ITT: sensitive miner succumbs to space delirium, due to AFK person

cloaking ships need a counter its been way too long

On my main i am in null sec and seen enemies to my alliance go in each of our systems with an alt and go cloaked for days and days on end. this disrupts our operations to ratting mining and other profitable isk ways. it started to tear down my alliance these people sitting cloaked off grid waiting to pick off the easy targets when we least expect it and hotdropping us time to time.. It brought my alliance mostly to a halt.

The counter is have friends protect you. Seems simple.

How about you stop being ******* renters and join a real alliance that can actually defend the space you claim?

Problem solved.

A" solution" would imply that there is a problem in the first place. The only "problem" with AFK cloakers is the one you are creating for yourself by running away from them.

lol. Never been hotdropped huh?

if you were hotdropped, then he wasn't AFK, now was he?

Get in a fleet with your allies (y'know, those people who are supposedly your friends?), get in your voice coms (you have voice coms, right?), have some people in Sabers sitting around fondling their autocannons, and bait that sucker out. Then shoot him. If he lights a cyno, shoot him anyway. If he dosn't do anything then you win anyway, because he's AFK.

I mean, I'm a semi-bear new to this 0.0 thing, but cloakies don't bother me one bit. They just make me ping dscan more for probes and fly something with a decent insurance payout that I can replace if things go welp-shaped.

Read post #16 why escorts are pointless.



.

See post #11 to see how wrong you are.

You know as well as I do it was a lucky kill (or stupid pilots). I've chased SB fleets that have dropped all around space after they did a bombing run and split up. They go doggoe and just wait it out.

With 20 or so ratters in system and maybe a few miners you simply cannot escort against bombers before they do a kill because you do NOT know where they're gonna drop.

Sure you might get them afterwards, if they're stupid enough to try and break out immediately or forget to cloak up.

Well done, you managed to prove there are two fail SB pilots.... thats all.

Either that or they disconnected/lagged out. (since deliberatly forcing them to lag out is an exploit this isn't a valid tactic)

You have successfully proved nothing.... zero, zip, nada.

Either come back with something constructive or please just leave. You've made yourself look bad enough for one day ;)

I dont get bottled up by afk cloakers while you do. Who is doing badly here?

lol. They were NOT AFK cloakers.

Who said I do? I'm normally the one doing the AFK cloaking thanks.
I also don't really participate in activities where AFK cloaking is going to affect me. I have many other ways to generate ISK.

For a Goon, they probably aren't that much of a problem either since if they aren't dumb, you can just move to another system.
Try thinking of someone OTHER than yourself for a change.

Now what about alliances that only have 2-3 systems? One player can place massive threat on all their systems in one go.... For virtually no effort or risk, vs a massive amount of effort to TRY to find and destroy/bait them or guarding all your ratters to try and defend against them.

Please try showing how that is in ANY WAY balanced. Quite simply it isn't.

Even with the ideas suggested for the de-cloak pulse every hour, a AFK cloaker can still lock down a system for a while for the cheap cheap price of 35mil (one SB), while the victim alliance is likely to have lost 100mil + in income they didn't get during the same period.

in the best interest of my alliance im posting on an alt.

READ: AFK Cloakers shut down our bots

Who said I do? I'm normally the one doing the AFK cloaking thanks.
I also don't really participate in activities where AFK cloaking is going to affect me. I have many other ways to generate ISK.

For a Goon, they probably aren't that much of a problem either since if they aren't dumb, you can just move to another system.
Try thinking of someone OTHER than yourself for a change.

Now what about alliances that only have 2-3 systems? One player can place massive threat on all their systems in one go.... For virtually no effort or risk, vs a massive amount of effort to TRY to find and destroy/bait them or guarding all your ratters to try and defend against them.

Please try showing how that is in ANY WAY balanced. Quite simply it isn't.

Even with the ideas suggested for the de-cloak pulse every hour, a AFK cloaker can still lock down a system for a while for the cheap cheap price of 35mil (one SB), while the victim alliance is likely to have lost 100mil + in income they didn't get during the same period.

They were for the 5 hours before they attacked me.

May be. But for you to catch 2 SB's in a Raven suggests they had nfi what they were doing.

I do agree though that once they are NOT AFK, you've got a chance. One of my most memorable kills was getting a Rapier to agress on a scramming blockade runner - it was a cheap kill but funny as hell

And herein is the OP's point - it's the AFK cloaking that's the issue, not the cloaking.....

Here's the thing, you don't KNOW if he's AFK so you ALWAYS need to assume he is not

How is it an issue when people are making their isk while the afk cloaker just sits there and does nothing?

