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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 15 post(s) |

Banjo String
Aliastra Gallente Federation
7
|
Posted - 2013.10.19 13:22:00 -
[1021] - Quote
lol at all the ohmagawd the API will Lie! posts from Goons. I Wonder why that is? Broken your automatic warning system?
|

Abdiel Kavash
Paladin Order Fidelas Constans
1378
|
Posted - 2013.10.19 13:28:00 -
[1022] - Quote
Banjo String wrote:lol at all the ohmagawd the API will Lie! posts from Goons. I Wonder why that is? Broken your automatic warning system?
It would be funny if NPCs in missions could randomly get a double damage boost, but your shield/armor meters would lie about the damage you're taking and only show loss due to regular DPS. See why data sources lying to us is bad? |

Jimmy Farrere
University of Caille Gallente Federation
12
|
Posted - 2013.10.19 13:30:00 -
[1023] - Quote
Isn't the main problem with these things that they are just way too small? Like 10 times too small? Make them bigger.
It doesn't matter that the cost is low if you can only fit 1 or 2 in a frigate. No need to limit the amount deployed per player, if someone puts the effort into moving 100 behind enemy lines then let them run riot. The moon holders actually get some targets to go after rather than bubble immune, un-catchable interceptors.
Seriously, increasing the size of them puts the effort back into the mechanic without pricing them out of anyone's range or bringing in artificial limits.
Also, unless we are talking about a space carrier bag, how the hell does a 20m3 unit hold 1200m3 of goo? make them 200m3 empty, all problems solved. |

Varius Xeral
Galactic Trade Syndicate
1440
|
Posted - 2013.10.19 13:39:00 -
[1024] - Quote
I will summarize this entire thread with a slightly hyperbolic metaphor:
CCP: We will create a New Utopia by employing arm-banded thugs to control everyone for their own good. The Unwashed Eve Masses: Ooooh, a New Utopia. That sounds great. A Few of Us: What was that arm-banded thugs part again?
Forest, trees, etc. Official Representative of The Nullsec Zealot Cabal |

Zakhin Desver
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
4
|
Posted - 2013.10.19 13:56:00 -
[1025] - Quote
Varius Xeral wrote:I will summarize this entire thread with a slightly hyperbolic metaphor:
CCP: We will create a New Utopia by employing arm-banded thugs to control everyone for their own good. The Unwashed Eve Masses: Ooooh, a New Utopia. That sounds great. A Few of Us: What was that arm-banded thugs part again?
Forest, trees, etc.
Aren't we already controlled by arm-banded thugs? Specially in nullsec |

Johnny Marzetti
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
777
|
Posted - 2013.10.19 14:05:00 -
[1026] - Quote
Fenrix Mernher wrote:The amount of posturing and whining by goons in this thread shows how good an idea it is.
Did you see my post against self-immolation? A lot of goons agreed with me. So go hog wild.
|

Miner Hottie
Polaris Rising Gentlemen's Agreement
27
|
Posted - 2013.10.19 14:05:00 -
[1027] - Quote
Fenrix Mernher wrote:Siobhan Teregone wrote:Fenrix Mernher wrote:Miner Hottie wrote:Fenrix Mernher wrote:"ablooblooblooooo my precious afk moon money"
It'll be good for the game, vast empty passages of space should have vulnerable resource streams. Others in this thread have already explained to your fellow low sloping foreheads why POS's aren't AFK income, but I doubt you understood it. Just like I doubt you'll understand what will happen when goons unleash this on everyone else. Anyway, as a member of the elite N3 coalition, why don't you form a fleet and conquer those valuable streams of income then? Or is it too far below your elite self to engage in a structure bash? Reffed POS earns no income right now, no need for little sythons. I know exactly what will happen when 'goons unleash this on everybody else'. There'll be smaller fights on mining poses which won't have been pinged for days on end and will have a spontaneity to them which will be refreshing for the average F1 masher like myself. Reffing a pos requires a fairly heavy commitment of subcaps, I could drop/pick up/destroy a bunch of siphons with some newbros in a bunch of cruisers and hope there's a brawl with the locals as I do so. Sounds much more fun to my mind. You are assuming that griefing will include trying to harvest the goo rather than just ejecting it and trashing it using mainly afk cloaky bombers. There won't be fights .. just griefing to make the pos fuel costs more expensive than the successful ore harvest. My heart bleeds for you.
Pleased to see your education is proceeding at about the pace expected of you. It's all about how hot my mining lasers get. |

