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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |
Zeba
Minmatar
Honourable East India Trading Company
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Posted - 2010.04.21 08:43:00 -
[481]
 Originally by: Vicomte de'Bragelonne
Originally by: Zeba
Also kudos to PL for abusing a massive bug
Fixed for you.
Not really. Abusing it would have meant totally ingnoring this thread and going on to kill thousands moar. You obviously have no idea how the QA process works for game mechanic exploits in eve. Just like bacon this will be quietly coded out of the game.
Originally by: CCP Zymurgist
Get off the forums and go kill someone!
Originally by: Amarr Supremacist
Yeah, it(Jaguar) almost has cruiser level tank and gank!
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Vicomte de'Bragelonne
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Posted - 2010.04.21 08:49:00 -
[482]
Originally by: Zeba
Originally by: Vicomte de'Bragelonne
Originally by: Zeba
Also kudos to PL for abusing a massive bug
Fixed for you.
Not really. Abusing it would have meant totally ingnoring this thread and going on to kill thousands moar. You obviously have no idea how the QA process works for game mechanic exploits in eve. Just like bacon this will be quietly coded out of the game.
totally ingnoring this thread and going on to kill thousands moar.
Obviously i have no idea of what is bug abuse. Sorry.
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Zeba
Minmatar
Honourable East India Trading Company
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Posted - 2010.04.21 08:51:00 -
[483]
Originally by: Vicomte de'Bragelonne
Originally by: Zeba
Originally by: Vicomte de'Bragelonne
Originally by: Zeba
Also kudos to PL for abusing a massive bug
Fixed for you.
Not really. Abusing it would have meant totally ingnoring this thread and going on to kill thousands moar. You obviously have no idea how the QA process works for game mechanic exploits in eve. Just like bacon this will be quietly coded out of the game.
totally ingnoring this thread and going on to kill thousands moar.
Obviously i have no idea of what is bug abuse. Sorry.
Don't blame PL if CCP is too slow to fix obvious gameplay exploit issues that PL was kind enough to figure out and 'report' on.
Originally by: CCP Zymurgist
Get off the forums and go kill someone!
Originally by: Amarr Supremacist
Yeah, it(Jaguar) almost has cruiser level tank and gank!
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baltec1
Antares Shipyards
Aeternus.
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Posted - 2010.04.21 08:52:00 -
[484]
Originally by: Vicomte de'Bragelonne
Obviously i have no idea of what is bug abuse. Sorry.
The russians and many others have been abusing macros for years, lets get that sorted first as there is already a counter to the monkey man.
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Ranka Mei
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.04.21 09:09:00 -
[485]
Originally by: ewwlooki
hey monkey,
you dont know me well, but i know where you learned your trade, in fact just this evening I was able to boot up my old comp and dl the screenshots from MIRC in the #Hax0r channel on the server I wont name, the conversations between yourself, the australian and the russian are awesome. the night you guys got 42 arby cruise launchers when they were still expenensive was nice. maybe we should talk about a price in game sent to my other account, since when I send the shots to ccp, Im pretty sure Im banned too.
I say: do it. Nail his a** the wall.
To all the naysayers, the above is proof. At least as good as it's going to get in a thread: a first-hand witness having seen Monkey on a hacking channel learning his trade. What more do you want? Forensic evidence? No other player can provide that, as only CCP itself can examine their server traffic.
Originally by: Grath Telkin
It seems the russian forums may be working out whats going on, and the consensus is that whatever your doing, can't be recreated on the live server, and that all the other screen shots are fakes (this is from their mouths), and that monkey is indeed working with in the game mechanics.
They haven't yet figured out how he's doing it, yet they can tell for sure he's working within the game mechanics, this is what you're saying, right?
Either way you slice it, people, finding ways to not show up in local (whereas you should) is an exploit. I know there's a lot of folks on this thread who think it's kinda cool. But it isn't. It breaks the game; and yes, eventually even for you.
Originally by: Jana Solaris
He's using a packet sniffer to single out the chatserver. How exactly he does it isn't clear but afaik it is similair to when you have severe lag and your chat windows don't load.