It is only the falt of the bears if they fail to organise themselves and just cower in station.

If you act like that, your fabricated "problem" goes away.

I have been afk cloaked. And I have done afk cloaking. I also run around in w-space.

Remove local. w-space is perfectly viable without instant intel on who's there. Honestly, spamming d-scan every few seconds is impractical. The odds of you catching a covert cloaker on dscan are pretty small. You might see probes if they aren't very experienced. The good ones will have all your sites already bookmarked.

Don't fly what you can't afford to replace. In nul or w-space I suggest to modify that to say don't fly what you can't easily replace. If losing a T1 BC is too much for you, you may want to go back to hisec missioning for a while and build up a war chest.

You will lose ships. That is a part of life in nul. Plan for it and mitigate the risks.

Is this some kind of psychology exam question?

If you mean the problem goes away because you dock/safe up, then yes. That's EXACTLY what the OP is suggesting.

The issue is that an AFK cloaky doesn't even have to be armed - just there.

He is in fact the most effective 30 day alt in game for 0.0 without even having to ever decloak.

Is this some kind of psychology exam question?

If you mean the problem goes away because you dock/safe up, then yes. That's EXACTLY what the OP is suggesting.

The issue is that an AFK cloaky doesn't even have to be armed - just there.

He is in fact the most effective 30 day alt in game for 0.0 without even having to ever decloak.

Problem: Me and my buddies are unwilling to defend our operations in lawless space because it impedes on our profit margins.

Solution: Nerf some other doods.

Where are you getting that 30 day figure from? Training plan for a fresh alt, please. I can't see how you could make a 30 day covops alt that's actually a threat in that time. Enough skills to sit in local under a regular cloak, maybe, but that's harmless. To actually stalk someone and light a cyno? You need cloaking IV, racial frigate V, covops I, CFT I (CFT V for covert cynos...)

Where are you getting that 30 day figure from? Training plan for a fresh alt, please. I can't see how you could make a 30 day covops alt that's actually a threat in that time. Enough skills to sit in local under a regular cloak, maybe, but that's harmless. To actually stalk someone and light a cyno? You need cloaking IV, racial frigate V, covops I, CFT I (CFT V for covert cynos...)

You can AFK cloak in a system with covert ops and covert cloak in 26 days. (with +3's)
An ordinary cyno on a covert ops is approx. 31 days (with +3's)

Agreed, fitting a covert cyno is a further 30 days but you only need that on jammed systems.

But yes, a covert ops cloaky can warp cloaked within 5k of you and drop a std. cyno at approx. 30 days.

Please don't be dumb Nova,

Local can't be removed till a completely new scanner system is implemented that would give players some warning of other ships nearby without requiring the player to scan to spam a button every 3 seconds or less.

AFK cloakers do need removing, as you can't tell if they are AFK or not..... If they are AFK, fine they are no threat.... if they aren't AFK then they could be sitting 10km away with their finger on point/cyno buttons. Its impossible for a player to know which is which! Often because they are both depending on which particular moment you are talking about.

A module doing a de-cloak burst every 20-30 minutes (deliberatly random, help stops scripts from countering it) would do wonders here without stopping the true purpose of cloaks, bypassing gate camps and harassment.

Then, it seems to me, the problem is with cynos and hotdropping, and not cloaking. The most immediate counter-strategy that comes to my mind is to fit a cyno to the bait ratting ship and bridge in a fleet to counter the dropped gank fleet. Then they drop another fleet through a cyno, etc etc. Then the node crashes.

Close. It's the fact they CAN cyno in that's dangerous, not the fact they do. They don't have to.

I can shut down a whole system using a Prowler or a 100k frigate if I wanted to - as long as I am not seen coming into system

And you think a scanner tool is going to save you from a cyno drop from hell?

And people wonder why so many are leaving 0.0. I know I did because there was and remains NO counter.

Or anywhere in nullsec where friendlies lie. Most juicy systems for afk cloaking are down long, long pipes, where you only need to be seen once for everyone to know what you're flying.

The proposition of a solution implies a problem. There exists no problem with AFK cloakers. AFK cloakers by definition are AFK and cannot hurt you.

Should I respond to this? Should I? Yep. You're a poor troll.

Only time you know he is NOT AFK is when he drops a cyno on your ass. Until that moment, all you can assume is that he will. But you already know that.

I still think you're Riverini but if you aren't then admitting that you got run out of nullsec by people who are afk is p funny.

Look up. See that thing flying above your head? That was the point of Lyris' post.

Should I respond to this? Should I? Yep. You're a poor troll.

