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A possible solution to AFK cloaky alts

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Grimpak Midnight Elites Echelon Rising 78	Posted - 2011.10.12 08:52:00 - [91] - Quote The Apostle wrote: AFK cloakies kill systems. They know that - it's why it's done. no, what kills systems is crybabies like you that can't or don't have any friends to help out. you're supposed to be in nullsec, the most lawless of all space. stop acting like it's your own doorstep. [img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img] [quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right
Alpheias Euphoria Released HYDRA RELOADED 80	Posted - 2011.10.12 09:14:00 - [92] - Quote Grimpak wrote: The Apostle wrote: AFK cloakies kill systems. They know that - it's why it's done. no, what kills systems is crybabies like you that can't or don't have any friends to help out. Suicide is always going to be popular among people such as The Apostle. But I have a niggling suspicion that The Apostle will find something to complain about when it comes to his suicide like how hard it is for him. GÖ½ When your ship gets blown to bits GÖ½ And you lose your Faction fits \Gÿ+/ Don't worry GÖ¬ GÖ½ GÖ¬ GÖ½ GÖ½ GÖ¬ GÖ½ GÖ¬ Be Happy \Gÿ+/
Dray Euphoria Released HYDRA RELOADED 2	Posted - 2011.10.12 09:46:00 - [93] - Quote Until local is removed I don't care how much hate there is for afk cloakers leave them alone, it's a viable tactic against lazy or incompetent people, besides the tears are epic.
J'Poll IMPERIAL LEGI0N 6	Posted - 2011.10.12 10:29:00 - [94] - Quote Nice way of you Trav to get trolls notice this. There is a counter, fly in groups and never solo Also if a person hotdrops you he isn't AFK (unless he is botting which is illegal) as he actively has to light the cyno on you. Also if the person IS actually AFK, you can just go and do your thing to make ISK as he is AFK so won't notice you are actually ratting/mining/etc. J'Poll Director / Recruiter - Borealis Mining Concern Recruiter - Imperial Legi0n As a finishing touch, God created the Dutch
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 468	Posted - 2011.10.12 10:44:00 - [95] - Quote GÇ£SolvingGÇ¥ AFK cloaking is easy GÇö remove local. Then there is no AFK:ness to worry about. Until local is removed, AFK cloaking is not a problem, but a solution. It doesn't need a counter because it is itself a counter to the immensely overpowered intel mechanic that is local. You don't fix a counter by adding a counter-counter GÇö you fix it by addressing the initial cause that makes that counter a necessity. Everything else that people incorrectly attribute to the GÇ£problemGÇ¥ of AFK cloaking has nothing to do with AFK:ness or with cloaking, and can be solved by adding spool-up time to cynos and/or to jump engines. So how about those people try to actually solve the right thing (if, indeed, even that one is a problem, which is debatableGÇª)? GÇöGÇöGÇö GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ GÇö Karath Piki-á
Cipher Jones 86	Posted - 2011.10.12 10:52:00 - [96] - Quote One of the things in game that's working as intended and ppl want to change it, WTF? Remove local probloem solved. Now you have to get your intel like the big boys. See what happens when fat neckbeards try to ride little ponies? The ponies die.
Mistress Motion Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 3	Posted - 2011.10.12 11:50:00 - [97] - Quote Signal11th wrote: Basically all the people who complain about this, just go and live in a wormhole for a month or so and then come back to 0.0 and you'll then wonder what the fuss is all about. 1. You need probes to find WH sites, and probes can be dscanned. 2. You don't need probes to find nullsec sanctums etc. Just less than 10sec click and you're warping next to a target. Or am I missing something here?
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 468	Posted - 2011.10.12 11:59:00 - [98] - Quote Mistress Motion wrote: Or am I missing something here? Yes: how the lack of local means that there is no such thing as GÇ£AFK cloakingGÇ¥ in w-space, and that. GÇöGÇöGÇö GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ GÇö Karath Piki-á
Endeavour Starfleet Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 4	Posted - 2011.10.12 12:01:00 - [99] - Quote Removing Local is not a real solution to the AFK issue. Matter of fact it will mean even more risk free hotdrops. Not a solution. To solve this issue you must remove the incentive to walk away from your computer while cloaked. To do this I propose a probe system that works by locating a random point in space. (With of course a large increase in scan time so it isn't abused to prevent legit intel operations with active players) Once this point is located the cloak pilot is warned and if he doesn't warp away to reset the random point the ship will decloak. This will then allow people to use combat probes and kill the AFK pilot the same as any other AFK pilot in a hostile system. This is a fair system that rewards the active pilot while removing the incentive to walk away from keyboard. However, I will support ideas such as a cloak fuel charge or long cloak module times that are not able to autorepeat. The issue of being able to walk away from keyboard with no risk in a hostile system needs to be solved tho I hope ways like mine can be considered that will have the least effect on legitimate intel operations.
