4.) You dont have to explain why Gallente ships need speed to me, I understand that. I was just explaining that CCP just got finished buffing speed, that's all. *Why* Gallenete ships need speed is a separate issue from whether or not CCP is going to buff it a second time before tackling the other issues that Gallente ships struggle with.

No, that is a complete impossibility. Drones will not attack a target for no reason, and that's exactly what it takes to call CONCORD down on your head.

Not fond of the changes to the Hulks.. It's like the most popular ship to gank in high sec so you boost the hp on the other 2 but not the one everybody uses, that one gets less and pretty much left alone.. What's the point in flying one now?? Meh subscription ends in 3 days may as well just let it laps.. Minecraft is more fun than eve these days...


v.

This game is an MMO which means group play is CCP's priority. I think they are trying to make the ideal situation for a hulk to be a well secured null sec system in a boosted mining fleet.

This fits in with what CCP has professed as goals all along which is to get more players in null for more emergent player driven gameplay. In order to justify having combat ships securing nearby systems to make a mining fleet safe then null sec mining will have to pay more than high sec. Making the Hulk mostly only useable in well secured null sec fits in with everything this game claims to be.

If you don't like null sec being more profitable than high sec then you don't like this game and no amount of changes will bring you back. IMHO you are arguing against the core goals of CCP and Eve with this comment.

The only problem to changing the hulk from the best roid rocker out there to something else will be the wave of miners freaking out because of changes to the hulk. Doing what you guys ^ have said would be interesting, but I think a lot of people would just leave the game/cause a ruckus just because they don't understand what is going on.

On a different note, I really hope CCP expands the ORE ship line. Right now we have 3 barges, an orca, a noctis, and a rorq. Since the frigates are loosing their mining bonus, we are getting a mining frig. Due to its mobility I have no choice but to believe that it is intended for ring mining (where mobility is key). Now that we know that cruisers are loosing their mining bonus, I would have to believe (or hope) that ORE will be debuting a new mining cruiser. It would be cool if the barges and their T2 counterparts were focused on ore mining, while their more traditional frigate/cruiser/(battleship?) hulls would be focused on ring mining (or gas harvesting). Perhaps CCP could add more hulls, or just make the cruiser hull focused on gas harvesting.

i thought ring mining will replace the belt mining and not be an completly new feature.

whilst your busy at fixing ships, fix the legion please.

I don't see how that is true. preconditions for warp are aligned and 75% of max speed. In a hulk if I hit warp it seems that I align much sooner than I hit 75% of max speed. Aligning does little to nothing to make you safer unless you are moving and if you are mining ideally you can't really move it messes up the results from the roid scanner thus fuxoring your yield.

Staying aligned and at 3/4 speed is just not a viable option and staying aligned and stopped is nearly useless.

Hey folks, thanks for the feedback, here are some answers for you.

[list]

DRONES USUALLY DON'T MIX WELL WITH LONG RANGE COMBAT DUE TO TRAVEL TIME; HOW DO YOU PLAN TO TACKLE THIS? Again, this is quite a bit early to tell, but an option is to have drone frigates provide a bonus to drone speed and tracking instead of just raw damage. Not only it avoids making them too much overpowering next to other frigates, but also provides an appealing purpose next to the larger drone hulls.

Yeah ring mining is supposed to be mining rocks for moon mins. I think they said it might be an infititely long string of rocks that you have to fly around and scan until you get something worthwhile (that's why I was hinting at frigs and cruisers for this because they are fast)

A properly tanked Hulk has enough EHP that it requires 3 Tornados to alpha it, at a cost of 210-270m Isk. Add some RR, to absolutely make Destroyer ganks (the vast majority of ganks) useless, and you need 6 Tornados to kill it, at a cost of some 420-540m Isk. A tanked Hulk is also unprofitable to gank with Catalysts.

The Hulk can tank plenty already.

Claiming otherwise because it can be suicide ganked at all is rediculous. Is a Damnation's tank too low because it's 1m EHP fit (1.7m v Quake) can be ganked? Of course not.

Also, go join a renter corp. No ebil PvPs required, but you do have to support the sov holders in another way.

...

Being full of **** seems to be your strong point.

Tanking a hulk to the eyeballs (aprox 30k EHP with maxed fleet shield bonus) means dropping two MLU's and even then it will be ganked by a pack dessies in high sec without any logistics support.

And with logistics support only the shield portion of the EHP really counts. Making the hulk no better the new mackinaw with does not require a list of prerequisites and far fetched fantasy IFs just to validate its role!.

As it stands, the only thing the hulk is any good at is maximum yield as all costs!
Don't pretend its tank able to the level you describe and then still imply that it is the best miner too!

