Does everyone in your fleet need a full set of crystals? Can you not dedicate certain people do different types of ore and actually make effective use of your numbers?

it's not even bigger because gang links are % based so a 20% bonus now is still a 20% bonus after gang links.

no idea how long it takes, between auto reload and being able to carry all of the crystals i want it's never been an issue so i've never needed to know. i do remember having to buy a handful of new crystals every few days even with casual mining at about 1-3hs a day without orca bonuses (slower cycles, less wear on crystals).

even if you don't need a full set, you can't get a half set in with the current cargo capacity. that's the thing, if we revert back to the old 500m3 cargo bay iirc we still can't fit a full set of crystals however; we can fit enough sets of crystals that there's a wide enough range of crystals for it not to be an issue.

But VV was complaining that fitting a Brick Tank gimps the TQ Hulk's yield too much, and that reduces the yield less than switching to a SISI Mackinaw will.

You can fit 3 Ores worth of Crystals. Do you really have situations where you have to switch ores more than 3 times while the Hauler's making a run to station?

clearly i do; or it wouldn't be an issue.

Certainly being able to bring 4 sets of cystals instead of 3 is absolutely as game breaking as T20 or subcap killer fitted Titans.

I mean, look at the opposition, you'll find less opposition at making drugs legal.

Clearly only being able to bring 3 sets of crystals instead of 4 makes the Hulk useless despite the 20% increase in yield.

it's not a 20% increase, at the moment.

hulk bonuses are unchanged so (so it's mining yield is unchanged) so we can figure out all the mining rates relative to a hulk

these calculations are based on Exhumers V/Barge V char, for mining rock not ice - this is without MLUs


Ship - Strips * modifiers = effective # of strip mining modules

Hulk - 3 strips * 1.15 (barge V) * 1.15 (exhumers V) = 3.9675
Mackinaw - 2 strips * 1.50 (role bonus) * 1.05 (exhumers V) = 3.15
Skiff - 1 strips * 3 (role bonus) * 1.05 = 3.15

Covetor - 3 strips * 1.2 (barge V) = 3.6
Retriever - 2 strips * 1.5 (role bonus) = 3 strips
Procurer - 1 strips * 3 (role bonus) = 3 strips


or % relative to a hulk

Mackinaw: 79.4%
Skiff: 79.4%

Covetor: 90.7%
Retriever: 75.6%
Procurer: 75.6%

Clearly only being able to bring 3 sets of crystals instead of 4 makes the Hulk useless despite the 20% increase in yield.

Clearly gimping the workflow of the ship meant to have the best yield is what's needed to make Hulks competitive over other ships that don't need any fleet, any defense, any micromanagement.

Clearly a 25+% yield(income) boost isn't enough to make Hulks competitive over other ships. Why have people been using MLU Hulks instead of Brick tanked Hulks if 25% isn't a giant income boost?

And again, how is it gimping the workflow? If you're not in corp together, you don't get the convenience of corp hangars, and you just have to jetcan.

You're forgetting the 15% from Barge 5. Skiff/Mack doesn't have that.

It's actually 25%. 100/79~=1.25.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1686159#post1686159

you're entirely wrong here because nullsec mining is never done solo, it's done in fleets.

in their current SiSi state barges (besides the covetor/hulk) have such inflated HP numbers that they'll have far more EHP, unfit, than unfit fleet command ships (you know, the ones that fit links and are fit to tank a massive fleet, but can't do any DPS worth a damn) and even some tanked HACs.

the 'proper' change would have been to give them actual T2 resists and perhaps the ability to fit LSEs (via, say, a bonus that reduces the fitting requirements for LSEs) so that the decision between fitting for yield and a tank doesn't leave you with a useless tank (in the case of the Mackinaw) with gimped yield.

allowing them to have good 50-60k EHP tanks at the expense of yield would have been the right approach - it'd leave miners with more meaningful fitting choices, it'd give an advantage to miners who don't simply turn their mining lasers on and get off their computer to do their laundry and it wouldn't simply leave you with an idiot-proof ship - "here's a ship that has everything you need and you don't have to bother trying to fit it right, just fit strip miners and go"

I can't believe there are 126 pages on this...

They used MLUs because before the last months there was never a permanent Hulkageddon so tanking the Hulks was not needed. So why gimp the ship if gankers were only to be dealt with 1 for month a year?

Try stop hammering F5 on the forums and get out mine for 1 week, most of your questions will be sorted.

mining, it's as important as goons exploiting faction warfare.

People still mine?!

however that's without fittings. max yield for both ships brings the difference to 15.5526....% due to the mack's third mlu.

You were moaning that my brick tank fit was unrealistic during the throws of the permanent HAG (when clearly tanking is needed).

You're saying that you mine in an NPC Corp Orca and Hulk. That means you can't use the Corp Hangars with the Hulk, so you have to Jetcan the ore to transfer it. What's the problem with transferring the Crystals back?

where do you think minerals come from?

Like a kid asking where burgers are coming from...^^

No, I was moaning that after I spent weeks to train an alt for your fitting required V skills and then fitted a Mack with your tank fit, it was horribly performing (35% less, not just some theorycrafted -15% or 20%) AND 1 ganker volley still hit it hard.

The fact I was rabidly watching around me like an hawk and warped in 3 seconds saved me NOT your fitting, at the same time I suffered for a large missed ISK income because of the massive yield drop.

I only have 1 rarely used character in NPC corp (PI alt), all the others are in multiple corps.
Your point was?


Edit:

I will NEVER EVER keep the Orca(s) close to the ships, I am not so dumb to let Bat Country and similar pull a smart bomb and them make a nice taunting video about it.

You're saying that you mine in an Different PC Corp Orca and Hulk. That means you can't use the Corp Hangars with the Hulk, so you have to Jetcan the ore to transfer it. What's the problem with transferring the Crystals back?

I can't believe there are 126 pages on this...

Agreed. Keep local and get rid of forum?

Never did a Mack fit that I claimed to be unprofitable to gank. Never claimed that the Macks didn't need some love.

"Hulk" is not the same word as "Mackinaw."

Multiple corps have identical problems with NPC corps. So,

It's not my fault CCP's implementation today handles multi-corps fleets perfectly and past August 8 it will not.

CCP for the Battlecruisers V to multi racial battlecruiser Tiericide change stated "you'll be able to fly tomorrow what you can fly today".

Good, I want the same applied for mining fleets.

CCP for the Battlecruisers V to multi racial battlecruiser Tiericide change stated "you'll be able to fly tomorrow what you can fly today".

Good, I want the same applied for mining fleets.