Sgt Ocker
State War Academy Caldari State
10
|
Posted - 2013.10.19 14:36:00 -
[1028] - Quote
I would suggest anyone with lowsec mining pos's and corp without the ability to have someone sitting there 24/7 to keep watch for siphons, start looking for a new way to make your isk. Yes this new mechanic has been thrown together in the hope of hurting the big players in moon mining and in the long term it may have some impact on them. In the short term many griefers are going to have tons of fun siphoning anything they can put a module on. Whether it pays or not will be irrelevant for many, as griefing is not about isk or profit, it is all about taking from others what they can when they can.
What pos siphons will do; Increase the cost of moon goo, which in turn will, increase the cost of all T2 ships and anything else relying on moon products to be built. The risks involved in pushing prices of everything up, not high enough compared to the overall impact it may have. This has got to be good for CCP as it won't take long before you will need a plex in hand to buy your next T2 cruiser.
What happens to the siphoned goo?? Unless you have a big siphoning operation (several hundred siphons and a JF) is it worth hauling to market, 1200m of moon goo is hardly worth running the gauntlet from nul to empire to sell it and of course while your running off to market with your siphoned goo, who is watching your siphons to make sure some random traveller doesn't find them and steal what your stealing?
|

Kropotkin
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
20
|
Posted - 2013.10.19 14:54:00 -
[1029] - Quote
mynnna wrote:Tzar Sinak wrote:I do not think I am understanding this correctly.
I go to the POS to deploy some siphons. I am within 50km of the POS shields. Will the POS guns not automatically target me and fire? Would I not have to figure out a way to tank the guns, not get webbed and neuted and still be able to get away? POS guns are crap and even small ones take several seconds to lock anything. Warp disruption batteries take a lot longer thanks to a low (36mm) scan res. On top of that there's a random delay before they start shooting. You'll have no problem flying in, dropping one and leaving, or flying in, looting one and leaving, before you're in any danger from the POS, even if it's manned. So one possible adjustment, if siphons prove to be Too Powerful, would be to make ships dropping or harvesting siphons Sit Perfectly Still for Long Enough? |

Zakhin Desver
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
4
|
Posted - 2013.10.19 15:02:00 -
[1030] - Quote
If you are so worried about syphons exploiting lowsec little alliances and players, simply ban them from lowsec like it happens with bubbles and bombs
Revolutionary idea
PS Well, in fact is a good damn idea |

Kropotkin
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
20
|
Posted - 2013.10.19 15:04:00 -
[1031] - Quote
Tiye Q wrote:Kismeteer wrote:MeBiatch wrote:this one mod is the single greatest anti-blue donut mechanic i have ever seen.
the fact that the large pos alliances are extreamly upset that they will actually have to monitor thier isk faucet makes me very happy. Sadly, we're also the ones that will benefit the most on the 'free isk' faucet of the increased cost of goo. And the reactions that will go up in price too. You'll just get higher t2 costs down the road. So sure, if you want to pay more for t2 stuff with no benefit, it's awesome for you. Not sure what I find more comical. The admission of a complaint in having to now monitor a passive source of income, or the fact that the CFC/GSF member also states they'll benefit financially, and yet somehow we're all supposed to believe that the CFC/GSF is raising the complaints and flaws in mechanics for the benefit of the greater good of EVE. Simply amazing. Whatever intellectual Kool-Aid you guys are serving to your rank and file, please make sure you patent the formula. Is clear enough: Goons are simply griefing here in the One True Universal Perpetual Meta-Game, Players vs Developers, in which Players try to have fun and Developers try to stop them. Goons use proposed changes -- especially poorly-thought-out changes -- to grief Developers. |