Only time you know he is NOT AFK is when he drops a cyno on your ass. Until that moment, all you can assume is that he will. But you already know that.

lolz. Yep. I'm Riverini. There, ya found me out... That's why I hate Goons and Welpcats so much.

But yes. That, and the combination of JB nerf and Sanctum nerf.... And I'll bet my 10 ice roids to your 5 Brutix's that many did the same thing.

I can make more in highsec doing L4's or buzzing around WH's/lowsec looking for loose change.

Sorry. I get so used to nobody being clever 'round here that I miss it when it happens.

So you admit the problem is not that he is AFK cloaking, but that he might at any time attack you. How exactly is this different from being in a wormhole, or being in high-security space right before a suicide gank is perpetrated against you? In fact, how is it any different from being in nullsec with a local that's all blue, right prior to being the victim of an awox attack? Your problem seems to be with the fact that you cannot, ever, guarantee safety in EVE. This is an intended feature.

You can make more doing Incursions than you can doing L4s. You can make more owning a Tech moon than you can with Incursions. You can make more with marketeering than you can with a Tech moon. You can make more with a scam than you can with marketeering. You can make more with RMT than with most scams. You can make more with GM powers than you can with RMT. You can make more as a Dev than you can with GM powers. You can make more as the CEO of CCP hf than you can as a Dev. Where does the buck stop? You seem bitter overall that things aren't going exactly the way you'd like them.

That's a fair point and you're right - and nor should we be safe (with some exceptions in my view but I won't go there in this thread).

But in all of the examples above, player needs to be active and there is as much risk to the agressor as there is to the agressee. Except maybe in the case of a WH but he can't cyno in a fleet against you either. They all have to be there - as a fleet to pull off the kill.

As for highseccers, if a DekCo cowboy (who should be -10 to all ice miners by now) was in system and you kept mining, more fool he. He may have a good tank and decide you are no threat. If he sees 10 reds come in - he leaves. No such option with cyno fleet.

An AFK cloaky has no risk, no counter and is as effective as sending in a 50 man red fleet.

And he's in bed, fast asleep doing it.

Don't allow ships to fit both a cyno and a cloak at the same time. That'll stop the cap ship drops and the cloaky can continue to have fun being afk.

These threads make me want to START AFK cloaking.

Please tell your Alliance to grow a collective wang and deal with it. A high sec miner isn't safe, why should you be given free ISK at zero risk.

No it won't.

If I am going to go through the trouble to park a cloaking alt in your system, then it's not that much trouble to park a second, logged-off character in system that has a cyno fit. All this change would accomplish is to delay the hotdrop by a few seconds and to dissuade those whom are not very dedicated to what they are doing.

You know that the AFK cloaker is there; this alerts you to the possibility of risk. You can ignore that risk, or you can go elsewhere. You are actually in a much more advantageous position compared to being a random guy in highsec whom might find himself suddenly under attack by a couple of 10 Hour Hero characters (10-hour old dudes in destroyers), or someone in nullsec suddenly under attack by an awox.

Funny how all these kissGoon alts arrive at the same time as "the real thing"..... Surprise!!

And it takes a finite amount of time for a hot-drop to happen anyway. The titan pilot/supercap fleet/Blackops has to select the bridge to/jump to menu option, hit the relevant item, then if it's a bridging the ships in the fleet have to use the bridge - then they all have to load grid. Really, there's enough time for a properly paranoid victim of a drop to figure out what's happening. They might not be able to do anything about it if their ship is fat and slow, or they're a dumb bot (serves them right if they are), but a cyno != a doomsday.

At least, not since they took that stupid feature out years before I started playing EvE.

We can't help it if we have admirers.

And a 10 hour destro alt cannot kill a half decent tank. Needs many more and local is a dead giveaway to a half decent player.

Best drops are paired. Both on target, one drops cyno, other points. Under 10 seconds to a good team. You virtually have to be mashing warp before the decloak even happens.

And it takes a finite amount of time for a hot-drop to happen anyway. The titan pilot/supercap fleet/Blackops has to select the bridge to/jump to menu option, hit the relevant item, then if it's a bridging the ships in the fleet have to use the bridge - then they all have to load grid. Really, there's enough time for a properly paranoid victim of a drop to figure out what's happening. They might not be able to do anything about it if their ship is fat and slow, or they're a dumb bot (serves them right if they are), but a cyno != a doomsday.

At least, not since they took that stupid feature out years before I started playing EvE.

The best solution is just ignore the cloaky alts

The best solution is just ignore the cloaky alts

This thread is like a magnet for bad ideas about fixing a problem that doesn't really exist.