And even that is expressly verboten by the EVE Online TERMS OF SERVICE,
"21.You will not attempt to decipher, hack into or interfere with any transmissions to or from the EVE Online servers,"
As is:
"23.You may not exploit any bug in EVE Online to gain an unfair advantage over other players."
So, CCP, please put a stop to this exploit and the people who use it
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Gorgeous, delicious, deculture! |
MisterAl tt1
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Posted - 2010.04.21 09:33:00 -
[486]
Originally by: Ranka Mei
Originally by: Grath Telkin
It seems the russian forums may be working out whats going on, and the consensus is that whatever your doing, can't be recreated on the live server, and that all the other screen shots are fakes (this is from their mouths), and that monkey is indeed working with in the game mechanics.
They haven't yet figured out how he's doing it, yet they can tell for sure he's working within the game mechanics, this is what you're saying, right?
Don't pay attention. He is lying to protect his co-corp and, mb, his own ..s. THe idea on eve-ru is the same as it was - there is a bug and the accused uses it.
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Ranka Mei
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.04.21 09:41:00 -
[487]
Originally by: MisterAl tt1
Don't pay attention. He is lying to protect his co-corp and, mb, his own ..s. THe idea on eve-ru is the same as it was - there is a bug and the accused uses it.
Well, I don't speak Russian. :) So keep us posted.
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Gorgeous, delicious, deculture! |
MisterAl tt1
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Posted - 2010.04.21 09:59:00 -
[488]
At present the idea is: will CCP fix the bug, as it was reported, or should it go public for CCP to start working?
I suppose monkey will not be banned even if the bug proved to be - looks like it is not logged, who was present in the channel, thus there will be no evidences against him.
Someone thinks that he was able to even create "fleet channel" with his victims, making the client think he is in fleet with them - to warp to. But I think he scanned them down.
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chrisss0r
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Posted - 2010.04.21 10:03:00 -
[489]
Originally by: MisterAl tt1
Someone thinks that he was able to even create "fleet channel" with his victims, making the client think he is in fleet with them - to warp to. But I think he scanned them down.
yeah i think thats a bit paranoid. why would he risk a hac like this if he can't be seen in local and has all the time in the world anyways.
well i really wonder if ccp will comment on this
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Mr Kidd
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Posted - 2010.04.21 10:15:00 -
[490]
Originally by: Grath Telkin
Quote:
Hacking or exploit is doesn't matter. It needs to be stopped one way or the other by CCP.
And if its neither of those?
Oh I'm pretty sure not showing up in local in normal space until one desires it is at best an exploit. There's a simple test for an exploit: Is it an intended game feature? I don't have to be a dev to answer that.
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Bobbechk
North Eastern Swat
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2010.04.21 10:33:00 -
[491]
You people are looking in the wrong direction, this all started the day i made Monkey new sig that just happened to be so awesome that in fact it removed him from local and made him be able to warp to random ppl in space!
For these very awsome sigs i do charge a bit extra but i tell you ppl its worth it...
________
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Certero
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Posted - 2010.04.21 10:46:00 -
[492]
Originally by: Bobbechk
You people are looking in the wrong direction,
Is it a joke? Nevertheless, guys on eve-ru searching in different directions now: delaying appearing in local (sniffer), warp to any object to 0 (python injections) an so on (fleet invite without victims decision and many other tricks that ccp decided to leave on client side). Somebody need to test all this things to check what is possible. Thanks to Monkey now we know that there is a lot to hack here... but i want to have good old eve...
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Ellatan Deruimte
Surreal corp
Stain Empire
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Posted - 2010.04.21 10:47:00 -
[493]
Edited by: Ellatan Deruimte on 21/04/2010 10:48:07
The exploit does exist, I was very skeptical of it at first, but there is a proof now, it can be recreated. CCP should at least acknowledge it and try to work out a solution as well as punish the abusers.
Can we please get some CCP response in this topic with assurance, that they are looking into this issue.
