say that the Abaddon is overpowered. LOL now i wait for the ooooooh nahhhh the Abaddon is nothing wrong with, it's not overpowered at all naaaaah.
If it's not overpowered, then you better post some setups and stats that proves it then.
Anyways, you really should get a hug.
Please more emo posts. hey are just fun to read. It wont make your Abaddon any good if you can't post anything about the ship.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
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Childstar
Minmatar
Republic University
|
Posted - 2009.04.12 16:00:00 -
[1921]
Originally by: NightmareX
1. You know that my Setup was the first setup i added to that page?. Yes i had the Navy Mega with that setup maaaaany months before i did put up the web page. Ops, you was wrong AGAIN LOL.
I know no such thing and who cares if it was the first or last you have still had months to use it and get your sec status up.
So i was wrong about nothing especially about you being a liar.
Originally by: NightmareX
2. As you have memory problems. Yes i have used months to get my sec status up. And lately i haven't taken my sec status up at all because, as you know, i'm very bosy nowdays.
I have no memory problems as i remember ALL the rtimes you have lied on here.
And you have had LOADS of time to play on sissi so you could have got your sec status up easily, you just like safe play on easy mode sissi...
Originally by: NightmareX
Dude your not convincing ANYONE here that the Abaddon is any good as you post now
Considering this is about blasters and blaster ships i do not need to, although you needing to pimp a NAVY MEGA just to try and compete with the abaddon did a lot to prove my case...
Getting spanked in public by your own alliance is embarresing |
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.04.12 16:01:00 -
[1922]
Edited by: NightmareX on 12/04/2009 16:15:56
Originally by: Childstar
Epic rant and troll
What, posting the same crap over again?. LOL nice one, can i be your cool double /tripple....... poasted buddy? HI5.
Anyways, what are you trying to explain by posting the same over and over again?. Your not going to change my mind about the Navy Mega though LOL.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Childstar
Minmatar
Republic University
|
Posted - 2009.04.12 16:02:00 -
[1923]
Originally by: NightmareX
1. You know that my Setup was the first setup i added to that page?. Yes i had the Navy Mega with that setup maaaaany months before i did put up the web page. Ops, you was wrong AGAIN LOL.
I know no such thing and who cares if it was the first or last you have still had months to use it and get your sec status up.
So i was wrong about nothing especially about you being a liar.
Originally by: NightmareX
2. As you have memory problems. Yes i have used months to get my sec status up. And lately i haven't taken my sec status up at all because, as you know, i'm very bosy nowdays.
I have no memory problems as i remember ALL the rtimes you have lied on here.
And you have had LOADS of time to play on sissi so you could have got your sec status up easily, you just like safe play on easy mode sissi...
Originally by: NightmareX
Dude your not convincing ANYONE here that the Abaddon is any good as you post now
Considering this is about blasters and blaster ships i do not need to, although you needing to pimp a NAVY MEGA just to try and compete with the abaddon did a lot to prove my case...
Getting spanked in public by your own alliance is embarresing |
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.04.12 16:03:00 -
[1924]
Edited by: NightmareX on 12/04/2009 16:16:14
Originally by: Childstar
Epic rant and troll
LOLOL, your now bitter again. WHAT HAVE I DONE TO YOU NOW?.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Childstar
Minmatar
Republic University
|
Posted - 2009.04.12 16:04:00 -
[1925]
Originally by: NightmareX
1. You know that my Setup was the first setup i added to that page?. Yes i had the Navy Mega with that setup maaaaany months before i did put up the web page. Ops, you was wrong AGAIN LOL.
I know no such thing and who cares if it was the first or last you have still had months to use it and get your sec status up.
So i was wrong about nothing especially about you being a liar.
Originally by: NightmareX
2. As you have memory problems. Yes i have used months to get my sec status up. And lately i haven't taken my sec status up at all because, as you know, i'm very bosy nowdays.
I have no memory problems as i remember ALL the rtimes you have lied on here.
And you have had LOADS of time to play on sissi so you could have got your sec status up easily, you just like safe play on easy mode sissi...
Originally by: NightmareX
Dude your not convincing ANYONE here that the Abaddon is any good as you post now
Considering this is about blasters and blaster ships i do not need to, although you needing to pimp a NAVY MEGA just to try and compete with the abaddon did a lot to prove my case...
Getting spanked in public by your own alliance is embarresing |
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.04.12 16:05:00 -
[1926]
Edited by: NightmareX on 12/04/2009 16:14:32
Originally by: Childstar
Epic rant and troll
Dude, are you going to tell someone about some ships and setups or?.
I'm waiting for your well uber 100% very detailed explanation on how the Abaddon is.
Care to share some info?.
EDIT: Nvm, you don't have anything to explain, because the Abaddon sucks i'll guess.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Childstar
Minmatar
Republic University
|
Posted - 2009.04.12 16:10:00 -
[1927]
Originally by: NightmareX
1. You know that my Setup was the first setup i added to that page?. Yes i had the Navy Mega with that setup maaaaany months before i did put up the web page. Ops, you was wrong AGAIN LOL.
I know no such thing and who cares if it was the first or last you have still had months to use it and get your sec status up.
So i was wrong about nothing especially about you being a liar.
Originally by: NightmareX
2. As you have memory problems. Yes i have used months to get my sec status up. And lately i haven't taken my sec status up at all because, as you know, i'm very bosy nowdays.
I have no memory problems as i remember ALL the rtimes you have lied on here.
And you have had LOADS of time to play on sissi so you could have got your sec status up easily, you just like safe play on easy mode sissi...
Originally by: NightmareX
Dude your not convincing ANYONE here that the Abaddon is any good as you post now
Considering this is about blasters and blaster ships i do not need to, although you needing to pimp a NAVY MEGA just to try and compete with the abaddon did a lot to prove my case...
Getting spanked in public by your own alliance is embarresing |
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.04.12 16:14:00 -
[1928]
Edited by: NightmareX on 12/04/2009 16:14:04
Originally by: Childstar
Epic rant and troll
Ok so the Abaddon is really a crappy ship then. /me walks around and happily take a dance as a victory that the Abaddon finally is proven to be the crappiest BS in EVE.
Thank you.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Childstar
Minmatar
Republic University
|
Posted - 2009.04.12 16:14:00 -
[1929]
Originally by: NightmareX
1. You know that my Setup was the first setup i added to that page?. Yes i had the Navy Mega with that setup maaaaany months before i did put up the web page. Ops, you was wrong AGAIN LOL.
I know no such thing and who cares if it was the first or last you have still had months to use it and get your sec status up.
So i was wrong about nothing especially about you being a liar.
Originally by: NightmareX
2. As you have memory problems. Yes i have used months to get my sec status up. And lately i haven't taken my sec status up at all because, as you know, i'm very bosy nowdays.
I have no memory problems as i remember ALL the rtimes you have lied on here.
And you have had LOADS of time to play on sissi so you could have got your sec status up easily, you just like safe play on easy mode sissi...
Originally by: NightmareX
Dude your not convincing ANYONE here that the Abaddon is any good as you post now
Considering this is about blasters and blaster ships i do not need to, although you needing to pimp a NAVY MEGA just to try and compete with the abaddon did a lot to prove my case...
Getting spanked in public by your own alliance is embarresing |
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.04.12 16:18:00 -
[1930]
Edited by: NightmareX on 12/04/2009 16:19:00
Originally by: Childstar
Epic rant and troll
WHAT?????, you say the Abaddon should be nerfed because it's overpowered?, really???.
I thought that you would never say that. LOL now i'm happy because you finally admitted it that the Abaddon was waaaaay overpowered.
Gonna lend this detailed explanation on why the Abaddon is overpowered to CCP, so they can look at it and get it nerfed.
Thank you again.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
|
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Childstar
Minmatar
Republic University
|
Posted - 2009.04.12 16:19:00 -
[1931]
Edited by: Childstar on 12/04/2009 16:19:30
Originally by: NightmareX
1. You know that my Setup was the first setup i added to that page?. Yes i had the Navy Mega with that setup maaaaany months before i did put up the web page. Ops, you was wrong AGAIN LOL.
I know no such thing and who cares if it was the first or last you have still had months to use it and get your sec status up.
So i was wrong about nothing especially about you being a liar.
Originally by: NightmareX
2. As you have memory problems. Yes i have used months to get my sec status up. And lately i haven't taken my sec status up at all because, as you know, i'm very bosy nowdays.
I have no memory problems as i remember ALL the times you have lied on here.
And you have had LOADS of time to play on sissi so you could have got your sec status up easily, you just like safe play on easy mode sissi...
Originally by: NightmareX
Dude your not convincing ANYONE here that the Abaddon is any good as you post now
Considering this is about blasters and blaster ships i do not need to, although you needing to pimp a NAVY MEGA just to try and compete with the abaddon did a lot to prove my case...
Getting spanked in public by your own alliance is embarresing |
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.04.12 16:20:00 -
[1932]
Originally by: Childstar
Epic rant and troll
Now your saying the Machariel should be boosted to, and that's something i can agree on. Give the Machariel a speed boost.
Any more ideas on what need to be fixed?.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Childstar
Minmatar
Republic University
|
Posted - 2009.04.12 16:21:00 -
[1933]
Originally by: NightmareX
1. You know that my Setup was the first setup i added to that page?. Yes i had the Navy Mega with that setup maaaaany months before i did put up the web page. Ops, you was wrong AGAIN LOL.
I know no such thing and who cares if it was the first or last you have still had months to use it and get your sec status up.
So i was wrong about nothing especially about you being a liar.
Originally by: NightmareX
2. As you have memory problems. Yes i have used months to get my sec status up. And lately i haven't taken my sec status up at all because, as you know, i'm very bosy nowdays.
I have no memory problems as i remember ALL the times you have lied on here.
And you have had LOADS of time to play on sissi so you could have got your sec status up easily, you just like safe play on easy mode sissi...
Originally by: NightmareX
Dude your not convincing ANYONE here that the Abaddon is any good as you post now
Considering this is about blasters and blaster ships i do not need to, although you needing to pimp a NAVY MEGA just to try and compete with the abaddon did a lot to prove my case...
Getting spanked in public by your own alliance is embarresing |
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.04.12 16:25:00 -
[1934]
Originally by: Childstar
Epic rant and troll
Go HERE and learn that guy how to fit his Abaddon there.
Maybe you can be more of a help to him rather than a spamming this topic with nothing more that text that have nothing to say.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Childstar
Minmatar
Republic University
|
Posted - 2009.04.12 16:27:00 -
[1935]
Originally by: NightmareX
1. You know that my Setup was the first setup i added to that page?. Yes i had the Navy Mega with that setup maaaaany months before i did put up the web page. Ops, you was wrong AGAIN LOL.
I know no such thing and who cares if it was the first or last you have still had months to use it and get your sec status up.
So i was wrong about nothing especially about you being a liar.
Originally by: NightmareX
2. As you have memory problems. Yes i have used months to get my sec status up. And lately i haven't taken my sec status up at all because, as you know, i'm very bosy nowdays.
I have no memory problems as i remember ALL the times you have lied on here.
And you have had LOADS of time to play on sissi so you could have got your sec status up easily, you just like safe play on easy mode sissi...
Originally by: NightmareX
Dude your not convincing ANYONE here that the Abaddon is any good as you post now
Considering this is about blasters and blaster ships i do not need to, although you needing to pimp a NAVY MEGA just to try and compete with the abaddon did a lot to prove my case...
Getting spanked in public by your own alliance is embarresing |
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.04.12 16:28:00 -
[1936]
Originally by: Childstar
Epic rant and troll
There is also one guy that want to know a good setup for a geddon HERE.
Because your the pr0 master in Amarr ships and setups, you could as well help him. Right?.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Childstar
Minmatar
Republic University
|
Posted - 2009.04.12 16:29:00 -
[1937]
Originally by: NightmareX
1. You know that my Setup was the first setup i added to that page?. Yes i had the Navy Mega with that setup maaaaany months before i did put up the web page. Ops, you was wrong AGAIN LOL.
I know no such thing and who cares if it was the first or last you have still had months to use it and get your sec status up.
So i was wrong about nothing especially about you being a liar.
Originally by: NightmareX
2. As you have memory problems. Yes i have used months to get my sec status up. And lately i haven't taken my sec status up at all because, as you know, i'm very bosy nowdays.
I have no memory problems as i remember ALL the times you have lied on here.
And you have had LOADS of time to play on sissi so you could have got your sec status up easily, you just like safe play on easy mode sissi...
Originally by: NightmareX
Dude your not convincing ANYONE here that the Abaddon is any good as you post now
Considering this is about blasters and blaster ships i do not need to, although you needing to pimp a NAVY MEGA just to try and compete with the abaddon did a lot to prove my case...
Getting spanked in public by your own alliance is embarresing |
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.04.12 16:34:00 -
[1938]
Originally by: Childstar
Epic rant and troll
There's also one guy that want help with an Apoc to, care to help him here?.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Childstar
Minmatar
Republic University
|
Posted - 2009.04.12 16:35:00 -
[1939]
Originally by: NightmareX
1. You know that my Setup was the first setup i added to that page?. Yes i had the Navy Mega with that setup maaaaany months before i did put up the web page. Ops, you was wrong AGAIN LOL.
I know no such thing and who cares if it was the first or last you have still had months to use it and get your sec status up.
So i was wrong about nothing especially about you being a liar.
Originally by: NightmareX
2. As you have memory problems. Yes i have used months to get my sec status up. And lately i haven't taken my sec status up at all because, as you know, i'm very bosy nowdays.
I have no memory problems as i remember ALL the times you have lied on here.
And you have had LOADS of time to play on sissi so you could have got your sec status up easily, you just like safe play on easy mode sissi...
Originally by: NightmareX
Dude your not convincing ANYONE here that the Abaddon is any good as you post now
Considering this is about blasters and blaster ships i do not need to, although you needing to pimp a NAVY MEGA just to try and compete with the abaddon did a lot to prove my case...
Getting spanked in public by your own alliance is embarresing |
Childstar
Minmatar
Republic University
|
Posted - 2009.04.12 16:41:00 -
[1940]
Originally by: NightmareX
1. You know that my Setup was the first setup i added to that page?. Yes i had the Navy Mega with that setup maaaaany months before i did put up the web page. Ops, you was wrong AGAIN LOL.
I know no such thing and who cares if it was the first or last you have still had months to use it and get your sec status up.
So i was wrong about nothing especially about you being a liar.
Originally by: NightmareX
2. As you have memory problems. Yes i have used months to get my sec status up. And lately i haven't taken my sec status up at all because, as you know, i'm very bosy nowdays.
I have no memory problems as i remember ALL the times you have lied on here.
And you have had LOADS of time to play on sissi so you could have got your sec status up easily, you just like safe play on easy mode sissi...
Originally by: NightmareX
Dude your not convincing ANYONE here that the Abaddon is any good as you post now
Considering this is about blasters and blaster ships i do not need to, although you needing to pimp a NAVY MEGA just to try and compete with the abaddon did a lot to prove my case...
Getting spanked in public by your own alliance is embarresing |
|
|
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.04.12 16:45:00 -
[1941]
Originally by: Childstar
Epic rant and troll
Ai, i forgot to link you to this Abaddon topic to.
I think you should help those who really need the help dude.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Childstar
Minmatar
Republic University
|
Posted - 2009.04.12 16:46:00 -
[1942]
Originally by: NightmareX
1. You know that my Setup was the first setup i added to that page?. Yes i had the Navy Mega with that setup maaaaany months before i did put up the web page. Ops, you was wrong AGAIN LOL.
I know no such thing and who cares if it was the first or last you have still had months to use it and get your sec status up.
So i was wrong about nothing especially about you being a liar.
Originally by: NightmareX
2. As you have memory problems. Yes i have used months to get my sec status up. And lately i haven't taken my sec status up at all because, as you know, i'm very bosy nowdays.
I have no memory problems as i remember ALL the times you have lied on here.
And you have had LOADS of time to play on sissi so you could have got your sec status up easily, you just like safe play on easy mode sissi...
Originally by: NightmareX
Dude your not convincing ANYONE here that the Abaddon is any good as you post now
Considering this is about blasters and blaster ships i do not need to, although you needing to pimp a NAVY MEGA just to try and compete with the abaddon did a lot to prove my case...
Getting spanked in public by your own alliance is embarresing |
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.04.12 16:47:00 -
[1943]
Originally by: Childstar
Epic rant and troll
Hmm, i though that someone told me that all of the Gallente players was crosstraining to Amarr lol.
This isn't the case for the guy in this topic.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Childstar
Minmatar
Republic University
|
Posted - 2009.04.12 16:49:00 -
[1944]
Originally by: NightmareX
1. You know that my Setup was the first setup i added to that page?. Yes i had the Navy Mega with that setup maaaaany months before i did put up the web page. Ops, you was wrong AGAIN LOL.
I know no such thing and who cares if it was the first or last you have still had months to use it and get your sec status up.
So i was wrong about nothing especially about you being a liar.
Originally by: NightmareX
2. As you have memory problems. Yes i have used months to get my sec status up. And lately i haven't taken my sec status up at all because, as you know, i'm very bosy nowdays.
I have no memory problems as i remember ALL the times you have lied on here.
And you have had LOADS of time to play on sissi so you could have got your sec status up easily, you just like safe play on easy mode sissi...
Originally by: NightmareX
Dude your not convincing ANYONE here that the Abaddon is any good as you post now
Considering this is about blasters and blaster ships i do not need to, although you needing to pimp a NAVY MEGA just to try and compete with the abaddon did a lot to prove my case...
Getting spanked in public by your own alliance is embarresing |
Goumindong
Amarr
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.04.12 16:49:00 -
[1945]
Originally by: Alkeena
Clearly the hardeners present the better solution if you expect to be receiving any damage type other than EM as it provides a much more balanced resist spread; however, it would be ill-advised in the present climate due to the prevalence of lasers.
No, you need too expect both that you can time your overheat properly[20 second cylcle on your hardeners, so good luck] and you expect to take no EM damage. Your advantage fails as soon as you have a single raven or Amarr ship.
Quote:
I mean look, 105 isn't that much worse than you're original exp ehp of 113
This would matter if you could get 200k ex EHP.
Quote:
(9:40 for just a single hardener or 4:20 for all 3).
These numbers are wrong, you need to fit the rest of the ship to get accurate numbers, its 5 minutes for the single hardener, 2 minutes for all 3.