Endeavour Starfleet Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 4	Posted - 2011.10.12 12:08:00 - [100] - Quote Ladie Harlot wrote: This thread is like a magnet for bad ideas about fixing a problem that doesn't really exist. The issue is it does exist. CCP can easily pull up the history to show the many AFK cloakers turning active and hotdropping resulting in almost free kills. They can easily find the data that shows once the cyno is lit the force it it lit against has virtually no chance. This is similar to the data showing how it used to be in highsec where free ganks were not only free but profitable. Resulting in the CONCORD buff. This is an issue and Winter 2011 is the perfect time to fix it in a fair way without throwing the nerf bat and seriously impacting the work of legit active players that are at their computers. While removing the incentive to walk away from your computer in hostile territory. There are good ideas to fix this real issue. And I can only hope CCP will consider them instead of more drastic measures to fix this issue. Edit: Also now with Time dilation there is far more reason to actually go in and take the systems of your enemies. When there is no lagfest there will be a chance for real tactics. Remove the incentive to AFK cloak and reward those who use cloaks for moving through hostile territory in advance of the main fleets.

Dray Euphoria Released HYDRA RELOADED 2	Posted - 2011.10.12 12:10:00 - [101] - Quote Endeavour Starfleet wrote: Removing Local is not a real solution to the AFK issue. Matter of fact it will mean even more risk free hotdrops. Not a solution. You couldn't be more wrong.
Jennifer Starling Imperial Navy Forum Patrol 49	Posted - 2011.10.12 12:12:00 - [102] - Quote Signal11th wrote: Ladie Harlot wrote: This thread is like a magnet for bad ideas about fixing a problem that doesn't really exist. ^^This Christ I can't believe people are still moaning about this!!, If it's AFK then you're in no danger only the danger your perceive to be there if their not AFK then they are doing their job! Basically all the people who complain about this, just go and live in a wormhole for a month or so and then come back to 0.0 and you'll then wonder what the fuss is all about. Exactly. It more seems like people are actually opposing cloaking.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 468	Posted - 2011.10.12 12:16:00 - [103] - Quote Endeavour Starfleet wrote: Removing Local is not a real solution to the AFK issue. Of course it is. Without local, you can't detect those AFKers and therefore can't worry about them. Quote: Matter of fact it will mean even more risk free hotdrops. Not a solution. That is not an AFK issue. Quote: To solve this issue you must remove the incentive to walk away from your computer while cloaked. Yes: remove local so your mere presence in it can't scare any remaining wits out of the already witless. Doing so removes the incentive to leave your ship AFK while cloaked, in the hope that people will be too afraid of it to do anything. Quote: The issue is it does exist. CCP can easily pull up the history to show the many AFK cloakers turning active and hotdropping resulting in almost free kills. In other words, the issue is not with the AFK cloakers GÇö it's with hotdrops. GÇöGÇöGÇö GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ GÇö Karath Piki-á
Shang Fei The Illuminatii Mildly Intoxicated 4	Posted - 2011.10.12 12:26:00 - [104] - Quote ohai TCU :)
Endeavour Starfleet Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 5	Posted - 2011.10.12 12:26:00 - [105] - Quote Removing local will not decrease free hotdrops it will increase them dramatically. For the few months people will stay in EVE to experience it. Being able to remain cloaked for hours maybe days in a system without risk of detection and away from keyboard leading to a free hotdrop with the cloak having full intel on his side will become a much worse issue with Local removed or delayed not less. The REAL solution is to remove the incentive to walk away from the keyboard without destroying nullsec with a local change. There are several ways to this. I believe my solution is the most targeted towards those who are AFK while cloaked and reduces the chance of badly affected those using the cloak for intel gathering through hostile systems. This will also remove the issue of a cloaker being able to come back from AFK and launching a free hotdrop. Winter 2011 is the perfect time to make a real change in this while not destroying nullsec or those using the cloak for intel gathering while at their keyboards.