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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 30 post(s) |
Vinyl 41
Perkone Academy
5
|
Posted - 2013.10.07 19:17:00 -
[4951] - Quote
done sev missions today and i dont rly feel any changes form TQ l4 are just as easy as they were the only difference now is that thx to the bastion you dont need the pimp stuff simple t2 stuff does the job :/ oh and missions with gates on 60km are a pain now on a side note can we increase the TP circle duration to 7 seconds that 5 second circle sucks its the same stuff as with 10 they never finish when you want them to right now im not a big fan of all those changes to marauders there is just not much difference from the TQ ones |
MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1344
|
Posted - 2013.10.07 19:22:00 -
[4952] - Quote
about teh bastion mode would it be possilbe to add a ship skill bonus to reduce the bastion activation cycle time by 3 seconds per level. that way at level 5 the mod will cycle every 45 seconds.
as noted the full one minute timer can be a tad long. There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Winter Expansion new ship request |
Joe Risalo
State War Academy Caldari State
543
|
Posted - 2013.10.07 19:26:00 -
[4953] - Quote
Vinyl 41 wrote:done sev missions today and i dont rly feel any changes form TQ l4 are just as easy as they were the only difference now is that thx to the bastion you dont need the pimp stuff simple t2 stuff does the job :/ oh and missions with gates on 60km are a pain now on a side note can we increase the TP circle duration to 7 seconds that 5 second circle sucks its the same stuff as with 10 they never finish when you want them to right now im not a big fan of all those changes to marauders there is just not much difference from the TQ ones
As far as completion times, CCP wasn't trying to speed that up, but they were trying to make Marauders better tank, and balance their sensor, and apparently too my advice and the advice of others to allow ewar immunity, although we were only suggesting npc ewar immunity.
However, compared to pretty much every other lvl 4 mission capable ship, Marauders have always had tanking issues due to their massive sig, slow speed, and the fact that players wanted to use short range weapons most of the time. |
Dorororo
Keroro Platoon
4
|
Posted - 2013.10.07 19:47:00 -
[4954] - Quote
Bastion range bonus is pretty underwhelming.
With the Paladin's new optimal range bonus, it already hits 80/96 km optimal/falloff with Scorch and 2 TCs with optimal range scripts. Turning on Bastion boosts this to 94/112, which is about a 17% boost to both optimal and falloff. Doesn't really seem like much of a game-changer, especially in exchange for complete immobility (granted Bastion has other benefits)
At this point I would probably only ever activate Bastion for the ewar immunity, and I will not be using the MJD as its more hassle than it's worth.
Edit: Spoke too soon. Upon further thought it might allow me to switch out those TCs and mount 2x webs instead, even without the web bonus this would help with close in targets while maintaining similar range as on TQ. Hmm. But basically I don't see Bastion really helping snipers that much. |
Allandri
Liandri Industrial Liandri Covenant
57
|
Posted - 2013.10.07 19:58:00 -
[4955] - Quote
I really think the Bastion module needs another penalty besides immobility and no remote assistance. Decreased cap regen or an actual cap use to the module seems like it would balance out the positives |
Vulfen
Snuff Box
63
|
Posted - 2013.10.07 20:06:00 -
[4956] - Quote
@ CCP
After doing some testing on fittings on test and using EFT.
The Kronos & Paladin definitely suffer from a slot layout problem 8 highs is good but they dont need 3 utility highs currently a proteus can get 700 dps at the same range as a kronos costing 3 times the amount can deal 750 dps not in bastion (theoretical in fall off) bastion does not boost it by enough to make it worth loosing RR ability The proteus can match the tank, at double the speed and maneuverability.
And again based on current prices the proteus is 1/3 of the cost.
Therefore i believe we need to loose one of the high slots and give either a mid or a low, by doing this then you can choose your mod and either fit more dps/tank with a low or a TC to improve dmg application to make it beat a T3 for range
the only advantage between Marauder over T3 is the MJD bonus, but that just isnt enough.