You're kidding right?

So if you were ratting in a PvE Tengu worth 100's of millions or a fleet of Hulks worth 100's of millions you'd be happy to accept the threat of a hotdrop at ANY tme?

You have absolutely no idea when - or if in all fairness - a drop could occur. You could put a 100 escorts in system and have every ratter/miner on watch list. By the time cyno is lit, drop made and bombs launched the escorts are only half way through warp to the screaming victim. And that's IF you're on the ball ready for it.

AFK cloakies kill systems. They know that - it's why it's done.

AFK cloakies kill systems. They know that - it's why it's done.

no, what kills systems is crybabies like you that can't or don't have any friends to help out.

Basically all the people who complain about this, just go and live in a wormhole for a month or so and then come back to 0.0 and you'll then wonder what the fuss is all about.

Or am I missing something here?

This thread is like a magnet for bad ideas about fixing a problem that doesn't really exist.

Removing Local is not a real solution to the AFK issue. Matter of fact it will mean even more risk free hotdrops. Not a solution.

^^This

Christ I can't believe people are still moaning about this!!, If it's AFK then you're in no danger only the danger your perceive to be there if their not AFK then they are doing their job!

Basically all the people who complain about this, just go and live in a wormhole for a month or so and then come back to 0.0 and you'll then wonder what the fuss is all about.

Removing Local is not a real solution to the AFK issue.

Matter of fact it will mean even more risk free hotdrops. Not a solution.

To solve this issue you must remove the incentive to walk away from your computer while cloaked.

The issue is it does exist. CCP can easily pull up the history to show the many AFK cloakers turning active and hotdropping resulting in almost free kills.

Removing local will not decrease free hotdrops it will increase them dramatically.

The REAL solution is to remove the incentive to walk away from the keyboard

without destroying nullsec with a local change.

Yes: how the lack of local means that there is no such thing as GÇ£AFK cloakingGÇ¥ in w-space, and that.

I ONLY want to remove the incentive to go AFK in a hostile system.

Don't Destroy Nullsec with removing local

I am talking about local with its main use now which is knowing instantly who is in system. That is a general term and I would be happy to support an external system that emulates or improves on it.

Just wanted to point out that it's not really same to be in WH anyway, since you can spam dscan and find probes when someone is after you. And in nullsec if there's someone coming to 'your' sanctum, he/she won't need a single probe for that.

Just wanted to point out that it's not really same to be in WH anyway, since you can spam dscan and find probes when someone is after you. And in nullsec if there's someone coming to 'your' sanctum, he/she won't need a single probe for that.

What about a new type of probes, that allows you to scan down cloaked ships?

It immediately raises the question: why is that needed?

They need something to replace what nature failed to dangle between their legs.

It immediately raises the question: why is that needed?

Why the teenage angst at a constructive post? I fail to see where I started a thread, or even whined about the cloaky issues. I merely offered a solution to the issue many players identify in EVE. Can you tell us, in your perhaps limited interwebz vocabulary, why the idea is bad?

Fail troll.

How many people actually complain about AFK cloaking in EVE, take that the amount of people who are "forum warriors" is a very small percentage of the actual EVE players and then it's the usual same 10-15 people who complain about it I would say it's not really a big issue.

As CCP have said it's a role that works perfectly and they have no plans to change it.

Easiest way to solve the "AFK cloaking problem" - add a Idle status to people who don't give any input to the game after 10 minutes or so. I step away from my pc for 15 minutes, I get idle state. People in local can see that. I come back it goes away. Problem solved.

If you have a problem with cloakies in your carebear system you really should reconsider if 0.0 is the right place for you.
If you cant live with the risks in 0.0 go to empire.
Your choice.

How to deal with them cloakies :

Get organised ! Always be in a gang and on comms.
Park ur 2 bil tengu or mach and get in a cheap ship (drake) if you think you need to carebear.
Fit a (covert) cyno on your bait ship and have a counter ready when they try dropping you.
Get urself in a cloakie ship and cloak in your enemies systems. Counter (hotdrop) them.

But pls, stop whining !
0.0 - you choice.


Just my opinion.

If it wasn't an issue people wouldn't use it as a strategy. The fact that AFK cloakies are prevalent I'd say, is enough to prove the fact that they are indeed an issue and very effective.

Why the teenage angst at a constructive post? I fail to see where I started a thread, or even whined about the cloaky issues. I merely offered a solution to the issue many players identify in EVE. Can you tell us, in your perhaps limited interwebz vocabulary, why the idea is bad?

Fail troll.