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.04.12 16:50:00 -
[1946]
Originally by: Childstar
Epic rant and troll
LOL, now THIS is a really bad ass setup to the Abaddon.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Childstar
Minmatar
Republic University
|
Posted - 2009.04.12 16:52:00 -
[1947]
Originally by: NightmareX
1. You know that my Setup was the first setup i added to that page?. Yes i had the Navy Mega with that setup maaaaany months before i did put up the web page. Ops, you was wrong AGAIN LOL.
I know no such thing and who cares if it was the first or last you have still had months to use it and get your sec status up.
So i was wrong about nothing especially about you being a liar.
Originally by: NightmareX
2. As you have memory problems. Yes i have used months to get my sec status up. And lately i haven't taken my sec status up at all because, as you know, i'm very bosy nowdays.
I have no memory problems as i remember ALL the times you have lied on here.
And you have had LOADS of time to play on sissi so you could have got your sec status up easily, you just like safe play on easy mode sissi...
Originally by: NightmareX
Dude your not convincing ANYONE here that the Abaddon is any good as you post now
Considering this is about blasters and blaster ships i do not need to, although you needing to pimp a NAVY MEGA just to try and compete with the abaddon did a lot to prove my case...
Getting spanked in public by your own alliance is embarresing |
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.04.12 16:55:00 -
[1948]
Originally by: Childstar
Epic rant and troll
Damn, i now found a setup on the Abaddon that really made my Navy mega look like crap.
Lookie here.
Now i'm going to sell my Navy Mega, my 2x Tempest's and one jaguar and my Vagabond to buy that and use the best ship ever with the best setup ever.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Childstar
Minmatar
Republic University
|
Posted - 2009.04.12 17:00:00 -
[1949]
Edited by: Childstar on 12/04/2009 17:01:47
Originally by: Goumindong
This would matter if you could get 200k ex EHP.
The plug and plate RR setup on the phoon is much better than the eanm fit in gang combat because it gives much better over all coverage.
The 200k em resistance the eanm fit gets skews the overall EHP result and makes it look better on EFT but if you look at each resist the plug and plate is much more effective in gang combat where you will be getting hit by ALL damages not just EM.
Getting spanked in public by your own alliance is embarresing |
Saul Reaver
Caldari
Oberon Incorporated
Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.04.12 17:41:00 -
[1950]
Train for Vagabond mate. While my main can fly Gallente/Amarr HAC/Recon my Minmatar alt can fly Minmatar/Caldari HAC/Recon. Out of those skills i'd say Minmatar HAC/Recon is the most fun out of them all. Vagabond is still the best HAC in game without a doubt and the Muninn works great as a cruiser class sniper that can deal a nice ammount of DPS with 720mm Howitzer Artillery II's fitted. Go with the standard 5 x 220mm Vulcan Autocannon II on the Vaga and fit a Heavy Missile Launcher II in the last high slot. A neut works well instead of the launcher aswell. If you choose Minmatar you will not regret it. I wish i trained it from day 1 tbh. In rust we trust
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Goumindong
Amarr
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.04.12 20:08:00 -
[1951]
Edited by: Goumindong on 12/04/2009 20:14:19
Originally by: Childstar
Edited by: Childstar on 12/04/2009 17:01:47
Originally by: Goumindong
This would matter if you could get 200k ex EHP.
The plug and plate RR setup on the phoon is much better than the eanm fit in gang combat because it gives much better over all coverage.
The 200k em resistance the eanm fit gets skews the overall EHP result and makes it look better on EFT but if you look at each resist the plug and plate is much more effective in gang combat where you will be getting hit by ALL damages not just EM.
We are still within one page with the numbers that prove your claim wrong. At least have the decency to wait till we're a few pages away to start lying again.
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Childstar
Minmatar
Republic University
|
Posted - 2009.04.12 20:31:00 -
[1952]
Edited by: Childstar on 12/04/2009 20:35:40
Originally by: Goumindong
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: Goumindong
This would matter if you could get 200k ex EHP.
The plug and plate RR setup on the phoon is much better than the eanm fit in gang combat because it gives much better over all coverage.
The 200k em resistance the eanm fit gets skews the overall EHP result and makes it look better on EFT but if you look at each resist the plug and plate is much more effective in gang combat where you will be getting hit by ALL damages not just EM.
We are still within one page with the numbers that prove your claim wrong. At least have the decency to wait till we're a few pages away to start lying again.
HARDNERS
EM: 105k
Exp 138k
Kin: 156k
Therm: 171k
VS
EANM
200,386 Em
113,646 ex
125,986 kin
136,411 therm
RESULT
EM : -95k
Exp: +25k
Kin: +30k
The: +35k
The only thing the EANM tanbk is better at is making lasers look bad, in actual combat against multiple dmg types the plug and plate is much BETTER.
Q. What is more likely to be faced in gang combat ?...ONLY EM dmg or ALL 4 dmg types and mostly thermal?.
A. ALL 4 dmg types and mostly thermal.
Getting spanked in public by your own alliance is embarresing |
Goumindong
Amarr
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.04.13 00:15:00 -
[1953]
As explained earlier, only when you're overloading them[Good luck with a 20 second cycle time to get that right] for a very limited amount of time. And only on a single ship.
As for your answer, you do not need to only see EM damage to lose out in the question. So long as there is a smidgen of EM you're going to lose out.
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Raxxius Maelstrom
|
Posted - 2009.04.13 00:23:00 -
[1954]
Originally by: Childstar
Edited by: Childstar on 12/04/2009 20:37:36
Originally by: Goumindong
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: Goumindong
This would matter if you could get 200k ex EHP.
The plug and plate RR setup on the phoon is much better than the eanm fit in gang combat because it gives much better over all coverage.
The 200k em resistance the eanm fit gets skews the overall EHP result and makes it look better on EFT but if you look at each resist the plug and plate is much more effective in gang combat where you will be getting hit by ALL damages not just EM.
We are still within one page with the numbers that prove your claim wrong. At least have the decency to wait till we're a few pages away to start lying again.
HARDNERS
EM: 105k
Exp 138k
Kin: 156k
Therm: 171k
VS
EANM
200,386 Em
113,646 ex
125,986 kin
136,411 therm
RESULT
EM : -95k
Exp: +25k
Kin: +30k
The: +35k
The only thing the EANM tanbk is better at is making lasers look bad, in actual combat against multiple dmg types the plug and plate is much BETTER.
Q. What is more likely to be faced in gang combat ?...ONLY EM dmg or ALL 4 dmg types and mostly thermal (due to drones)?.
A. ALL 4 dmg types and mostly thermal (due to drones).
I disagree because when you're looking at explosive damage you're normally looking at EMP from a substandard battleship (by your own opinion) Barrage may be used but still the laser/blaster/railboats are still going to be making up a significant portion of DPS vs explosive.
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Childstar
Minmatar
Republic University
|
Posted - 2009.04.13 09:56:00 -
[1955]
Edited by: Childstar on 13/04/2009 10:02:36
Originally by: Goumindong
As explained earlier, only when you're overloading them[Good luck with a 20 second cycle time to get that right] for a very limited amount of time. And only on a single ship.
Its not so limited compared to how long a ship maybe primaried, and wtf are you blathering on about "only on one ship" for we are talking about the available tank for the phoon.
Originally by: Goumindong
As for your answer, you do not need to only see EM damage to lose out in the question. So long as there is a smidgen of EM you're going to lose out.
Rubbish its your tank that loses out if theres anything but EM against it the plug and plate does good against EM and great against all the others.
Getting spanked in public by your own alliance is embarresing |
Childstar
Minmatar
Republic University
|
Posted - 2009.04.13 09:59:00 -
[1956]
Originally by: Raxxius Maelstrom
I disagree because when you're looking at explosive damage you're normally looking at EMP from a substandard battleship (by your own opinion) Barrage may be used but still the laser/blaster/railboats are still going to be making up a significant portion of DPS vs explosive.
1. When did i say the phoon was substandard?, its a great RR ship, not only that but the explosive dmg it does would mostly come from its missiles.
2. If the gang is mostly blasters, rail and lasers that is still more thermal and kinetic than EM.
Getting spanked in public by your own alliance is embarresing |
Seishi Maru
M. Corp
Mostly Harmless
|
Posted - 2009.04.13 11:31:00 -
[1957]
Originally by: Raxxius Maelstrom
We are still within one page with the numbers that prove your claim wrong. At least have the decency to wait till we're a few pages away to start lying again.
HARDNERS
EM: 105k
Exp 138k
Kin: 156k
Therm: 171k
VS
EANM
200,386 Em
113,646 ex
125,986 kin
136,411 therm
RESULT
EM : -95k
Exp: +25k
Kin: +30k
The: +35k
The only thing the EANM tanbk is better at is making lasers look bad, in actual combat against multiple dmg types the plug and plate is much BETTER.
Q. What is more likely to be faced in gang combat ?...ONLY EM dmg or ALL 4 dmg types and mostly thermal (due to drones)?.
A. ALL 4 dmg types and mostly thermal (due to drones).
I disagree because when you're looking at explosive damage you're normally looking at EMP from a substandard battleship (by your own opinion) Barrage may be used but still the laser/blaster/railboats are still going to be making up a significant portion of DPS vs explosive.
Not true. Most missile spammers that are not bonus lmited tokinetic wil beusign explosive. Most smart Minmatar pilots will be usign Fusion (EMP CRAP damage distribution makes bad against both layers of defense).
Also there is the NEED in 0.0 to be ready for a titan DD when you are in a RR gang . And that is main reasonwhy you NEED to ahve good resists on all 4 damage types on 0.0.
If you lack slots.. EANM is better. BUt if you have expendable slots like in phoon or dominix the hardeners are better.
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Goumindong
Amarr
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.04.13 16:52:00 -
[1958]
Originally by: Seishi Maru
Not true. Most missile spammers that are not bonus lmited tokinetic wil beusign explosive. Most smart Minmatar pilots will be usign Fusion (EMP CRAP damage distribution makes bad against both layers of defense).
Also there is the NEED in 0.0 to be ready for a titan DD when you are in a RR gang . And that is main reasonwhy you NEED to ahve good resists on all 4 damage types on 0.0.
If you lack slots.. EANM is better. BUt if you have expendable slots like in phoon or dominix the hardeners are better.
EMP is actually better than fusion against all types of tanks. Whether or not its an omni-tank or not, with the sole exception of omni-repping armor tanks(and even then its not by much)
EM is just as likely a choice as EXP(or a mix) for missile users, remember you still have to go through an enemies shield.
Originally by: Childstar
Its not so limited compared to how long a ship maybe primaried, and wtf are you blathering on about "only on one ship" for we are talking about the available tank for the phoon.
20 seconds is a long time compared to how long a ship might be primaried. If you're primaried for much longer than that[2 minutes], you run into the problem of burning out your low slots.
Quote:
Rubbish its your tank that loses out if theres anything but EM against it the plug and plate does good against EM and great against all the others.
No, run the actual numbers.
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Childstar
Minmatar
Republic University
|
Posted - 2009.04.13 17:02:00 -
[1959]
Edited by: Childstar on 13/04/2009 17:05:33
Originally by: Goumindong
EM is just as likely a choice as EXP(or a mix) for missile users, remember you still have to go through an enemies shield.
Any missile user that uses EM dmg in gang combat is a fool as the gunnery ships will have stripped any shields of a target long before his missiles arrive....
Try harder.
Originally by: Childstar
Its not so limited compared to how long a ship maybe primaried, and wtf are you blathering on about "only on one ship" for we are talking about the available tank for the phoon.
Originally by: Goumindong
20 seconds is a long time compared to how long a ship might be primaried. If you're primaried for much longer than that[2 minutes], you run into the problem of burning out your low slots.
20 seconds is not so long if you factor lock time and RR although being primaried for 2 mins IS a long time.
Originally by: Childstar
Rubbish its your tank that loses out if theres anything but EM against it the plug and plate does good against EM and great against all the others.
Originally by: Goumindong
No, run the actual numbers.
I did and the eanm tank is a poor choice for gang combat as the coverage for the most used dmg type (thermal) is considerably lower, along with the fact that kinetic and explosive are also lower.
1. The most used dmg type is low on the eanm fit.
2. Two of the other dmg types are also lower.
Its quite simple really, i know you prefer to use fits when comparing dmg amounts that make lasers look worse than they actually are but as per usual when the facts are posted you fail.
Getting spanked in public by your own alliance is embarresing |
Atsuko Yamamoto
The Nietzian Way
|
Posted - 2009.04.13 19:30:00 -
[1960]
Originally by: Farjung
*Farjung appearance*
Not to derail the thread, though it could use it I think, but your videos are the reason I started to really get into EVE. Thank you
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Goumindong
Amarr
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.04.13 20:08:00 -
[1961]
Originally by: Childstar
20 seconds is not so long if you factor lock time
Quick question, do you play this game?
|
Childstar
Minmatar
Republic University
|
Posted - 2009.04.13 20:39:00 -
[1962]
Edited by: Childstar on 13/04/2009 20:40:55
Originally by: Goumindong
Originally by: Childstar
20 seconds is not so long if you factor lock time
Quick question, do you play this game?
More than you do, did, and in more ways than you have ever done.
The hardeners will be active any way so in the very worst case it will be 20 secs, in most cases shorter, along with the fact they will be getting RR'd.
And last but not least even without overheating they have slightly better resists against 3 dmg types one of them being the most used (thermal).
So if they are in trouble the eanm fit is in even worse trouble.
Getting spanked in public by your own alliance is embarresing |
Goumindong
Amarr
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.04.13 21:43:00 -
[1963]
I see you're not getting it.
You see, there is no way to tell whether or not you're going to be shot when you're being locked. If you're pre-firing your hardeners you risk killing them before they do any good. If you're not then you consigning yourself to the "no advantage" stage for the most important 20 seconds of your EHP(when you're not currently locked for RR)
Originally by: Childstar
The hardeners will be active any way so in the very worst case it will be 20 secs, in most cases shorter, along with the fact they will be getting RR'd.
Not for this fit(you don't have the CPU)
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Childstar
Minmatar
Republic University
|
Posted - 2009.04.14 09:48:00 -
[1964]
Originally by: Goumindong
I see you're not getting it.
You see, there is no way to tell whether or not you're going to be shot when you're being locked. If you're pre-firing your hardeners you risk killing them before they do any good. If you're not then you consigning yourself to the "no advantage" stage for the most important 20 seconds of your EHP(when you're not currently locked for RR)
No advantage works both ways and the hardener fit still has more EHP than the eanm fit on 3 resists.
Originally by: Goumindong
Not for this fit(you don't have the CPU)
Wrong again it has plenty.
Getting spanked in public by your own alliance is embarresing |
Goumindong
Amarr
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.04.14 12:14:00 -
[1965]
Originally by: Childstar
Wrong again it has plenty.
Not the last time i looked at it, what are you fitting on the thing?
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Childstar
Minmatar
Republic University
|
Posted - 2009.04.14 12:19:00 -
[1966]
Originally by: Goumindong
Originally by: Childstar
Wrong again it has plenty.
Not the last time i looked at it, what are you fitting on the thing?
The full fitting is in this thread, and why not post your fit that does not have enough CPU as proof.....oh thats right you made up the load of crap about fitting requirements cos you had no other argument.....
NoobmareX getting spanked in public by his own alliance. |
Prez21
coracao ardente
Triumvirate.
|
Posted - 2009.04.14 12:58:00 -
[1967]
Well this thread has clearly gone downhill for the last however many pages, i started reading the thread from about page 56 and its just been childish arguing between and alt who seems to talk alot and mock others expierences with blasters but wont post with his main or show proof that he has any knowledge or expierence flying any ships let alone blaster ships and nightmarex who seems to use sisi more than tq and doesnt seem to have much actualy tq expierence with blasters or lasrs, and comparing an abaddon vs a mega which realy hasnt got much to do with blasters and isnt realy a fair to compare those two ships anyway.
Yes blasters have poor range and are only used in certain circumstances and pulses give you quite alot more flexibilty and still pretty good dmg, but people who say blasters are worthless and no loner viable are just talking plain rubbish and most of the people who seem to be arguing in this thread have very little to any expierence actualy flying these ships and that counts more to me then people throwing random graphs and numbers at me. Blasters are still the number 1 short range weapon, taranis with blasters is a great ship and fun to fly, i think the brutix is a solid tier1 bc easily better than the cyclone, ferox and prophecy, i agreeing the deimos struggles slightly because it it doesnt have much of a tank and with the high usuage of neuts somtimes struggles but it is by no means useless, the megathron is still an awesome blaster ship, either in small gangs or big rr bs gangs yes i know people use rails abit now due to the short range of blasters but that is mostly in 0.0 which is better suited for rails than blaters but saying that blasters are still very common in rr bs fleets, the hyperion is and awesome solo bs and if used in the right hands ( dhb wildcat and darknesss do awesome with this ship) can be very effective solo or in small gangs.
Blasters are still very good to use and lots of fun, yes lasers seem to be number 1 at the minute but that hasnt always been the case and it seems its amarrs turn to be number 1, but that still doesnt take away fronm the fact that blasters are still a very solid weapon choice and just depends on peoples play styles and preferences, ive used megas in rr bs gangs and realy enjoyed it, ive used geddons and abaddons aswel and think there great ships, i still only use a pest for sniping which according to most people is a poor choice but i think its a great ship and what it lacks in some areas it excels in others which has saved me many times, but it seems this thread isnt about actual expierence and piloting skills but about numbers and possible scenarios which will never happen.
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.04.14 17:14:00 -
[1968]
Originally by: Prez21
i still only use a pest for sniping which according to most people is a poor choice but i think its a great ship and what it lacks in some areas it excels in others which has saved me many times
Yup, i did the same when i was in Tri, i was only using the Sniper Tempest then, because it's much much better than some of the whiners are saying it is.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Childstar
Minmatar
Republic University
|
Posted - 2009.04.14 17:27:00 -
[1969]
Originally by: Prez21
Well this thread has clearly gone downhill for the last however many pages, i started reading the thread from about page 56 and its just been childish arguing between and alt who seems to talk alot and mock others expierences with blasters but wont post with his main or show proof that he has any knowledge or expierence flying any ships let alone blaster ships
Well over 2k kills in all forms of pvp iuncluding blaster bs, AND I DID POST IN THIS THREAD WITH MY MAIN.
Originally by: Prez21
and comparing an abaddon vs a mega which realy hasnt got much to do with blasters and isnt realy a fair to compare those two ships anyway.
