You can just remove the FAKE 5% capacitor capacity bonus. THis is a bonus that was removed form apocalypse YEARS ago becuasse its a FAKE bonus that shoudlbe rolle din the hull.

If the paladin losses the RANGE bonus, then it become a useless piece of ****, alongside the other marauders.

The range is the only thing that really ins increasing mission speed in this patch.

why do you all hate machariel too much? maybe the reason is that some used them in AT and kicked your teams ass.. i have an alt flies machariel since nos nerf(RIP my old TFI) and almost same dps with better range and relax tanking and good mobility, machariel gave me..

the only matari philosophy, versatile and fast, hit and run, battleship is machariel, sad but true, matari style combat has been broken ages, maybe since it became only for hisec suicide ganks..

some crazy guys fly them 5-slot shield tanking and choose often mach than vindi, doesnt mean vindi is perfect but machariel not..

only thing i can agree, rattlesnake needs a remake/revamp..

Kronos is Lame

...

It's not FAKE bonus, i still get 25% more cap at level 5.
...

I very much get it. YOU on the other hand DOES NOT get it. Is it really that complicated for you? really?

It has 8 cap/sec, kronos has 6 cap/sec, others got 5.5 and 5.6.

Amarr ships have always had slightly more cap/sec (apart from t2's etc because whoever desined the t2 command ships etc is a lazy clown)

Currently BEFORE said bonus is applied the Paladin has 33.33% more cap/sec than the Kronos, that's HUGE, that's like an officer cap relay buildt into it. add the 25% cap bonus and it's got 10 cap/sec compared to 6 on the Kronos(yes I am very much aware that this takes up 1 of it's bonuses)

You honestly think it's fine that Paladin would have 66.67% more cap/sec than the Kronos without any bonuses and over 78-80%+ more than Vargur and Golem? Please don't ever post on these forums again if you don't happen to have any clue about what you're saying.


Paladin is BEAST post changes, Golem is lame, Kronos is Lame, and Vargur is ASS.

I've never flown in the AT and I can tell you that the Machariel's heading for a nerf. The same thing for the Cynabal and possibly the Dramiel. They're incredibly fast ships with not-so-bad tanks and devastating damage output.

This, however, isn't the pirate rebalancing thread so I'll leave anything else for that thread.

For the love of God stop introducing new skills and modules for no reason and just balance the ships. This Bastion thing will be incredibly OP in niche PvP situations and most PvE situations and incredibly useless the rest of the time.

I've never flown in the AT and I can tell you that the Machariel's heading for a nerf. The same thing for the Cynabal and possibly the Dramiel. They're incredibly fast ships with not-so-bad tanks and devastating damage output.

This, however, isn't the pirate rebalancing thread so I'll leave anything else for that thread.

We don't hate it, we love it. Unfortunately it is simply far too good compared to other battleships.

Don't you get it? The moment you can put your ass in that ship you have already trained your Amarr Battleship skill to 5. That means you get +25% total cap at most early stage of your life with Paladin. Total amount of cap can be integrated in hull (as it's just one of hull's attributes, and was done in previous balancing of other ships). The more reasonable bonus would be -10% (or -5% or -7.5% or -3.75% any would do) to Energy weapon cap consumption as in some other cases. Or any other bonus, but something that not related to hull's attributes. Something like mentioned already weapon/module bonuses.

Are we still trying to nerf the Paladin?

Is there really anything else left to do in this thread without further reply from Ytterbium?

I say we nerf the Vargur and Kronos to finish them off.

We could discuss the Golem's uses as a RHML boat.

The Paladin's optimal range bonus is a way stronger than average bonus so you get a weaker bonus to balance it.

Omg .. and HOW much cap TACHYONS use compared to the weapons the Kronos use?

Clearly you are the one that does not have a clue. I play this game for 7 years, and there always were a reason for ammar have FAR more capacitor than other races.

And my line of reasoning was EXACLTY the one CCP gave OFFICIALLY when they removed that SAME CAPACITOR BONUS form the old apoc. YES.. SAME BONUS!!!! That the paladin inherited because It was made BEFORE the APOC was changed and the Capacitor bonus was rolled INTO the hull.