Funny how we got all these big suggestions for Starcraft-style cloaking mechanics like energy usage and cloakie detectors, but nobody ever suggests a simple timer to log out AFK people after a couple of hours of complete inactivity. Oh wait, I forgot that people do their PvE AFK also, sorry.

I've always liked the idea that system timers on cloaks would be a good option.

Benefits to system residents:-
1) AFK cloakies are decloaked if they do not jump out and back in after x minutes have elapsed.
2) Non AFK cloakies have to locate and drop in under x minutes or warp out and back in to be able to recloak. Defensively this means there is a chance (a small one) that you can catch them at a gate.

Benefits to cloakies:-
1) Ratters etc. that warp to a safe and cloak up ALSO lose their effectiveness and can be scanned down.
2) Ratters that try to run to station/POS because of the option above can be bubbled enroute.

And you think a scanner tool is going to save you from a cyno drop from hell?

The proposition of a solution implies a problem. There exists no problem with AFK cloakers. AFK cloakers by definition are AFK and cannot hurt you.

Your problem seems to be with the fact that you cannot, ever, guarantee safety in EVE. This is an intended feature.

In a far too broad sense the reason would be to decloak and destroy those who are AFK.

GǪwhich just shifts the question down the line: why is that needed?

Your problem seems to be with the fact that you cannot, ever, guarantee safety in EVE. This is an intended feature.

Let's keep this topic about the issue of AFK cloaking and keep the wormhole or NPC region stuff out of it. That dives into far many off topic discussions.

To provide risk to AFK cloaking.

AFK cloakers can prevent anomalies from despawning, therefore eliminating high-level anomalies entirely, from systems just by being there AFK. I know. I do it.

So the argument that AFK cloakers cannot do anything while AFK is a false one.

Page 6, scroll up about halfway.

I'll explain once again, with my limited vocabulary, a few reasons why nerfing cloaking is indeed a bad idea. First of all, by doing so you're affecting something near and dear to me personally, wormhole life. By nerfing cloaking you're nerfing the ability of people to actually remain discreet in systems where there simply is no local. You're creating free intel for those unlucky, unfortunate or incapable of gathering it themselves. Wormholes are the last frontiers in Eve, any nerfs that simplify that or render it more "null-like" are simply an abomination to the spirit of the holes themselves.

You see, my cowardly little friend, life in wormholes is about constantly knowing that at any moment someone is about to drop out of cloak and make your life very interesting for a few minutes. You can take the best precautions available, you can roll every hole when you log in, you can have a person maintain a skynet of combats keeping a constant scan for new holes or ships, but there's always that risk that you missed something or someone. They're there, they see you and they're calculating whether they have time to jump your drake running that combat site, or to pop that covetor you're mining with at the grav they scanned while you were offline. You know what? People in wormholes don't spend thier days wasting away within the bubble of their pos whining on the forums that things are too dangerous. Not that I've seen... anyone else?

So that's the skinny of it. Null sec is supposed to be dangerous, not a carebear flowerbed of pansies and unicorns. If you want to risk running the sanctums, you need to take the appropriate precautions to do so. If there's a suspected afk cloaker, take the precautions against the "worst case scenario" as best as you can. Maybe your maximum dps PVE sanctum fit isn't really idea in this situation and you need a tweak or three "just in case". Maybe you need a friend or three along, someone on your side whose cloaked for example and ready to raise hell on any ship that attempts to decloak and interfere. Or maybe, as the "failed troll" post indicates, maybe you just need balls. Balls enough to get out there and do it anyhow, accepting the risk vs reward factor and having at it.

Regardless, you need to accept that living in null is inherent with risks. You can accept the risks and profit, or you can stay docked, whine on the forums and be forever seen as, well, a nutless coward.

Edit: As far as "why the angst"? If you hadn't noticed, it's who I am.

in the best interest of my alliance im posting on an alt.

[quote=Gogurt]ITT: sensitive miner succumbs to space delirium, due to AFK person

Let's keep this topic about the issue of AFK cloaking and keep the wormhole or NPC region stuff out of it. That dives into far many off topic discussions.

GǪwhich, once again, shifts the question down the line: why is that needed?

Stopped right there. If you can't post something without feeling emberrassed and concerned for your alliance then don't post at all.

There is already risk. Bring your fleet to take down the POS or capture the station system. Not impossible.

Not playing 20 questions.

1) I'm far from cowardly, you would find, if you actually knew anything about me.

2) I am well aware of wormhole life and its mechanics.

3) I always assume I will lose any ship I undock, even in high sec.

4) The reason I play the game is PvP. EVE PVE is beyond mind-numbingly boring

5) You should stop making unbased assumptions about forum posters, and rather than try to unsuccessfully attack the people posting the ideas, attack the idea.