Both were claimed to be used in RR gangs or even BS gangs and both are readily available to each race, theres no issue with comparing them.
Originally by: Prez21
The megathron is still an awesome blaster ship, either in small gangs or big rr bs gangs yes i know people use rails abit now due to the short range of blasters but that is mostly in 0.0 which is better suited for rails than blasters but saying that blasters are still very common in rr bs fleets.
Blasters are used in empire in station ganks cos its the only thing they are really good for and maybe a bit in low sec although they are not so effective as other bs at that, but this is about their effectiveness and it is not in question they are being used less and less either cos ppl are cross training or cos they are using rails.
NoobmareX spankage |
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.04.14 17:35:00 -
[1970]
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: Prez21
The megathron is still an awesome blaster ship, either in small gangs or big rr bs gangs yes i know people use rails abit now due to the short range of blasters but that is mostly in 0.0 which is better suited for rails than blasters but saying that blasters are still very common in rr bs fleets.
Blasters are used in empire in station ganks cos its the only thing they are really good for and maybe a bit in low sec although they are not so effective as other bs at that, but this is about their effectiveness and it is not in question they are being used less and less either cos ppl are cross training or cos they are using rails.
Blaster BS'es are used everywhere in low sec and empire.
Those who say they are only used for station ganking is not playing EVE at all tbfh.
Even me that don't PVP much knows that.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
|
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Childstar
Minmatar
Republic University
|
Posted - 2009.04.14 17:54:00 -
[1971]
Edited by: Childstar on 14/04/2009 17:54:24
Originally by: NightmareX
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: Prez21
The megathron is still an awesome blaster ship, either in small gangs or big rr bs gangs yes i know people use rails abit now due to the short range of blasters but that is mostly in 0.0 which is better suited for rails than blasters but saying that blasters are still very common in rr bs fleets.
Blasters are used in empire in station ganks cos its the only thing they are really good for and maybe a bit in low sec although they are not so effective as other bs at that, but this is about their effectiveness and it is not in question they are being used less and less either cos ppl are cross training or cos they are using rails.
Blaster BS'es are used everywhere in low sec and empire.
Those who say they are only used for station ganking is not playing EVE at all tbfh.
Even me that don't PVP much knows that.
Learn to read, i highlighted the bits you ignored in your haste to troll.
NoobmareX spankage |
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.04.14 17:58:00 -
[1972]
Edited by: NightmareX on 14/04/2009 17:58:52
Originally by: Childstar
Edited by: Childstar on 14/04/2009 17:54:24
Originally by: NightmareX
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: Prez21
The megathron is still an awesome blaster ship, either in small gangs or big rr bs gangs yes i know people use rails abit now due to the short range of blasters but that is mostly in 0.0 which is better suited for rails than blasters but saying that blasters are still very common in rr bs fleets.
Blasters are used in empire in station ganks cos its the only thing they are really good for and maybe a bit in low sec although they are not so effective as other bs at that, but this is about their effectiveness and it is not in question they are being used less and less either cos ppl are cross training or cos they are using rails.
Blaster BS'es are used everywhere in low sec and empire.
Those who say they are only used for station ganking is not playing EVE at all tbfh.
Even me that don't PVP much knows that.
Learn to read, i highlighted the bits you ignored in your haste to troll.
Hmm, i have heard that Gallente players are rather going to Minmatar than to Amarr, because getting the status as FOTM noob is not something they want dude.
And players are rather training something that are going to get a boost soonÖ instead of training something that will most likely get a nerf.
Minmatar as they are today are pretty good.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Deadly Serpent
|
Posted - 2009.04.14 18:02:00 -
[1973]
For youe own good nightmarex shut up. I'm not the first one to say so and you should listen. You can't let it go but what you don't see is that you're humiliating yourself with every post.
Let this thread die.
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Childstar
Minmatar
Republic University
|
Posted - 2009.04.14 18:03:00 -
[1974]
Originally by: NightmareX
Hmm, i have heard that Gallente players are rather going to Minmatar than to Amarr, because getting the status as FOTM noob is not something they want dude.
Most are training amarr but im msure you may find a player or two cross training summat else for their own reasons and i highly doubt it for the one you claim for many of them.
Interesting attempt to change the subject after being proved wrong yet again btw.....
NoobmareX spankage |
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.04.14 18:04:00 -
[1975]
Originally by: Deadly Serpent
For youe own good nightmarex shut up. I'm not the first one to say so and you should listen. You can't let it go but what you don't see is that you're humiliating yourself with every post.
Let this thread die.
More alts to this topic please.
Remember, all of the alts here are Childstar / maralt's alts.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Childstar
Minmatar
Republic University
|
Posted - 2009.04.14 18:05:00 -
[1976]
Originally by: NightmareX
Originally by: Deadly Serpent
For youe own good nightmarex shut up. I'm not the first one to say so and you should listen. You can't let it go but what you don't see is that you're humiliating yourself with every post.
Let this thread die.
More alts to this topic please.
Remember, im a juvinille tool.
Fixed.
NoobmareX spankage |
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.04.14 18:06:00 -
[1977]
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: NightmareX
Hmm, i have heard that Gallente players are rather going to Minmatar than to Amarr, because getting the status as FOTM noob is not something they want dude.
Most are training amarr but im msure you may find a player or two cross training summat else for their own reasons and i highly doubt it for the one you claim for many of them.
Interesting attempt to change the subject after being proved wrong yet again btw.....
Yeah see, they have a REASON to train for something else than Amarr.
It's the same reason as players have a reason to use a Blaster Mega over an Abaddon, simply because for them, the Blaster Mega is much much better ship than the Abaddon is because of their play style.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Childstar
Minmatar
Republic University
|
Posted - 2009.04.14 18:08:00 -
[1978]
Originally by: NightmareX
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: NightmareX
Hmm, i have heard that Gallente players are rather going to Minmatar than to Amarr, because getting the status as FOTM noob is not something they want dude.
Most are training amarr but im msure you may find a player or two cross training summat else for their own reasons and i highly doubt it for the one you claim for many of them.
Interesting attempt to change the subject after being proved wrong yet again btw.....
Yeah see, they have a REASON to train for something else than Amarr.
It's the same reason as players have a reason to use a Blaster Mega over an Abaddon, simply because for them, the Blaster Mega is much much better ship than the Abaddon is because of their play style.
You have no idea how clueless you actually are and how stupid your arguments are.
This is not about the individual, or the station gankers ect, its about balancing a system with a problem, but all you can see is you and your cluless opinion on the matter.
Go away.
NoobmareX spankage |
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.04.14 18:12:00 -
[1979]
Edited by: NightmareX on 14/04/2009 18:15:34
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: NightmareX
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: NightmareX
Hmm, i have heard that Gallente players are rather going to Minmatar than to Amarr, because getting the status as FOTM noob is not something they want dude.
Most are training amarr but im msure you may find a player or two cross training summat else for their own reasons and i highly doubt it for the one you claim for many of them.
Interesting attempt to change the subject after being proved wrong yet again btw.....
Yeah see, they have a REASON to train for something else than Amarr.
It's the same reason as players have a reason to use a Blaster Mega over an Abaddon, simply because for them, the Blaster Mega is much much better ship than the Abaddon is because of their play style.
You have no idea how clueless you actually are and how stupid your arguments are.
This is not about the individual, or the station gankers ect, its about balancing a system with a problem, but all you can see is you and your cluless opinion on the matter.
Go away.
WORDS WOOOOOOOOOOORDS.
See, you can only whine and troll when you face some facts and how things are dude.
For you there is a problem with Blasters, but it doesn't mean CCP will change them only because some few on the EVE forum is saying the Blasters are poor.
The problem is more because the players are using the Blaster Mega totally wrong and have pretty much crap skills in the ship and weapons.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Childstar
Minmatar
Republic University
|
Posted - 2009.04.14 18:13:00 -
[1980]
Originally by: NightmareX
WORDS WOOOOOOOOOOORDS.
See, you can only whine and troll when you face some facts and how things are dude.
You do not post facts you post lies and clueless points.
Go away fool.
NoobmareX spankage |
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.04.14 18:15:00 -
[1981]
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: NightmareX
WORDS WOOOOOOOOOOORDS.
See, you can only whine and troll when you face some facts and how things are dude.
You do not post facts you post lies and clueless points.
Go away fool.
Wow, your whining is some really good facts i must say.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Childstar
Minmatar
Republic University
|
Posted - 2009.04.14 18:32:00 -
[1982]
Edited by: Childstar on 14/04/2009 18:32:14
Originally by: NightmareX
Anyways, as Prez are saying, and as i know he's very experienced in PVP, and as i have most likely been PVPing with him when i was in Tri, i will trust him over anyone else in this topic.
You only say that because his post can be twisted into summat its not, blasters still need fixing and nothing he says has not already been said.
You are so pathetic...like a little lost sheep looking for summat or somebody to follow because you have nothing of your own...
NoobmareX spankage |
Trader20
|
Posted - 2009.04.14 18:48:00 -
[1983]
Edited by: Trader20 on 14/04/2009 18:50:00
Child star - Abaddon or Apoc
Nightmarex - Hype or Mega
1st TEST: STATION FIGHT, One target waits outside while other target undocks and both will engage.
2nd TEST: GATE FIGHT, One target will wait on 0km on one side of gate while other targer jumps in, both will engage.
3rd TEST: BELT FIGHT, One will wait in belt while other target warps to 20km from target, both will engage
4th TEST: BELT FIGHT, One will wait in belt while other target warps to 0km from target, both will engage
Realistic scenarios (except that they're fighting solo )
Both tanks will be omni tanked (that means pretend you don't know what you will be going up against) and have 2 damage mods.
No warp outs, gate jumps, station docking, or backup.
I would recommend this happen on singlarity so you won't be bothered.
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.04.14 18:50:00 -
[1984]
Edited by: NightmareX on 14/04/2009 18:56:53
Originally by: Childstar
Edited by: Childstar on 14/04/2009 18:32:14
Originally by: NightmareX
Anyways, as Prez are saying, and as i know he's very experienced in PVP, and as i have most likely been PVPing with him when i was in Tri, i will trust him over anyone else in this topic.
You only say that because his post can be twisted into summat its not, blasters still need fixing and nothing he says has not already been said.
You are so pathetic...like a little lost sheep looking for summat or somebody to follow because you have nothing of your own...
Keep crying kid. You wont change the fact that Prez is totally right about what he's saying.
Originally by: Trader20
Edited by: Trader20 on 14/04/2009 18:50:00
Child star - Abaddon or Apoc
Nightmarex - Hype or Mega
1st TEST: STATION FIGHT, One target waits outside while other target undocks and both will engage.
2nd TEST: GATE FIGHT, One target will wait on 0km on one side of gate while other targer jumps in, both will engage.
3rd TEST: BELT FIGHT, One will wait in belt while other target warps to 20km from target, both will engage
4th TEST: BELT FIGHT, One will wait in belt while other target warps to 0km from target, both will engage
Realistic scenarios (except that they're fighting solo )
Both tanks will be omni tanked (that means pretend you don't know what you will be going up against) and have 2 damage mods.
No warp outs, gate jumps, station docking, or backup.
I would recommend this happen on singlarity so you won't be bothered.
I will gladly do it.
I can even be in a **** poor Tempest as many says it are LOLS and still but **** his Abaddon or Geddon's ass.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Childstar
Minmatar
Republic University
|
Posted - 2009.04.14 18:53:00 -
[1985]
Originally by: Trader20
Realistic scenarios (except that they're fighting solo )
No need to say anymore than that tbh.
NoobmareX spankage |
Trader20
|
Posted - 2009.04.14 18:59:00 -
[1986]
Edited by: Trader20 on 14/04/2009 19:00:24
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: Trader20
Realistic scenarios (except that they're fighting solo )
No need to say anymore than that tbh.
Nightmarex is up for it so if u think amarr bs are so good and blaster suck then prove it. Can you fly amarr bs yet?
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Childstar
Minmatar
Republic University
|
Posted - 2009.04.14 19:01:00 -
[1987]
Originally by: Trader20
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: Trader20
Realistic scenarios (except that they're fighting solo )
No need to say anymore than that tbh.
Nightmarex is up for it so if u think amarr bs are so good and blaster suck then prove it.
I test on sissi for realistic scenarios on TQ, yours is not...
NoobmareX spankage |
Trader20
|
Posted - 2009.04.14 19:04:00 -
[1988]
Edited by: Trader20 on 14/04/2009 19:05:01
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: Trader20
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: Trader20
Realistic scenarios (except that they're fighting solo )
No need to say anymore than that tbh.
Nightmarex is up for it so if u think amarr bs are so good and blaster suck then prove it.
I test on sissi for realistic scenarios on TQ, yours is not...
Why aren't they realistic, becasue they're solo? Your right, noone solos anymore but how else are you gonna see how two ships are balanced, by playing eft and playing the numbers game? I don't see what the big deal is if you think blasters are so sub par let nightx use them while u melt him/her with pulses.
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.04.14 19:07:00 -
[1989]
Edited by: NightmareX on 14/04/2009 19:07:12
I'm on Sisi right now sitting in my Neutron Mega ready to fight you Childstar.
If you don't log on sisi now and fight me, your a lying kid. If you not home, then we can take that later.
You have the chance to prove how your good your Abaddon is now. Just fit the Abaddon up with HG Slaves and t2 trimarks like you want.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Childstar
Minmatar
Republic University
|
Posted - 2009.04.14 19:08:00 -
[1990]
Originally by: Trader20
Originally by: Childstar
Nightmarex is up for it so if u think amarr bs are so good and blaster suck then prove it.
I test on sissi for realistic scenarios on TQ, yours is not...
Why aren't they realistic, becasue they're solo?
Yes.
Originally by: Trader20
Your right, noone solos anymore but how else are you gonna see how two ships are balanced, by playing eft and playing the numbers game?
Gang combat, and that is done a lot on TQ already and as has been pointed out in this thread most gallente players are using rails unless its empire ganking where the wardeck system can protect them from unknown entities an scenarios.
NoobmareX spankage |
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Trader20
|
Posted - 2009.04.14 19:12:00 -
[1991]
Edited by: Trader20 on 14/04/2009 19:14:33
Originally by: Childstar
Edited by: Childstar on 14/04/2009 19:08:57
Originally by: Trader20
Why aren't they realistic, becasue they're solo?
Correct.
Originally by: Trader20
Your right, noone solos anymore but how else are you gonna see how two ships are balanced, by playing eft and playing the numbers game?
Gang combat, and that is done a lot on TQ already and as has been pointed out in this thread most gallente players are using rails unless its empire ganking where the wardeck system can protect them from unknown entities an scenarios.
But the only way to see if two ships are balanced is to put them sided by side. Comeon , I'll be on to watch and make sure everything goes down fair. Nightmare is sittin on sisi right now and hes ready. I won't tell anyone who ur ur main is.
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Childstar
Minmatar
Republic University
|
Posted - 2009.04.14 19:14:00 -
[1992]
Originally by: Trader20
Originally by: Childstar
Edited by: Childstar on 14/04/2009 19:08:57
Originally by: Trader20
Why aren't they realistic, becasue they're solo?
Correct.
Originally by: Trader20
Your right, noone solos anymore but how else are you gonna see how two ships are balanced, by playing eft and playing the numbers game?
Gang combat, and that is done a lot on TQ already and as has been pointed out in this thread most gallente players are using rails unless its empire ganking where the wardeck system can protect them from unknown entities an scenarios.
But the only way to see if two ships are balanced is to put them sided by side. Comeon , I'll be on to watch and make sure everything goes down fair. Nightmare is sittin on tq right now and hes ready. I won't tell anyone who ur ur main is.
I have never denied who my main is in fact i have posted it when asked in other threads, and i have no interest in 1 v 1 BS sissi fights.
NoobmareX spankage |
Trader20
|
Posted - 2009.04.14 19:18:00 -
[1993]
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: Trader20
Originally by: Childstar
Edited by: Childstar on 14/04/2009 19:08:57
Originally by: Trader20
Why aren't they realistic, becasue they're solo?
Correct.
Originally by: Trader20
Your right, noone solos anymore but how else are you gonna see how two ships are balanced, by playing eft and playing the numbers game?
Gang combat, and that is done a lot on TQ already and as has been pointed out in this thread most gallente players are using rails unless its empire ganking where the wardeck system can protect them from unknown entities an scenarios.
But the only way to see if two ships are balanced is to put them sided by side. Comeon , I'll be on to watch and make sure everything goes down fair. Nightmare is sittin on tq right now and hes ready. I won't tell anyone who ur ur main is.
I have never denied who my main is in fact i have posted it when asked in other threads, and i have no interest in 1 v 1 BS sissi fights.
So all that sh*t talking and all that "pwning" u been doing to nightmare and you still won't fight him lol.
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.04.14 19:19:00 -
[1994]
Edited by: NightmareX on 14/04/2009 19:22:19
Originally by: Childstar
I have never denied who my main is in fact i have posted it when asked in other threads, and i have no interest in 1 v 1 BS sissi fights.
So when you are comparing the stats between the Abaddon and the Mega, then why can't we compare the 2 ships in a 1 vs 1 fight then?.
If your stats between those 2 ships tells you that the Abaddon is the best ship , then for sure i can say that you have to prove whos the best by letting those 2 ships have a fight to see what kind of ship that is strongest. Also the ship that survive longest posssible.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Childstar
Minmatar
Republic University
|
Posted - 2009.04.14 19:22:00 -
[1995]
Edited by: Childstar on 14/04/2009 19:22:51
Originally by: Trader20
So all that sh*t talking and all that "pwning" u been doing to nightmare and you still won't fight him lol.
I test on sissi for the sort of pvp available to the ships i fly on TQ, IF solo BS 1 v 1 pvp was a valid and reasonably available form of pvp on TQ i would have tested it and be flying the best BS for the job on TQ.
It would not be the mega or the abaddon in that case btw...
NoobmareX spankage |
Trader20
|
Posted - 2009.04.14 19:24:00 -
[1996]
Originally by: Childstar
Edited by: Childstar on 14/04/2009 19:22:51
Originally by: Trader20
So all that sh*t talking and all that "pwning" u been doing to nightmare and you still won't fight him lol.
I test on sissi for the sort of pvp available to the ships i fly on TQ, IF solo BS 1 v 1 pvp was a valid and reasonably available form of pvp on TQ i would have tested it and be flying the best BS for the job on TQ.