Zakhin Desver
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
4
|
Posted - 2013.10.19 15:06:00 -
[1032] - Quote
Well, in fact, banning them from lowsec will make lowsec the training ground for pos owners. If you are in nullsec, you should be able to help yourself. |

Falin Whalen
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
463
|
Posted - 2013.10.19 15:13:00 -
[1033] - Quote
Kropotkin wrote:Tiye Q wrote:Kismeteer wrote:MeBiatch wrote:this one mod is the single greatest anti-blue donut mechanic i have ever seen.
the fact that the large pos alliances are extreamly upset that they will actually have to monitor thier isk faucet makes me very happy. Sadly, we're also the ones that will benefit the most on the 'free isk' faucet of the increased cost of goo. And the reactions that will go up in price too. You'll just get higher t2 costs down the road. So sure, if you want to pay more for t2 stuff with no benefit, it's awesome for you. Not sure what I find more comical. The admission of a complaint in having to now monitor a passive source of income, or the fact that the CFC/GSF member also states they'll benefit financially, and yet somehow we're all supposed to believe that the CFC/GSF is raising the complaints and flaws in mechanics for the benefit of the greater good of EVE. Simply amazing. Whatever intellectual Kool-Aid you guys are serving to your rank and file, please make sure you patent the formula. Is clear enough: Goons are simply griefing here in the One True Universal Perpetual Meta-Game, Players vs Developers, in which Players try to have fun and Developers try to stop them. Goons use proposed changes -- especially poorly-thought-out changes -- to grief Developers.  We don't grief developers, we kindly and gently correct their misguided and idiotic gameplay development, with a two kilo sledgehammer upside the head that they so helpfully gave us. You've got to remember that these are just simple miners. These are people of the land. The common clay of New Eden. You know... morons. |

Zakhin Desver
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
4
|
Posted - 2013.10.19 15:15:00 -
[1034] - Quote
Falin Whalen wrote:Kropotkin wrote:Tiye Q wrote:Kismeteer wrote:MeBiatch wrote:this one mod is the single greatest anti-blue donut mechanic i have ever seen.
the fact that the large pos alliances are extreamly upset that they will actually have to monitor thier isk faucet makes me very happy. Sadly, we're also the ones that will benefit the most on the 'free isk' faucet of the increased cost of goo. And the reactions that will go up in price too. You'll just get higher t2 costs down the road. So sure, if you want to pay more for t2 stuff with no benefit, it's awesome for you. Not sure what I find more comical. The admission of a complaint in having to now monitor a passive source of income, or the fact that the CFC/GSF member also states they'll benefit financially, and yet somehow we're all supposed to believe that the CFC/GSF is raising the complaints and flaws in mechanics for the benefit of the greater good of EVE. Simply amazing. Whatever intellectual Kool-Aid you guys are serving to your rank and file, please make sure you patent the formula. Is clear enough: Goons are simply griefing here in the One True Universal Perpetual Meta-Game, Players vs Developers, in which Players try to have fun and Developers try to stop them. Goons use proposed changes -- especially poorly-thought-out changes -- to grief Developers.  We don't grief developers, we kindly and gently correct their misguided and idiotic gameplay development, with a two kilo sledgehammer upside the head that they so helpfully gave us.
In other words, you are telling developers how they should manage their own game. Amazing, one day Goons will be the CEOs of CCP |

Kropotkin
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
20
|
Posted - 2013.10.19 15:17:00 -
[1035] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:... The system itself could be neat when siphon costs aren't a rounding error, but the system is poorly balanced as it is because there's no cost to losing a siphon. ... I wonder: Are maybe CCP trying to be crazy like fox, set low initial price to stimulate initial deployment transient, then later jack price up?
But do CCP have control of price? I think yes: siphon is T1, so All They Have To Do Is Just jack up the minerals-needed-to-build, no? |