6) Save the long winded wormhole mechanics explanation from your POV for a wiki, or someone who gives a damn about it. I already know game mechanics.

GǪyou mean those things that you immediately see coming and therefore can escape? YeeeeahGǪ no. By that token, there is already risk in AFK cloaking by the mere fact that you're AFK and can't react to any threats that might appear.
It's not 20 questions GÇö it's trying to figure out what the problem with AFK cloaking is and why it needs to be solved.

So far, none of the issues have had anything to do with that, but rather with completely different things. The best GÇ£solutionGÇ¥ to AFK cloaking remains to fix local.

Still have a problem with anomaly denial though... it is like i said it is. CCP cannot fix that, so they say its an "accepted tactic".

Ingvar, My suggestion will not seriously affect active cloakers. If you are actively cloaked in a wormhole you will receive warning and are able to warp off to change the random point and prevent the decloak for say 10-15 mins to be fair?

What would affect you is CCP saying "Lets just fix this now" and swinging some massive cloak nerf bat. We dont want that

Removing local will not stop AFK cloaking.

That has already been talked about. We need to discuss removing the incentive to go away from the keyboard while cloaked in a hostile system.

But this affects active cloakers greatly in wormholes! You screw things up like this with your "massive cloak nerf bat". The problem regarding this auto-decloak in holes is that you take away the ambush. You can connect to a static, scan down the sites that need scanning, warp to one cloaked and simply wait. (Yes, you learn patience in the hole.) You may have to wait hours for the ambush to spring, it may never happen. However, being forced to warp all over the place while you're trying to wait is simply foolish and a poorly thought out response to a non-issue. Keep in mind, in a hole you may choose to afk at the ambush point for those hours, flipping over to an alt for example and doing other activities while you wait. You may want to take a bio, get some lunch, run to the store, then come back and see if the prey is in the trap. It could be hours, it could be minutes, it could be never. But, the fact remains that you're ill-though concept would destroy a perfectly viable and acceptible paradigm of wormhole existance, nerfing the inherent dangers in the systems.

The AFK cloaker will be able to get in and even if someone watches him come in he will be able to remain cloaked and then as usual come in for the hotdrop with no warning from Dscan.. Hell why am I even discussing this again? Removing local is of want of free ganks that ought to be obvious. Instead of discussing silly solutions that wreck nullsec such as removing local we need to discuss ways to remove the incentive to go AFK while cloaked while not ruining active cloaking operations.

Removing local will not stop AFK cloaking.

Removing the incentive to go AFK while cloaked is my goal. If AFK cloaking was the very center of your PVP then sorry but that is exactly what I want removed. That is not active cloaking that is AFK cloaking.

It is not a massive nerf bat to cloaking. Its a massive nerf to AFK cloaking and activities such as yourself.

The AFK cloaker will be able to get in and even if someone watches him come in he will be able to remain cloaked and then as usual come in for the hotdrop with no warning from Dscan.. Hell why am I even discussing this again?

Removing local is of want of free ganks that ought to be obvious.

Removing the incentive to go AFK while cloaked is my goal.

The AFK cloaker will be able to get in and even if someone watches him come in he will be able to remain cloaked and then as usual come in for the hotdrop with no warning from Dscan.. Hell why am I even discussing this again? Removing local is of want of free ganks that ought to be obvious. Instead of discussing silly solutions that wreck nullsec such as removing local we need to discuss ways to remove the incentive to go AFK while cloaked while not ruining active cloaking operations.

EDIT: BTW folks evidence that AFK cloaking affects Wormholes as well as nullsec. So lets focus on finding solutions to AFK cloaking instead of comparing WH to Null.

Let's try posting it again, since you seem to have missed relatively important parts...

1. When a ship cloaks, it disappears from local. You can't see it anymore, you have nothing to be afraid of, right?

2. When a ship cloaks, it also loses access to local. You lose the free intel of being able to sit there while cloaked at a safe seeing who's in system or not. You want more intel? Simply... use probes, use dscan, fly your lazy ass around and see who's where. In addition. when cloaked you can no longer be "warped to".

3. When you decloak, there should be a delay in being able to fire off a cyno. This balances the "invisible in local" thing, giving the poor bastard you're surprising at least a fighting chance to soil himself and run away.

It has a positive effect on wormholes however. You don't see one single thread complaining about afk cloaking in wormholes, do you? There's a reason for that.

That would affect active cloaking! I want to target just the inactive cloakers. An active cloaker ought to be able to keep active and watch for prey to do somthing stupid and hotdrop on them.