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MatrixSkye Mk2
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.04.21 10:51:00 -
[494]
Originally by: Zeba
Don't blame PL if CCP is too slow to fix obvious gameplay exploit issues that PL was kind enough to figure out and 'report' on.
Oh yeah. It's true. Pandemic Legion has been very forthcoming and honest in this thread. No attempt at derailing or covering their tracks. They've been totally forthcoming. Kudos to PL for bringing this to CCP's attention and all. I mean, isn't it obvious?
Grief a PVP'er. Run a mission today! |
Davader
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Posted - 2010.04.21 10:54:00 -
[495]
Where are all those men, who were saying somehting about "login trap", "perfect scanning skills", ect? LOL. The exploit surely exists, now there are proofs. Now let's see, how long it will take CCP to perform all appropriate actions...
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Vahrokh Consulting
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Posted - 2010.04.21 11:02:00 -
[496]
Quote:
Now let's see, how long it will take CCP to perform all appropriate actions
Probably a timeframe comparable to how long they took to remove all the macros and RMTers off the game.
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Auditing & consulting
When looking for investors, please read
http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
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Caine Dreamwalker
Gallente
The Scope
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Posted - 2010.04.21 11:08:00 -
[497]
Edited by: Caine Dreamwalker on 21/04/2010 11:09:44
It would be kinda fun if CCP is implementing logging mechanic for this exploit right now and will ban anybody trying to reproduce it. Though I'm pretty sure that banhammer threat will be the first step CCP takes - social solution is always easier to implement than software solution.
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Vincent Gaines
Macabre Votum
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Posted - 2010.04.21 11:10:00 -
[498]
Why are all these Russian "ratters" not shoing any corp/alliance ticker? I'm at work so can't tell but are they all in NPC corps?
I just find it odd and that they all seem like the same person...
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Ellatan Deruimte
Surreal corp
Stain Empire
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Posted - 2010.04.21 11:12:00 -
[499]
Originally by: Vincent Gaines
Why are all these Russian "ratters" not shoing any corp/alliance ticker? I'm at work so can't tell but are they all in NPC corps?
I just find it odd and that they all seem like the same person...
Because they generally don't post on EVE-O and don't know English well to figure out the interface quickly.
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Certero
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Posted - 2010.04.21 11:16:00 -
[500]
Originally by: Vincent Gaines
I just find it odd and that they all seem like the same person...
You can ask Monkey how many russians are discussing this theme on eve-ru (there are players from many corps and alliances). But we are sorry, too few of us can post here with "not very bad" english. So, ccp will get petitions from each victim but here you can read only 3-5 of us.
PS: or you can register at eve-ru and find all ingame names and corp tickers you are interested in.
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Lubomir Penev
interimo
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Posted - 2010.04.21 11:19:00 -
[501]
Originally by: Mr Kidd
Originally by: Grath Telkin
Quote:
Hacking or exploit is doesn't matter. It needs to be stopped one way or the other by CCP.
And if its neither of those?
Oh I'm pretty sure not showing up in local in normal space until one desires it is at best an exploit.
If you ever logged off you are guilty of exploiting too then. He login trap them and use the ******ed mechanics permitting to travel while offline, you know the one that has been abused by freighters pilots in hostile space since theirs inceptions.
The problem is login/logout mechanics being ******ed. Usually they benefit the one not wanting to fight, it's pretty nice to see a change of scenery.
And if the ratting macro wasn't reliably always jumping to the same safe as soon as someone enter local he would not catch them...
--
081014 : emoragequit, char transfered to a friend, 090317 : back to original owner
blog |
Silent Wispa
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Posted - 2010.04.21 11:25:00 -
[502]
Originally by: Certero
Originally by: Bobbechk
You people are looking in the wrong direction,
Is it a joke? Nevertheless, guys on eve-ru searching in different directions now: delaying appearing in local (sniffer), warp to any object to 0 (python injections) an so on (fleet invite without victims decision and many other tricks that ccp decided to leave on client side). Somebody need to test all this things to check what is possible. Thanks to Monkey now we know that there is a lot to hack here... but i want to have good old eve...