The current layouts are great for pve but just not right for pvp |
Jacob Bok'Kila
Viziam Amarr Empire
6
|
Posted - 2013.10.07 20:06:00 -
[4957] - Quote
Allandri wrote:I really think the Bastion module needs another penalty besides immobility and no remote assistance. Decreased cap regen or an actual cap use to the module seems like it would balance out the positives
One point of bastion is to reduce the energy needs of the tank... |
Joe Risalo
State War Academy Caldari State
543
|
Posted - 2013.10.07 20:09:00 -
[4958] - Quote
Allandri wrote:I really think the Bastion module needs another penalty besides immobility and no remote assistance. Decreased cap regen or an actual cap use to the module seems like it would balance out the positives
Are you special Ed? |
Joe Risalo
State War Academy Caldari State
543
|
Posted - 2013.10.07 20:15:00 -
[4959] - Quote
Vulfen wrote:@ CCP
After doing some testing on fittings on test and using EFT.
The Kronos & Paladin definitely suffer from a slot layout problem 8 highs is good but they dont need 3 utility highs currently a proteus can get 700 dps at the same range as a kronos costing 3 times the amount can deal 750 dps not in bastion (theoretical in fall off) bastion does not boost it by enough to make it worth loosing RR ability The proteus can match the tank, at double the speed and maneuverability.
And again based on current prices the proteus is 1/3 of the cost.
Therefore i believe we need to loose one of the high slots and give either a mid or a low, by doing this then you can choose your mod and either fit more dps/tank with a low or a TC to improve dmg application to make it beat a T3 for range
the only advantage between Marauder over T3 is the MJD bonus, but that just isnt enough.
The current layouts are great for pve but just not right for pvp
The Golem could go for an 8th mid as well. With 2-3 TPs needed, MJD, cap booster, and the rest being tank, we don't have any room for play. |
Edora Madullier
French Kiss Singularity Astromechanica Federatis
25
|
Posted - 2013.10.07 20:40:00 -
[4960] - Quote
Lair Osen wrote:To test Bastion on SiSi, goto Moveme channel and type bastion to get skills for all marauders and bastion.
On the Bastion Module. please ensure the range bonuses are non-stacking, since they're half the reason to use the modules and they don't seem to be ATM.
Thanks! My Tachyon Paladin has 69km range with Multifrequency. I think the range bonuses of the Bastion Mode do indeed stack with my two TC II. The concept is not as awesome as I thought it would be, since you cannot MJD on the Acceleration Gate, warp through it and then instantly MJD again to take distance. But the fact that I cannot be TD'ed, damped, jammed is pretty awesome, and the LAR II giving me 25% armor every cycle is pretty amazing too.
I'm pretty satisfied atm. Gonna test Kronos and Vargur too, maybe even Golem, even if my Torpedoes skill is not at V. |
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Joe Risalo
State War Academy Caldari State
544
|
Posted - 2013.10.07 20:47:00 -
[4961] - Quote
Edora Madullier wrote:Lair Osen wrote:To test Bastion on SiSi, goto Moveme channel and type bastion to get skills for all marauders and bastion.
On the Bastion Module. please ensure the range bonuses are non-stacking, since they're half the reason to use the modules and they don't seem to be ATM. Thanks! My Tachyon Paladin has 69km range with Multifrequency. I think the range bonuses of the Bastion Mode do indeed stack with my two TC II. The concept is not as awesome as I thought it would be, since you cannot MJD on the Acceleration Gate, warp through it and then instantly MJD again to take distance. But the fact that I cannot be TD'ed, damped, jammed is pretty awesome, and the LAR II giving me 25% armor every cycle is pretty amazing too. I'm pretty satisfied atm. Gonna test Kronos and Vargur too, maybe even Golem, even if my Torpedoes skill is not at V.