GeeShizzle MacCloud
369
|
Posted - 2013.10.19 15:19:00 -
[1036] - Quote
Marlona Sky wrote:Tippia wrote:CCP SoniClover wrote:Let me know what you think. I think I still want to know what the design goal behind making the API lie is. Because the information it would provide would render this wonderful addition to the game pointless. I guess why log into the game and play it when API program can play it for you right?...
yahh i heard API Programmes can log your applicable character in, get in the correct ship/POS gun, lock and fire on the siphon and then scoop the loot and return it to the pos (in the CHA or whatever). Not entirely sure what programmes u guys in NCdot are using, maybe the people in Team Security needs to review your subscriptions.
Marlona Sky wrote:CCP SoniClover wrote:Hey guys, thanks for all the good feedback. Couple of things we're contemplating:
a) reduce waste factor from 20% to 10%
b) have a character limit on how many siphons you can deploy (i.e. have in space at the same time). This would probably be in the 5 to 10 range.
Let me know what you think. Can you add a limit on the number of POS you can maintain too?...  .
yahh cause u know... everyone has personal pos's currently dont they? ohh wait no they dont, all pos's are anchored and onlined for their entire corp (whether you're in a 1 man corp or not) |

Sgt Ocker
State War Academy Caldari State
10
|
Posted - 2013.10.19 15:23:00 -
[1037] - Quote
Kropotkin wrote:mynnna wrote:Tzar Sinak wrote:I do not think I am understanding this correctly.
I go to the POS to deploy some siphons. I am within 50km of the POS shields. Will the POS guns not automatically target me and fire? Would I not have to figure out a way to tank the guns, not get webbed and neuted and still be able to get away? POS guns are crap and even small ones take several seconds to lock anything. Warp disruption batteries take a lot longer thanks to a low (36mm) scan res. On top of that there's a random delay before they start shooting. You'll have no problem flying in, dropping one and leaving, or flying in, looting one and leaving, before you're in any danger from the POS, even if it's manned. So one possible adjustment, if siphons prove to be Too Powerful, would be to make ships dropping or harvesting siphons Sit Perfectly Still for Long Enough? Pos siphons have no anchoring or onlining time. You fly to 50k of the pos, launch siphon and warp off, the siphon then automatically starts its cycle time and begins to fill. At the given time you warp back to your bookmarked siphon, empty it and warp off. As stated, even with a pos gunner present you are only at risk if you hang around too long as lock times for pos modules are just too slow to be of value. But if there is a pos gunner present there is a good chance your siphon has been destroyed so emptying it is not a problem.
|

Zakhin Desver
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
4
|
Posted - 2013.10.19 15:31:00 -
[1038] - Quote
GeeShizzle MacCloud wrote:ahh cause u know... everyone has personal pos's currently dont they? ohh wait no they dont, all pos's are anchored and onlined for their entire corp (whether you're in a 1 man corp or not)
Syphons are available to whoever passes by. The syphon is not really yours either. |

Harry Forever
SpaceJunkys
840
|
Posted - 2013.10.19 15:37:00 -
[1039] - Quote
Falin Whalen wrote:Harry Forever wrote:Aryth wrote:Yeah, the cost isn't balanced at all. These things will pay for itself (including waste) in the time a regular tower owner sleeps. It is one thing if a tower owner can reasonably find it in the time that it might equate to a loss for the placer greater than the profit gained. It is quite another if you can just mass spray them cross entire portions of EVE and be virtually assured of payback.
The cost should not be balanced at a few hours and probably should be set at at least 12-18 hours. Is that really reasonable to require every tower owner to check their tower 3 times a day? This is exactly why skill queues were implemented and that was far less of a burden.
Balance the cost much higher. 10m that gets returned in just 2-5 hours is silly and not remotely balanced and is only going to mean mass spraying across EVE and end up as spam more than interaction.
nice those bitter goon tears, please go on... Ah Harry Forever, confusing our tears of mirth with bitter tears. CCP is going to hand everyone the greatist griefing tool EVE has seen since remote doomsdays, and he thinks we are crying bitter tears. Seriously it's like we are Cassandra, blessed with the power of prophecy, yet cursed with no one believing our prophecy.
yea use it on your own POS, lol... you never leave your systems everybody knows that
all you guys do is crying, crying about your stolen moon goo, crying about the somer blink stuff, crying about your cynos, man you are a bunch of babies... boohoo... ... |

