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Jeremey Glittering Dust	Posted - 2010.04.23 04:41:00 - [1171] Edited by: Jeremey on 23/04/2010 04:43:39 Originally by: Raivi Most likely scenario here is CCP fixes the exploit, Monkey keeps killing macros, affected Russians continue to froth at the mouth and search for a new exploit to pin on him, they find a new exploit It's hardly so, because, honestly, how many time you saw a situation when someone accused in using an exploit and then literally in days a new exploit that allows literally the same is found? You're trying to paint these situation in such way that russians found the found the exploit that allows the same that The Monkeysphere do - that it's just coincidence. But on top of such "coincidence" lays "coincidence" of PL's killboard comments about "local exploit" near Monkey's killmails, "coincidence" in his victim's testimonies about him not appearing in local, and so on, and so on. Also don't follow the path of your alliance trolls: don't forget that this whole drama started not because of some "russian macrofarmers" - they don't post on eve-o forums, after all. It started from testimony of The Monkeysphere's victim, who lost marauder to him in X-Type fitting - clearly, he is not a macrobot.
Ellatan Deruimte Surreal corp Stain Empire	Posted - 2010.04.23 04:41:00 - [1172] Originally by: Raivi Well first I want to say good job working on plugging this exploit, and I sure hope that the huhuhu guy is going to send all the code directly to CCP. I also hope that he doesn't get banned for his efforts to improve the game the way a certain unnameable member of PL was when he exposed a major exploit. I won't be able to play whack a mole and recreate every personal testimony that people make, but I noticed how much people were underestimating the power of logon traps for catching macros. I'm seeing two fallacies repeated in these threads over and over again: 1) that the e-warp prevents a logon trap from catching a macro or person watching the screen closely. 2) that every kill Monkey makes has to use the same tactic (people claiming that a streak of kills once every few days proves he's exploiting as if every other good soloer in the game doesn't get streaks of easy kills when they find stupid people in 0.0) Most likely scenario here is CCP fixes the exploit, Monkey keeps killing macros, affected Russians continue to froth at the mouth and search for a new exploit to pin on him, they find a new exploit, ccp fixes the new one, and the cycle repeats forever with Eve getting less buggy and a bunch of very frustrated macroratters unable to sleep at night because Monkeysphere might be in their closet. Win win. You are missing the entire point of this thread then. This thread is not about macrobotters. Nobody cares about them, their owners do not post on the forums. It's extremely xenophobic of you to accuse all of the Russians posting here of using macros. I'm Russian for example, I don't run bots, neither do them. People who posted about their losses were ratting in very expensive marauders, not running bots. Judging from your video I'm not even sure what's faster, an e-warp from a ceptor or the demonstration that you showed, which I provided a possible explanation for without any "special" game mechanics. I hope that no local bug will be fixed, because it does exist. As far as Monkeysphere, who cares really, we'll see how it turns out. If he was exploiting, and CCP cannot track those things, then he will be unpunished in any case.
Lee Kin	Posted - 2010.04.23 04:50:00 - [1173] Cut the sh*t, every time more proof is posted a little ground is given. I have seen him do the very things that were reproduced on the test server. I have , as well as many others saw him pass by without being in local chat. This is like the t20 incident in alot of ways. When people finally nail your hide to a post with a mountain of evidence you will finally admit it. But this is way to much work for everyone every time to extract a little truth.Just come clean and move on.