Though I haven't used it yet, i'm not sure I like MJD bonus as we're still to slow to close the leftover distance. |
Vulfen
Snuff Box
63
|
Posted - 2013.10.07 20:53:00 -
[4962] - Quote
Joe Risalo wrote:
The Golem could go for an 8th mid as well. With 2-3 TPs needed, MJD, cap booster, and the rest being tank, we don't have any room for play.
i agree i haven't tested them though cuz i dont used shield tank ships aften |
Joe Risalo
State War Academy Caldari State
544
|
Posted - 2013.10.07 20:56:00 -
[4963] - Quote
Vulfen wrote:Joe Risalo wrote:
The Golem could go for an 8th mid as well. With 2-3 TPs needed, MJD, cap booster, and the rest being tank, we don't have any room for play.
i agree i haven't tested them though cuz i dont used shield tank ships aften
Yeah, but the way the Golem as always worked, you either put a prop mod, a third tp, or increased tank.
Now that you're bonused to MJD, you have no free mid. |
marVLs
441
|
Posted - 2013.10.07 20:58:00 -
[4964] - Quote
By testing:
- Paladin can at least fit what You want, have superb cap (don't even try to nerf it), and that great range, but it have the worst damage type ammo and bad tracking compared to others
- Kronos definitely needs another med slot
- Vargur suffer the most because of bastion stacking ranges, it's not worth anything now when compared to others
- Golem, just a missile ship, range bonus on bastion is too damn low! and no other missile bonuses...
Bastion itself:
- tanking bonuses are cool but it's useless in PVE (at least in such big amount) - ewar immunity that's the only useful bonus - range bonuses... WTF CCP???!!! why its getting stacking penalized? - it should buff sensors - it should give no heat damage when overheating high slots or something else because that useles overtanked bonuses with stacking penalized range bonuses are not worth it to be immobilized
They need something more useful (when Rubicon hitting) in PVE than that tractor range (tractor structure makes that bonus useless). 8th high slot need to go away for something better like 3rd rig slot with veeery big calibration (600? would be cool )
All of marauders are too slow, and i mean not only their speed but terrible allign time and low warp speed (buff them buff them!)
All of them are no use in Incursions In lvl4 missions:
- Paladin may be better option than Nightmare for EM rats (that range, capacitor , both MJD and MWD fitted, ewar immunity)
- Kronos is more or less the same as Vindi in terms of effectiveness vs serpentis etc when fitting rails. Vindi is faster, more agile and got web bonus, Kronos can laught at these damps. No clear winner here
- Golem well... still RNI better because it's faster, more agile, half the price and with tractor structure golem loose it's trump card
- Vargur seems bad, because of no full range bonus in bastion, and nerf to speed in every aspect
|
Joe Risalo
State War Academy Caldari State
544
|
Posted - 2013.10.07 21:03:00 -
[4965] - Quote
marVLs wrote:By testing: - Paladin can at least fit what You want, have superb cap (don't even try to nerf it), and that great range, but it have the worst damage type ammo and bad tracking compared to others - Kronos definitely needs another med slot - Vargur suffer the most because of bastion stacking ranges, it's not worth anything now when compared to others - Golem, just a missile ship, range bonus on bastion is too damn low! and no other missile bonuses... Bastion itself: - tanking bonuses are cool but it's useless in PVE (at least in such big amount) - ewar immunity that's the only useful bonus - range bonuses... WTF CCP???!!! why its getting stacking penalized? - it should buff sensors - it should give no heat damage when overheating high slots or something else because that useles overtanked bonuses with stacking penalized range bonuses are not worth it to be immobilized They need something more useful (when Rubicon hitting) in PVE than that tractor range (tractor structure makes that bonus useless). 8th high slot need to go away for something better like 3rd rig slot with veeery big calibration (600? would be cool ) All of marauders are too slow, and i mean not only their speed but terrible allign time and low warp speed (buff them buff them!) All of them are no use in Incursions In lvl4 missions:
- Paladin may be better option than Nightmare for EM rats (that range, capacitor , both MJD and MWD fitted, ewar immunity)
- Kronos is more or less the same as Vindi in terms of effectiveness vs serpentis etc when fitting rails. Vindi is faster, more agile and got web bonus, Kronos can laught at these damps. No clear winner here
- Golem well... still RNI better because it's faster, more agile, half the price and with tractor structure golem loose it's trump card
- Vargur seems bad, because of no full range bonus in bastion, and nerf to speed in every aspect
Agreed with almost everything, but the uber tank is more for other uses as opposed to lvl 4 missions.