I kind of had it with your bullshit as I said before and then ignored you, but since almost a week later your still fanatically bullshitting everyone, I decided to put my 2cents in this time. By the way, you can have that last word as your still not really worth discussing with!

Being full of **** seems to be your strong point.

Tanking a hulk to the eyeballs (aprox 30k EHP with maxed fleet shield bonus) means dropping two MLU's and even then it will be ganked by a pack dessies in high sec without any logistics support.

And with logistics support only the shield portion of the EHP really counts. Making the hulk no better the new mackinaw with does not require a list of prerequisites and far fetched fantasy IFs just to validate its role!.

As it stands, the only thing the hulk is any good at is maximum yield as all costs!
Don't pretend its tank able to the level you describe and then still imply that it is the best miner too!

I kind of had it with your bullshit as I said before and then ignored you, but since almost a week later your still fanatically bullshitting everyone, I decided to put my 2cents in this time. By the way, you can have that last word as your still not really worth discussing with!

Yeah... I gotta say that tornado ganking scenario doesn't sound right. A few destroyers can do the job, 4 at most... and those things are a dime per dozen...

RR says you're wrong.

I am not dedicating a RR guy in highsec (assuming I even have that luxury available). My corp mates would just stare at me like I am crazy. That is only a solution in your world.

I am not dedicating a RR guy in highsec (assuming I even have that luxury available). My corp mates would just stare at me like I am crazy. That is only a solution in your world.

If you are not going to do something that potentially works because your friends might think you're crazy, then stop complaining. CCP is giving you the tools. If you decide to not use a tool that could potentially make your life easier, than that is your choice.

Then don't. But it is a solution that raises the cost to gank with destroyers to 10-15 of them. Without RR, a destroyer gang will still lose money ganking you.

There are a few other options, that I will list here:

Here are some options you might try during this trying time.

1. Continue Mining like normal and Accept the losses
2. Continue Mining as normal but in a Covetor and Accept the losses
3. Mine in a Rokh, comfortably immune* to Suicide Ganks
4. Tank your Hulk and Accept a lower number of Losses from edge case profit based ganks.
5. Tank your Hulk with RR and be comfortable immune to Suicide Ganks
6. Mine in a Normally Fit Hulk but use a short range D-Scan to escape ganks
7. Set up safespots such that you can maintain a rough orbit in range of a roid by aligning to each BM in turn
8. Set up Hulks to Web each other, mine aligned to 1 SS at 7m/s (warpable speed) (can be done @ max yield)
9. Watch local for known gankers, accept the occasional gank from unknown ganks
10. Mine in Mission pockets
11. Mine in Grav Sites, occasionally scanning D-Scan
12. Tank your Hulk and have friends in BLAP AC Nados ready to shoot (one should kill a Cat before you die, failing the gank)
13. Tank your Hulk and have friends with ECM
14. Tank your Hulk and run 5x Med ECM drones and accept that you'll die if they fail
15. Mine in Lowsec (can be done solo in a quiet system)
16. Mine in Null (can be done solo in a quiet NPC sov system)
17. Mine in WH space

*all cases of immunity from Suicide Ganks assume profit-based ganks. Non-Profit based ganks are rare and are not something that can be negated by game mechanics changes besides eliminating ganks, thus can be ignored.

All of these options have advantages and disadvantages. All of them will work. Not all of them are perfect.

I am not complaining. I am countering all these ******* fantasy miners that like to play backseat driver. Seriously... I have been trying to stop at point number ******* 1 over here... as that's WHAT I DO ALL ******* DAY. And as if that didnt make all your other points completly moot, I also do numbers 4, 9, 11, and 17....


Seriously... I just want to take all of you guys and lock you in a room together, then have you fight to the death over who knows the best route to the nearest applebees... Then I'll take the survivor, drop him off at a Chinese restaurant, and then go by myself to schlotzkys where I will proceed to eat in peace!

Hey folks, thanks for the feedback, here are some answers for you.

[list]

WILL EXHUMER SHIP SPECIALIZATIONS BE AFFECTED BY SUCH CHANGES? Most likely not, except maybe for the Skiff as mentioned above.

In the real world, the Destroyer was a screening ship to cover the weaknesses of larger vessels. It primary role was never that of bombardment although as is true with any ship with guns, it could and sometimes did. One of the biggest roles a destroyer plays is protecting it's larger fleetmates from the silent and stealthy submarines.


Rather then making destroyers specialized in bombarding planets....I'd like to see a destroyer model that specialized in hunting cloaked ships. I can not say what the proper mechanics would be, that would take a lot of time and theory crafting, but this seems like the best use of the destroyer line.