gascanu
Bearing Srl.
35
|
Posted - 2013.10.19 15:39:00 -
[1040] - Quote
Quote:CCP SoniClover wrote:
Let me know what you think.
I think it should be better if this version of siphon will be limited at "siphoning" from moon miners only, for the start at least; leave reactions for version 2  if there are more that one moon miner on a pos it should steal alternately from each of them;
also limiting 5/player is way too low, more like 20 should be the limit if you really think we should have one |

Omega Flames
Forever Winter The Kingdom of Heaven
60
|
Posted - 2013.10.19 15:41:00 -
[1041] - Quote
Zakhin Desver wrote:If you are so worried about syphons exploiting lowsec little alliances and players, simply ban them from lowsec like it happens with bubbles and bombs
Revolutionary idea
PS Well, in fact is a good damn idea except ccp hs no intention of limiting them to just null sec nor frankly the player feedback either cause afaik they did not run this by the CSM either before they just up and did this. Low sec is the bastard child of ccp and they enjoy ******* with anyone who tries to operate in it. <Munnkeh> i'm gonna use that excuse if i ever kill someone. "look, if you keep meeting ppl, it's bound to happen eventually" http://i.imgur.com/76pQ9.jpg |

Falin Whalen
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
463
|
Posted - 2013.10.19 15:42:00 -
[1042] - Quote
Zakhin Desver wrote:Falin Whalen wrote:We don't grief developers, we kindly and gently correct their misguided and idiotic gameplay development, with a two kilo sledgehammer upside the head that they so helpfully gave us. In other words, you are telling developers how they should manage their own game. Amazing, one day Goons will be the CEOs of CCP No, you have it wrong, We tell developers that some of the ideas that they have are hugely exploitable by those who have figured out the mechanics behind them. If they don't head our words and implement it anyway...well we have no choice but to exploit the hell out of the new feature to our advantage. Untill CCP gets wise and patches out the imbalanced, broken, mechanic to be more ballanced and less broken.
See, by being utter rat bastards, and exploiting/taking advantage of broken mechanics/features, we make the game more ballanced and less exploitable by all.
You are welcome. You've got to remember that these are just simple miners. These are people of the land. The common clay of New Eden. You know... morons. |

MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1401
|
Posted - 2013.10.19 16:00:00 -
[1043] - Quote
Zakhin Desver wrote:Well, in fact, banning them from lowsec will make lowsec the training ground for pos owners. If you are in nullsec, you should be able to help yourself.
right and all those high value moons in low sec should then go to null right? There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Winter Expansion new ship request |

Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4878
|
Posted - 2013.10.19 16:09:00 -
[1044] - Quote
Kropotkin wrote:Tiye Q wrote:Kismeteer wrote:MeBiatch wrote:this one mod is the single greatest anti-blue donut mechanic i have ever seen.
the fact that the large pos alliances are extreamly upset that they will actually have to monitor thier isk faucet makes me very happy. Sadly, we're also the ones that will benefit the most on the 'free isk' faucet of the increased cost of goo. And the reactions that will go up in price too. You'll just get higher t2 costs down the road. So sure, if you want to pay more for t2 stuff with no benefit, it's awesome for you. Not sure what I find more comical. The admission of a complaint in having to now monitor a passive source of income, or the fact that the CFC/GSF member also states they'll benefit financially, and yet somehow we're all supposed to believe that the CFC/GSF is raising the complaints and flaws in mechanics for the benefit of the greater good of EVE. Simply amazing. Whatever intellectual Kool-Aid you guys are serving to your rank and file, please make sure you patent the formula. Is clear enough: Goons are simply griefing here in the One True Universal Perpetual Meta-Game, Players vs Developers, in which Players try to have fun and Developers try to stop them. Goons use proposed changes -- especially poorly-thought-out changes -- to grief Developers.  You have to leave the matrix and gank the architect of the whole system
Or, just make money for them and get special scorpions.... There are no goons. The goons' 0.0 dream is over.
"Progodlegend said the goal of N3 is to destroy Goonswarm Federation, but in reality NCdot is in Fountain due to the fact it is virtually the last place there is action." ~NC., Fountain 2013 |