It would not be the mega or the abaddon in that case btw...
But your post are comparing mega/hype and apoc/abaddons 1v1 so do you want to back that up without eft?
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.04.14 19:33:00 -
[1997]
Edited by: NightmareX on 14/04/2009 19:34:09
Originally by: Childstar
Edited by: Childstar on 14/04/2009 19:32:12
Originally by: NightmareX
Well i rather take a real 1 vs 1 fight for more facts about how a ship perform over some numbers.
Get on sisi now, or you are proven to be a liar about the Abaddon.
1 v 1 on Sissi proves nothing, prove me wrong in gang combat on TQ or STFU.
Your numbers proves nothing either.
It only proves numbers. It doesn't proves how a ship perform in a real fight between each others.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Childstar
Minmatar
Republic University
|
Posted - 2009.04.14 19:35:00 -
[1998]
Edited by: Childstar on 14/04/2009 19:37:01
Originally by: NightmareX
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: NightmareX
Well i rather take a real 1 vs 1 fight for more facts about how a ship perform over some numbers.
Get on sisi now, or you are proven to be a liar about the Abaddon.
1 v 1 on Sissi proves nothing, prove me wrong in gang combat on TQ or STFU.
Your numbers proves nothing either.
It only proves numbers.
It doesn't proves how a ship is in a real fight between each others.
My numbers are absolute and undenyable, just like the abaddons longer range and greater tank they cannot be denied.
That is because 1 v 1 does not happen on TQ enough for it to be a valid test, and if it did happen a lot i would not be using a mega or a abaddon for 1 v 1 fighting in the first place.
NoobmareX spankage |
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.04.14 19:37:00 -
[1999]
Edited by: NightmareX on 14/04/2009 19:38:28
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: NightmareX
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: NightmareX
Well i rather take a real 1 vs 1 fight for more facts about how a ship perform over some numbers.
Get on sisi now, or you are proven to be a liar about the Abaddon.
1 v 1 on Sissi proves nothing, prove me wrong in gang combat on TQ or STFU.
Your numbers proves nothing either.
It only proves numbers. It doesn't proves how a ship is in a real fight between each others.
That is because 1 v 1 does not happen on TQ enough for it to be a valid test, and if it did i would not be using a mega or a abaddon.
It's a good enough test to see what ship that last longest possible.
If the Abaddon is as good as you say it is, then it really should pwn my Mega no matter what. Right?.
If you mean that, then prove it for me on Sisi.
Or are you bailing out and admitting that the Abaddon is not as good as you say it is?.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Traderboz
|
Posted - 2009.04.14 19:37:00 -
[2000]
How about Nightmare gets a gang of 10 buddies who can fly Mega's, Childstar do the same with Abaddons, and let them fight it out. :P Of course, you'll probably get hotdropped by about 10 different groups if the location is made public, but it'd be entertaining at least.
1v1's are silly though.
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Trader20
|
Posted - 2009.04.14 19:39:00 -
[2001]
Originally by: Childstar
Edited by: Childstar on 14/04/2009 19:30:57
No they are not, they are comparing, tanking and dmg ratios VS all dmg types including each others for gang combat.
In fact if you check the last discussion was about the typhoon and the better overall coverage it gets against ALL incoming damage types.
The ships i have used are the phoon, mega, hyperion, abaddon and a little about the geddon but not a lot tbh, and how they perform in gang combat relative to each other.
Originally by: Trader20
Keep backing down and nightmare might have to put these posts "childstar spankage" on his sig
I will NEVER get into a 1 v 1 BS fight as a way to decide a issue about gang combat, if you think that is losing the argument then you are more niave than he is.
I know theres no more 1v1 on tq but, for testing purposes and to back up your own data you worked so hard to get, just prove to nightmarex and everyone else how gimped blasters are. By declining you are saying that your info is wrong and nightmarex is right.
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Childstar
Minmatar
Republic University
|
Posted - 2009.04.14 19:39:00 -
[2002]
I will NEVER use 1 v 1 BS fights on sissi to give any data concerning gang combat on TQ.
NoobmareX spankage |
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.04.14 19:40:00 -
[2003]
Originally by: Traderboz
How about Nightmare gets a gang of 10 buddies who can fly Mega's, Childstar do the same with Abaddons, and let them fight it out. :P Of course, you'll probably get hotdropped by about 10 different groups if the location is made public, but it'd be entertaining at least.
1v1's are silly though.
I'll guess that wont be a problem to do as there is over 70 in local in FD- now.
So i'm up for that to.
Childstar, you up for that?.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.04.14 19:40:00 -
[2004]
Edited by: NightmareX on 14/04/2009 19:41:39
Originally by: Childstar
I will NEVER use 1 v 1 BS fights on sissi to give any data concerning gang combat on TQ.
LOL, then you can't just compare 2 ships to each others from EFT numbers either, because it's not showing how ships is in real TQ combat.
.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Childstar
Minmatar
Republic University
|
Posted - 2009.04.14 19:42:00 -
[2005]
Originally by: Trader20
I know theres no more 1v1 on tq but, for testing purposes and to back up your own data you worked so hard to get, just prove to nightmarex and everyone else how gimped blasters are. By declining you are saying that your info is wrong and nightmarex is right.
If you feel that is what not doing 1 v 1 on sissi does then you are as stupid as he is.
Get a 20 vs 20 mixed gang fight together and il reconsider.
NoobmareX spankage |
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.04.14 19:44:00 -
[2006]
Edited by: NightmareX on 14/04/2009 19:45:34
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: Trader20
I know theres no more 1v1 on tq but, for testing purposes and to back up your own data you worked so hard to get, just prove to nightmarex and everyone else how gimped blasters are. By declining you are saying that your info is wrong and nightmarex is right.
If you feel that is what not doing 1 v 1 on sissi does then you are as stupid as he is.
Get a 20 vs 20 mixed gang fight together and il reconsider.
10 vs 10 gangs is more likely to happen now when you take the 70 peoples in local now into the picture.
If there had been over 140 like it have been earlier, then it would be possible to do.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Childstar
Minmatar
Republic University
|
Posted - 2009.04.14 19:45:00 -
[2007]
Originally by: NightmareX
Edited by: NightmareX on 14/04/2009 19:41:39
Originally by: Childstar
I will NEVER use 1 v 1 BS fights on sissi to give any data concerning gang combat on TQ.
LOL, then you can't just compare 2 ships to each others from EFT numbers either, because it's not showing how ships is in real TQ combat.
.
I used EFT to show that the comments "30% more dmg from blasters" comments were totally wrong, and that the mega has a weak and holed tank, these facts are undenyable and DO effect it in gang combat along with its range for high dmg.
NoobmareX spankage |
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.04.14 19:46:00 -
[2008]
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: NightmareX
Edited by: NightmareX on 14/04/2009 19:41:39
Originally by: Childstar
I will NEVER use 1 v 1 BS fights on sissi to give any data concerning gang combat on TQ.
LOL, then you can't just compare 2 ships to each others from EFT numbers either, because it's not showing how ships is in real TQ combat.
.
I used EFT to show that the comments "30% more dmg from blasters" comments were totally wrong, and that the mega has a weak and holed tank, these facts are undenyable and DO effect it in gang combat along with its range for high dmg.
EFT still doesn't prove anything on how things are for real on TQ combats tbh.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Childstar
Minmatar
Republic University
|
Posted - 2009.04.14 19:48:00 -
[2009]
Originally by: NightmareX
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: NightmareX
Edited by: NightmareX on 14/04/2009 19:41:39
Originally by: Childstar
I will NEVER use 1 v 1 BS fights on sissi to give any data concerning gang combat on TQ.
LOL, then you can't just compare 2 ships to each others from EFT numbers either, because it's not showing how ships is in real TQ combat.
.
I used EFT to show that the comments "30% more dmg from blasters" comments were totally wrong, and that the mega has a weak and holed tank, these facts are undenyable and DO effect it in gang combat along with its range for high dmg.
EFT still doesn't prove anything on how things are for real on TQ combats tbh.
That is why there are so many blaster BS pilots in this thread agreeing with me and even those who do not fully agree clearly say that blaster BS are very limited.
NoobmareX spankage |
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.04.14 19:52:00 -
[2010]
Originally by: Childstar
That is why there are so many blaster BS pilots in this thread agreeing with me and even those who do not fully agree clearly say that blaster BS are very limited.
Yeah and all of those others in this topic is all of your 4378967348978439 alts right, like you admitted earlier that you have a butt load of alts.
And that's why i agree with Prez from Tri about how things are. And why i don't agree with your useless EFT numbers. One pilot i know is more worth than 10000000 alts FYI.
Alright, last time i ask, do you want a 1 vs 1 or 10 vs 10 fight on Sisi now, or are you clearly admitting that your lying all the time?.
I really hope you take this fight.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
|
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Kane Starkiller
|
Posted - 2009.04.14 19:56:00 -
[2011]
why is the mega being compared to the abaddon? abaddon is a tier 3, therefore it's gallatine counterpart is the hyperion. do you guys even play this game at all?
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Childstar
Minmatar
Republic University
|
Posted - 2009.04.14 19:56:00 -
[2012]
Originally by: NightmareX
Originally by: Childstar
That is why there are so many blaster BS pilots in this thread agreeing with me and even those who do not fully agree clearly say that blaster BS are very limited.
Yeah and all of those others in this topic is all of your 4378967348978439 alts right, like you admitted earlier that you have a butt load of alts.
And that's why i agree with Prez from Tri about how things are. And why i don't agree with your useless EFT numbers. One pilot i know is more worth than 10000000 alts FYI.
Alright, last time i ask, do you want a 1 vs 1 or 10 vs 10 fight on Sisi now, or are you clearly admitting that your lying all the time?.
I really hope you take this fight.
Alot of the blaster pilots in this thread are mains with a lot more kills than you, and a lot of blaster BS experiance.
Il do a 20 vs 20 mixed gang BS fight, RR or not.
And you are the one who lies a lot, theres plenty of examples of it in this thread.
NoobmareX spankage |
Childstar
Minmatar
Republic University
|
Posted - 2009.04.14 19:58:00 -
[2013]
Edited by: Childstar on 14/04/2009 20:00:31
Originally by: Kane Starkiller
why is the mega being compared to the abaddon? abaddon is a tier 3, therefore it's gallatine counterpart is the hyperion. do you guys even play this game at all?
So if you are flying on TQ you are immune to a abaddon if your in a tier 2 ships?.
But hey if you wanna fit out a hyperion for passive tank RR (the most popular BS fit) go ahead we can compare that to the abaddon if you like...
Its about available ships pal, tiers mean nothing.
Unless you think that the apoc should not be allowed to be compared as a sniper cos of the rokh.................
NoobmareX spankage |
Trader20
|
Posted - 2009.04.14 20:00:00 -
[2014]
Originally by: Childstar
Edited by: Childstar on 14/04/2009 19:37:01
Originally by: NightmareX
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: NightmareX
Well i rather take a real 1 vs 1 fight for more facts about how a ship perform over some numbers.
Get on sisi now, or you are proven to be a liar about the Abaddon.
1 v 1 on Sissi proves nothing, prove me wrong in gang combat on TQ or STFU.
Your numbers proves nothing either.
It only proves numbers.
It doesn't proves how a ship is in a real fight between each others.
My numbers are absolute and undenyable, just like the abaddons longer range and greater tank they cannot be denied.
That is because 1 v 1 does not happen on TQ enough for it to be a valid test, and if it did happen a lot i would not be using a mega or a abaddon for 1 v 1 fighting in the first place.
Valid test? Testing your numbers you have been giving us the last 60 pages is not valid because......?
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NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.04.14 20:00:00 -
[2015]
Originally by: Kane Starkiller
why is the mega being compared to the abaddon? abaddon is a tier 3, therefore it's gallatine counterpart is the hyperion. do you guys even play this game at all?
I have told that all the time to Child, but he don't care lol.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Trader20
|
Posted - 2009.04.14 20:01:00 -
[2016]
Edited by: Trader20 on 14/04/2009 20:02:34
Still waiting on sissi........
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Childstar
Minmatar
Republic University
|
Posted - 2009.04.14 20:04:00 -
[2017]
Originally by: Trader20
Valid test? Testing your numbers you have been giving us the last 60 pages is not valid because......?
Gang combat is not anything like 1 v 1.
What part of that do you not understand?.....am i not saying it right or summat?
What if i fit out a pimped neut or nos domi and use that against the abad or the mega will that mean both lasers and blasters suck?.....1 v 1 means nothing.
NoobmareX spankage |
Childstar
Minmatar
Republic University
|
Posted - 2009.04.14 20:05:00 -
[2018]
Originally by: Trader20
Still waiting on sissi........
Dont hold your breath.
NoobmareX spankage |
Trader20
|
Posted - 2009.04.14 20:06:00 -
[2019]
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: Trader20
Valid test? Testing your numbers you have been giving us the last 60 pages is not valid because......?
Gang combat is not anything like 1 v 1.
What part of that do you not understand?.....am i not saying it right or summat?
What if i fit out a pimped neut or nos domi and use that against the abad or the mega will that mean both lasers and blasters suck?.....1 v 1 means nothing.
Then your numbers mean nothing because you didn't account for other variables (nos/nuets/td/painter/blobs)
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Trader20
|
Posted - 2009.04.14 20:08:00 -
[2020]
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: Trader20
Still waiting on sissi........
Dont hold your breath.
Lol, so you're
A. Scared
B. Not near a computer (your typing on the forums)
C. Don't have the time (Should only take 30 min)
D. You don't have Test server installed (only take 10 min)
So looks like your just scared
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Childstar
Minmatar
Republic University
|
Posted - 2009.04.14 20:11:00 -
[2021]
Edited by: Childstar on 14/04/2009 20:16:11
Originally by: Trader20
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: Trader20
Valid test? Testing your numbers you have been giving us the last 60 pages is not valid because......?
Gang combat is not anything like 1 v 1.
What part of that do you not understand?.....am i not saying it right or summat?
What if i fit out a pimped neut or nos domi and use that against the abad or the mega will that mean both lasers and blasters suck?.....1 v 1 means nothing.
Then your numbers mean nothing because you didn't account for other variables (nos/nuets/td/painter/blobs)
They mean exactly what they did before, they are unchangable the variables they face are.
40K more ehp is 40k more ehp.
Higher resists are higher resists.
And greater rqange is greater range.
None of these stats change because of what a ship may face on TQ, if my gang gets neuted, nos'd, td'd or painted blobbed i still have the same ehp, resists and range. If im in the mega i get less if im in the abaddon i get more, the external things that are faced do not change these things.
NoobmareX spankage |
Childstar
Minmatar
Republic University
|
Posted - 2009.04.14 20:13:00 -
[2022]
Originally by: Trader20
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: Trader20
Still waiting on sissi........
Dont hold your breath.
Lol, so you're
A. Scared
B. Not near a computer (your typing on the forums)
C. Don't have the time (Should only take 30 min)
D. You don't have Test server installed (only take 10 min)
So looks like your just scared
A. Im not scared.
B. i am on my pc.
C. i do have the time
D. i do have sissi installed.
E. i do not waste my time on pointless sissi warrioring i only use it for valid testing.
Answer = E.
But you can believe what you wish.
NoobmareX spankage |
NightmareX
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.04.14 20:16:00 -
[2023]
Originally by: Childstar
E. i do not waste my time on pointless sissi warrioring i only use it for valid testing.
Answer = E.
But you can believe what you wish.
But then, do not waste our time with your EFT stats then we can say then.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
The Djego
Minmatar
Hellequin Inc.
|
Posted - 2009.04.14 20:20:00 -
[2024]
Originally by: Prez21
stuff
Fair point.
I think I raised the Abaddon vs Mega in the start as example how range/DPS/EHP works out ingame. If you think comparing a Tier 2 with a Tier 3 BS is unfair, it mostly works out the same with a Gedon, a Tier 1 BS. I basicly just wanted to illustrate that the bigger DPS arn¦t everything in real TQ combat in the end and even the ship with the higher number will lose because of of other disadvantages.
I personaly don¦t like the RR Gang role of Blasterships, that could be done by Amarr BS equaly well(better in some scenarios, worse in others but ballenced if you look at standard TQ engatements).
I commented somewhere in this thread allready why the Taranis is quite a good Blaster ship. Brutix is a good Blaster ship not because it is a good blaster ship but because the Myrmidon isn¦t a Blaster ship. Cyclone, Ferox and Prophecy(ok a bit) arn¦t this bad actualy, I even had to disengage against one Prphecy since I run out of Cap Boosters in the Brutix and wasn¦t even close to break him.
I think my hands would be also quite good for a Hype(maxed skills)but still I prefere the Mega. Hype works against people that lack real DPS(1.5k+) and Neuts you will be suprised when a well fitted Mega meets a Hype(without fancy Reppers and Combat boosters it tends to go down first)...
I would like to disagree on the "Blasters are still a lot of fun" they aren¦t to me(after maxing them out). They lack here push thrue power and her advantage in web range(mostly because of the weaker Webs). I don¦t give a **** on FOTM, blaster ships wasn¦t FOTM the last 2 years, yet they dominated Web range and where able to hit real hard at her range. I personly want this back, this was the reason I chosen this style of combat and this made them diffrent to any other Ship in eve.
----
Nerf Tank - Boost Gank!
Originally by: Amantus
Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
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Childstar
Minmatar
Republic University
|
Posted - 2009.04.14 20:21:00 -
[2025]
Originally by: Trader20
So that 50k more ehp, higher resist, and greater range will crush that mega nightmarex is flying so.....why not fight him. Comparing two ships while in a gang is uselesss because the other ships will compensate for the ships abilities (rr, cap transfers, etc). Theres nothing wrong with TESTING ships 1v1 even though it doesn't happen in pvp alot.
WAKE UP.
IT IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.
Comparing the ships while in gangs is the only valid test because that is how they are used.
NoobmareX spankage |
Traderboz
|
Posted - 2009.04.14 20:21:00 -
[2026]
1v1 SiSi duels prove nothing about balance. It makes a convenient ploy to draw attention away from gang performance and statistics, but it has nothing to do with realistic combat. Why? Because you don't find BS 1v1's on Tranq other than staged duels and the rarest of chance encounters.
If a Mega could win a 1v1, does that mean it's a great RR gang ship? How about this, an active tanked Maelstrom could make a great 1v1 ship to fight against an Abaddon. Does that mean it's a great RR gang ship? Does it mean anything other than it's good at fighting unrealistic 1v1's?