Quote:They need something more useful (when Rubicon hitting) in PVE than that tractor range (tractor structure makes that bonus useless).
This is assuming the tractor structure is worth a crap |
Cassius Invictus
Thou shalt not kill
42
|
Posted - 2013.10.07 21:15:00 -
[4966] - Quote
Joe Risalo wrote:Edora Madullier wrote:Lair Osen wrote:To test Bastion on SiSi, goto Moveme channel and type bastion to get skills for all marauders and bastion.
On the Bastion Module. please ensure the range bonuses are non-stacking, since they're half the reason to use the modules and they don't seem to be ATM. Thanks! My Tachyon Paladin has 69km range with Multifrequency. I think the range bonuses of the Bastion Mode do indeed stack with my two TC II. The concept is not as awesome as I thought it would be, since you cannot MJD on the Acceleration Gate, warp through it and then instantly MJD again to take distance. But the fact that I cannot be TD'ed, damped, jammed is pretty awesome, and the LAR II giving me 25% armor every cycle is pretty amazing too. I'm pretty satisfied atm. Gonna test Kronos and Vargur too, maybe even Golem, even if my Torpedoes skill is not at V. Though I haven't used it yet, i'm not sure I like MJD bonus as we're still to slow to close the leftover distance.
Can't see the application for MJD. Have run a few missions and MWD or AB seem to be much better. With Paladin range bonus for most missions you don't need bastion at all. It will be handy in just few harder missions.
Speed nerf hurts. A lot.
I can now fit 4 dmg mods for my Paladin (about 850 dps with scorch without drones), 2 IN EANM for 81/75/75/77 omni tank with bastion. Thats more than enough for any mission.
Fitting a web is actually a good idea now, since u don't need cap rechargers. It will help to deal with close orbiting cruisers and u can still fit propulsion and 1 TC.
Summary:
Bastion is meh. Immobility cancels out any bonuses it gives. Only ewar immunity is great.
MJD is totally useless (IMHO).
Tractor bonus does not correspond with range of guns and is next to useless now.
With bastion and drone nerf the ship could actually use a huge bonus to drones (like 10% dmg, hp, tracking) since it can only deploy lights. It would massively help dealing with elite frigs.
Speed nerf was done to force us into MJD. Sorry CCP I still wont use this module.
60 seconds cooldown on bastion is tragic. In most cases u sit 30 sec on grid while everything is dead and than u have to align. Before u could align while the last rat was dying.
Keep you marauder in hangar for 4-5 hardest missions. For the rest use a tengu or something. |
Allandri
Liandri Industrial Liandri Covenant
57
|
Posted - 2013.10.07 21:43:00 -
[4967] - Quote
marVLs wrote:By testing: - Golem, just a missile ship, range bonus on bastion is too damn low! and no other missile bonuses...
With max missile skills the Golem will reach out to 38 km with Rage torps, 57 km with Javelin torps, 208km with Fury cruises, and 138km with Precision cruises. That is a lot of range options available |
Allandri
Liandri Industrial Liandri Covenant
57
|
Posted - 2013.10.07 21:45:00 -
[4968] - Quote
Joe Risalo wrote:Allandri wrote:I really think the Bastion module needs another penalty besides immobility and no remote assistance. Decreased cap regen or an actual cap use to the module seems like it would balance out the positives Are you special Ed?