My solution removes the incentive to be away from the keyboard while cloaked.

That would affect active cloaking! I want to target just the inactive cloakers. An active cloaker ought to be able to keep active and watch for prey to do somthing stupid and hotdrop on them. Being active at the computer ought to be rewarded with good kills not nerfed to hell and back to fix AFK cloaking.

My solution removes the incentive to be away from the keyboard while cloaked. That is what I am targeting with my suggestion.

The funny thing is that people dont wan't "AFK Cloakies" around so THEY can AFK mine.

However... I Still have not seen anyone be able to prove when someone is AFK versus patiently waiting.
If they are AFK, how do they know when to attack you?

One we get some proof that everyone is AFK, then we can work on a solution for it.

I don't care if wormhole folks do not want to discuss ways to fix the issue. If they want to live with you going out to dinner with the folks and coming back to a free gank because you cant be found no matter if you are known or not. Well that is their buisness. I am targeting AFK cloaking and if that benefits WH users. So be it.

BY THE WAY

You guys here know that local as we know it is going to be removed, right!?

That is the problem in reality the only difference between an active cloaker and an inactive cloaker is in your mind, you basically want something to say in large letters "This neut is not active, rat on "

BY THE WAY

You guys here know that local as we know it is going to be removed, right!?

I don't care if wormhole folks do not want to discuss ways to fix the issue. If they want to live with you going out to dinner with the folks and coming back to a free gank because you cant be found no matter if you are known or not. Well that is their buisness. I am targeting AFK cloaking and if that benefits WH users. So be it.

IF that happens it will be replaced with somthing of equal use. Anything otherwise would wreck nullsec and CCP knows it.

No, I want something to say "Contact is decloaked"

If the contact is in my system and goes away from keyboard. I want to be able to kill it 15-30 mins later.

IF that happens it will be replaced with somthing of equal use. Anything otherwise would wreck nullsec and CCP knows it.

Having free ganks each and every day is a fantasy. If somehow it happened you would have them for a few months before people leave Nullsec and EVE in droves now can we focus on the topic please?

wow... this discussion is becoming very very pointless. you just want an easy time ratting in 0.0, without fear and risk. Maybe you want a handy readout of the neut in local of his weaponsystems too, and maybe the fleetcomp of the to-be-hotdropped enemy fleet? sheesh.

That would affect active cloaking! I want to target just the inactive cloakers. An active cloaker ought to be able to keep active and watch for prey to do somthing stupid and hotdrop on them. Being active at the computer ought to be rewarded with good kills not nerfed to hell and back to fix AFK cloaking.

My solution removes the incentive to be away from the keyboard while cloaked. That is what I am targeting with my suggestion.

But this affects active cloakers greatly in wormholes! You screw things up like this with your "massive cloak nerf bat". The problem regarding this auto-decloak in holes is that you take away the ambush. You can connect to a static, scan down the sites that need scanning, warp to one cloaked and simply wait. (Yes, you learn patience in the hole.) You may have to wait hours for the ambush to spring, it may never happen. However, being forced to warp all over the place while you're trying to wait is simply foolish and a poorly thought out response to a non-issue. Keep in mind, in a hole you may choose to afk at the ambush point for those hours, flipping over to an alt for example and doing other activities while you wait. You may want to take a bio, get some lunch, run to the store, then come back and see if the prey is in the trap. It could be hours, it could be minutes, it could be never. But, the fact remains that you're ill-though concept would destroy a perfectly viable and acceptible paradigm of wormhole existance, nerfing the inherent dangers in the systems.

Won't be of equal use. At least not everywhere.

CCP has hinted that they want to replace local with something similar only for sov upgraded systems so that the defenders have an advantage. Everywhere else is fair game.

No I just want local to stay as it is

and to be able to decloak those who are cloaked in system and away from their keyboards.

I am just targeting AFK cloaking with my suggestion.

So can we focus on the topic please?

No need to warp all over the place. Should a method like the one I suggested be implemented (probes to detect cloakies) you would simply have to be on your feet about as much, or less (depending on actual numbers for how long these probes would take to scan down a cloaky using these new probes) than another person in wormhole space.

Simply put, a cloaky sitting in a WH would have to hit dscan periodically to see if "cloaky detection space probes (tm)" show up on it. If they show up, then you know they're looking for cloakies and you can warp away "all over the place". There's absolutely no reason a cloaky should be able to sit in a hole without any risk like any other ships in there, to ask to keep such a mechanic is carebearish because it implies you are unwilling to put yourself at risk in order to get your kills.