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 468	Posted - 2011.10.12 12:30:00 - [106] - Quote Endeavour Starfleet wrote: Removing local will not decrease free hotdrops it will increase them dramatically. GÇªwhich is not an AFK cloaker issue. Quote: The REAL solution is to remove the incentive to walk away from the keyboard Yes: remove local so your mere presence in it can't scare any remaining wits out of the already witless. Doing so removes the incentive to leave your ship AFK while cloaked, in the hope that people will be too afraid of it to do anything. Quote: without destroying nullsec with a local change. Changing local does not destroy nullsec, and anyway, without a change to local, AFK cloaking can't be removed as it acts as the only counter to this overpowered intel tool. The problem you're having is one of being hotdropped and of not wanting to lose your intel tool (which, unfortunately, needs to happen regardless). So address those actual problems instead GÇö not the non-issue of cloakers who have gone AFK. GÇöGÇöGÇö GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ GÇö Karath Piki-á
Svizac Marmotov 0	Posted - 2011.10.12 12:32:00 - [107] - Quote What is he's not AFK? What is he's sitting at his computer and running his d-scanner every few minutes waiting for someone to make a wrong move? Or what if he wasn't cloaked at all? Would it feel better if you knew he is actively hunting you, and you can't undock or do anything because you WILL get hotdroped, for hours and hours? Do you still think it's unfair and needs fixing? What if he was there, but you didn't know he is there at all? Not showing in local, not showing on scanner, ganking you "out of the blue"? As it should be, since cloak should hide your presence. What if you don't know he is NOT there? Sitting and hiding from illusionary enemy that is not there? Because you're petrified by fear of danger.....
DarkAegix Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic 96	Posted - 2011.10.12 12:38:00 - [108] - Quote Blah blah blah, local this, local that. Remove local? Fear all the time! Hotdrops at any given second! Keep local? AFK cloakers which can sip tea for days then strike at any time they please. All arguments have been exhausted. Pro-cloak-nerfers are too cowardly, while AFK-cloak-sympthasisers consistently block their ears, often replying with "Derp they're AFK they can't hurt you yep definitely no way they can't suddenly un-AFK that's ludicrous AFK cloakers are always AFK never uncloaking :elitepvp:" CCP are doing the right thing and creating a new 0.0 intel system for the next expansion. Local will no longer be an intel tool, for nullsec at least, and will be replaced with something else.
Endeavour Starfleet Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 5	Posted - 2011.10.12 12:46:00 - [109] - Quote With my solution if he is there and active he will receive a warning that he will soon decloak and thus the active pilot can quickly warp to a safespot and back again to reset the scan point and resume his activities. I ONLY want to remove the incentive to go AFK in a hostile system. Active cloaking is a viable tactic and I want to to be the main use again. That way a cloak alt will be actually something to work at and be proud for not something for free ganks or free all day affecting a system. Don't Destroy Nullsec with removing local and don't damage active player AFK. If solutions can be discussed that can target just the incentive to walk away from keyboard this issue can be resolved without the massive nerf bat.
Endeavour Starfleet Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 5	Posted - 2011.10.12 12:48:00 - [110] - Quote Just to clarify Dark, I am talking about local with its main use now which is knowing instantly who is in system. That is a general term and I would be happy to support an external system that emulates or improves on it. As long as it's use it not affected.

Dorian Wylde Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 31	Posted - 2011.10.12 12:48:00 - [111] - Quote There's no problem, therefore no solution is needed. If they are afk, they can't hurt you.
Ingvar Angst Nasty Pope Holding Corp Talocan United 114	Posted - 2011.10.12 12:51:00 - [112] - Quote Wow, another OP that thinks "his" null space system should be as safe as high sec. People like this are embarassments to Eve as a whole. If you want to really "fix" what isn't broken, here's how you do it. 1. When a ship cloaks, it disappears from local. You can't see it anymore, you have nothing to be afraid of, right? 2. When a ship cloaks, it also loses access to local. You lose the free intel of being able to sit there while cloaked at a safe seeing who's in system or not. You want more intel? Simply... use probes, use dscan, fly your lazy ass around and see who's where. In addition. when cloaked you can no longer be "warped to". 3. When you decloak, there should be a delay in being able to fire off a cyno. This balances the "invisible in local" thing, giving the poor bastard you're surprising at least a fighting chance to soil himself and run away. There you go, the "afk cloaker problem" is fixed. Now grow some balls, undock and play the game. Six months in the hole... it changes a man.