So shut up. If you are too young to remember when the APOC was changed you should not emit opinion on this.

Trough tiercide CCP has been removign such bonuses, as in the VAgabond for example. For exact same reason, they are FAKE bonuses!

My experience using all 4 marauders on sisi for pve is as follows:

Paladin: Monster tachyon boat at 60-120km. Beyond that dps starts dropping hard due to low damage crystals. Pulses are also a viable option if going for lower level pve where incoming damage is negligible and neuts are rare (ie lvl4 missions).

Golem: Monster cruise missile boat, does as much dps at 249.9km as the paladin does at 60km. But it's also missiles, so yeah, damage tends to be mitigated a bit but overall it seems better against BC/BS npc's and structures. Top dog for high level pve. Torps should be useful in lvl4's as well using the MJD to get into range.

Kronos: Ok with railguns, I'd say slightly inferior to the Paladin but still pretty good. Range and dps are very similar, the real difference is simply optimal vs falloff. Hard to say how it will play out with a blaster fit in lvl4's. I don't think they quite have the range to work with a MJD.

Vargur: Of no value in high level pve. Even with arty, the range is just too short to out range neut towers and arty is ill suited to lvl4 missions. AC's can be used effectively with the MJD but work heavily in falloff. End result is a rather lackluster pve ship.

The only one I really tested in pvp was the vargur and although it draws the short straw in pve, it's a beast in small gang pvp. That tank combined with good tracking and average dps make for a real monster. An immobile monster with zero EW, but as a dps ship in a small gang with proper tackle, it's nasty. Same could probably be said for a torp golem though I didn't try it. I tried to make a decent Paladin PvP fit but was unimpressed by the results, never even bothered to undock it. I suspect the Kronos is similar. The whole active armor tanking thing just doesn't work very well in my experience.

Edit: I find the whole capacitor argument silly. Look at the overall ship, not individual bonuses. With the rep off, the paladin can fire tachyons with gleam all day without capping out using no cap increasing modules. But it can't run any sort of active tank like that or a prop mod. That makes it similar in overall cap state to the other 3 marauders.

Golem does more damage at 240km than paladin.
So no, paladin is not "way stronger" than golem.

Raven does more damage than any turret BS at >60km. Do people use Raven fleets in PvP? No, they don't.

Played since 2004, I very much remember when paladin had the cap bonus. I even remember when Blackbirds fit Torps and Thoraxes flew around with 8 heavy drones. (didn'-¿t play when frigs fit CM's)

Removing the cap bonus would give it less cap/sec than it has on sisi now, as it would NOT be allowed to have that bonus buidlt into the hull ON TOP of the "bonus" it already has buildt in which balances out Tachs cap use and some extra. If you expect it to have 66% better than Kronos while shedding that bonus for a tracking bonus, Esp considering how powerful it is now, then you are a complete and utter moron.

But it's already proven by your comments that you're an idiot of a rather high magnitude.

So stop your insulting of people when you have absolutely no clue what balance is. you are dumb as F.

The Paladin's optimal range bonus is a way stronger than average bonus so you get a weaker bonus to balance it. How many battleships other than the Marauders get an range bonus and a damage bonus? Right, just the Machariel, otherwise known as the most overpowered ship in the game. The Paladin bonus is also an optimal bonus, which means you get 100% of your DPS for the whole range, unlike the falloff bonuses of the other 3 ships that get range + damage bonuses. It's not a "worthless bonus" any more than any of the other base hull bonuses on any other T2 ship.

And those other hull bonuse son t2 hulls, based on the t1 skills ahve been mostly removed trough tiercide. That is my point.

My original statement was that if they removed the range bonus for soemthiugn weaker like tracking Then they should integrate the cap bonus in the hull and give somethign on its place.

And what should be given in it's place ? that wouldn't be overpowered? if I may ask? Less cap use on guns with 4 turrets for even more ridiculous cap benefit to the Paladin?

As I stated, that would be moslty needed if the RANGE bonus was to be removed as the guy just before myoriginal post was requiring. On the current scenario, with the range bonus the "lost" bonus is acceptable. But if paladin lost its only POWERFUl bonus, then the cap bonus would need to be gone for basically anything useful.