Gypsio III
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
916
|
Posted - 2013.10.19 16:17:00 -
[1045] - Quote
10 mill is too expensive for these siphons. The ones planted at valuable moons will just get blown up, while the ones planted at worthless moons won't run a profit, because it'll never be worth a pilot's time taking what they siphon.
They need to be cheaper to see significant use. |

Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4878
|
Posted - 2013.10.19 16:19:00 -
[1046] - Quote
Gypsio III wrote:10 mill is too expensive for these siphons. The ones planted at valuable moons will just get blown up, while the ones planted at worthless moons won't run a profit, because it'll never be worth a pilot's time taking what they siphon.
They need to be cheaper to see significant use. I agree. If anything drop it down significantly and then raise if it is overused
(It won't be overpowered, i promise, only goons will cry more) There are no goons. The goons' 0.0 dream is over.
"Progodlegend said the goal of N3 is to destroy Goonswarm Federation, but in reality NCdot is in Fountain due to the fact it is virtually the last place there is action." ~NC., Fountain 2013 |

Sentamon
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1153
|
Posted - 2013.10.19 16:24:00 -
[1047] - Quote
Is this were I park my freighters to collect tears from the boring nullbears? ~ Professional Forum Alt -á~ |

Gospadin
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
101
|
Posted - 2013.10.19 16:51:00 -
[1048] - Quote
Jeanne Hilanen wrote:Weaselior wrote:Rakshasa Taisab wrote: With so many thousands of people, don't you have people flying through the space in which you have POS'es?
Oh... right...
Yes. We do. Those thousands of people are never on grid with a mining pos because they have no reason to be. That's my point. Those thousands of people, using our space, do not actually provide any meaningful advantage over an alt left logged out in the tower. What a bunch of bullshit. it takes less than a minute to dscan check a system. If you have people actually LIVING in a system, you can very quickly spot these
+1
Seriously, if an alliance of hundreds or thousands of players can't be bothered to put 1 alliance character in each system they own once every 3-4 hours, you deserve to lose the goo.
It takes seconds to scan and move on (especially with the warp changes), and you only have to get within 14AU to know if they're there.
A single char could check an entire region's moons in under 30 minutes. |

gascanu
Bearing Srl.
35
|
Posted - 2013.10.19 17:02:00 -
[1049] - Quote
Gospadin wrote:
Seriously, if an alliance of hundreds or thousands of players can't be bothered to put 1 alliance character in each system they own once every 3-4 hours, you deserve to lose the goo.
It takes seconds to scan and move on (especially with the warp changes), and you only have to get within 14AU to know if they're there.
A single char could check an entire region's moons in under 30 minutes.
"but... but... but we wanna pevepee...."  |

EI Digin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
1272
|
Posted - 2013.10.19 17:03:00 -
[1050] - Quote
Gospadin wrote: Seriously, if an alliance of hundreds or thousands of players can't be bothered to put 1 alliance character in each system they own once every 3-4 hours, you deserve to lose the goo.
It takes seconds to scan and move on (especially with the warp changes), and you only have to get within 14AU to know if they're there.
A single char could check an entire region's moons in under 30 minutes.
So what about a smaller tz-centric alliance that holds moons in low/npc null?
Why should the bar be raised to 24/7 coverage of moons? Why do you want them to recruit more people in order to be successful? |
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