Stop thinking about PvE limitations |
baltec1
Bat Country
8157
|
Posted - 2013.10.07 21:57:00 -
[4969] - Quote
Allandri wrote:Joe Risalo wrote:Allandri wrote:I really think the Bastion module needs another penalty besides immobility and no remote assistance. Decreased cap regen or an actual cap use to the module seems like it would balance out the positives Are you special Ed? Stop thinking about PvE limitations
Its all they do |
Vulfen
Snuff Box
64
|
Posted - 2013.10.07 22:02:00 -
[4970] - Quote
Allandri wrote:Joe Risalo wrote:Allandri wrote:I really think the Bastion module needs another penalty besides immobility and no remote assistance. Decreased cap regen or an actual cap use to the module seems like it would balance out the positives Are you special Ed? Stop thinking about PvE limitations
a bs immobile in pvp is enough, sitting duck full damage to be taken, all it will take is a couple stealth bombers. the current iteration of the bastion module drawbacks is fine |
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Hanna Cyrus
Paranocxium Brotherhood Of Silent Space
25
|
Posted - 2013.10.07 22:08:00 -
[4971] - Quote
Have you tested it and compared to Tranq? I don't think so. I think that not many misssion runners would really use this mode, maybe as a oh **** button, but not more. I like the animation, but what get i for?
After testing the Kronos and the Vargur, i say no thanks bastion. I\m faster without the bastion mode. The too long cycle time and the other little things like, warpspeed, speed, cap recharge, ehp, dps (drone Bandwith) nerf compared to TQ makes this version bader, than it is at the moment.
A few Navy ships, are much cheaper, don't use so much training and perform better. I'm really disappointed. |
Joe Risalo
State War Academy Caldari State
544
|
Posted - 2013.10.07 22:10:00 -
[4972] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Allandri wrote:Joe Risalo wrote:Allandri wrote:I really think the Bastion module needs another penalty besides immobility and no remote assistance. Decreased cap regen or an actual cap use to the module seems like it would balance out the positives Are you special Ed? Stop thinking about PvE limitations Its all they do
Why would I not think about the pve limitations in a ship designed for pve???? |
Joe Risalo
State War Academy Caldari State
544
|
Posted - 2013.10.07 22:12:00 -
[4973] - Quote
Hanna Cyrus wrote:Have you tested it and compared to Tranq? I don't think so. I think that not many misssion runners would really use this mode, maybe as a oh **** button, but not more. I like the animation, but what get i for?
After testing the Kronos and the Vargur, i say no thanks bastion. I\m faster without the bastion mode. The too long cycle time and the other little things like, warpspeed, speed, cap recharge, ehp, dps (drone Bandwith) nerf compared to TQ makes this version bader, than it is at the moment.
A few Navy ships, are much cheaper, don't use so much training and perform better. I'm really disappointed.
Are you crazy?
I traded a golem for a freaking tenth cause it sucked so bad. I will use the hell out of bastion.... |
Vulfen
Snuff Box
64
|
Posted - 2013.10.07 22:28:00 -
[4974] - Quote
Joe Risalo wrote:Hanna Cyrus wrote:Have you tested it and compared to Tranq? I don't think so. I think that not many misssion runners would really use this mode, maybe as a oh **** button, but not more. I like the animation, but what get i for?
After testing the Kronos and the Vargur, i say no thanks bastion. I\m faster without the bastion mode. The too long cycle time and the other little things like, warpspeed, speed, cap recharge, ehp, dps (drone Bandwith) nerf compared to TQ makes this version bader, than it is at the moment.
A few Navy ships, are much cheaper, don't use so much training and perform better. I'm really disappointed. Are you crazy? I traded a golem for a freaking tengu cause it sucked so bad. I will use the hell out of bastion....
if your mission does not have huge distances between gates n has big spawns then the golem is great u can fit it with a small booster and easily tank extravaganza final room |
Wedgetail
Helix Pulse Brothers of Tangra
37
|
Posted - 2013.10.07 22:28:00 -
[4975] - Quote
Cassius Invictus wrote: Summary:
Bastion is meh. Immobility cancels out any bonuses it gives. Only ewar immunity is great.