Let me get this straight...
In approximately 2 or 3 days a bunch of Russians scratching their heads as to why their Macro Program is failing to save them from a notorious pirate have managed to knock up working programs that produce the effect by blocking iTraffic to the Eve Chatserver as well as various python injections for warpins and fleet tricks on the assumption that this must be what he's doing?
Cripes, ban the Russians, they seem to be much more prolific hackers.
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Ellatan Deruimte
Surreal corp
Stain Empire
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Posted - 2010.04.21 11:28:00 -
[503]
Edited by: Ellatan Deruimte on 21/04/2010 11:35:36
Originally by: Lubomir Penev
If you ever logged off you are guilty of exploiting too then. He login trap them and use the ******ed mechanics permitting to travel while offline, you know the one that has been abused by freighters pilots in hostile space since theirs inceptions.
The problem is login/logout mechanics being ******ed. Usually they benefit the one not wanting to fight, it's pretty nice to see a change of scenery.
And if the ratting macro wasn't reliably always jumping to the same safe as soon as someone enter local he would not catch them...
Have you seen the videos and screenshots? There is nothing wrong with login traps, CCP doesn't consider it an exploit and nobody is complaining about them. Monkeysphere doesn't appear in local while he looks for people in an arazu, that's an exploit. It was recreated on a test server with proof presented.
We would like CCP to fix this bug and punish the people, who were abusing it. Unfortunately, it doesn't look like GMs can pick up on anything in their logs, which makes this exploit potentially very dangerous.
Originally by: Silent Wispa
Let me get this straight...
In approximately 2 or 3 days a bunch of Russians scratching their heads as to why their Macro Program is failing to save them from a notorious pirate have managed to knock up working programs that produce the effect by blocking iTraffic to the Eve Chatserver as well as various python injections for warpins and fleet tricks on the assumption that this must be what he's doing?
Cripes, ban the Russians, they seem to be much more prolific hackers.
The only reason this bug was relatively unnoticed for such a long time is because Monkeysphere was indeed targeting the macrobots, who don't write petitions, don't complain and just buy a new ship and continue on. However, recently he made a mistake of killing actual players, who actually play their accounts while ratting. That was his biggest mistake and downfall.
It only took 50 pages of a threadnought on EVE-RU forums to figure out the bug and recreate an exploit. Nobody believed them at first, but it proved to be real. We all hate macro bots and they should be banned, but so should be the exploiters. Let GMs deal with macro bots, killing them and regular players by the use of an exploit doesn't make you a hero.
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Certero
Hades and Charon funeral parlour
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Posted - 2010.04.21 11:29:00 -
[504]
Edited by: Certero on 21/04/2010 11:30:23
Originally by: Silent Wispa
Cripes, ban the Russians, they seem to be much more prolific hackers.
It's not funny to answer same thing in 100th time. You may think that we defend our bots. And only ccp knows truth. You may think anything you like - no more comments on "bots" topic from me...
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Davader
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Posted - 2010.04.21 11:30:00 -
[505]
You don't undersatnd... If Monkey would kill only bots - nobody would complain, lol. But he begun to use his cheat against live players, who were just ratting in the area. That's the difference.
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Ded MATAP
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Posted - 2010.04.21 11:33:00 -
[506]
Originally by: Silent Wispa
Originally by: Certero
Originally by: Bobbechk
You people are looking in the wrong direction,
Is it a joke? Nevertheless, guys on eve-ru searching in different directions now: delaying appearing in local (sniffer), warp to any object to 0 (python injections) an so on (fleet invite without victims decision and many other tricks that ccp decided to leave on client side). Somebody need to test all this things to check what is possible. Thanks to Monkey now we know that there is a lot to hack here... but i want to have good old eve...
Let me get this straight...
In approximately 2 or 3 days a bunch of Russians scratching their heads as to why their Macro Program is failing to save them from a notorious pirate have managed to knock up working programs that produce the effect by blocking iTraffic to the Eve Chatserver as well as various python injections for warpins and fleet tricks on the assumption that this must be what he's doing?
