Originally by: WormSwarm

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Edited by: WormSwarm on 22/04/2010 01:27:51
There is a 2nd story to tell here

How many people that are apart of this witch hunt, are also apart of the isk sellers problem in Eve. You are dealing with people that want to protect their business, and they will do anything to have perfectly running Macros. Proof on how they will even perform exploits ingame to try and 'prove' that a player might be using a specific technique to catch their macro programs.

Proof that you can trick the client, only shows that there is a bug (if the experiment can be repeated by other parties also). But how does that tie up a player to that? Is there any proof at all by anyone that the player that has been mentioned here actually did this? Any at all?

Clearly after reading/skipping through alot of the 'content' in these 25/26 pages, there is No Proof. But there is 'proof' that there might be a bug.

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Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha

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Quote:

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Monkey killed a lot of macro users and there were no troubles. But his recent victims were good russian pilots (not macrousers)! That's why russians began this thread

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I suppose a non macro user who went attacked by an "invisible" player would immediately post a screenshot showing his ship being attacked / blown up while in local no one else is apparently present.
I know I'd do.

What's preventing those "good pilots" from doing that?

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Originally by: WormSwarm

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There is a 2nd story to tell here

How many people that are apart of this witch hunt, are also apart of the isk sellers problem in Eve. You are dealing with people that want to protect their business, and they will do anything to have perfectly running Macros. Proof on how they will even perform exploits ingame to try and 'prove' that a player might be using a specific technique to catch their macro programs.

Proof that you can trick the client, only shows that there is a bug (if the experiment can be repeated by other parties also). But how does that tie up a player to that? Is there any proof at all by anyone that the player that has been mentioned here actually did this? Any at all?

Clearly after reading/skipping through alot of the 'content' in these 25/26.

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Originally by: Ranka Mei

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This is exactly the sort of thing I suspected a few pages back.

Client-server uses UDP to transmit packets.

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Quote:

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It's in the nature of UDP (as broadcasting protocol) that packets aren't waited for,

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Originally by: MatrixSkye Mk2

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Originally by: Flinx Evenstar

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Loving this thread, so many rabbits, looking down holes, none of them saw the shotgun.

MatrixSkye do you remember why you are called MatrixSkye 2. I do.

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Do you really? I biomassed Mk1 only to then realize I'd like to keep him around. Hence, Mk2. Don't remember telling anyone though. But there you have it. Now if only Pandemic Legion was as forthcoming :) But I suppose that would be too much to ask for, so carry on with the obvious thread derailment. Your cheat is out in the open now.

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Originally by: I SoStoned

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Edited by: I SoStoned on 22/04/2010 00:25:07

Originally by: Salastil

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Originally by: I SoStoned

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25 pages and not a peep from GMs or even Devs.

The plot thickens.

Where can I get this app? :D

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It can only be launched from a script on the PL.com forums. You literally need the website open when launching Eve for the inject to work. This is why you'll never see it outside of PL ranks.

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This is Eve. Someone will yank the code and patch around it soon enough, then it'll be wormhole space everywhere.

Imagine it... you jump into local, you're all alone and warp to a belt. Holy Jebus on a crutch, there's twenty hulks and three rorquals here!!!11one

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Originally by: species2143

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Dude take a chill pill, the issue has just recently been brought out in the open and already you're putting pressure onto CCP? FFS, they need to verify it and if you had any clue about how the client-side application works, you'd know CCP is not a GESTPO that logs everything you do... in fact it's the very opposite.

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Originally by: Tonto Auri

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Originally by: species2143

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Dude take a chill pill, the issue has just recently been brought out in the open and already you're putting pressure onto CCP? FFS, they need to verify it and if you had any clue about how the client-side application works, you'd know CCP is not a GESTPO that logs everything you do... in fact it's the very opposite.

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For example, in two games I've been working for, they DO LOG EVERYTHING.
Every your shell spent, every point of cap used, everything is logged.
For thousands of characters interacting in the game world. For exactly this same reason - to track player actions and have data on hand if anything goes wrong.
I understand that EVE is "a bit" bigger in scale, but so it spreaded across the cluster, and every single node load is relatively small and very comparable to the load of single game server of any other "MMO" game (frankly, after EVE, no other game feels even close to the first "M" in "MMO" to be prepended by that abbreviation without quotes). Thus I can't see why it's not possible to log every action performed on a node.