Make them have to fit an expanded launcher to use these probes for all I care, or even make them use some new launcher that gimps people to oblivion. Doesn't matter to me, so long as people have the ability to kill off people sitting AFK in systems. If you're at your keyboard actively seeking prey, excellent, I want you to stay undetectable, but if you're off to the store, watching videos online, or otherwise not actively engaged in-game, I want the option to find you and kill you.

Ya I highly doubt that will happen. I and many others have stated that nerfing local = leaving the game. So can we focus on the topic please?

No need to warp all over the place. Should a method like the one I suggested be implemented (probes to detect cloakies) you would simply have to be on your feet about as much, or less (depending on actual numbers for how long these probes would take to scan down a cloaky using these new probes) than another person in wormhole space.

Simply put, a cloaky sitting in a WH would have to hit dscan periodically to see if "cloaky detection space probes (tm)" show up on it. If they show up, then you know they're looking for cloakies and you can warp away "all over the place". There's absolutely no reason a cloaky should be able to sit in a hole without any risk like any other ships in there, to ask to keep such a mechanic is carebearish because it implies you are unwilling to put yourself at risk in order to get your kills.

Make them have to fit an expanded launcher to use these probes for all I care, or even make them use some new launcher that gimps people to oblivion. Doesn't matter to me, so long as people have the ability to kill off people sitting AFK in systems. If you're at your keyboard actively seeking prey, excellent, I want you to stay undetectable, but if you're off to the store, watching videos online, or otherwise not actively engaged in-game, I want the option to find you and kill you.

Ya I highly doubt that will happen. I and many others have stated that nerfing local = leaving the game. So can we focus on the topic please?

Same kind of people said they would leave the game if CCP even thought about nerfing supers. They are still here.

If you really mean it, then leave. They are going forward with it.

CCP is listening to its customers now. If they had ever even thought of it. They will listen now and not go forward with it just to give you free ganks. If somehow they did tho I will take no action until it is on an official feature list or confirmed for TQ. I don't insta quit on rumors.

And hopefully they will listen to this and fix AFK cloaking without swinging the nerf bat like crazy. My idea (Or some variation) will do this.

Wow, lost my response. Here we go again... I can appreciate the thought you put into this concept, however it would greatly detract from wormhole life. Even simply being able to detect the presence of cloaked ships is a huge nerf on the whole wormhole culture and the danger inherent in the system. A big part of planning a system assault often revolves around having an unknown cloaked vessel in a target hole for days or weeks on end actively gathering intel. You may be logged on for hours sitting idly by watching a pos to determine hours of operation, active people in the hole, etc. The secrecy is key. Allowing your presence to be advertised via probe would also shift the whole paradigm such that it would become a near requirement for someone to keep these probes out constantly while any ops are going on, possibly even when they're not. This massive nerf (and it is massive, if you have any clue at all about wormhole life) is grossly unnecessary, unneeded and unwelcome.

Wormholes are the last frontiers of Eve. Anything that nerfs that needs to be fought tooth and nail.

You simply refuse to acknowledge how significant of a nerf your idea is outside of your own little paradigm. At least my method balances cloaks, removes the surprise hotdrop you never saw coming and prevents "afk cloakers" from ever being an issue again, while addressing the free, unearned intel while cloaked thing by making cloaked vessels have to actively gather intel.

Your idea is nothing but a nerf. Nothing in enhanced. Only you (and rat-bots) benefit, not Eve as a whole, and many others feel the pain so you can live a little safer in the place that, by definition, you're not supposed to live a little safer.

If you are active and watching said stuff that's fine but inactive means able to be found. That is the reason behind the suggestion. The entire POINT is to deny the ability to AFK to watch said activities.

If you don't want a probe to be able to "See" you how about this. The longer you stay on grid the more presence you build up. After a random amount the probe will be able to see you (And resulting in a decloak after some time later) If you keep moving I can see why it isnt needed for a probe to say there is a cloak in system. In nullsec local will provide that info anyway.

If you are active and watching said stuff that's fine but inactive means able to be found. That is the reason behind the suggestion. The entire POINT is to deny the ability to AFK to watch said activities.

If you don't want a probe to be able to "See" you how about this. The longer you stay on grid the more presence you build up. After a random amount the probe will be able to see you (And resulting in a decloak after some time later) If you keep moving I can see why it isnt needed for a probe to say there is a cloak in system. In nullsec local will provide that info anyway.

Why should I need to remain active? I do after all pay for my account, it's mine to play as I wish.

You've yet to give a valid reason as to why this is an issue. Not only that, but you want more power on top of the already overpowered local intel tool and that is not a balanced approach.