I've been following this thread since day one and can I just say that when 90% of the past 20 pages are the same 3-4 people re-hashing the same idea over and over (and 50% of those are one guy...), maybe it is time for everyone to step back, shut up, and wait for CCP Rise to come back and give us some more info...

I love the ships as they stand now, but I don't think we can really have anymore reasonable discussion until CCP Rise comes back.

I believe they (might) be working on the ability to keep any unused utility items you find and also sell them on the market.

Expanded utility slots would be a great addition for Covert Ops/Explotarion Frigates IMO

Honestly the extra utility slot idea is so far the best one I have heard in this entire thread and one I can fully support especially if you can sell them later or if they are transferable from site to site. will make the mini-game super easy though.

the problem is you are introducing multiple new game mechanics that would take months of coding just to make one ship a special snowflake. the gain to work ratio is not viable and the concentration of new mechanics players will need to learn just because of one ship is also not fair. you will need to justify applying these mechanics to other ships to make it viable.
your best is to take one single new mechanic and reason how that one mechanic can be applied to multiple ships while staying balanced. if you want to be taken seriously focusing on single or small changes will be better than random expansive flights of fancy where every suggestion is bigger and more special than the previous.

that isnt to say that your sugestions are bad in any way but you have to expect some degree of doubt as to the viability of being able to implement even a single one of your sugestions. maybe look at the suggestion forum if you are serious about the defender missle thing.

Astero
- Currently only has 2 high power slots, 2 turret hard points
- Can only fit two guns, no cloak - alternatively cloak + probe launcher
- There is no cloaky combat fit possible at the moment - needs 4 high slots: cloak, probe launcher, 2 guns
- Does not have a probe launcher CPU bonus - can't fit expanded probe launcher
- Does not have a laser weapon bonus - no one will fit lasers to this ship
- Armor Resists on a cloaky frig (where defence = not being seen) seems unfitting

Also please mention if this ship can use black ops bridges and light covert cynos

no cloaky combat fit? what in the hay are you smokig? a full flight of 5 double health t2 drones with drone space for 10 more and potentially a DDA in the low isnt combat? really?

the ship isnt designed to hunt down enemy players, its an exploration ship that cam defend itself from or kill players already running sites.

understand what the ship is designed for then perhaps you can try to not turn it into a cloaky AF.

no cloaky combat fit? what in the hay are you smokig? a full flight of 5 double health t2 drones with drone space for 10 more and potentially a DDA in the low isnt combat? really?

the ship isnt designed to hunt down enemy players, its an exploration ship that cam defend itself from or kill players already running sites.

understand what the ship is designed for then perhaps you can try to not turn it into a cloaky AF.

Well, two highs is a bit tight for exploration though. That means no salvaging. It's bearable, but reducing frig's value quite a bit.

Astero

Role Bonus: 100% reduction in CPU requiement for cloaks
Role Bonus: 37.5% increase Scan Prob Strength (maybe this should be a rounder number? right now it follows the t1 bonus)
Role Bonus: +5 Virus strength for Relic and Data Analyzers

Can fit Cover Ops Cloaking devices

Amarr Frigate Bonus:
4% bonus to Armor Resists

Gallente Frigate Bonus:
20% bonus to drone hitpoints

Slot layout: 2H, 4M, 4L; 2 turrets, 0 launchers
Fittings: 32 PWG, 170 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 540 / 600 / 600
Capacitor (amount) : 430
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 312 / 2.87 / 975000 / 3.88s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 25 / 75
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 37km / 620 / 6
Sensor strength: 13
Signature radius: 35
Cargo Capacity: 210

Stratios

Role Bonus: 50% reduction in Energy Turret capacitor need
Role Bonus: 37.5% increase Scan Prob Strength (maybe this should be a rounder number? right now it follows the t1 bonus)
Role Bonus: +5 Virus strength for Relic and Data Analyzers

Can fit Cover Ops Cloaking devices

Amarr Cruiser Bonus:
4% bonus to Armor Resists

Gallente Cruiser Bonus:
10% bonus to Drone hitpoints and damage

Slot layout: 5H, 5M, 5L; 4 turrets, 0 launchers
Fittings: 920 PWG, 400 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1950 / 2400 / 2450
Capacitor (amount) : 1700
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 182 / .47 / 9350000 / 6.09s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 125 / 500
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 55km / 275 / 7
Sensor strength: 20
Signature radius: 150
Cargo Capacity: 550

no cloaky combat fit? what in the hay are you smokig? a full flight of 5 double health t2 drones with drone space for 10 more and potentially a DDA in the low isnt combat? really?