MJD is totally useless (IMHO).
Tractor bonus does not correspond with range of guns and is next to useless now.
With bastion and drone nerf the ship could actually use a huge bonus to drones (like 10% dmg, hp, tracking) since it can only deploy lights. It would massively help dealing with elite frigs.
Speed nerf was done to force us into MJD. Sorry CCP I still wont use this module.
60 seconds cooldown on bastion is tragic. In most cases u sit 30 sec on grid while everything is dead and than u have to align. Before u could align while the last rat was dying.
Keep you marauder in hangar for 4-5 hardest missions. For the rest use a tengu or something.
pretty much what we've been telling them since they announced this =/ but good luck getting them to back pedal now. |
Edora Madullier
French Kiss Singularity Astromechanica Federatis
25
|
Posted - 2013.10.07 22:31:00 -
[4976] - Quote
Joe Risalo wrote:Though I haven't used it yet, i'm not sure I like MJD bonus as we're still to slow to close the leftover distance.
There is no leftover distance if you do it right. It's pretty easy given the large "hitbox" of the Acceleration Gates. Cargo containers with mission items is another story though, I guess. |
Brib Vogt
DC-centre Destiny's Call
8
|
Posted - 2013.10.07 22:34:00 -
[4977] - Quote
Completely unsatisfied:
CNR > Golem
Macha > Vargur
Bastion gives a good tank, but it so hyped fall off bonus gives my vargur 3 km!! In words THREE KILOMETER!
Thats absolutely Crap. And my Macha is working better in any mission DPS wise.
A bit sad right now |
Aglais
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
411
|
Posted - 2013.10.07 23:06:00 -
[4978] - Quote
Well it seems that Marauders are nearly invulnerable if you fit them right.
I don't really know what to make of this. |
Joe Risalo
State War Academy Caldari State
544
|
Posted - 2013.10.07 23:07:00 -
[4979] - Quote
Edora Madullier wrote:Joe Risalo wrote:Though I haven't used it yet, i'm not sure I like MJD bonus as we're still to slow to close the leftover distance. There is no leftover distance if you do it right. It's pretty easy given the large "hitbox" of the Acceleration Gates. Cargo containers with mission items is another story though, I guess.
yeah, but if i'm 60km from the gate when I hit the mission, it's not very likely that without geometry that i'll hit my first jump well enough to catch the second. And if I just to a gate 60km away, i'll miss by at least 20km. |
Xequecal
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
91
|
Posted - 2013.10.07 23:37:00 -
[4980] - Quote
Joe Risalo wrote:Are you crazy?
I traded a golem for a freaking tengu cause it sucked so bad. I will use the hell out of bastion....
In L4s the only thing that matters is DPS, or, well, applied DPS. Bastion is useless here. You don't need tank anyways, and you can't dictate the range like you can in anoms where everything spawns in the same place.
The Marauders are mainly good for w-space and for nullsec anom running. Just do forsaken hubs and asteroid havens with something like this:
[New Setup 1] Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Tracking Enhancer II Tracking Enhancer II Tracking Enhancer II
100MN Microwarpdrive II Gist C-Type Large Shield Booster Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I Cap Recharger II
Neutron Blaster Cannon II,Void L Neutron Blaster Cannon II,Void L Neutron Blaster Cannon II,Void L Neutron Blaster Cannon II,Void L Small Tractor Beam II Small Tractor Beam II Heavy Diminishing Power System Drain I Bastion Mode I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Large Hybrid Collision Accelerator II
MWD to center of spawn, activate bastion and immediately turn it red, shoot stuff, tractor in BS wrecks that have loot, have salvage drones going salvaging stuff for you. When bastion runs out, MWD to where the next spawn appears, repeat. Blaster tracking is good enough to hit frigates if you web them, and this tanks enough dps for Gurista/Serpentis anoms. |
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