Honestly this is just a sad joke. You claim you don't have the time to play this game with your own alliance, but you do have time to sit on SiSi and throw your epeen around on the forums challenging people to SiSi duels? You don't see absurdity in that?
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Childstar
Minmatar
Republic University
|
Posted - 2009.04.14 20:23:00 -
[2027]
Originally by: Traderboz
1v1 SiSi duels prove nothing about balance. It makes a convenient ploy to draw attention away from gang performance and statistics, but it has nothing to do with realistic combat. Why? Because you don't find BS 1v1's on Tranq other than staged duels and the rarest of chance encounters.
If a Mega could win a 1v1, does that mean it's a great RR gang ship? How about this, an active tanked Maelstrom could make a great 1v1 ship to fight against an Abaddon. Does that mean it's a great RR gang ship? Does it mean anything other than it's good at fighting unrealistic 1v1's?
Honestly this is just a sad joke. You claim you don't have the time to play this game with your own alliance, but you do have time to sit on SiSi and throw your epeen around on the forums challenging people to SiSi duels? You don't see absurdity in that?
THIS.
NoobmareX spankage |
Trader20
|
Posted - 2009.04.14 20:25:00 -
[2028]
Edited by: Trader20 on 14/04/2009 20:26:29
Originally by: Traderboz
1v1 SiSi duels prove nothing about balance. It makes a convenient ploy to draw attention away from gang performance and statistics, but it has nothing to do with realistic combat. Why? Because you don't find BS 1v1's on Tranq other than staged duels and the rarest of chance encounters.
If a Mega could win a 1v1, does that mean it's a great RR gang ship? How about this, an active tanked Maelstrom could make a great 1v1 ship to fight against an Abaddon. Does that mean it's a great RR gang ship? Does it mean anything other than it's good at fighting unrealistic 1v1's?
Honestly this is just a sad joke. You claim you don't have the time to play this game with your own alliance, but you do have time to sit on SiSi and throw your epeen around on the forums challenging people to SiSi duels? You don't see absurdity in that?
....hes comparing pulses and blasters in eft for 1v1 so to back up his data you would fight 1v1, I don't care if it doesnt happen on tq, hes comparing 1v1.
Now if he wants to start talking about how those ships preform in gangs that different. Also he already turned down a 10vs10, hes obviously afraid or can't fly past a t1 frig
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Trader20
|
Posted - 2009.04.14 20:26:00 -
[2029]
Originally by: Traderboz
1v1 SiSi duels prove nothing about balance. It makes a convenient ploy to draw attention away from gang performance and statistics, but it has nothing to do with realistic combat. Why? Because you don't find BS 1v1's on Tranq other than staged duels and the rarest of chance encounters.
If a Mega could win a 1v1, does that mean it's a great RR gang ship? How about this, an active tanked Maelstrom could make a great 1v1 ship to fight against an Abaddon. Does that mean it's a great RR gang ship? Does it mean anything other than it's good at fighting unrealistic 1v1's?
Honestly this is just a sad joke. You claim you don't have the time to play this game with your own alliance, but you do have time to sit on SiSi and throw your epeen around on the forums challenging people to SiSi duels? You don't see absurdity in that?
Nope but I see the absurdity to ppl wimping out to a simple duel
|
Childstar
Minmatar
Republic University
|
Posted - 2009.04.14 20:29:00 -
[2030]
Originally by: Trader20
Originally by: Traderboz
1v1 SiSi duels prove nothing about balance. It makes a convenient ploy to draw attention away from gang performance and statistics, but it has nothing to do with realistic combat. Why? Because you don't find BS 1v1's on Tranq other than staged duels and the rarest of chance encounters.
If a Mega could win a 1v1, does that mean it's a great RR gang ship? How about this, an active tanked Maelstrom could make a great 1v1 ship to fight against an Abaddon. Does that mean it's a great RR gang ship? Does it mean anything other than it's good at fighting unrealistic 1v1's?
Honestly this is just a sad joke. You claim you don't have the time to play this game with your own alliance, but you do have time to sit on SiSi and throw your epeen around on the forums challenging people to SiSi duels? You don't see absurdity in that?
....hes comparing pulses and blasters in eft for 1v1 so to back up his data you would fight 1v1, I don't care if it doesnt happen on tq, hes comparing 1v1.
Now if he wants to start talking about how those ships preform in gangs that different. Also he already turned down a 10vs10, hes obviously afraid or can't fly pat a t1 frig
I did not compare the ships in 1 v 1 i compared them and their stats in gang scenarios, IE: EHP, range, dmg even the cap used by blasters due to approaching MULTIPLE targets....how is that 1 v 1?.
And im willing to take part in gang fighting and i clearly said so.
I suggest you read back.
NoobmareX spankage |
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Childstar
Minmatar
Republic University
|
Posted - 2009.04.14 20:31:00 -
[2031]
Edited by: Childstar on 14/04/2009 20:31:23
Originally by: Trader20
Originally by: Traderboz
1v1 SiSi duels prove nothing about balance. It makes a convenient ploy to draw attention away from gang performance and statistics, but it has nothing to do with realistic combat. Why? Because you don't find BS 1v1's on Tranq other than staged duels and the rarest of chance encounters.
If a Mega could win a 1v1, does that mean it's a great RR gang ship? How about this, an active tanked Maelstrom could make a great 1v1 ship to fight against an Abaddon. Does that mean it's a great RR gang ship? Does it mean anything other than it's good at fighting unrealistic 1v1's?
Honestly this is just a sad joke. You claim you don't have the time to play this game with your own alliance, but you do have time to sit on SiSi and throw your epeen around on the forums challenging people to SiSi duels? You don't see absurdity in that?
Nope but I see the absurdity to ppl wimping out to a simple duel
Thats because you are the one trying to derail the topic with a pointless 1 v 1 fight in ships that would not be used for 1 v 1 even if BS had such things available on TQ....
NoobmareX spankage |
Trader20
|
Posted - 2009.04.14 20:31:00 -
[2032]
Edited by: Trader20 on 14/04/2009 20:31:21
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: Trader20
Originally by: Traderboz
1v1 SiSi duels prove nothing about balance. It makes a convenient ploy to draw attention away from gang performance and statistics, but it has nothing to do with realistic combat. Why? Because you don't find BS 1v1's on Tranq other than staged duels and the rarest of chance encounters.
If a Mega could win a 1v1, does that mean it's a great RR gang ship? How about this, an active tanked Maelstrom could make a great 1v1 ship to fight against an Abaddon. Does that mean it's a great RR gang ship? Does it mean anything other than it's good at fighting unrealistic 1v1's?
Honestly this is just a sad joke. You claim you don't have the time to play this game with your own alliance, but you do have time to sit on SiSi and throw your epeen around on the forums challenging people to SiSi duels? You don't see absurdity in that?
....hes comparing pulses and blasters in eft for 1v1 so to back up his data you would fight 1v1, I don't care if it doesnt happen on tq, hes comparing 1v1.
Now if he wants to start talking about how those ships preform in gangs that different. Also he already turned down a 10vs10, hes obviously afraid or can't fly pat a t1 frig
I did not compare the ships in 1 v 1 i compared them and their stats in gang scenarios, IE: EHP, range, dmg even the cap used by blasters due to approaching MULTIPLE targets....how is that 1 v 1?.
And im willing to take part in gang fighting and i clearly said so.
I suggest you read back.
kk hop on sissi and well get a gang goin
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Childstar
Minmatar
Republic University
|
Posted - 2009.04.14 20:33:00 -
[2033]
Originally by: Trader20
Edited by: Trader20 on 14/04/2009 20:31:21
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: Trader20
Originally by: Traderboz
1v1 SiSi duels prove nothing about balance. It makes a convenient ploy to draw attention away from gang performance and statistics, but it has nothing to do with realistic combat. Why? Because you don't find BS 1v1's on Tranq other than staged duels and the rarest of chance encounters.
If a Mega could win a 1v1, does that mean it's a great RR gang ship? How about this, an active tanked Maelstrom could make a great 1v1 ship to fight against an Abaddon. Does that mean it's a great RR gang ship? Does it mean anything other than it's good at fighting unrealistic 1v1's?
Honestly this is just a sad joke. You claim you don't have the time to play this game with your own alliance, but you do have time to sit on SiSi and throw your epeen around on the forums challenging people to SiSi duels? You don't see absurdity in that?
....hes comparing pulses and blasters in eft for 1v1 so to back up his data you would fight 1v1, I don't care if it doesnt happen on tq, hes comparing 1v1.
Now if he wants to start talking about how those ships preform in gangs that different. Also he already turned down a 10vs10, hes obviously afraid or can't fly pat a t1 frig
I did not compare the ships in 1 v 1 i compared them and their stats in gang scenarios, IE: EHP, range, dmg even the cap used by blasters due to approaching MULTIPLE targets....how is that 1 v 1?.
And im willing to take part in gang fighting and i clearly said so.
I suggest you read back.
kk hop on sissi and well get a gang goin
I said id take part im not spending hours trying to get 2 opposing BS gangs together, you want it you set it up and call me when your ready.
NoobmareX spankage |
RustyPwnStar
|
Posted - 2009.04.14 20:41:00 -
[2034]
How do we know, that what ever gang ends up on Childstars side, will be fair and above board?
NightmareX spends alot of time on sisi, who's to say he won't have friends in the right places.
Just being a neutral observer here.
|
Childstar
Minmatar
Republic University
|
Posted - 2009.04.14 20:44:00 -
[2035]
Originally by: RustyPwnStar
How do we know, that what ever gang ends up on Childstars side, will be fair and above board?
NightmareX spends alot of time on sisi, who's to say he won't have friends in the right places.
Just being a neutral observer here.
Good point tbh.
How about he just logs into TQ and gets in a mega and pvp's with his alliance instead....oooops thats right they use rails....
NoobmareX spankage |
Tyrkisk Peber
Minmatar
Republic University
|
Posted - 2009.04.14 20:57:00 -
[2036]
Edited by: Tyrkisk Peber on 14/04/2009 21:03:53
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: RustyPwnStar
How do we know, that what ever gang ends up on Childstars side, will be fair and above board?
NightmareX spends alot of time on sisi, who's to say he won't have friends in the right places.
Just being a neutral observer here.
Good point tbh.
How about he just logs into TQ and gets in a mega and pvp's with his alliance instead....oooops thats right they use rails....
Yeah it's a very good point to if you take the fight with NightmareX, just to see what ship that IS the strongest ship. You know, EFT doesn't tell you how strong each ships are in real TQ fights anyways though. That's what i have been learned to understand.
I'm new to this game, and after what i have been reading, i think Gallente or Minmatar will be the right race for me to train for.
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Trader20
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Posted - 2009.04.14 21:17:00 -
[2037]
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: RustyPwnStar
How do we know, that what ever gang ends up on Childstars side, will be fair and above board?
NightmareX spends alot of time on sisi, who's to say he won't have friends in the right places.
Just being a neutral observer here.
Good point tbh.
How about he just logs into TQ and gets in a mega and pvp's with his alliance instead....oooops thats right they use rails....
lol At least nightmarex would fight
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Tyrkisk Peber
Minmatar
Republic University
|
Posted - 2009.04.14 21:29:00 -
[2038]
Edited by: Tyrkisk Peber on 14/04/2009 21:31:02
Originally by: Trader20
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: RustyPwnStar
How do we know, that what ever gang ends up on Childstars side, will be fair and above board?
NightmareX spends alot of time on sisi, who's to say he won't have friends in the right places.
Just being a neutral observer here.
Good point tbh.
How about he just logs into TQ and gets in a mega and pvp's with his alliance instead....oooops thats right they use rails....
lol At least nightmarex would fight
Not only that, he could then at least show his skills with the Blaster Mega to. Rather than just saying he's good with it.
Specially if this is in the 10 vs 10 fight he could do on Sisi.
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RustyPwnStar
|
Posted - 2009.04.14 22:33:00 -
[2039]
Edited by: RustyPwnStar on 14/04/2009 22:34:04
Originally by: Trader20
lol At least nightmarex would fight
Yea he might well fight, but I'm not sure what it would prove.
I've read the thread (OMG I'll never get that time back) and I've not seen Childstar compare 1v1 situations, but mostly gang and RR situations.
He's given stats on ships, fittings and damage, but comparing stats doesn't mean 1v1.
Now I'm not even sure his stats are correct, but I don't see the picture you've painted.
But as I said, how do we know the fight on sisi is all above board? I personally don't trust anyone but close friends on eve.
I certainly don't trust anyone in this thread to arrange a fight on sisi. (if it was for me)
One final thing, before I leave this threadnaught.
Now I understand the need to test, but..
Don't you find it somewhat odd, that some here, seem to spend more time on sisi than on TQ?
After all, isn't TQ what EvE is all about?
How do you get the same thrill of success and failure on sisi?
You don't, surly?
Edit: Grammer.
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Karezan
|
Posted - 2009.04.15 02:30:00 -
[2040]
Originally by: Kane Starkiller
why is the mega being compared to the abaddon? abaddon is a tier 3, therefore it's gallatine counterpart is the hyperion. do you guys even play this game at all?
There's just this rumor I heard, but people don't have to use exact counterparts in gangs.
If you're a scrub and flying a T1 fit T1 ship, that doesn't mean someone flying a T2 fit T2 ship will just fly by and let you go.
You fly whichever BS is best, it doesn't matter which tier that is, and any attempt at saying you need to compare them tier for tier is just a very poor attempt at derailing the real issue at hand. Next you're gonna tell me Caldari need some serious buffing because they do not have a sniper BS platform at all, given that the other race's sniper BS are tier 2. Clearly this is a grave issue that needs to be fixed, oh wait they did with their tier 3 ship, too bad it doesn't count and cannot ever be used to compare, so they're stuck unable to snipe at all.
After insurance, the the loss is around the same anyway.
As for all the sisi warrioring, do you guys actually play on TQ as well? Sisi is pretty much useless except for very specific types of testing. When you fly a poor gang ship on TQ and keep getting blown up, you figure out how to improve on that (ie fit rails) because it's getting expensive to keep blowing up. When you fly a poor gang ship on sisi and get blown up, you dock and grab one of the other 50000 ships you bought for 100 isk. Congratulations, you just managed to completely skip a vital part of this game.
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lecrotta
Minmatar
lecrotta Corp
|
Posted - 2009.04.15 09:59:00 -
[2041]
Originally by: Tyrkisk Peber
Edited by: Tyrkisk Peber on 14/04/2009 21:31:02
Originally by: Trader20
Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: RustyPwnStar
How do we know, that what ever gang ends up on Childstars side, will be fair and above board?
NightmareX spends alot of time on sisi, who's to say he won't have friends in the right places.
Just being a neutral observer here.
Good point tbh.
How about he just logs into TQ and gets in a mega and pvp's with his alliance instead....oooops thats right they use rails....
lol At least nightmarex would fight
Not only that, he could then at least show his skills with the Blaster Mega to. Rather than just saying he's good with it.
Specially if this is in the 10 vs 10 fight he could do on Sisi.
I said id fight, if you did not bother to put the gangs together or get the ppl thats your problem not mine.
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Prez21
coracao ardente
Triumvirate.
|
Posted - 2009.04.15 11:05:00 -
[2042]
Originally by: Karezan
Originally by: Kane Starkiller
why is the mega being compared to the abaddon? abaddon is a tier 3, therefore it's gallatine counterpart is the hyperion. do you guys even play this game at all?
bleh
Yes people do fly different ship types in gang well observed, but that doesnt mean you can balance blasters used on a tier 2 ship against pulses used on a tier 3 pulse ship can you, that would be just stupid, or maybe we should start balancing things based on tech1 hulls vs tech2 hulls. This thread should be about blasters and how they perform not which bs is the best for rr and trying to balance of that.
As for comparing the caldari sniping situation, you do know cruise missiles are long range so caldari do have a snipe bs at tier 2 its just ppl wanted insta sniping dmg and not delayed dmg so your argument there was kinda flawed and not thought out.
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lecrotta
Minmatar
lecrotta Corp
|
Posted - 2009.04.15 11:22:00 -
[2043]
Edited by: lecrotta on 15/04/2009 11:24:37
Originally by: Prez21
Originally by: Karezan
Originally by: Kane Starkiller
why is the mega being compared to the abaddon? abaddon is a tier 3, therefore it's gallatine counterpart is the hyperion. do you guys even play this game at all?
bleh
Yes people do fly different ship types in gang well observed, but that doesnt mean you can balance blasters used on a tier 2 ship against pulses used on a tier 3 pulse ship can you, that would be just stupid, or maybe we should start balancing things based on tech1 hulls vs tech2 hulls. This thread should be about blasters and how they perform not which bs is the best for rr and trying to balance of that.
As for comparing the caldari sniping situation, you do know cruise missiles are long range so caldari do have a snipe bs at tier 2 its just ppl wanted insta sniping dmg and not delayed dmg so your argument there was kinda flawed and not thought out.
You compare the available ships and fits that are most suited for the role.
Now if you wanna post a RR BS fit using the hyperion go ahead but unless its better than the mega ppl will still use the mega for the role. Should we say the apoc is not a good example of sniper ship and should not be used just because of the rokh?.
Its NOTHING like comparing T1 to T2 or we would be using the marauders in the comparisons as they are the T2 BS.
You use the best T1 BS for the specific job intended no matter the tier.
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Prez21
coracao ardente
Triumvirate.
|
Posted - 2009.04.15 12:00:00 -
[2044]
Originally by: lecrotta
Edited by: lecrotta on 15/04/2009 11:24:37
Originally by: Prez21
Originally by: Karezan
Originally by: Kane Starkiller
why is the mega being compared to the abaddon? abaddon is a tier 3, therefore it's gallatine counterpart is the hyperion. do you guys even play this game at all?
bleh
Yes people do fly different ship types in gang well observed, but that doesnt mean you can balance blasters used on a tier 2 ship against pulses used on a tier 3 pulse ship can you, that would be just stupid, or maybe we should start balancing things based on tech1 hulls vs tech2 hulls. This thread should be about blasters and how they perform not which bs is the best for rr and trying to balance of that.
As for comparing the caldari sniping situation, you do know cruise missiles are long range so caldari do have a snipe bs at tier 2 its just ppl wanted insta sniping dmg and not delayed dmg so your argument there was kinda flawed and not thought out.
You compare the available ships and fits that are most suited for the role.