You have a 75m3 drone bay, you can keep 2 flights of light combat drones and a flight of salvage drones. With the 20% drone HP bonus it is unlikely you will be losing drones very fast so only having 2 flights of lights will be ok.

And you're wrong if you think you can kill somebody with this, either. It only has 4 mids. 2 hacking modules, one prop mod, and a cargo scanner are what you need for doing data and relic sites. That means no web to actually let your drones apply serious damage.

Like I said, the frigate suffers from extremely confused design that isn't made up for easily at the frigate level of fitting.

@ CCP, i think what your doing with these ships is great and congratulate you on some fine work. However ive seen come people posting about another SOE ship called the Nestor - BS class ship. Is this a planned ships that might be released?

Asking for a data/relic site site explo frigate in exploration fit to kill combat frigate in combat fit... Don't you think you are asking too much ?

A cloak on top of combat capabilities is largely enough for people to not use it for exploration. This ship is the perfect cloaky combat frigate already but moving a low to a high might be too much.

It doesn't have combat capabilities. It can defend itself adequately against rats, that's all. It can put out, what, 75 dps (estimated, I am at work or I'd check) from it's unbonused drones?

Everything stands to suggest that the Nestor is indeed planned, but I wager they're looking to see how the frigate and cruiser balance out before moving forward with it.

99dps with T2 Hobs - with DDAs can put it upto 146 in a semi sensbile fit so its got a fair bit of teeth.

Kind of like it as it is - though I'd like to see it get a bonus to amarr drone damage so we see a bit of flavor in drones used and also acolytes have fairly decent tank, speed and tracking but lack for damage so with a bonus (say a static 50% bonus to amarr drone damage) that brought them up very slightly above unbonused hobs it would give the astero some nice but not OP combat ability.

Ah, yes, T2 hobs. I was in the neighborhood at least. Not too shabby for a guy with a 101 fever lol.

Ok, so you can pump it up to about 145 in a "semi sensible" fit? Curious as to what this fit might be, and how much tank it has overall as well.

I agree with your second point, kinda. I would just prefer to see drones get reworked completely, from the ground up. They are the mechanic more than anything else in this game that shows it's age. That way, we can actually have a legitimate reason to use the other two race's drones, and maybe we can make the overall weapon system less of a cluster****.

Ah, yes, T2 hobs. I was in the neighborhood at least. Not too shabby for a guy with a 101 fever lol.

Ok, so you can pump it up to about 145 in a "semi sensible" fit? Curious as to what this fit might be, and how much tank it has overall as well.

I agree with your second point, kinda. I would just prefer to see drones get reworked completely, from the ground up. They are the mechanic more than anything else in this game that shows it's age. That way, we can actually have a legitimate reason to use the other two race's drones, and maybe we can make the overall weapon system less of a cluster****.

In a frigate duel, all that matter is damage projection and control. The Stratios have a full flight of drones (unbonused is the norm for frigate, because that would be OP otherwise). The 99dps of HobgobII, because they can be projected to scram range, put the Stratios to a high grade dps at this range (few frigates can project that much at scram range), and it largely have the place for a DDA to push it higher. Then you have the 4 mid slots to control whatever you want. And finaly, a huge armor tank to outlast the ennemy if it's needed.

If ANY of that is true about drones then why is the Worm not a top tier frigate? They're damn near the same ship, after all, unbonused light drones and everything.

Because the Worm have a shield resist bonus you'll lose if you armor tank, don't have any drone bonus but the obsolete drone bay one, and because the Tristan have close to the same performances. And finaly, the Worm don't have any special feature to justify its pirate frigate price. (And it's slow to top it off).

Yet it's not really bad, but not good enough for its price.

Ok, and that just goes to show that the Astero doesn't even measure up (which is the point I was trying to make in the first place). The Worm has, if anything, a better tanking bonus, while the Tristan has vastly better damage output. (in the whole school of thought of "kill them before they kill me" I'd rate the Tristan as the best out of the 3 frigates in question)

And neither of them are considered top tier frigates.

Ok, and that just goes to show that the Astero doesn't even measure up (which is the point I was trying to make in the first place). The Worm has, if anything, a better tanking bonus, while the Tristan has vastly better damage output. (in the whole school of thought of "kill them before they kill me" I'd rate the Tristan as the best out of the 3 frigates in question)

And neither of them are considered top tier frigates.