Cripes, ban the Russians, they seem to be much more prolific hackers.
Okay. Its 2-3 days, right. But can you tell me why russians dont start this mindstorm earlier?
Morever. There is legal bugreport sended. Any queston?
I wonder if Pandemics send bugreport when they found this exploit...
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Certero
Hades and Charon funeral parlour
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Posted - 2010.04.21 11:34:00 -
[507]
Originally by: Davader
You don't undersatnd... If Monkey would kill only bots - nobody would complain, lol. But he begun to use his cheat against live players, who were just ratting in the area. That's the difference.
They just want to post and don't want to think... Number of people explained bots/not-bots situation on each page, but there are people who think they are very clever to post "bots-jokes" again and again... and theye will be here always.
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Vincent Gaines
Macabre Votum
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Posted - 2010.04.21 11:35:00 -
[508]
Originally by: Certero
Originally by: Vincent Gaines
I just find it odd and that they all seem like the same person...
You can ask Monkey how many russians are discussing this theme on eve-ru (there are players from many corps and alliances). But we are sorry, too few of us can post here with "not very bad" english. So, ccp will get petitions from each victim but here you can read only 3-5 of us.
PS: or you can register at eve-ru and find all ingame names and corp tickers you are interested in.
спасибо
Nah, but putting *something* there makes you all seem less like alts or farmers.
and I'm trying to learn Russian but nowhere enar able to read anything yet.
EDIT: FFFFFUUUUU CCP I'm tired of logging in 23 times just to post!
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Ranka Mei
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.04.21 11:35:00 -
[509]
Originally by: Certero
Is it a joke? Nevertheless, guys on eve-ru searching in different directions now: delaying appearing in local (sniffer), warp to any object to 0 (python injections) an so on (fleet invite without victims decision and many other tricks that ccp decided to leave on client side).
This is exactly the sort of thing I suspected a few pages back.
Client-server uses UDP to transmit packets. It's in the nature of UDP (as broadcasting protocol) that packets aren't waited for, and then time out after a long wait, but that if the server misses one of your packets (or vice versa), it just picks up on the next one. So, say I transmit position X.1, X.2, X.3, the server could well receive only packets 1 and 3. The ingame-effect would be negligible, and at best appear as lag ('jittery' gameplay). Unless... someone were to fake such packets, and transport himself forward, at any desired location, and transmits, say, X.1, (don't send), X.20 or so. A bit more complex to implement, of course; but you get the gist.
Is there a defense against such hacks? Sure, it would be relatively easy to inspect each packet against the previous one received from you, and see whether things add up, position-wise and such. Some margin of error actually would need to be allowed, as people sometimes really *do* genuinely lag; but magical transports half across the system should be noticed easily. That is, if you wanted to track such. Because that's not why you used UDP, of course. Inspecting such streams, for all players, would require imposible loads on your database server (as all previous and current locations would need to be stored); and I'm sure bandwidth would suffer greatly too. But for individual users, I'm sure it can be traced pretty easily. And I hope CCP do.
--
Gorgeous, delicious, deculture! |
Corbeau Lenoir
ZER0.
IT Alliance
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Posted - 2010.04.21 11:41:00 -
[510]
Originally by: Lubomir Penev
If you ever logged off you are guilty of exploiting too then. He login trap them and use the ******ed mechanics permitting to travel while offline, you know the one that has been abused by freighters pilots in hostile space since theirs inceptions.
The problem is login/logout mechanics being ******ed. Usually they benefit the one not wanting to fight, it's pretty nice to see a change of scenery.
And if the ratting macro wasn't reliably always jumping to the same safe as soon as someone enter local he would not catch them...
Stop trying to derail this thread and justify this exploiter. Just look at his killboard and the kills' timeframe . It's normal to catch one raven in hour or so, but in this case obviously something fishy is going on.
And there are proofs that bug exits, which allows to not show up in the local.
The case is clear for me and I'm just waiting for CCP's response now.
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