Raivi Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2010.04.23 04:53:00 - [1174] Edited by: Raivi on 23/04/2010 04:56:05 Originally by: Ellatan Deruimte Although an easy explanation comes to my mind right away: 1) dominix anchors a mobile 2) log off pilgrim in mobile 3) deanchor mobile with Dominix 4) log on pilgrim 5) ... 5) profit! There are no exploits! (or do something similar with a dictor bubble) That would work (dictor bubble would be much easier) although it's not the specific trick I used in the video. Could have used a third character with a dictor to achieve the same results but the technique I used in the video has the advantage of being doable with only one character. Originally by: Ellatan Deruimte Originally by: Raivi Well first I want to say good job working on plugging this exploit, and I sure hope that the huhuhu guy is going to send all the code directly to CCP. I also hope that he doesn't get banned for his efforts to improve the game the way a certain unnameable member of PL was when he exposed a major exploit. I won't be able to play whack a mole and recreate every personal testimony that people make, but I noticed how much people were underestimating the power of logon traps for catching macros. I'm seeing two fallacies repeated in these threads over and over again: 1) that the e-warp prevents a logon trap from catching a macro or person watching the screen closely. 2) that every kill Monkey makes has to use the same tactic (people claiming that a streak of kills once every few days proves he's exploiting as if every other good soloer in the game doesn't get streaks of easy kills when they find stupid people in 0.0) Most likely scenario here is CCP fixes the exploit, Monkey keeps killing macros, affected Russians continue to froth at the mouth and search for a new exploit to pin on him, they find a new exploit, ccp fixes the new one, and the cycle repeats forever with Eve getting less buggy and a bunch of very frustrated macroratters unable to sleep at night because Monkeysphere might be in their closet. Win win. You are missing the entire point of this thread then. This thread is not about ma ---------------------------------------------
dumpertt	Posted - 2010.04.23 04:57:00 - [1175] Raivi, are you ready to catch me in 4 minutes? i've never been killed by monkey, btw.
Raivi Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2010.04.23 04:59:00 - [1176] Originally by: Ellatan Deruimte Originally by: Raivi Well first I want to say good job working on plugging this exploit, and I sure hope that the huhuhu guy is going to send all the code directly to CCP. I also hope that he doesn't get banned for his efforts to improve the game the way a certain unnameable member of PL was when he exposed a major exploit. I won't be able to play whack a mole and recreate every personal testimony that people make, but I noticed how much people were underestimating the power of logon traps for catching macros. I'm seeing two fallacies repeated in these threads over and over again: 1) that the e-warp prevents a logon trap from catching a macro or person watching the screen closely. 2) that every kill Monkey makes has to use the same tactic (people claiming that a streak of kills once every few days proves he's exploiting as if every other good soloer in the game doesn't get streaks of easy kills when they find stupid people in 0.0) Most likely scenario here is CCP fixes the exploit, Monkey keeps killing macros, affected Russians continue to froth at the mouth and search for a new exploit to pin on him, they find a new exploit, ccp fixes the new one, and the cycle repeats forever with Eve getting less buggy and a bunch of very frustrated macroratters unable to sleep at night because Monkeysphere might be in their closet. Win win. You are missing the entire point of this thread then. This thread is not about macrobotters. Nobody cares about them, their owners do not post on the forums. It's extremely xenophobic of you to accuse all of the Russians posting here of using macros. I'm Russian for example, I don't run bots, neither do them. People who posted about their losses were ratting in very expensive marauders, not running bots. Judging from your video I'm not even sure what's faster, an e-warp from a ceptor or the demonstration that you showed, which I provided a possible explanation for without any "special" game mechanics. I hope that no local bug will be fixed, because it does exist. As far as Monkeysphere, who cares really, we'll see how it turns out. If he was exploiting, and CCP cannot track those things, then he will be unpunished in any case. I had a whole post written here but it got accidentally deleted when I edited the post to answer another point as well. Suffice to say I did not intend to be xenophobic, but my assertion that this is a witchhunt that will never end even if proof is given stands. If Monkey keeps killing after the exploit is fixed all that will change is the victims will start searching for a new exploit to pin on him. ---------------------------------------------
Jeremey Glittering Dust	Posted - 2010.04.23 05:03:00 - [1177] Edited by: Jeremey on 23/04/2010 05:05:19 Edited by: Jeremey on 23/04/2010 05:05:01 Originally by: Raivi In the case of my demonstration, a macro that logs off and a player that log off when neutrals enter local are effectively equivalent targets. Macros are simply the extreme case in that they can log off faster than any real player and are therefore harder to catch via normal means. Except that player will not login after 3-5 minutes being in marauder that costs 3bil. He will scout with an alt or ask corpmates in TeamSpeak to post message in secure channel. They eve can use this marauder as bait - but monkeysphere have very low count of losses, so somehow against him baits were used miracolously very rarely! Originally by: Raivi My comment about affected Russians was not meant to insinuate that all Russians are macroratters, but I stand by my point that the goal of this thread has not been to explore game mechanics for their own sake but to find at all costs an illegal explanation for Monkeysphere's ability. I'm happy that an actual exploit has been found along the way, but that doesn't change the origin of this whole thing (and yes I've read the translated Russian thread that spawned this one). People being killed by Monkey will not accept any explanation other than an exploit Yes, the whole point of this thread and thread on russian forums was to find explanation to The Monkey's actions. But before "exploit solution" many other solutions were discussed and tested - and none of them fitted. And when "exploit solution" after that was researched - surprise! - exploit was found. What a coincidence! Originally by: Raivi so if he continues to successfully hunt after this bug is fixed all it will do is start the witch hunt over again. But currently we see quite the opposite situation: The Monkeysphere STOPPED killing anything after this exploit has been found. So, where is his marauder and golem kills now, if they are not connected with this exploit?