Now if you wanna post a RR BS fit using the hyperion go ahead but unless its better than the mega ppl will still use the mega for the role. Should we say the apoc is not a good example of sniper ship and should not be used just because of the rokh?.
Its NOTHING like comparing T1 to T2 or we would be using the marauders in the comparisons as they are the T2 BS.
You use the best T1 BS for the specific job intended no matter the tier.
The point was this has got nothing to do with rr bs, its to do with blasters, and just because one ship performs better in a certain role doesnt mean blasters are useless thats why you cant compare an abaddon to the mega as there to completely different ships for different bonuses, so to balance blasters based on how a mega performs in rr vs an abaddon would be pretty stupid.
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Chakarr
|
Posted - 2009.04.15 12:05:00 -
[2045]
O M G
|
lecrotta
Minmatar
lecrotta Corp
|
Posted - 2009.04.15 12:51:00 -
[2046]
Originally by: Prez21
The point was this has got nothing to do with rr bs, its to do with blasters, and just because one ship performs better in a certain role doesnt mean blasters are useless thats why you cant compare an abaddon to the mega as there to completely different ships for different bonuses, so to balance blasters based on how a mega performs in rr vs an abaddon would be pretty stupid.
WTF do you think you fit large blasters onto?.
You have to compare how they perform on their relative ships because its stupid to compare them just sitting on the market. While also using the most used and style of pvp available to them and that just happens to be RR gangs.
You may wanna derail this into a dodo catcher argument but that has already been covered and is a waste of time.
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Prez21
coracao ardente
Triumvirate.
|
Posted - 2009.04.15 13:16:00 -
[2047]
Originally by: lecrotta
Originally by: Prez21
The point was this has got nothing to do with rr bs, its to do with blasters, and just because one ship performs better in a certain role doesnt mean blasters are useless thats why you cant compare an abaddon to the mega as there to completely different ships for different bonuses, so to balance blasters based on how a mega performs in rr vs an abaddon would be pretty stupid.
WTF do you think you fit large blasters onto?.
You have to compare how they perform on their relative ships because its stupid to compare them just sitting on the market. While also using the most used and style of pvp available to them and that just happens to be RR gangs.
You may wanna derail this into a dodo catcher argument but that has already been covered and is a waste of time.
You fit large blasters to hyperions, megas, rohks, navy megas, vindicators and dominixs, all these ships can and usualy are setup differently so how can you only use rr ships on how blasters should work, plus if you even bothered to read the op he was talking about blasters in general so how does large blasters on an rr mega vs pulses on an abaddon affect blasters on a taranis, enyo or deimos or any of the other smaller blaster ships?
The fact is yes pulses at this point in time are better than all other turrets for rr bs gangs in general, that doesnt mean blasters have no role to play or are no longer viable in pvp, because they are and many people still use them effectivly.
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lecrotta
Minmatar
lecrotta Corp
|
Posted - 2009.04.15 13:55:00 -
[2048]
Edited by: lecrotta on 15/04/2009 13:57:51
Originally by: Prez21
You fit large blasters to hyperions, megas, rohks, navy megas, vindicators and dominixs, all these ships can and usualy are setup differently so how can you only use rr ships on how blasters should work, plus if you even bothered to read the op he was talking about blasters in general so how does large blasters on an rr mega vs pulses on an abaddon affect blasters on a taranis, enyo or deimos or any of the other smaller blaster ships?
1. The discussion you joined is about large blasters not the smaller ones, it progressed past the op's original comment.
2. The referances were done in regards to the most availablr pvp, the most used ships and the most used/available fits for each races T1 BS.
3. The RR idea was introduced by noobmareX claiming blasters were the ULTIMATE RR BS weapon on the mega (he later changed to the faction fitted standard mega when he was shown how poorly the mega performed relative to other BS, then the navy mega, then the faction fitted navy mega, then the faction fitted navy mega in empire ganking bears at stations...).
The point is the blasters on a T1 BS considering the reasonably available PVP for BS on TQ are outdated and lacking considering the competition, the mega itself cannot fit a good tank with its best blasters, while the range on blasters force it to be in a highly vulnerable position along with needing to burn buckets of cap to get into that range, so in all but station ganks it is a poor choice.
Nobody has said they are utterly useless but they are outdated and need reworking for the new type of pvp that BS have been limited to with the nerfs over the last few years.
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Tyrkisk Peber
Minmatar
Republic University
|
Posted - 2009.04.15 14:29:00 -
[2049]
Edited by: Tyrkisk Peber on 15/04/2009 14:36:46
Originally by: lecrotta
he later changed to the faction fitted standard mega when he was shown how poorly the mega performed relative to other BS
Because of the CPU issue the Mega have. Right?.
I have been looking around, and after what i hear by others, the problem the Mega have is the CPU. And because of the CPU issue, then the Mega can't fit a good enough setup.
Like others have said here, fix the CPU on the Mega in some ways, and you can have better setup on the ship so it gets better.
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lecrotta
Minmatar
lecrotta Corp
|
Posted - 2009.04.15 14:41:00 -
[2050]
Originally by: Tyrkisk Peber
Originally by: lecrotta
he later changed to the faction fitted standard mega when he was shown how poorly the mega performed relative to other BS
Because of the CPU issue the Mega have. Right?.
I have been looking around, and after what i hear by others, the problem the Mega have is the CPU. And because of the CPU issue, then the Mega can't fit a good enough setup.
Like others have said here, fix the CPU on the Mega in some ways, and you can have better setup on the ship so it gets better.
I know about the CPU issue and have mentioned it on several occasions, and yes it would allow the mega to fit a more reasonable tank so at least solving that single issue with blaster ships.
The others need a bit more work.
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Tyrkisk Peber
Minmatar
Republic University
|
Posted - 2009.04.15 14:55:00 -
[2051]
Edited by: Tyrkisk Peber on 15/04/2009 14:58:31
Originally by: lecrotta
The others need a bit more work.
And that is exactly what?.
After what i have understanded, the Blasters is the ultimate close range weapon. Nothing comes close to it when it's about DPS, and when it's about tracking on a Mega.
I have been using alot of time to read and understand how the different weapon systems are working in EVE.
And after what others have told me to, the Blasters are ONLY a close range weapon and are absolute best there while the Lasers are fine in close range but best in med range.
So i can't see any issues with the Blasters as a close range weapon system.
The Blasters for me are almost like a shooting game like Quake 4, you go up and close to a monster and shoot him with a shotgun, BAAAM and lots of blood. Lots of fun. Or like shooting a guy in Crysis with a shotgun, they fly pretty good away from me when i shoot them with a shotgun. That's also pretty fun.
The only thing i can see as the hardest thing with a Megathron or other slow Gallente BS'es is to get to the enemies web range. But when they are pinned down and are in the Blasters range, there is not much hope to survive.
Personally i like up and close fights. It's more fun than sitting long away from the enemies and then shoot them.
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lecrotta
Minmatar
lecrotta Corp
|
Posted - 2009.04.15 14:58:00 -
[2052]
Originally by: Tyrkisk Peber
Originally by: lecrotta
The others need a bit more work.
And that is exactly what?.
After what i have understanded, the Blasters is the ultimate close range weapon. Nothing comes close to it when it's about DPS, and when it's about tracking on a Mega.
I have been using alot of time to read and understand how the different weapon systems are working in EVE.
And after what others have told me to, the Blasters are ONLY a close range weapon and are absolute best there while the Lasers are fine in close range but best in med range.
So i can't see any issues with the Blasters as a close range weapon system.
The Blasters for me are almost like a shooting game like Doom 3, you go up and close to a monster and shoot him with a shotgun, BAAAM and lots of blood. Lots of fun.
The only thing i can see as the hardest thing with a Megathron or other slow Gallente BS'es is to get to the enemies web range. But when they are pinned down and are in the Blasters range, there is not much hope to survive.
Personally i like up and close fights. It's more fun than sitting long away from the enemies and then shoot them.
Hello nightmareX yet another new alt?.....
nightmareX, AKA: Tyrkisk Peber, electric universe getting spanked |
Tyrkisk Peber
Minmatar
Republic University
|
Posted - 2009.04.15 14:59:00 -
[2053]
Edited by: Tyrkisk Peber on 15/04/2009 14:59:32
Originally by: lecrotta
Originally by: Tyrkisk Peber
Originally by: lecrotta
The others need a bit more work.
And that is exactly what?.
After what i have understanded, the Blasters is the ultimate close range weapon. Nothing comes close to it when it's about DPS, and when it's about tracking on a Mega.
I have been using alot of time to read and understand how the different weapon systems are working in EVE.
And after what others have told me to, the Blasters are ONLY a close range weapon and are absolute best there while the Lasers are fine in close range but best in med range.
So i can't see any issues with the Blasters as a close range weapon system.
The Blasters for me are almost like a shooting game like Doom 3, you go up and close to a monster and shoot him with a shotgun, BAAAM and lots of blood. Lots of fun.
The only thing i can see as the hardest thing with a Megathron or other slow Gallente BS'es is to get to the enemies web range. But when they are pinned down and are in the Blasters range, there is not much hope to survive.
Personally i like up and close fights. It's more fun than sitting long away from the enemies and then shoot them.
Hello nightmareX yet another new alt?.....
Huh?.
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lecrotta
Minmatar
lecrotta Corp
|
Posted - 2009.04.15 15:15:00 -
[2054]
Edited by: lecrotta on 15/04/2009 15:17:16
Originally by: Tyrkisk Peber
Edited by: Tyrkisk Peber on 15/04/2009 15:14:03
Originally by: lecrotta
Hello nightmareX yet another new alt?.....
Huh?.
I have no clue on what your talking about.
I have been reading most of this topic, yeah i did lol, and after what i have seen, you are calling Electric Universe for NightmareX alt while after he says is his brothers account.
And then you have the alt Fatality Killer that is NightmareX's alt, like he said him self.
And then you say i'm NightmareX's alt to. But if you really mean Electric Universe is NightmareX's alt on his 2nd account like some of you have said, why wouldn't he post with Electric Universe alt then if he wanted to post with some alts?.
WOW you lasted less than 15 minutes before you broke and needed to update your "HUH" only post to a detailed denial that included your normal obvious justifications...soooo obvious.
Also a interesting posting history for a day old player....
Go away nightmare.
nightmareX, AKA: Tyrkisk Peber, electric universe getting spanked |
Tyrkisk Peber
Minmatar
Republic University
|
Posted - 2009.04.15 15:18:00 -
[2055]
Edited by: Tyrkisk Peber on 15/04/2009 15:25:48
Originally by: lecrotta
Edited by: lecrotta on 15/04/2009 15:16:17
Originally by: Tyrkisk Peber
Edited by: Tyrkisk Peber on 15/04/2009 15:14:03
Originally by: lecrotta
Hello nightmareX yet another new alt?.....
Huh?.
I have no clue on what your talking about.
I have been reading most of this topic, yeah i did lol, and after what i have seen, you are calling Electric Universe for NightmareX alt while after he says is his brothers account.
And then you have the alt Fatality Killer that is NightmareX's alt, like he said him self.
And then you say i'm NightmareX's alt to. But if you really mean Electric Universe is NightmareX's alt on his 2nd account like some of you have said, why wouldn't he post with Electric Universe alt then if he wanted to post with some alts?.
WOW you lasted less than 11 minutes before you broke and needed to update your "HUH" only post to a detailed denial that included your normal obvious justifications...soooo obvious.
Also a interesting posting history for a day old player....
Go away nightmare.
Because i would make sure you had to understand why i'm not his alt maybe?.
I have now given the explanation why i'm not his alt.
And i hope you accept it.
I'm a new player that are looking for good close range weapons to train for. No wonder why i just went into this topic that had so many pages with info.
EDIT: By looking at your sig. Do you really want me to send a harassment petition for that?. You better remove it, because i don't have anything to do with that guy. I only know him from this topic, because he have posted alot here, like your 436742 alts.
|
Irida Mershkov
Gallente
War is Bliss
|
Posted - 2009.04.15 15:19:00 -
[2056]
|
lecrotta
Minmatar
lecrotta Corp
|
Posted - 2009.04.15 15:28:00 -
[2057]
Edited by: lecrotta on 15/04/2009 15:31:43
Originally by: Tyrkisk Peber
Because i would make sure you had to understand why i'm not his alt maybe?.
I have now given the explanation why i'm not his alt.
And i hope you accept it.
Nope you are his alt its obvious ...yet again.
Originally by: Tyrkisk Peber
I'm a new player that are looking for good close range weapons to train for. No wonder why i just went into this topic that had so many pages with info.
You are a liar and you have been since the start of this thread.
Originally by: Tyrkisk Peber
EDIT: By looking at your sig. Do you really want me to send a petition for that?.
Do what you like, its the truth and my opinion.
Interesting that a day old noob knows so much about the forums and petitions, and reporting and has yet again the exact same posting style along with starting posting as NMX stopped ect ect...
You are a liar and will be ignored as such until you start telling the truth.
nightmareX, AKA: Tyrkisk Peber, electric universe getting spanked |
Tyrkisk Peber
Minmatar
Republic University
|
Posted - 2009.04.15 15:32:00 -
[2058]
Edited by: Tyrkisk Peber on 15/04/2009 15:36:29
Originally by: lecrotta
Originally by: Tyrkisk Peber
Because i would make sure you had to understand why i'm not his alt maybe?.
I have now given the explanation why i'm not his alt.
And i hope you accept it.
Nope you are his alt its obvious ...yet again.
Originally by: Tyrkisk Peber
I'm a new player that are looking for good close range weapons to train for. No wonder why i just went into this topic that had so many pages with info.
You are a lkiar and you have neen since the start of this thread.
Originally by: Tyrkisk Peber
EDIT: By looking at your sig. Do you really want me to send a petition for that?.
Do what you like, its the truth and my opinion.
Interesting that a day old noob knows so much about the forums and petitions, and reporting and has yet again the exact same posting style along with starting posting as NMX stopped ect ect...
You are a liar and will be ignored as such until you start telling the truth.
This is really making me go back to WoW. WoW have much better kids than the kids on this forum have.
I must say you are doing a great job on calling new players here for things they aren't. Good job.
Your really helping new players to stay with this game i see.
Awesome dude. Your making this community look like ****.
With idiots like you, no wonder why so many new players just decide to go back to WoW.
|
Traderboz
|
Posted - 2009.04.15 15:54:00 -
[2059]
What cracks me up is how this "Not NMX" guy has the same failure to grasp what makes a valid petition and what doesn't.
Simply mentioning someone's name in your signature is not a bannable offense. It takes more than mentioning you to constitute harassment. I could even say things that aren't true about you and it wouldn't necessarily be harassment. I might say things about you that you don't like me saying, but that doesn't necessarily constitute harassment.
The key is it has to be offensive or pervasive before a GM is going to do anything about it. They may not use those words in the ToS (or they might, I don't know), but common sense dictates they aren't going to ban anyone for simply guessing who your alts are. If you could get banned from the forum just because you said something people disagreed with, what would that do to the discussion? There wouldn't be any discussion, heh. And while some/most people might agree that it is offensive to be called NightmareX (), I doubt that's enough to lead to any sort of disciplinary action.
In short, your fail threats about reporting people are simply fail. All you're doing it wasting the GM's time denying stupid petitions and making even more of a fool out of yourself. But hey, don't let that stop you from reporting me for mentioning your name.
|
Tyrkisk Peber
Minmatar
Republic University
|
Posted - 2009.04.15 16:01:00 -
[2060]
Originally by: Traderboz
What cracks me up is how this "Not NMX" guy has the same failure to grasp what makes a valid petition and what doesn't.
Simply mentioning someone's name in your signature is not a bannable offense. It takes more than mentioning you to constitute harassment. I could even say things that aren't true about you and it wouldn't necessarily be harassment. I might say things about you that you don't like me saying, but that doesn't necessarily constitute harassment.
The key is it has to be offensive or pervasive before a GM is going to do anything about it. They may not use those words in the ToS (or they might, I don't know), but common sense dictates they aren't going to ban anyone for simply guessing who your alts are. If you could get banned from the forum just because you said something people disagreed with, what would that do to the discussion? There wouldn't be any discussion, heh. And while some/most people might agree that it is offensive to be called NightmareX (), I doubt that's enough to lead to any sort of disciplinary action.
In short, your fail threats about reporting people are simply fail. All you're doing it wasting the GM's time denying stupid petitions and making even more of a fool out of yourself. But hey, don't let that stop you from reporting me for mentioning your name.
Hi another Childstar / maralt alt \
|
|
|
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
PuPPet MasTers
|
Posted - 2009.04.15 17:12:00 -
[2061]
Originally by: Prez21
You fit large blasters to hyperions, megas, rohks, navy megas, vindicators and dominixs, all these ships can and usualy are setup differently so how can you only use rr ships on how blasters should work, plus if you even bothered to read the op he was talking about blasters in general so how does large blasters on an rr mega vs pulses on an abaddon affect blasters on a taranis, enyo or deimos or any of the other smaller blaster ships?
The fact is yes pulses at this point in time are better than all other turrets for rr bs gangs in general, that doesnt mean blasters have no role to play or are no longer viable in pvp, because they are and many people still use them effectivly.
Hey Prez, just wanted to congratulate you on having the patience to wade through this heaping pile of crap thread. I'm personally of the opinion that blasters are of very limited utility these days (especially in gang situations), but I would agree that saying nobody uses them or that they're useless is false.
They're just not as good as they perhaps should be, and when I look at blasters, and then I look at Autocannons, and I realize that pretty much every weapons system is being compared to lasers I think maybe the problem lies more with lasers being too good than with the weapons systems that are underpowered.
Watcha think?
-Liang
--
Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
www.kwikdeath.org |
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
PuPPet MasTers
|
Posted - 2009.04.15 17:19:00 -
[2062]
Originally by: Tyrkisk Peber
Edited by: Tyrkisk Peber on 15/04/2009 16:07:57
Originally by: Traderboz
...
Hi another Childstar / maralt / lecrotta alt \
I will personally vouch for Boz not being Childstar. Boz has been a well known Eve-O forum figure for about a year now, IIRC.
-Liang
--
Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
www.kwikdeath.org |
Tyrkisk Peber
Minmatar
Republic University
|
Posted - 2009.04.15 17:27:00 -
[2063]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: Tyrkisk Peber
Edited by: Tyrkisk Peber on 15/04/2009 16:07:57
Originally by: Traderboz
...