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Originally by: WormSwarm

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Edited by: WormSwarm on 22/04/2010 01:54:41
Edited by: WormSwarm on 22/04/2010 01:54:21
Clearly either you can't read or your playing dumb for a reason.

I'm just asking, How does proving a bug exist, prove that this player was doing it?

Linking to his stack of km's is not proof.

Use reason and logic, and if there is any proof that links exploits with that person. Then clearly something should be done. But since there is only proof that a exploit exists. Then what is on with the continuation of linking this person to using exploits?

To me this looks purely as a witch hunt, and as people that live in the 21st century, maybe we should of known better to not do such things? We should know better from those before us.

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Originally by: Zeba

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Originally by: dumpertt

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not all americans are exploiters, however a lot of cheats are used by them.

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Don't blame america for our immigrants actions. Sheesh do you expect us to change their cultural ways overnight just because they moved here?

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Originally by: Lady Karma

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Have the guys hacking the client managed to make a fraps yet where they are not in local and then appear just before they scramble the macro bot? Don't they all say he is local when he tackles them, bit like what happens when you log in...

The hack they are using to make the crappy "proof" vids needs a restart before the pilot appears in local. So basically nothing like what monkey is doing unless he can manage to relog his client while still keeping the bot tackled, maybe that's another exploit you should look into.

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Originally by: Ellatan Deruimte

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I never asked him to "reappear" again, but I'm pretty sure it's doable.

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Originally by: Admiral RAGE

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Originally by: Tonto Auri

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Originally by: species2143

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Dude take a chill pill, the issue has just recently been brought out in the open and already you're putting pressure onto CCP? FFS, they need to verify it and if you had any clue about how the client-side application works, you'd know CCP is not a GESTPO that logs everything you do... in fact it's the very opposite.

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For example, in two games I've been working for, they DO LOG EVERYTHING.
Every your shell spent, every point of cap used, everything is logged.
For thousands of characters interacting in the game world. For exactly this same reason - to track player actions and have data on hand if anything goes wrong.
I understand that EVE is "a bit" bigger in scale, but so it spreaded across the cluster, and every single node load is relatively small and very comparable to the load of single game server of any other "MMO" game (frankly, after EVE, no other game feels even close to the first "M" in "MMO" to be prepended by that abbreviation without quotes). Thus I can't see why it's not possible to log every action performed on a node.

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how do you know the logs don't show it? Have you seen the logs? I'm pretty sure that like the rest of the thread, this is all based on ******ed suppositions and no remotely concrete evidence.

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Originally by: Orephia

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& Grath was willing to sell me his bridge, losing his only place to sleep, to keep covering this PL UI up...epic sacrifice to the cause

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Originally by: Lady Karma

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Originally by: Ellatan Deruimte

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I never asked him to "reappear" again, but I'm pretty sure it's doable.

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I'm pretty too.

So I can expect the fraps of someone being invisible and then appearing as he scrambles the bot tomorrow, or shall I call the date off.

Or maybe, how about the fraps or a screen shot of the accused doing it, and not the same old pictures of macro bots incriminating themselves by demonstrating their ability to manipulate the client.

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Originally by: Tonto Auri

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Originally by: Zeba

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Originally by: dumpertt

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not all americans are exploiters, however a lot of cheats are used by them.

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Don't blame america for our immigrants actions. Sheesh do you expect us to change their cultural ways overnight just because they moved here?

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Didn't you forgot that 90% of americans are immigrants? Or who's native american people?

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Originally by: Amarr Supremacist

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Yeah, it(Jaguar) almost has cruiser level tank and gank!

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Originally by: Zeba

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I'm talking about the spat of immigrants ranging from around 1960 to present day. Most of them come from rather dystopian cultures so they have to be figured into the representative masses if you want to finger america for nefarious online deeds.

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