Mistress Motion Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 3	Posted - 2011.10.12 12:53:00 - [113] - Quote Tippia wrote: Mistress Motion wrote: Or am I missing something here? Yes: how the lack of local means that there is no such thing as GÇ£AFK cloakingGÇ¥ in w-space, and that. Just wanted to point out that it's not really same to be in WH anyway, since you can spam dscan and find probes when someone is after you. And in nullsec if there's someone coming to 'your' sanctum, he/she won't need a single probe for that.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 468	Posted - 2011.10.12 12:56:00 - [114] - Quote Endeavour Starfleet wrote: I ONLY want to remove the incentive to go AFK in a hostile system. GÇªwhich the removal of local does perfectly. But even so: why does it need to be disincentivised? Quote: Don't Destroy Nullsec with removing local How would it destroy nullsec? Quote: I am talking about local with its main use now which is knowing instantly who is in system. That is a general term and I would be happy to support an external system that emulates or improves on it. Why on earth do you need to improve on a tool that gives you perfect, free intel? No, it needs to be massively nerfed into actually requiring some work to gain unreliable intel. It does not need to be emulated or improved on GÇö it needs to be replaced with something that is worse in every way. Oh, and yes, Ingvar Angst's solution is pretty much ideal if local isn't replaced. GÇöGÇöGÇö GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ GÇö Karath Piki-á
Rico Rage Fleetworks ROMANIAN-LEGION 0	Posted - 2011.10.12 13:06:00 - [115] - Quote What about a new type of probes, that allows you to scan down cloaked ships? Maybe make them take a lot longer to scan down a target (as in like, 15 minutes to scan down a target), that way you couldn't use it to scan down active cloakies. However, any AFK cloaky would be easily found as they would just be sitting in one area of space for long periods of time. This allows players to still remain effective at harassing in a cloaky, but prevents people from being able to sit in a system cloaked while AFK. If a cloaky pilot is active in your system, you won't be able to scan them down. But if an AFK cloaky is at large, all you need to dedicate is a probing ship with a couple of guns on it to take them out.
Signal11th 86	Posted - 2011.10.12 13:09:00 - [116] - Quote Mistress Motion wrote: Tippia wrote: Mistress Motion wrote: Or am I missing something here? Yes: how the lack of local means that there is no such thing as GÇ£AFK cloakingGÇ¥ in w-space, and that. Just wanted to point out that it's not really same to be in WH anyway, since you can spam dscan and find probes when someone is after you. And in nullsec if there's someone coming to 'your' sanctum, he/she won't need a single probe for that. You're missing the point of what I meant, if you live in a WH you lose your fear of a cloaky because you always assume there is one always there. This said people in Wormholes always manage to work on as normal and you don;t need probes to visit the sleeper sites either. I lived in WH space for a little time and I must admit I wasn't a great fan but it did show how baseless these AFK CLOAKING MUST BE FIXED arguments are because there is already a slice of EVE that lives with cloakies AND no local and they prefer it that way. God Said "Come Forth and receive eternal life!"-á I came second and won a toaster.
Ingvar Angst Nasty Pope Holding Corp Talocan United 114	Posted - 2011.10.12 13:12:00 - [117] - Quote Mistress Motion wrote: Tippia wrote: Mistress Motion wrote: Or am I missing something here? Yes: how the lack of local means that there is no such thing as GÇ£AFK cloakingGÇ¥ in w-space, and that. Just wanted to point out that it's not really same to be in WH anyway, since you can spam dscan and find probes when someone is after you. And in nullsec if there's someone coming to 'your' sanctum, he/she won't need a single probe for that. Sleeper sites don't require probes to locate. Think of them as the wormhole version of sanctums. In holes, you need to probe gravs, mags, radars, ladars and more holes, but not the combat sites. Six months in the hole... it changes a man.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 470	Posted - 2011.10.12 13:13:00 - [118] - Quote Rico Rage wrote: What about a new type of probes, that allows you to scan down cloaked ships? It immediately raises the question: why is that needed? GÇöGÇöGÇö GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ GÇö Karath Piki-á
Ingvar Angst Nasty Pope Holding Corp Talocan United 114	Posted - 2011.10.12 13:15:00 - [119] - Quote Tippia wrote: Rico Rage wrote: What about a new type of probes, that allows you to scan down cloaked ships? It immediately raises the question: why is that needed? They need something to replace what nature failed to dangle between their legs. Six months in the hole... it changes a man.
Signal11th 86	Posted - 2011.10.12 13:16:00 - [120] - Quote I must admit I'm sort of leaning towards Ingvar's solution with a couple of tweaks but I would prefer local being removed completely from 0.0 with the addition of better/newer scanning tools God Said "Come Forth and receive eternal life!"-á I came second and won a toaster.



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