Hi another Childstar / maralt / lecrotta alt \
I will personally vouch for Boz not being Childstar. Boz has been a well known Eve-O forum figure for about a year now, IIRC.
-Liang
Alright, then better get lecrotta / Childstar / maralt to shut up about me being NightmareX's alt then.
I'm sure you don't want me to claim just some random alts or whatever to be you for example.
That's what lecrotta / Childstar / maralt are doing atm, just take some random characters like me for being someone i'm not.
|
Traderboz
|
Posted - 2009.04.15 17:36:00 -
[2064]
Wait, didn't Maralt say that your last alt was NMX? I don't think he claimed the new one was NMX, lol. Or are we getting the alts mixed up these days?
|
lecrotta
Minmatar
lecrotta Corp
|
Posted - 2009.04.15 17:40:00 -
[2065]
Originally by: Traderboz
Wait, didn't Maralt say that your last alt was NMX? I don't think he claimed the new one was NMX, lol. Or are we getting the alts mixed up these days?
Does it matter its just nightmareX lying through his teeth again, this time pretending to be a clueless noob........so at least he is actually closer to being truthful than usual by doing that.....
nightmareX, AKA: Tyrkisk Peber, electric universe getting spanked |
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
PuPPet MasTers
|
Posted - 2009.04.15 17:42:00 -
[2066]
Originally by: Tyrkisk Peber
Alright, then better get lecrotta / Childstar / maralt to shut up about me being NightmareX's alt then.
I'm sure you don't want me to claim just some random alts or whatever to be you for example.
That's what lecrotta / Childstar / maralt are doing atm, just take some random characters like me for being someone i'm not.
You're above this NMX.
-Liang
--
Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
www.kwikdeath.org |
Tyrkisk Peber
Minmatar
Republic University
|
Posted - 2009.04.15 17:42:00 -
[2067]
Edited by: Tyrkisk Peber on 15/04/2009 17:47:17
Originally by: Traderboz
Wait, didn't Maralt say that your last alt was NMX? I don't think he claimed the new one was NMX, lol. Or are we getting the alts mixed up these days?
Didn't NightmareX said that his alt was Fatality Killer?. Didn't he even post with his alt here to?.
That's what i have readed from him here in this topic.
But no, lecrotta said that i was an alt TO NightmareX, witch is not true.
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: Tyrkisk Peber
Alright, then better get lecrotta / Childstar / maralt to shut up about me being NightmareX's alt then.
I'm sure you don't want me to claim just some random alts or whatever to be you for example.
That's what lecrotta / Childstar / maralt are doing atm, just take some random characters like me for being someone i'm not.
You're above this NMX.
-Liang
Just a question. Would you like it if i would call Childstar for your alt?.
|
Mazzy Star
Caldari
|
Posted - 2009.04.15 17:49:00 -
[2068]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: Tyrkisk Peber
Alright, then better get lecrotta / Childstar / maralt to shut up about me being NightmareX's alt then.
I'm sure you don't want me to claim just some random alts or whatever to be you for example.
That's what lecrotta / Childstar / maralt are doing atm, just take some random characters like me for being someone i'm not.
You're above this NMX.
-Liang
You'd think so, but apparently not. Wonder if he got another forum ban, and hence the resurgence of the alt? :P
________________________________________________________
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lecrotta
Minmatar
lecrotta Corp
|
Posted - 2009.04.15 17:52:00 -
[2069]
Edited by: lecrotta on 15/04/2009 17:55:18
Edited by: lecrotta on 15/04/2009 17:53:30
Originally by: Mazzy Star
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: Tyrkisk Peber
Alright, then better get lecrotta / Childstar / maralt to shut up about me being NightmareX's alt then.
I'm sure you don't want me to claim just some random alts or whatever to be you for example.
That's what lecrotta / Childstar / maralt are doing atm, just take some random characters like me for being someone i'm not.
You're above this NMX.
-Liang
You'd think so, but apparently not. Wonder if he got another forum ban, and hence the resurgence of the alt? :P
here on post 74 probably, he created and starts posting with this alt around the same time he gets the warning and stops posting with nightmareX
nightmareX, AKA: Tyrkisk Peber, electric universe getting spanked |
Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
|
Posted - 2009.04.15 17:52:00 -
[2070]
Originally by: Mazzy Star
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: Tyrkisk Peber
Alright, then better get lecrotta / Childstar / maralt to shut up about me being NightmareX's alt then.
I'm sure you don't want me to claim just some random alts or whatever to be you for example.
That's what lecrotta / Childstar / maralt are doing atm, just take some random characters like me for being someone i'm not.
You're above this NMX.
-Liang
You'd think so, but apparently not. Wonder if he got another forum ban, and hence the resurgence of the alt? :P
Hmm, wouldn't i post with Electric instead then if you guys really say that i'm NightmareX's alt then?.
But no, sorry, i'm not NightmareX's alt. I'm his brother in RL.
|
|
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Prez21
coracao ardente
Triumvirate.
|
Posted - 2009.04.15 17:53:00 -
[2071]
Edited by: Prez21 on 15/04/2009 17:54:17
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: Prez21
You fit large blasters to hyperions, megas, rohks, navy megas, vindicators and dominixs, all these ships can and usualy are setup differently so how can you only use rr ships on how blasters should work, plus if you even bothered to read the op he was talking about blasters in general so how does large blasters on an rr mega vs pulses on an abaddon affect blasters on a taranis, enyo or deimos or any of the other smaller blaster ships?
The fact is yes pulses at this point in time are better than all other turrets for rr bs gangs in general, that doesnt mean blasters have no role to play or are no longer viable in pvp, because they are and many people still use them effectivly.
Hey Prez, just wanted to congratulate you on having the patience to wade through this heaping pile of crap thread. I'm personally of the opinion that blasters are of very limited utility these days (especially in gang situations), but I would agree that saying nobody uses them or that they're useless is false.
They're just not as good as they perhaps should be, and when I look at blasters, and then I look at Autocannons, and I realize that pretty much every weapons system is being compared to lasers I think maybe the problem lies more with lasers being too good than with the weapons systems that are underpowered.
Watcha think?
-Liang
I actualy agree with you, lasers do have quite an edge at the minute and im glad someone else is looking at blasters as a whole and not just my rr pulse bs is better than your rr blaster bs which seems to becoming from this thread. I agree blasters have been left alittle behind with the recent patches but no more than autocannons have.
The main concern i have is if you give blasters more optimal or greater falloff you would end up making autocannons obselete, the problem is in todays eve most engagements are starting to be fought at mid- long range where amarr and in particular lasers realy do shine, but it wasnt that long ago up until the em resist changes an armour when everybody was talking about how poor lasers performed and how much better blasters were.
You might be right in thinking that the problem actualy is with lasers instead of the other turret types, i have lots of experience using all close range turrets, im not saying im some epic pvper but i have 300+ kills each with pulses, blasters and autocannons and i do understand that each turret types shine in different enviroments,
|
lecrotta
Minmatar
lecrotta Corp
|
Posted - 2009.04.15 18:19:00 -
[2072]
Originally by: Electric Universe
Hmm, doesn't you guys think that i would post with this character instead then if i'am an alt to NightmareX as many of you say here?.
Because you are a natural and compulsive liar and we already knew this was one of nightmareX alts and you wanted to try and act like a new player instead.
Originally by: Electric Universe
That's why you wont see many posts from me.
Good riddance and i hope the same applies to the rest of your alts.
nightmareX, AKA: Tyrkisk Peber, electric universe getting spanked |
Tyrkisk Peber
Minmatar
Republic University
|
Posted - 2009.04.15 18:23:00 -
[2073]
Edited by: Tyrkisk Peber on 15/04/2009 18:23:12
lecrotta, are you trying to be an idiot or what?.
|
lecrotta
Minmatar
lecrotta Corp
|
Posted - 2009.04.15 18:26:00 -
[2074]
Originally by: Prez21
I actualy agree with you, lasers do have quite an edge at the minute and im glad someone else is looking at blasters as a whole and not just my rr pulse bs is better than your rr blaster bs which seems to becoming from this thread. I agree blasters have been left alittle behind with the recent patches but no more than autocannons have.
The latter part of the thread became about RR blaster BS but earlier it was a more broad comparison.
Originally by: Prez21
The main concern i have is if you give blasters more optimal or greater falloff you would end up making autocannons obselete, the problem is in todays eve most engagements are starting to be fought at mid- long range where amarr and in particular lasers realy do shine, but it wasnt that long ago up until the em resist changes an armour when everybody was talking about how poor lasers performed and how much better blasters were.
Exactly, and posts were made and things were changed due to these things.
Maybe lasers are the problem but i prefer the idea of buffing rather than nerfing to fix things.
nightmareX, AKA: Tyrkisk Peber, electric universe getting spanked |
Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
|
Posted - 2009.04.15 18:26:00 -
[2075]
Originally by: lecrotta
Originally by: Electric Universe
Hmm, doesn't you guys think that i would post with this character instead then if i'am an alt to NightmareX as many of you say here?.
Because you are a natural and compulsive liar and we already knew this was one of nightmareX alts and you wanted to try and act like a new player instead.
Originally by: Electric Universe
That's why you wont see many posts from me.
Good riddance and i hope the same applies to the rest of your alts.
1. So, good riddance your self, because you a liar to.
2. Good riddance x2. NightmareX will post alot when he's back. Believe me. You will NEVER get rid of him if you are thinking that.
|
lecrotta
Minmatar
lecrotta Corp
|
Posted - 2009.04.15 18:27:00 -
[2076]
Originally by: Tyrkisk Peber
lecrotta, are you trying to be an idiot or what?.
The only idiot here is you for thinking anybody believes you.
nightmareX, AKA: Tyrkisk Peber, electric universe getting spanked |
Tyrkisk Peber
Minmatar
Republic University
|
Posted - 2009.04.15 18:31:00 -
[2077]
Edited by: Tyrkisk Peber on 15/04/2009 18:31:54
Originally by: lecrotta
Originally by: Electric Universe
lecrotta, are you trying to be an idiot or what?.
The only idiot here is you for thinking anybody believes you.
I think you should just shut the hell up with the thing you are doing here.
You have ONLY 1 PURPOSE in this topic. And that's to take this topic into a flame fest with your stupid rant in here. Like you have done like 6345 times now.
|
Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
|
Posted - 2009.04.15 18:34:00 -
[2078]
Edited by: Electric Universe on 15/04/2009 18:34:52
Originally by: lecrotta
Edited by: lecrotta on 15/04/2009 18:28:41
Originally by: Electric Universe/Tyrkisk Peber
2. Good riddance x2. NightmareX will post alot when he's back. Believe me. You will NEVER get rid of him if you are thinking that.
Why would i want rid of you/him, the more you/he posts the more stupid you look.
Originally by: Electric Universe/Tyrkisk Peber
lecrotta, are you trying to be an idiot or what?.
The only idiot here is you for thinking anybody believes you.
Wow, omg a noobcake on a forum thinks he looks more stupid if he post. LOL, trying to be funny or what?.
Do you think anybody here believe your crap here then?.
Yeah yeah, i'm waiting for the reply where you think your awesome and then everybody would believe you.
CHEAST BEATING CHEAST BEATING CHEAST BEATING CHEAST BEATING CHEAST BEATING CHEAST BEATING CHEAST BEATING.
|
lecrotta
Minmatar
lecrotta Corp
|
Posted - 2009.04.15 18:35:00 -
[2079]
Edited by: lecrotta on 15/04/2009 18:35:40
Originally by: Electric Universe/Tyrkisk Peber
troll
I have posted more facts and figures in this thread than anybody all detailed and exact and those that were not i corrected.
You have done nothing but troll, lie and manipulate, even now you are pretending to be 3 differant people so you can continue to troll the thread.
You are kidding nobody but please please please continue to try as every time you post it show what kind of a person you are.
nightmareX, AKA: Tyrkisk Peber, electric universe getting spanked |
Tyrkisk Peber
Minmatar
Republic University
|
Posted - 2009.04.15 18:41:00 -
[2080]
Originally by: lecrotta
Edited by: lecrotta on 15/04/2009 18:35:40
Originally by: Electric Universe/Tyrkisk Peber
troll
I have posted more facts and figures in this thread than anybody all detailed and exact and those that were not i corrected.
You have done nothing but troll, lie and manipulate, even now you are pretending to be 3 differant people so you can continue to troll the thread.
You are kidding nobody but please please please continue to try as every time you post it show what kind of a person you are.
Uhm, tell me exactly where i have been trolling in any of my replies here?.
This was my first post.
2nd post
3rd post
4th post
5th post
And so on 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11
Where in my 11 posts here do i troll?.
I think you should more think of all the trolling you are doing or have done in this topic, kid.
|
|
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lecrotta
Minmatar
lecrotta Corp
|
Posted - 2009.04.15 18:46:00 -
[2081]
Originally by: NightmareX/Electric Universe/Tyrkisk Peber
...........
Pretending to be somebody your are not (like a new player) is called lying, and supporting your trolly main is still trolling.
nightmareX, AKA: Tyrkisk Peber, electric universe getting spanked |
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
PuPPet MasTers
|
Posted - 2009.04.15 18:51:00 -
[2082]
Originally by: Tyrkisk Peber
Why are i'm lying when i say i'm a new player?.
Explain me why?.
Ooooooooooooooooooohhhhh just because you noobtard are saying it?.
Anyways, your reported for harassing me and because your trolling. Enjoy.
Honestly, I'd say that I'm 95% certain that you're NightmareX on a new character because of your writing style, penchant for hyperbole, and personal attacks.
-Liang
--
Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
www.kwikdeath.org |
Fistme
|
Posted - 2009.04.15 18:51:00 -
[2083]
Originally by: Tyrkisk Peber
Why are i'm lying when i say i'm a new player?.
Explain me why?.
Ooooooooooooooooooohhhhh just because you noobtard are saying it?.
Anyways, your reported for harassing me and because your trolling. Enjoy.
Hi Nightmare!
|
Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
|
Posted - 2009.04.15 18:53:00 -
[2084]
Originally by: lecrotta
Edited by: lecrotta on 15/04/2009 18:50:40
Originally by: NightmareX
Yes as i have said for the 7834697457469474777th time.
Originally by: Tyrkisk Peber
I only know him from this topic, because he have posted alot here, like your 436742 alts.
Such amusing simularities...
Want me to report you to?.
Oh, it's going to look good for you when multiple characters are reporting you.
I see for me that you will have some less alts to post woth pretty soon.
Keep reporting liar.
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lecrotta
Minmatar
lecrotta Corp
|
Posted - 2009.04.15 18:55:00 -
[2085]
Looks like you have 2 more ppl to report now lol.
nightmareX, AKA: Tyrkisk Peber, electric universe getting spanked |
Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
|
Posted - 2009.04.15 18:55:00 -
[2086]
Originally by: Fistme
Originally by: Tyrkisk Peber
Why are i'm lying when i say i'm a new player?.
Explain me why?.
Ooooooooooooooooooohhhhh just because you noobtard are saying it?.
Anyways, your reported for harassing me and because your trolling. Enjoy.
Hi Nightmare!
Hi Childstar / lecrotta / maralt / sophisticatedlimabean \.
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Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
|
Posted - 2009.04.15 18:56:00 -
[2087]
Originally by: lecrotta
Looks like you have 2 more ppl to report now lol.
It would be a pleasure for me to do.
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lecrotta
Minmatar
lecrotta Corp
|
Posted - 2009.04.15 18:57:00 -
[2088]
Originally by: Electric Universe
Originally by: Fistme
Originally by: Tyrkisk Peber
Why are i'm lying when i say i'm a new player?.
Explain me why?.
Ooooooooooooooooooohhhhh just because you noobtard are saying it?.
Anyways, your reported for harassing me and because your trolling. Enjoy.
Hi Nightmare!
Hi Childstar / lecrotta / maralt / sophisticatedlimabean \.
OOps did you click the wrong name by mistake....he was talking to Tyrkisk Peber....
Must be hard to keep track...huh?..
nightmareX, AKA: Tyrkisk Peber, electric universe getting spanked |
Fistme
|
Posted - 2009.04.15 18:59:00 -
[2089]
Originally by: Electric Universe
Originally by: Fistme
Hi Nightmare!
Hi Childstar / lecrotta / maralt / sophisticatedlimabean \.
The Hypocrisy is strong with this one! I really love it Nightmare, I really do :P
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Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
|
Posted - 2009.04.15 18:59:00 -
[2090]
Originally by: lecrotta
Originally by: Electric Universe
Originally by: Fistme
Originally by: Tyrkisk Peber
Why are i'm lying when i say i'm a new player?.
Explain me why?.
Ooooooooooooooooooohhhhh just because you noobtard are saying it?.
Anyways, your reported for harassing me and because your trolling. Enjoy.
Hi Nightmare!
Hi Childstar / lecrotta / maralt / sophisticatedlimabean \.
OOps did you click the wrong name by mistake....he was talking to Tyrkisk Peber....
Must be hard to keep track...huh?..
Uhm, i did say Hi Childstar / lecrotta / maralt / sophisticatedlimabean \.
Because i can call you for those to, when you are calling new players for someone that they aren't.
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Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
|
Posted - 2009.04.15 19:00:00 -
[2091]
Edited by: Electric Universe on 15/04/2009 19:02:22
Originally by: Fistme
Originally by: Electric Universe
Originally by: Fistme
Hi Nightmare!
Hi Childstar / lecrotta / maralt / sophisticatedlimabean \.
The Hypocrisy is strong with this one! I really love it Nightmare, I really do :P
Yeah i also love it that you have to post with multiple other alts like Childstar / lecrotta / maralt / sophisticatedlimabean (ops this was your main) to, just to say one thing. Dude, wow, your awesome.
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lecrotta
Minmatar
lecrotta Corp
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Posted - 2009.04.15 19:02:00 -
[2092]
Originally by: Fistme
Originally by: Electric Universe
Originally by: Fistme
Hi Nightmare!
Hi Childstar / lecrotta / maralt / sophisticatedlimabean \.
The Hypocrisy is strong with this one! I really love it Nightmare, I really do :P
Its what happens when a player lies a lot on the forums..
They say a thief never forgets to lock his own door, and NMX+alts ect is a fine example of that saying, he lies and denies so he expects everybody else to be doing the same thing...
nightmareX, AKA: Tyrkisk Peber, electric universe getting spanked |
Tyrkisk Peber
Minmatar
Republic University
|
Posted - 2009.04.15 19:03:00 -
[2093]
Edited by: Tyrkisk Peber on 15/04/2009 19:05:39
Originally by: lecrotta
Originally by: Fistme
Originally by: Electric Universe
Originally by: Fistme
Hi Nightmare!