Raivi Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2010.04.23 05:04:00 - [1178] Edited by: Raivi on 23/04/2010 05:06:20 Originally by: dumpertt Raivi, are you ready to catch me in 4 minutes? i've never been killed by monkey, btw. I'm not going to agree to some kind of strawman competition to catch someone who knows I'm coming and who I've already shown a video of my tactic to. Unless of course you want to make it interesting by doing it on TQ. Then I'd consider it. Originally by: Jeremey But currently we see quite the opposite situation: The Monkeysphere STOPPED killing anything after this exploit has been found. So, where is his marauder and golem kills now, if they are not connected with this exploit? That's already been explained multiple times in this thread and can also be deduced with a locator agent. It's not provable beyond a shadow of a doubt, so you're just going to have to keep ratting in your most expensive ship, confident that you're safe from him forever. ---------------------------------------------
Ellatan Deruimte Surreal corp Stain Empire	Posted - 2010.04.23 05:06:00 - [1179] Originally by: Raivi I had a whole post written here but it got accidentally deleted when I edited the post to answer another point as well. Suffice to say I did not intend to be xenophobic, but my assertion that this is a witchhunt that will never end even if proof is given stands. If Monkey keeps killing after the exploit is fixed all that will change is the victims will start searching for a new exploit to pin on him. There are already more exploits attributed to him, however, afaik none of them have been replicated, so I tend to be skeptical about them. A lot of them can be easily explained with no local exploit. The fact that Monkeysphere is a programmer from Estonia doesn't help his case either. I'm not saying that every programmer is an exploiter, but that occupation provides some technical knowledge required for it.
Jeremey Glittering Dust	Posted - 2010.04.23 05:09:00 - [1180] Originally by: Ellatan Deruimte The fact that Monkeysphere is a programmer from Estonia doesn't help his case either. It's just another coincidence. Like comments in killmails and golems-in-a-row.

Raivi Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2010.04.23 05:09:00 - [1181] Edited by: Raivi on 23/04/2010 05:10:43 Originally by: Ellatan Deruimte The fact that Monkeysphere is a programmer from Estonia doesn't help his case either. I'm not saying that every programmer is an exploiter, but that occupation provides some technical knowledge required for it. If I was a less reasonable man I'd accuse you of being xenophobic with that Estonia remark. But instead I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and point out that it's easy to misconstrue meanings so we should all be slow to judge another as xenophobic. Originally by: Jeremey Originally by: Ellatan Deruimte The fact that Monkeysphere is a programmer from Estonia doesn't help his case either. It's just another coincidence. Like comments in killmails and golems-in-a-row. It's easy to see coincidences when they match what you really really want to believe. And that's the last I'll bother bashing against that brick wall. ---------------------------------------------
Jeremey Glittering Dust	Posted - 2010.04.23 05:16:00 - [1182] Edited by: Jeremey on 23/04/2010 05:16:16 Originally by: Raivi If I was a less reasonable man I'd accuse you of being xenophobic with that Estonia remark. By "programmer from Estonia" he just means that it's widely known fact that The Monkey is programmer. That he is not abstract/maybe "a programmer", but that it is well known that he lives in particular country and have programming skills. Originally by: Raivi It's easy to see coincidences when they match what you really really want to believe. I personally wanted to believe that The Monkey uses some new pvp trick and I wanted to learn it from him. And many others who researched this matter thought the same. So these accusations of exploiting is not just someone's random fantasies - quite opposite, it is neccessary explanations of The Monkey's actions.
dumpertt	Posted - 2010.04.23 05:20:00 - [1183] Originally by: Raivi Originally by: dumpertt Raivi, are you ready to catch me in 4 minutes? i've never been killed by monkey, btw. I'm not going to agree to some kind of strawman competition to catch someone who knows I'm coming and who I've already shown a video of my tactic to. Unless of course you want to make it interesting by doing it on TQ. Then I'd consider it. i have only 1 character who flys bs, unfortunately it's high-sec agentrunner (completely neutral to all zero-sec camps) and it is hard to get a bs at 0.0 for him. is the has ok? let's do it on tq. i still don't get what is wrong with the fact i've seen your super-tactics - all i have to do is to log off then u 1st enter the local, wait until you log off, logon once again and wait you appering like a cheshire cat, right? 4 minutes - and if you can do it w/o even knowing a belt - i will do my best to persuade those monkey victims that monkeys are awesome. just think about it.
