Your contradicting yourself here. Originally the armageddon was not a nuet ship, and we were talking about how the Tempest was used pre tiericide.

I'm not sure how I'm overplaying the weakness of the tempest. Your example above shows numbers, but it doesn't describe the fact that the tempest has no tank and a battleship with no tank, does not last very long just like a Tornado. Sure it might have more HP, and a lot more when you look at the numbers, but look at how much damage a tornado will do with an alpha or a maelstrom, hitting at over 10k damage, a couple of those hitting a tempest, bye bye tempest. Won't take very long to shoot one down.

Tempest:

Minmatar Battleship Skill Bonuses:
+8.5% bonus to Large Projectile Turret rate of fire
+5% bonus to Large Projectile Turret falloff

Slot layout: 8H, 5M, 6L; 6 turrets , 4 launchers
Fittings: 16000 PWG, 550 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 6900 (-100) / 6900 (-400) / 6800
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second) : 5400 / 1154s / 4.68
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 130 (+10) / .11 (-0.1) / 101050000 / ??
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 75 / 75
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 67.5km / 100 / 7
Sensor strength: 20 Ladar Sensor Strength
Signature radius: 350 (-10)

Seeing as tiers have now been removed completely from the game, why exactly should the Mael, which is much stronger EHP wise, also be able out damage the Tempest, therefore always leaving the Tempest in a poor second place. I think this paradigm is the possible cause of the Tempests current issue.

By combining bonuses and giving a 8.5% rate of fire bonus instead this is what you are looking at in terms of sustained dps when looking at projectiles taking 100% as the max.

Mael - 100%
Tornado - 100%
Tempest - 98%

So the sustained Dps of the Tempest is just below that of the Tornado and Mael. Then when you take into account the two utilities you will be doing more sustained dps over a period of time.

Now looking at alpha damage this is how it looks with again 100% as the max.

Mael - 100%
Tornado - 100%
Tempest - 75%

So clear roles are evident here now. If you want sustained dps with a mobile hull then the Tempest is now looking very attractive. If you want alpha then you want to go for the mael or the tornado.

Now the falloff bonus is included as the Tempest is an attack BS, and so kiting will be the predominant tactic, this bonus fits that role perfectly with either autos or artillery.

With a proposal along these lines you are getting clear roles for each BS. I haven't calulated where the Typhoon fits in here, but I assume it is putting out even more dps due to its relatively weaker hull as it quite rightly should do. And obviously being a missile ship there is little overlap between the projectile firing Tempest.

If any further nerfs are needed then I would drop EHP further if deemed necessary, although a modicum of EHP will be required as it is intended to kite so will still be sustaining damage despite being able to perhaps mitigate some. But perhaps with this level of dps some reduction may be needed to offset the damage.

But in essence what you will have is a very clear roles.

If you want mobile projectile based dps, then you would choose the Tempest.
If you want sniping, then you go for the Tornado.
If you want fleet ship with heavy tank, good sustained dps and alpha, but a slow hull to compensate, then you have the Mael.
If you want mobile missile based dps, then you go for the Typhoon.

Seeing as tiers have now been removed completely from the game, why exactly should the Mael, which is much stronger EHP wise, also be able out damage the Tempest, therefore always leaving the Tempest in a poor second place. I think this paradigm is the possible cause of the Tempests current issue.

If the navy version of the phoon will get missile focus then that will be an interesting sight. 7/5/8 slot layout is very... how should i put it...brutal. probably it will have 125mbit drone bay.

lets see:
- 5 sentries check.
- armor tank check.
- 2 bcs, 2 drone dmg ench check.
- 2 tp check,
- 1 ab check.

I still have two free med slot. what should I fit into those? drone range+ falloff modules, or a web and an additional tp?

I never used a phoon navy though. can it's cap handle the 1-2 reps without cap module? (have max cap skills) Also the third rig should be sentry rig or what?

I'm asking this for the regular phoon to. I'm asking in conjuction of the odyssey changes.

I want to maximize my dps. and with the expl velocity bonus and 2 free tp i can now do that to small targets too. without the need of smaller drones. So throw me a bone here. If I have to change from navy raven, at least I want to know my options.

please do something about the slot layout on the tempest holy christ

And after testing the phoon on sisi, even with crap cpu, holy **** what an amazing ship to fly. The Tempest is a joke. I do a better job kitting with a domi (lol at 700 dps gardes @56km optimal)

CCP Rises bigger hurricane nonsense has never seemed more out of touch.

Kitting with auto's is dumb in the land of fast ravens spewing 600-700 dps worth of 10km/s cruise missiles out to practically infinity. I mean, what's the point of doing half that dps at only 40-50km? Or a third that dps with armour?

so typhoon had:

8 high slots
5 launchers
5 turrets
5 heavy drones

you could fit it as missile boat with 3x neuts, or as a projectile boat with 3x neuts
while doing additional 300+ DPS with drones.

you didn't HAVE to have missiles and projectiles and drone skills to be good with phoon.

you could fit it with great tank or gank or neut platform, whatever you wanted.
It is called VERSATILITY

now it is a standard grey ship capable for only 1 role.
drone damage is gone, ability to fit autocanons is gone, ability to be a neut platform is gone.

why.

Abandon all hope all ye enter here.

I
The only Tempest Fit I found that I liked used a LAAR and a LAR2. It would rep 980 DPS and put out 900 DPS as well. It has a bit more projection and speed then the Hyperion. It definitely was a low sec toy though.

With a dual rep tank I can fit very little in the 2 high slots, medium smart bombs or heavy missiles, even then I often run out of cpu.

With 3 damage mods, you have 640 turret dps with barrage. That's not much at any range these days:

With Hail it's almost 900 dps with 3+18km but compare that with the phoon - almost 790 dps with fury missiles, with 100km range. And that's with cruise missiles, and not including drones -




I'm kinda disposed to the idea of the tempest being a mini-nagflar with 5 turrets and a 7.5% damage bonus now - it'll have 2 spare highs and 6 mids and 6 lows. Give it +200 cpu and +3000 grid leaving us free to fit it however we like.

Confirming the typhoon is losing the best reasons to fly it.

(The Typhoon is advertised as 100/100 but it's actually 100/125 on the test server.)

\o/

\o/