Hi Childstar / lecrotta / maralt / sophisticatedlimabean \.
The Hypocrisy is strong with this one! I really love it Nightmare, I really do :P
Its what happens when a player lies a lot on the forums..
They say a thief never forgets to lock his own door, and NMX+alts ect is a fine example of that saying, he lies and denies so he expects everybody else to be doing the same thing...
Uhm, i'm still not NightmareX's alt.
I'm just confused here.
Should EVE really be allowed to have such stupid players like lecrotta?.
It's a really shame for the whole EVE community to have such an idiot here. It's just sad.
Here i'm joining EVE because i have heard that the EVE community is very good and because EVE is a very good game.
But it's looking really dark now.
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lecrotta
Minmatar
lecrotta Corp
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Posted - 2009.04.15 19:07:00 -
[2094]
Edited by: lecrotta on 15/04/2009 19:08:35
Originally by: Tyrkisk Peber
Uhm, i'm still not NightmareX's alt.
I'm just confused here.
Should EVE really be allowed to have such stupid players like lecrotta?.
The only stupid person here is you for thinking anybody believes your lies, just how many ppl need to point out how obvious you are?.
Why lie in the first place if you are so stupid that you cannot totally alter your writing style and attitude, all you do is make yourself look totally stupid and insult the intelegence of every person reading your lies.
nightmareX,electric,Tyrkisk Peber effect
nightmareX, AKA: Tyrkisk Peber, electric universe getting spanked |
Tyrkisk Peber
Minmatar
Republic University
|
Posted - 2009.04.15 19:08:00 -
[2095]
Originally by: lecrotta
Originally by: Tyrkisk Peber
Uhm, i'm still not NightmareX's alt.
I'm just confused here.
Should EVE really be allowed to have such stupid players like lecrotta?.
The only stupid person here is you for thinking anybody believes your lies, just how many ppl need to point out how obvious you are?.
Why lie in the first place if you are so stupid that you cannot totally alter your writing style and attitude, all you do is make yourself look totally stupid and insult the intelegence of every person reading your lies.
Ok, thank you for making me to take the decission to go back to WoW. WoW seems to be much better after all.
Enjoy this ******ed idiot community.
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Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
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Posted - 2009.04.15 19:10:00 -
[2096]
Edited by: Electric Universe on 15/04/2009 19:12:23
Good work lecrotta.
Just good work there lecrotta. Congrats for making one player to leave EVE.
Nice way of making this forum community to look good.
And i mean really good work dude.
I hope you feel proud because of this.
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lecrotta
Minmatar
lecrotta Corp
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Posted - 2009.04.15 19:12:00 -
[2097]
Edited by: lecrotta on 15/04/2009 19:12:24
Originally by: Electric Universe
Edited by: Electric Universe on 15/04/2009 19:10:38
Good work lecrotta.
Just good work there lecrotta. Congrats for making one player to leave EVE.
Nice way of making this forum community to look good.
And i mean really good work dude.
Just how naive do you think i am or the devs are that you think you can spin such rubbish?.
This was SO accurate its scary.
nightmareX,electric,Tyrkisk Peber effect
nightmareX, AKA: Tyrkisk Peber, electric universe getting spanked |
Fistme
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Posted - 2009.04.15 19:13:00 -
[2098]
Originally by: Tyrkisk Peber
Uhm, i'm still not NightmareX's alt.
I'm just confused here.
Should EVE really be allowed to have such stupid players like lecrotta?.
It's a really shame for the whole EVE community to have such an idiot here. It's just sad.
Here i'm joining EVE because i have heard that the EVE community is very good and because EVE is a very good game.
But it's looking really dark now.
I find it odd that a "new" player would rather argue on the forums about not being an alt rather than playing a fresh game. Really just does not seem logical to me
If the eve community is looking "really dark now" simply based upon a very limited number of people calling you out on a message board then I think your analysis of the community or really anything at this point is inherently flawed.
So, "Tyrkisk Peber", what is it that you wanted to know about blasters?
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Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
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Posted - 2009.04.15 19:13:00 -
[2099]
Originally by: lecrotta
Edited by: lecrotta on 15/04/2009 19:12:24
Originally by: Electric Universe
Edited by: Electric Universe on 15/04/2009 19:10:38
Good work lecrotta.
Just good work there lecrotta. Congrats for making one player to leave EVE.
Nice way of making this forum community to look good.
And i mean really good work dude.
Just how naive do you think i am or the devs are that you think you can spin such rubbish?.
This was SO accurate its scary.
nightmareX,electric,Tyrkisk Peber effect
Cry more please.
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Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
|
Posted - 2009.04.15 19:17:00 -
[2100]
Originally by: Fistme
Originally by: Tyrkisk Peber
Uhm, i'm still not NightmareX's alt.
I'm just confused here.
Should EVE really be allowed to have such stupid players like lecrotta?.
It's a really shame for the whole EVE community to have such an idiot here. It's just sad.
Here i'm joining EVE because i have heard that the EVE community is very good and because EVE is a very good game.
But it's looking really dark now.
I find it odd that a "new" player would rather argue on the forums about not being an alt rather than playing a fresh game. Really just does not seem logical to me
If the eve community is looking "really dark now" simply based upon a very limited number of people calling you out on a message board then I think your analysis of the community or really anything at this point is inherently flawed.
So, "Tyrkisk Peber", what is it that you wanted to know about blasters?
If you haven't read what he have said.
He have said that he have been READING alot the last time now to find out about how Blasters and Lasers are working.
Then he said after what he had been reading, then he did UNDERSTAND that the Blaster was the best close range weapon after what the ingame info are telling him, but still that the Lasers was fine in close range, but not as good as Blasters there.
Instead of trolling this new player and make him to leave, then rather give him some hints and tips on things.
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lecrotta
Minmatar
lecrotta Corp
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Posted - 2009.04.15 19:19:00 -
[2101]
Edited by: lecrotta on 15/04/2009 19:19:24
Originally by: Electric Universe
nightmareX,electric,Tyrkisk Peber effect
Read the link, its all you need to see and easier than reading his lies.
nightmareX, AKA: Tyrkisk Peber, electric universe getting spanked |
Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
|
Posted - 2009.04.15 19:21:00 -
[2102]
Originally by: lecrotta
Edited by: lecrotta on 15/04/2009 19:19:24
Originally by: Electric Universe
nightmareX,electric,Tyrkisk Peber effect
Read the link, its all you need to see and easier than reading his lies.
That link shows nothing that Tyrkisk or me to be NightmareX's alt.
You failed. Sorry. Better luck next time, KID.
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lecrotta
Minmatar
lecrotta Corp
|
Posted - 2009.04.15 19:22:00 -
[2103]
Originally by: Electric Universe
Originally by: lecrotta
Edited by: lecrotta on 15/04/2009 19:19:24
Originally by: Electric Universe
nightmareX,electric,Tyrkisk Peber effect
Read the link, its all you need to see and easier than reading his lies.
That link shows nothing that Tyrkisk or me to be NightmareX's alt.
You failed. Sorry. Better luck next time, KID.
Actually it does, it also explians why you are to stupid to see it when everybody else can....
nightmareX, AKA: Tyrkisk Peber, electric universe getting spanked |
Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
|
Posted - 2009.04.15 19:23:00 -
[2104]
Edited by: Electric Universe on 15/04/2009 19:24:10
Originally by: lecrotta
Originally by: Electric Universe
Originally by: lecrotta
Edited by: lecrotta on 15/04/2009 19:19:24
Originally by: Electric Universe
nightmareX,electric,Tyrkisk Peber effect
Read the link, its all you need to see and easier than reading his lies.
That link shows nothing that Tyrkisk or me to be NightmareX's alt.
You failed. Sorry. Better luck next time, KID.
Actually it does, it also explians why you are to stupid to see it when everybody else can....
It doesn't.
It doesn't just do it just because you say it.
That link on the other hand shows your symptoms here on the forum though.
I'm happy that you posted even a link that shows your problems. Thank you.
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lecrotta
Minmatar
lecrotta Corp
|
Posted - 2009.04.15 19:26:00 -
[2105]
Originally by: Electric Universe
nightmareX,electric,Tyrkisk Peber effect
...
nightmareX, AKA: Tyrkisk Peber, electric universe getting spanked |
Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
|
Posted - 2009.04.15 19:31:00 -
[2106]
Originally by: lecrotta
Originally by: Electric Universe
nightmareX,electric,Tyrkisk Peber effect
...
Do you like my sig?.
Childstar, lecrotta, maralt, Fistme and the rest of the alts to sophisticatedlimabean does suffer from this problem. |
lecrotta
Minmatar
lecrotta Corp
|
Posted - 2009.04.15 19:33:00 -
[2107]
Edited by: lecrotta on 15/04/2009 19:35:32
Originally by: Electric Universe
Originally by: lecrotta
Originally by: Electric Universe
nightmareX,electric,Tyrkisk Peber effect
...
Do you like my sig?.
I love it cos it makes my point about you better than i ever could.
The nightmareX,electric,Tyrkisk Peber-effect |
Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
|
Posted - 2009.04.15 19:35:00 -
[2108]
Originally by: lecrotta
Originally by: Electric Universe
Originally by: lecrotta
Originally by: Electric Universe
nightmareX,electric,Tyrkisk Peber effect
...
Do you like my sig?.
I love it cos it makes mt point about you better than i ever could.
Yeah right, trying to be funny heh?.
Childstar, lecrotta, maralt, Fistme and the rest of the alts to sophisticatedlimabean does suffer from this problem. |
lecrotta
Minmatar
lecrotta Corp
|
Posted - 2009.04.15 19:37:00 -
[2109]
Please please please keep posting.
The nightmareX,electric,Tyrkisk Peber-effect |
Traderboz
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Posted - 2009.04.15 19:39:00 -
[2110]
Multiples in this thread I've thought that NMX has finally hit an all time low. Yet every time, he somehow manages to lower the bar and sink lower and lower. It's somewhat entertaining but in a sad way.
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Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
|
Posted - 2009.04.15 19:42:00 -
[2111]
Edited by: Electric Universe on 15/04/2009 19:46:03
Originally by: Traderboz
Multiples in this thread I've thought that NMX has finally hit an all time low. Yet every time, he somehow manages to lower the bar and sink lower and lower. It's somewhat entertaining but in a sad way.
Says the alt to sophisticatedlimabean / maralt.
I just updated my sig though, enjoy.
Originally by: lecrotta
Please please please keep posting.
Please please please keep crying more.
The tears are just mmmmmmmmmm.
Childstar, lecrotta, maralt, Fistme, Traderboz and the rest of the alts to sophisticatedlimabean does suffer from this problem. |
lecrotta
Minmatar
lecrotta Corp
|
Posted - 2009.04.15 19:45:00 -
[2112]
Edited by: lecrotta on 15/04/2009 19:47:03
Originally by: Traderboz
Multiples in this thread I've thought that NMX has finally hit an all time low. Yet every time, he somehow manages to lower the bar and sink lower and lower. It's somewhat entertaining but in a sad way.
Welcome to the club....
I dunno about you but im saving that last page and linking it to my buddies its the best laugh i have had in ages...although a little sad.
The nightmareX,electric,Tyrkisk Peber-effect |
Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
|
Posted - 2009.04.15 19:49:00 -
[2113]
Edited by: Electric Universe on 15/04/2009 19:54:31
Originally by: lecrotta
Originally by: Traderboz
Multiples in this thread I've thought that NMX has finally hit an all time low. Yet every time, he somehow manages to lower the bar and sink lower and lower. It's somewhat entertaining but in a sad way.
Welcome to the club....
I dunno about you nut im saving this page and linking it to my buddies its the best laugh i have had in ages...although a little sad.
Yeah you are laughting now, but i don't think you will do that in some few hours.
Just wait and see. You wont believe it, and that's even more fun if you do, because i would like to see your sadface when it happens.
Yes i'm the one who will laught really good then.
EDIT: I'm also gonna bookmark this topic so i can show it to new players just to show how ******ed this community can get ONLY because of you.
Isn't that cool?.
Childstar, lecrotta, maralt, Fistme, Traderboz and the rest of the alts to sophisticatedlimabean does suffer from this problem. |
lecrotta
Minmatar
lecrotta Corp
|
Posted - 2009.04.15 19:55:00 -
[2114]
Edited by: lecrotta on 15/04/2009 19:55:57
Originally by: Electric Universe
troll
I just reported a bunch of your silly alt posts and threats and now im tired of arguing with a foolish, lying, manipulative clown like you so keep posting your lying trolly crap by all means.
You are the worst kind of liar and idiot on this forum.
The nightmareX,electric,Tyrkisk Peber-effect |
Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
|
Posted - 2009.04.15 19:58:00 -
[2115]
Edited by: Electric Universe on 15/04/2009 20:05:46
Originally by: lecrotta
Edited by: lecrotta on 15/04/2009 19:55:57
Originally by: Electric Universe
troll
I just reported a bunch of your silly alt posts and threats and now im tired of arguing with a foolish, lying, manipulative clown like you so keep posting your lying trolly crap by all means.
You are the worst kind of liar and idiot on this forum.
MY PANTS ARE SHAKING OMGOMG, MY PANTS ARE SHAKING REALLY HARD.
More to cry about?.
Hahahaha, maybe i have to try this against you. LINK.
EDIT: Saying you wont be able to post soon is not a threat dude.
Childstar, lecrotta, maralt, Fistme, Traderboz and the rest of the alts to sophisticatedlimabean does suffer from this problem. |
Traderboz
|
Posted - 2009.04.15 20:06:00 -
[2116]
Originally by: Electric Universe
Edited by: Electric Universe on 15/04/2009 19:46:03
Originally by: Traderboz
Multiples in this thread I've thought that NMX has finally hit an all time low. Yet every time, he somehow manages to lower the bar and sink lower and lower. It's somewhat entertaining but in a sad way.
Says the alt to sophisticatedlimabean / maralt.
I just updated my sig though, enjoy.
Originally by: lecrotta
Please please please keep posting.
Please please please keep crying more.
The tears are just mmmmmmmmmm.
I thought you weren't NMX? Why do you even care that he's a sad joke of a forum troll? Oh wait, I forgot you're his stranger/friend/brother/alt.
I'd say drop all the alt posting and get back on topic, but that would mean going back 50 or so pages in this thread, heh. I don't really care that you post with your alts, and I imagine you only care because your main got banned for ****posting in the first place. You're probably much more likely to get your alt banned though for ****posting with the alts like you're doing right now, than for just admitting you're the same RL player as NMX or just not making a big deal out of it to begin with.
I will say this though. This thread has convinced me though that there are things in this game sadder that blaster boats, and at least one of them plays on SiSi way too much.
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lecrotta
Minmatar
lecrotta Corp
|
Posted - 2009.04.15 20:08:00 -
[2117]
Originally by: Traderboz
I thought you weren't NMX? Why do you even care that he's a sad joke of a forum troll? Oh wait, I forgot you're his stranger/friend/brother/alt.
I'd say drop all the alt posting and get back on topic, but that would mean going back 50 or so pages in this thread, heh. I don't really care that you post with your alts, and I imagine you only care because your main got banned for ****posting in the first place. You're probably much more likely to get your alt banned though for ****posting with the alts like you're doing right now, than for just admitting you're the same RL player as NMX or just not making a big deal out of it to begin with.
I will say this though. This thread has convinced me though that there are things in this game sadder that blaster boats, and at least one of them plays on SiSi way too much.
/signed.
Sig removed, lacks EVE related content, trolls - Mitnal |
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
PuPPet MasTers
|
Posted - 2009.04.15 20:10:00 -
[2118]
Does anyone wanna put money on whether NMX et al and Childstar et al are the same person just trolling himself and us? Just saying...... ;-)
-Liang
--
Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
www.kwikdeath.org |
Electric Universe
Minmatar
The Choir
|
Posted - 2009.04.15 20:11:00 -
[2119]
Edited by: Electric Universe on 15/04/2009 20:12:18
Originally by: Traderboz
Originally by: Electric Universe
Edited by: Electric Universe on 15/04/2009 19:46:03
Originally by: Traderboz
Multiples in this thread I've thought that NMX has finally hit an all time low. Yet every time, he somehow manages to lower the bar and sink lower and lower. It's somewhat entertaining but in a sad way.
Says the alt to sophisticatedlimabean / maralt.
I just updated my sig though, enjoy.
Originally by: lecrotta
Please please please keep posting.
Please please please keep crying more.
The tears are just mmmmmmmmmm.
I thought you weren't NMX? Why do you even care that he's a sad joke of a forum troll? Oh wait, I forgot you're his stranger/friend/brother/alt.
I'd say drop all the alt posting and get back on topic, but that would mean going back 50 or so pages in this thread, heh. I don't really care that you post with your alts, and I imagine you only care because your main got banned for ****posting in the first place. You're probably much more likely to get your alt banned though for ****posting with the alts like you're doing right now, than for just admitting you're the same RL player as NMX or just not making a big deal out of it to begin with.
I will say this though. This thread has convinced me though that there are things in this game sadder that blaster boats, and at least one of them plays on SiSi way too much.
I recommend you for not talking about who got banned or anything like that.
And because i already have reported lecrotta here, then the forum mods will soon look at this topic AGAIN, so i recommend you to take that thing away before they see it.
Anyways, i'm still NightmareX's brother. And yes, i'm not posting anything about Blasters / Mega now because everything have been said about Blasters / Mega. Prez21 summed it all up quite nicely.
NightmareX is not much on Sisi nowdays. He's maybe on Sisi for some few hours every week.
Originally by: lecrotta
/signed.
Yeah, you think you are any cool now because you say signed and then think your not any of the **** in this topic?.
Childstar, lecrotta, maralt, Fistme, Traderboz and the rest of the alts to sophisticatedlimabean does suffer from this problem. |
lecrotta
Minmatar
lecrotta Corp
|
Posted - 2009.04.15 20:14:00 -
[2120]
Originally by: Electric Universe
lies+rant
Post on topic or go away.
Sig removed, lacks EVE related content, trolls - Mitnal |
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CCP Mitnal
C C P
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Posted - 2009.04.15 20:16:00 -
[2121]
Locked.
This thread has been trolled to death.
Mitnal
Community Representative
CCP Hf, EVE Online
Contact us |
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