Widemouth Deepthroat	Posted - 2010.04.23 05:27:00 - [1184] I have heard rumor that Monkeysphere is in fact the developer behind the macro ratter program all these cheater is use and he has put a secret command into this program that will hide him in local, warp to certain planet for him to kill, transfer isk to his character and have cyber with him even.
Certero Hades and Charon funeral parlour	Posted - 2010.04.23 05:30:00 - [1185] Originally by: Widemouth Deepthroat I have heard rumor that Monkeysphere is in fact the developer behind the macro ratter program all these cheater is use and he has put a secret command into this program that will hide him in local, warp to certain planet for him to kill, transfer isk to his character and have cyber with him even. Rly? So maybe you heared about "not-in-local" exploit also? If so, relax, it's just rumors. * EVE-RU vs Cheaters *
Alchemos Gallente Middle School Comedy Club Space Jam.	Posted - 2010.04.23 05:31:00 - [1186] Looking at the killmails it kinda does look like something is up. He always does it with only the same 2-3 characters. He could just know a lot about how bots work and time his logins accordingly though. The strange part is he has not gotten any kills using it since the thread was made though, that seems like the perfect time to do it for maximum troll effect if that was his goal. A lot of people defending him too, which seems strange because if he really didn't exploit he would not even need to respond in a serious manner at all. I am pretty jealous he found a way to do this exploit or not, looks like mad fun.
buttesauce	Posted - 2010.04.23 05:31:00 - [1187] i think the most damning evidence is that he hasn't killed anyone since this thread was posted. getting stuck in a wormhole sure is convenient... because it never happened or he went there on purpose. PL is pretty terrible anyway... i guess you guys had to recruit elitist ops to pull you up by the boot straps
rororor	Posted - 2010.04.23 05:39:00 - [1188] just run a locater agent on him and see if he really is in a wormhole.
Jeremey Glittering Dust	Posted - 2010.04.23 05:42:00 - [1189] Originally by: Widemouth Deepthroat I have heard rumor that Monkeysphere is in fact the developer behind the macro ratter program all these cheater is use and he has put a secret command into this program that will hide him in local, warp to certain planet for him to kill, transfer isk to his character and have cyber with him even. You're lying, he is innocent pvper!
Widemouth Deepthroat	Posted - 2010.04.23 05:47:00 - [1190] Who would be so stupid to warp back and forth to the same safe spot in a easy to probe ship (ie Golem) while log in and out at predictable intervals almost as if they were not controlled by a player?

Praporschik Caldari SoT Soldiers of Thunderstorm	Posted - 2010.04.23 05:48:00 - [1191] PL overloading damage control but it still could not control damage.
Grath Telkin Amarr Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2010.04.23 05:48:00 - [1192] Originally by: Jeremey You're lying, he is innocent pvper! And you were being openly laughed at by the 60th page of the EVE-RU thread, because your gullible in a way that no breathing human has a right to be. Also, El, you can call me xenophobic all you want, but I read the russian thread, and the way that botting is openly talked about on that forum is disturbing in the most extreme sense, its like you guys don't even care if people find out on that forum. The first pages of the thread are full of botters crying about it, so you can park your high horse over in the shed, and come down here with the rest of the filth, your not fooling anybody.
Jeremey Glittering Dust	Posted - 2010.04.23 05:49:00 - [1193] Edited by: Jeremey on 23/04/2010 05:54:58 Originally by: Widemouth Deepthroat Who would be so stupid to warp back and forth to the same safe spot in a easy to probe ship (ie Golem) while log in and out at predictable intervals almost as if they were not controlled by a player? Macrorussians in golems fitted in x-type, of course. How's The Monkeysphere can kill, if it's not them? Originally by: Grath Telkin And you were being openly laughed at by the 60th page of the EVE-RU thread, because your gullible in a way that no breathing human has a right to be. Sorry, I found no mentions of me on 60th page, so I think you confused the page. But you're right in that if someone at eve-ru told that I'm pathetic - that it clearly means that The Monkeysphere is innocent and haven't used that exploit.
