And as I said...I don't believe they are effective means. Effective would be a module or some such, not a duct tape "orbit" method (which doesn't work) or web method (which also doesn't work). Also just telling them to goto a different system may work, or they might just be followed. Either way, they're displaced.

Sure. But how would you feel if a bunch of players demanded that CCP banned your account whenever you enjoyed the game?

So to summarise, there are mechanics that allow you to mitigate the issue, but there are trade-offs - they're not 100% effective, you have to move, whatever.

Sounds perfect to me.

If you had a counter which was 100% effective every single time and which did not require you to make a choice as to whether you are willing to make some kind of trade off (a la the less yield for more tank choice that disgusting miner filth refused to ever make) then it becomes by definition stupidly unbalanced.

And as I said...I don't believe they are effective means. Effective would be a module or some such, not a duct tape "orbit" method (which doesn't work) or web method (which also doesn't work). Also just telling them to goto a different system may work, or they might just be followed. Either way, they're displaced.

Meh. Wouldn't phase me. Collect some tears and move on.

Or not. They should not have to pay you to play. They pay CCP. As I tell all miners, never pay an extortionist from the bumper group. That's not a mechanic, it's a scam.

Meh. Wouldn't phase me. Collect some tears and move on.



Indeed. That's why (if you read my previous posts instead of trolling me as an agent) I suggested an anchor that, while keeps them from being bumped, prevents them from moving for 5 minutes give or take, opening them to a gank unless they're tanked properly. Even if they are tanked properly, they can still be ganked with the right fleet. Tornado alphas are not something to be denied their kill.

More effective if you tell said agent to go f themselves, since it has proven they have no way to enforce this. Also not a bad idea to type to said agent, LMAO you idiot. That will really make the agent upset. I find with most children, if you laugh at them they get real mad.

Orbiting and webs do work.

You really have to answer why it is that battleships and carriers can manage to counter bumping while miners in a cruiser sized ship cannot manage it.

Good to know we agree on something then.

They don't have to pay the New Order, but they do have to live with the consequences of the choices they make. If you do not follow the New Order you must face the consequences.

Except they are already vulnerable to ganking, and miners already spend the vast majority of their time not moving, therefor your suggestion gives them a massive benefit without introducing any kind of drawback.

A more realistic scenario would be if the module reduced their yield by 50%.

There are effective counters to bumping, simply orbiting in a mackinaw or retriever is not one of them, if however you are orbiting in an AB skiff you are extremely hard to bump, won't stop us trying but 90% of the time we fail.

If the "I wanna mine all day and not be bumped" miners all quit mining it would indeed cause a price rise and shortage in ships and modules, then we would see some of the pilots who can fly mining ships, but don't because it's a poor return on time, come out of the woodwork and start mining again because it is economically viable to do so and it is in their interests to do so to produce ships.

Some of the miners that have purchased mining permits merely see it as a business cost not extortion, they have done the math and figure a 10 million isk permit is a worthwhile investment to be allowed to mine in peace and have a greater market share than those who don't have a permit.

We like these guys, they accept that people can interrupt their game play and have taken steps to minimize interference, in short they have adapted and are in a better position than those who have not.

If they want to pay, it's their choice sure. But for those who do not and who would rather resist you well...I have far more respect for them.

yeah I remember that scene in 300 where King Leonidas whined to the devs about the Persians unfairly extorting him and griefing him

Carriers and battleships are...rather much larger than a barge. I've been bumped while in my carrier and the movement was easily offset because (1) I'm a ******* giant carrier and (2) I had fleets to web me to a slowdown/safety.

I've watched the orbiting "solution" and the reason it doesn't work is because a single fleet stabber speed fit can bump off a miner faster than the barge can maneuver back to the asteroid. For every 5km the miner gains, the bumper bumpers him back another 8km give or take. And that's just one bumper.

yeah I remember that scene in 300 where King Leonidas whined to the devs about the Persians unfairly extorting him and griefing him

Do you have evidence for this? Why would they give up their original income source for mining? Why would mining suddenly be more profitable than say L4's or L5's, market games or pure industry? You need to come up with some facts before stating these assumptions.

yeah I remember that scene in 300 where King Leonidas whined to the devs about the Persians unfairly extorting him and griefing him

Except you're not really resisting the Order, you're just begging CCP to introduce mechanics that would artificially protect you. If you actually resist, without whining to mommy and daddy devs to simply fix it for you, that'd be admirable. However you would still lose, as the New Order is invincible.

Yet when they try this on my battleship they miss...

The reason why it is so effective on miners is because of the same reason ganking them was so easy. They take zero steps to protect themselves.

yeah I remember that scene in 300 where King Leonidas whined to the devs about the Persians unfairly extorting him and griefing him

Nice twist. But really, Leonidas was free to kick the Persian's arse without getting Concordokkened, with all of them in the same corp, same place, and ready to go. We need to give miners the same 'kick' ability (THIS IS VELDSPAR!)

Nice twist. But really, Leonidas was free to kick the Persian's arse without getting Concordokkened, with all of them in the same corp, same place, and ready to go. We need to give miners the same 'kick' ability (THIS IS VELDSPAR!)

I don't know if you remember, but the Spartans at Thermopylae actually all died. That seems pretty similar to CONCORD to me.

So again this is a case of "there is yet another mechanic that lets me counter them, but I don't want to deal with the consequences or effort of that mechanic, a bloo bloo"

And suddenly war decs were invented.

We need to give miners the same 'kick' ability (THIS IS VELDSPAR!)

Yet they came back and continued to dominate afterwards.

Dude, the mass of a battleship/carrier is not the same situation as a mining barge. Save for the skiff idea, try orbiting a roid in another barge/exhumer, and mine. Then try to get yourself bumped and see if the orbit mechanic fully works as you say. I tried. It didn't. Same with the web idea, just bump the webber out of range.

Unfortunately, no, the spartans did not come back from the dead. Funnily enough though, that does happen in EVE. So um what was your point again

When the bumping ship is a nano phoon mass means very little. Mass also means squat if they miss you.

As for the webber. Use a frigate and have it orbit the barge?

To me it's not about the money, it's the action. I don't like the idea of people kotowing to extortionists. 300 comes to mind, when Xerxes demanded a jar of water and dirt from the Spartans. It cost really nothing, but the action and symbolism behind it was down right insulting to the Spartans.

Action: Whine to CCP and ask for a special mod to help you.
Cost: Getting laughed at by all the rest of EVE, developer time that could be spent fixing real problems, introducing a hilariously exploitable new mod to EVE, the New Order declaring a shift of focus to blockading Jita 4-4 with a wall of anchored mining barges and demanding a 10mil ISK fee from any freighter pilot wishing to pass through.

Nothing comes for free.

Yet they came back and continued to dominate afterwards.