Kadesh Priestess Scalding Chill	Posted - 2010.04.23 05:51:00 - [1194] Edited by: Kadesh Priestess on 23/04/2010 05:53:13 Originally by: Raivi I'm not going to agree to some kind of strawman competition to catch someone who knows I'm coming and who I've already shown a video of my tactic to. Unless of course you want to make it interesting by doing it on TQ. Then I'd consider it. It shouldn't be hard to replicate standard macroratter behavior (random waiting time after somebody entered and left system, random belts, etc). I don't think that he wants to prove you that you're wrong, more like he wants to check how's it possible w/o using any exploits. Still - this doesn't explain how he caught guys in expensive ships while they had one eye on local and another one on secure channel. Originally by: Grath Telkin The first pages of the thread are full of botters crying about it, so you can park your high horse over in the shed, and come down here with the rest of the filth, your not fooling anybody. Post here a proof.
Raivi Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2010.04.23 05:52:00 - [1195] Originally by: Praporschik PL overloading damage control but it still could not control damage. Little known fact: the ability to overload your damage control is the first exploit Monkey ever programmed. He was only 13 at the time. ---------------------------------------------
dumpertt	Posted - 2010.04.23 05:54:00 - [1196] Originally by: Widemouth Deepthroat Who would be so stupid to warp back and forth to the same safe spot in a easy to probe ship (ie Golem) while log in and out at predictable intervals almost as if they were not controlled by a player? http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_related&kll_id=6363592 obviously the character was controlled by the player, isn't it? still, it took 10min to get his ship (and pod!) down after monkey got this "macrofarmer" - http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=6363593. tengu is easy to probe ship and it lacks agility? never underestimate monkeys, bro.
Bad Kroxa Amarr Russian SOBR SOLAR FLEET	Posted - 2010.04.23 06:00:00 - [1197] We would like to hear an official response from a CCP employee that they are looking into the issue and trying to reproduce the exploit internally. We would like CCP to state that the use of such an exploit, if proven to be real, will result in the permanent ban of the character using it. We would like to do everything we can to prevent the use of this exploit from spreading to maintain the integrity of the game. CCP, please give us the acknowledgment that this issue didn't fall on deaf ears. If you are also interested in exploit free Eve-online, support our efforts and let your voices be heard!
Certero Hades and Charon funeral parlour	Posted - 2010.04.23 06:01:00 - [1198] Originally by: Raivi Originally by: Praporschik PL overloading damage control but it still could not control damage. Little known fact: the ability to overload your damage control is the first exploit Monkey ever programmed. He was only 13 at the time. Very funny (as any PL post here). But can I ask you something? We are waiting for Monkey to start killing again! Can you tell him that eve-ru pilots and number of guys from this thread ask him to make new kills as soon as he can (i heard about 3-4 days in WH, so tomorrow he'll be outside WH i think). We ask him to kill ratters in his usual manner - no need to change old good strategy Three chars as usual, ships as usual, and 3-4 ratters in a row (as soon as possible). We want to believe he is innocent! Help us please! * EVE-RU vs Cheaters *
Romale Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2010.04.23 06:09:00 - [1199] so i'm still waiting for ccp to do something about the bolsheviks since they are the only ones who have proven they know how to cheat. its pretty clear from reading eve-ru and then this abortion of a thread that there is some kind of racial cabal on the part of the bolsheviks to slander monkeysphere, i demand justice
Jeremey Glittering Dust	Posted - 2010.04.23 06:09:00 - [1200] Edited by: Jeremey on 23/04/2010 06:10:30 Originally by: Romale so i'm still waiting for ccp to do something about the bolsheviks since they are the only ones who have proven they know how to cheat. its pretty clear from reading eve-ru and then this abortion of a thread that there is some kind of racial cabal on the part of the bolsheviks to slander monkeysphere, i demand justice So, who else from your ally have not used this no-local exploit? Please tell this to safeguard them from dirty occasional accusations in exploit usage. I think Awox is innocent too.



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